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Wings Over Scotland


Stop or we’ll say stop again

Posted on July 03, 2015 by

We’ll never tire of documenting the Daily Record’s increasingly panicked attempts to get David Cameron to enact the Record’s dodgy promise of last September and save it from having to answer for the pup it sold Scotland.

vowpish3

That one’s 30 September 2014, just 12 days after the vote.

vowpish2

And again the next day.

vowdelivers0

The following month the Record tried insisting that – although no law had been passed – “The Vow” had, in fact, already been delivered in full.

vowdeliveredslab

(In an unsuccessful attempt to help Scottish Labour in the election.)

seriouslydamage

So it was decidedly perplexing that by last month, the paper was suddenly warning of the dire consequences if the Unionist promises weren’t all kept. Hadn’t we been told quite expressly months before that they already had been?

nowvow

“We must… hold them to their promise”, said the Record, which would inescapably seem to suggest that the promise the paper called “a water-tight pledge” back in September had NOT been kept.

vowlabourbaillie

Despite what we’d been told in November by the Record and its pet political party.

“We – the people of Scotland – cannot allow Westminster to wriggle out of their obligation to deliver the Smith Commission proposals in word and spirit”, it added, as if it had been the people of Scotland, rather than the Daily Record, that had printed a fake-parchment front page swearing that the said obligation was the word of God and could not be wriggled out of.

Especially as it would be personally guaranteed by Gordon Brown.

vowpish5a

But just weeks later the paper was warning the Tories, whose knees were doubtless knocking, that “failure to deliver The Vow would have serious consequences”. (You know, the Vow we’d been told had already been delivered in full months before.)

recordmundell

And yesterday, the paper took out an extra-large editorial to assert that the promises made by the Secretary of State for Scotland just days earlier had been hollow.

(“His words could not have been clearer… unfortunately, Mundell’s actions since have provided no evidence whatsoever he meant them.”)

Later in the editorial, the paper said that the Prime Minister had a “moral obligation to live up to” the commitments made in The Vow. Again, that seems a clear statement that he hasn’t done so.

The Daily Record assured Scots that it was safe to vote No in the guaranteed certainty that the Unionists would keep their word and deliver the change Scotland wanted. It knew full well that that pledge might be in the hands of Tory government just a few months down the line. So just when will it bite the bullet and finally tell Scotland the truth with a front page screaming “THE VOW BETRAYED”?

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  1. 03 07 15 11:17

    Stop or we’ll say stop again | Speymouth

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222 to “Stop or we’ll say stop again”

  1. Lesley-Anne says:

    Ah great to see that the Mirror Group are continuing with their daily comic then. For a while there I thought it was going doing the plug hole … what’s that you say … it is …. it’s just other *ahem* activities that are keeping the comic afloat. Oh I see. 😀

  2. Andy Borland says:

    When hell freezes over?

  3. Jim watson says:

    More chance of hell freezing over then the record admitting it was wrong or for the tories to deliver the Vow…

  4. Brian Powell says:

    I had a twitter exchange with editor at the Daily Record some while back, and said the the DR was chained to the Vow, and would sink along with it. I was also commenting on the failure of the 4th Estate.

    He said the DR was happy to be chained to the Vow, they were proud of it.

    Now it seems it’s somebody else’s fault, though it might be that in their desperation, when Cameron says the vow is delivered, they might back him up. That would be fun to watch.

  5. gordoz says:

    Rev :
    So just when will it bite the bullet and finally tell Scotland the truth with a front page screaming “THE VOW BETRAYED”?

    The Record reply is sure to be > Never ! Never ! Never !
    Funnily enough in an Ulster accent also !

    Or is that Funnily Munnily ?? 🙂

  6. Jules says:

    The logic of the Daily Record’s position would be to say ‘we said vote No on the basis of a promise…that promise has now been broken. So we now back independence.

    Let’s see if that’s what happens.

  7. Training Day says:

    The Record hopes its readers are dumb enough to blame the Tories for the non-delivery of the Vow, despite the fact the Record told us last year it had already been delivered -and had therefore been delivered by the Tory/Lib coalition government!

    The Record may well be right about its readers.

  8. Taranaich says:

    You’d think as time passed you’d come to terms with the result of the referendum, and not be quite as angry. Yet I’ve found I’ve been getting angrier and angrier as the months go on. Even though we all knew this would happen, it still stings, and I get that hot flush of anger like lava running down my spine.

    (Nice title reference, btw)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ085yG1kTA

  9. Grouse Beater says:

    Why would anybody with half a brain believe Unionist MPs will never block or withdraw powers for Scotland in an attempt to undermine SNP popularity and influence?

    Why would anybody place their faith on what is printed on the front page of the Daily Record?

    Written a few months ago – still pertinent: https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/04/01/slipping-in-westminster-slop/

  10. auldmack says:

    ach weel yil hiv hid yer tea, mind tho that Mundelly chap wul be back fir the sugar afore lang.

  11. North Chiel says:

    The “vow” betrayal and 5 years under the “CON “SERF “ATIVES”.
    The “NO” vote reality for Scotland’s people.

  12. North Chiel says:

    The “vow” betrayal and 5 years under the “CON “SERF “ATIVES”.
    The “NO” vote reality for Scotland’s people.Thanks for everything “daily record”.

  13. No no no...Yes says:

    Clegg and Foote may have won an award for their work of fiction, but the whole charade is getting more embarrassing by the day. Apart from the negative impact the Vow failure and EVEL will have in Scotland, just how will the Record and more importantly, Labour in Scotland’s new leadership combo, try and spin this one at the Holyrood elections?

    The people of Scotland have lost trust in Labour and the Record, payback coming soon to a polling station near you,vote SNP.

  14. Ken500 says:

    The Daily Record isn’t even a newspaper. It’s ‘show biz’ trivia journal, full of nonsense. Just a waste of paper. Pointless. Just another example of a meaningless Press. It just annoys folk and makes them angry. To be avoided at all costs. The very sight of it makes folk puke.

  15. Frazzbo says:

    I see it’s “Cameron” now. The gloves are off and DR really means business: Westminster will be quaking.

  16. Macart says:

    Yeah, the unionist parties the Record were so very eager to please are leaving them holding the baby. Oh the irony.

    They have reneged on their pledges, will continue to do so and will compound this with draconian austerity and EVEL. The unionist politicians lied, the Record mislead on their behalf, as did pretty much 99.9% of the media and now with the natives decidedly not back in their box, the chickens are coming home to roost. The system and parties they advocated to the Scottish electorate are stabbing them in the back (seems to be a theme with establishment politicians).

    Karma – accept no substitutes.

  17. joe macfarlane says:

    Has the penny finally landed or is it still falling along with DR sales . Will it finally come out and admit DC is never going to fulfil the vow, and come out for indy , only if its masters allow it to.

  18. David Wardrope says:

    I take it we can assume that if the DR now seem to adopt a stance of attacking the Tories over failure to deliver that Vow of wet-toilet-paper-like integrity, that we have seen a glimpse into Scottish Labour’s mode of attack for the Holyrood elections next year.

  19. David McDowell says:

    Such is the sad state of affairs in Scotland that it is now nearly impossible to show a clear distinction between the new higher level of Scotland being sh** on as opposed to how Scotland has been sh** on in the past.
    The sh**ing on has been happening for so long large numbers of Scots neither notice nor, apparently, even care. They have been conditioned to accept they are second class citizens who deserve to be sh** on. It has become “normal” that Scotland will be sh** on and the assumption is there is nothing we can do about it. Yet if we complain, never mind oppose, we are further sh** on as “whining, uppity” Scots.
    I’ve had enough. Unless the SNP get their finger out and make appropriate noises about Scotland’s sovereign right to govern it’s my turn to do the sh**ing. Are you listening, Nicola?

  20. Macca73 says:

    I think a mock Daily Record should be made up with that very headline on it Rev. and put on an advertising truck and parked outside thier offices for all to see!

    Or perhaps a projection on the side of thier building so they can’t just “Remove it”

    Disgrace of a paper!!!

  21. Desimond says:

    And as they submerged, the dying frog looked at the drowing scorpion and asked “Why?, why did you sting me? You promised. Now You’ve killed us both!”.

    The Scorpion looked back, shrugged and said “Its my nature. Im a scorpion”

  22. As an “elderly” voter who well remembers the 1979 betrayal, when the “Vow” appeared my first thought was that all those of us who lived through that time would not be fooled by what was an obvious attempt, at least to me,to lie to us once again.
    And this is what stiil gets to me. Is there some truth in the assertion that some of us are “too stupid” to realise when we are being conned. Maybe there is,and while I don’t like to hear of my generation being blamed for us losing the referendum, just possibly it’s true. But I’m still at a loss to explain why.

  23. Auld Rock says:

    I listened to Bernard Ponsonsby ask the rhetorical question on Wednesday where he mused, ”And what happens if Scotland Bill does not deliver the Smith Commission or The Vow for that matter?” The question was as I said left hanging but I would suggests that the Grey Suits of the ‘English Rule OK Establishment’ get their heads out of their arses and take a look back and learn from history, Ireland, Cypress, Kenya, India, Burma, and on, and on. As Alex Salmond pointed out last year after the Referendum that the most outstanding thing about it had been the fact that not a bomb exploded or a bullet fired or anybody murdered (mind you I certainly felt like doing in a few)but a Nation’s Collective Fuse is only so long before it explodes!!!

    As for the Record I think that they are trying to do the impossible and reverse the flow of ‘The Tide’ they started with their ‘Vow’ last September. Ah well better clean and oil the AK47, LOL.

    Auld Rock

  24. From Grouse Beater’s essay:

    “Consequently, we should expect a Tory MP to advocate we send troops to die in yet another small arid country to ‘stop terrorism’ ignoring, of course, we are bombing them and innocents now in tandem with the USA by sending illegal drones.

    Next revelation to come will be how a phalanx of SNP MPs – early predictions show a wipe out of Labour in Scotland – are a pebble in a pond of 650 Westminster MPs. Every time an SNP MP stands up to speak they – that is Scotland – should expect to get booed, jeered, ridiculed, and generally spat upon.”

    Ten out of ten for prescience!

  25. DerekM says:

    If the Record thinks for a second that we the independence minded people of Scotland will forgive them for what they did they should think again.

    Its to late Record you made your bed now lie in it,you could as the Rev has said come out with “Scotland the vow was a unionist lie”and in doing so be actually telling the truth for once in your miserable life`s.

    But even doing that will not get our forgiveness you sold us down the river to the tories and for that you will never gain our trust,you are an enemy of the people of Scotland.

  26. heedtracker says:

    Takes you back though. Where I was Sept 18, the huge TV at the front desk at work had BBC world TV with a huge pouncing and posturing Gordon Brown raging away on stage in endless 10 minute UKOK loop of BBC says vote NO or else fury, with their ticker tape of lies creeping along bottom of the screen.

    Coordinated press and BBC/Project Fear/The VOW fraud, with “near federal Scotland” Gordon Brown rage? Or just twerpy creeps in newsrooms across their region, cooking up any old UKOK fraud. Or both maybe.

    Oddly enough my work got Project Feared by management too. Vote No or you lose great British funding and then it’s bye bye jobs sweaties. Good times.

  27. BrianW says:

    This post reads like a charge sheet.. proof indeed that the Record is just a shame of a paper (as if we needed the above to confirm that)

    Seeing it all laid out like this brings it home in one handy to scroll through post.

    Interesting that they compare a front page from 40 years ago to the present. They’ve been peddling the same auld pish for 40 years? And people still buy this? Sigh!

  28. BJ says:

    Just a headline to make people buy this paper.

    David Mundell is what he is, a lying Tory. Don’t expect anything he says or does to be good for Scotland.

  29. chris kilby says:

    “THE VOW BETRAYED”? The people of Scotland betrayed. By “Scotland’s Champion,” no less.

    (Oh, there will be “serious consequences” alright. Not least for Murray Foote & co. Dante dedicated an entire Circle of Hell to ("Tractor" - Ed)s; betrayal being the worst sin of all.)

  30. chris kilby says:

    @ Training Day:

    The Record hopes its readers are dumb enough to blame the SNP for the non-delivery of the Vow. Mark my words…

  31. chris kilby says:

    Just as a matter of interest, what has happened to the Record’s circulation since September 18th/May 7th? Up? Down? Unchanged…?

  32. chris kilby says:

    @ Macca73:

    “I think a mock Daily Record should be made up…”

    How would you tell the difference? The Record is a mockery already. It is a travesty of a mockery of a sham.

    (If you wiped yer arse wi’ the Record, mair shite wid come aff the paper!)

  33. generandell says:

    The SLAB fanzine, like SLAB itself is no longer relevant. The party is dead in Scotland and pretty much impotent in RUN.

    No amount of jesuitical style gymnastics by The Record will change this. It, along with, SLAB has aided and abetted The Tories in delivering what a NO vote promised, Scotland beneath Westminster’s colonial foot. With involvement in more and continuing dodgy military campaigns.

  34. Luigi says:

    @ Macca73:

    “I think a mock Daily Record should be made up…”

    “Scotland, we sold you a pup, Ha Ha Ha!”

  35. Luigi says:

    chris kilby says:

    3 July, 2015 at 11:01 am

    @ Training Day:

    The Record hopes its readers are dumb enough to blame the SNP for the non-delivery of the Vow. Mark my words…

    Indeed, right now, the Daily Record, BBC and the back-SLABbers (what’s left of them) will be sitting together, in their wee bunker, thinking hard how they can pin this on the SNP.

  36. Lesley-Anne says:

    Anyone up for a wee poll? 😉

    http://scottishindependence.com/

  37. Luigi says:

    How long before the following headline:

    “SNP MPs fail to protect the Vow”

  38. Marcia says:

    The truth hurts, Daily Record.

  39. chris kilby says:

    How can The Record survive this?
    How can Labour survive this?
    How can The Union survive this…?

  40. Luigi says:

    Much as I loathe Steve Bell, I think he nailed this one:

    http://tinyurl.com/puuvywc

  41. chris kilby says:

    @ Alex Beveridge:

    I think people believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. It’s as simple (and frustrating) as that.

  42. Grouse Beater says:

    Taranaich: I’ve found I’ve been getting angrier and angrier as the months go on.

    I can empathise with that sentiment.

    I know what we can do – send all our MPs to Westminster for a dose of humiliation and evasion, that’ll do the trick. They’ll listen to us then.

    If they don’t I’ll swat them on the head with a rolled up copy of the Daily Record – so there!

    Aye, right.

  43. Bob Mack says:

    You have to love the line
    “Treat Scotlands representatives with respect REGARDLESS of their political party”.

    The record has treated the people of Scotland with no respect whatsoever regardless of our political choices. We have been according to them deluded,cultish.fascists,misguided ,stupid.Not stupid enough to toe the line they mean for their own party of choice.
    Their days are surely numbered.

  44. chris kilby says:

    How much is a Daily Record these days? 13 pieces of silver…?

  45. r esquierdo says:

    I asked Alex Salmond the question at a public meeting. Should Murray Foote the editor of the Daily Record be charged with breaking the 2013 referendum act by allowing the Daily Record to print the vow during a period of Purdah.
    His answer was YES.So why has Mr Foote not been charged?.

  46. David McDowell says:

    How ungrateful we Scottish serfs are!

    In five years time our Imperial Masters will graciously allow us the chance to vote for a clean sweep of 59 SNP MPs. NO Scottish Unionist MPs at all! What could be fairer than that?!

    They’ll even allow us to watch as 300 Tories pile out of House of Commons bars every night to vote down whatever the 59 SNP MPs have spent eight hours “debating” earlier that day. What fun! We too can laugh as the 59 powerless SNP MPs squirm and fume.

  47. chris kilby says:

    “Ah-ha-ha! Ever get the feeling you’ve been cheated?”

    (John Lydon nee Rotten)

  48. frankieboy says:

    “Real Scots read the Record”…just another lie in a catalogue of lies spanning 40 years. Let’s face it, any newspaper that reports anything that anyone says as a ‘snarl’ ‘bemoan”growl’ roar’ ‘storms’ or ‘lauds’ has got to be shit.

  49. heedtracker says:

    Followers of localised UKOK propaganda might be interested to know that Aberdeen’s Press and Journal has taken the well worn route used by all propaganda machines everywhere and simply do not report, discuss, elude to anything EVEL.

    It’s an odd rag the P&J, after relentlessly savaging anything Scottish democracy for decades and reaching full vote NO or else hysterics last Sept, they’ve done the exact opposite extreme on EVEL. Fair enough its owned by super rich Tory boys and written by archetypal Tory boy shills but even so, very creepy bunch at Aberdeen Journals. P&J also famous for giving Tory boy Mike Gove his big break in his glittering career of Tory boy arse licking, Scotch cringing and counter jumping, the way only Tory boys can.

  50. gillie says:

    The Tories are shitting on Scotland and the Daily Record are only complaining about the smell.

    The VOW was only ever Brown STUFF, pun intended.

  51. Luigi says:

    r esquierdo says:

    3 July, 2015 at 11:29 am

    I asked Alex Salmond the question at a public meeting. Should Murray Foote the editor of the Daily Record be charged with breaking the 2013 referendum act by allowing the Daily Record to print the vow during a period of Purdah.
    His answer was YES.So why has Mr Foote not been charged?.

    Very good question. Intense pressure was building on Foote a few months ago (thanks to excellent work by WoS), but with all the GE excitement it seemed to fizzle out. Has all the Foote-work now been done as far as possible or is there anything else that can be done to nail him?

  52. chris kilby says:

    @ frankieboy:

    “Real Scots read the Record”

    The implication being if you don’t read the Record you can’t be “a real Scot.”

    (What was that about the last refuge of the scoundrel again…?)

  53. Jack Murphy says:

    chris kilby says at 11:03
    “Just as a matter of interest, what has happened to the Record’s circulation since September 18th/May 7th? Up? Down? Unchanged…?”

    Up to March this year the daily average paid circulation was 191,000,a fall of 11% since March last year.

    These figures exclude the giveaway freebies—-Buy One Get One Free or whatever. 🙂

  54. galamcennalath says:

    Consigning to landfill always seems a poor way of getting rid of rubbish. You’d think we could do something greener with the crap we want rid off.

    Then again, some things are just so disgusting that perhaps they should be stuck in a deep hole and covered over, hidden and forgotten about.

    We’re going to need a BIGGER hole! The Union, the Scotland Office, the BBC, the Daily Record, …..

  55. ArtyHetty says:

    Alex Beveridge@10.51am

    Unfortunately Alex there are many who voted no around where we live who would definitely vote no again, all very comfortably retired and well off. Had their FREE DEGREES, good jobs, early retirement, cheap mortgages, free bus, 100s toward their fuel bills and now WM are protecting their pensions, why would they change anything.

    I was having a cup of tea ( bit like visiting the queen, who they love too btw, :() with some retired neighbours this week, no voters, who said we are too poor etc.

    The woman, was complaining that her medication for a condition she has was stopped for ‘health reasons’ by her Dr. Her gripe? She thinks they might have stopped it to save money, I quote, “I mean, I didn’t have to pay for it”, while looking at me as though to say, ‘you see free health care that you yes voters wanted, has meant the NHS has taken my medication away!’ Yep, and duh.

    Some people are quite daft and they have cosy lives,but what upsets me is they have condemned the young to a huge uphill almost impossible struggle,(yes yes they struggled too) to very low wages if any and a diminishing of any notion of a healthy social and economic system in which to live. The skilled young will continue to leave Scotland, and 2020 will be too late to mend the broken system.

    We need Independence very soon.

  56. call me dave says:

    But there was no VOW the record made it all up. Surely no my neighbour says “shurley shome mishtake”!

    I have suggested to said neighbour that maybe I won’t be getting her daily record every morning, nothing personal you understand.
    🙁

    I’m vowed out, even though I expected and accept that our 56 MPs will be voted down at every opportunity. Better days ahead just keep on keeping on.

    PS:

    “It would be proper and convenient for the legal debate at least to take place here rather than us troop up to Orkney.”

    https://archive.is/mFs5m

  57. Joemcg says:

    Yep, remember the 18th well with Brown pacing up and down that stage with threats rolling along the bottom of the screen on BBC ALL day. Was thinking what the hell is going on here? And the Brits take the pish out of tin pot dictatorship countries the world over yet they live in one.

  58. galamcennalath says:

    gillie says:
    “The VOW was only ever Brown STUFF”

    I visualise a billboard. Pics of the vow parchment and Federal Gordy … And that caption.

  59. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I watched The Who play Glastonbury at the weekend.

    They have given us our anthem for Indyref 2 – let’s make sure: We Don’t Get Fooled Again.

  60. Luigi says:

    chris kilby says:

    3 July, 2015 at 11:55 am

    @ frankieboy:

    “Real Scots read the Record”

    The implication being if you don’t read the Record you can’t be “a real Scot.”

    (What was that about the last refuge of the scoundrel again…?)

    It is incredibly easy to obtain free copies of the DR these days. Nobody wants to read them. They can’t even give them away!

  61. Gavin says:

    Before the referendum I often heard people of a yes voting persuasion stating that if we voted no we would get nothing.

    That’s exactly what we got ! Nothing !

    When the next referendum comes around we won’t be fooled again. The unionists won’t be able to play the “vote no get more powers” card again.

    Vote SNP in 2016.

  62. Luigi says:

    Socrates MacSporran says:

    3 July, 2015 at 12:10 pm

    I watched The Who play Glastonbury at the weekend.

    They have given us our anthem for Indyref 2 – let’s make sure: We Don’t Get Fooled Again.

    Excellent idea.

  63. Robert Peffers says:

    @David McDowell says: 3 July, 2015 at 10:48 am:

    ” … Are you listening, Nicola?”

    Nicola probably is listening, Dasvid, but are you?

    BTW: What time does your the 77 Brigade shift change?

  64. Harry McAye says:

    I was going to write to them to say, well, what did you expect? Did you trust the Tories to deliver this vow? Oh that’s right you unbelievably thought Ed Miliband would win the election for Labour and they would then deliver it. But why did you place any trust in Westminster anyway, regardless of who gets to govern? Has history taught you nothing? We could have been free of this for ever, free of tory rule for ever, if you had backed a Yes vote. But you didn’t. You obviously prefer decades of Tory rule than Scotland taking control of it’s own destiny. So quit moaning, this is what you wanted and this is why thousands of readers have deserted your paper and will never buy it again as long as they live.

    But I couldn’t be arsed.

  65. Petra says:

    Foote, Clegg and Chrichton gone from strutting around like peacocks to looking like cornered rats.

    They hoped of course that Labour would win but in their own inimical way contributed to its downfall. Now they’re left to pick up the pieces and decide what to do next … continue to lie through their teeth, try to shift the blame onto someone else (SNP) or tell the truth?

    No matter what course of action they decide to take now they are finished in Scotland like Labour (Brown, Murphy, Curran, Sarwar, Lamont et al), the Tories, the Libdems and the BBC …. the Westminster Union is following closely behind ….. if you sow the wind be prepared to reap the whirlwind as the proverb says.

    However I just want to mention here that because of their despicable actions many innocent people will now be losing their jobs, some whom I know were yes voters in fact. People who had no say in what the Daily Record triad were doing. I hope these three are the first to go.

  66. r esquierdo says:

    Luigi says Is there anything else can be done to nail him.

    Yes you can go into Police Scotland website and complain that Mr Murray Foote has broken the 2013 act. The reason I did not do it is because I have an ongoing inquiry into a complaint I made against a politician and can I tell you the politician was never heard again speaking down Scotland. I informed the Rev at the time when I lodged my complaint.

  67. G H Graham says:

    Let me paraphrase the Daily Record’s editor the day before the Vow was published …

    “Look, we need to come up with some sort of huge bribe, like the one London used in 1707 to seal the Act of Union. There’s no gold this time but our gullible readers still need to swallow it hook, line & sinker, otherwise, Scotland will become an independent country.”

    “That would be bad for London, bad for the Queen & bad for Rangers. It also makes the chance of me getting a knighthood even slimmer. We can’t let that happen, so I have a cunning plan.”

    “It’s called a Vow. We’ll fake it so that it looks like a piece of parchment & stick it on the front page with some waffle backed by the three stooges. They had one in the movie, ‘Pirates of the Caribbean’ & some idiots thought that was a documentary.”

    “I know, it’s sounds shite but if we can get that old duffer, Gordon Brown to sign it & somehow get Cameron & that two faced chancer, Clegg on board, we might just be able to pull it off.”

    “I know, Brown was the worst PM we’ve ever had but there some unemployed people in Kirkaldy who still think the sun shines out his arse. And he has that grumpy, dictatorial style your grandpa used when his false teeth didn’t fit properly at the dentist.”

    “So, what do you think?”

  68. dakk says:

    Never mind ‘the vow betrayed’ or even the Daily Record betrayed Scotland, it doesn’t have a vote,it’s a unionist Brit nat rag.No more,no less.

    Scotland was betrayed by every single No voter,especially the weak minded ‘Scots’ who were/are influenced by unionist liars like the DR and their ilk.

  69. Robert Peffers says:

    @BrianW says: 3 July, 2015 at 10:55 am:

    “Interesting that they compare a front page from 40 years ago to the present. They’ve been peddling the same auld pish for 40 years? And people still buy this? Sigh!”

    Way back in 1946, when as still a schoolboy, I decided that my parents were wrong in supporting Labour and I became a life-long Scottish nationalist I had a semi-rural paper round.

    This allowed me the luxury of reading the next paper I had to shove through the next distant letter box. I can say, without fear of contradiction, ” … the Record have been peddling the same auld pish for 40 69 years.”

  70. Onwards says:

    Of course they know that all future vows are worthless.

    If we get a second referendum they will try to bribe Scots with the VOW 2. Son of Vow.

    Will folks allow themselves to get fooled again?

  71. Petra says:

    @ Robert Peffers says at 12:34 pm ”Way back in 1946 …. I had a semi-rural paper round ….. This allowed me the luxury of reading the next paper I had to shove through the next distant letter box. I can say, without fear of contradiction, ” … the Record have been peddling the same auld pish for (40) 69 years.”

    Robert you’re giving your age away, lol.

  72. mr thms says:

    I wonder if warning of ‘dire consequences’ is the Daily Record’s way of saying it will support independence?

  73. Joemcg says:

    Onwards-surely any talk of another Vow will never be accepted now?? We really would have to be pretty dense to swallow that.

  74. Its about time the record understood that its responsible for the solemn vow that it printed and appeared on its front page and no one else.

    These desperate unionists political leaders would have signed and said anything to win the referendum.

    What they certainly would not allow themselves to do, as we have subsequently seen from Cameron is to be bound by anything they promised in the heat of a referendum campaign, particularly a promise on a vow concocted by a newspaper.

  75. Robert Peffers says:

    @BJ says: 3 July, 2015 at 10:56 am:

    ” … David Mundell is what he is, a lying Tory. Don’t expect anything he says or does to be good for Scotland”

    The laughable thing is that Mundell is so simple minded he blunders on doing exactly what his Unionist superiors tell him to do – without ever questioning that what is good for them is not so very good for David Mundell.

    Tick! Tock! Tick! Tock! Boing!

  76. Mealer says:

    Who bothers with the Dirty Redcoat these days?

  77. Bigheid says:

    Of course we all get angry when we watch what the Tories are doing to us with the help of rags like the DR, even although we knew this would happen on the 19th Sept last year.

    However, I am laughing as I want more please! Indy2 is the only thing on my mind and how we get to it. What they are doing is creating an express bus for us to get on when I thought the journey would take ten years are so.

    To the Tories and UK Media – thank you!

  78. Aos says:

    Reading the Record’s Facebook page regarding this morning’s headline, the comments have left me looking for mind bleach! Need to go lie down in a darkened room 🙁

  79. galamcennalath says:

    @Joemcg
    @Onwards

    “another Vow” for Indyref2?

    I think everyone accepts two things won Indyref1 for NO – Project Fear and The Vow (and all the DevoPlusPlus which went with it).

    For Indyref2, the is no way they can offer DevoMore and be taken seriously.

    They will try Project Fear 2. However many of the scare stories will be seen as unfounded next time. Also, some of the threats of Yes/Indy have actually come to pass with Tory/No! Anyway, fear of Indy will be balanced out by fear of Tory cuts for many this time.

    It really is very difficult to see what tactics BT2 have left to deploy next time.

  80. heedtracker says:

    Its about time the record understood that its responsible for the solemn vow that it printed and appeared on its front page and no one else.

    They could begin some kind of UKOK redemption and explain clearly to their lucky readership that EVEL means that Scottish MP”s will soon no longer be able vote on UKOK public sector spending, from the Scottish NHS to Scotish education, it’s all now decided by English MP’s only. Huzzah.

    But they won’t, most powerful devolved parliament that’s ever been seen in the whole universe, rejoice you lucky lucky sweaties/suckas, it was the Daily Record wot won it, for teamGB.

  81. Fiona says:

    It is enough to make me start thinking about whether there is any way I can withhold all tax and send it directly to holyrood. Sadly there isn’t. What about a tea party at Pacific Quay?

  82. Macart says:

    Indyref2 as and when it happens. Any statement, any promise, any sound bite, any VOW issued by the unionist campaign can, with a fair degree of accuracy, be met with the words ‘I’d like to believe you but…’, if you’re feeling diplomatic.

    Or mibbies simply liar, liar pants on fire if you’re not. 🙂

  83. Dr Jim says:

    I listened with interest to Lord Jim Wallace Of Tankerness in the Lords tell us exactly why David Mundell employed Prof Adam Tomkins as his special advisor

    It seems that because of Prof Tomkins particular skill set his function is to find ways of undermining the Scottish Governments ability to Constitutionally challenge the Conservatives in the courts using changes to the Proposed Civil Rights Laws

    Even Lord Wallace is less than enchanted with that idea
    More Mr Peffers neck of the woods this one

  84. osakisushi says:

    I had lunch with someone I’ve avoided since IndieRef. He’s a Rangers supporting, flag waving, NO voter and, unfortunately a family member.

    Apparently not a day goes by without him regretting his vote choice.
    It does make me wonder whether the impetus for IndieRef2 needs to come from folk like him who realise they were lied to.

    Importantly though, it gives hope for the future. I live in a “white settler” area which is adorned with For Sale signs as the wise NO voting retirees wish return to their native country before the inevitable happens.

  85. heedtracker says:

    So am thinking Scotland’s champion EVEL headline will be, as massed ranks of ruddy faced tweeded up shiretories vote aye to EVEL, along with all the red tory drips and as Scotland becomes almost totally disenfranchised

    SCOTLAND’S CHAMPION SEZ

    NO TAXATION WITHOUT REPRESENTATION SCOTLAND.

    But its unlikely these gimps will have the guts to be honest about how Westminster is now annihilating Scottish democracy. Bowler hat brigade will love it.

  86. gordoz says:

    Status Quo of Union means

    Scotlands future remains in Englands hands (sadly)

  87. galamcennalath says:

    A slogan as part of IndyRef2 aimed at those who were taken in by The Vow (and Project Fear) might be …

    “Fool you once, shame on them; fool you twice, shame on you”

    ….. or perhaps a gentler more inclusive, don’t scare the horses, version ….

    “Fool us once, shame on them; fool us twice, shame on us”

  88. Robert Peffers says:

    @Petra says: 3 July, 2015 at 12:49 pm:

    “Robert you’re giving your age away, lol.”

    Och! Lass, I’m not at all bothered by my age or my looks either. I have never attempted to fool others and I’ve no intention of attempting to fool myself. I’m me and I take me as I am but on the good side I also accept and judge everyone else by the same criterion.

    I don’t give a damn if the person wears the crown of Scotland or cleans the toilets at the local working men’s club. I’ll treat them equally as fellow human beings until, or unless, they prove otherwise.

    Even when they prove otherwise I’m usually inclined to be prepared to give them another chance to prove me wrong.

    One of the finest human beings I ever met was a retired man who cleaned the toilets in the York Railway Workers Social Club. Another chap in that club said to me, “What are you doing sitting with him for – he’s just the toilet cleaner.

    Later on I discovered that the toilet cleaner was a retired man who owned several large properties in York and he had converted them into flats that he let out at very honest rates to those in the most need in the community – including one to the guy who was looking down his nose at the toilet cleaner. The guy had taken on the cleaner job because the club couldn’t find anyone to do the job in those days of full employment.

    He was fairly rich and supported several charities that looked after the most unfortunate of people. A humble and lovely human being with a very big heart.

  89. ClanDonald says:

    The Daily Record wasn’t complaining last week when it became apparent that Westminster wasn’t going to deliver on the permanence of the Scottish parliament promises or on watered down plans to devolve things like the Crown Estate.

    They’re only complaining about all this today because this time the Labour Party are pissed off at a few things and their Scottish MP will be neutered at Westminster.

    Total hypocrites. Still sticking up for the Labour party who only a quarter of Scotland voted for whilst not giving a toss for what the rest of Scotland wants.

  90. Scots Renewables says:

    NoTruth:

    What makes you think the For Sale signs are ‘white settlers’ wishing to ‘return to their native country’ ?

    As an (almost) lifelong Scot, SNP voter for 40+ years, YES campaigner and possessor of a still noticeably English accent I have to say I do not think the use of terms like that is helpful.

    Only today on another forum I saw some (English) tosspot arguing that tourism in Scotland was down because the English were ‘scared’ to come to Scotland. This is thanks to anti-English garbage in the English media. We need to take great care not to fuel that in any way.

    I was as disappointed as anyone on September 19th last year, but we may (sooner than we thought) need to get everyone in Scotland on board for IndyRef2. Brandishing weaponised words like tractor and continually harping on that it was the geriatric ‘white settler’ vote that did for us is not helpful, even if the latter is true.

  91. Robert Peffers says:

    @Joemcg says: 3 July, 2015 at 12:53 pm:

    “Onwards-surely any talk of another Vow will never be accepted now?? We really would have to be pretty dense to swallow that.”

    Aiblins I’ve been around too long, Joemcg, but as such I’ve few delusions about my fellow Scots. One thing I’m sure of is that there are indeed a percentage of those Scots who will, without doubt, go on being fooled and will thus go on making the same mistakes over and over again. Always expecting a different outcome.

    It’s a bit like addiction. How many time does the drinker say, “Never Again”, when waking up with a hangover? How many times does the gambler vow not to waste hard earned cash on daft bets? What of the junkie who keeps trying and failing to kick the habit and eventually overdoses one last time?

  92. JLT says:

    These are rather interesting days. It’s quite funny in one sense to have Westminster shout at Scotland ‘No! No! No!’ at every request while one half of Scotland just gives Cameron and et al the 1,000 yard stare.

    This is going to end in tears one way or another. Every dog has its day …and I honestly do believe that we will have ours. It’s coming.

  93. Spout says:

    Re: Scots Renewables

    “I was as disappointed as anyone on September 19th last year, but we may (sooner than we thought) need to get everyone in Scotland on board for IndyRef2. Brandishing weaponised words like tractor and continually harping on that it was the geriatric ‘white settler’ vote that did for us is not helpful, even if the latter is true.”

    Well said!

  94. Robert Peffers says:

    @Fiona says: 3 July, 2015 at 1:25 pm:

    ” … It is enough to make me start thinking about whether there is any way I can withhold all tax and send it directly to holyrood. Sadly there isn’t.”

    Now you know why the Labour Party started to favour indirect taxation over direct taxation and why every UK government since has embraced and continued that process.

    Indirect taxation not only swaps the main burden of taxation from the rich to the poor but it is virtually impossible for the poor to use high paid accountants to evade direct taxation.

  95. Fred says:

    Folks, if you haven’t already, please sign the Save St Abbs Lifeboat petition and save lives. It’s a Facebook thing so no link from me unfortunately.

  96. manandboy says:

    Nick Dearden is Director of Global Justice Now and has an article in todays National about supporting the Greeks in the event of a No vote on Sunday. Please read it.

    If it is true that the Euro may collapse if Greece is pushed out of the EU, then it is equally true that the EU may collapse if Scotland becomes Independent due to the consequences for rUK. Hence the reason why Europe heaved a sigh of relief when Scotland ‘voted’ No.

    We are now witnessing a post ‘job done’ period in which clearing up the mess left behind by the Vow is last on Cameron’s ‘to do’ list.

    But what the Greek crisis shows is that Europe could not take the risk of Scotland gaining Independence anymore than Westminster could. Once IndyRef14 is moved onto the European chess board, it is easier to see why it could not be allowed to threaten the Euro King.

    Please read Nick Reardon’s article pp28-29.

  97. Scott Borthwick says:

    Fred, the Save St.Abbs Lifeboat petition is on Change.org. Link below.

    https://www.change.org/p/rnli-keep-st-abbs-lifeboat-station-open

  98. nodrog says:

    @Lesley-Anne says: 11.14 “Anyone fancy a wee poll.”

    I suggested 15th July one week after the Thatcherite budget has sunk in.

  99. gordoz says:

    Scots Renewables – Concur with your views bud !

    Our Argument is with UK / Westminster Control – Rule

    All : Better to use the above as a target moniker.

    (See one – Mr Alex Salmond for advice / direction in that area !)

    Many among our ranks hail from south of the border and totally get our cause.

    Care at all times please – Christ are we Scots not touchy in return about derogatory remarks intended (or otherwise)?

  100. Paula Rose says:

    How do we describe those who support Westminster rule both north and south of the border?

    It can’t be British for obvious reasons.

    Those who support the UK in Scotland like the term “unionists” – personally I think it should be Ukish or Ukist.

  101. Les Wilson says:

    Here is European democracy at work, “Euro area to push for debt deal, even if Greeks say no!” “Quote Bloomberg”

    So democracy is clearly not something the financial bods across the Euro area actually believe in. Something we should remember.

    However there was a precedent when Ireland voted no, the would not accept a no, and wangled another referendum.

    Which, packed up with propaganda got them a yes. I remember at the time, that if there was a second no, they were going to push for a third, a neverendum until the got what they wanted.

    So let’s be careful of thinking that those who control these things have any real interest in democracy.

  102. Andy-B says:

    The snivelling Daily Record is trying to get voters back onside, do the likes of Murray Foote, and Torcuil Crichton think that folk are stupid enough to actually believe them?

    To many many people the Daily Record (Scotlands champion aye right!) is finished as a newspaper.

    Once a Judas, always a Judas.

  103. galamcennalath says:

    Paula Rose says:
    “How do we describe those who support Westminster rule both north and south of the border?”

    I tend to feel the two groups, North and South, see themselves differently. With that, they see the Union, their place in the Union, and support for the Union differently.

    It may go back 100s of years. Scots would describe themselves as North British, however no one down south EVER referred to themselves as South British.

    I doubt if until recently our southern neighbours referred to themselves at British, they were usually English. And therefore, most of the world followed suit and called them English! From that, other inhabitants of the British archipelago who were not English, did and still do sometimes get called English.

    The best thing to call someone, is perhaps what they call themselves.

    Again, to differentiate between North and South, there are folks in Scotland (& NI) who call themselves Unionists but I doubt if anyone in England calls themselves a Unionist! The label is universally understood and accepted, when referring to a supporter of the Union … beyond England.

    Inside England? You know, I suspect there may be fewer folk than we think down there who actually care about the Union!

  104. heedtracker says:

    Those who support the UK in Scotland like the term “unionists” – personally I think it should be Ukish or Ukist

    U Koks.

  105. osakisushi says:

    Scots Renewables

    Unfortunately, I stay in Argyll and this situation is all too common. My immediate neighbours went on the market when the referendum was announced as they wish to move back to Brighton. They had not planned to retire to a foreign country and have been quite vocal about it. Their house remains unsold but they reduced the asking price slightly following GE15.

    In conversation with the bloke who hammers in For Sale signs, this situation is painfully common in Argyll. I just hate seeing the area blighted by so many estate agent signs. But I guess that’s the price we pay for living in a nice area people opted to retire to.

    I will admit, had I moved to NI for my twilight years and a movement started to unite with the South and leave the UK, I’d probably be against it and wish to move away.

  106. Chic McGregor says:

    The net NO of English born Scots was around 120,000 votes. That was nowhere near enough to have made the difference.

    It would have had to have been nearly as close as 49%:51% for that.

  107. neil says:

    Everywhere you go, pick up three copies of The National, place two over the pile of records, buy one. Every little helps.

  108. Paula Rose says:

    @ Chic McGregor – Do you have data/stats/link that shows that? Would be great to knock the “English No vote won it” silliness on the head.

  109. woosie says:

    The record will never change its view on independence, because it’s merely a tool for its owners; if sales continue to fall, they will close it.
    The National could speed this up by including a racing section! It’s the only thing that’s missing for an average working man, and the only reason I took the dr for 40 years. I’ve written to the National on this without reply.

  110. Brian Powell says:

    Dr Jim

    Jim Wallace can’t complain, he voted for this. Tomkins is an out and out Tory colonialist, Wallace is a sellout, whose main concern during the Referendum was keeping his seat in the Lords.

  111. @Chic McGregor at 4:20pm

    Hi Chic (or anyone), is there a reliable demographic breakdown of the IndyRef vote available anywhere? I’ve seen various factoids about who voted which way, in the papers and elsewhere, it would be good to see an overall breakdown.

    Cheers

  112. Capella says:

    @ Scunterbunnet

    Lord Ashcroft took a poll just after the Referendum.

    http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2014/09/scotland-voted/

  113. Schrödinger's cat says:

    Prediction
    The establishment will contrive, one way or other, to save Carmichael and mundell. Case dismissed

    But remember, we don’t need to win……we just need to fight

    Retribution will come in other ways, the lib dems still need to fight an election in both Orkney and Shetland in 10 months time…..

  114. heedtracker says:

    Tomkins is an out and out Tory colonialist,

    If EVEL goes through, gits like Tomkinski are going to be tied up in all kinds of liar liar pants on bettertogether fire knots, as his tweets show.

    Confused? Welcome to the future of tory boy teamGB and their BBC etc are going to ram this nightmare down our throats. But we’re only a tiny percentage of teamGB, so who gives a fcuk what we think. Indy ref2 will only get ProjectFeared tae fcuk anyway. It’s how British power works.

    Adam Tomkins ?@ProfTomkins Jul 2

    All MPs are equal. #EVEL does nothing to disturb this. But not all laws are equal, and that is what EVEL finally, belatedly, recognises.

  115. Schrödinger's cat says:

    Osbornes emergency budget will hammer the scots

    No question about it

    Question
    If holyrood have no choice but to cut either free university places or free health care for th/prescriptions/bus passes…..which would you chose?

    Thems the choices headed our way whether you like them or not

    Feel free to continue ranting at the ssp and sgp, the really divisive issues are still in the post folks

  116. Petra says:

    Wow the Austrians now asking for an in / out EU Referendum! Looks as though that establishment may be beginning to disintegrate too ….. or have to change dramatically.

    This Austrian petition will be putting the wind up Merkel / the Troika and well timed re. Greece.

  117. Tinto Chiel says:

    “How do we describe those who support Westminster rule both north and south of the border?” asks Paula Rose.

    They are Ukokians and they spout Ukokery.

    Nice to see Wee Mun’ell again on the fragrant pages of the DR, always the wee Scotch monkey on the English organ-grinder’s barra and effortlessly living down to our expectations.

    Never mind, EVEL will speed up the clock.

    Ticka Ticka Timex.

  118. Ken500 says:

    NO voters moving out of Scotland? Scotland population is increasing since Devolution. After being depopulated for years by Westminster centralist economic policies which favoured London S/E. That is why Scotland was depopulated while London S/E is so congested people can’t breathe.

    Thatcher/Unionists/Gov of BoE, ‘ Unemployment in the North and Scotland was a price worth paying for jobs and prosperity in London S/E. Thatcher had 3 million unemployed, interest rates at 15% and irresponsibly deregulated the Banks causing a major bank crash.

    Major described the Tories as ‘Bastards’.

  119. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    3 July, 2015 at 4:51 pm
    @ Scunterbunnet

    Lord Ashcroft took a poll just after the Referendum.

    “Finally, for how long do Scottish voters think the question of independence will remain settled? A majority of those who voted No said they thought the issue was now resolved for at least a generation (28%) or forever (25%). Yes voters disagree: more than six in ten said they thought the matter was settled for no more than ten years, including nearly half (45%) who thought the question would remain closed for no more than five years.”

    What a difference their THE VOW fraud makes. or maybe not. Ashcroft’s polsters will tell us very soon, across the Atlantic in serial tax dodger’s paradise of Balize.

    Ashcroft must one greedy bastard of a tory to dodge UKOK taxes in London that sucks in so many other super rich elitists.

  120. FairFerfochen says:

    We had a rather sinister individual trolling our YES shop during the wee small hours in the months and weeks leading up to the referendum who posted articles from the Daily Record and the Daily Mail with pertinent statements underlined and highlighted all wrapped up in little union flags.

    Wonder how this chump is feeling now.

    P.S. Recently the owner of a nearby hotel came to us with some private CCTV coverage which nelped us identify the culprit but decided not to prosecute purely due to us knowing he’d be eating those words soon enough.

  121. gus1940 says:

    You ain’t seen nothing yet – just wait till the Tories’ Scotland Bill reaches another place where the denizens get £300 per day plus expenses and where there is no SNP representation.

    Is it not amazing that even after 308 years of the wonderful Union there is still no generally accepted word (noun that is – I don’t count ‘British’ which is an adjective)for a citizen of The UK. What is missing is something to follow ‘I am a ‘?’).

    All we have is ‘Brit’ which if I am correct was a term of derision coined by Irish Republicans.

  122. Mealer says:

    Gus 1940 5.32
    The word you’re looking for is “neep”.

  123. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Chic McGregor

    “The net NO of English born Scots was around 120,000 votes. That was nowhere near enough to have made the difference.”

    Without those 120,00 NO would still have won:

    53.77% NO – 46.23%

    It is not about people who settle here from elsewhere–the biggest barrier to Indy is convincing the soft NOs who have always lived here. They are our priority. No one else.

  124. IvMoz says:

    How do we describe those who support Westminster rule both north and south of the border?

    UK Unionists North To South

    UKUNTS

  125. Ken500 says:

    Ashcroft gets paid £Millions (including public money) for these inaccurately analysed Polls. They are used to gerrymander and influence the vote. Public Polls, which are inaccurately used by MSM should be banned in the Purdah period. The Bookie use them to rip of punters, getting tipped off through insider information.

  126. Nana Smith says:

    O/T

    Looks like referendums are popular right now. Anyone hearing this on the news anywhere?

    Steven Woolfe MEP ?@Steven_Woolfe · Jul 2
    Congratulations @MarcoValliM5S @Marcozanni86@M5S_Europa delivering 200k petition on Italian referendum to leave Euro

  127. Stoker says:

    So, the DR’ latest circus stunt seems to involve frantically backpedaling whilst simultaneously attempting to pass the buck.

    To all at the DR,
    You are a bunch of liars who helped London destroy our referendum and keep Scotland shackled to the warmongering Westminster parasites.

    By doing so you have actively helped to keep weapons of mass destruction in Scotland and therefore made us a direct target in the event of any attacks or accidents.

    By doing so you have actively helped to keep unnecessary high levels of poverty among Scotland’s people.

    By doing so you have actively helped London to inflict several years of unnecessary austerity cuts on the people of Scotland.

    By doing so you have actively given approval to the retention of the parasitical and unnecessary House of Lords.

    By doing so you have actively played your part in ensuring the people of Scotland are continuously controlled and lied to by a foreign media which is lead by yourselves and the BBC.

    By doing so you have actively campaigned to keep Scotland subservient to London and their Mundell Murray gophers for ever more.

    You have made us a laughing stock and impotent on every stage imaginable.

    We shall never forget nor forgive – GIRFUY’

  128. David says:

    FairFerfochen at 5:19pm, the person posting stuff on the outside of your Yes shop may have been doing similar (or worse) things to other properties.

    It might be worthwhile to either let him know that he was ‘caught on camera’ or show the camera evidence to the police, so they can give him a warning about his future conduct.

    Best to nip it in the bud. Don’t let him think he got away ‘Scot free’.

  129. Ken500 says:

    Tompkins is an unelected liar, who bring academia into disrepute. Who is doing his lectures and research will he is spending 6 weeks on the Smith Commision, broadcasting and political campaigning while Scottish taxpayers pay his not inconsiderable salary. He is so biased, he is falling over. The only one who can’t see that is himself. Not good at elementary Maths either.

  130. Robert Peffers says:

    @Paula Rose says: 3 July, 2015 at 3:50 pm:

    “How do we describe those who support Westminster rule both north and south of the border?”

    I have heard a fair number of suggestions, Paula Rose but would prefer not to repeat them here.

    “It can’t be British for obvious reasons.”

    Agreed but some of those suggestions I’ve heard do use the term in the first part of the phrase.

    “Those who support the UK in Scotland like the term “unionists” – personally I think it should be Ukish or Ukist.”

    Yeah! But! If we call them that we will have to change it after Scotland leaves and thus ends the UK.

    Here’s my best shot, “English Unionists”, for the Kingdom of England, all three countries of it, is what will comprise what is the Status Quo Ante post the union dissolving.

  131. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    What happened to “Britnat”?

  132. Graham MacLure says:

    Gus 1940

    I go back to a saying from my youth,

    “Fit dae ye expec frae a bull’s erse but shit”,possibly clad in ermine but still sharn.

  133. Tinto Chiel says:

    “It is not about people who settle here from elsewhere–the biggest barrier to Indy is convincing the soft NOs who have always lived here. They are our priority. No one else.”

    Exactly so, Proud Cybernat. And any attempt to restrict voting in a future referendum to “echt” Scots gives our enemies a big ethnic smear campaign against us and completely undermines the SNP’s civic nationalism approach of the last forty years or so. It would also disqualify large numbers of Non-Scots who voted Yes: we all met them in the campaign and they were a godsend to the movement.

    Our problem is getting our own Britjocks to acquire a bit of self respect and finally accept how poisonous this Union is. Impending events at WM should do the trick for many of them.

  134. Ken500 says:

    Latest irrational outburst by LabourUnionist Willy Young. ‘Aberdeen don’t even get a fiver -‘ P & J unique reporting. Should have gone to Speckysavers.

    Aberdeen/shire got a commitment of £Millions for the AWPR. The Greens wasted £Millions of public money trying to stop it on behalf of the feudal Landowner. Labour/Unionists voted against it for thirty years and underfunded Aberdeen/shire 30% of every other council allocation for over thirty years.

  135. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 3 July, 2015 at 4:19 pm:

    “Those who support the UK in Scotland like the term “unionists” – personally I think it should be Ukish or Uki”

    So what are you going to call them when the bipartite UK reverts to two separate Kingdoms? After all we Scots are UK members at the moment all, Scots, Welsh, N.Irish and English will all be ex-UKish after separation.

  136. heedtracker says:

    Tompkins is an unelected liar, who bring academia into disrepute.

    We saw the ukok poop sandwich this week, BBC debate, 3 unionists against one vile separatist, Murray, Tomkinski, Carmichael.

    Prof T’s the one to watch though. It’s what he’s terrified of saying out loud as in, there is not a chance in hell Scotland will become an independent country with a PR parliament and a strong economy. Because if Scotland does it, England will want one too.

    Just too many billionaires, very powerful lords, hereditary elitists, tax swindlers etc. will all reward their henchman like Tomkins very well for the hard work he’s done fcuking any chance Scotland has of running its own economy in his Smith Commission’s historic farce.

    And that’s why Tomkins is lying about EVEL now on twitter. EVEL’s their UKOK coup de grace.

    Next up, 5 years to get at least 20 SLabour shills back into Westminster. You read it here first.

  137. Paula Rose says:

    So for now it’s Ukish – pronounced yuckish?

  138. Macart says:

    I don’t much care about the breakdown of who came from where, what age, whether they walked with limp or bought cute kittens monthly. This is their future too and we’re working as much for them and their future generations as those who already are committed to voting yes.

    They need to be convinced regardless of all of the above. They need to acknowledge what has happened since September last and that the system they supported has betrayed their loyalty and hopes for the future. That Cameron has indeed reneged on his referendum pledges, that statements made by Labour and the Liberals have since proven to be false and that the only way to rectify the situation is to vote for a future they will have an active say in.

    There is no grey area here, Westminster’s establishment parties misled the Scottish electorate and that is ALL the peoples that make up the Scottish electorate.

    We need friends. We need their help to put the record straight. More importantly, I believe we should hold out a hand and ask for their help as fellow citizens to work with us toward this end.

  139. Robert Peffers says:

    @gus1940 says: 3 July, 2015 at 5:32 pm:

    “Is it not amazing that even after 308 years of the wonderful Union there is still no generally accepted word (noun that is – I don’t count ‘British’ which is an adjective)for a citizen of The UK. What is missing is something to follow ‘I am a ‘?’).”

    That is because there is no such animal as a British Citizen.

    First of all, “Britain”, is the geographic term for the entire British archipelago and it contains, besides the United Kingdom, four non-UK states. These are The Bailiwicks of Jersey & Guernsey, The Isle of Man and The Republic of Ireland.

    Obviously a Republic cannot be part of a Kingdom but the other three are Crown, not United Kingdom, protectorates. They are part of the Royal Realm but not part of the United Kingdom part of that Royal Realm.

    The second factor is that under English Law only the English, Welsh & Northern Irish are subjects of the Queen while the Scots are legally Sovereign and the makes the Royal personage their Subject.

  140. galamcennalath says:

    One very distinctive group who stood out as NO voters are those who described themselves as Protestant. This 38% in the Ashcroft Poll voted 2:1 for No. I suspect it has very little to do with religion, but older Scots will describe themselves thus. Also, we shouldn’t forget the OO effect. With religion comes conservatism, big and small ‘c’.

    In contrast, the other two large religious groups, None and Catholics, voted 3:2 Yes.

    Other religious figures are too small samples to be meaningful.

    These sorts of figures are important, because they tell us typical profiles to be targeted for polite persuasion through education!

  141. Petra says:

    @ Stoker says at 6:05 pm ”To all at the DR”

    Good one Stoker. I’d seriously think of emailing that to them.

  142. Stoker says:

    Scots Renewables wrote:
    “Only today on another forum I saw some (English) tosspot arguing that tourism in Scotland was down because the English were ‘scared’ to come to Scotland. This is thanks to anti-English garbage in the English media.”

    Hi SR,
    And did you challenge this cretins views or just let it pass?

    Personally i never pass up an opportunity to shoot down this anti-English shite when i hear or see it being spouted.

    Mind you, i don’t frequent other forums so i’ve not experienced it in that situation but i have taken care of business in the strongest of terms whenever i encounter it face to face.

    Their expressions are priceless once they’ve been suitably ridiculed and informed of all my English connections and sent away with more than a flea in their ears.

    It’s the perfect tonic when you’re feeling a tad peed off.
    Take it out on the moronically ignorant, works a treat.
    😉

  143. schrodingers cat says:

    Mealer says:
    Gus 1940 5.32
    The word you’re looking for is “neep”.

    they puir North East Ethnical Persons ah ken will be devastated tae hear this

  144. Stoker says:

    @ Petra (7.05pm).
    Wouldn’t waste my time with them Petra but you are more than welcome to take it on as your own and forward it, if you think it’ll get anywhere. Go Petra!
    🙂

  145. Boorach says:

    @ Macart

    Will you please get yourself a blog. Your efforts whil standing in for WGD were excellent and brought a logical balance to the debate.

  146. Stoker says:

    Besides, Petra, they already read and monitor this site.
    😉

  147. Hoss Mackintosh says:

    @RobertPeffers,

    I have to disagree with you which is unusual for me.

    For us – we do not need the North British title any more – Scotland will do just fine.

    However, I think the correct geographical and political term for the people of rUK should be the “South British”.

    Thus the “United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland” would become:

    “The Kingdom of South Britain and Northern Ireland”.

    A simple change just drop the “United” and change “Great” to “South”.

    Sorted.

    They can even use “SB” on their cars as the Serbs have stopped using it – so brilliant, no confusion there.

    Also, was there not some guy who said it was the Scots (James VI) who put the “Great” into Britain?

    Therefore, it is fitting that when we go, the “Great” goes too.

  148. Tinto Chiel says:

    @ Briandoonthetoon 6.09 pm.

    Sorry, Brian, I was out in my sub-tropical Lanarkshire sitootery having my tea and am just catching up.

    Wow! That enamel badge is a stoater. I bet you wear it with pride. When I think of (insert T word), I think of the workers’ struggle, as in Grunwick.

    Must I be disciplined by PR for my indiscretion?

  149. Steve White says:

    sorry – what is the Daily Record ?

  150. Paula Rose says:

    I want to live in a democracy – Scotland seems to be the right sort of place for that.

    Are we still tied to a feudalist country due to mistakes made 300 years ago?

    Why am I as a childless person concerned? I have the rest of the world to consider.

  151. Nana Smith says:

    O/T
    Alexis Tsipras speak to the people few hours before Greferendum

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aidRyCAbAao

  152. Clootie says:

    The Daily Record delivered for the Union. They are a unionist newspaper who support a unionist party.

    This is all show to try and deflect any bad publicity from them.

    The Daily Record put the VOW on the front page and by doing so misled many, many people in Scotland into voting NO.

    THEY published a lie.THEY enabled the betrayal.

  153. Chic McGregor says:

    Oops posted this on previous thread by mistake.

    Bit busy just now just snatching a few minutes at a time on the internet.

    @Paula
    I just did simple mental arithmetic using a couple of ballpark figures which were in my head, namely 3.6 million voted, 9% of population are English (last census) 70% voted no 30% voted yes (Ashcroft).

    Assuming the same proportion of English born Scots voted, which is a big assumption because I know if I moved to Shetland and they subsequently (not consequently I hope 🙂 ) had an independence from Scotland ref, I wouldn’t vote. That might just be me, but I suspect that there could be some tendency for that from other folk.

    So I would expect a lower turnout for English born Scots.

    However, even if they did turn out in the same proportion, with mental arith. approximations then around 320,000 English born voted which according to Ashcroft’s sample polls, were, again relying on memory 70:30 that would mean about 220000 No, 100000 Yes

    i.e. a net No of about 120,000

    120,000 is a wee bit over 3% of the vote

    So could only make the difference if it was approx 48.5%:51.5%

  154. Paula Rose says:

    Indiscretion not obligatory.

  155. Rock says:

    The Record and Pravda GB stepped in the last moment when the game was over.

    They didn’t change the vote.

    They just succeeded in providing an explanation to cover up the rigging.

  156. Ken500 says:

    The Ashcroft Poll reflects the 1000? Sample which he polled not the make up of voters in Scotland. Ie it is just sample of those he polled. It doesn’t reflect the make up of the total voters in Scotland. It might not be representational of the total voters, making the direct analysis flawed. It can’t be deduced this is the way all sections (religions, ages or whatever) voted. It is representational the way a relative small sample, voted or answered. It could be totally inaccurate. That is why the blame game is completely wrong. The way the total numbers voted is secret, it is not known.

  157. kendomacaroonbar says:

    iScot Cartoonist MoRap with ” Look what they’ve done with our Vow, Maw”

    http://iscot.scot/sing-a-long/

  158. crazycat says:

    @ Ken500

    That is why the blame game is completely wrong. The way the total numbers voted is secret, it is not known.

    Yes; exactly. Well put – thank you.

  159. thomaspotter2014 says:

    good point Rock@ 8,34

  160. caledonia says:

    I am going to be honest here and say i have bought the Daily Record for 30 years and have loved the sport and most other things.

    Better than most of the other papers in Scotland (including the national before anyone says as i see it as mainly a political paper not a full on sport or news paper)

    It so annoys me that they have betrayed me and my family and it hurts to change something you have used for all that time

    But like the people of Liverpool who boycott the sun because of hillsbourgh my family have vowed (no pun intended)to never buy another daily record ever again

  161. Petra says:

    @ Stoker says at 7:27 pm ”Wouldn’t waste my time with them Petra but you are more than welcome to take it on as your own and forward it, if you think it’ll get anywhere. Go Petra! :)”

    I might take you up on that if you promise not to get me done for plagiarizing!

  162. Macart says:

    @Boorach

    Thanks Boorach, but the last thing we need is another blog. We’ve got any number of great sites and bloggers and more than a few the establishment would dearly love to see shut down. I reckon we need to support the likes of real talent like the Rev, Paul, Mike, Derek et al.

    I think more of our stories need to be heard though. Contributions from every walk of life for folk like those mentioned to post on their sites. There is such a rich tapestry of talent I see every day on these sites. The humorous, the knowledgeable, the passionate, the clinical and those schooled by life and hard knocks.

    So much guff has been written about us by the self interested and politically driven. Mibbies we need to tell folk who we are?

  163. Kevin Evans says:

    So am sitting in my bed watching out my window down the street lined with union jacks and red hand of Ulster flags and I think “this is not the home I want for me”

  164. paulTgeist says:

    @ Rock 8.34pm – You say The Record didn’t change the vote.

    That is a matter of opinion and cannot be stated as fact. With that in mind it is my opinion that their stance, not just the vow, throughout the full referendum campaign played no small part in influencing the ‘No’ vote.

    You also stated that The Record succeeded in only providing an explanation to cover up the rigging. I partially agree with this but that was their intention and as i said previously, they also influenced a ‘No’ vote by being a fully signed up member of Project Fear, culminating in a massive act of bogus bribery.

    The DR and everyone associated with it are as guilty as hell.

  165. Michael McCabe says:

    @ Socrates MacSporran 12:10pm Sadly some folk will get fooled again. So I prefer this as an Anthem. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXW-sL5gzHQ&feature=player_detailpage

  166. Lochside says:

    People who vote to keep Scotland a colony: Onanists.

    The DR like all Scotland’s media (except the National) is being subsidised by the British State to lie daily to the Scottish population.

    Its latest contortions are nothing but the manueverings of a snake…and the outcome is manure pure and simple.

    Until the majority of our population understand that Project Fear never ended and that we are in a political struggle to the death with this EVEL state, we cannot win.

    How to circumvent the cacophony of State-led Britnat propaganda and get to the unengaged and uninformed 10-15% of Scots remains the problem for the SNP.

    Make no mistake, the jelly-spined fearties in our population will be viewing the threats being made by the EU Troiyka to the Greeks regarding their currency, pensions, future security as a reminder of the downright lies spun at us during the REF.

    Those lies have still not been challenged loudly enough and put to the sword in the public domain by the SNP. People on here forget that their knowledge is not available to said fearties because of the wall of distorted noise being vomited at our general populace by the Brit ratpack lies.

    Yes they should know now…but ask yourself, what chance with the BBC,Sun and Record….never mind the feral ‘quality’ English toilet paper that masquerade as newspapers?.

    I sincerely hope that the SNP have expected and prepared for the shutting down exercise going on in Westmonster to crush our identity. But the rage it should be engendering that will lead to a genuine majority in Scotland demanding another plebiscite is hard to ignite while the media produce dead air on this parody of democracy.

  167. galamcennalath says:

    @Ken500

    http://www.pollingreport.com/ncpp.htm

    “Using a sample of 1,000 as an example, the statement could read: the chances are 95% of coming within +/- 3% of a hypothetical survey conducted among all members of the population. This means that 95% of all samples that could possibly be drawn will yield an outcome within 3 percentage points of the true percentage among the population.”

    Ashcroft used just over 2000. I assume this was because they wanted to use subsamples for gender, location, party etc etc.. If the subsamples are say 200, 300, 400 etc then that 3% using 1000 will increase.

    So yes, deductions will be inaccurate to the order of 5,10,15% etc when you look at smaller and smaller breakdowns.

    Another limitation of all polls is people lie and are shy. Basically, as I understand it, they won’t admit to backing the more unpalatable options! I suspect that effect gave the Tories a boost in the GE relative to polling.

    Should we ignore polling? No, I don’t believe so, but we must always have a feel for how accurate they are likely to be. Tabloids notoriously present polling deductions without the necessary caveats.

  168. Petra says:

    @ Scunterbunnet says at 4:44 pm ”Is there a reliable demographic breakdown of the IndyRef vote available anywhere? I’ve seen various factoids about who voted which way, in the papers and elsewhere, it would be good to see an overall breakdown. Cheers”

    Hope this will help Scunterbunnet. Professor Ailsa Henderson has carried out a great deal of research relating to the Referendum (3 waves) and her findings are very interesting indeed for example, the promises of the vow didn’t have a great deal of influence, 60% of NO voters thought more powers were coming and if we had had the Referendum a week later the results may have been closer. She also highlights issues of greatest importance such as EU and currency etc etc.

    Go to the Edinburgh University site and search for her name. You’ll find that she has carried out a number of very illuminating research studies.

    Prof Ailsa Henderson presents the Scottish Referendum Study Results.

    The ‘Vow’ had little effect on the result of the Referendum.

    Prof Ailsa Henderson finds 52% of young people voted No in Independence Referendum.

    Ailsa Henderson contributes to report on the rise of Englishness.

    Prof Ailsa Henderson highlights similarities between English and Scottish nationalism.

    I’ve also included a couple of newspaper articles that may be helpful.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2753400/Revealed-How-half-million-English-voters-living-Scotland-set-block-independence.html

    Daily Record … Independence referendum figures revealed (with charts): Majority of Scots born here voted YES while voters from elsewhere in UK said NO.

    I’m presuming that you may be considering where best to place the billboards. If so the National Records of Scotland site is excellent. It details migration to Scotland from rUK (and from overseas) and migration within Scotland (also emigration statistics). It also outlines statistics relating to increase / reduction per Council areas.

    NATIONAL RECORDS OF SCOTLAND

    2014 population at its highest level ever. The estimated population of Scotland on 30 June 2014 was 5,347,600.

    Between mid-2012 and mid-2013, approximately 47,700 people came to Scotland from England, Wales and Northern Ireland and approximately 39,800 left Scotland to go in the opposite direction giving a net migration gain of 7,900.

    Between mid-2013 and mid-2014 49,240 people came to Scotland from the rest of the UK and 39,660 left Scotland to go in the opposite direction.

    Between mid-2013 and mid-2014, 33,200 people came to Scotland from overseas and 25,200 left Scotland to go overseas.

    The rise in Scotland’s population in the last ten years should be seen in the context of the relative stability of the population over the last 50 years. The population last reached a peak of 5.24 million in 1974 before falling to 5.06 million in mid-2000 and then rising to a new high over the last 14 years. Scotland has now entered a period of net in-migration.

    The age structure of Scotland’s population is changing. Different patterns have been observed in different age groups. Of particular note is the decrease of three per cent in the number of children under 16 and the increase of 17 per cent in the number of people aged 75 and over. The ageing of the population is also evident in the rise of 13 per cent in the 45-59 age group, and of 17 per cent in the 60-74 age group.

    The peak age for migration into Scotland from the rest of the UK is 19, at which age there is a marked migration gain. The peak ages for migration out of Scotland to the rest of the UK are 23 and 24 and this results in a net migration loss at these ages. These large in and out flows result from an influx of students from outside Scotland starting higher education, followed by a move out of Scotland after graduation.

    In the year to mid-2014, the highest net-migration gains from areas outside Scotland, as a proportion of the resident population, were in Aberdeen City, the City of Edinburgh and Glasgow City.

    If you want more specific information you could email or phone the following: Statistics Customer Services. E-mail: customer [at] gro-scotland [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk

    Kirsty MacLachlan, Senior Statistician, National Records of Scotland.

    Room 1/2/3, Ladywell House, Ladywell Road, Edinburgh. EH12 7TF.

    Telephone: (0131) 314 4242 E-mail: kirsty [dot] maclachlan [at] gro-scotland [dot] gsi [dot] gov [dot] uk.

  169. majestic12 says:

    Very fair coverage in the i today by James Cusick of the mess that is EVEL which he says will probably end the union. He opines that Chris Grayling is an advertising asset for the SNP.

    It strikes me that Cameron is the first prime minister in 300 years to let slip the secret, that has always been well concealed, that Scottish votes have never counted, Scottish people have never counted and Scotland has never counted, except in what can be exploited and stolen from it, in this never equal United Kingdom.

    Not for the first time I am wondering if this is a deliberate ploy by the Tories, in the interests of short term gain, to get shot of Scotland. In the long term it would be a disaster for England.

    I just hope Scots are sitting up and taking notice, at last, whatever the Tories motives may be. And Labour sat back and let all this happen. For this I despise them more than the Tories.

  170. Capella says:

    @ Petra
    You’ve certainly done your homework on this one!
    I recall when the research came out showing that the “Vow” didn’t influence voters many commenters on this blog thought that, as it was several months after the referendum, people were too embarrassed to admit they were duped by the VOW.

    The advantage of the Ashcroft poll is that it was conducted immediately after the vote.

    Also, I too feel that the ethnic question is pure poison to the independence campaign.

  171. Rock says:

    paulTgeist,

    “The DR and everyone associated with it are as guilty as hell.”

    They sure are.

    But I am not convinced that they turned an expected Yes victory into a No victory.

    Those who were going to vote No anyway found it an useful excuse.

    No one with more than one brain cell would read The Record, let alone believe it.

    With the polls suggesting Yes pulling ahead, they had to find a quick explanation as to why No won.

    They already knew that No was going to win because they had rigged the result.

    Remember that there was no Exit poll and how smug and confident the unionists looked and sounded at 10 pm?

    If they had not rigged the result, they would have appeared very nervous.

    I am only expressing my opinion when I post here.

  172. crazycat says:

    @ Capella

    Although a poll conducted shortly after a vote is less subject to faulty recall than a later one, it has been shown (I’m not sure exactly how, but the conclusion has been mentioned a number of times by Anthony Wells on his UK Polling Report site) that even people who are trying hard to be truthful are remarkably bad at identifying their own reasons for doing something.

    So not only might some people be trying to hide having been duped by the Vow; others may have been influenced more (or indeed less) than they realize.

  173. hopper69 says:

    Chris Kilby@11.33

    “Anger is an energy”

    Lydon

  174. Rock says:

    O/T

    My prediction about the Lockerbie appeal, made on 12th February, has come true:

    Lollysmum,

    “O/T
    Morag is being interviewed about Lockerbie by Independence Live at 7pm”

    “I predict with 99.99% confidence that the ruling will be something like:

    ‘Therefore, the court rules that a new appeal is not justified.’

    And I will be very happy to be proven wrong.”

    Did I mention (recently) that the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low?

  175. Rock says:

    O/T

    I repeat my prediction on the outcome of the Carmichael case:

    “Given that the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low, Carmichael will almost certainly win the case.

    That will be 60,000 pounds of independence supporters’ cash down the lawyers’ drain, while people in Scotland are starving.

    But even if my prediction comes true, we will have no choice but to continue playing the game according to the unionists’ rules.”

  176. Paula Rose says:

    Well done Rock dear – we are so pleased for you.

  177. Ken500 says:

    2000 sample tells nothing of how the total nos/demographics voted. It is only a verdict how the representational sample voted. That could explain how the Polls are analysed, wrongly. There is absolutely no evidence that gives any % of an accuracy of the division of the vote, when the vote is secret. No one has that information. Pollsters or anyone. It is secret. The only accurate verdict is how many of the total vote have been register as voting Yes or No. How trustworthy are the Pollsters? That is a consideration. The stakes are high.

  178. @Rock

    Carmichael will almost certainly win the case

    Which will awaken more people to the fact that the UK is a corrupt political system IMO.

  179. DerekM says:

    i have to agree the vow did not make a big difference but then it did not need to make a big difference all it had to do was take the people who would vote for devo max away from voting for independence and it worked if the polls before the vow are to be believed.

    The most important thing is we can not make the same mistake we did in 79 and leave decades between another vote and let the momentum we have gathered dissipate,which was what happened in 79 and is what the onions are hoping we do again.

    Lets make sure we disappoint them.

  180. Ken500 says:

    It was the Scottish Justice system manipulated by Labour/Unionists – Blair – which instigated the Lockerbie Trial. Westminster will not give up the evidence. That is why there can be no appeal. There will be a D Notice under the Offical Secret Act, which Scottish Gov will not even be able to make public. E,g the Chilcot Report has been held up for years. Westminster illegally keeping it’s secrets.

  181. Paula Rose says:

    A lot of interference on the thread – wee cotton socks as per usual.

  182. HandandShrimp says:

    The Record sold its soul for the Unionist cause and now finds that Faustian pacts are hard to break.

  183. heedtracker says:

    “Given that the Scottish justice system is rotten to the core and the vast majority of lawyers, especially judges, are the lowest of the low, Carmichael will almost certainly win the case.

    I think a lot of them are just crap at their jobs.

    http://lallandspeatworrier.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/on-perjury.html

    The Force is strong in this commentator and for not the first time, you have to ask one simple query of our noble and honest legal eagles.

    Why the fcuk did the prosecution here only learn about their own laws during their own case? Poor wee honest as the teamGB day is long Andy Coulson, years of stress and worry and all because Scots lawyers have their heads up their arses.

    Loadsamoney though.

  184. Paula Rose says:

    Rock honey shall we kiss and make up now?

  185. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Caledonia

    “But like the people of Liverpool who boycott the sun because of hillsbourgh my family have vowed (no pun intended)to never buy another daily record ever again.”

    I hear what you are saying, Caledonia. More power to your elbow. The Redcoat should be listening to people like you and realising Where TF they went wrong.

    Unfortunately, they won’t

  186. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Macca73 10.48 I think a mock Daily Record should be made up with that very headline on it Rev. and put on an advertising truck and parked outside their offices for all to see!

    Or perhaps a projection on the side of their building so they can’t just “Remove it”

    Must suggest that to Scunterbunnet – my favourite site would be opposite Pacific Quay

  187. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ Rock

    “But even if my prediction comes true, we will have no choice but to continue playing the game according to the unionists’ rules.”

    Rock–don’t get me wrong but I find some of your posts just a tad depressing, with no uplift.

    Fortunately, I have enough uplift for the two of us. So listen–we are gonnae effing get our indpendence SOON(ish).

    Got it?

    Good.

  188. Grouse Beater says:

    Proud CN: We are gonnae get our independence SOON.

    Your wish is my command:

    https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2015/05/13/independence-is-here/

  189. Cadogan Enright says:

    Phoned the BBC tonight to complain about last nights ‘Today in Parliament’ were 20 minutes out of 30 were spent on EVEL and the exclusion of Scottish MP’s from votes in Parliament on the grounds they are not English MP’s.

    Pointed out that they had given exactly zero minutes to the packing of English MP’s on the Scottish Affairs Committee to exclude Scottish MP’s from having a majority on their own committee.

    The complaints team are often emphatic and can sound sympathetic however they really feel themselves and are polite.

    But tonight I felt that sheer scale and embarrassment of the BBC to its front-line employees was taking a toll and the poor woman was numb.

  190. Capella says:

    During the campaign, Better Together followed the tactics used by the Canadian unionists against the Quebecois independence movement. Project Fear etc.

    One tactic was the “last minute offer you can’t refuse”. Seasoned politicians (i.e. Alex Salmond) thought they might resort to that, and they did. THE VOW was announced days after the YES vote crossed over the line to 51%. Since then Salmond and Co have advocated “holding their feet to the fire” over THE VOW. Denying that it influenced voters undermines this strategy.

    Ashcroft’s post referendum poll shows that 25% of NO voters believed that more powers would be delivered after a NO vote.
    25% of NO voters = 500,000 votes. Well worth converting those voters to be YES.

  191. Cadogan Enright says:

    @Robert Peffers 7.02

    As I have said to you on several occasions in recent years – Ireland is NOT geographically in Britain or the so-called recently invented British Isles

    Thanks but no thanks

  192. ClanDonald says:

    Pay attention, Daily Record: Labour leadership candidate, Liz Kendall, says Labour should embrace EVEL.

    http://www.archive.is/VQOKL

    She says “It is time for the Labour Party to stop swimming against the tide and back the idea that English voters should have the right to determine things that solely affect England.”

    Wonder if the Record will change it’s tune on EVEL now that it has the approval of their Labour party masters. “Oops, sorry readers, got it wrong, EVEL is cool after all, Get it right up yous, Scotland”

  193. MJS Dundee says:

    O/T Was just reading the wee look at/discussion of Christopher Chope now on the Scot Affair Committee in a previous article.

    He claims to have graduated in Law from Queen’s College, St. Andrews in 1970.

    That’s curious because QC, St.A did not exist by 1970 – it became the University of Dundee in 1967.

    Poor thing, we couldn’t have a true blue tory graduate from a common provincial University which was only 3 yrs old at the time … .

    The neighbours would talk. The shame of being associated with Dundee …, bloody Yessers.

  194. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Rock at 9.52

    I agree with you on this one

  195. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    It is worth noting that the only poll done subsequent to the referendum which asked voters what they would have done had there been three questions showed the independence option narrowly beating the devo option with the status quo a poor third.

    Only one poll however but an interesting result

  196. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I don’t believe the VOW changed many minds but it served as a useful excuse for a surprising result they knew before the count

  197. majestic12 says:

    Rock@9.52pm

    Absolutely spot on. The relaxed, confident manner of the presenters and talking heads at 10pm was so obvious that it was almost palpable.
    If you’d touched the tv screen you would have felt “the lurv”. And no exit poll? Another indicative anomaly. When the Western Isles turned in the fourth no vote of the night I went to bed in disgust and fury.

    These too are just my own opinions and gut feelings. The massive electrical storm overhead is disrupting everything, so I hope this gets through.

  198. Petra says:

    Good for Cadogan. We have to keep this up. I complain to newspapers, STV and the BBC practically EVERY day by emailing or phoning. As an example if I read something on here but don’t hear it on the news I’m demanding to know ‘Why not?’ ….. why am I finding out about this online but not on the news? I sit with a pen and paper and take notes when watching the news or political programmes and then complain about unfairness or bias by quoting what they’ve said and so on.

    I’ve been doing this for nearly a year now and must say I get worn out with it all but won’t give up until we get our Independence. I’ve got a number of email addresses so use them in an attempt to maintain my privacy. I don’t know if this works or not as my computer has been hit with one obscure virus after another, hacked into (just prior to the Referendum) and over the last couple of months or so an ‘ultra protector’ installed by an expert has been playing up on a daily basis.

    I’ve been doing this with a number of people and we reckon there has been some small shift in relation to the Daily Record and STV. This could be wishful thinking of course but whatever the case doing nothing more than sitting mumping and moaning about them ain’t going to work.

  199. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Quick O/T…

    Newsshaft’s crowdfunder has 3 days left. It’s sitting at £6,972 towards a £10,000 target.

    Gie thum a wee help towards their total…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6Rr1vFUJgA

    http://newsshaft.com/

  200. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Cadogan Enright.

    When I was doing Geography at school in the 60s, we were taught that this group of islands was called ‘The British Isles’; Great Britain was the largest, Ireland was the second biggest.

  201. osakisushi says:

    Dave McEwan Hill

    Take a drive from the Cothouse to Ardentinny and count the For Sale signs. They are horrific. I am pretty confident very few of these people voted YES in indieref#1. And worse, (if my own neighbours were anything to go by) they were warning tradesmen that they’d want a new Driveway / Conservatory etc if not for this dreadful uncertainty.

    I know for a fact this caused a particular lady to vote NO as her husbands business was being affected by the fear Scotland becoming its own boss. Apparently, (I cannot believe I am writing this) Forestry would close down as his primary client in England would not deal with an independent Scotland.
    I hate to say that I avoid my favourite dog walk nowadays in case I meet the stupid bitch. Her husband voted yes and still has a bloody sticker on his car. But Fear made his wife vote against Scotland.

    I’d love to prove ‘they’ pockled the result but I think, when it comes down to nuts and now bolters, Project Fear won the day.

  202. osakisushi says:

    Capella

    You make a valid point and sorry for my contributions above. I’ve fallen into the divide and conquer trap as we all try and overthink this.

  203. Dal Riata says:

    The Press Awards for 2014. (11.03.2015)

    “Satchwell praises “brilliance” of industry at journalism “Oscars””

    “The brilliance and diversity of UK national newspapers displayed in The Press Awards refutes their many critics, according to the Society of Editors.

    Bob Satchwell, Executive Director of the Society that organises the awards and chairman of the judges, said: “In a year in which the Press have been plagued by ill-informed attacks and questions about the integrity of the industry from so many different sources, the variety, quality and relevance of the journalism in national newspapers provided the answers and the evidence of the brilliance of the media.”

    Speaking at the National Press Awards for 2014 at the Marriott Grosvenor Square hotel last night he praised the Press for coming together in opposition of the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act and praised the Campaign for Freedom of Information.

    He added: “From RIPA to secret courts and charges against journalists that have resulted in very few convictions, 2014 was a year in which the full force of the law has been trained upon the Press yet again. But we must salute your fightback against all those who would dearly like to shackle you further.

    “We should also applaud the tenth anniversary of the implementation of the Freedom of Information Act and those who fought so hard to achieve it.”

    And…

    “Winners announced for the Press Awards 2014”

    “The premier awards for UK national newspaper journalism were handed out a glittering ceremony to celebrate The Press Awards for 2014, organised by the Society of Editors, last night.”

    “Chairman of the Judges, Executive Director of the Society of Editors, Bob Satchwell, said: “The awards demonstrate the importance and quality of the British Press.

    “They are the answer to the critics who seek to silence our newspapers. This is the best of UK newspaper journalism, which is the best in the world.””

    “Front page of the year – Highly commended: ‘The Vow’ – Daily Record.”

    “For huge perseverance to get three party leaders to sign up to the pledges in the big political story of the year – the first highly commended entry goes to ‘The Vow’ by the Daily Record.”

    And again… “The awards demonstrate the importance and quality of the British press.” … “This is the best of UK journalism, which is the best in the world.”

    Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha! Laugh Out bloody Loud!

  204. call me dave says:

    More sabre rattling getting ready for next weeks trouncing of Scottish matters at WM.

    https://archive.is/i7arL

  205. Dal Riata says:

    One more time with the following (all bolds mine):

    For huge perseverance to get three party leaders to sign up to the pledges in the big political story of the year – the first highly commended entry goes to ‘The Vow’ by the Daily Record.”

    Really? “huge perseverance”, eh. Like what? Could someone – anyone – care to enlighten us, especially us Scots, what the “huge perseverance” consisted of? Frantic late night calls, maybe, or direct representation by Daily Record executives, or private jets to and fro from Scotland to London Airport for face-to-face meetings, perhaps?

    “… to get three party leaders to sign up to the pledges”

    Really? So Cameron, Miliband and Clegg actually DID sign their names to the Vow…? Like, really, really?

    So then, why has no-one taken the credence for formulating the Vow? Surely, for an undertaking that receives accolades and awards, the creator, the writer or team of writers would be only to eager to let it be known that he or she was, or they were, responsible. Then, why has no-one stepped forward? Indeed, the response, so far, has been that responsibility for its creation is something to be denied by all and sundry. How very… odd!

  206. Petra says:

    Dal Riata if any one of them, Cameron, Clegg or Miliband, had actually signed up to anything at all and then reneged on it they could have been sued (to say the least). They DIDN’T sign up to anything at all.

    On the otherhand the Daily Record made this out to be the case. To my mind they could be sued as they breached United Nations conventions by interfering and manipulating the outcome of a democratic electoral process. It may not apply to newspapers however. I don’t know. Maybe Stu could check this out. Starting place the Celtic League. If not IPSO might take this on.

    Their strategy (one of many) involved Daphne Broon threatening pensioners (fear) followed up with ranting and raving about ‘the flag is ours’ (positive, patriotic emotions) and then saying that Scotland would get Home Rule (full blown security). He had no political authority to state this at all but the Daily Record and the BBC backed up his false claims. Maybe the BBC should be taken to Court in relation to breaching UN rules and regulations too? My home grown Legal Eagle says one or both could be sued for this.

    Then we have it …. the BRAINWASHED CONNECTION … BROON promises … the DAILY RECORD publishes his promises / the BBC airs them to add credibility ….. and then along comes CAMERON and MILIBAND (no Clegg who will out them all later on when it suits him) on a visit to Glasgow making promises but not in relation to any VOW per se. No public signing of any document either. Big con. End of.

  207. ronnie anderson says:

    Weathers no looking to promising for Emburgh (Holyrood), will it dampen our spirits,nae chancety,we survived Yes in Strathclyde Park withoot drooning we,ll survive this squall.

    IScot mags (back issues)Donations asked for.
    IScot July issue on sale.

    Dont forget Badges, Badges, Badges,Limited edition once there gone there gone,get in there early to get Proud Cybernat

    Everythings covered boys n girls Wings gizeebo,s going up,
    hope to meet plenty of you,s Wingers there.

  208. Rory Borealis says:

    “Westminster Lies” – that’s not news.

    “Westminster tells the TRUTH.” – That’s News!

  209. john king says:

    Rober Peffers@2.22pm
    “One thing I’m sure of is that there are indeed a percentage of those Scots who will, without doubt, go on being fooled and will thus go on making the same mistakes over and over again. Always expecting a different outcome.”

    I couldn’t agree more Bob, we had history telling us never to believe them when Alex Douglas Hume promised Scotland “something better” if we vote no for a devolved parliament and what did we get (in spite if a majority for yes)? we got Margaret Thatcher, the Tories then as now had no intention of giving Scotland anything, but look at the parralels in 1979 they wheel out an “elder statesman (as an elder statesman he is of course to be trusted)in ADH and in 2014 who do they get to save the world… eh nation? Gordon Brown, the next time we see them rush out another elder statesmen run for your lives RUN.
    _____________________________________________________________
    Andy B @4.04PM
    “The snivelling Daily Record is trying to get voters back onside, do the likes of Murray Foote, and Torcuil Crichton think that folk are stupid enough to actually believe them?”

    Eh see above!
    ______________________________________________________________
    Petra says @7.05pm
    “@ Stoker says at 6:05 pm ”To all at the DR”

    Good one Stoker. I’d seriously think of emailing that to them.”

    Seconded!
    ____________________________________________________________
    Boorach says @7.30
    “@ Macart

    Will you please get yourself a blog. Your efforts whil standing in for WGD were excellent and brought a logical balance to the debate.”

    I have already thought up a name for it if you do Sam
    you should call it Moral Compass. 🙂
    _______________________________________________________________
    MJS Dundee @ 12.03am
    “The neighbours would talk. The shame of being associated with Dundee …, bloody Yessers.”

    BA DOOM TISH. 🙂

  210. Ken500 says:

    English Laws for English votes is certainly becoming extremely problematic for Westminster. By the time they are finished, they will wish they have never started it.

  211. Grouse Beater says:

    Brian Doonthetoon: When I was doing Geography at school in the 60s, we were taught that this group of islands was called ‘The British Isles’; Great Britain was the largest, Ireland was the second biggest.

    And the Pennines were the ‘backbone of Great Britain.’

    It came as a bit of a surprise later to discover the Pennines stopped well short of Scotland.

  212. Macart says:

    @John

    Heh, good name, but hopefully you saw my reply to Boorach. We’ve got plenty of superb talent up and running already. What need are contributors, life experience posts, aspirational posts from those contributors. Posts that tell the world who we are and what we hope for. Where we want to be and what we want to achieve.

    The establishment and their media have set the bar at an all time low with their depiction of Scottish politics and those who participate, most especially their commentary and views on the independence movement. We need to set the record straight in our own words, not just the words of our political and online advocates, but literally our own words IMV.

    There’s a lot of talent and a lot of stories out there. 🙂

  213. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    osakisushi @1.05

    I do not doubt that fear played a part in some folk’s calculations but “for sale” signs remaining up on many houses are a sign that the housing market has seriously stalled as the completely false housing boom has collapsed and only the daft now imagine that buying a house is now a recipe for increasing wealth.

    Argyll and Bute is the only area in Scotland showing a net loss in population which among other things is a damning indictment of the appalling mismanagement of the council

    We did a canvas of the area you talk of. We didn’t expect it to be great but it was no worse than 50/50. At the moment about one in eighteen of the voting population in Cowal is a member of the SNP.

    There are many indications that some people knew the result before the count including a bookie firm owned by a Tory grandee paying out on a NO vote the day before the count

  214. Dorothy Devine says:

    Ronnie , hope it goes better that the Orange walk I saw – is it supposed to be today?- anyway they were met by a deluge as they held up the traffic ,knee deep puddles , poor souls!

  215. Fred says:

    @ Scott Borthwick, many thanks for the St Abbs Lifeboat link pal.

    Tadays Orange demonstration in Glasgow looks as if it will be well diluted! 🙂

  216. Jack Murphy says:

    Re :–ronnie anderson says:
    4 July, 2015 at 4:36 am
    “Weathers no looking to promising for Emburgh (Holyrood), will it dampen our spirits,nae chancety,we survived Yes in Strathclyde Park withoot drooning we,ll survive this squall.”

    It’s fair at the moment,and Livestream is saying it may start the stream EARLIER than 2PM Saturday to stream folk gathering beforehand. 🙂

    http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/hoh

  217. David McDowell says:

    Robert Peffers at 12:17pm

    I am listening Robert.
    And what I’m hearing is that Scotland has no so-called “democratic” routes left to independence – having tried them all and discovered they are all shams to keep the peasants placated.
    We are told that other options – like declaring ourselves independent – are not democratic. This is bull.
    I will be telling Nicola – my MP – that when she next knocks on my door to ask for my vote – just like she did at the last Holyrood election.
    The rest of your post means nothing to me so I must assume it is some sort of fantasy you have woven based on what you mistakenly assume to true about me. A little respect for other people would be nice.

  218. Rock says:

    cynicalHighlander,

    “Which will awaken more people to the fact that the UK is a corrupt political system IMO.”

    (And others who have responded to my posts)

    We can never become independent as long as we play according to their rules.

    If Carmichael wins the case, which I think he almost certainly will, then all hell should break lose in my view.

    Otherwise we are indeed too wee, too poor and above all too stupid for independence.

  219. Rock says:

    Cadogan Enright,

    “As I have said to you on several occasions in recent years – Ireland is NOT geographically in Britain or the so-called recently invented British Isles

    Thanks but no thanks”

    As I have said before, Robert Peffers is a pedantic bore who thinks his version of history is the gospel truth.



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