The higher ground
Posted on
June 11, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
It’s been a pretty bad-tempered day in the independence debate, as the No campaign drags everything down into the mud yet again in an attempt to hide their latest shame. Let’s end it on something beautiful.
Thanks for this. I have been one of the bad-tempered ones today. Even got Chris Deerin to block me and call me a twat, although I’m not sure if I feel bad about that or not.
Anyway, loving the pic.
That’s the best campaign poster I’ve ever seen.
Good on ye Chris!
Ha! I’m apparently weird because I’m an adult male who likes the Manic Street Preachers.
(Mind you, I did basically accuse Chris Deerin of being a racist…)
This is going up on the noticeboard at work right next to this one
http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2013/02/03/is-it-cos-wur-scots/
Just call it. The best way to counterpoint BS is to call it out… nicely ask for one wee example please… just one then… only a small one… nearby a fact. 🙂
Look at the wee Scotland butterfly, lagging behind his mates. Alistair Darling’s right, we must vote No to remain safe and secure with the rest of the UK in a cocoon. Why go searching for flowers when we can just remain a glorified slug?
looks like we are in the midst of operation BT ‘lets manufacture attacks on women from yes supporters so we can stop women voting yes’
That’s lovely!
Ha Ha flowtin like a Butterfly kicking like a Mule, the Fools
dont know whit their up against.
Im campaigning for a Scottish Scotland.
I’ve just been trolled on Twitter by McTernan as well. Must be doing something right.
Wow. Loving that.
If ever a picture told a thousand words, this is it.
Cybernats paint butterflies in online attack!
That’s one of the best posters I’ve seen – Well done, Andy Mac. 🙂
Watching you now on TV man, worth your weight in gold! Get that Susan woman telt! Love ya!!
I like it but, my wife hates butterflies. 😉
@Doug Daniel – are all us Manics fans weird cybernat Yes supporters then?!
Re the womens’ vote – was pleasantly surprised today to find another of my female friends is a Yes voter as well! Maybe it’s not as bad as we fear – I think other women are like myself in not wanting to have potential confrontation or heated debate, so a lot of us are indeed Yes, but we keep quiet as we just don’t want to get into a debate about it yet.
I do have my badges on now though! 😉
Stunning.
Thanks for that, I was beginning to think it was going to be impossible to get a yes vote today.
Nice.
Good show on Scotland Tonight btw Stu. I don’t think that woman came across very well.
Got involved in a spat on a FB page; with some numpty Yes supporters, who were hating on Rowling… and saying they would never speak to a No voter again.
Made this English Yes supporter very uncomfortable.
Simple, symbolic, powerful, beautiful.
This is the one that will be remembered in history I think.
After the day we’ve had, it’s nice to remember this is about love and not hate on our side and this image conveys that perfectly.
Sleep easy folks. 96 to go. 🙂
Braw, that.
Infamous Labour dirty tricks spindoctor McTernan being taken to task on STV.
Very funny indeed.
For those unfamiliar with the truly incredible level of hypocrisy McTernan is displaying just look up what he did in Australia when he was organising his ‘hit squad’ as they attacked the opposition online.
Does anyone have time to make this into an FB cover image size/shape and share it around FB? 🙂
Beautiful and gracious. I’d love that on a t-shirt for four little girls I know…
Well done today Stu. I have a feeling we’ll be seeing more of you.
Well I’ve just done something I haven’t done for quite a few weeks, I’m watching BBC Scotland 2014. I thought Stu said he might be on hence I’m watching it but I haven’t seen hide nor hair of him yet.
Nice to see John Smith’s daughter, oops think I’ve just abused her there, letting Ruth Davidson get away without interruptions whilst Annabel Ewing is constantly interrupted. Hmm remind you of another BBC Scotland programme?
The best news of the day is the accusation from Davidson that Wings is a hotbed of cybernat abuse! Funnily enough Smith never asked Davidson for proof.
Jeez just heard the guy from Sunday Express say you can’t believe anything you read on Wings Over Scotland!
ARRGHH!
There will be many more made by the creatives amongst us entering the competition posted on bella caledonia (working on mine right now) 🙂
@Survation for @Daily_Record.
YES 39 (+2)
NO 44 (-3)
DK 17 (NC)
Without DKs YES 47 NO 53
Let’s not get too het up. This is just the first of many and if you let this bother you then it’s doubtful you will last the course.
The media have us over a barrel for sure so will we just have to deal with that in our own way. Talk to people, the majority even now are not watching these late night “news” programs. Only people like us.
My Mother In Law is a No, I guarantee she will be Yes by Sept 18th. Work on your friends and family, we are many, they are few. They cannot stop or poison conversation.
You know what needs done. Get in there!
The hypocrisy.The lies. Labour/Unionists sweet little sugar coated darlings are just joking. Everyone else is just too wee, too poor and too stupid.
Floats like a butterfly, stings like a bee. The cybernats champion, Big Stu.
Yes, fantastic poster. Maybe we could have a few posts in the next few days on positive visions and ideas for a new Scotland, and get people thinking of what we can do with independence, to try and lift the mood.
Leave the unionists alone to wallow in their misery and victimhood for a couple of days.
McTernan also attacked Wings and claimed that SNP orchestrated the vile abuse during his disgraceful performance on STV.
As Jim Sillars said beware of online agent provocatuers as BT will use whatever dirty tricks they think they can get away with.
Perhaps today’s hysteria from the MSM is partly to deflect the tide for yes. The poll coming out tomorrow will be a worry for the No camp. 🙂
@SteveEllwood
Unfortunately Steve there are numpties on each side, please don’t let a few bampots change your views.
There are also lots of dirty tricks going on so they might not necessarily be Yes supporters.
Iain martin
telegraph
Inevitably, Rowling will now feel the wrath of the cybernats – the creepy online bullies who savage anyone who dares to express scepticism about breaking up the UK. But let them moan; all they do is discredit their cause by reminding people that Scotland after independence under the SNP looks like it would be a pretty illiberal place.
Alistair Darling–airbrushed out of history–lol
@Jamie Arriere
Well said!
That must be a collector’s quote when the Editor of the Scottish (sic) Sunday Express stated that you cannot believe anything you read on WoS and Sarah Smith did not comment.
Almost as worthwhile was Hamish McDonnell’s plaintive claim that he had to write for right wing unionist media because there was no alternative. Poor soul appears unaware that it is what he writes that sticks in the craw.
The Express being infamous as a bastion of reasonableness and truth. You only need to look at their fearles reporting of how Princess Diana’s “murder” affected house prices to appreciate that.
I fear that very soon now Fleet Steet’s ‘finest’ may have a great deal more trouble than usual persuading the public that they can be trusted.
Love that poster, very nice would look good as an animated gif or even a short animated film. All you creative types can get on with it.
At the end of today, my main impression is that the real target is the internet community. The next steps logical step for them will be trying to close down social media, internet access.
Marcia’s poll news is a great antidote to a bad-tempered day. And Wings now almost mainstream judging by the number of mentions on telly and radio today – no such thing as bad publicity…
Over on the Scotsman
Labour trying their utmost to discredit as many SNP people as possible.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/independence-salmond-under-pressure-to-sack-gunn-1-3441320
Hey Stew,
What do you think of the studios makeup folk?, that’s it,John Curtice jaket is on a shuggly nail from now on, not that Stew is a pole expert, just that you are more ” news worthy”.
Who’s worried about the ” Cybernats “! I listened to all three. J Beattie, BBC Scotland Newsnight thingy, and STV thingy! Trying to shut debate down? Yep! McTiernan wants us shut down! Well done STU! You were wonderful!
The butterflies are lovely! Calm………….
Now I like that.
As Lynn Blair says, it would like great on a T-shirt, and not just for the wee girlies.
Struggling to see what Scotland2014 were trying to achieve in their 30 minute slot by devoting a section to a Tom Conti interview.
Braveheart, anti-English, risky experiment, citizenship … all brought up in the interview. This is the kind of thing that was on the TV about 3 years ago!!
Re the Survation poll, it might be near to parity if the DK veer more to Yes than No. We will have to see the data tables and the questions asked.
@Marcia
When can we expect to see the poll?
I haven’t watched either Scotland2014 or Scotnight yet (not having a licence to watch live TV 😉 ), so are they worth watching, or will I only end up more fuming & wound up before bed?!
Is that free to use on the like of facebook
Thepnr
From twitter the poll is being released at midnight.
Ben Borland (Editor Sunday Express) WOS is not truthful
(not the actual quote)& the alternative MSM LIES.
It ‘s not so long since WOS was completely ignored in the media. Great to hear that the msm are starting to sit up! Be interesting to see which ones deny having spouted and promoted the lies if it is a YES on Sept 18th.
Wooooooh!
Scary Cybernats, making people cry…
Here’s one that made me cry when I was about four – Captain Scarlett & The Mysterons. Those circles used to freak me out…the CGI of the day.
Nah – anyone with half a brain and ten minutes to spare can work out for themselves that this is no ‘hot-bed’ of anything. No-one that sinister, and even the trolls are very well mannered most of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV8YbLvGrb0
Well done Rev on Scotland Tonight just the right amount of indignation, both you and Ian McWhirter played your part for fairness tonight. We’re not daft, most Scots more than anything else, can’t abide a liar.
As the social media is the only one putting forward the Yes side it is being attacked as a place of lies, loonies, bigots and bad mouthed misogynists by the unionists.
But we have to keep going and get the word out there not only on Twitter, Facebook, blogs and website but with plays, books songs, debates, films and posters like the great one of the butterfly.
Thanks Stu
Survation Poll – after don’t knows taken out, Yes 47 No 53
What is good about today is that we discover that they’re all reading WOS.
I see nothing wrong about calling folks liars if they actually are liars. Some of us simply don’t have any choice but to be anonymous. Those of us in that situation should not be using anonymity to insult or abuse NO voters, even though they do often deserve it.
I have been posting in relation to independence for over ten years and would say in all honesty that nearly all of the Yessers have been articulate, intelligent and polite. I cannot say the same for others.
BTL comments in the Unionist rags over the last decade amply demonstrate the idiocy that manifest when folks are uninformed.
However annoying it is, we must not give them any real ammo.
We know and they know how easy it is to plant a poster then run with the story. Who is going to ask for or report the truth?
It is one way that little road. We couldn’t pretend to be Unionist and cause bother. It wouldn’t get any oxygen.
The best we can do is invite them to prove abuse, and prove it comes from an actual supporter of YES, SNP, etc. Ask for evidence, they go quiet and run away.
If the abuse is so bad, the abusers could be found, prosecuted possibly and definitely given blanket coverage across all media platforms and held up as an example of the great many Nazis out there.
I do wish they’d make up their minds. We’re either a small minority of nutters, fringe almost, or they’re are loads of us. If there are loads of us, are the polls wrong?
Ah well, you can’t lie to yourself.
Inspirational and aspirational poster – how/where can I get it printed?
Marcia says:
@Survation for @Daily_Record.
YES 39 (+2)
NO 44 (-3)
DK 17 (NC)
If DKs split 11:6 then it’s equal
Other surveys suggest DKs split 70% Yes, 30% No. Which in this case would result in ….
51% Yes
49% No
Interesting poll in the Record and still a hefty 17% DKs which I think the Record was suggesting the other day could largely come our way.
No wonder they are playing the evil Cybergnats crush kittens card.
Love that poster! Well done, Rev – you were excellent on Scotland Tonight, as was Mr MacWhirter. Let Dalgety and McTernan froth and foam – they just show themselves up.
I did a Survation poll last week on #indyref – I wonder if it was this one!
Poster is the best yet! I hope to see that nice and BIG somewhere.
The choice between accepting this is the best we can do for our fellow man OR trying something new and different is a no brainer. ( or should be!)
A fairer Scotland is far more important than a seat at the “top table” of neoliberal countries.
This is the branch in the road. Let’s reject “self” and build something to be proud of.
A good start would be – no food banks / no child poverty / no nukes / no payday loans / no illegal wars / no zero hour contracts / etc etc It has nothing to do with party politics and everything to do with fairness.
The story takes on legs. Itbwas nothing about the daughter-in-law. Lying about the SHS, which can be affectedly budget cuts from Westminster but is being protected as much as possible by the Scottish Gov.
What a cover up
Campbell Gun did nothing wrong. What is a direct smear by telling the true.
Scotland 2014 hits a new low. ‘Mother of the Year’. Spin, Spin, spin. Mother less ordinary.
She suggested that the SNHS would be affected by Independence, when the SNHS is more likely to be affected by cuts from Westminster. It’s nothing to do with to whom she is related. What a load of rubbish. It was a paper who stated she was related to Pat Lally.
Alistair Darling didn’t say it. Oh YES he did.
It’s a beautiful poster and I’m proud to say I know the artist. Well done, Andy.
Just ignore all the shite coming from the media…It’s there to get you down…they’re reading every post to see which button to push next!
200,000 people, a fiver each, and today’s media orgasm is subdued.
Well done Stu. I no longer watch TV…it’s ALL shite, prepared by the State and media to keep the population in LaLa Land, Thank christ for the internet!
First sentence of the Scotsman piece linked to by Nana.
THE mother of a disabled child tonight rejected an apology from one of Alex Salmond’s spin doctors, who made inaccurate claims about her after she spoke out against independence.
Well that’s it then Campbell Gunn definitely does NOT need to resign. I never thought his e-mail was a resigning issue anyway. Let’s face it the worst part of the e-mail was his claim that she was related to Pat Lally a former Glasgow Lord Provost. Well excuse me but THAT is not abuse, hell it’s not even an insult for gawd’s sake! The guy made a MISTAKE, easily enough done when two people have the same SURNAME!
Campbell has apologised she has refused to accept it so why is she even still a story?
This whole Lally story is yet another fine example of Better Together, sorry No Thanks, manipulating the BBC and MSM, both sets of media are firmly lodged in their back pocket!
For any genuine ‘Don’t-Knows’ reading this, and doing their level best to make sense of what happened today:
Who was doing most of the talking in these interviews with indignant people, some of whom close to tears, others looking fearful or cowed? There were questions, and answers, mostly based on the assumption that some form of crime had been committed.
How much EVIDENCE do you remember hearing/seeing of what was making them so upset?
BTW – I’m genuinely curious as I only heard radio reports throughout the day. Any images I’ve seen have been via this site.
glad I taped Scotland tonight,will watch later
don’t even watch 2014 anymore
it seems the more they insult AS,the yes vote goes up,next week they will call him mother of the nation
Come on, over 55% More monies for the vulnerable. NO more food banks etc. Dignify. Get William Hill.
You were excellent tonight, Rev on Scotland Tonight as was Iain McWhirter it’s great that the yes campaign has such articulate and passionate speakers on our side.
Gorgeous poster, perfect for helping everyone calm down after what has been an interesting day to say the least.
“Cybernat” has lost it’s scare factor. I am a proud Cybernat! But I don’t abuse or bait the BTs, no matter how much I am provoked. Don’t feed the trolls!
@Lynn Blair
If it’s not copyrighted you can get inkjet paper which allows you to iron the image onto T-shirts.
🙂
Absolutely beautiful.
Forgot to say earlier about the poster, nice wings 🙂
Pitch perfect on Scotland Tonight. wd.
Love the butterfly imagery. Simple and aspirational and just the perfect counter to the unionist concerted bile fest today.
You should sing what the Dundee United supporters sing as their anthem.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNC0kIzM1Fo
Staggering display of vote No bias there from Sarah Smith. Fair enough she’s John Smith daughter and her ma’s a £300 a day House of Lords Baronet and didnt hope for much but bloody hell, that was just appalling from the whole corrupt pile of rotting pants at pacific quay.
Wonder what they’ve all been paid to destroy Scottish democracy scorched earth style like this.
Predict text?
Dignity.
Well after a crappy day,that poster makes me smile.
G’night all…..
as your quote from Gandi
First they ignore you
Then they laugh at you
Then they fight you
Then you win
They’re fighting just now over a mistake about a persons father in law, they appear to be on very shoogly ground.
http://graphics.desivalley.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/First-they-ignore-you-then-they-laugh-at-you-then-they-fight-you-then-you-win.1.jpg
meh… Gandhi
Apologies – No Thanks!
Cheer up boys and girls, that Survation poll is excellent and explains the MSM ‘cybernat’ schtick today.
BT must be bricking it – they’ve played Obama already and there was a swing to Yes 🙂
If someone mistook me as being related to an icon like Einstein or Mandela I would be flattered, confused and say “I wish but sadly, no”.
If they said I was related to Hitler or Stalin I might raise an eyebrow and say “your point is?”
So taking offence at the suggestion of a link to Pat Lally must fall into the latter camp. I hadn’t realised Lally’s stock was so low in Labour.
We brushed shoulders at the carrot counter in Asda both fondling the carrots, I like to grate a small one in my salad you know. She turned round slightly, our eyes met for a moment and she smiled.
“Are you one as well” she said indicating with her larger carrot my YES badge. “That’s three of us in the same shop”
She had a big green YES badge on. “There’s a man at the cold meat counter with one on too” she said. We exchanged a few words and I hustled to the get the cooked ham slices.
Sure enough, there he was, wearing a big blue YES. Made my day as I have been visiting a poor soul in hospital the last few nights.
Vote YES.
@ Steve
I feel your pain my friend but I do not respond well to being called a Nazi. This has been a very dark day for Scotland and we know who’s responsible.
And I also am a Manics fan. Go figure.
Good tune
Karma
Rankin to sleep
Today tells me (Stu’s interviews) that we’re scaring the careerist politicians who care little for anyone but also (that poll) we’re convincing our friends, families, neighbours and colleagues. My legs are aching from leafleting for hours today but I know if I work twice as hard for the next 98 days, and everyone here does the same, we will win.
I saw my first UKOK sticker on a car today. In Biggar.
Where can we get “No Thanks” stickers.
Not that I am suggesting anything other than reinforcing the No campaign’s efforts with their old and new memes.
Hoist with their own petard.
I am a vile cybernat using no anonymity.
BT must be bricking it – they’ve played Obama already and there was a swing to Yes
A card that was never going to play well. I was bit taken aback when Cameron clearly engineered it. It looked and sounded artificial.
Well done Rev. on Scotland Tonight – you won that confrontation hands down! McWhirter also did well enough against that lyin’ SOB McTiernan…
No tanks
Steve Ellwood 10.53. Sorry to hear that, there are pricks in every walk of life, sadly some people voting Indy fall into that category too. Sounds like you’ve come across them. Hopefully the comments section here restores your faith in humanity.
I wonder if the chap who placed a bet on No for £400,000 might have a shock when he reads the poll information?
Oh and Mike Smithson of Political Betting has just tweeted:
Survation/Record #INDYREF poll has YES with 54% to NO 46% if those sampled thought Cameron would be re-elected
If anyone accused me of being Pat “Doo” Lally’s daughter-in-law, I’d be mightily offended.
@Alfresco – should we be forming a “Manics fans for Independence” group then?! Wonder what the Wire makes of it all!
Anyway, watched Scotland Tonight and thought it was pretty good! Not sure if I can stomach the BBC’s offering going by Twitter!
Tomorrow’s another day and the news will be the same but different. We no longer have time to pay attention to the news it’s time to pay attention to the voter.
We are the voters,, so too are you family, friends and workmates. Get the badges on, the stickers on the car. Let’s be visible, there is no excuse for failing to do that.
So don’t be shy be a leader, make it clear what your intentions are and let people ask you questions. Conversations WILL win this referendum, if we have enough of them. DO it, you know it makes sense!
Robert Kerr
“I saw my first UKOK sticker on a car today. In Biggar.
Where can we get “No Thanks” stickers.”
I suppose it is appropriate that a UKOK sticker first comes to prominence in Biggar. 🙂
However, I have made a rather ironic observation.
The ‘Better Together’ mantra was immediately spoofed by simply substituting a letter ‘i’ to get ‘Bitter Together’ which I think many of us might jovially consider a more accurate descriptor.
They say lightening never strikes in the same place twice.
But if you do a similar substitution of the letter ‘i’ you get ‘No Thinks’. Which again, some might consider more accurately descriptive.
@Clootie (11.23) –
Hear hear.
Please join the SSP, if you’re not already in. (Okay, okay, I’m being a bit ‘forward’, but if you don’t ask you don’t get, right?)
We need people like you. Thirty years ago, the Labour Party would’ve snapped you up gladly. Now? Look at the state of them. What an embarrassment.
This ongoing stushie should act as a final warning to anyone still harbouring quaint notions that Labour (‘Scottish blend’ or otherwise) stands for the ‘ordinary’ person – they clearly have extreme difficulty in identifying what ‘ordinary’ means.
No doubt Johann Lamont will position herself (as scorpion-like as she is capable of) for delivery of a coup-de-grace to Alex Salmond tomorrow. The poor, beleaguered FM will then have to resort to outlining chapter and verse of Lallygate.
Aye – chapter and verse.
She can’t NOT raise it now, eh? Nor can Wee Ruth, and naebdy’s bothered about Wee Wullie anyroad, so – who’s most feart, as the dust settles overnight?
After a day that redefines the saying “storm in a teacup”, that poll information will make me sleep much sounder. So what now for the money behind Better Together i.e. the Tories? Play down their chances of winning in 2015 or risk losing their precious union?
Editor of UK Newspaper tells tv viewers not to believe all you read on a website. Dear oh dear, was this public service broadcasting?
O/T a copy of P&J poll
https://archive.today/etQqc
The Record poll
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bombshell-daily-record-poll-shows-3678091
Separation Klaxon
I won’t be taking the gloves off for a long time yet, and most likely, well keep them on until well past the Yes win on the 18th September.
I will do so in expectation of skulduggery and attacks continuing for some bruising length upon the integrity and democratic rights of this nation.
As for Ms Rowling’s and Ms Lally’s political loyalties – a woman’s love is like the morning dew. It can fall on a horse turd as easily as on a rose.
I realise Cameron’s little helpers, the lib dems, are a joke party of the fringes now, but apparently some of Clegg’s loyal spinners are outraged by ‘misogynism’. Of which they do not of course offer any proof. That would be too much to expect.
So that would be the party of Lord Rennard lecturing others on imagined misogyny. Done purely the strength of a handfull of random internet trolls and someone incorrectly saying a member of Labour’s shadow cabinet was a relative of a Labour Lord Provost who had the same last name.
Perhaps there’s a very good reason so many people are laughing at Clegg’s Liberal Democrats and refer to them as Clegg’s Lost Deposits?
It is a blessed relief these yellow tories are now a complete irrelevance to scotish politics.
Fed up watching, time for involving.
Rev, you done us proud on Scotland Tonight. I missed the start of the programme and didn’t know who the lady you were on the show with.
I thought that Isa, who stays up the high flat with Jack and Victor, in Still Game, had gate crashed the show for a laugh.
Isa is great you leave her alone. Isa for First Minister.
@Marcia
I took a look at the Record few seconds ago and there is a solitary pro union post which was thumbed down at -7
refreshed to see if any further comments and the counter has been reset to zero.
Marcia
Brilliant way to end the day, with the Survation Poll showing almost parity.
Sweet dreams.
Caz-M..That is more offensive than Gunn’s text. Isa in still game is wonderful in comparison to thon!
Nice screen saver Rev.
can u make the YES a wee bit bigger or can some one explain how i could edit it on a pc widows 7 64bit. i like pottering about on the computer but not sure how to edit photo’s
Very calming after a pretty rough day.
@call me dave
That was ‘grate’. No, really.
There are a lot of Pro Indy sites on Facebook. I think it’s great! They have mushroomed over the last few months! The trouble is that there is no moderation on Facebook and although I love all the enthusiasm that’s there, some people do get carried away by the emotion of it all. Today I was explaining that OTHER sites like Wings , Bella , Newsnet have some kind of moderation and don’t allow obscene language and such. Lots of people are now checking people that use really bad language, so hopefully those on Facebook can moderate themselves in future.
According to the latest poll if Scots believe Cameron will win the next general election then it will be a comfortable victory for Yes. So in the weeks running up to the referendum look out for a surprising huge lead for Labour in UK opinion polls.
For me this also shows a very short term view some Scots have when it comes to the future of their country. They believe that if Labour wins the next election then everything’s hunky dorey. Do these poeple not think more than 5 years into the future, what about all the elections after that?
Sorry! That sounds as if I persuaded Facebook people to moderate their language. No! It just seems to be happening naturally.
I noticed the Daily Express man on the BBC last night and John McTernan (a rank bad yin) on STV both getting their little dig in about WoS. The blog must be really hurting the NO campaign. Keep up the good work. No let up.
The McTernan/McWhirter fight was entertaining. It was just as well they were in different studios.
Stu, you’re the best.
But those butterflies – up there with the Kelpies.
______________________________________________________
I walked into a forest.
After a few steps I noticed a bluebell.
As I bent down I could see it was diseased.
‘This whole forest is infected with something’, I thought.
I left immediately.
Forests are really vicious, nasty and disgusting.
If someone had suggested I might be related to Pat Lally I’d say “naw, you’re mistaken”. If, however, it had been Michael Kelly, THAT would be actionable.
Daily Record Poll
__________________
James123 says:
12 June, 2014 at 12:59 am
According to the latest poll
if Scots believe Cameron will win the next general election then it will be a comfortable victory for Yes.
So in the weeks running up to the referendum look out for a surprising huge lead for Labour in UK opinion polls.
_____________
This is the alternative – there is no escape especially for Labour voters in 2015
‘I’ll govern like Tory leader Margaret Thatcher,’ says Ed ‘Red’ Miliband
ED Miliband risked ridicule last night by declaring his desire to govern Britain like Margaret Thatcher.
By: Macer HallPublished: Tue, February 11, 2014
It’s good to spend an hour with friends, project 10 years from our YES -and now just have a wee smile!
The Scotsman cartoon
jk rowling/cybernats
http://www.scotsman.com/news/the-scotsman-cartoon-jk-rowling-backs-no-campaign-1-3441270
Back to the butterflies. I’m full of admiration for the quality of the art. Simple, almost minimalist. The cloud of serene butterflies flying up and away towards some bright unseen future, with some already beyond the confines of the page.
And the Scotland butterfly, no smaller or less bright than the others. Left behind, but the plucky angle of the wings and the sheer effort and determination they portray shows that it will catch up with the rest of the flock soon and take its place in the colourful cloud.
It bypasses reason and hits you right in the centre of your emotions. I took one look at it and burst into tears. (And I’m a hard-bitten pathologist who can dismember a kitten without a second thought.) You want something to appeal to women? I think you got it.
Great uplifting poster.
Would be nice to see few more along these lines.
Maybe a daisy pushing up through the weeds.
Or a sunbeam cutting through the clouds 🙂
@Morag G Kerr, an here’sme thinking it should be Midgies,
Grrrrr Grrrrrr.
Oh the Midgies the Midgies
am no gonna kid ye’s
they’ll settle on ye
an bite.
Ach well better thaim
than the blood suckers
of Westminster
Now that’s a fine piece of artwork. 🙂
SteveEllwood says:
11 June, 2014 at 10:53 pm
‘Got involved in a spat on a FB page; with some numpty Yes supporters, who were hating on Rowling… and saying they would never speak to a No voter again.
Made this English Yes supporter very uncomfortable’
It is a pity we have to put up our hands and say we have these people – let us hope they are less in number than the BT mob. It still does not excuse them and whether they like Ms Rowling’s actions or not,it is a free Country and hopefully more Free after the 18th with a ‘tad’ more understanding for the point of view of others.
Like the poster – maybe (clever?)symbols as much as words are required to convert some with No or DK leaning
Hard to believe that it was just a few weeks ago that the Weirs had to write a pleading letter to the media regards the abuse they received for their donation. This was met by sneering by some of the so called journalists and a disgraceful comment, repeated, by a Tory Msp.
The social media reaction to them, who keep themselves to themselves was horrible and personal.
If I were the Weirs I would be deeply disappointed and hurt over the tone and wording of JKR’s announcement after what they have suffered, but that’s just my view.
Anyway, if allowed to dream, and I had the Weirs dosh, I would leave Scotland a lasting legacy by setting up a Scottish based and owned national daily to give some sort of balance to the media, recruit and poach the brightest and best, for there is a market out there for the 45% of us whose views are not reflected by the media.
Rowling’s £1 million for No Guardian front page report gets nearly three and a half thousand comments next to a pretty surreal 2010 Rik Mayall England World cup song video. Another weird day in teamGB/Scotland.
This will all blow over in the next couple of days, and it will soon be forgotten. At some point, a new piece of information, or one of the Westminster mob will say or do something, and all focus will go on that.
But by god …if the Unionists think that websites like this are bad, then they should read the comments on some article in papers like The Scotsman and Mai. Well in the gutter and truly shocking. I never comment in papers anymore because the vitriol can be pretty extreme.
I’m begining to wonder just how many of the over the top comments are actually coming from unionists.They see the way they can drag the MSM around on a lead,we know they have people full time commenting on the campaign,its just a short jump to start with the anti English stuff or to hassle folk on line.And hey presto off goes the BBC with another story.
Cheery boost for jam tomorrow Brown again. Federal UKOK if its yes and no, which is pretty slick for this guy.
https://archive.today/HgUmC
The Weirs could take the Scotsman off the receivers hands, for tuppence.
Stu/Bateman/Bella/Newsnet/MacWhirter/Lally(Oohs) in charge
Now that would be a paper worth buying
The story had Wings from a Labour/Party activist lying about the NHS (being pressurised by Westminster) and a Union supporter bringing gifts (pay back?) and whose arguments were totally suspect (brainwashed?) into supporting NO. The lies and the faults in the argument were being question. The right of anyone to speak out or donate or vote was not being questioned. Labour/Unionists and the MSM were lying and covering up again.
Austerity from Westminster especially for single mums and children and the underfunding of the NHS and the vulnerable. £20Billion of Welfare cuts. Food banks etc. Rewards and tax breaks for the wealthier at the expense of the vulnerable. Other countries in the world do not act like this (JK) Scotland’s place in the world. Scottish medical research is world famous because of free tertiary education. Medical research is not UK based (small minded JK) it is internationally based. Good research attracts world wide funding no matter where it is based.
The attacks on the most vulnerable will lead to pressure on the NHS, social service etc. Starving people get sick. That is the argument Unionists get do seem to get and they lie about it and care even less. An Independent Scotland could cut it’s cloth to suit it’s purse. ‘It’s not what you have but how you use it’. Priorities could change and not be directed or dictated by Westminster. Making Scotland a fairer, better mor equal society in common with most countries in Europe etc.
O/T Daily record poll has Yes in front if Cameron is PM
Reading between the lines here the Rev is about to come under a full blown attack
‘Federal UK’ Don’t believe a word if it. It’s just another form of control from the biggest control freak on the planet. Secrecy and lies not open government.
Tattie-bogle
I said the same thing yesterday. I have an uneasy feeling.
JLT
just doing some catch up as i am currently scunnered with the bullshit feel like disconnecting my internet till the 18th sept . my facebook is full of yes supporters now through pointing them in the right direction.
The P&J had 90%?
The voting intentions for YES are certainly higher than reported. That’s the cause of the hysteria from Labour/Unionists and MSM. The Polls are being manipulated by UK PR Companies exploiting public monies.The piggies in the middle. The Piper calling the tune.
The invisible PR man punter (£40,000) would be extremely disappointed. So will William Hill if they don’t get more money on a NO vote. William Hill taken to the cleaners. The PR man will need a new suit.
Rowling’s dirge analysed is far more right-wing than left.
She’s trying to argue the staus quo, the ‘global world’ as she calls it, of which she is a mass market and very successful part, is here to stay so we’d better get used to it because theirs no extracating ourselves from it.
It is defeatist, uneducated, denies the masses opportunity and rights, and would be perfidious if it was not so glaringly silly.
Beats ‘Scotland – NO THANKS’.
You and I once fancied ourselves birds, and we were happy even when we flapped our wings and fell down and bruised ourselves, but the truth is that we were birds without wings. You were a robin and I was a blackbird, and there were some who were eagles, or vultures, or pretty goldfinches, but none of us had wings.
For birds with wings nothing changes; they fly where they will and they know nothing about borders and their quarrels are very small.
But we are always confined to earth, no matter how much we climb to the high places and flap our arms. Because we cannot fly, we are condemned to do things that do not agree with us. Because we have no wings we are pushed into struggles and abominations that we did not seek, and then, after all that, the years go by, the mountains are levelled, the valleys rise, the rivers are blocked by sand and the cliffs fall into the sea.”
? Louis de Bernières, Birds Without Wings
Time to give Scotland some wings.
With reference to the Daily record poll, if the No campaign win the referendum, then the 2015 election opinion polls prior to 18/9 will have limited or even little bearing on the result as David Cameron ( the REAL LEADER of “Better together”) will walk into Downing st.on the back of ” the total euphoria” of victory. He will take all the credit for “saving the union” and the ” union flag waving media” will ensure that “the hero of the day” will be back in power for another 5 years of” tory austerity”. Make NO MISTAKE, all labour voters in Scotland, a NO VICTORY, will VIRTUALLY GUARANTEE A TORY/ RIGHT WING GOVERNMENT IN 2015.Cameron will be “likened to Churchill on VE day” on September 19th by the Westminster controlled media.
Perhaps, the Daily record poll, indicates that “the penny is finally dropping” with the Scottish electorate ?
O/T – possibly
The poster is simple and sends a message.
Just like the only question those in Scotland are being asked to vote on.
If a ‘No’ or DK was asked that simple question by a street canvasser, would they be asking all the distracting questions and issues that are being thrown around from every corner before giving a Yes, No or DK?
I doubt it – most would give a pretty quick response after, at best, amoment’s thought.
Stuart
If you can, please try and post the BBC interview with Macwhirter and MacTernan. By all accounts Macwhirter was having nothing to do with the other’s lickspittle haverings.
read the comments on some article in papers like The Scotsman and Mai. Well in the gutter and truly shocking.
The Scotsman and its like could block extremist comments if it wishes but doesn’t. Most are anonymous which allows the Scotsman to give the impression anybody suuporting democracy is posting from a lunatic asylum. They are not right-wing extremists or Labour firebrands determined to muddy the water.
I was cyber abused on the Scotsman. Salmond has been called every evil dictator’s name, but hey, dont point out a Labour party member has an agenda, its bullying.
https://archive.today/etQqc
1979 Referendum Results –
Total = YES = 1,230,937 (32.85 per cent )
NO = 1,153,502 (30.78 per cent )
YES MAJORITY = 77,435.
No-one believes that we have gone down in the vote since 1979.
More activists are working today than were apparent back when we won the vote all those years ago.
J K ROWLING is apparently advocating a life on the buroo because that was where she made her money.
I don`t recall her offering to repay the taxes I paid to fund her literary efforts while she languished on the buroo at my (OUR) expense.
An Independent Scotland will still have all the offices of the Welfare State that fed and clothed Rowling and her weans.
By the way – Rowling never declared to JobcentrePlus that she was working during the time she was illegally claiming State benefits and Housing Benefits.
One rule for the wealthy but a wrecking rule for us.
Rowling has one vote – versus the 1979 result and the current surge “FOR” Independence.
The Polls are obviously rigged – but they were rigged in 2011 when SNP won a majority versus the Poll forecasts.
Good show last night.
FMQ’s should be interesting today.
The whole ‘grass roots’ thingy seems to have been lost from the CL intro. Funny that….
Like the poster. Seen it yesterday.
Gunn had better not get sacked, under pressure for the lying MSM, trying to divert the whole debate. Gunn did not smear anyone. Labour/Unionists lied and smeared the NHS, at their peril. Not a good PR stunt, especially if aimed at women. Women are not too wee, too poor or stupid.
There are two things the Nae Chancers fear from the YES side.
I say Yes side and not the Official Yes Campaign.
The Official Yes Campaign has been neutralised, in their eyes by way of the MSM purchase through the London Newsprint Establishment and the BBC, by way of HM Goverrnment.
The thee menaces they do not control and are scareing them witless.
The first is Alec Salmond opening up and letting it rip. He is a modern day political Mons Meg and given access to the MSN and BBC will knock down castles. He is the most consumate politician the UK has seen, certainly since the War and despite the lies and smears is easily the most respected and admired politician in the game, better than Obama.
This is why they are demonising him and trying to create an aura of suspician and falsehood around him. Classic propaganda technique.
The second is the blogosphere and the cyber pro Yes bloggers. So, the demonise this too and please be aware that some if not most of the so-called cybernat abuse could well be coming from NO activists or agents provocateurs. This will be racked up as September approaches. Isolate and demonise is all they can try and it will be intensified at a very personal level.
The third is the one they cannot control or smear. It is the 4 week foot soldier one on the doorstep.
The only hope the NO side have is to sicken our doorstep activists and they lose heart.
Courage mes Braves.
They have come to fight us, we know we are going to win and so do they.
Hold fast, hold the line and they will crumble.
Stripped of all the propaganda and bile the No campaign is a empty Paper Tiger.
Glen Campbell of BBC Scotland is telling us what will happen regards FMQs at Holyrood today.
How the hell does he know so much about what Scottish Labour and the rest of them will be talking about.
Unless the questions to the First Minister are wrote jointly by BBC Scotland and the opposition parties, they then use highlighter to show up the sound bites that will be shown on news bulletins throughout the day.
spot the deliberate mistake in my post above.
Bottle of wine to the first person who spots the one I am thinking about, not my grammer and syntax ones.
caz-m
The News for today was written yesterday.
Goebbels would have approved.
I like the poster and good to see most of the other “butterflags”, are of small nations like Scotland, with the exception of Germany and Canada.
Good interview with Johnny Beattie. Further media exposure comes with risks. Take care in the run-in. We are here to support you.
Onwards and upwards.
Stu, when they hauled you over to Bristol for nothing yesterday, who was left in your home? Was it just the rats and kitty? I’d get a bugsweeper.
Bit of a co-incidence isn’t it?!
Lallygate and J K Rowling stories break on the same day…..
@ GraemeMenzies
There are no coincidences at this stage of the game, except the naw feckups.
Doug Daniel says
“Ha! I’m apparently weird because I’m an adult male who likes the Manic Street Preachers.
(Mind you, I did basically accuse Chris Deerin of being a racist…)”
Ysee now its people like you who give us all a bad name,
no wonder they’re always on our case when we have people like you in our camp.
Manic street preachers?
What the hell is wrong with you?
Donna b-s says
“Cybernats paint butterflies in online attack!”
Never been attacked by a swarm of butterflies, have you?
Its no funny!
Just watch Hitchcocks “The Birds” and think butterflies,
a cannie sleep at night.
Steve Ellwood says
“Made this English Yes supporter very uncomfortable.”
Any time you feel like that Steve go and look at the comments (on any given day ) on the Daily Hiel then come on here that’ll fix it. 🙂
GMS 9.00am, there will be no discussion on C Lally, but a discussion on Internet abuse from both sides,
We are who we are,& only we know who we are,& sometimes am lost as to who I am,a lot of Wingers know who I am,as I know who they are,& they know who they are,& WE ARE WINGERS.
Amazing how it sums up the whole debate with such a simple graphic. Kudos to the artist.
I didn’t think I’d do it – I turned over to wake up with the BBC Today “show”, having started with GMS. By 06.30 ( I’m on a farm ) I’d had enough of the onesidedness of Naughtie & co who even included Smith’s interjection over Ewing last night.
I’ve decided that listening to the Westminster lot going at one another is preferable – at least it’s three way aggression rather than three to one.
Not a significant mention of the other side of the debate which Beattie briefly got to yesterday
John McTernan
describes himself as Writer, Thinker, Strategist
John has an extremely high opinion of himself alloyed to an extremely low opinion of almost everyone else.
One of his great contributions as a thinker to British politics is this:-
On 16 December 2013, on the Daily Politics show, when questioned about the rights of people to demand a referendum on leaving the European Union,
McTernan said there shouldn’t be a referendum and
“I don’t care if they [the people] want it, they want a lot of things but they can’t have them”.
What a humble guy John McTernan is.
We should see more of him on TV.
Although I’m not sure if Julia Gillard would agree.
Julia is the ex Australia Prime Minister whose style, somewhat akin to John’s, was too abrasive for Australian voters who turned against her, and John, and basically got rid of the pair of them.
Which is why he’s back in the UK and looking for any kind of gutter political work he can find.
He need look no further than BT/BBC/STV.
I didn’t get to worked up about the Lally story or JK Rowling.
But I do think that it is Alistair Darling who owes this woman Lally an apology. He used her, knowing quite well that there would be a backlash against her. And being the coward that he is, Darling is nowhere to be seen.
Clair Lally will be tomorrow’s fish and chip paper, but because of Darling using her, she personally, will have to live with any local abuse that will comes her way.
JK Rowling is also demanding the right to free speech, well she will have no problem with the people who want to spread the word of having a “Harry Potter Book Burning Festival” at the top of Carlton Hill in Edinburgh sometime soon.
Graeme Menzies said:
Lallygate and J K Rowling stories break on same day. Bit of a co-incidence, isn’t it?!
Absolutely amazing.
The MSM has as usual divert the legitimate argument to an attack on the SNP and the internet.
No wonder people get angry about the bias and inaccuracy of the MSM.
Multimillionaires getting £Millions of tax breaks since the 2011 Budget, while the vulnerable and sick are starving. Unionists lying and false representation. The attacks on NHS/Education by Westminster and an ever increasing debt. Scotland (secretly) being defrauded by Westminster.
@WantonWampam
Yes I remember voting in that referendum and agree it was close then, but due to default by Labour MP intervention vis-a-vis % turnout not achieved the Yes vote wasn’t carried.
Will be different this time as for sure the turnout will be very high, as it should be, and no jigging the result.
Caz said:
“Harry Potter Book Burning Festival” top of Carlton Hill in Edinburgh sometime soon.
I tried to read one once but the prose is turgid, the plot elements derivative.
However …
No book burning! (Jest or no jest.)
If there’s one thing Rowling has done is get children back to reading books again, although they are assaulted from all sides to buy Kindle pads instead.
@caz-m
Go easy on the ‘book-burning’.
People might start thinking we’re Nazis.
🙂
Hello fellow yes campaigners, I need some help! while watching the news lastnight the 1 million donation to the No campaign from JK Rowling was mentioned, then my wife lifted her head out of her magazine and calmly stated “thats the last I’l watch any of her F-ing films”, then went back to reading her magazine.
My problem is do I now report my wife for possible abuse of JK Rowling, because I know my wife has never met her, and I know my wife has never actually read even one of her books.
Or maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, if I every want to have a homelife again.
Its a dilemma.
Just heard fantastic performance by Anabelle Ewing on GMS with Jim Naughtie. She highlighted the online attacks on Sturgeon, Salmond and the Weirs to explode the line that it was all nasty cybernets vs Lally and Rowling. Very impressive media performance, left Naughtie scrambling.
Any particular reason you chose to ignore the biggest indyref story today – J K Rowling’s donation and the subsequent abuse she was subject to?
Only I have a sneaking suspicion if Better Together supporters had behaved like that, you’d have mentioned it?
@BTP 8.08am
Nice one.
We can win this and we will win this if we hold the line and stay positive, because there’s a lot to be positive about in an iScotland.
Patrician says
“Love that poster, very nice would look good as an animated gif or even a short animated film. All you creative types can get on with it.”
I think your onto to something there Patrician.
That would be a powerful broadcast the night before the vote.
@ Bugger (the Panda)
Just the one bottle? Two, three even?
At the herald this morning the commentators are arguing re the twitter abuse. I am not signed in on the herald so perhaps someone here can post the passage re abuse mostly aimed at yes voters in the guardian article below.
Also Dignity charity account was hacked. Someone on here linked to the page last night.
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/in-full-jk-rowlings-better-together-statement.1402479348
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/04/scottish-independence-alex-salmond-kim-jong-il-alistair-darling
In a poll for the Scottish Sunday Express conducted in March, it was found that 21% of those planning to vote Yes have received abuse or threats compared to 8% of those planning to vote No.
@BTP
Is it this phrase “The thee menaces”. Doesn’t make any sense to me. Should it eb “three”.
GMS Ferguslie park Paisley lots of Dont Knows/they dont know that Scotland is a wealthy Country, there,s a big hall there Yes Scotland get your finger out & book that hall.
Quick look at my parents Daily Rancid and Sun and both going with front page cybernat attacks on JK Rowling. They actually publish some abusive tweets showing names and faces, so don’t know about that.
The abuse is wrong, but why didn’t Rowling simply make a donation, say she was in favour of the UK, without making an overtly political statement that could have been drafted by BT, accusing only one side of being ”death eaters”!
Anyway we need to stay positive, and give them no ammo.
@Davy
From a wee wife’s perspective I would advise least said soonest mended.
My poor hubby just puts his earplugs in when he gets home…air round here gets a bit blue around news time.
In fact I’ve noticed the dog disappears round 6pm now as well…
Bunter said: why didn’t Rowling simply make a donation, say she was in favour of the UK, without making an overtly political statement that
How else would we know she is right-wing and ill-informed?
I’m so glad you’re her, not just Stu but all those below the line too.
Butterflies are gorgeous.
The bit about the DRs poll which says if Cameron and the Torys got in the YES vote goes up – have folk not actually looked at the alternative or are they still in the ” my grandfather voted Labour , my father voted labour and what was good enough for them is …….”
Have they not noticed that there isn’t a fag paper between them?
@bunter
Yes, my thoughts too. She didn’t need to make such a longwinded and pre-conceived statement which was reported extentsively in the papers and tv.
But to be expected, as she donates to Labour party, and is good friends with Broon and his wife, and they don’t live too far from each other.
Where are all these abusive comments from those dastardly Cybernats?
My goodness, i’m hardly politically unaware and i’m connectrd to the Web at all waking hours via my smartphone… and I just can’t for the life of me, find those ‘Vile’ comments (as just announced by Kaye Adams (of BBC union supporting fame), afteraising the issue about 2 Women on the no side getting abuse (but ignoring Mrs Weir completely).
Here is some abuse from me. Fuck BBC Scotland!
Davy said: Its a dilemma.
Far from it.
Your wife’s remarks prove what I said yesterday, Rowling’s intervention and Hapless Gordon’s appearance will alienate many.
Rowling’s fans are children, not women.
Brown is reviled on all sides.
(PS: I enjoyed your wry remarks!)
@Dorothy Devine
All my family have always voted labour and I was a labour party member until the pound announcement by Osborne and then backed by Ed Balls. That was the final straw, for me, although I’d been thinking of leaving for a number of years before this anyway.
Rev, in light of latest Survation poll can your next leaflet simply read “Vote No & get Tory / UKIP” and include that creepy picture of Lord Monckton……and throw in Thatcher standing with Gordon Brown for good measure.
ta
Great image.
If anyone is getting depressed with the level of vitriol and bias, just remember: the strength of opposition from Westminster and their MSM organs highlights how much they NEED to keep Scotland within their control. It highlights how viable Scotland is as a nation.
They aint doing all this for our benefit.
O/T
That elusive Wings Edinburgh night is on.
4th July. The anniversary of the USA making the risky, foolish and ultimately disasterous declaration of their independence.
The venue: The Newsroom, Leith Street, Edinburgh. 7.30-8pm kickoff.
Do me a wee favour and post (Off Topic to avoid clogging up) a bit of support before I shell out the booking fee.
With Stu’s permission I will mention this a few times in due course, higher up the thread!
O/T Finished off canvassing in Brunstfield/Greenhill area of Edinburgh last night. Quite a wealthy area, but we still got more than 50% Yes and some favourable and open-minded don’t knows. Plus after that I got to go to Bennet’s Bar, which was a very nice mid-week bonus.
Paul over on Wee Ginger Dug has produced a whole range of cracking images that people can use around the ‘No Thanks’ slogan.
Brilliant stuff:
weegingerdug.wordpress.com/
I live on the same street as Rowling.
Not much I can do when I see her to change her mind from right to left. She’s a bit of a local recluse.
It isn’t safe to wave a hello to her. There’s always a security guard 20 feet behind, the guy wearing the BIG jacket and the Barlinnie bruises.
call me dave 11.44pm.
Brilliant, but I think you should maybe cut down on reading the Mills and Boon though.:-)
The MSM splurge on JK Rowling this morning seems designed to elicit sympathy for a multi-billionaire. Curious.
Anyway, thought the Rev did well on Scotland Tonight last night, albeit against an opponent who was neither articulate nor able to demonstrate an understanding of the debate (that assessment/abuse was co-ordinated with people in high places, Mr McTernan).
ScottyC1314
Great idea, the threat of UKIP and the Tories will swing votes, but as YES has to be positive, nothing to stop us highlighting some realities.
bookie from hell
Please don’t tempt me to click onto the Scotsman! Especially to something from their so-called cartoonists, who must be the lowest of the low in a once respected newspaper.
Feel better now for rejecting your invitation, well-meaning as it may have been.
Chatting with my neighbour about the referendum.
His wife is very favourable but from him I get the following “I don’t like all these windfarms”
Getting across all the positives such as free care for the elderly, free prescription, bus passes etc which will be gone after a no vote I’m still up against a brick wall[closed mind]
By the way there are no windfarms round here!
Davy says
“Or maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, if I every want to have a homelife again.”
That is a dilemma Davy, I don’t know what to suggest, but on balance I would probably stick her in. 😉
@ItalianJob
You are right it was written two but I actually gave three menaces. Missed it on reading.
One bottle, next time I am up for a Wingers Swally Night.
Hypothetically, I’d be very interested to see a scientific study into what conclusions a genuinely neutral observer would draw from watching last nights Scotland 2014. Would their raw instincts call upon sympathy for the spokesperson who was interrupted and hectored, or would they feel drawn towards the dominating compliance of the ‘herd’?
I’m really not sure. My own instincts tell me it defeats the purpose of conversation to deny one side of the argument the right to speak, and when that is exactly what happens, it becomes disingenuous to call that conversation impartial.
I think the Scottish news media may have crossed an important threshold. I think it was Craig Murray who said words to the effect that a prerequisite of mind control was having faith in the mind controller. My instincts tell me that fewer and fewer of us have any faith in what we hear on our TV’s. We may have crossed the Rubicon where we are alert to, and thus immune to, thought control from our media.
Thought provoking poster.
Would love to see it animated and shown during the Commomwealth games to a worldwide audience.
OK Mat gets one too , not two.
The stuff in the papers today regards Rowling is written to elicit sympathy, going in heavy with all her good deeds for which she should be rightly praised.
The unknown will be the reaction to this from ordinary folk, mainly undecided.
Nicoll in the Sun says, that the donation itself was never going to change much, but the cyber ”attacks” by whoever, may do.
His editorial suggests that folk should be thinking, is this the type of indy Scotland we want, as if staying in the Union will make social media trolls go away duh.
Brilliant quote from Derek Bateman hits the nail on the head …
“The trick with BT is to remember they aren’t after the cognoscenti – they are aiming everything at soft voters in Labour heartlands where they have no fear of independence but no love of the SNP. If you put in their mind at every turn that Alex Salmond struts like Mussolini and has Hitler tendencies, they might believe you. Vilify and vanquish. To hell with reason. Who cares about ‘quality of debate?’ Just win at any cost. And turn up at St Giles the Sunday after and smile for the cameras.”
….. and a new word for me – ‘cognoscenti’. A very useful word in the debate.
Oh and lets not give any of these Unionist media organisations any money, clicks or reading figures.
@Bugger (the Panda)
Hooray. Ta. And with you currently living in France, I’m sure it will be a good bottle.
I got UNFRIENDED by a NOT HANKSER for posting the page about the foreign investment in Scotland at a high for 2013..they cant take it..asking silly questions about immigration and where they are going to stay..they smell defeat, and their getting angrier by the day, they should be about boiling point come September 18th…xxx
MajorBloodnock
Pleasantly surprised to hear your results in Bruntsfield/Greenhill–perhaps more students and lesser mortals in the area than a wee bit further north into the Grange, where the affluent residents don’t have to worry about foodbanks, bedroom tax, etc.
If you get 50% YES in the Grange it’s all over bar the shouting!
It was so funny hearing Jim Naughie being handed his private parts by Anabella Ewing on the radio this morning, top job Anabella.
MajorBloodnock
Should have said “well done” for what you are doing.
Not accepting an apology shows that Clare Lally is not an ‘ordinary person’ but an out-and-out Labour activist.
Gillian Duffy, a real ordinary person and long standing Labour voter, accepted Gordon Brown’s apology after he called her a “bigot”.
Big difference.
The P&J poll
archive.today/etQqc
@Grouse Beater
“I live on the same street as Rowling.
Not much I can do when I see her to change her mind from right to left. She’s a bit of a local recluse.
It isn’t safe to wave a hello to her. There’s always a security guard 20 feet behind, the guy wearing the BIG jacket and the Barlinnie bruises.”
Try pointing a stick at her and shouting “Voteus Yesio!” 😉
Also… Pretty flutterbyes! 😀
Guessing the UK one got caught and eaten by a bunch of fat cats? 😉
Alba4Eva I was on the Facebook Page for Scotland’s Big Yes/No Debate.Normally a good humoured, but mostly Yes leaning place.
I’m an English Yes (and SNP member as it happens).
The tone on there was very hostile to JKR. I asked them to think about the Wier’s donation, and how hypocritical we’d look.
Loads of stuff about her being a class ("Tractor" - Ed); “She’s no a Scottish lassie, why should she be able to donate”
“I hate every No voter and will never speak to them any again” and lots more.
Oh, and I was accused of not being a Yes voter, not actually having a vote.
Got bad enough the admins iced the thred.
caz-m says:
12 June, 2014 at 8:39 am
Clair Lally will ……. have to live with any local abuse that will come her way.
With £40,000 worth of engineering eyesore in her front garden lowering the tone of the neighbourhood and depressing nearby house prices even further,
I’d say the local abuse has been around for quite a while, preceding this cafuffle,
and won’t be going anywhere soon.
One report said that it takes quite some time to navigate the 10 level ramp.
Now that ramp must have issues, like,
if it’s raining, then what? (I’d just carry the wee lassie into the house to make sure she didn’t get soaked.)
And frost and ice on the ramp, what then. Clearing or grit required.
And snow, 2 inches 4 inches 6 inches deep, imagine the difficulty getting up or down in that.
I’m sure the neighbours have quite a few stories to tell.
There’s a slightly funny side too – per Google, the family drive a Peugeot INDEPENDENCE !!
You can see one here –
http://www.alliedmobility.com/vehicle_range/wheelchair_accessible_cars_and_mpvs/peugeot_independence/?gclid=CNH58OPu874CFa3LtAodRm0AKA
@galamcennalath says:
12 June, 2014 at 9:21 am
“Brilliant quote from Derek Bateman hits the nail on the head.”
Yes very true. Good word ‘cognoscenti’. Refers to knowledgeable people/people in the know. Like all of us here on wings.
I like that we are all now ‘cognoscenti’.
@Bugger (the Panda)
Splendid. Any first growth claret will do. Top notch red Burgundy also acceptable. Mind you, I’m b*stirt english, so a half bottle of southern sink cleanser it is.
Make no mistake, the british establishment are using every dirty trick in their arsenal now. The state run BBC has become wholly unreliable, promulgating lies and mis-truths 24/7 in relation to independence. It is clearly being used by Westminster (as has happened before).
We all need to get wise, and realise that London will be using agents provocateurs to egg people on online, or to encourage abusive arguments. They will also use such people to post abuse online whilst pretending to be YES supporters. They will also try to spread disagreement within the YES movement. Be wise to it, and don’t let it happen. Don’t join in.
Given that we know that Westminster even tried to get Vladimir Putin to speak out against Scottish independence, we should expect them to use EVERY underhand trick. Before her sad death, Margo McDonald, asked the Home office if they could confirm whether they would or would not use the UK intelligence services during the referendum. Their response was quite telling – ‘NO COMMENT’.
There is also clearly a co-ordinated attempt to drag the debate into the gutter with the better together mob. The anti independence campaign has NO winning arguments, so now they want to debase the entire debate. DO NOT let them do it. Get out there and post/spread the positive arguments for independence, do not let the disingenuous unionist anti independence campaign drag our debate into the gutter. Nothing will make unionists happier than having YES supporters involved in tedious nonsense arguments all day long. It is a distraction from the referendum campaign.
As the old saying goes;
‘never wrestle with a pig, you will get dirty and the pig will enjoy it’
If i was JK Rowling I would be more hurt by that Scotsman cartoon, she looks like a Jesus drag act!
The tactics around Claire Lally are clear. If the MSM can give the internet a bad name, low information voters are less likely to use it to look for facts if they think all they will see is muck.
(They are particularly terrified that people will read WoS.)
What the No campaign can’t do though is control everyday conversations. So if you know someone who gets all their information from the MSM, talk to them – calmly and nicely 🙂
BTW, BBC & STV, were both at Clare Lally’s house filming for their news shows.
No shots of the outside though – you know the place where the £40000 ramp monstrosity is ?
I mean it must be a tourist attraction by now, but the TV media give it no coverage whatsoever.
What are Visit Scotland going to say?
@Bugger (the Panda) and
@Mat
Nice one. I have a wine calender (xmas present from the in-laws) in front of me. Each day has a new wine, from all differnt parts of teh worls, and today’s funnily enough is a Burgundy – Domaine Jean Pascal Bourgogne Chardonnay 2008.
Wine and food pairing: Have as an aperatif while relaxing next to the pool, ocean or lake.
Cheese pairing: St Marcelin. (One of my favourites)
Doh spelling. Sorry
Can I just put this out there?
I believe that music is a very powerful tool.
Does anyone know The Proclaimers? I was just thinking that a re-release of (and this is just a suggestion) ‘Cap In Hand’ or some other of their great songs along with a positive Yes video could easily be a late summer No.1, especially if we all got behind it. Just the thing in the final run up to the referendum.
Just sayin’
Open letter to JKR, from National Collective
http://nationalcollective.com/2014/06/11/an-open-letter-to-j-k-rowling/
I seriously, couldn’t give a flying bleep about whether J K Rowling donated to the anti independence campaign. Better together have the BBC, the entire UK civil service, the UK press (bar one), Saatchi & Saatchi all fighting their corner, so I hardly think 1 million is important. You shouldn’t believe the rubbish that better together spout about having no money (blub, blub), it’s called spin.
Meanwhile we have a referendum to win, with our positive winning case.
Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war. We are only human and it was inevitable that one of us would throw the bone to the other side, a bone which they were so desperate to savage and savage it they did. Complete over reaction to downright denial were on display last night. Also the calm and efficient telling the true facts, by Stuart – well done sir. No doubt Alec will treat them to more of the same truths today, I wish him well knowing he can handle it.
Even the redoubtable John Beattie sounded genuinely surprised when hearing from a “neutral” that the media was biased towards the Unionist cause as only the Sunday Herald supports independence. Well Stuart you did alright for just an ordinary bloke.
The Italian Job
It will
@Robert Louis
Robert, that is so spot on what you have just written.
We are going to get so many “false” Yes bloggers doing whatever they can to destroy the social media network, for the Yessers, as they have the MSM in their pockets already.
@Robert Louis
Two good posts, I agree totally with all you have said.
Mat
I will treat you and the Itaye to a bottle of Corbieres, but a good one, each.
Disappointing News:
Contacted the wife, nae change, “harry potter oot the windae”.
@Stoops
Yes music is good to get the message enforced. Fully agree. I posted an Irish Independence song (on off-topic) and re-wrote the lyrics, ever so slightly, to give it a Scottish slant and asked Yew-Choob to have a go at it. They are looking at it for me.
FFs the redtops are always putting jakey rowling down lets see it wasent her that wrote Harry Putter it was some yank and jakey stole it, she bought a house and only looked at one room and she owns about 50 squillion houses in Edinburgh, oh and my Fav when she was poor she made Birthday cards and Xmas cards for friends and their children and when she became famouse one of the friends was in fianancial dire so sold jakeys cards and jakey was none too pleased that someone was making off her talent the poems and drawings in the cards, what a friend, someone who has made it and wouldent piss on you if you were on fire, but of course as this was in the redtops you have to take it with a pinch of salt. 😉
Grouse beater
I am not justifying the “Harry Potter Book Burning Festival”. I am only making the point that JK Rowling believes in free speech, so she should have no objection if someone want to have an opinion on her books and it is there right if the want to do what they want with them, is it not.
I am only the messenger, passing on what I have read, that some people want to burn THEIR Harry Potter Books.
Free speech.
Thought for the today,
On Referendum day my vote shall count as much as J K Rowling’s.
I think the points I made above, have just been confirmed.
Put in a call to GMS lets see if they come back to me,
winding the clock back. To Wee to Poor to Stupid / Bayonet
the Wounded / Viruses / Not Geneticaly proggramed to make big
Decissions / No Culture / Cybernats / Nazi’s / F M like Kim
Jung Ill /, ah dont think am gonna get ah call back.
Thanks seanair.
Actually, we canvassed a mix of families and elderly, not many students that we could tell (too expensive an area). Elderly were mostly no, with some notable exceptions. One old gentleman came to the door and after we’d explained who we were exclaimed “I’m against Scotland!” which was an interesting way of putting it. We just smiled and thanked him for his opinion!
The (relatively) younger folk with families were much more interested and the don’t knows we spoke to were definately open minded (and Yes leaning, we concluded). We also got the feeling that the Euro election results were concentrating some minds… All very encouraging anyway.
@Stoops
These days “releases” arent needed as charts are based on downloads, which means a song if available on line, can be high in the charts before any ‘official release’.
Therefore, just need enough folk to download Cap in Hand (and the many various other great tunes) to get them n the Charts.
The only worry is whats that target audience, no more Top of the Pops on TV and how many of Wings listen to The Chart Show or Radio 1, fair few i would suggest much like the Scottish voting population. And sadly the weans arenae gonnae register the records points as lyrics are not as coveted as they should be.
The flash download campaign approach has worked, Rage Against The Machine Xmas campaign etc but that was UK wide and had a classic pantomine baddie in Simon Cowell.
I am trying to reconcile the poor wee lassie I saw on the News last night – on the verge of tears at the horrible people abusing her, hair tied back, no makeup – with the glamorous poised and confident young mum we saw at the BT event. Surely they’re not the same person.
@Desimond
Good point, it was just a thought.
Can I suggest two self denying ordinances today?
Firstly, can all mention of JK Rowling.
Secondly, Clare Lally’s ramp is irrelevant as is anything to do with her personal life.
@GrouseBeater
Just by posting a reference to that idiotic suggestion is a mistake. You have duly presented the Alastair Darling with the ultimate Nazi link up and given NO side all the ammo they need to ramp this up ( Enough current affairs reference – Ed).
Listened to GMS and heard someone from Bella Caledonia (sorry if your reading this , to not have your name), who made an excellent point about the current stuff from the media is detracting from the bigger picture of large scale debate across Scotland.
He managed to put in good plugs for debate events happening in Comrie and elsewhere.
A more interesting point that he made was that no one can control the internet, so allows free and open debate.
It was at this point Louise White started to close him down, as he was highlighting the fact that I’ve made, in that Westminster and the media cannot manipulate the people as much as they did before, because of the internet.
As the guy stated this current spate of abuse or supposed abuse is very very small compared with the large scale of open debate happening. Making it look bigger is the media/Westminster response to scaring the natives away from the internet
A view from an ex-pat Rugby player in the USA in reply to Simon Sharma, will this be classed as abuse?
http://www.scottishglobalforum.net/opinion—speedie-view-from-america.html
Desimond said: Just by posting a reference to that idiotic suggestion is a mistake.
Unlike you who develops the theme?
I condemed it and praised Rowling.
JKR, nice PR.
Ever heard of Pop-Will-Eat-Itself…
Marcia
re by post above – please replace rugby with football. As you can read I don’t know not much about sport.
Well done Stuart, you handled yourself very well under pressure and got all your points across. That couldn’t have been easy.
Finally had enough yesterday and removed my radio, funny not hearing the news for the first time in 20 odd years though.
Why do we not take the heat away from the Union attacks on what they cannot control by listing the worst of the comments of prominent Union Politicians, and leading journalists, even BBC and STV. Then, circulate them across social media.
These people are not cybernats,but can be every bit as bad as what comes from both side of the divide.
The big difference is that these people are Unionist politicians of all parties,Union officials, civil servants, Newspaper Editors etc. These people SHOULD know better, but don’t.
They cannot help themselves and will indulge in name calling and insults to try and protect their Union.
Yet, they blame everything on “Cybernats”, which is blatantly not true. We need to expose their hidden side of nastiness that none report.
Beautiful poster… I’m off to share it and spread the positivity 😀
@arcia
Och, it’s easy. Rugby is the one played by men with oddly shaped balls.
M
@ Marcia
David Speedie sure has got hairy since the Chelsea days.
MajorBloodnok
It is the austerity cutbacks. 🙂
It seems that the increase in the support from women is the cause of the narrowing in the Survation poll. John Curtice has men at 51% and woman at 41% (excluding don’t knows). He ends his commentary with a good cop-out, ‘After all political prediction is a hazardous business!’
G H Graham on “Voters Less Ordinary” hit the nail on the head.
The BBC sponsored attacks on YES voters here and the Home Secretary in England over passports are diversionary tactics.
Iraq is descending into civil war,the Taliban control Afghanistan,Syria and Ukraine are suffering from the wests inaction.
And the beeb go..
“Look!A squirrel”
Now that we are in the official campaign period, more and more people are engaging in the debate. This may explain the rise in women supporting independence. It also is why the MSM are attempting to distract attention from analysis. That is why it is important to encourage everyone you know and meet to involve themselves in checking out solid information and evidence.
One such opportunity is happening in Troon Concert Hall on Wednesday 25 June at 7.00 for 7.30. This is one of the few events where there is an opportunity to hear and question both YES and NO representatives. The venue is large and so we encourage Wingers to make the effort and come along, bringing undecided friends as well. Of course NO supporters are just as welcome, we anticipate a lively debate.
Did not comment on the flutterbyes yesterday but that is one cracking poster.
She who must be obeyed raised an eyebrow this morning at the survation poll. She was a YES but . . now it’s just YES.
What flag are the ‘NO thanks’ going to fly alongside their new message? It’s a gift 🙂
I’ll have a lie down. I don’t think the person who penned the article is a former sportsman. Similar name. Last time I listen to anyone in this household before checking their facts!
It is Iraq that is burning right now so we need to raise our game and point out the very real and very dangerous consequences of continued Westminster warmongering so eagerly espoused by the likes of Brown, Blair, Cameron and their ilk.
How long will we be mired in the next foreign ‘adventure’ when Westminster decides to back it? Ten years? Fifteen? Twenty? How many young scots servicemen and women will lose their lives the next time and how many civilians will die?
Life or death decisions made for us by westminster politicians who we might not even have voted for. Never forget this referendum has consequences that the No campaign will never want to talk about while they distract the public with their smears and lies.
Do you want to live in a country that would blindly follow a U.S. President into invading Iraq or a country that makes it’s own decisions based on humanitarian concerns rather than neo-conservative propaganda?
Remember that choice as Iraq continues to burn and the chaos envelops Afghanistan.
Brilliant poster. Facebook cover now!
The wife’s trying to print off a copy to take to the shop that did my wings t shirt,
This could cost a bob or three methinks.
The more the unionist MSM throw shrill, desperate attacks on Yes supporters the more the underdog-loving Scots will seek out Yes websites.
Iain Gray’s Subway Lament says:
How many young scots servicemen and women will lose their lives the next time…?
I’ll state the obvious … depends how Scots vote on the 18th September!
I completely agree with your post. Trivia like ‘what currency we use’ just isn’t in the same league as ‘who will be killed in our name’ !
O/T, Sort of.
Just uploaded a very short YouTube video on the subject of Better Together lies.
This one on the present claims of Better Together about their, “Very Ordinary”, Shadow Cabinet member.
The one who feels insulted by having someone claim she is related to a former, well respected, Labour Party Glasgow Lord Provost.
You couldn’t make it up. The link is :-
youtu.be/lwuvO-d3oiw
or search under Better Together Lies 4 or under my tag Auld Bob
@Marcia
“Re the Survation poll, it might be near to parity if the DK veer more to Yes than No. We will have to see the data tables and the questions asked”
Another thing to take into account is the number of people who will vote on the day, I think it puts an extra 3-4% on to Yes, as we far more committed to our cause.
I will run through hail or high water to make sure I vote, and I know most Yes people will 🙂
That poster bought a tear to my eye!
What a lovely way to end a pretty crazy day,you have done a great job on the MSM today Stu.makes me proud to be voting YES!
Onward….
MajorBloodknock
Thanks for further details. If you’re encouraged , I’m encouraged!
@Ian Brotherhood 12:10am
Ian
I think I could work in every party which forms part of the YES campaign. Every one of the parties has much in common as regards fairness.
The real shock of this debate has been to see Labour on the “opposite” side. I know people will think this post is a cheap dig but it is just not the case. I remember the great Labour activists I worked with as an apprentice on the West coast (Greenock boy). They would not recognise the Labour Party of today. They lost their soul completely with New Labour.
Post Independence I could be a Green, on the left of the SNP or on the right of the SSP. However I will never return to the Labour Party. I feel for those in Labour for Independence and perhaps a party will evolve that recovers the founding principles.
Labour and the LibDems are part of the establishment now. A vehicle for the professional class to climb the political ladder.
I also hope we see a strong truly Scottish right of centre party because you need balance in debate.
This referendum has given us the chance to review The Common Weal once again. It must be about the people and opportunities on a level playing field.
Iain Grays Subway Lament
“apparently some of Clegg’s loyal spinners are outraged by ‘misogynism’”
Could it be they wish to deflect from the fact that the LibDems only have 12% of their MPs who are female compared to Labour’s 34%, SNP 20% and Tory 16%?
They also have the lowest percentage oof the 4 parties in Holyrood.
So, a YES vote would increase the chances of a Tory majority.
The likelyhood of a Tory majority would increase the chances of a YES vote.
Not sure if I actually have a point to make about this, just saying.
BTW though, didn’t another poll a while back also suggest that a likely Labour win also increased the YES percentage?
“Any particular reason you chose to ignore the biggest indyref story today – J K Rowling’s donation and the subsequent abuse she was subject to?”
Yes. I was out all day at TV studios and didn’t see any of it. You may have noticed that there were no posts at all on Wings yesterday until 7pm.
I’ve just googled ‘Clare Lallys Ramp’ to see what you guys are going on about.
I’m disgusted that she has got that size and type of ramp installed as my family tried to get my dad a wheelchair ramp installed and were told it wasn’t possible as it would take up most of the garden and was outwith the set budget.
We tried our hardest but the answer was still no, we ended up with one of them stair climber wheelchair contraptions with 5 minute’s training on how to use, my dad will not get on it, I don’t blame him it’s a bloody fair ground ride and offers no freedom of movement or quality of life.
This is my ammunition now, is it a post code lottery or is it who you are or know to be able to get these basic items for some sort of independent living
I’ve answered it myself, its who you know and whose back you pat.
@Rev Stu:
We noticed you missing in action, Rev Stu, more power to your elbow, (and other parts). I liked your TV input but missed the Radio Scotland bit. I was making a YouTube video and hit a problem. These things can take a lot of time to sort out. So missed I the radio stuff. I spent hours sorting out a few minutes video.
Clootie this: “This referendum has given us the chance to review The Common Weal once again. It must be about the people and opportunities on a level playing field.”
Absolutely this!
Could someone please inform me what abuse and inappropriate language directed at Ms. Lally is in the Email sent by Mr. Campbell?
Could someone please inform me of the abuse and inappropriate language directed at Ms. Lally in the mail sent by Mr. Campbell to the newspaper? For the life of me I can,t
sorry for the repeat only got use of one hand after a wee op