The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


We less, we happy less

Posted on March 13, 2014 by

We’re given to believe that this is real, not a spoof.

lessjobs

Just when we thought our opinion of them couldn’t possibly sink any lower.

These are the other two posters which were leaked to us via a polling company:

badbreak

sayno

Is it fair to say the “positive case for the Union” is finally officially dead?

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189 to “We less, we happy less”

  1. Bob W says:

    If these are actual BT posters they really have scraped the through the bottom of the barrel. Reminds me of the 1979 Tory billboards.

    Any fool can see that there will be jobs created by the need for entities to carry out functions presently the responsibility of the WM government.

    Probably in a more economical manner (no London weighted salaries and other costs). Workers paid by Scots and adding to the Scottish economy, rather than the money being syphoned to London and the SE.

  2. sionnach says:

    FEWER jobs, surely? Never trust a bad grammarian.

  3. Hazel Lewry says:

    The poor thing was only ever alive in the foetid imaginations of the “no” crowd.
    Definitely a new(er) low.

  4. sionnach says:

    Sorry Rev, should have read the caption first!

  5. A. Graham says:

    Oh, that’s bad. I daresay they will invent an excuse, though. Perhaps they’ll claim they were merely saving money on ink.

  6. Gray says:

    I’m confused .. when we vote yes in September is Scotland going to move north or the rUK south?

    I suggest the Bitter Bight as a name for the new stretch of water.

  7. Craig says:

    Looking at that map, we are certainly not ‘too wee’ in terms of area. They forgot to run it past the BBC before printing it.

    How much area to we have per resident?

    How much water do we have per resident?

    How much electricity do we have per resident?

    How much oil do we have per resident?

    We have so many resources that ‘proud and patriotic’ Scots like Gordon Brown want to enshrine in a constitution that we keep on sending our surpluses to England.

    The likes of Gordon Brown WANT to keep our own children in poverty so that THEY can grandstand on the world stage.

  8. bookie from hell says:

    Sad thing is,they only need to target 15% with the kitchen sink.

    Saving the Union is all that matters

  9. ronnie anderson says:

    How low can they go,lower than a snakes belly,

    See Mark Sabatta lecture Westminster ( Aug,Sept 13)every dirty

    trick in the book & then some, Sabatta,s the guy that orginized

    Obama campain,(a political stratagist ).

  10. Macart says:

    There’s no one in BT who can claim to be a ‘proud Scot’ if those posters are actual releases. That’s pretty f***ing low, even by their standards.

    A strong positive case my arse.

    YES aspire

    NO despair

  11. ronnie anderson says:

    Thats the BT back room boys for you, shooting for the stars but

    hitting the gutter.

  12. Roll_On_2014 says:

    OT
    I wonder if The Daily ToryGraph can put the same spin on This Article as they did this One.

  13. Clootie says:

    The “English” makes sense if you picture it in the empire context of educated Johnny shouting at the dumb locals – “me clever, you dumb” . Picture someone in a white suit shouting at an Indian about 70 years ago.

  14. Onwards says:

    They work as posters in that it is a simple message, regardless of the truth.

    I wonder if the ‘positive only’ approach is working, or if the YES campaign needs more of a mix.

    eg It would be useful to see a few posters illustrating the difference between the Scottish and Norwegian oil funds.

    Or at least taking the piss out of the constant scaremongering.. or making people think about it – with a “Don’t let them fool you” message.

    I have a feeling all the negativity will backfire at some point. People don’t like being patronised and put down.

  15. Onwards says:

    Maybe the YES/NO campaigns could agree on a joint billboard campaign, to save money, with one simple question.

    Where should political decisions be made for Scotland?

    Scotland – VOTE YES
    London – VOTE NO

  16. Nick Heller says:

    I notice that Scotland has accquired a new island community just south of our new coastline accorning the the new maps. Does it have a name? Perhaps it should be chrstened in honour of those who are doing so much to help create the new Scotland. Perhaps “Little Cringe” or “Mickle Naw”.

    Former titan Gordon Brown might have an idea;
    http://thescottishscaremonger.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/the-gordon-brown-big-book-of-cunning.html

  17. Chris Paton says:

    Vote YES for better grammar!

  18. Gav Bain says:

    It’s not just that new stretch of water opening up that’s a bit weird, if this is supposed to be a map of the UK, what have they done with Northern Ireland?

    A version showing rUK cutting it’self away from the rest of Europe would look pretty similar, at least in that context, the threat to jobs would be accurate. The rUK separating themselves and moving away to the south, lubricated on a bed of fracking fluid.

  19. Gray, I expect they’ll tilt us West whilst angling themselves South for another border chop into our oil, nice article on http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-charges-scotland-billions-of-pounds-in-service-costs/ which mentions the 28‰ less defence jobs in the past decade. But if they use our military as they have done then at least there’s a good turnaround and they can always use those sandbags now.

  20. heedtracker says:

    What have they done with Shetland and the thousands of square miles of resource rich Scottish Atlantic and North Sea too? Must have just slipped their BetterTogether minds or Blair’s secret pen slipped and they took all our seas too.

  21. scottish_skier says:

    If all these companies are going to up sticks and move to England if Scotland votes Yes, should the English Tory, Labour and Lib parties not be campaigning vigorously for Scottish independence? Would be in the interests of their constituents would it not?

    Anyway, just got a copy of the Yes newspaper. Thanks to whoever travelled out into the wilds to put it through my door. The saltire flapping in the breeze over the car port and Yes stickers on the cars might have given a wee clue as to how this home is voting.

  22. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    Little sign of Shetland there, or much of Orkney…

    But perhaps when they rotate Scotland even further anti-clockwise the Northern Isles might reappear.

    Maybe their climate might even improve.

    “What did you do in the referendum debate, papa?”

    “I pretended I knew how to run a campaign on independence without actually speaking to the people who were voting…”

  23. scottish_skier says:

    Looks to me we’ll gain quite a bit of extra continental shelf according to the those BT posters.

    Also, no need for a barbed wire fence along the border, so that’s that argument stuffed.

    The irony is the line sits right along the Iapetus suture.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iapetus_Suture

    I blame plate tectonics.

  24. Craig P says:

    Breaking Bad: an otherwise good man f

  25. Craig P says:

    Breaking Bad: an otherwise good man forced by an inhumane system to take matters for improving his life into his own hands.

    Wonder how the focus groups reacted to the poster…

  26. Gayle says:

    The middle poster should say Breaking Wind. There really is no low that these dolts won’t sink to try and scare people.

  27. Paula Rose says:

    If these come from a polling company – are they asking which poster people prefer?

    Me, I prefer the top one its funnier plus it could be read that the south would be losing the jobs.

  28. Gin says:

    I guess with this true separation scenario there will be no need for Berwick to petition to return to its Berwickshire hinterland. Perhaps BT are just establishing a pre-negotiating position?

  29. scottish_skier says:

    Ah, brings back memories of the ‘successful’ 1997 campaign.

    https://www.greenleft.org.au/sites/default/files/imagecache/article-image/scotland_independence.jpg

  30. David Smith says:

    @Gayle.
    There is some merit in that as they continuously speak from the incorrect body orifice anyway.

  31. Croompenstein says:

    Continental Drift ? We might bump into Iceland that’s bound to be a whole lot better as long as we can drop Flipper, Bliar and the bitters off at the Faroes, but the Faroese might harpoon Bliar ah well..every cloud..

  32. Paula Rose says:

    Must be a spoof – that’s the actual border not Hadrian’s Wall.

  33. Mealer says:

    More clout.Thats the positive case for the union.The entirety of it.Together,we can bomb people.And for many British nationalists that’s a very positive thing.I think of it as a big negative.

  34. scottish_skier says:

    Just thinking. I’ll only be ~30 mins from a beach with a nice southerly aspect. Cool.

  35. Gin says:

    @Paula Rose

    Now you point it out all the posters could all be read that way. As BT do seem to associate ‘us’ with Westminster. Just think of all those jobs for Scots MPs and Lords and hangers on that will be impacted …

  36. seasick Dave says:

    Scottish Skier

    That image deserves a wider viewing!

  37. The Man in the Jar says:

    More jobs for Cal-Mac. 🙂

  38. CameronB says:

    We are on the brink of the monumentally historic first democratic vote to decide whether Scotland wants to share parliaments with the rUK, so what do we get from BT? Disappointingly, though not unsurprisingly, we get more scarey disinformation.

    I would say that is more than a little disappointing BT. This was your chance to introduce the positive case for the Union, to add to your oh so positive campaign to say no to independence and self-ditermination.

    It’s nice to see a correctly sized Scotland though, in proportion to the rUK. I wonder if the BBC will be able to mention them without blushing?

  39. Clootie says:

    Although joined at the hip today, 550 million years ago Scotland and England were both in the southern hemisphere, separated by a vast ocean called the Iapetus. To the south of the Iapetus Ocean lay the North American continent included the rocks which now form England, Wales and southern Ireland. 5,000 kilometres to the north lay the American continent, and the rocks of Scotland. As permanent as a large ocean may seem, they don’t last forever. About 500 million years ago both European and American continents started to close in on each other. Underneath the ocean, cold dense oceanic crust was diving down under the lighter continental crust moving the continents ever closer- the process is called subduction. Slowly the Iapetus ocean began to shrink. Around 430 million years ago, the ocean had been squeezed out and the continents collided. Scotland and England were fused together. The seamless join occurs, rather amazingly, not far from Hadrian’s wall.

    …and that is when it all started to go wrong!

  40. caz-m says:

    @S_S

    On the subject of yesterdays GERS figures, was this a set-up by Osborne.

    Did he increase tax on the oil industry that year so he could get the effect he got yesterday.

    Knowing that this was the last set of figures that would be coming out before the referendum.

  41. Lindsey Smith says:

    But it IS true; it will cost thousands of jobs, in rUK. The loss of oil revenue is only one part of the horror story awaiting them; credit risk, worsening balance of payments, loss of customs, VAT, tax revenues will all contribute to huge economic problems.

  42. Breaking Bad is surely a reference to the massively popular US TV show? The masterminds behind the posters are surely just trying to be “down with the kids”…

  43. bjsalba says:

    But it is true there will be less jobs – in London and the South East – starting with the Scottish office and all the non-devolved ministries. Oh and don’t forget the reduction in cushy numbers at all the Quangos, now that they can’t skim off their salaries from the Scottish money.

  44. Albalha says:

    Intresting pay off from J Naughtie on GMS after Laura Bicker’s report from a Yes Glenrothes meeting, around 0740am.
    He said something along the lines of ‘you can be sure there will be a meeting from both sides somewhere near you’.

    Where and when are these mythical public BT events I wonder?

  45. Albalha says:

    Over on twitter very amusing mock up re Breaking Bad and BT.

    https://twitter.com/WorserApart/status/443987375488651265/photo/1

  46. Ian MacDonald says:

    What utter nonsense. Treasury, Foreign Office, Defence, &c all new jobs coming to Scotland in their thousands from our share of the £130 Billion “National” expenditure by the UK government. Did I say “National” or “London”? I always seem to get those two things mixed up.

  47. Aikenheed says:

    From a post on NNS http://www.toryhoose.com/
    (Infrastructure spend article)

  48. heedtracker says:

    Meanwhile, London and the south east powers along getting richer and richer but still they UKOK whine about it all http://archive.is/DRmpn. Scotland, stay with us!

  49. Lee Rogers says:

    That watery gap between us and our nearest neighbours cannae be a bight, it’s a sound, the Sound of Fury perhaps.

  50. scottish_skier says:

    @S_S

    On the subject of yesterdays GERS figures, was this a set-up by Osborne.

    Fair chance it was on his mind. Any big tax grab post 2011 (which is exactly what he did) would have a good chance of hitting production before the referendum, thus GERS figures.

    Anyway, the drop in production recently (while huge investment is going on in new production facilities ahead of a new boom) just means more left in the ground for an iScotland…

    The GERS figures will not have any ‘poll effect’. They haven’t ever before from all the data I have going back many years, so I don’t see why now. The story has already dropped from top place in most outlets; wasn’t even particularly negative for Yes.

  51. CyberNiall says:

    Breaking Bad, for those of you who don’t know, is about a chemistry teacher who is diagnosed with cancer. He can’t afford to pay for the private health care in the U.S. and wants to leave his kids enough money if he’s not there. He makes a fortune making Meth.

    So vote NO to see the NHS privatised and our oil squandered. Maybe Westminster will start legalising drugs, as Colorado have made $2m in taxes in January. Imagine the delight when MP’s realise they can claim all that cocaine on expenses.

    Or we could keep the NHS and an oil fund?

    Breaking Free.

  52. gerry parker says:

    @The Man in the Jar.
    I’d give the jobs to Western Ferries, Cal Mac having navigational difficulties of late.

  53. frazer allan whyte says:

    As an overseas English teacher I appreciate the immediate correction of the NoNos appalling lack of acquaintance with basic grammar but why not see these billboard slogans as an opportunity?

    No1 – plaster a Farage face on the south part and change the slogan to YES! Cut here for fewer Yobs.

    No2 – plaster a Boris face on the south part and change the slogan to YES! Cut here -Freaking Cad – divorce from London will save us from ever being governed by this.

    No3 – plaster a bunch of evil overpriced military toys on the south part and change the slogan to YES! Cut here – No Tanks – divorce from London will save us from ever again being ruled by war criminals

  54. Training Day says:

    I need to visit an optician. Something is causing me to see things bigger than they actually are, in this case Scotland.

  55. SquareHaggis says:

    Heard an interesting slant on the Union on my way to work this morning and thought I’d share.

    Two wifies, one usually gossipy the other I’ve never heard speak before.

    The gossipy one, filled with doubt and project fear negativity goes “But ye ken the auld sayin’ United we stand divided we fall”

    To which the quiet one, giving her a friendly nudge says “Of course you do realise if the Scots unite all those divisions will fall away”

    Pure clarity fae a totally unexpected source.

    I think JoLas Genetically Incapable quip has stuck in the craw, folk are waking up.

  56. the Penman says:

    @frazer Allan Whyte – Good ideas! I was thinking along the lines of adding “Yes – Alasdair Darling’s job, Gordon Brown’s job, and 57 other MPs’ jobs…” to the text.

  57. Edward Coyle says:

    Good morning
    Will the same type of posters be used when Westminster votes to leave the EU?

  58. Wee Jonny says:

    Ha. Looking at the posters is that what’s gona happen to Scotland after the Freedom Fault Line© starts erupting? Git yir oars oot!!

  59. Stuart Murdoch says:

    If the mainland splits like this after independence, think of all the jobs that will be created within CalMac as all those in the ‘Southern Hebrides’ jump on ferries to head north to a better future.

  60. Flooplepoop says:

    @Marcia
    Great minds think alike 🙂

  61. heedtracker says:

    Breaking bad’s a US surfing slang thing so when surfable waves are ideal for them then their breaking bad. Wipe out is pretty clear surf talk too and this is exactly where bettertogether are heading.

  62. FatCandy says:

    I feel like this: youtube.com/watch?v=PbcctWbC8Q0 each morning after reading the latest guff from BT/UK government/MSM. Really gets my blood het up!!

  63. galamcennalath says:

    “cost us thousands of jobs”

    Hmmm, which ‘us’ might that be?

    Are BT actually claiming to be a Scottish organisation? Surely not.

    Nah, they must mean the usual ‘us’ in London. They are trying to get Scots to feel sorry for them. Going for a sympathy vote.

  64. Lanarkist says:

    I was also thinking of some judicious alterations:

    Add arrow after jobs pointing to a ring round London and the South East!

    Paste over “jobs” with ” nukes”,

    That should give everyone something to think about!

  65. Marcia says:

    Looking at the photo in the Record poll report the Yes vote is 39.4% and No is 47.6% before being rounded down for yes and rounded up for No. Interesting the co-author of the report is Jenny Marra’s brother the one who shouted abuse about the FM a while ago and resigned from whatever paid political position he was in at the time.

    Vote for Holyrood is SNP 44.6% Lab 34% Con 13% LD 5% O 3.3%.

  66. Marcia says:

    replace 39.4 with 39.3 at post at 9.02.

  67. scottish_skier says:

    What’s very interesting is how increasingly solid the Yes is and approaching 40% of the total electorate now (given the average turnout since 1945 in UKGEs in Scotland is 72.3% and we’ve not had greater than 78% since the 50’s, this is very significant).

    The no in contrast is highly volatile, ranging from 38-48. Volatility suggests significant weakness, i.e. people are saying one thing then another depending on who is asking, when and how.

    Also, I can see no ‘nuclear effect’ of currency nor ‘Businesses will all leave’ which should worry the crap out of no as that’s all they have.

    Looking deeper into multi-poll trends, IMO we are at or very close to parity which is perfect now that the Yes campaign is about to kick off properly and the No campaign has largely exhausted itself.

  68. BigSteveChisholm says:

    Vote No or MPs will lose their free pudding

    Parliament’s taxpayer-subsidised bars, cafes and restaurants have introduced a pudding loyalty scheme for MPs, journalists and staff. Once you buy a pudding from all four of the eateries taking part, you get one free.

    Vote No so we can wreck Scotland’s NHS too

    Billions of extra funding will be needed for the NHS to help push through “painful and unprecedented” changes during the next parliament, the outgoing boss of the health service warns.

    In a frank interview with the Guardian, Sir David Nicholson said that whoever formed the next government would need to give the NHS extra cash because it could not survive if it had to remain in the straitjacket of austerity-era flat budgets after 2015.

    **

    BBC R2 ran with a different NHS (E&W) story this morning. Leeds Heart Unit failed parents, failed children etc. Incredibly sad but, conveniently, it did reinforce the Government’s ‘NHS bad, NHS needs reforming’ (ie privatising) line. No mention of who’s to blame for running it into the ground. No mention of pudding.

  69. scottish_skier says:

    As an aside, I still find it mysterious that when people were asked about whether they were willing to admit their true stance in public (a lot said they were not normally) and whether they support Yes or No by survation in their recent Express poll, the Y/N results have not been released…

    There’s plenty of evidence why the No is volatile. Even Carmichael admits Yes people are lying and saying something else. Helps explain volatility in No.

  70. galamcennalath says:

    Now I’ve got it! The ‘us’ they refer to is BT people … Scottish MPs in London, anti-independence media hacks, broadcasting staff with Unionist agendas, Lib/Lab/Con MSPs … it definitely a last ditch pitch for sympathy votes.

  71. scottish_skier says:

    Vote for Holyrood is SNP 44.6% Lab 34% Con 13% LD 5% O 3.3%.

    That’s an excellent match for what I have in running analyses.

    What a hell of a ‘honeymoon’. What is it, 7 years now?

  72. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Cmon Better Together will we lose jobs or will it cost us Billions setting up a taxman,navy,army,and on and on they just cant make up their mind,nearly as bad as my mother who calles me a lier when i talk about my childhood.IT NEVER HAPPENED

  73. HandandShrimp says:

    The Record poll pretty much bears out what we were saying about the figures in relation those encountering abuse for their opinions in the Express part of the poll. We are a finger’s breadth away from hitting the 40% mark and that is a milestone. To be only 8.2% behind at this stage is hugely encouraging given the crap we have endured over the last month from Better Together and all their little devils. However, what is really fantastic is that in terms of the male vote we have nudged ahead. What we need in the last 6 months is someone who can make that all important connection with women. I have no idea who that person might be (I seriously doubt Lamont, Darling or McDougall make that connection either but perhaps our female readers can confirm or refute that assumption) but if we can plug that gap this is winnable.

  74. chalks says:

    O/T

    It’s kicking off in Aberdeen, the Chief Executive has sent a letter out to all staff saying the following:

    Council Leader’s Letter

    You will be aware that there has been a great deal of discussion recently about the proposal to again include within the Council Tax Statements a letter from the Council Leader regarding the Council’s Budget and the Five-Year Business Plan.

    Controversy has arisen as the letter this year makes reference to the policy document Aberdeen – the Smarter City agreed by Council at its meeting in August 2012, which itself includes a statement in relation to Aberdeen’s position within the United Kingdom.

    This matter was discussed at a meeting of the Council’s Urgent Business Committee yesterday and the Committee:

    • agreed that it is unacceptable for Council funds to be used for political campaigning;
    • agreed that the letter being sent to the citizens of Aberdeen from the Council Leader reiterates Council policy; and
    • instructed the Chief Executive to send the letters alongside the Council tax statements.

    As a result, I have today instructed that the letter be included in the circulation of the statements.

    I fully appreciate that we all have our own views on the current constitutional debate underway, but when it comes to the business of Council it is for us as officers to provide advice which allows the members to take their decisions. It is then for officers to ensure that these decisions are put into action.

    I also appreciate that it is likely that we will receive a number of comments and complaints from members of the public in relation to the circulation of the letter.

    I would ask that you forward any that you or your team receive to my office using the e-mail address chiefexecutive [at] aberdeencity [dot] gov [dot] uk .

    I and my colleagues in the Office of Chief Executive will ensure that responses are provided.

    So they are going ahead with this, AGAINST the advice of the council solicitors/Chief Executives.

    God help them.

  75. dmw42 says:

    The guys on Hadrian’s Wall are gonna have to shout, really loud.

  76. caz-m says:

    Encouraging results from this comic of a paper, but they still play it as Alex Salmond against the UK.

    The other parties need up their game in explaining to voters that a YES vote is not a vote for Alex Salmond but for Scottish Independence.

    I also disagree with the figures showing the majority of women are against independence.

    I would say it is more likely the case that most women have not yet engaged in the whole referendum debate so far.

  77. bunter says:

    When you think of the GERS figures, Scotlands 8.3% defecit, while still in the UK and while we are still getting the bill for a lot of useless stuff we don’t want, isn’t bad when you have the huge collateral that we have, were we independent. The rUK’s defecit would be backed up by what, were we independent?

    Heartened by the latest poll, and it must really have the bitters scratching their heads after the battering they have given YES lol.

    The info must surely be getting out there, both the strength of Scotlands economy and the incessant lying by the naws.

  78. TheGreatBaldo says:

    Prof John’s take on the latest poll.

    http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/03/survation-poll-suggests-currency-row-still-having-little-impact/

    It does appear that “Operation Chastise” or “The Dambuster Strategy” has failed to demolish the YES vote…if anything just made YES/NO more committed to their cause.

    So Blair McDougall et al have poisoned the Post Indy Ref well for no discernible reason or any great advantage to the No side.

  79. Dcanmore says:

    They’re just throwing anything out there now, no explanation, no facts, just soundbites.

    Anyway, Breaking Bad is just the UK, it’s finished!

  80. SquareHaggis says:

    About these “new maps”

    I’m thinking from a geological position, with Scotland being the more staedfast and solid of the two rocks, granite versus clay, it’s highly improbable that we would have moved anywhere,

    If my suspicions are confirmed then that would mean only one thing, that England has floated south, closed off the english channel and is now butted against what would have been the north west of France.

    OH Horror of horrors!

    That would mean England would have become an official part of Europe.

    That picture of Farage (as mentioned earlier) with a bright red sulky coupon would be entirely apt, as would a very BIG smiley facey thing for us.

  81. bunter says:

    Oh and we must never forget the missing million who are not on the radar and do not usually engage with politics. The YES ground campaign will make an impact here and there are lots of folk who have been hammered by the blue and red tories with nothing to lose from voting YES!

  82. Dcanmore says:

    too early in the morning …

    Anyway, Breaking Bad is just like the UK, it’s finished!

  83. Nadia Tighe says:

    They are a truly a rolling catastrophe. Once again, nothing positive to offer the Scottish people. That glaring grammatical error in 10 foot high letters on the first poster is pretty indicative of the calibre of the No campaign.

  84. Robert Louis says:

    These poll results are very significant, as they demonstrate that ALL the Westminster orchestrated BBC propaganda and MSM lies over the last month have had no effect on the YES vote, and there is still quite some time to go. All that is required is a 5% swing.

    I do not lean heavily on single polls, but considering the mass BBC and media onslaught in recent weeks, against independence, it is clear that project FEAR is NOT working. I am now convinced that if the YES campaign continues with its positive vision for Scotland, and refuses to get dragged into the gutter by project FEAR, then we will win.

    Let’s get talking to people about the POSITIVE case for Scotland running its own affairs, like any other NORMAL country.

    A spring in my step today talking to people. And it’s sunny 🙂 YES!

  85. Shiehallion! Shiehallion! says:

    @ galamcennalath

    It’s telling that while it says that it will cost “us” jobs, it’s not “us” which is shown as the stable part of this daft layout.

    Though England and Wales (and I suppose NI, who knows?) remains fixed and resolute, keeping Greenwich Mean Time nice and orderly, Scotland is drifting off supposedly joblessly on its own till it collides irretrievably with St Kilda.

    And why is Scotland not drifting towards the countries of Western and Northern Europe?

    Does this give any viewer the impression of someone really speaking for “us”? I suppose there’s a kind of twisted honesty there. They’re not actually “us” at all.

  86. G H Graham says:

    The scale & projection of the map is refreshingly accurate, unlike the one the BBC uses every day to report on the weather.

    So it’s not all BAD is it?

  87. Robert Louis says:

    G H Graham,

    Aye, for once (unlike on the blatantly biased and anti Scotland BBC), Scots will see on these posters just how big a country Scotland really is.

    The content sadly, is just more hand wringing, doom and gloom from the glums at project fear.

  88. Alex says:

    On women and there voting intentions. I read somewhere that women are less likely to let anyone know what there voting intentions are.Just to back that up, i was talking to a lady member of my staff, who is a definite yes.As i know she is a yes i was having a causal conversation with her about the referendum when out of nowhere she informs me that she tells everyone else that she is undecided.

  89. X_Sticks says:

    @Juteman

    “Brilliant! ”

    http://www.toryhoose.com/

    Tweeted that one!

  90. HandandShrimp says:

    Regarding Aberdeen Council I do think it might be an idea to return the envelopes unopened with a simple note saying I wish to receive my Council Tax statement separate from political canvassing. Please oblige me by sending them in separate envelopes. Nothing unpleasant or difficult just make them work.

  91. CyberNiall says:

    @Frazer Allan Whyte

    1) You could Divorce from UK will cost U.S. thousands of jobs
    2) BREAKING away from the BAD
    3) Vote for the CUnTs HERE FOR LESS JOBS (arrow to Westminster)
    4) If another celebrity asks Scotland to “stay with us” SAY NO THANKS
    5) CUT HERE for Blair’s maritime border
    6) BREAKING news! Scotland breaks 200 miles away from rUK. Uncovers new oil fields!
    7) REEKING BAD UK debt
    8) BREAKING BAD for rUK. Good for Scotland
    9) BREAKING BRITAIN. The story of Westminster
    10) Divorce from the UK would be SANE. OH, THANKS

  92. Bigdrone says:

    Will we have fishing/oil rights over the new sea areathe ‘Bitter Bight?’ Should we be claiming them now? Think North sea boundery changes!

  93. gavin lessells says:

    O/T
    AYE RIGHT LEAFLETS
    Have had many requests for business card size Aye Right.

    I do not have them. If anyone does could they post the source.

  94. MajorBloodnok says:

    Would be interesting to see these BT posters with the full extent of marine territories (to scale so a direct comparison can be made) and all the oil and gas fields marked on.

  95. Wullie B says:

    Will new jobs not have to be created in an iScotland to replace all those government departments that would move south and also the deptartments that are already south that we would need , such things like DVLA,Treasury,Customs and Excise,Armed Forces etc etc.

  96. Wayne Brown says:

    If only the British Isles had always looked this way we’d have been saved all this trouble.

    Tectonic plates have had it in for Scots since the very start.

  97. CameronB says:

    Did someone mention surf?
    This offering from 1965 seems appropriate.

    The Red Snakes – Driftin’
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsAiW14dKa8

  98. gordoz says:

    O/T Daily Rejig Poll

    For those who believe the polls are accurate and not manipulated.

    I predict YES 39% will be the High water mark for this series of polls. Next polls in will drift back down to 37% (say)

    Any takers ?

    Its all complete bollocks (does anybody know an SNP supporter who is voting NO to make up 16% ???)

    Anyone know Courier poll result on The Broon Stuff ? Now it was a laugh

  99. HandandShrimp says:

    gordoz

    Survation will not do another of these for a month. Amongst the next polls will be the Wings one. I would imagine Yes or the SNP will be commissioning one soon too as it has been an age since they did one. They pocklers will not get it all their own way over the final 6 months.

  100. Hotrod Cadets says:

    scottish_skier says:
    13 March, 2014 at 9:14 am
    As an aside, I still find it mysterious that when people were asked about whether they were willing to admit their true stance in public (a lot said they were not normally) and whether they support Yes or No by survation in their recent Express poll, the Y/N results have not been released…

    I emailed Survation about this. According to them the Daily Record yes/no question, and the Express fears questions, were asked as part of the same ‘omnibus’ poll.

  101. The Rough Bounds says:

    Headlines: ‘Fracking goes disastrously wrong’.

    (If that’s what fracking might do then I’m all for it.)

    Scotland breaking physically and literally away from England? Oh, if only, if only.

    Those types of ‘Britain’ posters are nothing new. I remember back in the ’60s when it was the Labour Party that put out posters showning a map of the British Isles with the area of the borders stylised into two hands gripping each other, as in a handshake. It was pish then and it’s pish now.

  102. Kev says:

    Todays Daily Record poll, puts Yes at 39%, No at 48%, it seems the big fear bombs over the last few weeks aint had much of an impact on Yes:

    http://archive.is/jcRKR

  103. David Halliday says:

    At least it’s not “job’s”.

  104. bunter says:

    If these YES figures keep on coming, then those who really run Britain will be on the blower to wee Gideon to discuss Ecks Plan A.

  105. Taysideterrier says:

    Thousands of jobs like approx 1400 corrupt westminster MP’s and Lords!
    I absolutely detest having to pay them any tax or even recognise them as any sort of authority, and will continue to do my best to inform anyone that engages.
    P.S. throughout my family, friends and work mates I only know of 2 definite NO’s everyone else is yes or leaning that way.

  106. Clootie says:

    I would rather stay positive and get 50 percent good results, than stay negative and get 100 percent bad results!
    Joyce Meyer #

    People think about what they don’t want and attract more of the same. Those who speak most of illness have illness, those who speak most of prosperity have it..etc..
    Rhonda Byrne #

    You cannot help the world by focusing on the negative things. As you focus on the world’s negative events, you not only add to them, but you also bring more negative things into your own life.
    Rhonda Byrne #

    Or you can go for the American import as BT have.

    “Negatives are powerful poison to the mind. Negative campaign’s tap into emotions like anxiety, fear and disgust. They impact the Right Brain, the emotional mind. They always have an impact, especially when they are repeated again and again. It is an additional benefit if you can get the media repeating the negatives over and over.”
    Analysis of the last US presidential elections – How Obamha won.

  107. Michael says:

    Great poll in the Record but we are still trailing in support from women. That’s why supporting this fundraiser is so important.
    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/women-for-independence-our-voices-fundraiser

  108. The Rough Bounds says:

    @David Halliday.

    Or ‘job,s’.

  109. Mary Bruce says:

    Remember the other day when the new Yes billboards came out with their message of hope and positivity and everyone was tweeting and posting photos and we were all dead chuft?

    Can you imagine the no voters being proud and chuft about these spiteful banners? Only those who talk us down and get pleasure from claiming we are incapable will want to re-tweet photos of these when they appear as billboards.

    Im so glad to be on the yes side with all you guys, all campaigning for a positive vision of the future. I think I’d have have given up the will to live by now if I were on the no team.

  110. Proud Cybernat says:

    Wow! Just think of all that wind and wave energy indy Scotland will be able to harness from the ‘Scottish Channel’.

  111. Michael says:

    Great post, Mary, but by God this is a roller coaster ride. It’s emotionally draining but the comradeship is something special. None of us will ever forget this.

  112. Brian Powell says:

    On the Aberdeen council tax with the added letter. I usually take the rates notification out and throw the accompanying bumf into the bin, usually without reading it or giving it more than a glance.

  113. Marcia says:

    Scotland being tricked out of £127 every second;

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/westminster-tricks-scotland-out-of-127-00-per-second/

    ‘Every year the Westminster Treasury deducts a sum from Scotland’s block funding grant to pay for a share of the UK’s rising debt, none of which Scotland ran up. In the latest figures the amount removed from Scotland budget was £4.02bn or 33% of Scotland’s deficit in 2012/13.’

  114. Gillie says:

    We can call the new sea between the two countries the ‘Scottish Channel’ as the English already have one of their own.

    It is a pity that England will end up with LESS JOBS though, but them’s the breaks.

  115. Ken MacColl says:

    Aberdeen -The Smarter City.
    Who on earth thought that slogan up? Could it be Willie Young?

    They must be kidding! They are the laughing stock of the country.

  116. After Miliband’s suicide note yesterday over a referendum on E.U withdrawal,so obscure that even the political journalists who are well used to double speak couldn’t understand what he was proposing, it now seems certain that in 2015 the next rUK Government will be led by Dave/Boris and Nigel. What a billboard that would make.

  117. Iain says:

    Brown and his cronies are simply defending their personal salaries and privileges at WM. We should not waste time considering their selfish views, which take no account of Scotland’s interests.

  118. SquareHaggis says:

    Just as a wee (romantic?) foot-note I guess,

    I must say, I do find the Scotland part most aesthetically pleasing to the eye, a most beautiful shape for an island.

    Like a rearing horse declaring itself to all the world.

    Now, if BT could put back the northern isles we’d be a Unicorn again.

  119. scottish_skier says:

    I emailed Survation about this. According to them the Daily Record yes/no question, and the Express fears questions, were asked as part of the same ‘omnibus’ poll.

    Thanks – those tables are going to be very interesting. I’m particularly interested in ‘shyness’ results in cross-tabs.

    One thing to note about survation, is published figures are asking about a referendum held tomorrow, also based on projected turnout. In their last poll, the former added a couple of % to No (from what I can see in tables) compared to when they were asking about September. Yes was unchanged though; a further sign of how solid Yes is becoming, and how no is more volatile.

    As for adjusting to projected turnout – it worries me a lot that pollsters are doing this. Historically, both in Scotland and globally, turnouts for referenda tend to be lower than for elections, surprising as that may be.

    It’s because people don’t have party loyalty to fall back on. Ergo, if their heart nor head can tell them what to do, they don’t vote. To vote, they need to be sure. At the moment, the pollsters are getting rather silly numbers saying they’re sure they’ll be voting. Numbers higher than record turnouts of the 1950’s. I think its very dangerous to base projections on this as a result.

    In terms of turnout, Yes has a much more solid base it would seem given its low volatility compared to no. Changes in Yes are within MoE. No has well over double the range.

    Incidentally, high volatility was a characteristic of the Labour share in polls 2010 / early 2011 before it collapsed. It’s a sign people are not committed.

  120. Tamson says:

    The mental image I get is of a spaceship jettisoning the burnt-out, useless first stage…

  121. SquareHaggis says:

    YEP Tamson, I can definitely see that, good un 😀

  122. Tamson says:

    Good graffiti opportunity – put some rocket flames under Scotland!

  123. SquareHaggis says:

    Heh heh, but which part would be HAL?

  124. galamcennalath says:

    They’re not really very good at this campaigning business, are they?

    A BT ‘newspaper’ fell through my door the other day.

    First reaction? Cheaply printed. Not like the bright and much larger YS one which came in a few weeks ago.

    What’s missing? No mention of more powers. It’s a rather sad attempt to sell the status quo.

    The middle spread is “10 reasons why staying in the UK gives Scots the best of both worlds.”

    Two of their advantages (Nos 4 & 5) are about striding the world stage with a big stick. Hmm … if you like that sort of thing.

    No2 Higher spending in Scotland. Yea, but it’s our money after all. And they don’t mention the money flowing south never to return. The higher spending is probably threatened more by a No and change to Barnett. They won’t say that, though.

    I find No9 deeply offensive “… specialist treatment we need anywhere in the UK NHS.” There is no such thing as the UK NHS, never was. Scotland’s has always been a separate organisation. Of course we share specialist expertise which will continue after independence. Turn the page and this offensive NHS pitch continues. A lady is featured as owing “her life to that greatest of UK institutions, the National Health Service”. The NHS in Scotland is at far less risk than that in rUK. With independence Scotland will continue to have an NHS, rUK may not in the longer term! Using the NHS as being threatened by independence is inexcusable. BT are truly in the gutter with this!

    No8 fuel bills. They have to be joking.

    No6 “Lower licence fee and more programmes” Are they serious?

    Oh yes, No1, a Scottish parliament and “strength and security of being part of the UK”. And what has the UK actually done for us we could do better ourselves? They don’t really say.

    If this is their best offering, they are doomed to failure!

    Actually, the recipe for Raspberry Brownies looks not bad. Perhaps they should have kept to food recipies!

  125. David Halliday says:

    O/T, I think the Yes figures for women in today’s Record are actually 4% up on the last Survation poll (http://survation.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Scotland-Issues-Poll-Report.pdf) though so are those for No, by a slightly smaller number. Take out the don’t knows and women are roughly 60% No and 40% Yes with a majority of men already Yes.

  126. SquareHaggis says:

    I feel a theme coming on

    http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HwBmPiOmEGQ

  127. creag an tuirc says:

    Well, at least the first image has some acurate information on it. The 6,000 mile seabed border change/theft by New Labour 🙂 Somebody needs to update that graphic

  128. Dorothy Devine says:

    Someone slap them over the fingers with a rule!
    No very good at the old grammar thingy are they?

    As for my old hometown councillors, their no very good at very much except giving themselves a showing up.

    Could a council have a collective blush I wonder?

  129. bookie from hell says:

    Gillie says:
    13 March, 2014 at 10:21 am
    We can call the new sea between the two countries the ‘Scottish Channel’ as the English already have one of their own.

    brilliant

    I was thinking,when these BT posters come out,if someone could paste OIL RIGS top part,and a massive HOUSE OF LORDS bottom part.

  130. theycan'tbeserious says:

    They are going to need a huge and very sharp pair of scissors. Unfortunately Scotland no longer has the industrial capacity nor steel industry to produce them…thanks westminster! I guess they will have to source cheaper and inferior ones from abroad…you get what you pay for, and I hope they are sharp enough to see the job through. We don’t want to leave anyone behind… south of the “dire straits”!

  131. Desimond says:

    Back in London working this week and walked out of Bank station to see someone handing out City A.M newspaper (capitalist lobbyist pap!). It was folded but the front headline showing read

    SCOTS SPLIT HIT BY BLACK HOLE

    I thought “God, we’ve went from fiction right into Science Fiction now!”

  132. Desimond says:

    @Ken MacColl

    Aberdeen..more Strip Joints per head than any other place in the UK. It should have a new slogan

    Aberdeen – Sponsored by Femfresh

  133. velofello says:

    Rev: how about a rework of this breaking diagram colouring in Scotland in rainbow colours? Dark gloomy black is appropriate for Better Together.

  134. Seasick Dave says:

    I wonder if we’ll get a few nice new bridges to cross the Scottish Channel.

  135. auslander says:

    Does the cut in the first one also include the annexed oil fields that Tony took?

  136. chalks says:

    Scotland looks so much better not attached.

  137. lumilumi says:

    My immediate, split-second reaction when I saw the first one on the top of the page:

    “So, less jobs in the south if Scotland goes independent.” The “less jobs” claim is even next to England and Wales, FFS! (Oh, the pitfalls of graphic design… never mind grammar…) 😀

    The BT message is: It’s better for rUK to hold on to Scotland. That’s what they mean with Better Together.

    But these posters can’t surely be real, can they? 😀

  138. Desimond says:

    Looking at the broken images above and is it just me who is reminded of that old Video Game where you had to dock one spaceship onto another?

    #AstroBlaster

  139. Tattie-bogle says:

    BT always say the snp want to put up borders/barriers looks like BT are putting seas up

  140. lectron says:

    YES for MORE

  141. scottish_skier says:

    The solid and continuous >10% rise in Yes from Late 2012 to touch 4/10 now has come almost exclusively directly from No. DK’s remain largely unchanged on average, which is only to be expected.

    The direct, slow but steady movement from No to Yes suggests that No has almost zero hope of bringing these people back on board. After all, they tentatively said Yes in 2011, before stating no 2012. They’ve then shifted day after day in a steady fashion to create a growing, solid Yes base consistently falling within a small range of only ~4 points normally (in straight, basic Y/N Q’s) confirming this.

    In contrast the No have people saying ‘No’ sometimes and DK or Yes at other times which appears to be a major factor in No volatility (scatter within a >10 point range poll to poll). If we take the long term No minima trend, then, somewhere around where we are now, it just met Yes again.

    If trends continue, we can expect increasing frequency of parity polls / those with little to no gap as we move into spring. We have of course seen Yes marginally ahead in ‘indirect’ Y/N polls where shy factor is reduced; this should trickle through to direct results soon.

    The Osballs/dambusters effect appears to have had zero impact on the rising Yes trend. Neither does it appear to have impacted No, albeit the volatility here makes any change difficult to discern.

  142. scottish_skier says:

    In the last 2 survation polls, an average of only 33% said they’d definitely vote No. Time and again we see this figure. This is really the best No can hope to be sure of.

    As is common too, Yes people show notably more tendency to say they’ll definitely vote; Y = 81.5% 10/10 compared to only N = 66.2% 10/10.

    These numbers again reflect the weakness of No.

  143. lumilumi says:

    It’s nice to see Scotland depicted more or less the correct size for a change (minus Shetland, of course. That’s the trouble with a long north-south country and landscape orientation). That alone makes me wonder if these are real BT posters. Surely BT would use the BBC weather map projection? 😀

    As to the new Scottish Channel 😀 Imagine fast forwarding a couple of decades to this report in the Scottish media:

    The Scottish Parliament votes to fund the important transport link, the “Scunnel” road and rail tunnel, despite the impoverished English Government pulling out of the project.

    Transport and Infrastructure Minister said, “This vital link will benefit not only Scotland but also our English friends in Cumbria and Northumbria. It is regrettable that the English Government has had to pull out, but this major public infrastructure investment will balance the books and ensure that our currency will not harden too much, thereby potentially harming our booming exports in renewables, Generation 5 AI, food and drink, tourism and many other sectors.”

    The “Scunnel” is widely welcomed by the businesses and industry community, not the least by the already booming south coast tourism industry.

    However, some groups have expressed concern that the “Scunnel” would lead to easier mass-immigration from England. Minister for International Affairs responded by saying, “Scotland has nothing to worry about from more English immigration. We’ve got the jobs and who better to fill them than our southern friends. Time has shown that English immigrants settle well into the Scottish society and share our values of government by the people for the people.”

    Meanwhile in Wales, the English Government’s decision to pull out of “Scunnel” is seen as burying any hopes of a “Wunnel” across the Channel Cymraig. A spokesperson for the Welsh Government said, “While our economy is booming we do not have the resources of Scotland to make it happen without investment from the English side. However, we will invest more on ferries to ensure Wales remains an accessible favourite holiday destination for all Britons. Scots are already the second largest group of holidaymakers in Wales and the “Scunnel” will only boost their numbers.”

  144. scottish_skier says:

    Based on 10/10 certain to vote, we’d see something of a historical turnout of 74% with a 50/50 Y/N split if the vote was today according to survation.

    Ties in with the ICM wisdom poll last month which people felt that, based on their own experiences, Y and N were neck and neck.

  145. Desimond says:

    Its interesting that BT even dared considering the use of a Divorce comparison as its clearly very damaging in those terms.

    That said, they do seem to be acting like the partner who even though they know they are acting badly and who say they will stop “this time..honest”, just keep on repeating the same mistakes over and over again in the false hope that we, the long-suffering partner, will never take that one massive step towards a brighter less painful future.

  146. gordoz says:

    Scottish Skier :

    Can you explain the 16% SNP supporters who are planning to vot NO ?

    Seriously ? WTF

  147. FionaL says:

    This may have been asked before and if so apologies.

    All the various YES websites have some brilliant infographics, unlike the one above they tell the truth, on them. As we are all organising various YES events from street stalls to public debates wouldn’t it be very handy if some of the best infographics could be printed onto board for everyone to set up at their various events.

    As they say a picture paints a thousand words and it would be a good way to allow undecideds to browse amongst them especialy if they don’t feel confident enough to enter into a discussion with someone.

    I’m sure they would be a great investment for all the various branches of YES as they could be continually used throughout the summer and would be good visual draws. They could also be shared in smaller locations to save money.

    Anyone know how to go about this?

  148. lumilumi says:

    @ Scottish_skier

    Now, you, with all your talk about volatility! You’re beginning to sound like some BT bot talking about oil! 😀

    Soon the MSM will expose the volatility of the NO vote and the solidity of the increasing YES vote… Oh, wait…

  149. caz-m says:

    We are so fortunate to have such a talented team on board the Wings Independence Bus.

    We have the likes of the Rev, Ivan McKee, and of course the re-assuring stats of scottish_skier.

    s_s, don’t you even think of catching as much as a sneeze between now and 18th Sept.

    We need you here knocking down the propaganda behind these poll results.

    And explaining them in an easy to understand format.

  150. Re toryhoose.com – give me… er, whoever picked up the domain name someone foolishly left lying around… a couple of weeks to finish it. Some cracking links still exist to it out there. 😉

  151. chalks says:

    I’ve met a couple of them and believe it or not, they don’t think we’d be better off but they like the SNP and how it works hard for Scotland….crazy eh.

  152. chalks says:

    Whoops, that was meant for Gordoz

  153. scottish_skier says:

    Can you explain the 16% SNP supporters who are planning to vot NO ?

    It’s about average, which is 15% recently. Some people voted/vote SNP because they are good. They are most likely devo max people.

    A good proportion of Labour voters plan to vote Yes…even some tories.

    It’s not about the SNP…

  154. Stuart Black says:

    “The middle poster should say Breaking Wind.”

    😀

  155. MekQuarrie says:

    As other comments have mentioned, is Northern Ireland artistically inconvenient..?

  156. Les Wilson says:

    “it will cost us thousands of jobs” Who exactly are US?
    A Westminster gang, who are shit scared. THEY, are the US! not the people who stay in Scotland.
    WE will get a big job boost, as a real government arises, and opportunities will abound.

    ALL the departments that currently deal with Scottish Affairs in LONDON for a start, I guess even if a lot of the staff relocated to Scotland they (US!) will lose many jobs. They will have to reduce big government as they will not be able to pay them or their high pensions.

    Total rubbish!.

  157. heraldnomore says:

    I gather that the poll figures in the Record have been rounded, the reality being 39.3% Yes and 47.6% No, spun as 39 and 48. But in reality the required swing is less than 4.2%.

    I wouldn’t be too concerned about Aberdeen CC sending out a notice with the Council Tax papers. In my experience all circulars from all councils simply serve to add to the pile of recyclable waste to be collected by said council. Has anyone ever read even one of them, anywhere?

  158. Gary says:

    When you take the posters from the point of view of being issued by Westminster, it changes the message completely.

  159. scottish_skier says:

    My own current ‘at face value / what people are saying to pollsters’ (people regularly lie to pollsters about sensitive issues) analysis based on multi-poll trends from late 2012 (No peak, Yes trough with a gap of 21 points+). Full base, i.e. not weighted to turnout:

    37% Yes
    42% No
    21% DK

    Excluding DK:
    47% Yes
    53% No

    ICM wisdom index Feb 17-21st

    We would like you to think one more time about the Independence for Scotland referendum. As a bit of fun, we would like to know what you think the actual result of the referendum would be if it were held tomorrow? Please tell us what percentage share of the vote you think “Yes to Independence for Scotland” would get?

    47% Yes
    53% No

  160. Ciaran McRae says:

    Im pretty sure the use of ‘Breaking Bad’ is trademarked by SONY – http://www.trademarkia.com/breaking-bad-77759779.html

  161. Stuart Black says:

    Michael, thanks for the reminder, I had already contributed, but just shot over and lobbed some more in, as you say, the women are the key to this now.

    Women for Indy: http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/women-for-independence-our-voices-fundraiser

  162. chalks says:

    heraldnomore – It’s not really the point..they aren’t allowed to do this..anyway, the Chief Exec of ACC is now asking all complaints be made to the Standards Commission or Audit Scotland.

    Labour are in for big trouble with this stunt.

    Hopefully it means by elections for all councillors involved in voting it through.

  163. “When you take the posters from the point of view of being issued by Westminster, it changes the message completely.”

    BT are a sham, a fraud, they have no grass roots, nothing like we have, they are a front for the UK Gov, nothing more, They have monkeys here running an office and they take orders from down south, they are a sham.

    All this nonsense about oil production being lower or the deficit may be more, food could be more expensive and all the rest of the crap they come out with is meaningless, People should keep there eye on the prize, Scotland will start of as the 8th richest country on the planet and that’s before we even get started, Happy Daze!

  164. lumilumi says:

    gordoz @ 12.43

    I’m not Scottish_skier, only a Finnish one (with no cross-country skiing this winter as we haven’t had enough snow!!! Normally there’d be plenty of snow on the ground at this time of year but this winter a pitiful 15 cm was the best we got and that’s all long gone.)

    I’m not a polling geek (said in the nicest possible way) like S_S but my commonsense interpretation would be that a lot of people who voted SNP in the 2011 landslide were voting for good governance since 2007, not too sure about that independence thing, but rewarding the only credible alternative to Labour.

    It’s a long time since 2011. I’m sure there are still voters who’d vote SNP for Holyrood (the polls bear this out) but not sure about the indy thing because all the MSM and BBC tell them it’d be a disaster.

    However, I’d see these people as infinitely persuable to indy. They’ve already crossed that first hurdle and voted for SNP. They’re willing to listen to the SNP message. They cannot have been unaware that the aim of SNP is Scottish independence. Maybe they’re just slowly getting used to the idea.

    Meanwhile, increasing numbers of Labour voters are looking at things and coming over to YES. There are even “Tory” YES people. Not to mention the Greens and SSP, who’re doing important work for YES.

    Coming from a different political culture (proportional representation), one of the problems I see in the present UK set-up is that people in the devolved (PR) regions haven’t had the time to internalise a different political culture.

    In Finland, as in any PR democratic, parlamentarian system, a single-party majority government would be shunned as whiffy of a dictatorship. All our governments are coalitions and we view that as a GOOD thing. The main political parties have to agree on a common government agenda so you avoid any one party going too far in any direction.

    Not so in the UK, people are so conditioned to think that FPTP is the epitome of democracy and single-party governments (dictatorships) are good.

    The irony, of course, being that at the moment the FPTP Westminster doesn’t have a single-party government but a coalition and the PR Holyrood has a single-party government. That really scambles the brains of usual political commentators and punters in the UK.

    Sorry, another long post. I seem to launch on these long rants when it comes down to FPTP and PR and democracy. 🙂

  165. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    i believe the polls as much as i believe the bbc, in saying that im a guy who is voting yes while my partner who is not a guy is voting no. im gonna get her to vote yes by telling her im offski if she votes no.

  166. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    if anyone knows of any cheap flats or bedsits available i would be very grateful if you could let me know. my plan didnt go as i thought it would.

  167. Desimond says:

    O/T but 600’000 NHS staff will not get the 1% pay rise.

    Cue “We’re all in it together” patter on Question Time tonight, the same show that had panellists defending bankers bonuses a few weeks ago

  168. Stuart Black says:

    “if anyone knows of any cheap flats or bedsits available i would be very grateful if you could let me know. my plan didnt go as i thought it would.”

    😀

  169. albaman says:

    Rev,
    What”s the new body of sea between us and remaining land of Mini Britain going to be called,”Freedom Straits”?.

  170. Dorothy Devine says:

    Albaman ,The Cybernat Sea or perhaps the other way round the C of Cybernats.

    Previous post has an oops – they’re not their , shuffle off blushing!

  171. No No No...Yes says:

    Spoof or not, here is a reminder for the NO campaign:

    In January 2013, the Electoral Commission published their advice on the Referendum on Independence for Scotland.

    The reminder is contained within Section 5.42, “We recommend that the UK and Scottish Governments should clarify what process will follow the referendum in sufficient detail to inform people what will happen if most voters vote ‘Yes’ and what will happen if most voters vote ‘No.’”

    There you have it, people of Scotland. They recommend clarification in advance of the referendum. What has happened since January?

    The Scottish Government has published their process, in the form of the White Paper, Scotland’s Future – Your Guide to an Independent Scotland.

    We are still waiting on the UK Government to publish their process for the post referendum period. However, some component parts of the disparate anti-independence groups have already put forth their ideas:

    Gordon Brown- United with Labour. A campaign by the Scottish Labour Party, who do not want to seen on the same platform as Better Together, but are united against Scotland’s interests. Gordon, it was all empty promises for the future, we want a jammie piece now.

    Ming Campbell. Well what can be said, other than it was a meaningless contribution. In his deliberations he said there would be a meeting within 30 days after the referendum. What! We need jam before the referendum, Anyway, his party review is not the view of the UK Government.

    What about the Scottish Conservative Party? We are eagerly awaiting an announcement from Ruth Davidson’s Scottish Conservative Party regarding their review. Whilst it may be the considered view of the local branch, it is NOT the view of the UK Government. At best, Raspberry Jam without bits.

    With regard to the forthcoming Scottish Labour Party Conference, I am sure there will be promises for the future, but they cannot guarantee that the National Labour Party will include them in the 2015 General Election manifesto, can they? Maybe no jam at all.

    What about Better Together? Negativity personified. However, their views are not those of the UK GOVERNMENT. Jam with mould in it- bad for you!

    What we are all waiting on is the official view from the UK Government, a coalition of the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats. Is there any chance that they will provide a joint statement at all, far less this side of the referendum? I am not a betting person, but I am doubtful. So, an empty jam jar.

    The absence of any clarification, as RECOMMENDED by the Electoral Commission, an independent body which reports directly to the UK Parliament, would be disrespectful and undemocratic to say the least. It would also mean the status quo.

    Do you really want more of the same, or should you vote yes so we can all take responsibility for the future our families, future generations, and all the diverse people of Scotland.

    People of Scotland, you decide.

  172. starlaw says:

    Who will own the fishing rights to the Freedom Channel?

  173. Foob says:

    It doesn’t matter how much we fume. It doesn’t matter how many well argued arguments we put forward in our YES bubble, ther reality is, the vast majority people out there will vote with only a simplistic and basic knowledge of the truth. Most have no grasp on what it is about. I had a couple of people telling me they would vote no because they would no longer “be allowed” to watch Coronation Street. This is the level of thought the majority of people have put behind their vote.

    The real politik is what we should be watching and responding to. They thought this divorce argument was the way to go back in the nineties and may go with it again. We need to get forward that sometimes a divorce from an abusive partner is good for the spirit and great for our life chances. There needs to be more aspiration. More what we can be and less, what we are losing.

    We need to get out and persuade the working man that we only have one life and wouldn’t it be better to try and take control of our own destiny. To try and be the best we can.

    Moaning about the Better Together achieves nothing as most people aren’t on these sites or reading this stuff. They are watching Coronation Street.

  174. gordoz says:

    @lumilumi, Scottish Skier, Chalks

    Cheers for the heads up – still cant see 16 % as a true figure.

    Honestly have never come across an SNP supporter so to speak who would vote No in such a referendum.

    Its just me nit picking apologies.

  175. hetty says:

    And below the article about Andy Murray’s new hotel and his love for Scotland, ‘Is Britain better off without Scotland?’. Ha haaa.

    Onward and upward here in bonny Scotland!

  176. Peter Mechan says:

    ‘Is it fair to say the “positive case for the Union” is finally officially dead?’

    Fairer to say that it was still-born!

  177. dramfineday says:

    I say we name the new sea the BBC Channel:

    1) They are never “strait” with us

    2) its populated by a few sharks, the odd fat haddie, a few crabbie types and shoals of red herrings

    3) you can sit and gaze at it all day and only occasionally does something interesting happen

    4) they only go through the motions of providing coverage of Scottish issues and that’s usually a load of doo, doo (well it is a family site)

    5) the guff comes at you in waves throughout the day

    So, votes please!

  178. dramfineday says:

    PS In depictions 2 & 3, what are those new islands, just of the coast, near the Mull of Galloway and mid borders all about?

  179. rab_the_doubter says:

    Ciaran,
    I’ve contacted Sony to point out the misuse of their Trademark. Lets hope it ruffles a few feathers.

  180. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Moaning about the Better Together achieves nothing as most people aren’t on these sites or reading this stuff. They are watching Coronation Street.”

    That’s the spirit, Foob! It’s difficult, so let’s give up!

  181. lumilumi says:

    Poor Andy.

    All he wants to do is play tennis well. And well he does.

    A couple of days ago Bitters Tigethers were celebrating him for no saying one way or another (A blow to Alex Salmond’s indy campaign or some such was the MSM headline…) – poor Andy knows he can say naught, because he’ll be f***ed if he says the wrong thing.

    The “British” who celebrated his Wimbledon win (“the first Brit in 76 years”) just cannot quite get over the unpalatable fact that he is Scottish. And not ashamed of it.

    Just a very good tennis player and no other country except the UK would actually knot themselves into these complicated knots to explain why such a world-great tennis player “isn’t quite the thing… Well, he’s not English.”

    Andy Murray doesn’t have a vote in the referendum (he’s resident in London/Miami) and he shouldn’t be dragged into the debate. Let him just play tennis. The one thing he’s really, really good at.

    However, he enthuses about Scotland and his love for Scotland and hope for better tourism and all the jobs and good it’ll bring…
    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-26551974

    Nothing political here. Andy Murray loves his childhood country, he loves Scotland. (Apparently he didn’t grow up in the UK like Chris Hoy.)

  182. john Lyons says:

    These are actually great. They clearly show the true size of Scotland and should go some way to redressing the imbalance caused by those damned BBC weather maps!

  183. Auld Rock says:

    Surely they are referring to the loss of jobs in rUK, LOL.

    Auld Rock

  184. AndyC says:

    Defence jobs……
    Think about those poor sods at Rosyth and on the Clyde, being pushed to vote NO for fear of their jobs.
    I’ve got news for them….your jobs ARE going. no doubt about it. When the carriers finished, that’s it….whether you vote yes OR no.
    “We’ll close Portsmouth and keep the Clyde shipyard open”….Pull the other one!
    The pride of the ‘British’ navy, Pompy,Nelson,trafalgar and all that imperialist shit!
    The only chance for survival of Scottish shipyards, what’s left of them, is to vote YES.
    Wake up! Open your eyes! Think about it!

  185. Garry says:

    I think what these posters are actually meaning is that if we leave the UK, then there’ll be fewer jobs down there !! 700,000 jobs down south are reliant on Scotland….so they are true….in a skewed kinda manner.



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