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Wings Over Scotland


Time to go

Posted on February 28, 2017 by

The Wings Over Scotland Fundraiser 2017:

timetogo3b

Please give generously, or we’re all screwed.

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  1. 28 02 17 09:56

    Time to go | speymouth

486 to “Time to go”

  1. Ian McCubbin says:

    I have been saying the same a while now. Even asked what it will take for UNI at North Perthshire SNP constituency association. To of party only have one route via a referendum even though repute FM said he would like us to be independent yesterday.
    The only other way is to keep acting as if we are and open foreign consulates in 10 key countries.
    BTW London would have a consolate as already has Caledonia House.

  2. David Smith says:

    I had the ‘Da-dum, da-dum-da-dum’ bit from The Terminator theme in my head reading that.

  3. robin says:

    £1920 in 12 minutes
    you are worth it Stu; an inspiration to us all

  4. scotspine says:

    Any way by paying using paypal? Dont have a credit card.

  5. mogabee says:

    Definitely need to get out of here…paid my subscription! 😀

  6. A2 says:

    “Shipping country cannot be blank or is invalid”… sigh! uk it is then 🙁

  7. Bob MACK says:

    @Scotspine,

    Yes you can use pay pal. I pay monthly direct from PayPal. Should be a link.

    As an aside are we attributing our amount towards “gold” wing status for any of our regulars?

  8. Dorothy Devine says:

    Stu , your alternative method of payment please.

  9. Calum says:

    We need Wings Over Scotland to shine brightly.

  10. Marcia says:

    The mad History professor will the pressing F5 all day swearing as the total goes up and up.

  11. Bob MACK says:

    @Scotspine.

    Link found under DONATE at the top of this page.

  12. CmonIndy says:

    OK wait a minute need to get home for the debit card.

  13. Breastplate says:

    10% of the way there already

  14. Robert Louis says:

    Wow, already moving fast, we can do this.

    Seriously, the work of wings really is needed, especially in light of the utterly shameful attempts of Labour and their Tory chums to try to paint people such as myself who want Scotland to run its own affairs as racists.

    Many unionist and Labour lies during the referendum made me angry, but Labour’s london Mayor, Khan, telling people that people such as me are racists, really made my blood boil.

    It is clear, that Labour and their unionist Tory chums are planning to throw dirty filthy lie after lie at Scotland during the next referendum, simply because they know their is not one single good reason for Scotland’s affairs to be run from a Parliament in London, where Scottish MP’s make up only 9% of the voting total.

  15. Tam Fae Somewhere says:

    Paid my bit.

    11% there already.

  16. Graeme Doig says:

    Happy to contribute to the war chest.

  17. scotsbob says:

    BIG DISAPPOINTMENT, contributed by credit card and the drop down menu for address doesn’t have Scotland, only UK. That needs fixed for next time 🙂

  18. Willie, Glasgow says:

    Stu
    That’s my £55 in the pot.
    I reckon that this fund raiser could be one of the most vital.
    I think we can all see the dark clouds of war looming!
    Indy ref 2 on the way and the unionists are marshalling their forces.
    Stand firm!

  19. Ruglonian says:

    Come on folks, let’s recycle that fiver more than we ever have before 😉

    *away to take my turn*

  20. sarah says:

    Is Paypal free i.e. does the Rev get 100% of donation or is there a 10% charge as on Indiegogo [sorry, indiegogo – I realise you’re doing a great job…].

  21. Macart says:

    Thruppence ha’penny contributed. 🙂

  22. Stupid fundraiser for stupid undemocratic racist seps taken in by wee krankie like cult fools with no brains who lost two referendums and the bullying SNP every single member said that was it for a generation a lifetime an eternity, my lunch break anyway. I hope it fails to reach £100,000 or at least £200,000.

  23. schrodingers cat says:

    soz 4 being dense, I cant contribute to this crowd fund using paypal, but i can make a general donation to wos using paypal via the donate button? yes?

  24. X_Sticks says:

    I’m in. I hope we do as well as the previous fundraisers. We’re going to need every penny if we’re going to win this.

    Your brilliant analysis of our woeful media is an endless wonder. I doff my (well known) hat to you Mr Campbell.

  25. schrodingers cat says:

    10k in less than an hour ????

  26. Marie Clark says:

    That’s my twa or three bawbees contributed. Pleased to do it.

  27. Col says:

    Worth every penny and more. Will donate more when I get paid on Thursday. Hope we can do as good as previous crowd fundraising efforts and greatly surpass what is the target amount.
    Every effort must be made to secure our independence from now until the vote. We have to make folk realise that independence is where we are headed and there’s no point voting no as we will likely suffer greatly at the hands of the tories for ten years. Whatever disruption caused by ending this united kingdom will pale in comparison to ten years at least of the worst tory government ever.

  28. DebzoHighland says:

    Donation made. Keep up the excellent work Rev Stu.

  29. heedtracker says:

    When pay day comes:D

    Worth every penny, should be NHS prescription, in stress therapy costs alone. Observe hourly UKOK tory hackdom across the land, stress level jumps, click on WoS…

  30. Senlac says:

    Anyone up for arranging proper fundraising events?

    I do like a good Race Night or Ceilidh! 😉

  31. Lollysmum says:

    My favourite time of year when we wingers yes, every last one of us gets to tell the unioniosts what we think of them & Stu. Ha ha I love to watch that total climbing knowing that with every £ added a yoon somewhere is swearing 🙂

  32. Desimond says:

    You had me at “crippling cartoonist costs”

  33. Proud Cybernat says:

    Will chip some dosh your way in a wee whilie, Rev. Every penny worth it.

    She’s yoon batshit mentally serious…

    http://imgur.com/a/PenI7

  34. sarah says:

    Schrodingers cat 09.51 and I 09.47 need some help…!!

  35. misteralz says:

    £55 here. It’s all I can do to support you from NL!

  36. yesindyref2 says:

    Fish supper contributed minus the price of crab paste and bread. Luxury!

  37. Beor says:

    Done. Come here every day so it’s the least I can do

  38. One_Scot says:

    I only had one job to do today, ensure continuation of Wings. Job done.

  39. Andrew Brown says:

    Contributed with thanks. Keep up the good work Stu.

  40. Bill McLean says:

    Sent!

  41. Beor says:

    Very good! Thirteen and a half grand in a few hours. Ready to make sure it gets to target by end date.

  42. Capella says:

    Tuppence worth in. So much for “nothing happening in 2017”!

  43. Nana says:

    I’m sure the rumbling and rattling noise I’m hearing is historywoman’s teeth gnashing, lol

  44. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, might have to see if I can stretch to a beanie hat in a week or two …

  45. Beor says:

    A third of the way!

    Stu – I reckon your target is too low!

  46. Vestas says:

    Just gone past £15k – not bad for 2 hours 🙂

  47. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Every success Stuart!

  48. Skip_NC says:

    Greetings from Raleigh, North Carolina. Well, that’s my wee bit done. Thirty-three percent done already! More than ever, we need to do this. The British empire, as all empires inevitably do, is over. It’s day in the sun has been made possible by millions of people from numerous countries. Let’s not wait till the sun finally sets. Let’s get out now and, as a free country, contribute positively to the family of nations.

  49. Easyblues says:

    Pleased to fund Wings…

    Will it be safe to use the postal vote system or will that be the Achilles heel of the next referendum?

    Can the Scottish government securely police the voting system as I think the gloves will be off…Big time…

  50. Beor says:

    Just a thought : passed 35% with around 320 backers. Given daily readership that is just a small percentage. If we all make an effort we can reach 100% in a day – or two.

    Would put a lot of noses in pokes if we did!

  51. old highlander says:

    Up a thousand in the few minutes it took to contribute my twopence worth.

  52. Paula Rose says:

    Oh goodie I needed a new umbrella – starts saving.

  53. dakk says:

    You are needed now more than ever Stuart.Hope it goes well.

    Every little helps.

  54. Steambam says:

    It’s a priviledge to contribute to our country’s future.

  55. Bill Dale says:

    Happy to contribute to the most important site for Scotland’s future. Now over £17,000 and rising!

  56. Puzzled Puss says:

    Contribution made. Thanks for the superb job you do.

  57. Robert Louis says:

    Just remember, the mad unionists and their utterly pathetic so-called ‘journalists’ in the media will be watching this, and every time that total rises, they will wince.

    Worth donating, purely for that kind of joy. 🙂

  58. Blackhack says:

    Ah’ll fling a single shullin or two into the hat..

  59. supporter says:

    Wings,
    Can’t contribute. Stuck in Indiegogo loop: contributions -> shipping address. NOT in Facebook or Indiegogo. Other means of payment please?

  60. Bob MACK says:

    @Sarah,

    Pay pal is free. I use it for a standing monthly donation to wings.

  61. Flower of Scotland says:

    It’s at £18,767 now! Wow.

    Well done everyone especially Stu. We couldn’t do without you.

  62. Robert Louis says:

    Boom just passed 20k in two hours.

  63. sarah says:

    @Bob MACK – thanks, Bob, I want every penny to count. Mind you I’ve put a few pence on Indiegogo too as I like to join in the party!!

  64. Beor says:

    Good grief! 45% of target reached already. Have a good feeling about this. We’re on a roll!

  65. Caroline brown says:

    Dont have a credit card .Can we pay via paypal?

  66. fillofficer says:

    ye got my last few shekels – so happy to GIRU the yoons 😉

  67. Vestas says:

    Just as an aside to those of you who use PayPal – they act pretty much as a bank in the UK but have NO banking licence.

    This means that you have NO protection, no recourse to complaint to anyone within the UK and no ombudsman to arbitrate. PayPal have basically no laws at all to comply with & the ones they do they ignore.

    Other EU countries HAVE forced PayPal to obtain a banking licence, the UK hasn’t – despite the Ombudsman recommending it on multiple occasions to both red & blue tories.

    Why that is you can speculate but PayPal have extensively lobbied both red & blue tories over the last 10 years to prevent regulation. I hear they do VERY good dinners for MPs.

    tl;dr PayPal are a shower of crooks/shysters who I’d STRONGLY recommend avoiding like the plague. If you don’t have any other choice then I sympathise but they are scum.

  68. One_Scot says:

    I have no idea what the final total will be, but whatever it is, you are worth ten times that, and more.

  69. crisiscult says:

    Having been labelled a racist this week, I’ve just taken the first of my 12 steps to a cure by paying my subscription to this Racists Anonymous Cult (RAC) subscription. Do I get breakdown cover?

  70. Proud Cybernat says:

    The actual truth of the situation…

    http://imgur.com/a/Sh4UB

  71. Naina Tal says:

    Just contributed. Think we can do this in a day/ alternatively smash the total in the time it has to run.

    Wee complaint sent to Indiegogo that they don’t think Scotland exists. Hate having to click “UK” Grrrrr.
    Small price to pay though. All the Yoons have is the Daily Record puir sowels.

    Still buying the National when I can get to the shop. plus 5 for distribution each time we get a Rock diatribe on “gullible” readers. Just so he is putting up the circulation, you understand.

  72. sassenach says:

    Donation done, best value for money I’ve had in a long while!

  73. nodrog says:

    Help!! Can anyone tell me how to get an EU-Saltire?

  74. Ken500 says:

    Half already. Another cracker

  75. galamcennalath says:

    Looking good. Last year’s ‘Performance review day’ began at 10am and at just over 2hrs was (from comments) at £15500.

    This year it’s at £22000 after the same running time. 🙂

  76. john ferguson says:

    Happy to donate. My concern is, when the dirty tricks and lies fail, what then.
    Many thanks Rev.

  77. Inbhir Anainn says:

    Contribution given gladly make it happen Rev.

  78. mumsyhugs says:

    Done! And when you need more just say the word Stuart! 🙂

  79. James Westland says:

    Donation given.

    We can do this.

  80. Rhona Frisby says:

    Contribution made. Many thanks Stu.

  81. Arabs for Independence says:

    This racist/separatist has happily contributed. Money well spent.

  82. X_Sticks says:

    @nodrog

    Might be worth trying Lindsay Bruce (Rogue Coder) he may still have some.

    BTW you Wings lot are amazing. Over 50% reached and it’s not even lunch time.

  83. handclapping says:

    “crippling cartoonist costs” are sending a bunch of heavies round each Thursday to break his legs so he can’t get out on the golf course and has to stay home on a Friday to do Saturdays cartoon. Worth every penny!

  84. schrodingers cat says:

    nodrog
    i have some £5 each, (i’m in fife) follow me on twitter and dm me your details, ill post it to you

    @YESNEFIFE

  85. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Macart 9.48 Ya miserable bugga donating Widden thruppennies , could U no at least made it ah Silver thruppenny ah bet the Ha penny is to Farthlings.

    Whit is it wie you lot everybody chucking in Auld money, the youngsters lookin in wull be thinking we,re ah lot of auld foggies lol.

  86. Lollysmum says:

    Just donated-really fancied one of those Wings hats to go with my Wings bag. That logo is just so ‘in your face’ a dfinite must have. Well done everyone-lets keep that total rattling upwards.Now at 51% aka £23,145

  87. schrodingers cat says:

    or better still nogrod, contact your local yes group, they should have some

  88. handclapping says:

    Just so you know:- “crippling cartoonist costs” are sending a bunch of heavies round each Thursday to break his legs so he can’t get out on the golf course and has to stay home on a Friday to do Saturdays cartoon. Worth every penny!

  89. liz says:

    Congrats on doing so well this quickly.
    I could donate £5 but 25 is too much at the moment.

  90. nodrog says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    28 February, 2017 at 11:33 am
    or better still nogrod, contact your local yes group, they should have some

    Thanks will do.

  91. Craig P says:

    Hmm, having read the indigogo page I wonder if it is worth setting up a group to divert Britnat billionaire funding. Come join me in BUMF, Batshit Unionist Media Force, as we spend ££££s on billboards and mass mailshots with easily subverted messages and blow a million pounds on media training in a vain attempt to get Professor Tom Gallagher to sound like he isn’t wired to the moon.

  92. Craig P says:

    Liz dinne fret, monys a mickle maks a muckle.

  93. Johnny says:

    Just sent, with pleasure, a donation from myself and my mum.

    Thanks for all your hard work, Stu.

    Kudos for all the research and the writing ability you have which enables you to cut through all the shit in a way so few others manage.

  94. just looking at the fantastic goodies you get for contributing,

    was surprised there is no fiery cross (light and stand well back)or white pillow case with eye holes or maybe a hand stitched Confederate Battle Flag,

    too soon?

  95. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, I see my posting as NOhistorywoman didn’t get through.

    I see “Anonymous” gave £50. That’s nice of Kezia Dugdale.

  96. ronnie anderson says:

    I got a knock back on my new Visa card,i’ll need to donate the auld fashioned way direct transfer.

  97. Morag says:

    If we all make an effort we can reach 100% in a day – or two.

    In recent years the Wings fundraisers have passed 100% before teatime. I’d be disappointed if this one doesn’t beat that.

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    @liz
    I gave £5, it’s all I can manage right now, and at least I’m in! Now I get to boss Rev around …

  99. chasanderson200 says:

    Rev, I shall be increasing my monthly standing order from 1st April as my ongoing contribution to general funding. It is a great pleasure to be able to do so to maintain the fantastic quality of what is undoubtedly the best Scottish Independence forum.

  100. Marie Clark says:

    Nodgrog @ 11.16. You’ll get a Euro Stars Saltire from The Forward Shop, 186 Argyll Street, Dunoon PA23 8RN. Costs a £5 postage free. I bought one last week and the order came really quickly.

    Hope that helps.

  101. Richard Anderson says:

    I’ll increase my regular monthly contribution.

  102. Vestas says:

    @ ronnie anderson 11:51pm :

    “I got a knock back on my new Visa card,i’ll need to donate the auld fashioned way direct transfer”

    This happens the first time you use a VISA card on indiegogo.

    Its happened to every single person I know & has nothing to do with Wings, its to do with the level of chargebacks/section 75 card issuers seem to get. Basically someone puts up a “fund this & get it free when it releases” campaign & fails to deliver whatever the gizmo is.

    If it was more than £100 then the UK card issuers are on the hook as well (section 75) and once this reaches a certain level all transactions on a NEW card will result in a fraud flag.

    What you need to do is speak to your card issuer & get them to whitelist indiegogo for your card. They’ll give you a lot of shit about how they “get a lot of fraud on that site” but insist that they do what you ask & it’ll be fine from then onwards.

    HTH.

  103. Smallaxe says:

    I’ve donated with pleasure, anything to get us out of this inhuman ugly union made even worse because of the idiotic decisions made.
    By Really Extraordinarily Xenophobic Insular Tories

    See what I did there!
    🙂

    Peace Always

  104. Almannysbunnet says:

    Next to Christmas this is my favourite time of year for giving.
    “We gotta get outa this place, if it’s the last thing we ever do.”

  105. Col says:

    I hope that an independent Scotland has some of the strictest anti lobbying rules in place to protect our democracy from corporate fascism that has become so powerful in many countries. It’s the people who make a country what it is. Not some global company which couldn’t give two hoots about people and is only interested in its shareholders.

  106. Tam the Bam. says:

    Time t Go:

    Almost 60% funded as I type (probably nearer 65 now!)

  107. ScottishPsyche says:

    Donation made.

    It is going to be a rough and nasty campaign. We have seen a taste of it this weekend.It looks like self determination will be hijacked by every minority cause and accused of all sorts to discredit it. Be strong peeps!

  108. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Vestas The new card was issued in Nov I couldn’t pay my monthy subsciptions to Wings via PayPal ( 3mths in arrears ) sorted now but ah pain in the arse.

  109. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Almannysbunnet. Ah ken whit U men its like living in Animals farm withoot the music, them were the days of our lives lol.

  110. Vestas says:

    @ronnie anderson 12:15pm

    Aye my new card was just the same – phoned up the bank & gave them shit again, seems I have to do that every 2-3 years but then again my bank is more corrupt than most (HSBC) 🙁

    A mate in Australia has to phone his bank EVERY time he pays money to crowdfunding sites or the payment will fail (banks are on the hook for a LOT more in Oz)….

  111. gus1940 says:

    Job Done – Contribution made.

  112. Johannah Buchan says:

    If (for example as a result of a messy divorce where your ex destroyed all the joint accounts) the only account I have access to is a savings account which does not allow online transactions, is there some other way I can contribute. I really would like to.

  113. Linda McFarlane says:

    Oh Goody!

    I needed a new hat.

  114. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    “crippling cartoonist fees” – Lol.

    Where are these slackers – Cairns and Moodie?

    Cheque is in the post…

  115. Dcanmore says:

    Looks like this will be over and done within a day or so.

    My donation will need to wait until the wage comes in.

    Agree with ScottishPsyche @12.14pm

  116. galamcennalath says:

    ScottishPsyche says:

    It is going to be a rough and nasty campaign.

    Aye. Head up, shoulders back, then greet everyone with a friendly smile and good manners. State your piece politely.

    The contrast between the decency of YES and the low life swarming around NO will then be crystal clear to the world.

    Often folks accused YES1 of not tackling the negativity head on. I disagree, now more so. We need to stay positive and leave negativity to the negative side. Their behaviour is showing them up for what they are. How many soft NOs and rLabour did Khan convert to Yes at the weekend? Quite a few I believe.

    Some of the characters associated with the Union are so nasty that it reflects badly on the Union they try to support. Great! Leave them to it!

  117. Bob MACK says:

    @Johanna Buchan,

    You can go into any branch of your bank and make a direct bank transfer. The numbers you need will be under the “donate “icon at the top of the this page.
    There should be no charge. ( instructions are there).

  118. ronnie anderson says:

    Panic over donation made , there must have been a backup on people donating. Keep it going Peeps & share it on every Yes Page.

  119. call me dave says:

    No problem to contribute to the WOS site. Worth every £.

    Target should be done and dusted by tommorow.

    ———————————————————–
    PS:

    Orcadian passport anyone?

    Radio shortbread giving it loud on Beattie and even raising the question of becoming part of Norway… all in the melting pot.

    FGS! “Just flying a kite” says John. Aye right. 🙂

    Good old auntie!

  120. Proud Cybernat says:

    @Johanna Buchan

    Maybe a prepaid card might help your situation? You can review some of them here:

    http://www.money.co.uk/prepaid-cards.htm

    You pay money into the card (which you can do at most newsagents etc) and you can then use the card to pay/buy things online just like most debit/credit cards. It’s not linked to any bank account. Obviously use one that has the least amount of charges.

  121. Macart says:

    @ronnie anderson

    Might have been a sixpence, but ahm no lettin’ oan. More to come as and when.

    I reckon its going to be needed.

  122. Smallaxe says:

    O/T
    Vestas says:

    “but then again my bank is more corrupt than most (HSBC) ?”

    Not as corrupt as it was!

    RE: HSBC

    India Thorogood, Greenpeace <team [dot] uk [at] greenpeace [dot] org

    Amazing! Since we exposed HSBC’s links to destructive palm oil companies, the boss of HSBC has been grilled about forest destruction in front of politicians and world leaders. [1] Our pressure is working, so now is the time to turn up the heat even
    more.

    India
    Greenpeace UK

    NOTES:
    [1] The boss of HSBC was grilled at the World Economic Forum while on a panel with Al Gore and two Prime Ministers, you can view the video on Facebook here: https://secure.greenpeace.org.uk/davos-video

    —–
    Hi, Smallaxe.
    Greenpeace has just revealed that HSBC, the biggest bank in the UK, is funding palm oil companies destroying rainforest in Indonesia. We’ve even caught the catastrophic damage on camera.

    Forest destruction is helping to push orangutans to the brink of extinction. It’s causing forest fires which are linked to deaths of thousands of people every year. Yet HSBC is pumping piles of cash into this crisis.

    Please click the button to watch the bulldozers in action – then sign the petition telling HSBC to stop cashing in on this disgusting devastation.
    Thanks for everything that you do

    They gave in and STOPPED funding Palm Oil companies. 🙂

    Peace Always

  123. ronnie anderson says:

    O/T
    http://www.facebook.com/MeirKay/videos/771228469682457/

    We all co exist but sadly some sections of society fail to grasp that notion.

  124. Thepnr says:

    Looks like Wings is as popular as ever with those that seek a better way than UK governance offers Scotland.

    I’m feeling very positive and happy for some reason. I think this wee tune might be appropriate and it brings a wee smile 🙂

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t3vU8IPRik

  125. Roughian says:

    Duly paid.

  126. HandandShrimp says:

    This will likely be near the target by the time I get home. I do fancy a new bonnet though 🙂

    I becoming increasingly certain that not only is there going to be another referendum but that the Cabinet are already placing themselves on a footing to do battle and the first shots are being fired. This could be a fascinating 18 months coming up and we will need all our resources at hand to counter what will inevitably be a re-run of Project Fear…because they simply don’t have any other ideas.

  127. jamero66 says:

    That’s some going: 70% backing in little over 4 hours.

  128. Les Wilson says:

    Another £50 in the pot Stu!

  129. Vestas says:

    @smallaxe 1:05pm

    There is the small matter of $7bn of Mexican drugs money they laundered – and I mean PHYSICALLY. They drove over $7bn of physical money between the USA and Mexico, laundered it via the Caymans & other places & delivered the “clean” money to some of the nastiest bastards ever to exist. That was 5 years ago.

    There’s also the fact that they are currently non-compliant with the agreement they made with the US DoJ regarding money laundering.

    Then there’s Macau – probably best not to look closely there either mmm?

    I’d move to another bank but it’d cost us a lot of money & who would you trust amongst the other scum that operate as banks in the UK? They’re all institutionally corrupt.

  130. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Macart Good manny, I’ll be dipping ma toes in the watter by the end of the week.

  131. Training Day says:

    Contribution made. And folks, we need to push on well beyond the target. We need mass circulation of WBBs.

  132. Morag says:

    Despite watching this like a hawk I haven’t chipped in yet. I’m contemplating. There’s plenty of time. If Nicola doesn’t pull the trigger in March then a modest contribution to get the beanie hat (at least) will be forthcoming. But if she does?

    Guys, this is it. Do or die time. I wasn’t honestly expecting it so soon, though I did speculate, but here we are. We get another go. But as our branch convener said, looking fairly grim, “we really do have to do it this time, because if we don’t we’ve nowhere to go.”

    Last time I had more spare money lying around and I threw a fair bit at Yes Scotland. I now think that was entirely wasted. They were either clueless beyond words, or there were people in there actively batting for the other side. Wings wasn’t simply one of the few places where we could find selfless committment to getting a Yes vote, it was the single source of effective Yes literature.

    Stu has learned a lot from last time, specifically about timing and getting stuff out there by the time the postal votes go out. We managed less than 10% letterbox penetration then, and all of it was well after postal voting had begun. Stu knows we need to up that percentage a lot, and do it a bit earlier. We have the remains of the 2014 network to build on and do it.

    We can never level the playing field against the likes of Rowling and other self-interested billionaires, but we can put our money where it will do most good.

    Now it may be that the official Yes campaign for indyref2 will be a very different and more clued-up animal from the first one, but I wait to be persuaded on that one. I do know who has the track record. If Nicola pulls the trigger at the Aberdeen conference, that’s a huge game-changer for me in terms of contribution level.

  133. JLT says:

    Done! Donated. All the best, Stuart

  134. heedtracker says:

    Wings Over Scotland? @WingsScotland 4h4 hours ago
    More
    The Wings Over Scotland Fundraiser 2017: send money, or be ruled by Tories forever. Your call.

    Just sat through almost whole BBC Politix show, Ligger Neil ed, hosted by a tory, ferocious old tory Lady sat next to her whole show, assorted tory ligger guests, all boosterising planet toryboy, aswell as long picking over UKIPer corpse too. And now they’re all over BBC r4 vote tory lunchtime news.

  135. Jim Arnott says:

    Delighted as always to contribute to Wings

  136. ronnie anderson says:

    O/T

    Just listened to Boris Johnstone waffling on about Pineapples , ah wis waiting oan Carmen Maranda appearing or that Z lister from pineapple dance studio.

  137. Bob MACK says:

    @Morag,

    I quite agree with everything you say. I have spare funds which will go to Wings in the event of Nicola pressing the button. In my case it may well be my last chance to feel what it is like to have freedom from the Union. I shall accordingly give a much larger sum than my monthly donation.

    We are clearing the decks for action.

  138. JLT says:

    @Morag

    Hi Morag. Completely agree with your views on ‘this is it’. However, take heart. As the next campaign kicks off, people will be buying items and contributing all the time.

    Hell …Stuart could ask for another fundraiser halfway through and he’ll get a ton of money thrown at him. I don’t doubt for a second that every single Winger or nationalist won’t be throwing their wallets at the various campaign groups. I can see me spending a good few hundred pound on this next campaign as will thousands of others.

    But right now …everyone has high hopes. Let’s just see what comes next with Article 50 …and then if invoked …GAME ON!!

  139. Tam the Bam. says:

    @ Hand and Shrimp…1-12pm

    Actually if you read Revs preamble ..there was an article by Kate Devlin of The Herald concerning a Unionist fund-raising cabal of pro-brexit businessmen headed-up by a former vice-chairman of the Scottish Tory party.This chap lambasts Better Together for being far too negative during Indyref 2014.So..if we are to take him at his word (cough) Project Fear 2 will be binned in favour of a far more…shall we say tactile/cuddly/touchy feely nice and cumfy Yoon Paradise type campaign.In other words,a campaign illustrating the positive side of Yoonery.Good luck with that Gordon Brown.

  140. DundeeGraeme says:

    Thats 55 GBP from me. Go Stu! You hold one of the keys to independence..knowledge and information. Im overseas but happy to contribute.

  141. Vestas says:

    @Morag 1:19pm

    If the trigger isn’t pulled on indyref2 this year then it won’t happen before the A50 discussions have terminated.

    Once those discussions terminate then that’s it – out of the EU whenever the Maybot chooses.

    The EU will (ideally) want Scotland to vote yes/no by mid-late 2018 as that’d allow Scotland to basically take the UK’s place with regard to budget discussions. I have no doubt this would happen prior to Scotland becoming a full member but its going to be very tight.

    If anyone thinks that running indyref2 AFTER the UK has left the EU is a good idea then you’re certifiable!

    After that date Scots can vote whatever they like, it’ll be ignored by the Maybot & she’ll probably have Trump on-side. Both England & the USA seem to be converging on fascism as their chosen govt for future years so all the old ideas about “mandates” will be out the window.

    Now or never.

  142. Smallaxe says:

    As W/Minster has been “Acquiring” Scotlands wealth, land and inventions etc. for centuries can we put up signs on the border saying, “Welcome to England” MADE IN SCOTLAND!

    It’s only fair.

    Peace Always

  143. Effijy says:

    I’ve just made my contribution.

    Thank you for everything that you do Rev.

    You appear to be the best value that I ever got for my money,
    but please ensure that maintain a good standard of living and take the holidays that you need.

    We rely on you so much.
    I really fear for Scotland and Democracy, if people like you were not around to give us access to the Truth.

    £33,000 in already but please don’t stop at the target as all monies are put to very good use throughout the year.

  144. Macart says:

    Worth mentioning

    Its whatever you can manage or feel comfy with. Times are hard.

    Even if its a couple of quid, its still a valuable contribution. Not everyone has access to fifty notes just lying around burning a hole in their pockets.

  145. yesindyref2 says:

    @Morag
    You have an interesting point there. The NO side will indeed by funded by rich dudes with connections in Saudi Arabia amongst other places. So perhaps the YES side should make a virtue out of being grossly outfunded.

    Onyways, 75% funded and still more than 4 hours to go to T-time.

  146. Clootie says:

    Pennies in!

  147. galamcennalath says:

    Tam the Bam. says:

    The Herald …. a former vice-chairman of the Scottish Tory party … a campaign illustrating the positive side of Yoonery.

    Saw that. Made me laugh.

    In IndyRef1 their negativity almost lost it for them. Only when they turned positive with a rosy picture with promises of more powers, equal partnership, and EU, did they turn it around and win.

    So the guy is correct, IMO.

    However, they’ve had their wee bit of positivity over the future on the Union and they burnt it!

    Next time? Vow2s will have bugger all credibility. The Revs recent poll proves even most NOs accept WM reneged. They will have difficulty constructing a positive future case for their Brexit Union within the word limit of a tweet!

  148. Vestas says:

    @Macart 1:39 pm

    “Worth mentioning

    Its whatever you can manage or feel comfy with. Times are hard.

    Even if its a couple of quid, its still a valuable contribution.”

    Also worth mentioning that if you can’t contribute money then you can contribute content – Stu could have Jakey levels of wealth, wouldn’t mean a thing without the BTL stuff that appears here every day of the year 🙂

  149. maureen says:

    contribution made. Don’t comment on this website now but read it daily. worth every penny.

  150. Ed t head says:

    That my bit in, should have had a higher target keep up the good work.

  151. Jamie says:

    The best fiver I will spend this year. Good luck ? and thanks for your hard work in exposing the dark side.

  152. Gerry says:

    Done – You sir, are a bargain – Thank you

  153. galamcennalath says:

    Smallaxe says:

    MADE IN SCOTLAND!

    Indeed. Perhaps we can arrange for a big billboard visible from trains using the Channel Tunnel, or around the M25, ‘Financed by Scottish Oil Revenues’.

  154. thingy says:

    A few plastic fivers chucked in. Try spending them in Bath, your vileness. 🙂

  155. mumsyhugs says:

    OK admit it – who else is spending their day hitting the refresh button on the fundraiser page and watching the dosh pour in? 🙂

    Every donation – whether £1 or £1000 put in today or over the next month – is most welcome and will be put to good use by the master guff buster Rev Stu. Looking good so far 🙂

  156. Fireproofjim says:

    Sent off my contribution.
    Best journalism and research in today’s politics by a mile.
    Worth every penny.

  157. Macart says:

    @Vestas

    Well said.

  158. Vestas says:

    The £45k is going to be done & dusted by 6pm IMHO.

    I hope you have some more targets to put up Stu – like x amount more pays for a survey; y amount pays for so many wee books, etc etc.

    Otherwise the rest of the month might go a bit quiet.

    IMHO you need this extra money now – not at the next fund-raiser – because it’ll give you more options/time to plan/get contracts in place/etc and I strongly suspect that people will have less spare cash to contribute in 2018.

    Now or never…

  159. Gerry says:

    @Vestas – agree 100% – This is not going to be a rerun from either sides point of view. It’s more of a challenge to think of what they WOULDN’T do to stop the unicorn breaking the chains this time.

  160. Robert Graham says:

    Morag – fair points I did the same during 2014 , some contributions i wish i hadn’t now , anyway mine is on its way as well ,as much as i can afford just now , everyone needs to know you can contribute anytime to wings not just this one off.
    O/T just published the surpluses s held by councils in the region of half a billion pounds ,well f/k me thats a very healthy balance and they have been screaming about Armageddon and pestilence about to visit them are these people on the same planet ? , how much do they want in reserve ? by the looks of it its a bottomless pit .

  161. vlad (not that one ) says:

    @Morag

    Similar thoughts here.

    I feel the troops are itching for action.

    “Keep your powder dry and shoot when you see whites of their eyes” – or something like that – comes to mind.

    We live in interesting times.

  162. nodrog says:

    Marie Clark says:
    28 February, 2017 at 11:54 am
    Nodgrog @ 11.16. You’ll get a Euro Stars Saltire from The Forward Shop, 186 Argyll Street, Dunoon PA23 8RN. Costs a £5 postage free. I bought one last week and the order came really quickly.

    Hope that helps.

    Thanks to all I got two at SNP office this afternoon and I made my contribution to Wings.

  163. Grouse Beater says:

    Being keen on financial diplomacy, I’d rather make my donation confidentially without identification or fuss so that nobody knows about it, it will not be made public. Therefore, I am sending it in unmarked, ordinary brown paper parcel – oh crap!

  164. Thepnr says:

    The Rev has dubbed this fundraiser as:

    Levelling The Field
    Wings Over Scotland – battling with billionaires

    It’s always been a very uneven playing field when media barons worth billions, the BBC funded by billions and of course a multitude of extremely wealthy individuals willing to fund propaganda and fake grassroots organisations designed to deceive the voting public.

    Our small contributions go much further though than theirs ever could, our contributions are from the heart most of all. That’s why we will win, our passion for Independence exceeds the billionaires passion for money tenfold.

    We do what we can and Wings over Scotland is the best value for money we could ever have.

    Cheers Rev.

  165. Valerie says:

    That’s my bit in, and tweeted, so all those on Twitter will do their bit and spread the link out. Reckon the target will be hit before midnight.

    I’d definitely like to see a stretch target for written materials.

    I’ve just made a start on my 2nd leaflet run for my local (SNP) councillor, he is so organised!

  166. garyjc says:

    Just sent in my tuppence worth from Western Canada – total already at 37365 – excellent work

  167. Tam the Bam. says:

    I am aware that she and her Cabinet are saying this wont happen but the more I think about it I’m convinced May will call an early General Election.Look at it from her perspective:
    1)The Tories(England) are way out in front in the polls (the Copeland result is confirmation they’d ‘romp it.’)
    2)It would offer the deflection of attention from Brexit negotiations when they get underway.
    3)The date of a second Indyref will also determine just WHEN May will declare a Gen Election so there is going to be a degree of who’s going to blink first in this respect.Thoughts anyone?

  168. Thepnr says:

    @nodrog

    Glad you got your flags. Again something only made possible by a fundraiser by Ayemail another Winger.

    11,000 flags bought and paid for last summer by small donations and distributed between Yes groups totally free to either give away or raise funds for the group.

    It’s amazing how much the little guy or gal can achieve with very little money when we club together. We bring so much more to the Independence cause though than just money. That’s the weakness of the moneybags No side. No heart just money.

  169. yesindyref2 says:

    @mumsyhugs
    *cough* 83% now, not that I was looking, oh no.

    From the fundraiser: “It’s anything we manage to raise over and above that figure that we can put into the fighting fund for stuff like printing and distributing enough Wee Blue Books to turn 45% into 51%.

    It’s not “just” the Wee Blue Books though. That last Panelbase poll is still being quoted, some of the extra not normal questions, similar to ScotCen’s old SSAS, and when the link is clicked, even if Wings isn’t mentioned, the page it goes to says “commissioned” by Wings Over Scotland or summat like’t. It really is mainstream. So next time WOS commissions a poll, it too will be quoted.

    Oh, 84% while I typed this.

  170. Turnip_ghost says:

    Almost £38,000!

    *gets out Scottish Labour calculator*

    That MUST mean about 21,000 people have contributed!

    I’ll donate this evening but I’m guessing by that point it will be past the 100% target! Wonderful!

  171. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Anyone know if there’s a list of YES shops where anyone outside of Scotland can buy stuff? Thanks in advance. 🙂

  172. Gary.k says:

    Done ,money well spent

  173. Vestas says:

    @ Tam the Bam 2:26 pm :

    “I am aware that she and her Cabinet are saying this wont happen but the more I think about it I’m convinced May will call an early General Election.Look at it from her perspective:
    1)The Tories(England) are way out in front in the polls (the Copeland result is confirmation they’d ‘romp it.”

    Labour would undoubtably be the losers in England if this happened but why would the Maybot do this? She has a majority of 16, a supine/servile opposition party (Labour) and the SNP in the palace of westminster. She can ignore them all, safe in the knowledge that Labour value the union above all else.

    An election would cause uncertainty – she’ll call one when the press have trumpeted the final (bad) Brexit deal to the heavens. Or more likely drag it out to the end.

  174. Thepnr says:

    @Graf Midgehunter

    You can buy stuff from http://www.ayemail.scot/ a fantastic resource and one of the most dedicated Indy supporters there is.

  175. MsDidi says:

    A2 I have recently complained to Indiegogo about not accepting Scotland as the country of residence. If lots of us do it maybe they will get it sorted!

  176. Thepnr says:

    Mustn’t forget http://www.saltirecustomcreations.scot/store/ well worth a visit and another big Wings supporter.

  177. asklair says:

    Done

  178. liz says:

    This is fun. Contributed my fiver

  179. nodrog says:

    Northern Ireland elections – Trigger Article 50 – Indyref2 announced.
    Can they cope? Or will the DIVIDE & RULE strategy be reversed. It would be nice to see the RightWhingers squirm.

  180. Smallaxe says:

    Vestas:

    My apologies, the post that I placed in answer to your own about banking corruption has not appeared, possibly because I put on a link to a website. Short version, I keep enough cash in my local Building Society to keep the household running, my savings I keep in precious metals as they always hold an intrinsic value whatever the market does.

    Paper money or figures on a computer can disappear overnight.Like your good self, I do not trust any bank.

    Peace Always my Friend

  181. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Graf Midgehunter at 2.34

    The Forward Shop (YES Cowal) 186 Argyll Street,Dunoon, PA23 7HA
    has stuff and will be expanding as soon as the starting pistol is fired.

  182. Vestas says:

    @ MsDidi 2:45 pm

    “A2 I have recently complained to Indiegogo about not accepting Scotland as the country of residence. If lots of us do it maybe they will get it sorted!”

    I’m afraid you won’t.

    Banking licences are granted on a UK-wide basis and have a code indicating that. As such England/NI/Wales/Scotland are essentially the same area for banks/CC companies.

    You might get a “vanity change” on the website though 🙂

    indyref2 is the only real solution….

  183. stewartb says:

    O/T

    On the earlier thread entitled “A Trivial Omission“ I posted a couple of things from George Lakoff (former Professor of Cognitive Science and Linguistics at the University of California, Berkeley) concerning framing and messaging in politics.

    As I have been digging deeper, just found out that in 2012 Lakoff published something called: “The Little Blue Book: The Essential Guide to Thinking and Talking Democratic”. Good title eh!

    And here is Lakoff on CNN briefly explaining his analysis of Trump’s media tactics and how to counter them, including how ‘fact checking’ and refutation are not enough – will not be effective in changing views if communicated within the same ‘frame’ (apologies – my attempt at providing an archived link failed):

    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/02/26/fact-checking-trump-without-repeating-falsities.cnn

    No more on Lakoff from me – at least for a while!

  184. Vestas says:

    @ Smallaxe 2:52 pm :

    “Vestas:

    My apologies, the post that I placed in answer to your own about banking corruption has not appeared, possibly because I put on a link to a website. Short version, I keep enough cash in my local Building Society to keep the household running, my savings I keep in precious metals as they always hold an intrinsic value whatever the market does.”

    Mmmm and on that last part I’d remind you of such “Masters of the Universe” moments like Gordon Brown selling gold. If you wanted your money back you’d have to wait a few years IIRC.

    Anyway I made one decent financial decision in my life & that was getting an “offset mortgage” due to Standard Life being somewhat economical with the truth on endowments.

    The tl;dr of it all is we pay 0.8% interest now (the savings rate) on a fair amount of credit we can draw on for other things. They stopped doing these products post-2008 but we’re keeping this one open until we move/2026 🙂 I’m sure they’d LOVE us to move….

    The rest of my financial decisions are probably best described as “oh well…” to “fuck, really, that bad..” 🙂

  185. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Thepnr

    Many thanks for the info. Ayemail and Saltire Customs have some very good stuff but neither has Yes or Eu flags. 🙁

    @ David McEwan Hill

    Does YES Cowal have an Email address?

  186. Conan the Librarian says:

    Who else is waiting until it’s at £44,950? :))

  187. Robert Louis says:

    Stewartb at 312pm,

    That is a VERY important video which you have highlighted. It is wholly applicable to the indyref, since as we know the arguments used by the anti independence campaign were generally a pack of wholly DEMONSTRABLE lies.

    Every person and politician involved in indyref needs to see and understand that video.

    I’ve linked to it again here, since I think it is so important. We will need to be as smart as possible for the indy referendum due to be announced. No shoddy interviews this time around.

    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/02/26/fact-checking-trump-without-repeating-falsities.cnn

  188. Macart says:

    @Grouse Beater 2.17

    😀 LOL

    I’m officially feeling both inadequate and insecure at this point.

    I couldn’t even afford the brown paper… 🙁

  189. Bill Hume says:

    Done. Perhaps more at the end, depending on how my piggy bank is doing.

  190. Lollysmum says:

    Graf Midgehunter says
    “Many thanks for the info. Ayemail and Saltire Customs have some very good stuff but neither has Yes or Eu flags. ?”

    Ah but did you ask or just look at the Ayemail store page? Ayemail was the indy group that supplied us all with EU & Yes flags some time ago. I’d be surprised if Lindsay has run out of them. You need to use the contact form at Ayemail.

  191. ScottishPsyche says:

    I’ve said many times I believe Bella and The National to be one and the same, both in terms of views and writers. As both have struggled for funding it makes sense to pool their resources as they target the same market.

    I hope it doesn’t take any readers away from iScot which in my view is a better read and doesn’t get half the promotion that Bella gets.

  192. Vestas says:

    There goes The National if Bella is involved.

    FS, money talks indeed 🙁

  193. Thepnr says:

    @Graf Midgehunter

    If your struggling to get an EU-Scotalnd flag you can buy them here:

    https://www.theflagshop.co.uk/eu-scotland-flag.html

    I’d do what Lollysmum suggested though and contact Ayemail first.

  194. Robert Louis says:

    I just hope Bella don’t re-start trying to divide the pro indy movement again.

  195. scottieDog says:

    @stewartb
    Agree. Framing is of huge importance. I’d be surprised if SNP strategists aren’t aware of this but you never know. Certainly the YES2 movement need to get to grips with it.

  196. Fred says:

    It is good news Nana, hope it delivers!

  197. manandboy says:

    Paid by direct bank transfer, no 10% transaction fee, no bother. Lets get ready to rumble!

  198. Johannah Buchan says:

    Thanks Bob Mack & Proud Cybernat & anyone else who’s reply I haven’t seen. I will give your suggestions a go if I can. Unfortunately I don’t get out much.

  199. Clootie says:

    Bella with anyone….I have Ma doubts!
    I hope to be surprised but the anti SNP range s at Bella in the last 12 months don’t give rise to optimism. I want Independence in order to shape Scotland. Bella was telling me what shape it would be.

  200. Proud Cybernat says:

    “It’s now or never.”

    If we lose the next IndyRef it will not end our quest for independence. I doubt anything will end that quest for most of us here know that the goal of independence is not an end in iteslef; its purpose is to allow us to achieve a fairer, inclusive, progressive and more just society. Most of us here also understand that this will NEVER happen in the UK–it just won’t. So I, for one, will NEVER give up on the objective of independence to achieve the ultimate goal–a better country than the one we are attached to.

    If we lose again, I will simply pick myself up, dust myself down and start again; campaigning to win hearts and minds for IndyRef New New. As many others have stated before me–independence for this country of ours is no longer a ‘nice to have’ – it has become absolutely essential. If we are to avoid the catastrophic future that awaits an isolated UK then we simply must do this; and if we don’t do it this time, then we KEEP ON GOING.

    Sure, Indy might be set back for five or ten years if Indy2 is lost (which, incidentally, I do not think will happen) but we must never stop campaigning. We do not know what opportunities might unexpectedly present themselves for, as they say, a week is a long time in politics.

    And another thing–if, after a second defeat, the Yoons think we will pack up our bags and forget it for good, then that thought will only galvanise them into the “One final push” mentallity to get all their supporters out to finally defeat our movement for good.

    NEVER going to happen.

    We must tell the yoons LOUD and PROUD – win, lose or draw Indy2 – we won’t be going anywhere; that we will STILL BE HERE fighting for the only possible way this country can get the best possible future for all its citizens.

    Oh – and they can be absolute certain of another thing. Any more of their cheating, breaking purdah, Vow-style lies and broken promises and they can be absolutely CERTAIN that IndyRef 3 will be along in very short order. If they want us to “respect the result” then they had better damn well RESPECT THE RULES.

    Still here. Still fighting. Won’t be going away any time soon – and then some if need be.

  201. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Lollysmum

    I checked the Ayemail store and they only advertised one flag from something called Wings Over Scotland (whoever they are..?) 🙂

    If my memory doesn’t fail me again, I did ask Lindsy last Summer if he still had YES flags but he said they were all gone, a lot to YES shops.

    I have very good contacts to the Frankfurt “Clan Pipers”, Germanys oldest pipe band and some Yes flags would be very welcome to say the least. 😉

    http://www.clanpipers.de/

  202. YESGUY says:

    Donated and will add more over the next week.

    Without the Rev we would be in a right pickle inundated with lies and spin . Many thanks to you and all at Wings for keeping the Flag flying .

    bet the MSM are fuming at the amounts being donated …… that’s another Union dividend we get for free.

    get it right up you’se unionists … Scotlands day is coming

    🙂

  203. Smallaxe says:

    Vestas:

    Peace, Solidarity and Friendship will get us there.

    Peace Always my Friend

    Ps Not forgetting the Rev. Stu and his Hammer of Truth!
    🙂

  204. Macart says:

    @Clootie

    Let’s see how it pans out. We need all platforms out there about now and if titles and authors can put differences aside for the big picture, so much the better.

    All outlets need to focus on who the true bad guy is and its not each other.

    Or we get them all in a room and have Nana give them a telling. 🙂

  205. galamcennalath says:

    National/Bella. Ok, they are on the right side of the fence.

    However there is always way too much opinion saying we need to be thinking about what kind of Scotland we want .

    No we bloody well don’t!

    First we need to get into a position where we can actually decide what kind of Scotland we want!

    Right now we need to be pursuading people to take hold of that decision making power. To what ends we exercise that power can be thrashed out among ourselves after Indy.

    No Indy, no change.

  206. ScottishPsyche says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Totally agree. I do not understand this now or never attitude. I want to be positive about the result but my views won’t change with defeat at another referendum and I will continue to vote for any party who stands on that platform.

    What happens next is would be up to us. We have been too easily influenced by external factors – what happened to the Quebecois, for example.

  207. Nana says:

    @Macart

    Well I was looking to get one of Rev’s hammers, lol

    I remain open to new ventures therefore I will wait and see. However once bitten….

  208. Macart says:

    Someone give Conan a shout that’s 99%. 🙂

  209. Graf Midgehunter says:

    It’s the final countdown for the 100%

    5 – 4 – 3 –

  210. Macart says:

    @Nana

    😀 LOL

    I believe it.

  211. Vestas says:

    £45k target met during working hours in 7.5 hours.

    Impressive.

    Lets see what the evening brings…

  212. Graf Midgehunter says:

    @ Thepnr

    Thanks for the Flag Shop info – that’s perfect. 🙂

  213. McDuff says:

    God bless you Rev. That’s my contribution in and worth every penny, WOS has never been as important as now.

  214. schrodingers cat says:

    bingo, 100%

  215. Marcia says:

    For those who like History last year’s appeal of £40k was reached at 20.08. ( hears squeals from Morningside)

  216. scotsbob says:

    WOW. Reached the target before tea time with less than a thousand donations. Let’s see how quickly we can double it.

  217. Morag says:

    And target, in 7½ hours!

  218. X_Sticks says:

    So that’s it over the line by 16:30. Now for the icing…

  219. mumsyhugs says:

    Done! Brilliant effort every one!! 🙂 🙂

  220. scotsbob says:

    Reached the target before tea time with less than a thousand donors. Let’s see how quickly we can double it

  221. People Carrier says:

    stewartb says:
    28 February, 2017 at 3:12 pm
    O/T

    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/02/26/fact-checking-trump-without-repeating-falsities.cnn

    Agree entirely with others regarding this video Stewart, great link, thanks.

    It is a definite method for dealing with the nonsense e.g. £15b deficit, O&G revenues etc.

    We need to be clever about the re-framing approach. Many of our fellow citizens might need quite a bit of historical ‘reframing’ to facilitate their acceptance of the reframed narrative. Best it’s kept simple. Potentially, the YES movement could provide bullet points for reframing the specific arguments employed by the Unionists e.g. racism, trade with UK greater than EU etc. Ultimately, the final points should aim to articulate a positive vision for a future Scotland and not just to negate the Unionist keich.

    Really interesting link.

  222. Iain says:

    I totally agree with ScottishPysche and Proud Cybernat we will never give up, whatever it takes, the empire is finished, move on yoons ,history is not on your side. Indy 2 is just a battle in war, that we will win.

  223. Juteman says:

    I really want the brolly, but no matter how I fill in the form, it says ‘no perk’?

  224. orri says:

    Interestingly the PhD student who doesn’t understand statistics, as in if you slag of followers of a political party voted of by 50% of the electorate in a country where the preponderance are white then the most likely outcome is that those telling you to get to fuck will be white, is at a book launch next week. Being the centre of controversy might give that a wee bit of a boost.

    Obviously the best thing for anyone pro independence is to ensure absolutely nothing happens to her. Not even an egg. We do not need any stupid wanker giving us a bad name or any more mileage to the scots nationalists are all racists meme.

    Admittedly the man being told to fuck of by other men bit might have a bit to do with gender politics. I’ll give her that. Nothing to do with them being white though.

  225. Marie Clark says:

    Hmm, the National/Bella. Think I’ll reserve judgement on this one.I must admit I’m no too keen on the idea, gave up on Bella a long time ago.

    I swithered with the National before SG elections with all the support for split your vote with Rise getting some very unwarranted publicity. Much good it did them, but I was really unhappy about it.

    I hope I’m proved wrong, but I might just become one less National reader. Oh dear.

  226. Bob MACK says:

    @Orri,

    I think you will find the innocent phd student featured in a better together broadcast during indy 1. The whole thing has been contrived by ( fill in person of choice).

    It was a trap laid by the papers to get reaction. She is more politically aware than you think, or just very gullible.

  227. jfngw says:

    O/T but well done with the funding.

    Decided to remove my Guardian account, have been reading since 1974 but the manufactured Scottish story regarding racism is the final straw. It was amusing to see the headline appear on Wings Twitter before it appeared in the Guardian.

  228. Graf Midgehunter says:

    Freddy Mercury sends congrats:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSTivVclQQ0

  229. Bill Dale says:

    The video referenced by Stewart offers one of the best explanations of reframing to counteract False News, otherwise known as Lies! Here is a possible example:

    1. Frame with the truth, e.g. the SNP is funded principally by over 120,000 members.

    2. State what the other party is trying to divert attention from: e.g. In order to divert attention from the low number of members of the Labour Party in Scotland, as well as the billionaire funding of anti-Independence campaigns, Kezia Dugdale wrongly stated that the SNP was mainly funded by donations from millionaires.

    3. Repeat the frame of the truth: e.g. Published accounts for the SNP show that the members of the SNP provide the bulk of the SNP revenue, and such donations as were made in the past from millionaires have not been made since 2014.

    This is my quick and dirty attempt to provide an example, but it is clear that this needs to be done for every topic to expose the lies and smears and leave a positive impression.

  230. Juteman says:

    Ignore my previous comment as I figured it out.
    Brolly ordered. 🙂

  231. scottieDog says:

    On the subject of framing (a subject we need to keep talking about),
    One of the most effective and ruinous pieces of framing is about the deficit.

    It’s one that urgently needs addressed.

    http://heteconomist.com/what-everyone-should-know-about-budget-deficits-and-public-debt/

  232. Maid_in_Scotland says:

    Delighted to chip in again this year. Many thanks to Rev Stu, Chris, backroom folk and all the contributors who make Wings such a success.

    The more the unionists (Scots or otherwise) are prepared to demean, belittle, threaten, insult, lie to or plain ignore Scotland, the more convinced I become that our struggle is justified. My hope is that next time we get a lot more than just the 51% needed, so that the message comes over loud, clear and unequivocal.

  233. stu mac says:

    @Proud Cybernat
    ====================

    Well said – this is something I have been feeling on seeing some worrier type posts. You have expressed it very well. As long as the UK continues down it right-ward centralising path there will always be a strong case for independence and I believe many will not give up even at a 2nd defeat, especially as we know that many of those who vote NO do so not out of deep conviction of the rightness of their stance but out of fear and misinformation generated by the UK establishment who just hate the idea of ordinary people having a real say in how their country is run.

  234. stu mac says:

    @Marie Clark says
    ==============

    The point about the National is that it is a (relatively) highly visible pro-Independence outlet in a sea of anti-Independence media. The fact that it is pro-Independence, regardless of its faults, is important. Too many folk are otherwise likely to think, “no paper supports Independence, must mean there is no case for it”. It’s very existence, even if it could be a lot better, is at least a challenge to that.

    I will say re the Bella C. thing is it would be good if from time to time the National gave some publicity to many of the other various pro-Indy web outlets, perhaps by offering to publish an article to lead writers from each and giving their URL. That would be good in helping to spread the word and extend the variety of pro-Indy viewpoints offered.

  235. David S. Briggs says:

    Some folk seem to be under the misapprehension that 45k is the target. It’s notional and at least 100k and more, is probably what Stu is looking for. Every penny is well spent and there is a month of donating to collect a dragons golden hoard.

    Don’t be shy.

  236. The Rough Bounds says:

    Morag @1.10pm.

    I agree also with Morag. I sent £500 over a couple of years to the Yes campaign and by the end of it I was convinced that the Yes Campaign had been badly infiltrated by Unionists and No supporters.

    The Yes leaflets were dreadful and the most uninspiring things I have ever seen. They misplaced two of my cheques and one of my brother’s. (the cheques did eventually turn up) As I recall they closed the office at around 5pm and weren’t open at the weekends. Blair Jenkins had about as much vim and smeddum about him as cold mince. A nice guy but he was the wrong man for the job.

    If this next campaign were to run along the same lines we would really be struggling. If it weren’t for this site and the inspiration I draw from most of the contributions, written and financial, I would just shrug and get on with my gardening.

    Top marks to the Rev. With Wings we might just do it.

  237. Kevin Brown says:

    Just chipped in.
    Looking forward to wearing my new hat!
    Took it just past the £50,000 mark too.
    Is this even faster than usual?
    Keep up the great work!

  238. Kate says:

    Wow! £50,630 now…

    Greta stuff all…

  239. Cal says:

    Rev, threw in a few quid. Happy to fund you for another year and to combat the shit that’s already coming down the pipe. You do a fantastic job and the yoons hate you for it. That just makes my payment to you all the better. Keep on keeping on.

    O/T Reading more and more accounts of EU nationals being threatened with deportation which is absolutely f@€&ing unbelievable given that Theresa Trump hasn’t even given the Article 50 notice yet! What diplomatic assistance has been given to these people by their respective embassies? Why haven’t any UK ambassadors been expelled from EU capitals? Under normal circumstances, if a country behaved in such a way it would be subject to some kind of sanction by the international community. Why aren’t they deporting British migrants from France, Germany , Spain etc? I have a feeling all hell is about to be released once A50 happens.

  240. Kate says:

    Wow! £50,630 now. Well done everyone.

  241. Conan the Librarian says:

    @macart

    Missed it, bugger.

    Been looking at Severin’s latest shite on the Graun – there’s no comments so folk naturally went on “How can we tackle hate crime with four school systems?” (You know, the one with “hate” in the title picturing a wee lassie with saltire face paint on. Subtle Graun.)

    There’s been heavy moderation. We must be getting to them 🙂

  242. Flying Scotsman says:

    OT Just read morag on wings twitter saying everyone will need to pitch in to get the WBB out to everyone this time around.
    So if you are responsible for putting out WBB in Lanarkshire and need assistance,please let me know.

  243. liz says:

    The Bella/National thing is a bit confusing.
    Where did they get the cash from for this and with council elections coming up look out for big promotion of SSP, Greens,RISE.

  244. Andy-B says:

    Claire Heuchen, claims Scottish nationalist abused her on Twitter, she felt so scared she closed her account, says the Graun.

    Of course it is all “not” a coincidence that Claire Heuchen, who describes herself on prior Twitter accounts as “British and Proud” should suddenly come under attack, 48 hours after the Labour London mayor, outed himself as a racist.

    I can’t find any of the so called offending Tweets, nor have I evidence that the police are involved.

  245. Karmanaut says:

    The fundraiser site has been buffering for the last 10 mins. Nothing appearing. I’m guessing it’s just busy as folk get back from work.

    I’ll try again later.

  246. Thepnr says:

    Can’t access the Wings fundraiser page now for the last 10 minutes. Anyone else have difficulty?

  247. Macart says:

    @Conan

    Good grief! They’re really going to keep on digging that hole.

    They made an arse of themselves and instead of either apologising or letting it lie and move on quietly, they’re determined to compound the fuckwittery.

    You’ve got to wonder just what kind of UK they expect to get out of such a narrative? Do they think they’re encouraging any kind of societal unity, trust or empathy?

    What they’re indulging in is reckless stupidity beyond belief.

  248. Lenny Hartley says:

    Thepnr looks like the Rev has broke Indygogo 🙂

  249. TJenny says:

    Help, I can’t access the fundraiser page, anyone else having probs. It’s just coming up as blank page. Eeek!

  250. Robert Louis says:

    indiegogo site not working anymore.

  251. Suzanne says:

    Well that’ll be one in the eye for the naysaysers – target reached even before the six o’clock news and the tea is poured. Onwards! Upwards!

    Re Bella – I’m going to echo others further up the thread and hope that other august pro-Indy blogs and mags will get a boost from the Nashnul. Our own Hammer of Yoons right here, and iScot, and I’d like to see John Jappy getting some more coverage across the country. I hope, too, that they will foster cohesion between Scotland’s pro-Indy parties.

    Is there any way of funding a wee free paper to go on the buses? Like Metro? Would that have legs, d’ya think?

  252. Dan Huil says:

    Aye, indiegogo nae wirking.

  253. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thepnr Yes i’ve tried it several times , hopefully theres ah big queue

  254. Fran says:

    Just tried indiegogo too, I see I’m not the only 1 having problems. Plenty of time tho

  255. Marcia says:

    Suzanne

    Discovery Print in Dundee (a subsidiary of DC Thomson) do print newspapers for £527 for a run of 10,000 8 page tabloid but down to £325 per 10,000 for a run of 80,000. Maybe cheaper per £10,000 for a bigger run.

  256. ronnie anderson says:

    Aw naw we’re oor ain worsted enama , we’ve broked the crowdfund page , anybuddy ken ah manny wie ah spanner, ah spanner ah said no ah hammer.

  257. kininvie says:

    Indigogo “Off line to perform critical maintenance on our infrastructure”

    Sounds awfully like a DDOS attack or similar. I’m sure the timing is pure coincidence…

  258. Steven Roy says:

    Tried a few times and get an indiegogo page but not a Wings appeal. Just checked and it is down

    http://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/levelling-the-field#/

  259. Betty Boop says:

    @Thepnr, 6:02pm

    Same here. Can’t open the fundraiser page.
    BTW, thanks for that wee tune earlier. Fair brought a smile to my face. 🙂

  260. Paula Rose says:

    While you are all waiting to donate get your crayons out and help lift the spirits of an important lady here…

    http://www.facebook.com/Art4Lindsay/

    and check it out here…

    https://twitter.com/search?f=images&vertical=default&q=%23Art4Lindsay&src=tyah

    All your favourites including Greg Moodie, Chris Cairns and Yew Choob.

  261. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Dont have a credit card .Can we pay via paypal?”

    Yes.

  262. Robert Graham says:

    A whole lot of buffering on the Wings page just now lets hope it’s our Traffic and not, the Mayhem Government nasty wee tricks dept .

  263. Liz Rannoch says:

    Aw right…. own up! Which wan o’ you racist buggers broke it?

    Come on fess up! Must admit I freaked a wee bit when I first couldnae get on, but relieved to see others in the same boat.

  264. Jim McIntosh says:

    Indiegogo page is down. A conspiracy to stop you reaching the goal in one day. ?

  265. TJenny says:

    Jim McIntosh – too late, target already reached and passed before crash. 🙂 I’m still itching to donate, so I hope it’s fixed soon.

  266. yesindyref2 says:

    indiegogo: “We are currently performing critical maintenance on our infrastructure. We apologize for the inconvenience, please visit us again soon!”

    Maybe it’s being DDos’s. Anyway, sounds like a newsitem –

    “Wings breaks Indiegogo crowdfunder with excessive demand to give give give.”

  267. Thepnr says:

    @Betty Boop

    Glad you liked the tune. Some say I’m a dead ringer for Stan Laurel. Fair chuffed I am 🙂

  268. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, posted a little bit about this on the Herald in the hope they’ll pick up the story …

  269. HandandShrimp says:

    Like others I can’t get on but I had a peak at the page in the office before I left and it was at 104% (I knew the target would be hit before I got home) so if it is a DDS then they wuz too late 🙂

    The fund raiser is open for a month – we will not be thwarted.

  270. Thepnr says:

    Fundraiser back online and at over £51K lets see if we can double that just to annoy the shite out of some.

  271. TJenny says:

    Crowdfund page back up. Yippee. 🙂

  272. Robert Graham says:

    A timely reminder and a warning from Nicola today regarding Mayhems real intentions towards the Scottish parliament, has she been convinced by her ministers to take the gamble and do real damage and remove political power from our parliament, the parliament that Kezia believes has just received substantial new powers from Westminster, I know she is pretty dumb but even she can read , It would be Quicker analysing what has been withheld, rather trying to figure out what has been graciously granted .

  273. Rober Kerr says:

    @Morag and @Rough Bounds

    I had plenty money last time having retired from tax-free Middle East work and gave substantially to Yes.

    I wasted it there.

    The Yes database was wiped of all names, addresses and e-mails. That was in my view criminal. Yes the Data Protection Act was cited. If I had been involved I would have had a clandestine backup in a safe place preferably outwith the UK.

    I also remember adding my name etc to a petition sheet at a Yes street stall too. All that paper is gone.

    We were so honest in those days. A learning curve has been transited.

    I also note that “The English for Yes” database was hacked and wiped.

    These Yoons are serious!

  274. Valerie says:

    Well done everyone on the fundraiser and it will be great to see it grow even more.

    Just my opinion but I still support the National, we need variety. There are EXCELLENT contributors, and pieces, and I buy it to support it.

    Others that I rate and support:

    Iscot magazine
    James Kelly
    Wee Ginger Dug
    Derek Bateman

    And two writers in particular, who are playing a blinder in recent months:

    Robert Sommyne
    Michael Gray

    All talented, intelligent, diligent people. I know this is only scraping the surface, there is a wealth of talent on our side. I’m quite awe struck sometimes thinking we are in the middle of making history, because there is so much of this journey in writing.

    Keep going, you gorgeous, talented young Indy supporters!

  275. Iain More says:

    So the funding target has been reached before the crash. Yer ah racist separatist bastirts. Smiley face!

  276. Flower of Scotland says:

    Fantastic everyone! You must be proud of us Stu!

    Best blog ever!

  277. Valerie says:

    Woah!!!

    Thank you Jim Walker, £1000!

    Well done 🙂

  278. Jim Arnott says:

    Yes, the Indiegogo site is back up and running. I decided to make a second donation to test it was fully up and running. Got to stage where my bank had to confirm my card payment and system ground to a halt. Worrying.

  279. Capella says:

    @ Valerie – I read Michael Grey’s excellent article in the National today (about the destruction of radical press by the barons).
    He said this was his last article for the National but didn’t say why. Anybody know?

  280. frogesque says:

    Indigogo back up! £53,865

  281. ben madigan says:

    O/T I haven’t read all the posts so I don’t know if this has been posted

    an excellent speech by FM Nicola Sturgeon

    https://www.snp.org/david_hume_institute

  282. yesindyref2 says:

    @Valerie
    I take a wander around twitter via google every so often, and there’s a lot os serious msm journos pay attention to Michael Gray. Very impressive. He gets a balance between being hard-hitting and totally reasonable.

    Yes, the tie-up between National and Bella should get the best of Bella, hopefully without the worst!

  283. Jim McIntosh says:

    Hoping for more snow now, so I can wear my new beanie. Wait….. what colour is it going to be. ?

  284. Jim Arnott says:

    Re my earlier comment @7:22, I tried again to make a second donation to test the integrity of the Indiegogo site after my failure to make a donation when Indiegogo site came back online after the “maintenance” of their site. Success this time. Suspect I made an error with data entry last time.

  285. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    O/T but of some interest, I think.

    Remember that WoS article “A matter of disclosure” back at the beginning of the month?

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-matter-of-disclosure/

    Well, as I mentioned btl at the time, I made an professional inquiry/protest to The Young Academy of Scotland on the presumed abuse of attribution made by Patrick Harkness, and they have obviously been considering the matter in the meantime because today I received a response from them.

    It’s a private e-mail so it would be inapposite to quote it at length, but they are clearly unhappy with what happened, believing that he made a “significant error of judgement”, since they are jealous of their reputation for impartiality.

    It seems they feel that while he should not have represented himself as he did, he didn’t go far enough to have violated their letter of the law on the matter by clearly representing his views as theirs. Which is a reasonable enough decision in the circumstances, I think.

    However, they are also clearly concerned enough about what happened to be formally considering official guidance to office holders to ensure that after leaving office any such embarrassment is never repeated.

    I assume that their concern has duly been passed on to Mr. Harkness, so while alas we probably won’t be spared his anti-indy rhetoric in the future (=sigh=), it will certainly not be misattributed again, even by implication, to YAS.

    In responding to their reply, I might suggest that a letter be sent to “The Times” publicly disassociating their organisation with the very partial views expressed in that article by Harkness.

  286. heedtracker says:

    Usually sneaky creepy stuff from Seve of the Graun today or as usual. But teamGB reality far far worse. Graun creeps no doubt trying to think of way to use this to smear YES Scots.

    http://archive.is/MvPgV

    Lisa O’Carroll
    Tuesday 28 February 2017 15.00 GMT Last modified on Tuesday 28 February 2017 18.43 GMT
    A Scottish woman and her French scientist husband have decided to quit the UK because of Brexit after his application for permanent residency was rejected by the Home Office, despite him working in the country for more than 20 years.

  287. ScottishPsyche says:

    The racist label now being used towards the Independence movement is similar to the antisemitic one aimed at Jeremy Corbyn. No matter what he said or did it was driven home.

    I suspect that is the way they will go from now on and probably coordinated from the same sources. It will be difficult to resist but we will have to learn to identify these attacks as early as possible.

  288. yesindyref2 says:

    So place your bets, when’s it going to reach the £100K …

  289. Dal Riata says:

    And… the Indiegogo site is back up and running again.

    This whole racist bullshit story, with its bad actors and predictable reactions, is so blatantly a contrived piece of Rule Brittania black arts that, if not for it being yet another disgrace foisted upon the people of Scotland by our ‘partners in the Union’ [Sic], would be nothing but laugh out loud comedic trash.

    ‘Important’ politician in English eyes, Khan, comes to Scotland and accuses Scots, at least those who view self-determination for their country as a right, of being racists. Tic.

    One of the UK’s mainstream newspapers ie the Guardian, which champions itself as being liberal and progressive, but in fact is British Nationalist, Unionist and anti-SNP to the core, then publishes an article by a lady, who happens to be black, who is a Phd student. This lady, given gravitas by virtue of being highly intelligent, produces an article that more or less agrees with Khan’s assertions that at least fifty percent of Scots are racist. The Guardian allows comments BTL which, predictably, are mostly agreeing with the authoress while also being abusive to Scots, the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon. Tic.

    Reaction to the inflammatory, lying and unconscionable article is predictible: Scots of all hues and none are outraged at the smearing of them and their country and use social media to do so. Tic.

    The Guardian, via Severin Carrell’s poisonous pen, then declares that the lady, who happens to be black, has quit Twitter because of the ‘vile abuse’ received. Not only that, she now ‘fears for her life’. Tic.

    And… Tic. Tic. Tic. Tic… job done!

    Prod the beehive with a dirty, shitty stick, then accuse the stupid bees of attacking the innocent dirty, shitty stick-holder for doing nothing… except prodding them with a dirty, shitty stick.

    This is but a rehearsal for the real filthy and dangerous ‘work’ that will be done by the British establishment and its masters of the dark arts as the days to IndyRef2 come nearer. Being forewarned is to be forearmed.

  290. Jim Arnott says:

    Just had confirmation that my second donation went through OK. That means my lastest donation to Wings today was my third. Delighted as three donations are better than two donation which are better than a single donation. Wings and Wingers do a great job for our Cause ie an Independent Scotland.

  291. galamcennalath says:

    ben madigan says:

    an excellent speech by FM Nicola Sturgeon

    Indeed. On the subject of the ‘democratic deficit’.

    Almost everything I’ve heard from the SNP recently has focused on that. It looks as if it will be central to IndRef2. Fair enough.

  292. Glamaig says:

    stewartb says:
    28 February, 2017 at 3:12 pm

    http://edition.cnn.com/videos/tv/2017/02/26/fact-checking-trump-without-repeating-falsities.cnn

    No more on Lakoff from me – at least for a while!

    Please keep them coming! This is really important. It takes training to recognise this stuff in the wild so what chance does the ordinary punter have.

    If only there could be a WBB – Laymans Guide to Interpreting the Media, with examples of each technique.

  293. RoryD says:

    Happily contributed equiv of £2/wk ……. have come to rely heavily on Wings, not least for my sanity in these mad times.

  294. Nana says:

    Donation done Stuart, happy to support the wonderful Wings.

  295. Brian Powell says:

    It’s interesting that Unionists don’t understand that all these tactics are the reason why they are losing.

  296. Slatanictrash says:

    I wonder if the WOS annual fundraiser will smash the record total set 2 years ago?

    Already £10,000 over the set target with a month to go

  297. Albaman says:

    How come that “The National ” has a circulation of approximately 9,000, when the S.N.P. itselfe has a membership in access of 100,000, there is something not adding up here, subversion by the printing press??.

  298. Skintybroko says:

    Contribution made and for an excellent service. Thanks for the continual flow of information debunking the Unionist propaganda.

  299. msean says:

    Cash duly recycled.

  300. heedtracker says:

    Same day Graun creeps smear Scots as racists, more reality in the UKOK zone,

    http://archive.is/SVjMh

    News›UK›UK Politics
    Most European doctors considering leaving UK due to Brexit, GMC reveals
    Exclusive: General Medical Council warns that the departure of so many trained doctors ‘would have a serious impact on patient care’

  301. Artyhetty says:

    Ha haaaa, brilliant to see the unionists getting all agitated at the support for Wings, and thereby for independence for Scotland. 🙂

    Just catching up today, will contribute even if just a wee token. 🙁

    Well done so far, fabulous!

  302. Tam Jardine says:

    Well done everyone. I may or may not have punted some in earlier… will need to check the bank to see if it has gone through. Well worth it as ever. Aside from Stu’s excellent work it is a joy reading a website that is not rendered unreadable by advertising.

    Re Nicola today- I have been trying to see footage of the speech at the David Hume Institute without luck. Does anyone know if such a thing exists?

    I’ve been taking a little break- getting bogged down with twitter. I have to say I’ve been rendered furious by the pish from Sadiq Khan and now this guardian campaign to smear us all. All this baws and I’ve yet to see one screengrab of a racist remark. This speaks of the desperation of the guardian and these appalling provocative tactics.

    It also tells me that in the absence of any examples of racism that our national movement is in good shape on that score. Although there is no room for complacency I can’t help feeling that the world has gone slightly insane.

    I attended the One day without us pro-migrant protest at the mound last week. I half expected to be in a minority of Scots with the majority of folk there EU migrants. It think it was the opposite- at least half the folk there seemed to be Scottish and plenty of yes badges on display.

    They can attack our movement and traduce us all, desperately trying to provoke the desired reaction but they only look more and more desperate. When respected journalists from both sides are shaking their heads at the tactics you know that this shit just won’t work anymore.

    Anyway- thanks again to all. Proud to be part of this.

  303. CameronB Brodie says:

    That was a doddle. Can we start again once we reach double the target? 🙂

    OT. I don’t do twitter so was hopping someone could tweet this link to Sister Outrider, who is as ‘off-the-scale’ as History Woman, IMHO.

    http://www.discourses.org/OldBooks/Teun%20A%20van%20Dijk%20-%20Communicating%20Racism.pdf

  304. Stonefaction says:

    Contribution made. Money well spent. New hat for me….just in time for a Scottish Summer. 😉

  305. Joybell says:

    Always very happy to donate, Stu.

  306. yesindyref2 says:

    From what I remember at the time of Bella apparently going to shut down, the board soon after said they didn’t need a fundraiser, which presumably means they got backers. Taking that with The National’s low circulation, it seems to me this is a mutual benefit thing, helping The National to survive.

    So I think we should support it, even while clenching our noses if appropriate, forgive and (sneeze) forget. With any luck the Bella board will reign in its excesses – there’s SNP on that board.

    Anyway, not to worry, a crumbling pebble will be along shortly to make everyone happy with The National again!

  307. Thepnr says:

    That fact that a Wings crowdfunder not only meets but exceeds it’s target in a matter of hours infuriates the Unionists and especially the Unionist media who by themselves would be unable to raise more that a few buttons for them to set up on their own with a Unionist blog.

    For all the millionaires their side have backing them it really means little. It is here you will find genuine people willing to give what they can so as Scotlands democratic voice is not ignored.

    Let’s face it, we don’t have much in the armory but what we do have in Wings is very powerful and that it why it is hated so much. You see it is not just the articles that the Rev writes it is what you all post below the line than matters so much too.

    You are the voices of ordinary Scots, all Scots be they born here or not, we are being heard. I trust the Rev 100% to use any funds he raises wisely on our behalf, if I could I’d give him millions and make him in charge of the next Yes campaign.

    This isn’t some slobbering sucking up it’s the truth, Yes Scotland literally did have millions, Wings had only what we contributed yet the WBB was far more effective than anything Yes produced.

    All the Yes flags we saw came from Wings contributors, so to did Independence Live and iScot magazine. Ayemail got another 11,000 flags out after Brexit ready for the next campaign.

    None of this would have been possible without Wings, well done to all that contributed today, I believe more is yet to be contributed which is good. If the Tories are having a “war cabinet” to discuss Independence we need a war chest ready to spend when the bell is rung for the next round. I’m happy for the Rev to be the guardian of our war chest.

    This time we cannot lose so let’s do everything we can now and be ready for them. All good ideas welcome.

  308. liz says:

    Re all the racist crap on twitter today, I think this helped the fund raiser.

    Disappointed at folk who should no better believing this ‘hounded of twitter’ B/S.

    There is also an online tweet from Rosa Zambonini about abuse from labour councillors making her decide to stand down.

    https://twitter.com/ROSAZAMBONINI/status/836663985818767360

    That’s the major difference between the ‘sister’ and this.
    Twitter folk take offence, rightly so, but official SLAB involved in hounding of a young woman, no comment from anyone

  309. John H. says:

    Thanks Rev. for giving us the chance to make a difference. I am so proud of Wings. We are part of a democratic movement which wants to change Scotland for the better.

    The Unionists hate us because we are peaceful, determined, and won’t stop until we win.

  310. stu mac says:

    @m Jardine
    =============

    It seems not that long since I gave a donation to the Guardian. Thought their Scottish coverage was poor but felt we needed something to stand against the Mail/Express/Murdoch poison. Since then their coverage has moved from poor to pretty well anti-Scottish (never mind anti-SNP) and if I had even any fleeting thought of donating to them again yesterday’s poisonous nonsense from Claire Heuchan killed that idea off. Mind you since then they’ve been pretty feeble in challenging the Tories from a UK/England point of view anyway. I don’t think they know what they’re for any more. Wouldn’t be surprised if they turned into a Tory paper one day soon.

  311. CameronB Brodie says:

    Thepnr
    We also need a get-together. Heard any noises?

  312. William Wallace says:

    @ Conan (5.47pm).

    I was moderated on that particular thread rapidly.

    My first post was:

    “FAO Guardian.

    To attempt to demonise Scotland’s independence movement and portray it as racist and divisive is to do the people of Scotland a great disservice.

    Facilitating the publication of such a fundamentally flawed and biased piece (Written by a “better together” staunch unionist devotee I might add) is to be complicit in any Unionist attempt to portray Scotland’s independence movement in this unjustifiable and extremely negative light. This is not fair and balanced news reporting or any sort of journalism with standards. Fair criticism of Scotland we can accept but blatant lies and smears we will not.

    Worse, is that after labelling almost half of Scotland’s population racist and divisive in the article in question, you shut down the right to reply and thus denied many of Scotland’s independence supporters the right to refute the absurd claims and smears made by the article writer and published by this “newspaper”.

    Not only do I find this distasteful and offensive but, I truly consider it a new and extreme low for this “newspaper”. It is something I would have expected from a red top daily but, clearly the distinction between them and yourselves is getting blurrier by the day.

    Whoever sanctioned this piece (and I am pretty sure we can take a fair guess at who that particular person is) ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. It is an absolute hatchet job and a large stain on this newspapers reputation.

    If there is any doubt as to why your circulation and readership is declining not just in Scotland but, throughout the UK and indeed the wider world then the facilitation of articles of this nature should serve as a reference point as to exactly why.

    I have been angry at this paper in past, saddened even by what I have read here but, be in no doubt that I am thoroughly disgusted by this new and appalling direction of travel that you have undertaken here. It makes me sick to the pit of my stomach and it will live long in the memory of Scotland’s tolerant, progressive and inclusive independence movement.

    You cannot tell us who and what we are because we know who and what we are. We are a group of passionate, committed and decent people from various backgrounds, ethnicities, religions and political view points. What unites us is a shared belief that Scotland can govern itself far better than we can be governed by Westminster and that we have the absolute right to control our own destiny.

    To portray it as something that is non inclusive, divisive and racist is as laughable as it is contemptible.”

    I think that post lasted about 5 minutes (was still early) so I followed it up with:

    “Duly noted. May as well just ban every Independence supporter from commenting on your site as you clearly want to preach in an echo chamber.

    You have tried a hit and run on us Guardian and you don’t have the backbone to engage in any meaningful discussion over it because you know that you are fundamentally wrong on this one.

    Open the relevant discussion back up if you want to avoid fluff pieces veering off topic.

    Pretty sure Scotland would like it’s say on the matter. How’s that for non inclusive?”

    I think that post made all of 1 minute at the most so I was being actively monitored and moderated and noted other pro indy posters were being treated in much the same way.

    I finished off with the following which for some reason was not moderated (despite being a tad more vitriolic):

    “It’s beyond comedy, it really is. What would you like me to type? What would suit your narrative? I think I can guess but, you will not get a rise out of our movement because we are smarter and better than that.

    This place is not worthy of further input. Fake news garbage. No wonder the Trumpster told you to take a hike. 🙂

    I am actually looking forward to the day that your circulation declines into oblivion. I’m reserving a very special single malt for that particular day.

    Just terminate my account at this juncture (formal request). There is no meaningful discussion to be had here. I’m out.”

    I think they left that comment in to show an indy supporter in a negative light tbh. I’d had enough of the place anyway so good riddance to it. Arguing with some of the parroting Yoons on there (Sebby, Glenn and Co) got pretty tiresome some time ago so it won’t be missed

  313. Rock says:

    Morag,

    “I threw a fair bit at Yes Scotland. I now think that was entirely wasted. They were either clueless beyond words, or there were people in there actively batting for the other side.”

    Never forget that they wanted nothing to do with WOS.

  314. Rock says:

    The National and Bella ganging up to promote the Greens and RISE at the expense of the SNP in the run up to the crucial council elections.

    In my view, those who think that The National supports independence are more gullible than those who vote Labour thinking that it will protect them from the Tories.

    Don’t buy The National for the rest of the week and send the money saved to WOS.

  315. crazycat says:

    @ Dal Riata at 8.00

    I’m really surprised you thought the comments on that Guardian article were mostly supporting the author!

    I sat up till after 4 o’clock this morning (more fool me, I know) reading all 1,242 of them, and although I didn’t keep a tally, my impression was that her views were getting shredded. So were Sadiq Khan’s. There was no abuse, though (I obviously didn’t see the moderated comments, but there were not that many).

    The article was closed for comments when I did this, and I’ve just checked that there were no further additions. I was pleasantly surprised that she was so forcefully corrected. There were a few unionists, but they were usually answered too.

    Maybe I just saw what I wanted to see!

  316. Orri says:

    I thought I read that the Marty of Khangate said that part of her reason for quitting Twitter was that people were probing her for information she feared would tell them where she lived. Hence she left in order to deny them access to her history. The possibility that some of those tweets might show her intent to provoke an historical opposition to independence would have nothing to do with that.

  317. crazycat says:

    For clarification – the Guardian article I was referring to at 9.36 is the original one by Claire Heuchan, not the later one mentioned by Conan and William Wallace.

    I haven’t read that one, so I don’t know how the comments split (it sounds as if the balance was heavily distorted by the moderation).

  318. Conan the Librarian says:

    @ William Wallace

    I gave up on commenting there when my last post – a quote from one of their own journalists – was removed, not moderated just *disappeared* into the ether and I was pre-moderated. Fuck’em.

  319. Scotrock says:

    Delighted to contribute.
    Keep up the good work people
    Hail Alba

  320. yesindyref2 says:

    Yay pebbles! Washed ashore by the outrageous times and tides of, errr, outrageous tides caused by phases of the moon.

    Owooooooooo I used to be a teenage werewolf but I’m all right N……..

  321. stewartb says:

    William Wallace @9.27pm

    You might be interested in something I posted on Wings on 7 January, 2017 concerning the Guardian.

    At the link below, the US journalist Glenn Greenwald of The Intercept rips apart the journalistic integrity of the Guardian, alleging at one point “journalistic fraud”.

    https://theintercept.com/2016/12/29/the-guardians-summary-of-julian-assanges-interview-went-viral-and-was-completely-false/

  322. stonefaction says:

    Has anyone ever seen that HystericalWummin and Fenella from (old) kid’s TV programme Chorlton & The Wheelies in the same room? 😉

  323. Thepnr says:

    @CameronB Brodie

    Will get the thinking cap on and talk to others. Always good to meet up and I think we will be doing more of that in the not too distant future.

  324. HandandShrimp says:

    Well a bawbee or two thrown in the pot. A pretty healthy pot at that. 🙂

    I would agree with others here that the Guardian has lost any chance of getting a bean from any of us. I used to like that paper but recently it has been awful and not just on Scotland either.

  325. Karmanaut says:

    “Crippling cartoonist fees” Lol.

    Glad to contribute what I can. This site has been invaluable when it comes to information, and exposing propaganda. And from what I can see, the unionist machine looks like it’s only going to ramp up the smears and dirty tricks. Buoyed by Brexit and xenophobia, they really seem to be heading in a full on UKIP/British nationalist direction.

    The choice is to get behind that ugly message or to vote Yes to make our own choices. The next indyref really will define Scotland. And we better not screw up because the whole world is watching.

  326. Meg merrilees says:

    Paid my dues with respect and thanks, Rev, for all you do. Gone up by £10,000 since I paid in ( a while back). Fantastic!

    Great speech from Nicola today…

    Where would we all be without Wings?

  327. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Severin Carrell (a.k.a. the Semiotic Kid)
    Not figured out yet that British nationalism is a mixture of nationalism types – (neo)liberal, chauvinistic, cultural (English) and authoritarian. The one thing it is not is civic. Here’s some A-level school revision material to truthsplain things to you, fannybawz.

    https://revisionworld.com/a2-level-level-revision/politics/nationalism-theory

  328. Thepnr says:

    @crazycat

    I agree with you re the comments on the Claire Heuchen Guardian article. At least while I posted and was reading she was giving an absolute roasting from the great majority of comments.

    Neither were they restricted to Scots many from the rest of the UK were highly critical of the article. She blew it but I think she was being deliberately provocative. Unluckily for her I saw no abuse at all just valid criticism.

  329. Capella says:

    O/T Craig Murray has an article on the Tory election fraud with a link to a compendious resource setting out the evidence. If only 6 Tories are prosecuted their majority would disappear.
    https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2017/02/tory-election-expenses-fraud/

  330. Valerie says:

    @Liz

    The Rosa Zambonini is dreadful, a young woman standing down this election for abuse. It’s from a range, Opposition councillors and ‘others’, including men and women and unwanted press attention.

    So much abuse based on her appearance (and she is beautiful imo), and her taking of selfies! It’s hard to believe, but you can be sure no one will ask to publicise her story.

    What a lousy thing these Arseholes and bullies have done to a young woman very committed to her local town.

    As Nicola has said, this is why women are deterred, and for Rosa, with two young children, they are suffering, so she has had to step down.

  331. CameonB Brodie says:

    re. the approach taken in 2014 by Yes Scotland. Perhaps they saw a first-time victory as a long-shot, so chose an approach that would give the best chance of winning while doing the least damage to the cause? Do you not think these guys might have had one eye on a possible Brexit?

    @Fabian Society
    Not quite cricket, if correct?

  332. yesindyref2 says:

    Just looking through and this caught my eye:

    Glasgow Working Class 2 1 hour ago £55 GBP

    Eh? That’s funny 🙂

  333. scotsbob says:

    I mad my contribution this morning but I just topped it up with another £10 having just read Duncan Hothersall’s plea.

  334. mike cassidy says:

    Maybe my brain cells are beginning to disconnect as I get older –

    but could somebody explain to me why some wingers are interpreting calling us racists as a meaningful tactic by the yoons in the ongoing independence debate.

    Oh, independence types are racist. Well, I better vote ‘no’ so that Scotland stays part of a brexit-drunk, racist, little Englander oriented UK.

    No. Don’t get it.

  335. caledonia says:

    Where is the PAYPAL link anyone looked everywhere

  336. HandandShrimp says:

    yesindyref2

    Someone has a parody account of him (if that is in fact possible) over on James’ site to annoy him. He/She may just have struck again 🙂

  337. William Wallace says:

    @ Conan

    I’ve been through the same nonsense with pre moderation, complete removal of posts and any record of posts (some of which were completely benign). I have quite a lengthy record of communications between myself and the moderation complaints team which makes for some interesting and at times absurd reading. I will have to try and dig them all out as they are probably worth posting for a bit of light comic relief. 🙂

    @ Stewartb

    Ty for the link. I’ve bookmarked it for tomorrow. Been through so many articles today I need to kick back, have a beer and a game of PES or something. Brain is fried with reading from a screen. Been about a 13 or 14 hour stint 🙂

  338. Caledonia says:

    I know about link at top of page but it wont add amount to indigoo fund

  339. Phronesis says:

    The truth is not free(yet) but it is on this site-an open forum that educates and informs. Gladly contributed.

  340. meg merrilees says:

    Resume/shorter version of an article in the Times today:

    Arlene Foster has criticised the press and defended her answers about a £425,000 donation that paid for the DUP’s pro-Brexit campaign.

    Last week the DUP leader claimed that she did not know how much the DUP had been given. A day later.., a DUP MP, revealed that the benefactor was the Constitutional Research Council…

    Critics questioned how she could not have known the details of such a large one-off donation — a cash sum that enabled the DUP to promote its Leave message UK-wide, including the purchase of a wrap-around advert in the Metro newspaper.

    Mrs Foster claimed yesterday she didn’t estimate the sum in a BBC interview because she would have been criticised for not knowing the exact amount…

    She accused the media of falling to subject Sinn Féin to the same scrutiny about it’s finances.

    “It’s just a pity that Sinn Féin and republicans aren’t as open and transparent about the millions of pounds that they have received from America through the Republic of Ireland,” as nobody knew who or where it came from and how it was used.

    “Yet when we get a donation for a completely legitimate purpose, to fight the European Union campaign, and we have shown everybody where it came from and what it was spent on, people are still asking questions of us and not asking any questions of the other parties.

    “I find that bizarre in the extreme. It leads us to ask questions about what the media are doing in this campaign.”

    Ms Foster also defended her party’s campaign which was branded as another version of “project fear” by political rivals, and warned that If Sinn Féin won the Assembly election as the largest party, Northern Ireland’s constitutional future would be at risk.

    “… the reality [of a Sinn Féin victory] would be much worse for Northern Ireland than just talking about it. People should be concerned, they should be worried.”

    Such a result would pressurise the UK government to hold a referendum on a united Ireland.

    The election this Thursday, was triggered when Sinn Féin resigned from government in part to protest over Ms Foster’s handling of the Renewable Heat Incentive. The DUP leader claimed, however, that they were really motivated …” to take me out, they wanted to weaken unionism,” she said.

    James Brokenshire, Sec of state for N. Ireland, should call a border poll if there is evidence of a clear shift in public opinion in favour of Irish reunification.

    Sinn Féin becoming first minister and displacing the DUP would be seized upon by republicans as such evidence.

    Critics of her tactics accuse her of turning an election about alleged financial matters into a traditional sectarian battle in a bid to distract the public attention from the heating issue.

    There are also claims that she is using Gerry Adams, as ‘project fear’ to galvanise the unionist vote.

    If Sinn fein gain the most seats, they will push for a border poll.

    The DUP leader denied failing to help reconcile nationalists and unionists in N. Ireland.

  341. Thepnr says:

    @caledonia

    I think the only way to donate using Paypal is through this link.

    After the fundraiser is over the Rev will tell us how much has also been raised through the donate button. He ahs done so in the past.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/donate/

  342. caledonia says:

    Thanks thepnr will do but like to see the total amount
    I know indiegogo takes paypal but you might have to jump through hoops to set it up and paypal can freeze money on a whim

  343. Paula Rose says:

    Still looking for your innovative art here…
    http://www.facebook.com/Art4Lindsay/

  344. jfngw says:

    @ William Wallace

    What the guardian is now up to in the Scotland section is just giving Trump’s fake news almost legitimacy. The first story was merely a precursor to the second. It was effectively set up fake news, as predicted on Wings.

    Unfortunately you cannot take any media at face value, probably was always the case just we were blind to it as the facts were not always available.

  345. Morag says:

    There is a PayPal option on Indiegogo but apparently it’s being a little temperamental. Stu did say on Twitter that donating directly by credit or debit card was better if possible because it saves the PayPal commission.

  346. Hamish100 says:

    ROCK
    “…In my view, those who think that The National supports independence are more gullible than those who vote Labour thinking that it will protect them from the Tories..”
    Once again ROCK you campaign to stop the National. Are you a Daily Record journalist? I have asked you before if you prefer the Mail, Express etc. Never got a response. You drop of WoS for a time then return again.

    Can only assume you are a troll. Subtle mind you but a troll just the same.

  347. Thepnr says:

    @jfngw

    Yes I agree, Step 1 Claire Heuchen a PhD student posts an inflammatory opinion piece guaranteed to evoke reaction.

    Step 2 regular journalist Severin Carrell for the Guardian writes an article saying how awful it is that Claire Heuchen has been “forced” to close her twitter account due to fears for her safety as she felt people were after her address.

    It’s all so contrived and pathetic really, no one from the Guardian has mentioned that Ms Heuchen was an activist for Better Together. Why not? I want to know.

    I think the lesson here is to take nothing at face value.

  348. Fireproofjim says:

    Some comments on today regarding the poor quality of theYes campaign literature.
    I couldn’t agree more.
    Like many others I spent well over a year slogging up and down tenement stairs (mainly) delivering thousands of those leaflets and newspapers.
    The newspapers were a good idea but were especially poor in content, with the headline usually something like “£500 for everybody with independence” and an interview with a TV actor who had a bit part in a soap.
    There was never anything inspiring about what Scotland would be, or our separate history, or a vigorous rebuttal of the latest lies from the No campaign.
    As for the leadership of the Yes campaign, I think Blair Jenkins was a nice guy but was unknown and was out of his depth. His TV appearances wer not memorable.
    We must have a strong leader who is respected, combative and will demand, and get, air time on TV and radio. The right person will need able lieutenants who are experts in their fields, so that the leader will not have to be an expert on everything, which was something which Blair could not be.
    A team including Jean Freeman,(health) Alyn Smith, (EU) Joanna Cherry (legal matters), Tommy Shepherd, (business) would be a great start, and better than anything in the NO camp. We should also hire a good tabloid journalist ( if such exists) who knows how to attract with snappy headlines.
    As for the leader Angus Robertson would be good, as would Fergus Ewing, but the leader should use his experts much more than in 2014.
    These are all SNP and a space will have to be found for the likes of the Greens in the team.
    I hope they are on the case now.

  349. Thepnr says:

    @Fireproofjim

    Great thoughts. We need to think long and hard now about who will be the public face of the next YES campaign.

  350. HandandShrimp says:

    Thepnr

    I agree, it has to be one of the most leaden footed confections of contrived news in a while. It doesn’t even look convincing if you half screw up your eyes and look sideways.

    As to the Guardian not disclosing up front that the writer was an active contributor to Better Together is just plain dishonest. I have no idea what is going on at the Guardian but they are fast becoming a parody of all that is corrupt in journalism.

    It isn’t just confined to Scottish news though. Something rotten is taking root at that paper.

    Like Torrance, Daisley and others, the lassie will be back on Twitter before you can say Tweet and no one will give a damn it was yesterday’s news, today’s fish and chip wrapper.

  351. CameronB Brodie says:

    Morag
    I’m not going to quote from the relevant social theories now but I agree with yourself and Denise Couper (on twitter earlier), re. the over-privileged Sister Outrider. A total trumpet seeking to stimulate independentista outrage.

  352. Morag says:

    I see the fundraiser from two years ago broke £70,000 at 11.41 in the evening. This one is only £4,000 behind that, near as dammit.

    That 2015 fundraiser was the one that went on to break the £100,000 barrier. We could be on course to repeat that. (Of course if there’s a big announcement in March then all bets are off anyway.)

  353. was she asked to write article by Severin or did she write it and then offer it to Severin?

    the whole episode has the stench of, ex Daily Mail and now Scottish Labour, Alan Rodan,

    think Khan,The Guardian and the lassie have been used by Scottish Labour with the connivance of Rodan`s pal at The Guardian, Severin,

    Rodan,Anas,Severin made a fool of The Mayor of London,The Guardian newspaper and some befuddled lassie.

  354. Cactus says:

    Workin’ 9 tae 4:30

    What a wae tae earn yer giving.

    Cheers dude,

    We’re diggin’ it awe..

    Scotland.
    X.

  355. Cactus says:

    Wherz the party?

    I Love Our SCOTLAND.
    X.

  356. Cactus says:

    Tonight is a thru da night kinda gig.

    Who’s has the hairy string..?

    Ronnie.. ur stage..

    Aim for ninety.

  357. Thepnr says:

    @Cactus

    I’m off to bed now in a really good mood, so no harm in one more laugh. Enjoy!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOQ0E02jJnQ

  358. CameronB Brodie says:

    Morag
    Itchy trigger finger.

    …and then hiding behind her gender and ethnicity. I doubt this will help build bridges after the Mayor of London’s slur of ethnic prejudice against Scots seeking simply to access inalienable human rights..

  359. louis.b.argyll says:

    ENDLESSLY repeating the view that you think the National is corrupting Yes voters, won’t make it true, Rock, but proves you’re a desperate attention seeker and a total fud.

  360. ScottishPsyche says:

    Claire H. has received abuse and threats on her blog. Vonny M. has shown screenshots of these which were received yesterday and moderated supposedly in response to her article. They are extremely personal and yet do not refer to any of the claims of racism which are the main bugbear for Independence supporters.

    There are no articles on her blog that reference the Guardian piece, however from August the 8th in a post titled: ‘Self care or Speaking out’, she says this :

    “…I am curled under my desk having a panic attack. The abuse I receive online has reached new heights. For the first time (and probably not the last) I feel physically unsafe because of it. Along with the persistent misogyny, the overt racism, the steady drip drip drip of “shut up nigger”, there is something new: the threat of violence”.

    She writes quite vividly of the abuse she receives and it seems to occur no matter what she writes about. It seems horrific and she is clearly extremely upset about it.

    I have every sympathy for her if the abuse she receives is on that level all the time. HOWEVER, it does not appear to have any link to Independence supporters. So what are we to infer? That the new abuse is worse or the same or has she made some link to Indy supporters that we are not privy to?

    Any queries to Vonny M have been met by shrieks of why does it matter who writes it? Which is true.

    So why are Independence supporters being singled out with little proof?

  361. Bowling boy says:

    Contribution to made “FREEDOM”

  362. heedtracker says:

    £66,502 GBP raised by 1443 backers

    Wow! After just one lunchtime watch of Ligger Neil’s BBC Politics show today, no wonder, Ligger’s show today was the most tory thing ever, so tory its comedy, if you need a laugh.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvz2PLiHyo4

    Ain’t nothing going to change?

  363. Chick McGregor says:

    Duly donated, not as much as previous years, but I have been an OAP for over a year now.

  364. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Fireproofjim @ 23:21,

    There’s much sense in what you say, though I’m not especially in favour of any politician being the lead for Yes2, and find both messrs Robertson and Ewing in particular somewhat too low-key and lacklustre.

    Me and daughter went along to the first indyref public meeting in Glasgow (intended, I seem to recall, to be two-sided but only the pro-Yes people bothered to show up) and both of us were particularly impressed by Jeane Freeman (appearing then on behalf of Women for indy). She was both inspirational and also well-grounded. That favourable impression has been reinforced each of the few times I have seen her on TV since. She talks sense in a very straightforward and convincing way. So I would suggest her for the job (despite the fact that she is now an SNP MSP and govt. minister).

    But whoever it is (or are, plural), they need to be forceful while not appearing rude like tRuthless, “fast on their feet” in responding to challenges, and ideally be able to condense an issue down to a couthy turn of phrase, preferably with a humourous sting in it. Humour backed by knowledge and conviction can be a very effective combination for winning arguments, far more I would suggest for most people than boring old screeds of facts and figures.

    Above all, they should be widely-accepted as being reliable and trustworthy. The last time round, people in TV vox pops kept on complaining “I need more facts”, when actually we were drowning in “facts” (many, as we know, actually being “alt-facts”). What people were really wanting was not more “facts”, but reasonable reassurance from someone whose own judgement and standing they implicitly trusted. Not least because ordinary non-committed people couldn’t possibly themselves weigh up all the competing “facts”.

  365. Still Positive says:

    Like Morag earlier I am ‘waiting to see’ when the next ref will be called.

    Last time I gave money to my local Yes group and our local Women for Indy campaign as I will do again. We, in West Dunbartonshire, voted Yes. Our efforts paid off.

  366. Cactus says:

    Lookin’ forward to..

    When Nicola calls it..

    Tis gonna be some surge..

    New indy ref new.
    X.

    Anna welcome to da regular newbies.
    330,000.

  367. Cactus says:

    Let’s go crazy..

    Diggit up.

  368. Cactus says:

    It’s yours..

    We are Scotland.

    It’s there for da takin’

    Get in amongst it beautiful people.

  369. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Sister Outrider
    You need to extend your historical and cultural appreciation of Scotland, beyond the 1707 creation of the Britain you’re so proud of. Britain is a recent social condition in the context of Scotland’s deeper cultural history.

    You also need to take a critical look at Britain’s imperial history, through a post-colonial lens. This will help you improve your connectednes to your community (and reality) and subsequently the effectiveness of your cognition and the ethical content of your decision-making.

    Until such time…..

    https://us.sagepub.com/en-us/nam/cultural-theory-and-late-modernity/book204131#preview

    http://www.nativepeoples.com/Native-Peoples/September-October-2016/Unlearning-Cultural-Misrepresentation/

  370. Morag says:

    I saw some people talking about Paul Kavanagh as a possible head of indyref2. It’s a thought. He’s highly intelligent, unflappable, an excellent writer, and I think he has a shrewd grasp of tactics. He’s generally emollient (unlike Stu!) and doesn’t get involved in slanging matches. Oh and he’s a natural speaker.

    Not to mention his length of residence in Spain, his fluent Spanish (and passable Catalan) and his understanding of Spanish and European politics. The more I think about it the better it sounds.

  371. Tam the Bam. says:

    @Valerie …7-14pm

    Well said.I totally concur.

  372. Morag says:

    Claire H. was curled up under her desk having a panic attack? Really? Caused by what people were typing that she read on her computer?

    Two things strike me as odd about that. The first one is that she actually went online to type that into her computer for anyone to read. If online discourse is the cause of her upset, I’d have thought the last thing she’d want to do would be to take her panic attack online. There’s a whole real world out there with real people to look after you if you’re in trouble but she can’t stay away from that keyboard even when it’s giving her an actual panic attack.

    The other point is the same but more general. Facebook and Twitter aren’t real life. You can shut down your computer and go out and do something real and talk to real live people and the voices that are upsetting you can’t follow you. Why go and read anything that’s going to make you feel bad?

    For what it’s worth, I think the whole thing’s an act. She’s extremely privileged – a PhD student being given a column in a major broadsheet newspaper. She’s apparently a Tory, the party of the privileged. But she sets out to insult and smear hundreds of thousands of people then when a small fraction (who don’t have a CiF column to retaliate) criticise her article she pulls the “I’m a black lesbian feminist and so if you criticise me that makes you racist and misogynist and probably homophobic too” line.

    It’s a complete setup and Severin Carrell and the Guardian have to know that and are possibly complicit in choreographing it. She has form in squealing about online abuse, she’s the right demographic to play the racist card for all it’s worth, and she was a BT activist. Join the dots.

  373. crazycat says:

    @ Morag

    I agree, absolutely.

    Another thing I thought was interesting is this:

    The paragraph where she asserted that aspiring to a fairer Scotland raised the question “fairer than what?” (which it does, maybe) contained a link.

    She answered her own question with “fairer than England, of course” (my emphasis). (It might have been “obviously” rather than “of course”. It doesn’t matter enough for me to go back and check.)

    Unfortunately, the link revealed that that was the wrong answer – as people repeatedly (deliberately; at least one commenter said it was important to keep reminding people she was wrong about this particular thing) pointed out, the actual and obvious answer was “fairer than it is now”.

    As you and I both know, checking that your references actually support your argument is pretty fundamental to a successful PhD.

    Not only that, by introducing “England”, she is the one who is obsessively “othering”. An independent Scotland doesn’t need to be fairer than somewhere else, only than itself within the UK.

  374. William Wallace says:

    @ Morag

    “It’s a complete setup and Severin Carrell and the Guardian have to know that and are possibly complicit in choreographing it.”

    Had a faint whiff of Tony Bee and White too. Not to mention it is entirely representative of the PLP’s recent antics.

    Wasn’t it odd how it all chimed around Labours regional branch office conference.

    They must think we are buttoned up the back.

  375. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Morag @ 01:23,

    Yes I agree.

    No-one of course should have to put up with hate mail/tweets/whatever based merely on who they are, and there has unfortunately been plenty of that going around, all of it due to some inadequacy of the sender and the vast majority of it totally unrelated to Scottish independence. (Scottish actress Morven Christie observed, for example, that she got a lot of hate mail/tweets from women of a certain age as soon as she started appearing alongside attractive actors whom they themselves rather fancied!)

    I’m no psychologist, but it seems to be that BT latched onto this self-victimhood ploy due to some kind of repressed guilt, since deep down they knew they were lying through their teeth and needed/invited some kind of public chastisement, while at the same time trying to exploit it to demonstrate that they were the put-upon “reasonable ones” while their opponents were totally raving fanatics. It was all very passive-aggressive.

    This business of Claire H. strikes me as very much the same strategy being re-deployed, but in an infantile and transparently artificial way. The same technique that Brain Spinner regularly uses but with a personal twist. Say outrageous things that positively invite strong rejection, then cheerfully harvest the juiciest quotes, with the addition in her case of playing a multiple-minority card in a situation that doesn’t actually justify it. (Just as Morven Christie could have made political capital out of her situation, had she wished, by falsely branding her critics as “anti-Scottish”. Which thankfully she didn’t.)

    It is a sorry sight, though, to see The Guardian, a paper with a proud radical history, reduced to peddling such manifestly set-up trash. But I suppose they are slowly running out of decent correspondents who still support their threadbare Union!

  376. Cactus says:

    Love Scotland.

    Two.

    Seventeen.

    17.

  377. Cactus says:

    Playin’ da numbers..

    Still gamblin’..

    It’s a win!

    SO Scotland.
    X.

    Hey independent people..

  378. Cactus says:

    Ra tiers du cylandre..

    Or summin like dat.

    Card please..

    8/11

  379. Macart says:

    A handy reminder, if any were needed, that there is no quality mainstream media. No representative platform for those who support self determination. There is no difference in content between the likes of the Times, Guardian, telegraph and the Mail, Express, red tops in general. NONE.

    Where Scotland is concerned the narrative is too wee, too poor, too stupid. Where supporters of self determination are concerned there is no form of demonisation they won’t employ and no sewer they won’t visit.

    Its been said before, but worth repeating believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see where the media are concerned. Their intent is to protect the union orthodoxy and the status quo both political and corporate. The corporate bit is a particular motivator in their case I’d reckon. What they are not concerned for (clearly) is societal cohesion or public safety.

    Weapons of choice (as usual) are fear, uncertainty and doubt. The aim? The spread and promotion of anger (rage), hatred, panic, division and hopefully reckless reaction. No one and I mean no one should be either surprised, disappointed or overly angered at the behaviour of oor meeja chums this weekend, from whatever source.

    Its going to get worse and more sustained over the coming months. So remember, the best responses are:

    a. Laugh and spoof
    b. Calmly observe and dissect
    or
    c. Take 2 paracetamol and go to bed for a couple of days till the urge to chuck laptops, phones and tellies through the windae subsides.

    Haythangyouverramuch ?

  380. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Stop supporting Wings” – Duncan Hothersall

    @dhothersall
    Why don’t you start supporting the principle of universal human rights.

    Transforming our world: the 2030 Agenda for Sustainable Development

    Our shared principles and commitments

    10. The new Agenda is guided by the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations, including full respect for international law. It is grounded in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, international human rights treaties, the Millennium Declaration and the 2005 World Summit Outcome Document. It is informed by other instruments such as the Declaration on the Right to Development.

    https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  381. Cactus says:

    Ahm up!

    Good table.

    Love Scotland.
    X.

  382. Cactus says:

    Fucksake.. some dude just knocked me over going thru da green man, learn da Green Cross Code mudafuckar!!!

    I’m tough and I’m still alive!

    Fuck!

  383. Breeks says:

    Fireproofjim @11:21

    You put Fergus Ewing in charge of YES and I will personally quit YES and volunteer to lead Better Together.

    I cannot think of anybody who might be remotely worse. And I absolutely mean that. Putting Fergus Ewing in charge of YES would be an act of suicide for Scottish independence.

  384. Fergus Green says:

    Best person to head up YES2?

    Lesley Riddoch.

    Articulate, experienced, unflappable and independent.

  385. Macart says:

    @Cactus

    LOVE CACTUS! REMEMBER THE LOVE!

    Aaaaaand breathe.

    🙂

  386. bjsalba says:

    The Guardian.

    The Scott Trust became a limited company in 2008.

    Says it all.

  387. Conan the Librarian says:

    “I think people appreciate that we’re blunt, concise and focused, and I think they see a direct link between what we do and persuading people over to Yes, which maybe isn’t the case with some other outlets which are heavy on opinions and ‘culture’ and the like…”

    BURN. Choked oan ma toast,

  388. Graeme says:

    Absolutely love this quote by Peter Bell

    “We want independence, not for any flag or anthem, but for the opportunity to create a better, fairer society. Not because we are inspired by a great past, but because we aspire to a better future Not because we regard Scotland as superior, but because we refuse to accept that it is inferior.”

    Graeme

  389. Nana says:

    https://www.channel4.com/news/election-expenses-new-emails-reveal-pms-top-aide-in-central-role-in-local-campaign

    In blow to UK, MEPs back stricter anti-tax dodging law on trusts
    http://archive.is/kfWJn

    Years-long dream of European exchange ended in half an hour
    http://archive.is/gR2JB

    An ‘appalling’ rise in deadly super bugs E.coli and MRSA is linked to the Conservatives
    http://archive.is/mrgfL

  390. Giving Goose says:

    Regarding the strategy of Spanner, Claire H and co, I have an idea.

    When responding on Twitter to odious and insulting comments about Scottish independence then answer them thus;

    “You are wrong and we love you.”

    “You’re incorrect and love from Scotland”

    Etc

    Take the venom out of the discussion and do not respond with temper or anger.
    And do not give them what they want with misplaced comments that offend and which will be used out of context by the MSM.

    Scottish love and positivity!

  391. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    It’s a frosty white Wednesday, links for breakfast and a hug in a mug.Thank you, Kettle’s on.

    Peace Always

  392. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, frosty here too Brrr

    I’m practising the can can this morning, not easy whilst wearing wellies though!
    https://twitter.com/billykayscot/status/836617425445654531

    http://www.thecanary.co/2017/02/27/us-interference-brexit-referendum-raises-serious-questions/

  393. Tam Jardine says:

    Cactus

    Look after yersel mate. We need you fighting fit and in one piece.

  394. galamcennalath says:

    Fergus Green says:

    Best person to head up YES2?

    Lesley Riddoch

    Very good suggestion.

    Politically not associated with any particular party, as far as I’ve noticed. She has the added bonus of being born in England and still has her NI accent from her time there (3-13). Thus negating a lot of the racist shite.

  395. Johnny says:

    Been thinking about the antics and slurs of Blair McDougall et al these past few days.

    People have (imo correctly, because it is blatant and unsubtle) identified an attempt to suggest that the SNP and independence supporters are ‘racist’.

    Many of us in the Yes side are unfazed because we believe (again, correctly) that the vast majority of people involved in the movement are not and that recent events have shown how willing our government is to welcome New Scots, wherever they hail from.

    But I think we should be cautious, for I think McDougall and pals have a stinking, rotten second strategy in mind – what I’d term ‘the BNP route’.

    Nicola Sturgeon has already made speeches to the effect that EU-Scots would always be welcome here. In any indyref 2 campaign, I am sure she will do so ever more vehemently. In so doing, she will ‘prove’ that she is welcoming (not that she needs to ‘prove’ anything, but you get what I mean).

    At that point, what we have to watch for (imo) is this: I think Blair and pals think there is enough casual bigotry in this country to then enable them to run a campaign of ‘see? she cares more about THEM (wink wink) than you ‘indigenous’ Jocks!’.

    I think (and certainly hope) that a huge majority will laugh at such an obvious dog whistle attempt, but I still think they’d try to poison the debate in this way regardless.

    If they did, it would be lamentable but I do see this as possible. It’s not going to be as simple as a one-pronged ‘indy supporters and the SNP are racist’ attack.

  396. Nana says:

    Latest on the DUP dodgy brexit donations

    https://www.opendemocracy.net/uk/peter-geoghegan-adam-ramsay/mysterious-dup-brexit-donation-plot-thickens

    Check out Rev’s twitter for today’s guardian xword Geez

  397. galamcennalath says:

    @Nana

    The Canary article.

    “It was the Yanks wot won it!”

    Everyone should be aware of what was done. In IndyRef1 the NO online activity was poor and ineffective. VNBs was a joke.

    Next time, expect big money to pay for more effective manipulation.

    People can be manipulated, but they don’t like to know it’s being done. That is one way to tackle this, identify what is happening and who is doing it, then call them out so everyone sees.

  398. Contrary says:

    @ Rev. Campbell – apologies, o/t but I do not do Twitter – the guardian clue you were unsure about for the answer ‘racist’ :

    For Carmen, read car-men = RAC , then IS (direct use), and nearly perfect = to a T. HTH

    And well spotted on the obscure arsehole behaviour by the so-called newspaper!

  399. DerekM says:

    Wow the Wingers are the best you guys are awesome 🙂

    Though not sure if i should be worried i think my better half got one of those sexy stick things lol

    Great article from BfS though i think what he suggest about inflation is already happening.

  400. Robert Louis says:

    Giving goose at 0728am,

    Excellent suggestion. It is clear that the London run and controlled media are determined to run and run with completely fabricated allegations of racism against the SNP and anybody who supports Scotland as a country running its own affairs.

    Let us take AND KEEP the high ground. We know the indy movement is nothing to do with racism, we know Nicola Sturgeon is not a racist, and never has been. So, let’s not rise to this obscene trolling by the media and their unionist enablers.

    Ask for proof for their insults. Demand answers to questions regarding these blatantly false assertions, and demand apologies. But NEVER, NEVER get down to their gutter level, or we will lose.

    Take and keep the moral high ground. They want the indy arguments to be offensive and obscene, because they KNOW full well, their is no longer any case to be made for Scotland to be run by Westminster.

    Stick to facts.

    It isn’t racist for Scotland to seek independence. It is normal, just like for every other country in the world.

  401. Conan the Librarian says:

    O ye’ll tak’ the high road, and I’ll tak’ the low road,
    And I’ll be in the pub before ye,
    But me and my true love will never camp again,
    On the bonnie, bonnie banks o’ Loch Lomond

  402. heedtracker says:

    The Guardian.

    The Scott Trust became a limited company in 2008.

    Says it all.

    They’re all aiming for that great BBC tory nirvana. Ian Katz Graun editor, Nick Watts, Graun politics dude, both monstered the life out of Scottish democracy 2014, Katz now Newsnight producer, Watt Newsnight Newsnight politics ed. All sliding in behind the tory greats like Ligger Neil, Nic Robinson, Gavin Esler and so tory onwards.

    Its not by chance.

    Is England a tory stronghold or is it all held together by hard core tory bootboys like the above? Or why do you never see anything about the 2015 GE tory election expenses fraud accusations on BBC tory flagships, run by dudes like Ian Katz and Nick Watt, of the Guardian?

    Need we ask:D

  403. Capella says:

    Guardian crossword for those who don’t do twitter:
    https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/836846943460593664

    Tome to remember the advice about “framing”!

  404. Smallaxe says:

    My answer to racism!

    Racism has been around for as long as humans have inhabited this beautiful world which we all still share. Fortunately, there is a more enlightened society existing in Scotland, the Enlightenment began here in the 18th century by representing knowledge gained by using one’s senses and proven experience and experiment, to endeavour to improve and benefit society as a whole and the individual in particular.
    Thankfully that enlightenment has produced countless people like myself in the independence movement and worldwide who believe that there is really only one race on this planet.
    We call it the Human Race.
    Peace Always
    Smallaxe

  405. Famous15 says:

    Johnny @ 8 .11

    I fear there is a good possibility that that is their game. In the past I saw the Unionists “shoehorn” the Yes side into policies I knew tobefalse but itallowed the MSM to run with a false and damaging story..

    The remainder of your comment therefore is sound advice for Yessers.

  406. Famous15 says:

    Robert Louis @ 8.50

    More excellent advice!

    We can and will win this.

  407. heedtracker says:

    STV liggers leave out stuff like Katz is Watt’s ex boss, funny that etc

    http://tvnewsroom.org/bbc-news/nick-watt-appointed-new-political-editor-bbc-newsnight-144043/

    “Ian Katz, Editor of Newsnight said: “Nick is one of the most trusted, authoritative and engaging journalists in the country.”

    Last updated: Wednesday 23 March 2016

    Basically just another tory thug, trusted crew that backed FibDem/Tory coalition, gave the world,

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/salmondbell.jpg

    and they soooo want to call Nic Sturgeon a nazi, but just cant quite find the stones to do it.

    http://archive.is/24L5d

    kind of progressive liberal tory England.

  408. Bill McLean says:

    The Guardian has slipped into the shit since the break in to Guardian offices, by the intelligence services over the US soldier Edward Snowden, who blew the gaff big style. Then Alan Rusbridger, the editor-in-chief, announced in late 2014 that he would “retire” in summer 2015. That’s what they call a stitch-up “British values” style! Don’t read it, don’t comment. Leave it to the unionists to exist in their own sound box. Keep all comment elsewhere clean and reasonable and let unionism stew in it’s own shit! They are so disgusting in their accusations of racism that I’m beyond speechless – that’s why I’m boring you by typing this. Good luck to all and be resolute that we’ll beat the system and set up our own “values” based on humanity and reason!

  409. Nana says:

    I do hope the unsensible daves/thrawns have contributed to Rev’s fundraiser, after all they do use the site an awful lot.

    Don’t be shy lads. lol

  410. Bob MACK says:

    Racist. ? Never forget what the UK Parliament did to India and her people over decades. Death, imprisonment, partition, dividing a country that remains divided.

    There was no greater racist on this planet than the British state. A history of conquest, persecution, and enslavement

    I remember the military slogan used over the last 30 years of conflict. Military commanders in theatre talked of winning “Hearts and minds”. All whilst you were bombing he’ll out of them and killing civilians.

    Clearances, theft of resources, disempowerment. All familiar to Scotland

  411. heedtracker says:

    Usual tory BBC r4 day farts into action, spectacular display of tory UK grovelers to the orange clown that is Trump,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g5k5m

    0850

    The Donald Trump who spoke to the US Congress last night sounded quite different to the President we have seen for the last few weeks as his speech was considerably more measured than that at his inauguration. Steven Erlanger is the London bureau chief of The New York Times and Charlie Wolf is former communications director of Republicans Abroad UK.”

    Is not what this is at all, just more heil Trump, vote Trump vox pop, no Democrat, just hard core tory England worship of the US right, how far right, doesn’t matter.

  412. sensibledave says:

    Nana 9:21 am

    You wrote: “I do hope the unsensible daves/thrawns have contributed to Rev’s fundraiser, after all they do use the site an awful lot.

    Don’t be shy lads. lol”

    You are right Nana! I am happy to make a donation but I can’t do it to Wings directly. Please suggest an alternative recipient for the cause.

  413. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 9.28

    How far are we going back Bob? Should the USA nuke us for colonising USA? Should we bomb Denmark in revenge for the Vikings? What about those bloody Romans comin’ over here?

    Move on Bob, move on!

  414. Meg merrilees says:

    O/T

    Is the BBC biased?

    Just caught the end of the R4 Today programme earlier..

    Interview with two of the smaller parties in N.Ireland before the election tomorrow..(.. thinks, this will be interesting)

    First chap –
    Talk of cutbacks, austerity, DUP had the money to put into RHI scheme but not social care etc; time for different politics, put people first. (sounds ok)

    Second chap- TUV (Unionist):
    time to do things differently, small parties form coalition maybe we make a difference. ( surprise, he’s not as far to the right methinks, as the DUP)

    BBC to 1st chap : And what about Brexit? because, of course, you voted LEAVE!!!!!!!!!
    1st chap: lots of opportunities, investment the sun will shine FOREVER once the UK leaves the EU.

    Second chap:
    Well, I think direct rule would be a GOOD thing for us!!!!!

    Remind me, how did N.Ireland vote in the EU ref?

    Well done, Auntie,one of the rare times you’ve interviewed anyone from N. Ireland before the election and you chose two parties whose views support Brexit and Direct Rule yet N. Ireland VOTED LEAVE shout it loudly enough, maybe they’ll hear in London.

    Notice also it was reported that the House of Lords will ‘inflict damage’ on TM’s hopes for the Brexit bill’s passage through WM.

    Why not just say that the House of Lords will ‘vote against’ parts of the bill…. simples!!!

    Barstewards!

    Rant over…

  415. heedtracker says:

    BBC r4 Today show usual vote tory grot, as their vote tory running order shows but there is actual non tory stuff out there. How come these reports are never reporterised by Ian Katz of the Graun, because they’re fake news maybe? Who knows now, UKOK hackdom is so tory corrupt they can say anything at all.

    http://archive.is/MvyWx

    114 child sex files linked to MPs have ‘vanished’

    A TOTAL of 114 files linked to allegations of paedophile activity in Westminster may have been destroyed, MPs were told yesterday.

    By MARTYN BROWN
    PUBLISHED: 00:00, Wed, Jul 9, 2014

  416. Dal Riata says:

    @Morag

    I’m sure you remember that I had a number of fall-outs with you about this and that a while back.

    I then read your post at 1:19 pm and found myself agreeing with every word. (I know – Shockaroonie!)

    Now, I would like to move on from the issues of the past and extend the hand of friendship to you. No point in wallowing in misdemeanours of the past.

    I’m not saying I’ll be in full agreement with any and all statements you make in the future, and if I disagree I’ll say so, maybe just not as ‘forceful’ as in the past!

    So then… Let’s move on. Do you wish to bury the hatchet (and no’ in ma heed!)…?

  417. Bill McLean says:

    WE’RE TRYING TO! WE’RE TRYING TO move on! Sensible. We’d like to forget the Imperial horror just like you! And of course Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya are just too long ago!

  418. sensibledave says:

    O/T

    Article somewhere ….

    One of Europe’s most senior foreign ministers has warned against “punishing” the UK in a Brexit deal, as shunning the bloc’s second largest economy could spell a “catastrophe” and cost hundreds of thousands of jobs.
    Jean Asselborn served as Luxembourg’s deputy prime minister from 2004 to 2013 under then-Prime Minister Jean-Claude Juncker, now president of the European Commission. He has also served as foreign minister for 13 years.
    He told German newspaper Der Tagesspiegel: “If the UK is not a member of the internal market then a free trade agreement between the EU and London will be needed for 2019 onwards. “The British and the EU have to go into them willing to engage, but the talks also have to be fair and transparent. It would be a catastrophe for both sides if they aren’t held in this manner. “Messing up the negotiations could result in the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs. Brexit isn’t just a footnote of interest for historians.”

    The 67-year-old socialist said the UK should be “neither punished nor rewarded” and Eurocrats must “remain calm” and negotiate a trade deal quickly. The European Union’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, has so far taken a much harder line.

  419. heedtracker says:

    Then Alan Rusbridger, the editor-in-chief, announced in late 2014 that he would “retire” in summer 2015.

    He’s retired into a top OxBridge slot. Not a lot unlike Sir Tristram Hunt of Stoke, working class hero, now running the Victoria and Albert museum, Knightsbridge. There are a lot of transferable skills for a working class heroic ex Labour MP from Stoke, what he can bring to the V&A museum too.

    Katz CV is pretty spectacular though. What its not saying is that the Graun is bust, despite using the great, “we’re not a business but a trust” tax dodge too.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Rusbridger

  420. heedtracker says:

    Should we bomb Denmark in revenge for the Vikings? What about those bloody Romans comin’ over here?

    Coming over here and doing what sensible? Rome created the Scotland we are told no longer exists today sensibledave, 2000 years ago, and 2000 years later, UKOK yoon culture says makes you a racist in today, if you do want to see Scotland actually running Scotland again.

    Also, the Scots have no need of revenge of the Vikings either. Scots and Vikings seem to have got along just fine, as long as no Viking tried to take over our Scotland.

    There are tons of Viking words in Scots languages and Viking named places in modern Scotland too. Did you know there are several Borg’s in Scotland sensible? Borg’s the Viking name for high cliff or broch. But because of the 300 year old and ofcourse current anglicised attempt to erase Scotland from the UKOK zone, not much of it at all is common knowledge sensibledave.

  421. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    We did move on. To Afghanistan, To Libya, To Iraq and very nearly Syria. All in my lifetime. Is that ancient history in your book?

    You can be assured the Indians have not forgotten. I think they recently asked to have some of their stolen wealth repatriated. ( larg jewell in UK crown).

    Amnaesia Dave ?

  422. Breeks says:

    Bob MACK 9:28

    But Bob that’s the mechanism of Empire. You divide the population, by race, religion, or ethnicity, doesn’t matter, then agitate hatred and dissent between them, so that a small military force can be expedited to “keep the peace”, when in fact it is instead holding the balance of power. Those it keeps in “power” are happy to be kept in power and behave with fealty to maintain favour, while those kept from ascendency behave with similar fealty because they want to earn favour and swing that balance of power over to them.

    Fast forward to the decline of Empire, withdrawal of the imperialist strength, and what is left behind are two or more bitterly divided factions with no third party to hold the balance of power, so more often or not there follows a decline into civil war or partition of their once united homeland, where division is all the more bitter and intractable for its years of collaboration with the former occupiers.

    If god forbid Scotland was to divide along sectarian, or Unionist lines and violence was to erupt, you can bet the U.K. would rush to send in troops to keep the peace, just like Glasgow in 1919, ….. and from then until whenever, hold the balance of power lest we Scots hurt ourselves. Would they? Of course they would. Their propagandists are already here, mobilised against us.

    They must never provoke us. We must do this peacefully and patiently or all will be lost. They can call us racists, but cannot make us racists. It is a device to try and split us, and engender hate between us. It must fail.

    See it, understand it, know it, and they will fail.

  423. Bill McLean says:

    You people and your rational argument are so unfair to Sensible. Don’t you know you are supposed to give way?

  424. sensibledave says:

    Bill McLean 9:45 am
    You wrote: WE’RE TRYING TO! WE’RE TRYING TO move on! Sensible. We’d like to forget the Imperial horror just like you! And of course Iraq, Afghanistan and Libya are just too long ago!

    Bill, I am not responsible for all of the wrongs in the world, nor are you. As you know, the UK’s responses in the theaters you highlighted were as a result of the government of the day. That government, whoever they were, were elected by the people of the UK and often reflected the majority of the votes in Scotland at that time. S, on that specific issue lets not turn it in to a Scotland good, UK bad issue.

    In many cases (The Yazids in Iraq, Libyans in Benghazi) it is probably fair to say that governments around the world did not want to get involved. However, in those two particular cases, to sit on our hands and do nothing would have resulted in genocide on a massive scale.

    I don’t pretend to have the answers (who does) but pacifism is not always the answer is it. If Ms Sturgeon had been responsible for the Scottish forces response to the Yazidi and Libyan situation, what would she have done? Each government picks up the situation from the last government and has to react to the situation it is given. Not wanting to be in a particular position is not an option available.

    Whilst most people have huge concern about our actions in Iraq and Afghanistan, we do not have the option of going back in time and rewriting history. Nor do we have a parallel existence to compare what might have happened had we not got involved so “moving on” is the only option we have and try to do better when faced with the next difficult choices.

    However, if we get to hear that a bunch of loonies somewhere are hell bent on murdering innocents because of some religious or political difference they have, then we will be faced with similar issues. We may find ourselves again in fear the geopolitical fall out of our response to saving hundreds of thousands from certain death – or we can say it is nothing to do with us because it wont resolve the long term issues that will continue.

    Based upon your comments, I guess you see things very simply i.e. nothing to do with us, keep out?

  425. Kennedy says:

    Spend it wisely.

    Looking for ward to my Beanie. Will wear it with pride.

  426. Famous15 says:

    It is hilarious listening to Brexiteers like Sensible expounding how theEU will be reasonable about trade deals because the UK importa so much from the EU.

    But wait Scotland will not get a good deal from rUK even though we import even more proportionally.

    This is such a good time to have a moderate discussion with Unionists. ( If you can keep a straight face)

  427. yesindyref2 says:

    @Giving Goose
    Great idea.

  428. heedtracker says:

    Based upon your comments, I guess you see things very simply i.e. nothing to do with us, keep out?

    Sensible, your tory crocodile tears are nauseating, sorry your UKOK tory crocodile tears.

  429. Bill McLean says:

    Sensible – you may distance yourself as much as you like from the horrors of Brutish imperialism. My problem with you is that you have decided that we should continue to adhere to the poison that emanates from Westminster regularly! Just imagine, if you can, where the world might be if we, the arch Imperialists, the French, Spanish etc had kept to themselves instead of imposing their “values” on those who had no way of resisting! No one is trying, least of all me to make it UK bad, Scotland good. We do know however that Scotland will be better without British imperialism, arrogance and war-mongering. It’s not difficult to understand – look at the peaceful countries around the world and ask yourself what the difference is? We can’t rewrite history – you are right but we want to plan a future that excludes the type of grandstanding so beloved of Westminster! As for “bunch of loonies murdering innocents”!!!!!!!

  430. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Can’t contribute. Stuck in Indiegogo loop: contributions -> shipping address. NOT in Facebook or Indiegogo. Other means of payment please?”

    The Donate page?

  431. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    We can’t rewrite history,but we can learn from it. Yet I believe the British had tried to subjugate Afghanistan last century and got their butt kicked. We saw the Russians utterly fail to subdue the Afghans, What did we learn from that ?.

    We thought that holding on to the tail coats of the Yanks would make it easier for us. Idiots in Westminster never learn.

  432. Cactus says:

    Cheers dudes, all good, anna found four black chips in ma back pocket.

    Bonus.

    Twas a remarkable feat.

  433. sensibledave says:

    Bob 11.15

    … you may well be right Bob, but whatever we do we have to start from here and we do not have the option of revisiting decisions made in the past. When we went into Iraq the second time, it was Blair that took us there via a GE supported by a majority of folk in England and Scotland – but not me. I didn’t vote for him.

  434. heedtracker says:

    Nor do we have a parallel existence to compare what might have happened had we not got involved so “moving on” is the only option we have and try to do better when faced with the next difficult choices.

    “Not got involved” is pretty good sensible. A parallel existence is an Iraq that was not destroyed before the US/UK invasion for starters, or the destabilisation of almost the whole of the middle east, with the mass refugee crisis, currently being used by the tories in the UK and Trump’s horror show in the US.

    A parallel existence is seeing Blair and Brown in the Hague war crimes court for crimes against humanity. Or the whole of the Westminster MP red and blue tory clown show, at least barred from politics completely, for what we are now told by likes of Ligger Neil, was UK foreign policy error, kind of parallel existence.

    And they stash their nuke WMD’s just outside Glasgow too. Safest place for the creeps to dump them eh sensibledave, as far away from the important places in teamGB.

  435. sensibledave says:

    Famous15 10:35 am

    You wrote “It is hilarious listening to Brexiteers like Sensible expounding how theEU will be reasonable about trade deals because the UK importa so much from the EU.”

    …. er, I voted Remain.

    You need to watch that Famous15, you are doing that stereotyping thing again. I assume that you believe that the UK is going to Brexit? That is the reality yes? So, upon hearing snippets that might mean that the UK might be able to negotiate a reasonable deal is a good thing isn’t it?

    Or are you one of those that wishes everyone other than Scottish Nationalists, ill-will?

  436. Bob MACK says:

    Famous 15 is only carrying the cross of being “sensible” Dave boy. You however just carry a cross permanently on behalf of the Union.

    You seem an intelligent person and that perplexed me. All the evidence , even from the Tories themselves points to the UK having a rough time, but people like you are trying to negate these warnings by sifting for crumbs of comfort in a few words from politicians here and there in Europe.

    You seem oblivious to the actions of Westminster at the moment, turning the UK into an isolationist and dictatorial state. Then again perhaps that suits your outlook.

    You have more to question yourself about than we on Wings do.

  437. sensibledave says:

    Heedy 11.32

    You wrote ““Not got involved” is pretty good sensible. A parallel existence is an Iraq that was not destroyed before the US/UK invasion for starters, or the destabilisation of almost the whole of the middle east, with the mass refugee crisis”

    So Heedy, your ridiculous stance that all would have been well had we not gone into Iraq demonstrates a degree of ESP (or stupidity) that I am unfamiliar with. Given your ability to “know” the future, can you tell me which countries Sadam Hussain’s armies would have invaded? Could you provide details of the number of people that would have been killed in any wars that may, or may not, have been started by his actions had he remained in power?

    Heedy, I am not arguing that the second invasion of Iraq was a good thing – but I am certainly not going to agree with you that you therefore “know” that everything would have been sweetness and light! Don’t be an idiot.

  438. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 11.48

    You wrote “You seem oblivious to the actions of Westminster at the moment, turning the UK into an isolationist and dictatorial state. Then again perhaps that suits your outlook.”

    Oh dear Bob. You are really going to try and get a grip on that whole projection/stereotyping thing you, and so many here, seem to be quite comfortable in doing.

    Me, and millions of people that live within 50 miles of me, voted by a significant majority to Remain. However, aided by people around the UK, including people in Scotland, the referendum went against my wishes.

    So, should I sit in the corner and sulk like a five year old – or try and and make the best of it?

    Grow up Bob.

  439. Bob MACK says:

    Ha ha ha, Every politician in the world and every security expert now agree that invading Iraq was a calamitous mistake. Beyond stupid.

    Yet here we have Dave boy that renowned strategist defending the invasion.

    Your a one man band Dave with one brain cell.

  440. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    Scotland is a country ,not a region of England. We are a partner in a Union. I emphasise union ( a Co joining). We made our choice as a country. England made theirs. They are incompatible, and it is as simple as that.

  441. sensibledave says:

    Bob MACK 12:04 pm

    You wrote “Yet here we have Dave boy that renowned strategist defending the invasion.”

    You sir, and there is no other word for it, are a liar! And not a very bright one at that – my evidence is written above – where is your evidence that I am defending the invasion?

  442. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 12.08

    same old tired, one eyed arguments that refuse to accept the problem Bob.

    In the Independence referendum, the electorate in SCotland clearly demonstrated a majority for staying in the UK – as you well know.

    I recognise that it suits your stance to forget that fact. I know you will come back at me with all the unionist, Britnat, b******t as usual. I know you think that over 60 million people in the UK that didn’t have a vote in indyref are to blame.

    I know you believe that – because I know you are an idiot.

  443. Morag says:

    Hi, Dal Riata. You know, I don’t remember having any fall-out with you. Maybe I’m getting forgetful in my old age! But in this case that’s clearly a good thing.

    Let’s bury any hatchets there were, at the crossroads with a stake in their hearts, and say no more about it.

  444. schrodingers cat says:

    re the leader of yes2
    I remember a similar discussion a while back on here.
    what struck me was the inability to agree amongst ourselves who the leader should be?

    Initially, i found this a bit depressing, but the more I thought about it, the more I realised that this wasnt a weakness, it is a strength.

    eg, we spent 30 mins arguing amongst ourselves, whether we should be called yesnef(as before) or yesnef2, i prefered yesnef2 but was voted down by everyone else round the table who prefered yesnef. so be it. however, 5 mins after, a late arrival walked in wearing a yesnef2 t shirt ????

    What this shows is the pointlessness of trying to impose anything onto a grass roots organisation.

    to that end, yesnef is a standalone organisation, we recognise no over arching higher authority or persons. we have our own constitution which states, we support an independent scotland. it says nothng about the snp, greens lfi wfi or even the eu.

    we select local personalities/bloggers/known activists etc to speak for us and on our behalf. we suggest you do the same

    our merchandice is abley supplied by ayemail and nationalyesregistry, neither of who enforce any political doctrine upon us,
    if your local yes group havent already claimed a starter pack, do so now, only 20 left
    http://www.ayemail.scot/store/?model_number=IK2016
    join natyesreg here
    http://www.ayemail.scot/store/?model_number=IK2016

    The only person who an appoint a yes2 leader and set up yesscot2 is nicola sturgeon. I wouldnt advise her to do so, it would leave us open to the accusation of being yesnp, but if she does, fine by me, but none of our business. yes scotland and blair jenkins didnt do anything for yesnef in indyref1, leaflet, canvas etc, and I doubt any new organisation, yesscot2 etc, in indyref2 will help us either

    there are some holes in our campaign, most notably the absence of any literature to deliver. we intend to make the wbb2 the center of our campaign, why not the wbb1 was the best we had in indyref1.

    that is why this crowd fund is so important. there are 60k voters alone in NEF.(go figure, there are 73 constituencies in scotland) we will canvas and deliver the by hand during indyref2. no letterbox drops.

  445. Liam says:

    Contribution made – hope it helps Stu

  446. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    Aw diddums.Your angry Dave. I live in Scotland Dave boy. You remember, a partner in the Union that constitutes the UK. It is not an absorbed partner Dave. It is supposed to be an equal partner. It does not matter how many voted in England. My concern is how many voted in Scotland(. My country)

    As for you Dave, you are like a cat at Crufts just now. Scratch ,bite and hiss from fear all you want ,but you are at the wrong venue.

  447. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 1.07

    Not angry at all Bob, just sad that people can’t make a valid political case without resorting to lies, deceptions, mis-characterisations, sweeping stereotypes and one-eyed wrong-headedness.

    I note that you didn’t come back to me and show me where I defended the UK’s actions in Iraq? I note that you haven’t withdrawn the comment about me being a “Brexiteer”. Why is that Bob?

    …. so wrong Bob, so wrong!

  448. CameronB Brodie says:

    sensibledave
    You may think yourself clever but do you support the principle of universal human rights? If you support the continuation of the UK, then you stand in opposition to the principle underpinning the rule-of-law as related to human development.

    You cling to an outdated colonial past. Simples

  449. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    Ah mate, a wolf in sheep’s clothing you are. Probably Tory or UKIP. You waste your time here pal. You are the liar in this discussion. Sow doubt and dissent then deny that is what you meant. I have seen this many times.

    Stand up for what you believe in as I do, but don’t crawl around pretending you are something you are not. You hate SNP ,then fine. You hate Europe ,then fine.

    Just don’t embarrass yourself by playing games with words. I think you are probably more able than that.

  450. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    Quote:

    “So Heed, your RIDICULOUS stance that all would have been well had we not gone into Iraq demonstrates a degree of esp( or stupidity) that I am unfamiliar with”

    By logic you say not going in would be stupid. Liars need good memories Dave.

    Not really defending the position of neutrality very well there Davy boy

  451. CameronB Brodie says:

    @Sister Outrider
    I have no idea what your analytical framework might be but I thought these may help improve your conceptualisation of the topic you’re researching.

    https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/cultural-relativism-and-international-politics/book244406

    https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/global-modernity-and-social-contestation/book243295

    https://uk.sagepub.com/en-gb/eur/community-and-identities/book224816

    sensibledave
    Please see above.

  452. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 3.30

    “wolf in Sheep’s clothing! “Sow doubt and dissent”! “You hate SNP ,then fine. You hate Europe ,then fine.”

    …. Haha Bob, you are a joke. Is it as simple as you are just unable to read? I din’t say we should or shouldn’t have done anything – what I did say that is that the choices that any government faces in a given situation are rarely simple.

    Imagine an Independent Scotland with Ms Sturgeon at the helm. Imagine she knows that there are 10,000 innocents trapped on a mountain top facing certain death at the hands of mindless zealots – simply because they are the “wrong” religion. Imagine Ms Sturgeon gets the call asking for help to save their lives.

    What is she going to do Bob? Is she going to send her jets to bomb the f**k out of the murdering hoards and stop the genocide – or is she going to take your line that it is nothing to do with her, or Scotland? I assume that you believe that “crossing the road” and ignoring their plight and condemning (condoning) their certain death is the righteous path eh Bob?

    Whilst the people of Scotland may well want and vote for Independence from the UK at some point, I am damn well sure that they do not want your brand of Independence from responsibility and accountability to their fellow man – wherever they might happen to be. I would argue that not helping people that you know are in big trouble and you know you can help – and then choose not to – is about the worst human trait Bob.

    And, just for the record…. again … I have never voted For the Union and I voted Remain in the recent referendum. Do try and keep up Bob.

  453. Dr Geoff says:

    O/T the Grauniad has suggested that you posted abusive comments regarding Claire Heachan (not her woeful article – specifically against her). I would very much doubt you would do that, so can you please post a clarification?

  454. CameronB Brodie says:

    sensibledave
    I suggest you ground yourself in Hegel before trying any moral sophistry here. Want me to get existential on your ass?

  455. Thepnr says:

    @sensibledave

    I am damn well sure that they do not want your brand of Independence from responsibility and accountability to their fellow man – wherever they might happen to be.

    Where are Tories displaying their responsibility to “their fellow man”? Just in the last couple of days you can read that their plan is to take money away from the poorest disabled and redistribute it to the richest households in the UK.

    The Tories will steal from the mouths of 160,000 of the most disadvantaged people living in the UK and pass that money onto the richest 26,000. That’s what you are supporting Dave, that’s the party you voted for.

    Your ignorance and callousness at how people are treated by the government you helped elect are truly astonishing. Open your eyes, your own self interest blinds you to the reality of what the Tories and their billionaire backers stand for.

    Research shows plans to increase threshold at which tax is paid will overwhelmingly benefit rich families in south-east England

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/feb/28/tory-1bn-inheritance-tax-cut-will-worsen-north-south-divide

    £3.7bn in cuts to disability benefits needed to help cut the deficit, says cabinet minister

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/37bn-pip-cuts-patrick-mcloughlin-lib-dems-lords-a7600151.html

  456. Bill McLean says:

    Thepnr – looks like sensible has left the office!

  457. Bob MACK says:

    @Sensibledave,

    Guess you want to invade N Korea, China, several African and N African countries to prevent murder. Where do you suggest we start then ? How about Saudi first ? We could then work our way east and South. What you think Davey?

  458. Rock says:

    Hamish100,

    “I have asked you before if you prefer the Mail, Express etc. Never got a response.”

    Stop being like Nick Robinson of the BBC.

    I had given you a response (The centrifuge):

    Hamish100,

    “I asked you before — do you by the Mail, Express, Record?”

    Rock,

    “No, none.”

  459. naina tal says:

    Awtiphuk Jist went oot for a teatime pint. When I came back, SD wis aw ower the threed. Having a wee problem trying tae read the guid stuff because aw yoos have been engaging him. Dae yiz no ken that’why he’s here.
    Oor bucket motor had his initials oan the front. Says it aw!

  460. Bob MACK says:

    By the way Sensible Dave lol. Those Yazidis on top of the mountain would never have been there if not for Britain creating the vacuum that allowed isil to grow.

    Anything to add ?

    I doubt Ms Sturgeon would have been stupid enough to send troops to the middle east in the first place

  461. Rock says:

    Bob MACK,

    “We are a partner in a Union.”

    Have we been treated as a partner during the last 310 years?

  462. Bob MACK says:

    No Rock, we have not, but that does not make it any less true. There is a legal document signed in the 18th century to prove it. I know of no document that has superceded that original. Habit, custom, yes, but nothing legal

  463. Stephen McKenzie says:

    £25 in and I will contribute more when I can. Glad to be amongst such good company.

    I see Sensible and Duncan Hovercraft are in a right tizzy..

    Up to &79,460 now!

  464. Masslass says:

    Good Luck with the Fundraiser. Just donated. Enough to get a “Wings badge” Says it ships worldwide. No matter what i did it always showed up … ..no perks …!!!!!!!. No matter, but would really like a “Wings Badge” one of these days.

    Love “Wings over Scotland” read it faithfully here in Massachusetts.

  465. Rock says:

    Bob MACK,

    “No Rock, we have not, but that does not make it any less true. There is a legal document signed in the 18th century to prove it. I know of no document that has superceded that original. Habit, custom, yes, but nothing legal”

    Why have we not taken the matter to court in the last 310 years?

    Why are we hesitating now, with legal experts like Robert Peffers, never seen before in our history, ready to beat anyone in a legal contest?

  466. Thepnr says:

    @Masslass

    Send the Rev an email via the Contact page:

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/contact/

    He has already said he would send the perks to those that couldn’t contribute through Indiegogo and I’m sure he will be sympathetic to your plight.

    Thanks for donating to help those that seek Independence and a different way of doing things when it comes to governance.

  467. Effijy says:

    Rev, Please listen to the 53rd Minute especially of this Emma Burnett show from this morning’s 5 Live Show. Approximately 10.53am.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b08g476t

    SNP’s Stephen Gethins should have walked out at this point.
    Mothing worse than Fascists calling the Scots fascists.

  468. Bob MACK says:

    @Rock,

    I think the answer to that is as simple as it is true. Nobody felt they had the power or indeed finances to do so. Remember Stockholm syndrome affects everybody.
    That is why soldiers have aspects of it included in their training, and we the public have it daily by media. We have accepted it dutifully—– until now that is.

    I see no reason why we could not crowd fund a court case if necessary. That however is for the future in my humble opinion.

  469. Masslass says:

    Thepnr @ 10.31pm

    Thank you , I might do that. Important thing is

    building up that war chest. I can always get a badge next time i visit home.

    Thanks again

  470. sensibledave says:

    Bob Mack 7.08

    You wrote “By the way Sensible Dave lol. Those Yazidis on top of the mountain would never have been there if not for Britain creating the vacuum that allowed isil to grow.

    Anything to add ?

    I doubt Ms Sturgeon would have been stupid enough to send troops to the middle east in the first place”

    Are you dumb or just pretending to be?

    The whole point Thicko, is that a new leader of a new government of any country DOES NOT HAVE THE OPTION OF CHOOSING A NEW STARTING POINT!

    If you are suggesting that Ms Sturgeon would respond to a humanitarian crisis by saying she should not help because she didn’t create the situation – then you are an even bigger fool than I thought – and that is quite an achievement Dumbbob!

  471. stephen macleod says:

    Daily visitor, non poster until now, more than happy to donate.

  472. Rock says:

    Bob MACK,

    “I see no reason why we could not crowd fund a court case if necessary. That however is for the future in my humble opinion.”

    Why in the future?

    We have waited 310 years already.

    The greatest legal expert in Scotland of all time, Robert Peffers, certainly could win this case for us.

    Or do you have your doubts?

  473. Masslass says:

    Thepnr

    Thank you, I appreciate the thought, I want all the money I donated to go for the Independence movement. One day I will get a “Wings badge” and that will be when I come home and celebrate Scotland being Independent.



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