Under the carpet
There’s a very strange article on the front page of the Herald website this morning. It’s an interview with Nigel Farage in which the UKIP leader insists that his party, not the SNP, will hold the balance of power in the UK parliament after May’s election.
It’s a bold assertion given that current projections put the SNP on anywhere from 30 to 56 seats with UKIP expected to struggle to get 5 to 10. But Farage’s rationale for the statement is an interesting one.
His claim is that the SNP winning seats from Labour won’t matter, because either way those are anti-Tory votes in the Commons so it doesn’t actually matter who wins them because the net outcome will be the same. That’s true so far as it goes, and indeed is a point we’ve made ourselves while debunking Labour’s continuing barefaced lie that “the party with the most seats forms the government”.
Yet for some reason Farage unaccountably fails to note that the same applies to UKIP seats. The prospects of even Labour being so desperate as to clutch at a pact with UKIP are surely zero, and it seems overwhelmingly likely that the majority of any UKIP gains will be from the coalition parties.
It’s by no means inconceivable that it could take seats from Labour – last October it came within just 617 votes of capturing Haywood from Ed Miliband’s party – but for there to be more than one or two such instances seems well beyond the bounds of plausibility, and in the event that UKIP was doing well enough to win Labour seats it would surely only be offsetting the damage it did to the Tories.
Parliamentary arithmetic would have to be on an absolute knife-edge for UKIP’s votes to count for anything against Labour, and even then Miliband would almost certainly need the SNP’s support far more.
But there are much weirder claims in the article than that.
We’re not sure which “nation” stretches from Birmingham to Hadrian’s Wall. Despite UKIP scraping a Scottish MEP in last year’s European elections, where the party is traditionally strongest, it’s never even held a deposit in Scotland at a UK or Scottish election. But the idea that Farage’s outfit is “the only truly national party of the UK” is somewhat undermined by its latest election leaflet.
Farage is depicted on it sweeping away “the failed political class” in the form of Cameron, Clegg and Miliband, along with a series of papers seemingly documenting their failure. The bedroom tax, Ukraine, the child-abuse scandal in Rotherham, the chaos in the Middle East and more are all deemed to be bad things in need of Farage’s cleansing broom. So what’s “Scotland” doing on there?
UKIP was against Scottish independence, so one would have to assume that it regarded the No vote as a success for the establishment parties. All the cartoon can therefore mean is that UKIP don’t want the incoming Parliament to waste any more of its time pandering to the damn whining Jocks.
It’s a funny way to tell Scotland that we’re all party of one happy British family, but we suspect it’s a view that’ll be shared by a very large number of the MPs elected in England in three months’ time, no matter what party they’re from. It would take a very deaf ear indeed not to have noticed such a sentiment being repeatedly aired from every side of the Commons since September.
Scottish voters can clearly expect no favours from any MPs subject to a UK party whip. Its only chance of having a voice in Parliament in the next five years is to send MPs to London who answer only to Scotland.
Farage and his compadres, unfortunately, cannot be written off. They are appealing to the disenfranchised voters in the south.
“Mr Farage. known to enjoy a pint and a cigarette” Really? Next they’ll be telling us Jim Murphy likes Irn Bru and the fitbaw.
It’ll be interesting to see where ‘St George draping, white van man’ places his X in May.
There’s such a plethora of right wing parties to choose from ranging from UKIP all the way up to the extreme of New Labour
Scots can vote for;
1. Austerity Junkies – Labour, Tories or the Lib Dems
2. Fruitcakes, Loonies and Closet Racists – UKIP
or,
3. Scotland – SNP, SSP or the Scottish Greens.
“The prospects of even Labour being so desperate as to clutch at a pact with UKIP are surely zero”
Hmmmmm?
Excellent dissection of Farage’s ramblings Rev.
But are these papers worth your efforts? We all know them to be biased rags on deathrow…
@ Achnababan
It’s Stu’s mission to expose the lies in the MSM and a great job he does on it.
Glad to see UKIP sweeping us under the carpet. Kate Devlin and Co has a fellow traveller in Nigel Farage.
They did well in Scotland last year with Jabba the Hut but it was all down to the BBC and they’re anti independence 2014 campaigning. You had to have to heard the sheer relief in say Jim Naughty’s BBC R4 voice EU election night coverage to realise just how hard they had all worked to get a UKIP bloater into Scotland.
https://twitter.com/davidcoburnukip
Check the kilt. What on earth is the BBC playing at.
“… national party of the UK”. The UK is not a nation, and cannot have a national party. It’s a collection of three nations and a province (a bit of a nation). The UK is country of nations and countries. Scotland, England and Wales are nations and countries. Northern Irleand is an anomaly.
@Bill Steele
NI an “anomaly”
That should get the OO lot upset. No need to use bad language as per the earlier thread.
That UKIP poster immediately reminded me of O Brother, Where Art Thou? candidate for Governor (and prominent KKK man) Homer Stokes, and political prop “The Little Man” with the broom.
The question for Farage being “Is you is, or is you ain’t, my constituency?” And the answer in Scotland being “No.”
UKIP has some momentum on the back of the general public being sick to death of incompetence, deceit, and an enduring cycle of falling living standards.
They are desperate to give anything a go that offers a break in the cycle of the “Big 3” Westminster Parties, promising everything and delivering nothing other than inequality and injustice.
The hate for the establishment has out-weighed the lack of coherent policies from UKIP, and anything seems worth trying when you are desperate and backed into a corner of
with perpetual austerity cuts.
I think anyone in Scotland who saw UKIP Deputy Chair Paul Nuttall on BBC Question Time spout his racist, hate filled – Scotland just takes, takes, takes, takes – tirade, viewable on Youtube will be utterly turned off by UKIP. So the Glasgow Herald article lacks due diligence or objectivity. The polls seem to have a handle on this. UKIP 4 MPs, whilst the SNP are likely to return between 20 and 50 MPs to Westminster. Just my humble opinion.
Labour/Tory, ying/yang, ham/egg, fish n chips…All choices we have to make for ourselves.In those choices there is one which is only an illusion of choice…Got it yet?
They are owned by the same bunch of nameless powerful families that have always sqeezed the life blood out of our country.We must remain solid and true to the independence cause, as one day we will achieve it, and the sooner the better for the people of Scotland, and also the downtrodden citizens of the rest of the uk.
On Monday channel 4 are showing a fictional documentary – bit like Establishment Broadcasting Company normal output – called UKIP the first 100 days.
It remains to be seen, pun intended, whether or not this is good news for UKIP. Either way you can be sure they will make political capital out of it.
If it is cleverly enough done will people be able to tell the difference between fact and fiction? Wait a minute, there are many who have that problem already.
Mr Farage will need to think very carefully here.
Pacts aside (although secret ones are possible) there arer two options UKIP can pursue.
Option 1
Fight for every vote they can get, which will have a big effect on the Tories’ chances. The Tories stand to lose far more seats with this strategy than UKIP will gain.
Option 2
Tell current UKIP supporters to vote Tory, to ensure a Tory victory AND an EU Referendum.
If his party is to really break through at some point, and this election is NOT that point, he should seriously consider the future consequences.
Which of these two options make his key goal of an EU referendum more likely?
Which of these two options are likely to appear the more ‘grown up’ and hence consolidate UKIP support and increase it for the future?
Of course, there is the minor problem in Option 2 that it is not going to be popular with candidates, but since they have virtually no chance of winning their seat at this point in time anyway, it may not be an impossible sell.
I see UK Polling have Ukip on 9% down 2 on the latest Mori poll, so how does that square with being the king maker?
FPTP is difficult for smaller parties it was difficult for the SNP, not enough people voted in constituencies though they got a lot of votes. I see Ukip being much the same, I am not expert though.
The Evening Standard have revealed to-day that their new Britain-wide Ipsos-Mori poll puts the SNP and Plaid Cymru ahead of the Liberal Democrats for the first time ever.
Therefore I look forward to the SNP getting equal coverage on “national” BBC / ITV /SKY News and current affairs programmes. Another reason why Broadcasting should be devolved.
Farage hasn’t been doing so well recently in England & has been slipping down the news agenda. Their over the top representation on BBC QT was deliberate in that it placed them in the public eye week after week but that seems to be losing it’s appeal now.Their representatives come across as ill informed & sometimes frankly weird. It always runs through my mind ‘Would I be happy with this person representing me?’ More often than not it’s a very definite & resounding No.
I want my MP to have gravitas, intelligence, integrity, accountability, the ability to listen to voters without patronising them etc. In short, everything that UKIP does not appear to have on current showing. Perhaps I am asking the impossible but I don’t think so-if they want my vote they have to earn it & it’s as simple as that.
As they see their national press coverage reducing they have to resort to cartoons like this to remind people that they are still here but it will take a long time for people to forget their very right wing & often racist stance which tends to put good people off. That is just my view but time will tell with elections in May we will see for ourselves whether they are a potent force or just a lot of hot air.
“UKIP don’t want the incoming Parliament to waste any more of its time pandering to the damn whining Jocks.”
That is something UKIP have in common with everyone outside of the Scottish Indy Bubble!
I was about to write ‘everyone south of Hadrian’s Wall’ but realised that there are many Scottish politicians, mainly Labour, who don’t want Scots interfering in WM affairs!
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alan/scottish-labour-2015-electiohttp://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alan/scottish-labour-2015-election_b_6676212.htmln_b_6676212.html like and share ta x
Stu, he actually said those words “…the challenger in virtually every parliamentary seat from Birmingham up to Hadrian’s Wall.”, on the telly yesterday during his campaign launch speech.
It was a casual way of saying that his view of Britain stopped at the border.
We can only imagine however what status he thinks Scotland enjoys then?
Colonial outpost?
Heh, they really don’t like the thought of Scottish representation with teeth do they? 🙂
Yet I’m sure they spent an awfy amount of time telling us how much they wanted our participation, or was that just access to our resources and parking space for their toys?
You know in my lifetime I can’t think of any election where the representation we may send to Westminster has caused this much of a furore. In fact historically I can’t think of such an occurrence. Now what do you think could have all these parties and their media chums so up in arms? 😉
@G H Graham
Scotland is an occupied territory without the facade of a”League of Nations mandate”
or perhaps it is a “Protectorate” and is protected from the sweaties themselves!
Nigel Who?
What’s a UKIP
Nicola Sturgeon, now there’s a name i know!
Meetings with Angela Merkel, Christine Le guard, people like that to follow
Nigel Who?
Helena
“I see UK Polling have Ukip on 9% down 2 on the latest Mori poll, so how does that square with being the king maker?
”
Not surprised. Have often predicted UKIP supporters will vote Tory in May.
As above, Farage needs to weigh up which strategy will make it more likely for UKIP voters to come back.
I think if I were him I would have a short list of seats they will fight in (Top ten) and at some point announce that UKIP supporters elsewhere should vote Tory as a one off to get an EU referendum.
I hope he doesn’t.
Birmingham to Hadrian’s wall – they really really don’t want the Geordies do they!
Three hundred years of having it all their way Macart?
They don’t like to share do they 🙂
@GH Graham
Judging by how he keeps being treated anytime he pokes his nose north of the border I expect he thinks the wall should be resurrected to keep us barbarian hordes at bay again.
@ Macart
My post above was me thinking as an English voter but I need to add to that. I want indeed need SNP to do well in this election if only to give them a national platform so that my fellow voters can see what they are missing & how SNP knock the WM parties into a cocked hat.
I see quality, depth, a diverse range of candidates with real life experience who don’t have to resort to spouting fear, blackmail & bile at the electorate in order to get ahead but instead use facts, truth & strength of their arguments to win people over.
I want a party in England that can do the same for us but I fear that is a long way away yet. I have no doubt that what SNP says in Westminster & beyond will strike a massive chord with English voters so the more Scotland sends down the better for me & thousands like me.
You Scots don’t know how fortunate you are (present company excepted)& when I see the disgusting comments that BritNats post on Nicola Sturgeon’s twitter feed it does make me feel ashamed to be English & want to apologise for each & every one of them.
Vote SNP folks & get Scotland!
I don’t see UKIP making any gains. Reckless and Carswell may hold onto their seats, but Tory voters will return to the fold. They are happy to use UKIP as a frightener, but having used them to frighten, and got their message over, they will abandon them.
Funnily enough, I think UKIP is likeliest to have most traction amongst low-information Labour voters angry at austerity and the failure to rein in the bankers than anywhere else. They might take a seat or two in the North or the Midlands.
@K1
Apparently. 🙂
It seems that when democracy actually works, as in people having and making choices, the establishment are no too fond of the choices being made. We’re only meant to choose from the table d’hote menu, not the a la carte as it were. 😉
Robert Kerr writes, “Scotland is an occupied territory.” Even Alex Salmond doesn’t believe that. No, Scotland is part of Britain. Scottish workers are part of the British working class. Cameron wants to stay in power so that he can crush our trade unions. To stay in power, he would sacrifice the Union. And JimW on Wings says that David Cameron is the better choice!
Hadrian’s wall, eh! Let’s just move the signs on the A1 and the motorway quietly down to the natural border and see if anyone notices.
I think the SNP are missing a trick by not standing candidates in the north of England. Maybe that labour guy fighting Gordon could stand, the Northumberland nationist. I still smile when I think of hands across the border. I wonder what plans Rory the Tory dismissed as unachievable before plumping for his impossibly over – ambitious scheme. What was more impossible than getting thousands of unionists linking arms along hadrian’s great ramparts?
Perhaps he initially conceived of a vast congo linking all 4 component nations of the UK, with an enormous pontoon reaching out to Northern Ireland.
And what did they rule out as being too underwhelming before going for that wee cairn? Perhaps a wee floral verge in Gretna in the style of your typical church centenary.
rUKIP clearly a more appropriate name.
Perhaps the troll @1:40 pm would find this amusing…
https://commonspace.scot/articles/361/fraser-stewart-did-boris-johnson-just-change-the-game
@Lollysmum
We are fortunate in more than one sense in how our representation can work within the framework of Westminster, if its done right. But don’t think of Scotland/England in that sense. Think people’s representation v establishment.
Being part of a bipartite partnership in this instance, is the mechanism, the distance which will allow people to make a choice on their representation to the house of joint government. The people of England can do exactly the same thing, they aren’t bound to vote for either Labour or Conservative. There is a vacuum growing which will need filling. A place which requires truly socially progressive parties to emerge and for people to join in and engage.
If they don’t? Well Mr Farage and the UKIPs of this world will happily fill that void.
Not sure if I agree that UKIP will find it more difficult to attract Labour voters than Tory’s Rev.
The big issues that they use as their front line slogans, Immigration, Standing Up for England, chimes very well with working class people who feel they have been getting the p taken out of them by Labour, but haven’t had anyone else they could turn to.
Up ’till a few years ago, all these people could do was turn to the BNP, and a lot of them did, however they had to keep quiet about it and for a lot it was a step too far.
Ukip however, have made policies such as stopping immigration and deporting criminals etc, acceptable and hence they are enjoying quite a bit of support from working class areas that were former Labour strongholds.
You mentioned the taking of Labour seats and I have detailed the taking of Labour votes, so it remains to be seen if they can take enough votes to win seats from Labour.
I cant help thinking that as the election enters it’s last month, The Tory Party will pull a large immigration bunny out of the hat, such as tough new rules about foreign criminals being deported once they finish their sentence, and this will help them hoover up a couple % of ukip votes.
This along with the people who will drift back to the Tory’s to ensure Ed Milliband doesn’t ‘Destroy’ ‘England’ will be enough to give the Torys more seats than Labour, and at this point both the Tory’s and Labour will be scrambling around looking to make pacts with anyone who will support them.
This is when Nicola/Alex need to play their ace card and only back Milliband if he agrees to give us the devo max he signed up to.
That’s what’s at stake and why as many people as possible need to vote SNP.
30+ SNP MP’s at Westminster – 2015
Demands:
Item 1 – Devolve Broadcasting
Item 2 – Devolve Broadcasting + Remove Trident
Item 3 – Devolve Broadcasting + Remove Trident + Remove Labour Party grip on Scotland (and you can have all their Piers too Westminster / You keep them we dont want them)
Will Podmore
We voted Labour in 70,79,83,87,92,10 (and all the ones in between). Exactly how many times do you want us to slam our dicks in a door before we can stop because it hurts?
How about some bloody solidarity from your side? It seems like you are big on us doing all the donkey work with precious little to show for it. Are genuinely surprised that we are fed up and want to do our own thing?
Patrick
I would tend to agree with that. UKIP are weighing in with Rotherham big style. If they overplay that it may work against them but there is a fear of the “other” that they might tap into.
@Betty Boop: I agree, but it’s interesting and instructive to note that disenfranchised voters in Scotland tend to go for a left-of-centre party with a full manifesto. Those in England seem to go a for a bunch of right-wing zealots. I think that tells us a lot!
Does Labour have any embarrassmnent or shame? Even the Milllipede bros have fiddled an inheritance to avoid taxes.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-24269/Labour-new-property-embarrassment.html
Brian McNeill, Huffington Post, excellent, thank you so much for posting it.
Tam Jardine, you want to look at the pages of the Scottish Statesman with regard to Christine Grahame suggesting she could stand for Berwick, had a real ding dong along with many others with a certain Mr Alan England of the English Democrats. Wow, that man was really het up about that, these Jocks telling us what to do, he did not like Scots MP’s who did the chicken run either.
Nicola’s speech to the UCL was superb. A few more like that in England and English people will see that the SNP is not a threat to them at all but an ally in making the UK a better place for all.
Aye Macart, I’d prefer to chuck their menu’s oot and start wi fresh home grown ingredients. We’ll create our own menu, then we’ll invite them roond to sample our delights. Time they learned to the lesson; There are alternatives. 🙂
Nice to see Donald Anderson recycling the Daily Mail’s lies about Ed Miliband.
GrizzleMcPuss, I don’t find Boris Johnson remotely amusing. He is, regrettably, Mayor in our capital city, and is always busy sucking up to the criminal flyboys in the City and to foreign banksters seeking asylum in Mayfair palaces, while evicting Londoners from their homes.
Doug nail on head, so to speak. More proof that politically and culturally, Scotland and UK/England, are two very different nations.
If you think about it maybe 35% of England are Tories -Right Wing. Another 12% UKIP – extreme right wing. Labour in England are virtually red Tories and will get about 35% of the vote at least. With those kind of stats it’s clear 50-60% of the English are right wing.
Up here about 45% will go SNP – Left wing. Green – 5% left wing. Forget Scottish Labour there is no such thing. But the reasons people vote for them up here, are misguided left wingers about 20%. The other Slab voters are just as right wing as the Tories 8%. Combine the left wing vote and it’s easily 60-65%.
So we can say that Scotland is a left leaning country and England a right leaning country. Why are we still in this union of opposites?
I’ve just read Fraser Stewart’s disgusting puff for the extreme reactionary Boris Johnson. So Johnson is for federalism, now – if that doesn’t prove that federalism is a reactionary proposal, what would? “Unite and liberate” trumps “divide and rule”.
UKIP’s deputy Nutalls’ rant on QT a few weeks ago summed up his partys’ attitude to Scotland.
It is fair to say that this view is shared by many in the three Tory parties but he at least was honest (if not racist) enough to say it in public.
If ever we needed the SNP it is now
I’ve been looking for Alan McGee’s email to thank him for the article (I won’t ‘sign up’ through social media). His work is refreshingly direct and the National should sign him up. I’m sure he reads Wings so thanks Alan.
This man is a complete idiot. But people clap for him?
Watch this and be shocked by UKIPs views of Scotland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVZOVU3Cuk0#t=70
From this clip it seems they think the same as us on Millibland. Unfortunately there’s no English version of SNP.
True, although we will find the polls narrowing as opinion naturally polarises prior to the actual vote. Additionally the amount registered will shrink massively. 16 and 17 year olds not allowed to vote. New voter registration will see many put off the voter’s roll without their being aware and the undue fear of old poll tax debts or even recent council tax will put off many as local authorities will use it to their advantage. Add to this the disappointment, even heartbreak felt at the referendum and distrust felt by many of Westminster and the turnout could be very low, perhaps near Euro Election level. The battle will be to get folk registered AND out to vote. If turnout is good then not only are Labour seats in danger but LibDem & Tory too. UKIP will have to fight extremely hard in the Midland and North of England. With a high population of Asian background voters UKIP won’t be able to overcome Labour due to their undercurrent of racism. I see their vote fading and their appeal narrowing. SNP has the very slight advantage now that the BBC are actually mentioning them without being overly dismissive, helping offset the usual reversion to Labour at GEs. Events in Greece, Syria, Iraq, Ukraine etc mean this will be one of the most important GEs since the second world war.
@ wingman 2020
Self flagellation.
Says it all.
@ Wingman 2020
One seriously sick puppy.
Wow Big thumbs up for you Rev.
I wondered where these buggers had gone.
Labour and UKIP . coalition ???? i think labour would jump into bed with anyone now. They are a laughing stock in Scotland and labour need to pander to the ” Middle England ” vote. you just never know. They will hate it when we send down 40 plus SNP mp’s.
Whoever said politics was boring. 🙂 I’m loving this.
And it’s free. 🙂
@Bill Steele says:13 February, 2015 at 12:32 pm:
… The UK is country of nations and countries. Scotland, England and Wales are nations and countries. Northern Irleand is an anomaly.”
Nope! Bill, The UK is not a country and it never has been a country. It is exactly as its name describes it, “A United KINGDOM”. It is a United Kingdom formed from only two Kingdoms. Thus legally and actually a bipartite union formed by the, “Treaty of Union”, (1706/7), and there are only the representatives of two Kingdoms as signatories on that document,
It fact the Kingdoms of England and Scotland were the only two British Kingdoms in existence in 1603 when the Scottish King James VI of Scotland inherited the Crown of the three country Kingdom of England and both kingdom remained independent for the next 104 years until the 1706/7 that first united the two crowns as a single United Kingdom. There could be no, “Union of the Crowns”, in 1603 and that was the function of the 1706/7 Treaty of Union.
Here are the legal documents that prove the facts. “The Statute of Rhuddlan”, (1284), saw the Kingdom of England annex the Principality of Wales. To this day the monarchy of England’s first born son becomes the Prince of Wales. Wales remains, “A Principality of the Kingdom of England”.
“The Crown of Ireland Act, (1542), saw the Parliament of Ireland cede the Crown of Ireland to the Kingdom of England whose Monarch had previously claimed to be Lord of Ireland. Thus England annexed the Kingdom of Ireland.
Then, in 1688, The, (still independent), English Parliament had their, “Glorious Revolution”, in which they deposed their Monarch, King James II of England and imported the foreign joint Monarchy of King Billy & Mary of Orange as The Kingdom of England’s monarchy but removed from them the Royal Veto over the English Parliament. This made the three country Kingdom of England into the, “Constitutional Monarchy”, it still legally is today. This, though, could not affect the Kingdom of Scotland as the Kingdoms were still both independent.
This was the beginning of what England wrongly still terms the, “Jacobite Rebellion”, but the Scots could not rebel against a King who was not their monarch. So began the Jacobite uprisings that ran from 1688 until 39 years later and long after the 1706/7 Treaty of Union had been signed. It was, in fact, the main reason for England’s underhanded and threatening manner of forcing Scotland into Union.
So, Bill, Unless you can dispute, and prove with real evidence, the facts above then The United Kingdom is not a country and the partner Kingdoms are Scotland and England only and thus if the two parts the United Kingdom ends by disuniting.
As for the case of Ireland it remains legally a single country. However, as a republic cannot, by definition, be part of a kingdom the country has two independent legislatures. The remaining part of the Kingdom of England is a Province of the English Kingdom having been annexed in 1542. The 1800/1 Act did no more than acknowledge that Northern Ireland had chosen to remain with the United Kingdom rather than opting for joining the Republic. There was no new kingdom created in 1800/1.
So, can you prove me wrong, Bill?
@Muscleguy says:13 February, 2015 at 1:31 pm:
” … I expect he thinks the wall should be resurrected to keep us barbarian hordes at bay again.”
It is so surprising how many Englanders are so keen to gift Scotland such a chunk of England as that between Hadrian’s wall and the actual border.
Mind you it is also surprising how so many, on both sides of the border, accept the rather daft teaching of the Establishment versions of history. The premise that the mighty Roman Empire were so frightened of a bunch of disunited tribes of savages that, being different tribes, probably spent their time fighting each other is ludicrous.
The fact is that the Romans came to Britain for the rich minerals of Britain but another couple of known facts about the Romans was the took slaves and their entire Empire worked as a custom and excise area. They taxed both imports and exports and they set up seaside ports for that purpose. They also taxed the natives as the Jesus story tells the World.
There are experts who claim Hadrian’s wall guard posts face South and the purpose of the wall was as defence against smuggling. Just why would a bunch of disparate tribes with oodles of open territory be attempting to get together to take over Roman Britain? Who would benefit from that? Not the Pictish Tribes and not the South Briton’s under Roman Rule. Nor also the Romans.
@Will Podmore says: 13 February, 2015 at 1:40 pm:
“… No, Scotland is part of Britain.”
Indeed it is part of Britain, Will, and it will still be part of Britain after the bipartite “United Kingdom”, returns to the legal Status Quo Ante of two independent Kingdoms.
“Scottish workers are part of the British working class”.
Of course they are, Will, they are after all residents of the British Isles that will still be part of the Britain Isles after the bipartite United Kingdom disunites.
” Cameron wants to stay in power so that he can crush our trade unions.
Which, “Our”, do you mean, Will? It cannot be British as Cameron only leads the United Kingdom part of Britain at the moment.
“… And JimW on Wings says that David Cameron is the better choice!
Aye! Will but my uncle Louis says that Nicola Sturgeon is the better choice and both Uncle Louis and JimW are as entitled to their opinion as I am, (or indeed as you are).
“federalism is a reactionary proposal”
is that a generalisation or a specific comment with regard to a federal British Isles?
just curious…
O/T Received a letter from the Electoral Registration Officer this morning. It was to inform me who was registered to vote at my address and to ask if the information was correct.
All should look out for such letters and check that everyone who is entitled to vote is registered in good time for the General Election.
http://www.gov.uk/register-to-vote
@Robert Peffers
Does Mr Farage know that the wall was built by foreigners?
Coming over here taking our jobs eh!
@Legerwood says:13 February, 2015 at 8:57 pm:
“Does Mr Farage know that the wall was built by foreigners? Coming over here taking our jobs eh!
Nah! For a starter they weren’t taking our jobs as it was South British Jobs they took.
;-))
People wrongly think the wall was built by slaves. It was actually built by Roman Legionaries. These were, though not actually Romans but men from all over the Roman Empire who had voluntarily joined the Roman army. It was probably a sort of form of exercise to keep them fit and out of mischief in what was then a very lonely outpost at the farthest edge of the known world.
The Roman Army included in its ranks many highly skilled architects, mason builders, surveyors and carpenters as well as soldiers. The wall was a great chance to express their talents and be part of what they probably felt was the greatest civilising effort at that time in history.
Just like today I’m sure local people might also have willingly helped for they would undoubtedly have benefited from a trade in goods and many services.
I’ll tell you a strange thing I discovered by chatting with a group of archaeologists I happened to come across, not at Hadrian’s wall but at the Gask Road. This runs along the Gask Ridge and was the very first defensive wall in the Roman Empire. It eventually became part of the Antoine wall across Scotland.
While Hadrian’s wall had such things as Cemeteries for Legionaries and such things as what were, more or less brothels, and such like. Not a single cemetery has been found along the entire Gask Ridge. This suggests that, unlike Hadrian’s wall, there was no permanent garrison. They either had a system of marching in a changing guard or had periods of no occupation so far north.
There are more myths about our early history than in The Grimms Brother’s Fairy Tales and our own Education System are those who spread these myths. Most modern kids know more about USA history than Scottish, or even British, history. Believe me a decent grounding in history explains a great deal about our modern country and the United Kingdom.
@helena brown
Thank you so much for the nod in the direction of that letter and subsequent response. People please have a read at this it goes so far down the crazy rabbit hole it beggars belief.
http://scottishstatesman.com/letter-to-the-editor-berwick-upon-tweed/
Just seen a friends letter from Ruth Davidson.
She advises that Scots have voted to stay in the UK and would you believe it,the nasty SNP are now campaigning to send MPs to Westminster and vote on English matters?
She ends her letter with a note on how Tories want to unite the
the country?
In summary we begged, lied, and scare mongered the Scots to stay
in the UK, but don’t you dare vote on anything to has ton do with running the UK???? Let’s all be united-ish.
Robert Peffers says:
13 February, 2015 at 8:07 pm
@Muscleguy says:13 February, 2015 at 1:31 pmMind you it is also surprising how so many, on both sides of the border, accept the rather daft teaching of the Establishment versions of history.
Robert, I said this in another thread. Scottish history was not taught in my school when I was at school. We had to learn the history that was on the curriculum. It is little wonder that many people north of the border don’t know their own history. On top of that you get the “History of Scotland” books being published by English organisations that give the English Establishment version and pass it off as fact. The Jacobite rebellion was glossed over as attempt by the Old/Young “Pretender” trying to carve a bit of power for himself against the “rightful” English King. It was just as much a religious war as it was about who the rightful king was. If the clans hadn’t followed Charlie, Scotland would be a far different place today. I think today, they would have told him outright that we don’t need another greedy grabbing monarch trying to control us. The same people would have backed the establishment today as did then, we saw that at indyref. People still believe the Establishment lies. Hopefully, enough will have seen through the lies in time for May and kick the Establishment and their political lackeys out of Scotland.
Gary wrote, “Unfortunately there’s no English version of SNP.” Yes, there is – there’s a bourgeois nationalist English party called UKIP.
The Act of Union created a new union, a new single political and economic entity, a new country. Together, the working class of Britain have over the centuries built this country of Britain.