That right-wing British public
Posted on
July 27, 2015 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
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27 07 15 15:17
That right-wing British public | Speymouth
Ignored
Now that looks pretty clear on the whole to me.
But then I’m not genetically programmed to have an opinion being from Scotland.
What is the source of this? I see the dates are different for each question. It would be nice to see the original because you will be accused of cherry picking, though the results are pretty much what I would expect
Source, Rev?
It would be interesting to see the Scottish subsample. I suspect the results would be similar but with higher support for the leading responses, though a separate Scottish poll would give more meaningful results.
The right wing media would never let a left wing party win in the same way as they won’t let Scotland become Independence. Labour knows where the moneys at.
I’d love to know what the 20% think the reason for the growth of foodbanks is then if not rising poverty and inequality.
No doubt they probably think the foodbank users spend all their money on booze and heroin.
Labour MPs do not care about what the people want, all they care about is what they want.
It’s from a YouGov poll (I did one recently)
The source, as it says in the first caption, is YouGov. It’s not a single poll. The date of each one is at the bottom left of every pic.
And I am sure the people of Germany would’ve returned a similar result in the thirties……but that did nothing to stop the rise of fascism.
People are the problem. Their silence, their accepting of a
an insidious agenda with a direction of travel which doesn’t bear thinking about.
Aye – you can’t win elections coming from the left (unless, of course, you don’t count the SNP who did just that and got the biggest share of the Scottish vote in living memory)
Tells the story Rev, shows why the SNP are at the moment, the only game in town.
As an aide to Nixon is reputed to have said.
“The bastards have spoken”
All very conclusive, also heartning, in as much that folk still feel there is, generally, a need for social inclusion in our society.
Rev. Stuart Campbell says:
27 July, 2015 at 12:23 pm
The source, as it says in the first caption, is YouGov. It’s not a single poll. The date of each one is at the bottom left of every pic.
Thanks. Missed the captions. Shame this was not in one single poll, as that would have been more definitive.
Not that it would make any difference to the “national conversation” either way, cos those who are having that conversation are not speaking to us.
A great synopsis Rev.
So by all accounts, Jeremy Corbyn is the only Labour candidate in tune with public opinion. Wonder how that’ll turn out. I think we can expect more of Project Fear#2 any day now!
TU’s do not reflect public opinion. SNP do not reflect public opinion. Young people do not reflect public opinion. Disabled people do not reflect public opinion. On and on.
The only people they see as people, are people who agree with them. And it is an ever shrinking group.
Sorry Rev but I have to disagree with you on this one, Labour are not giving up, they gave up a lot of years ago.
Some of us have watched it all falling apart for the past 30 to 40 years ago, no soul, no responsibility and above all no direction.
They left a big hole in politics and keep digging themselves into a bigger mess every week, Scotland awoke to find after the referendum that all three Westminster parties were lying through their teeth. So they suffered the consequence’s at the general election, the Scottish parliamentary elections look like despite all attempts to feed more lies to the population being a repeat performance. So its nuts to Labour just like their “Ground nuts scheme” in the 50’s, history repeating it’s self.
A clear picture from all, except the final one. That really seems very odd. It’s a contradiction to everything which has gone before.
30% think there are sufficient differences between Lab and Con to allow any of the attitudes above to be usefully represented!!
Worse, 18% think Lab and Con should be closer together!!
Only 32% see them similar. That too is astonishing. In the GE there was almost consensus between them! The differences were in very small print.
My only explanation is that many people are judging Lab and Con in terms which are decades old and not relevant to Blair/Cameron positioning.
Have enjoyed reading your posts over the last year, this is OT however after the latest WM scandal I would like to suggest bringing our overlords/elected reps into the modern workplace and introduce random drug/alcohol testing. Comments please!
ahundredthidiot says:
“People are the problem. Their silence, their accepting of a
an insidious agenda with a direction of travel which doesn’t bear thinking about.”
People are strange, and indeed too many silent. I find it astonishing that so many hold the above views and yet, in England, over half voted for either a very right wing party, or an extremely right wing party! The Tory+UKIP position, getting uncomfortable close to facism, proved inexplicably popular!
Our southern neighbours, despite the opinions they claim to hold, do seem to be marching towards the abyss.
Thank heavens for Scottish good sense and our social democratic SNP.
People say a lot of things when they don’t have the decision to make
When faced with the prospect of less, or fear of less, we know what they do
They invariably Abstain….
That’s how Governments win elections
The uncertainty factor, deliver heavy doses of concern and watch the media turn the population inside out
Hey Presto it was Rupert Murdoch wot done it
And we’re about to see it again right here in good old Scotchland
But are we strong enough or brave enough to make the decision this time
The NO people will say it’s about finances, common sense, the numbers just don’t add up, I want to stay British, and on and on they’ll Chunter in order to justify, basically, cowardice with a capital F for (Feartie)
Last time we tried positivity, perhaps this time we might use what the opposition used
Raw naked horror at the prospect of what looks like fifteen years of Poverty, War, Child Molestation acceptable, Theft of everything of value Scotland has left before “THEY” decide “THEY” are finished with us
Maybe there are some things I’ve missed out there but I’m sure you’ll see my point
Maybe our new First Minister will find a strategy to stick it to them before they stick it to us
Instead of defending ourselves, like last time, how about attacking them first for a change
Off topic –
Why is this Indyref 2 kerfuffle even making the news headlines? Surely another independence referendum was always inevitable?
Maybe it’s just the London media types getting excited at Alex Salmond making a proclamation and an opportunity for them to put pressure on Nicola Sturgeon.
It’s quite a legacy for Bliar, Brown, Fliipper etc, They leave behind a shell of a SLabour propped up BBC Scotland, a red Tory UK Labour and a far right blue Tory.gov, yet the UK vote goes left.
If we had a media with a shred of professionalism and decency, they’d maybe even ask likes of Bomber Bliar and Crash Gordon why they did it.
Agreed,all those in elected office should be independently tested for drug/alcohol,seems sensible.
Hi Gordoz, we are programmed to have an opinion – it is just constantly ignored. Only little Englanders embedded in the stonework of Westminster know what peoples throughout the world need and that they are incapable of deciding for themselves, we know what’s best for you. As AS said on Marr yesterday morning a mistake that The Westminster Establishment has ignoered for years from as he said, “From Dublin to Delhi” and they seem to be incapable of learning from history. Oh how I wish we had a bit more fire in our bellies like the Irish, Indians, Cypriots, Kenyans and yes even some Gallic fight.
Auld Rock
It does help if people know exactly what you stand for and with Labour?
Who knows?
Perhaps if they formed another focus group and held a dialogue or two…
Ah’ll get ma coat.
My only mild surprise in those percentages is the thirty percent who thought the differences between Labour and Tory were ‘just about right.’
I mean, seriously? Thirty percent of those polled there must walk around with their eyes shut.
At least one of the reasons Labour lost the last election was the fact that it’s quite hard to see where Tory ends and Labour begins. Their pathetic abdication of responsibility by sitting on their hands when the Tory welfare bill came up might as well be considered an indication of where that party is; they’re so petrified of Corbyn they even trotted out the Dark Lord himself to warn against how a left wing leader would lose the party votes.
And that’s funny, because it kinda suggests the Dark Lord thinks his vision of where the party should be is working. From (barest) Opposition. In an election where the Tories were basically the bogeyman. Labour are, in a rather crude nutshell, fucked and their right wing overlord doesn’t seem to realise.
I read an article the last night that suggested the only real way out of this for Labour is pretty much to become two parties. Let the Blairites have their ball; they don’t represent anyone outwith their own ideology these days.
O/T Just listened to some English Football supporters
who are very excited at how easy their World Cup Group is.
They seem to miss the point that they have never made a world cup, or European championship final, let alone win anything in the last 50 years!
For countries with populations in excess of 50,000,000, we can count a number of successes for other nations of this size who have won both, and some have won several times such as Germany, Italy, Spain, France.
In other words, everyone large European nation except Engerlund.
Other international winners who have a fraction of the English population, sports facilities and wealth include Holland, Greece, Denmark, Czechoslovakia.
If we look at the current world cup qualifiers, Slovakia
has the next highest population to Engerlund with 5,400,000, next Scotland, 5.3, Lithuania 3, Slovenia 2,
and Malta with only 423,000.
You just know that their pundits will promote them to favourites in the world cup itself, as they were able to beat nations with less than one tenth of their population.
England has 55,000,000 residents with London alone 8.6 .
Effijy-I would go further and say that 1966 squad is arguably the worst and the poorest team ever to win it. In fact there is NO argument!
Ian Sylvester,My Husband was moved to say yesterday that given the number of hooks crooks and common singers there are in the House of Lords, we at least know where they all are so when the revolution comes along we can dispose of them in a oner.
I certainly would not knock the idea of getting that lot into a workplace but chance would be a fine thing, maybe just drink and drug them once they wake up, or possibly if they wake up given the age of some of them.
Mandatory drugs testing please, every Monday morning, with an additional random element, lest random becomes avoidable.
“…the Conservative and Labour party,…” LOL!
The right wing press are hammering Jeremy Corbyn because it knows his ideals can win. So many voters are put off by two parties that are the same. Its not rocket science.
Nicola says SNP “still to decide” on a second referendum. That will enrage the Brit Nats even more!
Many of the 30% who see the difference between con and lab as just fine are probably wet tories, tory leaning lab voters, or floating voters who are in favour of the consensus.
@ Auld Rock
Saw Alex Salmond yesterday – on form as always : what a foundation rock for our cause.
Couldn’t agree more ; ‘Frustration’ is the name of the game
I have to say that with reference to the question ‘Would you support or oppose capping the size of bonuses that banks can pay to their employees at 100% of their salary?’ I would find it difficult to support that. Because 100% of their salary is an obscene bonus. I think it’s safe to say not many of you would disagree with that. Personally, if they must receive a reward of some sort, I’d cap it at a bag of chips and a pickle on expenses.
OT but I just want to say how good it was to meet up with some of the wings family in Helensburgh at the weekend. The sun was shining on us and it was a brilliant night. I’m looking forward to the next one already 😀
O/T Just listened to some English Football supporters
who are very excited at how easy their World Cup Group is.
Granted football is far more important than anything else, the fact is that this week the whole of teamGB media, led and coordinated by the BBC , are savaging the next and last Ref 2.
Considering same media creep show has, either misinformed everyone about the Scotland Bill and/or there’s a an ongoing black out on anything to do with the Scotland Bill, or how Scotland was historically shysted by The VOW fraud, English sports fans are as hacked off at their national football team’s record as anyone can imagine.
This and other polls call into question the MSM/Blairite views on Jeremy Corbyn and how far left and out of tune he is with the public.
However the Blairites have got the message, which is why I think they will be working secretively to gerrymander the result of the leadership election.
Wee_monsieur
Interesting.
Nicola is in Beijing trying to develop trade links.
Guess what Reporting Scotland (Jackie Bird!) has to say. “Controversy follows her as Alex Salmond says a second Referendum is inevitable. Questions are aked of her on this”.
What rubbish! It was only the BBC reporter who raised the subject in an obvious attempt to create a divide between Nicola and Alex.
Little chance of that, but they are always at it.
Given that all these questions were asked (in one survey or another) before GE2015, if this is the prevailing, dominan view, then it begs the question–how the hell did the Tories win?
ex Labour MP Tom Harris in Saturdays National
“Labour is having a self indulgent nervous breakdown and must prioritise POWER over principle.”
Nice to know where Scottish Labour stand. They might have a few problems backing Corbyn since he appears to be adopting much of the SNP stance.
On BBC Radio Scotland this morning of Head of England supporters says England fans wish they had Nicola Sturgeon instead of some guy who can’t even remember what team he supports. Nicola supports Ayr United.
Former Barcelona manager Pep Guardiola is standing for Catalan Parliament as list candidate to show his support for independence.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/guardiola-to-contest-catalan-parliamentary-elections-1.2291988
Given that all these questions were asked (in one survey or another) before GE2015, if this is the prevailing, dominan view, then it begs the question–how the hell did the Tories win?
Bigotry. Plain olde English bigotry’s wot won it. Decades of turning Salmond into a Scottish monster, giant posters across every English marginal with Salmond as thieving sweatie pickpocket , stealing English money.
May 8, all giant Salmond’s a Scottish thief posters are gone, because we are one nation and we really are better together.
Google Linton Cosby, an Ausie con artist and master in neo fascist darkness. It’s that spiv who sad little man Macternan tried to emulate. Macternan’s Project Fear worked on Scotland too but not Linton Cosby’s because his job was to fire up English nationalism, which doesn’t exist, because we’re better tiogether, UKOK.
Heartening, reassuring. But I’m always surprised at the high percentage of ‘don’t knows’. ‘Not sure’ is bad enough. But ‘don’t know’…
Ooh. I took part in this survey. Seems I gave all the popular answers!
Good article by Peter Bell on Mundell asking for conformation of Indy 2. On change.com here.
/www.change.org/p/scottish-parliament-affirm-scotland-s-right-of-self-determination
Joemcg, in his post at 1.29pm, suggests the 1966 England squad was the worst to win the World Cup.
While I certainly feel, playing all their games at Wembley was a huge help to England, as was the mental melt-down of a very good Argentinian team, aided by a referee whom I feel had a wee bet on England. To say they were the worst team to win the thing shows your anti-Englishness.
That team had the best goalkeeper in the world, the best left-back, the best second centre-half and the best forward/midfielder playing “in the hole” in the world; that’s a spine of the team good enough to win any tournament.
Yes, Hurst’s second goal should never have been given, but, against that, the free-kick from which Germany equalised at the end of 90 minutes was another which should never have been given. Take them away and England still win.
We have no means of knowing how good or bad the pre-war winners, when the British didn’t take part, were. I also have my reservations about the 1950 Uruguayans, although, four years later a few of that winning squad were in the team which hammered Scotland 7-0.
That winning England squad beat a good Scottish team, at Hampden, prior to the ’66 World Cup. They were a good side. Certainly a better team than today’s England squad.
Well, the answers surely put to bed the notion that ‘the English’ are all reactionary, which some SNP supporters have suggested in the past.
So let’s unite on our shared progressive values – and no, I don’t mean unite with the Labour party (which is just, as we know, part of the state, an arm of the establishment).
And note that all the answers contradict the pro-‘austerity’, pro-privatisation policies of the capitalist EU
Although I only read the on-line version of the Record am I just imagining things or is it possible that the rag is on the turn.
There have been several articles lately where one would have expected them to go in with the boot and attack The SNP – an example is today’s interview with Kevin Pringle which is far from hostile towards The SNP.
@ gus1940
We have seen such false dawn’s before. Don’t trust this one
I think the “not sures” are too stupid to be given a vote!.
@ Dr Jim
I’m with you on much of this. The leadership must stay above the fray for now but we need some of our politicians to start toughening their language. Otherwise the negative stories will gain traction – like the oil price fixation which unionists keep punting, disingenuous on so many levels.
One of my strongest memories of indyref1 was the amount of fear that had consumed many voters, we need to spend less time defending against unionist lies & more time attacking unionist failure.
@wee_monsieur says: 1:10pm
The establishment via Westminster (HOL, HOC & privi council), civil service, EBC, MSM, keep the peasants on their toes by the thought of a second referendum. WHIT ABOOT MA PENSION?
It’s the only plan the “establishment” have to keep their elite position. Anybody else trying a con & theft on this scale would be removed from society?
You only have to look at the “progress” of the chilcott enq. The child abuse enq. and the involvement of HOL, HOC, PC ignored by the EBC, MSM. On the suspects death their file misteriously appears, think that is the criteria for finding ” missing” HMG documents!
If you want to put your faith and trust in these morons then there are a lot of very sick people in this country, and the establishment play on this fact, and use it to their advantage.
This nice wee system is by design NOT by ACCIDENT! IMHO
This is from YouGov. I’m on their panel and answered these questions. Going from week to week various questions about current matters are asked. Personally, I’ve got strong opinions on these matters so wording etc is unimportant. For those who don’t, the wording tends to lead the answer.
Socrates MacSporran
I agree. The England team of 1966 were full of great players, but so were Scotland at the time, and in 1967 we beat them 3-2 at Wembley, with Jim Baxter, Denis Law, and all.
We therefore claimed to be the actual World Champions.
I think the snp and nicola should boycott any interviews with the biased ebc. This would do more to show up this discredited organisation for the unionist mouthpiece that it is, and more so when referendum 2 comes up.
Papadox,spot on post!.
2 days the BBC in Scotland have saw fit to run with this story about another referendum but today they find another slightly different angle to go at it by. Today it`s Nicola`s visit to Asia “overshadowed” by Alex`s remarks.
Another thing was that they reported about the “Scottish” Peer when STV news at least managed to be a bit more accurate in reporting him as a Labour Peer.
They are so blatant it should really be a gift to us so that we can point out those little inconsistencies to folk who may still be in doubt over the BBC`s real agenda and day to day bias on Scottish issues.
@ Effijy 1:18 pm
At last, we have got round to the really important stuff!
Being a football fan, for most of us (except for Celtic, Man U, Man C, Chelsea, Arsenal fans) is to live in hope and excitement rather than expectation and reality.
Having been a long time West Ham fan, there is rarely a fixture that I “expect” to win. Hope, should, ought to, are words used – never “expect”. If we are playing a team from a lower division, then the expectation is actually more towards a disaster than a victory.
You wrote: “You just know that their pundits will promote them to favourites in the world cup itself …. ”
Don’t be ridiculous! There isn’t a single pundit that will say England are favourites – and you know it – but it doesn’t suit the meme you want to portray.
Having said all that, I really think that this could be our time ….
Why do they always put the f#ckwit option “NotSure” at the end? On your ballot paper you don’t get.
Imagine the election result if they did:
Scottish Election Results expressed in %
Tory fascist bully boy and unionist Party 10%
Labour in meltdown 15% ‘cos ma granny always voted them
Liberal who’s that again 1% lost deposit
SNP 51%
Not Sure 34%
BBC News Bulletin
The Not Sure Party finished slightly ahead of Labour and the Conservative Party after a hard fought campaign
“So let’s unite on our shared progressive values – and no, I don’t mean unite with the Labour party (which is just, as we know, part of the state, an arm of the establishment).”
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32343241
Sturgeon tried pre May 7 Will. How did that work out and your “unite on our shared progressive values”
Christ teamGB britnats are not keen in living in the real world one little bit.
Joemcg wrote:
“Nicola says SNP “still to decide” on a second referendum.”
I for one hope that if the SNP decide to go for it they don’t opt for 2018 because not only will we have a ramped up Project Fear to deal with we will also have to battle against a tsunami of Rule Britannia propaganda marking 100 years since the end of WW1.
There is also another small matter of some wee footie tournament taking place that year and it’s one i’m reasonably confident of Scotland, Wales, RoI, England and NI all participating in.
2018 would be a suicidal move. I prefer the 2020 vision.
Very interesting reading but not a surprise,we have to remember that the English electorate are about 5 years behind us and are only just starting to see the reality.
Their problem is choice in that they do not have one,it was the same in Scotland until the SNP finally got their act together,they are forced to vote on the basis of the lesser of two evils.
@ Will P
It is not for us to join with you in England Will ,until you lot can get organised under one banner i am afraid you are no good to us,we are not going to wait so if you can all catch up great but we aint stopping this juggernaut for little groups of stragglers.
And you have to remember our goal is to kill the UK stone dead and gain our independence,maybe if you English went down the road of independence for England we would back you,hell we might even come down and help you.
Socrates-hmm..anti-Englishness? Just an opinion bud! They got the rub of the green certainly all the way through that tournament. Did you also know that the semi against a very strong Portuguese side should have been played at Anfield the away teams preference too and the Portugal team were very unhappy and upset when the FA moved it unsportingly to wembley?
Geoff Huijer says:
27 July, 2015 at 12:20 pm
I’d love to know what the 20% think the reason for the growth of foodbanks is then if not rising poverty and inequality.
No doubt they probably think the foodbank users spend all their money on booze and heroin.
Well, if the lord Sewage can snort white substances whilst sitting naked with 2 prostitutes, they have to have some priveleges left to them
Brain hurts it is so obvious but I am another of the not genetically programmed to see the woods for the trees.
Now totally OT
In relation to the footie draw, it is the worst draw possible as ‘Blood on the Streets’ Regan will use it bump up the prices on hard pressed supporters yet again.
You could nail that data to Liz Kendalls forehead and she still wouldn’t see it or accept it.
Using “Labourvision” this information takes on the opposite meaning.
Sensibledave-no answer on the previous thread as to why you think it’s shocking that the SNP were going to vote on the foxhunting but you think it’s ok that English MPs voted down all the Scotland bill amendments. Please answer.
Fireproofjim 3:21 pm
…. and using that logic, currently, England are three times better than Scotland at footy – based upon the 2014 scoreline.
Unfortunately, there is a good chance that by the time the second fixture will be played at Hampden, it will be a dead rubber. England will have already qualified but Scotland may be scrapping with Lithuania and Slovenia for second and third place I suppose.
It was Goodison not Anfield. Same city though!
Joemcg 3:58 pm
You wrote “Sensibledave-no answer on the previous thread as to why you think it’s shocking that the SNP were going to vote on the foxhunting but you think it’s ok that English MPs voted down all the Scotland bill amendments. Please answer.”
The latter was a matter for all Westminster MPs to consider following the result of the recent referendum – where the majority of Scots said that they wanted it to be that way.
With respect to the former – because I (and anyone else who listened to her on live TV before the election) believed Ms Sturgeon and the SNP when they said they wouldn’t.
Can we keep the football mania off the thread unless it has relevance?
Given,that the British are renowned World Champion liars and hypocrites in their historical geo political posturing,these polls may just reinforce that viewpoint.
Else, how can electing a government of the current hue be possible.
Of course this is childsplay compared to the reelection of Labour after it was known the war was based on lies, sexed up dossiers and false premises.
So what’s new. 🙂
Paula Rose 4:20 pm
“Can we keep the football mania off the thread unless it has relevance?”
Sorry Paula – I only responded to the initial comment. I am writing this at 16.30pm – if no “England supporter baiting” happens after this point in time then I will desist.
“where the majority of Scots said that they wanted it to be that way.”
Think you’ll find a lot of non Scots voted NO sensible, probably enough of the 150k votes wot won it too.
Such is UKOK democracy. Next time should do it though, scratch that, will do it!
Paula Rose
Football is not a matter of life and death. It is more important than that.
Copyright – Bill Shankly
could live better without the footy, but it would be nice if England needed passports to get here
Survey Questions
“Would you support or oppose increasing the current top rate of income tax from 45% to 60% for income over £120k pa”
add “…. in the knowledge that overall tax receipts would decline and you would have to pay more yourself to make up the difference”
Next question “Would you support or oppose the capping of the size of bonuses that banks can pay to their employees at 100% of salary”
add “…. in the full knowledge that overall tax receipts would be severely reduced because banker’s bonuses are taxed through PAYE at 45% whilst corporation tax is currently 20% – meaning that we get 25% less overall.
“add “…. in the knowledge that overall tax receipts would decline and you would have to pay more yourself to make up the difference””
(1) Unproven assertion.
(2) Good luck getting that put on the ballot paper.
“add “…. in the full knowledge that overall tax receipts would be severely reduced because banker’s bonuses are taxed through PAYE at 45%”
Define “severely”, with figures.
Unite with the English says Will
Half my family’s English Will and they’ve never united with me, according to them I’m an idiot Scotsman, if I’d been brought up in England I’d have known better than to hitch my wagon to that terrible Salmond and Sturgeon
Even though I have been a SNP member for a very long time
But it didn’t matter before now because the SNP weren’t stirring up the Scots to be getting above their station in life
No, I’m afraid not old son, I couldn’t give a monkeys if good old England dribbles down the poverty drain or not coz when Scotland had something to decide for ourselves the English, as is the Norm, stuck their oar in along with their big mouths and decided it was more about them
And whether anybody likes it or not, that’s offensive!!!
The English are not better or smarter or more knowledgeable
at anything more than anybody else in the world so what makes them think they have any rights to interfere in other countries affairs, #BUZZER SOUNDS#
…..”Arrogance”….. #BING#…. Give the man a biscuit
Nearly Forgot… Rule Britannia…My fat arse
We have increasingly seen, thanks to instruments like ‘The Political Compass’ that the terms ‘Left’ and ‘Right’ are insufficient to describe modern politics. The Green Party is perceived as being left-wing yet many of its policy positions are traditional areas of concern for the small ‘c’ conservative.
Generally those views that are regarded as left are progressive and those of the right regressive (i.e. harking back to discredited forms of social ordering). Nowadays many people do not have a full understanding of political parties and can be confused by the other meanings of the words left and right.
Shouldn’t we be using terms such as progressive and regressive – or some such nomenclature instead?
“My brother’s famous.”
Copyright – Bob Shankly
8=)
Sensibledave
I don’t recall the SNP having said they would never vote on ‘English only’ issues.
My understanding is that they generally absent themselves but still reserved the right to do so.
Given,that the UKOK cabal made what turned out to be a bogus offer of Home Rule to possibly swing the result of Indyref,I think SNP have rightly decided to play slightly more hardball with Westminster.
Good on them 🙂
@ Rev. Stuart Campbell 4.48 pm
You wrote: (1) Unproven assertion. (2) Good luck getting that put on the ballot paper.
Then: “Define “severely”, with figures”
Rev, (re points 1 and 2) the point I am making, as well you know, is that those questions are populist nonsense that are everything to do with dogma and ideology and nothing to do with economic sense. I want the rich to pay as much tax as we can get from them – but we are limited by the economic reality of the world we live in where “the rich” can be mobile (on paper rather than in physical reality).
I don’t know (and I don’t think anyone else does) the exact value of all banker’s bonuses but, for the sake of discussion, let us say it is £50 billion.
Firstly, and contrary to popular opinion, the vast majority of those bonuses are paid through the PAYE system which means we get £22.5 Billion income tax receipts from the Bankers. Not bad eh?
If none of the bonuses were paid then the bank’s profits would rise by £50 Billion and we would get 20% (currently) Corporation tax on the increased profits – i.e. £10 billion.
In simple terms therefore, the Exchequer loses out to the tune of £12.5 Billion!!!!
Will that definition of “severely” do?
The Scottish Bill presumably comes under UK parliament business – and that is how they would justify casting their votes —
whereas the foxhunting amendment was English-only — and the snp said they would not be involving themselves in such matters.
Of course this means if an English Parliament Bill appears,the snp would have every right to vote on such a UK matter.
Personally, I say make the ball in play as hard as possible.
@sensibledave – why do you have two different avatars right next to each other? Are you twins?
You wrote “Generally those views that are regarded as left are progressive and those of the right regressive (i.e. harking back to discredited forms of social ordering). Nowadays many people do not have a full understanding of political parties and can be confused by the other meanings of the words left and right.”
If “progressive” means free university education for the rich, free prescriptions for the rich, free care of the elderly rich, a freeze on council tax on mansions for the rich – then I am definitely confused Paula.
In England we lean much more towards the “From each according to their ability, to each according to their need” on these items – popularised by Karl Marx in his 1875 Critique of the Gotha Program.
@ dakk 5:01 pm
You wrote: “I don’t recall the SNP having said they would never vote on ‘English only’ issues”
Do you really want me to post the clip, again, of Ms Sturgeon on Question Time, speaking to the whole of the UK, before the GE, telling us all, specifically, that the SNP wouldn’t vote at Westminster, on fox hunting, in England?
You are just going to have to accept that Ms Sturgeon’s views and pronouncements are just as pliable and subject to political winds and opportunities as any other politician. You cannot trust her any more than Cameron, Farron, Farage or “X” (where X is which ever person becomes leader of the Labour Party).
@Liz 5.55
I think the site generates the avatars.
@ sensibledave For starters the rich will have paid more in tax than the less well off. The cost of means testing when most prescriptions are for people who are exempt makes the policy economically sensible – plus
http://news.scotland.gov.uk/News/Free-prescriptions-f8b.aspx
Sensibledave
I can more readily accept Ms Sturgeon’s perceived. ‘pliability’ as being in the interests of the people of Scotland,whereas unionist politicians never have and never will do anything with Scotland’s interests foremost. 🙂
That said ,I don’t doubt with increasing opportunities of power with SNP there are bound to be opportunists who may eventually levitate there.I don’t see it yet though and SNP are a no brainer in terms of addressing Scotland’s democratic deficit within the UK.
You are just going to have to accept…
When are you going to allocate time to help the hungry in your home town of Hull, the place you say is socially disadvantaged? Squandering time here taking leaps of incident won’t win you the Florence Nightingale Award.
Pre-Smith Commission we were able to discern English only issues.
Post Smith Commission we can perceive some ‘English-only bills’ detrimentally affect the economy and fabric of Scottish society – hence we vote on them all.
We vote on them all because we are charged with that role by Scotland’s electorate, in addition to invitation from Bowie, Snow, Izzard, et al, that Scotland assume the role of a UK party.
@ Grousey
… Just run me through how fox hunting in the England affects Scotland. Is it that the super intelligent foxes in Scotland understand that they are safer in England (because our laws are tougher) so they are all leaving Scotland?
Paula 6.58
Come on Paula, it’s really not rocket science. Down here you declare, yourself, whether you are entitled to free prescriptions (ie you are a pensioner, on job seekers, etc) and if not, pay the fee. The means testing is by self declaration and a signature.
Hi Sensibledave.
As a Scot, who lives in Scotland, a partner in the UK, I am psychologically damaged by the thought that a mammal, native to the British Isles, is persecuted by people who regard it as a fun day out, with horses and dogs, to kill said mammal.
Therefore, I demand that my MP continues to vote in the UK parliament, to which he is elected, in order to assuage the psychological damage perpetrated against me.
That OK?
Just run me through how fox hunting in the England affects Scotland
See my post at 7.19, and try not to sound like a jerk.
‘Average total pay…for London’s top-earning bankers surged by 35% to 1.95 million euros(£1.6million) in 2012. In Sweden only 11 (top-earning bankers) earned more than 1 million euros;37 in Spain;117 in France; in Germany 100;in the UK 2188.Of all 526 the non- investment bankers in Europe earning this amount all were in the UK. The UK is not normal’ ( Dorling Inequality and the 1%).
I think we would all echo that. There is much work to be done to lift the veil of secrecy of a financial system that shelters tax evaders and a UKOK government that puts global interests above national interests and permits undisclosed financial holdings and funding of military organisations.
Free prescriptions in Scotland- an excellent idea.The costs of trying to devise a system to decide which conditions and at what level of income merit free prescriptions costs more to implement- what long term conditions qualify-diabetes?renal disease? hypertension? thyroid disease? Unless we want to emulate the USA where 1/3 of the population cant access health care or afford their medicines and where the biggest cause of bankruptcy is unaffordable health costs.
Do we want to be governed by a political ideology that espouses stigma and social exclusion aided by a compliant MSM (of the impoverished, feckless, workless)to subvert the mechanisms of democracy and exercise social, economic and political power that is oppressive and exploitative?
Solidarity- a binding theme of the inclusive YES movement- espouses the opposite and does support the welfare state (how radical!)as the most effective and civilised way to eliminate absolute material deprivation and the risks to population well-being that it entails. Along with absolute control over our economic powers Scotland will not be the hollowed out vision offered by UKOK- independence is inevitable.
Sensibledave 7.50
‘Down here means testing is by self declaration and a signature’
So everybody living in England is honest then.
No army of enforcement bureaucrats to punish fraudulent claims? How very trusting and generous.
No wonder your NHS is cash strapped Dave
@ Will Podmore, who said that “the English are all reactionary!”, names please.
The problem is the right wing people of this country want to enjoy Scandinavian standards of living without paying Scandinavian rates of taxation.
They want a free NHS but vote for the party that promises to lower taxes.
In South Britain anyway.
Another reflection on the same problem …
http://www.scotsman.com/news/peter-jones-why-corbyn-is-far-from-unelectable-1-3842375
Dakk 9.30
We have a prescriptions exemption department that does random checks on a proportion of claimed exempt prescriptions and follow through to claim money back if found to be unjustified.
… All very civilised and based upon trusting citizens. Wouldn’t that work in Scotland?
Brian @ 7.57
… Perfectly ok Brian. Two things though. Firstly, you could start closer to home and give the SNP government a kicking for doing jack over the last 10 years or so. Useless bloody politicians. Secondly, if, as a party leader, you go on TV and tell people in England that your party won’t vote on fox hunting in in England – then they do – then expect to have to deal with charge that you are just another lying politician bereft of honesty and integrity .
bereft of honesty and integrity.
He’s reduced to the Python head on the ground, Brian, shouting “Come back! I can still bite your ankle!”
Hi Sensibledave.
I would have replied to you earlier, if I had recognised your reference to me. There’s more than one “Brian” posting here. If you want to refer to me, use ‘BDTT’ or ‘Doon’, and it will jump out at me.
8=)
Onnyhoo, you typed,
“Firstly, you could start closer to home and give the SNP government a kicking for doing jack over the last 10 years or so.”
Well, to be honest, as far as I’m aware, the Scottish government was placing a higher priority on mitigating the effects of UK government policy on humans, like how to relieve the effects of the bedroom tax, rather than worrying about native mammals.
Was that an error in priorities?
How’s this for a question:
“The Government should pursue policies to discourage house price inflation relative to people’s incomes and other assets they may own”
or
“The Government should pursue policies to remove the structural advantage enjoyed by dual-income households that produce no children”
I’d like to see what the answers would be to questions like that.
The English working class vote Tory. Scotland only got partial democracy in 2000. Westminster Unionist MP’s have been lying, greedy, murdering hypocrites for ever.
Brian Doonthetoon 12:10 am
You wrote: “Well, to be honest, as far as I’m aware, the Scottish government was placing a higher priority on mitigating the effects of UK government policy on humans, like how to relieve the effects of the bedroom tax, rather than worrying about native mammals. Was that an error in priorities?”
…. it rightly depends upon what the Government and people of Scotland want to do and prioritise.
Devolution has meant that Holyrood has been responsible for issues such as this for yonks now. If you are suggesting, in all of the time that the SNP has been in government in Scotland, there hasn’t been time to address issues such as this, then we must draw the conclusion that they are a pretty inefficient bunch I am afraid.
Lets be clear here, the only reason that the SNP decided to get involved in fox hunting in England was, totally contrary to what was said before the GE, that they could! Unfortunately, the whole thing back fired dramatically such that Ms Sturgeon proved that her capacity for moral pliability was as elastic as so many other politicians. We now know her word is as worthless as any others – and as I have said before, that is a disappointment and a shame.
Westminster Unionists useless. For the last hundred years and before, they have engaged in illegal wars all over the Universe. Westminster Unionists have lied, cheated and dishonestly crashed the world economy. Most should be in jail. They use the Official Secerets Act to cover up their duplicity and crime. Molesting, abusing and killing children. Starving the vulnerable to death,
They have wasted £Billions of public money and impoverished millions in Britain. They are a total disgrace. They can’t even go out public because they would be attack by the public. £Billions of public money is spent protecting these criminals from the public.
I only have one comment on the whole ‘SNP said they wouldn’t vote on England only laws.’
When you are effectively being dictated to in Scotland by a party that insists on conflating the Scottish Parliament with Westminster MPs from Scotland (who have absolutely no jurisdiction in the Scottish Parliament) while having only the barest of representation here I frankly could not care much less about the sensibilities of Westminster’s squeals of unfair or, indeed, the SNP former position that England only legislation would not be voted on. It was, after all, never anything more than a pragmatic decision previously. And with six MPs last time out, wouldn’t have made massive difference most of the time anyway.
Now, of course, the situation is that if the SNP don’t vote on things it’s kinda hard to see who will. Labour and Tory indulge in cozy agreements on who will vote half the time and Labour just don’t bother the rest of it.
Of course, where the old fox hunting bill is concerned, the threat of voting against it was enough to scare the Tories off introducing it. They didn’t actually vote.
There’s also a tiny wee line in the Act of Union that guarantees equal voting rights for all elected representatives; I do hope Mr Cameron isn’t thinking we’ve all forgotten about that.
Dippydave: Lets be clear here, the only reason that the SNP decided to get involved in fox hunting in England…
… is because they are charged with being a UK party and must carry out that function, otherwise there’s no basis for them to be there. Anybody arguing otherwise should take their whinging to the likes of Dan Snow and argue their case with them.
The next baseless smear from Dippydave on Scotland’s elected representatives is…
Fred asked, “who said that “the English are all reactionary!”, names please.
Ken500 wrote, “The English working class vote Tory.”
@ Will Podmore, now Will, that’s not quite the same thing, you’re looking for slights again where they don’t exist. I’ve worked with working class Tories, indeed they were in the majority in the Scotland of 50 years ago. Thankfully they are now an endangered species here, would that that was the case south of the Tweed!
How is the entryism coming along? hope you’ve parted with the £3 and are even now deep in subversion, & burrowing away at the Pimlico branch. 🙂
Entryism is a dishonest tactic. Trotskyists used to call it ‘boring from within’ – they were right in at least one sense … they were surely extremely tedious.