"A new and awful low in Scottish politics" – Margaret Curran

Wings Over Scotland


Voters less ordinary

Posted on June 10, 2014 by

The Times has a front-page lead this morning on the “Better Together” rally held in Glasgow yesterday, at which the official lead campaign group debuted its new “No Thanks” slogan. The article makes an interesting claim:

“[Alistair Darling] was the only politician to speak at the Better Together rally in Glasgow. All the others were ordinary men and women who had volunteered to talk about why they were campaigning to keep Scotland in the United Kingdom.

They were led by Claire Lally, a mother from Clydebank, with a child with serious health problems. She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

Well, that all seems legit.

After all, it’s a different spelling to THIS Clare Lally:

clarelally

“Clare Lally is to join Labour’s shadow cabinet as their first ‘Carers Champion’. The role will see the 31-year-old, who has no previous political experience, advise Johann Lamont’s party on the challenges facing Scotland’s 660,000 carers.

Clare, of Duntocher, Dunbartonshire, said she was delighted to help influence key policy. She said: ‘I have always been a Labour supporter. But to actually be able to contribute and help make a difference is a better opportunity than I could have asked for.'”

Duntocher is also more than three miles away from Clydebank, and it’s probably a total coincidence that two women in Dunbartonshire have almost the same name, severely disabled daughters and close links to the Labour Party. And the odds of her being the same Claire Lally who’s the daughter-in-law of former Labour Lord Provost of Glasgow Pat Lally and has a husband called Derek must be astronomically high.

lallylamont

We’re all but certain that this ordinary mum definitely ISN’T the one who’s part of what the Record calls “the political elite”, a member of the Scottish Labour shadow cabinet, an experienced media performer or generations deep in the Glasgow Labour oligarchy and prepared to lie on command about the NHS for political ends.

After all, that would mean that “Better Together” were misleading people by presenting hardcore political activists as normal everyday folk, and that can’t possibly be true.

.

EDIT 10.12pm: Despite much confusing and contradictory information, after further investigation we’re now more or less sure that Clare Lally is NOT in fact related to Pat Lally. However, in the course of that investigation we’ve also discovered that she’s a member of Labour’s National Policy Forum 2015, which we’re pretty darned certain comes awfully close to any reasonable definition of being a “politician”.

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507 to “Voters less ordinary”

  1. Alan B says:

    Is there anywhere I can find a concise list of individual lies, half-truths and deceptions that BT have put in the public domain?

    Someone could probably get a PhD thesis out of it.

  2. eezy says:

    Bordering on fraud!!!

  3. eddie says:

    Shocked? Nope….

  4. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    I think the astroturf needs mowing.

  5. Robert Roddick says:

    Not a very good start for an aspiring politician apparently not realising that the NHS in Scotland is independent.

  6. Gordon says:

    “She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    Is that the same, already separate Scottish NHS that has nothing to do with the rest of the UK’s, apart from a convoluted and punitive funding calculation based on the English NHS’s budget?

  7. Jim Thomson says:

    I sooo glad you’ve been utterly rational about this Rev. I mean, I couldn’t believe it either.

  8. heedtracker says:

    Oh what a tangled web BetterTogether weaves, when teamGB journos practice to deceive. Why do these bizarre characters even bother lying to Scotland like this day in day out, is another ukok mystery.

  9. Bawheid Bragg says:

    Robert Roddick says:

    “Not a very good start for an aspiring politician apparently not realising that the NHS in Scotland is independent.”

    Funny, Gordon Brown made a similar mistake in his speech recently. Is he what you’d call an aspiring politican?

  10. Jings! Whit a coincidence.

  11. StuartF says:

    Better Together, no thanks! Cant even hide the most basic of BS

  12. Castle Rock says:

    Well and truly filleted.

    Yes grassroots campaigner to BT supporter:

    “Would you now like to hear the truth?”

    “No thanks”

    Keep chipping away, even the diehards are beginning to see the truth.

  13. Nana Smith says:

    Just what labour needs another plank to foist on the electorate. Geez just look at Lamont to see where the party is heading. Hopefully oblivion

  14. ronnie anderson says:

    Nae wonder wee Duggie Alexander wants a reconciliation

    service the C of S should abandon any plans they have,its a

    farce,like holding the Funeral Service & burial before the

    persons deed.

  15. Bay Rok says:

    I know Clare Lally well as a great campaigner for carers – she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life. I have never asked her whether she is related to Pat Lally because it would be totally irrelevant. What is the point of this article? Its just muckraking – aren’t we supposed to be leaving that kind of insinuation to the tabloid media? I would be most obliged if you could withdraw this article.

  16. TheGreatBaldo says:

    In a similar vein did you catch the STV piece last night on the grassroots with the ‘never been involved in politics before’ solicitor from Edinburgh…..who as the voiceover advises us…..”hopes to become a Labour MSP”.

    There is no end of Labour careerist who will happily pretend to be an ordinary member of the public to climb the slippery pole.

    Almost as funny as Jenny Marra demanding Alistair Darling debate with David Cameron..:-)

    Seriously has Labour never heard of the internet ?

  17. eezy says:

    Tweeted, Facebooked, re-tweeted….
    Yhis is too good….
    YAASSS.
    Grassroots ma erse!

  18. gavin lessells says:

    Just been reliably informed that a debate took place on friday at Ross Hall School involving JoLamont and Humza Yusaf.The kids apparently wiped the floor with Lamont. Outcome of debate 60/40 for Independence. Just a wee cheery up!

  19. MajorBloodnok says:

    Shame on you Rev. Pat Lally’s reputation for integrity, financial probity and open-handedness are nothing she should be ashamed of. I also heard he had his own business recycling brown envelopes.

  20. TheGreatBaldo says:

    “Bay Rok says:”

    No doubt she is…..but the event she spoke at was billed as ordinary members of the public and not politico’s.

    It’s Labour and Better Together’s hypocracy not Clare/Claire that is the target of the piece.

  21. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:
    I’ve no doubt she’s all you say. I’m quite a nice guy too.
    She should be asking her bosses why she’s been stitched up?

  22. Macart says:

    They really can’t help themselves at this point can they? Misleading and misrepresenting comes as easily as drawing breath to them.

  23. David McCann says:

    Labour in Scotland and the NHS should always come with a health warning.

    OT. I see good old Johnston Press are in trouble again, with share price plumetting.
    http://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2014/jun/09/johnstonpress-mediabusiness?CMP=ema_546&commentpage=1

  24. Red Squirrel says:

    Good on her for campaigning for carers but she should be aware that the only way to protect our brilliant NHS Scotland is to keep it as far away from WM as possible.

    Labour is as much a friend to the NHS as the Tories are – only the Scottish govt has pledged to keep our NHS in public ownership.

  25. mogabee says:

    Labour liars, pants on fire!

    Are there NO decent folk left(?) in Labour now?…

    Silly me, silly question!

  26. Grouse Beater says:

    Just when you think they’re long gone…

    Pat Lally, another Glasgow machine pollytishun who ran Tammany Hall as if his own fiefdom, a disaster for its people and its architecture. East, west, London’s best.

  27. Nana Smith says:

    @TheGreatBaldo

    Yes I saw the stv piece and my first thought was here we have yet another aspiring labourite lying to the public. Handing out leaflets full of misinformation.

    So if she was to stand in an election I for one would be shouting liar.

  28. Ken500 says:

    Oh NO, not again

    With cuts to the Scottish NHS funding already on the way from Westminster. Scottish budget cut £1.3Billion a year since 2011 Budget by Westminister. ‘The something for nothing society’ declaration. What are these people thinking of? BT not likely. Another PR Con job.

    Westminster Con/Dems elected to protect NHS/Education and cut the deficit, have done the opposite. Labour/Unionists are failures.

  29. Dave sharp says:

    Your last link “experienced media performer” has been pulled.

  30. tehklev says:

    @Bay Rok:

    I’m sure she’s very nice, as are the handful of folks I know who wish to maintain the status quo, but she’s an adult and knows exactly what she’s getting into, especially with that family background.

    It’s like I’m watching “The Thick of It” every day.

  31. Ken500 says:

    Anyone who uses their disabled children for political advantage is suspect.

  32. Capella says:

    @Bay Rok
    The point is to expose the lies in the MSM designed to manipulate voter opinion and “fix” the vote. That is what the 4th Estate is supposed to do. Luckily, WOS does it for us.

  33. Grouse Beater says:

    “She said she’d do all she could to protect … the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    Two responses:

    That’s a great reason to vote Yes.
    And
    Why exploit your daughter for political ends?

  34. Bay Rok says:

    I have just asked Clare Lally and she is NO RELATION TO PAT LALLY. Please remove this article immediately.

  35. Grouse Beater says:

    Ken said: Anyone who uses their disabled children for political advantage is suspect.

    Snap! Like leaving Downing Street for the last time wife and child in tow…

  36. Ken500 says:

    Stop Press

    Stu buy up the Scotsman. Do them a favour, they will pay you to take it away.

  37. chalks says:

    Watched Sky News last night, had Pennington on against Natalie McGarry, thought she did OK, is it just me, or do these guys need to get a bit more blunt?

  38. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok said: I have never asked her whether she is related to Pat Lally because it would be totally irrelevant.

    Farage’s mistress must wish she had your integrity around her.

  39. fairiefromtheearth says:

    Bay Rok ive got a bridge in London that i can sell you and by the way im a nice guy 😉

  40. Craig P says:

    she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service

    You can have one or the other, but not both! Unless of course you think that privatisation will be the salvation of the NHS.

  41. Bay Rok says:

    Can I also ask those above who have linked to this article to take those links down. This is potentially actionable and we need to behave as a disciplined force with strong ethical standards, not a rabble of muckrakers.

  42. Grouse Beater says:

    I think ‘Bay Rok’ should read ‘Northern Rok.’

  43. ronnie anderson says:

    @Bay Rok, who are you to demand anything of this site,

    Claire/Clare Lally is a member of the labour party, whitch

    health service helped her daughter Scottish HS / NHS England

    exploiting disabled family member for your own political aims

    is not a nice woman,deceiveing the public she deserves all

    she gets,& I never mentioned her husband, father in law,or

    daughters, should be ridiculed JUST HER.

  44. Rod Robertson says:

    Excellent stuff again Stu ,we have to keep exposing these dishonest people at every opportunity.

  45. Onwards says:

    I wonder if she read the SNP proposals to boost the allowance for carers?

    It would be a nice touch for the SNP to directly pledge the savings we will make from defense and trident into a firm commitment to something.
    Carers, childcare, the NHS, schools etc

  46. Cath says:

    “she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life.

    I’m sure many politicians and campaigners are perfectly nice people. But if she is – as she should be – aware that the NHS in Scotland is independent, and the one in England is rapidly being privatised (and that Labour supports the two being more joined up after a NO vote, in one-nation Britain) then she is lying to voters. Pure and simple.

    She is perfectly welcome to make a case that, as a carer she’d prefer NHS Scotland and England joined up and privatised – Cameron supports that despite having had a disabled son, for example.

    But make that case rather than lying.

  47. Castle Rock says:

    Don’t agree Bay Rok, the lies and spin should be highlighted as often as possible.

    Clare Lally may well indeed be a fine person but she aint no ordinary punter, she’s part and parcel of the Labour anti independence machine and has been caught out red-handed.

    Why is Clare not out and about campaigning against the privatisation of the NHS in England if she is so worried? This will do more damage to the funding of the Scottish NHS than anything else but she doesn’t highlight that does she?

    No, Clare would rather try and protect her Labour pals in their Westminster seats than protect the vital services of the Scottish NHS.

  48. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok can you provide evidence of your assertion that this Mrs Lally is no relation to Pat Lally?

  49. caz-m says:

    Rev, you are on fire. two bullshit stories in a row are “Nailed”. Brilliant.

    Keep takin the porridge Rev. (Scott’s of course.)

  50. Grouse Beater says:

    If Ms Rok thinks so much of the Scottish NHS that she confuses it for the English NHS then she is free to take her child to England and make use of their health service on the presumption she thinks it superior.

  51. Livimo says:

    Does every ‘Clare’ in Duntocher look the same, or is it just another remarkable coincidence?

  52. Training Day says:

    As others have said, the point of the article is to expose the lie that this person is an ‘ordinary woman’. She clearly isn’t.

    Oh, and for a ‘rabble of muckrakers’, look no further than BT’s cohorts in the Mail, Times, Express etc.

  53. Cath says:

    Why is Clare not out and about campaigning against the privatisation of the NHS in England if she is so worried?

    Or against Westminster’s welfare reforms that are hammering the sick and disabled, as well as carers. The ones brought in by Labour and carried on merrily by the Tories.

  54. Bay Rok says:

    Yes, I have known her for several years, and she has just told me so. She has no reason to lie about it anyway, and the names are different. This is a straightforward case of mistaken identity and shoddy journalism, and anyone can check the facts if they wish to.

  55. mogabee says:

    No one cares who Ms Lally is related to.

    Agree fully with others here that dishonesty re SNHS and ENHS is unacceptable and needs to be challenged.

  56. JLT says:

    Rev …serious kudos!

    Honestly …how the hell did you pin this altogether? Are you using some form of dark arts?

    If you has been born in Soviet Russia, I think you would have made a formidable member of the KGB. It’s frightening the information you can lay your hands on.

    But anyway …brilliant mate. Seriously …just brilliant.

  57. Gillie says:

    I would imagine that NHS Scotland will be a tad upset with the not-so-ordinary Clare Lally.

  58. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Bay Rok, I would like to know what Legal Training you

    have,& what part/parts are legaly actionable (

    misrepresentation what ? ? ? ).

  59. Decko says:

    It is fraud cause if you research her on scotlandspeople you wil lfind that since 1855 there has only been two Clare Lally’s born in Scotland, one in Coatbridge in 1975, the other I fear is this one born in Dumbarton, Dumbarstonshire in 1969.

  60. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “It is fraud cause if you research her on scotlandspeople you wil lfind that since 1855 there has only been two Clare Lally’s born in Scotland, one in Coatbridge in 1975, the other I fear is this one born in Dumbarton, Dumbarstonshire in 1969.”

    To be fair, IF she’s Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law, she (almost certainly) wouldn’t have been born with the surname Lally.

  61. Kitty says:

    Oooh, the one time being from Clydebank pays off – I have two mutual Facebook friends with her. Going to get my snoop on!

  62. caz-m says:

    GLASGOW
    CITY
    COUNCIL
    LABOUR
    PARTY

    When you hear that organisations name, you immediately relate it to corruption and brown paper bags.

    Also poor housing, poor health and poor education.

  63. Grouse Beater says:

    How many Clare Lallys exist in Scotland with a disabled child?
    (Shum coinshidensh – editor)

  64. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:

    10 June, 2014 at 10:42 am

    Can I also ask those above who have linked to this article to take those links down.

    I suspect it might be too late….

  65. Bay Rok says:

    Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children , according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    Peggy is survived by her husband Pat, her sons Robert and Derek, their wives Jennifer and Claire, her grandchildren, Catherine and Sarah, her sister Fredda and her aunts Peggy and Chrissie.

    Now, can you please withdraw this article and all links to it before the No camp are all over it and take this site down?

  66. Free Scotland says:

    The machinations of the gutter press are enough to drive you doo-lally.

  67. Fi Hall says:

    Funny how Alistair Darling was the only politician to bother to speak at the rally. Did he speak or did he just mumble?

  68. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok you do know you’re making a fool of yourself without producing proof that this Claire isn’t related to Pat Lally and isn’t just ‘an ordinary voter’. We’re all being kind to you but take a look , if you haven’t already, at The ‘Wings’ Twitter page. I think the evidence is overwhelming no?

  69. It was the Scottish NHS that helped clares child,lets not get that confused with the English one.Im fed up of explaining to folk on the doorstep that the NHS has ALWAYS BEEN DEVOLVED to Scotland,Agggghhhh!

    Have to say that i also have a disabled child,but would never use her for any political gain.

  70. Kitty says:

    This is the lady with the £40,000 ramp outside her house. Gossip travels fast in Clydebank. Here’s a message I got about the ramp when I talked about it on Facebook.

    “Not that I’m a gossip, but I thought you would like a bit of back ground info…The House is in Duntocher. My Aunt is involved in the local council, and apparently, she owned her own house, which she sold because she couldn’t afford to convert it to be disabled friendly. She asked the WDC for that particular house, even although it had the 3 flights of stairs, and complained to get the ramp put in, She has been in the paper with Alex Salmon and apparently she sits on some board for parents with children that have disabilities and advises the SNP now.”

    https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.218824878132474.66764.135542186460744

    http://www.clydebankpost.co.uk/news/aroundthetown/articles/2011/05/18/413494-first-minister-meets-clydebank-supermum/

  71. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok: Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children, according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    In that case you are taking the Record at face value?
    More fool you.

  72. HandandShrimp says:

    I’m astonished!

    However, it is no great surprise that the Labour machine will feed on willing Labour activists. That aside I’m sure Clare is a nice person and has battled for the best outcomes for her daughter.

    What was far more interesting about yesterday was what Gordon was saying about the Better Together campaign being seen as bullying and confrontational, that Cameron should debate with Salmond, that Yes is making inroads into the No vote and that the No parties need to present a formal agreed Devo Max proposal before the 18th.

    I can imagine there was some face palming in BT HQ at much of what Gordon said…especially from the non-Labour elements of the organisation. Indeed some of the more vociferous No proponents on CIF were less than complementary about Gordon’s ability to work as a team player and those vehemently opposed to devolution now see the distinct possibility of the evil AlicSalmin getting pretty much all he wants through Devo Max.

    I can’t see the three parties agreeing a sensible coherent package in the next 98 days though so the danger of a genuinely attractive Devo Max upsetting the apple cart looks like an outside bet. Fortunately they didn’t let Gordon loose soon enough and a wee bit of mayhem in their ranks and yet another re-launch can’t be bad for Yes. :)

  73. James S says:

    Came across a good definition of how the BT campaign sums things up:

    https://imgur.com/gallery/sSACCl6

  74. James Sneddon says:

    Bay Rok it’s an easy question to answer is the Claire you know the Claire in the pictures?

  75. TD says:

    Bay Rok
    The only important point here is that the BT campaign have lied by representing Claire Lally as an ordinary punter when she is in fact a member of the shadow cabinet. That is something that we all have a right to know and it is incumbent on us to point out this lie to others, especially the DKs. Why? Because if they are lying about this, then they are probably lying about other things.

    Claire may be a nice person and we can all admire her dedication to her daughter. But on this matter, if she is aware of the deception, she is doing a bad thing. The organisers are just cynical liars who would exploit Claire’s situation for their own ends and they should be held in contempt.

  76. jacksloan2013 says:

    There can be no stronger sign that Better Together are attempting a quick catch-up than the new wee badge launched yesterday. Running behind on all fronts they have finally issued a “No Thanks” badge. How many we will see on lapels? Will it even become a window poster? Must have cost a fortune at Saatchi and Saatchi to come up with this!

  77. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

    We demand that Clare debates with Claire. We surely have the technology.

  78. ronnie anderson says:

    @fairy from the heath, there’s a nice bridge in Arizona

    that ah hud ma eye on, any chancity you could pit a bid

    in fur me.

  79. eezy says:

    Bay Rok says:

    10 June, 2014 at 10:59 am

    Clare’s children are called Holly and Katie. Claires children , according to the article, are: Catherine and Sarah.

    You shouldn’t really be putting this up, should you?

  80. Grouse Beater says:

    Jacksloan said: BT have issued a “No Thanks” badge.

    Who would enter a pub wearing one?!

  81. Sandy Milne says:

    Typical Labour Party nepotism and corruption. The Labour Party has morphed into the very people it was setup to counter in the first place. This is just the same as hereditary titles and land passing down the generations just another example of corrupt power.

  82. James Sneddon says:

    TD – Claire is a labour activist she knows exactly what she is getting into. She knows the Scottish NHS is separate and how it is funded. This tribal hatred of the SNP has blinded her to what is the best outcome for our NHS and her family.

  83. Ravelin says:

    From a quick reading of the articles quoted and some supplementary Googling I’d say the following,

    1) This Claire Lally is PROBABLY NOT the daughter-in-law of Pat Lally as the timings just don’t “click”.

    2) The Claire Lally from yesterday probably is the one mentioned in the Daily Record article from 2012.

    From an Evening Times article on thier website…

    Claire Lally, who ­described herself as a mum from Clydebank, hosted the event.

    She said: “One of her twins born prematurely, seven years ago required extensive care from the NHS. I decided to get involved with Better ­Together to ensure our NHS remains the best in the world.”.

    Note that the spelling of Claire is ‘correct’. Also note that in DR article from 2012 her kids were 5yrs old and in ET article from today/yesterday they are 7yrs old!

    I note with interest too that Bay Rok only claims she ins’t related to Pat Lally, not that she isn’t the person from the Daily Record article in 2012. Care to comment on that Bay Rok?

    Oh and just to be clear, I’ve no doubt Claire is a very nice person and a dedicated and caring mum. That’s not what the article is about, it’s about the deceit of BT putting her forward as an ‘ordinary voter’. Also, if you openly put yourself forward as a ‘host’ for a BT event then you open yourself up to legitimate scrutiny.

  84. Rod Robertson says:

    O/T but as a football man Stu think you might like this ,it could mean a guaranteed YES Vote too coincidences ,or what?

    All things that happened in 1966, Austria won Eurovision, Betis was relegated, Milan & Man U did not qualify for Europe, Deportivo promoted to 1st division, Atletico wins the league, Madrid wins the CL, … all of them also happened in 2014. Now I bet you are hoping for another 1966-2014 coincidence .

    A guarantee of YES I would suggest if history repeats itself

  85. DaveyM says:

    Sorry,Stu. Duntocher is actually part of Clydebank.

  86. Davy says:

    Is this yet another falsehood from the “better together” campaign being thrown at the public as something genuine.

    It may just be me but to use a disabled member of your own family or to allow them to be used in such a lie, frankly is sick.

    The No campaign has no shame of any description.

  87. Cath says:

    That aside I’m sure Clare is a nice person and has battled for the best outcomes for her daughter.

    She may well be an amazing person, caring for her disabled daughter while also fighting for the rights of carers. And she may well be in the Labour party for all the right reasons, and a great addition to them as an adviser to the shadow cabinet on disability rights.

    That’s not the point. The point is she was presented as something she isn’t – a grassroots, non-political campiagner, when clearly she isn’t.

    Unless there’s been some huge mix-up and the Claire Lally at the rally yesterday actually IS a different one, with a striking number of similarities in name, location, disabled daughter etc. Surely if Rok knows her, that should be easy to establish from the photos.

  88. Cath says:

    “I decided to get involved with Better ­Together to ensure our NHS remains the best in the world.”.”

    And that statement kind of argues against her being a decent person truly standing up for the rights of the sick and disabled. Because with her political background, she cannot not realise it’s a lie.

  89. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This is a straightforward case of mistaken identity and shoddy journalism, and anyone can check the facts if they wish to.”

    Really? Where can we check these facts? Point me to the proof and I’ll happily correct any errors, although the article DOESN’T actually state that Clare Lally is related to Pat Lally.

  90. Dorothy Devine says:

    We could have a ” No Thanks to No ” badge made up.

  91. heraldnomore says:

    Meanwhile, elsewhere, another rally:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uPIFaW9bOW0

    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f4zdcrqehHs

    and
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylv_kyS3T9E

    So that’s Robin McAlpine, Mairi McAllan, and Alan Bissett, in the rain. Which rally would rather have attended?

    Rev, I think I’ve avoided all the embedding stuff, apologies if it causes havoc.

  92. bigGpolmont says:

    Oh look I was just surfing the web as you do and the Herald obituary to Peggy Lally (Pats wife)sprang out at me. She was a lovely lady I met her a couple of times .It appears that Pat and Peggy had two sons Robert & Derek who were married to
    Jennifer & Clare. Google Derek and Clare images and there are
    lots of pictures of the happy family.

  93. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “This Claire Lally is PROBABLY NOT the daughter-in-law of Pat Lally as the timings just don’t “click”.”

    The timings do work. The Herald obituary of Peggy Lally identifies her granddaughters without saying whose daughters they are. It’s dated May 2007 and Clare Lally’s twin daughters were five in Aug 2012, so it’s entirely possible they could have been born after Peggy Lally’s death and therefore wouldn’t have been mentioned in the obituary.

    As I’ve said, the article doesn’t actually state that Clare Lally is related to Pat Lally anyway, but I’ve as yet seen no evidence proving they’re not.

    And of course, as some have noted, nobody has for a moment disputed Clare Lally’s qualities as a mother or a human being, merely observed that it’s highly dishonest for her to be presented by BT as an “ordinary woman”.

  94. Stephen says:

    How low are BT gonna get if this is true I’m astonished at what they’ll do an say it’s starting to feel like victory no matter what the cost.

  95. Taranaich says:

    “She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    As has already been stated by others in the thread:

    1. Why does protecting the Scottish health service require saving the United Kingdom, especially considering the two health services are already separate?

    2. Why is she still with Labour? Hell, why are ANY socialists still with Labour after all the party’s worst have done to the people of the UK?

    I know Clare Lally well as a great campaigner for carers – she is a lovely, warm-hearted and down to earth mum who has battled hard for her family to live a normal life.

    You know that old phrase, “all that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing”? There is something even worse: “the road to hell is paved with good intentions.”

    I don’t doubt that Ms Lally – and many other Labour supporters – are sincere in their campaigning and beliefs. I even believe that she thinks Labour is still the party of Keir Hardie and Tony Benn. But the party has turned. The vampire of neoliberalism has sired a soulless husk in the body of the old Labour. It is a shell. A façade. A deception. And the sooner Ms Lally and others realise that, the better.

  96. Doug Daniel says:

    Bay Rok – stop with the concern trolling. The pictures speak for themselves – someone who we are being told is just an “ordinary” mum who’s never been involved in politics before is actually someone who has been involved with the Labour party for at least two years. That’s the story here.

    It is obviously Ms Lally’s prerogative to have a (presumably paid) position in the Labour party – there are plenty of party activists involved in the Yes campaign after all – but it is very dishonest of the No campaign to pretend she doesn’t have a history of involvement in politics when she very clearly does. Non-politicians don’t tend to have pictures of themselves posing beside numerous Labour MPs/MSPs like Johann Lamont, Ed Miliband, Chuka Umunna, Gemma Doyle and Anne McTaggart plastered all over the internet.

  97. Decko says:

    Sorry, It appears that there was a Lally Marriage to a girl called Clare, in Gretna, Dumfries in the year 2000 and by elimination I found out her maiden name is Morton, there are three births within that time frame that could account for this marriage, all three of them were born in the same year, 1980, I was born in Moray, Elgin, another in Ross & Crom, and our one born in Eastwood renfrewshire. so that would make her 34 years old. sorry for the post before please delete it seeing as i haven’t that option

  98. Edward says:

    Hmmm – (holding up arm for attention)
    Found this article from the Daily Mail
    https://archive.today/vQ5VP

    This is Ms Clare Lally who lives in Dunbartonshire, with her partner Derek Steel and disabled daughter Katie

  99. annie says:

    Better Together mission statement “Never get caught telling the truth when a lie will do.”

  100. Grouse Beater says:

    This is Ms Clare Lally who lives in Dunbartonshire

    They didn’t install a chair lift?
    Or think about giving her a more accessible council house?

  101. Sandra says:

    I know Clare. I don’t think she uses her children for political gain. If so the same must be true for me. I speak a lot about my boys and my wish for them in an Independent Scotland.Shame on Better Together though for getting Clare to say that she has a quiet voice compared to some Independence Supporters. Clare is a feisty woman with a powerful voice. I would never describe her as quiet.Shame on Better Together for promoting this rhetoric.

  102. Free Scotland says:

    The high-quality journalism of the Daily Record is on display yet again, with its obvious misunderstanding of the use of the apostrophe. From the context, we have to assume they meant carers’ rights and not carer’s rights, unless some lucky individual is considered to have more rights than all the other carers in Scotland.

  103. Edward says:

    Can I add that there is a Derek Stafford Lally who married a Claire Fitzpatrick in 1998 in Glasgow

    So is not the same Clare/Claire (sorry rev)

    But there is no getting away from the fact that Better Together with their friends in the press are out to manipulate the public

  104. Edward says:

    Grouse Beater – That’s a Labour council for you, why do something sensible when you can make a complete expensive and over the top solution

  105. scottish_skier says:

    Jeez, can BT not actually find a real member of the public who wants to help save the union? Just one? Is it that hard for them?

  106. Decko says:

    again by eliminationation on Scotlands People I have discover that is was an Andrew Lally, (who the heck is he) who married Claire Morton, in Dumfries in 2000, well he was born in 1971, in Fife, thank heavens they have all rare surnames as it wouldn’t be this easy.

    Listen sorry for the errors in grammar i am at work and doing this in a hurry

  107. Gillie says:

    So a West Dunbartonshire, a Labour controlled council spent over £40,000 on a ramp for Clare Lally and her family.

    Is it me or does this seem extreme?

  108. LJ says:

    Bay Rok, you’re asking Yes campaigners to assist in the cover up of a BT lie. The article does not criticise or berate your friend in any way so calm down. Lies like this need to be exposed.

  109. alistair says:

    o/t I’m sure someone here can help with some stats I’m after. a) How much are we paying in total on PFI contracts in Scotland per year, and b) how much are private contracts in the NHS in England worth. I saw these stats posted either here or on Bella but can’t find them again anywhere ! Thanks

  110. Bay Rok says:

    Clare is not a politician: just a full-time mum and care: she is however a great carers activist and a wonderful mum. She has spent more time in and out of hospital with her children than most politicians have spent in Westminster: she is not a career politician, and she is an admirable human being. Sure she is a Labour Party supporter and a No supporter, so what exactly? By harassing ordinary decent people like this all you are doing is adding fuel to the whole ‘cybernat troll’ and losing us the support we desperately need from Labour supporters and others. So, in addition to being despicable, it is also lousy politics. Once again, I request that this article be taken down – it is a seriously misleading and scurrilous piece of work.

  111. heedtracker says:

    There should be a biggest teamGB UKOK bullshitter of the year poll with an award ceremony after independence. My nomination goes to BBC in Scotland’s Sir Gordon Brewer/Severin Carrell at progressive liberal Guardian with special mention/category for Steve Bell, like the oscars with the oscar a smirky golden bull taking a big poop over Scottish democracy. Not sure what Scottish democracy looks like as sculpture though.

  112. Les Wilson says:

    Edward says:

    Wow! a great example of how labour could not organise a piss up in a brewery. Not the lady’s fault, just labour with no worries nor thought just how tax payer’s money is spent.

    Simpler solutions are available for such problems.
    Idiots, and would we every have them in charge of Scotland’s devolved spend every again?.
    Totally incompetent.

  113. TYRAN says:

    I noted with interest yesterday this “We are just everyday Scottish people (applause)…” clip by Clare Lally was featured prominently on the news, up against Nicola Sturgeon in the same piece.

    I thought at the time this was a broadcast stunt in order to make BT appear as grassroots and supported by your ‘everyday Scottish people’.

  114. heedtracker says:

    @ Bay Rock, which Lally are you complaining about? Or which report of which Lally are you complaining about and so on?

  115. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “By harassing ordinary decent people like this”

    Nobody has “harassed” her in any way whatsoever, and I’m getting very weary of the allegation. She can campaign for whatever she likes, but presenting her as an “ordinary mum” who isn’t political is a flat-out lie.

  116. keaton says:

    @Doug
    The pictures speak for themselves – someone who we are being told is just an “ordinary” mum who’s never been involved in politics before is actually someone who has been involved with the Labour party for at least two years. That’s the story here.

    Am I missing something here? How is it relevant that the two pics show the same person? Neither one is from the Times story.

  117. colin young says:

    @Bay rock my family are all disabled,this lady is beneath contempt using her children in this way.
    If she is a carer then she needs to stick to care, not politics.

  118. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Am I missing something here? How is it relevant that the two pics show the same person? Neither one is from the Times story.”

    Says who?

  119. jim watson says:

    Squirrels, why has no one mentioned squirrels yet?

    Nothing to see here – move along why don’t you…

    The labour party are notorious for using their activists and portraying them as “ordinary” members of the public. Look at any election leaflet and you will be able to see it from your own area – I am just surprised the journos let them off with this nonsense…

  120. Grouse Beater says:

    I’m jist an everyday Skottish person elevated up oan this platform an’ yous yins are way, way doon there oan the grund, less than ordinary, kinda commonplace ordinary.

    Tough luck.

  121. seanair says:

    The Mail must be in a tizzy, after denouncing the Council for spending £40,000 on a ramp, how can they turn it into a “nasty Nats attack beautiful caring mother of disabled child” ?
    No problem–watch tomorrow’s edition.

  122. steveasaneilean says:

    keaton beat me to it – do we have a photo of Claire at the BT rally so we can see that she is the same person as Clare who joined the Scottish labour shadow cabinet in 2012?

  123. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “do we have a photo of Claire at the BT rally so we can see that she is the same person as Clare who joined the Scottish labour shadow cabinet in 2012?”

    Yes, we do:

  124. RogueCoder says:

    @Bay Rok
    Nobody here has said a word against Ms Lally. We competely respect her right to campaign for a No vote, and we’re quite sure she’s a lovely lady and a dedicated and caring mum.

    The article is about BT misrepresenting whom she is, and the untruthful assertion that an independent Scotland’s NHS wouldn’t be able to provide medical care for disabled children. That is exactly the same lie that Vote No Borders peddled in their cinema ads, and they were told to withdraw them.

  125. Grouse Beater says:

    Can’t be the same person, stuart.

    One wears glasses the other does not.

  126. Ravelin says:

    At work so don’t have time to figure out a link but take a look at BT’s own Twitter feed (UK_Together). There’s a post…

    Clydebank’s very own Clare Lally kicking off @UK_Together #100daypledge launch this morning #indyref

    along with a picture of ‘Clare’. Unfortunately it’s taken from a distance so it’s very hard to tell if it’s the same ‘Clare’ but the persons characteristics are at least ‘consistent’ with the other pictures Rev has posted.

  127. Grouse Beater says:

    No- wait!
    Freckles everwhere, especially arms.
    Hides gap tooth smile in official photos.
    Long fake blonde hair, dark roots and eyebrows.
    Parson’s nose of a nose. (That last comment is misogynist.)

  128. molly says:

    Alistair,
    UK.Gov, current projects list PFI. It should tell you ALL the PFI projects ongoing but a word of warning-be sitting down when you read it !

  129. Ravelin says:

    Rev beat me to it, and with a much better picture. Note the caption “Better Together activist“. Of course given the BBC’s inability to get things correct recently I’m not saying that’s accurate but…..

  130. steviecosmic says:

    This has been highly amusing. BT caught again.

    Rev, I posted your betting article to Fb this morning and a mate from Oz sent me this message:

    ‘I have it on good authority from inside William Hill, that a bet for 400,000GBP has been placed for a NO result, made in London this morning. I said how sad will he be when he wakes up on 19th Sept!’

    Not a coincidence I fear…..

  131. bookie from hell says:

    BT need to stop dilly lallying and tell the truth

  132. chalks says:

    So Devo Max is coming is it?

    Or will it just be a united front saying that whoever is in government will deliver their devolution proposals.

    This will be their trick and the compliant media are already calling it ‘max’

    It’s not our idea of ‘max’ but to unionists, it is.

  133. heedtracker says:

    CLAIR LALLY BetterTogether Activist BBC vote NO Scotland

  134. Brotyboy says:

    Yes, we do:

    Quod erat demonstrandum.

  135. fergie35 says:

    Quite a large rally then, is that a studio they fitted 20+ LabServative activists into?

  136. caz-m says:

    O/T

    Listening to BBC news headlines regarding Michael Gove, Tory Education Minister, and the presenter told us that,

    “Michael Gove wants more British values entered into the English education system from September, which will be welcomed by the overwhelming majority of the UK public”.

    What?

    I just had to share that with somebody else.

  137. TheItalianJob says:

    Stu

    Seems like this site over past week or two has had a few people attack your posts. The other one is the so called “green supporter” who goes on relentlessy about the SNP etc.

    Could be as we are in the official campaign period that this site is to be targetted.

    Just saying.

  138. Castle Rock says:

    She is a Labour Party political activist Bay Rok who has used her position to try and hoodwink people that she is just a ‘normal’ concerned punter.

    We all have sympathy for her daughter but she is using it to undermine and harm the future of the Scottish NHS.

    What about all those ‘real’ concerned parents who have disabled children and need the NHS for support, help and care?

    Do we help Clare the political activist, the Labour Party and their Better Together partners to privatise the NHS?

    What do those all those ‘real’ concerned parents do then when the services are privatised and no longer available?

    And for what? So that the Labour Party can keep us tied to Westminster and they get another wee sniff at power? Look at where the NHS is in England, do you or anyone else seriously want that for Scotland?

    Clare has used her daughter’s plight to blatantly lie about the NHS, I think it is you that needs to think about it.

  139. JWil says:

    “Lally, a mother from Clydebank, with a child with serious health problems. She said she would do all she could to save the United Kingdom and protect the health service that had saved her daughter.”

    It seems that she doesn’t even realise that the NHS which so capably saved her daughter is headed by an SNP health minister.

  140. Scarlett says:

    PFI contracts are I believe, costing Scotland £1 bill a year.

  141. fergie35 says:

    Anyone who has No to Independence sympathys, is an ordinary citizen.
    Anyone voting yes, is a lunatic.
    The Leopard’s never change their spots.

  142. bookie from hell says:

    George Galloway ?@georgegalloway

    Gordon Brown may have been wrong about many things. But he’s right about Scotland’s future.

  143. HandandShrimp says:

    caz-m

    I think when Gove takes about British values in British schools he is talking about his own Bailiwick in England, not Scotland Wales and NI. No idea what he means by that though…presumably tea, tolerance and cakes.

  144. Training Day says:

    @caz-m

    If we vote No our school education system will be un-devolved as quickly as possible, so Cameron’s ideal of ‘British values’ being ‘inculcated’ in every school in Britain is entirely feasible.

  145. desimond says:

    Arent carers under the scope of Social work rather than NHS?

  146. heedtracker says:

    Where’s UKOK fudge man Duggie these days? This kind of och leave the poor wee soul alone big bullies, is right up his vote yes for dictatorship fudge alley.

  147. JWil says:

    When is the YES movement going to start pointing out that the implication of the title, Better Together, is that it suggests, by its very words, that Scotland is better off being subservient and dependent on the largesse of England. It’s an insult to Scots.

    Darling uses the term all the time. Someone needs to ask him what he is actually getting at.

  148. chalks says:

    Does anyone that article written about the privitisation of the NHS in England/Wales? It was going about twitter?

    Realise that is a bit general…lol

    Been meaning to have a rant on facebook and was going to use it.

  149. Patrick Roden says:

    So I wonder if Johann Lamont’s repeated claims, that she speaks to carers every day or that she gets letters from carers etc, are really referring to this person who is steeped in the Labour Party?

    I think fact that she is a lovely person is irrelevant, the fact that the Better Together Campaign has presented her as an ordinary member of the public and non political is the point.

  150. chalks says:

    Jwil – All they have to do is ask, how are we better together is health and education is devolved?

    If they come out with more powers, again, how are we better together if you have to give us specific powers?

  151. JWil says:

    @chalks

    Ok but they don’t ask. By ‘they’, I mean the political interviewers from the BBC and STV.

  152. Edward says:

    What sticks in my craw, is why Ms Clare Lally supports Labour and Better Together, despite the fact that it was a Labour council that cocked up the access for her daughter, or the fact that under Labour proposals (sans Andy Burnham) would see NHS Scotland merge with NHS England and end up privatised or even if not merged would still end up privatised, due to cut backs in the block grant due to cuts in the NHS in England

  153. Croompenstein says:

    ‘We are not so loud’, you don’t need to be loud you have the MSM and the British State doing your work for you…

    starts at 1:30

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04616yx/reporting-scotland-09062014

  154. bigGpolmont says:

    Bay Rok
    Get off your high horse man as far as I can see no one has said anything nasty about Mrs Lally.
    What I was pointing out was the fact that The times tried to portray her and the others at that rally as being “Ordinary”
    Mum of the Year, having contacts high up in the opposition to the duly elected government of the day, And married into a Family that once held sway over hundreds of thousands of people in the west of

  155. Helena Brown says:

    Scunnered sick of BT and their lying. Why on earth do people still cleave to this bunch of dead beat losers. I really do not care who the hell Ms Lally is, she seems to be an idiot of the first water in that she does not know the first thing about the Health Service that saved her child. Playing on people’s sympathies for disabled children seems to be a thing with Labour.

  156. TD says:

    Bay Rock
    How can you say that Claire is not a politician when she has joined the Labour shadow cabinet? She may have been an ordinary person and a committed carer, but now she is a politician. BT represented her as an ordinary member of the public and that is the lie. That is also the basis of the story. Why should the story be withdrawn?
    I don’t think she is being harassed, but the lie is being exposed. Nice people do bad things – especially when they are manipulated by cynics with no scruples. If Claire wants to respond to this story, then I am sure that we would all be interested to read what she has to say on this site.

  157. Capella says:

    The Labour Party have form on this. Anyone remember the War of Jennifer’s Ear? http://tinyurl.com/kk2gkbp. More twists than the ramp on Ms Lally’s front garden. (That ramp looks more like spite from the council than favouritism!).

  158. keaton says:

    @Rev
    Well, they’re not in the online edition, anyway. And both are in the 2012 Record piece, which is where I assumed you’d obtained them. If one of them was also used in the Times article, perhaps you should mention that? Otherwise it’s unclear what should be remarkable about the fact that the same person appears in both pics.

    Or just replace one of them with the pic you just posted from the rally, which puts the issue to bed.

  159. desimond says:

    The problem appears to be the classic “Blame the game, not the player!”.

    The trolls are trying to make out any anger is about the lovely caring mother with an opinion of her own while we know its nothing personal whatsoever; unless Clare willfully painted herself as a plucky bystander who suddenly felt compelled to take a stand given its clear how the NHS Scotland would collapse after a YES vote (she could maybe ask NHS for YES for advice?).

    If Clare gets her NO wish, then I just hope that should she earn money from her Labour Party gig, she doesnt go into a high tax band and find herself within JoLAs ‘Something for Nothing’ target range.

  160. heedtracker says:

    Lord Gove of Aberdeen on the Take, is a graduate of Roberts Gordon’s School in the center of Aberdeen. Gove’s school fees were all paid for by the tax payer so that Gove could benefit from Robert Gordon’s class sizes of between 8 and 12 pupils with every imaginable teaching aid there is. And all of it produced just one more raging far right Toryboy/buffoon.

    Gove began working life at the raging far right/royals worshipping/Scots.gov hating Press and Journal where his first act was to immediately go in strike and stand on the picket line for over a year, being paid no doubt by the National Union of Journalists, currently same outfit pretending to be very sad and very demoralised at the BBC in vote NO Scotland Pacific quay.

    Not saying Gove’s another nutter on the move but facts are facts.

    And politicians and journos keep asking why they have absolutely no cred out here in teamGB land.

  161. Grouse Beater says:

    Scarlett said: PFI contracts are I believe, costing Scotland £1 bill a year.

    Chavez set the democratic example other South American nations followed: he had a Bill passed in parliament that made it mandatory for at least fifty percent of executives on PFI company boards to consist of ordinary people.

    (That word again.)

    At the first opportunity those ordinary people voted their company’s extortionate interest rates halved or more!

    Scotland can do the same legally once it has autonomy!

  162. Sydthesnake says:

    I Have a disabled son, I would never, will never use his disability for any end, no matter how important the issue is.

  163. Kev says:

    Anyone who wishes to venture onto BT’s Twitter page can see a distant picture of Clare Lally speaking on stage at yesterday’s event. My problem is how on earth did the Times journalist not manage to see that this was the exact same person he/she inteviewed?

    They either did and continued to report the lie that she’s just an ordinary activist, or they didn’t interview her at all but simply reported what she said on stage (and then lied), or there was indeed a Claire Lally who isn’t Clare Lally, in which case they perhaps should have pointed out this was a woman with the exact (almost) same name and from the same town as the Labour party member that appeared on stage so as to prevent any confusion on the matter.

    Surely thats what any “honest” journalist would have reported?

  164. joe kane says:

    The Labour Party care so much about disabled people it only just recently buried its own report into disability and povert, which it had commissioned well-known disabled activists and academics to write for it. Naturally the authors of the report were appalled at the way their work was treated.

    Actions speak louder than words – Labour publish Poverty & Disability taskforce report
    25 Apr 2014
    http://benefitscroungingscum.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/actions-speak-louder-than-words-labour.html

  165. Giving Goose says:

    Message to the Labour trolls and supporters;
    1 in 5 Scottish children live in poverty, because of the Labour Party! Let us start to address this shocking statistic by asking Scottish Labour to apologise for this.
    http://whitefeatherclub.wordpress.com/2014/06/08/310/
    Please

  166. yerkitbreeks says:

    @ heedtracker Robert Gordon’s College was a sooper school when I was there – only 50 boarders, sons of ex-pats, out of 1000 and very many, like me, on local Authority grants.

    Sadly neoliberalism, a bit like persuading members to flog off the TSB for ” English gold “, has meant it has become exclusive and I get regular appeals to leave it everything in my Will. It’s now constantly boasting how its pupils ( boys and girls, as it failed to gobble up Albyn School for Girls ) represent Scotland – a bit like over 50% of gold olympic medal winners were from the private sector which educates 7% of our population.

    Creeping privatisation, like the NHS south of the border. The reason we have been converted to YES.

  167. velofello says:

    A key strategy for “Scottish” NuLabour is to empower local councils with funding – and cunningly – neuter the Scottish Parliament. The photos on here of the ramp at Ms Lally’s front garden is a excellent worked example of what I fear would unfold. Who on earth sanctioned that piece of nonsense? Her business is her business but if I were in her shoes I’d be campaigning against the persons who, vindictively surely, designed, approved, and installed that folly. But then in a comment above, did I read that Ms Lally requested that house well aware of the three flights of steps? I’d have thought a one level house would have been the answer, but then Labour in power didn’t build many council houses. Was it six over a dozen years or so?

  168. Bay Rok says:

    Clare is a Labour Party supporter and a No campaigner. I am a Green Supporter for Yes. We happen to be on the same Committee for Carers Scotland – working together to get a better deal for carers whatever the outcome, getting a Carers Parliament going, lobbying to raise the level of carers Allowance from a pittance of £61 per week. We are both ‘ordinary people’ as well, in that neither of us derive an income from being active in the community and working for a better deal for carers. Clare’s membership of the Labour Shadow Cabinet is, as far as I understand it, as an unpaid carers adviser and ‘token carer’ to ensure that Carers are not forgotten in policies – we are often invisible and ignored, so it is a very welcome. So, she is not standing for office, she isnt a politician, she isn’t a paid adviser, she isn’t related to Pat Lally, but she is a worthwhile and admirable person and you will have to take that from me as Yes supporter and as a carer and campaigner myself going back over 20 years.
    This article is horribly wrong, because it does personally attack a citizen activist who is also a dedicated mother and carer. It also is a classic case of mistaken identity, caused by not checking the sources properly. If we continue to campaign like this we will lose this referendum, I kid you not.

  169. annie says:

    Labour regularly drag elderly ill people to the Scottish Parliament to attempt to denigrate the Scottish NHS and the SNP Government,it would appear that no one is too old or too young to be exploited by them.

  170. Giving Goose says:

    Further to my recent above post; I’m not the only blogger who feels that Scottish children – All Scottish Children – have been greatly let down by Scottish Labour.
    Labour – an absolute disgrace!
    http://grumpyscottishman.wordpress.com/2014/06/09/breadline-kids/

  171. bigGpolmont says:

    Bay Rok
    Get off your high horse! as far as I can see no one has said anything nasty about Mrs Lally.
    What I was pointing out was the fact that The times tried to portray her and the others at that rally as being “Ordinary”.
    Mum of the Year, Having contacts high up in the opposition to the duly elected government of the day, And married into a Family that once held sway over hundreds of thousands of people in the west of Scotland, could never be construed as ordinary!
    I have been involved with people with disabilities for the best part of fifty years
    I myself was in a wheelchair and calipers for years so believe me I would never bad mouthing Mrs Lally for her campaigning. It is the media that I take issue with If any of us can find a direct link to her connections to the Lally family, The labour Party hierachy or the no campaign with a few dozen Keystrokes why did the journalist not choose to do that? The only thing that I take exception to re Clare lally is that she is perpetrating the Myth that The NHS is one. God forbid but if she were needing treatment south of the border The reciprical treatment agreement we have in place would mean that she would receive the same treatment as an English person in England
    and Which is sadly inferior to the treatment anyone whether they are English or Scottish would receive north of the Border.

  172. David Briggs says:

    Looking at the two photos, if I were asked to pick out somebody from a line up containing the lady in the first photo I would say she was the same as the lady in the second photo.

    Where is the fuss? they are photos of the same individual.

    Bay rok can demand as much as he/she wants. Were I not a gentleman I would tell he/she where to go.

  173. slackshoe says:

    @ Bay Rok:

    You seem to know an awful lot about her involvement with Labour. Just saying.

    Even if everything you said was true (which I don’t think it entirely is), the fact still remains that Labour are presenting her as an “ordinary mother” (i.e. not a political activist) and using her as a mouthpiece to perpetuate bullshit myths about the Scottish NHS, the very same NHS that provide care for her daughter.

    Aren’t you disgusted by that? You should be.

  174. joe kane says:

    It was the last Labour Government which extended the DWP sanctions regime to include sick patients and disabled people.

  175. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Bay Rok,

    Your points appear to be fair enough; I’m not going to argue since I have no knowledge of the woman at all. But I would say if she is a citizen activist I’m flatly amazed that she would espouse the view that the NHS that helped her family so much is better served in the union.

    In her position it is phenomenally hard to conceive that she does not know what Westminster are doing to the NHS.

    I’m sure if what you about who she is happens to be true WoS will print a retraction, but on the grounds that she is quoted as wishing to defend the NHS while staying in the Union…. she’s worth pointing out purely for the ridiculousness of the statement.

  176. Grouse Beater says:

    Gove and Cameron to back “British values” in … English schools.

    If you asked them to define British values I bet they’d come up with waffle.

    English have called themselves British for so long they’re no longer sure what it is to be English.

  177. Peter Macbeastie says:

    P.S – you certainly don’t have to be paid, or a councillor, or anything else to be a political activist. So that, I’m afraid, gets no one off anything around here.

  178. Gillie says:

    Summary:

    1. A BT activist described as being just an ordinary member of the public.

    2. A BT activist who is a member of Johann Lamont’s shadow cabinet.

    3. A BT activist that has a £40,000 ramp built outside her house by the local Labour council.

    4. A BT activist who allegedly sold her private home and managed to get a council house of her choosing.

    Is that a correct summary?

  179. HandandShrimp says:

    (That ramp looks more like spite from the council than favouritism!).

    I remember that story and I think I commented somewhere at the time that it looked like a vindictive “Ramp? I’ll give you ramp” response rather than a favour.

  180. desimond says:

    Are BT moving from FEAR into CARE tactics

    The classic “Yeah we see that those Yes folk are nice but look we CARE even more and here are some of our nice common friends to tell you thats the truth, honest to God it is, we have no agenda. Vote No and you too can get down the Old Smiddy and sing “We are the world” at karaoke with Jola!

  181. ronnie anderson says:

    Does that Bay Rok no remind you,s of somebody recent on here

    the Duggie wie the bone. Enough tae drive a person doo lally,

    am no Only the Lonely, am taking ma friend Allypally ! whit

    your taking your friend Allyballyballybee,Eaw Eaw ! whits

    wie the donkey.

  182. Wired of Hermiston says:

    “Gove’s school fees were all paid for by the tax payer so that Gove could benefit from Robert Gordon’s class sizes of between 8 and 12 pupils with every imaginable teaching aid there is. ”

    I went to the aforementioned school and I can assure you that when Gove was a pupil there the class sizes were not 8-12 pupils. Up until the very end of my schooling there typcail class size was around 30-36.

  183. Wired of Hermiston says:

    Also the facilities were shite then!

  184. TD says:

    Bay Rock
    Well, if your position is that a member of the shadow cabinet who presumably mixes with the most senior members of the Labour party in Scotland and discusses “policies” with them (why else would she be there) is not a “politician” then there is no persuading you. But everyone else sees this for what it is.
    There is no harassment, but there is legitimate exposure of lies – not so much by Claire but by the BT organisers.
    The alleged mistaken identity is a bit of a red herring – I certainly don’t know the true position on this. But the Rev has said that if he is given evidence that proves that Claire is not related to Pat Lally, then he will retract. Over to you I think.
    As for the impact on the outcome of the referendum, I would think that exposing the lies and cynicism of the BT campaign was a pretty good way to get more people to vote Yes. But that’s just my opinion.

  185. Helena Brown says:

    @Bay Rok, you need to ask yourself why your friend is an idiot who is quite likely being turned into a complete mug today. She did it to herself nobody seems to have made her. As a carer does she not know that Scotland’s NHS is a separate beast, because by making the statement that she is supporting a NO vote for that reason says it all. I would think as a caring friend you should enlighten her. Oh and the first person who EVER described me as an ordinary voter better be wearing running shoes. I am an extraordinary voter who on the 18th of September will hold her countries life in her hands and I will not be wasting it.

  186. Castle Rock says:

    Look Bay Rok, I’m really Johann Lamont and even though I pretend to be the leader of the Scottish Labour Party I am actually an undercover Yes supporter and have been ever since I started campaigning way back in 1979.

    I kid you not.

    Now fuck off and troll elsewhere.

  187. Tasmanian says:

    So she’s one of Johann’s quiet bat people then?

  188. steveasaneilean says:

    As someone who works in the NHS in Scotland we have to get the message across loud and clear. The NHS in Scotland is and always has been independent. The NHS was forged in Scotland in 1913 by the setting up of the Highlands and Islands Medical Service – it did not arise de novo in the brain of a 1940s Welsh Labour politician. The HIMS came around as a result of the Liberal Party feeling bad about the fact that national insurance only applied to those in employment and so shafted the Highlands and Islands.
    The NHS in England is being dismantled – a process which started in the early 1990s, accelerated under New (i.e.Not) Labour and is now being driven to its logical conclusion by Westminster.
    They would dearly love to do the same thing to the NHS in Scotland and the only thing stopping them is the fact that NHS Scotland is independent and the Scottish Govenment are not playing ball with Westminster.
    Anyone who think that in the long-term the NHS in Scotland will be better served by remaining part of the UK clearly has no understanding of the NHS in Scotland and the core values that lie at the heart of those who work in it – healthcare free at the point of access, not-for-profit, universally available and based on need not ability to pay.
    For Better Together to keep bringing up the NHS in Scotland as a fear tactic is disingenuos and highly insulting to people like me who have been fighting for 20 years to prevent what is happening in England, with Labour approval, being visited on the NHS in Scotland.
    So if you REALLY care about the NHS in Scotland and want to protect it the only way to do that is to vote Yes.

  189. O/T The unionist parties are going to unite in offering us more devolution. So interesting to see the article in this morning’s FT –
    https://archive.today/xdTV7

    This is the same as what Lamont has been talking about — devolution of power to cities, the article refers to England, but presumably it wouldn’t take much discussion amongst the unionist parties to agree more devolution to Scotland i.e. along the same lines as the system being considered for England, with some powers devolved to large cities. Hardly what Scotland wants.

  190. seanair says:

    Grouse Beater
    It’s always difficult to know what Cameron means when he uses the word “country”. If he means to include Scotland he will be laughed at.
    A truthful English document would surely include the advice, “Always disrespect the Jocks because they are inferior to us”.

  191. Cath says:

    she is a worthwhile and admirable person

    I’m all for respect in debate, and I had hoped the independence one could be run with respect, and ultimately that debate itself would result in a better Scotland, and hopefully better UK. I had such high hopes for that back in 2011, and genuinely thought wiser heads in the UK would prevail and a proper, decent debate would be allowed, even if there was some dirty tricks.

    As time goes on and it becomes clear the UK and Westminster parties will not allow that, but prefer instead to demonise yes supporters and sink to the level of truly evil lies, such as those involving sick kids and cancer research, it’s becoming ever harder to remain polite with NO activists who, by being a part of that campaign, condone and encourage it.

    I try as hard as possible to remain polite with no voting friends. But I’d draw the line at activists right now. I don’t see how anyone can be a part of that campaign in good conscience. And what she is saying is repeating the scaremongering lies about the “British NHS”.

    If the No side ever start to allow reasonable debate, I’ll regain my respect for their activists.

  192. muttley79 says:

    I Lally cannot believe that even SLAB have sunk this low (sorry could not resist it).

  193. MajorBloodnok says:

    With BT having changed their badge slogans from “UKOK” to “No thanks” certainly brings home the phrase politeness costs nothing*, and that’s what you get if you vote NO.

    (*or less, as the case may be.)

  194. Mosstrooper says:

    I know nothing of Clare Lally and care little apart from some human empathy. I would however advise her to consider the two following aphorisms.

    1)If you stick your head above the parapet expect to get shot at.

    2) If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    Oh! one other thought.

    If you can’t stand the heat stay out of the kitchen.

  195. Seasick Dave says:

    Bay Rok

    Are you being deliberately obtuse here?

    Ms Lally is not an ordinary member of the public.

    Ms Lally is campaigning for a No vote which will almost certainly have a drastic effect on the services she claims to care about.

    We should be free to criticise on both counts.

    Maybe you could have a word in her shell like and get her to comment on here as to why she can’t see that a Yes vote will be to her advantage.

  196. Clootie says:

    O/T

    If you are in the Aberdeenshire area.

    Ivan McKee – businessforscotland. Tonight at the New Inn – Ellon
    19:00 for 19:30 start

  197. Ken500 says:

    Shameful tax evading Gordon Brown will not have even written the latest ‘Speech’. A PR company will have written it. Pay for by public monies while the vulnerable starve. Labour/Unionists hang your heads in shame, for what you have done to Britain.

    Still no apology.

    Vote YES

  198. Fiona says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Once again I cannot post my reply to you: it is here if you are interested

    http://thosebigwords.forumcommunity.net/?t=56427925

  199. Grouse Beater says:

    Seanair said:
    It’s always difficult to know what Cameron means when he uses the word “country”.

    Fair point – the main reason “national news” is so misleading for me, ultimately a bore. They talk of England’s problems most of the time as if Greater Britain.

  200. Clootie says:

    This has to go on every Facebook link possible. This is shocking stuff – very crude manipulation of the public by Labour for their Tory friends.

    I wonder how low Labour can sink!

  201. Cath says:

    Maybe you could have a word in her shell like and get her to comment on here as to why she can’t see that a Yes vote will be to her advantage.

    I’d like to see that. Give BT activists like this some space to spell out for us why exactly they believe the union is better for their own field of expertise. Let’s see if there is a case, or some reasoning behind it other than the BT lies and scaremongering, which is intended to work with those who don’t know how the NHS works.

    It would be interesting to see if they could do it, even if it meant resorting to an argument that is, at heart, more one of emotion. Or that comes from an understandable fear of change when you’re already struggling to cope with something, even if there aren’t really any facts to back that up.

    The problem isn’t this woman’s views – she’s absolutely entitled to hold them. I have no voting friends who will admit it’s emotional, and that’s fair enough. The problem is BT lying about who she is, and the constant use of slogans and lies that play on other people’s unfounded fears, rather than presenting fact and reasoned debate.

  202. heedtracker says:

    Clare/Claire Lally’s was to join Labour’s shadow cabinet which is a very astute career move for any aspiring Labour MP. And Clare/Clair must have actually joined the shadow cabinet by now though as the Record thing is from August 2012.

    Which does beg the question why the Times says Clare/Claire is a “volunteer” BetterTogether speaker? Maybe Clare/Clair has not been paid anything for being a member of the Labour Shadow cabinet, ergo the Times is accurate and not another bunch of cheezee liars for UKOK, Bay Rock?

  203. Ken500 says:

    Cameron’s solution. Secretly devolve Scottish fund’s to London City. Thatcher Mark 3

  204. JGedd says:

    The thing is, even though the article and the posts are very clear that they are not attacking Ms Lally, who sounds as if she does admirable work on behalf of carers, it’s what the dark forces of BT spin will make of it. So while Bay Rok may not be a troll it sounds as if he/she has already alerted Ms. Lally to what is being said.

    The minions of BT may be working away in their dark cellars at this moment spinning a sticky spider’s web of illusion and manufactured outrage. Since Ms.Lally is also an activist that will again escape mention in what will be depicted with pretended indignation as a vile cybernat attack.

    Perhaps we should just leave this alone? There will be many other escapades of those scamps in BT which can be scrutinized in coming days and this will not be the worst of them.

  205. Alfresco Dent says:

    Whatever is else Claire may or may not be she is definitely a liar, and very possibly a fool.

  206. Ken500 says:

    Is Bay Rok Ms Lally?

  207. Fiona says:

    @ Alfresco Dent

    She is not necessarily a liar. She may be mistaken and she may have been misled. What is definite is that she is wrong

  208. R whittington says:

    Clearly an independent Scotland is going to be a lovely and harmonious place! 😉

  209. Ken500 says:

    With a mentor like Jackie Baillie, every care workers public enemy, it would be easy to get things wrong. Ignorance is no excuse.

  210. HandandShrimp says:

    Mr Whittington

    It will a feisty argumentative place…just the way we like it.

    Don’t mistake this for nastiness, Clare seems like a good mother and a decent soul, we just disagree with the nomenclature “ordinary voter”.

  211. Grouse Beater says:

    R Whiitington said: Scotland is going to be a lovely and harmonious place!

    Actually, find a cottage in the Highlands and it’s exactly that. No one said happiness is living in noisy cities.

  212. Ken500 says:

    Jackie’s on to Paul at the Daily Mail already, the jungle drums will be getting hot. Smoke screen

    It would be laughable, if it wasn’t so tragic. People can see straight through the hype.

    Vote YES

  213. The Rough Bounds says:

    Isn’t it amazing how people with some form of disability or have a member of their family who has some form of disability are alway wonderful, caring, nice, friendly, cheery, honest people?

  214. Brotyboy says:

    If you fly with the craws you’ll get shot as a craw.

    This reminds me of the Yorkshire expression, ‘He tries to run with the hare and the hounds.’

    Although I prefer the Lancastrian version, ‘You can’t ride two horses with one arse.’

  215. bigGpolmont says:

    How can the Times possibly say that she is an ordinary person?
    The picture above from facebook shows the daily retards headline “MUM JOINS POLITICAL ELITE”
    Two newspapers saying exact opposite! Since newspapers dont tell lies what are we to do? Then on top of all that Gordon (Backadder )Brown calling for the debate between Salmond and Cameron! Now I am really confused!
    This must be the cunning plan that Alistair (baldrick )Darling had to save the union !

  216. Grouse Beater says:

    Lally’s pally with Aunt Sally’s rallies.

  217. James says:

    Bay Rok, please explain how in any way is this article a personal attack on Claire/Clare? The only thing I can see which could be possibly construed in such a way is ‘prepared to lie on command about the NHS for political ends.’ And if this statement is not true it would mean the Claire/Clare in question is lying of her own volition, or is just simply wrong and blindly spreading untruths to further her misguided political agenda.

  218. Brotyboy says:

    Lally’s pally with Aunt Sally’s rallies

    But no sae pally with AllyBally.

  219. desimond says:

    Im sorry, but until i see evidence that Clare ( respect Gilbert O’Sullivan) has had her photographs taken by that Vote No Borders commisioned Camera clicking genius like all the other “ordinary Scots” last week, then Im out!

  220. Geoff Huijer says:

    I don’t know which is worse…

    Someone purporting to be just a ‘regular’ non-political person or the newspapers that print the lies.

    Probably the newspapers who should at the very least check the facts. Mind you, they probably did check the facts but it suits their agenda.

    They didn’t think they’d be found out.

  221. desimond says:

    The Rough Bounds

    Theres a very good Frankie Boyle routine involving a fast driving tax exile but we can discuss offline over a drink one night, rather than here!

  222. Bay Rok says:

    There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all. wtf does having a ridiculously complicated wheelchair ramp put up by your cooncil have to do with anything? Will you be suggesting that she gets preferential wheely-bin collection next?

    You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines, but I were a journalist writing up this discussion, it would probably read: “Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” . I hope you are all fucking proud of yourselves. Now fuck off.

  223. James says:

    Again, please explain where the article personally attacks the mum of disabled kid. In any case, just because she has a disabled child doesn’t make her untruflul assertions any less open to criticism!

  224. haud on the noo says:

    “You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines”

    So they write themselves ?

  225. Jamie Arriere says:

    I’m struggling to get worked up about this. So BT dresses up a Labour activist, with links to the party to the extent that she’s an associate adviser to the Shadow Cabinet, as an ‘ordinary Joanna’ – OK, but that’s what BT/Labour do and have always done.

    We’ve exposed that, so now just let the woman get on with her admirable work.

    Let’s get onto Gordon Brown calling for a Salmond-Cameron debate

  226. Fiona says:

    @ Bay Rok

    I have not monstered this woman in any way. Most of the posters here have not. But if you think that having a disabled child puts you beyond criticism of any kind then you are mistaken. When you accept a public platform and use it to spread false information that will be the subject of adverse comment.Doesn’t matter who you are nor how sincerely you may hold your position.

  227. Sydthesnake says:

    the rough bounds:

    please don’t tar us all with the same brush

    I am all of the things you say, ask my mum lol

  228. Grouse Beater says:

    Bay Rok said: You know, nobody controls the stupid headlines

    I’ll complete your sentence:

    Nobody controls stupid headlines which is why the SNP have no mandate to do that. That right belongs to the people of Scotland who are denied their democratic right by the SNP.

  229. Shangan says:

    The Record article does not say her husband is called Derek. It says her partner is called Derek. Derek Steel. He is about 3 years younger than Pat Lally’s son Derek (Lally, not Steel) who is coincidentally married to someone called Claire. I’d drop this angle if I were you, it distracts from the otherwise decent points you make.

  230. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The Record article does not say her husband is called Derek. It says her partner is called Derek.”

    The Clydebank Post one, however, says “husband”.

  231. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    My impression is that the only mistake is the hint that this “ordinary” Labour activist and member of the Scottish shadow cabinet is Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law.

    That’s the coincidence. Pat Lally has a son called Derek, who is married to a Clare Norton. This person’s maiden name is Clare Lally and she’s bidie-ins with a Derek Steel.

    Bay Rock has latched on to this mistake and is now lambasting Wings for the entire article. Well he says he knows Miss Lally and she’s a wonderful person. Which is probably entirely true. But she’s a wonderful person who is most certainly a member of the “political elite” whom we’re being asked to accept as an “ordinary (non-political) Mum”. This is dishonest.

    Now if she really was an ordinary Mum, maybe she would have an excuse for believing the NHS to be all one service and that fighting to save the union was necessary to preserve it. This is a lie that gets a lot of coverage. But as she’s a Labour politician, she has no such excuse.

    She’s flat-out lying about the NHS. She’s actually working against her daughter’s best interests in campaigning for the union, because the union will wreck NHS Scotland. But she’ll do it for her party loyalty.

    And did she also accede to being misrepresented as an “ordinary Mum”? We wonders.

  232. No no no...Yes says:

    Found this on Jim Murphy’s twitter:

    https://twitter.com/jimmurphymp/status/475940979502231552/photo/1
    Jim says:

    “Host CLAIRE Lally a smart and passionate speaker.”

    Jim will be right enough then!

  233. Gaz says:

    The husband is called Derek Steel and she is Claire Lally, now the obituary says the Guy is the son of Pat Lally and his wife claire, wouldn’t the woman if married would be called Claire/Clare Steel? Also, I put up this article on FB and was promply messaged from a friend that she KNOWS Claire and that this article is fiction at best..

    oh, and I’m a Yes Voter, but I will not be tarred with the liers from labour..

    Gaz..

  234. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The husband is called Derek Steel and she is Claire Lally, now the obituary says the Guy is the son of Pat Lally and his wife claire, wouldn’t the woman if married would be called Claire/Clare Steel?”

    Yes, except that the Clydebank Post muddies the water by saying that Derek is her HUSBAND and giving her name as Lally, which would mean his name was Lally too. Which is why we didn’t say she WAS Pat Lally’s daughter-in-law, merely suggested that it seemed plausible.

    As for the spelling, it seems that the Telegraph simply got that wrong, which is understandable if they only heard it spoken on stage. The “Better Together”/”United With Labour” Clare Lally IS the same one as in all the other stories, which is the important point.

    “Also, I put up this article on FB and was promply messaged from a friend that she KNOWS Claire and that this article is fiction at best..”

    What part of it is fiction? Give me a single quote that’s factually wrong.

  235. Clarinda says:

    Helena Brown – 1.24pm

    Thank you for rejecting the tab “ordinary voter” etc. – it’s not that I object one bit to being one of Jock Tamson’s bairns – it’s those who refer to me as “ordinary” that I really object. Robert Burn’s had little time for those “coofs” who thought themselves our betters – I can’t run very fast now so I rely on you to catch any unfortunate coof on my behalf.

    I imagine that BT who have allegedly called Ms Lally “ordinary” in whatever warped sense of promoting some weird lowest common denominator to impress us ‘ordinary folk’ enter the category of coof as we of “independent mind …. looks an’ laughs at a’ that”.

  236. Derek M says:

    wow Bay Rok you sound real annoyed and telling people to f off in such a nasty way makes me think you are a No activist and afraid of intellectual debate since thats what you lot are hopeless at hmm lets just spin some more lies and get a fancy pr/add company to help cause we are so crap at it,losers!

  237. TD says:

    Bay Rok
    I think your last post demonstrates quite well that you have lost the argument. Shame you had to be so offensive about it.
    I for one am not going to pursue this further, because I really think that as Yes voters we should pull together.

  238. steveasaneilean says:

    So Rev can you take out the references to Pat Lally in your article above? It remains just as powerful without them and that way there can be no accusations of mis-representation – just the simple fact that Better Together are presenting people as something other than what they are and that they are using the NHS as a fear tactic which is a very “nasty” thing to do in my view.

  239. galamcennalath says:

    Whether it’s Lab, Con, BT, VNB… they seem incapable of finding genuine non political ordinary people to do their bidding . All astroturfers!

  240. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all.

    Now that is classic concern troll. What sort of a person, convinced that a Yes vote is right for the country, would change to No because they had a spat with a few people on a blog site? Even people who were being fairly obnoxious? Right.

  241. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    I expect Stu will correct the article when he gets back. He said he was away to do an interview.

  242. Grouse Beater says:

    English have called themselves British for so long they’re no longer sure what it is to be English.

    By sheer coincidence a feature has just popped up on the Guardian site expressing exactly that question, and the result is a confusion of contradictory definitions.

    One states simply, “It’s Philip Larkin outside a library with a bicycle” – which of course is not really British more English.

    Didn’t former PM John Major think it was somthing along the lines of, “Drinking warm beer on the village green while the vicar cycles by, on a balmy summer’s day.”

  243. Cath says:

    were a journalist writing up this discussion, it would probably read: “Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” .

    Does everything that’s ever been said about David Cameron that isn’t heaping praise on him as a wonderful person also count as “monstering the Dad of a disabled kid”, including being pissed off about him privatising the NHS down south?

  244. slackshoe says:

    Spare us your faux moral indignation, Bay Rok. Nobody is attacking Clare/Claire.

    I think your petulant outburst just proved that you know we’re right.

  245. Gillie says:

    We know enough about Clair Lally now to conclude that she is hiding behind the ‘ordinary’ tag to spread lies about NHS Scotland.

    “Oh, what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive.”

  246. slackshoe says:

    It is textbook concern trolling. “Oh, I would definitely vote yes if it wasn’t for (insert petty reasons)”

  247. @Bay Rok

    Surely as a YES voting Green party member,you know that welfare will never be devolved if we vote NO?

    I get carers allowance for my daughter,I cant get a job because of the school holidays and the fact she needs specialist care.Due to cutbacks the only playscheme she can go to may soon close.
    My local council is run by a Labour/Tory coalition(i am not making this up!)

    So thats my childs future,cuts by westminster,cuts by the council and no way to raise the current level of carers allowance unless its devolved(which it wont be)

    How the F*** is that Better Together!

  248. Dal Riata says:

    Saw that Claire/Clare “Better Together activist” yesterday on the BBCBI giving it the ‘UKOK is wonderful’ stuff and gave it the usual ‘Aye right! FFS! and a shake of the head’ response to the Better Together lie machine.

    Ah, but here we are today with the news that Claire/Clare is not, as the Times says, an “ordinary” woman at all, but one who is, indeed, according to the Daily Record of April 28, 2012, part of “Labour’s shadow cabinet as their first ‘Carers Champion'”… Well, well, who woulda thunk it, eh! Better Together and their MSM propaganda machine caught out lying and misinforming… AGAIN!

    And, how come she was the one chosen to be given airtime on the BBCBI? Curiouser and curiouser.

  249. Caroline Corfield says:

    Between Scotland’s People website and 192.com it should be an easy and relatively cheap exercise to discern a) are there two Clare/Claire Lallys in Clydebank ( which includes Duntocher whether Duntocher likes it or not), b) are they married or partnered to Derek Lally or Steel, and indeed the full names of their children.

    This will provide two outcomes 1) there are indeed two separate sets of people living nearby with uncannily similarly detailed lives – not impossible just relatively improbable
    2) there is one set of people, and due to poor diligence their names are misspelt, their surnames misattributed, their children’s names shortened and mixed up.

    In scenario 2) I am curious as to how articles in the national press remain uncorrected if this is the case

    As to the ordinariness or otherwise of someone who is a card carrying member of a political party and indeed the Labour Party in Scotland – I think statistically that makes you quite un-ordinary, ordinary people do not belong in political parties statistically. One can easily campaign for something without joining a party, in many cases it might even be easier, no divided loyalties. For example, in my experience where my mother was the chairwoman of Strathclyde pre-school play groups association, it did not stand in her way in getting access to politicians or councillors, or negotiating for funding, or having an input to policy decisions.

  250. Norma says:

    Bay Rock, if you are serious about voting Yes, I fail to see how disagreeing with a few people about loyalties to a friend/acquaintance, would make you change your mind! This vote is far too serious to let your country go down the tubes simply because you are offended by remarks made here, especially as the majority are not personal or offensive!

  251. Mary Bruce says:

    It is almost a mental illness the way that some people will put the interests of a political party before the wellbeing of an entire nation.

  252. Dal Riata says:

    “There are some people posting here with such anally-retentive and paranoid viewpoints that I am starting to wonder whether voting Yes is really such a great idea after all.”

    Classic concern trolling.

    ““Cybernats Monster Mum of Disabled Kid” . I hope you are all fucking proud of yourselves. Now fuck off.”

    Concern troll implodes! ROFLMAO!

  253. Nana Smith says:

    O/T This is good

    A debate on Friday at Dingwall Baptist hall

    Results after the meeting yes with 63 votes and no with 25 votes and 11 undecided

  254. turnip_ghost says:

    O/T but I do like having a neb at the BT website every now and again…Apparently they can’t reply on “the lottery winners” unlike the Yes campaign….They fail to mention the dodgy deals their big donator has with the middle east…In fact…they fail to mention him at all. It’s genuinely just bile that comes from them…how do they do it day in, day out?!

    https://d3j5vwomefv46c.cloudfront.net/photos/large/856385558.png?1402409257

  255. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    What is with this “donator” word? Where did it come from? “Donor” – the normal usage for literally yonks – even needs two fewer key presses to spell.

  256. Edward says:

    Bay Rok or what ever your actual name is
    You really are coming across as an idiot
    but more that I think
    No one has actually said anything against Clare or Claire

    The reference to the wheelchair ramp was an observation that her local Labour council had let here down badly, again nothing against Claire/Clare. It was being critical of the council, which Clare also criticised in the Daily Mail article.

    So to make more out of it, just make you out to be rather stupid.

    I some how doubt you are who you make out you are, that of being a Green Yes supporter, and sound rather like a moronic Labour activist or even a trainee journalist looking for an angle

  257. Nana Smith says:

    Brilliant Bateman takes down Gordon Brown!

    http://derekbateman.co.uk/

  258. john j says:

    The Labour party in the west of Scotland has been a self serving nepotism for years, Martin, Shinwell etc. Now our Clare (or Clair) is being groomed for stardom and a safe Westminter seat by the sound of it

  259. Free Scotland says:

    How much time has been wasted today on Bay Rok’s meaningless guff? Let it crawl back under its rock.

  260. Colin Mccartney says:

    In addition to Morag’s post regarding a Green Yes voter who changes their mind because they struggle in an online debate, a quick look at Facebook shows Ms Lally glamming it up in ever changing profile pictures.
    8 since March.
    Anyone else have friends who care for family / Children who have the time for that?
    With a disabled child and those horrific ramps to negotiate, where is the sweat and snotters and vomit usually associated with a carers roll?
    An ordinary person? I think not!
    WARNING – the usual gruesome picture of Ed.

  261. HandandShrimp says:

    What I would like to know is why the concern trolls always pick on the Greens as their fig leaf?

  262. Grouse Beater says:

    Classic concern trolling.

    Americans classify trolling.

    For example, anything that assassinates character or brings it into disrepute is not trolling but “snarking,” named after Lewis Carroll’s poem, “The Hunting of the Snark” wherein it’s finally harrassed and disappears.

    Definitions go all the way up to narcissist and sociopath – making easier identification of miscreants eligible for court action.

  263. Morag Graham Kerr says:

    Caroline, my impression is that there is only one family with the disabled child. Clare Lally (maiden name), bidie-in with Derek Steel. She is the Labour activist, member of shadow Scottish cabinet, go-to person on disabled rights and so on. Now being falsely showcased as an “ordinary Mum”.

    Due to the fact that Pat Lally’s son Derek has a wife named Clare, and Pat Lally is a Labour high-heid-yin, some confusion has arisen. I’m not entirely clear where that originated.

    I’ve not seen anything to suggest that Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lally (son and daughter-in-law of Pat) have any public profile at all, or indeed a disabled child. All the photos of Clare Lally the activist are of Miss Lally.

    No doubt someone will now demonstrate that even this is wrong. But it’s what seems to me to be the case at the moment.

  264. Pete says:

    Apart from the fact that she is miss-representing the facts, (i.e) telling lies in an effort to scare those less in the know. The Standard of state healthcare in Scotland far surpasses the same south of the border. There are a few exceptions with specialist hospitals however these hospitals currently provide cross border health provision from multiple countries. The only real risk to everyone’s healthcare is Labour and the Tories. If Scotland doesn’t break away from London rule, it will be more than our health care provision that we will have to worry about.

  265. heedtracker says:

    @ Bay Rock/Duggie don’t go, all thats being pointed here is the Times telling porkies for union again and rather blatant lies from BetterTogether, again.

    So don’t sulk Bay Rock/Duggie, tomorrow they’ll have another round of liars for the union and all for us to laugh at. As you’re a Yes vote Bay Rock/Duggie, the sneering anti Scottish democracy malice pouring out of the Press and journal here In Aberdeen today will make you proud to be a Britnat.

  266. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Alfresco Dent, @ 10 June,

    “Whatever is else Claire may or may not be she is definitely a liar, and very possibly a fool.”

    Perhaps more a fool than a liar, though that would not apply to her handlers.

    Two bottles down and cooking a bolognese sauce.

    Onwards and errr, upwards.

  267. turnip_ghost says:

    Morag,

    You are, of course, correct. Donor should have been the word I used! Don’t know why I put donator…

    *tips hat* Consider me chastised 😉

  268. desimond says:

    Has the Rev apologised to Patrick Harvie yet. it seems his website has upset his 2 voters.

    And yeah, i just put that in to annoy the rest cause I’m an SNP monsterer.

  269. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @ Morag Graham Kerr says:
    10 June, 2014 at 3:35 pm

    Caroline, my impression is that there is only one family with the disabled child. Clare Lally (maiden name), bidie-in with Derek Steel. She is the Labour activist, member of shadow Scottish cabinet, go-to person on disabled rights and so on. Now being falsely showcased as an “ordinary Mum”.

    Due to the fact that Pat Lally’s son Derek has a wife named Clare, and Pat Lally is a Labour high-heid-yin, some confusion has arisen. I’m not entirely clear where that originated.

    I’ve not seen anything to suggest that Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lally (son and daughter-in-law of Pat) have any public profile at all, or indeed a disabled child. All the photos of Clare Lally the activist are of Miss Lally.

    No doubt someone will now demonstrate that even this is wrong. But it’s what seems to me to be the case at the moment.

    BINGO?

    ?

  270. Proud Cybernat says:

    NHS safe in the Union? Cliar!

  271. John Hamilton says:

    I think Labour have been going a bit Do Lally here.

  272. Iain More says:

    Bay Rok

    Seeking to deceive is still seeking to deceive. I am a 24/7 carer but I will be voting Yes. I don’t possess her political ambitions though and I don’t come from a political family either. But that is vacuous statement on your part.

    I however am not a political activist for any political Party and certainly not for any British Nationalist Party that is hell bent on destroying those social services that us carers depend upon for some relief. I don’t expect to be getting an invitation to sell out Scotland or its social services any time soon Bay Rok.

  273. Jim says:

    Clare Lally has indeed been involved in the Labour party for years rubbing shoulders with its executive and good pal of Des McNulty.

    She was relatively recently given a house by the council who installed a zig-zag ramp costing £40,000 which neighbours claim she often doesn’t use. Meanwhile she rents out her former council house to someone else and is in effect a landlord. Very selfish person.

  274. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Get Wee Ginger Dug to comment here?

  275. Marcia says:

    I could be classed as an ‘ordinary voter’ coming back after doing something for the Yes campaign today. No-one, being either No or Yes, who appears on TV at a stage managed event will be ordinary. That person will be vetted to make sure they don’t go ‘off-message’ and will be briefed to get the message the campaign wants to be appear on the news programme as a ‘sound bite’.

  276. Harry says:

    I’m sure there was a feature on her on The One Show a few months back. The windy ramp and Duntocher set off alarm bells.

  277. Fireproofjim says:

    Enough of this. It is not important , except to add one more to the collection of BT deceptions and half truths. Claire/Clare will not make a difference to anything so forget her.
    Meanwhile (OT) Nicola is speaking at the Edinburgh Napier University in Colinton Road, Edinburgh tomorrow at 7pm. Target audience is the undecided. Bring along a doubtful friend.

  278. Proud Cybernat says:

    Where does BT/UKOK/NOBBERS get all these Cliars?

  279. Ian Brotherhood says:

    HTF is it possible to spend 40k on a wheelchair ramp? Eh?

  280. HandandShrimp says:

    Bring along a doubtful friend.

    Or a genuine friend who has doubts

    :)

  281. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    “Where does BT/UKOK/NOBBERS get all these Cliars?

    Friends and Family?

  282. HandandShrimp says:

    Ian

    Have you seen it? I think there were less ramps involved in building the Great Pyramid, every centimetre guarded by zinc coated railings. It is a monstrosity. I can’t believe there wasn’t a simpler more aesthetically pleasing alternative.

  283. Caroline Corfield says:

    Thanks for clearing that up Morag, I was beginning to get quite confused :-)

  284. Andrew Morton says: