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Wings Over Scotland


The pound-shop Ruth Davidson

Posted on February 26, 2017 by

Yesterday afternoon, Scottish Labour tweeted some comments from Kezia Dugdale’s keynote speech to the party conference that might be the most self-evidently idiotic thing ever said by a Scottish politician.

kdescape

Now, whether you support independence or not it’s a plain, measurable, empirical fact that it IS all of those things. Saying it’s not “an alternative”, in particular, is roughly on a par with asserting that the Earth doesn’t revolve around the Sun.

We were about to go on a rant about the jaw-dropping stupidity of the claim when it struck us that it might be a bit more interesting to see how the speech, and indeed the conference, had gone down with its intended audience – Scottish Labour delegates.

And as it happened, we had some data on that.

gleeson1

Liam Gleeson is a young party activist, who’s currently standing for the position of chair of Scottish Young Labour.

gleeson2

And last night he tweeted his impression of the state of the branch office. We thought you’d like to hear his comments straight from the conference floor in his own words, unedited by us. Over to you, Liam.

“Just back from #ScotLab17 and I honestly feel dejected by the whole experience. I’ll try and put some thoughts down. 

The vast majority of speakers were ex-officio, candidates, staff or representatives. Hardly any trade unionists or grassroots members. Those who did speak, particularly our candidates, didn’t represent the diversity or makeup of the labour movement.

Not a single motion was spoken against, and the debate seemed like it was done because it had to be rather than to actually generate policy. We are in a crisis, and during the shadow cabinet Q&A session, not one person asked a critical question. We have no self criticism.

The MSPs focused on a politics confined to Westminster, from what I saw only Richard Leonard talked about workplace politics. The intervention from Sadiq Khan was disastrous, but I think the views he expressed are held by many in our party.

We spent the entire conference defining ourselves against the SNP, there was little about what we were actually for. The leaders speech today totally struck the wrong note, we cannot keep talking about independence. It was more unionist than socialist. 

A pound shop Ruth Davidson position is not going to cut it.”

Sounds about right to us.

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  1. 26 02 17 09:56

    The pound-shop Ruth Davidson | speymouth

106 to “The pound-shop Ruth Davidson”

  1. thomaspotter says:

    It wasn’t a conference it was a wake for the dead Labour Party.

    R.I.P.

  2. Irma says:

    First thought is, poor kid, but why is he still there? Move on, find something better!

  3. Cloggins says:

    In one phrase, “we don’t know what it is about but we’re against it”

  4. Ken500 says:

    Mad hater politics. Labour killed and mained millions of foreigners in Illegal wars. They vote through every Tory austerity measure. They could have been the party of Remain. An opposition. They would rather cut off their nose to spite their face than be a credible opposition. The SNP care about people. The vulnerable are being sanctioned by Westminster. The Tories are killing the elderly off. Higher than average deaths because of social fund cuts. Westminster Unionists couldn’t make a bigger mess. Brexit. In Scotland there could be a better way.

  5. wee folding bike says:

    As ever Groucho did it best.

    youtu.be/xHash5takWU

  6. Bill McLean says:

    It would appear that Liam is an idealistic, decency driven, young man who wants to participate in real democracy…..
    I don’t write this sarcastically or meaning to offend … WHY IS HE A LABOUR SUPPORTER?

  7. Auld Rock says:

    Somebody who knows this lad an SNP application form for unlike a lot of his elders the lad has some sense.

    Auld Rock

  8. Giving Goose says:

    Fixated with Westminster and SNP baaad…that’s Scottish Labour in a nutshell.

    As for Liam; his energy would be better used elsewhere.

    It’s young people like him who are our future. He’s wasting his time with Labour because, as he has identified, they are a single issue strand of the London Establishment.

    Message for Liam – please use your energy and take your beliefs elsewhere, where they will be better appreciated.

  9. Lobby says:

    They are finished, nothing left but hate and bile. They stand for nothing. If you’re a unionist, you’ll go with the tories, if not, snp. Sooner the remainder of decent folk, like this kid realise….

  10. Auld Rock says:

    Correction/Addition – ……after lad insert, ‘send him’.
    My apologies

    Auld Rock

  11. Camz says:

    Labour finally got rid of all its ‘No’ men, and you see the results.

  12. chris kilby says:

    Poor guy. One Damascene conversion coming right up…?

    (One of many, I think, after that piss-poor show – bring oot yer deid!)

  13. frogesque says:

    Pound shop Ruth Davidson! Classic!

    Right up there with the Branch Office

  14. John Edgar says:

    Labour uk-wide and the uk-paparazzi scribblers are in denial. They just need to look at the branch decline to witness the future. Even the branch just blether about SNP baaad and the situation down south.
    After, Copeland, what will Jezza say? The UK media quote him saying he will fight on! He said that after he gave May a free run on Article 50.
    The ScotLab remnants are in denial with Kez and Jez. The panacea is their great reach out dahn sath on” federalism”, as yet ill defined and side steps the English question , the HoC and HoL. What becomes of them? With EVEL, nothing. Still the same old incorporated yoonion.

  15. chris kilby says:

    They never learn. They never, ever learn. A Pound Shop Ruth Davidson. From out of the mooth of babes. There’s Oor Kez’s political obituary right there.

  16. Mike says:

    “More Unionist than Socialist”

    I honestly cannot believe there are labour party members who believe Labour are still socialist. Where the fuck have they been since 1987?

    Did they miss the Trident renewal policy? The support for targeting the austerity program at Welfare and benefits? The continued promotion of “LIFE” peers to the house of Lords? The warmongering? The illegal arms deals? The cash for Honours cash for access cash for questions scandals? The call for prescription charges? For taxation increases on everybody? The wage freezes? Tuition fees?

    Is there anything anywhere more self deceitful or self delusional than a labour party Socialist?

  17. Smallaxe says:

    Liam Gleeson says:
    “It was more unionist than socialist.”

    Och Liam, Son, You should have looked at WOS.We would have telt ye awe that an’ saved ye the bother o’ listnin’ tae awe thone Kezia keech. Dae ye no think mibbie’s ye’ve jin’ed the wrang party?

    Efter indy ye cud stert up a real labour party again.Then ye micht gie us some competent opposition, hiv a wee think aboot it son eh!

    Peace Always

    Ps yer wee pals ur welcome n’awe. 🙂

  18. ronnie anderson says:

    Young Mr Gleeson will be more disheartened when Mr Corbyn takes to the podium today , to reconnect with the Workers ( that would be the Unemployed Low Waged workers ).

    They who vote with Tories are Tories.

    The same people who he say’s have been ignored for decades ( things can only get Redder for the labour party ).

  19. scottieDog says:

    Kahn’s claptrap isn’t about racism, it’s about protecting the wealth of london.
    The uk economy is about the London economy which is based on finacial bubbles, be they housing bubbles or stock market bubbles.
    There are trillions of IOU’s out there that are a claim on real wealth but the real physical wealth lies in Scotland and the uk must keep it.

  20. Robert Louis says:

    This is the problem. We now have a desperately failing Labour party in Scotland, actively talking about council coalition with TORIES!!!! just to make sure the SNP cannot control councils. WTF!! What are you snorting Kezia??

    Do these idiots running Labour have ANY notion of how that sounds to people like me, who used to vote Labour? Someone who is left leaning in their politics?

    It is pathetic. Really, really pathetic, on every level, no matter how you look at it.

    Labour can either literally grasp the metaphorical thistle, and realise the politics of Scotland have changed, and that their CORE demographic now support independence and staying in the EU, or they can become irrelevant forever.

    Of course no such change will happen, since the people in the Labour Scottish branch office, are subservient fools, who do EXACTLY what their ill-informed (such as Khan) London masters tell them. This is the folly of Labour in Scotland. Not one of them has it in them, to go to London bang the desk, and make a stand for Scotland.

    When the idea of independence started growing in popularity in Scotland, I genuinely thought it was merely a matter of time, before Labour in Scotland would understand how much Scottish politics had changed, and they too would back Scotland in its quest to run its own affairs LIKE ANY OTHER NORMAL COUNTRY IN THE WORLD, but no, they haven’t. They want Scots dragged out of the EU against their wishes, they want Scots ruled by a rabid, uncaring Ultra right wing, Tory party in London, a party Scotland has NEVER elected since the 1950’s. And they want Scots to just sit back, do as they are told, and take it. They are pathetic. Labour in Scotland is living in a political imaginarium that ceased to exist (if it ever really did) post 1997.

    As for Khan accusing those seeking Scottish independence as racists (which IS what he did), I am sorely disappointed. He did for a while seem a semi-articulate, intelligent thoughtful member of the Labour party. I am staggered at how pig-ignorantly ill-informed he is on Scotland and Scottish politics. He is just yet another (as the wee ginger dug put it) Londonsplaining metropolitan Labour clown, on an awayday return to Scotland, to tell us Scots ‘how it is’.

    Labour has had chance after chance, after chance to grasp how Scottish politics have changed. The best they can do now, is simply b*gger off to London, the whole damn lot of them, since that seems to be where they are happiest.

    Good riddance to them if they do.

  21. Kenny mclaren says:

    He’s in the wrong party.

  22. Tombee says:

    Young Mr Gleeson is presently, where I was, politically, around four years ago. I am now a member of the SNP. His remark, ” It was more Unionist than Socialist”, Sums it up admirably. I wish him good luck.

  23. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Great line:“A pound shop Ruth Davidson”

    Of course, Ms Harrison is nothing but A Poundland Nicola Sturgeon

  24. Fred says:

    @ Smallaxe, the only thing I’d disagree with is the spelling of “keich!”

    The “Living Dead” is a feature of Tory conferences, the SLAB affair could have saved cash by booking a much smaller venue, they must have scoured the Care Homes to try & pack the place, toon-cooncilors much in evidence, doubtless dreading the May clearance!

  25. Smallaxe says:

    Robert Louis says:
    “WTF!! What are you snorting Kezia??”

    She’s no’ snortin’ Robert, just like Khan pig-ignorant, she’s Jist gruntin’ as usual.

    Peace Always

  26. Nana says:

    Dugdale and the rest of them disgust me, I can hardly bear to look upon their faces anymore. They have gone way beyond decency.
    Just bury the corpse, it stinks.

    Morning links on previous thread for anyone interested.

  27. Smallaxe says:

    Fred:

    I stand corrected, by the way, I got Bare feet and Tackety Boots delivered on Thursday, £2:40 FROM Amazon. Thanks.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  28. Ian McCubbin says:

    What a shame worse than I thought. Must admire thpar young folk for sticking with the organisation. Question is why. SNP offers a much better alternative.

  29. Desimond says:

    Just me picturing Liam Gleeson adopting a soft Norn Ireland brogue and saying “Kezia..i will find you..and my words will kill you(r leadership)

    Lets not get too cosy for young Liam though,,,wont be long before he is out campaigning strongly against us and I dare say folk like Gordon Brown, Jim Murphy and Douglas Alexander all had moments like these before being consumed by the Dark Side,

    Once Kez goes in May we will know where Labours final destination lies

  30. davidb says:

    @ Robert Louis

    Don’t forget that the Conservative result in Scotland in the 1950’s is widely regarded as a reaction to Nationalisation and the control of Scottish industry moving to London. With hindsight the popular instinct was probably correct.

    In any event it was never anything like the result the SNP had in 2015. Although Labour did manage 56 seats before, that was out of 72. No party has taken 95% of the seats in Scotland since the war.

  31. R-type Grunt says:

    From the mouths of babes..

  32. Robert Louis says:

    Davidb at 0945am,

    A very good point you make. All Labour have left of MP’s in Scotland, is Ian Murray, who dances (union jack suit and all) a very good unionist pseudo socialist jig doon Morningside way, In Edinburgh.

  33. Stephen Kilday says:

    Liam is the politically energetic young man we will need in an independent Scotland. He should be campaining ( idealy within the SNP) for independence in the knowledge that when we are free from westminster he could be instrumental in setting up one of the truely Scottish political parties to represent our very diverse peoples

  34. DerekM says:

    Well if anybody needed proof that Labour are the same party as the conservatives the westminster elitist party here it is.

    Which some of us old Labour guys(you listening Liam)knew the day they voted tombstone tony as leader the Labour party had sold out their principles and trashed their morality in exchange for Tory English votes.

  35. CmonIndy says:

    There were quite a few delegates not applauding when Dugdale was misinforming.

  36. Thepnr says:

    Two weavers promise an Empress a new suit of clothes that they say is invisible to those who are unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent.

    When the Empress parades before her subjects in her new clothes, no one dares to say that they don’t see any suit of clothes on her for fear that they will be seen as “unfit for their positions, stupid, or incompetent”.

    Finally, Liam Gleeson cries out, “But she isn’t wearing anything at all!”

    Well said Liam, now you have had your eyes open. Join us in support of a better country for our young and old. Support Independence, you will be welcome.

  37. mogabee says:

    Well. that’s a doozy and no mistake. Wonder how long before he finds that switch clicks on it and walks away from Labour?

    Or, will he ignore his inner misgivings, fully joins the “Labour family” and marches off under the red flag to oblivion?

    Either way, many, many of us have been on that journey and really, it’s been an exciting trip so far. So just do it Liam, the future will thank you. 😀

  38. robertknight says:

    KD is undoubtedly the best advert for the SNP. Every time she gets to her feet it’s like listening to someone trying to enthuse a bunch of six year olds about the benefits of hand washing.

    The longer she keeps at it, the better for us. Just don’t tell her how Einstein would define her SNP-bad technique…

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

  39. Marcia says:

    The Daily Hate Mail type smears from Labour in Scotland this weekend has rightly blown up in their faces. I wonder who thought of that one.

  40. mike cassidy says:

    An independent Scotland will need a centre – left party of some description, Liam.

    Come on over and help us get there.

  41. Patrick Roden says:

    Taking people for granted has been about the only thing consistent about the Labour Branch Office for the past 100 years, so Liam better get used to the feeling of disappointment.

    The well worn but oh so true saying in Scotland that : “I didn’t leave the Labour Party, it was them that left me!” springs to mind when I read what Liam was tweeting from the conference.

    Liam, I’m sure you will be reading these comments, so like a lot of people I am baffled as to why a young lad with intelligence, like you, still thinks labour are still a socialist party?

    Why on earth are you still a member of the party that voted for nuclear weapons?
    surely you know that Slab voting differently from the UK party on this matter is a sham intended to deceive the ‘low information voters’

    Do you really want to campaign for a party that introduced the bedroom tax, and who have consistently refused to vote against the policy when the Tories have made it even more severe?

    Do you support Austerity and are you not ashamed that Labour have abstained, refused to vote against, or even voted with the Tories, to push this policy through the House of Commons, even when it is so well document that this policy is causing so much harm and death to some of the most vulnerable people in our communities?

    I could go on and on Liam, but if you are not prepared to abandon a party that don’t care about the disabled or the poorest people in our communities, then I doubt you’ll care what I say.

    I hope you will at least give it some thought Liam.

  42. Daisy Walker says:

    Dear Liam,

    You are now in the very bad books of the Labour Party, not because they read your Social Media postings, but because they undoubtedly read Wings.

    However, if it is of any comfort, know this, the above article shows you up to be intelligent, articulate and principled, and its simple rules of nature that for any organisation taken over by the dead wood, with none of those attributes, it simply cannot afford to have talent come in, get promoted and show them all up for their shortcomings.

    Your card with Labour was already marked.

    I don’t doubt the next months for you will be challenging, please know that the YES movement will welcome you with open arms. But it is your journey. Please follow your heart and your head. Good things will come.

    Kindest regards.

  43. Kevin says:

    The wean makes more sense than the adults. Well-done, Liam – btw, you’ll be sent to Coventry for this, son

    Are you reading this, pound-shop Ruth?
    Scotland’s inevitable Independence is directly related to your valued incompetence.

    Just carry right on doing whatever it is you’re doing

  44. drawdeaddave says:

    The Earth revolves around the Sun… You learn something new everyday..

  45. Cadogan Enright says:

    Sounds like decent and committed young man who understands what is happening in the world

    If he joined the Tommy Sheppard wing of the SNP they could set up a real Scottish Labour Party after independence

    I think we all accept the SNP is a bus taking us on a journey, and that Greens, Labourites, Social Democrats and others will all disembark when we arrive at the bus station of Independence.

    I think we would all be happy to work with a decent skin like Liam

  46. jdman says:

    When do we get to bayonet the wounded?

  47. Robert Graham says:

    I wonder how many times Tory was mentioned during this SNP hatefest, this lot have lost sight of the Enemy , blind hatred is what drives them, as for this clown Anas and his reply to Nicola Sturgeons condemnation of Kahns misjudged remarks that branded us all as Racist, Sarwar really drags Labour further down into the gutter, scratch the surface of Mr Sarwars neatly crafted persona and a whole lot of unsavoury little items will no doubt be uncovered.

  48. Breeks says:

    I’m not in too much of a hurry to commiserate with Liam Gleeson. All the things Labour has done wrong in and out of government these past few decades, all the lies and deception, and unholy alliances with the Tories and Lib Dems to frustrate Scotland’s self determination passed this fella by, as he was making his way in the Labour Party youth ranks, no doubt slagging off Independence and Nat bashing his way to recognition by his peers.

    None of that bothers him, but suddenly he has a crisis of conscience because Kedia isn’t a very good leader?

    And furthermore, he airs his concerns in the most public way possible, right when the Labour Party is under the media lens, and of course, the big Labour boss is in town? Well, that might be youthful exuberance, but it ought too to trigger alarm bells. I don’t know Mr Gleeson from Adam, but from what I have seen, he has just to make his first sound judgement and has all the makings of another attention seeking neurotic self publicist who isn’t after Ms Dugdales job, but Weetabix Torrance better watch his back.

    If it was down to me, I would extend him the opportunity to mature his political beliefs and opinions in private, and “out” of the political spotlight.

  49. Bob MACK says:

    Liam is just discovering that the old maxim ‘The enemy of my enemy is my friend”,
    has completely taken over the Labour Party. Their only function in Scotland is to prop up Tories regardless of the cost to idealism or members. I have watched them gradually morph into Tory lite to try and frustrate the people of Scotland.

    I remember the heady days of having ideals just like Liam. I lost them somewhere along the way, but found them again during the referendum which awoke me from a long self induced slumber. I wish him well.

    My advice for what it is worth is for him to find an outlet for his obvious drive. Remain in Labour young man and you will be drained and stifled to deny everything you hold dear.

  50. robertknight says:

    Won’t be long until the name changes to something akin to Truth’s rabble, just so there can be no doubt as to where the priorities lie…

    Scottish Labour And Unionist Party

    Oh to be a proud, paid-up member of SLAUP!

    (Sounds like something worthy of a mop and bucket – which is about right).

  51. Robert Kerr says:

    @jdman

    “A bayonet has a working man at both ends.”

    Young Liam should listen and take note then action.

    God speed young man

  52. heedtracker says:

    Sounds just like the BBC led Scottish press too. They are the self preservation society…

  53. Dizzy Dugtail is on the Andy Pandy Marr show at 11 am this morn. Let’s see if he gives her an easy ride, or goes mental as he did with the UKipper this morn?

    The Lord Mayor of London insulted me and all Yes voters at the Lumpen Pairty Conference yesterday. I object tr be called racist in any shape or form. Nicola responded. Where is the sane meejah coverage as the oft repeated lie? Will cheesy be held to account? Is she accusing her SNP parents of racism because they support Independence for the their country?

  54. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    If Liam Gleeson truly believes in a real “Scottish Labour Party” and can’t for whatever reason join another party like the SNP then surely Labour for Independence is where he should go and be very vocal about all he believes in as a Socialist.

    Independence is the only thing that offers Labour a chance in Scotland now.

    Clear out the old self serving Unionists and start from scratch post Indy.

  55. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “as for this clown Anas”

    FFS, readers, stop making me correct this (as I’ve done there). It’s not funny or helpful to make it “anus”, any more than idiot Yoons saying “Natzi” and such. It gets caught in the moderation filter and more often than not I just can’t be arsed fiddling around and delete it instead.

  56. Hamish100 says:

    As some old style labour unionist Councillors clapping away. The young folk looked demoralised.

  57. Hamish100 says:

    Saw old style labour Councillors clap. Younger labour looks demoralised

  58. heedtracker says:

    SLab’s now got a “NO more Scottish referendums!” petition online and

    https://stv.tv/news/politics/1381718-corbyn-snp-must-respect-democracy-and-accept-brexit/

    Quite bossy, end of era SLab.

  59. @Breeks

    Paul the Apostle was dedicated to the persecution of the disciples of Jesus,

    from there he turned into one of the Christian churches greatest apostles,

    those that see the light after living in darkness are sometimes the best to preach the truth because they have seen both sides,

    think we need to give people like Liam a chance to cross the floor,

    ball is in his court. (to mix metaphors)

  60. ScotsRenewables says:

    Watching Kez directing rapid fire into both feet on Sunday Politics . . . does she have some Klingon blood in her, or should whoever did her eyebrows be sacked?

  61. heedtracker says:

    “Are you going to carve up England with your federal plan?” asks the Ligger live, its a conversation says Kez.

    “Mayor Khan says there is no difference between Scottish nationalism and racism Kez?” asks the Ligger live.

    He didn’t say it, says Kez.

  62. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Oor Andra v the Pound Shop Ruth Davidson – yet another car crash interview.

    Keziathoughtifshewaffledonathighspeedanddidn’ttakeabreathtoreventAndragettingawordinsidewaysandtotallyignoredhisquestionsshewouldgetawaywithit.

    Again she failed. Mind you, Andra let her off easily, he soft-pedalled.

  63. Tam the Bam. says:

    Sunday Politics with Brillo the Ligger:

    Kezia attempting to defend the indefensible (Sadiq Khan).

  64. Capella says:

    A refreshing glimmer of truth from a bright young person whose ideals have not completely clouded his feelings.

    No doubt his “colleagues” will turn on him for allowing this insight to inform debate.

    Good luck Liam. In an independent Scotland you could well be leading a genuine socialist movement.

  65. Capella says:

    -corbyn-snp-must-respect-democracy-and-accept-brexit/

    Well I hope someone informs Jeremy Corbyn that there are two kingdoms in the United Kingdom – England and Scotland. England voted to leave Europe. Scotland voted to remain in Europe.

    We’re staying.

  66. Grouse Beater says:

    Gandhi said:

    “Violent nationalism, otherwise known as imperialism, is the curse. Non-violent nationalism is necessary condition of civilised life”.

    Here’s my essay on English racism written a week before Khan showed he’s a racist:

    http://wp.me/p4fd9j-dEN

  67. chris kilby says:

    Oor Kez is in the altogether, the altogether, the altogether…

  68. Thepnr says:

    I was like Liam at one time. An idealist who joined the Labour Party aged 20 believing I could make a difference.

    I didn’t and couldn’t so I never stayed but continued to support them and vote for them for a further 35 years. Only in 2012 did I give up believing in Labour, the scales had fallen from my eyes too.

    No longer were they a socialist party, they had been taken over by people who were no different to Tories, it is hard to finally accept that you were wrong in your beliefs. That everything you previously believed in was a sham.

    There are 10’s of thousands like me all across Scotland who see Independence as the only means of bring back a semblance of democracy to Scotland. Without Independence our votes don’t count at all, we will continue to be governed by Tories that we never vote for. We have to put up with policies abhorrent to the majority.

    We have to put up with foodbanks, evictions and suicides because we fail to treat people with respect unless they have wealth. The NHS will be privatised, funding for Scotland will be hit accordingly and we will all be worse off.

    I hope Liam and other young people will see what it took me a long time to see. That is the Labour party have supported many of these policies, they voted for austerity and bombing in Syria. They are not Socialist and have nothing to offer Scotland as part of the UK. They are bought and paid for just like our Tory politicians.

    We can do it differently if we want. It’s the people of Scotland’s choice, we can make our own future. Let’s do it.

  69. heedtracker says:

    think we need to give people like Liam a chance to cross the floor,

    ball is in his court. (to mix metaphors)

    Or, he could campaign within Labour in Scotland, to do something radical,like back Scottish independence. He could even campaign within Labour to do something less radical, campaign for devolution of the great The Vow fraud, on all Scots that voted YES.

    Probably too late now though. Kez sezs Brexit’s going to see lots of new and exciting Holyrood devo but would anyone buy a used car off SLab now, let alone their Brexit devo for you suckas.

  70. Scott Borthwick says:

    Based on that campaign leaflet, I wonder if young Liam is trying to position himself to lead a Labour in an independent Scotland? It might be a stretch, and they’d be better off setting up their own party, but it could be worthwhile exploring the attitudes of these younger activists to independence.

  71. jimnarlene says:

    That man needs to escape, and join the SNP asap.

  72. Tam the Bam. says:

    Scottish Sunday Politics:

    Iain Gray desperately trying to find a federal England in a Perth Subway.

  73. Gary45% says:

    In the words of a modified classic,
    LABOUR.. You’re just another type of Tory.
    (What’s the story, Oasis), could also be used for
    LIARS.. You’re just another lying Tory.

    Well done to this lad Liam, for sticking his head above the parapet, I don’t think Slab will like the truth being broadcast, bit in good way it’s refreshing the youth are prepared to make a stance, no matter what party they support.

  74. Please do’t equate the honest Puondshop with Dizzy Dugtail. Where else can I spend my pocket money? Dizzy wants me to spend my money over the Border.

    Andy Kneel did not take any guff from Dizzy this morn, nor did Gordon Brewer take any from her Dizzy counterpart, Iain Greybrain. Neither hacks are capable of answering the questions asked in court? How on earth would they fair if they had to answer questions for their crimes?

  75. heedtracker says:

    BBC Sunday Politics, Ligger Neil, and three other liggers, from the Heil, the Torygraph and the Times, for that lovely BBC balance. Glenda Slag of the Heil currently lauding Fuhrage and Trump special relationship, because BBC is so balanced.

  76. DerekM says:

    Jeez the slabber idiots are digging an almighty hole.

    They are starting to remind me of lib dems,we can say what ever we want as nobody is ever going to vote for us to be in power.

    What is next a free pair of Gordon Brown UJ underpants if you vote for Labour federalism?

  77. galamcennalath says:

    People like Liam need to think about what policies they personally stand for, then consider carefully how that fits with what Labour, the SNP and the Greens.

    They may have feelings of ‘brand loyalty’ but they should follow their heads, not their hearts. They should look forwards to what might be rather than backwards to what was.

    Many, including Liam, would probably realise they now belong elsewhere.

  78. GrahamB says:

    Back in the 70s and 80s I used to go climbing with and have great political discussions in the pub with a staunch socialist. He had been in the Communist Party in his youth then settled in to the socialist wing (remember them?) of the Labour Party. He was a staunch defender of the NHS, eventually became an MP and latterly an MSP.
    I watched him fairly quickly drift towards Blairism and away from his left wing roots. I challenged him three times on his rightward movement.
    The first time he told me he had to be inside the system to be able to change it. Then he angrily responded that it was not as easy as people thought, and the final answer was just a shrug of his shoulders. We never talked politics again.
    My fear for young Liam is that he and his enthusiastic comrades will get sucked down the same slippery slope as my old friend and a lot of promising talent will be wasted.

  79. There is no more sense in a “Labour For Independence” organisation than there is in an “SNP For The Union” organisation.

    I am sorry to have to say this as I respect many in the Labour Party who believe in independence but the bedraggled remains of the Labour Party in Scotland has defined itself firmly as a unionist party.

    The formation of the SSP made sense as would a new Independent Labour Party.

    There should have been a resolution at the Scottish Labour conference proposing that Labour support independence. If that had been on the table and was lost independence supporting Labour supporters who understood that that was the single most important issue facing Scotland would have had a duty to leave the party. Farting about where they are is a waste of time.

  80. jfngw says:

    Going of topic here but as I’ve seen various quotes in the press about £30m more being given to the new BBC channel, it should be pointed out this is only £19m more as the other £11m is being moved from BBC2 programmes. I deduce from this that BBC2 opts of Scottish programmes will stop but I could be wrong.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39042666

  81. Bill McLean says:

    It is a sad reflection on Labour in Scotland that their lack of talent and policies is leading to them talking to Tories about council coalitions to keep the SNP out! Labour must reflect, and soon, what they stand for or more and more of their younger members like Liam are going to see them for what they are and walk away as I hope Liam will – a young idealist with integrity has no place in today’s Labour party. They are mostly Tories in everything but name plus a few rabid SNP, Scotland and Independence haters who pretend to be socialists. These latter types should be asked at every opportunity, as I do, when do you think Westminster will provide a socialist, or anything approaching it, Britain? Shameful disgrace and embarrassment to their founders, supporters and former supporters!

  82. Macart says:

    Well said, the young fella.

    Oh, and OOFT! 🙂

  83. Arbroath1320 says:

    I hope Liam, and his friends, can find the courage to visit this site and read this article. They must all now know that Labour are finished in Scotland.

    I can accept people standing by their ideals but when these ideals are ignored by the party you have supported then it is surely time to move on. They do not even have to join another party just walk away from the party that has abandoned them, like it has done to thousands of Labour supporters before and will continue to do so in future.

    They need to get out amongst their peers and tell them the TRUTH about Labour. For some inconceivable reason some folks do not want to believe what WE say but they may very well listen to Liam and his friends though.

  84. Dr Jim says:

    I read some of this kids stuff and he should just stay exactly where he is squealing 1950s socialism as loud as he can in the student union where he belongs, or in a padded cell with his Jeremy Corbyn citizen Smith bunnet on, he’s like listening to a 90 year old Labour supporter eating his own pigeons for dinner

  85. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    So BLIS not only think we are racist but that we are stupid too?

    They think we didn’t read/hear Khans statement?

    They think we forgot how they stood shoulder to shoulder with the Tories in IndyRef 1 and then voted against Scotlands best interests during the ratification of all the promises given in the Smith Commission and The Clunking Fists ‘Vow’?

    Single figures for there vote share can’t come soon enough.

    Just image for a second what the true share of the vote BLIS would actually get:

    If they were challenged in the same way the SNP/SG are about current and historical policy decisions.

    If they were given the airtime they deserve presently not the airtime they think they deserve historically (like the Fib Dems also get) because of past loyalties of NUJ Members and cliches.

    They would have been irrelevant a lot sooner.

  86. jfngw says:

    One consequence of Labour’s federal plans would presumably be the end of the 4 UK Nations being able to compete in international sport as separate countries. After all Scotland would then become just a region within the UK federation, I can’t see the rest of the world maintaining the current position, after all the USA isn’t allowed to enter individual states in competitions.

    Also Labour I suspect want to dispose with the Treaty of Union and Acts of Union to make any future independence near impossible. Kezia’s defence of the Union is her primary priority. I believe Scotland would truly be extinguished if this route was taken, after all why does Brown support it, You will be singing “Flower of North Britain’ at the six Nations.

  87. Arbroath1320 says:

    Well here you folks … it’s official … Jeremy Corbyn supports … erm … SNP! 😀

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MThC9oq3sr4

  88. Clootie says:

    “…more unionist than socialist”

    The very reason so many people left the Labour Party and yet here is another example of someone just waking up to reality.
    The old imperial guard will never surrender…especially now when they are fighting Ruthie for the Britnat voters.

    Liam
    If you don’t want to join the SNP or Greens then START a proper Scottish Labour Party.

  89. James Westland says:

    Arbroath1320

    Thats just embarrassing. Toe curling, buttock clenching stuff.

  90. Breeks says:

    Scot Finlayson says:
    26 February, 2017 at 11:16 am
    @Breeks

    …… we need to give people like Liam a chance to cross the floor…..

    Big difference Scot. Young Liam hasn’t so much seen the light as seen the chance to undermine his boss in front of his London boss and the London Mayor, and thereby draw attention to himself.

    Don’t get me wrong, I know Independence is all about engaging with those who disagree with us, and welcoming and embracing those who come around to our way of thinking.

    Sadly, I think Mr Gleeson cares only about furthering the political career of Mr Gleeson. I wouldn’t trust him any more than I would have trusted a young Alistair Darling, who he actually reminds me of.

  91. Arbroath1320 says:

    Nah James …. that is Labour at its supreme BEST! 😀

    Here is Labour heading towards being at their worst! 😀

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qMwj9iKG6Q

  92. Arbroath1320 says:

    Think I’ll leave this here … in “loving memory” of Labour branch office.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fn36l_z3WY

  93. Liam, I find it encouraging that there are still young Socialist activists out there who palpably really DO care about the people of Scotland first.
    I posted this earlier on Paul’s Wee Ginger Dug site.
    “Smug, patronising, pseudo urbane, feigning ennuie when challenged, the self satisfied mayor of one of the great cities of the world, the world FFS, smirks at Toodle Oo The Noo on camera, and describes the reaction to his smarmy murky evil little smear on the Scottish electorate as ‘mock horror’.
    I’ve just watched Dugdale’s Rallying of the Troops on I Player. I wasn’t going to, but frankly I thought she couldn’t have been as bad as the tweets and posts made her out to be. I was right. She was much much worse.
    This woman needs psychiatric help.
    Her psychotic hatred of Nicola Surgeon is quite frankly alarming.
    The 45-60 year olds in the audience, the Movers and Shakers of the Branch Office, sat arms folded, brows furrowed, shoulders slumped, quite obviously fed up with their leader. She hasn’t long to go now.
    The SNP had apparently made a mess of everything, and 220,000 Scottish Children are in poverty and illiteracy because of their policies, which, ahem, Ms Dugdale shrieked, Nicola Sturgeon stole from her!
    Oh dear.
    Ian Murray was sitting at the top table, the man who joined his Red Tory colleagues, arm in arm with the Blue and Yellow Tories, and voted through the Charter for Budget Responsibility in January 2015, cutting welfare payments by £12 billion, cutting essential public services, and sacking 500,000 public servants to ‘save’ another £13 billion, and awarded the rich a 5% cut in their income tax.
    That would be the same vile Nicola Sturgeon who, during the televised leadershiop debate in the run up to the UK GE 2015, condemned the Red Blue and Yellow Tory cuts, demanded an end to rob the poor reward the rich ‘austerity’ cuts, and advocated a modest £118 billion investment is creating jobs, supporting infrastructure projects, and ending the politically engineered impoverishment of our least fortunate citizens.
    Cameron, Miliband, and Clegg, were having none of it. Cameron boasted of £29 billion having been ‘saved’ during the Coalition parliament, and promised even bigger ‘savings;’ when the Tories got back in, with not a hint of dissent from Kez’s precious Leader at the time Tombstone Miliband, the racist of Immigration Mug fame.
    That would be that Nicola Sturgeon, Kez?
    It is she who has plunged 220,000 Scots children into poverty is it?
    Or was it that wee rotund man sitting at the end of the table on stage with you?
    The non Nationalist chap who wears Union Jack suits on occasion, but not so much now.
    Jackie Baillie is heading an Industry think tan?
    Gordon Brown is going to co host a Constitutional Convention along with Kez on Federalism; but not for another three years yet, in 2020.
    In the interim Labour Branch Office want to have a ‘conversation’ with me, which may require a Ouija Board soon given my advanced years.
    It got better. Despite having their arses skelped last year for advocating a penny in the pound tax rises, to pay for, well, you name it, Kezia wants to increase Child Benefit for all, one of those Universal Benefits which Lamont, sitting beside Frank the Pieman in the far from packed hall, slated as ‘something for nothing’ rewarding the rich, or some such, just shortly before Kezia and Mags stabbed her in the back, and JoLa blew a Branch Office gasket.
    Jackie Baillie, Gordon Brown, Ian Gray, Johann Lamont, Frank McAveety, James Kelly, Alex Rowley..ye gods. These are the fresh new faces Kezia promised us?
    Mr Khan, fuck off back to London. I choose not to be polite or diplomatic. Take your tawdry little opinions back down the motorway. You’ll know when you are back in England when you have to pay a toll to get through the Tyne Tunnel, one of the boons of being ‘Stronger Together’.
    London is a town..with a cathedral. Scotland is a country.
    No comparison.
    Labour is Scotland is well and truly over.
    Jackie Baillie/Industry? Jeezo.
    What a sad little Conference.”
    I apologise to Stu for the C and P, but I find it appropriate, since I list the same tired old mountebanks (Brown, Baillie, Dugdale, Lamont, McAveety, Gray)who are to take forward the New ‘Listening’ Labour Branch, by holding a ‘conversation’ with us poor wee ‘eat your cereal’ Sweaties, and somehow hold a Constituional Convention in 2020, with the resolution already in their pocket. Devo Devo Devo Maxest Federal Scotland, Federal Cornwall, Federal London…aye richt.
    Jackie Baillie is the Industry Czar?
    I feel for you, Liam. We were once soldiers too.
    Ask yourself: if I am truly an international socialist, why am I supporting a party which will cut ties with 27 European countries to prop up Fortress England?
    I’m afraid that you have coined a belter, Liam. Pound Shop Labour. I shall use it; sorry.
    Peace and prosper ,young sir. Your heart is definitely in the right place, and that’s more than half the battle.

  94. Diane Sutherland says:

    The vote for YSL was held on 11 February and Liam did become Chairperson and the whole committee is made up of the Young Labour Scotland Socialist candidates. Hope no-one tells Kezia ?

  95. jfngw says:

    It’s going to be entertaining watching Ruth & Kezia compete for Unionist of the year award. I’ll keep my eye out for which one appears on the banners in July.

  96. Calum McKay says:

    Liam sounds like a bright articulate chap with an ability to steer his own path rather than following blindly orders from on high.

    Curious as to what he is doing in the Labour Party? A party that has moved to the far right on immigration, is trying to out do the tories on the union, has sold his / young people’s futures down the river on the EU and would rather he lived his whole life under right wing uncaring tory rule rather than people living in Scotland governing Scotland within the EU.

    Liam, you and your pals need to look in the mirror, the only way you will get what you want is in an independent Scotland! Some in your “current” party, the deadwood SNP haters like Curran, Gray, Foulkes, Bailey, Lamont and not forgetting Brown and Darling, there will be no future for them in an independent Scotland, but Fove and a half million should not be held back because of this deadwood.

  97. galamcennalath says:

    jfngw says:

    Labour’s federal plans …..Scotland would then become just a region within the UK federation

    Although bring that up from a sports point of view, it is absolutely true. It is exactly why I am opposed so strongly to a federal UK. Scotland would be reduced to a region among many.

    Scotland is a nation and a country, Alabama is neither.

    The UK as it stands sucks, but at least it is formally a Union of countries.

    Labour I suspect want to dispose with the Treaty of Union and Acts of Union to make any future independence near impossible.

    Definitely. Not only Labour but others who talk of a new Union, federation, new constitution are almost certainly motivated to make it harder to dissolve. Solely motivated perhaps to secure the integrity of their UK.

    Federation is a trap. We must never fall into it.

    A short term gain in powers and guaranteed rights and permanency for our regional legislature would be on offer, in return we would give away our soul!

    Anyways, federation is not on the cards, Westminster would hand power down the next lower level of government across the UK, not even to save it.

  98. yesindyref2 says:

    Very sad.

    The problem for the likes of Liam Gleeson is that there seems to be no alternative. Green are perhaps too Green, SSP too far left, and the SNP, well, a lot of people just don’t like them.

    Perhaps Lab For Indy can be a real alternative for staunch Labour supporters, but I guess too people like Liam Gleeson are not wanting to split Labour. But the problem is, it is split, much as Paul Hutcheon in the SH wrote in his brutally honest article.

  99. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Arbroath1320 @ 14:30,

    “Thanks” for that video clip. (=grin=) Always good to know what the opposition are saying & thinking, of course, but I could only watch a minute of it before I started to feel quite ill, and had to quit. I just don’t understand how that woman can manage to keep on denying the reality that is staring her (and us) in the face. She is, I fear, well on her way to becoming a figure of fun. A ridiculous self-parody.

    It also never ceases to amaze me how Labour’s proudly reiterated “togetherness” seems to evaporate at Dover. As if allergic to water. And these spineless Brexiteer collaborators have the nerve to try branding outward-looking yessers as “racist”!

    Labour’s politics is increasingly the politics of the loony bin.

  100. gus1940 says:

    Dugdale on Sunday Politics with Brillo was as usual in MG42 mode as she spouted her lies.

  101. Arthur Martin says:

    I’m posting just to say thank you to all the talented articulate people that post in here. I’ve learned so much from the views expressed by a very agreeable, talented bunch of exremely passionate like minded friendly folks.

    I don’t personally post a lot as most issues have already been very well articulated by the time I get here, but I take a great deal of pleasure reading the very uplifting posts and come away very heartened by them.

    When our country gets its independence, I feel that with great folk of the calibre similar to the type posting here in Wings running our affairs, we cannot be anything other than a successful, thriving Nation that each and every one of us can be rightly proud to call our home.

    Also a big thanks to Stu for his sterling efforts in busting the lies and telling us all the plain and simple facts. I have had a big awakening over the last 5 years and it’s been a blast.

    If I could, I would buy each and every one of you a cheeky wee beverage 🙂 to celebrate that great day! Cheers.

  102. Rock says:

    Liam Gleeson has pointed out everything that is wrong with Labour in Scotland.

    Why is he in with that lot?

    One can never change such utterly corrupt parties from within.

    He will soon get corrupted if he doesn’t get out very quickly.

  103. Fred says:

    @ Jack Collatin, good post!

  104. Shinty says:

    Arthur Martin – couldn’t agree more.

  105. Graham Rae says:

    More and more Dugtail (wagged from Westminster) reminds me more and more of Comical Ali, the wacky Iraqi stand-up; and we haven’t forgotten that murderous Iraqi debacle was the fault of her worthless party.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfAeMtcURg0

  106. Bill says:

    Try criticising the SNP. Don’t mention the crass baby box idea.



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