The kill count
It’s been another one of those weekends when the independence debate has taken a bit of a nasty turn. Whether it’s the Sunday Times stirring up Anglo-Scottish tensions (deliberately or otherwise), the Daily Mail running supposedly comic articles that are just an orgy of Scottish self-loathing, or Tory councillors making menacing-sounding threats against us personally, it’s been a grim 48 hours for fans of civilised discourse.
And we can’t in all conscience say that much of it looks like an accident.
Because anyone who reads a lot of newspapers (and nowadays that’s pretty much just us) can’t have failed to notice a distinct darkening of the language used in the media around the subject of the referendum – even when compared to the previous standard diet of tearing the UK asunder and suchlike.
Military terms abound: groups of people become “armies”, jobs are “destroyed” by independence rather than lost, a campaign plan becomes a “Dambusters” strategy while another is “pounded into submission”, politicians old enough to know better talk of “bayoneting the wounded”, and don’t even get us started on the cataclysms.
But what we’ve noticed in particular of late is an increase in the use of the word “kill”.
“No vote will kill appetite for separate Scotland for good, says Carmichael”
“English votes may kill off independence”
“Osborne: Independence will kill Scottish banknotes”
“If Scotland kills off the Union, I will be an immigrant in my own country”
“Could Scottish independence kill off free tuition fees?”
“Scottish Secretary says independence would kill off ship contract”
“Will independence kill Edinburgh?”
Those are only a few of the headlines you get if you Google “independence kill”, nearly all of them coming in the last few weeks. And lest you imagine that that’s just the sort of overheated terminology that the press uses all the time to juice up stories a bit, the same search will show almost no results from before the release of the White Paper.
(The most striking one you DO get is from failed Scottish Tory leadership candidate Murdo Fraser, who promised his party colleagues in September 2011 that “We can kill independence and break the SNP”, presumably with a wild gleam in his eye not seen since the sinking of the Belgrano.)
There could be a number of possible explanations for the increased aggression of the coverage, of course. Journalists could just be trying to make things more interesting for themselves by pretending that the campaigns are a lot more belligerent and bitter than they really are. Perhaps they’re being inadvertently influenced by repeated exposure to the increasingly-furious ranting of Alistair Darling.
Or perhaps they’re so embarrassed about having made such a ludicrous fuss over someone putting a couple of stickers on a window that they WANT more people to get hurt so they can have a proper excuse to go to town on the hyperbole.
We have no idea. But we suspect we may not be alone in finding the violent tone of both the No campaign and the media’s reporting more and more uncomfortable.
The mention of “Kill off Edinburgh” resonates with thoughts I had a few days ago of what would happen to Edinburgh in the wake of a No vote and the loss of influence in Holyrood as Westminster claws back powers.
I fully believe that as we’d become a distant shire to the SE UK and that there would be no need for a “shire” to have a capital. Edinburgh would become the county town of Scotlandshire.
“No vote will kill appetite for separate Scotland for good, says Carmichael” is Sunday Herald’s take on the vote no killers meme too. The word “kill” pops up throughout their report. That’s 3 SH’s I’ve bought now since they said they were YES voters but I’m not buying it any more because I have been had.
Bloated pledge signing/breaking Libdem Carmichael sez Scots kids today vote no because they have the web so borders are an anathema to them.
Good bye Sunday Herald.
Well, we in the YES campaign just have to behave well. At the end of the day, the only poll that counts is the one on the 18th September and on the 19th, we’ll all still be here and we’ll have to get on with it. So let’s take a chill pill and a deep breath and keep the moral high ground.
This concerns me. I definitely think they’re trying to stir up tension between the yes and no sides. The best thing we can all do is carry on peacefully and not fall for the media’s trap.
Yes indeed, the word “kill” is an odd choice in the description and context of a democratic referendum.
This is tame compared to how it’ll be in the last month or so.
I agree its not useful to voters but the BT campaign is only going to get more negative as the weeks go by.
That’s all the unionist parties understand – and that’s across the UK as well as in the referendum where visceral hatred comes to the fore much much more.
It’s all because they are losing,there would be no need for this language if they weren’t. At least they haven’t mentioned the 69 years ago war today,that’s a change.
Do not rise to this. This is entirely deliberate attempt to get independence supporters enraged and give Torcuil and Cockers their ‘Evil Cybernats Abuse Blameless Unionists’ headline.
Be thoroughly respectful to them. That will wind them up no end.
heedtracker, I was just thinking the same thing about the Sunday Herald, but I’ll gae it another week.
Wondering if they’ll sink to secretly ordering police harassment of Yes campaign stalls or anyone wearing a Yes badge?
Really wouldn’t surprise me. They’re getting desperate enough to resort to the old “Police State UK” tactics…
It comes naturally to them. Apologists for the UK talk the language of aggression, belligerence and violence extremely well.
as I was trying to say …
The mention of “Kill Edinburgh” was along the lines of something I considered a few days ago. I occurred to me that in the event of a No vote that Westminster’s clawing back of powers would effectively see Scotland, as a country, disappear and become a region of the UK (ignore semantics).
If that happens, Edinburgh would no longer be a “capital” city but merely a regional centre.
Worrying.
heedtracker, the tree of liberty
FFS its a newspaper, its reporting news. There are lots of
pro-indy stories, comments and an Editorial plea to support the SNP in the Euro elections to keep UKIP out.
Don’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Or if you must have a newspaper that only gives one side may I suggest the excellent Scots Independent.
I may be way off base here but when the NO camp drop down to the level they are at now by using these sort of terms I get the strong suspicion that they are now scraping the last few grains of hopelessness from the bottom of the barrel they are currently inhabiting. As we can read on here, a certain M.K.Gandhi once said:
“First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they come to fight you, and then you win.”
A very simple statement but at the same time a very accurate statement. We have been through the “they ignore you” segment a long time ago. We’ve been through the “then they laugh at you” stage. We are now currently at the cross over between the laugh at you stage and “then they come to fight you” stage. Unfortunately for the NO campaign the only way they can fight us is to make accusations about killing off independence etc.
Keep the faith folks. They know WE are winning. We know we are winning and what’s more they know that we know that they know we are winning! We will persevere and we WILL win in September of that I have NO doubt! 😛
Russ Mayer, the most underrated director ever, one of my favorites.
I’ve noticed that even on the Guardian the No supporters are a lot more tetchy. They wade in with insults and usually a comment about nasty cybergnats and one looks at these posts and thinks WTF!
However, the more rabid they become they more relaxed I feel. OK, I do tweak the odd tail…but only when it is funny 😉
I said here just 2 weeks ago that The Sunday Herald is an editorial scam. Didn’t stop thousands more getting purchased though only for many folks to realise that they’ve been taken for mugs.
Anyone who thinks the owners/editors of The Herald Group had an epiphany moment is deluding themselves.
The Herald (all 7 editions) are an outlet for aggressive anti-democratic, anti-independence & I’m gong to stretch here to anti-Scottish, propaganda.
Wake up folks. While I too am disheartened by the increasingly aggressive sounding language, the reason that it’s becoming more vitriolic is that many on the Unionist side increasingly view this YES/NO argument as a war against; the status quo, privilege, patronage, titles, greed, indifference, apathy, fairness, equality etc.
When a ruling establishment elite recognises that it’s very foundations are being undermined, we should expect a vicious response & that’s exactly what we are witnessing.
And it’s only going to get worse.
I urge undecided readers to imagine the retribution if Scotland votes NO.
The Empire seat of power in its death throes.
edit: ” war against … unfairness, inequality…”
I actually found the comment from the Church of Scotland, that we would need reconciliation after the vote in September, to be more revealing. I suspect that the individual was speaking from a unionist perspective. I saw that remark, rightly or wrongly, as an admission and sign, that the No campaign are going to use any means necessary to win the independence referendum. In other words, almost no tactic would be rejected in their mission to get the result they want.
Remember that the Church of Scotland has had numerous links with leading Scottish unionists, both in the past and present, whether it be Brown, Douglas Alexander etc. I believe the comment from the Church of Scotland was basically from part of the present establishment that everything possible will be done to defeat the independence movement. Maybe that is the wrong interpretation. I saw it as a warning of things to come though.
Looks like they are paving the way towards a false flag ‘event’ of some sort. Really worrying stuff
It would have been naive to expect anything else. At the bottom of their hearts many of the angrier unionists are driven by their belief that what the YES campaign is doing is treason ! If they haven’t actually said it publicly then they will soon.
It all comes from what we already knew. Their ideology in glossed with bits of neoliberal terminology but they still see Britain as a “great power” even if it now has to hang on to the coat tails of the US to throw its weight about.
Be ready for more and worse. When we took on this fight all of this stuff was inevitable as soon as it looked as though we might win.
AND THAT FRIENDS IS THE POINT. FRIGHTENED DOGS ATTACK FIRST. THEY ARE SCARED OF US BECAUSE THEY KNOW THAT WE CAN WIN !
Be encouraged. Their propaganda is vile and getting worse but we can beat it all. Wings plays a big part in helping to expose ‘last days unionism’, in all its ugliness, for all those with eyes and ears.
CAN ! SHOULD ! MUST !
Croompenstein
Unfortunately you may be right.
Lesley-Anne – just for you. 🙂
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ZnQQF7ucdM
@G H Graham 3:38
Absolutely spot on with the post NO vote observation. There will be NO reward, only further emasculation.
I also worry about the Sunday Herald a wee bit. Part of me thinks “being conned for commercial gain” and another part thinks “give it a chance for a few weeks and see if there is any continuing balance in editorial stance”.
I don’t mind the odd bit of “con” (pun fully intended) mixed through well argued “pro” articles. What I do find grating is the lack of any solid supporting argument and evidence on the con side. It’s mostly baseless or twisted assertion.
Another couple of weeks purchasing the SH and re-evaluate where my money goes.
In regards to the Sunday Herald: are some people arguing that because they carried quotes from Carmichael, that means they are anti-independence? Surely they are only reporting his comments? The Sunday Herald and the Herald have different editors.
It’s a newspaper; they can only report what they’re given. Just because they have expessed support for one side doesn’t mean that they have to be biased in their reporting.
heedtracker at 3.14
I’m having some difficulty following your point about the Sunday Herald. Did or did not Carmichael say that a NO vote would kill off independence?
So the fact that the Sunday Herald reported what the Scottish Secretary said is somehow a minus for the Sunday Herald?
It would have been more remarkable if it hadn’t.
The Sunday Herald is a newspaper, not a YES leaflet
The fact that it blows Better Together’s EU nonsense out of the water in huge letters on its front page obviously means it is sneakily supporting Better Together?
“If Scotland kills off the Union, I will be an immigrant in my own country”.
I am still trying to work out what this statement means.
Time to get a TV debate
https://www.change.org/petitions/david-cameron-agree-to-participate-in-a-televised-debate-with-first-minister-alex-salmond-on-the-subject-of-scottish-independence
@Dave McEwan Hill
That it pretty much how I see it as well.
@ RosiePosie
Glad you said “chill pill” and not “kill pill”.
@caz-m
It appears to imply that he does not feel Scottish at all. So much for all the proud Scot sentiments eh…
The only things that are going to be killed are fear and hopelessness. We going to vote Yes for a happier, healthier, more prosperous Scotland. Four months until the new world, folks.
Derek, I don’t want them to be biased in their reporting, but what I do want is investigating journalism. It seems to me that so far they have just been “treading water”.
Every regime has its supporters. Even the most extreme, Assad in Syria, Gaddafi in Libya, Hitler,Stalin,Pol Pot,et al had people prepared to fight to the end to maintain their elitist status.
In our country we have people who will resort to any means to keep the present system of governance which they do well out of. We must continue to oppose them by word of mouth and the ballot box no matter how desperate their tactics become.
Stay cool and keep the moral high ground. I like Oscar Wilde on the subject of forgiveness. He certainly had a lot more to forgive than most of us:
‘Always forgive your enemies – nothing annoys them so much.’
Oscar Wilde
Attacks on the Sunday Herald this early in the ‘real’ phase of the campaign will be seen by unionists as panic on our side.
Keep a grip ! Their coverage on the independence campaign, in my copy of today’s issue, was pretty good. Allies are never the same as ourselves – that’s part of what makes them allies – but they ARE pushing in the same direction which is the most important part.
Stay cool and keep pushing !
“The fact that it blows Better Together’s EU nonsense out of the water”
For the love of Jeebus, Dave, I’m going to blow YOU out of the water if you don’t start using paragraph breaks. You’re the last regular still not bothering.
An Ex Councillor said to me last week that it would not surprise him if we got a terrorist alert, like a bomb scare at Glasgow Airport or similar.
To give the impression we are being protected by the British State.
“Don’t worry folks, we’ll save you”.
Stu
But I did use paragraph breaks, didn’t I.
Perhaps all this latent agression is something deep in the psyche of Imperial Britain. When the Empire was challenged, when backs were to the wall, an extremely vicious response was inevitable. We must include Scots as being very much part of this common history. When the challenge was military, the solution was simple and equally violent. We are often told this a proud, noble and glorious history.
Think how, a mere 30 years ago Thatcher boosted her standing post-Falklands in England. Yet gained in no way with Scots. We had moved on for the most part.
Look at the present situation objectively. If we vote Yes in September, what little is left of the Empire is going to be dramatically changed forever. Anyone with the established mindset sees this as threat. What is different is that our challenge isn’t violent and isn’t based on militarism. For some in the British State, that is very hard to understand or counter. It’s something new to deal with and many are not finding it very easy.
The MSM for instance, jingoism comes easily. Dealing with a democratic threat is clearly challenging.
So inevitably the last vestiges of Imperial Britain resort, as always, to seek easy solutions involving aggression. Just violent language perhaps. To keep it that way, we need to continue to steer the democratic path.
Hyperbole sells newspapers, but the use of violent language by Better Together types does seem to be increasing. As many posters have pointed out, however, our opponents are behaving this way because they are now genuinely frightened they may lose. That fear is justified, and it’s very likely their language will become even more intemperate during the next four months. I can’t bring myself to welcome it (and I deprecate the vile implicit threat made against the Rev by Councillor Mcaskill), but their desperate anger is a measure of our progress and the likelihood of our victory in the referendum vote. Keep calm and carry on persuading the undecideds and soft Nos to vote YES.
@Rev Stu
See my comment on ‘The others’ viz your captioning of a close-up image of a BT supporter’s face as “contorted into a provocative, mocking sneer”.
Like it or not Rev, you are seen as something of an example to Yes campaigners so unless you know the context of that image, I have to say this looks unfair and unnecessary caricaturing of our opponents. And given the thoughts expressed in this current article – with which I agree – I don’t think that’s a road you or the majority of us want to go down.
I’m afraid use of language is just another weapon of mass destruction in the armoury of the British State. At the start of the campaign it was the language of scaremongering. Words like ‘danger’ and ‘warning.’ The use of ‘uncertainty’ was widespread. ‘Kill’ seems to be just a development a bit further along that road. Reminds me of Jim Morrison.
@ The Tree of Liberty, no the Sunday Herald are taking the mick. You can read exactly the same Carmichael ukok propaganda every day across the whole of the teamGB media from the BBC to the revolting Press and Journal. I have been diddled out of few quid by the Herald who even have that get the English crap for their online header.
A bunch of crooks in action.
http://archive.today/TSTMF
@ Dave McEwan Hill, I refer my honourable friend to the answer I gave The Tree of Liberty earlier.
Jim Marshall
Assad in Syria, Gaddafi in Libya and even Saddam Hussein in Iraq had massive support in their own countries. It is and was the fact that they didn’t dance to the US/UK tune was their problem.
Tree of Liberty
Do you know how much a decent investigative journalist costs? The Sunday Herald even with its recent circulation hike sells only about 30k papers per week.
Anyway the only decent Investigative journalist in Europe is currently working in Bath.
The No side have definately moved into a new phase in their campaign and all of this incendiary language forms a key part of it. The aim is to offend and provoke the Yes side in the hope that someone will overreact and turn nasty.
They will then rely on their compliant media (namely the BBC) to blacken the name of the entire independence movement in a last gasp attempt to derail the momentum towards Yes. As long as everybody remains calm, keeps the heid and continues what they are doing within the grassroots movement and online then the No side’s angry, desperate taunts are destined to fail.
Dave McEwan Hill
Sorry Dave but I must disagree with you. These dictators ruled by intimidating the majority population with a minority and often brutal elite. Their “massive support” was achieved by only one name on the ballot paper.
As for relations with US/UK, that is a matter we could discuss forever, but of course the western powers supported them when it suited.
Lenny, “Anyway the only decent Investigative journalist in Europe is currently working in Bath”. Exactly.
No, I don’t know how much it costs, but if they don’t do it, then I won’t be buying their paper.
I would like the Rev to be struggling to find a story every Monday because the Herald had already covered it, but, based on current form, I don’t think that is going to happen.
@Oneironaut
I don’t think there would be any official campaign against democracy supporters by the police in Scotland. I suspect that would be too much to bear for the consciences of many rank and file officers.
The upper tiers might be pro Union but I suspect it’s much more complicated at the coal face.
Sorry, I posted this elsewhere, but it seems relevant here too. No better revenge, than a life well lived. Except for perhaps a nation freed and better built. Let’s hope they keep on fundamentally misunderstanding the Scots.
Let’s see how they implode after they can no longer leverage their debt and greed against Scottish oil, when the rest of England wakes up and takes their parliament back, when we will be seen to become better, happier, stronger, more enlightened, fairer and how much we contribute to a better global society.
What we’re looking at here, are the last eruptions of fetid gas from the rotting corpse of a corrupt body politic. They’re done. Keep walking, We’re nearly there.
heedtracker at 4.20
So I see you don’t buy the Sunday Herald. You read the online Herald. We had this discussion last week.
I appear to have lost a much more illustrative piece written in response to similar distortion from. G H Graham earlier. Perhaps the saintly REV supressed it as it was rather angry
So let me get this straight. You are not buying the Sunday Herald because its stance in supporting independence in huge letters on its front page and in every editorial and in most of its political coverage is against us?
And it’s not allowed to report what our opponents say – no matter how infantile that might be?
And in fact it should just become an SNP pamphlet – or, better still, hold up its hands and say it was just being tricky and actually supports VNB?
You are just talking mince – because on the very page that Carmichael’s flight of wishful fancy is reported – as it should be – it is flanked on one side with a piece on David Martin blowing Better Together’s rubbish on European Union accession out of the water and on the other side by a piece attacking the UK governments refusal to publish the findings of that poll
I wonder if they ever think about what they’ll achieve in the long run? How are they going to even begin trying to “reconcile” yes voters into accepting Britishness? I couldn’t feel less British if I tried. British identity and the Union are becoming anachronistic. It’s something from a past, I accepted but never had any fond feelings for. Now its something I regard as tasteless and alien.
I didn’t start out like that. Hell I wasn’t even considering the possibility of ever questioning the Union. I never imagined that I would see something as dishonest as the No camp. I never thought I could be so exasperated with my fellow Scots who wish the state of affairs to continue.
I never imagined that I would be hear wishing for the union to end and be consigned to the dustbin of history. A fate I think it richly deserves.
There is actually no way forward for the no camp in the event of a no vote. None whatsoever.
As far as unionists are concerned, a Yes vote threatens their identity. They can feel the rug being pulled from under their feet, and there’s nothing they can do about it. They’re helpless, and that makes them angry, because there’s nothing worse than your life being changed by forces outwith your control.
The more of this we see, the more worried they must be. We could even see some isolated incidents of violence when the polls show a Yes win in the run up to the vote because knuckle-draggers won’t know how else to deal with it. Meanwhile, Yes folk are fairly calm, because we can feel the tide turning in our favour, plus we’re used to being the minority.
Incidentally, if a few pro-No quotes in the Sunday Herald means it’s secretly unionist, that must mean the Scotsman is secretly pro-indy, because it sometimes has Lesley Riddoch and Robin McAlpine in it.
It seems as though the anti-independence parties, and the press,are trying to lower the tone of the debate,possibly hoping for a reaction of sorts, which they then can flog to death as a reason not to vote yes.
Or secretly the no camp now know, that the yes camp are miles ahead, and that provocation is the only course of redemption for them. I have to say that independence supporters over the piece have been remarkably well behaved, and long may it continue.
First they laugh at you. Check.
Then they scorn you. Check.
Then they sneer at you. Check.
Next they ignore you. Check.
Then they’ll intimidate you. Check.
Always they will lie to you. Check.
They will belittle you. Check.
They will always undermine you. Check.
They will never express their fears Check.
And they are afraid – very afraid. Check.
They are going to lose. Big Time. Check.
The Tree of Liberty
I understand your frustration but the fact remains that its the only mainstream publication supporting YES
Therefore it gets a pro YES message into the hands of thousands of undecided voters every week, that for me is a big enough justification for spending £1.30 per week.
I stopped getting the Daily Herald about 18 months ago and had persevered with the Sunday but had cancelled my order on the Wednesday before they came out for YES.
I quickly reinstated my order.
We are as a movement spending a lot of money, time and effort trying to identify the undecided voters, the less we have to convert the better 🙂
I came across the usual twaddle on the Telegraph the other day, some one saying that his two sons were abused at a funeral where Scot Nats sung Irish Rebel songs, I ask you. That they were abused because they came from Orkney, spoke Gaelic and had educated voices. Come on, we all said this is just rubbish. I can see them trying to pull the wool over the eyes of people who live outside Scotland, but right now there is no evidence that the YES campaign is being offensive, there is loads of evidence of the NO campaign being so. Funny how their bad behaviour is not reported. I do not think it is fooling people here, unless they never leave the house. Any way I have been wearing my YES badge for some time now and I get more smiles than abuse and I live in Fife.
Garrion 4.40
Agreed. Excellent post.
Rev Stuart Campbell:- Re- the Referendum.
Have you noticed the New Labour apparatchiks at every Polling Station that carry CLICKERS.
Clickers that count every badge worn by S.N.P., but will include ALL our YES BADGES in Sept.2014.
We can be proud to wear our badges – before the ballot and after the ballot.
Not on the day of the ballot as we approach the Polling Station. Why give them any sort of advantage.?
Click an empty lapel.?
Jim Marshall
Indeed – and when it didn’t suit them they undermined them or invaded them and left their countries in total chaos.
I have Middle Eastern relatives. None of them believe Assad, Gaddafi or Hussein were saints. All of them insist they had large majority supports in their countries -in which strong and unscrupulous leaderships are absolute neccessities – and were certainly no worse than any of the factions trying to replace them (with US/UK interference to the fore in all cases. I was informed that US/UK elements were funding and assisting Alqaeda types in Syria long before the trouble broke out).
The large Christian population around Basra was entirely reliant on Saddam Hussein (who ran the most progressive and modern state in the Middle East) for their safety and have now almost all left Iraq for the shelter from Assad in Syria. Had Putin not intervened US might well have moved into Syria by now – Iran is the target here and Syria is in the way.
I could go on at considerable length but this is not the site to discuss the Middle East on. Don’t believe a word you hear in the US/UK mainstream media about the Middle East.
It’s all about oil. So is the battle we are engaged in
WantonWampun 4.55
That raises a question. Will we be allowed to wear YES badges to vote on Sep18th ? As I understand it electioneering is not allowed in a polling station and wearing a YES badge could be classed as such. Anyone got the answer here?
Look how easy BBC Scotland can turn a fairly low level incident into a major catastrophe.
It was dubbed the “Commonwealth Games Ticket Fiasco”.
It was on EVERY news bulletin that BBC Scotland could get it out on. They couldn’t accept the fact that it was caused by a computer problem.
And even today, they “warned” the games organisers that they better not get it wrong again.
Just one example of how the media can turn certain words into hysteria.
“Independence kills the Scottish cringe”?
“Self-determination kills Westminster rule”?
“Scottish democracy kills UK inequality”?
The reason I am so hard on The Herald and The Scotsman is not because they demonstrate a bias towards unionism.
It is precisely due to those newspapers neglecting the core tenets of solid, investigative reporting that uses facts, data & evidence upon which to weigh up the arguments & then make a stance.
But they don’t. They either flat out lie or twist evidence to suit an editorial agenda. The effect is to distort reality and convince readers with insufficient time or intelligence or both to unpick the rubbish they print.
Wings does exactly that; taking editorial copy to pieces by showing it is just plain wrong because much of the facts or evidence they cite is garbage.
In essence they are parodies of journalism.
They are comics. But they’re not funny.
G H Graham
You continue to make no distinction between the Herald and the Sunday Herald.
I also cancelled my Herald (after about 45 years with it)but relented and buy it again because of the readers letters
Dave McEwan Hill
Re Middle East, good post, when “we” invaded Iraq in 2003, I pointed out to a colleague using a large world map on the wall, that Syria is on the list, they need to get through Syria to get at Iran, impossible to get logistics through the straights of Hormuz. Afganistan as well as securing the rare earth minerals found in large quantities and the oil pipelines protects the eastern border along with client states Pakistan and Turkmenistan.
Just think they “misunderestimated” the resolve of the Afgan’s .
BTW before anybody points out that misunderestimated is not a word, its a Bushism.
Anyway enough of o/t before the Rev slaps me across the wrist.
Start stockpiling the pikes, boys and girls! They may yet make us fight!
The increasing hostility is a consequence of the months of fear raising from the No campaign and the trending polls which show that Yes might quite possibly win. The people who believe those scare stories are genuinely frightened that something terrible will happen after September 18th and therefore view Yes supporters increasing as something threatening. (Even some who should know better are falling for their own propaganda).
My wife was rounded upon for handing out Yes badges at a social meeting and accused of “suppressing other people’s opinions”. Of course, she was doing and saying nothing more than ‘Who wants a badge?’
This is what’s known as ‘projection’ – ascribing motives to other people that you are actually carrying yourself. The more fearful and willing to strike out themselves, the more common that they will accuse the Yes campaign of such tactics. We need to keep a cool head and not rise to the bait.
@Dave McEwan Hill says:
heedtracker at 4.20
I concur it is the same when people attack other pro indy for similar reasons, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
@Dave McEwan Hill says:
heedtracker at 4.20
I concur it is the same when people attack other pro indy for similar reasons, throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
I disagree about not wearing Yes badges as although they are counting, there will be nothing they can do to stop us voting.
If we wear our Yes paraphernalia and smile and look positive, we may even persuade a good few ‘still leaning towards No’ to reconsider as I think a lot of the Nay-sayers will be their usual scowling, angry selves
The Sunday Herald front page in the last 3 editions show clear support for a Yes vote in the rererendum. I agree more could be done from our point of view but it is still just a newspaper and they are in it for a profit.
I welcome support from any MSM so I have bought these last 3 editions just so as I can point people who would never dream of reading Wings to an alternative point of view in some of their articles.
Contrast with the garbage printed in the Mail, highlighted last night. Truly disgusting is all that can be said of that article. I really don’t care if their objective is only to sell more newspapers it helps get our message out there and that has to be a good thing.
Who are the action girls? Kezia, JoLa and JaBa?
O/T
I’d like to say that there are still seats on the Wings bus from Dundee and Angus for the meet up on 30th May up for grabs.
Help me fill the bus and Ian B fill the Counting House. It may be that the press will be there so I really would like us to make an effort to show who we are.
Only 4 moths exactly from today we will be in that booth putting an X in the box, we still need to persuade more and getting visible is the way to do it.
Many of you deliver the Yes newspapers, man stalls, talk at events and knock on doors. Not everyone can do this but coming out for a beer, sandwich and a chat is within the capability of us all.
the pick up points are still flexible so please if you can make it along to what will be a great event, let me know over in Off Topic and where your preferred pick up point would be.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/
moths? 🙂
O/T I’ve been monitoring the Herald story about Wings registering with the Electoral Commission for most of the day. Having made a couple of comments myself, I was surprised to see a few minutes ago that there were only 7 comments. Stories like this would normally get dozens of comments.
Then I noticed that both my comments had been moderated off. It seems that Calum is standing by the Kill switch (there’s that word again)!
@WantonWampum
@Liz
Well, I’ll be wearing my badges when I go to vote 🙂
(Partly because I have so many now it’s quicker to leave them there than to take them off!)
Let them see the numbers ranged against them…
“Look upon our works, ye mighty, and despair!”
(Sounded better in my head…)
If by some chance the Scots are frightened into voting No. The fight goes on I for one am not giving up NO WAY.
O/T Gawn the Blue Brazil
Heedtracker et al.
Re comments about Sunday Herald. The paper does exactly what it said it would do when it came out as pro-independence.
It said then that it would fairly report all sides but it’s editorial policy would be strongly pro Inde.
What more do you guys want? Do you want to suppress all comment with which you disagree?
This is the only national paper which puts our case in any balanced way. Look at today’s front page, for goodness sake! We need these people!
Let us support them as long as they follow their declared policy, and don’t get all upset when they report other opinions, as they must. Otherwise they are just a propaganda sheet.
@Oneironaut
Sounds fine to me. You may walk in next to, or pass by, on the way out a switherer. Just look them in the eye some will cross over to YES some may get a boost to stay with a YES.
PS
It’s a Blue Brazil day with 15 mins to go.
SNP condemning the media for attempting to cause devision
http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/9202-attempts-to-foster-referendum-division-slammed-by-snp
On the subject of YES badges.
I fully intend to be wearing my YES polo shirt AND my YES fleece. More over I will also be wearing with pride, a great deal of pride, my YES badge or badges and my Bu Choir badge. 🙂
Any one who comes up tp me and tells me to remove any badges or I can not enter the polling station will be the recipient of a great deal of vocabulary emanating from me! 😉
The last time I checked we were just about still living in a democracy therefore it is MY right to wear WHAT I want WHEN I want and no one can stop me. If they do try and stop me they are denying me my democratic right!
Whilst I will support the Sunday Herald, I wouldn’t be surprised if it is more to do with sales.
However I think it is good that some of the scare stories are being refuted – we know they are not true but some people will only get their info from the newspapers and the bbc and it will useful for that alone.
I notice that the Lab guy who said – ‘of course an indy Scotland will be welcome into the EU’, is now saying he was misquoted – no doubt he has been sat on from a great height – personally I think it was more to do with the upcoming EU elections.
He was the guy Derek Bateman highlighted as trying to get legislation passed in Brussels to exclude Scotland (and Catalonia) from day 1 of indy – he was sent packing by the EU legislators.
Folks, have we not already done the Sunday Herald ‘should we buy/shouldn’t we buy’ debate ad finitum?
The points have already been well made in previous topics by those on both sides of the argument. We are just repeating ourselves.
The solution is simple : if you dig the paper’s stance, buy it. If not, then don’t buy it.
To be fair to the Sunday Herald. When it came out in support of Scottish independence it did say that it was doing so but not at the exclusion of reporting both sides of the argument. This is what I see them doing, reporting both sides and where they see fit digging deeper.
The Sunday Herald has been running damaging front pages for the NO campaign for months and their big hitting columnists Bell and MacWhirter have written scathing articles week after week so that will do me, in the absence of anything else.
Their editorial the other week explained clearly that they were still going to let the other lot put their case, as they should, as we can leave the censorship stuff to the BBC and their pals.
Todays edition must have had half a dozen good pro indy stories, and I will be staying with it.
I noticed on the newspaper stand in Morrison’s today that on the front page of, I think the Express, that the Queen has expressed her fears for a divided Scotland. ( I did not read the article ). I think the Queen has never entered a political situation before, no doubt her Majesty’s government has been having a word in her ear, another scare tactic.To me unacceptable.
I strongly feel a huge desperation in the Unionist ranks, and feel that no matter what, the UK is breaking apart. Many pressures abound
From unassailable debt levels, to a London bubble from property greed, which will effect the well being of ALL the rest of the country, the Independence referendum, the Eu referendum, disruptive UKIP, and dissatisfaction everywhere but London.
I cannot see how it will last another 5 years, regardless of what happens in Scotland.
We need to leave in September, or we will be dragged under through no fault of our own.
@Fireproofjim
“What more do you guys want? Do you want to suppress all comment with which you disagree?”
Well said! We’re not BT or UKOK or VNB or any of the other sour-tasting alphabet soup after all! 😉
@liz says:
I disagree about not wearing Yes badges as although they are counting, there will be nothing they can do to stop us voting.
I agree with you Liz.
I also have this vision of massive good-humoured YES ceilidhs taking place all day on September 18th in the immediate vicinity of all polling stations.
Just sayin’
O/T.
Looks like UKIP will do well down south in the EU Elections, if the FT has got it right, a YES vote will negate UKIP’s EU political stance for Scots.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/83fbef12-dd16-11e3-8546-00144feabdc0.html#axzz325SpEYR3
I could just ‘kill’ for a haggis supper!
http://eezypeezylemonsqeezy.com/?themes_on_signup_preview=1
Ok, ok, things are now getting nasty, but I don’t think there is any great conspiracy here.
Come on, this is BT we are talking about – these dopes could not organise a piss up in a brewery. They certainly would if they could, but they are just not clever enough – look at the “no shared currency” fiasco and how it all unravelled. There is heaps of malice in BT for a conspiracy, but insufficient ability or cohesion. The whole thing is a great, nasty, chaotic mess.
So, IMHO, yes, certain BT/MSM operatives are getting nasty, but this is not orchestrated.
What we are witnessing is BT are becoming fearful and they are feeding off one another and reacting in a way that nasty people often do. “kill” gets used once, it affects their own supporters more than the undecided. before you know it, it becomes part of the BT dialogue.
Project Fear has succeeded in scaring itself.
The Old Empire is at it again,Westminster is in the process of building,not one,not two, not even three, nuclear submarines, but six, HMS Artful and HMS Ambush have already been launched, with HMS Audacious,HMS Anson,HMS Agamemnon and HMS Ajax at various stages of construction.
All the above nuclear submarines will be built at Barrow, in Cumbria. God only knows how much money is being pumped into the creation of these subs, whilst the poor go hungry and the disabled are vilified. It would appear Westminster and Whitehall’s vanity knows no bounds, with regards to Rule Britannia, and punching above their weight.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cumbria-27461511
@ Fireproofjim, the whole Herald on Sunday thing is a cheap fraud to boost sales. Paying to read their drippy Carmichael “kill off independence” story, pretending that Libdems didn’t enable the great Con/Dem student fee fraud and its rather anoying getting bilked like this
You can read Sunday Herald cover but the rest is bettertogether vote no BBC in Scotland cut and paste. Fool me once, shame on the Sunday Herald, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me three times and its just one more Westminster ligger hiding behind Scots teenagers as they work out of way charging kids for uni and collage that the great pud got for free.
Vote Libdem and we pledge tohttp://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/harriet-harman/10-broken-lib-dem-promise_b_3925441.html
1. Tuition Fees
Nick Clegg campaigned on a promise to scrap tuition fees if they got into power, and every Liberal Democrat MP pledged to vote against future tuition fee increases. But once in government, Nick Clegg and his MPs voted to treble tuition fees to £9,000,
I don’t think this is O/T. My immediate response would have been “I’m Cramped”, but as it’s Sunday. 🙂
Marcia Griffiths/Lloyd Charmers – Play Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVCi1Ryxx3U
O/T just out of (perverse?) interest, and to gauge opposition, just Googled BT, plus this or that town, at random. Very pleased indeed to see that on either page 1 or page 2 of Google search, Wings is right there. Better together – really? Love it!
I’ll be voting yes to save lives.
It’s that simple.
heedtracker
Give it a rest. You are talking nonsense. There are only two items that are not favourable to YES which are merely news reports in the Sunday Herald, one of them being a perfectly legitimate account on Alex Neils’s present little difficulty and the other Carmichael’s wishful thinking.
Care to list the other bits you appear to have found that nobody else can see. Most of your post makes no sense at all
@Luigi says:
Project Fear has succeeded in scaring itself.
They have indeed.
They know they are losing, and can only respond by coming up with more and more dirty ugly stuff on a daily basis from now to September 18th.
All we need to do is keep doing what we have been doing in our usual positive way, and keep infecting more and more people with the YES virus*.
* (c) Johann Lamont
The SH ‘argument’ is tedious. The following is from a friend who is in a senior editorial position in SH. Make of it what you will:
‘Yes, I read wings. It’s pretty depressing to hear that people are
grumbling about us but there’s not much I can do about that. What do
they actually want us to do beyond what we have already done? Kind of
sickens my happiness to tell you the truth and I personally have no
interest in trying to change the minds of people who think like that.'</I)
I think ‘Heedtracker’ needs to learn to count, apart from the headline I only counted ‘ONE’ kill in the report. And didn’t the SH say two weeks ago that they would report other stories apart from ‘YES’ He should also remember that Wee Geordie once famously said,”Devolution will kill the Nationalists ‘STONE DEAD’, and we are very much alive and fighting fit for any of their crap. So fear not just keep-up getting our message through at every opportunity.
Auld Rock
i think the biggest criticism of the SH is that it isnt as incisive as wings
In Germany after 45. There was a period of rehabilitation. Some could not work in their old professions for several years. Will this happen with the no crowed. Would you trust them not to deliberately fuck things up. I wouldn’t trust then as far as I could throw them.
P.S. An echo from a former colony. 😉
STRANGER COLE & THE SERAPHINES – WE SHALL OVERCOME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mmw7C9ndmwA
Ian, I have no sympathy for anyone who works the Sunday Herald copy because they are disappointed with my response for example.
You see the problem isn’t that this edition or that edition sides with YES or NO.
The problem is that they all print bullshit because they are too lazy to conduct proper journalism by asking the right questions. What you end up with is just reprinted press releases with a twist.
It’s not news nor informative and it treats the readers as if they are all half wits.
I don’t care if they lean left or right but for once, base a position of solid facts, evidence or data that backs it up instead of just screaming comical shite while expecting us to believe it.
An opinion poll costs a few thousand quid.London spent 46k on their opinion poll.I assume it was a pretty big and thorough job.Theyll have a fairly accurate idea of where things stand and where its heading.They’ll have a good idea how many votes project fear will deliver for them.Theyll have to decide how much more devolution they are willing to offer to secure an acceptable margin of victory.
@ Auld Rock and Dave McEwan Hill, lads the whole point of this one post from WoS, is the growing malevolent violence behind the indyref coverage by all teamGB media. The Rev lists some and then surprise surprise, today the Herald on Sunday have it too.
Its one thing for a charming delight like Carmichael to crank up a general projectfear factor with his own “kill” meme but he’s boosted hard by the Herald hack too, in virtually the whole report and with the usual very weak YES spokesperson one line response, as per usual and just like what bettertogetherBBC does ever single day and over and over.
Me no likee. Its a con.
@G H Graham,
Fair enough. That’s your take on it. Personally, I support SH and was thrilled that they ‘came out’.
You appear to be pointing at a more general dumbing down of MSM, and that’s indisputable, but the bare-arsed fact is that genuinely investigative journalism has a toty audience. Private Eye does great work, but wouldn’t be commercially viable if it wasn’t full of cartoons and carefully camouflaged gossip.
@GH Graham & heedtracker
Let us do our best to offend the only media supporter we have!!
That seems to be your policy, and it is simply stupid, and paranoid.
As I said before we need these people more than ever, and more than we need your your conspiracy theories.
Rev , thats another meeting Gerry Parker/ Patrician/& Myself have had in respect of the Yes stalls in Strathclyde Park, other Wingers are keen to help with a Wings Stall.Gerry had Emailed You asking Your permission, & asking if You can help out with banners/flags ect.
We have leaflets from several differant bodies of the Yes campain. We have 3 Gazibos + tables, we,re willing to put or hands in our pockets to fund Wings balloon posters ect.
We,ve discussed getting some Wings goods for sale or return,I am willing to put up the cash.
There are things we cant put in open posts, our next meeting is on Frid 23/5 to decide on some other things.
Please get in touch with Gerry Parker, before we make any more plans.
Ian Brotherhood @ 6.30pm
Agree.
Can we move on from the well-rehearsed Sunday Herald ‘argument’?
“The SH ‘argument’ is tedious. The following is from a friend who is in a senior editorial position in SH. Make of it what you will:”
Indeed. The paper’s come out unambiguously for Yes, what more do we want? It seems to me pretty clear that not all the journalists on the paper agree with that stance, but they’re allowed not to.
I’ve never, ever attacked anyone for “bias” – except the BBC, because the BBC is the only entity that’s supposed to be impartial by law. Journalists and publications have no such obligation. All I pull them up for is telling lies, not for having opinions I disagree with or reporting things I’d rather were kept quiet.
I’ve recommended people buy the SH many times, because it’s a good paper as well as because it gave both sides fair coverage even before it came out. It’s counter-productive to harass the press ALL the time, all it does is create resentment. Let’s be on them like a pack of dogs when they tell lies, but let’s not just jump down everyone’s throat for every last word that could possibly be misinterpreted into an attack.
That’s what Unionists do to me all the time, and let me promise you, folks – it doesn’t make me any more sympathetic to their cause.
The best thing about WOS is that we now get Two sides to all the scare mongering, I bought the Dr, for 30 years and now have a more open mind into politics , and the corrupt way the governments treat me with contempt , they treat me like a leaper. that has to bow his cap
@ Fireproofjim, the Herald on Sunday “kill off” Carmicheal thing today is the first link on the Reverend’s list up there. I’m sure the poor wee souls at the Herald will appreciate your defence though:D
@ Lanarkist
Wee foldybike man
Silvertay
Next meeting re Strathclyde park June 7th Yes stalls,will be at my house on Frid 23/5 at 8pm Ml6 9PT ( Saltire Shed in back garden ) & any other Wingers welcome.
This ex-Herald reader is going to stick up for the SH. I’v e only one complaint – in the magazine there’s not enough book review space, which they could easily take from those damned fashion pages.
But I’m liking the editorial stance, and I’ve always enjoyed what the Ia(i)ns have had to say. I try to avoid the website, other than a glance at headlines, especially if Obewank Anobe’s been around.
As DMH has said they cover news. And I don’t want to read the news of just one side in the debate. Did any other paper give column inches to Wings today?
Regardless of whether investigative journalism has disappeared (been starved of funding by newspaper owners) I think the reaction of the Better Together peeps to the SH decision tells us all we need to know. Their stranglehold has been broken and that can only be good for the debate and democracy. I have enjoyed reading the last 3 SHs and look forward to more.
Now is not the time to be a Pulitzer Prize purist.
There is also of course a gender issue. The MSM and Westminster remain as bastions of male chauvinism, so violent aggressive language comes naturally. Leave them to it, and female voters will inevitably turn to Yes.
I believe killing (locals) was par for the course historically when colonies sought independence from Westminster rule. You don’t even have to look far afield; just ask the Irish.
Anyway, I was under the impression devolution would ‘kill nationalism stone dead’. That worked out well.
They are only quoting what Carmichael said heedtracker. That is all. I really cannot understand abusing a newspaper that is the only one so far to support a Yes vote in the referendum. I have no idea what they could do that would win you over.
I think the Sunday Herald is the best paper about at the moment. Its coverage of the referendum debate over the last 12 months has been head and shoulders beyond the rest and this was my opinion prior to them formally supporting a Yes.
All I’ve ever wanted from any newspaper is balanced reporting and for them to expose nonsense no matter who it is.
By the way I also think that in Iain MacWhirter the Sunday Herald have the journalist with his finger on the pulse of Scottish opinion. I find him very interesting as his own opinions mirror that of the general Public. I believe he was Federalist who has realised that will never happen and the only way forward is via Independence.
The only thing that surprises me about the increased viciousness of the No campaign, is that we are surprised. You aint seen nothing yet folks.
O/T and OMG get those microphones away from the Scottish under 17’s , they are murdering Flower of Scotland
OK! I’ll keep buying the Sunday Herald, if only for their front page on here on Aberdeen newstands covered with vote no grot. Its still important to get into it with them though.
Just in case you don’t know what Im talking about, Scotland V Netherlands European under 17’s Soccer Semi Final on Eurosport , just starting, the winners play England in the final!!!
The Sunday Herald is easily the fairest and most informative newspaper when it comes to covering the referendum.
However, I would be more than a little suspicious if every article in it was 100% pro-independence, or, indeed, if it was unthinking and bellicose in its criticism of unionism.
I think the Carmichael piece in today’s paper was a case of the Sunday Herald being content to let Carmichael witter on, making a fool of himself in the process. I’m sure the majority of readers were thinking [and smiling] the same as me: here’s another out-of-touch Westminster unionist claiming something was about to “kill” the independence movement “stone dead”.
In a choice between the intelligence of the Sunday Herald and the brainless balderdash of the vast majority of unionist papers… well, it’s bleedin’ obvious.
If you don’t like the SH then don’t buy it. It is not compulsory.
My feeling of the present situation is that the No Camp expected to have an unassailable lead at the start of the official campaign period. They don’t and now realise they don’t have the broad organisation that the Yes side have built up over 2 years and still growing. They rely on the media rather than door to door activists.
heedtracker- can you not credit the rest of us with the intelligence to read the Carmichael piece and make up our own minds? I read it and thought “more bollocks from him” and I dare say most will have thought the same. I’m sure the Sunday Herald never said it was going to be a fanzine for independence. It will continue to try to be balanced but with a pro-indy slant. I think it’s been a cracking paper for independence supporters for over a year. Some of your comments frankly seem very immature and “toys out the pram”.
Going back on topic, keep calm and stand your ground, because it’s going to get much worse.
You might have not realized, but the economic effect of our independence will be big to rUK.
All of last UK budgets count on huge revenues from exports that will vanish, and readjusting the accounts will bear huge consequences, but also lay bare all the lies peddled for decades about how Scotland was subsidized by rUK.
The domino effect will be huge, and the current elite is aware their own livelihood is at stake, so – as every wounded animal facing a threat – it will lash out very aggressively, punching out above its weight.
The stakes are incredibly high for the cushy 1%, they have much more to lose than we have to gain, although our future is not peanuts – I’m not underestimating the greatness and goodness to be able to determine our own future.
Our lives will continue – for better or for worse – whatever the outcome on 19/9, although we will have to endure some hard times and resume our battle if the unthinkable happens.
But when we win, it’s the beginning of a brave whole new world for everyone, including rUK and – more importantly – their 1% oppressors.
Hold your nerves.
When SH declared YES they did say all views would continue to be published
beware of papers with one view(the Scotsman)
Aye Carmichael has fairly stuck his neck out claiming his lib dems mep George Lyon is going to be reelected. He even went as far as suggesting he had some kind of insider knowledge (which Is not really how these elections work). Maybe he is talking about private polling? I voted for Tasmina at the top of the snp list and I hope she makes it.
One thing that has been hushed up is the doubling of the MEP’s we send. Another drawback of independence I suppose. A strong UKIP showing down south and a blank up here is all part of the perfect storm and it would take a spectacular failure by the electorate to not grasp fully where we are heading with a No.
SH: comments above are baffling. To any journos reading this: thank you and please redouble your efforts. If I can make it to CH, tap me on the shoulder- I owe you a pint.
“Did or did not Carmichael say that a NO vote would kill off independence?”
Dave McEwan Hill, is what Carmichael said “NEWS” worth reporting?
Are we not all complaining that the media led by the BBC is reporting the No campaign’s propaganda, word by word, as fact without any objective analysis?
IF the Sunday Herald is really in favour of independence, it must completely ignore such nonsense. Or clearly and prominently state that Carmichael is talking nonsense. Did it do that?
I don’t have any problem with the Sunday Herald reporting news WORTH REPORTING from either side.
I never bought the Sunday Herald and have no intention of doing so.
hahaha Children all squabbling amongst themselves about a newspaper.
Wait until the fight gets really nasty, THEY want us to squabble, don’t fall for it. Let’s move on.
It’s been years since I bought the SH – but I must say I have enjoyed their cryptic crosswords these last three Sundays – as good as they used to be.
liz says:
“I think a lot of the Nay-sayers will be their usual scowling, angry selves”
I think by the 18th they will be apoplectic. At leastI certainly hope so, 😉
Try and imagine, what the Sunday Herald front page headline could look like on Sunday the 14th of September.
Quite like: “ALMOST THERE”
I’ve yet to colour it in:+)
Re the SH… let’s be clear.
There is a world of difference between supporting and promoting independence.
Personally, all I expect is for a newspaper to give fair and reasonable reporting and not to fabricate news.
Try and imagine the front page headline on the 21st September.
“YES”
Aye right enough, its easy if you try.
Hi Harry, I’m one Scottish voter in over 4 million with all kinds of views and just like everyone else, even you:D
The more narrow minded your thinking, the more extreme your views.
These statements Stu presented are the truth of that.
Yes is winning precisely because we are open to all views about the future of an independent Scotland because we all agree we can run our nation better than Westminster can. Maybe not how but we agree we can.
If we maintain an open minded, open hearted approach to seeking a yes vote, we will not have to be reconciliatory because there will be no need for reconciliation because we will cause very little hurt.
If you get angry at this sort of crass attack or the idiot George Galloway’s ‘pig’ joke then you are already losing your sense of purpose and closing down your mind because you can not think clearly if you are angry. Anger only leads to narrow mindedness and then you will behave no better than the Unionists you are finding ‘nasty’.
Smile at all times, there is nothing the narrow minded hate more than someone who is happy with their life and confident of their future.
May I also add my appreciation for Wings somehow working Faster, Pussycat, Kill! Kill! into a post?
O/T big thanks to ronnie anderson and gerry parker for the second meeting of the wings at yes in the park. Good ideas and enthusiasm in abundance.
All welcome to attend the third meeting, most probably in ronnies garden this Friday evening.
@Patrician
Now that is original, who else but Yes supporters could have a meeting in a garden? BT just haven’t thought this through have they?
@ Taranaich – my sides are aching, absolute gem at 11:00 – next pink flamingo.
Re the meeting – I hope that garden has no borders.
I’m ok with the stance of the Sunday Herald. They’re a reporting newspaper, and tend not to give too much of a slant to that which they report; at least, not compared with others.
Their editorial stance is to back the Yes campaign; this doesn’t necessarily mean that all their reports will reflect well on the Yes campaign.
As with everything; read, absorb, digest, decide.
Ronnies Garden – where the grass roots thrive.
@Paula Rose
Nob orders Paula. That garden has nob orders is correct. Our garden is flowering.
@Thepnr –
Hosta la vista baby…
To Hood and Bob W:-
Blue highlight problem appears to be fixed.
Many thanks.
for Lesley Anne:-
Do we need to remind anyone about our opponents tendency, when a ballot seems tight, to “Rig the Referendum”.
Does anyone imagine that the Labour party heartlands in Glasgow and elsewhere will not stoop to any dirty trick to ensure “they keep what they own”.?
I was not advocating that you, or anyone be barred from proudly displaying “YES” badges, but was elucidating the concept that – we will allow our numbers to be known, during the ballot -by those who have a history of VOTE RIGGING.
Like everyone else, I hope the result is overwhelming.
The Polls tell us otherwise.
Thanks to a work of genius from Rev. Stuart Campbell, we can volunteer to be scrutineers and invigilators within every Polling Station where we have got to be AWARE of every dirty trick – old, new, or yet to be exposed.
“THEY” will not give us an even break. Not in Glasgow.
Anyone going to vote can wear what they like. Knock yourselves out.
Polling agents in ordinary elections can wear colours but they’re not allowed to display the candidate’s name. Exactly how this is interpreted varies from council to council. Some allow rosettes, some don’t. Some allow party symbols, some don’t. I expect there will be some sort of ruling for the referendum.
It’s not that important, anyway. You don’t need the Y-E-S word to be obvious. For example I have a rugby shirt I bought in a tourist shop on the Royal Mile which means that I’m essentially wearing a saltire. Blue and white, especially a white cross on a blue background, is all you need.