The pessimist
It’s come awfully late, but we’ve finally got an answer to a question people have been asking Jim Murphy since last December.
In an interview with the BBC’s Gary Robertson this morning, the Scottish Labour regional manager told listeners that should he win the East Renfrewshire seat in next month’s election, he’d stay in the job for the full five-year term, but would also stand for election as a Holyrood MSP in 2016.
(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 29 April 2015)
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And that raises more questions than it answers.
Scottish Labour have for many years been very clear about their opposition to people being MPs and MSPs at the same time (known as “dual mandate” or “double-jobbing”).
That comment was from 2009, following the publication of the UK government’s Kelly Report which recommended a ban on anyone holding seats at both Westminster and any of the devolved parliaments.
But Labour have taken a strong stance on it much more recently too.
Indeed, the party actually tried to pass a bill outlawing the practice just two months ago, without even waiting to become the government, but was defeated. When it lost the vote, “Labour said it would honour its commitment and amend its own standing orders to ensure the ban applied to its candidates and MPs.”
Being the First Minister (we know, but indulge him for the sake of argument) would be a second job which would far more than double Jim Murphy’s MP salary. Indeed, the FM’s position is the most highly-rewarded in UK politics, paying slightly more than even the Prime Minister and comfortably more than twice an MP’s basic wage, so if Jim Murphy was to somehow win the 2016 election his pay would TRIPLE overnight.
Back in December Murphy had said the idea of a dual mandate was “not something I’m attracted to”, but something would seem to have changed his mind since then. We’re sure it’s not something as base as the filthy lucre, and perish the thought that Mr Murphy would abandon a principle for political expediency, so the only explanation we can think of is that he’s is absolutely certain the issue will never arise.
Whether he thinks it’s the Westminster seat or the Holyrood one that Jim thinks he’s got no chance of winning, or both, is something we can only speculate about.
ffg.
Jim M, as well as other prominent (ex) Labour MP’s will almost definitely be elected to Holyrood via the list system. This could be a pain, but could uktimately ‘strengthen’ Holyrood
Of course Jim Murphy will never abandon his principles…
(You have to actually HAVE principles before you can abandon them!)
If Murphy is top of one of Labour’s lists for 2016 then he is pretty much guaranteed to get into Holyrood, so that’s a given provided Labour allow constituency candidates onto the list (and they can hardly afford not to).
The announcement that he would serve the full five years at Westminister is just intented to scrape a few more votes together to keep his seat. If he succeeds then he has some breathing space to decide what to do next. The easy obvious answer would be to resign as Scottish leader as a “principled response” to their crushing failure. He can then lick his wounds at Westminster till an ungrateful Scotland comes to its senses (as Labour still seems to assume will happen – next time round).
Might just be the thought of having to get any job at all after next week. Sure he’ll engineer a place on the regional list if he can’t find a seat next year. But FM looks as unlikely as being MP for East Ren.
May his benefits be sanctioned in the intervening 12 months.
Jim has London real estate portfolio to pay for !
Beware, Strathclyde University. You may be receiving an application from an ex-student fairly soon – someone who scived his way through 9 years at uni and came out with nothing.
Here we go again, FLIP – FLOP – FLIP – FLOP. Where will it end?
Auld Rock
unfortunately I’m working long term in India/ Kuwait..o if only I could hear, sense, his lying squirm, This bastard.
“Whether he thinks it’s the Westminster seat or the Holyrood one that Jim thinks he’s got no chance of winning, or both, is something we can only speculate about.”
He may be hopeful of holding onto his own seat but if Labour go from 40 seats to less than 10 next week it would be hard to imagine that he could remain as branch manager. In which case he won’t be running for Holyrood at all next year.
And this is the real reason ever Slabberite campaigned against independence. Save their troughs.
Can’t believe Labour would stand on the principle of no second jobs while one of its senior candidates is publicly advocating the exact opposite.
What next, prominent Labour critics of tax avoidance benefiting from offshore tax havens?
Jim’s principles have always been Marxist principles – Groucho’s rather than Karl’s, mind you.
Strengthen Holyrood? Jim Murphy’s presence would not be an asset to any institution. He would lower the tone at a Liars’ Convention.
When I was seven I wanted to be a footballer, an artist and a deep sea diver; all at the same time.
Good to see a young man like Murphy with similar ambition ……… snigger, snigger
Thought Jim was going to tell his constituents first or did he tell them all to listen to GMS this morning.
Rev, is the FM’s salary the highest in the country not just a temporary situation until the 11% increase for WM kicks in?
Stu .. did you pick up on Murphy on GMS ? …
“Litany of SNP candidates, up and down the country, not fit to be candidates”
they should be named, surely.
I’m guessing that Murphy must be very out of favour with the London (London) branch of Labour. His career is in a nosedive.
What I find astounding is the fact that he rose so high to ministerial material at Westminster. I guess that fact alone displays the lack of talent in the Labour gene pool.
He’s in self preservation mode at the moment. I wonder if we will see a Road to Damascus event in Murphy’s career after May 7th.
Will he do a Galloway and shed his skin to reveal a born again Nat of some hue?
It wouldn’t surprise me.
Personally I would not like to see Murphy, or any of the other Labour troughers at Holyrood. They would have only one intention and that would be to bring the parliament down.
His masters, in London, will say otherwise.
Perhaps he will take one of his parliamentary jobs on a zero hours contract.
Non-exploitative, of course.
All MP’s are on zero hours contracts. That is why they don’t do something about them. Problem is that they get paid whether they work or not; presumably they think it is the same for everyone
WOW!
Oor wee Jiminey Cricket has finally, after month’s and month’s of questioning, come out of his wee box and admitted that he will sit the full five years at Westminster as well as standing for Holyrood.
I wonder what has changed his wee mind about answering this question … oh that’s right he must have told his constituents first. After all as we all know he would tell his constituents first.
I am now eagerly looking forward to all his constituents openly thanking oor Jim for informing them first about his future political plans. 😀
So he was going to tell his constituents first and here we have at least one of his constituents finding out on WoS. There’s an irony in there somewhere!
@Fergus Mac “Strengthen Holyrood?”
Absolutely, what do people think they’re getting booted out in the first place for… JEEZ
The sheer gall of this man knows no end.
Cheered myself up watching Looney Tunes.
One of the characters is Yosemite Sam.He is described as being a liar and can not accept rebuke, with a nasty temper.MMM
Also still laughing after watching “stoker’s” “Caption generator 37342/labour 2015
Murphy is like a wart fart in a white suit
Slugger Slim Jim Murphy : On Scotlands calamity –
“I could’a bin somebody; I wuz a contendah! ”
“Nah Jim – Wit’ yor record ya neva reely wuz bud ! “
AS predicted,
FUD wi an F, on K wi an E this morning was a total embarrassment this morning.
He sounds like a tourist who cannot speak the language when travelling abroad,
Just shout LOUDER so you will be understood.
Well FUD it is not working.
Gary
And what exactly were they prominant for?
folk would have to have very short memory loss
Marie clark says:
29 April, 2015 at 2:42 pm
Personally I would not like to see Murphy, or any of the other Labour troughers at Holyrood. They would have only one intention and that would be to bring the parliament down.
That’s Phase 2, Marie:
1) May 2014: Wipe out as many corrupt Red Tories as possible.
2) May 2015: Make sure they don’t slip in to contaminate Holyrood.
If Phase 1 goes according to plan, there will be quite a few unemployed, Red Tory ex-MPs desperate to get into Holyrood. Their past deeds need to be exposed. That is where Project Red may come in handy.
Under the Smith Commission “proposals”, the Scottish Parliament would have the power to pass laws on disqualifications on people being an MSP. I’d like to see them make anyone who is a sitting MP, member of the House of Lords or councillor ineligible to be an MSP as soon as possible.
Even quicker than that if Murphy manages to cling on as an MP!
Two sets of expenses – Murphy Heaven.
@ Luigi and Marie Clark
Well that is what they say that the SNP will do at Westminster. People are apt to judge others by their own standards and so I conclude that you are correct in your characterisation of their likely behaviour in Holyrood.
Jim will be lucky to still be in charge of the North British Branch come the 2016 elections.
Can’t get the clip to play. Tried Chrome and Firefox but not playing.
I’m assuming everyone else hears it OK. so will try a reboot.
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What SMurph wants and what he GETS are two entirely different things.
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Ooops 2015 and 2016 – apologies!
I can’t play it either, Capella.
Tamson says @2.35
“Jim’s principles have always been Marxist principles – Groucho’s rather than Karl’s, mind you.”
🙂
He’s just hedging his bets. If he loses his Westminster seat, then he will shoe himself into a labour safe seat for Holyrood. Wait a minute, he hasn’t quite thought this one through, has he?
Looks as though a list seat would be his only realistic opportunity, but up to that point Jimbo, you’ll be entitled to £62 weekly from your local Job Centre. Don’t get stuck in traffic on your way to your appointment or your money will be sanctioned.
O/T
Apologies for always signing off with my name,
Force of habit.
Thanks Fiona. Won’t play on my tablet either so must be something wrong with the upload. STU.??
No matter, the articles spell it out. Labour will say whatever it takes and if you don’t like these principles they have another set in their pocket.
From where Murphy stands, this is simple. Manufacture the Postal Votes results in East Renfrewshire, and get into Holyrood on a list vote next year.
Add on what the Better Together team have still to spring on the East Ren demographic via the BBC and the DR, and then the 29% undecideds, and hey, you have JM in Westminster with a tiny majority for 5 years and a racing certainty for Holyrood in 2016.
Anyone who thinks that is not do-able, has probably forgotten Indy14.
Gotta laugh my effin heid aff at the latest leaflet from Jardine and the Libs.
Bottom right (A2 folded) we have a picture of (looks like Tory Colin Clark) wi gaffer tape across his mooth wi the tagline;
“GAGGED”
Followed by;
“Any SNP MP elected in May will be gagged. They will not be allowed to speak up for local people. Instead they will be forced to obey party bosses.”
Doesn’t say which party bosses will be doing the gagging though.
Shame the authours of this latest shreiking leaflet couldn’t be gagged by Christine Jardine and Malcolm Bruce eh?
Thick as sh1te in a bottle.
Can’t listen to creepy Jim right now but if polls are even remotely acurate in his Scotland region, he has got to resign next week. Imagine how hard Jo jo Lamont is laughing right now.
Possible careers for Creepy Morphy? Door stop, penis model, that’s it really.
But look at the difficulties for expenses? Can you claim for your Scottish home for Holyrood because you reside in London? Can you get Irn Bru on two lots of claims? Do you need receipts? Its a nightmare.
Well, if he doesn’t get the WM seat, Jim can’t remain as leader of the Scottish branch, so why would he be put forward as potential FM? Quite apart from the fact nobody in Labour would want him to be, since he would probably sink the Holyrood labour vote too.
Most likely there’ll be another branch-manager vote, Neil Findlay gets it (like he should have last time) and then Nicola continues to be FM next year anyway.
He is doing a good job of getting voted out of all posts, along with his associates. A Unionist free Scotland.
I wouldn’t worry about Labour List MSPs for the obvious reason that many ex-MPs will end up in the HOL and those who don’t trying to get into Holyrood are only going to split the Branch Office right down the middle.
The present lot are not going to just stand by without a fight.
He must be getting worried. Friends in London have told me he did a pre election deal with Miliband. He never intended to stand in Holyrood. If he could deliver 30 plus saets in the Westminster election Miliband would call him back….the Nation needs him… and offer him Deputy PM job.
Robert Peffers says:
29 April, 2015 at 3:30 pm
I wouldn’t worry about Labour List MSPs for the obvious reason that many ex-MPs will end up in the HOL and those who don’t trying to get into Holyrood are only going to split the Branch Office right down the middle.
The present lot are not going to just stand by without a fight.
Yep, civil war looms. I would hate to see even one ex MP make it onto the list though. Contamination is to be avoided at all costs. IMO, in 2016, Project Red might just provide some very useful ammo beyond the WoS community.
I havesame problem as others with the track not playing. I was going to mention it in my last post but decided against it, mainly cause I’m not that certain that listening to this boring, whispering, shouty man at ANY time does my health much good. 😀
Luigi writes, “Yep, civil war looms.” Is that a threat?
manandboy –
I completely agree. Remember the joyful crowds in the days before the referendum? Hmmm … Let’s take absolutely nothing for granted. What the establishment wants, the establishment will make sure it gets.
Wow Murph the mouthpiece .
I doubt very nuch he will be standing for anything if the polls are to be believed. Surely the guys a gonner. hell Jola was a pain but never lost the support like he has.
Murphy’s World is a place were he is worshipped and adored. Sadly it’s a long way from Scotland. ( Second turning on the right after never never land.. I think 🙂 )
Murphy has principles for any occasion. Take your pick.
Internal strife inside the Labour Party in Scotland is already noticeable with everyone’s election budgets stripped to spend on the high profile candidates.
Poor Jim, nae seat, nae income, nae mates.
Lesley-Anne
I think the problem us that the clip is 1 second long. Now I know JM is a fast talker but that is ridiculous!
scav says:
Well, if he doesn’t get the WM seat, Jim can’t remain as leader of the Scottish branch, so why would he be put forward as potential FM? Quite apart from the fact nobody in Labour would want him to be, since he would probably sink the Holyrood labour vote too.
You are of course correct in what you say scav in reference to oor Jiminey Cricket not being able to stay on as branch manager after May 7th when he is voted out of Westminster. However, and it is a mega HOWEVER here, you must always remember that we are are discussing Labour in Scotland here and as everyone knows Labour in Scotland are a law unto themselves.
Firstly always remember that under the Labour party rules it is illegal for ANY party member to actively canvass or support a member of any other party. This raises the question about what oor wee Jim is doing about all the Labour members currently supporting a Tory or Lib Dem candidate for election. Under Labour party rules they must be kicked out of the party … but have they? In a word NO. Why would they … THEY are Labour THEY do what they like when they like to whoev er they like! 😉
Secondly. As we know to be the branch manager the *ahem* applicant has to be either an M.P. or M.S.P. Now when oor wee Jimmy is deselected on May 7th he no longer is an M.P. Under Labour’s own rules he can not therefore remain as their leader. However, Murphy being Murphy, who has already seen a lawyer about remaining leader if no longer an M.P. apparently, will no doubt come out with some obscure irrational reasoning about he is still the best man to save Labour. 😀
Mr. Murphy is taking preventative action in that he is not going to carry the full political can for what happens on 7th May
Looking at that report card website Jim wasn’t a big attender at Westminster so I don’t suppose it will make a lot of difference (unless Ed only has a very slim working majority along with other parties in which case he will be down there every time Labour need a vote through).
What kind of person thinks he has a moral right to a post when the majority of the electorate don’t vote for him to be in any post at all?
Oh yeah. Delusional megalomaniac.
Robert Peffers says “The present lot are not going to just stand by without a fight”
Really? Why wouldn’t they? They have forgotten how to fight – for anything really, which is why we have such a dire pretend opposition in Holyrood.
They all chant whatever same auld sang coming from their Westminster bosses, and provide no challenge to the Scottish government party at all. I can’t see the Westminster sang suddenly saying “Some of you step down and let Jim Murphy,Margrit Curran and some of the Alexanders have your seat”.
We had our GE here in Finland 10 days ago. A very boring and civilised affair compared to what’s going on over there, what with the apparent seismic shift and the establishment, MSM & BBC going apeshit.
The recent poll figures are just insane. SNP at 54%, poised to take ALL 59 seats?!?!
I don’t think that’s going to happen. There are still a lot of undecided, vulnerable voters and Labour will get their postal vote out. Gordy the dinosaur is being wheeled out, the MSM&BBC will throw a shitstorm of fear, smear, confusion and lies.
SNP will have to keep calm and carry on positive campaigning on the ground, fight hard for every single vote. Get people out and go and actually vote on the day, not think it’s in the bag.
Here, the Centre Party was leading the polls with 24.9%. On the day they achieved only 21.1%. Still the largest party, though – we have PR and currently 8 different parties in Parliament so it’s a more even spread. The Greens did well, 8.5% and 15 seats in the 200-member Parliament. 🙂
I continued my proud tradition of voting for someone who didn’t get in (my candidate has never made it) but I know that my vote counted towards the Green list and helped to elect Green MPs in my constituency. (We have no FPTP single-member constituencies but larger, multi-member ones, and the voters decide the ranking on the party list, not parties, a so-called “open list” d’Hondt system.)
SNP’s best ever result was 11 MPs. I’m 100% confident Scottish voters can beat that result this time around. 😀
Will Podmore says:
29 April, 2015 at 3:39 pm
Luigi writes, “Yep, civil war looms.” Is that a threat?
You know fine well that I was referring to possible internal strife in the Labour party, and not something else.
Ah, but New Labour Party rules means that, if one of their MPs fails to become elected this year, they cannot go for MSP. New Labour chose their MSP candidates all the way back in January 2014, two and a half years before the Holyrood election:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/burning-the-lifeboats/
There’ll be no reprieve for anyone in New Labour in Holyrood: they have to win here, or they’re gone for good.
LOOK, EVERYONE! LOOK OVER THERE! I THINK IT’S SUPERMAN!
*quietly actually uploads audio clip*
SORRY, MY MISTAKE. JUST A BIRD OR A PLANE.
Just a thought, if after May the 7th, their are no labour MP’s in Scotland or just the one or two, and Jim Murphy BA-Politics (failed)is no longer head of the scottish branch office.
Would the existing labour MSP’s decide enough was enough with London control, and decide to go independent as a fully Scottish labour party, and is it not possible that they would then call for Scottish Independence in their 2016 manifesto.
Because once they get hammered next week, what option do they have left not to end up in the same position next year.
Just heard on the radio the latest poll is (SNP 54%) (labour 20%).
I’m looking forward to a series of articles on Wings some time in the future. A compilation of “Where are they now?” stories about the fortunes of former S Labour MP`s
The sad reality is that many of them will have made enough cash out of the system that they wont have very much to worry about. That and the inevitable “consultancies”
@ Will Podmore, time you grew up!
It’s all going tits-up for Murphy and as the ineffectual Ken MacKintosh is unlikely to oblige, it looks like Murphy will end up joining the ermine-vermin in the Lords.
Lord Murphy of…….?
BUT trying to remember if Murphy uttered either 4 or 5 straight lies and misrepresentations this morning on prime-time radio – is it worth highlighting his public fibs?
I just imagined a future where Creepy gets to be FM.
Following an apocalyptic virus all the politicians, and all the people of Scotland are no more. Arriving on a clattering bicycle with poorly inflated tyres a badly shaved gangly character arrives at Holyrood big house. Navigating through the erratically abandoned vehicles in the city has become easier. The wild dogs no longer pay attention. Rolling down the hill he lifts on the pedals, swings his leg over the rear tyre and gracefully dismounts. Chaining the wheel to the rack he pauses and considers the futility of his action.
A gust of wind presses an old piece of newsprint to his grubby trouser leg. He frees it and watches it swirl in the corner. A little litter tornado he thought undoing the bicycle clips and unclipping the cycle helmet.
Striding past the empty reception desk he loudly says ‘Good morning’.
The time is 1.15 PM.
He creeps behind the desk sits in the chair and takes out the peaked cap from his day-pack. It was a lucky find, lying in a doorway a few streets away, a bit chewed but just the right size.
Pulling the cap down on his large forehead he positions the seat and quickly arranges a book on the desk, pausing he changes plan and picks up a pen, ok, ready. Looking over the desk he quietly says ‘Morning First Minister’ and pretends to write something and answer the phone.
That was good he thought. He opened the top drawer. Tippex might be useful. He chucked the other bits and pieces behind him and carefully placed the hat in the drawer.
Walking on into the empty building he smiled, it’ll be even better tomorrow he thought..
Jim leading Slabber for Hollyrood, How does the list system work, Does the Slabber party need to be wiped out of Hollyrood too. No members no list surely.
Tamson at 2.35
“Jim’s principles have always been Marxist principles – Groucho’s rather than Karl’s, mind you.”
I enjoyed that! (sniggers into hand)
Question, from a London Labour standpoint …. who carries the can for their imminent defeat in Scotland?
It now looks like it will be carnage on an epic scale. This will happen at the same time as they improve their position in rUK from 2010.
HQ will want someones head on the chopping block!
Prime candidate to take the fall will be Murphy, whether or not he keeps his seat.
If he is elected, I predict he will become a quiet backbencher. He will lose the leadership and will be kept away from Holyrood and considered toxic! The campaign to prevent the same happening in 2016 will begin almost immediately and Murphy will not be part of it.
Katy Clark was at the door earlier. In the sixteen years I’ve been here, with her constituency office just at the top of the road, it’s the first time I’ve ever clapped eyes on her in Stevenston.
The conversation was civil, and very brief, but nice of her to go around the doors saying cheerio all the same…
As if by magic – the clip now plays!!!
I think it was superman after all.
O/T Sorry.
Scottish Fire and Rescue Service tax bill ‘costing 350 ..
news.stv.tv/scotland/318757-scottish-fire-and-rescue-service-tax-bill-cost…
This is another reason we must get as many SNP MPs at Wesminster.
I think if Jim Murphy wins his seat he will go back to Westminster look for a ministerial job and as quietly as he can stand down from being “Scottish Leader”. He has to keep saying he will stand as FM at present but must know that’s never going to happen. He will have lost all credibility in Scotland with the disappearance of most of the Scottish Labour MPs and even the love-in he has with the Scottish journos must be coming to an end.
People talking here about Murphy easing himself into an MSP seat via the list. Do you really see Miliband, who already disliked him, allowing Murphy to continue as branch manager and be the Labour candidate for Firs Minister after the car crash of a GE campaign which he’s been at the wheel of? No, neither do I. And don’t forget the knives Murphy’s slipped into Labour backs over the years – ie he has a lot of enemies in the party, and scores will be settled in the immediate aftermath of the debacle looming on 8 May.
O/T but this image from the Telegraph is worth a look.
Ruth baby likes the big gun!
Enjoy
https://archive.is/7UTBp
Labour (North British Office)
Standing order:
Would the last person to leave the building please put out the lights.
(The ‘Lecky bills due an’ we huvnae a shillin’ fer ra meter.)
@ Robert Kerr
Cruel! But Ruth is an ex TA person is she not? Probably loves uniforms and all things bossy.
Fred – come on. Mr Podmore is only treating us to his sophisticated wit. We don’t have such things up here!
Did not see Clark Kent but I did see Ken Macintosh MSP the loser to Johann Lamont in 2011 and he looked happier than Mr Happy at just the time the latest polls show Labour going down the stank!
So not everyone in Scottish Labour is unhappy with Jim Murphy!
Talking of Clark Kent,I see the mild mannered SNP candidate for East Lothian one George Kerevan getting a doing on the front page of the Daily Mail. They called him a hooligan but before I could read the rest of the story Aldi’s security guard gave me the “look”
heedtracker says:
Possible careers for Creepy Morphy? Door stop, penis model, that’s it really.
Fitba filum starring in “A Shot at Glory II”? After all I hear Ally McCoist is free too… That way Sevco could win the cup again too!
@quarmby 4.45
“Murphy easing himself into an MSP seat via the list.”
Well if getting rid of him an Kezia by giving Greens no 2 on the list does not motivate you – then nothing will
Off canvassing again ! I think Central Ayrshire is won – we are down to canvassing ‘not-ins’ – if anyone has a spare room on the boarders I am willing to drive down and put in 7X10 hour days
Things seem to be looking very good, but sometimes I get the feeling Murphy is aware of things that we may not be. Sounds too confident with his “30% haven’t decided yet” mantra.
I think he is paving the way for his own “spectacular” result and his next 5 years at WM. He is canine excrement, you just cannot get it off your shoes!
Keep strongly canvassing.
This list system of MSPs is in danger of becoming our very own House of Lords , full of placemen , has-beens and non-accountables. We need a change.
@FergusMac says: 29 April, 2015 at 2:35 pm:
” … He would lower the tone at a Liars’ Convention
But! But! But! Jola and the fake rape case.
Biallie and the false claim of SNP presiding over the European Capital of Hospital Acquired Infections.
Dugdale’s tak yer pick of the many.
Unless we clear Labour out of Holyrood and fumigate it it will remain a Liar’s Convention. Grim Jim will make little difference.
Robert Kerr
That IS a big gun she has got
Likes a bit of power does Action Ruthie
Not saying anything further , apart from good pics, but perhaps she was wrongly advised to pose atop a big weapon 😉
Maybe, given the only thing he truly believes in is the greatness of Jim Murphy, Big Dim Jim’s best hope is a Tory government, with a lead in seats over Labour which is greater than the number of Scottish Labour seats which are lost on 7 May.
That way, he might be able to claim Labour’s wipe-out in Scotland made no difference, and, assuming he gets back as Eastwood MP, hang-on as SLAB leader.
If he does get back, but the number of lost SLAB seats could have meant Labour being the biggest party or winning, somebody will have to carry the can, and that somebody will be Jim.
If Ed Miliband has to have talks with the SNP, as with the abortive Lib-Dem/Labour talks in 2010, the SNP might say: “Murphy goes or no deal”. Mind you, I would think keeping Murphy would be something the SNP would want to do. He is perhaps their greatest electorial asset in Scotland.
If he doesn’t hold his seat, he is toast, again, if this comes as part of a SLAB wipe-out, he will be unlikely to be offered ermine, again, somebody will have to carry the can.
I suppose, he can always hope Kieran Simpson can get him a job with Heineken, then he can drown his sorrows.
@Lesley-Anne says: 29 April, 2015 at 2:49 pm:
” … admitted that he will sit the full five years at Westminster as well as standing for Holyrood.”
Well, for starters, Lesley-Anne, he has to hold the seat to return to Westminster. We can but hope.
Then, unless I’m mistaken there’s going to be a Labour Ladies list for Holyrood and Jim’s a Laddie. Second of all the Labour list for Holyrood could be quite short and is likely to be contested by lots of candidates the Labour lot think are the cream but who don’t get returned to Westminster. Labour, being Labour, will be sharpening the knives as we speak.
O/T Excellent Alex Thomson (CH4) article about Nicola Sturgeon
Voters love the ‘most dangerous woman in Britain’
http://mashable.com/2015/04/29/uk-election-nicola-sturgeon/
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O/T BBC really hard-selling the tactical voting now. Boy, they are really going for it. A couple of sites were promoted on Radio Scotland this afternoon, that “help” people to vote tactically, by pairing a would-be-tactical voter up with another would-be-tactical voter from a different constituency (and party) who is willing to vote for the other voter’s party in exchange, in order to cancel out the fact that that they are both voting for their favoured party’s main opponent nationally. Get the picture? of course, the examples given are Labour and Green, but we all know which party the BBC are really trying hard to stall, don’t we? When a national broadcaster starts actively interfering in a general election, you just know that something is not right.
Oh, what a tangled web!
Sure Labour will still have a block of seats after the vote, we’re not that lucky, but can’t you just feel the squirming demise of ‘big hitter’ Jim Murphy after this disaster of a campaign he is leading along with wee despicable Dougie.
Its palpable – the BBC are already in mourning 🙂
O/T, but #SLab high heid yin, His Unassailable Zoomerness Ian Smart, has tweeted confirmation that the Bain Principle exists:
@RossMcCaff The odd thing is that, without the need to defy the SNP, we’d probably not renew Trident.
11:31 PM – 28 Apr 2015
O/T apparently Labour have arranged for Royal Mail to deliver the following leaflet next Tuesday and Wednesday.
Not sure if it’s Scotland wide or just Glasgow constituencies
.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDwzIBOUMAEADmC.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CDwzH_tUIAEWm-q.jpg
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Anyone else picked up on these stories about van loads of ballot papers being stolen down south.
Is Indyref coming back again. The Brit establishment fixing Tory marginals to make sure SNP get nowhere near to power at Westminster, and saving the Grand Coalition scenario from coming into play??
Could be time for a whole new strategy come May 8th if we have 40+ SNP MP’s in Westminster all sat as opposition unable to do anything within the powers of TeamGB’s sham democracy.
I have a very uneasy feeling about what’s about to unfold.
On a related topic.
If Alex Salmond is successful in his bid for a Westminster seat will he resign his seat at Holyrood before the election next year?
Given the mischief that SLAB and the MSM tried to make for him when he previously sat in both places the SNP must surely have considered it.
If that is the case he can obviously choose the timing of his resignation and hence the subsequent by-election. I am trying to imagine in what circumstance and with which replacement candidate this could be used to greatest effect.
Anyone who lives there got some local insight or opinions?
Charles Edward says:
29 April, 2015 at 4:36 pm
“I just imagined a future where Creepy gets to be FM.”
Charles,that is seriously good stuff.Finish it and I’ll buy a hardback copy lol.
So good in fact I read it twice.
DimJims Airdrie visit, that,ll be Greengairs Village then.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
LOOK, EVERYONE! LOOK OVER THERE! I THINK IT’S SUPERMAN!
*quietly actually uploads audio clip*
SORRY, MY MISTAKE. JUST A BIRD OR A PLANE.
You absolutely certain it was a bird or a plane Stu? It could not have been … erm … a … Squirrel by any chance? 😀
Of course you are right Robert but not only does he have to *ahem* retain his seat he also has to *cough* retain his branch managership as well. As we all know he is on the verge of, if not already lost, losing his seat which means he is also no longer eligable to continue holding hisa branch managership under Labour’s own rules. 😛
However, there is always one thing we must all remember whenever we discuss anything relating to Labour. They create their own partry rules, branch manger rules etc and then almost immediately BREAK the very same rules, so don’t hold your breath waiting for anything to happen with regards Labour sacking its members for supporting another party or even replacing its branch manager! 🙂
Wow!
Poll says ALL59 seats for SNP.
Smurph says Vote SNP get Tory.
Auld Bob says Vote SNP get rid o Murphy.
“MAY THE FEAR BE WITH THEM”!
Been over on “Scot goes pop” according to comments Jim Murphy is responsible for Labours worse ever polling figures 20%. Apparently up until now Labours lowest result in Scotland was 22% in 1922.
Congratulations on a new record Jim. Good job!:-)
tartanpigsy
Yes its showing up on ITV and BBC websites
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-england-32517842
The met are saying “Officers found nothing to suggest the van was targeted for its contents.
Police told the local authorities they believed it was a coincidence the stolen van contained ballot papers”
Yeah right
On the issue of “double seats”. In Finland, some MPs continue to hold their local council seats but those are not paid positions (reasonable expenses, though).
The problem is with national parliament (MP) and European Parliament (MEP) seats. A person cannot hold both, which seems fair and square. The problem is that some high-profile MEPs stand in national GEs and high-profile MPs in Euro elections.
After the election they can choose which seat to take/continue sitting. Because of our PR list system, the MEP or MP seat they do not choose to take is taken up by the first candidate “left out” on their party list. That is also fair and square in a PR list system – but only if it’s applied to one parliament, not two.
What happens is that a high-profile MP gets a massive amount of votes in Euro elections, or a high-profile MEP gets a massive amount of votes in national elections, thus bringing up their party list’s total votes and “pulling” candidates with very modest amount of votes over the line with them. I have no problem with that. That’s how open list d’Hondt PR works – if it’s applied to one parliament.
What I have a problem with is these “vote pullers” not taking up their seats but gifting them to some Joe/Jane Doe who came 6th on their party list when that party won 5 seats – but with the top ranked choosing not to take up the seat, the 6th becomes the 5th and gets in and the vote puller continues to sit his/her previous seat. Standing for election was just a sham to pull votes for the party.
I guess I haven’t explained this thing very well to people not familiar with our system. I’ll give a couple of examples.
At last year’s Euro elections, the then foreign minister Alexander Stubb (rightist National Coalition Party) got more than 35,000 personal votes, more than anyone else in the whole country. Right after the Euro election, the leader of NCP and PM Jyrki Katainen resigned (he had his eye on a lucrative EU Commission position), Alexander Stubb was elected new NCP leader and became PM. He didn’t take up his MEP seat, so some Jane Doe got it. The point is that A.Stubb’s personal vote helped the NCP to win 3 MEP seats. Without his massive personal vote, they would’ve got only 2. (Finland elects 13 MEPs.) People who voted for A. Stubb got Jane Doe instead.
I’m vindicated by the fact that under A. Stubb’s leadership and premiereship, the NCP’s vote share nosedived from mid-twenties to 18.2% in less than a year, from the largest party to the third by seats in the new parliament. He’s our Jim Murphy! 🙂
The latest example comes from this month’s GE. There are large swathes of rural and non-metropolitan Finland that stubbornly vote for the Centre Party because their father voted for CP and his father before him and so on, you get my drift.
They have this particular creature. He was the bright young, high-flying politician when I was a kid (and I’m in my mid-forties now) and he still continues to be the bright old thing. People still vote for him in their droves even after all his scandals, flipping houses and all his political wheeling and dealing, government minister or opposition politician.
One thing he’s never been is the leader of his party, so never a PM, and never a President – he’s tried several times. He’s one bitter and frustrated man, blames the media and the voters, who don’t see that he’s the chosen one. (Sound familiar?)
Most recently, he’s been an MEP but he won an MP seat in the national GE last week. Now he’s dilly-dallying about which seat to sit and when, so constituents don’t know who’ll represent them in Parliament. Vote Paavo Väyrynen and get Joe Doe, his huge personal vote pulled Joe Doe to nearly there, and into MP-dom if Paavo Väyrynen decides not to take up his MP seat but continue with the Euro parliament and his MEP seat.
It’s carzy but it is legal, and this is how our PR open list system works. The one thing I’d want to change is to ban sitting MEPs from standing in GEs and sitting MPs from standing in Euro elections. If you want to stand, fine. But resign your existing seat before the election.
I’d even be happy with a “safety net” alternative – you don’t have to resign your existing seat before the election but if elected, you have to take up the new seat to which you were elected to and resign the old one. That stops the worst “vote pulling” and assures voters that the candidate they vote for isn’t just going to piss off to some other parliament and leave them with someone they didn’t vote for. (It should be noted that the Joe/Jane Doe would still be of the same party so the overall result of the election doesn’t change, just the person.)
Didn’t SNP’s Mark MacDonald resign his list Holyrood seat to contest the FPTP constituency by-election after the death of a FPTP constituency MSP (Bryan Adam?)? I think that is the rule for Holyrood by-elections.
My opinion is that nobody should hold seats in two parliaments. Alex Salmond did for a while, so SNP isn’t squeaky clean on this, and it makes it harder to attack the Smurph on this – assuming he wins his seat next week and another next year. 😀
Sorry for the overly long post. (I suppose few ever read it through :-D)
Note Alex Salmond donated one of his salaries to charity and there was a large area overlap between the two constituencies, as will be the case if he wins Gordon.
There just aren’t enough elderly people in Scotland to support 3 unionist parties.
Ye god’s!
I’ve just heard on SKY News that oor wee EX ex Prime Minister/ M.P. a certain Gordon Broon is to be awarded an honourary degree at Glasgow University. The only question I have is what is the degree for?
1) LYING
2) COWARDICE
3)STUPIDITY
4)INCOMPETENCE
Answers on a post card to:
Jim Murphy
Branch Manager
Labour party in Scotland
FREEPOST
Glasgow
@lumilumi
,More people read it than you would believe.Keep up the contribution
If you are in East Ren – just vote SNP and boot him out of Westminster – that should fix Jim’s dilemma.
See sorted – no problem.
FAO Robert Peffers
Robert,
have you thought about creating a post for the Rev?
It would be a great idea I think to inform people of the true state of sovereignty in Scotland.. The settle will of the people of Scotland etc and how getting over 50% of the seats might in fact block Westminsters attempts to force laws on Scotland against its will.
You could start with your fantastic knowledge of the Declaration of Arbroath. That the people are sovereign leading up to the Union etc and how ultimately those laws still remain. And how it now affects things if for the first time ever the SNP get most seats
I’m sure I speak for others in this request.
@ Roll_On_2015, 3.00pm
What SMurph wants and what he GETS are two entirely different things.
Thanks for the link to the Independent story https://archive.is/5mU2Y
I stopped reading at the caption underneath the picture of NS and a baby on campaign trail.
“Huge swing to the nationalists could leave Jim Murphy’s party without representation.”
Eh?
I thought this democracy thingy worked the other way around. People from a geographical area have representation in parliament. But no, apparently the Labour party has to represent Westminster in Scotland, or something.
Mind boggles.
A little bit like this link:
http://tarffadvertiser.blogspot.de/2015/04/the-lady-with-gioconda-smile.html
but with far more knowledge and detail.
Jackie Bird “in Scotland where no seat is at all safe!”
O/T
In London on business (had my I’m with Nicola brolly up)
Just seen the Greens PPB here with the coalition boy band. Very clever.
Would be worth a few percentage points for SNP if aired in Scotland. Or was it…?
The Scottish royal coat of arms has the Latin motto, “Nemo me impune lacessit”. In English that translates as, “No one interferes with me with impunity”, In Wir ain Lallans Leid, it owersets iz, “Wha daur meddle wi’ me”?
Owersettin o mair by ornar wirds.
herried=plundered, robbed
maun fa’ ere it’s taen=must fall before it’s taken
naig=nag, horse
Gar’d=made
dumfoondert=amazed, perplexed
toom=empty
clank=severe blow
Percies=an English aristocratic family
ajee=crooked, awry
cloured=struck, battered
reivers=border bandits
loons=rascals
Jook’t=duck, evade a blow
Hair-i-bee=place of execution at Carlisle
Ma naig nickert=my horse whinnied
brawlie=in good health
Jethart tree=a jury that tries a case after a hanging, (lynching.)
I’m puzzled at Murphy’s intention to “stand for First Minister” at Holyrood in 2016. Surely that would require TWO things, namely he’d either have to be elected an MSP (or selected from the Labour List), then Labour would have to win the Holyrood election by ousting the SNP as the party of Government. Without both of these things, he CANNOT be “elected” as First Minister!
@ lumilumi
Read? Every time honey, every time.
Fred wrote:
“it looks like Murphy will end up joining the ermine-vermin in the Lords. Lord Murphy of…….?”
Megalomania.
@Will Podmore says: 29 April, 2015 at 3:39 pm:
“Luigi writes, “Yep, civil war looms.” Is that a threat?”
Can you not read, Will?
Luige was making reply to me. I posted that if the Westminster redundant troughers attempted to jump the queue on the Labour Holyrood List the Labour knives would be out. How the hell could that be a threat?
tartanpigsy says:
29 April, 2015 at 5:42 pm
Anyone else picked up on these stories about van loads of ballot papers being stolen down south.
Is Indyref coming back again. The Brit establishment fixing Tory marginals to make sure SNP get nowhere near to power at Westminster, and saving the Grand Coalition scenario from coming into play??
Could be time for a whole new strategy come May 8th if we have 40+ SNP MP’s in Westminster all sat as opposition unable to do anything within the powers of TeamGB’s sham democracy.
I have a very uneasy feeling about what’s about to unfold.
Obviously it would be nice if the SNP had some clout in Westminster if Labour needed confidence and supply, or even something less formal, in order to govern. And obviously any fraud is a horrifying prospect
However, if it should happen that the tories win, whether outright or in some combination with others, we are still in a good position. No matter what happens, so long as there are a goodly number of SNP MP’s, as now looks very likely, they will have a strong voice. That voice of the progressives has been almost wholly absent for a very long time, and its reintroduction to Westminster cannot fail to be a powerful counter force to the prevailing orthodoxy of neoliberal austerity.
There are many, throughout the UK, who are looking for representation of that sort. It could not fail to open the range of possible thought and policy beyond the horrific assumptions currently holding sway
I do not think that we have “one shot” or one route to a better society or to independence. It might turn out that there are many steps: but with a large body of SNP MP’s we are at least on the road.
I hope your fears are groundless: but if not there is still much reason for hope, and in the long run I think that we will progress to a better society in the UK: and later to a better Scotland outside it
@ lumilumi
I find your accounts of another system wholly fascinating.
All systems have strengths and weaknesses, but it is quite hard to understand those for arrangements one has never experienced. We are privileged to have first hand observations, for I have noticed that most people are either confident their own system is best; or hate it, and are starry eyed about another.
Do please keep posting such things.
You may have noticed, I happen to like long posts. Do not let length deter you, for complex issues do not yield to soundbites in any helpful way. Or so I think
@Edward says: 29 April, 2015 at 5:14 pm:
“Robert Kerr
That IS a big gun she has got
Not sure if it matters, Robert but Ruthie (Ahem!), swings the other way?
Murphys Law,
No 1 Funding,
Future Industry in Scotland= Tax Bankers.
Future Funding for Infrastructure= Tax Big Houses.
Future Funding for Health and Education= Make something up.
Message for Jimbo, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Lumi,
Thank you for your, as always, interesting and thoughtful response to my query. An unexpected take on my idle speculation.
On the question of Alex Salmond provoking a Holyrood by-election maybe that would be the ideal chance to call Murphy’s bluff and see if he fancied his chances as an MSP.
It was certainly a fairly embarrassing morning for Jim Murphy. Even by the end of Call Kaye, you could hear even she was becoming exasperated with him just sitting there, as he spouted nonsense time and again with Labour soundbites and a number of mantras that we all know quite well now.
Even when she was getting to the point of clearly demanding an answer to her question of ‘how he would grow the economy?’. He then replied that ‘if people had money in their pocket, then the economy would grow!’
Now it’s saying something when even Kaye Adams is snapping at him, and rightly pointing out that what he had just said, was not an answer to the question. She asked him again. Same drivel. Poor Kaye must have felt like clattering him across the room after years of trying to support Unionist nonsense which has led to the Scottish Unionists taking the form of nothing more than hot air and man who is clearly a ‘toom tabard’.
For 3 years, Kaye has taken flak, condemnation and even severe criticism, which in some cases, was clearly deserved as she tried to argue a case for the Union.
So to have Jim Murphy sitting in front of her, doing one his ‘trips’, and regurgitating noises that are just nothing more than mantra, soundbite and ‘SNP, SNP, SNP’ would have probably peed Kaye right off this morning. Three years of fighting the Nationalists …and this is the Scottish Unionists ‘Champion’…
Jim Murphy. MP and Manager of the North Branch Office of the Labour Party.
Poor woman must be completely and utterly fed up tonight.
icyspark says:
“A little bit like this link:
http://tarffadvertiser.blogspot.de/2015/04/the-lady-with-gioconda-smile.html
but with far more knowledge and detail.”
Interesting. I remember reading long ago that the case of McCrormick versus the Lord Advocate (essentially about ER versus ERII) highlighted some issues about where sovereignty lay in English versus Scots Law.
I believe this was the justification for the accepted situation during the 70 & 80s that if the SNP achieved a majority of MPs, they and they alone spoke for Scotland.
While the SNP say it doesn’t mean instant independence, it probably does mean that they will be the sovereign representatives of the Scottish people, and any Tory, Labour or Tory+Labour government cannot impose legislation on Scotland against SNP wishes.
I have absolutely no idea whether this is correct! Perhaps we have a constitutional lawyer handy!?
Apparently David Coburn MEP has been barred from Wikipedia for altering his account 69 times in six days…
O/T on the subject of Ruth Davidson for Conservative and Willie Rennie for the Lib Dems
Aren’t they in the same boat as Labour Branch Office with their ‘Scottish’ parties which are really lead from main London Headquarters?
So Scottish Conservative and Scottish LibDems don’t actually exist?
And by the way I don’t think of Ruth Davidson as any different from any other rotten tory bastard.
Doug McG, 5.05pm
This list system of MSPs is in danger of becoming our very own House of Lords , full of placemen , has-beens and non-accountables. We need a change.
Huh?
Nobody will get in unless enough people vote for their party. OK, there’s a problem with “closed list”, i.e. the party deciding the ranking of the candidates, but you still have to be elected, unlike HoL.
I think most democratically minded people agree that the FPTP system is undemocratic and want proportional representation, i.e. a voting system that reflects the popular vote.
This time, the FPTP might be working in SNP’s favour (that’s why the Establishment, MSM & BBC are spiralling into their shrill zoomer madness) but that’s not a reason to retain the outdated and undemocratic system.
I’m tired of people clamoring for change and then treating a PR system and PR-elected list MSPs as somehow inferior, unelected, whatever.
Grow up!
Most modern democracies have PR systems – the UK and the US are notable exceptions, not the rule – and people are mostly OK with their PR systems. Election maths might throw a couple of surprises but on the whole, the parliament will reflect the popular vote, no absolute majority of seats on 32% of the popular vote as might happen in the UK.
It’s a different political culture, and people in Scotland – who’ve been granted a sort of a PR system since 1999 – should learn to embrace their more democratic system, not denigrate it and yearn after the undemocratic WM system.
Jeesh! [bangs head against a brick wall]
Should the tories have total control of Wasteminster then a sizable block of SNP MPs is in the best interest of Scotland. Tories will know it is but a short step to Independence the one thing the Tories fear.
Conan_the_Librarian says:
29 April, 2015 at 7:20 pm
Apparently David Coburn MEP has been barred from Wikipedia for altering his account 69 times in six days…
Rancid Graun says
“Wikipedia also prohibits users from engaging in “edit wars”, in which different users repeatedly delete each other’s contributions. During one particularly intense dispute, Coburn was accused by another user of getting into an edit war with himself and repeatedly deleting his own changes.”
Now that’s how to make a complete arse of yourself, UKIP style.
O/T
Some people dont do irony
http://tinypic.com/r/xo0gpi/8
upside down,
I have no idea why. 🙁
And the latest party political broadcast for the labour party…..https://m.youtube.com/?#/watch?v=-l1N-fjVOiQ
@icyspark says: 29 April, 2015 at 6:29 pm:
“have you thought about creating a post for the Rev?”
Thing is, icyspark, no one needs special knowledge other than a few basic historic facts to set the context of why the Declaration was written and sent.
The germane facts are that the general law throughout Christendom was Divine Right of Kings. That is Kings were appointed by God to inherit the right to own their Realm. The only humans who could displace them were other monarchs. They were legal owners of everything and everyone in their realm – That was/is sovereignty.
Scotland had ended up with two main heirs and the people in temporary charge had been daft enough to ask the King of England to help sort out who should be king. The English King tried to cheat by saying that he would choose whichever claimant bowed the knee to him and that would make the English King overlord of Scotland.
Bruce killed the Red Comyn but there is no proof whether it was murder or whether Bruce was defending himself. The English king claimed it was murder and the Pope excommunicated Bruce. As the law of divine right meant the King owned everything that meant everyone was excommunicated and an ex-communicant cannot have divine right. It looked like Scotland was screwed.
That is the background to the Declaration of Arbroath. Now you can read the English translation here : –
http://www.scotsman.com/news/the-text-of-the-declaration-of-arbroath-1-465230
Now almost everyone knows the bit, “For as long as 100 of us remain alive … “
But here is the bit that states the people are sovereign, the King the protector of their sovereignty, and the people’s right to sack and replace the monarch.
So icyspark, it doesn’t really need an article – just the ability to read the words. The important bit is the claim of the People to drive out the Monarch. If the monarch had divine right no one but God could drive him out.
The Pope agreed the Declaration and that established the Scots as a legally a Sovereign People. Here’s a legal proof for you. No private person in Scotland can clamp your vehicle on private land in Scotland and ask money to release it. If they do they are charged with demanding money with menace because as a sovereign person you own Scotland.
How thick is Creepy Jim?
He spouts the same lies every day like a rabid parrot, sees his
party lose support every day, so what does he do?
Repeats Exactly the same Lies with exactly the same result.
Look forward to hearing from you tomorrow Dim!
Re photie of RD,
Carlsberg don’t do strap-ons, but if they did….
For months Creepy Jim has been saying that his constituents in East REnfrew would be the first to know what his decision would be re how long he would remain an MP.
How is it that the first inkling the nation had that he was going for the 2 Jobs option was at breakfast time on GMS?
Is he trying to make us think that he had previously announced his decision to his constituents and that not a hint of it had reached the media prior to his breakfast statement?
Aye Right.
Luigi, claims, “You know fine well that I was referring to possible internal strife in the Labour party, and not something else.” No, I didn’t know that – pleased to hear it.
I see you’re still lurking about the thread-ends Will. You really are the loony-left that @ Sensibledave (no stranger to lunacy himself) has been warning us about!
Dear Fred, thank you for exposing your preference for abuse over evidence-based discussion.