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Wings Over Scotland


The silent trumpet

Posted on February 07, 2017 by

We weren’t sure we’d woken up properly when we read this morning’s Times.

trumpet

“Much-trumpeted”? That’s, um, not quite how we remember things.

Because last year, the entire media was telling us the “deal” was a secret.

sekritdeel

The non-binding memorandum the Scottish Government signed in 2015 with two Chinese companies, agreeing to maybe sort of think about some investments at some point in the future, has been used by the opposition and press to prove just about everything bad short of blaming Nicola Sturgeon for faking the moon landings.

At first it proved they were sinister and evil for working in total secrecy (even though a press release had been issued and the story had been reported in The Scotsman) with a company that was subject to some unproven accusations of corruption, in a country where pretty much all business is conducted via bribery.

Then it proved they were giving unspecified favours to an SNP donor who actually had no involvement in anything and who hasn’t donated money to the party in years.

Then it proved that they’d recklessly allowed a “deal” which had never existed at all to collapse and cost Scotland £10bn which had never been on the table, and which all the Unionist parties had furiously decried as being dirty money just months earlier.

davidsonchina

(And which it in fact transpired the opposition and media’s hysterical over-reaction may have been directly responsible for losing.)

And now it proves that they “trumpeted” a “deal” that didn’t make ENOUGH money out of this allegedly corrupt company that they shouldn’t have been dealing with at all, and which they’d tried to keep secret, presumably using the Great Trumpet Of Secrecy.

We’re excited to find out what the next developments will be. We’re pretty sure that at some point before spring the Times will claim that the deal was on the front page of the SNP’s 2015 election manifesto and its collapse means that all their MPs should be put in jail for causing a crisis in international relations that might precipitate World War 3. We honestly can’t rule anything out any more.

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121 to “The silent trumpet”

  1. Greannach says:

    Shoudl these papers be writing their articles in Nuspeak?

  2. handclapping says:

    It doesn’t matter if its false, be first

  3. Bruce L says:

    Beggars belief. If the subject matter wasn’t so stultifyingly dull, this would be a perfect case study of the pigheaded media’s intransigence when it comes to the SNP.

  4. handclapping says:

    Bugger!

  5. HandandShrimp says:

    LOL Sanderson either has the memory of a goldfish or is simply a compulsive liar. I can still recall Rennie moaning about the SNP not telling him about the MOU. The only people playing with their trumpets were journalists like Sanderson.

    Obviously a scraping the barrel SNPbad day

  6. heedtracker says:

    Christ what idiots they are. Mind when the Times used to thunder.

  7. Dan Huil says:

    Britnat hypocrisy continues to trumpet its own turgid turds. In desperation britnats disappear up their own backsides.

  8. Mac says:

    Must admit the satirical way you write about the mainstream medias utter ineptitude is honestly brilliant!!!

    The way a single individual, (with occasion guest stars) is able to dissect and highlight the weaknesses in the political opposition in Scotland yet the entire print and television media with their funding mechanisms seems incapable – Sadly should show to the average man/woman that currently the media is doing a disservice to the people of Scotland!

  9. Macart says:

    Rewriting history again are they?

    When will folk learn? When following how our media’s editorial rule is applied it’s perfectly simple. Where the Scottish government are concerned they are damned if they did and damned if they didn’t.

    All clear?

  10. bobajock says:

    Sigh. Its not that its annoying, its that these cretins will still be hanging on after independence.

  11. Bugger (le Panda) says:

    handclapping says:
    7 February, 2017 at 10:30 am
    Bugger!

    Nothing to do with me, this time

  12. Dave Hansell says:

    You mean to tell us that the Country with whom the Westminster Government has signed a multi billion pound deal with to provide a nuclear power station of untested design in Somerset and which will guarantee decades of consumer electricity prices three times the market rate is one where “pretty much all business is conducted via bribary”?

    Say it ain’t so.

  13. Fraser Reid says:

    What are all these papers etc. going to do after Independance ?

  14. dakk says:

    I see that the Sunday Times has also been bullying adertisers away from Russia Today news channel.

    Looks like UK gov and Murdochs goons are in propaganda overdrive.

  15. Bob MACK says:

    You are damned if you do, and damned if you don’t. There is in fact nothing that the

    Unionist media or politicians would accept. For them success is failure and failure is success.

    Baby boxes, bedroom subsidy, anti austerity, new infrastructure, in any other society would be seen as positive items. Not here though. Not whilst it is the SNP who deliver these things.

    We live in a time of metal irrationality, spurred on by a disenfranchised media and body of politicians who have adopted a scorched earth policy .

    If we cannot have it, then we will destroy it. This is not politics. This is petulance and
    resentment.

    Scottish? my arse in parsley.

  16. Socrates MacSporran says:

    As a sports writer, I have covered numerous cases of football players and managers being dragged over the coals by the SFA for bringing the game into disrepute by their conduct, or from thinngs they have said or written post-match.

    Should the Scottish Parliament not bring in such legislation which would see lying we nyaffs like Ruth “Harrison” pulled up every time they tweet pish, or misrepresent or simply make up “alternative facts”.

    First offence, censure; second offence, suspension; third offence – sine die suspension.

    I reckon we could get rid of Ruth the Mooth, Grand Master Murdo and Jackie Baillie in a very short space of time, Wee Wullie might take a wee bit longer.

    MInd you, without you, we might have to wait a wee bit longer for Independence – they are our best recruiters after all.

  17. Ken500 says:

    The Westminster Unionists have made extortions deals with the Chinese for for HS2 and Hinkley Point. Both disaterscwaiting to happen of no value wasting £Billions of taxpayers money.

    The Westminster/Unionists are illegally wasting £Billions of Scottish taxpayers money. Taxing the Oil sector at 60% 80% when prices had fallen 75%. Ruining industry in Scotland and importing more Oil & Gas putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. The Tories have increased the debt and illegally sanctioned people. A public disgrace.

    The Tory/Unionists are wasting £500Billion of taxpayers money. £50Bilion of Scottish taxpayers money.

    The Polls are used to manipulate the result. They are badly analysed. They should be denied public money not receive it when the results are so dubious. They break regulation and are not sanctioned for the criminality.

  18. shug says:

    It makes me smile that Trump calls out alternative fact and they throw stones at him while they do exactly yhe same

    I don’t like the guy but you have to hand it to him – he is using their approach and chucking it back at them.

  19. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fraser Reid says: 7 February, 2017 at 10:49 am
    ” … What are all these papers etc. going to do after Independence.”

    Exactly the same thing as they do now. Tell lies, distort facts, sell advertising space and be very handy for lining the bottom of budgie, canary, parrot cages and for house training puppies.

    They ceased to be useful as arse paper many years ago when the printers ink began to transfer itself from the paper to the arses.

  20. msean says:

    Wonder if not having future free access to the EU was also a factor in no investments being made so far. The EU separatists may have cost jobs.

  21. Ken500 says:

    The terraces are empty. The officials let paedophiles run the club. The majority of the Clubs are in massive debt. Tax evading allowed by unionist politicians abusing public money.

    The criminal tax evading Non Dom Murdoch should be in prison. Thatcher illegally gave Murdoch control of the Press to manipulate the ‘News’. Ilegal practices. Hacking and bribing public officials. A criminal act for US citizens anywhere in the world.

  22. Dal Riata says:

    “GlaxoSmithKline plc (GSK) is a British pharmaceutical company headquartered in Brentford, London.”

    “In 2013, Chinese authorities announced that, since 2007, GlaxoSmithKline(GSK) had funnelled HK$3.8 billion in kickbacks to GSK managers, doctors, hospitals and others who prescribed their drugs, using over 700 travel agencies and consulting firms.

    Chinese authorities arrested four GSK executives as part of a four-month investigation into claims that doctors were bribed with cash and sexual favours.

    In 2014 a Chinese court found the company guilty of bribery and imposed a fine of $490 million. Mark Reilly, the British head of GSK’s Chinese operations, received a three-year suspended prison sentence after a one-day trial held in secret. Reilly was reportedly deported from China and dismissed by the company.”

  23. orri says:

    By treating the SNP MPs the way they do Westminster are showing their utter contempt not only for them, not only for the people that elected them but also for the people that might do so in the future. We aren’t even talking about martyrdom here. Bullying perhaps but nothing physical. Advising out representatives to walk because they aren’t being listened to is premature. Wait until the general public in Scotland get the full measure of the attempt to ignore, demean and outright humiliate our representatives. If our MPs can’t take a “beating” when others in other nations have suffered far worse actual physical harm then they aren’t what we elected them to be.

  24. Robert Peffers says:

    It’s Fluffy Question time now at Westminster.

    I am having a gentle smile at myself.

    I always closely followed politics but I never thought I’d see the day when it was more entertaining to watch parliament’s doings than look for entertainment on TV’s and radio stations.

    I find modern comedians utterly boring but can laugh at the efforts of the likes of Fluffy at being serious politicians.

  25. handclapping says:

    It doesn’t matter if its false, be first

    To expand: Journalism needs to find a new meme. Twitter, Facebook et al have robbed the paper news and even radio and TV news of the newness of their news. There is no longer a profit to be had from being “first”, only kudos from a clique of like-minded journalistic dinosaurs.

    Other examples of the dino tendency are the cult of the foul mouthed hard living racist sexist hard drinking man in the stained mac and pork pie hat can be seen in the Spanner collective and the prominence of Katy Hopkins.

    There will always be a place for echo chamber journalism, the Star, Express, however that instantly reduces the market. To succeed in the wider market you need to be trusted and to be trusted you do not want to be seen deealing in alt-facts however fast you get them and you must deal with the important issues.

    This piece is what is wrong with the MSM in spades; alt-facts, a matter of zilch importance and pandering to only at best 55% of the population up here. Of course, if the intention is to demonise the SNP in England so that it cannot be considered as a coalition partner or even as a co-operator then that is a different matter

    @B(tP) I always call on you in time of stress 😀 and you never fail

  26. DerekM says:

    Oh look at the shiny thing.

    Is it a bird,is it a plane no it`s some regurgitated SNP bad propaganda.

    Been down in your waste bins rummaging again yoons?

  27. Desimond says:

    Thought The Silent Trumpet would be for last post for SNP members getting such low speech time during Brexit Amendments.

    Is Ruthie away working on her book…its almost as if she is trying to keep a very low profile lately!

  28. Dal Riata says:

    “In December 2013, David Cameron flew 131 business leaders to China on a UK government trade mission. The delegation to China included representatives of companies that have been involved in bribery and fraud allegations connected to Chinese officials. Among them were Andrew Witty, chief executive of pharmaceuticals giant GSK, and Patrick Horgan, representing Rolls-Royce. The former company has now been convicted of large-scale bribery, and the latter still facing investigation. In fact, the GSK case was ongoing during the mission, and a Serious Fraud Office investigation into the Rolls-Royce allegations was launched just three weeks after Cameron returned from China. Also represented in the prime minister’s delegation to China was ICAP, the broker that was fined $87 million a couple of months before the trip for its role in the LIBOR rate-fixing scandal.”

    From Open Democracy UK

    (Sorry, should have said that the information (above) regarding corruption conducted by GlaxoSmithKline in China was from Wikipedia.)

  29. Stoker says:

    More Tall Tory Tales From The Times!
    __________

    Socrates MacSporran (10:57am):
    Legislation to publicly deal with ‘Political Liars’ is long overdue. However, i don’t agree with your lenient 3 strikes and you’re out approach.

    I’d vote for something along the lines of making politicians swear some sort of oath on their appointment to office which would contain the words to tell the truth and nothing but the truth. Followed by instant public humiliation and dismissal upon breaching that oath.

    I’d like to see some sort of similar legislation brought in to police our media. Proven cases of deliberate lies resulting in automatic closure of the offending source.

  30. Doug Daniel says:

    I’m sure something happened between 2015 and now that might have caused a Chinese company not to invest in the UK after all, but I can’t think what it is. Hmmmm.

  31. Skyeman says:

    This makes sense now : http://reut.rs/2kEzLSl

  32. Ken500 says:

    Mundell sitting smirking when the irrational ‘Speaker’? did not allow SNP members to speak. That will cost the Tories even more votes.

    Corbyn is a an absolute useless dishonest ignoramous. The majority in the UK want to stay in the EU The Tories could not make a worse mess. The unionist disgrace.

    Arron launders the funds Farague steals from the EU. Through offshore accounts. Arron offshores and illegally steals the EU money. Then it re-appears as ‘donations’. The illegal bagman.

    Bercow should not be clapped in Westminster. Illegally breaking his own rules. Total hypocrite.

  33. Dr Jim says:

    You can’t negotiate with people who’s end game and purpose is not to negotiate
    You can’t reason with people who have no intention of being reasonable
    When the boot of the bully stamps on your neck no amount of humanity survives
    Unionists have clearly demonstrated their intent to use any and all means to ensure Scotlands subjugation continues through their use of blatant lies, threats and the drowning of even freedom of speech

    The most important thing to happen yesterday was not John Bercows dislike of Donald Trump being made public it was the stifling and sickening display at Westminster, Englands parliament, for that was made abundantly clear to anyone with half a brain viewing the spectacle that unfolded and showing in full colour the contempt with which Scotland is held by the English parliament

    Scotlands media and opposition politicians are now shown to be lower forms of life in their subservience to the will of the Union that is the English parliament
    They don’t care what they say or do, or the consequences to follow as long as Scotland is kept leashed fast and tight within their control and that should tell anyone who ever doubted Scotlands right to self determination the fear England has of not controlling Scotland and the wealth many NO voters don’t realise we posses

    Unionists don’t want Scotland Independent for their good, not ours
    England is in a shocking state financially and in the throws of civil breakdown, the entire country is fracturing before our eyes yet they still trumpet Empire, Queen and America as their God, believe in that and all will be well, it wont

    Scotland didn’t sign up for this and we don’t want it but the English are determined we should go down with them even if we’re right, and that’s wrong

    You can’t co-operate with a people who refuse to co-operate

  34. IheartScotland says:

    Just trying to think of a ‘decent’ respectable journalist reporting on Scotland, umm….McWhirter, the late wonderful Ian Bell…’struggles’.
    The dead tree press deserve an undignified end, not because of the Internet and change, but because of their utter uselessness, unable to be objective and report and analyse ‘news’.
    The people they purport to serve (us) are only here for their manipulation at their ‘Masters’ request.

    se.(us)

  35. ukunionisnull+void says:

    I see the the press repeater who automated this bullsh1t story Sanderson used to work anti Scottish Government/SNP “stories” for that other yoon shitrag The Herald. He isnt fooling anyone.

  36. IheartScotland says:

    Apologies for typo at the end
    ….

  37. Ken500 says:

    Rolls Royce has been illegally using public money and UK Gov offices/officials. To illegally obtain contracts by giving bribes. They are having to pay £Millions in compensation.

  38. Andy Anderson says:

    I am convinced that a behind the scenes campaign by the UK government is getting their financial backers in the media to spread this fake news. Press control my a**e.

  39. I wonder does the Scotsman think the employment of Keith Howell will save its circulation disaster.
    And if you want a perfect example of the Scottish cringe read the Record’s letters today for a contribution by Hamish Leishman.

  40. galamcennalath says:

    msean says:

    Wonder if not having future free access to the EU was also a factor in no investments being made so far. The EU separatists may have cost jobs.

    Yes. Much investment from outside the EU has come precisely because the UK was inside the EU. Obviously, no one was going to do that after the EURef result, never mind waiting for actual Brexit.

    Similarly, investing in iScotland will often be driven by its access to the single market (one way or another).

  41. Frank Lynch says:

    Who needs Fake News when we have the British press?

  42. wull2 says:

    After A50 is triggered, Scotland’s MPs should walk out of UK Parliament at certain times to make a point, it will be covered by the media, even if it is not the UK media.

  43. galamcennalath says:

    Frank Lynch says:

    Who needs Fake News when we have the British press?

    Sometimes I feel the modern political concept of fake news was invented in Scotland.

    So many other things were, after all!

  44. mogabee says:

    Times being UK government mouthpiece, it seems!

  45. Typical of the unionists, they will distort everything to suit their own agenda in their attempt to undermine everything the Scottish government does as being naive, bad or incompetent.

    Of course it a different story when it comes to Westminster governments making trade deals with the Chinese to build a nuclear power station or invest in HS2 or selling smart bombs to the Saudies who then use them bomb hospitals, food warehouses in Yemen etc.

  46. dandy dons 1903 says:

    The Crimes of London would be a more apt name for this anti-Scottish rag!

  47. Proud Cybernat says:

    Fugit tempus.

    Ok, I’ll get me jaikit.

  48. Roger Hyam says:

    Are we forgetting Cameron shaking hands with this company in China? I’m sure I saw that somewhere.

  49. IheartScotland says:

    @ Dave McEwan Hill,
    Nothing will save the Scotsman, except when we do a fundraiser
    and the Rev becomes the Editor! 🙂

  50. Stoker says:

    Campaign Against Arms Trade
    http://archive.is/Z7uXF

  51. Effijy says:

    I never realised that George Orwell’s 1984 novel was based here in Scotland.

    Everything in the book is happening here and now.
    You are only allowed access to government truth, the new name for lies, Black is White when it suits them and 2 and 2 make what ever figure that they need it to make.

    In 1984, Winston Smith, is a member of the Outer Party, who works for the Ministry of Truth (or Minitrue in Newspeak), which is responsible for propaganda and historical revisionism. His job is to rewrite past newspaper articles, so that the historical record always supports the party line.

    Smith Commission spot on George!

  52. handclapping says:

    @mogabee

    Times being UK government mouthpiece, it seems!

    Judging by Murdoch’s access to No 10 this may well be true

  53. Meg merrilees says:

    Din’t we wonder if one of THeresa May’s negotiating points was that China should cancel all deals with Scotland if it wanted to deal with England? Could be!

    Desimond – i think (t)Ruthless is busy makin a flak jacket to protect her from Nicola on Thursday at FMQ’s.

    Fallon has announced that we are to have a submarine training school in the Clyde, they’re going to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in upgrading the Clyde waterfront to enable it to take the entire UK submarine fleet. So far they’ve announced £4 million of a £1.3 bn investment. – Do we believe them???

    https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-invests-in-new-submarine-training-school-on-the-clyde

    Now they are openly coming after our children. Read somewhere this morning that they want to introduce a new Army training programme in schools and they will trial it in a Scottish School ( Dunfermline?) Can’t find the article again – sorry.

    Time to get out.

  54. Meg merrilees says:

    Effijy 21.01pm

    How appropriate!

    The Tories were specially bussed back into the H of C late last night to vote against Scotland and the other nations.

    Where had they been?

    The Black and White Ball!

  55. ‘Critics have said that the SNP should be challenged.’
    What a mealy mouthed pile of ordure, Sanderson.
    Must do better.
    Who are ‘the critics’, and why isn’t this anonymous group ‘challenging’ the hateful hopeless subversive crappy SNP themselves?
    Is this the best they can do?
    England will not trade with Independent Scotland, the £15 billion black hole will crush the Scottish economy, 700,000 will leave and head South, Brother will kill brother, gangsters will sell bootleg Kendal Mint cake, dusky Arabs will flood into Embra and blow up the castle, aliens will invade, we won’t be allowed to use the pound, DWP will stop paying pensions to Old Folk Up Here, Nobody will lend us any money, the EU will send us to the back of the 10 year queue, we’ll be as poor as Greece, and Donald Trump will close his golf clubs, and, and, and, and, and, and, and.
    No more Beef Green Peppers and Black Bean Sauce and Fried Rice for me. I don’t want to be accused of propping up a totalitarian state that would close its borders, and threaten to eject Furriners for no good reason, after all.
    Do these hacks not realise that they come across as complete numpties when they churn out this sort of trash?

  56. Dr Ew says:

    I certainly wouldn’t rule out World War 3.

  57. Capella says:

    Who would believe a word Fallon says? I expect there already is submarine training at Faslane so an upgrade might be possible. However, the rest of the programme will be blackmail material to attack a future referendum. No doubt Labour and the Unions will be suckered in to help in their usual gormless way.

    Cynical? Moi?

  58. Robert Peffers says:

    @Doug Daniel says: 7 February, 2017 at 11:41 am:

    <iI’m sure something happened between 2015 and now that ."might have caused a Chinese company not to invest in the UK after all, but I can’t think what it is. Hmmmm."

    I know what you mean but how about the less obvious effects in that sort of effect?

    I just read a BBC Ceefax report :-

    Brexit Bill Prompts power plant concerns

    Plans to build a nuclear power plant on Anglesey will face big challenges if the UK leaves a European nuclear corporation institution due to Brexit, according to an expert.

    Prof. Dr Glyn O Phillips said leaving Euratom would make it difficult to get staff for projects like Wylfa Newydd. The UK will leave the body if the bill to trigger Article 50 is approved.

  59. Capella says:

    O/T – Tories trying to get rid of the Speaker, John Bercow, for his comments about a Trump address to the Commons. Pathetic.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-38889941

  60. heedtracker says:

    Just another day in UKOK hackdom, lies, fear and good old mischief making? Got to Hamner of the Scots Severin twitter thing, via Ken Farq o the Times.

    Severin Carrell Retweeted
    TimesEditorScotland ?@magnusllewellin 7h7 hours ago
    More
    EXCLUSIVE: A major report on poverty in Scotland was watered down after the author met Nicola Sturgeon.

    Kenny Farquharson Retweeted
    Paul Hutcheon ?@paulhutcheon Feb 5
    More
    How @thesnp Government could slash child poverty rates: use its powers on tax credits and child benefit

    All from tories currently howling with fury at tax hike of at most 3 quid a week on the richest.

    Who’d be a tory ligger?

  61. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    7 February, 2017 at 1:39 pm
    O/T – Tories trying to get rid of the Speaker, John Bercow, for his comments about a Trump address to the Commons. Pathetic.

    BBC too, full on BBC r4 tory news fury at it all, this lunchtime.

  62. Robert Peffers says:

    @IheartScotland says: 7 February, 2017 at 12:59 pm:

    “Nothing will save the Scotsman, except when we do a fundraiser and the Rev becomes the Editor!”

    Nah! If we were daft enough to do so The Rev Stu isn’t daft enough to take on such a task. He is astute enough to realise the first part of such an enterprise will be to start building up a readership. So, as whatever was left of the old Scotsman readership, are 100% anti SG/SNP/indy they won’t be buying the rag. The MSM and broadcasters are not going to spread the word we have a new pro-SG/SNP/Indy newspaper either.

    So, as the new Scotsman readership would just be most Wings readers, there is no point of going to the effort of staffing a newspaper and maintaining a printing press and the supplies required to print and distribute it.

    He might just as well reach the same existing readership he has already on-line on his WoS Blog.

  63. Desimond says:

    @Ken500 says:
    Mundell sitting smirking when the irrational ‘Speaker’? did not allow SNP members to speak. That will cost the Tories even more votes

    I would suggest that in fact this will actually win more votes for them.

    Scots Tories will be loving this show of force\slapping down so no losses there

    Scots angry at such treatment are already encamped in SNP or Greens.

    The Labour power-luvvies will see this and continue to slide ever more to deciding only way for them is to jump over to Tory worship. From Red to Blue isnt that far at all these days.

    All the while, Kez and Co cant see the world pass them by.

  64. heedtracker says:

    Another tory truth trumpet,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-38884215

    Ruth Davidson gives farmers migrant worker assurance
    By Kevin Keane
    BBC Scotland’s environment correspondent

  65. gordoz says:

    This journo muppet is a Gardham minime and has form.
    If he can smear SNP then that’s his reason for being.

    Worst kind of lazy imported factless driven hack possible and that’s the best that can be said of this individual track back and see.

    Martin, Roden, Gardham mcFadyen you know the sort.

  66. brewsed says:

    O/T – apologies.

    This could be your country but, as yet, is not. But which one is it? Hint – they are the happiest people.

    This thoroughly modern market economy features high-tech agriculture, up-to-date small-scale and corporate industry, extensive government welfare measures, comfortable living standards, a stable currency, and high dependence on foreign trade. This country is a net exporter of food and energy and enjoys a comfortable balance of payments surplus. Government objectives include streamlining the bureaucracy and further privatization of state assets. The government has been successful in meeting, and even exceeding, the economic convergence criteria for participating in the third phase (a common European currency) of the European Economic and Monetary Union (EMU), but this country has decided not to join 12 other EU members in the euro; even so, this country’s currency remains pegged to the euro. Growth in 2005 was sluggish, yet above the scanty 0.3% of 2003. Because of high GDP per capita, welfare benefits, a low Gini index, and political stability, the country’s people enjoy living standards topped by no other nation. A major long-term issue will be the sharp decline in the ratio of workers to retirees.

  67. Sinky says:

    On “fake news” many Labour and Tory MPs have altered their Wikipedia entries and I remember Labour MPs being told to remove any unflattering bits by their spin doctors.

    Also Google searches throw up many anti SNP entries, no doubt based on the volume of hysterical press coverage, while burying supportive articles.

  68. Bob MACK says:

    I have been reading the history of Scottish self determination this morning, and to be frank it has left me feeling very upbeat about the future.

    To think that 60 years ago independence would not even be considered as an option due to lack of support among the Scottish population. Yet, through the 30’s and the establishment of the SNP, we have come to today where support for another independence referendum is around 50%, ( even with time provisos).

    It is a continuous upward trend as Scots slowly find belief in themselves.

    One of the posters today alluded to the fact that their friends vote SNP but no to indy.
    Perhaps that is part of the process of gaining self belief and confidence in your ability.

    It may not come in my lifetime,but I am now confident it will come. I will do everything I can to see it, but it would be enough if I was one of the many who laid down the foundation stones upon which our eventual freedom is built.

    My grandchildren deserve no less than my best efforts.

  69. Robert Peffers says:

    I hadn’t realised WWII had actually ever ended. I remember the end of War in Europe when The Hitler lot surrendered. I remember the end of the War with Japan too but the UK has been at war somewhere in the World ever since.

    I even got sent to Korea for a wee spell and got recalled because my skills were better employed back at Rosyth Dockyard.

    So if the UK has been at war all the time – when did WWII end?

  70. li says:

    Ah, the ever popular and utterly anonymous ‘critics’ have said.

    For ‘critics’ read ‘a couple of blokes down the pub’.

  71. heedtracker says:

    I would suggest that in fact this will actually win more votes for them.”

    Would an undecided Scot watching Fluffie last night really go out and vote NO and or tory?

    The fact all of this nightmare has now been buried by the whole of the UKOK lie machine, is probably your best answer.

  72. Sinky says:

    John Swinney just ripped Edinburgh Southern Red Tory MSP Douglas Johnstone at Holyrood just now by telling him that everytime he speaks it is to run down Scottish education.

  73. Ken500 says:

    If Trump stops the illegal invasions he is doing the world a favour. The Military was stepped down as soon as it became apparent Trump was indictated as entering the White House. The war machine ground to a halt.

    Trump spoke against the illegal Iraqi invasion in 2003. Describing it as ‘stupid’ failure. Spoke out against the Banking crash 2008. Against the crooked bankers. More should have been put in jail. People lost £Billion. Trump lost €Millions. Could not complete the Menie Development because of the loses and lack of ibanking lending for investment projects. Trump has invested £Millions in Scotland and intends investing £Millions more. Making £Billions for tourism and Scottish business.

    The MSM and many career politicians are liars ruining the world economy taking the world to disaster. The out of touch elite. Obamacare is a disaster for many already hard pressed people to afford. Many States do not endorse. Reminiscent of the Poll tax. The US did not stop the illegal invasions and indiscriminate bombing as was promised. Killing and maiming millions of innocent people and causing the worst migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. Ruining the world economy.

  74. kailyard rules says:

    Meg @ 1:07 pm.

    There is a “Scottish” submarine museum being opened in the centre of Helensburgh. A former church is being remodelled to accommodate this propaganda. A church with a WMD message. A recycled church.

    “Father forgive them for they know not what they do”

    I believe they do know what they do.

  75. Sinky says:

    Scottish Parliament debate on Article 50 now on Parliament TV

  76. ronnie anderson says:

    Brexit debate started now

  77. galamcennalath says:

    Derek Bateman. A good read ….

    http://derekbateman.scot/2017/02/07/bateman-on-the-box/

    … I enjoy reading what he says and tend to agree.

  78. ronnie anderson says:

    http://www.scottishparliament.tv/ better add this in

  79. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says:7 February, 2017 at 1:39 pm:

    ” … Severin Carrell Retweeted
    TimesEditorScotland ?@magnusllewellin 7h7 hours ago
    More
    EXCLUSIVE: A major report on poverty in Scotland was watered down after the author met Nicola Sturgeon.”

    These idiots must think we Indy supporters are as thick as unionists. Whose fault is poverty in Scotland?

    It cannot be anyone else’s than the de facto parliament of England at Westminster. Until these recent fake tax raising powers granted to the SG by the de facto parliament of England at Westminster the Scottish Government’s entire source of funds was the Block Grant from Westminster and as Scotland’s books have been balanced every year then any shortage of funding is down to the de facto parliament of England.

    Now it is very clear that if the complained of poverty is to be alleviated then the poor people of Scotland have no cash to spare as most of what they have goes back down to Westminster due to indirect taxation and it is only those rich ones the SG is going to tax who have any money to give to the SG to alleviate poverty among Scotland’s poor.
    Ye canna get blood frae a stane.

  80. heedtracker says:

    These idiots must think we Indy supporters are as thick as unionists. Whose fault is poverty in Scotland?

    I know Robert. Is there anything more nauseating than watching planet toryboy weep over poverty?

  81. skintybroko says:

    Orri 11:23

    Ignoring our elected MP’s is deliberate so that they (the establishment) can say what a waste of time voting in SNP MP’s they have done nothing for you, better to vote Labour or Tory then you will be listened to, you voice will be heard in Westminster!

    The sooner we get independence and away from this corrupt union the better.

  82. ScotsRenewables says:

    Ruth Harrison chewing a wasp/falling asleep just now on ScotparlTV

  83. ScotsRenewables says:

    Who is the bespectacled gripper in the red tie?

  84. galamcennalath says:

    skintybroko says:

    Ignoring our elected MP’s is deliberate

    I think there is an unwritten rule at WM where no Bill or amendment from the SNP must ever be passed.

    Our people are are only allowed to talk (sometimes).

  85. galamcennalath says:

    Government to give MPs vote on final Brexit deal before it goes to European Parliament

    MPs will be given a decisive vote on the final Brexit deal, the Government has agreed in a major climbdown.

    So they can reject it? Then what?

    http://archive.is/n4fEO

  86. One_Scot says:

    First time I have really seen Ross Greer speak at length.

    To be fair to him and the Greens, he presents himself well, and does come across very level headed.

  87. Still Positive says:

    Good article on Newsnet.scot by Russell Bruce re Liam Fox and his connections to USA – scary. More ammo for indy campaign.

  88. Bob MACK says:

    @Galamcennalath,

    The concession is we either sign up to the EU deal as it is at the time on completion of the 2 yrs or we join the WTO. No provision to remain in the EU.

  89. liz says:

    @wull2 I agree with a symbolic walk out but not a complete withdrawal.

    As I said on the previous thread, too many folk with agenda wanting this to happen.

    I know there are genuine supporters who think it should happen but when you have Bella and CommonSp calling for this, it makes me suspicious.
    A lot on the ‘left’ like making gestures and causing disruption but in the end it achieves nothing.
    Folk using SF as an example, well how many are even aware they are not there

  90. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    galamcennalath @ 15:02, Bob MACK @ 15:27,

    Huh. In the event, do we think The Corbyn Omnishamblab Party will do anything other than vote with the Tories, abstain, have a sudden communal attack of migraine…?

  91. geeo says:

    Always makes me laugh when unionist rags and useless unionist politico’s say that the SNP need “held go account” by, well, them.

    Every politician is “held to account” every few years, by the electorate.

    And they do a pretty damn good job of seeing who is fit to govern and deciding on who ACTUALLY needs held in check at election time.

    In 2016, the Tories, labour and the lib dems were ALL “held to account” by the Scottish electorate.

    The electorate found the SNP more competent than labour the lib dems and the tories COMBINED.

    Says it all really.

  92. starlaw says:

    Don’t even consider walking out of Parliament unless you are sure you will never be back.
    I remember Donald and the Scots Labour MPs staging their grand walkabout at the Ravenscraig closure. They gave the other MPs a good laugh and achieved nothing.
    Had they marched clean out the door shouting ‘home rule’ they may well have saved the plant.

  93. galamcennalath says:

    liz says:

    … when you have Bella and CommonSp calling for this, it makes me suspicious. A lot on the ‘left’ like making gestures …

    The hard left know they can never win majority support for their ideology. For them being seen to fight a good fight, then lose honourable, is motivation enough. Gestures which achieve nothing is their way.

    I”m not saying they don’t want Indy, it’s just not always their priority. For most folks in the Yes broad church, Indy is the main goal and everything should directed towards achieving that.

    All our guys in WM can do is ask embarrassing questions and sometimes get to talk. Not a lot, but they must make the most of that. Not being there at all, to make some point, achieves nothing.

    Then again, at some point we will pull our MPs one day, we all hope. That doesn’t need to be Independence Day, it could be well before it. It might make sense to withdraw the day after a Yes vote, for instance. The interface between Scotland and rUK taking a different forum, like a joint Holyrood-Westminster transition committee.

  94. Bob MACK says:

    How stupid can Unionists get? The latest ploy is to impose a 60% majority on a future referendum.
    Certainly make it harder for YES.
    However, I can see their wee faces when NO does not reach 60% , and so the door is left open for another attempt.

  95. Bob MACK says:

    The next General Election will be interesting indeed. Although 17 million voted to leave the EU, around 16 million did not.

    I can imagine a lot of MP’S will either consolidate their seats ,or be punished for disobeying their constituents, I might try and work that out.

  96. Desimond says:

    @heedtracker
    The fact it isnt being covered in the media is nothing new, same old same old treatment by the media and establishment.

    I just dont picture the Dont Knows as caring concerned human beings who watch Westminster activity and get shocked to their core and sit there thinking “That isnt on…Im now ready to make up my mind!”.
    Sure there may be some like that but I think the majority of Dont Knows are basically people who havent worked out whats in it for themselves yet.

  97. orri says:

    If anyone thinks there’s anything to be gained by a mass resignation of SNP MPs then consider the effect of losing even a single constituency in an election played out on the premise of it being all about independence and with the control of the conduct even more outwith the reach of Holyrood and the SNP than the independence one. Even should the SNP support increase we’ll still have the myth of peak SNP being peddled for all it’s worth.

  98. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Bob MACK @ 16:15

    The latest ploy is to impose a 60% majority on a future referendum.

    Back to the future with Labour’s 1979 devoref ploy? Ha ha ha!

    We have all read that fairy story, the one where the wicked stepmother gives Snow White a poisoned apple to eat. We’re wiser than that now.

  99. Alastair says:

    What is it with MP’s
    Owen Smith today at 16.29 picking his nose and eating it.

  100. Meg merrilees says:

    SOME OBSERVATIONS ON THIS AFTERNOON’S DEBATE:

    Why is it that the women in the Scottish Conservative and Unionist party have mouths that turn down at the corners. They look really unhappy!
    (t)Ruthless’ is the classic case.

    Why all this kerfuffle about the absence of the FM when (t)Ruthless is also absent, and as was pointed out, the majority of the labour bench.

    Independence mentioned many times but I do not remember it being mentioned by any SNP MSP – was it? If so, hardly at all.

    This is a relatively civilised debating chamber compared to the atmosphere of a boxing match which prevails at WM, but most of the MSP’s here would sink without trace trying to argue their case in the wonderful WM that many of them seem to worship.

    Lib/Dems are sadly in a bubble. We want the Status Quo – it’s not on offer, Wullie!

  101. Ghillie says:

    The behaviour of Linsay Hoyle and his colleagues’ contempt for Scotland was beyond disgraceful.

    As expected.

    A part of me would love to see the SNP walk out enmass but what I DO expect to see is our chosen representatives doing exactly what is in SCOTLAND’S very best interests.

    The SNP know what they doing. Watch and be amazed = )

  102. geeo says:

    @Bob Mack.

    I am rather hoping the next GE is bugger all to do with us….!

  103. ScottishPsyche says:

    The SNP and Greens should refer to Lab and Tories as British Nationalists from now on in every reference. They should emphasise it pointedly and use it at every opportunity. If there is an objection they could then apologise and say British Nationalists and Unionists.Of course it is a bit childish but what the hell, the look on their faces would be worth it.

    As to whether the SNP should withdraw from Westminster I think Scottish Questions would be the place to make a point. The SNP Mps do too much valuable work elsewhere to fully disengage. I really appreciate their contributions in debates and committees. On the other hand SQ fulfils no real purpose and the absence of any SNP MPs would make an eloquent statement.

  104. Stoker says:

    WOS archive links now over on O/T.

  105. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    The HoC is like the Supreme Court all over again. It’s bad, but paradoxically that’s what makes it so good. The more our elected representatives and our legitimate interests are seen to be disrespected by the British Nationalists down south, the more likely it is that people here will realise that the game’s up, and independence is the only way forward.

    It must be tough, really tough, on our MPs who have to put up with everything that’s handed out to them in the House of Cr*p, but they are doing it for our sakes, and it’s counting where it really matters – here.

    Respect.

  106. wull2 says:

    If what happened last night again in WM, the leader of the MP’s representing the majority of the people of Scotland should stand up and say “If this house is not prepared to listen, never mind consider, their is no point of us even being in this debate” and then all leave.

  107. Breeks says:

    Before the SNP in Westminster finds itself once again in the position it was in last night, humiliated and belittled by the Westminster Parliament and on the verge of walking out, I appeal to Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond to please, first, secure a judicial review from Scotland’s Court of Session about the legitimacy of Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty.

    Without that legal decree, walking out of Westminster is a political stunt likely prompting a hurried and ill considered UDI which the media will spin as the SNP’s frustration UK democracy, and it all becomes a red rag to a bull for Unionist backlash.

    With that legal decree, recognised legitimacy of Scotland’s misappropriated sovereignty, it is not the Unionist’s nemesis, the despised SNP, who is declaring Scotland Independent, it is the sanctity of Scots Law which is delivering Scotland from a discredited and incompetent Act of Union. It is not a political wheeze, it is an act of long overdue good legal housekeeping. Let the Unionists focus their anger upon Scotland’s judiciary if focus anger they must, but the deed will be done, the wrong will be righted, and a new Scotland can at once appeal for International recognition based upon an article of undisputed legal principle.

    Without the potency of sovereignty behind it, Scottish democracy, whether in Holyrood or Westminster has no power. That is what Westminster believes, and wants us to believe too. But, lay proper and rightful claim to Scotland’s legitimate and formerly undisputed sovereignty, then you have created a situation whereby Scotland has its own voice, and is firmly in charge of her own destiny.

    It is arguable that the Judicial Review would in itself constitute an actual end of the Union, however as I have said before, be prudent and forego that inevitable technically in lieu of a temporary and transitional constitutional status. The frequently mooted “holding pen” status for a Scottish nation in waiting retaining its existing EU member status might equally apply to a Scottish nation in waiting properly and diligently exiting the United Kingdom.

    In essence, Scotland could seek to have a Judicial Review to legitimise our sovereignty, then use that edict not as the enactment of sovereignty itself, but use it essentially as our own de facto “Article 50 notice” for triggering the process of Scotland’s exit from the UK. And if Scotland is wise, that process must include an early plebiscite to ratify whatever constitutional status emerges, but a constitutional status consistent with inalienable sovereignty.

  108. ben madigan says:

    re SNP MPs withdrawing or resigning from Westminster

    For what it’s worth Irish MPs didn’t withdraw/resign from Westminster until there was a clear majority practically all over the island for Sinn fein candidates (1918 election). They then refused to take their seats in Westminster and promptly set up their own Dail (though many elected members were in prison) and proclaimed it as the parliament of the republic of ireland.

    I’m confident the time for Scottish MPs withdrawing/resigning will come but it’s not just yet

  109. yesindyref2 says:

    The SNP MPs should protest officially in whatever way possible about Hoyle, a vote of no confidence if possible (they’d lose but make the point and publicity), but it doesn’t seem to be easy. I found this, no idea if there are others:

    https://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201213/cmstords/614/body.htm

  110. woosie says:

    Early this morning I wanted an SNP walkout. If I’d been there, I fear I would have gone into Eric Joyce mode, which is why neither of us is a politician!

    Now, I think Eck and Nicola are playing the long game, and I trust them.

    Watching Sooty and Sweep’s pal Fluffy last night, I think the vacant smile was simply a default pose when Treesa Longsanks hasn’t got her hand up his shirt tail. Embarrassment.

    Gove looking like a baffled Stingray baddie. Embarrassment.

    Fabricant ( honest, that’s his name ) sitting there with a lump of loft insulation on his head and a straight face. Madness.

    These people would be laughed off any other industry on earth! Why are they allowed to rule us?

  111. Breeks says:

    It’s not that I don’t trust Nicola and Alex, far from it, but I just get a bad feeling about Holyrood.

    If Westminster opened it, Westminster can close it, so are we making a grave error of judgement to believe that Holyrood’s voice and actions are legally consistent with actual Scottish sovereignty or merely diluted UK sovereignty “leant” from Westminster? We take it as read it has Scottish credentials, albeit short of actual sovereignty, but making the wrong distinction could be very important and costly.

    The AXA Vs Lord Advocate says we’re good, but the recent SC verdict says Devolution is admin only, nothing remotely binding. Surely what is missing from the picture is constitutional chapter and verse on the matter from Scotland’s own Court of Session… No?

    Otherwise, I get this dreadful hunch that just when we are about to sign the papers on Independence, Lieutenant Columbo is going to walk in and ask awkward questions about the sovereignty thing, and pedantically pull the rug out from everybody.

  112. Legerwood says:

    Breeks @ 8.12 pm

    I think the recent Supreme Court judgement in the Miller case answers your question about Westminster closing Holyrood.

    “”149. In the Scotland Act 2016, the recognition of the Sewel Convention occurs

    alongside the provision in section 1 of that Act. That section, by inserting section 63A into the Scotland Act 1998, makes the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish government a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements, signifies the commitment of the UK Parliament and government to those devolved institutions, and declares that those institutions are not to be abolished except on the
    basis of a decision of the people of Scotland voting in a referendum. This context supports our view that the purpose of the legislative recognition of the convention was to entrench it as a convention. “”

  113. Chick McGregor says:

    Circular Chinese Whispers by the SMSM bewilderatti all accompanied by a thrumming backing mantra of ‘SNP Bad’.

    Repulsive yet strangely intoxicating like witnessing the self-flagellation of some strange and arcane priestly cult.

    Trump should book them for next year’s Super Bowl halftime act.

  114. Stoker says:

    Chick McGregor

    Have you got any experience with creating Newsletters Chick?

  115. Breeks says:

    Thanks for that Legerwood, but at the risk of being a pedant, it says Holyrood is a permanent part of the United Kingdom’s constitutional arrangements.

    Put that in the scenario where Nicola Sturgeon, FM in a U.K. devolved assembly, is seeking to enact Scottish sovereignty outside of Westminster’s devolved parameters. Does she technically have the appropriate authority to do so, and actually administer Scottish sovereignty as the de facto government of Scotland, or could Westminster conceivably impeach the First Minister for exceeding the authority invested in her formal capacity in Westminster’s devolved legislature?

    The immediate response is she has been directly elected by the sovereign people of Scotland, so yes she does carry some authority at least, but it is also clear that Westminster does not recognise any Scottish sovereignty that is a distinct entity which can be removed from U.K. Sovereignty. Thus, if Westminster did move to oppose Scotland’s self determination, they could make a plausible case for impeachment, and refuse to recognise the acts and deeds of the impeached FM.

    Isn’t it incumbent on the FM to prevent this happening by taking advice on the matter from a purely objective constitutional expert, and securing fair and unambiguous, but thoroughly rigorous clarification whether she indeed has the legitimate power to wield Scottish sovereignty independently from Westminster while still effectively “in the employ” so to speak of Westminster?

    In the spirit of the law, I think the FM is on solid ground, but in a desperate and pedantic interpretation of constitutional practices and precedents, we could see an emergent sovereign Scottish parliament compromised from the outset by legal challenges which may or may not be spurious, but which might nevertheless hinder due recognition of independent sovereignty and see us embroiled in months of legal wrangling?

    Don’t we need a judicial review from the Court of Session, just to be absolutely sure?

  116. Breeks says:

    To put my above comment in a very plausible context, suppose Westminster refused permission for Indyref2, and the FM decided to proceed with holding one regardless….

  117. ian m says:

    Nae need tae panic,
    Our MP’s knew exactly how this was going to play out
    This type of nonsense has been going on since they go there
    We can never win a vote in Westminster and we never will
    It looks bad on England it is the best we could hope for.

    Was it not the Smith commission that every single amendment proposed by the SNP was voted down

    Is there a big scoreboard somewhere to show us how many times we have been whitewashed?

  118. Chick McGregor says:

    @Stoker
    Yes. e.g. Inverclyde SNP E-newsletter.
    More in similar vein by way of many years of leaflet creation and most recently in the compilation of ‘Kirrie TV’ loops for our Yes shop in Kirriemuir during indyref1. Have also started and ran several pro indy forums and been involved in founding two or three indy supporting groups.

    But tempus fugit and as I approach the three score and ten, I find I lack a magic age defeating elixir like that of the truly phenomenal Mr Peffers.

  119. IheartScotland says:

    Anyone remember at the start of Indyref 1 the media obsessed about the many treaties and trade deals an IScotland would have to deal with, many over2-300 years old. It was total bullshit, but it ran for many weeks. Anyone seen the same about Brexit?
    British msm and the Bbc is complicit in lieing to us. They’ll do it again. We need to be nastier next time, point out every single fault of this disgraceful union.



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