This is the party
Posted on
October 01, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
David Cameron’s speech to the Conservative conference today:
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Ahahaha…Class! Can’t believe I missed it when it was on live this morning! I’m putting this in a loop! 🙂
Brilliant!
I would say though that be they Blue Tories or Red Tories – they’re all the same to me.
Apparently Cameron has previous for using the ‘F’ word.
Superb. Well done Cassetteboy.
The scary thing is, if you gave Cameron a truth pill, this is exactly what he would actually say.
Will it make the charts?
Will it make the charts?
Many a true word spoken in jest
Is that the new Tory PPB?
Most honest thing to come out of the Conferences, I’m sharing!
For the first time
I believe everything Dodgy Dave just said !
Really clever piece of writing, editing and presentation.
A summary of Dave’s key messages since the referendum result:
If you are a Tory you are Better Off Together
If you are a Labour Party North British member, you have been used as a front for the Tories.
If you are a Lib Dem, you have been used as a front for the Tories.
If you are one of the Jocks that believed the Vow and Gordon Brown and then decided to vote NO, Ha ha ha ha, gotcha again!
If you are Gordon Brown or Alistair Darling, your reward in the Lords awaits in 2015.
If you are one of the 45%, we hear you, we hear you, but we are ignoring you.
The Scottish Voters will pass their judgement very soon.
The referendum result is indeed the start of the end game for the UK. Roll on Indy Ref 2!
I feel good!
I knew that I should. Pure class.
HAHAHA, brilliant!! 🙂
then there is this very revealing snippet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFW2_QmSV5g much more than fraudian slip.
David Cameron – ‘This Is Who We Resent’
(from tom prides blog today)
Hardcore and very well done.
Go on Labour, you know you want to be tougher than the Bullingdon boys, when it comes to squeezing the indolent of the something for nothing culture. Hasn’t JL commented to such effect?
http://www.poverty.ac.uk/tags/wealth
Unfortunately it’s true!
Pure class and very true to word, bet deep down he means every word
Unfortunately 55% of our fellow Scots have fallen for their pish.
They who voted No know it too going by the conversations I have had recently.
This is not a time to relax but a time to fight back. We keep up the momentum. First stop, putting Labour to the sword, and as a supporter of Labour for 40 years I want my own back.
Priority, lets punish Labour in May next year.
Brilliant!
Ha, was fair buckled. I can’t help but feel his speech today was pretty much everything we were guaranteed with Independence that he fought against.
The rich out of touch Eton Bullingdon boy Cameron hasn’t had a real job in his life. He was gifted his public relations job at Carlton by his mother in law. He is also on record as being on of the worst offenders and scroungers of taxpayers money over his MPs expenses.
MPs’ expenses list reveals David Cameron ‘used the system’ to claim £21,000 in a year to pay his mortgage
David Cameron’s mortgage costs taxpayers £21,000 a year.
The first published breakdown of MPs’ expenses also showed that Gordon Brown charged £15,000 to fit out his London flat for his family.
The Prime Minister claimed £2,300 for food and £4,980 for cleaning.
He and Tony Blair claimed for their television licences, Sir Menzies Campbell put in for laundry costs and John Prescott charged for £4,000 worth of food in one year – £80 a week.
The average household spends £2,444 a year.
https://archive.today/1R7QZ
Rolls off the tongue smooth as silk….
“We are the party of the motherf*ckers.” Love it.
Channel 4 News Just Called The Prime Minister Evil In A Rather Unfortunate Tweet
DM has got May 2015 eXit Factor…yo
So we no longer need to display our Road Tax Disc. Big mistake, partner and I both have oldish cars. Next time we could both purchase same vehicles eg VW Golfs 2010.
I then take partners log book to get replacement number plates. Both vehicles now have same Reg Number ( we are off the beaten track so no one will see them side by side.) From then on only need to purchase a Tax Disc for one vehicle as other will be covered automatically.
Not that we would of course.
@ John Young
That might work until someone spotted that you had recently purchased a car and made a SORN declaration for it almost immediately!
Really hilarious conservative and unionist broadcast on tv right now. Talk about delusional.
crazycat good point, thanks, but if it was an oldish car I don’t think a SORN declaration would be followed up however I am quite disappointed with the way my mind works.
Lets hope the winter is a mild one.
http://rt.com/uk/192276-uk-report-heat-winter/
over 30000 views now!
🙂
A.N.Surgent says:
1 October, 2014 at 7:09 pm
Lets hope the winter is a mild one.
http://rt.com/uk/192276-uk-report-heat-winter/
===============================
For the sake of the YES voters among them yes I hope its a mild winter. As far as those who voted NO, to hell with them.
Just another point. Cameron today announced pensions to go up to £142 pw but you will have to wait a little longer to collect it. In an independent Scotland pension would have been £160 pw paid at 65.
I am doing my best to avoid hearing Cameron say anything at all, ever, and that goes for his cronies too – not an easy matter when the entire MSM is geared up to loudhail his every fart and belch; and then I visit Wings for some refreshment and there is the cretin again.
James Caithness
I wonder if all thats happened since the 18th is sinking in with any of them.
Aaargghh, living in the past by half an hour when I post, tried 3 browsers and all the same. Is this what they call a DOS attack.
Petition for Broon to go feck himself sitting at 10,065 signatures!!
Not even a day old!
But the IFS said there is a big black hole with these new tax cuts on top of the one that is already there. Can’t even be offset by volatile oil (divide by 60 million and not 5 million peeps). UK must really now be too wee, too poor and too stupid to break away from EU. How will they get away with this? Surely banks and big business will come out and tell us of the risks of this lunacy. Where is a hot tub time machine when you need one?
The Vows , Devo-Max, Secure Fiscal Autonomy etc have created a whole new set of possibilities and opportunities.
What’s at issue is THE PATH to Independence.
The straight path clearly didn’t work.
The same path tried again is highly unlikely to win.
Independence via Secure Fiscal Autonomy is a far far better bet.
A.N.Surgent says:Aaargghh
A.N. when my name and email address are present ALREADY in the required spaces, then appearance is instant.
If I have to type them in before comment, it takes ages before it appears.
Why I don’t know, sorry, although i suspect it’s a WordPress log in issue
@manandboy
the Vows, Devo-Max, Secure Fiscal Autonomy etc have created a whole set of new possibilities and opportunities.
I have to say that given all the information in the WBB and the posts on here, for you to think that any of the above is more than a pile of crap indicates a somewhat shaky grasp of reality. None of it will be allowed to happen, and in any case why should we accept half a loaf instead of the whole bakery?
To be fair to David Cameron, it’s hard *not* to use your networks for a leg up when you are as well connected as he is.
Kind of shows up all the other toffee nosed twits as shirkers – if someone as unqualified and underpowered as David Cameron can be PM, what’s the rest of the aristocracy’s excuse?
Craig P
Fiddling the books.
manandboy
Thats exactly the same thing as happening to me, was fine up until a few days ago. Its frustrating as f*ck. 🙁
Good piece from Brian Taylor of all people.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29450416
You can see how the Red and Blue Tories could conspire to maximise undermining any Scottish government at Holyrood with the current load of crap proposed on offer.
Hopefully the SNP will push for FFA with full control of revenues – not just a subset of taxes.
You shake hands with the devil and you won’t get it back. You shake hands with a Tory and you’ll have to pay through the nose to get it back. While the blue Tories are a minority here in Scotland, the red Tories rule. If there is any hope of getting independence, these red Tories need to be made a minority as well like their blue counterparts.
DevoMax / FFA do IMHO offer a possible, if slightly longer route to full independence.
I just don’t believe there is a snowball in Hell’s chance of that being delivered!
I also sense that there are some in the Unionist camp who appreciate how badly things will go wrong for them if what they offer falls far short! Others, deep in the London bubble, think the Scots are out of the way and it can be business as usual.
Our mission should be to make life as difficult as possible for all shades of Unionist right now. We have not gone away!
Cassetteboys rap BRILLIANT.
I have been away from the internet for most of last week,
so this has maybe been said already
We have to get the message across to the I reckon 30% who were unsure because of the lies from the Bitter together campaign. Just keep telling them the facts not the garbage they get from the state run tv.
This website will be a blessing come the next election.
Just remember to the bitter together campaign, it doesn’t matter how many times you polish a TURD at the end of the day its still a TURD. Gary
Talking of speeches, I don’t think anyone’s posted the link to Ruthie baby. Comedy gold!
http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/09/ruth-time-reset-scotland/
YouGov poll of Scottish voting intentions for general election:
SNP 43%
Labour 23%
Conservative 17%
Green 5%
UKIP 5%
Lib dem 5%
Live at Ref TV – enjoying this conversation with Prof John Robertson
http://www.referendumtv.net/reftv-in-conversation-with-professor-john-robertson/
OT
Really good article over at Bella Caledonia:
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/10/01/the-trouble-with-scotlandis-that-its-full-of-scots/
Worth a read and interesting point on the need for people to be able to detect and understand the bias in the media, rather than try to eradicate all bias media from society.
Pretty cracking stuff from a 19yr old author.
@Robert Louis & Indyref2:
I made a detailed reply to you both at 1 October, 2014 at 8:40 pm in the previous thread, “The End of the Beginning”, on why Westminster has no legal authority for some of the assumptions of sovereignty they have made since the Treaty of Union was signed.
I had to go out on an urgent matter so sorry about the delay.
Didn’t listen to the speech, but a French newspaper tonight says Cameron intends to revoke the law enforcing the authority of the European court for human rights in Britain?
But as Dave would say, “we’re better together, we’re all mother f***ing in it together”…
It is the nature of politics to deliver on promises without actually devolving the power needed for them to succeed. The interest in Scotland is purely financial bolstering the pound to stop the deficit going wild.
The referendum was turned into party politics even before the vote thus moving the argument away from the simple yes or no. Once the politicians have finished playing with it, we will be left wanting with our only recourse being to punish those responsible.
Received 2 begging emails from labour this evening. Desperate…
Nana Smith,
If David Cameron’s conference speech this morning made you as angry as it made me, try this:
We have a target list of Tory MPs we need to beat at the next election.
Want to know how many of them *you* and your friends could kick out?
If you’re on Facebook, we can analyse your friend network to tell you how much political power you have:
(Don’t worry — we won’t post anything to your Facebook wall)
Enjoy,
Gloria
Gloria De Piero
Shadow Minister for Women and Equalities
Nana Smith,
You don’t have to look far back to see the lasting damage a Conservative Prime Minister can do to our country given a decade in power.
We can’t let history repeat itself. And if we don’t stop the Tories, who will?
Nana Smith — donate now to help us beat David Cameron in 2015. Whatever you can afford:
DONATE £5
DONATE £10
DONATE £15
DONATE £20
Or another amount
David Cameron said in his speech today that there’s a real choice at this election. Too right there is.
It’s a choice between the party that built the NHS, that fought for and protected it for generations to come — and the party that, once again, is running it into the ground.
It’s a choice between a Prime Minister who bows to the every demand of his small circle of millionaire donors — and a Prime Minister who will stand up for the rest of us.
It’s a choice between fairness, compassion, generosity of spirit — and, well… the worldview that gave us the bedroom tax.
I don’t need to persuade you what the right choice for Britain is. But what I do need to ask is that you help us show other people just what is at stake at this election.
Chip in to our election campaign now, and help us beat the Tories:
DONATE £5
DONATE £10
DONATE £15
DONATE £20
Or another amount
Thank you
Iain
Nana
Subset of a UK poll. Nevertheless!
http://cdn.yougov.com/cumulus_uploads/document/yoh7f4x8x5/YG-Archive-Pol-Sun-results-300914.pdf
It is the nature of politics to deliver on promises without delivering substance that would deliver success. Tax raising powers would have to be full to deliver power to Scotland to create the society we wish for and deserve.
Westminster will not have any problem making the North of England suffer provided the South and London are unaffected. I suspect that when the dust settles Scotland will be disappointed and our only recourse will be to make those responsible suffer as a lesson to future wrecker’s. I have now only faith in politicians void of Westminster connection bar a few who aspire to delivering the independence that will permit our culture and values to prevail.
There seeems to be a lot of confusion between what the 3 unionist parties offered back in June or so, which is a small pile of birds droppings best described as devo-plus-notalot, and Devo-Max which encompasses FFA – Full Fiscal Autonomy. There’s an article which describes it a bit, though the popularity of Devo-max is a lot more than last Feb when the article was written:
http://www.thinkscotland.org/thinkpolitics/articles.html?read_full=12536
Basically speaking, without the VOW and Broon, all that could be expected to be delivered is the lowest common denominator of devo-plus-notalot, i.e. devo-plus-evenless – this described in WoS some time ago,
What Stugeon & Co (and NNS) are pushing is that Broon and the VOW and Darling (with the help of auntie Beeb) have introduced full-blown Devo-Max – i.e. FFA, but also (I think) more than FFA, as there would have to be a lot of regulatory and other powers devolved too, to achieve Devo-Max “just short of Federalism”.
devo-plu-b-all is something none of us would want to support for one second, it’s costly with absolutely no benefit. Devo-Max that’s been put on the table by Broon and his Westminster buddies is, in my opinion, very valuable, will cost a bit, but deliver far more to the Scottish Government exchequer – plus being a big step on the way to Independence, I would say, an inevitable outcome of Devo-Max / FFA.
Brilliant.
Yep, no doubt about it: we’ve taken off our boxing gloves and it’s going to be all bare knuckle stuff from now on till we get our separate Scottish Passports.
@Now’s the Hour says: 1 October, 2014 at 8:37 pm:
“Talking of speeches, I don’t think anyone’s posted the link to Ruthie baby. Comedy gold!”
Well I suppose a girl can dream – and so can a wee daft Action Krankie!
Just a test to see if my post registers. One today has disappeared.
Just a test to see if my post registers. One today has disappeared.
Juan P: Really good article over at Bella Caledonia:
It’s verbal diarrhea – written by a smarmy kid too clever by half. Arrogance pours out of every paragraph. No thanks.
It sums up all that is good and bad about Bella – strong essays mixed with juvenalia, but other than the general theme of Scotland’s independence, no specific, consistent editorial line evident.
Juan P: Really good article over at Bella Caledonia:
It’s verbal diarrhea – written by a smarmy kid too clever by half. Arrogance pours out of every paragraph. No thanks.
It sums up all that is good and bad about Bella – strong essays mixed with juvenalia, but other than the general theme of Scotland’s independence, no specific, consistent editorial line evident.
40 minutes of light relief from Frankie Boyle.Enjoy.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0276z6t/frankie-boyles-referendum-autopsy
It’s early days yet but I can see the Red Tories getting stuffed by the Blue Tories in England at the GE. So a referendum on EU will happen. I doubt that the EU will engage in the same game plan as Westminster did with Scotland so referendum II may be on the cards. Lets hope that by then we have grown a pair.
@Grouse Beater
Each to their own.
I read it again and it is a bit sanctimonious in parts but there were, for me anyway, some interesting points made about how we deal with media bias.
@Grouse Beater
Do you have a piece of your own prose to which us mere inferiors could aspire to?
I must admit that I find your comment a tad unfair. Surely even the smarmy & juvenile, as well as the meek, should have an opportunity to express their views?
19 years old and wanting to be engaged in the process…more power to his fledgling pen / keyboard.
Or is self expression just reserved for the elite and those that use the word ‘Fuck’?
Scotpop has a poll of recent polls, which give SNP 39.9%, Lab 30.3%, Con 15.6 LibDem 6.8%. Putting them for GE2105 into electoral calculus gives NAT 37 seats, Lab 19, Con 2, Lib 1. The key thing will be to get it into the electorate that a tactical vote to keep out Tories is no longer to vote Labour, bu to vote Scot Nat – or Alliance.
SNP membership trebled to over 75,000.
So now the Herald and Scotsman are laying off journalist ( 16 staff at the Herald ) and the sub-editing work will, in future, be done outside Scotland.
Wonder what the anti-independence gang at the Herald think of that. Chickens and roosts come to mind.
@ Nana n Derrick
Polling intentions seem to have improved for the SNP even since last week! If this is sustained then they’ll be the only party worth voting for. Will feed them into Electoral Calculus and see what comes out. This may be why the Labour emails are multiplying thick and fast!
@marcia
Thanks for the link. I was wondering what had happened to referendum TV.
@yesindyref2
Yes, and in line with Brian Taylor article I referred to earlier you could see how anything but FFA (with all revenues) will just be manipulated by Westminster to bring down any SNP administration at any cost.
If Nicola goes into next GE supporting some heap of cutback devo crap I will be sorely disappointed.
I’m sure the Tory game will be to give us all tax (so we can increase it), they will then cut tax and also take opportunity to Cut Barnett (but retain it). When we complain they will say but you control your taxes – get on with it…or some deviant variant thereof…
Absolutely unreal. This must have taken ages. How do we get this to no 1 in the charts
Left hand side 2010 seats. Right hand side with new voting intentions figures fed into Electoral Calculus.
LAB 38 / 7
LIB 8 / 1
NAT 6 / 42
CON 0 / 2
alistair
From their media releases, it looks like the SNP are up to the Smith, and should make sure it’s a win whatever it concludes – and whatever gets implemented. I live in faith!
Fireproofjim
Someone – McColl or Hunter – should buy out the Herald, tie up with local papers or even start small circulation advertising almost hobby ones. Print and online.
If the Herald is laying off, I wonder what will happen to their promise to chase up on “substantial more powers” as a reason for backing NO. Ah well.
Get ready to boak. “How the campaign was won” now on.
O/T
Last night I removed the large YES badge from a jacket and pinned it to the front of my wooley hat. I moved the the two smaller badges one on either side of the bigger badge on the hat. I had not been out much since referendum night as I had a wee accident and hurt a muscle in my shoulder and neck. So I set out for the village with the wee dog to pick up my pension and buy a few items of grocery.
I had hardly gone 100yds when I was stopped by a stranger who began, “I like your badges”, and we had a wee conversation about independence. Another couple of hundred yds and I met another dog walker and again the badges started a political conversation and so it went on.
It has been like that all day. Anyone else getting this message that Scots seem to be even more into Scottish politics than even before the referendum?
@galamcennalath 8:31pm
My thoughts entirely, keep them off balance and Rumel them up at every chance.
I think this petition is better than the one Stuart posted yesterday.
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-honour-their-vow-made-before-the-independence-referendum-to-devolve-powers-to-the-scottish-parliament
We, the undersigned, call on the Labour party, together with their Better Together allies the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, to commit to devolving all powers with the exception of Foreign Affairs and Defence. This commitment to be enforced through legislation prior to the 2015 May General Election.
So long as Scotland remains in the Union, these powers to remain under the control of the Scottish Parliament.
A failure to honour their pledge made to the Scottish people will be deemed a breach of contract and render the independence referendum result null and void.”
@Grouse Beater – I wasn’t too keen on the Bella article either but it was written by a 19yr old who is probably a bit optimistic.
My comment was I think the 55% need to feel shame because they need to realise what shit they’ve dumped on the rest of us
@Robert Peffers –
I was asked by a close relative (a No voter) earlier this evening if I’d yet removed the Yes stickers from my car. When I said ‘No’, it was suggested that I might want to hang on to them as a ‘memento’.
It was all well-meaning, albeit nauseatingly patronising and ignorant in equal measure. What these people don’t appear to realise is that those stickers, along with badges, wrist-bands etc, are not memorabilia – they represent unfinished business.
re badges, I’ve created a little design I’ll probably get made into a badge, and I have a full flag shaped one that I’ll get on a mug for work (after someone removed the yes rubber grip to my travel mug thingy). Have a look here if anyone likes it (I’m no professional so no laughing please).
@Grouse Beater
Always enjoy reading your posts, but c’mon… cut the young dude on Bella a break. You don’t need to agree with everything in an essay to nevertheless find it thought-provoking. I certainly couldn’t have penned something like that at age 19.
You know we should work away quietly until the election.
disappearing post? Link to badge design http://i58.tinypic.com/2e2nklj.jpg
i is a greedy mofo suckers
Alex Clark
Just what we needed – the BBC to give us their analysis of the referendum.
It amazes me how they deal with BBC bias – it has to frame criticism in terms of the BBC ‘allegedly’ not getting it right all the time.
What they will never accept is that for the vast majority of Yes voters – the majority of 45% of the population believed the BBC were actively campaigning on behalf of the British establishment, just as big business, the banks and foreign governments were.
Amazing rewriting of history… enough for me.
Don’t know how you see this playing out mate –
forget petitions- if the Westminster Parties continue down the road they are going and the tories continue trying to destroy the poor and cut taxes for the rich they’ll be an uprising sooner or later.
Interesting times. I just hope we can free this country from this bloodsucking cabal before too much damage is done.
Good news the Herald and Scotsman groups are cutting jobs.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-29452062
@Tam Jardine
I couldn’t stand it for more than 10 minutes. It’s the last straw for me. Finally I will cancel my TV license, my wife likes the telly but no more. I’m sure I can get her on board now.
I don’t even watch telly at all, it is but a noise in the background. For the missus sake Netflix and Lovefilm here we come.
“How the campaign was won”
Strange program, worth watching though. I put it in the background as I wasn’t sure I could face it, but there’s an overriding sense of something I can’t put my finger on.
I also think when you’re campaigning, you often don’t question whether what you’re campaigning for is the right thing – or the wrong thing. On the YES side we don’t have that problem as we didn’t get what we wanted.
But now it’s all over, I wonder if the 55% who got what they wanted, even without subsequent events, aren’t now asking anyway “did I get what I really wanted?”. It seemed to me there was almost a sadness even from some of the Unionists on the program. But hey, I’m an optimist!
Two emails tonight, one from the local SNP, and the other from the local YES. So that saves me the time hunting YES out to see if they still exist and let them know it goes on – they do exist and are meeting up very soon. I’ll be there. First YES meeting for me, I stayed out and did my own thing.
The daily Record has just said GB’s petition has reached 100,000 signatures, this is despite twitter telling them constantly that it has been lifted from 38 degrees with 80,000 signatures already on it – they are just ignoring what lots of people are telling them.
It is so frustrating
Marcia posted a link to the John Robertson interview on Referendum TV and it was a hugely enjoyable discussion of media bias, the demonisation of Alex Salmond, the nasty interviewing techniques of GMS etc, the ideas of Naom Chomsky and the joys of the YES campaign and how optimistic he is for the future. Great antidote to BBBC. It’s an hour long but worth it.
http://www.referendumtv.net/reftv-in-conversation-with-professor-john-robertson/
@liz
38 degrees should demand a retraction of that DR statement. I emailed them earlier once I realised what had happened. No response as yet. This type of thing will seriously damage their credibility. Everything GB says needs to have a retraction published by whichever organisation he is compromising. Hospital transplants, pensions, petitions and Vows.
@Capella – I don’t know who this company belongs to but I just had a look at their website and they are actively supporting the daily Record vow and requesting more signatures.
If that is the case I will never sign any of their petitions again
Putting in the part small sample (200?) results from Yougov, I get a different value from electoral calculus which shows Margaret Curran losing her seat and the SNP on 47 seats.
http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/userpoll_scot.html?CON=17&LAB=23&LIB=5&NAT=43®ion=AllScotland&boundary=2010&seat=All+Scotland+seats+majority-sorted
Alan Little, BBC Special Correspondent on that program at the end:
“I wonder what will bind future generations of Scottish people into the Union that’s positive because I think an awful lot of people, an awful lot of the 55% who voted NO, voted essentially out of fearfulness, out of fear of the alternative, rather than a sense of positive ownership of this joint project”.
Indeed.
@liz me neither. I’ve just emailed them again asking for a retraction. If no response next email is to unsubscribe. I get more than enough requests for petitions as it is!
Robert Peffers
I would like to say thank you for your posts,
especially the ones re the constitution.
You have given me much to think about, so thanks and keep em coming. Mair power tae you an yer wee dug lol
Acknowledgement from 38 Degrees
Hello,
Thanks for taking the time to send us feedback, we really appreciate it. We read every email and will do our best to get back to you –
“but at busy times we may not be able to”
Face it, 38 degrees are thrilled to bits by the attention. What, you expect an internet petition site, whose business plan is to suck up the energy of campaigning people so that it can harvest their contact details, to object to what Brown has done?
The only petitions worth getting involved in are the ones on the official government sites – Westminster and Holyrood. There is a proper chain of action for note to be taken of these if they gain significant support. Internet petition sites are pointless.
It says a lot about Brown that he bypassed his own House of Commons petition site, the proper place for such a petition, and latched on to one run by a commercial US company.
But don’t expect said commercial US company to be anything but deeply grateful for the free publicity.
Morag,
Sorry if this has already been said but many many moons ago , there was a petition on 38 degrees regarding funny enough BBC Scotland bias. At the time it was the petition with the most signatures by a country mile and do you know what happened – zip !
They chose please stop making comments about cheese makers or something similar .
It’ll be interesting to see if they touch this but more importantly it will be interesting to see how far BBC Scotland/ STV are prepared to stretch their credibility by reporting a 100,000 signatures.
It would make me smile if they’re reporting this guff while meanwhile trending on Twitter was , Yes Campaign petition reaches 100,000 .
Go on Jackie , we all enjoy a good laugh
OT
Familiarize the Scotland act 1998
http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2014/10/acknowledge-it-now.html?spref=tw
@ Morag
38 degrees is not a US commercial company (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Degrees); neither is it purely an on-line petition site. Change.org fits that description better.
Given the number of petitions on the go at present, hosted by both these organizations, it is not hard to confuse them, and I certainly think 38 degrees have made a mistake – and I’ve told them so.
Nevertheless, some of their other campaigns have had some success, more success in fact than a number of government petitions which have only led to pointless debates at Westminster and no action.
crazycat
As I understood it when I was following the 2012 Health Act, 38degrees actually organise bodies, posters and billboards to support some campaigns, and yes, it’s not commercial, it’s member based. They also lobby politicians.
It would be very disappointing if they lent themselves to a fraud in fact probably terminally so, especially with their membership in Scotland. I too emailed them, and await a reply. Meanwhile Broon is being given credit for all 100,000 signatures by the totally complicit media.
Mmm, if 38degrees don’t answer within another 48 hours say, perhaps we should set up a new petition on 38degrees, asking 38degrees to reveal if that petition was set up on behalf of Gordon Brown or the Labour Party, and if not, to reveal why they intend handing the petition over to Gordon Brown.
They would of course send out the invite to sign that petition to all their members.
test
Large post lost
grrrr
Vote every Unionist politician out. Have another Referendum.
@James Caithness says:1 October, 2014 at 11:19 pm:
“You know we should work away quietly until the election”
Nah! Let’s all work away VERY LOUDLY until the election.
You know when you are not living in a democracy when democratic protests abroad is reported ad nauseum whilst democratic protest at home is ignored (unreported) the numbers played down to appear a lunatic fringe and the protectors demonised as abusive fascists.
And I’m not just talking about all the PQ demos.
@James Caithness says: 1 October, 2014 at 11:19 pm:
“You know we should work away quietly until the election”
Hell mend them, I hope their fellow churnalists all come out in support in an all out strike in support of their brothers & sisters and thus, as we say in Scotland, “Gies aa peace”.
@liz says:1 October, 2014 at 11:56 pm:
“… they are just ignoring what lots of people are telling them.”
So just the usual then?
@liz says: 2 October, 2014 at 12:07 am:
“I don’t know who this company belongs to but I just had a look at their website and they are actively supporting the daily Record vow and requesting more signatures.
If that is the case I will never sign any of their petitions again”
How about starting a petition to tell the petition company to get lost?
38 degrees certainly campaigned on TTIP. I was sent a pack of publicity materials to coincide with a day of street protests with organised local groups. So I do think they are genuine but, on this occasion, highjacked. A petition to publicise Gordon Brown’s duplicity is a good idea if they don’t correct this publicly themselves.
To any journalist out there, one question, why not choose another career path ?
Because if its what you always wanted to do then why are you not doing it? And if your boss is not allowing you to do it then what is the NUJ doing about it? And if you have a concience how do you sleep at night? Thank God for Derek Bateman. The rest of you should be ashamed.
Scuffles in Catalonia in protests against Spanish Court banning referendum.
http://rt.com/news/192056-catalonia-protest-referendum-independence/
Sort of off topic but still relevant
Take a look at: http://anotherangryvoice.blogspot.co.uk/
This caught my eye.
The Tory economic spokeswoman Claire Perry even went as far as claiming that the debt and the deficit “are the same thing” in a BBC radio interview! No wonder the economy crashed and has suffered 0% growth for seven long years if Tory economic spokespeople who used to work in the financial sector are so economically illiterate that they don’t know the difference between a debt and a deficit.
FYI from Wiki – Claire Louise Perry is a Conservative Member of Parliament for Devizes, elected in the 2010 general election. Perry worked in banking and finance for Bank of America, McKinsey & Company and Credit Suisse.
The metaphor about Foxes and hen-houses comes to mind.
@Smithie says: 2 October, 2014 at 12:33 am:
“I would like to say thank you for your posts,
especially the ones re the constitution.
You have given me much to think about, so thanks and keep em coming. Mair power tae you an yer wee dug lol”
Thank you, Smithie, I think much of the problem with the Scottish people who blindly follow the unionist mantra do so because they do not know how Scotland got into the United Kingdom in the first place. It has been a very long time since I was at school and it came as a great shock to me that Scottish history was not being taught in our schools.
I find the fact that shocks many people is that William Patterson, who began the Bank of England and started the Darien Expedition, was a close friend of Daniel Defoe who was a known English spy in Scotland. The whole Treaty of Union was, and still is, a scam by the Kingdom of England.
A scam that began a long time before the Union of the Crowns and, as the referendum proves, has not yet ended. No wonder the Unionist parties at Holyrood don’t want to teach Scottish history in Scotland’s schools.
@Cappella
The daily record head office is in america, apparently sits right next door to the CIA HQ. 38degrees head office America. Bit of back scratching. I think they know this is not going away. Think we have caused a bit of a ripple. Maybe all those butterfly wings.
@Molly says:
Sorry if this has already been said but many many moons ago , there was a petition on 38 degrees regarding funny enough BBC Scotland bias. At the time it was the petition with the most signatures by a country mile and do you know what happened – zip !
As they couldn’t justify why they wouldn’t run I unsubscribed and told them they are only picking their own personal preferences in which ones to run. Using the public in this way is immoral IMO.
@Molly says:
Sorry if this has already been said but many many moons ago , there was a petition on 38 degrees regarding funny enough BBC Scotland bias. At the time it was the petition with the most signatures by a country mile and do you know what happened – zip !
As they couldn’t justify why they wouldn’t run I unsubscribed and told them they are only picking their own personal preferences in which ones to run. Using the public in this way is immoral IMO.
@Golfnut
So is Wikipedia wrong in calling it a British organisation?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/38_Degrees#Criticism
Golnut
That is Gannet, the parent company of The Herald, USA Today and numerous local radio and tv Franchises throughout the US.
The DR is part of the Mirror Group.
@Golfnut
And Companies House?
http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk//compdetails
@ Robert Peffers
If that is the case I will never sign any of their petitions again”
How about starting a petition to tell the petition company to get lost?
This is getting all Marx Brothers.
Horse Feathers!
About 6 or so years ago some of us organised a 38 Degrees petition against BBC bias.
Despite garnering loads of signatures 38 Degrees did sweet F A
It is a waste of time perhaps dreamed up by the same pot boilers who dreamed up the 10 Downing Street Petition website.
Just ther to give the illusion of peoples’ democracy.
A sham. Don’t fall for it.
And still the point seems to be missed. The petition launched on the 19th of September was signed within days by nearly 70000 yessers to put pressure on Westminster to keep the pledges made. Could it have been worded better? Undoubtedly.
It was a petition setup immediately after the vote to try and ensure that the no politicians were held to their word.
That Brown has chosen to attach himself to this dissolves his (albeit nonexistent) credibility as it was aimed at holding him to account.
Was it futile? Of course, but it gave some vent to growing anger at the lies and false promises of the no camp. It also has highlighted the duplicity and baseness of the DR and the rest of the media.
38 degrees must immediately distance themselves from Brown and the Daily Record. I will keep at them to do so.
BTP
No need for that. 🙂
On BBC Scotland GMS this morning, they had the Labour guy McTernan on the show along with some Tory mouthpiece.
The topic was the 2015 General Election.
BBC Scotland seem to be setting their stall out as to how they are going to present the GE to the Scottish public.
It is either going to be a vote for the Tories or a vote for Labour. The SNP or any other Party never got a mention.
Gary Robertson even had the cheek to say to the Tory guy that UKIP would tear the Tory Party apart in England, with absolutely no mention of the YES vote tearing the Labour Party in Scotland apart.
I had to highlight this two Party view that BBC Scotland seem to be taking, because in reminds me of the way they manipulated the Referendum campaign and so, we have to monitor it very closely indeed.
Don’t let BBC Scotland set the agenda EVER AGAIN.
Robert Peffers says:
1 October, 2014 at 10:50 pm
O/T
Last night I removed the large YES badge from a jacket and pinned it to the front of my wooley hat. I moved the the two smaller badges one on either side of the bigger badge on the hat. I had not been out much since referendum night as I had a wee accident and hurt a muscle in my shoulder and neck. So I set out for the village with the wee dog to pick up my pension and buy a few items of grocery.
I had hardly gone 100yds when I was stopped by a stranger who began, “I like your badges”, and we had a wee conversation about independence. Another couple of hundred yds and I met another dog walker and again the badges started a political conversation and so it went on.
It has been like that all day. Anyone else getting this message that Scots seem to be even more into Scottish politics than even before the referendum?
I bumped into a couple of elderly ladies in a coffee shop he other day, one of whom was sporting her wee Yes badge. I gave them a wee smile and a nod and next thing we were discussing the campaign and the continuing fight. As we parted, her friend said, ‘This is only the beginning!’. We are definitely not going to go away.
Like many others, I have been bombarded with personalised emails from Labour and no matter how rude my replies they keep on coming.
I can think of only one time when i contacted Labour and that was when I was encouraged to do so in support of a 38degrees campaign.
Hmmmmm
The next poll which actually matters is the 2015 Westminster election. Then, we can send a message they can’t ignore! Our argument has always been a Tory government does not have a mandate to rule. In 2015 if we can banish enough Labour MPs from Scotland then we can say any Unionist party government in London has no mandate to rule.
Part of the road to success in 2015 is to hammer home a message that all Unionists are reneging, to a lesser or greater extent, on the promises which allowed them to win the referendum. Every No voter who was swayed by the promises has to see clearly that they were duped.
The number are there to be rallied. The trick will be to prevent Scots doing as they always do and tactically vote Labour for London. Enough need to be shown how they have been fooled.
In March Gordon Brown had a 6 point plan
http://labourlist.org/2014/03/gordon-brown-unveils-6-point-plan-for-scotland-and-britain/
His petition is a 14 point plan
A bakers dozen + 2
By xmas it will be NO win NO fee Lawyers4you.co.uk
A thing of beauty…
For once an honest Conservative MP
@caz-m
Aye, amidst the welter of English football coverage and mentions of conferences in London which passes for ‘Scottish’ reportage, BBC Scotland are back in full binary Tory/Labour mode eight months out from the GE. You could not have had a clearer signal of intent from them than GMS this morning, where Scotland’s largest party (and currently the UK’s third largest party and growing) was excluded entirely from the discussion and the narrative.
We do face a huge difficulty here. The BBC will hammer home the message on all of their platforms over the coming months that the SNP is an irrelevance in the GE, while maintaining a narrative that UKIP is entirely relevant. It will be very hard for some Labour voters who came over to Yes on the 18th to resist this propaganda bombardment.
Still, if Blair Jenkins thinks this is objective coverage that’s good enough for me..
Robert Peffers says:
2 October, 2014 at 7:41 am
@James Caithness says:1 October, 2014 at 11:19 pm:
“You know we should work away quietly until the election”
Nah! Let’s all work away VERY LOUDLY until the election.
=================================================
Okay Robert I’ve read your posts with great interest over the last few months and admit you are more atune to the constitution and political scene than I am.
I will also be happy to bow to that knowledge.
However I will explain what I meant when I said work quietly.
45% of us against 55%. I keep feeling that our 45% won’t change their mind on the lead up to the GE, and the evidence is there for all to see with the indy parties enjoying a huge increase in their memberships.
However the 55% voted NO on the 18th against independence. It is them I don’t want to alert about if we were to elect 50 independence MPs we have another shot at independence. I fear they would then vote for their usual Slab, LibDems, Tories if they think independence could be on the cards.
Robert, I hope you can ease my fears about this. If you can I will gladly roar from the rooftops.
The next poll that matters is actually the 2 by elections in England next week.
Hey’s and Middleton and Clacton.
If UKIP wins them both, the focus of the Tories and Labour will turn to defeating them, particularly Cameron. Scottish issues will be sidelined as the westminster parties realign to defeate Farage.
Tories will be more desperate to force through Engish only votes in Westminster as it takes 42 Labour MPs out of the equation. Labour would be forced further to right.
Sad to say, but the future of Scotland could be determined by Farage.
@galamcennalath 9.19am
“The numbers are there to be rallied. The trick will be to prevent Scots doing as they always do and tactically vote Labour for London. Enough need to be shown how they have been fooled.”
That is exactly the point I was making about BBC Scotland, trying to portray the 2015 GE as a vote for Labour will save us from Tory rule.
We need to get this message out, that Labour are the real bad guys in this charade, they are in it to save their own asses and their own comfortable lifestyles, while the rest of us can go f**k ourselves.
Vote these Scottish Labour parasites out in 2015.
There are some extremely strange people in Scotland that would rather haveTory/Unionist misrule in Scotland than rule themselves. Never trust a Tory/Unionist.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/labour-chief-quits-amid-vote-fallout.25484429
Hey friends – am in my car so am listening to radio scotland morning call – the program’s rotten – there was a call in about if the police should have guns – now I’ve heard this debate before – it was the practice debate before the refurendum debate shown on TV in Stirling – I noticed no voters are more pro firearms than yes voters.
That’s all I wanted to say
@ Nana Smith
Can you archive articles on the MSM so we don’t click through to their website and give them more money,
http://archive.today/
Copy this think, save it as a bookmark and when you see an article you wish to share, copy it, open the archive bookmark and then paste it into the box which will be transformed into an archive, automatically.
When that is done copy that and paste that as your reference / link.
It goes straight to the archived version and give SFA to the BBC or DR etc
@Bugger (the Panda)
Sorry about that, I thought it was archived as I pulled it from the LFI website.
Pete Wishart writes to Mr Speaker re Gordies half hour on 16th Oct at 6;30pm asking for a full debate as opposed to Gordies wee pretendy debate which turns out not to be a debate at all
http://petewishart.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/dear-mr-speaker-concerning-that-gordon-brown-debate/
Crazycat, sorry if I made a mistake in assuming 38 degrees was just a clone of change.org. On the other hand, I still don’t see what’s in it for them to go up against someone as powerful as Brown. It’s inevitable they’ll welcome the publicity of him associating himself with the petition.
It’s very weird there’s no name on the petition to let us know who started it. It seems likely that the first 85K names at least were added under what could now be characterised as false pretences, disappointed Yes people signing what they believed was a Yes petition.
On the other hand, if it was a Yes supporter who started it, it’s strange they haven’t come forward and protested about the hijacking.
I haven’t listened to Radio Scotland since the referendum. I haven’t bought a newspaper either. I used to like the Herald, esp anything from Ian Bell, but can’t bring myself to even look at it in the shops.
We do need a non-Internet voice or our own. Hopefully soon so it can get established with the Scottish people before next May.
SNP Election Results for WM in 2010 :-
Mike Weir MP = 15,020 votes ( Maj = 3,282)
Eilidh Whiteford = 15,868 votes (Maj = 4,027)
Stewart Hosie = 15,350 votes (Maj = 1,821)
Angus Robertson = 16,273 votes (Maj = 5,590)
Pete Wishart = 19,118 votes (Maj = 4,379)
Angus McNeil = 6,723 votes (Maj 1,885)
Angus McNeil`s total constituency electorate = 22,266 voters.
On a turnout of 66.1 per cent, (14,717) he won with under 7,000 votes.
Hence BamCam`s Mandate for “Boundary Change Legislation”
In 2001 Scotland had 72 x MP`s at WM.
Today Scotland can elect only 59 x MP`s to WM.
BamCam and Clegg want to cut that to only 50 x MP`s.
Our Democratic representation at WM – Where our money is CHOKED – will have been cut – by one-third.
BamCam and Clegg`s “Boundary Change Legislation” COMPLETED 2ND READING in the Commons – until they realised it would not bode well during the Indy Ref with Scots tories (400,000) – and it was defeated by the Unelected House of Lards.
To save tory blushes.
Wee Ruth was signally – Silent.
Let`s wreck the bastards with their own sordid recent history.
In this video, which was on the Scot Yes website http://scotyes.com/ mentioned yesterday, Robin McAlpine outlines what the various YES groups in Glasgow are proposing. It is only 17mins long and quite encouraging. Don’t let the media bombardment give you the impression that the grassroots have withered!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SkC2qW8KhO8
Met a group of people yesterday Hungarian, Polish, and German, American, and English, none of them could understand why none of the Scottish Labour and Liberal politicians wanted Independence not one of them supported the cause, yet a vast number of their supports voted yes, they all came to the conclusion that they “the politicians” have completely blown their political careers, I think there is no doubt of that.
Nana Smith
🙂
O/T
I know we are all wanting to move on but can’t help feeling a bit concerned when I found this:
https://twitter.com/kdugdalemsp/status/504628961507561472
What does chapping up postal voters mean on 27 Aug?
Less Scottish MP’s the better for English economy, Standard and Poor dude on R4 news this morn saying NO saved English rating. So get ready for a while lot less Scotland in Wesminster, just our money and our rescourses. Thanks again Crash and co.
@Capella
Thanks for the link, needed a lift and Robin just did that.
Good stuff from Brian Cox as well.
No no no…Yes says: I think rather like the SNP there is nothing to be read into this, or maybe there is given Labour’s track record on this. I got asked by the SNP if I wanted a postal vote, so if I had they would have known who asked for one from them. Now I imagine that is what Kezia was doing, and I am being charitable here, that she was going round speaking to those who had asked through the Labour Party for a paper.
I really dislike the way this whole postal voting thing is handled, so very open at the very start of the process to corruption.
We just had a big referendum,
To which Brown attached an addendum,
Sign a petition to force,
The UK gov to endorse,
Or give Cameron a kick up the rectum.
#National Poet Day
What does chapping up postal voters mean on 27 Aug?
Frightening pensioners, sheltered housing plots and old folks home residents.
G H Graham says: Nice Poetry, but we need to add that we do not sign his petition as it will not give Cameron anything like a good kicking. We need to sign Newsnet’s.
As I received 2 begging emails from Labour last night I decided to suggest where they may get some funds from as there’s not a chance in hell of getting a brass farthing from me, ever.
I told them to ask Ian Wood as he seems to have obtained lots of Scotland’s resources to dip into.
I stopped short of telling them to look in the pockets of their mps for the fraudulent expenses there mps have
stolen from the public purse. Perhaps I will next time they make contact.
crisiscult says: Don’t know if anyone replied to you regarding your badge design. It looks fine to me, I would wear it, I may even be able to hand out a few.
@Helena Brown
Newsnet petition is very slow, I suggested yesterday it needs a wider audience to get it moving. Don’t know if its on facebook?
Are the bookies offering odds that Crash Gordon will turn up at Westminster for his “debate,” come photo opportunity on the 16th of October.
Nana I think one of the reasons that Newsnet is probably having trouble is that it pissed of a lot of people with their stupid comments situation. You could not comment more than once in I believe half and hour. I gave up, because you could not commend a comment or add something to another comment. I do not know if it has changed but it is a very worthy addition but I think a wee bit up themselves.
I laughed like a drain when I read about your begging e-mails. Woman you were the soul of restraint. I do not think I have got one, if I have I will let rip this time.
Nana Smith
scotland should have all powers.
but if devomax is not delivered by the 2015ge “A failure to honour their pledge made to the Scottish people will be deemed a breach of contract and render the independence referendum result null and void.” would stand in any case.
https://twitter.com/KevinJPringle/status/517617623081963520
Ah Helena, believe me I was not restrained with my replies to Lamont, Curran & Brown.
I think you are correct in your assessment of newsnet. I have only ever commented once and that was to give information to a fellow commentator.
Always felt editors they were far too snippy at posters.
fred blogger
Mine from Ed Miliband read
Dear Bugger
honestly!
Those saying “DevoMax and Home Rule won’t be delivered” seem to be missing an opportunity here.
Right now, 55% of Scotland voted No. The referendum produced a No result by a big enough margin to be unarguable. If we had another referendum soon, it would likely be similar. But we have no justification for calling for another referndum any time soon. Ain’t gonna happen. It would be called undemocratic, and would infuriate the majority who voted No, who would come out of the shadows this time round, in anger, and actively campaign.
So either we want to wait another generation, or we take what weapons we have and use them.
Brown and Darling effectively promised “Home Rule” and “Devo Max”. “Home Rule” wasn’t stated in “The Vow”, which only said “More powers for Scotland” and a “Continuation of the Barnet formula” (neither of which means anything solid, as the BF could be cut by 99% and still not break the Vow and “more powers” could mean we get to tackle litter in Princess Street Gardens) but “Home Rule” was broadcast during the final moments of the campaign to swing voters to No.
So it is entirely legitimate to claim that the promise of “Home Rule” swung the vote. It probably did! And while it is not legitimate to call for another referendum soon because we “don’t like the result”, it is entirely legitimate to call for another referendum soon because “we didn’t get the Home Rule” promised.
If they go back on what was promised, then the referendum outcome was the result of a lie. That means we can call for another referendum.
Also, Home Rule is 85% of the way to Independence. Do you think those 25% No voters who were worried that it was just too big a step are going to be as worried about taking that final 15% step when we get to indyref 2?
Of course not.
Home Rule/Devo Max is the fastest and most secure way to full independence.
So please don’t keep dismissing the idea of Home Rule, saying “I never thought it would be delivered anyway”, because that’s throwing away the only weapon we have right now.
If you don’t want to accept “Home Rule” as a path to independence, then that’s fair enough. We’ll try to get another referndum in 20 years or so. But it will be just as hard as it was recently, because some people will think we can’t run our own affairs. “It’s just too big a step.”
Nana s
NNS always gave me the feeling that they were so full of themselves, had they been chocolate they would have eaten themselves.
Out of interest I Googled “Scottish independence by 2020” and was surprised to see most of the results were the MSM claiming a bid for Euro 2020 would be banjaxed by a “Yes” vote.
So the threats & lies went far deeper than I had believed.
“Vote for Independence and we’ll re-assess (i.e spitefully block) football tournament bid” – SERIOUSLY? Would anyone have been that thick to have been swayed by that threat?
Must have missed that one…
@Bugger (the Panda)
Oooh chocolate, full fat or the crumbly and flakiest kind?
Damn it now I want chocolate!
I’m one of the people monumentally pissed off by NNS’s vindictive moderation policy and the bizarre tone of many of their articles. I also have a policy of not signing internet petitions.
I signed both the NNS ones.
the kind that blocks your arteries?
https://archive.today/vnan1
Karmanaut
Tend to agree, we need to play the ball where it lies. Brown used the Home Rule phrase in his pre-vote exhortations and again in his Dalgety Bay speech. Cameron said that “Brown was right to talk of a federal solution”. There is no ambiguity here. Both the former and current PM have talked up Home Rule.
Miliband has cold feet because it will ultimately impact upon his Scottish seats in Westminster voting on English affairs. I cannot see any fair justification for retaining Scottish votes on purely English affairs. Labour would be unwise to block Home Rule simply to perpetuate something that is already deemed unfair in England.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/scotlands-referendum-the-stolen-nation/5405626
I see FM has said there will be no back collecting of Thatcher taxes.
Good on him.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/oct/01/david-cameron-ukip-labour-miliband-election
I highly recommend the COMMENTS SECTION of this article in the Guardian by Patrick Wintour.
It offers a glimpse of how many in England view Dodgy Dave Cameron – and it’s not pretty.
Thanks for that Handashrimp. I sort of got a bit of a row because I said this might be something of a problem for the SNP to deal with. Pleased to see Alex doesn’t think so. One in the eye for those who sought to rake the money in.
Dear oh dear. The Electoral Commission apparently wants to stop voter registration drives by campaigners!
http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0017/175031/Code-of-conduct-for-campaigners-REVISIONS-FOR-2015.pdf
@nana smith:
Why, chocolate has to be full cocoa fat, no? At least in France, chocolate = 100% cocoa and cocoa butter and some sugar. No other fat allowed. You can even get very dark chocolate (90% cocoa +).
If you can’t get good chocolate in Scotland, I’ll never move in!
So Gordo the Great is to get his ‘debate’ on Scotland’s future ‘more powers’ on 16th October – half an hour at the end of the day. Very little further comment from me is required. Gordo will make a speech and no one else will have a chance to respond.
Pete Wishart has written to the speaker saying WTF so will be interesting to see the response.
http://petewishart.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/dear-mr-speaker-concerning-that-gordon-brown-debate/
I checked out routes to Irish citizenship yesterday – needs 3 years residence (5 were it not for my wife) so is a non starter. I yearn for the day I can burn my passport and get the future edition of the Wee Blue Book that states nationality: Scottish.
Frankie Boyle’s take on the Referendum, after the day.
//www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0276z6t/frankie-boyles-referendum-autopsy
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p0276z6t/frankie-boyles-referendum-autopsy
OK correct
Muttley
Isn’t the main concern there postal and proxy votes?…although I think that is shutting the door after the horse has gone AWOL.
Karmanaut
Totally agree. We have to face the fact that 55% weren’t ready for a YES vote, though many of them would have wanted Independence if convinced it was a dawdle, rather than full of “risks and uncertainties”.
As you say, a sensible (large) amount of extra powers approaching Devo-Max will make the next step smaller.
The SNP are very aware: “The trap being set is one of powers without funding.”
I think we’re going to have to trust them to either navigate their way past that, or make such a huge stooshie there’ll be Indy Ref 2 in no time flat. Win-win.
It should be pointed out that the Scottish Parliament can vote AGAINST any new Scotland Act being implemented in Scotland, which would cause a huge Constitutional crisis. They did consider it for the Scotland 2012 because of clawing back of powers. Most of that clawing back was then taken out, and the SG reluctanly passed it to make way for the Indy ref we just had.
O/T -she isn’t hanging about
Roll-out of Universal Credit must be halted
Thu, 02/10/2014 – 09:39
Nicola Sturgeon has today written to the Prime Minister asking that the roll-out of Universal Credit be halted in Scotland pending the conclusion of the process to deliver substantial new powers for the Scottish Parliament.
The already delayed Universal Credit combines six different benefits into one. It effectively abolishes housing benefit – the one benefit that the Westminster parties seem to agree should be devolved to the Scottish Parliament – raising the question of how there can be a meaningful discussion about devolving a welfare benefit that is already in the process of being abolished.
Ms Sturgeon said:
“Iain Duncan Smith said at the Tory conference this week that roll-out of Universal Credit – including in Scotland – is to be ‘accelerated’.
“It is hard to see how this is in any way consistent with a good faith approach to the process of agreeing more powers for the Scottish Parliament.
“There is a widespread consensus that the Westminster parties’ proposals on the devolution of welfare powers are far too timid and that the Scottish Parliament needs substantial control of the welfare system to help people into work and tackle the growing scandal of poverty in Scotland.
“However, it is hard to see how even the limited welfare proposal of the main Westminster parties – to devolve control of housing benefit – can be delivered if the UK Government presses ahead with Universal Credit.
“Universal Credit effectively abolishes housing benefit. It is not clear to me how we can have a meaningful discussion about devolving a welfare policy that is already in the process of being abolished.
“I have therefore written to the Prime Minister today asking that the roll-out of Universal Credit – which in any event is already significantly delayed and discredited – is halted in Scotland.
“It is essential that the Westminster parties respect the process of agreeing more powers in actions as well as words.
“There is already concern that Westminster wants to backslide on the promises made before the referendum. David Cameron’s statement linking more powers for Scotland to English votes for English laws, Ruth Davidson’s attempt to rule out devo-max before the Smith Commission even gets to work, and Gordon Brown’s call for people to sign a petition to demand change that he previously said was a done deal have done nothing to build confidence amongst the Scottish people that the pre-referendum ‘vow’ will be honoured. To press ahead with a discredited policy that will undermine the substance of future discussions would only heighten that concern.
“I have said clearly that the Scottish Government is entering discussions on more powers in good faith. I am calling on the UK government to demonstrate in actions – not just in words – that it is doing likewise.”
Some vows are for breaking,
The piss, they are taking,
To fob us off with a story,
You can rely on a Tory.
#National Poetry Day
I read that Cameron went to a burger joint recommended by Obama. He probably asked for a pastie, then realised he was dyslexic and already had Gordon Brown.
I’m trying to think of anything that’s good about Tory society in England; the society that David Cameron belongs to.
I’m struggling . . . can anyone help ?
2 million No voters in Scotland MUST have an answer.
Bombing Iraq
Is water off a duck’s back
To an Empire that’s dying
Whose motto is, “Keep lying”.
#National Poetry Day
Honour Their Vow.[as posted on Front Page of Daily Record two days before the Referendum]
Newsnet Scotland Petition nearly there!
Please sign.
Thanks
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-honour-their-vow-made-before-the-independence-referendum-to-devolve-powers-to-the-scottish-parliament
@Lollysmum
What’s your source for the Sturgeon story?
The Tories are just
Worse than Ebola
#National Poetry Day
@ manandboy
and re my Ebola “poem”
It hasn’t crossed the Border and many of us are already immune.
Oh come on, Bugger. Ebola is not a guaranteed killer at all.
Try
The Tories are much
worse than Ebola
Email sent to 38 degrees
Dear Sir/Madam,
I am writing with extreme concern that the petition you instigated regarding the ‘vow’ from the Labour/Tory?Libdem leaders in the lead up to the Scottish referendum has been , in my view, hijacked by Gordon Brown.
If this ‘vow’ was made in good faith by these party leaders Mr Brown should have no need of attaching his name to an independent petition. Further more HE HAS NO RIGHT to attach his name to this petition.
I signed this petition in good faith and i am now outraged that my name is now being linked to something that Mr Brown is going to use.
I ask that, either you denounce the fact that MR Brown has put his name to this INDEPENDENT petition or you take my name off said petition.
This is a serious matter for the the people of Scotland and for the reputation of your campaigning organisation in my view. If you continue to sanction this particular issue i will no longer be able to support this petition or your organisation.
I look forward to hearing you have taken some speedy action on this matter.
Sincerely
Graeme Doig
I’ll let you know of any response, speedy or otherwise.
BTW Really pissed off with this clusterfuck clouding the way forward but had to do something 🙂
@AuldA
Don’t worry there is plenty good chocolate in Scotland. Some really tasty handmade choc shops.
http://www.storychocolate.co.uk/
I was in France recently and brought home lots for friends but for dark chocolate our preference is Green & Blacks.
@Graeme Doig
Well done!
Oh and if there’s any good chocolate going along with a nice bottle of red i’m in 🙂
As its National poetry day here’s my efforts
I pity the poor immigrant who goes to Englandshire
He’ll find no welcome there at all for things are really dire
Farage is in the henhouse now and out to do some baiting
The parties promising less EU so they can up their rating
The mps will say anything to win at any cost
They’ll persecute the poor and sick to aid the bankers loss
The troughers in the house of lords pass laws to aid this folly
While mps in the commons find it all so very jolly
Corruption reigns within the halls of government and power
The city bigshots pulling strings behind its bonus culture
While the media does all it can to cover up their deeds
The country suffers more and more,for politicians greed
While lizzie sits upon her throne and carriage made of gold
The elderly go hungry and are dying from the cold
Priorities and principles have long since been forgotten
All that matters to monarchy that their line be perpetuated
Big business in great britain pay little taxes to the crown
They send their money overseas to keep their payments down
Its little wonder the country’s bust and almost on its uppers
When all the politicians do is sell off the infrastructure
People are so sick at heart and know not what to do
To end the misery being caused to aid the chosen few
Folks need to make a stand against austerity fabricators
Perhaps the way to make them stop is to engage some terminators
A great song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP7xG_bHOIs
Chocolate ice Cream goes well with Bowmore whisky.
@Graeme Doig
Well done Graeme and well said.
@Graeme Doig
It would be interesting to know if Gordon Brown even signed this petition he’s trying to hijack.
Westminster are spending another £2.6Billion of Scottish taxpayers money on Trident, when the majority want Trident gone and Scotland has no Navy.
@ Karmanaut says:
2 October, 2014 at 1:57 pm
@Graeme Doig
It would be interesting to know if Gordon Brown even signed this petition he’s trying to hijack.
His PR man did though, G B’s account.
Meant to mention that if anyone else feels the need to get in touch with 38 degrees regarding this the best email address seems to be emailtheteam@38degrees.org.uk.
I had emailed another address but got a reply back saying they don’t read these due to spam and other reasons.
Oh for Goodness sake.
A Vow a day
Keeps the Scots at bay
We mean what we say –
They’ll pay and they’ll pay
#National Poetry Day
I see there have been many comments made here and elsewhere, that ALL the pro indy media outlets should work together. We really need pro indy media. I think we all agree on that.
Yet on here, I see people publicly knocking NewsnetScotland.com. Apparently, because some people don’t like their commenting policy.
Seriously, are you folks suggesting we should publicly undermine a good well constructed, authoritative pro indy media outlet run by volunteers, just because their comments policy doesn’t meet YOUR personal needs??? Seriously? WTF, I mean seriously WTF?
We need all the pro indy media we can get.
Here’s a wee bit of background for some folks who like to do this whinging about Newsnet. Back when it started (long before Wings BTW), it was a bit like this site, there was a comments free for all – almost. There were lots of arguments, and it was liberally sprinkled with trolls. Due to the fact that Newsnet is run by a skeleton staff of volunteers, they had to decide to either devote limited resources to moderating the comments, or restrict the comments, so their limited number of people could focus on writing good copy. This is what they did.
At the time, I and many others were unhappy at the changing of the comments section, but gradually, I came to realise, that really, there is space for different approaches to pro indy media. Around that time, wings started, and filled the commenting void so to speak. This site now for instance is quite combative at times, and their are some feisty discussions occasionally. Newsnet with its limited resources, has less focus on commenting and more on good articles, and pro indy campaigning – not least tackling the BBC head on – with success.
Everywhere you go on the internet, commenting rules vary. Some are strict, and some are the proverbial bun fight. There is space for all such approaches.
As Independence campaigners, we have precious few media resources, and this constant belittling and criticism of Newsnet is just stupid, with a capital S.
As for petitions, the current NNS one is exceptionally strongly worded and nails the main points well. It is well worth signing. To suggest people might not sign a petition like that from a reputable pro indy source just because they don’t like the comment policy, just beggars belief.
I simply do not understand this silo mentality. I do not understand it at all.
For the record, here is a recent article from Newsnet, which contains a potted history. Some here might care to read it, and understand how the site came about.
http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-opinion/9800-newsnet-scotland-a-continuing-story
We have to work together folks. We really, really do.
Just for the record, I do not nor ever have worked for Newsnet Scotland, but regardless of their comments policy I appreciate what they do.
Their petition, whose full text you should read, is here;
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-honour-their-vow-made-before-the-independence-referendum-to-devolve-powers-to-the-scottish-parliament
It is well worth signing.
P.S the commenting policy has recently changed at Newsnet Scotland, and is a bit more flexible.
I did not sign the 38degree petition as I could not see the value in getting this through. Could someone please tell me why it’s important to sign this vague petition
As the Scottish referendum campaigns came to a head, you made the Scottish people a series of promises. They included:
new powers for the Scottish Parliament [Some new powers are already on the way via Scotland Act. ANY new power would fulfil this requirement. SG could get responsibility (powers) over collecting 30% of income tax – so what! It is a pointless request. “Air rifle licensing” anyone?]
the power to spend more on the NHS if Scotland wanted to [the SG already has this power. What it doesn’t have is control over ALL revenues, and is limited to prioritising within a diminishing grant. It could put 100% of the grant to the NHS, no one can prevent this. This is another “useless” request]
that the final decision on public services spending would stay in Scotland [it already does stay in Scotland for devolved spending. Does this mean ALL spending on ALL public services? If so, then say so.]
Please stick to those promises on the timetable you agreed. Scotland won’t accept less.
In my view this “petition” even if supported by 4.9 million Scots would not change one iota the real powers that Scotland needs if WM sticks to it 100%. Someone please explain why I have this wrong?
@Democracy Reborn
SNP press issued yesterday
I find that good dark proper chocolate is just awesome with most good single malts. Anything tasting or smelling of peat does the trick for me – especially laphroaig. 🙂
Indeed, I have often thought, a whisky and chocolate bar would be the ultimate business venture.
@Robert Louis
Concur.
imv it is not up to us to prompt anyone, via petition’s, nor for us take responsibility for getting them to do what is right.
it is very clear what they MUST do.
we have already expended massive energy in fighting for justice, we must continue the fight for social justice.
we have already won in so many ways.
if they fail to deliver what has been promised before 2015ge that is their look out.
after that date scotland either declare’s indy or hold’s another ref.
the only petition imv worth signing atm is; https://www.change.org/p/gordon-brown-mp-go-fuck-yourself
@manandboy – archived article from guardian
https://archive.today/YoqwY
Aye well thanks to all this chocolate talk i’ve found mysel in a heap of trouble wi Mrs D when she comes home. Just raided her stash of Moser Roth sour cherry chilli 85% cocoa (bought from Aldi and highly recommended).
Tony Little
Don’t sign it. Understand why tens of thousands of people did in the 2 or 3 days after the referendum. What you omit is the much more detailed and emotive cover email that accompanied it.
The fact that Brown puts his name to it means it is worthless. The feeling on the Friday or Saturday was that we needed to do something, anything. I wasn’t thinking straight in those days- and I was not alone in that.
Ken500: Actually £3.2B as there is another £600M contract to BAE. Including Portsmouth and Plymouth that will continue employment for 7500. A cost of over £85K pa per job and with no end product. Total waste of money.
Guys,
Hearing about AS stopping councils from collecting poll tax arrears reminds me of the DWP.
They persuded me(between 2012-2014)for a welfare payment from 26 years ago yes 1988..Yes folks i once had the audasity to be poor and required welfare! the sum total of which at the time was 132.00 they added interest which came to 162.00.
although as i pointed out to them(it fell on deaf ears surprise surprise) that i have hardly been unemployed for twenty years In April this year they made me pay it by sending a deduction notice to my employer i kid you not they are complete bst***be warned.
Robert Louis
Absolutely.
I did find it annoying at first, as you’d compose a post and it either wouldn’t appear, or appear way later. But once I got the hang of it, I just posted the occasional comment, perhaps a bit of info they might not have, or an insight. It usually appeared, a few hours after.
What it did mean was that there were few off-topic posts, no or little personal arguement, and that made the articles themselves more effective, and the comments more effective too.
Indy has need for many different styles, and it has it. But I do agree there should be more co-operation between sites, where possible and time-effective.
Tan Jardine
Agreed and i think a lesson for me and others to be a bit more selective (although it was hard to legislate for current circumstances re GB) and considerate in what we put our names to going forward.
I do however think we need to use every reasonable outlet for keeping WM’s feet to the fire, no matter how futile this sometimes seems, and also to make sure they know we haven’t gone away.
muttley79 says:
The Electoral doc you linked, comes down but is now blank.
@Les Wilson
Still working for me, you need to scroll down to at least page 4.
Please make a point of signing petition, the link is here;
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-honour-their-vow-made-before-the-independence-referendum-to-devolve-powers-to-the-scottish-parliament
We, the undersigned, call on the Labour party, together with their Better Together allies the Conservatives and the Lib Dems, to commit to devolving all powers with the exception of Foreign Affairs and Defence. This commitment to be enforced through legislation prior to the 2015 May General Election.
So long as Scotland remains in the Union, these powers to remain under the control of the Scottish Parliament.
A failure to honour their pledge made to the Scottish people will be deemed a breach of contract and render the independence referendum result null and void.”
The Referendum; a poem.(composed under poetic licencing
legislation)
Aw fuck
Nae luck.
#National Poetry Day
Robert Louis, I hope I have not started another hornets nest, merely saying to Nana that Newsnet had in the past pissed people off with their commenting procedure, that they have finally amended it is good. I have in the past contributed to Newsnet and consider them a worthy successor to any newspaper. I have recommended that people sign their petition only 158 to go at last count.
I know it’s been mentioned briefly already but well done to Alex Salmond for acting quickly and decisively regarding the attempted recovery by some councils of a 30 year old unfair and discredited tax.
Mr Salmond acting with justice and integrity as usual. Well done sir.
Other party leaders are not fit to wipe your arse. They’re too busy swimming about in their own shite.
I got a reply from 38 degrees but my posts aren’t appearing here so will desist. Needless to say they have no idea how badly this reflects on them. I have asked for my name to be removed and will unsubscribe.
Jackie G, I will be watching carefully considering in 2000 I signed on between jobs. I had taken early retirement and I remember well being told by one of the jobs worthy types that I would not get benefits, I said that I did not expect to. Well they inadvertently paid me £146, I then went down to the office cheque book in hand to be told there was no way they could take it back but I would have to tell the Tax people which I duly did. So looks like I may have to wait another 6 years and they will have found me.
liz says:
2 October, 2014 at 2:40 pm
@manandboy – archived article from guardian
https://archive.today/YoqwY
Thank you for the reminder – I keep forgetting, but no more.
Tony Little
I realised I got an email yesterday about that petition aswking me to sign it so I read it, found the name on the team – Becky Jarvis – and did a little reading on 38 degrees. It does seem very genuine, reading the background of the staff, and her blog entries on the site. At worst 38 degrees are a bit naive thinking the Record – and ex-PM don’t forget, Brown, have genuine reasons for backing it. They are London / England based.
However, supposedly Sturgeon backed it as well, and if she did – I can find no confirmation apart from the Record – then she would have good reason to – she’s smart.
Even without that, it can’t really do any harm, as it keeps the VOW in the public eye. But I didn’t sign it either. Still no answer to me email to the 38 degrees team. It wouldn’t do any harm for a few more people politely asking them to confirm if Gordon Brown or a PA is behind it. The more email they get, the more they might do some checking out – including perhaps contacting Sturgeon to ss if she really did say what the Record quoted her as saying.
As I write this in a coffeeshop in Glasgow’s south side, Blair Jenkins has just vacated his seat leaving behind his Glasgow Herald. Casually dressed sans badge (unlike me, Yes/Wings).
A new, less partisan, job beckons?
I’ve had a very bad thought.
If Cameron & Co thought they might lose IndyRef or GE15,
they might hedge their bets
and sell all the oil and gas in advance.
It would cost them a fair bit
but it would still be a lot better than losing it all.
Just noticed Nicola Sturgeons request to stall implementation of Universal Credits has been knocked back by WM. What a surprise.
Helena Brown @3.15pm
Yes Helena,
be careful they got me as i had the same address and workplace for more than Five years.
It was not that i could not pay,to me it was a point of princible.
I had paid into the system and felt that as i had been in dire need at the time in 1988 i have more than paid my dues but, they told me it was’debt’ and that i was being unfair to other taxpayers by refusing to pay..
makes my blood boil if i had been a pensioner or disabled they would have treated me the same as they think the Working Class are scum nuff said.
For what it’s worth. The letter sent to my Labour MP with regards to Devo-whatever. I’ve chopped out the pre-amble. If anyone wants to use it as a template, feel free.
If I get a response I’ll be sure to let Wingers know.
**
I am writing today to raise my concerns about the Independence Referendum ‘more powers’ vow.
Forty five percent of a record turnout voted Yes for Scottish Independence. In an Ashcroft poll last week, a further 47% of No voters said they did so on the understanding that Scotland would receive ‘more powers’. Powers which were promised during the 28 day pre-election period and could easily have swung the vote to a decisive Yes. The goalposts were moved.
The powers promised took the form of either –
a) Devo Max (Alastair Darling, ‘Scotland Decides’ BBC Scotland 09 September)
b) Home Rule (“near federalism”) (Gordon Brown, Loanhead, 08 September)
My understanding of these terms is that they mean:
Home Rule – the government of a colony, dependent country, or region by its own citizens.
Devo max – Full fiscal autonomy / devolution of all powers except for foreign affairs and defence.
There was also the vague Daily Record ‘Vow’ of 15 September which received widespread coverage in the news just prior to the vote. Signed by all three main Westminster party leaders.
Finally, we have Devo SUPER Max (George Galloway, Big, Big Debate on 11 Sep) but I’ll let that one pass, for obvious reasons (despite him officially representing Better Together at the time).
The aforementioned powers (up to and including Devo Max / HR) were promised by Better Together representatives, presumably with the authority of the UK Government and the Labour Party. If authority was exceeded, BT issued no statements to clarify that this was the case.
My questions to you are as follows –
1. Do you believe that there is room for re-interpretation of the generally agreed terms ‘Devo Max’ and ‘Home Rule’ ?
2. Under what circumstances would it be appropriate for the two main parties (who co-operated so effectively to protect the Union before the referendum) to renege on delivery of either Devo Max or Home Rule?
3. Do you believe that the ‘more powers’ offer was in breach of the Edinburgh Agreement ‘purdah’ period? If not, why not?
4. Do you believe that, if Devo Max or Home Rule in their true sense (see above) are NOT delivered, the referendum result would be invalid?
5. What could you do, in the capacity as my Member of Parliament, do to help ensure that Devo Max / HR is delivered, undiluted? And what do you plan to do?
***
Go on. Copy, paste, change the name, send. After all…
…they work for you!
https://archive.today/mWuFI
Joseph E. Stiglitz points out the catastrophe of austerity.
It’s pretty depressing, but when you’ve crashed the car,
there’s little point in pretending you’re at the beach.
Like Cameron does.
Text of a Thank You e-mail from Yes Scotland:
“On Monday we held a very proud and positive meeting of the Yes Scotland advisory board. We looked back at the campaign and what was achieved, and looked forward to how the momentum of the Yes movement can be maintained and strengthened in the months and years ahead.
Everybody wanted to express our deep gratitude to all of those who worked so hard for a Yes vote. It was the very essence of Yes to be a grassroots and community-based campaign and the fact that success was so nearly achieved was a direct testament to the magnificent work done by Yes volunteers all over Scotland. Thank you all, for the great contribution you made to the independence cause.
In accepting the result of the independence referendum, there is a great desire to build on the many positives of the Yes campaign. We know that many local Yes groups are continuing to meet and that the political parties involved in the Yes movement are seeing huge increases in membership.
The first task is to ensure that the Westminster parties deliver on the explicit promises made to the people of Scotland about substantial additional powers for the Scottish parliament.
We thank you most sincerely for what you have done already for the Yes campaign, and for what you will do in the future.”
E-mail from Yes, Blair Jenkins.
A bit anodyne, like the whole official Yes campaign.
UKIPSocialist commenting in the Guardian yesterday
“Cameron believes the country should be run by Old Etonians for the benefit of the very rich.
That’s why we need to get rid of him,
not because he’s a despicable sleaze-bucket.
Take away all the despicable sleaze-buckets and neither major party would be left with more than a dozen MPs.”
@Karmanaut says: 2 October, 2014 at 11:55 am:
“calling for another referndum any time soon. Ain’t gonna happen. It would be called undemocratic.”
The first one is already undemocratic. I need not explain to you how & why – you already know that it was/is.
A Westminster duffer called Broon
In the country was going roon and roon
Delivering speeches
To like-minded leeches
And gen’rally being a buffoon.
Already signed the Newsnet petition the other day. Newsnet Scotland is a great site, the first pro-independence web site I’d ever looked at, which was a breath of fresh air compared to the useless nonsense I was used to in the MSM etc. To this day, it remains essential reading for me and no doubt many others. I found out about this site through comments over at Newsnet Scotland. Long may it – and all the other pro-independence websites – continue.
Just received a Thank You email from Blair Jenkins at Yes Scotland as well, timed at 3.31pm
Cameron in his tartan jammies
Scotland’s pure affrontery
Sittin’ tellin’ late night tales
Of how tae steal a country…
#National Poetry Day
@ crisiscult
Re your badge I agree that the idea is good but given the three colours which comprise it I’m afraid it’s not for me.
Replace the red with black as in the ‘Yes’ Saltires and you could be on a winner.
BSC
Excellent letter. Well worded with relevant quotes. I’ll certainly use. Not sure who to send it to yet. May be worth targeting certain MP/MSP,s.
@Tony Little
Precisely. 100,000 people have now backed devo-nothing.
Which is one of the two reasons why Gordon Brown called for people of Scotland to back it. It now gives the government seemingly legit grounds to dismiss any argument for “Home Rule” in favour of this devo-nothing crap. Because the people of Scotland “have spoken” and say they really want this devo-nothing crap.
This is why it is crucial that people sign the Newsnet petition for real powers.
The other reason Brown hijacked this petition, is because it now paints him, and by extension the Labour Party, as “Scotland’s defenders”, holding the Tories to account over this solemn “Vow”.
The Daily Record will keep hammering on about this “Vow”, until we’ve all forgotten that the promise of Home Rule was what actually swung it.
Then, 18 months down the line, when Labour and the Daily Record “secure” the new powers pledged in the Vow, and we get to pay millions to raise 15% of our own taxes and see the Barnet Formula cut, there will be an almighty self congratulation “Labour and the Daily Record do it for Scotland” blitz. Except nobody will even be aware that the new powers aren’t anything worthwhile. And nobody will mention Home Rule any more. That will just be from “a small fringe group of nationalists who disagree with the deomcratic will of Scotland.”
We are being well and truly set up with this Vow.
Sign the Newsnet one instead. We need more than 100k signaturs on this, just to make a case for Devo Max over Devo nothing.
https://www.change.org/p/the-uk-government-honour-their-vow-made-before-the-independence-referendum-to-devolve-powers-to-the-scottish-parliament
BigSteveChisholm 3:30pm
They work for you.com is an interesting site. In the register of interests section I discovered that the MP for South Ochil, GBanks has a “Remunerated directorship” for a Building Supply company in Lochgelly, Fife. He averages 19hours per month and gets paid over £2,000 per MONTH. Not bad work for a second job!
imv the discussions on new powers for scotland must be concluded by the end of feb 2015, to ensure enough time to discuss that and reaction to it.
leaving anything until after 2015ge will be foolish.
@Robert Peffers says:”The first one is already undemocratic. I need not explain to you how & why – you already know that it was/is.”
I totally agree with you. Democracy was trampled over by lies. And we need to kick up an almighty fuss about it. A shout so huge that it can’t be ignored by the MSM. That’s why we need to hold them to the promise of Home Rule and not just let it slide. We can’t let them say the majority are satisfied with the devo-nothing given in the vow.
We need headlines like: “Majority of Scots, furious at WM’s broken promises, demand another referendum.”
And not “Fringe nationalists still demand Home Rule after majority of Scots back devo-minimum offered by WM.”
One crumb of comfort for those who decided to vote for the first time, in the independence referendum, is Alex Salmond has openly said he’d block Scottish Councils from hunting down folk who didn’t pay the Poll Tax,over 25 years ago.
Of course, those of you who recall the nasty tax, will remember Scotland was hit with it a year before the rest of the UK. It was all thanks to another Tory government under Thatcher.
It seems Nicola was not present at FMQ’s today as she attended the Funeral of a 92yr old. The old gentleman was in hospital. On voting day he was escorted from his hospital bed to the polling booth to cast his yes vote. Hell mend all who could not be arsed to get of their sofa’s to vote Yes for Scotland.
http://www.scottishconservatives.com/2014/09/ruth-time-reset-scotland/
Speaking at a side show in Birmingham, the only thing I agreed with Ruth Davidson on was when she said:
“And we don’t need the Liberal Democrats for, well, anything really…”
The rest is pure fiction.
RD is a list MSP after coming FOURTH, yes 4th, in the Constituency vote in 2011.
However she is just like her Party Leader in one regard –
She too is a consummate liar.
@Capella re 38degrees.
Just back in. Your right, misread one of the previous comments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
Bit O/T, I know, but worth a read to understand how the Americans kicked the despised London rule back into the Atlantic, never to return!
Should be mandatory reading for present day Scottish patriots-you never know, some bits could come in useful for our present struggle………..
@capella., I don’t know if this will work for you but when using google chrome the posts take an age to appear. I switched to Internet explorer and they appear right away.
I think it’s something to do with Windows 8/8.1 and what security you use.
Also those of you getting emails from the lab party, I did as well – it was when I complete a questionnaire from them but in a sarcastic way – eg what could we do to improve the lives etc – reply – become independent.
So they obv never read the replies – I reported them as spam and now don’t get any.
Also;
Statement from Blair Jenkins at Yes Scotland:
From Blair Jenkins at Yes Scotland.
————————————————
On Monday we held a very proud and positive meeting of the Yes Scotland advisory board. We looked back at the campaign and what was achieved, and looked forward to how the momentum of the Yes movement can be maintained and strengthened in the months and years ahead.
Everybody wanted to express our deep gratitude to all of those who worked so hard for a Yes vote. It was the very essence of Yes to be a grassroots and community-based campaign and the fact that success was so nearly achieved was a direct testament to the magnificent work done by Yes volunteers all over Scotland. Thank you all, for the great contribution you made to the independence cause.
In accepting the result of the independence referendum, there is a great desire to build on the many positives of the Yes campaign. We know that many local Yes groups are continuing to meet and that the political parties involved in the Yes movement are seeing huge increases in membership.
The first task is to ensure that the Westminster parties deliver on the explicit promises made to the people of Scotland about substantial additional powers for the Scottish parliament.
We thank you most sincerely for what you have done already for the Yes campaign, and for what you will do in the future.
————————————————
Statement from us, we’re just finishing up the meeting summary. Boy did you guys say a lot! We’re also editing it down to make sure that we don’t get sued. Hopefully it will be up in a day or two.
No No No….yes.
Gordon Banks is a founding Director of Cartmore Building Supplies. When BBC Scotland ran a feature(just before the vote)on brick shortages causing a problem with house building in Scotland, what building supply company was featured and had their spokesman interviewed? That’s right Cartmore!!
In my wee toon,
There`s the old,the young and the sick,
There`s the greedy,the shameless and the thick.
There`s the honest,the caring and those who do good,
There`s the selfish,the nasty and those who don`t give food.
There`s the SNP the SSP,and the Greens
There`s red and blue tories and warmongering fiends.
In my wee toon
#nationalpoetryday
Limmy and Duncan going at it right now in cyberspace. 😀
https://twitter.com/DaftLimmy
The oil’s running out,
Unionists said,
There’s no doubt,
But London’s business,
Is booming,
While our debt,
Is ballooning,
No wonder the Scots,
Choose to pout.
#National Poetry Day
@Robert Louis says: 2 October, 2014 at 2:17 pm:
“I see there have been many comments made here and elsewhere, that ALL the pro indy media outlets should work together. We really need pro indy media. I think we all agree on that.”
All very well and good, Robert Louis but people have a choice to make and they are entitled to freely make it. However, what I really wanted to point out is that unless a petition has a guarantee of some particular action it is a total waste of time and effort. Do you imagine that Number 10 Downing Street being seen taking a signed petition from someone outside the door and carrying it inside means anything? They probably have a disposal chute inside the door leading to the cellar and a power shredder.
Only one petition has any effect and that effect is still minimal but at least it must legally be actioned by Parliament if over the stipulated limit numbers have signed it. Mind you the action needs be no more than to say, “bin it”, – but at least it must be read out before binning it.
Picked up today that a blab msp wanted the decision on the scotrail franchise delayed till the devo-zilch powers were announced.
With NS`s request being refused out of hand, wonder how the rail one will be viewed, and what one gets more airtime on the Scots/london based tv channels.
Beware of a Movement which Smiles.
http://toeragmctavish.wordpress.com/2014/10/01/beware-of-a-movement-which-smiles/
Others have probably covered this, but perhaps the obvious occured to me. We talk a lot about the 45% who stood their ground and voted Yes in the face of an overwhelming media onslaught. Great!
However, there is another percentage and group of ‘Yes minded’ people. Those who had planned to vote Yes, but were swayed by DevoMax promises & vows. Two questions … just how big was this group? And, how do they feel as the promises & vows dissolve to nothing-worth-having?
My point being, when DevoMax is removed from the table, as it surely win, we will perhaps be back to 55%-60% realising Independence is in fact the only way to go.
If momentum and interest can be maintained, this bodes well for WM2015 & Edin2016 & Eu2017 & IndyRef II !
Going totally OT. Why has the rest of the world seen at least part of the new TV series set in Scotland, Outlander? My mate in NZ says it’s great.
Of course, my question is probably rhetorical. I think it’s certain it has been kept off our screens, especially pre-referendum, because it’s basically about decent highlanders dealing with nasty English forces of occupation. And, the last think London wants is another ‘Braveheart Effect’!
Anyone know if this is true? Or, are we to get to see it?
Hello,
I would like to add my voice to the support of Newsnet Scotland… although I will disclose an interest and say I am involved with it, I am speaking for myself and no one else in this comment.
Both Newsnet and Wings are established news sites now thanks to the support, both financial and otherwise, of their respective readers. Both sites employ different methods of moderation, publication and so on. Both sites took different directions because they are run by different people with different visions.
This, crucially, gives both sites a very distinct voice compared to the other. This encourages a degree of plurality in our to appeal to different sects of society. Some people like the Wings approach where articles can be more robust and carry upwards of 700 comments, while others prefer the Newsnet approach with a smaller and more moderated number. I know for a fact that the Newsnet approach has appealed to many that were put off by Wings’ style; the opposite is also true as evidenced by many comments here.
My point: There is absolutely no point in wanting or expecting successful independent sites like these to become copies of each other. We must not fall into the trap of expecting every pro-Yes site to sing from the same narrow hymn sheet and risk alienating people who want or expect something different.
The Yes movement has never been about conformity or alienation, ALL views are welcome.
This becomes even more important when you look at the 55+ age group being the one who leaned towards No. This age group is the least likely to want or care about comments; they read newspapers for articles, not discussion.
Both Newsnet’s and Wings’ readership stats are proof that commenting is not a priority to the casual reader. Both sites have highly respectable readership figures whilst employing very different approaches. 99% of the readerships on both sites do not comment, they read.
People who like the Wings style can read Wings. People who like the Newsnet style can read Newsnet. Others who prefer National Collective, Bella Caledonia and so on can frequent those.
Or, like me, you can read all of them and take it all in.
@
galamcennalath says:
Yes you are correct. It was kept off the screens during the Referendum period.
Hear hear mr Lyon
The ssp and greens don’t stand candidates at ge’s a waste of time and money. The snp is not about to disband folks, and join with cnd, who also don’t stand candidates at ge,s why would they change their name 7months out from the election? I hear folk on this thread saying they don’t like all of the snp policies.? Even if all 57 mp’s from Scotland are snp, what policies do you think they will be able to enact in Westminster against 550 odd unionists? If you can’t bring yourself to vote snp, then chose, ukip, Tory, libdem, labour or don’t vote. Thems the choices folks. If the snp do not win big in May 2015, this movement is dead. Btw,I just spent the last 2 years crowd funding and delivering leaflets for, yes, green, ssp, national collective, commonweal and every single political organization in Scotland”…….except the snp, did anyone notice that?
Proud Cybernat reads and loves all the indy sites. Well done the lot of you and please do keep it up. We gave WM one almighty fright–and we’re only just starting.
Just one of these fleeting comments but Cochrane remains as a ‘zany’ link. Surely the lying sod broke some sort of law by accepting payment to skew his news reports.
Test
@Nana Smith:
good point.
The link you gave points to a Belgian chocolate maker. Belgian chocolates are good, but tend to be a bit fatty unless carefully picked up. Galler is the best.
http://www.galler.com
second test
BtP playing cricket!
Bro”……still pregnant I hope?
3rd test
@BtP:
That’s the sleeve for your new album? 😉
naw, having a wee swally in an alcohol free zone.
Yes, a silent one.
Should sell well.
@Bugger (the Panda)
Hey Panda have you been eating too much chocolate and not enough bamboo??
You’re looking a wee bit sluggish there.
@AuldA
Thanks for the Galler link, wish I hadn’t looked now.
I have had the macarons, didn’t care for them.
I may pay a visit before Christmas…Mmmmmmmmmm
O/t
If there is one
I remember someone saying they knew who was hiding in the panda suits, referendum is over, care to let us in on the secret?
@BtP:
Sounds of silence, remade?
Chocolate talk has left you voiceless?
The Pandas are from Dundee. Just one of the reasons the city voted 57% Yes. Well done the Pandas, but they’ll need to tell you themselves who they are 🙂
@BtP:
By the way, no follow-up from the SNP? Got nothing today.
red biddy morelike
Click on the image and see a (slightly) larger version.
It is a Banksy image.
They said that they had just processed half the new applications and only had another c26,800 to go.
That suggests nearly 54,000 new members have joined.
NEARLY 80,000 IN TOTAL THEN.
They have more members in Scotland that the LibDems have in the whole UK and my not be very far from the Tories total membership.
Spoil sport Alex, mind you, spending all day in such a suit without even taking of the head for a breather is some commitment to the cause
We’ll done to both of them, who ever they are
Schroedinger’s Cat
Tian-Tian is no longer up the duff.
Banksy me
http://www.photographshop.co.uk/graffiti-banksy-canvas-prints-panda-holic-canvas-print-80x80cm-we-deliver-to-main-land-ukexceptions-channel-islandsscotish-highlands-and-ireland/
@ AuldA
These macarons look and sound delicious.
“Banane et Caramel
Mariage parfait entre la douceur de la banane et du caramel”
Once we are independent you can be the Minister for Chocolate imports and other patisserie.
Vous etes une noisette valise?
I don’t know what all the agro is about! I love all these sites! I look at many in a day and really they do all agree. Please let’s not fight amongst ourselves! All newspapers had their own opinion on each subject, let us agree that’s good for society! Each internet site should be glad to share things with each other and not be so childish to compare each other to kinds of chocolate!!! Sorry but that’s stupid!!
We need you back Stu! After your holiday of course! Get these folk back on track!
Conversation with Tommy Sheridan
On at 8.00pm
Should of added.
Tune in to Independence Live studio and watch a conversation with Tommy Sheridan and findout what his thoughts are on how the Indy movement goes forward and more… Got questions then ask during the live streaming messaging facility. Please share and tweet this event. We are crowdfunding again for £4000 to employee a full time member for a few months to help get SILE further organised. Details released soon.
Um – just a thought, but is anyone actually getting on with writing the constitution?
Because I think this could be very useful.
The longer you wait for the future
the shorter it will be. Loesje
.
Let’s find a way to make the wait for Indy short
or, failing that, let’s just make Indy happen.
We have to take control.
Only one side can have it.
London has kept control for 307 years and now some more.
Every single one of the 1.6 million Yes voters
can think of something, some small thing maybe,
like washing the filthy lies
of the mind-controlling Unionist media out of your life.
take back control of your thoughts.
Take control Scotland !
And let’s go get Independence !
Loving the new image, BtP, but not too impressed with the link to the site. They deliver to mainland UK with the exception of Channel Islands (wee clue in island, there), Ireland (yup) and Scotish [sic] Highlands. So only some of the “UK”. And to think we could have knocked that kinda crap into the long grass. Or bamboo, even!
http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2014/10/02/the-lord-chancellor-is-dismantling-the-rule-of-law
@ Morag
From much further up the thread (I’m just catching up) – and most of this has been mentioned and it probably doesn’t matter much now:
When I first started signing 38 degrees petitions, they were all generated by “the team”, whose names were listed at the end of the invitation. One of those names would appear in my inbox.
Much more recently, they have allowed members/supporters to submit petitions, which will then bear an individual name, and be circulated to the mailing list, which in its entirety is huge (> 1 million, I think). I think they call this Campaigns For You.
They do target some of their petitions; I definitely don’t get them all, and I was once sent an apology for receiving one that was not relevant to me – although I hadn’t actually got it.
The “Brown” petition comes from the main team, whose names were listed on my invitation to sign it (which I’ve deleted, but someone else mentioned Becky Jarvis; I’ve had lots of stuff from her).
I’m still awaiting a reply to my request to acknowledge that they have blundered here, and to remove my name.
Nearly 80,000 members for SNP
plus 5 or ten thousand for the greens and SSP.
The Scots are raising an army !
Wait till Elizabeth II hears that!
I’ll try posting the 38 degrees reply in two or three smallchunks as the site won’t post it all. It isn’t THAT long so I don’t know what the problem is (got the message re IE Liz):
“The petition for Westminster to keep promises to Scotland started because 38 Degrees members voted to start it on the day of the referendum results. They decide what we do, not Gordon Brown or any other politician! The petition has been going for nearly 2 weeks, and already had nearly 80,000 signatures when Gordon Brown decided to sign it.”
Part 2
“It’s a petition which targets all the Westminster party leaders, not just one – 38 Degrees is independent of all political parties. Incredibly, bitter rivals Nicola Sturgeon, the SNP deputy leader (and definitely not a fan of Gordon Brown!) and Johann Lamont, the Scottish Labour leader, have both backed the petition. The Daily Record newspaper has also supported it.”
Thanks for the explanation, Crazycat. The whole thing is completely surreal, but I don’t expect the company to do anything to generate bad publicity or piss off a former PM.
Final part won’t print. Puzzle
Basically just says that the more people who sign the better but it still belongs to 38 degrees.
I think they are just a bit naive and don’t realise how devious Labou pols are.
@ Quentin Quale
What chance do I have in France?
I am buggered, to coin a phrase.
Nana
There is no limit to the depths these despicable scum bags down there will go to shaft vulnerable people to put a few extra quid the way of their doners and lobbyists.
Contrast that with AS decision today re poll tax arrears.
Bugger (the Panda) says:
2 October, 2014 at 6:37 pm
Schroedinger’s Cat
Tian-Tian is no longer up the duff.
Devasted moi
@ Paula Rose
There is or was a proposed or discussion Constitution on the SNP website and has been there for years.
They did publish a skeletal version in the White Paper.
I prefer something that locks protection on the very important things and leaves others less rigidly defined.
It will be a great exercise.
Personally I would like an Oath of Honesty and Fidelity to the people of Scotland for MPs, Civil Servants, and all holders of political office, local, regional and national.
Then I would like a “Police Force” to be the Guardian of the Constitution and initiate prosecution of those who break the Constitution.
Finally an ability to recall MPs, councillors etc, under specific conditions (not a daily occurrence) etc etc.
Ia m all for a mosaic Parliament with a culture of open dealing and co-operation.
No more Punch and Judy Politics.
So Bugger honey where is the forum for this? Anyone else get the point?
I’d love to be able to pull out a concise constitution whenever anyone mentions WM outrages.
@ Schrödinger’s cat
I am back on the bottle, see my avatar
Robert Peffers dear – could you do us the un-concise version to start with?
Paula R
Maybe we need a separate blog to get that open for discussion?
BtP dear – I thought you were on a barrel.
@Capella:
With great pleasure! I’d be happy to introduce some delicacies in Scotland in the pure French tradition, with the help of BtP who can assist me with some Southwestern gourmet dishes.
Noisette valise? Let me guess what you meant… Nut case?
Or maybe a separate thread on wings for our ideas and then share with others on other pages?
After all we all prefer a bottom up approach.
Oops – I keep doing that double entry thing, or entendre whatever.
Paula Rose
Proposed Constitution discussion paper sent direct to you by E-mail.
Any outdoor events planned for the next few days a word of caution.
Why has Nicola Sturgeon signed that pish 38 degrees petition for? It is absolutely shit as far as I can make out. WTF is going on?
@Bugger
I miss your old avatar you know….
Livestream update.
Running Late
We’re running laste folks. Starting at 8:30pm
Livestream update.
Running Late
We’re running laste folks. Starting at 8:30pm
@ Muttley79
I’ll do a straw poll in a few days. Last time I changed it I was besieged by ladies asking for the bow tie version of me to be reinstalled.
Start a change.org petition if you want?
@BtP:
The three laws of Scottish constitution according to pandas:
Article 1. Pandas are sacred and shall be protected.
Article 2. Scots must obey Pandas, as long as they do not infringe on the first article.
Article 3. Scots may live free within the limits given by the two previous articles.
@Bugger
When I read your posts I always imagined the words coming out of that big Panda’s mouth! 😀
Scotland.
What land?
The bought land.
Oh, the NOT land.
Aye, the gone to pot land.
AultA
Someday I’ll let you read why I came to be called Bugger (the Panda.
It is a blog article but it will be a challenge to your linguistic skills. It would be a an even greater one for some Scots and most English, Americans etc.
muttley79
In my cups just now but will soon emerge.
I am still suffering from the Shock of the Referendum result.
None of my family voted Yes.
sorry none vote NO.
Tired tonight.
Anyone interested in what they do with fracking sludge in the USA can read this and know what to expect from our Government=for=sale in Westminster.
Be forewarned and be forearmed
Shocking
http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/10/02/15826/open-pits-offer-cheap-disposal-fracking-sludge-health-worries-mount?utm_source=email&utm_campaign=watchdog&utm_medium=publici-email&goal=0_ffd1d0160d-0a2c160e7b-100246969&mc_cid=0a2c160e7b&mc_eid=86613e5899
Bugger dear – stick to the bamboo.
You cane it makes sense xx
Paula
Stick to the strappy CFM 6″ ers.
That makes more sense to me.
Honour et fidelite..?
I bet you I would not be linguistically challenged reading your life story btp
J’suis un veux shouf
Rule of thumb Bugger dear xx
@Bugger
None of my family voted Yes.
How come?
Hi all don’t really comment here (But I enjoy reading what folk say here, entertaining and informative, what’s not to like?!) but I have some random things I need to get off my chest/enquire about (in the interests of handling objections from my No friends in future):
1. As George Osborne announces yet more savage cuts to welfare whilst WM MP’s enjoy a pay rise (that made me sick up in my mouth a little bit), can anyone confirm that SG MP’s, or at least SNP ones, are going to be enjoying same, or have they had the good grace to refuse?
2. Ghandi’s grandson was in Edinburgh (today? It’s Ghandi’s birthday today btw) and he mentions that, even if independent, we couldn’t get rid of our WMD’s in Faslane if we wanted to remain a member of NATO. Is this right?
3. This is about Wings website, more a bit of feedback/would like to see… But whilst I love reading comments, learn lots and great links lead me onto interesting stuff, it’s a bit like walking into a room where everyone’s having conversations with each other across the room, it’s hard to follow a particular sub-thread (?) between individuals. If there was a Reply function to a commenter that would be great. (Yes, like FB, but sometimes I want to contribute to a conversation here away from that but I kind of feel I’m butting into a conversation that ended 59 comments ago!)
That’s all, just want to say hello, I’m as gutted as everyone else here about what’s happened, and am dismayed that pretty much all the things happening in the event of a No vote has come to fruition way quicker than I thought ???? but Wings, WGD, etc keep me going. This wee cat isn’t about to curl up and take a nap (unlike what Butterfly Rebellion suggest what Stu should be doing, what’s THAT about, btw?) ????
Tabbycat honey – come and have a stroke, I love meeting new pussies.
Purrrr-meow! Ooh, better watch, I’m starting to sound like ‘someone’… ????
muttley
I corrected that, just a slip.
@Tabbycat
it’s a bit like walking into a room where everyone’s having conversations with each other across the room, it’s hard to follow a particular sub-thread (?) between individuals.
It is what makes Wings eh Wings for me. You don’t have to read all the posts, there is no rule that says you have to read them all. I would imagine that the vast majority who view Wings just read the articles.
Oh btw Tabbycat honey – point 2, totally wrong – not sure where the grandson gets that from, I suspect an erudite winger will be along soon to do the Nato Norway NPT stuff x
Muttley&( – I always read you dear.
nuttley 79
I think that some of the posters here are very good at turning over and eviscerating the keich spouted by our political betters (they think)
Paula R
That’s that I thought, just wondering… Hence why I put it to the lovely Wungers to debunk that one 🙂
*Wingers!
Tabbycat, hi. Stick around and comment more. It’s not quite as busy as it was so maybe not so intimidating.
1. I don’t know, I think you’d have to ask them.
2. No. Most members of NATO don’t have nuclear weapons on their soil.
3. The problem with threaded replies is that some people like to read all the comments. If comments are appearing all over the place, above where you are as well as below, in several different threads, it’s impossible. At least with a single thread you know what you have and haven’t read.
You can quote someone’s post from up the thread and then reply to it – people do that all the time.
Personally, I’ve blocked the Butterfly Rebellion thing. It’s a shame because I love the butterfly poster and the image, but they seem to be a group of batshit crazy conspiracy theorists. I’ve had it with explaining why the conspiracy theories don’t fly, nobody’s listening.
Have they been saying Stu should quit? Stu needs a holiday, maybe more of a holiday than he’s currently getting, but we need him to carry on.
Capella
I got same response from 38D so felt the need to respond with email below :
I appreciate your response, however, the perception fostered by Gordon Brown in Scotland (along with the Daily Record) is that he is the champion of this petition. It is not the fact that politicians have signed it.
Mr Brown is touting this petition and offering to present it to the House of Commons as if it were his to do so. Whether this is in fact what comes to pass or not, he is using the petition for political capital. Mr Brown is trying to position himself against the Tory party and the confusion over powers for Scotland. It belies extreme naivety that you do not recognise this in your response.
I ask you again to make public a distancing of yourselves from Mr Browns machinations to use this independent petition for his own political ends
Graeme Doig
Morag
1. I remember just before 18th, when MP pay rises announced, SG I’m sure said they wouldn’t be partaking of pay rise. But I was reading a LOT, and my addled brain wasn’t sure!
2. I thought so, again just wanted to see here if this was the understanding… This seems to be a common sense place to come 🙂
3. Hmm, not quite. I meant I want to be able to reply directly to a user in something they’ve said. It seems a wee but disjointed to me. Maybe it’s just me. It’s not the content, it’s the layout. Does that make sense?
http://techcrunch.com/2014/08/04/epic-reddit-prank-cat-facts-is-now-an-app-that-lets-you-text-troll-your-friends/
My fellow cats
Lol
Tabbycat
You can always request whoever you wish to go to the “Off topic” thread and converse directly with them if you wish.
The key to the threads like this one is that they are helter skelters.
strap in and hold on.
Nightol
I see Lamont was moaning about Salmond bringing in a law, to stop local authorities from chasing up Poll Tax debts, from voters who recently returned to the voting register, for the referendum. I was thinking, is Lamont purposely and knowingly trying to destroy SLAB from the inside? It is either this or a level of sheer incompetence and stupidity not seen in a long time in Scottish politics, and there has been plenty of that down through the years. I am going for the second option. But it just seems very bizarre. Okay, Lamont has to tow the London line to a embarrassing extent, but she actually seems fiercely determined to torpedo SLAB.
Tabbycat honey – this is Wings the only rule is – there aren’t any apart from the one that states “Ronnie Anderson is the best thing since sliced bread” – btw where is he?
Tabby Cat: even if independent, we couldn’t get rid of our WMD’s in Faslane if we wanted to remain a member of NATO. Is this right?
No. Totally incorrect.
Many members of NATO eschew WMDs while adhering to its principles. On the other hand, NATO lost its role decades ago and now is told what to do by the USA. It is highly debateable any country would wish to join NATO and accept it as a puppet of American foreign policy.
NATO moves WMD close to the Russian border on behalf of the USA while the USA screams blue murder if Russia dares protect its border. The USA forgets it was ready to blow up the world when the USSR offered WMD to Cuba.
Placing USA WMD thousands of miles from its own border is, of course, ‘protecting democracy.’
They don’t like it up ’em.
Morag
Meant to say, yessss, the butterfly rebellion IS a bit bonkers. Shame 🙁 But I do find it hard scrolling up and down trying to find the name of the person being referenced in a comment? Ah well. Maybe I’m getting old. Will try harder! 😉
Shrodinger’s Cat
Lol!
I think
“sheer incompetence and stupidity ”
just about sums her up.
My grandson has more self awareness and political nous that JoLa.
Maybe Paula’s pussy has the same?
( Tabbycat – http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/ -its where the party is)
Paula Rose
Ronnie is plotting, probably.
No more Mr Nice Guy.
Grouse Beater
Thank you, I shall stash that away for a no doubt future ‘debate’ with some No friends.
Paula R
I dunno. But I am an ‘Anderson’, I shall send my minions out to hunt him down! 😉
Double dose of Nightol.
@Tabbycat
If you use google chrome as your browser it is very easy to find any name. Just click the 3 bars in the top right hand corner under the X to reveal a menu one of which is find.
Type what you what to find there and all will be revealed.
@BtP:
I’ll gladly peruse your bio. Have done a lot of indo-european linguistics at school so I am not too daunted. Well, as yet.
Your article on disposal of fracking waste is awful. Typical of… I’d have liked to write ‘America’ but unfortunately, I think I’ll have to write ‘all countries’. When there is easy money to earn, human lives rarely matter. I’m happy our minister for environment has claimed once more that the fracking ban in France was uphold.
@Tabbycat:
Hi! A piece of chocolate maybe?
Oops, I forgot that cats cannot metabolize theobromine. Sorry for that and too bad for you. Errr… Stockfish? Mouse? Thrush? Some rodent?
Tabbycat says
“But I do find it hard scrolling up and down trying to find the name of the person being referenced in a comment? Ah well. Maybe I’m getting old. Will try harder!”
If you press Ctrl and F a search box will appear, you can then type or paste in the name/word you want to locate on the page then just choose next or previous and you can soon find the info you want. Works in almost everything in Windows, not sure about other operating systems.
@BtP:
midmigntol?
Your bed’s burning?
Have a great night. Don’t let yourself get bamboozled.
Does newsie thingy allow this sort of flippancy?
Alex Clark
I do not use Google Chrome. I know I probably should, I’m sure it will rejuvenate this old cat – make her fur sleek and shiny, enable her to follow comments, etc… But I am currently trying to regurgitate some chocolate because it contains theobromine, of all things! 😉
@Hood
Well there you go Ctrl F works for me in chrome. Cheers my man.
Hood
I’m on an ipad. How I miss the Ctrl button…
I think the only other member of NATO to have nuclear weapons is France — and they left NATO for a while. I think Scotland should just sign a general common defence agreement with NATO. They need us anyway because there is a gap between Iceland and Norway that they need to fill. And maybe at the same time we could sign a treaty with Russia to ask if they will help us if we are invaded by the ONLY country to invade us in 1000 years — and we all know what that country is!
Tabbycat, dont know anything about Ipad but maybe try F3, it works in windows as well.
Alex,
Yep works in almost anything windows, word docs, pdf etc etc
I always use an F14 – works every time.
Oh sorry – thought we were discussing weapons.
But how do you get rid of it?
edit oo found x top rt thanks for tips.
@Hood
F3 too, just tried it haha. Shows that your never too old to learn. I like it 🙂
Too many effs for me – think I’ll retire.
At FMQs Alex Salmond referred to a Panelbase poll on voting intentions and leaders satisfaction ratings but I dont see this reported anywhere
Not infallible Paula.
Not infallible Paula.
@AuldA
Correcticle !
France is only in NATO when it suits them to be
@ cynical Highlander – eek
@Graeme Doig
You’re much more polite than me! here’s mine:
“Thank you for replying. I am appalled that you are allowing Gordon Brown and the Daily Record to claim ownership of the petition in order to further Labour Party electoral goals. After the scandalous betrayal of the Scottish people in the referendum campaign, in particular the serial lying of Gordon Brown over pensions, hospital transplants and devolution, I will never vote for this neo-liberal farce of a party again. I will now unsubscribe from your organisation as I have no intention of ever supporting another of your petitions.
Please ensure that my name is removed from this petition.”
The Tommy Sheridan interview on livestream earlier this evening can be watched here, and is worth a watch. I even got a question in about George Galloway turing his back on Scotland 🙂
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/CoversationTommySheridan
galamcennalath
Yes Outlander is being enjoyed around the world, except of course the country it was set in.
I’ve been able to watch it online and found it brilliant!
The scenery is beathtaking
It really does put the English in a really shitty light, but that was what the Redcoats were like in the 18th century.
The story takes place in 1743, a couple of years before the ’45.
The series may have had a ‘Braveheart effect, if it had been shown prior to the referendum. But by not showing it, may mean that UK broadcasters have placed themselves in a bit of an awkward place
Well thats 2 weeks exactly(posting this at 22.00) since Scotland gave up its sovereignty. In those two weeks my emotions have been all over the place, but I wont go back in the shortbread tin, im
even more determined to live in a free and independent Scotland.
So warminster bring it on.
Capella.
Dof’s hat. Nice one. Do you mind if i pinch that for my next one as i’m expecting to have to say similar when/if i get the expected unsatisfactory response.
@Graeme Doig says: 2 October, 2014 at 7:30 pm:
“There is no limit to the depths these despicable scum bags down there will go to shaft vulnerable people to put a few extra quid the way of their doners and lobbyists. Contrast that with AS decision today re poll tax arrears.”
There is also, of course, the news item tonight, “Government plans to deduct legal fees from the damages paid to people dying from asbestos exposure”, has been ruled unlawful by the High Court. The Asbestos Victims’ Support Group Forum UK brought the action against Justice Secretary, Chris Grayling who decided to charge 25% of the damages awarded to Mesotheloma sufferers. The news report said, “The Ministry of Justice was disapointed with the judgment”.
How low can this Tory Westminster boorach get?
Went to a nearby YES meeting tonight, expecting maybe a dozen there. I was sadly disappointed.
Must have been about thirty there. Talking about funding to keep the shop open, should it be called YES as that’s only inclusive of the 45, reaching out to other groups, sharing resources, badge maker. People volunteering for tasks. How sad. Don’t they realise this is over? Unionists would be disgusted!
Mind you, according to Ashcroft, only 14% of those that voted NO are actually Unionists. We need another term – maybe the Persuadables?
Panelbase poll on SNP website. It was their poll, so expect MSM to ignore it
Robert Peffers
Is that different from the issue i was referring to in the link from Nana earlier. Sounds very similar. Might be mistaken. I’ve had a look through comments but am going blind trying to find it.
Robert Peffers
Is that different from the issue i was referring to in the link from Nana earlier. Sounds very similar. Might be mistaken. I’ve had a look through comments but am going blind trying to find it.
@ Capella – and Graeme Doig
Two very good replies – they haven’t bothered to get back to me at all yet; I asked them straight away to remove my name, so perhaps they’ve cut me off completely.
Robert Peffers
Talking about asbestos,another blab council.
http://www.fifetoday.co.uk/news/local-headlines/residents-evacuated-as-blaze-destroys-former-burntisland-play-centre-1-3560170
Also getting twitchy fingers. Never double posted before. Maybe time to put the laptop down.
@heraldnomore
Apparently their are still 32% of Scots who intend to vote Labour in Westminster. They must be nuts, you and I have 7 months left to persuade them otherwise. Let’s get to it.
http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2014/oct/panelbase-poll-snp-westminster-and-holyrood-lead
What a Ugandan thinks about British ‘democracy’:
http://www.newvision.co.ug/news/660135-scottish-referendum-malpractices-prove-britain-is-not-more-d.html
It’s getting too much to take. Agree with A.N. The Aberdeen Council Spokesman today on poll tax pursuit tipped me over the edge. Jesus “effing” Ch***t. It’s like an insane parody of what we all knew would happen after a No vote. SNP forever. I really hope we can turn the tables now in my lifetime and be free from this.
Just watching BBC Parliament. What a disgrace the Labour Party is. Johan is clearly out of her depth when debating the FM. When the FM fronts any mutually good proposal they never, ever acknowledge it. Un fecking believable. If only the Devil could cast his net on that motley crue of Traitors to Scotland. Raging!
Dearie me. Guardian Cif positively crawling with bampots and slavering extreme right wingers over Salmond’s Poll Tax legislation. Here is the link for anyone interested in winding them up:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/oct/02/alex-salmond-ban-scottish-councils-chase-historic-poll-tax-debts?commentpage=1
@Morag (8.49) –
‘I’ve blocked the Butterfly Rebellion thing. It’s a shame because I love the butterfly poster and the image, but they seem to be a group of batshit crazy conspiracy theorists.’
Regulars here have become used to seeing that kind of comment from you over the past couple of years, but WOS has gathered many hundreds of thousands of new readers – they may not appreciate your peculiar attitude to fellow-travellers who don’t adhere to your world-view.
Please, please, can you just stop being so rude to people you don’t know the first thing about? It achieves nothing, and embarrasses those who have supported you in other matters.
Seriously Morag, get a grip, eh?
Some words of wisdom here from Mr Marmite…
http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/CoversationTommySheridan?origin=stream_live&mixpanel_id
Robert Louis,
“Seriously, are you folks suggesting we should publicly undermine a good well constructed, authoritative pro indy media outlet run by volunteers”
How does newsnetscotland run by (anonymous) volunteers compare in your opinion with W O S single handedly run by Stuart, with the enthusiastic participation of readers?
I have a very low opinion of both the BBC apologist Derek Bateman and the robust and justified anti-BBC newsnetscotland.
I do not want Stuart and W O S to compromise their no nonsense approach to exposing the unionists’ lies by joining Derek Bateman and newsnetscotland.
James
Dont get angry, get revenge. The de`ils spawn have no mercy.
Chris Graylings working fast, our human rights are going to be fracKed into a British “Bill of Rights”
http://jackofkent.com/2014/10/exclusive-tory-proposals-for-bill-of-rights/
Petitions are a distraction and will get us nowhere.
If we are serious about independence, we have to start boycotting the unionist businesses as much as possible.
Combine this with self help grassroots action aimed at convincing the 63% of Labour voters who voted No.
Don’t seek mainstream media attention to our work – let them remain completely ignorant about it.
If the entire Yes campaigning budget had been spent targetting Labour voters, we would have won.
From hindsight we can say that resources were wasted on targetting the elderly and the middle class.
@ James
About 20 years ago, I met Johann Lamont a couple of times. Despite having previously lived in Glasgow and interacted with my local representatives, I was still, naively, astounded that someone who came across so poorly could have been elected to Glasgow City Council. Later, of course, I realized that far from being an impediment, it is almost a prerequisite.
That has been Labour’s problem in the Scottish Parliament since the beginning; a significant percentage of their MSPs in 1999 came directly from having been (not very effective) councillors, and only a few – Dewar, McLeish and a handful more – had Westminster experience. All of those have now gone (except Malcolm Chisholm), and the most ambitious of the non-MPs have gone the other way. This was exacerbated by the rout in 2011 and their decision not to double-up on the lists due to over-confidence (presumably), so that those who were defeated in the constituencies were out altogether.
It makes for a very poor team – which is a shame for their constituents.
@Rock (10.29) –
Great link. The photo-gallery is, with hindsight, very moving.
Cheers (sniff…)
I meant to post this URL before, Curtice about the appetite for more Devo:
http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2014/09/done-vow-public-opinion-devolution/
“It thus seems that the public’s appetite for more devolution extends much further than anything proposed by the three unionist parties so far”
Seems to me Scotland’s three Unionist parties either suck it up or get sucked up and spat out. Ptawww.
Robert Peffers
I read about Chris Grayling earlier – instead of being appalled and amazed, I just felt numb. In their logic those suffering from asbestosis or mesotholma are finished their productive lives and are just a drain. It is the same logic the nazis, (the real ones) took to its conclusion with the mass slaughter of mentally ill and disabled folk.
It’s all OK though because Dave is gearing up to cut our taxes! To secure victory for the Evil Rich he is taking those lucky bastards on the minimum wage out of income tax altogether. Hurrah! I calculated that’s worth an extra £40 a month for them which will surely go some way to offset all the other cuts and price rises.
Of course there must be a quid pro quo, Clarice, so they give someone on £50,000 a year a wee boost to the tune of (I make it) a tax cut of £140 a month.
Wait a minute – that canny be right. The dude on ‘middle income’ £50k gets the increased allowance increase as well so that’s closer to £180 a month better off!
We’re better together they told us. What a load of shite. Funny thing is Robert, there should nae have been a single minister, COS, Catholic, Wee Free or any denomination, not a single solitary one could have voted No following Christ’s teachings.
I heard some of them were telling their flock to vote No. I’m no really religious anymore, but may God have mercy on their souls. They sided with the rich, the privileged, the amoral warmongers against the dispossessed, the needy, the honest working men and women of this country.
I suppose once the fracking begins in earnest, it’ll no be the temple curtain that’s torn asunder instead it will be big fuck off cracks down the middle of the apse or transept or whatever.
I must be losing my mind
For the folk saying that Nicola Sturgeon signed the 38degrees petition I think that might be misinformation because on twitter she is saying why sign a petition for something that was promised.
I think we need to be careful over information put out there.
As for 38 degrees themselves, they are also on twitter trying to get more signatures for that poll and myself and others have pointed out they are not doing their reputations any good because etc etc but quite frankly they are ignoring the input.
muttley79
Done 🙂 Private Walker felt like a bit of fun and a day out at the SC-side …
@Tam Jardine
Not just you that’s losing your mind I fear.
Now that Scotland is off the menu and no longer reported on I’m watching the talking heads on the telly spout off about how to cut £46 billion of spending without any pain.
Deary me, this kind of shit has been kept off the telly for the past year just in case it persuaded anyone to vote Yes.
I despair and can have no sympathy at all for those that chose to vote No. I hope everyone of them regrets is for the rest of their lives.
My aim in life from now on is to shame them whenever possible, they need to learn the lesson of their folly.
I wonder if the lab controlled councils had a meeting and decided that if they chase poll tax again it would likely take a few thousand off the electoral roll in advance of the next election. A high percentage of these would have been yes voters. Am I being too cynical?
BtP
I’m with Muttley79 – I am missing your old avatar too! It had gravitas in a Panda sort of way!
@Tabbycat says: 2 October, 2014 at 8:38 pm:
“2. Ghandi’s grandson was in Edinburgh (today? It’s Ghandi’s birthday today btw) and he mentions that, even if independent, we couldn’t get rid of our WMD’s in Faslane if we wanted to remain a member of NATO. Is this right?
Sorry but there is no way to do this without a long post.
No, Tabbycat, he is wrong. There’s utter claptrap spouted over this subject. We are back at basics over this one. The, “U-N-I-T-E-D . K-I-N-G-D-O-M”, describes exactly what the Union is. There is a Treaty of Union Document to prove it so. It is a Kingdom – not a country and a kingdom is a royal realm. Westminster is the Parliament of that, bipartite, Kingdom. Like a marriage, a bipartite union ends, (disunites), if either partner leaves the union.
So the Westminster claim that Westminster will continue as an rUK is mince. Even if they got away with the mince it would still not mean Scotland could not be in NATO. Here’s the logic : –
Only three NATO member states are Nuclear armed members. NATO’s Anti-Proliferation rules state that all non-nuclear weaponed countries are barred from developing nuclear weapons. So if Westminster is the continued NATO member then Scotland is a independent non-nuclear weapon country and cannot have nuclear weapons. However, if the two Kingdoms split as equal partners then the UK has become disunited and so does not exist. Both former kingdoms are thus new non-nuclear weapon states and neither can be nuclear weaponed states.
In any case Scotland’s territorial waters and Continental shelf are what is known as, “The North Atlantic Gap”, through which a Russian Fleet or flight would have to cross to attack the West, (and of course vise Versa), so no NATO or UN organisation is going to refuse an independent Scotland Membership. Mind you, if Scotland becomes independent the , three country, Kingdom of England loses control of the North Atlantic Gap – Which also explains why the two disunited states will co-operate on defence on Scottish independence.
“3. This is about Wings website, more a bit of feedback/would like to see…
I can only explain what I personally do to make following comments through a conversation easier.
You will see I copy and paste the heading first, “@Tabbycat says: 2 October, 2014 at 8:38 pm:”. So it shows I am replying to, “@Tabbycat” and Tabbycat’s comment replied to is at , “2 October, 2014 at 8:38 pm:”. So anyone can track back to what & who I’m replying to.
By use of quote marks I have also repeated at least part of the question or comment I’m replying to followed by my own reply.
It is not the convention here, though. However, it does make following a comment thread a bit easier.
Sorry that was a bit long.
@Donald mac
No Donald, you are absolutely correct in your assessment in my opinion.
Rock says:
From hindsight we can say that resources were wasted on targetting the elderly and the middle class.
I’m not sure I agree with you on that; I don’t think we did manage to target the elderly and the middle class because we didn’t have the resources to combat the MSM, or indeed the understanding until it was too late of exactly how ruthlessly determined they were to preserve the status quo.
Besides which, by saying that we should have focused on Labour voters, you assume that the elderly and middle class weren’t Labour supporters. In England that is mainly true, but I would argue that in Scotland there has historically been widespread support for Labour among those two demographics; the results for General Elections over the past fifty years should demonstrate that, if nothing else. It was precisely because SLAB were telling them to vote No, along with PRAVDA and its ilk, that most of them chose the path of fear over hope. The minority that were Tories were never going to vote Yes anyway and were a lost cause.
bugger – I didn’t mean to put ALL of that post in italics.
Tam Jardine
You are not losing your mind reality is a hard thing to come to terms with. If people were truly religious which to me means compassion, humanity and true empathy with our fellow man/woman
government as it is today would have been torn down centurys ago.
Our only religion wether we like it or not is capitalism and self interest.
If anyone wants to help, SSP Ayrshire is having a stall, just for an hour or so, in Bridgegate, Irvine, from 11.00 a.m., then a meeting in the Turf Bar, Main St, from mid-day.
If you’re a ‘new’ SSP member (perhaps doing shift-work) this day-time meeting’s specifically for you, so please drop by the stall or come to The Turf – get to meet some of the people in your area who feel likewise and want to do something.
(SSP has recruited over 2,600 new members since the indy-ref result.)
Ian, much as I love you, you’ve no right to tell me what to post or not to post on Wings. These vote-rigging conspiracy theories are potentially very damaging to the Yes movement going forward. They make us look absolutely unhinged, to be honest – and that sticks to all of us, not just the fruitcakes. And I’m perfectly prepared to go on saying so.
There’s a new one out. A video which starts as if it’s going to be a serious examination of what went wrong, but then gradually settles into a completely demented conspiracy allegation that, to quote William Duguid, would require the entire polling and counting station staff to have been kidnapped and replaced by clones of Derren Brown. The particularly worrying thing about that one is the very high production values and sympathetic, professional voice-over. It’s going to suck people in. And they’re crowd-funding to promote more of the same.
I think it’s a crying shame that Robin McAlpine’s super article for Bella on 14th September (http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/09/14/the-butterfly-rebellion/) has had its concept and title hijacked by these people. And the lovely poster itself, that I was showing to friends last June, and had in my window for several weeks.
If you choose to believe this nonsense, and retreat down the rabbit hole into a comforting belief that we really won the vote and it was just these all-powerful spooks bribing and coercing our friends and neighbours to interfere with the ballot papers that thwarted us, I can’t stop you. I can however express my opinion of this damaging behaviour, and you have no right to tell me what I can’t say here.
Can anyone advise when the next major public YES gathering is. And where it is?
@Tam Jardine 11.21pm I agree with every word. I too heard various religious leaders were telling congregations to vote No and preserve the Union – which I personally think is disgusting, self serving and insulting, and I hope some attendees will see that.
I also think that what has been coming out this week from the Tories is really quite frightening, and its not wonder they want to scrap Human Rights laws – they are constantly challenged under them due to their constant attack on the vulnerable/benefits. I think the UK govt. should like they want a police state.
@alex clark
Hopefully Alex Salmond proposing new law to stop them chasing the debts will keep them on the electoral register and many no voters will see clearly that AS and SNP are the good guys.
Must admit that these last two weeks or so have been difficult. To disassociate yourself from what was a long campaign has been hard. Not just for me of course but all of us.
That includes you Morag and Ian.
I’ve joined the SSP as the fist step, next I’ll be back on the newspaper boards ripping the pish out of the arguments of the dissenters. Now has been a time for reflection, tomorrow is the time to get stuck back in.
Amazingly 32% of voters in Scotland still intend to vote Labour in 2015, in my area I will work to half that. Everyone else just do what you can.
The line in our church was that the church had to be strictly neutral. Someone said to me they thought the minister was a Yes but I really couldn’t tell.
The session clerk who rules one of the smaller churches in the linkage with a rod of iron is classic Labour “solidarity with the working class in England” though. Absolutely hard-line to the point of seeming brainwashed. A university professor. Bougeois intellectual Labour is a curse. You’d think intelligent people used to thinking for themselves could work out the glaring fallacies in that one.
@Tabbycat says: 2 October, 2014 at 8:56 pm:
“Hmm, not quite. I meant I want to be able to reply directly to a user in something they’ve said. It seems a wee but disjointed to me. Maybe it’s just me. It’s not the content, it’s the layout. Does that make sense?”
Sure, Tabbycat, it makes perfect sense. I’ll try again with just one topic to answer. If you are just making a comment there is no problem you just comment but your comment is shown on the blog with your name and a time stamped heading. So if you want to reply to someone else’s time stamped comment you type : – “@” and then cut & paste the person’s header to begin your reply. See above /|\.
Then you use the HTML italics tab and quotes to show what part of their comment you are replying to. Follow this with your reply. Simples!
Now everyone sees who & what you are replying to and if they want to see the whole comment you are replying to they can scroll back to the exact time shown on the time stamp at the top. Meanwhile the new comment now also has a time stamp on the bottom to scroll back down to.
Ian Brotherhood
Tend to agree wth you there.
By all means continue to offer your crtique on issues Morag but better to refrain from being so patronising and dismissive of other sections of our movement.
A.N.Surgent
I just spent half an hour writing a post railing against the government and clergy, I was looking at changing nationality and burning my passport; joining the labour party or the BBC to destroy them from within, cancelling my Clydesdale bank account and cashing in my pension with Aviva in retribution. And I signed a petition yesterday that said Gordon Brown go fuck yourself.
Now all these things may not come to pass, but I feel a little less of a capitalist consumer slave that I did before the campaign began and I am not alone. But I take your point.
Or you could just copy the part you’re replying to and put italics tags round it. That works if you just need to indicate what you’re referring to.
And that way people reading down the thread will read what you’ve typed, whereas they might not if they’d already passed the point where you inserted it as a “reply”.
It also prevents people crowding the first comment or two with replies, so as to get their post near the beginning of the comments. I’ve seen that on the Guardian, and it’s quite disruptive.
@Morag –
I’ve already stated, many threads ago, that I saw nothing, as a counting agent in the Citadel, that concerned me – with that in mind, your final paragraph is bang out of order. (Never mind – I know better than to request, let alone expect, any form of apology.)
I stayed out of the stushie which erupted BTL after WOS published Doug’s article, and I also stayed out of the ‘discussion’ in which you – almost single-handedly – managed to disrupt the following four or five threads.
I didn’t dictate what you can or cannot say. I am asking, politely (for the second time) that you stop being so rude about fellow Yes-campaigners who don’t share your version of ‘the truth’, and that you resist the temptation to mount personal hobby-horses on the flimsiest of pretexts.
Graeme, I’m not telling you how to express yourself, so you might return the favour.
The stuff coming out in this vote-rigging conspiracy theory isn’t just batshit crazy, it’s potentially very damaging to us all at this difficult time. They’re not “sections of our movement” to me. They’re a threat, even though they probably don’t realise it.
And Ian, I’m asking you to stop butting in to tell me what I can and can’t say. I did not “single-handedly” do anything at all to any threads. If I never had to mention the subject again it would be too soon. Unfortunately there was a time when every single bloody thread was infested by people jumping in and repeating all the already-chewed-to-bits allegations from previous threads, as if they were brand new.
Now you may think it’s fine and dandy for these allegations to be aired all over the place without anyone uttering a word of criticism, but I disagree. I would have shut up in an instant if others had left the subject alone, but they wouldn’t.
So please stop being the guardian of what can and can’t be said on Wings.
osakisushi
As far as I know the next major(I hope it is) is the hopeoverfear rally in George(Freedom) Square on the 12th Oct 12-3pm. If any one else has posted this I apoligise,still in a half hour time lag.
I would urge as many people as can, to turn up. We are still here and not going away.
@Morag –
Aye, okay, what-evs…
Yes, whatever. Just bear in mind that you’re trying to silence me, not the other way round.
Tam Jardine
Im as much a slave to capitalism as everyone in this country, hope you didn`t take what I said personally. The hypocrisy in which we all live our lives can be staggering. Principles are costly things to adhere to, but all we can do is try and swim against the tide.
Anyone that voted YES is a hero in my book. Haven`t had a passport
in many a year, I want a Scottish one 🙂
I watched 1st Ministers Question time and couldn’t believe Labours glum looks when AS announced amnesty on poll tax. They had faces like fizz. No change their you say!
As a trade unionist who fought the poll tax, I punched the air with delight.
Now joined the SNP.
Well done Mr Salmond, democracy at work, now let’s go after the real tax dodgers.
It wasn’t Morag who single-handedly disrupted 4 or 5 threads, it was posters who kept on with the idea that 800,000 postal votes had been sent down to London, that votes had been subsitutued in sealed boxes with the help of voted out magicians from Britain’s Got Talent, that a bag of YES votes had been left conveniently beside a bin instead of being swiftly stuffed IN the bin, that counters in all 32 unitary authorities had been body-swappped for MI5 agents, and that the moon was made of green YES cheese and had been stuck on top of a pile of dark side NO votes.
Morag practically single-handedly tried to stop 4 or 5 threads being conspiracy disrupted with what I’m happy to call “wacky conspiracy theories”. In my days on the mostly US dominated UseNet, I saw many similar ones. Most of them far more authentically done than the totally amateur ones flying around at the moment.
😀
Morag
The thread stuffing tactic is used on the Herald too. At times I’ve replied to a pro-indy post at the top, just to minimise that, or even replied to myself at the top for the same reason. If it’s a Unionist post first, it’s worth putting a good reply in, even if it has nothing to do with the posting!
Hi Wingers,
cannae keep up with you lot but anyway here’s a couple of random points.
Regarding Butterfly Rebellion etc
Skim read Doug s piece.
Was also at a count, also watched seals going on boxes.
There were plenty opportunities.
Was there motive?
If you can’t cope with possibility of fraud fine but don’t dictate to others.
8 police enquiries underway.
Second point, What do folks reckon to Scottish Statesman which has appeared over night to fill the gap of slick professional online paper appealing beyond the reach of Wings or NNS?
Great or too good?
Thirdly, accept NNS (and Bella) for what they are and do. We all have our own angles and that makes our movement what it is.
We don’t have to agree on everything.
We do have to keep pushing on towards Independence.
A night out would be good btw…
@ Graham Doig
Feel free. I’ve been out for a few hours so didn’t reply earlier. Also, I enjoyed the interview with Tommy Sheridan. There’s plenty media without the BBBC!
Another test
Did you pass? Congratulations!
We’ll see if the Avatar changes back, by popular request.
ok now?
https://twitter.com/PeterMurrell
Referendum Day, @theSNP membership was 25,642. Two weeks on it’s 75,759. Join: https://my.snp.org/join
75,759 out of 1.6 million
What’s keepin ye ?
Empty your mind of any of those secret fearful thoughts,
you know the kind I mean,
the one’s that make you say
‘Oh, A don’t know. A’m no sure’.
From your heart clear out any anxieties
for a faint heart never won a fair lady
and an Independent Scotland is the fairest of all !
Join Scotland’s army for Independence
JOIN THE SNP, THE GREENS OR SSP.
and do it now.
Go on, you can do it.
https://my.snp.org/system/files/…/Membership%20application%20form.p…
https://my.greenparty.org.uk/civicrm/membership/joining
http://www.scottishsocialistparty.org/join-us/
Test
switched from chrome to firefox – waste of time
uploading comments still a mystery
manandboy
I think that Wings has been and still is under a pretty intensive DDOS attack.
Part of the way that manifests itself to us, the Great Unwashed, is a reduction in load rate, refresh rate and sometimes things like Avatars.
The white background is always last to load and when the sticks I know something is wrong. I switch to lading Munguin’s Republic and if it loads immediately, I know it is specific to something here.
We just need to hang on until Stu has had his R & R and gets back in the saddle.
Tabbycat says
A tip if you are on an apple mobile device. Type the name in the URL address bar and scroll down the suggestions that appear – at the bottom of the list will be an ‘on this page’ option – click that!
Test 2
well, whadya know, 2 tests got through
but nothing else.
manandboy
Have you cleared your cache or are you posting from a device you do not use habitually, or even from a different location.
If there is any one of these you may trigger a second layer of security and posts could be redirected to Stu, who is probably lying drunk on the beach, if he has any sense.
Don’t worry, it isn’t personal, unless you are on Windows 8, which made me buy a Mac. I believe Windows 10 will be launched later this year.
Microsoft = Bellends United
@BtP: You reverted to your earlier form?
@Tabbycat: ‘Theobromine’ means ‘victual of the gods’. I’m sorry you’ll have to choose between being a cat or a god. Both seem to be exclusive. I apologize for Bastet.
@Schrödinger’s cat: Yep, De Gaulle was very leery of the Americans (and was eager to sell French technologies to the former USSR, like the color TV system SECAM), so he decided to kick the butt of all the NATO forces in France. Then Sarkozy decided we should join again. The context is not the same as it was back in the 50’s and 60’s. But I still don’t see what was the point.
At any rate, I’d be disappointed if a future Scottish government chose to keep militaries. There are thousand better ways of using money than buying weapons are paying people to use them.
My last comment is awaiting moderation!
FFS
Just remember, it is not personal. Probably some profanity filter like mentioning Stu and drunk in the same sentence.
Wings’ flight feathers damaged
hope they repair soon
a lot of very important flying still to do.
Still, now we know what John McTernan is doing.
The Gentleman Panda has returned, by popular demand.
Test.
I was feeling left out 🙁
Night all!
@BtP:
Is it a gentleman panda or a gentlepanda man?
BTW, I wrote: There are thousand better ways of using money than buying weapons are paying people to use them.
I meant “than buying weapons AND paying people…”. Sorry for the flub.
Schrödinger’s cat says:
My fellow cats
You cant call yourself a cat,
your dead
aren’t you?
or are you?
Paula-Rose says
“Tabbycat honey – this is Wings the only rule is – there aren’t any apart from the one that states “Ronnie Anderson is the best thing since sliced bread” – btw where is he?”
Setting up optics in the new bar in his shed(I hope) 🙂
Cynicalhighlander says
“Should of added.”
Dear sweet Jesus
should HAVE
dear God
SHOULD HAVE
Manandboy says
“Wait till Elizabeth II hears that!”
Do think she’ll go homeward tae think again?
BtP says
“I’ll do a straw poll in a few days. Last time I changed it I was besieged by ladies asking for the bow tie version of me to be reinstalled.”
I vote for the bow tie
very smart.
Muttley79 says
“It is what makes Wings eh Wings for me. You don’t have to read all the posts, there is no rule that says you have to read them all. I would imagine that the vast majority who view Wings just read the articles.”
Have you ever tried that Muttley?
its like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfghq2fI1A
Paula-Rose says
“Too many effs for me – think I’ll retire.”
Dont be silly, your far too young to retire
Oh that kind of retire?
I’ll eh, just get my wee willie winkie nightgoon.
Edward says
“The series may have had a ‘Braveheart effect, if it had been shown prior to the referendum. But by not showing it, may mean that UK broadcasters have placed themselves in a bit of an awkward place”
What?
here you mean?
http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/_User-folders/vBulletinImg/2008/8/%7B065E5E3D-FA1C-41B3-9E6B-A53D255DE90E%7D.jpeg
Go on you cowardly bastards jump,
Its been done before
Schrödinger’s cat says:
My fellow cats
You cant call yourself a cat,
your dead
aren’t you?
or are you?
Paula-Rose says
“Tabbycat honey – this is Wings the only rule is – there aren’t any apart from the one that states “Ronnie Anderson is the best thing since sliced bread” – btw where is he?”
Setting up optics in the new bar in his shed(I hope) 🙂
Cynicalhighlander says
“Should of added.”
Dear sweet Jesus
should HAVE
dear God
SHOULD HAVE
Manandboy says
“Wait till Elizabeth II hears that!”
Do think she’ll go homeward tae think again?
BtP says
“I’ll do a straw poll in a few days. Last time I changed it I was besieged by ladies asking for the bow tie version of me to be reinstalled.”
I vote for the bow tie
very smart.
Muttley79 says
“It is what makes Wings eh Wings for me. You don’t have to read all the posts, there is no rule that says you have to read them all. I would imagine that the vast majority who view Wings just read the articles.”
Have you ever tried that Muttley?
its like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfghq2fI1A
Paula-Rose says
“Too many effs for me – think I’ll retire.”
Dont be silly, your far too young to retire
Oh that kind of retire?
I’ll eh, just get my wee willie winkie nightgoon.
Edward says
“The series may have had a ‘Braveheart effect, if it had been shown prior to the referendum. But by not showing it, may mean that UK broadcasters have placed themselves in a bit of an awkward place”
What?
here you mean?
http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/_User-folders/vBulletinImg/2008/8/%7B065E5E3D-FA1C-41B3-9E6B-A53D255DE90E%7D.jpeg
Go on you cowardly bastards jump,
Its been done before!
I have to add a line to this post so it isn’t a “duplicate comment”
I’m going to start putting my comments on a notepad first because I’m sick of losing long posts, however using the back arrow I found my post was still in the box (you write it in) so I copied it,
so here goes!
Schrödinger’s cat says:
My fellow cats
You cant call yourself a cat,
your dead
aren’t you?
or are you?
Paula-Rose says
“Tabbycat honey – this is Wings the only rule is – there aren’t any apart from the one that states “Ronnie Anderson is the best thing since sliced bread” – btw where is he?”
Setting up optics in the new bar in his shed(I hope) 🙂
Cynicalhighlander says
“Should of added.”
Dear sweet Jesus
should HAVE
dear God
SHOULD HAVE
Manandboy says
“Wait till Elizabeth II hears that!”
Do think she’ll go homeward tae think again?
BtP says
“I’ll do a straw poll in a few days. Last time I changed it I was besieged by ladies asking for the bow tie version of me to be reinstalled.”
I vote for the bow tie
very smart.
Muttley79 says
“It is what makes Wings eh Wings for me. You don’t have to read all the posts, there is no rule that says you have to read them all. I would imagine that the vast majority who view Wings just read the articles.”
Have you ever tried that Muttley?
its like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dJfghq2fI1A
Paula-Rose says
“Too many effs for me – think I’ll retire.”
Dont be silly, your far too young to retire
Oh that kind of retire?
I’ll eh, just get my wee willie winkie nightgoon.
Edward says
“The series may have had a ‘Braveheart effect, if it had been shown prior to the referendum. But by not showing it, may mean that UK broadcasters have placed themselves in a bit of an awkward place”
What?
here you mean?
http://www.renaultforums.co.uk/_User-folders/vBulletinImg/2008/8/%7B065E5E3D-FA1C-41B3-9E6B-A53D255DE90E%7D.jpeg
Go on you cowardly bastards jump,
Its been done before!
I have to add a line to this post so it isn’t a “duplicate comment”
I’m going to start putting my comments on a notepad first because I’m sick of losing long posts, however using the back arrow I found my post was still in the box (you write it in) so I copied it,
so here goes!
Third attempt, so I have to ad yet another line to stop it being seen as (yet again) another duplicate comment.
test-ing
Well whaddaja know
you wait for one post then three come along at once. ;(
looking like a massive DDOS attack is underway!
Surprise surprise
The Rev takes a well earned break and we get the biggest ddos attack ever on this site!
@john king
Grammar is double dutch to me as are prepositions etc even constructing semi coherent sentences is a plus be honored. 😉
@John King:
@John King:
@John King:
You you you suffer suffer suffer from from from triplication triplication triplication ? ? ?
“The extra borrowing cost is lower than the expected premium if Scotland were to be independent.
But Oxford Economics, a private consultancy, has published analysis saying it would be higher than UK borrowing because there is no borrowing track record and the market for smaller country bonds is less liquid.
It also said that if the prospect of Scottish independence is seen as strengthening once more, there could be more risk associated with Holyrood borrowing.”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-29469347
Wow! They just don’t know when to stop.
RefTV – In Conversation with James Aitken
RefTV in Conversation. Kevin Robertson welcomes James Aitken into the studio to discuss fiscal autonomy, the “Vow” and Devo Max and where the new powers offered by the the three unionist parties fit on the scale.
@Wee Alex. Yes you are right re the glum faces. Not only that, radio Scotland done their usual and managed to give an Aberdeenshire council man free reign to say how shite an idea it was. No chance for any other councillor from the Greens or SNP to put across another opinion. Usual bias and just so obvious. sad thing is I expect such ‘reporting’.
@John King:
if a DDOS attack was underway, you could not access this page.
I have no precise idea as to why the comments take so long to be displayed. It can be a protection mechanism (avoid repeated postings) or it can be a bug in the underlying database. There’s no way to tell.
You you you suffer suffer suffer from from from triplication triplication triplication ? ? ?
Wow! This place is bigger than I thought.
@ Balaaargh says:
The BBC has been given orders not to stop.
They know that they have not won and now they are really shitting themselves.
Not the Tories, Labour or what’s the other one but the real owners.
They are keeping the pressure up expecting Round 2.
tartanpigsy@ 1:34am re The Scottish Statesman:
Early days, of course, but first impressions are it seems quite dry and the main page seems very ‘busy’. But I will keep looking as what’s important will be what they say (and with a few writers there, it may be that some adopt tones that I enjoy a bit more anyway). In essence, another voice is always welcome and may supply me with that bit knowledge I didn’t have before. Other people may well enjoy the style anyway since, as people have been discussing on this thread, different things appeal to different people. One article on there, discussing the 2015 GE, was an interesting read, though I enjoyed more what the writer had to say about UKIP’s election prospects (0 seats…and I could accept that, as I have seen polls suggesting they could get 21% of the vote in GE and end up with no seats still!) than the SNP’s (not beating Labour in Scotland, which I clearly hope is wrong opinion in end).
I have just watched Mark the taxi driver on youtube – the pitch is difficult on my ears but the man is right and he cheered me up , but then I am particularly down at the moment.
Big business bypassed democracy in the Scottish referendum
https://archive.today/esJQn
o/t radio “Scotland” call kaye talking/attacking AS on Poll tax debt Wipe-out
Supporters of Wipe-out talked down/over same bbcbias shit different day
@Morag
I think it’s probably easier if we ignore and do not reply to the wack-jobs doing the rounds about the conspiracy theories….I am about to contradict myself, but I hear the Wolf woman? Can’t remember her first name, is coming to Scotland with her evidence…I hope she runs it past an actual detective who points out the folly of her ways before she makes herself look like an utter idiot.
Labour in Aberdeen are really struggling, they are opposing the poll tax thing in order to try and win votes off the tories in aberdeen. Anne Begg has a majority of 3,500, the libs were 2nd to her and their vote has collapsed, with the majority going to SNP, the tories were 2nd. Throw in Labour voters turning to SNP and you have an SNP win in Aberdeen South. Which is amazing, I’d imagine this will happen all over the place, Labour and the Tories fighting for the same voters.
Commons minister: Holyrood will have to wait three years for new powers in full
https://archive.today/F080o
AuldA @ 8.38
That would be fair enough if the (delayed ) posts eventually appeared but over the last week (which coincidentally?) the Rev has been off on holiday, but I along with many others have seen posts disappear never to be seen again repeatedly over the period,
No I think it IS a DDOS!
“Following the referendum on independence, Scotland may be given the freedom to borrow more from markets, probably at a premium over gilts. Based on evidence from Spanish regions and Canadian provinces, we think the premium would probably be less than 1% (absent disruptive events), equating to an affordable £10m for every £1bn borrowed. Indeed, the Basque Country has a lower yield than the Spanish sovereign. But examples of sub-sovereign premiums blowing up are scary. Valencia and Murcia’s premium over Spain topped 8% in mid-2012. More recently Puerto Rico’s yields reached 10% amid fears of default. Fiscal responsibility is the key. Or else.”
From the public portion of the report at http://www.oxfordeconomics.com/my-oxford/publications/278506
Interesting that it doesn’t quite match what the BBC says. Am I surprised? Of course not. As we all know, the status quo is good. Must follow the status quo…
cynicalHighlander @8.11
That wasn’t meant to come across as lecturing btw,
as Morag is oft heard say, irony doesn’t come across to well in t,internet. 🙂
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-fracking-industry-bosses-at-heart-of-coalition-8707589.html
Nana Smith says
“Commons minister: Holyrood will have to wait three years for new powers in full”
Excellent news! That’s what we need to hear. Within that 3 years is WM2015 & Edin2016. So before they get near delivering there will be a new pro-Indy government in Edinburgh, we might hold the balance of power in WM, the Unionists may have no mandate to rule from London, and the lies on more powers will have been laid bare.
All brings a nice rosy feeling!
aaarh
Comment disappeared!
Who moved my cheese?
@john king
Being a cynic I haven’t a clue about that.
Re page refresh I find f5, stop, f5 wait if nothing a third time usually works.
@Nana
Nice one Nana. Yet more delays and as galamcennalath says that buys Scotland time to put in place a government with teeth. Make Scotland a ungovernable by those who would rob us blind.
trying to get on GMS to ask them to explain WHY Gifford is so keen to pursue people for £425 million in unpaid taxes when the HMRC wrote off 15 billion in unpaid taxes by Vodaphone
Labour/Unionists in Aberdeen, have signed up to £107Million of debt Muse Broad Street scheme, which will take 30 years to clear. They rejected the majority supported UTG pedestrianised scheme which would have been financed with £80Million from Ian Wood and a low interest loan from Scottish Gov and been thirty tines cheaper. They are spending £33Million renovating an Art Gallery and destroying the unique marbles stairs.They are a bunch of idiots. Last time they nearly bankrupted the City. They should be sanctioned.