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The Big Split

Posted on February 03, 2016 by

From a Daily Record vox pop today on Scottish Labour’s tax plan.

bigsplit

Seems there are some things nearly everyone agrees on.

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  1. 03 02 16 14:43

    The Big Split | Speymouth

471 to “The Big Split”

  1. cearc says:

    Hahaha,

    Stu, I found a few you missed down the back of the sofa!

  2. Graham MacLure says:

    Labour harvests the grapes of wrath.

  3. X_Sticks says:

    Agreed. 😀

  4. MajorBloodnok says:

    Pretty neutral then.

  5. Brad Millar says:

    seriously who in their right mind vote for the Red Tories and as for Corbyn he becomes more unelectable in England each passing day …. the Blue tories are a shoe in for 2020 GE

  6. Alan Mackintosh says:

    They need to see Pet shop boys graphs! That’ll show them…

  7. joe macfarlane says:

    If this is the most positive comments they had to print, what must the rest have said , they surely would have picked the most positive to print , like to see the rest of the comments collected.

  8. Lesley-Anne says:

    Well that vox pop went down well Daily Record didn’t it?

    Oh that’s right … it DIDN’T! 😀

    Labour’s *ahem* voice of the people speaks to the people and is … erm … told to FECK OFF! 😀

  9. David says:

    You’d struggle to find anyone under the age of 30 that will openly admit to supporting Labour.

  10. heedtracker says:

    Even their dafty “Scots split on Kez plan” headline makes no sense. Come on sweaties, cough up and pay for red/blue toryboy austerity in their Scotland region, we’re bettertogether.

  11. Derick fae Yell says:

    That just made my day.

  12. Proud Cybernat says:

    SNP x 2 = IndyRef2

  13. Macart says:

    The ‘Better Together Tax’ right enough.

    So taxes would be raised in an independent Scotland to pay for services?

    And now Ms Dugdale? Now, apparently, those taxes should be raised to offset cuts by Westminster central government. It would appear that cuts legislation from Westminster shouldn’t be fought, shouldn’t be delayed, shouldn’t even come into debate or negotiation, it should merely be accepted and then offset using piss poor policy and half arsed gifted powers.

    Devolution – the power to offset or mitigate.

    FFS.

    I’ll stick with government that shows a little more spine on behalf of the Scottish electorate.

  14. Tex says:

    Didn’t Labour say during the referendum if we vote Yes to independence we would be paying higher taxes in Scotland than the rUK?

    Paying higher taxes in an independent Scotland is fine but when Westminster controls how much your block grant should be then why should we pay more than the rest of the union?

  15. findlay farquaharson says:

    how sweet it is

  16. Bob Mack says:

    Scots split———-sides laughing at Labour lies.

  17. Iain More says:

    That is another rib gone. Just when I needed a laugh.

    Off Topic now

    I was informed that Britannic TV Aberdeen announced last evening that Britannia Petroleum made losses but today I read that they had actually made a £4.1 Billion Profit in the last year. Somebody is telling huge porkies, I wonder who? Perhaps they both are?????

    I wonder what the pleading poverty BP paid out in Dividends in the last year.

  18. No no no...Yes says:

    Labour’s plan is utter guff and thankfully Kez and Jackie won’t ever get an opportunity to govern Scotland.

    On the Scottish Parliament website there is a handy tool to allow users to calculate the impact of any changes in the Scottish Rate of Income Tax (SRIT):

    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/parliamentarybusiness/74826.aspx

    This is a useful tool, unlike the Labour Party in Scotland.

  19. Stephen Kilday says:

    Labour( especially scottish labour) are the new lib-dems,they can make up policies/promise anything cos they know in their heart of hearts it will be a long time,if ever before they will be in a position to implement anything!

  20. David Wardrope says:

    The last few years have apparantly made me quite cynical (and possibly a bit of a conspiracy theorist), I’m wondering why those quotes about Slab made it into the DR at all.

    At the very least this rag is not overly critical of Scottish Labour, and those quotes could have stood on their own without the “labours finished here” bits attached on to the end.

    I find myself asking, what’s their angle?

  21. mogabee says:

    And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, They are the future of this country, smart and politically engaged.

    Labour, yer tea’s oot. 😀

  22. Is this is the so called “Union Dividend Tax”?

    i.e. an extra tax imposed ONLY upon Scots in a half arsed attempt by Labour’s North British Accounting Unit to raise more money even though the net effect will be zero because any additional money raised from taxes will simply be taken straight back off again by an equal reduction in the Barnett Formula?

    And since there needs to be an expensive bureaucracy to administer it, where exactly is the benefit & onto whom will this benefit fall?

    Onto those folks who used to work in the UK tax offices (HMRC) in Dundee, Cumbernauld and East Kilbride but were made redundant by the British Government?

  23. Hamish McTavish says:

    Is that a sign of the DR beginning to reposition itself and try to win back readers?

    I’d be pretty suspicious in any event because, if they ever do win back readers, they’ll get back into SLab support mode with a vengeance.

    Wouldn’t trust the DR or its stable-mates in any weather.

  24. heedtracker says:

    The ‘Better Together Tax’ right enough.

    They think they have a great big red/blue tory UKOK double whammy for May elections. SNP Holyrood gets BBC style monstered for blue tory England austerity slash and burn, red tory Scotland rage SNP wont hike tax to pay for the damage caused, outrage.

    And where does it UKOK end? With every year on year multi billion Osborne austerity cut, red tory Scotland hikes Scottish PAYE?

    And as per, not one UKOK media freak show tries to explain the economic impact on Scotland, with higher PAYE in only one region of teamGB.

    Usual Pacific Quay empty vote SLab garbage

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35461968

    The state of this crew of UKOK lying hypocrites

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/02/the-guardian-view-on-labour-scottish-tax-pledge-a-big-bold-move

    “Scottish Labour’s new pledge to increase the basic rate of income tax by 1p in the pound is thus a dramatic challenge to the nationalist narrative.”

  25. Tombee says:

    Labour are all over the place. If they were able to bring in a one penny increase across the board. Then offset the affect on the lower paid by giving them a rebate. How would they manage or organise that, how would they identify who qualified and what would the cost of administering that rebate be ?. How would they determine the differentials in rebate to each of the lower paid ?.
    And if they did that and raised the near £500,000,000 they say it would raise, wouldn’t Westminster claw back that amount from the block grant on the principle that none of the 4 nations should gain or loose one over the other ?.
    It’s the usual back of the fag packet policy making that British Labour, in Scotland, are becoming renowned for.

  26. Training Day says:

    This is quite possibly the most stupid, self-destructive and ultimately pointless policy that the Northern branch office could have come up with.

    Although I have faith they can yet outdo themselves before May.

    You’d have needed a heart of stone not to laugh as Dugdale whined incoherently about our children having a ‘possible future’ on Scotland Tonight yesterday.

  27. Iain More says:

    The UKOK creep show can package it how it wants but it is still 1p for Westmidden because they will claw back every single bean of it by reducing the block grant or that should actually read by giving us back even less of “our” money.

  28. bookie from hell says:

    uh oh

    Scotland Bill has to be voted thru HOC AGAIN if agreement is reached

  29. DerekM says:

    Did the peoples chumpion just stick a big knife in their red tory chums backs lol well we always new they were just blue tories in disguise.

    Good to see the kids saying it as it is makes an auld independence activist like me fair proud that our message is being heard by them, but i do wonder why the DR havnt done their usual trick of getting Labour activists to pretend they are ordinary house mums and NHS nurses ,have they wised up do they know we will just tear them to pieces for it.

    lol Rev you have got them bricking it.

  30. Steve Bowers says:

    This is labour waffle, it’s not about increased tax, it’s about attempting to demonise the SNP with something.
    The media is waiting for this afternoons debate with bated breath, the copy has already been written, the video filmed, BBC on standby with a nice new juicy SNP BAAAD story ( staring Glen Campbell)
    Jakie Burd will have her best grin on this evenings reporting Scotland and they’ll roll out the crappy pic of Sturgeon playing table tennis.
    Watch this space !

  31. Capella says:

    Could someone produce a graph which would explain the relationship between Scots Income Tax and Westminster Mendacity. I feel a visual representation would help. Kev?

    https://kairangarm1.wikispaces.com/file/view/graphs_for_kids.png/318490890/graphs_for_kids.png

  32. Alan Crerar says:

    O/T (Iain Muir) Yep, it was announced down here in Glasgow too by Cringe TV that BP had made a ‘huge loss’. Eh, naw Birdie, they made a huge ‘loss’ in their profits down to £4bn from £8bn. The BBC know this. They are not stupid. They are devious, duplicitous lying mouth-pieces for the LabCon Unionists because that sounds like a good Scottish Oily disaster, rather than ‘BP made £4bn profit’.
    We’re watching you, BBC (on iPlayer obviously, having binned my TV Licence years ago)

  33. Giving Goose says:

    Re Hamish McTavish

    The DR is a Unionist organ.
    The DR’s role is to ensure that London rule is continued in Scotland. End of!

    It’s probably a ploy to apply gentle influence to Labour.
    The message is, “Look Labour, sorry for butting in, we’re trying to help, but look, you need to change your tune.”

    The DR; supporter and bedrock of the Union, come what may!

  34. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T but relevant.

    Can you imagine how John Swinney must have the mandarins heads spinning down at the UKOK Treasury in the Fiscal Framework negotiations? The Yoonz insisting that their formula is better for Scotland and Swinney sitting there with a wry smile saying, “Prove it. Show me the figures – ALL of them.”

    Their heids will be burlin’! “We can’t show Swinney our figures because then those damned Scots will know the truth – that the sweaties are keeping us all afloat. That we’re fleecing them stupid.”

    Gawn yersel’ Big John. In aboot them.

  35. K1 says:

    I still cannot believe how much media ‘coverage’ Labour are getting in Scotland. Those few examples above show a tiny glimpse of how far ahead of the commentariat ordinary folks are in terms of the political reality in Scotland right now.

    Meanwhile Kezia Dugdals sits in an STV studio last night putting on a ‘game face’ about ‘her’ prospects at the Holyrood elections. This isn’t about the ‘polls’, this is about the actual fact that we are never voting Labour again.

    When have you ever seen even little ‘vox pops’ like these reveal a consensus that even the DR can’t cover up…there is not a single view above that shows a lack of understanding about this ‘fake policy’ that Dugdale has put forward. Everyone understands, what Kezia could not ‘guarantee’ on Scotland Tonight: the money would have to be ‘ring fenced’ to ensure it was used for the purposes it was being raised for.

    She could not categorically state this. Nor could she honestly tell it as it is…they have no chance of being in any position to implement any of their policies. She should just go out into any street and actually talk to a random dog, even that dog would tell her what her own irrational ‘ego’ is too blind to see: Labour are finished in Scotland.

    Rest in Obscurity.

  36. cearc says:

    Proud Cybernat,

    From Cockers piece,

    http://archive.is/Xtuvl

    It looks like their saying that if we don’t do what they want, they won’t let us choose our own road signs!

  37. Marie Clark says:

    SLAB’s plan would be an absolute administrative nightmare. They don’t seem able to tell us, we the voter, that is, how all this would work. Nae answers as usual.Mibies the APD money again, or are they too embarassed to mention it now after the laughs that they gave us.

    They seem to have forgotten that we Scots are right up there in the politics division 1. We have learned to watch, and more importantly, listen, very very carefully to what they say. We know how to analyse their daft schemes, in fact I think that we probably can understand them better than SLAB ( well sometimes, other times Einstein widnae unerstaun them).

    Anyways, this 1p tax is pish. Are they seriously telling us that they want to raise tax by 1p to mitigate against wastemonsters austerity, that they themselves supported. AYE RIGHT.

    However, the daily record article has cheered me up. Those young folk are on the ball, bodes well for the future.

  38. Petra says:

    Here we go again!

    The National: ‘Rise pledge 60p income tax rate for top 1% of earners.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/rise-pledge-60p-income-tax-rate-for-top-1-of-earners.13181

  39. galamcennalath says:

    When voters give a reason for their decision, sometimes it is just an excuse. A bit like a stray breaking the camel’s back.

    I feel the referendum was like this. A lot of people weren’t sure about voting Yes, the Vow gave them the excuse.

    I do wonder if Labour’s collapse in support is the same. People often say ( one of the five above, in this case ) say it was siding with the Tories. I reckon their gloss was becoming ever more tarnished and the ‘siding with Tories’ was the last stray for a lot of people.

    That said, clearly they are down and almost out! I suspect very few of their remaining voters actually believe they can win anytime soon.

  40. Bob Mack says:

    I amuse myself listening to and reading the comments of such notables as Cochrane. Their desperation for the SNP to accept this Bill is very telling indeed.

    Given that they are all hard line Unionists,then they obviously believe what is in the Bill is to the Unions advantage,whilst at the same time creates a stick with which to beat the SNP as the Party of tax rises.

    Do they honestly think we are that gullible.

    It is done to ensnare permanently rather than liberate,and that is the bottom line.
    One moment they sit sneering at our MP’S and the next they offer them more powers.

    Believe that if you will.Personally I would tell them to stick their powers where the sun don’t shine.

  41. Jimbo says:

    Well, the consensus seems to be that Labour will never be back in power any time soon, if at all.

    No doubt Jackie Baillie will consider that to be good news as it’s easier to lie to your back teeth when in opposition.

  42. Capella says:

    OT Seems the fault on the Forth Bridge was “not predictable” after all and the right measures were taken to fix it.

    “I can’t see that this incident could have been otherwise determined or pre-warned in any other practical way.

    As to the subsequent actions of the team that are now looking after the bridge and reacting to this emergency, it seems to have been entirely appropriate.”
    (Expert opinion at Inquiry)

    Oh dear! Can’t the SNP get anything wrong?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-35485602

  43. Onwards says:

    So the ‘Better Together Tax’ or the ‘Union Dividend Tax’?
    Nice.

    Any more suggestions?

  44. Proud Cybernat says:

    From Cocker’s article:
    “…the Nats would rather accuse London of selling Scotland short than accept the responsibilities they’ve always demanded.”

    Cocker’s bollox! The SNP demand POWERS, NOT ‘responsibilitites’. There’s a BIG difference Cockers and you would do well to learn to distinguish.

    Scotland will not walk blindly into a Yoonyonist trap and demands only what you lot promised when you thought we were about to wlak out of the ‘shotgun marriage’.

    If you want Scotland to remain in your beloved Union then it is YOUR responsibility to deliver on YOUR Vow. If you fail to deliver on YOUR Vow then that’s YOUR problem and Scotland will have its second and final IndyRef to pass judgement on YOUR FAILURE to deliver.

    Bunch o’ Spanners!

  45. galamcennalath says:

    Bob Mack says

    “Their desperation for the SNP to accept this Bill is very telling indeed.”

    Indeed, yes. Basically, if Unionists think it should be implemented, then that is a good indication that there is something wrong with it from a Scottish perspective!

    Their fear, anguish, anger, is all part of a wider mindset. They know they promised more, they know they are trying to short changing the Scots, and they know there is a hidden agenda to reduce Scottish public spending. Most of all, they want the Scots to just accept their offering and shut up for a generation.

    Their piss poor plan may fail, and that really worries them, because what do they do next!?

  46. Marie Clark says:

    @ bookie from hell 2.29. ” Scotland Bill has to be voted through HOC if agreement reached”.

    Well in that case we might as well tell them where to stick it right now. If it’s to go back through HOC it’ll never make it as per any agreement.

    My money is on John Swinney to do the right thing for Scotland. By jings, the yoons are fairly getting their knickers in a twist, as it is looking more and more as if it will be refused. SNP BAAAD.

  47. heedtracker says:

    Uncle Alan of the torygraph explains it all to his reader

    “The crux of the present stand-off concerns the mechanism for calculating Scotland’s block grant after the new taxation powers for Holyrood take effect and the Nats’ demand that Scotland shouldn’t be unduly penalised if its population growth and tax-take is less than those in the rest of the United Kingdom. But the Treasury is arguing that this so-called per capital indexation would effectively mean Scotland being subsidised by taxpayers elsewhere in Britain.

    Whitehall critics of the SNP position claim this amounts to them demanding an enhanced Barnett-formula – or ‘Barnett-plus’ – and of wanting not only to have their cake and eat it but to have someone else’s cake too. That was one of the more polite versions; another, less so, was ‘ they’re behaving like bairns short-changed in a sweetie shop.’

    Another UKOK example of just dirty the Treasury creeps can get. They keep 70% Scots revenue for themselves, keep control of Scots oil industry, green energy, EU fiscal stuff, whisky duty at least £4+ billion but Scots are spoiled now?

    “But the Treasury is arguing that this so-called per capital indexation would effectively mean Scotland being subsidised by taxpayers elsewhere in Britain.”

    But this is what the Treasury, Crash Gordon, BetterTogether, Lord Darling, Bliar McBloater, the queen etc etc all Project Feared the living shit out of their Scotland region to vote NO for, pooling and sharing resources, big strong UKOK shoulders, safe n secure UK, Scotland leading the UK.

    What a difference a NO win makes.

    Also, threw in that Scotch duty £4bn just for toryboy unionist of the great British millennium kevrage, currently lost in UKOK exel spreadsheets and charts.

    You’re welcome kev:D

  48. Hobbit says:

    Perhaps the better idea would be to allow councils up to a 5 percent increase in their council tax charges? Administratively, it would be far more straightforward than trying to put in place a Scottish income tax.

  49. george says:

    ooft

  50. Laura says:

    Split??? Hahaha 🙂

  51. Andy-B says:

    I’m surprised the Daily Record published so many Labour branch bashing quotes.

  52. Lesley-Anne says:

    Hobbit says:
    3 February, 2016 at 3:18 pm

    Perhaps the better idea would be to allow councils up to a 5 percent increase in their council tax charges? Administratively, it would be far more straightforward than trying to put in place a Scottish income tax.

    Whilst your suggestion may appear logical on paper Hobbit remember that 5% rise you talk about would, like the 1p income tax rise, hit the poorest in society the hardest. This is why the SNP have frozen council tax for the eight years they have been in power.

    It is all about who is prepared to the best for the poorest of society as well as society in general. Unfortunately for Labour branch office it is NOT about sound bites!

  53. Papadox says:

    The dead hand of unionism is loosening its grip on my beloved country at last. The pseudo People’s party of Scotland have been found out for their selling of Scotland and its people for silver and ermine in Londinium.

    As for Cochrane, I have only two words for him and the second one is OFF!

    The SG handling of the FRB problem was superb. Well done one and all.

  54. Bill Hume says:

    It matters little how you view this. The reality is that taxpayers in Scotland will be paying more to ameliorate austerity measures we don’t want, imposed by a government we didn’t vote for.

    SNP x 2

  55. Molly says:

    Or Hobbit, how about empty premises make a contribution which would cover emergency services? Seems a bit much you can asset strip a business then leave the council tax payer to pay when bits start falling off it or worse ?

    I can think of one building near me, where the council can’t even find out who owns the different floors so no one can do anything with it but meanwhile it’s just growing more and more dilapidated . When bits seriously do start falling off , it’ll be the services that we pay for who will attend to it .

    Meanwhile the owners can leave it like that I suppose until it has to be demolished for safety, then step forward to sell the land .

  56. Onwards says:

    heedtracker says:
    3 February, 2016 at 3:12 pm

    “..the Nats’ demand that Scotland shouldn’t be unduly penalised if its population growth and tax-take is less than those in the rest of the United Kingdom.”

    That makes sense, because it’s exactly what the forecasters are projecting due to the demographics.
    And when the UK government has been spending disproportionately on infrastructure in London and the South East, then obviously that is going to result in future benefits there.
    A large share of that public spending came from Scottish taxes and revenues over the past few decade.

    The whole point of the no-detriment clause is to keep the baseline as it would have been, before any tax changes are made.

    One good thing is there is plenty of economic opinion on the SNP side, so they can back up the case for fair treatment.

    Whatever happens, this is unfinished business.

  57. David says:

    The coments in the daily record don’t give Labour much hope but what I wonder about is why none of them speak about the need to have a workable, transparent and fair fiscal agreement in place. This has to happen before any income tax increases can be sensibly considered. There is no point in Scotland increasing any income tax if the benefit of this can be removed or offset by a corresponding decrease in UK government financial support for the Scottish government. That is why the fiscal arrangements for the new powers available under Smyth are more important than the powers themselves.

  58. Ken MacColl says:

    There does appear to be a certain unanimity in the views of this vox pop but it may be that the DR is spinning their findings.

  59. Graham MacLure says:

    Ken MacColl @4:02

    It may still be true even if the DR said it.

  60. Thomas William Dunlop says:

    To be fair the vox pop are all from the demographic mostly likely to vote for independence, there least likely to vote for Labour or ave a high opinion of it.

    As it stands the only reasonable way to raise income tax would be Scotland to have complete control of other fiscal stimulatory levers..i.e. indepdendence. So it is curious that none of this is discussed. I see that as the elephant in the room

  61. Garyjc says:

    Us rabid cybernats seem to have developed a new lingua franca for describing the swivel eyed of the Britnat persuasion, particulary those of a supposed journalistic bent, with the increased use of yoons, yoonery, etc. It got me thinking, if the plural is yoons, would the singular be yoo-nit, and what about the collective; an anguish of yoons, a masturbation, or perhaps a flagellation; or maybe even a petulance – although thats probably more suitable for aspiring children’s authors. Just a thought

  62. galamcennalath says:

    If/when the DevoSmithMinus (Scotland) Bill is kicked into the long grass we will be left with one side saying one thing, the other disagreeing.

    From there on it comes down to, ‘who do you trust to do right by Scotland?’

    The problem for WM is that the split on that question isn’t the Indy split of 50:50.

    Many people who voted No have faith in the SNP to manage. Many who won’t even vote SNP for tribal reasons, still say to pollsters that the rate the SNP as competent. Also, only a tiny group actually believe the Scotland Bill represents The Vow.

    If the debate is not explicitly about Indy in the short term, but about promises and aspirations of meaningful powers, then WM is not on firm ground!

    That is why they are crapping themselves!

    It looks to me that failure is in Scotland’s interests and success in WM’s. If WM do what it to pass with John Swinney, then they better start giving him exactly what he considers acceptable.

  63. Marcia says:

    If those opinions are the opinions of most former Labour voters then it does not look good for Labour in May.

    One yardstick that I consider in the run up to polling day is the rating of the leaders of the various parties. For the 2016 election only one has a positive rating and that is not the leader of the Labour Holyrood group. It will be an uphill struggle for those with a negative rating. Same thing happened in 2011. The Leader with the best rating won.

  64. Onwards says:

    >Bob Mack says:
    3 February, 2016 at 2:55 pm

    “I amuse myself listening to and reading the comments of such notables as Cochrane. Their desperation for the SNP to accept this Bill is very telling indeed.

    Given that they are all hard line Unionists,then they obviously believe what is in the Bill is to the Unions advantage,whilst at the same time creates a stick with which to beat the SNP as the Party of tax rises.”
    ——–

    The problem is if the bill is rejected we are all the way back to the start with no change. As if the referendum never happened.

    If the SNP get the best deal they can, it still won’t be enough, but perhaps it is better to accept it as a FIRST STEP.
    It will be an unstable mess, but all the pressure will be to go forwards and enhance it with further tax powers.

    The SNP could accept a flawed deal, making it very clear it is unfinished business. I can then see a home rule referendum, making clear if we don’t get extra powers on top then our economy will suffer.

    Income tax is the step towards FFA, and FFA will inevitably lead to independence. That’s why it is resisted so much.

    Personally, I would be prepared to accept a loss in Barnett formula – which effectively acts as a partial Equalisation mechanism in times of low oil prices, in return for a wide range of genuine economic powers that offer more means to grow the economy and are more likely to lead to independence.

    One step backwards for two steps forward.

    Do we really want to get into a situation where it looks like Scotland is permanently reliant on a subsidy ?
    Because our economy is at a permanent disadvantage through lack of competitive powers ?
    How does that make independence more likely ?

  65. Murray McCallum says:

    Summary of feedback on tax proposal when SLab appears on the TV:

    “A great response”

  66. yesindyref2 says:

    @David Wardrope
    I’ve seen some commentary (forget where) that the Record is moving towards the SNP. I don’t read it, so no idea if that’s true.

    It cold be it’s backing it both ways, or even all ways.

  67. jimnarlene says:

    I shouldn’t laugh, but I will; heartily.

  68. Legerwood says:

    I don’t think ‘Dugdale’ and ‘plan’ go well in the same sentence.

    By the way, if by some remote chance the next SG was formed by a coalition of Labour and LibDems would that mean 2p on income tax?

  69. Edward says:

    Why are Labour in Scotland thick as pig shit?

    Just watching the Budget debate and Labour one after the other slamming the SNP for austerity cuts conveniently ignoring the fact that Osborne has slashed the money coming to Scotland

    As has been highlighted (on WOS Twitter feed) a H.M. Treasury report acknowledged that Scotland would be subject to MINUS 6.8% reduction

    Yes Labour carry on moaning that councils are suffering cuts
    but not content with ignoring that Osborne has been slashing the money coming to Scotland. Labour want the Scottish Government to penalise people in Scotland by adding 1% increase to everyones tax bill.

    What Labour ignore is if the SNP did this, Osborne will further slash the money

  70. yesindyref2 says:

    I had a look at Rev’s twitter and had a great laugh. Not being on Twitter couldn’t look at the hashtag itself, but saw Dugdale’s tweet.

    That’s a disaster, that the leader of the Labour party in Scotland is so strapped for proper resources she has to resort to graphs she doesn’t understand, which if anything like the GERS ones are based on lack of understanding of GERS and well, basically anything of an economics basis, and from a blogger who seems to be more of a Conservative than a Labour supporter. Very sad.

  71. yesindyref2 says:

    @Legerwood
    If they’re using the calculator Baillie borrowed from Danny Alexander, it’d probably be 12p – or even 24p.

  72. Andrew McLean says:

    I was told that the remnant’s of the Labour party in Scotland occasionally venture here in search of guidance, well today is their lucky day, for one day only they can order the How to Win any Election Kit for only $87
    Yes that’s only a one off payment of $87, or pay it up at $87 per month.
    http://www.localvictory.com/learn-how-to-win-any-election.html

    Yes Kezia go for it, I recommend the instalment option!

  73. Macart says:

    @yesindyref2

    Nana brought our attention to graphsgate this morning. I think I threw a disc and ruptured my spleen.

    So worth it. 😀

  74. Dr Jim says:

    The absolute height of Yoonerism

    Jackie Baille defending Labours proposed Tax increase

    “It’s not about the detail it’s the principle”

    I’ll just mosey on off for my dinner now I wanted something nice but have decided on something I don’t like…ON Principle

  75. By “split”, I take it they mean between those who think Kez is an erse and those that’ll set their dug on any Labour activist that comes near their door?

  76. yesindyref2 says:

    @Macart
    It was good. As my son would say “I like pie”.

    For interest, is anyone else in the same boat as me at times, having to sit on my hands in case I say something which gives aid to “the enemy”, or even perhaps gives the game away (in my opinion)?

  77. Another Union Dividend says:

    Is it not still the case that London will cut the block grant if Scottish government increases Income Tax rates?

    Also what is to stop Company directors taking more of their pay by way of dividends which means giving more to London and reducing net tax paid to Scottish government?

  78. yesindyref2 says:

    I just noticed from the Herald:

    ” A cybernat who launched a Twitter hate campaign at a fellow party member using a fake social media account has been fined £1,500.

    Tommy Ball, 32, created a spoof page in George Laird’s name and posted a number of abusive tweets in 2013. “

    I posted a couple of weeks ago that he had an interesting blog about certain things (presuming it’s the same guy), I guess I’d have to advise caution.

  79. Bob Mack says:

    Is it not interesting that the man who is writing to Natalie McGarry regarding the BRIAN SPANNER QC , is a Mr Neil Blair.

    Think about tenuous connections.

    Mr Blair is a qualified lawyer.(qc) He is also Ms Rowlings agent,and has known her since her first published novel.He broke away from the publishing house that first gave her a break and Ms Rowling went with him as his major client. As her agent he will have constant communication on a daily basis,yet there are few tweets from him on Rowlings time line.

    He is her Mr Fixit ( spanner).

    He is also included in and with, her circle of friends.

    Just the thoughts of some friends discussing the issue.

  80. yesindyref2 says:

    @Another Union Dividend
    If directors take money as pay they pay income tax and employer’s and employee’s NI. If they take it as dividend the company pays / will have paid corporation tax and they will pay income tax.

    Income tax will come to Scotland, but both NI and corporation tax go to the Treasury. They’ll roughly balance each other out.

  81. chris kilby says:

    Curiouser and curiouser. Could this possibly be the first sign of a Damascene conversion at Fortress Foote? Finally seeing the writing on the wall (and their plummeting sales figures), is The Record about to turn on Labour just to save its own skin? Rats deserting the sinking ship?

    What a bunch of Canutes. [sic]

  82. Proud Cybernat says:

    Collective term:

    ‘a Slitherin of Yoons’.

  83. yesindyref2 says:

    @chris kilby
    I’ve kept an occasional eye on the Record and it does seem to keep its options open. It could be it’s more opposed to the Tories than for Labour.

  84. Dr Jim says:

    Isn’t it wonderful to see the CLYDESDALE BANK now becoming Independent and their MD declaring on National TV that they’re proud to be so and that now no third party can tell them how to conduct their business

    Portents of the future

  85. One_Scot says:

    I’ve seen some commentary (forget where) that the Record is moving towards the SNP

    At one hundred miles an hour, wielding a machete, eyes wide open, and frothing at the mouth like a demented lunatic.

  86. Don’t be fooled by the daily stranger, in my opinion its simply a ploy to give people the impression that as Scotland’s champion(I know hilarious given its record of talking down Scotland) that its impartial.

    And is giving people of all political persuasions an opportunity to have their say on Labour’s one pence tax rise.

    As others have pointed out when ewe get nearer to the Holyrood elections it will revert to type.

  87. Brian McHugh says:

    Well said Peter. We get these tiny and brief titbits from the Record (and Media in general) and we get the resulting comments from hopefulls that “maybe this is a sign of change”

    Its not. Its just same old, same old.

    They will be back to SNPbad by the morning.

  88. Clootie says:

    The Blue Tories cut the Scottish budget and cut the budgets retained at Westminster which hit the poorest in society and…then the Red Tories propose that we increase income tax in Scotland across all bands to compensate…we get less and less from the “broad shoulders” of the UK and fill the financial hole from our own pockets.

    In the years to follow Westminster will continue to cut the Scottish grant and further reduce welfare budgets…so we raise the tax in Scotland even higher to fill the hole….then they cut again and the downward spiral accelerates.

    OR…we could vote for Independence instead!

    The Red Tories were the engine house of Better Together. They ensured the pain being suffered by many Scots could be delivered by their fellow unionists at Westminster.

  89. Scallywag says:

    @Garyjc @Proud Cybernat

    What about a Spanner of Yoons

  90. One_Scot says:

    I don’t know much, but I do know one thing, the day the Daily Record moves towards the SNP is the day Scotland becomes Independent.

  91. call me dave says:

    @Dr Jim
    Beat me to it there…I was chuckling away as I listened to that very bit. Irony!

    Independence in microcosm! 🙂

    PS:
    Was also listening to the UK’s Mr Hands (avoiding) answering questions at the Scottish affairs committee. I’m nae wiser really than I was at the start.

    Mandarin speaks ‘Parcel tongue’ only those in Gryffindor can interpret it… over to you Swinney and Sturgeon. 🙁

  92. Capella says:

    Labour and Bernie Sanders under the influence of a dangerously radical cat masterminding world socialism.
    http://on.rt.com/73hy

    The Running Dogs don’t have a chance now.

  93. yesindyref2 says:

    @One_Scot
    There you go 😯

  94. @Bob Mack

    Neil Blair is also Chair of Trustees for Rowling`s charity `Lumos`,

    I do not know if he was the employee of the charity that received £90,001 to £100,000 in wages 2014.

    http://tinyurl.com/glrsshc

  95. pitchfork says:

    Very interesting Scot Finlayson. That opens up a whole additional aspect to demanding payments be made to Lumos. Scandal upon scandal.

  96. Robert Louis says:

    The laughingly titled ‘Scotland’ bill, is a poisoned chalice.

    Scotland has no need for it.

    Swinney should tell Westminster, NO DEAL.

    The whole long winded nonsense of changes and amendments made by Westminster to the Smith recommendations, was designed to achieve one thing, create a package with no meaningful powers, but which can be used to bash and bully the Scots Government, and by extension the people of Scotland.

    The financial ‘powers’ are designed purely to make it easy for Westminster to cut Scotland’s funding, then use their puppet media to tell everyone that ‘oh look Scotland wanted control of tax, and now they are bleating they have no money’. That is ALL those pretendy ‘powers’ are for, nothing else.

    It is the most blatant piece of machiavellian chicanery, Scotland has ever seen from our London colonial overlords.

    On Monday, Swinney needs to send these Westminster clowns homewards to think again, and tell them, ‘mibbes dinnae bother coming back’.

  97. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    One_Scot at 5.57

    It might move towards Tory first if that’s what its owners tell them to do.

  98. Chitterinlicht says:

    Starting to think a certain children’s author is so bitter coz they keep backing political losers aka Labour Party.

    Hey ho

  99. Walter Scott says:

    I’m amazed the Record even printed some of those comments. Maybe the editor was out when it went to press

  100. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert Louis
    Iain McWhirter says the same thing, but that doesn’t give the SNP enough credit. It seems if the per capita indexation is used, that won’t give Scotland extra, but will ensure the “no detriment” clause is upheld. So basically it’s up to the Treasury. If they want the deal, then they can have it, they just have to agree to per capita indexation.

    From the point of view of Independence, every single power and revenue brought to the Scottish parliament, is one step further to FFA and then to Independence the slow and steady route, and one LESS fear and uncertainty to be used in Indy Ref 2 by Project Fear 3 (2 is currently underway anyway).

    Won’t be long now.

  101. louis.b.argyll says:

    As I,(yawn).. and others have said here, (sniff)..

    Why take money out of any Scottish taxpayers pockets, to (scratches head) let the Tory funding shortfall pass unnoticed?
    (yawn)
    Huh?

  102. JLT says:

    Anybody surprised? …anybody? …anyone? ….Kezia? …Jackie? …anyone? …No? …then good.

    Well …it seems that everyone in Scotland has agreed that Scottish Labour are completely and utterly useless, and are not only totally unelectable in this coming election …but in all future elections too.

    Excellent!

  103. Legerwood says:

    yesindyref2 @ 4.25

    I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and assuming they could add 1 and 1 to get 2 but if they are using the Baillie abacus then any answer is possible.

  104. Paula Rose says:

    Am I correct in thinking this would have to be done by tax people working in the south east of England so the extra costs would go to paying them rather than people here?

  105. TD says:

    One Scot 5:57 p.m.

    “I don’t know much, but I do know one thing, the day the Daily Record moves towards the SNP is the day Scotland becomes Independent”

    I think you are giving the Record an undue significance in our journey to independence. If you were right, all we would need to do to get independence is persuade the Record. I really don’t think that is true – their circulation is only around 190,000 or so and falling.

    Better to keep exposing their lies and encouraging people to stop buying it. To put the Record on the critical path to independence makes me feel quite queasy

  106. galamcennalath says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:

    “It might move towards Tory first if that’s what its owners tell them to do.”

    That sounds plausible. Ms Tank Commander certainly seems to be making a play to be the torchbearer for Unionism now that SLab basically stand for nothing.

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    @Paula Rose
    I presume it would be admined and help centred from Revenue Scotland, PO BOX 24068, Victoria Quay, Edinburgh, EH6 9BR.

    But as far as I know all the IR IT work is done down south, so a fair amount of the wages forimplementation would be to the Treasury in terms of revenues (and profit taxes), rather than to the Scottish Government.

    But hey, it’s all pooling and sharing, after all. Charge everyone in Scotland an extra penny and the whole UK gets the benefit.

  108. sinky says:

    John Swinney didnt miss Ian Murray over fiscal framework in his budget closing remarks

  109. The Isolator says:

    I can still hear Sally Magnusson

    “But what are we to do?” on election night 2011.lol.

    Labour in Scotland a complete and utter shambles.

    Pleasing.

  110. frogesque says:

    Personally I’m more comfortable with the Record outside the tent pissing. I can have the bleach spray handy when the need arises.

    The thought of them inside the tent pissing at leisure . . .

  111. Robert Peffers says:

    @Tex says: 3 February, 2016 at 2:07 pm:

    “Didn’t Labour say during the referendum if we vote Yes to independence we would be paying higher taxes in Scotland than the rUK?”

    They did, Tex, but what they didn’t say was that according to the ONS, (Office of National Statistics), Scots have regularly always been paying higher taxes than England and the rest of the UK.

    The statistic, “Per Capita Gross Domestic Product”, (GDP), is the total revenue paid to the UK Treasury by any given area divided by the total population of that given area.

    So looking at the Scottish per Capita GDP compared to either that of England, or of the rest of the UK excluding Scotland, over the years shows Scotland consistently returns a higher per Capita GDP than either England or the rest of the UK.

    Now, spin that as they may, that means per person each Scot contributes more to the UK Treasury than any other country in the United Kingdom and that is with Scotland only getting credited with 8.4% of the oil & gas revenues as Scottish Revenue when 95% of that particular source of revenue is extracted from Scottish territorial Waters. (Now note that Scotland does not actually get that 8.4% it is only a figure used to generate the statistics.)

    Furthermore all other Scottish produced exports, including Scotch Whisky, that are exported from the UK via other than Scottish ports and airports are classed as being exports from that port and not from Scotland.

    In the case of Scotch the largest exporter is, “Diagio”, who not only export the majority of their Scottish Produced exports from England but also r head office in London and thus pay their Taxes as being Engish.

    So there you go – Scots do indeed already get taxed highest in the UK.

  112. louis.b.argyll says:

    Wouldn’t be surprised if vox pop individuals are re-contacted later to magically have changed their minds..

  113. liz says:

    @Boris – well they got this bit completely wrong.

    ”It’s interesting to note, however, that Scotland is not a wealthy area of the United Kingdom and from the point of view of budgets and tax revenues (ignoring the monetary dimension), England would not see much negative impact from Scotland’s departure.”

    This is what happens when your finances are controlled by another country.

  114. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T

    Live Independence livesteaming “Secret Flight Snowden: Michael Gray & Erik Sandberg discuss”

    Michael Gray from the CommonSpace and Erik Sandberg from KILTR discuss today’s article in The National about the secret flight over Scotland to capture Snowden.

    On Now http://tinyurl.com/j8r7sxsThis

  115. heedtracker says:

    If the highly complex settlement penalises Scottish taxpayers and leads to cuts in UK funding for Holyrood, pro-UK parties fear that will increase support for independence. But they also worry that a deal that allows Holyrood to overspend or waste money using UK taxes will undermine English confidence in the union.”

    Rupert Carrell of the Graun, laying down the UKOK law in Scotland tonight. English confidence in the union? UKOK/redtory henchman of the Graun grinching about Scots overspend and waste, I mean come on, its called Westminster for nothing.

    How many other countries have had to endure this level of British bullshit before they finally got shot of them? Quite a lot actually.

  116. heedtracker says:

    Its NOT called Westminster for nothing.

    Chrome auto correct is a yoon.

  117. heedtracker says:

    Westminster? Something is auto correcting Westminster to Westminster, after you hit the submit comment switch.

  118. heedtracker says:

    Its NOT called Waste Monster for nothing, UKOK!

    Auto correct wont beat me:D

  119. mike cassidy says:

    For those wondering how the application of SRIT powers would work in practice

    The Scottish Parliament Information Centre contained this in a February 2014 briefing

    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefingsAndFactsheets/S4/SB_14-14.pdf

    page 12

    Unlike Landfill Tax and Land and Building Transaction Tax, SRIT is not a devolved tax. Income tax including SRIT will continue to be administered by HMRC, “who will therefore be responsible for setting up the necessary systems, identifying Scottish taxpayers, collecting sums due, ensuring compliance, following up unpaid tax, and reporting on performance. Revenues from SRIT will be collected by HMRC along with UK income tax receipts, but will be identified and reported separately and will form an element of the Scottish Government’s budget after 2016” (Scottish Government 2013b).
    The MoU on SRIT sets out the arrangements for overseeing the implementation of SRIT. Before SRIT is implemented, HMRC will issue Scottish tax codes to all Scottish taxpayers within PAYE and SA systems so that Scottish taxpayers declare their status as part of their annual return. Flagging up Scottish taxpayers will allow for more accurate revenue forecasting than the OBR?s current top-down method based on a Scottish share of UK liabilities and receipts.

  120. louis.b.argyll says:

    Auto carrot won’t bent me iether.

  121. Petra says:

    O/T

    Voting in May.

    I came across this in the ‘Long Letter’ section of The National today:

    ”Like most people I have been giving thought as to how best to use my second vote. So Professor Curtice’s article was very timely, as was Tony Grahame’s analysis yesterday. He makes the important point that an overall SNP vote could well mask a different pattern of votes in individual constituencies leading to different outcomes in different regions.

    Readers might like to know about a website called Electoral Calculus which looks at each constituency down to the individual polling stations. Nearer the time I suggest their analysis might be helpful for anyone considering a split vote. For my part I think I shall follow Tony’s advice and stick with a proven winner.” (Peter Craigie Edinburgh).

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/conlist_scot.html

  122. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Once the Establishment Scotland Bill is explained as the bestest devo agreement in world history the SNP should insist that the UK can have these same fantastic powers and we can have all the reserved powers that they already have.

    Fair swap or what?

  123. One_Scot says:

    One Scot 5:57 p.m.

    “I don’t know much, but I do know one thing, the day the Daily Record moves towards the SNP is the day Scotland becomes Independent”

    I think you are giving the Record an undue significance in our journey to independence. If you were right, all we would need to do to get independence is persuade the Record. I really don’t think that is true – their circulation is only around 190,000 or so and falling.

    My apologises, what I wrote was badly worded which I realised after submitting.

    What my point was meant to say was that once Scotland had become Independent would be the day that the Daily Record moved towards the SNP.

  124. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Why do yooz yooz Otto Korreck? Why not juss yooz the setting that hilites questionable speeling, to let yooz chooz to keep or amend?

    Wurks 4 me…

    8=)

  125. Petra says:

    I’ve just been taking a look at these figures! How on earth did we lose the Referendum?

    http://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/conlist_scot.html

  126. Quinie frae Angus says:

    Petra @ 9.06pm

    Sheesh, that’s phenomenal to see.

    Certainly makes one wonder.

  127. louis.b.argyll says:

    Petra, we only just lost..only just, according to officials..

  128. heedtracker says:

    Brian Doonthetoon says:
    3 February, 2016 at 8:57 pm
    Why do yooz yooz Otto Korreck?

    Its not auto correct. Watch.

    Rupert Carrell of rancid The Graun says England is scared that Scotland and Holyrood will widdle away billions and trillions of their hard earned, unlike Westminster.

    Rupert Carrell of rancid The Graun says England is scared that Scotland and Holyrood will widdle away billions and trillions of their hard earned, unlike Westminster.

    Rupert Carrell of rancid The Graun says England is scared that Scotland and Holyrood will widdle away billions and trillions of their hard earned, unlike Waste Monster.

    See?

    It’s because we’re all subsidy junkies in Rupert Carrell’s Scotland region ;P

  129. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Not enough of those who eventually voted NO, had become aware, Petra.

    I dare say more are aware now…
    But do we have a solid majority yet? That is the question.

  130. Sandy says:

    Daily Record trying to get into our good books.
    Maybe they’ve looked at their sales figures.
    The question is, can they be trusted. I think we all know the answer to that.
    Skeekid?

  131. Tam Jardine says:

    The negotiation between John Swinney and his team and the UK government is clearly extremely important for the welfare of Scotland in the coming years (well pre-indy anyway).

    The reaction of the record and Scottish labour to the fiscal framework negotiations is telling. At this time, for these short few weeks the “Scottish” press and all political parties in Scotland should have been full square behind John Swinney in his negotiations.

    Instead of coming up with the ‘Better Together Tax’ and working out how to take an extra £500 million every year out of the pockets of the working people of Scotland at a time when the tories are getting ready to sign a blank cheque for the next generation of offensive Trident submarines, Scottish labour should be biting down and getting behind the Scottish Government.

    The record, “Scotland’s Champion” (as they and they alone describe themselves) describe Swinney’s approach as “surley, dismissive bordering on the dishonest”. If they had Scotland’s best interests at heart (they don’t) they would be backing John to the hilt to get the best possible deal.

    They would accept that if you are up against the treasury you have to be tough, obstinate- you HAVE to make it crystal fucking clear that you are not going to just sign off whatever deal the treasury puts forward.

    Is there anyone, any solitary human in this nation outside of her immediate family who would prefer Jackie Baillie to be negotiating the deal with the treasury on behalf of the Scottish people? That’s one of they rhetorical questions.

    Surley? Dismissive? Obstinate? Do these cretins know what is involved in negotiation?

    This period was the time for slab to show they give a shit about Scotland and not just their electoral prospects. The canny Scottish people get Swinney- he’s a guy they want working on their behalf. The other side, carping frae the sidelines should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. But then its party first, every time.

  132. Robert Peffers says:

    @liz says: 3 February, 2016 at 8:11 pm:

    ” … well they got this bit completely wrong”.

    Aye! Richt! I’ve already posted to that effect on the comments of Calton Jack’s blog.

  133. DerekM says:

    Stewart Hosie says it as it is

    http://stewarthosie.com/

    The answer is unionists stop trying to rob us or we will tell you to get on your bike, obviously Stewart says it a little different but the meaning is the same.

    You cant even be trusted to come up with a fiscal framework for a Scottish bill you created and an agreement you signed in good faith as did we about no detriment in Smith to either the rest of the UK or Scotland.

    Go back to the drawing board yoons and come back when you have fixed it other than that we will continue to tell you to get lost.

  134. galamcennalath says:

    DerekM says:

    “Stewart Hosie says it as it is”

    …. Labour has betrayed Scotland YET AGAIN,

    Scumbags!

  135. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @Tam Jardine at 9.24pm

    I was going to re-quote a bit of Tam’s comment but it’s all good.

    Please, if there are ANY reasonable pro-Labour or pro-Daily Record readers out there reading Wings, please PLEASE take the time to scroll up and read Tam Jardine’s comment at 9.24.

    If there is any time that Labour should have set aside their tribal animosity towards the SNP, and been getting full square behind us during this post-referendum period, it is RIGHT NOW.

    History is not going to look kindly on Scottish Labour after we’ve regained our independence.

    John Swinney, Stewart Hosie and, well, quite honestly, all of our MPs, are going to come out of this with their heads held high and we’ll know they fought.

    I hope they’re able to hold their nerve and keep up the pressure.

    We want the Vow, and we want it Now. Just for starters, obviously. But it’s the very least we expect and deserve.

  136. boris says:

    Adding 1p to income tax in Scotland would (according to Kezia Dugdale bring £500m+ to the Scottish economy.But it might be, (under the no detriment clause) that the block financial allocation from Westminster to the Scottish office would be reduced as a balancing measure.

    It would be better to reduce the massively over financed Scottish Office reducing the ability of Mundell to undermine the Scottish Government in Holyrood.

  137. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 3 February, 2016 at 9:43 pm:

    “DerekM says:

    “Stewart Hosie says it as it is”

    …. Labour has betrayed Scotland YET AGAIN,

    Scumbags!”

    Stewart Hosie is certainly not well known for missing the target and hitting the wall. This time he hit the bull first throw.

  138. Iain says:

    Tam Jardine 9.24
    Way to go, we are going to win and the yoons are in a panic. The end of empire is looming!

  139. Inverclyder says:

    @Tam Jardine at 9.24pm

    That post should be an article on here and re-posted to every like minded site and forwarded to every Labour member online.

  140. Robert Peffers says:

    Anyone else getting the feeling that Cameron is being set-up for a leadership challenge by his party?

  141. galamcennalath says:

    Quinie frae Angus says:

    “We want the Vow, and we want it Now.”

    They used the Vow to win. They won. They renaiged. No news there.

    However, justice has not been done for that transgression! What is they say? ‘The wheels of justice turn slowly’. Perhaps not as slowly as the Yoons would wish.

  142. yesindyref2 says:

    @mike cassidy
    Thanks for the correction, I was talking sh££e. Yes, it’s on their website “The Scottish Parliament has legislated for LBTT and SLfT. Revenue Scotland has the power to administer these taxes only. All other taxes, and the Scottish Rate of Income Tax (SRIT) being introduced on 6 April 2016, remain under the administration of HMRC.”

    I must, I must, I must check my facts!

  143. Iain says:

    What are the yoons going to do when we are independent? Are they going to regret the error of their ways, or are they going to emigrate to England. We should do the decent thing and welcome them into Scottish society, we are one nation and should progress in the whole world, not obsessively dwell on the past. We should be bigger than them, and treat them as members of society, not focus on their past mistakes.

  144. Cadogan Enright says:

    News today. Belfast Heath Trust breaks the record for the worst ever performance in the NHS across the UK for seeing patients with Breast Cancer. Only 9% ‘Red List’ patients seen.

    Not a dickybird on NI BBC – the Unionist Minister in charge not hauled over the coals – total blank on BBC website http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/northern_ireland

    Side bar on front page of Nationalist ‘Irish News’ leads to story inside. Otherwise news blackout.

    Looks like we need an SNP Minister in Belfast in order to attract BBC coverage to our NHS

  145. Dorothy Devine says:

    ” The end of empire is looming” , could we get it to loom pretty quickly , some of us out here are knocking on a bit and this one would like to enjoy having a government that works in an independent Scotland for the benefit of the children and grandchildren of our nation.

    I want to live long enough to witness the changes , improvements and the joy of living in an independent country that looks after its young ,its old and all points in between and with enough generosity to help those in the wider world with open hearts.

  146. Kirsty says:

    Who’d admit to voting Labour now? Who’d even vote for them? They’ve shown their true colours far too clearly in Scotland and they’ll never be able to take that back. No amount of posturing or excuses can hide how deeply they’ve betrayed the very people they claimed they were there to help and protect.

    I’ve said before on here that Labour destroyed themselves by supporting the bankers. Then they finished the job by cosying up to the Tories and Orange Order, etc. during the referendum to stop us being able to make a better life for the very people they claim to represent. People expect the Tories to do what they’ve done. No one’s surprised when the Tories do something to hurt ordinary people (by ordinary, I mean anyone who’s not a millionaire) – it’s what they’re there for. The shock was when Labour followed suit and screwed us all as hard as any Tory would ever do.

    They can’t be forgiven for that – they didn’t just “look after their own” like the Tories would do (and as we all knew they would); they actively betrayed and stabbed in the back the very people they were set up to help, whilst still trying to pretend they had our best interests at heart. That makes them far worse than the Tories in my view. As they say, you can watch a thief; you can’t watch a liar. Labour are liars. They’ve betrayed everything they ever stood for and the people they were supposed to represent. They’re done. It’s no surprise to me that pretty much everyone in Scotland feels the same way.

  147. Tam Jardine says:

    Quinie frae Angus

    I suppose for the record and slab the only hope they have to try and salvage some shred of dignity out of the last few years is if John Swinney does manage to somehow get a good deal from the UK treasury! Only big John can provide any kind of validation for the record’s position and only if he manages to secure a viable long term deal.

    They should be begging him to get a strong settlement for Scotland. They are really petrified he walks away and condemns the whole process. I have no idea whether he will reach an agreement and if I am honest I want him to tell the treasury to GTF.

    If he does negotiate an acceptable framework I can’t imagine it will be anything other than last minute- too much fun leaving them hingin by a thread.

    Guid to read your posts the last few days… dinnae be a stranger!

  148. Papadox says:

    After watching Stewart Hosie in the debate in Westmonster and the interruptions he suffered I concluded that the fiscal framework talks are a joke.

    The English labour MP’s along with Murray are defending their Tory paymasters in their attempt to brow beat the Scottish people into accepting a financial framework that does Scotland down and let’s the tories and labour MP’s feel smug and superior. They (Mundell) and co will try to brow beat the Scots into cringe mode with the help of EBC MSM etc.

    SLAB is truly despicable and their ENGLISH alies are just as bad, Tory unionists with red ties and a white flag. Never mind principals where’s the loot and who do you want stabbed in the back.

    Londinium is determined Scotland will back down come to heel “OR ELSE” might be time to consider resigning from the fraudulent union that was bought in 1707 by the ENGLISH ESTABLISHMENT.

  149. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ Tam Jardine

    Thanks Tam, I just have more time on my hands these days than usual! But I read every Wings post and as many of the comments that I can. Learn so much that way!

    O/T
    Allan Grogan has just announced that he’s resigned from the SSP. No details of why yet, but I know he’s been increasingly unhappy about the messy connections with (or not) RISE…

    I don’t agree fully with his politics, but Allan is, I think a good and genuine person. He’s tried hard to make it work.

  150. Wuffing Dug says:

    Eh?

    Wonder what the responses were really like….

    ****ing labour party, get tae **ck, vote fur them bastirts, ye must be jokin, yer a reporter ye say? Report this ya bass, get oot mah face ya lying radge redcoat hoor.

  151. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Well said Tam, Quinie et al –

    Keep getting flashbacks to the dawn of Sep 19th, 2014, after having watched the count, the results, and seeing a young Yesser, a student, alone outside the Citadel, breaking his heart, in the midst of a panic-attack about what he was going to do now, how would he be able to go back into the Students Union to face all those guffawing Better-Together fuckers, how it would be pointless even going abroad as we’d be the laughing-stock of the world…

    Driving back home, didn’t shed a tear. Just numbness, confusion and grief, aye, but one solid certainty – SLab is finished. Donohoe and the rest of yer mindless bigoted entitled cronies and hingers-on? Youse are done. I can remember it right now. That incredibly intense, cold cold anger, and total conviction that SLab would soon pay the price for its putrid behaviour.

    And now, finally, it’s coming to pass. The bigger dods of dead wood, including The Doughnut, were cleared away last May, but this is the business-end of the reckoning. No amount of bluster from Dugdale, Baillie, Gray or any of them can disguise the hairy-arsed fact that they just don’t matter any more. They are irrelevant.

    SLab’s ‘proposals’ and ‘plans’ constitute nothing more than an unintentionally hilarious death-rattle.

  152. ArtyHetty says:

    Re; Petra@9.06pm

    Can’t remember who said it, but it is something like, if you are thinking conspiracy, think 10 times worse.

    It is questionable, surely, how the SNP, the independence party, could conjure up so much support in a few short months. Many Pro Indy were definitely not SNP, but, that many?

    My intuition was 52- 53% voted YES. I know, but quite often intuition is closer to reality.

    Something doesn’t tally. Too much room for dodgy stuff going on, nothing we can do about it now, We have to however, ensure things are monitored thoroughly at our election in May. I know it was monitored last time, but what with postal votes being taken away to London? We will never know, it’s well covered up, if anything dodgy took place.

    Is it not a tory who has some private business, in the electoral system in Scotland? I am sure many here know who he is.

  153. ScottieDog says:

    BBC2 ‘The War Room’.
    More vilification of Putin as the aggressor forgetting that the Americans accumulated Baltic States after their famous ‘not another step East’ statement.

    Underlying assumption all the way through the documentary is that we have an ‘INDEPENDENT’ deterrent.

    Should never have given into Mrs Dog’s request for the TV licence.

  154. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    Oh what a succinct description of the gut-wrenching disbelief. Not one of us will ever forget it.

    I have a few anecdotes of my own from that night that I’ll write up some time but I can only bear to think of that awful night in very small doses. Your story of the student is quite enough heartbreak for one night.

    Never again.

  155. Capella says:

    Yes the war business is booming though you have to go to Mr Putin’s personal TV station to find out about it.

    “Britain has become the world’s post-9/11 “mercenary kingpin” with hundreds of firms employing thousands of ex-military freebooters in a shadowy industry worth billions, a report by charity War on Want claims.”

    http://on.rt.com/73iu

    Yet another “cost” we won’t have in an Independent Scotland.

  156. Wuffing Dug says:

    See ‘who will speak for England’ is going mental on Twitter.

    I’m going with Spit the Dug.

  157. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Petra

    Good question. Maybe because we didn’t

  158. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Just for some light relief, here’s a splendid sliver of nonsense starring MP Brian Donohoe (as was) which may be of particular interest to history boffins, especially those specialising in constitutional matters…over to you Mr Peffers…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LI83d0JFRXQ

  159. Iain More says:

    Well I watched Swinney making that nameless eejit on Scotland Tonight look and sound really dim. I am being polite about that. SLAB and its Meeja cronies don’t even make a good opposition!

  160. DAILY RECORD PRINTS TRUTH SHOCKER!

    LOL. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day.

  161. tartanpigsy says:

    Ha Ha,

    Belter Stu, I bet that was fun putting out . . .

    In yer craw Davie Cleggoid, Kez, Gordie, the lot o yeez

    Oh aye . . . and Jakey

  162. Still Positive. says:

    Dorothy Devine @ 10.17

    My sentiments exactly.

    Ian Brotherhood @ 11.21

    Wasn’t he the one who claimed (in Parliament?) that there were Russian submarines going up the Clyde?

    Thought only water biscuits or bananas came up the Clyde?

  163. liz says:

    O/T but if you want a laugh have a look at the Rev’s twitter feed. LOL

  164. Ananurhing says:

    @Iain More
    “SLAB and its Meeja cronies don’t even make a good opposition!”

    Here’s a Meeja Lovey who agrees with you.

    “As so often, best questions coming from SNP. Week after week (and not just in PMQs) SNP proves it has become the UK’s main opposition party.”

    Who said this today? Strangely enough, none other than Fraser Nelson.

  165. liz says:

    Alan Grogan should join the SNP after all Jeanne Freeman has and Mhairi Black.

    It is the best avenue for him to push his left wing policy.

  166. Chic McGregor says:

    Robert
    “Anyone else getting the feeling that Cameron is being set-up for a leadership challenge by his party?”

    The vultures have been circling for some years now. (No disrespect intended to vultures).

    The really frightening thing is, when you consider the likely candidates, that in hindsight Cameron could yet turn out to have been the ‘good’ guy.

  167. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Still positive –

    Indeed, ’tis the same dude:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtiR38d5TTg

    He will be remembered for a long time i.e. for about as long as you notice a persistent skidmark before finally jettisoning the underwear as irredeemably fouled.

    For those who aren’t familiar with the man, here he is, keeping it real, ‘communicating with people in the modern age’:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taNsdOMM21M

    And let’s not forget – this consummate heid-the-ba’ was typical of the ‘best’ that Scottish Labour had to offer. Seriously – he was odds-on to keep his seat until approx ten days before the election last year.

    Strange, but true!

  168. Ananurhing says:

    Ian Brotherhood @10.45

    Very well said. My feelings, thoughts, and experiences were remarkably similar to yours. Including trying to console and encourage distraught young people who felt they were the harbingers of change. Which they were, and still are.

    And like you, I knew Slab had just put the gun in their mouth and pulled the trigger.

    Something else that struck me on Sept 19th last year was the amount of south bound traffic on the A9. A constant stream hour after hour all day.

    Make of that what you will.

  169. Cadogan Enright says:

    I am sure you all remember the recent hysterical headlines over 3000 operations being cancelled in N Ireland (small print – over a whole year)

    Here are the equivalent English stats running about 16,000 to 20,000 per quarter https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/cancelled-elective-operations/cancelled-ops-data/

    How many more times bigger is the population of England to Scotland?

  170. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ ananurhing

    I imagine lots of braying rich people having been in residence for the night at their second homes travelling back down to their main homes to join in the celebrations.

    That’s what I make of it.

  171. Lollysmum says:

    Chic McGregor
    The press in English papers are now starting to turn on Cameron & yes I agree – a leadership challenge is looking to be a real possibility in the not too distant future.

  172. K1 says:

    That day was the oddest day of my life living in Scotland. My rage won’t be abated till every one of those rotten bastards is removed from political office in Scotland, top to bottom.

    Also agree when you look at those stats re turn out and results from the GE…are we kidding?

  173. Macart says:

    @Tam Jardine and Ian Brotherhood

    Two outstanding posts and well said.

    When it comes to the fiscal framework and constitutional settlement this isn’t about party politics. This is about Westminster’s delivery of their referendum pledges. The clue for lurkers is in the word ‘settlement’.

    This is where the people of Scotland find out what the word of Cameron and indeed all of the establishment parties politicians, is worth. This is about Scotland’s representation negotiating the best deal they possibly can for the people of Scotland, because a majority of that population asked them to do that very thing.

    Doesn’t matter whether you voted YES or NO at this point, you WILL be affected by a constitutional settlement voted upon by members of parliament from another country and there are a lot more of them than there are Scottish representatives. Welcome to the democratic deficit. They go there not powerless, but certainly with one hand tied behind their back because of that referendum result.

    Every political party in Scotland, every institution, public or private, should be behind our representation and supporting them in whatever way they can and urging them on to securing the best deal possible on behalf of the entire electorate.

    Folk can make up their own minds of course, but it does not appear at the moment, that the Scottish government, the democratically mandated representation of Scotland, enjoys significant support from their peers in Holyrood. They certainly appear to enjoy zero support from our media as has been underlined very clearly by one of the main authors of ‘the VOW’, which y’know is kind of odd seein’ as how they claim to be Scotland’s Champion.

    Political parties and the media should be left in no doubt, this is NOT the time for party politics. This is about the futures of the Scottish electorate at the end of the day. All of the Scottish electorate. How those institutions act during these negotiations will be noted by the population and inform future ballots. How Westminster deals with their referendum obligations and pledges will be under equal close scrutiny, as it should be at all times.

    Safe to say, the actions of certain political parties and sections of the media since the referendum don’t exactly inspire confidence.

  174. Ananurhing says:

    @Quinie frae Angus

    I’m sure you’re right, however I wish I had your certainty that’s all it was.

    They could’ve done that by postal vote.

  175. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @Ananurhing

    Sorry, I didn’t mean I was certain that’s all it was.

    I’m with you: I think there was a lot more to it than that. But without evidence we’re on a hiding to nothing.

    Pity.

  176. Petra says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood says at 10:46 pm … ”Keep getting flashbacks to the dawn of Sep 19th, 2014, after having watched the count, the results, and seeing a young Yesser, a student, alone outside the Citadel, breaking his heart, in the midst of a panic-attack about what he was going to do now, how would he be able to go back into the Students Union to face all those guffawing Better-Together fuckers, how it would be pointless even going abroad as we’d be the laughing-stock of the world…… Driving back home, didn’t shed a tear. Just numbness, confusion and grief, aye, but one solid certainty – SLab is finished……. I can remember it right now. That incredibly intense, cold cold anger, and total conviction that SLab would soon pay the price for its putrid behaviour. And now, finally, it’s coming to pass…”

    Great post Ian and I’m sure that many on here and elsewhere can relate only too well to what you have to say: Will have their own personal recollections of that night and the days that followed … never to be forgotten no doubt.

    Between us my husband and I alone (excluding other relatives / friends) know hundreds of people and less than 10% were voting NO. We sat up that night like millions of others and couldn’t believe what we saw / heard. I’ve experienced ‘loss’ in so many ways over the years and have been absolutely heartbroken and in fact so grief-stricken that I’ve suffered a ‘dark night of the soul’ for those I’ve lost and relative circumstances.

    This was different in that the dream that I had held for a lifetime of a better life for all of us had been annihilated within a few short hours. I cried my eyes out that night and then was absolutely catatonic for three days. I had worked so hard in the lead up to the Referendum, like so many others, and was absolutely shattered and totally inconsolable. My husband eventually told me to get it together and I did of course vowing to fight on … not creep back into the box (one I’d never languished in anyway). When I came round like you I felt that ‘cold, cold anger’ … steely anger and rage in fact … it eventually dissipated leaving me knowing that Labour was finished in Scotland. I had been a shop steward and then a union convenor in the past, not Unionist, and it was well and truly over for me.

    The Daily Record was a main player in manipulating so many people to vote NO. My detestation of that newspaper and the Labour Party knows no bounds now and I wont rest until I see them go right down the stank. The detestation that I have for the Labour Party actually pales into insignificance with the feelings I have for Maggie Thatcher and that’s saying something.

    They swaggered alongside the Tories, before and after, cackling and rubbing their hands in glee. They sold out every man, woman and child in Scotland to remain shackled to one of the most inequitable countries in the World and they are finished now. Chickens coming home to roost as they say and not cackling now.

  177. yesindyref2 says:

    Mathematically:

    1979 Devolution referendum YES 51.6%
    1997 Devolution referendum YES 74.3%

    2014 Independence Referendum YES 44.7%
    20?? Independence Referendum YES 64.4%

    Won’t be long now.

  178. Dr Jim says:

    Who will speak for England

    Well it seems this morning that the most popular choice so far seems to be Nicola Sturgeon

    Is that a case of the English really only hate us till they need their Arses pulled out the fire

    Kinda backfired on the Mail there

    Although it has to be said the Wombles are up there

  179. mealer says:

    Good morning folks,
    theres not a great deal of enthusiasm for the union anymore,is there? Sure,No won by ten points a year and a half ago on the back of a campaign of fear and intimidation,but it’s only among the very old you find much staunch support for London rule.Keep up those little conversations,everyone.Keep dropping those subtle little comments into conversations every day.

  180. Tam Jardine says:

    Macart

    The opposition parties in Scotland have not been supportive at all. They are on an election footing but even so if they had Scotland best interests at heart they be supporting John Swinney who is, after all, acting in his capacity as Finance Secretary of the Scottish Government rather than on a simple party political position.

    Slab, slib and the tories all have much more to gain in terms of their reputations if a good deal for Scotland can be reached whilst the SNP arguably have more to gain on the negotiations failing.

    Ignoring the politics- imagine if John Swinney was going into these vital negotiations not just with the support of the Scottish Parliament but support from all of the Scottish parties? It would hardly weaken his hand and in fact it would put him under more pressure to get a deal.

    The opposition in Scotland act predictably though and can be relied upon to be against the SNP in most things, even when it is in their best interests to support them. Even when it is in the best interests of Scotland. It is one of their main weaknesses.

  181. HaggisHunter says:

    SLabour devoid of talent, carrying a history of corruption and incompetence is demoralised and in melt down.

    They can’t even figure out what they actually aspire Scotland (rather than themselves)to be, the ‘union’ they support has nothing to offer, it is a con based on class hierarchy.

  182. Sinky says:

    BBC snubs Scotland on Question Time panel to-night

    Presenter David Dimbleby
    Panellist Amber Rudd
    Panellist Shabana Mahmood
    Panellist Nigel Farage
    Panellist Sarah Brinton
    Panellist Isabel Oakeshott

    Lib Dems and UKIP represented when the third largest party at Westminster ignored.

    Britannia waves the rules again.

  183. gerry parker says:

    @ Mealer,

    Sorry to be pedantic but No won by 5 points.

    The winning line was 50%, they got 55%.

  184. Dorothy Devine says:

    Sinky ,maybe it’s because the viewing figures in Scotland are so low these days ,and why would you bother pleasing half a dozen Scots?

    OT But I tasted Graham’s ice cream for the first time yesterday and it beats Mackies into a cockit hat!

  185. Gary45% says:

    Ian Brotherhood @12.09am
    Nice wee videos on Donohoe, I noticed on one of them you still hear his voice but his lips are not moving, there is the proof he talks out of his arse.

  186. robertknight says:

    The Daily Re**rd? Is that a newspaper or something?

  187. Inverclyder says:

    Tam Jardine @ 7:43am

    Tam, I prefer to think of them as the Anti Scottish Parties rather than any form of opposition.

    They’re only in it for themselves.

  188. @Brian McHugh says:
    3 February, 2016 at 5:51 pm
    I remember only too well after Winnie Ewing won the Hamilton by -election she given a column in the Daily Stranger.

    Everyone I knew at the time thought that, that rag was going to come out and support independence.

    I never deluded myself into thinking for a moment that it would, its a dyed in the wool unionists rag.

  189. jdman says:

    Who will speak for England?
    eh, how about him?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=18&v=8T-AYKo_ygk

  190. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    mealer at 7.32

    Some significant recent polling figures showed support for independence at around 50% but support for the union at only around 33%. This is a complete reversal of the figures before we entered the referendum campaign

  191. Valerie says:

    I don’t think we can underestimate just how lucky we are to have Swinney at this point in history.

    I feel sick at the thought of any Slabber sitting in that chair, and how quickly they would agree to a deal that would destroy this country finally. There is such an intellectual deficit in that party, it’s not funny.

    I’m at the stage with the Fiscal framework,that I can’t get worked up about it, it was always a sham, and just has to play out. London know they can pretend to play ball, and their Press will back them up.

    The abstainers ride again!!!

    I was quite horrified to see BBC2 airing a programme last night, war gaming confrontation with Russia, and discussing nuclear options.

    This morning the U.S. are blaming Russia for derailing peace talks, so dangerous.

    I hope we get out sooner rather than later, away from these disgusting maniacs.

  192. Valerie says:

    Did you hear one of the Trident subs ran aground last year? Did I miss that on the news???

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/29/if-only-the-nuclear-arsenal-were-fool-proof/

    Who needs enemies with Submarine captains like this?

  193. galamcennalath says:

    Valerie says:

    ” … Fiscal framework … was always a sham, and just has to play out. London know they can pretend to play ball … ”

    I don’t think WM saw it as a sham, destined to fail. I beleve they genuinely thought they would be able to get the SNP to accept a poisoned chalice. Perhaps because they thought the SNP will grab powers and worry later about detail. At every turn they underestimate the leading figures in the SNP.

    It seems amazing what WM and the Tories in particular think they can get away with. That mix of ignorance, arrogance and stupidity time and time again. It will be the death of their Union.

    Yes, thank heavens we have Swinney standing his ground for Scotland.

  194. Iain says:

    O/t Russian t.v. reporting USA rebuilding an abandoned air base 100 miles from Isis bases.

  195. orri says:

    Thing is Cameron has already delivered all he committed to in “The Vow”. A Scotland Bill subject to the whims of Westminster. Labour can deliver nothing as they won’t work with the SNP in the hope that they might persuade those on the government benches to deliver on the promises they made.

  196. Patrick Roden says:

    The Daily redcoat are well aware that they prommissed their own readers, as well as Scotland at large, a ‘Vow’ then told us all that it had then been delivered in ‘Full’

    Now they will be feeling the wrath of Scotland holding them to account, asking them to explain why they were prepared to be part of a plan to deceive the very people they claim to be the ‘Champions’ of.

    If they do become less hostile or less smearing about the SNP, it’s simply an attempt to deceive their own ‘low information readership’ that they are not the lying smearing disgusting rag that has helped to put Scotland back under Tory rule yet again.

    Make no mistake, the Daily Record are a British Nationalist organisation, because the people who own it are part of a Wealthy Elite, who’s only interest is maintaining the status quo that has served them so well for so long.

    I wouldn’t claim they are anti-Scottish so much as pro- wealthy, and I have no doubt that their owners would be quite prepared to lie and deceive people from other parts of the UK, such as Northern England, in order to keep us all in our ‘low information boxes’ working hard (if we are lucky) paying our taxes (unlike a lot of the elite) and keeping quiet (like Labour MSP’s) doing what our betters tell us and believing what our betters tell us is true (like most Labour voters and Rangers fans)

    We have all seen just how disgusting and cowardly the Unionist media is in Scotland this week, and the worse of the lot is the Daily Jackie Bailey!

    Like JB, all they offer Scots is lies and smears, and like JB they will soon find that people have had enough of that garbage.

    Goodbye to bad rubbish!

  197. Rob says:

    Valerie, re. Mr Swinney MSP, I see what you say, but I know what you mean.

    Hi folks, being a reader/follower more than a poster, I’m afraid I’m one of the “lurkers” that get the occasional mention. You kinda have things covered without superfluous comment from the sidelines. I suppose lurker isn’t the worst, but it doest have a happy ring to it. Not sure “Wallflower of Scotland” would be any better. Suggestions?

  198. galamcennalath says:

    Spotted this on Twitter. A perfect appraisal of how the media works!

    https://mobile.twitter.com/METAKNlGHT/status/695187509786058752/photo/1

  199. mealer says:

    Rob 10.11,
    you are tomorrow’s silent majority.

  200. Nana says:

    Have UK labour consulted with the morons in slab

    http://www.labour.org.uk/issues/detail/fair-taxes

  201. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ Rob

    Like you I don’t post often. I enjoy reading all the different comments and seeing and feeling the community that we are and don’t always feel the need to post anything – it’s enough that we’re reading.

    One of the important things about Wings is that as well as the small army of readers who post regularly with their various insights, we have this huge following of regular readers – and huge numbers of unique visitors.

    This means a rising number of people out there in the real world who have begun to see and think more clearly as to the modus operandi of the Corporate Media, and who are then able to pass on this knowledge and awareness to family and friends.

    There is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Wings was hugely responsible (not wholly, but hugely) responsible for hauling us up to 45% last time. We will be an even better-informed populace next time.

    The Corporate Media will fall on their swords. They’re already leaning in a precarious position. Once the critical mass of the people realise it we’re home and dry.

    Long post (I don’t know how to do short ones – few and far between therefore I spill out when I do!). But the point of it was:

    The silent army of readers/lurkers on here are just as important as those who post. We have lives. We have family. We have friends.

    Some of them voted “No” last time. It’s up to us to persuade them to think differently next time.

    But yes, I don’t like the term “lurker” as it’s unnecessarily uncomplimentary. I prefer the image of someone waiting in the theatre WINGS to help those upfront with a piece of a costume, or a prop, or a word to prompt.

  202. K1 says:

    Rob, ‘the choir invisible’…hehe

    You should just jump right in Rob, all posters have unique ways of saying the same thing, a particular turn of phrase or style of delivery from anyone can help something complex ‘sink in’ for any of the choir invisible and other posters.

    If choir invisible isn’t any good, how about ‘the shy yins’. Or ‘alert listeners’, or ‘the quiet posse’… 😉

  203. Capella says:

    @ galamcennalath
    love the non-aligned political flow chart – how true!

  204. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @K1

    I love “the choir invisible”. Goes beautifully with the image of a winged bird soaring up through the sky.

  205. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Wee reminder that Thursday’s John Beattie show usually has Stuart Cosgrove & Eamonn O’Neill’s Media Review from approx 12.45 onwards.

    All the Jakey stuff erupted since their last show, so let’s hear what they make of it all. They wouldn’t ignore it, eh?

    🙂

  206. K1 says:

    That ‘non-aligned satirical flowchart’ just brilliant:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaXNE0HWEAAcQsN.jpg:small

  207. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Kaye Adams warning the nation not to drink its own pish.

    Aye, okay hen, but we should keep swallowing yours? Stroll on…

  208. Bill says:

    Valerie says:
    4 February, 2016 at 9:50 am
    Did you hear one of the Trident subs ran aground last year? Did I miss that on the news???

    http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/01/29/if-only-the-nuclear-arsenal-were-fool-proof/

    We called them boats. Subs were subsistence when we were in foreign port.

  209. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @ Ian B

    Thanks for the timely reminder. Good shout!

    This will be extremely interesting. As much for what it leaves out, as for what is in.

    John Beattie show, 12.45. Media review.

  210. K1 says:

    Quinie, was being a bit tongue ‘n cheek wi that…reference to monty python dead parrot sketch…but we could reclaim it as a Wingsism…as I too can see a certain ‘fit’ for the purpose of replacing the shadowy connotations of ‘lurkers’ 🙂

  211. lochside says:

    Read through earlier recollections of the electoral ‘coup’ of Sept. 18th…..Worst images SLAB pigs and tories laughing…yeah,laughing at defeating the ordinary people of Scotland… dirty backslapping smug bastards.

    The worst though was the iron fist of British imperialism thrust in the faces of our youth…literally by the ragged loyalist scum raging around Glasgow’s freedom Square. These pathetic cowards, organised by their shadowy ‘betters’ terrorising teenage lassies and burning our very own ancient symbol..the saltire… on the profane altar of their brainwashed stupid slavery.

    That day is burned in my mind too…..SLAB never once broke ranks to support the cause of our country. Their careers and allegiance were always with our sworn enemies .. the Tories and the British State.

    They must and will be vanquished for ever.

  212. Dorothy Devine says:

    Rob , how about “silent wings” – rarely seen or heard but we all know they are there!

  213. Macart says:

    @Tam Jardine 7.43am

    Exactly so Tam. I’d go further, much further in my description of the actions of our establishment parties and media and containing anger when typing is no easy thing, let me tell you.

    However, I want our (waves to Rob), ‘silent readership’ to think for themselves. I want them to look at the bare bones of a thing, break a situation down to its basics. This, as we are aware, is not about the SNP or any other party, its about the peoples of Scotland and their representation cutting a deal on their behalf. This is about the fulfillment of pledges made in order to win that vote and of the consequences should that party fail to deliver on their pledges and why there should be consequences for such a failure.

    I want them to look at who has their backs throughout all of this and who is batting for one parliament in preference to the other, or indeed only in it for the furtherance their own party. I want the silent readership to look at the media, look at the establishment parties, look at their motives and make a decision. Which parliament has your back? Who do you trust has the best interests of the Scottish electorate?

    You, Ian and Petra later on, said it all as far as I am concerned, in terms of what I think and what I feel. I don’t need to rehash for the readers what has been put forward so powerfully already. No, I want those readers thinking. 😉

  214. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T

    From yesterday’s The Herald:

    Speaker John Bercow has criticised an SNP MP’s “quite extraordinary behaviour” in the Commons.

    Mr Bercow took aim at Drew Hendry after the MP for Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey left the chamber before exchanges on a topic he raised were completed.

    “extraordinary behaviour”? They just don’t see irony or hypocrisy down in that travesty to democracy known as Westminster, do they?

    Barely a single rUK MP participated in the Scotland Bill debate but all were happy at the end of it to pour out of that midden’s numerous bars and into the division lobbies to vote it down.

    Scots MUST listen to THEM but THEY don’t have to listen to Scots. Once again – one rule for them and another for us.

    The sooner we are out of … etc, etc.

    SNP x 2 = IndyRef 2

  215. Ruby says:

    Shame that J K Rowling gave so much of her money to the Labour Party.

    She must be very angry that she backed such losers!

    J K Rowling & The Labour Party a match made in heaven?

  216. Training Day says:

    @Lochside

    Well said. From the Labour Lords and wannabe Labour Lords cavorting at their ‘celebration party’ with the Tories, to the Hooray Henrys and Henriettas of the NUS screaming their delight at the denial of our self-determination, to the ptomaine in George Square – all of this translates into a chilling resolve that this Labour Party can never, and will never, exist in Scotland again.

  217. Ruby says:

    Pro-rape pick-up artist Roosh V cancels Scottish events over fears for safety of supporters

    What a shame I wanted his supporter identified. I’m pretty sure we would have found ‘Spanner’ in the front row.

  218. Ruby says:

    Donald Trump ‘nominated for Nobel Peace Prize’

    YCBS

  219. michael diamond says:

    Ananurhing 10.45 . I drove back to england on the 19th sep after visiting my mum. And in all my years of driving south to england after seeing family, i never saw traffic as heavy as that heading south either. Something definitely stunk.

  220. Ronnie says:

    @ Rob, K1, Quinie,

    My suggestion-

    ‘Silent Sentinels’

  221. Ronnie says:

    or,

    ‘Wings Watcher’

  222. Ruby says:

    Michelle Mone tightens secrecy around business empire

    Yet another Michelle Mone story in the Herald.

    The Herald seem to be watching her very closely.

  223. call me dave says:

    Should be a quiet FMQs today then… 🙂

    PS:
    All gloom and doom these SNP cuts according to the Herald.

    A snippet from the libraries article:
    ————————————————————–
    Libraries across Scotland have come under threat as a result of budget pressures in recent years, with councillors in Fife reluctantly backing proposals to close 16 in December to save £813,000 despite a grassroots campaign to save them.
    ————————————————————–

    But that is not a done deal according to the latest news..

    https://archive.is/C3h2x

    More on the SNP ‘cuts’ or more truthfully WM cuts + Fife labour mismanagement!

    SNP Cllr D. Alexander explains. 🙂

    https://archive.is/jQaX4

  224. Dr Jim says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Drew Hendry cleared it up with Bercow later, he wasn’t being ill mannered although from the replies you get to questions you wouldn’t blame him

    He had gone to cast his vote on a pensions matter,

    But you’re right they’re arrogant Bastirts who don’t turn up for work just show up en masse to vote against anything to do with SNP

  225. Ruby says:

    https://archive.is/GUpDW

    Homeless man finds shelter next to First Minister’s house

    This story from the Herald made me laugh.

    Who will be the first to spot exactly where the homeless man has pitched his tent?

    Is it next to the First Minister’s house?

  226. gillie says:

    “The Scottish Resistance are figures of fun for many. Recently a reproduction of their T-shirt by the anonymous Brian Spanner Twitter account became a thing, with columnists Alex Massie, David Torrance and comedian Al Murray buying and modelling them. Forty-six were sold in the end with £548 going to JK Rowling’s Lumos charity.”, the National, 31/12/2015

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/scottish-resistance-futile-everyones-favourite-freedom-fighters-have-had-a-bumper-year.11818

  227. cearc says:

    Rob, 10.11

    Good to hear from you.

    Maybe just quiet readers? Anyhow, ‘lurkers’ is in no way meant to be derogatory, just ask anyone who has ventured along to a Wings-knees-up.

  228. K1 says:

    ‘FledWings’?

  229. call me dave says:

    Ouch! Stop it!

    Somebody throw in the towel Kezia’s gets a thrashing again at FMQs.

    Ruthless gets a turn now demanding an extension to Smith Deal negotiations.

    Smith deal is a no deal if it costs Scotland £billions.

  230. X_Sticks says:

    Valerie says:

    “I was quite horrified to see BBC2 airing a programme last night, war gaming confrontation with Russia, and discussing nuclear options.”

    I saw that too Valerie and was dumbfounded by it. A few things crossed my mind – most of which I couldn’t print.

    It was blatant anti-Russian propaganda. It was blatant pro-Trident propaganda.

    Lastly, if those folk were representative of what actually goes on behind the scenes then Dog help us all. They wouldn’t have been out of place in the 19th century british empire discussing which country to knobble next.

    I was absolutely disgusted by the program, but then I don’t expect any better from the bbc any more.

  231. yesindyref2 says:

    @Valerie
    From that link: “Minuteman III launch crew damaged, missile fired”

    Oh, sorry, I misread it. It actually says: “Minuteman III missile damaged, launch crew fired”

    @Ruby
    The Herald wanted to have a page 3 girl but got Michelle Mone instead.

  232. Socrates MacSporran says:

    FMQs was another great day for the members of the Scottish Parliament branch of Masochists are Us.

    Dippity Dug, the Tank Commander and the Fife version of Holy Willie, yet again, got their earses skelped by the Nippy Sweetie.

    They must love it, they keep coming back for more.

    What a shame, however, Jackie Baillie didn’t have a question, I miss the light relief that brings.

  233. Proud Cybernat says:

    ‘Silent Wingers’ (Swingers) – oh, perhaps no’.

  234. yesindyref2 says:

    OT (what was this thread about?)
    Article in Herald about libraries, with the usual getting at Angela Constance while councils are having to cut libraries, floowed by an inevitable poster comment that Swinney is closing libraries.

    Looked up Edinburgh Council audited accounts 2014-15 and with expenditure of £1.473 billion, they have usable reserves of £202 billion – more than 13%. Moray and Glasgow also had reserves of over 10%.

    It’s not Swinney closing libraries, it’s councils closing libraries while sitting on large ysable reserves.

  235. call me dave says:

    A ticking off for some MSPs from the PO Marwick who advises that they should look at FMQs later and consider if they showed themselves in a good light and whether they brought Holyrood chamber into disrepute.

    (Not verbatim but close enough).

    Sturgeon poured particular scorn on Wee Wullie today even I winced a bit.. briefly though 🙂

    SNP x 2

  236. DerekM says:

    It doesnt matter if you post or not Rob that you are there is what is important,and just because you dont post does not make you any less than those of us who do,we are all wingers wear the title with pride because your childrens children will ask one day about how Scotland became free and we wingers will be a big part in that story.

    So dont be shy Scotland we wingers always have room for one more.

  237. Tam Jardine says:

    Inverclyder

    Aye- I think that way as well but I try and be a wee bit more conciliatory from time to time. When I am posting about how party politics should have been set aside for the greater good of Scotland the term opposition seems to be less partisan and more appropriate.

    Stu is always reminding us we are trying to convert rather than berate. Thanks for your post up the thread.

  238. Jack Murphy says:

    First Minister’s Questions TODAY the 4th February.
    The Labour Party’s proposal to raise Income Tax is discussed at length with the First Minister in great form.

    The Scottish Parliament TV will Archive today’s FMQs and upload in the next 1-2 hours.

  239. Ian Brotherhood says:

    I keep asking this in the forlorn hope of getting an answer which makes any sense –

    What is the actual point of Willie Rennie?

    Someone, somewhere, must know…

  240. Golfnut says:

    I wonder if the SNP/Government are planning to put a yay/nay scenario on the Scotland Bill in their manifesto for the coming elections, if the Westminster bilge rats have wind of that, perhaps explains the push towards extending the deadline over discussions.

  241. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    “What is the actual point of Willie Rennie?

    Someone, somewhere, must know…”

    Damn good question!

    Maybe he’s there just to prove that Scotland, contrary to Corporate Media and wider Yoonyoonist assertions, is NOT, in fact, a one-party state?

    Just thinking out loud here.

  242. Rob says:

    Likeing the welcoming responses folks, ‘specially oor Angus Quinie and K1. Imagination now replete with silent choirs of invisible watchers standing sentinel in the wings. Fledwings/Fledgewings, nice.

  243. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Re: Lurkers. What cearc typed. I’m sure there were at least three Lurkers turned up at the Aberdeen get-together on Saturday.

    Reports from those who were there and links to pics can be found at this link and onwards.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/comment-page-31/#comment-2108732
    ——————————————————

    Hi Proud Cybernat.

    You typed,
    “‘Silent Wingers’ (Swingers) – oh, perhaps no’.”

    You don’t think so? Have a read of Bittie Glakit’s post of 7.03pm Sunday evening, which you’ll find via the link above.

    8=)

  244. Robert Peffers says:

    @jdman says: 4 February, 2016 at 9:30 am:

    “Who will speak for England?”

    Last time I looked there was a total of 533 people specifically elected to speak for England in the United Kingdom’s House Of Commons out of a 650 total number of United Kingdom MPs.

    Plus there is a rather larger unelected English faction in the UK’s House of Lords. This includes English Bishops and Archbishops, hereditary Peers and English Law Lords.

    Not to mention a purring Queen of England.

    How many more voices for England do they need and want?

    Especially as the UK media and broadcasters are either state funded or owned by English based private companies?

  245. Almannysbunnet says:

    The leaders of Slab, Slib and Story are simply not up to it. Today’s FMQ just reinforced their total ineptitude. Nicola defeated them with ease. Not so slick Willie, the only Rennie that gives you indigestion. What a bunch of wallopers!

  246. Bob Mack says:

    I wonder which Party the great Keir Hardie would now join if he returned.

    Tories— definitely not. He would then look at the Labour and SNP.

    Labour his Socialist Party are for increasing taxation,charging for prescriptions,charging for education,reducing welfare payments, and keeping Scotland subservient in the Union

    The SNP are the direct opposite of Labour in all these things. I think Keir would have no doubts whatsoever where his Party membership would go

  247. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Cosgrove/O’Neill Review not looking likely to contain mention of Spannergate…

    🙁

  248. Papadox says:

    FMQs today: Kezia Dugdale is a completely immature waste of space with not the slightest idea of reality. Her supporters behind her were pathetic, looked like a school debate (primary) when the teacher was out the room.

    Ruthybaby gets worse by the week with the personality of a wet rag and like Kez no meaningful contribution about anything.

    Willie Rennie Vaccume! They all try to put a smile on their face as they get torn to ribbons by the FM. HOLYROOD works well except for the three opossion parties, or are they all united in contempt for Scotland. Maybe a one party state is the answer.

  249. Ian Brotherhood says:

    John Beattie just claimed that RS audience figures are now 950,000, up 55,000 from ‘the same period last year’.

    Unfortunately, no mention of what that ‘period’ is.

  250. yesindyref2 says:

    OT
    Nice bit of spam:
    “Hey X,

    Love your work.

    It’s Toby here from (Y) Websites”

    I’ve had a couple that said: “Your website is badly put together looks like something out of the age of ugly dinosaurs and we would …”.

    It’s like, hello, insult your potential customer is a great way to build a working relationship based on mutual trust and friendly getting-on-together-ness.

  251. Jack Murphy says:

    First Minister’s Questions 4th February,now Archived and ready to view.
    The Scottish Parliament TV:-
    http://tinyurl.com/jxgxyyg

  252. Papadox says:

    “WHO WILL SPEAK FOR ENGERLAND”

    Think SLAB, SLIBS & S Tories do a very good job. They certainly don’t speak for SCOTLAND.

  253. call me dave says:

    Sturgeon using ‘liberal’ amounts of UJ colouring on both the labour and lib/dems today to paint them both into the Unionist camp along with the Tories, starkly contrasting them to the SNP for public view.

    Ramping up the tactic in readiness for the elections coming up, us against them.

    SNP x 2

    PS:
    New poll in Herald: archive may lose some of the graphs but anyhoo!

    https://archive.is/h2SVk

  254. Graham MacLure says:

    Bob Mack @ 1:02.
    Aye Bob I think you are right. “Don Roberto” got it right with his second “Shotty”.
    As a part time ‘Lurker” I would rather like the word Gallery to be linked to “Fledgewings” or similar. A “Voice from the gallery” is often worth listening to.

  255. Socrates MacSporran says:

    After listening to the media review on the John Beattie Programme, I am utterly convinced – a three-line whip has been handed down by the High Heid Yins at Radio Shortbread: “Jakey Rowling and the Spanner are not to be discussed, under pain of death”.

  256. gerry parker says:

    CMD.

    Missed it all today but e mailled Tricia a wee pat on the back for doing it. FMQ’s has a much wider audience that some of these fools realise.

    Will watch it later.

    I usually watch it till the PO says “Question number 3, Willy Rennie”

    I’ll try and get beyond that today.

    🙂

  257. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Socrates MacSporran –

    Agreed.

    Miss Rowling may have fulfilled many ambitions, but you do have to wonder if becoming an ‘elephant in the room’ was ever one of them.

    In any event, even if you could hide an elephant, ye’d still smell it, eh?

  258. Robert Peffers says:

    @Rob says: 4 February, 2016 at 10:11 am:

    ” … You kinda have things covered without superfluous comment from the sidelines.”

    Nah! There is no such thing as, “a superfluous comment”, on Wings, Rob.

    Wings exists to not only inform but to give a forum for anyone who has something to say. You have to be extremely bad as a Troll to get yourself Modded off Wings.

    Not that anyone gets a free ride here. We expect to have our say but we also expect to have our views questioned.

    “I suppose lurker isn’t the worst, but it doest have a happy ring to it. Not sure “Wallflower of Scotland” would be any better. Suggestions?”

    I prefer, “Silent Majority”, myself as I’m sure there are lots more readers than commenters on Wings.

    As your comment proves the step from reader to commenter is actually painless. Have your say and be sure it will be listened to. Nice to hear from you, Rob. Bide a wee.

  259. Still Positive. says:

    Watching Parliament TV just now and a debate on EU negotiations. Many English Tories are putting the argument for leaving the EU as wanting their country back.

    You could easily interchange EU for Scotland and use the same arguments! Oh the irony!

  260. Bob Mack says:

    The debate in Westminster on the EU is indeed priceless. I am listening to people who are never done praising and longing for the return of the might of “Britain” during the days of Empire ,when Britain ruled over half the world,trying to justify why nobody else should have a say in the way Britain is governed.

    It takes hypocrisy to a new level

  261. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 4 February, 2016 at 11:08 am:

    “Rob , how about “silent wings” – rarely seen or heard but we all know they are there!”

    Ow! I nearly wet myself laughing at your comment, Dorothy.

    But I’ll have to explain. The only bird I know about that can actually fly silently – the rest all flap their wings, is the Owl.

    I immediately though your suggested name was going to be, “Hoolets”.

    Which name, used in a derogatory manner, in Scotland is more appropriately applied to Unionist Trolls.

  262. Fairliered says:

    Ian Brotherhood.
    I thought the purpose of Willie Rennie was to remind children what could happen to them if they don’t stick in at school.

  263. Valerie says:

    I haven’t seen the Winger called

    Iain Grays Subway Lament

    post for ages??? His moniker made me smile. Just like this clip.

    https://m.youtube.com/?hl=en-GB&gl=GB#/watch?v=LfQmg8VSj0E

    The Indy pages are doing good work with memes of Slab MSPs, and their record, and it is Mr Grays turn today.

  264. yesindyref2 says:

    @galamcennalath
    That’s a very interesting website, I’ll have to check it out when I’ve got time to try to work out its bias. Good article though.

  265. yesindyref2 says:

    @galamcennalath, @Nana
    I’ve thought for years that stability in the ME can only be achieved with the help of Iran. It’ll be interesting to see how it plays out with, apparently, sanctions having been lifted and Iran open for business.

  266. Quinie frae Angus says:

    That link from Macart at 1.50 pm is definitely worth a read. Robin McAlpine is also a brave man (alongside Rev Stu Big Hairy Baws).

    He more or less says (and I paraphrase): “Haven’t commented much on the media up till now as I always hoped that I would be able to work WITH the media. But as they’ve more or less blanked me and the Common Weal anyway, well, what the hell? Spannergate needs to be discussed, as do the media’s prejudices against the likes of Wings”.

    Yayyyyyyy!

    http://www.commonspace.scot/articles/3402/robin-mcalpine-the-scottish-media-really

  267. call me dave says:

    Henry Mcleish’s pitch for the EU doesn’t say that Scotland might go it alone this time if England votes to leave only a slight hint.

    “a distraction with huge constitutional consequences, the potential to divide an already fragmented and troubled Britain”

    Many words and some echoes of past history…

    https://archive.is/z1kfh

    I caught the edited version of FMQs and Wee Wullie got off scot free and Kezia was brilliant and the announcer spoke Sturgeons words telling us what she said…. and I thought funny old world init BBC!

  268. Martin Wood says:

    Is it just me or is FMQ turning into a bloodsport….

    Last week it was Ambulance for Dugdale…..

    This week its Dugdale taxed to extinction

    Will Kez keep coming back for more of this?

  269. X_Sticks says:

    @Valerie

    Meant to add this to the post about the bbc2 war scenario programme (I think Nana posted it originally (as usual 😀 )):

    “World War III may be on the horizon, one Swedish general has warned.”

    http://tinyurl.com/jz5dk55

    It seems to be a recurring theme lately. Worrying.

  270. Dr Jim says:

    The media are really closing ranks in the covering up and hiding of this Spanner guy
    Which leads me to wonder that it must be someone well known to them and to Scotland

    Which then starts speculation on who could this odious little squint could be who seems to be aware of all the female SNP MPs and is the media’s plan to have folk guessing at the wrong one to then be threatened with action if wrongly accused

    So I’ll just start by making an Identikit, feel free to chuck any other features I might have missed in the search for this fugitive from justice aided and abetted by his accomplices in the media

    Beard?
    Glasses?
    Might have been on the telly pontificating?
    Maybe a book writer?
    Scottish resistance?

    A few to start off with to try and build a picture of Spanner the craven coward

  271. Proud Cybernat says:

    From Robin MacAlpine (Common Space):

    “JK Rowling uses her ‘small island’ of lawyers to intimidate people who don’t have her wealth and she’s a saint. Philippa Whitford gives up her Christmas to perform surgery which saves lives and she’s a crook.”

    Belter of a quote and so sums up the rotten and thoroughly twisted Corporate Media in this shackled country.

    We see you.

  272. yesindyref2 says:

    @Quinie frae Angus
    Excellent article from McAlpine. I posted a link on Herald (I McW’s article). Daresay it won’t last long …

  273. Petra says:

    O/T

    Nana thanks for the links. All very interesting but the following is really worth watching:

    http://www.thecanary.co/2016/02/03/editor-chief-canary-smashes-austerity-bits-video/

    ‘Max Keiser begins by asking Mendoza if austerity was introduced to trim the debt, but the debt has doubled, then what is the point of it? Her reply is that austerity is actually a “fig leaf” designed to conceal aggressive neoliberal policies. She said ‘’its essential function is to confiscate public assets and to put them into the private space.’’

    ‘’This threat is not challenged by the mainstream media. We can no longer look to them to rigorously report on and hold those in power to account. This is because largely they are one and the same.”

    ‘To take just one recent example, Mendoza highlights the head of the BBC Trust, Rona Fairhead, who continues to sit on the board of HSBC drawing a £500,000 annual salary and is still business ambassador for David Cameron. With the concentration of power from corporations, political elites and the media in a handful of individuals, any notion of a critical, or even impartial, press is laughable.’

    ‘’Over the course of a decade, first (Thatchers) Geoffrey Howe then Nigel Lawson sold off a total of £56bn of public resources to the private sector. Osborne has taken just 6 years as Chancellor to flog £58bn of the nation’s assets.’’

    ‘’Suicide rates have gone up 22% since the Tories got into power.’’

    A study by Oxford University has shown that ‘Approximately 600 of these deaths, between 2010 and 2013, have been directly linked to the Department of Work and Pensions’ implementation of Work Capability Assessments for disabled people and those suffering long-term illness who claim out-of-work sickness benefit. These assessments have led to a further 279,000 acute mental health crises in the same period according to a study by Oxford University.’

    ‘’A rash of people crawling into and dying in wheelie bins.’’

    ‘Austerity: The Demolition of the Welfare State and the Rise of the Zombie Economy’ (Kerry-anne Mendoza).

    Some excellent articles on their site THECANARY.COM

  274. Valerie says:

    @ X Sticks and galamcennalath

    Scary stuff about Turkey. Everything I’ve read about what is happening in that country is sad, and frightening. I holidayed near Marmaris years ago, no way would I go there now. To me, Erdogan is the scariest leader around, next to the House of Saud.

    The really telling thing about the Syrian conflict, is it should be noted that Russia are the only serious pursuant of terrorists, and their superior military, and working with Syrian ground forces, are bringing this conflict to a head. Something all the combined allies haven’t been able to do in 3 years.

    This is why the anti Russian rhetoric is being ramped up. The phoney war is in danger of being exposed, and the Western powers are panicking they will not get the carve up they want, without a puppet regime installed.

    Makes me sick.

  275. Proud Cybernat says:

    Oh and this too from Robin:

    “There is barely a local paper in Scotland that doesn’t rely on local authority advertising to survive so there is little critical reporting of our local democracy, which is in part why it is so awful so often.”

    Take note Scottish CorpMedia because 2017 will see all your pals in local councils all across Scotland removed from office. I wonder which newspapers in Scotland the new SNP councils will be giving their council advertising to?

    Think about it, CorpMedia. Think long and hard about that. That future just about on the horizon right now.

    SNP x 2 2016
    … and then again 2017

  276. Iain More says:

    Off topic

    BBC London Edition reported that Shell made a miserly 7

  277. Robert Peffers says:

    @Ian Brotherhood says: 4 February, 2016 at 12:40 pm:

    ” … What is the actual point of Willie Rennie?”

    It’s the wee pointy top of his wee pointy heid, of course.

    If you meant what purpose does Wee Wullie serve – that is quite a different answer to quite a different question, but, as it isn’t after the watershed hour yet, cannot published here.
    ;-))

  278. Iain More says:

    Start again

    BBC London Edition reported that Shell made a miserly 7 Billion in profit. Not how Britannia TV Aberdeen reported it though as Shell was made to sound positively poverty stricken.

    Not a cheep on Disreporting Jackie as they had plenty of SNP Bad ammo already and to summarise its output SNP BAD followed up by SNP BAD and then SNP BAD again and naturally Aberdeen getting no credit at all for beating the Cellic last night as it went into Ronnie BAD mode. I am just waiting for them to say he is closet member of the SNP!

  279. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Ian Brotherhood:

    Your notion of Jakey R as “The Elephant in the room” tickled me somewhat; however, since she is a rabid UKOKer, surely she better merits the old expression – beloved of you guy who was Rangers’ chairman about 15 incarnations ago: “The 10,000 lb Gorilla in the room”.

    Or maybe, just an ordinary gorilla – not quite as big, important or as potentially destructive as an elephant.

  280. Quinie frae Angus says:

    I hate to interrupt serious topics raised in last few posts with this, but it’s also important.

    Are any Edinburgh-based Wingers fancying going along to this? The Edinburgh South Yes Hub are having a “Race Night” tomorrow night (Fri 5th Feb) in Braidwood Bar, Mayfield Road, to raise urgently needed funds to keep going. As they appear to have had their windows broken overnight this seems especially important that people go along if they can!

    https://twitter.com/IanIwrussell/status/695253554832007169/photo/1

  281. yesindyref2 says:

    OT
    Telegraph must be getting desperate. Sent me a spam to an email address that got on to a spammer list a year or so ago, never used to communicate with them, and I used a disqus signin the few times I posted there.

    So they’re buying spam lists.

  282. geeo says:

    Off topic, but i have just watched Kay Burley interview a friend of Julien Assange, and stated if he leave the embassy he is currently in, he will “be arrested and taken to Sweden to face a rape CHARGE”.

    When the friend of Assange pointed out there actually IS NO charge waiting in sweden, only an allegation to be investigated, Kay Burley replied as so…”I’m sorry, but as a woman for you to say only an allegation is COMPLETELY unacceptable”.

    Hope she is never on jury duty…!

    She got torn a new erse for that comment mind you..

  283. Martin Wood says:

    Dr Jim says:
    4 February, 2016 at 2:47 pm
    The media are really closing ranks in the covering up and hiding of this Spanner guy
    Which leads me to wonder that it must be someone well known to them and to Scotland

    pop over to Scot Goes Pop……

    he sees a similarity between Spanner and some guy called Euan

  284. Lesley-Anne says:

    Just wondering what folks think of my wee *ahem* discussion with Hugh Henry here. 😉

    https://twitter.com/HughHenryMSP/status/695267836600655873

    I was sure that any additional income raised in Scotland through raising taxes etc would be offset by a reduction in the pocket money we receive from Westminster but apparently according to Mr Henry I am wrong! 😉

  285. Petra says:

    O/T

    And at another of your links Nana I see that they outline the groups / their reasons for voting no such as:

    ‘CURRENCY WORRIERS, will never be satisfied until the proposals are crystal clear, and workable.’

    ‘CENTRALISED BANKING WORRIERS, who have already concluded that an Independent Scotland would require the main economic structure and controls to exist within our country.’

    https://yesdayscotland.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/which-of-scotlands-no-voters-will-now-vote-yes/

    We heard yesterday that the Clydesdale Bank is now independent after 100 years. Does anyone on here know if this could be helpful for us at all?

    Excuse my ignorance when I ask if this could be used as our Central Bank.

  286. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Petra (3.02)

    Brilliant post. Cheers.

    And this morning, the awful news about Shell:

    Its profits have slumped to just £7,000,000,000…But shareholders will still get a dividend…And 10,000 workers will have to be thrown overboard because it’s all so profoundly disappointing.

  287. Bill says:

    Dr Jim says:
    4 February, 2016 at 2:47 pm
    The media are really closing ranks in the covering up and hiding of this Spanner guy
    Which leads me to wonder that it must be someone well known to them and to Scotland

    Which then starts speculation on who could this odious little squint could be who seems to be aware of all the female SNP MPs and is the media’s plan to have folk guess

    Jim, you’re going to be surprised how ordinary that quantity surveyor “Brian” actually is.

  288. lumilumi says:

    Sorry, O/T for this topic… But today I saw a couple of my journalist friends here in Finland. (They were mates at uni, somehow ended up as journalists/broadcasters.)

    I’ve directed them to WOS, Bateman, Wee Ginger Dug… (and explained about “Rangers”) and they were horrified. Journalists in Finland grumble about corporate media and lay-offs and demands to produce more “content” in less time for their mindless clickbait website. But they all thought maybe it isn’t as bad here as it is in the UKOK. Yet.

  289. Lesley-Anne says:

    As everyone knows Petra I’m no expert on … well on anything. 😀

    However I think you could be right with regards your question about the Clydesdale bank. As it is now back being an independent entity, I believe, then I see no reason why it could not be our Scottish Central Bank. Perhaps even link it to this.

    http://archive.is/H64EO

  290. Nana says:

    @galamcennalath

    Thanks for that link.

    @Petra

    You are a wonder, you take my links and condense them so well into a few paragraphs which on the whole makes for easy reading. The canary link is actually a follow up interview from one she did last year, She also has a book which is worth reading.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kerry-Anne-Mendoza/e/B00S2P3T30

    I have read Scriptonite daily for a long time and she is a supporter of Scottish independence.

  291. Dorothy Devine says:

    Mr Peffers, I was thinking of wise owls -nae hoolets!

    Glad you had a titter – hope you didn’t have the suggested
    ” accident”.

  292. Petra says:

    @ Lesley-Anne says at 3:33 pm

    Just wondering what folks think of my wee *ahem* discussion with Hugh Henry here. ? I was sure that any additional income raised in Scotland through raising taxes etc would be offset by a reduction in the pocket money we receive from Westminster but apparently according to Mr Henry I am wrong! ?”

    https://twitter.com/HughHenryMSP/status/695267836600655873

    There you go Lesley-Anne. Send him a copy of Nana’s link which will ensure that others (maybe) read it too.

    ‘Tommy Sheppard frustration fiscal framework.’

    ”The Scotland Bill intends to transfer some powers to set and collect taxes to the Scottish Government – hopefully from 2017. When this happens the amount of public spending in Scotland funded by the block grant from Westminster will be reduced. At the heart of what’s going on is a debate about how the reduction will be calculated …..

    This debate will come to a head in the coming weeks. If an agreement is not reached before the Scottish Parliament is dissolved on 23rd March, then it will not be possible to pass the Legislative Consent Motion which is required. It’s time for Labour to stop playing games and line up alongside the Scottish Government, the STUC, and most independent expert opinion and back a position which protects Scotland’s finances and the services on which our people depend.”

    http://tommysheppardmp.scot/index.php/my-blogs/entry/fiscal-framework-an-a-that

  293. Petra says:

    @ Lesley-Anne says at 3:33 pm

    Just wondering what folks think of my wee *ahem* discussion with Hugh Henry here. ? I was sure that any additional income raised in Scotland through raising taxes etc would be offset by a reduction in the pocket money we receive from Westminster but apparently according to Mr Henry I am wrong! ?”

    https://twitter.com/HughHenryMSP/status/695267836600655873

    There you go Lesley-Anne. Send him a copy of Nana’s link which will ensure that others (maybe) read it too.

    ‘Tommy Sheppard frustration fiscal framework.’

    ”The Scotland Bill intends to transfer some powers to set and collect taxes to the Scottish Government – hopefully from 2017. When this happens the amount of public spending in Scotland funded by the block grant from Westminster will be reduced. At the heart of what’s going on is a debate about how the reduction will be calculated …..

    This debate will come to a head in the coming weeks. If an agreement is not reached before the Scottish Parliament is dissolved on 23rd March, then it will not be possible to pass the Legislative Consent Motion which is required. It’s time for Labour to stop playing games and line up alongside the Scottish Government, the STUC, and most independent expert opinion and back a position which protects Scotland’s finances and the services on which our people depend.”

    http://tommysheppardmp.scot/index.php/my-blogs/entry/fiscal-framework-an-a-that

  294. Petra says:

    @ Lesley-Anne says at 3:51 pm …. ”As everyone knows Petra I’m no expert on … well on anything. ? However I think you could be right with regards your question about the Clydesdale bank. As it is now back being an independent entity, I believe, then I see no reason why it could not be our Scottish Central Bank. Perhaps even link it to this.”

    http://archive.is/H64EO

    Really interesting Lesley-Anne and I just love the name ‘BancaAlba’. The way forward for Scotland?

    And a snippet or a dod, lol!:

    ‘Everyone on the Electoral Register in Scotland would have an account opened with BancaAlba and would receive a citizens’ dividend of S£250. The NEF said this would add around S£15m to the money supply every year.

    Duncan McCann, a researcher in economy and finance at NEF, said: “Over the past 25 years we’ve built up this experience of looking at smaller, community-based currencies. But there’s a gap between the very small community currencies and these large legal tender currencies which are the dominant form.

    “What we’re proposing for Scotland is taking the learning that we’ve got from the past 25 years and applying it to a larger scale so we can start to see those macro-benefits.

    “During the independence referendum the debate around currency was at best confused and at worse full of disinformation and the UK Government saying ‘Scotland could never use the pound’, which was absolutely not true.”

    He added: “We had a number of supporters and trustees of our organisation asking us to become involved, but unfortunately that came too late to impact the referendum.”

    McCann said it was something “that could be done today”, although he preferred a lead-in time of up to two years to “set it up properly”.

    Common Weal director Robin McAlpine, said: “A digital currency is the kind of idea a modern, innovative and entrepreneurial government should be exploring. The process would also be instructive for a nation which might conceivably one day have to create its own currency.”

    Professor Nigel Dodd, from London School of Economics, added: “Given that the currency question played a major role in the Scottish referendum debate last year, I have no doubt that the proposals for a ScotPound will inform future discussions in Scotland. NEF’s proposals are extremely clear and convincing.”

  295. Petra says:

    O/T

    Mmmh wonder what happened there? Apologies for the ‘double’ posting!

    @ Lesley-Anne says at 3:51 pm …. ”As everyone knows Petra I’m no expert on … well on anything. ? However I think you could be right with regards your question about the Clydesdale bank. As it is now back being an independent entity, I believe, then I see no reason why it could not be our Scottish Central Bank. Perhaps even link it to this.”

    http://archive.is/H64EO

    Really interesting Lesley-Anne and I just love the name ‘BancaAlba’. The way forward for Scotland?

    And a snippet or a dod, lol!:

    ‘Everyone on the Electoral Register in Scotland would have an account opened with BancaAlba and would receive a citizens’ dividend of S£250. The NEF said this would add around S£15m to the money supply every year.

    Duncan McCann, a researcher in economy and finance at NEF, said: “Over the past 25 years we’ve built up this experience of looking at smaller, community-based currencies. But there’s a gap between the very small community currencies and these large legal tender currencies which are the dominant form.

    “What we’re proposing for Scotland is taking the learning that we’ve got from the past 25 years and applying it to a larger scale so we can start to see those macro-benefits.

    “During the independence referendum the debate around currency was at best confused and at worse full of disinformation and the UK Government saying ‘Scotland could never use the pound’, which was absolutely not true.”

    He added: “We had a number of supporters and trustees of our organisation asking us to become involved, but unfortunately that came too late to impact the referendum.”

    McCann said it was something “that could be done today”, although he preferred a lead-in time of up to two years to “set it up properly”.

    Common Weal director Robin McAlpine, said: “A digital currency is the kind of idea a modern, innovative and entrepreneurial government should be exploring. The process would also be instructive for a nation which might conceivably one day have to create its own currency.”

    Professor Nigel Dodd, from London School of Economics, added: “Given that the currency question played a major role in the Scottish referendum debate last year, I have no doubt that the proposals for a ScotPound will inform future discussions in Scotland. NEF’s proposals are extremely clear and convincing.”

  296. Legerwood says:

    Proud cybernat at 3.09

    Re: public notices in newspapers

    During its first term in office the minority SNP government tried to save some money – several million pounds – by stopping public notices, both local and national government, being printed in newspapers and transferring it all to the internet.

    Cue uproar from the papers and not just the local ones because it would have meant the loss of a significant part of their income.

    The Unionist parties blocked the move and the newspapers have been forever in their debt.

  297. Watching FMQs. Woeful opposition.

    It turns out Scotland IS a one party state. One party… and three wakes.

  298. Robert Peffers says:

    @Dorothy Devine says: 4 February, 2016 at 3:56 pm:

    “Mr Peffers, I was thinking of wise owls -nae hoolets!”

    Aye! Dorothy, I had gathered was your slant on the matter.

    “Glad you had a titter – hope you didn’t have the suggested, ” accident”.

    Not quite. It was though a bit more than a wee titter More an uncontrolled gale of laughter, and what with a recent 1/2 Pint mug of tea, an enlarged prostate and a wee papillion bitch sitting on my knee, the dash to the toilet was indeed urgent and only just in time.

    (Now I hope that wee word picture of the incident doesn’t have any reciprocal effects).

  299. lumilumi says:

    Taxation is a complex thing.

    On a national level, income tax isn’t that big. Corporate tax (if collected), VAT and other indirect taxes contribute more. But personal income tax is an easy one for political football because many voters only look at their own payslips.

    I live in a country with high taxes, even food and children’s clothes carry VAT, and VAT is a regressive tax, affects low-earners more than high-earners.

    My country has progressive income tax. The more you earn, the higher your PAYE income tax percent. I don’t understand the UK “tax bands” and “x p in the pound” talk.

    In my country, it’s a sliding scale. If you’ve got a traditional job and know your earnings for the year, you’ll know how much income tax you’ll pay.

    If you’re someone like me, a freelancer, you estimate your income, pay tax on it, and, after you’ve paid too much tax, get rectified, and reimbursed, the next year. The tax backs are paid out in early December = a Christmas bonus for many Finnish taxpayers.

    But I still don’t understand “tax bands” and x p per pound tax talk. Maybe it’s something the powers that be say to confuse the taxpayers.

    In my country, income tax is on a sliding scale. Every year, the tax authorities send you a “tax card”, which you’re supposed to give to your employer. The tax card details either daily/weekly/monthly earnings, or bluntly yearly earnings, and how much income tax you should pay.

    You can change your “tax card” income tax percentage. To lower it, you have to call the tax authorities and make your case. Many Finns up their income tax for the first 6-9 months, then contact the tax authories to pay less PAYE for the remaining months. (Because they’ve already paid most of their taxes by then.)

    Maybe my country theoritacilly has “tax bands” but to my knowledge, is a sliding scale, you pay from 3% to 56%. If you’re a “right-thinking” person, you’ll gladly pay your taxes.

  300. Paula Rose says:

    For what it’s worth re the Spanner twitter account, myself and others are sure it is used by more than one person. The tweets are inconsistent in lay-out and often unaware of previous interaction. We suspect a few of those “leading lights” are “in the frame”.

  301. yesindyref2 says:

    @Lesley-Anne
    It’s not actually clear what the effect on the block grant is, except that for one year an agreement has been made – probably because of the Scotland Act 2015 taking over from the Scotland Act 2012 – if that happens.

    So it’s possible that for one year only the MSP is right, but it’s very unclear what the actual status is, except it involves the OBR and “challenges” – though perhaps OBR will be effectively devolved to Scotland for the Scottish Fiscal Commission.

    If you don’t understand my posting, then try reading this:

    http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2015/12/9056/3

    My head hurts.

  302. yesindyref2 says:

    @Paula Rose
    I was going to have a better look but yes, there’s at least three styles of writing. One, the more current one is, actually, very funny in a one-word kind of way 🙂

    One other is kind of angry, and another is the abusive one.

    The ones who aren’t abusive are thick as mince becoming associated with that account. Truth will out.

  303. louis.b.argyll says:

    Progressive Taxation.

    It’s very name explains how it works in theory / law.

    Look at council tax bands, how they’ve been tied, through legislation, to value, the law has been politicised to support our style of capitalism.

    Councils should, without a doubt, have the ability to create localised systems based on local REALITY…NOT REAL-ESTATE.

    Bloody Tories.

    Civilisation has better systems, but money talks louder.

  304. galamcennalath says:

    @yesindyref2
    @Paula Rose

    “there’s at least three styles of writing”

    Given that Spanner is such a oddly behaved character, that doesn’t necessarily mean three people.

    Is there such a thing as tripolar?

    Then again, it could be three right enough. Or, two, one of whom is plain bipolar.

    I keep thinking Spanner (or the Spanners) almost certainly appears as their other non secret ID(s).

    There must be similarities between a known, and the hidden, personas.

  305. Really impressed with the contribution the New SNP MP`s are making down in Westminster,not just to Scottish only matters,they stand up for all the disadvantaged in UK and abroad,

    today there was,

    Stephen Gethins and Peter Grant on Parliamentary sovereignty and EU renegotiations,

    Kirsten Oswald,Alison Thewliss and Patrick Grady on Conflict in Yemen,

    Labour down there and up here are an irrelevance, just troughing wage thieves.

  306. Rob says:

    Scrollers. At 300+ postings on a thread, that’s what the read-only congregation becomes.

  307. Not Convinced says:

    If Scottish Labour start/continue claiming they have a tax *plan* is there is any way we can complain to the Advertising Standards Agency? 😀 Because what they’re saying clearly falls, IMHO, well short of what is normal meaning of the word “plan”!

    Frankly I’d say they didn’t even meet the standard required to claim they “have a tax soundbite” but maybe that’s just me?

  308. Bob Mack says:

    Re Spanner,

    I was talking to a good friend today about this subject and he started laughing.

    He like our own Robert Peffers is a historian buff and has several books published.

    It was fascinating listening to him outline the behaviour at Royal court ,now and in the past. He outlined the Royal hangers on trying to gain favour as the most trusted of the Royal retinue,and trying to show their love and loyalty more than the others in the chosen company. More important than this,he outlined the role of the court jester to this group. Describing Shakespeares’ Yorick, he emphasised that this was the role adopted by Spanner. The Royal fool, the entertainer. The important thing was that if the queen thought him funny,then everybody had better find amusement too..
    The jester was often held in high regard by the King or Queen and was often a confidente.

    When you think about recent events,the state of servitude has never left many on these shores either in England or Scotland.

  309. Sandy says:

    Daily Liar going to take issue over Pete Wishart’s second job. Ie, attempted entry to Eurovision Song Contest. No, wait, other English MPs involved.
    OK then?

  310. yesindyref2 says:

    Bloo** H533. Commented on commonspace and now get an email every time someone else comments. WTF

    Last time I comment there.

  311. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 4 February, 2016 at 6:26 pm:

    ” … Is there such a thing as tripolar?”

    Indeed there are known cases of DID, (Dissociative Identity Disorder). This is a severe condition in which two or more distinct identities, or personality states, are present in, and alternately take control of an individual.

    The sufferer also will experience memory loss too extensive to be explained by ordinary forgetfulness.

    DID is characterized by identity fragmentation rather than a proliferation of separate personalities and is not due to the direct psychological effects of a substance or of a general medical condition. However, as this once rarely reported disorder has become more common, the diagnosis has also become more controversial.

    What is very, very clear is that it does indeed exist and the condition seems to be becoming more prevalent in modern times but is little understood.

    My opinion is that this is not such a case but is actually several individuals who think it a, “wizard wheeze”. Perhaps directly connected to the rather unnatural style of upbringing particularly associated with the English boarding school/public School system.

  312. call me dave says:

    A wee cameo in the Herald!
    ———————————————————
    Eyes flashing, gorge rising, Ms Sturgeon looked fit to burst.

    You could only pity the next sap to take her on.

    Willie Rennie stood up. 🙂
    ————————————————————–

    https://archive.is/AZLd4

  313. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    lumilumi @

    Well I don’t understand (in fact I’m quite snowed under) how your system works. Say a low paid worker is taxed at 3%, then at some point on the earnings scale someone else will need to pay, say 6%, and with even more pay maybe 12% and so on up by whatever steps your law requires. So you’d have a 3% band, a 6% band … up the maximum 56% band.

    If that’s not the way it works then what? Is there some complex maths formula involved? I doubt that many people in the UK could get their heads around such a system, but then you’re supposed to have a far superior education system 🙂

  314. My partner, who does a bit of upholstery work, told me she’d been offered a mid century bed/settee in exchange for labour.

    I replied that I can remember the days when Labour were worth at least two, new bed/settees but that was in the pre Murphy era.

  315. Robert Peffers says:

    @K.A.Mylchreest says: 4 February, 2016 at 7:15 pm:

    ” … I doubt that many people in the UK could get their heads around such a system, but then you’re supposed to have a far superior education system”

    Thing is there isn’t a unified UK education system. Scotland’s education system has always been independent from the rest of the UK.

    The Fife Council Primary School in Kelty is called, “Kelty Public School”, but has no similarity to an English style, “Public School”, where that term actually means a private, (non-State), school.

  316. Lesley-Anne says:

    Thanks for the link there yesindyref2.

    To be honest I have not got the clearest idea myself. My village idiot outlook runs along the lines that the annual pocket money Holyrood recieves from WM will be based on tax returns collected in Scotland the previous year. Or something like that.

    As annual tax returns can go UP as well as DOWN then the conjuring of pocket money delivered to Holyrood is going to be a humongous nightmare … EVERY year in my view.

    To be honest anything tax related does my head in but when I see folks like Henry bolstering the idea that this 1p tax rise, making Scotland the most expensive place in all of UK, to pay tax is just beyond the pale in my view. Especially when, despite Labour’s branch office pathetic claims about bringing in money to save services. What they conveniently omit to say is that whilst the richest do pay a smidgeon more in tax it is the middle and especially the LOWEST tax bands who pay the most of their hard earned income! RED Tories punishing the weak and powerless … quelle surprise!

  317. Gary45% says:

    I think it was one of Ian Brotherhoods posts earlier that put me onto a series of you tube “Interviews???” with, Dipity hypothetically autonomous Dugdale.
    Cheers man, one train wreck after another.
    This CANNOT be the leader of Scotland, she makes FUD sound sensible.
    (mmm maybe not)

  318. weetroot says:

    This subject is going a bit off topic re. the dugs 1p tax increase.I live in North Ayrshire.
    Let me give you my little story re Labour and income tax and jobs – Labour no matter what they say they do not want good well paid jobs i.e. In north ayrshire a few years ago, the labour leader David O,Neil – now cosla president- stated on STV main news that ” we will not have jobs at any cost” regarding an application to build a coal fired power station at hunterston.
    approximately 10 years ago labour turned down an application to build a budget hotel, restuarant etc which would have created a lot of starter jobs.
    When I was an apprentice, many years ago, labour knocked an old penny off our agreed 3 old penny per hour wage increase.
    more recently Doo Broon taxed part of my meagre private penson while I was still working.
    Labour will tax your socks off and give jobs to their boys using your money.

  319. Petra says:

    @ Nana says at 3:56 pm ….”Petra … You are a wonder, you take my links and condense them so well into a few paragraphs which on the whole makes for easy reading. The canary link is actually a follow up interview from one she did last year, She also has a book which is worth reading.

    http://www.amazon.co.uk/Kerry-Anne-Mendoza/e/B00S2P3T30

    I have read Scriptonite daily for a long time and she is a supporter of Scottish independence.”

    Thanks for that information Nana. I’ll spend some time now reading her books, accessing their site and listening to youtube videos.

    The ‘wonder’ is this site Nana. Stuart, people who post informative links, like yourself, and many others, too numerous to mention by name, who submit one brilliant post after another. We all work together as a team. Not trying to outdo each other just focused on getting our Independence by ‘pooling and sharing’ in the best of ways.

  320. Petra says:

    O/T

    I didn’t hear about this on the news! Someone trying to get us Scots a bad name? I really hope that they catch them and stamp this out.

    ‘The National examined footage of the violence posted online which shows far-right supporters carrying Saltires during confrontations with rivals. One clip shows a masked person wearing a black hoodie with a Saltire logo and the words No Surrender to Al Qaeda while another clip shows a St Andrew’s flag alongside a black-and-red National Front flag as people run across parkland.

    There’s also footage of a man holding a Saltire in the middle of a group of National Front supporters charging at anti-fascists and a photography of a man holding a Saltire with the words “Scottish Defence League – Edinburgh Division.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/exclusive-police-probe-scottish-links-to-neo-nazi-riots-in-dover.13280

  321. Orri says:

    An interesting anomaly about the interaction between NI and income tax is that there’s times where the governments take as a percentage is higher than for those on lower wages. Especially if you look at it from the employer’s point of view.

    It’s worth considering that once tax and NI kick in your talking roughly 40% of the equivalent 112% higher wage if NI were replaced by its IT equivalent. So next time someone mentions higher taxes in Scandinavian countries ask them if there’s the same level of hidden taxation as here.

  322. mike cassidy says:

    yesindyref2 4.46

    Here’s the relevant extract from your link re block grant reduction.

    If this is accurate, then am I right in thinking the block grant is going to be automatically reduced whether the elected Holyrood government does anything with SRIT or not in 2016/17.

    It is ironic that the reduction figure is more than Slab said they would raise!

    Contributions by those with more penetrating minds than myself on such matters are welcome!

    Block grant adjustment for the devolved taxes

    The UK Government’s Command Paper ‘Strengthening Scotland’s Future’ set out arrangements for reducing Scotland’s block grant. This was in recognition of the fact that, under the Scotland Act 2012, receipts from the fully devolved taxes (with effect from April 2015) will be added to the Scottish budget and will no longer be available to
    HM Treasury for funding general public expenditure.

    Discussions have been taking place between the Scottish and UK Governments as part of the fiscal framework negotiations to agree a permanent block grant adjustment mechanism for the fully devolved taxes. Such a mechanism should be true to the agreed principles of Smith and deliver a fair outcome for Scotland.

    Until a permanent agreement is reached on the adjustment mechanism, the Scottish and UK Governments have agreed a provisional one-year block grant adjustment for the fully devolved taxes in 2016-17 of £600 million. This agreement is without prejudice or precedent for the permanent block grant adjustment mechanism to be agreed as part of the fiscal framework.

  323. Lesley-Anne says:

    Sorry for bring up the Rangers thingy again folks but SERIOUSLY what sort of WAZZACK signs a deal with anyone that requires SEVEN years notice to quit??? 😉

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/35495352

  324. Albaman says:

    Re Wullie Rennie,
    Most time at F.M.Q.s, after he’s asked one of his “devastating “!, questions, and as Nicola Sturgeon lets rip, the camera invariably locks on to him, so what’s he doing?, why he’s got that big embarrassed smile, which says “shit I’ve buggered it up again”, mind you he’s had bags, and bags of exspierenc in doing so,
    I bet he walks down Kelty hight street with that self same smile, eh Robert Peffers ?.

  325. yesindyref2 says:

    @weetroot
    “i.e. In north ayrshire a few years ago, the labour leader David O,Neil – now cosla president- stated on STV main news that ” we will not have jobs at any cost” regarding an application to build a coal fired power station at hunterston.”

    I live in North Ayrhsire too. Planning for the Hunsterston coal fired power station was turned down by NAC – unanimously. All councillors of all parties voted against it. There was a petition against it which achieved a record number of signatures, mine included.

    The reasons were on health grounds, insufficient research into the adverse health affects. Things like asthma, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD), heart disease and even lung cancer.

    Jobs at the cost of my health and those of my kids? No thanks.

  326. X_Sticks says:

    Well Wings posters you’ve been excelling yourselves in the past week or so. The quality of the thinking, the writing and the links has been superb. I’m struggling just to keep up. Stu will be getting worried about the competition 😉

    @Valerie, re: the Turks – can’t but agree how bad Erdogan has been for the country.

    Under Gül Turkey was on the verge of becoming a member of the EU. The Turkish youth couldn’t wait to become members of Europe but Turkey was continually frustrated. Support for EU membership is now at an all time low. It was over 70% but has now dropped to 44%. Yes, there were humans rights issues mainly regarding the Kurds, but that wasn’t the real reasons the EU blocked Turkey, the reasons were all economic.

    The EU could have had a friendly secular Muslim country as a member. I wonder if some of the EU leaders now wish they had taken the chance when it was there. It would have made a significant difference to the situation now. Turkey is slipping (or being pushed?) away from Europe and away from secularism. There will be increasing trouble in Turkey as many of the young will resist Islamisation by the state.

    I love Istanbul, it is a wonderful city but I fear I may never see it again the way things are going.

  327. yesindyref2 says:

    @mike cassidy
    Yes, no idea whether that £600 million is fair or not. I presume so otherwise the SG wouldn’t have agreed. In its place though the SG will be getting the 10p in the £ themselves, which is presumably estimated at £600 million. That’s the 2012 Scotland Act, the sole result from the Calman Commission, much of its recommendations having been stripped away.

    I’m guessing that provisional agreement was to clear the way for the fiscal framework talks for the 2015 Scotland Bill / Act, as that would completely replace the 2012 Act offerings, such as they were.

  328. Hamish McTavish says:

    @lumilumi – Personal Income Tax

    For ease of working out lets assume that you earn £50k per annum

    Lets have three tax bands and a tax code system

    If the govmt decides to set the 0% (tax allowance) rate at £10k then you get the first 10k of your salary tax free and your tax code (here in UK) would be 1000 (i.e. it relates to multiples of £10 – don’t know why)

    If the first “proper” tax band starts at £10,001 and goes to £25k and is set at 10% you pay that rate on that £15k

    The second band might be from £25k to £40k and set at 30%, so you pay that rate ONLY on that next £15k

    The final tax band would be anything over £40k and might be at 40%. You would then have to pay that rate on your remaining £10k of salary

    That would work out at £0 + £1.5k + £4.5k + £4.0k = £10k in total tax.

    Does that make sense?

  329. galamcennalath says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    “Dissociative Identity Disorder”

    Very illuminating, thanks.

    “the rather unnatural style of upbringing particularly associated with the English boarding school/public School system.”

    Now there’s a thing. Through the years I have encountered a number of men who have been subjected to that particular style of abuse.. All have shown two traits.

    Firstly, a very odd childish sense of humour. Their idea of a joke is more likely to be greeted with a chorus of “grow up” rather than laughter.

    Secondly, having spent their formative years in all male education, they really do have the oddest attitudes towards women.

    Just like ….

  330. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 4 February, 2016 at 7:34 pm:

    ” … To be honest anything tax related does my head in but when I see folks like Henry bolstering the idea that this 1p tax rise, making Scotland the most expensive place in all of UK, to pay tax is just beyond the pale in my view.”

    It is even more basic than that, Lesley-Anne

    For some reason, I can only guess at, the average Joe & Josephine Public have a blind spot regarding the modern tax system.

    They see income tax as the main tax they pay but it is not anything like the main tax these days. The Labour Party were the first UK government to change the main source of tax from direct, (on income and wealth), to indirect, (on goods and services).

    No prizes for guessing why a Labour Government would do such a thing for it is a well known fact that indirect taxation transfers the main burden of taxation from those best able to pay onto those least able to pay but of which there are many, many more poor than rich people. Furthermore MPs, particularly those who were products of the English public school system, were far from being poor folks.

    So they made the main tax VAT, upped such duties as Tobacco, Alcohol, Betting and Road fuel Duty. and brought in more and more items under VAT. The gap between the very rich and the very poor became wider. The following Tory and coalition governments grasped these changes with both hands and now the gap is wider than it was in Dickensian times.

    All of which means the transfer of only income tax to Scotland is factually not nearly as important and still leaves Westminster milking Scotland like a milch cow.

    Just take every litre of road fuel you buy. Not only does most of the cost comprise Road Fuel Duty but you pay VAT on it too.

    That is after the government take tax on the barrel of oil at the wellhead and the tax on every litre leaving the refinery and the profits of the Oil company for crude, profits of the refiner and profits of the garage forecourt. Not to mention selling the oil companies licences to prospect and then drill for oil.

    So income tax is not even peanuts it is just a, tiny, wee, shilpit, single peanut.

  331. Tam Jardine says:

    Rob
    If I can offer my own experience of moving from simply reading posts on here to commenting- I understand folk’s apprehension. Some think they have nothing to add whilst others are perhaps worried they will be subjected to a dawn raid by the media, or MI5. Worst still, other posters might take the piss.

    Happily: these fears are pretty much unfounded (although there is probably a file somewhere on us all)!

    I don’t believe anyone who has an interest in Scottish Independence has nothing to add. I am just a wee guy punting flooring for a living in my wee corner of Leith and I manage to post some things that maybe add to the discussion. And although you find yourself in the company of some of the sharpest minds in this country and beyond, we all offer a different perspective.

    Make no mistake Rob- you find yourself in the living, breathing heart of the campaign for Scottish Independence and it will happen largely as a result of discussions, articles and revolutionary zeal on this site.

    So read at will, keep your ears and eyes open and give your tuppence when you feel you have something to say. ‘Lurker’ is nae guid- you’re an alert reader man.

    Salut

  332. Lesley-Anne says:

    Isn’t it interesting Robert that no one from the Labour branch office has the where for all to figure out that no matter how you cut the tax cake (including ALL taxes) it is ALWAYS the poor and middle income families who end up being worse off financially.

    In my view Labour branch office is, and has been for some considerable time, just a branch office of the branch office of the BLUE Tory party in London.

  333. uno mas says:

    @Tam Jardine 8.40pm

    That´s an excellent post Mr Jardine.

    Well said.

  334. ronbon says:

    Don’t comment very much but have to say that there are some very talented people on this site and really impressed with their contributions. Like many I’m frustrated by the bias and misinformation spread by the media. Thank god for wings!

  335. Petra says:

    O/T

    ‘Salmond: indyref2 ‘irresistible’ if Brexit against Scots’ will.’

    ‘ALEX Salmond yesterday warned David Cameron that any attempt to resist a second independence referendum if the UK votes to leave the EU against Scotland’s will would be like King Canute trying to hold back the tide.’

    http://www.thenational.scot/politics/salmond-indyref2-irresistible-if-brexit-against-scots-will.13289

    ‘The National’s columnist Cat Boyd is targeted by Roosh V’s rape advocate mob.’

    I hear that Valizadeh has now cancelled his meetings in Edinburgh and Glasgow. GOOD.

    ‘Meanwhile Valizadeh, who styles himself as a “pick-up artist”, said the volume of protest from Scotland’s biggest city had outstripped all others.

    He tweeted: “I’ve received more threats from Glasgow than anywhere else combined. Is it some kind of convict resettlement zone?”’

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/the-nationals-columnist-cat-boyd-is-targeted-by-roosh-vs-rape-advocate-mob.13279

  336. call me dave says:

    The boys are back in town and it’s all Hand’s men to the pump trying to keep the Vow afloat. he coming up next Monday to sign the deal… Aye Right!

    https://archive.is/7Ga2g

    PS:
    Eleanour Bradford and Jackie Baillie should get right down there immediately and ask for some Barnett consequentials for us while your at at it.

    https://archive.is/hmRcR

  337. mike cassidy says:

    yesindyref2 8.32

    Of course, my 8.07 is only referring to the devolved taxes.

    As SRIT is not a devolved tax –

    http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Government/Finance/scottishapproach/scottishrateofincometax

    I still don’t know whether using SRIT in the year 2016/17 – as Slab propose – would impact on the block grant.

    I have a feeling this lack of clarity stems from the lack of agreement yet between Holyrood and Westminster on this issue – never mind the Scotland Bill.

    Does anybody know anymore on this specific point?

  338. Phronesis says:

    Mr Osborne’s austerity experiment failing on so many levels.
    The economist Michael Llyod has spelled out a few economic truths that might allow the cogs to turn a bit faster at WM

    https://peoplesassemblytyneandwear.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/ten-current-economic-untruths/

    A summary by the author of a report on homelessness in England as a consequence of (amongst other things) benefit sanctions highlights the human costs

    https://theconversation.com/rehousing-homeless-people-our-study-reveals-long-term-support-needed-to-rebuild-lives-53588

    An informative read – Hard Times -The Divisive Toll of the Economic Slump (2014)by Tom Clark & Anthony Heath –

    ‘In this emerging link in squeezed pay for the majority and reduced benefits for the vulnerable few there really ought to be an opening for solidarity, progressive resistance and then progressive reform’

    In Scotland this already exists in our progressive YES movement and will inevitably lead to the ultimate reform of this assymetric union and its toxic policies- Scotland’s independence.

  339. Clootie says:

    Any review of taxation must address the hidden stealth taxes such as VAT (Hidden tax revenue was very popular with Gordon Brown)
    …take the example of VAT on key items that can be fairly described as a general requirement for living. With a flat rate it is obviously a much higher percentage of the income for the poor.

    Playing with just income tax only leads to an acceptance of these standard rate hidden charges.

    When you add up all the hidden taxes I suspect low income earners are effectively paying a much higher percentage rate to Osbourne than middle income families.

    NI stamp – the same percentage charge for low earners as a middle earner
    Fuel tax
    Tobacco tax
    Road tax
    VAT

    All loaded towards hitting the lower end of the pay scale disproportionately. The system has been designed to gain acceptance, to become invisible over time.

  340. Cath says:

    Can’t believe the DR went out onto the streets of Glasgow and *only* managed to run across cult members! They should try unionist clubs next time.

    Anyway, seems there are 2 things in there everyone agrees on: 1 Labour is unelectable and screwed. And 2 (more implicitly): you can’t trust a word they say about why they’re raising more money and where it’ll go. There are a hell of a lot of, “ifs” and “buts” in there about that.

  341. Lesley-Anne says:

    Saw a tweet earlier from everyone’s favourite UKIP M.E.P. … Nigel Farage. Apparently he had been stuck for 90 minutes on the A1 going nowhere. Personally I blame all those pesky cybernat immigrants. 😀

    Don’t panic though folks it appears that good old BBC has found a stand in … Paul Nuttall. So that’s O.K. then … BBC replace ONE nutter with another nutter! 😀

  342. Tam Jardine says:

    call me dave 

    Aye- consequentials indeed. In the mid 80s the local authorities were spending something like £700 million over budget and the Barnett consequentials were suspended because the treasury decided that overspending by one department should not lead to overspending by other departments.

    My FOI request on this subject came back yesterday with a big fat Fuck You from the Scotland Office. Unable to find the information I’m looking for. Maybe they’ll let me rock up to take a look myself?

  343. heedtracker says:

    Not much UKOK Scotland news again tonight. A washed up 1990’s American comedy actor is going to save the BBC with the help of a washed up 1990’s English man on the telly, BBC, UKOK hackdom, who are not a parochial bunch of star struck yokels at all, very excited.

    “In case you missed the looks of confusion and responses of “Wait. What, really?” Top Gear made it official this morning: Matt LeBlanc will be joining Chris Evans and the gang as the new series’ co-host. “As a car nut and massive fan of Top Gear, I’m honoured and excited to be a part of this iconic show’s new chapter,” he said in a statement. “What a thrill!”

    And of course it is.”

    That’s rancid The Graun, only 2 decades behind the times in the US.

    Rupert Carrell UKOK misinforms his Scotland reader again, with his take on The Vow shyste and take that you rebel sweaties bleh/boost for Fluffie Mundell.

    “Mundell said he didn’t blame Swinney “for chancing his arm”, and characterised the finance secretary’s position as being “we keep the Barnett formula, we don’t bear any risk and by the way if we get any extra money we will keep and if there’s any extra money raised in England we’ll have a bit of that too”.

    Mundell added: “I describe that as having your cake and eating it and then having a bit of everybody else’s cake too. Perfectly legitimate to chance your arm but the idea that people in the rest of the UK are going to sign up to that I think is not credible.”

    BBC 24 today was interesting today, they completely pretended that their Scotland region just does not exist and only somewhere really weally important called ENGLAND rules the waves, with brilliant and handsome David Cameron at the helm.

    At the very least, they know where they can stick their UKOK licence fee.

  344. louis.b.argyll says:

    Ooh.
    Someone said the c’ word.

    Nothing- in the relatively long

    history of humanity

    is more CULT-like than a

    Royal family.

    It’s huge!.. and a bit weird
    for a grown-up population.

  345. yesindyref2 says:

    Getting on to the fiscal framework I’ve seen complicated explanations, and a lot of lack of understanding, icnluding my own. So, ignoring the 2012 Scotland Act which already complicates calculation of the block grant, here’s what I came up with, let me know if you think it’s wrong or rubbish!

    ————————

    Currently the block grant is based on estimates of England spending, Scotland gets 10% in the block grant. There are Barnett consequentials for any spending in England over its budget, this is 10%, and added to next year’s block grant (or paid to Scotland whenever). So – the block grant is based purely on spending – English spending. Fairly simple.

    With FFA Scotland would raise all its own revenues, there would be no Barnett, no English consequentials, what Scotland gets is what it spends, plus borrowing. Simple.

    Devolving income tax and others means Scotland’s budget being a mixture of 10% of England’s spending, but plus revenue raised in Scotland. So it’s a mix of someone else’s spending, and our own revenue. Extremely complicated. Stupid actually, to be honest.

  346. louis.b.argyll says:

    Clootie, you are right.

    So, if we start with income tax, as fair as can be..
    ..the other taxes, like you say, would be easier to align, to personal local taxes. And future global taxes.

    The bedroom is an insult to every one of us.

  347. Orri says:

    Having had a look at the link to SRIT two things are apparent.

    The first is that there’s no mention of mitigating ability to adjust the tax bands or personal allowances which would be the easiest way to ensure you could increase the tax rate without fucking those near the breadline. Nor is it apparent how any proposed rebate would be made or that Holyrood would have any ability to make them. It would be the height of stupidity for Holyrood to vary the tax rate without any certainty of those powers.

    The second is that it depends on where you are registered as living rather than where you work. This might have seen some who commute to work in the oil industry paying tax in the rUK whilst others who work in London, our MPs perhaps, paying in Scotland.

    A final point might be that all we are getting is an expansion and embedding of a power that Holyrood had from day 1 and never used.

  348. Bob Mack says:

    I have had a very interesting night trawling the twitter accounts of Labour Councillors and activists. There are a couple of interesting developments. Firstly they are advised to use the old SNP/Tory the same ploy. We all know how that went last time.

    The second thing is however more sinister. It appears that Councils are considering issuing employees with 90 day notices because of their funding situation. Dundee is to be the first.This is wrong on several counts.

    Firstly it is political prior to the May elections and is clearly an attempt to smear the Government. Remember Kinnock to Hatton. “You don’t play politics with the jobs of your workers”,.

    Secondly,Dundee Council is one with high reserves.What are they doing with them?

    The Councils have obviously decided that after May their own time will be up next year, and the game of dirty politics to win at any cost is beginning now. Councils are the last bastion of Labour,and it seems they are willing to sacrifice people’s jobs to make political mayhem to their advantage,

    Watch this space

  349. louis.b.argyll says:

    Yesindyref2,

    Yes, it is stupid. And beneath us.

  350. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    What’s the story with Dundee?

    It’s an SNP controlled council. I will now go and avail myself of Google’s search facilities.

  351. heedtracker says:

    With FFA Scotland would raise all its own revenues, there would be no Barnett, no English consequentials, what Scotland gets is what it spends, plus borrowing. Simple.

    Fluffie’s fighting to take down SNP Scots.gov, by excluding his Scotland region from English growth. Vote NO for pooling and sharing they lied but fair enough. We all know they are out to make Scotland pay for even daring to be independent. Look at all the economic levers Toryboy world in Westminster has and Holyrood has none.

    UKOK PAYE moved to Scotland means 2 things and neither are good for growth. Scotland isn’t even allowed to run even a partial immigration policy. EVEL takes Scottish voters out of English policy and law. Red or blue, English toryboy growth for England relies almost completely on immigration. Funny that.

    My Slovene girlfriend, also tory on Smith Commission explains what their cunning The Vow plan will actually do to Scotland and the SNP.

    https://notesfromnorthbritain.wordpress.com/2015/08/19/one-year-on-nearly/

    “Scottish health service is still in the mess in 2021 that it is in now, it will be no-one but the SNP’s fault. Moreover, well before 2021 the new tax and welfare powers agreed by the Smith Commission and currently being legislated for in the Scotland Bill will be fully in force. Mr Swinney made a complete hash of the first tax devolved to him (stamp duty) and, when he takes charge of income tax in Scotland, which he soon will, his job will get a whole lot harder. Especially when he has a Cabinet Secretary for Welfare urging him radically to increase spending on social security provision in Scotland.

    All bubbles burst. All tides recede. Eventually. At the moment the SNP is, to many people, more of a cult than a political party. One poll found recently that 62% of Scots plan to vote for them next year despite only 35% of us thinking that they are doing a good job with the powers they have. But this too will pass, as Scots come to understand that the SNP is not just another anti-austerity protest movement but, you know, an actual government with, you know, actual powers and stuff. Reason can be blinded by the passions, but only for so long.”

    Proud Scot buts must be so proud to be ruled by toryboys like Prof T here.

  352. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I typed,

    “What’s the story with Dundee?”

    Nope – nothing showing via Google…

    Where does this report come from?

  353. Nana says:

    This is showing up on twitter tonight.

    https://twitter.com/DanLeePadgett/status/695372027314634755?lang=en

    @Bob Mack
    You are not alone in thinking that about councils and sacrificing workers jobs for political gain, I saw a few tweets last evening saying the same.

  354. Bob Mack says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon

    It is a story being put out by a Labour Councillor in N Ayrshire. Is it just mischief making? Will need to wait and see.

  355. yesindyref2 says:

    @heed
    That’s completely it in a nutshell.

    @Orri
    Yes, SRIT is the implementation of the 2012 Scotland Act, where Scotland had to be responsible for what it raises as well as what it spends. The Unionist and Labour / Conservative / LibDem mantra. Naughty schoolboy Holyrood, spending your pocket money, well, now you’ll have to be a responsible adult, smack smack.

    @Louis
    Yes, but it’s a game the SNP have to play, play honestly, scrupulously and genuinely. Until the game is over. It’s the platform they stood on for the General Election, it was their part in Smith, and by doing that, it’s helped to keep happy the Devo-Maxers who voted YES, and those who voted NO. That’s good for the SNP vote, but also the hope is that the NO voting devo-maxers will move over to YES, when they see that not only is Devo-Max not on toffer from Westminster and never will be, but also it is not preapred to negotiate “no detriment” with good intent, even for a handful of limited use “powers”. that’s the way I see it anyway, and did from September 2014.

    It seems like a long game, but it could explode any time. And the more Mundell opens his mouth, the better. Speak oh ye imperial master, speak up!

  356. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Gary 45% (7.36) –

    Hey mister, if you’ve been doing the whole YT rabbit-hole stuff (magic intit!?) perhaps you can help…

    Last night I wasted a fair bit of time hunting for any footage of Ian Davidson on the night of the SLab wipe-out last year. He was in Glasgow, was speaking ‘live’, but I can’t remember if it was BBC or STV. I do remember thinking, fair do’s, he had a decent stab at eating some humble pie, even though it was making him gag.

    You didn’t happen to stumble across it? 😉

  357. jimnarlene says:

    @ Bob Mack

    I wouldn’t put it past them. A wounded animal will lash out, when it knows it’s dying and that’s what SLab are doing, one final monumental f**k up, afore they cough their last.

  358. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Bob Mack.

    Nothing coming up on Google and nothing on The Courier’s web site, where you would expect it to be the headline.

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/

  359. Bob Mack says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon,

    The story is being tweeted by Alex Gallagher, the Labour Councillor for Largs and Cumbria. He claims the Dundee Council have issued 90 day notices to its 6000 workers. I can find nothing about this myself,but that is his claim

  360. Bob Mack says:

    Dam predicta text. Cumbrae rather than Cumbria

  361. galamcennalath says:

    Times/YouGov EU poll

    Excluding don’t knows:
    56% Leave
    44% Remain

  362. Valerie says:

    Dundee Council has invited voluntary redundancies, so they won’t be issuing 90 day notices???

    They will want volunteers, and have it wrapped up by 31 March, financial year end.

  363. Thepnr says:

    @BDTT

    Dundee Council have asked all employees excluding teachers if they would consider voluntary redundancy. A total of 6000.

    Courier 08/01/16 https://archive.is/40ONp

  364. geeo says:

    James Kelly on Scotland 2016…..just hilarious !

    Well, as funny as a car crash can ever be…?

    Even the tame BBC interviewer got tore in about him ?

  365. geeo says:

    James Kelly on Scotland 2016…..just hilarious !

    Well, as funny as a car crash can ever be…?

    Even the tame BBC interviewer got tore in about him ?

  366. Bob Mack says:

    @Valerie,

    Thanks Valerie that is totally different. That man Gallagher is spouting something totally different on his twitter. Some things never change. It just shows how they lie to paint anything negative when they fail to understand that we miss nothing.

  367. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Here’s one for all you ‘lurkers’, ‘invisible choir’, or whatever else it is you’d prefer you call yourselves.

    We’ve all got a part to play in making sure the BTUKOKers don’t shaft us again. Whether the chance comes via the unfolding Euro-bollocks, or an embarrassingly obvious ‘democratic deficit’ when SLab finally slips off past that u-bend at the umpteenth time of flushing, it doesn’t take a psephologist or genius to work out what way we’re heading.

    The more voices the better. This, right here, is the ‘voice of the people’ – nae judgement, nae pecking-order, and, most importantly, nae pish.

    Fill yer boots ‘lurkers’ or, as I’d prefer to call you, ‘friends’.

    Hoots aplenty! 🙂 🙂 🙂

    “I’m the closest thing I have to a voice of reason.”

    The late Gil Scott-Heron, ‘I’m New Here’ –

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV_astp3BjM

  368. mike cassidy says:

    Here is what the Scottish Government has said. Note that their plan is to stick with the tax status quo for 2016/17.

    http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Government/Finance/scottishapproach/scottishrateofincometax

    17 Dec 2015

    Setting the Scottish Rate

    The Scottish Government has proposed a Scottish rate of Income tax of 10 per cent on the 16th December in the Draft Budget for 2016/17.

    A 10 per cent rate (10p in the pound) will raise tax receipts equal to the block grant reduction. Receipts from SRIT will be added to the Scottish block grant.

    So it is an accounting exercise.

    HMRC will say –

    We raised x amount through SRIT, here it is Holyrood, and now your block grant will be reduced by that amount.

    But surely this means that if SRIT was going to be increased in 2016/17 -as Slab proposes –

    Then HMRC would be saying

    We raised x+ through SRIT, here it is Holyrood, and now your block grant will be reduced by that amount.

    HMRC are surely not going to be trying to work out the difference between what the status quo would have brought in – and what was actually brought in because of the SRIT increase – even supposing that was practically possible.

    And then saying only the status quo amount comes off your block grant. Feel free to spend the extra on Tunnocks tea cakes.

  369. Bob Mack says:

    @Nana,

    Thanks Nana for posting that link. My I pad is playing up badly,and will I fear ,need replacing.

  370. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Yesindyref2, Yeah pretty close re Barnett. Except not all items of expenditure in England trigger consequentials. Those things considered “national infrastructure ” dont cause any consequentials. Things like crossrail, london sewer upgrade, HS2 etc. Even though these primarily service England and predominately the south east, they are perceived as benefiting the entire nation and not therefore solely English spending( which triggers barnett)

  371. Graham MacLure says:

    Nana 11:08

    Thanks for the link.

    Alex Gallagher asks ,”What @ Dundee SNP think?”

    I would imagine they think Alex is another Labour loser.

  372. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Dundee: we got there in the end. how is it gonna play out?

  373. stephen says:

    Paul Nutall (UKIP) on Question time.”We want our country back”What country is he talking about here?Since when has the UK been a country?Here’s me thinking Scotland is an equal partner in a family of nations.

  374. mike cassidy says:

    My boldness got the better of me at 11.10.

    Hope this is clearer.

    Here is what the Scottish Government has said. Note that their plan is to stick with the tax status quo for 2016/17.

    http://www.gov.scot/Topics/Government/Finance/scottishapproach/scottishrateofincometax

    17 Dec 2015

    “Setting the Scottish Rate

    The Scottish Government has proposed a Scottish rate of Income tax of 10 per cent on the 16th December in the Draft Budget for 2016/17.

    A 10 per cent rate (10p in the pound) will raise tax receipts equal to the block grant reduction. Receipts from SRIT will be added to the Scottish block grant.”

    So it is an accounting exercise.

    HMRC will say –

    We raised x amount through SRIT, here it is Holyrood, and now your block grant will be reduced by that amount.

    But surely this means that if SRIT was going to be increased in 2016/17 -as Slab proposes –

    Then HMRC would be saying

    We raised x+ through SRIT, here it is Holyrood, and now your block grant will be reduced by that amount.

    HMRC are surely not going to be trying to work out the difference between what the status quo would have brought in – and what was actually brought in because of the SRIT increase – even supposing that was practically possible.

    And then saying only the status quo amount comes off your block grant. Feel free to spend the extra on Tunnocks tea cakes.

  375. yesindyref2 says:

    @Mike Cassidy
    No, HMRC / UK Gov would only reduce the block grant by the equivalent of 10%, even if the SRIT went up from 10% to 20%.

    Ref Dundee, I found this which has reserves for ALL 32 authorities in a bar chart, though from unaudited accounts not audited ones. Dundee has the third lowest percentage (commented on in the audit). Uncommitted reserves apparently of just £5.1 million.

    http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/uploads/docs/report/2015/fa_1415_dundee.pdf

  376. yesindyref2 says:

    @Alan Mackintosh
    Yes, the UK infrastructure spend. Last I looked at the small print of GERS (2011-12) 88% was attributed to spending items, but the rest was unattributed.

    HS2 does have a Barnett consequential, from vague memory it was set at 2% or 3.9% – not the full whack anyway. Either that or that was the percentage judged to be Scotland’s benefit!

    Crossrail resulted in a one-off £500 million. It’s tricky tracking down what consequentials were paid though. The ScotGov negotiates for some of it, and the 6 MPs did their bit too I think. You see some of it in parliamentary question answers. For some odd reason the Treasury make it hard to find the figures, a source of frequent complaints from the SG.

  377. Alan Mackintosh says:

    YesIndyref2, ok thanks for that. Now that you mention them I have a distant memory of the random allocated sums from the ones you mention, but I knew it wasnt the notional 10%.

  378. Jock McDonnell says:

    Much as I’m pro-EU, particularly as a buffer against Westminster excesses, can’t help getting angry over the typically pompous LibDum on #bbcqt.
    Lets talk about Norway – does it pay a fortune to the EU, does it get no say ? Maybe so. Lets give her that.
    And yet – Norway chooses to do so, it chooses not to join.
    WTF would it do that ?

  379. GusI says:

    Mike Cassidy </I)

    I checked the HMRC website for the RTI (Real Time Information) reporting rules. RTI reporting is done electronically to HMRC after every payroll run that a company does. A Scottish taxpayer is identified by their tax code, it will have an 'S' prefix. When the RTI report is sent there will only be one tax amount and HMRC will calculate the UK and Scottish amounts. Here is the HMRC Guidance for Software Developers, it's not too technical.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/software-developers-payroll-test-data-2016-to-2017/scottish-rate-of-income-tax-calculations-developer-update-and-test-data

  380. Jock McDonnell says:

    And then the guy frightened about his Polish wife being repatriated.
    #projectfear2
    How many folk are married to non-EU citizens right now, happily settled in middle-Englandshire ? Thousands.
    It would take Nuremberg style laws to change that.
    Maybe not too far fetched mind you with Paul Nutter on the loose.

    Now Portaloo on This Week blabbing about having shot our bolt. FFS.

  381. yesindyref2 says:

    @Alan Mackintosh
    I spent a lot of hours (days) during the ref and even after, search strings, different search strings, all sorts of gov.uk documents, got a bit of info, but gave up in the end. Basically Scottish finances are fairly transparent on gov.scot or audit-scotland and other official sites, but UK Gov ones are well hidden. Maybe I just didn’t get there.

  382. mikecassidy says:

    yesindyref2 11.35

    My first reply seems to have slipped into digital limbo.

    Just to say this means that, as things stand specifically for 2016/17, the extra revenue which would have been raised by the Slab proposal would not have disappeared down a Blockgrant deduction black hole.

    So Tunnocks Tea Cakes all round!

  383. Dr Jim says:

    This year the Tories will be making moves to take away “Pensioners Winter Fuel Allowance”
    “Take away Free Prescriptions for Everybody”
    “Do away with the Free Bus Pass for Pensioners”
    “Plan to introduce VAT on childrens clothes”
    Because they’re bringing people out of poverty now with the new poverty living wage

    These proposals and more were made by Dr Liam Fox who also said “This should be done by Statutory Instrument by the middle of this year so that voters will forget which Government did it” Direct Quote

    Because many of the folk these cuts are aimed at don’t have computer access they’re easy to deploy quickly and stealthily because the media will be complicit in their non reporting of this stuff

    I just wish the deaf dumb and blind “I’m alright jack” Pensioners would get wind of this stuff and take it in before it happens because in Scotland we know what’ll happen, it’ll be “It wiz that SNP thit dun it”

    The FM has said she will protect the Bus Pass but I doubt there’s anything she’ll be able to do about the Winter Fuel Payment or the VAT, there’s going to be precious little cash left in the budget if we’re still mitigating the bedroom tax as well

    These NO Voters are going to have to get a grip of their Orange socks and their wee blue and red Banners and start thinking about the spare bedroom for their grannies to move into, their NO Surrender will need to change to

    “We arra Pissed on Peepul”

    Is it Internet abuse tae think aboot murder

    Just a last thought before I go to bed

    These moaning faced HGV drivers want to pause for thought for a minute, if Labour and the Tories had their way they’d be paying a hell of a lot in Bridge tolls to go anywhere…AND…

    Surprise Surprise the fall in the price of oil at last is good for Scotland HGVs fuel is cheaper, so a wee bit of glass half full lads eh
    Now a chorus of “We luv AlicSammin” who’ll start it aff

  384. Thepnr says:

    Britain Elects
    Scottish parliament voting intention (const.):
    SNP: 50% (-1)
    CON: 20% (+1)
    LAB: 19% (-2)
    (via YouGov / 01 – 04 Feb)
    Changes from October.

    Looks like the red tories are shifting en masse back to the blue tories in time for Holyrood elections. No surprise there, after this election time to turn our aim against the blue tories again.

  385. call me dave says:

    Plans to devolve support for unemployed people north of the Border have collapsed leaving the Smith Agreement on more powers for Holyrood in tatters, according to the head of Scotland’s charities’ body.

    https://archive.is/cFmkX

    Herald and Harvie talk up the 2nd vote for list seats..

    https://archive.is/HvZNM

    SNP x 2

  386. mike cassidy says:

    A digital black hole seems to be absorbing my posts.

    yesindyref2 11.35

    So Slab’s SRIT proposal would have raised some revenue not subject to blockgrant deduction. Could have been Tunnocks Tea Cakes all round.

    Gusl 12.19

    Thanks for that.

    Does this mean they just total all the Scottish tax up and tell the blockgrant people 10% of the total raised so they know what to deduct. That sounds too easy – but what the feck do I know!

  387. Fairliered says:

    Re: Alex Gallagher
    Some folk think they are clever.
    Some folk are thick as mince.
    Alex Gallagher ticks both boxes.
    When he loses his council seat next year he will find his ideal job on BBC Shortbread – as a quizmaster. (Ed)
    Seriously, he is as stupid when sober as George Foulkes is when drunk.
    Remember “braveheart” in the Herald? That’s wee Alex.
    He is councillor Terry Kelly on steroids.

  388. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 4 February, 2016 at 8:32 pm:

    ” … Firstly, a very odd childish sense of humour. Secondly, having spent their formative years in all male education, they really do have the oddest attitudes towards women.”

    Exactly! The Humour often tends to be somewhat lavatorial in content with a tendency to being a bit cruel.

    “Just like ….”

    Nudge! Nudge! Say no more.

  389. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 4 February, 2016 at 8:48 pm:

    “Isn’t it interesting Robert that no one from the Labour branch office has the where for all to figure out that no matter how you cut the tax cake (including ALL taxes) it is ALWAYS the poor and middle income families who end up being worse off financially.”

    If you think about it, Lesley-Anne, even the tax paid by the rich and famous was mainly gained at the expense of the poor. Business of all kinds just pass on some of what they gain from the customer. As the poor and middle class and the main customer base they are the origins of the wealth of the rich.

    “In my view Labour branch office is, and has been for some considerable time, just a branch office of the branch office of the BLUE Tory party in London.”

    It has been a very long time indeed since the leadership of the Labour Party were drawn from the working classes. In fact some of the three main unionist party leadership were classmates with each other at prep, boarding-school and University.

  390. call me dave says:

    Ten Scottish employers who have failed to pay the national minimum wage have been “named and shamed”.

    The Department for Business Innovation and Skills (BIS) has released a list of 92 businesses throughout the UK who have broken minimum pay rules.

    https://archive.is/nDTEp

  391. Robert Peffers says:

    @Valerie says: 4 February, 2016 at 11:04 pm:

    ” Not 90 day notices

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/thousands-of-staff-at-dundee-city-council-asked-to-consider-voluntary-redundancy-1.918639

    Well Valerie, they have all been at that game for a very long time. My step-son is a Senior Social Worker with Fife Council. Quite a long time ago Fife Council were looking for volunteers for redundancy.

    He had seen his case-load grow to almost unmanageable levels and he had built up a good pension from his pervious employer and from Fife Council. To the extent he couldn’t increase what he would get on retirement.

    Although they had circulated everyone they were not about to allow their better workers accept the offer. He is still working his heart out.

  392. Robert Peffers says:

    @Alan Mackintosh says: 4 February, 2016 at 11:16 pm:

    ” … Except not all items of expenditure in England trigger consequentials. Those things considered “national infrastructure ” dont cause any consequentials. Things like crossrail, london sewer upgrade, HS2 etc.

    You forgot all the “NATIONAL” Galleries, Museums, Ballet, Theatres and old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, an all and Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh an all.

    Not to mention such things as The Greenwich Observatory, The Dome and the Olympic Stadium. Et al.

  393. yesindyref2 says:

    @call me dave
    Yes, the Herald article has (from scotlandvotes) the SNP on 69 out of 73 constituency seats and 4 list seats, but I make it 6 list seats based on uniform swing.

    Labour are also at a critical point now on the Regional vote, drop 1% more and I have SNP on 2 more list seats. Haven’t checked any more yet but if they go below 18% they start losing even more, and the SNP pick up seats, so do the Cons if they stay steady and maybe rise a bit. But it looks then possible for the SNP to get a seat in every region bar Fife if Lab drop to 17%, and get 7th in Fife if Lab drop another half percent to 16.5%.

    It’s not an exact science and I’ve got to clean this spreadsheet up with a few more rows and formulas to make it less manual.

  394. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, if Labour drop a couple of percent more, they could be struggling to get 20 list seats. Expect desperation because if I can work a spreadsheet, so can they.

  395. jdman says:

    Robert Peffers
    “You forgot all the “NATIONAL” Galleries, Museums, Ballet, Theatres and old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and all, an all and Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh an all.”

    Eh
    Dartmouth Naval College?

  396. Petra says:

    O/T

    ‘Stay with us.’ ‘We love you Scotland.’ ‘We value you as an equal partner.’

    Westminster MPs decline to visit Scotland for the 11th time.

    ‘MSPs disappointment at welfare reform minister’s failure to meet committee.’

    ‘Members of Holyrood’s Welfare Reform Committee today expressed their continuing disappointment at the failure of UK Government Ministers to answer questions on their welfare reform programme in Scotland.

    The committee has been repeatedly frustrated in its attempts to question UK ministers on the welfare reforms introduced by the current Conservative UK Government and its predecessor coalition government.

    Current Employment Minister, Priti Patel MP, who is responsible for welfare reform, agreed to a public meeting with the committee when she met informally with its members last October. However, in a letter to the committee dated 22 January, Ms Patel states that “Parliamentary commitments” have so far prevented her meeting with the committee again and goes on to say that “for the same reasons” she “ would be unable to make it to Edinburgh before the Scottish Parliament is dissolved” in March. …………………………..

    Hugh Henry MSP, Convener of the Welfare Reform Committee has today replied to Ms Patel to once again reiterate the committee’s stated wish to hold a public meeting with her before dissolution on 23 March.

    Mr Henry, said: “UK Ministers have now declined to appear before the Welfare Reform Committee on 11 occasions, since the committee was created in 2011. When she met with us for informal talks last October, Priti Patel agreed to a public meeting in the New Year. “She has had four months to make this happen and she now tells us that she is unable to come to Edinburgh before dissolution in March.

    http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/96347.aspx#sthash.pf6hegfx.dpuf

    Stay with me

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOFok6-Tpt8

    ————————————————————————————

    Westminster strikes again.

    http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/14000-disabled-people-relying-specialist-motoring-allowance-have-mobility-cars-taken-away-1541827

  397. Arabs for Independence says:

    GMS trying really hard to find someone to talk up SLAB tax increases.

  398. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    4 February, 2016 at 10:46 pm
    @heed
    That’s completely it in a nutshell.

    Its like UKOK handing Scotland a car with a quarter tank of petrol and no gears, with SLabour, BBC, all Scotch press etc shrieking at you, you’re such a shite driver, over and over and over…

    No wonder Fluffie and co are in such good cheer.

  399. Lollysmum says:

    Nana at 8.29am
    Your last link re victims unite. The section on SNP’s election names Brian Spanner as being part of Operation Scallop. Same one? Not exactly a common name is it? Odd!

  400. Robert Kerr says:

    A question for Fluffy !

    “Do you honestly think you would be in the position you are if the Tory party had one other MP for a Scottish Constituency?”

    SNP SNP

  401. Famous15 says:

    I think GMS found someone to talk up their Labour tax position. I do not know his name but a journalist with. N Irish accent was word for word with Kezia including her disbelieving giggle. Even the interviewer was forced to get another journo in to neutralise the absurd bias.

  402. Nana says:

    @Lollysmum

    That is why I posted the link. As you say not exactly a common name.

    Let’s see what others thin of that article.

  403. galamcennalath says:

    YouGov

    Constituency ballot :

    SNP 50% (-1)
    Conservatives 20% (+1)
    Labour 19% (-2)

    Regional list ballot :

    SNP 42% (-3)
    Conservatives 20% (+1)
    Labour 20% (n/c)

    SNP sitting lower than TNS suggested the other day. Different sampling probably.

    However, this shows it is essential to vote SNP+SNP to get some list seats.

    Also, Ruthie’s plan to be the party of Unionism and get BritNat SLab voters to turn to the Tories might be working.

  404. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It is in my mind essential that we get a huge vote on the lists not primarily to get us more MSPs (thought that would be very satisfactory) but to get SNP over 50% of the list vote.
    In “mandate ” terms that would be hugely significant.
    We should perhaps canvas on “SNP+50% on Both votes” to counteract the “SNP vote is wasted on the lists” campaign

    This is also because I see very little chance of a significant number of other independence supporting MSPs making it to Holyrood.
    RISE, Solidarity and the Greens should have a chat to maximise their support by as far as possible not standing against each other. With them splitting up the list vote and probably achieving very little electoral success the Tories and Labour will get more than they deserve on the lists.
    That chat is however unlikely to happen

    Tories moving into second place on a derisory vote of 20% or less would probably consign Labour to Scottish history. Scotland against the Tories is what we need for IndyRef2

  405. Molly says:

    Arabs for Independence – didn’t take them long and here’s David Clegg to justify Labour.

    Do you think it ever dawns on Clegg/ The DR if they thought people were a wee bit unhappy about the Vow, they are going to be really cheesed off (If the media continue as the cheerleaders for raising tax ) if tax goes up, council tax goes up and people still lose their services and jobs due to Council cuts ?

    Do they really think their readers are that politically naive or is just their contempt for their readers showing ?

    Yet another week goes by and no one asks Ruth Davidson to justify her party’s policies .

    Perhaps Clegg should stop trying to sell us a pup and em maybe start asking questions .

    Of course Labour/Tory are unionists, they don’t have to answer to anyone do they ?

    In fact they don’t have to do anything, their activists in the media do all the running .

  406. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I see the YouGov poll above indeed has the Tories in second place. I don’t believe it but it is what the UK establishment wants as it understands that Labour in Scotland is dead and can’t be used any more to defend the union

  407. Bob Mack says:

    @Lollysmum,

    Yes you are right. It seems our right wing Unionist twitter clan are using “parody” accounts to mock those involved at the referendum. Remember that journalists such as Torrance were photographed in Scottish resistance T shirts as a gesture of ridicule for the independence movement.

    It would seem an in house joke to this clique.

    However,there are people on the hunt,and I do not think it will be too long before the actual owner of the account is unveiled.

    The real Mr Spanner was involved in the operation to ensure no rigging took place at the May elections, following the referendum result.

    This is the why this Unionist cabal use the account name to ridicule his objective.

  408. Valerie says:

    I had to look up Operation Scallop.

    An example tweet came up –

    Brian Spassange@brianspanner1

    It was from May 2015

    This guy is into everything. Just mentioning for those interested in this guy, as that moniker is a play on Assange, and not sure if that’s another identify???

  409. galamcennalath says:

    Dave McEwan Hill says:

    “RISE, Solidarity and the Greens …. splitting up the list vote and probably achieving very little electoral success the Tories and Labour will get more than they deserve on the lists.”

    Agree completely. This election is going to be fought out on the lists.

    LibDem may keep a couple of constituencies, Tories may actually gain a couple, Lab will lose all.

    The SNP will take all but 4-6 constituencies.

    THEN the regional lists will decide the number of seats each actually gets. In some regions Greens may take one, Solidarity will maybe get one in Glasgow. Rise will get nothing.

    Lab will get all their seats from the reg list.

    The regional lists are going to be critically important, not a second choice! Again, SNP+SNP is the safe option if SNP is your number one party.

  410. Petra says:

    O/T

    Chunky Mark: David Cameron “Cancer Sufferers to get 30% benefit cuts those unwilling to work will be sanctioned”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mw6oSGgOIUw

    ———————————————
    The cancer of the British body politic.’

    https://weegingerdug.wordpress.com/

    ———————————————

    ‘Julian Assange may finally walk out of his embassy refuge.’

    ‘The founder of WikiLeaks said on Thursday that at noon tomorrow, he would walk out of the Ecuadorian embassy in London, which has been his home for the past three and a half years as he sought to avoid arrest and extradition over charges of rape. He made his statement after a United Nations panel ruled that his stay in the embassy represented arbitrary detention, or being detained without due legal process.’

    http://www.cnet.com/news/julian-assange-may-finally-walk-out-of-his-embassy-refuge/

    ————————————————-

    Accident and Emergency Performance update – Audit Scotland

    http://www.audit-scotland.gov.uk/docs/health/2014/nr_140508_ae_update.pdf

    But when all’s said and done Scotland has the best Accident and Emergency Service in the World.

    http://www.thenational.scot/news/scotlands-ae-the-best-in-world—sturgeon-hits-back-on-health-record.13026

  411. Valerie says:

    Brian Spassange??? @BrianSpanner1

    https://www.rt.com/uk/256213-general-election-snp-fix/

    Seems he advocates conspiracy….

    I would love to see this guy unmasked. I had a low opinion of the media before, but now…….

  412. Irene says:

    Sorry for listening to Good Morning Scotland, but this morning they brought forward ‘an expert’ to comment on the Labour policy of raising tax to ‘help us all’. This was Torsten Bell of the Resolution Foundation, and we were given no background to this person or why he was informing everyone about what a good idea the tax hike was, very progressive and a good thing.
    I am no doubt niaive, but does everyone else know that ‘Torsten joined the Foundation in September 2015 as Director. Prior to this, Torsten was Director of Policy for the Labour Party and worked in the Treasury, both as a special adviser and a civil servant’. Also in this quotable institution is David Willetts, Executive Chair:
    David joined the Resolution Foundation as Executive Chair in June 2015. He was Minister for Universities and Science, attending Cabinet, from 2010-2014.
    We are constantly bombarded with ‘independent’ opinions from obscure organisations like this, the problem being no-one bothers to tell us they have their own agenda, which no doubt co-incides with that of the BBC.

  413. Bob Mack says:

    @Valerie,

    The Spassange is to highlight his similarity in situation with Julie Assange in that he feels he has been chased and forced to moderate his Internet activity.i.e. he is a prisoner of the public.

    This person is most definitely involved in the media.

  414. galamcennalath says:

    “Operation Scallop”

    I had never heard of it until now. It was in the CorpMedia in May.

    Was it a genuine online campaign to monitor votes? Or, was it just an excuse to ridicule conspiracy theorists by the media?

    Google search …
    site:wingsoverscotland.com operation scallop

    … show one mention. If it wasn’t talked about here, then there wasn’t much to it!

  415. One_Scot says:

    After the revelations of Spannergate, it would not surprise me if most knuckle dragging online yoons were journalist/ media/ wannabe politician types.

    Just can’t see the ordinary man in the street wanting to waste his time defending a corrupt and anti-Scottish union.

  416. Molly says:

    Valerie last night on Twitter , a tweet from 2014 was retweeted originally from Brian Spanner ( but not retweeted by BS if you see what I mean? )

    It was about Ireland and potatoes.

    Wasn’t funny just offensive.

    What struck me was, anyone living in Scotland would ( understandably) know how that tweet would be received and also how long he/she’s been at it.

    Makes you wonder when they are bold enough to offend like that , who is behind it ?

  417. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Famous 15, that would have been Davie Clegg, Norn Irish political hack for the daily redcoat.

  418. There is another aspect to those polls putting the Tories in second place.

    And that is for the establishment to frighten Labour voters to come out and vote Labour to stop the Tories becoming the official opposition in Scotland, in the hope
    that it could also stymie the SNP.

    This worked often enough in the past for Labour during general elections, people were told you had to vote ;Labour to stop/or keep the Tories out.

  419. Petra says:

    I posted comments earlier but they haven’t appeared so I’ve taken this from my original post (apologies if the latter does appear!)

    Very interesting at Nana / Lollysmum / Valerie re. Spanner.

    I see that Julian Assange may walk out of the Emabassy / be released soon. He’s the very person to unearth / expose the whole ‘spanner cabal’!

    ‘Julian Assange may finally walk out of his embassy refuge.’

    ‘The founder of WikiLeaks said on Thursday that at noon tomorrow, he would walk out of the Ecuadorian embassy in London, which has been his home for the past three and a half years as he sought to avoid arrest and extradition over charges of rape. He made his statement after a United Nations panel ruled that his stay in the embassy represented arbitrary detention, or being detained without due legal process.’

    http://www.cnet.com/news/julian-assange-may-finally-walk-out-of-his-embassy-refuge/

  420. Alan Gerrish says:

    ….and David Clegg insists those on £11k will be better off when they receive their £100 rebate so this proposal is an absolute no brainer, and it’s backed up by the “independent think tank” referred to by GMS, so there.

    DC also thinks it’s great the election campaign will now focus on real issues and not boring constitutional stuff thanks to oor Kezia.

    Aye, it’s always reassuring to listen to GMS!

  421. Andrew McLean says:

    Listening to the arguments for and against the 1p tax increase, to subsidise the tory austerity programme!

    Correct me if I am wrong but the mitigation proposed by labour was a £100 rebate for those earning up to £20,000, those earning up the threshold of £42,385 including tax free allowance will get nothing? So people with taxable income up to £31,785 are basic-rate taxpayers will pay tax at 21% those with taxable income over the limit will pay tax at 41% on income above the threshold. Taxable income over £150,000 is to be taxed at 46%.

    Various figures have been banded So in effect those earning the higher amounts say £200, 00.00 will pay an extra £1,200.

    The average wage earner will pay £164.00 also pensioners will pay more.

    All this, without discussing disposable income. That is money you have left over to spend as you like, you’re discretionary spending, like someone who decided on a whim last week to take themselves and the kids skiing in France, you know the kind of thing we all do!

    However back in the normal world the average debt per household is £6,598 this raised £353.33 over the year! So next year the average household will increase to approximately £7,000. without accounting for any other factor, it could rise to £7,353.33 at the present yearly rise!

    “Another year older and deeper in debt”, the new theme tune for the tragic comedy act that is the Labour Party, the one with the tartan knickers!

  422. Bob Mack says:

    @Peter McCulloch,

    Given that Labour are floundering then the ONLY sensible vote is for SNP to keep the Tories out.

    I agree that many hard line Unionists are now reverting to the Tories from Labour whose vote is ebbing away.

    This is now a straight fight between those who wish to remain in the UK and the natural recipient of that vote is Tory, and those who wish to leave whose natural home would be SNP. Positions are solidifying. Labour is a wasted vote in that struggle,and I think people now realise this,hence the shift in polls.

    Interesting times.

  423. Andrew McLean says:

    My post above was compiled using Labours own figures and those of the Debt Charity statistics for January 2016
    http://www.themoneycharity.org.uk/money-statistics/

  424. Robert Peffers says:

    @Orri says: 4 February, 2016 at 7:59 pm:

    “So next time someone mentions higher taxes in Scandinavian countries ask them if there’s the same level of hidden taxation as here.”

    What I find as rather strange, Orri, is that these taxes aren’t hidden in any way. They are right, bang in your face for all to see.

    On receipts, i.e. supermarket till rolls, VAT is clearly shown. It seems to be a mental block in most members of the public’s mind. They regularly are charged 20 pence on every pound they spend yet it doesn’t register with them nearly as much as one penny taken from their earnings.

    Yet with those with no, “Disposable Income”, that is the poorer people, they are often docked up to 20% of their income in tax while not earning enough to pay Income Tax.

    It isn’t hidden, they just don’t seem to see the VAT as the Government taxing them and usually blame the retailer, or service provider, for the price being high.

    Then add in the insult of the retailer, or service provider, being an unpaid government tax collector.

    Indirect taxation is designed to penalise the poor more than the rich. Note the Tory twin policies of upping indirect tax while cutting top rate tax. Laughingly telling us, “We are all in this together”.

  425. Petra says:

    @ Bob Mack says at 9:51 am …. ”Given that Labour are floundering then the ONLY sensible vote is for SNP to keep the Tories out. I agree that many hard line Unionists are now reverting to the Tories from Labour whose vote is ebbing away. This is now a straight fight between those who wish to remain in the UK and the natural recipient of that vote is Tory, and those who wish to leave whose natural home would be SNP. Positions are solidifying. Labour is a wasted vote in that struggle,and I think people now realise this,hence the shift in polls. Interesting times.”

    Spot on Bob. It’s no longer about ‘right and left’. It’s Nationalists versus Unionists in Scotland now and SLab stand for nothing and no-one. Worse than useless.

    And just thinking back to the time that they ‘cosied up’ to the Tories who have used and abused them since ….. scuppered them at every turn and totally humiliated them. That alone tells you that SLab are a waste of space.

    The only hope that they have left is to announce their intention to break away from Westminster and support Independence.

  426. Les Wilson says:

    Irene says:
    Good post Irene, and you are very right to be skeptical.
    The BBC always come up with someone or some obscure “think tank” of some sort to suit their agenda. As you point out lots of these are usually Unionist connected.

    This shows the EBC for what it really is, and John Swinney’s interrogation this morning was openly bias against the SNP. Happily John handled the interview well, and showed up Gary Robertson for what he is and what his employers stand for.

    Propaganda is a tool used to attempt to change your mind on any chosen subject, that suits their agenda, to steal your vote for their own needs.

    There is none better than the UK government at using these tactics. The problem for them is that a big percentage of Scots, can now recognise their deceit when we see and hear it, we have had plenty practice with the corrupt EBC and BUM.

  427. Hamish100 says:

    The expert fom the foundation was an advisor to someone called Ed Milliband

    Political neutral of course!

    BBC bias.

    Noticed Bradford turned up last night to discuss bad snp bad NHS. Whole 5 mins. Previous evening Scotland has the best waiting time stats for the whole of the uk. 5 secs then move on.

  428. David says:

    Imagine Labour will be rebranding themselves as the Unionist party in a hope of getting their supporters back. To be fair maintaining the union does seem to be the one thing that Labour truly believes in.

  429. Mabel says:

    re Valerie and Spanner

    I read about the Scallop thing on RT at the time of the election and came across SpannerMP I think at that time and decided to find out more about him and that’s when I came across some of his tweets. I also remember Spanneropolous, Spanneravitch or similar changes in name and he’s always been out to needle any independence supporters or MPs and has seemed to increase boldness of contact with the folk who support him – or rather they’ve become more vocal in support of him.

    Not using twitter myself, but just reading it since it’s a quick way of finding out news/politics/briefings I didn’t know you could get statistic on interactions with other people until I saw one person post a screenshot. Using twitter for info as I do and typing in certain names or terms for search I’ve found him popping up increasingly on certain results. I was reading twitter feeds and saw the memogate thing unfold and be shot down quickly at that time and likewise watched as the Whitford then Rowling thing came about. It annoyed me that anyone should blame McGarry for somehow starting this, for if they think that they’ve not been paying attention. He’s often been there and is one of the ones needling away.

    As for who he is, he’s media savvy, likes making fun of us or poking us with a stick, is on twitter a lot and has support of people who should know better. If a journalist I’d bet on Daisley but who knows if he is a journalist and after all Ian Smart has been quiet for a bit since his suspension – no doubt he harbours a grudge for Labour being forced into that. Whatever’s behind it, it stinks.

  430. Luigi says:

    Bob Mack says:

    5 February, 2016 at 9:51 am

    @Peter McCulloch,

    Given that Labour are floundering then the ONLY sensible vote is for SNP to keep the Tories out.

    I agree that many hard line Unionists are now reverting to the Tories from Labour whose vote is ebbing away.

    This is now a straight fight between those who wish to remain in the UK and the natural recipient of that vote is Tory, and those who wish to leave whose natural home would be SNP. Positions are solidifying. Labour is a wasted vote in that struggle,and I think people now realise this,hence the shift in polls.

    Interesting times.

    Indeed. At face, the tory strategy of going all out for the union vote looks sound and will indeed harvest some of the unionist, Blairite voters in what’s left of Scottish Labour. However, as a long term strategy to “save the union” it is deemed to failure. The main reason being a hard truth that the BritNats cannot bear to face:

    Not all the 55% NO voters are (or were) committed unionists (aka BritNats). Let’s be generous and give them 30% of the electorate. The remaining are a combination of apathetics, devo-maxers and hardline independence supporters. Whatever they are, they do not care much for the union. The apathetics (if they bother to vote) and the devomaxers will support who they trust to run a country, and most of them like Nicola Sturgeon. The indies?, well if the Greens and RISE think they can influence who this group will vote for – it’s the toughest nut of all good luck!

    IMO the tories understand this and don’t really care long term, as long as they can screw Scotland and screw Labour. Labour are all at sea as usual. They know they have a ginormous problem but still don’t know what to do about it. Their cunning tax plan looks like it will backfire big time.

    Scottish elections for the foreseeable future will be fought on the constitutional issue: unionist or nationalist. There is no getting away from it now. If Labour don’t face this issue and try to stay on the constitutional fence, they will be squeezed between the tories and SNP – squeezed very hard indeed.

  431. Robert Peffers says:

    @jdman says: 5 February, 2016 at 5:49 am:

    “Eh
    Dartmouth Naval College?”

    Aye! And many, many more that most people don’t even know exist. For example, “The Institute of Naval Medicine”, Gosport. The, “Atomic Weapons Research Establishment”, (AWRE), that has its main site on the former RAF Aldermaston. This is now, believe it or not, privatised.

    There are, literally, hundreds of such, “secret”, sites in the UK that are funded, directly or indirectly, with taxpayer’s money but you won’t find them on the UK’s balance sheets and Scots pay their whack to support them.

  432. @Bob Mack
    5 February, 2016 at 9:51 am

    I agree with you that Labour are floundering and
    the ONLY sensible vote is for SNP to keep the
    Tories out.

    But maybe I am being over cautious, I take absolutely nothing for granted and will only relax when we get the result we want and need.

  433. Marcia says:

    I bit of caution on these polls that have been published in the past two days. The track record of polls in the run up to the Westminster election is not that great so don’t take them as 100% accurate. Look at the trend is best. However they must be making Labour feeling uncomfortable. For those readers who support SNP, no complacency, get out and campaign. (BTW I have done so twice this week. 🙂 )

  434. Luigi says:

    Hamish100 says:

    5 February, 2016 at 10:21 am

    The expert fom the foundation was an advisor to someone called Ed Milliband

    Political neutral of course!

    WTF – this guy’s organisation was presented by the disgraceful BBC Labour this morning as an “independent” source. Utterly appalling.

    I see the SNP BAD agenda is still in full flow. BBC Labour are trying very hard to sell the Better Together tax. Unashamed propaganda at its worst.

    O/T Anyone noticed that the latest RUSSIA BAD propaganda being spewed by the BBC? Putin being demonised, even though it is the USA and its UK poodle blatantly breaking all the international laws. You don’t have to dig very deep to see that Russia and China have put forward reasonable proposals but it’s the US ball and he’s not playing. And then there was that silly war game dramatization, showing the UK to be important and decisive (aye right).

    Seriously though, folks, pay attention – things are not going according to the neoliberal plan, and who knows what those idiots who govern us will do next. The western leaders are controlled by insane neoliberals and we are being prepared for war.

    IMO by 2020, Scotland will be independent, or those of us unlucky to survive WW3 will be living in caves, watching Bruce’s spider.

  435. Capella says:

    Re Brian Spassange. Looks like a spoof to ridicule SNP activists. SNPout tweeting it according to the RT article Valerie linked to.

    http://on.rt.com/gvh65l

    Comments below point out that it is illegal to take photos inside the Polling Station so anyone following Spanner’s advice could have been arrested.

    “It IS strictly illegal to film inside the polling booth.

    We clarified it in the referendum in 2014.

    The two electoral officials said that if they caught anyone using a camera, they had instructions to detain them and summon the police. No exceptions…

    Exactly which is why I think this a plant by SNPout as there the ones that would benefit from votes being made void also rigging wouldn’t be attempted in an election this big as it’d be clearly seen by the whole country.”

  436. call me dave says:

    Hark the Herald and See Wullie (recovered from his mauling yesterday it seems)
    _________________________________

    “John Swinney’s faltering performance on the radio this morning tells you all you need to know about the SNP’s approach to this issue”.
    ________________________________
    Aye right Wullie.

    I said on Thursday after FMQs it’s about them and us now!

    SNP x 2

  437. Phil Robertson says:

    Looks like the “Big Split” is between the parties prepared to increase tax to alleviate problems and the Tory/Tartan Tory alliance to do nothing to save jobs.

    And it’s started. The first council to announce job cuts includes the SNP in its ruling coalition and, as last year, it looks like some of these cuts will involve compulsory redundancies.

    As Neil Findlay pointed out, the living wage doesn’t help much if you don’t have a job!

  438. Dan Huil says:

    Labour in Scotland were desperate to do Westminster’s dirty work during the referendum. Now they are desperate to do Westminster’s dirty work in their support for the insulting and potentially damaging Scotland Bill. Labour really hate the people of Scotland. Labour wants to introduce the Trident Tax which would penalise those on small incomes. Labour and the bbc have very selective memories. Well, at least the lines are now clear cut: pro-indy versus anti-indy [which, as usual, includes the vast majority of the media].

  439. Sinky says:

    Phil

    Labour MPs abstained rather than vote against George Osborne’s cuts. Why should Scots pay twice for Tory austerity?

    Also labour’s plans are unworkable and unfair on lower paid

    http://www.snp.org/labour_s_tax_hike_unfair_and_unworkable

  440. Les Wilson says:

    Some of the words in this could apply to us, but mostly us to Westminster. Make up your own mind.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TH_YbBHVF4g

  441. Fred says:

    A most peculiar intervention by Mundell on the Fiscal Framework issue, he accuses John Swinney of “Chancing his arm” & disagrees with the Feb’ 14 deadline. “I wouldn’t want to spoil Nicola & Peter’s Valentine evening by phoning up with new proposals!” mebbes the auld sweetie-wife has fish of his own to fry that night?

  442. In today’s courier, Union official claims ‘Yes city’ has been betrayed by SNP administration’s acceptance of cuts.

    Doesn’t he understand that as long as we remain under the control of Westminster, John Swinney is limited in what he can do to mitigate those Westminster Tory cuts?

    The only other alternative is to do what Labour proposes and hammer those on low incomes with hikes in income and council taxes.

    And if John Swinney and SNP controlled councils did that, they would then be condemned for reducing the living standards of their constituents and union memebers.

  443. K1 says:

    Luckily mair people read Wings for the political news in Scotland than the courier, record, herald, scotman et al. Disnae matter whit they print noo, the games a bogey.

  444. Phil Robertson says:

    sinky

    I’ll pull one quote from the link you suggested.
    “the idea of raising taxes across the board is … entirely regressive.”

    The worrying thing here is that John Swinney & co. clearly don’t understand what a regressive tax is – “a regressive tax imposes a greater burden (relative to resources) on the poor than on the rich”.

    In round figures, someone on £12,000 pays 2% of their income in income tax, someone on £20,000 pays 9%. Income tax has its flaws but being regressive is not one of them.

  445. Gary45% says:

    Ian Brotherhood @10.48pm.
    Sorry Ian,
    I have just spent the last 45 min’s trying to find the footage you are looking for, No luck 🙁

  446. Sinky says:

    Labour’s plan is not progressive as under this middle income earners will see their tax bill rise by 5% but those on 40% tax rate will see their tax bill rise by only 2%.

  447. Phil Robertson says:

    Sinky says:
    5 February, 2016 at 5:15 pm
    Labour’s plan is not progressive as under this middle income earners will see their tax bill rise by 5%.

    Your arithmetic is as poor as John Swinney’s. The tax bill in this tax year for a £20,000 income is £1880. Next year, with a 21p rate, it would be £1890. That is not a rise of 5%.

    Those on £15,000 and below will see a decrease.

  448. thomaspotter2014 says:

    Phil Robertson@6.21

    FUCK OFF.

  449. John Silver says:

    I think the Yes side (to which I belong) has done itself no favours with its knee jerk “Slab baaad” reaction to this proposal. It’s not perfect & is riddled with flaws but attempts to address a problem that the SNP appear to be ignoring.

  450. K1 says:

    Slab Baaad? Seriously…is that a thing like ‘SNP bad”…does the entire Scottish selection of newspapers (apart from 1)and news outlets, repeatedly print and report on spurious shite about Labour?

    Cause that Mr Silver is where the terms ‘SNP bad’ originated, from the constant deluge of non stories, fabrications and lies promulgated by the msm about the SNP’s performance in govt., whether the particular area under discussion is within the SNP’s remit or not.

    Now on yer other point…that Slab’s actual proposal is ‘not perfect & is riddled with flaws’ can you now enlighten and elaborate on ‘attempts to address a problem that the SNP appear to be ignoring.’?

    What is it you are actually saying here?

    Why don’t you go on to explain what exactly you feel/think the SNP is not addressing in this matter?

    Until the fiscal framework is agreed and in place, the SNP quite rightly will not speculate about tax raising initiatives that are based on fantasy projections. They won’t be leading the Scottish electorate up the garden path with proposals that are not perfect and riddled with flaws.

    Have some faith man, if indeed your are of the Yes persuasion. The SNP aren’t about to reveal their hand until they know exactly whit cards they huv to play wi. (imv)

  451. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I don’t, usually, address trolls directly, but…

    Hi John Silver.

    You uttered, in type,

    ” think the Yes side (to which I belong) has done itself no favours with its knee jerk “Slab baaad” reaction to this proposal. It’s not perfect & is riddled with flaws but attempts to address a problem that the SNP appear to be ignoring.”

    WHY is it the YES side’s, or the SNP’s, responsibility to sort out the “not perfect & is riddled with flaws” offering from Labour (Scotlandshire Branch)?

    Anyone up for a Wings get-together in Inverness, at,

    http://www.jdwetherspoon.com/pubs/all-pubs/scotland/highland/the-kings-highway-inverness

    ???

  452. Andrew Mclean says:

    John silver

    It wasn’t a knee jerk reaction, the SNP was down this’s road first! It’s a bloody bad idea taxing people in times like this austerity!

    It’s like mugging the mugged, our punching the punched, you’ll be remembered as the perpetrator! Not he first to perpetuate the act!

  453. John Silver says:

    K1 says:

    Slab Baaad? Seriously…is that a thing like ‘SNP bad”

    It’s certainty a thing I have observed – of course it is different – because the MSM aren’t doing it – but it appears to me that there is a mindset within the yes movement that “if it Slab it must be bad”

    Brian Doonthetoon says:

    I don’t, usually, address trolls directly,

    Hi John Silver.

    You uttered, in type,

    WHY is it the YES side’s, or the SNP’s, responsibility to sort out the “not perfect & is riddled with flaws” offering from Labour (Scotlandshire Branch)?

    Hi Brian, you are the first person to call me a troll. In answer to your question, it is not the SNP’s responsibility to sort out anything that Slab offers. However, I personally would like to see them address the issue that Slab (imperfectly) attempts to address with its half-baked tax plan.

    Andrew Mclean says:

    John silver

    It wasn’t a knee jerk reaction, the SNP was down this’s road first! It’s a bloody bad idea taxing people in times like this austerity!

    hi Andrew. I agree its a bloody bad idea taxing people. It’s also a bloody bad idea imposing cuts. If you can devise a means to tax people in a way that doesn’t hurt the worst off but gives you funds to mitigate the cuts, that seems to me to be a bloody good idea. Labour have not achieved this.
    But they have had a bash.

  454. K1 says:

    The point is SNP are ‘not’ ‘baaad’. That’s the unspoken agenda from the corpmedia writ large across all reporting of SG’s performance.

    Slab are in fact promoted as ‘gooood’ when in reality they are exposed constantly across the non corpmedia for the shysters and spinners that they are.

    That’s not SLab ‘baaad’. That’s the actual reality stripped bare of the sheen of legitimacy that corpmedia gives them by constantly promoting them and their half baked policies as somehow newsworthy completely bereft of deeper analysis.

    So maybe it’s ‘Corpmedia Baaaaad’, that Indy folk are really highlighting by pointing out the fault lines in Slab’s policies that seem to be absent from the actual reporting and analysis of their proposals?

  455. John silver says:

    I agree with you about SNP baaad. We have no dispute there.
    And I am not for a moment suggesting that “my’ slab bad is the same thing. It’s not.
    Perhaps I shouldn’t have used that phrase as it possibly suggests the 2 things are similar.
    I am not a member of the SNP although they get my vote more often than not.
    Part of what attracts me to the SNP is their opposition to the Tories’ austerity programme. Given that they are powerless to do anything about it at a UK level, they should be looking to do what they can with limited powers at their disposal in Scotland. They have done precious little, leaving them open to the accusation that they prefer to moan about Westminster injustice than do anything about it.
    Labour’s tax proposals are riddled with flaws …but at least they appear to be trying to do something about Tory cuts. Condemning them out of hand as the SNP & most of the broader yes movement has done looks like old fashioned Westminster politics…everything my opponent proposes must be bad.

  456. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi John Silver.

    On reflection, my use of “trolls” was unnecessary so I apologise for the use of the word.

    The rest of my point stands. GA Ponsonby has done a decent job of deconstructing what Labour (with the BBC’s help) was actually up to with their meaningless ‘penny on income tax’ scam. “Meaningless”, because Labour knows it will not be in any position to enact the policy.

    http://ponsonbypost.com/index.php/comment/57-now-on-bbc-scotland-the-great-labour-tax-swindle



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