The less-deserving pro-independence website

Wings Over Scotland


Quoted for irony

Posted on September 24, 2013 by

In a piece entitled “Scottish Labour leader says nationalism is a virus”, the Courier yesterday reported that Johann Lamont’s speech to the Labour conference “appeared to allude to the European 20th century fascist movement”.

blondelamonte

And it did, although perhaps not in the way the Courier probably meant.

“The discovery of the Jewish virus is one of the greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged today is of the same sort as the battle waged, during the last century, by Pasteur and Koch. How many diseases have their origin in the Jewish virus! We shall regain our health only by eliminating the Jew.” (Adolf Hitler, February 1942)

Lamont’s attack doesn’t warn of fascism – it steals its language wholesale, for the exact same purpose (of vilifying opponents as sub-humans), and in much the same way that Labour, led in this particular case by Lamont, have stolen that of the Tories.

It’s ugly stuff. But maybe that’s the real reason she’s dyed her hair so blonde.

Print Friendly

1 Trackbacks/Pingbacks

  1. 20 06 14 18:48

    Why We Need Wings | A Wilderness of Peace

418 to “Quoted for irony”

  1. Luigi says:

    Love the photo edit – fanatastic!

  2. cath says:

    Ein nation, ein reich, ein volk. NO to foreigners!

  3. scotty says:

    god she really is awful isnt she!

  4. Robert Louis says:

    So proof, if proof were needed, of the lack of coherent thought within the head of Johan Lamont.  Do you think she will even understand what it is that she has done?  Or will somebody have to sit and go through it with her, step by step?

  5. Robert Louis says:

    Cath,
     
    Exactly.  Sums up ONE NATION Labour and what that really means.

  6. Donald MacDonald says:

    Despicable woman. Despicable Party. Despicable politics.
     
    I must go and be sick…

  7. Luigi says:

    Looking at the image above, it is just as well JL does not have black hair and a funny moustache.  I have definately seen and heard very something similar before.  Spitting image.  The language is certainly familiar.

  8. annie says:

    What a thoroughly nasty piece of work she is.

  9. Luigi says:

    If that right hand was raised ever so slightly…..
     
    scarey stuff!

  10. Taranaich says:

    I was actually having a wee look around for actual Nazi “virus” quotes, but didn’t have any luck. Well done, Rev.

  11. BeamMeUpScotty says:

    Bet they don’t argue that nationalism is a virus when it comes to an EU in/out vote.
    If they do,England will punish them at the polls.

  12. HandandShrimp says:

    I wonder what the hell she was thinking…I suspect some of the more sophisticated Labour folk might be wondering the same thing. Of course the Labour organs in Scotland notably the BBC will undoubtedly give her a free ride.  

  13. Thepnr says:

    Senator John McCain, former Republican presidential candidate who lost to Obama also described the Arab spring pro-democracy movements as a virus. “This virus is spreading,” he said.
    Take on the establishment and this is the result.

  14. Tinyzeitgeist says:

    So at the very least one third of the Scottish electorate are now considered to be a virus by Lamont. The woman seems to be dangerously deranged and it doesn’t bode well for Scottish politics if she continues with this sort of extreme language. Not a good day for democracy.

  15. The_Duke says:

    Forgive me Rev, slighty O/T ….I know Scottish_Skier alluded to it (but based abroad i have seen none of the party “highlights”) I did catch a quick glimpse of the Union flag behind Ed which had a minuscule amount of blue in it.
     
    One nation, really did look like the flag of St George.

  16. Murray McCallum says:

    Well maybe New Labour have a long term strategy after all. Renewing the anchluss and vilifying all who stand in the way of the One Nation.

  17. Craig P says:

    A few lines from a poem:
     

    Information is the virus now
    the ballot-fouling killer pox.
    Our keyboards are the carriers now
    McCrone is out the box.

  18. annie says:

    Read an article recently when Johann Lamont was interviewed and the writer said Johann “visibly bristles” at the mention of Alex Salmond’s name – what inspires such hatred.

  19. tartanfever says:

    Equally worrying, I haven’t come across one journalist yet who’s taken it upon themselves to treat this comment with the utter disgust it deserves.
    The language from Curran and Lamont is disgusting.

  20. simian hoofer of the daily mail says:

    Very apt i would say.

  21. Albert Herring says:

    I think you’re all being awfy unkind to poor wee Jo. She doesn’t actually write this pish, she only reads it out.

  22. Elizabeth Sutherland says:

    Would my Yes badge now be seen as the Star of David patch?

  23. simian hoofer of the daily mail says:

    Nasty woman even the lowest of the low wouldn’t use such inflammatory language. it just proves how rattled and fearful her stairheid and the rest of the liebour aparatchniks are.

  24. Ian Mackay says:

    Don’t give her ideas! Imagine her next speech, mined from Hitler’s speeches, replacing the word Jew with Nationalist:

    The discovery of the Nationalist virus is one of the greatest revolutions that has taken place in the world. The battle in which we are engaged today is the same sort as the battle waged during the last century by Thatcher and Blair. How many countries have their origins in the Nationalist virus! We shall regain Scotland only by eliminating the Scottish Nationalist.

    and:

    If I am ever really in power, the destruction of the Nationalists will be my first and most important job.

    but maybe not:

    There was a time when the Nationalists in Scotland also laughed at my prophecies. I do not know whether they are still laughing today, or whether they have been cured of laughter. But take my word for it: they will stop laughing everywhere.

  25. BlueTiles says:

    And people still vote Labour in Scotland.  I think we all know the media reaction if a Yesser had said anything like she did. The level of toxicity Better Together are bringing to this debate can only mean one thing – they’re bricking it big time. Now if only some big-named fence sitters see the way the wind is blowing and jump on board or at least condemn this crap.

    Iranian and Russian television do a better job of covering the rally than OUR own media. Now Lamont labels at least a third of the population of her country a virus.

    How to lose friends and alienate people, eh Johann?

  26. benarmine says:

    I have a nation, we marched for it on Saturday, and it really doesn’t need such poisonous attitudes as those demonstrated by Ms Lamont and her party. It’s a much better place than that. From the swamp they inhabit it really must be impossible for them to see what is possible here. Their rhetoric disgusts me but it will not stop us reaching our goal and building a better society.

  27. I actually used to feel a wee bit sorry for her sometimes,  after Alex had wiped the flair with her. Not any more! She is the lowest of the low and deserves everything that is coming to her!

  28. Ananurhing says:

    Perhaps at next years march, we should all have a yellow felt thistle sewn on our shirts.

  29. Luigi says:

    I think you’re all being awfy unkind to poor wee Jo. She doesn’t actually write this pish, she only reads it out.
     
    True – is she being set up?
     
    The clever senior politicians in the Labour Party are keeping their options open.  Cue the union flag (or is it a union flag?) at the party conference.  Ed Milliband will swing right or left, whatever it takes.  He will ditch Scotland if necessary.  The Grunts in Scottish Labour seem to be willing to go down in order to save the union.  They will soon be abandoned by their dear brothers and sisters.  How sad.

  30. Jimmuckmc says:

    An opportunity for someone to come up with a lapel badge
    incorporating yes and virus

  31. creigs17707repeal says:

    This MUST be challenged. These people and this kind of thinking MUST be challenged. And it must be challenged at every step by all decent, clear-thinking, moderate people and that includes the MSM (print and broadcast). Failure to do so is akin to the acquiescence of the German establishment which saw the rise of NAZI Germany. Are you listening Scottish Media? Do you see what is happening out there, Scottish Media?
    FFS Scottish Media open your eyes and grow a pair. Just because I do not share the views of this ‘One Nation Party’ does not make me a virus or vermin. Shame on you Lamont. Shame on you, the Scottish Media, for NOT challenging this behaviour. By so doing you are assisting the rise of a ONE NATION FOURTH REICH. Get a grip Scottish Media and REALLY LOOK AND SEE who are telling the truth and who are telling lies. FFS speak up for Scotland before it’s too late.

  32. Helpmaboab says:

    Let’s continue the biological metaphor.
    If nationalism is a virus then the Labour party is a parasite, an infection, a plague, a pestillence, and an embarrasing weeping sore.

  33. Training Day says:

    I look forward to the Scottish media taking Lamont to task just as they did Iain Gray over his comments about ethnic cleansing and Montenegro.

    There’s a remote possibility that they might instead focus on how shite Scotland would be with its own Olympic team.

  34. The Man in the Jar says:

    A “Virus” are we? That is rich coming from a party of parasites.

  35. david says:

    that sycophantic nedette is nastier than any virus known to man except man-flu. as previously mentioned, deserves everything thats coming to her. im embarrased by her behaviour

  36. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ creigs17707repeal – I concur with you and well said

  37. alexicon says:

    Heard her saying on UK national news ” the country” meaning GB/UK.
    That’s enough to make me boak.
    I will never kneel down to her description of my country being a region.
    What a cow. What a lackie.

  38. muttley79 says:

    @Robert Louis
     
    So proof, if proof were needed, of the lack of coherent thought within the head of Johan Lamont.  Do you think she will even understand what it is that she has done?  Or will somebody have to sit and go through it with her, step by step?
     
    I don’t think Lamont would understand the significance of the language she has used.  If somebody did explain it to her I think she would deny it I am afraid.  I think it illustrates that the No campaign are aware of something (not really sure what though).  Might be their private polls, might be something else.  It does seem to suggest that they are in almost full panic mode.  I did not expect them to use this kind of a rhetoric until next year.  That they have used it now, with still almost a year to go, is significant.  The No campaign know themselves that they are running a negative campaign, but to stoop so low so comparatively soon does not suggest a great deal of confidence among their own ranks.  To use the word “virus” to describe your opponents now is not really giving yourself much room for stepping up the rhetoric further, as we get closer to the referendum.  It raises the question; what kind of a rhetoric are Lamont and company going to be using in say 6 months time, or with a month to go to the vote?            

  39. kininvie says:

    …meanwhile, the hashtag #spreadthevirus is having a good outing on Twitter! As ever, scathing humour rather than outrage is the best weapon…. As for Doug’s “I’m Y.E.S. positive”, reported as seen elsewhere – the sooner that’s a car sticker, the better!

  40. Mad Jock McMad says:

    Anyone seen the graphic for Milliband’s revamp of Harold McMillan’s One Nation Tory scam – it is basically a St George’s Cross, everything else is faded out and the St Patrick’s Cross has been removed in its entirety.
    Labour are clearly left appealing to one nation – England.

  41. david says:

    the rhetoric of the damned

  42. Helpmaboab says:

    The man in the jar,
    “That is rich coming from a party of parasites”
    We seem to be thinking along the same lines. It must be subconscious.

  43. david says:

    johan lamont.. first minister of scotland

  44. gordoz says:

    Mags Curran & Jo Lamont – Ugly stuff indeed (no pun intended) the acceptable face of modern Labour in Scotland ??? …. Jesus.

    Are Labour supporters not offended by this ??

    Scotland versus  Salmond (what is this  pish ?? )
    What is particularly crass about the statement’s are that they are likening the most transparent, socialy inclusive, popular, non elitest, political movement on the planet to facism and the Scottish press & media  just chuckle in the wings; both sad and disgusting that this pair reprobates are not called to account by the lack of decent journalism and much needed impartial reporting.

    Its like Labour keep pushing the boundries with Sarwars public lies and now this, to see how far they can go and why not … only biassed YES supporting webisites will cry foul.

    Scotland how low can you let this kind of stuff go !! 

    Just what will come out next ??

  45. Caramel log says:

    Really , why is anyone surprised or disgusted with this woman and her party , these people are swamp life corrupt brown envelope grabbing , och I’m awY for a lie doon

  46. GrahamB says:

    The_Duke, Luigi
    Aye, the Butcher’s Apron has been given a ‘pastelisation’ so the blue is almost unnoticable and the red is a pale pink. Will their closing anthem this year be ‘The People’s Flag is ever so slightly red …’
    O/T Moribund claims in his speech today that he will freeze (no pun intended) energy prices if Labour win the next Westminster election! Only way he could have the power over the energy companies to do that would be to re-nationalise them. We can of course expect a huge hike in enrgy prices before the election, just in case. What other nonsense will they come out with. Beginning to sound like they don’t expect to win so they can announce all sort of pie-in-the-sky rubbish.

  47. jim mitchell says:

    It would seem that i am not the only one who has been giving some thought to who has been writing JL’s speeches of late, not that that excuses what SHE says.
    I am one of those folk who whilst being on face book hardly ever comment there, when I heard her virus speech though I did go on it to say the following,
    ‘Anybody who knows me, I mean really knows me, will understand when I say, that whilst I have as many faults as your average human being, I have never judged another person by their race, colour, nationality, ethnicity, religion, sexual orientation or so help me their politics, however much i might disagree with any viewpoint they may hold generally.I am a Scot married to an Englishwoman, I come from a pretty close family which includes folk with every political view point and none, some who are serious in their religious believes and some who have none at all.

    I was raised with people who are still friends and with whom whilst we could discuss any subject and disagree, we never fell out about them, because all of those I mentioned allowed me my viewpoints as well, it’s called respect.

    That is why it annoys me greatly that a political leader, namely Labour’s Johann Lamont, can liken some of them, ( I don’t care about myself), and some of the things that they both believe/believed in, work and worked/for to a virus. Sadly some of those I mean are no longer with us, but not one of them, for all their faults and they were only human too, deserved this.
    Every one of them has come from a solidly working class background and each of them only ever did what they thought was best for their communities, their country and most of all their families and ALL of them went about it in a lawful and peaceful manner.

    I realise that we are now in the most important part of Scotland’s history for 300 hundred years, but there is still no need for this kind of thing.

    I will finish by saying that if ANYBODY tries to agree with the Labour leaders viewpoint, then whilst they too will be entitled to hold such a warped view point, they will no longer be able to consider themselves my friend’.
    I have always said that just when you think that unionists, or at least some of them can’t sink any lower, they do.
    Maybe not much of a protest but it is meant!
     

  48. david says:

    i didnt listen to her speech simply because i dont want to listen to her  and i hate her, i assume the audience reaction to the virus terminology was muted or non existant

  49. muttley79 says:

    @creigs1707repeal
     
    The Scottish media are just a regional element of the UK media.  They are all part of the British establishment and state.  Why else would virtually no newspaper based in Scotland openly support independence, given that around 40% of the Scottish electorate support it (the Sunday Herald occasionally gives hints it supports it, but when the crunch comes will they actually advocate a Yes vote?)  It is because they are, and have been for a considerable period, directed by the British establishment.  Even RT covered the rally on Saturday in far greater depth than are own so called broadcasting channels.  Why is this?  I believe it is because the British state is trying to deny us the oxygen of publicity.  On the other hand, whenever there is a story that is perceived to be bad for the Yes campaign, the MSM in Scotland are on over the story, and it features at the top of the bulletins.  This is not by accident either.   

  50. Murray McCallum says:

    GrahamB
    Freezing energy prices.
    What would happen if market energy prices went down over the period of the freeze? Would they carry it over to the next increase? What will the price of electricity be in 40 years time? We need answers.

  51. simian hoofer of the daily mail says:

    Hopefully history will not remember her or her kind fondly. At the end of the day she is nothing more than a stooge and puppet whom takes all it orders from her masters down in London. She really is a pitiful drone who really shouldn’t be involved in politics full stop.

  52. Arbroath 1320 says:

    What an odious, disgusting, pathetic, ignorant, useless politician with her Naziesque type comments.
     
    Will someone please pass me the sick bucket…………..QUICK!!!!

  53. david says:

    is it true she won  missl westminister 2013

  54. Desimond says:

    Lamont/ Baillie invite Cancer sufferers to Holyrood and Ed Miliband drags out a woman who has had heart problems. Labour –  willing to lower ever bar of common decency at any opportunity.

    As for Virus – Can we have sponsor someone to play “Mr Virus” like Mr Chop in The Thick of It. Get them to pursue Johann and her SPADs at every possible opportunity.

    Laughing here, Jackie Baillies website is a .co.uk, a company, that says it all for me!
    www.jackiebaillie.co.uk

  55. Daughter of Evil Reindeer says:

    Her speech is like that game where you take certain words and try and fit them into a coherent sentence, which I guess is what the spin people have tried to do with hilarious results. 
           
    Unfortunately for Johann many in Scotland are blessed with memory skills greater than hers, we  still have the ability to remember  her past speeches   “something for nothing” condemning  free prescriptions, the council tax freeze, and personal care for the elderly. 

    If this has an impact on Easterhouse I can see a real punch up with Margaret Curran.
                   
    We also remember the days before twitter and how information was communicated in reasoned paragraphs.

    For the benefit of Johann a paragraph is something a bit longer than a Scottish Labour leaders contract period.

    Close the door behind you on the way out.

  56. Thepnr says:

    This time it’s a “virus” in 11 months time it will be a “cancer” implying almost certain death for those that are inflicted by it. Truth is that it is they who are slowly withering away and by Sept 2014 will be no more. I won’t shed any tears.
     
    Reading “Tax Havens” by Nicholas Shaxson and it is absolutely shocking, two sentences stuck in the mind though and could well be used to describe Better Together:
     
    “They will call for reasoned debate as they engage in character assassination, secret deals and worse. They will talk the language of democracy and freedom the better to defend unaccountable, irresponsible power and privilege.”
     
    That for me just about sums up todays Labour party.

  57. colin mccartney says:

    much as i hate the sexist term “dumb blonde” she really is just a dumb blonde, and most dumb blondes are at least good looking !!

  58. handclapping says:

    Ein Volk   = English (sorry I mean British), nae furriners
    Ein Reich   = One nation at Westminster
    Ein Fuhrer  = I dont know if she means call me dave or ever so slightly pink Ed
     
    Ironic that the Leader of the Scottish Labour Party is speaking under a “One Nation” banner. Why doesn’t the Leader of the Yorkshire Labour Party get to address the brothers and sisters too? IMO a YLP would have more members than JoLa’s lot.

  59. Xander says:

    Perhaps Labour will grant the unions an extra day of public holiday (perhaps another May Day holiday) and then disband them as happened in another One Nation state somewhere in central Europe several decades ago.
     
    I recommend that those who have little knowledge of the slide towards fascism watch the excellent documentary series “The World at War” originally broadcast by Thames television (copyright 1973 Thames Television Ltd). Imho it is a warning to all generations of how media and political manipulation can change a society for the worse. Indeed the series was old enough to include many video interviews of those who were personally affected by the political upheaval – pay particular attention to the German interviewee who returned to Germany from England as a young man and was aghast at the hysterical nature of the German media. To paraphrase, he knew then that war was inevitable and what a fool he had been to leave his English fiancee and return to Germany at that point in time.

    The mainstream media in Britain no longer have the intellectual capacity to protect democracy as they once claimed to.

  60. Arbroath 1320 says:

     
    Ananurhing says:

    Perhaps at next years march, we should all have a yellow felt thistle sewn on our shirts.
     
    I like your thinking Ana. I wonder how the nasty Brit press would cover that story, oops I forgot they won’t. Nothing to see/report here move along now!

  61. Kendomacaroonbar says:

    I’m SNP positive and I’m a carrier.

  62. creigs17707repeal says:

    @muttley79
     
    Hi – I take on board your points about the MSM being controlled by the British establisment etc. BUT….but… there are many Scots who work in this media and I suspect many will be indy-minded. Those people MUST speak up to their bosses and point out to them what is really happening. Those are the people I would implore to SPEAK UP for the sake of Scotland and for the sake of democracy. I will NOT be told that I am a virus just because I do not support the views of EIN NATION FOURTH REICHEN.
    Come on you gals and guys in the MSM – you MUST speak out and challenge these unreconstructed fascists before it’s too late (even if you DON’T support indy you must do it). And I know you read these posts.

     
    YES Scotland.

  63. KillieBoab says:

    Just watched the BBC news headlines with the awful picture of ‘Oor Magrit’ jumping to her size 10s as if Milliband was Justin Bieber.
    Where’s the sickbag?

  64. Kendomacaroonbar says:

    killie.  I guess she knew the camera was on her

  65. John says:

    Every time I see Lamont in her make up and garb I’m reminded of the adage “Ye canna polish a turd”

  66. Desimond says:

    Ed Milibands speech relegated well down the pecking order on BBC Scotland News.
    Heads will roll!

  67. GP Walrus says:

    Will Project Fear be now renamed Project Domestos?

  68. panda paws says:

    Appalling language from Lamont.
    Saw an excellent riposte by someone on Stewart Maxwell’s twitter feed
    “Unionism is more like smallpox. People just don’t get it any more.”

  69. art1001 says:

    I am Yes Positive.

  70. Albalha says:

    Fraser Nelson really is in his own strange planet. Thinks JL’s speech was rather good.
    http://archive.is/ULnaK

  71. Boorach says:

    Nice bodyswerve by Milliband in his speech laying the blame for the bedroom tax firmly on the Tories!
     
     

  72. Murray McCallum says:

    Sorry O/T but linked to the big energy price freeze New Labour policy announcement. Given the financial importance of the UK market you could imagine shares of energy companies were going down?
    EDF: EUR 0.36 Up
    E.ON: EUR 0.14 Up (A Xetra DAX top 10 riser today)
    RWE (npower): EUR 0.35 Up (A Xetra DAX top 10 riser today)
    SSE: GBP 0.17 Up
    Centrica: GBP 0.00
    Strange – almost as if they think this policy will never happen.

  73. jim mitchell says:

    And so it continues:
    I’m don’t necessarily side with Labour. Nor necessarily Conservative. Nor Liberal. I’m anti-Nationalist who have a penchant for lying for power. Who employs the most deceitful of negative politics of blame, gripe, grievance and hate to germinate support from those who think they will so much better off “if only they separated from the UK”. That’s why they have so much support from the bowels of the uneducated and lowest incomes. Labour will return to power; not because of their policies but because a resounding NO in the referendum will send the Nationalists into disarray and infighting.
    A comment from one of JL’s fellow unionists in today’s Scotsman, well we did say it would get worse!

  74. annie says:

    Anyone else see the Ed Miliband show BBC News 6.pm – 6.10pm repeated in part BBC Scotland 6.30pm – 6.35 don’t worry if you missed it – it will be shown again 10.pm tonight.  They have no sense of shame at the bias they demonstrate.

  75. muttley79 says:

    @creigs1707repeal
     
     
    No doubt there will be some journalists in Scotland who support independence.  However, the editorial line will be firmly against it.  You just need to cite the case of Derek Bateman, who has recently retired from BBC Scotland, and is now writing a blog that has already received praise.  With the financial climate the way it is then it is understandable that journalists do not want to risk their jobs.    

  76. Edward says:

    KillieBoab
    I noticed an earlier clip, in which the Scottish Labour contingent were lined up , all excited to meet the leader or was that Fuhrer. As it was very reminiscent of the newsreel footage of a bunch of simpering Bavarian frauleins having their few seconds of the leaders time. Another analogy was of serfs waiting for the breadcrumbs of the top table, as they were not part of the main event, but some afterthought, the kind you get when you have embarrassing relations in a wedding line up

  77. Brian Powell says:

    Another extraordinay coincidence of quotes.
    When it was reported the other day that David Cameron would not debate with ALex Salmond, a Whitehall spokesman said it would never happen. the debate was, “Scotland against Salmond”. In a FM qusetion time in the lat couple of weeks I heard and saw Johann Lamont say the debate was, “Scotland against Salmond”, then again at the Party Conference, “It’s Scotland versus Salmond” !
    Looks like Whitehall is writing her scripts.

  78. Helpmaboab says:

    I regret to inform the readers that I am in the final stages of “Yes” infection. I will not last beyond September of next year.
    Happily, neither will the United Kingdom of Great Britain!

  79. patronsaintofcats says:

    killie.  I guess she knew the camera was on her

    Kodak Curran

  80. AnneDon says:

    twitter hashtag #spreadthevirus – we could put it on badges! 

  81. JLT says:

    Hmmmm…..
     
    Scottish Nationalism bad…
    British Nationalism good….
     
    I’m begging to God that the camera pans to her immediately when she finds out that the voting in the Referendum just passed 50.1% in favour of Yes. Watch it! I’ll record that moment for the moments when I feel down. It’ll sure as hell cheer me up each time. You betcha!

  82. Thepnr says:

    If you catch this virus then please spread it on. The recipients will appreciate it.

  83. mutterings says:

    I hate to be a spoilsport but it’s actually “Eine Nation” if you want to be grammatically correct.

  84. call me dave says:

    Kodak Curran!  (her nickname in parts of Glasgow)
    She also has a reputation for turning up for the opening of an envelope.
    Photo- opportunity pre planned –  a bit too obvious Margaret!
    Ed nearly brought a tear to my eye with his story, (laughing my head off) and the worst of it is, some will lap it up over their coffee in the cafe tomorrow.  
    I’ll have to explain about the reciprocal arrangements in EU re: Hospital treatment for travellers  
    ‘Oh right … well never knew that’ they’ll say!
    Pensions:
     
     Ms Sturgeon begins the task of outlining the initial plans after independence here:
    bbc.co.uk/…/…
     

  85. tartanfever says:

    Jim Mitchell @ 6.07pm
    Brilliant comment Jim – well said and thanks for posting that here.

  86. muttley79 says:

    Fraser Nelson really has something of the night about him.  I read his ‘article’, in which he praises Lamont for using the language of Hitler, although funnily enough he does not mention this rather important fact.  He is a raging British nationalist.

  87. Morag says:

    I hate to be a spoilsport but it’s actually “Eine Nation” if you want to be grammatically correct.
     
    The original was “Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Führer”, so I think the graphic can be excused, really.

    I’m uncomfortable with what can seem like demonising the German language and the German people, since Germany is an almost completely reformed character now and it’s a lovely language.  But what can you do?  Germany emerges from the darkness of “your actual fucking Hitler”, and seventy years later Britain heads right back in there.  Those who cannot learn from history are condemned to repeat it.

    And that applies to 1979 as well.

  88. Firestarter says:

    What is Johann Lamont actually FOR? What is its purpose? With any job, there is usually a set of criteria which any applicant must meet. One would think that (even puppet) ‘leader of a major political party’ would have been no different. With this in mind, the criteria would surely have included:
    Articulate public speaker
    Inspirational
    Motivated
    Quick-witted and intelligent
    Capable of a vision of a future for the party
    Skilled debater
    Ability to formulate and express policy direction
    Gravitas
    Ability to command respect of party members and general public
    Extensive media training
    etc ….. etc ……..
    They must have considered all of this, and yet came up with ………. Johann Lamont? How would YOU score her on the above checklist? Seriously, I just don’t get it … unless the interview panel was exclusively drawn from YES Scotland personnel.

  89. gerry parker says:

    Surely we can’t have a Member of The Scottish Parliament behaving like this – abusing a large and growing section of the Scottish people by likening them to a virus which must be eradicated.  How can we call this person to account when she resumes her place in Holyrood.  Will the Presiding Officer not have a duty to call her to account?

  90. Linda's back says:

    Miliband mentioned Britain 59 times in his speech is that more than Gordon brown’s speech prior to the last Westminster election?
    Miliband also aped Gordon Brown’s British jobs for British workers  and it seems One Nation  Labour don’t like foreigners like Scots  who as EU subjects are entitled to exactly the same health care as anyone in the UK.
     

  91. Arbroath 1320 says:

    The Courier has this at the beginning of their article.
     
    ‘Johann Lamont also described nationalism as “a virus . . . that never achieved anything” in a phrase that appeared to allude to the European 20th century fascist movement.’
     
    With Lamont making these fascistesque like statements would it be too far a stretch to suggest that she is copying the statements made by her father…….Adolf Hitler!
     
    Sorry Stu if I’ve overstepped the mark here but Lamont has really pushed all my buttons today with this s***e!

  92. Desimond says:

    The number of YES fans is worse than Johann first thought : 

    YES – Its AYE Contagious!

  93. muttley79 says:

    @Firestarter
     
    What is Lamont for? 
     
    Given the last few days (and years) I think she is there solely to fire as much venom and poison at the SNP, and Salmond in particular, as she can muster before the referendum (and this appears to be almost unlimited).  As SLAB’s Unionists have clearly given up on the Scottish Parliament, their tactic appears to be to try and make the people here hate the very institution they claimed to have delivered.  She is certainly for British nationalism as well.  As for Lamont’s claim to be a socialist that just deserves a 😀  

  94. JLT says:

    In my view, the Scottish electorate may not say anything against Johann as to what she has said, but at the same time, they are not stupid. Most definitely not!
    For us that come on this site, we look deeper into politics, and therefore can see when the truth is being twisted, or seriously debunked as a lie. There is nothing that the UK state can tell us, that we will honestly believe. At our most leniency, we treat whatever the UK state says, with suspicion or at most, utter contempt.
    For the average person in Scotland, who does not follow politics like we do, they are however, not that blind as the media would hope. Many people in Scotland, who may not be Nationalists, are seriously, truly turned off by Labour. They deplore what they hear and see; especially at First Minister’s questions. This is not just us Nationalists, with a few folk here and there. This is right across the Nation. Scottish Labour are deplored by more than half of Scotland.
    All the polls tell us that. The SNP wins a majority in the Parliament. Alex Salmond is the most popular leader in the entire UK. In contrast, Lamont and Co; they are treated with suspicion, derision and utter contempt.
    I don’t worry too much about what Johann, Margaret and Anas actually say. They are literally non-electable in the greater Scotland. Aye, they might win hands down in their own wee constituency, but they are nothing beyond those wee borders. They keep putting Scotland down, and they continually lie.
    The problem for Scottish Labour, and they seem to fail to realise this fact; the Scots are not stupid. They are much more aware than even we realise!
    As the facts slow rise to the surface, the likes of Johann and her ilk, are staring down the barrel of a gun. For her; to lose this referendum is her worst nightmare. Her place in history will be guaranteed, but in a truly horrible way. She will be remembered forever, as a rank rotten opposition leader, who practically chased folk to the ‘Yes’ camp.
    History remembers Hitler and his twisted ideology. So will it be with the Scottish Labour, when it comes to Scottish History and the re-evaluation of the period leading up to the referendum and its aftermath. If Scotland votes ‘Yes’, Scottish Labour will enter its darkest period ever, and they may never recover from it.

  95. Morag:
    I agree, it is a shame the peace loving German nation have to be tarred with this. Having lived there for a long time, I think Lamont would be pulled up on this type of hate speech in Germany. Unlike the UK media, which we all know are beyond reproach being part of the new master race, engerland!

  96. HeatherMcLean says:

    And they have the audacity to refer to Alex Salmond as a dictator… while paraphrasing quotations from Hitler??? Unbelievable! WAKE UP PEOPLE OF SCOTLAND!
    What dastardly plans have they up their sleeves for the Yes / SNP voters if we lose this referendum?? Quarantine all those infected by the ‘virus’ into special camps??
    It is becoming increasingly clear that the only option in Scotland is to vote YES!
     

  97. the journeyman says:

    I’ve felt for a while now that the bitter together team use the nationalist word in very discriminating contexts while pleading that they are no less lovers of Scotland because they support the union. How can they ever hope for unity if a No vote was to happen having discriminated in such unacceptable tones. Scotland must vote YES!

  98. For die says:

    This language, as well offending me, concerns me greatly. It demonstrates that Labour will do anything to protect their perceived entightlement to rule. Including creating such deep fissures in our society that it could take generations for them to heal.

  99. scottish_skier says:

    Is it me or has Lamont aged 10 years in the past 2.5 or so?

  100. Murray McCallum says:

    scottish_skier
    Is it me or has Lamont aged 10 years in the past 2.5 or so?
     
    You saying the embalming process has stopped working?

  101. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    To those of you who commented on the washed out UK flag up behind Ed “Wrong Brother” Milliband looking like St George’s Cross, I have to admit to saying the very same thing to my Mum. Is it just that the bulk of people watching this would  have been English, and it is to appeal to them?
     

  102. Morag says:

    Fraser Nelson really is in his own strange planet. Thinks JL’s speech was rather good.
    http://archive.is/ULnaK
     
    I was just reading the comments on that.  About 90% against Nelson’s assessment.

  103. Arbroath 1320 says:

    I’ve just had a wee ‘thinking outside the box’ moment here. I’m wondering if a lot of Don’t Knows are don’t knows because they actually fear a Labour government in a post independence Scotland. Could we actually be looking at a situation where we have loads of people wanting independence but are terrified of a return to the Labour or Labour/LibDem government in Holyrood.
     
    Everyone has seen what the Labour/LibDem government in Holyrood did from 1999 to 2007 and what the SNP government has achieved since coming to power in 2007. In my view it’s a bit like choosing between chalk and cheese.
     
    Whilst the Lab/LibDem governments may have achieved something for Scotland it wasn’t until the SNP came to power that things really started moving forward in my view. Never forget it was the Labour/LibDem government that RETURNED £1 Billion (if my memory serves me right)  to Westminster because they couldn’t think of anything to spend it on!
     
    I think once the Don’t Knows are convinced that they will still be able to vote for the SNP, should they desire to do so, then they may very well move over to YES.

  104. Jingly Jangly says:

    Stu, what about ordering up a couple of thousand “Im YES positive” badges with the
    money in your piggy bank, You will sell them off no problem, and make a good profit
    for future projects to boot.

  105. David Smith says:

    Well if they want to use the language and rhetoric of The Third Reich, the least we can do is make the referendum their Stalingrad.

  106. muttley79 says:

    @For die
     
     
    This language, as well offending me, concerns me greatly. It demonstrates that Labour will do anything to protect their perceived entightlement to rule. Including creating such deep fissures in our society that it could take generations for them to heal.
     
    Correct.  They are poisoning the well, and they do not give a fuck about the people of Scotland, or the effects of their rhetoric and the damage it does to the democratic process here.  They are looking more and more like political nihilists to me.
     
    @S_S
     
    Yes, Lamont has definitely looked different since the summer.  Not sure what it is though?

  107. Haggistrap says:

    Disgraceful comment by JL. We should all sign up to Scottish Labour and start posting.

  108. twenty14 says:

    Please,please some of our more IT literate Wingers do the Youtube Hitler speech which they have made cover loads of subject and do one with JL.
     
    They are extremely funny and go  – excuse the pun ” Viral “

  109. I am disgusted by this quote from a political leader in Scotland, She should be thoroughly ashamed but of course it is quite deliberate. Together with Curran’s attack on the devolved services – we can see where this is going.   I think the general tone of labour attacks are actually turning folk off the #bettertogether negativity, we still need I think Not to let them drag us down to their level.  Forcefully, but truthfully and with respect, we must get our points over. 

  110. Yesitis says:

    Scottish_skier
    Is it me or has Lamont aged 10 years in the past 2.5 or so?
     
    Aye. She looks terrible, eh. Gaunt, frail, gummy and gubbed.

  111. JLT says:

    Hi Arbroath 1320
     
    Could we actually be looking at a situation where we have loads of people wanting independence but are terrified of a return to the Labour or Labour/LibDem government in Holyrood.
     
    ————————
    To be honest, Arbroath, I doubt it!
     
    If they are unelectable now; they will be post-indy!
     
    And what I mean by that, is for the very simple reason that if we do go independent, then the Scottish Unionist parties will have to change their ways! To continue with such rhetoric will do them absolutely no favours.
    If they were to punt that continual mince to the electorate, then we; the electorate, will do the most simplest thing, and that is to continually vote in the SNP (or whatever they will become post-indy ie SDP – the Scottish Democratic Party).
    We would end up digging Alex Salmond out of his grave and continually making him First Minister if it meant keeping out a poisonous and bitter Labour.
     
    They have to change. It’s as simple as that.
     
    I would expect a period of serious soul-searching by all the Scottish Unionist Parties for around 10+ years post-indy. Once they see the machinations of life within an Indy-Scotland becoming more and more concrete, then they will change their ways so that it suits the needs of Scotland and the Scottish people.
    The likes of Lamont, Curran, Sarwar, Baillie will be dust in Scottish politics and history. They will be reminded as a warning to future Scottish Labour candidates, of what NOT to become. No one is going to remember Lamont fondly. No-one!
     
    As I said in a previous post. History will not smile kindly on Lamont and her fellow Labour colleagues.
     

  112. BeamMeUpScotty says:

    This soulless party whose sole (pardon the pun) purpose is to represent the interests of the British state in Scotland aided and abetted by the British establishment media.In these cirumstances,all that is required is a script reader whose utterings can then be broadcast to a pliant electorate.
    People are getting wise to the fact that they offer nada for Scotland’s future,unless we continue to accept English/British dominance of our politics and then,of course,the future will not be on our terms.

  113. Restlessnative says:

    A vile harpy of a woman,the very sight and sound of that odious boot sends me into a contemptuous rage,disgusting individual.On a lighter note “Yes Falkirk” had a wee stall at Falkirk college today.As an,ahem,mature student it was good to see so many of the younger students round the Yes stall whilst Billy No Mates and Bitter Together seemed that wee bit forlorn,wee shame so it wasn’t.

  114. The_Duke says:

    Aye. She looks terrible, eh. Gaunt, frail, gummy and gubbed.
     
    Johann Lamont always has that expression on her face……..and to paraphrase David Feherty (golf commentator)
    She looks like she’s licking her own urine off a nettle!

  115. Cath says:

    “If Scotland votes ‘Yes’, Scottish Labour will enter its darkest period ever, and they may never recover from it.
     
    I actually disagree with this, and suspect it’s the other way around. If there’s a NO, we will be stuck with the arrogant, crowing faces of those like Mags Curran, Lamont etc who will still be wanting to “eradicate the virus”, still have no ideas at all for Scotland or the UK and simply want power at all costs. But what will they have won, really? They’ll be despised utterly by half the Scottish population, and that figure will grow among the rest of Scotland who wanted more powers as they see powers likely taken away, and Scotland punished.
     
    I can see Labour being out of Holyrood and also out of Westminster as a result of a huge loss of votes in Scotland to the SNP if it’s a No.
     
    By contrast, a Yes will see the short, sharp shock of the unionists disappearing and a new Scottish Labour (and by implication a new English Labour) appearing. This would entirely re-invogorate the party both sides of the border. I don’t think the Scottish electorate is actually “anti-Labour” or unforgiving to them at all. What we mostly want is a return to a real, Scottish Labour that this crew has moved so distant from. A real, independent Scottish Labour won’t be having to follow Westminster and contort itself into knots over putting unionism before everything else.
     
    It’s sad, and we have this nasty period because they’re having to be dragged kicking and screaming towards something that is common sense, and they’ve known for fucking 150 years it’s common sense! Home rule was a Labour policy when it was first formed ffs, and federalism is common elsewhere. The London gravy train has a real hold on these people – once that’s broken, the rest of us can move forward with the parties we want, and that will certainly include some kind of Labour, but not the ones that are forefront right now. Not if it’s a Yes.

  116. Davy says:

    Sadly I too must report I am in the final stages of the YES infection, specialists have only given me around a year to go. Repeated bouts of negativity specially manufactured by ‘better together’ Ltd have ceased to reduce my positive outlook, and the personel comments, lies and scare stories of the highly renowned Darling, Baillie, Lamont and Sarwar have no-longer the desired effect of making me feel too wee, too stupid, too poor.
     
    I am sure that further attempts will be made over the coming year to release me from this positive virus, with ‘better together’ scare stories more fabulous than the fables of ancient Greece, but I know deep down in my heart they have absolutely no chance of working.
     
    So it is with a light and cheery heart I will go canvassing with my local YES campaign on Thursday evening, instead of sitting at home crying with despair at the sheer uselessness of being a union-scot. 

    Pity me not, for I am doing what I love.
     
    SAOR ALBA, VOTE YES, VOTE SCOTLAND.
         

  117. Thepnr says:

    @Cath
     
    Brilliant, I totally agree. There will be a “New Labour” in Scotland but it will be more like the original Labour. One can only hope.

  118. Jeannie says:

    I don’t think this is the usual Labour stupidity – I think it’s more part of a deliberate plan:
     
    First you insist the First Minister of Scotland is a dictator.  Then you imply that Scottish Nationalism is simply Fascism – and by extension the First Minister is a Fascist Dictator.  Next, you falsely claim that the government he leads has made things far worse for the electorate.
     
    What do you do with a fascist dictator whose people are suffering under his rule?  Well, you do what they did in 1939 and you do what they did with Saddam Hussein – that way there’s a clear reason why Labour the Tories and Lib Dems HAVE to band together – to protect the suffering people – to protect Scotland from Salmond. Nobody can then criticise you for working with the Tories even though you claim to have different policies.  You can differ on policies but stand together against evil.
     
    Now set this scenario within the context of next year’s commemoration of World War 1 where we “stood together, side by side to defeat the forces of evil”.  We must band together to protect the innocent against evil dictators – in other words, they’re currently in the process of creating an enemy to unite against – by marginalising and demonising Alex Salmond and the SNP.  That way, they not only hope to win the referendum, but they’ve demonised nationalism so much nobody will look at it again for a very long time.
     
    They come out of it as saviours, the good guys.   Normal service is resumed.  The status quo is retained. 
     
    At least, I think that’s the plan. 
     
     

  119. JLT says:

    Cath,
    I agree with you if it’s a ‘No’. Lamont will be just a mere puppet in Scottish politics for London Labour.
     
    But that’s not what I said…
     
    I said, ‘If Scotland votes ‘Yes’, then Scottish Labour will enter its darkest period ever, and they may never recover from it.’
    What they become after …well, that is up to them.
     

  120. Bill C says:

    According to my wife Lamont has had a facelift and she is always right! I replied if that is true she should sue the surgeon!

  121. G H Graham says:

    She might have white hair but she’s still a glaikit mouthpiece.
    Not a hint of Aryan on her anywhere.
    Except the bit on her noggin that came out a bottle.

  122. JLT says:

    Cath,
    I posted slightly further on from the one that you commented on. If you read that, you get a better sense of what I meant about the demise of Labour.
    As I stated in that comment, the Scottish Unionist parties will have to adapt post-indy. If they don’t, then they will never get elected. Simple as that!

  123. Murray McCallum says:

    Jeannie
    If New Labour are planning something along those lines then they have not got a very good handle on history. If we stick with the Nazi theme (a) they never won a parliamentary election and (b) they sought to destroy the German Parliament. Basically, they were in the same position New Labour currently are in Scotland.
     
    The history buffs reading this will no doubt question the detail.

  124. EdinScot says:

    With this her latest twisted and bitter little outburst usurping her diablolical ‘something for nothing’ jibe, one wonders if the Unionists are trying to provoke people in Scotland for a reaction.  It really is language of the extreme right and very ugly.  I suppose it kind of sums up her useless self serving troughing party.  Bankrupt of policies and ideas, nothing left to offer positively for Scotland.  I guess what we are witnessing is the death throes of the British Labour party in Scotland in full technicolour.  The people are rejecting her toxic party in ever bigger numbers the nearer we get to our destination of independence and even a hundred baths in dettol wouldnt get the stains removed from the Lamont brand.  She is damaged goods and whats more, i think she knows it.  Lets react by voting YES next year and confine her to the dustbin of history where she belongs.

  125. Morag says:

    Someone said that before, and I had a look at some pictures.  Facelift scars are in front of the ears, and however cleverly the surgeon tries to hide them, they take time to fade.  You often see women with their hair arranged to cover their ears, and often with big round earrings on too.  That’s a dead giveaway a lot of the time.
     
    Johann has her hair very short and tucked behind her ears.  Her earrings are quite small.  It’s possible to get a damn good look at the place where a facelift scar would be, and there’s no sign of it.  It wouldn’t be possible to conceal something like that completely with makeup so soon after surgery – not to fool a TV camera close-up.
     
    RevStu tweeted that she had changed her hairstyle and it looked “quite nice”, for which he was lambasted as a sexist cad.  It did look quite nice in the photo he linked to, but I think it must have grown out.

  126. Ruby Tuesday says:

    Your ‘Ein Nation’ photo inspired me to open up Photoshop.  
    I’ve been having fun.  Finger crossed this will work. 
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/5650709/Wallace_and_Johann.jpg

  127. JLT says:

    Cath,
    Apologies, I tried to edit my previous post, but was too late. You and I, are actually singing from the same hymn sheet really.
    If you look at my post, where I commented on a query by Arbroath 1320, you will see what I mean about the demise of Labour. If they don’t change, they’re finished. In that 2nd post, you will see that I talk about Labour changing their ways.
    This is what I expect, just as you do.
     
    Hope this helps. Cheers again.

  128. Albalha says:

    @annie
    Re the Ed Milliband show on the BBC between 6 and 7, doubt they’ll terribly pleased. Robert Peston basically said the lights will go out with the energy price freeze plans and we were shown images from the 1970s power cuts. The BBC Scotland part included, I’d say, a cursory 90 second report. It was all about, as usual, crime, animals and fitba.
     

  129. tartanfever says:

    Jeannie, I enjoyed your post, it’s good to think out loud about what the unionist plan is.
     
    Certainly you are absolutely correct, the demonisation of Salmond and the SNP is central to their goal. What would be an added bonus is if the supporters of independence gave them some ammo to use in their ridiculous game plan.
     
    So, while I’m completely at ease with everything everyone has said, including myself – I also think that part of the plan is to try and rile the independence support into getting very angry.
     
    We’re already labelled as the ‘nutty cybernats’, I for one will be watching  my P’s and Q’s when posting on various sites as not to give unionists a chance to use my words against the independence cause – Lord knows they’ve got hee-haw to offer the people of Scotland, so they’ll only ramp up the nasty rhetoric.
    I’m going to employ the old ‘count to 10’ before posting safety net.

  130. farrochie says:

    Both Andrew Neil and STV News referred to Miliband’s speech today as an appeal to British Nationalism. Wonder if Lamont will comment?
     
     

  131. Jingly Jangly says:

    Jeannie says:
    Spot on analysis, this is good, it means that they are very very desperate
    they might have got away with this before the Internet but no longer.
    Today I spoke to a committed No labour to the core with a hatred of the SNP I explained it was not about the SNP it was about the people of Scotland getting the Government they Vote for, She said that she was not interested in talk of Scotland being better off as that only concerned people with money. When I explained to her about the Cuts the Health Service would see going forward as the English Health Service goes further down the road of privatisation she changed her tune, I think with a little more work she will be on our side.
    We need to get across to people what will happen if we stay in the Union..
     

  132. Albalha says:

    The fuel freeze ‘policy’ is a bribe, nothing more. That’s all Labour can offer. Bankrupt party with an unelectable leader. If they were serious they would be talking about taking energy back into state ownership.
    Voters are not that stupid. On Brighton beach Ed was seen, by a couple of the people Crick voxed, as a cross between Wallace and Gromit.
     

  133. southernscot says:

    I believe Johann Lamont spent the summer in Malawi visiting her daughter. I know GDC has links to Malawi.

  134. Tamson says:

    The thing about “One Nation” that is so truly appalling is its dangerous vacuosity. Variations of it have been used by decent folk like Mandela,  but in general through history, the people using it have been the bad guys. Stalin and Pol Pot were not averse to variations on the phrase, and so of course was Adolf. It is the name of the right-wing nationalist/racist party founded in Australia by Pauline Hanson. Republican US Presidents are keen to evoke the “One Nation, Under God” bit of their declaration of independence.
     
    It is a nasty turn of phrase, usually turned to by nasty people.

  135. Albalha says:

    @Ruby Tuesday
    Seems you and the chaps on Brighton beach agree, nice graphic!

  136. Andy McIntyre says:

    While the use of Hitlerian rhetoric is to be deplored and condemned (my own preference involves a lot of expletives), I think we’ve all picked up on something SLAB have not even realised was there. To be honest I don’t think Lamentable and her party are really thinking that deeply.
    I think the language used is simply borne from the same dark place, namely out of a deep seated hatred in this case of the SNP. Anything that smashes the threat to the leadership of SLAB’s divine right to rule in Scotland and by extension the threat to the non-existant need for Scottish MP’s to give Labour a government down south is a fair tool as far as Labour are concerned.
    As has been noted, “red” Ed will say and do anything that will give him power and sadly Lamentable in her own ill-conceived way is doing the same for both her own desire for power but also to protect her master’s desire for power at Westminster. And that includes the comments on power prices, let’s keep the plebs on side while not scaring our friends i the City too much.
     

  137. Roger Terrett says:

    She’s definitely had a makeover, skin, makeup, hair, clothes; guess that’s why she was away for so long over summer, big job. Still looks like the wee bauchle she is, waste of money, doll.

  138. chalks says:

    Sadly, no one really know’s who she is.
    Jimmy Krankie?
    In fact, the SNP should get ahold of Jimmy Krankie, see if he/she is a yes supporter and wrap a saltire around him with a big yes placard.
    What she is trying to do is pull back the Labour supporters that are in favour of independence.  By calling anyone who wants indy a ‘nationalist’ she is trying to scare them back into their box.  ‘Don’t get ideas above your station’
    You know the rest, TP,TS,TW.  Shall we just call it the 3 T’s?
    She is scared though and with good reason.
    Johann has a virus, it’s called the Scottish Cringe. 

  139. Semus says:

    As a virus carrier I have just sketched out a variation on the saltire in a quasi Star of David not unlike two Scotrail carriages . I could prepare this and we could have them sewn on to identify ourselves and make the streets safe for such gentlemen and ladies of the labour party. Have you seen them?In parliament they look like a butcher’s windae

  140. heraldnomore says:

    Clearly it’s all just a cunning stunt.
     
    And I see there’s fine footage of the march over at Yes Scotland.  So far I’ve only been able to view the opening shot at the head of the column, long before the band began to play (due to appalling broadband speeds) but it’s a fine figure, one tht I recognise and know well.  And I know there to be a wings badge on the left sleeve……

  141. Bill C says:

    I was having a laugh Morag, but I think we should all be concerned that the leader of the Opposition in the Scottish Parliament chooses to describe her opponents in the language of Hitler. I really think that more needs to be made of this. It is deeply offensive to describe the nationalist movement within Scotland and the 25,000 plus members of the SNP in these terms.  This is the politics of the sewer and cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

  142. chalks says:

    Ah, but does it go unchallenged?
    Look who got a majority, look who will get a majority again…..people show their feelings at the elections….It hasn’t dawned on Labour, I don’t know if it ever will to be honest.
    Which means they’ll be behind the greens in 2016 in the indy election….which is great, cos the greens are brilliant

  143. CameronB says:

    I posted this extract from the Annual Review of Microbiology Vol. 67 on the previous thread, but I think it fits here as well. How short sighted!

    “Are viruses more biologically successful than cellular life? Here we examine many ways of gauging biological success, including numerical abundance, environmental tolerance, type biodiversity, reproductive potential, and widespread impact on other organisms. We especially focus on successful ability to evolutionarily adapt in the face of environmental change. Viruses are often challenged by dynamic environments, such as host immune function and evolved resistance as well as abiotic fluctuations in temperature, moisture, and other stressors that reduce virion stability. Despite these challenges, our experimental evolution studies show that viruses can often readily adapt, and novel virus emergence in humans and other hosts is increasingly problematic. We additionally consider whether viruses are advantaged in evolvability—the capacity to evolve—and in avoidance of extinction. On the basis of these different ways of gauging biological success, we conclude that viruses are the most successful inhabitants of the biosphere.”

    On the Biological Success of Viruses
    Annual Review of Microbiology
    Vol. 67: 519-541
    http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev-micro-092412-155633

  144. @heraldnomore

    Please be careful what two words you put together as us dislexics get confused very easily.

  145. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Thanks for your answer JLT. Unfortunately I missed a bit out of my post that you referred to. When I mentioned about the Don’t Knows fearing the return of Labour or Labour/LibDems to power I forgot to add due to their, the D.K’s, impression that there would no longer be an SNP party to vote for, namely the only choices in a post independence Scotland would be Labour, Tory or LibDem.
     
    I accept your points though and think you’re more likely to right than me and my ‘outside the box’ thinking. Time for a wee lie down in the ‘Darkened room’ I think. :D:

  146. twenty14 says:

    Just picked up some roadkill, squished oot the blood and smeared an X on the front door as I didn’t have any YES stickers for the windae – same thing according to JL

  147. muttley79 says:

    The problem with this almost constant demonisation of the SNP, and Salmond in particular, is that to keep working there has to be at least a element of truth to it.  What is the worst Salmond has ever done to an opponent?  Beaten them badly in a debate, called them a name, or landed them with a stinging jibe?  In the grand scheme of things it is virtually nothing.  Same with the SNP.  What have they done to deserve being demonised?  The problem for the unionists in Scotland is that this demonisation is on extremely shaky ground to put it mildly.  It does not bear the slightest scrutiny from an historical point of view, or from current political realities either.  In other words it just looks like completely irrational and hysterical behaviour from SLAB in particular.   

  148. heraldnomore says:

    I was indeed extremely careful.  Sometimes it’s hard to type when your mind’s on a different thought.  But Imanaged it.  She fair gie’s you the dry boak, and ultimatly will be proved to be an asset.  In fact she might just be Y.E.S. Positive, subliminally at least.

  149. david says:

    how could anyone possibly tell if lamont has had cosmetic surgery. it would be impossible, she is too ugly for surgery to make any difference, the reason she is so ugly is she physically resembles her inner self which is extremely ugly and hateful and she has now taken me to her levels as i hate her intensely, i dont want to hate her but i do hate her

  150. Morag says:

    I was having a laugh Morag, but I think we should all be concerned that the leader of the Opposition in the Scottish Parliament chooses to describe her opponents in the language of Hitler.
     
    Entirely agree, Bill.  I wasn’t criticising the metaphor, rather lamenting the occasion and the necessity for it.

  151. Craig M says:

    The comments by Lamont are outrageous and are intended to offend. We can expect more of this over the coming months. They are spoiling tactics, designed to win. But has anyone considered what will happen if, in the run up to September 2014, the polls indicate that this ploy isn’t working and they will not win? Having shown their extremist hand, what is to stop Labour and their Westminster bosses going beyond words? They are already showing they are in desperate states. Desperation may breed more flawed thinking. I believe that Lamont and her puppet masters will go to any lengths. The importance of their gaining and retaining power in the UK context should not be played down. This language from Lamont is a warning shot. They will not allow the Union, their Union, their meal ticket, to go quietly. Normal democratic language has been binned. What next? The potential is frightening. Cool heads are now required by those who want change. Watch as the boundaries are pushed and then breached by Labour and their apologists.  

  152. Bill C says:

    Just spotted a cracker on Facebook, it’s in the form of a badge and it reads “I’m a YES carrier”. I would provide a link or a download but my IT skills don’t match my gob. Any IT wizards out there like to give it a go. It’s well worth a look and I want one!

  153. Bill C says:

    @Morag – Couldn’t agree more.

  154. Morag says:

    She’s definitely had a makeover, skin, makeup, hair, clothes; guess that’s why she was away for so long over summer, big job. Still looks like the wee bauchle she is, waste of money, doll.
     
    how could anyone possibly tell if lamont has had cosmetic surgery. it would be impossible, she is too ugly for surgery to make any difference
     
    You two are an absolute disgrace.  This isn’t about Johann’s appearance, it’s about her filthy obnoxious language and policies.  And let’s face it, Alex is no oil painting either.
     
    I don’t normally come the feminist, in fact I usually say that like it’s a dirty word, but have you any idea how misogynistic that is – the level of insult to any woman who has ever tried to improve her appearance to make herself more acceptable in a world where a woman’s appearance can make or break her?  The hurt that sort of attitude can cause to any woman who has contemplated going through major surgery to “stay young and beautiful, if you want to be loved”?
     
    I’m disgusted with the pair of you.

  155. david says:

    she called me a virus

  156. The Rough Bounds says:

    I suppose she calls us a virus because we get right up her nose.
    As for her having had a ‘make-over’ the words, ”you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear” spring to mind.
    Margaret Curran? Whew! The Greeks were right when they said ‘the gods that you worship show up in your face’.
     
    Relax folks; just remember that Curran and Lamont is the best that they have. Think about it. They are the best that they have.
     
    No worries.

  157. Morag says:

    she called me a virus

    Fair point.

  158. alexicon says:

    Just think? She’s allowed to call me a “virus” and I’m not allowed to call her a ("Tractor" - Ed).

  159. david says:

    i understand your point but i gotta say she deserves evrything that is thrown at her

  160. The Rough Bounds says:

    Oh yeah! AND they use filthy and obnoxious language.

  161. john king says:

    Shes trying to drive a wedge between the SNP and independence supporters by vilifying the SNP and Alex Salmond,
    she’ll then show her (compassion ha ha ) for the poor supporters by telling everyone were more to be pitied than scorned,
    and attempt to build a firewall between us and Salmond, her trouble is that she BELIEVES  that she does hold sway over the people of Scotland and that Salmond is despised by everyone because that’s how she perceives him  ,
    she will wake up one day soon and find its not Salmond the people despise but her!  

  162. Morag says:

    Just think? She’s allowed to call me a “virus” and I’m not allowed to call her a ("Tractor" - Ed).
     
    No, because we’re better than them.  (Though looking at some of this thread I have some doubts….)  And because there is simply no point in handing ammunition to the pro-union journalists who just love another quote from a “vile cybernat”.

  163. twenty14 says:

    Craig M says:
    24 September, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    The comments by Lamont are outrageous ………..
    My line of thinking – I think they are getting shocking news re: the polls and we have only started to see the sharp teeth of the beast , they will stoop to whatever level it takes to hold on to their precious union but if it could also have the totally opposite effect with one thing or other being the final straw and voters turning to YES en masse

  164. Alan MacD says:

    The Independence Virus.
    Symptoms may include:
    1, An adversion to bullshit.
    2, Self respect.
    3, A profound feeling of enlightenment.
     
    Are there any political doctors who may know any more symptoms? ( bit of fun instead of everybody talking about feckin Hitler)

  165. david says:

    non dependant

  166. Morag says:

    Just spotted a cracker on Facebook, it’s in the form of a badge and it reads “I’m a YES carrier”.
     
    I still like “I’m Y.E.S. positive” with or without “and I’m contagious”.

  167. macdoc says:

    Your Margaret Curran’s and Johann Lamont’s of this world are to put it bluntly just pretty thick. They lack the cognitive function to think critically and have been exploited due to their lack of intellect. They have been brainwashed to hate with a passion their enemies (Like the more unpleasant fans of Rangers and Celtic, The hatred of blacks by the klu Klux klan etc). They couldn’t articulate why they hate “Scottish Nationalists” so much but its an irrational hatred for which they have absolutely no argument. Both are too dense to understand that battling for a NO vote is every bit as nationalistic as fighting for a YES just British instead of Scottish. 
    Unfortunately its pretty prevalent amongst many of the unionist (British nationalist persuasion). How often have we heard Scotland being compared to megalomaniac dictators, calling us Natzis. Its anger in that they cannot articulate a positive case for the union therefore their only weapon is to obfuscate and confuse voters with lies, smears and fears. Their is unfortunately a fairly large percentage of voters in Scotland who actually believe this nonsense. So wrapped up in British nationalism they are unable to comprehend that Scotland is a nation, not a mere region of Britain like Yorkshire. Brainwashed doesn’t even begin to describe this group of individuals. They are closed off to all argument and usually become extremely agressive and abusive if you dare challenge their reasoning. This is because they know their case cannot be articulated. Its a common reaction to knowing you are getting destroyed in an argument but unable to accept this. 
     

  168. scottish_skier says:

    This isn’t about Johann’s appearance.
     
    Note my original comment concerning Johann apparently ageing rapidly – which may have sparked comments on her appearance – was related to the potential effect of stress on someone.
     
    Johann lamont appears consumed with hatred for the SNP and independence. She is unable to write her own speeches, unable to debate, makes a complete fool out of herself regularly on national TV and finds herself as a floor wipe once a week at FMQs. She is completely out of her depth. I can imagine that must take a toll on her. She’s only human after all. People do ‘age’ due to continuous stress.
     
    I always figured she’s lined up for Ian Davidson’s MP seat (traditionally one of the safest in Scotland for Labour, hence Ian Davidson being given it) when he gets a Lordship, and that’s what she’s going through this for. It’s now slipping away day by day but she has to keep going through the same humiliation again and again.

  169. Morag says:

    I suppose she calls us a virus because we get right up her nose.
     
    Fantastic one!

  170. call me dave says:

     
    david V Morag
    Fifteen all! 
    But I think Morag has point play the ball not the man!
    Oh….Now I’ve done it.
    The stakes are the highest ever for the unionists, after independence who will they turn on then to patronise?
    Mind you I can’t see Lamont and Curran or Darling  for that matter saving the Union.
    They will self destruct in time, remember they are between a Jock and a hard place.

  171. kininvie says:

    Don’t get mad, get even. And do it with mockery. Get onto Twitter, search #spreadthevirus and join the folk who are happily putting up Twibbons saying I’m a YES carrier, announcing their symptoms, telling us how many they have infected. It’s much more fun than getting angry in a corner…
     
     

  172. Morag says:

    Note my original comment concerning Johann apparently ageing rapidly – which may have sparked comments on her appearance – was related to the potential effect of stress on someone.
     
    Yes, I got that.  I wasn’t criticising that observation.  I think you have a very valid point there.
     
    I remember noticing Tony Blair getting increasingly lined and haggard as the months and years went by, surely way too fast for someone his age.  Getting into illegal wars will do that to a guy.  But in his case, it only came out “distinguished”.
     
    I think the amount of bitterness Johann is harbouring can’t help but have an effect on her appearance.  It’s not good for anyone.

  173. david says:

    i dont think there is anyone more disliked than lamont

  174. Morag says:

    Shes trying to drive a wedge between the SNP and independence supporters by vilifying the SNP and Alex Salmond,
     
    Not quite.  She’s trying to demonise the SNP, Alex Salmond and independence supporters in a desperate attempt to prevent don’t knows and soft No voters from being attracted to the position they occupy.

  175. Boorach says:

    it’s fine having a rant on here and probably does a lot for our blood pressure but let’s all try to harness the anger such statements inspire in us and turn it back on the perpetrators.
     
    We’re all reasonably computer literate and the majority of us will have a printer attached to the laptop. USE THEM.
     
    Each time some numpty from the No side makes a ludicrous statement  associate it with whatever is out there (Hitler’s comment in this case) and produce a little hand-out. Put our opponents on the back foot throw their bile back in their faces.
     
    while we are about it don’t forget the Simon Heffer piece in the mail last week. Download it… it’s 7 pages worth but is the equivelant of capturing the enemy’s armoury.
     
    Store all their vitriol and use it against them.

  176. david says:

    im about ranted out

  177. Eddie says:

    Expect this nonsense to get worse as we get closer to the referendum.  There is no low they won’t stoop to in order to attempt to convince the Scottish populace that clinging to England’s apron strings is as mush as we can aspire to.  Traitors all.  Well, she has inferred I’m a virus so sod her.

  178. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Muttley 79
    I agree. People judge Salmond and the SNP on their actions in Government. Scrapping prescription charges and tuition fees, keeping the NHS in public hands, retaining free care for the elderly, freezing community charge, encouraging immigration to extend the tax take etc are hardly the actions of uncaring political Nazis.
    I think they are completely shocked at the continuing popularity of the SNP in government. This has been achieved due to the  SNP’s competency and Labour’s ineptness. It’s a bit like a football team being hammered, and the question asked is were the winners brilliant. Lamont is like a player manager who tells the press the only reason is because the other side are a bunch of cheating bastards! 

  179. david says:

    maybe the yes people can start attacking too, im getting fed up feeling im on the defensive all the time, whats wrong with attacking their attack dogs ?

  180. alexicon says:

    Hi Morag.
     
    Regarding the media. That’s exactly my point.
    Sorry I’m one of those who call a spade a spade.

  181. Bill C says:

    @kininvie -. That’s it in a nutshell. Any idea how I get a YES carrier twibbon?

  182. john king says:

    jeannie says
    I don’t think this is the usual Labour stupidity – I think it’s more part of a deliberate plan:”
    precisely what I thought but better put than my post 

  183. K8ie says:

    This photo of Johann was taken in 2005. Not sure about the bubble comment though.

  184. Jeannie says:

    @Morag
     
    She’s trying to demonise the SNP, Alex Salmond and independence supporters in a desperate attempt to prevent don’t knows and soft No voters from being attracted to the position they occupy.  
     
    Absolutely.

  185. david says:

    she is failing miserably in that case. she is making people angry tho

  186. CameronB says:

    Yes, Lamont has definitely looked different since the summer.  Not sure what it is though?
    Tapeworm infection?

  187. As an aside, I found this tucked away in Michael White’s column on Labour conference in the Guardian today – but  what is a ‘Falkland’s war in reverse’?
    Lord Charlie Falconer, Tony Blair’s Scots chum, predicts a “devastating effect on England” if Scotland votes for independence next year despite the no vote’s 20% lead. “It hasn’t occurred to the English what effect it will have on the English psyche” – not to mention its post-UK international status. A Falklands war in reverse, he warned a fringe meeting.

  188. Jingly Jangly says:

    CameronB says:
    24 September, 2013 at 9:53 pm

    Yes, Lamont has definitely looked different since the summer.  Not sure what it is though?
    Tapeworm infection?
     
    Maybe she has a virus!!!!

  189. Morag says:

    Off topic, but anyone who was fascinated by the wee quadricopter carrying the camera on Saturday should watch this.
     
    http://www.ted.com/talks/raffaello_d_andrea_the_astounding_athletic_power_of_quadcopters.html

  190. kininvie says:

    @Bill C
    If you search on #spread the virus, there are links which take you to the Twibbon app for Twitter. You have to consent to allow Twibbon to access yr a/c (harmless as far as I know – but it will telll you what it can and can’t do to you!) then hey presto, the Twibbon is yours (I hope)
     
    -The virus meme is spreading. Coupla MSPs claiming infection now, and Unionists beginning to get in a froth!

  191. Morag says:

    maybe the yes people can start attacking too, im getting fed up feeling im on the defensive all the time, whats wrong with attacking their attack dogs ?
     
    What is wrong is this.

    In a political fight, the outcomes tend to go in a particular way depending on the negativity or positivity of the campaigns.  If both are positive, the more positive side will win.  If one is positive and one is negative, the positive side will win.  If both are negative, the more negative side will win.

    You pick your position at the start.  If you go for negative, you can only win if you lure your opponent into being negative too, and then staying more negative than they are.  Our side has chosen to be positive.  We will win if we stay positive.  The minute we morph into a negative campaign, we’ll lose – unless we can actually go more negative than Bitter Together, and I have to say I doubt if that’s possible.  And who would want to go there anyway?

    If we are perceived as negative, even just a little bit negative, there’s a very real danger we get hammered.

  192. Ananurhing says:

    If we’re a virus then from what I saw on Saturday we’re a particularly virulent one.
    Q. What’s the difference between a nasty virus, and a Scottish Labour leader?
    A. It’s easy to get rid of a Scottish Labour leader.

  193. JLT says:

    The Herald …tonight. Un-f*****-beliveable
    A quick interview from John Barrowman.
     
    http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/referendum-news/barrowman-speaks-out-against-yes-vote.22235316
     
    Seriously, it almost reads like what Susan Boyle (allegedly (aye,right!)) said a couple of months back. Seriously …do the folk at this paper really believe that we are that thick to believe this pish?
     
    As quoted from The Herald (and spoken by one Mr Barrowman)
    “What if something goes wrong? Just look at the recent banking crises, for example. What if, after independence, Scots banks suffered. What then?
    “And although it may sound a little more fanciful, what if there’s an attack on Scottish shores and oil fields are threatened? Who could Scotland call upon to defend the country?”
     
    ‘An attack on the Scottish shores and oil fields’
    ‘Who could Scotland call upon to defend the country?”
     
    Seriously Herald ….WTF! Who is writing this utter pish? A bloody 10 year old!

  194. Quick the suns oot says:

    Ive just emailed JoLa at the Scottish parliament address, told her what I think and asked her to meet with me to discuss. I’m not in her constituency but we’ll see what she says.

  195. Bill C says:

    @kininvie – Brilliant thanks.

  196. scottish_skier says:

    We will win if we stay positive.
     
    Yes. Patience for a little longer is required. Yes has been slowly again gaining since the No peak in 2012 driven by project fear.
     
    November, however, is when things will change big style.

  197. kininvie says:

    Alistair Livingston:
    I think he means that the sense of triumph and pride which followed the Falklands will be replaced by opposite, negative feelings.
     
    It’s a wise perception. It’s a dangerous game the UK govt’s playing in pretending it’s not going to happen, because if and when it does, the English are going to be left in a very difficult psychological state – overnight. They are not being given any chance to think about what it’s going to mean for them, or about how they might adjust. All kinds of comfortable assumptions are going to be swept away…

  198. CameronB says:

    Re. Jeanie’s comment on patriotic collaboration of political parties in a stand against Fascism. I’m not sure if this is what lead the Fabian Society to get pally with Alfred Milner, 1st Viscount Milner and begin collaborating with Milner’s Kindergarten.

  199. Ron Burgundy says:

    Boorach says:

    Each time some numpty from the No side makes a ludicrous statement  associate it with whatever is out there (Hitler’s comment in this case) and produce a little hand-out. Put our opponents on the back foot throw their bile back in their faces.
     
    while we are about it don’t forget the Simon Heffer piece in the mail last week. Download it… it’s 7 pages worth but is the equivelant of capturing the enemy’s armoury.
     
    Store all their vitriol and use it against them
    I totally agree Boorach selective extracts from the Heffer piece and items from the likes of Lamont’s need to be printed off in a user friendly leaflet form by Yes Scotland to show the undecideded how Unionists think of them – much milage to be gained here. It is not going negative it is merely using ammunition they have very graciously given us to use against them.
    Now get on with that job Blair

  200. JLT says:

    What is it with the media trying to portray Susan Boyle and John Barrowman in such a way? In no way do I believe that Susan Boyle said those things about having doubts about Independence, and in the case of Mr Barrowman, I refuse to believe this too.
    Once you read the posting on The Herald website, it just doesn’t sound right! Sounds very odd.

  201. Macart says:

    As if we didn’t know this already, Labour and in particular the north British branch, have officially lost all sense of reason.

  202. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Bill C says:

    Just spotted a cracker on Facebook, it’s in the form of a badge and it reads “I’m a YES carrier”. I would provide a link or a download but my IT skills don’t match my gob. Any IT wizards out there like to give it a go. It’s well worth a look and I want one!
     
    I don’t do Facebook but do have a Twitter account so how about this Bill?
     
    www.twitter.com/AngusMacNeilMP/status/382607826310287361/photo/1

  203. Ruby Tuesday says:

    I don’t get upset by anything Johann Lamont says and that is probably because I almost never listen to her.   I occasionally watch FMQ but I always keep my finger on the FF button when she is talking.     I don’t believe that Johann Lamont, Margaret Curran, Anas Sarwar, Jackie Baillie, Ian Davidson could persuade any intelligent person to do anything other than not to vote for them.

    I never watch TV so perhaps I’m not seeing as much of these people as others.   I used to watch Newsnight on the i-player but now I don’t bother.   I see no reason to get myself wound up by idiots. 

    Perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone to image Johann Lamont naked whenever she makes a speech.   Personally I just imagine her now with a big purple bow in her hair, Yes buttons on her little jackette and a finger puppet stuck on her pointy finger. 
     
     

  204. Silverytay says:

    I have a confession to make , I have the YES virus and to make matters worse I have infected my oldest son and at least three other people .
    I don’t know how I can live with myself for inflicting this virus on four innocent people .
    To make matters worse I now think that this virus can be transferred to people through watching t.v and listening to the radio .
    My wife is now showing symptoms of having this virus after listening to part of Nicola’s sermon on the mount on smooth radio .

  205. Ruby Tuesday says:

    Bill C
     
    Yes positive!  I like that.  That is very witty. 
    When it comes to a sense of humour the YES side win hands down.   I still laugh when I think of the 500 questions.

  206. Arbroath 1320 says:

    I am seriously concerned.
     
    My doctor gave me my results today and informed me in an extremely solemn manner that I had indeed contracted the YES virus. What was very worrying was that he told me that the particular strain of the virus I have is incurable. Not only is it incurable but it is also the most viral. 😆

  207. muttley79 says:

    @S_S
     
    How will things change big style in November?  Are you talking about the White Paper?

  208. Seasick Dave says:

    Ms Lamont could have told us before now about this virus.
     
    I’ve been hinging about dodgy Yes positive folk and now I’ve got it and worry that I may have passed it on to my wife.
     
    She’s English, though, so it may not have crossed species.
     
    xx Fingers crossed xx

  209. Linda's back says:

    Ron Burgundy @ Boorach says: 

    Now get on with that job Blair

    Everyone on here is a YES virus therefore it is up to you to spread the message and not rely on the host virus to do everything for you.
    Get in touch with your local Yes organisation and print the leaflets yourself.
    This is a community based campaign and local people know best what is suitable for their area.
    JUST DO IT

     

  210. HandandShrimp says:

    O/T
     
    Just in case PCSA is still a little concerned over the “police numbers” for the march this is for the record from the ScotPolFed Twitter Feed 23 Sept SPF members were kept busy this weekend facilitating march of 20,000.
     
    Not sure if this has been posted apologies if it has but I didn’t see it (presumably the BBC were too busy with viruses to see this too).

  211. Jeannie says:

    Looks like I’ve got the virus, too.  Not sure how it’s getting spread around but I think this guy might be partly responsible-

  212. Blackford Wheeler says:

    One way to stay positive, and help the virus of independence to become endemic, is to pass this video around of a presentation given by economist  Gordon MacIntyre-Kemp of Business for Scotland to a YES Clydesdale meeting.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bdx73OdXaRk

  213. Luigi says:

    A couple of soft NO friends of mine are showing early signs of infection – starting to ask questions!

  214. Morag says:

    Just in case PCSA is still a little concerned over the “police numbers” for the march this is for the record from the ScotPolFed Twitter Feed 23 Sept SPF members were kept busy this weekend facilitating march of 20,000.

    Not sure if this has been posted apologies if it has but I didn’t see it (presumably the BBC were too busy with viruses to see this too).
     
    Stu mentioned it on one of the posts.  Always bears repeating though.

    https://twitter.com/scotspolfed/status/382171770595205120

  215. scottish_skier says:

    Are you talking about the White Paper?
     
    The joint (UK and SCO Gov) statement is as much as if not more important. It should confirm the white paper largely.
     
    The idea was there should never be a referendum.
     
    If there was, the aftermath would need negotiation. Crucially, this would need to be before the referendum. That would tip the scales so…

  216. Luigi says:

    Symptoms of advanced, irreversible infection appear to be a strong allergic response to Labour bullshit. 

  217. Chic McGregor says:

    It is possible to be assertively positive.  You can display fire, passion and even anger without being in any way negative, dishonest or threatening.
     
    Indeed if you do not display that then eventually people will start to wonder whether you you believe what you are saying.

  218. HandandShrimp says:

    Morag
     
    As a non-Twitterite I somehow doubted I would be first with that. 🙂

  219. Craig P says:

    Bit of a depressing thread this in the below the line comments. Some nice stuff about ‘yes positive’ (cracking phrase by the way) and a whole load of mince about nazis and Johann Lamond’s appearance. 🙁

  220. Chic McGregor says:

    “Apologies but I am Y.E.S. positive.  Please use a fact mask if you wish to avoid infection.” 

  221. muttley79 says:

    @Chic McGregor
     
    When a person gets angry it normally does look threatening though.

  222. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Do you have planes?
     
     

  223. HandandShrimp says:

    Doctor Parkinson declared ‘I’m not surprised to see you here
    You’ve got smokers cough from smoking, brewer’s droop from drinking beer
    I don’t know how you came to get the Betty Davis knees
    But worst of all young man you’ve got Independence Disease’
    He wrote me a prescription he said ‘you are depressed
    But I’m glad you came to see me to get this off your chest
    Come back and see me later – next patient please
    Send in another victim of Independence Disease’
     
    Apologies to Mark Knopfler

  224. creag an tuirc says:

    I’m a YES positive, the unionists North and South of the border will do all the work for us. North, due to their SNP blind spot and South, because they are unaware of how much of their programs are actually broadcast to us.

  225. desimond says:

    Michael Kelly blasting everyone tonight…its  PR to blame….and even Unions choosing JoLo  now  in his sights….oh there will be cringing tonight

  226. Jock McDonnell says:

    it was more intimidating in the original German translation but as someone above said, it is the rhetoric of the damned

  227. Bill C says:

    @Arbroath  1320 – Yeah that’s the one I was talking about, thanks to kininvie I have the YES Positive on my twitter twibbon.  I think it’s a simple, but effective way to highlight the depths which Lamont is plumbing. 

  228. Bill C says:

    Interesting that Michael Kelly was slating Lamont on Newsnight Scotland tonight. Do I smell ferrets in a sack?

  229. John grant says:

    Kelly is a balloon , greaterex nonentity 

  230. Yesitis says:

    Michael Kelly on Newsnight.
     
    When I think of a No vote (and I try not to), his face springs to mind.
    Och…what a gibbering buffoon.
     

  231. Dorothy Devine says:

    I’m morphing in to Typhoid Mary -the more I infect the happier I am!

  232. Murray McCallum says:

    What a mess of a position New Labour seem to be in. Tom Greatrex was saying SNP all about politics of identity while Labour don’t see boundaries, etc, etc.  This from the One Nation party that keep going on about foreigners!

  233. Baheid says:

    I AM THE VIRUS

  234. jim mitchell says:

    desimond, Newsnight was actually quite interesting tonight, I think that we can now take it for granted, that although they will never admit it, there are still sections of the Labour party who are completely underwhelmed by their British party leader and also we now have a public declaration from someone who we are informed is still a leading light in Scottish Labour, that not only do a lot of them not like Johann Lamont as their Scottish leader but that they never wanted her in the first place!
    That could be useful!

  235. Murray McCallum says:

    Johann Lamont has got a terrible job with numpties like Kelly in the background.
     
    He listed proportional representation as bad for Scottish New Labour while it might have been good for Scotland. He summed it up as a mistake. All his points were like that – it was all about New Labour and not about retaining or winning potential voters.

  236. gordoz says:

    Scotland Tonight :
    Hardly touched on the Lamont & Curran craziness; too busy frothing over fabulous speach by Ed the Leader ! 

    Championing Labour leader speach – then they wheel out ‘Snorkel Torquil’ & ‘Sun Tube’ to shout hoorah for Ed the great leader & patriot. (59 mentions of Britain / Wow). 

    Big focus on a woman who nearly died at a previous confrence ?… is that really such a well made point, like they were trying to make out ??

    Seemed very simplistic and lacked impact.

    Wheres the scrutiny of this conference ??

    SNP never ever gets this kind o easy ride … is Eds big energy gift costed ??

    John MacKay – what a complete patsy. No credibility at all.

    Newsnight Scotland  – even worse … what can you say …  Michael Kelly ? Talks crap but never gets interupted by Brewer. Total Labour show.

  237. Davy says:

    Does having the Y.E.S. positive virus mean I will never get to know what the price of stamps will be in an independent Scotland, tears and more tears.
     
    If there is a NO virus this is how will we be able to tell if a person has got it !!!
    No virus symptoms- continious lying, speaking crap, always negative, hates anyone with the initials AS, loves the touch of ermine.
    Beware.
      

  238. joe kane says:

    Another raving loony-bin British nationalist and imperialist, Arnold Toynbee, likened a now historical icon of pacifist politics to Hitler. He claimed Mahatma Gandhi was indistinguishable from Hitler, describing them as both teetotal, both vegetarian and both claiming to be men of peace.

  239. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Would the use of ConDems stop the virus spreading ?  ( I’ll get mah coat )

  240. Davy says:

    kendomacaroonbar – ROFLMAO

  241. kininvie says:

    Interesting to see the reactions to the spread of the Yes virus. A lot of offended unionists saying that our offence is as nothing to their offence at our tastelessness. Some of the wets moaning that it would have been better to express our disgust and move on rather than adopt the Virus…..but tough – you asked for a grassroots campaign, and if sometimes that means we employ mass ridicule, however tastelessly, to rip apart the curtains of hypocrisy….well it works a hundred times better than being all nicey nicey. It also works a hundred times better than responding with anger – which is precisely what Lamont & co are trying to provoke.

  242. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Now that Lamont has identified that we ‘cybernats’ have all been infected with an inherently dangerous virus called the YES virus does this mean that she will be instructing all her followers (MSP’s) to ensure that they all wear masks when entering and leaving the debating chamber in Holyrood lest they too fall victim to this highly debilitating disease? :P:

  243. kininvie says:

    Kendo
    Oh Please put that one out to a wider audience!  Priceless!

  244. desimond says:

    This virus….I cant get the old THE THE song out my head..
    “Infect me with your love”

  245. CameronB says:

    Another raving loony-bin British nationalist and imperialist, Arnold Toynbee, likened a now historical icon of pacifist politics to Hitler. He claimed Mahatma Gandhi was indistinguishable from Hitler, describing them as both teetotal, both vegetarian and both claiming to be men of peace.
     
    Bummer. Now I’ll have to reflect on the moral implications of not eating meat, as well as wait patiently for Better Together to produce a unicorn, sorry +ve case for the Union. 🙁

    I should have realised as one of the least known of yet most influential rock groups, the residents, told us Hitler was a Vegetarian on their “The Third Reich ‘n Roll” album,

  246. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Maybe bbc scotlandshire front page headline “Intercourse between Cybernats increases YES+ virus due to lack of interest in Condems”   huzzah !

  247. MajorBloodnok says:

    I think Johann Lamont’s got an infection too – probably some form of retrovirus that takes her back in time to the 1940s.  Alternatively it could be a nasty bacterial infection, because there are clear signs of staphylococckup.

  248. Chic McGregor says:

    Muttley
    “When a person gets angry it normally does look threatening though.”
     
    Not if it is channeled positively.  I think we have already established that we differ on the word anger.
     
    For me, it is a normal human emotion that all people feel.  Well perhaps ‘all’ is a slight exaggeration since I am not sure of the effects of certain medications etc.
     
    I think we are allowed to get angry, meant to get angry, with things that err… anger us.   It can, of course, be misused or it can be used to simply display how much the matter in question means to you.  Obviously, I only advocate the second option.
    Basically, if someone never gets angry then they are, IMO, for some reason not quite fully alive.
     
    Yes, it can be hidden completely and sometimes that is often the best thing to do even if there is a fundamental dishonesty associated with that (although often done for  ‘white lie’ type reasons).  But IMO there are also times when one’s anger, which after all is effectively only a barometer of how much you feel about a given matter, can and should be used to inform others of your level of feeling.  That is the honest thing to do for both you and the person you are communicating with.  It also informs any third party about your sincerity and level of feeling, which in political terms is important.
    Anger is a natural human response, it is nothing to be ashamed of provided it is displayed responsibly.  Letting people see how angry you are without in any way threatening them only causes them to re-ask themselves just why this person is so exercised by the matter on hand.  They may still come to a contrary conclusion, but at least they have probably then at least tried to get in to your logic bubble. 
     
    It conveys conviction, enhances perception of passion.
     
    It is all about honest communication for me.  I have no time for people who ‘bottle up’ their genuine feelings or conversely put on displays of faux anger.  
     
    All I am asking is that when genuine anger is felt, that that is conveyed rather than suppressed.  Either by statement of the fact or by the manner of speech.
     
    To give a couple of recent examples from the same person.
     
    Nicola Sturgeon’s statement about how angry she was as a woman about Walker’s domestic abuse and her flashes of anger regarding Anas Sarwar’s refusal to answer questions and spouting of lies did her, nor the independence movement no harm whatsoever.  Quite the opposite. IMHO anyway.

  249. Albert Herring says:

    Lamont is an irrelevant nonentity – she’s only reads out the shite. What’s more interesting is that the enemies of Scotland are putting out this garbage a full year ahead of the vote. Desperation or what?

  250. HenBroon says:

    Morag, your defense of Lamont makes no sense, playing the misogynist card is like her saying “as a mother,” whilst glaring her hatred across the benches at Alex Salmond. Lamont is in the public eye. She name calls as much as anyone in particular Alex Salmond. I have yet to hear Alex Salmond lower himself to her level.
     
    Considering that Hitler referred to the Jews as the Virus he was eliminating, I think her remarks about Scottish Nationalist supporters were just about as low as you can get. I for one am deeply offended. Lamont like Thatcher has stained the reputation of woman in politics, she not only offends the eye she offends the senses. She is a repulsive creature, who is prepared to stoop to disgusting depths to try and make cheap political points. Her failure to ever apologise for the lies she brings to the chamber, the most disgusting lies like the subject of rape, which defiles women as she does. She and Bailey are like book ends, repulsive in every sense of the word. I totally despise them. So when I see some one pointing out her physical shortcomings, I say well done she is fair game, she deserves all the insults that can be thrown at her. Please stop playing the feminist card, it is like the boy that cried wolf. And like Better Together subject to the laws of diminishing returns. Much better you save it for some one who actually deserves it. IMHO.

  251. Arbroath 1320 says:

    With any luck this week’s FMQ’s could prove very interesting.
    I’m hoping Alex Salmond picks up on this “attack of the virus.” Last week he swept the floor with her this week I hope he washes the floor with her and leaves her in the bucket after he’s finished with her! :D:

  252. fordie says:

    Accidentally came across this headline ‘Agreement killed by nationalist virus’ in an old article in the Irish Independent. April 2000. Wonder if she lifted if from there.

  253. HenBroon says:

    Morag “And let’s face it, Alex is no oil painting either.” see what you did there? In the word’s of Lesley Riddoch. “come onnn.”

  254. HenBroon says:

    Arbroath 1320
     
    I bet Kenny Gibson will be allowed to ask the Virus question and then he will be set loose on her. Bring it on.

  255. Jimbo says:

    It looks like Lamont, or possibly one of her advisers, has been reading up on 1930s Nazi propaganda and, in their considered view, deemed it appropriate to use it against those who are independence minded. Some-one should point out to Lamont that it is against the law in this country to incite hatred.
     
    I’ve said it here before – With all this hateful rhetoric coming from the NO camp, it only a matter of time before some-one is badly hurt by the more extreme British Nationalist adherents. Who will Lamont & Co blame for that? Who will Scotland’s press hold responsible?

  256. Morag says:

    Morag, your defense of Lamont makes no sense, playing the misogynist card is like her saying “as a mother,” whilst glaring her hatred across the benches at Alex Salmond.

    I’m not defending Lamont.  I’m saying, play the ball, not the (wo)man.  I’m also saying, rhetoric like that, where someone is ridiculed and mocked on account of her  appearance, and purported attempts to improve her appearance are also ridiculed and mocked and pronounced to be doomed to failure, is misogynistic.

    It’s nasty enough when the Bitter Together lot start on about the rotund curry-lover and Fat Eck and so on.  This lot takes it a step further, in ridiculing not just the looks, but any attempt to improve these looks.  It says a lot about how women in particular are judged on their appearance, and about how they’re not even supposed to try to look better.

  257. Arbroath 1320 says:

    Funny you mentioning him Hen. As I was writing my post I was trying to think of someone who might be up for a forceful attack on Labour. I think Kenny Gibson fills that slot quite nicely. :D:

  258. Chic McGregor says:

    Concur re Kenny Gibson but there are others.  Alex Neil, Christine Graham, Mike Russell, Rosie Cunningham, Angus Robertson, John Mason, Linda Fabiani, Kenny MacAskill, Humsa Yousaf, Christina McKelvie,Stwart Maxwell, Shona Robison, Derek MacKay and Rob Gibson can all give as good as they get.  Outside the SNP, Margo MacDonald and Patrick Harvie. 

  259. DonUnder says:

    Usually I can just laugh off Lament’s idiocy but this has REALLY pissed me off (sorry Stu)!
     
    Imagine if she had replaced the word nationilism with Judaism, Islam, Catholicism or Homosexuality.  She’s have been rightly ripped to shreds by any right thinking person.  But because it’s nationalists she is trying to dehumanise we will not hear a peep of outrage from the media.

  260. Keef says:

    Whether it was 8k, 20k or 30k at the rally for Independence, the ‘no’ mob recognised the groundswell and they are now well and truly rattled. Like us they know the momentum has irretrievably turned in the favour of a resounding YES.

  261. Keith Brodie says:

    Eerie parallels – very existence being called into question – now where have I heard that one?
     

    MOSCOW CONDEMNS NATIONALIST ‘VIRUS’ IN 3 BALTIC LANDS
     
    I wonder how it worked out for these guys.

  262. G H Graham says:

    Germ warfare.

  263. Colin Duffy says:

    The Brit Nats have lived in fear of a Scottish national movement rearing its ugly head for a long time and they have been doing everything possible in that time to keep it from rising.
    They infiltrated our media where possible to push the Scots subsidy myth which has now taken on a life of its own, especially in the English press which has resulted in many of our English partners  in union wanting shot of us. Not that they would ever be allowed to vote on their own independence from us!
    Labour made an almighty mistake with devolution and many in the Labour party knew it was a gamble. No doubt some were assured that the SNP could never gain a majority but some probably knew it was going to have the opposite effect and give a platform for Scotlands aspirations to be expressed leading to the inevitable.
    The big shock came with that SNP majority and with it comes the vote they would always deny Scots if they could.
    JoLa`s comments come from a desperate place, as do JaBa`s lies and the smear attempts coming from unionist parties and their media chums.
    The recent YES rally was energizing and whilst there may be times where we doubt we will get there the vision will get out there, the SNP played a blinder giving us plenty time to get the message out there.

  264. Barontorc says:

    Just who is writing her p**h? Is it Pia? Is it Torrance? Is it the guy tossed out of Australia?
     
    We should be told who’s in the credits?

  265. Patrick Roden says:

    The message that is coming out of Labour is now clear as day:
    ” We made a mistake giving the Scots their own parliament, we designed it so that no one party could ever have a working majority, yet that one party we had in mind now has that working majority, that we thought was impossible. Now we have to find ways of getting rid of or at least by-passing, this parliament. Our problem is that this parliament is popular with Scots, so we need to undermine and demonise it before the referendum and when the Scots vote no, they can have no complaints when we completely change the Scottish political landscape and undo all the good work that the SNP has accomplished. our MSM compliant lackeys will ensure that the Scots will not be told the truth so we needn’t worry about any backlash”
    Pathetic. 🙁
     

  266. Josephine says:

    I think they have no choice now n but to check what she’s about to say by a responsible adult beforehand 

  267. CameronB says:

    Keith Brodie
    Well spotted.

  268. john king says:

    loved the quote from Independista over on Newsnet I felt it deserved repeating here
    “Brilliant article Derek. And very timely. To quote Socrates 
    “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”
     

  269. john king says:

    kieth brodie says@ 2.06 am
     
    THAT  needs highlighting, 
    an article rev?

  270. john king says:

    baheid says 
    “I AM THE VIRUS

    think you’ve got something there 🙂
    no not like that, huh
    I am the virus 
    goo goo ka choob
    expert textpert,
    choking smokers,
    dont you know the joker laughs at you
    still working on it but whadja think 🙂

  271. john king says:

    why was there a <cite> tag on that?
     you linked to “I am the walrus”
    didnt you?
    ok scrub the last comment baheid here beat me to it  🙁
    baheid!

  272. john king says:

    jeannie says @10.46pm
    ha ha ha ha 
    how to burst that large pustulating boil on our neck ! 🙂
    Jannie I salute you,
    because that little ditty deflates that annoying boil to a little flea bite 
    gaun yersel 🙂

  273. john king says:

    Andy Macintyre
     great to see you posting regularly here
    any man who can wear a hat like mine gets my vote 🙂
    wife’s convinced I just wear it to annoy her,
    ahem 😉
     

  274. john king says:

    ruby tuesday says
    “Perhaps it would be a good idea for everyone to image Johann Lamont naked whenever she makes a speech.   Personally I just imagine her now with a big purple bow in her hair, Yes buttons on her little jackette and a finger puppet stuck on her pointy finger.”
     
    Yea thanks Ruby now I’ve got to go and get a cloth and wipe the toast off my screen
    what did we do to you?  
      

  275. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    I have a confession to make to you all
     
    I am doubly infected.
    I am Yes+ve and No-ve.
    There is no hope for me
    On the other I am off to donate some more genetic material in the cause of Panda procreation. Where is T Jenny when you need her?
    Sits back and awaits the fusilage.

  276. Weedeochandorris says:

    The “Britification of Scotland” is well under way but we “reckless” Scots have put the cat among the pigeons.  The arrogance of that woman is breathtaking. I just can’t get my head round any Scot who supposedly loves their country trying to hang, draw and quarter it. What comes next?  Containment measures to keep those who have the “virus” quarantened??  Or maybe burning our books that highlight Scottish culture or history because they’re not British enough?  When are people going to wake up to the real agenda here?  How far does this have to go for the Scottish people to rise up against this creeping British police state.  We should all be afraid, very afraid because when Lamont has the arrogance to call her own people a virus she is laying the pathway for the dehumanisation of any group who dares to even imagine themselves as Scottish never mind independent.

  277. Ruby Tuesday says:

     john king says:

    Yea thanks Ruby now I’ve got to go and get a cloth and wipe the toast off my screen
    what did we do to you

    You infected me with the Yes virus. 

  278. Silverytay says:

    Arbroath @ 12.14 .
    Instead of Johann,s followers wearing masks at first ministers questions would it not be better  if all the pro independence m.s.p,s wore them instead .
    It might be more effective for the t.v cameras that way as they are all now officially plague carriers according to miss lamont .

  279. Quinie frae Angus says:

    @barontorc
     
    I believe that the person who writes most of Johann’s speeches is Paul Sinclair, who is a former Daily Record political editor (or maybe just journalist), then he was an adviser to Douglas Alexander, and he then wrote speeches for Gordon Brown.

  280. Albalha says:

    J Lamont about to be on GMS.

  281. Jeannie says:

    @John King
     
    I know – it’s a brilliant wee song, isn’t it.  Tom Lehrer’s stuff never seems to grow old.  You’ve no idea how long I’ve waited for the right context to post that song 🙂

  282. Dorothy Devine says:

    Jeannie , thanks for the lovely Tom Lehrer – one of my great favourites in my misspent youth!

  283. Keith Brodie says:

    Lamont being hung out to dry by the BBC – another car crash interview. Is anyone brave enough to transcribe it?

  284. Albalha says:

    J Lamont says, in response to being asked about the virus remark and people feeling offended ….
    “SNP activists are just waiting to be offended”

  285. Marcia says:

    What Mrs Graham can’t seem to get her head around is that the Yes campaign is multi-party and people of no party, not just the SNP.

  286. Jeannie says:

    Jo La on GMS talking about issues of poverty, unemployment, equality:  Alex Bell, the First Minister’s own adviser said that small countries can better address these issues but the SNP deny the issues exist at all.
     
    What is wrong with this woman? The SNP and the YES campaign are never done talking about how to deal with these issues – it’s what the whole campaign is about!. 
     
    Propaganda plus The Big Lie Technique – is that really all they’ve got? 
     
    I’ve thought Johann isn’t looking well since she came back after the summer – not criticising her looks – just saying she looks as though she’s maybe been ill – but this morning on GMS, she actually didn’t sound well, either.

  287. Molly says:

    Is my memory playing tricks or did the 6 big energy companies not start off as small energy companies ( Caroline Flints point about opening up competition ) who were bought over in a similar way to the banks , in the name of a ‘ free market ‘ ? Is this a magic roundabout kind of thing ?
    Please someone answer quickly as I’ve waited all morning to be outraged 

  288. Keith Brodie says:

    o/t Interesting article which reinforces the need for independence;
     
    Are these the men who would be king?

  289. HenBroon says:

    Patrick Roden
    It is now Labour policy to undermine the Scottish Parliament by handing most of it’s powers to councils, they know it is the only way they can get back at the SNP. So policy been driven by visceral hatred and racism, when you consider the Lamont virus sneer. What a disgraceful place Labour are now in.

  290. Jeannie says:

    @Barotorc
    Just who is writing her p**h? Is it Pia? Is it Torrance? Is it the guy tossed out of Australia?
     
    I thought the same thing yesterday watching Milliband’s speech.  For some reason the writers thought it would be a good idea to give him “fighting talk” – but for that to be effective, it needs to be delivered by someone who has the look and sound of a fighter.  Ed Milliband neither looks nor sounds like a fighter.  His body language is not the language of a fighter.  His voice is not the voice of a fighter.  So what you got was incongruity – a mismatch between the actual words and the speaker.  Incongruity puts our brains on “alert” that something is wrong and makes us anxious.
     
    If I were his speechwriter, I’d never put fighting words into his mouth.  It just looks wrong.
     
    Also, for gawd sake stop giving him jokes – he just cannae deliver them!
     

  291. Keef says:

    This latest verse for the Proclaimers classic popped into my head on the way home today.
    …and when I’m voting
    Then you know am gonna be, am gonna be the wan who’s voting YES for you.
    (No rights reserved, they can use it at next year’s rally if they wish) 🙂

  292. Archie [not Erchie] says:

    @ Keith Brodie – Thanks for that link and I am totally gobsmacked. I encourage us all on this website to read the blog.

  293. HenBroon says:

    Morag said.
     
    ” It says a lot about how women in particular are judged on their appearance, and about how they’re not even supposed to try to look better.”
     
    Morag every single one of us is judged on appearance. You are overplaying the feminist hand here given who you are trying to defend. You have now made two references to Alex Salmond’s appearance. “Play the ball” you say and then you go on to play the man. Alex is one of the most talked about and demonised politicians by the Unionists. Some who have even brought up the fact that he is married to an older woman and they have no children. It is the politics of the gutter, and the Unionists have been right down there for years. It is no surprise to me that on line commentators feel the need to have a go back. All this stuff about “we are better than they are” is pish. I can get down and dirty with the best of them and still maintain my dignity.

    When you are operating at the level politicians are at you need to maintain a sense of decency. Lamont and her vile cronies could not spell decency. To deal the feminist card for that creature is an affront to those women who are deserving of  feminist support. She devalued victims of rape with her cheap stunt. A crime that is to some victims a fate worse than death. She also devalued the victims of Hitler with her desire to be seen to her predominantly English audience as a proper colonised Brit, by sneering at Independence supporters.  Her hatred and bile has poisoned her, mentally and physically, that is a fair observation. She deserves nothing but withering contempt. Like Thatcher she has set the gain line for women in politics back decades.

  294. Keef says:

    Hey Dave thanks for the link.
     
    IMHO I honestly believe the only union worth saving is the Trades union.

    It is indeed a no brainer for trade unionists to vote YES. If any are in doubt, let them think long and hard on how much of their fees have been consumed fighting legal wars with a Westminster govt, to stave of the erosion of their rights. Not, I might add to increase their rights and lifestyle but purely to try and hold on to the rights that were fought tooth and nail for in past times.

  295. GrahamB says:

    Not surprised there are few comments so far on Johann Lamentable’s ramblings on GMS. I found it very difficult to work out what she was waffling on about as she was obviously still in conference mode – attack your opponents but don’t give anything positive in return, speak about visions and what brought you into politics but don’t risk giving any practical suggestions. All hot air and bullshit.
    On the energy price freeze, (already heard commentators calling it a price CUT) short of nationalisation of the energy companies it will take major legislation to be able to do anything about it and that would likely take until the end of 2017 to get through Westminster’s two houses.

  296. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “She deserves nothing but withering contempt.”

    I agree. So why let ourselves down with comments about her appearance when there are so many better reasons to despise her?

  297. Another own goal from Johann. Twitter & PussJotter are erupting with “I’m YES Positive” badges.
     
    Some manufactured outrage from gay groups likening it to making light of HIV. Since when did HIV have a monopoly on viral language?

  298. CameronB says:

    So the rule is “play the ball”. Hope that applies to everyone.

  299. Gillie says:

    “SNP activists are just waiting to be offended” – J Lamont
     
    So speaks a bitter stairhead-rammy merchant.  

  300. Jiggsbro says:

    So the rule is “play the ball”. Hope that applies to everyone
     
    It does. But other people breaking rules is never an excuse to break rules ourselves.

  301. HenBroon says:

    “I agree. So why let ourselves down with comments about her appearance when there are so many better reasons to despise her?”
     
    But that is my point Rev, no one is letting them selves down. This is the age of the internet and people have conversations just as you do in the Pub or Club. There are extremes on both sides. If you behave in the way these people do you can expect some flack to come back. I say we are not angels, this stuff about “we are better than them” only provokes more ridicule. We are human. If my neighbour pokes a sharp stick in my eye, I will not turn the other cheek. I will reach down his throat and pull his arsehole over his head, and then go to A&E. That is just me. Others may feel more dignified walking away, that is just human. Some say Christian. Look what the Romans did to the Christians? Look what the Christians did to each other?

    To play the feminist card for Johann Lamont is a travesty, and an insult to women, as she is. She deserves everything that comes her way. If she can’t stand the heat then she needs a new script writer. This is the way it all began for Hitler. Demonising, and inciting hatred, that is what the vile bitch is playing with.  I will say no more.

  302. Luigi says:

    Agreed, but some people were so incensed by her remarks, they had to let off steam in some way.  We are all human after all, and JL has seriously offended c. 40% of the Scottish population who may consider themselves nationalist in some way, big or small N.
     
    Her attempt to confine her “virus” remark on GMS today, and isloate the SNP activists as viruses, was pathetic.  Many small “n” nationalists, who may have voted SNP at least once in their lives, will also be offended today.
     
    Alienating a significant, critical proportion of the Scottish electorate, namely those that voted SNP (or thought about it) in 2011, but are still undecided, or soft NO, by labelling them as viruses, is not a wise move.

  303. CameronB says:

    Jiggsbro
    I don’t think you got my meaning, but I agree with your reply.

  304. Morag says:

    To deal the feminist card for that creature is an affront to those women who are deserving of  feminist support.
     
    You are still completely misinterpreting my position, perhaps because I have not been clear enough.  I am not defending Johann Lamont.  I am defending all women against the deeply offensive rhetoric you were using.

    I don’t give a monkey’s whether she’s offended or not.  I do give a monkey’s about all the women in the land who worry that their appearance isn’t good enough to get them the job they want, or keep their man.  When attacks such as yours are normalised, when it is OK to pour scorn on one woman’s appearance like that, it becomes OK to pour scorn on any woman’s appearance.

    I don’t like it when the other side do it to Alex Salmond either, but what’s coming out here towards Johann is even worse.  It is a feminist issue, because women in politics are judged on their looks far more than men.  I admire people like Shirley Williams and Anne Widdicombe, who can say “the hell with it, this is who I am and if you don’t like it, tough”.  Not every woman can do that.  Johann is obviously trying with her appearance.

    To hurl such invective at a woman who is trying, is sending a signal to all women that an unfortunate appearance is a thing to be ridiculed.  Even worse, that attempts to improve that appearance are also to be ridiculed.  Not only is one supposed to look like Honor Blackman, one is supposed to do it naturally, without any effort.  Nobody can do that.

    You can be as offensive as you like about Johann, she’s earned it.  But the rhetoric that was being used last night is offensive to all women, and we don’t need that.  As Stu said, we’re not so short of ammunition that we have to turn that sort of bile on her appearance.

  305. Gillie says:

    We need to address the words of hatred being spit out by the likes of Johann Lamont.  If that means tackling certain characteristics of her public behaviour such as her tactic of continually smearing political opponents, openly telling lies in parliament, defaming members of the public, and her overly spiteful and bitter nature, then it has to be done. 
     
    Surely no one in their right mind would want to see such a person as First Minister of Scotland – we would all die from embarrassment. 

  306. Harry Shanks says:

    @ Roddy Macdonald.
     
    Actually it’s not “manufactured outrage” from LGBT groups.
    Whilst I support the reaction to Lamont’s “virus” remarks, this jokey “I’m YES positive” slogan is in pretty poor taste. IMHO.

  307. Luigi says:

    I AM NOT A VIRUS
     
    Good message for a T-shirt or placard, just to remind everyone what JL said!

  308. The Man in the Jar says:

    Anyone know the dates for next years Labour party conference? Is it before or after 18 Sept.? If it is before considering the amount of jam tomorrow produced this year imagine what it will be like next year. After all they are not expecting to win the general election so they can promise the world and don’t have to deliver anything.
    Free gas and electricity.
    The westminster government will pay you to have a spare room.
    A free pair of union jack curtains for every house in Scotland. 
    Complete eradication of the nationalist virus.
    Hurra for One Nation Labour!

  309. Morag says:

    This is the age of the internet and people have conversations just as you do in the Pub or Club.
     
    That is kind of the point.  We know guys say deeply hurtful things about our appearance down the pub and the club.  We can’t hear them, and they’re gone in the aether.  What you’re doing is bringing this language into a different company – into a mixed-sex conversation, and on to the internet where your words sit forevermore to be read by anyone.  It’s shoving it in our faces.
     
    Frankly, it’s abuse like this that puts many women off going into politics.  They read that kind of thing, aimed at someone like Lamont, and think, if that’s the sort of soul-destroying invective I’m going to get, I just won’t bother.
     
    Every example of that sort of abuse that a women reads, chips away at her confidence a bit more.  I feel it too.  If these guys judge one woman like this, what are they saying about other women?  What are they saying about me?  It’s corrosive, and we don’t need it.

  310. Barontorc says:

    @Keith Brodie – http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2013/09/23/are-these-the-men-who-would-be-king/
     
    Thanks Keith – so, there we have it, all spewing out from under a big dirty rock:-
     
    KMPG is running NHS England into the ground.
     
    KMPG is owned by ATOS.
     
    UNUM of Tennessee is the strategist behind the DWP.
     
    UNUM funds the right wing think-tank REFORM.
     
    REFORM is fronting up “NEW THINKING ON THE WELFARE STATE”
     
    “NEW THINKING ON THE WELFARE STATE” is being sponsored by the ASSOCIATION OF BRITISH INSURERS.
     
    Is anybody spotting a theme running through all of this?
     
     

  311. seoc says:

    Two wee points – can offence be ‘given’? Seriously? It might be intended, but surely ‘offence’ can only be taken?
    The Law of Reciprocity will ensure what is given out, will return in its own way and its own time.
    Call it Cause & Effect or Karma, but it brings down the deceitful, the liar and the cheat.

  312. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    OK
    I am NO-ve

  313. Gillie says:

    Harry Shanks says:
    Actually it’s not “manufactured outrage” from LGBT groups.
    Actually I think the opposite is true.  Context is everything and that is why Lamont’s “virus” comment is offensive and “I’m YES positive” riposte is not. 
     

  314. CameronB says:

    Thought I’d add some delusion to JoLo’s psychosis. I suggest securing sharp objects before reading.
     
    I don’t know enough about that archive site and frankly wouldn’t trust any Israeli IT company, so it’s the raw link I’m afraid.
    http://www.scotsman.com/news/brian-wilson-let-dignity-preside-in-parliament-1-2662840

  315. Morag says:

    o/t Interesting article which reinforces the need for independence;
     
    Are these the men who would be king?
     
    Deeply worrying.  Like the sort of stuff Stu puts on the Sealand Gazette.  We need to get out of this partnership.

  316. Scaraben says:

    Morag says
    I’m saying, play the ball, not the (wo)man.  I’m also saying, rhetoric like that, where someone is ridiculed and mocked on account of her  appearance, and purported attempts to improve her appearance are also ridiculed and mocked and pronounced to be doomed to failure, is misogynistic.
     
    I agree with you except for the last word; I would substitute ‘counter-productive’, which it is, in my opinion, regardless of the gender of the person being ridiculed. If a politician or other public figure says or does something which deserves criticism, then criticise them for that. Slagging unionists off on the basis of their looks, or their weight, or even their choice of clothing, can be very satisfying to those who are strongly committed to independence, but may appear petty and childish to anyone visiting this site in search of information to help them decide which way they should vote.
     
    I would go further and suggest that even when criticism of unionists’ words or actions is fully justified, that criticism is actually more effective if it is expressed in a moderate, even slightly understated way, rather than as a rant full of extreme terms and even swear words, which may actually antagonise any ‘don’t know’ or ‘no but could be persuaded to vote yes’ people who read it.
     
    Is this site more valuable as one where committed supporters of independence can encourage each other, and let off steam about the unionists, or as one which encourages other people to vote Yes?

  317. Braco says:

    Grammar Nazi alert!
    Get your non-defining article correct. Nation is a feminine noun and it should therefore read Eine Nation: Labour
    How’s that then Morag? stiffblondehugobossedsmileysalute

  318. Horacesaysyes says:

    As I’m currently reading ‘The Stand’ at the moment, all this talk of viruses is making me decidedly uncomfortable!

  319. HenBroon says:

    Morag what you appear to be promoting is positive discrimination for women. I abhor discrimination in every form. Are you really telling me that guys are not judged on appearance, that women do not talk about guys? Please. It is nasty what ever direction it comes from. Guys can also be destroyed by judgements and remarks. Women do not have a monopoly on sensitivity. I support feminism when used in context, as I do meninism. However some people use these isms at every opportunity and devalue the sentiment. Lamont gave up the right to be treated as a feminine person by her actions and words, she has set feminism back decades. Because she happens to be female, she does not merit any special treatment. She is fair game she has made absolutely sure of that. As seoc said it is Karma. I have no respect what ever for her and her ilk. I am certain many people are put of going in to politics for those reasons not just women. There are many reasons why people do not make careers in various professions. Some jobs are more suited to certain types of people, maybe politics is one of these jobs.  Female or Male they are utterly repugnant.

  320. jim mitchell says:

    Re Jl’s virus comments, I’m sorry if this has been mentioned already but I seem to remember a certain Mr Alexander lecturing everybody about their conduct in the ongoing referendum debate especially with regard to their comments.
    Of course the media took this to imply that only Nationalists were being condemned by him.

  321. KOF says:

    @Rev Stu 09:46
    “I agree. So why let ourselves down with comments about her appearance when there are so many better reasons to despise her?”
    http://wingsoverscotland.com/one-nation-under-a-jaikit/
     
    A minor example but, kettles anyone?

  322. Elizabeth says:

    Here’s Johann being quizzed by Gary Robertson on GMS this morning. She was own  at 8:30  that’s 2:35 in: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03b36h6

  323. Morag says:

    My comment at 10.43 was addressed to Braco, by the way.

  324. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Anyone know the dates for next years Labour party conference? Is it before or after 18 Sept?”

    I believe it’s after. Lamont said something about being there celebrating.

  325. Thepnr says:

    @Ghillie
    Actually I think the opposite is true.  Context is everything and that is why Lamont’s “virus” comment is offensive and “I’m YES positive” riposte is not.
     
    I do agree, Lamont used the virus metaphor as something that must be avoided, and implied that just by conversing with a “Nat” you may become infected.
    ” I’m YES positive” however to me says that those afflicted will ignore her attempted smears and tell her loudly that they really don’t give a toss what she tries to label supporters of independence with.

  326. Keith Brodie says:

    @ Barontorc
     
    Thanks for taking the time to read the link. Just need to clarify one thing though; ATOS owns the consulting arm of KPMG – not KPMG as a whole. Hope that keeps the lawyers happy.
     

  327. Morag says:

    I agree with you except for the last word; I would substitute ‘counter-productive’, which it is, in my opinion, regardless of the gender of the person being ridiculed.
     
    I agree with that to a large extent, and with what Hen said about men being ridiculed too, but there is no doubt that it is a feminine issue.  The sheer amount of comment women get about their looks, particularly women in politics, is phenomenal.
     
    Women are also conditioned to believe their looks matter, far more than men are.  They read something like that written about Lamont, and many of them immediately take it personally.  They cringe inside, as it encapsulates all their own inner insecurities, and imagine that they’re next in line for the abuse.
     
    Look at some of the fat male slobs in parliament.  Both parliaments.  Nevertheless, personal attacks on their appearance are the exception rather than the rule.  They’re judged by what they say and what they do.  So let’s judge Johann by what she says and what she does, both of which provide enough scope for withering criticism.  You’re not short of material here.

  328. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “A minor example but, kettles anyone?”

    Um, in what way is that to do with anyone’s appearance? Anybody can put a jacket on, whether they’re attractive or unattractive.

  329. Jeannie says:

    @seoc
     
    can offence be ‘given’? Seriously? It might be intended, but surely ‘offence’ can only be taken?
     
    I would agree. That’s why turning the remark on its head and ridiculing it is a healthier way of dealing with it.  And it’s better for your own blood pressure – if not for theirs.  I would also remind people who claim to be offended by the “I’m Yes Positive” message that context is everything and these words are being used strictly within the context of the referendum.  You’ll only feel offended if you decontextualise them.
     
    And whereas I think it’s unfair to make derisory remarks about anybody’s appearance (though sometimes I’ve done it myself), I think Eleanor Roosevelt, a woman much-derided and ridiculed for her looks,  gave wise advice on the subject when she said,  “No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent”.
     
    Taking offence and feeling inferior is our own responsibility at the end of the day.  It’s just that we often don’t realise it.  But I would also say to the Lamonts of this world…..if you dish it out, it’s likely somebody is going to dish it back – how you then deal with that is up to you.

  330. Morag says:

    A minor example but, kettles anyone?
     
    Aw, come on.  He was poking fun at their choice of wardrobe.  That is completely fair game, any day of the week.

  331. HenBroon says:

    Scaraben
     
    Whart I find attractive about this site is the fact that in general we can vent our spleens, I do not think that is putting people of, I think many people say “I wish I had said that.” I know from my own conversations, people have said to me that they agree, but that I may have been a wee bit rough on someone. or as was said to me last night as I let of steam on this subject, someone said after wards, “your right by the way.” Out of earshot of some others.
    There are politicians who I find very appealing because they are willing to have a go and put the boot in where and when required. I’m thinking Kenny Gibson, Stewart Maxwell, Angus Robertson aye and Margo and Christine Graham. Swinney can let it go on occasions, as can Alex Salmond, who has been tempered by coaching and the awareness that the he is the figure head. However all of these people stay truthful, and if they make a mistake they come to the chamber and apologise.
     
    In Salmonds younger days his ability to have a go in Westminster is what made him the figure he is. His star has never been brighter. My wife despises him because he is married to an older women. How logical is that? I was going to make a sexist remark but am aware of Morags beady eye ;o))) I think what we hear time and again is that people want to see Yes and the SNP taking of the kid gloves putting in the gum shields and getting tore right in. Would that put people of, it seems not?

  332. Morag says:

    Actually it’s not “manufactured outrage” from LGBT groups.
    Whilst I support the reaction to Lamont’s “virus” remarks, this jokey “I’m YES positive” slogan is in pretty poor taste. IMHO.
     
    I don’t know if it’s manufactured or not, but it’s not really sensible.  Here is a bunch of people happily tweeting that they are Yes-positive, as being a thoroughly good thing that they want to tell people about.  If there are any HIV parallels, and I’m not that convinced, the context is, well, “positive”.

  333. Braco says:

    Morag,
    So I am a tardy grammar Nazi (they are the worst)!
    verylatestiffblondehugobossedsmileysalute.
     

  334. Robert Kerr says:

    This is not meant to be offensive in any way…. really !
    I have held an opinion for many years that labour women politicians do themselves no favours by their tribal attitudes and complete lack of genuine humour. When did you last see one of them smile ? a Genuine and human warmth sourced smile! There is a bitterness that infects them all. Is this bitterness partly based on their self knowledge of their lack of attractiveness?
    I agree completely that we play the ball not the wo(man). 
    I do not pretend to understand women. I new a student who claimed to do so…. He never graduated…. sectioned under mental health legislation for his own safety.
    (That was a joke !)
     

  335. Morag says:

    Morag what you appear to be promoting is positive discrimination for women.
     
    No, what I’m saying is that women in politics should be treated in the same way as men.  Male politicians simply do not have to put up with this constant barrage of invective denigrating their looks.  They are far more likely to be judged by what they do and say, than by whether or not they are a wee fat bauchle.  Even Cecil Parkinson never attracted the sort of bile about his undoubtedly grotesque appearance that some women get about carrying an extra few pounds, for example.

  336. CameronB says:

    I can be crude on occasion, and having sat in on a few ‘hen night’ I know the girls can be cruder.
     
    Re. Keith Brodie’s post @ 9:08
     

    “The first truth is that the liberty of a democracy is not safe if the people tolerate the growth of private power to a point where it becomes stronger than their democratic state itself. That, in its essence, is fascism — ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power.”
     

     
    Franklin D. Roosevelt, April 29, 1938. Message to congress.

     

  337. Morag says:

    Eerie parallels – very existence being called into question – now where have I heard that one?

    MOSCOW CONDEMNS NATIONALIST ‘VIRUS’ IN 3 BALTIC LANDS

    I wonder how it worked out for these guys.
     
    You know, that’s really really important.  I second calls for an article about this.

  338. Jeannie says:

    @Cameron B
     
    Great quote!

  339. Desimond says:

    HenBroon walks into a bar.
    The Barman says “Why the long face?”.
    Morag says “Oh here we F*cking go!”
    🙂

    As Elaine C Smith said on saturday, “We’re Scottish, we like an argument!”

  340. Jeannie says:

    Feeling really guilty now for saying the other day that Maigrit Curran reminded me of Zelda out of Terrahawks.  Taking responsibility and now apologising. 
     
    Feeling much better now.  Honesty is the best policy.

  341. Boorach says:

    Just a thought but if JoLa really does care about her appearance would she not spend more time in front of the mirror working on her delivery without the expressions of naked hate and envy displayed every time she opens her mouth?

  342. Albalha says:

    Re the Roosevelt quote, the work of Sheldon Wolin and the idea of Inverted Totalitarianism is worth looking at.
    An article by Chris Hedges who supports the theory
    http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/democracy_in_america_is_a_useful_fiction_20100124
     

  343. Patrick Roden says:

    I don’t think we should attack JL’s looks, not because I’m concerned for that woman’s feelings, but simply because it doesn’t win votes.
    The way I feel after hearing what she said though, once we win our independence, we need to round up a couple of they fat ugly labour wumin and through them in the river Tay.

  344. Morag says:

    Just a thought but if JoLa really does care about her appearance would she not spend more time in front of the mirror working on her delivery without the expressions of naked hate and envy displayed every time she opens her mouth?
     
    The odd thing about that is that I see indications that she has been having training about how to deliver these speeches.  It just isn’t working very well.

  345. Robert Louis says:

    Here’s my tuppence worth.
     
    I have lost count of the number of times, Johan Lamont or somebody from HER party in Scotland has verbally abused the First Minister of Scotland, Alex Salmond purely on his physical appearance.  I have not once seen an apology from Lamont, nor have I seen her reprimand members of HER party, for their outrageous abuse of Alex Salmond.   I have bugger all sympathy for ANY person (man OR woman), who behaves in such a way.  Having said that, I do think we with our winning argument should try to rise above it, and not indulge nonsense abusive comments from either side.
    This however, is not a feminist issue.  Not at all.  In fact trying to turn it into a feminist issue, is the very worst kind of misogyny.  With Lamont’s role (whether she is male OR female), comes the responsibility to set the standard of discourse by her party regarding independence, and she has singularly failed to set a civilised standard.
     
    Then we come on to this site, and supporters of independence.  I sometimes do indulge in strong words about Lamont, so maybe i am as guilty as the next, but then it is hard not to with a person such as Lamont.  However I agree it is a good idea not to go down the personal abuse route.  Maybe I and others need to push our positive message to retaliate, rather than falling into the gutter with unionists.  Remember the old saying, ‘never wrestle with a pig, the pig will enjoy it and YOU will get dirty’.  We will win with a positive message, not by joining the unionist negativity.
     
    As regards the ‘I’m YES virus positive’ slogan, well it has unfortunate connotations to those who are HIV positive, not just GAY people (unless we want to reinforce absurd stereotypes), so whilst people created it for the best reason, unintentionally I can see how it may not necessarily offend (that is too strong a word), but just be seen as ‘not very good’ by some. I would describe the phrase as, ‘unfortunate’, and marketing gurus would avoid it.  Besides, a simple YES, is much more effective and simpler, isn’t it.
    Together, with our positive winning message, we CAN win this referendum, and end 300 years of colonial London mis-rule over Scotland, to create a better future for every Scot.
     
    Vote YES, in 2014.

  346. Morag says:

    Robert, I agree with what you say about the denigration of Salmond’s appearance, and this never being criticised from the unionist camp.  However, it is something of a one-off.  They do it because they don’t have anything else to throw at him, frankly.
     
    Lamont is different in two ways.  One is she’s female, so denigrating her appearance is merely to continue this appalling, corrosive stereotype of judging women by their looks rather than their abilities.  And two, you are NOT short of other things to throw at her.

  347. Vee Mack says:

    “….Scotland is our country and our cause. We must unite. We must embrace change. We must stand with the people of Scotland. We must represent all their hopes and aspirations and be the means of fulfilling them.
    Together we will change the Scottish Labour Party, win the chance to serve the people again and make Scotland the country we all know it can be….”
    20th Dec 2011
    http://www.labourhame.com/archives/2705#more-2705
     
    What happened, Johann? What exactly have you changed your party into?

  348. Jeannie says:

    Actually, to be fair, we do have a go a men’s looks as well, even though we shouldn’t.  But it’s not just coming from the indy side.  I’m told that within their own parties, Jim Murphy is referred to as “Skeletor”, Andy Kerr was called “Horace Broon” and Michael Moore is known as “Hermann Munster”.  Not that it makes it ok, mind you.

  349. Chic McGregor says:

    Never thought that the homosexual community might take offence at the use of the word positive.  However it is not for me or anyone else to say what can cause offence to a group.
     
    So I’m changing my suggested variant on the theme to:
     
    ‘Sorry, I have been infected by the YES virus.  To avoid infection please take anti-facterial precautions.”

  350. Morag says:

    Jeannie, I’m really talking about degree here.  You can take self-censorship too far.  A wee bit of fun-poking at Johann as a wee bauchle doesn’t seem to me to be entirely reprehensible.  It’s just that the sheer intensity of the bile and vitriol that was coming from several quarters last night about ugliness and make-overs and so on was well past a joke.

  351. muttley79 says:

    @Albalha
     
     
    J Lamont says, in response to being asked about the virus remark and people feeling offended ….
    “SNP activists are just waiting to be offended”
     
    That is typical of Lamont I am afraid to say.  She never takes responsibility for her actions.  It is always the SNP’s fault.  The hatred she has for the SNP, and Salmond is particular, is unhealthy. 

  352. HenBroon says:

    “Male politicians simply do not have to put up with this constant barrage of invective denigrating their looks”
     
    Morag FFS you are now becoming Duncan Hothersall, that is just bollocks and you know it.
     
    Did you never see spitting images. David Steel was politically destroyed by that programme. And he bloody well earned it.
     
    I’m of to the pub. JFC I can’t believe you posted that.

  353. Spout says:

    I agree with Morag on the negativity and denigration:
    ” We will win if we stay positive.  The minute we morph into a negative campaign, we’ll lose”
    We are knee deep in a liberation struggle, we must constructively demolish their lies & propaganda and focus our anger on the matter in hand – bringing people with us/opening their eyes  – with seriousness, positivity and humour – to a Yes vote.
     
    The alternative is destructive to ourselves and to Scotland:
    “Our humanity is bound up with others. We saw it in South Africa. If you carry out a policy that dehumanizes others, in the process you are dehumanized.” – Archbishop Desmond Tutu

  354. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Tomorrow belongs to us.. Vote YES
    Allways describe myself as a National Socalist.
    Lamont, Curran and Co are nothing but washouse bullies. Those of us who are old enough will know what I mean and will most likley have seen it in action. Wasent pretty then and is not pretty now.

  355. Morag says:

    Hen, you’re really not thinking.  Spitting Image didn’t denigrate David Steel’s looks.
     
    I agree this is something that sometimes affects men too, and it’s something we should avoid no matter who the subject of it is.  However the level of comment on the looks of a woman politician is orders of magnitude beyond the aggregate of similar comments against men.  That makes it a particularly touchy issue for all women.

  356. Taranaich says:

    Regarding the use of humour in defusing the virus thing (“I’m Y.E.S. Positive” etc): I do think it’s a great way to counter the disgusting implications:
     
    Of course it is impossible to take revenge for 6 million murdered Jews. But by using the medium of comedy, we can try to rob Hitler of his posthumous power and myths. In doing so, we should remember that Hitler did have some talents. He was able to fool an entire population into letting him be their leader. However, this role was basically a few numbers too great for him –- but he simply covered over this deficiency… Hitler must have had a magnetic attractive force, like a rock star he used his voice to spellbind umpteen thousands of listeners. So it’s only fitting when comic actors make him the limelight hog of world history. We take away from him the holy seriousness that always surrounded him and protected him like a cordon.
     – Mel Brooks
     
    So taking this “nationalism is a virus” thing and making fun of it, making it into a joke, mitigates the impact it might’ve had, hobbling its power. By being offended, you’re giving legitimacy to Scottish Labour that it arguably doesn’t deserve. On the other hand, making a joke of it runs the risk of not taking the threat seriously enough. I think it’ll be fine if we had a mix, some people claiming virus as an ironic badge of honour, others not dignifying it with such a response. Who knows.
     
    As for Lamont only doing what her superiors tell her, that doesn’t reflect well on her either way. Either she agrees with what was written in the speech, or she disagreed, but said it anyway. She’s either complicit, or spineless.

  357. smudge says:

    I’d love a badge that says something like Im proud to be Scottish virus positive but the real joke here is “Scottish” Labour
     

  358. BobW says:

    Morag
    I’ll try to phrase this in a non misogynistic way, but take it as you wish.
    JoLa, in my view is ‘ugly’, that is not a comment on her perceived physical attractiveness, it’s a comment on what she espouses and how she venomously attacks/ denigrates any person opposed to her and her ‘sides’ view regarding the government of Scotland and it’s people. Not all beauty comes from physical appearance, JoLa projects little if any ‘inner’ beauty, in any situation, in which I have observed her in TV interviews. I’m sure she does in certain situations, possibly when cradling a grandchild or when her leader mentions her in dispatches.
    I’d make the same observation regarding WR, BMcD or any of the other male protagonist involved in the Negative side, who use similar tactics/ arguments, to undermine our democratic process.
    Just my 2p contribution

  359. Morag says:

    Bob, I don’t disagree with you.  However, that wasn’t the tone of the remarks I was unhappy with.  They were all about looks, make-overs, facelifts and so on.
     
    Before that started someone else remarked that she looked tired and unwell, and seemed to be aging fast.  I think that’s true, and a justified observation.  She really is not in a good place, and spouting bile and hatred every time she opens her mouth has got to leave a mark.

  360. TJenny says:

    Could we not email the Presiding Officer at Holyrood,
    Tricia [dot] Marwick [dot] msp [at] scottish [dot] parliament [dot] uk
    and demand JL apologises in the chamber and is suspended for a time for bringing our Parliament into disrepute and disrespecing our people? I’m sure there are countries in Europe where she would be arrested for inciting hatred crime. I think emails from especially non-SNP members (state it on your email) who are Yes voters might carry extra weight (or prove her point re infection?)
    I am mortified at the thought of JL representing Scotland on any stage but imagine if she became FM! Oh, the horror, oh the shame.
     

  361. HandandShrimp says:

    “SNP activists are just waiting to be offended”
     
    Is this not exactly the same as arguments put forward by people like Godfrey Bloom?

  362. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Taranaich   A good point well made. well done.

  363. tartanfever says:

    TJenny, while I agree in principal with what you are suggesting, i think Tricia Marwick is only responsible for events that take place inside the Holyrood Chamber and would be seen to be interfering if she commented on Lamont’s Brighton speech.
    However, if she used such language in Holyrood, I would hope Tricia Marwick would sort her out.

  364. TJenny says:

    Just fired off an email to Tricia Marwick asking for the Parly to demand an apology from JL for calling some 40% of the people she’s meant to be representing ‘a virus’ , and gave the link to this WoS article, and to try to introduce some decency into the debate.

    Will keep you updated as to reply although if there is an apology you’ll all obviously find out.

  365. muttley79 says:

    @HandandShrimp
     
    Yes, the tactic seems to be say something very offensive, and then criticise the people who are offended, and make out that they are the ones to blame…

  366. Quick the suns oot says:

    Anyone on here have Johann as their MSP? Handily it turns out her next surgery is this saturday at 10am. Form a queue round the block! She needs to hear it directly from real people. 
    http://www.johannlamontmsp.co.uk/surgeries/

  367. Weedeochandorris says:

    Patient – Doctor,doctor I think I’ve been infected with the Yes virus!
    Doctor – Pull youself together and pass it on, it’s something for nothing!

  368. TJenny says:

    I’ve received an automatic email reply from Ms Marwick, PO  saying her inbox is very busy but she will be in touch as soon as possible, and a second email from the Office of the Presiding Officer to say;
    ‘Ts ihis an interim response to acknowledge receipt of your email and to note that it is currently receiving attention. A full response will be issued to you as soon as possible.’.
    Perhaps there aren’t any procedures in place to reprimand MSPs for publicly denigrating their people – but if not -there should be. Hope I’m not the only one to have taken this action as the more complaints to the PO there are on this, and other lying Slab behavaiour, the better. (don’t know why the font’s changed in my last para?)

  369. Quick the suns oot says:

    @T Jenny
    hmm, I emailed JoLa last night at the scottish parliament address and didnt get an auto reply. The email is in my sent mail folder so assumed it went… I didnt swear or write anything offensive, nothing i can see that would cause it to be rooted out. I wonder if she got it now.

  370. TJenny says:

    BtP  Just caught up with your earlier coment. You post far to early for me as I don’t usualy surface ’til @ noon;-)
    Re you’re + and – were you undecided but now you’re not so sure? I’ll await a positive announcement from Edinburgh Zoo on the arrival of panda babies before I believe the veracity of your endeavours. Perhaps your + and – are cancelling each other out, ergo, no panda babies;-(
     

  371. Patrick Roden says:

    I’m beginning to wonder if it isn’t the Labour Parties strategy to keep JL insulting Yes campaigners, until they begin to get so angry that they demand a response from Yes/SNP that is as equally nasty as JL’s comment or smear.
     
    Maybe they hope to drive a wedge between the yes campaign and it’s support, as we get increasingly frustrated that ‘she is insulting us’ and ‘our side are letting her’ and ‘not defending us’ etc.
     
    We know they read his site and they must be delighted when they see the demands from some, that YES get tore into the No camp especially Lammont and they will undoubtedly want to exploit any divisions in our camp.
     
    So c’mon troops, I’m as angry about them as anyone, and have noticed my blood boiling more over the past few weeks, as the comments get more and more bilefull, but we need to keep it positive and not let disagreements divide us or distract us from our aims.
     
    It’s all about getting that Yes vote on the day, so lets not  let them get us down. 🙂

  372. Patrick Roden says:

    Oh and I just tried to listen to call Kaye, and it said that the service was unavailable at the moment and I should try again later!!!
     
    Now, I wonder why that is ? 🙂

  373. TJenny says:

    Quick the suns oot – perhaps she’s waiting to get the reply sent up from Ed and he’s a wee bit busy just now pressing the flesh and basking in adulation from his acolytes.

  374. HandandShrimp says:

    Patrick
     
    The thing is Johann is such an artless slagger than one actually feels a bit sorry for her. I for one am a tiny bit worried that Kelly was putting the boot in last night. Now would be a very good time to leave her “in charge” of SLab. We don’t want anyone competent taking over at this delicate stage.

  375. Morag says:

    You seem to have overlooked something.  The question of whether there is actually anyone competent who could or would agree to be given the job.

  376. Juteman says:

    The best response to Lamont, is for everyone to send her a bunch of flowers, with a wee note saying ‘cheer up’. Seriously. 🙂

  377. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    T Jenny
     
    I am Y+ve and N-ve

    maybe I only fire blanks?

  378. TJenny says:

    BtP – Ah, I see what you mean as in Y and + = Yes and No and – = 2 negs making a positive = Yes! Throw in another Yes and you could be Meg Ryan;-)
    Your last sentence may explain the lack of wee pandas.
     

  379. Juteman says:

    The Edinburra Panda fires blanks too, so don’t feel too bad, Bugger. 🙂
    Jaffa.

  380. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Not just a pretty face

  381. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I do it deliberately.

  382. Juteman says:

    Nice speaking to you last Saturday, Bugger. I think.
    A few refreshments had been taken.

  383. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I remember nothing but good times Juteman, honestly.
     
    Nae bickerin,  nae fightin and not a lot of bevvyin, allegedly.
     
    It was some day.

  384. TJenny says:

    It was truly fab to meet up with not only Rev Stu, but so many Wossers on Saturday. Pity we didn’t have an after rally plan to congregate. So, is anyone up for a Wossers night out in Edinburgh sometime soon? I know a few went to a pub gathering in Glasgow not long ago – are there any in Edinburgh area up for a wee pub soiree?

  385. Morag says:

    *Waves*

  386. Morag says:

    You have to wait till after 10th October though.
     
    http://www.thesouthernreporter.co.uk/news/local-headlines/final-list-of-candidates-for-tweeddale-west-by-election-unveiled-1-3084860
     
    My God, the UKIP candidate is a local quack.  Quack as in quack I mean, not as in slang for actual doctor.

  387. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Any time any place T Jenny?

  388. TJenny says:

    Morag – don’t look into his eyes.

  389. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Eh, mines?

  390. X_Sticks says:

    Juteman says:
     

    “The best response to Lamont, is for everyone to send her a bunch of flowers, with a wee note saying ‘cheer up’. Seriously”
     
    Seriously fucking (sorry!) brilliant!
     
    I think you may have just come up with a plan…
     
    c/o Holyrood?

    PS

    That was indeed a braw day, especially at the Albannach – wish I had met more of you all. Next time.

    PPS
    Apart from tripping over the step.

  391. TJenny says:

    Morag – I’m Ok with it being after 10 Oct.
    BtP – wee blushingsmileythingy
     

  392. Morag says:

    Morag – don’t look into his eyes.
     
    😀
     
    To be fair, it is good for some psychological things, like anxiety and panic attacks.  But a lot of what they claim is absolute nonsense.  A switch inside your head that can just be flipped to make you stop smoking, and similar flavours of mince.

  393. TJenny says:

    BtP – no, not your eyes, the hypnotherapist that’s standing for UKIP as per Morag’s link above.

  394. Juteman says:

    @X-Sticks.
    I was being serious. Imagine if hundreds of poseys arrived at Holyrood with a wee ‘cheer up’ note for Lamont. 🙂
    If my sister will let me couch surf, I may be up for an Edinburra night oot.

  395. X_Sticks says:

    Juteman says:
     
    “@X-Sticks.
    I was being serious. Imagine if hundreds of poseys arrived at Holyrood with a wee ‘cheer up’ note for Lamont.”
     
    Aye, man, I’m up for it. Would be hilarious.
     
    Do you think the florists will do Deadly Nightshade?
     
    🙂
     

  396. david says:

    POISON IVY IS A PERFECT NICKNAME FOR POISON LAMONT

  397. Juteman says:

    I can just see the BBC headlines.
    ‘Evil Nat bastards try to kill Lamont with hay fever’. 🙂

  398. david says:

    i would not waste a penny on her

  399. Juteman says:

    Well i’m sending the pair wee sowel a bunch this week. She looks like she needs cheering up.

  400. david says:

    you must be a very nice man

  401. TJenny says:

    Juteman – your posy will have to be red roses (of Lab) and/or thistles.

  402. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Why don’t we go down the Cemmy or Cremmy and pick up what has been left?
    Seems much more appropriate to me, dying flowers for a dead political party?
    B t P

  403. TJenny says:

    Talking about dead parties, is that why Ed was wearing a black tie at the Lab conf?

  404. gerry parker says:

    @Keith Brodie 
    Great link, good to see Peter Bell contributing so eloquently too.
    Have passed it on to John Ward.
    g.p

  405. The Flamster says:

    Late to the debate as usual:
     
    What about a placard saying something along the lines of:
    If Nationalism is the Virus then Independence is the Cure or,
    If Salmond is the Virus then Independence is the Cure or,
    If Nasty Nats are the Virus then Independence is the Cure or,
    The Labour Party are the Virus and Independence is the Cure
    You get the drift…

  406. Morag says:

    I think a lot of this is now missing the point that everybody except a few obsessive politicos will have forgotten that Johann ever used the word “virus” by the weekend.  So t-shirts and posters are liable to be met with a blank stare.

  407. Papadocx says:

    Red Ed is upset that the power companies are spreading fear through lies and mis information, wonder what he thinks of the press, broadcasters, Westminster mis information services, and most of all his field officers up here in north brittain lord foulkes, alastair darling, Kodac, Davidson, and the front line troops: lamont, Bailey, Kelly, grey, baker and the other cannon fodder. So long as Ed and north brittain has this load of parasites to protect us we’ll be ok then. In your dreams, watch yer back and yer pockets! Animals do strange and unpredictable things when they sense their trough is in danger.  Is this what scottish unionist politics has desended to?  

  408. Wayne Brown says:

    Some days after the event, but in a report on the march in Al Jazeera
    (http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/09/20000-scots-rally-for-independence-from-uk-20139248521262163.html)
    A quote from Lamont’s virus, misery, cynicism speech is followed by this –
    Unsurprisingly, Lamont’s assessment of Scottish nationalism did not resonate with the marchers in Edinburgh. “I feel it’s all inclusive,” said Tarlika Elisabeth Schmitz, who moved to Scotland from Germany 17 years ago.
    Schmitz travelled from Lochaber in the Highlands to the capital for the rally. “It’s great to be here,” she said as she walked towards Calton Hill, accompanied by her Scottish terrier, Nechtain, in a blue “Yes” shawl.
    “I think we will do it. I am pretty confident we will win.”
     
     



Comment - new users please read this page first for commenting rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use the live preview box. Include paragraph breaks or I WILL KILL YOU WITH HAMMERS.




↑ Top