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Wings Over Scotland


Slim pickings

Posted on November 07, 2014 by

When we commissioned our latest poll, the candidates for the Scottish Labour sort-of leadership hadn’t yet been finalised. In fact, we’re not even sure whether the post of deputy “leader” was up for grabs at that point, with Anas Sarwar having said that he had no intention of stepping down, shortly before stepping down.

murphyfive

But in any event we thought it’d be much more interesting to see who people actually thought should be the leader, rather than just who they regarded as the least-worst option out of whoever put their head above the parapet and took on the least attractive job prospect in Scottish politics.

So we picked the ten most prominent serving Scottish Labour MPs and MSPs we could think of (as well as anyone we expected to run), and asked respondents to pick who they think was best for the job regardless of whether they were actually standing or not. And the results made for fascinating reading.

BEST LEADER FOR SCOTTISH LABOUR (all voters)

Don’t know/don’t care: 45%
Jim Murphy: 18%
Gordon Brown: 18%
Alistair Darling: 4%
Someone not listed here: 3%
Sarah Boyack: 2%
Neil Findlay: 2%
Douglas Alexander: 2%
Kezia Dugdale: 2%
Anas Sarwar: 2%
Margaret Curran: <1%
Ian Davidson: <1%

Ouch. Two of the actual candidates for leader and one of the two candidates for deputy scored lower than “someone else”, and the joint favourite is someone who isn’t standing, with well under half the vote of “Don’t know/don’t care”.

Of course, that’s a little unfair as it includes voters of rival parties, so let’s only ask those who voted for Labour in the 2011 Holyrood election:

BEST LEADER FOR SCOTTISH LABOUR (Labour voters only)

Gordon Brown: 29%
Jim Murphy: 28%
Don’t know/don’t care: 28%
Alistair Darling: 4%
Someone not listed here: 2%
Kezia Dugdale: 2%
Neil Findlay: 2%
Douglas Alexander: 2%
Ian Davidson: 1%
Anas Sarwar: 1%
Margaret Curran: <1%
Sarah Boyack: <1%

Wow. It can’t be a healthy sign for a political pseudo-party when the two most favoured candidates for the leader’s job only just manage to outpoll “Don’t know/don’t care” among its own voters, and when that latter option gets at least FOURTEEN TIMES as many votes as anyone else who’s actually standing.

But what’s interesting about those two lists is that Jim Murphy tops the first one because he’s the preference of SNP and (particularly) Tory voters, rather than Labour ones. Murphy is backed by 29% of Tories, over 24% who choose Gordon Brown, and the SNP’s voters plump for Murphy by 14% to 12%.

There’s also a significant gender gap for Murphy. Only one other candidate has more than a 2% difference between the percentage of women and men who prefer them (though admittedly most of them struggle to get 2% at all), but 23% of all male voters choose Murphy over just 14% of women. Brown’s gender gap is just 2%.

Both are most popular with older voters – Murphy’s strongest demographic is men over 55, whereas Brown scores highest among women over 55. Young women in particular really seem to dislike the East Renfrewshire MP – he’s preferred by 26% of men over 55 but just 8% of female voters aged 18-34, whereas Brown’s support is much more evenly spread at a high of 23% (old women) and a low of 16% (old men).

(Curiously, the candidate with the second-biggest discrepancy between the sexes is Kezia Dugdale, and not in the way readers might expect – she also does very poorly with women, with almost 80% of her backers being male. Given her miniscule overall support, though, those numbers are based on a very small sample.)

Finally, it’s basically a dead heat regardless of whether Yes or No voters are polled. Brown edges Yes voters by 12% to 11%, whereas Murphy reverses the margin by taking 25% of No voters to Brown’s 24%.

These figures suggest that our scepticism about the easy Murphy victory most of the press is predicting may be misplaced. Murphy already has the parliamentary third of the Scottish Labour electoral college pretty well sewn up, and on this evidence he’s going to run away with the grassroots vote too, making Neil Findlay’s strong backing from trade unions irrelevant. And poor Sarah Boyack, bottom of the lot with just ONE vote out of 251, may as well save herself the bus fare to any hustings.

What we can say for sure, though, is that whoever’s leading Scottish Labour at Christmas will be the first choice of, at the very most, just over a quarter of the party’s rank-and-file membership, and in a race with only three runners that’s some way short of a resounding seal of approval to unite a party in turmoil with.

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  1. 07 11 14 07:42

    Slim pickings - Speymouth

  2. 08 11 14 14:28

    Slim pickings | Politics Scotland | Scoop.it

  3. 15 11 14 14:01

    Leopard’s spots resprayed | FreeScotland

203 to “Slim pickings”

  1. jimnarlene says:

    I’m with “don’t know” but, mostly with “don’t care”.

  2. donald anderson says:

    I’m with the don’t care which Labour numpty gets the poisoned chalice for the palace, as they will be no good for Scotland anyway.

  3. Willie Galbraith says:

    Kinda limp figures all round.
    Better question would have been how long do you think whoever gets the job will last.

  4. Inky Pic says:

    Slim pickings indeed! Maybe we need a bit of genetic programming. Is Dolly the Sheep still on the go?

  5. jackie g says:

    We should tell the MSM about the Don’t know/don’t care: 28% as they are now getting on my wick..

    example:

    Nicola Sturgeon has another roadshow tonight which should be at the forefront of the Scottish news.

    Guess what was on BBC this morning yes you’ve guessed it the Labour show they were showing scenes from one of their party conferences.

    Breakfast news is only on in the morning before i go to work but no more i have had enough..

    When will they ever accept that the SLAB are not the elected govt of Scotland the SNP are i wont hold my breath.

  6. No no no...Yes says:

    So, labour voters are still in love with crash Gordon. It says it all really, they are living in the past and to quote the Sex Pistols they have “..No future, no future.

    Going to see Nicola tonight in Dundee and as excited as a tennager on a first date!

  7. MochaChoca says:

    I’m not usually a distrusting person, but is there any independent/external oversight of a political party leadership election?

    It’s just that Murphy is hot favourite, is getting all the coverage and is talking is if he is already in charge.

    Seems as if the whole election thing is just for show.

  8. Doug Daniel says:

    I’m not surprised Alistair Darling only scored 4%. I wouldn’t want him to lead Labour for six minutes, frankly.

  9. Denis Mollison says:

    Depressingly low support for Sarah Boyack, whose reasonable views and track record at Holyrood would win my vote if I were in Labour – and she’s very good on environmental issues.

    But it’s Labour’s funeral, I suppose.

  10. Grouse Beater says:

    I vote for Slim Pickings.

    (Posted in homage to the American actor, Slim Pickens. Less well known, his brother, Easy Pickens.)

  11. JeanMackenzie says:

    Do you think Murphy is positioning himself as a Unionist candidate that Tory & LD voters might be persuaded to vote for?

    Is the BT team capable of organising an electoral pact/alliance?

  12. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    I am going for the “not listed” candidate. The bunny on Greg Moddie’s cartoons.

    She has been a steady hand on the tiller through these turbulent waters and should have nominated. If the cone fits…

  13. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    @JeanMackenzie
    I thought there was an alliance in place already …

    The Conservative (Tory) and Unionist (Labour) Party

  14. Christian Schmidt says:

    Boyack will pick up votes through the hustings, as anyone who has ever talked to her or listened to her can testify.

    The overwhelming problem for SLAB is that their hatred of the Nats gets in the way of a sensible analysis. Most of their senior politicians make silly points (about which we laugh) because they wish them to be true. And anyone who has hear Findlay in parliament knows he is one of them. As to Murphy, we have 100 days of evidence.

    Now, it is possible to spout nasty anti-Nats propaganda and keep your head clear – Brown showed it during the referendum. (He said some vile things and still managed to think through why the No campaign was losing and what needed to be done to reverse the momentum.) But I very much doubt that Findlay and Murphy are of the same calibre – there is nothing they have done to suggest so.

  15. ignoranceisatrength says:

    I am wondering if SNP voters support Murphy because they want to inflict maximum damage on Labour?

  16. desimond says:

    Labours new theme tune – “Every Loser Wins”

  17. tombee says:

    The picture of Murphy, the look of a simpleton?. No, it’s the face of deception.

  18. Luigi says:

    Murphy could have serious problems with female voters. Quite a few I have spoken to find him just too creepy.

  19. mjaei says:

    Anyone else think Labour might inspire more people if they went for one of those novelty candidates like Latvia’s Bear of Happiness [1] or Mexico’s Morris the Cat [2]?

    Maybe they could go for ‘Phil the PFI Poodle’ or ‘Wanda the Welfare?Cap Walrus’?

    Apparently a fire hydrant [3] has had a bit of a political career in Canada, even something like that might have a bit more charisma than any of the current Scottish Branch Office candidates… no?

    [1] http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/latest-news/novelty-bear-to-stand-for-election-in-latvia/story-fn3dxity-1225915750778
    [2] http://www.elcandigato.com/
    [3] https://sites.google.com/site/dpeets/hydrant/polyticks

  20. Gar M says:

    SLAB is an appropriate abbreviation for Scottish Labour as they will soon be cemented at the bottom.

  21. cath says:

    Do you think Murphy is positioning himself as a Unionist candidate that Tory & LD voters might be persuaded to vote for?

    I think that’s very much what’s going on, yes. It’s what McTernan was calling for – fight the SNP from the right and uninte the unionist,”silent majority” who are closet Tories. Might make a certain sense but I can see huge putfalls as well, especially with Labour in meltdown UK wide.

  22. ScottieDog says:

    If any of the other labour candidates are feeling alienated by the state broadcaster then it should give them a taste of what the YES campaign experienced.

    Stu, “Slim pickings” should have read “Slim Pickens” – as in Dr Strangelove – yeeeeehhhooooo

  23. ScottieDog says:

    @Cath,

    I do indeed think Murphy is there to appeal to the other party voters as a tactical vote against “separatism”. Almost like a NO alliance against the YES alliance.

  24. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Having read this latest polling news on SLab (where I find myself of the “don’t care” viewpoint) I find myself singing a particular song / subject matter over and over in my head…

    “When you’re sliding into first and you’re feeling something burst, diarrhoea, diarrhoea.

    When you’re sliding into third and you feel a juicy turd, diarrhoea, diarrhoea…”

  25. Ali says:

    With the press coverage so far Murphy is the only person most of the public have heard of or could recognize in the street. Mind you, with the Guardian twice misidentifying Margaret Curran as Johann Lamont it’s a surprise they get this right at all

  26. Capella says:

    Brimming with enthusiasm aren’t they. I think the low media profile of Sarah Boyack and Neil (who’s he?) Findlay explains their low score but that doesn’t apply to Margaret Curran!
    Put me down as a “Don’t care”.

  27. Macca73 says:

    Scotland has never been more awake in terms of politics yet Labour are asleep at the wheel.

    People are now asking what the’ve done in the whole time they’ve been in charge in Scotland and they don’t really have an answer for that question.

  28. Marcia says:

    Pity they don’t have a candidate with the surname of Scandells. Vote for Scandells. We will get that anyway.

  29. Johnny says:

    Cath @ 9:06am

    The daft thing about that strategy is, of course, that it alienates all those ex-Labour voters who want them to come at the SNP (and the Tories, for that matter) from a proper left-wing stance. I know from speaking to a couple of people who are very Labour minded (were in Labour groups at uni and that kind of thing) that they see full well that Murphy won’t do that and won’t go back to them if he takes charge. So, whatever they gain by that strategy, they are probably losing more of their core vote in the bargain.

    The sad bit, for me, was realising the same people I mention seem to think Neil Findlay would change things. Even if he really wanted to, it’s not as if he’d be allowed to by London Labour. When that penny finally drops (that the overall right-ward shift of that party is too far gone for any one individual to bring it back) then we will really be in business. Although I am not buying into recent ideas (in some quarters, supporters mainly) that he has clear policy etc, the reason Ed Miliband is getting knifed so badly by his own is much the same….he is unable to bring the party left (even if he wanted to, which seems doubtful despite perceptions in England that he is ‘left’) because of the sheer numbers within their party who are Tory-lite or Tory-max even!

  30. desimond says:

    I hovered my mouse over the picture to see the caption and then just found myself sighing at the sight of Arms-Junket Defence-Contract loving Jim standing there with his compulsory poppy

  31. Johnny says:

    Jackie G @ 8:42am

    Yes, it’s very annoying isn’t it? They are neither in power in Scotland or the UK and yet get so much coverage. The weird thing is that it appears to be employed to bum them up here and slag them off down South, so far as I can see. Either way, it’s boring.

    Why does the general public have to hear much more than the minimum about this leadership contest – hardly any of us has a vote, so there is no point them campaigning at us. Media, tell us who has won at the end. Candidates, bugger off and start canvassing our vote when you have won your own party’s. Or is that the point…..Murph has already won, so has to get a free run at starting his 2015/2016 election campaigns?

    I’d rather hear what our Scottish Government was getting up to, thanks, media hacks. It’s of more actual effect to our lives at present.

  32. Suzanne says:

    I wonder how many Labour voters are picking Murphy or Brown because they at least know who they are because of media coverage. Maybe some think that because someone is in the news that there must be some reason for their being highlighted, other than murder or scandal, so they’ll plump for that name. How many have actually researched who is a likely candidate and give their opinion based on knowledge of that candidate?

    How many within the sample are political activists, I wonder, how many are Labour party members and how many are Labour voters but not necessarily members? Or have I missed that?

    Still and all, the figures are grim and I’m astonished by the “don’t know / don’t care” results.

  33. Free Scotland says:

    It seems obvious to anyone who is genetically programmed to make political decisions that, when dealing with poisoned chalices, you vote for the candidate whose early demise as a result of poisoning would give you most satisfaction.

    Drink up, Jim. It’s just Irn-Bru, honest.

  34. Macart says:

    Don’t know, don’t care.

    They’re all rotten to the core and hung on an ermine dependency addiction.

  35. Luigi says:

    I think the ideal BritNat scenario would be to have a big business, Tory government at Westminster, and a useless, feeble Labour government at Holyrood. It’s the stuff unionist dreams are made of.

  36. Finnz says:

    I am reminded of the spoof film Kentucky Fried Movie when they take off the cells scene in Enter the Dragon.

    These are people who don’t know who they are and don’t care.

  37. Free Scotland says:

    Caption:

    Yep, that’s right. Ah only put 5 pence in the collector’s tin for this wee, red poppy.

  38. Susan says:

    I am not surprised that Gordon Brown and Jim Murphy are getting 29% and 28%, thanks to our beloved BBC these 2 have not been off our TV.

  39. Chic McGregor says:

    Wonder if Slim Jim is already regretting his gamble to become a big potato in a small sack given the recent scent of blood for the BLAB leadership?

  40. desimond says:

    @Chic McGregor

    After Gordon Brown, there will not be a Scot elected to a top job for many a year. People seem to think Murphy is simply sidelined due to Ed Miliband. Hes out in the cold in the whole party, yesterdays news. A man with no future, hence “Send him North”.

  41. Flower of Scotland says:

    Unbelievable! I was talking to a relative who is a NO Labour voter and I asked who she would like to lead SLAB. I asked her about Murphy and she wasn’t sure who he was. To cut a long story short after the conversation, she said that she would still vote for Labour in the GE. I asked her if she would vote for them if Mickey Mouse stood. She laughed and asked how I knew so much about a party that I didn’t support! Duh!

    Then was my chance to tell her all about Wings! I’m hoping that she might just have a look but somehow it’s more likely that she will always just vote Labour anyway!!

  42. desimond says:

    @Flower of Scotland

    And THATS why we lost the referendum!

  43. Ian Logan says:

    A good friend who is a lifelong nationalist has a trade union vote. He came around the other day to discuss which candidate to vote for. We quickly agreed that Murphy would cause the most damage so he got the vote. 🙂

  44. Ken500 says:

    Please stop showing photos of these people, it is depressing. Please show another image instead with their identification in small letters. It is less shocking and horrific. Less of a shock for patrons.

    Vacant coupon, often deluded. Goodness help us, if any of them ever come to power. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.

  45. chalks says:

    ‘desimond says:

    7 November, 2014 at 9:48 am

    @Chic McGregor

    After Gordon Brown, there will not be a Scot elected to a top job for many a year. People seem to think Murphy is simply sidelined due to Ed Miliband. Hes out in the cold in the whole party, yesterdays news. A man with no future, hence “Send him North”.’

    I wouldn’t be so sure about that, murphy has just conned Miliband into thinking he has done well by getting rid of murphy, murphy has gotten out of london and death by association of being in his shadow cabinet. Now he plots against him whilst in a probable position of leadership….it may be a scottish branch, but it does have influence and should miliband go, he’ll be looking for a plum place in the shadow cabinet

    Murphy of course, saw this all coming, he is a rat and can survive.

    He might even fancy himself as Labour leader

  46. biggpolmont says:

    I am with the dont know dont care ( the latter rather than the former)but thanks for the
    “Both are most popular with older voters – Murphy’s strongest demographic is men over 55,” I have never classed myself as an older voter before…….. sad day

  47. heedtracker says:

    The press and the BBC in Scotland want Murphy, we’ll get Murphy. Referendum showed Labour vote how they’re told as its all for their own good you see.

  48. No no no...Yes says:

    I was surprised that Jackie Baillie was not regarded as a prominent figure for this poll.
    As the stand-in Holyrood leader,she is very prominent and her performance is just as bad as Johann’s. Why, because they still have the same script writer, and they are clueless and out of touch.

    The picture of Jim Murphy is ideal for a caption contest, here are a couple of suggestions:

    Jim is explaining how many MP’s Labour will have in the next Westminster parliament

    Jim’s audition for the next Star Trek movie. The Vulcan sign needs a bit of work..

  49. ErinT says:

    I imagine the reason that Murphy is so preferred is due to the media coverage converging upon him and lifting him up as the saviour of Scottish Labour and therefore Scottish Politics and therefore Scotland. Or something. Who knows how the media weaves their strange ways.

    If Boyack and Findlay had been covered anywhere near as much as JM, the distribution would look better. JM though, is an easy target for an attack from the left. Just point at tuition fees, trident, pro-war etc.

  50. Robert Louis says:

    I may have missed it, but has somebody listed the Labour MP’s who are most likely to lose their seats next year, based upon current polling, reduced by a factor to account for the blatant unquestioning BBC support given to Labour in the run up to the election?

  51. think again says:

    Caption

    Jim Murphy is unable to speak but gives a visual representation of how many Scottish Labour MPs will be re-elected in May 2015.

  52. desimond says:

    @chalks

    The Aftermath of Brown for Labour and the Referendum Upstarts/UKIP/EVEL frame of mind for Tories have ensured the “Scottish” brand is deemed toxic in Westminster.

    On the plus side, The Tories got rid of Michael Gove 🙂

  53. Ken500 says:

    The failed tour was opportunistic to raise the above person’s profile, even by malicious coverage. What a loser. If any of these people get into any position of power in Scotland, Scotland is done. The policies they introduced are already killing people in Britain and abroad. Destabilising the world and causing havoc. These people are dangerous, most of them should be in jail, along with their collegues in Westminster. Dangerous liars.

  54. Dorothy Devine says:

    OT I see the Herald is giving us another ,” wizny me “article by the Ghastly Gardham .
    I did write a response but it seems that the guy with the OBE is allowed a plethora of abusive comment on the FM and my critique is disallowed as per usual.

    Here it is ,

    “Yet another” it wizny uz in the media manipulating the news” article.

    Another attempt to shift the blame anywhere but where it really lies , with a deceitful media willing to obfuscate and spin on behalf of the establishment.

    Who are you going to run to next?

    The Weir group whom you headlined as” Jobs will go?

    As the children in school say – ” The jobs went”

    To the Wood group whose chairman told those schoolkids only last year to get into the plentiful oil and gas industry – but this year said oil was running out headlined as ” the oil expert ” in this paper.

    Happily the Wood group is doing just fine having gained the fracking licence from the Westminster Government.

    Lloyds – ” Vote yes and jobs will go ” banking group?

    Just how many branches are going now that we have voted NO?

    No Mr Gardham , the media ,it’s much trumpeted VOW , it’s lying by omission and its defaming of the First Minister of Scotland have much for which to answer and I believe the people of Scotland have noticed.”

  55. HandandShrimp says:

    Name recognition counts for a lot. I doubt many know who Findlay is and even I thought Boyack had retired from politics.

    Murphy is going to get the MPs vote and Findlay the Union vote and Murphy will likely get the ordinary members vote because they simply recognise the name. That is unless Labour people actually do know how many members there are and Findlay gets his message out to them. How hard is it to canvas 8 to 12 thousand people?

  56. desimond says:

    Caption Contest:

    Murphy is asked how to show 2 + 2 on an expense claims form

  57. Ken500 says:

    Gordon Brewer
    Katrina ?
    Glen Campbell
    Sarah Smith
    Et al should be added to the list. Ask what folk think of them.

    They are all not recognisable but have a high profile and support the Labour/Unionists case. A cardboard copy could sit in Parliament and be of as much use.

  58. david agnew says:

    I am reminded of a line from house of cards:

    “A leader out of touch. A man of straw clutching at straws, his future closing in front of him like a fist.”

    Even if he wins, he then has to become an MSP somehow. A task fraught with peril for an expenses junky like murphy. I can the situation where labour does poorly in 2015 and again in Holyrood 2016. He won’t have had the job for a year and they will be pressuring him to resign. He’ll be too tainted with failure for him to ever rise to prominence again.

    You have to wonder if the party; now essentially a political ponzi scheme, hasn’t done this to essentially find a way of getting rid of folk like Murphy. The alternative is that they picked this clown as their last best hope for a revival, and that would be dumb.

  59. Haggis Hunter says:

    The British establishment have already chosen Murphy, so that’s what will happen.

  60. Robert Louis says:

    If I could vote, I’d be voting for Murph as branch manager. He has such an appalling back catalogue of behaviour, that he will ensure the further demise of Labour. More than that though, is that I and many others think he will be possibly the most divisive character possible in Labour’s Scottish branch office. Expect fisticuffs in John Smith hoose.

    O/T (ish)

    It’s interesting, isn’t it, the BBC were this morning muttering about who could possibly replace Miliband if he was deposed. It seems like their is no obvious candidate, yet, astonishingly, we already have the solution up here in Scotland.

    According to the propagandist BBC, Gordon broon is a skilled political ‘big hitter’ (no sniggering) and a ‘clunking fist'(??), so I think that the BBC should start promoting Gordon Broon for London Labour leader, in the same way they have continuously promoted Jim Murphy 24/7.

    In my dreams, Scotland-denier Broon will take his treacherous deceptions and lies about Scotland’s oil, pensions and transplants and bugger off to London, never to return.

    Wishful thinking, I know.

  61. Luigi says:

    After Gordon Brown, there will not be a Scot elected to a top job for many a year. People seem to think Murphy is simply sidelined due to Ed Miliband. Hes out in the cold in the whole party, yesterdays news. A man with no future, hence “Send him North”.’

    Yep, it is widely believed that Brown will turn out to be the last ever Scottish PM. Well done, Gordzilla! And with the more recent effects of the Scottish referendum, UKIP, the burning of Nessie, EVEL, etc, there will never again be a Scottish MP in the UK cabinet. They just won’t be liked or trusted. Unionist or not, if you’re a scot, no chance.

    Hard luck, Wee Douglas.

  62. jackie g says:

    O/T guys, looking for some info.

    As am a member of Unison,i have been toying with the idea of canceling my union membership as i dont want my money contributing to Labour funds any more.

    As Unison were quiet during the Independance debate i left it as it was but Recently they came out in favour of Neil Findlay,as the new labour leader.

    Question is should i keep in a union that i dont support, or keep my membership in case i ever need help with employment rights etc.

  63. Craig P says:

    I wonder how many MPs bought their poppies on expenses?

  64. osakisushi says:

    Off Topic but is there not something decidedly scary about 100,000+ people rioting in Belgium, also riots in Greece with Russia Today giving the events the first 10 minutes of the news at 8am today.
    BBC finished their top stories with something about a lost dog while Sky eventually gave Belgium a brief glance.

    Had we voted YES, would we have faced tanks on the lawn at Holyrood against a backdrop of media silence?

  65. faolie says:

    What would be hilarious is Kezia getting beaten by Katy Clark. Then we’d have two MPs ‘leading’ the party.

  66. Mealer says:

    Including Dont Knows the poll shows Libdems on 2%.That means they have less VOTERS than the SNP has MEMBERS.Sttrip out Northern Isles and the borders area and there can’t be many of them spread through the rest of the country.Greens still further behind which should be food for thought for those pursuing alliance.
    I wonder what Nicola would have polled among SNP members.

  67. MochaChoca says:

    I suspect it’s more the case that it’s not just the position of PM which will never again be held by a Scot.

    With the advent of EVEL there is little possibility of any cabinet role, possibly with the exception of International Development or (at a push) Defence going to anyone outwith England.

  68. Bubbles says:

    And of course, after the coronation, the winner will have to go out & actually get themselves elected to government. That Labour get any votes at all in Scotland is a damning indictment of our education system.

  69. Alt Clut says:

    Stu – I accept that who leads SLAB is important. Personally I think that Murphy is a ‘cert'(as well as some other four letter things) and that that will turn out to be bad for Labour and good for us.

    However, might it be that you are giving it a bit too much emphasis ?

    Locally, our issues are:
    *the nature and role of the ongoing YES movement;
    *business “as usual” or a a new, activist based, orientation for the SNP;
    *the relationship between the SNP and YES;
    *a ‘Yes Alliance’ or an ‘SNP+’ approach to the Westminster General Election.

    Might it not be more constructive if WINGS gave a bit more space to debating and reporting these, and similar, matters to help our restructuring in the new political world that we all bang on about ?

    It’s starting to nag at me a bit that we will begin to lose the new, post referendum, people if we don’t sort these issues out sharpish and get campaigning again !

  70. Free Scotland says:

    Caption:

    Talk to the hand. The head’s not listening.
    (OR)
    All I need now is a glove puppet, and it’s game on.
    (OR)
    My dentist says he will have to extract 5 of my teeth. Somehow connected to my addiction to Irn-Bru.

  71. Mealer says:

    Jackie G
    You should continue your membership and you should go along to meetings and make the case for independence.Argue for your union to dump the Labour Party because the Labour Party are bad for Scottish workers.Easy for me to say that…….but you might be able to find other members who hold similair views and give you a bit of moral support.

  72. HandandShrimp says:

    Murphy certainly doesn’t have a reputation for being a leader that unites people. His time in the NUS suggests that he is a bully and a divisive character. It may seem a little harsh to wish that on SLab

    but on the whole I think they deserve it 🙂

  73. Capella says:

    Regarding the demise of the Labour Party:
    The Kübler-Ross model, or the five stages of grief are denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.
    The BBC may still be in the denial stage, unless of course they are just cynically manipulating public opinion.
    Most ex Labour members will be in the first four stages. I moved on some time ago to acceptance peppered with recurring anger. At least that allows you to consider alternative ways of protecting our communities from marauding corporations.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%BCbler-Ross_model

  74. clochoderic says:

    I am astonished – we need to have a debate because it is obvious that we are not genetically programmed to pool and share.

    The BBC should stop sidelining Murphy in this conversation, we need a dialogue to reconnect with the party’s values and the Findlay / Boyack movement is obviously an SNP front.

    Ed Milliband has shown the way forward for Scotland by sheer dint of political sure-footedness in recent times – we are blessed with an embarrassment of talent.

    Magrit and Anus are still the best of pals, Wee Doogie is a strategic genius and Lord Ffoulkes is a byword for integrity.

    If only we could get our message out to the BBC and scottish newspapers the public would realise how wrong they are about us.

    Gie’s a job, McTernan …

  75. Sinky says:

    @ jackie g says:

    You should keep your Union membership but opt out paying the political levy to the Labour Party.

  76. Training Day says:

    As others have said, BBC Murphy at Pacific Quay would not have issued gushing paeans to Murphy on the day he declared his candidacy were they not assured he would win. The obsequious contributions from James Cook and Brian Taylor in particular were boak-inducing.

    Is Mags Curran the 1% who voted for Mags Curran as leader?

  77. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Despite Labours usual deception, Murphy’s appointment will push them further to the right. Looks like their ability to con their own supporters in continuing to collapse.

    He can only really go for tory voters, as defender of the union. The problem is there’s not enough of them. At best they would only replace lost Labour voters. Realistically, maybe 50%.

    Nicola will not move to the left. She doesn’t need to. She will hold the centre ground.

  78. chalks says:

    Jackie, I think you can tick a box on your membership form if you do not wish for your money to go to Labour.

  79. jackie g says:

    Mealer@11.01am

    Thanks that is a good point,although i am still uneasy about what my union dues are funding.

    I will get in touch with them and get a clearer picture before i do anything else, for as they say there is more than one way to skin a cat.

  80. Grizzle McPuss says:

    Caption…

    “Like me, my right hand doesn’t know what my left hand is doing”

  81. Muscleguy says:

    Well as an ex Labour voter now solidly SNP and a hardened Yesser I want Murphy as the he is easily the most marmite candidate who will split the party and alienate the soft support more surely than either of the other two. Both Findlay and Boyack will just bumble along not giving people much reason beyond ennui to leave. Murphy on the other hand will actively drive people away. Young women and young women are increasingly the bedrock future of political parties. Murphy could kill Scottish Labour with those figures. So he’s my man for the job.

  82. @osakisushi
    All foreign and domestic news that the citizens of the UK receive has been propagandized for decades ,I notice that the Catalans plebiscite on Independence from Spain on 9th November has been totally ignored.
    There are pictures of Spanish tanks and troops heading for Barcelona , there was also rioting in France at the weekend again totally ignored by UK media.

  83. Clydebuilt says:

    I’m for a Numptie to replace the outgoing Numptie.

    Therefore for me it has to be Jim Murphy. He is without doubt the biggest Numptie standing.

  84. clochoderic says:

    We are not genetically programmed for this astonishing debate. Findlay and Boyack are an SNP front, Ed Milliband is a man of the people, we need more Murphy on the BBC and Wee Doogie is nearly as good as Lord Fffoulkes.

    There is so much talent in the Labour party John McTernan renders himself unneccessary – if only the stupid voters would listen.

    That Nigel Farage would be good if he supported the sellick by the way but i think he is a hun so we should probably only vote for him if he hates the SNP more than Murphy does.

  85. Dr Jim says:

    I’m thinking of standing, i mean after all if the criteria for leadership is to talk to people, i speak to more folk on the way to the shops than Murfie did in his hundred day tour of the hundred places in the hundred cities in all of the world tour of the places he went and beyond infinity and somewhere else tomorrow i’m big and ugly so i am and on a hundred beta blockers a day
    Is the interview over yet, i can keep talking……

  86. Kenny says:

    While I think it is frightening to see a foreign corporate media (England) deciding beforehand the outcome of the election of “branch manager” in what was the original homeland of the Labour movement (Scotland), I do think that Eggman (Chicken Boy?) is a godsend!

    Murphy will both alienate what left-thinking voters the Red Tories still have and cause dissent and division inside the party with his own personality and rabid views.

    I believe he is definitely being seen by the WM elite as a “unionist” figurehead. But whose support is he going to attract besides Tories and other staunch unionists who would never have voted SNP anyway? I cannot see any LibDems being drawn to him; if anything, I think they would rather vote SNP to keep Murphy out, as his views are the opposite of their own (bar indy).

    So, all in all, I think Murphy is a godsend!

    I am also hoping Labour dip a few more percentage points in the UK GE polls, so that there is more infighting there and possibly even a coup against Milliband. He will be deposed after they lose in May, so why not have him deposed now, see them elect someone like Cooper (!), fail even more and then have to ditch her post-May as well!

    What is it about Labour and personality? Don’t they see it is the policies, stupid? Now, if the SNP were not to have Nicola, there would easily be a dozen others who could steer the ship along the same course. Of course, I am very glad we have Nicola — roll up the MurphMan for some comedy gold at FMQT (assuming he can even get elected to Holyrood!).

  87. Helena Brown says:

    Well I think Mr Murphy will be happy enough with those figures as Gordie is not looking for the seat. I think Murph is looking for a bolt hole where he is still top dog and wants in first before the rest see they are going to be shafted at Westminster.

  88. Lollysmum says:

    Capella says at 11.08am
    “The BBC may still be in the denial stage, unless of course they are just cynically manipulating public opinion”

    It’s the latter. Here in England BBC & rest of MSM doesn’t mention Labour unless it’s something major like yesterday’s rumours of a pending coup. MSM behaviour here is the direct opposite of MSM in Scotland.

  89. lorna cruickshank says:

    jackie g@10:42
    I would stick with unison you never know when you will need them.I’m a nurse and I need them for professional indemnity insurance.With regard to the poltical levy you can opt not to contribute to the Lab fund,only opt in to the political fund(not party affiliated) to assist with general campaigns or opt out of the political levy altogether.

    In fact there is an ongoing ballot on whether to renew the political fund and you should get your ballot paper soon,to be returned before 30th Nov.

  90. john king says:

    Scottie Dog says
    “Stu, “Slim pickings” should have read “Slim Pickens” – as in Dr Strangelove – yeeeeehhhooooo”

    This is he.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=snTaSJk0n_Y

  91. heedtracker says:

    If I was a BBC propagandist, I’d appreciate that there is going to be a short term backlash at both the BBC and the red Tories. But project fear won and won easily, so who would you need to keep it going? Jim Murphy. Proud Scot but cringers love this guy. He’s everything Scottish Labour think they are because that’s how the teamGB propaganda machine sold him. Classic Murphy “if I thought independence would be good for Scotland, I’d vote for it.”

    Diane Abbot on Andrew Neil show last night said Labour in Scotland were in an “exetensual crisis” but she believes they will win with their 40 MP’s and theyre in the bank. BBC etc are going to make sure red Tories win because it’s such a great UKOK set up for the Blue ones.

  92. Kenny says:

    @ Lollysmum

    Yes, yesterday I was looking for some more info on the Milliband story. A Google search brought up both the Guardian and the Telegraph, so I decided to go for the latter (what the hell, they are all stinking unionist papers). I was quite surprised at how much Nick Clegg was all over the paper like a rash. I thought he hadn’t been relevant for years. It is quite obvious the entire “old media” is now nothing more than a state propaganda machine.

    Imagine we didn’t have the internet and this was all we had?!?!?!

  93. yesindyref2 says:

    I didn’t want to say it before just in case, and am wary about saying it now just in case of a last-minute change of rules, but the one candidate I think the SNP and YES could have feared is Gordon Brown. A lot of people still respect and trust him.

  94. chalks says:

    Dianne Abbott will be getting advised by Big Brain aka Dougie ‘Let’s have a convention’ Alexander….he is hardly going to tell her that they might lose 10-15 seats….or more.

  95. Ananurhing says:

    Caption

    Coo-eee Israel… Hiya pal!

  96. HandandShrimp says:

    The speed with which the BBC fell upon the “mutterings” rumour should be a warning to Miliband. I do not think Labour are their favoured choice for 2015 and we all know how that tune plays here.

  97. Tamson says:

    I wonder how many recently-lapsed Labour members read this site?

    They will still have a vote in the Labour leadership election – vote Murphy! You know it makes sense for the cause of destroying the modern Labour party!

  98. One_Scot says:

    Can’t help thinking about the Daily Records front page demanding David Cameron to honour the ‘Vow’.

    A vow made up by a Labour media outlet that not only saved Cameron his job and reputation, but also destroyed the Scottish Labour support leading up to the next UK election in the process.

    David Cameron must be pissing his Etonian pants with laughter.

  99. Albaman says:

    You could not make this up, except its true!!, according to the Dundee Courier, Spud Murphy is wanting/going to find a position in the Scottish Labour Setup for ——-Gordon Brown!!, if that is not the kiss of death for the Labour Party in Scotland, nothing will kill them of.

  100. Capella says:

    I think Jim Murphy in that pic is just trying to emulate Greg Moodie’s excellent portrait of him:
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/11/05/jim-murphys-selfless-devotion-to-scotland/

  101. freethinker says:

    Alan McGee article worth a read…..

    …And burning an effigy of Eck and Nessie on the East Sussex County Council Bonfire is indeed insulting, especially as he’s wearing 45% and Yes badges, this will no doubt lead to more Scots joining the SNP and the 45% (That’s how we work in Scotland). But the First Minister has instead asked why “poor Nessie” has been targeted, he then stated “if this Tory council think I am a threat to Westminster like Guy Fawkes, then they are right!”

    The creators were obviously “threatened” by the 45% of people who voted Yes, which is a good sign. Keep up the pressure, this insult to the people of Scotland will add more members to the SNP, and also piss off a lot of No voters as well. Well done, Lewes.

    Sturgeon in Holyrood, first minister of Scotland, with devo-max in the bag, Salmond in Westminster, Parliamentary leader of 30-50 well disciplined MPs. Labour in disarray after losing Scotland, the Tories a shambles after Ukip take a good few scalps down south. Any politician in Salmond’s shoes would be licking his lips.

    The Referendum. Free Prescriptions. Free Higher Education. Free Concessionary Bus Travel. Bedroom Tax Revoked. Council Tax Freeze. Historic Poll Tax debts written off. A more politically aware country. The SNP have done more for Scotland in seven years than Labour in 70.

    For full article…
    http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/alan/snp-labour_b_6113762.html

  102. pipinghot says:

    Could not agree more One_Scot, WTF were they thinking?

  103. donald anderson says:

    Reply to jackie g

    When you join a Tame Union you automatically “agree” to pay a political levy which goes to the Labour Party. If you withdraw from paying a levy to the Royal Lumpen party your levy automatically goes to a political fund. Guess where the political fund.

    Unison was one of the Unions that persuaded the Scottish Branch to remain “Neutral£ during the Referendum campaign. Guess which side they actually supported?

    The RMT does not support HM Lumpen Party and supported the Yes Campaign. Bob Crow was a real exception.

  104. liz says:

    Very unfortunately apart from the people actually in the labour party, the average Lab voter seems to be totally uninformed.

    At an SNP branch meeting in East Ren last night, the membership has nearly quadrupled.

    They were saying that Lab and Con members there combined are less than the SNP but Lab are 1st and Con a close 2nd.

    Why, cos most folk vote for who they’ve always voted for and the media are against us.

    Interestingly Douglas Fraser on twitter is almost admitting a mistake in the BBCs reporting of how much oil is in the Nth sea- too late now of course.
    https://twitter.com/BBCDouglasF/status/530660241621680128

    .

  105. Fred says:

    Murphy, “Big potato in small sack”? “Pig in poke” more like!

  106. Croompenstein says:

    Is that Jim holding up his date for tonight 🙂

  107. Jacqueline says:

    Watch parliamentary tv and really surprised there isn’t more support for Boyack. Maybe that is part of their problem, failure to listen to sensible people

  108. heedtracker says:

    Sorry, Diane Abbott said Labour In Scotland are in an Existensial crisis and wike says,

    “Recognize that you’re having an existential crisis. If you’re questioning the meaning or purpose of your existence, or if the foundations of your life seem shaky and transient, you might be experiencing a crisis (usually called “existential” because it relates to ideas explored by the philosophical school of existentialism), which may result from:

    The sense of being alone and isolated in the world

    A new-found grasp or appreciation of one’s mortality

    Believing that one’s life has no purpose or external meaning

    Awareness of one’s freedom and the consequences of accepting or rejecting that freedom

    An extremely pleasurable or hurtful experience that leaves one seeking meaning.”

    This is the complete opposite of the Blue Tories but If only we could elected or NOT pay the wages of our chums in Pacific Quay.

  109. Robert Louis says:

    jackie g,

    If you think you might need the union, then you could simply make sure your membership is no longer partly used to fund the Labour party. This comes from you membership fees, and can be changed so you no longer fund Labour. That way you have the union, but know that YOUR money is not funding Labour.

  110. john king says:

    Dr Jim @11.36

    Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. 🙂

  111. Dr JM Mackintosh says:

    Who is that Don T. Care guy?

    He seems to be a shoe-in for the job – the peoples choice.

    Should have gone for the bunny…
    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/10/29/scottish-labours-brave-new-dawn/

  112. manandboy says:

    @MochaChoca
    “Seems as if the whole election thing is just for show.”

    You’ve hit the nail on the head MochaChoca.

    From day one, everything about Murphy, including his 100% confidence, has conveyed the impression that the Party has already taken care of the result.

    We are now to all intents and purposes living in the post-democratic age.
    As has been said before, in a neo-Liberal world,
    the stakes are too high to be left to the voters.

  113. heedtracker says:

    @Liz, Scots oil reserves are lied about all the time and by men like Fraser. They are playing with Scotland now and proud Scot buts like it.

    Could this be the alleged secret offshore oil bonanza kept hidden from Scots #indyref voters? bbc.in/1Eam8Jm #qtwtain

  114. Nana Smith says:

    O/T

    Does anyone have a list of Scottish companies in the cbi.

  115. I hope this link works. If it does you will see the Labour shift and Murphy’s

    twitter.com/_andstillhave/status/530672231907856386/photo/1

  116. handclapping says:

    As a friend of Israel, Jim’ll know that Labour is only being tested to show its true worth and adherence to the Laws. I know they have had their troubles, muddles not fiddles, killing fields, the great debater, even the slaying of the firstborn (Eh Ed, eh?) but now he has come as Moses to lead the people to the promised land where they will slaughter the Essenpee and take the place appointed for them from the begining of Time.

    Some hope

  117. Clootie says:

    jackie g says:
    7 November, 2014 at 10:42 am

    O/T guys, looking for some info.

    As Sinky already stated you can opt out of the political levy. At one time this was worth a couple of weeks payments. However be prepared for a long fight as you will encounter significant “technical”/”Admin” challenges as you try to opt out.

  118. ronnie anderson says:

    Would it not have been easier to geneticly re programme Johann
    to enable her to make those big decissions, noo dont be thinking am helping the Lab party,am only thinking of US Cybernaticuses,we,ve suffered enough P&&& more.

  119. Sean McNulty says:

    INDYREF2 NEXT SUMMER?

    Farage is saying his price for coalition with Cameron would be a summer 2015 EU referendum, not 2017.

    So why can’t the SNP run next May on a platform promising Indyref2 NEXT SUMMER, if a referendum has just voted us out of the EU?

    Note that a summer 2015 indyref would therefore mean Nigel Farage coming up to Scotland AS DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER to tell us how to vote. How many Yes votes might that be worth?

  120. Ananurhing says:

    @ Nana Smith

    It would seem even CBI Scotland are confused over it’s membership numbers.

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/is-the-cbi-being-honest-new-revelations-in-cbi-crisis/

    “It is often said that the CBI have 24,000 Scottish members. This is not the case.

    In January this year The Telegraph reported

    … “the CBI did not represent the views of companies north of the Border, pointing to Business for Scotland signing up 1,100 (now 1,800) members. However, this is dwarfed by the CBI, which has around 24,000 members in Scotland that employ 630,000 people”.

    “The same article then goes on to say: “The CBI has around 240,000 members across the UK”.

    The 24,000 figure is used over and over again on websites and in the media and we believe it is not possible for the CBI to have either 24,000 Scottish members or 240,000 UK members.

    CBI Scotland Council member Anthony Rush has admitted, that the CBI may only have around 100 members and “he does not know where the true number of Scottish companies lies.” The CBI is so secretive about its membership numbers that even some of its Council Members do not know how many they have. Business for Scotland highlights that there is no evidence that the CBI have more than 70 companies – the vast majority of which take a neutral stance on Independence and were not consulted on the CBI’s support for and involvement in the No Campaign.

    To put it another way, since this story broke on Friday, 73 Scottish business people have joined Business for Scotland – that may be more new individual members for Business for Scotland over this weekend than the CBI has organisational members from Scotland.”

  121. galamcennalath says:

    I like lots of other posters get confused when considering SLab candidates.

    It’s too easy to slip into positive more and consider which would be the best candidate from a SLab perspective ie who might possibly get them out of the mess! Neil Findlay jumps to mind. Others have mentioned him as a good candidate.

    THEN ….. Wait a minute, I want to see them choose a complete incompetent numpy! I want them to choose the wrong person (from a SLab point of view)! I want someone who won’t make any positive changes, someone who will keep SLab completely in tune with LonLab policies and under their thumb.

    Murphy could be just the right person 🙂

  122. Dr Jim says:

    “BLOW FOR SALMOND” and all them at Holyrood and their followers…No opposition can be found for to oppose them at the Questioning time, Sturgeon assigned task of being Unionist parties reperesentative until such time as a non Splittist person can be found, BBCs Jackie Burd considering her position by answering all her phone calls, just in case

  123. lochside says:

    @Cath. You’re right Murphy is the ‘Unionist front’ candidate. That’s why BBC Scotland and the msm are crowning him ‘leader’ already.

    As we want a ‘YES’ coalition to fight the GE in 2015, so they are preparing for phase two of stopping the INDY bandwagon.

    The narrative and targets are the same: i.e. massive coverage of ‘Scottish’Labour’s leadership election…despite there being no such entity and with a ‘leader’ who will hold no power or influence; total deletion of any positive stories about the SNP or the Scottish government..witness the A9, NHS, Sectarian legislation bad news; notice the handling of the LEWES’ effigy burning…with the usual chattering class glove puppets displaying amused disdain at any negative reaction, by ordinary people, to a public racist act against not only AS, but the Scottish people.

    People should remember that before the Referendum, the popular vote for the Euro election in Scotland was split almost equally between SNP/Greens at 493,998 and the Tories/ukip etc./Libdems at 495,421. The Labour vote was 346,377.

    During the Ref. the Labour vote was split between YES and NO. but it is unlikely that the 40% of our electorate that are conservative right, and entrenched unionists, will move to’YES’, therefore the Labour vote is the group which will give us the tipping balance in the 30+ constituencies required to make an impact in the GE.

    The question is: how many of them can resist the wall of propaganda pouring out on a daily basis from the msm?
    Murphy is a beguiling liar, and the small ‘c’ conservative Labour voter (mainly older) does see him as preserving order and the status quo. Tories etc. will back him, and are already doing so publicly (e.g.Cochers) in a bid to stop YES having a second bite.

    Murphy is and appears, to YES people, as a clownish imposter, a charlatan without scruples or ideology other than for advancement of his own career. But to a large constituency consisting of non social media users, elderly, and convinced anti-Indy Unionists he is being painted by our poisonous msm as a safe pair of hands.

    This false image must be destroyed at every turn and by every means in order to discredit him, his party, and the media. Otherwise we face year zero forever with the Orwellian image of a (Unionist)boot stamping on a (Scottish) face forever.

  124. Jim McIntosh says:

    Caption Contest

    “Stop calling me a smurf, look, I’ve got FOUR fingers and a thumb. And anyway, smurfs are blue and I’m a red Tory.”

  125. a2 says:

    Goes with their voting intentions, don’t know and don’t care who it is as long as it says labour on the ballot paper buecaus… just because.

  126. a2 says:

    I didn’t mean to mis-spell that.

  127. Stoker says:

    jackie g says:
    7 November, 2014 at 10:42 am
    O/T guys, looking for some info.
    As am a member of Unison,i have been toying with the idea of canceling my union membership as i dont want my money contributing to Labour funds any more.
    _________________________

    In my opinion, Jackie, ditch the bitch.

    Unless a union came out and clearly declared it was 100% pro Scottish Independence i wouldn’t put a single penny near them.

    Labour backing unions have played no small part in destroying our country and promoting the “party at all costs” line.

    The unions need to wake up, move with the times and recognise that the SNP are now the party best suited and positioned to look after the working classes. But that’s not going to happen until people start withdrawing their support from these unions.

    As for the Slabber branch vacancies – it does not matter who they put into those positions because they will always do what their London masters tell them and they will always be against Scottish Independence.

    Therefore, i would never vote for any filthy Red Tory ("Tractor" - Ed) under any circumstances. Let their remaining followers mastermind their own downfall. To help put any candidate in a job is to support a ("Tractor" - Ed) who stands against Scottish Independence.

    OR, as has been previously suggested, you could stay on and fight to change things from the inside – good luck with that one.

    As i said, Jackie, just my opinion.
    😉

  128. crazycat says:

    @ jackie g

    http://www.unison.org.uk/about/our-organisation/political-affiliations-and-support/

    http://www.unison-scotland.org.uk/polfund/

    As lorna cruickshank said above, Unison (unusually) has two political funds, one associated with the Labour Party and one for general campaigning. You can continue to contribute to the latter while opting out of the former. It is a good idea to belong to a union, even if they are not always particularly helpful!

    As a member of Unite, I did not have that choice, and opted out decades ago in order to avoid funding the LP – I would have been prepared to support more general activities, so I think you are fortunate to have that extra option.

  129. jackie g says:

    Stoker:

    I think you may be right,

    The Unions are steeped in the labour party and will not change unless people like myself stop paying for them.

    On the night of the referendum they were dancing with the tories and that to me was the most dispicable slap in the face for Scotland and it is something i will not forgive them for.

  130. msean says:

    UK to pay half after saying they aren’t paying any,whats this also about the interest free thing? Anyway,they are still going to pay lol.

  131. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T

    Received email from SNP. They are sending out 64,000 new member packs today. Not sure what that means in terms of overall membership as I am not sure what it was before IndyRef.

  132. Capella says:

    @ CynicalHighlander
    Good skype interview with George Monbiot. Thanks for the link.
    http://new.livestream.com/IndependenceLive/GeorgeMonbiot

  133. liz says:

    Listened to the George Monbiot interview, he was very complimentary about WoS and other indy sites.

    I realise Fraser is a BBC person but at least he is acknowledging the ‘cover up’ of the new licenses.

    We have to continually expose BBCs lies.

  134. AuldA says:

    @Proud Cybernat:

    Yup, got the same mail. No, there aren’t sending that many packs today. They say postage would stretch until November, 21st.

    Replied I didn’t mind being the last to receive my card. Over here in France, it can hardly serve any purpose.

  135. heedtracker says:

    BBC tv UKOK stuff here in England today, a missing dog is found in Fells or Peaks, it’s little paws were bleeding too, prince Charles mocks a Australian news guy, from 40 years ago, massive thing on poppy exhibit at Tower of London, there’s been a murder, everywhere. Wrap the Union Jack tight around yourselves jocks, they died for you.

  136. Stoker says:

    James Caithness says:
    7 November, 2014 at 2:08 pm
    http://www.twitter.com/_andstillhave/status/530672231907856386/photo/1
    _________________

    Interesting link, James.

    NNS are currently running a good article on this subject.

    And only this morning i came across one of THE best articles i
    have ever read on the subject and i’ve read quite a few.
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-dirty-game/

  137. Now's the Hour says:

    The pic – Jimbo shows why he failed the audition for The Simpsons.

  138. yesindyref2 says:

    Sean McNulty
    I think that’s a definite. They’d cover the date just by saying that if Scotland votes to stay in and the UK out, a referendum would be neccessary for Indy in Scotland.

    The last of the SNP packs are due to go out on the 21st November. Those going to Sturgeon events are OK just with tickets, those for the conference can get a temp card.

    I remember posters saying they’d like to go on the forums. Perhaps if they email Murrell they can be given their membership details by email, so they can get on.

  139. onelessday says:

    An article from newsnetscotland when it was still in its infancy

    Not much has changed with sunny Jim since then

    http://newsnetscotland.blogspot.co.uk/2010/03/murphys-british-nationalisms-are.html

  140. @Capella

    It was good and well worth a listen.

  141. Stoker says:

    Anyone else notice this seems to be happening more and more?

    Nameless/authorless articles by “The BBC”.

    I suppose, maybe the dipstick filthy ("Tractor" - Ed)s who sold us the lies
    prior to the referendum have mortgages to pay and they really are
    that cowardly they don’t want exposed for what they are – SCUM.
    https://archive.today/jAF7z

  142. Lesley-Anne says:

    Apologies if this has already been mentioned. 😉

    Congratulations Stu, you have made the big time. I found this link to an STV report from yesterday on voting intentions in next year’s General Election and it appears to be based on the findings of YOUR recent poll by Panelbase. So it would appear that at least SOME journalists are finally beginning to waken up to the idea that there is an alternative to the print and T.V. news media and that alternative is called Wings Over Scotland. 😛

    http://news.stv.tv/scotland-decides/298686-poll-suggests-snp-could-control-47-scottish-seats-at-westminster/

  143. snode1965 says:

    Gordon Brown is the most popular choice for leader amongst labour voters!! The lowlife who Lied about pensions,Lied about blood transfusions,Lied about sick children’s GOSHospital? The “man” who Vowed to deliver Home Rule one week, only to stand up at WM foaming at the gob, demanding that the Tories give us F**k all the next week? I guess it wasn’t just the highlands that were cleared to make way for the sheep. Still it is telling that the most popular pair by far, Brown and Murphy, are the most proven egotistical deceivers…baaa..baaa!

  144. Nana Smith says:

    @Stoker

    Could be why Carmichael is so keen to let Westminster have all the oil and gas. His way into the hol I suppose.

    Is treason still recognised in Scots law.

    http://www.newsrt.co.uk/news/carmichael-don-t-devolve-oil-and-gas-revenues-2747083.html

    http://www.newsnetscotland.scot/index.php/scottish-news/9535-rumours-of-massive-oil-find-follow-camerons-secret-shetland-visit

  145. McBoxheid says:

    O/T
    I’ve been reading and occasionally posting on wings since just before Indyref. I am over fifty and live in Europe and found it next to impossible to find any balanced, or anything to balance out MSM/BBC, about the debate pre/post Insyref then I found WoS, Bella etc online. For people to get a true picture of whats going on in our country and the whole of the UK, they have to look at sights like this one. But, is a site that asks the relevent questions, thanks Rev Stu, but gets a large number of vitriolic anti establishment, better together, Westminster, Slab etc, rhetoric with at times pretty crude language, going to encourage any NO voters to think about the reasons 45% voted YES? If a modicum of respect for freedom of choice and time spent discussing the issues on both sides in a more civilised manner with pros and cons and reasoning, instead of belittling any NO voter that may or may not be having doubts about the way they voted, or indeed YES voters that are changing their minds was the norm here, then the hearts and minds of more potential pro indy would be won over. I feel sure that people who weren’t sure about certain issues, would feel less put off to asking questions and this would save an awlful lot of knocking on doors at the last minute. Reading the comments on here, that I do daily, there are some that do explain things in a manner that I find educational and friendly and others that are just as bad as the MSM/BBC. I know this is an open forum with no censorship, but it is also one of the main pro indy go to sites for getting info and joining in the discussion. It could be a lot more successful as an online resource if it was less partisan, less negative to those who aren’t sure what to do.
    My other point is why do people, including our pro indy selves, speak about putting people in POWER instead of saying electing them to REPRESENT the PEOPLE of Scotland?
    Brown, Murphy, Lamont and all the Tories automatically think that they have the right to rule us because we empowered them to do so. Maybe I’m naive, but if people started using rhetoric that let the politicians know that the people know that they are OUR elected representatives and that they don’t have to tell US what to, but rather they have to do what we have elected them for, then maybe things would be different. They have taken power from the people because the people allowed it to happen. They think it is their right. The SNP leadership, on the otherhand, speak of representing the WILL of PEOPLE of Scotland and to me, that can be seen by their success at Holyrood and it is also reflected in the latest surveys. We are all working together for the people of Scotland I hope, all the people including those who voted NO in our first referendum. 45% is a huge success and we shouldn’t be looking to just get 10% more, we should be reaching out to every last man and woman in Scotland in a tolerant and informative way.

  146. Dezcore says:

    OT… Boyack wants shot of council tax freeze and add local tourism levy. Just heard on Clyde1.

  147. Lesley-Anne says:

    With regards to the next *ahem* leader of the Labour party branch office (Scotland) I really want to say that I don’t give a flying whatsit about any of the *cough* candidates. 🙂

    However, having given much thought and lost countless hours of sleep worrying exactly over this precise question 😉 I find myself moving away from the don’t give a flying whatsit position to now being in one of backing Murph the Smurph. Let’s face it anything or anyone, not quite sure which word describes Murph the Smurph best so I included both there 😀 , that drives Labour supporters AWAY from supporting Labour MUST be a good thing and there is nothing around at the moment with more ability to achieve that than good old Murph the Smurph. 😛

  148. gfaetheblock says:

    Quote – What we can say for sure, though, is that whoever’s leading Scottish Labour at Christmas will be the first choice of, at the very most, just over a quarter of the party’s rank-and-file membership

    I don’t think you can say this, unless all the labour voters in the subset of your poll were paying members, which considering their level of membership would be incredible.

  149. Gus Coutts says:

    Coming to a Remainder Bookshop near you:-

    The Complete Encyclopaedia of Jim Murphy Publicity Photographs Volumes 1 to 10.

    Caution do not expose any of the photos anywhere near a mirror.

  150. Bunter says:

    Fraser of BBC North Britain tweets of sad tale of huge drop in sales of London based Daily Retard and Sunday Tale.

    Lets all mourn.

  151. chalks says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-29956289

    EU related…..is there anything the EU won’t do for the UK?

    Jesus christ.

  152. think again says:

    Stoker at 2.42

    The link you gave, see below, is new to me but the sentiments are familiar. Dave sounds a year or few older than me but the area, the religious persuasion and the politics are / were the same. In the 70`s I told anyone who would listen it was not the Labour vote as such that was the problem for the SNP but the Catholic Labour vote. Perhaps in places it still is.

    Both Jim Murphy and Neil Findlay are Catholics, no secret, but the Catholic Observer has an article today with their photos saying the next leader is likely to be a Catholic, possibly this is their preference and they are happy to guide their readers. To be fair, they point out that the only other Catholic to lead a party in Scotland, post Devolution, was John Swinney.

    Murphy, I think to his shame, is still playing the faith card. He helped, so he says, bring Pope Benedict to Scotland, he is not yet leader or even an MSP but he – presumably he means his party – will repeal the Offensive Behaviour at Football Act.

    Of all the legislation that Scotland needs or doesn`t, as the case may be, this should be far from his first priority or that of the SNP.

    But of course Jim`s first priority is Jim and it seems he will continue to play the dirty game.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-dirty-game/

  153. Graeme Doig says:

    Stu

    You should have warned us of the offensive nature of the image you have posted with this article.

    That is the same shameless, condescending smile and wave he gave protesters outside the Central Hotel the other day. It nearly got him lynched and me a free nights B+B.

    The man is a complete imposter and is the perfect leader for a party who should be charged with impersonating a credible political party.

  154. wingman 2020 says:

    Meanwhile over on the Guardian, BTL commenters are bitching about the deliberate and sustained negative coverage on Milliband, by the MSM.

    Imagine the BBC repeating the Bacon Sandwich clip?! And Labour worthies complaining about bias.

    Such sweet irony.

  155. fred blogger says:

    scottish labour loses it’s branch status and become’s a twig.

  156. Graeme Doig says:

    Chalks

    ‘EU related…..is there anything the EU won’t do for the UK?’

    From the start this was always a set up so the uk govt could claim a victory in the end. A complete stitch up. What’s new in wm politics?

  157. Devereux says:

    @McBoxheid: ‘If a modicum of respect for freedom of choice and time spent discussing the issues on both sides in a more civilised manner with pros and cons and reasoning, instead of belittling any NO voter that may or may not be having doubts about the way they voted, or indeed YES voters that are changing their minds was the norm here, then the hearts and minds of more potential pro indy would be won over.’

    I agree with much that you say as an occasional contributor and long term browser. There remains a huge barrier now to reaching those still wanting to rely on MSM uncritically – a large section of the 55. On the other hand, would any of them use Wings anyway? And it is the Wings bite that is so very attractive to many who do like to challenge orthodoxies and who are not a homogenous group. There is a major cultural dissonance going on in Scotland exampled by middle class parents who should thank the SNP for saving them small fortunes in education fees and yet who allow English owned right-wing newspapers to persuade them to hate and fear the very party they should thank. How to resolve this will be the difference between winning and losing next time. On the other hand, demographics being what they are we seem to be moving in the right direction. Irvine Welsh’s idea that all of Scotland is, whether they know it or not, involved in nation building is very pertinent. The dilemma for Wings et al is the same for the SNP (not so much for the Greens and SSP). How to softly pull in the 55 while keeping up the pressure. Diluting Wings – I am not so sure. Perhaps it is time folk involved in politics let it all hang out, painful as it sometimes is. The last 2 years have shown us that it is a better kind of politics than sound-bite UK.

  158. gillie says:

    Sales of the Daily Record and Sunday Mail in free fall. Down by 15% and 17%.

    Murray Foote must be shitting himself.

  159. gillie says:

    BBC Radio Scotland listening figures in free fall as well.

    Couldn’t happen to nicer people.

  160. blackhack says:

    Looks like this brick is getting more support on Facebook than Murphy….
    https://www.facebook.com/pages/Love-of-Bricks/321067768095240?fref=nf

  161. dmw42 says:

    Chalks / Graeme Doig re ‘EU related….is there anything the EU won’t do for the UK?

    All is not as it seems, or as being ‘spun’ by Gideon.

    I just listened to the live press conference and although still to be agreed, approved and validated by the Commission, the EU in principle note that all member states that owe the increased adjustment will not have to pay by 1 December 2014, but can pay (in two tranches) by 1 September 2015.

    Furthermore, the EU has not ‘halved’ the UK’s debt at all, but merely allowed next years (guaranteed) rebate to be offset against the £1.7bn owed.

    The member states that were due a refund will not now receive this until the UK (and others) have paid their debt.

    To quote VP Kristalina Georgieve “some member states have screamed bloody murder”.

  162. liz says:

    @gillie is there a link to these values?

    You would be amazed at the number of ‘left’ wing folk who still go on about the council tax freeze benefiting the middle class most – it doesn’t.

    It benefits the people who earn just enough not to qualify for a rebate, but not enough to struggle paying their bills.

  163. chalks says:

    @dmw42

    That much was evident from the BBC article about it…..my point is, the EU is only too willing to do business to suit the needs of it’s members.

    Common Fisheries Policy rebate being just another example of this.

    The UK screams and shouts at the EU, yet is afforded favour after favour, just look at Juncker letting the UK decide who they want to be on the commission in charge of financial reg and markets….yes the UK!

  164. @chalks
    Ref article on Clare field,
    `the giant Clair field, where current estimate for in-place reserves is around 8billion barrels of heavy oil`
    Even at today`s $87 dollars a barrel thats about $700 billion and the price of oil will readjust soon to nearer $100 dpb.
    Remember that is just the Clare field you still have the North Sea oil.
    No wonder it would` brake Camerons heart` if we decided on Independence.

  165. caz-m says:

    Totally agree Graeme. 3.43pm

  166. Macandroid says:

    heedtracker

    More oil & gas drilling licences sold by those lying squanders of Scottish resources down in Westminster even though there was no more oil previously, allegedly.

  167. Helena Brown says:

    With regard to Unison, this union was the result of the amalgamation of two Unions, Nalgo which was non affiliated and Nupe which was affiliated to Labour. I never paid the political levy to Labour even as a shop steward, any contribution I made went for campaigning for Union matters. I know my Husband tried to get remove his political payment to Labour whilst in the CWU, he asked quite a few times for the paperwork and never ever saw it so I know this can be difficult but I think if you ask for it to be stopped and only pay towards Union campaigns I think you will get the paperwork. I know it is a good long time since I was in Unison but I think you will.

  168. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Osbourne lies again

    From the EU Monitor

    “The national contributions were not discussed, but since Britain has a yearly rebate on its contribution – negotiated in the 1980s by then-prime minister Margaret Thatcher – this means that it will only have to pay around €1 billion by next year, instead of €2 billion by December as originally calculated by the commission.

    “We’ve halved the bill, we’ve delayed the bill and we’ve changed the EU rules permanently,” British finance minister George Osborne said on his way out of the meeting.”

    His claims were denied by other finance ministers, who said that Britain’s contribution was not changed and that it was all due to the British rebate system.

    I wonder how the Daily Heil and Torygraph will play this?

  169. donald anderson says:

    donald [dot] scotrepublic [at] ntlworld [dot] com

    You will have to be very persistent to get them to stop your unasked for political levy to the Labour Party. If and when you finally get it the money will go to a political fun over which you have no control, or accountability, over.

    They knew what they were doing when they destroyed all the Scottish based Unions and SCWS in 1974.

    You can get a full list of all the previous Scottish Trade Unions In Professor James Marwick’s “Labour in Scottish History”. There was a pamphlet by a Marwick (not sure if it was his dochter, of the same title.

  170. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Osbourne is confusing the sum to be paid with cash flow.

    He pays half this year and half next year. Some of the money will be asserted to be part of the UK budget rebate, which is coming anyway.

    Not even a cunning plan.

  171. Chic McGregor says:

    Caption

    Murphy checks out the egg-proof screen he will be using in future.

  172. Stoker says:

    Nana Smith says:
    7 November, 2014 at 1:05 pm
    “Does anyone have a list of Scottish companies in the cbi.”

    Sorry, Nana, been looking for hours and found hee haw.
    _________________

    think again says:
    7 November, 2014 at 3:28 pm
    “Murphy, I think to his shame, is still playing the faith card.
    But of course Jim`s first priority is Jim and it seems he will continue to play the dirty game.”
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/the-dirty-game/

    Yes, TA, there are no levels to which that steaming heap of excrement would not swoop. The creepy slimebag should be hunted all the way back to London.

  173. Nana Smith says:

    latest message from Jack & James
    ________________________________________

    New Broadcast News Service for Scotland

    This week we can finally tell you a little bit more…
    We have finished our filming for the next part of the project, a short video which will be launched, at the same time as our new website, on Monday at 11am!
    We’re busy getting everything in line for the launch of the website and will be in the office all weekend trying to get the word out.
    We couldn’t have gotten to this stage without all of you, so it’s only fair we let you know what’s happening before everyone else, so here’s what we’ll be telling the press over the next few days.
    Scottish News will provide a 30-minute online news bulletin every day.
    Details of the project are laid out in a video to be posted at 11am on Monday 10th November 2014 at: http://www.scottishnews.scot
    Called the Scottish Evening News, the bulletin will be unique in providing well-resourced, high-quality video coverage of international, UK and Scottish stories from a Scottish viewpoint. It will focus on reporting facts, not making comment. It will bring the perspective of the people to Scotland to bear on the main events of day, wherever they happen.
    Scottish News is a social enterprise, funded by individual donations. The bulletin will be free from the influence of shareholders, politicians and advertisers.
    The team will be hiring full time journalists, correspondents, production and technical staff. And the show will be the flagship component of a national news package focused around a comprehensive up-to-the-minute website, including supplementary video news, accompanying resources, and extended analysis of the day’s stories.
    While the bulletin will broadcast daily in spring 2015, the team plan to move it to a digital TV channel by 2018, at which time it will expand to provide 24 hour broadcasting.

    Currently, as you know the team consists of Jack, James and Carolyn, and we are very happy to announce that we have been working with Stewart Kirkpatrick who has come on board as a consultant, and brought with him a wealth of knowledge and experience.
    We apologies that this email wasn’t with you earlier this morning, we’ve been trying to keep to a set time for our weekly updates! We’re still going to be keeping you all updated week to week, but we’ll also be launching our social media pages on Monday along with our website where you can keep up with what’s going on.
    We’ll send you all an email on Monday to let you know where you can find us on Facebook & Twitter and to let you see our new website!
    Thank you for your continued support.
    Yours, the Scottish News Team.

  174. CameronB Brodie says:

    No wonder Jim Murphy appears to be in denial over whether socialist/human values are compatible with Zionism. Even his leader(sic) appears to conflate opposition to Israel’s often xenophobic nationalist politics, with anti-Semitic sentiments. Why else would he give such a ringing endorsement to Israeli Labour leader, Isaac Herzog, and renounce the one course of action likely to bring change to Israeli politics?

    What came home to me on this trip was reasonable people on both sides have a sense of what a resolution looks like.

    Two states for two peoples, based on 1967 lines with mutually agreed land swaps, with Israel as the homeland for the Jewish people and the state of Palestine as the homeland for the Palestinian people, and with each state enjoying self-determination, security and mutual recognition.

    We know that compromises in key areas must be made on both sides.

    We must also do nothing that will get in the way of peace.

    So we are clear that the threat of boycotts of Israel is the wrong response. We do and we will resolutely oppose the isolation of Israel. And my party does so.

    http://www.lfi.org.uk/489/

    Hold the press! Opposition to Zionism IS anti-Semitic!

    “There is a long trail of anti-Semitism in Europe, which includes one-sided articles and anti-Semitic harassment, topped by the torching of the synagogue in Switzerland. This is a great challenge for the Israeli government to deal with,” Social Affairs Minister Isaac Herzog said.

    “Israel must fight this, and the entire international community should take part in the effort,” he added.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3407905,00.html

    And just when you think you are getting your head around the skulduggery employed to sponsor Zionism.

    Herzog: Not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic

    Opposition leader tells Conference of Presidents that boycott movement is a threat that can only be averted by peace.

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Herzog-Not-all-criticism-of-Israel-is-anti-Semitic-341774

    Any the wiser yet peeps?

    ONCE derided as the scheming of crackpots, the campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions against Israel, widely known as BDS, is turning mainstream. That, at any rate, is the fear of a growing number of Israelis. Some European pension funds have withdrawn investments; some large corporations have cancelled contracts; and the American secretary of state, John Kerry, rarely misses a chance to warn Israel that efforts to “delegitimise” and boycott it will increase if its government spurns his efforts to conclude a two-state settlement of its conflict with the Palestinians. Israel, says Yair Lapid, Israel’s finance minister, is approaching the same “tipping point” where South Africa found itself in opposition to the rest of the world in the dying days of apartheid. “Let’s not kid ourselves,” he told a conference of security boffins recently in Tel Aviv. “The world listens to us less and less.”

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21595948-israels-politicians-sound-rattled-campaign-isolate-their-country

    Changing the subject, perhaps. Bertrand Russell thought it was the moral responsibility of governments to promote propaganda, in order to manage public expectations and to encourage cooperation with the state. However, Bertrand is probably better known for the Russell Tribunals on Vietnam (1966-1967) and on Latin America (1974-1976). Here is what the Russell Tribunal on Israel thinks.

    CONCLUSIONS OF THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL SESSION OF THE RUSSELL TRIBUNAL ON PALESTINE
    Barcelona 1-3 March 2010

    18. The conclusions of the Tribunal will deal, in turn, with:
    – violations of international law committed by Israel (A)
    – breaches by the European Union and its member states of certain specific rules of international law (B)
    -breaches by the European Union and its member states of certain general rules of international law [C]
    -failure by the European Union and its member states to take measures against the violations of international law committed by Israel and to identify what remedies may be available (D)

    http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions/barcelona-session

    http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions

    @ Jim Murphy
    Please can you explain the substantive difference between the above, and an apartheid state. One which you are happy to endorse your friendship, along with your leader, ‘Not so Red Ed’.

    Please keep in mind Benjamin Disraeli’s ambition for a proto-fascist One Nation Britain, the creation of a Jewish homeland (Zionism) and a tame Ersatz labour movement.

  175. CameronB Brodie says:

    I may have just lost a long post, so here are the links.

    Ed Miliband wears brown lipstick for Israeli Labour Leader Isaac Herzog.

    And I can tell you that a major priority for a Labour Government would be to further collaborate, building stronger working relationships between British and Israeli companies……

    So we are clear that the threat of boycotts of Israel is the wrong response. We do and we will resolutely oppose the isolation of Israel. And my party does so.

    http://www.lfi.org.uk/489/

    Opposition to Israel’s own particular brand of xenophobic nationalism (Zionism), IS anti-Semitic – Isaac Herzog.

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3407905,00.html

    Herzog: Not all criticism of Israel is anti-Semitic

    http://www.jpost.com/Diplomacy-and-Politics/Herzog-Not-all-criticism-of-Israel-is-anti-Semitic-341774

    Israel, says Yair Lapid, Israel’s finance minister, is approaching the same “tipping point” where South Africa found itself in opposition to the rest of the world in the dying days of apartheid. “Let’s not kid ourselves,” he told a conference of security boffins recently in Tel Aviv. “The world listens to us less and less.”

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21595948-israels-politicians-sound-rattled-campaign-isolate-their-country

    CONCLUSIONS OF THE FIRST INTERNATIONAL SESSION OF THE RUSSELL TRIBUNAL ON PALESTINE
    Barcelona 1-3 March 2010

    http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions/barcelona-session

    http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/CONCLUSIONS-TRP-FINAL-EN-last.pdf

    http://www.russelltribunalonpalestine.com/en/sessions

  176. CameronB Brodie says:

    test

  177. Effijy says:

    If Labour can find Michael Foot’s old Duffle coat in time, it could be a late contender. It has Nine Buttons but you can only
    fasinate. (Fasten Eight)lol

  178. CameronB Brodie says:

    Just lost two post and I’m not sure if it is the filter.

  179. CameronB Brodie says:

    Is discussing political support for Israeli nationalism verboten?

  180. CameronB Brodie says:

    test

    Ed Miliband rejects boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS), as a legitimate means of seeking peace in the Palestine.

    http://www.economist.com/news/middle-east-and-africa/21595948-israels-politicians-sound-rattled-campaign-isolate-their-country

  181. CameronB Brodie says:

    test2

  182. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    think again at 3.28

    It was amazing to realise that that community had marched down in majority across Central Scotland to vote YES.
    It wasn’t them that let us down. It was the smug, complacent, selfish, middle class Scot and his peculiar “loyalist” relations.

    Jim Murphy knows the score here. It is no accident he is having a go at the anti sectarian legislation in concert with the Daily Record who only quote two disgruntled Celtic supporters who have been caught at it. Labour has lost a huge part of the Scots/Irish vote which is its central Scottish bedrock. We must make sure they do not get it back again.

    When I wrote “The Dirty Game” for Wings it was to alert everybody of the importance of that vote to Labour. It remains a critical element and we can expect desperate efforts from them to get it back

  183. CameronB Brodie says:

    What is the difference between the Scot’s will to self-determination, often described as Scottish nationalism, with the support of Israel as the Jewish homeland?

    One is supported by British Labour and the corporate media, the other isn’t.

    Ed Miliband and Jim Murphy wear brown lipstick for Issac Herzog.

    Ed Miliband Speech to Labour Friends of Israel’s Annual Lunch 2014

    http://www.lfi.org.uk/489/

  184. CameronB Brodie says:

    test

    Ed Miliband rejects boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS), as a legitimate means of seeking peace in the Palestine.

    Ed Miliband Speech to Labour Friends of Israel’s Annual Lunch 2014

    http://www.lfi.org.uk/489/

    (correct link this time)

  185. derek cameron says:

    Classic ” fake ” face from vacuous Jim.

  186. Stoker says:

    Photo caption: Speak To The Hand Coz Labour Ain’t Listening.

  187. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi McBoxheid and Devereux.

    I read both your contributions and was nodding in agreement.

    But…

    You both posted one humongous block of text in a wunner, which is pretty sore on the optical nerves. No spaces at all, to relieve our eyes. I’m guessing a number of peeps managed half a dozen lines then gave up, due to text overload.

    If you check out the page advice at the link below Which you’ll find just above the comment box – “Comment – new users please read this page first for commenting rules.” (“this page”, in blue, is the link to it), you’ll find,

    “So please, please, please put some paragraphs breaks into your posts. One after every two or three sentences is a good ballpark figure. And as you’re using the internet, not a typewriter, there’s NEVER, EVER any reason for hitting Return once. It’s either none or two, depending whether you’re starting a new paragraph or not.

    Terrible use of paragraph breaks (which includes using none, or far too many, or sticking loads of extra ones at the beginning or end of your post for no appreciable reason) will put your comment at severe risk of deletion.”

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/About/

  188. Annette says:

    I have just received this:
    Reference CAS-3000664-2JC6RR

    Thank you for taking the time to contact us on 1st November 2014. I understand you are unhappy as you feel there has been disproportionate coverage with regard to the leadership of the Scottish Labour Party.

    I appreciate your concern with this however I wish to assure you the BBC has very clear guidelines to ensure that politicians receive an appropriate level of coverage and our editors are required to follow them carefully.

    The amount of airtime the BBC gives to a politician or party in the run up to an election is based on evidence of past and current levels of support. This can include the number of speeches they are making, how they performed in the last election and other evidence of current electoral backing.

    We take our obligation to provide fair and impartial coverage very seriously and we are confident that our reporting was balanced, proportionate and in line with our editorial guidelines.

    The BBC does not seek to denigrate any view, nor to promote any view. It seeks rather to identify all significant views, and to test them rigorously and fairly on behalf of the audience.

    They seek to provide the information which will enable viewers and listeners to make up their own minds; to show the political reality and provide the forum for debate, giving full opportunity for all viewpoints to be heard.

    Account needs to be taken of the way a subject is covered over a period of time and across all our platforms not just the BBC News Website; perfect balance is difficult to achieve on every single occasion while overall it is a more achievable goal.

    I have noted your concerns on an overnight report which has been made available to senior staff and news editors across the BBC. This means your comments can be consulted in future broadcasting decisions.

    Thanks for getting in touch.

    Kind regards

    Sean Lonergan

    BBC Complaints

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/complaints

  189. Annette says:

    Oh, and my e-mail software put it into the junk mail folder. 😉

  190. Devereux says:

    @Brian Doonthetoon Fair point … will do better 🙂

  191. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Devereux.

    Your willingness to comply is endearing!
    (Paula Rose will hae meh guts fur garters fur parodying her an’ thah’…)

    8=)

  192. donald anderson says:

    Sorry to hear Annette has gained a pen friend and nothing else. Typical EBC waffle. Pants’ on fire again.

  193. Annette says:

    This is my reply:
    Dear Mr Lonergan,

    Thank you for your reply to my complaint. I do not appreciate the manner of your reply, which implies that you think I am utterly stupid. Your claims are in contradiction to the evidence. You say:

    “The amount of airtime the BBC gives to a politician or party in the run up to an election is based on evidence of past and current levels of support. This can include the number of speeches they are making, how they performed in the last election and other evidence of current electoral backing.”

    This is patently untrue, because BBC Scotland are giving a disproportional amount of attention to the Labour Party. Labour has not won a Holyrood election since 2003, and they lost the last general election to the Conservatives. In the last European election, they were outperformed by the SNP in Scotland and by UKIP UK-wide, so” performance at the last election” is not a valid point at either Scottish, UK or European level. Labour are projected to lose nearly all their seats in the next general election, “current electoral backing” is low and sinking fast.

    It is true that Jim Murphy has given a lot of speeches lately, but they were mostly to two-figure or even single-figure audiences, i.e he was speaking to fewer people than I do on a daily basis.

    On the other hand, the SNP has been in government in Scotland for the last seven years and electoral backing for them is at an all-time high, with even cautious projections expecting them to take the majority of Scottish seats in the next general election, and optimistic polls suggesting as many as 54 seats. They are also projected to win the 2016 Holyrood election by a comfortable margin. Polls have also shown that Nicola Sturgeon is the most trusted politician in Scotland, followed by Alex Salmond.

    Ms Sturgeon is currently touring Scotland giving speeches to huge audiences; tickets for the SSE Hydro, seating capacity 13000, were booked out within 24 hours. Furthermore, membership of the SNP has risen to 83000, making them, though only based in Scotland, the third largest party UK-wide with more than twice as many members as UKIP.

    A comparison of membership with the Scottish branch of the Labour Party is not possible, as Labour are keeping their current membership numbers secret, but since they last claimed to have around 13000 and have lost a large amount of them since, it is a feasible assumption that their membership is only around 10% of that of the SNP and barely higher than the Greens. Based on these FACTS, and if your claims were true, the SNP should receive wall-to-wall coverage from the BBC, when in reality they receive less attention than Labour, who by your own criteria are now a marginal party in Scotland.

    You say that the BBC “seek to provide the information which will enable viewers and listeners to make up their own minds.”

    I have not seen the BBC provide the information that Mr Murphy is pro-Trident, pro-Iraq war, pro-tuition fees, pro-Israel and pro-apartheid, that he has claimed expenses in excess of £1 000 000 and that he was reprimanded by a House of Commons motion for his “intolerant and dictatorial behaviour” in his role as leader of NUS. Clearly these are facts the Scottish public should know about a man who aspires to become First Minister, or how else are they supposed to make up their minds if not on the basis of political stance and professional conduct? Could you please show me evidence that the BBC has provided this crucial information? If you do not, then I take it as proven that you have withheld this information from your audience – deliberately, it has to be assumed, as it is widely available and indeed discussed elsewhere.

    You say, “We take our obligation to provide fair and impartial coverage very seriously.” This is again untrue in this context, since Laura Bicker has called Jim Murphy on live television “our candidate.” I have made a separate complaint about this, to which I have not received a response.

    I find it offensive that you attempt to respond to my complaint with a list of general policy statements which the BBC is blatantly obviously NOT following. Be assured, the general public is aware of this. I am a real person in the real world talking to real people. I know that the BBC is nowadays referred to as “BBC Pravda” by many people. My mother-in-law, who is nearly eighty and only marginally interested in politics, says, “Oh, of course the BBC is terribly biased.” The BBC have lost almost all credibility; I have even heard American acquaintances say that they used to respect the BBC, but not anymore. This is scandalous for a public broadcasting institution that is funded by licence payers’ money. The BBC is morally obliged to set the Gold Standard for high quality, objective journalism, and it is failing completely.

  194. donald anderson says:

    Well done Annette. Brilliant. But, we mustn’t forget whom we are talking to. Watter aff a duck’s back and all that.

    I have made several, specific and detailed complaints to the EBC and their replies always ignore all I have put to them and they just stonewall with Britspeak and waffle.

  195. Annette says:

    Sure they will, but I want them to know that we are smarter than they are and I want them to feel on the defence.

  196. Croompenstein says:

    That’s wonderful Annette, you may not get a decent reply from them but at least you are keeping the fight going well done..

  197. Free Scotland says:

    Anyone fancy a laugh?

    https://archive.today/eYGTy



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