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Wings Over Scotland


The BBC, home of the facts

Posted on July 23, 2014 by

There’s an article on the BBC website today with the self-explanatory title of “Scottish independence: How would the UK fare without Scotland?”

bbcfacts

On the left is what it said yesterday (that losing Scotland would be bad for the UK). On the right is what it says today (that losing Scotland would be good for the UK).

Does anyone know what calamity befell Scotland’s economy overnight?

The article has all manner of oddities about it. Firstly, it doesn’t show up on the normally-diligent NewsSniffer as having been changed at all. Yet a Google search for the deleted paragraph shows that it clearly used to be there, and under the same URL.

googledetrimental

[EDIT 12.32: Newsdiffs does hint at the changes, though.]

The original stats also appear on this incredibly strange page, which appears to have been auto-translated into a foreign language and then auto-translated back again.

The page now carries a footnote saying “An earlier version of this article misrepresented some data on life expectancy and GDP.” But there’s no mention of how the error arose or what the nature of it was.

The Scottish Government’s figures for GDP per capita (naturally including a geographic share of oil revenues) clearly show Scotland with a higher figure than that of the UK.

gdppc

We’re not clear what the BBC has based its alternative figures on. But we’re sure they’ll issue a detailed and referenced statement of clarification any minute now.

As long as they’re not dazzled by the current bright sunlight in Glasgow and can’t get permission from England to close the blinds, of course.

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  1. 23 07 14 13:43

    The BBC, home of the facts | Scottish Independence News

  2. 24 07 14 00:16

    When Cock Up Starts To Feel Like Conspiracy | A Greater Stage

  3. 18 01 15 11:14

    The Lyon Yawns: A Majority of Scots Believe BBC Political Coverage Is Biased

384 to “The BBC, home of the facts”

  1. Smith says:

    OUTRAGEOUS!

  2. IcySpark says:

    Also does not include any share of Oil figures.

  3. Indy_Scot says:

    Preparing England for a YES vote?

  4. handclapping says:

    I opened my purse and the moth got out but I thought it was butterflies that changed the world when we weren’t looking

  5. Holebender says:

    I bet we lost all that accursed oil, or something.

  6. I noted yesterday when reading that article that it also seems to suggest that if we were independent, “..an already busy country would suddenly become much more crowded, statistically at least.”

    Weird.

  7. muttley79 says:

    Why would it not include any share of oil? That is bonkers.

  8. Minty says:

    Starting to ‘plant the seed’ that a Yes vote is a good thing for rUK – just in case.

  9. Palpatine says:

    You really couldn’t make it up……. unless you’re the BBC.

  10. David Wardrope says:

    Notice the source under the first part has been updated between yesterday and today, don’t know what it means exactly as I’m not too clever.

  11. Jordan says:

    Have they removed the oil revenue (“not allocated GVA removed”) to make Scotland’s GDP look worse than the UK’s?

  12. Juteman says:

    Is it true that Scottish products leaving the UK from an English port are classed as an English export?

  13. Oh wait!! Yesterday it said an “already busy island”. Now it’s changed to “Country”. I’m sure it said Island yesterday.

  14. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Can’t we ask the BBC to explain why they’ve done this ?

  15. Mosstrooper says:

    It would appear that the LOSS of almost 17 billion of UK GDP would lead to an increase in said GDP.

    Is it me?

  16. IcySpark says:

    And yet here is the BBC’s page from earlier this year showing GDP per person with and without oil and gas:

    Including Oil and Gas:
    UK £22336, Scotland £26424

    Without Oil and Gas:
    UK £20873, Scotland £20571

  17. So it is in everyone’s interest, rUK and Scotland, for us to vote Yes. That’s a great argument for those selfless souls who were worried about the effect on the rUK. Apparently it’s good. Good for Scotland too, we know that, so, in happy-clappy management talk, it’s ‘Win-Win’.

    BTNothanks can pack up their gear and retire, their work is not needed.

  18. Bunter says:

    What say the ONS on these strange ”interpretations” by the state broadcaster.

  19. Kenneth Shaw says:

    Oil …..we’ve got oil ?

  20. Gray says:

    What are these “non allocated GVA” that have been removed from the second calculation to give them the figures they prefer to show as rUK subsidising Scotland?

  21. I hate to think how your puter runs w. all these screen shots. But thanks.

    There does seem to be a bit of a tenor of change in news .. Gaza was mentioned. Maybe the non-journalists drafted in (?) are not adequately briefed to follow the W?M script.

  22. Muscleguy says:

    The GVA for the UK as a whole has dropped in the second one. So it’s not just the Scottish economy that has apparently tanked. The UK has lost £290.22 ponds per head overnight in economic output.

    Also the accuracy of the figures has changed. To the last penny on the left but only to the last pound on the right. So, a rounding error produces different outcome figures as found by an eager bright young thing?

    Either way some financial jiggery-pockery with a calculator or a spreadsheet has gone on. I can see big Brian bethering in anger at a positive story for Yes and demanding changes.

  23. velofello says:

    Is it not the case that Scottish produce exported via English ports are defined as English exports? And where is the section on imports?

    In a word. Yawn

  24. mogabee says:

    Well Westminster, I looked very carefully but have found NO zip anywhere on my body!

    Nice try…

  25. Muscleguy says:

    @Rosa
    Could it be they have been embarrassed by Jon Snow on C4 News tearing into Israeli spokes-creatures? And sympathetically interviewing Gazan doctors? The other public service broadcaster is showing up Aunty big time.

  26. RogueCoder says:

    I noticed this this Rev and was going to draw your attention to it. Yep, they’ve taken out the oil revenue. This is highly misleading – unless rUK somehow intends to screw Scotland out of its natural resources, their economy is going to suffer. This is blatant propaganda and ScotGov should get onto this demanding why BBC is misrepresenting Scotland’s contribution to UK economy.

  27. Douglas Gourlay says:

    They’ve basically removed about £2.4b from the Scottish contribution overnight!! Now that’s magic!!!

  28. Alex Smith says:

    @Steve Stewart
    You’re right, it did say island yesterday. I remember thinking how incongruous it was.

  29. Arajag says:

    It says clearly today that not allocated GVA (gross value added) is removed, Yesterday it didn’t. Hence the difference.

  30. tartanthing says:

    The BBC lie machine should have a dedicated website to publish all their transgressions.

  31. Calum Craig says:

    It does state at the bottom of the page “An earlier version of this article misrepresented some data on life expectancy and GDP. This has now been amended.” but gives no explanation about what was changed or why.

  32. James S says:

    The difference seems to have excluded ‘not allocated’ GVA in the second version.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_value_added

    Quoting from Wikipedia:

    GVA – Relationship to gross domestic product

    GVA is linked as a measurement to gross domestic product (GDP), as both are measures of output. The relationship is defined as:

    GVA + taxes on products – subsidies on products = GDP

    As the total aggregates of taxes on products and subsidies on products are only available at whole economy level, Gross value added is used for measuring gross regional domestic product and other measures of the output of entities smaller than a whole economy. Restated,

    GVA = GDP + subsidies – (direct, sales) taxes

    Over-simplistically, GVA is the grand total of all revenues, from final sales and (net) subsidies, which are incomes into businesses. Those incomes are then used to cover expenses (wages & salaries, dividends), savings (profits, depreciation), and (indirect) taxes.

    —–

    Basically it seems to exclude the things ONLY Scotland can produce, such as Scotch Whisky as this would be a Gross Regional Domestic Product (GRDP) – much the same as you can’t get sea fish in the Lake District.

    On a company level:

    http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/gross-value-added.asp

    Investopedia explains ‘Gross Value Added – GVA’

    At the company level, this metric could be calculated to represent the gross value added by a particular product or service the company currently produces or provides. In other words, the GVA number reveals how much money the product or service contributed towards meeting the company’s fixed costs and providing opportunity for a bottom-line profit.

    Once the consumption of fixed capital and the effects of depreciation are subtracted, the company knows how much net value the operation adds to its bottom line.

    ——

    Leaves me wondering if any of the fixed assets Scotland has paid towards, like the Palace of Westminster are included.

  33. IcySpark says:

    Here’s my original post from another thread showing the differences in full:

    Alert Readers:

    Spot the difference!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28192293

    vs

    http://reliablenewsupdate.com/scottish-independence-how-would-the-uk-fare-without-scotland-bbc-news/

  34. Churm Rincewind says:

    There’s no mystery here. The calculation in the first table is based on GDP per head. The figures in the second table are based on GDP figures with “not allocated” GVA removed. So of course they’re different.

    The real question is which calculation is more robust. Any economists and/or statisticians out there care to comment?

  35. Calum Craig says:

    Ah, oops that’s been noted…

  36. Mosstrooper says:

    OH! I’ve got it, Scotland becomes independent but gives all our income to rUK so the loss of our population means more to spread around EWNI. Ergo the rUK gets more. Simples.

  37. heedtracker says:

    Tuesday BBC, Yes vote costs UK £282.50 pro-rata , Wednesday BBC Yes vote gains UK £117 pro-rata? What on earth is going on at very creepy vote no BBC.

  38. Coolheads Prevail says:

    How the BBC must miss the days when they could get away with this kind of thing. They are the Ministry of Truth, but the memory hole just doesn’t work anymore.

  39. handclapping says:

    Its the “non-allocated” Scotlands Extra Regio oil. To quote from ONS GVANUTS1 4 The GVA for Extra-Regio comprises compensation of employees and gross operating surplus which cannot be assigned to regions.

    Happy to help

  40. To be fair, they did put a tiny note at the very bottom of the article to explain.

    ‘An earlier version of this article misrepresented some data on life expectancy and GDP. This has now been amended’

    And they finally found a map that shows Scotland’s true size. That’s got to be a start.

    Of course they don’t say which data had changed, so we can’t check for ourselves.

  41. Gray says:

    BBC obviously making their case for a currency union after independence by stressing how close the two economies are.

    Also kindly emphasising what the Scottish Government have said all along in that Scotland’s economy is pretty much on par with that of rump UK even without the bonus of oil revenues.

    Now if they would just make their caption a bit clearer to mention “OIL REVENUE REMOVED” we’d be delighted by their contribution.

  42. Douglas Gourlay says:

    Oops, my mistake £24billion.

  43. ronnie anderson says:

    {what disaster befell Scotland’s economy overnight].

    Well ah did see a wee laddy running tae the shop wie a

    bag of rammy’s, alas he fell & the bottles smashed,(thats

    the negative ) ah gied him a brush n shovel he sweept

    them up an put them in the ( re cycle bin) ( positive )ah gied him aa couple of ice lollies fur him an his wee sister.

  44. JLT says:

    Rev …you might be on to something here. Maybe, a few emails, and a daily reminder of the BBC’s illogical wee facts page above may force them to explain it. Personally, I doubt it, but hey …if it annoys them. Great!

  45. Defo says:

    What happens to the figures if the Russian oligarchs stolen trillions of roubles squirreled away here are removed ?

  46. No no no...yes says:

    This should help keep the beeb in the spotlight. I hope visitors during the Games get to read this:

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9492-snp-calls-on-bbc-to-address-serious-concerns-after-report-questions-news-coverage

  47. Haggis Hunter says:

    I dare say they will be including Scotch whisky as a UK export, not Scottish, as it leaves from an English port?

  48. heedtracker says:

    Same BBC economics genius attacking AlicSamin, or one more posh angry BBC lady calls Scotland’s First Minister a “husband walking out and taking everything” and also a used car salesman that she says someone in Glasgow told her they wont buy from. Its a rough watch with a very angry BBC ligger from 45 mins, what a face on her at the end:D

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04bn62d/newsnight-22072014

  49. Ravelin says:

    I saw yesterday’s version and knew it wouldn’t last, I mean we can’t show that rUK would in any way ‘suffer’, or that Scotland would ‘benefit’, from a YES vote can we?

    The other stuff about population densities and average life expectancies is just utterly pointless guff!

  50. Jim Marshall says:

    Well spotted Stuart. Obviously the author of these reports trained in the Robert Peston school of economics.

  51. Dcanmore says:

    It seems to me that this article was originally made by a foreign body (for a foreign publication?) hastily auto translated into English for the BBC to pick up then given a once over by a unionist eye to make appropriate changes… negative Scotland/positive UK … a strange one in any case.

  52. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I haven’t had the time, ok I couldn’nt be ersed, to look where the figures of the BBC actually came from but I would venture from 2012 anyway.

    The two largest exports of the UK were oil and whisky with Scottish foodstuffs quite high too in intra UK importance.

    So as the whisky exports go through UK ports and are designated at Engish exportsand high value electronics go through Heathrow, factor that lot out with no currency union and England+ etc is verily fwucked.

  53. TYRAN says:

    – “If Scotland left, life expectancy would rise by 0.4 years for men and 0.3 years for women”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28192293

    How absolutely stupid is that?! Think about it. People would magically life longer.

  54. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Venture not from 2012

    Sorry

  55. scottish_skier says:

    What’s happened is all my colleagues and I in oil and gas have ceased to exist.

    Oil just produces itself you know. You don’t have to do anything. Just look out to see and watch. Oil rigs, pipelines etc just grow organically from the sea bed and start pumping the stuff ashore. In response, gas plants and refineries form naturally from the fusion of sand and grass… No people actually work in the industry. I’m likely just still on some trip 14 years after my drink was spiked at uni rather than sitting in an office in Edinburgh telling oil companies e.g. what gas hydrate inhibitor dosage to use.

    Of course as the oil fields are not on (Scot)land either, then they’re not really Scottish so ‘unallocated’.

  56. James S says:

    @Haggis Hunter

    It does seem that’s exactly what has happened.

    Almost like a game of find the lady when the target has seen a plant win the first round, then there are no lady cards as they’re all up the sleeve until the final reveal. The House makes the rules and changes them as it sees fit.

  57. Doug Daniel says:

    The BBC must think rUK will be keeping all the oil.

    It would be interesting to know who demanded that this be changed. Was it some BBC manager? Or did the order come from someone in the UK government?

    Either way, it’s one of the clearest examples yet of the BBC being nothing more than a unionist propaganda mouthpiece.

  58. handclapping says:

    Dozy reader award. Found in gvanuts12013_tcm77-345463.xls from the ONS website

  59. IcySpark says:

    What is laughable about this BBC story is in the headline:

    Scottish independence: How would the UK fare without Scotland?

    Yet they then show figures with the UK still having a 90% share of Scotlands oil.

  60. ronnie anderson says:

    Noo the BBC went tae alot of trouble tae produce those Graph’s noo if there no suitable fur you’s they will produce mair, wance the chinge the battery’s on they’re rubber calculator( it stetches ya know, tae greater lenght’s ) bit figure’s ur distorted.

  61. Graeme Doig says:

    Slightly OT but can someone, better informed than me (not hard), explain why Mark Carney and DC get to hijack events today.
    I’m sure there is a logical explanation

  62. Lesley-Anne says:

    O.K. hands up! Who lent the BBC Danny Alexander’s substitute calculator? Come on now own up who was it? 😉

    It just keeps getting better and better for the good old BBC these days. Here’s a link to an article on Newsnet about the latest report produced by the Audience Council Scotland.

    According to the report, BBC Scotland needs a “thorough reassessment” of its news output with viewers north of the border questioning the broadcaster’s impartiality over its covering of the independence referendum.

    http://tinyurl.com/q5mz4eh

  63. PRJ says:

    Just read it!! BT propaganda all in one. Where is the analysis??

  64. desimond says:

    Another fine example of why I don’t believe a word in media, and especially the BBC.

    And of course I am not alone.

    Hopefully with a new Scottish broadcast service we can all move on but as the trusting old-school generations fade and die, just watch the cynicism tsunami flood towards the once proud BBC and its petty self serving media, business and political allies.

  65. HandandShrimp says:

    It says clearly today that not allocated GVA (gross value added) is removed, Yesterday it didn’t. Hence the difference.

    Just so and as a lot of Scotland’s activity, particularly oil falls under the not allocated tag, such an approach would be more detrimental to Scotland’s figures.

    It is not, of course a very sensible approach to take if one wants to see the net effect of Scottish independence.

    I would agree with the above comment from heedtracker, the BBC are just plain creepy.

  66. Democracy Reborn says:

    Simples…:-

    Table 1 : Scotland pays its way (& more) to the UK Exchequer (is anyone by now still surprised as to why they are desperate to keep us?)

    Table 2 : On second thoughts, let’s show that the Jocks are subsidy junkies…

  67. muttley79 says:

    @Doug Daniel

    Either way, it’s one of the clearest examples yet of the BBC being nothing more than a unionist propaganda mouthpiece.

    I wonder how long Derek Bateman can keep on insisting that the BBC is not institutionally biased against Scottish independence?

  68. Haggis Hunter says:

    With Scotch whisky alone making up 25% of the UK exports, how do they come up with a Scottish figure of 7.1/% ?

  69. Andrew Coulson says:

    In both forms of the article, ‘GDP’ and ‘GVA’ seem to have been used interchangeably. As others have pointed out here, the two terms have different meanings. Perhaps the author does not know the difference. Also, the first mention of ‘GDP’ should have said ‘GDP per capita’ — unless nonsense is not to be avoided.

  70. ronnie anderson says:

    Dont be deluded People that Bbc are softening they’re stance, because they’re putting stories Online, Bbc know the numbers of people in Scotland with Internet connection,& it does,ent have the same circulation spread,as main stream news.

  71. ronnie anderson says:

    I have a connection , who is waiting on a Lung Transplant at the Freeman’s in Nov. I phoned NHSBT 01923 367600 to be told they have a letter in the Scotsman today

  72. Helena Brown says:

    Wouldn’t believe the BBC if they told me I was on fire and I could feel the flames.

  73. Cyberniall says:

    I still don’t understand how Island or Country become more cramped ‘statistically’. The UK is not a country and the British isles aren’t moving anywhere?

    Surely they mean the rUK or does the BBC think Scotland, Wales and NI are just regions of England?

  74. Robert Peffers says:

    @Juteman says: 23 July, 2014 at 11:52 am

    “Is it true that Scottish products leaving the UK from an English port are classed as an English export?”

    Yes and what is worse is that firms, like Diagio, the biggest exporter of, “Scotch”, is head quartered in England so not only is the Scotch they export from England accounted as English Exports the VAT, Corporation Tax, Alcohol Duty and the tax and NHS deductions from much of their employees is paid from England and accounted as English revenue. Bear in mend too, that Diagio do not just do Scotch but are the biggest producers of the cheap hooch like vodka, gin and cider. Think also of UK wide firms like ASDA, Tesco and so on. They have English head offices and their tax gathered or due from their Scottish branches is counted as English revenue.

  75. Edward says:

    Haggis Hunter – Your right they do
    also they do the same for Scottish smoked Salmon that is air freighted out of London
    (I’m in the shipping industry, so I know 😀 )

  76. Lesley-Anne says:

    Robert Peffers says:

    Oh! Look! A Squirrel

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-tayside-central-28421696

    My full commiserations and condolences to the squirrel Robert. I can only hope that he gets awarded the golden acorn with crossed leaves awarded for his services above and beyond the call of duty. 😛

  77. Fergus Green says:

    O/T – Danny Alexander in conversation with David Torrance at Dundee University 5 million questions on 18 August. Tickets free:

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/local/dundee/danny-alexander-to-set-out-no-vote-case-at-dundee-university-s-five-million-questions-1.486347

  78. Kenneth McCargow says:

    This competence seem a sincerely considerate volume to potentially remove from a UK’s sum GVA (sic)

  79. Murray McCallum says:

    The BBC have no credibility left to lose in Scotland. Maybe they are thinking they might as well go for it?

  80. Cyberniall says:

    Letter to the Scotsman regarding Monday’s article on organ transplants and blood transfusions.

    http://www.scotsman.com/mobile/news/opinion/letters/brown-offensive-1-3483653

  81. desimond says:

    This is another item that has me thinking that the UK Government must be absolutely shitting bricks at the thought of anyone getting to see the true state of the books come the negotiations.

  82. themadmurph says:

    Oh how I will laugh when I can make the comparison between rUK and Greece!

  83. Baheid says:

    Multley 11:52.
    Yes

  84. David Wardrope says:

    At the end of the day, the BBC are either bending (or breaking) information to suit a unionist bias, or are once again chucking any old guff onto their news site without properly vetting and checking the content. Either way, they have a problem

  85. Luigi says:

    It’s all very well blaming a huge organisation like the BBC. A typical British institution, with all sorts of shady things done by shady characters, all deniable of course. After all, how far would you go in the BBC without covering your rear end? Possibly corporate culture is involved, but there are, without doubt, powerful individuals that could, and should, be striving to ensure that both sides get a fair hearing. This is obviously not happening, and the conclusion must be that certain people are not doing their jobs properly.

    Who are the main players? Who is pulling the strings?

    Time to name and shame.

  86. Ken500 says:

    Just rubbish

    Scotland was exporting and importing £40Billion (pre recession?) The rest of the UK has a massive balance of payment deficit. Scotland exports £12Billion? Oil & Gas and £4Billion Whisky = £16Billion.

  87. muttley79 says:

    @Cyberniall

    Surely they mean the rUK or does the BBC think Scotland, Wales and NI are just regions of England?

    Essentially, the BBC do think of Scotland, Wales, NI as regions of England. They cannot admit it, but the implication is always present. It is the same with unionist politicians. When they refer to the ‘country’ they mean the British state.

  88. Iain (orri) McCord says:

    Not only could they be including exports via England as not being Scottish, the other fiddle will be in allocating revenue from UK wide organisations such as supermarkets who have HQs in a particular country of the UK to that country rather than where it’s generated.

    As to life expectancy, it’s a sad fact that it’s lower in Scotland than the UK average as was the point in recent discussions about pensions. Nothing magical about it at all just a statistical artifact.

  89. Lorna says:

    I’ve tweeted the image to BBCNews and BBCBreaking saying “@BBCNews @BBCBreaking Why did this article change over night from the left one to the right? #WestminstersPuppets”

  90. IcySpark says:

    Here are the real figures people for 2012. Thanks to Ivan McKee. Share this video to everyone.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W8cKHcZn60

  91. IcySpark says:

    Scotland’s GDP per capita was in fact 118% that of the rUK in 2012.

  92. msean says:

    If I wasn’t allowed to open my blinds myself without phoning central command for permission,no one would take my economic forecasts seriously.

    Centralised government gone mad.

  93. NewportDee says:

    Why don’t you politely ask the BBC what happened overnight? I’m sure they will have a reasonable explanation. David Cameron is in Scotland for the Commonwealth Games opening – maybe he had a word with them?

  94. heedtracker says:

    Boris Johnson says a pound is far better spent in Croydon than in Strathclyde, so he gets a special mention from one more far right ukok oddball rambling on and on about AlicSamin getting booed everywhere he goes etc

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10983401/Alex-Salmond-shouldnt-bank-on-gold.html

    “– Sir Chris Hoy, the most successful cyclist in Olympic history, has made clear that he’d have come nowhere near the Olympic Park had it not been for England’s training facilities. Like Andy Murray (who held a Union flag behind him after his Olympics win) Sir Chris loathes the idea of his being dragged into nationalist politics. “I’m Scottish and British. I think you can be both – they are not mutually exclusive,” he said after the Olympics ended. This led a triumphant Boris Johnson to claim that the London Games “have done for Salmond… Vote Hoy”

    Its even odder as the only memory I have is Hoy wrapped in giant union jacks.

  95. Peter says:

    According to HMG London is a bigger producer of “Scotch” Whisky than Scotland as most of the profits are counted as London’s.

    Having to admit to the true state of the uk’s finances is just one of the reasons for the abject terror of Scotland despisers towards democratic freedom.

  96. Adele says:

    Bring on this Sunday (27th July) – BBC Bias Protest at 2pm outside BBC Studios, Pacific Quay.

    Don’t let then get away with all of the disgusting things they have to this point, got away with.

  97. Busy-Bee says:

    Ministry of Truth… “Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past” Orwell, 1984.
    Hmmm.. ring any bells?

  98. cearc says:

    Well the ReportNews piece is just hilarious.

    People proprietor in Scotland will be means to take partial in a vote, responding a “yes/no” question: “Should Scotland be an eccentric country?”

    YES, please, let’s be an eccentric country. Sounds good to me.

  99. North chiel says:

    Ref Scottish skier comment : Obviously the oil industry is
    Not using glycol or methanol to prevent hydrates, it’s whisky
    Thus the reason for the non inclusion of whisky exports in
    The figures

  100. Papadox says:

    When you look at HMG and their allies, BNP, EDL, BRITNATS, O/O, BT, MSM, BBC THE ESTABLISHMENT plus a few other strange oddball organisations which purport to support our pensioners and other vulnerable people in society.

    These BT types lie mislead and try to strike terror into the lives of these poor people not through belief and concern for the vulnerable but through the greed for money and power for their own benefit and no one else’s, they are just being used and will be sacrificed in the event of a yes vote, they will have served their purpose.

    They are being led up the garden path by the barber to be shorn and abandoned to their fate.
    That is my honest belief.

  101. Robert Peffers says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 23 July, 2014 at 12:45 pm:

    “My full commiserations and condolences to the squirrel Robert. I can only hope that he gets awarded the golden acorn with crossed leaves awarded for his services above and beyond the call of duty.”

    Indeed so, Lesley-Anne: It only occurred to me after I had posted the link that the total cost of that endless list of gifts by all sorts of business, organizations, councils and even charities to the richest family in the United Kingdom could be far better spent as contributions to food banks and homeless people’s support groups.

    Just what is it that drives these people? In the main the gifts will probably end up in some deed, dank, vault in the bowels of Buck House. I doubt if the wee laddie will ever see the cuddly toy.

  102. gerry parker says:

    They’re doing it because you can fool some of the people all of the time.
    They can also fool all of the people some of the time.
    But I’m afraid they’re about to learn that you cannot fool all of the people all of the time.

    Be Alert Readers, expose their trickery.

  103. Tam Jardine says:

    Feels like groundhog day. If we take the distortion of figures designed to play down the strength of the Scottish economy with the BBC’s focus on deprivation in Glasgow ahead of the games (and hell, they even rubbed their hands in glee at the Corrie missing his cue singing Flower of Scotland!) we have an organisation who is acting against Scotland.

    The cries of foul play are growing every day. I hope the foreign press get down to PQ on Sunday to listen and embarrass the BBC into action. The fact they are a mouthpiece for the ruling class is now dispute.

    All this must end.

  104. Kev says:

    Perhaps GCHQ are giving their new cyber toys a wee test drive for the weeks ahead, have printed out the article and will happily slide it thru BBC’s door at PQ on Sunday.

  105. ronnie anderson says:

    gerry Parker is over in Dunoon this week,he is looking for a lift from anyone intending to attend BBC Demonstration anyone from Dunoon or Greenock can help post up.

  106. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fergus Green says: 23 July, 2014 at 12:45 pm:

    “O/T – Danny Alexander in conversation with David Torrance at Dundee University 5 million questions on 18 August. Tickets free:“.

    Dear heavens, It’ll be like the blind, dumb & deaf, (Torrance), leading the blind, dumb, deaf, and daft owner of a doddgy calculator, (D. Alexander), across a rock strewn mountain pass on a foggy, dark, moonless, snowy Winter’s night.(Many a slip twixt cup and lip, springs to mind).

  107. heedtracker says:

    NewportDee says:
    23 July, 2014 at 1:11 pm
    Why don’t you politely ask the BBC what happened overnight? I’m sure they will have a reasonable explanation.

    They were formally asked by a licence fee payer why they are so biased against Scottish democracy a while back and responded that as they were not in yet the 3 month referendum campaign period, they were not obliged to be impartial so there. Now we are, it’s all changed hasn’t it. Big changes coming for Pacifc Quay or none at all but at least we have vote to keep the BBC or not, which is also a unique thing for teamGB.

    No wonder their propaganda’ all over the shop?

  108. G H Graham says:

    This is a reflection of the feedback on the street; YES is probably ahead of NO now. The polls are all biased to one degree or another & cannot be trusted.

    Look at the venom with which London Establishment types have warned Salmond not to use the Commonwealth Games as a political lever.

    It is precisely the uplifting effect in Glasgow that they now wish to diminish also fully aware that the argument is being won door by door.

    The full might of the British establishment & its propaganda channels (BBC/Sky/Print media) may well have secured the already staunch & extremist Britnat support it would have had anyway but it has singularly failed to persuade anyone else to swing from a YES to a NO. If there is someone, we haven’t heard a peep.

    We also see the full weight of the London BBC worthies taking over the entire broadcast media in Glasgow which in itself is a disgraceful reflection of our own lack of capacity to broadcast events likes this on our own turf.

    The tide has turned. You know it. They know it.

  109. crazycat says:

    I also like the idea of Scotland as an eccentric country.

    Unfortunately, my attempts to find out what language that might have been (mis)translated from, by taking pairs of words and testing them in an on-line translator to see if any of the available languages returned the same answer for both words, drew a blank. It was amusing to discover how few languages have a word for eccentric, though (at least, in the dictionaries the translator has access to).

  110. bookie from hell says:

    guardian

    If Gordon Brown had had his way, it would now be called the Bank of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. In his new book, My Scotland, Our Britain, Brown says he tried to change the Bank’s name in1997

  111. muttley79 says:

    The SG should not politicise the Commonwealth Games. Let the Brit nats in the MSM, the UK government and other unionists do that. I see Cameron is coming up to Scotland today, but he will never debate with Salmond. Great democratic state, the British one eh? Where their political leader is afraid to debate on TV with the FM of Scotland. Better to be out canvassing, delivering leaflets, contributing to fund raisers etc, than politicise a sporting event.

  112. IcySpark says:

    One of the earlier version of this BBC story is now available on the web archive:

    http://web.archive.org/web/20140722135954/http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-28192293

  113. heedtracker says:

    @ bookie from hell, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Members_of_the_House_of_Lords check out where future Lord Brown is heading for. This is what BBC fights so hard to protect. Watched a Lord at Celtic Park on BBC TV Scotlandshire news choking back his tears at just how far a wee Glasgow boy has come in teamGB but don’t know what his role in Games are, as I too started tearing up at his Lordships emotional interview with the liggers.

  114. donald says:

    The BBC’s using GVA instead of GDP.

    As I understand it, GVA doesn’t include taxes. For example, on oil.

    Really, really bias selection of data.

  115. Vavilov says:

    BBC Exec. “We need a nice graphic showing decrease in GDP if the Jocks get independence.”

    Lackey “It’s up on site, take a look.”

    BBC Exec. “Not us you fool, them.”

    Lackey “I’ll get my coat.”

  116. bookie from hell says:

    Cameron speech commemonwealth live

    http://www.sdi.co.uk/knowledge-hub/articles/insight/business-conference-live

    running late should be on soon

  117. heedtracker says:

    Graun says 12.45pm: Mark Carney, governor of the Bank of England, speaks at the Commonweath Games Business Conference in Glasgow.

    Which is another odd thing to do on Glasgow games opening day but without checking, Governor of BoE says stick yer independence up yer arse, or something like that.

  118. Garve says:

    According to the graph on the current page Wales’ exports are 5.2% of UK and Scotland’s exports are 7.1%.

    So Wales exports 73% of the amount Scotland does, despite having only 60% of Scotland’s population, 25% of Scotland’s land mass and significantly less than that in terms of sea area.

    And no oil.

    Have I missed a huge boom in Welsh whisky exports?

  119. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Muttley 79; Cameron is, in fact, not coming up to Scotland. He’s been remarkably quietly up in Shetland. One wee report on the news last night, one wee interview on state broadcaster radio this morning, and no mention of it on the state broadcaster website except as a wee aside on a announcement about energy production and domestic costs in the north of Scotland.

    Yes Shetland, on the other hand, got something the BBC never bothered with. Pictures of him arriving at Sumburgh Airport, in spite of the Number 10 press office denying that he was going to Shetland at all. Arrived by private plane, presumably loaded with extra fuel to make sure it had enough range with him and Alistair ‘Chubba’ Carmichael on board. Meant to have been up to Sullom Voe as well, but I’ve not seen any confirmation of that yet.

  120. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Technically he’s coming down to Scotland….

  121. heedtracker says:

    Here he is! Bank Of England economy is doing great again so vote no says the man with the plan. Have to say for a banker, Mark Carney is fabulously optimistic but here’s vote NO BBC headline for this evening, UKOK booming. So why even think of changing anything.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/818a9e68-1254-11e4-93a5-00144feabdc0.html#axzz38IaS38is

  122. heedtracker says:

    I’m not the governor of the Bank of England but since losing the last UKOK election, Con/Dems cut tax for the rich or themselves, slashed benefits with lots of the most vulnerable people now IDS ATOS bed room tax dead, UKOK national debt still rising into mid £1.5 trillions, UKOK deficit way above what Osborne said it would be, stuff like Student Loans building £12 billion public finance black hole, NHS privatising, RBS never going to repay their bail out but still trousering multi million bonuses, more war brewing in Ukraine, Russia, Iraq, giant non aircraft carrying carrier white elephants not launched in the Forth and

    I give up.

    Bank of England governor pay? Seven hundred and fifty grand a year, plus expenses.

  123. muttley79 says:

    Cameron is up in Scotland. He is in Glasgow.

  124. Andy Fields says:

    @Mosstrooper “It would appear that the LOSS of almost 17 billion of UK GDP would lead to an increase in said GDP.

    Is it me?”

    It’s GDP per capita so it’s perfectly possible to remove GDP in aggregate terms but have GDP per capita increase (because you’re also removing people). Whether it’s correct or not is a different issue of course.

  125. bookie from hell says:

    The Economist

    Says Scottish Parliament has never used its powers to vary tax

    I thought parliament didn’t have powers to vary tax?

    https://subscriptions.economist.com/uk/diguaacc0714artpg/

  126. heedtracker says:

    Cameron in Shetland was low key but Osborne got incredible Press & Journal front page splash today, probably biggest vote No belter from P&j so far. Osborne promises game changer oil taxes with very handsome and brave Osborne on crane over a platform. Pushed all boats out for Gideon but Cameron very little, he just cuddles a little child in Shetland somewhere. Awe. P&J polling day issue is going to be just as eye wateringly ridiculous. Maybe they really are starting to worry.

  127. Macsenex says:

    If you are going to the opening of the Commie Games make sure you know the words of the Lichtenstein National Anthem.

    We dont want any booing!

  128. Nana Smith says:

    Highland protest planned over BBC ‘bias’ on independence referendum
    2pm outside the BBC newsroom at Culduthel Road in Inverness on Sunday 27th July.

    Hoping lots of folk turn out.

  129. donald anderson says:

    A Yankee friend told me that they need us, but we don’t need them.

  130. Haggis Hunter says:

    I wonder if the Yes campaign are going to present the true value of Scottish exports? Scotch whisky exports rake in over £250 per second, all going to the Brit state, and none directly to Scotland. No much wonder they have their own people in charge of the various ‘Scottish’associations.

  131. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

    “Economic activity which cannot be assigned to any specific region” means North Sea oil & gas.

    They have calculated this on Scotland having NO oil and Scotland leaving (& Scotlands Oil with it) having no impact on UK finances.

    Blatant. Not funny and very very wrong.

  132. BrianW says:

    I think we should get a CrowdFunding thing going to buy the BBC a new Fiddle.. The one they’ve got the noo seems to be playing the same auld guff day in day out..

    But some people are happy to listen to the same pi$h every day.

    Thankfully we have the Rev to point out the numerous BUM notes the BBC are happy to print so we can listen to a better tune.

  133. Chitterinlicht says:

    What I am not clear on when we are independent will whiskey companies have to pay their various taxes in Scotland if registered in England? Thinking Amazon et al tax avoidance. I would have assumed export tax would have to be paid here. Corporation not so sure?

  134. Ron Burgundy says:

    They are finished in Scotland and they know it. Should there be a NO vote I can easily imagine a mass campaign of non payment of their licence fee being organised.

    OK hardly a satisfactory displacement activity for the referendum campaign, but Pacific Quay will not be forgiven for their role in securing a NO for their London masters.

    They little realise the whirlwind that is to come, laws after all only work with the consent of the governed, the licence fee is one law I can see thousands and thousands challenging post September.

  135. Scott Minto (Aka Sneekyboy) says:

    @Bookie from Hell

    “I thought parliament didn’t have powers to vary tax”

    It doesnt. They lapsed due to being very pointless.

    We covered it here:-

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/weekend-bridging-the-funding-gap/

  136. alastair seago says:

    Don’t believe any of their figures. On the original page they had Scotland’s MP’s as 39 and the rUK as an island.

  137. desimond says:

    In a new twist on the Wheres Wally game, BBC invite you to play

    Wheres Wallace the Saltire – Try this Commonwealth Games article first….see if you can find a Saltire in amongst the Olympics and Union Flags!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28426866

  138. MochaChoca says:

    From ONS

    “The UK workplace nominal Gross Value Added (GVA) per head1 for 2012 was £21,295 (excluding economic activity which cannot be assigned to any specific region, such as North Sea oil and gas extraction). By country GVA per head was highest for England (£21,937), followed by Scotland (£20,013)”

    http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/guide-method/compendiums/compendium-of-uk-statistics/economy/index.html

    The only logic behind removing North Sea production is to the reverse the difference between Scotland and England.

    It’s a double whammy in fact, ignore the productivity of Scots oil workers, but leave them within the population figure by which the whole GVA is divided to calculate GVA per head.

    It effectively paints 200,000 of our most productive workers as economically inactive.

  139. Flooplepoop says:

    Maybe we should point the BBC researchers to the truth?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zaT1s_IAWA&feature=youtu.be

  140. Andy-B says:

    Maybe they couldn’t make their minds up whether losing Scotland was a good or bad thing.

    Meanwhile Ed Miliband and Douglas Alexander pled with president Obama,over Scottish independence,Obama says “If its not broke don’t fix it.”

    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-independence-barack-obama-warns-3897601

    Also David Cameron has sent a fisheries minister to debate rural affairs, the meeting is in Dingwall tonight, Alex Salmond says, Cameron won’t debate me he says he isn’t involved in the Better Together matters yet he’s sending a fisheries minister to Dingwall. It all reeks of unionist hypocrisy.

    http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/cameron-accused-over-rural-debate-172638n.24823338

  141. heedtracker says:

    @ desimond, BBC airbrushing Scotland flags from Glasgow Games technically makes sense as the London 2012 Olympic Games were in the UK’s capital city and Glasgow is still only a city in the UK. Although if this was an actual happy union, BBC propaganda would have the self confidence to have at least one Saltire, which clearly they don’t.

    “Give them nothing from now until 19 the Sept” seems to be BBC/media policy but imagine what they’ll do if they lose!

  142. hetty says:

    O/T
    just searched for info on the games…here is an interesting site;

    http://www.weareengland.org

  143. heedtracker says:

    http://www.glasgow2014.com Where’s the Scotland flag? no union jacks either, only on BetterTogetherBBC.

  144. muttley79 says:

    @sneekyboy

    They have calculated this on Scotland having NO oil and Scotland leaving (& Scotlands Oil with it) having no impact on UK finances.

    Blatant. Not funny and very very wrong.

    Yet they seem happy to do it.

  145. heedtracker says:

    Once again, where’s the Scotland flag http://www.goscotland.org

    Bit of a shocker compared to http://www.weareengland.org

    Funny that

  146. desimond says:

    @heedtracker

    How can a non country have a capital?

  147. heedtracker says:

    Wales has only a little one http://www.teamwales.co.uk

    It’s just http://www.weareengland.org that has England flags plastered all over it. Again funny that

  148. Craig P says:

    I have always found the ignoring of oil figures strange. Does the UK or England produce figures for the economy with the City of London left out? It is no different an approach.

  149. desimond says:

    heedtracker says:
    23 July, 2014 at 4:21 pmOnce again, where’s the Scotland flag http://www.goscotland.org

    The uniforms at least does have a scotland style badge and bowlers polo shirt is a peach!

    I know, I know…but im clutching at whatever I can get!!

  150. heedtracker says:

    @heedtracker

    How can a non country have a capital? I’m trying to work out BBC vote no propaganda with union jacks all over its Glasgow games coverage and why teamEngland has it’s website covered in England flags. Even Northern Ireland haven’t done that, it’s a bit green though. OO won’t like that.

    http://www.nicgc.org

  151. heedtracker says:

    @ desimond, it’s interesting how we are all meant to evil and cruel nationalists for voting Yes but BetterTogetherBBC liggers wrap themselves and anything they can get hold of with giant shiny union jacks, while all the rest of teamGB don’t.

    You’d think they were worried about some UKOK changes coming their way or something.

  152. muttley79 says:

    So there we have it from the BBC, they genuinely do not think Scotland should have control over around 90 per cent of the oil. This despite it being in our territorial waters. Who trusts them when they come out with such blatant lies?

  153. desimond says:

    @heedtracker

    They’ll like it even less when golden boy Rory McIlroy fecks off and plays for The Republic of Ireland in the Olympics 2016

  154. heedtracker says:

    @ desimond, true but it is interesting watching UK state propagandists go about their daily anti Scots democracy business in Pacific Quay.

  155. Andy-B says:

    Glasgow Commonwealth Committee, forced Celtic Park to remove the Irish Flag,from its flag pole ahead of the Queen opening the games, some people not amused.

    https://twitter.com/search?q=%23glasgow2014

  156. dennis mclaughlin says:

    When our local farmers’ dogs/cats had too many puppies they’d put them in a sack and toss them in the sea.

    BBC management are treating the Scottish population in the same manner….where’s the national outcry ?.

  157. David Wardrope says:

    Think it will be possible to get into a venue with a Yes Saltire, claiming that you are celebrating Scotland and your favourite prog rock band?

  158. Colin says:

    Sorry if someone has pointed this out already but Scotland’s international exports should be around £29 billion.

  159. heedtracker says:

    @ desimond says: Flag! Indeed but report says

    “Both sides of the independence debate have agreed not to use Glasgow 2014 for political gain anyway.” with a sad Union Jack face painted child? So why is BetterTogether BBC wrapping their Games stuff in union jacks then? Because the BBC is neutral. lol, seriously crap outfit.

  160. desimond says:

    @heedtracker

    Im pretty sure that if David Cameron is given an opportunity to speak tonight ( it may just be Liz and Eck) then the crowd will soon make it a political event and you can bet the BBC will have someone ready to mute the crowds negative feedback.

  161. dennis mclaughlin says:

    Haggis Hunter @ 3.22pm
    C’mon now the ever so polite folks @ YES HQ wouldn’t get their lilly white’s durty arguing with the revered and mighty BBC now…..

  162. IcySpark says:

    @David Wardrope

    LMAO. Brilliant 🙂

  163. Andy-B says:

    O/T.

    UKIP look set to make their parliamentary break through, it will be all downhill for Westminster, and the rest of the UK, after that.

    http://www.kentonline.co.uk/thanet/news/poll-tips-ukip-to-make-historic-general-election-breakthrough-in-thanet-south-20661/

  164. muttley79 says:

    Yet another former SLAB elected representative supports a Yes vote:

    http://www.yesscotland.net/news/edinburghs-first-female-lord-provost-declares-yes

  165. goldenayr says:

    And The Torygraph is the home of lies.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scottish-independence/10986214/Alex-Salmond-Glasgow-will-vote-for-independence-and-become-Freedom-City.html

    BTW,posted a link to this beeb propaganda a couple of days ago.

  166. muttley79 says:

    It shows what a great asset to the Yes campaign Dennis Canavan is. No surprise really, but was a great contribution he is making.

  167. hoddles says:

    So they have removed NS oil from the figures. So if Scotland or rUK isn’t getting the revenue, who is?

  168. M4rkyboy says:

    The exports for Scotland seemed hilariously low.
    Are they attributing Scottish produce through English ports as English?

  169. lumilumi says:

    @ heedtracker 4.21pm

    I think the Go Scotland website (http://www.goscotland.org/home.aspx )was far more stylish.

    It starts with a slideshow of great athlete portraits, lots of small and even bigger saltires in the uniforms, iconic Scottish places old and new. From castles and lochs (and hieland coos!) to Forth Rail Bridge, the Falkirk Wheel, windfarms and the Kelpies. I loved the judoka Euan Burton, with the Wallace monument in the background, looking ready to take on ANYBODY! 😀 Oh, and I wouldn’t mess with lawn bowler Alex Marshall, either! 😀

    But the absolute best is this one:
    http://www.goscotland.org/media/73796/GoScotland-Phase3-Poster-weightlifting.jpg
    Micky Yule, para-sport powerlifter (taken at the BAE Govan shipyard). The chains, the muscles, the tattoos, the cranes, the prosthetic legs. An amazing picture.

    No need for unsubtle flag-waving, just the places and the people. Maybe many non-Scots will miss many of the place and cultural references but all the pictures are of such a high quality as photographs.

  170. desimond says:

    @Andy-B

    By 2015, hopefully hearing about a UKIP vote win will be like hearing you’ve lost a pound coin 9 months after you got 6 numbers up in the Lottery.

  171. heedtracker says:

    @ lumilumi, thanks for the Micky Yule link, incredible. All these web sites have me hooked now but coming back like this after getting so badly wounded in Afghanistan is an unbelievable achievement in itself.

  172. caz-m says:

    @desimond 4.40pm
    “And when the BBC asked the organisers of Glasgow 2014 if spectators could wave a standard Union Flag, they said they could”.

    Why would anyone want to wave the Union Jack at the Commonwealth Game?

    You would surely want to wave your own national flag.

    So, Union Jacks are OK and “YES” Saltires are bad.

    Straight out the BBC rule book.

    UK good, Scotland bad.

  173. stonefaction says:

    From the BBC article
    “And when the BBC asked the organisers of Glasgow 2014 if spectators could wave a standard Union Flag, they said they could. Although they added that the flag size policy would be applied.

    You are not allowed, however, to bring the flag of a country not competing in the Games. So no USA flags, for example.”

    Something smells a bit funny to me….The United Kingdom is not competing in the games, so by the rules (as reported by the BBC) the Union Flag should not be allowed in the stadium as it is not the flag of “a country” competing in the Games. Anyone waving a Union Flag at the Games is surely most likely to be doing it for political reasons (or BBC/BT/NT gave it free to kids to wave).

  174. Early Ball says:

    On the subject of saltires the BBC website in England have no problem with an English flag. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/28424772

    I haven’t noticed the equivalent in Scotland. Weird.

  175. heedtracker says:

    Only in Scotland. BBC have full power to take down Saltires or always show pics of them under dark foreboding grey leaden skies

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/aberdeenshire-council-u-turn-on-saltire-ban-1-3400039

  176. caz-m says:

    @stonefaction 5.44pm
    “Anyone waving a Union Flag at the Games is surely most likely to be doing it for political reasons”.

    Exactly the point I was trying to make.

    Here is the rule on politicising the games,

    “Both sides of the independence debate have agreed not to use Glasgow 2014 for political gain anyway”.

    I would say that waving a Union Jack at the Commonwealth games is done for no other reason other than political point scoring on behalf of Better Together.

    The Union Jack must be banned, the same as “YES” Saltires are banned.

  177. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 23 July, 2014 at 4:55 pm

    “So why is BetterTogether BBC wrapping their Games stuff in union jacks then?”

    Besides the fact that it is NOT a Union Jack, (A Jack is the small version of a flag flown on the Jack Staff on a ship’s bows). The Flag in question is the Union Flag. Anyway, technically, the Union Flag is as much the flag of Scotland and Northern Ireland as it is that of England.

    Being, however, part of England Wales does not feature on the union flag. It is thus not only incorrect but a direct insult to the rest of the United Kingdom for England to use the union flag as if it were the flag of England.

    Seems the English team may be somewhat ashamed to be seen with their own, “Cross of St George”, national flag and prefer instead to hide beneathe the banner shared with the rest of the United Kingdom.

  178. caz-m says:

    Ronnie Anderson

    Just back from Pacific Quay Ronnie, It’s not looking good for Sunday.

    Calling Ronnie Anderson.

  179. Dodgardiner says:

    The ‘incredibly strange page’ is brilliant – Johan Lamont taught the writer English perchance?

    My favourite is the Referendum bit at the bottom ‘Should Scotland be an eccentric country?’….gets my vote.

    Also agree the ratio of Welsh exports v Scottish exports doesn’t stack up.

  180. stonefaction says:

    Caz-m, we were both posting pretty much the same thing at pretty much the same time.

    A wee bit off-topic but I got my YES Saltire tonight on the way home from the Dundee Yes Hub in St Andrews Street and it is now covering one half of my living room window. Nice wee blether to a couple of the folks there as well.

    Has there been any confirmation of the YES Saltire ban at T in the Park rumours?

  181. lumilumi says:

    stonefaction @ 5.44pm, and others

    You are not allowed, however, to bring the flag of a country not competing in the Games. So no USA flags, for example.

    This.
    The UJ is the flag of the UK but the UK is not competing in the Commonwealth Games. There is no “Team GB” (except at PQ).

    For the Commonwealth Games, the “home nations” compete in their own teams. So Saltires, Red Dragons, St George crosses and… uhm… what’s the NI flag (sorry for being so ill-informed)?

    Anyway, good luck, Glasgow, and the rest of Scotland for staging a great games, and most of all: Good luck to all the athletes, Scottish or otherwise! May the best athlete win and let’s keep politics out of it (I’m looking at you, BTUKOKNOBORDERSNOTHANKS people!)

  182. lumilumi says:

    On topic:
    I saw the BBC figures yesterday and was pleasantly surprised because they seemed to show that Scotland isn’t a subsidy junkie, after all. (I know Scotland isn’t, but for the BBC to spell it out is a break-through.)

    I jubilated too early, it’s back to normal service today… Sigh.

    The one thing this referendum malarkey has exposed is the dire state of all the MSM in Scotland, particularly the “trusted” and “impartial” BBC.

    Things will never be the same again, not even after a NO vote. The MSM/BBC have shot themselves in the foot big time.

    Tick tock…

  183. Bob Sinclair says:

    David F***ing Cameron talking about the CW Games being a business opportunity for the UK. What was that about keeping politic out of it again David?

  184. liz g says:

    @ lumilumi 6.24pmt

    I think the NI flag would be The Cross Of St Patrick
    which is the thin red cross shown on the Union flag with a white background

  185. Robert Louis says:

    Robert Peffers,

    Usage of the term ‘union jack’ when meaning the union flag, has been for most of my very long life, a standard turn of phrase in the UK, Scotland and even on the BBC. Whilst you are techincally correct, It isn’t important. If you think about it, it really doesn’t make any difference whatsoever. It’s only in recent years that some have changed their usage of the term.

    In addition whilst it may be argued the Union jack technically also belongs to Scotland, I can assure you I will never regard it as my flag. The English can stupidly do whatever they like with it. They can even fly it upside down (as they invariably and quite unintentionally do) on 19th Sept. when the YES vote is announced.

    One thing I look forward to with independence is getting that bl*****g union jack down off Edinburgh castle – the presence of which I regard as a daily insult to the people of Scotland. It says ‘we own you’. Makes me angry every time I see it – that and the largest union jack you ever did see on the Mound offices of the commercial enterprise that jokingly terms itself nowadays the Bank of ‘Scotland’. To add to the insult, they have it flying above some very small Saltires.

  186. Les Wilson says:

    When you think of the games, Westminster raised no money to help out, yet Cameron, Carney, et al are up here having Business meetings.

    This must be their intention that if there is any business going they are the ones who should get it. There is no depth to which they will fall. Sleaze balls.

  187. Dr Ew says:

    Yeh, I read the original yesterday and was quite interested in how the figures were presented. This morning, in response to an undecided Facebook friend who only believes something is true if the BBC say so, I copied the link and suggested she look at it. She came back with the equivalent of a ‘so what’ shrug. I didn’t have time to pursue the point but this might explain why.

    No wonder Orwell based 1984’s Ministry of Truth on his experiences at wartime BBC.

  188. Robert Louis says:

    Les Wilson,

    It is remarkable the number oif people who do not know that not one penny from Westminster paid for the commonwealth games, yet Scottish taxpayers have paid their share for the London games.

    I think these games will be great for Glasgow and for Scotland. We did this by ourselves. Made in Scotland.

    As for Cameron, up in Scotland yet again, yet too feart to debate independence with Scotland’s First Minister. Cameron is yellow through and through. No courage of his convicitons or what he says he believes in.

  189. Robert Peffers says:

    @hoddles says: 23 July, 2014 at 5:18 pm:

    “So they have removed NS oil from the figures. So if Scotland or rUK isn’t getting the revenue, who is?”

    It’s yon Alicsammiin whit haes it aw! Ah hate you Alicsammin. He disna need aw yon ile an gas money. He disna even gie you wee Nicolas Surgeon ony. Mibbie he spends it aw oan yon Tunnocks Caramel wavers or Snowba’s an Irn Bru an stuff.

    If you didn’t laugh at this utter twaddle from Bitter Together you would have to cry in frustration.

  190. bookie from hell says:

    do journalists get a pound from BT every time they compare AS to hitler

    http://blogs.channel4.com/michael-crick-on-politics/salmonds-scottish-sporting-surge/4244

  191. lumilumi says:

    Nana Smith @ 5.22pm

    Re: “Borders Council supporting England in the Commonwealth Games”. They also support Tonga.

    It’s all a part of a Sport Scotland initiative to get each and every Scottish council area to adopt 1-2 teams besides Scotland to support and cheer.

    I mean, there cannot be that many Nauruans in Glasgow so the good people of Argyll or wherever will also cheer for them. North Ayrshire twinned with Tuvalu, that kind of thing. I think it’s a lovely idea but I thought it didn’t apply to the “home nations”.

    I wonder who assigned England to Borders people… 😀

    Completely off on a tangent, I love the name of that tiny island nation, Nauru. It’s Finnish for “laughter”.

    Just listening to BBC Scotland radio coverage, some BBC commentators have already rubbished the opening ceremony and the games… facepalm.

    And foaming at the mouth at how the games shouldn’t be politicised… and then going on to do just that. double facepalm.

  192. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Look … a $quirrel ..

    O/T – On a positive note, nice to see another grass-roots hand-crafted ‘Make Alba Shine’ video appear: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAgOeuYNwyo (good response to the Tony Robinson etc. not-so-cunning plan).

    The original ‘Make Alba Shine’ by Gilly is here : http://www.makealbashine.com/ with link to free down load of the song (to be used by the YES campaign in any way that promotes a YES vote). There is some press coverage coming up.

  193. Harry McAye says:

    Didn’t QI not nail the Union Jack/Union Flag mystery? I’m sure they said it is ok to call it the Union Jack sans ship.

  194. ronnie anderson says:

    And hot on the News wire from Bbc Rod Stewart Luvs Scotland,but prefers to stay in La La Land,on the other hand Susan Boyle aye a want us tae stay thegether.

  195. Paula Rose says:

    @ Harry Mcaye – now that we have a huge aircraft carrier we will need a big flag.

  196. galamcennalath says:

    We should show a bit of sympathy. Somewhere in the BBC is the person who made an honest job of the first version. No agenda, just presented the facts. A bit like a real reporter.

    THEN, the propaganda division spotted the mistake! Honesty, that’s not allowed at the BBC! Lies, deceit and manipulation is what they do.

    So we got the second version.

    But, what about that poor wee honest soul telling the truth!? This could be the end of their career.

  197. Graeme Doig says:

    Robert Louis

    Share your feelings. Unfortunately resigned myself to the fact that even after a yes vote there will be no law against the union flag so am sure some will still feel the need to fly it.
    However it will no longer signify englands power over us. 🙂

  198. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    Called in to Pacific Quay there. Not looking good for Sunday.

  199. Robert Peffers says:

    @liz g says: 23 July, 2014 at 6:37 pm
    @ lumilumi 6.24pmt

    Re : The Northern Ireland Flag:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Northern_Ireland

  200. Boorach says:

    @ Nana Smith

    Would the law proposed in that petiton apply to Scotland?

    I don’t think it would and, as much as I would support it if it did, I believe the SNP have the right of it when they abstain on matters which don’t directly affect Scotland.

    If anything we should be pressing our own Government to introduce similar legislation. It’s possible that the ‘Responsible Adult’ (hope that’s it’s correct title) legislation goes a long way towards just the same outcome.

  201. ronnie anderson says:

    @ caz-m, waiting on updates from Jordi & Moira .

  202. DaveDee says:

    Don’t know of I’m being over sensitive but watching The One Show on BBC 1 and Celtic Park is in the background with massive signage stating ‘The Time is Now’ every letter is white and is on a red background except the last letter w which is on a yellow background which make it difficult to see so when it shown you can clearly see ‘The Time is No’ Possibly a good reason for it but it was annoying me so I am just venting.

  203. Minty says:

    One Show dim hosts tried to needle Salmond about the use of the words ‘together’ ‘union’ etc in the Opening Ceremony. He pointed out that virtually every country in the CW has declared independence from UK. LOLz.

  204. lumilumi says:

    Sorry to go on O/T about Commonwealth Games stuff. 🙂

    The games are great for Glasgow’s and Scotland’s international profile… But sorry to burst the bubble.

    The world is not watching. Commonwealth countries might be watching but the rest of the world isn’t.

    The only coverage we’ll get in Finland is some quick highlights if some outstanding results are made in athletics. And something on Usain Bolt, if he’s picked for the Jamaican relay team.

    A good friend of mine (a Finn) put it this way – in all friendliness – “The Brits started the Commonwealth Games because they didn’t like the French and Germans and other foreigners hogging all the Olympic medals that should’ve been Eng… British.”

    That said, I think the CG are a good platform for younger athletes to gain international experience, and of course, a chance of “togetherness” for lots of countries that share some history. (I just wonder if the CW contries have quite the same view of “shared history” as the UK/English establishment..?)

  205. Croompenstein says:

    Aw FFS they have manufactured and are handing out wee saltire flags with the union fucking jack on the back GRRRRRRR two sided flags for the duplicitous unionists..

  206. westie7 says:

    OT one show presenter firing some trip ya up questions to Salmond. Also asked what would he feel like if he got a similar reception to what Sepp Blatter did when he takes his seat. BBC arseholes
    Also when Amy McDonald was being interviewed the crowd in the background had a union flag
    Looks like the tone has been set

  207. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    In front of the BBC where we usually have the rally is full of tents, a massive stage and portacabins.

    They also have a security fence that runs right across where the end of the car park is, so you have to go through a security point.

    I took this picture of it(below). The three guys in the yellow tops are the security guards. One way in, one way out.

    The fence is to the right of them, and there is no room to swing a cat in there, never mind hold a rally.

    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/mtw704.jpg[/

  208. scottish_skier says:

    The original ‘Make Alba Shine’ by Gilly is here:

    The little Scottish-French girl at 0:54 looks familiar. 😉

    She’s round seeing Dusk’s puppies next door after her lovely time in the Highlands with Granny and Grampa Calgacus MacAndrews.

  209. Croompenstein says:

    @Graeme – However it will no longer signify englands power over us

    The big difference Graeme will be that our Saltire will be flown above the union jack 🙂

  210. Paula Rose says:

    Keep talking to people face-to-face, Thepnr recommends one a day, being more health conscious – I recommend five-a-day, ours to win cherubs.

  211. lumilumi says:

    More O/T CG stuff.

    Radio Scotland doing some vox pop apparently among people making their way to the opening ceremony.

    Some Jamaicans went on and on about how Glasgow, Scotland is great. The weather is great, the architecture is great, Glasgow, Scotland is so pretty, the people here in Glasgow, Scotland, are great, so friendly, so fun, everything works so well here in Glasgow, Scotland, it’s great to be here in Glasgow, Scotland!

    I especially noticed how these Jamaicans kept saying “Glasgow, Scotland”. Hmmm…

    The BBC cut back to the studio where the punters ah-so-amusingly laughed about how they thought they’d never hear anybody complementing Glasgow’s weather or… well, basically anything about Glasgow, Scotland.

  212. Robert Peffers says:

    @ Robert Louis says: 23 July, 2014 at 6:41 pm

    “Usage of the term ‘union jack’ when meaning the union flag, has been for most of my very long life, a standard turn of phrase in the UK, Scotland and even on the BBC.”

    A lifetime in the MOD or anything maritime teaches the importance of flags and pennants. Whether or not you or I agree with it the Union flag is indeed as much that of Scotland as any other Union country. What’s more, no one will be more pleased than I to see the Union Flag taken down for the last time.

    Not being the flag of England it is a great pleasure for me to belittle any ignorant English person who fondly imagines it is the flag of England.

    Way back in the days, when there was less chance of getting beaten up over supporting your football team, I had a great laugh on my way to a Scotland vs England match at Hamden.

    Walking towards the ground I came upon a whole coachload of Englanders getting out of a coach. As it happened I had no Scottish colours showing. I have the ability to keep a dead pan and said to the Englanders, ( who were all decked out on red, white & blue with Union flags, Etc. “Hi Lads – what team are you supporting”?

    There was a moments silence then they all spoke at once. Anyway I said, “Whoa! There! How am I supposed to know you support England for I can’t see an English Flag or English colours anywhere? Same all talking at once. I told them they were showing every country in the Union’s colours and it began to dawn upon them I was having them on.

    It was you understand all good natured kidding. By this time we had arrived at the ground and had to go to the turnstile indicated by our tickets. You should have heard the resultant shouts and retorts when my parting shot was, “Now, Lads, going to tell me what Anthem you’re going to sing as England’s”?

  213. alexicon says:

    I’ve just watched a snippet of the one show where they were interviewing 2 past and present athletes, some of the crowd around them had small hand held flags with a Saltire on one side and a UJ on the other?
    Never seen that at the commonwealth games before.

    No doubt free hand outs by Glasgow council or who ever.

    Not politicising the games eh.

  214. Edward says:

    caz-m
    To be (brutally) honest I think it was ill judged to have planned a protest outside Pacific Quay while the Games are on.
    Why? Simple the BBC are basing all their games broadcasts from Pacific Quay, they are also the host broadcaster. So it is expected that they would set up a broadcast village at Pacific Quay.

    This included have a secured area

    So there are only two alternatives. One, when the Broadcast village is to cancel and reschedule for after the games are over. Or Two, relocate the protest to another location, but given there is unlikely to be much scope will be difficult

    Any thought that the BBC set up the tented village just to prevent the protest is a bit naïve

    I did say I would be honest

  215. Les Wilson says:

    One the one show, interview with Cameron, says politics are not for now. However people know his views which are that we are better together? No politics?

  216. ronnie anderson says:

    Soo diddy Dave’s no talking politics during the games but ask the question on the Referendum Fkin Weasel wie a capital WUBBLE U

  217. Thepnr says:

    @caz-m

    I think the protest is not directly outside the BBC offices now, no doubt because of the tents. From the latest article at Newsnet Scotland.

    “The peaceful protest against ‘BBC Bias’ will take place between 2pm and 3:30pm on Sunday 27th July next to the IMAX.”

    http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/9492-snp-calls-on-bbc-to-address-serious-concerns-after-report-questions-news-coverage

  218. caz-m says:

    Gerry

    Had a walk about inside the security fence and every inch is being used up for something. And there will probably be more punters there on a Sunday afternoon to join in the festivities.

    Honestly think we should bite the bullet and organise it for the first Sunday after the games have finished.

    Did you check out the picture Gerry.

    http://i59.tinypic.com/mtw704.jpg%5B/IMG%5D

  219. Minty says:

    Cameron bottled playing Salmond at golf, just like the offer of a debate…

  220. caz-m says:

    Thepnr

    Will check it out.

    TA!

  221. donald anderson says:

    We should go ahead and block the road if we have to.

  222. ronnie anderson says:

    @caz_m Moira & Jordi are in contact with the Polis re Sunday they will post up later on tonite as far as in aware they’re vidioing the area.

  223. Croompenstein says:

    Absolutely sickening with those wee shitty flags who is handing them out big Bliar F*ckin arseholes

  224. tartanarse says:

    Well what a surprise. UJ one side, saltire the other within the first few minutes of the games. Given out free by BT to kids i imagine. Can;t take them off the kids now can we.

    Disgrace.

  225. Castle Rock says:

    Just been watching BBC news reporting from Glasgow and they interviewed a family holding Saltires and Union Jacks.

    WTF has the Union Jack got to do with the Commonwealth Games???

    Do people really hate their country so much that they can’t hold their own flag on its own without making some pathetic cringing statement holding onto a flag that, in the eyes of the world, represents England.

    WTF is all that about.

  226. Juteman says:

    Opening credits of the BBC Commonwealth Games show.
    Celtic Park is draped in a huge ‘The time is No’ banner. WTF!
    A Scottish games has presenters from a different country? WTF again?

  227. Juteman says:

    I’m really pissed off! Why are the Brits presenting a Scottish occasion? Grrrrr!

  228. tartanarse says:

    Nice of Huw to tell us that we’re a bit wee and skint and that our ceremony won’t be as good as London’s but we’ll try really hard.

  229. Tattie-bogle says:

    just fuck ooooohhhhhh butchers aprons on the back of the wee triangle saltires just fucking nooooooooooooooo

  230. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    They maybe be talking about moving it round to the Science Centre, IMAX waterfront. Might be a bit more room round that side.

    Coz there is definitely NO room at the BBC Scotland buildings.

    Stay positive big man. We might still be protesting on Sunday. Where there’s a will…

  231. Croompenstein says:

    F*ckin unionists hope this backfires big time we can all see what you’re trying to do – Oh Salmond don’t dare politicise the games

  232. Tattie-bogle says:

    i posted earlier about the bbc common wealth barricade but this pish i am watching now might cost me a new tv fuck you bbc

  233. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Ronnie,

    Let me know if its still okay to drop the badges off tomorrow morning 🙂

  234. Juteman says:

    This is going to be another Olympics Britfest.
    BBC now switched off. Thank fuck I don’t pay for that shite!

  235. galamcennalath says:

    Simple question, what is the host country for the Games?

    I think everyone on here believes it’s Scotland.

    Perhaps, though, BritNat mentality assumes the UK is the host country. Half genuine mistake, half opportunistic with the referendum so close.

  236. ronnie anderson says:

    @thanks Gerry for posting Moria & Jordi Vid so things should be clearer now the Demo is going ahead.

  237. Castle Rock says:

    @Edward

    Sorry I disagree. After watching how the Games are being presented and rammed down our throats by the BBC as being ‘British’ its time to hit back hard.

    We are in a country called Scotland, the athletes are representing Scotland its got fuck all to do with being British.

    The world needs to know the shit we are having to put up with. I hope thousands turn up outside Pacific Quay on Sunday to demonstrate against them

    Enough is enough.

  238. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    My ‘Scotland Yet’ DVD has arrived.
    Looking forward to watching it at the weekend.
    http://scotlandyet.com/

  239. galamcennalath says:

    Rethink to above …. Quarter mistake, quarter malicious, quarter opportunism, quarter arrogance!

  240. Thepnr says:

    @Croompenstein

    Yeah, I understand your anger and frustration. Surely though all the committed Yes supporters will see right through the crappy attempt at brainwashing with subliminal messages.

    I think the huge banner with the message “The Time Is Now” with the ‘w’ being white on a yellow background so it appears to read “The Time Is No” is so pathetic that it’s not worth bothering about.

    Use it as proof as to how the Scots are being treated as fools by the British establishment when you talk to undecided. We have to play with the hand we’re dealt, try to make use of their not so subtle messages.

  241. alexicon says:

    @Thepnr.

    It’s not the committed YES supporters we need to win over.
    Who are we going to complain to? The very establishment that is running the show?

  242. donald anderson says:

    Last time I saw the wee paper Butcher’s Aprons on the back of our Saltire was at eh last Orange Walk in Glasgow. Before that they were handed out by the Bitters.

  243. Croompenstein says:

    @thepnr – Alex it is just an absolute disgrace hijacking Glasgow and Scotland’s games for their Brit Unionist jingoistic fest, all the proud Scot buts it is horrible stuff

  244. ronnie anderson says:

    @Kendomacaroonbar 8.16 yes ok Ken Im here all day waiting on the Midgie Badges being delivered.

  245. bookie from hell says:

    Alistair Darling tweet 22mins

    Good luck to all performers at the Glasgow Commonwealth Games ceremony. Strong focus on the Clyde, which has flourished within the Union.

  246. Flower of Scotland says:

    Hi there, Welcome to the Commonwealth games in Scotland, who are too stupid to have any Scottish presenters, except H Irvine! Who can only wave Saltire/Union Jack flags! Don’t anyone phone me tonight I’m having a sickness bout that won’t be cured till we get rid of this BBBC! I’m usually so placid but I’m raging!! They’ve stolen our games!!

  247. Thepnr says:

    @alexicon

    The committed Yes supporter will spot the Commonwealth Games are being hijacked by the BBBC, what more can we do now other than point out to the undecided how the establishment is using not so subtle propaganda to brainwash the “stupid Scots”.

    I’m angry too, don’t you think that a good few undecided won’t also be angry if we point out this diabolical liberty take.

  248. Tattie-bogle says:

    a maggie fest now

  249. Castle Rock says:

    Fuck me, Britain, Scotland had a new star…

    Absolute propaganda by the BBC, utter utter shite.

  250. donald anderson says:

    Sir Chris was there of course, not that he was on his bike representing Scotland, just yapping with other Brits and getting paid for it.

  251. Brian Powell says:

    BritScot, Billy Connelly, giving a tour of Glasgow.

  252. haud on the noo says:

    Too angry to comment…these wee flags really are the last straw….I HATE the BBC.

  253. lumilumi says:

    Oh dear…

    BBC Scotland full of English accents commenting on Glasgow’s, Scotland’s, Commonwealth Games, and totally “surprised” about the weather.

    (FYI, today we in Finland sweltered at +30C scorchio, set to continue for the next five days or so. Finnish summers are actually hotter and dryer than British summers, continental climate thing.)

    Based on the beginning, I don’t think I’ll stay up to listen/watch the BBC coverage.

    Not politicising the games my erse!

    The BBC is doing its best, spouting all UKOK jingoism, being patronising about “quaint” “Scottishisms” and (EEK! And WTF?!?) “Irishisms”.

    Sigh. Do these people not understand how patronising and insensitive they’re being?

    One of the commentators was in boarding school in Edinburgh but grew up in Sri Lanka so it’s all right…

    GAAAAHHG!
    The radio coverage is just beyond words. Some British Empire bubble. I bet they’d still like to call the CW games British Empire Games.

    I’m off.

  254. Brian Powell says:

    He thinks the ship building going is for the better!

  255. heedtracker says:

    Connolly says Glasgow shipyards going going gone’s for the better. Are you listening to the big yin high wage, full employment NORWAY.

  256. Minty says:

    Aye, who needs full employment and decent pay?

  257. Paula Rose says:

    Excuse me for asking but – Where’s the common wealth in these games?

  258. Wee Jonny says:

    The Big Yin
    “I never thought I’d see the docks disappear and the shipyards disappear the way they did. But they did. And I think it’s for the better”
    WTF!!!

  259. Grouse Beater says:

    UK government interference – you can bet on it.

    A brief phone call to the Director General, he then picks up a telephone to instruct the relevant staff member in charge of the site communicating the emendation as if the change in text is his own idea. Nothing written on a memo, of course …

  260. Thepnr says:

    I think the letters and emails of complaint to the BBC will be in the thousands at least if not tens of thousands. I’m off to write mine now about how the games have been hijacked for the sake of Unionist propaganda.

    No politicising of the games, meh erse!

  261. Harry McAye says:

    Playing devil’s advocate, it is the British Commonwealth but no excuse to have a two sided flag, have a UJ one by all means if folk want to wave one but at least give them a choice. Having Lineker there, who I actually like on MOTD, is just not right. Only Scot is Hazel, who is superb but would be doing it if it was in London. Why no Scottish presenter that we know? Although having said that, I’m not sure who. Jonathan Sutherland? I’ve maybe knackered my argument.

  262. gillie says:

    Saltire stuck on the back of the Union Jack?????????????

    What an EMBARRASSMENT.

    You stick these games where the sun don’t shine – Coatbridge.

  263. Flower of Scotland says:

    Actually after a good few drags at my Vape cig(gave it up but this is driving me to smoking again!) and a few wee gins I’m thinking….hmmm this might turn a few to YES!

  264. Castle Rock says:

    I’m proud to be Scottish say a whole gaggle of Unionists.

    Where’s my Union Jack, not waving that Saltire shite.

    BBC at its best.

  265. heedtracker says:

    If opening ceremony drags and Connolly goes home to LA, this is what Scottish shipping industry should be

    http://www.kvaerner.com/About-us/Films/

  266. Flower of Scotland says:

    BBC Scotland must be over the moon that this event has been hijacked by London! Obviously they’re not up to it! Too wee, too stupid!!

  267. Thepnr says:

    @Flower of Scotland

    I totally agree with you and just said exactly the same thing to my wife “this might just be a big mistake for the BBC, Scots will be raging”.

  268. Wee Jonny says:

    My wife hates any kind of animosity or confrontation of any sort and thinks everyone should just smile coz life’s too short. And she thinks I’m being paranoid aboot the CW coverage so far. But I’m sitting here ready to kick the wheelie bin in the puss watchin this pish.

  269. heedtracker says:

    Cllr Zadie Akhtar @cllrZadieAkhtar · 2m tweeting!
    Why are Irish people messaging me? This is a debate between the Scotch and us

    The Irish only want to rejoin this most wonderful union ever Zadie, be taxed and told what to do by Westminster, and have BBC Ireland take big dumps on Ireland day after day.

  270. Paula Rose says:

    No-one gave me the choice of the New Zealand flag on the back of my Saltire.

  271. Wee Jonny says:

    (The wheelie bin is not what I call my wife btw. I’m on aboot the actual wheelie bin).

  272. Derek M says:

    Come on guys we always knew they were going to hi-jack it ,so did wee eck i think he was counting on it,the more they try to unionize it the more they will fail,so dont worry or get angry let them do their Great British empire bit,a kind of last gasp by a bunch of desperado’s.
    As for the wee flags start spreading that if you get two of them and stick them together you have a double sided Saltire,so anybody going to the games take a pile of elastic bands with you to hand out.

  273. Kev says:

    Since when did Lineker present ahtletics?

  274. caz-m says:

    Ronnie

    keep me updated about PQ3.

  275. haud on the noo says:

    Oh FFS

  276. Thepnr says:

    Barrowman! is this a wind up FFS!

  277. Indy_Scot says:

    Did you see the union flag in Billy’s piece? WTF are they like.

  278. Kev says:

    Oh fuck I knew it, that fanny Barrowman…

  279. Tattie-bogle says:

    wtf barrowman

  280. heedtracker says:

    Awe now we know why Barrowman put the boot in for Bettertogether and here he is making a fool of Scotland. If the Krankies turn up its all over.

  281. Indy_Scot says:

    I’m not sure my blood pressure can take much more of this Barrowman pish.

  282. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Reading this thread while listening to Radio Scotland – don’t know whether to laugh or cry…

  283. bookie from hell says:

    is it Glastonbury or Glasgae?

  284. Peter says:

    The opening ceremony is cringe factor 10. Not an accident. Although if Barrowman had an accident I wouldn’t stop laughing.

  285. Ian Brotherhood says:

    What’s the betting that they’ve managed to lever in Susan Calman?

  286. Kev says:

    Eh Loch Lomond doesnae go like that mate, this is becoming a nightmare, get him afff!

  287. Indy_Scot says:

    Ahhhhhh, death by a thousand cuts would be less painful.

  288. Derek M says:

    re hmm the lacky bands might not work so take a wee tube of paper glue instead 😉

  289. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Oh FFS…Rev must be pining for his toothache to return.

  290. caz-m says:

    All the Celebs are “proud Scot buts..”

  291. ronnie anderson says:

    @Ian Brothewrhood are you ok for Sunday Demo

  292. Thepnr says:

    Hahahaha this is funny as fuck. If that’s the best they’ve got to throw at us Yes will win in a landslide.

    Just who exactly is this aimed at? Ten Thousand undecided have just had their mind made up for them by Barrowman the tube. Hahahaha.

  293. ronnie anderson says:

    @I,LL even try Ian Brotherhood

  294. heedtracker says:

    Make it stop fandabiedozie please.

  295. Indy_Scot says:

    Please tell me this is not going out to other countries.

  296. Kev says:

    Fall!! Please fall!

  297. ronnie anderson says:

    Sos Ian ah wiz distracted wie a Idiot in a Tartansuit ( no Anderson thank F ) whita load of pish as a opening ceromony Barra Fur that Eejit.

  298. caz-m says:

    Amy MacDonald, is she the first celeb on that supports
    Independence?

  299. Ian Brotherhood says:

    TBH mister, I’m not sure. The CG-related traffic shite is really putting me off. I could get the train right enough…

  300. heedtracker says:

    Go Amy. Real Scots talent at last!

  301. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Kev says:
    Fall!! Please fall!

    I don’t think they are dropping the tower blocks.

    Maybe they should have …

  302. Kev says:

    So we’re relying on Rod Stewart to rescue this?

  303. gerry parker says:

    @ gillie,
    The sun’s splitting the trees here.

    🙂

  304. bookie from hell says:

    Not watching?is it really that bad?

  305. X_Sticks says:

    Pure dead embarrassed.

    Keep calm.

    I think if the establishment do turn the CW into a britfest, breaking all the ‘non-politicisation’ rules from the outset if the flags thing is correct, it will backfire on them.

    It may bolster the flagging enthusiasm of No Better Together Thanks or whatever they are called now in the short term, but there will be more to come for Yes. Patience.

  306. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Jackie Bird pointing out to RS listeners that the opening sequence of the CG opening was ‘tongue in cheek’.

    Cheers Jackie. There was loads of us numpties thinking it was just patronising, embarrassing shite.

    Oh FFS, now Boyle’s doing Mull of Kintyre. A trap-door will open and Sir Paul’s heid will pop-up, eyes bulging…

  307. K1 says:

    Total 100% cringeworthy shite!

    Oh we get a wee flag show wi our flag in a minute after queenie…but just because it’s the tradition…oh ffs mull of kintyre now…not a good rendition…this just keeps gettin worse…

  308. Ian Brotherhood says:

    …now the Queen and the Chooky are coming on. Are they marching to that pipe music? Maybe big Phil has brought his baton…

  309. Peter says:

    When did glasgow become a friendly city? Highest murder rate in the uk just last year. Nobody better than blowing their own vomit encrusted trumpet. Ugly city, uglier people and a cancer draining the life out of Scotland.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-22276018

  310. K1 says:

    fucking red white and blue red arrows…what!!

  311. Kev says:

    Red, white and blue?? What country does that represent then?? Outfuckingrageous

  312. K1 says:

    seriously!!

  313. Castle Rock says:

    Red, White and Blue polluting the sky by the Red Arrows.

    Please be upstanding now…

  314. Croompenstein says:

    Sumdy shove the baton up his Proud Scottish erse

  315. Edward says:

    As much as I like the Red Arrows, why the fuck did these pricks include red smoke? Why not just Blue White Blue?

    SHITE

  316. Kev says:

    Thats it im switching aff or I won’t be held responsible for my actions

  317. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Meanwhile, to pass the time in the tunnel, the Commonwealth country athlete teams play another game of ‘name a country that UK hasn’t invaded’.

  318. pete the camera says:

    God save the Queen just the first verse pity they crapped out of the others would it have been good to hear it all 🙂

  319. Castle Rock says:

    Sorry Glasgow organisers, you’ve let us down and shamed Scotland with your Unionist shite.

  320. Croompenstein says:

    Hope sumdy hasn’t taken Betty’s wee message oot the baton and replaced it with a snottery hankie

  321. Thepnr says:

    Now I see why Salmond has totally sidestepped Indy Ref questions in interviews when talking about the Commonwealth Games. He knew that if he gave the BritNats enough rope they would find a use for it.

  322. K1 says:

    can’t believe god save the queen was played, flower of scotland should have been played!! It’s our national anthem, we are the county hosting the commonwealth games!

  323. Castle Rock says:

    It’s a fucking embarrassment, please make it stop…

    The best of British – Glasgow you should be ashamed.

  324. K1 says:

    Our flag should be next, probably the only time we’ll see it throughout the fortnight!

  325. Ian Brotherhood says:

    The Grand Finale will be Blair McDougall playing tuba, with Alistair Darling on triangle and Rob Murray on the washboard…’The Common Wealthers’.

  326. K1 says:

    It’s not Glasgow it’s city council labour hand in glove with bbc

  327. Les Wilson says:

    Wonder where the small flags with the Saltire and UJ came from, they appear to be a giveaway. Possible Glasgow Council, it would be interesting to find out.

    Barrowman was cringe worthy, a good example of Scotland to the World, not!

  328. Castle Rock says:

    K1, yes you’re right.

    The Labour Party bringing shame on Glasgow and Scotland.

    It’s seriously shite. Red, white and blue in the sky and union jacks in the stands??? WTF?

  329. Indy_Scot says:

    You would be forgiven for thinking these games were in London.

  330. K1 says:

    I know, total bastards, BT stitch up…nothing to do with us Glaswegians…not in my name.

  331. KOF says:

    A clustercringe of Brigadoonian proportions.

  332. Derek M says:

    you know i feel sorry for Queenie she must think the world is full of crass cheesy entertainers as everywhere she goes up they pop like a bad SDT.
    Anyhow bring on the sporting events as that is what it is all about not a bunch of celebrities looking for a mention on the honours list.

  333. Derek M says:

    oops that should read STD LOL

  334. I am so glad that I don’t watch telly anymore life is much too short.

  335. HandandShrimp says:

    I can’t say I am overly bothered by some red, white and blue but I think the BBC coverage is a bit naff. I have moved on to Rex Poseidon on SyFy…Ami was good but too much of it is boring.

  336. K1 says:

    Cannot believe the union flag as the back drop in the stadium, they think we button up the back, they have sorely misjudged us. I hope we fuckin send them into apoplexy with a 75% Yes vote. Bring it on. (sorry for all my swearin, I’m not used to visually engaging with anything to do with the bbc or telly in general, but I feel it was a necessary duty to really see how far they would go to not ‘politicise’ the games…)I’m watching to see the saltire, because I want to hear…that roar, and roar it will be…people are not stupid, we will feel that when the flag emerges.

  337. tartanarse says:

    “Where’s the common wealth in these games?”

    Its in London Paula.

  338. Kev says:

    I calculate that every Scotland team member now needs to win at least a silver to salvage the national pride that has been so tragically lost in the past hour…

  339. Castle Rock says:

    Maybe the people of Glasgow will now wake up and realise that the Labour Party are not only taking the piss out of them but the whole of Scotland.

    Truly awful opening ceremony and just remember folks you aint Scottish you’re fucking British and the BBC and the Labour Party will ram it down your throat until we’re independent.

    If this doesn’t put peoples backs up nothing will.

  340. Paula Rose says:

    Problem with a common wealth? Another reason for Scotland to rise and be a nation again.

  341. Thepnr says:

    I’m (un)lucky enough to have tickets for the Athletics at Hampden on the 2nd August. I’ll be taking the Saltire and my wife the Lion Rampant.

    Who knows, if enough do maybe we can restore some pride.

  342. tartanarse says:

    Missed the start as I was out. However having now watched it I am utterly ashamed.

    Like having your pants pulled down at your birthday party in front of all your friends and family.

    On live telly. Shown to millions.

    ProudScotsbut.

  343. Paula Rose says:

    Why should there be hungry bairns in a common wealth?

  344. Paula Rose says:

    Thepnr dear – is your wife rampant?

  345. Paula Rose says:

    I look to a common wealth that Scotland will take seriously. We have a purpose on the International stage.

  346. Croompenstein says:

    @Paula Rose – Why should there be hungry bairns in a common wealth?

    Because the Astons, Bentleys, Rollers, Lear Jets, Yachts etc use a lot of fuel and it’s not cheap honey

  347. Wee Jonny says:

    My wife, me and large Yes flag are going to the athletics on Tuesday.

  348. Paula Rose says:

    Sorry if I’m hogging the thread here – but is not an international union of nations something to strive for? A group of nations who from experience abhor war?

  349. donald anderson says:

    I switched channels when the Jelly Bean Swan song came on.

    Have we to forget the Court Jester Billy Connolly, sooking up to the English media in the 1979 Referendum? No wonder he was never aff the Parky show, bad mouthing the country of his birth, then moving South to be near his Royals.

    He should have been on a Union Jack Tandem with Sir Chris racing over the Border.

  350. Thepnr says:

    @Paula Rose

    Eh. No, she’s a lion. Now do as your told and put your head between her jaws.

  351. Paula Rose says:

    @ Croompenstein – the rich are very expensive and someone has to pay for them.

  352. donald anderson says:

    Commonwealth, Empire Games. Never again!

  353. Paula Rose says:

    @ Thepnr – obeyed.

  354. Thepnr says:

    @wee jonny

    According to the BBC Yes Saltires are not allowed according to the BBBC??

    Take it anyway and let us know how you get on, I’ll take mine as well in me pocket. Then change the saltire for the Yes one once in there, so if they take it off me I’ll stick the Saltire without Yes back on.

    If enough of us take them doubt they will get them all.

  355. Thepnr says:

    Got distracted, too many according to’s LOL

  356. Paula Rose says:

    Honeys – the commonwealth is lovely – all the best folk, plus lots of original people who we can empathise with, doesn’t need a genius to point out where the green ants roam.

  357. Wee Jonny says:

    Wuldoo Debbie MaGoo

  358. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr –

    ‘Now do as your told and put your head between her jaws.’

    Is ‘jaws’ a typo?

  359. Midgehunter says:

    What you’re seeing and hearing is not the Scottish/Glasgow CW Games, it’s the establishment watered down, mini version of the Olympic games with a quaint regional Scottish element thrown in.

    Thousends of people in little groups and committees have been planing for the last couple of years how to swamp any “Scottishness” in a sea of R-W-B. F**k the SNP SG YES.

    The beeb has everything choreographed from camera angles to commentators to public interviews to news bulletins. So what do you expect from them – neutral, what’s that???

    And who is mummys willing little helper – come on, “ahem” “cough” “spit” who runs Glasgow council? 🙁 garlic and wooden spikes comes to mind.

    Anyone who thought the games would be non politisised is quite frankly naive. They tried it with Bannockburn – AFD and went belly-up, they even tried it with the flags at T in the Park. AND they’ll try it on with the Ryder Cup – wanna bet!

    Every YES group and Wingers within 50 miles of Glasgow should be standing every day of the Games in the middle of Sauchiehall Street with a large stand (or two!) and spreading the word. That’s where to get folks attention.

  360. Paula Rose says:

    Ian dear – even I behave myself around Thepnr”s beautiful OH.

  361. Thepnr says:

    @Ian Brotherhood

    No, not a typo. I was going to say “and put your head into her mouth” but thought better of it. Paws was probably right though 🙂 🙂

  362. Andy says:

    The Union flag on Edinburgh is a British Army flag.

  363. Andy says:

    ^^^ Edinburgh Castle.

  364. Famous15 says:

    The South African singer singing Freedom Come All Ye made my night.

    Alex Salmond and Prince Imran were excellent. (Except for retrieving message)

  365. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Thepnr & Paula Rose –

    Ach, ‘paws’, ‘baws’, ‘maws’…we all know what’s on, and what’s not…

  366. Dougie Bee says:

    Well after reading the comment aboot the CG..TF I opted to sit in the garden with a bottle of whisky for company..now I know why next door were swearin oot lood…xxx

  367. Defo says:

    Comments disappearing again.
    All I said was, pity Eck didn’t include asking for a minutes silence for the hundreds of murdered Palestinians too. But that would politicise the games.

  368. Tackety Beets says:

    The Highlight for me was seeing the “Cameroon Athlete ” Marching round with an AFC tammy on his head ! Did you spot it Rev ? Nice one .

  369. Wall to wall coverage of the games where the national flag of SCOTLAND, the host country is BANNED.

    Another level of humiliation heaped on the people of Scotland where Belfast controls our Passports and controls our ancient Scottish Borders.

    A host country where Scots cannot PROVE they are Scottish ?

    And WINGERS are buying tickets to flourish their International anonymity and humiliation to the whole world?

    Trying to find sneaky ways to smuggle a Saltire into view.

    I will not be party to my country`s humiliation.

  370. Iain Lennox says:

    On reading this I am reminded of that old joke..
    When a Scot emigrates from Scotland to England, the AVERAGE IQ on BOTH sides of the border goes UP.

    [ Not a lot of people know that 🙂 ]

  371. David Stevenson says:

    Way back on this thread, Haggis Hunter claimed that Scotch amounted to 25% of UK exports. Incorrect. That figure is the proportion of UK food and drink exports.

  372. Neil says:

    Yes, the oil is not counted in the scenario on the right but is on the left. Non accountable GVA, as counterintuitive as it sounds, has not been allocated to Scotland because currently in the UK it is regarded as a shared asset. If you discount oil the rUK does slightly better than Scotland and hence the change in figures. Fairly obvious really as it is the only possible explanation. I will add I don’t think this is deliberate deception. Without assuming that the BBC is beyond reproach it has ben a fairly simple anonoly to identify. Even if the first version had never existed it would have been challenged and the BBC would have know that. It is much easier to succesfully deceive more subtley by editorial means.

  373. wee e says:

    The UK’s weasel-worded “geographical share of oil” is deceptive. Literally.

    “Geographical share” =/= “territorial share”.

    It does NOT mean “the revenues from the oil & gas that’s in Scottish waters.”

    At some point last year, I looked up the obscure explanatory notes in one of these GDP pubications and found that Scotland’s attributed “geographic share” of gas & oil revenues is around 7 to 8% of UK total. (Yes, just seven to eight per cent.

    The result of course is that we all ASSUME we’re looking at how much (how little!) Scotland would get from oil if it controlled its own oil territories.

    As far as I could understand the sly wee note, the definition of “geographical” was “geographical POPULATION peercentage.”

    Thus England gets attributed about an 80% “geographical share” of UK oil and gas revenues because it has about 80% of the population.

    Scotland seemed to get aboy 7.2 to 7.8% most years – some sort of extra minor adjustment that reduces it a bit more. (Maybe deductions for tax breaks to do with investment/development?)

    Find the full-length document, take note of the asterisks and small print in italics and LOOK UP ALL THE FOOTNOTES.

  374. donald anderson says:

    The spending on the SE Engerland flood defences also went per population basis with London getting the lion’s share and the SW almost left to the elements.

  375. Neil says:

    @wee e

    What you are saying is not right. Geographical share is the oil in Scottish waters. Population share is splitting the tax revenues of oil according to the percentage of the UK population that are Scottish. That is why you found 8% because the Scottish people are 8% of UK population. You must have misread it. About half way down this web page you will find a map and a description of geographic share. There is also an explanation of population share:

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2012/03/9525/6

  376. wee e says:

    @Neil. I know what I read, Neil. I wish I could remember exactly what document it was: I think it was a breakdown of the various economic sectors’ contributions to GDP. Further in, for some key industrial sectors there was a breakdown for each of the four UK constituents. I think it may have been for 2012. Amazed to see that the figures for oil revenues attributed to England were massive, while Scotland’s were tiny. At first I assumed a printing error — but then I noticed the wee asterisks and end-notes numbers and took a look at the notes way at the back. There, it became clear that “geographical” had taken on the weaselly meaning I described.
    I will try to track down for you which document this was.



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