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That’ll be yer Vow, then

Posted on April 15, 2015 by

The Daily Record gets up high on its outrage horse this morning with a front-page story titled “Double-crossed on devo”, echoing Jim Murphy’s claim of yesterday that the Tories’ manifesto pledge on “English votes for English laws” is a “betrayal” of the “Vow” signed by the three UK party leaders before the independence referendum.

doublecross

Unsurprisingly, the Record gives rather less prominence to the news that the Vow isn’t worth the fake parchment it wasn’t written on than it did to repeatedly hyping it up and then proclaiming that it had already been delivered.

But there’s a twist.

Because on the inside pages the paper desperately tries to turn the story to Labour’s advantage. Firstly by selling it as a stab in the back by the dastardly Tories – even though the Vow said absolutely nothing about preserving the right of Scottish MPs to vote on English taxes.

And secondly by claiming that the “betrayal” provides a way for “an English majority” to end the Barnett Formula and deprive Scotland of billions of pounds, building on Labour’s current last-gasp scare tactic of saying that SNP MPs voting for such a move (in the guise of Full Fiscal Autonomy) would cause plagues and apocalypse and slashed pensions in Scotland.

barnettblow

Alert readers will have noticed several things wrong with that argument. One is that the Tories expressly say in the Record’s piece that they aren’t going to end Barnett. Another is that a vote on slashing Scotland’s budget clearly WOULDN’T be an English-only matter, and there’d be no conceivable way of excluding Scottish MPs from it. And that brings us to the real point.

Because “an English majority” could have ended Barnett at any time in the last five years. By voting No in the referendum, Scotland, with its 59 MPs, chose to put itself at the mercy of England’s 533 MPs forever.

The current Conservative/Lib Dem coalition has 351 non-Scottish MPs, a comfortable Commons majority. It could have decided to kill Barnett without changing a single law, even if every Scottish MP (including its own) had voted against. The same has been true of almost every UK government of the last 100 years.

So Cameron’s “double cross” in fact alters nothing. Any threat to Scotland’s finances is ever-present, and is entirely the result of the No vote the Daily Record fought so hard for. Readers may feel that the paper has a nerve suddenly whining about it now.

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  1. 15 04 15 08:44

    That'll be yer Vow, then | Politics Scotland | ...
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  2. 15 04 15 09:32

    That’ll be yer Vow, then | Speymouth
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115 to “That’ll be yer Vow, then”

  1. Stu Wilson
    Ignored
    says:

    I love how Jim says this is a betrayal of the Vow. Yet head office insist it was nothing to do with them…

  2. handclapping
    Ignored
    says:

    Nerve? Nah, its lifeless. Like its best buddy SLab, its a Norwegian blue only given a semblance of life as its feet are nailed to the perch by its Sudoku and habit

  3. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Rev wrote:
    “By voting No in the referendum, Scotland, with its 59 MPs, chose to put itself at the mercy of England’s 533 MPs forever.”

    And there, ladies & gentlemen, is the No1 reason why independence for Scotland is so important. We must be masters of our own destiny.
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B0DgheCIgAAVYJ4.jpg

  4. Calgacus
    Ignored
    says:

    How now Brown vow? I hope the No voters are as angry as the Yes voters over this gross betrayal.

  5. Lollysmum
    Ignored
    says:

    Hypocrisy reigns supreme at the Daily Record once again! Having done all within its power to get people to vote NO, the DR is now grasping at straws to manufacture an argument that doesn’t even exist let alone stand up to scrutiny. They do like blaming others for their own mistakes , don’t they. So much for what is supposed to be integrity within the fourth estate.

    They just make it up as they go along. Just like Labour really & never gonna change. Only solution to DR machinations is don’t buy it.

  6. auldmcintosh
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah weel ah that’s what comes fae luggen tae the fear creeps, now yee ken whit it is goin tae Get Better some time

  7. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Just another bunch of cynical lying gits, led by a twit called Torquil.

  8. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    No matter how dysfunctional Labour is, the Daily Record, along with the Herald, Scotsman and Telegraph still what to foist them on us.

    The problem for me is that it is ‘us’ who man the Daily Record, no matter where the Editor lives. ‘We’ are the ones in the offices etc.

    These papers and Labour are chained together now, they share the responsibility and sink together.

  9. John Fern
    Ignored
    says:

    We should triple lock this excuse for a no news
    Paper in a big dark warehouse never to see the light of day again.

  10. Jim Stirling
    Ignored
    says:

    It is damn lucky for the DR that its remaining readership are either seriously gullible, and/or very uninformed {which as DR readers is rather expected}.

  11. Tam Jardine
    Ignored
    says:

    I believe the status of Scottish MPS remaining unchanged was signed off by Ruth Davidson and David Cameron in the previous vow. “…While retaining full representation for Scotland in the UK parliament”

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/nick-clegg-signs-a-pledge/

  12. Darren Docherty
    Ignored
    says:

    The Daily Record? Is that still going?

  13. Macart
    Ignored
    says:

    Well who knew?

    Still, we’d like to thank the Record for letting us know how devious and treacherous Westminster politicians are from the heart of our bottoms.

    Just to be clear though… The Vow? NOT DELIVERED!

  14. Patrick Roden
    Ignored
    says:

    I think there’s something very important at the heart of this:

    The Labour party along with the Daily Record, created a ‘Vow’ that was sold to Scots, as a cast iron guarantee, for, as the BBC said “lets call it Devo Max”

    So Labour told Scotland that it could trust the Tory Party.
    Labour told Scotland that the present Tory Cabinet, the people who are in power and therefore the people who would deliver this ‘Devo-Max’ could be relied on by Scots.
    The Labour Party told Scotland that no matter our fears, that they had negotiated with the coalition leaders and could offer Scotland a signed Vow, and that we could rely on this.

    So any claim now by Jim Murphy that the Tories can’t be trusted, or that the Tories would be a disaster for Scotland, should be met with the question: why then did the Labour Party tell Scots, that we could trust the Conservative and Lib Dem Coalition to deliver the powers that we were promised?

  15. Dr Ew
    Ignored
    says:

    Not only is the argument embarrassing, there’s a mortifying howler in the Record’s headline: “Barnett blow’s (sic) £7.6billion bill”.

    Not a possessive, and not a contraction of “blow is” so why the apostrophe?

    I know they’re losing money hand over fist but surely they can afford subs with a grasp of basic grammar and punctuation!

  16. TD
    Ignored
    says:

    I should be used to this sort of thing by now, but I still feel outrage at the misinformation and lies put out by not only the Record but the other mainstream media outlets as well. How dare they try to take us for suckers. And thank goodness we have Stu standing up to them and getting more and more people to see the light. And thank goodness also that the Record’s circulation figures are in decline – the demise of the Record will be a day for celebration.

  17. Training Day
    Ignored
    says:

    As the Rev notes, the Record claimed some time ago that the Vow had already been delivered.

    And yet not one single road sign near me shows any sign of change.

    Have the SNP blown this historic opportunity? Torcuil should investigate..

  18. caz-m
    Ignored
    says:

    Stoker 8.33am

    Love the “Boycott the Record” poster. Well worth printing off.

    Also folks, if you accidentally touch a Daily Record, you are advised to get disinfected as soon as possible.

    If you are going to rip one up and through it in the nearest bin, then PLEASE take all measures possible to protect your skin. Avoid direct contact with any Daily Record.

    You have been warned!

  19. Albaman
    Ignored
    says:

    Who’s the reporter, David Clegg?, I do not buy that down market tabloid, but form seeing reports of thier news stories on line,he fits into that type of story.
    Mind you, there are others just as willing to bend the truth to suit Labour.

  20. Now's the Hour
    Ignored
    says:

    Ah well, that’s another few thousand off the Record’s circulation. Torcuil seems to have no grasp of self-irony.

  21. BrianW
    Ignored
    says:

    Scotland’s Champion.. You’re aving a laff..

  22. David
    Ignored
    says:

    By writing “The Vow” the not so admirable Crichton and his rag of a paper just lubed themselves up in preparation of the big red, white and blue boaby sticking it to them; and now it has they have the temerity to complain about it.

    How can any journalist, worthy of the name, not have the foresight to see what was so blindingly obvious to everyone else?

  23. Capella
    Ignored
    says:

    How many £7.6 b black holes are there? That’s two this week and it’s only Wednesday.

  24. Albaman
    Ignored
    says:

    Nope, I was wrong just checked the story via the B.B.C.s Scottish web pages ” what the papers say”, and it was Torcuil Crichton no less, still, there is little difference between the lot of them.

  25. John H.
    Ignored
    says:

    This is obviously aimed at any wavering pensioners out there. The kind of person who has always believed everything the Daily Record and the BBC tell them.

  26. Marie clark
    Ignored
    says:

    Well, I’ll say one thing for the record, it disnae lack fur cheek.

    Oh the irony. Vote no, we’re better together, the Vow and the Vow delivered. Now they are moaning about the tories, who you stood with, shoulder to shoulder, and led a lot of people up the garden path.

    You’re a bloody bunch of hypocrites and deserve all that you get.Don’t come moaning to we yes voters, we did try to tell you at the time. But we were derided, shouted down at every turn. Mind you that is a big part of the reason that your beloved Labour party in Scotland is in such a parlous state today.

    I think James Francis Murphy BA Politics (failed) getting a very public kick up the bahookie on Monday has unhinged them. It’s kind of blown them off course, still I’m sure that there will be another lie and smear coming along any minute now.

    Karma is a bitch, and it’s coming to a place near you. SOON.

  27. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    Redemption is but a few key strokes away for the Daily Record (and other media outlets).

    They only need to advise voting SNP now, suggest voting pro Indy in 2016, promote the idea of indyref2 when circumstances call for it, and then support independence.

    I certainly won’t hold my breath!

  28. One_Scot
    Ignored
    says:

    Fact, Jim Murphy is a liar, and fact, the Daily Record is full of lies.

    I can’t really add any more to that.

  29. ronnie anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    We VOW to thee O Recordee yer teas OOT.

  30. Calum McMath
    Ignored
    says:

    “the record” is like the labour party, it has no fundamental reason to exist, absolutely nothing it supports or promotes other than itself and labour in Sotland. It does not stand up for poor or disadvantaged in society, same as labour.

    “The Record” used to be a campaigning paper, that honourable stance went years and years ago, in that respect its moral compass and decline has paralleled that of labour.

    “the record ” today is down market of the sun and is lecturing and hectoring towards some of its readership and many in the population that support Scottish independence.

    brown and labour used “the record” as the vehicle to deliver the vow, do you believe Cameron and clegg had ever heard of it beforehand? It merely served the joint enterprise of the Tory and labour in the NO coalition.

    “the record” is staffed by journalists and editorial staff who can’t make it ielesewhere and are actively presiding over the papers demise – leave them to it.

  31. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    It is an admission that nothing in the Vow was actually written in stone,as was sold to the people of Scotland by this apology for a newspaper.
    More importantly it is the opening salvo in the realisation that EVEL,utterly disenfranchises the nation of Scotland in a way which is more evident than it has ever been.
    Having sold the lie, they now go into defensive mode seeking to promote the Labour party as the ones posting the warning,and getting ready to save the day for Scotland.
    They will claim everyone was misled or betrayed,and will fight the corner of “Scotlands champion” .
    Cameron has indeed played a blinder,and with some deft footwork has sidelined Labour in Scotland.
    The only route to redemption for Labour and the media including the Record, now
    lies in supporting independence for Scotland,.Nothing else will suffice.Betrayal lives long in folks memory in these parts,a nd I for one shall not forget.

  32. Naina Tal
    Ignored
    says:

    John H 9.16
    “Wavering Pensioners”. Stoap it! Due to get ma pension in a few months. Diz that mean ah become a waverer? You forget that all the protesters of the sixties are noo pensioners.

    Lots o aulder folks ah ken are dyed in the wool yessers. Dinnae generalise like that. Please. You might turn some o them the other wey!

  33. Alcedo Atthis
    Ignored
    says:

    Good point, Rev. Stuart Campbell, and we should never, ever, forget the Daily Record’s shameful role in the deception that was called a Vow.

    Scottish Labour and other unionists, like the Daily Record, supported all that too. In other words, they voted to keep Scotland in a compromised position that exposes us to cuts and decisions that we have no control over.

    Scottish Labour and the rest are in no position to complain about any of this — they sold us down the river and now they are complaining about the state of the boat.

  34. Milady de Winter
    Ignored
    says:

    Loving all the signs popping up all over Glasgow this week..”The vow was a lie” and “How now Brown’s vow” etc. Maybe they have forced Daily Rancid to point the finger anywhere other than at them/SLab!

    O/T I see the Herald has a story about Jim needing police protection with Willie and Ruth complaining they don’t get any! Maybe Willie for one should pay his last bill. It’s like not paying Scottish Power and then complaining you cannae boil a kettle.

  35. Neil Orr
    Ignored
    says:

    Here’s a thing I do. At any garage or shop, pick up several copies of The National or, if a Sunday, the Herald. Place the extra copies over the pile of ‘Scotlands Champion’ and buy one National left over. I hope this achieves two things. Blocks the record from view and prevents sales, and forces record readers to at least absorb an alternative headline.

  36. K1
    Ignored
    says:

    Is the Record about to ‘set up’ it’s fading readership for another ‘big save’ from Murphy/Brown et al?

    We knew this Vow pish was dead in the water when Brown played this ‘betrayal’ card back in September in the HoC’s during the EVEL debate after the Referendum.

    Where was this ‘headline’ from the Record then?

    Why now?

    What’s the angle, these bastards don’t accidentally put anything on their front pages unless it’s a ‘sell’ of some sort.

    Desperate times for the branch office of the Labour party in Scotland require Mr Foote to step in.

    Watch out over the next three weeks as all the stops are pulled out.

  37. arthur thomson
    Ignored
    says:

    I have no problem with EVEL. I do have a problem with the notion that rUK is subsidising Scotland and should continue to do so. The DR is utterly without principle and promotes a lack of principle in its readers.

  38. Naina Tal
    Ignored
    says:

    Has “thrush” Murphy (As he was known at uni) seen another egg? Is that the reason for Police protection? If that is true?
    Remember egg day, where he was “taking advice on security” from the polis? As I remember, the polis ended up telling him tae get loast.

    Poor me! Poor poor pitiful me. (Warren Zevon).

  39. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    Record trying to prop up the undead Murph.

  40. Mike
    Ignored
    says:

    BrianW says:

    15 April, 2015 at 9:07 am

    to be fair Brian, the record Claims to be Scotland’s champion, it doesn’t say what at. At the moment it could easily claim to be the champion, devomax,federalisation and home rule denier.

  41. Chitterinlicht
    Ignored
    says:

    Succinctly and very well put.

  42. Macca73
    Ignored
    says:

    The Record’s a shameful paper and has now attached itself so hard and fast to Labour’s hip that it’s in tatters!

    It has a duty of care to report the facts to people and instead decided to print the largest lie of them all without ever questioning it so hell mend them!

  43. Desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    1: Watching Murphy clumsily try to shoehorn “and this shows SNP = bad” into a response on this Tory manifesto item was pitiful on STV news

    2: Is it still £7.6b…this including VAT miscalculation?

    3: This is all an excuse to get Gordon Brown ranting “NO SNP” on a stage on the BBC again isnt it?

  44. Chitterinlicht
    Ignored
    says:

    Any time anybody from Scottish labour says anything i want to say ‘Thank you, but can i speak directly to the manager please?’

  45. fred blogger
    Ignored
    says:

    slab fought tooth and nail to deprive scotland of her indy, now they imply it’s all the nasty tories fault.

  46. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Aye,this “vote SNP get Tories” mantra fair gets the old hackles up when they would have been as dead as the dinosaurs in Scotland if there had been a no vote. Cheers proud scotch men and women.

  47. Joemcg
    Ignored
    says:

    Ha! A yes vote^

  48. Alastair
    Ignored
    says:

    Letter from Helensburgh – Post scrapping of Trident

    The town is abuzz with the opening of the Andy Murray Tennis Academy and training Centre. Everyone is so excited to have Andy, Djokavic and the superstars playing in our own ATP event.
    Popped into the Drouthy Neebors for a pint. Usual friendly reception form Tam the barman. “Pint Al” that would be grand. “the usual” yip Dom Perignon “ “bottle or draft”
    Jock is in. He is a supporter of Helensburgh Thistle junior football team. He tells me they are now 30 point clearing in their section the Scottish Junior football league and secured a place in the Scottish Football League 2 . He is still excited about their 12 – 0 beating of Celtic in the Scottish Cup final. He says Gordon is still not sure of his best striker combination. Should it be Messi and Rooney or with the recent signing of Van Persie will it cause difficulties in selection.
    Just got a text and I have to nip in the Harrods convenience store on the High Street on the way home. We are out of smoked salmon again.
    Jock and family enjoyed Easter. They had an Easter egg hunt for the bairns. I asked if they were milk or dark chocolate. He said “na Faberge” .
    Everyone is ducking and diving, as our annual “no nuke” payment is due. Jock was really pissed off last year as they dropped the payment in on the 5th April. Now with him ,the wife and 3 kids they got £500,000 but it left no time to get tax efficiency and he paid £105,000 in tax. Really seriously pissed off. But he has taken advise and says ‘ most of this years money is “going offshore”
    Monte Carlo I asked “na Lewis, they’ll never find it there.

  49. Shagpile
    Ignored
    says:

    The other side of this “vow”, of course was the “pulling and sharing” of resources which underpinned it all. This is why Longanet is closing early, it did not have a level playing field to compete on.

  50. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Article in the Herald suggests police are protecting Murphy on the campaign trail. No doubt he will advise at some point, that cybernats are threatening him. He will play the martyr card soon.

    Maybe if he stopped lying to Scotland, protesters wouldn’t be so allegedly hostile.

    Although I have no doubt they were probably just shouting liar at him and he ran to mammy!

  51. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    So, in the Herald article that Murphy has police protection, if true, did they detail any incidents?

  52. SquareHaggis
    Ignored
    says:

    Aaaaaw, nae free mulk 🙁

  53. Thomas William Dunlop
    Ignored
    says:

    How now, Brown Vow?

  54. Bob Mack
    Ignored
    says:

    The Record are going to try and promote the idea that a Scottish party cannot change this scrapping of the Barnett formula.Instead they will infer that to protect Scotland,it will require a Party that covers the whole of the U.K. including having English MP,’s who would be sympathetic to their Scots comrades.
    Nice try,but at the end of the day there is only one sure route to looking after ourselves.

  55. desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    Am I the only one picturing Murray (Gamesa)Foote seeing this and impersonating Vic & Bob shouting “You/Stu wouldnt let it lie!”

  56. Almannysbunnet
    Ignored
    says:

    @Naina Tal says:
    15 April, 2015 at 9:38 am
    @John H 9.16
    “Wavering Pensioners”. Stoap it! Due to get ma pension in a few months. Diz that mean ah become a waverer?
    I’m afraid that’s your destiny. As soon as you become a pensioner you start wavering, get struck down with Murphyitis, lose all your internet skills built up over 35 years and are easily led astray by feels and numpties. Poor Alex Salmond has only 5 years of useful life left before he reaches pensionable age. We are doomed I tell ye! Young punks! They think MS Dos is a Spanish Marks and Spencers 🙂

  57. Muscleguy
    Ignored
    says:

    @Dr Ew

    I initially thought that but it is a possessive. They are claiming that the £7.2b belongs to the Barnett Blow. A clearer construction would be ‘Barnett’s £7.2b Bill Blow’.

    You were led astray by the headline writer’s craft.

    You can of course argue about how Barnett Blow can possess anything but the construction is, just, grammatical if not advisable.

  58. Wee Alex
    Ignored
    says:

    Just listened to the anti Alex Salmond broadcast on Radio 5.

    It was meant to be Clegg’s manifesto launch but he spent most of the time slagging Alex Salmond!

    Boy are they worried.

  59. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Desimond says:
    15 April, 2015 at 10:09 am

    3: This is all an excuse to get Gordon Brown ranting “NO SNP” on a stage on the BBC again isnt it?

    It’s only a matter of time before Gordzilla rises from the depths.

    The only thing holding them back, is they are still unsure when best to set him loose. It’s their last card and they don’t want to waste it. Too soon and the effect wears off. Too late and…… I expect he will surface sometime late next week or early the following week. If he appears before then, it is a clear indication that their panic level is already through the roof.

  60. seanair
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t suppose the MSM would ask Lord Smith for a view on the dissection of his report.
    Perhaps the National could have a go and Martin Hannan would be the man to do it.

  61. think again
    Ignored
    says:

    It`s just my impression -feel free to correct me – but since I no longer buy the Record and rely on seeing other people`s copies and a quick scan in the shops but they seem to have toned down the amount and the tone of political items, especially on the front page.

    The National on the other hand has a much more openly political front page these days. Perhaps the Record is re-positioning itself for a post Labour wipe-out in Scotland and since, at the end of the day, circulation is what matters they are wakening up to the new reality of Scottish politics.

    In the meantime, for those of you who like word games try this, vow to lie in three moves. Apologies – to Ruth – for all the X`s before the 7th, they are some of the postal votes which I have been able to tally.

    VOW
    XXX
    XXX
    LIE

  62. Iron Man
    Ignored
    says:

    Is there anyone who still believes the keech printed in that rag?
    Is there anyone who still believes the keech that Murphy speaks?
    Is there anyone who still believes the keech that comes from Westminster?
    Och, it’s just all keech.

  63. proudscot
    Ignored
    says:

    Slightly off topic but still on the subject of the misinformation of the voting public by the likes of the press and BBC, this morning’s phone in had UKIP’s David Coburn in the “hot seat” answering listeners’ queries.

    It turned out to be mainly “hot air” as this representative of his racist party demonstrated his very weak grasp of economic facts and figures, having to be regularly corrected by the presenter on the difference between his assertions and the contrasting reality. He also had to be pulled up several times as he side-tracked into anti-SNP and anti-Salmond rants, none of which relied on actual facts or figures.

    Finally on the subject of the misinformation regularly fed to the public, one listener phoned in with a diatribe against the SNP, which contained the allegation that they had “wasted millions on the trams in Edinburgh”! Obviously ignorant of the fact that the trams project was forced through AGAINST the wishes of the then minority SNP Government by the other three Unionist parties, in an act of combined spite and revenge for the SNP’s historic win in the 2007 election.

  64. Stoker
    Ignored
    says:

    Don’t you just love the power of modern media, aka the internet.

    The filthy DR rag exposed for what it is AND the big bully DimJim
    screaming for police protection from honest citizens who might just want to voice their truthful opinions at him.

    I sincerely hope the police have genuine cause to be offering special protection to big bully DimJim at the taxpayers expense while real crimes are being committed and going undetected.

    Very brave picking on lone females within the safety of a tv studio, aren’t you Dimbo, but the minute you have to leave that studio you become a quivering sack-o-shite.

    Stop lying to the Scottish electorate and you’ll not have to face their angry responses, aka the truth.

  65. keith
    Ignored
    says:

    slightly O/T Kezia sent me an email asking for my opinion but was only really interested if I will or might be voting labour. They also ask if you want to volunteer to help out for the next 3 weeks
    http://www.scottishlabour.org.uk/page/m/668555e0/50e17a1d/3f114762/395236f6/967169228/VEsE/

  66. Desimond
    Ignored
    says:

    @Luigi

    Its getting to the stage where Gordon Brown is as scary to us as the Monsters in Monsters Inc are to the little girl.

    Och just gies a hug Gordon ya sad old duffer!

  67. Flower of Scotland
    Ignored
    says:

    Thanks for this Stu! Not many of us buy the Record anymore ( I never did ), so we would have missed the implications of this.

    As Ming Campbell said in a letter to me, from the House of Commons just after Sept.18th,
    ” There is no vow”!

  68. Terry
    Ignored
    says:

    There’s a fly in the ointment with Barnett. If its scrapped for Scotland it no doubt will be scrapped for Wales and northern Ireland. The unionists won’t give a stuff about Wales – lets face it they don’t as it is. But northern Ireland will be tricky. Currently they receive more under Barnett than Scotland and some of that is down to extra security issues above and beyond the local economy. If they cut NIs funding then on top of present austerity who knows what could happen. Nobody would want to see a return to any trouble – least of all Westminster because it would cost money. And let’s face it that’s all they care about – and strutting around on the world stage.

  69. Strawdog
    Ignored
    says:

    Are politics in the 21st century more complicated?
    One benefit amongst many that Independence would bring is less complexity , more simplicity , without all the Westminster garbage gumming up the works. Can’t wait !

  70. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Hate to shine my own trumpet –

    Never bought the Daily Record. My Dad wouldn’t have it in the house even 30 years ago. He said it was a Labour rag. He is a lifelong member of the SNP. I joined when I was 16 and never waivered.

    My dad is from Maryhill 3rd generation Scot. Ancestors from Eire ,catholic but chose Partick Thistle. All his mates chose Celtic. I chose Partick as I hated the old firm from an early age.

    Detested the Royal family from the age of 7. I remember my mum liked the royals as most females did in those days. I got dragged to her visit to George square. My dad insisted I waived a lion rampant if she was forcing me to go. I became a republican shortly after that. I never understood why Scots wanted to be British.

    Anyway you can see where my poitics were formed!

  71. De Valera
    Ignored
    says:

    Why are they complaining? If you wanted to remain in the UK surely you have to accept all that comes with it.

  72. hopper69
    Ignored
    says:

    Neil Orr@9.45
    Been doing that too where possible.

    Its very difficult at the BP garage in Dalgety Bay as the pro-indy papers are inside and tucked under the bottom shelf.I pull them out so they are as visible as possible.

    At one point they were outside with the msm but that’s changed.

    Get my paper there to keep up sales and so I can pull out the papers,but stopped buying feul there when the indy papers were moved inside.

  73. Jim Mitchell
    Ignored
    says:

    Could be that Labour had something like this in mind all along as their excuse for weaseling out of the infamous vow!

    Same old, Blame the Tories to win support from Scottish mugs as in we are the only one’s who will stand up for you!

  74. Molly
    Ignored
    says:

    Proudscot,
    Did you notice ‘John from Aberdeen’ and his daily anti SNP rant ? He’s on the programme more often than Louise.

    Thought the woman about farming and the woman talking about HIV showed’Mr Coburn up for what he is.

    The joys of sitting in a dentist waiting room !

  75. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Desimond says:
    15 April, 2015 at 10:49 am

    @Luigi

    Its getting to the stage where Gordon Brown is as scary to us as the Monsters in Monsters Inc are to the little girl.

    Shhhhhhh! The BBC still think he is effective!

  76. heedtracker
    Ignored
    says:

    Vote SLab or else media over compensating just a tad. after the brave, nae courageous hero of UKOK turned out to be cluck cluck chicken. But what beautiful dreamy eyes creepy Jim has eh Glasgow Herald weirdos?

    https://archive.today/RRHt0

    https://archive.today/ZUgvc

    PS I love you Jim,

    Severin

  77. galamcennalath
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T-ish The Washington Post has a fair understanding of the situation …
    http://tinyurl.com/q7vvvhv

  78. jackie g
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T

    This makes my blood boil.

    Nick Clegg has said it is vital the Liberal Democrats are part of the next government to “stop it lurching off to the extremes”.

    He said the Lib Dems would “add a heart to a Conservative government and add a brain to a Labour one” by preventing excessive spending cuts or borrowing and would act as “a barrier between Nigel Farage and Alex Salmond and 10 Downing Street”.

  79. Brian Powell
    Ignored
    says:

    Even if anyone took the DR rant at face value, it reinforces that we are in the hands of Westminster. The Tories will always be there, which for some inexplicable reason Labour didn’t realise.

  80. sunshine
    Ignored
    says:

    I thought Mr Smith fae Kelvin promised to come roaring out against anyone or anything that messed with his plans.
    Where are you Smithy?

  81. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Yep. Most of us here take Gordon Brown for the useless idiot he clearly is. However, he does, amazingly, still have a degree of influence on the older, vulnerable Labour supporters. Which is why he will almost certainly make a reappearance sometime soon.

    Brace yourselves for one last, mighty roar.

  82. Luigi
    Ignored
    says:

    Coming soon:

    Gordzilla’s Last Stand:

    “Penshuns! Penshuns! SNP bad! ROARRRRRR”

  83. Rob James
    Ignored
    says:

    If Slab were to be compared to the Titanic, then the DR is the rubber dinghy which they hope will rescue them. Unfortunately, it’s well and truly punctured.

  84. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Luigi – Yes Broon does have some influence on the older, less media savvy crew. However I think this is waining. Even older folk are starting to hate Broon for his betrayals, and empty Vows.

  85. JLT
    Ignored
    says:

    Scitland’s Champion …at delivering deceivement, a blinkered vision and the proof that it has a form of dementia. Aye …No one tells it as well as the Daily Record (snort!)

  86. ian
    Ignored
    says:

    Now that the Record has been betrayed i’m sure they will come clean as to who wrote the vow and the names of all the contributors.

  87. Triangular Ears
    Ignored
    says:

    I note a few people saying “How now, Brown’s vow”.

    I saw yesterday that somebody has put a big banner on a fence along the M8 at Kinning Park saying “How now, Brown’s ‘vow’?”. Anyone here? 🙂

  88. Cadogan Enright
    Ignored
    says:

    Presumably the Record has shareholders, and they must be concerned about how the current management is dragging their investment down the drain.
    At some stage, the Record or some other of the private ‘establishment’ MSM who don’t get financed by a licence fee are going to wonder if it is very clever to continue to demonize and the greater part of their potential Scottish readership and to be held in so much contempt by the thinking Scottish public.
    It would be beyond belief if we did not have more papers learning from the National experience – unless the shareholders are happy to finance on an ongoing basis loss-making propaganda rags with a dwindling audience. Could the Daily Herald defect next? or the Scotsman?
    If they have decided to learn nothing from their current editorial cum marketing policies, they must have extremely deep pockets – maybe we need to examine these folk with the deep pockets and try and figure out their motivation.

  89. Arabs for Independence
    Ignored
    says:

    Neil Orr @ 09:45

    Do that wherever and whenever I can too especially Edinburgh Airport and Tesco Dundee.

    Very childish but I feel I’m doing something good

  90. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    The newspapers in Scotland are all owned by the unionist mafia in Londonshire. The journalists have no say on the editorials, which come from on high. Hence there will be no change. It’s Union,Union all the way, from here to oblivion!

  91. Macca73
    Ignored
    says:

    I can just see it now “Gordon Brown speaking in front of a closed Labour audience said ..”

  92. John H.
    Ignored
    says:

    Naina Tal says:
    15 April, 2015 at 9:38 am.

    Of course I didn’t mean all pensioners. I’m a pensioner myself. 🙂

  93. Harry Shanks
    Ignored
    says:

    HOW NOW BROWN VOW is an absolute belter – I can just see that on billboards with a blow up of the “parchment”!!

    Ad agencies would have charged megabucks to come up with that line.

  94. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    Until it is clearly understood that there is no connection between the terms & titles used by the Establishment, and the actual facts, things will not get better.

    Their casual usage of many terms is the most common form of Establishment propaganda and by far the most successful that the Establishment has ever employed. This is due to the general public, including independence supporters, accepting the misuse of their language and adopting it as being normal and acceptable.

    You cannot form a united kingdom composed of a mixture of Kingdom and Countries and call it either a Kingdom or a country. It’s like mixing Apples and Oranges which forms a bowl of fruit but not neither a bowl of apples nor a bowl of oranges.

    So to return to the original point – what is the actual resultant of the introduction of devolved administrations?

    Quite simply it is a total mess and always going to be unworkable because the reality in no way matches the titles and terms used to describe it. They took a bipartite union between the two Kingdoms of Scotland and England but divided it not as two equally devolved Kingdoms but as four devolved countries.

    We are in truth now The Country of England over lording three devolved administrations. Now they are about to debar the Scots, Welsh and N.Irish from voting upon what that de facto parliament of the country of England deems their own English Matters. In short the so called United Kingdom is now really the country of England calling itself the United Kingdom.

    Again I remind you what The lone Tory MP from Scotland claimed, “The Treaty of Union Extinguished The Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as The United Kingdom”. He based this utter claptrap upon a UK Government funded study : –

    “Annex A – Opinion:
    Referendum on the Independence of Scotland – International Law Aspects.”

    Authored by Professor James Crawford SC and Professor Alan Boyle.

    There is the Truth : – The Establishment officially claims that the Westminster Parliament is really the Parliament of the Kingdom of England, (remember that kingdom contained both Wales & Ireland in 1706/7), and that the Kingdom of Scotland was Extinguished by the Treaty of Union 1706/7. How does it feel to be officially English?

  95. gordoz
    Ignored
    says:

    On the Vow –

    Gordon Brown will be along any minute now to sort this mess out. Just hold on folks. any minute now.

    He won’t bleat or bluff he’ll sort it you wait and see. It was his baby; he’sort it; he’s Labour Gold Standard’ and you know you can always trust Labour to deliver 🙂

  96. Auld Rock
    Ignored
    says:

    Forget all the above, far more important is the stark fact that their racing page can’t even forecast a decent winner anymore, LOL.

    Auld Rock

    PS Sorry Stu for being whimsical but it is my way of avoiding serious self harm.

  97. orri
    Ignored
    says:

    Except that Cameron has actually delivered exactly what his part of the “Vow” consisted of. There’s draft legislation waiting to be put through. Of course it’s always possible that the next government will not do so. As that’s in all probability going to be a Labour one I wonder who’d take the blame for that?

    OK so the actual legislation might be keech. What do you expect? He’s a tory.

  98. Robert Peffers
    Ignored
    says:

    @Mike says: 15 April, 2015 at 10:06 am:

    ” … the record Claims to be Scotland’s champion”

    The Daily Record is very much like a Glasgow Cooncil sewer – you will only get out of it what they put into it.

  99. Richardinho
    Ignored
    says:

    The impression I get from that Record cover is that the Labour party have been outwitted yet again by the Tories.

  100. Big Jock
    Ignored
    says:

    Richardinho – Murphy was outwitted by the tots at the nursery when he was there! LOL

  101. frogesque
    Ignored
    says:

    O/T-ish The Washington Post has a fair understanding of the situation …
    http://tinyurl.com/q7vvvhv

    Love that quote at the end:

    ““They (SNP)had prepared for defeat,” said Paul Sinclair, a veteran Labor Party strategist who was active in last year’s unionist campaign. “But we didn’t prepare for victory.””

  102. Cactus
    Ignored
    says:

    “The vow delivers..” when?

    For me (and many others) at least one new power from this vow, would have had to have been delivered before now (and certainly by this coming General Election) to have any true meaning / validity.

    The introduction of some new Scottish powers should have been in place and active by now.

    There can be no credibility on further offers of intent ~ Fin.

  103. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    The Labour/Unionists who have been bringing Scotland down for the last fifty years. Let’s make them history. The Westminster /Unionists liars. They have been milking Scotland forever. Every word they utter is a lie.

    They will promises anything to get elected. Selling off public housing, after tightening up mortgage rules. People with deposits and adequate incomes where about to purchase houses when Osbourne tighten up mortgage guidelines. The mortgage offers were rejected.

    Young folk to get £1600 a year? Labour/Unionists were means-testing student loans on household incomes. Students of households of average income couldn’t get a full loan to go to University.

  104. Ken500
    Ignored
    says:

    Oil on the West. Imagine the difference to Glasgow, Ayr and Helensburgh. Scrapping Trident waste.

  105. Effijy
    Ignored
    says:

    The Dummy Broken Record only exists to scaremonger the vulnerable and elderly who cannot access the truth on social media. What a joy it must be for a reporter to be forced into biased bile mode day after day to the suppressed in their place.

    With regard to the Vow, you must be mistaken about it being kyboshed. I heard Gordon Brown Gravy Train promise that he and his Labour party will deliver Home Rule, as near to a Federal State as can be.

    Then he went off to spend £10,000 per week on expenses for his charity. Still manages MP’s expenses too.
    Cleaver man- taught Dim Jim all he needs to know about expenses.

    We also had David McCameron who loves us who is proud of Scottish ancestry promise us a utopian state with the UK.
    Well he was locked in a Capitalist’s works cateen with a captive audience of stooge workers, as he mingled not with the real people of Scotland?

    How many times can we have governments and PMs that can’t walk the street of Scotland and who don’t have a care about its people?

  106. Chris Sewter
    Ignored
    says:

    I may be mistaken here but is it not impossible for there to be any such thing as English votes for English laws?

    What about Wales? All laws that affect England also affect Wales. They are inseperable. Take judicial system for one example, Wales and England are exactly same, Scottish judicial system has always been different.

  107. North chiel
    Ignored
    says:

    Wingers please note that “Jackie accident&emergency” “that will be
    Devo max then Bird”,back in “the chair” tonight with “the usual”
    NHS scare story ( GP’s this time) has now “DECREED” no less
    Take note! that the ” main issue” ( which SHE will RETURN TO) is
    “The deficit” .Take it as a given readers that Jackie, the Daily record
    And of course Pacific quay in general ,will propagate this issue as
    An anti (NOW after the no vote) DEVO MAX/ HOME RULE argument
    (SNP remain “bad”)

  108. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    Neil Orr@9.45
    “Been doing that too where possible.

    Its very difficult at the BP garage in Dalgety Bay as the pro-indy papers are inside and tucked under the bottom shelf.I pull them out so they are as visible as possible.

    At one point they were outside with the msm but that’s changed.

    Get my paper there to keep up sales and so I can pull out the papers,but stopped buying feul there when the indy papers were moved inside.”

    I had the same problem with my Kelvindale SPAR shop in Cleveden Rd, Glasgow. They put the National upside down on the bottom shelf with another paper on top. I used to put them om the top shelf on top the Daily Reptile and she argued about it. I don’t shop there any more and go the Kelvindale Mini Market, a bit further down.I mentioned it to the National and their distribution manager. I haven’t been back to see if they still do it.

  109. EphemeralDeception
    Ignored
    says:

    @Robert Peffers and Chris Sewter,

    Indeed the separate system of law in Scotland is an important factor.

    The term English Law is correct because Wales has had English law and all other components of the English systems of governance enforced and made a principality of the monarchy of England.
    So It is English Law even if it is not only ‘English votes’

    Geographically there are 4 countries officially.
    Politically there is 1 UK state often referred to as ‘our country’ by the Brits.
    Legally there are 2 separate systems of Law one in Scotland and one in England. And laws passed in London have to be deployed into English law and Scottish law separately.

    This last point is why ‘Scotland extinguished’ as a seperate entity false in the Tory / UK arguments mentioned by Robert.

    Scotland has a recognised border (6000 Sq miles stolen aside) and a separate system of law and Sovereignty over certain functions. This makes it a semi autonomous Region in UN terms.

    Those 3 elements are different than Wales and quite important: We can legislate, change law and apply to a recognised area; which is a country geographically and a semi-autonomous region politically.

    Note: My interpretation and opinion only, I am just a layman not a lawyer.

  110. Stone_Truth
    Ignored
    says:

    Beginning to wonder if you’re part hammer Mr Peffers 🙂

  111. Ali
    Ignored
    says:

    @EphemeralDeception

    “laws passed in London have to be deployed into English law and Scottish law separately.”

    not quite but dependent on subject matter, devolved matters etc

    An Act of Westminster can extend to all jurisdictions in the one act, there is no need for Scotland to introduce legislation separately unless there is a specific reason such as a devolved matter etc or simply convenience.

    for instance the Modern Slavery Act 2015 section 60 extends the Act to England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, there is no need for the Scottish legislator to introduce a separate act.

  112. EphemeralDeception
    Ignored
    says:

    @Ali,

    Certainly there is one act often but I belive it is then put into statute/law buy English law officers for England and Scottish law offices in Scotland.

    Even Scottish parliament laws are subject to UK approval:
    “Because the Scottish parliament remains subject to the Westminster parliament, new laws require their cooperation. Each bill can be challenged by the London secretary of state for Scotland in the four weeks following its approval”

    But at the end of the day a law passed at UK level is put onto the Englsih Law statute and Scottish law separately.

    “The Act of Union 1707 merged the Kingdom of Scotland and the Kingdom of England to form the new Kingdom of Great Britain. Article 19 of the Act confirmed the continuing authority of the College of Justice, Court of Session and Court of Justiciary in Scotland.[30] Article 3, however, merged the Estates of Scotland with the Parliament of England to form the Parliament of Great Britain, with its seat in the Palace of Westminster, London. Under the terms of the Act of Union, Scotland retained its own systems of law, education and Church (Church of Scotland, Presbyterian polity), separately from the rest of the country.”

    “Laws can be made by Acts of the United Kingdom Parliament. While Acts can apply to the whole of the United Kingdom including Scotland, due to the continuing separation of Scots law many Acts do not apply to Scotland and are either matched by equivalent Acts that apply to Scotland alone or, since 1999, by legislation set by the Scottish Parliament relating to devolved matters.”

    Even if it applies to Scotland a London ruling is put into Scots law separate to English law afaik.

  113. Alasdair
    Ignored
    says:

    Yesterday I tried to buy the “National” in my local (Port Glasgow) ‘Tesco Extra’ store. I couldn’t find it anywhere, even under the piles of Tory propaganda papers.

    I asked staff, most of whom said they never heard of the National, but eventually one said “We must of sold out.”

    I felt fobbed off.

  114. donald anderson
    Ignored
    says:

    Alasdair says:
    16 April, 2015 at 11:02 am
    “Yesterday I tried to buy the “National” in my local (Port Glasgow) ‘Tesco Extra’ store. I couldn’t find it anywhere, even under the piles of Tory propaganda papers.

    I asked staff, most of whom said they never heard of the National, but eventually one said “We must of sold out.”

    I felt fobbed off”.

    The national distribution manager should be formally contacting Lidle and Aldi. Being German they are usually more sympathetic to Scotland than the English Supermercat chains



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