"A new and awful low in Scottish politics" – Margaret Curran

Wings Over Scotland


Voters less ordinary

Posted on June 10, 2014 by

The Times has a front-page lead this morning on the “Better Together” rally held in Glasgow yesterday, at which the official lead campaign group debuted its new “No Thanks” slogan. The article makes an interesting claim:

“[Alistair Darling] was the only politician to speak at the Better Together rally in Glasgow. All the others were ordinary men and women who had volunteered to talk about why they were campaigning to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

They were led by Claire Lally, a mother from Clydebank, with a child with serious health problems. She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

Well, that all seems legit.

After all, it’s a different spelling to THIS Clare Lally:

clarelally

“Clare Lally is to join Labour’s shadow cabinet as their first ‘Carers Champion’. The role will see the 31-year-old, who has no previous political experience, advise Johann Lamont’s party on the challenges facing Scotland’s 660,000 carers.

Clare, of Duntocher, Dunbartonshire, said she was delighted to help influence key policy. She said: ‘I have always been a Labour supporter. But to actually be able to contribute and help make a difference is a better opportunity than I could have asked for.'”

Duntocher is also more than three miles away from Clydebank, and it’s probably a total coincidence that two women in Dunbartonshire have almost the same name, severely disabled daughters and close links to the Labour Party. And the odds of her being the same Claire Lally who’s the daughter-in-law of former Labour Lord Provost of Glasgow Pat Lally and has a husband called Derek must be astronomically high.

lallylamont

We’re all but certain that this ordinary mum definitely ISN’T the one who’s part of what the Record calls “the political elite”, a member of the Scottish Labour shadow cabinet, an experienced media performer or generations deep in the Glasgow Labour oligarchy and prepared to lie on command about the NHS for political ends.

After all, that would mean that “Better Together” were misleading people by presenting hardcore political activists as normal everyday folk, and that can’t possibly be true.

.

EDIT 10.12pm: Despite much confusing and contradictory information, after further investigation we’re now more or less sure that Clare Lally is NOT in fact related to Pat Lally. However, in the course of that investigation we’ve also discovered that she’s a member of Labour’s National Policy Forum 2015, which we’re pretty darned certain comes awfully close to any reasonable definition of being a “politician”.

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507 to “Voters less ordinary”

  1. Alan B says:

    Is there anywhere I can find a concise list of individual lies, half-truths and deceptions that BT have put in the public domain?

    Someone could probably get a PhD thesis out of it.

  2. eezy says:

    Bordering on fraud!!!

  3. eddie says:

    Shocked? Nope….

  4. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    I think the astroturf needs mowing.

  5. Robert Roddick says:

    Not a very good start for an aspiring politician apparently not realising that the NHS in Scotland is independent.

  6. Gordon says:

    “She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    Is that the same, already separate Scottish NHS that has nothing to do with the rest of the UK’s, apart from a convoluted and punitive funding calculation based on the English NHS’s budget?

  7. Jim Thomson says:

    I sooo glad you’ve been utterly rational about this Rev. I mean, I couldn’t believe it either.

  8. heedtracker says:

    Oh what a tangled web BetterTogether weaves, when teamGB journos practice to deceive. Why do these bizarre characters even bother lying to Scotland like this day in day out, is another ukok mystery.

  9. Bawheid Bragg says:

    Robert Roddick says:

    “Not a very good start for an aspiring politician apparently not realising that the NHS in Scotland is independent.”

    Funny, Gordon Brown made a similar mistake in his speech recently. Is he what you’d call an aspiring politican?

  10. Jings! Whit a coincidence.

  11. StuartF says:

    Better Together, no thanks! Cant even hide the most basic of BS

  12. Castle Rock says:

    Well and truly filleted.

    Yes grassroots campaigner to BT supporter:

    “Would you now like to hear the truth?”

    “No thanks”

    Keep chipping away, even the diehards are beginning to see the truth.

  13. Nana Smith says:

    Just what labour needs another plank to foist on the electorate. Geez just look at Lamont to see where the party is heading. Hopefully oblivion

  14. ronnie anderson says:

    Nae wonder wee Duggie Alexander wants a reconciliation

    service the C of S should abandon any plans they have,its a

    farce,like holding the Funeral Service & burial before the

    persons deed.

  15. Bay Rok says:

    I know Clare Lally well as a great campaigner for carers – she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life. I have never asked her whether she is related to Pat Lally because it would be totally irrelevant. What is the point of this article? Its just muckraking – aren’t we supposed to be leaving that kind of insinuation to the tabloid media? I would be most obliged if you could withdraw this article.

  16. TheGreatBaldo says:

    In a similar vein did you catch the STV piece last night on the grassroots with the ‘never been involved in politics before’ solicitor from Edinburgh…..who as the voiceover advises us…..”hopes to become a Labour MSP”.

    There is no end of Labour careerist who will happily pretend to be an ordinary member of the public to climb the slippery pole.

    Almost as funny as Jenny Marra demanding Alistair Darling debate with David Cameron..:-)

    Seriously has Labour never heard of the internet ?

  17. eezy says:

    Tweeted, Facebooked, re-tweeted….
    Yhis is too good….
    YAASSS.
    Grassroots ma erse!

  18. gavin lessells says:

    Just been reliably informed that a debate took place on friday at Ross Hall School involving JoLamont and Humza Yusaf.The kids apparently wiped the floor with Lamont. Outcome of debate 60/40 for Independence. Just a wee cheery up!

  19. MajorBloodnok says:

    Shame on you Rev. Pat Lally’s reputation for integrity, financial probity and open-handedness are nothing she should be ashamed of. I also heard he had his own business recycling brown envelopes.

  20. TheGreatBaldo says:

    “Bay Rok says:”

    No doubt she is…..but the event she spoke at was billed as ordinary members of the public and not politico’s.

    It’s Labour and Better Together’s hypocracy not Clare/Claire that is the target of the piece.

  21. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:
    I’ve no doubt she’s all you say. I’m quite a nice guy too.
    She should be asking her bosses why she’s been stitched up?

  22. Macart says:

    They really can’t help themselves at this point can they? Misleading and misrepresenting comes as easily as drawing breath to them.

  23. David McCann says:

    Labour in Scotland and the NHS should always come with a health warning.

    OT. I see good old Johnston Press are in trouble again, with share price plumetting.
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/09/johnstonpress-mediabusiness?CMP=ema_546&commentpage=1

  24. Red Squirrel says:

    Good on her for campaigning for carers but she should be aware that the only way to protect our brilliant NHS Scotland is to keep it as far away from WM as possible.

    Labour is as much a friend to the NHS as the Tories are – only the Scottish govt has pledged to keep our NHS in public ownership.

  25. mogabee says:

    Labour liars, pants on fire!

    Are there NO decent folk left(?) in Labour now?…

    Silly me, silly question!

  26. Grouse Beater says:

    Just when you think they’re long gone…

    Pat Lally, another Glasgow machine pollytishun who ran Tammany Hall as if his own fiefdom, a disaster for its people and its architecture. East, west, London’s best.

  27. Nana Smith says:

    @TheGreatBaldo

    Yes I saw the stv piece and my first thought was here we have yet another aspiring labourite lying to the public. Handing out leaflets full of misinformation.

    So if she was to stand in an election I for one would be shouting liar.

  28. Ken500 says:

    Oh NO, not again

    With cuts to the Scottish NHS funding already on the way from Westminster. Scottish budget cut £1.3Billion a year since 2011 Budget by Westminister. ‘The something for nothing society’ declaration. What are these people thinking of? BT not likely. Another PR Con job.

    Westminster Con/Dems elected to protect NHS/Education and cut the deficit, have done the opposite. Labour/Unionists are failures.

  29. Dave sharp says:

    Your last link “experienced media performer” has been pulled.

  30. tehklev says:

    @Bay Rok:

    I’m sure she’s very nice, as are the handful of folks I know who wish to maintain the status quo, but she’s an adult and knows exactly what she’s getting into, especially with that family background.

    It’s like I’m watching “The Thick of It” every day.

  31. Ken500 says:

    Anyone who uses their disabled children for political advantage is suspect.

  32. Capella says:

    @Bay Rok
    The point is to expose the lies in the MSM designed to manipulate voter opinion and “fix” the vote. That is what the 4th Estate is supposed to do. Luckily, WOS does it for us.

  33. Grouse Beater says:

    “She said she’d do all she could to protect … the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    Two responses:

    That’s a great reason to vote Yes.
    And
    Why exploit your daughter for political ends?

  34. Bay Rok says:

    I have just asked Clare Lally and she is NO RELATION TO PAT LALLY. Please remove this article immediately.

  35. Grouse Beater says:

    Ken said: Anyone who uses their disabled children for political advantage is suspect.

    Snap! Like leaving Downing Street for the last time wife and child in tow…

  36. Ken500 says:

    Stop Press

    Stu buy up the Scotsman. Do them a favour, they will pay you to take it away.

  37. chalks says:

    Watched Sky News last night, had Pennington on against Natalie McGarry, thought she did OK, is it just me, or do these guys need to get a bit more blunt?

  38. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok said: I have never asked her whether she is related to Pat Lally because it would be totally irrelevant.

    Farage’s mistress must wish she had your integrity around her.

  39. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Bay Rok ive got a bridge in London that i can sell you and by the way im a nice guy 😉

  40. Craig P says:

    she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service

    You can have one or the other, but not both! Unless of course you think that privatisation will be the salvation of the NHS.

  41. Bay Rok says:

    Can I also ask those above who have linked to this article to take those links down. This is potentially actionable and we need to behave as a disciplined force with strong ethical standards, not a rabble of muckrakers.

  42. Grouse Beater says:

    I think ‘Bay Rok’ should read ‘Northern Rok.’

  43. ronnie anderson says:

    @Bay Rok, who are you to demand anything of this site,

    Claire/Clare Lally is a member of the labour party, whitch

    health service helped her daughter Scottish HS / NHS England

    exploiting disabled family member for your own political aims

    is not a nice woman,deceiveing the public she deserves all

    she gets,& I never mentioned her husband, father in law,or

    daughters, should be ridiculed JUST HER.

  44. Rod Robertson says:

    Excellent stuff again Stu ,we have to keep exposing these dishonest people at every opportunity.

  45. Onwards says:

    I wonder if she read the SNP proposals to boost the allowance for carers?

    It would be a nice touch for the SNP to directly pledge the savings we will make from defense and trident into a firm commitment to something.
    Carers, childcare, the NHS, schools etc

  46. Cath says:

    “she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life.

    I’m sure many politicians and campaigners are perfectly nice people. But if she is – as she should be – aware that the NHS in Scotland is independent, and the one in England is rapidly being privatised (and that Labour supports the two being more joined up after a NO vote, in one-nation Britain) then she is lying to voters. Pure and simple.

    She is perfectly welcome to make a case that, as a carer she’d prefer NHS Scotland and England joined up and privatised – Cameron supports that despite having had a disabled son, for example.

    But make that case rather than lying.

  47. Castle Rock says:

    Don’t agree Bay Rok, the lies and spin should be highlighted as often as possible.

    Clare Lally may well indeed be a fine person but she aint no ordinary punter, she’s part and parcel of the Labour anti independence machine and has been caught out red-handed.

    Why is Clare not out and about campaigning against the privatisation of the NHS in England if she is so worried? This will do more damage to the funding of the Scottish NHS than anything else but she doesn’t highlight that does she?

    No, Clare would rather try and protect her Labour pals in their Westminster seats than protect the vital services of the Scottish NHS.

  48. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok can you provide evidence of your assertion that this Mrs Lally is no relation to Pat Lally?

  49. caz-m says:

    Rev, you are on fire. two bullshit stories in a row are “Nailed”. Brilliant.

    Keep takin the porridge Rev. (Scott’s of course.)

  50. Grouse Beater says:

    If Ms Rok thinks so much of the Scottish NHS that she confuses it for the English NHS then she is free to take her child to England and make use of their health service on the presumption she thinks it superior.

  51. Livimo says:

    Does every ‘Clare’ in Duntocher look the same, or is it just another remarkable coincidence?

  52. Training Day says:

    As others have said, the point of the article is to expose the lie that this person is an ‘ordinary woman’. She clearly isn’t.

    Oh, and for a ‘rabble of muckrakers’, look no further than BT’s cohorts in the Mail, Times, Express etc.

  53. Cath says:

    Why is Clare not out and about campaigning against the privatisation of the NHS in England if she is so worried?

    Or against Westminster’s welfare reforms that are hammering the sick and disabled, as well as carers. The ones brought in by Labour and carried on merrily by the Tories.

  54. Bay Rok says:

    Yes, I have known her for several years, and she has just told me so. She has no reason to lie about it anyway, and the names are different. This is a straightforward case of mistaken identity and shoddy journalism, and anyone can check the facts if they wish to.

  55. mogabee says:

    No one cares who Ms Lally is related to.

    Agree fully with others here that dishonesty re SNHS and ENHS is unacceptable and needs to be challenged.

  56. JLT says:

    Rev …serious kudos!

    Honestly …how the hell did you pin this altogether? Are you using some form of dark arts?

    If you has been born in Soviet Russia, I think you would have made a formidable member of the KGB. It’s frightening the information you can lay your hands on.

    But anyway …brilliant mate. Seriously …just brilliant.

  57. Gillie says:

    I would imagine that NHS Scotland will be a tad upset with the not-so-ordinary Clare Lally.

  58. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bay Rok, I would like to know what Legal Training you

    have,& what part/parts are legaly actionable (

    misrepresentation what ? ? ? ).

  59. Decko says:

    It is fraud cause if you research her on scotlandspeople you wil lfind that since 1855 there has only been two Clare Lally’s born in Scotland, one in Coatbridge in 1975, the other I fear is this one born in Dumbarton, Dumbarstonshire in 1969.

  60. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It is fraud cause if you research her on scotlandspeople you wil lfind that since 1855 there has only been two Clare Lally’s born in Scotland, one in Coatbridge in 1975, the other I fear is this one born in Dumbarton, Dumbarstonshire in 1969.”

    To be fair, IF she’s Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law, she (almost certainly) wouldn’t have been born with the surname Lally.

  61. Kitty says:

    Oooh, the one time being from Clydebank pays off – I have two mutual Facebook friends with her. Going to get my snoop on!

  62. caz-m says:

    GLASGOW
    CITY
    COUNCIL
    LABOUR
    PARTY

    When you hear that organisations name, you immediately relate it to corruption and brown paper bags.

    Also poor housing, poor health and poor education.

  63. Grouse Beater says:

    How many Clare Lallys exist in Scotland with a disabled child?
    (Shum coinshidensh – editor)

  64. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:

    10 June, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Can I also ask those above who have linked to this article to take those links down.

    I suspect it might be too late….

  65. Bay Rok says:

    Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children , according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    Peggy is survived by her husband Pat, her sons Robert and Derek, their wives Jennifer and Claire, her grandchildren, Catherine and Sarah, her sister Fredda and her aunts Peggy and Chrissie.

    Now, can you please withdraw this article and all links to it before the No camp are all over it and take this site down?

  66. Free Scotland says:

    The machinations of the gutter press are enough to drive you doo-lally.

  67. Fi Hall says:

    Funny how Alistair Darling was the only politician to bother to speak at the rally. Did he speak or did he just mumble?

  68. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok you do know you’re making a fool of yourself without producing proof that this Claire isn’t related to Pat Lally and isn’t just ‘an ordinary voter’. We’re all being kind to you but take a look , if you haven’t already, at The ‘Wings’ Twitter page. I think the evidence is overwhelming no?

  69. It was the Scottish NHS that helped clares child,lets not get that confused with the English one.Im fed up of explaining to folk on the doorstep that the NHS has ALWAYS BEEN DEVOLVED to Scotland,Agggghhhh!

    Have to say that i also have a disabled child,but would never use her for any political gain.

  70. Kitty says:

    This is the lady with the £40,000 ramp outside her house. Gossip travels fast in Clydebank. Here’s a message I got about the ramp when I talked about it on Facebook.

    “Not that I’m a gossip, but I thought you would like a bit of back ground info…The House is in Duntocher. My Aunt is involved in the local council, and apparently, she owned her own house, which she sold because she couldn’t afford to convert it to be disabled friendly. She asked the WDC for that particular house, even although it had the 3 flights of stairs, and complained to get the ramp put in, She has been in the paper with Alex Salmon and apparently she sits on some board for parents with children that have disabilities and advises the SNP now.”

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.218824878132474.66764.135542186460744

    http://www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/aroundthetown/articles/2011/05/18/413494-first-minister-meets-clydebank-supermum/

  71. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok: Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children, according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    In that case you are taking the Record at face value?
    More fool you.

  72. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m astonished!

    However, it is no great surprise that the Labour machine will feed on willing Labour activists. That aside I’m sure Clare is a nice person and has battled for the best outcomes for her daughter.

    What was far more interesting about yesterday was what Gordon was saying about the Better Together campaign being seen as bullying and confrontational, that Cameron should debate with Salmond, that Yes is making inroads into the No vote and that the No parties need to present a formal agreed Devo Max proposal before the 18th.

    I can imagine there was some face palming in BT HQ at much of what Gordon said…especially from the non-Labour elements of the organisation. Indeed some of the more vociferous No proponents on CIF were less than complementary about Gordon’s ability to work as a team player and those vehemently opposed to devolution now see the distinct possibility of the evil AlicSalmin getting pretty much all he wants through Devo Max.

    I can’t see the three parties agreeing a sensible coherent package in the next 98 days though so the danger of a genuinely attractive Devo Max upsetting the apple cart looks like an outside bet. Fortunately they didn’t let Gordon loose soon enough and a wee bit of mayhem in their ranks and yet another re-launch can’t be bad for Yes. :)

  73. James S says:

    Came across a good definition of how the BT campaign sums things up:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/sSACCl6

  74. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok it’s an easy question to answer is the Claire you know the Claire in the pictures?

  75. TD says:

    Bay Rok
    The only important point here is that the BT campaign have lied by representing Claire Lally as an ordinary punter when she is in fact a member of the shadow cabinet. That is something that we all have a right to know and it is incumbent on us to point out this lie to others, especially the DKs. Why? Because if they are lying about this, then they are probably lying about other things.

    Claire may be a nice person and we can all admire her dedication to her daughter. But on this matter, if she is aware of the deception, she is doing a bad thing. The organisers are just cynical liars who would exploit Claire’s situation for their own ends and they should be held in contempt.

  76. jacksloan2013 says:

    There can be no stronger sign that Better Together are attempting a quick catch-up than the new wee badge launched yesterday. Running behind on all fronts they have finally issued a “No Thanks” badge. How many we will see on lapels? Will it even become a window poster? Must have cost a fortune at Saatchi and Saatchi to come up with this!

  77. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    We demand that Clare debates with Claire. We surely have the technology.

  78. ronnie anderson says:

    @fairy from the heath, there’s a nice bridge in Arizona

    that ah hud ma eye on, any chancity you could pit a bid

    in fur me.

  79. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:

    10 June, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children , according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    You shouldn’t really be putting this up, should you?

  80. Grouse Beater says:

    Jacksloan said: BT have issued a “No Thanks” badge.

    Who would enter a pub wearing one?!

  81. Sandy Milne says:

    Typical Labour Party nepotism and corruption. The Labour Party has morphed into the very people it was setup to counter in the first place. This is just the same as hereditary titles and land passing down the generations just another example of corrupt power.

  82. James Sneddon says:

    TD – Claire is a labour activist she knows exactly what she is getting into. She knows the Scottish NHS is separate and how it is funded. This tribal hatred of the SNP has blinded her to what is the best outcome for our NHS and her family.

  83. Ravelin says:

    From a quick reading of the articles quoted and some supplementary Googling I’d say the following,

    1) This Claire Lally is PROBABLY NOT the daughter-in-law of Pat Lally as the timings just don’t “click”.

    2) The Claire Lally from yesterday probably is the one mentioned in the Daily Record article from 2012.

    From an Evening Times article on thier website…

    Claire Lally, who ­described herself as a mum from Clydebank, hosted the event.

    She said: “One of her twins born prematurely, seven years ago required extensive care from the NHS. I decided to get involved with Better ­Together to ensure our NHS remains the best in the world.”.

    Note that the spelling of Claire is ‘correct’. Also note that in DR article from 2012 her kids were 5yrs old and in ET article from today/yesterday they are 7yrs old!

    I note with interest too that Bay Rok only claims she ins’t related to Pat Lally, not that she isn’t the person from the Daily Record article in 2012. Care to comment on that Bay Rok?

    Oh and just to be clear, I’ve no doubt Claire is a very nice person and a dedicated and caring mum. That’s not what the article is about, it’s about the deceit of BT putting her forward as an ‘ordinary voter’. Also, if you openly put yourself forward as a ‘host’ for a BT event then you open yourself up to legitimate scrutiny.

  84. Rod Robertson says:

    O/T but as a football man Stu think you might like this ,it could mean a guaranteed YES Vote too coincidences ,or what?

    All things that happened in 1966, Austria won Eurovision, Betis was relegated, Milan & Man U did not qualify for Europe, Deportivo promoted to 1st division, Atletico wins the league, Madrid wins the CL, … all of them also happened in 2014. Now I bet you are hoping for another 1966-2014 coincidence .

    A guarantee of YES I would suggest if history repeats itself

  85. DaveyM says:

    Sorry,Stu. Duntocher is actually part of Clydebank.

  86. Davy says:

    Is this yet another falsehood from the “better together” campaign being thrown at the public as something genuine.

    It may just be me but to use a disabled member of your own family or to allow them to be used in such a lie, frankly is sick.

    The No campaign has no shame of any description.

  87. Cath says:

    That aside I’m sure Clare is a nice person and has battled for the best outcomes for her daughter.

    She may well be an amazing person, caring for her disabled daughter while also fighting for the rights of carers. And she may well be in the Labour party for all the right reasons, and a great addition to them as an adviser to the shadow cabinet on disability rights.

    That’s not the point. The point is she was presented as something she isn’t – a grassroots, non-political campiagner, when clearly she isn’t.

    Unless there’s been some huge mix-up and the Claire Lally at the rally yesterday actually IS a different one, with a striking number of similarities in name, location, disabled daughter etc. Surely if Rok knows her, that should be easy to establish from the photos.

  88. Cath says:

    “I decided to get involved with Better ­Together to ensure our NHS remains the best in the world.”.”

    And that statement kind of argues against her being a decent person truly standing up for the rights of the sick and disabled. Because with her political background, she cannot not realise it’s a lie.

  89. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This is a straightforward case of mistaken identity and shoddy journalism, and anyone can check the facts if they wish to.”

    Really? Where can we check these facts? Point me to the proof and I’ll happily correct any errors, although the article DOESN’T actually state that Clare Lally is related to Pat Lally.

  90. Dorothy Devine says:

    We could have a ” No Thanks to No ” badge made up.

  91. heraldnomore says:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, another rally:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPIFaW9bOW0

    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zdcrqehHs

    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylv_kyS3T9E

    So that’s Robin McAlpine, Mairi McAllan, and Alan Bissett, in the rain. Which rally would rather have attended?

    Rev, I think I’ve avoided all the embedding stuff, apologies if it causes havoc.

  92. bigGpolmont says:

    Oh look I was just surfing the web as you do and the Herald obituary to Peggy Lally (Pats wife)sprang out at me. She was a lovely lady I met her a couple of times .It appears that Pat and Peggy had two sons Robert & Derek who were married to
    Jennifer & Clare. Google Derek and Clare images and there are
    lots of pictures of the happy family.

  93. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This Claire Lally is PROBABLY NOT the daughter-in-law of Pat Lally as the timings just don’t “click”.”

    The timings do work. The Herald obituary of Peggy Lally identifies her granddaughters without saying whose daughters they are. It’s dated May 2007 and Clare Lally’s twin daughters were five in Aug 2012, so it’s entirely possible they could have been born after Peggy Lally’s death and therefore wouldn’t have been mentioned in the obituary.

    As I’ve said, the article doesn’t actually state that Clare Lally is related to Pat Lally anyway, but I’ve as yet seen no evidence proving they’re not.

    And of course, as some have noted, nobody has for a moment disputed Clare Lally’s qualities as a mother or a human being, merely observed that it’s highly dishonest for her to be presented by BT as an “ordinary woman”.

  94. Stephen says:

    How low are BT gonna get if this is true I’m astonished at what they’ll do an say it’s starting to feel like victory no matter what the cost.

  95. Taranaich says:

    “She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    As has already been stated by others in the thread:

    1. Why does protecting the Scottish health service require saving the United Kingdom, especially considering the two health services are already separate?

    2. Why is she still with Labour? Hell, why are ANY socialists still with Labour after all the party’s worst have done to the people of the UK?

    I know Clare Lally well as a great campaigner for carers – she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life.

    You know that old phrase, “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”? There is something even worse: “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    I don’t doubt that Ms Lally – and many other Labour supporters – are sincere in their campaigning and beliefs. I even believe that she thinks Labour is still the party of Keir Hardie and Tony Benn. But the party has turned. The vampire of neoliberalism has sired a soulless husk in the body of the old Labour. It is a shell. A façade. A deception. And the sooner Ms Lally and others realise that, the better.

  96. Doug Daniel says:

    Bay Rok – stop with the concern trolling. The pictures speak for themselves – someone who we are being told is just an “ordinary” mum who’s never been involved in politics before is actually someone who has been involved with the Labour party for at least two years. That’s the story here.

    It is obviously Ms Lally’s prerogative to have a (presumably paid) position in the Labour party – there are plenty of party activists involved in the Yes campaign after all – but it is very dishonest of the No campaign to pretend she doesn’t have a history of involvement in politics when she very clearly does. Non-politicians don’t tend to have pictures of themselves posing beside numerous Labour MPs/MSPs like Johann Lamont, Ed Miliband, Chuka Umunna, Gemma Doyle and Anne McTaggart plastered all over the internet.

  97. Decko says:

    Sorry, It appears that there was a Lally Marriage to a girl called Clare, in Gretna, Dumfries in the year 2000 and by elimination I found out her maiden name is Morton, there are three births within that time frame that could account for this marriage, all three of them were born in the same year, 1980, I was born in Moray, Elgin, another in Ross & Crom, and our one born in Eastwood renfrewshire. so that would make her 34 years old. sorry for the post before please delete it seeing as i haven’t that option

  98. Edward says:

    Hmmm – (holding up arm for attention)
    Found this article from the Daily Mail
    https://archive.today/vQ5VP

    This is Ms Clare Lally who lives in Dunbartonshire, with her partner Derek Steel and disabled daughter Katie

  99. annie says:

    Better Together mission statement “Never get caught telling the truth when a lie will do.”

  100. Grouse Beater says:

    This is Ms Clare Lally who lives in Dunbartonshire

    They didn’t install a chair lift?
    Or think about giving her a more accessible council house?

  101. Sandra says:

    I know Clare. I don’t think she uses her children for political gain. If so the same must be true for me. I speak a lot about my boys and my wish for them in an Independent Scotland.Shame on Better Together though for getting Clare to say that she has a quiet voice compared to some Independence Supporters. Clare is a feisty woman with a powerful voice. I would never describe her as quiet.Shame on Better Together for promoting this rhetoric.

  102. Free Scotland says:

    The high-quality journalism of the Daily Record is on display yet again, with its obvious misunderstanding of the use of the apostrophe. From the context, we have to assume they meant carers’ rights and not carer’s rights, unless some lucky individual is considered to have more rights than all the other carers in Scotland.

  103. Edward says:

    Can I add that there is a Derek Stafford Lally who married a Claire Fitzpatrick in 1998 in Glasgow

    So is not the same Clare/Claire (sorry rev)

    But there is no getting away from the fact that Better Together with their friends in the press are out to manipulate the public

  104. Edward says:

    Grouse Beater – That’s a Labour council for you, why do something sensible when you can make a complete expensive and over the top solution

  105. scottish_skier says:

    Jeez, can BT not actually find a real member of the public who wants to help save the union? Just one? Is it that hard for them?

  106. Decko says:

    again by eliminationation on Scotlands People I have discover that is was an Andrew Lally, (who the heck is he) who married Claire Morton, in Dumfries in 2000, well he was born in 1971, in Fife, thank heavens they have all rare surnames as it wouldn’t be this easy.

    Listen sorry for the errors in grammar i am at work and doing this in a hurry

  107. Gillie says:

    So a West Dunbartonshire, a Labour controlled council spent over £40,000 on a ramp for Clare Lally and her family.

    Is it me or does this seem extreme?

  108. LJ says:

    Bay Rok, you’re asking Yes campaigners to assist in the cover up of a BT lie. The article does not criticise or berate your friend in any way so calm down. Lies like this need to be exposed.

  109. alistair says:

    o/t I’m sure someone here can help with some stats I’m after. a) How much are we paying in total on PFI contracts in Scotland per year, and b) how much are private contracts in the NHS in England worth. I saw these stats posted either here or on Bella but can’t find them again anywhere ! Thanks

  110. Bay Rok says:

    Clare is not a politician: just a full-time mum and care: she is however a great carers activist and a wonderful mum. She has spent more time in and out of hospital with her children than most politicians have spent in Westminster: she is not a career politician, and she is an admirable human being. Sure she is a Labour Party supporter and a No supporter, so what exactly? By harassing ordinary decent people like this all you are doing is adding fuel to the whole ‘cybernat troll’ and losing us the support we desperately need from Labour supporters and others. So, in addition to being despicable, it is also lousy politics. Once again, I request that this article be taken down – it is a seriously misleading and scurrilous piece of work.

  111. heedtracker says:

    There should be a biggest teamGB UKOK bullshitter of the year poll with an award ceremony after independence. My nomination goes to BBC in Scotland’s Sir Gordon Brewer/Severin Carrell at progressive liberal Guardian with special mention/category for Steve Bell, like the oscars with the oscar a smirky golden bull taking a big poop over Scottish democracy. Not sure what Scottish democracy looks like as sculpture though.

  112. Les Wilson says:

    Edward says:

    Wow! a great example of how labour could not organise a piss up in a brewery. Not the lady’s fault, just labour with no worries nor thought just how tax payer’s money is spent.

    Simpler solutions are available for such problems.
    Idiots, and would we every have them in charge of Scotland’s devolved spend every again?.
    Totally incompetent.

  113. TYRAN says:

    I noted with interest yesterday this “We are just everyday Scottish people (applause)…” clip by Clare Lally was featured prominently on the news, up against Nicola Sturgeon in the same piece.

    I thought at the time this was a broadcast stunt in order to make BT appear as grassroots and supported by your ‘everyday Scottish people’.

  114. heedtracker says:

    @ Bay Rock, which Lally are you complaining about? Or which report of which Lally are you complaining about and so on?

  115. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “By harassing ordinary decent people like this”

    Nobody has “harassed” her in any way whatsoever, and I’m getting very weary of the allegation. She can campaign for whatever she likes, but presenting her as an “ordinary mum” who isn’t political is a flat-out lie.

  116. keaton says:

    @Doug
    The pictures speak for themselves – someone who we are being told is just an “ordinary” mum who’s never been involved in politics before is actually someone who has been involved with the Labour party for at least two years. That’s the story here.

    Am I missing something here? How is it relevant that the two pics show the same person? Neither one is from the Times story.

  117. colin young says:

    @Bay rock my family are all disabled,this lady is beneath contempt using her children in this way.
    If she is a carer then she needs to stick to care, not politics.

  118. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Am I missing something here? How is it relevant that the two pics show the same person? Neither one is from the Times story.”

    Says who?

  119. jim watson says:

    Squirrels, why has no one mentioned squirrels yet?

    Nothing to see here – move along why don’t you…

    The labour party are notorious for using their activists and portraying them as “ordinary” members of the public. Look at any election leaflet and you will be able to see it from your own area – I am just surprised the journos let them off with this nonsense…

  120. Grouse Beater says:

    I’m jist an everyday Skottish person elevated up oan this platform an’ yous yins are way, way doon there oan the grund, less than ordinary, kinda commonplace ordinary.

    Tough luck.

  121. seanair says:

    The Mail must be in a tizzy, after denouncing the Council for spending £40,000 on a ramp, how can they turn it into a “nasty Nats attack beautiful caring mother of disabled child” ?
    No problem–watch tomorrow’s edition.

  122. steveasaneilean says:

    keaton beat me to it – do we have a photo of Claire at the BT rally so we can see that she is the same person as Clare who joined the Scottish labour shadow cabinet in 2012?

  123. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “do we have a photo of Claire at the BT rally so we can see that she is the same person as Clare who joined the Scottish labour shadow cabinet in 2012?”

    Yes, we do:

  124. RogueCoder says:

    @Bay Rok
    Nobody here has said a word against Ms Lally. We competely respect her right to campaign for a No vote, and we’re quite sure she’s a lovely lady and a dedicated and caring mum.

    The article is about BT misrepresenting whom she is, and the untruthful assertion that an independent Scotland’s NHS wouldn’t be able to provide medical care for disabled children. That is exactly the same lie that Vote No Borders peddled in their cinema ads, and they were told to withdraw them.

  125. Grouse Beater says:

    Can’t be the same person, stuart.

    One wears glasses the other does not.

  126. Ravelin says:

    At work so don’t have time to figure out a link but take a look at BT’s own Twitter feed (UK_Together). There’s a post…

    Clydebank’s very own Clare Lally kicking off @UK_Together #100daypledge launch this morning #indyref

    along with a picture of ‘Clare’. Unfortunately it’s taken from a distance so it’s very hard to tell if it’s the same ‘Clare’ but the persons characteristics are at least ‘consistent’ with the other pictures Rev has posted.

  127. Grouse Beater says:

    No- wait!
    Freckles everwhere, especially arms.
    Hides gap tooth smile in official photos.
    Long fake blonde hair, dark roots and eyebrows.
    Parson’s nose of a nose. (That last comment is misogynist.)

  128. molly says:

    Alistair,
    UK.Gov, current projects list PFI. It should tell you ALL the PFI projects ongoing but a word of warning-be sitting down when you read it !

  129. Ravelin says:

    Rev beat me to it, and with a much better picture. Note the caption “Better Together activist“. Of course given the BBC’s inability to get things correct recently I’m not saying that’s accurate but…..

  130. steviecosmic says:

    This has been highly amusing. BT caught again.

    Rev, I posted your betting article to Fb this morning and a mate from Oz sent me this message:

    ‘I have it on good authority from inside William Hill, that a bet for 400,000GBP has been placed for a NO result, made in London this morning. I said how sad will he be when he wakes up on 19th Sept!’

    Not a coincidence I fear…..

  131. bookie from hell says:

    BT need to stop dilly lallying and tell the truth

  132. chalks says:

    So Devo Max is coming is it?

    Or will it just be a united front saying that whoever is in government will deliver their devolution proposals.

    This will be their trick and the compliant media are already calling it ‘max’

    It’s not our idea of ‘max’ but to unionists, it is.

  133. heedtracker says:

    CLAIR LALLY BetterTogether Activist BBC vote NO Scotland

  134. Brotyboy says:

    Yes, we do:

    Quod erat demonstrandum.

  135. fergie35 says:

    Quite a large rally then, is that a studio they fitted 20+ LabServative activists into?

  136. caz-m says:

    O/T

    Listening to BBC news headlines regarding Michael Gove, Tory Education Minister, and the presenter told us that,

    “Michael Gove wants more British values entered into the English education system from September, which will be welcomed by the overwhelming majority of the UK public”.

    What?

    I just had to share that with somebody else.

  137. TheItalianJob says:

    Stu

    Seems like this site over past week or two has had a few people attack your posts. The other one is the so called “green supporter” who goes on relentlessy about the SNP etc.

    Could be as we are in the official campaign period that this site is to be targetted.

    Just saying.

  138. Castle Rock says:

    She is a Labour Party political activist Bay Rok who has used her position to try and hoodwink people that she is just a ‘normal’ concerned punter.

    We all have sympathy for her daughter but she is using it to undermine and harm the future of the Scottish NHS.

    What about all those ‘real’ concerned parents who have disabled children and need the NHS for support, help and care?

    Do we help Clare the political activist, the Labour Party and their Better Together partners to privatise the NHS?

    What do those all those ‘real’ concerned parents do then when the services are privatised and no longer available?

    And for what? So that the Labour Party can keep us tied to Westminster and they get another wee sniff at power? Look at where the NHS is in England, do you or anyone else seriously want that for Scotland?

    Clare has used her daughter’s plight to blatantly lie about the NHS, I think it is you that needs to think about it.

  139. JWil says:

    “Lally, a mother from Clydebank, with a child with serious health problems. She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    It seems that she doesn’t even realise that the NHS which so capably saved her daughter is headed by an SNP health minister.

  140. Scarlett says:

    PFI contracts are I believe, costing Scotland £1 bill a year.

  141. fergie35 says:

    Anyone who has No to Independence sympathys, is an ordinary citizen.
    Anyone voting yes, is a lunatic.
    The Leopard’s never change their spots.

  142. bookie from hell says:

    George Galloway ?@georgegalloway

    Gordon Brown may have been wrong about many things. But he’s right about Scotland’s future.

  143. HandandShrimp says:

    caz-m

    I think when Gove takes about British values in British schools he is talking about his own Bailiwick in England, not Scotland Wales and NI. No idea what he means by that though…presumably tea, tolerance and cakes.

  144. Training Day says:

    @caz-m

    If we vote No our school education system will be un-devolved as quickly as possible, so Cameron’s ideal of ‘British values’ being ‘inculcated’ in every school in Britain is entirely feasible.

  145. desimond says:

    Arent carers under the scope of Social work rather than NHS?

  146. heedtracker says:

    Where’s UKOK fudge man Duggie these days? This kind of och leave the poor wee soul alone big bullies, is right up his vote yes for dictatorship fudge alley.

  147. JWil says:

    When is the YES movement going to start pointing out that the implication of the title, Better Together, is that it suggests, by its very words, that Scotland is better off being subservient and dependent on the largesse of England. It’s an insult to Scots.

    Darling uses the term all the time. Someone needs to ask him what he is actually getting at.

  148. chalks says:

    Does anyone that article written about the privitisation of the NHS in England/Wales? It was going about twitter?

    Realise that is a bit general…lol

    Been meaning to have a rant on facebook and was going to use it.

  149. Patrick Roden says:

    So I wonder if Johann Lamont’s repeated claims, that she speaks to carers every day or that she gets letters from carers etc, are really referring to this person who is steeped in the Labour Party?

    I think fact that she is a lovely person is irrelevant, the fact that the Better Together Campaign has presented her as an ordinary member of the public and non political is the point.

  150. chalks says:

    Jwil – All they have to do is ask, how are we better together is health and education is devolved?

    If they come out with more powers, again, how are we better together if you have to give us specific powers?

  151. JWil says:

    @chalks

    Ok but they don’t ask. By ‘they’, I mean the political interviewers from the BBC and STV.

  152. Edward says:

    What sticks in my craw, is why Ms Clare Lally supports Labour and Better Together, despite the fact that it was a Labour council that cocked up the access for her daughter, or the fact that under Labour proposals (sans Andy Burnham) would see NHS Scotland merge with NHS England and end up privatised or even if not merged would still end up privatised, due to cut backs in the block grant due to cuts in the NHS in England

  153. Croompenstein says:

    ‘We are not so loud’, you don’t need to be loud you have the MSM and the British State doing your work for you…

    starts at 1:30

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04616yx/reporting-scotland-09062014

  154. bigGpolmont says:

    Bay Rok
    Get off your high horse man as far as I can see no one has said anything nasty about Mrs Lally.
    What I was pointing out was the fact that The times tried to portray her and the others at that rally as being “Ordinary”
    Mum of the Year, having contacts high up in the opposition to the duly elected government of the day, And married into a Family that once held sway over hundreds of thousands of people in the west of

  155. Helena Brown says:

    Scunnered sick of BT and their lying. Why on earth do people still cleave to this bunch of dead beat losers. I really do not care who the hell Ms Lally is, she seems to be an idiot of the first water in that she does not know the first thing about the Health Service that saved her child. Playing on people’s sympathies for disabled children seems to be a thing with Labour.

  156. TD says:

    Bay Rock
    How can you say that Claire is not a politician when she has joined the Labour shadow cabinet? She may have been an ordinary person and a committed carer, but now she is a politician. BT represented her as an ordinary member of the public and that is the lie. That is also the basis of the story. Why should the story be withdrawn?
    I don’t think she is being harassed, but the lie is being exposed. Nice people do bad things – especially when they are manipulated by cynics with no scruples. If Claire wants to respond to this story, then I am sure that we would all be interested to read what she has to say on this site.

  157. Capella says:

    The Labour Party have form on this. Anyone remember the War of Jennifer’s Ear? http://tinyurl.com/kk2gkbp. More twists than the ramp on Ms Lally’s front garden. (That ramp looks more like spite from the council than favouritism!).

  158. keaton says:

    @Rev
    Well, they’re not in the online edition, anyway. And both are in the 2012 Record piece, which is where I assumed you’d obtained them. If one of them was also used in the Times article, perhaps you should mention that? Otherwise it’s unclear what should be remarkable about the fact that the same person appears in both pics.

    Or just replace one of them with the pic you just posted from the rally, which puts the issue to bed.

  159. desimond says:

    The problem appears to be the classic “Blame the game, not the player!”.

    The trolls are trying to make out any anger is about the lovely caring mother with an opinion of her own while we know its nothing personal whatsoever; unless Clare willfully painted herself as a plucky bystander who suddenly felt compelled to take a stand given its clear how the NHS Scotland would collapse after a YES vote (she could maybe ask NHS for YES for advice?).

    If Clare gets her NO wish, then I just hope that should she earn money from her Labour Party gig, she doesnt go into a high tax band and find herself within JoLAs ‘Something for Nothing’ target range.

  160. heedtracker says:

    Lord Gove of Aberdeen on the Take, is a graduate of Roberts Gordon’s School in the center of Aberdeen. Gove’s school fees were all paid for by the tax payer so that Gove could benefit from Robert Gordon’s class sizes of between 8 and 12 pupils with every imaginable teaching aid there is. And all of it produced just one more raging far right Toryboy/buffoon.

    Gove began working life at the raging far right/royals worshipping/Scots.gov hating Press and Journal where his first act was to immediately go in strike and stand on the picket line for over a year, being paid no doubt by the National Union of Journalists, currently same outfit pretending to be very sad and very demoralised at the BBC in vote NO Scotland Pacific quay.

    Not saying Gove’s another nutter on the move but facts are facts.

    And politicians and journos keep asking why they have absolutely no cred out here in teamGB land.

  161. Grouse Beater says:

    Scarlett said: PFI contracts are I believe, costing Scotland £1 bill a year.

    Chavez set the democratic example other South American nations followed: he had a Bill passed in parliament that made it mandatory for at least fifty percent of executives on PFI company boards to consist of ordinary people.

    (That word again.)

    At the first opportunity those ordinary people voted their company’s extortionate interest rates halved or more!

    Scotland can do the same legally once it has autonomy!

  162. Sydthesnake says:

    I Have a disabled son, I would never, will never use his disability for any end, no matter how important the issue is.

  163. Kev says:

    Anyone who wishes to venture onto BT’s Twitter page can see a distant picture of Clare Lally speaking on stage at yesterday’s event. My problem is how on earth did the Times journalist not manage to see that this was the exact same person he/she inteviewed?

    They either did and continued to report the lie that she’s just an ordinary activist, or they didn’t interview her at all but simply reported what she said on stage (and then lied), or there was indeed a Claire Lally who isn’t Clare Lally, in which case they perhaps should have pointed out this was a woman with the exact (almost) same name and from the same town as the Labour party member that appeared on stage so as to prevent any confusion on the matter.

    Surely thats what any “honest” journalist would have reported?

  164. joe kane says:

    The Labour Party care so much about disabled people it only just recently buried its own report into disability and povert, which it had commissioned well-known disabled activists and academics to write for it. Naturally the authors of the report were appalled at the way their work was treated.

    Actions speak louder than words – Labour publish Poverty & Disability taskforce report
    25 Apr 2014
    http://benefitscroungingscum.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/actions-speak-louder-than-words-labour.html

  165. Giving Goose says:

    Message to the Labour trolls and supporters;
    1 in 5 Scottish children live in poverty, because of the Labour Party! Let us start to address this shocking statistic by asking Scottish Labour to apologise for this.
    http://whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/310/
    Please

  166. yerkitbreeks says:

    @ heedtracker Robert Gordon’s College was a sooper school when I was there – only 50 boarders, sons of ex-pats, out of 1000 and very many, like me, on local Authority grants.

    Sadly neoliberalism, a bit like persuading members to flog off the TSB for ” English gold “, has meant it has become exclusive and I get regular appeals to leave it everything in my Will. It’s now constantly boasting how its pupils ( boys and girls, as it failed to gobble up Albyn School for Girls ) represent Scotland – a bit like over 50% of gold olympic medal winners were from the private sector which educates 7% of our population.

    Creeping privatisation, like the NHS south of the border. The reason we have been converted to YES.

  167. velofello says:

    A key strategy for “Scottish” NuLabour is to empower local councils with funding – and cunningly – neuter the Scottish Parliament. The photos on here of the ramp at Ms Lally’s front garden is a excellent worked example of what I fear would unfold. Who on earth sanctioned that piece of nonsense? Her business is her business but if I were in her shoes I’d be campaigning against the persons who, vindictively surely, designed, approved, and installed that folly. But then in a comment above, did I read that Ms Lally requested that house well aware of the three flights of steps? I’d have thought a one level house would have been the answer, but then Labour in power didn’t build many council houses. Was it six over a dozen years or so?

  168. Bay Rok says:

    Clare is a Labour Party supporter and a No campaigner. I am a Green Supporter for Yes. We happen to be on the same Committee for Carers Scotland – working together to get a better deal for carers whatever the outcome, getting a Carers Parliament going, lobbying to raise the level of carers Allowance from a pittance of £61 per week. We are both ‘ordinary people’ as well, in that neither of us derive an income from being active in the community and working for a better deal for carers. Clare’s membership of the Labour Shadow Cabinet is, as far as I understand it, as an unpaid carers adviser and ‘token carer’ to ensure that Carers are not forgotten in policies – we are often invisible and ignored, so it is a very welcome. So, she is not standing for office, she isnt a politician, she isn’t a paid adviser, she isn’t related to Pat Lally, but she is a worthwhile and admirable person and you will have to take that from me as Yes supporter and as a carer and campaigner myself going back over 20 years.
    This article is horribly wrong, because it does personally attack a citizen activist who is also a dedicated mother and carer. It also is a classic case of mistaken identity, caused by not checking the sources properly. If we continue to campaign like this we will lose this referendum, I kid you not.

  169. annie says:

    Labour regularly drag elderly ill people to the Scottish Parliament to attempt to denigrate the Scottish NHS and the SNP Government,it would appear that no one is too old or too young to be exploited by them.

  170. Giving Goose says:

    Further to my recent above post; I’m not the only blogger who feels that Scottish children – All Scottish Children – have been greatly let down by Scottish Labour.
    Labour – an absolute disgrace!
    http://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/breadline-kids/

  171. bigGpolmont says:

    Bay Rok
    Get off your high horse! as far as I can see no one has said anything nasty about Mrs Lally.
    What I was pointing out was the fact that The times tried to portray her and the others at that rally as being “Ordinary”.
    Mum of the Year, Having contacts high up in the opposition to the duly elected government of the day, And married into a Family that once held sway over hundreds of thousands of people in the west of Scotland, could never be construed as ordinary!
    I have been involved with people with disabilities for the best part of fifty years
    I myself was in a wheelchair and calipers for years so believe me I would never bad mouthing Mrs Lally for her campaigning. It is the media that I take issue with If any of us can find a direct link to her connections to the Lally family, The labour Party hierachy or the no campaign with a few dozen Keystrokes why did the journalist not choose to do that? The only thing that I take exception to re Clare lally is that she is perpetrating the Myth that The NHS is one. God forbid but if she were needing treatment south of the border The reciprical treatment agreement we have in place would mean that she would receive the same treatment as an English person in England
    and Which is sadly inferior to the treatment anyone whether they are English or Scottish would receive north of the Border.

  172. David Briggs says:

    Looking at the two photos, if I were asked to pick out somebody from a line up containing the lady in the first photo I would say she was the same as the lady in the second photo.

    Where is the fuss? they are photos of the same individual.

    Bay rok can demand as much as he/she wants. Were I not a gentleman I would tell he/she where to go.

  173. slackshoe says:

    @ Bay Rok:

    You seem to know an awful lot about her involvement with Labour. Just saying.

    Even if everything you said was true (which I don’t think it entirely is), the fact still remains that Labour are presenting her as an “ordinary mother” (i.e. not a political activist) and using her as a mouthpiece to perpetuate bullshit myths about the Scottish NHS, the very same NHS that provide care for her daughter.

    Aren’t you disgusted by that? You should be.

  174. joe kane says:

    It was the last Labour Government which extended the DWP sanctions regime to include sick patients and disabled people.

  175. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Bay Rok,

    Your points appear to be fair enough; I’m not going to argue since I have no knowledge of the woman at all. But I would say if she is a citizen activist I’m flatly amazed that she would espouse the view that the NHS that helped her family so much is better served in the union.

    In her position it is phenomenally hard to conceive that she does not know what Westminster are doing to the NHS.

    I’m sure if what you about who she is happens to be true WoS will print a retraction, but on the grounds that she is quoted as wishing to defend the NHS while staying in the Union…. she’s worth pointing out purely for the ridiculousness of the statement.

  176. Grouse Beater says:

    Gove and Cameron to back “British values” in … English schools.

    If you asked them to define British values I bet they’d come up with waffle.

    English have called themselves British for so long they’re no longer sure what it is to be English.

  177. Peter Macbeastie says:

    P.S – you certainly don’t have to be paid, or a councillor, or anything else to be a political activist. So that, I’m afraid, gets no one off anything around here.

  178. Gillie says:

    Summary:

    1. A BT activist described as being just an ordinary member of the public.

    2. A BT activist who is a member of Johann Lamont’s shadow cabinet.

    3. A BT activist that has a £40,000 ramp built outside her house by the local Labour council.

    4. A BT activist who allegedly sold her private home and managed to get a council house of her choosing.

    Is that a correct summary?

  179. HandandShrimp says:

    (That ramp looks more like spite from the council than favouritism!).

    I remember that story and I think I commented somewhere at the time that it looked like a vindictive “Ramp? I’ll give you ramp” response rather than a favour.

  180. desimond says:

    Are BT moving from FEAR into CARE tactics

    The classic “Yeah we see that those Yes folk are nice but look we CARE even more and here are some of our nice common friends to tell you thats the truth, honest to God it is, we have no agenda. Vote No and you too can get down the Old Smiddy and sing “We are the world” at karaoke with Jola!

  181. ronnie anderson says:

    Does that Bay Rok no remind you,s of somebody recent on here

    the Duggie wie the bone. Enough tae drive a person doo lally,

    am no Only the Lonely, am taking ma friend Allypally ! whit

    your taking your friend Allyballyballybee,Eaw Eaw ! whits

    wie the donkey.

  182. Wired of Hermiston says:

    “Gove’s school fees were all paid for by the tax payer so that Gove could benefit from Robert Gordon’s class sizes of between 8 and 12 pupils with every imaginable teaching aid there is. ”

    I went to the aforementioned school and I can assure you that when Gove was a pupil there the class sizes were not 8-12 pupils. Up until the very end of my schooling there typcail class size was around 30-36.

  183. Wired of Hermiston says:

    Also the facilities were shite then!

  184. TD says:

    Bay Rock
    Well, if your position is that a member of the shadow cabinet who presumably mixes with the most senior members of the Labour party in Scotland and discusses “policies” with them (why else would she be there) is not a “politician” then there is no persuading you. But everyone else sees this for what it is.
    There is no harassment, but there is legitimate exposure of lies – not so much by Claire but by the BT organisers.
    The alleged mistaken identity is a bit of a red herring – I certainly don’t know the true position on this. But the Rev has said that if he is given evidence that proves that Claire is not related to Pat Lally, then he will retract. Over to you I think.
    As for the impact on the outcome of the referendum, I would think that exposing the lies and cynicism of the BT campaign was a pretty good way to get more people to vote Yes. But that’s just my opinion.

  185. Helena Brown says:

    @Bay Rok, you need to ask yourself why your friend is an idiot who is quite likely being turned into a complete mug today. She did it to herself nobody seems to have made her. As a carer does she not know that Scotland’s NHS is a separate beast, because by making the statement that she is supporting a NO vote for that reason says it all. I would think as a caring friend you should enlighten her. Oh and the first person who EVER described me as an ordinary voter better be wearing running shoes. I am an extraordinary voter who on the 18th of September will hold her countries life in her hands and I will not be wasting it.

  186. Castle Rock says:

    Look Bay Rok, I’m really Johann Lamont and even though I pretend to be the leader of the Scottish Labour Party I am actually an undercover Yes supporter and have been ever since I started campaigning way back in 1979.

    I kid you not.

    Now fuck off and troll elsewhere.

  187. Tasmanian says:

    So she’s one of Johann’s quiet bat people then?

  188. steveasaneilean says:

    As someone who works in the NHS in Scotland we have to get the message across loud and clear. The NHS in Scotland is and always has been independent. The NHS was forged in Scotland in 1913 by the setting up of the Highlands and Islands Medical Service – it did not arise de novo in the brain of a 1940s Welsh Labour politician. The HIMS came around as a result of the Liberal Party feeling bad about the fact that national insurance only applied to those in employment and so shafted the Highlands and Islands.
    The NHS in England is being dismantled – a process which started in the early 1990s, accelerated under New (i.e.Not) Labour and is now being driven to its logical conclusion by Westminster.
    They would dearly love to do the same thing to the NHS in Scotland and the only thing stopping them is the fact that NHS Scotland is independent and the Scottish Govenment are not playing ball with Westminster.
    Anyone who think that in the long-term the NHS in Scotland will be better served by remaining part of the UK clearly has no understanding of the NHS in Scotland and the core values that lie at the heart of those who work in it – healthcare free at the point of access, not-for-profit, universally available and based on need not ability to pay.
    For Better Together to keep bringing up the NHS in Scotland as a fear tactic is disingenuos and highly insulting to people like me who have been fighting for 20 years to prevent what is happening in England, with Labour approval, being visited on the NHS in Scotland.
    So if you REALLY care about the NHS in Scotland and want to protect it the only way to do that is to vote Yes.

  189. O/T The unionist parties are going to unite in offering us more devolution. So interesting to see the article in this morning’s FT –
    https://archive.today/xdTV7

    This is the same as what Lamont has been talking about — devolution of power to cities, the article refers to England, but presumably it wouldn’t take much discussion amongst the unionist parties to agree more devolution to Scotland i.e. along the same lines as the system being considered for England, with some powers devolved to large cities. Hardly what Scotland wants.

  190. seanair says:

    Grouse Beater
    It’s always difficult to know what Cameron means when he uses the word “country”. If he means to include Scotland he will be laughed at.
    A truthful English document would surely include the advice, “Always disrespect the Jocks because they are inferior to us”.

  191. Cath says:

    she is a worthwhile and admirable person

    I’m all for respect in debate, and I had hoped the independence one could be run with respect, and ultimately that debate itself would result in a better Scotland, and hopefully better UK. I had such high hopes for that back in 2011, and genuinely thought wiser heads in the UK would prevail and a proper, decent debate would be allowed, even if there was some dirty tricks.

    As time goes on and it becomes clear the UK and Westminster parties will not allow that, but prefer instead to demonise yes supporters and sink to the level of truly evil lies, such as those involving sick kids and cancer research, it’s becoming ever harder to remain polite with NO activists who, by being a part of that campaign, condone and encourage it.

    I try as hard as possible to remain polite with no voting friends. But I’d draw the line at activists right now. I don’t see how anyone can be a part of that campaign in good conscience. And what she is saying is repeating the scaremongering lies about the “British NHS”.

    If the No side ever start to allow reasonable debate, I’ll regain my respect for their activists.

  192. muttley79 says:

    I Lally cannot believe that even SLAB have sunk this low (sorry could not resist it).

  193. MajorBloodnok says:

    With BT having changed their badge slogans from “UKOK” to “No thanks” certainly brings home the phrase politeness costs nothing*, and that’s what you get if you vote NO.

    (*or less, as the case may be.)

  194. Mosstrooper says:

    I know nothing of Clare Lally and care little apart from some human empathy. I would however advise her to consider the two following aphorisms.

    1)If you stick your head above the parapet expect to get shot at.

    2) If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    Oh! one other thought.

    If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

  195. Seasick Dave says:

    Bay Rok

    Are you being deliberately obtuse here?

    Ms Lally is not an ordinary member of the public.

    Ms Lally is campaigning for a No vote which will almost certainly have a drastic effect on the services she claims to care about.

    We should be free to criticise on both counts.

    Maybe you could have a word in her shell like and get her to comment on here as to why she can’t see that a Yes vote will be to her advantage.

  196. Clootie says:

    O/T

    If you are in the Aberdeenshire area.

    Ivan McKee – businessforscotland. Tonight at the New Inn – Ellon
    19:00 for 19:30 start

  197. Ken500 says:

    Shameful tax evading Gordon Brown will not have even written the latest ‘Speech’. A PR company will have written it. Pay for by public monies while the vulnerable starve. Labour/Unionists hang your heads in shame, for what you have done to Britain.

    Still no apology.

    Vote YES

  198. Fiona says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Once again I cannot post my reply to you: it is here if you are interested

    http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=56427925

  199. Grouse Beater says:

    Seanair said:
    It’s always difficult to know what Cameron means when he uses the word “country”.

    Fair point – the main reason “national news” is so misleading for me, ultimately a bore. They talk of England’s problems most of the time as if Greater Britain.

  200. Clootie says:

    This has to go on every Facebook link possible. This is shocking stuff – very crude manipulation of the public by Labour for their Tory friends.

    I wonder how low Labour can sink!

  201. Cath says:

    Maybe you could have a word in her shell like and get her to comment on here as to why she can’t see that a Yes vote will be to her advantage.

    I’d like to see that. Give BT activists like this some space to spell out for us why exactly they believe the union is better for their own field of expertise. Let’s see if there is a case, or some reasoning behind it other than the BT lies and scaremongering, which is intended to work with those who don’t know how the NHS works.

    It would be interesting to see if they could do it, even if it meant resorting to an argument that is, at heart, more one of emotion. Or that comes from an understandable fear of change when you’re already struggling to cope with something, even if there aren’t really any facts to back that up.

    The problem isn’t this woman’s views – she’s absolutely entitled to hold them. I have no voting friends who will admit it’s emotional, and that’s fair enough. The problem is BT lying about who she is, and the constant use of slogans and lies that play on other people’s unfounded fears, rather than presenting fact and reasoned debate.

  202. heedtracker says:

    Clare/Claire Lally’s was to join Labour’s shadow cabinet which is a very astute career move for any aspiring Labour MP. And Clare/Clair must have actually joined the shadow cabinet by now though as the Record thing is from August 2012.

    Which does beg the question why the Times says Clare/Claire is a “volunteer” BetterTogether speaker? Maybe Clare/Clair has not been paid anything for being a member of the Labour Shadow cabinet, ergo the Times is accurate and not another bunch of cheezee liars for UKOK, Bay Rock?

  203. Ken500 says:

    Cameron’s solution. Secretly devolve Scottish fund’s to London City. Thatcher Mark 3

  204. JGedd says:

    The thing is, even though the article and the posts are very clear that they are not attacking Ms Lally, who sounds as if she does admirable work on behalf of carers, it’s what the dark forces of BT spin will make of it. So while Bay Rok may not be a troll it sounds as if he/she has already alerted Ms. Lally to what is being said.

    The minions of BT may be working away in their dark cellars at this moment spinning a sticky spider’s web of illusion and manufactured outrage. Since Ms.Lally is also an activist that will again escape mention in what will be depicted with pretended indignation as a vile cybernat attack.

    Perhaps we should just leave this alone? There will be many other escapades of those scamps in BT which can be scrutinized in coming days and this will not be the worst of them.

  205. Alfresco Dent says:

    Whatever is else Claire may or may not be she is definitely a liar, and very possibly a fool.

  206. Ken500 says:

    Is Bay Rok Ms Lally?

  207. Fiona says:

    @ Alfresco Dent

    She is not necessarily a liar. She may be mistaken and she may have been misled. What is definite is that she is wrong

  208. R whittington says:

    Clearly an independent Scotland is going to be a lovely and harmonious place! 😉

  209. Ken500 says:

    With a mentor like Jackie Baillie, every care workers public enemy, it would be easy to get things wrong. Ignorance is no excuse.

  210. HandandShrimp says:

    Mr Whittington

    It will a feisty argumentative place…just the way we like it.

    Don’t mistake this for nastiness, Clare seems like a good mother and a decent soul, we just disagree with the nomenclature “ordinary voter”.

  211. Grouse Beater says:

    R Whiitington said: Scotland is going to be a lovely and harmonious place!

    Actually, find a cottage in the Highlands and it’s exactly that. No one said happiness is living in noisy cities.

  212. Ken500 says:

    Jackie’s on to Paul at the Daily Mail already, the jungle drums will be getting hot. Smoke screen

    It would be laughable, if it wasn’t so tragic. People can see straight through the hype.

    Vote YES

  213. The Rough Bounds says:

    Isn’t it amazing how people with some form of disability or have a member of their family who has some form of disability are alway wonderful, caring, nice, friendly, cheery, honest people?

  214. Brotyboy says:

    If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    This reminds me of the Yorkshire expression, ‘He tries to run with the hare and the hounds.’

    Although I prefer the Lancastrian version, ‘You can’t ride two horses with one arse.’

  215. bigGpolmont says:

    How can the Times possibly say that she is an ordinary person?
    The picture above from facebook shows the daily retards headline “MUM JOINS POLITICAL ELITE”
    Two newspapers saying exact opposite! Since newspapers dont tell lies what are we to do? Then on top of all that Gordon (Backadder )Brown calling for the debate between Salmond and Cameron! Now I am really confused!
    This must be the cunning plan that Alistair (baldrick )Darling had to save the union !

  216. Grouse Beater says:

    Lally’s pally with Aunt Sally’s rallies.

  217. James says:

    Bay Rok, please explain how in any way is this article a personal attack on Claire/Clare? The only thing I can see which could be possibly construed in such a way is ‘prepared to lie on command about the NHS for political ends.’ And if this statement is not true it would mean the Claire/Clare in question is lying of her own volition, or is just simply wrong and blindly spreading untruths to further her misguided political agenda.

  218. Brotyboy says:

    Lally’s pally with Aunt Sally’s rallies

    But no sae pally with AllyBally.

  219. desimond says:

    Im sorry, but until i see evidence that Clare ( respect Gilbert O’Sullivan) has had her photographs taken by that Vote No Borders commisioned Camera clicking genius like all the other “ordinary Scots” last week, then Im out!

  220. Geoff Huijer says:

    I don’t know which is worse…

    Someone purporting to be just a ‘regular’ non-political person or the newspapers that print the lies.

    Probably the newspapers who should at the very least check the facts. Mind you, they probably did check the facts but it suits their agenda.

    They didn’t think they’d be found out.

  221. desimond says:

    The Rough Bounds

    Theres a very good Frankie Boyle routine involving a fast driving tax exile but we can discuss offline over a drink one night, rather than here!

  222. Bay Rok says:

    There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all. wtf does having a ridiculously complicated wheelchair ramp put up by your cooncil have to do with anything? Will you be suggesting that she gets preferential wheely-bin collection next?

    You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines, but I were a journalist writing up this discussion, it would probably read: “Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” . I hope you are all fucking proud of yourselves. Now fuck off.

  223. James says:

    Again, please explain where the article personally attacks the mum of disabled kid. In any case, just because she has a disabled child doesn’t make her untruflul assertions any less open to criticism!

  224. haud on the noo says:

    “You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines”

    So they write themselves ?

  225. Jamie Arriere says:

    I’m struggling to get worked up about this. So BT dresses up a Labour activist, with links to the party to the extent that she’s an associate adviser to the Shadow Cabinet, as an ‘ordinary Joanna’ – OK, but that’s what BT/Labour do and have always done.

    We’ve exposed that, so now just let the woman get on with her admirable work.

    Let’s get onto Gordon Brown calling for a Salmond-Cameron debate

  226. Fiona says:

    @ Bay Rok

    I have not monstered this woman in any way. Most of the posters here have not. But if you think that having a disabled child puts you beyond criticism of any kind then you are mistaken. When you accept a public platform and use it to spread false information that will be the subject of adverse comment.Doesn’t matter who you are nor how sincerely you may hold your position.

  227. Sydthesnake says:

    the rough bounds:

    please don’t tar us all with the same brush

    I am all of the things you say, ask my mum lol

  228. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok said: You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines

    I’ll complete your sentence:

    Nobody controls stupid headlines which is why the SNP have no mandate to do that. That right belongs to the people of Scotland who are denied their democratic right by the SNP.

  229. Shangan says:

    The Record article does not say her husband is called Derek. It says her partner is called Derek. Derek Steel. He is about 3 years younger than Pat Lally’s son Derek (Lally, not Steel) who is coincidentally married to someone called Claire. I’d drop this angle if I were you, it distracts from the otherwise decent points you make.

  230. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The Record article does not say her husband is called Derek. It says her partner is called Derek.”

    The Clydebank Post one, however, says “husband”.

  231. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    My impression is that the only mistake is the hint that this “ordinary” Labour activist and member of the Scottish shadow cabinet is Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law.

    That’s the coincidence. Pat Lally has a son called Derek, who is married to a Clare Norton. This person’s maiden name is Clare Lally and she’s bidie-ins with a Derek Steel.

    Bay Rock has latched on to this mistake and is now lambasting Wings for the entire article. Well he says he knows Miss Lally and she’s a wonderful person. Which is probably entirely true. But she’s a wonderful person who is most certainly a member of the “political elite” whom we’re being asked to accept as an “ordinary (non-political) Mum”. This is dishonest.

    Now if she really was an ordinary Mum, maybe she would have an excuse for believing the NHS to be all one service and that fighting to save the union was necessary to preserve it. This is a lie that gets a lot of coverage. But as she’s a Labour politician, she has no such excuse.

    She’s flat-out lying about the NHS. She’s actually working against her daughter’s best interests in campaigning for the union, because the union will wreck NHS Scotland. But she’ll do it for her party loyalty.

    And did she also accede to being misrepresented as an “ordinary Mum”? We wonders.

  232. No no no...Yes says:

    Found this on Jim Murphy’s twitter:

    https://twitter.com/jimmurphymp/status/475940979502231552/photo/1
    Jim says:

    “Host CLAIRE Lally a smart and passionate speaker.”

    Jim will be right enough then!

  233. Gaz says:

    The husband is called Derek Steel and she is Claire Lally, now the obituary says the Guy is the son of Pat Lally and his wife claire, wouldn’t the woman if married would be called Claire/Clare Steel? Also, I put up this article on FB and was promply messaged from a friend that she KNOWS Claire and that this article is fiction at best..

    oh, and I’m a Yes Voter, but I will not be tarred with the liers from labour..

    Gaz..

  234. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The husband is called Derek Steel and she is Claire Lally, now the obituary says the Guy is the son of Pat Lally and his wife claire, wouldn’t the woman if married would be called Claire/Clare Steel?”

    Yes, except that the Clydebank Post muddies the water by saying that Derek is her HUSBAND and giving her name as Lally, which would mean his name was Lally too. Which is why we didn’t say she WAS Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law, merely suggested that it seemed plausible.

    As for the spelling, it seems that the Telegraph simply got that wrong, which is understandable if they only heard it spoken on stage. The “Better Together”/”United With Labour” Clare Lally IS the same one as in all the other stories, which is the important point.

    “Also, I put up this article on FB and was promply messaged from a friend that she KNOWS Claire and that this article is fiction at best..”

    What part of it is fiction? Give me a single quote that’s factually wrong.

  235. Clarinda says:

    Helena Brown – 1.24pm

    Thank you for rejecting the tab “ordinary voter” etc. – it’s not that I object one bit to being one of Jock Tamson’s bairns – it’s those who refer to me as “ordinary” that I really object. Robert Burn’s had little time for those “coofs” who thought themselves our betters – I can’t run very fast now so I rely on you to catch any unfortunate coof on my behalf.

    I imagine that BT who have allegedly called Ms Lally “ordinary” in whatever warped sense of promoting some weird lowest common denominator to impress us ‘ordinary folk’ enter the category of coof as we of “independent mind …. looks an’ laughs at a’ that”.

  236. Derek M says:

    wow Bay Rok you sound real annoyed and telling people to f off in such a nasty way makes me think you are a No activist and afraid of intellectual debate since thats what you lot are hopeless at hmm lets just spin some more lies and get a fancy pr/add company to help cause we are so crap at it,losers!

  237. TD says:

    Bay Rok
    I think your last post demonstrates quite well that you have lost the argument. Shame you had to be so offensive about it.
    I for one am not going to pursue this further, because I really think that as Yes voters we should pull together.

  238. steveasaneilean says:

    So Rev can you take out the references to Pat Lally in your article above? It remains just as powerful without them and that way there can be no accusations of mis-representation – just the simple fact that Better Together are presenting people as something other than what they are and that they are using the NHS as a fear tactic which is a very “nasty” thing to do in my view.

  239. galamcennalath says:

    Whether it’s Lab, Con, BT, VNB… they seem incapable of finding genuine non political ordinary people to do their bidding . All astroturfers!

  240. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all.

    Now that is classic concern troll. What sort of a person, convinced that a Yes vote is right for the country, would change to No because they had a spat with a few people on a blog site? Even people who were being fairly obnoxious? Right.

  241. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I expect Stu will correct the article when he gets back. He said he was away to do an interview.

  242. Grouse Beater says:

    English have called themselves British for so long they’re no longer sure what it is to be English.

    By sheer coincidence a feature has just popped up on the Guardian site expressing exactly that question, and the result is a confusion of contradictory definitions.

    One states simply, “It’s Philip Larkin outside a library with a bicycle” – which of course is not really British more English.

    Didn’t former PM John Major think it was somthing along the lines of, “Drinking warm beer on the village green while the vicar cycles by, on a balmy summer’s day.”

  243. Cath says:

    were a journalist writing up this discussion, it would probably read: “Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” .

    Does everything that’s ever been said about David Cameron that isn’t heaping praise on him as a wonderful person also count as “monstering the Dad of a disabled kid”, including being pissed off about him privatising the NHS down south?

  244. slackshoe says:

    Spare us your faux moral indignation, Bay Rok. Nobody is attacking Clare/Claire.

    I think your petulant outburst just proved that you know we’re right.

  245. Gillie says:

    We know enough about Clair Lally now to conclude that she is hiding behind the ‘ordinary’ tag to spread lies about NHS Scotland.

    “Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”

  246. slackshoe says:

    It is textbook concern trolling. “Oh, I would definitely vote yes if it wasn’t for (insert petty reasons)”

  247. @Bay Rok

    Surely as a YES voting Green party member,you know that welfare will never be devolved if we vote NO?

    I get carers allowance for my daughter,I cant get a job because of the school holidays and the fact she needs specialist care.Due to cutbacks the only playscheme she can go to may soon close.
    My local council is run by a Labour/Tory coalition(i am not making this up!)

    So thats my childs future,cuts by westminster,cuts by the council and no way to raise the current level of carers allowance unless its devolved(which it wont be)

    How the F*** is that Better Together!

  248. Dal Riata says:

    Saw that Claire/Clare “Better Together activist” yesterday on the BBCBI giving it the ‘UKOK is wonderful’ stuff and gave it the usual ‘Aye right! FFS! and a shake of the head’ response to the Better Together lie machine.

    Ah, but here we are today with the news that Claire/Clare is not, as the Times says, an “ordinary” woman at all, but one who is, indeed, according to the Daily Record of April 28, 2012, part of “Labour’s shadow cabinet as their first ‘Carers Champion'”… Well, well, who woulda thunk it, eh! Better Together and their MSM propaganda machine caught out lying and misinforming… AGAIN!

    And, how come she was the one chosen to be given airtime on the BBCBI? Curiouser and curiouser.

  249. Caroline Corfield says:

    Between Scotland’s People website and 192.com it should be an easy and relatively cheap exercise to discern a) are there two Clare/Claire Lallys in Clydebank ( which includes Duntocher whether Duntocher likes it or not), b) are they married or partnered to Derek Lally or Steel, and indeed the full names of their children.

    This will provide two outcomes 1) there are indeed two separate sets of people living nearby with uncannily similarly detailed lives – not impossible just relatively improbable
    2) there is one set of people, and due to poor diligence their names are misspelt, their surnames misattributed, their children’s names shortened and mixed up.

    In scenario 2) I am curious as to how articles in the national press remain uncorrected if this is the case

    As to the ordinariness or otherwise of someone who is a card carrying member of a political party and indeed the Labour Party in Scotland – I think statistically that makes you quite un-ordinary, ordinary people do not belong in political parties statistically. One can easily campaign for something without joining a party, in many cases it might even be easier, no divided loyalties. For example, in my experience where my mother was the chairwoman of Strathclyde pre-school play groups association, it did not stand in her way in getting access to politicians or councillors, or negotiating for funding, or having an input to policy decisions.

  250. Norma says:

    Bay Rock, if you are serious about voting Yes, I fail to see how disagreeing with a few people about loyalties to a friend/acquaintance, would make you change your mind! This vote is far too serious to let your country go down the tubes simply because you are offended by remarks made here, especially as the majority are not personal or offensive!

  251. Mary Bruce says:

    It is almost a mental illness the way that some people will put the interests of a political party before the wellbeing of an entire nation.

  252. Dal Riata says:

    “There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all.”

    Classic concern trolling.

    ““Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” . I hope you are all fucking proud of yourselves. Now fuck off.”

    Concern troll implodes! ROFLMAO!

  253. Nana Smith says:

    O/T This is good

    A debate on Friday at Dingwall Baptist hall

    Results after the meeting yes with 63 votes and no with 25 votes and 11 undecided

  254. turnip_ghost says:

    O/T but I do like having a neb at the BT website every now and again…Apparently they can’t reply on “the lottery winners” unlike the Yes campaign….They fail to mention the dodgy deals their big donator has with the middle east…In fact…they fail to mention him at all. It’s genuinely just bile that comes from them…how do they do it day in, day out?!

    https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/856385558.png?1402409257

  255. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    What is with this “donator” word? Where did it come from? “Donor” – the normal usage for literally yonks – even needs two fewer key presses to spell.

  256. Edward says:

    Bay Rok or what ever your actual name is
    You really are coming across as an idiot
    but more that I think
    No one has actually said anything against Clare or Claire

    The reference to the wheelchair ramp was an observation that her local Labour council had let here down badly, again nothing against Claire/Clare. It was being critical of the council, which Clare also criticised in the Daily Mail article.

    So to make more out of it, just make you out to be rather stupid.

    I some how doubt you are who you make out you are, that of being a Green Yes supporter, and sound rather like a moronic Labour activist or even a trainee journalist looking for an angle

  257. Nana Smith says:

    Brilliant Bateman takes down Gordon Brown!

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/

  258. john j says:

    The Labour party in the west of Scotland has been a self serving nepotism for years, Martin, Shinwell etc. Now our Clare (or Clair) is being groomed for stardom and a safe Westminter seat by the sound of it

  259. Free Scotland says:

    How much time has been wasted today on Bay Rok’s meaningless guff? Let it crawl back under its rock.

  260. Colin Mccartney says:

    In addition to Morag’s post regarding a Green Yes voter who changes their mind because they struggle in an online debate, a quick look at Facebook shows Ms Lally glamming it up in ever changing profile pictures.
    8 since March.
    Anyone else have friends who care for family / Children who have the time for that?
    With a disabled child and those horrific ramps to negotiate, where is the sweat and snotters and vomit usually associated with a carers roll?
    An ordinary person? I think not!
    WARNING – the usual gruesome picture of Ed.

  261. HandandShrimp says:

    What I would like to know is why the concern trolls always pick on the Greens as their fig leaf?

  262. Grouse Beater says:

    Classic concern trolling.

    Americans classify trolling.

    For example, anything that assassinates character or brings it into disrepute is not trolling but “snarking,” named after Lewis Carroll’s poem, “The Hunting of the Snark” wherein it’s finally harrassed and disappears.

    Definitions go all the way up to narcissist and sociopath – making easier identification of miscreants eligible for court action.

  263. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Caroline, my impression is that there is only one family with the disabled child. Clare Lally (maiden name), bidie-in with Derek Steel. She is the Labour activist, member of shadow Scottish cabinet, go-to person on disabled rights and so on. Now being falsely showcased as an “ordinary Mum”.

    Due to the fact that Pat Lally’s son Derek has a wife named Clare, and Pat Lally is a Labour high-heid-yin, some confusion has arisen. I’m not entirely clear where that originated.

    I’ve not seen anything to suggest that Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lally (son and daughter-in-law of Pat) have any public profile at all, or indeed a disabled child. All the photos of Clare Lally the activist are of Miss Lally.

    No doubt someone will now demonstrate that even this is wrong. But it’s what seems to me to be the case at the moment.

  264. Pete says:

    Apart from the fact that she is miss-representing the facts, (i.e) telling lies in an effort to scare those less in the know. The Standard of state healthcare in Scotland far surpasses the same south of the border. There are a few exceptions with specialist hospitals however these hospitals currently provide cross border health provision from multiple countries. The only real risk to everyone’s healthcare is Labour and the Tories. If Scotland doesn’t break away from London rule, it will be more than our health care provision that we will have to worry about.

  265. heedtracker says:

    @ Bay Rock/Duggie don’t go, all thats being pointed here is the Times telling porkies for union again and rather blatant lies from BetterTogether, again.

    So don’t sulk Bay Rock/Duggie, tomorrow they’ll have another round of liars for the union and all for us to laugh at. As you’re a Yes vote Bay Rock/Duggie, the sneering anti Scottish democracy malice pouring out of the Press and journal here In Aberdeen today will make you proud to be a Britnat.

  266. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Alfresco Dent, @ 10 June,

    “Whatever is else Claire may or may not be she is definitely a liar, and very possibly a fool.”

    Perhaps more a fool than a liar, though that would not apply to her handlers.

    Two bottles down and cooking a bolognese sauce.

    Onwards and errr, upwards.

  267. turnip_ghost says:

    Morag,

    You are, of course, correct. Donor should have been the word I used! Don’t know why I put donator…

    *tips hat* Consider me chastised 😉

  268. desimond says:

    Has the Rev apologised to Patrick Harvie yet. it seems his website has upset his 2 voters.

    And yeah, i just put that in to annoy the rest cause I’m an SNP monsterer.

  269. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Morag Graham Kerr says:
    10 June, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Caroline, my impression is that there is only one family with the disabled child. Clare Lally (maiden name), bidie-in with Derek Steel. She is the Labour activist, member of shadow Scottish cabinet, go-to person on disabled rights and so on. Now being falsely showcased as an “ordinary Mum”.

    Due to the fact that Pat Lally’s son Derek has a wife named Clare, and Pat Lally is a Labour high-heid-yin, some confusion has arisen. I’m not entirely clear where that originated.

    I’ve not seen anything to suggest that Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lally (son and daughter-in-law of Pat) have any public profile at all, or indeed a disabled child. All the photos of Clare Lally the activist are of Miss Lally.

    No doubt someone will now demonstrate that even this is wrong. But it’s what seems to me to be the case at the moment.

    BINGO?

    ?

  270. Proud Cybernat says:

    NHS safe in the Union? Cliar!

  271. John Hamilton says:

    I think Labour have been going a bit Do Lally here.

  272. Iain More says:

    Bay Rok

    Seeking to deceive is still seeking to deceive. I am a 24/7 carer but I will be voting Yes. I don’t possess her political ambitions though and I don’t come from a political family either. But that is vacuous statement on your part.

    I however am not a political activist for any political Party and certainly not for any British Nationalist Party that is hell bent on destroying those social services that us carers depend upon for some relief. I don’t expect to be getting an invitation to sell out Scotland or its social services any time soon Bay Rok.

  273. Jim says:

    Clare Lally has indeed been involved in the Labour party for years rubbing shoulders with its executive and good pal of Des McNulty.

    She was relatively recently given a house by the council who installed a zig-zag ramp costing £40,000 which neighbours claim she often doesn’t use. Meanwhile she rents out her former council house to someone else and is in effect a landlord. Very selfish person.

  274. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Get Wee Ginger Dug to comment here?

  275. Marcia says:

    I could be classed as an ‘ordinary voter’ coming back after doing something for the Yes campaign today. No-one, being either No or Yes, who appears on TV at a stage managed event will be ordinary. That person will be vetted to make sure they don’t go ‘off-message’ and will be briefed to get the message the campaign wants to be appear on the news programme as a ‘sound bite’.

  276. Harry says:

    I’m sure there was a feature on her on The One Show a few months back. The windy ramp and Duntocher set off alarm bells.

  277. Fireproofjim says:

    Enough of this. It is not important , except to add one more to the collection of BT deceptions and half truths. Claire/Clare will not make a difference to anything so forget her.
    Meanwhile (OT) Nicola is speaking at the Edinburgh Napier University in Colinton Road, Edinburgh tomorrow at 7pm. Target audience is the undecided. Bring along a doubtful friend.

  278. Proud Cybernat says:

    Where does BT/UKOK/NOBBERS get all these Cliars?

  279. Ian Brotherhood says:

    HTF is it possible to spend 40k on a wheelchair ramp? Eh?

  280. HandandShrimp says:

    Bring along a doubtful friend.

    Or a genuine friend who has doubts

    :)

  281. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    “Where does BT/UKOK/NOBBERS get all these Cliars?

    Friends and Family?

  282. HandandShrimp says:

    Ian

    Have you seen it? I think there were less ramps involved in building the Great Pyramid, every centimetre guarded by zinc coated railings. It is a monstrosity. I can’t believe there wasn’t a simpler more aesthetically pleasing alternative.

  283. Caroline Corfield says:

    Thanks for clearing that up Morag, I was beginning to get quite confused :-)

  284. Andrew Morton says:

    I was the ‘alert reader’ who originally raised this on another Wings thread last night. I raised it purely from the point of view of SLAB/MSM misinformation and pointed out another recent example, that of Pam Duncan, a disabled contestant for the sLAB Falkirk nomination who was shown as an ‘ordinary’ person in a SLAB PPB.

    The potential Pat Lally connection did occur to me but I didn’t mention it as I wasn’t aware of any connection (and it’s of small relevance). Stu merely speculated about a connection and I’m sure he’ll be happy to remove it as and when appropriate. Let’s face it, Yes supporters try not to do evil.

  285. I just had to email it to the record,and various other pretendy newspapers.

  286. donald anderson says:

    There was an Irish Dragoon defending the retreating Highlanders at Culloden called Du Lally.

    What the nick name of the former Labour Lord Provost of Glasgow, Du Lally, was I just can’t recall.

  287. John Hamilton says:

    The access solution here would have been an external platform lift – including building work probably just one third of this cost and would not have destroyed the whole front garden. Also, much easier to use for everyone – especially in bad weather / winter. As an architect who has recently designed and overseen the installation of an external platform lift for a client and gone through the local authority grants process it depresses me to see the poor service / poor solution provided here for this family. I know it’s no consolation but Edinburgh Council were excellent to deal with on this project and could not have been more helpful. I feel for this family.

  288. Brotyboy says:

    How long before we get to the Doolally tap?

  289. Jamie Arriere says:

    @donald anderson

    The most well-known nickname he had was “Lazarus” as I remember, for the many political comebacks he made. He was kicked out in the end.

  290. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Bay Rok is totally doolally.

    Yes, I know where the cloakroom is.

  291. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Handandshrimp –

    No, haven’t seen it, although I’ve come across some crackers while leafleting. I just can’t imagine how anyone could spend that amount of dosh on one – I’m sure people manage to build houses for less.

  292. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    @Brotyboy

    I make that seven minutes…

  293. Richard Bruce says:

    Just checked twitter someone is stirring this up now. Expect thunderstorms soon.

  294. Fireproofjim says:

    @hand & shrimp
    Nice one. Doubtful friend or friend with doubts. They all have votes!

  295. pr1mate says:

    Link to experienced media performer is down

  296. john king says:

    So anyway this guy Barbazenzero
    over on Newsnet Scotland
    whitehouse.gov/…/…
    leaves this contact for Presedent Obama just lying about (very careless)I mean anyone could just, oh I don’t know, write to the President,
    some people should just be more careful.

  297. Brotyboy says:

    @Conan_the_Librarian

    Well done. Especially for having the self control not to break the 4 minute barrier.

    Still expecting a derivation.

  298. bald eagle says:

    BAY ROK

    so that’s a no then

  299. Stevie says:

    She is indeed the same women in the two pictures of the article that we seen in the picture from the better together meeting.

    A political activist – seen with Labour’s Lamont and up on a platform promoting the union under the disingenuous basis of saving the NHS (which is being deliberately underfunded and privatised in England).

    It is quite appalling that she should use her child to promote a political campaign.

    Frankly, it’s using the child that disgusts me; couldn’t care less what she says or does otherwise. Using a child is a direct way of worrying other carers with children in order to push them into a NO vote – as I said, disgraceful, morally indecent.

    Labour must be ticked off that their lies and misinformation get crushed so quickly and how they must so lament the coming of the internet.

  300. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Caroline, I’m not sure I’m right but it’s the best sense I can make of it.

    I think one of the press reports uses the names of Pat Lally’s grandchildren instead of Holly and Katie (the much-publicised “Twincesses”, Katie being the disabled child), which has compounded the confusion.

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/bloggers/getting-the-twincesses-ready-for-big-school.2012043734

    Unless someone can show evidence that Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lally have a disabled child and some profile of activism surrounding this, it’s the explanation I’m going for.

  301. TJenny says:

    It seems to me that Claire/Clare Lally was set up by BT as an Aunt Sally – ready to be knocked down by us evil cybernats as a Slabour aparatchick, but the MSM will only report that she was being attacked as a ‘Mum/carer for her disabled child’. Which is not what we are saying.

    But who knows what she has been promised by Slabour if there were to be a NO vote which there wont be, so she will continue to benefit from an unprivatised Scottish NHS after a Yes. I suggest, therefore, she has nothing to lose either way, and will continue to spout nonsense about the NHS being better off in the union.

  302. Stevie says:

    I have to say Iain More, one has profound admiration for someone like yourself who cares for someone who is in such need. I am pleased that the Scottish government appreciates the job you do.

    One hopes that you will be better compensated in an independent Scotland; as it is, a carer will look after a loved one better that the state and saves the state a huge fortune – it is only right therefore that proper compensation for carers becomes the norm as quickly as possible in iScotmald.

  303. desimond says:

    In the football world, we often hear the phrase “No player is more important than the club”. Its the same here, as others have highlighted, this is just a diversion tactic.

    NO have nothing good to say, even this claim is “Want to Keep the NHS as it is”. Its not making it better, its not helping people prosper. Its just hot air regardless of who is saying it and the fact NO are using such tactics shows how empty their message is.

    Theyre standard “Just because…” reply whenever challenged or questioned is even more hollow.

    Smile when you see such actions, shows theyre struggling.

  304. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Oopsie, I see I retain one error. Mrs. Lally does indeed spell her name as Claire. I see no sign that she is involved in politics or has a disabled child. Miss Lally, mother of the “twincesses” Holly and Katie, recipient of the assault course in her front garden, spells her name as Clare.

  305. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    @ Brotyboy

    I’m all tapped out…

  306. IcySpark says:

    Just watched the video from CNN on this page:

    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/02/28/business/scotland-and-england-better-together-affluent-apart/?hpt=hp_c5

    Seems like the only no voter in Stirling they could find to talk is described as a shop assistant but is actually a member of the Lib Dem students union:

    https://twitter.com/ChloeCampbell96

  307. Guernica says:

    Clare Lally is not an ordinary Mum. She is an extraordinary one.

  308. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bay Rok 2.20 is that you writing tommorows headlines on

    the nasty Cybernats,we’re more Alert than you thought,we

    did’nt need to unleash the Midgies on you.

    Be Alert lads n lasses, there’splenty of those people out

    to get us, read digest formulate a responce,unlike myself

    who does resort to a F or 2.

    Who’s Sitting on a Rok of the Bay Watching Time.

    Health an Safety Warning DONT do it at Delgety Bay Rok.

  309. Brotyboy says:

    O/T

    Just saw Kezia outside Dundee Rail Station. On TV later?

  310. ronnie anderson says:

    Dalgety

  311. mr thms says:

    # Jim

    This is the famous zig zag ramp….

    https://uk.news.yahoo.com/mum-wityh-disabled-daughter-campaigns-for-wheelchair-ramp—and-gets-%C2%A340-000–slalom–eyesore-143242677.html#mrrLZMJ

    “Mum with disabled daughter campaigns for wheelchair ramp – and gets £40,000 ‘slalom’ eyesore”

  312. Liquid Lenny says:

    Ian Brotherhood

    Its Simples, To get a grant you have to have three quotes from three different builders, you approach the first one(Mason A) and he looks at the job and gives you a quote, he then suggests that he gets the other quotes for you as it would save a lot of hassle. His pals Mason’s B and C
    ask what he has quoted, normally about the max Mason A thinks can get away with and submit higher quotes that are quite close to the quote of Mason A, so the council think that the price quoted is the correct price for the job.

    So Mason A gets the Job. Next time it might be Mason B who gets asked first and so on.

    NB I only using the term mason to signify a stone mason and not implying in anyway that persons who have a fondness for sexual relations with a goat are corrupt.

  313. goldenayr says:

    The most interesting thing I’ve came across today is MI6 actively recruiting in Scotland.

    They deal with “foreign” intelligence.

    I think the SiS have already decided which way the votes going.

    And it’s YES.

  314. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    The Evening Times one, however, says “husband”.

    It seems to me that at least one news outlet has become confused or is simply being sloppily inaccurate.

    We’ve established fairly clearly that Miss Clare Lally (partner of Derek Steel) has a disabled daughter and is a prominent and long-time Labour activist. All the photos are of this person, including the screen capture of the BT event.

    Conversely Mrs. Claire Lally (nee Morton, wife of Derek Lally) does not seem to have any political profile (beyond being the daughter-in-law of Pat Lally), and does not seem to have a disabled child. She’s an ordinary woman whose identity has become confused with Miss Lally because of the remarkable similarity in the names, and the Labour party connection.

  315. pauline stewart says:

    I looked for a connection between Clare and Labour once I saw Andrews post.Which there was from The Daily Record. Now not once have we maligned this girl as I just wanted to find out if BT were lying (again) which it seems that they were (again). Don’t fib BT we are not stupid and we will research if necessary. I am sorry but it is too much of a coincidence.

  316. steveasaneilean says:

    So drop the Pat Lally bits from the original article above – nothing lost in the message and no excuse to hound us for mis-representation

  317. JPJ2 says:

    So it appears that it was a LABOUR run council that spent a fortune on this ludicrous ramp for this Labour/No campaigner (who complained about it, but still supports Labour).

    This is now beyond ridiculous.

  318. manandboy says:

    Better Together – how appealing. No thanks

    Tories plotting to form a coalition with Northern Ireland MPs to avoid sharing power again with Clegg
    EXCLUSIVE: Senior Tories examining plan to form a government with DUP
    David Cameron needs to win more than 326 seats to secure outright majority
    If he falls just short, could rely on 8 Democratic Unionist MPs to take power
    Polls suggest a narrow result is possible at the 2015 general election
    Around 40 Tory MPs are ready to block a second coalition with Lib Dems

    Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2653992/Tories-plotting-form-coalition-Northern-Ireland-MPs-avoid-sharing-power-Clegg.html#ixzz34FxVkvZe
    Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

  319. velofello says:

    The Ramp; Yes it is possible to spend £40K on such a structure. To take this further we need Bay Rok. to ensure the detail is correct.

    Claire Lally rents her privately owned house? True or false?

    Claire secured and accepted a council house in an elevated position with three sets of steps leading to the front door. Having a disabled daughter Clair applies for disabled access provision to this house with the unsuitable access.

    The Council are obliged to respond, and either through incompetence, or….ahem, “best served cold” motives , design and install this ridiculous ramp structure at a cost of £40K of taxpayers’ money. And to the detriment of neighbouring houses.

    Maybe this ramp structure wasn’t quite what Claire had expected. A motorised ramp in an enclosed structure would have been much more convenient and aesthetically pleasing.

    But then the house is on two levels, is that really suitable? Is there more access requests yet to comee?

    Bay Rok. Has Claire really been able to retain and rent out her house, secure a council house, and then incur £40K of taxpayers money for The Ramp. And be an ordinary citizen?

    Do you understand that the NHS in Scotland is independent, but reliant on the threatened Barnet Formula funding? Why doesn’t Claire?

    No spite, no sneers, just want clarification please.

  320. almci1975 says:

    @ian brotherhood, £40000 would go easy on that when you consider architects, quantity surveyors, structural engineers, health and safety co ordinators. Then you have wages for the actual workers who will build it , the clerk of works to oversee it. Then you add on the price of god knows how much type1 and numerous cubes of concrete re bar etc, then the price of a concrete jaeger, and pump and any other plant required It soon mounts up mate.

  321. ronnie anderson says:

    That ramp at Mrs Lally’s home, is a tipical example as to why JoLo & Co’s proposal of more devolved power to Local
    Authority’s should never see the light of day.

    A Funicular Railway could have been build for less.

  322. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Get it right. This is all about CLARE Lally, partner of Derek Steel.

    CLAIRE Lally, wife of Derek Lally, has nothing to do with it and has been dragged in inadvertently.

  323. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Get it right. This is all about CLARE Lally, partner of Derek Steel.
    CLAIRE Lally, wife of Derek Lally, has nothing to do with it and has been dragged in inadvertently.”

    Yes, that seems to be the case. However, given that newspapers have published contradictory accounts of both the spelling and marital status of the woman on the “Better Together” stage yesterday, confusion is/was legitimate.

  324. Geoff Huijer says:

    Bay Rok ‘is on a Committee for Carers’ and in exasperation here tells everyone to ‘fuck off’.

    Not really what I would expect from a ‘carer’.

    Hope I never end up being ‘cared’ for by someone with this type of attitude.

    Although given my experience of the ‘care’ given to dementia patients in Cameron Hospital near Leven nothing should surprise me.

  325. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Oh, and CLARE Lally, mother of disabled Katie, is Miss Lally.

    As opposed to Pat Lally’s private and non-involved daughter-in-law CLAIRE, who is Mrs. Lally.

  326. manandboy says:

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2558461/Rampant-lunacy-Council-pays-40-000-fit-10-level-60m-eyesore-home-disabled-girl-needed-simple-ramp.html
    __________________________________________________________

    If I lived in a council house in that location with a view over the hills and just across from a smart estate,
    and I was offered another house more suited for access for my girl in a wheelchair,
    I wouldn’t take it either.

    A poster has said that this girl Clare Lally sold her house before moving into this Council house.
    And she’s been on the Scottish shadow cabinet for 2 years.

    Then £40,000 is spent by the Council on this ramp and she’s got no say in the matter?

    Join the dots. This is the Labour Party we’re dealing with here !!

  327. Danny says:

    I have known Clare for years and years and even i got a sore head trying to work this mince out , CLARE Lally has NEVER been married for a start , comedy gold wings thank you was a hard day today but you gave me a good giggle there

  328. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I have known Clare for years and years and even i got a sore head trying to work this mince out , CLARE Lally has NEVER been married for a start ,”

    Go tell the Clydebank Post that, then.

  329. muttley79 says:

    I would just say to Rev Stu that he needs to carry on doing what he has been doing for the last few years. SLAB do not like critical scrutiny, particularly when it involves their patronage and self preservation networks.

    The reason the Unionists are getting angry is because this website has exposed the almost constant duplicity, barefaced lies of SLAB in particular. There can be no greater compliment than to have abuse directed against Wings, as it shows it is shining a light on the malfeasance at the heart of Unionist Labour in Scotland.

    The truth is this should have happened decades ago; a proper democratic mainstream media in Scotland should have exposed them long ago. It simply did not happen because it was not in the interests of either SLAB or the MSM. Consequently, many in SLAB think they can get away with almost anything, certainly these endless lies. It is shameful that an apparently well connected SLAB activist has pretended to be an ordinary member of the public, and the MSM for not even doing basic checks on her background.

    In conclusion, ‘Mon the Wings! D:

  330. almci1975 says:

    To be fair, the ramp has to drop a fair distance to the ground, it has a pretty high rise and not much going. It’s just the same as putting a stair in a house and having to wheel it or create landings. Also there is regs on how much of a gradient is permitted over a certain distance. Sure there might have been other solutions, you need to find out why that was seen as the best design solution.

  331. TheItalianJob says:

    @Geoff Huijer

    My Dad suffers from Dementia and is presently in the Cameron for his second stint there in so many months. I’ve been up there visiting him last time he was in. I thought he was getting treated fine.

  332. Brotyboy says:

    A Funicular Railway could have been build for less.

    ROFL

  333. manandboy says:

    “Mum with disabled daughter campaigns for wheelchair ramp – and gets £40,000 ‘slalom’ eyesore”.

    Council has a statutory duty to provide access.

    Zero requirement for 2 yr campaign by a labour Party member of the Scottish Shadow Cabinet.

    Campaign ? This story is simply not credible as anyone with an incapacitated relative at home will tell you.

  334. ronnie anderson says:

    Sos about the spelling on some of my posts, its the eyes,
    the eyes they see but the heid dizzna engage.

  335. Brotyboy says:

    @ almci1975

    It seems to me to have a lot of going in it, if you look at a few of the pics to be found. Google images of this person and her partner’s names and it looks like it’s a fair old distance from the door to the pavey.

    Seems to me it’s a case of, ‘You want a ramp? I’ll give you a ‘kin ramp.’

  336. ronnie anderson says:

    Brotboy, ROFL why did ah spell Funicular wrang.

  337. SquareHaggis says:

    ReD Lally, YElla LaLly HiC!

  338. Dorothy Devine says:

    Your spelling was perfect Ronnie – it’s the wonderful idea that makes folk chuckle!

  339. EphemeralDeception says:

    From the context I deduct that Claire, as an official advisor, has therefore recommended that the SHS and RHS is merged into One UK wide body with all the privatisation that is manifest South of the border.

    The question is if this is now actually Scottish Labour Policy or a UKOK JAM promise?

  340. scottish_skier says:

    RIP Better Together.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27779131

    Tories? No Thanks
    Trident? No Thanks
    Bedroom Tax? No Thanks
    House of Lords? No Thanks
    UKIP? No Thanks

    Endless possibilities.

  341. almci1975 says:

    @brotyboy, yep it looks hideous, probably a bit of malice involved in the decision on what type of ramp they were giving her. But as I said you would need to have a good look at the site and check up on all the regulations. The cooncil like covering their arse to any legal claims in future, and if they can over pay a friend for say concrete, that’s just a bonus lol.

  342. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Yes, that seems to be the case. However, given that newspapers have published contradictory accounts of both the spelling and marital status of the woman on the “Better Together” stage yesterday, confusion is/was legitimate.

    Indeed, it’s an easy confusion to fall into and it seems at least one of the mainstream reports fell into it too.

    However, now it’s clear, I think we need a wee edit to the article. Maybe take out the bit saying it would be an astronomical coincidence if this Clare wasn’t Pat Lally’s DinL and replace with a wee sentence saying she isn’t?

    Yes I know you didn’t say she was, but there’s a heavy implication there.

  343. Votadini Jeannie says:

    Well, it looks as if the Rev was right in saying the chances of this lady being Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law were astronomically high.

    Now we know she isn’t, but it was correct to question and investigate this thoroughly (which the papers reporting “Derek” as her husband clearly didn’t do).

    It is so tiresome to see Labour yet again trying to pass off their politcal friends/allies/party members are “ordinary” members of the public that I think we’ve all reached the stage where it’s actually expected now.

    Miss Lally’s view of the NHS is quite astounding for someone in her position: either she is being set up by BT who must be revelling in her malleable ignorance, or she is knowingly complicit in this deception. Either way, she has ruined her own credibility and hopefully dent BT’s even more.

  344. Brotyboy says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson

    I don’t know, it just made me laugh.

  345. Papadox says:

    HMG in the guise of the Scotland lover Dave Cameron has bribed the Swedish foreign minister to bad mouth and stab Scotland in the back. O what a friend we have in David.

    I BET THE BT MOB ARE SO PROUD OF THEIR MASTERS AND BACK STABBERS.

  346. almci1975 says:

    @brotyboy when I said going I mean from the pavement straight to the front door, god knows how much it drops over that distance, but I’m sure that a ramp straight down would have a ridiculous pitch and be useless for the purpose of disabled access.

  347. Brotyboy says:

    @ almci1975

    I knew what you meant; like a stair with its risers and whatever the other bits are called, treads? That’s why I said the distance from the door to the pavey looked a fair way.

  348. geeo says:

    Just a wee word on the “bay rok” saga.

    People on here do not need to justify their comments. As far as i can see, the comments have been about BT lies.

    If bay rok has an issue with that, then tough.
    It is pretty obvious that bay rok came on here to try provoke wingers to abuse him/her to push the well spun angry cybernat agenda.

    Any such story in the MSM will confirm the above comments.

    On a personal note, i love watching an obvious troll going from fake outrage from its “fellow” posters, to all out foul mouthed abuse when they fail miserably to get the reaction they want.

    “bay rok” IMO, is possibly the Lally woman herself.
    If not, then is reasonable to assume this bay rok had permission to give out her family history and children’s names included in over personal detail.
    Remember this person claims to be an activist for carers right etc, and as such would know such behaviour was not acceptable.

  349. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I think that last (geeo) is verging on paranoid fantasy. Bay Rok didn’t reveal anything that wasn’t already extremely public knowledge. Clare has been gracing the Herald with periodic reports about the progress of her “twincesses” as she describes Katie and Holly.

    The flounce off with “I think I’ll just vote No because of you rude people” is classic concern troll behaviour though.

  350. almci1975 says:

    @brotyboy yep, treads and risers you are correct, as you say it is a good distance to the pavement, but it’s quite a drop also mate. I only had a quick look at the pic, you would probably need a ramp way longer than the distance you have to get the gradient within regulations.

  351. Danny says:

    oh and Duntocher is not 3 miles from Clydebank it is in Clydebank but dont tell anyone from Duntocher they get a bit touchy about it

  352. Geoff Huijer says:

    TheItalianJob @ 6.15pm

    Sorry to hear your dad is in hospital.

    Omly thing I would say is make sure ALL his
    personal belongings are kept by you including
    any rings (valuables).

    My mum’s 11-stone diamonds engagement ring
    disappeared in a ward of two & two weeks later
    a disclaimer was produced to say it wasn’t hospital’s
    responsibility.

  353. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Makes my loss of a pair of rather worn ankle socks (given to Mum because she said her feet were cold in bed) look pretty trivial!

  354. Geoff Huijer says:

    I didn’t remove it because she had only taken it off twice that I know of in about 55 years and that was with soap etc to get it over her knuckle.

    Anyhoo – it’s all in the past now.

    i don’t mean to alarm – just advice prudence.

  355. Weedeochandorris says:

    Some women when they get married keep their maiden name, it’s a modern thingie.

  356. Paula Rose says:

    Surpise, surprise – I’m getting angry, I’m not a gentleman (David Briggs 12:59) and maybe Desimond, dear you should behave (3:46) this is yet another attempt to insert wedges between the various parties that are the Yes campaign – that baying pebble and the yappy thing are to be ignored.

  357. keaton says:

    Some women when they get married keep their maiden name, it’s a modern thingie.

    I hear they’re phasing out Betamax too.

  358. Weedeochandorris says:

    Doh! Partners, not married :-)

  359. Weedeochandorris says:

    Thanks Keaton.

  360. Paula Rose says:

    @ Keaton – yes dear it’s been normal in Scotland for a long long time.

  361. TheItalianJob says:

    @Geoff at 7.03pm

    Likewise sorry to hear about your mum. Not good about her ring. We do check dad’s clothes and belongings routinely. All he’s gone missing is a box of tissues.

  362. Paula Rose says:

    Anyway – what’s normal or ordinary about us Scots anyway?

  363. Paula Rose says:

    btw – I’m an English Scot.

  364. Paul Martin says:

    Standard. The Better Together Edinburgh leaflet at The Meadows had photos and quotes from 3 punters. Took less than 2 minute’s work to spot them as Labour activist faces doing the Tories dirty-work via BT. Like I say, standard. Labour have been doing the same on pre-election leaflets for decades !

  365. goldenayr says:

    Just love the rebranding of Better Together.

    It’s now known as “No Thanks”.

    I’m having a ball on the Scotsman site with it.

  366. Croompenstein says:

    @Weedeochandorris – The modern thing is for the bride to keep her maiden name and hyphenate her husbands name giving a double barrelled surname like Smith-Jones and they pass this on to the kids!

    Works ok until you get something like Emily Small marrying a David Cock and then the unfortunate offspring would be William Small-Cock

  367. Andy smith says:

    Been trying to follow this since 7 o clock,got lost at the 18th cla(i)re and 16th Derek. Thought it might be a Francie & Josie sketch. There were these 2 chaps at the door, knock knock..is clare in? ..naw, she’s at Arbroath,..I’ll just wait til she’s finished then!
    Time for a lie down methinks.

  368. ronnie anderson says:

    @Brotyboy & D Devine,ah’ll lets you,s intae a secret,

    Am a serious personexcept when ah rip the Pith fae a blut

    orange.

  369. Brotyboy says:

    Am a serious personexcept when ah rip the Pith fae a blut

    orange.

    That’s a bit of a lisp you’ve developed there, Ronnie. 😉

  370. Dcanmore says:

    so is the full title now ‘Better Together No Thanks’ … how apt :)

  371. Paula Rose says:

    No it’s ‘Better Nob Orders U KOK No Thanks Together’ I think…

  372. Frogmella says:

    Mosstrooper says:
    10 June, 2014 at 1:33 pm
    I know nothing of Clare Lally and care little apart from some human empathy. I would however advise her to consider the two following aphorisms.

    1)If you stick your head above the parapet expect to get shot at.

    2) If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    Oh! one other thought.

    If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

    Purely from the perspective of an amateur dabbler in etymology and lover of curious figures of speech, I felt compelled to mind to you the following turn of phrase; if you lie soon wi’ dugs, you get up with fleas, llz.

  373. Brotyboy says:

    Surprised on one has posted this link re the ramp.

    http://www.fsdc.org.uk/blogs/clare-derek-twincesses/what-spurred-on-my-campaigning

    This makes for interesting reading, for two reasons.

    cut a long story short, we sold the house we were in and bought the other one.; this clarifies several possible issues.

    as the family own their home they are not entitled to help from the council as they are homeowners. Excuseeee me, what does this mean?? Yes I had read right, Katie gets penalised or discriminated against because her parents pay a mortgage and not rent! What is the difference – Since when did our kids start being means tested! . I find this particularly interesting; wasn’t this the sort of thing which was implicit in Johann Lamont’s ‘something for nothing’ statement? That benefits were to be means tested in future if Labour had anything to do with it? They certainly were not going to be ‘universal’.

    Or am I thick?

  374. Frogmella says:

    Frogmella says:
    Your comment is awaiting moderation.
    10 June, 2014 at 9:02 pm
    Mosstrooper says:
    10 June, 2014 at 1:33 pm
    I know nothing of Clare Lally and care little apart from some human empathy. I would however advise her to consider the two following aphorisms.

    1)If you stick your head above the parapet expect to get shot at.

    2) If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    Oh! one other thought.

    If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

    Purely from the perspective of an amateur dabbler in etymology and lover of curious figures of speech, I felt compelled to mind to you the following turn of phrase; if you lie doon wi’ dugs, you get up with fleas, llz.

  375. Paula Rose says:

    I hope there’s no benefits being claimed or spare bedrooms – just saying like…

  376. geeo says:

    Paranoid fantasy ?
    Moi ?

    Without being offensive, i like my fantasies to involved Falkirk FC winning the league.
    More delusional fantasy really…lol

  377. Paula Rose says:

    ( Do Falkirk play footie? )

  378. keaton says:

    So now that it appears to be accepted that there’s probably no relation to Pat Lally, is the implication going to be removed from the article? It’s clearly unfair to leave it in and detracts from the (otherwise justified) point of the thing.

  379. K1 says:

    scottish skier re the link you posted, this from Jacob Rees Mogg on whether Cameron should resign after a Yes Vote: “It would not be seen as his personal failure if that happened. It would be questions for the ‘No’ campaign to answer.” says it all.

    https://archive.today/sxyE4

    Indeed as Rev and others have been pointing out for what seems like eternity, Labour are the fall guys in this charade. The Tories protected themselves in the event of a Yes vote. The rUK Labour are finished because they lost Scotland. If No vote; Cameron takes credit, knight in shinning armour for saving the UK. The Labour party will be wiped out in Scotland if No vote is fiddled (’cause it won’t be because we lost)this was always a win win from the Tories POV. Just not completely clear why they risked this, where they really that arrogant that it would be a No? They could have easily inserted the Devo, so it seems it was an all or nothing gamble, with fall back Labour taking the hit?

    Where’s the true agenda in this from a Tory perspective, in terms of the real loss that is about to hit home. I mean it’s all very well ‘saving face’ after the fact. But in reality is there any good reason to let Scotland flourish from their perspective?

  380. Paula Rose says:

    Yeah – what the frack is going on?

  381. punklin says:

    Just to point out BTW – as it is so rare – a relatively balanced and serious attempt to cover the referendum in a mainstream newspaper:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/08/scottish-independence-referendum-galvanises-debate

    I for one don’t expect pro-Yes stuff (of course we’ve come to need it, to try and redress the balance a tiny bit)- but I do yearn for intelligence-respecting, considered journalism. As much as I am thoroughly fed up with those who fail so miserably to provide such journalism, so I want to say a wee thank you to the Guardian for this piece at least.

  382. Paula Rose says:

    punklin dear, without the monkey puzzle tree does the Guardian have quite the same allure?

  383. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Have just seen the images of that ramp.

    FFS. If it went straight from the door to the street Eddie the Eagle would turn up for a shot on it.

  384. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @almci1975 –

    Do you be AlexMci of old?

    If so, have been meaning to e-mail you to find out if all is well. I trust it is. Good to see you back.

    If it’s not you, apologies, but welcome. (This mistaken identity thing is spreading…)

  385. Taranaich says:

    I don’t actually care how nice a person Ms Lally is when she’s actively campaigning with a body which has been repeatedly proven to have lied & misrepresented to the people of Scotland on just about every single issue. As long as she’s campaigning with Better Together, she is supporting a cause which fills me with disgust and sorrow, as surely as if she supported UKIP or Britain First.

    She can be the greatest supermum in the world, but as long as she’s an activist for a group which is dedicated to stopping Scotland from it’s only real chance at escaping the monstrous reforms from Westminster, then I’m sure as hell not going to mind my tongue for the sake of causing offense. Somehow I think she’s thick skinned enough.

    Of COURSE your Blair MacDougalls and newspapers are going to take the cowardly, snivelling, craven route of showing how VILE those cybernats are, attacking a poor wee mother of a disabled child. How many disabled children are living in abject poverty because of the Westminster parties? How many are dead?

    Never forget that. Ms Lally is campaigning to remain in a political construct which let this happen, and actively opposing a political construct which has proven to have taken measures to maintain public services from taking full control of its own affairs. I don’t care how nice you are, how much good you’ve done, how great you are – nobody is exempt from criticism.

    Nobody.

  386. The village observer says:

    Bay Rok asked at 2:20pm “wtf does having a ridiculously complicated wheelchair ramp put up by your cooncil have to do with anything? Will you be suggesting that she gets preferential wheely-bin collection next?”. It isn’t rediculously complicated…H&S say it has to have a maximum incline and due to the overall height of house that was chosen by the tenant, the resulting ramp was all that would suffice…as for the preferential wheely-bin collection? There’s only one address that has 2 “black” bins (and a crazy ramp) 😉

  387. slackshoe says:

    “It seems to me that Claire/Clare Lally was set up by BT as an Aunt Sally – ready to be knocked down by us evil cybernats as a Slabour aparatchick, but the MSM will only report that she was being attacked as a ‘Mum/carer for her disabled child’.”

    And… it looks like you’re probably right:
    https://twitter.com/blairmcdougall/status/476476795441934338/photo/1

  388. TJenny says:

    slackshoe – aye and the time lapse in the attack on us evil cybernats (Alert Readers) down to waiting for the unionist rags’ next editions to be printed.

  389. manandboy says:

    When Clare Lally was allocated this house, the fact of the child’s disability would have required the involvement of the Social Work Dept., probably in the person of an Occupational Therapist. It is hard to imagine an OT recommending a move into this house with such serious access issues for this family. The child’s parents themselves MUST have known this move was a bad idea given their need for easy access with a disabled child in a wheelchair.
    As I’ve said before, this property is in a very attractive location with excellent views and privacy and situated across the road from a newly built estate of private dwellings.
    The ramp is both an eyesore and a monument. But to what I can’t make up my mind except to say it’s not on the bright side of human activity.

  390. squarego says:

    Better Together facebook page irate comments with accompanying Daily Telegraph headline – “Web Attacks on Mother Who Spoke Up For Union”.

  391. creag an tuirc says:

    This whole debacle seems like this to me :-)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ9f2rnjB84

  392. Grouse Beater says:

    Boris has just spent over £200,000 of public money on water cannon, justified “in case of disorder in London this summer.”

    Lovely place to live, London.

    Vote No for more water cannon.

  393. AlexMcI says:

    @ianbrotherhood, yes it’s me mate, the name change thing is weird, my iPhone keeps using that instead of the one I use for wings, must need to clear the phone as I keep forgetting to check which name is there before I post Ian. Yep I’m good, same old struggle to keep the head above water. How about you? All good?. Still been reading Ian just not finding much time to get involved in disscussions. But I can see that you have been busy, keep it up mate, massive respect for all you manage to do.

  394. Another Union Dividend says:

    Inaudible mumble from BBC and UK press over Darling’s outrageous slur on one million SNP supporters.

    Meanwhile the BBC continues its attack on Scottish Government and NHS. Call Louise White at BBC RADIO SCOTLAND MORNING CALL
    Call 0500 92 95 00. Text 80295.
    Email morningcallscotland [at] bbc [dot] co [dot] uk

    It’s time folk stood up for the separate Scottish NHS and contrast the position in Scotland with that in England which will become the norm if we vote No in September.

  395. MochaChoca says:

    One Better Together activist outed as an.. errrm.. Better Together activist: National outrage

    40% – 45% of Scottish voting public accused of being NAZI sympathisers: Radio silence

  396. Billy Mac says:

    May have been posted in one of the above posts but even Jackie Baillie says she ‘s in the labour cabinet.
    http://www.jackiebaillie.co.uk/baillie-welcomes-clydebank-mum-of-the-year-to-labours-shadow-cab

  397. SquareHaggis says:

    Helter-SkelterGate!

    Nup, can’t be, it doesn’t have a gate …

  398. James says:

    This appears to have grown arms and legs and is being ranted about on the better together page with outrage at apparent vile abuse!

  399. Bay Rok says:

    Good. They are right, it is vile abuse, and I hope someone clips your “Wings” by introducing higher standards. The last thing the Yes campaign needs is to be associated with this kind of gutter abuse masquerading as journalism. I requested this page be removed immediately as soon as I saw it yesterday, and it wasn’t. Tough.

  400. James says:

    Bay Rok, ‘vile abuse’. Simply stating it over and over doesn’t make it true! Please highlight for us obviously less astute than yourself how this article constitutes vile abuse, or abuse of any kind, and is in anyway personally attacking Clare.

  401. Juteman says:

    @Bay Rok.
    You think it was ok for BT to pretend this Labour party activist, and member of the shadow cabinet, was an ordinary member of the public, and not a politucian?
    Btw, i can’t read any vile abuse, but i can see lies being exposed.

  402. John Doe says:

    Why did her Twitter biog used to say “CLP secretary”?
    http://www.twellow.com/clarelally

  403. Caroline says:

    Etiquette and Formatting Rule No.1:

    ‘Write as if an undecided voter is reading’

  404. Bob W says:

    @Bay Rok

    The only abuse, vile or otherwise I’ve seen on this thread belongs to you. Suck it up and accept the fact that portraying someone as an ordinary member of the public, when they are not, is, at the least disingenuous, if not downright misleading.

  405. galamcennalath says:

    The thought did occur to me, as it did others, that the whole ‘nice Labour lady’ thing was a set up to generate MSM fooder about ‘vile cybernats’.

    The problem with that hypothesis is it required planning and sophistication which no one from BT/MSM has shown to date!

    BT/MSN have been working hard over the months, granted, but anything sophisticated, well planned and executed … nope, not their style.

  406. Jim Bo says:

    Rev’s on Radio Scotland against a “Neutral” who believes undoubtedly that the MSM is biased. Very interesting!

  407. bookie from hell says:

    is clare lally a plumber?

  408. Derek M says:

    lol higher standards still pretending to be a concerned yes voter are we.
    If you havnt figured out what wings does yet then you are not a yes voter ,here they dismantle lies to enlighten the people of Scotland to the every day deceit they are exposed to by MSM, its called investigative journalism something i should say which is extremely lacking in the MSM,or why else would they suggest this woman is an ordinary person and not a slab activist.
    Oh and how long this time before you tell us all to f off and throw your toys out the pram hmmm ?

  409. Onwards says:

    Bay Rok, I am now 100% convinced you are a troll.

    Any sincere supporter of independence would be disgusted by a Labour activist misleading voters on the NHS in order to campaign for the union.

    I guess you would rather see millions more being spent on Trident bombs, rather than being invested in the Scottish NHS or increasing carer’s allowances.

  410. Walter Scott says:

    On the BBC’s website today Mrs Lally said she was “in tears” She never said if it was because she had been described as Pat Lally’s daughter in law or not. Surely Pat’s not that bad a person that she was so upset & insulted to be named as a relative of the great man

  411. Walter Scott says:

    And Johanne’s making the most or it. Does she just go around waiting to become furious & to order Salmond to sack someone?

  412. Phil Robertson says:

    According to no less a source than Alex Salmond, Ms Lally is “an ordinary mother and she’s absolutely entitled to express a view”.

    Might be time to upgrade your half-hearted retraction to something more substantial and to move it to a more prominent position.

    Your posting is simply one in a long line of negative, “play the man, not the ball” stuff. Have you run out of anything positive to say?

  413. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Walter S., the lady in question is Miss Lally, not Mrs. Lally. That’s the confusion.

    I suppose the implied smear in mistaking her for Pat Lally’s DinL is that her position might be seen as being due to nepotism and Labour party old-boy back-scratching. It’s a bit of a stretch though.

    It’s just a shame the mistake was ever made. The whole thing is a bloody scandal, this perpetual wheeling out of Labour party candidates and appointees as “ordinary voters”. The DinL thing distracts.

  414. Another Union Dividend says:

    JK Rowling’s donation plus news that Labour are employing twelve full time regional organisers and BT are using full time bloggers to dominate online forums and disrupt pro YES sites prompted me to find out that staff costs are not included in the spending limits which together with using call centres down south and the backing of the UK press means that resources wise the YES campaign, despite the Weir’s largesse, is up against it.

    Therefore I am going to donate £1000 to the Yes campaign but the wife will kill me if she finds out whilst saying we cant afford a short break holiday until after September!

  415. James says:

    Phil Robertson, of course she is entitled to express her views, who said she wasn’t? And are other not equally entitled to point out the error in her views? Also, who is playing the man? It’s getting a little tiring pointing out that there was no personal attack on this woman in any way the point of the article was to highlight BT’s misleading of the public by portraying this woman as an ordinary voter with no political affiliations.

  416. Andrew Morton says:

    @Phil Robertson 1:44pm

    Spare us your outrage. As you well know this article was about one thing and one thing only, that is the description by the Times of Clare Lally as an ordinary voter as though she had been collared off the street by Blair McDougall when in fact she is deeply involved with the Labour Party in Scotland and has a semi official position as an advisor to the Shadow Cabinet.

    At no stage was it claimed that she was related to Pat Lally, merely the similarity of names was noted. What I find intriguing is that SLAB and their followers appear to believe that to be linked to Pat Lally is a shameful thing. I wonder what his family think about that?

    Nobody has any issues with Ms Lally despite what she may or may not have said about the Scottish NHS at the meeting.

  417. Croompenstein says:

    @Phil Robertson – Chris and Colin Weir have suffered much more abuse than anyone. This lady has not been abused, the organistaion that she stands for has rightly been called out for lying to Scots voters.

    Oh and playing the man – Kim Jong Il – nuff said

  418. Stuart Insh says:

    I’m a bit confused with this whole thing…

    The obituary of Peggy Lally (Pat Lally’s wife) mentions son ‘Derek’, daughter in Law ‘Claire’ etc..

    Yet Alex Salmond’s adviser has been forced to apologise for suggesting it and that it’s not true that she’s Pat Lally’s daughter in law..

    Can anyone explain?!

  419. Phil Robertson says:

    @Andrew Morton
    “At no stage was it claimed that she was related to Pat Lally, merely the similarity of names was noted.”

    Then why mention it?

    “Nobody has any issues with Ms Lally despite what she may or may not have said about the Scottish NHS at the meeting.”

    No? Then read the posting again, especially the bit that says Ms Lally is “prepared to lie on command”.

  420. Votadini Jeannie says:

    @Stuart Insh

    There are two Clair Lallys.

    One is spelled Clare, she is unmarried and lives with her partner Derek. She is the one who spoke at the Better Together? No Thanks! rally.

    The other is Claire and is married to Derek Lally, son of Pat Lally.

    The coincidence of names is remarkable, but nevertheless a coincidence, leading to mistaken identity.

  421. Lamphun says:

    With the donated Harry Potter money the BT campaign can now afford to buy themselves some grassroots supporters. Ms. Lally and other actors can now slide offstage.

  422. Billy Mac says:

    Reporting Scotland earlier having a dig at Scottish Nationalists about that wumin who lied to the nation on live telly at NO meeting getting abuse cause someone dared to suggest her father in law was a labour politician.

    Not one word about the porkies she was telling while on camera!

    Ah yes, impartial reporting from the BBC-not!

  423. a2 says:

    just me but I kind of think there was a bit of naivety to think this story was not going to be seized upon as “attack on caring mother” no matter what it actually said.

    however… it’s not nearly anywhere as harsh as it’s being made out to be which why it should of course stay exactly where it is so that the curious can read what actually constitutes “extreme vile cybernattery” and contemplate the exaggeration.

    Removing would let BT claim whatever they want about it.

  424. Bay Rok says:

    Clare Lally, as I have pointed out, is “an ordinary person” in that she is not a paid politician. Sure, she is an carers and Labour Party activist, and sure, she opposes Independence. In those capacities she was appointed as an unpaid carers adviser to the Labour Shadow cabinet, to help make sure their policies were carer-friendly. All of which is very public-spirited. That does not make her personally fair game to any stalking or speculation, and the error of this article was to paint her out to be there on a platform by virtue of a) political ambitions b) nepotism. c) a politician pretending to be an ordinary citizen.

    Anyone who knows Clare as I do (and several other contributors do) will know that she is far too busy going in and out of hospitals and carting for her very sick kid to even think about a political career.

    After this error was exposed quite early yesterday contributors to this thread appear to have been in collective denial, refusing to apologise or pull the offending error, and furthermore, making matters even worse by making all kinds of stupid, ignorant, and plain wrong assumptions that I must be an agent-provocateur etc. Which are plain paranoid. I am also a carer activist, an environmental campaigner, a yes supporter, and an ordinary citizen.

    There is one way out of this hole which you have dug for yourselves: the article should be withdrawn and a fulsome and sincere apology offered to Clare for gross intrusion into her private life as an ordinary citizen. Nothing else will suffice.

  425. David Briggs says:

    ‘Yes’ have been pestering me for donations lately.

    Two minutes of Sarah Boyack and a lot of sweary words forced me back to the keyboard.

    Blair Jenkins in an e-mail asking for money and I responded. Use my money wisely Blair.

    Smears and lies have unintended consequences Sarah.

  426. Andrew Morton says:

    @BayRok 3:21pm

    This is getting tiresome. I don’t think you will find a single person on this thread who doesn’t think that Clare Lally is a wonderful person who is bringing up a disabled child in difficult circumstances and I praise her for that.

    Anyone who is actively involved with a political party rather than a non political organisation is part of that party organisation. I am a retired person. If I was an advisor to the SNP on Pensioner affairs and agreed to be involved as a member of the platform party at an official meeting then I would not be surprised if people had views about how I was introduced (an ordinary member of the public?) or the views I expressed. I don’t know what she said at the meeting but other people have listened to recordings of her remarks and take issue with their truthfulness. They may be wrong, she may be right, but you can’t expect to gag legitimate comment by saying that anyone with a disabled child is off limits.

  427. Andrew Morton says:

    @David Briggs 3:29pm

    I too was being pestered for money by Yes Scotland and I was going to pass this time, but all the twisting and distortion of this story by Blair McDougall and his acolytes changed my mind and I punted him a wedge of dosh this afternoon.

  428. Bay Rok says:

    On the contrary, the fact that this article is still here displays a serious error of judgement and will not help the Yes campaign one bit.

  429. Nana Smith says:

    @Andrew Morton

    Ditto,the ladies in my group have just emptied their purses.

  430. Andrew Morton says:

    @Bay Rok

    You don’t by any chance live in Woking, do you?

  431. Bob W says:

    @Baying Rok

    IYNSVHI?

  432. Vestas says:

    I find it interesting that Bay Rok hasn’t educated his friend about the NHS given his background in Public Health Management, 1982 – 1984 at Manchester Business School.

    He’s either a public policy researcher or a market researcher depending on where you look. No idea who he works for, others can find out easy enough I guess.

    He does indeed know Clare Lally & he’s posted plenty of likes for pro-independence stuff on Youtube.

    Apart from the first point (which does bother me) he seems on the level.

  433. Bob W says:

    @Baying Rok

    oops

    IYNSVHO?

  434. David Briggs says:

    @Bay Rok

    Keep posting/posturing and the money flow will increase to support ‘Yes’. More people will turn towards Independence for Scotland through your efforts.

    A heart felt thanks.

  435. Nana Smith says:

    This nonsense is being spewed in the daily retard rag if anyone wants to comment

  436. Gillie says:

    A Labour activist is not an ‘ordinary’ member of the public who may or may not have a view on matters, e.g. independence.

    Activists spout the party line, ordinary people do not – they express their own views.

    A good example is Gillian Duffy.

    To tout Clare Lally as such is highly misleading.

  437. Stuart Insh says:

    @Votadini Jeannie

    So do both Claire & Clare have disabled children?

  438. Votadini Jeannie says:

    @Stuart Insh

    Claire Lally has not put herself in the public eye so her children, if any, are not known and it would, I think, be unwise to speculate further.

    Clare Lally, on the other hand, has placed herself and her disabled child in the public eye, via both her blog for The Herald and her role in the Labour Shadowy Cabinet.

  439. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Now John Reid’s getting into it on Newsdrive.

    Keep the heid folks.

  440. Stuart Insh says:

    @Votadini Jeannie

    Thanks for clearing that up for me!

  441. TD says:

    Bay Rok
    I did say that I would desist from this conversation, but as you keep repeating your gross distortions, I feel the need to re-join.

    As others have said, Clare is to be admired for her dedication to her children and for championing the cause of carers. But that does not make her an angel and it does not mean that she cannot be criticised if she misleads the public, is disingenuous, allows herself to be used by cynical power brokers or does anything else that most people would regard as immoral. We need to be even-handed in commenting on her actions.

    So did she do any of the things listed above? I think so. She is a media-savvy activist, a member of the Scottish Labour shadow cabinet and knows (unless she is very obtuse) that the NHS in Scotland is one of the organisations that will be the least affected by independence as it is already independent and always has been. She allowed herself to be represented as an “ordinary person”. Ordinary people don’t undertake these sorts of activities. There is nothing wrong with Clare doing her work and campaigning within the Labour party and elsewhere as she sees fit. But in doing so, she loses the description “ordinary” and becomes a politician, i.e. someone who develops, discusses and promotes policies. Incidentally, her political activity is not restricted to issues around health and caring – the Labour party “Your Britain” website lists her responsibilities as a member of the National Policy Forum as “Britain’s Global Role”. An ordinary person? I don’t think so.

    The complaint of contributors to this blog is the misrepresentation of Clare combined with her knowingly misleading comments about the impact of independence on the NHS. I think those complaints are justified and I think that your friendship or acquaintence with Clare is preventing you from being objective.

  442. David says:

    This Lally woman is a total mug if she thinks the expensive healthcare, currently being provided to her and her family by the independent NHS Scotland, will be improved by allowing Westminster politicians to privatise NHS England and definance NHS Scotland.

    I object to Clare Lally’s selfishness in thinking mainly of her own situation; but more than that, I object to her blind stupidity in not seeing that remaining in the UK will destroy so much that is good about the NHS in Scotland.

    If you really want to speak FOR the people, Lally, then first listen TO them! We do not want an English-style NHS.

  443. JWil says:

    Can’t wait to see events on FMQs tomorrow. I hope Lamont gives AS the opportunity to tear a strip or two off her. I think she would be wise not to.

    If the BT lot were genuine, they would not be putting any doubts in the minds of the public by claiming this lady was affiliated to the Labour Party. They surely could easily have found someone from the serried ranks of the NO voters who would have fitted the bill.

  444. MajorBloodnok says:

    Labour said that Clare Lally was an ordinary voter with (presumably) ordinary views.

    That was done specifically to mislead: it was a lie, along with all the other lies about the Scottish NHS, and that is what this is all about. We are constantly being lied to by Labour and Better Together in order to retain the British Establishment in power and thwart Scottish Independence and they think we don’t notice.

    It is the no campaign that has personnalised this by bringing Clare Lally into it in the first place, not WoS.

  445. JPJ2 says:

    Bay Rok says:

    Clare Lally, as I have pointed out, is “an ordinary person” in that she is not a paid politician.

    Sorry but that is a ludicrous definition of an “ordinary person”.

    On that basis a number of LEADERS of the SNP (e.g. Billy Wolfe) would not have been a “politician” which is beyond ridiculous :-)

  446. Famous15 says:

    Between fluffy kittens and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin does not give any hints as to the true state of the universe.

    FFS stop digging. The points have been made. (See TD) above.

    Let’s move on or we will be trapped in the slime trails left by the likes of Dr John Reid W.C.

  447. runningman says:

    Well done pigeon, you’ve managed to gain BT lots more votes by your stupidity. Your “followers” cost you more. I take it you will be demanding the head of the FM office spokesman who dropped you right on the shite.

  448. Bay Rok says:

    I suppose in that case, none of us on this site are ordinary people, because we are all, frothing at the mouth, rabid cybernats. So, I am perfectly entitled to do a bit of digging: perhaps JPJ2 is a serial adulterer, or has a failed business following a mysterious ‘fire’ . Maybe JWil surfs gay porn?
    None of us deserve this, not even people who have attended Manchester Business School. Is that how this all ends, with us all trawling the Internet with desperately jabbing fingers trying to find some dirt or history to discredit people we have disagreements with? If so, then I am afraid that comrades, you need to call in a psychiatrist.
    Let the first one of you without sin cast the first stone.

  449. RogueCoder says:

    I’m thoroughly bored of this Lally business already, although clearly the MSM aren’t as Stu is beating them off with a stick today. Hope he’s got back to his car alright by now :)

    Anyway, do want to post this in case anybody missed it. Have a look at the BBC story here and the picture of Ms Lally about halfway down the page. Note the two people in the background.

    Now scroll up this page’s comments to the Rev’s comment yesterday at 12.00pm exactly where he posted a picture of Ms Lally.

    Same picture – or more precisely, it’s from the same same video source but grabbed just one or two frames apart.

    Why did the BBC feel it necessary to crop the image to exclude the “Better Together activist” caption? That whole part of the story – which was, in fact, the story from our point of view – has been airbrushed from history. The BBC article makes absolutely no mention of Ms Lally’s political background and has instead focussed on Campbell Gunn.

    So here we are being given an incomplete view of what happened, engineered to make it look like Salmond’s special advisor directed a “cybernat attack” against Ms Lally. An attack which, incidentally, I haven’t seen any evidence of – has anybody else? I’m not suggesting Ms Lally is lying, but has anybody actually seen the offensive remarks sent to her?

    So with media complicity, Better Together have managed to spin this around from a story about them being dishonest, to yet another BS story about vile, despicable cybernats bullying ordinary people online. If you read this plot in a Holywood script it would be totally unbelievable – but no, here we are in 2014 Britain where the media are actively complicit in deceiving the electorate.

  450. MajorBloodnok says:

    Better Together lied and no specific trawling of the internet was required. That is what they do and that is the story.

    By the way, I’m not rabid, it’s just whipped cream.

  451. MajorBloodnok says:

    And no, I’m not a prevert.

  452. Votadini Jeannie says:

    Page not found?

  453. JPJ2 says:

    Bay Rok says:

    “So, I am perfectly entitled to do a bit of digging: perhaps JPJ2 is a serial adulterer”

    it seems to me that sort of comment in response to an entirely valid criticism of your definition of a politician is worse than anything that was said about Ms Lally.

  454. RogueCoder says:

    @ Votadini Jeannie
    They’ve just updated the story so the original link has gone along with the picture. I’ve screen grabbed the original but don’t have anywhere to post it.

  455. Vestas says:

    @ Bay Rok

    I was just curious is all given you worked in the NHS, she uses it extensively for kids/etc and she appears to be very misinformed?

    You’ll note I haven’t said who you are & nor will I.

    I actually think you’re not a troll (I suspect I’m in a minority here), rather you’re someone who’s got caught up in an internet shitstorm.

    Things are being stirred up & people need to take a step away from the keyboard at times.

    To other readers – turn your flamethrowers down a bit mmmm? I quite understand the reaction but tone it down a bit, it is a little like the witch scene in Monty Python at times.

    The referendum is there to lose for us now – don’t alienate people is the best advice I can give you lot.

  456. Bay Rok says:

    @JPJ2
    No, (irony warning) this is your opportunity to make a full confession of your thought-crimes before we send in the full SWAT team and examine your brain memories and computer files.(end irony warning)

    I don’t think anyone here, in the cold light of day, can disagree that discussions of Ms Lally’s outdoor ramp have any political significance or are anything other than prurient and morbid. They show this site in a very bad light. Mr Gunn has already issued an unreserved apology for any offence caused to Ms Lally. Will you do the same?

  457. Big Jock says:

    Look we all know that this thing stinks.We probably cant prove it but she will be a friend of the Labour party.The media were all over it.Its the next stage in the msm campaign.We have JK Rowling apparently being cyber bullied despite the story only coming out this morning.Whether its true or not the MSM are all over that.I have a message for JK in your plush mansion in Perthshire.If the UK is so great why don’t you pop along to one of the many food banks in Scotland and explain why they should vote no in your plummy accent.Better still donate the million pounds to the homeless,rather than the self preservation society.People like JK make me mad because they think you are not allowed to criticise their reasoning.The reason she is voting no is because she is rich and British.

  458. Paula Rose says:

    Seems odd to me that anyone who has to use our NHS a lot and may well have experience of the different NHS’s in other parts of the UK is unaware that they are separate entities – or am I missing the point?

  459. RogueCoder says:

    @ Votadini Jeannie
    Correction – if you play the video of Campbell Gunn on the updated page – http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-27795389 – there IS a clip of Ms Lally giving her BT speech and this is clearly the video source where the earlier screenshot was taken from. But once again the Reporting Scotland byline and “Better Together activist” caption are missing.

  460. Bay Rok says:

    @ Vestas
    I have met Clare a few times over a committee table over the last three years, that’s it: I have about 30 years advantage on her and we have never discussed politics or the NHS. I don’t do ‘elder statesman lectures’ to everyone I meet you know – and I don’t have a bee in my bonnet about the NHS either. Of course the NHS is Scotland is totally seperate, but it shares many features of the English NHS. If we are so opposed to NHS privatisation then how come all our dentists and GPs – the ‘staff’ we see for 90% of all consultations – are actually private self-employed contractors – and how come it just isn’t an issue for most patients?

  461. David Briggs says:

    @runningman

    ‘No Chance’ pal.

  462. David Briggs says:

    @ Bay Rok

    Border line abusive with that last post. The likes of yourself always blot their copy book.

  463. Vestas says:

    @ Bay Rok

    Fair enough, no worries. BTW your house is an identical design to one my aunt/uncle (rich) had in Thornton Hall – late 1960s & leaked heat like a sieve, unlike the style of house it was modeled on (which is probably why you’re “green”).

    I do think that the Blair/Brown capitulation to GPs has brought that issue more into focus. Dentists brought it into focus in England the decade before.

    Your friend has been used as cannon fodder – mainly by her “own” side to be fair, but maybe that’s taking one for the team. Or not. Only she knows.

  464. Gray says:

    The negative publicity that this story has been getting is brilliant news.

    It’s a real double-edged sword for the MSM. They want to highlight what the nasty cybernats are saying, but they can’t really afford to be sending people here to have a look. What if they stayed and read another couple of articles?

    I’d make sure there is something really juicy and eye-catching either side of this article and if the MSM want to direct folk to the site, then Yes please.

  465. Truth says:

    It would appear that Clare Lally is a director of Carers of West Dunbartonshire Ltd. This is a company linked to the Princess Royal Trust, and a company which has received National Lottery funding.

    I’ve not doubt this company does a lot of good. It seems dependent on Royal patronage and other British institutions though.

  466. JPJ2 says:

    Bay Rok

    I think you come out badly from these exchanges. I hope you accept that I am entitled to hold that opinion and I doubt I will be alone.

  467. Bay Rok says:

    @JPJ2 I don’t actually give a flying f*ck what you or anyone else thinks: I have stood by the truth, done my level best to stop this ridiculous story in its tracks before it causes any more upset to Clare, and as a result been subjected to some cyberstalking and threats by several members of this group. Look in the mirror: are these the values that you hold to? Because if so, you have lost the plot. By the way, my house is early 1980’s and has good insulation, some triple glazing and solar panels, which I use to charge up my electric car, just to put that one straight. Not that it matters.

  468. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I have stood by the truth, done my level best to stop this ridiculous story in its tracks before it causes any more upset to Clare, and as a result been subjected to some cyberstalking and threats by several members of this group. “

    Can YOU actually direct us to any of the alleged abuse? It’s been oddly conspicuous by its absence in the media coverage.

  469. Paula Rose says:

    She’s not exactly an “ordinary voter” is she, Bay Rock darling?

  470. Bay Rok says:

    Are you? Is anyone? Plain common sense would tell us that the word is used in this context as shorthand for anyone who isn’t a professional politician. Ordinary voters don’t usually flagwave for political events, do they? Sure, its a misnomer, but the worst misnomer of all is that ridiculous “Joining the Political Elite” headline: in fact, if nothing else, virtually all of the press and media references here are riddled with errors. We know that, we are constantly showing that the media is always wrong, they can’t even spell people’s names right: so we should use media stories with great caution ourselves. Real journalists are always supposed to double check their sources: we need to do the same.

  471. Paula Rose says:

    Well dear, she seems to have a very impressive political cv according to what I’ve read – or is that another Clare Lally?

  472. JPJ2 says:

    Bay Rok

    Read your own posts, look in your own mirror. You have been openly offensive to me, not I too you (or to Clare).

  473. rab_the_doubter says:

    Bay Rok, who was conspicuous by his absense on this site until yesterday seems to have an awful lot to say for themself. Dare I say it’s almost as if they were prepared for this story to break. There’s a distinct odour of marine based lifeforms about this.

  474. James says:

    Bay Rok, one last time. You say “stop this ridiculous story in its tracks before it causes more upset to Clare” in what way has the story caused upset? Which part would be particularly upsetting? This is nearly entirely composed of newspaper articles which Clare presumably freely gave permission to be printed and was entirely involved in the content of the stories, at no point is there any personal attack on Clare herself in the article here, merely an observation she was lying about the NHS, which she either was, or she was mistaken and blindly misleading the public, which was it?
    I have been unable to find any single shred of evidence of abuse, only valid criticism, other than claims made in the telegraph! You say there have been threats made? If so this should be easily proved and the police should be involved, I’m sure no one here condones that behaviour and would welcome the unmasking of any individual who has been threatening Clare directly!

  475. Caroline Corfield says:

    I’m genuinely curious now, especially living in England and experiencing the NHS here, exactly what things are similar between NHS England and NHS Scotland?

    I know for example that England has trusts and Scotland does not. I know my GPs are run as businesses with practice managers and often dissuade unhealthy people from joining their practice asking them ‘can’t you join another practice’ – I’m expecting that Eleanor Bradford would have been hot to trot if that scenario had been uncovered in Scotland.

    I know that hospitals near to where I live can’t take patients from ambulances and paramedics in a timely fashion and that this has meant considerable delays to ambulances picking ill people up after 999 calls.

    I know an unspecified number of patients in Glasgow on one day had to spend one day on trolleys ( not waiting in ambulances mind) and got an apology from the hospital involved.

    I’d be most interested to hear what things are the same in Scotland to England as far as the NHS is concerned where it affects the patients directly, and of course the structural and organisational similarities.

  476. rab_the_doubter says:

    You know, You Choob really needs to do a cover version of Slim Shady for this.

    Cause I’m Clare Lally, yes I’m the real Lally
    All you other Clare Lallys are just imitating
    So won’t the real Clare Lally please stand up,
    Please stand up, please stand up?

  477. Bay Rok says:

    @Caroline Corfield
    A great deal is different, but you would need someone who is up to speed on both systems to do a detailed, up to date comparison. The main thing is that they are managed completely separately, by Westminster and Holyrood, have experienced very different organisational reforms, and, for example, there is far less private health used in Scotland than in England probably because the Scottish NHS has been historically better funded per capita. However, staff move freely between both systems, and many patients cross the border if required, for example for specialist treatment for paediatrics. The referendum outcome will makes no difference at all to the NHS in Scotland or England, and it really is a non-issue.

  478. Paula Rose says:

    Sorry getting a bit confused here – so Clare knew the reality? I saw the launch on TV and thought ‘oh no, not another ordinary voter who doesn’t know the reality’.

  479. James says:

    Bugger it, I think this Lally-gate has run its course now, I think Bay Rok must concede that, on this site at least, there has been no abuse directed at Clare and the article was not a personal attack seeing as no credible case has been presented to back up these assertions, and if there has been direct abuse and threats made from elsewhere, this should be easily proved and is a matter for the police.
    I’m sure we can all agree if nothing else Clare seems to do good work in her capacity as a carer and championing carers rights even if we disagree with her opinions and leave it at that and we can all be friends again and continue this referendum debate, for our part at least, with civility :)

  480. Bay Rok says:

    Just three comments from the above, plus all the cyber-stalking and speculation about her family links and private life: if this doesn’t constitute personal abuse then what does? If I were a mod here I would have pulled all three:
    “There is no end of Labour careerist who will happily pretend to be an ordinary member of the public to climb the slippery pole.”
    “Grassroots ma erse!”
    “Clare has used her daughter’s plight to blatantly lie about the NHS, I think it is you that needs to think about it.”

  481. Gerry Tierney says:

    Clare Lally’s my aunt. Clydebank isn’t “more than three miles” from Duntocher; Duntocher forms part of the Clydebank burgh.

    I’m a YES voter.

    Are you going to bloody apologise for your weasel words? Total, absolute, utter disgrace worthy of the very worst tabloids.

  482. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Clare Lally’s my aunt. Clydebank isn’t “more than three miles” from Duntocher; Duntocher forms part of the Clydebank burgh.

    I’m a YES voter.

    Are you going to bloody apologise for your weasel words? Total, absolute, utter disgrace worthy of the very worst tabloids.”

    Wow, that’s the most upset I’ve ever seen anyone be about a dispute over the distance from Clydebank to Duntocher.

  483. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Bay Rok

    Glad you’re not a paranoid obsessive. That would be really weird.

  484. James says:

    I suggest the best thing to do then if you don’t know something is to look it up.
    “Ad hominem abuse (also called personal abuse or personal attacks) usually involves insulting or belittling one’s opponent to invalidate his or her argument, but can also involve pointing out factual but ostensible character flaws or actions which are irrelevant to the opponent’s argument.”

    No one here was directly insulting or belittling her to invalidate her argument, or at all.
    Any criticisms that were made were of her statements and completely relevant to the argument she was trying to make about the NHS.

    As for the comments you have provided as proof of abuse;
    1. She either did pretend to be an ordinary member of the public and not massively involved with the Labour Party, or her promoters deceived her without her knowledge, this is an observation of what would appear to be the truth of the situation, not a personal attack and was relevant to the case.
    2. How can she possibly, in any sort of capacity be described as grassroots? This is again an observation, and in any case may not be directly aimed at Ms Lally but the BT campaign.
    3. A contentious point yes but a valid argument. She either did lie, or was merely mistaken, and did without any question present her disabled daughter as the basis of this argument, that is undeniable fact, and was relevant to the argument, she may not have had the intention of doing so but you must concede that it could be construed that way by an observer. I can only assume your reasoning on this is being clouded by emotional ties. Even so, these were comments made by individuals and not by the author of the article you requested to be removed as a personal attack, which it wasn’t.
    In any case I am in danger of straying from my own point in my last comment so this is my last say on this topic, I wish you and Ms Lally and her family well, and hope she can see the light and leave the dark side 😉 let’s please put this to bed even if we disagree on this point, have a good night :)

  485. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    I realise Cameron’s little helpers, the lib dems, are a joke party of the fringes now, but apparently some of Clegg’s loyal and out of touch spinners are outraged by misogynism. Of which they do not of course offer any proof. That would be too much to expect.

    So that would be the party of Lord Rennard lecturing others on imagined misogyny. Done purely the strength of a handfull of random internet trolls and someone incorrectly saying a member of Labour’s shadow cabinet was a relative of a Labour Lord Provost who had the same last name.

    Perhaps there’s a very good reason so many people are laughing at Clegg’s Liberal Democrats and refer to them as Clegg’s Lost Deposits?

    It is a blessed relief these yellow tories are now a complete irrelevance to scottish politics. I can only imagine those still loyal to Clegg will be personally thanked by Cameron for helping his party so much when the get lib dems annihilated in 2015.

  486. Bay Rok says:

    Does anybody regard this tacky topic and the tacky comments made in this thread as “soaring above Scottish Politics” ? Because if so, they are utterly delusional. The topic was a huge mistake in the first place, it appears to have originated in an office very close to Alex Salmond, and it is based on a lie. That lie was pinpointed early on in the discussion, and I was personally vilified and stalked for pointing it out. My response last night, after a great many attempts to identify the truth, was to tell you all where to go. After another long day of debate (plus plenty of ad-hominem attacks on my own character and motivation) the Yes campaign has just scored a serious own goal. Well, now you have all had your say, and the rest of the nation has stood back and wondered what on earth has happened to our happy, upbeat and positive campaigning of yesteryear. Hope you are proud of yourselves. Goodnight.

  487. David says:

    Bay Rok at 10:49 pm – “The referendum outcome will makes no difference at all to the NHS in Scotland or England, and it really is a non-issue.”

    This above is the WORST comment on this whole article! You describe yourself as a Yes voter, so do you seriously believe this, Bay?

    In my opinion a NO vote would have a terrible effect on the NHS in Scotland, and drag it down the same privatisation path as NHS England. You and the Shadow Scottish Cabinet member seem to be very badly misinformed about what Westminster plans for Scotland’s NHS.

  488. Rock says:

    Bay Rok,

    Like Claire Lally, are you now voting No? If not, why not? Because there is much more to a Yes vote than one Claire Lally?

    As a (previous) Yes supporter, why had you never before posted a comment on this site?

    To you, it has to be repeated for the umpteenth time that Claire Lally has close connections to Labour and Better Together. It was a blatant lie to present her as an ‘ordinary person’ during a Better Together event. And that was the point of this article, not a SUGGESTION that she MIGHT be related to a Labour politician.

    Claire Lally is either lying or is completely ignorant if she really believes that the Scottish National Health Service will be better protected under the union.

    Johann Lamont, the leader of the Scottish labour shadow cabinet of which Claire Lally is a member, is on the record as saying that she wants to end Scotland’s ‘something for nothing’ culture.

    Johann Lamont wants to bring an end to ‘free’ prescriptions. Are Claire Lally and yourself in favour of medicine banks in addition to food banks in Scotland?

  489. Rock says:

    Bay Rok,

    Like Claire Lally, are you now voting No? If not, why not? Because there is much more to a Yes vote than one Claire Lally?

    As a (previous) Yes supporter, why had you never before posted a comment on this site?

    To you, it has to be repeated for the umpteenth time that Claire Lally has close connections to Labour and Better Together.

    It was a blatant lie to present her as an ‘ordinary person’ during a Better Together event. And as you very well know, that was the point of this article, not a SUGGESTION that she MIGHT be related to a Labour politician.

    Claire Lally is either lying or is completely ignorant if she really believes that the Scottish National Health Service will be better protected under the union.

    Johann Lamont, the leader of the Scottish labour shadow cabinet of which Claire Lally is a member, is on the record as saying that she wants to end Scotland’s ‘something for nothing’ culture.

    Johann Lamont wants to bring an end to ‘free’ prescriptions. Are Claire Lally and yourself in favour of medicine banks in addition to food banks in Scotland?

  490. Ros says:

    Dunno about Ms Lally being connected to Pat, but she is deffo the same Lally from Duntocher who kicked up about the council house ramps – most of the articles only show photos of the ramp, but if you scroll down here you will see a photo which proves Offended Lally is the same person as Ramp Lally.

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/council-installs-ten-level-4000-slalom-ramp-for-disabled-girl-86003

  491. G H Graham says:

    Iraq, the country that the Blair/Brown Labour government jointly invaded using quite the subversive excuse, appears to be descending back down the deep shaft where are the bottom awaits more chaos, anarchy & bloodshed.

    Militia, armies, civilians, all fighting for who knows what? Power, control, revenge, freedom, safety, electricity, food?

    The western agenda is a complete failure. Whether that was to secure oil access, deliver democracy or change the balance of power to someone whom they “liked”, it hasn’t worked as planned. Assuming there was a plan. Which I doubt.

    Meanwhile, the British media can’t even mention yesterday, the hundreds of thousands of people killed at the hands of western armies to arrive at this point but wring their hands with glee at the apparent shock of an email from a Scottish government adviser that contained an incorrect fact.

    As I watched the playground antics on the telly yesterday, I sat back, amazed at the fantastical media hypocrisy, galactic scale faux outrage & the witch hunt that would have earned a Stalinist thug a medal.

    I couldn’t stick through any of the “Scottish” themed current affairs programmes or indeed any of the “Scottish” themed news bulletins.

    The people who run these programs and those that participated in them left me with a deep sense of despair & bewilderment. Yesterday was one of those days when I hated the country I lived in. And I do mean hated.

  492. slackshoe says:

    The biggest, worst lie in all of this is the one that has had the least amount of scrutiny over the last couple of days.

    And that’s the lie that Clare told about the NHS.

  493. Bay Rok says:

    Clare didn’t tell a lie: so lets nail that allegation. She was simply wrong about the way that the NHS works – which in some ways proves the point – she is a grassroots activist with no training in the quite complex way that the NHS is managed. Sure, she should have been better briefed, and sure, that puts the Labour leadership in a very poor light. But this thread isn’t about them, this is about her. My guess is that a large proportion of the ordinary electorate doesn’t understand these kind of issues either, which is why we need to make sure that we counter these kind of fallacies with the truth, rather than attacking ordinary people who lack that knowledge – shooting the messenger, if you like.

    If we follow this thread you can see that this is the timescale:

    10:00 Article posted at 10:00 approx
    10:21 I requested the article be withdrawn because it was mean-spirited and wrong, as well as potentially highly damaging to our cause.
    10: 30 – I messaged Clare Lally and asked her if she was related to Pat Lally.
    10: 36 – I posted that she was NO RELATION TO PAT LALLY and asked for the article to be pulled as inaccurate.
    10:53 – Campbell Gunn, in a lather of tabloid excitement, pulls the trigger and sends the story to the Telegraph newspaper in an email, thereby shooting himself in the foot and setting in place a train of action that led to the worst publicity the Yes campaign has received since starting this campaign.

    Both Clare and I were then subjected to a torrent of abuse, which continues to the bottom of this thread, and elsewhere despite the fact that I was correct to ask for the article to be pulled – in the interests of this campaign and this site.

    I am a Yes voter and campaigner. I have been delivering Yes literature in my area. I also attended the Yes in the Park rally last Saturday in the rain and spent some time chatting at the Wings Over Scotland tent, which is why I was keen to read the latest story. I was horrified by it, as were many people, on all sides and none.

    I happen to know Clare as we are both campaigning parents of children with disabilities, and some things like that are far more important than politics. You all need to get a sense of perspective in this debate and calm down. Think before you write: what would an ordinary voter think about that point? Otherwise you will blow it by losing the trust of the public, and that would be a tragedy for Scotland.

  494. Paula Rose says:

    This thread is also about the way that Better Together No Thanks put people in difficult positions without much thought.

  495. Bay Rok says:

    The headlines say it all: do they mean YOU? They certainly do!
    From other news sites

    Telegraph
    Alex Salmond attacks Telegraph for publishing ‘smear’ email
    2 hrs ago
    Financial Times*
    Braveheart nationalism is showing its dark side
    2 hrs ago
    Guardian.co.uk
    Alex Salmond will not sack adviser over email attacking Better Together speaker
    6 hrs ago
    The Scotsman
    FMQs: Salmond defies calls to sack Campbell Gunn
    8 hrs ago
    Daily Express
    COMMENT: Make no mistake, Alex Salmond approves of abusive tactics
    8 hrs ago
    About these results

  496. Votadini Jeannie says:

    “Clare didn’t tell a lie…She was simply wrong”

    One could equally say the same about Campbell Gunn. However he has apolgised for his error, yet Clare won’t accept it.

    As a friend of hers, perhaps a wee suggestion that she admits her error wouldn’t go amiss. Then we can rest assured it was not her intention to deceive.

    I’m sure she’d like the opportunity to set the story straight.

  497. Bay Rok says:

    Yes, but that kind of empathetic afterthought wasn’t really possible Pauline – too little, too late. This is the story as the public read it:

    From other news sites

    Telegraph
    Alex Salmond attacks Telegraph for publishing ‘smear’ email
    2 hrs ago
    Financial Times*
    Braveheart nationalism is showing its dark side
    2 hrs ago
    Guardian.co.uk
    Alex Salmond will not sack adviser over email attacking Better Together speaker
    6 hrs ago
    The Scotsman
    FMQs: Salmond defies calls to sack Campbell Gunn
    8 hrs ago
    Daily Express
    COMMENT: Make no mistake, Alex Salmond approves of abusive tactics
    8 hrs ago
    About these results

  498. Bay Rok says:

    Sorry those posts crossed to the new page, so I double posted the c&p element… Proves we are all human!
    ****************

    Clare isnt a highly paid top adviser with 45 years experience as a journalist, she is an ordinary mum, as she said. I didn’t hear her original remarks. Yes, she should have been better briefed before being put into a spokesperson capacity on the NHS, and the same goes for anyone – including our own activists. I can understand and share the anger – the No campaign have been using black propaganda all the way – and sure some of their supporters have mopped their lies up as holy writ. The point is, we cannot afford to sink to their level, we have let ourselves down badly and been totally wrong-footed by the media, and yet, it was preventable if this site had been capably edited and moderated. And I am also very angry that Clare has been put in this position, and that I have been abused by some members of this site for daring to correct an error of fact and questioning the whole purpose of this article.

  499. rab_the_doubter says:

    Seriously Bay Rok, spare us the mock offendedness, BT were caught out in a lie and the only orchestration of subsequent abuse has been via the MSM virulently attacking Mr Gunn for the ‘henious crime’ of typing ‘daughter in law’ in an email. If you are looking for anybody to blame for any abuse you say you are getting then you need look no further than to those in the MSM who have whipped this non-story into a frenzy over the last few days. Something likely to stir the typical ill informed tabloid reader into neanderthal action, and ask yourself.
    If you are a regular reader here you will know that we are reasonable people with a low tolerance threshold for BS, lies and trolling.

  500. Votadini Jeannie says:

    She is still able to admit she was wrong though, surely?

    And to accept the apology which, after all, is only over a case of mistaken identity, and he was not the first person to make that mistake.

    Given that Pat Lally does indeed have a daughter-in-law named Claire Lally, it seems quite understandable. An error it surely was, abuse it wasn’t.

    But he was big enough to admit it and apolgise. I think if Clare were able to do the same then she might greatly redeem herself.

  501. rab_the_doubter says:

    Sorry, last post should have ended:

    Something likely to stir the typical ill informed tabloid reader into neanderthal action, Ask yourself who stands to gain by the underhand MSM coverage of this.
    If you are a regular reader here you will know that we are reasonable people with a low tolerance threshold for BS, lies and trolling.



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