Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


The plot weirdens

Posted on May 02, 2013 by

The “Calmangate” story just keeps getting stranger and stranger. A few hours after our piece earlier today noting that the Scotsman had overwritten their article alleging the comedian had suffered death threats and a “barrage of abuse” with a completely new one, a version of the original reappeared at its original address.

Its temporary absence was (ostensibly) explained by a post in the comments:

scotsmanadmin

“Required for legal reasons”? Hmm, let’s see.

We’ve had a look at both versions, and as far as we can see they’re identical up to the end of the main text. All that’s missing from the republished version are two passages entirely made up of quotes. Here’s what’s been removed:

‘I’m convinced it means I’m doing the right thing’

SUSAN Calman hit back over the abuse about her appearance on the News Quiz in her blog. Among her comments were:

“Turns out a lot of people got really angry about what I said. Turns out I’m edgier than I thought I was.

“I’ve been told that someone has written a blog which is pretty abusive towards me after my performance.

“I haven’t looked for it, and won’t. It’s not worth it. Sadly for those abusing me I’ve had much worse in my time. Try growing up gay in Glasgow in the 1980s.

“Scottish people are meant to have a tremendous sense of humour. We do. Except when it comes to the referendum it seems. I learnt so much about politics through comedy when I was growing up, and I think it’s crucial that comedy plays it’s part in the process that’s happening now.

“No-one ever says that English comedians shouldn’t be negative about English politicians. There would be little comedy left if that was the case.

“Why should there be a reverence towards any politicians in Scotland? Labour, SNP, Tory, Green whoever. All should be open to lampoon. That’s what satire does. And when satire is done well it’s because there’s something there to laugh at.

“I will keep talking about Scottish Politics. I’ll keep laughing about Scottish Politics. I’m not going to pretend that I’m not disappointed that people are being horrific towards me. Of course I am. But I’m also pretty convinced it means I’m doing the right thing.”

What she said on the show

“Initially Alex Salmond said, ‘It is definitely the euro. It is going to be totally the euro.’ And then Europe said ‘naw’ and then he said, ‘It is totally the pound. It is going to be the pound.’ But this wee Osborne and Danny Alexander – flying in like a ginger Supergran – said, ‘Naw, you’re not getting the pound.’ And Alex was like: ‘Haud on, what if we want the pound?’.”

“The problem is that whenever Conservative ministers tell us about independence, to some Scottish people it sounds like the teacher in Charlie Brown – just going wah…wah…wah.”

“It is really difficult because with things getting a bit closer, we kind of need to know what’s happening if people do vote for independence. At the moment, it is just two people shouting, ‘Aye, we will have it’ and someone going ‘No, we won’t’.”

(Asked which way she would be voting)

“Oh, gosh! No, there is nothing that could cause me grief about saying if I was pro or anti-independence in Scotland just now. No, it is very much a light-hearted discussion.

“The thing is, what I would say is that I think English people are lovely… What’s going to happen? They are not going to build a border. We are going to keep the pound. We will still have the Royal Family, so I am not sure what’s going on. It seems to me that’s kind of what’s happening just now.”

“It is just like Take That when Robbie left. It all fell apart… think on.”

One of those two sections comprises quotes from Ms Calman’s own blog about the incident, which (at the time of writing) is still online. The other is a partial transcript of the most recent episode of The News Quiz on which Ms Calman appeared, which (again, at the time of writing) is also still online – including the comments in question, which appear in the first few minutes.

Since both sets of quotes are still fully in the public domain, we’re absolutely mystified as to how the Scotsman could possibly have been required to remove them “for legal reasons”. Perhaps someone could enlighten us.

We still really like Miles Jupp, if that’s at all relevant to anything.

92 to “The plot weirdens”

  1. Seasick Dave says:

    I think I’m losing the will to live.

  2. Marcia says:

    Seasick Dave
     
    Don’t jump.

  3. Doug Daniel says:

    Perhaps Ms Calman and the BBC are both suing for copyright infringement?

  4. kininvie says:

    The answer is the ‘ongoing criminal investigation’ (whatever that may or may not be). The mention of one is quite sufficient to ensure that the Scotsman’s legal advisors panic and insist anything that might be remotely prejudical – even if so remotely as to be invisible – is taken out. Not being burdened with timorous lawyers, the other sources remain….

  5. Desimond says:

    My wife affirms that Take That were better when Robbie left….perhaps Gary Barlows dark hand is at work here!
    In other news…my mate Tam Random reports ..”I hear a hollywood stunner is talking about fancying me, I’m not gonna search on Google about it, its nice to hear such things but I wont comment on it or help my profile any, No, even though my ego is going through the roof, i shall just keep doing what im doing! i wont get fussed…Try getting chucked reguarly in 1980s Glasgow!!”

  6. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The answer is the ‘ongoing criminal investigation’ (whatever that may or may not be). The mention of one is quite sufficient to ensure that the Scotsman’s legal advisors panic and insist anything that might be remotely prejudical – even if so remotely as to be invisible – is taken out.”

    How the heck could an accurate transcript of a still-available national radio broadcast be prejudicial to anything? The show happened before the alleged abuse and therefore makes no reference to it of any kind.

  7. McHaggis says:

    I’ll wager right here and now a crisp £10 note (scottish of course) that the police uncover absolutely no evidence of “death threats” having been made.

  8. Cath says:

    “Oh, gosh! No, there is nothing that could cause me grief about saying if I was pro or anti-independence in Scotland just now. No, it is very much a light-hearted discussion.”
     
    Interesting. At the time I was listening I thought this was quite an odd thing to say, given everyone and his dog has an opinion. The only reason I could think someone like Calman could be “caused grief” was if she came out as pro-indy as a BBC panellist. It actually led me to think she was pro. Obviously now I know she isn’t.
     
    Reading the transcript  back with all that’s happened subsequently, it almost starts to look as if the whole thing was a set up.

  9. handclapping says:

    I suppose it could be fraud, attempting to sell the Scotsman as a newspaper, but they are a bit late on that. Wouldn’t they be better off looking for the death threats?

  10. Barontorc says:

    If the Scotsman printed that tomorrow is Friday 3 May and that it would be followed by Saturday 4 May, I’d need to have it confirmed elsewhere.
     
    The rag has absolutely no credibility left and I do think from time to time, when I can be bothered, about the mental condition of those journalists who work there.
     
    It’s a thought that the risible dumpling Magnus Gardham could swell their ranks of mediocrity even more.
     
    Who employs these cretins?

  11. Juteman says:

    Maybe it was The Scotsman that told her about the mystery ‘blog’?
    If the ‘blog’ doesn’t exist, then they could be in trouble, so trying to remove any reference to the blog?

  12. Cath says:

    btw, when I say a set-up, I don’t necessarily mean Calman herself was involved. It may just be that she’s been played like an old fiddle here too.

  13. Roddy Macdonald says:

    @ Juteman
    The ‘mystery blog’ about Calman doesn’t exist. It was a delusion of grandeur either on her part or the part of her mystery informant.  The disparaging quotes in the original Hootsmon article are a straight lift from the comments on http://wingsoverscotland.com/have-we-got-friends-for-you/ which was about HIGNFY.
     
    More details here if you have access to Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/notes/roddy-macdonald/susan-calman-stooshie-edgy-establishment-darling-not-threatened-with-death/10151603412091047

  14. Desimond says:

    Lending a football mind to this…
    Player A is happy at Team A
    Manager B likes Player A but cant tap said player directly.
    Manager B is a friend of reporter R
    Reporter R reports he has heard rumours Player A unsettled and linked to Team B
    Reporter Rs friends X,Y & Z report on reports
    Team A deny any problems with Player A after numerous reports
    Manager B praises Player A while denying any interest in an “apparently” settled player
    Player A finds himself in middle of shitstorm and considers his position.
    Manager B smiles.
    Any resemblance to Arry Redknapp totally coincidental.

  15. Yesitis says:

    Cath
    btw, when I say a set-up, I don’t necessarily mean Calman herself was involved. It may just be that she’s been played like an old fiddle here too.
     
    Yep. I was thinking along the same lines. First there was HIGNFY, then straight into this. Something`s very off about it.

  16. Lianachan says:

    I notice there’s a completely legitimate poll on the Scotsman website, which I’m sure hasn’t been manipulated in any way.
     
    Is Yes Scotland running an effective campaign in the independence referendum?
     
    Yes 2135 (14%)
    No  12793 (86%)

  17. Gordon Bain says:

    @ McHaggis
    and I’ll wager a similar tenner that if you’re correct neither you nor I will ever get to hear of it.
    Saor Alba!

  18. Seasick Dave says:

    Lianachan
     
    15,000 people go to the Scotsman to vote on YES Scotland?
     
    Hahaha!

    I feel better now :)

  19. Desimond says:

    Lianachan - hahaha, brilliant. Wonder if any of the News stations will actually broadcast this info or any Politico dare mention it. As the Rev said the other day….the Pikes continue to lie of the ground…the time to pick them up is still a long way off. Remember Culloden…running aw the way will knacker you!

  20. Douglas Gregory says:

    round and round it goes, another day another unionist beat-up…
     
    drip
     
    drip
     
    drip
     
    I’d like to say ‘sssnnnnnooooooooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee’
     
    …..but it is making me angry.  It’s 2013 and we are supposed to be having a  debate…..
     
    Bastards
     
     
     

  21. muttley79 says:

    And still no sign of the much promised positive case for the Union.  A neutral might think that the No campaign and the MSM have no other tactic than to smear the SNP, and the wider independence movement….

  22. Jiggsbro says:

    A neutral might think that the No campaign and the MSM have no other tactic than to smear the SNP, and the wider independence movement….
     
    Unfortunately, a neutral is more likely to swallow the smear, because the neutral is probably relying on the MSM for their information and trusting what the BBC (if not the newspapers) tell them.

  23. ecossenkosi says:

    Luckily I am not neutral and plaster every available article on my face book page to ensure all my connections get the truth.

  24. Tris says:

    I wonder  if the Hootsman (printed in England) will have a poll asking how well people thing the No campaign is doing…

  25. Seanair says:

    Tris
    Just asking—where in England is it published?  Have seen various references to this,but I thought it was printed in a suburb of Glasgow.
    Not printed in Edinburgh since JP shut the plant and sold the site for housing.

  26. muttley79 says:

    @Jiggsbro
     
    You make it sound like there is not much point in even trying to win!

  27. garyjc says:

    Long time reader of WOS, NNS, etc but rarely comment. However the terminal depression I felt coming on regarding Calman, and the endless MSM and BT negativity needed to be countered so it was very uplifting to read a couple of positive articles on the Scot goes Pop and Munguins Republic blogs today. Just the type of thing to raise the spirits again – or to reinforce why we desperately need shot of this imperial relic that is the UK. Both articles in need of wider circulation. Vote YES for me please – I can’t as I live in Canada and wont be home until 2015 earliest

  28. Braco says:

    Seasick Dave,
    at first I was scared I would die from it, now I am scared that I won’t !

  29. Cheryl says:

    What she said on the show
    “Initially Alex Salmond said, ‘It is definitely the euro. It is going to be totally the euro.’ And then Europe said ‘naw’ and then he said, ‘It is totally the pound. It is going to be the pound.’ But this wee Osborne and Danny Alexander – flying in like a ginger Supergran – said, ‘Naw, you’re not getting the pound.’ And Alex was like: ‘Haud on, what if we want the pound?’.”
    Remind me not to buy any tickets to her show.

  30. Taranaich says:

    “It is just like Take That when Robbie left. It all fell apart… think on.”
     
    Oh yes, everything went terribly for Robbie when he left Take That: 70 million albums sold compared to Take That’s 45 million, the most BRIT awards of any artist in history with 17 to Take That’s 15 (9 of the latter after Robbie rejoined in the late 2000s), selling the most tickets in one day for any recording artist in history for his Close Encounters tour, the most ECHO awards of any artist with 10, voted the Greatest Artist of the Nineties by the UK Hall of Fame, six of his albums in the 100 biggest selling albums in British history, the bestselling solo artist in UK history…
     
    Think on, eh?

  31. Braco says:

     muttley79 says:
    2 May, 2013 at 3:22 pm

    @Jiggsbro
     
    You make it sound like there is not much point in even trying to win!

    Why?

  32. HandandShrimp says:

    Taranaich

    Who knows, maybe that is what she meant. She might turn on the BT lot yet.

    There is something about this whole stramash that doesn’t quite gel.

  33. Cath says:

    “a neutral is more likely to swallow the smear, because the neutral is probably relying on the MSM for their information and trusting what the BBC (if not the newspapers) tell them.”
     
    I’m not so sure about that. There is a level of negativity, smear and propaganda where it’s hard not to see through it. At that point people tend to get angry. That or get depressed and switch off.

    Yes Scotland and the SNP really need to do more to try and make sure it’s the former not the latter, I think.
     

  34. muttley79 says:

    @Braco
     
    Cath has said what I was trying to get across.

  35. Braco says:

     
    Taranaich says:
     
    2 May, 2013 at 3:27 pm
     

    “It is just like Take That when Robbie left. It all fell apart… think on.”
     
    Oh yes, everything went terribly for Robbie when he left Take That: 70 million albums sold compared to Take That’s 45 million, the most BRIT awards of any artist in history with 17 to Take That’s 15 (9 of the latter after Robbie rejoined in the late 2000s), selling the most tickets in one day for any recording artist in history for his Close Encounters tour, the most ECHO awards of any artist with 10, voted the Greatest Artist of the Nineties by the UK Hall of Fame, six of his albums in the 100 biggest selling albums in British history, the bestselling solo artist in UK history…
     
    Think on, eh?

     
    Aye…. but he was rubbish though, wasn’t he ?  Or are you loving angels instead? FFS (smiley)

  36. Jamie Arriere says:

    If Ms Calman ever lampoons the Tories, Labour & the Greens, will somebody please post on here about it….until then I’ll avoid her like a recently-vacated cludgie. (Osborne & Cameron must be raging at being compared to the teacher in Charlie Brown)
     

  37. Mac says:

     
    The thing is, can the Hootsmon afford to be sued or prosecuted? 
     
    You get the feeling the paper is teetering on the brink. Possible first causality of the Calman War of words. 

  38. Braco says:

    muttley,
    Cath is, as usual correct (sickening isn’t it!) but Jiggs, to my mind, was simply pointing out what must be accepted and absorbed. The more realistically we survey the rock face before us, the less fear it holds and the more assured we are to scale it successfully.

    I would argue that it’s the lack of this attitude within The better NO camp that will end up doubling the value of each and every effort that we in YES exert.

    That’s just another reason we will win come 2014.

  39. Cath says:

    “I’ll avoid her like a recently-vacated cludgie.”
     
    VILE ABUSE!!! YOU NASTY, NASTY CYBERNAT YOU!
     
    Cath is, as usual correct (sickening isn’t it!)”
     
    I might just copy and paste that into my OU assessment for the questions I don’t understand.

  40. Jiggsbro says:

    There is a level of negativity, smear and propaganda where it’s hard not to see through it
     
    You and I see through it, but we’re hardly neutral, are we? Whereas a neutral, who ‘knows’ that the BBC is trustworthy, wouldn’t even be trying to see through it. They’d be swallowing it whole. They wouldn’t ask for the evidence, because the fact that the BBC covered it is all the evidence they need. There will be undecided voters – fairly few, admittedly, given the viewing figures – who watched Newsnicht and now ‘know’ that supporters of independence showered Susan Calman with a shit-storm of aggression because she was rude about SNP politicians. That none of those things is true is irrelevant to them. They know about them, even though they never happened. They don’t need to question them. If they were routinely questioning things, they’d be unlikely to be neutral. And if they start disbelieving the BBC’s accounts, it’s likely that they’ll just start disbelieving everyone‘s accounts: the sort of detachment from politics that’s common, in part, because of the perception that ‘all politicians lie’. They ‘get depressed and switch off’.

  41. scottish_skier says:

    JiggsBro: Unfortunately, a neutral is more likely to swallow the smear

    Nope. Smear by opponents is ineffective, particularly if it is – or appears to be – largely without base. Only a party/cause can damage itself though angering those it seeks the support of.

    That’s why we’re nearly 6 years into an SNP government and the last poll had them higher than they got in 2011.

    It’s why YesScotland should just keep remaining cool, calm and steady as she goes. Point out truthful bad points about BT (e.g. Talyor donation), but only if these are based on clear facts that the electorate can see for themselves.

    The current smearing of ‘nats’, if it has any effect, will be to boost YesScotland, particularly since the source of the smearing is not trusted by the majority of the electorate. There’s good evidence that is what is happening.

    Note for the BBC, according to TNS the other day, only 2 in 10 Scots trust senior BBC figures to tell the truth. And why should they – with respect to the referendum, the clue’s in the name.

    —-

    Oh, and we shall see today whether the Tory attempt to smear UKIP worked…

  42. Jimbo says:

    It looks extremely possible that this young woman may have been the victim of a completely fabricated scandal.

  43. Jiggsbro says:

    You make it sound like there is not much point in even trying to win!
     
    Hardly. I’m just saying it won’t be as easy as some people would like to think it will be. We see through the BS because we’re already committed to finding out, and spreading, the truth. The undecided voters – at least, a significant proportion of them – aren’t committed to finding out the truth. They want the truth spoon-fed to them by a trusted source. Unfortunately, for many that trusted source is the BBC (and to a lesser extent, their chosen newspaper). Which is why the current attempt to present both the Yes campaign and its cyberwarriors as untrustworthy is so dangerous.
     
    If we sit back and assume that the rest of the electorate will suddenly wake up and smell the BS, we’ll lose. We have to be the trusted source and we can’t do that by talking amongst ourselves on the internet or by marching against the BBC or by spamming ‘Yes’ leaflets. We can do that by talking directly to people – people for whom we are a trusted source – and giving them the facts. This campaign won’t be won in the MSM or in cyberspace. It will be won in pubs, clubs, workplaces, living rooms…wherever individual supporters of independence will be listened to and trusted, and converts made.

  44. Braco says:

    O/T.  Everyone!   
    Time is moving on and things are really hotting up.
    Majorbloodnock finally has his war paint on!
    “I have brought you shower to the ring, now dance as best you can!”
    DingDong.

  45. Robert Louis says:

    Got to agree completely with SS above.  As the FM pointed out to lamont today, the smearing and scare stories by Labour at the last two elections put them exactly where they are now, in opposition, with a reduced number of MSP’s.  The outcome with UKIP wil indeed be interesting.
     
    Aside, from all this, everyone here needs to keep gently passing on the positive message regarding Scottish independence.  People are not persuaded by, as Thatcher called them, ‘moaning minnies’, but rather by a clear open, scrutable positive case for independence.  No such case exists for the union, QED, the unionists will lose – provided we focus on our positive message.  I see much of what bitter together do, as merely baiting, in an attempt to drag the YES campaign down into the gutter with them, as they know they cannot win the argument any other way.
     
    We have a really, really strong compelling argument, and we need to focus on that, and not let the bitter together negativity distract us.  Time on twitter and facebook or the internet should be spent mostly talking about the positive case for independence, no matter what the discussion – positive trolling you might call it. 
     
    (Did I just quote Thatcher??????….scratches head..)

  46. Braco says:

    Cath,
    best not to mention that it was a Braco that said it though.

  47. Robert Louis says:

    jimbo,
     
    Fabricated scandal, faux outrage, falsified arguments for the union.  This truly is the modus operandi of the anti independence ‘Bitter together’ campaign.

  48. BlueTiles says:

    O/T I know a few people have mentioned this already but what is going on with the Better Together facebook page? Their ‘likes’ and ‘people talking about this’ have gone up by the thousands in the past week. I have my concerns that such a massive increase , this far out and with the guff they’ve been spouting, is pretty suspect.
    Anyone know anything about facebook manipulation? I suppose it goes hand-in-hand with the ‘impartial’ polls recently, trying to show more support than they actually have.
     

  49. Ananurhing says:

    Calman is certainly getting a level of publicity way beyond her talent. She sounds like yet another couthie Caledonian clown trying to ingratiate herself with a London audience by deprecating her fellow Scots. (No fruit please we’re Scottish) Yawn!
    Her delivery sounds straight out of the Krankie school of comedy. Now she’s greetin ‘cos she got her wee tartan toosh skelped. Diddums! And in this instance, we a’ kent her Faither. He wisnae funny either.

  50. Norsewarrior says:

    “We have a really, really strong compelling argument, and we need to focus on that, and not let the bitter together negativity distract us.  Time on twitter and facebook or the internet should be spent mostly talking about the positive case for independence, no matter what the discussion – positive trolling you might call it”

    I agree that the argument for independence is strong and that we need to focus on the positives and not indulge in negativity or fighting in the gutter. 

    But I’d advise against ‘positive trolling’ as you call it. By all means, occasionally promote the merits of independence on things like Twitter and FB, but I don’t think its a good idea to constantly push it into people’s faces regardless of what the discussion is about. 

    Many people just aren’t very interested in politics and the independence issue, constantly pushing it in their faces is more likely to just turn them off even more.

  51. Taranaich says:

    Who knows, maybe that is what she meant. She might turn on the BT lot yet.
     
    It’s quite possible she was referring to the rest of Take That falling apart, and implying the UK would fall apart without Scotland.
     
    Aye…. but he was rubbish though, wasn’t he ?  Or are you loving angels instead? FFS (smiley)
     
    It’s the least I could do: through it all, they offered me protection, a lot of love and affection, whether I was right or wrong.

  52. Cath says:

    “You and I see through it, but we’re hardly neutral, are we?”
     
    I was pretty much politically neutral a mere few years ago. It was the level of negativity and abuse towards the SNP that persuaded me they were worth voting for. To attract the level of ire from the establishment Salmond does, you have to be doing something very right. I was also just so irritated by the negativity I could never have voted Labour in 2011.

  53. Robert Louis says:

    Ananurhing
     
    I have to agree, this lassie is not really in my opinion, very funny.  A bit too formulaic (like many new ‘comedians’) for my liking.  Comdedians who give out abuse, but don’t like it given back are simply in the wrong job.

  54. Mac says:

     
    Surely this represents a huge opportunity for BT’s Truth Team.
     
    A Whodunittowhomayhavedunittosomebodyelsewedunnittknow.

  55. Jiggsbro says:

    Nope. Smear by opponents is ineffective, particularly if it is – or appears to be – largely without base
     
    Smears work. Ask Goebbels. They always have worked and they always will work, even if they only create doubt. They only really work on people who are predisposed to believe them, but they work. Neutrals are predisposed to believe them, particularly if they come from a source they trust. And they do trust the BBC. They may disbelieve them if they appear largely without base, but only if they become aware that they’re largely without base. You only need to look at Twitter to see how many people have accepted without question that the abuse and death threats actually happened. You only need to look at the Rev’s Twitter feed to see the result of questioning the basis of the claims.
     
    People may not trust senior BBC figures, but they don’t hear much from them. They hear from newsreaders, who they wouldn’t be watching if they didn’t trust. After Saville, people don’t trust the BBC management, but they still view the BBC itself as a trustworthy source for news. Because they ‘know’ that the BBC is impartial, just as we know it isn’t. Complaining about BBC bias simply has the effect of reinforcing the belief that they’re impartial, because everyone complains about their bias.
     
    That’s why we’re nearly 6 years into an SNP government and the last poll had them higher than they got in 2011.
     
    Odd. I thought that might be because their policies are popular, rather than because attempts to smear them have failed. Attempting to prove that a party hasn’t been affected by one factor in isolation, by referring to a statistic that reflects all factors, isn’t convincing, particularly when it ignores the type and quality of the attempted smears. It’s even less convincing when it chooses to ignore successful smears against other parties, in other places, at other times. Smear campaigns can work. That’s why they’ve been around as long as politics and why they’re still being used. They don’t always work (see ‘swiftboating’). They can produce a backlash. But they can also be devastatingly effective.
     
    “The influence of salient differentiating categories on smear acceptance was particularly pronounced among politically undecided individuals. Study 4 clarified that social category differences heighten smear acceptance, even if the salient category is semantically unrelated to the smearing label, showing that, approximately 1 year after the election, the salience of race amplified belief that Obama is a socialist among undecided people and McCain supporters. Taken together, these findings suggest that, at both implicit and explicit cognitive levels, social category differences and political allegiance contribute to acceptance of smears against political candidates.” – Kosloff, S., Greenberg, J., Schmader, T., Dechesne, M., & Weise, D. Smearing the opposition: Implicit and explicit stigmatiztion of the 2008 U.S. Presidential candidates and the current U.S. President.  Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 139, 383-398.

  56. theycan'tbeserious says:

    I would suspect that the background and politics of artists are checked by the bbc in order to meet their agenda and not give credence to the opposite…. So if they are on the telly not to represent independence they are there to undermine and degrade the Scot and the ability to determine their own future.

  57. YesYesYes says:

    The context of the independence debate is everything here. For example, the dominant UK position – the dominant ideology – is represented by those who are opposed to independence. No Scottish/British newspaper or broadcaster is promoting the cause of independence, all are, without exception, either explicitly or implicitly, fully behind the union. Similarly, the full weight of all the British political parties and the resources of the British state are being mobilised to defeat independence. On top of that, on a daily basis, a procession of British-oriented business leaders, trade union leaders, academics etc are wheeled out in the attempt to discredit the cause of independence.
     
    It’s clear, then, what the ‘establishment’ position is. Any genuine political satirist – and any self-respecting satirist challenges the establishment position – would have a field day with this. But, instead, Susan Calman chooses to play it safe and conservative by jumping on the British anti-independence bandwagon, and confirming the prejudices of most people in her audience. In the context of the independence referendum, this wasn’t satire, this was sycophancy. Whatever the context, there’s always something distasteful when we witness any individual attempting to ingratiate themselves with a dominant group, i.e. brown-nosing.
     
    Had Susan Calman begun her routine by saying something like, ‘Ah yes, the independence referendum. We can vote Yes and govern ourselves forever or vote No and continue to be governed by a bunch of merciless, millionaire Tory toffs. Hmmm, you have to admit, that’s a tough one’, that would have been a half-decent, though quite benign, starting line for a political satire routine. But it might also have ended her career, at least down south, and we must assume that she has an instinct for self-preservation here. That raises the question of context again. For example, when Scotland does become independent, it will be interesting to see how Susan Calman’s comedy routine changes.
     
    Yesterday, Doug Daniel raised some interesting questions in a post about this issue, citing Alan Partridge as a reference point – the episode where Alan begins his meeting with two Irish TV producers by saying to them: ‘So, what’s de big oidea then?’ and gets himself into trouble over Bloody Sunday. On reading his post, the first question that struck me was, when was the last time that you heard Dara O’Briain or Ed Byrne recruit British stereotypes about the Irish to ridicule Ireland? I’ve heard both of them ridicule the British when the British use these stereotypes against the Irish, but I’ve never heard O’Briain or Byrne use them themselves to get laughs out of an English audience.
     
    Maybe there’s an important lesson for us here. The time to judge how ‘nationalist’ we Scots are isn’t before we become independent but after.

  58. Chic McGregor says:

    Jimbo says:
    2 May, 2013 at 4:19 pm

    It looks extremely possible that this young woman may have been the victim of a completely fabricated scandal.
     
    Yep, I agree, but the question is why?  Is it just another piece of nasty nat myth building, or is it a smokescreen for something else? Like the Obama’s cyber crew’s possible data mining activities suggested previously?  Or something else.
     
    Always a suspicion when the great unionist cabal goes to such lengths to make a mountain out of a molehill.

  59. Robert Louis says:

    Jiggsbro,
     
    Did Goebbels not just really build upon anti-semitisim which already existed across Europe, including within the UK?  It wasn’t something he personally created as a smear.

  60. Mac says:

     
    It would appear that Ms Calman has a phantom FaceBook page. We were told the real one had been closed down.
     
    Fictional CyberNat blogger, imaginary friends, non-existent death threats and now a phantom FaceBook page. It is all getting a bit spooky, virtually speaking.

  61. Braco says:

    Jiggs,
    I agree but would add one point. “The undecided voters – at least, a significant proportion of them – aren’t committed [yet] to finding out the truth.”
    When they come to the debate seriously, in the last 16 weeks as per every other political decision, they will be shocked and angered at the low level lies and distortions they have been drip fed by previously trusted brands.

    SS,
    I can’t help but agree with your analysis here too but I just don’t see how it is mutually exclusive to Jiggsborro’s. Not that I would want to get in the way of a good pub fight (especially among brothers!) fight,fight,fight…………smiley

  62. Alex Grant says:

    Ms Calman may not have intended to generate so much publicity (?) but rest assured she will be happy about what has happened. As already stated she sees her future as the token Jock slagging off her own country with those south of the border lapping it up.This always goes down well. She has exploited this publicity to the maximum

  63. Braco says:

    Jiggs,
    This is (hopefully) the end game for Scots independence. How important was Goebbels in stopping the Russians at the Gates? Every weapon has it’s time and smear is past it’s sell by date and is now only going to poison our opponents. It already is.

    When you construct an argument for independence to the nuetral, how much relies upon the many proven historic lies and disinformation told by the UK/BBC MSM? Christ it’s most of my schtic!
     

  64. Lianachan says:

    I’ve just spent a couple of minutes refreshing the home page of the Scotsman to see how their poll is coming along.
     
    Currently it’s at 
    Yes – 2169 
    No – 14168
     
    The rates that the totals are increasing is pretty suspicious.  YES was on 2168 when I started looking, and although I can’t remember what NO was on I do remember that it was less than 14100.  Do people really vote NO on that poll at a rate of what must be close to one a second?
     
    Be interesting to see what the values are by the time anybody goes to have a look.

  65. Braco says:

    Oh god Taranaich, once again I have been so wrong ! Now I know that life won’t break me.

    Send “Angels” Ringtone to your Cell
     
    Thanks again min!

  66. Westie7 says:

    BlueTiles says:
    2 May, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    O/T I know a few people have mentioned this already but what is going on with the Better Together facebook page?
     
    You took the words right out of my mouth. would be interesting to see trend data if anybody has been keeping tabs. Wouldnt put it past a bunch of activists being instructed to each create phoney accounts have spread the likes.
     
    As for wether or not the Scotsman poll is legit or not… despite the battle against the MSM yes should still be doing better, alot better, and Ive told them that!

  67. scottish_skier says:

    @westie
    I have the data. It’s both pathetic and hilarious at the same time. Suffice to say BT are generating equal to or more interest in YesScotland while attempting to ‘artificially’ boost their own numbers. Which I imagine was not the aim ;-)

    To confirm, if anyone has got one of their spam messages, tell me the date received.  I’d like to know when these were sent.

    Note that YesScotland is far stronger when you remove the ‘manufactured’ likes. Far stronger. You can’t manufacture popularity, other than in your own head that is.

  68. Cath says:

    There was a thread on one of the Yes pages the other day where people were discussing number of BT “likes” compared with the number of their friends who’d liked Yes and BT. It was very revealing.
     
    My own comparison is yes: 32 No: 2
     
    Bearing in mind many of my friends have been met through Yes campaigning, that seems unfair though. So if I take out everyone met through Yes, the ratio goes down to a mere 16:2
     
    Those kind of ratios seemed common.
     

  69. Westie7 says:

    @Scottish Skier
     
    In my circle/Location I havent heard of anybody getting any unsolicited dross from BT.
    Dont know if thats something to do with being in Eck’s back yard. What we do have here though is a whole bunch of folk still stuck on the “We cannae afford it tag line” which should have been run over long time ago

  70. AnneDon says:

    Where was the satire?

  71. john king says:

    scotsman vote as of 19.30pm yes 2191 no 14.945

  72. ianbrotherhood says:

    When Private Aye comes out it’ll have a regular column called ‘Calmanballs’.

  73. YesYesYes says:

    @Ian Brotherhood,
     
    I like it.
     
    The Rev could get the ball rolling here. Every time WoS runs a story about the latest greetin-faced unionist who throws their rattle oot the pram because of ‘cybernat bullies’, give the article the title ‘Calmanballs’.

  74. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “The Rev could get the ball rolling here. Every time WoS runs a story about the latest greetin-faced unionist who throws their rattle oot the pram because of ‘cybernat bullies’, give the article the title ‘Calmanballs’.”

    [scurries off to look for good-quality image]

  75. HighlandMartin says:

    Hahaha that made me chuckle.  Could have a spoof blogger who allegedly will threaten to kill some random unionist like the gunman in The Jerk. ‘ You random bastard’ as he flicks through the bbc entertainment comedy booking book.
     

  76. HighlandMartin says:

    for the uninitiated….
     

  77. Mac says:

    Calmanballs, brilliant.
     
    I see Kaye Adams has tweeted her support, sure sign that the whole thing is all going pear shaped at BBC Scotland.

  78. YesYesYes says:

    Result! Ian Brotherhood should get the credit for inspiring this, though.
     
     @HighhlandMartin,
     
    “Could have a spoof blogger who allegedly will kill some random unionist like the gunman in The Jerk. ‘ You random bastard’ as he flicks through the bbc entertainment comedy booking book”.
     
    We might need to slow down a bit here. I mean, can you imagine how the Scotsman and the ‘Truth’ Team would spin the story if the Rev went with that. On second thoughts…
     

  79. scottish_skier says:

    JB: Odd. I thought that might be because their [SNP] policies are popular, 
    Nail on head.
    Hence smear ineffective.
    I’ll say it again. Only a party/cause can bring itself down.
    Governments fall because they f-up. Parties are not elected because voters don’t like what they hear from them. MPs are forced to resign for lying, not because they’ve been accused of it…
    No amount of smear will change things significantly. In the short term yes, a little, but only to create not doubt, but question. These are two very different things. If you sow doubt in someone malevolently and they catch you out because they question that, woe betide you.

  80. YesYesYes says:

    I was going to ask a serious question about whether anyone had heard the results of any exit polls of the council elections in England tonight, then I remembered that there aren’t any exit polls. So the only other question about the elections I can think of is this: Does anyone give a flying fanny about the council election results in England tonight? No. Me neither. After all, we all know that it will be another successful night for Better Together’s rabid right-wing, the usual culprits, UKIP, the BNP and the  Labour Party.

  81. HandandShrimp says:

    Yesetc
     
    My prediction is that 66% will elect to stay at home.

  82. Hetty says:

    read this re facebook, i feel so daft now…..
    Yes I think I might know why the Bt lot has got thousands of likes on fb. When I went onto my computer I last week I saw that my young son had left his fb page on! Well I wasn’t prying honest but saw an ADVERT from the BT lot, it looked like a piece fom the YES side no kidding, I accidentally liked,urge sorry I then tried to ‘unlike’ when i realised it was a huge con but it totally disappeared from his fb page!! Are they targeting young people who like stupid me did not look at it properly…I can’t remember what it said but was obviouly designed to completely deceive and con people then disappear how I don’t know. They will try absolutely anything quite clearly. I know how utterly crazy is that…Facebook has started having ads but I am sure they were disabled on my sons fb account.  Sorrrrrryyyyy…..of course for those who don’t know fb, it’s normal to get posts for things u have signed up for ie I get them from the yes campaign, 

  83. Davy says:

    I have just heard ‘Douglas Alexander’ going on about this Calman garbage on radio Scotland, and guess what the overlying theme was ???? Yep its all Alex salmonds fault, ofcourse their was no nationalist on to counter that little prat’s prattling, and the presenter was not exactly giving him a hard time about it.
    It certainly made me think very hard about the independence question and the result is I want independence even more than ever before, just to make sure Scotland does not have to listen to lying two-faced prats like him.
     
    Vote Yes, Vote Scotland.

  84. Mac says:

    The Scotsman back-pedaling fast in today’s edition; 
     
    “The row comes after comedian Susan Calman said she had received a “sh*tstorm of aggression” after she satirised the referendum on the BBC’s News Quiz last week.
    Well a real “sh*tstorm” has come after the imaginary “sh*tstorm” because Susan Calman has left BBC Scotland in the “sh*t” by refusing to come onto Newsnight Scotland to explain her comments. It was left to poor old Gordon Brewer to repeat her allegations all on his own. 

  85. Mac says:

    Davy
     
    BBC Scotland are seriously out on a limb on this one. They have featured this story 4 times now and we are no further forward with regard finding any evidence supporting the allegations of abuse and death threats.
     
    What we do know is that Nicola Sturgeon has been sent death threats on Twitter, a posting on the No campaign’s Facebook page talked about firing bullets into SNP leaders, that appalling remarks about Alex Salmond’s dad were made on a Labour Party website, and that Labour politicians have constantly abused Alex Salmond at Westminster and Holyrood. 

     
    Double standards doesn’t even come close in describing the responses to real death threats and imaginary ones. 

  86. Desimond says:

    I really hope poor upset Susan has been cheered up seeing any stats such as #Calman now Trending. No doubt a residency on the Late Review awaits with McConnell pin up Kirsty saying “Sooooooo Susaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnn…. Ken Loach’s latest…uplifting reality or just outdated Socialist tosh?…more Grenache?’

  87. Davy says:

    “Mac”,
             If this load of crap puts another nail into the BBC Scotland’s coffin I will be very pleased. Their continuious one-sided reporting makes me want to boak, Scotland deserves better from our so-called state broadcaster.
     
    After watching yesterdays FMQ-time and seeing the three unionist numpty leaders spout nothing constructive about how to improve our country and society or even say to the Scottish government we believe this is a better way to improve the governence of Scotland.
     
    Instead all we had was lies, spin, negativity and manufactured sound bites, their was not one question or even one part of a question that was for the betterment of Scotland. It was’nt scottish cringe on show it was more like scottish shame. God only knows what other people think of our country when they see the BBC & MSM followed by all the unionist parties do nothing but run down their own country.
     
    Scotland deserves better, Scotland deserves people who will promote the positive and enthusiastic nature of our society, Scotland needs you to vote YES.
     
    SAOR ALBA.

  88. Albanac says:

    Ye canny make it up!
     
    Ms Calman was in London last night recording “Would I Lie To You?” according to her agent @Vivienneclore

  89. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Ms Calman was in London last night recording “Would I Lie To You?” according to her agent @Vivienneclore”

    Awesome spot, duly pinched :)

  90. Ericmac says:

    @Robert Louise ‘Never wrestle with a pig.  You’ll both get dirty, but the pig will like it.’

  91. If you fancy a giggle:
    Comic Trumps Academic in “Evil Cybernat” Publicity Stunts
    http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/comic-trumps-academic-in-evil-cybernat.html



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