“Sod it”, we thought, “let’s compile a list after all“.
Clearly we’re not impartial judges of how the No campaign is being conducted. To assess its performance with any degree of fairness, we must instead take the widest possible sample of opinion from those on its own side. Here goes, then.
The ‘No’ Campaign Has Sunk Further Than the Jeremy Kyle Show
(Huffington Post, 16 April 2014)
“The ‘No’ campaign’s approach to discouraging Scottish independence is akin to an abusive bully threatening a fleeing partner. It has been so shamelessly threatening that at times I have wondered if it is part of a covert plot to drive Scotland away. As we have got closer to the September vote, the arguments against independence have got more desperate and apocalyptic.
It is highly insulting to Scotland, therefore, when politicians and others with a vested interest try to manipulate voters in a way that wouldn’t even work on drunk cartoon socialites in a ‘reality’ TV show.”
The SNP, UKIP and our disunited kingdom
(The New Statesman, 16 April 2014)
“Rather than making the positive case for the Union, Better Together has run a negative campaign characterised by dry and technocratic attacks on the SNP over the currency, North Sea oil and EU membership.
In so doing, it has only enhanced its opponents’ appeal as an optimistic, anti-establishment force. If the No campaign is to avoid defeat in September, it must respond to the clear and consistent desire in Scotland for greater autonomy by outlining concrete cross-party proposals for further devolution.”
It is the English who should be on their knees, begging the Scots to vote ‘No’
(The Independent, 15 April 2014)
“In the entire global history of the political campaign, has any been more misconceived, wretchedly executed and potentially self-defeating than the one designed to keep Scotland within the United Kingdom?
Until proof is found of a Eugene Terre’Blanche run for mayor of Soweto on the Apartheid Now And Forever platform, the assumption must be not.
With every week that passes, the No campaign’s once lavish and seemingly impregnable lead evaporates. And as it dwindles, its scare stories continue to deluge the debate in the curious belief a) that Scotland, a proud and bellicose nation, is a wee, timorous beastie; and b) that if you double down on a tactic of transparently counterproductive idiocy for long enough, it will metamorphose into one of purest genius.”
The perils of pessimism
(The Economist, 12 April 2014)
“After the speeches were done, at a recent rally in Calderglen High School for “Better Together”—the cross-party campaign to keep Scotland British—there was time for questions. They were mostly the same.
The inquisitors, typically retired and articulate, asked the assembled politicians—including a Conservative cabinet minister and a serving and former Labour MP—to make a “positive case” for keeping the 307-year-old union intact. “Why are we better together?” said one.
This was awkward. It was bad enough that the venue, in East Kilbride, on the southern edge of Glasgow, was cavernous and the audience small. But what was most dismal was the lack of a good answer to the question.”
Lord Robertson has taken negative referendum campaigning a step too far
(Daily Record, 9 April 2014)
“It is widely believed the doom-laden message punted too often by the unionist campaign – that if you vote for independence the sky will fall on your head – is driving the don’t knows into the arms of Alex Salmond. But Robertson seems to have taken this negative campaigning one step further.
He doesn’t just think a Yes vote would be a disaster for all of Scotland. He thinks it would be a disaster for all of western civilisation.”
Lord Robertson is trying to bully Scots into voting no in the referendum
(The Guardian, 8 April 2014)
“As well as losing the pound, Scots are told they will be stripped of everything from the BBC to EU membership. It’s like a loveless relationship in which a partner is told that, if they walk out, they will have their clothes and DVDs taken away, lose all their friends, and be kicked out on the streets.
This establishment campaign is self-defeating, and has left many Scots feeling as though the choice is between hope and fear.”
Darling’s rattled performance will increase No campaign anxieties
(The New Statesman, 6 April 2014)
“As a politician, Alistair Darling is renowned for his calm and reassuring manner (most famously during the financial crisis). But interviewed on The Andrew Marr Show this morning on Scottish independence, he appeared distinctly rattled.
As I tweeted during the programme, he sounded like an embattled football manger giving a post-match interview after a bad result.”
Charles Kennedy brands Better Together campaign as “stupid”
(The Sunday Post, 30 March 2014)
“The anti-independence campaign was under growing pressure last night after being labelled ‘stupid’ and a ‘disaster’ by MPs on the pro-Union side.
The Better Together campaign was already reeling from a newspaper report quoting an unnamed UK Government minister claiming currency union with an independent Scotland would happen despite Treasury claims to the contrary.
But yesterday former Lib Dem leader Charles Kennedy attacked Labour’s referendum pitch of ‘Salmond versus Scotland’, describing the message as ‘stupid’.
And Falkirk Labour MP Eric Joyce also hit out at the wider Better Together campaign, describing it as a disaster and claiming it is ‘treating Scots like inferiors and fools’.”
Campaign to save the UK in crisis: Summit called by pro-Union chiefs after support for Scottish independence grows
(Daily Mail, 28 March 2014)
“Leaders of Scotland’s No campaign are holding crisis talks today as they battle internal splits and rising support for independence.
The Scottish Daily Mail can reveal that Better Together board members have called a crunch meeting to draw up a strategy for the final months of the referendum fight.
It is understood that campaign tactics will be dramatically reversed and a more positive message will be adopted as part of a major advertising drive.
The U-turn comes after a series of opinion polls found that support for the break-up of Britain is growing, while hard-hitting messages about the disastrous consequences of a Yes vote appear to be backfiring.”
Now even David Bowie’s ganging up on the Scots. Is this how to stop independence?
(The Independent, 20 February 2014)
“The next part of Osborne’s plan is probably to announce that if Scotland becomes independent, it won’t be allowed to keep its zoos, so the day after the vote it’ll have to release tigers and bears and crocodiles into the streets of Edinburgh. But it won’t be able to ask for help because it won’t be allowed to use our language, or any of our letters, so they’ll have to communicate by barking.
Nor will Scotland be allowed to share our orbit round the sun, and Osborne has it on good authority that NASA won’t let it join another one so it’ll have to find a different solar system but if that’s what Scotland wants, it’s up to them.
At one point, for a change, the No campaign got bankers to tell the Scots they were being silly to think they could be independent as well, because there’s no one your average Glaswegian likes to please more than an English banker.
But the No campaign seems to think that the answer is to send more disliked people to be even ruder. Next week Eric Pickles will walk round Paisley naked with a tattoo of Edward II on each buttock, telling voters ‘you’ll get no more of this if you leave England you know’.“
With friends like these the Union has no need for enemies
(The Spectator, 6 February 2014)
“An argument that suggests, implicitly, that, sure, you could vote for independence but if you do you’re stupid is not an argument that is going to prevail. Insulting or threatening the electorate is a bold move and one that causes more trouble, really, than it is worth.
Indeed, it is juvenile and hackle-raising stuff. The kind of thing liable to provoke a sod-you backlash just as much as it is likely to scare folk into voting No.
Worse still it reveals the extent to which Whitehall and Westminster still cannot grasp that this is an argument about a concept or an idea much more than it is a question of dismal accountancy.
Better Together needs a story about the future as well as the past and that narrative needs to be based on something good, not on gloomy predictions of mass unemployment after independence.
I have plenty of issues with the Yes campaign and the SNP and they offer us plenty of guff too but at least their imbecilities, most of the time, look to a sunny future rather than endless drizzle.
Between them, Westminster and Labour are making an almighty hash of this campaign.“
Tories fear Scots will break away
(The Times, 29 December 2013)
“Tory critics are increasingly alarmed by the cross-party anti-independence campaign led by Alistair Darling, the former Labour chancellor, saying it is too negative and lacks momentum.
Crosby is understood to have suggested that the campaign is so feeble that the future of the UK is in doubt. In a surprising assessment, he is said to have warned that polls giving unionists a strong lead are wrong — and that victory for Salmond in September is not only possible but likely.”
No campaign is branded as ‘amateur’
(The Sunday Times, 8 December 2013)
“Senior Labour figures are demanding an urgent overhaul of the Better Together campaign to save the union, with some supporting Tory claims that its figurehead Alistair Darling is ‘comatose’ and branding its staff ‘amateurs’.
The former chancellor was undermined by briefings from senior Conservatives last week amid indications of concern in Downing Street about his leadership of the No campaign.
Some have also condemned Better Together’s strategy for securing victory. Although polls show support for a Yes vote trailing by at least nine points, Labour MPs have warned privately that voters are being turned off by the No campaign’s messages.”
The clock is ticking – Better Together needs a positive plan
(Left Foot Forward, 16 September 2013)
“Without the single united prospectus for a devo-max Scotland, Better Together will ultimately flop and sleepwalk to an Alex Salmond victory.
Time is ticking fast, and a plan is desperately needed to save the union and establish a sustainable future for Scotland in the union.”
Scottish independence: Ditch No campaign – McLeish
(The Scotsman, 8 July 2013)
“Labour should abandon the cross-party Better Together campaign, former first minister Henry McLeish has said as he accused the unionist group of using ‘fear and scare tactics’ to defeat the SNP.
Mr McLeish said the anti-independence campaign was ‘treating Scots like idiots’ as he claimed Better Together was working alongside Westminster in attempting to frighten voters about independence.
He also said that Better Together was involved in a ‘constant haranguing of Scots’ in a campaign he claimed is dominated by Westminster and London-based politicians.
Mr McLeish said: ‘There are fear and scare stories such as that we’ll have passport controls at the Border and won’t have access to blood transfusion supplies. Next they’ll be saying there will be seven years of famine in an independent Scotland and that aliens will land here.'”
Better Together Campaign Must Up Its Game
(Huffington Post, 21 February 2013)
“When I think about it, I’ve yet to come across any real argument as to why people should vote ‘No’ come 2014. It seems to me as though every argument the Better Together campaign has put forward is simply to poke holes in what Yes Scotland say and do – but never setting out themselves why the Union is indeed better together.
‘No’ campaigns seem to be relying on the fact that people will automatically want to stick with the status quo, that citizens able to vote will automatically vote ‘No’ unless persuaded otherwise.”
Indy’s leap of faith is only issue
(Sunday Mail, 17 February 2013)
“The No campaign needs to start explaining why the Union can make Scotland better not why independence will be a terrible thing as Scots, mired in a swamp of endless negotiations, wander between our mud huts borrowing cups of woad.
If, as their campaign claims, we will be better together, they need to start telling us why.”
In fairness to Blair McDougall and his chums, what the evidence above shows is that if there’s one thing you certainly can’t accuse them of it’s not giving Plan A a fair shake.
We’ll keep this updated, so do send in your own favourites.
Hmmmm … seems conclusive 🙂
Blair McDougal’s my favourite (always seems to work on Strictly)
Stu… to first time viewers, that may seem like a large and comprehensive list of examples of the ilk… to those who have been visiting more than a fortnight, it is no more than a few grains of sand in the Sahara.
Bugger (sorry Panda)… visiting ‘this site’ I meant. LOL
Daily Mail, 16 April 2014:
The pro-Union campaign has already been mocked for warning that ‘forces of darkness’ would welcome independence. But Defence Secretary Philip Hammond stunned observers yesterday by declaring that a separate Scotland would be more vulnerable to threats… from space. … The bizarre episode will infuriate Better Together campaign leaders who are desperate to present a more ‘positive’ case for the Union.
So it’s only the BBC that are providing a positive case for the union then?
Oh, wait…
I keep telling Blair McDougall to stick with his positive message of avoiding the destruction of Scotland and western civilisation.
I am pleased to see that this tuba is not for turning.
“… [Scotland] won’t be allowed to use our language, or any of our letters, so they’ll have to communicate by barking.”
Which is why I regularly bark in my back garden. It always draws a smile and a wave from my neighbour as he gets back into his house. I’m going to bark some tweets to Blair to cheer him on.
@Alba4Eva
Scratches furry ear and chews a bamboo cheroot?
“The ‘No’ Campaign Has Sunk Further Than the Jeremy Kyle Show”
Ouch, that’s a bit vicious.
“Now even David Bowie’s ganging up on the Scots.”
So those attacks from space they were worried about were from Major Tom, Ziggy Stardust and their army of spiders from Mars?
This is all very good but there are no comments on Mr. MacDougall’s abilities as a tuba player.
Och well, I’ll provide my own:
Blair doesn’t know his brass from his oboe.
I agree that the “Better Together” campaign is lack lustre to say the least, my observation/point is with this in mind and with the polls showing a “Better Together” lead of between 5%-12% in the most recent polls, why are we not seeing more movement towards the “Yes” side reflected in these polls? I make these comments as someone who will vote for independence. Thought’s on this please
What this shows is how far back criticism of Plan A has gone and the lack of change or movement to change tactic months and months later. With only about five months to go of effective campaigning political parties themselves wouldn’t leave it this late to change tack in an upcoming election. I think Better Together have been abandoned to their own devices and it looks deliberate (that’s a good thing).
The winds of change is in the air.
Seeing that all together gives me a weird feeling, that maybe the media aren’t as biased as I think? Tell me I am wrong!!
“Stu… to first time viewers, that may seem like a large and comprehensive list of examples of the ilk… to those who have been visiting more than a fortnight, it is no more than a few grains of sand in the Sahara.”
Get linking, then 😀
All the critiques cited condemn a piss-poor Better Together campaign.
None suggest Scotland has a sovereign right to genuine powers, or needs more powers, or even deserves a few more powers. The authors are solely annoyed their team are sneering and chucking stones, not playing cricket, which is why spectators are booing.
You can read into them all – a few state it plainly – the ideal democracy for Scotland is so much guff – but hey, they want to play fair… a contradiction, or what?
Better Together Campaign Must Up Its Game
(Huffington Post, 21 February 2013)
“When I think about it, I’ve yet to come across any real argument as to why people should vote ‘No’ come 2014. It seems to me as though every argument the Better Together campaign has put forward is simply to poke holes in what Yes Scotland say and do – but never setting out themselves why the Union is indeed better together.
‘No’ campaigns seem to be relying on the fact that people will automatically want to stick with the status quo, that citizens able to vote will automatically vote ‘No’ unless persuaded otherwise.”
This particular quote,sums up he union and Better Together perfectly.
It’s all “save the union!”
What bloody union?
The whole movement for greater democracy issues from the immutable fact the union is a 300 year-old delusion.
Just in from the pub.
Debate; Hammond’s hysteria.
Dae these basturts think we Scots are F*@@ing daft?
The Huffington Post article was written by Will Black who is a writer with a background in anthropology and mental health care.
Well there you go then, he is well placed to offer a critique on BT.
Seriously folks, the best comedy writers could not produce this.
I think the damage is done for the No campaign. just what can they say now that would give that warm all together Great British feeling?
Osborne, then Cameron with his team, and now Hammond day trip up here deliver an edict and then decline to communicate with us. The bland look on Hammond’s face as he ghosted away from media questions was telling.
For Scots inclined to weigh up the pros and cons:
The economic case in support of Independence is crystal clear and proven.
The case for ridding Scotland of Trident in philosophical humanitarian terms and in economic terms is clear.
If a majority of Scots nevertheless vote against independence it will not take long for all of us to experience the democratic and economic consequences.The vote will be close, one side frustrated that Yes lost and the other side realising their folly. Not a recipe for happy families.
Just realised the media are only attacking BT because they *are* biased in favour of the union, it’s just that BT is making such a terrible job of selling their cauld kale they are rounding on the messenger.
Phew 🙂
Have to say that this week I have come across 2 better together types, neither seemed to be able to write one word of English and if I may nor Scots. I was unable with one to really understand what he/she, though my betting was on he, was saying other than alicsammin is a ****.
So I think I like your list much better.
Think it’s a bout time they re-branded to “RUKOK”, in expectancy of the inevitable.
From The Japan Times,
Fortunately the ludicrous nature of the scare tactics and threats being imposed on the debate by those determined to control Scotland for their own self-interest is unraveling by the day.
http://tinyurl.com/qjyhtgg
The “union,” that is, the supposed benefits of a loaded Westminster UK government, is a monstrous misapprehension held by a majority of Scots, or least unquestioned by them throughtout the 20th century.
I have no doubt two world wars help the population think life safer allowing Westminster MPs to dictate fate. After all we “won,” didn’t we?
We are not in the hands of Germany or Japan.
The combination of the near collapse of western capitalism together with perpetual wars in the Middle East – endless deaths and mutilations and torture – corruption in public life, governments spying on their own citizens and blind antipathy to climate change solutions – convince people in Scotland something stinks in the State of London.
@Stuart Muir – Stuart I don’t believe any poll conducted by anyone else except WOS. Unfortunately don’t trust anyone else.
I think, along with many others, that we could possibly sitting almost neck and neck – and that’s what’s scaring the hell out of them
Pardon me if I’m being obtuse, what is the Tuba thing with Blair?
I bet our Henery (July 2013) never thought that Better Together, aka Hammond, would take him up on his “aliens” suggestion. 🙂
Hope BT keep up the good work and deliver a resounding yes vote.
We really should be grateful to Westminster for its largesse towards us over the years.
No really.
Heh, frankly, what else can they do?
None of the positives in Scotland’s relationship with the rest of the UK are predicated on Westminster maintaining political control over Scotland. Basically there is no answer to “Why are we better together?”.
To win, they had two choices at the start, they could have tried to scare everybody into voting no, or they could have added devo max to the ballot and the horse carrying the latter has long since bolted.
No other plausible strategy exists, all that remains is to ramp up the fear in the hope something sticks, that’s probably why its becoming increasingly ridiculous.
@vellofello
Couldn’t agree more.
There isn’t a damn thing BT or Westminster could say I would believe at this point. They’ve spent two years demonising us and denigrating Scotland in general. After two solid f**king years of lies and misrepresentation I’ll crawl over broken glass to get to that polling station on September 18th.
Scotland deserves better, has earned and paid for a better future than one run by those lying, self serving, careerist thieves. I may have it in me to forgive what they’ve done to the electorate since this campaign begun, but I’ll never forget.
The campaign could have been so different. A time to exchange ideas and ideologies. An opportunity for Westminster parties to paint a future instead of seek to divide and conquer. To show faith and trust in the Scottish electorate instead of take any and every opportunity to run down, deny and suppress.
What little trust I had left in our Westminster representatives at the beginning of this campaign has well and truly left the building at this point.
Been out of the loop for a while but concerned that the buoyancy of a couple of weeks ago appears to be diminishing. What’s going on – or is it just the constant negativity and scare-mongering by BT getting through?
Alan Mackintosh,
What is the Tuba thing with Blair?
A recurring daft joke inspired by the cartoonist Greg Moodie.
http://gregmoodie.com/
This could get funny now,what is left, except actual aliens arriving on Earth any day now.
Got to love the completely circular logic here. Stu’s mantra is that almost the entire mainstream media is biased against independence, but when they put anti-Better Together articles up it becomes “look, even the biased mainstream media think Better Together are doing a terrible job!”
I mean you’ve linked to an article by Louise Wilson from Glasgow Uni here at the Huffington Post under an intro that implies she’s ‘on the No campaign’s side’. I’m sure she would take that as an insult to put it mildly. The idea that simply appearing on the Huffington Post (which has about as loose an editorial policy as it gets) automatically makes her “on their side” is pretty ludicrous.
Maybe (and I know this is a bit of a long shot) the mainstream media are capable of putting up objective articles? Maybe they’re even capable of putting up articles that are biased in favour of independence?
Helpmaboab, Ta, had seen it there before but wasnt sure if there was a previous reference.
Stuart Muir. Have a look at some of Scottish Skiers comments regarding polls. Then you gain some clarity about what they mean and how they relate to one another
After all this and all the other drivel coming from the No campaign, I’m beginning to be concerned what I’ll think about my fellow Scots if there is a No vote.
Perhaps I should say, North Britons, or new-English.
Well, what with all this ‘Alien Attack’ stuff from BT if we vote for indy, is it not time for a wee vid along the lines of War of the Worlds, but updated, lasting a couple of minutes and ending with the voiceover:
‘This has been an anti – independence broadcast on behalf of Better Together, UKOK. 🙂
I don’t understand why we are telling them to get the positive message out, isn’t there a saying about never disturbing your enemy while he is making a mistake.
Let us hope BT’s incompetence continues and they stick with their Plan A.
For months my fear is that they finally accept they have got it horribly wrong and come up with a more successful (from their perspective) Plan B. However, for the life of me, I can’t imagine what they could actually come up with to sell the Union!
As someone else noted above, I too am puzzled as to why the polls do not show a lead for the yes vote. It is not that I trust polls: I don’t. But they are pretty much what we have to go by, apart from personal experience. In view of the complete lack of a case for a No vote (as I see it) I would have thought that Yes would be well in front, even if that was only based on lies from no voters who are embarrassed to be associated with the campaign being conducted on their behalf. If I were a no voter I am certain I would deny it thrice after Robertson’s cataclysm and Hammond’s spacey threats, and Greening’s “won’t someone think of the children”
Who knew that Henry McLeish was a prophet? His
‘Next they’ll be saying there will be seven years of famine in an independent Scotland and that aliens will land here.’
Was an exact prophecy of the UKOK’s SoD (and how apt that acronym is) statement yesterday that iScotland would be attacked from space.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
“Stu… to first time viewers, that may seem like a large and comprehensive list of examples of the ilk… to those who have been visiting more than a fortnight, it is no more than a few grains of sand in the Sahara.”
Get linking, then 😀
Are these links acceptable for starters then? ;P
http://tinyurl.com/ot85wce
Major Western powers like the US and France would have “particular concerns” over such a move which “would be unacceptable for Nato”, according to the group – led by Admiral Sir Mark Stanhope, former first sea lord and chief of naval staff – who have sent a letter to Mr Salmond.
http://tinyurl.com/p6bj8cb
Scotland would be “a new small nation in an uncertain world” in need of allies, but Nato “could hardly be expected to welcome a new member state whose government put in jeopardy the continued operation of the UK independent nuclear deterrent”, Sir Mark said.
http://tinyurl.com/maqo4vj
It is understood that Nato officials said it might be possible to allow Scotland to start fast-track talks – but in a blow to Salmond’s anti-nuclear strategy, the Scottish delegation was also told that no new member would be allowed to join Nato if that state had unresolved military or territorial disputes with other countries.
http://tinyurl.com/ksgc8j9
Ministry of Defence officials are exploring the idea of retaining a Scottish naval base as sovereign UK territory if there is a yes vote in next year’s independence referendum.
http://tinyurl.com/nz3a2w4
A furious behind-the-scenes row has prompted Downing Street to disown a proposal to designate as sovereign UK territory the Scottish naval base that hosts Britain’s Trident nuclear deterrent, in the event of Scottish independence.
Maybe they’re even capable of putting up articles that are biased in favour of independence?
Really? British newspapers?
A recommendation in favour of autonomy from a British editorial? Like war poets that love war they are almost impossible to find. Some newspapers stoop to publish an article from the pro-independence side to show they not a complete bigots, but that’s about it.
There’s nothing from the No side acknowledging Scotland has a right to self-goverance.
What we get is astonishment Scotland thinks of running its own affairs. It just isn’t cricket – England’s national game. They are losing the game not because Scotland has been sorely misused, rather because they’re playing badly.
Are we to feel compassion because the No campaign is ham-fisted, playing everything on Westminster’s terms?
Photographer:
‘Nice and tall for me dear, back straight…that’s it, now let’s pull that stomach in a little…a little more? Oh, it won’t go any more…that’s fine…dignity dear, pride…imagine that ermine tickling your ears…that’s it…lovely.’
UK OK
UK KO
Henry’s obviously blessed with foresight:
“Next they’ll be saying there will be seven years of famine in an independent Scotland and that aliens will land here.”
And then eight months later, what do we get?
“Go-alone Scotland faces threats from space”
McLeish for National Seer!
Yes indeed we have all of this going on , but no matter what the BT group have been doing wrong, their supporters are beginning to get their car stickers on. I have noticed two in the last three days and I have as yet not seen one YES sticker. Personally, I would be happy to display a YES window sticker on my car , but having ordered them on two occasions now and received a bumper sticker instead, I am sorry to say that they remain in my filing cabinet until nearer the time , as I run a business and some of my clients might be put off by a rather obvious bumper sticker. Some might say that I should have the courage of my convictions, but I wonder how many other YES supporters are in receipt of a sticker that they never asked for , sitting elsewhere than on theirs cars.
@Stuart Muir
I recommend the Scot Goes Pop website (see link in the WoS sidebar) for a good overview of what all the polls are doing, plus, as someone said, scottish_skier’s insights are useful (and he made a nice graph showing trends and projections a few months ago) (any update on that s_s? I have it on my desk at work and show it to sceptics).
UKOK……..mmmm just rolls off the tongue. sounds like something else.
again they just don’t get it. They needed a campaign that made Scots feel good about the Union. They needed to be told what benefits they brought to the Union, not the other way around. They need a reason to stay. Even with all their bleating, they keep framing the argument along the lines of Scotland as simply being the poor wee nation relying on handouts. Even when trying to reach for a positive argument themselves, they simply can’t pitch the union as nothing more than a welfare cheque.
Even when being this “positive” outlook, they doing a hatchet job on Scotland’s reputation within the union, that is just as reckless and dangerous as Project fear. There is no way that a No vote would be in Scotland’s interests. It will be presented as nothing more than a wretched grab for welfare by the UK press. What follows then ensures that it is the the Union that is the biggest loser. It also ensures that those who vote yes, will never accept “British” identity as long as they live. A no vote would lead to a huge level of anti-British sentiment.
Bettertogether – they destroyed the village to save it.
Live stream Tommy Sheridan at Cumbernauld Town Hall
Started 1930
Independence Live event.
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/events/2860802
.
Could this all be a a case of group psychological projection from UKOK?
Could make a good thesis.
Blair McDougall thought the win was easy. A few simple scare stories and it was all over, even if they lost a bit of the early lead in the run in.
So why waste good money. He had an open cheque book from the Tories so the majority of his team have been working on Labour’s election plan for 2015.
The Tories have been paying for a team working to defeat them not independence.
As for the polls and optimism – ask anyone on the stalls / open meetings / door knocking. It’s going our way and if we keep up the groundwork and keep working hard it will be closer to 60% YES on the day.
Remember Margo’s speech at the first March and Rally “We only have to win over ONE person EACH to gain independence”.(Polls at <30% then)
Stay positive and read the material, and keep up to date. Knocking down a scare story or correcting a false statement should be done with confidence as soon as it is made.
See the prize – think of the change possible for our country.
The interesting bit for me is WHY the campaign went so negative so early. I think it all relates to a pretty spectacular mistake at the start- the 2 option question. I can understand what caused the BT folk to deny devo max a place on the ballot- a complete lack of any forward planning of what would be in devo max and a desire to avoid fighting on 2 fronts (v Yes in indy ref and v London in devo max negotiations). So they ruled it out (although to be fair they are now making an honest go of pretending to offer it without giving any meaningful detail), but then what?
You now have 5 million people wondering why to vote against more powers and you have nothing positive to offer them, so you must warn them of real or (more likely) imagined dangers if they go the other way. That’s all you have so you go at it hard.
Had they came out and offered devo max with the promise of “more details” in May 2014 or whatever, we would probably be seeing nowhere near as much of a surge in the yes campaign’s support. People would probably even forget they were promised more detail and flock to the polls with their pencil firmly routed towards no. Thankfully, BT is run by absolute idiots, which means we will be an independent country in 2016.
That picture says it all – about Yogi Blair
A man of the Empire (Biscuit ?)
When we get a mighty Yes, Nobel Peace Prize for Eck n Dave I reckon, as an example of democracy in action. Then jola can say some nice things too.
Blair can play a flute or tuba or whatever in a dark room.
More hypocrisy from team BT. Apparently it’s shameful that Islands’ powers are being “stripped away” to Edinburgh, but ok that Scotland’s powers are stripped away by London. This is up there with Margaret Curran (IMHO a worse politician than JoLa) and what she half learned from Nelson Mandela.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-27043974
Positive case for staying.
Before the referendum, all london financial institutions are sold to a conglomerate of wealthy arab nations for wildly astronomical cash, trident is sold to the highest bidder, westminster is shut down and trimmed to just a few of each party representing each new (larger) constituency as a joint venture to make them representative to ALL constituents views, forcing them to work together and ending punch and judy politics.
House of lords shut down and left to get on with it.
No more expenses.
No more nukes.
No more HS2 or other vanity projects.
Throw Scottish assets into the mix and suddenly we have a joined up UK where everyone shares the wealth generated from above.
The Uk could be one massive retirement zone without having to be in their 70’s with all this sudden shared wealth.
Vote no for a fair and equal union, you know its not as ridiculous as some of the official plans !!
Anyone else with me?
How about this little nugget from Alastair Darling when launching Better Together.
He compared independence to buying “a one-way ticket to send our children to a deeply uncertain destination”.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18572750
“Next they’ll be saying there will be seven years of famine in an independent Scotland and that aliens will land here.” from July, 2013.
Very prescient, with the ‘fact’ there’ll be no supermarkets if Scotland votes ‘Yes’ or the food will be so dear we’ll all starve to death.
Aliens. Mibbe from the skies as Hammond warns? But what would they be attacking and invading for? Woad?
Fech, what next from Bitter Together? No more rain? Oxygen is British and the supplies will be cut off?
Jock McDonnell says
“Blair can play a flute or tuba or whatever in a dark room.”
Dja think?
heres how its really done
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qIL2ie-VE
And more from Darling at the Better Together launch June 2012,
“No way back” he warned.
Where did it all go wrong Alastair?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-18581670
Only a brass musician would appreciate the virtuosity of this guy , but trust me, this guy is the dogs bollocks! 🙂
Stu what’s happened to the Facebook icon !!!
@john bottcher
BOC…oxygen apparently IS british, maybe they will cut us off “total recall” style?
caz-m – I have one of BT’s ‘One way tickets to an unknown destination’ printed to look like a ticket, which I cherish. Tried to get more, but the BT stall which was handing them out, had packed up and left by the time I returned. ;-(
Big Al – it’s where it’s always been, on l/h sidebar.
looks like 32red have stopped taking bets on yes. oddschecker
@macart 6.19pm
Well said. Couldn’t have put it better myself. I thought from the outset of this campaign there would be a good and representative Independence debate by the Unionist parties and the MSM to give the electorate the positive things that Scotland has for being part of the UK. But no, they reverted to type which was being patronising to us Scots and being devisive in nature to devide and conquer, as GB has done throughout it’s empire building history. To do this to us Scots is unforgiveable. In adopting this approach they are alienating a great number of people who would have voted for the union and are now turning against it.
They will only be able to look back and realise the mistakes they have made in the event of a Yes vote.
Never disturb your enemies while they are making mistakes. (Napoleon)
Guys it’s all going to plan – we are MEANT to vote for Independence – they want us gone but with their hands clean. Scottish Independence is a win/win for everyone… well everyone who matters that is… not for Labour though who will be bent over and rooked by it…
I mean just look at the halfwit in that picture – THIS is the guy they get to run the campaign to save the union they so love??? I mean REALLY???? Then they get Darling to join in… FFS DARLING!!! the useless bawbag that EVERYONE KNOWS was asleep at the wheel during the largest financial disaster the UK ever faced in over 300 years of union!! They were 3 hrs away from pulling the credit lines from most major UK banks thanks to that t1t!!
And they let him be the spokesperson..????
C’mon – they want us GONE!
I wouldn’t laugh too much yet over Hammonds comments. There are real aliens and they are a threat, I know, I was taken against my will by them last year and was anally probed before receiving an implant.
Every time my wife switches on the microwave oven I wet myself and forget who I am for about half an hour.
I’m voting no cause alecsammin can’t protect me. What is his action plan for defeating the Grey’s? Too many unanswered questions for me!
@E ROBINSON,
If you send your address to Rev and he is happy to send it on to me I’d be more than happy to send you 2 car window, stickers, free of any postage charge.
You’ll have to wait around 10 days though, I’m offshore now and Btw I do display mine 🙂
Disagree, I think the NO campaign is saying all the right things…..for us.
One of the most illuminating things to come out of this debate – a revelation to some – is the self-depiction of Scotland’s Labour group as craven, slave to Westminster’s policies no matter who is in government, not only loyal, but to the severe detriment of Scotland and its people.
They actually state they would rather a united Britain than genuine democracy for Scotland. If Scotland remains the poor relation, so be it.
They were supposed to be the natural party of the people yet happily show themselves to be the party of the party.
Watch out Gordon’s about,
it’s the “Big Hitter” himself coming out next Tuesday to frighten those who are not already frightened. No more details.
His spokesman said,
‘He is giving a major speech next Tuesday and will be delivering a series of lectures on Scotland’s future, the dates of which will be announced shortly.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2606217/Former-PM-Gordon-Brown-no-plans-quit-parliament-years-election-despite-describing-ex-politician.html
“Next week Better Together will launch its first nationwide advertising campaign… The posters will feature ordinary Scots… The first of these billboard posters features Lora Bedford… and Zak Campbell-Lochrie… Both are students at Edinburgh University and are part of Better Together’s Youth Rep programme.”
http://archive.today/6BA9o
—
“Edinburgh Labour Students. Meet the team… Secretary ~ Lora Bedford”
http://archive.today/Pr2Dd
—
“Edinburgh Labour Students… So as of last night, ELS has a new committee!… Vice-Chair, Zak Campbell-Lochrie”
http://archive.today/g2dgk
—
Do “ordinary Scots” go on London Labour Student committees?
Did someone not say last week that the NO Campaign has “still to get started”. As if to say,
“wait till we really get started, there will be no stopping us”
I have had a look about for the quote, but cant find it.
Anyone else hear it?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/apr/16/scottish-referendum-woefully-unprepared-yes-vote-impact Very vote No Guardian’s panic stations too with Project Fear and McDougall.
“One weakness of the warnings is that too many of them have been delivered by Conservatives. The nationalists’ always frame the independence argument as a battle between the Scots and the Tories. In a very real sense, Alex Salmond is fighting this campaign against Margaret Thatcher. When David Cameron says he loves Scotland or George Osborne warns about the currency, or Philip Hammond, just this week, says serious things about defence, the yes campaign’s response is to monster the Tory. The polls show the response works. The no campaign needs to balance worse-apart with a lot more better-together.”
How’s that for “most misinformed unionist ligger of the day” award
New superb vid…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYho2xrIojY&app=desktop
@caz-m
Yes, I think that was in response to one the recent polls early last week.
“Did someone not say last week that the NO Campaign has “still to get started”. As if to say,”
was it not a journalist, sevrin carol?
O/T, so apologies Stu. It’s almost certainly been brought up before, but i’ve been out the loop, and the country for the winter so… Talking to a soft No recently, the type taken in by the media driven Salmond is Beelzebub guff, I was unable to win them over to the good guys side, but managed to get an abstention promise out of her.
Just a thought, but to get another % point or two our way, maybe a line of attack with the softies such as ‘if you can’t bring yourself to vote for Evil Eck, then don’t vote’ might bear some fruit.
FAO those with contacts within the SNP. Another thought burling round my brain for a while, and a real vote winner (as well as just good social policy). Do away with the useless ILA voucher, and spend the cash on giving every school kid in the land a voucher to cover the cost of one sports activity a week. £5/week would cover it. How many lose out because they can’t afford to participate ?
A win/win situation.
Findlay Farquaharson
It was Professor Adam Tomkins of Better Together.
Blair mcShit can be destroyed by publishing its lickspittle rantings in support of the Iraq war and tony blair from the letters pages of the Herald. A truly evil entity. Rotting in Hell for all eternity is too good for things like it.
Has he been on a diet ?
http://bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/653-brave-blare-blocks-cybernat-snooper-scheme.html
@TheItalianJob
The BT/Westminster strategy is saddening and ultimately self defeating. With the opportunity and the electoral lead that they had, it seems madness to constantly run down a valued partner, but their choice.
Radical Independence were out and about in Castlemilk tonight and here are their results.
YES 344
D/K 291
NO 125
Now can ANYONE from MSM please explain to me why your poll results always show NO in the lead. Time after time after time I am seeing results like this from Radical Independence. They are talking to real people on the door step and getting real results. The vote on 18th September will result in THREE things!
1) YES will win with a significant majority
2) MSM, BBC and all other mainstream media will end up with egg all over their face
3) Better Together will become a permanent laughing stock of Scottish politics
Sorry if anyone’s posted already
Martin Kettle – Guardian
“Scottish referendum: the UK is on shifting sands – we can’t assume survival
A yes vote is becoming a real possibility – but we are woefully unprepared to deal with the psychological impact of Scotland rejecting the union”
http://tinyurl.com/qfnzqfy
Well, it seems the UK media press is getting edgy and distinctly annoyed.
However …there is one thing that I noticed in all of them; yes, they are correct that the case from Better Together and the UK Parties has been truly dreadful. Totally and completely dreadful!
But not one of these papers has answered the question themselves. What is the actual case for keeping Scotland in the Union? Even they themselves can’t answer it! An alluding answer to a most perplexing question! The conundrum locked in a puzzle.
All of them! They have had 3 years to tell us, and still they trot out the same weak points; we’re British; We fought in WW2 together; We had an Empire; We have a shared heritage; We share the Queen; Our families are spread all over the islands; etc, etc, etc.
Well, so do (or did) Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the Irish, and they’ve got on with it just fine and dandy.
The truth is …what is excuses are trotted out are just not good enough! The reason it is not good enough, is very simple. The union has served its purpose. The ‘British Empire’ came about with the union of Scotland and England, and from it, a quarter of the world lay under Britain’s control. That was the ‘Union’. That was the Empire.
The Empire has been waning for more than a 100 years. All those nations from the far flung corners of the world were the first to go (Australia, Canada, New Zealand).
After August 1945, it was the Asian countries, followed by the African states. All the time, the sphere of Empire receding; getting closer to Europe; getting closer to Britain.
When Hong Kong was handed back in 1997, the last real image of Empire was gone. Apart from Gibraltar and the Falklands, only the home nations remained.
And here’s why September the 18th will be a deeply and truly historical moment for Scotland and England …England especially. For it really will be, the last ‘day’ of that Empire. One last day of that Union. A Union that created the fading memory of Empire.
On the 19th of September should it be a ‘Yes’ win, then it is truly over. The ‘Empire’ will be truly over.
Sure, we will still be tied to England for another two years, but those two years will be spent dividing assets and ownership of land, companies and well …just about everything.
The cracks in the Union have been there for a long time. It’s only been exasperated and speeded up in teh last 30 years by Thatcherite policies and New Labour politics.
It for these very reasons as to why the Unionists are struggling to come up with reasons for remaining together. What they hold up are images that no longer matter; a certain British attitude, the Empire, the War.
What we will always have is the Queen, our shared values on fairness and social equality, a British commonality, and freedom to move around the isles, but at the end of the day, Scotland is heading in one direction, London in another, and the rest of the country looking on more frantically wondering where they stand in all of this.
All things come to an end eventually. That is a fact of nature. Some things die, and some are reborn. In our case, Scotland is ready to flourish on the world stage like never before.
The ending of the Union was bound to happen at some point. It just happening now in our time.
I’ve just read an update about Radical Independence canvassing Castlemilk tonight. If you exclude the undecideds then the vote for YES becomes 73% 🙂
I think their main problem is that they are a cross-party campaign where the parties involved spend all the rest of their time claiming that the other two would be a disaster in government – whether or not their policies are that much different.
In particular, the leaders of the UK government can’t be seen to campaign on the issue as they are too unpopular. So one party of the 3-party campaign has to rely on its supposed enemies to get ‘their’ message across.
It’s not surprising that they’re having trouble.
‘Vote to stay in the UK! You’ll be governed by those other parties we say are ruining the country’
Arbroath, This means that by applying msm theory to that result, 344 will vote yes and the rest don’t support YES so must by definition support No..416. therefore as they’ve been stating for months now, NO is way out in front… I feel sorry for them.
@ Arbroath 1320.
Cyber – rats! I’ve got 10 quid on at 7 to one that it’ll be 50 – 55%.
Should have gone for a straight Yes.
Should have stayed out of the bookies altogether!
gerry parker says:
@ Arbroath 1320.
Cyber – rats! I’ve got 10 quid on at 7 to one that it’ll be 50 – 55%.
Should have gone for a straight Yes.
Should have stayed out of the bookies altogether!
erm…what can I say…don’t suppose sorree would be an help to you here gp? ;P
@Alba4Eva at 9.01pm
Brill vid. Thanks for posting.
For months and months now pro Union supporters and media commentators have been deriding the negativity of the No campaign and urging them to switch to a more positive message. When are they going to learn that THERE IS NO POSITIVE MESSAGE!
@X_Sticks at 9.41pm
@heedtracker at 8.58pm
@Arbroath 1320 at 9.39pm & 9.47pm (take note)
Yes read it and the following extract is a bit of caution to the Yes campaign on canvessing polls. Not saying it will happen but still let’s not be complacent.
“Voters who would never admit in public to agreeing with Cameron or Osborne may nevertheless log their warnings in private – especially in a Scotland where it is so completely not cool to be a unionist. In the 1980s and 1990s, pollsters identified a category of voters who would not admit to voting Tory but who nevertheless did so in large numbers when the moment came. It is not impossible that something similar – closet no voters – now exists in Scotland.”
I think the answer to your question James123 is on 19th September when YES has huge majority win. ;P
Arbroath 1320. Its simple, polling does not interact with the people of Castlemilk and therefore does not reflect what is found there.
Betfred and William Hill now offering only 2/1 for independence, not long now until its even money.
@Alba4Eva
Brilliant Vid
@Marcia.
A big well done, it was the professor, I think he was on Newsnight.
Alan Mackintosh says:
Arbroath 1320. Its simple, polling does not interact with the people of Castlemilk and therefore does not reflect what is found there.
Ah just as I thought they are selective with the questionees to ensure they get the answers the questioners want to hear. Boy I hope we can find one huge egg for 19th September. Maybe it will be an extra terrestial egg that slaps all those MSM and BBC types in the face. NOW I understand the warning from Hammond. 🙂
I understand what you’re saying TIJ but I still think that voters who say they are voting YES are very unlikely to change their minds to NO on the day. If anything I’d dare suggest the opposite is happening. As a result of all these polls showing NO in the lead, still, people are still rather coy about coming out for YES. They will therefore say their voting NO, believing the polls, but intending to vote YES on the day. 🙂
Well I suppose it was only a matter of time before Labour raised their head above the parapet again and here they are. Margaret Curran has announced Labour’s five pledges to women in Scotland and here they are.
http://tinyurl.com/otl4zn5
To avoid looking at the photo here are Labour’s five pledges listed below.
1) Introduce 25 hours of childcare a week for every three and 4-year-old and 15 hours a week for all vulnerable two-year-olds.
2) Give firms agreeing to pay the £7.65 per hour “living wage” a 12-month tax rebate of up to £1,000 for every low-paid worker who gets a salary rise.
3) Enact new laws to end “discrimination” against the estimated 5,000 women a year in Scotland who go on maternity leave but never return to work.
4) Tell companies – or force them through legislation – to publish pay gaps between male and female employees in their annual reports.
5) Introduce a 50% quota for female membership on public boards in Scotland.
I love the last one, Labour playing the “anything you can do we can do better” game. The only problem for them is as usual it won’t work. I think the S.N.P. will have a hard enough job achieving their 40% level I just can not see Labour ever achieving anything like this 50% level. Any one sense a wee bit of “we have to better those nasty Nats and I don’t care if it’s unachievable” syndrome here. 🙂
There is just one other wee thought I’ve had about this *ahem* announcement by Curran today. I wonder if this is not just a ploy by Labour to try and win back voters to NO because all the polling evidence seen and yet to be seen is showing that the neck and neck race is now less than a hair breadth between the camps and Labour are looking at yet another drubbing, via Better Together, in the face.
Labour, the party who will say anything, do anything, promise anything just to get back into power and then immediately shelf all said pledges!
@Alba4evr 9.01,where did you dig that vid up fae ma man,
noo theres rippin the pis n rippin the pis n thats a pure
deed brilliant pis ripper,onward n upward.
@Arboath 11.11,Its been a long day ma heids winding doon
noo but on the 1st point 15 hours child care for ( vulnerable 2yr olds ) ah would love a explanation on the use of word( Vulnerable ).
I’d love to help you out there ronnie but as far as I can gather what Labour MEANS by vulnerable and WE understand the meaning of vulnerable to be are two entirely different definitions. 🙂
The best I can come up with is that vulnerable families will be those unlucky enough to be 2yr olds under a Labour government in Holyrood with any of the current crop of Muppets in charge. 🙂
They cannot yet bring themselves to admit that the reason BT haven’t extolled a legitimate case for the union is not because they’ve failed to explicate it, but because there is no legitimate case to be found. They need to perpetuate the myth that there is a positive case for as long as they can – presumably at least as long as the Yes vote is in the minority, then they’ll have an excuse to change their tune – but they’re not going to take an iota of accountability for their own failure to find that positive case.
And that’s another thing: all of this means nothing in terms of politics.
“We’re British” – and we’ll be British after independence, whether you mean geographically or politically (Home Office confirmed Scots would retain their British citizenship after Indy).
“We fought in WW2 together” – as JLT says, so did Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the Irish, as well as the French, Soviets and USA, yet they don’t seem to be that interested in surrending their sovereignty to London.
“We had an empire” – I don’t see France, Spain, Greece and Morocco deciding Rome or Byzantium/Constantinople/Istanbul should run their affairs because it precided over the longest-lasting empire in history. Hell, half of Italy seem to be going that way anyway, Venice in particular.
“We have a shared heritage” – as we do with France, the Low Countries, Ireland, Scandinavia, and countless other countries – but again, no great clamour for London rule for them.
“We share the Queen” – we and 15 other independent nations.
“Our families are spread all over the islands” – and there are twice as many expat Brits abroad as there are migrants in Britain.
None of these things would change after independence. Not one. We would still be British. We would still have fought together in WW2. We would still have been part of the British Empire, shared heritage, shared monarchy, and have families throughout the islands.
The UK elite is still stuck in the mindset that the only power that matters is military might and political clout. That’s why we got that ludicrous cartoon on the politics show, where Scotland’s “international influence” would be “diminished” because we wouldn’t be represented in the UK’s sprawling fleet. They cannot conceive that there are other, better, more useful ways of playing an important role in the world than ruling the waves or manifest destiny.
Scotland has been doing that for hundreds of years. Why is it that Scotland, a wee small nation in Europe, has the global brand and acclaim that few other such small countries have? Switzerland is famous for clocks, pocket knives and banks; the Netherlands are famed for art, tulips, windmills and clogs; Belgium for chocolate & waffles. Scotland? Kilts, bagpipes, whisky, haggis, inventions, science, exploration, economics, philosophy, romanticism, music, half of Canada & America. And even now, Scotland contributes a ludicrous amount to the world – energy, technology, transport, culture, etc.
England, too, has affected the world in ways beyond empire and conquest: they just have to realise that some of the things they can contribute may be more useful than shoving their weight around with faulty ships and overstretched forces.
JLT – you’ve got it in one. Britain is more an empire than a country, and with the exception of the odd rock in the Atlantic, is reduced now to just the ‘internal empire’ where it all began. And without the external empire to exploit, there is nothing keeping the internal empire together except sentiment and hollow threats.
5 months to go and things are neck and neck. End of May and things will pick up big time.
Prepare for the end of the Union.
Aye,but Mr Darling says the polls are shifting towards a NO vote.
Just back from Germany (forces). The papers yesterday were still Choca bloc with scare stories. I didn’t notice the articles above.
The good news is I had tea with 3 x wife’s relatives non of whom new of this site or researched online. 2x yes votes (male 55+ and female 25) and 1x undecided (yes leaning 55+). Warmed my heart somewhat. They also said that the was a general and instinctive yes vote amongst their social groups. (In Wishaw area).
Keep the good work up!
@TYRAN
Those Edinburgh Labour students….. I love the irony in them having a gallery picture at a Pensions rally where theyre holding up banners saying “Why must our children pay?”
Labour Tuition fees policy okay with all you Labour kids?
Here’s a new one for you Stu.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/joyce-mcmillan-is-the-no-camp-killing-the-union-1-3380584
The biggest mistake that Better Together made was not to bully Scotland.
No the biggest mistake they made was to overlook the fact that half a million Scottish Labour voters will vote no simply to get rid of Cameron, the Tories and their values of greed and power.
:-0 for vote no please read vote yes
And another:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2609186/Darlings-pro-union-campaign-dismal-Senior-Tories-alarmed-former-Labour-Chancellors-lacklustre-performance.html#ixzz2zWAhm1Jb