The Drop
Posted on
May 07, 2016 by
Chris Cairns
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07 05 16 08:56
The Drop | speymouth
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Nice one Chris.
I think Ruth will find that her step has a trapdoor in it!
The “Ruthie straddle” is spot on.
Excellent Chris , as always.
Still wondering who is still voting SLab ?
Feels as if the Beeb have switched to biggin’ up their aul pal Ruthie a bit more.
Click link on Right of this page “Business For Scotland” and read GMK’s latest script on 7 reasons etc …… food for thought
Well done Got it spot on.
That’s more like it. 🙂
Sad to see the SNP just two short of a majority. Thus the country is saddled with, arguably, the absolutely two most toxic numpties in Scottish politics, Wee Willie Rennie and Ruthie Tank Commander.
Best illustration yet of where the political parties stand in regard to voter support.
When the tank commander’s not talking bull, she’s thinking bull.
Thank you Chris for bringing a large dose of humour to a sad situation.It works damned well.
A day and a half of thought has taught me several things. The SNP are the only reliable vehicle to self determination.Rise and all the rest are ultimately opportunists who see the cause of independence as a route to power rather than an end in itself.
These parties were ruthlessly used and promoted by the media and several allegedly pro independence sites like Bella ,to promote” diversity “within the political landscape.
Of course when you add water to milk you dilute its effect. Independence was the
aim ,not political self gain.We were outflanked by our own side.
Secondly I think Nicola had a fantastic result considering everything and its aunty was lined up against her,including so called “allies” in the struggle for freedom.
History does though tell us one thing.A people united will always triumph over the worst odds .I remain up for the fight, but let me be clear that from this day on my motto is “If you are not for us,you are against us”
BBC RADIO Scotllan at it once again woke up to “…the SNP FAILED..” and “..Failed” and “Failed”
SNP expectations were too high……
Surely the truth is Curtice provides the stats some folk listen to the Sunday Herald and the other yoony papers that it was in the bag and we all could vote Green if we had a conscience. Even Lesley Riddoch said it would be ok.
Fact is there is enough division between the minority parties to get legislation through. What the Greens want to support probably the tories or labour wont.
Well, a system designed to prevent an absoulte majority prevented an absolute majority.
The good thing here is that the Tories have well and truely been flushed out into the open. It’s now a straight fight between the pro-independence movement and the Tories.
The BBC’s bias will become even more pronounced and Ruth won’t be able to hide anymore. We’ll get so much pro-Tory propaganda, and with Labour so useless and discredited, the situation in Scotland will finally crystalise.
I’m optimistic actually – I think that the enhanced exposure for Tories and their already evident ‘imperial triumphism’ (to use Irish President Higgin’s recent phrase about the British) will be their undoing.
The First Minister (tbc) will be in her element now the Tories in opposition..
Mr Corbyn will be tuning in FMQT’s to learn from her
Good cartoon. Could it be sent to David Cameron to moderate his “rejoicing” at Ruth Davidson’s “triumph”. Remember the SNP have more MSP’s than the Tories,Labour and Lib/Dems combined!
I am looking forward to Ruth Davidson frequently visiting both 11 and 10 Downing Street making demands on the residents there to make life better for HER voters and to make possible all HER promises.
My personal view is that the new powers look more like more burdens. Of course it was a trap just to deolve only a fraction of the revenue powers. SNP please watch where you place your feet.
Avatars not showing again… ‘cept for a few.
They are off. ‘it’s very difficult for the SNP’ blah, blah. ‘Less support for Independence’. Despite the vote increasing. ‘SNP minority gov’. Tory break through’ A flawed electorate system. Depending on which region the votes are casted. Instead of a national tally being distributed regionally proportionately. Votes being unrepresented. Minority Parties gaining representation with minuscule proportion of votes. Voters being blamed for being supposed to second guess a crazy electoral system and vote for a Party they don’t support.
Voters conned again by 2nd rate Pollsters. Illegally gerrymandering and laughing all the way to the bank. Breaking purdah. A disgrace.
The SNP Gov doing a good job has to be ‘held to account’. The Tories, Greens and Westminster need to be held to account.
MSM don’t like the results in South. Tories getting held to account.
Apologies re above post I forgot about the lying liberals. I am old enough to remember when they were cuddlie.
FMQ Wullie disnae get twa questions. One every 3 months would be fine for twa us a.
preferarably during Ester breaks etc
Can everybody calm down. That’s a great cartoon. That was a great result. We have been hammered relentlessly,dishonestly in all the media for 18 months. That was the union’s last desperate stand in Scotland.They held the line for few minutes in historical terms. That is all.
The Labour party is finished and a political buffoon has now been promoted to our main challenger.
The final battle started yesterday. It is now Scotland versus the Tories for independence
The BBC unionists did their job for the union and split the indy vote – that was deliberate and disgraceful. Rise and TS got what they deserved – it is too soon for them and too self-serving. Thank heavens there are no UKIP in SP.
James Kelly was on radio yesterday lunchtime – I’m afraid labour will never learn blaming everyone and their granny but not labour – they too deserve what they got though to see RD in opposition is awful but might polarise the left/right thinking. The fact that RD did not even mention being a conservative during the whole campaign says it all.
RD will have to show her hand and it won’t be pretty but fab Nicola will have no trouble showing her up for what she is.
But most of all we must remember the BBC and MSM work for the union – do not ever trust them – the want something quite different from us.
Major Bloodnok: “A system designed to prevent an absoulte majority prevented an absolute majority.”
Indeed. And it’s a system designed to attract anybody who thinks they’re a political party to get 15 minutes of fame courtesy of the taxpayer.
Finally the Tories are in our sights. You’d think we lost by the pessimism around. This is a great result. Everybody on here wanted Labour gubbed. Result.
Everybody wanted the SNP to win. Result.
Now it’s us versus the Tories. Result.
C’moan everybody, cheer up. We cannae lose!
No hiding place for Tory’s now Mr Bloodnok. 😉
Dave McEwan Hill
You are right of course- we should bring on the remaining labour folk who still were loyal to labour. It is clear down south Corbyn will be purged by the right wing of his party or tories as I would prefer to call them.
EU referendum coming up. Will that placate the Westminster pack so peace and tranquillity reigns? So happy ukip ignored by the voters in Scotland although many would vote tory tactically.
@MajorBloodnok,
Yip – agree with you there.
I welcome a straight SNP v Tory battle for the Union without labour acting as their proxies in Scotland.
Still need to push on to convince more Labour voters to switch and I reckon a few more years of the mad Tory government in Westminster should be enough to do that.
Onwards and upwards to an independent Republic of Scotland.
Are you sure you’ve got this right Chris? Judging by what I’m reading in the press ‘Miss Trunchbull of the Anti-Referendum party’ is number one.
What I find interesting about Miss Trunchbull & her Anti-Referendum party is just how scared they are of a 2nd referendum.
Glad to see that Nicola ‘vows to keep making the case for independence’
I can’t see every opposition MSP opposing a second referendum following a Brexit..
p.s. Great cartoon Chris – sums up the situation perfectly!
On topic slightly off.
LBC bigging up Ruth as a potential leader at Westminster. Her star is definitely in the ascendent from the London perspective.
At approx 0825 Lorna from Stirling called in on the “Mayor Khan” phone in. Lorna’s complaint was that he, Khan, wasn’t British and “we” should have someone British in high office. Of course Mr Khan is a London boy born and bred.
Nick Ferarri gave her a pitying tone.
But what is interesting and is the point that I’ll try to articulate is this;
Lorna (posh Scottish accent) is your typical Yoon. Yearning after a Britishness that doesn’t exist and hasn’t existed for 40 years. Her Enid Blyton Britain is no more, yet, as Nick Ferarri pointed out to Lorna “Khan is British!”
The irony, of course, is that Ruthie played a blinder in appealing to that sense of nostalgic Britishness beloved of the Yoons and it’s a complete fiction!
Ruthie’s electionering Britishness and Britain does not exist. It’s gone. It’s history! Not that this a bad thing but your average Yoon (and I know many) is voting for Enid Blyton as sold by conwoman Ruth but it’s existence is as flimsy and thin as the paper on which the Famous 5 is printed on.
Suck it up Yoonies and Lorna!
Simply brilliant, Chris. RD dry humping the Also Ran podium? Sheer genius.
What a stunning victory for Nicola S and the Pro Self Determination parties.
Steady as she goes. On course for Independence soon now.
Frank McAveety, and the Rotten Boroughs next May.
Hilarious. My favourite so far.
I like this: more positive than some of the negativity I heard expressed yesterday. You’ve also nailed Ruth’s psychotic grin. Spot on.
A very good summarisation of the Scottish Election. Through the trapdoor went Labour …and who knows how far that drop will be! Oblivion awaits!
And Ruth’s first cry as opposition is once again calling on Nicola to ‘rule out a second referendum’.
Seriously, is this all we’re going to get for the next 5 years from a party that promised to be the ‘strong opposition’. Kezia spouted this same nonsense week in, week out, and she and her party are nowhere now. In that, lies the warning to Ruth. A one-trick pony is only loved for so long. After a while, the act becomes boring.
Also, there is every chance that the UK will remain in the EU come a month’s time (thus pretty much negating the idea of a 2nd Referendum). Nicola will never answer the question, simply because she doesn’t have too. If a 2nd Referendum does come, it will come about through circumstance and not based on someone wishing it.
I really do hope that Ruth has a little more in the locker than looking to pacify the rather more extreme lot that her party has gathered over the election. If this is her game plan for the next 5 years, then apart from being a long 5 years, I wonder how long some of her own supporters will ask her to just drop it. By continually harping on about it, you’re not really putting it to bed. And in doing so, the Scottish Parliaments two main parties are now staring at each other not as opposites, but also over very different ideologies when it comes to the Scottish Constitution. Ruth’s tactics of ending the debate, just brought it front and centre and may have kept it there permanently.
In one sense, Ruth should be very careful for what she wishes for. By trying to end it, she has instead, implemented and ingrained the argument squarely in every persons head in Scotland.
Mr thms… we don’t need every opposition MSP… we only need two of them. 😉
Straight SNP-Tory battle from now on. Couldn’t be better.
I try to console myself by thinking that if we had got a result like this prior to 2011 we would have been dancing in the street. Still feels like a consolation prize though.
I think that it wont take long until I’m thoroughly fed up with shouty Ruth Davidson “Conservative and Loyalist party” at FMQs.
Will we have to wait till the 12th July for a photo opportunity of Ruth with her new found best buddies in the lodge? Surely she wouldn’t miss an opportunity like that.
More clearly than ever before: it’s us or them. Pro-indy or anti-indy. For Scotland or against it. The constitution will be centre-stage for the next five years, unless brexit brings indy2 quicker.
Let’s hope an opposition MSP stands down, get’s scunnered and resigns, is caught stealing, crosses the floor, or chucks it in. That’s all it takes to alter the balance.
Now that looks more like it Chris!
Yesterday was tough in many ways, but it’s not for us to tell anyone how to vote any more than we’d allow them to tell us how to vote.
And in the end the difference between the result some of us wanted and what we got was slight in terms of the number of votes that the result hung on. And also a function of a system designed to stop us getting what we wanted.
We’re not in an ideal place now, but the place we are in is a good one for building on.
1. What we’ve been saying about “red tories” fell out in droves on BBC Shortbread as a fine number of ProudSLabbersBut outed themselves as having gone all proper blue tory. Listening to some of the justifying themselves was something. Oh how this will undermine so many residual SLabbers!
2. With all those Blue Tory MSPs, the principle foe is now prime of place to be attacked on all their grim ideas, no longer able to hide as a peripheral party of small import.
3. SLab looks usefully set to administer their own coup-de-grace in the coming months, with the UK head office intent on assisting by being no less clueless. Yesterday, the SNP didn’t beat SLab, they replaced them – and don’t underestimate the importance of that. It’s structural, won’t readily reverse and we’re the stronger for it, much so.
4. Pacific Quay is still overflowing with institutional SLabberism, what do they do now? Do they have the energy and broadcast time to as effectively hammer their trad enemy the the Blue Tories and do as much SNPBad? How can they prop up a poor 3rd place contender in chaos? And with Wee Willie’s brigade now in a derisory 5th, justifying air-time with the comedy light interlude they provided gets all the harder. I don’t know how they’ll handle any of this and won’t be with a pro-Indy bent, but it’s not what it was, things will change and the more confusion at PQ the better!
5. Democracy will out in the end and if there’s a good prospect of winning an IndyRef #2, I doubt the SNP and pro Indy Green contingent won’t force it. But if there isn’t a good prospect of winning, we’re better to carry on building strength and diminishing the opposition.
CRITICALLY
6. ca. 45% of Scottish voters didn’t vote at all on Thursday. In that context we’re gie daft getting all worked up about the way some some voted on the margins trying to jig a system that wasn’t having any of it. 45% didn’t vote …, if we can wake up a goodly number of them, there’s our overwhelming YES vote.
It’s not where we want to be this morning, but we are getting stronger and more of the elements we need to assist in reaching our goal are falling into place.
I did a quick mental calc across the total vote numbers, and it looks to me as though the absolute number of Yoon party votes is now only a smidgeon over the absolute number of those voting for pro-Indy parties. I know elections aren’t IndyRef votes and some will swap sides in an IndyRef vote, but it really looks like we’re sat very close to 50% YES and that’s from an election of millions, not the always-suspect polls.
It can’t come quick enough for any of us, but we are getting there. As above, circumstances are improving. This is not the time to be whacking each other over this or that, it’s time to get back up and carry on doing what we need to do in order to get us over the 50% and better. As high as we can get it, so that when circumstances can be forced there can be only one result.
Circumstance could be a Brexit vote, it might not be. We don’t know. But since it could be that soon, we need to be persuading our non-YES friends and neighbours. Not wasting time on the vagaries of the Holyrood election system and bashing each other. Our division is perhaps the last best hope of the Yoons – so don’t do it!
If Brexit doesn’t do it, we’ll need to be ousting the dregs from councils around the country this time next year – and we want to be getting that plan sorted now, whilst the yoons are inebriated on their delusion that they’ve just won something. We’ve stuff to do!
In the end, if we have the numbers, we will be listened to. We will make them listen. But we have got to get those numbers. There’s that 45% who didn’t vote last week to get stuck into for a start.
Let’s have ourselves a wee rest for a few days perhaps and then get at it!
The failure of UKIP to win any seats is definitely something we should also be celebrating.
Ruthie astride number 2 … shudder. Kezia will need to be careful she doesn’t hit Wullie on the way down, he thinks the Libdems are having a bounce and are on the way back up.
Nicola? She very nearly broke the D’hondt system for the 2nd time, there but for a few hundred well placed votes.
Ruthie said the first thing she is going for is the named person act, well screw her. Patrick Harvey got in on a 12 to 1 ratio of list v constituency vote. Our environmental minister needs to take him on and outgreen him.
The SNP constituency vote was greater than the combined Tory and Labour vote. We are the party of Scotland. Gloves off, round 2.Go get them Nicola.
Just some random thoughts after two days of sleep deprivation.
Between 2007 and 2011 the SNP and the Tories had, in Wee Eck and Auntie Bella, a pair of leaders who were intelligent enough to do deals which meant no loss of face.
Nicola is another intelligent politician but, the Tank Commander is a Tory idealist, She will not have the brains to bend and do deals – it will be her way or opposition. She will stamp her feet, shout No, and will harm the Tories for years, in the same way as all the naysayers in SLAB destroyed that party.
The SNP have, hitherto, been fighting on two fronts – against SLAB and the Tories, now, they are only fighting the Tories, and with Tory positions in the headlights, and under greater scrutiny, I can only see the SNP flourishing more and more.
With an overall SNP majority, it was easy enough to shout: “SNP Bad”. With consensus now required to get things done, shouting: “SNP Bad will” no longer work.
The public will soon notice, we are all out of step but the Tank Commander.
Pity the 2nd rate Pollster, getting it wrong again but laughing all the way to the bank, hadn’t explain to get more Greens, you get more Tories. Cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Good one Chris. It is now us versus the Tories, independence versus the unionists. This could act as a springboard helping us over the next 4-5 years to convince another block of people to back Indy. Also to encourage even more voter participation, that is a big thing.
Just heard Prof Curtice on radio shortbread saying that the reason that the SNP didn’t pick up the last seats on the list and get a majority was because the list vote dropped below 45% and the Greens rose above 6%
Luv a bloody duck.
He did however say that the Parliament is still pro-independence so the constitutional issue is still a defining part of Scottish politics.
Yes the snp voter support doesnt manifest itself in the ebc’s political audience participation . Manipulating lying barstewards.
Straight battle sounds good.
One thing that really is chewing me up is that though the Tories got the majority of their seats through that shambolic list system, over 500,000 of my fellow( Scots) actually voted for them. A party which oppressed the disabled, cut benefits to the children ,penalised people for having an extra room,gave hand outs to the well off, abandoned distressed parentless children to traffickers,bombed civilians in the Middle East,and now lauded in the media as the come back champions.
Truly,it makes me feel physically sick . No mercy Nicola .Ruthy and her minnions deserve none.
#Brian McHugh at 9:05 am
“Mr thms… we don’t need every opposition MSP… we only need two of them. ?”
and they might even be Tories..
Ruth bull.
Scottish Tory leader calls on Nicola Sturgeon to rule out second referendum
As a 78 year old who has wanted an independent Scotland all my life what right has this tory bull to deny me that right.
Nicola you have the backing of over a million behind you so start putting that tory bull in her place from the very start.
Hoss Mackintosh says:
7 May, 2016 at 8:58 am
“Onwards and upwards to an independent Republic of Scotland”
Republic. I like the sound of the word. It means people can live free, talk free, go or come, buy or sell, be drunk or sober, however they choose. Some words give you a feeling. Republic is one of those words that makes me tight in the throat – the same tightness a man gets when his baby takes his first step or his first baby shaves and makes his first sound as a man. Some words can give you a feeling that makes your heart warm. Republic is one of those words. (Davey Crockett (John Wayne) the Alamo, 1960)
Seconded Richardinho. (Thunbs up) 🙂
Now we get the media propaganda that another independence referendum has been knocked on the head and the UK/Establishment will not allow Scots to ever have another one.
The truth is that, under Scottish law, (and the terms of the Treaty, and both Acts, of Union), they cannot dictate legally those terms to Scotland.
Under both Acts of Union the English Kingdom agreed that the Scottish legal system would remain independent from that of the only other partner in the Treaty of Union.
The Scottish independent legal system is based upon the people of Scotland being legally sovereign and thus neither the current Royal Personage nor that Royal personage’s United Kingdom parliament can be sovereign.
The legal system of Her Majesty’s UK government has historically ruled that, “just by being sovereign a sovereign ruler cannot legally renounce their sovereignty”.
This was the legal reason that, in the 1688 Glorious Revolution, the Kingdom of England Parliament did not just abolish the monarchy but instead used a workaround that the Royals delegated their sovereignty to the Parliament of the three country Kingdom of England Parliament.
English/UK law therefore states that once being sovereign a sovereign power/person cannot legally give up their sovereignty. Then, in 1706/7, the English Parliament agreed Scottish Law had to remain independent because under Scottish law the people, not the monarch, were sovereign and thus could not legally give up their sovereignty.
The legal fact is that the UK parliament, under their own English legal system, cannot tell the people of Scotland they cannot hold a referendum if the legally sovereign people of Scotland decide they want to hold one.
Now, under Scottish law, we have a democratically elected Scottish Government and, if they have a mandate from the legally sovereign people of Scotland, no one can legally prevent them from holding a referendum.
There has always been an unwritten assumption by the United Kingdom Government that they have sovereignty over Scotland and Scots but it has never legally existed.
However, under their own written English/UK legal system they state that no one, being sovereign, is legally able to renounce their sovereignty and their retention of a legal Royal Head of State is sound proof of that legal fact.
Nicola so far out in front no-one can catch her..love it Chris.
And do you see those steep sides, even the clambering one won’t be able to reach!
Can’t wait to see RD and her frantically waving A4 sheets at FMQ’s…
Higly doubtful, but that would be funny Mr thms. LOL
Great cartoon.The SNP threshed all comers on Thursday.Not as soundly as last year,but a drubbing just the same.We no longer have a majority and the dynamic of the new parliament will be different to the old one.Thats not all bad because it puts an awful lot more pressure on the opposition.No,no,no,bad,bad,bad will look more silly and pathetic in the new parliament.
Labour/libdem will have to fully embrace federalism or disappear into obscurity.It could be that their active membership base is composed almost entirely of a handful of chiefs who want no truck with federalism because they think Holyrood should be an executive,not a government.
We need the Greens to make their commitment to indi clear and to the media. A united front at least on that issue as we did in the Yes campaign. We have wee Wullie with 5 msps telling the SNP they have no mandate. That is just so ridiculous.
At least 15% of our supporters didn’t get out of bed. That is disgraceful. The right wing English in Edinburgh got out of their beds. That’s the only change. They are a minority and I still think the Tories only carry 15% support in Scotland.
We got double their Msps on a tiny turnout. Patrick Harvie get round for tea with Nicola and commit to indi 2.
@Scott 9:23am
Well said. I believe the more Davidson rants on about indy2 the more it will help the independence cause. She has one of those girning faces and chalk-on-a-blackboard voices, if you see what I mean.
Our d’hondt system of PR gets a bad name because it confounds a clear majority. Paradoxically, I don’t think it’s a bad system, it just needs some adjustment. At present, its seems the impact is most poignant at the tipping point of an outright majority, and as a result, we have a “levelling” mechanism of the system deciding outcomes when it really needs curtailed to be influencing outcomes, not deciding them. I’m not sure, could the result be improved by simply reducing the number of list seats? Or would that just shuffle the point of controversy a couple of clicks up or down the spectrum?
Here’s another thought. If d’hondt style proportional representation is designed to safeguard the voice of the minority, shouldn’t we have a similar “levelling” mechanism to offset the impact and influence of unopposed and anti-democratic propaganda? Surely, if it makes so much sense to d’hondt our elections, doesn’t the same logic require us to “de-shite” our broadcasting airwaves?
Problem there would be how to physically quantify propaganda and assign it a value in terms of votes share or parliamentary seats. This democracy thing is a tough gig with so many people abusing it. Maybe we should just go with the flow of other countries before us and cut straight to blood thirsty open rebellion.
( I’m kidding about the open rebellion. Better say that. There could be passing Unionists here who always believe all they read in the newspapers).
Here’s a quick Wee quiz for you though.
1. Do you think the Greens will more likely or less likely to support Independence next parliamentary session after several months of pointless vilification from SNP supporters?
2. Is it just possible the low support for Rise reflected recognition amongst Rise supporters that the SNP x 2 message actually made as much sense to them as it did to SNP voters?
Answers on a postcard to the “THEY’RE ON OUR SIDE” competition. There will be a prize, but the d’hondt rules mean you won’t actually get it, just in case it upsets the losers who outnumber you.
Let’s get this in perspective. In 2007 we were 47 msps so we were 18 short of a majority. That’s why there was so much horse trading. Take out the presiding officer and we are 1 short. There will be no 2007 horse trading and it will involve very few msps. Labour rebels and the Greens for most things. We are a very, very big minority government.
Nice one Chris. 🙂
@Dave McEwan Hill 8:50am
You are spot on. Its taken 9 years to get rid of SLab. Its now time to aim at the Conservative and UNIONIST party. Wee Ruthy won’t be able to stop herself from winding up and creating more support for indepedence. We need to start by reaching out to the bits of Slab that still have a conscience.
As an aside I would love someone in the media to ask Miss Davidson how she intends to heal the divisions and appeal to supporters of Independence?
Breeks, in response to your quiz…
1. As Big Jock notes above you, It is imperative that the SNP pose the question of whether the Greens support Indy unequivically? They increased their support 10 fold from the Referendum. If they are genuine, then they need to prove it… or watch their support go the way of Labour.
2. RISE were never anything but a fringe, who were bigged up by the establishment media/bbc… they were not noteworthy of mention in the results of the election. Teeny minority.
We,ve had worse result’s (indy ref)& we coped with it. We’ll cope with this,as for our so called Indy allies they must be devestated TS/CF Rise,they should be on the Trapdoor wie Kezia.
A few well attended Indy Demonstrations DOES NOT their
Party Supporters MAKE when most of said supporters were Grassroot Indy supporters & Snp members. They,re Leaderships jumped the gun & will suffer the consequences ( obscurity ) never to be trusted again.
Idiots on F/Book pages advocating starting New Leftist Political Parties ( some people from the parties previously mentioned ) this would only have the effect of diluting any Indy votes in future elections as happened on Thurs 6th ( heres a collective name for any new parties MUPPETS ARE US ).
Cat amoungst the Pigeons here.
Should the SNP bring forward a bill to have FPTP in all future Scottish elections. Three/Four Unionist parties arguing against it, goes without saying Total Reform of the Scottish Electorial Commission.
Better heids on Wings than mine, what would the reaction be to a Public Petition on this subject ???.
Every week you suprise us Chris great toon.
@MajorBloodnok
That’s the way I see it. The Tories are now first at FMQs, it’s Davidson in the spotlight, not Lamont or Dugdale. And with 31 seats she is going to have to think being a credible party of opposition, not someone who can throw around “Pinocchio”.
And Dugdale – is she seriously going to side with Davidson, who could become the very obvious face of toxic Tories in Scotland?
Tories were a curiosity before in Scottish Holyrood politics, now they’re in the spotlight for the next 5 years. They can run, but they can’t hide. Do they support Cameron?
@Breeks,
As a former Labour voter I can tell you this much. My own political ideal is not entirely the SNP manifesto,but there is a much bigger game in town right now.
The freedom of a nation is the stakes, and as far as I am
concerned that overrides all other considerations.The SNP are committed to that very thing,whilst no one is entirely sure of the position other parties will adopt.
Already we are hearing of possible trade offs to gain support. That is party politics above independence.
Which to you is the bigger game? There is time for positioning and putting options to the electorate after independence, but not making your policy a bargaining chip to achieve that aim,or even for supporting it.
Nice one Chris.
Saving herself from falling deeper, Kezia balances herself precariously on wee Wullie’s head, further down the pit, crocodiles are snapping at David Coburns feet as he clings desperately to the “pigtails” of Willie wonky.
Come on guys, heads up, now we can attack the only real enemy left. Not long now till the planets align.
A nice celebratory cartoon for a Saturday morning!
And a very positive view of the future ….
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/7-ways-the-scottish-election-result-is-good-for-the-independence-movement/
…. brought to our attention by Tackety Beets @ 8:18
The more I think about it, the more I think the new political line which is a clear cut Scotland versus the Tories will be good for the Indy cause.
Labour were an impediment to progress, the toxic Tories representing the Union will be an asset!
Bob mack 9.21am. Those 500.000 who voted against us arent ‘scots’. Although some of them might call themselves that.
Ruthie want’s Nicola to rule out a second referendum. Message to Ruthie, don’t let that distant 2nd place go to your head, with 7 constituency seats you don’t set the agenda.
For those thinking that Ruthie is destined for great things doon sooth. Get a grip, even I can see she is a Tory pawn, a political lightweight. She will be used, abused and tossed aside by the Eton boys. At best she will end up in the House of Lards.
When we get our independence I wonder if they will throw all the Scottish lards out on their arses. Independence would be worth it just to see that.
My blue rinse neighbour was trying to wind me up yesterday. During the conversation she mentioned how nice it was to see Ruth Davidson turning up for the count with her sister. I’ll save giving her the vapours for another day.
galamcennalath… the delayed celebration election vicory. 🙂
…once the reality of SNP v Tory bout sinks in, the sky looks brighter.
Its probably similar to the reaction of Leicester City fans over this last week. 🙂
Interesting times folks. Euro vote? Possible GE with possibility of Boris in charge of Tories. Cameron wont survive Brexit and UK won’t survive Brexit.
We may just be on the presipice of a new Scotland. Remember the indi vote went up on a low turnout. The unionist vote is the Tories and libs. The soft Brits who stuck with Labour will now desert Labour and that’s our target group. Half the Tories in Scotland are landowners or posh English. Forget these Yoons.
Labour always acted as a buffer between SNP and Tories now SNP can have a real go at them and expose them for what they are, Cameron bowfing his praise of her is an excellent start. Next big project is take control of the councils.
Other reasons to be cheerful:
Tories being what they are, they will be more prone to Sewellitis and simple good old financial irregularity over the next five years. This would obviously reduce/remove the minority.
Once the penny drops, I expect some BLiS______d MSPs to finally give up on London Rule and come out on the Right Side.
And then we have Ruthie in the spotlight, relentlessly whining, “I’ll scweam and I’ll scweam and make mythelf thick!” And that one-string banjo playing “Rule out Indyref2!” Not a good look.
That should further polarise things in our favour. The Tories just can’t help being toxic and the FM will target her relentlessly to defend Cameron’s indefensible policies.
So who voted Tory? The Lardy Lairds, The Settlers, the Bowler Hats and a sprinkling of the Unthinking Selfish. Circle the wagons for The Union’s last stand.
And so now it’s simply Independistas V The Nasty Party, a crystal-clear choice.
now that i have slept on it, feeling really optimistic about this situation.
wee ruth having to defend the torys every Thursday. she will be more of a target in the labour supporting press. getting it from both ends. i think they call that hog or spit roasted.
bring it on. this is gonna work in our (Independence supporters) favor.
Tanktop being touted on Sky News as winner of the election. Eh?
‘When we get our independence I wonder if they will throw all the Scottish lards out on their arses.’
Lord Wallace has it all planned out.
https://archive.is/b6YXl
https://archive.is/bm200
Off Topic, but can anyone advise on how to get details of individual polling station results. Thanks.
Becoming the official opposition at Holyrood may be the easy bit for Ruth Davidson.
However when she attacks the Scottish Government’s policies, I hope that Nicola and the rest of the SNP MSPS at Holyrood continue not only to expose,but also force
Ruth Davidson to defend the detestable policies that she supports such as re-introducing tuition fees, prescription charges, tax cuts for the rich etc
Ronnie Anderson @ 9.51 Yes FPTP would help , However Labour & and the rest of the gang gifted us a voting system that can only be changed by Westminster , Yep better together feels great eh? .
Excellent cartoon Chris. Ruth Davidson is a coo coo in the nest and will show her true colours and the Tory mailed fist, she intends mugging the majority of scotlands people and selling us into permanent servitude to Londinium. That’s the Tory way, she will try to outdo the blessed Margaret to gain her place in history and seat at the trough.
Cameron and his thugs are the unacceptable face of the right wing which thatcher unleashed when she stated there is no such thing as society, selfishness and greed will be the measure of success, and Ruth has signed up to that policy.
Don’t worry about the Tories they will destroy themselves in pretty short order, then we’ll see where the yoons turn to then. Interesting times.
Well done SNP ESPECIALLY Stewart McMillan captured GREENOCK what a man!
The Daily Mail is touting Ruthie as the new Thatcher
I say , bring it on !! Nicola Sturgeon is more than capable of taking on the Tank Commander , I am so looking forward to FMQ . Now I have had time to think , and have stopped cursing the Greens for depriving us a majority , I actually think in the long run it will be good for us .Ruthie will have no where to run , she will have to constantly defend Westminster for their cuts , and there will be more of those to come . At least in the parliament we will know where we stand , it’s them and us .
@Brian McHugh
The Greens supported YES last time. If they need encouraged to support a YES next time, and I see no evidence they do, then encouragement, not vitriol seems to do the trick.
I totally agree that Rise were overblown by the media and ‘used’ as as a tool by the media to split the vote. But why the contempt for Rise when we all know it’s the media agitating for trouble? I seem to remember a certain Mr Grogan breaking away from Labour and trying to encourage Labour’s other Yes men to do likewise. He was a minority of one back then, but hasn’t he done enough to earn his seat on the YES bus?
What does the SNP expect those people who support independence but have issues with the SNP to do with themselves? Take up knitting and wait for the call for Indyref 2? Hold your nose while you vote SNP was the answer I got. I did. And you know what? I walked out the booth feeling like a cheap fraud. I had voted against my better judgement to return to office a dysfunctional arse hole and waste of space who turned his back on me when I needed help, but hey, the SNP x 2 brigade made me do it. What’s the point having principles if you can’t stand by them?
Gather together enough minorities, and hey presto, you have a majority. Stop pissing on them meantime all you SNP x 2 stripe corporals. Wise up and vent your frustrations on the media. It’s a target rich environment.
Nation status is all that matters…the rest is noise. The shape of the nation will be decided after it is achieved.
Why is nation status important – because a nation determines how it looks after it’s citizens. How we fit into the World we live in. Will we seek to cooperate or exert influence.
It you think the UK is the model of a good nation then you are probably a unionist.
We currently have to accept the UK model because we are outnumbered 10 to 1 and always will be. (The model of a decaying Empire pretending it still has influence. Where spend on force projection WMD is more important than the welfare of its own citizens)
I think we can do better, much better. However we will need to unite to beat a powerful state.
Try to put aside your rigid model for Scotland – trust the people ( and future generations)
Don’t anyone forget that we have been here before and made a decent job of it. There will also have been lessons learned from the previous minority government spell. The SNP have some excellent strategists so will be able to exploit situations as they arise. For starters, go for some of the more difficult legislation in the first year and see how much they are prepared to block with the threat of the council elections hanging over them.
Heard Robin Harper (remember him – Greens for NO convener) on GMS this a.m. Smug as ever and expecting wee Nicky to come begging for there support, hopefully they’ll have a long wait for a knock on their door.
One day away and the unionist media are back to what they do best – centre on London. Today it’s mayor day.
Breeks, I am not being Vitriolic. If the Greens and in particular Patrick Harvie have independence at the core of his/their ideals, then surely he/The Greens will have no issue with publically stating/reiterating the fact?
McHugh: “If the Greens and in particular Patrick Harvie have independence at the core of his/their ideals”
They don’t. That’s the justified fear. Harvie is quoted as being in two minds. the autonomy movement is a convenient band wagon on which to hitch their horse. Once in power it isn’t their prime concern.
I wait with interest to see what good they can do in discussion over the second round of a Land Reform bill.
The optimism is spreading. James Kelly …
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/scottish-election-snp-has-it-all-pro-independence-majority-dream-opposition-1558718
“Whatever the private feelings of Patrick Harvie and other Green leaders, it seems inconceivable that the rank and file would allow any firm SNP proposal for a second referendum – in the event of Brexit, for example – to be thwarted.”
The easiest way to understand D’Hondt is to simply imagine starting from a single seat and adding extras. The first confusion comes in with the divisor by (N+1). All that does is imagine the average number of votes per seat each party would have if they go that seat. If you simply do that from 1 seat then the result is always proportional. At each round it finds the largest number such that when you divide the number of votes cast for a party and throw away the remainder you get the number of seats they get. There’s three main methods of rounding up, down and to nearest whole number.
The reason this method is used in Holyrood is because you can start with some seats already allocated. In a pure form you’d start with setting the seat quota at total votes divided by number of seats , dish out seats on that basis then add more till you’ve given them all out. In our AMS you do the first allocations based on FPTP and go on from there.
This is where the complications and potential misunderstanding comes in. The target distribution is the list vote. It’s only broken if you get more seats in a region than you would if there were no FPTP seats. Despite all the harping on about it that didn’t happen in NE. The only places where that might is where a party that won constituencies didn’t get list seats. A wrong assumption is that you need a clean sweep to do that. For one thing a particularly popular local candidate could win in a constituency despite getting nowhere on the list.
A further point is that different regional turn outs make a nonsense of national polls. Arguably it wouldn’t be fair to have a single Scotland wide list as that would prefer opinion from places with high turn out which on an given election might simply be down to local weather. Acts of God are not a sound basis for deciding how to run a country. So the present 8 regions is justified.
Papadox: “Well done SNP ESPECIALLY Stewart McMillan captured GREENOCK what a man!”
A timely reminder! Scotland did well despite anxieties of voter torpor and inertia.
Here you go, all those Greeners. Greens demand move on tax to prop up Nicola. Instead of Greens demand FFA and control over spending. Paying higher taxes for Westminster policies. The Greens do not support CCS.
Trident/illegal wars, tax evasion and loan repayments on money not borrowed or spent in Scotland. No Oil sector (with no alternative). The Tories have ruined it with high taxes. Losing thousands of jobs. Putting up balance of payments and imports.
160,000 votes 6 MSP’s.
31Tories. Labour out.
Maybe the people who support FFA/Independence should just make it easy and support the SNP. Instead of constantly shooting themselves in the foot. Maybe they should put personal issues aside and look at the bigger picture.
The Independence vote is up. The vote for the Union is stagnant. The youngsters are coming on board.
D’Hondt really stinks. You can just picture Dewar and chums trying to pick a way of making sure Westminster stays in control of Scotland, no matter what we vote.
LibDem Lords on the BBC election thing with Glen Campbell, raging away at us and ref 2’s anti democratic were utterly repellent.
“We must keep control of our scrounger regions like Scotland Donald. Its for their own good you see.”
@GrahamB 10:51am
Agreed. The SNP can send up a few kites to gauge the reaction. There is absolutely no reason to ask for any formal alliance with the Greens. Meanwhile Ruthie will be ranting and screamimg about indyRef2, slowly squirming into a dirty-blue mush of political impotance. The constitution will still be paramount.
So what now for all those Labour voters, who have continued to believe that the SNP was about to implode any minute now, and Labour was about to rise again like a phoenix?
Surely now these people will see that the Labour Party in Scotland won’t protect them against the Tories and the only way to ensure the best interests of their own community or Scotland as a whole, is by looking to the SNP.
There is no doubt that the Labour Party was able to hold on to power for so long in Scotland, because they used the ‘We are the only party that can protect Scots from the Tories’ campaign strategy, and it worked!
Now it’s time for the SNP to use the same strategy to hoover up all those voters from the poorer communities who see it’s the SNP versus the Tories.
SLAB were the British Establishment in sheep’s clothing. Having them out of the way clears the waters considerably.
The British Broadcasting Corp in Scotland probably won’t bother too much about promoting ‘the working man’s’ front party now. Already we have had Kaye Adams saying ‘we, uhmm the conservative party’, which is more likely to open eyes than when a ‘we’ slip referred to Slab.
I haven’t had time yet to read the column so sorry if I repeat anything. Great cartoon Chris, shows Nicola where she should be, heid and shooders abin the ithers.
I didn’t comment yesterday, but I started to read wings and had to give up. I wasn’t sure how I felt when I got up and saw the results of the elections, but some of the wingers were in bad cut.
Having thought things through, I feel reasonably upbeat about it today. There’s no point in blaming others about voting green, rise or whatever. It’s their vote to do with as they wish. Sure I wish things had turned out differently, but, we are where we are, and now have to get on with it.
Okay, maybe the next indy ref is further down the road. But it was not us harping on about indyref 2, that was the big gun commander. She used it and turned the election into them and us. Fine, that’s where we are now front and centre. Tories versus Scotland, work to be done boys, but nobody said it was going to be easy.
As for SLAB, well they are finished, unless lurking somewhere amongst the debris there is some soul with some common sense. I see that they are blaming Corbyn and standing with the tories. Really what has killed them in Scotland is their sense of entitlement and their visceral hatred of the SNP. There was never much really between them when SLAB used to have policies. But they could never bring themselves to work with the SNP. If it was SLAB’s idea it was good, if the SNP had the very same idea it was bad. The badest bad you had ever seen. Willie Bain, step forward.
So until SLAB learn to take the blame and pick which side they are on, union or independence, they will never get anywhere.
Just been informed by someone who was a “runner” at the count at Inglston that they were witness to the opening of one of the postal vote boxes for Edinburgh Central. Apparently this box was opened between 3 and 4 am and every single vote contained therein was for Conservative (600 votes)
Is it just me that can smell shite!
@ RT
‘Mayor of London’
The bigots are coming out.
Victory Day in Red Square. 26Million Russians died protecting the West. 11WW.
Looking forward to FMQs, the sneering bulldog getting put in its place
That’s correct Ken. If the rest of us jumped ship at every Snp policy we disagreed with. There would be a collection of wee powerless parties getting thumped by unionists. Independence is more important that who sits where at Holyrood.
Look at Sillars and Sheridan. They just shout from the sidelines and try and rabble rouse. Pragmatism gets you what you desire even if it kills you sometimes.
The Futures Bright the Future’s….
‘PM….’The Pug Whisperer’…LOL….offer her a tv presenters job…’
‘Is there still that vacancy at Animal Rescue ?…..There a spot needing filled on ‘Flog It’,you know the one,…..flogging butchers aprons c/w matching oven gloves….bid up tv,I think….oh Lady M,got that one’
‘I mean she doesn’t even ‘do it’ side saddle…what kind of example to the kids is that….okay,okay offer her a cabinet post,run it past Boris first though….’
‘The other one….the long haired fat one’
‘He’s on a slow boat to China,another series of Coast’
Thanks Chris :-))
Great cartoon as usual sums up the situation perfectly and with humour, Steve Bell eat your heart out.
A few thoughts;
We are 2 by-elections away from a majority – all SNP MSPs need to be whiter than white.
The Greens have been given a chance and they had better not blow it.
Annoyed at the Greens standing in tight constituencies which eg allowed Ruth to get in, a bit like Mundell in the borders.
Although is of course their right to do so.
Lastly RISE are a annoying bunch of noisy amateurs who will not be going quietly and are still getting too much air time IMO.
Completely different from Alan Grogan who was smart intelligent and knew how to make a left case for indy – has he not left RISE anyway?
I thought the SNP had been beaten? I thought they’d lost their majority? If that’s so then why is Davidson insisting Sturgeon rule out a second referendum? Either it’s a bullying tactic that’s not going to work or it’s admission that she failed in her own bid to put it out of reach for the next five years.
Perhaps part of the problem might be that we now have two parties elected on variations of the same principle. The trigger for a second referendum will be public support. Brexit by itself might not change public opinion so it’s only a possible trigger. However it might lead to attempts to change the goalposts as it were that might me it harder for an independence referendum to pass.
If Holyrood introduced a sufficiently robust and realistically achievable method of the public registering support for a second referendum the “unionist” parties would be fucked. The SNP could get on with running the country.
The only thing that can save labour is Mhairi Black joining them and leading them out of the wilderness to the promised land of independence.
In other words they are royally screwed.
As for Ruthie as the next Thatcher. Pity the record didn’t come up with that idea last week, they should be encouraged. I mean a Scottish Thatcher, sure winner, go for it yah muppets!
Thought John Swinney wiped the floor with Jackie Bird
yesterday. Was great to watch.
Now it’s time for the SNP to use the same strategy to hoover up all those voters from the poorer communities who see it’s the SNP versus the Tories.
Already happened? Labour voters are now SNP, like me, last time for Blair and Brown in 97, things can only get better, better, better for you!
What a legacy for likes of Brown and Darling, sorry Baron Darling of Larouchee.
Clearly wealthy middle and upper middle class Scotland, with 400,000 English demographic that call Scotland home, voted Tory and NO again. What is interesting is how many Labour votes Ruth got.
Tactically, yoonsters like the tories and the Libem’s can target a few safe ish seats, win, then tory BBC tory media goes apeshit with the triumph of UKOK unionism.
Coupled with The Vow fraud, this could go on for ever.
Then there’s the Green wild card, again targeting soft SNP slots, pushing back independence, again.
SLab losing votes permanently to Ruth?
Can Sturgeon survive another 5 years of BBC led UKOK media SNP bad monstering?
@Brian McHugh
Breeks, I am not being Vitriolic. If the Greens and in particular Patrick Harvie have independence at the core of his/their ideals, then surely he/The Greens will have no issue with publically stating/reiterating the fact?
Brian, to begin with, this is not a pop at you, but at the wider community who openly want such declarations. Not only is this desire a mistake. It is utterly foolish.
If I remember rightly, Jackie Bird spoke to Andy Wightman last night about the issues of Independence and a 2nd Referendum. Andy more or less acknowledged that the Greens do fall on that side of the fence. However, like Nicola, they won’t be drawn on it, and will only back a 2nd Referendum when the circumstances demand it.
This is the problem at the moment with many Nationalists. They are wanting hardcore commitments from the likes of Nicola and Patrick, even with some of the more impatient and bordering fanatical, demanding one right now!
Not only is this foolish, but the people who are advocating such ideas will hand the initiative to Ruth Davidson.
Just say Nicola and Patrick decide today to openly declare their intention of having a 2nd Referendum. And say all eyes are on the EU Referendum. What do you think is going to happen if the UK votes to stay in the EU? Ruth Davidson will absolutely bear-bait Nicola into having one immediately knowing full well that we will lose it. That is what is going to happen if we not only openly declare in having one, but will be forced into holding it right after the EU Referendum. If that happens. Game over for the next 20+ years! This is why Ruth is egging Nicola on at this moment in time. She wants Nicola to make a mistake.
This is political chess. You don’t state your intentions in how you are going to win the game. You keep your enemy guessing, and you get them frustrated! That way, you force your enemy into making mistakes of their own so it increases your chances of victory.
Seriously …folk need to get a grip on these demands for open declarations. Right now, both parties are playing it right. You keep your counsel to yourself, and let the events and circumstances when the time comes to influence the right moment to make that decision.
I believe that we, the Scottish electorate, should demand that we are represented in the Scottish Parliament only by Scottish political parties, not a few folk from UK parties pretending they’re separate Scottish parties.
Breeks says:
I totally agree that Rise were overblown by the media and ‘used’ as as a tool by the media to split the vote. But why the contempt for Rise when we all know it’s the media agitating for trouble?
utter guff, next you’ll be telling us that rise are all shape shifting aliens. get a grip folks
I have no problem with d’Hondt (although it woud be good to have the list candidates on the ballot).
The problem is the perception and the constant referring to the 2nd. vote as thoughit is a second preference. We really need to make the point from now until 2021 that it is the national vote. Even the first vote.
Two votes, one for national government and for local/constituency rep.
With the council elections coming up, the important message should be that you don;t have to rank all the candidates just the ones you like.
I feel sure that a lot of late round votes are from people who thought that they had to rank them all.
JLT, I only asked for confirmation of a previous/possibly current? Green policy of their stance on Independence? …as did Big Jock at 9:29am before me.
If the greens are having difficulty answering a simple straight question, then I would have concerns over that.
There are also red lights flashing, when your reply, is that my simple question is ‘foolish’?
Man, this is messed up JLT…
“This is the problem at the moment with many Nationalists. They are wanting hardcore commitments from the likes of Nicola and Patrick, even with some of the more impatient and bordering fanatical, demanding one right now!”
I could start with the obvious question… what is your definition/description of ‘Nationalism’? …is it a dictionary definition? Or something else?
Interesting to speculate where Labour go from here. This election was the final confirmation that their hard line unionist strategy over the last couple of decades has been an abject failure. The unionists within their ranks have gone to the Tories whilst the nationalists have gone to the SNP. This presumably leaves the remainder as simply hard core tribalist Labour supporters whose party affiliation may not be up for grabs but their ideology certainly is.
Which Labourite is going to parrot the unionist line with any sincerity or affection knowing what doing so has done to their party? Much more likely is that what remains of the Labour party will tone done the Brit-Nat sentiments significantly and move much closer to the independence camp.
That’s my prediction.
Secondly JLT… now that I have had a cheese sanny… lets simplify it a little.
Would the Greens vote against a second Referendum, should the opportunity present itself within the duration of the next parliament?
the tories did well, they got out their vote, even got a few hard unionists from slab to vote for them but talk of a tory revival in scotland are premature. rumours of their ressurection are greatly exagerated. the numbers say something different
2015 tory 434,097 2016 tory 501,844
watching ruth bouncing about on our tv screens, with a near hysterical smile, like an evangelical spacehopper who believes in the second coming. She will lap up the sycophantic ramblings of the yoon media and will start to believe her own hype as will her own supporters. She might start to believe it is a good idea to ask tory lords to come back to scotland and lecture the peasants again, appear in public with a hoard of old etonians, campaign for a statue of thatcher to be erected in glasgow….
there is no limit to the idiocies the tories might now imagine are a good idea.
i predict that very soon, the space hopper will develop a puncture and ruth will look more like “spoilt bastard”
Ruth Davidson’s campaign was all about saying no to a second referendum. She lost. Big time.
Shouldn’t she respect the will of the Scottish people and now shut up?
This is my final contribution to the debate in here abut the electoral system.
My question to people is this: Do you only want a system that can ensure YOUR party is granted a majority (irrespective of the popular support) or do you want a Parliament that as far as it can, reflected the wishes of the country? Because you can’t have both.
Look at Westminster. We complained like mad when the SNP were underrepresented because of the FPTP system, until we broke through last year and got 95% of MPs on 50% of the vote. Is THAT a fair representation of the Scottish voting public?
The electoral system for Holyrood was designed (by Lab and LD) to effectively prevent majority government. Setting the politicing aside, IF the system creates a Parliament that more closely resembles the wishes of the electorate, isn’t that a good thing?
So what happened on Thursday? Taking the constituency vote into account only for now. This is the equivalent of Westminster, the system most people consider unjust. The SNP gathered 46.5% of the vote but they won 81% of MSPs. Do we consider that fair?
So d’Hondt tries to address that inequality through the AMS. Again looking at the percentage vote on the constituencies we find:
SNP: 46.5% (%age of final MSPs: 48.8%)
Cons: 22% (24%)
Lab: 22.6% (18.6%)
Green: 6.6% (4.6%)
LibDem: 5.2% (3.9%)
Without the AMS we would have a grossly inequitable Parliament.
Or do we only want something when it suits us – are we REALLY just like the pro-Westminster parties at heart? I’d like to think not
The PR system is flawed. How are so many Tories getting minuscule votes (pro rata) getting seats in the list. Yet thousands of SNP list votes are being ignored. The NE is being represented by a bunch of Tories who got hardly any votes.
Noel Chidwick
‘Miss Trunchbull has no mandate to block second referendum’
🙂
I actually think the result is excellent. The unionists will coalesce now round the Tories (who only got 20% of the vote), Labour will not provide cover whenever there is another referendum and the Lib Dems pushed into 5th place. A minority government will have to sharpen up its act and that’s all to the good.
My only disappointment is that more people did not vote SNP/Green. If I take my region, NE Scotland, 138,000 votes on the list for the SNP achieved a big fat zero other than letting 4 conservatives, 2 Labour and one Lib Dem ( the most annoying aspect) get into Holyrood with 130,000 votes between them. There is a bigger picture than the SNP and though I am a member we are not going to achieve 60% support in the polls for an independent Scotland by infighting.
It matters not one iota at the moment whether the SNP or the Greens support having a second referendum, it isn’t going to happen as long as polls show we are unlikely to win. A second referendum where we lose would be disastrous. I would hope that when Nicola sets up her group to work on increasing support for independence it’s not purely an SNP road show.
Great cartoon Chris.
Nicola introduces her team
http://www.snp.org/live
I am sorry, but I am pessimistic – it’s all really just a bit too depressing. can’t be arsed with this onwards and upwards business when the goalposts are forever moving. The axis of evil is just too big. We’re aw doomed!
Life used to be simple – get a majority of SNP westminster mps and there you go – independence. so we get 56 out of 59 and we still have no mandate? Over a million votes and we have no ‘majority’ ergo no mandate? WTF?
Logic has gone out the window. Doublespeak is de rigeur.
There. Just thought I’d get that out my system. Feeling better now.
Tony Little
The system would be fine if
1. People understood how it worked
2. If the opposition didn’t just oppose everything.
3. If all parties at Holyrood were Scottish parties.
Daily Heil front page, Ruth’s win is “The Roar of middle Scotland”
Daily Guardian “peak SNP looks as if it has passed.”
Actual facts and stats mean nothing much at all to teamGB politicos.
Prof Curtice in UK
CON 30%
LAB 31%
LD 15%
UKIP 12%
OTH 12%
With D’Hondt giving seats back to losers
SNP – 63
Con – 31
Lab – 15
Green – 6
Lib Dem – 5
Constituency election reuslt
SNP – 59
Con – 7
Lab – 3
Green – 0
Since 2014 referendum, SNP poll share’s risen
Why rancid The Graun thinks SNP has peaked, is my teamGB mystery of day.
I am so cheered up by the change in tone on here after yesterday’s doom and gloom. Look at Chris’s cartoon. Nicola is the WINNER; wee Ruthless is the LOSER. After 2014 we all should have realised that this is a long clever game, not a self-destruct affair.
In Nicola’s WINNER’S speech she talked about persuading and patience. Compare that with the manipulating bullying bawling of RD – [not of the Tory Party it seems!] That Thatcher/Tory penny will drop quite soon I think to many of her supporters.
It is well known that so many more people than Wingers read this blog. Offensive remarks towards the elderly, the English, the Greens, RISE, and others will put backs up and they will never be won over. Bile is not a vote winner. Standing outside the polls, at Branch meetings, I would not describe the average age of activists as anything else but 45 – 70. They have been with the SNP for years. A large numbers are English. Most people have a wide spectrum of ideas on many issues; politics included. The biggest bore is the bigot. [think Ruth]
Remember too FMQs are questions asked of the FM. Not the other way around. Nicola will have to be very clever to turn these questions around to attack and expose the Tank Commander as a follower of the Cameron/Osborne horror show.
We have almost a majority government. Just 2 away. It will be very difficult for Kezia’s Crew to publicly join forces with RD’s Tories against the SNP in all votes. Some of them surely [not Ken Maclintosh] will have learned the lesson from BT. Surely?
I am hopeful and watching John Swinney roast the Bird was a joy. Where do the Labour entrenched PQ go now? Their heads must be birling.
This was a great result in my opinion. The SNP will have to work with the Greens, just like in the referendum, which will rally YES supporters together again. If SNP had won a majority, then they could have stopped listening to the grassroots, the greens and the yes movement, and become a bit smug and complacent. This result means they will now have to listen and co-operate.
The tories and ruth will be exposed every week and will have to defend their record at Westminster. FMQ will be entertaining! The referendum can still take place at the right time for a win and Labour will have to think long and hard about why they exist. It is all good.
The Independence movement is maturing and winning. Get out of the pessimism and back to a positive state of mind. This is the key for attracting more people to the yes cause and rallying people together again. Be the positive YES again.
Great cartoon again Chris, you never fail to hit the right note.
On reflection over the result, I do think that there is an opportunity here to get really under the skin of the Tories.
We have all the ammunition, we have the facts and the truths.
That makes us strong and dangerous to the Tory cabal, despite their media spin.
What we do need however is constant attacks on the Tory agenda’s, that is where all the Indy bloggs and social media should be concentrating relentlessly.
We need to vilify the Tories to the maximum.
What happened to Slab, we want to happen to them.
As ever, the Ukok media is our outright,adversary.
The SNP MUST take this up if we are to continue with our agenda.
Also, they have to be much more combative in keeping our aims in sight. Good governance, yes of course they need to do that. But should never miss a chance to point out how Scotland is being cheated and yes, abused.
Onward we go.
Roland Smith says
I would hope that when Nicola sets up her group to work on increasing support for independence it’s not purely an SNP road show.
Ruby replies
Why not? What would be wrong with the other Independence supporting parties setting up their own roadshow?
@Ruby
I can’t disagree with your three points, but the question remains, is the system better or worse than FPTP, which some posters here seem to want to return to. The SNP is actually for changing to a wholly PR system (i.e. dropping the FPTP constituency element). This would undoubtedly result in far more likelihood of coalitions than now.
The system, as I tried to demonstrate, is FAR more equitable than FPTP would be. Do we want this or not? I hope we prefer it to Westminster’s antiquated system, irrespective of whether we can ‘game’ it to our advantage.
@Ken500
You really don’t have a fucking clue how the voting system works do you?
Even if you add the list and constituency votes together the result would be a combined percentage for the SNP and Greens of less than 50%. If Scotland had been treated as a whole then the result would have been far closer to the proportional result. So close that any potential SNP/Green alliance would have less than half of the seats. So no pro indy majority.
Even if the had more than half combined the SNP would still not have a majority. As an additional bonus there would be more Lib Dems and probably at least on UKIPer. Fan daby dozi.
The current make up is about right for Scotland as a whole. It might even be far better for future independence having a second party reliant on public support should they go against it in order to prevent another referendum. Combined pro-indy support is arguably higher than at the referendum. And it really can’t be contested that the voters were fooled into giving that support as Davidson made sure they knew.
Since 2014, SNP poll share goes up, Slab’s terminal decline, tory little change.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Parliament_election,_2016#/media/File:Scottish_regional_opinion_polling_2014-2016.png
May 2015, 56 SNP Westminster MP’s, 3 yoonsters, May 2014 landslide SNP Holyrood win May 5, poll of polls SNP at least double yoon,
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2016-scotland-36227709
Why is tory BBC Scotland raging no more referendum at us?
Great cartoon and it shows the result pretty accurately.
Just gone through the results for constituency and list for 3 regions with a calculator and what strikes me as a rank amateur is this:
1. SNP vote up percentage-wise in Yes areas compared to 2011.
2. SNP vote down in Tory/LibDem areas that voted No in Indyref.
3. A small number of Labour (typically a few hundred in each constituency) maybe switched to Tory, but we dont really know. It might be a combination of Labour not turning out, Labour who have joined Yes since 2011 and gone SNP this time round, plus Tories voting out who didnt previously vote at Scottish Parliament elections but have now realised whats at stake.
4. Clear tactical voting in constituency by Unionists. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didnt.
5. The disparity between SNP List vote and Constituency vote is likely to be partly Greens voting SNP at constituency, and partly vice versa. We dont know the proportion of the traffic either way, but an overwhelming majority of SNP voters did SNPx2.
6. Edinburgh Central is a cock up but thats democracy for you.
7. Just unfortunate we narrowly missed out on a couple of constituencies, thats democracy.
8. Large numbers of Yes and GE15 SNP voters couldnt be arsed turning out.
9. The way to completely break the d’Hondt system is for all voters of the biggest party to all use their list vote for a list-only second party who shares their aims. Politics being what it is, thats never going to happen.
10. Orkney totally does my head in.
1-5 look like a re-run of the Referendum. I welcome that, because now we have cleared the decks for the continuing struggle, and the SNP are in power for 5 years!
We need to work on 8.
I dont even know why Im posting this, Im sure other people are far more qualified.
Noel Chadwick
Well said!
I believe the Tory vote was a protest vote, nevertheless it is enviable that the SNP would slump after nearly 10 years in power, and a undemocratic barrage of state propaganda.
The SNP need to get better at getting the message out. A couple of men run the print media in Scotland, none support the SNP, actually they hate us with every fibre of their being. The fact the SNP actually have done so well is the competence of the government, this minuscule minority is a fantastic opportunity to widen the independence campaign, by bringing in greens, even some labour we show we are the national party, the natural leaders of Scotland, Ruth can’t hide now, she is front and centre the apologist for a right wing Tory party, soon to have a new leader, likely to be more hostile to Scotland.
All we have is the National, and that is not enough, not nearly enough. I Scot is good but it’s a magazine format. Something has to change, we can’t have the constant propaganda telling lies day in day out. In Westminster funnily we have a less hostile press, at least compared to Scotland.
This election has resulted in the best of both worlds, it has demonstrated the bedrock of yes support in the SNP has crystallised. That the actual votes cast for independence has continued to rise to under 2% of a majority from 45% at the referendum. That the unionists whatever colour have no vision, Ruth, as I have said for over a year has had one message, but just saying you are there to be a thorn in the side, is not a political movement, it’s a occupation, she is the traffic warden of Holyrood. No vision no ideas just, a automaton, a spokeswoman for mr angry who doesn’t even know what he is angry about, in that his anger stems from some pish he read in a newspaper, that actually isn’t true.
10 years and the independence movement is still in the ascendancy, the labour movement in disarray, so incompetent they can’t even agree what to put in the manifesto days before the polls opened. Labour needs to have a good hard look at there opposition to independence, their visceral hatred of the SNP has blinded them to the opertunity of a completely independent Scottish party would bring them, if they can’t even think that, then that was the Labour Party that was.
Head on battles with the Torys is so much better than labour twisting the Westminster cuts as SNP cuts, we have just seen off the apologists for the Torys in England, now we face the beast head on, that’s a better fight that trying to argue against labour, the message can be clear now. It’s Westminster that is causing austerity.
Yes if you’re mathematically stopped from having it all your own way, the chips couldn’t have fallen better than this, and their is nothing we like better than being told we lost, when we know we won!
O/T
i was talking to someone and he said to a crazy yooon loon, no won you need to shut the f up about independence, he replied, you have to win every day to keep your union, we only have to win once to destroy it. Well the yooon loon went berserk, I knew the SNP were all Terrorists, and he actually said, we will need to get guns to fight you with, Scotland once the most educated country on the face of the earth, reduced to having the most lied to population outside north Korea
Well done Scottish journalism you must be so proud but, creating such stupidity.
JLT
From my understanding Nicola cannot rule out a referendum in this parliament and would have no reason or ability to do so. She is not sovereign- the people are.
I feel that it would not be sensible to hold one without a change of circumstances, and I also know (or think I know) that referendums are not binding in any case.
My question is- do you think that to clear the matter up for Ruth Davidson and allow us to move forward she should table a motion that the Scottish Parliament CAN call a referendum at a time of its choosing through the democratic chamber in Holyrood.
It seems like stating the bleedin obvious but it would clarify the green position and express the reality that we just had a democratic election and the majority of elected officials are pro-indy?
Great cartoon. Says it all very well.
Well done Chris!
Tony Little
Sorry Tony I’m not very well informed re voting systems I’ve only just gotten to grips with the D’Hondt system.
Having done a tiny bit of research I would say D’Hondt better than FTPT and PR better than D’Hondt.
Now that is a proper graph Chris! 🙂
Sleep does help, it’s the never ending never seeing who we voted for front and centre in our media that melts ma ice cream. I actually felt better after I watched Nana’s link of Nicola outside Bute House yesterday.
Think I overdosed on the BBC during the election coverage, it just seeps in: their constant diminishing of what was actually underway, the constant focus on the Tory/Labour fortunes…and the quiet fury built up throughout the night and morning into rage.
The BBC is really bad fur yer mental health. Exposure compromises composure.
The real players have come out of the shadows in Scotland. Let us focus our wrath where it deservedly belongs. Let us now set upon them on this last great battle for the soul of Scotland. We will not lie down, we will not retreat, we will not stand back and allow our people to be savaged by these toxic Blue Tories.
Do I think it’s astonishing that the Tories/Libdems achieved such a high number of votes in some constituencies whilst their vote share was almost non existent in others?
Does this indicate a ‘resurgent’ Tory/LIbdem element within our polity? Does it fuck.
They can promote the ‘narrative’ of a Tory resurgence in Scotland all they want, the numbers contradict this ruse.
The smaller players have been swept aside, Labour no more, RISE will factionalise, the Greens think they have some great ‘say’ because well, they’re the Greens and they think they’re aw that. The reality is it’s now all about the constitution, the sun has not set on Scotland’s Independence, we must make more hay while our sun shines.
Our time is coming, sooner rather than later. Huv a braw day everyone.
K1 says:
7 May, 2016 at 1:52 pm
The BBC is really bad fur yer mental health. Exposure compromises composure.
Ruby replies
It sounds to me as if you have been overdosing on the BBC.
Life without TV is great and you will be £150 richer every year.
What I would suggest is you just watch progs on i-player for example I just watched
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b0790k5p/reporting-scotland-06052016
not only was it free but I was able to fast forward when James Kelly was interviewed.
Won’t be long now before one of us SNP + SNP brigade will post that thank goodness the SNP didn’t get an overall majority and this is better. I can imagine their reasoning.
1). The SNP have been seen by many as far too arrogant for the boots for a long time now. They don’t listen, and they don’t even bother replying to their own members. Oh, check.
2). Scotland definitely isn’t a one-party state, it’s SNP and Tory basically. You’re either one, or the other. Hehehe. I admit that’s cheating.
3). If the SNP try to get support in Holyrood for a Refererndum Bill and don’t get it, it will be like 2007-2011 when the other parties denied democracy and were threfore labelled as anti-democratic. Roll on 2021.
4). If the SNP call for Indy Ref 2 and Westminster denies it, that will hack a lot of people off, and make 2021 a walkover for the SNP in the elections.
5). The SNP can now put Independence and Indy Ref 2 firmly back in their manifesto. They no longer have to play the balance between YES supporters and NO-voting SNP supporters. They can talk up Independence as much as they like.
6). Thinking about all that, I think it increases the chance of Indy Ref 2 being called for before 2021.
Thank goodness we didn’t get an overall majority SNP Government 🙂
Didn’t Blair McDougall admit that if “Better Together” had focused on making the case for the union, Yes would have won the referendum?
Making the case for the union is what the tank commander has led everyone to expect from her, so, bring it on, bullrider. I’ll be interested to hear how much applause you get from the labour members.
@ liz at 11.15
I think Allan Grogan was never in RISE; he wanted the SSP to remain separate, and has now resigned from them, rather than from RISE.
@ Jet Jockey at 10.25
No. The ballot boxes are taken from the polling stations to the count and mixed together before they are counted, possibly expressly so that results from an individual polling place cannot be identified.
The best you will get is an estimate; polling agents from the parties watch the contents of the boxes being tipped out and try to see a few of them to get a (possibly not representative) sample of the votes.
That is the source of any assertions that such and such a town voted Yes/SNP (combined with canvass returns, perhaps, though that relies on people telling the truth and on enough people being canvassed in the first place).
For that reason, I’m a bit surprised by the report that a box of postal votes in Edinburgh Central were all Tory; I suppose the count there may not have been conducted in the same way as the ones I’m used to, where postal votes were mixed with on-the-day ballots prior to being counted and there would be no way of telling whether they were distributed differently.
2011 – Unionists 75% Nationalists 25%
2014 – Unionists 55% Nationalists 45%
2016 – Unionists 52.5% Nationalists 47.5%
With the change in demographics, We will be free within 10 years.
This election has brought about some exposure.
There are more SNP MSP’s than the Tories, Labour and Liberals combined.
The Tories came second. This means that the Tories are exposed as they are the official opposition. Their views will therefore be much more public and visible. Ouch!
The Greens are also exposed as they are what prevents the majority government. In other words, what they decide on certain issues will be highly illuminated and in the public domain.
The little extra power that they have now becomes the trap door, because you have to be able to walk the walk, not just talk the talk.
It will be interesting to see what happens now.
How the Tories and the Greens behave will be very open to public scrutiny and can be examined.
Labour have the choice to die or to re-invent. Reinvention might be akin to a miracle.
The Lieb Dims have slipped to an embarrassing, but well deserved and irrelevant 5th place, brought about by their own actions. It must be hard to be an irrelevance.
The SNP know how to govern and have governed well over the last two terms. I am sure that they will continue to govern as best as they can. They know how to walk the walk and are used to exposure and all kinds of fabrications and downright lies from the MSM and some other politicians. None of the others have been subjected to this torrent of undeserved abuse.
Oh thank you Chris = )
That was pure soul’s ease xxx
Wait a minute Chris, does that mean this was wrong?..
https://twitter.com/johnmcternan/status/441959652742664192
@McTernan –
Labour hegemony is normal setting
Mmmwahhhhhhhh…… 🙂
Ruby
‘It sounds to me as if you have been overdosing on the BBC.’
K1 says:
‘Think I overdosed on the BBC during the election coverage, it just seeps in:’
I don’t watch tv Ruby, I did however watch the coverage via BBC on election night. I’m well aware of the withdrawing of the licence fee as a legitimate protest and a psychological must for one’s sanity.
Can I just very gently ‘suggest’ Ruby that you don’t ‘assume’ and then kinda ‘lecture’ others when you know nothing about them…and also just ‘read’ what they actually typed first, before jumping in with both feet, thanks so much 🙂
Like so many here I am heartbroken that the SNP didn’t get an easy majority government. For whatever reason.
But, do you know, I think history shows us that Scotland does best when her back is to the wall and the odds are stacked against us.
The people of Scotland have never shyed away from a difficult battle = )
We are strong. And we BELIEVE in Independence!
Onwards and upwards folks!!
I’m nae feart and I’m certainly not done yet! Nicola has just rolled up her sleeves. Watch out Ruth, you are well and truly in the firing line!
Great cartoon Chris.
Thanks for the link @ Ruby, nearly missed it.
Ffsakes… I laughted my head off! WTF was RD thinking, or rather trying to prove jumpin on that bull? Silly arse! I would’ve been sayin, “no way it’s boggin” – wouldn’t have done it for love nor money. I realised then what some of the earlier comments regarding her was about.. 🙂
Cu Tommy
I had the percentage figure closer by using both papers.
K1 says:
7 May, 2016 at 7:19 pm
Can I just very gently ‘suggest’ Ruby that you don’t ‘assume’ and then kinda ‘lecture’ others when you know nothing about them…and also just ‘read’ what they actually typed first, before jumping in with both feet, thanks so much 🙂
Ruby replies
What’s wrong with giving others a ‘lecture’?
You’ve just done it to me and I ain’t complaining.
I’m assuming everyone who watches live TV legally does buy a TV licence and that is fine as long as they don’t complain endlessly about the BBC. It gets boring!
If they do I will be giving them a ‘lecture’ and I might even suggest they ‘go to their room’ However in your incase I will be gentle! 🙂
Ruby, I didn’t lecture you at all, you didn’t ‘read’ what I actually said, which was that I had overdosed ‘during election coverage’, you then generalised from what you ‘assumed’ I ‘meant’ ergo the term ‘lecturing’ regarding the license etc.
Again you ‘assume’ that ‘everyone who watches live TV legally does buy a TV licence’. You don’t know what ‘everyone’s’ situation is regarding tv watching or not, as I stated I don’t watch tv.
By all means continue to base your assertions on your assumptions, but don’t expect that ‘everyone’ needs your ‘parenting’ and once again please do read what was actually stated?
You are jumping in with both feet because you aren’t ‘taking in’ the ‘context’ in which I state that I overdosed on the BBC. That’s not me lecturing, that’s fact. I ‘suggested’ you consider this, that’s not lecturing, and that’s precisely why I emphasised ‘suggest’ so that it was very clear that I was ‘asking’ you to consider the point I was making.
‘What’s wrong with giving others a ‘lecture’?’
Well if you had some point that was based on a correct reading of the comment you feel concerned or alarmed enough to get in to lecturing mode about then I suppose you could ‘justify’ the lecturing? On this occasion your ‘lecture’ was uncalled for.
It’s my opinion that people ‘in general’ don’t enjoy being ‘lectured’ at Ruby, by all means offer up opinions, that’s entirely different than ‘assumptions’ and then ‘lecturing’ on the basis of a skewed ‘reading’ of someone’s comment.
Just one last thing…if people ‘complain’ endlessly about the BBC on here and you get bored by that, then don’t read those posts. Also don’t hijack other people’s comments and utilise them as a springboard for your own ‘complaining’ endlessly about how you think others should stop complaining endlessly about the BBC.
See what I did there? 🙂 Have a gentle day ruby 😉
K1 says:
8 May, 2016 at 12:49 pm
Ruby, I didn’t lecture you at all, you didn’t ‘read’ what I actually said,
Ruby replies
Guilty as charged.
You left me a very long post so I’m going to have to leave it until later to ‘read’ it properly.
I promise I will ‘read’ it’s just that most of the time I am multi-tasking.
I’m busy at the moment trying to ‘gently’ persuade all the BBC fans on the other thread to stop giving money to the BBC.
They are all going on about what’s happening on the Andrew Neil, Andrew Marr & Gordon Brewer shows and I haven’t a clue what they are on about!
Watch iPlayer Ruby, ye can catch up then! 🙂