Well, you should know, we suppose
…having just spent the last three years in bed with them.
Zounds, the irony.
We’re also, we must say, enjoying the Record’s “anyone but the Tories” election banner. Given that the newspaper runs more or less daily entreaties to its readers not to vote for the SNP, and presumably also opposes the Tories’ coalition allies, that only really leaves one party that fits the criteria.
The Record also didn’t, as far as we know, ever actually at any point grab hold of its plums and openly advocate a No vote in the independence referendum. It’s a curious kind of cowardice to make your position absolutely crystal clear but then not have the courage to just come out and say it, imagining that the “deniability” of not putting the words explicitly in print will somehow fool anybody.
The belief that the people of Scotland are a bunch of gullible, simple-witted morons runs deep in Scottish Labour, and that means it runs deep in the Daily Record too. We wonder which, if either, of them will wake up first.
The day irony died. RIP.
The big issue, presumably, is the fragile position of the SNP (rather than, for example, SLab)…
I remember as a naive schoolgirl catching the train to school on the morning of a general election (probably some time in the 1960s) and being shocked by the front page of the Record which was visible all around me in multiple copies.
WHY IT
MUST BE
LABOUR X
That was it. These words took up the whole of the front page apart from the masthead. I thought, goodness how come they’re allowed to be so one-sided as that. Gosh I must have been young.
They weren’t pussy-footing around though.
Would Jim Murphy now join the ranks of The Black Douglas, Mac an T sronaich & The bogeyman as arch frighteners for us genetically unmodified plebs?
Has Jim conceded defeat with 45 days (how apt) to go? Is he now saying he is expecting a sizeable contingent of SNP MPs, enough to vote with the Tories and defeat Labour then. Tell you what Jim we won’t if you don’t! What he doesn’t understand is that we don’t care, Labour means less than nothing to us and Red or Blue Tories, it’s all austerity to us. This is for real Jim, it’s not a wee sulk because of the no vote and then everything will go back to normal, this is forever now. You wanted us, you got us, now suck it up.
The funniest thing about all of this is they think we’ll forget what Labour have done over the last three years (and before). They laid with the Tories and now they’ve got Tory fleas. It’s no surprise to anyone other than the Daily Record and Labour that Labour are now being viewed as being toxic in the same way that the Tories are.
forgive if I have read this wrong, but has Murphy conceded defeat?
That headline speaks for itself. Labour destroyed.
Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon are the best political thinkers of this generation. They can see independence a mile down the road … and they know exactly how they are going to get us there.
http://www.commentisntfree.com/a-mile-down-the-road/
I just finished reading Iain Macwhirter’s short book on the referendum, and he says in it that the Record used to be a Labour donor. You would not know by their coverage that they are not anymore. That headline really does tell you everything you need to know about both Murphy and SLAB in general, and the Daily Record. Completely lacking in irony and self awareness. Murphy really is an incredibly shallow and deceitful politician and person.
When Labour go into coalition with the Tories the Record will be filled with exploding crania.
This will be the start of the ‘SNP brought us Thatcher’ story but we have the info now courtesy of the Rev and I will be retweeting it from now until May 7th.
Well, looks as if they’ve given up.
I think I must be inhabiting another planet. I find all of this totally surreal.
Well done Jimbo, I always knew that you were never going to be the answer to Labours prayer. Now it would appear that you have raised the white flag.
Sheesh already.
David Agnew says: “forgive if I have read this wrong, but has Murphy conceded defeat?”
Answer: YES
Yes I know, I know.
Bought the Daily Record for many years starting in the mid 70’s when leaving school and getting a job in the shipyard.
Let’s face it, you couldn’t possibly buy the Sun. I had no issue then with the Record, gave me all the news I wanted, supported Labour and at least back then in my view was a decent paper for a working class youngster to cut his teeth on.
Oh dear, what happened? Well, New Labour happened and it has been downhill in it’s politics coverage ever since.
Nowadays the Daily Record is only a shadow of its former self, this is proven in the weekly sales.
Once they stopped allowing comment on their political pieces it showed that they were ignoring their readership, that they continue to do so can only bring about their demise sooner than even they think.
Mugs! Who refuse to put down the shovel.
Should have added as far as I’m concerned the people who are trying to destroy Scotland, is Labour.
WOW!
Anyone think that with that banner “anyone but the Tories” we could be seeing the first step towards the Record coming out with a headline on May 8th similar to the Sun’s (in)famous “it woz the Sun wot won it” 😉
Murphy and the Record are both concerned with holding on to what remains of the Labour vote,or atleast to slow down the exodus.Theyre trying to hang on to a core of mostly elderly voters.No future in that.
Erm, is the production costs of the Daily Record included in Slab’s long/short campaign expenses? Just asking? :#
First Project Fear 2 salvo at undecideds. Oh so cunning. Creepy Murphy said it to Andrew Neil this morn, if Cameron gets back in, it means havoc in Scotland and it’ll all be down to the SNP, so…
The News of the World, at least, went out with a wee bit of chutzpah.
Discredited that paper might have been, but, it went out with a swagger and two fingers to its enemies.
The Record will probably go out with a plaintive: “Vee vere only obeying orders”.
They will never forgive, far less understand the voters of Scotland turning their backs on Labour.
Vote Labour, get nuttin’
Jiggers!
Oi knows moi place, Oi does.
😉
Do you think Murphy has phoned Milliband and cleared this public acceptance of defeat with him?
Wait, I get it! Since Murphy says “the party with the most seats forms the government” he accepts what the polls suggest and that Cameron is probably home and dry 😉
Record cheerleading for Labour, and Labour all but giving up. Crossed wires there too.
Vote SNP, get some clarity!
I had no idea Jim cared about the SNP’s survival so much that he’s willing to dish out advice.
Maybe explains why he’s done such an awful job with Labour – and there was me thinking he was just crap. No, he just doesn’t want the SNP to be destroyed…
People talk about the possibility of a Labour/Tory coalition, but honestly, it seems a complete impossibility to me. How would they even start talking about that one? How would it come about? I can’t get my brain round it.
(I’d be dancing in the street if it happened.)
I have already made 2 formal written complaints today on the 1979 11MPs nonsense.
Got to go to bed
Somebody else will Have to do the Record
Must av done almost every political journalist by now on that and ‘the ‘largest party’
Used to do one or two a week, now almost daily
Onwards and upwards
Suggestion for possible billboard (the letters would span-out nicely on the real thing…):
JIM MURPHY
IS A LIAR*
source: http://wingsoverscotland.com/jim-murphy-is-a-liar/
When Murphy brings up 1979 we should reply “1979 the year when labour cheated Scotland out of a parliament “
Jim Murphy is a total “Carreerist Labour Politican” allowed to say all the pre-rehearsed soundbites on behalf of the Westminster Estabishment on The B.B.C. and Scotlands M.S.M where else!! He said today after interrogation from Andrew Neil on The Sunday Politics Show “He would let his constituents know first whether he would hope to be elected for only 1 year as an M.P. and thereafter resign to be able to run for The Scottish Parliament in 2016 as a Potential Scottish First Minister”. I and my fellow Constituents have heard NOTHING from this fraud on his intentions with only weeks to go? Jim Murphy is a complete and Utter Sham!! Lets get this man his P45 in May!!
*sigh* They just can’t seem to grasp these headlines make little difference to those who now see Westminster as three colours of Tory – Blue, Red, Yellow. All back austerity, nuclear weapon spending, social injustice and umpteen other things many Scots no longer want or can identify with. Red Tory, Blue Tory… Oh such choices my dear Daily Ridicule.
Only one vote will bring change, and pish headlines like that ain’t changing my mind anytime this century.
The Record has basically reached the stage that the Mail does for embarrassing those people who read it.
If you want to watch a tory squirm just ask them if they believe what they read in the Daily Mail. Likewise the same thing now applies to the red tories when you ask them if they actually believe what’s written in the Record.
It’s a tabloid joke with a plummeting readership who’s main purpose seems to be to employ a few unelectable Labour spinners to spit hatred and lies at the roughly 50% of the scottish public who plan to vote SNP.
Sorry, half asleep, previous comment ment for diffrent article.
On this one… yeah I agree it sounds very like an admission of defeat. hehehe.
DimJims lights ur running on solar power & the sunlight wont reach the bottom of that hole he,s been digging.
This is going on my FB page tomorrow.
The Murphy Myth.
An increasingly desperate Murphy is organising a march to commemorate the SNP ‘letting in the Tories’ in 1979.
Here is what the then Labour PM said of his Labour back benchers.
“the difficulty within the (Labour) Party, was much greater than any from the Scottish National Party, and the Whip’s judgement was that the government could not rely on the votes of Labour members from the north if we moved to reject the Repeal Order……… we could lose the vote.”
Jim Callaghan in his autobiography ‘Time and Chance’
I know I could probably google it for the details but I’d much rather trust the more educated here.
Is this what happened in 1979, 11 SNP MPs voted a no confidence vote against the Labour govt, along with hundreds of Tories and 34 LABOUR MPs forcing a GE ? If so how is it our fault if 34 of their own voted against their own party? Or was it not as simple as that.
The 34 Labour MPs voted for the Cunningham amendment which introduced the 40% threshold in the Assembly referendum.
When your best tactic’s are,insulting the mother,monstering the father,scaring the children.
Your on a loser.
See ya,wouldn’t wannabe be ya.
Conflation of the SNP with the tories is a bit late in the game when Conflation of the Tories & the Labour party were all to evident during the referendum campaign.
crazycat says:
The 34 Labour MPs voted for the Cunningham amendment which introduced the 40% threshold in the Assembly referendum.
I read on Twitter today that there were 11, I think, Liberals who also voted with the Tories. Funny how no one ever remembers them. 😛
Like Michael Keaton’s character in ‘Birdman,’ Alex Salmond is back!
http://wp.me/p4fd9j-16p
A review of Salmond’s book ‘Westminster, My Part in its Downfall.’
They’ve given up. The battle now is for English and Welsh votes. The “Mr Salmond goes to Westminster ” video will be to frighten the English voters. I hope the Greens and Plaid Cymry do well.
@ Lesley-Anne
I think some people may be confusing the Labour MPs whose voting behaviour led to the repeal of the devolution bill with MPs from various parties who voted against the Government in the confidence vote later.
All Labour MPs (except one who died a few days later, poor chap, and had been offering to attend on a stretcher until excused) voted with the Government; all Liberals (who had indicated willingness to vote down the Government after the end of the Lib-Lab Pact in 1978) voted with the Tories. There were 13 of them, so they made a larger contribution to Callaghan’s defeat than the SNP.
Everybody seems to be missing one important point with Jim being the most keen to do so and it’s not a particularly happy one.
We got A Conservative Government in 1979 because the electorate voted Conservative… and then they did it again having already found out what it meant!
erm the SNP have said they won’t vote with the Tories
Is the ‘support Labour vote Tory’ to stop the SNP still going?
I may have missed something but I think Jim Murphy’s next speech will be about Vladimir Putin sending space monsters to Edinburgh Castle if anybody votes SNP
Not only Jim Callaghan. In his autobiography: “The Time of My Life” Denis Healey says: ” Our attempts to achieve devolution also foundered, again because opponents on our own benches combined with the Tories to defeat it.”
So, even back then Labour were in colusion with the Tories. Nothing new then?
to clarify, not the nice space monsters but the ones that will take away Scottish MPs from Westminister
I don’t think they need much help
“O wad some pow’r the giftie ghie us,
Tae see oorsel’s as others see us…”
Hugo Rifkind, The Spectator (himself a Tory) commenting on the attitude of English Tories to Scotland’s place in the Union:-
“They don’t want a partner, these people, but a pet.”
“They’ve given up.”
No point in getting complacent.
Labour will go on spouting their big lie, knowing they just need a 5% rise to hold on to many Scottish seats.
Murphy is still thinking that enough Scots will bottle it at the last minute.
If the SNP does end up in the ideal situation – holding the balance of power – then it is Labour that will be destroyed in Scotland if they choose to let the Tories back in.
Labour could try to run a minority government, but the SNP only needs to abstain on votes to make it ineffective – no need to vote with the Tories.
Labour could try to run a minority government, but the SNP only needs to abstain on votes to make it ineffective – no need to vote with the Tories.
Interesting point I had not considered.
The SNP have surrendered to those who consider the West Lothian Question is real and important: and so have mostly abstained on votes which only affect rUK. More recently Ms Sturgeon has said they will vote on issues which have consequential effects for Scotland, from which I infer that they will continue to abstain on votes which have no such implications
In that case, if the polls are correct, a prospective labour minority government cannot work, can it? It can get through legislation which affects Scotland, if the SNP consider that legislation to be, at worst, neutral for this country. But it cannot get through legislation which does not affect Scotland unless the tories vote with them. Am I misunderstanding this?
However many MPs the SNP has after May,they will always vote in Scotlands best interests.
Not sure if that was directed to me Mealer. If it was I do not see how it helps to answer my question. Can you elaborate?
Britain must have a nuclear deterrent…
How do we actually know it’s there? anybody seen one? who checks it? and if it is there how come the Great Britainers did’nt take any meaningful action when a Russian Submarine came up the Clyde for a wee cruise
Why does nobody ask the great leaders of the Union Army in what circumstances would they seek the Americans permission to use nuclear weapons
Thing is me as a wee tax payer, and, given that it’s just a few miles from my house i’d like to have a wee look at what i’m renting from the Yanks, it seems only fair
If i go into Aldi’s for my shopping i pay for it and take it home, so why can i not at least have a wee look at my share of a Trident (I have my own bag)
I’m very glad that many more folk since the Referendum have at last cottened on to what’s true now and come to see what a lot of us have known for some time
I’m just a bit saddened though that the State Broadcaster hasn’t wised up to the situation because it occurs to me that if they did they might have been allowed to stay as a broadcaster instead of facing extinction which i believe the people of Scotland will demand (Jackie Bird probably excluded from that of course)
To sum up though i just would like a wee look at even just a wee bit of plutonium or uranium or indeed any kind of UM
just to satisfy myself that for years i “Huvny been had”
and there’s nuthin there
Tony Blair could have them in his garden shed for all i know
Just a wee thought……
Right, so let me get this straight. Labour is warning the SNP it could be destroyed in Scotland? Am I reading that right? Cos I think I must be losing my mind.
Someone is. I suspect it just might be the Daily Record. Although I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see Jim Murphy being chased down Sauchiehall Street by men in white coats with giant butterfly nets. Any day now…
If the SNP were to vote with the red or the blue tories in support of legislation which betrays their manifesto positions, eg on austerity, then I think he is right it would destroy them in Scotland. As the Rev says, he should know.
It’s all a conspiracy eh Douglas….
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201415/cmselect/cmpubadm/111/111.pdf
You just can’t understand the depth of this man someone who stands for nothing and falls for everything. A rag who is dying each day in a slow and painful way, I’m hoping someone just hits the STOP button on the printer one day. What a day to rejoice….
Fiona,
My previous post was more of a general statement and was written before I’d read your post.The way I see it,SNP MPs must always do what’s best for Scotland on every vote.Whether there’s six or fifty six of them.They mustn’t vote against Scotlands interests to prop up any government.
Jim Murphy clearly thinks irony is like goldy and bronzey, but a different colour.
Either that or he thinks we’re all eejits. Now that is ironic.
The Unionist way has always been threat, intimidation, deception, then force
Thing is you can win a fight like that but you can’t fight an idea with it
Beating someone down, only beats them down, because when they’re down that doesn’t change their thinking it only reinforces the fact that you’re a bully
Scotland has found it’s courage now and the old tactics used by Britain to subjugate it’s so called territories has weakened here
Scotland is a country that can thrive on co-operation with others
For those who desire to increase their wealth off the backs of others maybe another way is best for them
Scotland for me should aspire to increase it’s wealth in education freedom and fairness and inevitably the respect of other nations will follow
To our relatives and cousins in England don’t fear us
We choose Scotlands National Party for the advancement of our country not the intimidation of yours
The British media would have you believe for their own political purposes that the sky is about to fall in
we have lived with this kind of media for a long time and found them out as the liars they are
We the people of Scotland are not your enemies
Diane @ 10.30 pm , excellent post .
Fiona & Mealer .
I agree as you say SNP MPs will always decide and vote as they see fit to Scotland’s advantage .
My annoyance per previous posts today is the other Scottish MPs have not always voted in Scotland’s interest , more in line with the whip .
Regarding Labour support .
It would be tricky for SNP to hold their current position of only voting on matters which has consequential effect on Scotland if they are , even on a case by case , supporting Lab Gvt .
We all accept they have a right , and some could argue , a duty to Vote on everything . All 650 MPS should be there for every Vote , that’s what they are paid to do .
Park that thought .
Depending on numbers , Labour may need SNP support for most policies but SNP will hopefully coerce Labour policy towards SNP view other wise SNP just say NAW , hey ho , they wanted us to say NAw for the last 2 years .
Fiona , I suspect Plan C is to do their duty and attend every vote like every other MP
If Anna SOURbry and her like pips as much as a squeak , it will only rattle the natives and maybe there may be truth in the fact that Hadrians wall was Nae big enough , to keep us in !
The phrase ” You pleaded with us to stay in the UK ……. ” maybe heard echoing round HOC soon
Exciting times indeed.
A wee PS Thanks to the Rev and all the posters today , great fun & laughs.
I know it is very early and I have not fully awakened but I just haven’t a Scooby what that headline means.
Ah, maybe it is a metaphor for the Labour party.
Scratches ear and goes back to sleep thinking this is just a bizarre dream.
It is a dream ?
Mr Murphy moving with all the grace of a sick duck between lying to the electorate on telly and lying to them in print.
Labour actions and Labour votes brought down Labour in 79 as has been proven beyond any doubt at this point. A discredited title, promoting a discredited party, lead by a discredited local branch manager.
At least they are consistent.
The Tories are causing havoc in Scotland thanks to Labour/Unionists who voted NO, and destroyed their own Party, along with the Daily Record. What do they not understand. The majority of people in Scotland want fiscal autonomy/Independence. No wonder.
They just make people more annoyed and angry.
Jim Murphy, Johann Lamont, Alistair Darling, Willie Rennie – all of them are living proof that if you vote with the tories you end up destroyed in Scotland.
As a minor refinement to the above, it should be noted that Jim Murphy is a tory.
The only thing keeping the Tories out is the SNP.
The SNP are protecting Education/NHS, social care, bus passes, mitigating the ‘bedroom tax’ and welfare cuts. The SNP will campaign to get rid of Trident, stop sanctioning and starving the vulnerable and protect the Scottish budget. The consumption of alcohol has gone down and so has crime under SNP Governance.
All the Unionist Parties do is lie. Westminster gets away with murder. Unionist secrecy and lies protected by unelected civil servants and the Official Secrets Act.
muttley 79 about half ten last night
‘Murphy really is an incredibly shallow and deceitful politician and person.’
To date, of all the epitaphs, I’ve never read such a helpful, simple and succinct take on the nature of this person: shallow and deceitful, indeed. He’s toast and he knows it.
Daily Record:
“Miliband is due to arrive in Scotland tomorrow when he will address party activists in a speech in Clydebank.”
I hope Miliband has better luck in Clydebank than Anas Sarwar had the last time he was there.
“Anas Sarwar silenced as Clydebank debate descends into chaos.”
http://www.journal-online.co.uk/article/11013-anas_sarwar_silenced_clydebank_debate_descends_into_chaos
In the Little Britain of Politics..Labour are Vicki Pollard.
“Yes but No but…”
Wingsovertopicalcomedyreferences.com
Murphy is in Scotland to do what Ed Milliband/John McTernan tells him.
Jim Murphy is little more than a Westminster monkey
performing atop the organ where sits his master.
The monkey appeals to the elderly.
After GE15, Murphy will return to London,
with or without a seat in the Commons.
Murphy and the daily record, remind me of two old Indians
looking over the empty plains , waiting for the buffalo to return
I see the National getting torn in about the MacPherson issue. It appears even the cross party Public Administration Select Committee has found that Mr MacPherson and his chums in the treasury ‘crossed the line’ during the referendum.
A bit f******g late now.
Of course it was heavily suspected by the YES movement during the referendum. The colour of the information released by the treasury, the timings etc. It stank to high heaven and we literally screamed as much at the time. The real shame is that there were those who knew, who were fully aware within Better Together and were quite happy to promote this coloured information to their own people. Just grim on so many levels.
They couldn’t win this debate on positivity of past history or future vision. They relied on the machinery of big government to crush people’s will by painting the bleakest picture possible. They relied on big business to back their play and they relied on those utter ******s in the media to act as their delivery system.
I wish these pricks in suits had a conscience, just so they could suffer any time they looked in a mirror. Sadly however, I doubt that any of them do.
To those who voted no as a result of this manipulation? We can still do this, but we need your help. The next step is up to you.
Regarding the HS2/3 railway projects, why is it laughed at by English MPs and English media, when Alex Salmond suggests that the line could be started in Scotland?
IF, as we are told, we are all equal parts of this United Kingdom, then why can’t the HS2 rail link be started in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff and London AT THE SAME TIME? The tracks could also be getting laid in areas throughout the UK, where the line will be coming through.
A true UK wide building project.
Why are the Alex Salmond proposals so outrageously funny to a lot of our English Establishment friends?
Surely the ridd Tories he means?
Don’t miss them in your leaflets.
List of the 28 Scottish Labour MPs voting with the Tory government for another £30 billion worth of cuts on 13 January 2015 which will remove another £2550 million from the Scottish government’s budget, yet they complain about NHS and education cuts in Scotland.
Douglas Alexander Paisley and Renfrewshire North
Willie Bain Glasgow North East
Gordon Banks Ochil and South Perthshire
Anne Begg Aberdeen South
Russell Brown Dumfries and Galloway
Michael Connarty Linlithgow and East Falkirk
Margaret Curran Glasgow East
Iain Davidson Glasgow South West
Thomas Docherty Dunfermline and West Fife
Brian Donohoe Central Ayshire
Frank Doran Aberdeen North
Gemma Doyle West Dunbartonshire
Tom Greatrex Rutherglen and Hamilton West
David Hamilton Midlothian
Tom Harris Glasgow South
Jimmy Hood Lanark and Hamilton East
Cathy Jamieson Kilmarnock and Loudoun
Iain MacKenzie Inverclyde
Michael McCann East Kilbride , Stathaven and Lesmahagow
Gregg McClymont Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch
Anne McGuire Stirling
Graham Morrice Livingston
IAN MURRAY EDINBURGH SOUTH
Pamela Nash Airdrie and Shotts
Fiona O’Donnell East Lothian
John Robertson Glasgow North West
Frank Roy Motherwell and Wishaw
Anas Sarwar Glasgow Central
http://www.snp.org/?q=media-centre/news/2015/jan/scottish-labour-mps-vote-back-tory-cuts
List of the 28 Scottish Labour MPs voting with the Tory government for another £30 billion worth of cuts on 13 January 2015 which will remove another £2550 million from the Scottish government’s budget, yet they complain about NHS and education cuts in Scotland.
Douglas Alexander Paisley and Renfrewshire North
Willie Bain Glasgow North East
Gordon Banks Ochil and South Perthshire
Anne Begg Aberdeen South
Russell Brown Dumfries and Galloway
Michael Connarty Linlithgow and East Falkirk
Margaret Curran Glasgow East
Iain Davidson Glasgow South West
Thomas Docherty Dunfermline and West Fife
Brian Donohoe Central Ayshire
Frank Doran Aberdeen North
Gemma Doyle West Dunbartonshire
Tom Greatrex Rutherglen and Hamilton West
David Hamilton Midlothian
Tom Harris Glasgow South
Jimmy Hood Lanark and Hamilton East
Cathy Jamieson Kilmarnock and Loudoun
Iain MacKenzie Inverclyde
Michael McCann East Kilbride , Stathaven and Lesmahagow
Gregg McClymont Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch
Anne McGuire Stirling
Graham Morrice Livingston
IAN MURRAY EDINBURGH SOUTH
Pamela Nash Airdrie and Shotts
Fiona O’Donnell East Lothian
John Robertson Glasgow North West
Frank Roy Motherwell and Wishaw
Anas Sarwar Glasgow Central
http://www.snp.org/?q=media-centre/news/2015/jan/scottish-labour-mps-vote-back-tory-cuts
Lee Kuan Yew on the press :
” He justified his actions by claiming that the newspapers were being financed by hostile interests abroad. “
The Record article is wrong in fact. It was not an SNP no confidence motion which toppled the 1979 Labour government. It was a Tory one backed by the Liberals who had been in a Lib/Lab pact.
caz-m says:
23 March, 2015 at 8:29 am
Regarding the HS2/3 railway projects, why is it laughed at by English MPs and English media, when Alex Salmond suggests that the line could be started in Scotland?
IF, as we are told, we are all equal parts of this United Kingdom, then why can’t the HS2 rail link be started in Edinburgh, Glasgow, Cardiff and London AT THE SAME TIME? The tracks could also be getting laid in areas throughout the UK, where the line will be coming through.
A true UK wide building project.
Why are the Alex Salmond proposals so outrageously funny to a lot of our English Establishment friends?
This is the way that the railways were built in the Victorian age. Indeed, the lines were let in sections in order to minimise the building time. It is only in recent years that there has been an obsession in rail (and road) contracts of starting at one end, and moving in a linear fashion to the other. Madness.
Scottish Labour must have forgotten Mr Murphy’s sage advice when going into coalition with the Tory’s in Stirling to defeat “the biggest party” (aka SNP). Or maybe he’s right; and Scottish Labour in Stirling will soon be finished…
O/T, sorry folks
But we need to help rid EK of the current MP, a certain and infamous, Mr McCann
http://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/DrLisaCameronSNP
O/T
Bought my copy of Alex book on Friday.
Man behind counter looked at book and said:
Seems to very popular that book think we will sell out of it at the weekend.
Took all my resolve not to say something left the shop with a big grin on my face:-)
Thanks for the review Grouse Beater i am have way through it at the moment cracking read.:-)
Love the Greg Moodie cartoon in the National this morning. Especially the last pane where where Cameron has Glegg on his back and Rennie on Glegg’s back.
Meanwhile hysteria is rife 🙂
https://archive.today/8Tm1U
Must be very doubtful HS2/3 will EVER reach Scottish soil now. Build those rebellious scots a rail line? Nae danger.
Oh, and the msm onslaught continues. The NHS is shite apparently. They misdiagnose all the time now. Subtext is to freighten folks…… Again!. Outrageous.
1979 remembered: there were a host of issues which would bring down the Labour government, not least of which was the Winter of Discontent resulting from a LABOUR government reneging on a promise to the trades unions movement to reintroduce ‘free collective bargaining’, free collective bargaining was replaced in Labour’s constitution earlier in the Parliament by a ‘social contract’ which downplayed workers rights.
MarkAustin 8.54am
RE: HS2
I also think this is the way Nicola Sturgeon is thinking.
We could slow down the National debt repayments, which would release more money for Capital Projects. It makes sense, that the more people you have in employment, the more they are creating in taxes. It’s a win, win situation.
I think the reason all these proposals will be rejected by Westminster, is because they are being put forward by lowlife, scumbag, Scottish politicians.
They don’t mind Scottish MPs sitting at Westminster, AS LONG AS THEY KEEP THEIR MOUTH’S SHUT.
It will be interesting to note how often a labour minority Government goes through the voting lobbies with their Conservative comrades relative to how many times they go through with any rainbow consensus social democratic parties.
I suppose it will all depend on their agenda and policy choices.
1979 remembered: there were a host of issues which would bring down the Labour government, not least of which was the Winter of Discontent resulting from a LABOUR government reneging on a promise to the trades unions movement to reintroduce ‘free collective bargaining’; free collective bargaining was replaced in Labour’s constitution earlier in the Parliament by a ‘social contract’ which removed many workers rights.
@MarkAustin @caz-m
“Regarding the HS2/3 railway projects, why is it laughed at by English MPs and English media, when Alex Salmond suggests that the line could be started in Scotland?”
… why would they want to waste resources in the colonies on second class imperial subjects?
The way they view us, have always viewed us, is now out in the open.
@mcart. at 6:28
“Labour actions and Labour votes brought down Labour in 79 as has been proven beyond any doubt at this point”
I lettered my MP to make sure he doesn’t take part in any event which promotes the 1979 lie that the SNP ushered in Margaret Thatchers government.
http://www.writetothem.com
you can use this link to contact MP’s MSP’s and Councillors to let them know we know it is a lie that they are continuing to spread.
Local newspapers can be contacted via
http://snp.org/get-involved/contact-the-editor
They won’t always print your letter (although our letter group has had some success here) but someone will have to read it at some stage and just reading it may awaken them to the lie.
Sorry for O/T, but more ammo.
The hedge fund donor of the red tories has been revealed as
Martin Taylor and he stands to gain from privatisation within the NHS.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3006673/Multi-millionaire-hedge-fund-boss-gave-600-000-Labour-stands-cash-privatisation-NHS-services.html
Hardly have the energy to even laugh at SLAB’s pish any more! But a wee smile!
@ gerry
Good links.
Just watching Ed Milliband preaching to the converted, the clap miester is being kept busy.
Does not sound as if there are many attendees.
Talking the usual drive , seems to have forgotten that Labour voted to continue with austerity.
Cannot wait for more drivel from Jimbo.
Here’s a question to you all (and it is a serious question, not some sort of “trick” to annoy you or provoke you).
Can you foresee an SNP deal with the Tories along the lines stated in this (please try to read it through, not just the headline):
http://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2015/03/the-290-seat-conservative-government-1-cameron-should-be-ready-to-negotiate-with-salmond.html
A deal where Scotland gets Home Rule as does the rest of the constituent parts of the UK, with only a few national issues such as Defence left to be voted on in the UK parliament.
The GE is getting ever closer and there will be “deals to be had” afterwards. The question is if the Tories do win more seats than Labour and make this offer to the SNP would they accept it?
Could such an agreement between the SNP and the Tories be plausible?
Looking at it from a “spin” perspective it could be argued that the SNP are looking after Scotland’s best interests as they are moving (just about all the meaningful) decision making processes to Holyrood and therefore leaving the Scottish people to decide for themselves policies on Welfare, Health etc., it would be up to Holyrood to deal with how austerity is managed in Scotland.
The alternative “offer” from Labour might not be anywhere near “as good”, so how do you think this type of “arrangement” with the Tories will be handled?
HS2 will make journeys to and through Scotland longer. Disembark and take another line. No business case, not enough customers. Journeys through Scotland are already up to 60mins longer. The rail line from the central belt to the North has not even been electrified. That is a priority.
Good conversation with Kevin McKenna over on Newsnet. He’s going to write for them. Great to hear some broadcasting that is intelligent and thoughtful as opposed to the childish rubbish MSM indulge in.
http://newsnet.scot/2015/03/the-world-according-to-derek-and-clive-or-kevin-as-he-calls-himself/
Slightly O/T,
I have noticed that Labour have stopped most SNP posters from commenting on their facebook site. Also, many of the Labour supporters who defended Labour on facebook, have now moved to the Conservative facebook site ,primarily to bad mouth the SNP. But also to in a subtle way, re emphasise the importance of the United Kingdom.
This appears to be an entreaty to Conservative voters to put their party loyalty aside, and vote for a union ticket rather than a party political one .It confirms for me that the unionist parties are indeed working together for the defence of the Union rather than for a General Election.
Well my thoughts on that headline was well he should know, he and his party have been voting with the Tories for an awfully long time.
ICM poll: Labour faces wipeout in Scotland after new leader fails to dent SNP support
Jim’ll No fix it.
It appears that the Guardian ICM poll figures, out today, have been static since their previous one in December of last year.
O/T regarding renewables in a “third world” country.
A county with a population of 4.8 mill seems to have the same ideas as Scotland regarding renewable energy and is, or on the verge of being 100% self-sufficient.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/costa-rica-goes-75-days-powering-itself-using-only-renewable-energy-10126127.html
Colin Rippey says:
23 March, 2015 at 9:54 am
Colin
That type of article is designed to divide. It implies the SNP can be “bought” and that it is just about haggling over the price.
It is intended to put doubt in the voters mind. The simple test to spot this type of bait is the site they appear on or the right wing paper producing it.
The fact that a Labour-Tory coalition is even being considered should make it clear to every voter in Scotland that Labour are just the Tories by another name.
Colin Rippey
Good question.
i woudl suggest that a lot of people wouldnt care who the SNP did andy deals with because they would trust the SNP to always be doing the right thing for Scotland.
Given Scots now distrust Labour as much as they dislike the Tories, it doesnt make much difference who gives Nicola the glad eye, she always knows its her who holds the power.
Federalism would be seen as yet another stepping stone towards Independence, whats not to like as long as no new Act of Union signed immortality etc
And all the while….the sad scream of Scottish Labour dies low into the night. Which is nice.
Labour are still employing the same tactics as in the referendum. So they (Labour or Better Together) do something which is unpopular, stupid, illegal, immoral etc, their next step before it becomes public is to accuse YES or SNP of the very thing they just did themselves. The allegation isn’t true but it means that it takes the sting out of their own misdeeds. Should it be mentioned it can be portrayed as sour grapes. As indicated, there are two problems with this strategy: 1) the public are aware of this from the referendum debate 2) the public are not stupid and they ARE paying attention. Jim has a loaded gun but he’s running out of feet.
Some O/T thoughts.
I completely gave up with the Tories when they stomped all over Murdo Fraser and his idea of an independent Scottish Tory party and forced in that other person who had only been a party member for two years.
Both the Tories and now Labour are reaping what they sow.
Like the Krell on Altair 4 aka the Forbidden Planet they forgot one thing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbidden_Planet
“The monster from the Id”.
A majority of voters are Scottish.
OT
Channel 4’s Dispatches… tonight
Cash for access: Fake donor pays way to heart of big parties
@ Colin Rippey (9:54 am)
It is interesting that the idea is being floated on a conservative site.
I do not think it will gain traction within the tory party, however, and that is for several reasons.
First and foremost, the conservatives are unionists at their core, I think. That implies more than just wanting to keep the constituent parts of the union together: it also means maintaining the sovereignty of the Westminster parliament. This is an idea which is very deep in english constitutional thinking (though not necessarily articulated often), and it is a major difference between Scottish and English views on political philosophy. While many of us are not particularly conscious of the importance of the assumptions which underpin the day to day opinions on particular matters I think they are there and they influence our perceptions of what is possible in a very real way. Although the Westminster establishment is in thrall to American ideas in many ways, I honestly believe that federalism is a step too far in that direction. Westminster sovereignty is at the heart of English conceptions of democracy and should not be underestimated.
In addition I believe that the neoliberal project is very far advanced and very strong within all of the Westminster parties. Some of the politicians genuinely believe the analysis which informs it: many others are cynical in the sense that they pursue those policies for personal and class gain, and in ht einterests of the global elite, rather than the good of the people. But it does not matter what the proportions are, because in practice they preach TINA. They will never allow a situation where that is demonstrated to be untrue, and if any country shows that there is a better way they will do all they can to crush it. I have no doubt about that. FFA would give Scotland the opportunity to show that things don’t have to be that way. There are stirrings of challenge to their orthodoxy in many parts of the world now: they know it and will not allow anything which furthers those ideas. Federalism has the potential to do just that, but without the prospect of merely ignoring any good outcomes (as lack of much reporting of the Scandinavian model does) if Scotland adopts such policies while a federal part of the UK. It is true that they largely ignore what happens in Scotland most of the time: but if there were radically different policies under a federal arrangement that would not be possible to hide: for we have too many family and friendship relationships to make that easy. It is possible to think that a deal with the SNP would be OK because they broadly accept the tenets of neoliberalism ( as seen by their acceptance of the debt and deficit narrative): but a federal Scotland may, in the future, vote for a party which does not accept those axioms. Then the ball is on the slates, big time. I do not think they will risk that: for more than the UK is at stake then. Also, I think it is possible that the SNP publicly accept the neoliberal views because of the success of Osborne in persuading people that debt and deficit are our biggest problem – as evidenced by the many references to that on this board. It does not necessarily mean they have bought it and I have some hope that Ms Sturgeon has not. It may be the party would gradually move to a different narrative if they had FFA: from a tory point of view (and that includes both labour and the lib dems), heaven forfend!
The tory party are most involved in the demonisation of the SNP, Scottish government and the Scottish people. They and the labour party are complicit in the promotion of the xenophobic narrative which is now so strong within the english polity. It started with immigration, led by the tories but colluded with by labour going back many years – think “firm but fair immigration policy” from Mr Blunkett years and years ago. That was a compromise between good and evil, so familiar in so many fields from Nu Labour, and it has led us to where we are today. It has worked in ways they probably did not imagine at the outset, and their membership of the EU is now under threat because of their folly (that is not to say that I support that membership – I used to but no longer): but they do. It is hard to see how they can deal with the move to withdraw while at the same time proposing federalism within the UK. UK exceptionalism does not admit of that solution, so far as I can see. It is easy to imagine the UKIP tendency attacking such proposals in the same way as they attacked the notion of Scottish independence: it is not true independence if you are a member of the EU: just rule from Brussels rather than London. Much of the rhetoric within rUK presents the english as victims: but behind it is the sovereignty argument which was my first point: and it seems clear to me that the anti european stance is founded on the idea that “we, the UK, must be wholly free to take all decisions at Westminster”. How can they reconcile that aspiration with a federal system?
The article you linked is rational so long as you ignore the underlying motivations for being a conservative in the first place: those are different for politicians than for voters, but the “leaders” cannot ignore the well spring which motivates people to vote conservative and I think they will not
In Glasow. MacDonalds the furniture shop is having a closing down sale. Perhaps Jim can get a few extra seats there. After all the party with most seats gets in. How about a concert house they have lots of seats. Do recliners count!
The Record is in all but name a Labour Party publication. Albeit an inept lying publication its colours are firmly nailed to its masthead.
Be intriguing to see which way the other papers fall come May 7th
@Clootie
“That type of article is designed to divide. It implies the SNP can be “bought” and that it is just about haggling over the price.”
I think that is a valid point pre-election, no doubt. But…post-election there will be choices to be made (and perhaps the opinions on choices should be left ’til afterwards).
But you can’t escape the fact that the SNP will be looking to deal with “someone”, stating preferences now won’t change the mind of anyone committed to voting SNP. This is what is going to happen.
I think that the Labour line of “if the SNP do any sort of deal with the Tories they’d be finished” is out of touch.
From my reading of SNP voters, they no longer care at all about arguments on whether Scotland “can go it alone”, Oil, Economics etc., they just want as much power for Holyrood as they can get, and even if that meant a deal with the Tories post-election it would not bother any SNP voter in the slightest, regardless of the hoo-ha Labour would raise about it.
It’s as if the shift in politics in Scotland is “The Tories and Labour are the exact same, so whoever offers us the best deal is fine with us as we’ve made up our minds and won’t be changed, we’re voting SNP and that’s that”.
So, just wondering if the best choice on offer – a fully federal UK would be palatable, or would you rather see some sort of “influence” over the rest of the UK whilst gaining more powers (but maybe not all) for Holyrood?
I personally think that the “influence” over the rest of the UK will be far too seductive a lure for the SNP leadership to give up; even if it meant the levels of control over Holyrood they so desire. These people are political animals and live for the chance to sit in a room and “deal”.
Does anyone still read that rag…?
@Fiona, 11.26
Cracking post.
Again, I am NOT trying to “annoy” you all, and I note that the earlier link was to a Tory website, but it does pose questions on the scenarios that could arise that are entirely plausible.
Thinking about this a bit, if the Tories get around 290 seats, and say Labour get around 280 seats, and the SNP get around 40 seats. Whomever the SNP “chose” would make them the party who keeps the government in power.
If the Tories offered a federal state with only Defence, Foreign Affairs etc. reserved to Westminster, this would seem on the surface to be the absolute best deal that the SNP could get.
They would have (with the exception of course of Trident renewal) the chance to exercise everything they ever wanted for independence with the questions over currency gone, and the questions over EU membership gone (Cameron only every promised an in/out referendum on Europe if the Tories got a majority, so that’s not going to happen any time soon).
Labour simply won’t offer the SNP a deal that they can stomach, they just won’t as Labour “believe” that they’re still the party that SNP voters should be voting for, the SNP have somehow “stolen” the Labour votes.
The Tories are under no illusions at all, they understand beyond a shadow of a doubt that the SNP voter aint gonnae vote Tory anytime ever.
So, an “arrangement” with the Tories would have the SNP able to decide “all meaningful legislation” from Holyrood free from Westminster saying “sorry, you can’t do that”.
However, if this scenario did arise, who exactly would be the body making decisions? Would it be the MSPs in Holyrood? If so, what would become of the (just this minute) newly elected group of SNP MPs who all thought they were off “doon soof” to “kick up a storm”.
(I’m trying to tone down the hyerbole here, I’m really interested in what your thoughts are).
Perhaps this is all academic for now, but this is what is slowly starting to creep through the cracks (and given that this type of idea was floated on a Tory website says it all really).
Too often this website is about the tabloid effect (more and more lately) but last year there were several thorough discussions around all sorts of theoretical ideas.
I can see Scotland facing an entirely new constitutional question, one which is who has the power – the MSPs or the MPs.
And…in a perverse sort of way, the fact that the SNP are “tooled up” to go down to Westminster and pick apart whatever legislation is put forward by Westminster, EVEN if the SNP are offered the full package of a federal UK they’ll reject it. They’ll reject it because the SNP MPs won’t give up their chance of “realpolitik” against the rest of the UK.
The MSPs will have a glimpse of power, it’ll be there, right in front of them – but the block of MPs will be saying “errr, what about us then?”.
I thought the aftermath of the 2010 GE was fascinating, but the aftermath of the 2015 GE will be a sequel most worthy.
@Morag says:22 March, 2015 at 10:57 pm:
“People talk about the possibility of a Labour/Tory coalition, but honestly, it seems a complete impossibility to me. How would they even start talking about that one? How would it come about? I can’t get my brain round it.”
Och! Morag, the Establishment has, for the most part, always just played at being in opposition to each other. When the Labour Party first began they were indeed in proper opposition but they soon became part of the Establishment. Remember the original Labour Party were Home Rulers but yet never fought that policy through at Westminster.
I suppose it is a reflection upon the old saw, “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely” Just BTW: the Establishment is about to award those of their number who sit on committees a pay rise of £10,000 per annum. 180 members who sit on committees are to get a top-up of £10,000 and the 18 chairs a top up of £9,000 each.
This while the biggest growing industry in the UK is in food banks and sanctions against the most poor in the UK.
The Weekly sham of two rich posh boys, from the same social strata and educational background, shouting insults at each other as overgrown former pupils of Eton/Harrow – Oxford/Cambridge is utter showbiz. They don’t care about others and, if the Establishment is threatened, they are sure to jump into bed with each other and they are both backed by the LibDems, the Civil Service, Armed Forces, Security Services, Education System, Established Church and the Fourth Estate.
It’s all a sham for there has been a south Britain Ruling Elite in South Britain since the first Roman occupation half a century before Jesus was born. These elites keep themselves aloof and interbreed mainly among themselves. We do, after all, still have the royals as Head of State and hereditary peers in the HOL. Look at the heads of every type of public body – who are they and where did they come from.
Even the main heads of the UK’s main charities are from the Establishment and they use charity funds to pay themselves large salaries. We mugs give for free and they use large dollops of it to pay large fees and expenses to themselves.
As I said, I do not think that this scenario will ever arise, for reasons I have given
But let us say that it did. I do not see the problem as you do.
The SNP have always said they will not vote on matters which do not affect Scotland. I don’t happen to agree with that, but there it is. In the situation you envisage there would be a federal state, and it follows that SNP MP’s would not vote on devolved matters at all, for they could not. Their position in Westminster would be exactly the same as that of any other MP: they would vote as seems good to them on matters which come before that parliament. There would be no other purpose in them being there. MP’s of all stripes would not vote on devolved matters either, for they could not. What is not to like?
It seems to follow that the SNP MP’s could achieve such an outcome without any deal with the tories: I presume that you envisage they would not offer it without a quid pro quo, but it is hard to imagine any conditions they could impose being acceptable to the SNP, given their wider positions on matters which are not related to independence. I do not think there is any chance those MP’s would vote to renew trident, for example
Your whole post appears to be predicated on, first, a wearisome presumption that polticians are always, everywhere and necessarily venal: and I have more faith in democracy than that. And second a presumption that real power lies at Westminster even after a fully federal arrangement such as you describe .
I do not accept the proposition that the SNP candidates are “tooled up” and are intent on whatever you mean by “realpolitik against the rest of the UK”. Once again the desire for independence and self determination is not “against” anyone: it is for ourselves and our welfare.
You are importing many unionist assumptions and attributing them to the SNP and the wider independence movement. Why are you doing that?
@ Robert Peffer
I agree with all you say, yet I do not accept your conclusion. It is true that this is the establishment’s sham. But it is a sham which is absolutely necessary to the maintenance of their power. I do not believe that they can expose it as a sham without risking loss of the whole shebang. And they will not do that
What is worrying is that they can do it if they can convince the electorate it is necessary in order to deal effectively with an external threat: and I would not put it past them to manufacture one. That way lies war, for they will not be able to contain the genie once they release it. It is my biggest fear, for that is what they have done before when their economic policy has done so much damage that they are under threat of rebellion. But they have a long way to go before they can make that credible (I hope). They certainly can’t do it immediately after the election
@Fiona
“Your whole post appears to be predicated on, first, a wearisome presumption that polticians are always, everywhere and necessarily venal: and I have more faith in democracy than that.”
Good for you, I agree, politicians enter politics to “do good”. Trouble is, politicians have political leaders, and it is political leaders who ultimately make the decisions, and all the party leaders are career politicians. If you don’t think so consider the last GE and what transpired with the Lib Dems – who could have ever foreseen the Lib Dems entering into an actual coalition with the Tories.
“You are importing many unionist assumptions and attributing them to the SNP and the wider independence movement. Why are you doing that?”
Not sure what this means, I am posing a question on a hypothetical situation that could arise – and almost certainly will arise. If this to you is unionist assumptions then hmmm, not sure what unionist assumptions are all about.
@GM_Dundonian says: 22 March, 2015 at 11:14 pm:
“*sigh* They just can’t seem to grasp these headlines make little difference to those who now see Westminster as three colours of Tory – Blue, Red, Yellow. All back austerity, nuclear weapon spending, social injustice and umpteen other things many Scots no longer want or can identify with.”
Do I have to keep showing the truth about, “The Establishment”, all the time?
The Establishment has always been there and, if it is allowed to, it always will be there. It is still the same tactics the original Establishment, The Romans, used when they were the south Britain Establishment. Divide and conquer and then convert whoever of the public is running the show to join as members of the Establishment. The Romans, “Romanised”, some Britons then sat back and had them living like Romans in Roman villas running the show for Rome.
Take the historic example of when the Working classes rose in protest and formed the Labour Party. The took over from the Establishment and made genuine changes in the United Kingdom – that is until they were infiltrated by, and joined the Establishment.
The same social strata that are the on-going Royals and descendants of the old Norman Aristocracy are still there in the Lords and Commons running the show now. The Establishment leaders come from the same stable. Rich, private school educated, on to Eton or Harrow then Oxford or Cambridge then right into a Unionist Political Party in a safe seat.
Labour joined them long ago and remember the Liberals who amalgamated with the Social Democrats to form the LibDems were once the unionist, “Whigs”. Here’s what Burns said of the Whigs : –
Some Establishment things will only change if we actively change them – and keep them changed. Remember that the North Britons have been trying to keep out South British Establishments since the Romans first pushed north.
So, if you want to go to a box with some bones, belonging to a man dead for 500 years, in Leicester, you will have to wait until tomorrow.
There are too many people queuing up to get within touching distance of the said box.
FFS, England is turning into a living theme park.
It is all they have left.
“Jim Murphy warns SNP against working with the tories or they will end up destroyed in Scotland.”
Well that’s nice of him. Maybe we should listen to Jim, after all he does have some personal experience in these matters. I keep wondering just how many more complete imbeciles have we voted in to govern us? We, the voters, have been asleep at the wheel, not any more Jimbo. Tatties o’er the side for you.
Seems to me we should not be wasting any more time analizing Jim the Patriot he is obviously heading down the path of self destruct and requires no more pushing.
What truth is there in Bateman suggesting Stuart is the Scotsman’s next editor?
(The current is off to the Times Scottish edition – confirmation of his failure.)