The armoury of powers
We’re going to be in a frenzy of activity today writing posts for tomorrow, when we’ll be releasing the data from our second Scottish opinion poll. So things will be a little quiet until then – we suggest taking a few minutes to have a scroll down the page and catch up with anything you might have missed during the week.
First, though, if you didn’t catch The World At One on BBC Radio 4 yesterday, you might want to have a listen to this short interview it conducted with the First Minister.
Anyone tuned into the state broadcaster’s TV or radio current-affairs output couldn’t have failed to pick up the theme – programme after programme invited Mr Salmond on, and then demanded he credit the UK government for saving the Grangemouth petrochemical plant from closure, despite its involvement having been minimal.
(Curiously, non-BBC sources didn’t press the same angle.)
We were pleased to note that the FM adopted the more combative style he’s deployed with interviewers recently (also seen on last Sunday’s Andrew Marr Show), slapping down Edward Stourton in a polite but stinging manner we suspect might be getting increasing amounts of use over the next few months.
Yes I listened to the interview. Translation:The FM effectively stated that Pravda’s attempt at brainwashing was economically illiterate.
BBC really wanted to say ‘Our boys done good, you subsidy junkies’. Pathetic.
AS sounded thoroughly fed up with the BBC trying to set ridiculous parameters for their discussions with him. Sure we’ll here more of this kind of response from him – and possibly from others in the YES camp too – in coming months. Hopefully the message will get across, that there is a debate to be had, but it’s not the one the BBC are constantly angling for.
As you say, it’s to be hoped the FM uses this tone more in the future to tell the BBC where to get off.
However, perhaps doing so sparingly has more effect!
Good letter in the Herald today from Dr. Willie Wilson on this subject.
Keep it by you for refuting any unionist propaganda.
I really do wish the BBC would let the facts get in the way of their broadcasts #HopelessOptimist
From today’s Guardian editorial:
It would have been hard to find a more eloquent embodiment of the principle at the heart of the No campaign than this sight – even though Mr Salmond took to the airwaves to protest that an independent Scotland would have had the power to underwrite loans, as London has done.
Then they top it off with this, in true No campaign style without any explanation:
For the workforce and for Scotland the clear message was Better Together. The salvation of the plant is to the joint credit of both governments. That is a big lesson for 2014.
I have thought for some time that the people who we need to reach will not understand the language used to get the point across about powers and the mechanics of said powers, as this story illustrates.
I myself was confused by how most political pundits assume that whot they they say is understood-or is it intentional.
I work in front line services and assure you economics is best understood when the people themselves are understood.
Glasgow folk need it (not simple) relevant and personalised then you have it.
Sorry if this is nonsensical dont usually do this but am very engaged in my own way.
Tone of the interviewer fused with the unionist twitter feed yesterday mistaking the premium for a loan guarantee with the UK loan amount. Ignoring the fact that an Independent Scotland would of been able to offer the same loan guarantee, just presented a suitable trigger for FM’s slap.
Listen to that clip above, and you will hear a Scottish First Minister wholly in command of his brief. He speak s with such authority because he is fully in command of the facts.
His assertions regarding the BBC agenda to show that ‘it was London wot won it’, were effective and the kind of tone we need to hear more from him.
The behaviour of the blatantly biased and propagandist BBC simply is not tolerable anymore, and needs called out for what it is. Well done, Mr. Salmond.
Highlandmart,
Exactly. The fact that ONLY with independence could the Scottish Government offer such guarantees is an argument in favour of independence. Unionists suggesting otherwise are merely deluding themselves.
This was actually quite a useful interview. I had not realised that the UK government’s contribution was in the form of a loan guarantee. Neither did I know the Scottish government don’t currently have the powers to offer the cheaper loan guarantee option the UK was able to deploy.
A perfect illustration of why full powers are needed at Hollrood. Not what the BBC intended to illustrate, I’m sure.
“It would have been hard to find a more eloquent embodiment of the principle at the heart of the No campaign than this sight”
That’s true – ‘in order for Scotland to exercise the rights and powers that other nations take for granted, it has to go cap in hand to the political system that has a vested interest in controlling those rights’
So many more options, so much more swiftly enacted, would have been available were it not for the need for Westminster to sleepily awaken and turn its indifferent gaze northwards.
@JasonF
‘For the workforce and for Scotland the clear message was Better Together. The salvation of the plant is to the joint credit of both governments. That is a big lesson for 2014.’
Fckn ‘ell, the Guardian and the Telegraph are now officially the 2 most Unionist papers in the UK, very disappointing in the former.
Some readers on other sites have been saying that the initial reports from the BBC said that the union leaders had singled out Alex Salmond for particular praise because of his role in resolving the dispute but that later in the day BBC reports had this praise edited out.
I wonder of any Newsnet readers have any hard evidence of this that they can let us have via WoS.
I also see that the website Auld Acquaintance and the Daily Mail is reporting in reference to the dispute that “Shadow Business Secretary Alan Duncan said last night: “Gordon Brown’s destruction of employee pensions has put strikes back on the agenda for Britain. This is one of his particularly ugly chickens coming home to roost.”
So the fact that one Government can offer loan guarantees while the other can’t means that self-determination (which would bring with it the power to offer loan guarantees) should be abandoned and we should place all our faith in what the Guardian itself regards as the deeply questionable Westminster system?
Wow. The Guardian really is the pits. Freedom and Justice worldwide, trumpet Rusbridger and the Guardian!.. ahem, except for the Jocks, of course.
‘Egg their faces’, in a way the interview left the BBC with exactly that, something they hadn’t planned for. The fiasco at Grangemouth should have been averted by those that had the means to do so, the UK Westminster government, disgraceful bunch.
Here are all of the words!
The World At One: So, who should take credit to the Grangemouth deal? I put that question to Scotland’s First Minister, Alex Salmond, of the SNP.
Alex Salmond: People pulling together, and a lot that was done over the last 48 hours, obviously governments, but particularly the workforce offer, and I think they should be commended for that. Other parties, as well: BP made a material contribution, because they’re interested in securing the livelihoods of skilled jobs in Scotland. So people pulled together and I think everyone should be congratulated for turning what looked like an industrial catastrophe 48 hours ago into a prospect – and this is the really important thing about today’s announcement; that this is not an announcement, an investment for today and tomorrow and next year, but this is announcement for a quarter of a century, a secure future for the chemicals industry in Grangemouth.
TWAO: What about the unions though? The truth is that they miscalculated and then caved in completely, isn’t it?
AS: You know, right through this difficult two weeks, I’ve avoided commenting adversely on the unions, or indeed the management, because there’s been enough commentary – and by commentary, tweets and all the rest of it. As First Minister of Scotland it is my job to pull people together, to try and secure a future for the facility, and for the livelihoods of thousands of workers. That now has been done, and I’m not going to start into a commentary about what people should have done, should have said, or shouldn’t have done. It just wouldn’t be helpful.
TWAO: All right. You talk about the long-term future. One of the factors that made this deal possible, it appears, was the fact that the British government – the United Kingdom government – guaranteed a new ethane facility at Grangemouth. What do you make of that, in terms of what it means about the part of the UK government in the future of Scotland’s economy, or generally, actually?
AS: Well it’s good that governments work together, but the loan guarantee… I really do wish I had the powers to not give a loan, but just guarantee a loan, whereas it’s probably… I said something of industrial policy, not available to us just now, we just have to give people real cash, which is what the Scottish government have done to support the investment. But it’s good the government works together, but these have been on the table for months. They’ve been the constant factors – to be fair to the UK government, and the Scottish government – these offers that we’ve made to support an investment have been there for some time. That wasn’t the things that were stopping this investment go-ahead…
TWAO: Well…
AS: Listen, if I could add to my area of industrial policy, not to give people grants (which we do) or loans (which we do) but just give them guarantees on loans, then believe me, an independent Scottish government will do that.
TWAO: The plain fact is this could not have happened without the London government, could it?
AS: Well, that’s where I think you’re mixing up politics with economics. If the power had been… What’s a loan guarantee worth? It’s worth about £1 million in every £100 million you guarantee. Now I’m not diminishing that, incidentally, because I think this is a day for congratulating everybody for pulling together. I’m merely correcting you and saying if we had the powers to give loan guarantees in Scotland just now, we’d add that to our armoury of industrial policy, because it’s a lot cheaper than the powers that we currently have, of actually giving loans or giving grants.
TWAO: But you can see that a lot of people will look at this and say it’s an illustration of the fact that Scotland needs the heft that comes with being part of a bigger economic power.
AS: Well, that would be a ridiculous way to look at things for the reasons I’ve just given you. I’ve just pointed out that a loan guarantee system, where you have to not give a loan but just a guarantee of a loan, is something that an independent Scottish government would easily be able to do and have as part of its armoury of industrial powers, but the only people who have ever asked me about this, incidentally, are the BBC. You seem to be fixated on the idea that the UK government, alone of all governments in the world, are the ones who can give guarantees on loans. I think that’s a ridiculous argument to put forward, and therefore I prefer to stress the fact that both governments worked together, as we should, in the public interest, and as the Scottish government would do if Scotland were independent. And we have now secured, I believe, an investment which can bring about a secure future for this facility. Just as I won’t engage in (bandying?) between the union and the company, because that’s not helpful, I think people who attempt to play constitutional politics in this are going to end up with egg right over their face.
TWAO: Alex Salmond, talking to me earlier.
@Iain
At least the Telegraph makes an attempt at standing up for its beliefs (even if dismally). The Guardian has never explained why it has taken the decision to be against independence.
Its great that we exchange valuable information here and on other excellent pro-YES websites and that must continue at all costs but I think its also time that all of us who support YES in the campaign take the campaign far more aggressively to Project Fear by dominating the unionist controlled newspaper pages with comments extolling the numerous virtues of independence and refuting the daily tripe that they dare to insult Scotland with.
There is now no doubt that the unionists have absolutely nothing positive to say that could possibly justify the continuance of Westminster rule over Scotland any longer, and that Scotland will be severely punished if it votes NO next year.
There is a wealth of background information on the web from the likes of the Rev Stu etc. that can be used as deadly ammunition.
The events of this past week at Grangemouth have shown there to be an enormous divide between the world class statesman we are so lucky to have in Scotland by way of Alex Salmond and the unionist minnows like Carmichael, Davey and Lamont whose contribution to the rescue efforts were nothing more than political blather.
The MSM and the BBC are firmly in the hands of the unionists who will lie and cheat and distort and twist at every opportunity in order to decry Alex Salmond and the campaign for independence so it is up to all of us on the YES side to aggressively counter that at every opportunity with every weapon we have in our armoury.
Beeb’s TWAO’s arse well skelped in a headmasterly way by the FM: Splendid.
Thanks, Tasmanian for the devilish hardwork put into the transcription.
THe ‘Fat Lady ‘ hasnae sung yet on this subject. Once the dust has settled the No camp will be soing the Alistair Darling RBS shuffle on this? The Yes campaign better for once have an organised rebuttal ready for that point. A newsletter through every letterbox covering RBS and Grangemouth should be prepared. Otherwise the No camp and the media will have afield day.
Meantime the FM is playing it just right
The Establishment edifice is cracking and they can’t understand what is happening. The Independence movement is not staying on script, as the Unionists thought it would or should.
Marian
If you listen about 48 seconds in McCluskey credits First Minister and Scottish government and that their position of keeping the plant open was consistent with the union’s.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24647843
McCluskey’s hopes for survival of the plant only referred to Scotland. The UK government is only mentioned at the end of the interview and only in the context of possibly finding a new owner.
This was not shown in later broadcasts (as far as I am aware). I saw this live.
Watched & listened to all the Grangemouth discussions and interviews available and the FM came over as the most sensible and impartial spokesperson in this dark episode of Scotland’s industrial relations.
Watched the STV special which overall was reasonably a fair representation of the current events. It got a bit shitty when they had Eric Joyce in with the pro-union (both meanings) studio commentators where they refused to acknowledge or answer Mr Joyce’s question about one of the reasons why the whole debacle had started.
Honestly, it’s like a guy insisting his wife hands over all the money she earns to him, then says she can’t leave because she needs him to buy her clothes and sub her money.
In this particular instance, our first minister is an oil economicst to trade. I would far rather he had the powers and levers to deal with this than some Eton-educated towel folder in London who didn’t realise there was a problem until 2 weeks into it.
I posted similar on a previous thread but please bear with me.
Just imagine for one horrible moment that Labour were in power at Holyrood and Johann Lamont (sponsored by Unison) was first minister. where would we be regarding Grangemouth right now?
@ Tasmanian – Thanks for that and what a big chuckle I had reading your transcript and then listening to Rev’s link top of page.
The TWAO interviewer perhaps should have said in his last sentence ‘That was Alex Salmond, First Minister of Scotland talking to me earlier while he squeezed my nuts & reduced me to a jibbering junior reporter.’
Lamont is a member of Unite – she would have to have agreed with the union afterall they voted over the members to have her as ‘leader’.
The labour members voted for Ken McIntosh
I didn’t want Ken McIntosh to win at the time because I thought he’d be much better as a leader and might actually make a decent case against independence. I really wish he had won it now. The quality of the debate is so dire it really shows why you do need someone better on the other side. I’d far rather be having a good debate about independence, with someone making a decent case for the union than what we have now.
The bbc is renowned the world over for it’s fairness and impartial reporting? According to the bbc and all other msm and broadcasters who are used by the British state to push their propaganda! when you listen to the media mouths on radio/tv, the first thing that is apparent is the air of superiority, ignorance of the subject or blatant propaganda. Spineless sheep led by donkeys.
Trouble with the BBC is it’s instututionally ingrained bias so I’m sure most of the reporters don’t even know they’re doing it. To them – and to commentators and people in London generally independence for Scotland is a stupid idea, as a given. And Salmond is a petty little leader of a devolved part of the UK who has an ego big enough to assume he’s an equal with our leaders in Westminster and needs to be knocked down to size. Oh, and despite the SNP having 80 years they have literally no idea what independence means or what they want. Preferebly devo-max, right?
I’d bet the people interviewing him are often quite surprised to find he has a very solid grasp of what he’s doing, and of the issues, and can knock down their very flimsy, hastily read up, over-simplified version anyday. After all, the national media only noticed Grangemouth at the last minute. Salmond had been involved for weeks.
@Liz
“Lamont is a member of Unite – she would have to have agreed with the union afterall they voted over the members to have her as ‘leader’.The labour members voted for Ken McIntosh”
I stand corrected not that I think that it would make twopence worth of difference.
No doubt Johann would still be setting up a working group to look into setting up a committee to look into bla bla bla!
Man in the Jar, you’re quite right and your point is worth repeating. With Johann in charge she’d still be having a debate about it while the plant was being gas-axed and cut up for scrap. As things are we should all be grateful that she body swereved this one and kept well out of it. This was politics for big boys. I’m very impressed by the quality of statemanship that Salmond and Swinney have shown themselves capable of in bringing this potentially disaterous situation to a successful resolution. These two guys are world class and should be running a country somewhere. Any suggestions?
Ms Lamont at the most delicate part of the discussions goes public with an attack on the company calling their actions Dickensian. It was not her opinion that bothered me as many would agree but it was her outrageous lack of political or diplomatic skills And timing. If her insensitivity had cost 800 jobs her luxury of unguarded comment would have been expensive.As they say in the Army…saying balls to the colonel feels good for 29 seconds!
Where is Ianbrotherhood & Dcanmore these days? miss their comments and views.
As Iain Whirter said last week inn the Herald: – as a team Salmond Sturgeon and Swinney have few equals in the whole of Europe.
Also worth pointing out to those who claim it is Westminster what done it that Swinney and Salmond have been on the case at Grangemouth for months when UK government was trying to find Grangemouth on the map.
“Murray McCallum says:
26 October, 2013 at 1:21 pm
MarianIf you listen about 48 seconds in McCluskey credits First Minister and Scottish government and that their position of keeping the plant open was consistent with the union’s.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-24647843McCluskey’s hopes for survival of the plant only referred to Scotland. The UK government is only mentioned at the end of the interview and only in the context of possibly finding a new owner.
This was not shown in later broadcasts (as far as I am aware). I saw this live.”
Many thanks Murray – this must be spread around the web and the MSM.
@Jake
On reflection it would have been better if the bold Johann would have done a runner into her secret bunker below Georges Square and hid there till the nasty man went away.
Some of them are still looking for Grangemouth on the map. I read one particularly ill informed rant (I think in response to an article in the Telegraph) discussing the situation in Craigmouth.
@Gray
Confusing it with Craiglang? 🙂
Oh what a lovely listen.
If this was Breaking Bad, wee Eck would have cried out “BITCH!” at the end of his slap-down.
jake @2.27
These two guys [Salmond and Swinney] are world class and should be running a country somewhere. Any suggestions?
Spot on! 😀
Famous15@2.31
Ms Lamont at the most delicate part of the discussions goes public with an attack on the company calling their actions Dickensian. It was not her opinion that bothered me as many would agree but it was her outrageous lack of political or diplomatic skills And timing.
Agree completely.
The other unionist party “leaders” in Scotland were not seen or heard (which was probably a good thing), at the last moment the UK government sends their Westmister’s man in Scotland, the newly promoted LibDem MP Carmichael to pose beside Swinney. The UK Energy Minister had before voiced some mumblings of sadness and regret over Grangemouth… How galling it must’ve been for him that the Scottish Goverment actually succeeded in bringing the partners back to the negotiation table and helped prevent the disaster!
The BBC, in particular, and other MSM are of course trying to spin it so that it couldn’t have been done without the benevolent UK gov and it’s loan guarantees. Salmond was right in pointing out that if Scotland had the powers of independence, it could’ve given those guarantees. Like other independent countries do. Loan guarantees are not somehow unique to the UK government.
After listening to that interview, it really does highlight, the fact that an independent Scotland, wouldnt need to rely on the UK Government, if full powers are obtained in 2014.
Though I must add that Scottish Government are in my opinion doing a fantastic job with one hand tied behind their backs.
As for the pathetic, UK Governments mouthpiece the BBC, they’re relishing every litle snippet they can push forward that the UK Governments minimal intervention, on the Grangemouth matter was of the utmost importance.
Even the tempestuous John Reith, who came into conflict with the UK Government, for broadcasting the truth, and both sides of the 1926 general strike, would be birling in his grave to see, just what a sychopant, of Westminster the BBC has become.
As for the Scottish arm of the BBC, Im far to disgusted by them to even go their.
Sky news this morning had a interview with James Smearton ( one of the guys that designed the MORPH SUIT ) their looking for people / places TO CRASH MOB as a adverizement stunt for YOU TUBE can some of yous find it & Submit Project Fear aka BT s offices am not pc literate interviewer said its American somethin They designed they suits in a student flat on the Mound in Edinburgh anither Scottish contrabution tae the world To Wee To Stupid Hiv a look fur that Johan Lament wuld be a good target ( if she s noo in her bunker again ) Hail Alba mair suugestions
@cath – agreed at least Ken Mcintosh would be fairer and I dont think he would allow Baillie etc to spout lies.
He’s probably a closet LFI.
Also it would have been a gift having Lamont if she was held to account by the media – which is never going to happen.
@The Man in the Jar – agreed it would make any difference to her input which would have been ‘What does Ed say’.
Her being a member of unite just makes it stink a bit more.
That should have been – made no difference etc
Would you ever have believed it. The conservative and unionist party marching in the same parade with Gmb, unite, usdaw, slab, libs, House of Lords, THE ESTABLISHMENT. THERE MUST BE SOMETHING VERY SERIOUS GOING ON. There is, the gravy train is in peril. The enlightened peasants are revolting, well most at the bbc think we are.
The resolution of the Grangemouth crisis proves the claim made by Scottish Labour that Alex Salmond and his nationalists spend too much time focusing on independence and the constitution rather than dealing with the real issues and running the country. Discuss.
Since Stu is going to be busy today writing articles for tomorrow, if your like music and story’s with a Scottish twist, I highly recommend “The Great Hip Hop Hoax”. (90mins)
Its on iPlayer (BBC4)
(I would put the link, but im on an Android device. Just select iPlayer BBC4 and you should find it easy.) Enjoy.
What are the chances of The Great Eck making it a hat trick?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Politician_of_the_Year
Having said that look at the list of previous recipients?
jake
You said what most people who are watching the Grangemouth situation were thinking.
@Balgayboy-
‘Where is Ianbrotherhood & Dcanmore these days..‘
Don’t know about Dcanmore, but I was just away making some mince and tatties.
Cheers mister.
Tasmanian – All right. You talk about the long-term future. One of the factors that made this deal possible, it appears, was the fact that the British government – the United Kingdom government – guaranteed a new ethane facility at Grangemouth.
Thanks for transcribing the interview Tasmanian, notice the subtle use of what the UK Gov actually gauaranteed – not an “ethane facility” but a loan guarantee to back borrowing to install one. As our first minister explained, if that was an additional power we had, far from not being able to resolve this dispute in Scotland affecting Scottish jobs and Scottish people, an independent Scottish Gov could have resolved it quicker.
No wonder Cameron won’t debate our First Minister, he knows AS would wipe the floor with him!
Leafletting today I had three separate discussions on this particular subject with the public. The first person, listened and responded that he hadn’t realised the difference between a loan and a loan guarantee. The second person simply wouldn’t accept the definition unfortunately. The third person wanted to keep the queen. Otherwise the public were happy to accept our leaflets.A few sullenly declined, and several smiling, declined saying “It’s OK I’m a Yes”.
Thanks Alba4Eva, I’d forgotten about that I’d wanted to watch it. Here’s the link for anyone else interested:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b03cxf8y/Storyville_20132014_The_Great_Hip_Hop_Hoax/
Listening to this BBC radio broadcast with our FM, they start off planting the booby trap right from the word go, Salmond swipes this away with ease but you just know the BBC interviewer wont leave it there and will come back for more and boy Salmond didnt dissapoint, what a slapping he dished out to the interviewer. The pomposity and sheer arrogance these guys display is a total handicap to the NO side and i hope they carry right on like that right up to referendum day. Im beginning to see what lost them all their former colonies and Scotland will be no different. They are so blinded by their supposed superiority and for me Salmond delivered the killer blow with the line ‘Well, that’s where I think you’re mixing up politics with economics’. Vintage Salmond and i listened in awe wondering if he even came out of second gear.
Salmond and Swinney proved their worth over this grangemouth crisis. They really are head and shoulders above the Camerons, Millibands and Cleggs of these islands and as others have said heaven help Scotland if Lamont and her poor excuse for an opposition party had been in power at Holyrood. Shudder at the thought. The SNP have proven time and again that they put Scotland first at all times that and having the political will. Its something that the Unionist parties dont possess and so gives the SNP a huge advantage over them as we found out over grangemouth.
I’m just waiting for Cara Wosname to stand up at Holyrood and hand out leaflets claiming that was actually Labour who resolved the whole business by forcing a reluctant Salmond to negotiate. The depressing thing is that if she did this, several thousand people in Dunfermline would believe her.
I think one of the most important outcomes of this for the Yes campaign is how the unions actually feel and think about the Scottish Government efforts.
Listened to John Swinney on GMS this morning and he stated that he had been working on this for months with the unions and management. The unions know who worked their butts off to get this resolved as does the STUC and I have a feeling that this could work well for yes.
Does it explain Len McCluskey’s refusal to come out for better together in his Newsnight interview. Or am I being too hopeful and naive.
Just a minor point but I heard Mr Carmichael offer for someone to mediate,like Alistair Darling- why would a labour backbencher be given the role when in all fairness Michael Connerty represents that area unless of course a point was trying to be made?
Haartime
Acknowledging the role played by the SG re: Grangemouth is one thing but using their members money to send out letters to persuade members to vote labour shows how the leadership think.
A bit like the scorpion and the fox story about crossing the river. . . you know how it ends!
I was a union member all my life until recently but wish their Scottish membership would look at encouraging their branches to support the YES.
TMINJ @3.31
What are the chances of The Great Eck making it a hat trick?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Politician_of_the_Year
Having said that look at the list of previous recipients?
WOW, that makes interesting reading. Like, for instance, they had to create a special award for Ruthie Davidson. (Newcomer of the Year (2011 only)).
Or a Lifetime Achievement Award/Outstanding Political Achievement award to Gordon Brown in 2011, after he’d been instrumental in wrecking the country (UK and Scotland as part of it.)
Best Scot at Westminster? All the others are government ministers or their party’s national leaders (Ming Campbell in 2004). Only for the SNP two any real reasons are given:
2006: Angus MacNeil, MP, Scottish National Party, for instigating the Metropolitan Police investigation into the “Cash for Honours scandal”
2011: Angus Robertson, MP, Scottish National Party Parliamentary Group Leader in Westminster and shadow minister for Defence and Foreign Affairs.
Oh, and look who the next year’s winner was!
2012: Michael Moore, MP, Liberal Democrats, Secretary of State for Scotland (now sacked…)
The Main Award has been won by the SNP FIVE times out of six after 2007 (Alex Salmond twice, Nicola Sturgeon twice, John Swinney once.) The only exception is
2010: Hugh Henry, MSP, Labour back-bencher, convenor of Public Audit Committee
But the real hoot is this one! (Only delivered the two times so far)
Political Impact of the Year
2012: Johann Lamont, MSP, Labour
2011: Murdo Fraser, MSP, Conservative and Unionist (the year Ruthie got the first and only Newcomer award…)
I just fail to see why Ms Lamont should be awarded for her negative impact on Scottish politics. She’s plumbed new depths I scarecly believed possible after the ineptness of Iain Gray. She has shown no leadership, no vision, no competence. I might not agree with Murdo Fraser’s politics but he’s at least shown all three. (I think he’s secretly waiting for Scottish independence so that he can set up his right-wing Scottish not-Tory party.)
OK, I’ve tried to clear all the HTML/tags, can I now get off detention? 😉
No probs CR. I really enjoyed it 🙂
My limited experience of a Union is not very positive. I won’t go into details but some issues arose at work affecting around 20 people, of whom maybe 3 were union members (I wasn’t one of them). Union reps, one quite senior, did attend some meetings to hear our problems. The senior member a) made errors as to employment law and tribunal practice but delivered information as though she was 100% sure b) didn’t listen properly to us i.e. seemed to want to talk more than listen c) mostly seemed obsessed with us all joining the union. The impression I was left with was that some of these Union representatives were mostly interested in hobnobbing with management and inflating their own sense of self-worth, much more than getting a deal for their staff.
To cut a long story short, we got several concessions from management working as a group without help from the Union, who had basically told us we had no case. Those concessions had general application i.e. they weren’t just for those of us who complained. We get no acclaim or personal gain for our efforts, nor do we want any.
Not sure why Edward didn’t just ask Alex to kick in him the fork…it would have been quicker and easier for all concerned.
Molly@4.53
Just a minor point but I heard Mr Carmichael offer for someone to mediate,like Alistair Darling- why would a labour backbencher be given the role when in all fairness Michael Connerty represents that area unless of course a point was trying to be made?
If this true, it really is just one Westminster Party! How could an opposition back-bench MP speak for the UK government? Unless they all really are one big unionist party in Scotland?
If governments are involved in these kind of negotiations, it’s the relevant ministers who are supposed to work on it. SG’s Swinney, UKG’s trade and industry ministers (no discernible involvement), UKG’s energy minister (who was only sadened) and also the UKG’s Scottish Affairs minister Carmichael, who rushed up at the last moment). In serious situations, even the Heads of Government (David Cameron, Alex Salmond) could be expected to work towards finding a positive outcome.
Opposition party MPs (or MSPs) can only have a role in representing their own constituents. They cannot speak for the government (UK or Scotland). And why is only Michael Connerty (LAB) mentioned? I’m sure the West Falkirk MP (ex-LAB, now independent) Eric Joyce also has many constituents working in Grangemouth. But maybe that’s just too inconvenient and complicated for the MSM because it’d expose the unhealty relationship between Scottish politicians and trade unions and how that mess is affecting issues of national importance.
The point made by Salmond that the loan guarantee costs the WM Government £1million per £100million.A £150million loan guarantee would cost WM £1.5 million, compared to £9million cash from the Scottish Government.
O/T but not sorry. I was accosted by a leafleteer in Edinburgh Princes Street this afternoon. A lone gentleman.
I asked what is it? He replied “To keep Scotland in the UK”
I responded instantly and loudly “NO!” and continued “DAMN YOU”
I make no apology. If anyone is a BT activist then I am not going to mince my words.
I then took my daughter to the “Mary Queen of Scots” exhibition and was impressed. Well worth the entry fee.
lumilumi
If this true, it really is just one Westminster Party! How could an opposition back-bench MP speak for the UK government?
This is precisely why the UK government want AS to debate with Darling and why it should not happen. Darling cannot give answers about anything regarding UK policy in the event of a YES or a NO vote winning.
It would be playing the smoke and mirrors game and obscure from the public the facts and figures they need to make a choice. By the way, where is Darling this week?
Davy boy is taking a big chance either way in going / not going head to head with AS. But who will step up to the plate? AS is our best card and it would be a great pity , even a mistake, not to play it. That is what Davy boy has to weigh up, take a chance or stay quiet.
Good on you, Robert! 😉
Time to ditch the Mister Nice Guy stuff…
Touche Mr Salmond and yes at last, the BBC commentator gets covered in egg !
Again a case of ‘Dont tread on me – as there are consequences’.
I responded instantly and loudly ”NO!” and continued “DAMN YOU” I make no apology. If anyone is a BT activist then I am not going to mince my words.
if anyone in bt approaches me, as long as its a wee guy under 10 stone i might just about possibly not mince my words either.. maybe
@Robert,
Well done sir they need to understand that what they are proposing is dumb and backward in the extreme
It is normal for nations to make all their own decisions – they seem to manage rather well it right across the world these days.
Poor old Astonished over on Newsnet, posted what I thought was a nicely formatted comment on the Trade Union/Labour letter thread, and got hit with one of these BOLD admin comments that Newsnet seem so fond of, to the tune of “don’t leave white spaces in your comments”.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-politics/8239-trade-union-sent-pro-labour-letters-to-dunfermline-constituents
I know I run the risk of offending some of the more sheltered readers on here, but Newsnet Admin is in serious need of a blow job, I mean, really?
(I am indebted to Robert Kerr for inspiring this bolshy attitude, cheers min!) 😉
On a more serious note, perhaps folk would contribute more to what is an excellent Indy site: Mr Ponsonby is superb, and they have the good sense to publish the posts that the inimitable Mr Bateman is enlivening us with these days. But their moderation policy is almost as bad as the Herald, and there is no need for the level of censorship they seem comfortable with. (Which brings us nicely back to the BJ). 😉
Ah well, don’t suppose I’ll ever get a comment accepted again forby, ach, never mind, I’m sure they won’t miss me.
@ Robert
Cuts both ways of course. We got thoroughly sworn at today (wasn’t Princes St, so the language was a little more colourful)
It had something to do with the First World War commemorations/celebrations. I forget what. I suspect some morning refreshment was involved….
We find the best tactic is just to disengage, refuse to answer back, get on with life…
Robert. I understand your frustration, but we do need to stay with the program. As an idea and to make a protest, accept the leaflet and instantly tear it up with the leafletter watching… then walk to the nearest bin and dispose of it.
They try to discourage us. I say demoralise them in the same way, but stay civil.
Kininvie
The First World War? The war of Empires were our young were forced out the trenches to industrial slaughter in no man’s land or face being shot by their own officers or firing squad as a coward. I can’t even begin to think what that has to do with being Better Together. I mean FFS! it isn’t as if being independent means we change sides. The sacrifice those young men made remains just as those of the ANZAC, Indian and Canadian troops remains.
Well, the last couple of posts make clear that we all have different opinions on these matters, but that underscores my point, Rev Stu’s moderation, the lack of, ensures that these things can be discussed in a civilised, or sometimes not so civilised manner, and that, my friends, is the healthy option and, in my humble opinion, this is the most important of the Indy sites.
Just look at any of the BT interwebs – something I have now managed to train myself not to do – and you will see that any opinion that does not conform to the UK-centric view is deleted, this in itself being a reason to reject their nonsense.
People of all walks of life interact here, for the most part pleasantly, and the opinions of others are examined and tolerated, something remarkably refreshing in this age of spin, and Rev, for what it’s worth, your policy on comments is bang on.
Looking forward massively to tomorrow’s revelations.
A quick overview of events in Aberdeen today to hopefully provide some cheer for folk.
We heard last night that BetterTogether were planning to set up a stall outside Marks & Spencers at 10:15am, so a crack team of about 10 Aberdonian Yessers was quickly assembled, ready to be dispatched to the area for 10am this morning. When we arrived, BetterTogether were nowhere to be seen. By the time they came and got themselves set up (about 10:30am), we’d already had a couple of folk come and sign the Yes Declaration. Apart from being a smaller group than us, they consisted of Richard Baker MSP, Lewis Macdonald MSP, Cllr Willie Young, the assistant of one of the MSPs, and a couple of pensioners. We had people in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, and with the exception of Christian Allard to provide a bit of Gallic flair, there wasn’t a professional politician in sight.
Around noon, the 90 Minute Unionists (thanks to @nuttyxander for that one) decided their collapsing banner was obviously nature’s way of telling them to head off, so they packed up their wallpaper pasting table and headed off. Yes Aberdeen doesn’t do token appearances however, so we stayed on to get more signatures on those Yes Declarations. Don’t know the final total, but it was at least 50 when I left at around 2pm to fill the hole in my stomach.
One guy who came up to us said something very interesting, however. After asking if we were the same as “that lot over there”, he told me he had been about to sign their declaration/mailing list/whatever until he realised they were against independence. Makes you wonder just how clear they’re being when talking to people. He then signed our declaration, making a point of doing so where they could see him.
Another interesting exchange went thus:
Bloke: “Are you the ones campaigning for Scotland?”
Me: “Yes.”
Bloke: “Well I’m a No.”
So there you have it, a No vote is a vote against Scotland.
Great day of campaigning. Lots of people taking an interest in the referendum, people taking badges to show their support, and from speaking to undecideds, you can just tell that they really do WANT to be convinced. I’m more sure than ever that the white paper is going to lead to a significant shift towards Yes, because a lot of people are already nearly there.
Most of the time I manage to ignore unionist propaganda, it’s a bit like midges, irritating but easily squashed. However I find myself being seriously scunnered by the media’s, (especially the BBC’s) Better Together slant on the Grangemouth issue. This overly generous £125 million donated by the UK Government to save Grangemouth really cheeses me off. £125 is buttons in comparison to the £250 billion plus that the UK Government has stolen from Scotland’s North Sea over the last forty years. Talk about imperialism, baubles for diamonds and gold just about sums the situation up. Bale out the grateful natives every once and a while and they will take no notice that we are robbing them blind. Better Together? I think not!
Re the Grangemouth saga, anyone care to guess where the unions complete surrender leaves the Stephen Dean situation?
Why did he ask for the companies report to be delayed, anybody know?
O/T a bit here but had an idea it might be worthwhile making our displeasure at the behaviour of the BBC, and MSM in general known at this years Scottish Bafta awards next Month.
http://www.bafta.org/scotland/awards/british-academy-scotland-awards-2013,3967,BA.html
Those of us previously involved with the rallies and demonstrations, whilst not willing to get sidetracked by the pointless task of trying to sway BBC attitudes are willing to at least issue the rallying cry for an event such as this.
It may have no effect on the skewed output from our MSM but those with high perceptions of themselves and the wee bubble they exist in, most certainly don’t want ‘called out’ whilst hobnobbing with their pals.
I think this could be a worthwhile exercise in that there will be many ‘exiles’ in attendance who have no or little idea at what is going on with regards to domestic coverage of the referendum debate. I’m sure there are many who would be appalled.
Any thoughts are welcome on this, yourself included Rev (“oh cheers”) as I know you are wary of the effectiveness of such gatherings.
Right O/T to the O/T just to add my feelings on the visibility of Yes. Been wearing my Yes bunnet the last week or so, and not had a negative reaction yet, fair few positive. We all really need to try and increase the Yes presence in any way we can.
Re: Deans He has a right to ask for time to prepare his case and defence in a disciplinary hearing. I’m guessing they will look to bag him. Regardless, they have scrapped full time officials so if he retained he will be going back to the tools.
Looking forward massively to tomorrow’s revelations.
Yup Stuart me too
Rev, With regards tomorrow’s poll – will it be a bit like election night and we can sit up drinking until you release the results in the early hours of tomorrow morning – nothing better than getting good news when yer half scooped
Re Deans, I suppose he has the right to expect union help, but what can they actually do this time, It would be interesting to know where the ‘evidence’ against him came from, I wonder if the public will ever be told?
Cool. I hadn’t seen this before 🙂
Thanks for the update Doug, heartening stuff. Back in ABZ now, eh? How was Germany?
I’m in Stavanger now, beautiful country, certainly a great model for us, even if beer is expensive (weight’s dropping off since I left the cheap Baltika 3 in Kaz!) 🙂
Perhaps we need you down in Glasgow and the West, there still seems a stubborn core of Orangemen and UK-ites down there, worrying as it is the largest population centre.
Anyway, keep up the good work, and say hello to Martin if he ever drags himself back from Atyrau. Incidentally, I did a Go Completions course with Sandy MacNab about six weeks ago, and it wasn’t until I was driving down the road, that I realised I had forgotten to ask if you were in the office, Alzheimer’s I believe.
im not into privatisation but i would privatise the bbc tomorow if i could.
@Doug Daniel – I live on ‘Royal’ Deeside (most locals prefer to think that the ‘Royal’ refers to the splendour of the stags seen in the glen at this time of year). Anyway I have been noticing a swing to YES. Last Sunday morning a friend and committed No voter suddenly declared that she was now a YES voter. She said she had read some of the info. I had given her and had changed her mind. I was gobsmacked. Then last night in the Balmoral Bar in Ballater another friend said that both he and his English wife were voting YES after giving some thought to a discussion we had had some weeks previous, they had been don’t knows. If folk on ‘Royal’ Deeside are moving to YES then I really do believe we are in with a shout of winning.
@Alba4ever
I’ve been pushing it out on Twitter – so why aren’t you following @BreichSNP? 🙁
It’s our very own Kendomacaroonbar who is responsible. Big +1 to him/her
Thanks BillC for…
“Unionist propaganda? It’s a bit like midges, irritating but easily squashed.”
I dont go on Twitter Kininvie… but big up to Kendo. Superb work 🙂
Stu should incorporate this onto the Home page.
Stuart – Deutschland war sehr gut! A few too many union jack motifs on bags and t-shirts for my liking, however…
I have my suspicions that Sandy might be a Yes voter. Haven’t asked outright, but a couple of things he said one time made me think he was more likely to be a Yes than a No.
As for Glasgow and the West, I dunno about the UK-ites, but I heard an interesting story today that Sinn Fein intend to descend upon Coatbridge next year and tell everyone to vote Yes…
Speaking of Twitter, just picked up this from Greg Moodie:
“How to make a troll go away happy whilst simultaneously insulting him. See comments:”
http://nationalcollective.com/2013/09/29/the-empire-strikes-out/ …
ROFL
@Alba4Eva: Thank you very kindly for that youtube video, absolutely awesome!
Who was responsible for that, anyone know?
Re: Deans He has a right to ask for time to prepare his case and defence in a disciplinary hearing. I’m guessing they will look to bag him. Regardless, they have scrapped full time officials so if he retained he will be going back to the tools.
True, but they also said there will be some redundancies.I think Deans will be offered a package.
I must say I was surprised at myself. The whole incident was over in under ten seconds and there was complete spontaneity on my part.
Oh well, being lied to for too long must be a problem within my psyche.
My father had a scroll from King Haakon VII thanking him for his part in liberating Norway. I asked him what he did so late in the war. He told me he helped root out the Quislings.
Stuart, Kendomacaroonbar as Kininvie told me above.
Kininvie… I think I have dirty panties after reading that on National Collective 🙂 LOL
Robert. Your excused 🙂
@twenty14-
‘…we can sit up drinking until you release the results in the early hours of tomorrow morning – nothing better than getting good news when yer half scooped.’
I like it.
How ’bout it Rev?
Instead of ‘And Finally’, you could have ‘And Firstly’ – one wee teensy toty snippet to send us to our scratchers happy? Also means we could tease our non-WoS contacts, entice them to tune-in tomorrow.
Stephen Deans problem is that he spent most of his time trying to get Len McLuskey’s girl friend selected as the Labour candidate to replace Eric Joyce rather than concentrating on Ineos’ plans to shut down Grangemouth.
Bill C @7.55pm
This overly generous £125 million donated by the UK Government to save Grangemouth really cheeses me off. £125 is buttons in comparison to the £250 billion plus that the UK Government has stolen from Scotland’s North Sea over the last forty years…
And there you have it, BBC/MSM job done.
The UK government did not stump up (or donate!!) £125m.
They gave a loan guarantee. A fairly typical economic lever used by governments of independent countries. It means that in case Ineos Grangemouth goes tits up, the UK gov will cover their debts up to £125m. Whereas the Scottish government has no power to offer loan guarantees (which encourage investment) so had to stump up £9m from their pocket money regional development fund. Cash. Which kind of encourages short-term grab & run capitalism.
See any picture emerging?
Scotland with no real economic powers has to pay taxpayers’ money, the UK get by with a guarantee without paying any actual money.
Now, if Scotland was an independent country, the government could offer a package of grant/state loan and government loan guarantee. Like normal independent countries do. The UK government are not somehow unique in being able to give a loan guarantee, it’s done all the time in independent countries to encourage investment and R&D. Loan guarantees seldom materialise, at least not in full. Often loan guarantees drive infrastructure investment and R&D because they reduce the companies’ risk to an acceptable level in the mid to long term.
The long and short of it is that Scotland is severly hampered in its endeveours to support investment, infrastructure and R&D because it does not have the full economic tools. This in a country with excellent higher education, a country which could be an R&D hub, the R&D feeding into successful modern manufacturing and businesses. And what is holding Scotland back?
Yup. The blessed UK union, the Westminster elite who give SFA about Scotland. I wonder if they’ve yet even located “Craigsmouth” on the map…
Sorry for another rant, but I get so angry sometimes!
O/T – In July the Scottish Government brought out –
Planning Scotland’s Seas – Scotland’s National Marine Plan Consultation Draft
What impresses me so much about this document, is the scale of Scotland’s infrastructure, the projects and the 22 detailed maps 😉
Scotland has 61% of the EEZ of the UK and this report is an eye-opener.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2013/07/9185/0
@lumillumi – Spot on, thanks for the clarification, I fell into the trap of not looking at the detail of what was actually on offer from UK Government. A classic example of the power of propaganda.
OT/ Kevin McKenna over on the Gruniad. “An independent Scotland must own its energy sources”
There is continual speculation, exaggeration and wishful thinking in the orchestrated portrayal of the various disasters that Unionists project/ hope will befall an Independent Scotland, but not a word about the upheavals, difficulties, shortages and general disarray that inevitably will befall England.
Strange, that!
btw
The Scottish government offerred the £9 million cash months ago long before Westminster got involved with their loan guarantee which doesn’t involve any real cash.
Just as we should challenge the Unionist assertion that Scottish banks received the biggest banking bail out.
Federal Reserve data showing UBS AG and Barclays Plc ranked among the top users of $3.3 trillion from emergency programs is stoking debate on whether U.S. regulators bear responsibility for aiding other nations’ banks.
UBS was the biggest borrower under the Commercial Paper Funding Facility, with $74.5 billion overall, more than twice as much as Citigroup Inc., the top U.S. bank recipient, according to the data released yesterday. London-based Barclays Plc took the biggest single amount under another program that made overnight loans, when it got $47.9 billion on Sept. 18, 2008.
http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/why-did-the-banks-only-become-scottish-after-they-failed/
Poll
8.am
In the Sunday Herald tomorrow:
Our splash tomorrow: Salmond’s secret plan to save Grangemouth … front page to follow soon
Every No Voter should be invited to sign up to the “No Declaration”!
Humour can sneak past ignorance and penetrate into the conscience of even the most hardened Cringers. This No Declaration should be spread far and wide.
@Silvermcg.
Yeah! 🙂 Setting the alarm.
Clocks go back 1 hour tonight guys !!
Rev – can I operate the Swingometer, please go on say yes ( smiley face with a wink )
Hey kendomacroonbar! Fantastic work there. 🙂
@ CR and Alba4Eva
The great Hip Hop Hoax: thanks, I enjoyed that. Scottish people. Fucking capable of anything.
Alex
What I’m doing is putting out stuff with ‘New poll released tomorrow. See preview’ and then giving link to Kendo’s vid.
Will the clocks still go back in an independent Scotland?
In the event of a “No” vote, the clocks will go back to 1979!
@HandandShrimp
I fully support shop stewards and Trade Unions who care about and represent their members.
I have no truck whatsoever however with shop stewards who work on behalf of the British Labour Party and perhaps if they concentrated upon improving terms and conditions of the workers rather than supporting One Nation English nationalism then Scotland and the Trade Unions would be in a far better place.
Stephen Deans has done a lot of damage at Grangemouth, he should have been supporting his members rather than being involved in the British Labour Party shenanigans in Falkirk.
Its people like Deans that do damage to Scotland and ordinary trade union members.
Kendo. Love your work. 😉
Evening Major !
I have put a couple more up on YouTube and I use them as pointers to this site.
I contemplated the idea of short vids featuring Major Bloodnok with such pearls as
” The Major says, ” Voting NO? don’t be a bad egg, there’s a good chap !”
Thanks Alba !
Alex Taylor… glad you liked “The Great Hip Hop Hoax”. It was a guy in my work that told me about it on Friday… Glad he did and you are right. Anything can be achieved with the ambition to do so, which is kinda the moral behind it. Essential viewing for folks on here I thought.
Loved the bit where he said he felt like he was fighting for the nation (obviously meaning Scotland). 🙂
Highly ON TOPIC
Tweet from Wings:
…and re-do about a third of the calculations and edit any conclusions accordingly, and it’s your BIRTHDAY in 100 minutes.
All together now….
Alba – met you outside the Albannach and gave you a badge. I watched the hip hop documentary too – excellent wee film.
OT
Surprisingly fair piece on the Dunfermline by election here – gloomy for Labour.
Apologies:
http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/10/dunfermline-victory-can%E2%80%99t-disguise-scottish-labour%E2%80%99s-difficulties
Marcia
Also in tomorrow’s Sunday Herald – ‘Workers exposed to Radiation at Faslane’
I accidentally happened upon Dominic Sandbrook’s BBC2 historical documentary of 1970s Britian tonight. Its segment on Scotland and the 1979 referendum reminded me why I don’t watch the BBC if I can possibly help it. Having just had a quick squint at Sandbrook’s Wikipedia entry I can see why the BBC like him.
Reference –
The Winner Takes it All 77-79
The 70s
BBC
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01j0vlz
Hi clochoderic. How are you doing mate?
Glad you enjoyed it.
I was a little down after Dunfermline. When you are informed, folk voting and being suckered by lies is hard to take sometimes.
Anyways, good to hear from you. 🙂
B.
O/T. I see Rough Justice Film’s ‘A Partying Hymn; Lies, Deceit and the Death of the Labour Party‘ has been taken down.
Odd as that was up for what over a year(?) without complaint.
If anyone has a copy, would be worth getting up again.
As Kininvie mentioned above, it’s Rev’s birthday at midnight.
Suitable songs required, to help while away the hours before we get a sniff at the poll results…
…where’s me Bonny Tyler’s Greatest Hits…
Doug Daniel
Aye I heard that Better Together didn’t go very well in Aberdeen today, re your bit about the no voter, I had a similar experience selling raffle tickets at an Arran Yes Event (AYE) The shall we say mature women said to me IS THIS FOR THE SNP, I replied no its for Yes Arran she said good as Im a Scottish Patriot, I said to her did you know Wendy Wood and she replied NO Im a Scottish Patriot and want us to remain in the UK. Sold her the tickets anyway!!!!
Some strange folk out there!!!
Scottish Skier – according to the You Tube splurge ‘This video contains content from WMG, SME, [Merlin] Essential Music, BMG_Rights_Management, Warner Chappell, IODA, PEDL, PRS CS and EMI Music Publishing, one or more of whom have blocked it in your country on copyright grounds’ Strange that these music publishers have decided infringement
<a href=”http://twitpic.com/divgbt” title=”Our splash on Twitpic”><img src=”http://twitpic.com/show/thumb/divgbt.jpg“
“All together now….”
How can you be sooo evil as to not give more snippets on such a benevolent occasion?
O/T – The Rev has tweeted that the first of our new poll articles will be published tomorrow @8.00am.
Also, it’s is his birthday tomorrow.
Think we should all post Happy Birthday congrats to him, just after midnight, by way of thanks for his efforts 🙂
Sunday Herald front page:
http://twitpic.com/divgbt
Sunday Herald front page http://twitpic.com/divgbt
snap
Marcia
Beat me to it..lol 🙂
Aye, we are that Cleveland crowd…
First person to wish the Rev happy Birthday at midnight gets a free ( special ) badge, some cake and a Wings car sticker – f your happy about that Rev – got to be your 50th for sure 🙂
And here’s Gladys laying it out straight-wise…
I am watching G.Galloway promote independence only he doesn’t realise it!
Alba -punching above my weight and enjoying my clout on the world stage.
I have had some hilarious encounters with people on american and canadian specialist websites – the bile and resent from our neighbours in Nether Scotland – ie England – is petulant and childish whenever independence is mentioned – and this is meant to be a site dedicated to philosophy.
I just wanted to share this very interesting article, which was published on 10th Oct and may already have been linked on here, but I’m sharing it again anyway: http://www.scottishreview.net/GerryHassan124.shtml
James Naughtie will be a presenter for BBC Scotland 2 days per week during the run-up to the referendum, because apparently no-one up here is well known or high profile enough.
These are some of my favourite bits from Gerry Hassan’s post at Scottish Review in which he gives Mr Naughtie some advice about how Scotland has changed since he left for London in 1977, there are loads more at the link.
A memo to
James Naughtie on
his return to Scotland
4. There is a problem with how the British government comprehends and doesn’t comprehend modern Scotland. They occasionally get Scotland, but more often they don’t, or just plain forget us. They don’t think Scottish independence is a serious threat to the union, and when they refer to ‘the referendum’ and ‘sovereignty debate’ they aren’t talking about Scotland, but about the UK and Europe.
9. There are a few Lib Dems left. Rumour has it one of them claims to be Secretary of State for Scotland. That is no longer a proper full-time job.
22. Whatever happens in 2014 something profound and far-reaching is occurring. Irrespective of the SNP’s qualified version of independence, until May 2011, large parts of Scotland and the UK establishment just didn’t take any of this seriously. Many of the latter are still in a state of deep denial, but irrespective of the result in September 2014, the idea of independence is being normalised in Scottish society. And that means that Scotland and the UK will never be the same again.
This is the link to another article at the Review by Kenneth Roy on the same subject : http://www.scottishreview.net/KennethRoy101b.shtml
Here in Frankfurt we have Central European Time, we’re an hour ahead of Bath-time (!).
As it’s now the 27 Oct. here and I’m not expecting the Rev to be knocking on the Pearly Gates during the next 1/2 hour
HAPPY BIRTHDAY AND ALL THE BEST FOR YOUR LAST YEAR AS A UK SUBJECT
(My Mums birthday ist also the 27th but she passed away a few years ago so it means something to me too).
Twenty 14:
First person to wish the Rev happy Birthday at midnight gets a free ( special ) badge, some cake and a Wings car sticker – f your happy about that Rev – got to be your 50th for sure
Just seen this – sorry. Don’t include me, I’m just a furrine with a bad sense of timing 😉
Ayone think this might have just been a wee bitty tactlessly expressed?
http://news.sky.com/story/1160209/prince-believes-england-can-inspire-nation
C’mon princely advisers: we all know what you ment by Team GB, but maybe make the links a tiny bit less explicit, OK?
Sunday Times lead story tomorrow “Union dirty tricks dupe Miliband”. 1000 Unite emails passed to the police. Hmmm.
twenty14 – do we wish him Happy Birthday after midnight? Or, do the clocks go back at midnight and we need to post our felicitations an hour later?
TJenny:
Felicity needs to get up at 3 am to turn the clock back to 2 am if I remember correctly
First person to wish the Rev happy Birthday at midnight gets a free ( special ) badge, some cake and a Wings car sticker
Oh God, this is going to be like one of these e-bay auctions…
Happy Birthday to Stu!!
Happy Birthday to Stu!!
Happy Birthday dear Rev.
A free Scotland wished for you!
Happy Birthday Rev.
Hope the mad rush doesn’t crash the site
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, REV STU!
Bollocks! Well done southernscot
Happy Birthday Stuart – don’t look a day over 25 😉
@kininvie-
‘C’mon princely advisers…’
Question – how well has this dude aged? Eh?
@kininvie
I beg your pardon?
🙂
Well BBC has just announced this is the news at midnight, I think we can maybe trust them on this, maybe? So:
HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Rev 🙂
Will give you a few pennies for birthday box of Maltesers and Twixes. Maybe there should be a combination of these – fingers of Malteser – a Twixteaser?
Kininvie – Unfortunately this is not unique as unfortunately both Prince William and Prince Harry have somehow forgotten that they are princes to a monarchy that represents all of the parts of Britain and specifically the Kingdom of Scotland as well as England. There is an apparent ignorance that their grandmother is also titled Queen Elisabeth I of Scots.
We have had both Princes in various England Rugby or Football strips, supporting England teams , which of course they are welcome to do. But the largesse in support for all things English doesn’t extend beyond the English border, in doing the same for Scotland. Ask yourself this , when was the last time you saw either in a Scotland strip or attending a Scotland game supporting Scotland at ANY sport?
It seems to be a general taken that the Royal family, especially the younger ranks are English only royalty.
Quite rightly the monarchy status would not change once Scotland ends the political union. But if these princes along with the other young royals continue on the current path, any future debate of retaining the monarchy in an independent Scotland will be a difficult sell.
@ Midgehunter – Here in Aberdeen its COT [Chuckin Oot Time] and nearly time for 1st breakfast.
Just got hame and wifey sez ‘Whaur’s the feckin heatin money ya blootered b’strd?’
‘Oh mah quine ah spent it oan a cake and candles fir the Rev’s birthday’.
She sez, ‘Feck aff, an spread yir Wings Over Scotland outa that windae as yir leavin’
So am in the lobby of the hospital wishing the Rev…..Happy Birthday
@ Desimond
That 11.54 timestamp’s a bit of a giveaway, no? 🙂
clochoderic, What do you thing JL is doing in that picture, could it be that the NO lot now have a mutual recognition signal for those times they think they might be in the presence of one of their own, like the old mason’s handshake?
@kinivie
@ DesimondThat 11.54 timestamp’s a bit of a giveaway, no?
Thats your timestamp for one above me!!!
timestamps come after the text…look below…
by the way Happy Birthday Stuart, have a great Sunday, despite the pending storm were expecting 😉
In true democratic style – we’ll wait for the chimes of big ben and then sing ” for he’s a jolly good fellow ” , followed by Land of Hope and Glory. a rendition of Jerusalem and a finale of ” there Always be an England ” now how’s that for a non biased song collection 🙂
Radio five live.
MOD (politics) Red Hand of Ulster stuff. Pictures of soldiers doing silly things. With a union Jack.
Oh! Edwina is on as a guest.
@Edward,
Don’t forget Princess Anne, who has consistently supported Scotland, and shivered her way through more Scottish defeats at Murrayfield than most of us…
She’s not had an easy life, royal though she is.
If we are going to have a monarchy, I’d like to see an elective monarchy, with the crown being in the gift of the Scottish people, as it once was. And the Princess Royal would get a vote from me….
Rev Stu – will wait another 45mins before I bid you Happy B’day in accordance with british summertime
@Desimond,
*shamefaced thingy* OK, you win (curses, curses)
Here is the story
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2477639/SHAMEFUL-Fury-UK-soldiers-investigated-performing-Nazi-style-salute-Helmand.html
Sorry rev cant get arch to work server down.
@kinivie
No worries. After turning up too late for the badge fest at the Rally I’d do anything!
Knowing my luck someone from Labour sent in a Postal Happy Birthday wish at 00:00:001 to claim the prize
Have a splendid day. Rev.
@kinivie – I did say ‘younger’ royals 😉
Going to bed – so happy Birthday to the man in the crowd
CynicalHighlander,
It would appear that George’s “Bradford Spring” has turned into something of a “Bradford Slinky”.
I expect he’ll ditch the people of Bradford and look for a piece at someone else’s door!
It’s what he does best 🙂
Respect in disarray
Herald front page for today is a stoater – looks like some interesting reading. http://twitpic.com/divgbt
I’ve just bought my last copy of The Guardian. They can no longer be taken seriously as far as matters north of London are concerned. They are lower than vermin.
By the way, Happy Birthday Rev. Stay strong, positive and true.
All will be well.
Many happy returns Stu!
kininvie – absolutely agreed – she is the perfect alternative to the grasping and self- publicist the Duke of Rothesay in the event of Brenda falling off the perch. As a long-time republican i am increasingly relaxed about a royal family in an independent Scotland.
Her successors would be unacceptable to a sceptical scottish public and so the notion of a crown without a monarch – I think Lallans’ posted about it – gains support.
Interesting story over at the Grauniad.
Coalition accused as south of England scoops regeneration cash
Ministers accused of fuelling economic division as more than a third of growth fund is spent on London and south-east.
Why does this sound so familiar? Will they ever learn?
Aw the best Stu, hope you have a crackin day….
Some Unionist economic Professors (paid by Scottish taxpayers money) seem to have entirely missed the point. Poverty in Scotland is the cost of Westminster Gov. Without illegal wars,Trident, redundant weaponry (ie paid for but never delivered or used- a £40Billion+++ black hole), or fraud and tax evasion in the City of London. A Law unto it’s self. Plus 24 hour drinking Laws. All of which people in Scotland have no control over. Out voted 10 to 1in Westminster.
Scotland would be in total deficit, with excess to create jobs, and end food and fuel poverty.
Scotland raises £60Billion in tax revenues, which covers all Scotland’s costs with funds to spare.
More taxes are raised in Scotland (pro rata) than th rest of the UK. Total revenues raised in the UK. £610Billion (including £40Billion Royal Mail Pension sell off? + £6Billion BoE scam).
Westminster spends £720Billion (public spending) £20Billion more. There has been no reduction in the deficit. (Without Royal Mail Pension scam)
Scotland has to make £4Billion debt repayments on £10Billion of debt passed on to Scotland by Westminstef economic policies, filed under Scottish spending but never spent in or by Scotland. The loan repayments are at 40%. Lending rates are at -1%. So much for the BoE.
Scotland gets back a Block Grant of £27Billion + £17Billion in Pensions/Benefits (Scottish taxpayers pay for gov OAP’s and welfare benefits.
Without illegal wars, tax evasion/asking fraud through the City of London, Trident redundant weaponry. Scotland would had £Billion in surplus at it’s disposal to grow the Scottish economy and tackle poverty instead of being saddled with Westminster mass debt because of bad foreign, social and economic policies. The UK, except the US, has had the worse fiscal policies in the world since 1928, The UK has one of the bigges debts in the world £1trn, except the US. The debt ceiling in the US has just been raised to $18trn from €16trn
Unionist Professors should take account of the affect of Westminster fiscal, social and foreign policy (over which Scotland has little control) and the effect that has on the Scottish economy before holding the Scottish gov (with limited powers) responsible for years poverty and deprivation in Scotland. Fifty years of Labour.
The Scottish Oil sector taxed at 61% – £12Billion (80% total), while multinationals through the City of London tax evade and pay no tax. Wall Street calls it ‘taking the tax home’. The ‘special relationship’. Mass surveillance. The parts of the sectarian Army supported by the Union and paid for by All UK taxpayers. The Union divide.
The are reports that the Principality of London budget will not be receiving any cuts, already out spending more than the rest of the UK.
Thatcher spent the off- shored Scottish Oil tax revenues, building Canary Wharf, Tilbury Docks, the roads networks in London S/E, the centralist transport policies, the deregulation of the Banking sector,the demutualisation of the Building Society (owned by their members) sold off Utilities, shut the Coal mines. Now the UK has to import more expensive Gas. Build more expensive, dangerous and highly subsidised Nuclear Plants beside the sea. Lower taxes in London S/E to buy votes in a giant Pozzi scheme to enrich Tory Bankers who fund the Tory Party. The ConDem have not cut the deficit, they have transferred wealth from the poorer to the richer.
Themselves.
The unregulated British Press want ‘freedom of speech’ for themselves but want to censored others.