Vote for DEATH
The Scottish Conservatives have put out a properly disgraceful press release today:
No they wouldn’t. That’s a complete and utter lie.
The piece continues:
But we already know that none of this is true. As the Scottish and English NHS are already completely independent from each other (and therefore “foreign” to all intents and purposes), there would be no change in their relationship whatsoever.
We covered the subject in considerable depth and detail almost a year ago, so we won’t repeat ourselves here – new or forgetful readers can just click the link.
The Scottish Conservatives know that full well, of course. But they have an elderly audience, so just like Gordon Brown’s groundless, lie-based scaremongering over pensions last week they take advantage in order to frighten old folk that they’ll be left to die if Scotland votes Yes.
(The small print, of course, talks only of minor elective and outpatient procedures, but the headline screams “THOUSANDS AT RISK” for maximum terror.)
The No campaign will sink lower and lower as the referendum nears and the polls tighten, and old people are one of its bulwarks. The full force of Project Fear will be turned on Scotland’s grannies and grandpas, who are also the people least likely to use the internet and most likely to get their information from newspapers and TV.
If you haven’t spoken to yours for a while, readers, maybe you should.
daily politics
Griff Rhys Jones
comedian tv presenter
the welsh are sensible(scots not,for wanting independence)
its reverse racism
even jo Cocburn face dropped
thought it was a not the 9 oclock news sketch
This was confirmed on Morning Call yesterday. A couple of elderly no-voters were asked where they got their information, both replied “I read the papers and I watch the TV”. Young folk, go out and educate your granny! You’ll probably get soup and a fiver for your efforts.
This garbage is also in the BT leaflet that is being slowly delivered to some parts of Scotland. 5 years ago I had to go to a hospital in the Wirral England, for proton beam treatment for Cancer tumour in my right eye. This treatment is only available at a few limited sites around the world. During my week long stay there, other patients from around globe were also in attendence. These included New Zealand, Sweden, and Germany to name but a few, all of whom alas are independent countries. When I enquired about this comes about it seems that it was standard practice. As a side note my treatment and stay in local hotel was paid out of the Scottish Health budget. The Scottish health service was even then a separate service from the UK. So the Conservatives are saying that we will treat other nations but not Scots after independence. They are down right liars nothing is further from the truth. Nothing will change this is pure and blatant scaremongering by the Conservatives.
A wee helping hand for the red tory on Scotland tonight.
I always find it amazing that even NHS workers don’t know that the independent separate Scottish NHS has existed since 1948 so I suppose you excuse Tories ignorance on public heath matters as a opposed to the increasingly private system south of the border.
BBC having a go at the Scottish NHS this morning were firmly put in their place by the independent Dr Jean Turner who pointed out the the shortages of nurses etc were caused by decisions taken 20 years ago by the Westminster government who thought that the increasingly elderly population wouldn’t need to stay in hospitals.
And of course PFI exacerbated the situation as the new hospitals were built with fewer beds than the ones they replaced.
As with many arguments – I think the easiest way to pose questions to undecideds is to illustrate what happens in the island of Ireland where people from NI go to the Republic for treatment and people form the Republic go to NI for treatment (or even to the rest of the UK as illustrated in last year’s Wing’s article).
Ireland is the one place where the UK already has a land border – and over many years there have been many practical common-sense arrangements put in place in several areas, often in historically very difficult circumstances, so why would Scotland and the rUK not do the same in easier political and historical times?
The grey vote was always going to be our Achilles heal (no offence to our senior independenistas)! Pensioners will, as they usually do, turn out in huge numbers, and many still believe what the BBC tells them. We certainly do need to speak to our grannies and grandads, but many fear change.
Fortunately, this time, YES may be compensated by the huge numbers of disenfranchised people, who hardly ever vote but are intending to vote in the referendum. Most of these people will vote yes. It is up to us to encourage these people to make sure they are registered and make the effort to vote. Hopefully, the grey vote advantage that the NO campaign enjoys will be neutralised.
The No campaign are constantly asking business leaders to ‘speak out’ against Independence.
It is time that organisations such as the Scottish NHS spoke up clearly to counter these lies and let the public know the true situation.
If Yes Scotland or the Scottish Government said it the No machine of the newspapers and the BBC would attack them.
There appears to be a kind of complacency in the Scottish NHS that somehow they will be safe from the cuts just because these are in England and Wales.
My mother-in-law, who’s still around, did her part in getting Margo MacDonald elected in Govan in 1973. Needless to say she will be voting Yes.
For the rest I think the Samaritans or someone should operate a dedicated Indy hotline.
If you’re terrified by the mental Tories, call this number…
Can’t get that sticky Labourish thing off your back? Phone here…
Etc.
What devious, slippery, selfish rats they are.
My mum is in her 70’s. She is voting yes. My parents in law are in their late 60’s, they were undecided until the currency lecture. Now they are voting yes.
Hopefully those pensioners who have a say in our children’s futures will get it right on the day!
That is a round about way of saying that they will be telling europe to fuck off we are leaving
“Those arrangements would be at risk”
Probably an excuse for bureaucrats to carry out risk assessments.
Actually, it might be worth contacting NHS PCTs regarding this for their official opinion on the matter.
Probably more risk from this:
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/feb/labour-threats-scotlands-eu-funding-must-stop
I can just hear Jackie Bird practising that opening line “VOTE FOR DEATH!…a political party highlights what could happen under Independence..”
Speaking of empty threats..dont forget…its Future First Minister Nicola vs The Invisible Debating Woman tonight on Scotland Tonight’s Debate Show at 10:30 GMT ( Glesga Moaning Time)
Prediction : A “draw” no doubt according to Studio experts!
No currency union.
No pound.
No large banks.
“This is no theoretical problem for Scotland, as financial services is a huge employer across the country. About 185,000 people are directly and indirectly employed by the industry, or about 7pc of the country’s total workforce.
Overall, banks, insurers, assets managers and the sector’s ancillary services such as accountancy and legal work generate about £9bn of onshore economic activity in Scotland every year, equivalent to in excess of 8pc of GDP.”
Somehow I don’t think anyone working in finance will go anywhere near voting “Yes”.
Osborne is a genius; he just killed “independence” forever.
Listen up old folks! Don’t let the Conservatives scare you so much, your hair turns grey. That was an ineffective rebuttal, wasn’t it? OK, let’s try again.
Attention, slipper wearing duffers! Don’t let the Conservatives frighten you into wanting hip surgery in Manchester. It’s far away in another country & is full of foreigners who eat black pudding for their tea. And you’ll probably wear out the rubber feet on your zimmer long before you even get to Carlisle.
Are you having a nice time? Isn’t the weather shocking for February? Ginger snap biscuits don’t taste like they used to, do they? No, I-Pads won’t help with incontinence, it’s a phone.
And never let anyone treat you like you’re a moron. So always best to be sensible about these matters & vote NO in September.
Oh, you’ll need your glasses & a biro.
My parents are in their 70s. My Father, a lifelong Labour voter until 2007, is a nailed on Yes. My mother is 95% of the way there.
But it is sobering to think of the damage some of our older citizens may (inadvertently in most cases) inflict – through fear of change or simple ignorance of the facts – on generations of Scots to come.
I see the obligatory reference to “foreign” in a negative sense again by the unionists/British nationalists. More and more they are sounding like Basil Fawlty. Do they understand how xenophobic this appears to everyone else? How to other nationalities in Scotland feel at this constant denigration of foreigners by the No campaign?
At least our dead grandparents can’t vote NO by default, like in ’79.
Bunter, the wee red Tory will be destroyed by Nicola tonight,no matter what ammo she thinks she has. Poor Carmichael hasn’t been right since,and wants out of politics altogether.With or without her Westminster script jimmy is beat.
@Lindsay
UK government figures clearly demonstrate that Scotland will be wealthier after independence than we are now.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/unleashing-a-firestorm/
Do you not think there would therefore be some need for financial institutions in Scotland after independence and that said financial institutions might be aware of that? Unless of course you think that without the pound Scotland would immediately regress to a barter economy? (Granted Unionists will believe and/or say anything to support their visceral hatred of the SNP).
Of course, the institutions could all leave out of a kind of herd instinct or psychoticaly induced spite (good riddance I’d say) – but a) I don’t think that are that stupid and b) new ones would surely step straight into what would be a lucrative market, in a resource rich and legally debt free independent Scotland…
I had a friend who was waiting on a lung transplant and was informed that if Scotland was independent he would not get his transplant. He is now concerned that his aftercare will stop if we are independent.
It is very difficult to get someone who is so vulnerable to think differently.
People know when they’re being lied to. You’re a BetterTogether planner, polls show YES going up, fear is all you have left. Advertisers know exactly how to wrap the feel good factor round anything, cars, ipads, loo roll, wars, UKOK. Does fear and the Conservative mix as in “are you thinking what I’m thinking” from Michael something of the night Howard?
Even prior to NHS, Scotland has always had an independent health system.
There have never been a British health system.
NHS Scotland and the New Zealand health system have reciprocal agreements on health provision.
http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1982/0176/latest/DLM66508.html?search=ts_all%40act%40bill%40regulation_United+Kingdom&sr=1
@ lindsay
“Osborne is a genius; he just killed “independence” forever.”
And yet the polls are tightening, strange.
Oh, and no currency union does not equate to no pound!
I’m going to bring this up with my grandparents who I’m just heading off to see just now. Sad to say my grandad probably won’t be here to cast his vote in September but it truly sickens me to think that our older generation should be exploited and treated in this way. How dare they. This one I’m taking personally as both my grandparents are in poor health just now, to treat any voter in this way is below gutter politics. I’m so angry just now.
@ Lindsay
Shouldn’t you be back in school by now?
Is there no depth of deceit that these ‘honorables’ will not stoop.
This utter desperation suggests that there is something putrid that they are trying to keep hidden.
The sooner they are made to stand on their own two feet, the better for all of us.
Rev your previous post is not showing up on your ‘Recent Post’ list.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/this-is-numberwang/
It works both ways.A friend of mine has just had a serious operation in Borders General Hospital. He lives in Northumberland!
Don’t know but wouldn’t be surprised if a Dumfries hospital does the same for north-west England inhabitants. The most serious danger to cross-boundary co-operation is England voting to leave the EU.
This from the party that thought the Liverpool Pathway was care for our elderly and not starving and dehydrating them to death.
I’m a grey voter, septuagenarian, and voted SNP since I could, and I know many more of the same persuasion; don’t worry about our vote, guys, we’re more aware than most of what we have to do, having already done it once, and having been cheated out of it by Wesminster mendacity – never again!
O/T Looks like Lindsay has been visiting the telegraph site
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/10660186/Scotland-No-pound-no-banks-is-not-an-idle-threat.html
Another example when an asset in the UK is a liability to and independent Scotland!
Osborne is a genius; he just killed “independence” forever.
Did you pinch that quote from George Robertson?
@ Linda’s Back
Yes, heard Jean Turner too. She was great. At least twice Beattie tried to get her to say English NHS is better and she sent him packing. Having been wound up, her parting shot was that the problems stem from WM decisions taken before devolution.
I almost choked on my buffalo burger. Sign her up!
Best bit is she’s a former independent MSP, so no political line to follow.
Why do BT just threaten to invade us and save months of bullcrap!
In a way, with the debate tonight, I am happy for this ridiculous nonsense to come out now rather than tomorrow.
Nicola Sturgeon will have an absolute field day with this.
I almost feel sorry for JoLa!
Note I said Almost !!
On a side note, is it just me who thinks the tories are using the referendum marriage of convenience to try smash the credibility of scottish labour? Over and above the good job they are doing themselves obviously.
Oop “why do BT not just” that should read there.
Hmm state broadcaster using the ”seperation” word regards Ukraine against a nice wee bombed out backdrop.
Think about it logically. An independent Scotland with a very healthy economy, an oil fund and a government for social justice, why would an iScotland need to send anybody outwith Scotland for treatment. We will have the best health service money can buy. It will be the envy of the world and free to it’s people. Have faith people!
Lying barstewards! 🙁
Derek Bateman has another good article today. The ‘cornered rat’ comment is particularly good. 😀
http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/outraged-tunbridge-wells/
Please use this http://archive.is/ for this http://archive.is/ZQhPw but thanks for the link anyway and it recieves my BTL Tory Boy vote no hypocrite of the week mug award this week and its only Tuesday.
“Colin • an hour ago
All joking aside, it is a crying shame that at the time of the best chance for independence in my lifetime, the people of Scotland are represented by a bunch of fourth rate light weights. I listened to Salmond on the radio yesterday, being interviewed by Jim Naughtie. Despite the serious tone of the interview and the serious nature of the questioning, Salmond could not resist a jab at Cameron’s background, namely his time at Eton. This sort of rubbish may play well with the heid bangers, the buckfast brigade and the braveheart numpties; but serious, Scots citizens will be worried that this is the sort of Muppet who could end up running and ruining their independent country.
The idea that these self absorbed idiots, concerned only with their place in history, could, after all this time, be so ill prepared, and so completely incapable of constructing the basic arguments needed to persuade the people of Scotland and the wider business community (crucial for prosperity), of the case for independence, is virtually criminal.
I am in the NO camp, mainly because I don’t believe the political class, currently existing Scotland is up to the job of governing an independent nation. I’m worried that what looks like a silly, populist attempt to portray an independent Scotland as some kind of Cuba on the Clyde, is just designed to avoid answering the important questions”
So that’s me told.
This is where the Yes paper could be important. If the next one was less AS+NS and more Dennis C and the other Labour stalwarts (retired) going on how indy means better pensions, safer NHS and not losing free care with a bit about how new childcare would be good for the grandchildren and we shouldn’t stand in the way of what the youngsters want for their futures as our futures are not going to be as long as theirs, (pause for breath) that would influence a lot of that older generation who still respect what’s written in a newspaper.
Ah Lindsay,
Call me a cynic, but I can’t help feeling that your not just an ordinary punter!
‘The number of employees in financial services’
that as a % of the total workforce,
the income as a % of Scotland’s GDP,
It’s just not the way ‘ordinary people’ are viewing the referendum bud.
Scots who have researched the issues to the depth of knowing the information you have shared, do not gleefully report how the Tories have killed Scotland future stone dead.
Scottish people who look into things inevitably become don’t knows or Yes’s.
So why don’t you run along to whoever pays you and tell them that your gleeful approach to debating doesn’t work and that you need a spot of ‘re-training’ or should that be ‘re-programming’?
If your a ‘Proud Scot, but’
Bugger off you little lickspittle, you make me boak.
And they need to keep banging on that Yes Scotland can afford it
@Lindsay
To quote the wonderful Ivan McKee during a recent Oil based argument on the BBC “Oil companies go where the oil is”…similarly banks go where the money is.
Therefore, Im confident that there will be no financial institution worries if the wealthy Scotland gain Independence. Then again, Im only a qualified member of the Investment Banking Industry, what do I know compared to a History grad like George Osborne.
You are right though, George did kill the argument stone dead, that was last week when he dared threaten us against the pound.
Punctuation matters!
And they need to keep banging on that “Yes, Scotland can afford it.”.
🙂
What’s the betting JoLa’s just remembered (or, rather been ‘reminded’) that she’s doing her hair tonight?
Who/what could they replace her with?
Bring back Carmichael! He must be dying for another shot.
Osborne is a genius; he just killed “independence” forever.
Stone dead?
It is like the Tea Baggers Party in the States calling Obama’s medical reforms Death Panels. That said the Tories are not much different from the Tea Baggers.
I was talking to an elderly No voter the other day. His principal reason for voting No was “Thinking about all those that fought and died in the battle of Britain”. He also mentioned all these “foreign” workers taking our jobs.
I asked him politely how old he is. It turned out that he was two years old at the time of the aforesaid battle. I also mentioned that without the “foreign” Free Polish Air Force the battle of Britain would have had a very different outcome. None of this made any difference.
That is one No voter that I won’t waste my time on again. Some folk just latch on to any old reason to justify voting No. There is no logic behind their argument.
I have elderly neighbours who are convinced to vote “YES”. However, they are still substantial numbers who have no access to the net are sticking to the “NO.”
I believe door to door canvassing will change their stand. We need proactive approach to make a convincing referendum.
Cheers.
@Ian
Who/what could they replace her with?
http://tinyurl.com/nptmeqy
Good thing Scotland’s elderly remember the tories very well.
Lindsay says, ” Osborne is a genius; he just killed ‘independence’ forever ”
You can’t really tell if Lindsay is Labour or Tory, can you? They are indistinguishable in their detestation of independence, so that risible endorsement of Osborne could have come from either camp. George is a chump, promoted way beyond his abilities.
As for me, I’m a granny. Guess which way I’ll be voting?
I’m amazed that Jed Clampett who discovered oil in his back yard didn’t just fill in the hole and pretend it didn’t happen. Volatile stuff oil. They took granny to California private health care in USA!
They seem to have run out of new lies so are just regurgitating the old ones. Seven more months of vomit to come.
heedtracker says
“Salmond could not resist a jab at Cameron’s background, namely his time at Eton.”
You think that this was a truly insulting thing to say, HUH!
Have you ever seen the long term abuse that Alex Salmond has suffered across the board, from Westminster MP’s, The Unionist press, the BBC, STV, and every corner of Internet land.
If this upsets you,then you are hardly being objective, to say the least. Go and have a look at some of the Unionist blogs, and come back and tell if if what you said was, just slightly misplaced.
OT
Ok so JoLa vs Nicola tonight…suspect it will go the way we all expect
Though to be fair in the Beeb debate with Swinney, (the night Carmichael-Moore crumbled and asked Rona for help) JoLa wisnae a complete basket case
But lets have a game of JoLa bingo….
‘Scotland on pause’
‘WHAT DAE YOUSE NAE UNNERSTAUN ??’
‘Best of both worlds’
‘Ah care aboot the people in Manchester etc’
Any more ?
We are being to harsh with the poor thing. It comes to no surprise she’s of that opinion, you see…she thinks:
““The UK NHS benefits patients north and south of the border in so many ways”
She probably didn’t get the memo warning her the Scottish NHS was founded in 1946, completely independent (hate word) from the English NHS.
What they are saying, and not just in this ridiculous piece of garbage, but all the time, is that if we vote ‘Yes’ they will not trade with us, not sell to us, not buy from us, and do everything they can think of to make life difficult for us. Even if it hurts them more than it hurts us. So they are promising to behave like an irrational, scorned spouse. Because they love us so much!
So basically what they’re saying is that things will go back to the situation they used to blackmail us into the union in the first place, modern day Alien Act and all. Only they can’t, can they? The world has moved on. There was no EU in 1707. No WTO either. If they actually tried what they are suggesting, they’d be isolating themselves from the world. I’ve never actually seen someone literally cut off their own nose to spite their face before. Should be fascinating, in a macabre sort of way.
In reference to “Red Rodent’s” statement and latest fear tactic that there will be an exodus of Banks and financial institutions. There will be money to be made in a free Scotland, so if these go, others will come. I think Barclays, for one said it would make no difference to them.
Also, all businesses will go where there is a business friendly environment, an Independent Scotland WILL be that!
You’d all be delighted to know:
RT @David_Cameron I’ve been talking to @bbcnickrobinson, saying how we all benefit from Scotland being in the UK pic.twitter.com/K2Os1VQNZ5
That’s the silly indy thingy sorted.
Typical Tory lies, well spotted Rev.
One could almost wonder if this was a pre-planned attack, as the BBC sternly questioned the health minister Alex Neil this morning, claiming the NHS staff we’re on the verge of a breakdown, even though Scotland has more staff and beds per head, than anywhere else in the UK.
Oh how I loathe the bias BBC, surely a good clear out of this entity unto itself, needs restaffed after it becomes the SBC.
The PM’s education at Eton is relevant as it suggests that he may be out of touch with reality in Scotland which for many involves poverty, starvation, lack of heating, unemployment and many other experiences unknown to him. Moreover, by his actions, and his words, the PM only confirms, lest there be any remaining doubt,that he is indeed out of touch with the vast majority of the people of Scotland.
As a regular recipient of health care from the NHS in Scotland, I know it’s an independent and ever-improving service, the main risks to which come from a NO vote and the creeping privatisation so favoured by current and previous Westminster Ministers – pity that the MSM has to resort to lies, halftruths and obfuscation, but they’re rattled because they know that Scotland is awake and that they’ve been rumbled.
When our nation’s wealth is properly directed to bairns, not bombs, to health education, as opposed to funding a state of the art service for amputees returning from service in illegal wars,our people will prosper and the posh Tories of Eton and elsewhere can repent at their leisure.
Just back online after my router died last Friday so some serious reading to do, it really isn’t good for your mental health to be out of touch for so long,especially when so much happening and can be sure the papers and BBC aren’t telling the whole/true story.
“I’m a grey voter, septuagenarian, and voted SNP since I could, and I know many more of the same persuasion; don’t worry about our vote, guys,”
With all due respect Lee it’s not just you and your friends that are voting, although I wish all were voting like you.
Unfortunately most people in Scotland don’t have a computer (something that a lot of us on here don’t realis) to go online to get their stories; they still get their news from newspaper’s headlines and from the TV.
I hope the next YES newspaper will have a less positive headline and more of a truthful headline like; £6 billion (£2.5 planned and £4 billion on the Barnett formula) cuts and in that YES newspaper I’d like to see more prominence to debunking stories like the one above.
We all have a lot to do to inform, circumvent the media and get the message out to the people who are not political anoraks and who don’t have a computer.
Word of mouth, leaflets, newspapers etc.
Seanair writes in favour of EU membership. EU membership would put more restrictions on Scotland’s economy than the Union ever has. After ‘sterlingisation’ fails, Scotland would be pushed into the euro, with the loss of all fiscal and spending autonomy.
Scotland will have more independence in the continuing Union than as the EU’s 29th dependency.
@TheGreatBaldo says:
But lets have a game of JoLa bingo….
‘Scotland on pause’
‘WHAT DAE YOUSE NAE UNNERSTAUN ??’
‘Best of both worlds’
‘Ah care aboot the people in Manchester etc’
Any more ?
“Wee things”
@Will Podmore
Newsflash! Scotland is already in the EU. Can you therefore explain how such a situation is constraining our current fiscal automony? Also, do you think that trade with EU member states will be harder or easier if we are in the EU? Finally, are you aware of the various steps required for any country to adopt the Euro? Thanks.
My Gran-in law is Conservative. The only newspaper she buys is the Sunday Times. She reads a load of cobblers in that, mainly ‘Britain being full up, immigration’ She’s 83, voting Yes. Her late hubby was an activist for the SNP in the 60’s and 70’s.
She is also god bless her getting an IPad this week and connected to the Internet for the first time. It will save me a lot of printing off stuff each week to rebut the crap she reads in the Times and I will be directing her to this page and Newsnet.
You lucky,lucky man Stu.
@Will Podmore says:
Seanair writes in favour of EU membership. EU membership would put more restrictions on Scotland’s economy than the Union ever has.
The Union is toxic for all sub-economies within the Union that are not the South-East corner.
The rate of increase of toxicity is accelerating.
I got to London about every six months, and get a snapshot of how it is progressing.
Had tea this afternoon with my “Old Dears” over the fence – seven of them in total.
So I asked and was told in no uncertain terms to vote YES – as they could see a brighter future for my boys that they were denied for theirs.
That’s me told then LOL
JoLa will not debate she will shout over anything Nicola tries to say a la Sarwar and be given her draw or narrow win by the unbiased MSM judges.
What the Telegraph newspaper thinks the Union Jack will look like without Scotland, plus their usual anti- Alex Salmond propaganda speel.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/10658649/The-unnecessary-expense-of-staging-rival-Cabinet-meetings-in-Scotland.html
O/T – some thing for Scottish Skier to chew on. SS has often mentioned the Electoral Commission’s recommendation that the Scottish and UK governments should agree on a joint position clarifying what will happen after a Yes vote.
Stephen Tierney has a new post entitled Why is Scottish independence unclear? on the Scottish Constitutional Futures Forum blog at http://www.scottishconstitutionalfutures.org/OpinionandAnalysis/ViewBlogPost/tabid/1767/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/3119/Stephen-Tierney-Why-is-Scottish-Independence-Unclear.aspx – highly recommended. Tierney’s take on this question is:
“But this [the agreed statement] is not going to happen. Uncertainty among voters is an important card for the Better Together campaign. It is simply not in the political interests of the UK Government to work with the Scottish Government to clarify possible negotiation outcomes. And in any case it may not be in the interests of the Scottish Government either should such pre-referendum discussions result in stalemate, thereby serving only to heighten rather than diminish uncertainty before the vote.”
My hunch is that Tierney is right. BT’s whole strategy is based on maximising uncertainty among Scottish voters. The UK government can’t clarify the issues without scuppering the BT campaign and they’re not going to do this at this stage.
This is not to say that things may not change. A time may come, particularly after the European elections in May when the threat from UKIP is clearer, when the Tories decide that BT is a liability that has to be ditched. This itself would create whole new fields of uncertainty – but by that time it might not matter.
For those of a self selecting memory.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/alex-salmond-dictator-comparison-bingo/
BBC radio Scotland 16:15 warning that north sea oil is in dire straits, due to no new exploration by oil companies. Its so patently obvious to anyone with a brain cell that the BBC in all formats is effectively Westminster’s lapdog.
How much longer can we listen to this bias?.
@Lindsay
Your own lot killed the union stone dead when you got devomax taken off the ballot paper. Its the only thing you have to offer but you fought so hard to get rid of the only option that would have threatened full independence so whose going to believe anything thats offered now, you lost all credability when you did that.
A masterclass from FM Salmond. Fools ha ha!
I’ve posted before about this ‘joint’ statement, it ain’t happening.
I don’t see why it would either considering the political ramifications for the english parties for being seen to ‘do business’ with the separatists.
We are in this, on our own. The Scottish people against Westminster, the mainstream media and god only know’s who else, Emperor Palpatine.
@Lindsay
Getting a bit tiresome now…
“Vote for DEATH”
Ah well, on the positive side, does that mean we get the “death benefits” those financial experts in pensions and insurance are always on about?
Here we have the Tories defending “Zero hour contracts” and Tory party chairman, Grant Shapps, saying “The Conservative party are the workers party,and we are on your side.”
Ian Duncan Smith commented, zero hour contracts are helpful, and useful to employers and foodbanks, only hit the headlines due to the publicity they received.
This attitude really does sum up the Tories.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/iain-duncan-smith-defends-zerohour-contracts-as-tories-recast-themselves-as-the-workers-party-9151668.html
After David Cameron telling us yesterday there’s bucket loads of oil left, I also noticed Reporting Scotland at 1.30pm reeling out Douglas Fraser with the tired old doom and gloom ‘the oil will run out tomorrow’ nonsense.
Has he no idea how stupid he now looks and sounds.
@andy-B
Did it mention where this new exploration is? The only place I know of is in the North Atlantic, a lfair chunk of which is in… wait for it, SCOTTISH WATER!!!
They no doubt failed to mention all the new technology thats being developed to extract this oil from deeper waters. Isnt it the deeper water thats supposedly the problem with the remainder of the North Sea fields?
2 birds killed with one stone!
Optimistically, UKIP are on ~3% in Scotland. Looks like they could be ahead of the Scottish Senior Citizen’s Unity Party now but likely a tight race again in 2016.
Here we have the Tories, possibly re-branding themselves for the 2015 election, the new name maybe the workers party, and their tree logo changed to a ladder. This move is suggested by backbencher Robert Halfon.
Halfon said it started out as a bit of “tongue in cheek”, but party bosses have seemingly taken it to heart. Could we be seeing the Tories, trying to be more accessible to the common man, though in my opinion they’d still be wolves in sheep’s clothing.
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/will-tories-really-re-brand-themselves-workers-party-1437891
Forget JoLa vs NS – let’s see Ivan McKee versus that whatsisface chuntering on right now…Douglas Fraser?
We don’t have enough rigs…exploration is dying…if you vote Yes I’ll shag yer maw…
Vote for Death!
Indeed, because if you are passing that way you will notice that the 1874 foundation stone of the Cambridge Corn Exchange was laid by one “John Death”, who happened to be Mayor of Cambridge at the time, so someone must have voted for him.
http://www.victorianweb.org/art/architecture/rowe/4.html
On my way home I’ll tell the construction lads to not bother building these new office buildings that are going up in and around Aberdeen.
‘There’s not enough rigs lads, WE’RE FUCKED!’
@Stew. No they didn’t mention that at all, now they’re saying the Netherlands struck gas in the 70’s, they didn’t know how to handle the windfall, and ended up in a terrible state.
No surprise then that they’re trying to compare the Netherlands gas, windfall failure, with Scotland and what may happen if we take control of this wonderful asset.
I don’t think I’ll ever forgive the BBC, for their unashamed bias.
Well nearer my seventies than my sixties now but the vote is YES. Always was and always will be. Funny that people have never cottoned onto the fact that we have separate NHS services, the trouble as I see it is that we will not have if we vote NO. That will be another Union dividend so maybe telling Gran/Granddad that might be worth while.
@ Les Wilson: I think you have picked up the wrong end of the stick. Heedtracker was quoting, with despair, somebody called Colin’s comment on Alex Salmond.
Will Pudmire
I was commenting on the cross-border health situation only, but Major Bloodnok and Calgacus MacAndrews have given you the chance to back up your assertions.
Let’s hear from you.
handclapping says:
25 February, 2014 at 2:40 pm
This is where the Yes paper could be important. If the next one was less AS+NS and more Dennis C and the other Labour stalwarts (retired) going on how indy means better pensions, safer NHS and not losing free care with a bit about how new childcare would be good for the grandchildren and we shouldn’t stand in the way of what the youngsters want for their futures as our futures are not going to be as long as theirs, (pause for breath) that would influence a lot of that older generation who still respect what’s written in a newspaper.
I agree – everyone knows AS and NS are involved, so why keep highlighting them ad nauseum (it actually turns a few old folk off)? Senior, well-kent Labour faces supporting independence should now be now brought to the fore.
Re Lamont bingo this evening:
‘Frippery’; ‘Grosseries’; ‘Back in the real world’; ‘Scotland versus Salmond’; ‘Ah’m a mother’; – and of course – ‘shhheppratishtsh’
From that same press release:
Scottish Conservative MSP Mary Scanlon says:
“… this [cross-border health care] would all be jeapordised by a yes vote.”
Really? Could you tell us all, one and sundry, how this would be “jeapordised”?
“No doubt the SNP will roll out their usual scaremongering rebuttal…”
The SNP may well indeed offer an accusation of your press release as being no more than scaremongering. However, there are many in the Scottish electorate who are not SNP members who will also accuse you of scaremongering and, indeed, of being economical with the truth, shall we say.
“… but the people of Scotland are increasingly through that bluster.”
Sorry? Do you mean ‘increasingly seeing through’? Whatever, actually it is the likes of this press release and the misinformation and lies that you and your comrades (‘comrades’ is okay to use now, isn’t it, since you are now the ‘workers’ party) are producing on a daily basis in your vile propaganda campaign that is attempting to corrupt the referendum vote to your favour which the people of Scotland are ‘increasingly seeing through’.
“… it would be very foolish to threaten that arrangement.”
“threaten”…? No-one in the Yes Scotland campaign is threatening anything. It is you and your Better Together cohorts that are issuing all kinds of threats to Scotland and its people should they have the audacity to even think about independence. This press release is, in itself, a threat. Such rank hypocricy.
“… the Scottish Government’s independence-at-any-cost approach pays no regard to patient care whatsoever.”
A disgusting smear – and a lie, of course. You are well aware that it is Westminster, AKA Better Together, who are overtly and covertly (allegedly) following the mantra of stop-Scotland’s-independence-at-any-cost. More hypocricy.
“The UK NHS benefits patients north and south of the border in so many ways.”
Scotland’s NHS is different from that of England and Wales. It is not ‘the UK’s’. But, yes, undoubtedly patients on both sides of the border are content with what is supplied by both countries’ health services. And will continue to do so after Scotland becomes independent.
Sorry for the length of this post, folks. A bit of a rant. But I’m just disgusted at what these Bitter Together-ists will say in their efforts to frighten the Scottish people into a ‘No’ vote that would be a disaster for Scotland. They are truly despicable. Shame on them.
Alex Massie’s latest column, in which even here the penny seems to have dropped, that its Scotlands oil, Westminster have squandered it since the 70’s, and only Scotland and Iraq, don’t have an oil fund.
Massie starts with,English history, and, “Every time the English thought they had solved the Irish question,the Irish changed the question.”
http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/alex-massie/2014/02/the-etonian-the-snp-and-the-black-black-oil/
O.T. Re the BBC spreading more doom that the oil industry only drilled 15 exploration wells last year, minght be the case , I don’t know , however does anybody know how many production wells were drilled, and would the fact that the rigs were tied up drilling production wells have an effect on the number of exploration wells? and does anybody know if the amount of exploration wells were affected by Westminster changing the playing field re tax again?
Wee Willie Rennie saying the SNP have spent the north sea oil revenue several times over. Also Alistair Carmichael says, “An oil fund is just a lot of hot air talk.”
http://www.eveningexpress.co.uk/news/scotland/rivals-keep-up-oil-money-debate-1.240390
@Ian Brotherhood
“… if you vote Yes I’ll shag yer maw.”
Brilliant! ROFLMAO!
@Andy-B
Alistair Carmichael? “… just a lot of hot air talk.”?
There’s a joke there. There really, really is.
@Lidsay for No says, ” Osborne is a genius; he just killed ‘independence’ forever ”
Careful – these words have been said before by one Baron Nogo Mcbobo Robertson Proudscot of Festern Werries.
He was proved wrong too!
Clearly the claim of no Scots access to English healthcare is rubbish, reciprocal agreements exist with many countries today and there would be one between Scotland and England. Why do politicians waste everyone’s time with such drivel?
Tories Stories (Lies) : This is what they get away with since no Electoral commision involvement
For fucks sake – when I went out this morning our Oil was to big a burden to deal with ourselves and by the time I’ve come in tonight there’s fuck all left – Please help Mr Cameron Sir – spare a bob
@ Southerner – because they can (no electoral commission scrutiny)
@Lindsay says:
Somehow I don’t think anyone working in finance will go anywhere near voting “Yes”.
I know people who work in finance in Edinburgh who are going to vote YES so that the link with the reckless and toxic City of London (that has damaged their industry and their reputations) is broken.
They think therefore that independence will be better for their long-term career prospects.
It’s too hard to drill for Oil in the North Sea – That’s why they’re drilling in Antartica – much better climate 🙂
A lot of confusion could have been averted if the Scottish Government had begun using the words Scottish Health Service back in 2007 instead of continuing with that bollocks of calling it NHS Scotland.
It’s not too late however, and from now on Alex Neil et al should only refer to the Scottish Health Service, and correct anyone who calls it the National Health Service.
P/T See that an independence rally has been organised for Aug 16th in Dunfermline….
http://www.yesdunfermline.com/press-release-oranje/
@Andy-B
I don’t think I’ll ever forgive the BBC, for their unashamed bias.
Many on both sides will have that sentiment as the Beeb is conning one side and denigrating the other. Pacific Quay will be turned int a warehouse for the rest of the junk no longer required in a democratic Scotland.
Best not to read this one unless you have a sense of humour (London based press like humour)
http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/25/outraged-tunbridge-wells/
@ Luigi and Handclapping.
I’m with you there. Show what a broad church the Yes campaign is in the next issue. Some input from Business Scotland, Labour for independence, Women for independence, farmers for independence etc.
@mutley79
Sorry, can’t seem to read that Bateman article, it’s my IQ you see…
Would you like to read what a poster on the Telegraph thinks about the Scottish people? Warning! It may well raise your anger levels to uncontrolable levels!
It is taken from Derek Bateman’s latest article , “Outraged, Turnbridge Wells”.
“The greatest threat to the future success of an independent Scotland has nothing to do with oil, nor business’s exodus, nor Scotland’s other physical resources, which are indeed enviable. The greatest threat to Scotland’s success is the intellectual paucity of Scotland’s human capital. It is not widely appreciated that as a consequence of so many intelligent Scots having, since the Union of the Crowns, left Scotland to make their lives elsewhere, the residual population presently has the lowest average IQ in Europe outside of the ‘Boratland’ countries of the former Soviet bloc and France. The Scottish average IQ of 97 is well below the England and Wales average of 100.5 and about level with the IQ of citizens of the Republic of Ireland; not a very high bar to jump. As one would expect, London and the south-east of England scored top in the UK, with an average IQ of 102. Scotland – when differentiated from the rest of the UK – comes two-thirds down the table of European average intelligence, beating Russia by only one percentage point, but France by three. I’m not at all sure that anything can be done about this as the trend looks set to accelerate in a post-Independence Day Scotland, which is a sad thing indeed.”
You can go to the article and read Bateman’s musings on the likes of the above, and representatives of Her Majesty’s Government who are, to say the least, not working in Scotland’s interests at the following:
http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com
@gordoz
You beat me to it re Bateman’s blog… and you got the correct URL!
That Telegraph post is a shocker though, no doubt about that. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t even a troller’s attempt, more’s the disgust!
By the way, I thought it was us cybernats who were/are the “hate-merchants”? Tsk! It’s just so confusing this independence debate thingy sometimes…!
The ‘Outraged Tunbridge Wells’ poster to be fair managed to offend pretty much the whole of Europe with that little gem. I guess thats one of yhe benefits of having a high IQ 🙂
I suppose if IQ stands for Insidious Quisling then the author has a point, there are a good few of thosee decking the halls of Westmeinster from this neck o the widz.
So funny it’s sad.
Don’t write the oldies off yet!
I’m 62 and will be voting Yes and would have done throughout my life. Don’t forget that in 1974 the SNP got 30% of the vote. How old are those voters now? Back then the grey vote was very much a Tory vote so SNP voters tended to be younger. Most of those people are now in their 60s, 70s and 80s and will be very much open to a Yes vote. We lived through lies and cons of 1979 and we’re not stupid.
My first post. I have been puzzled for some time about the polls showing over-65s voting no. All of them will remember the dire times in this country in the 70s and 80s so imo it does not follow through with voting intention. There are a lot of over 65s on YES Facebook page all in favour and informed.
“Outraged, Turnbridge Wells”.
Must of been watching the opposition in Holyrood.
Reminds me of that joke. Why do men die before their wives. Because they want to. I wonder if you can say the same about Scots in the union….
On the topic of Drilling and exploration rigs
Its a bit rich for Douglas Fraser to come out with the ‘there isn’t much drilling for oil’ routine
If memory serves me right drilling and exploration was reduced due to Osborne taking the piss out of the oil companies.
These days lead times have to take into consideration rig availability, they simply are not lined up like taxi’s on a rank!
Down time costs a lot, so oil companies have to have rigs working all the time. As exploration goes west, rigs have to been found that can cope with weather and depths
Anyway here is a publication of current and future exploration which you might enjoy https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/238900/DECC_pathfinder_2013_website_version.pdf
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU50JFlcTEY#t=51
http://positivescotland.com/page7.htm
If you need cheering up.
@ alexicon
I failed to make it clear I was referring only to myself and friends; I’m fully aware of the amount of work to be done among the less convinced grey population 😉
@ Les Wilson heedtracker says “Salmond could not resist a jab at Cameron’s background, namely his time at Eton.” Am not complaining, its my point then torygraph vote no reader goes off on a long abusive thing at for Salmond and all YES voters or UKOK hypocrisy and abuse, y’see.
I must agree with posters who suggest that the next YES newspaper should emphasise the Labour stalwarts who support independence.
The biggest pool of potential Yes voters are in the housing estates which have been sadly neglected over the years by their Labour representatives. Many of these voters are older and with little access to on line information, like WOS.
A front page feature on Dennis Canavan and his like will convert many waverers. There are those who (surprisingly) don’t particularly like the emphasis on AS and NS. I know, having just finished delivering over 2000 newsletters around Edinburgh.
@Dal Riata
I’ve been laughing over that comment all day, especially since the author can’t quite work out whether he hates the French or Irish or Russians more than the Scots….
Apart from the fact that every ‘average IQ’ site I’ve looked at seems to have different rankings, (making you wonder about the accuracy of the sources), most of them seem to have the US and Canada right down there with us at 97/98. I suppose it must be because all those Scottish emigrants have lowered their average IQ – sorry guys!
Rev, I suggest you deconstruct the Reporting Scotland feature on the NHS ‘under intolerable pressure’ as they put it – it begins with threatening that we will fall behind the English NHS, but when it gets into detail it finds that not only are we in better shape, but indeed the NHS down south are copying the Scottish approach to ward management.
A blatant case of the report completely at odds with the headline. Unbelievable bias.
Ok, I’ll admit it. I’m over 70 I’ve got gray hair and and it seems that you think, Oi loiks bangin two bricks togevur. I’ll still be a yes voter and will remain so ’til the day I die. So get that right up your Telegraph and stick a thistle on the end.
No currency union.
No lender of last resort.
No large bank HQs.
Fecked fund management, insurance, accountancy and corporate law.
The responses to this have been curious and illuminating. Nobody has attempted to seriously refute the point. The best we’ve had is “We don’t like big banks anyway” and “We’ll grow some new wee banks.”
Face it: the entire banking, insurance, accountancy, law, and fund management professions of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and elsewhere are going to be voting NO by a factor of around 9 to 1. Plus their families, mates and dependents. Otherwise they are committing career suicide.
“Independence” is dead, you lot know it and so do the SNP.
“The greatest threat to the future success of an independent Scotland has nothing to do with oil, nor business’s exodus, nor Scotland’s other physical resources, which are indeed enviable. The greatest threat to Scotland’s success is the intellectual paucity of Scotland’s human capital. It is not widely appreciated that as a consequence of so many intelligent Scots having, since the Union of the Crowns, left Scotland to make their lives elsewhere, the residual population presently has the lowest average IQ in Europe outside of the ‘Boratland’ countries of the former Soviet bloc and France. The Scottish average IQ of 97 is well below the England and Wales average of 100.5 and about level with the IQ of citizens of the Republic of Ireland; not a very high bar to jump. As one would expect, London and the south-east of England scored top in the UK, with an average IQ of 102. Scotland – when differentiated from the rest of the UK – comes two-thirds down the table of European average intelligence, beating Russia by only one percentage point, but France by three. I’m not at all sure that anything can be done about this as the trend looks set to accelerate in a post-Independence Day Scotland, which is a sad thing indeed.”
ROFL, so this mighty IQ advantage of 3.5 (5 in London & the South-East) is why Scotland’s finances are in the black and the rUK have run up a debt of $1.3 trillion then? And we all know, of course, how terribly France, Russia and the Republic of Ireland are doing in comparison to good old UK. Gotta love it.
Free at 63! says:
“My first post.”
Welcome to Wings Free at 63. Like you I’m not convinced that a majority of the over 65’s will vote No.
Many of them will have been damaged by Westminster policies. Many will have lost jobs through Thatcher’s decimation of industry. Many will have had their pensions wrecked by Gordon Brown.
Many will be considering the future of their children and their grandchildren. I suspect we are constantly being told they will vote against independence is just part of the establishment’s attempt to brainwash people into believing they SHOULD vote No.
Only those who make no attempt to find out the facts could ever consider a No vote. We will all be working to make sure they do know the facts before September. We will win.
Lindsay
The words “Osborne is a genius” and “Lindsay it is time for your Bob Martin pills” are very closely linked.
You need to lie down.
Anyone wanting to keep up to date with the O&G industry could do worse than read Rigzone:
http://www.rigzone.com/news/most_popular.asp?pt=views&lxd=7
It’s quite true that explorers have had a tough time over the past couple of years – a lot of disappointment or marginal discoveries. Much of the focus in the North sea is therefore concentrated in extracting the maximum from known reservoirs – itself an expensive job. This explains why investment in the NS is high, but number of exploratory wells drilled is low.
But lead times are very long before you make the major decision to drill. Here’s a look at the activity West of Shetland of Faroe Petroleum – a fairly typical small Exploration & Production outfit:
http://www.fp.fo/Default.aspx?pageid=971
Any small E&P company has to spread its risk as far as it can. It needs to buy into producing fields to keep itself solvent and give it cash flow. Then it has to bring in partners to share the costs of any new wells with, assess the prospect of discovery, work out how it’s going to get the stuff ashore economically, etc. etc.
Politicians seeking easy doom and gloom quotes can easily find them in almost any year you care to name. But oil companies look 5-10 years down the line and operate to a totally different timescale. What they want is a stable tax environment above all else. The presence of a state-owned oil co, such as Norway’s Statol, which they may persuade to take a stake, also helps.
@Lindsay
C’mon, you can do better than that mate. We’re not even riled.
Lindsay, if Osborne is a genius that would make my goldfish Albert Einstein!
Nobody has attempted to seriously refute the point.
Lindsay, you said Osborne is a genius thus rendering your intellectual credibility to the knacker yard.
What you said what was overblown Better Together posturing of the usual too wee too poor ilk. The vast majority working in banks, accountancy firms and financial advisers/fund managers serve Scottish customers. A branch in Dingwall is not going to move to Milton Keynes. Regardless of what happens there will still be fund managers and mortgage advisers and there will still be pension firms.
For a relatively small number of international brokers the retention of offices will depend on the business environment and the relative costs. If demented doom mongers such as yourself are right then Scotland would be competitive because we would have a weak currency but will have the people with the education and skills. That will be very attractive. A more difficult scenario would be a strong currency but that will generate other opportunities.
The big problem with Better Together is the utter fixation of a can’t do mentality. People devoid of inspiration, ability and vision. Nothing is possible other than the status quo (and that is a grim joyless struggle). Change is inevitable we are always told. Well you better believe it.
I don’t care if there is a currency union or not. It is a convenient windmill for Better Together to tilt at but I have no attachment to it.
@ Lindsay
“the entire banking, insurance, accountancy, law, and fund management professions of Edinburgh, Glasgow, Dundee and elsewhere are going to be voting NO by a factor of around 9 to 1”
Presumably you have the evidence to back up this statement?
Oh yes LINDA – George is a “genius” all right and I’m sure he’s so grateful to all the “clever” people like you who vote to keep him in power and wealth eh?
He does have a fine taste in hookers white powders as well eh? http://images.dangerousminds.net/uploads/afiles/cokescandalgeorgeosbournce.jpg
Oh yes – a genius all right eh what!
All Glasgow trauma center,s are fully staffed tonight,could they no take a night aff the nite of all nights, ah well the unlucky wans get to deal with JoLO. lol
@Lindsay
Total bollocks. I worked in the insurance industry for forty years, ending up in a fairly high position and I’ll be voting Yes and would have done when I was working. Just because you’re blinkered by your prejudices doesn’t mean that everyone else is. It’s not inconceivable that an independent Scotland could present a more favourable business environment.
The Baw Bag Corporation output is blatant state propaganda. Why am I paying for this? There is no doubt whatsoever that if there is a narrow no vote in September it will be in no short measure down to totally biased reporting from our supposed unbiased national broadcaster. So much for the impartiality of the BBC.
O/T Although I’d say Bella won the debate last night with Fiona Hyslop on BBC 2, I also think that FH was given a harder time of it overall. Several times she was asked to give yes/no answers which politicians never like.
OTH AG was asked:
“Do you agree with Denis Healy that WM underplayed the potential value of oil in order to dampen down support for independence”.
AG – “I don’t think I’d agree with that..blah blah… Labour government..blah blah…..My impression is that oil was a new technology and a new industry and nobody knew how it was going to play out”
WHAT!!! How did she get away with that answer without being challenged.
Hey Lindsay! What exactly do you think Scotland’s financial industries need to serve their customers? I work for one and here’s a hint: it’s not a central bank.
Lindsay
Just give us your evidence that confirms that financial services employees will vote in these proportions. We are a bit sceptical about troll quotes.
As a grandmother of two,I have been informing the younger generation for years, about Unionist lies, particularly as someone who worked in the NHS. Our health service is not perfect, but is improving, unlike south of the border with rampant privatisation extending its tentacles to every area. So please, don’t teach my grandchildren’ s granny to suck eggs!
I intend to contact my local Tory to enquire what will happen if my elderly mother takes ill when visiting from Scotland should there be a yes vote. Will she just be refused treatment, will she need some form of insurance, will she be left by the side of the road if there is an accident because someone will have picked up on her accent. (What about the non Scots who vote yes will they have to carry card identifying them as ‘yes’ people?) Are they really saying she will be treated like…like…well, no one else in the world.
@Meindevon – unfortunately she will be a ‘foreigner’ and in a ‘foreign’ country but I’m sure with the goodwill and charity of the Scots she will be looked after ok.
It must be really confusing for the older ones eh i mean how old were they when Gordon Broon stole 100billion out their pension pot? its strange not one of them remember but was in all their fav papers and tv news at the time, must have been a dream, the thing is they never woke up to a pensioners paradice and they aint going to get that out oo westminster.
VIVA REPUBLIC
Lindsay…sniff, sniff…I smell shite!…jog on!
@ Lindsay
Your barking up the wrong tree if you think you can come onto the Wings site and regurgitate the usual crap which gets spouted on the torygraf-Mail-Guardian etc.
The locals, in particular the Rev., don’t take easily to folk looking for cheap shots and deflection from the facts which clear the waters and provoke discussion. Too many people here have an extensive knowledge about what the Indy history is and the current debate being held.
If you want to contribute you’re gonna have to improve your game by a long way otherwise as the Glaswegians would say – go away.
N S against Lamont ought to help you 😉
Margaret Brogan we are talking about OAPs no glesga grannies in their late 20s.
@ianbrotherhood
hilarious…nearly choked on ma tea…
i take it lindsay is the English person on the bike at the border WANKERS oh hurry they might be coming were the fuck are you hen, wheres your reply to all the comments you got, just like the unionist mps come to Scotland tell lies and run away, just another Bitter Together WHORE TROLL
What gets me is wheres the Police surley its a crime for a member of parlament to lie.Then again in my experiance the police only do what their told so i suppose they will be voting no as well oh and all their relatives NOT. fucking hell i suppose all GAY folk in Scotland will vote yes cause the Greens have a gay smp oh wait did the torys no put a leZZer in charge, The thing is we all have a brain im sure,no we will get the Goverment WE DESERVE.
@ lindsay
I was going to reply to you with facts and figures about the banks etc. but then thought why waste my time.
Well half time and so far Jlo has simply stated that she’d like to see some politcial stuff happening and that she’s not really talking tonight and we’ll all have to wait till March for answers to the hard questions.
In other words she has to wait for her bosses to tell her the answers to Noicolas questions/comments.
fairiefromtheearth says:
‘It must be really confusing for the older ones eh i mean how old were they when Gordon Broon stole 100billion out their pension pot? its strange not one of them remember but was in all their fav papers and tv news at the time, must have been a dream, the thing is they never woke up to a pensioners paradice and they aint going to get that out oo westminster’.
I recall my tory neighbour spouting vicious hatred because G Brown was raiding her savings and pensions, however, since the tories took power? Not one word…says it all really!
That performance by Lamont should really signal the end of her political career,utter car crash as expected by her.
Ponsenby reckons we didn’t learn much from that but i disagree
Oops,button malfunction!
As I was saying, what we learned was that Yes has a clear path forward, a path they have never strayed from.
The utter frustration of NO, which drives them to constantly ask and repeat questions they already know the answer to, should indicate that they know that Yes are correct in what they say and do.
The bottom line will be who people trust more.
Is it people who are constantly negative and ever more ridiculously so, or people who are positive and consistent in their message, despite the utter nonsense put to them ?
No contest.
Missed the Jolo -v- Nicola ‘debate’ – did I miss anything that might put some substance into the No campaign’s position and future policy for Scotland?
Ah, more lies. I think we’re now at the damned lies stage. I’m just wondering when they’ll break out statistics.
Barontorc; I also missed it, but I think this morning I’ve established that the answer to your question must be no… since the only quote I’ve heard directly from it is the glorious Lamont one…. ‘Scots are not genetically predisoposed to make political decisions.’
The dangers of letting Lamont fly without a script now clear to everyone; except Euan McColm, who was observed on twitter late last night claiming Lamont had won the debate.
Calgacus writes that the Union is “toxic for all sub-economies within the Union that are not the South-East corner.” Well, I have news for him – capitalism is toxic for all except capitalists! It’s not the Union that is wrecking the economy, not the Union that causes unemployment, lowers wages and increases poverty. In the South-east, London has ten of the 20 most deprived boroughs in Britain. Class determines wealth and poverty, not national affiliation. Splitting the British working class assists the capitalist class, which uses the European Parliament, the Houses of Commons and Lords and Holyrood alike.