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Wings Over Scotland


The Great British Elephant

Posted on February 05, 2015 by

One of the most interesting things about the recent Ashcroft polls is the flurry of articles they’ve provoked in the media, as London-based political commentators try to outdo each other in displaying their complete ignorance of Scottish politics.

It’s eerily reminiscent of the sudden surge of activity when the gaps in referendum polls reached margin-of-error levels, and metropolitan journalists suddenly realised that Scotland was taking the referendum far more seriously than they were.

topsy

Two of the most revealing have been in the Spectator, with James Forsyth saying the Unionist collaborations in the No campaign “marked a recognition that Great Britain is far bigger, and far more important, than party politics”, and Fraser Nelson becoming Scottish Labour’s most unlikely cheerleader, saying “Finally, a confession. I’d like the Tories to win the next election, but not as much as I want Jim Murphy to do well”.

But amid all the outpourings of grief and befuddlement, it’s startling how little analysis there really is into why the UK is in the situation it currently is. And it’s odd because the answer isn’t the least bit complicated.

Sure, there’s no shortage of hand-wringing about how Labour has taken Scotland for granted for too long, but no one seems willing to recognise the one basic fact that underpins all the confusion surrounding the May election – the union is broken, and broken on a fundamental level.

Whether it’s Scottish voters demanding more powers for Scotland, or English voters demanding English votes for English laws, it all points to the same thing – the union, as it currently stands, is not fit for purpose. But politicians refuse to acknowledge it so the union staggers on like the T-800 in The Terminator, waiting for someone to thrust a metal pole through it to finish it off – a few powers here, a convoluted way of bypassing Scottish MPs there, and so on.

What the likes of James Forsyth and Fraser Nelson are saying is that keeping the various nations of the UK constrained in a political union formed 300 years ago for reasons that no longer apply is of the utmost importance. But what they never tell us is WHY. Those of us who chapped doors during the referendum will have had similar experiences, meeting people who could not explain WHY it was so important that Scotland remained in the union, just knowing that it WAS.

The question is essentially this: “What is it you want from this union, and are you prepared to accommodate what everyone else wants as well in order to keep the union going?” (Okay, arguably that’s two questions.)

Perhaps you’re a Scot who voted No last year because you (wrongly) think Scotland depends on subsidies from England, and you want that to continue. Well that’s great, but what if people in England want Scotland’s budget to be cut?

What if you want Scotland to have more powers, but people in England want Scotland to have less? Perhaps you’re English and you want Britain to continue laughably pretending it’s still a global power. Well, fine, but what if Scotland is fed up being a dumping ground for the UK’s nukes? What if you want Scottish MPs to be silenced in Westminster, but Scotland wants to start sending 40-odd SNP MPs to force the Westminster government to start actually taking notice of what Scots want for once?

Anyone with an IQ higher than a Lanarkshire Labour councillor can see that what the constituent parts of the UK want from the union are not just different, but mutually incompatible. The union cannot possibly accommodate everyone, which is why it has always settled for accommodating the largest part.

Some suggest federalism as the solution – giving Scots the control over their finances they desire, and ending the uneven devolution that rankles people in England – but the reality is this would simply expose the myths of the union even more, showing people on both sides of the border that Scotland doesn’t rely on subsidies after all, and making it plain to people outside London how centralised the UK is.

More importantly to politicians, it would make it impossible to keep concentrating all the power in London, and the UK could no longer be run for the sole benefit of the City. The lucrative post-Westminster directorships, consultancies and lobbying positions would dry up, and that would never do. Federalism will never happen.

(Especially as the one party that claims to believe in it abandoned it at the first sight of a ministerial car, and is about to be consigned to the dustbin of history.)

Scots have been left with one option: to start electing MPs who answer only to Scotland, because nobody will take any notice of us unless we shout very loudly. We’re not sure why everyone’s so surprised, except perhaps that it’s taken so long.

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  1. 05 02 15 19:42

    The Great British Elephant - Speymouth

  2. 05 02 15 20:34

    The Great British Elephant | Politics Scotland ...

274 to “The Great British Elephant”

  1. Craig says:

    Indeed Rev,

    Who would have thought that the NO victory would cause such wailing and gnashing of teeth at Westminster, thankfully the majority of people of Scotland aside from the 45% have started to wake up and realise that Westminster isn’t in their best interests after all hence the huge voting intentions for the SNP.

    I never thought I would have such fun with politics since the 19th September 2014.

  2. John grant says:

    Nail head hit , vote SNP and watch the Sparks fly could we really remove the dead hand of labour once and for all

  3. Even for the constitutionally uninterested, coupled with the excellent observations above is the fact that, of the major parties in Scotland, only the SNP actually stands for anything. Cut through the BS and platitudes and I’d defy anyone to slip a fag paper between Labour and the Tories in policy terms.

  4. Macart says:

    In a nutshell, why yes. 🙂

    If the result goes the way many of us hope in May, then there will be no hiding place. All of the above issues will form a herd of elephants on a stampede.

  5. manandboy says:

    Someday, Stu, you must come home.

  6. handclapping says:

    Well that’s a piece that set me thinking.

    An IQ higher than a Lanarkshire Labour councillor?
    A monkey with a red rosette? Definite
    A mouse? Squeaks through
    A goldfish? Even it can remember a brown envelope for 10 seconds
    Major Bloodnock, help with the lesser animals please!

  7. Doug Daniel says:

    I was sure you’d use a picture of the T-800 getting impaled as the picture…

  8. Murray McCallum says:

    A great read Doug.

    A UK Federal structure would arguably result in the fragmentation of England as the 54 million population would increasingly desire greater direct representation for their “region” and a say over Federal policies.

    Each English “region” would increasingly begin to wonder why they tolerated past neglect. They would realise that their larger regional bodies carried more clout within England.

  9. Morag says:

    That is an absolute cracker of an article, Doug. Gets right to the heart of it.

  10. Croompenstein says:

    FFS Doug

    Topsy was fed poison, electrocuted, and strangled, with the electrocution part ultimately killing her

    Poor f*in Topsy I am in tears here 🙁

    We could maybe substitute the word Topsy for The Union and that puts a smile back on my face 🙂

  11. handclapping says:

    @Doug Daniel

    He has vision(s) we can only gasp at. That’s why we Revere him. 😀

  12. jimnarlene says:

    I’ve never been a fan of the union, always thought we could stand on our own two feet. During the referendum and the run up to it, I genuinely tried to think of a good reason to stick with it (the union) and for the life of me, I couldn’t think of one.

  13. Taranaich says:

    Oh God, you HAD to use a picture of poor Topsy. Well, at least it wasn’t Mary…

  14. BrianW says:

    @ Craig 6:18pm.. It wasn’t rev, it was Doug Daniel.

    Have to agree with the above though. No one has a good reason for the Union to continue the way it is. I’m sure this was raised during the referendum, but no one, absolutely no one had anything concrete to offer.

    *whispers*..cause we want your natural resources and whisky..

    Sorry, what was that??

    Eh.. oh nothing.. (looks are feet..shuffling the dirt)..just saying how we’re all wonderful together.. you know pooling and sharing..fiscal strength and broad shoulders..Oh look a lovely Better Together Wall… how provincial.. Rory, how are you old chum..

    All they had was fear. I can’t think of one positive, pragmatic reason given in the media that wasn’t a scare story. Nothing backed up with a shred of evidence.

    At least on here you’re provided with links to information/stats/facts/references that you can read yourself and then make up your own mind. And you know what, you can even disagree with that – but you better have your facts at hand.

    N.B – I implore everyone to watch the Family Guy Episode where Lois wants to get elected Mayor.. 9/11.. in the end that all she has to say.. Just watch it)

  15. Dr Ew says:

    The thrust of this is very similar to a fascinating debate that emerged in a meeting I chaired early on in the referendum campaign. I only wish I’d had that line about “an IQ higher than a Lanarkshire Labour councillor” to hand!

    Ordinary folk discussing these kind of ideas scares the shit out of all the Labour heid-the-ba’s, as the Scottish electorate has found as they ask more and more questions the tribunes of the People’s Party.

    On the occasion mentioned above there were in fact two of the species and a little mob of their suporters in the room, all doing their best to hijack discussion away from all this “high-falutin’ constitution stuff an back tae joabs” – and that’s a direct quote from one of the knuckle-draggers. Fortunately there were enough non-aligned, non-partisan folk there, including one older gent who eventually tired of their catcalling and stood up to say: “I’m not SNP or any other party, and I haven’t even decided how I’ll vote but this stuff matters and I want to hear it – so stop trying to shout folk down!”

    I don’t know how that guy voted last year, but if he kept on listening I’d place a bet on how he’ll be voting come May.

  16. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Excellent piece Doug.

    The fact is the 3OO year Union is contrary to modern democracy. Considering such a democracy only developed after the WW2 , it’s no coincidence that Scotland’s Independent movement really started in earnest from that time.

  17. mumsyhugs says:

    Thank you Doug – simple and to the point – wish it could be printed and out to every household in the WHOLE country. I’m sure it would ring true in every part of this broke “union”.

  18. M4rkyboy says:

    Nice piece Doug.
    I put it down to head-in-the-sand dismissiveness.

  19. halftracknat says:

    Very well said – thank you!

  20. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Nice one DD.

    As has become traditional, whenever Doug Daniel has a post published, we play this by way of celebration.

    Bottoms up!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRklsYZaxeQ

  21. John H. says:

    Sorry to be o/t so soon but I’ve just had a tv licencing guy at my door five minutes ago. He wasn’t too happy when I refused him entry.

    According to him the removal of implied right of access applies only in England. Was he bluffing?

  22. Effijy says:

    The Union isn’t broken for the chosen few who have become richer in each of the past 40 years.

    The gap between rich and poor has widened each and every year since 1975.

    Thatcher and Ronald Reagan set out to attack the share of wealth
    going to the working classes, and they just can’t stop filling their pockets.

    If they see a Food Bank, they see money in there that they think they should have.
    It is only men women and children in need as opposed to their 12th Sports car.

    No measure is too great to keep the gravy train from Scotland running down to Westminster.

  23. manandboy says:

    The Myths of the Union

    Like a woman trapped
    in a loveless marriage
    never treated as truly equal
    but subtly exploited
    denied in hidden ways
    with dignity slowly ebbing
    through years of obedience
    oft painfully given,
    rarely freely.

    She’s fine, he says
    in reply to kind enquiry
    aye, awfy fine.

    The dream long gone
    the spirit burdened
    the wish to be gone
    to be free –
    but no path to see.

    But what is this
    a chance not there before
    an opening
    Yes, I’ll take it
    and shake off this loveless burden
    It’s over
    I’ve got to go.

    I’m away.
    I’m leaving this UK.

  24. Kenlike says:

    @handclappiing

    Labour councillors aren’t selected on the basis of intelligence. More important is devotion and obedience like a good Labrador.

  25. Daniel: “Scots have been left with one option: to start electing MPs who answer only to Scotland…”
    .
    This ^

  26. r esquierdo says:

    The electorate are sick to the teeth of British politics in
    its archiac form but those who run the British establishment-the Bilderbergs pulling the strings of the bankers and the City who turn control the strings of the politicians know full well that the only way to keep control is to keep the same old system in place. This in MHO could leadbe the last GE in the U.K. as the electorate are about to have a political revolution that will shake the Establishment to the core

  27. Andrew Walker says:

    Just been reading a Telegraph article discussing the Unionists best way of countering the Nationalist threat.

    They seem to be promoting ‘getting Scottish Labour back on it’ s feet’ and encouraging Tory voters in Scotland to vote Labour.

    Expect the state broadcaster to up the barefaced lying soon on top of giving Murphy and Broon a platform.

  28. galamcennalath says:

    Excellent piece!

    … keeping the various nations of the UK constrained in a political union formed 300 years ago for reasons that no longer apply is of the utmost importance. But what they never tell us is WHY

    That sums up the BetterTogether sales pitch for the Union throughout the entire referendum campaign.

    Only three very weak arguments were put forward, which are easily dispelled.

    i) nostalgia – for some mythical long lost greatness

    ii) bigger is better on the world stage – if you want to throw your weight around.

    iii) sharing is good – Scotland gives, London takes.

    What does that leave. Buggered if I can see any reasons to maintain something which basically needs to be put out of its misery!

    … what the constituent parts of the UK want from the union are … mutually incompatible …

    Spot on!

    And, that is making Labour’s job very difficult. Offer Scotland some of the things we desire, and Middle England erupts. Ignore Scottish aspirations and risk being annihilated in Scotland.

  29. Yesitis says:

    Nail on the head stuff, Doug.

  30. ronnie anderson says:

    beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2014/01/double-your-dole-eurocrats-tell-uk-ministers-told-current-handouts-are-manifestly-inadequate-

    last try to post https removed , let me know if it works.

  31. msean says:

    Great points made,what some want from the union are directly opposed. Meanwhile,they say stay with the uk,we love you Scotland,then don’t want you to take part in a uk government. I wish they would make up their minds. Maybe Scotland should just say “we’re off,see you later ruk”.

  32. Rob James says:

    Your point regarding the lack of analysis is spot on. Are they all spoon fed by their imperial masters? The art of political investigative journalism has either been lost or is being suppressed. They continually pander to the ‘Scottish subsidy junkies’ theory without ever asking the question why their masters are so desperate to hold onto us.

  33. As the GE gets closer, if the polls remain the same, the louder the cries for a Red & Blue Tory coalition will be heard. I can see a joint Telegraph/Guardian plea for a national government of unity to save the precious Union. It’s becoming my recurring nightmare.

  34. Zen Broon says:

    The real mystery of the referendum was not that the nawbags won, given their massive asvantage in media and sleaze capital firepower. The mystery is why they were unable to put across a compelling vision of Britishness. The Brits just came across as boorish, bullying and deeply bigoted against Scotland. Since the referendum their quasi-colonial attitudes have, if anying, hardened.

  35. john king says:

    Handclapping says
    “Major Bloodnock, help with the lesser animals please!”
    What?
    the less(er) spotted SLABBER you mean?

  36. Dr Jim says:

    @John H
    No warrant no entry, and still must be accompanied by a cop
    Also, if he turned up on his own, you don’t know about it, witness?
    These guys are real bluffing bumblers, pay no attention, just don’t talk and close the door gently
    (disclaimer) i’m not a lawyer but that seems to be the perceived wisdom
    hope this helps…

  37. Dan Huil says:

    @John H. Well, if he is correct, which I doubt, he would have gone straight to the nearest police station and then returned with an officer to gain entry.

    “Enquiry officers do not have any legal powers to enter your home without a search warrant granted by a magistrate (or sheriff in Scotland).” OfficialTVLicensing website.

  38. Tam Jardine says:

    Thanks Doug – great article.

    The situation is, if anything accelerating towards a conclusion. The constant anti -Scottish propaganda down south is leaving English people resentful of Scotland trying to have more control whilst folk up here are desperate to take control and decide everything (or almost everything in some cases) ourselves.

    The indyref was a chance for a fresh start which wasn’t taken and now this loveless marriage between resentful partners is just dragging on. At some point enough folk will just agree enough is enough but I can’t see it being a velvet divorce. And as for federalism – I know from experience that after a relationship breakdown living in the same flat doesn’t really work.

    It’s never going to be easy but for God’s sake let’s get it over with. What did the keeper say in Escape to Victory? ‘Make it a clean break, gov’

  39. Paula Rose says:

    Thank you – spot on.

  40. @ronnie anderson

    Keep getting “That page doesn’t exist yet.”

  41. galamcennalath says:

    Andrew Walker says:
    “Just been reading a Telegraph article discussing the Unionists best way of countering the Nationalist threat.”

    Usual twisted logic. Their Unionists are the goodies and we Nationalists are clearly the baddies. If they were to sit down and consider that we might be a pro democracy movement threatened by a British Nationalist establishment, it might shine some light on why it’s happening! They just can’t see the situation for what it actually is.

    The establishment, the elites, the vested interests, the privileged, the peers and troughers … even a good dose of ethnic nationalists … that’s NOT US, that’s THEM.

  42. John H. says:

    Thanks Dr. Jim and Dan Huil. I think he was just trying it on myself. Maybe some expert here will enlighten us.

  43. Dr Jim says:

    Quite a few folks worried about the Red Blue coalition thing in order to freeze out our side
    I think we all know what’s likely to happen in that event
    Nudge Nudge Wink Say no more, in case the thick folks are listening
    I meant that coz they don’t read do they? well back two pages of the DR

  44. Lollysmum says:

    Not working ronnie 🙁

  45. caz-m says:

    Brilliant Doug.

    You could add that eejit Torquil Crichton of the “Record” to the list of Westminster Journos who are so out of touch with what is happening in Scotland.

    His ignorance is frightening. He has seamlessly slipped into the English Westminster Village mindset.

    And with a London Labour view of the world, his reports are meaningless and irrelevant in Scotland.

    With clowns like Crichton working for you, it has come as no surprise that the toxic Daily Record is going down the pan.

  46. David says:

    Rob James asks the question why our imperial masters are so desperate to hold onto us, since they consider us to be subsidy junkies.

    Well really old boy, it’s the ‘white man’s burden’, don’tcha know, what what?

    They feel obliged, as our civilized superiors, to keep a paternal eye on us ‘sweaties’. Why, without their worldly knowledge and guidance, what would stop us getting into all sorts of mischief, or frittering away all our bawbees on deuced silly things like healthcare, or bagpipes made of haggis skins?

  47. caz-m says:

    Never worked Ronnie.

  48. john king says:

    jOHNh @ 6.58
    Your comment on implied right of access refers only to his right to knock your door, which (as far as Im aware only apply (due to trespass laws which apply only in England) but his right to come into you home is only granted with the aid of a warrant which requires he be accompanied by policemen. He has no right to enter your home otherwise,

    So he can be as unhappy as he likes.

  49. ronnie anderson says:

    It never ceases to amaze me the quality of the poster/writers on WOS.

    Quality Doug Daniel Quality & you to Stu a load shared is a burden halved & you,ve carried a hell of a load for so long,which is much appreciated by the many of us Wingers.

  50. caz-m says:

    Ronnie,

    If at first you don’t succeed, try, try and try again.

  51. Bob Mack says:

    Surely the 2 million Scots that voted for the Union are going to feel mightily brassed off when that which they voted to preserve in fact no longer exists. They voted forcthe status quo,and not E.V.E.L. Am I making sense there ?

  52. Devorgilla says:

    Great article Doug.

    The Union is an anachronism, the product of an imperial age. The reasons for it then no longer apply now.

    There might still be some mileage in a federal system with a military and defence union, except that I fear that Scotland and England could never come to agree over Trident. The old air launched Polaris system didn’t depend on using Scottish sea lochs. But they are hardly going to go back to that.

    Scotland and England have been drifting apart since the nineteenth century, it’s just that an empire and two world wars masked those differences and acted to pull them together. But freed of both since 1945-47, they continue to drift in their own trajectories.

  53. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Cynical Highlander I was trying to copy it from Scot2.Scot page it the EU on IDSs benifit cuts,& should be read by people, if anybody could copy it to WOS.

  54. Geoff Huijer says:

    Bang on!

    The pathetic wailing down saarf about the SNP potentially holding the balance of power is staggering. We have had, effectively, English rule for decades but as soon as we have a representation that might rock the boat it’s just not on.

    Why won’t we just go back in our box like in days of yore?

  55. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    Agree 100%.

    Trouble is (for varying reasons) too many Scots voters haven’t yet reached the level required to be a Labour councillor in Lanarkshire.

  56. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz m save that comment fur Insy Whinsy Spider I,ve tried 3 times am no a IT wizz lol.

  57. Kevin Weir says:

    like R Anderson says , you all do a great job exposing the lies of the red cons

  58. John H. says:

    John King – 7.52. Thanks John.

  59. ronnie anderson says:

    The post I was trying to copy on here is still up on Scot2.Scot F/B IDS photo.

  60. frogesque says:

    John H. says:
    5 February, 2015 at 7:40 pm
    Thanks Dr. Jim and Dan Huil. I think he was just trying it on myself. Maybe some expert here will enlighten us.

    Last time they paid me a visit (and I don’t have a TV) I told them they were welcome to come in. As they were about to step over the threshold I then said ‘of course you do have a warrant don’t you?’ mumbble mumble shuffle. ‘Sorry then, no warrant no entry and you will have the police with you as well when you next call won’t you?’

    They then buggered off and all I get now are the snotty letters. The bit is I have tried to co-operate in the past, given them entry, computer examined etc. but still I got the threatening letters of prosecution.

    You are innocent until proven guilty. You do not have to pay this voluntary tax if you have no TV or kit able to show live TV.

  61. Capella says:

    Spot on article Doug. I would argue the purpose of the Union is the same as it always was i.e. to secure the wealth and power of the top 1%. Robert Peffers will be able to supply the historical details.
    For example, Stefano Pessina, boss of Boots, criticised Ed Miliband’s tax plans as “unworkable”. He has a net personal fortune estimated at 7.6 billion pounds. That is seven thousand million pounds.
    He is a tax exile, living in Monaco.
    http://www.forbes.com/profile/stefano-pessina/#

    Labour, as Peter Mandelson pointed out, is “intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich “. There is no prospect of Labour doing anything about ensuring a fair and equal society.

  62. Westie7 says:

    Sorry for drifting OT but I found this article Fascinating.
    Reading up on Yanis Varoufakis http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-31111905
    His thoughts on the BBC
    “As a fan of the BBC, I must say I was appalled by the depths of inaccuracy in the reporting underpinning this interview (not to mention the presenter’s considerable rudeness). Still, and despite the cold wind on that balcony, it was fun!”

  63. ronnie anderson says:

    @ John H as somwhat of a expert in this field (18)letters & several demand dates + ones handed directly in at Pacific Quad (caz ms ) ma witness,you dont have to let them in ( nor let them look through your window ) dont even reply or acknowledge them when they ask you to confirm your name , give them no information whatsoever

    Mind write to TV licencing & demand a REFUND of LICENCE FEE everybody pays 6 months in advance.

  64. Tamson says:

    @Sinclair MacLeod:

    I’ve suspected a National Government was on the cards from the moment the first poll showing a big SNP lead appeared.

    It’s worth noting that most attacks between Labour and the Tories just now are focusing on the ‘horrible” coalition options with smaller parties they might come up with.

    Until an MSM journalist asks Miliband, Balls, Cameron or Osborne about it and they clearly rule it out, I think it will happen.

  65. Iain Carr says:

    Here’s Ronnie’s link:

    http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2014/01/double-your-dole-eurocrats-tell-uk-ministers-told-current-handouts-are-manifestly-inadequate-2459104.html

    (I may also have submitted it to the wrong page. Apologies – first-time poster.)

  66. X_Sticks says:

    @Ronnie

    looked for your article Ronnie, but need some more info can’t find anything on IDS and EU.

  67. Onwards says:

    I reckon federalism will happen at some point, in an attempt to settle the constitutional question.

    But Scots need to give themselves influence, and break away from the Labour v Tory trap.

    This whole campaign needs a simple clear message about making Scotland’s voice heard.

    To give Scotland the electoral power to gain more political powers.

  68. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Doug Daniel any spare black paint ah need tae widen the crack of the Onion Flag on ma wee shed lol.1st dood day job done.

  69. Chitterinlicht says:

    Great summary.

    The union is dead. You could argue it never really existed in the way that many British nationalists like to think. (And in the same way that Scottish history is not what many Scotnats think – mostly freezing, muddy and mostly not the Highlands/clans)

    It has always been about power and power residing in the few, but manipulating the many.

    Most of our anscestors (across Uk) were treated like shite.

    After WW2 was probably the closest to ‘Great Britain’ actually existing. National industries, common cause and endevour linked with economic aspiration.

    Then Thatcher sold all the industries and all those public assets passed into a few private hands. (And all that went with that experiment. )n

    Blair and Brown sucked it all up and made a complete mess of the ‘economy’ as well as engaging in illegal ego stroking wars ( murderers)

    Yet the rich have got richer in these austerity years.

    Is it any wonder people want change?

    I certainly do and the best way I can see that happening is to vote SNP.

    Vote for the future.
    Vote for change
    Vote for responsibility
    Vote for aspiration
    Vote SNP coz it’s about all we can do.

    (Sorry for rant)

  70. velofello says:

    Great article DD.

  71. indyme says:

    “Vote SNP get Tory!”

    92% of the electorate live outside Scotland. So how can voting SNP get a Tory government. Honestly!

    ————————————————————-

    Why do all the BBC in Scotland’s ‘experts’ come from England?

    ————————————————————–

    “I’ve heard that George Osborne has a wee arsehole.”
    “Really?”
    “Yeah, his name’s Danny Alexander.”

  72. TYRAN says:

    OT: Anyone get a “red V” logo icon in their browser Chrome tab for WOS?

  73. Natasha says:

    TYRAN
    Yes, but it’s not Chrome, it’s just Google. Why do you ask?

  74. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Iain Carr 8.38. thanks Iain thats the story I was trying to post,if it helps just one person its on appeals its well worth it.

  75. call me dave says:

    Mr Bateman on Newsnet looking at the labour party corpse.

    Ronnie ‘Paint it Black’ and very wide. 🙂

  76. K1 says:

    Here’s Ronnie’s article that he was trying to post…again, for those that haven’t looked back on the thread where other posters also found it. Shower of bastards Ronnie, you can see why they want out of the human rights charter from the point of view that they can continue to crush the poorest amongst us…the tories are up in arms about this…as you’d expect.

    http://beforeitsnews.com/conspiracy-theories/2014/01/double-your-dole-eurocrats-tell-uk-ministers-told-current-handouts-are-manifestly-inadequate-2459104.html

  77. Marcia says:

    Bill Jamieson of the Scotsman thinks the richest Scots are now backing the SNP. If that is the case then the NO voting area will be backing the SNP too?

    https://archive.today/pF343

  78. kininvie says:

    There is a clear reason for keeping the union, and it is this: The UK is broke, buggered, sold off and up to its eyes in debt.

    But so long as it can promote itself as one of the oldest most stable democracies in the world blah blah, people seem to be prepared to go on lending it money. A Scottish break away would immediately shatter that comfortable illusion, and so it simply cannot be afforded.

    But of course this is the one reason that none of the BT mob dared utter in public. That’s why we had all the guff about WWII and how great we were.

    That’s also why they will keep on desperately trying to patch it up until the whole thing falls apart (which may not be pretty).

  79. Mealer says:

    Good piece Doug.Its all so obvious once you “get it”.And if you are an ex Labour voter who read the Record,listened to Better Together and watched the BBC….yet still went out and voted YES to independence…why would you vote for a unionist party in May? Why would you vote for a right wing unionist party led by Really Creepy People who want to squander billions on nukes instead of investing it in our children’s future?

  80. crisiscult says:

    thanks for this article Doug. I found anything in the referendum related to identity kind of fun, and perplexing at the same time, attempting to derive some kind of universal truth or observation from what was going on, rather than accept the simplistic idea that somehow ‘these islands’ are unique. Was it, as ‘unionists’ insisted, petty, insular, and ‘nationalistic’ to want to ‘separate’ from … from others? Was 300 years of history being ignored in some kind of tribal reversion to a primal state?

    I had a book on Ukraine, and it occasionally made comparisons, though more often contrasts, on Ukraine’s relationship with Russia/the Empire to Scotland’s relationship with England/the Empire. The writer, Andrew Wilson, has a predictable Brit bias but try reading this (as just one of many examples) of parallels that the writer himself isn’t actually trying to make:

    “Although a genuine Ukrianian-Russian synthesis had at times seemed possible in the 18th century, the terms of engagement were radically changed around the middle of the 19th century, becoming much more unilateral. Thereafter, Ukrainians were faced with an increasingly direct choice between assimilation and resistance, and the possibilities for mutual influence began to fade dramatically’.

    The dates can be changed, but how alien is this text? Interestingly, the section goes on to make the point of how vital ukrainian territory was to Russia’s sense of its self and its own greatness, with no particular attention to the people there other than they were somehow part of its own people, though maybe of a country bumpkin colour.

  81. Gods Country says:

    O/T but was looking forward to watching FM QT on Scottish Parliament TV now the geets are bedded but not on their website yet. Normally can view late afternoon – any ideas. Ta.

  82. Davy says:

    A very good article Doug,

    The Ashcroft polls appear to have produced two main reactions fa oor MSM, one they gnash their teeth and scream Scotland is picking on them, or two they stick their head in the sand and mumble ‘wibble’, therefore denieing anything is changing.

    And the main problem for Westminster is the utter disbelieve that they won the referendum battle, but are losing the war. The very idea that Scotland is refusing to lay down and take its place back at the foot of the table is just killing the Westminster politicians.

    Westminster does not have the guts or balls to admit that their present govermental system is so far out of date with the rest of the UK they are more akin with a ‘knight on horseback’ versus a modern day ‘battle tank’.

    On May the 7th, Scotland, Wales, Northen Ireland and England have an opportunity to change Westminster politcs forever and start the journey of returning politcal power to the people of these nations, therefore begining a friendship among equals. And revoke the unfairness of Westminster having first, second and final say, regardless of a nation and its citizens desire.

    So for me it’s Vote Scotland, Vote SNP.

  83. chris kilby says:

    The United Kingdom, I think, is like a shark. It has to constantly move forward or it dies. And I think what we got on our hands… is a dead shark.

  84. Cyber McGnatzi says:

    Maybe they should “accept and honour the result of the referendum, and move on”? :p

    The result being – you successfully kept us stupid Jocks captive…did you think ahead to what you actually want to do with us?

  85. crisiscult says:

    @Chitterinlicht that’s what I’d have written if I had the nous! Point very succinctly made.

  86. John H. says:

    Thanks to everybody who answered me.

  87. KenC says:

    Cheers rev. I’ve been saying exactly the same thing to family and friends for years. Yet they continued to vote Labour and got bugger all in return. It is, and has been for years, teeth grindingly obvious that we need change, and we are the only ones who can bring that change about.

    You wondered after the referendum, if my memory is correct, whether you should continue. The last months have made the answer obvious.

    Sterling work sir. Please keep it up.

  88. No no no...Yes says:

    Doug, a great read as always. This is a thought provoking article for NO voters. WE have to provide the light at the end of the tunnel, others will follow with reasoned argument. That’s what the MSM and establishment are really scared about.

  89. YESGUY says:

    Brilliant Doug.

    that@s right up there with “Tough love ” from Derek Bateman.

    GGGrrrr – watch their faces when the SNP landslide hits WM.

    Almost as good as winning the ref. ALMOST !! 🙂

    They really don’t have a clue whats going on here.

  90. ronnie anderson says:

    Euorpean Social Charter. Thanks guys for posting that up, people sanctioned should arm themselves with copies of ESC & appeal post haste via Solicitors/Cab ect, share that information people.

    Give those Bastards in London a massive headache.

  91. Krackerman says:

    I see Maggie Curran had the old nose bag on at a doo for arms dealers in London..

    Listed as a guest of Raytheon – purveyors of death to you and me…

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vince-cable-one-of-40-mps-on-guest-list-for-arms-dealers-dinner-in-london-10026302.html

  92. Croompenstein says:

    @Gods Country – was looking forward to watching FM QT on Scottish Parliament TV

    Same here Gods Country I usually watch it at 8 every Thursday but the past few weeks it’s been later or not on at all till Friday. Not sure what’s changed.

  93. Capella says:

    @ crisicult
    Russia was originally Kievan Rus. The capital later moved to Moscow.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus%27
    So it is quite understandable that Russians still regard Ukraine as historically Russian. Most of their history and literature includes it as part of the country. I think it was Kruschev in the 1950’s who granted it some independence but then he was himself a Ukrainian.
    As always, it is much more complicated than Western journalists portray!

    @ Marcia
    Great link to Bill Jamieson article in the Scotsman:

    “Can it really be that Nicola Sturgeon’s pledges on welfare spending, Trident abolition and her rhetoric on income inequality have won over the fretting, fur-lined clientele of Brewin Dolphin and Baillie Gifford?”

  94. bowanarrow says:

    maybe they are going to just buy the vote,

    “ministers-told-current-handouts-are-manifestly-inadequat”

  95. ronnie anderson says:

    The way things are shapeing up in the Ukraine Scotland could become the Chagos Carcia of the North Atlantic,never underestimate Westminster.

  96. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Nice one Doug.

    You sum up the fractured state of our di-united kingdom in a few concise paragraphs.

  97. Inbhir Anainn says:

    @John H.

    Avail yourself of the following free publication TV Licensing Laid Bare at the following website.

    http://tv-licensing.blogspot.co.uk/p/free-book.html

  98. Graeme Doig says:

    Sums things up well Doug. There was only ever one answer.

    Ronnie

    “… save that comment fur Insy Whinsy Spider I,ve tried 3 times am no a IT wizz lol. ”

    I’m still chucklin to masel

  99. Capella says:

    @ crisiscult again
    Here’s a handy timelapse video of the changing borders of Europe
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1sjHGODFHg

  100. muttley79 says:

    For anyone who is feeling over confident in regards to the general election, I doubt you will too awestruck by the amount the SNP are probably going to spend on their campaign. Prepare to feel distinctly underwhelmed, particularly in the light of the now 100,000 members. I just hope they are planning to increase it….

  101. FactChecker says:

    @ronnie anderson

    I scanned through that linked article. The jist may well be right, but given where it’s posted, etc. doesn’t exactly lend it much weight to the story in my mind. It also has a couple of errors, no proper link back to the Daily Hate article and the Rt Hon MP for Clacton is referred to as a Conservative, which I’m sure he isn’t (any more). He’s quite definitely a UKIPper.

  102. crisiscult says:

    @capella

    Yes, which reminds me of a funny series of experiences on the way to Russia in September. Basically several Russian people, independent of each other, all of a 55+ age group, when finding out my wife was Ukrainian, wanted to talk about the situation there and all had pretty much the same view. Ukraine wasn’t a country, Ukrainian wasn’t a proper language, and so what were they up to in Ukraine trying to BE something OTHER.

  103. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Damn…too much sherry

    “dis-united”

  104. Lesley-Anne says:

    Hmm …

    Last September THEY won and THEY told us to climb back inside our wee boxes. Somehow THAT message was not passed over to all of the 1.6 Million YES voters after September 18th. 😉

    Now we are coming up on a General Election and THEY are panicing … AGAIN! THEY just do not seem capable of understanding the current level of Phsyche within Scotland concerning politics and politicians.

    There were a significant number of Scots who voted NO in September who wanted to believe the YES arguments but just lacked that final oompf of belief. Everything that has happened since Spetember has been a fantastic godsend to those supporters of independence because the “waiverers” on the NO side are now openly moving across to YES and there is not a herd of horses around that will be able to pull them back to NO.

    I know this may sound crazy, well I am the village idiot, but now 4 months on I’m actually glad we lost in Septemeber because now we are actually in a stronger position NOW than we wever were back then. More over, if THIS is how the WINNERS are behaving AFTER winning how on earth do you think they would be behaving if WE had won?

    Next time we vote on independence, and rest assured we WILL be voting again, and I am certain within 10 years if things keep going the way they currently are, the result will be nothing like September … WE will WIN and WE will WIN BIG! The unionists blew ALL their *ahem* secret weapons to win in September and now their LIES are laid bare for all to see. Next time they will not be able to lie their way to victory so easily and the electorate WILL be questioning the unionists face to face even if the BBC and media remain tied to unionism!

  105. Fred says:

    Magrit’s gettin her heid right doon in the trough, she’ll be kickin & screamin in May when they drag her oot by the heels.

  106. Marie clark says:

    Well done Doug, great article. Thank you. I’m like you, still waiting for some proudscotbut to tell me why.

  107. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    crisiscult…

    AH! “OTHERS”.
    I linked to this in ‘off-topic’, a day or three ago.
    Check out the mention of “OTHERS” at 6 mins 43secs…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjWw5dJNRQY

  108. Thepnr says:

    Posted by Nana Smith on an earlier thread but probably not seen by too many people. I think it should be seen by more.

    There are very brave people who will speak up for what they believe in. The video is from the now infamous Arms Dealers dinner. Good find Nana.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF92Kxlj4BA

  109. heedtracker says:

    Fraser Nelson becoming Scottish Labour’s most unlikely cheerleader, saying “Finally, a confession. I’d like the Tories to win the next election, but not as much as I want Jim Murphy to do well”.

    Sums up the red and blue tory boys quite well really. So we’ll have even more of this style of hard core tory boy’s dolcet tones oiling and oozing out of the radio going “vote Labour and Murphy’s our man now.” Lab and Britnat CiFers also seem to be even more vote NO vote Slab hysterical now than they were before 18th Sept…

    eg https://archive.today/9SX1j

    This is definitely NOT Jim Murphy but red hot with Slab rage.

    Whatever will red and blue tory boys do next.

  110. crisiscult says:

    @capella Thanks. nice video. The Germans have done an interesting job of state building in a short space of time!

  111. Croompenstein says:

    But we would hate to see you lose Scotland 🙂

  112. John H. says:

    Inbhir Anainn – 10.16

    Thanks Inbhir. That was very informative.

  113. sinky says:

    Yet another crisis facing Scots govt according to Sarah Smith? How many is that this week?

  114. crisiscult says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon nice one. I didn’t know Absolutely was on youtube. Thanks

  115. ronnie anderson says:

    @ No No No Yes. Nick Clegg used that phrase ( light at the end of the Tunnel ) & he,s on the Line, I,ve seen 1st hand the damage a Intercity Express can do to the human body & its no pretty.

  116. Graeme Doig says:

    O/T

    Some constructive criticism of our Mags. Enjoy.

    https://www.facebook.com/MargaretCurranForGlasgowEast/posts/1539944299591444

  117. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    Thanks Doug – for a young man of a reduced stature your pencil is a mighty tool. 🙂 Great writing and more power to your future in the political arena, if you should choose.

  118. Nana Smith says:

    Tweeted by snp candidate Paul Monaghan a few minutes ago.

    Sources have disclosed that work has now begun on the practicalities of shifting #Trident to Pembrokeshire”

    Could this be labours next move?

  119. bookie from hell says:

    If you think project fear was bad,labour an MSM going all out to trash SNP

    it’s a Twitter F***kfest tonight

  120. Tam Jardine says:

    Tristan Hunt, labour shadow cabinet on Question Time: “If you don’t have a vote in the upcoming election…. you should not be lecturing British people about how they should vote, nor should you be lecturing British businesses about British business needs…”

    To applause. No further comment necessary.

  121. Big Jock says:

    Sinky not only that. They did a piece on Eire.Talking about austerity and financial collapse. Then they get plastic paddy Hennessey in Edinburgh to talk down his own nation! BBC trying to get the message out the Eire and small nations are a disaster again. What the ferk does Eire have to do with a Scottish politics programme in the context of the GE. The guy Hennessey has been used before by the BBC to slag off Eire! One of his lines being:” If you think this is austerity in the UK you ain’t seen nothing”. When was the last time the guy lived in Eire. He is probably the equivalent of our George Foulkes!

  122. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sounds like certain individuals in the Rainbow Tory party are feeling a wee bit of heat in the kitcken there Nana. Oh wait there’s a cure for that … if you can’t stand the heat in the kitchen then get out. Maybe they will just wait till May and we can all give them a wee helping hand. 😀

  123. Bill Jamieson’s article in the Scotsman asks,

    “Can it really be that Nicola Sturgeon’s pledges on welfare spending, Trident abolition and her rhetoric on income inequality have won over the fretting, fur-lined clientele of Brewin Dolphin and Baillie Gifford?”

    Perhaps Nicola has also tapped into many ABC1 women who have been banging their heads on the glass ceiling, frustrated at being unable to use their abilities to the full. And now a woman FM, with a 50/50 gender split cabinet, is making clear that there must be no constraints to what women can achieve in politics, business or anywhere else. Women make up 52% of the population, and fewer appeared to support the SNP. This seems to have changed.

    Good, therefore, to see so many capable women being selected to fight constituencies.

  124. Big Jock says:

    Stage 2 has begun folks. Dirty tricks from here on in. They did the same in the referendum. Will they ever learn.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/video-watch-snp-candidate-mhairi-5113388

  125. gordoz says:

    Typical – David Clegg and Daily Redcard website now firing the ‘bullshit cannons’ at SNP candidate Mhairi Black / usual vitriol and hypocrisy from a cheap shot hack.

    Kept very silent on Ian Davidson’s aggressive antics towards Eilidh Whiteford SNP/MP and the stupid bayonet remarks towards YES campaign.

    Shoddy work from a failing bitter paper.

  126. Flower of Scotland says:

    Good article Doug
    O/t just watching Question Time and it’s like watching Foriegn people talking about a Foriegn Country and Labour,s golden boy Tristam Hunt getting hammered! And George Galloway giving his all!
    Since no one represents any other part of the UK other than England I’m turning over!

  127. heedtracker says:

    It is getting mental as anything out there. Rancid Graun stinks even more now but this kind of grot about Gordon Brown, after his latest ridiculous poncing and posturing and lying live on stage in front of a bizarre UKOK/BBC media audience too.

    https://archive.today/FwIOO

    “He won’t appreciate the comparison, but Gordon Brown may be becoming the Jimmy Carter of British politics”

    Brown and Bliar and Lab brought hell on earth to the Middle East together with a pack of neocon far right maniacs led by George Bush and Dick Cheney. Meanwhile President Carter has almost eradicated guinea worm in developing countries

    http://blogs.wsj.com/metropolis/2015/01/13/qa-former-president-jimmy-carter-on-american-natural-history-museum-exhibit/

    How low will the red and blue tories go.

  128. liz says:

    @Big Jock – if they are trying to discredit Mhairi Black already it’s because they know she is a huge threat.

    She is an inspirational down to earth speaker who tells it like it is and will appeal to ordinary folk

  129. Doug Daniel says:

    What a surprise that Mhairi Black’s comments are not actually as the article suggests at the start. Good to see the Daily Record has learnt nothing though – if SNP candidates are going to be elected by Yes voters, then why do they care what she did or didn’t say about No voters?

  130. Big Jock says:

    I know Liz. They don’t want to talk about Labour. Instead they now need to play the man so to speak. Demonise the individual when you can’t win an argument!

  131. Doug Daniel says:

    Archie [not Erchie] – hey, I know where you live, so less of your cheek!

  132. Lollysmum says:

    I see Douglas Alexander has been twisting the arm of D Clegg to attack Mhairi Black. Scared of a wee girl is he-the little sh*te? Come on SLAB show us what big bullies you are just in case we missed it last time.

    Considering that Better Together & Slab said far worse in indyref campaign makes you wonder just how unfit these people are to tell us they know what’s best for us. They know nothing & confirm it every time they open their mouths to speak.

    Faux outrage really doesn’t suit them. Headless chickens is such an apt description for Labour

  133. karmanaut says:

    @heedtracker

    Sycophantic pish from the Guardian.

  134. Stoker says:

    FMQ
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/scotland-31149747
    _________________________

    Nana,
    Thanks for the link on other thread, re: the warmongers,
    great find and cheers Alex for sticking it on this thread.
    😉

  135. K1 says:

    Thepnr and Nan, further to that video with the activist at the arms trade dinner on the 3rd February. Here’s the list of all attending MP’s, including Magrit Curran, a guest of Raytheon:

    ‘Raytheon Company is a technology and innovation leader specializing in defense, security and civil markets throughout the world.’

    Brian Donohoe was there too…

    http://www.raytheon.com/ourcompany/

    https://www.caat.org.uk/issues/influence/resources/2015-02-03.ads.dinner-parliamentarians.pdf

    I’ve no doubt they’ll justify it as a ‘job creation’ opportunity, thing is these shower of troughers have done little for the people in their constituencies when it comes to half decent jobs and better life chances. But they can attend gigs like this at £250 a head knobbing it wi the worst trade on this planet. Socialists my f***in’ arse.

  136. ronnie anderson says:

    Ah wunner when David Glegg is gonna get roon tae the Rev & get him exiled tae Scotland cmon David get on his case & get him the Elba.

    SoS Stu,thinking of your safety & your windies.

  137. Lollysmum says:

    Wonder if Magrit Curran is regretting that Facebook page yet-there was about 40 comments when I posted earlier. Folks have gone to town since -now 146

  138. Ian Brotherhood says:

    ‘The Great British Elephant’…

    Yeah.

    Elephants? Useful…sometimes.

    Spot the elephant(s) in this snap.

    Imagine having this stuff in your ‘family album’?!

    http://www.helpfreetheearth.com/img/philipTiger2.jpg

  139. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi crisiscult.

    A YouTube uploader called ‘AbsolutelyAndy’ uploaded loads of Absolutely clips. He managed to get a petition together to get it released on DVD. (It had never had an outing on VHS or disc.)

    The box set is now available – I bought it as soon as it was released. Has 8 discs.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Absolutely-Everything-DVD-Peter-Baikie/dp/B0015B04J0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1423181834&sr=8-1&keywords=Absolutely

  140. Joemcg says:

    Curran has actually denied she was at that arms dinner on her Facebook page and yet she is listed at table number 43 at the event! Surely not yet another lie from the specky witch?

  141. heedtracker says:

    karmanaut says:
    5 February, 2015 at 11:53 pm
    @heedtracker

    Sycophantic pish from the Guardian.

    Its got way beyond that though. THE VOW fraud can be looked at any we like now, maybe it changed the referendum result and maybe it did not. Maybe THE VOW fraud was all just tub thumping rhetoric from the creeps at the Record and cunning unchallenged showmen like Gordon Brown but the fact is its all going to be tested in the May general election and what do Britnats do? Pretend it never happened.

    We want devo max and we are going to take it.

  142. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Lollysmum. If you knew Mhairi Black,she might be wee but she,s ah rite wee Tartar if her dander goat up ,wee Dougie would shit himself if Mharie challenged him tae a fight for the constituancy LoL.

  143. Flower of Scotland says:

    @lollysmum
    I too commented on M Curran,s page a couple of hours ago and the other comments were all anti labour too! I thought that she would have taken it down by now. It must be so embarrassing!

  144. crazycat says:

    Re the arms manufacturers and their dinner – I had a look at the CAAT website, and what they have is a list of those who were invited; it isn’t at all clear how many of them actually attended. I’ll try to find out.

    The idea that Margaret Curran “inadvertently accepted” her invitation is preposterous enough; to have “inadvertently” attended as well……..

  145. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @Capella
    liked the time lapse video of the European borders. Thanks – quite a good way to show 1000 years of History.

    So why the concern now about Scottish independence – the borders have always changed over time – even quite a lot in recent living history.

    Hopefully there will be another two or three changes over the next few years.

    @Doug

    Great article – I hope you got an “Alert Writer” badge of Rev Stu for your efforts.

  146. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Just to be clear – this arms-trade banquet was just t’other night?

    Mags Curran AND Brian Dunnohowthehoenoo were both there?

    And there is solid evidence of this?

    (Please forgive me – I’m a bit ‘tired and emotional’ and not quite sure if I’m starting to imagine stuff…)

    We can look forward to hearing their denials.

  147. crazycat says:

    @ Ian and K1

    The list is of those who received invitations. I have written to CAAT to try to find out if they know how many (and which) of them actually turned up.

  148. Thepnr says:

    @crazycat

    What I saw didn’t look like a list of invitees. Not when you allocate them a seat, at table 43 for example.

    If allocated a seat, you surmise that the invite was accepted. No?

  149. K1 says:

    crazycat, gotcha…excellent!

  150. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @crazycat –

    I’ll bet a fiver – right now – that Mags will say she thought she was a guest of Roy Orbison.

    As for Brian Gonnyhuadoanthenoo? Nae excuse will ever do now…’Airbus’?! (AKA ‘wind-bag’, ‘baw-bag’…etc…?) He is the closest thing any of us will ever see to ‘Dark Matter’.

  151. crazycat says:

    @ Thepnr

    That’s what I wanted to confirm with them; the press release says the dinner was attended “by over 40 MPs”, but the list I first saw was presented as a list of invitees.

    Since I am wary of accusing even Margaret Curran of having done something she specifically denies without double-checking, I contacted them. I’m now looking at a list which refers to attendees, including both Curran and Donohoe, so it does seem that she did go, despite her denials and protestations that accepting the invitation was “inadvertent”. I’ve also seen the table allocation you mention, though at this time in the morning I’m not capable of finding it on CAAT’s website – it’s not obvious.

    I can just about see how you could accidentally agree to do something, if you are very busy and someone else arranges your diary, but to then actually go is a different matter altogether. Trying to deny it when there is evidence that you went is mind-boggling. So I wanted to be rigorous, and get explicit confirmation. I don’t actually doubt that she went.

  152. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    I’m speechless 🙂

  153. handclapping says:

    @crazycat
    Isn’t this the sort of thing that has to be disclosed on a MP’s register of interests? If so you had better archive her denials and wait for the detail to appear on her register of interests within the time limit for declaration to be made.

  154. crazycat says:

    @ handclapping

    Yes, I did think of that, but as you say there will be a delay before it has to appear in the record. At this stage, it may not be published till after the election. When I was trying to compile a spreadsheet of MPs’ expenses the information was all quite old.

  155. Joemcg says:

    Must be constant arguments in big mags hoose with her and her hubby if she constantly denies doing anything “Did you fart Maggie?” ” Nut, it was the Dug” ” we dinnae huv a dug” “errrmm it wisnae me!”

  156. Thepnr says:

    @crazycat

    Good for you, being rigorous is what Wings is all about. All is not lost and we can be proud of some things at least.

    Simply trying to get to the truth.

    The efforts by people like you who most likely didn’t care too much before, as I didn’t, is what will make a difference.

    Thanks.

  157. crazycat says:

    @ Thepnr

    I hope can make a difference; as it happens I was brought up in a campaigning household and have been fighting for various causes for more than 50 years, mostly fruitlessly, so it is good to feel that finally, perhaps, something may come of my endeavours!

  158. crazycat says:

    That’ll be “hope I can make a difference” – I did read the preview and I still got it wrong, so it must be past the time I turn into a pumpkin.

  159. Patrician says:

    Very good article Doug, the only nitpick I would have is that the union has never been fit for purpose, especially for Scotland.

  160. Patrician says:

    @ ronnie anderson, have you bought your copy of the ’tiser this week?

  161. bookie from hell says:

    It would be unbeleivable stupid to denie you were at the dinner,when theirs a few 100 people

    Unless a pic comes forward,I beleive that denial

    hope she doesn’t show me up to be stupid,believing her

  162. CameronB Brodie says:

    Heedtracker
    Don’t forget Opperation Cyclone started under Carter, so both he and Brown have sanctioned illegal actions aimed at destabilising south west Asia.

    Sorry fot this shocker, but was Blair simply fulfilling his roll modle’s promise?

    youtube.com/watch?v=bcM38teBfu8&list=PL171A36002E679F59

  163. thoughtsofascot says:

    @Bookie from hell

    Yes conventional wisdom says that, but Curran is one of the dullest tools in the box, and shes from a box with many dull tools. Given that she has a tendancy to vote for things or abstain in westminster and then turn around and tell her constituents that she actually voted against those things, its quite believable that she is thick enough to actually attend and then deny attending.

  164. thoughtsofascot says:

    And I usually think many labour MPs are full of low cunning, but Curran just lacks any of it, though she thinks she is fendisy devious. Shes the Cersei of Scottish politics

  165. thoughtsofascot says:

    *Fiendishly

    Damn phone!

  166. Germane to this discussion: Oinkers at the trough.
    .
    Magrit Curran accepts arms dealer’s sumptuous £246 per plate dinner(1) while in her Glasgow East constituency the poor go hungry. Though CONFIRMED as an attendee on table 43 of the dinner program, Magrit’s reflex response has been:

    “Dinner? What dinner? I don’t know nuttin’ ’bout no stinkin’ dinner”

    Worth noting this is the same Magrit Curran (3) who just the other day, lying through her back teeth, tweeted: “I voted tonight to stop fracking.”

    She was a guest of arms dealer Raytheon, which provided laser-guidance systems for the bombing of Palestine last August, in which 1903 Palestinians were killed, including 450 children.

    Jeremy Vine, BBC Radio 2 host who will anchor the corporation’s election coverage, gives speech at same dinner for “a five-figure fee”.(2)

    Also CONFIRMED on the guestlist for the dinner were Scottish Labour MP Gemma Doyle, Labour MP for West Dunbartonshire, Labour MP Brian Donohoe MP for Ayrshire, and Berwickshire Liberal Democrat MP Michael Moore.

    . . . and I’ll have the succulent lamb. Chablis anyone?
    .
    1. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/vince-cable-one-of-40-mps-on-guest-list-for-arms-dealers-dinner-in-london-10026302.html

    2. https://commonspace.scot/articles/259/margaret-curran-denies-posh-dinner-with-company-linked-to-bombing-of-palestine

    3. http://www.reddit.com/r/Scotland/comments/2ts0g7/margaret_curran_tweet_from_earlier_tonight_i/

  167. Wee Jonny says:

    Rev Stuart Campbell says – “But what they never tell us is WHY.” Er, two world wars AND the British Empire……. Well that’s what eh got telt fay this man as he read the “There is no positive case for the union” sign on my car.

  168. Wee Jonny says:

    shit!!!
    Sorry Doug. I never read that this was your story.

  169. Macart says:

    @ Christian Wright

    Neatly done sir. 🙂

    They do so enjoy that trough and sitting at big tables. Magrit has apparently achieved a life long ambition and managed both in the same evening.

  170. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    @chris kilby says:
    5 February, 2015 at 9:26 pm
    “The United Kingdom, I think, is like a shark. It has to constantly move forward or it dies. And I think what we got on our hands… is a dead shark.”

    Seems more like a dead parrot nailed to the perch, to me, and they are still trying to sell it.

  171. Croompenstein says:

    @Taranaich –
    Oh God, you HAD to use a picture of poor Topsy. Well, at least it wasn’t Mary…

    Jesus Christ I have just read about Mary WTF!!!

  172. Gary says:

    The people with funny accents, the ones who live ‘up there’. The ones on benefits who spend OUR money. They live very far away. Read the comments on a Guido Fawkes Blog post and, once you get past the comments about Muslims, you get the anti-Scotland attitude as above. The London based press is little better (if at all). With Labour concentrating on getting and retaining power by winning over southern voters, they’ve forgotten their heartlands. Because of this they neither represent nor even discuss Scottish issues. Even political editors only report the Westminster Village gossip and truly have no idea of what happens outside their bubble. That and a lack of interest combined with disdain. We are no more entitled than England, Wales or Northern Ireland to have our voice heard. However, we ARE entitled to have our voice heard. I believe that there are TWO distinct types of benefit from having a strong SNP contingent at Westminster. Obviously we have a voice and the ability to raise issues that affect us whilst being able to prevent legislation that is detrimental. In tandem with this it can broaden the appreciation of journalists, politicians and the public for Scottish issues and Scotland’s contribution, overcoming the long held negative stereotypes. But then, I’m an optimist…

  173. Dorothy Devine says:

    I am now thoroughly depressed having just read about Mary.
    I struggled with Glasgow’s very own Sir Roger but now I can add Topsy and Mary. Elephants have upset me since I learned they could not only cry but commit suicide and the abomination of the ivory trade continues. Globally speaking I don’t like mankind much.

    Surely Ms Curran would not be foolish enough to deny a fairly well documented dinner attendance ,had she indeed attended?
    Mind you there are those stupid enough and greedy enough to go for the” free lunch without thought “approach.
    I look forward to the newspaper photos.

  174. Robert Kerr says:

    Dorothy, The Masai believe that elephants are the only animals that have souls.

    It raises the question if SLABs have them.

  175. caz-m says:

    Here is a short video of the dinner that Mags Curran was/wasn’t at the other night.

    You could try pausing it to see if you can spot Mags getting stuck into her six course dinner.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2015/02/05/jeremy-vine-arms-dealers-dinner_n_6620034.html

  176. Dorothy Devine says:

    The Masai will be correct – Labour have shown themselves to be uncaring ,soulless liars who would pose with elephants with a “save the …” placard if they thought it would earn them a few more votes.

  177. john king says:

    BigJock says
    “Stage 2 has begun folks. Dirty tricks from here on in. They did the same in the referendum. Will they ever learn.”

    So we can look forward to some angry Record readers demanding the sacking of Margaret Curran who wouldn’t be shedding any tears if Alex Salmond was run over by a bus, or Ian Davidson who advocates the bayoneting of the wounded, or Jimmy Hood who stated in parliament that he would STILL vote against independence even if it were provably the best thing for Scotland,

    I look forward to the angry mob led by TC armed with pitchforks and torches any time, anytime now, in a mo, any minute now,

  178. caz-m says:

    Surely London Luvvy, Torquil Crichton of the Daily Record, got an invite to the Arms Dealers Bash. And surely he had his wee polaroid camera with him.

    C’mon Torquil, was Mags there or not?

  179. john king says:

    “Anyone with an IQ higher than a Lanarkshire Labour councillor ”

    Well that’s pretty much everybody then! 🙂

  180. Ken500 says:

    ‘Vote No you get nothing’ Yesterday’s men.

    It’s not if, but when.

    Daniel, Rev, Bateman – Brillant.

  181. Macart says:

    @ John King

    Had to pass that link on to WGD. I’m sure Paul will be tickled on reading that article and checking out the guest list.

  182. manandboy says:

    Doug says “….simply expose the myths of the union….

    The verb is ‘demythologise’ – and it’s purpose
    is to separate the truth from what has been made-up.

    Myths are often created to protect those in power.

    Typical is the myth that most Scots are conservative by nature
    and don’t like change.
    If you’re in charge, this is a great myth to keep handy.

    One of the UK’s biggest myths is the Class system,
    whereby the upper classes are best suited
    to rule the country and to have most of the wealth.

    This myth ensures that only those born into wealth and privilege
    will rule the country
    while helping the middle and lower classes to accept
    their position in life without asking awkward questions.

    Another huge myth is the Union itself.
    ‘It has always been like this and must continue like this’.
    So runs the myth created by the British Establishment
    to maintain it’s power and privilege.

    The Labour Party use this myth a lot in Scotland.
    The Labour Party ruled Scotland for many decades,
    till the voters had had enough of them and voted SNP.
    Ever since, Labour has developed a hatred for those voters,
    but transferred their hatred to the SNP.

    Watch out, the pure hatred in Labour circles in Scotland,
    will explode in May when the voters once again
    vote SNP and put nearly 40 Labour MP’s off the gravy train.

    Come to think of it – there is rather too much hatred
    in Scotland in general.
    For myself, I hate – almond essence.
    It’s in some cakes. can’t eat them.

    I won’t go on.

    Suffice to say, Scotland is still partly myth-ridden,
    about Union and class, and more besides.
    Until these myths are more widely debunked,
    Independence may just have to wait a little longer.

  183. Naina Tal says:

    Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people.
    (Garrison Keillor)

  184. Nana Smith says:

    From Christian Wright’s link on the independent….

    https://www.caat.org.uk/issues/influence/resources/2015-02-03.ads.dinner-parliamentarians.pdf

    Curran attended as a guest of Raytheon. Why would the list have her down as ‘attended’ if she wasn’t there.

  185. Naina Tal says:

    Even in a time of elephantine vanity and greed, one never has to look far to see the campfires of gentle people.

  186. Edward says:

    caz-m
    Do MP’s not have to declare being ‘entertained’ and attending junket’s ?
    Would be interesting to check that when it comes available online as we know which MP’s attended

    Another name I noticed on the list was someone called Bill Jamieson. Could that be the same Scotsman journalist ?

  187. McBoxheid says:

    Congratulations Doug Daniel, with surgical precision, you have made the case for no more UKOK.

    I’m in my 50’s and ever since my scooldays where we had to learn English History instead of Scottish history, from the age of 10 I think I became aware how seriously wrongly Scotland was being controlled by England.

    I have always believed that Scotland will be better off alone. All of our lives we have been drip fed subtle propaganda from the English establishment, that we need England to govern us because we can’t manage it ourselves. Exactly the same way the controlled the Empire for so long.

    Most of it was won with Scottish and Irish blood. Whenever things got difficult, they sent in the Jocks and Paddys to sort out what they themselves failed to achieve.

    Fortunately, Ireland saw the light almost 100 years ago. What’s the difference between Scotland and Ireland? The Irish saw the light and broke they yoke of slavery.

    Wake up Scotland, England’s time is up.

  188. Christian Schmidt says:

    “Some suggest federalism as the solution” – well it *is* th answer. I would argue that few people in Scotland want independence for the sake of it, they want it so they can achieve a better country. And as you said yourself, federalism would mean “ending the uneven devolution that rankles people in England”.

    The sole/single/only problem with (properly working) federalism (whether it is the German, Australian, US or whatever model) is that it would mean a humongous transfer of power away from Westminster. And I guess that’s why it currently has little support in London.

  189. Nana Smith says:

    O/T Well worth a watch, Max Kaiser slams the bbc during this report.

    HIDDEN TRUTH: How Goldman Sachs Helped Greece Hide Its Debts, Thus Strapping It To The Euro

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xG8v3BxxSQ

  190. Neil says:

    Maybe Labour should have selected Topsy as their candidate for Glasgow East instead of Mags – an elephant would never forget if they had just attended a banquet laid on by arms dealers

  191. Maxi kerr says:

    You know,in all these fantastic intriguing posts,there was only a few times the word “children” was used.Surely we can agree that what we do, and fight for is in our families and future generations best interest.
    “Sounds straightforward” eh!! but NO, the people(and i mean the same people) who have been immersed in power and privledge for hundreds of years, have no intention of letting go of Scotlands huge natural resources. They will deny our kids the life chances in favour of theirs and their ilk.Remember,these institutions are just frequently spoken words and the inner workings of the establishment machine are run by people just people,who think they have carte blanche to do what they want to us ordinairy beings.
    We “CAN” change this abuse of power at he forthcoming elections,but only if we have courage to install the right kind of people to instigate change for the benifit of all.

  192. RMAC says:

    An excellent post, I wish I could write this well. I read some of the comments posted in the links above and one in particular on the Magrit facebook page that talked about Labour’s place in an independent Scotland. I have to say that it depresses me that anyone would think there would be a place for these lying untrustworthy tribal reptiles in the politics of an independent Scotland.

    The Labour party that existed in the 40’s and 50’s no longer exists and what is in its place is a shower of self serving, unprincipled careerists who couldn’t be trusted to run a straight raffle. There may be some decent people in the party but they are very well hidden and unfortunately very silent. This leads me to question how decent they can be when they are prepared to turn a blind eye to the constant stream of deceit that comes from their masters.

    The parallels between the myth of the great and wonderful union and the myth of the benevolent, caring Labour party that stands up for the rights of the poor are quite remarkable, neither actually exists in reality but we still see them being perpetuated, sometimes by people who know they do not exist but just can’t seem to let the idea go.

  193. Big Jock says:

    Well folks apparently Scotland is on the verge of sinking into the sea according to BBC. Our education system is in tatters, the NHS is underfunded and people have to wait decades to get seen at A& E. The police are lining the streets like child catchers arresting under twelves, there is no oil industry left. The local councils can’t get along with the government…

    Strangely though the government commands over 50% of the voting public. Nicola Sturgeon has massively high approval ratings. The opposition have been rejected! Am I lving in a parallel universe?

  194. Robert Peffers says:

    @msean says:5 February, 2015 at 7:15 pm:

    ” Maybe Scotland should just say “we’re off,see you later ruk”.

    Whoa! msean, What is this rUK you speak of?

    In 1706 the Treaty of Union was signed by just two equally sovereign “KINGDOMS”

    These two were the single country Kingdom of Scotland and the three country Kingdom of England.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the Kingdom of England of 1706/7 was composed of three countries as the historic documents that prove it can still be read. These are the 1284, “Statute of Rhuddlan”, when The Kingdom of England annexed the Principality of Wales.
    http://www.sarahwoodbury.com/the-statute-of-wales/

    Then The English Kingdom annexed Ireland, in 1542, by, “The Crown of Ireland Act”. That placed the crown of Ireland upon the English Monarchs head. Here is the text of that Act :-

    “The King’s highnesse, his heyres and successours, kings of England, be alwayes kings of Ireland and that his majestie, his heyres and successours, have the name, stile title and honour of the King of Ireland with all maner honours, preheminences, preogratives, dignities, and other things whatsoever they be to the estate and majestie of a King imperiall”.

    Thus the 1800/1 Treaty could not create a new Kingdom of Ireland for two reasons. The first being that Ireland had been part of the Kingdom of Ireland since 1542 but had lost part of “The country”, of Ireland as it became a republic and a republic cannot be part of a monarchy. The second being that as the remainder of Ireland was still part of the Kingdom of England it could not be a new kingdom joining the Union. All it did was acknowledge that Ireland had partitioned.

    You will also note that the Establishment continued, to this day, to refer to Wales as, “The Principality”, with the English Monarch’s first son always the Prince of Wales. They also still refer to Northern Ireland as, “The Province”. In both cases a Principality of England and a province of England.

    So, msean, there cannot be a remainder United Kingdom when one equally sovereign partner leaves a bipartite union. The correct legal, “Status Quo Ante”, is a return to the pre-Treaty of Union status of two equally sovereign Kingdoms. Note that the Treaty of Union legally united the two independent royal realms – it makes no mention of countries or country anywhere in the text of the document. Ergo the United Kingdom is a Kingdom – Not a country.

  195. caz-m says:

    Edward

    Our Unionist representatives at Westminster never fail to astound us. Mags Curran and her fellow band of thieves don’t give a shit about their constituents.

    The House of Lords is their “Holy Grail”. It is the their aim in life. The Labour Party route is quite simple. You start of as a Union Rep, then a Councillor, then MP, then Lord or Lady Muck.

    Mags Curran looks as if she is going to fall in the final furlong, along with a load of her fellow troughers.

    Mags wants a piece of this:

    Helen Lawrie Liddell, “Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke.”

  196. Robert Peffers says:

    @john king says:5 February, 2015 at 7:26 pm:
    ” … the less(er) spotted SLABBER you mean?

    Should that not be the Greater Spotted SLABBER, John?

    There’s far ower mony o thaim aboot the noo.

  197. Macart says:

    @ Big Jock

    “Am I lving in a parallel universe?”

    No, they are.

    We live in the one where our kids have access to higher education without penury waiting for them at the other end. Where our elderly receive free care and public transport. Where the council tax is frozen and bedroom tax offset. Where water is still in public hands. Where government intercedes to retain jobs (see Prestwick, Grangemouth and I believe Ferguson Yard). Where inward investment is at an all time high and our devolved government balances the books every year without fail.

  198. One_Scot says:

    RMAC, “I wish I could write this well”

    I think you can.

  199. Big Jock says:

    Oh and a message for the Daily Record! We all felt like nutting the Labour councillors and most of your journalists? after the Referendum result. Put that in your paper you charlatans.

  200. SqueuedPerspextive says:

    What are the chances?
    I would not be surprised if Eggs stepped down for some pretext between now and May.
    A. Sympathy vote (personal)
    B. Sympathy vote (party)
    C. Loadsa free publicity
    D. He is a cad of the highest order.
    E. Sanctioned by millibland.
    E. Peerage.
    F. Lowest move possible and he is captain snake.

  201. Big Jock says:

    I suppose we are really all angry with people like Curran and Lamont. But not necessarily because they are Labour. It’s because they are talentless individuals, who have managed to get a big salary by towing the line and being generally inept. They take up jobs in government and don’t represent the people , they represent the Labour party and themselves. They are useless people in postiions of power. Not much different to Glasgow city council or Aberdeen for that matter. They are like squatters and feel they have a God given right to their positions. Arrogant,greedy,complacent, anti Scottish sychophants.

  202. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says:5 February, 2015 at 8:02 pm:

    “… They voted forcthe status quo,and not E.V.E.L. Am I making sense there ?”

    Indeed you are Bob. At least you are to those with intelligence. Fact is that, as the article indicates, nothing seems to get through the fug of nonsense that is the norm for Unionist numpties.

    They just cannot understand that their adherence to the Unionism of what is legally a single Kingdom but not a single country is without doubt far more nationalistic in a bad way than that of the Scots who only wish to run their own affairs.

    After all their version of nationalism is of the de facto Parliament of England at Westminster forcing three other countries in that Union to do as the English Parliament dictates. Such nationalism caused two World Wars, (and they have the gall to call us NAZIs.

  203. Training Day says:

    On the subject of the Mhairi Black smear, would not suprise me if the Retard are lining up a ‘special’ on all 59 SNP candidates. Once printed, this will allow BBC/STV to report the smears as ‘news’ and have them further disseminated. The referendum fight is going to look like Little House on the Prairie compared with the GE.

    P.S. good article Doug!

  204. galamcennalath says:

    Lesser and Greater Spotted Slabber.

    Are we actually allowed to run a vermin eradication programme for endangered species?

  205. Snode1965 says:

    What is the STUC position regarding the political fighting fund for Labour? I had a visit from my branch conveneior (unite) yesterday as a result of emailing head office (Glasgow) requesting advice for the dozens of SNP members as to how best to remove this payment from our dues. My rep told me that so many members have also cancelled that Unite Scotland will be writing to all members to explain the purpose of the fighting fund and how to cancel it. He told me that Unite are considering a proposal to let members chose to donate these monies to the SNP! Kinda looks like the Trade Unions might just be awakening to the political earthquake happening here in Scotland…time will tell. So please all union members out there get writing, they work for you not the Red Tories.

  206. jackie g says:

    Snode1965 says:

    So please all union members out there get writing, they work for you not the Red Tories.

    Snode,

    I recieved a form last week from my SNP branch ( i will try and post it here) i am a member of Unison which has two funds and i have been trying to get conformation of which one i am paying into.

    Basically the form asks the union to stop paying your subs into any Labour fund..

  207. david agnew says:

    This sort of chimes in with Colin Kidd, and his view of the union. He referred to it as banal unionism. This is where the institution becomes mere wallpaper and people end up forgetting that it was there at all. Kidd saw this a positive thing and from a perspective grounded in pre indyref Scotland, you could see how someone would see it that way. Come Sept 19th, the referendum put that Unionist wallpaper under the spotlight. More and more people are increasingly aware of how inadequate it actually is.

    The one clear opportunity they had to fix it, was the smith commission. But they were determined to ensure Scotland got nothing. Now they are in danger of losing Scotland, labour want to relaunch the vow by using a “weaponised” Gordon Brown. The problem is that vow was declared as delivered. You can’t re-deliver on a promise that you delivered. People just aren’t that stupid. The polls reflect this. This is were that cozy relationship with the MSM starts to unravel, had they the wit to realise it.

    Dutifully reported and never questioned, no matter what is said.
    Contradicted the next day/week/month but reported as if the previous occasions had not occurred. It doesn’t make you sound clever, it ultimately makes you incoherent. You can’t declare something a trap, then declare it a bonus. You can’t say you voted for something, when later it turns out you didn’t. You can’t demand more money for some emergency, then vote against it. You cannot do any of the above and expect a compliant media to make you seem anything other than inconsistent.

    This is what is killing labour in Scotland imho. The irony of a biased media, inadvertently drawing attention to the mountain of crap that is stacked clear up to the rafters, leaving labour precious little room to maneuver.

    Disagree? Look at the polls again. Consistent, despite the media support. No one who believes in the union, expected labour to be facing meltdown. When you here the following “Vote labour to keep out the tories” – As endorsed by the Conservative party, then you know the union has jumped the shark.

  208. Big Jock says:

    Training Day. Correct. It’s interesting they had to trawl back and find something on You Tube. When emotions were running high with everyone after the no vote. Something that you said in a speech in a public square is dragged up! This is the start of the dirt digging. The ironic part is that probably every journalist in the Record will have something shameful or embarassing in their past. To me Mhairi was articulating even if crudly how we all felt which was betrayal!

    We saw all of this before in the Referendum. They tried every recess in Salmond’s past to find something to assasinate him with. They came up blank such is the professionalism of the man. Expect the mud to be slung from now on. Torquil is now like a rabid dog because he colluded and lied with the Labour party and was found out. Ironically I think Mhairi’s comments will boost her support!

  209. muttley79 says:

    Nasty smear story about Mhairi Black in the Record. Rancid paper. You know when Ian Davidson said he would bayonet the Yes side after a No vote (whatever happened to that eh? 😀 ), I cannot recall the articles in the Record talking about him fantasising about violence….

  210. john king says:

    “There’s far ower mony o thaim aboot the noo.”

    Not for much longer (I hope) they’ll an endangered species very soon! 🙂

  211. Marcia says:

    Big Jock

    Labour is at present like a cornered cat. Get near it and it will lash its claws at you. A lot of these smears may backfire. It proves that they are very worried indeed.

  212. RMAC says:

    One_Scot says; I think you can.
    Thanks but you are too kind. Most of the time I read other peoples posts and think yeah, what he said but he’s put it better than I would have. Other times I go off on a tangent that isn’t really relevant to the original thread which makes me consider should I post or not.

    I often see people saying that the SNP or someone on the Yes side should counter whatever rubbish is coming out of Pravda Quay or the Daily Retread or some other MSM source. I suspect that they do and frequently but it is never reported anywhere so it always appears to those who get their news from these sources that they have been caught out (an example of this is the Rev’s post about the selective NHS waiting times statistics) and have no answer as its true. It is either never put to them or when it is their replies are for the most part either selectively edited or never broadcast/published at all.

    Ok, I’ll stop rambling now.

  213. Robert Peffers says:

    @Onwards says:5 February, 2015 at 8:42 pm:

    “I reckon federalism will happen at some point, in an attempt to settle the constitutional question.”

    You have to be kidding, Onwards!

    The not often realised actual Westminster situation is that the present Establishment arrangement not only elects 533 English United Kingdom Members to Westminster against a grand total of 117 non-English United Kingdom Members but that those 533 are also the de facto parliament of England. Not to mention that the actual, “Establishment”, also contains the biggest non-elected legislation in the World, (The HOL).

    The Establishment also includes a lot more than just the Westminster Parliament as it also includes – The Royals, Hereditary Peers, Eton, Harrow and Winchester; Oxford and Cambridge; the Brigade of Guards; the Civil Service, Foreign and Commonwealth Office: The upper echelons of the Armed Forces, The Inner Temple. Mainly white’s and CofE. All wearing MCC ties, (even if they’d never ever been to Lord’s.). Wealthy, Unionist and mainly Tory, (Blue/Red and Yellow), and of course, The Media.

    There is no way in the World that lot are going to willingly give up their domination of what they term, “The Nation”. Never forget that those 533 Members of the UK parliament are also the unelected as such members of the Parliament of England that was once the United Kingdom Parliament.

    The only distant hope of a federal parliament in the present legally bipartite United Kingdom would have been getting the Parliament of England out of the United Kingdom Parliament and funding England with a block grant like every other country in the Union.

  214. jackie g says:

    Not good with technology so hoping this works..

    NO MORE UNION FUNDS TO THE LABOUR PARTY.mht

  215. chris kilby says:

    The sheer blind panic and impotent rage born of frustration these polls have whipped-up on other forums (The Guardian, etc) has been a joy to behold. Schadenfreude is a dish best served oh-so-s-l-o-w-l-y…

  216. icySpark says:

    O/T
    Wow, the BBC claim only 10.1% of A&E waiting time targets of 4 hours in Scotland were met in December, compared to the actual figure of 89.9%. See third paragraph.

    “It comes after figures for Scotland, published on Tuesday, showed 89.9% had waited longer than four hours in December.”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31163363

    No doubt a simple mistake on their part, or was it 😉

  217. woosie says:

    We all thought Lord Robertson was barking when he spoke about the forces of darkness gathering around us; just saw a picture in MSM of Nosferatu holding a human baby! We scoffed when the Son of God reappeared in the form of the Coventry goalkeeper, now his chief opponent is posing as leader of a political party (albeit the accounting unit, sub branch)!
    BTW, kudos to the much-maligned Sarah Smith; caught her interview with some faceless ukok mug, who said that if the Scotch weren’t happy with the Barnet money they could give it back. Her reply was, surely that’s what they tried to do in the referendum!

  218. Robert Kerr says:

    O/T re license fee.

    Peers blow to government’s TV licence fee plans

    By Nicholas Randall and Trevor Mason, Press Association Political Staff
    Thursday 5 February 2015

    The UK Government has been defeated in the House of Lords as peers voted against allowing the decriminalisation of non-payment of the licence fee before 2017.

    Ministers have set up an independent review in to the issue, due to report this summer, and want to keep open the option of taking swift action following it.

    But peers voted by 178 to 175, majority three, in favour of a cross-party amendment to prevent any change before the next licence fee settlement begins in April 2017.

    Isn’t democracy wonderful. Three unelected troughers block this to ensure non-payment of the BBC tax is still a criminal act.

  219. crisiscult says:

    @muttley79 alex salmond falling under a bus? We could get a list together and send it to the DR?

  220. Nana Smith says:

    Re the arms dinner gatecrasher….

    I gatecrashed a banquet for arms dealers because death and misery should never be considered ‘business as usual’

    https://archive.today/koCc9

  221. @Robert Peffers
    A bit O/T ,Is the the Name of the rugby tournament `The Six Nations` correct or are there seven if you include The Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland as separate or is there four because Wales is a principality and Northern Ireland is a province?

  222. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Big Jock 10.03. Drop the WE in your post,if you want to go nutting DR journalists you know where the DR HQ is.

    Dont use this site & us Wingers to spout your shite. We can & often do speak for ourselves,& thats more down to frustration that anything else & thats the situation Mharie Black found herself in on the morning of the 19th Sept.

  223. Stoker says:

    @ Robert Kerr (11.21am).

    Do you have a list of names and how they voted?

  224. crazycat says:

    I’ve just had a reply from CAAT in response to my request for clarification.

    They say that the list published was the guest list given out on the night, which included Curran and Donohoe, as did the table plan.

    They can’t, of course, say they don’t believe her denials (or perhaps they are just less cynical than we are), though they did include the link to the Common Space article.

    They conclude by suggesting that I may want to ask her to go on record condemning Raytheon for their deadly actions.

    One of her constituents would have to do that, I think, since she would be under no obligation to answer me.

  225. jackie g says:

    Still trying to post that form for union dues,

    Came across this very interesting reading, especially the stuff from the late Bob crow.

    http://www.scottishleftreview.org/article/labour-and-the-trade-unions/

  226. john king says:

    Robert Kerr says
    “O/T re license fee.

    Peers blow to government’s TV licence fee plans

    By Nicholas Randall and Trevor Mason, Press Association Political Staff
    Thursday 5 February 2015”

    I don’t believe for a heartbeat the “decriminalizing” of non payment of the licence fee is for the benefit of the non payers,in in fact I would go as far as to say the government knows that the more people who “know their rights” the more people will tell them to stuff it,
    The law as it stands requires a higher degree of proof for a criminal conviction that a civil case requires!

  227. Big Jock says:

    Icy – My brotehr works in NHS. Even the 4 hour issue is a red herring. It suggests patients come in and sit for 4 hours to be seen.

    It’s not what happens they come in get assessed right away. Some of the low priority ones are then told to wait for treatment while the urgent cases are dealt with. the non urgent ones are people coming in with colds,sore throats,black eyes,drunks and some completely non necessary A & E cases. It happens all over the world. Why would you treat someone with a sore throat in A & E. The 9-10% represents the time wasters and unecessary attendees. You can’t stop people turning up but you can make them wait in line. You will never stop this altogether hence you will never obtain 100%. the best you can get is 90%.

  228. Joemcg says:

    How pathetic is that DR black video? Desperadoes.BBC and the Rancid, sinking ships and rats come to mind.

  229. Stoker says:

    Well done, Nana, you’ve done brilliantly with this Anne Marie O’reilly story.

    Vote SNP and rid Scotland of her Unionist Warmongers.

  230. Big Jock says:

    Ronnie …calm down man it was tongue and cheek. Not going to fall out over it. But you are taking things as literally as the MSM do! Kindly don’t use that tone with me either!

  231. Papadox says:

    SOTTISH PUBLIC BROADCASTING

    HOLYROOD must demand transfer of BBC (scotland) to Scotland. A foreign country (ENGLAND) should not be allowed to manage and control of broadcasting in Scotland, it is bizarre.

    Scottish broadcasting should be responsible to the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish people.

    The licence fee raised in Scotland should be the responsibility of the Scottish Parliament.

  232. Robert Peffers @ 11.34

    Re “The Six Nations” – this is the correct designation, since the tournament is contested by six national teams, chosen by six national governing bodies.

    The RFU runs the game in England
    The FFR runs the game in France
    The IRFU runs the game in the whole of the island of Ireland
    The FIR runs the game in Italy
    The SRU runs the game in Scotland
    The WRU runs the game in Wales

    There are indeed, seven different nations involved (or, if you want to be picky: five nations: England, France, the Republic of Ireland, Italy, Scotland: the principality of Wales and the province of Northern Ireland; but, with six governing bodies, Six Nations makes sense.

  233. K1 says:

    The Daily Record is unthinking, uncaring, utterly bereft of any kind of decency or humanity within their ranks. They are hypocrites. Call yourselves journalists?

    Smearing, jeering, lying, insulting to the intelligence and downright ignorant of the people you insult daily with your garbage rag.

    Scotland is waking up you shower of idiots. Either start reporting on the true state of affairs instead of following orders from your bosses. Are you rats? What happened to you people?

    When Labour’s fortunes fall so do yours. You too will be a defunct as you do not represent the views of the people in the country you claim to be reporting on.

    Be warned, tick tock…your nasty sneering and sniping is being seen for what it is. There is no going back now, we are not returning to the ‘fold’ of Labour and the more you insult one of own citizens, Mhairi Black, you insult all of us who come from working class backgrounds immersed in socialist principles since we were born.

    Mhairi Black represent that tradition in Scotland, her background is borne of a strong Labour tradition of sticking up for the poor and working class, representing their plight. Her passionate outpouring at George Square was for the loss of this within the ranks of Labour, and especially for their joining together with the Tory traditions of slamming the poorer members of our society for the ills of the world, that their ilk cause.

    That she expressed this in language that was real, raw, to the point and on the back of witnessing some of the most sickening language from the Better together brigade aligned against improving the said working class’s prospects through the hope of independence, was a completely appropriate response at that moment.

    Context, context, context, you bunch of moronic wankers. Gies peace.

  234. Stoker says:

    Cheers, Robert (11.55am).

    And going by that link, Libore Party Peers are largely responsible.

  235. Onwards says:

    Have labour officially ruled out a coalition with the Tories or not?

    Surprised they haven’t been pressed on this.

  236. bjsalba says:

    Right on the nail with this article Doug, right on the nail!

    The over development of London feeds the house price bubble, and by attracting all the jobs and workers (including immigrants) contributions to the problems in providing public services.

    Unless London learns to do the sharing part of pooling and sharing, there will be will be no progress.

  237. jackie g says:

    Big Jock: Ronnie:

    Cmoan boys play nicely..

    Nana:

    Thanks for that link to Anne Marie, some of the comments posted were alarming to say the least..

  238. Joemcg says:

    Seems absolutely crazy that that rag is rebelling against the vast majority of the scottish people (ironic eh?!) and becoming a mouthpiece for the minority unionists.Do they have a death wish?

  239. Big Jock says:

    K1 I agree it’s context and like I said. We (I)Ronnie felt exactly the same at that moment. when someone sticks a knife in your back and then smiles in your face. You don’t walk away and say oh well better luck next time!

    Also some people who post on here need to be careful of their tone to other posters , and their use of language to other posters!

  240. Please people – when commenting on the Daily Record, remember. This so-called newspaper is the Scottish arm of the London-based Trinity Mirror Group.

    Rather like the Labour Party, the Record is very-much a branch office. All the major decisions are taken in London.

    It is a sub-office of a branch of the British Establishment, which has been bleeding readers for years, but, which seems incapable of staunching the bleed. The Record is becoming desperate and, desperate people do desperate things when cornered.

    I used to work for another newspaper within the TM Group. We were doing well, but, TM wanted editorial job losses, our editor refused to agree to this and left. It is a pity there are apparently no journalists on the Record today with his integrity.

    Such is the situation in the fourth Estate these days, with decreasing circulations for print editions and a failure to properly use the internet and social media, that many journalists are choosing to toe the party line, not make waves and hang onto their jobs.

    I think the Record is a particularly good (bad) example of this.

    That said, there are people in management positions with the paper who would never have got through the door when I was a boy.

  241. Lollysmum says:

    O/T but funny video from Energy Bill Revolution

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nzf0DrbQJrQ

  242. Robert Peffers says:

    @Nana Smith says:6 February, 2015 at 9:02 am:

    “Curran attended as a guest of Raytheon. Why would the list have her down as ‘attended’ if she wasn’t there.”

    Perhaps, Nana Smith, Mags was only there in body but not in spirit. Working on the theory that the body could get there and tank up on the free gratis spirits on offer?

  243. Joemcg says:

    OT gonna put my no voter hat on and say France -10 at evens tomorrow is a steal! Apologies to the Scotland team, ach who cares! guaranteed 80% of Murrayfield goers voted no!

  244. Patrick Roden says:

    BBC/Daily Record, summed up in one short comment:

    This ones for Rev, or any other Aberdeen fans! 🙂

    From the Friday BBC Sports, Scottish Football, rumour section.
    What is even more delightful about this, is that the Useless BBC, were quoting the Useless Daily Record, in this story.

    For the non -football people among us, I will set the scene for you:

    Last week the ‘World Famous Dundee United Football Club knocked the hapless Aberdeen out of the League Cup.

    Now this was a blow to Aberdeen, as they had already been knocked out of the Scottish Cup (there’s two major cup competitions in Scotland) so this meant Aberdeen (who have been playing really well) found themselves knocked out both cups.

    So we know that the BBC’s quoting the Aberdeen manager saying the following, is completely made up!

    In fact lets just cut to the chase here, the BBC is no more than Electronic Tabloid Gutter Press, or the News of the World in lights!

    Enjoy!!!

    “Aberdeen manager Derek McInnes has urged the Dons to put everything into the remainder of their Scottish Cup campaign after suffering their second domestic cup exit of the season last weekend. (Daily Record, print edition) “

  245. Nana Smith says:

    O/T Gerry Hassan writes…..

    Scottish Labour became the party of the fix, of doing deals, insider political trading, and of losing sight of its founding principles. It became a self-preservation society.

    https://archive.today/O6qku

  246. scottieDog says:

    Joemcg
    I fear you might be right about result and majority of murrayfield goers. I will be at work and will miss it – which strangely is normally a good omen for Scotland!

  247. Fred says:

    Gordon Brewer on the wireless just fired off a pile of NHS statistics at John Swinney, John completely debunked these and shot Brewer down in flames, despite being constantly interupted.
    An un-interrupted Jenny Marra, by way of contrast, was permitted to spout hearsay & waffle, this wummin is so lightweight it’s a wonder she doesn’t float off and gie us peace.

  248. Barontorc says:

    So those despicable ‘Lords’ earned their £350 a day plus expenses by voting to keep the BBC licence fee as a crime if not paid.

    Guess who? Every slavering Jumped up Scottish Labour loonie stuck by it ‘Content’. To name but a few; Maxton, who’s father must be spinning in his grave. McAvoy, a jumped up trade unionist. McFall, a pseudo expert on money matters and master of none. McConnell, who bought his ‘Lordship’ by returning billions to the Treasury – unspent and no idea what to spend it on! O’Neill, another trade union trougher. Watson, a drunkard and convicted arsonist.

  249. Robert Peffers says:

    @Big Jock says: 6 February, 2015 at 10:03 am:

    “Oh and a message for the Daily Record! We all felt like nutting the Labour councillors and most of your journalists? after the Referendum result. Put that in your paper you charlatans”

    Ach! Big Jock, I was going to post that fantasising about nutting the SLABBERS was not in the same league as advocating bayoneting those of his constituents who voted for Scottish Independence : –

    http://www.glawest.org/ian-davidson-mp-repeats-call-to-bayonet-scottish-independence-supporters/

    I didn’t bother as I remembered what Napoleon said when his opponent was making a stupid attempt to outflank his army, “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a wrong move”. I judge the Record to be making wrong decisions so who am I to correct them?

  250. Desimond says:

    Woman in Glasgow displays displeasure….if thats news then the Daily Record should be 500 pages every edition.

    Im sure the Record also covered the infamous Jim Murphys FUCK OFF FUCK OFF FUCK OFF rant at SNP in the House of Commons

    They did didnt they?

  251. Nana Smith says:

    @Stoker

    I do try, my hubby says “the patience of a saint” hahaha

    @jackie g

    when I read the article there was just a few comments. I rather think those who were at the dinner are those commentators who are attempting to disparage Anne Marie

    @Robert Peffers

    Well Robert I hope she took a doggy bag home with her as she will need it soon, I hope. Unless of course an arms dealer will offer her a job. Maybe cleaning offices or the like.

  252. David Wardrope says:

    Good article, only thing for me is the part, “The union cannot possibly accommodate everyone, which is why it has always settled for accommodating the largest part.”

    It can be argued that this is the case for any country or society all over the world, and I’ve yet to find a convincing rebuttal.

  253. Camz says:

    “But what they never tell us is WHY.”

    It’s very simple. They cannot conceive of an alternative to the status quo, and they will not expend energy on comprehending an alternative, when it is not in their interests to do so.

    Do you spend time comprehending the problems of Iceland? Of course not, and Scotland is as far away to them as Iceland seems to you. A third of the UK Lives South of Luton, and for many, that’s where the world ends. Out of sight, out of mind.

    “Don’t bother me with that far away problem. Let’s just keep things as they are, because they’re fine as they are. Pip Pip!”

  254. Robert Peffers says:

    @SqueuedPerspextive says: 6 February, 2015 at 10:05 am:

    “What are the chances?
    I would not be surprised if Eggs stepped down for some pretext between now and May.”

    Nah! every time I see that reprobate I am reminded of a Saturday afternoon matinee at the local bughouse when I was a wee boy. “The Clutching Hand”.

    The Murph’s clutching hand is a totally involuntary action he is not about to soon allow to stop.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Nf6GXuuacE

  255. Camz says:

    “Anyone with an IQ higher than a Lanarkshire Labour councillor”

    Are we giving rodents the vote now?

  256. Arabs for Independence says:

    @ Patrick Rodden
    “Last week the ‘World Famous Dundee United Football Club knocked the hapless Aberdeen out of the League Cup.”

    Worth repeating 🙂

    Jenny Marra getting a fair bit of stick from the audience on BBCs debate from Pitlochry. Interesting as the audience had been very quiet until Ms Marra started to speak – she has very much been ‘fund oot’

  257. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Macia 9.11pm – Article in Scotsman NOTE that Scotsman is saying SNP at 52% of ABC1 and the largest share of people over 60 years 42%. If so, big change from the referendum

    “prospect of Westminster politics set for a turbulence not seen since the days of Charles Stewart Parnell and the Irish home rule question – and very possibly with a similar result.”

    ALSO Margaret Currans Facebook page with the ‘largest party forms government’ inaccurate statement is still there (www.facebook.com/MargaretCurranForGlasgowEast?fref=nf )

    But here is her new Facebook page for those of you wanting to police this election for accuracy of statements – this page appears to have been started shortly after the one above went pear-shaped and her inaccurate statements was outed. http://www.facebook.com/margaretcurran?fref=ts

    and an odd automatically generated one https://www.facebook.com/pages/Margaret-Curran/113992915315198?fref=ts

  258. Grendel says:

    @nana smith

    Nana Smith says:
    “6 February, 2015 at 12:30 pm

    O/T Gerry Hassan writes…..

    Scottish Labour became the party of the fix, of doing deals, insider political trading, and of losing sight of its founding principles. It became a self-preservation society.”

    It’s not alone in that respect.
    We need to be careful that in our rush to elect ANY SNP MPs that we don’t abandon our principles. The SNP are very much the establishment in Scotland. With that comes a sense of entitlement
    . Radical independence it is not.

  259. Fred says:

    @ Grendel, you’re a wee bit confused, the SNP are in government, Labour are very much the establishment.

  260. Big Jock says:

    I gave up reading Gerry Hassan .When he started slagging of Yes supporters, for going on about the result. He, at one point wanted everyone to move on and get on with, the country we now live in. In other words muddle through as best we can and live with the decision.

    Not on your life Gerry. The SNP will never be the establishment in the UK. The establishment is the United Kingdom and Westminster. The SNP will only ever be the establishment after independence.

  261. HandandShrimp says:

    The Daily Record, the comic that cut reader comments because they couldn’t handle the truth.

    The Record is a joke and one that is on the wrong side of history.

  262. Marga says:

    Nana Smith, 9.10 – that’s some video, leaves the BBC where it’s generally left here – “what do you expect from a state medium, putting out the corporate viewpoint”, with mention of honour of Emily Maitlis of Newsnight.

  263. Susan Macdiarmid says:

    great read but federalism seems to me a likely result of independence. North Engerland will be next in the ‘restless natives’ queue; break up into regional parliaments follows, including Wales. N. Ireland secedes in disgust thus reuniting Ireland. House of Lords no longer needed as Westminster becomes a sort of giant COSLA (joking, honest!) becomes a parliament of parliaments covering…defence? Whatever we all decide it covers.sounds good to me. Why not?

  264. Marga says:

    re. The Big Debate. Who is this Gordon Brewer? What party does he represent? Not enough just to pull up Swinney every two words, but arguing with other panelists who support him?

    Maybe I’ve just mistaken the speakers, but if I haven’t, that isn’t “holding the government to account”, it’s simply dishonest coverage. Incredible.

  265. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Caught the final few minutes of ‘The Big Debate’ on RS this lunchtime after turning it off approx five minutes in.

    Can’t be bothered digging out the I-Player link, but the comments above are correct – Jenny Marra tried to trot out the ‘biggest party makes government’ line, and elicited howls of protest (from WOS readers?). Brewer tried to shoo it all away, and asked her to continue.

    She did. And she repeated the same shite, getting the same furious response from some in the audience. She then (bear in mind this was via radio) gave it Bambi, stuttered, and said she’d already answered the question, wasn’t going to be ‘shouted-down’ again. Quivering lips? You’d better believe it.

    Aww, bless…she must’ve missed the lecture where they emphasised that pishing oneself during a live public debate is not good.

    If Jenny Marra is supposed to be one of SLab’s big-hitters? they’re burned toast which no amount of scraping will render edible.

    Fuck ’em.

  266. Stoker says:

    Marga says:
    “re. The Big Debate. Who is this Gordon Brewer? What party does he represent?”

    The BBC Labour Party (Scottish branch).

  267. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Interesting stuff from Grendel. Interesting in that it is mostly meaningless soundbite stuff.
    What is “radical” independence?
    Independence is independence. Adding the word “radical” to it does not change its meaning in anyway, but it maybe sounds portentous to the easily impressed.
    I’m away out now to get a radical scotch pie.

    And of course members of the SNP will support all SNP candidates. That’s part of the deal when you join a party.

  268. Fred says:

    Anybody else notice how posh Gordon Brewer has become? he even refers to himself as Godon now, rather like that other Godon from North Queensferry. What is it with these Godons?



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