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Wings Over Scotland


The China Crisis

Posted on November 12, 2016 by

Even seasoned and cynical observers of the Scottish opposition and press such as ourselves, readers, have been rubbing our eyes in startled disbelief this week at the spectacular about-face performed by the aforementioned parties with regard to the Scottish Government’s £10bn Chinese investment “deal” that was never an actual deal, and which may or may not have collapsed.

But today’s Times just about boggled our minds completely.

timeschinaml

Well, who could disagree with that? Who would suggest otherwise?

After all, corruption is completely endemic in China. Trying to find a Chinese company wholly untouched by corruption to deal with would be like trying to find a Catholic in an Orange Lodge, and it rarely bothers other governments, such as the UK’s.

The thing is, the paper’s call for thoughts of corruption being sensibly put aside in the interests of Scotland might be just a smidgen more credible if the Times hadn’t been the newspaper that had run at least FOURTEEN previous articles savaging the SNP over one of the Chinese companies being possibly engaged in corrupt practices.

We thought we should pop them on the record for easy reference.

Sturgeon signed China deal without full check on corruption claims

Watchdog presses Sturgeon on China deal

China’s ethics not as black and white as its pandas

Sturgeon’s lips sealed on Chinese whispers

Sturgeon under pressure over China deal

SNP denies secret deal with China involving party donor

Help the SNP out and forget the £10 billion China investment deal

‘Shred £10bn Chinese deal’

Sturgeon is open to further trade deals with China

Questions on China deal

Souter revealed as go-between in Sturgeon’s Chinese deal

Chinese fury at ‘shambolic’ Scots

Chinese slam ‘Scottish shambles’ as secret deal is scrapped

Collapsed China deal shows SNP’s true colours

We wish we could be confident there wouldn’t be more to add in coming days.

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    1. winifred mccartney says:

      What I want to know however is why the MSM are not saying the same about the Chinese deals sealed in parts of England by Westminster. It seems to be only if a deal is in Scotland that there is a problem. Same with BBC, when Cameron meeting with very same company as Scotland met with it was hailed as wonderful but BBC Scotland went into overdrive about how bad it was. I know MSM and BBC hate Scotland and will stoop to any lengths but they have reached a new low. (What they are really saying is we cannot do without you -we have no-one else to rip off and nowhere else to go and play) Thankfully we Scots know what they are doing and just get stronger and more convinced Indy2 cannot come soon enough.

    2. dakk says:

      Vintage faux outrage and concern trolling from the Britnat Times’ Linklater there.

      Hypocrisy definitely has to be the Brits most treasured value.

    3. Andy Anderson says:

      I used to be a regular reader of the Times. Gave up for the reasons you have highlighted. Only read the National now. Rest lie to often.

    4. Ian McCubbin says:

      This clarifies the hypocrisy of the press. But the bigger issue here is we have in he SNP government, people who are trying in a corrupt world, to forge a path for Scotland. In this journey I believe the have the country and its people at the heart of any deal. So who do we try to trade within these troubled times. European funding for Scotland has dried up and Chinese have funds to invest in foreign ventures. It seemed sensible to want to invest with them.
      But when Theresa May signs a deal with China after Scottish deal falls through. It must be noted there is no out cry from UK press about this. It would seem she is acting in best interests for UK.
      This smacks of further hypocrisy and leads to conclusion SNP just bad.
      People here will wake up and my hope is independence by evolution like New Zealand achieved.
      If Denmark can thrive at the north end of biggest production country in Europe then Scotland definitely can as we have resources of oil, agriculture,fisheries and whisky.

    5. Grouse Beater says:

      I’ve lost count of British and European companies who pay up on request to Chinese ‘inspectors’ of their factories, Rolls Royce and every car manufacturer you can think of. They pay up or get the electricity to their factory turned off.

      They knew the culture before they relocated to China to sell their goods and increase their profit and pay packets. They prepared for the bribes in ‘contingency’ funds.

      Mr Linklater is another carpetbagger uncertain of his own abilities but keen to be seen as Renaissance man. The screenplay he gave me was trash.

    6. Effijy says:

      The level of hypocrisy and corruption with the UK media is absolutely stunning.

      They seem so happy and content that most of their readers
      will swallow these fantasy headlines and be upset with anything Scottish, before turning to the reason they bought the paper in the first place, the TV guide.

      Please God that there is only a very small proportion of their readers who are oh so gullible as to not notice how they distort the truth and attempt to alter history, when they completely contradict themselves.

      I treat UK newspapers with the same respect that I have for a piece of pre-war Nazi propaganda.

      I can’t listen or watch BBC Westminster propaganda broadcasts as it is all just too pathetic and distorted to even be considered.

      Every day they become more disenfranchised form ordinary working class people and from the Scottish nation in general.

    7. Arbroath1320 says:

      I wonder if this is not another excellent example of a poor bottom rung lackey thinking “I think we’ve over done it with the Sherry in all this anti SNP stuff of late might be good idea to re-dress the balance here.” 😀

      No? 😉

      Ach it was only a passing thought, I’ll try not to have another one today then … I’ll return to my normal Saturday fixture of counting flying pigs then. 😀

    8. Effijy says:

      I signed a petition against Westminster attempting to take Scotland out of the EU against our wishes, and our votes.
      Please see the ill-informed and ignorant reply below.

      They don’t want to recognise that more than 5% of No voters did so after Scaremongering threats that an independent Scotland would be ejected from the EU.

      They refuse to accept that the Brexit vote for Scotland to remain within the EU is current and trumps the older and now corrupt Indy Ref vote.

      The reply comes of course from a Tory Westminster government, of which Scotland has consistently voted against for over 60 years.

      Could a No voter oblige and tell me where Scotland’s priorities and preferences matter a jot to the Westminster Bully Boys?
      The Government has responded to the petition you signed – “A referendum to Vote Scotland out of the U.K.”.
      Government responded:
      The Government is committed to making a success of leaving the EU, together as one United Kingdom. In 2014 people in Scotland voted to remain part of the UK and that result should be respected.
      The United Kingdom will in due course be leaving the European Union and the UK Government is committed to making a success of this, together as one United Kingdom.
      In 2014, the Scottish people decided in a legal, fair and decisive referendum to remain a strong part of the UK. The Edinburgh Agreement of 2012 committed both the UK and Scottish Governments to respecting the outcome of the Scottish referendum.
      The Prime Minister has made clear her commitment to the United Kingdom and that she leads a government of the whole UK. The UK Government believes that the arguments for Scotland remaining a part of the UK are just as compelling as they have always been – for both Scotland and the rest of the UK. Our focus now should be on working together to secure the best deal for the whole of the UK.
      Scotland Office
      Click this link to view the response online:
      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/132687?reveal_response=yes
      The Petitions Committee will take a look at this petition and its response. They can press the government for action and gather evidence. If this petition reaches 100,000 signatures, the Committee will consider it for a debate.
      The Committee is made up of 11 MPs, from political parties in government and in opposition. It is entirely independent of the Government. Find out more about the Committee: https://petition.parliament.uk/help#petitions-committee
      Thanks,
      The Petitions team
      UK Government and Parliament

    9. Grouse Beater says:

      Roosevelt though Hitler could be persuaded, and Mussolini was a nice chap.

      Therefore, it’s only sensible to suck up to Trump and join in appeasement: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-b61

    10. Capella says:

      What Eric Linklater is saying is that Nicola Sturgeon should just shut up and kow tow to vulgar bullies around the world. I do hope she completely ignores his advice.

    11. Ken500 says:

      Just as well hardly any one reads the Times in Scotland. Times complete and utter nonsense. Murdoch – ex Chinese wife who tried to break Sky etc into the Chinese market. Failed because of trade barriers. Times complete and utter nonsense. Murdoch tax evading Non Dom. Might find problems in the US now. No walking in and out of the White House? Encouraging illegal wars etc. Trying to employ bias to influence US policy.

      A multimillionaire with various interests. Tries to influence Govs policies by direct and indirect means. Phone hacking and breaking inter net personal privacy rules. Murdoch Organisation was responsible for Tommy Sheridan’s prison sentence in Scotland because of a Murdoch employee lying and committing perjury in court and getting away with it in. Coulson – Cameron/Tory/ConDem Press officer.

      Murdoch had to become a US citizen in 1985, after living there since 1973, in order to make TV/Press acquisitions Criminally bribing public officials in the UK. A criminal offence in the US. In the US it is a criminal offence for any US company to bribe public officials, anywhere in the world. Ex first wife Ann from Glasgow with connection to Scotland. Now married to Jerry Hall. Mick Jagger’s ex wife/partner. The circles some tax evading non Dom move in.

      To have business interest in the US folk have to be US citizens. Unlike Tax evading Non Doms in the UK. Special status courtesy of the UK Gov who refuse to enforce the UK/EU tax Laws.

      The UK Gov unfairly tax the Oil and Gas industry at 40% (when the price had fallen) Losing thousand of jobs and £Billions in Scotland. Creating unemployment. No MSM Press report about that total lack of equality and business acumen by the UK Gov – Tories. Osbourne in particular. Damaging the Scottish economy. Just a superficial report of UK honour for failure. Increasing the North/South divide, chronic congestion in the south and damaging the UK/Scottish economy. Making people’s lives harder.

      The suggested compensation for Scotland is Brexit and a few hundred fishing jobs for migrants. The stocks are low because fishers overfished the sea, throwing back more catches, than was landed. There has to be conservation. What a dire situation.

      The Times biased and inaccurate reporting that is the norm for the Times/Murdoch Press. Compulsive biased liars,

    12. Ken500 says:

      Vote SNP/SNP May 2017. Vote for Independence.

    13. Thrawn says:

      Jesus wept…grow up and welcome to being a party of government. Challenging the SNP on doing potentail deals with corrupt businesses and then challenging them on letting a deal they were so keen on persuing despite that fall through for farcical reasons are not mutually exclusive.
      It is the opposition’s job to oppose (clues in the name moron) and I think the SNP are the last ones who should be preaching about hypocrisy by a party of opposition…for example saying they wont vote on English laws in Westminster…and then doing just that

    14. Bob Mack says:

      @Grouse beater,

      Chaimberlain———piece of paper——— peace in our time——Give Donald a chance?

    15. Dr Jim says:

      All good reasons as to why “Journalists” and newspapers don’t want to be actual politicians because they do have to answer at some point for what they said whereas nespapers never do

      Much easier to interfere and attempt to dictate politics by using the media to say what they like because they never put themselves up for election yet still demand to be heeded

      When the common voter uses social media to express his or her opinion the media discount this as valueless or have the bare faced temerity to accuse that section of society of lying

      The hypocricy of the media in all it’s forms is staggeringly wilful and yet in order to preserve itself supports the worst offenders of the perpetration of this modern day crime, a crime they have been accused of many times, found guilty many times yet here we are again bemoaning the criminal activities of, in particular the print media who let’s face it in some other countries would be at the very least imprisoned and in some others worse

      Freedom of speech they would squeal except when it comes to real freedom then they oppose it like it was a disease and call it unpleasant names used to describe something from the past folk used to find distasteful

      The media has been accused of being an Organ of the state which they always deny yet our TVs are awash with war documentaries of how the media was used to attempt brainwashing and the spreading of disinformation upon the enemies of that state
      The media answer “We don’t do it now though” huff puff blaw harrumph

      Anybody who believes anything written in a newspaper is either mentally irregular or has had a frontal lobotomy in their sleep and didn’t notice
      Even their own kind laugh at the crap they get away with printing yet still they demand we pay attention to their witterings, and if we don’t they’ll think up another bad name to label us with which is totally unacceptable to the previous mentally irregular brain dead who will see it as their Unionly duty to heaven and Britlyness to agree with them

      Even when they don’t

    16. Ken500 says:

      Magnus Linklater should try and give accurate account. It just might sell more papers and keep him in a job. Instead of critising successful people doing an excellent job. Take a leave out of his own book. Improve his performance before even more of the MSM Press goes to the gutter. Try to be more professional, instead of destroying his own industry and the privileges to be held in account it ensures.

      Not that any arrogant and ignorant unprofessional hack is likely to take some free advise or believe in bias.

      Vote SNP/SNP May. Vote for Independence.

    17. Capella says:

      Sorry – Magnus Linklater, Eric’s son!

    18. Dr Jim says:

      Right on cue we have another troll who didnae pay attention at the big school #awalkoff

    19. Proud Cybernat says:

      Obviously got a severe bump on the head, affecting his/her ability to read let alone understand. Must have got Thrawn aff a bus. Eejit troll.

    20. Scott says:

      Sorry OT.
      Willie who Rennie is supposed to say at his we band on Robert the Bruce.

      “Perhaps we should be inspired by his relationship with that famous spider. If at first you don’t succeed, try, try and try again. This is a Robert the Bruce moment for us.

      The next time he shouts about our FM speaking about another referendum she should throw this back in his face.

    21. Macart says:

      They truly are bottom feeders and Brexit has them running about like headless bloody chickens.

      A few short months ago the very idea of the Scottish Government attracting inward investment from the dastardly Chinese, the faux shock and horror was splashed across every title and broadcast over airwaves and through yer telly screens on a daily basis. So desperate are central government for trade of any description now, that their cackhanded monstering of the SG and frightening off of overseas investment has to be blamed on someone. That’ll be the Scottish Government then.

      So tell me, what happened to partnership, respect, leading from the front? What happened to working together to bring unity going forward? What happened to ‘better together’?

      The reality of the Scottish Government’s and the Scottish electorate’s treatment by the Westminster parliament and the UK media of the past two years doesn’t seem to bear out any of the above sound bite now does it.

      In fact their approach to ‘better togetherness’ in the past two years has been nothing short of entirely hypocritical and shameful.

      We were meant to be partners. A ‘family’ of nations.

      Do you treat partners or family the way the UK media and their chain tuggers treat us?

      Personally, I didn’t expect it to be anything else post indy vote and I dare say most regular readers of this site any many another indy site could say exactly the same. However, if you are a new reader. If you voted no last time out. If you were torn and simply hoped for a better settlement that never occurred. How do you like today’s UK? Austery and Brexit all rolled into one and Westminster politics in full on train wreck mode. A society massively divided along multiple lines and heading for an intolerant right wing nightmare. A political class set to remove your human rights and replace them ones a bit more favourable to … a few.

      With the treatment the Scottish public and their representation have received at the hands of Westminster and the UK media over the past two years, do you honestly expect matters to improve whilst our parliaments and politics are in union?

      The media and political parties of the UK will continue to treat the Scottish government and the Scottish electorate in this fashion regardless. One of the very few things left you can safely rely on right there. Along with, of course, that its not going to ‘get better’ without your intervention.

      If you’ve had enough by this point, the the YES movement could use a wee bit of help in setting the matter straight. Scotland’s government can’t make this stop without your help or your say so and your ‘say so’ WILL make the difference.

    22. David says:

      As someone said yesterday—SNP need to sharpen up their pencils a bit in response to this sort of stuff. If press won’t print their response then Take out adverts in press and the radio. It was not good enough for them to have no one on radio Scotland yesterday to challenge the Tory who had a free run at this subject. (Assisted by the BBC air head who was interviewing.

    23. ScottieDog says:

      This really makes me realise that we are on a one way trip to independence. I don’t mean that in some triumphalist sense as I think it’s going to be gruelling with many casualties on the way (in the metaphirocal sense)

      It wouldn’t matter if the SNP embraced neoliberalism. As long as a pro-independence party is in power in Scotland the MSM will seek to destroy Scotland. Elite Britain faces losing its energy security and it will fight dirty

    24. HandandShrimp says:

      I am not sure I am clear as to what Magnus is wanting Nicola to do. Is it that trade takes precedence over the behaviour of a country’s leader? Well OK that is fine, there any number of disreputable leaders out there that we could trade with but that doesn’t mean Merkel or May or Nicola should zip it if Trump grabs them by the pussy (or anyone else for that matter). One can trade and be critical of a politician.

      As it stands, Nicola was not as abusive as Ruth, Kezia or Boris about Trump prior to his election and consequently she is much better placed to continue with the line she has already taken. Boris and Ruth are in a different place.

    25. Thepnr says:

      Traditional journalism is dead. Where previously we might have expected unbiased and balanced reporting, that is obviously no longer the case.

      I don’t know if it’s the newspaper barons, lobbyists on behalf of corporate interests or political spin doctors working on behalf of the government to blame, it’s most likely a mix of them all.

      Look at the absolute hounding of immigrants and scroungers given massive prominence in both newspapers and television over the last few years. The headlines are HYSTERICAL as seen in the Express front page almost everyday. They even make entire television series about the scroungers.

      It’s all about control, they want the majority to despise the minority so as to introduce change to society. Change that will benefit them, only them and their right wing agenda. The media is used to soften up the peasants and the peasants fall for it, not even realising that they are transferring their freedoms and wealth to the elite.

      Scotland’s right to self determination is under attack constantly for the self same reason.

      The reason being simply that “they” can’t afford an Independent Scotland to upset their apple cart and expose their lies about…

      Everything really.

    26. galamcennalath says:

      Dark forces with fingers everywhere are pulling out all the stops to damage the SG/SNP/Nicola.

      They will use any story they can, or just make up one!

      They will fail because it’s not actually about the SG/SNP/Nicola, for more and more Scots it’s about who rules Scotland and what is its place in the world. SG/SNP/Nicola will facilitate the constitutional rearrangement, if we so desire, because they are a means not the end.

    27. Juteman says:

      The main problem is our home grown Brits. They know they aren’t real Englishmen/women, so they go the extra mile in doing down their part of North Britain to prove their loyalty.

      Look massa! Me know my place, boss! Can I lick your boots, boss?

    28. Thrawn says:

      @Juteman

      No the real problem is with pseudo-trumpian crypto-fascist fanationalists who see any criticism of thier beloved party and sainted leader as treason and as not “truly” scottish as per their own purity standards

      And Im sure the comments below won’t prove my point on this at all…

    29. Capella says:

      Complete ignoral. It’ll get bored and go away.

    30. Proud Cybernat says:

      Dear 2014 No Voter,

      A possible £10 billion trade deal between Scotland and China was bitterly and stupidly attacked by every Unionist party in the Scottish Parliament. Such a deal, were it to have come about, could have provided you and your children with work and put food on your table, a roof over your head.

      As a result of the faux hostility demonstrated by the Unionist parties in Holyrood, the Chinese, it would seem, have pulled out of the deal (this may or may not change).

      Now what we find this week is that every Unionist party in the Scottish Parliament (along with their compliant Unionist Media) complain to the SNP Government about the (supposed) collapse of the £10 billion investment trade deal with China–the very same deal they moaned about and attacked in the first place.

      That is what YOU are up against, 2014 No Voter. These Unionist parties who proclaim that we are “Better Together” are actively and deliberately seeking to undermine Scotland’s prospects at every turn, to take potential work from YOU and YOUR family, the food from YOUR table, the roof from over YOUR head. The Unionists are seeking to deliberately harm, not just Scotland, but YOU.

      The YES voters have known of the damage the Unionist parties are prepared to inflict upon Scotland–to inflict upon YOU in order to curry favour from their bosees in London. We have known this for a long time now and is precisely why many of us are YES voters. However, remove London from the picture and the Uninists in Holyrood will have no one to pander to–they will be forced into working for the better good of Scotland, of YOU.

      A NO vote in IndyRef#2 is a vote to allow these Unionists to continue to damage Scotland and, therefor, to damage YOU and YOUR children.

      IndyRef#2 – Vote YES to end the scorched earth madness of those Unionists who much prefer to harm YOU and YOUR family in their personal quest for an ermine cloak in London.

      A YES vote supports your NEED.
      A NO vote supports their GREED.

      The Home Wreckers

      http://imgur.com/JXZm5m0

      Indyref#2: Vote YES

    31. Thepnr says:

      This troll is fishing, DON’T TAKE THE BAIT.

    32. Auld Rock says:

      Linklater’s poor mother, a lifelong Nationalist, will be squirming in her grave over all the drivel her wayward son Magnus continually spouts. Magnus just opens his mouth and lets his belly rumble.

      Auld Rock

    33. Grouse Beater says:

      Capella: “Sorry – Magnus Linklater, Eric’s son!”

      Ha, ha! Didn’t think anybody would have heard of his Welsh-born dad. (He claimed he was Orcadian.) His children’s fantasy novel The Wind on the Moon is a superior read to JK’s stuff, dated as Eric’s work is these days.

      Was buying book gifts yestreen for the wee yins I care about and, checking JK’s shelves in Waterston’s, I heard a handsome woman behind me whisper, “Walk away. She’s got enough money and power as it is.”

      Good advice.

    34. Juteman says:

      @Thrawn.
      I mentioned no party.
      Get back under Waterloo Bridge.

    35. shug says:

      It sounds like Westminster and their minions are in full destroy the Scottish economy mode
      Expect the conservatives to do everything to remove money and investment in scotland
      THE HERALD and associated papers will provide supporting cover as required

    36. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      He’s just following the new Tory post-Brexit party line. UKOK needs Chinese money to keep on the road. If that can be promoted with a dunt to Nicola on the side, so be it, and to h*ll with consistency.

      This is not about news, it’s about HMG’s agenda. Orchestrated? You betcha!

      But it goes to prove how scared they are of Nicola, who is head and shoulders better than any of these Tory blunderers, who are staggering around in a darkness of their own making.

    37. Capella says:

      @ Grouse Beater – Eric Linklater is quite famous and widely regarded as Scottish.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Linklate

      Sadly, I haven’t read any of his writing but am encouraged to do that after reading the wiki entry.

      Oh for a Scottish broadcaster who could tell us about our own cultural heritage!

      Pity his son is such a pedant.

    38. Thepnr says:

      Corruption is not just confined to China. Corruption of journalists and politicians here in the UK is rife. Phone hacking scandal with police officers jailed for taking money from journalists who worked for Murdoch owner of the Times.

      Politicians accepting cash from lobbyists to ask questions that benefited some enterprise or other. Tony Blair taking vast sums of money from other corrupt dictators and Gordon Browns charity benefiting who exactly? What about Two Jags or Flipper Darling hmm?

      Mark Thatcher son of Maggie, remember him? From the Mirror this year.

      We may never learn the truth about “corrupt” deals involving Margaret Thatcher and her son Mark after another “establishment cover-up”.

      The National Archives are releasing hundreds of government records and notes of Cabinet meetings under the 30-year-rule, covering 1986 to 1988, the middle of Margaret Thatcher’s reign at No10.

      But two entitled “Cementation contract: Mark Thatcher and the Omanis” covering the period from 1981 to 1988 are listed as being “retained” for 65 years – meaning they will not be released until 2053 when Sir Mark would be aged 99.

      https://archive.is/uDwfK

      This is just the short end of the stick, most we will never hear about. The UK is corrupt and rotten to the core.

    39. Ken500 says:

      It has been alleged that Murdoch’s ex Chinese wife has secret meeting (an affair) with Tony Blair,a close associate. Tony Blair is the god father of one of Murdoch children. Murdoch ex son in law is a prominent Tory. Oh what we weave etc. To deceive.

      Murdoch accomodates employees going to prison to take the rapp for the Companies illegal practices. Employees take the fall for fall guy Murdoch. A close associate of Brexit Tories, Farague, Gove etc. Contributes to their campaign. other UK Unionists politicians who hold his back for any criminal activities.

      They want to extend their tax evading activities with impunity. The reason many want to leave the EU. With catastrophic fall out for the UK and the world economy.

    40. Dr Jim says:

      Like me. I’m sure most folk tried to teach their kids not to lie or there would be consequences for it
      It’s a bad thing to lie we taught them, we sent them to school where they were taught the same thing
      Don’t lie it’s bad and leads to a bad way of life

      But now when the press lie or politicians lie we’re told to grow up and accept that’s the way things are
      Almost in every instance we’re told this crap it comes from the people who lie the most, and being “grown up” is a justification for doing it
      So not only do the liars try to force us to accept and buy their lies they then patronise us by telling us we’re behaving like children when we don’t reject the teachings of our childhood to accept their abhorrant behaviour

      If we lie to the courts and get caught we get punished in various ways, so it would appear that what Unionists want is a seperate set of regulations to apply to them and them only but the rest of us children should be seen and not heard

      Or maybe not even seen

      There’s one other thing and it’s this, if Unionists think all the crap in the world they can throw at us will work they’re wrong, nothing they can say or do now will change that and because of that I will vote SNP till the end of time to stop them winning anything because that’s the power I’ve got and I’ll use it till hell freezes over

      And that’s no lie

    41. Grouse Beater says:

      A pseudo-trumpian crypto-fascist fanationalists walked into a bar one day.

      “A pint of Creme de Menth, barman”, he said. “And please accept these WoS lapel buttons in payment.”

      “You must be on of those crypto-fascist fanationalists” said the barman, adding “Your drink is on the house”, and proceeded to point the fanationalist to the rain filled gutters on the roof.

    42. Grouse Beater says:

      Capella: “Pity his son is such a pedant.”

      Out-classed and eclipsed by his dad, who was in his day out-classed and out-clipsed (my word) by Compton MacKenzie.

      Incidentally, some idiot gave some other idiot a load of money to remake the classic “Whisky Galore” this year. It tanked at the box office, withdrawn after three days. The director has nil sense of humour, timing, or drama. Why remake an Ealing classic?

    43. Bob Mack says:

      An opposition is just fine. It is when the opposition is criticising you for doing something whilst doing it themselves that is problematic. Then again maybe you can stretch your principles more than the average Joe.

    44. Thepnr says:

      History of corrupt son of Maggie, not Dave or Tony but real son Mark.

      1971: Leaves Harrow with three O-levels before getting a job in The City. Quits after flunking his accountancy exams three times.

      1982: Lost for six days in the Sahara during the Paris-Dakar rally.

      1984: Moves to US after Omani scandal.

      1985: Row over claims he made fortune on arms deal signed by mother.

      2005: Given four-year suspended jail term for his involvement in a failed coup in Equatorial Guinea.

      2008: Weds Sarah Jane Russell, Viscountess Rothermere. They split time between Marbella and luxury £3.2million villa in Barbados.

      Chip off the old block. What.

    45. Maybe we have slipped into a parallel universe where the signing of the MoU was never actually criticised by Davidson, Dugdale, Rennie or the unionist press. Then again, maybe if my auntie had had balls she would have been my uncle.

    46. T.roz says:

      Exactly Rev, startled disbelief. I wish the whole of scotland could see this.

    47. Capella says:

      @ Grouse Beater – I’ve just bought “Magnus Merriman” Kindle edition. I’ll give it a try – seems quite autobiographical, including standing for the National Party in East Fife.

      Might have been a better contemporary film than Whiskey Galore!

      Pity his son is prig as well as a pedant.

    48. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Not going to provide link to ‘her’ blog, but if you go to WOS Twitter and scroll down a wee bit (to approx 2 hours ago) you’ll find what is quite possibly the most revolting tweet ever written by ‘Effie Deans’.

      Ponder the mind-set required to write such filth.

      We’re dealing with actual sociopaths here…

      🙁

    49. galamcennalath says:

      Juteman says:

      The main problem is our home grown Brits. They know they aren’t real Englishmen/women, so they go the extra mile in doing down their part of North Britain to prove their loyalty.

      Look massa! Me know my place, boss! Can I lick your boots, boss?

      …that ellusive quest of every Scottish BritNat, to be one of the metropolitan elite, to be acceptable and accepted.

      They are like the uncool kid who is desperate to be one of the cool kids.

      They believe if they mimic the behaviour of the cool kids, they will be accepted into the cool group. The uncool kid takes it a stage further and exaggerates the behaviour in an attempt to be truly worthy of acceptance.

      The uncool kid will even hand over their pocket money in the hope of buying favour.

      The group of cool kids see the uncool kid as just a fool and pathetic hanger on. They will never be one of their special circle.

      However, that doesn’t stop them making use of the uncool kid to run errands, do their dirty work and generally be the flunky.

      The sad thing is, the uncool kid doesn’t realise what’s really going on around them.

      And that is the way of the Scottish BritNat!

    50. Grouse Beater says:

      Capella: “Pity his son is prig as well as a pedant.”

      🙂

      Enjoy Linklater’s ‘Merriman’.

    51. Valerie says:

      Ach, good for Magnus man splaining to the FM how to do her job.

      It would be so much more difficult for her without this level of condescension from Magnus.

      How do you think she got to where she is, and recognised as one of the most popular leaders of recent years, without this type of advice?

      Here’s some advice for Magnus – GTF.

    52. woosie says:

      Sickening hypocrisy, yet clearly strategic. Yoon rejects only have to ask a question in Holyrood, without fear of the truthful answer ever hitting the ebc or scum. I was boiling at ebc news’ selective coverage of this, intentionally failing to show the full answer.

      Same with the “Scottish Shambles” Chinese thing. Yoon loonies asking me at work about SNP’s bad governance. Sometimes I’m too angry – or plain baffled at the stupidity of some “Scots” – to argue.

      I’ve now adopted the default response; why doesn’t england have its own referendum, question “Do you think england should stand on its own two feet?”

    53. Bob Mack says:

      @Ian Brotherhood.

      Yes I saw it Ian. A woman who has obviously never read any of the poems of Wilfred Owen. She actually believes these young men did not care they were killed or mutilated. Now she tries to blame the SNP for people living longer and worrying about dying. Utter madness in script.

      Such levels of hate are not unusual however in Effie land. British to the core.

      The outsider looking in could only draw conclusions if they were to compare this site with the Effie blog. She is beyond help but people still actually sometimes agree with her. I do not think this time though she has an accepting audience.

    54. Thepnr says:

      Last one on the Thatchers but it emphasises my point about UK corruption.

      Mark Thatcher became Sir Mark Thatcher, 2nd Baronet on the death of his father Denis who was bestowed an hereditary Baron title in 1990 despite the creation of hereditary Barons lapsing in 1964.

      Why was that? It was simply the corruption of power.

      “The creation of baronetcies lapsed in 1964; in 1990 the Conservative Government announced that this honour would be given to Denis Thatcher, but there have been no further creations.”

      Do you have any idea what a Baronet is? Neither did I until today.

      Baronets, as distinct from barons, are neither members of the peerage nor of the knightage (these titles are conferred by The Crown for life only). They constitute an entirely separate dignity of their own, the Baronetage.

      As holders of a hereditary dignity, their place in the table of general precedence is below the sons of Lords of Appeal in Ordinary (judges who are always barons) and above Knights of the Garter.

      https://archive.is/u6hYp

      Don’t you just love the UK.

    55. Thepnr says:

      Stick in at school son, get three O levels and you too can be a Baron.

    56. Macart says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Yeah, saw something of that earlier.

      On just the small sample posted, you can only conclude that particular blog author is clearly, and I do mean clearly, disturbed.

    57. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thrawn says: 12 November, 2016 at 2:11 pm:

      “Jesus wept”, Aye Thrawn, and see where that got him he was executed.
      Executed.

      “…grow up and welcome to being a party of government.”

      Oh! We grew up many years ago. You call yourself thrawn, and that you indeed are – and I do NOT mean ill natured I mean it in the real lowland Scots sense of being twisted.

      “It is the opposition’s job to oppose”

      Indeed it is to oppose, Thrawn, but that opposition presumes the opposition should oppose only what they perceive to be bad legislation and furthermore that with the opposition comes alternative proposals.

      I thus believe that the far more moronic posting here stems from you.

      ” … and I think the SNP are the last ones who should be preaching about hypocrisy by a party of opposition …for example saying they wont vote on English laws in Westminster…and then doing just that.”

      Which, of course, depends on what are defined as, “English Laws”, and in a legal sense there are no such things under Westminster’s remit.

      To be English law supposes it only applies, and only affects, the Country of England. However, as there is no such thing as a Parliament of England then Westminster perforce legally represents the entire United Kingdom.

      As England also has no block grant funding but is funded, directly, by revenues collected from the entire United Kingdom then every English matter is funded by the taxpayers, and voters, of the entire United Kingdom and thus everything English concerns everyone in the United Kingdom.

      Now, Thrawn, correct me if I’m wrong, (but I suspect you may attempt to correct me even when I’m right), is not the legal title of the legislative organisation of the Westminster Parliament, “Her Magesty’s Parliament of the United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland”?

      That is it is NOT a country and it legally represents the only two Kingdoms in the union that signed the Treaty of Union which gave birth to that legislative organ at Westminster.

      It is thus legally a legislator for a bipartite union of two kingdoms and that Treaty of union has not a single reference to country or countries in the entire document.

      There is no such legal legislation in the entire United Kingdom , never mind in Britain or Great Britain as the Parliament of England.

      Am I wrong?

      May I suggest, Thrawn, that you confine your efforts at trolling to something more like Labour Hame where your intellectual capability is more in tune with the other commenters?

    58. clipper says:

      O/T but time’s marching on and there’s been nothing (that I’ve seen) since the crowdfund reached its target about what’s happening with the bbc billboards.

      Anyone know? I can only assume that the likes of Prof Robertson, G. Ponsonby, C. Enright and the rest won’t have left finding a company willing to put them up until AFTER the funds were raised? That would have been getting it assbackwards. They’d surely have known that you need to find a company willing to do it FIRST before even starting the funding campaign.

      So what’s the score?

    59. Clootie says:

      ….2016 and we still continue with social ranking I.e. Baronets etc. even worse we have a pecking order within these invented positions. It is some form of madness – a real asylum with people wearing the pelts of dead animals while a referee declares the order of relative rank.

      A land with a leader decreed by birth conferring privelege on others or accepting the corrupt intervention of other club members creating other titles which are then neatly inserted into the gaps between the current band of posers.

      A raft of idiots posturing amongst themselves like the cast of a Mad Max movie.

      However the real madness is our ongoing acceptance of this nonsense which enables an elite group to control us by passing the reins only to those who “play the game”.

      Should reward not be civic and aimed at those who GIVE to society instead of TAKING.
      …Independence has so much to offer.

    60. Lochside says:

      Alex Salmond was accused by the ‘opposition’ in the Scottish Parliament of ‘lying’ on at least three or more occasions. He was found not guilty subsequently after facing Gov. committees on these ‘Trumped’ up allegations. Why do the SNP not do the same with the revolting BBC plant Davidson?

      With that kind of situation, even the stinking and corrupt ‘media’ could not hide it, and she could not possibly survive without being found guilty as charged. Public humiliation as a proven liar is urgently needed for ‘Ruthless’.

    61. Socrates MacSporran says:

      Robert Peffers @ 4.42pm:

      Another excellent post Robert. You set me thinking.

      Back, half a century ago, when I left school, I remember having learned that, one of the causes of the American War of Independence was, the American settlers’ belief they were being screwed by the Parliament of England.

      “No taxation without representation” was the cry of the American independence movement. It just struck me, EVEL is nothing less than taxation without representation for Scotland – yet we have all those Proud Scots but, who support the Unionists; quite happy to have their taxes spent in England, but with no say as to on-what.

      Also, I have always understood, after the Act of Union in 1707, the Parliament of England was abolished, while the Parliament of Scotland merely went into suspension.

      Three hundred years on and, the Parliament of the UK is still a de facto Parliament of England.

      Only in the UK.

    62. Glamaig says:

      it says here

      http://informscotland.com/inform-scotland-fundraiser-a-success/

      the billboards will be up in January

    63. Thepnr says:

      @Clootie

      However the real madness is our ongoing acceptance of this nonsense which enables an elite group to control us by passing the reins only to those who “play the game”.

      Exactly.

      Lord this, Baron that, King, Queen and Prince who?

      It’s the biggest load of crap ever and this lot are real spongers, I mean Sir Mark Thatcher, 2nd Baronet marries Sarah Jane Russell, Viscountess Rothermere.

      Then they split time between Marbella and luxury £3.2million villa in Barbados.

      Whoop do woo, this corrupt halfwit has three O levels FFS. How many more live off their titles and power bestowed on them because of their titles?

      Lady Mone, Lord Darling. Who are the mugs?

    64. Lenny Hartley says:

      Loch side I complained to my Msp after Ruthie Buffalo rider lied about the NHS and asked that she be called to account and apologise to Parliament for misleading it. I was told that the SNP had made a press statement. I then responded by saying so I take it there is no mechanism to make her apologise and was told correct. I will be taking it further next surgery.

    65. heedtracker says:

      Another stunning er, run down of just how ghastly UKOK hackdom really is. It just beggars belief that these guys are not a collective national laughing stock.

      Oh wait, they are.

      Also, isnt Magnus Linklater the Scottish haha tory spokes berk? or is that the Herald’s ex twerp in residence.

      But they’ll still all be sitting in Pacific Quay’s mausoleum of UKOK rules the waves, waffling their tory shite like its gospel.

    66. heedtracker says:

      Quell surprise, Mrs Linklater’s a House of Lords Baroness. No matter how we don’t want this crew anywhere near power, it makes no odds.

      This is the self preservation society…

      http://www.parliament.uk/biographies/lords/baroness-linklater-of-butterstone/2056

    67. Bill McLean says:

      Beginning to lose the will for this fight. Twenty years or so ago I would never have believed that UK Govt, the media and now the English people (Ref QT on Thursday) could treat us so abominably. And that is even knowing more about English and British empire history than most English folk I know. My English wife, who believes in and is committed to our independence, read Proud Cybernat’s post to NO voters and she commented – “fine but how many NOs will read it?”. Hope she’s wrong (how dare I) but I often wonder if we are talking to each other in a bubble. Robert P yesterday said a number of time that support is growing for independence and Nicola (not sure if those are his exact words but along those lines) – where does that come from? I really need some hope.I need to see our Govt and the SNP showing some sign of resistance! Clocking on now and need something other than the nasty negativity thrown at us by the media and UK govt every day.

    68. Phil Robertson says:

      The real hypocrisy about the China deal is the contrast between the SNP demands that the UK government shows great openness in the Brexit negotiations while they, as a government, negotiate and sign a trade agreement which spent most of its life cycle under wraps.

    69. heedtracker says:

      Herald,

      The toff at the top

      27 Jun 1998

      Baroness Linklater of Butterstone

      THERE are those who were surprised that Veronica Linklater only became a baroness in August of last year: they had been giving her a title for years. ”The Lady Veronica” has not been the only name she has been known by, either. In the sixties she was immortalised as ”Veronique”, and at the Perth by-

    70. Robert Peffers says:

      @Thepnr says: 12 November, 2016 at 3:31 pm:

      “This is just the short end of the stick, most we will never hear about. The UK is corrupt and rotten to the core.”

      The United Kingdom began with a forced and underhanded combined military and coercion fuelled treaty.

      The true story is there to read in our history if you look beyond that history wrongly taught in our school system. It is very foolish to believe such a deal wrought in such a manner could ever result in anything other than a continued con-trick by Westminster.

      The stark truth is that the end of the union will see the England kingdom’s place in the World ended and England’s financial structure returning to that in existence at the time the treaty of Union was engineered by them.

      Here are the facts laid bare. William Patterson began a subscription scheme to bail out the English Parliament from bankruptcy as they had massive National debts run up due to the wars they engaged in due to the English, “Navigation Acts”.

      http://ncpedia.org/navigation-acts-1651-1660

      These acts were applied to Scotland and also led to the American War of Independence as well as the European and South American conflicts.

      It was these acts and the subsequent disastrous Darien Expedition, also instigated by William Patterson, that bankrupted the wealthy landowners who were also the Scottish parliamentarians. Those they could not buy with English money they blackmailed and threatened into submission.

      Not only that but the English army was massed at the Scottish Border and the English fleet hove too off the Firth of Forth. The very fact that this is not taught in our Scottish schools should be clear enough that it was a forced marriage from the beginning.

      When we Scots get access to the books of the UK I’m sure there will be breath-taking revelations that will stand, “British”, history on its head.

      We cannot blame the English for this for they were fighting for their country’s future. It was the Paircel o Rogues as identified by Robert Burns, William Patterson was a London Scot and a close friend of the author, Daniel Defoe, a known English undercover agent. Both men were in the pay of Sir Robert Harley, the politician and English spymaster. These did the most damage and to this day it is still the London leaning Scots who continue to sell Scotland’s birth right for their own ends. Those ends are sometimes no more than a just a skunk skin tipped robe, a title and attendance money from the House of Lords.

    71. Bill McLean says:

      Phil – you may have read my post just above yours and how I’m beginning to feel about the treatment that is being thrown at us daily.
      I don’t mean you any personal affront to you but THERE WAS NO DEAL signed, only a memorandum of understanding, which was attacked almost immediately by the unionist parties in Scotland whose aim in life is to destroy the Scottish economy on behalf of their masters at Westminster. If you fail to see the hypocrisy by the Unionist parties complaints but no complaint by them about UK deals that WERE SIGNED with China then you are no kind of person that I would wish to associate with.

    72. sarah says:

      O/T I know we’ve all been donating to so many great fundraisers but there’s only 2 days left for the Brain family – target £36000 due to despicable UK government’s inequitable behaviour, and only 13% raised so far.

    73. Liz g says:

      Ian Brotherhood @ 4.05
      Read the tweet from Auffil Effin…
      See what he meant by a corrupted mind.
      But it’s still quite obvious that she took her inspiration from the Braveheart scrip writers…..”All the day’s from that day to this ect”.
      That’s the trouble with ignorance it picks up confidence on it journey!

      Well it looks obvious to me…even with only three O levels.
      (Aye I’m looking at you Thepnr)

      Just go’s to show how sick mind’s will try to warp anything,but don’t worry cause she won’t morn.
      Mainly because she canny.

    74. Bob Mack says:

      @Phil Robertson

      Seeing you are in the know,what items of trade does this “deal” actually cover ?

      I’m sure we are all waiting with baited breath on your knowledge being revealed.

    75. galamcennalath says:

      If there’s something strange in you neighbourhood
      Who you gonna call? Trolljegeren!
      If there’s something weird
      And it don’t look good
      Who you gonna call? Trolljegeren!
      😉

    76. Andy-B says:

      It is interesting that a foreign governments (Westminster) press, can and does regularly attacks the Scottish government.

      Yet they (the press) also trumpet the qualities of the union, double standards I think.

    77. Thepnr says:

      @Bill McLean

      I hope that you never give up hope!

      I don’t know how but the message is slowly getting through, I know this because just Thursday past my Mother in Law told my wife that she would be voting YES next time.

      She is close to eighty years old and despite all my attempts at persuasion before the first referendum should would not budge from voting No.

      Now that she has changed her mind is astonishing to me as she has came to that decision by herself, believe me things must be changing fast for that to have happened.

      Brexit, Trump, May and Johnson are all visible. Even people that don’t read Wings can see this is not good. Many of those that voted No in the first referendum are teetering on the brink.

      No Bill you can’t give up yet.

    78. Croompenstein says:

      The BBC yes the BBC calling out the Herald for talking pish..

      The Herald newspaper had quoted the Irish government’s international development minister as saying there would not be direct talks with Ms Sturgeon’s government over Brexit.
      However, the first minister will meet President Michael Higgins and Charlie Flanagan, the minister for foreign affairs, during her visit to Dublin

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-37952259

    79. Ken MacColl says:

      Magnus Linklater , prior to screwing up The Times, played a large part in wrecking
      The Scotsman -Alasdair Dunnett and Harold Evans sadly missed!
      My advice would be to avoid this phoney Brittish Establishment crawler.
      Eric Linklater, although slightly dated, writes much better fiction than his son.
      Magnus Merriman is good but Private Angelo is better.

    80. heedtracker says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 November, 2016 at 6:10 pm
      @Phil Robertson

      Seeing you are in the know,what items of trade does this “deal” actually cover ?

      This kind of “deal” isnt about trade. China and Norway for example are minted, awash with big money. In the good old days they’d buy up or lend to governments, gilts and bonds, with their low interest and low risk goodness. Its part of City wheeling and dealing that makes so City slickers millionaires before they’re 40.

      But UK.gov gilts and bonds for example pay virtually no interest now. They are very low risk, governments almost never default but it means that countries like cash rich China are under massive pressure to get a return on their cash mountains. Otherwise, inflation eats it all up.

      All of which is why countries like China are saying to countries like ours, let us pay for your nuke power plants and railways. Then we all pay them back over our lifetimes and its why Chinese investment in Scotland’s not that bothered by upper class Scottish twits at the Times, long term.

    81. Lochside says:

      Lenny Hartley…good luck mate. But following on from my post yesterday about supine SNP dealings with the ‘media’ Bill McLean you hit it on the head: we are in a bubble here, talking at each other.

      Where is the evidence that the general Scottish public is reacting at all to the continuing onslaught of anti-Scottish abuse and anti-Scottish Indy rhetoric from the BBC and the rest?

      I see and hear more from ordinary non political punters about Trump! Yes his election is important but the traducing of our democratic rights and even our identity is an ongoing disgrace and of immediate concern to all of us.

      Many years ago Guinness managed a dishonest( at the very least) takeover of United Distillers. The Scottish Argyll group were outmaneuvered by amongst others the subsequently imprisoned Chairman Ernest Saunders, the only man to have experienced reversible dementia enabling him to get early release from jail. The end result was a huge Scottish public revulsion against Guinness and their lies about keeping Distillers HQ in Scotland. Guiness’ sales slumped for a long period of time.

      Where is the public fight back now? The ‘Stop funding hate’ campaign against the mail and the express should have been run up here. What about targeting the BBC? It goes back to making our opposition direct and PUBLIC. Hence the billboards, WBB etc.

      Hoping that the average punter staring at their phone, reading facebook or the ‘Metro’, or even watching Jackie Byrd/John Mackay believing their britnat slant, knows about the reality of the disinformation or suppression of information taking place, that we on here can access, is extremely optimistic or naive in the extreme.

      If you don’t accept this, consider the power of the’VOW’ courtesy of the Daily Record and the BBC….enough to swing a close victory into a devastating near thing but ultimate defeat?

    82. Thepnr says:

      @Liz g

      LOL regards the three O Levels, your not a Baroness or a Lady though are you? I don’t mean that literally 🙂

      Macart also mentioned his lack of educational qualifications, doesn’t stop him being just about the best poster on Wings though does it :

    83. Croompenstein says:

      FFS Stu whit kind of political blog are you running when you’re not covering the SLibDem conference.. 🙂

      Looks like we missed a speech by some arsehole..

      https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/797480354923823105

    84. Bob Mack says:

      @Heedtracker,

      I know that,but I want the twittering of the great cerebellum that is Phil. He is a classic example of one who knows the real facts but tries to make it something else.
      He spoke definitively so let him answer definitively.

      Over to you Phil.

    85. Gary45% says:

      As far as world corruption goes.
      China/Russia are YTS.
      the UK, USA, and Israel are time served.
      Nuf said.

    86. Glamaig says:

      Croompenstein says:
      12 November, 2016 at 6:14 pm
      The BBC yes the BBC calling out the Herald for talking pish..

      Not only were they talking pish but they used this headline on their billboards displayed outside newsagents up and down the land ‘Blow for Sturgeon… etc’

      Why choose this non-story for the billboards with so much actually happening in the world?

    87. Robert Peffers says:

      @Lochside says: 12 November, 2016 at 5:00 pm:

      “Alex Salmond was accused by the ‘opposition’ in the Scottish Parliament of ‘lying’ on at least three or more occasions. He was found not guilty subsequently after facing Gov. committees on these ‘Trumped’ up allegations.”

      Indeed so, Lochside. It is a matter of record, though, that Alex Salmond had to actually refer himself to the Holyrood Standards Committee as none of his accusers had the gall to take their accusations to the committee.

      Preferring instead to rely upon making their accusations stick by use of our, so unbiased, Scottish Media to accuse the then First Minister of being a liar.

    88. Ken MacColl says:

      It’s no big deal being aLibDem Baroness.
      Apparently there are around 30 of them at present, mostly rejected politicians who have won positions of privilege and influence without the tedious business of referring to the electorate.

    89. clipper says:

      Glamaig 5.12

      That’s great. For some reason never occurred to me to check their site first for info about it (few glasses been raised here today) hic

    90. Cactus says:

      Hey Effigy @ 1:46 pm

      For interest (fun!) I changed some of dem earlier WM gov quotes around for an alternative perspective. 🙂
      ———

      That was then..

      “Government responded:
      The Government is committed to making a success of leaving the EU, together as one United Kingdom. In 2014 people in Scotland voted to remain part of the UK and that result should be respected..

      ..The United Kingdom will in due course be leaving the European Union and the UK Government is committed to making a success of this, together as one United Kingdom..

      ..In 2014, the Scottish people decided in a legal, fair and decisive referendum to remain a strong part of the UK..”

      This is NOW..

      The Scottish Government is committed to making a success of leaving the UK union, together as one United Scotland. In 2016 the people of Scotland voted to remain part of the EU and that result should be respected.

      The South of Britain will in due course be leaving the European Union and the Westminster Government is committed to making a success of this, together as one United South of Britain.

      In 2016, the Scottish people decided in a legal, fair and decisive referendum to remain a strong part of the EU.

      How does that sound, any better?

      Scotland.
      X.

    91. Grouse Beater says:

      Ken McCOll: “Eric Linklater, although slightly dated, writes much better fiction than his son. Magnus Merriman is good but Private Angelo is better.”

      I met Peter Ustinov and, reading your post, remembered this: Private Angelo is a 1949 British comedy war film directed by Michael Anderson and Peter Ustinov.

      It starred Ustinov, Godfrey Tearle, Maria Denis and Marjorie Rhodes. It depicts the misadventures of a soldier in the Italian Army during the Second World War. It was adapted from the novel Private Angelo by Eric Linklater. The film’s costumes were designed by Ustinov’s mother Nadia Benois. A number of scenes in the film were filmed in the Italian village of Trequanda in the Province of Siena a story set in warm climates always an attraction to filmmakers!.

    92. Bill McLean says:

      Thepnr -thanks for the response. I wont give up until my tootsies are pointing upwards permanently but I am becoming very dispirited. Although not a great fan of hers I was really really sickened by the behaviour of the QT audience to Tasmina on Thursday!

    93. Phil Robertson says:

      Bill McLean says:
      12 November, 2016 at 6:06 pm
      Phil – I don’t mean you any personal affront to you but THERE WAS NO DEAL signed, only a memorandum of understanding,

      You may wish to play with words but my meaning of “deal” was “an agreement or understanding entered into by two or more parties for their mutual benefit, especially in a business or political context”

      Now there must be unfairness elsewhere but that does not exempt the Scottish government from criticism.

      Not only did it take a week for the existence of the MoU to be acknowledged, it was about three months late in acknowledging its collapse. More worrying it was the Chinese partners that pulled the plug despite the FM acknowledging that the government had not performed “due diligence” in negotiating the MoU.

      Furthermore the SG’s blaming of Amnesty and Willie Rennie for the failure looks as if it comes straight out of the Chinese government manual.

    94. Capella says:

      Bubble? Since when was exchanging views with a diverse and far flung group of people a “bubble”? WoS commenteers come from all parts of Scotland, UK, Europe, N America, New Zealand and the Far East.

      WoS has a wider readership than most newspapers.

      Far from being a bubble, the Wings Community represents the brightest and best of political commentary in the UK. If the Vuelio Awards don’t reflect that then it is they who exist in a bubble.

      Increasingly, the MSM journalists live in a bubble. We, on the other hand, are a diverse and perceptive bunch of political analysts.

    95. Victor Young says:

      Winnifred ? BBC hate Scotland ? You have proof of that I suppose, or is it that the BBC have to be impartial and, as a result, they sometimes say things that sound favourable to the SNP, and at other’s things that are not…Of course when you passionately believe in something, you can become very hostile to anything that appears to be a critizism of it . But, there you are you can have a broadcasting service which only says words of approval for the State, like Germany and Radion Moscow, of old, or you have one that is even handed . By far the safest way is to have a broadcasting service which, at times, does not reporesent your personal point of view

    96. Bill McLean says:

      Phil – waken up! I was not playing with words.NO DEAL was signed – It WAS NOT A DEAL of the type that the Brit Govt did numbers of.It was simply a MOU. Please get up to speed. I do not ever exempt the SG from criticism. The Chinese have said yesterday that the MOU is still alive and that the hold up was due to hostile opposition in Scotland – you know who from! Please, you have been asked many times by many people to quote the facts – this you continually fail to do! I have little time to discusss non-facts with people like you but do sympathise as you probably get your facts from the DM, DE or worse if there is such a media output.

    97. galamcennalath says:

      Perhaps Wee Ginger Dug’s best yet. Says what needs to be said.

      He speaks of the Scotland I want to be part of. He also speaks of the UK I want to get away from and the groups who are trying to prevent that.

      https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/2016/11/12/fear-of-foreign/

    98. Robert Peffers says:

      @Socrates MacSporran says: 12 November, 2016 at 5:03 pm

      “You set me thinking.
      Back, half a century ago, when I left school, I remember having learned that, one of the causes of the American War of Independence was, the American settlers’ belief they were being screwed by the Parliament of England.”

      Quite so, Socrates, but that school history skipped over the real logic of what was going on.

      “The English Navigation Acts”, decreed that all trade with the English colonies had to either be done by the English Mercantile Marine or, if a non-English merchant used his own or hired a non-English ship the crew of that ship had to be English.

      Now in those days the mercantile Marine were not only the shipping company but were also the merchants doing the deals. That is they bought and sold the cargos rather than just transported them for other merchants.

      Thus they could not only dictate the price paid to the producers of the goods but also demand whatever price the could get away with from those buying the importing goods. Also they gained from both the buyer and the seller, And that law was applied to Scotland by what was the same person who was the independent monarch of both kingdoms.

      In those days, before the industrial revolution, the trade was mainly agricultural staples and such things as wines, alcohol, tobacco, clothes, building materials and exotic spices.

      The Navigation Acts caused wars in Europe with, mainly the Dutch and French but the same double edged disadvantages suffered by the Scottish farmers and landowners in trading with the English Mercantile Marine were suffered in the Americas too. It also affected the inter trade of the then still individual countries of what eventually became United States in the North American colonies.

      Fighting the wars the Navigation Acts caused was what led to the massive national debt of the Kingdom of England. It also saw the Scottish landowner/parliamentarians to suffer a loss of income and this was made worse by several years of failed harvests. Including the, “Year o the Short Corn”.

      Not only was there the Navigation Acts but after Patterson started the scheme to bail out the English government he was instigating the Darien Scheme that saw those landowners facing bankruptcy when it failed and that failure was helped along by the crown ordering the Royal Navy not to aid the Scottish expedition and the Soldiers of the King at Darien not to aid the Scots at Darien.

      Now remember that the excuse for a show of force being shown against Scotland was that the English feared the Auld Alliance with the French that England were fighting with over the Navigational Acts and you will begin to see the full importance that England saw in forcing the Treaty of Union.

      Never forget also that they were still fighting the so called, “Jacobite Rebellion”, at Culloden in 1745 almost 40 years after that treaty of union being signed in 1707.
      “No taxation without representation” was the cry of the American independence movement. It just struck me, EVEL is nothing less than taxation without representation for Scotland – yet we have all those Proud Scots but, who support the Unionists; quite happy to have their taxes spent in England, but with no say as to on-what.
      Also, I have always understood, after the Act of Union in 1707, the Parliament of England was abolished, while the Parliament of Scotland merely went into suspension.
      Three hundred years on and, the Parliament of the UK is still a de facto Parliament of England.
      Only in the UK.

    99. Phil Robertson says:

      Bob Mack says:
      12 November, 2016 at 6:10 pm
      @Phil Robertson
      “what items of trade does this “deal” actually cover ?

      To quote, “talks had suggested Scotland could benefit in areas such as affordable housing, communities, clean energy, industry and business parks and transportation infrastructure.”

    100. Grouse Beater says:

      Victor Young: ?”You are you can have a broadcasting service which only says words of approval for the State,”

      It’s that kind of clap-trap that lowers the constitutional debate to pig ignorant level.

      The issue is having a broadcaster that actually represents the culture, news, and diversity of a nation, domestically and internationally.

      If you don’t understand that, you don’t understand the damn argument at all.

    101. Liz g says:

      Thepnr @ 6.26
      LOL….just couldn’t resist and thanks for being enough of a gentleman to not point out the terrible English in that post.
      I was rushing to do my normal Mum’s Saturday night Taxi bit.

      Well that’s ma excuse any way.

    102. K1 says:

      ‘…talks had suggested Scotland could benefit in areas such as affordable housing, communities, clean energy, industry and business parks and transportation infrastructure.”

      ‘talks’?

      I mean what does it take for you to acknowledge these were ‘talks’?

      ‘talks’ does not a ‘deal’ make?

      It’s just mind bendingly twisted the way you are responding to Bill’s very simple points, this was not a ‘deal’, it’s not possible for you to be this obtuse is it?

    103. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “The United Kingdom began with a forced and underhanded combined military and coercion fuelled treaty.”

      How could this have possibly happened if the Scots were, as you insist, “sovereign”?

      Because their “sovereignty” was not worth the paper it was written on.

      The “plebs” of Scotland have never been “sovereign” and never will be until after independence with a written constitution giving them proper rights.

    104. Bob Mack says:

      @Phil Robertson,

      So firstly, you say there is a trade deal and the next you say they were talks. Which is it exactly? I could say a deal with USA would build all these things ,but until a trade deal is signed all the talks do not amount to a hill of beans.

    105. Andrew Mclean says:

      Oh dear Chinese bad, don’t like Chinese say unusual people, Amnesty international, good, Amnesty international have been protesting to Westminster for years, Westminster never took Chinnese money unusual people say, Scotland what do you think you are doing talking to the Chinese government, Scotland bad unusual people say

      Westminster good, Chinese government good, Westminster gets money, Chinese money, China good, Westminster good, unusual people say, amnesty international is good, Chinese are good, all good.

      Scotland talks to Chinese, Westminster unhappy, Westminster puts all its guns in line, press unhappy, Westminster government unhappy trattoria knave unhappy, make Scotland bad place for good Chinese say trattoria knave. Media obliged, Westminster happy. Trattoria knave say
      “The games afoot Follow your spirit, and upon this charge
      Cry ‘God for Harry, England, and Saint George!’

      Chinese not having that, no play game, let players know that they are big fuckng superpower, tell Chinese media run story tell Scotland, we remember them, tell them the truth.

      Made it simple for fuckwit troll, games afoot, ”tis just the start my lads, just the start”

    106. Grouse Beater says:

      Bob Mack: “There is a trade deal and the next they were talks. Which is it?”

      It’s an accord, called a ‘Heads of Agreement’ deal.

      You agree to be partners in an identified venture or group of ventures, based on negotiated conditions, and at a later date meet up with concrete proposals to invest.

      It binds the parties to each other – and by implication excludes interlopers – but doesn’t bind the main parties to any specific project or capital costs at that stage. Projects come later and are subject to intense discussion and negotiation.

      To sum up – it’s a deal to deal where no money changes hands.

      Here’s how it works: a producer goes to Sony Pictures with a slate of movies, none made. He shows evidence of scripts and actors attached. Sony likes the projects and agrees to distribute them worldwide offering investment up front … so long as the movies are made to a certain standard and deliver on time. That allows Sony to reject any they think crap. We exchange a Heads of Agreement itemising the relationship in ideal theory. Sony does the deal to stop MGM moving in. We all know who gets what when the projects get made.

      We announce the deal jointly to the public.

      For ‘films’ substitute locomotives, or tins of beans, or automobiles, or houses, or school jotters.

      Amen, brother

    107. Phil Robertson says:

      Bill McLean
      “The Chinese have said yesterday that the MOU is still alive and that the hold up was due to hostile opposition in Scotland – you know who from!”

      And the FM said “the Government was made aware in August “that due to the political climate our partners in that memorandum of understanding felt that they could not proceed at this time”.” Maybe alive but in an induced coma.

      “Please, you have been asked many times by many people to quote the facts – this you continually fail to do! I have little time to discusss non-facts with people like you but do sympathise as you probably get your facts from the DM, DE or worse if there is such a media output.”

      Most of the following can be got from the SG sources. Care to tell which of these are not facts?

      It took a week after its signing for the existence of the MoU to be acknowledged

      The SG was about three months late in acknowledging its collapse.

      It was the Chinese partners that pulled the plug.

      The FM acknowledged that the government had not performed “due diligence” while negotiating the MoU.

    108. Andrew Mclean says:

      Oh Phil

      Having a bad day. The wheels are spinning fast on this game, you do need to catch up fast.
      What if I told you a secret, would you promise not to tell!

    109. Thepnr says:

      @Phil Robertson

      Just for you Phil.

      With Labour and Conservative opponents of Sturgeon’s Scottish National Party blasting her government for its handling of the affair, by August, reports said the deal was dead.

      However, SinoFortone managing director Peter Zhang told China Daily this week the group has not pulled out of the deal and said no agreement with Edinburgh has been cancelled.

      “The deal is actually on hold,” Zhang said, citing a slowdown on the Scottish side as the reason.

      http://www.ecns.cn/business/2016/11-11/233547.shtml

    110. Grouse Beater says:

      Phil Robertson: “The SG was about three months late in acknowledging its collapse”

      There has been NO collapse, and you know it, you malicious thug. If you ask for evidence I’ll post it again – I’m dealing currently with a subsidiary Chinese company. So, please, no more chucking sand in our eyes.

      You can’t ‘collapse’ a deal that doesn’t exist. However, you can delay the start of a deal if an accord to deal has been signed by both parties but the climate is not conducive to the project starting. Nevertheless, the accord remains intact for the duration of the relationship stated in it.

      Capice?

    111. Bob Mack says:

      @Phil Robertson,

      You are either the most galactically stupid poster or deliberately obtuse. Which ?

      You have in fact answered your own question.

      Due diligence — investigations performed BEFORE signing a contract.

      You know, like Rangers failed to do with Craig Whyte !!

    112. Molly says:

      Victor/Grousebeater

      Re our state broadcaster .

      All I know is I had to wait until Scotland was playing England before I could just switch on my telly ( itv ) and watch the game.

      There are big questions for the SFA but where do we have that conversation at a national level – especially if your not on social media?

      How do we expect our kids to play for their country if they can’t get access to watch it?

      Now extend that question to health, education, standard of living, environment, fracking, Trident etc

      The BBC and STV may fill our screens with ‘ content’ but they are in control of that content . Apart from Scotland Tonight which reads out some tweets , where do people who are not on social media get to hear other sides of the debate by ordinary people who live here?

      We have ‘ news ‘ broadcast to us at short intervals throughout the day until the week end where obviously nothing happens in Scotland – anywhere.

      There is no refelection of daily life broadcast by the BBC in Scotland.

      The sad thing is, people no longer notice or seem to care.

    113. heedtracker says:

      Ouch. Times, Herald, you name them, they’re all very very toryboy.

      Kevin McKenna: Of the Herald

      12 hours ago.

      When it comes to Trump, Nicola Sturgeon needs to grow up”

      Not a believer in Scotland is old Mackenna but what toryboy is. Or, “Women, know your limits.” Same for their Scotland region of greater England.

      Will we ever shake off planet toryboy Scotland? Yes!

    114. heedtracker says:

      There is no refelection of daily life broadcast by the BBC in Scotland.

      The sad thing is, people no longer notice or seem to care.

      What can we do though? My day is filled with Scottish life, voices, views, news, everything. In the evening, turn on telly, radio, papers, and everything is English. Its just another fact of life in teamGB.

    115. Grouse Beater says:

      If Scotland was to reject every deal with London based corporations and financiers because of misdemeanours reported or rumoured we have next to no trade with the English what so ever.

      Ferranti transpired to be one of the biggest crooks in the aviation business when it was discovered to have over-charged the Ministry of Defence over 200% on defence electronics. The company went belly up when forced to pay back the overages.

      Its headquarters was Crewe Toll, Edinburgh.

      Let’s have no cant about crooked Chinese companies.

    116. Thepnr says:

      Kevin McKenna is increasingly becoming a waste of column inches. He needs to grow up and stop sitting on the fence.

      For him the grass is always greener where the wages are coming from.

    117. Grouse Beater says:

      MollY: There is no refelection of [Scottish] daily life broadcast by the BBC in Scotland.

      I agree. With severe cuts to BBC’s budget brought about by the phony austerity doctrine of Westminster it’s certain we won’t see any substantial change to BBC output from Scotland, bar some rearranging of the chairs.

      BBC is irrelevant to Scotland’s progress, and has been for over 25 years. With the SNP in power it has retreated even more into its London shell.

    118. Bob Mack says:

      @Grouse beater,

      Add to that list polly peck, Northern Rock. Mg ,De L’Oréal and every other raga muffin “good standing” company who with British values at its core, screwed the taxpayer for hundreds of millions.
      Chinese are novices in comparison.

    119. Thepnr says:

      Kevin McKenna needs to grow a backbone and start writing based on his his principles. As it is he flip flops from Yes to No back to front.

      WHERE ARE THE PRINCIPLED JOURNALISTS? Surely some still survive?

    120. carjamtic says:

      I used to be,a somebody….

      Someone please tell the BBC/MSM/Yoons it’s over….and to stop throwing punches at imaginary opponents,it’s not Scotland,it’s not all the other European countries,it’s not anyone else.

      You have defeated yourself,no-one to blame only you…..so please just let go with some dignity and stop bad mouthing everyone.

      Like some old prize fighter who cannot accept that,he will never appear in any of the top ten list’s again,but still angry,still looking for a fight,still muttering to himself.

      The now aged model,who inside had nothing,she only got bye on outward appearances,that have long since faded,now drinks from the bottle,smells like a cat,her neighbours she sickens.

      Yes,we all laughed at you,mocked you,but sadly even though,you actually know all this to be true,you continue looking for the imaginary enemies,still jumping at shadows,still angrily howling at the moon,all bitter,all twisted….we now just cross the road to avoid you.

      Scotland Good does not equate to England Bad….it never has.

      #getoveryourselves

    121. Ken500 says:

      When it comes to bring a journalist McKenna needs to shape up and start being a proper would-be ‘journalist’. Like doing one. A bit of proper research. Not some regurgitated spiteful, Unionist Party print out. Try and cross the line.

      Not a pathetic baseless craven compulsive liar cub reporter. Every word that is utter is a lie. Nothing nonsense.

      When it comes to bully boys McKenna, Murdoch and the rest of them come to the top of the list. The dregs supping with the Devils. Obama/Clinton.

    122. Grouse Beater says:

      Bob Mack: “Add to that list Polly Peck…”

      I agree completely.

      Phil Robertson carefully overlooks Sir Philip Green and the £400 million he removed from BHS. £400 secreted into his wife’s offshore tax evading account. Wonderfully honest country, the UK. Our businessmen are desperate to parade their clean ethics.

    123. heedtracker says:

      Thepnr says:
      12 November, 2016 at 8:36 pm
      Kevin McKenna is increasingly becoming a waste of column inches. He needs to grow up and stop sitting on the fence.

      Its tory trolling, old school. How many women have to listen to dudes like this telling them to grow up. Women should be bare foot, pregnant and in the kitchen, for that generation of UKOK newsroom hackdom.

      And then they wonder why they’re a laughing stock.

    124. winifred mccartney says:

      Hate was the wrong word to use for the BBC and Scotland, but I believe the BBC to be biased against Scotland and certainly it does undermine Scotland – all this is done to make sure we stay in the Union and never have the confidence and truth about Westminster to make the break. I would never say the Scottish Govt is not to be criticised but neither should Scotland be talked down and misrepresented they way it is by the BBC. You can lie by ommission as well as in fact or be selective in your news – all I want is fairness.

    125. Lenny Hartley says:

      http://archive.is/kJexu
      O/T Lego stop advertising in the Daily Heil

    126. Undeadshaun says:

      See Scottish enterprise are advertising for a international senior executive China.

      As part of the High Growth Markets Unit, you’ll be a key link between SDI and Chinese businesses looking to invest in Scotland. Whether that’s through large-scale events, seminars, or one-to-one meetings, you’ll help us to identify companies who could become potential investors. You’ll then work with colleagues across the Scottish Enterprise network and other stakeholders, such as local authorities, to help us devise an appropriate proposal for these companies.

      You’ll also work with colleagues in Marketing to make sure our propositions and communications remain relevant for the Chinese market. You can be based in any Scottish Enterprise office in Scotland; you’ll need to travel to London frequently and abroad occasionally.

      Guess this is related to the deal being on hold until a team is built up.

    127. Ken500 says:

      Check out the disgrace deal May signed with the Chinese. A rotten to the core deal over priced, and will be overtime – years late. Westminster Useless Tories screwed out by the Chinese for deals which are over priced by double and will be years over-time. The Westminster have been totally crewed for £Billions. It is HS2 and improvement to the Scottish direct line that they should be developing. To improve the economy. Scotland will be Independence and will not be paying the debt repayment for that piece of Kak – Hinkley Point and HS2. Or Heathrow £MultiMillions.

      The Tory total useless incompetents have been screwed. Scotland will not be paying for any of that malicious contract. Or nearly £1Billion a year – (£10Billion a year in total) for a piece of useless, obsolete scrap Trident. They are already 6 empty shells sitting at Rosyth rotting the environment. Bankrupt Britain caused by Westminster/Unionist useless articles blowing the Middle East to bits for years.

      Scotland will be Independent and have its Oil & Gas sector back up and running. Not screwed by the Tories illegal , unfair 40% tax/tarriffs (when the price has fallen) To destroy the Scottish economy, losing thousand of jobs and £Billion to the Scottish economy. Then Importing untaxed, fracked Gas and Oil from the US etc. Putting up the balance of payments deficit and the debt. Then Scotland having to pay repayments on it.

    128. Ken500 says:

      Ex Scottish Executive chief was criticising having another Independence Ref but praising up Brexit, for which Scotland did not vote. They don’t believe in Democracy or freedom of choice.

    129. Grouse Beater says:

      It’s a rare talent that can unite the establishment right and the left in vehement hatred of it, but the SNP managed it, not for governing Scotland well, which it most certainly does, but merely for governing Scotland.

    130. Ken500 says:

      How can a donation be sent to the Brains family by cheque or direct bank over the counter contribution. Where can that information be found. Where are the details?

    131. Ken500 says:

      @ It is HS3. The UK Gov should be developing linking the Northern Cities. Their rail connections are deplorable. Victorian, An absolute disgrace. Chronically neglected for years. Holding up rail journeys throughout Britain. Not HS2 feeding into the never decreasing, exhausting congestion pollution of unavoidable London S/E connection. Affectively slowing up the economy and creating health issues.

    132. sarah says:

      @Ken500
      Re the Brain family crowdfunder, I forgot to say it is on Justgiving “crowdfunding to assist the Brain family”.

    133. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      A “bubble” (of Yes supporters?) was mentioned one or three times up above.

      I attended the showing of “London Calling”, the documentary based on GA Ponsonby’s book about BBC bias, at the Steps Theatre in Dundee, a week or so ago.

      A question I requested be asked at the Q&A session after the showing, was, “Be honest – put your hand up if you voted NO or didn’t vote at the 2014 referendum.”

      Out of an audience of 100-150, TWO people put their hands up. The organiser admitted her husband had voted NO but had left after the showing.

      Now, maybe I’m wrong but I would surmise that the vast majority of the audience already knew about what was detailed in the documentary, having read GAP’s book.

      It would have been more useful if a greater proportion of the audience didn’t know about what was in the film. It may have caused them to go away and speak to others about what they had learned.

      It was mentioned that a sub-titled version is to be uploaded to YouTube in the next few weeks. That could be the chance to share the link with soft No’s, to get the message spread further than our “bubble”.

    134. Robert Peffers says:

      @Rock says: 12 November, 2016 at 7:46 pm:

      “How could this have possibly happened if the Scots were, as you insist, “sovereign”?

      Because, Rock, the common people were largely mainly uneducated and thus unaware they were sovereign.

      Then there were the deliberately pig ignorant arses, just like you, who knew that they were sovereign but decided an English parliament have sovereignty and thus the legal right and entitlement to do as they liked with the people of Scotland – no matter what the law of Scotland actually was and still is.

      Like you these people would rather it stayed that way.

    135. yesindyref2 says:

      @Phil Robertson
      21st March 2016 – MoU signed with a confidentiality clause
      23rd March 2016 – Purdah for Scottish Parliamentary elections began at midnight

      http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2016/01/3207/1

      “10. During the election period, the Scottish Government retains its responsibility to govern and Ministers remain Ministers and in charge of their portfolios. Essential business must be carried on (see Note 1 below for a definition of ‘essential business’). However, you can expect Ministers to observe discretion in initiating any new action of a continuing or long?term character.

      11. Decisions on matters of policy on which the next administration might wish to take a different view from the current administration are expected to be postponed until after the election, provided that such postponement would not be detrimental to Scotland’s interest or wasteful of public resources. You can also expect Ministers to be largely engaged in the election campaign and therefore not want to be asked to make decisions on issues during the election period unless it is essential that they should do so. “

      So, do you think

      1). The Scottish Gvoernment should have announced the MoU contrary to the confidentiality clause in the MoU during the 2 days before Purdah began?

      or 2). Do you think the Scottish Government should have broken purdah?

      Well, do you?

    136. Legerwood says:

      Thepnr says:
      12 November, 2016 at 8:42 pm
      “”Kevin McKenna needs to grow a backbone and start writing based on his his principles. As it is he flip flops from Yes to No back to front.””

      ……….

      I do not think Mr McKenna has any principles other than the one that says he will write whatever will please who pays him.

      In his column in today’s Herald it is noticeable that very few women have posted any comments on his article, at least that was the case the last time I looked. What you had was a lot of men the majority of whom were having a go at Ms Sturgeon.

    137. yesindyref2 says:

      @Phil Robertson
      It took a week after its signing for the existence of the MoU to be acknowledged

      Covered above – the Scottish Gvoernment were in the election purdah period.

      The SG was about three months late in acknowledging its collapse.

      It hasn’t collapsed.

      It was the Chinese partners that pulled the plug.

      The plug hasn’t been pulled.

      The FM acknowledged that the government had not performed “due diligence” while negotiating the MoU.

      There was no deal, just a MoU to explore the possibilities and exchange confidential informtion. No money changed hands. No contracts were signed. No “due diligence” required.

      Next.

    138. Stu Mac says:

      @Victor Young
      ==============

      I’m not going to bother researching to find the many, many examples that could be shown but off the top of my head: Nick Robinson claiming Salmond refused to answer a question several times and then YouTube evidence appeared showing he did answer the question (and the BBC edited their footage to make it appear he’d not answered); that is well beyond mere misrepresentation. I also recall many years ago (when I still voted Labour in UK elections) Nicola Sturgeon being interviewed and was constantly interrupted as she tried to answer questions (by the interviewer who didn’t seem interested in getting a proper answer – at one point I think he interrupted her several times in the same sentence); then when the interviewer switched to a Labour man he was allowed to talk uninterrupted for several minutes.

      It’s not just the BBC being anti-SNP mind you; they give the same treatment to anyone who doesn’t follow the accepted line. The idea that the BBC is still the unbiased dispenser of truth of the past is no more than a myth. Years of Birtism and pressure from the tabloids and various governments did away with that long ago.

    139. Croompenstein says:

      I saw a picture of some proud Scot dick with a half Scotland half England shirt on before the game it gave me the boak.

      It could have been Phil Robertson or Colin Ripley.

      Can Phil and Colin not see that no one from England would wear a shirt like that because they don’t give an actual fuck about anyone but their own country and guys that country isn’t Scotland. You are just useful idiots who will be dropped like a stone when they have no use for you. Come on England end the union as it looks like only you will…

    140. yesindyref2 says:

      @Legerwood
      I agree mostly with Kevin McKenna’s article. Sturgeon had no place trying to interfere in the election by “backing Clinton”, same as Dugdale had no place actually campaigning over there, the Herald in supporting Clinton, Davidson in making her comments, a whole load of others who should know better. It was open season on Trump, and everybody ignored Clinton’s shortcomings. Except the US electorate.

      And after the election you have Harvie in his ridiculous comments, Sturgeon in maintaining her attitude, most of the press of the UK if not all of it, having a go at Trump who is shortly to be the President.

      Most if not all countries are not perfect when it comes to human rights – is the UK perfect? McKenna is right. Sturgeon needs to grow up.

    141. Liz g says:

      Robert Peffers @ 9.54
      You could also add that the Army backed up with force the subjugation of the sovereign people of Scotland.
      There were no peaceful routes open to asserting our Soverenty until relatively recently.

    142. Phil Robertson says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      So, do you think
      1). The Scottish Gvoernment should have announced the MoU contrary to the confidentiality clause in the MoU during the 2 days before Purdah began?

      There is no reason why it shouldn’t. As for confidentiality, the MoU includes a clause that says ” The whole MOU may be subject to release in the event of a request for information made under the Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002″

      (You contradict yourself in the later post that claims that “the Scottish Gvoernment were in the election purdah period.”)

      or 2). Do you think the Scottish Government should have broken purdah?
      As it happens, the SG did release the details during the purdah period. Which it could avoided by releasing details when the agreement was signed.

    143. Croompenstein says:

      GB@9:14

      Ah GB nails it in a sentence.. 🙂

      This is what sticks in Robertson and Ripley’s craw..

      but the SNP managed it, not for governing Scotland well, which it most certainly does

      Superb GB

    144. Effijy says:

      Cactus 1 Westminster Tory Boys 0

    145. Ealasaid says:

      A few people have mentioned talking in a bubble, while others have talked of increasing support. I tend to agree with Thepnr and his experience with his mother-in-law. You do not change a No to Yes by continually haranguing them with questions and your views. They have to decide for themselves!

      Currently the country is in a mess and the messages being poured out in the media are also a mess. There is growing uncertainty about the security of the status quo and people are beginning to look for other opinions in their news sources of choice in the Media.

      They are noticing that those alternative voices are being drowned out and are hard to hear. The Media says one thing one day and contradicts itself the next. And always the tone of the Media on these issues is very confrontational, angry and full of contempt and hate.

      Most of these people are not themselves full of hate and are getting tired of having it blasted at them all the time.

      My Aunt, just turned 95, in full possession of her mental faculties, and stuck in front of the TV all day as her eyes are not good enough to read, tells me with passion that she hates Ruth Davidson, she is really dreadful and the others are no better. Willie Rennie does not fare much better, though she has to think who Kezia Dugdale is as she does not register at all (maybe in USA that week).

      She wants independence and does not rage at Nicola Sturgeon, though she does not agree with everything she says. Nicola is talking calmly and sensibly and NOT raging at the opposition and avoiding being confrontational. So in all this chaos people listen.

      I believe that more people, in their own time in the quiet of their own homes, are moving from No to Yes. I think that the Media and Westminster are the biggest recruiters for Yes at the moment as they cannot help themselves.

      The Yes movement has not really started campaigning at the moment. As some one put it previously, we are still in that ‘Braveheart’ moment of HOLD before the battle commences, and that is working very well.

    146. yesindyref2 says:

      @Phil Robertson
      Nice try, but I’m used to people quoting parts selectively to try to fluff their dodgy argument. Try this which comes immediately before the bit you selectively quoted:

      http://www.gov.scot/Resource/0049/00498660.pdf

      Each Party may make public reference to the existence of this MOU as it thinks relevant and appropriate, provided that each party will obtain the approval of the other parties for the contents of any press release relating to the termms of this MOU prior to issue of such press relaease.”

      You’ll note that says “press release” which doesn’t explicitly preclude parliamentary release, however, since CR3 and Sono-Fortone have shareholders, it would be customary to allow them to inform their shareholders. 2 days isn’t enough.

      And no, I didn’t contradict myself, another failed tactic those with a weak or non-existent argument such as yours try to use. I had already covered the purdah period commencement in the posting you had clearly read.

      No cigar for you.

    147. K1 says:

      Ah keep trying to find the word that describes this mind bendingly twisted obtuseness…he’s a cu…cun…cunto…contortionist.

    148. Big Jock says:

      Ealasaid- I agree that people need to come to yes,themselves. I don’t bother with the haters and bigots in my work anymore. I would rather have conversations with open minded people. There are times I want to scream at ill unformed MSM sponges. But I found out during indi ref 1. That they only want a conversation that ends with them being right. They end up ganging up on anyone with a divergent opinion.

      Their beliefs are not based on logic or knowledge. They are in fact ingrained attitudes that come from a lifetime of believing Scotland is a failure and indi supporters ate like the IRA.

      So don’t waste your time on terminally stupid people. After all the information is all over the place. Logic will lead an intelligent person to Yes. The dim witted bigots couldn’t see a light in forest full of fireflies.

    149. Like I said on previous article, Yoon neurons are now in some new weird quantum state that defies even the suspension of conventional logic which Schrodinger’s Cat does (the hypothecation, not our learned contributor).

      For the sake of argument, let’s call it a ‘duperposition’.

    150. K1 says:

      Och chic let’s called it ‘stupidposition’ 😉

    151. Big Jock says:

      Stupid does what stupid does! Ask Wullie Ronnie!

    152. Big Jock says:

      Stupid does what stupid does! Ask Wullie Rennie!

    153. Big Jock says:

      Bloody spell check n all!

    154. Andrew Mclean says:

      The NPR,

      I noticed the link you posted has changed again, that is why it’s best to archive.

      Gone is the rather emotive language, instead we have “Scotland is open for business despite stalled deal” updated yesterday 9:30

      Phil is in the unenviable position of trying to obscure the fact that information is coming to light of “state actors” have been involved in dissuading the Chinese government to invest in Scotland.

      So he concerns himself with the minutiae of Holyrood protocols and unionists spin. the dusgst he should have towards those who seek to damage his country is subjugated by decades of being told he is a snivelling jock, and not good enough to lick his masters boots, like the poor mistreated unworldly fool, pity not anger, is what he invokes.

      A lot of posts over the last few days on wings have made people realise that nothing makes sense in this story, not one article in the press. Nothing fits, nothing lines up, I wonder if this will be the catalyst that finally pushes the Scottish population to realise they are being played for fools by Whitehall. Because we all know this stinking edifice will fall, this disunited union, it just needs one outrage, and maybe the machinations from the world of the dark, are being witnessed in the world of the light.

    155. Hamish100 says:

      Hasn’t Linklater got very close ties to the lib dems including Rennie, Carmichael and co.

      Part of the establishment against Scotland’s freedom.

    156. yesindyref2 says:

      @Phil Roberson

      I forgot this bit from you: “As it happens, the SG did release the details during the purdah period.

      Only after someone in CR3 leaked it to the Chinese press, and the SNP-hostile newspapers and the opposition parties at Holyrood were crawling all over it trying to get political capital out of it, with no regard whatsoever of the posssible value of £10 billion of investment to Scotland – cheap capital as others have pointed out due to the low returns on government gilts. A return that is so low, some are looking to park capital at a negative rate of return, with Ireland managing to borrow £1 billion over 50 years at an interest of 0.33% in August this year.

      That’s £10 billion of investment that could, and still can, go into Scotland’s infrastucture. Which the opposition parties still don’t care about, as all they care about is trying to do down the SNP, not a care in the world of what harm that might do to Scotland.

      Do you like the opposition parties in Scotland Phil? With their don’t give a stuff attitude to Scotland?

    157. Grouse Beater says:

      Hey! I’ve discovered an episode of Father Ted I’ve never seen before.

      That’s brightened up the day, and it’s approaching midnight.

    158. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @GB –

      🙂

      I hope it’s a good one.

      You will report back, eh?

    159. heedtracker says:

      Nigel Farage arrives at Trump Tower in New York.
      Nigel Farage arrives at Trump Tower in New York. Photograph: Eduardo Munoz/Reuters
      Edward Helmore and Martin Pengelly in New York with Sally Desmond and agencies
      Saturday 12 November 2016 21.37 GMT

      Nigel Farage discusses ‘freedom and winning’ in meeting with Donald Trump
      Ukip leader who played key role in Brexit vote seen at Trump Tower
      Senior adviser to US president-elect confirms meeting”

      All Graun excitement tonight.

      Oswald Mosley keeps bobbing up like vomit.

    160. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew Mclean

      I archive 99% of the time, there are occasions such as this one that I deliberately chose not to archive. I wanted readers to see that the link was from a Chinese source not a corrupt UK newspaper one.

      I’ll keep in mind though that it is useful to archive anyway just in case the content changes. Cheers.

    161. Grouse Beater says:

      Yesindyref2: “Sturgeon needs to grow up.”

      Well, that’s you in my bad books.

      Appeasement.

      Just like that. Flick of a switch. No problemo. Political honesty, ethics? Who cares?

      Tell you what, Mr Hitler. Oor Ramsay MacDonald will see sense. Just gie him an okay oan a wee flap o paper, an’ things will look fine in the mornin’. He jist needs to grow up, ye ken.

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-b61

    162. Grouse Beater says:

      Ian Brotherhood: “I hope it’s a good one.”

      It was not quite up to par. This time he and Dougal got lost in ancient tourist caves, rather like the episode lost in the brassiere section, Ladies Department of a store, but not so funny. He bumps into “I don’t believe it” Richard Wilson. (An actor I saw on the Citizen’s stage getting bollocked for not knowing his lines one day before first night.) But any Father Ted is a good Ted, and I enjoyed the novelty of seeing it fresh.

    163. Dr Jim says:

      Sturgeon needs to grow up? WTF!

      There you have the Major League Yoon argument in a sentence

      It’s OK to tell the truth until the other guy wins then you suck up his Arse while simultaneously ditching your every principle only to be vilified for doing that, and if that’s not enough become exactly the untrustworthy crap you opposed in the first place

      Genious!

    164. One_Scot says:

      Everything about this photo just oozes how fucked up this world is.

      https://twitter.com/PeteWishart/status/797588822758486016

    165. Grouse Beater says:

      Here you go, MSM sanctifying fascism:

      “Farage first major UK politician to visit Trump.”

      “Not a hair’s breadth separates Front National from Ukip” – Marine Le Pen.

      Have a nice Sunday, ya’all.

    166. Smallaxe says:

      WATCH JOHN PILGER HERE
      The Coming War on China (http://thecomingwarmovie.com/) is John Pilger’s 60th film for ITV. Pilger reveals what the news doesn’t – that the world’s greatest military power, the United States, and the world’s second economic power, China, both nuclear-armed, are on the road to war. Pilger’s film is a warning and an inspiring story of resistance.

      Peace Always

    167. Capella says:

      @ indyref2 ” McKenna was right. Sturgeon needs to grow up” – like you and Kevin?

    168. Chic McGregor says:

      @K1

    169. Chic McGregor says:

      @K1
      ‘Och chic let’s called it ‘stupidposition’ ‘
      Ha ha.

      Let’s comprimise on ‘stuperposition’.

    170. Andrew Mclean says:

      Thepnr

      You should use the one from the global times of China. That has some amazing allegations, that I noticed have not been changed, so either someone hasn’t noticed, or if they have tried to have it removed it’s been unsuccessful. It’s immaterial anyway, it’s copied and distributed worldwide now.

      Anyway back to Westminster.

      Did you guys know At 12:20, on November 9th in London, Ma Kai, China’s Vice Premier and Baroness Neville Rolfe, UK’s Minister of State for energy and intellectual property unveiled the board for UK-China Nuclear Joint Research and Innovation Centre(JRIC). It is China’s first joint Research and Innovation Center with a western developed country in nuclear energy area, which ushers in a new era based on the investment to nuclear power. UK and China will have a more comprehensive and deeper cooperation in scientific research, technology, and in the whole nuclear industrial supply chain.

      Funking lucky it wasn’t in Scotland, the press and opposition whodunnits would have shit themselves.

      http://archive.is/2EsaG

    171. K1 says:

      Aye chic, what about ‘stupourposition’ as the final ‘state’ 😉

    172. Chic McGregor says:

      Oops, hit return early there. Also should have been ‘compromise’.

    173. K1 says:

      sans second ‘u’ (bloody fingers think they can spell…better than me! Huh!)

    174. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      13 November, 2016 at 12:11 am
      Here you go, MSM sanctifying fascism:

      “Farage first major UK politician to visit Trump.”

      “Not a hair’s breadth separates Front National from Ukip” – Marine Le Pen.

      Rancid The Graun thing says Farage is the UKIP leader. He’s not. He’s the interim, a temp. And he’s a temp because UKIP fascists beat each other badly enough to be hospitalised, the European parliament.

      It took two UK broadsheet liggers to leave out the fact that Farage is a temp and its not by chance.

      Imagine a US Pres candidate calling a western nation like the UK rapists and murderers ? Mexico and Mexicans were American long before European colonists showed and built walls across their lands.

      You can do this all night. UK media is fascist, from newsroom to the filthy rich tax dodging owners.

      Trump brags about how he sexually assaulted women. He wants to ban all Muslims from the US. If our First Minster had not spoken out against this fascist areswipe and his great British Mosely style fascist ambassadors like Farage, she’d have lost my vote.

    175. yesindyref2 says:

      @Grouse Beater
      Kevin McKenna didn’t actually say that, neither did the original article which was on the opinion section, not news on the Herald. The original headline was “Sturgeon should take lessons in grown-up statecraft when it comes to Trump”. She does indeed need to learn some more statecraft. She’s genuine, but that’s not always good enough, not in foreign relations.

      But “Grow up” as a headline might get some attention, a short sharp shock, and Sturgeon should pay attention. Her duty is to Scotland, not her own personal crusades. Even Salmond says Trump should be given a chance, and Salmond now is a backbencher though also the Westminster spokesperson on foreign affairs.

      Utlimately Trump as most people “know” him, is through the eyes of an anti-Trump media, and pro-establishment like Clinton, who had all the establishment figures behind her, or even if Republican, not supporting Trump.

      I think Trump knew a long time ago, with much less money behind him, that he had no chance of winning against Clinton, so he wound her up and the establishment, so she lost. He also built up his public profile through Apprentice USA.

      Talking about establishment and media, I’m very surprised that doesn’t ring a huge warning bell with all Indy supporters, who suddenly believe all they read or see or hear in the media, when they don’t believe it about Indy. Remember that Salmond was demonised by the media when he was FM, and after a time of “honeymoon”, the knives are well and truly out now for Sturgeon too.

      So here’s a question: do you believe what the media tells you about Trump?

    176. Thepnr says:

      “Fear is the enemy, the real enemy”

      Commander Riker Series 1 Episode 3 Star Trek Next Generation

      🙂 🙂

      Watching Netflix, now has every series of Star Trek, couldn’t resist that. LOL

    177. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      Doesn’t matter whether or not McKenna said it, you did.

      “McKenna is right. Sturgeon needs to grow up.”

      Your coming across as a Trump supporter and that’s fine by me, but to to have the cheek tell Scotland’s FM to grow up is beyond the pale.

      Your aving a larf!

    178. K1 says:

      We watched the ‘actual’ rally’s yesindyref2, ah have no recollection of Alex Salmond standing up saying ‘we’re going to build a wall’ to keep the English out, I have no recollection of any ‘reality’ tv person called Alex Salmon saying ‘I just grab them by the pussy…’. We don’t need the ‘media’ for interpretation of what we can view with our own eyes and listen to with our own ears.

      The comparison you are utilising to make whatever point you think you are is a very poor one at the least and a rather cobbled together rationalisation for your own rather big ‘beef’ about Nicola answering a question which she chose to reply to truthfully.

      Are you seriously suggesting the continuous footage of the litany of hateful and utterly divisive language and tone of Trump is ‘false’. Does the mean you doubt the rise of the protests that are increasingly growing across the States. Did they not hear or see any of this from Trump either?

    179. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Trolling Splitters be amongst us.

      That is all.

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      @Thepnr
      Well, it got attention – a short sharp shock. Provocative.

      I didn’t support Trump, I didn’t support Clinton. My interest is Scotland. That’s what I focus on.

      @K1
      That’s what Trump did too, I think. He went out of his way to provoke Clinton and bring out the worst in her, and he succeeded. “Nasty woman”, as he said in the one debate I watched. She then prove him right. The best the media could do to be balanced was to say that it was the nastiest election on record, and the worst two candidates.

      I think Trump didn’t win, I don’t think he expected to win, but I think he expected to be able to make Clinton lose, and he did. Simple as that, an easy game plan for a game player.

    181. K1 says:

      Did you know anything about Pence his running mate? He has just been put in charge of Trumps ‘transition’ team, and in interviews from a couple of month ago Trump specifically stated he would be leaving much of his foreign and domestic policy to be run by Pence.

      If Trump gets impeached/or has an accident you do know who the POTUS automatically falls to?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Pence

    182. K1 says:

      He ‘did’ win. In Clinton ‘losing’, he ‘won’.

      So what exactly do ‘you’ think of Trump, it would appear you are suggesting as the culprits are the media who have ‘twisted’ this when it comes to ‘our’ view of him, there is another Trump that we don’t ‘know’ anything’ about?

      What is your unique take on him and his ‘agenda’ now that he has ‘actually won’ yesindyref2?

    183. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref2

      You might like to be provocative, I prefer inclusive.

    184. Liz g says:

      Yesindyref2 @ 12.37
      It’s no so much the MSM and what they say about Trump.
      It’s the alternative right wing media from a couple of years back.
      At that point that was where he first started doing interviews and floating the idea of running for President.
      They were pretty friendly to him and a lot of the stuff attributed to him was from his own mouth,build a wall ect.
      Who knows if he really means it or not but he was saying it.

    185. Andrew Mclean says:

      Thepnr,

      Well said, I personally find it a very grown up trait, being inclusive and all!

      😉

    186. Meg merrilees says:

      Has anyone got the link for the brain Family crowd funding. I don’t seem to be able to find it and only two days left, Thanks.

    187. Valerie says:

      @yesindyref2

      K1 says it all at 12.53am, we saw the goddamn footage of what he said! Unless, that stuff was a mock up. He has numerous lawsuits outstanding against him, causing some to comment, one of them might cut him off at the knees.

      Really disagree with your comment about Nicola and foreign policy. She came to global attention immediately post EU ref.
      for her very assured handling of our position in Europe.

      Scotland is now regarded as a separate place from England, with a very different set of politicians, culture and priorities, in the eyes of EU.

    188. Proud Cybernat says:

      I always had reservations about wearing the red poppy–mainly because of its association with the Haig fund. Haig that idiot donkey that sent millions of young men over the top to their deaths.

      Why should I wear something that memorialises that arsehole’s name?

      Don’t–I mean DON’T–misunderstand what I am saying here. I profoundly respect those men and women who fought and died to protect and preserve my freedom. Our freedom. That is an absolute given.

      What I simply cannot abide is the despicable politicisation of their sacrafice by the British state. Wear a black armband with a poppy to show your respect. Wear it not and you will demonstrate disrespect.

      No. Again–no. Those men and women who died in all of those wars died to PRESERVE OUR FREEDOM; to preserve our right to object to and reject the British state’s politicisation of their ultimate sacrafice.

      I reject that–utterly. I will wear a poppy (most likely a white poppy) to honour those who fought and died to give me the freedom to have an opinion of my own. They did not fight and die in order for us to be TOLD what to do and how to act by the British state. I will NEVER wear a poppy because the British state simply expects it of me for that is the complete antithesis of what the ultimate sacrifice of thse who died foe us actually meant.

      Wearing of the poppy does not equte to demonstrating your Britishness and it never should. But that is where the British state is taking it and is supported in that endeavour by the BBC.

      They are trying to equate the wearing of the poppy with your Britishness and thus you are compelled to demonstrate your Britishness by wearing the red poppy. Well sorry to disappoint but I will wear a poppy (a white poppy) to commemorate those who fought and died for me but it will have absolutely FUCK ALL to do with Britishness.

      ‘Cause I am Scottish. And I resent British imperialist wars killing our people.

      Just sayin’.

    189. K1 says:

      Look I don’t want the thread to be ‘hijacked’ by this. The issue I have wi Trump is much like the same issue that has happened with Brexit, to bring this back into our context.

      Trumps ‘game’ has opened the door to allowing extreme ‘right’ wingers of the Republican party into the forefront of US politics. In exactly the same way that Cameron by allowing himself to be ‘pushed’ into giving us the EU ref because of the Tory internecine war over Europe that has dominated their party for decades, allowed Brexit to happen in the UK context. May is UKIP lite at the moment, but the more this ‘hard/soft’ Brexit issue gets cooked the more emboldened the likes of Farage and his mirror counterparts in the Tory party are going to become.

      We ‘are’ fortunate in Scotland. We have what I term the ‘thin Saltire line’ protecting us from the worst excesses of the incumbent Tory UK gov. Nicola is attempting a path to secure our EU citizenship and to do that she is sending out clear and unequivocal signals of where Scotland’s polity sits within the political spectrum. It would have been an act of ‘phoniness’ on her part if she had not answered a direct question ‘truthfully’.

      People like Farage, Trump, May et al are the real bullshitters, just as you outlined yesindyref2. They can say anything they ‘like’ cause it’s a ‘game’ for them. Well it’s not a game for her as far as I can see. She responded in an appropriate manner that befits her own political credentials. If she had come out with some disingenuous pish…then it really is the same old same old that we are ‘backing’ here in Scotland.

      Let’s agree to differ and let this be an end to this moaning about what she coulda/shoulda/mibbee/if only ‘had’ said/not said.

    190. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @ Proud Cybernat says, 13 November, 2016 at 1:29 am

      Up to you dude they died for your freedom of expression, which most would have appreciated your imagurs 🙂

      Wear a poppy (Red one or a White one) or don’t wear one.

      Wear yer ribbons and tin or don’t.

      Bottom line is how you commemorate those who fought and died for you and the rest o’us has absolutely f*ck all to do with any one else but you.

      Long as you made it count for you and yours mate, that’s all that matters.

    191. Thepnr says:

      Each to their own.

      I choose not to believe in religion, I choose not to wear a poppy, I choose to ignore my betters in the media, I choose to ignore the advice of politicians that lie.

      Therein lies freedom. I choose Independence.

    192. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I choose to believe in your right of expression @ Thepnr says at 2:05 am

      I believe in your personal freedom.

      I also choose Independence.

      Sorry, bit maudlin’ been drinkin’

    193. Liz g says:

      Meg Merrilees @ 1.23
      Sarah @ 9.43 farther up the thread is saying that the link to the Brain family is on just giving crowdfunder.

    194. Thepnr says:

      @Jockanese Wind Talker

      Who husnae. 🙂

      I’ll leave you with this. Independence will only be won by converting some that voted No last time.

      Obvious eh! That’s our job, no more no less. Have a good kip.

    195. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @ Thepnr says at 2:31 am

      The fact your Outlaw has changed from NO to YES gives hope more have/will change.

      Polls appear to be rigged but we must be at least 55% YES right now 🙂

    196. yesindyref2 says:

      Trump called Mexico 3rd I believe in the list of countries Egypt, Ireland, Mexico, Israel, Turkey, India, Japan, Australia and South Korea – then the UK. I kind of doubt it was to ask Mexico for a down-payment on the wall. My guess is to say something like “It was all election rhetoric”, but time will tell. Nobody knows.

      EU – yes, she was superb in the EU, but the visits weren’t made to interfere in their elections – or endorse one candidate over another. A very poor mistake to make.

      @Thepnr – provocative used in the context (Cambridge Dictionary) “causing thought about interesting subjects: [e.g.] The programme will take a detailed and provocative look at the problem of homelessness.”

      Inclusive is good.

      @K1
      I have as little idea of what Trump will do in office as the media does – or any of us. He’s not in office yet. Hopefully he’s less likely to cause a Third World War leading to hundreds of millions of deaths, disease, starvation and poverty (a lot more than now) than Clinton would have been.

      Anyway, there’s another article now, from Paul Hutchoen of all people. He mentions Sturgeon, Dugdale, Davidson and the “£3.9bn worth of goods were exported to US, Scotland’s biggest market outside the UK.” in 2014. He also suggests “Sturgeon will have to walk a fine line between principle and realpolitik”. I agree. With Paul Hutcheon of all people. And Phillips O’Brien. And John Peterson. At last people are speaking out, hopefully in time to avoid permanent damage to Scottish-US relations, so that’s all from me about this!

      http://archive.is/Qjt8C

    197. Thepnr says:

      @yesindyref

      Do you stand by your own words. “Sturgeon needs to grow up” If you do please tell me in what way she should grow up.

      I’m all ears.

    198. defo says:

      Paul Sturrock ?

    199. Breeks says:

      I’m with Nicola on this one. Yes, ok, there’s the why back Clinton side to answer, but….

      What message would it send to world if Nicola had ignored and Trump’s racism, misogyny, outright ignorance and arrogance, and said nothing about his rank unsuitability as a potential US President? The guy is a nutter who wants the Mexicans to build a wall to keep their own illegal immigrants from entering the US. He wants to ban Muslims from entering America, and join forces with Russia to flatten the Middle East. You really think a Scottish First Minister should turn a blind eye, keep mum just in case the nutter gets lucky and wins?

      I want Scotland to be one of the few countries in the world to do what is right, not merely expedient. It fills me with delight that the prick Farage was given the thoroughly frosty reception he richly deserved when he tried to peddle his filthy xenophobic agitation here in Scotland. Well done Scotland. But even then the BBC slimeball manipulators saw Coburn elected to shame Scotland in Europe.

      Farage and Trump are both hedonist con men who thrive on their capacity to get what they want unhindered by any qualms about morality or conscience. If the UK and US media had a fraction of the true grit and integrity of Scotland’s FM, Farage would be a forgotten nobody noisily pickling his bitter liver in obscurity, Trump would have thrown his money down the drain even trying to become a Presidential nominee, and the two fuckwit countries of England and US would not be skipping down the road to ruin egged on and emboldened by one another’s blythe stupidity.

      Come to think of it, more rigorous scrutiny from the media, the likes of John Pilger for example, and perhaps Clinton would also have missed the cut too, different blend of unsuitability, but still too toxic for the Whitehouse.

      The world might draw small comfort from the fact this “special” relationship between the US and UK for now seems curiously intent on self harm this time around, rather than their usual Pressing desire for bombing the shit out of some other country, but be in no doubt, these are dangerous lunatics are running the asylum. They are comfortable and at ease with rank stupidity.

      If the US and UK want to get a room and pursue the antisocial isolationism of joint pariah status, then Hell mend them. I want no part of it. I want to stay in Europe, open, inclusive, and progressive. Not Noddyland, blinkered, hate fuelled, ignorant and xenophobic.

      When they go, I hope they take their rancid corrupt media circus with them. It is a disease on progressive society and I want Europe cured of it.

    200. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Good Morning Nana,nice and early this morning,thank you.Kettle’s on.

    201. CameronB Brodie says:

      Breeks
      Everything you want requires the respect of human rights. Sustainable, enabling solutions can be found.

      There is no template for life, no ideology of truth. The future can be what you shape it to be but only if you have access to the means of articulating that ambition.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    202. Red Squirrel says:

      US2016 election so exceptional that FM had to stand up against a toxic tide.

      If maintaining SCOT-US relations means rolling over & allowing the proto fascist agenda to flourish then count me out. Do you really want the new prez supporting Indyref2?

      Rumoured new US cabinet looking like a Moodie cartoon.

    203. Nana says:

      On Remembrance Sunday the bbc Marr show plan to show a pre-recorded interview with fascist Le Pen. How sickening.

      Why are people paying a licence fee for the bbc to push their anti EU hate agenda and why aren’t politicians condemning them.

      Is there anyone in Scotland prepared to call for a boycott.

    204. CameronB Brodie says:

      Respect of human rights is fundamentally and intrinsically linked to the protection of environmental quality and the achievement of sustainable solutions to real-world needs and requirements.

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    205. louis.b.argyll says:

      I despair. Nana.

    206. CameronB Brodie says:

      Give me break folks, these are from memory and I’m still note sure I nailed it here. This is social science theory man. And woman Reg. 🙂

      Respect of human rights is fundamentally and intrinsically linked to the protection of environmental quality and the achievement of sustainable solutions to real-world problems, and thee provision for real-world needs and requirements.

      …………..

      “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

      “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

      http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

    207. louis.b.argyll says:

      Winstone Churchill was not a very nice man.
      He’s up there with Henry VIII.

    208. Ghillie says:

      Already have Nana : )

    209. One_Scot says:

      It’s funny, I have felt for some time that there are posters on here that the jury is still out on, nothing has changed to make me think any different.

    210. Grouse Beater says:

      Yesindyref2; ““Sturgeon should take lessons in grown-up statecraft when it comes to Trump”. She does indeed need to learn some more statecraft. She’s genuine, but that’s not always good enough, not in foreign relations.”

      I have no idea what it is your are trying to uphold, nor, I suspect, do you for it’s not you doing the thinking but McKenna doing it for you.

      The remark is childish, insulting, calculated to demean.

      Appeasement is appeasement. There are no shades of grey.

      The MSM will always support the most powerful in society. They have already begun to elevate Marine Le Pen and talk of Farage as a ‘major’ UK politician. It is not that Farage is bold or clever, it is that Cameron and the Labour party were weak and ineffectual.

    211. louis.b.argyll says:

      ‘The Crown’ looks SHIT.

      Pile of extra posh luvvies piling in on the propaganda, fictional re-write of the THE WORLDS RICHEST CULT.

    212. Al Dossary says:

      @louis.b.argyll,

      I would go much, much further than to say Churchill was not a nice man. When you look at his wiki page, it seems to have espunged his involvement with the disaster that was Gallipoli.

      The mere fact that he felt that he needed another £500 a year ON TOP OF his £300 a year salary as a second Lieutenant just to maintain the equivalent lifestyle of his fellow officers just epitomises the “Lions led by donkeys” opinion of the officer class back around the turn of the century.

      Much to my regret, we never in these British Isles managed to get rid of the ruling elite in the manner of the French.

    213. Valerie says:

      Well said, GB @ 9.43.

      I would be affronted to say I agree with Paul Hutcheon.

      No coincidence these A holes are all demeaning the FM on the same theme, and advocating rolling out the red carpet for Trump.

    214. louis.b.argyll says:

      Fascists on TV before the Cenotaph? (the ultimate non political moment)

      F.ck you Andrew Marr and f.ck your producer and f.ck the BBC Trust.
      I can’t take it any more.

      My reserve is crumbling, respect should be earned..the opposite is being pushed in our faces.

      Resisting hatred without anger is tricky.

      The BBC IS THE MODERN GESTAPO.

    215. Jimbo says:

      It’s funny, I have felt for some time that there are posters on here that the jury is still out on, nothing has changed to make me think any different.

      Stu has always advocated an open comments policy. Provided they stick to the rules, Unionists have always been allowed to comment here too, It’s just that, with a few exceptions from time to time, they choose not to.

    216. Andrew Mclean says:

      One_scot 9:23

      The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

      Pithy, but true, question everything and everyone, including me, that is why you have a brain.

    217. louis.b.argyll says:

      If there is a global swing to the right, as seems likely..why has it accelerated?

      Greed, one of the seven deadly sins, has been normalised by capitalism.

      Fear of losing face, pride, is being used by RACIST MODERATES never mind the far right.

      There is no glory in winning a war, just sidelined, paused, hatred and misery..kept warm FOR THE NEXT WAR.

      The British Army is a f.cking disgrace.

    218. louis.b.argyll says:

      One Scot,
      So have you two placed yourself on this jury, as bad as anything you fear.

      Who’s judging..

    219. Grouse Beater says:

      Trump is incapable of empathy

      That is the classic warning sign of his pathology.

      There are Americans against him rioting in the streets and we here suggest our democratically elected representative should use grown up language in foreign affairs?

      Here it is: Trump is a fascist. He will encourage other fascists to share power with him. Your rights are in danger of disappearing altogether. He has adherents and admirers in power in the UK.

      Trump told us all of that we need to know during his election. An election is where a candidate shows his hand and his character. Proven dangerous and an ass, his term of office is not another period in which he is given time to show his hand and character, and we all hope it might be the opposite to what we have seen and heard

      He is what he has proved to be.

    220. John H. says:

      Richard Dannatt, ex British Commander-in Chief on Marr this morning pushing his new book, revealed that since the second world war Britain has been in conflict every year except one. British troops have died every year except 1968.

      He also stated that if Trump weakens NATO this will be an “opportunity” for Britain to take the lead in Europe. Defence spending will have to be raised, which of course will cost money. With falling revenues due to Brexit, where will the money come from? Who will pay the bill? I think we already know the answer.

    221. CameronB Brodie says:

      louis.b.argyll
      The Anglo/American pact has been moving to the right for decades mate, in a planned fashion. The steering wheel might have just come loose though.

    222. Grouse Beater says:

      John H: “Richard Dannatt, ex British Commander-in Chief on Marr”

      If peace was to break out across the globe we can be certain generals will make a plea for more spending on weapons of war, just to be on the safe side.

    223. Andrew Mclean says:

      To return to the article for a second, then we can get back to navel gazing, looks like Scottish government have a gentleman in their midst whom, to put it politely may not be fully supportive of the aim of the understanding, rather he is more interested in playing silly games.

      Tick tick, Tocqueville, as they say in China.

    224. louis.b.argyll says:

      We must stand-fast in our rejection of hatred.
      We must stand-up for minorities in our communities.

      Otherwise we ALL LOSE.

    225. louis.b.argyll says:

      CameronB Brodie says 10:33 am
      louis.b.argyll
      The Anglo/American pact has been moving to the right for decades mate, in a planned fashion. The steering wheel might have just come loose though.

      Rudderless fascism is a terrifying reality, matched in effectiveness by complicit media and markets.

    226. Grouse Beater says:

      Ed Balls – the duff puff pastry Labour shadow chancellor who told Scotland to go to hell – cavorts to Gangnam style on Strictly Ballroom.

      Nobody will convince me we are a civilised nation.

    227. Bob Costello says:

      It saddens me to read this very long trail of condemnation of a piece in the Times .Now let me be plain that most of the comments regarding the hypocrisy of the paper involved and the hypocrisy of both the opposition in Holyrood and indeed the British government are in the main well deserved. However the one thing missing from all this vehement condemnation ( and I admit I haven’t read all of it)is actual comment on the substance of the piece ,which was comment on the advisability of a head of state making the comments that Nicola made.
      Now let me be very clear that at no time during the American election process did I support Donald Trump and anyone who had read my blogs on the subject will have seen that and I in fact said much the same as Nicola did. (and probably a lot more)The difference is of couse that I am a private individual and Nicola is the elected leader of the Scottish people.
      I have a great many American friends including some who are very close to the American political scene and indeed many who are republicans. I have had many debates with them regarding the suitability of Donald Trump as a candidate to the most powerful position on the planet. I predicted that if Trump became the candidate he would be humiliated and the republican movement would be virtually destroyed as a consequence.

      Well I was wrong, I was 100% wrong and I have admitted it to the people I debated this with.

      So what ,you may ask does all of this have to do with Nicola Sturgeon? well I will tell you, and it is very simple I am a nobody as far as politics go and she is the leader of the Scottish people and as such she has to look to the future when she speaks. Now her first mistake was in her endorsement of Hillary Clinton a few days before the election .In effect she made that unwise endorsement on behalf of the Scottish people. Well I for one was absolutely terrified of the prospect of Clinton ending up in the Whitehouse as there is nothing surer that before long we would have been dragged even further into the US/Israeli morass that is the Middle East and more than likely to war with Russia.

      OK apart from that ,Nicola backed a looser and instead of showing some diplomatic probity, she acted like a petulant child at first ministers questions. This is not what I expect from a leader of Scotland.

      Politics and diplomacy should go hand in hand and one of the tenets of good diplomacy I would suggest is that although it is sometimes right for a politician to speak well , there are times when a silence says even more.

      Trump ,to all intents and propose is an unknown entity. Yes he has made some awful comments regarding race and gender but he is a new kid on the block. How many presidents have there been who did not make these terrible statements but then went on to drag us into horrible wars , killing hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians and many thousands of our young soldiers.

      How many young men have you known who have been wild in their youth but changed when they had a family?

      Well this guy has just been given one hell of a family, so give him the benefit of the doubt. We cannot do anything else anyway.

    228. Andrew Mclean says:

      As we move together towards May, what benefits would that investment brought to Scotland’s councils.

      just a thought.

      Worth the political gamble labour?

    229. Legerwood says:

      Grouse Beater @ 9.43

      Thank you for that which exactly chimes with the response I was going to make to his reply to my post.

      There is a video clip going the rounds on Facebook just now of the Irish Senator, Aidan O Riordan addressing the Irish Senate and he does not mince his words when it comes to his feelings about Trump and in particular the response of the Irish Prime Minister to his election.

      Sorry but I cannot give a link to it.

      There is also this which may have been posted on another thread:

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/scotland-leader-trump-response_us_5824a618e4b07751c390dca1

    230. Grouse Beater says:

      Bob Costello: “Trump, to all intents and propose, is an unknown entity.”

      You could have saved yourself writing all that dirge, Bob, by posting only that sentence, waited for the laughter to die down, and then claimed your remark as your best joke. As it is, you blew it by writing at great length to confirm it’s a serious opinion.

    231. Grouse Beater says:

      Legerwood: “There is a video clip going the rounds on Facebook just now of the Irish Senator, Aidan O Riordan addressing the Irish Senate and he does not mince his words when it comes to his feelings about Trump”

      Will check on it. Many thanks.

    232. Nana says:

      I linked to the Irish senator at 7.51am

    233. Grouse Beater says:

      Nana: “I linked to the Irish senator at 7.51am”

      Hey, Aodhan is a friend! I must call him!!

      Thank you, Nana. For anybody who wants to hear him speak here he is:

      https://www.facebook.com/AodhanORiordain/videos/1188963984497158/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

    234. Nana says:

      @Grouse Beater

      When you call your friend, please pass on my appreciation for a very welcome impressive speech.

    235. Grouse Beater says:

      I will, Nana. Thank you again.

    236. Chic McGregor says:

      Question is, what can the rWorld do when the fascists have nukes?

    237. Smallaxe says:

      Sorry, I never checked the date on that link,my apologies to All.

      Peace Always

    238. heedtracker says:

      OK apart from that ,Nicola backed a looser and instead of showing some diplomatic probity, she acted like a petulant child at first ministers questions. This is not what I expect from a leader of Scotland.”

      And yet no one said anything Sturgeon bad when she took the business ambassador for Scotland from Trump last year, after Trump went after Muslims.

      Funny that. Maybe Mackenna and his merry band of not fascist UKOK liggers thought Trump could never win, because they’ve so much political wisdom, integrity n shit.

      Unionists and tories, red and blue use anything to attack Sturgeon, the SNP gov, Scottish independence. Dudes like Mackennna are front line tpry yoon opposition and that’s fine, its democracy.

      If Trump’s 21st Century fascism turns out to be nothing but electioneering rhetoric, then that would be a great relief to millions of people everywhere, sleazy and creepy as hell, but still a relief.

      “Oh Donald, you really had us going with your pretendy fascism and hanging out with real fascists like UKIP and Farage.”

      And then Trump has to face the actual fascists that did vote for this non 21st century American fascist.

    239. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Nicola is the elected leader of the Scottish people… she made that unwise endorsement on behalf of the Scottish people.”

      Concern yourself not, for now we have:

      “The SNP do not speak for Scotland.” – David Dimbleby.

      Go figure.

    240. Legerwood says:

      Nana says:
      13 November, 2016 at 11:43 am
      “”I linked to the Irish senator at 7.51am””

      Apologies Nana, I had not gone that far back in the posts but had just come straight from watching it on Facebook.

    241. heedtracker says:

      “How many young men have you known who have been wild in their youth but changed when they had a family?”

      Trump was recorded bragging about sexually assaulting women 2005. He was 59, not 19, not 29, 59. At any age though, this is no different from Saville at the BBC, who was never recorded, no doubt, not by the BBC, with all its world famous probity, integrity n shit.

      Washington Post cut and paste, Oct 8.

      “The tape includes audio of Bush and Trump talking inside the bus, as well as audio and video once they emerge from it to begin shooting the segment.

      In that audio, Trump discusses a failed attempt to seduce a woman, whose full name is not given in the video.

      “I moved on her, and I failed. I’ll admit it,” Trump is heard saying. It was unclear when the events he was describing took place. The tape was recorded several months after he married his third wife, Melania.

      “Whoa,” another voice said.

      “I did try and f— her. She was married,” Trump says.

      Trump continues: “And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, ‘I’ll show you where they have some nice furniture.’”

      “I moved on her like a bitch, but I couldn’t get there. And she was married,” Trump says. “Then all of a sudden I see her, she’s now got the big phony tits and everything. She’s totally changed her look.”

      At that point in the audio, Trump and Bush appear to notice Arianne Zucker, the actress who is waiting to escort them into the soap-opera set.

      “Your girl’s hot as s—, in the purple,” says Bush, who’s now a co-host of NBC’s “Today” show.

      “Whoa!” Trump says. “Whoa!”

    242. heedtracker says:

      Bob Costello says:

      This is considered all fine and dandy by old men like Mackenna and condemning him means you’re not grown up, if you’re a toryboy in the 21st centrury UK zone.

      “I’ve got to use some Tic Tacs, just in case I start kissing her,” Trump says. “You know I’m automatically attracted to beautiful — I just start kissing them. It’s like a magnet. Just kiss. I don’t even wait.”

      “And when you’re a star, they let you do it,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”

      “Whatever you want,” says another voice, apparently Bush’s.

      “Grab them by the p—y,” Trump says. “You can do anything.”

    243. Fred says:

      Hitler was a new kid on the block! Trump is self-evidently an arsehole, no need for the media here, & McKenna is a prostitute who has to write something, it’s what he gets paid for.

    244. Dek says:

      Paul Hutcheon jumping on the Sturgeon Trump critic thing . Apparently Ruth Davidson also ” poked fun ” at Trump ( whoreson etc )…

    245. Fred says:

      Nicola Sturgeon would have been damned if she did & damned if she didn’t. Trump didn’t stop being an arsehole once he became elected.

    246. heedtracker says:

      Reason that the BBC and chums, our imperial master baiters have embraced and rammed the far right down our throats, is because the whole UKOK establishment is under threat like never before.

      So the whole UKOK tory shebang, red and blue and BBC, is reaching out to the next Snatcher Thatcher, a strong iron lady style hard core conservative that will not tolerate any change, that will destroy liberal democracy the way Thatcher destroyed the miners, who will make dole bums work, who will save the UK from the vile seps of their Scotland region, will tell the EU to stuff it, who will protect the royals, who will not allow the Lords to be threatened, go after the SNP and Holyrood, protect the rich and the private school Oxbridge class, and Trident 2, ofcourse, we need to protect us and for world prestige.

      Rule toryboy Britannia, like what Nigel Farage and co have scoped as their main chance.

    247. K1 says:

      Are you ‘sure’ that happened Heed, I mean ‘really’ sure, y’know the media? They just make this shit up…they just ‘fabricate’ every little thing so perhaps we really ‘should’ just ‘give Trump a chance’? Keep our mouths shut now that he’s the P elect?

      I mean people ‘know’ people in America and hey…they would be ‘real’ upset if they thought we over in little Scotland objected to their new POTUS elect…they might punish us severely by not trading with us because we cite verifiable evidence that proves he’s a totally bigoted, hypocritical lying racist piece of shyster shit?

      And if he is a vindictive bastard as many fear and some know through their dealings with him, then ‘assume’ the position of compliant silence while he ‘acts out’ his fantasy policies on the American electorate and say nothing in case he turns his invective on ‘us’? Cause that’s what ‘real’ ‘statesmen/women’ do. Isn’t it?

    248. Dave McEwan Hill says:

      Another excellent Sunday Herald. The new editor has worked wonders with terrific new contributors. A really good read for a Sunday

    249. t42 says:

      the power of populism has embarrassed unionist and firstminister alike. not “right wing” populism, not “left wing” populism. just populism.

      the enemies of populism use the same tactics.
      trump/farage/alex salmond is:
      too stupid/inexperienced
      too xenophobic
      too homophobic
      too racist
      too sexist
      too violent/angry

      meanwhile in the us city center the self proclaimed “progressive” hillary supporters are rioting and beating up white people suspected of being trump supporters.

    250. heedtracker says:

      K1 says:
      13 November, 2016 at 1:10 pm
      Are you ‘sure’ that happened Heed, I mean ‘really’ sure, y’know the media?

      Its a good question. In that how many times has it been asked, as hard core conservative Trump power got going, and at how many points in history and how many countries?

      Nazi Germany ofcourse is their pinnacle, their ultimate in hate and violent power. Putin loves Trump because he’s a fascist too. All fascists need great enemies and wars, hot and cold.

      Even a silly little fascist clicking soldier like Farage, was able to sit in a BBC Question Time studio and explain to us the horrors of a UK that actually treated 6000 foreign Aids victims. It was all a lie but then he wasn’t tarred and feathered, he gets BBC style lauded and given even more BBC air time, tv and radio.

      Planet toryboy is up against it though. They still own the UK and Trump’s a big boost but look at who else they’ve been trying to boost, UKIP style fascists like Le Pen and some Dutch far right Farage style clown.

      Our imperial masters at the BBC etc, are probably only just holding back real progressive liberal change in their UK zone but look at what they’ve become.

      It often feels like this though sometimes, in teamGB land, if youre not a red and blue tory yoon, artistically speaking, or singing:D

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQu8FOjJXdI

    251. CameronB Brodie says:

      Bob Costello
      The most powerful man in the world has a lot of baggage following, including links to organised-crime around the world. Clinton is corrupt and slightly unhinged. Not calling them out is to supporting them?

    252. heedtracker says:

      A Scottish Conservative NO vote speaks, on facebook. Just when you think they cant get sink any lower…

      Euphemia Deans
      6 hrs ·
      Remembrance Sunday

      Remembering the fallen from the World Wars is crucial with regard to our identity. These men and women all died fighting for Britain. What they fought for is betrayed by the SNP’s continual attempt to break up our country. What Hitler could not do, the SNP would like to do. So remember what our ancestors died for and keep fighting the fight that they fought. These brave soldiers are not gone. They are with us now. Their fight is our fight and always will be

    253. Phil Robertson says:

      Croompenstein says:

      Can Phil and Colin not see that no one from England would wear a shirt like that because they don’t give an actual fuck about anyone but their own country and guys that country isn’t Scotland.

      Sounds just like Trump talking about Muslims and Farage talking about Europeans.

    254. heedtracker says:

      Phil Robertson says:
      13 November, 2016 at 2:29 pm
      Croompenstein says:

      Sounds just like Trump talking about Muslims and Farage talking about Europeans.”

      Empty cheap slam Phil. But this is the age of the empty vapid, “grow up Sturgeon” tory, you hope Phil.

      Today’s Graun, JK Rowling’s a goddess, did you know that Phil?

      Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them review – JK Rowling goes steampunk, five Graun stars

      paperview 11h ago

      147
      148
      After the year 2016 has been, I really want to see this film. I’ve seen several trailers and it seems to bring together silliness and fantasy drama. It looks like we’re not looking at a British superhero movie, instead it looks like it’s a typical British fuck-up trying to make things right.

      The thing I’ve always contended about Rowling is that she’s not a great writer, but she’s a superb, world-class storyteller. I once got one of her Potter books and then spent the whole day in the garden reading it – with occasional breaks for a pee and to go out and get another bottle of wine (it was high summer – I couldn’t afford a holiday anywhere – and it was an incredibly delightful day, even with the resultant sunburn).

      So when this movie comes out near to me, I’m going to be one of the first people in the queue to see it. After all the deaths and political horrors of this year, I really, really need to find somewhere I can just sit back and have someone make me forget and allow me to enjoy myself.”

      Everything Rowling has ever said about Scotland and Scottish democracy is, its bad, really bad, vote NO, no change, ever. You’re British, shut up.

    255. CameronB Brodie says:

      heedtracker
      Remembrance Sunday: Clearly adrift from reality and not an ounce of self-awareness, but entitled to a chosen identity.

      Scotland will need to re-interpret itself to accommodate all.

      Greater emphasis should be placed on helping those who so clearly are in need. 😉

    256. Stu Mac says:

      @yesindyref2
      =================

      I believe what Trump says about Trump and that is pretty off putting. Just because Clinton was the corrupt establishment place(wo)man shouldn’t let Trump off the hook. He is deeply unpleasant – and I get that from the man himself. Whether he’ll be better or worse than her we’ll soon see. I do like the fact he doesn’t appear to be blindly anti-Russian but that could change once the usual power brokers get to him.

    257. CameronB Brodie says:

      I told you my dad was a tool maker.

      http://cultinformation.org.uk/article_caring-for-cult-victims.html

      Not as nasty as it might appear, as from an anthropological perspective, I would imagine British nationalism would be considered a cargo-cult style orthodoxy.

      It’s Britain’s Anglocentric social rigidity and lack of space for difference that has done for it. The post-modern world requires difference, flexibility with scope. I don’t see any of that on the UKOK horizon.

    258. Rock says:

      Robert Peffers,

      “Because, Rock, the common people were largely mainly uneducated and thus unaware they were sovereign.

      Then there were the deliberately pig ignorant arses, just like you,”

      Liz g,

      ” You could also add that the Army backed up with force the subjugation of the sovereign people of Scotland.
      There were no peaceful routes open to asserting our Soverenty until relatively recently.”

      In practice, they had ZERO “sovereignty”.

      And in practice, they still have ZERO “sovereignty”.

      Despite your pedantic long winded essays, you don’t have the foggiest idea of what “sovereignty” means in practice.

    259. Liz g says:

      The Irish Senator was fantastic.
      I don’t know if will reassure any one,but was watching Bill Marr (an American talk show) the other night
      One of his guest’s said to the agreement of the rest of the panel.
      That they were worried,if Trump attempted to implement any of the promises he had made , America would pay a price internationally.

      They all agreed that America can’t afford to be ostracised in that way.
      They think the American economy is to fragile and most of it’s power actually lie’s in it’s international standing.

      Their nightmare is infact Fortress America enforced from the rest of the western world not from the Whitehouse.
      Apparently America can’t even feed itself anymore.

      So the Irish Senator is right we can and we should act to curb Trump’s impact.
      It’s probably also the best way of helping the American people as well.

      If standing up to Trump costs us to be honest I don’t care it will be worth it.
      And they need international trade just as much as we do.

      Now it’s not a matter of… It’s the economy stupid…but rather…. don’t put the economy first stupid…..

      Nicola Sturgeon should be speaking up any and every time she can.
      Not to do so when we all know what she really thinks would make her look like a hypocrite.

      Speaking Truth to power gets my vote every Time.

    260. heedtracker says:

      Speaking Truth to power gets my vote every Time.

      If Scottish democracy has shown us anything at all, and its only 19 years old, it has shown us that we really can stand up to and speak out against the right and worse.

      If you only watched Scottish tv or read UK newspapers, you’d have no idea just how powerful democracy really is here. BBC Scotland take a tory bow.

      Or, they fucked up, our tory chums. They “gave” Scotland a PR parliament. No matter how hard they try to make us vote Tory or worse Farage, they fail. So far.

    261. Stu Mac says:

      @heedtracker
      ============

      Things is the PR system was meant to prevent anyone (especially the SNP) getting a majority and so not be bale to do very much. What didn’t occur to them (since they are so brainwashed into FPTP being the best and natural system) is that PR (even a system that could be improved) encourages more real democracy and encourages people to feel it’s worthwhile voting for what they believe in rather than feel they have a useless binary option. So they inadvertently improved democracy here – and they’d really like to undo it.

    262. heedtracker says:

      CameronB Brodie says:
      13 November, 2016 at 2:52 pm
      heedtracker
      Remembrance Sunday: Clearly adrift from reality and not an ounce of self-awareness, but entitled to a chosen identity.

      One of the most awful thing the right do today, is speak for and exploit the dead. Who can ever say what they thought, what they fought for, let alone how they would vote for Scotland.

      The other most awful thing is that its seems like this needs saying.

    263. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 3.11
      I think you have hit the nail on the head there Cameron,it is I think their inability to adapt and be flexible in an increasingly interconnected world that will be their downfall.

      But I do worry about the Tribel instinct in humans as a whole because to me that’s going to be the most difficult to overcome.
      There are still people,many of them,who would give up their own rights,just to make sure someone else doesn’t have them.
      Returning the death penalty being the most extreme.
      Wanting to ban the burker an obvious one.

      We need to get ourselves leaders to take us forward,as we will only all thrive when our rights are fully realised.

    264. heedtracker says:

      Stu Mac says:
      13 November, 2016 at 3:46 pm
      @heedtracker

      It does seem like PR Scotland is planet toryboy’s greatest mistake, since ever:D

      Ultimately what its shown the toryboy imperial masters of the UK zone is that they cant actually frighten and threaten us or even frame and shape how we think.

      We can bash on and on about relentless tory propaganda pouring out of Pacific Quay alone but despite it all, the majority of Scots voters, from anywhere, are rejecting them.

      And we really can reject BBC tory propaganda the only place it matters, at the ballot box. It must be driving the liggers o the beeb mad but its much the same across Europe. Liberal progressive voters always voting for liberal progressive politics.

      Tory BBC led monstering knows no borders either. They got us out of Europe, regardless of the real cost, but they either blackout liberal Europe or they monster it. Look at how Merkel is either always on the verge of losing or she’s an immigration catastrophe, for teamGB.

      Look at it, great British neo fascism in all its rule Britannia glory. If you know any Mexicans, be angry.

      http://archive.is/Z4bun

      Why did the Sexpot Trot keep so quiet about his (MUCH younger) third wife? An insight into the marriage of Jeremy Corbyn and Laura Alvarez

      Jeremy Corbyn has long been keen to stand up for the interests of Mexico

      Today the Mail can shine a light on his marriage to Laura Alvarez
      Very few people were even aware he had a wife until recently

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Liz g
      It’s what I was trained to do, I just didn’t know it was still rattling about in there, which is nice. 🙂

    266. Liz g says:

      Heedtracker @ 3.47
      Your right it’s disgusting they way that the BBC and the politicians engineer remembrance day to promote their agenda’s.
      I don’t take anything to do with it.
      I think more and more people are beginning to see it that way too.
      No one is forgetting the war dead,we just are not letting them be used anymore.

    267. Liz g says:

      Cameron B Brodie @ 4.05
      Well you know what they say Cameron..use it or loose it.
      The exception that proves the rule though is Commas.
      Not using comma’s,as I am sure you know to you’re cost,makes everyone else loose it… allegedly!!lol.

    268. heedtracker says:

      We can bash on and on about relentless tory propaganda pouring out of Pacific Quay alone but despite it all, the majority of Scots voters, from anywhere, are rejecting them. Its only PR parliament that allows us reject them though. FPTP and the Lords makes us almost completely irrelevant.

      Is what I forgot to add sorry.

    269. Bob Costello says:

      To the people who have commented (Complete with unnecessary expletives)on snippets from my comment , thanks for taking the time to read what I said. It is a pity you could not “understand” what I said,and followed up with a long list of things Trump has said of which I knew every single one, I think that most people who have been watching the American election probably knew it all too as most of the papers and media were behind Clinton and there was a constant feed of Trump bad ( sound familiar)
      However this was partly why I had the opinion of him that I did which it would seem most of you missed as well.

      The propose of my comment which ,it would appear most of you conveniently missed. Was my concern that the first minister of Scotland would get her self into such a position of openly supporting a candidate who in all probability would have taken us to war with Russia and one or two of the brighter ones among you might just be aware that at this present time there are Russian missiles trained on America’s car park for trident submarines less than 20 miles from Glasgow.

      Now that was bad enough but she then compounded this silly position by , yes, acting like a petulant child when her favourite person lost the election. The same person by the way that herself came out against Scottish independence, which is , just in case any one (including Nicola) has forgotten is the sole propose in life of the leader of the SNP,at the same time as potentially alienating one of our largest trading partners.

      My concern is not that Clinton lost the election and Trump won. That is more of a problem for the American people. No, my concern is that this has shown a flaw in the sense of judgement in the first minister of Scotland , the person who we have thrown our hopes of independence with.

    270. Liz g says:

      Bob Costello @ 6.20
      I saw what Nicola said about Clinton a bit different.
      Other than evade the question,which would have had it’s own repercussions here in the Scottish (stoap laughing) Media.
      She picked one,wasnt her fault the two choices were crap!
      Everything I saw but I admit I didn’t see everything,the first minister gave the reason for her choice as the feminist one.
      Rubbish reason I agree but again that wasn’t an issue of Nicola Sturgeons making.
      But it gave her a reasonable reason.
      To be against Trump IMHO she didn’t have a choice.
      To speak against him and take action against him I think was a position she took to send out the signal she wants to in Scotland.
      Mindful of what has gone on in England since Brexit I thought it was a pretty smart move,to use global events to reinforce her view here.
      Why should she care what America thinks,keepin Scotland steady is what we pay her for.

    271. K1 says:

      Thing is Bob others have just as ‘valid’ opinion’s on the subject matter as you do and you haven’t even had the good grace to reply to any of them on their own merits instead selectively dismissing them cause ‘language’. This ‘holier than thou’ schtick is what is childish imv. So you have an opinion and others disagree…your response to that is ‘scold’ some more, whilst never addressing the merits of others’ views. But you expect others to ‘value’ your input? Phulease…

      Do grow up man.

    272. heedtracker says:

      Now that was bad enough but she then compounded this silly position by , yes, acting like a petulant child when her favourite person lost the election.”

      Pres Trump’s just as much a NO vote as Clinton is Bob. He may even be a much more aggressive NO. In all likelihood he will be. Its how fascists work, a shared hate of democracy. But we are going to get Pres Trump says vote NO rammed down our throats by the BBC in particular, from now on.

      So petulant child Sturgeon was and is hardly making much of a difference, who she backed or even if she had kept quiet, or she’s left it to the real men, like you Bob and Mackenna, and all the ageing pot bellied liggers daily raging away at Scottish democracy.

      Do you see now, Bob? The petulant child was damned, by teamGBists like you, no matter what the outcome of the US election and no matter what she said.

      And she said the right things throughout, unless you’re a toryboy Bob.

    273. robertknight says:

      O/T

      Had a reply from the beloved state broadcaster about a complaint I submitted regarding a contributor on their “comments” section who described the FM as “pure scum”.

      BBC response as follows:

      “Dear BBC Visitor

      Further to your complaint about some of the content on a BBC website (reference number P37337594), we have decided that it does not contravene the House Rules and are going to leave it on site.”

      Can’t wait for the next opportunity to describe Maggie May as “pure scum” to see what happens to my comment!

    274. Bob Costello says:

      K1 and heedtracker and any one else that I have missed ( kind of difficult to actually respond individually on a subject that has so many postings ). Firstly I do not “expect” any one to “value” my input., I have an opinion crafted by long campaigning for independence. I have sweated blood and tears for it and my concern is that along with everyone else who have put their all into this cause it could be wasted by thoughtless acts like we witnessed last week.
      Heedtracker, I have not heard anything from Trump of a negative nature regarding independence, but this kind of thoughtless intervention could very well engender some. To use words like Tory boy and team GBists shows simply that you know nothing of me.
      You know lads, this all boils down to democracy and free speech. Do you think you serve these ideals well when you try to shut down debate and call people who are offering an honest opinion silly names, and seek to abuse them. I dont know if you noticed but that is the very behaviour that you are accusing Trump off and guess what you even got the term right, yes it is called fascism,
      Can I give you some advice ? never be afraid of constructive criticism as it is not there to destroy but to improve and change. Do you remember these awful Trump rallies where people with a voice were abused and in many cases attacked by people who it seemed were twisted by some strange illogical hero worship cult. Well that is what you are doing.
      No one should be above reproach and everyone can make mistakes but it takes a big person to admit them.
      By the way I do not have a pot belie and what in the name of heaven is a ligger?

    275. yesindyref2 says:

      So thank goodness Sturgeon has seen sense and is to write a letter to Trump congratulating him on his Presidency and will emphasise the long-standing ties between Scotland and the US. Perhaps she was influence by Paul Hutcheon’s articles, and the views of the international relations professionals who said she’s got it way wrong taking sides with one candidate – Clinton.

      So just in case she wants to voice an opinion in the forthcoming elections in Germany, France, or wherever else in the world like Australia, Canada, Papua New Guinea, that she gets asked about, I’ve composed her standard reply, which some bod in her Government like an international relations media consultant should have done for her in the first place, long ago.

      “Well, Brian / Linda / Mary / Bob, Scotland and X have always had close ties, and we hope that whoever is elected Y, we will continue to do so. Scotland is an inclusive and outward-looking country and we will be very happy to work together with anyone in the interests of world peace, inclusivity, equality, fairness, the nobleness of spirit and all positive things like that. Good luck to the 2 / 3 / 4 N contestants.”

    276. Bob Costello says:

      Liz , quite simply ,she did not have to say anything and that would have been the true diplomatic, and wise thing to do.

    277. heedtracker says:

      Can I give you some advice ? never be afraid of constructive criticism as it is not there to destroy but to improve and change.

      Thanks Bob. Here’s Pres Trump on Scottish independence, rancid the Graun style, because they’re so progressive and liberal at the Guardian.

      http://archive.is/CUhyd

      “However, Trump believed Cameron should have ruled out a second Scottish independence referendum for another half century.

      Speaking of a potential rerun of last year’s independence referendum, he said: “I don’t know how they can do that – go through all that again.

      I’ve never heard of a thing like that. It’s crazy.”
      In an interview with Scotland’s Press and Journal newspaper, he added: “You would’ve thought that Cameron, or whoever was planning it, would’ve said ‘we’ll do this now but if we win you can’t do it for another 50 years’.”

      So there you go Bob, from

      Heedtracker, I have not heard anything from Trump of a negative nature regarding independence, but this kind of thoughtless intervention could very well engender some.

      to, all of the above, you learned something on WoS comment section. And calling YES votes like me fascists for disagreeing with you, Mackenna and chums, for your “grow up Sturgeon” and “petulant child” stuff is a bit weird. Why use this kind of language, if you want to be taken seriously?

      You probably don’t even know what fascism means Bob. Fledgling Scottish democracy attracts all kinds of nutters, Trump included.

    278. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:

      Nice to see you happy again. If only we could have a genius like you, who never prfoers and opinon on anything, as its so clever and sensible, on that fence of yours, the fence of wiseness:D

    279. Grouse Beater says:

      Bob Costello: “Quite simply ,she did not have to say anything and that would have been the true diplomatic, and wise thing to do.”

      The contradictions I’m reading here from so-called dyed in the wool independence supports is nauseas.

      Either you have moral principles or you pretend you have and jettison them at the merest whim.

      What’s the point in hoping for strong leadership, and then hoping the leadership shuts the hell up?

    280. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      Compare these two:

      “You Mr X are a sexist xenophobic pig and I won’t work with you, you scumbag”.

      to

      “I value social inclusivity and equality and I will be happy to work with you on that basis Mr X”.

      Now, which one do you think the Leader / First Minister / Prime Minister / President of a democratic country should use in terms of International Relations?

    281. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater

      Keep your mouth shut and grow up petulant child.

      Latest Trump news in Graun. UKIP and the tories watch and wonder.

      “Donald Trump’s immigration plans: start by deporting 3 million ‘criminals’

      Speaking to 60 Minutes, president-elect says Mexico border wall would partially consist of fencing: ‘I’m very good at this. It’s called construction’

    282. Grousde Beater says:

      Yesindyref2: “Compare these two:”

      Who but an arrogant fool publishes what they think Nicola Sturgeon should have said?

    283. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed
      Thanks, very kind of you, but I profer my opinion on lots of things, even to the preferred construction of the fence, seating arrangements, water supply, portable brewery and distillery, food supply and goodies. My fence is very well kitted out.

    284. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      13 November, 2016 at 9:29 pm
      @Heed
      Compare these two:

      Its done now, give it a rest. If Sturgeon’s pro Clinton and anti Trump stance has caused long term damage for US and Scotland relations, then you can gloat about how juvenile she is.

      Sturgeon did what she did for a whole range of reasons and none of them warrant being told to grow up. Would the liggers out there tell PM May to grow up? Its laughable really but that’s yoon culture in Scotland for you.

    285. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker: “[The advice is] … keep your mouth shut and grow up petulant child. Latest Trump news in Graun. UKIP and the tories watch and wonder. “Donald Trump’s immigration plans: start by deporting 3 million ‘criminals’

      Aye, dark times.

      I read one mid-West hard working car mechanic say “Trump is crazy but I’d vote for him just to see what happens.”

      Unfortunately, he didn’t seem to calculate that ‘crazy’ Trump might take the US of Amnesia back to the stone age, as well as the rest of us.

    286. yesindyref2 says:

      @Heed “Its done now, give it a rest.

      and then proceeds to an attempted insult (not a very good one). Ah I get it, you think in some way your opinion is right, and everyone else’s is wrong.

      Not so, young grasshopper.

      @Grouse Beater “The contradictions I’m reading here from so-called dyed in the wool independence supports is nauseas.

      Ah, I get it, if people don’t agree with you about absolutely everything, then we don’t support Independence.

      Seems support for Independence, taking into account all the different things and different people with different opinions, just shrunk to 100.

      Damn. We’ll never get there. Oh, sorry, I forgot. You’ll never get there.

    287. Bob Costello says:

      Heed case and Grouse drinker , neither of you make much sense and really cant hold a constructive debate therefore I will leave you to your illusion. Have a good night boys ( or girls)but this one sided discussion is at an end.

    288. Grouse Beater says:

      Yesindyref2: “Ah, I get it, if people don’t agree with you about absolutely everything,”

      Groan! It isn’t an issue of you versus me, but you and others measuring yourself up against Nicola Sturgeon.

      I recommend you find another hobby.

    289. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      13 November, 2016 at 9:56 pm
      @Heed “Its done now, give it a rest.

      and then proceeds to an attempted insult (not a very good one). Ah I get it, you think in some way your opinion is right, and everyone else’s is wrong.

      Ok one more shot. You and assorted commentators have expressed the opinion that you think Sturgeon was wrong, based on her being like a petulant child who should grow up, or she should not take sides in a foreign election, as its bad for relations with those countries.

      Well done, we get it, Sturgeon bad.

    290. yesindyref2 says:

      @Grouse, @Heed
      It’s been real but I’m knackered, so I’m going to leave you two Yoons to it, to knock out your policy for converting people to your cause – whatever it is.

    291. heedtracker says:

      yesindyref2 says:
      13 November, 2016 at 10:12 pm
      @Grouse, @Heed
      It’s been real but I’m knackered,

      It is knackering slagging of our First Minster. Women eh? Can’t live with them, cant refute their policies and views.

    292. Grouse Beater says:

      Heedtracker, I just loved this infantile remark from Yesindyref2-but-Sturgeon-is-inexperienced:

      “I’m going to leave you two Yoons to it, to knock out your policy for converting people to your cause.”

    293. Liz g says:

      Bob Costello @ 9.10
      While I agree that she could have said nothing.
      I don’t agree that she should have.
      Why not take the opportunity to re-enforce that Scotland’s taking no part of this crap.
      How would it hurt her or us really?
      The media would have paned her no matter what she did.
      So nothing to loose there.
      If Scotland has any impact on America …well one half of it and it’s the half of it,rightly or wrongly that doesn’t like Trump,would agree with her.
      If she agreed with them why not line up with them??
      But mainly her comments distance us from Farage and his ilk , that is not only relevant here but also important.
      So I am fine with it , it’s no our place to affect America,and we couldn’t even if we wanted to but if what goes on in America advanced Scottish Independence ..nae bother…
      Not forgetting that even if getting on the wrong side of Trump has consequences for Scotland….So what… it’s a price I would pay.
      She should always speak out… there is a time and a place for diplomacy but there’s also a time and a place for leadership.
      I am pretty confident which one need’s prioritised right now.

    294. Andrew Mclean says:

      Now the handbags are back under the seats, and the lipgloss reapplied, there is something I read about Trump, maybe due to his relationship with his mother, is that he only seems to respect powerful women who stand up to him.

      Anyway the carnival is over, regardless of what us poor chaps here might have said, and given how touchy some are it would have been a lot worse, arguments over spilled milk, or not are pointless.

      Already the absolute statements made by Trump are being tempered by the reality of office, when the NSA, CIA, FBI, Military all have their top secret briefings, poor Mr Trump will hear and see things from an entirely new angle.

      Some leaders said some pretty bad things about him but were called well before Mrs May who sat on the fence, so that makes any criticism mute.

    295. heedtracker says:

      Grouse Beater says:
      13 November, 2016 at 10:40 pm
      Heedtracker, I just loved this infantile remark from Yesindyref2-but-Sturgeon-is-inexperienced:

      Now come on GB, us lads know exactly how to handle women who get out of hand and above themselves. Women types always respond very well to being told to grow up and stop being petulant children. It’s highly effective in putting them in their place and making sure they know exactly who’s in charge.

      Aren’t they lucky too. Our exhausted Sturgeon Bad chums, now in bed, are, well you mentioned Father Ted lately and they’re a neat example of just one of the reasons Ted and Dougal are timeless satirical genius.

    296. K1 says:

      ‘I have not heard anything from Trump of a negative nature regarding independence,…’

      Heed gives you the example that you have never ‘heard of’ and you don’t acknowledge that or respond to any of the other points that he’s made.

      ‘Do you think you serve these ideals well when you try to shut down debate and call people who are offering an honest opinion silly names, and seek to abuse them…’

      Says the guy who then goes on to address the two posters who are attempting to have an actual debate with him about what he is actually talking about: ‘Heed case and Grouse drinker’.

      ‘Can I give you some advice ? never be afraid of constructive criticism as it is not there to destroy but to improve and change.’

      Says the guy who actually won’t respond in any gracious way to any of the points in opposition to ‘his’ opinion.

      ‘Do you remember these awful Trump rallies where people with a voice were abused and in many cases attacked by people who it seemed were twisted by some strange illogical hero worship cult.’

      This is part of the very point people are basing their view of this POTUS elect on, he’s the one that was ‘dog whistling’ his ‘adherents’ to attack those at his rallies who were objecting to his invective against Muslims and the threat of building a wall to keep Mexicans out. And of course his abject misogyny which was something Nicola could not casually skip over? Same as all the other political managers in Scotland, who also made the exact same observation regarding Trump and duly took a stance.

      You are the one stating that our FM should have had a neutral response regarding a direct question about her preferred candidate, in light of the ‘actual’ reality of what was taking place during that election. I can understand Her response was as ‘natural’ as any sane person’s would be given the situation that was unfolding Bob.

      We can ‘argue’ the toss about the rights and wrongs of her stating it, but we won’t find agreement, will we, because it is you who is insisting that your view is ‘right’ and those of us who disagree with your ‘view’ are being accused by you of shutting down the debate?

      Look back over the entire exchange on this subject on this thread Bob…some of us were discussing before your input and some of us cordially ‘let it be’ earlier in the thread having had a frank exchange of views.

      I’m not for a moment suggesting you ‘shouldn’t’ express your view and it is ‘low’ of you to suggest that is what is happening in these exchanges. What I am saying is that you are ‘forcing’ your opinion and indulging in the very behaviour that you are explicitly stating that others are indulging in, closer to the truth…they are just disagreeing with your viewpoint on this.

      ‘No one should be above reproach and everyone can make mistakes but it takes a big person to admit them’

      ‘yesindyref2 says:
      13 November, 2016 at 9:06 pm
      So thank goodness Sturgeon has seen sense and is to write a letter to Trump congratulating him on his Presidency and will emphasise the long-standing ties between Scotland and the US.’

      Happy now Bob?

      Turns out our FM is a consummately ‘big person’.

      I’ve no problem with her stating her preference given the context as I outlined above and further I support her reasoning on the matter:

      ‘I never want to be, I am not prepared to be, a politician that maintains a diplomatic silence in the face of attitudes of racism, sexism, misogyny or intolerance of any kind.

      ‘I think it is important today that, firstly, I hope that President-elect Trump turns out to be a president very different to the kind of candidate he was and reaches out to those who felt vilified by his campaign, but people of progressive opinion the world over, I think, do have to stand up for the values of tolerance and respect for diversity and difference.’

      And that is ‘why’ I am still of the opinion that she did the appropriate thing by ‘speaking out’ in the first instance.

      She’s no daft. She may now send the ‘protocol’ letter but she took a stance that is ‘on record’ of her ‘true’ position. Good on her.

    297. Andrew Mclean says:

      Trump ” I said what I had to to win”
      He doesn’t like what he said, what would he think of those that by their silence seemed too?

    298. K1 says:

      ‘…us lads know exactly how to handle women who get out of hand and above themselves. Women types always respond very well to being told to grow up and stop being petulant children. It’s highly effective in putting them in their place and making sure they know exactly who’s in charge.’

      Aye Heed, spotted that all the way through…incredible how people just don’t ‘see themsel’s as ithers see them’ 😉

    299. K1 says:

      Aye Andrew…he’ll always know where he is wi Nicola.

    300. heedtracker says:

      Aye Heed, spotted that all the way through…incredible how people just don’t ‘see themsel’s as ithers see them’

      looking at a Sturgeon women type right now. So must try the MacKennaesque “stop being a petulant child and grow up” technique, but only when she gets out of hand and above her place.

      I’ll let you know how it goes K1:-(

    301. K1 says:

      Lookin’ forward tae seein’ you doon at the A&E Heed 😉

    302. heedtracker says:

      K1 says:

      Well just consider how Sturgeon debated in the 2015 GE national tv debates. BBC vote NO Scotland tries to weewee all over it but…rather puts in to perspective the nonsense farted out by Mackenna, let alone the grow Sturgeon schlubs btl here.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32328664

    303. yesindyref2 says:

      Sigh.

      @Heed “Women eh? Can’t live with them, cant refute their policies and views.”

      You (and K1) are the only ones to make a point of Sturgeon being a woman, rather than the First Minister of Scotland. What does that tell you about yourselves …

      @Grouse “The contradictions I’m reading here from so-called dyed in the wool independence supports is nauseas.” (in reply to Bob Costello)

      Perhaps you should try googling “Bob Costello YES bus” …

      Back to Terminator, there’s more reality there than herein.

    304. Grouse Beater says:

      Andrew: “Already the absolute statements made by Trump are being tempered by the reality of office”

      Don’t kid yourself.

    305. K1 says:

      You, Hutcheon, McKenna and Costello are the only ones throughout who have given credence to Sturgeon as ‘child’ ‘petulant’ etc.

      ‘Sturgeon’ :

      ‘I never want to be, I am not prepared to be, a politician that maintains a diplomatic silence in the face of attitudes of racism, sexism, misogyny or intolerance of any kind.

      Think ‘Sturgeon’ hersel’ makes the case for women as a woman herself in this context in her own statement.

      So it tells me that I’m nuanced in my understanding of the position I am taking and that part of the point that she was making was precisely in defence of women, it’s something she speaks of repeatedly yesindyref2.

      I have no idea what your ‘point’ is in this regard.

    306. K1 says:

      The constant patronising ‘tone’ and inference of others’ points of view that differ from your own as ‘less than’ has become a notable part of your exchanges of late yesindyref2.

      Please stop it.

      ‘Back to Terminator, there’s more reality there than herein.’

    307. heedtracker says:

      ‘Back to Terminator, there’s more reality there than herein.’

      That Sarah Connor really should just grow up. Right lads,
      yesindyref2, what a petulant child she is.

    308. Grouse Beater says:

      KI “The constant patronising ‘tone’ … has become a notable part of your exchanges of late, yesindyref2.

      ‘Fraid so. And the breathless repetition to justify his opinion irks.

      “Theresa May’s congratulation of Donald Trump’s victory was singularly obsequious.” Iain Macwhirter

    309. Corruption doesn’t only exist in China, for sure to all other countries well. So let’s not just point fingers on to anyone. Let’s just do what we have to do as citizens, contribute,and hope for the best.



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