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The passing of sentence

Posted on November 30, 2016 by

The Prime Minister of the UK, whose party has one MP in Scotland, officially tells the Commons that she doesn’t believe people on benefits should be able to survive.

Happy St Andrews’ Day, readers.

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    1. 30 11 16 13:57

      The passing of sentence | speymouth

    199 to “The passing of sentence”

    1. Chic McGregor says:

      So she does not believe people should be able to live on benefits.

      St Andrews Day?

      Mair like Mais Dais.

    2. Bob Mack says:

      Mathew Rycroft the British Ambassador to America, gave a speech on Syria at the UN Security Council meeting.

      He famously said “The way a society treats it’s most vulnerable ,is the measure of its humanity”

      Guess he was right enough.

    3. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      It’s been removed. I wonder why…

    4. Conan the Librarian™ says:

      Back now. Strange.

    5. George S Gordon says:

      And by Christ (literally!!), the poor taxpayers shouldn’t have to support them.

    6. Proud Cybernat says:

      But hey, look on the bright side. We’re still part of the most glorious, bestestest Union in the whole known universe and beyond.

    7. Swami Backverandah says:

      Put her under the slightest bit of pressure, and the veneer of ‘for all citizens’ evaporates, and the old Tory self-centred, self-righteous hideousness is exposed.

    8. Chic McGregor says:

      She should start by getting the worst benefit scroungers into gainful employment, the royal family and the House of Lords.

      That would free up office space for when she relocates the function of ATOS to the UK. Assuming post brexit it will not remain in France.

      She could rename it the House of Lourdes then because you would go in disabled and come out fit for work.

    9. Valerie says:

      Scary and depressing.

      Things in general just shite.

      Assimilation has begun in ernest, as never before. Yesterday, the UK Foreign office tweeting about the Queensferry Bridge was the start of claiming everything we do as British.

      Today the UK Scotland Office tweeting stuff about St Andrews day, but we can’t fly a Saltire.

      With everything going on, I really wonder if or when we will get our chance, and will enough see what is going on?

    10. Garrion says:

      This is the Tories’ newspeak. The welfare system cannot create work, it’s not designed to create work. That’s the government and the economy’s job. It’s intended to help you while you are unable to work. Please can we get ourselves away from these fkn monsters.

    11. Legerwood says:

      Perhaps my hearing is defective but I have listened to the clip several times and she says that she believes in a system where people can live on benefits.

      Have I misheard?

      That the actions of the Government she leads say otherwise puts statement and action at odds. The link to the report confirms that to be the case.

    12. McBoxheid says:

      That says it all really. The unelected prime minister states what she personally thinks. She has been nominated leader of the Conservative an Unionist Party without the normal elective process, because the former PM was forced to settle in party fighting about a UKIP policy.

      This is how far the tories differ from the politics of a Scottish people, who only elected ONE tory in the last WM elections.

      Scotland voted remain by a whopping 65%. If 55% is the decisive, unambiguous majority will of the Scottish people that shall henceforth and forevermore be proof of what Scotland wants, then what is 65%?

      Now we have the personal opinion of one backdoor tory PM and that’s the law?

      If people don’t vote for Indy now, they never will. I seriously hope that people have more sense that to want this sort of government for Scotland for the foreseeable future.

      Independence is about running our own affairs.

      It is not about begging for scraps from the imperial table.

      That some people would want a tory party that is so right wing that Atilla the Hun would tell them that they are going too far, beggars belief. They clearly do not have the best interests of Scotland at heart.

      The unionist politicians do not have Scotland’s interests at heart. They fear losing their seats in Westminster. They fear the possiblity that they may never get the chance of becoming a member of the House of Lords.

      In contrast, 56 SNP MPs that truly represent Scotland are quite willing to loose their jobs if Scotland can be free from Westminster rule.

      That is the fundamental difference. Pro-Indy politicians want Scotland to be run for the people and by the people of Scotland. Unionists see politics as a means to get as much out of Scotland for themselves and their parties as possible.

      It’s a game of give or take. Do you want MPs that give for the good of the country, or ones that take as much as the can for themselves and their parties?

      Time to decide

    13. mealer says:

      Send a text to folk you know wishing them a happy St Andrews day.Get it on Twitter and Facebook.

    14. call me dave says:

      Oooh! Lashing of goodwill for all of the UK populous from the accidental PM.

      Building Bridges in Scotland too I saw yesterday.

      @Valerie

      https://archive.is/AK1HL

    15. Clootie says:

      …Better Together…and Scottish Labour continues to put the union first regardless of the impact on those in greatest need.
      The right wing media continue the campaign to label every one on benefits a scrounged.

      Labour MPs at Westminster are still supporting a Tory government by abstaining. They are more interested in power than principles.

      A nation with one of the worst state pensions in Europe is getting ready to remove the triple lock that barely kept a bad pension steady…but don’t forget what Gordon Brown did to private and state pensions.

      The media has already started the campaign against pensioners. The baby boomers are getting all the money ( strange how the contributions are ignored). Take a look at the state pension in Germany / / France etc

      We need a 2nd Referendum on Independence urgently before it is too late to recover from the damage

    16. ScottishPsyche says:

      Happy St Andrew’s Day to everyone.

      Unless you can work you have no right to meaningful life and support for Tories is rising?

      Meanwhile in Scotland a 13% (with 9% coming from the No to yes) change from Yes to No in support for Indy is what the might of the establishment with all their tactics of suppress and distort can manage. This is without any campaigning from the Yes side and the SNP bearing the brunt of the Westminster cuts. Not bad. No wonder the Tories are shaking their heads as to what they can do.

    17. Glamaig says:

      @Valerie
      I know what youre feeling. Theres been a few things today – the BBC airbrushing out Nicolas great reception at the Seanad, the Saltire on buildings ban, Angus Robertson being jeered in the Commons just for mentioning St Andrews day, if thats not bad enough I made the mistake of listening to Call Kaye, and looked at Murdo Frasers twitter. What a poisonous wee shite he is. Its hard to believe that a Scottish person could be so dedicated to preventing his own country from actually running itself. Imagine how that looks to people from other countries? Bizarre.

      It was great seeing the support in the Seanad yesterday, but today Im fucking raging.

      BTW did anyone notice on Call Kaye that Ian Dunt was suddenly cut off (technical problem) just as he was explaining that Scotland could easily join the EU because all our laws are already EU compliant? Then after his connection was restored he seemed much more negative.

    18. CameronB Brodie says:

      As a disabled person, I have to say fuck this neo-fascist shit.

      #wedgepolitics

      BRING ON INDYREF2

      @HMG
      Corporate tax avoidance and QE? Are you governing to advance the interests of capital or the interests of an inclusive and sustainable society? Where are my human rights?

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    19. bjsalba says:

      @Legerwood
      You did mishear.

      The last sentence was “He believes people should be able to live on benefits.”

      The “he” in question is presumably the MP who raised the question.

      Living on benefits is not one of the things she said she believes in.

    20. yesindyref2 says:

      An interesting possible pilot scheme being discussed:

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/14921161.Trial_for_a_basic_income_for_all_may_go_ahead_in_Scotland/

      could be something to look at, countering the inhumanity of Westminster.

    21. maureen says:

      Theresa May said that their policies do help people into work and does encourage people into the workplace.
      This would be all well and good if they removed the conditionality and stopped sanctioning people into destitution.

      Encouraging the disabled and long term ill to prepare for work or worse, putting them into a work program is messed up.
      Sanctioning them because they are unable to maintain what is expected of them through the conditionality system is f*cked up.

      When you take away a persons financial security, however meagre it may be, you take away hope. I can’t get my head around how they are getting away with this.
      At present, I am one of these people unable to work through long term illness and I am scared for my future under westminster rule.
      Having recently filled in a reassessment form I am now awaiting my fate, knowing full well that I am going to have to fight to keep my benefit. Hate that word, benefit.

    22. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Murdo Frasers. He appears happy with his slavery and is more deserving of pity and assistance towards the recovery of better mental health, than the scorn of rational Scots.

      Someone please help the lad.

      @gerryhassan
      Still an ideological BritNat pseudo socialist?

    23. Valerie says:

      @yesindyref2

      The basic income policy was supported by SNP conference about a year ago, I think? One of my branch officers proposed it, and it passed easily.

      All stats from countries trialling it are positive. Saves hugely on Admin, and its circulating money locally.

      @call me Dave

      Good to see the bridge crap picked up by Herald.

      It’s the level and consistency of denigration at the moment, and this latest move to start rebranding. It’s ethnic cleansing, and I’m nervous, but that’s what they want of course.

    24. Well, Ruth Strictly Come Prancing, WATP Professor Three Jobs Adam Tomkins, WATP Murdo Fraser, Jackson Used Carlot, do you all agree with ‘Big T’?
      People shouldn’t be able to live on benefits?
      They are merely mouthing out loud what the Ultra Right Blue Red and Yellow Tories think, and their Draconian Policies confirm.
      Fuck the poor.
      Hang your heads in shame.
      We are not even allowed Saltires, to eat, never mind display with Scottish pride on St Andrew’s Day.

    25. manandboy says:

      Theresa May is a Margaret Thatcher tribute act. But she hasn’t been really tested yet, although what she has done is less than impressive.

      We are dealing with one of the most despised regimes the world has ever known.

    26. mike says:

      Sorry off topic, but did anyone else hear leader of the Irish Senate get cut off on good morning Scotland this morning. The same technical difficulties that beset the George square cameras during demos methinks. From about 2:08:40

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b082x2k6#play

      Very telling, once a problem, twice an issue and three times a conspiracy.

    27. call me dave says:

      How a single word – ‘normally’ – could wreck plans for Brexit

      https://archive.is/8PjTD

      Hope NS takes her foot off the pedal for a few days from the high intensity of her efforts over the last month.
      It is energy sapping to be travelling everyday standing up for Scotland at every opportunity at home and abroad.

      So after slapping down the opposition as usual at FMQs in Holyrood enjoy a long weekend …chill out. :/

    28. Macart says:

      So much for helping the less well off in society then. That pledge lasted what? Four months? Time flies when you’re having fun dunnit?

      And Angus Robertson wishing everyone a happy St Andrews day? This was greeted from the government benches with jeering.

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/09118eb8-a027-4e6a-a6ae-7de9252e137b

      Around 12.15-17

      That would be the ‘bringing unity’ bit of Mays pledges in action right there is it? Imagine if you will, the reaction from the media if Scottish MPs jeered St George’s day greetings or celebrations.

      The government hasn’t exactly shown much better togetherness today. Not with Scotland and not with UK society as a whole.

      Suck it up though Scotland. Suck it up.

    29. yesindyref2 says:

      @Valerie
      It’s a good idea. What the SNP could do is try to show how it can reduce benefit fraud by allowing more efforts on that front. That’d attract some of those who complain about benefit cheats.

      Something I posted about in my Grun days was that as we can’t go berry-picking, foraging, hunting for food and clothing, cutting down trees for shelter and heat, move around for water and more food because we have a society with laws and ownership, we should all be entitled to the basics regardless of whether we work or not. Perhaps with some community work according to ability. Want more – TV, booze, fags, work for it. The Greens came up with something similar with their Citizen’s wage.

      It’s the way ahead I think, should have been done decades ago.

    30. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Yoon branding has gone to bloody far…

      http://imgur.com/a/NPRrE

    31. Capella says:

      Received my Happy St Andrews Day card from Nicola. It’s my birthday too so it is sitting with my other cards. Saltire flying outside.
      Happy St Andrews Day everyone.

    32. CameronB Brodie says:

      @gerryhassan
      The thing is, your understanding and analysis of Scotland’s post-modern condition, is ideologically defined. Your appreciation lacks a theoretical framework grounded in the scientific understanding of how society functions. Not helpful, frankly.

      I spotted you as a fake a long time back but your arrogance is protected by your academic ‘authority’ and the resulting social capital you enjoy. Circumstances change.

      I have an appreciation of contemporary social science and I’m armed with solutions of synthesis. Be warned, I love kicking the shit out of habitus. Ken fit eh mean?

      P.S. What’s your appreciation of post-modern critical social theory or the semiotic theory of space and place?

      https://www.powercube.net/other-forms-of-power/bourdieu-and-habitus/

    33. yesindyref2 says:

      Good heavens I got a St Andrews card from Nicola. Looks hand-written as well! Very good, made my day.

    34. orri says:

      The Royal Prerogative is in Holyrood’s hands as far as devolved matters go. There’s no “normally” about that unlike law making. If Royal Assent is included in the Prerogative powers then Westminster can’t prevent Holyrood passing or abolishing laws in it’s remit. More to the point the First Minister can simply advise the Queen not to sign off on them.

    35. orri says:

      Just checked and I know it’s only Wiki but,

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_prerogative_in_the_United_Kingdom

      The monarch could force the dissolution of Parliament through a refusal of royal assent; this would inevitably lead to a government resigning. By convention, the monarch always assents to bills; the last time the royal assent was not given was in 1704 during the reign of Queen Anne. This does not mean that the right to refuse has died:

      in other words in regards to bills on devolved issues the First Minister can advise the Queen to exercise her Prerogative and refuse Assent.

    36. orri says:

      Further “evidence”

      http://thestudentlawyer.com/2014/06/20/royal-assent-prerogative/

      The necessity of Royal Assent to legitimise a bill has been greatly criticized by academics and politicians (two groups you rarely see in agreement) in recent years. It is widely accepted that this particular prerogative power, among the many others, is exercised by the monarch with the approval of the political government. Even the least educated of us can spot the enormous paradox there, right?!

      Unless you’re in Scotland and can see why that might not be such a bad thing.

    37. Legerwood says:

      bjsalba says:
      30 November, 2016 at 2:05 pm
      @Legerwood
      You did mishear.

      The last sentence was “He believes people should be able to live on benefits.”

      The “he” in question is presumably the MP who raised the question.””

      Thank you. I did mishear. Listened again and got it. Don’t know how I missed it the other 4 times!

      Some warm olive oil to clear out the tubes may be required. Urgently

    38. Christopher Whyte says:

      For yesindyref2 @ 2:08 pm:

      It’s been a Scottish Green policy for years, and one that’s been tested (IIRC) in Canada and the Netherlands. The premise is that it’s economically beneficial due to costing less (much, much less admin required), but it also encourages people getting into work by removing the benefits trap. Early responses seem to confirm these premises.

      Sadly, there’s one thing a basic income doesn’t do; it doesn’t pass the right-wing puritan sniff test of giving someone “something for nothing”. A Dutch colleague of mine says that the Dutch government likes the idea because it knows that it can’t employ everyone… But the Prime Minister seems happy to let those people die. /shrug

    39. Arbroath1320 says:

      Unchain the Unicorn flag is flying proudly outside, received, as others have, my personally signed St. Andrews day card from Nicola and then this.

      Just as well I’m in a good mood otherwise I might say something die Fuhrerin May might regret me saying. 😀

      Just for once I’d like to see that bitch or any other one from her morally corrupt, greed driven, xenophobic party try and live off of a week’s benefits. No one in the corrupt Tory party has the slightest idea what it is like to try and survive in the REAL world that THEY are destroying day by day!

    40. Robert Graham says:

      Well I suppose the pretence has finally been abandoned on welfare.
      More or less the same as the love showered on us in 2014 , the gloves are off , get ready for another BBC misinformation attack if that doesn’t work just flatly ignore anything good being done by our Scottish Government as has been
      The BBC are the single biggest threat to Scotland and all who live here .

    41. mealer says:

      Macart 2.36pm

      Thanks for the link to Angus Robertsons speech.Unfortunately I can’t seem to wind it forward to the interesting bit on my iPad.Could it maybe be edited or something? Cheers!

    42. Another Union Dividend says:

      Watching Politics Show while doing some work at home and noticed that as usual we have yet again an arch unionist as the political commentator and Ian Murray and the two other yoons who don’t sit at Westminster for seats in Scotland gang up on Tommy Sheppard who was denied the last word despite Ian Murray constantly interrupting him they getting another go.

      Yet another reason broadcasting should be devolved.

    43. clipper says:

      Someone somewhere with the know how and resources needs to find out exactly who made the decision to ban the Saltire, and also perhaps who was responsible for agreeing to it. Then whoever he/she/they are, whether britnat bureaucrats or even members of the SG, they should be hounded until they explain why it’s too “political” but the uj isn’t.

    44. clipper says:

      Apologies meant to put that on previous thread.

    45. Proud Cybernat says:

      BBC MISREPORTING SCOTLAND making a bit of an arse of things in yesterday’s ‘Scottish’ Sun…

      http://imgur.com/t9d0XAe

    46. Robert Kerr says:

      @clipper.

      Maybe the banning of the Saltire is a ploy to get more Yes votes.

      A double agent perhaps?

      Tick tock !

    47. Ian McCubbin says:

      Self rightious, no empathy no compassion and just after wishing all in UK a happy St Andrews day. The woman does not understand the principle of give to those less fortunate.

    48. CameronB Brodie says:

      @gerryhassan
      You might want to consult with Scotland’s premier Tory fan-boy, David Torrance, on the processes and mechanisms involved in human self-identification and decision-making.

      The BBC sets high standards you know.

    49. wull2 says:

      A thing I learned as a child from jigsaws, “don’t force a part in to place, the correct part will eventually fall into place” The part with a picture of Big Ben on it belongs to another jigsaw !

    50. Stoker says:

      “Work or die?”

      As people who have, until very recently, worked most of our lives and contributed more than our fare share to the poor mans pot, we now find ourselves in a position not of our making.

      I have become my wifes 24/7 carer and we’re “living” on benefits, that’s not our fuckin’ choices and we’d work any of those Tory bastards under the table. Half a days hard graft would kill them.

      I really despise these turds when they seek to lord it over us on issues such as this. GTF and take yer House of Lords with you, you pompous pratts.

    51. John Dickson says:

      Got my St Andrews day card too, fair cheered me up after the shite I watched on PMQs

    52. Andrew McLean says:

      Mike 2:30
      there were no technical difficulties in George Square.

      The cameras were ordered to be turned off.

      Its in the logbook.

    53. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      The significant thing was the enclosure with my St Andrew’s Card of a appeal for funds. Not any old appeal but an appeal for Funds for a Referendum Campaign

    54. CameronB Brodie says:

      @gerryhassan
      This resembles the ideology that shaped the Nazi T4 program and the start of the Holocaust. Notice the lack of humanity an ideological mindset can lead to, coitus-knuckles?

      Theresa May formally condemns the poor to death as a matter of “fundamental” ideology:

    55. Glamaig says:

      Dave McEwan Hill says:
      30 November, 2016 at 4:12 pm
      The significant thing was the enclosure with my St Andrew’s Card of a appeal for funds. Not any old appeal but an appeal for Funds for a Referendum Campaign

      Aye it looks awfy like a YES leaflet! donation gone in, please god can we finally get rid of those Tory twats in Westminster out of our lives forever

    56. Effijy says:

      BBC SHortbread attempt to discredit Scotland/SNP when
      They discovered a 15 year old Syrian refugee who is now
      Staying with his Uncle in Glasgow, had not yet been registered
      at School, nor have an appointed Social Worker.

      He had neither in Syria before he fled, he had neither in
      a French camp in Calais for over a year.
      He was rejected for Entry into England for such support.

      It seems SNP are Bad although he has a safe home and benefits
      While these things are sorted by the local Council.

      How dare the Westminster propaganda channel smear our reputation
      When they were behind the bombing and destabilisation of Syria.

    57. Hang on. I’m a trained cabinet maker. I can’t do this job because I’ve got Asthma. I therefore need to retrain. For the next two years, therefore, while I train as a Work Therapist to help people with illness and disabilities, I need to be able to live on benefits. Once trained. I’ll be better paid than a cabinet maker, and will therefore pay more tax and social security (than I would have done otherwise, and much, mush more than the government paid for me to retrain. And this for several decades.
      Isn’t that a good thing?

    58. while we don’t expect anything else from the Tories.
      don’t forget Labour’s attitude wasn’t any different to those to those on benefits.

      Remember for example their shop a benefit cheat adverts

    59. Peter, LL.B says:

      “Live and Let Die” starring Roger “I want” Moore. 007 goes in a vain search for compassionate conservatism, a tale with an “Oliver Twist” in it, and some very artful tax dodgers, who cannot make the ends of a few £100 Million pound yachts meet, because they are being asked to pay 5% more income tax annually…

    60. Macart says:

      @mealer

      Wish I could help with that. Be worthwhile though if it could. You could even make out our MPs asking each other ‘what’s all that about?’ in the audio. Took even politicians used to that bear pit of a chamber aback.

    61. Bob Mack says:

      @Andy in Germany,

      And what if I left school at 16 and have no skills or qualifications.?
      What if I am a woman whose husband has walked out ?

      There are many cases I dealt with who are compelled to live this type of life without help or assistance in changing it. It is not done through choice.

      I had clients who could neither read nor write, and for whom applying for a job was just impossible due to the process itself. They signed all their completed forms with an x which were consigned by a witness and in six years were never offered adult literacy classes by the DWP.

    62. The biggest cheats and scrounges are those at the top who do not pay their taxes all done with the labour and Tory parties telling us year after year they will stop this aye right .. Ot I see the media are having a new English historical series about Henry 8 we never go back any farther than that to say Edward 1 I wonder why ?

    63. Brian McGrath says:

      I am on JSA well I say I am but as it was only contribution based I have had my allotted 6 months of money and now all I will get is my NI paid. They expect my partner to pay everything. Luckily she can but the jobcentre has done sweet FA to actually help me find work. They expect you to do everything yourself. Now I am capable of looking for work but listening to some of the other people at the jobcentre it is apparent that some may never be able to work.

      The jobcentre have unrealistic expectations of what people should be doing to get to work. Sorry but I am not travelling for 90mins each way to work as I don’t drive, public transport is expensive and can be unreliable. I live in South Wales at the moment.

      Now for the next few months the job market will dry up as businesses are just looking at Christmas and have no money for hiring as it is getting towards the end of the financial year.

      No one wants to live on benefits but some have no choice over the matter. People with social anxiety and serious mental or physical health problems are often treated like shit.

      Things have changed in the jobcentre but not always for the better.

    64. scottieDog says:

      If her govt targeted full employment I Cound perhaps understand tories telling people to get out and get work but they actually believe unemployment is a tool to control inflation

    65. Ken500 says:

      Theresa May is a tax evading, lying criminal who condemns pensioners to death especially women. She is a hard faced wicked individual. An illegal unelected PM. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 Constituencies. Most of the Tories should be put in jail for fraud and tax evasion, Illegal wars and killing and maiming millions of innocent people. Along with Blair, Brown, Cameron, Osbourne, Clegg, Clinton Obama and all the rest of them. Causing the biggest migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. They are destroying the world economy.

      The taxpayers pay for benefits so their relatives can receive proper care. Their mums, grannies, aunties, sister and cousins, and othervreakstives who were not given enough pensions because they did not have pensions rights,

      The Tories are wasting £Billions of public money on illegal wars, tax evasion and banking fraud. Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident and Heathrow. Embezzling and misappropriating public money for them and their associates and starving and killing pensioners and the vulnerable. They are despicable.

    66. scottieDog says:

      Of course you’ll never hear the govt talk about the £445BN in corporate welfare created by the bank of england over the past 5 years used to boost portfolios of the wealthiest in society.
      Sickening.

      If the tories are serious about folk working and getting Britain on its feet why don’t they create a job guarantee scheme. Become employer of last resort and pay a decent wage for those who cannot get jobs in the private sector.

    67. Wee Alex says:

      Peter McCulloch says:
      Remember for example their shop a benefit cheat adverts.

      It’s benefit cheats that make it easy for the Tories to label all claimants as scum.

      The vast majority of claimants need and deserve our help. The cheats need to be rooted out.

      Let’s lay the blame where it really belongs and expose the Tories for what they really are, the party of privelige and tax cheats.

    68. yesindyref2 says:

      Just looked at the enclosed “Appeal” with the St Andrew’s Day card, where it says “I think an independence referendum is now highly likely”.

      Now I’m a very suspicious kind of person so I wondered if this was just a crafty way of building up SNP funds?

      No, it clearly says “Referendum Campaign Fund”.

      I’ll keep it for when I have money.

    69. John Edgar says:

      May talks as if people who have to live on benefits are a type of feckless class who only aspire to live on benefits!
      Next, she will suggest that people who work may not have the right to be able to live off the proceeds of their work.
      We will reach the state of homo declivitis, where the Herrenvolk will determine who has enough to live on and who will not.
      A sort of final solution to get rid of the oiks. At the other end, the retirement age will rise to work ouks to death.
      But who will determine who are classified as oiks?

    70. @Wee Alex
      30 November, 2016 at 5:19 pm

      Of course benefit cheats make it easy for the Tories to label all claimants as being workshy scroungers etc.

      however Labour are no different from the Tories in that regard it has also stigmatised those on benefits for it own political advantage.

      I lost count of numbers the people who told me about their experience of fitness for work tests and they placed all blame the Tories.

      I explained to them it was the previous Labour government that brought these measures in and what the Tories did was to make them harsher.

      The Labour parliamentary candidate in the 2015 general election, Melanie Ward also tried to pass off the bedroom tax as being a Tory policy.

      I pointed out to her in a letter to my local newspaper that it was Labour which brought that policy in under its welfare reform bill for private tenants and that it was to extended to include council and housing association tenants in 2013.

      I have no problem condemning the Tories, but never let us forget their partners in crime the Labour party.

    71. CameronB Brodie says:

      John Edgar
      Social Darwinist believe nature an God will show the way, through the mechanisms of bloodlines, habitus and structural violence.

      @gerryhassan
      This is what your ideologically-driven ‘fence-sitting’ supports. When are you on the BBC next, coitus-knuckles.

      “Structural violence is one way of describing social arrangements that put individuals and populations in harm’s way… The arrangements are structural because they are embedded in the political and economic organization of our social world; they are violent because they cause injury to people … neither culture nor pure individual will is at fault; rather, historically given (and often economically driven) processes and forces conspire to constrain individual agency. Structural violence is visited upon all those whose social status denies them access to the fruits of scientific and social progress.” – Dr. Paul Farmer

      http://www.structuralviolence.org/structural-violence/

    72. Hamish100 says:

      Re the BBC cutting of the Republic of Ireland representative on radio on GMS. On Reporting Scotland the other evening Magnusson apologies that for technical reasons they couldn’t bring the First Minister meeting with the RoI. Maybe the influence of some Ulster folk based at Pacific Quay wouldn’t allow it?

      Begs the question how they can speak to folk from Brazil, Cuba etc but not the ROI and why they didn’t return later to the caller. Nope we had to listen to yesterday’s news from Engerlund that at an 89 yr old had advertised for a job. Good for him

      BBC Scotland –

    73. cirsium says:

      O/T http://gcaptain.com/bae-shouldnt-get-build-u-k-s-new-frigate-review-says/

      Has anyone got an update? Is the contract for Type26 frigate still unsigned?

    74. twathater says:

      Chic Mc Gregor 1pm

      She should start by getting the worst benefit scroungers into gainful employment, the royal family and the House of Lords.

      That would free up office space for when she relocates the function of ATOS to the UK. Assuming post brexit it will not remain in France.

      She could rename it the House of Lourdes then because you would go in disabled and come out fit for work.

      Many a true word spoken in jest, unfortunately these parasites will continue to suck at the public teat,they have no shame. Meanwhile foodbanks are increasing,more people are homeless, please people of Scotland get us out of this asylum have you not had enough of this sickening outrage

    75. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Off-Topic, but

      BBC’s Scottish Editor Sarah Smith on the National News, live from Washington DC – on St Andrew’s Day!!

      The BBC could send her to Washington DC, but, couldn’t send her to Dublin to fill her day job and cover the First Minister’s trip there.

      Nicola Sturgeon must resign.

    76. Hamish100 says:

      Must be meeting up with Cook and other ex-pats rewarded after Indy ref 1. Must be up to something? Strange how she never got cut off.

    77. Bill says:

      Stu,

      Did you just see that convo? Still think I’m wrong about that tool.

    78. Tam Jardine says:

      mealer 3.28pm

      Not sure how to isolate that wee clip but someone with the ability should go to 12.15 in the commons today and distribute far and wide. Imagine Angus being his professional, courteous self as usual wishing everyone a happy St Andrews Day and the tory benches (who knows- maybe labour too) erupt into jeering and baying.

      What a bunch of xenophobic aresholes. “right honourable”? Aye- right! Most of them you wouldnae even have in your hoose. These bastards have been robbing us blind for years- they stole our referendum from us and now we are not even welcome in the UK Parliament.

      They should be thankful the Scots are such a forgiving, peaceful, tolerant people committed to the democratic process… any other nation would I am sure have raised an army and burnt the entire midden to the ground by now.

      Once article 50 is triggered and the economy goes into meltdown call an indyref and we will win it. We’ll throw everything at it and win it. Then stay in the EU, ditch the royals and get the popcorn in for when Nicola is made EU President.

    79. CameronB Brodie says:

      Tam Jardine
      I’ve always liked your optimism and ambition for something better. 🙂

    80. Bill says:

      Tam

      That’s insightful, imagine Nicola as EU president and England demanding trade agreements?

    81. yesindyref2 at 5.20

      And don’t you think having a lot of money now might just help to speed the process along?
      How many nods and winks do we need?

    82. gus1940 says:

      Today I have read the on-line versions of the following London based blats:- Mail, Express, Independent, Guardian and Telegraph plus the main UK BBC on-line site and nowhere can I find the slightest trace of a report on Nicola’s triumphant visit to Dublin.

      Perhaps it never happened and we all just imagined it.

      One thing this blatant news manipulation shows is that The Guys In The Black Hats are bloody terrified of Indyref2.

      On a lighter note has anybody else noticed the amazing resemblance to each other of May & Hammond to the extent that they could pass for brother and sister or is it just my imagination?.

    83. CameronB Brodie says:

      @gerryhassan
      If you’ve not got the message, my scientific appreciation of Scotland’s condition is superior to your ideological interpretation. Wind your neck in or I will be forced to go-to-town on your ego, loosen some of that social capital of yours, coitus-knuckles.

    84. Stoker says:

      WOS archive links for April 2012 now over on O/T.

    85. CameronB Brodie says:

      @gerryhassan
      Mind now, my solutions of synthesis are kept sharp through an appreciation of contemporary social science methodologies of analysis and shit. Ken fit eh mean?

    86. Glamaig says:

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/09118eb8-a027-4e6a-a6ae-7de9252e137b

      watch Mhairi Black at 18:38 on womens pensions – awesome! Hey Labour MPs, thats how its done.

    87. Tam Jardine says:

      CameronB Brodie & Bill

      Thanks. I have to say that the post above is the edited-to-avoid-offending-lurkers or being arrested version.

      Compare and contrast the reception of Scotland’s MPs in the commons today with the First Minister’s reception in Dublin. It could not be more stark.

      Of course the media will never show us either. If the contrast was shown to the country the dam would burst. The media have been holding back the tide for ages but the cracks are spreading.

      Incidentally, I have a mate who, had he been present in the commons today would have certainly waded into the government benches with heed and hauns.

      It is amazing how they can’t help themselves though. The UK gov could have cut the knees off the SNP following the indyref by giving them enough of what they asked for and treating our MPs and our country with respect and friendship. We would have had nowhere to go but these clowns don’t have it in them…. instead they treat Scotland like shit riling everyone up.

    88. yesindyref2 says:

      I think I expected the slight drop in Indy support, from 48% back to 45% (well, as it turns out 44%), 3 or 4 weeks back. Attention is being drawn on the EU, but mostly via the single market which of course Sturgeon is reported as trying to keep us in. That’s bound to hack off a few people who want EU totally, not just single market. “Why is Sturgeon wasting her time?”.

      But meanwhile I think that’s a genuine increase in support for Remaining in the EU, up 3% points to 65%. And meanwhile too, Sturgeon doing her best to honour both referendums, the 55% stay in the UK and the 62% Remain in the EU is impressing a lot of people in the EU itself. And in Scotland. Maybe if we’re lucky, really really lucky, we’ll get some more definitive indications from EU foreign ministers, Brexit negotiators for each member, perhaps even the top people. Along the lines of Verhofstadt at least in that youtube clip. The route to Indy is the EU.

      For those Indy supporters who want to Leave the EU, it ain’t that bad:

      https://yesindyref2.wordpress.com/

    89. gus1940 at 7.11

      Don’t worry the Scottish Sun gave it about half a paragraph on page 399 although about half of that was Ruth Davidson’s reaction.

    90. bugsbunny says:

      Fecking Daily Mail gloating about a drop in people wanting independence from 44.8% to 44.something %. That could be 44.7%. A SLUMP IN INDEPENDENCE?

      They are having a fecking laugh.

      The graph is twice as tall at 56% than at 44%.

      As the Mail would like you to forget, “Hurrah for the Blackshirts”.

    91. Artyhetty says:

      I think Flo and Joan could update their take on 2016, anyone seen this? It is a bit sweary and they are a bit crude, politiely, but quite a good take on 2016 so far.

      https://www.facebook.com/floandjoan/

      If we did a Scottish one, it would be hours long! Sorry about the https,not sure how to get rid if it.

      Still time yet for it to go even more bottoms up girls!

    92. Stoker says:

      Artyhetty (@8:00pm)

      Arty, the only time you need to drop the https:// part is when you’re trying to link to Youtube videos. If you want to learn the simple process just give out a shout and i’m sure someone will help.

    93. Tam Jardine says:

      yesindyref2

      Everything will change with 2 upcoming events- the Supreme Court appeal and (if it ever happens) Article 50. Polls now are irrelevant IMHO. Happy to see pro-indy hold up after the media onslaught 24-7.

      OT Are you aware of the EU team? I was reading on the herald of
      Catalan MEP Josep Maria Terricabras (pro Scottish indy) being on the team of 12. I know of Guy Verhofstadt (pro Scottish indy) and there is a Sinn Fein MEP on there too who I would guess would be very much in our camp.

      I couldn’t find any more information or a list of the full team of 12 David Leask mentions.

    94. Meg merrilees says:

      Macart@ 2.36pm

      Thanks for the link to Angus Robertson and the St Andrew’s jeering in Westminster.

      The link led to Mhairi Black speaking on WASPI issues @ 18.38:56

      Don’t know if you can still access it but if so have a listen, Mhairi was absolutely magnificent – what an amazing MP. If anyone knows how to access and copy out Mhairi’s speech it is def worth the effort and colleagues would appreciate hearing her speak. Wow!

      http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/09118eb8-a027-4e6a-a6ae-7de9252e137b

    95. @Bob Mack

      Looks like I communicated that badly, sorry Bob.

      I quite agree with your comment. My point was rather that Social Security has to be livable because, as you said, it isn’t an option, and most people don’t choose not to work. I am very mush aware that I happen to be in the fortunate position of living in a country where this is possible, and I certainly wasn’t planning some self-righteous scoring off people who don’t have that option. Sorry if it cameover that way.

      My main, and apparently poorly made point, was that in my case, it doesn’t make economic sense to stop it, because by letting me retrain, the government ensures they get more back in the long run. This isn’t always the case of course, but I was struck by the irony that the Tories are following a policy that will reduce people’s earning capability and cost the state more, in the name of saving money. I appreciate this isn’t an isolated incident,just one that touches me personally.

      I’m fully aware that some people see, and indeed have no alternative but to live on social security and for them this is a particularly nasty policy. One of the great things about my new job as an Occupational Therapist is that I get to help people who believed they have no hope and assist them to get their lives back together, maybe even get them to a point where they can choose to work again.

    96. Bob Mack says:

      @Andy in Germany,

      I wish you well as an o/t. I used to work with several who provided an invaluable service providing life and coping skills to many. A very worthwhile and rewarding job which I hope you enjoy.

    97. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam
      Might be able to work it out from here, that’s the political groups in the EU Parliament.

      http://www.europarl.europa.eu/meps/en/hemicycle.html

      Just having my tea, hit morisons as the double price cut gun was going so I’m still gluttoning 🙂

    98. Andrew Mclean says:

      Did thatcher blow Satan in hell for the chance to be reanimated? and returning to the surface in her decrepitude, donned the skin of some poor woman victim and is now serving as the unelected prime minister of this bastard union?

      Just asking like?

    99. yesindyref2 says:

      @Tam
      Oh yes, apparently Michel Barnier doesn’t like the UK. Well, who does? Sad but true, the UK has been a spoilt brat in the EU.

    100. Phronesis says:

      A well-functioning social security system is essential for stability across a number of domains- economic growth, social and political stability. This maintains the social contract between generations and the social contract between government and its electorate.

      If this UK government was given marks out of 10 for its appreciation of the human spirit (the traits of empathy, respect, generosity, connection, emotional bonding and identifying with the other) it’s safe to say it would get a big fat zero or possibly a negative mark.

      When this UK government talks about the welfare state- viewed only through the lens of benefits (and not the broader inter-connected aspects of social protection- education, pensions, affordable housing etc)- it reveals its deep hostility towards the Public and the use of government resource to protect and empower all its citizens.

      Prosperity, a life well lived and access to human rights is for a select and entitled few. A punitive agenda is meted out to the rest because of their inferior social,legal, economic and political status.

      Aside from their flawed ideologies this regime isn’t particularly efficient at ‘reforming’ the welfare provision-despite the millions of pounds spent and planning hours to implement the ‘reforms’. Monies that could have been better used to implement inclusive and progressive policies.

      The National Audit Office has awarded the UK Govt a fail in its assessment of UK Government’s much heralded sanctions system as a method of getting the feckless classes into work;

      ‘The Department for Work & Pensions (DWP) is not doing enough to find out how sanctions affect people on benefits, according to today’s report from the National Audit Office.
      International studies show people who receive sanctions are more likely to get work, but the effect can be short-lived, lead to lower wages and increase the number of people moving off benefits into inactivity. The DWP has not used its own data to evaluate the impact of sanctions in the UK. The NAO undertook preliminary analysis of the impact of Work Programme sanctions on employment, inactivity and earnings. The results show the Department should do more to understand these sanctions outcomes.
      Sanctions have costs, for people who receive them and for the government. The Department does not track the costs and benefits of sanctions, but estimates that it spends £30-50 million a year applying sanctions, and around £200 million monitoring the conditions it sets for claimants. The NAO estimates the Department withheld £132 million from claimants due to sanctions in 2015, and paid them £35 million in hardship payments. The overall impact of sanctions on wider public spending is unknown’

      https://www.nao.org.uk/report/benefit-sanctions/

      Of course many supportive agencies who work with those who are seeking work, living in work poverty, have long term conditions that affect their ability to work e.g. mental health issues could have saved the UK government the trouble of spending the nation’s millions to cause harm to its electorate. Unlike this UK Government they do understand the causes and effects of rising poverty, job insecurity and unequal shares in economic growth on the human spirit.

    101. yesindyref2 says:

      Josep Maria Terricabras is a member of the Group of the Greens/European Free Alliance which is almost a pity, I think they’re on our side anyway! It’s the group the SNP MEPs are in, as well as the Greens.

    102. Tam Jardine says:

      Andrew Mclean 8.42pm

      That is pretty much what happened

    103. Artyhetty says:

      Stoker@8.08

      Thanks, that is helpful nd I will certainly do that.

      I feel so incredibly sorry for the many people who are out of work, like my brother, not well but wants to so desperately work out his last two years before retirement age, he is 63. He has been sent from pillar to post, on a waste of time work programmes and then temp work. And all the time it has been PRIVATE companies, making huge profits, supposedly helping him find non existent work in NE england. These companies are profiting from people, from all of us, we all pay tax, income or via VAT. It sickens me to the core.

      To demonise the most vulnerable, and or those who have been failed by the so called government in WM, is just utterly criminal.

      To divide people, by blaming the poor and jobless for their predicament, is evil. To deny people a right to life is illegal, we are still in the EU and we still have human rights, but by god, just wait until the right wing UKOKGov scrap the Human Rights Act.

      As has been pointed out, all manner of circumstances can lead to having to rely on state support to live, or even just exist.

      I fear that an extreme right wing regime will continue to show no mercy for our disabled, which can take many forms, autism, learning difficulty or disability, invisible disability as my son often says, the sick, jobless, homeless, those suffering depression and from mental health problems.

      Scotland needs out of this backward, destructive UK as soon as possible.

    104. Ken500 says:

      Michael Gove is a despicable creature. What a trouble stirring accomplished liar. How low can the Tories go? They are just beyond belief. It is because of the Iraq war etc that there is the biggest migration crisis in Europe since 11WW. That is why more migrants come to the UK. Michael Gove use the situation and tries to blame the victims to line his pockets with public money.

      Gove is an illegal chancer of the first order. In the pay and taking bribes from the tax evading Non Dom MSM owners who are illegally bribing public officials. Him and his associate wife. A lying ‘journalist’. He even backstabbed his own associates. A total contemptible liar. Give got a totally free scholarship. A totally free university education at Oxford with a Grant. He brought in Student fees of £9000. How people can vote for such an evil conman is a mystery.

    105. Rock says:

      O/T

      The Greens, who stood a candidate against the SNP and allowed the Tory viceroy of Scotland to be re-elected, have stood aside in a London by-election tomorrow to give the Lib Dem candidate a better chance to unsit the Tory.

      The Greens are utter hypocrites. If you want independence, don’t vote for them at any level.

      SNP all the way until after independence.

    106. Ken500 says:

      Mhairi Black is absolutely brilliant. The expression on the Tories vacant coupons is priceless. They don’t know what’s hit them. Sycophants ‘psycho bastards’.

      How much longer can this farce continue?

    107. EurActive’s Brexit ‘power’ list has T May first, Angela Merkel second, and in third position Nicola Sturgeon. http://archive.is/DPX2C

    108. john young says:

      When are we going to tell these fcuks to get lost can,t fly the Saltire in our own country,stop taking a backseat and show some bottle.

    109. Capella says:

      Theresa May’s husband, Philip, is an investment banker with Capital Group.

      “As reported in the Private Eye, No. 1429, the UK arm of the Capital Group, Capital International Ltd has not paid corporation tax in the UK since 2009.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Group_Companies

      Scroungers.

    110. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      O/T

      Boris The Clown prince of Brexit privately tells at least 4 Ambassadors of EU Countries that he is personally in favour of Free Movement of people.

    111. call me dave says:

      Mhairi Black is absolutely brilliant.

      Agreed! 🙂

      The volatiley oily thing which is not Scotland’s

      http://archive.is/z7WM4

    112. Gary45% says:

      Dave McEwan Hill@7.51.
      Christ I read it as Ruth Davidsons er*ction, I nearly choked on my Horlicks.
      Not long back from a great evening with the wee G dug,
      He really is bigger than you think!!

    113. Ken500 says:

      S. Smith on a jolly to back to Washington. Nepotism. House of Lords, Labour broadcasting connections, troughing on public money. Yet no report from Dublin. Robertson a relation. Supports Trident and illegal wars. Iraq and Dunblane under a 100 years Official Secret Act. To cover up Labour complicity.

    114. Macart says:

      @Meg meriless

      RE: Mhairi Black

      That young lady is an awesome talent.

      @Tam Jardine 6.50

      Pretty much what was running through my mind (including the self editing).

      The lack of respect shown our representatives was utterly despicable. Contrast with the exceptional reception shown our FM in Dublin.

      Honourable? Respectful? The Westminster Commons doesn’t know the meaning of those words and to act in such a manner toward representatives of a nation partner was shameful.

      At what point do people say ‘enough’?

      How often do our representatives have to be denigrated, our culture, our history, our politics and our identity mocked. A butt of playground jokes and casual ethnic bigotry? These pricks jeer whilst significant numbers of our population are reduced to poverty, starvation and hardship. They play stupid power games bringing the economies of the home nations to a cliff edge and a constitutional crisis to our doorsteps. They send their media attack dogs to smear, belittle and divide our society, trash the reputations of our institutions and STILL they demand loyalty, trust and taxes of the very people they shit upon from a great height.

      I couldn’t be a politician on a bet Tam and that’s a fact. The temptation to walk across that chamber and slap some over privileged sneering twat silly would definitely prove too much in my case.

      That takes a level of self control and an ability to turn the other cheek that I don’t possess. They don’t pay anyone enough to take that shit on a daily basis.

    115. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Occupational Therapists. I saw one once, after being transferred from the neurosurgical intensive care ward I had spent a month in.

      Therapists: Can you put you trousers on by yourself?

      Me: Just about.

      Therapists: You’ll be alright then kid. She was right. 🙂

      Scotland can rebuild itself to prosper as an inclusive, progressive society, given the chance.

    116. Ken500 says:

      The only reason Scottish Oil & Gas sector is improving is the tax was reduced to 40% in Jan 2016.
      Still too high because of the price fall. Even though new fields have been found.

      Osbourne increased the tax by 11% (£2Billion) to 80% in the 2010 Budget. It was reduced back to 60% but the price had fallen 75%. Osbourne kept it too high. Either through ignorant incompetence or malicious spite. To try and damage Independence? Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Now untaxed fracked Gas from the US and Gas from Norway etc is being imported. The Tories stopped coal production in the UK. Coal is imported. They reduced funding and investment in Renewables. Banned onshore wind turbines. A cheaper, cleaner option.

      The Tories reneged on promised CCS projects and cut funding for renewables. They are spending £Billions over budget on Hinkley Point. Wasting £Billions on HS2, Heathrow and Trident. Cutting NHS/Education funding.

    117. ScottishPsyche says:

      Alex Massie on Scotland Tonight looking tired and emotional. Seems a bit upset and making all sorts of odd claims about the SNP questionnaire.

      He’s dressed up as if he’s been at a St. Andrews dinner dance at Tory Central.

    118. Thepnr says:

      Anybody think there might be some merit in conducting our own polling?

      I’m thinking of that YouGov poll published today and it looks distinctly dodgy. What I’m talking of is the people asked compared to the weighting.

      For example if you ask 200 people born in the UK outside of Scotland if they favour Independence you will get a certain result, now even after weighting and halving that number to 100 the result I’m guessing will generally be the same.

      In other words if they asked 1000 people born in the UK but not is Scotalnd if they favour Independence then weighted that to 100 it still would not represent the population of Scotland.

      That is what seems to be the case with todays published poll.

      Birthplace
      Scotland 824 930
      Rest of the UK 222 113
      Outside UK 88 91

      The first figure is the number responding and the second the weighted response. Rest of the UK is grossly over represented in the initial sample and I believe skews the overall answers.

      Is this tactic deliberate? It could be, so I think WE should conduct our own polls. There are 59 UK parliamentary constituencies, a couple of volunteers in each gathering 20 or so opinions would give a representative sample of around 1200 people.

      It wouldn’t be too difficult to set up a website where the results of the polling could be input by registered users and data analysed. I’m not so naive as to think this method would not be open to abuse but over time the rogues would be spotted and could be eliminated.

      Especially when it comes to a second referendum, if we had something half decent for conducting an exit poll then it has to be better than nothing. You’ve probably guessed i don’t trust polling companies or the UKOK media that commission them.

      Monthly polls free of charge other than the time spent by Wingers gathering the views of other Scots. Am I deluded?

      I’d be interested in any views, supportive or dismissive.

    119. David Mooney says:

      O/T Watching Scotland 2016. Is Simon Pia on crack. No way is that fud a yesser.

      “Hold out an Olive branch to Labour and Lib Dems” he says, trying to sound reasonable. Forgetting that SLab and the FibDems have an obsessive hatred of the SNP which borders on the psychotic.

    120. Robert Peffers says:

      @Legerwood says: 30 November, 2016 at 1:26 pm:

      “Perhaps my hearing is defective but I have listened to the clip several times and she says that she believes in a system where people can live on benefits.”

      Nah! Legerwood, Yer hearings good enough but you comprehension is not.

      Listen again and what she says is she believes in a system “That helps people back into work. Not until the very end does she mention, “even live on benefits.” Yet no mention that the jobs they force folks into pay much less than the benefits that are themselves below subsistence level. You do know that sick and disabled people are dying and even killing themselves under this cruel system don’t you?

      Those statistics are real – not a fiction.

      Her priorities are forcing sick, old and disabled people into work and no mention that they may be unable to work. Then it is, “even to live on benefits”.

      The whole point of benefits is to care for those who cannot work. The job of creating work for those who can works is the government’s job. Basically these cruel Tory idiots are attempting to force people who are too disabled or ill into jobs that do not exist.

      We are in a situation where there just are not enough jobs for everyone. Look at the unemployment figures. The way to get people into work is to create an economy that is crying out for workers. Now correct me if I am wrong but is there always claims by business, both big and small that those leaving education do not have the skills that business requires?

      I left school in the early 1950s and went right into a five year apprenticeship. It was not one o those that had the apprentice used as the stores boy or the tea laddie.

      We had a lecture to attend first thing every morning and then study and write up our notes. We had two days at college each week and two nights night school. It was intensive training. What’s more I had to go on courses every year to keep up with the newest equipment.

      Where are there training like that these days? And how many employers even do any training of staff? They do though complain that the tax payer isn’t training folk for them. That’s the Tory way.

    121. Ghillie says:

      Happy St Andrew’s Day folks!

      Happy Happy Birthday Capella = )

      Maureen,(@ 2.12pm) good luck. We all need to remember that there, but for the grace of God, go any one of us. And proper welfare should be there as a safety net for us all, whatever our circumstances.

      I am delighted that the SNP are considering the Citizens’s Basic Income for everyone. On top of a sense of security, I think one brilliant outcome will be a flourishing of creativity and invention.

      As for Westminster, Tam you are so right, it is a proper midden!

      But wasn’t our Mhairi brilliant = )
      Thank you Smallaxe @ 8.44pm = )

    122. HandandShrimp says:

      May doesn’t even make an attempt to sound pleasant. She seems to actual model herself on some Dickensian villain. Perhaps Marley will pay her a visit on Christmas Eve.

    123. Capella says:

      @ Thepnr – always check out Scot Goes Pop when there’s a poll. He has a knack of showing how the glass is actually quite full.

      Would you support or oppose Scotland seeking to negotiate with the European Union to remain part of the EU after the rest of Britain leaves?

      Support 42%
      Oppose 41%

      The subsequent question reveals that, by a massive 62%-22% margin, people understand that independence will be required to remain in the EU after Brexit.

      http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2016/11/yougov-poll-finds-that-scotland-is.html

    124. Thepnr says:

      @Capella

      Yeah, read that. Always look for Mr Kellys opinion on the polls. See here what Prof Poultice thinks. Not bonny as would be expected.

      http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2016/11/yougov-mark-st-andrews-day/

    125. Robert Peffers says:

      @CameronB Brodie says: 30 November, 2016 at 2:15 pm:

      “Someone please help the lad.”

      Sorry, Cameron B, but Murdo was sanctioned by the Cybernat panel, he will have to go out and get a job or his state benefit will stop.

      It is poetic justice that these political numpties can, and will, be sanctioned by the voters on election day.

    126. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert Peffers
      I only meant show him kindness. As he stands in opposition to the legitimisation of my humanity, the Tory fud can whistle for anything more concrete in the way of social support, IMHO.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    127. Thepnr says:

      I don’t think it’s a problem of those that commentate on the polls, much more so the polls themselves that are flawed. Who knows? Maybe even manipulated depending who’s paying, the Times in this case.

      http://blog.whatscotlandthinks.org/2016/11/yougov-mark-st-andrews-day/

      Do our own poll, unscientific and full of flaws. Can’t be that much worse than what we already have IMO and can only get better.

      I think that poll just depressed me but that’s what it was meant to do. I’d prefer to fight back as I don’t trust a single Unionist institution and there can be no doubt that is exactly what YouGov is.

    128. Tam Jardine says:

      Anything that is good news for the SNP or the wider independence movement will suffer a news black out.

      Anything bad for the unionists like tory electoral expenses being investigated by the police- news blackout.

      North Lanarkshire slab council accused of nepotism on a grand scale: news blackout.

      Any of these events are generally followed by some kind of negative poll or “blow for sturgeon” etc etc. See the absurd rubbish Tom Gordon put his name to in the herald on election spending by the SNP- perhaps the weakest contribution ever made by a journalist.

      It means the brown stuff is running down their legs. We won’t accept Brexit and the Lord Advocate may well derail the whole process.

      It has been a long stint listening to all the negative crap but it will not last forever. I don’t want my children growing up in a country controlled by our neighbours with their endless propaganda. There is something more powerful than propaganda and that is the truth.

    129. Lenny Hartley says:

      Thepnr , good idea but we need to get James Kelly or somebody versed in polls to give advice. I would imagine even where you ask people will give differing results, ie different demographics using M+S to Lidl etc.
      Anyway count me in for Arran and any excuse for a day trip to Sunny Saltcoats 🙂

    130. Capella says:

      @ Ghillie – Merci Beaucoups. It’s been a great day cheered by the melancholy thoughts of Henri le Chat, philosopher, antidote to Westminster angst:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8jJuTYfa_E

      Back to normal tomorrow 🙂

    131. Robert Graham says:

      Can you imagine the other European leaders sitting listening to this squawking ,screechy ,clone of thatcher with her stop ,start, bloody grating voice that could strip paint , I can’t see negotiations taking long as they will be queuing up at the fire Exits to get out of earshot of her ,she makes the sound of someone scratching a blackboard sound soothing .

    132. Mhairi, I don’t know if you read “Wings” or no, but if yie dae I’m in your gang any day of the week.

    133. Capella says:

      From RT
      UN ruling to free WikiLeaks’ Assange to stand after British appeal rejected

      https://www.rt.com/news/368746-un-ruling-free-assange/

    134. Still Positive. says:

      Belated Happy Birthday, Capella. Hope you had a good day.

    135. Robert Peffers says:

      @orri says: 30 November, 2016 at 3:12 pm:

      ” … the last time the royal assent was not given was in 1704 during the reign of Queen Anne. This does not mean that the right to refuse has died:

      Nah! Orri – where is your comprehension of the English language and your knowledge of history?

      There was NO united Kingdom in 1704 in the reign of Queen Anne for both the Kingdom of England, (A thre country constitutional monarchy, with a still sovereign monarch), and the Kingdom of Scotland that has no sovereign monarchy. The United Kingdom only came into being on 1st May 1707.

      Furthermore the Treaty and act of Union stipulate very clearly that the law of Scotland is sacrosanct in perpetuity and Scots law is based upon the people, not the crown, being sovereign.

      So anything before the 1st May 1707 cannot legally apply to Scotland. The article of union that states Scots law remains independent could not be clearer.

    136. Legerwood says:

      Robert @ 11.13

      Nothing wrong with my comprehension which you would have realised if you had read my original post properly.

      I am very well aware of the damage that these policies are doing to people’s lives and need no patronising lessons in that from you or in how things used to be.

    137. Smallaxe says:

      Ghillie:11-16 pm

      Glad I was able to help.

      Peace Always

    138. Dr Jim says:

      Don’t let this one organised UK Guv poll dishearten anyone
      the real poll is coming now that the counting of real peoples opinions are in
      Most SNP members will have their seasons greetings card from the FM within the next couple of days and contained therein is another document asking for donations to make sure we’re not outspent by the opposition at the next Indyref

      The FM wouldn’t be asking that if there wasn’t going to be one would she, so given that there is going to be one, that means the SNP think we can win it, which subsequently follows that they don’t just think we can win it they’re confident we will win it

      When you have dyed in the wool Labour Yoon suck ups like Simon Pia stating he’s a Yesser on TV, although not really meaning it what he’s saying is the SNP are going to win so I’ll just keep on the right side of the argument for later

      In other news Willie Rennie is off to Brussels tomorrow for a meeting with Guy Verhofstadt in the hope of putting the boot in to the FMs strategy (He’ll have no joy) Alyn Smith is well liked by all in Brussels but they just Luurv the FM to bits
      Anyway why aren’t the Yoons complaining about Wee Willie flouncing around Europe and not staying at home helping to work together for Yoondom to be better together at not having a Scooby about what they’re doing

      Keep the faith pals

      BTW We’ll see an upsurge in concern trolling over the next wee while as the pretendy Yessers ply their trade in doubt sowing with all the usual phrases (disappointing) (discouraged) (upsetting) usually included are also the threats (If the SNP don’t do….something I’m voting NO) (I was Yes but I feel let down) blah blah blah

      Treat all these imposters the same
      I find a good written sound is Mbwaahahahaa!

    139. Thepnr says:

      @Lenny Hartley

      I have emailed James Kelly for his opinion on taking this idea forward. Better than doing nothing and I have hope it may prove fruitful.

    140. mr thms says:

      #gus1940 @ 7:11 pm

      “Today I have read the on-line versions of the following London based blats:- Mail, Express, Independent, Guardian and Telegraph plus the main UK BBC on-line site and nowhere can I find the slightest trace of a report on Nicola’s triumphant visit to Dublin.

      Perhaps it never happened and we all just imagined it.”

      Hope this one makes up for their oversight..

      http://www.itv.com/news/border/2016-11-29/sturgeons-independence-stance-lauded-by-irelands-senate/

      “Sturgeon’s independence stance lauded by Ireland’s Senate”

      by Peter MacMahon

      ITV Border Political Editor in Dublin

    141. EurActive has drawn up a Brexit ‘power’ list of those who will have significant influence in the proceedings. It has T May first, Angela Merkel second and in third position Nicola Sturgeon. Shows the regard with which our First Minister is now held n Europe. http://archive.is/DPX2C

    142. yesindyref2 says:

      I wouldn’t worry about the Yougov poll, all Sturgeon and the SNP are doing right now is keep Independence out there, to remind people – and provoke them. I take my cue from the SNP twitter, unusually for me as I’m a cynic, but this was tweeted at 4.47 am St Andrews Day – someone else burning the midnight oil (it’s all oors). Drive at the moment is EU – and even alternatives like EFTA / EEA, with a bit of water testing about currency. You dip the left toe in, the right toe out, in out in out shake it all about.

      Check out average’s tweet – he messed that one up didn’t he in his desperate haste to retaliate! I only noticed the second time of looking just now. What a prat. I like to rile them up a bit at times as well, they’re switching from one position to the other in their desperate attempts to be anti-SNP and anti-Indy. What a laugh.

      https://twitter.com/theSNP/status/803943491151822848

    143. CameronB Brodie says:

      @kevverage
      Not figured out yet that your ill-equipped to face an onslaught of post-modern social science theory, GRAPH-BOY? Don’t worry fud, I’ve not forgotten about you, I’m just waiting for an opportune moment to stamp on your ego and rip your yoon-cult psyche apart. Ken fir eh mean? I certainly do.

      Sweet dreams. 😉

    144. Quinie frae Angus says:

      Hi all

      Haven’t posted anything for months but am gradually getting time back in my life to follow the Wings threads again.

      I was about to post a comment on the appalling treatment of Angus Robertson and Mhairi Black in that House today when I read Macart’s post above at 10.32 pm.

      Can’t express it any better than he did here and I think it’s worth repeating:

      “The lack of respect shown our representatives was utterly despicable. Contrast with the exceptional reception shown our FM in Dublin.

      Honourable? Respectful? The Westminster Commons doesn’t know the meaning of those words and to act in such a manner toward representatives of a nation partner was shameful.

      At what point do people say ‘enough’?

      How often do our representatives have to be denigrated, our culture, our history, our politics and our identity mocked. A butt of playground jokes and casual ethnic bigotry? These pricks jeer whilst significant numbers of our population are reduced to poverty, starvation and hardship. They play stupid power games bringing the economies of the home nations to a cliff edge and a constitutional crisis to our doorsteps. They send their media attack dogs to smear, belittle and divide our society, trash the reputations of our institutions and STILL they demand loyalty, trust and taxes of the very people they shit upon from a great height.”

    145. Joannie says:

      That ITV report is funny, they seem afraid that the Irish Senators will turn Nicola Sturgeon’s head! I’d say she has her head well screwed on somehow.

    146. mr thms says:

      #yesindyref2 @ 1:04 am

      “I wouldn’t worry about the Yougov poll”

      I’m not. With Simom Pia was on Scotland 2016 last night and he was saying he was now Yes, after the result of the EU referendum! If can change to Yes, then I can see the next referendum when it comes, will be a resounding Yes. He also said the SNP should work with the Scottish Greens, Labour and the Lib-Dems. He even suggested a seat for Labour in the Nicola Sturgeon’s Cabinet!

      Can you imagine Kezia Dugdale as the Finance Secretary? That’s my suggestion.. Not his 😉

    147. Maureen says:

      Thanks Ghillie, yes it’s a worrying time for anyone similarly affected and as you say, but for the grace of god.

    148. Ken500 says:

      Hammond coming to Scotland. He might like to visit Glasgow. He described the area around Faslane as ‘a wasteland’. It would be if he got his way. He sneered and laughed at the thought of Scotland being Independent and having a Navy to patrol it’s shores.

      The Tories who ruined the Oil & Gas sector with illegally high taxes when the price had fallen 75%. Taxing the Oil & Gas sector 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. It is now 40% since Jan 2016. Still too high to be viable when prices are lower, Yet Hammond wants to cut Corporation tax to 17%. Importing untaxed fracked Gas from the US and Gas from Norway.

      Starving and sanctioning the vulnerable to death. Illegal wars bombing the Middle East to bits for years, and causing the biggest migrantion crisis in Europe since 11WW. Creating £Trillions of debt. Trying to ruin the world economy. The Tory/Unionists are despicable, Taking £Billions out of Scotland illegally and secretly for years and still doing it. Trident, illegal wars, tax evasion. Lying and denying Scotland FFA and control over spending. Not honouring promises.

      47% and rising is a good place to start for another Indy Ref. It gained over 10% the last campaign. Send Hammond hone to think again. Hammond the Hammer of people in Scotland. Robbing the poor to pay for the richer. The UK is the most unequal place in the world. With some of qthe most debt. TheTories are ‘psycho bastards’. Lying, manipulating greedy fraudsters.

      Just wait till Article 50 is triggered some Unionists in Scotland will be howling for Independencee. The Tories will drag the mess on for 4 years, Until someone else will have to clean up their mess. The poison chalice. They are despicible. Just as well for the SNP Gov protecting Scotland. Keeping unemployment down. Scotland have had near full employment if the Tories hadn’t ruined the Oil & Gas sector.

      The Greens cost the last Indy Ref. They could cost Scotland the next. With their ill conceived policies that people do not want. They turn more people off than they turn on. The thought of a Labour take over. After fifty years of a Labour. Is a step too far. Their mismanagement and hypocrisy is there to see. The Union costs Scotland £20Billion+ a year. Too much. The EU costs Scotland £1Billion and it all comes back with benefits,

    149. Sharny Dubs says:

      Says it all really doesn’t it…..

    150. Orri says:

      The point I was making was that, in English Law at least, the refusal to give Royal Assent is a Royal Prerogative. Given how RP is devolved for devolved matters that means that the First Minister of Scotland can advise the Queen to refuse to sign of on any Westminster decisions rather than going through a tedious ping pong of repealing them each time they get enacted. Perhaps this is one of the reasons the Sewel Convention is being made more binding.

      The Declaration of Arbroath means that the Queen can’t put her role as Queen of England above that as Queen of Scots which would imply that by her coronation oath she might even be advised on withholding assent even if it were the case such a prerogative didn’t exist in Scotland.

    151. Cactus says:

      December mornin’.. hope y’all had a good X day citizens of Scotland.

      It’s important to mark it, always.

      It feels like the preindyref simmer-heat has gone up to Gas Mark 2 and is on the increase, not long till Scotland’s kettle comes to boil.

      30th of November
      1st of January
      25th of January

      The dates above are historically about Scotland & Scotland’s people and culture, ye know, us. I’m claiming it. During our first year of being independent with independence.. from X day forwards, it’s gonna be one helluva party!

      30 and a bit days to go till Auld Lang Syne. 🙂
      X.

    152. Cactus says:

      In fact, make that second one..

      31st of December / 1st of January

      It all happens in between. Time to get some coal for my neighbours for the new year.

    153. One_Scot says:

      Polls Schmolls. Massaged Tory funded polls are merely a blunt tool used to try and influence opinion rather than reflect it.

      To be honest it’s all they have now to try and keep Scotland down, (now that all of their scare stories have happened under the union), and they will keep spewing them out at percentages that they think will help their political agenda.

      Not convinced many still fall for them any more, and the Yoon media and Twatter Yoons jumping on them for headline sensationalism just looks pathetically contrived.

      Tick Tock as they say. The only poll that matters is the IndyRef2 one. Let’s hope they don’t manage to manipulate that one.

    154. Macart says:

      I see the motion to investigate Mr Blair’s misleading parliament and more importantly the electorate, has been defeated and thrown out. Quite convincingly at that 439-70.

      He’s as guilty as they come with an ocean of misery in his wake and he’ll never see day 1 behind bars. The precedent of investigating the actions of past PMs and holding them to account for their actions was never going to fly, though great credit to Mr Salmond and the cross party group who attempted the feat.

      No, Westminster’s MPs couldn’t allow that to occur could they? That investigation would have turned over a great many rocks. Explanations as to how Blair was able to take the UK to war on a lie would be examined and that would never do. So whitewash it is then.

      The best that could and can be expected is that the monsters legacy is tainted by Chilcot and history.

      And if you think history can’t repeat itself,that we’d never go to war on a lie again as part of this political union? Firstly, that whitewash ensures that we can and secondly? Have you been paying attention to 2016?

    155. CameronB Brodie says:

      @kevverage
      It might surprise you to learn that I don’t like being nasty, I’m not naturally a bully. It’s just that all you flat-head yoon bigots bring out the monstar in me. Don’t believe me, I’ll help hand to develop your understanding of the subject you claim expertise in and introduce you to some of the forces you oppose.

      Care to indicate where do your crappy, anti-scientific graphs fit in to the equation of post-modern change, GRAPH-BOY?

      Differential Coalitional Consciousness: The End of Domination

      In 1991, East Indian feminist theorist Chandra Talpade Mohanty reminded feminists of color that it is not enough to be “a woman,” “poor,” “Black or Latino” to “assume a politicized oppositional identity.” What is required, as Fredric Jameson has insisted, is a specific methodology that can be used as a compass for self-consciously organizing resistance, identity, praxis, and coalition under contemporary U.S., late-capitalist cultural conditions.58 Differential consciousness and social movement comprise the radical form of cognitive mapping that Jameson seeks.

      This theory and method under-stands oppositional forms of consciousness, aesthetics, and politics as organized around the following five points of resistance to U.S. social hierarchy: (1) the equal-rights (“liberal,” and/or “integrationist”) mode; (2) the revolutionary (“socialist” and/or “insurgent”) mode; (3) the supremacist (or “cultural-nationalist”) mode; (4) the separatist mode; and (5) the differential (or “womanist,” “mestiza,” “Sister Out-sider,” “third force,” U.S. third world feminist…it has generated many names) mode of oppositional consciousness and social movement. It was this last, differen-tial mode that enabled a specific cohort of U.S. feminists of color to understand and utilize the previous four, not as overriding strategies, but as tactics for intervening in and transforming social relations.59

      Viewed under the auspices of U.S. third world feminism understood as a differential practice, the first four modes are performed, however seriously, only as forms of “tactical essentialism.” The differential praxis understands, wields, and deploys each mode of resistant ideology as if it represents only another potential technology of power.

      The cruising mobilities required in this effort demand of the differential practitioner commitment to the process of meta-morphosis itself: this is the activity of the trickster who practices subjectivity as mas-querade, the oppositional agent who accesses differing identity, ideological, aesthetic, and political positions. This nomadic “morphing” is not performed only for survival’s
      sake, as in earlier, modernist times. It is a set of principled conversions that requires (guided) movement, a directed but also a diasporic migration in both consciousness and politics, performed to ensure that ethical commitment to egalitarian social rela-tions be enacted in the everyday, political sphere of culture. As we shall see in the chapters to follow, this ethical principle guides the deployment of all technologies of power that are utilized by the differential practitioner of a theory and method of oppositional consciousness

      https://caringlabor.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/methodology-of-the-oppressed-chela-sandoval.pdf

      * paragraph breaks added.

    156. Another Union Dividend says:

      Very O/T but will the Queen’s XI supporters be reported to UEFA etc for signing a political song – Rule Britannia – at last night’s game from Tynecastle.

    157. Cactus says:

      Also..

      120 days to go max.. until the PM must act on EUref, make it work or die.

      We need a big digital countdown timer somewhere..

    158. Grouse Beater says:

      Currently attracting a 1,000 hits an hour, many from The Irish Republic – report and video recording of Nicola’s speech to the Irish Seanad:

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-bwJ

      Marvel at the confidence in speeches of Irish senators. That’s the difference between Dublin and Ireland. Soon as you arrive in Dublin you know you’re in the capital city of an independent country.

    159. CameronB Brodie says:

      @kevverage
      Do you own your own shadow? Do you cast a shadow?

    160. Ken500 says:

      The Westminster Tories are lying about the migration figures. They are manipulation the figures. Including EU students in the U.K. But not including UK students in the EU. Not including the UK citizens who have taken citizenship (duel) in EU countries in order to pay less tax.

      The migration crisis in Europe is caused by the UK/US and France illegally bombing the Middle East to bits for years and illegally stealing their resources. UK, France and the US carved up the Middle East and are responsible for the migration crisis in Europe. They are culpable but try to deny all knowledge. They are despicible liars. The reason the Tories and their associates want out of the EU is so they can continue to tax evade. They are beyond redemption. They should be put in jail and held to account. The Tories committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. So did UKIP for years. Illegally using public money to fund a political Party.

      There are more slightly more EU citizens working in the UK because Westminster borrows and spends more money on average than EU (eurozone) countries. Most Eurozone/EU counties live within their means and most are in relative surplus. Not the UK. In massive debt because of the illegal wars, tax evasion, and banking fraud.

      Sky is such nonsense. MSM is so mucked up.

    161. CameronB Brodie says:

      @GerryHassan
      You still bumming your gums and showing your “modernist’ mind to the world, coitus-knuckles? Not get a good enough spanking yesterday? Wake up ideologue, we live in post-modern times.

      Carry on quacking and I’ll be only too happy to re-edumicate the shit out of you.

      What is the value of an academic who’s mind is constrained and bound by out-of-date modes of thought? Zero, zip, zilch, nada, nil.

      #arroganttosser #ideologue #troglodyte

    162. Socrates MacSporran says:

      I have been contending for some time that we now truly are in the future foretold by that watershed 1968 television play ‘The Year of the Sex Olympics’.

      In fact, the waythings are going in Westminster, and within the written and broadcast media inthis country, I would say the original single play is now midway through its third or fourth series.

    163. CameronB Brodie says:

      @GerryHassan
      Still describe your nationality as British and your politics as socialist? Mmmmmm.

    164. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Brent crude oil now aroun $51 p/brl. When the price dropped to under $30 p/brl, the BBC was all over the price crash for weeks. It was Armaggedon for Scotland. It seemed we were all set to disappear into a big black hole somewhere in the North Sea, according to their reports.

      I am just curious why this good news story isn’t even registering on BBC news in Scotland? It’s almost as if they only ever wish to present bad news stories for Scotland’s economy, especially where North Sea oil is concerned. But why would they do that? They are our trusted national broadcaster – surely they would be interested in spreading this good news? But there’s barely a peep from them?

      I am really befuddled by this. It’s very odd.

      Perhaps I just expect too much from Auntie?

      (Stop sniggering at the back).

    165. manandboy says:

      IS INDEPENDENCE WORTH FIGHTING FOR?

      The United Kingdom is the most hostile, the most toxic, environment on earth for Scottish Independence.

      No one would immerse a puppy in a tub of car battery acid. That is what the UK Government is effectively doing with Scotland’s independence movement.

      There is no ‘weapon’ in the propaganda arsenal that Westminster will not use to prevent Independence for Scotland. That includes opinion polls. In a State which controls both broadcasting and print media so completely, the idea that opinion polls are independent and truthful, is laughable.

      In the UK at the moment, there is no effective difference between the Unionist media and Unionist opinion polls. Both are untruthful and used in the same way, viz to destroy public confidence in Independence.

      People everywhere, mistakenly, put a lot of faith in opinion polls, even though they are used primarily for brainwashing and thereby to influence how the electorate will vote.

      Many people have little ability or confidence to think for themselves and to make up their own minds. They prefer to be told the answer and voting with the majority is a safe way of doing that – which is where opinion polls come in, because they always tell us what most people’s opinion is. Or so they would have us believe. Their message to the indecisive members of the electorate is – vote with the majority, you can’t go wrong.

      The propaganda war currently being waged with such intensity by Westminster against Scotland has no precedent. The Scottish electorate is being battered daily with Unionist lies, every one of which is directed towards undermining belief in Independence. Theresa May’s Conservative Government has no higher priority.
      Out of the EU but WITH Scotland, the UK will survive, but outside the EU, WITHOUT Scotland, the rUk will unquestionably suffer hugely.

      We are engaged in an uphill struggle, against a much larger force. We can’t change that. But it is energy sapping to lament our disadvantages and cry foul. Far better to concentrate on the goal of Independence for Scotland – the country and the nation – there simply is no higher aspiration, no greater prize. May we never stop fighting for our Independence.

    166. Luigi says:

      One_Scot says:

      1 December, 2016 at 8:11 am

      Polls Schmolls. Massaged Tory funded polls are merely a blunt tool used to try and influence opinion rather than reflect it.

      Aye, the sneaky yoon manipulators at it again. Mind you, a truck load of favourable polls didn’t exactly help Hilary Clinton. They thought they were so right, it was in the bag….. Oooops!

      Polls Schmolls Indeed. 🙂

    167. CameronB Brodie says:

      manandboy
      Behaviour is shaped by emotion, just ask that Tory fan-boy David Torrance. Oh wait, his British nationalism conflicts with the principles of his scientific training, hence his regular BBC platform.

      The British state seeks the eradication of an authentic Scottish identity, there can be no other logical interpretation. Why else would the state broadcaster make such an effort to distort the perspectives and judgement of Scotland’s electorate? Creeps.

      http://cultinformation.org.uk/article_caring-for-cult-victims.html

    168. Capella says:

      So, Westminster refuses to question Tony Blair’s catastrophic and illegal Iraq War policy following the Chilcot Report.

      Tony Blair waged an aggressive war in Iraq. Several Nazis were hanged in 1946 for waging an aggressive war. That’s what the Nuremberg charges were.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuremberg_trials

      Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn – who voted against military action – apologised on behalf of the party.
      He said the report proved the Iraq War had been an “act of military aggression launched on a false pretext”, something he said which has “long been regarded as illegal by the overwhelming weight of international opinion”.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36733979

      Misleading Parliament into adopting disastrous foreign policies is perfectly OK in Westminster.

      BREXIT may not be as catastrophic as destroying Middle East countries, murdering hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians, creating vast networks of terrorist organisations and flooding Europe with millions of refugees. But it will probably be destabilising just the same.
      If MPs have the right to vote on BREXIT, will they have the information to make an informed decision? Or will they be kept in the dark and fed a diet of lies and misinformation? Do they care?

      What a shambles of an organisation.

    169. Proud Cybernat says:

      Stranger things have happened…

      http://imgur.com/a/gwrE0

    170. Dorothy Devine says:

      OT I see there is a wee stooshie down south about trains being cancelled , overcrowded and late – not to mention expensive.
      Who is the Transport Minister ?
      Has there been a call for his resignation?

      BBBC Scotland is a disgrace and it must know it is .

    171. CameronB Brodie says:

      @naebD
      Your authentic belief needs more precise definition, IMHO.

      Murdo Fraser is an authentic asshole.

      An ambulant hemorrhoid, even? 😉

    172. CameronB Brodie says:

      manandboy
      An idea has no physical body and so can not be bound or shackled by oppressive regimes.

      Britain is finished, regardless of whether the state resists liberating it’s colonial possession.

    173. Clydebuilt says:

      L O N D O N. . . . C A L L I N G. . . . . . D V D. . . . C R O W D F U N D E R

      Trying to raise funds for 50,000 DVD’s of the documentary of G. Ponsonby’s book on BBC bias “London Calling”
      Details of the fundraiser are to be found under GAP’s posts at the Towards Indyref2 site.
      Or you can go straight to

      https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/london-calling-50-000-dvds#/

    174. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Murdo Fraser
      One of the most significant factors shaping my world view, is my appreciation of “post-colonial literature and theory”. Yourself?

    175. Sinky says:

      OMG Tank Commander is on BBC TV Question Time panel this evening.

      How many false stats will she come up with this time?

    176. Clapper57 says:

      @Macart says:1 December, 2016 at 9:08 am
      “I see the motion to investigate Mr Blair’s misleading parliament and more importantly the electorate, has been defeated and thrown out. Quite convincingly at that 439-70”.

      Yes Macart , when asked about what Labour’s vote in HOC will be and also Corbyn’s comments on Castro well according to Angela Raynor on Daily Politics yesterday “Are your neighbours talking about Blair or Castro”?

      Well answer is yes as they are both topical in context of Castro’s recent death and also this SNP motion on Blair in HOC.

      Also for many Blair’s involvement is an issue that is as yet unresolved and being swept under the carpet by BREXIT , even Jack Straw was reported as saying “BREXIT was silver lining in distracting media away from Chilcot report “…..that’s your Labour for you….many people’s lives lost unnecessarily, both civilian and soldiers, but Labour don’t care they are just happy BREXIT got them out of jail so to speak.

      She even managed to twist this into SNPBAD….quelle surprise…not.

      And Angela perhaps people’s neighbours who lost sons, daughters and husbands in Iraq war might be ‘talking’ about Blair in the context of Chilcot’s report.And to them yesterdays vote would be very important and I am sure they will be ‘talking’ about it and also ‘talking’ about how Labour protected one of their own as opposed to representing them. And by the way Jeremy was ‘talking’ about Castro recently and was also ‘talking’ very negatively about Blair’s role in Iraq war post Chilcot report, though obvs Blair not so important to him now as he did not even turn up at vote yesterday or McDonnell.

      According to her welfare sanctions more important.

      Really ?

      Why Labour abstain on Welfare bill then ?

      So #fail on both then Angela….. quelle surprise …..not.

      And that is why the Labour the party with no principles will #fail in in next GE.

      Don’t even get me started on mucho Red Tory ranter Ian Austin….disgraceful performance in HOC yesterday.

    177. Macart says:

      @Clapper 57

      Countless dead in the middle east over the past fourteen years and literally millions displaced.

      The politicians go to strategy? What can we use to deflect attention?

      I didn’t think it possible to hold the Westminster establishment and media in any greater contempt,…

      …but I was wrong.

    178. Clapper57 says:

      @Macart says at 12:09pm :
      “I didn’t think it possible to hold the Westminster establishment and media in any greater contempt,…

      …but I was wrong”.

      Macart , I Agree 100%.

      Have a good day anyway……….. our time will come.

    179. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Researching an obituary on the late Rangers dfendr Davie Provan, I came across a story of how big Davie, after being turned inside-out by Jinky Johnstone. shook the Wee Man;s hand and said: “Jinky, it’s no fair”.

      I doubt if Ruth Krankie – Tank Commander will eveer shake Nicola Sturgeon’s hand and say: “It’s no fair”.

      Because, it really is no fair that Ruthie should get her erse skelt every FMQs, as she did again today.

      Who am I kidding – it’s grat entertainment, Gaun yersel Nicola – gerrintaehur.

    180. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Memo to self – proof-read more-carefully, before posting, and, get your sticking keyboard seen to.

    181. David says:

      Yes, gus1940, I agree!

      “has anybody else noticed the amazing resemblance to each other of May & Hammond to the extent that they could pass for brother and sister or is it just my imagination?”

      I hope someone can swap Theresa May’s face onto Hammond’s head, and vice versa, just to for laughs. We’re due some laughs from these two Westminster charmers.

    182. Fred says:

      @ Cammy Brodie, don’t beat aboot the bush man, Murdo Fraser is an “Arsehole!”

    183. Scott Shaw says:

      David and Gus, I agree with your observations. I also think they are both illegitimate children on Maggie Thatcher. Take away a few of those canyon like wrinkles from Theresa May’s face then she look’s just like her.

    184. louis.b.argyll says:

      Manandboy, others..

      Yes the reckoning will come eventually for the sneaky Tories..

      If it follows democratic process, it will be all the more easier to achieve.

      If not,it won’t.. But I for one will NEVER GIVE UP ON MY NATION.

    185. gus1940 says:

      It is becoming increasingly obvious that, having used up most of their now discredited lies, threats and false declarations of love for Scotland during Indyref1, The Guys In The Black Hats are going to use rigged Opinion Polls as one of their main weapons in Indyref2.

    186. orri says:

      Not only are the result’s a bit suspect but they then go on to misrepresent them.

      https://d25d2506sfb94s.cloudfront.net/cumulus_uploads/document/ditypa75v5/TimesScotlandResults_161129_W.pdf

      Note the figure for support for another referendum is on page 5, and the question is
      “Would you support or oppose holding another Scottish
      independence referendum before the UK leaves the EU?

      Also that the result is 35/54/11 for/against/DK which corresponds to the 37/42/13 in the infogram. It’s either one of the next two questions that gets the 31 Davidson is basing her less than a third on. The first is kind of ridiculous as it’s a guesstimate that a referendum will take place. The second is about whether the SNP should campaign for independence in the next 2 years.

      It’s also notable that there’s a distinct over representation of conservative in the raw data. Or a distinct lack of SNP support. If the rumour mill is correct some people previously being surveyed by YouGov aren’t any more.

    187. Breeks says:

      OT. Sssshhh. Keep it a secret, but I think…. I think China is building a wee present to give the UK as a formal welcome into the big bad world of ex trade agreement economics when it leaves the EU.

      A full size replica of the Titanic. Pretty thoughtful eh?

      http://www.euronews.com/2016/11/30/rebuilding-a-sunken-ship-good-for-the-local-community-or-a-titanic-fail

      But unlike the Queen Elizabeth has no aircraft, the UK has positively no shortage of deck chair attendants.

    188. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Peat Worrier
      Do what you like but I refuse to accept my slavery, defined through the Scottish and English legal systems.

      You appear to be arguing about the processes of a corrupt system, I’m demanding justice.

      You’re accepting the handcuffs of habitus. Put the master’s tools down.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    189. gus1940 says:

      Orri @1.17

      I’ve been on the You Gov Panel for years and they ascertained where my political sympathies lie a long time ago.

      Surely it is not a coincidence that I can’t remember the last time I was selected for a political poll but still get asked to answer consumer polls with annoying regularity.

    190. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Peat Worrier
      Your precious legal system is a tool of colonial oppression.

      What about the inalienable human rights denied to Scots?

      Put the master’s tools down!

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    191. orri says:

      Forgot to mention that there’s a dogged determination in these polls to have the recalled 2014 Vote the same as the result. That ignore not only the propensity for people to claim they voted the way they wished they’d done but also the salient fact that there was a huge amount of postal voting with no guarantees of where those voters lived. Indeed the results of a survey relatively shortly after showed that when you asked only those living in Scotland the result was far closer than 55/45

    192. manandboy says:

      FIRST RULE OF WAR – DON’T EMBARRASS THE BRITISH ESTABLISHMENT

      From RT:
      “Wounded soldiers’ payment scheme overhauled to spare MoD embarrassment in court
      Published: 1 Dec 2016 | 14:18 GMT
      Wounded soldiers’ payment scheme overhauled to spare MoD embarrassment in court
      AFP
      The British government is so determined to avoid the embarrassment of soldiers’ compensation cases that it may change its entire damages scheme in order to keep cases out of the public sphere, critics allege.

      Defence Secretary Michael Fallon will announce the changes amid a row about liability and the way legal firms have approached legacy cases from the UK’s recent wars.

      The plan is to end the proliferation of legal cases by paying out to injured soldiers and veterans without them having to sue the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

      Read more
      © ReutersBritish military given emergency £438m for wounded troops after printing ‘mistake’
      Some critics say the sheer amount of cases presents a threat to Britain’s ability to wage war while others hope the move would buttress the UK’s combat immunity, making it harder to sue for incidents occurring on operations.

      “Our armed forces put their lives on the line to keep us safe,” Fallon will say.

      “I want more generous payments to anyone injured — or the families of those who are killed — in combat and to remove the stress of lengthy legal action.”

      A three-month consultation period is expected to begin on Thursday before the new rules come into force.

      “As part of these reforms, the MoD will clarify in primary legislation that the common law principle of combat immunity should apply to deaths or injuries which occur in the course of combat situations,” the MoD said in a statement seen by the Times.

      In November a blunder at the Treasury was revealed to have forced the MoD to ask for an extra £438 million ($541 million) in emergency funds to cover payments to a compensation scheme for wounded troops.

      The error was exposed when Mark Lancaster, MoD parliamentary under-secretary, admitted an “inadvertent publishing error” had been made in a statement to the House of Commons.

      The MoD conceded the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme – which pays wounded and retired soldiers – was short by a massive sum.”

    193. Jamie says:

      Chic McGregor, house of Lourdes, genius.

    194. Willie says:

      Yes, prime minister May, like her predecessors, is pursuing exactly the same policies as were practiced in Ireland when millions of the wretched poor were allowed to die during the great famines. Folks either need to get off their knees or just lie down and take it like the Irish did in their millions. It’s the same shit, just a century and a half later.

    195. Andrew McLean says:

      orri @ 1:17

      I was always pestered by You Gov, then it suddenly stopped, I have re registered.



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