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The Sirens

Posted on February 04, 2017 by

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  1. 04 02 17 07:56

    The Sirens | speymouth

328 to “The Sirens”

  1. Arthur's Seat says:

    Brilliant as usual Chris.

    There’ll be no need for a wee boat soon with the on time and under budget fantastic new bridge nearly finished.

  2. jimnarlene says:

    Wind and pish.
    Which one’s wind, and which one’s pish.

  3. Arthur's Seat says:

    … I omitted to mention the new bridge has wind deflectors, maybe there will be some left over for use at Holyrood?

  4. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ah! The Sirens of Subservience howling at the moon.
    Excellent!

  5. manandboy says:

    The Tories and Labour – a must to avoid for all who wish to ensure a safe journey for any Scottish project.
    The LibDems? – they can be safely ignored as being no threat to anyone, as, politically, they are just soft toys.

  6. Stoker says:

    Hopefully they’re all heading into the Gulf of Corryvreckan.

  7. manandboy says:

    Chris Cairns – Scotland’s pre-eminent political cartoonist, by popular acclaim. May end up decorating church ceilings.

  8. Stoker says:

    Hopefully they’re all heading into the Gulf of Corryvreckan.

    Sorry, the two on the rocks i meant.
    Look, Dippy’s even daring Mad Murdo to go first.

  9. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Wee Indy will not like that one – Grand Master Murdo and not her representing the Ruth Harrison (Don’t Mention Conservative) Party.

  10. Conan the Librarian says:

    The Sirens were meant to be dangerous and women. Murdo fails miserably on both counts.

  11. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ok Conan – though I do believe he behaves like an auld wifie sometimes.

  12. manandboy says:

    OT, but not quite.

    We now live in an age of alternative facts, fake news, and, let’s not forget the political lie – made famous by Alistair Carmichael.
    The latest, I suggest, is democracy, as distinct from true democracy.

    Democracy, or rogue democracy by its other name, is what we see at work in IndyRef14, UKGE15, EURef16 & US Presidential Election 16.
    All based on campaigns built on bare-faced lying, fear mongering, and propaganda, with the follow-on demand that the will of the people who were duped must be respected.
    This rogue democracy is what has been installed in the UK by the Tories and their Unionist allies, Labour, LibDems & UKIP. We are on the way to polling stations which are manned by people with guns.
    It is time that this particular piece of very dirty political washing was hung out to dry.

  13. Almannysbunnet says:

    Awe the SlabCon alliance failed. What a shame. Never mind Kezia I’m sure there will be other opportunities for Murd’oh, Trumplike, to give you a “helping” hand.

  14. Ghillie says:

    Good one Chris = )

    That’s not carping from the sidelines!

    That’s isolation! Red Tory/Blue tory style!

  15. Baldeagle58 says:

    Great to see you back Chris. I’ve missed you over the last couple of weeks!
    Brilliant work as ever!

  16. Stoker says:

    manandboy wrote on 4 February, 2017 at 8:32 am:

    “We now live in an age of alternative facts, fake news, and, let’s not forget the political lie – made famous by Alistair Carmichael. The latest, I suggest, is democracy, as distinct from true democracy.”

    Pedantic point coming up, we don’t live in a true democracy, never have and we never will for as long as there is an unelected monarch. So yeah, it’s another lie, myth or whatever one calls it.

  17. Taranaich says:

    Good stuff. I really should get back to doing my own political cartoons.

  18. Les Wilson says:

    I think his wind should have came from the back, little fart that he is. Another Tory worm and they have many.

  19. Arthur Martin says:

    Krazy Kez and Mad Murdo carping from the sidelines.

  20. Westminster Windbags.The sooner they are rid the better.

  21. Hey, Murdo!

    Careful you dont slip on any lentils.

  22. Robert Peffers says:

    @Conan the Librarian says: 4 February, 2017 at 8:14 am

    “The Sirens were meant to be dangerous and women. Murdo fails miserably on both counts.”

    And there are doubts about the other Siren on both counts too.

  23. galamcennalath says:

    Aye, the trap of powers over income tax didn’t catch the Scottish Government. Or, as Chris cleverly puts it, they weren’t tempted onto the rocks.

    Smith and the Scotland Act were a weak almost irrelevant response to their 2014 promises. But despite that, they still embedded the temptation to simply negate Tory cut backs by raising Scottish income tax. If proof were needed, we are dealing with nasty underhand scumbags. They would break Scotland on the rocks just to keep her in the Union.

  24. Joemcg says:

    I suppose we are past the rough wooing period it’s now the Falloney war. Boom Boom! Well better than Ullman..

  25. Bob MACK says:

    Their purpose was to drive mariners mad and cause the ship to crash onto rocks and thus destruction. Exactly what the Yoon are trying to do to the SNP at any cost to the Scottish people.

    Brilliant depiction Chris.

    Perhaps when Scotland is free ,we could bolt them to the roof of emergency vehicles to clear the route.

  26. Breeks says:

    Not very good with the gushing praise bit, but I really do think all of these cartoons really are a cut above the rest.

    And by better than the rest, I don’t just mean the crass poison pen shite like Steve Bell in the guardian, nor even the famously provocative Charlie Hebdo cartoons. I mean in the total history of political satire in caricature. Chris is right up there with the very, very best.

    I’m sure there are fledgling cartoonists who see what Chris Cairns does, and does regularly, who are putting away their pens and ink because they just know they will never be that good.

    We are so very lucky to have Chris on our side.

    But come on guys… billboards nationwide! A thousand pictures painting just one word – YES!

  27. Grouse Beater says:

    Great to see you back from your break, Chris!

    Kezia and Fraser are a match made in heaven. I presume the SNP politicians are rowing across the Channel to meet our European friends! We need a bigger boat.

    Your weekend reading:

    That bloody Union again: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-diq
    That bloody ‘Trainspotting’ again: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-d9k

  28. Famous15 says:

    Since it is the weekend after a week of political absurdity I thought a little competition wuld lighten the at osphere.

    We all heard the ” lentil munching,sandal wearing watermelons” being directed at the Greens by the Tories so howsabout how they should be described?

    “Prosecco slurping,sash wearing,eel grassers”

    “Full English gobbling,frog hating,Scotbutts” etc etc

  29. CameronB Brodie says:

    Unfortunately for humanity, reason is prone to the corrosive effects of greed and ignorance. It must be pretty apparent to reasonable Scots, that ideological BritNats lack vision, to say the least. How much are these anti-intellectual Yoon fuds costing the public purse?

    “Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is ajar” ? Jim Butcher

    Reason, Ideology, and Politics
    http://press.princeton.edu/titles/4284.html

  30. mike cassidy says:

    And there was me thinking it was Silly and Charybdis!

  31. Brian Powell says:

    Grouse Beater

    Interesting articles. Seems hard to get through to many that if Scots have no self-respect then others will have no respect for them, which is what we see.

    The ’14 Lords and 45 members of the Commons’ creating a perpetual imbalance is particularly telling, showing it was never about bettering the lot of the population but the lot of those privileged individuals.

    What I struggle with is the political population of Scotland that boasted for so long about ‘there being only one Tory in Scotland’, keep buying the agenda laid out in the news they get. News they know comes from Tory commentators, Tory newspapers and journalists.

    All those trade union meetings in the industrial heartlands, all those decades of sending Labour MPs to Westminster, completely wasted. then seeing Scottish Labour politicians and commentators screaming with glee when the GERS figure come out, a Tory construct, in a country Labour ran for so long.

  32. Nana says:

    Great cartoon Chris.

    Kez and Murdo a couple of blowhards with nothing of any value to say. Hissing and screeching in parliament, what a horror show. I wonder if they realise just how ridiculous they sound.

  33. IheartScotland says:

    Great nose for politics and a ‘wee bit handy at drawin’ n’nat’ Thanks Chris 🙂

  34. Undeadshaun says:

    Obama Pentagon official says anti-Trump military coup now possible.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/feb/2/rosa-brooks-obama-pentagon-official-says-anti-trum/

  35. Joemcg says:

    That racist bloke on the train is definitely the stereotypical no voting green hating Tory scumbag. He’s probably their hero.

  36. galamcennalath says:

    CameronB Brodie says:

    ideological BritNats lack vision

    Indeed. I find it quite hard to get inside their heads. I can’t really fathom their motivation.

    Often the jibe is made that they are driven by the temptation of the trough. Or even rising to that meal ticket for life which is the House of Lords, although in truth, very few make that.

    Many ordinary folks voted NO to stick the with Union because they felt their jobs, status, savings, relied on it. That’s not ideological, though. These people will hopefully conclude that Indy offers greater security and switch.

    No, the ideological London-rule-regardless BritNat is a bit of a mystery! Explanations I been given face to face amount to little more than nostalgia, perhaps a sense of belonging to something, and a great deal of unfounded mythology about the ‘greatness’.

    It really isn’t a surprise people with that mindset don’t have the vision to realise we can have something much better.

  37. Ken500 says:

    Revelations about the Beckhams. ‘charity’ work for knighthood. Taxes evaded. More ‘knighthood’ for revenues, sychophantic, revelations. The Involvement of the Tory Royals. Political, civic Interference when they are supposed to be impartial. Not interfere in political, civic matters or facilitated influence.

    The Queensferry Bridge is brilliant. Can’t wait till it opens. Same with the AWPR. The Borders railway. Benefiting the economy. After decades of neglect. Fifty years of Labour/Unionist decline.

    The Unionist/Green and no Party. Colluding and wasting £Billions of taxpayers money on grotesque monstosity carbuncles. Increasing traffic chaos. Wasting public money on ‘white elephant’ projects of no local value. Not funding essential services. I.e. Social care, proper total abstinence ‘one chance’ drink/drug rehabilitation, provision for homelessness, education, potholes etc. Neglecting the statutory duty. Against the majority wishes and the public interest.

    2 x May 2017.

  38. Alastair says:

    Nice one Chris. Rock and Trolls.

    Since the English estblishment seem to have used the English Courts to eliminated my Scotland to a regional devolved area am I now a Scotlitesman living in Scotliteland.
    I want my Scotland back.

  39. Ken500 says:

    The racist. McKinnons – the Law firm? Negative publicity. 90%? crooked legal eagles. It’s a wonder they aren’t put in jail. Legal impunity. Some of them unlawful solicitors become politicians above the Law.

  40. Robert Peffers says:

    jimnarlene says: 4 February, 2017 at 7:15 am:

    “Wind and pish.
    Which one’s wind, and which one’s pish”

    There was a local saying in the Fife Village of Kelty on that subject,jimnarlene.

    “fu o wind an pish, like the barber’s cat”

    I wonder which of the two is, “The Barber’s Cat”, in the Chris Cartoon?

  41. Gary45% says:

    Another cracker Chris.
    Its not wind, its the “Queens fart”

  42. carjamtic says:

    Welcome back slumdog 😉

    As the bridge building,brothers rowed away,from the remote island coast,they left behind the thong wearing walruses,to their devouring of all the local crustations,the hermit crabs,the slippery eels and left them to continue with their noisy,head-banging.

    Maybe one day,the walruses mused,that,they might become famous,say as the Edinburgh Zoo Panda’s,they dreamt of the good old days,when they were Lying….. (in the Arms of Mary/Sailing) still cursing that brilliant new SNP Baad,Bridge over Troubled Waters and still roaring their displeasure about Scotland’s Independence,their own personal misfortunes and their own freezing cold futures,a lifetime of baltic,freezing cold,quivering and Love on the Rocks.

    #IAmAWalrusSplash

  43. Ken500 says:

    Rothermere the tax evading Non Dom Press owner. Supports Remain but facilitares the dunce Darce’s lying campaign to leave. To increase the tax evaded activities which will result in revenues being lost. Dacre loses Rothermere £Millions.

    Brexit resulting in £Billions of loses to the UK economy. Brexit will not cut migration in Europe. This is caused by UK/US illegal wars. Costing £Trns. .

  44. Chris F says:

    Breeks @9.30 a.m.

    Amen to all of that.

  45. Dr Jim says:

    Trouble with Kezia is she really believes the crap that comes out of her mouth and that’s awful and sad all at the same time
    This lassie should never ever have tried to become a politician, she’s the wrong person in the wrong job
    Maybe something in social care or midwifery, and I’m not even trying to be sarcastic

    Murdo Fraser however is just a bad politician who doesn’t believe in anything he says as long as he thinks he can win and of course his most important task which is No Surrender
    and guard old Scotchlands walls

    This morning I listened to Severin Carroll and Iain Martin throw themselves into battle like Monty Python missing limbs knights in defense of the Brexiteers once again informing us how the financial power of London will prevail over the failing EU and Theresa May will be Queen of the world and how David Camerons “offer” of the EU in out referendum was as a revelation from God, but Nicola Sturgeons “threat” of a referendum will be doomed to miserable failure because the EU will likely fail before even Brexit hour is upon us

    They then licked each other and it was over, and blew a kiss to Gordon Brewer over their shoulder as they skipped from the studio arm in arm towards the rabbit hole where Ken Clark was holding the door open for them

  46. Grouse Beater says:

    Brian Powell: “Interesting articles. Seems hard to get through to many that if Scots have no self-respect then others will have no respect for them, which is what we see.

    Alas, true, so very true. What surprises is the vehemence some Scots employ to reject self-governance. The fear and anger behind the dismissal is palpable.

  47. CameronB Brodie says:

    This is what sprang to mind first of, I just couldn’t think of the title. Mind now, I telt you I was a weirdo. 🙂

    Nature, Neoliberalism and Sustainable Development: Between Charybdis & Scylla?
    https://la.utexas.edu/users/hcleaver/port.html

    galamcennalath
    There’s hundreds of man-hours of social investigation required to get to the bottom of that one. Re. the ordinary No voter. If given the chance, I’m pretty sure they will reason things out as to what is in their best interest. 😉

  48. Croompenstein says:

    Nailed it again Chris I notice they don’t require a mast to be tied to to make their way past the siren song, as it is the shittest siren song in the history of siren song.. 🙂

  49. alexicon says:

    Someone’s back from their holidays on good form.
    Stu can get his Saturdays afternoons back in the pub now 😉

    Remember the faux outrage from the labour branch in Scotland about a Chinese company wanting to invest?

    http://archive.is/rhFpr

  50. Joemcg says:

    The best thing about this Beckham scandal is the lovebombing tactic will never work again. If it did ever with our more gullible voters.

  51. galamcennalath says:

    Dr Jim says:

    the financial power of London will prevail over the failing EU …. the EU will likely fail before even Brexit hour is upon us

    In their dreams.

    I’ve never been particularly pro EU. On balance, given what it has brought in terms of product standards and individual rights, it’s better to be in than out. An iScotland would benefit more than a Scotland-part-of-UK ever did.

    However ….. right now with impending Brexit, by almost any measure the EU looks better to me than ultra right xenophobic isolationist UK. Now that we are probably going to have to choose, Brussels looks a much better bet than London.

    That presents Yoons with a much bigger problem than it does to pro Indy folks!

  52. dakk says:

    Nice one Chris.

    With Derek and Patrick’s expressions they might also be saying

    ‘I smell shite’.

    Some putrid raw sewage seems to have washed ashore!

  53. Proud Cybernat says:

    “A ship called D-I-G-N-I-T-Y.”

    Excellent, Chris!

  54. velofello says:

    I hate to rain on your parade of witty comments about Murdo Fraser, but my reading of his behaviour is that he now regards his role at the Scottish parliament as a bit of a laugh. Politically neither he nor his party are going to progress in Scotland, and Murdo, unlike Wee Ruthy has no prospects down South,so Murdo has moved into a relaxed, take the salary, mindset. yes, +£60K money, for old rope.

    Murdo is not alone in the Tory MSP ranks.They have a part-time football referee MSP, a part-time Uni lecturer MSP, and as witnessed at FM Question Time, loads of Torynoddies, on cue,in unison, nodding their heads as Murdo orates his witty sayings.

    The D’Hondt voting system does not serve us well.

  55. liz says:

    Welcome back Chris.

    Can’t wait to see the back of these lightweights.

  56. starlaw says:

    velofello .. 11-20 RE the D’Hondt voting system

    when the tail can wag the dog .. its time for a change of voting system

  57. CameronB Brodie says:

    “Re. the ordinary No voter. If given the chance, I’m pretty sure they will reason things out as to what is in their best interest.”

    Of course, it is to be hoped that Scots will try to think of the future and remember that we are all interconnected through the environment. Also, that human rights and environmental quality depend on one another. As such, a Brexit future characterised by HMG’s ad-hock approach to human rights, really is the stuff of Orwellian nightmares.

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  58. ronnie anderson says:

    Great to have you back Chris am thinking of ah song tae go wie your toon.

    Stranded by the Right & Left, might be ah hit lol.

    Ok ok i’ll be affline fur ah while noo, hiv ah good day Wingers.

  59. Marcia says:

    The Tories are really upset with the Greens that they have cut the imports of lettuces and other salads for awhile.

  60. Dan Huil says:

    Botch on the rocks? Make mine a double.

    Good to have Chris back.

  61. Bob MACK says:

    The” clashing rocks” from Jason and the Argonauts. They crush you if you sail between them. Better to steer a wider course unless you have a Poseidon to hold them back. Mind you we do have a Sturgeon!!

  62. JLT says:

    In a totally different context, I actually see Theresa May in the boat with Kezia being America, and Murdo being the EU.

    Circling round and round, trying to work out which direction she should take. Aye …Global Britain in action.

    Also read this article in the Guardian this morning. If the Germans and the French were considered to be the soft elements towards Britain come the negotiations, then I do believe Theresa’s foolish antics with Trump and Erdogan have not only damaged the UK’s position prior to the ‘divorce proceedings’, but Hollande’s dismissal of May about being a ‘bridge’ between the EU and USA and Markel’s cancellation of a meeting between May and herself speaks volumes.

    Seems that if we thought Theresa had dug quite a hole last week after simpering and fawning over Trump, then the ramifications are still being felt this week. Pre-negotiating with 2 states that threaten the EU in their own way has not been lost on the EU bureaucrats and leaders. If she’s lost the French and the Germans prior to negotiations …then ouch! Hard Brexit is definitely coming Westminster’s way!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/feb/03/eu-leaders-trump-may-attempt-act-bridge-malta-summit

  63. Lochside says:

    Totally agree Vellofellow…Murdo’s latest performance accompanied by the finger wagging tosser behind him and Ruth Harrison’s impersonation of a commuter on a train playing ‘candy crush’ reinforced how the Unionist imposters in our parliament are a cynical bunch of time serving parasites.

    Talking of trains…something that has bothered me for a long time is the saturation propaganda provided daily at our train stations of the arse-wipe rag the ‘Metro’. A Dail Hate offshoot full of anti-Scottish and anti-Snp crap. I suppose there must be some deal with Scot Rail/Abellio to allow its free distribution despite its obvious intention of dumbing down the Scottish public.

    So how’s this for an idea?…why don’t we organise a crowd fund via the REV to fund on a given day, free copies of the ‘NATIONAL’ to the hundred of thousands of commuters in Scotland. It could be a specially compiled edition cross referenced by the REV’s WBB updated plus all the relevant stuff about Scotland’s resources and potential, as well as the theft via the Barnett, Exports, historical lies, W/M corruption etc. etc. written in an informative but clear manner.

    I and others have lamented for a long long time the lack of a combatitive narrative against Unionist lies from the SNP. Lately, Derek Mackay and Ivan McKee have shown the type of counter argument long overdue. But the vast majority of our people are not aware of Murdo Fraudster and Dippity Dug. Stickers and advertising trailers (what’s happening with it now?) atre well and good, but a hand out paper will literally get into the hands of thousand to read and ruminate on.

    Some will scoff at this idea. Dear old Rock..who some believe to be a troll…I don’t… I think he’s just a disallusioned idealist..doesn’t trust the ‘NATIONAL’…and I still reserve judgement, but it’s the only national newspaper that we have that supports, on the face of it, our Independence. It’s the only way that we can physically ensure people can read the truth. Like the Liverpool people did over Hillsborough, we demand Truth and Justice. If we can’t get people to boycott the Unionist press lets negate it with a blitz of the real facts. £7 will pay fot 10 x copies. A hundred thousand copies would cost £70,000, without any discounting. Thoughts anyone?

  64. Valerie says:

    @JLT
    Completely agree. Each day brings more horror from Trump, and I keep thinking, anyone who matters in Europe, watch and think, that’s the UK special relationship, and specifically linked to May forever now.

    Has there ever been a bigger faux pas, apart from the Brexit fiasco, than May breaking her neck to cosy up to this orange madman?

    Now Trump has lifted a lot of important regs from Wall Street, will May bring forward the promised tax haven too?

    Read Mike Daillys piece on moving to Yes. The usual bile filled reaction from zoomers, and previously Neil Findlay will just confirm to him he has made a good decision.

  65. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Rank hypocrisy @ alexicon says at 10:56 am

    “Remember the faux outrage from the labour branch in Scotland about a Chinese company wanting to invest?”

    http://archive.is/rhFpr

    Same as it ever was for the Tories (Blue, Red or Yellow)

    Foreign investment in Scotland = Bad

    Foreign investment in England = Good

    Unsubstantiated claims against SNP MPs = SNPBAAAAAAAAAAAD

    Factual claims about Tory (Blue, Red or Yellow) MPs not so much

    And Mad Murdo, Ruth ‘Indy’Harrison, Kez and Wee Wullie think making folk like him pay more income tax for the benefit of society is a bad thing?

    Another example if one were needed of the absolute arrogance of these alleged representatives of the people.

    Never forget that for the Tories (Blue, Red or Yellow) priorities will always be:

    Person, Union, Party, the electorate (England), the electorate (Scotland)in that order.

  66. Gfaetheblock says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    4 February, 2017 at 9:26 am

    “The Sirens were meant to be dangerous and women. Murdo fails miserably on both counts.”

    And there are doubts about the other Siren on both counts too.

    Do you have issues with gay people? Can’t understand this comment unless it is a homophobic slur. Lovely stuff.

  67. CameronB Brodie says:

    Lochside
    I’d chuck £20 in, even if only to get Scot Rail/Abellio to address the fact that they are being used as a vehicle for political spin (no pun intended). If they won’t take the National then they should also refuse the Metro, IMHO.

  68. Croompenstein says:

    I could say they are like the baboons on the Rock of Gibraltar but then that would be insulting the baboons.. Mind you the baboons would probably have come up with a better white paper for Brexit than the imperialists..

  69. velofello says:

    ” …the ordinary NO voter, if given the chance…will reason things out.

    Well here is a starter for them;- The UK government, with an unwritten constitution, set up a Supreme Court that, it seems holds sway over Scots law. The UK government then wrote out a Sewel “convention” to bring Comfort and Joy to we Scots, a convention that this Supreme Court has now decreed has no basis in law.

    If No voters hold sway and Scotland leaves the EU with the UK on a hard Brexit, then human rights, employment law, EU component integrity standards etc. etc. will all be lost, to be replaced by a Tory UK government – without a written constitution, free to pass into law whatever meets their philosophies.These are/should be the domestic concerns of voters.

    Following a hard Brexit foreign policy and defence strategy is likely to align with the USA. So more war adventures, and a wayward Trident missile system – located in Scotland.

    Nothing to worry about? I despair.

  70. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    It’s a good idea regarding The Metro @ Lochside says at 12:03 pm

    The drip, drip effect of “Scotland’s sh*te ‘cos of SNPBaaad” really is the largest obstacle to a lot of NOs coming over to YES.

    A one off drop of The National might bring a few over so worth a shot.

    What about a YES version about the size of The Metro weekly?

    It could be ‘Fact Filled (think WBB style stuff, McCrone Report, what the EU really are saying WGD Spanish stuff etc.), fake news headline article busting article (think the usual WoS stuff the Rev does) filled pamphlet’ given out free every Friday that some may take home for a read over the weekend.

    Social Media, internet blogs etc. are great but those who don’t read them and get their news and facts from MSM Dead Tree Scrolls or BBC could be engaged by something like this.

    I’m thinking of information dissemination along the lines of Johann Gutenberg’s movable type printing technology in the Reformation.

    Maybe the dudes at iScot or similar could run it as a sideline or provide technical assistance/advice??

  71. Robert Peffers says:

    @
    Gfaetheblock says: 4 February, 2017 at 12:12 pm:

    “Do you have issues with gay people? Can’t understand this comment unless it is a homophobic slur. Lovely stuff.”

    NO! but I’ve been expecting that accusation to arrive – and here it is – right on que.

    Why ask me if I have, “issues”, in the first place?

    Have you issues with the English language? Why not ask if I have issues with homosexuality?

    Now consider the post I replied to.

    It cast doubts upon the sexuality of Murdo but you seem not to have, “Issues”, with that, I wonder why that is?

    Now I hope you get the point of all this. Like the vast majority of the people of Scotland I don’t give a damn what sexual orientation anyone is – unless of course they are making any advances to me or me to them.

    The reason being that everyone’s sexual orientation is their own business and of no concerns to others excepting anyone engaging in personal matters between the two involved.

    Thing is you do not get, (for lack of a more appropriate term), straight people holding pride marches or objecting to any reference to their sexuality. Nor do they accuse others of having, “Issues”, with their straightness.

    Are you getting the point now?

    It is now long past time in Scotland for everyone to accept that sexuality is a private matter and of no concern of others. The law now exists to punish any perceived bias against anyone for almost anything.
    Including race, colour, creed, sexual orientation and disability.

  72. Valerie says:

    I’m sure everyone has at least got a sense of the White Paper on Brexit has been receiving? It’s pretty much ridicule.

    Here is an economist from JP Morgan

    “Barr says in a note sent to clients on Thursday: “As a distillation of the state of knowledge within the UK government six months after the vote, and with the beginnings of a time-compressed negotiation just weeks away, the shallowness of the analysis and absence of detail are matters of great concern, in our view.”

    I keep saying I’m astounded at the lack of professionalism and intelligence coming from the government. I say that as ex Local Authority. The elected personnel may be idiots, or not on top of the subject, but generally the paid professionals supporting them manage to make a reasonable fist of these papers.

    It’s really worrying.

  73. Brian Powell says:

    Valarie

    And this is the Government that Slab politicians are working to keep us tied to, presumably that sometime in the future their gov will have an opportunity to mess things up.

  74. CameronB Brodie says:

    OK, I’ll try not to get too geeky. Public space is where we come together to experience a shared reality. This experience can itself be shaped by the nature of the environment and the ideology it contains*.

    Should a quasi-public Scottish body not protect the public from what is clearly partisan opinion carried in the Metro? How are folk supposed to make rational decisions about their future, when there is such an imbalance in semiotic power in their daily lives?

    * This is not a crank opinion.

    https://www.jrf.org.uk/sites/default/files/jrf/migrated/files/2050-public-space-community.pdf

    http://semioticon.com/semiotix/2013/05/the-sociolinguistics-of-space-and-semiotic-landscapes-an-introduction/

  75. Gfaetheblock says:

    Peffers, I am a big fan of the English language, so much so that I know the difference between cue and queue, although I think que is the Spanish for what?

    I really don’t understand the point you are making in your posts, but you come across as an angry bigot.

  76. Tam Jardine says:

    Guid to see Patrick on board. There is a guy who understands how these budgets work. He didn’t get what he wanted but he influenced the outcome, and in a good way in my opinion.

    As long as there is a separate Scottish Greens of course there will be policy differences but he is able to put that aside and compromise. Compromise is how the Scottish Parliament is designed to work. Many here are distrustful and some downright hostile after the last election but I appreciate their commitment to independence and am behind many of their policies.

    I also thought Nicola Sturgeon’s rebuke of Kezia as irrelevant was timely: they got nothing from the budget because they refuse to accept how Holyrood works.

    Someone made a very pertinent point about the tories last night- by refusing to work with the SNP the tories ended up with a worse result for the high earners they purport to represent. How’s that for neglecting your duties as MSPs! If the tories had participated the higher rate would not have been frozen but would have only increased in line with inflation as originally planned.

    The tories have cost their voters more tax!

  77. Robert Peffers says:

    @Brian Powell says: 4 February, 2017 at 12:54 pm:

    “And this is the Government that Slab politicians are working to keep us tied to, presumably that sometime in the future their gov will have an opportunity to mess things up.”

    I fair point, Brian. It may be that I’m becoming more cynical in my older age but I had a gentle chuckle at a BBC news headline I read on-line today :-

    “Russian Hacks,’Aim to destabilise West’ – ”

    The thought that immediately popped into my head was, “I wonder why the Russians would bother? On recent evidence, and current events, it seems The West are doing a far, far better job of destabilising the West than the Russians ever could.”

  78. geeo says:

    Sorry about direct link, don’t know how too archive stuff, or even if i can on my phone (?)..

    Seems that we CAN convert anyone..?

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/15070362.Ex_Labour_and_Better_Together_campaigner_opens_up_on_joining_SNP/?ref=twtrec

  79. geeo says:

    Sorry about that mess above….

    Also sorry if this attempt at archiving the above didn’t work…if it does, please ignore the above direct link.

    http://archive.is/f7uDQ

  80. Robert Kerr says:

    @Gfaetheblock

    Sir you are out of order. Mr Peffers has been a meaningful and helpful poster here for a long time.

    You are not the first to attempt to belittle him. The trolls and their masters perceive him to be a serious threat.

    Lets leave it at that.

  81. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Excellent Chris.

    As Derek Mackay’s fellow “Paisley Buddie” Gerry Raffery would have sang,

    “Clowns to the left of me Jokers to right…”

  82. CameronB Brodie says:

    Link for geeo.

    http://archive.is/f7uDQ

  83. geeo says:

    Thanks Cameron, i got it now though. I followed the guide someone put up on the last topic.

  84. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Ruthie and her band of Scottish Tories got a wee “Brexit Bounce” last year,

    That bounce is well and truly OVER.

    Normal service has resumed.

  85. Muscleguyq says:

    @Stoker

    Good point. We are in addition to being a monarchy a theocracy with the Lords Spiritual in the upper house at Westminster.

    We share with Iran being the only two countries in the world where senior clerics sit as of right in parliament. If Iran is called a theocracy and it is then so is the UK.

    Just another in the increasingly long list of reasons to vote Yes. They are many and varied. Any non Episcopalians should also be fairly appalled that their high heid yins are not also in that position. Where would it end? The Jedis would insist on finding a grand master to occupy a sinecure there.

  86. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    BBC Scotland hunt down and slaughter ANY SNP MP who they consider fair game.

    I look forward to BBC Scotland going after Labour MP Barry Gardiner and his dodgy links to China.

    And what does Kezia think of one of her “Labour Family” member’s close links to the Chinese and all that money that was dropped into his bank account???

  87. Robert Louis says:

    O/T

    Robert Peffers at 1244pm,

    I have long admired your postings on here, however, your comments regarding homosexuality are somewhat odd. I kind of understand what you ‘might’ be saying, but sadly, I do not think you are making your point clearly. The result of your lack of clarity and some of your other assertions about ”straight’ people not holding pride marches’, do make you sound a touch biggotted.

    Pride marches are a means of showing solidarity not just with other gay people within, say, Scotland, but globally, where, in some instances people are still in 2017, imprisoned, hung, beheaded, stoned to death or thrown off buildings (yes, really) simply for being gay.

    In addition, can I just point out, that things for gay people in Scotland are still not as rosy as you suggest. We still have gay bashings occur from time to time – people discriminated against, beaten up – or worse- up for no other reason than their sexuality.

    Things have gotten much better than the dark days when being homosexual in Scotland was still illegal which I still remember (homosexuality was still illegal in Scotland up to 1980, unlike England and Wales where homosexuality was decriminalised in 1967). But they are by no means perfect.

    For now, I’m holding to the belief that my concerns regarding your comments are unfounded, but if not, I must say, I’d be terribly disappointed – and I say that as a fan of all your previous posts.

    Oh, and as I’m sure you know, I’m not a unionist troll (before anybody jumps in with that).

  88. Socrates MacSporran says:

    OFF-TOPIC and ABOUT SPORT

    As I start this, we are 20 minutes into the 45-minute lead-into the BBC’s transmission of the opening game in the 2017 RBS Six Nations tournament.

    This match is Scotland v Ireland, at Murrayfield. So far, the 20-minutes has consisted of five minutes of general chat, and a 15-minute commercial for England winning the whole thing.

    When will the BBC ever learn – BRITAIN is NOT another word for England? It is not all about the Common Enemy.

  89. Hamish100 says:

    The Scottish Enlightenment –

    Labour branch office could have worked with the SNP to deliver a budget . But as in the brexit vote at Westminster they prefer to walk hand in hand with the neo con Tories.

    Wee Wullie Rennie – libs do deals with the Tories and labour depending on the parliament. I note he s missing in the cartoon. Has he submerged already looking for nuke subs?

    Their influence is zero as they are blinded by hatred of the snp and greens.

    They should return their wages to parliament and go home and brood. They have offered nothing positive to Scoland for the past decade or so and for the future.

    Enlightenment escapes them.

  90. Al Dossary says:

    Interesting conversation with a Frenchman last night at my friends birthday party. His son works in London with one of the major banks.

    According to him they have already closed the trading floor and taken the business to Frankfurt and Madrid. The staff are already in the process of being transferred out of London.

    Interesting night, with an eclectic mix of nationalities – including Dutch, Italian, French, German, Philipino, Korean, American, Scottish and English.

    There was a genuine feeling of disbelief amongst the Europeans there that the English public could be so stupid as to vote to leave the EU.

  91. Proud Cybernat says:

    The Brexit Bounce…

    http://imgur.com/a/X7vxq

  92. crazycat says:

    @ CameronB Brodie

    The Herald’s attempt to stop people reading more than a paragraph of an article without subscribing means that your archived link is mostly Latin space-filling. (Going to their site directly has the same result, of course).

    Is there any way someone could archive the whole article, or have they genuinely made that impossible?

  93. mike d says:

    O/t just showed my wife and english in-laws photos of the new bridge,they couldn’t believe it,awesome was a word used. Not a peep down here about it on the media in the deep south. Wonder what sort of pish would have been spouted had liebor been the government in holyrood?.then again they wouldn’t have built it.

  94. mr thms says:

    Some interesting links to ponder..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9qkD6a2TOc

    “Guy Verhofstadt: Europe’s Last Chance: Why the European States Must Form a More Perfect Union

    Europe is caught in its greatest crisis since the Second World War. The catalogue of ills seems endless: an economic crisis through most of Europe’s Mediterranean tier; terrorist attacks in Paris, Cologne, Brussels, and Nice; growing aggression from Russia in Ukraine and the Baltic states; and refugees escaping war-torn neighbors. Brexit is now a reality and others may follow.

    How can Europe survive? What are the consequences of a divided Europe, on both sides of Atlantic? Could a United States of Europe, patterned after the American federal system, be a realistic solution?

    Guy Verhofstadt was prime minister of Belgium from 1999 to 2008. He is the author of Europe’s Last Chance and president of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe in the European Parliament.

    (26th January 2017 – 01:01:42)

    So Guy Verhofstadt thinks federalism is the way forward..

    Who else?

    http://www.john-mcdonnell.net/john_mcdonnell_calls_for_radical_federal_uk_as_labour_shifts_ground_on_union

    “Dugdale said the UK should be transformed into a federal state with Scotland taking control over fisheries, farming and social rights now covered by EU laws. Former Labour Prime Minister Gordon Brown backed a similar package.”

    So Labour thinks federalism is the way forward..

    Who else?

    This article was written the day after the Scottish referendum..

    http://pgitl.com/scotland-federal-europe/

    “After Scotland…Federal Europe?”

    It has two maps showing..

    “…two possible futures for Europe. One where increasing devolution favours smaller regional communities and one in which a post-industrial Europe echoes its pre-industrial, medieval past with powerful city states playing the dominant role. Or maybe it might be both. Either way the outlook for the traditional nation state does not look too rosy.”

    What does everyone else think?

  95. Conan the Librarian says:

    Shouldn’t have been surprised my original comment has sparked off this wee stushie; we are Wingers after all 🙂

    It was about “being dangerous”, with the gender of one person and not the sexual affiliation of either, being a minor point.

  96. CameronB Brodie says:

    geeo
    Only too happy now I know archive.is has nothing to do with Israel (long story). 😉

    Re. Mr.Mike Dailly. Of course, he’s welcome on board the freedom train and I look forward to him putting his legal training behind Scots advancing towards accessing our inalienable “Right to Development”.

    I didn’t read the article but I think Scotland’s constitutional circumstances have ramifications of such profound social significance, that more noise needs to be made about the UK ‘Supreme Court’ being ‘out-of-step’ with human rights provisions, as specified by the United Nations.

    British tradition before reason, that’s UKOK that is. Britain is, of course, England and England is Britain. Just ask the UK Supreme Court.

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  97. CameronB Brodie says:

    crazycat
    I just noticed that myself, I was trying to get in before the finger pointing. Oops, did I say that out loud? Stirring, me? 🙂

  98. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gfaetheblock says: 4 February, 2017 at 1:05 pm:

    “Peffers, I am a big fan of the English language, so much so that I know the difference between cue and queue, although I think que is the Spanish for what?”

    Matter of strict fact, Gfaetheblock, so do I know the difference between, “cue”, and, “queue”, However I also know the difference between both and, “que”. As cue was the word I intended to type. Indeed the context of what I typed should have made that quite clear.

    I do apologise for my error, actually more typo than a spelling or grammatical error. Mainly due to a bandaged, badly lacerated, middle finger. Better now as, “Micropore”, tape is far less cumbersome than bandage.

    “I really don’t understand the point you are making in your posts, but you come across as an angry bigot.”

    Allow me to correct that for you. You state, “I really don’t understand the point you are making in your posts, but you come across as an angry bigot.”

    Perhaps you meant, ““I really don’t understand the point you are making in your posts, but in my humble opinion, you come across as an angry bigot.”

    Allow me to further explain, as I already have in another comment, I am neither angry nor am I a bigot.

    I was making the valid point that no one had made accusations about Murdo’s sexuality being questioned, but someone would be along in a minute, to question that of Kezia being just mentioned, and here you were doing just that.

    I find it strange there are double standards in regard to anyone’s sexual orientation. Those most likely to hold such double standards are usually always in support of those who are categorised to be members of that, catch all definition, “LGBTQ+”.

    Now just how do you imagine I knew my reply to a comment made that cast doubts upon Murdro’s sexual orientation would be ignored and followed almost immediately by someone complaining that a similar comment about Kezia’s sexual orientation was a bigoted comment?

  99. bugsbunny says:

    Shouldn’t there be a gloved white hand disappearing up Murdo’s backside controlling his every move? And surely Murdo’s face should be bright orange? Not just in honour of the new President, but in honour of a certain chap he admires who died of Pneumonia one late winters Day in 1702 after breaking his collar bone when his horse tripped over a mole hill, or who the Jacobite’s later called, “The Little Gentleman in the Velvet Coat”.

    Oh and shouldn’t he have blood soaked trousers, up to his knees at least? Despicable Scumbag.

  100. Artyhetty says:

    Great image. I especially like the green boat! Kez looks a bit crazed, somewhat desperate.

    CameronB Brodie@1.03

    Yep that rag, the metro, freely circulated on our buses as well. It is however quite often to be found on the floor, and I took a few the other day for cat litter. 🙂 Thing is if you hand out free rags, even pro indy, people will stash or trash them. Better to put information through letter boxes imo.

  101. Gary45% says:

    Mr Peffers sir,
    Just you keep doing what you do, you are one of the legends on this site.

  102. Gfaetheblock says:

    But Conan’s comment was funny, and joke was based on compentence/danger and gender.

  103. Clydebuilt says:

    Thought Sirens are supposed to be a temptation………. Murdo and Kezia………Nae Thanks……..

  104. heedtracker says:

    Tragicomic, except for the fact that both their parties do still reign over us, no matter how hard we don’t vote for them.

    When will this farce end, Scotland region of greater England?

  105. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert Louis says: 4 February, 2017 at 1:39 pm:

    “I have long admired your postings on here, however, your comments regarding homosexuality are somewhat odd. I kind of understand what you ‘might’ be saying, but sadly, I do not think you are making your point clearly. The result of your lack of clarity and some of your other assertions about ”straight’ people not holding pride marches’, do make you sound a touch biggotted.

    Oh! Robert Louis, I’m so disappointed. My comments are as clear as crystal and my comments on, “Straight”, (note the quote marks). Are exactly the opposite to what you claim.

    I’ll even clarify it further for you. The whole sexual orientation pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction. Now the people being ignored when being biased against are the, “Straight”, ones.

    No one jumped on the comment that Murdo’s sexuality was in doubt but there was immediate complaint about a similar comment about Kezia’s sexuality.

    Even yet no one else has commented that the original comment on Murdo’s sexual orientation is bigoted. Why?

    “Pride marches are a means of showing solidarity not just with other gay people within, say, Scotland,”

    I know what they are, Robert Louis. However, that does not make them right. May I also point out that there are usually many attending such marches who are heterosexual in orientation marching in support.

    … can I just point out, that things for gay people in Scotland are still not as rosy as you suggest.”

    I suggested no such thing, Robert Louis.

    ” … We still have gay bashings occur from time to time – people discriminated against, beaten up – or worse- up for no other reason than their sexuality.”

    May I point out to you that I am now a disable person. Furthermore I have a son with learning difficulties and my late wife was confined to a wheelchair for some years after we suffered a car crash with a drunk driver.

    Furthermore I have spent much of my free time since I was 11 years old doing volunteer work for those less fortunate than I – and I still do yet when I am able. I need no lessons in discrimination from anyone. Oh! BTW: I also have hearing difficulty now.

    ” … Oh, and as I’m sure you know, I’m not a unionist troll (before anybody jumps in with that.

    I never, for a moment thought you were. In fact I think you make the point I’m attempting to make even better than I do. My point is not that discrimination on the grounds of sexual orientation is acceptable but that it is now taking the focus away from others who are equally discriminated against.

    Not so long ago my son was walking down Dunfermline High Street to his flat one evening. Someone stepped out of a shop doorway and punched him in the face.

    Just by chance the next day I called to visit him and I asked if he had informed the police of the assault and he said he had. I asked what they were doing about it and he said, “Nothing, they asked me what they thought they could do”.

    I decided to call at the Police Station to get some answers and was appalled that they said they could do nothing. To cut a long tale short, they though that it was too much bother as it was only a handicapped lad.

    Now, think on this. Dunfermline High Street is covered by CCTV yet they claimed they could do nothing? They had not even bothered to check out the CCTV.

    When my wife was alive I had a person in a supermarket queue push her wheelchair out of the way and walk into the checkout in front of her. Yet not a single member of the public said a word about it.

    Now do you get the point?

    I’m 100% with anyone suffering discrimination and I always have been. No one group should have priority over any other group but that is exactly what is now the case.

    If you are coloured, or other than Christian, or of other than heterosexual orientation, the majority of people will support you. If you are physically disabled, or even mentally ill or handicapped you are often not getting the same levels of support from the public, the police, the courts or the governments.

  106. ScottishPsyche says:

    By the way I am still seeing critical opinions of the SNP in print and hearing critical views on TV and radio. There are even critical views online. I thought all that had been done away with.

    Useless SNP – can’t even be a proper minority party OnePartyState.

  107. heedtracker says:

    Marcia says:
    4 February, 2017 at 11:47 am
    The Tories are really upset with the Greens that they have cut the imports of lettuces and other salads for awhile.

    Best worst gag of 2017 Marcia, so far:D

  108. CameornB Brodie says:

    OT but we’re over 100 comments now and from the Rev.’s twitter. I feel a bit naughty and should probably join twitter myself but I hope you’ll allow me this vicarious pleasure.

    @ Stephen Daisley & his supporters
    Of course, there is the possibility that your opinion re the evils of nationalism, is formed through ignorance not reason. Civic nationalism can be a positive force for social transformation. I don’t see colonial domination from London doing that for Scotland.

    Self determination, national sovereignty and international responsibility

    The concept of self determination, as articulated in the Charter of the United Nations (Art.1, para. 2 and Art. 55), and reiterated in the famous “Declaration on the Granting of Independence to Colonial Countries and Peoples” (1961), was principally developed to accommodate the legitimacy of the struggle of the colonial peoples, and peoples under alien domination, to exercise their right to sovereign statehood. “It was repeatedly stressed that it was necessary to avoid any formulation of the principle which might be interpreted as widening its scope and making it applicable to peoples who already formed part of an independent state, as the concept was meant to serve to unite peoples on a voluntary and democratic basis, not to break up existing national entities” (Vajic, 1991). Consequently, the principle of territorial integrity and respect for existing frontiers (or the preservation of the unitary state) as a major factor of international stability predominated over the right to self determination (where this implied the dismemberment of existing states) and secession.

    However, advances in the field of democracy and fundamental freedoms over the last decades, accompanied by the growing consensus that the use of force is neither desirable nor effective in stifling aspirations for self determination, have led to situations where conflicts between the concept of self determination and the unitary state have become increasingly more difficult to resolve. The experience of the Kurds, the Slovenes, the Croats and the Bosnians has demonstrated that separatist pressures can no longer be regarded as strictly internal affairs, especially since the resistance to their struggle has had the effect of invalidating the fundamental assumption linking territorial inviolability – and, implicitly, the denial of self determination – to international peace and stability. Consequently, the human rights performance of a state, including its treatment of its minorities, is steadily becoming a matter of legitimate international concern. Embodied in this attitude is the developing consensus, strengthened since the Gulf war experience, that state sovereignty can no longer provide governments immunity in cases of violations of human rights, particularly in its repression of its minorities.

    Another related issue is the changed world environment since the end of the cold war in Europe. Whereas before the cause of ethnic minorities was often exploited by the superpowers or their allies as a way of obtaining geopolitical leverage (e.g., US support to the Kurdish rebellion in the 1970s), the removal of the cold war context, together with the growing intensity of independence movements, has generated a serious reconsideration of the legal foundations and ethical implications of a denial of legitimate aspirations for political and territorial autonomy….

    http://www.gmu.edu/programs/icar/ijps/vol2_2/pamir.htm

    Development and Nationalism

    From Encyclopedia of Nationalism, Vol.1. 2001: Academic Press

    GLOSSARY

    civic nationalism A sense of belonging to a common nation, as defined by citizenship in the same national state.

    http://www.mettaspencer.com/?Papers:Academic_papers:Development_and_Nationalism

    Anderson defines the nation as, “an imagined political community – and imagined as both inherently limited and sovereign…It is imagined because the members of even the smallest nation will never know most of their fellow-members, meet them, or even hear of them, yet in the minds of each lives the image of their communion” (Anderson, B., 1983, p.6).

    https://nationalismstudies.wordpress.com/2012/10/24/benedict-anderson/

  109. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Good cartoon.

    A less likely pair of sirens I have never seen. But only because they can merely whine, not sing.

  110. Lochside says:

    Could the ‘legend’ known as the Blessed Robert Peffers please stop clogging up these threads( 10 on this thread and counting) with his couthy kailyard musings and crusty and crabbit swipes at fellow posters who deign to contradict him?. I am no admirer of you Mr Peffers as you know, or your supporters. Your constant broken record flawed ‘historical’ analysis of Scotland’s ‘sovereignty’ ( I notice you’ve dropped your we are still ‘British’ after Indy shite) appeals to the majority of posters, but not me.

    Time and again you arrest interesting analysis by erudite individuals, who increasingly are posting less frequently, with your pompous, pedantic and self regarding pish. You once accused me of being a troll. Well I think you are worse than a troll and are slowly strangling debate on here with your sidetracking of issues. Your latest being a wilful misunderstanding of your obvious homophobia being challenged.

  111. Capella says:

    @ Lochside – there’s no need to be rude. Just scroll past any posts you don’t like. That’s what I do, though I’ve made an exception in this case.

  112. yesindyref2 says:

    Yay! 27-22!

  113. Liz g says:

    Robert Peffers @ 3.17

    Can I try for a wee bit of oil on troubled waters here?

    Your last post struck a chord Robert,my father who was deaf often commented on the fact that people (the public) were often more than willing to help a blind person but reluctant to assist a deaf person.

    Something that most, seemed to be unaware of untill it’s pointed out….Then they notice…That’s why I point it out at every opportunity.
    I do this even though I know that the concept of deserving and undeserving disability being abhorrent has been around for many decades,but sadly it still needs sayin…

    Sooo…. While your position (as I am reading it) that our equality law’s,have been around long enough and are clearly beyond dispute,you will indeed be applying said equality,to your own views and will brook no implication that equality is anything other than normal,no exceptions.

    But it isn’t like that Robert,and for the simple reason that the attude and law’s that facilitate human sexual orientation in all it’s forms,can be and are always in danger of being reversed.
    This is NOT the case for heterosexual people.
    So a bit of vigilance, I think, is justified and I think that’s where the others are speaking from.

    So while you’re views are indeed my views (live and let live) and you speak as you believe, I am afraid that the discourse around this issue will need to have people always willing to say something even if it is just to clarify things, for sometime yet.
    Just like I still have to point out that deaf people are as deserving of assistance as blind people,to people who never even thought that they had been discriminating at all.

    You of all people Robert appreciate the value of repetition,and this issue still needs people who will jump in,but hopefully not for 300 year’s.. LOL

  114. Just watched Scotland v. Ireland. ( Six Natuons) Well done, better team won, unfortunately

  115. frogesque says:

    Well done Scotland! Edge of seat stuff but came good at the end. 27/22, fantastic!

  116. Meindevon says:

    Like it!

    Mind it would have been nice to see them sailing off towards ‘Independence Island’ in the distance. 😉

  117. Flower of Scotland says:

    Lochside 3.54pm.

    Enough!

    I love Robert Peffers’ comments. I have copied lots and have learned a huge amount from him.

  118. frogesque says:

    @Meindevon 4.26

    Baby steps, baby steps!

  119. CameronB Brodie says:

    P.S. @ Stephen Daisley & his supporters
    Re. colonial rule from London. Have recent events re. Scotland’s EU status not give you pause for thought?

    Encyclopedia of Human Geography

    COLONIALISM
    Colonialism, as distinct from imperialism, is generally defined as appropriation, occupation and control of one territory by another. This simple definition, however, masks and longer and more complex genealogy of the term and concept……

    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=5791AwAAQBAJ&pg=PT74&lpg=PT74&ots=dp16j17XOL&focus=viewport&dq=encyclopedia+of+human+geography+%2B+definition+of+colonialism

  120. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers is a WoS star! Everything he posts on WoS is relevant and I personally have used his info to spank wobbly yoon airse on many occasion.

    More power to you Robert.

  121. Dave McDave says:

    Great cartoon as usual Chris! What interesting times we live in! We have fake “Scottish” newspapers trying to sell us fake “news” about Westminster’s fake “democracy” or non-news about fake “celebrities” (famous for fake-all), instead of asking about the fake “raft” of powers promised by their fake “vow”. (Promised the entire raft but only given a Pooh-stick…)
    Once Brexshit really hits the fan, we can look forward to fake Harris Tweed, fake Aberdeen Angus, fake Stornoway black pudding and fake Scotch whisky as all EU brand protection legislation will be gone.

    There is only one REAL way out of this madness, and hopefully more and more people will see it that way, when presented with the real facts.

  122. yesindyref2 says:

    I always feel sorry for the England teams. This is the 6 Nations and even before the kickoff the commentator is saying like “England have set the hurdle high because they know they’ll need extra to face the All Blacks”.

    The All Blacks aren’t in the 6 nations you dickwad, and England know they have a match to play – right now.

    That is one advantage Scotland have had for years, lower expectations, means they can just go out and do their best. As they did today – great game, I’m exhausted.

  123. Croompenstein says:

    Ireland can’t have lost as isn’t there meant to be a Grand Slam showdown between Ireland and England in Dublin on the 18th March?

    I’m sure I heard someone mention it 🙂

  124. Robert Peffers says:

    @Gfaetheblock says: 4 February, 2017 at 2:30 pm:

    But Conan’s comment was funny, and joke was based on compentence/danger and gender.”

    That’ll be once more, “in your humble opinion”,
    Of course.

    Yet you think it a joke that Murdo’s, sexual orientation is in question but no one should dare to question that of Kezia? And you accuse me of being a bigot!

    Methinks you just made my point for me.

  125. Glamaig says:

    The budget thing – this is how politics should work. When I lived in Germany I was struck by how different politics was there. There would be a crisis or impasse for a week or two then the parties would get together and hammer out a compromise, and everybody would move on. Compromise is not something you see much in FPTP Westminster politics.

    So the Greens and the SNP get how PR parliaments work, SLab and the Tories dont, or just refuse to deal with the SNP because they are the SNP. Probably the only principle they have apart from Union good, Scotland bad.

    My MSP told me the Tories at Holyrood dont contribute anything much, they just turn up to collect their salaries. They do like to give the BBC a few soundbites though.

  126. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links for June 2013 now over on O/T.

    (((((SCOTLAND)))))

    Well done the team! Great big smiley grin oan ma puss!

  127. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameornB Brodie says: 4 February, 2017 at 3:21 pm

    “OT but we’re over 100 comments now and from the Rev.’s twitter. I feel a bit naughty and should probably join twitter myself but I hope you’ll allow me this vicarious pleasure.”

    Allow you? I welcome it and say very well done.

    I’d been waiting for something like it to be posted and it wasn’t so I have just spent the best part of three days searching the internet and taking notes and you beat me to it. Great stuff.

  128. Gary45% says:

    O/T
    Although mentioned already regarding the Scottish Wugga teams success today, are they “Proud Scots” or “Scot buts”?
    I used to support the rugby team more than the footy team, but when Hastings and co came out and showed their allegiance to Brenda at Indy 14, I switched off my support for any of them.
    Will they show the same passion against Angerland? I doubt it,
    I hope I’m wrong.

  129. Chick McGregor says:

    Their sexuality is irrelevant and nothing to do with their politics.

    The fact their politics is also irrelevant is just a matter of coincidence.

    There is mixed sexuality among those who favour normal levels of self government for Scotland as well.

  130. Dorothy Devine says:

    Well done the rugby boys! I have to admit I only found the game by accident as I thought England were playing France and Italy were playing Wales – no mention of anyone else in the advert.

  131. Stu Mac says:

    @Grouse Beater
    ==============

    A lot of that can be explained by the fact (shown by research) that when people have a lot of emotional investment in an idea, they reject evidence that could prove them mistaken: indeed when one tries to push them to accept new facts they can become angry and aggressive. See books such as “When Prophecy Fails” (Festinger), “Mistakes Were Made” (Tarvis/Aronson)and other similar books.

  132. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 4 February, 2017 at 3:03 pm:

    “Tragicomic, except for the fact that both their parties do still reign over us, no matter how hard we don’t vote for them.

    When will this farce end, Scotland region of greater England?”

    It is worse than that, Heedtracker, Scotland is the bestest and most devolved region of any country in the whole wide Universe when it suits the Westminster Establishment but it is the most subsidised and scurrilous nation of workshy beggars of English money under the Sun when that suits Westminster.

  133. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Gary45% @ 5.14

    Sorry mate, but, the political opinions of the likes of Gavin Hastings: George Watson’s College, Cambridge University, pus a spell in London, working in the City and playing for London Scottish should not be too surprising. He is “hidden esatblishment”, or, a “Proud Scot But” should have little effect on supporting Scotland.

    Gavin Hastings has no official position within the SRU, he is a private citizen so, not supporting Scotland, because of his opinions doesn’t wash with me.

  134. Meg merrilees says:

    Well done Scotland – Rugby team off to a good start! Brilliant game.

    Proud of the whole team.

    C’mon Jamie Murray tonight! – 6pm Davis Cup.

    I’ll second Capella @ 4.02pm
    This is a website that is predominantly pro-Independence so let’s try and get on until we reach that goal – then we can bash the proverbial out of each other.

  135. mike cassidy says:

    Stu Mac 5.20

    Cognitive Dissonance, I think its called.

    What I experience when people go on about rugby!

  136. CameronB Brodie says:

    Sorry Chic but I think this matters. Their sexuality is* and may have quite a lot to do with their politics, apparently.

    Eros and Economy: Jung, Deleuze, Sexual Difference
    https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1keTDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT208&lpg=PT208&dq=Eros+and+sustainability+sex+and+politics&source=bl&ots=HpB-oPNcPZ&sig=MI39BK92Wsu7D2wbjGIf1v-UU_Y&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidntGW-vbRAhUPOsAKHVbTCO4Q6AEIKTAG

    – Deal with it, it’s theirs not yours.

  137. Gary45% says:

    Cheers Socrates@5.23
    I was genuinely gutted when the grand slam team seemed to stand shoulder to shoulder with the empire at Indy 14.
    I had great respect for them up until then.
    I hope Scotland win the 6 nations this year ( deep down I always do), maybe the constant empire media kicking is wearing me down.

  138. CameronB Brodie says:

    Chick McGregor
    Just to be clear Chick, I’m not suggesting you need to deal with their sexuality being theirs and not yours. And yes, for what it’s worth, I’m a post-structuralist vegetarian. These SNP inspired shortages are really beginning to hurt. 😉

  139. mike cassidy says:

    Here’s a bit of a comment below BBC Scotland’s report on the rugby.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/38848621

    “..A shame that Jimmy Krankie is planning on banning Rugby in her new sporran wielding nation since it’s too English! What a wonderful game! ”

    I have no interest in the sport, but I’m sure I would have noticed if the SNP were going to kick it into touch.

  140. Lenny Hartley says:

    Loch side please stop posting in this site as you are talking pish.

    Robert Peffers, keep them coming.

  141. wull2 says:

    I was always told that most people just read the first 8 or 9 lines of anything, so make your point at the beginning or it might not be read.

  142. carjamtic says:

    Once upon a time in an empire far far away…..

    The year was 1972,the venue Edinburgh Scotland,the Eurovision Song Contest.

    BBC Fat Controller.

    “Can’t have those Nats representing the U.K.”

    But sir the lead singer is Eve Graham and she’s a Fifer,not just a home town favourite,but the whole of Scotland.

    “Change the song,change the singers,make the backing singers sing the song,put the jock on harmonies,nothing more,you understand,we’ll win anyway”

    Come what May and the Vicky.

    Going for Gold

    “Who the fake came up with this poxy idea,all those kin European winners,keep going till we have enough local winners,then scrap it…..coming over here….”

    ……and that was the way it went on,until Brexit.

    ;-/

    #ChillyQuiverings

  143. CameronB Brodie says:

    Robert Peffers
    Your welcome, I just wish it wasn’t necessary. Mind now, I’m re-tracing old paths.

  144. Robert Peffers says:

    Lochside says: 4 February, 2017 at 3:54 pm:

    “Could the ‘legend’ known as the Blessed Robert Peffers please stop clogging up these threads( 10 on this thread and counting) with his couthy kailyard musings and crusty and crabbit swipes at fellow posters who deign to contradict him?.”

    I didn’y know the Rev Stu had delegated the moderation of his blog to Lochside. Anyone know when that happened?

    ” … I am no admirer of you Mr Peffers as you know, or your supporters. Your constant broken record”

    I believe I’m rather relieved to learn that fact Lochside.

    To criticise me is your privilege and your right. As is mine to criticise you and yours. You will note, thought that I do not attempt to stop you posting and accept your right to criticise other posters. Seems you do not have such scruples.

    “… I notice you’ve dropped your we are still ‘British’ after Indy shite) appeals to the majority of posters, but not me.”

    Have I? I had not noticed that – How nice of you to tell me I had. Thing is it just happens to be true, and neither you or I can dispute it, as long as Scotland remains physically attached to the British Isles the people of Scotland will be British.

    It is hardly my fault that you are stupid enough to confuse being British with being part of the United Kingdom. Last time I looked there was a rather significant part of Britain that was not being governed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Don’t blame others for your own stupidity.

    ” … Time and again you arrest interesting analysis by erudite individuals, who increasingly are posting less frequently, with your pompous, pedantic and self regarding pish.”

    So you deduce that it is my fault and in no way might just be YOU they object to. Perhaps even just that you agree with them and disagree with me?

    You will of course be able to back up your claims?

    “You once accused me of being a troll”

    Only once? Now there’s a surprise.

    “Well I think you are worse than a troll and are slowly strangling debate on here with your sidetracking of issues.”

    Or would that not be more correctly stated by you as, “You don’t agree with me and I don’t like it. I only want to hear things I agree with.”

    It is an open forum, you wally, everyone doesn’t have to agree with you – or for that matter anyone else. You do know what is meant by debate, don’t you?

    ” … Your latest being a wilful misunderstanding of your obvious homophobia being challenged.”

    Eh! Don’t you understand English? I was openly accused of being homophobic but I never made any homophobic remarks. How could I when the lady herself had announced her orientation to the press and broadcasters?

    If you can find anywhere I said there was anything wrong or unacceptable in thar then you are not reading what I wrote

    Thing is, Lochside, I’m not homophobic nor am I any other phobic either. You do not seem to realise that by accusing me of being so you are making my exact point for me.

    I posted in reply to someone who had just made a comment, joke or no, casting doubts on Murdo’s sexuality.

    No one objected. I only turned the comment round, and I could not even cast doubt upon the sexual orientation of Ms Dugdale, Now note this well – the lady herself announced her intended marriage to another lady to the World on the public domain?

    Sadly there has apparently been some problem but I would not presume to comment upon that as not only is it none of my business but I find it sad when people’s romances are in trouble.

    So there you go. I criticise you and you resent it and tell me to get off the Rev Stu’s blog. Now have I ever told you not to post anything you like?

    I don’t even tell you to not criticise me – be my guest but do not expect me to not defend myself.

  145. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella says: 4 February, 2017 at 4:02 pm:

    “@ Lochside – there’s no need to be rude. Just scroll past any posts you don’t like. That’s what I do, though I’ve made an exception in this case.”

    You are wasting your time, Capella, Lochside has been told that several times already. Perhaps Lochside just wants to take a swipe at me.

    He is welcome to do so. If we cannot speak our minds and disagree with each other it wouldn’t be an open forum or a debate and no one would learn anything.

  146. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Stu Mac @ 17:20,

    But the key thing is, if plain facts are inadequate, how to effectively penetrate that barrier?

    It must be possible, since we do see people change. Maybe we need to ask ex-BT folk like Mike Dailly what finally made a difference.

    Anyone on here who can speak from experience…?

  147. bjsalba says:

    @Glamaig at 5:10

    You have hit the nail right slap bang on the head. The Westminster (and Washington D.C.) systems are predicated on a FPTP winner takes all, totally crush the losers frame of mind.

    To them the notion of co-operation is totally alien and compromise is a dirty word, whereas in a proportional representation system where coalitions are the norm co-operation and compromise are the basic working method. Most of Europe, and the EU work that way which is why, in the EU, the UK (especially under a Tory Majority Government) is such a total misfit.

    I have never been to Holyrood although I have seen some committees in operation and attended a Commission hearing locally.

    It was clear to me that the description given by your MSP was generous. Participation on the Committee and Commission proceedings by the “opposition” MSPs was geared exclusively to encouraging interviewees to gripe and snipe at the SNP, in the hope that they might come up with a factoid they could craft into a “blow for SNP”. The only people who moved in a constructive direction were the SNP representatives and (in the case of the Commission) the non-politicians.

    I would hope that in an Independent Scotland they would have to change their ways or they will be replaced by other parties who will seek to do better for the electorate.

  148. Capella says:

    @ Robert Peffers – disagreement and debate are fine with me too. But ill-tempered “ad hominem” attacks lower the tone IMO.

    “ad hominem… is a logical fallacy in which an argument is rebutted by attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

    Not top quality discourse!

  149. Lochside says:

    Robert Peffers… I have not been ‘appointed moderator; I am not ‘attempting to stop you posting’ or ‘to get off’ the REV’s blog..just stop posting multiple times; ‘back up my claims’?…no, they are just my observations and judgement that your postings are too frequent and repetitive.

    ‘it is hardly my fault that you are stupid enough to confuse being British with being part of the United Kingdom. Last time I looked there was a rather significant part of Britain that was not being governed by the Parliament of the United Kingdom. Don’t blame others for your own stupidity’….

    .Nice example there of your insulting and typical misinterpretation and extrapolation of what I actually wrote … Plainly, Being ‘British ‘AFTER Indi can only be a geographical description not a national or citizenship designation. I am not confused about the UK and Britain and the British…it’s your bee and your bonnet..I told you before, try telling an Irish citizen from the R.O.I that they are ‘british’. ‘Iberian’ has no real meaning to a Portuguese or Spaniard…neither should being ‘British’ mean anything to a Free Scottish citizen.

    As for ‘not understanding English’…well what you meant is not understanding gibberish. But this is typical of your rude style of attempting to belittle anyone who has the temerity to challenge you. Call me a ‘wally’ if you like….I won’t call you anything derogatory back…only because you claim to be an octogenarian.There…I’ve made my point…so carry on Robert, I’m in a minority of one…but I will speak out against you or anybody else as and when I please..as you do. We’ll just have to agree to differ…as ever.

  150. Gary45% says:

    Robert J Sutherland@6.24
    It’s a difficult situation.
    Any chance I get regarding “polite” conversations with the population who still believe the Empire mind control, I always point them in the direction WoS.
    I always have a few WBB in my possession and politely ask them if they want to get the actual facts to what is happening in the country.
    It is hard because there are some people who have genuine socialist values and when you tell them the SNP are the only party(IMHO) who are championing these values, I still get “Aye am no voting fur that Samin ur Sturgin ur the SNP they’re Tories ” even spending time talking to them and producing actual facts they still “believe” the Empire! actually they don’t, because they are re-living their parents beliefs.
    It will change, “we see it”, but it will take time, I mean some in Scotland are still voting for the Tories??? how much evidence do you need to give a population for a party who TOTALLY DEVISTATED Scotland?
    O/T as I write this have Angerland been pumped by our French cousins?( as I don’t have live TV)

  151. Cactus says:

    Keiza Dugdale is a can’t.

    What is it they called them on that Pixar animation.. ‘Harpies.’

    Always harpin’ on aboot summin eh aye.

    Time to bring Scotland out of the Cold as Ice Age.

    An independent 21st Century Scotland sounds good to me CC!

  152. scottieDog says:

    @mike cassidy
    Ref the rugby, I think that sums up why I rarely visit murrayfield these days.
    The whole edinburgh no voting deer stalker brigade just puts me off. Perhaps I’m too sensitive.
    P.s I’m from Edinburgh originally.

    Great result however.

  153. Gary45% says:

    Come on lads we all sing from the same hymn sheet.
    I think it’s time for a group hug.
    Big Chillax time, have a wee dram.

  154. ronnie anderson says:

    @ CameronB Brodie {I’m a post-structuralist vegetarian} LoL
    I hope your banana trees hiv low hanging fruits Cameron.

  155. Cactus says:

    Is that Quagmire on the right cliff edge..?

    Giggity.

    Awwweright.

  156. galamcennalath says:

    Just looking on The Rev’s twitter. Labour getting too right wing.

    This is a trend in English politics …

    First Labour tried to out-Tory the Tories.
    Then the Tories tried to out-UKIP UKIP.
    Now Labour have joined in and are tried to out-UKIP UKIP.

    … England is moving dangerously far to the right at an alarming rate.

    We have to leave this Union.

  157. brewsed says:

    Neatly done Chris Cairns.

    While Plato and the poets and the mystics exalted the Sirens to cosmic functions, to the popular mind, they are mainly things, if not wholly evil, yet fearful and to be shunned. Things to be shunned. I can go along with that.

    But where have they been transported to? Not the Corryvreckan, too placid for that. The Torran Rocks of Mull? No they can get off at low tide. Flannan Isle? Maybe not. How about farther off-shore. That will do – just the place – where there is sweet rock-all.

  158. Gary45% says:

    Gala@7.02.
    Big problem in England is the Yoon parties have no imagination/ideas, on how to run a country.
    The Tories fell into the “rise of UKIP” trap and now it looks like the labstainers are doing the same.
    If any of them had taken the bull by the horns and actually did what they were voted to do, Brexit/UkipBNP would have been dead in the water before it even started to “glug”.

    I personally believe England are not as racist/far right as even “I accuse them of being”, but! and its a big but, someone has to give them hope/vision without turning politics into a reality show.(maybe toooo late)
    The ironic thing is, I have a lot of friends Dan Saf who voted brexit and are currently in Europe on holiday, they love Europe!? but believed the Yoon/racist media, when you opened their eyes to simple things like what about the EHIC card? it was like Doh I never thought of that!!!

  159. yesindyref2 says:

    So basically speaking there’s Gavin Hastings, but which others from the starting 15 of the 1990 Grand Slam decider against England came out for a NO vote in 2014?

    G Hastings, Stanger, S Hastings, Lineen, Tukalo; Chalmers, Armstrong; Sole (C), Milne, Burnell; Gray, Cronin; Jeffrey, Calder, White

    And what about the other 7 of the squad?

  160. Breeks says:

    Glamaig says:
    4 February, 2017 at 5:10 pm
    The budget thing – this is how politics should work. When I lived in Germany I was struck by how different politics was there. There would be a crisis or impasse for a week or two then the parties would get together and hammer out a compromise, and everybody would move on. Compromise is not something you see much in FPTP Westminster politics….”

    Wee blast from the past there Glamaig. I remember being annoyed that Holyrood was adopting so many Westminster protocols when the parliament was being set up. I thought is was an opportunity missed to start from scratch, not just copy the principles of the double swords length of Westminster. Obviously Labour weren’t going to do anything imaginative or original with the way Holyrood functioned. It was always going to be a mini-me Westminster, and looking at the dogs breakfast of a building they came up with, I suppose I’m kinda glad they didn’t.

    I actually wonder if that’s why Westminster has never properly integrated with Europe. Shouting and bawling, jeering and conduct better suited to a kids playground; it just doesn’t work when you have 28 nations trying get things done. Until Westminster is gone, together with its House of Lords, I don’t think we can fully appreciate what properly constructive government is going to look and feel like without our “feudal superiors” demanding a say.

    There are so many ideas and innovations in Scotland which are on hold, or just can’t get started until this Union is gone and Scotland can breath on its own outside of its straight-jacket. We can make a decision and have nobody interfere. Doesn’t sound very much, but once we cut loose, there will be no looking back.

  161. CameronB Brodie says:

    ronnie anderson
    Ronnie, I’d have hoped that it’s becoming apparent to all that every good minion needs to respect power. More importantly though, IMHO, is they need to “Respect the Banana”. 😉

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq1Y4PF0eKE

  162. scottieDog says:

    @yesindyref
    Knew about Hastings and Calder voting no i think but not others.
    Cronin and gray went back south I think.

    Back then the majority of team was borders, Edinburgh private school FPS, or the exiles e.g London scottish.

  163. Rock says:

    Robert Louis,

    “Robert Peffers at 1244pm,

    I have long admired your postings on here, however, your comments regarding homosexuality are somewhat odd. I kind of understand what you ‘might’ be saying, but sadly, I do not think you are making your point clearly. The result of your lack of clarity and some of your other assertions about ”straight’ people not holding pride marches’, do make you sound a touch biggotted.”

    For the record, Robert Peffers also made a racist comment when he first started posting here, for which he made excuses bringing in his late grandmother, but never apologised.

    If one sounds like a bigot, one is a bigot.

  164. yesindyref2 says:

    I’ll give anyone who claims the 1990 Grand Slam squad were all NO voters a helping hand here – identify the players in this, the players the Record of all believeable papers, claimed played in the 1990 squad, including Andy Nicol and Kenny Logan who got their first caps in 1992 – 2 years after.

    http://archive.is/xamHO

    You have been conned by Unionist media – what’s this website all about?

  165. Iain Colquhoun says:

    Indeed, Fraser and Dugdale see nothing as their whole outlook on life and Scotland is clouded by their british prejudice and the unionist death dance.

    Come ndependence thier tune will change, but it will take time for the british BO to disappear entirely!

  166. DerekM says:

    Haha nice one Chris,is it not about time the red tories just join the Ruth Harrison we are not tories party.

    I see fat gimp boy has finally met his calling working for the premium fake news distributors the Daily Mail,with the pish and lies he gibbers he should fit in well.

  167. Gary45% says:

    FFS Kids lighten up, Mr Peffers has an opinion,
    BIG FUC*IN DEAL.
    Point your aggression to the bastards who don’t give a flying FCK about Scotland.
    Ah see Whingestan won at the wugga, breck oot the buntin.

    Feckin CHUNTS

  168. Dr Jim says:

    Lots of politicians write in papers they might not normally agree with in order to get their own message accross to a wider audience and most of us accept that to be the case

    But there’s a disturbing trend happening within the Labour ranks of their own politicians and supporters agreeing and and actively supporting the Daily Mail which as everybody on any side of the political divide knows is a rabid Tory right wing gas yer granny swastica saluting piece of filth and I can only say if I were a Labour man I’d be deeply concerned with this rising affection for such a publication which by tradition would never have been tolerated by “The working man”

    So a question to Labour folk in Scotland

    Are you happy with this?

  169. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    4 February, 2017 at 7:40 pm
    Robert Louis,

    Another one. Why are all you scroats going after a man in his 80’s?

    Rock you’re clearly not the full ticket and that’s fine but seek help dude.

  170. Cactus says:

    Different languages travel far.

    Scotland is vibrating.. CAN you hear and feel it?

    C major.

  171. James Barr Gardner says:

    Robert Peffers

    Sir you are one of the reasons I love reading Wings as for the your detractors I don’t find anything enlightening in their postings.

    So much for the quiet year, I guess the phoney war is over it’s now the Battle for Scotland.

    May Council Elections SNP 1 & 2.

  172. Rock says:

    Lochside,

    “Your constant broken record flawed ‘historical’ analysis of Scotland’s ‘sovereignty’ ( I notice you’ve dropped your we are still ‘British’ after Indy shite) appeals to the majority of posters, but not me.”

    It stopped appealing to me two years ago:

    Robert Peffers,

    “The United Kingdom is a bipartite union of the kingdoms of Scotland and England.”

    With due respect Robert, what you say is correct but only of interest to academics and pub bores.

    For all practical purposes, ‘Britain’ and ‘British’ are known both locally and throughout the formerly colonised world as meaning the POLITICAL country governed from Westminster which flies the Union Jack (or whatever its true name is).

    An independent Scotland governed from Edinburgh (I would prefer from Glasgow or Dundee) will not be ‘British’ or part of ‘Britain’ for all practical purposes.

    If I remember right, a majority of Scots according to the last census consider themselves to be Scottish not British.

    Anyone arguing that we will remain ‘British’ after independence is flogging a dead horse.

    The same applies to the finer points of the Treaty of Union which you so often quote. The Treaty has been broken a million times and no one cares about it any more, not even the SNP.

    When we become independent, hopefully within the next 310 years, we will be Scottish citizens and people in the rUK and ‘proud but Scots’ will be ‘British’ citizens. End of story.

  173. Gary45% says:

    Indy2@7.40
    Did any of them come out and support Indy?
    If my mug shot had been stuck on some shitey news? rag under false pretences I would have stood on the ramparts of Embra Castle and told the fuckers to “go and do wan”.
    if memory serves me they did FUCK ALL.
    If you nail your colours to the mast ( which I have done for many other reasons)you take it on the chin, if the fuckers bring you down you you tell them “you better no be here when I get back up”.
    That normally works.

  174. Rock says:

    heedtracker,

    “Another one. Why are all you scroats going after a man in his 80’s?”

    I tried to refrain but was attacked by his sycophants for mentioning his age:

    “I do not really wish to hurt him in his old age but I can’t stand his pish about Scotland being North Britain for example.

    Something on which him and Gordon Brown are in perfect agreement.”

  175. Cactus says:

    Sometimes Big G maj.
    (the key of ur electricity.. just listen..)

    Scotland and the Spanish islands are not so different.

    They can, we can and we will.

    We speak the same, we are cool.

    We’re SO close to Yebo! 🙂

  176. Croompenstein says:

    @heed

    Another one. Why are all you scroats going after a man in his 80’s?

    I’m sure Auld Bob can take care of himsel heed but you are right I find it very disrespectful some of the language being used against him.. FFS come oan

  177. CameronB Brodie says:

    Geek alert!

    Hope folk don’t think I’m becoming a pest. Re. the voting patern of former Scottish rugby internationals. It’s almost certainly a “class” thing but I think analysis needs to avoid an overly Marxian interpretation. I’m privately educated so might end up on the wrong side of the ensuing class war, through no fault of my own.

    The Roots of Domination: Beyond Bourdieu and Gramsci

    http://burawoy.berkeley.edu/Marxism/Roots%20of%20Domination.Sociology.pdf

    Cultural Theory and Popular Culture An Inroduction

    https://uniteyouthdublin.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/john_storey_cultural_theory_and_popular_culturebookzz-org.pdf

    Still ‘Winning Space?’: Updating Subcultural Theory

    The discussion that follows questions the efficacy of subcultural theory as it has been understood since the work of the CCCS rejuvenated an interest in the field. A reconsideration of the corpus will necessarily explore the gaps and limits that undermine the relevance and theoretical potency of the work of Hebdige and others. To illuminate the blind spots of subcultural theory, the spaces, and specifically the global contexts and local circumstances in which certain cultural practices unfold, a thicker description of the multiple forces and vectors that shape them is required. The (retreat to the) spectacularization of subcultures offers ineffective descriptive tools and often obscures the complexity of current cultural practices that constitute, and are constituted by, the aleatory effects of a globalized cultural economy. As a corrective, the notion of “space”, an aspect of their work which has only recently been reclaimed, will be addressed in more detail.

    http://www.rochester.edu/in_visible_culture/issue2/IVC-Subcultures/Geoff_Stahl.html

  178. yesindyref2 says:

    Baird last cap 1988 – was in the 1983 Grand Slam. I’m not good at putting names to faces – perhaps our resident sports commentator could do the job from the Record photo?

    1983 Squad: Aitken, Deans, Milne, Smith, Paxton. Calder. Leslie. Beattie. Laidlaw (Roy!), Rutherford, Baird, Robertson, Renwick, Pollock, Dods.

    Gregor Townsend mentioned earlier – first cap 1993.

  179. Meg merrilees says:

    I learned two things from the BBC news tonight:

    It is the first time in a decade that Scotland has won their opening match in The 6 Nations.

    Scotland has only ever won their opening match in The 6 Nations twice.

    .. that the Queensferry Crossing which should have been open last year, will not open till May.

    I also read that:

    Investors in a Scottish commercial property deal have insisted on the inclusion of a get out clause that allows them to walk away if a second Independence Referendum is called.

    Tory MSP, Douglas Ross said Scotland is now the most expensive place to live and work in the UK

    From W.O.S. website this week I learned that :

    Scotland’s rugby team were amazing and beat ireland, the favourites, by 27 -22

    Chrysaor , the biggest, independent oil and gas sector company in the N. Sea has just completed a £2.5bn deal with Shell which they expect to run for at least the next 20 years with a projected 350 million barrels of oil and gas, and which Shell have given them £1bn towards eventual decommissioning. They are carrying over 400 jobs and see this as an investment in Scotland and the UK

    France is purchasing a huge, expensive building in Edinburgh with a possibility of it becoming a new Embassy and that there is an increase in similar business from other enquiries.

    I found the link to a live webcam and watched the final piece of the Queensferry crossing be raised into place on this stunning bridge which is almost complete, on time and under budget and should open in May. A rainbow framed the exact area as the manoeuvre came to a conclusion.

    An influential solicitor advocate who supported for ‘Better Together’ has changed sides and has joined the SNP because he detests the path the Tory Government has chosen to take and the damage Brexit will cause..

    That a hard border between Scotland and England would be ‘wrong in principle and impossible to enforce.’ Dominic Raab – Conservative MP and Tory Brexit minister.

    The SNP won the Kilmarnock east by-election with 48.7% of the vote, up 2.1%.

    Sadly, only people reading this blog know which one is the ‘fake news’

    PS Scotland Women’s Hockey team beat Ghana in their section of the World League Hockey tournament this afternoon.

  180. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:
    4 February, 2017 at 8:07 pm
    heedtracker,

    Well if you tough guys here went after a man in his 80’s in front of me like this, there’d be a very different response and very different response is also being nice.

  181. Dr Jim says:

    Right I’m pitching in on the row, didnae want to but here goes
    There’s nobody poking their fingers in anybody’s faces, there’s nobody punching anybody, there’s not even anybody audibly shouting at anybody
    If folk don’t like something they read or don’t agree with just remember writng something badly intended or meant to belittle the other person in return whatever side you happen to be on is a pointless exercise and there are no winners except for the lurking Trolls who feed off it

    A lot of us haven’t even met each other but most of us consider each other as pals we don’t know yet and our team relies on us staying that way

    It’s how we’ll win!

    (No offence intended) that last was my wee comedy part

  182. yesindyref2 says:

    @Gary45%
    There’s a grand total of 18 in that photo. How many of them were in the starting XV in 1990, which the “reenactment” was supposedly all about, and how many the 1984 starting XV – plus subs? And how many were in the 1925 squad?

    How many does that leave of the total number of players in 1984 and 1990 that were NOT in that photo of 17 players?

    Like I say, it was a typically divisive Unionist con. Sadly it worked on many unaware Indy supporters.

  183. ian m says:

    A wee take I had on the cartoon was the SNP sailing up the political middle between Kex on the left and Murdo on the right.
    As to the rugby I am happy to see Scotland win anytime and any sport.
    Hastings and his ilk are no voters for their own reasons
    British Lions Tours would likely be in jeopardy with an Independent Scotland, at least that is what they would have been threatened with as would all athletes.In the same way pensioners were.
    If the bookies are giving 2/5 on a successful Indy campaign we may see a few businesses start to get on the right side of the result
    It is a shame the news media never will.

  184. ian m says:

    Is it not time for Slab to take control of their own party and their own destiny and embrace an Independent Scotland?

  185. Rock says:

    Dr Jim,

    “A lot of us haven’t even met each other but most of us consider each other as pals we don’t know yet and our team relies on us staying that way”

    Do we want this site to be a cosy chat shop for a certain group of posters and their pals?

  186. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lochside says: 4 February, 2017 at 6:46 pm:

    ” … just stop posting multiple times; ‘back up my claims’?…no, they are just my observations and judgement that your postings are too frequent and repetitive.”

    Sheesh! Are you really as bloody stupid as that comment indicates you are? Have not more than I told you that you do not need to read any posts of mine, or anyone else’s you do not like, – scroll past them and ignore them. It won’t bother me and probably not bother them. Just why does it bother you? Has it not occurred to you that there are new people coming here all the time.

    There is very good reason for repetition. You attempt to justify your objections to my posts about, for example, the mistaken belief that Scots are not going to be British if they free themselves from the Westminster stranglehold.

    Do you not realise that belief is proof that you have given in to the Westminster propaganda? We Scots are every bit as entitled to be Britons as any of the other residents of the British Isles. We are not inferior to anyone else in Britain.

    “.Nice example there of your insulting and typical misinterpretation and extrapolation of what I actually wrote … Plainly, Being ‘British ‘AFTER Indi can only be a geographical description not a national or citizenship designation.

    If you come out with stupid statements, what else can you expect?

    “I am not confused about the UK and Britain and the British…”

    You sure as hell are by your own claims. Not only that but even given rational explanations you still come out with silly claims – as you are doing right now.

    ” … it’s your bee and your bonnet..”

    Nah! It just happens to be the stark truth that you cannot accept.

    ” … I told you before, try telling an Irish citizen from the R.O.I that they are ‘british’. ‘Iberian’ has no real meaning to a Portuguese or Spaniard…neither should being ‘British’ mean anything to a Free Scottish citizen.”

    Now that is exactly the point. First you accuse me of repetition then you say, “I’ve told you before”. That’s repetition.

    Then you attempt to make silly points like, “Try telling that to the Irish, the Iberians or the Portuguese or Spaniard…

    First of, I’m not telling it to the Irish, the Iberians or the Portuguese or Spaniard…. I’m telling it to the people of Scotland. Mind you some of them may have been the Irish, Iberian, Portuguese or Spaniard, but not if they have become the People of Scotland.

    The Irish, whether they like it or not, live in the British Isles and are thus British. If they choose to claim not to be British then, like you, they have conceded their right to be British to the United Kingdom. As for the rest you mention their situation is nothing like that of Scotland and Westminster. In case you do not know it that is the claim made officially by the Spanish Government. If you choose to listen and believe the Westminster lies then that’s your problem – not mine,

    ” … As for ‘not understanding English’…well what you meant is not understanding gibberish.”

    No, Lochside – what I meant is that you do not understand actual words in English like the meaning of, “British”, “Britain”, and the United Kingdom. Just because the Westminster Establishment has brainwashed you to believe otherwise does not change what the actual words mean.

    ” … But this is typical of your rude style of attempting to belittle anyone who has the temerity to challenge you.”

    Well no, Lochside, I’m not the one to belittle you for you do that very well yourself.

    ” … Call me a ‘wally’ if you like…”

    Matter of fact I do NOT like but you leave me little choice. No matter what perfectly logical explanation I give you, you come back with the very same illogical things over and over again.

    ” … I won’t call you anything derogatory back…only because you claim to be an octogenarian.”

    Oh! Don’t let my age bother you – be my guest and call me whatever you want to. It won’t bother me in the slightest.

    I’ll tell you what does bother me, though. A numptie with so little sense that he picks fights instead of scrolling past the comments he does not like and necessitates me needing to reply to such daft objections. BTW: they are not so much for your benefit but as explanations to those who might not understand whatever the bee in your particular bonnet happens to be.

    ” … There…I’ve made my point…”

    Sorry to say I don’t think you have.

    “so carry on Robert, I’m in a minority of one…”

    I don’t know about that either.

    “but I will speak out against you or anybody else as and when I please..as you do.”

    Yes. I noticed. I just wish you could give a reasoned and logical explanation of what it is that bothers you.

    You accuse me of things but offer no proof that I am wrong.

    “We’ll just have to agree to differ…as ever.”

    That’s the first sensible thing you have said today.

    I’m really sorry that we do differ but, no matter what else, we Scots are living on the British Isles and that means, no matter what political arrangements are eventually the outcome, we are British now, We were British before the Anglo Saxons arrived in Britain and we will still be Britons whatever the eventual arrangements end up as.

    What I hope we will not continue to be is under the rule of the United Kingdom that is no longer a unite kingdom.

    The Irish, Welsh and English, I hope, will then please themselves, but they sure as hell will not take away either my right to be Scottish or my right to be British because is not their right to do so.

  187. Rock says:

    Or the cult following of a certain poster?

  188. Meg merrilees says:

    Croompenstein@7.46

    I find that report chilling!

    There will be no NHS in the south soon as implied in this tweet from the Consulate

    USA discussing making GB super-competitive in life sci/pharma. Innovation in operating model = crucial.

  189. Rock says:

    heedtracker,

    “Well if you tough guys here went after a man in his 80’s in front of me like this”

    No poster insults him as he insults posters who don’t agree with his “humble” opinions.

  190. Glamaig says:

    just thought I would share this beautiful song

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bIhwcjzYns

    have a hanky ready for a wee greet

  191. Rock says:

    Example:

    Robert Peffers,

    “Sheesh! Are you really as bloody stupid as that comment indicates you are?”

  192. Another Union Dividend says:

    Dr Jim @ 7.48

    We all remember how “socialist” Ian Murray used the Daily Mail, aided by Alan Roden, to demonise Neil Hay in 2015 by misrepresenting three year old tweets thus saving his seat after the SNP were leading in the Ashcroft constituency poll. .

  193. Robert Peffers says:

    @Socrates MacSporran says: 4 February, 2017 at 1:41 pm:

    ” … When will the BBC ever learn – BRITAIN is NOT another word for England? It is not all about the Common Enemy.”

    Three Cheers for that, Socrates. Exactly my own feelings and they have been since I could think properly. It really annoys me they should claim our birth-rights.

  194. Rock says:

    Robert Peffers,

    “The Irish, whether they like it or not, live in the British Isles and are thus British. If they choose to claim not to be British then, like you, they have conceded their right to be British to the United Kingdom.”

    “Conceded”?

    They escaped from being “British” after a long and bloody struggle.

    Who in their right mind in an independent Scotland would want to be called “British”?

    I wait to see if you (and your sycophants) can counter my point without resorting to insults.

  195. yesindyref2 says:

    @ian m
    That’s what they tried to imply, but it’s not the British Lions, it’s the British & Irish Lions – including players from Ireland – the Republic of Ireland.

    Last time I looked, Ireland was not in tbe UK.

  196. geeo says:

    I do not usually respond to the likes of Rock, but shall gently remind him that “Britain” is a GEOGRAPHIC construct and NOT a country. (Like “Scandinavia”).

    The only way you will “leave Britain” will be by a sudden onset of Continental Drift…

  197. Rock says:

    If we want to hold on to our “right” to be “British” after independence, what was wrong with Gordon Brown calling us “North Britain” BEFORE independence?

  198. Stu Mac says:

    @mike Cassidy
    =============

    You are quite correct. Though that phrase is sometimes bandied about by folk who don’t really understand what it means. Like lots of things mind you.

  199. Gary45% says:

    Indyref2@8.17
    The thing is, although it was manipulated by the media, the players whoever they were, allowed their names /faces to be associated with the photograph/cause.

    Everybody calm doon “tak a wee dram in yer Horlicks”

    Real news.
    Avocados have doubled in price this week. and Tescos own brand dark chocolate is up 50%.
    Bummer.

  200. Rock says:

    geeo,

    “I do not usually respond to the likes of Rock, but shall gently remind him that “Britain” is a GEOGRAPHIC construct and NOT a country.”

    So after independence, we will tell “foreigners” that we are “British”, GEOGRAPHICALLY?

    Like the Portugese call themselves “Iberian”, GEOGRAPHICALLY?

    And our passports will state: “Scottish, GEOGRAPHICALLY British”?

  201. Stu Mac says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    ==================

    “When prophecy fails” noted that people on the less committed edges of a cult were faced with incontroversial evidence they did change their ideas. But the core, most committed went into denial and often became even more committed.

  202. Cactus says:

    Love yer Scotland.

    I do.

    Who else is gonnae?

    You!

    Have a grand Saturday night, not so distant homefolks.

    I may be back..

  203. yesindyref2 says:

    @Gary45%
    Past rugby players were as entitled as anyone to “go public” with support for NO or YES. In the event the Record named just 6 of that 18, 2 of whom came later, so 4 out of 15 (or 22). You can bet if there was more of that 1990 squat in that 18, they would have named them.

    So 4 for NO, 11 + 7 reserves we don’t know. It was also just a few days before the Ref, the Record must have scoured the four corners of the known universe to get even that paltry 18 out of over 200 since 1980 that have been capped for Scotland.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Scotland_national_rugby_union_players

  204. Gary45% says:

    Meg Merrilees@8.24
    Not had a look at the link,
    But as the USA live on Big Pharma it’s no surprise they are desperate to get their claws into the NHS.(forget innovation) this is their goal, after all they have to make pharma to counter the shit food they produce for human consumption.
    A simple analogy is the world has been sold the ” wonder drug” Statin, yes it may help some people, but when you look into the side effects they are horrendous.
    So America make statins= America make other drugs to counter the side effects of the statins, so it’s win win for good old America.( this is one of millions)
    When they get their grubby paws on the English NHS it will be a disaster.
    (Scotland’s NHS is not for sale)
    Never trust “Big Pharma” they = shysters and lawyers.

  205. Joemcg says:

    I don’t want to join the Peffers bashing but he denied he insulted me or other posters if they did not agree with him a few stories back. Well…see above! On another note reading the rugby comments my heart is not in it supporting our team since 2014. The archetypal 80 minute patriots that attend Murrayfield give me the boak in their pretendy scotchmen for a day outfits. Did Hastings miss that kick against THEM in 1991 deliberately? My cat would have converted it.

  206. Ron Maclean says:

    @ Lochside

    You’re not alone.

    Looks like we’ll have a surplus of hypocrisy when we’re independent.

  207. yesindyref2 says:

    The archetypal 80 minute patriots that attend Murrayfield give me the boak

    I’ve been there loads of times, sadly not since that debenture carry on. It just got far too expensive for me.

  208. Meg merrilees says:

    Appreciate that this might be a very difficult, long running situation but Aslef and RMT Unions now being set at each others’ throats by Southern rail deal.

    Just what the Tories want!

    Divide and rule!

    The example of the racist abuse case of Mc Kinnon a solicitor advocate towards a non-white woman and her 4 year old child on a Virgin train should dispel any idea that trains do not need guards/conductors/managers .
    On this occasion, the guard challenged the man and sat with the woman and child till B.Transport Police arrived on the train and removed the offender.

  209. CameronB Brodie says:

    Ron Maclean
    Would you say hypocrisy and civility are easily distinguished as being different?

  210. handclapping says:

    I hae my doots anent Murdo as a Siren; he is the most inaudible speaker I have ever had the misfortune to have to listen to. He is more like Murdo the Mumble ( a sort of uninteligible blue Minion fitted with a mute)

    He also points up a fault in our Scottish democracy. We need to change the list to specify that the first seven places on any list shall be persons who have contested a constituency seat in the Region at that election and also that a person who has served two Parliaments as a list member shall be inelligible for a place on any list.

  211. Hamish100 says:

    Hi – can we stop attacking each other. Even agent provocateurs.

    For what it is worth I will repost my comments earlier as it relates to the original cartoon.
    The Scottish Enlightenment –

    Labour branch office could have worked with the SNP to deliver a budget . But as in the brexit vote at Westminster they prefer to walk hand in hand with the neo con Tories.

    Wee Wullie Rennie – libs do deals with the Tories and labour depending on the parliament. I note he s missing in the cartoon. Has he submerged already looking for nuke subs?

    Their influence is zero as they are blinded by hatred of the snp and greens.

    They should return their wages to parliament and go home and brood. They have offered nothing positive to Scoland for the past decade or so and for the future.

    Enlightenment escapes them.

  212. CameronB Brodie says:

    And while I’m on my high-horse, let me remind folk that only the Sith deal in absolutes. Where’s Thrawn? 😉

  213. Lenny Hartley says:

    yesindy2ref John Jefferies said of his day job, Which was was his Borders farm, of which he had only one regret: “If I stand on a hill I can see England”

  214. Conan the Librarian says:

    I don’t enjoy it when Wingers go all “People’s Front of Judea”.

    The Yoons do though…

  215. scottieDog says:

    @yesindyref2
    One of them looks like John Rutherford who had retired. Craig chalmers was resident 10.
    As for the vocal Naws..
    Sole – edinburgh accies
    Hastings – Watsons
    Nicol – dundee hsfp. Ironically a yes town now.

  216. Valerie says:

    @Meg Merrilees

    I saw a pic on Twitter of the beautiful Edinburgh building purchased by the French.

    I’m pretty sure property prices will increase when Indyref2 is called, so perhaps this is a canny investment purchase for them.

    Someone on Twitter was very sour about it of course, saying it was a replacement for their current premises, but it looks a big, beautiful building.

  217. TYRAN says:

    “… When will the BBC ever learn – BRITAIN is NOT another word for England”

    It is though. Scotland is Caledonia. The area below it is Britannia. A map, sir.

    http://cdn3.vox-cdn.com/assets/4822044/RomanEmpire_117.svg.png

  218. ScottieDog says:

    Also looks like Jim Calder (stewarts Melville) and David Jonson (Watsons) in the pic (1984 slam) Doddie weir is at the back – 1995 squad I think.

    Yes very few 1990 players in that.

  219. stewartb says:

    O/T
    So, I learn today f that the Secretary of State for Health, Jeremy Hunt MP has been in the USA to discuss UK-US relationships over health matters, life sciences and R&D.

    We should remember that his department, the Department of Health (DH), has the following remit: “(We) lead, shape and fund health and care in England, ……”

    So it is not enough that this Secretary of State has his own seat in Cabinet – potentially influencing all aspects of UK policy – whilst having a writ that runs only in England, is he now representing all four health systems in the UK and also Scotland’s life sciences sector over relations with the USA?

    Scotland’s democratic deficit is not only a function of election results. It is completely pervasive.

  220. Robert Peffers says:

    @CameronB Brodie says: 4 February, 2017 at 6:06 pm:

    “Your welcome, I just wish it wasn’t necessary. Mind now, I’m re-tracing old paths.”

    Me too. A long time ago I came across an EU webpage, or perhaps even an EC webpage, that had contact addresses for getting information, and even how to make complaints about, the Rights of Self Determination.

    I couldn’t find it or anything like it this time. Thinking about it now it probably was the EC as they perhaps would be doing the routine donkey work for the actual workings of EU matters.

  221. Ron Maclean says:

    @ CameronB Brodie 9.26pm

    ‘If Dougie wass here he would tell you”

  222. Croompenstein says:

    FM pulls up Brillo…

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/827992542708891649

    Just let him stew in his unionjackerybritnatukokspunkbubble FM don’t dignify the wee lickspittle with a response 🙁

  223. scottieDog says:

    Ref the British lions i belive we will in time have greater representation in that team post indy.

  224. Robert Peffers says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland says: 4 February, 2017 at 6:24 pm:

    ” … Maybe we need to ask ex-BT folk like Mike Dailly what finally made a difference.”

    I came across an on-line newspaper report by Mike Dailly telling of what finally made him change. However I was researching something else at the time and later couldn’t find it again.

    Can’t even remember what paper it was but have a notion it was The Herald.
    Anyone on here who can speak from experience…?

  225. Robert Peffers says:

    @bjsalba says: 4 February, 2017 at 6:27 pm:

    “It was clear to me that the description given by your MSP was generous. Participation on the Committee and Commission proceedings by the “opposition” MSPs was geared exclusively to encouraging interviewees to gripe and snipe at the SNP, in the hope that they might come up with a factoid they could craft into a “blow for SNP”.

    In the beginning Holyrood did operate in a spirit of co-operation until the SNP began to make headway and then some of the Ex-Westminster Labour lot got into Holyrood and it was all down-hill after that.

  226. Cactus says:

    Our view is clear.

    Go bared with ye.

    Lot’s of bufties, mon included.

    Ah know you need it, an aye know you want it..

    Us.

  227. yesindyref2 says:

    @ScottieDog
    Yes, and from comments made in the past it’s barely possible a couple at least of the current squad are strongly YES …

    … naming no names of course!

  228. carjamtic says:

    Okay,okay so who is the dipole and who is the shapley ?

    Is culture just something that develops on a damp bedroom wall ? remember the Red/Blue/Orange Tories sole aim in Scotland via Faslane (for example) is the total meltdown of the human spirit (ably assisted by the MSM/BBC).

    What are we doing ? Standing around here like ‘corner boys’ bickering,waiting to ‘do’ somebody that looks at us the wrong way….and all the while that mob,attempt to siphon off our history,our culture,our fine arts,our language,from the social reality from which they all emerged and watch them die,like uprooted plants.

    As a country,Scotland is Unique,in it’s history,culture and language of that there is no doubt,can we can all agree,the ‘finer points’ can be ‘discussed’ later……

    #PullMaPinkie

  229. stewartb says:

    ian m @ 8:17 pm

    On Scottish rugby players and IndyRef1, on a BBC panel discussing the upcoming referendum, one of my rugby heroes, one of the Hastings brothers, said that he was voting No because (and I paraphrase as best as I can recall), he could not deny future Scottish players the opportunity to play for the British Lions.

    My TV screen only just survived various projectiles. Was this deliberate scaremongering or a lack of knowledge (hardly credible), or lack of respect, for those Lions (British and Irish Lions) that hail from the Republic? Of course, he was allowed to spout without any challenge. It has stuck firmly in my memory. No more heroes anymore!

  230. Robert Peffers says:

    @Capella says: 4 February, 2017 at 6:45 pm:

    ” … disagreement and debate are fine with me too. But ill-tempered “ad hominem” attacks lower the tone IMO.”

    Anyone who joined a debating society at school learned the rules of debate. Not only that but you could end up on the team that was taking the side that you, personally, did not agree with.

    In the situation of competition you learned to debate from that opposite point of view.

    Unfortunately the rules of the debating Society are not followed on the internet.

    Here’s a link to the Oxford Debating Society Rules if you are interested:-

    https://deb8s.ru/2011/02/07/oxford-union-rough-guide-to-debating/

  231. Legerwood says:

    Valerie says:
    4 February, 2017 at 9:39 pm
    @Meg Merrilees

    “”I saw a pic on Twitter of the beautiful Edinburgh building purchased by the French.

    I’m pretty sure property prices will increase when Indyref2 is called, so perhaps this is a canny investment purchase for them.

    Someone on Twitter was very sour about it of course, saying it was a replacement for their current premises, but it looks a big, beautiful building.””

    ………

    I believe the French are leasing the building not buying it but the lease is likely to be a long one, very long.

  232. Stoker says:

    Joemcg on 4 February, 2017 at 9:13 pm (Re; Scotland rugby)

    I get what you’re saying but this is one issue i disagree with you. The proud butts within the game rip my knittin’ and don’t even get me started on their parasitical patron.

    Do you follow football Joe? Well, Scottish football is run by very similar like-minded folk and that stems way way back long before anyone on WOS was born.

    You don’t have to dig very far in most, if not all, of Scottish sport to find these type of people at the top pulling strings or at very least loitering near the top, or in the background, with intent.

    Nothing will change in these fields (pardon the pun) until we are independent. Until then i will continue to support my country in everything from Tiddlywinks to The Tango 🙂 for two very good reasons – That Thistle and The Saltire belong to us.

    I’ll be fecked if i let that lot take them from us as well.

  233. yesindyref2 says:

    @Legerwood
    125 years lease for the French Consualte.

  234. Croompenstein says:

    Ignoring oor Terry Coombes, check this for a pic of new brig..

    https://twitter.com/AgnesMcFarlane/status/827841747820670977

  235. Meg merrilees says:

    Re my post at 8.09, apologies I should have written

    ‘which ones are fake news”

    – was pointing out some of the relentless negativity towards Scotland in the news, whereas facts and positive news on WOS website.

    Mike Dailly article in The Herald today – Why I’ve joined the SNP
    http://archive.is/f7uDQ

  236. fionan says:

    Lochside, I agree that the freebie unionist press like the metro need to be opposed. However, personally, I feel extremely disappointed that you suggest funding the wealthy, established, foreign-owned and questionably independence-supporting National and its rabidly unionist sister Herald to the tune of £70k, in preference to supporting our very own Scottish-owned grassroots new media such as iScot, and helping these to become established.

    iScot is the perfect hard copy to help the swithering soft No’s as it shows all of the best of Scotland and how we are still’punching above our weight’ on the home front as well as internationally, (not too poor, too wee, too stupid after all), but indeed far from it!

    iScot would be ideal for the purpose you speak of – the glossy attractive look appeals to all, young and old, new and old, loads of brilliant graphics, witty cartoons and funnies which convey the whole nasty unionist gameplan in its ‘joking-with-an-edge’ rather than with dry news and opinion pieces. And since iScot isn’t attached to any political party, it has appeal for all of the political spectrum, and the non-political also.

    During indyref1 campaign, lots of people clamoured for some sources of independent factual information, for news n views which reflect Scottish culture and values, which reflect the Scottish perspective. Yet the numbers of people who have continued to appreciate and support these new ventures simply do not reflect the need for such as these.

    The newsnet people, the iScot people, and others, stepped up to the plate to provide healthy, homegrown sources of factual and honest information to oppose the deluge of msm false news, all have worked so hard, investing time, money, energy,to provide real news. They have had to build these great media, online and hard copy, from scratch.

    I would rather support our very own Scottish media than trust the Herald group to help the independence movement. I would rather ensure the survival and establishment of our own media, helping them grow to fruition, to be there to provide our information and news up to and after independence. They are the ones who deserve our support. Suppose you went ahead and funded the National for all these freebies – what guarantee would the herald group give you that they wouldn’t do a very rapid U-turn on independence – especially if it appeared that indyref2 and a resounding YES was very close?

  237. Lochside says:

    Heedtracker: if you are calling me a ‘scrote’…go fuck yourself.
    Robert P. take your own advice nad scroll past.

  238. Cactus says:

    Viva everyone! 🙂

  239. yesindyref2 says:

    Here’s a riddle.

    What’s the difference between an Indy supporter?

  240. Robert Peffers says:

    @Rock says: 4 February, 2017 at 8:22 pm:

    ” … Do we want this site to be a cosy chat shop for a certain group of posters and their pals?”

    As illogical as usual, Rock. The only way WoS would ever become a certain group of posters and their pals is if we were all frightened to hold different views and did thus become a, “certain group of posters and their pals”.

    If we cannot hold differing views and talk about our differences then we might as well throw in the sponge right now for no one would ever learn anything from anyone else nor would anyone ever find out they were holding wrong views.

    I’ll give you the perfect example of what I mean.

    Scottish Schools have not taught the real history of Scotland in my lifetime. Much of it is utter lies. Now I’m not talking about cases where things could be interpreted in more than one way but things, when thought about, are obviously total lies.

    Like this one – The Jacobites are still being called Rebels in history. Now for irrefutable facts.

    The Jacobite uprising began in 1688 when The still independent Parliament of England rebelled against their Monarch and deposed him.

    They were the actual rebels because their Kingdom was a monarchy and they were rebelling against their rightful king.

    Not only that but The English and Scottish Kingdoms were then still independent. Whatever England did it could not be legally applied to Scotland and the English had just thrown out the shared monarch they had with Scotland so there wasn’t even a shared monarchy to claim to have applied his laws to both of his kingdoms.

    Yet in 1745 long after the Scottish King inherited the English crown and the rebellion of the English Parliament and even the signing of the Treaty of Union the English army was still slaughtering everything still alive across the Scottish Highlands. – Rebellious Scots?

    Aye!
    Richt!

    Do you not realise that was the exact instant that Westminster assumed that Westminster had full Sovereignty over Scotland?

    However, it was also the exact time that the two Kingdoms did not actually share a common monarch since 1603 and was why they forced the signing of the Treaty of Union in 1706/7.

  241. Croompenstein says:

    Leasky here referring to Brits… Leasky..

    https://twitter.com/LeaskyHT/status/827083964682792960

  242. Croompenstein says:

    Gove now tag teaming with Brillo against the FM..

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/828010920983019521

  243. Typical, they are caught between a rock and a hard place. Speaks volumes Chris

  244. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi yesindyref2 at 10:54 pm.

    You typed,
    “Here’s a riddle.
    What’s the difference between an Indy supporter?”

    That is an analogy for the duck riddle, therefore the difference between an Indy supporter is that one of its leg is both the same.

    And as for the difference between the other Indy supporter…
    He or She has one leg less too many.

    SEEMPLES!

  245. Cactus says:

    HOME is soon..

    Home is Scotland.
    X.

  246. Cactus says:

    Home is here.

    HOME is now.

  247. heedtracker says:

    Lochside says:
    4 February, 2017 at 10:49 pm
    Heedtracker: if you are calling me a ‘scrote’…go fuck yourself.
    Robert P. take your own advice nad scroll past.

    Hey leave my nad out of it.

    Self awareness isn’t one of your strong points, is it. I never understand guys like you that take their egos online. Its really not all about you.

  248. CameronB Brodie says:

    Brian Doonthetoon
    Not that I know such things as the difference between a duck but I do know that space is disease and danger wrapped in darkness and silence. Places tend to be less so.

    That’s “spatial theory” humour that is. To boldly go….

  249. Legerwood says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    4 February, 2017 at 10:31 pm
    @Legerwood
    “”125 years lease for the French Consualte.””

    ……….

    Report I read said 100 years but never sure how accurate these reports are hence long, very long lease seemed to cover any likely variation between different sources.

  250. heedtracker says:

    stewartb says:
    4 February, 2017 at 10:12 pm
    ian m @ 8:17 pm

    On Scottish rugby players and IndyRef1, on a BBC panel discussing the upcoming referendum, one of my rugby heroes, one of the Hastings brothers,”

    One of them was a Channel 4 late ref 1 campaign debate, with likes of comic Rory Bremner, also he was ferocious NO alright. Hastings stood up on the debate stage and told us how much all enjoyed the Commonwealth Games didn’t you, well that’s good enough, so vote NO, he roared. Never forgot that.

    Rory Bremner was also a ferocious NO but he kept neutral til that point. Most odd to see his anger at Scotland, even considering not being British anymore.

    Other vile sep news. New Tv ad for Morrisons, dad on couch with cute kid, she’s got him delicious doughnuts, wont share though, haha, cut to Morrison’s shop doughnut display of doughnuts in cute pink stripe packets five.

    But, where I buy them from Morrison’s in Scotland, same Morrison’s doughnuts come in deep print union jack boxes, very deep, ultra yoon zoomer deep colour print union jack boxes of five.

    Does it matter? I like doughnuts.

  251. heedtracker says:

    Report I read said 100 years but never sure how accurate these reports are hence long, very long lease seemed to cover any likely variation between different sources.

    Did it say also that a lot of other countries, EU and outside, are in the Edinburgh New Town market? Because they are. Its coming, for a that:D

  252. Lochside says:

    Heedbanger: ‘self awareness isn’t one of your strong points, is it. I never understand guys like you that take their egos online. Its really not all about you’.

    Irony isn’t your strongpoint bawbag, is it?

  253. ben madigan says:

    Friends – tensions running high today!! over nomenclatures?

    Thanks to Tyran for providing a map showing that Scotland was Caledonia and Ireland was Hibernia (Winterland!!).

    For 800 years the Irish refused to be British!
    They hate the term “The British Isles” and refuse to use it.Not even a Unionist/Loyalist in Northern ireland can use it without being called out and being told s/he’s out of date.

    The Irish say The “british isles” is an old-fashioned term with political overtones, coined back in the day when England (Britannia) ruled this north atlantic archipelago. And they won’t have it!

    Are they altogether wrong?
    Of course, anyone who want can self-style themselves as British, personally speaking, but people who do usually live in northern ireland and don’t carry an Irish passport – even though they have the right to.

  254. heedtracker says:

    Irony isn’t your strongpoint bawbag, is it?

    Pass. Whatever you’re at, about etc.

  255. heedtracker says:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencairn_House

    Christ British Ambassadors live like billionaires.

  256. heedtracker says:

    http://www.accountingweb.co.uk/tax/hmrc-policy/eu-foreign-service-costs-taxpayers-ps34bn-a-year

    Oldish costs but why British diplomacy looks like its all lotto winners.

    Hey Lochside, have you ever considered a career in the diplomatic service?

    You’d be a shoe in, with deputy ambassador Rock too:D.

  257. yesindyref2 says:

    Glad to see bawbags are back in fashion.

    Half of us wouldn’t be half the men we used to be without them. Hodensack as the Germans might say, though I’ve heard worse.

  258. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Sunday Times says:

    “Revealed:the huge gaps in the UK defences”

    Lots of no enough kit and Putin’s a bad man.

    I suspect TMay has promised to buy US military equipment to plug said ‘gaps’ on her recent visit to the ‘States.

    We’ll sell arms to the Turks and buy fae the US.

    So the post Brexit trade deals are going to revolve around arms based on fear of Muslims and Russians.

    Gies cheap food and consumer goods and we’ll buy your planes, tanks etc.

    Tax Payer screwed again.

  259. Valerie says:

    Check out this. John Nicolson throws down the gauntlet to our favourite snowflake

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/828031523429502977

  260. Meg merrilees says:

    In the Sunday Express tmrw… an article about Nicola being told to sell ‘Brand Scotland’

    finishes with a poll:

    Will Nicola Sturgeon eventually win Scottish Independence?

    91% or 29,673 think she doesn’t have what it takes; only 9% said yes.

    Have they really had 29,673 people answer the question in the sunday Express by 00.03 on Sunday morning???

  261. heedtracker says:

    euan mccolm Retweeted
    Muriel Gray ?@ArtyBagger 14h14 hours ago
    More
    Blistering piece from the ever elegant writer @JournoStephen that is both terrifying and depressing.

    Its probably not.

    Yoon rage, matched only by assorted scroats on this timeline up there.

  262. heedtracker says:

    I suspect TMay has promised to buy US military equipment to plug said ‘gaps’ on her recent visit to the ‘States.

    Dont forget the NHS £120 billion spends. Its a huge teamGB health care market, just waiting for USA health corps. But its not privatisation and never will be! Jacky Bird sneered at Alex Salmond, just before ref 1.

    She’s a good sneerer is Jacky, at Scotland’s First Ministers

  263. Meg merrilees says:

    Jockanese Wind Talker

    Re Sunday Times Defence gaps

    Apparently British warships are so noisy, Russian subs can detect them 100 miles away; drones costing £1bn are still not operational 12 years after they were ordered and the army bought light armoured vehicles that are too wide to get on the main RAF transport planes.

    On midnight news tonight; all above caused by bungling officials

  264. heedtracker says:

    Terrific essay boris!

    Some of their defenders, spin docs, all round bullshit artists, wet farts, on twitter. They really dont get paid enough as professional liars, no matter how much they get.

    euan mccolm Retweeted
    Michael Blackley ?@Mike_Blackley 15h15 hours ago
    More
    Daisley on Wishart and Nicolson: “They are SNP’s anti-journalist wing, a faction which has come to define the party’s attitudes to scrutiny”

  265. heedtracker says:

    Meg merrilees,

    drones costing £1bn are still not operational 12 years after they were ordered”

    But the factory is just outside Cambridge, so its a massive investment in to a very very tory zone, whether or not they see action.

    Imagine a £1bn drone plant next to say Paisley? Keep in mind, Cambridge and surrounds are extremely rich parts of teamGB anyway.

  266. Capella says:

    Isn’t Jackie married to John Bird, Sun Scotland editor? or am I mistaken?

    Maybe just a corporate entity without a mind of her own. Very lucrative though.

  267. Valerie says:

    @Meg Merrilees

    None of that stuff surprises me. There has been years of bullshit about our powerful defences whilst cuts. Its more akin to a ramshackle Dads Army.

    UK terrified of Russia, who leak just enough to the world of their near sci fi defences.

    Look at how fast Boris has rowed back on Syria. Now Assad is fine to govern. It makes me sick what they have done there.

    I so want out of this revolting Union.

  268. Big Phil says:

    HEED. Keep the Heid auld son ,division in oor ranks and all that,just ignore . Mr Peffers i love your comments ,I would love to have your knowledge,maybe someday people will realize that YOU have been fighting OOR cause for longer than they have lived ,I wish there where more like you. This wee blog is phenomenal, its an education and my first and last port of call of a day.I read every single comment and sometimes i comment(few tinnies in me granted cos am shy),you all have different personalities and thats what makes it great. We all have the same goal; but like a family, arguments will occur, take it all on the chin lads an lassies we are all Jock Tamson’s bairns.

  269. Croompenstein says:

    Oh John please leave this dongle dracker to play with himself…

    https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/828049302421458944

  270. defo says:

    Did I dream you dreamed about me?
    Were you hare when I was fox?
    Now my foolish boat is leaning
    Broken lovelorn on your rocks.

  271. Thepnr says:

    Passionate thread today. I love it.

    We all have a part to play before we gain Independence and the btl posters on Wings do that magnificently. Without passion we are lost.

    Keep it up, we’ll need that passion soon if we are to win. Love you all.

  272. Big Phil says:

    ^^ I second that @ Thepnr, without passion we are lost. Share your love .

  273. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh hey, just re-read my posting above at 7.27 pm and it’s very badly written. When I posted:

    “G Hastings, Stanger, S Hastings, Lineen, Tukalo; Chalmers, Armstrong; Sole (C), Milne, Burnell; Gray, Cronin; Jeffrey, Calder, White”

    I didn’t meant they’d all come out for NO, I meant that was the starting XV for the 1990 Grand Slam decider. Only 4 of them were known to be NO, as far as I know – G Hastings, S Hastings, Sole and Calder. What a bawbag I am!

  274. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr
    Thirded. Better we kick each other than prospective ex-NO voters, this is a very strange time, with a lot of people rethinking their views.

    Even rugby players perhaps 🙂

  275. Sandy says:

    So the French have made the move to acquire an embassy in Edinburgh. Purportedly, other countries are doing the same. Wonder if England is? Better keep an eye on this. Property prices in the Capital are, to say the least, somewhat expensive. If England were to do this, where would she find the money? Wouldn’t put it past the skeekid bas***ds to use Scottish taxpayers sources. Could, tho’, after finalising complete independence, throw them out as alien to Scottish principals & commandeer the building & put it to a more salient use.

  276. schrodingers cat says:

    big stushie

    not often I miss the chance to insult folks

  277. Sandy says:

    schrodingers cat.

    Ignore most of them. When it comes to swearing & calling insulting names, it’s just childish tantrums, throwing toys out of pram etc. Best to ignore them, like put them in a darkened room for a while “Ta think again”.
    Oh, forgot, they’re adults. Egotism, arrogance & selfishness comes to mind. Definitely not pub debating quality.
    Robert P excluded from above.

  278. Lochside says:

    Fionan…good points. I agree with much of what you say. I buy the ‘NATIONAL’ out of a sense of duty. I like the letters and the historical stuff, but like you, I am suspicious of its owners. I suggested it as a handout in direct competition to the ‘METRO’. iScot probably would be more attractive as a vehicle to get the message out for all the reasons you mentioned.

    Apologies for late response, but responding to personal insults from a couple of dobbers on here, took up more time than I ever would have wanted.

  279. Lochside says:

    Sandy: classic intellectual myopia….I , Rock and others criticise Peffers content….but getting called a variety of personal names such as ‘scrotes’, ‘wally’ etc.in return is ok as long as it comes from that that individual and his acolytes. I can take name calling and give it back. I regret having to defend myself in such a manner, but I won’t be insulted either face to face or by keyboard heroes. So just deal with it Sandy.

  280. Sandy says:

    Name calling & use of profanities are, in my book, a sign of weakness.
    Sometimes I am guilty of same but keep it under my breath.
    Arguments are like wars, there is no real winner. Let’s keep to debate. Let’s not act like Davidson, Fraser, Dugdale, et al.

  281. Malky says:

    I see this drawing M Fraser and all I can hear in my head is “Giggitty giggitty!”

    Can’t think why.

  282. DerekM says:

    Acolytes,cultist?????

    You do know you sound like a fucking yoon troll.

  283. Undeadshaun says:

    It looks like 77th brigade /mi5 spooks have been busy trying to sow discord here overnight and make people skip reading comments on WOS.

    That’s what they would love to achieve as WOS is perceived as a major threat.

  284. schrodingers cat says:

    things looking up, maybe i didnt miss it after all

  285. heedtracker says:

    Lochside,

    WoS is a pro indy blog and btl the same. There’s loads of anti Scottish independence btl, newspapers, twitter, Facebook you name it, where tough guys like you and Rock slam into anyone pro anything or anyone, just like you do, all with that tough guy thuggery to get you to shut up.

    There are number of ways to disagree tough guys, but is it not fair to assume that saying something you think is wrong or an error btl WoS, can be corrected but that it does not include the usual tough guy slagging.

    OK tough guy.

  286. schrodingers cat says:

    hear hear heed

    i’m fighting drunk, my vision’s shot, my balance gone and I may fall over at any minute

    so watch it!

  287. schrodingers cat says:

    alternatively

    we could discuss the impending council elections, how I was looking forward to relegating the cosla talking heads, uch favoured by bbc reporting scotland , into obscurity, but very concerned that we still dont even now who the snp candidates for our wards are or indeed how many candidates we will be standing?

  288. Breeks says:

    Kinda curious about the Sunday Times talking about the gaps in UK defences. I haven’t read it for the pay wall, but hearing a ship from 100 miles away is not news is it? Surely not to anyone watching Jonesy in the Hunt for Red October, or indeed any wartime propaganda movie when the subs mystery location is given away by some clot dropping a spanner.

    If I was worried about gaps in UK defence, I would worry about the UK’S forces abroad having no fast jet air cover apart from land based airfields or group support from other Nations. I might also worry about the lack of maritime patrol aircraft off the UK coast too.

    But surely the biggest gap apparent in the UK defence is the lack of a strategically balanced defence strategy of a nation living within its means, no rooking itself to keep up with the Joneses in the nuclear family, spending all its wealth on dud Trident missiles to secure the beleaguered and far away UK outpost on the UN Security Council.

    The Russians can hear us coming eh? Don’t worry. They know we’re pretty harmless in the greater scheme of things.

  289. DerekM says:

    @ cat

    They might be keeping their cards close to their chest,if they go releasing who`s who it will give the yoons a chance to go muck raking on the individuals,and we just know that is exactly what they will do.

  290. mike cassidy says:

    Meg Merrilees 10.41pm

    Herald pages no longer archivable in a readable way –

    so for others here’s a cut-and-paste of some of what Mike Dailly said about joining the SNP.

    “He said one key milestone in his decision was meeting both Kezia Dugdale and Nicola Sturgeon on the impact of Brexit on Scotland, adding: “I’d come to the conclusion we were now in a different world.”

    ….

    Mr Dailly said: “If I come to the conclusion that Scotland has the opportunity to do something different, to take a different path, then I’ve got to be working with those people working for that and that’s the SNP. It’s a broad church, much broader than the Labour Party has ever been, it has a wing with a string socialist ethos, social justice values and others with different views.

    People who know me know I’ve been torn about the best route forward for Scotland for some time, probably a year. People have been supportive of my decision, some in Labour have not been so kind, some have been.

    “Suggesting I’ve been offered something, that I would stand for the SNP or this was about personal gain, couldn’t be further from the truth. The UK political environment is very much in step with UKIP’s, we’ve a regressive approach to scapegoating people and fostering intolerance. I have to ask myself, is this what we want for Scotland?” …

    I presume his UKIP remark is the key.

  291. mike cassidy says:

    Looks like the refusal to pay the licence fee is having an effect on the BBC.

    https://twitter.com/grvlx001

  292. schrodingers cat says:

    @DerekM

    fair point DM, it is just very difficult getting unknowns elected in council wards, a lot of people still vote for the person rather than a party. You need time to get your face “kent” time, we now dont have

    the snp has had months to vet candidates, this process should have been finish months ago, it is not as if we didnt know when these elections were going to happen

  293. Capella at 1.10

    She was married to Bob Bird who was editor of the Scottish Sun. When Bob Bird and Andy Collier ran the Scottish Sun they produced the famous “Rise Now and Be A Nation Again” front page in support of the SNP and independence.

  294. DerekM says:

    @ cat

    I can understand their caution however like you i personally think it might be a mistake,they should just release the candidates and get to the PR work and let us wingers deal with the yoons.

    I suspect they have already done the vetting of the candidates,as a party they are quite proficient at these things.

  295. Robert Peffers says:

    @Croompenstein says: 4 February, 2017 at 11:08 pm:

    “Gove now tag teaming with Brillo against the FM..
    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/828010920983019521

    Why is no one on twitter telling these numpties that this PISA thing is utter pish?

    In the first place what it measures, and compares, is the current achievements of 15 year old pupils. That means they are reporting on pupils that entered the education system when they were 4 or 5 years old around a decade ago.

    It cannot thus give a good idea of the actual standards of pupils that have entered the system after that date. Secondly the PISA figures cannot take account of the changes made by the SG in the past decade which obviously will not show in PISA figures for another 10 years or so.

    I’m no expert and have not actually checked up when the Curriculum for Excellence was introduce but I know it was rolled out and some areas will thus have began it later than others. Also there will be council areas, not under SNP control, who did not begin the CfE when it first came into use.

    Perhaps I’m wrong but it seems to me that the PISA figures being used to accuse the SG of not running Scottish education properly will not give a true picture until the 15 year old pupils measured by PISA have studied their whole education under the current Scottish system.

  296. schrodingers cat says:

    @DerekM
    you’re probably right and since there isnt anything we can do about it now it is probably not worth complaining about it

    however, i dont believe the idea that the snp are a slick and professional campaigning outfit that planned this situation. No conspiracy theory required when good old fashioned incompetence is the most likely explanation

  297. Conan the Librarian says:

    The latest Cadbury’s advert proudly boasts of “British” milk in it’s chocolate, to cover the fact that it’s made in Poland.

    Now that’s Flake news.

  298. Ken500 says:

    Does A. Neil pay all his taxes on his vast public money salary. Or as a company for tax. Overpaid and over rated. When will his remuneration be published.. Taxpayers money spent on a £3.4Million Trump tower apartment for telling lies for the BBC. The Tory Thatcher supporter. Making broadcasting report running down Scotland’s higher unemployment figures, poverty etc. When Thatcher was illegally and secretly taking the equivalent of £Billions out of Scotland. Spending it on London S/E and Tilbury Docks and Canary Wharf. Fraudulent ‘loads of money ‘ bankers. They fund the Tory Party on fraudulent banking practices. Deregulating and devaluing the world Banking system. With offshore account and tax havens to evade tax. Established by Thatcher.

    Essential services are at breaking point in the rest of the UK, because taxes have been lowered and Westminster are increasing the debt. They do not break even but increase the debt.

    How much do Scottish taxpayers have to pay for illegal wars, obsolete squint Trident. £200Billion+ Banking fraud and tax evasion £3Billion. Multinationals etc whisky companies based in London making vast profits pay no (corp) tax in Scotland. Use Scottish resources, the barley and water but pay no tax. Scotland has to pay on average £4Billion on debts borrowed and spent in the rest of the UK. £1Billion on Trident. Scotland could save £1Billion on NHS/social costs with a tax on ‘loss leading drink’. Minimum pricing has taken over four years to be introduced because of Uniojist opposition. Blair’s 24 hours drinking culture.

    The Oil sector was being taxed st 60% to 80% by Osbourne when the price has fallen 75%. Losing £Billions and thousands of jobs in Scotland. Scotland could have had near full employment. Bringing. In more tax revenues. Less Oil & Gas having to be imported into the UK putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Lower living standards and putting the cost of living up. Brexit another economic disaster which will not stop illegal migration figures in Europe or the UK. Displaced people will come in any case. Trade and give aid do not invade is the only way to stem the figures. Help people to stay in their own countries. This is what the EU was designed to do. Quite successfully. The major wealthier countries help the poorer ones to suceed and everyone benefits, with equal fair trade and free movement. With policies that bring countries up to a higher standards. Pressure can be bought to bear to stop conflict.

    Scotland raises £54Billion in tax (without Oil revenues) The rest of the UK raises £461Billion. Divide by 11 (pop) 11/12. Scotland 1/12. the rest of the UK raises £42Billion pro rata. Borrows and spend on average £100Billion more. Scotland has to make loan repayments on the debt. On abpverage £4Billion. Cut from Scotland’s £54Billion. Scotland’s Block Grant has be cut year on year by the Westminster Tories etc. It is Westminster Tories not voted for in Scotland, who are systematically ruining the Scottish economy. Farmers were denied their increased EU Grants. Scotland as part of the UK receives the lowest CAP payments in the EU. Mad cow disease etc affected beef products exports. Banned for years. Longer by Russia till 2006.

    The US grows soyabeet to feed cattle. They could process the soya and cut out the middleman. The feed is healthier but they used more pesticides and additives. Inject the cattle with grow hormones etc which are banned in the EU. The EU bans pesticides but one of the biggest ones remain. ‘Grow/round up’? It is supposed to be phased out within two years. People can chose less but more organic. Cut out waste. Prices are going up. The Mediterranean diet is considered to be healthier. More vegetables and fish. Less intensive farming methods. Japan has a heathy diet. Vegetables and fish. They live the longest in the world. Finland has the best diet. Fish and vegetables.

    The Finnish Gov took steps to enforce changes in diet. They had the biggest heart attacks rates in the world but now have one of the best healthcare record. Although some of the biggest suicide rates. No sun for long periods of the year? Depression? Genetic. Or an inbred population. No migrants? One of the most equal countries. All with Gov regulation and intervention. Taking measures to improve society with higher tax rates but not paying for illegal wars, redundant weaponry, banking fraud without compensation and tax evasion. Making for a better more equal cohesive society.

    If Scotland doesn’t vote YES soon. Scotland will be taken out of the EU. Another disaster for the Scottish economy, shared Defence costs. The nearest, largest single markets. Workers needed in the Scottish economy, in fishing, farming, Oil industry, care sector. Exports going to to the EU and Grants etc coming in.

    The fishing industry should have been using bigger nets years ago. Stopped throw backs. Norway was scornful of these methods years ago. The EU and the SNP have negotiated a bigger net scheme which means quotas are being increased. The spokesperson is a Tory. Workers would rather be employed in other industry with better conditions and less hard and dangerous.

    The fishing processing industry in the NE is dependent on migrant labour and foreign crew members. EU markets for better prices. Improving conditions in the industry would bring advantageous changes. Now there are claims ‘healthy’ alternative fish have digested plastic. Plastic money has been introduced. To save paper, waste and cut costs. Salmon fish farms on the West coast employs more people and increases exports. £Billion are gained from exporting quality foodstuffs and beverages.

    The US/UK have caused the worse migration crisis since the 11WW. Illegally bombing the Middle East to bits and taking their resources since 1928. Denying the people the vote. Reneged on their promises. The Balfour Agreement -Lloyd George. 1917. Lloyd George also illegally partitioned Ireland which has no borders between North & South.

    Ireland also has better roads than Scotland and receives EU Grants and revenues to help build them. A £2Billion toll, tunnel. 2Euros into the centre of Dublin. The trams 1euro journey. Well subscribed. Dublin has a one way system of travel around the river but the worse travel chaos in the world at peak times. Hold ups throughout the City. Many people love Dublin town and the journey’s up the coast. Beautiful Ireland. The troubles were another Westminster illegitimate problem. Costing unecessary death and £Billions of unwanted strife, Masonic Unionists. An unfair, non equal, exclusive association. Restricted membership based on prejudice and secretive inequality.

    In the rest of the UK (non progressive) council tax is going up. Up to 10% to cover inadequate social care. A, Neil doesn’t criticise that, but supports the corrupt crooked Union and the Scottish economy being ruined by Westminster Tory decisions for whom the majority in Scotland did not vote. Charlatan devious liars milking the public purse on nonsensical, devious projects of little value. To line Tories and their associates pockets. In Commission, consultancy fees and expenses.

    There are problems with the NHS. Drugs which are charged £5 over the counter but are charged £20 on prescription by the drug companies? Operation costs £Millions of which the terminally patients have little chance of survival. Patients should be asked if they want to spend their last weeks under sedation or under medication ticking off their bucket list. Enjoying being with their friends/family and loved ones. The Doctors association were asked (ten years? ago). Did they want more money or more Doctors. They chose more money. Now their is a shortfall of Doctors. The medical profession were given £2Billion to provide out of hours care. GDoctors etc which is a good service but has stresses at peak times. The GP Doctors are off from 24th December till 4th Jan. A long time for an essential service with no emergency cover. Then surgeries returning with a higher case load to catch up with the backlog. Everyone needs a holiday but the Doctors get time off throughout the year. They do work miracles saving people’s sight and lives etc. Their appreciation is deserved. When Scotland is Independent more could be spent on health (pro rata) and less on illegal wars and redundant weaponry.

  299. DerekM says:

    lol they are slicker than the Labour party ever was,it used to be a total shambles and still is.

    But i hear you,the old human incompetence usually does play its part somewhere lets hope this is not the time.

  300. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 4 February, 2017 at 11:39 pm:

    Robert P. take your own advice nad scroll past.

    That’s typical, heedtracker, Why would I scroll past?
    I’m not the one complaining about other people posting on WoS. BTW: I did post and apologise for typing errors as I’m having a problem attempting typing with bandaged fingers.

    The advice to scroll on past is aimed at those who are complaining about other people’s posts on WoS.

    I’m not – I have always maintain that everyone has the right to their opinions – even if I do not agree with them.

    “Self awareness isn’t one of your strong points, is it. I never understand guys like you that take their egos online. Its really not all about you.”

    I never claim it is all about me nor is it all about my opinions. Where did you get that idea?

    I’m not the one who gets upset when others disagree with me. In fact I have encouraged it. Wings is an open forum. It would wither and die if it was a wee cosy club with everyone frightened to disagree with anyone else.

    Which is why it would be a very bad thing to block even obvious trolls. Perhaps you think that I, or indeed anyone else, should just crawl away and leave WoS to you and the others who all agree with each other but Wings doesn’t work like that.

  301. galamcennalath says:

    mike cassidy says:

    I presume his UKIP remark is the key.

    Indeed. UKIP’s hard right agenda is completely at odds with most Scots.

    The same can’t be said for the South British. In the GE more than half voted for hard/ultra right parties.

    Even Labour’s behaviour is decoming questionable. We used to joke about the Unionist parties all being different flavoured/coloured Tories. I think we can now label the Tories as UKIP Classic, UKIP itself as UKIP Max. Labour seem well on their way to becoming UKIP Lite.

  302. naina tal says:

    Derek M : Might also be something to do with his remark about meeting Kezia and Nicola? That would’ve done it for me, right there!

  303. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    5 February, 2017 at 10:23 am
    @heedtracker says: 4 February, 2017 at 11:39 pm:

    Robert P. take your own advice nad scroll past.

    I didn’t say that Robert! I say, lets be nice. There are loads of btl sites online, BBC to twitter, where you can get a Rock or Lochside style monstering, for saying anything at all, pro YES.

    So on WoS btl, why not just say, “I disagree with this and here’s why” or “that is incorrect, here’s why.”

    Being nice is cool. Being a tough guy, online is not cool:D

  304. Dr Jim says:

    Horror upon horrors this morning listening to a discussion on GM food and products which because of Theresa Mays Brexit romance with Trump means total deregulation of this stuff flooding the UK

    Those clever folk for GM say it’s all good and those against obviously the opposite
    They tell us GM will be more resistant to pests bugs and the like but I know about pests bugs and the like and there’s nothing on this planet can control pests and insects because all you do is create stronger bugs in the long run and any 12 year old child knows that

    Cockroaches can survive on nuclear waste for god sake so how dare these scientists tell us it’s safe when we know they told them this stuff in India and now that country is having a nightmare with this shit

    I have to admit I had completely neglected to think of this horror happening to us but Brexit has just made it to the top of the Tory money making wish list
    Jacob Reece Mogg will be orgasming over the very idea of new and improved modified garbage his family can invest in to kill the rest of us

    I’m not a Greenie but this surely is one for the wee comrade to be shouting his head off about eh?
    So let’s hear it Patrick start shouting about America flooding our country with genetically modified superbugs that we’ll either be eating or wearing without our consent

    I’m not being funny but that really scared me this morning

  305. Clootie says:

    @Conan the Librarian 10:11am

    …liked it, 🙂

  306. heedtracker says:

    Now that’s Flake news.

    Pretty good Conan, pretty good.

  307. DerekM says:

    @ Dr Jim

    Yes Jim it is very scary watch this.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTi0_ZQtPTY

  308. Robert Peffers says:

    @ben madigan says: 5 February, 2017 at 12:08 am:

    ” … The Irish say The “british isles” is an old-fashioned term with political overtones, coined back in the day when England (Britannia) ruled this north atlantic archipelago. And they won’t have it!

    Laughable, Ben. Now I may be wrong but when the terms, “Britain”, and, “British Isles”, was first used there wasn’t even a country called, “England”. and, “Britannia”, is defined by dictionaries thus :-

    “Britannia. / noun. a female warrior carrying a trident and wearing a helmet, personifying Great Britain or the British Empire. … (in the ancient Roman Empire) the S part of Great Britain”

    The Ancient Roman Empire occupied only the south of Britain from 43BC to around 410AD.

    The Anglo-Saxons who gave their names to England, (Angleland), only arrive in Britain after the Romans left.

    In any case the terms Britain, British and British Isles were mentioned and used even earlier than the Romans by the Ancient Greeks.

  309. Bob MACK says:

    @Robert Peffers,

    Heed tracker gave you very good advice. There is a song by Simon and Garfunkel called The Boxer, which has the line
    “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest”

    You are in a debate with such people. Ignore.

  310. Dr Jim says:

    @DerekM

    Monsanto nightmare, this stuff is worse than Stephen King
    If somebody stuck this on the front page of a newspaper we’d be Independent the next day

    It’s just a horror story of epic proportions and it’s coming to a country near us NOW!

  311. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 5 February, 2017 at 12:15 am

    “Where will the English buy in Edinburgh?”

    They won’t buy in Edinburgh, heedtracker. Their SC has just ruled that they already own all of Scotland including all of Edinburgh and the Holyrood Parliament. Perhaps they will just take away Scotland’s parliament and move their Governor General and his/her staff in there.

  312. Breeks says:

    Dr Jim says:
    5 February, 2017 at 10:37 am
    Horror upon horrors this morning listening to a discussion on GM food and products which because of Theresa Mays Brexit romance with Trump means total deregulation of this stuff flooding the UK….”

    I’ve been saying that for weeks Dr Jim. Trumps marvellous Trade Deal for Europe was the TTIP Trade Deal which Europe didn’t want; deregulation all over the spectrum, from Banking to food, and throwing away all the protection on foods, GM crops, and steroid pumped meats.

    It was also being pushed by the big American Healthcare and Insurance companies who want to get their fangs into Europe’s healthcare industry. It is no accident that whathisface Hunt is holding talks about England’s NHS.

    I’ve been trying to caution those who are advocating a frictionless border that they should tone down their rhetoric. If England does embrace a TTIP type Trade Deal with the US, we might very well insist upon a very hard Border so Scottish produce is not blighted by contamination of GM or chemically saturated produce.

  313. heedtracker says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    5 February, 2017 at 11:04 am
    @heedtracker says: 5 February, 2017 at 12:15 am

    “Where will the English buy in Edinburgh?”

    Why is the thought of going to the English embassy in Embro, for a visa to visit Farageland so appealing:D

  314. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 5 February, 2017 at 12:24 am:

    “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glencairn_House
    Christ British Ambassadors live like billionaires”

    If they are anything like the rest of the Westminster Establishment then they probably were already billionaires before getting their Ambassadorial appointments.

    When did the United Kingdom last have a PM that was not, or did not soon become very, very rich?

    What is more, when did they have one that did not hide most of their cash in tax evading charitable trusts?

  315. DerekM says:

    Yep that is what the UK government really mean when they talk about GM crops.

    Would be interesting to find out how many politicians and lords have connections with these monsters.

  316. Breeks says:

    Meant to add… sloppy UK food standards brought use BSE mad cow disease, and horse meat in supermarket beef burgers. You think post Independence the same muck sold in a supermarket one side of the border won’t find its way into a lorry heading to the other side of the border with some minimum wage flunky changing flag stickers?

    Theresa May and rUK are up the proverbial shit creek without the US Trade Deal, which puts Donald Trump and his Trade negotiators in a commanding position to dictate terms to Theresa May and her negotiating all-stars.

    Next time you some Unionist bumping their gums about rebuilding Hadrians wall, …get it in writing.

  317. Bill McLean says:

    This is Teresa May’s plan for UK future. Sell off the NHS to US pharmaceutical companies, import GM technology, and buy arms from US. Shocking future for all. We must leave this redundant, ridiculous, backward union!

  318. louis.b.argyll says:

    Brexit hasn’t started yet.

    GM foods/deregulation will cost OUR Scottish food brands billions in lost European markets.

    Same with fisheries/aquaculture, remove European standards and lose ‘safe fresh’ product’s status.

    From steaks to scallops, Scottish produce will be off the menu. Tainted as being suspect, like US food.

    OUR supply chains will be owned by corporations (eg Diageo) pretending ‘to be’ traditional communities. But now, consumers are savvy, politically correct, especially France and Spain.

  319. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Robert puffers 10.52

    Nonsense. So called british isles is a very recent invention of colonial origin

    Britain and Ireland were always referred to separately. I never comment on your historical stuff normally, but catch yourself on with this one

    If you fancy yourself as a bit of a historian, then read the history of my electoral area http://www.ardglass.eu/local-heritage/history/ (this is short timeline version – i have a long one with detailed maps)

    The British Isles exists only in the minds of the BBC and those who control them or are controlled by them

  320. Fred says:

    @ Cadogan, thanks for the Irish history lesson, interesting stuff!



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