Nations overboard
As alert readers will recall, this week we commissioned Panelbase to poll the good people of England, and we got some answers that we think will blow your minds. But we’re going to start with one we suspect people will find sad, but all too predictable.
Many will remember bitterly the short-lived “lovebombing” campaign from the indyref, in which a list of semi-celebrities from the rest of the UK was assembled to assure Scots of how much they were valued and cherished by their UK partners.
Four years on, not so much.
Because overall, the voters of England – that’s Remainers and Leavers combined – would drop Scotland like a hot potato if it were somehow to be necessary in order to secure Brexit. (And remember, very nearly half of them don’t even WANT Brexit. How much must those guys hate us?) Just a third of English voters don’t think it’d be worth ditching Scotland to get out of the EU.
If you exclude don’t-know responses, those numbers come out, ironically, to 55-45.
Still, at least it’s not just us.
Because by an even bigger margin (59-41), the people of England are also willing – on those numbers one might go so far as to say “eager” – to dump Northern Ireland if it gets them out of the European Union.
We didn’t ask about Wales because Wales voted Leave. But we did ask one more.
The only thing that our English cousins were almost reluctant (51-49 excluding DKs) to sacrifice was the part of the UK that’s actually just a tiny rocky outcrop of someone else’s country and has roughly the same population as Dumfries or Irvine or Falkirk. (To be honest we’re kicking ourselves for not asking about the Falkland Islands now.)
The people of England would, by a comfortable distance, rather hang on to the 34,000 citizens (plus some apes) of Gibraltar than the 7.2 million of Scotland and Northern Ireland, but they’d still quite happily surrender all three just to reduce the number of immigrants coming to the UK and trash the economy.
All we’d say is, we don’t envy the person who has to make the video next time.
Its a plus – cant wait for the BBC expose of ‘hatred of Scotland’.
Oh – I can!
Well, England’s held onto Gibraltar since 1704 so it predates the Union of 1707 and the existence of Northern Ireland, so that’ll be the reason. Probably.
Thought this would be the case. England is brought up on a diet of being the UK benefactor and folk believe it. We in Scotland are subsidy junkies who are a drain on their prosperity.
I do not blame ordinary English folk but I sure as he’ll blame their leaders who have spoon fed them this bilge for generations.
Now ,to business. If we can delay or inhibit Brexit for as long as we can then the cry to let Scotland go will be loud indeed. We have to frustrate their will at every turn ,and with our own push towards indy the clamour to be rid of us will be unsurmountable.
Many ways to skin a cat indeed.
I wonder – and maybe we won’t ever know the answer to this – the extent to which answers on the Gibraltar one were governed by the inclusion of ‘returned to Spain’ in the question? What I mean is that I suspect some would have seen Spain as somehow ‘winning’ something that was ‘theirs’ and answering on that basis.
Shocking – I am utterly bereft that we are no longer loved by our southern cousins. [Shrugs]
More ammo for the battle ahead. Well done, Rev.
Gee whizz! Looks to me like England wants *its* independence – from everyone else!
Brexit is only about protecting English Law.. the laws of England are based on land and land ownership. In Scotland, like the E.U. our laws are based more on the rights of the individual. So when Smug-Reese states we are all living in caves then he means it, as they will return us all to the holes in the ground. They set it up to fail, they put a man who is a convicted forger and thief in charge of the new world order contracts. A man who is described by his friends as being as thick as mince and a lazy as a toad to negotiate our divorce with the E.U. The people who voted to leave are English let them have it.. Lets free Scotland and let the English bring back the bloody code… SCOTLAND !!!!
Sacrifice the colonies for the greater good of England…hmmm. Some things never change.
I’ve often wondered who paid for those ‘semi celebrity’ pr stunts in indyref and whether some of those who partook were also paid?
Cause that’s clearly the only way they’d be willing to plead for Scotland to stay in the union.
Nicely done Stu, lovely timing 🙂
rUK keeps trying to ignore reality and thinks it’s still a major global nation. I wonder what non-UK people think of that?
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
Couldn’t even bring myself to watch even half that vid…these ‘celebzzzzzz’ should be totally ashamed. Scotland let’s go…..please!!!!!!
rUK still thinks that it’s a major nation in world affairs and has a strong economy, a totally delusional position as non-UK people have a habit of reminding them –
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
‘but, but..we love you Scotland, please, please stay.’
Narrow No vote comes in.
‘shut the f*** up Scotland, England is leaving the EU, because we hate furriners, and we’re forcibly taking Scotland too whether you like it or not’.
Perhaps all those decades of depicting Scotland and Ireland as ungrateful, bad-tempered burdens have been successful.
Whereas Gibraltar, with its thriving trade in tax-dodging, smuggling and iffy financial firms, is viewed as a valuable asset.
Yes. That’s it. The only other explanation is that England is becoming ever-more isolationist and xenophobic: Obsessed with purging foreigners at any cost…
Will stv cover this poll? It all adds to our case I am reassured.
Touched my heart, yet again.
I am sooooo loved. Aaaaaaaw, da nice.
Landing strip one should be asking for independence from Scotland. They have gotten away from the EU so go on you silly serfs/village idiots you know it makes sense and our Scottish resources wont be available to prop you lot up anymore. Win/Win for Scotia!
In EURef England voted for its independence. Fair enough, they need to be allowed to get on with it. The massive issue I have is WM equating England to the UK and expecting us all to follow.
What this poll shows is the majority of ordinary English don’t actually agree with WM. The majority appear to recognise that England leaving the EU does not and need not equate to the whole UK being dragged out.
In that respect this news in good. As the notion of Scottish independence becomes normalised in Scotland, we don’t want residual majority opposition from England.
Encouraging that over half of English voters would be happy for us to go our separate ways. Let’s draw up the contract.
Fixed it for you:
The people of England would, by a comfortable distance, rather hang on to the 34,000 citizens (plus some apes) of Gibraltar than the 7.2 million of Scotland and Northern Ireland (plus some apes)
Tony Robinson – the creep with the neep (in a kilt).
Tuesday’s BBC web article about Holyrood rejecting the EU Withdrawal bill was open to comment and because it was on the UK Politics page attracted thousand of English posters. They were fairly evenly split between ‘yay go for it Scotland’ and ‘whinging Jocks just shut up and go, good riddance’.
I didnt see a single ‘dont go Scotland we love you’.
The usual SNP-bad proud Scot brigade were drowned out lol
So, apparently, the English only care about England. Curiously, we Irish worked that one out years ago, which is why we don’t get Scots who think there’s such a thing as “the United Kingdom” for them to be loyal to. Because the English certainly don’t.
As the media often remarks that Scottish nationalists just want independence as they hate the English. That maybe true for a few but the UK is unique in that it has four constituent nations but only one …England gets its own way all the time. I have many English friends but the UK is not working and its time to wind it up for the good of all before the extreme factions on both sides take control.
There are undoubtedly seismic shifts in the political geography of the UK. Unionists often talk about the Scottish referendum being divisive but the vitriol that is spat out on largely English press sites like the Daily Mail between “Brexiteers” and “Remoaners” makes our referendum look like banter between friends in the pub on a Saturday night. The UK is not a happy place to be.
It is certainly the case that if there is an Indyref2 it will be much harder for May to organise a cross party Better Together that has any credibility and much, much harder to marshal the sort of love in we saw last time.
As a former victim of domestic abuse who did eventually walk out on her husband, I never understood what JK Rowling was thinking when she wrote about the ‘heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go.’
Haha…that’s made my day. Genuine laugh out loud.
I wonder if the *Chief Reporter* will run an *exclusive*?…
England is stuck with shit political choices so they have no choice but to vote for the shit they get
Remember when Scotland had shit political choices and were stuck with voting for really shit Labour until the SNP came along and is getting us out of the shit
England doesn’t have anybody to vote for and the media keeps it that way, so many of the English folk have turned into the arseholes the media and their shit governments led them into believing that’s how they should be
It’s hard to change from eating human flesh when there’s nothing else available, it’s taken us a while
I believe Scottish Independence will open the eyes of the English into seeing what things could be like
That’s if their media ever let them see with their own eyes
there are still too many in Scotland blind as bats and we’re nearly there
Not easy
Ian says:
I love that vid, ignorant yet patronising presenter gets her received opinions telt.
This poll confirms to the hilt the attitudes that we encountered during the last indyref. It should be no surprise that this is a general reflection of Anglo Saxon attitudes given the continual remorseless feed that is supplied from London based media. Much more depressing is that this is reinforced by Scottish based “journalists” and “reporters” working in Scotland.
The Southern British view of Scotland is of a bleak, relatively unproductive location requiring, even after more than 300 years in the incorporating Union , subsidy and support.
Scandinavians view the self same country as a relatively balmy, asset rich and seriously underutilised location .
What would they know?
IndyRef2.
“Please don’t go Scotland. We love you. We know we were really mean after talking you into staying last time but we really, really mean it this time. Honest.”
Anyone buying it? Phantom Power needs to do a satirical version (mockery) of that vid for IndyRef2 – each “We love you, please stay” intercut with another slap-in-the-face to Scotland from WM.
Hardly a surprise.
Any BBC Scottish Politics news story which allows comments always has plenty posts which only insult and belittle Scotland. What’s so telling about those is not the posts, themselves. It’s the ‘Thumbs Up’ ratings they get. They’re always massively popular.
Life comes at you fast right enough.
Westminster is going ahead with Brexit, with apparently only a little over 3% majority of the vote (51.89 -48.11). This on an advisory referendum. But, y’know. Democratic will of the people donchaknow.
Sooooo, 43% – 35% in favour of chucking Scotland to make Brexit happen. Wonder if Westminster policy wonks are still all for ‘the will of the people’ at this point?
HandandShrimp says:
Definitely, and for a myriad of reasons.
As far as the cross party aspect goes, last time it was that is theory, but in practice Labour fronted. Labour paid dearly for doing so.
Also the toxic Tories kept a lowish profile last time, however they and their media have invested heavily to the Ruth Davidson No Ref brand. That has rallied many BritNats and means they will be obliged to try to deploy that brand in IndyRef2. The limited success has been achieved by avoiding the toxic London aspect. Should that toxicity rise to the fore, Tory participation will be damaging to a NO cause.
Then, next time any BT will be backfooted because of Brexit and several years of disrespecting Scottish opinions. Next time the future credibility of the UK will be judged on its post 2014 performance.
Brexit would be a far simpler process if England had just been honest and admitted they want to be independent.
Out of one union – out of both. Simples.
I’d have voted for that. I’d give them their freedom. (Not that they’ll have it for longer than it takes the Americans to own it all and suck the country dry.)
Please don’t forget to update https://wingsoverscotland.com/polls/
Very interesting results.
Well, yeah, it’s yer Empire innit. You Sweaties, all yer do is moan, moan, moan, scrounge, bleedin subsidy junkies, swallowin’ all our taxes mate.
Greatest bleedin empire the world has ever seen mate, it was England wot done it, and you Jocks, you just hang onto our coat tails, a bleein extra weight on us you are.
Yeah, we’d be better orf without you lot holding us back – go, but, you cant have our pound.
And them Micks – just as bad, good riddance the lot of you.
But Gibraltar, well, that’s English innit – always has been, them apes and all that. Yer Royal Navy, Nelson. Course we gotta hold onto Gibraltar, put them greasy Dagos in their place.
As reported on dinner time BBC TV news . . . . Oil prices are at their highest level since September 2014
The Achilles heal of UK plc is English Nationalism. A very large, dangerous elephant in the room and an existential threat to the union (probably even more so than Scotland).
The British establishment has been struggling to keep a cap on this since devolution, when the scots and welsh got their own parliaments (and the English felt (wrongly) short-changed). They tried to set up pretend regional English parliaments but the people didn’t buy into it. They tried the parliaments, they tried “Cool Britannia” and now they are trying a mass Labelling and re-writing of British (and English) history. Doomed to failure. The real Englanders won’t settle now. They don’t really care about Britain, Scotland or the union. They just care about their own identity.
The British establishment tries to play identity politics with the masses, but the problem is that English (and Scottish) nationalism will always trump British nationalism. And whilst they may contain the former (for a while), they will struggle big time with the latter.
With BREXIT, English nationalism has burst into the national consciousness south of the border – and it ain’t going away. The constitutional can has been opened and the worms are already out. IMO English nationalism will play a massive part in the final breakup of the union. Not sure how, exactly, but it will be decisive.
“Not that they’ll have it for longer than it takes the Americans to own it all and suck the country dry.”
More likely, China.
Watched the video – when do the celebrities come on?
Christ oan, ah Fleein Scoat frame.
Jist free iz.
Goan, ya UkRap erses. Dae iz, awe ah favour.
Craig P @ 11.38 a.m.
As a former victim of domestic abuse who did eventually walk out on her husband, I never understood what JK Rowling was thinking when she wrote about the ‘heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go.’
_________
A more realistic, and dare I say it, literate approach to the “domestic violence angle” than Rowling’s British sentimentality hogwash. From Welsh Sion’s cannon and created exactly 9 months before Indy Ref1 – go figure! Note the use of all the proper nouns in the piece …
(Apologies, despite conflicting issues here, I can’t resist cutting and pasting.)
________
43. (of 60.)
Angela Alba’s having a baby
Angela Alba lives in a small town, not so far away and she’s having a baby. Of that, there’s no doubt. All the tests in her white paper checklist have proved positive, and now, nine months down the line, she knows she’s going to give birth to a new life form. It’s all so very exciting, and Angela’s feeling pretty excited too. It will be a momentous day in her life and she knows it will change her perspectives and her ways of thinking forever.
She also knows that after so many years of domestic abuse, she will finally be very happy. Angela has made a vow to herself and her unborn baby that she will do everything in her power to love him (or her) with as much mother’s love as she can. The baby will want for nothing and Angela will ensure that it gets all that it needs in support to ensure that it stands proud on its own two feet and look the world straight in the eye.
These last few years have been a trial for Angela. Her husband, Jack Union (Angela had at least kept her dignity and her maiden name on marrying – but little else) is an abusive, boorish, uncaring man. He has often left Angela in the lurch by going on various boozy fuelled trips with his mates, in particular Sam Washington.
Many is the time that Angela has heard that they’ve been involved in fights at various pubs – the latest one being a fracas in the Baghdad Arms. It came as no surprise to Angela that both Jack and Sam were no longer welcome at the Baghdad Arms – they’ve been banned from so many other pubs in town.
Even the patience of the landlady of the European pub, Bea Russell, was wearing a bit thin, and she was on the verge of issuing a final warning to Jack Union, before excluding him entirely from her hostelry. [And now Jack Union has taken himself out of the European pub, vowing never to return.]
Invariably too, Jack Union is an aggressive, selfish man. He keeps most of the money that he earns from Angela in order to maintain his boozy, self-centred lifestyle. He rarely gives anything to her.
Indeed, so uncaring is he towards his partner, that Jack Union is not averse to taking her money too, leaving Angela poor and upset at home. Far too often, Angela is also the victim of domestic violence at the hands of Jack Union.
Angela has thought of leaving her abusive husband on many occasions. In 1979, she had attempted to break free of him, but through a cunning ruse and frightening her into thinking that she couldn’t live without him, Jack Union had ‘persuaded’ Angela to stay.
Then, in 1997, after years of neglect, Jack bought Angela a new kitchen. Doubtless, he thought he was being very magnanimous towards his wife. But Angela saw things differently. Yes, the kitchen was a boon, it was a place of her own where she could do her own thing and think her own thoughts, but in reality it only served as a place where she continued cooking and slaving for her husband.
She was not truly free of his influence even then, not independent, and invariably if Angela did something wrong in the kitchen – burning Jack’s toast, for example – Jack would bawl at her for being ‘too weak, too poor, too stupid.’ She couldn’t even get such basic things right, he’d shout. He would then storm out of the house and join Sam Washington in a local bar and get drunk, all the while decrying Angela.
Angela is by now convinced that her relationship with Jack Union has broken down irretrievably. Their partnership is no longer one of two equals – if it ever was. She wants a divorce and she wants one quickly.
But she’s also sensible enough to realise that she has to insist on her fair share of the assets of their marriage. She has consulted her good friend, Nicola, a specialist in family law, and she has advised Angela how best to go about it.
Although she’s now pregnant, Angela can’t see that the baby will change anything or bring both her and Jack Union together. It’s gone too far for that, and indeed, knowing her husband’s behaviour, Angela’s aware that he didn’t want this baby.
Jack Union is associating with Beattie, who has made a name for herself as ‘the village bike.’ She takes on all-comers, though it seems that Jack Union is her favourite ‘client.’ She’s a crabby, embittered woman (not unlike her sisters, Johann and Margaret) and is jealous of the fact that Angela Alba’s pregnant.
Her own son, George London, has gone south and made a name for himself as a banker someplace in the City, where he has retained many of his mother’s egotistical characteristics. He has never given the town a second thought since as he has pursued his own selfish goals – but he has retained the affections of and for his mother, Beattie. This is only to be expected, but Beattie and her son still seem to be linked by an invisible umbilical chord, years after the latter’s birth.
Beattie will have strong words with Jack Union about Angela’s forthcoming delivery. There are those in the little town who whisper darkly that Beattie and Jack are already conspiring to ensure that Angela abort the foetus before the end of her term or that they are trying to induce her to miscarry. There must be some truth in this, as both Jack Union and Beattie are often seen leaping out of the shadows, projecting fear onto poor Angela.
But Angela is a resilient character. And aided and counselled by her good friend and lawyer, Nicola, who along with other members of the latter’s legal partnership of Jenkins, Canavan and Salmond LLP, is helping her maintain her dignity through it all. Angela Alba will stand tall, look the bullies in the eye, give birth in nine months time to a bonny, wee baby, divorce her husband and make a new life for herself and her offspring.
The rest of the little town will be so happy for her – she will truly be an independent woman, and be free of the machinations of her soon to be ex-husband, Jack Union. Both he and Beattie will be run out of town.
______
Parables for the New Politics
2012-2018
Well done Rev as that’s an eye opener for me, I wouldn’t have been that surprised if this was the result from just Leave voters but that fact that 43% of all voters in England would dump Scotland for the sake of Brexit truly amazes me.
Oh well, there you go. It just shows the power of propaganda about subsidy junkies and how good Brexit will be when they “take back control”. They actually believe all that shit.
In my opinion we should foment more of this feeling amongst the English.
If ever you come across an English person complaining we are subsidised, don’t set them straight, complain they are not giving us enough.
Of course you with Scots you should try and set them straight.
We need to get this message out there and spread far and wide.
Does anyone fancy posting this to SiU to let them know just how much they are unloved? They would be foaming at the mouth.
That’s the problem, many ordinary English people either couldn’t care less about Scotland or they consider they would be better off without having to pay subsidies to Scotland.
As for those Scots but’s they are delusional if believe they are respected by people in England for supporting the union, when in truth they are probably despised
Good. Just make it happen. People in the rest of the UK support Independence for Scotland. It is the unionist politicians, especially in Scotland who are the problem.
Mental health issues are worse because of Westminster policues. Austerity. Cuts to welfare funding.
Suicide rates are the same since 1985. They fluctuate. Risen since 2015 because of austerity?
STV 2 channel is rubbish.
Sennin thae erses, alang yoan ‘Lang Luck’ (Hulfurt tae Gawstin), widnae gee ye stracht folk.
Sets aff, oan ‘Fleein Scoat’ frame.
BBC Complaint response
Thank you for your correspondence.
Your comments were passed to the Deputy Head of News and Current Affairs, who has asked that I forward his response as follows: “Thank you for being in touch about our Online service on Wednesday 9th May and its coverage of the Global Drug Survey for 2018 which was published late the previous night. The Global Drug Survey has been published for several years now, with an increasing data base which in the current survey is claimed to explore the recreational drug use of 130,000 people across 44 countries. The authors say that more than 5,000 of them are in the UK. However, they are upfront about the limitations of their report: “Our survey is not a general population survey and should not be used to determine the prevalence of drug use within a population”.
Nevertheless the GDS publishers claim that “GDS is an efficient approach to gain content rich data that explores diverse health outcomes associated with the use of drugs and alcohol across the population of your country.” And “GDS helps you better understand the quantitative dynamics of personal decision-making about drug use, detects regional differences in patterns of drug use and related harm, and informs novel interventions. It provides essential, current data on the patterns of use, harms, health and well-being experienced by the full spectrum of users in your country.” Some of this context was missing from our earlier reporting of the story. These areas of output included the one about which you complain – an early page online headed “Drug users in Scotland ‘consume most cocaine’ in one session”. This was taken from a news release which accompanied the embargoed publication of the Survey and which said: “For cocaine consumption, respondents from Scotland consumed over double the global average per session of 0.5g at 1.2g ranking first in the world. Respondents from England consumed the second highest quantity at 0.7g.” This was in accord with the Survey’s own declared intention not to use figures “to determine the prevalence of drug use within a population” or to have such figures used by others for that purpose. Our coverage at that point did not indicate that the survey was self-selecting and conducted anonymously. That was a statement that would have added context and nuance to our online report. As the coverage developed across the day, further context and detail was added, including additions to the online story.
When it came to Reporting Scotland’s flagship teatime edition, the story had been further developed and in a live studio interview the reporter Aileen Clarke had this to say: “The Global Drug Survey is put together by taking information that comes from anonymous web surveys of recreational drugs users. The academics who put this together themselves say it should not be taken to determine how common drug use is in any population – that is not what it’s for – what they use this for is to really help develop harm reduction strategies, for example, for drugs users. So, apart from what users are telling them about how much cocaine they are using at a time, the survey does not really take us very much further into how many people in Scotland are using cocaine. However, the Scottish Drugs Forum” – who were in Aileen’s report – “say it is well known that Scots are pretty high up there when it comes to the highest consumers of cocaine, often combining it with alcohol (…)” These remarks set the context of the report more clearly than our earlier efforts and I do not feel that what I have said lends any substance to your claim that our output was “a spin of report to create alarm and fear”. I am grateful to you for taking the trouble to let me know what you thought about that earlier coverage.”
Thank you, once again, for taking the time to contact us
Kind regards
John Hamill
BBC Complaints Team
This is one of the reasons I think the next indy referendum will be yes. You see, last time around, it was easy for Tory boy Cameron to milk the nostalgia (fake tears and all), and you had English folk happily defending the notion of the UK including Scotland.
I don’t think you will have so many ‘luvvies’ crying on camera for us Scots to stay, because they really, really love us, this time around. Many will see it as a way of spiting the Tories and brexiteers.
Right now, their are many in England who think Scotland will be quite right to leave the UK, because of brexit. almost half the English electorate oppose brexit, and I do not doubt many of them will cheer Scotland on to independence – not because they dislike us, but because they actually see it as fair and right. Many down there are as p*ssed off as we are.
Things are very different this time around. Many in England despise brexit and what is being done, and might see Scottish independence as a means of halting Westminster in its tracks.
ROBBO says: 17 May, 2018 at 11:36 am:
” … That maybe true for a few but the UK is unique in that it has four constituent nations but only one …England gets its own way all the time.”
When are you going to get your head round the truth, ROBBO?
The United KINGDOM does not have four constituent nations. It only has two constituent, Equally Sovereign”, , KINGDOMS. Furthermore, Britain, has seven distinct countries.
I’ll list them for you:-
Scotland, (which is also a sovereign kingdom):
Wales, (Which is also an English Principality):
Ireland, partitioned but still just one country: (N.I. is, though, an English Province).
The Bailiwick of Jersey, A Crown Protectorate but not part of the UK Government:
The Bailiwick of Guernsey, A Crown Protectorate but not part of the UK Government):
Isle of Man, A Crown Protectorate but not part of the UK Government:
I seem to have missed one! Oh! Wait! There is England, of course, and the reason I missed England out is because there hasn’t been an English Parliament since the end of April 1707. Then, of course, England is also a Kingdom but it is composed of three distinct countries and you were talking about countries and not kingdoms.
But there’s the stark truth. You, like so many others, are brainwashed by Westminster to be totally unable to distinguish the difference between country and kingdom and that is the whole key to the little matter of Scotland’s independence.
Let me spell it out to you and just why it is of the utmost importance.
The name of the thing that was created by the Treaty of Union is, “The United Kingdom”, it is thus a two partner kingdom and is not, and never has been a unified country. The implications of confusing the terms country and kingdom in that context are these:-
If The Country of Scotland leaves the United Kingdom with the United Kingdom being a four country unit then the country of Scotland is leaving behind a still existent United Kingdom that is thus entitled to hold onto all the United Kingdoms assets.
However, if the, equally sovereign, Kingdom of Scotland leaves the equally sovereign Kingdom of England then the two partner United Kingdom partnership has ended and the two, equally sovereign, kingdoms then set about negotiating the share out of the former United Kingdom’s assets. Now bear in mind that Westminster is NOT the parliament of England it is the parliament of the united kingdom and that means there isn’t a single person elected as a member of an English Parliament to negotiate with.
Now here’s the clincher – The Kingdom of England is a monarchy with a legally sovereign monarch – that means the Monarch of the kingdom of England is who must negotiate for the Kingdom of England, (three countries). However, that same person is also the Queen of Scots but is not sovereign under Scots law but is protector of the people’s sovereignty and thus the court, I assume it would need to be an international court, would declare she had conflicting interests and could not defend the people of Scotland’s sovereignty while attempting to negotiate on her own behalf.
And no, that isn’t far fetched, it is the actual real legal position and there is a referenced article, (up-thread), with proper legal opinions about the Treaty of Union that says just that but in legalese terms. .
… I have many English friends but the UK is not working and its time to wind it up for the good of all before the extreme factions on both sides take control.”
Aye! ROBBO, it certainly isn’t working for the very good reason the Westminster is running itself as the parliament of the country of England with three dominion countries and is thus devolving England’s powers to three countries and the United Kingdom is a two partner Kingdom.
I wouldn’t get too complacent about this. Even without the financial input from Scotland I’ve a sneaking suspicion a concerted effort will be made to keep us about so Westminster can give us a kicking in order to salve their humiliation. Sort of like the dog or wife beaten by scum.
thanks for reminding us just how detestable J K Rowling is.
It’s maybe not a front line policy, given the English aren’t bothered about losing Scotland, it wouldn’t take much of a push to encourage that sentiment.
I don’t mean agitate acrimony and division, but rather “soften” the idea of Scottish Independence as creating a transitional state, sovereign and in the EU, but also with a longstanding trade arrangement with the UK.
Scotland, conditional upon UK-wide support for Indy, even reluctant support, could be a buffer state between rUK and Europe. Scotland could be it’s own little Schengen zone, and for the want of a better comparison, function as a bonded store for trade between the UK and EU.
The UK gets its Brexit, but also an EU lifeline, the EU doesn’t lose all rUK trade but also is not burdened with regulation because that would be Scotland’s responsibility, which is doable given the maritime border between Scotland and the EU, where all trade will go through upgraded Scottish ports.
Scotland gets an amicable Indy, a % on rUK / EU trade which is initially invested in upgrading Scotland’s capacity to handle the trade and customs checks.
Soft Brexit for Westminster, a light grip retained on rUK trade for Europe to suit EU exports and regulate imports, and Scotland, Independent in Europe, and taking a cut of all through trade between EU and rUK.
Everybody is potentially happy, depends on the details of course, but giving Westminster a potential silver lining to Brexit and the dissolution of the Union might not be as crazy an idea as it sounds.
Don’t forget, both a hard Brexit and dissolution of the Union might be inevitable already. Westminster could be looking at the worst of both worlds… a hard and icy Brexit and Scottish Independence in Europe.
On another note. Why is Elgin the only town in Caledonia having a street party:
This will be the same English Toffs that nearly voted for Brexit in that ward….sad very sad..
Country of Birth (C 2011)
Scotland 17,931
UK (other)England 3,537
EU 1,141
Other country 519
Road Closure
Road
Reidhaven Street, Elgin
Details
From Junction Alma Place To Junction Moray Street
Start Date
20 May, 2018
End Date
20 May, 2018
General Information
From 13:00Hrs Until 23:00Hrs
Due To Residents Street Party To Celebrate The Royal Wedding
Drivers To Utilise Adjacent Streets
I skipped through the film quick as possible, interesting to see again. ‘We love you’, don’t leave us’ yada yada yada, bla bla bla.
Not surprised at results of the poll, quite opposite to the faux sentiment of the film, my family and friends ridiculed and argued that Scotland was just too daft and wanted a ‘utopia’ and ‘what about the oil?’. ‘I don’t like that Alex Salmond mind?’, me, why? They couldn’t answer.
The media did a great job of demonising those who wanted independence and most of all the leader of the SNP at that time, while bombarding Scotland with faux ‘love’ they were bombarding England with more sublimal messages of ‘too stupid, they will be ruined without our money and take us down with them’.
Scotland is being really selfish, what about us?
Scotland doesn’t care about us and look what we have done for you all these years Scotland!!! You would be nothing without us how dare you want to leave! You are no better than us and if we have a tory austerity crazed corrupt government you bloody well put up with it as well!
The myth that England, or rUK subsidises Scotland carries on today. The idea that many people south of the border would be happy to be rid of Scotland, will frighten the horses, but the faux ‘love’ was weird because as far as I could see, there was a certain level of animosity towards Scotland in 2014, all stoked up by the media. Hmmm.
They will use every trick in the book next time as well.
O/T
Scotland look out
https://twitter.com/CarolineLucas/status/997049143595032576
@K1 11.06
You asked about celebs getting paid for that video, well It was suggested to David Beckham that he should get involved in the ‘lovebombing’ as a way to increase his chances of a knighthood. See the Daily Wail article on Beckham’s annoyance at not getting one in February 2017
‘The following year Oliveira urged him to intervene in the Scottish independence debate because ‘clearly the right thing is that we stay together due to our history and because we are stronger’.
He advised Beckham: ‘I also think your support will play well with establishment and in turn help your knighthood.’ He replied: ‘Ok let’s do it.’’
Simon Oliveira was on the Honours committee I believe.
So I would guess yes some were paid.
YesScotland, YesEngland, YesIreland …. everyone get an amicable solution and everyone does their own thing.
That doesn’t mean we can’t be besties in the future.
Nana says
Fracking. First reply to that is very interesting….
” Búho Oscuro
@SammyScottDavis
Replying to @CarolineLucas
The UK Government is scared stiff that Scotland is about to bugger off. If that happens, the UK’s balance of payments which is already in a mess, will go bottoms up because rUK has few natural resources (whatever your views on those are) that would interest outside investors.”
… this very true. England will probably be forced to turn to fracking when she parts ways with Scotland.
The other issue is of course, a Brexited UK is going to be on a shoogly peg even with Scotland. WM might be planning to use their grabbed environmental powers to override Holyrood objections to fracking here too! We need to depart this Union, soon.
@galamcennalath
Powers over the environment included in the power grab
Just spotted this as well
Latest UK newspaper circulation figures out, with % year
https://twitter.com/MarkDiStef/status/997075908572930050
The funny thing is, the right-wing press in England foment this anti-Scottish feeling but the establishment know England is bankrupt without us.
I sampled this attitude while visiting Lipari off Sicily four years ago. It’s volcanic so you often get wafts of rotten egg smell. As we walked up the jetty from the boat, this wee English Gammon Man guy in a semmit and shorts/white socks and sandals combo said loudly, “What a bloody stink. If I’d wanted this, I’d have gone to Scotland!” (if you remember the Monty Python Dinsdale character, remove the knotted hankie and that’s him.)
Anyhow, the nice Geordie family we’d been talking to looked really embarrassed but I just said you get village idiots everywhere, even on holiday.
Mrs TC says I could glumsh and glower for Scotland, so that’s exactly what I did. I sat at the table next to him for lunch and gave him the treatment for about an hour.
Childish but fun.
Feel the Lurve, Poindexter.
At least we can luxuriate in the comfort of knowing that Trinny and Susanna, Eddie Izzard, Dan Snow and A J Rowling would vote for us to stay.
Presumably.
Greannach
Not sure if that is a given any more. Dan Snow certainly would still be Stay. JK Rowling was very unhappy about Brexit and I think Eddie might have a similar position…I confess I don’t know who the other two are to comment on how they might feel.
Interesting to note that many of those ‘celebs’ would now advocate Scotland leaving the UK due to the mess that Brexit is. Tony Robinson has tweeted a few times that he now understands how important it is that Scotland get to make her own choices and should not be forced to pull out of EU simply because some ‘mad Englishman’ choose that option! He now sees independence as the way forward for Scotland.
So things have changed for even some of those supporters… Thankfully. I like Tony. He’s clever, he’s a natural ‘teacher’ about history and I hated that some of the progs he did were tainted by his attitude of ‘there’s no good reason for indy’, toward Scotland. Hopefully I can view his historical pieces with a little more enthusiasm again.
Big Jock: Why is Elgin having the only wedding street party? I believe I saw an article on Twitter last week – it was cancelled due to – LACK OF INTEREST. They couldn’t sell the tickets. Oh dear… How awful. LOL!
They don’t get that it’s not about them, but about how they want or want to allow their country to be governed. Most Scots are ok, as are most English and Americans, to take three examples. But would I want Scotland to be managed in the way America is with rampant inequality, all too regular mass shootings, a health care system that regularly bankrupts people who become seriously ill, to mention a few ways in which that country is managed. No. Does that mean that this means it’s a personal dislike of all Americans. No again.
Its the same with England. It seems to want or be happy to allow England to be managed in a way that will quite likely head down the American health privatisation, anti-immigrant, pro-fracking & pro-GM route, something that most Scots do not want. But the fundamental disagreement is about their choice or acceptance of a governance dogma in England or America and not a personal verdict on the public there. Of course the msm want to try to make it seem that the differences in what people want are personal rather than governmental. Forget all the personal nonsense. It’s about how a nation is governed. That’s all.
Big Jock
If the Elgin party has been cancelled then shame for the English residents of Moray, as ironically Harry is the only English member of the royals (paternity reasons), the rest being German/Greek.
By taking a step back, it is possible to see that within England it is a minority ruling the great majority.
The English Establishment controls Government and Parliament, the BBC, the Press, the Institutions.
Soak the population with propaganda, and Bingo! Control.
But having swallowed Cameron’s EU referendum pill, England, sick with Austerity, has become even more unwell.
The people are even more unhappy and are now very divided – and impatient, as well as angry.
A little more pressure, a little more time, and the rumblings of English Nationalism will turn to an earthquake.
And it has a name.
Revolution.
There can be no healthy prosperous future for England as long as the Establishment remains in control.
Free England. Free Wales. Free Scotland. Free NI.
Ian (2-42pm) – soons lik yurr backin aff, fae thae Sassenach erses wahntin yoan Scoats erses tae beatit.
Roall oan, thoan Scoattish Independence baw.
In Scotland you can be Scottish Muslim, Scottish Sikh, Scottish Jew, Scottish Italian etc in England you have to be British-, not English-. I ask why the difference?
Is it because to be English you have to compromise too much of your ethnic identity.
The history of the Scots, Welsh and Irish involvement with Britishness eg North Brit, West Brit etc is suggestive.
Love English culture but it is at times quite unyielding.
I think we should have that chief reporter Leaskie down to England to find out why.
The problem I have is the Scots have been brought up from birth to think they could not run their country. It’s OK complaining about English attitudes but when it comes down to it the Scots are just too scared to go alone. May knows this the referendum proved it. The SNP can stamp and howel but Westminster will rule..Sorry but it’s the fact.
O/T
BREAKING: Taoiseach Leo Varadkar says that the British Prime Minister Theresa May shd table a new proposal on the future customs relationship between the EU & UK within the next 2 wks, hints it cd see continued alignment btwn whole of UK and EU on customs into the future
https://twitter.com/tconnellyRTE/status/997123055011934208
UK NI ‘backstop’ proposal problematic on many levels – a short thread.
https://twitter.com/KirstyS_Hughes/status/997100021819498496
Wife works for an estate agent. She says around 95% of the enquiries about houses they have for sale are from English folk wanting to move here. Vast majority of the purchases are made by the same.
Donald Bruce (3-42pm) – wull stomp in howl awricht. Whin wurr free, ah yoan beast in Lunin.
Urr thae Psilocybe semilanceata, oot ahreddae?
You’re totally wrong Rev…
They’re monkeys on Gibraltar, (albeit without tails), not “apes”.
Apes are confined to warmer climates like those at Westminster, particularly during PMQs…
https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1191/7384/products/BANKSY_CHIMPS_MONKEY_PARLIAMENT_HOUSE_OF_COMMONS_WESTMINSTER_WALL_ART.png?v=1519562818
Every time you turn on the telly it’s royal wedding time
I don’t particularly care about the royals one way or another if they weren’t there I wouldn’t miss them, but the English really like them and that’s OK, but, I do feel sorry for the lassie Meghan Markle, she’s got herself hooked up with probably the most racist family on earth and a big racist country to live in and she doesn’t seem to have cottoned on to it and when she gets pregnant the vile press of the country she’s hooked up with will fill the papers with their speculation as to whether the lassies baby will be black with frizzy ginger hair or the other way round and I’d put money on the fact they’re running a book on it right now and rubbing their wee rotten hands at the prospect of filling their papers with stupidity for the idiots to start tweeting the filth
Maybe they’ll do the sensible thing and move countries for their own sanity, who would’ve thought America would be thought of as less racist than England
Nana says:
Only four possibilities
1) cancel Brexit
2) whole UK stays in regulatory alignment with the EU forever
3) a wet border in the Irish Sea
4) crash out and be in breach of international treaties over Ireland
There are no others which aren’t wishful and magical thinking.
As Kirsty points out, for Ireland the solution is not just customs union, the north must stay in regulatory alignment indefinitely.
Why are the Tories being allowed to drift on, unchallenged by the media, regarding the simple facts of the situation?
It’s a charade and the media are being compliant.
Call Kaye
Your police are shite
Your nurses are shite
Your teachers are shite
And your shite too
Your so shite we would be happy to see you go
Ha ha ha
Don’t do twitter so could somebody tell Leask (of the SH @ H and every other publication) that tonight on TCM they are showing All The Presidents Men.
He will get a lesson on how proper investigative journalists ply their trade rather than the cut and paste crap that Leask produces.
I fear Ms Rowling may have to amend her plea:
‘But my guess is that if we vote to stay, we will be in the heady position of the spouse who looked like walking out, but decided to give things one last go. You agreed then he locked the door, refused you a key, told you that you could have no input into decisions he considers in his sphere only and you will do as you are told because he is 20st and you are only 6st.’
Rabid britnats in Scotland and the north of Ireland are desperate for England to continue ruling over them yet the English would dump them at the drop of a hat. Glaikit.
You forget about the generous vow, lots of ships to build and…..things.
And! the Royal wedding…now you wont get that with independence will you.
O/T, But related.
Just took stuff to local charity shop in my SNP very strong bag, 😉 guy working there said great bag, cos I wnated it back! He is cool guy from London, been in Scotland for 8 years, says, loads of people he knows are moving up to Scotland, and some who had never stepped foot in Scotland, visited recently. They said to him, ‘oh yes we see what you mean, we are coming to live in Scotland’!
So, how do we square that circle, because I am seeing lots young folk from England coming to live here as well. Who in their right mind wouldn’t want an NHS that’s not privatised, a good bus service, not privatised, water, not privatised and prescriptions free and tuition free, and lots of outdoor space, well at the moment!
Just yesterday, had an ad come up on twitter for er, WaterUK. yep, it’s a website for all those private companies telling people how cheap their water is and how wonderful it all is.
Except lots comments from people in England saying their bills are extortionate! Look it up, also ‘British Water’ and Working4water.org.uk.
Looked up M.Gove speech govuk site, ‘a water industry that works for everyone’. He applauds the privatisation while pointing out the flaws and scheming and non payment of tax of some of the companies. For some bizarre reason though, he says this; ‘The late media tycoon Lord Thomson once said of ITV franchises, like Scottish Television, when they were effective advertising monopolies, that they were a licence to print money’. Trying to make some kind of analogy?
So if you are residing in England, the ‘UK’ is definitely a ‘nation’, of course. This is where devolution doesn’t work and England would be better off being independent, then everyone knows where they are and where they stand. 🙂
Phew!
No SNP rep on BBC Question Time again to-night. That makes One out of last 110 panelists (episode venues outside Scotland).
Normal fairness goes when Britannia waives the rules.
@Sinky:5.25
Interesting not just the panel, any time there is an SNP rep or a Q pertaining to Scotland the audience comes pre packed with howling frothers of the D Fail variety.
Don’t watch, don’t pay the propaganda tax!
Above, interesting should read interestingly.
Sorry o/t and not really wishing to campaign today.
But this just out (and apologies for link on BBC):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-44152343
Neil Hamilton, AM, Leader of Welsh UKIP, putsched.
The deluded unionists up here will continue to cling onto Mother England like a child who is far too old clings to their mother’s breast. Unrequited love is a powerful thing.
This is a poll that I’ve wanted to see for a very long time indeed, and it confirms my suspicions exactly.
This result needs to be got out to all PSBs everywhere, together with its obvious implication: you may still cling to your fond illusion that you’re a “valued equal”, whereas in fact in the minds of our southern cousins it’s “England first” (and second, and last) all the way.
Ditching us is not the only Brexit consequence that will hurt our neighbours economically, but who are we to disillusion them over that tiny detail if the media won’t? =grin=
Time to allow them to plough their own solitary furrow, and gracefully wish them well as they do.
All we ask of them is to allow us the same courtesy in return.
How disappointed I was on clicking on the BBC map of the UK showing how Labour and Tory votes are on the move. It’s all about London and SE of England with a brief foray into the English midlands.
So, yes, the state broadcaster already behaves as if we don’t exist in the “UK”. To the BBC the UK = England. It’s a short step from there to complete independence in reality.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-politics-44155800/uk-political-map-tory-and-labour-voters-on-the-move
Gina Miller’s assessment of where the Tories are now with Brexit is spot on, I would say ….
http://archive.is/gKj1N
” So the clock keeps ticking, and the Brextremists carry on playing out their comic opera, while life in the real world continues. “
Went on to a link of the daily hate provided by thpnr I think the other day re LCM decision , checked out comments OMG Nicola should double her security , meindevon was commenting and trying hard to educate the masses to no avail ( thanks meindevon ) , the denigration and hatred being directed at Scots and Nicola particularly was literally palpable
With most comments demanding that the wee Scots cooncil should be ignored and disbanded wae the shitty building being demolished
What I found most unfathomable and disgusting was the Scots agreeing that these nutjobs were right , Nicola was destroying Scotland , yet they were ignoring the denigration , personal abuse and outright hatred for Scotland and the Scots that was being spouted by venomous , ignorant ,imbecilic exceptionalists , these so called Scots have no integrity or pride in themselves or their country , the CRINGE is strong
I am well aware that not all english people feel the same but there were 3400 comments with at least 3000 of them being abusive , ho hum onward to independence
Quite appropriate for this thread & article. Click on the link to this old WOS article from January 2014, scroll down to page 19, Chapter 1, ‘TO OUR ENGLISH BROTHER’. http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/ToOurEnglishBrother.pdf
https://wingsoverscotland.com/to-our-english-brother/
Artyhetty says
“He is cool guy from London, been in Scotland for 8 years, says, loads of people he knows are moving up to Scotland, and some who had never stepped foot in Scotland, visited recently. They said to him, ‘oh yes we see what you mean, we are coming to live in Scotland’!”
We are used to thinking that a large number of people from England moving to Scotland is a problem in an Indyref as most tend to vote against independence. But we might be seeing a new type of English immigrant now, one that is moving to escape the high water bills, bedroom tax, tuition fees, prescription charges etc. If they feel sure Scotland’s ability to continue with these progressive policies is under serious threat after Brexit without independence, their votes for Yes could be a game changer.
@Alba 46
Woodward and the then Washington Post Editor Ben Bradlee had been members of The Office of Naval Intelligence,
The Office of Naval Intelligence is the oldest member of the United States Intelligence Community,
Associate Director of Federal Bureau of Investigation Mark Felt was Deep Throat,
the removal of Nixon had little to do with great journalism,
it was an operation by the Intelligence Services of America to replace one President for one more controllable.
Talk about Union Jackery.
Did anyone see the humungus Union Jack on space cadet Colonel Tim Peake’s uniform on the STV 6pm news programme?
It almost blinded me.
@twathater 6.16
Thanks for the mention. I don’t know why I bother but I hope if even one person maybe looks further than the MSM for info it might help.
The absolute hatred was summed up by one commenter which I reported and I think it was removed who actually said Sturgeon needs shooting. I thought I had copied it but I’m out and about at the mo and can’t find it, damn. I usually screenshot these comments.
Thanks Meindevon, I recall that article about Beckham…also recall thinking what an awful greedy vain guy he was after reading it. And yes I suspect a few were paid for their input. They’ll be hard pushed to pull this sort of nonsense off next time around as others have mentioned.
—————————————
England’s a foreign country, many there never see it from the other side of the coin, they are the ‘judgers’ of other people’s cultures and are incapable of self reflection. So brainwashed by their ‘betters’ to believe that that they are ‘subject’s and very proud they are of that too. Strange folk voting to remain ‘loyal subjects’, living in a made up past written from the point of view of their masters. And then voting to go back in time to that fantasy world…were they will be even worse off than they were. Bizarre.
The result doesn’t surprise me in the slightest.
Why would they care if we stay or go….
The ordinary English voter’s see no benefits from the Union any more than we do!
Scottish resources don’t get shared out with them either.
So when those voter’s think we are standing in the way of what they want to do…… Its obvious to them that we should just go.
Just as it’s obvious to us that when we cannot implement our decisions because they are standing in our way,that we need to stop living under the old Treaty arrangements and go our own way.
But the fact that they can see us leaving the Union,means that the don’t buy this One Nation Birthday Caird Pish either.
Re Brexit.
This just in regarding the EU’s position on trade with the USA.
Presumably Westminster’s postbrexit position will be “Which part of the table do you wish me to bend over?”
http://archive.is/hjE9y
Alternative take: many leave voters think the Union is more important than Brexit.
I say,let them down south have their brexit,and we can be independent. Everyone will be better off.
@galamcennalath
Gina Miller certainly seems to be on the right track. Latest news.
EU Brushes Off May’s Pitch for Customs Plan Guarantees
Bloomberg
http://archive.li/wGhaQ
Theresa May struggles to rally support among EU leaders for new customs plan
The Guardian
http://archive.li/NFAqi
@Luigi
you are so right. It could be English nationalism that ends the Union – and I’d be happy about that. Just get rid of us Scots in a peaceful manner.
I tell you if Brexit goes tits up for them there’s going to be trouble down south and I don’t wish that on them.
Your comments were so good Luigi I will repost in case some have missed them
Luigi says:
17 May, 2018 at 12:05 pm
The Achilles heal of UK plc is English Nationalism. A very large, dangerous elephant in the room and an existential threat to the union (probably even more so than Scotland).
The British establishment has been struggling to keep a cap on this since devolution, when the scots and welsh got their own parliaments (and the English felt (wrongly) short-changed). They tried to set up pretend regional English parliaments but the people didn’t buy into it. They tried the parliaments, they tried “Cool Britannia” and now they are trying a mass Labelling and re-writing of British (and English) history. Doomed to failure. The real Englanders won’t settle now. They don’t really care about Britain, Scotland or the union. They just care about their own identity.
The British establishment tries to play identity politics with the masses, but the problem is that English (and Scottish) nationalism will always trump British nationalism. And whilst they may contain the former (for a while), they will struggle big time with the latter.
With BREXIT, English nationalism has burst into the national consciousness south of the border – and it ain’t going away. The constitutional can has been opened and the worms are already out. IMO English nationalism will play a massive part in the final breakup of the union. Not sure how, exactly, but it will be decisive.
The British Establishment has perfected the art of getting the “plebs”, whom it normally ignores and expoits, on their side with a frenzy whenever required to protect its interests.
The wolves in sheep’s clothing like the Labour party, The Guardian and The Mirror, are firmly embedded in the Establishment.
I doubt that Scotland will ever become independent, at least not for the next 622 years.
The most disgraceful political thing that has happened to Scotland since it was sold 311 years ago has been the Scottish First Minister from an independence supporting party standing “shoulder to shoulder” with Saint Theresa and the “ghastly” Boris Johnson as they declared war on Russia after a false flag operation.
Luigi …. 12-05pm
A very good point well made.
Charles says:
17 May, 2018 at 12:48 pm
“thanks for reminding us just how detestable J K Rowling is.”
She is the most ungrateful, nasty and anti-Scotland immigrant Scotland has had in her entire history, in my humble opinion.
Scotspine says:
17 May, 2018 at 3:47 pm
“Wife works for an estate agent. She says around 95% of the enquiries about houses they have for sale are from English folk wanting to move here. Vast majority of the purchases are made by the same”
And 99% of them would vote No in any independence referendum.
It is the ultimate in stupidity to give English settlers the right to vote in a referendum on Scottish independence from England, in my humble opinion.
So, do the English then, identify the British of Gibraltar as essentially English?
I’d imagine it’s is that, or they don’t see Scots and Irish as quite so foreign as the Spanish.
Either way they have a different type of nationalism than Scots.
OT Been busy in the garden so missed FMQs. Was anyone brave enough to ask ‘Can the First Minister confirm that the Grenfell Flat’s cladding material is not used in the construction of baby boxes?’
Also heard the bride’s father won’t be present for the RW, so that’s neither then.
Most interesting! One might ask further regional questions. I am pretty sure that Liverpool/merseyside and Greater Manchester would happily migrate over the Irish Sea or N of the border than stay in an ‘England’ from which they have become increasingly divorced over the last 4-5 decades.
Somebody posts on WOS, most evenings between 8 and midnight.
Their comments really depress me, being uutter cringeworthy examples of the ‘Scottish cringe’. What is the purpose of their comments? Is it to depress anyone who reads WOS? Will that depression change us from indy supporters to union supporters?
GTF!
You were sussed a long time ago and, if you want to fight against the flood for independence, feel free to type your anti-SNP and anti-indy $h!† every evening – after all, this is an open forum and we accept that some peeps will type gibberin’ $h!†, coz of their ignorance of the real world.
Their blinkers disallow them from taking on alternative views that conflict with their own beliefs, believed from whatever sources.
It’s a shame that some people are so ‘one track’.
Excellent question Rev, open to many interpretations, but should make people think. And the poll data is the right way around in all three questions.
I like it 🙂
poll and Rev got the full works in The National of course:
http://thenational.scot/news/16232803.English_voters_would_rather_sacrifice_Scotland_than_Gibraltar_for_Brexit/
a good symbiosis
If I thought Scotland was filled with self-centred miserablist music-hall caricatures like our resident evening fool, even I would vote “no” in IR2.
Thankfully, it’s so obviously farcical that no one (including you, dear first-time visitor) could possibly believe it. Not sure then why he even bothers.
@louis.b.argyll
I think it’s more to do with the last vestiges of empire, having these colonies proves they are still a world power, in their head anyway. Who can forget the Spanish Armada, I’m sure I was taught about it at school as if it was Scottish history.
They believe they subsidise Scotland, would be wealthy without us and would dearly love to be shot of NI (shame for those in DUP who are so desperate to remain part of UK).
Must confess, have never seen that ‘Let’s Stay Together’ video before now. Stills from it, aye, but not the whole thing.
Toe-curlingly cruddy shite from start to finish, but it would be interesting to find out how effective it was. No doubt there were/are outfits similar to Cambridge Analytica involved with this and other BTUKOK shite who have data on whose buttons were reached, and they’ll know how to tweak it all as and when we get a date for indy2.
One tiny consolation, perhaps, is that Eddie ‘Sincere’ Izzard certainly won’t be back on Scottish streets – not by popular demand at any rate.
yesindyref2 @ 21:56,
The poll findings will also, of course, feature strongly in all the other “news” papers tomorrow, and the BBC as conscientious national broadcaster will take pains to enlighten the whole of the UK as to what England truly thinks of its eminently-disposable northern colony.
Won’t they all?
Oh, and there goes another pig across the evening sky. (There seem to have been quite a lot of them around today.)
Its the ‘elephant in the room’ the English in Scotland.
It’s been done a lot on here, but we really need to have a referendum in the next 5-10 years or we’ll never win one. Around 50k if not more English move to Scotland every year, of course some will vote Yes in a potential referendum but the vast majority will not. No doubt I’m being a bigot for bringing this up though! Some may well be convinced, but many won’t and its a emotional issue (about remaining British, for them) just like it is for many of us Yessers on the other side. And it really does fucking craw, that a new resident has the right to vote something so evocative straight away. I honestly think if I was ever given a referendum/vital vote in a country I just moved to (I would abstain) or maybe not if I was living in Belfast and a Irish unity ref came up, I’d vote for Irish unity 😉 but yeah, in theory I would 🙂
Scotland will/is in the process of being a very nice place to retire too after making big London and further beyond bucks. No industry, lack of job opportunities outwith the bigger cities/towns, wonderful scenery – and can’t blame people for retiring to Scotland. We will end up like a large but bonny early-retirement country.
Fracking now “don’t need no steenking” planning permission …
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5741445/Ministers-condemned-making-fracking-easy-building-conservatory.html
– imagine my shock. (The comments are open and un-moderated if any vile cybernats want to spew a little vitriol there.)
Tories, predictable as atomic clocks.
Interestingly (alarmingly) I suppose if INEOS takes its “lawfare” against SG all the way to the UK Supreme court, it can then win by default, due to this new thing.
Tories aren’t as smart as they think they are – maybe not thought this through – these pricks all live out Chipping Norton way – what if a gang of angry Scots bought up small plots of land next to their houses? Fun times for all – its shit when actions have consequences.
They use hyrdofluoric acid in fracking, which can also dissolve human bodies. I add that piece of information for no reason whatsoever.
The English media acts as if we don`t exist anyway and by way of example take this royal wedding crap that’s about to saturate us on Saturday and for months to come.
I was watching the EBC today and they briefly interviewed “celebrities“ on their thoughts on the forthcoming wedding and of course responded with the usual gushings of syrup but surprise surprise they were all English.It was the same out talking to the public asking their views.
I am a republican but if I were not how could I relate to Prince Harry, he was born in England, has an English accent , lives in England , educated in England and almost certainly supports England in international sports. The Royal family is in effect an English institution and is being projected as such overseas as they love the attention and adoration.
When people in England think of Scotland and they rarely do, they think of our government as some incompetent council and our country as a colony that will soon be absorbed into an northern English county.
Good luck Harry but I don`t` want or need your family and the financial support it costs me.
Faltdubh
Quite agree. I believe it was the English vote and the EU nationals who were terrorised into voting no by threats of Scotland leaving the EU.
It was a mistake letting anyone vote in the `14 referendum and next time their should be a ten year residency clause before being eligible to vote.
Faltdubh @ 22:18:
Oh, it truly has, and done to death too, so let’s not go there again now please.
There is a potential issue, and it also applies to people from dodgy parts of the world buying real estate as relatively safe ways of stashing away their loot (ill-gotten or otherwise), but it’s not on any timescale that should concern us over IR2. (Not unless the Pete Wishartites have their way, of course. =laugh=)
What this thread is about is something else: what the English in England think about us. And how we had all better understand it instead of living in cosy delusions about “togetherness” and “valued equals”.
We didn’t win the 2014 referendum because not enough Scots voted YES…
The fact of the matter is that most of the English in Scotland are retired people and voted in a substantial majority NO. So did a significant majority of our own retired folk.
Many English actually voted YES and many more are now inclined to.
Many English folk marched with us through Glasgow.
Our target is to get the English who come to live here to vote YES,not to prevent them from voting.
I have more concern about the number of folk who haven’t lived here for years and have no intention of coming back who got postal votes for the referendum.
@RJS
Herald dragged up a survey from – March. Whatarag.
Slightly O/T
If by some, fairly major, miracle the UK and EU negotiators manage to arrive at some form of agreement – custom agreement of some sort for example – by October. This agreement then has to be ratified by each of the EU member countries – a six month process to be completed by March 2019.
What happens if one, or some of the EU members do not ratify the agreement? Which is a possibility since some members may not be too well disposed to the UK – can’t think why – and may feel the terms are too generous considering the disruption the UK has caused.
Is that effectively a veto of any proposed agreement? Does that then mean the UK is out of the EU without a deal?
Not seen much, if any, discussion of this possible scenario and its consequences.
QT Diane Abbott must hiv a invitation fae the DUP to visit Norn Ireland oan the 12th July , aw she needs noo is the flute she’s goat the jaikit lol .
Legerwood, as you day above, there could be opposition from any of the 27 EU nations etc..
But this is what the EU is good at, internal trade-offs, one partners advantage to another’s cost is harmonised out of existence, in theory. But the UK, being ‘out’ changes the perceived balance.
Just watched the Alex Salmond Show all about the Europe deal and enlightening it was too.
I have no idea what either the UK government will do or the EU for that matter.
I just know we need to get out of this dysfunctional union.
‘Max Fac’ eh? Technophile I may be, but this is nonsense. Reminds me of the cosmetic company Max Factor, quite appropriate really since it seems to be something desperate politicos might ‘make up’ on the hoof.
That in turn reminds me of the old physicist’s gag, Max Factor = Planck’s Constant. Although in this case ‘Constant Planks’ might be more accurate.
Who knew, you knew… I reckon their Yes vote will increase with rage, the closer they and we get to the change.
Looking forward to the weekend.
Cairnstoon Saturday comin’ up and keep an aye out for the front cover of Sunday’s SH… many have seen the contents of their previous covers on the 6th & 13th May.
Let them show their colours on the 20th.
Eh’ve been writing some wee topical ditties recently that eh wiz gonna pit on twitter. Eh need a backdrop image that would mak space fir a wee bit o poetry (Eh ken you hate it Stu ya big jessie) but, eh am shite at art.
If anybody could mak a nice indy focused backdrop fir iz, wi a wee bit o space for the written word on it – eh would really appreciate it (thistles lions and saltire style). Eh’ve a few ideas aboot how eh want it to look and eh dinnae mind paying fir yir time.
If onybody could dae that fir iz, eh would be forever in yir debt. Giz a shout on aff topic if you have the skills iy.
Love and respect tae ah the wingers fir whaz like yiz? Eh nane iy. 🙂 😉
Scotland’s oil is propping up the pound.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
“Jim Rogers, chairman at Rogers Holdings, and Jane Foley, senior FX strategist at Rabobank, discuss the potential impact on the pound if Scotland leaves the U.K. post-Brexit. They speak with Bloomberg’s Francine Lacqua on “Bloomberg Surveillance.””
Ray Winstone -Anti-Scottish Independence signatory #12
“to be fair the Scottish economy has it’s strengths – it’s chief exports being oil.whiskey tartan and tramps”
David Starkey, Anti-Scottish Independence signatory #36
“If we decide to go down this route of having an English National day that means we become a feeble little country just like the Scots….We do not make a great deal about Skakespeare like the Scots do about that deeply provincial poet Burns and we do not have national music like the awful bagpipe”
Links
https://www.snp.org/almost_72_500_affordable_homes_delivered
How safe should we all feel this week? The answer is Not Very, thanks to Donald Trump.
https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/997064267101818881
https://itisintruthnotforglory.wordpress.com/2018/05/17/just-not-credible/
Oil be dammed! Oil is back yet there is more – so much more
http://newsnet.scot/archive/oil-dammed-oil-back-yet-much/
http://indyref2.scot/bbc-scotland-snubbed-again-as-philip-hammond-becomes-latest-senior-tory-to-refuse-interview-request
http://ruthwishart.scot/blog/why-holyrood-got-it-right
https://peterabell.blog/2018/05/17/the-death-of-truth/
What? Is this true?
Wait a minute here. @GlasgowLife has helped organise a Trident-friendly **arms-fair** in Glasgow?
https://twitter.com/thoughtland/status/997161893273001984
https://drillordrop.com/2018/05/17/government-announces-plans-to-speed-up-fracking-decisions-in-england-detailed-reaction/
https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0517/964206-brexit-varadkar-may/
https://www.politico.eu/article/customs-union-leo-varadkar-no-brexit-deal-without-border-backstop-western-balkans-summit-sofia/
PM set to nominate 10 Tory peers in attempt to overcome Brexit defeats
http://archive.is/g3r7E
https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/05/17/nhs-admits-outsourcing-threatened-patients-but-responds-with-look-at-the-money-weve-saved/
Britain referred to European Court of Justice along with five other worst polluters
http://archive.is/N5Ha4
http://www.brexitshambles.com/were-vote-leave-mathematicians-physicists-and-computer-scientists-conned-too/
https://www.rt.com/business/426856-europe-to-ditch-us-dollar/
https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/video-catches-mcveys-misleading-claims-about-disability-job-stats/
https://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/opinion/brexit-turns-into-a-constitutional-crisis-in-britain/
Will not archive
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilyashton/esther-mcvey-betting-machines
MPs shun Liam Fox, the go-to man for hedonistic inertia
http://archive.is/VZN8s
http://www.politics.co.uk/comment-analysis/2018/05/17/child-poverty-is-being-baked-into-govt-policy
https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/thought-brexit-couldnt-get-any-more-farcical-the-story-of-the-european-patent-court-proves-you-wrong
The thought of public money paying for this wedding when people are actually hungry in this country is just something we couldn’t bear’
http://archive.is/HpgOh
Former Detective Jon Wedger is interviewed by anti child abuse campaigner Bill Maloney (himself a victim of uk government child abuse, as were his siblings). This video alerts the public to the intimidation and bullying of UK police whistleblowers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiRoX1Ljc5o&feature=youtu.be
Ulterior motive
https://glasgowcycleman.wordpress.com/2018/03/07/scotland-the-primest-of-prime-military-real-estate-in-nw-europe/
Persons allowed a vote in he next referendum should have a five year residency limit. No holiday homes should be included in this and no postal votes.
GMS on Radio Shortbread lead story on todays 0800 news – yes the fuckin royal wedding. BBC going into full royal wankfest mode -the sad, sycophantic, crawly and useless arseholes.
Starlaw
Re postal votes, without these how will many infirm, disabled, those who travel with work, have prebooked holidays or just have really busy lives vote? Should they be disenfranchised?
This postal vote fraud tinhattery is infantile, if there was any, it would be min9r and no both sides.
This regal shindig is getting loads more rainbow paint slabbered on it than any other royal bash before. Must be hiding lots of bad news.
mr thms says:
18 May, 2018 at 4:08 am
Scotland’s oil is propping up the pound.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/videos/2017-03-28/jim-rogers-asks-if-scotland-pushes-pound-to-0-80-video
“Jim Rogers, chairman at Rogers Holdings, and Jane Foley, senior FX strategist at Rabobank, discuss the potential impact on the pound if Scotland leaves the U.K. post-Brexit. They speak with Bloomberg’s Francine Lacqua on “Bloomberg Surveillance.””
What I love about the clip isn’t so much what is said, but the body language. Jim Rogers is so relaxed and nonchalant about the value of Scotland’s oil, but you’d think he’d just uttered some profane heresy going by the reaction he gets. “Oh sh#t!!! Jim’s not read the script!”
Yes dearie, Jim has read the script, but he knows the script is bo#*%cks and isn’t playing your games.
It isn’t a new clip, but it’s always struck me as such a good metaphor for the whole YES vs Unionism respective doctrines.
Carol Smillie’s oan the long walk at windsor castle , ah wished she wiz oan the long walk oan ah short pier at Loch Lomond she’ll be chittering no chattering .
I hope the Rev has asked a question in his poll about support for Brexit. I’ve not seen a single poll asking that since the referendum almost two years ago. Have I missed any?
Davidson nonsense claims about Scottish education system. In the rest of the UK under the Tories the subject choice is limited. £9000 fees. Now they are introducing more Grammar schools and selection. Education funding has been cut by the Tories.
Nicola and the SNPstanding up for Scotland. The SNP Gov has improved Scotland. Independence support increasing. The Westminster lack lustre, lame duck Gov. Going down the tubes.
Royal wedding costing £Millions whenvulnerable people are being sanctioned and starved. Hinkley Point, HS2, Trident a waste of £Billions. The Unionists Parties the only ones in the world supporting nuclear. If Corbyn cared he would step aside. Brexit is a disaster. Tanking the UK Economy.
Wow. That leaves me feeling incredibly sad.
It has never been quantified before.
I did like to think that the vast majority of folk in England felt well towards the folk of Scotland. And to the folk of North of Ireland.
And that the ugly voices were few and far between.
To me, Scotland always had a problem with the ruling elite, now mostly residing in the lower and upper Houses of Westminster. That should probably also be the case for the folk of England too.
Scotland coming so close to independence probably hurt feelings over the border. So really, it’s silly of me to expect otherwise.
But you know what, how exciting for the folk of England, if this is what they really feel they need, to be independent of the whole of Europe and Scotland and the North of Ireland and maybe even Wales, then how great would it be for England to be truly independent.
To cut all the apron ties. Stand on their own two feet. And be England, just England.
Find that illusive identity, nurture it and grow their own way.
I wish the good folk of England well and all the good luck they might need.
It is up to the people in Scotland to vote. At the last GE 1/2million did not vote letting the Tories in. The unionists illegally changed the electoral system in Scotland. 1st Choice SNP votes go in the bins. The 3rd rate rejects gang up to keep the SNP out of power. The Aberdeen City unionists are a disgrace. Unionists have got the City into £1.2Billion of debt. Building monstrosity no one wanted. Empty shops and hotels. Interest £7Million a year for 30 years. £200Million. Over 100 teachers short. Cuts to essential services. £300Million wasted on a Conference Centre with no business case. They refused a Gift of £80million to pedestrianise the City. The Art Gallery shut for years. On a renovation project they do not have money to fund and no one wanted.
Nine Labour members ruining the City. Kept in power by a two jobs Tory. ACC not much better. They just rejected a plan for a new HQ’s. A £Billion HQ’s will be retained for cut price sandwiches for unionist councillors. Tory who break lobbying rules to line their own pockets. Tory landowners not paying their council tax. May’s mate ruining the education system. Fraud and corruption. Tory high taxes ruling the Oil sector. Losing £Billions and thousands of jobs in Scotland.
And hey there Rev Stu,
Those are incredibly important figures to have gathered (even though the reading of them smarts a bit, shouldn’t be surprised but hey, the folk of England are entitled to their feelings and opinions too)
These are the questions others would not have asked.
How on Earth does this make Scotland’s unionists feel! Those folk are going to need compassion and understanding. Much as anyone might be gritting their teeth at them right now, I really do mean that.
Indy Scotland will need to compassionate.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/scot2.scot/
Noo sumbudy’s taking the piss an ah know who it is .
image-572649749784676 This ah meant lol
Nana
Loved that link to the cynical assessment of Liam Fox
” Fox would take it as a personal failure, a resignation matter even, were he ever to agree a trade deal ”
3rd time lucky .https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=776060305933410&set=a.538647773007999.1073741829.100005883434563&type=3&theater
Am late am late fur ah very important date lol.
Oh Dear! Oh Dear! Oh Dear! Tragedy for the North British Yoon-stream. The Hootsmon’s “splash” this morning, about Wee Eck returning to mainstream politics for the Indy2 campaign has got the usual suspects boiling with rage.
Most of the btl comments are priceless.
When we do win Indy2, Wee Willie Rennie’s warnings about the Scottish NHS’ mental health section being over-whelmed really will come true, that lot will go ape-shit and will definitely require treatment.
They are already going doo-lali at Eck, and Nicola hasn’t even fired the starting pistol yet. This will be fun.
Gfaetheblock at 8.08
“This postal vote fraud tinhattery is infantile, if there was any, it would be min9r and no both sides”
You obviously know very little about the mechanics of the postal vote to which the establishment has total access and which has been described in the UK as “a recipe for large scale fraud” by the EC in 2009.
How about this,from a judge……..
“Postal voting is ‘wide open to fraud’ and should be scrapped in its current form, a top judge warned last night.
Judge Richard Mawrey, who sits in judgment on election fraud cases, said ballot-rigging was now a ‘probability’ in some parts of Britain due to the extension of postal voting.
Mr Mawrey, a deputy high court judge, said the introduction of ‘on demand’ postal voting had failed to boost turnout. But he warned it had made Britain’s electoral system vulnerable to fraud on ‘an industrial scale’.”
I’ve met nobody yet who can explain how Argyll and Bute (and four other Scottish constituencies) achieved a 97% take up of postal votes at the referendum. These figures are not in dispute but they are impossible to achieve (unless nobody died,went to hospital etc).
I remain gobsmacked by the naivety of many who seem to imagine a British state about to lose its major asset counldn’t do something like that.It’s the least they would do.
My one and only posting on the wedding.
Just in case anybody thinks the Queen is above the sort of arrogance displayed in the poll.
http://archive.is/aF4Df
The Sunday Herald will have the chance to make their front page photo 100% union jacks at Windsor, instead of just the 55% union jacks pic they had the day after the AUOB march.
Dave,
The bottom line on it for me is that nearly every poll which has asked ‘How did you vote for indyref1?’, including the Rev’s, has indicated that it was about 45:55.
We did lose, narrowly and based on a farago of lies.
We will win next time.
Panic besets the ranks of the unbelievers as Alex Salmond rears his head again posing a greater threat than North Koreas WMDs or Russias bears to the English dominated and loving it Unionists
He’ll make Sturgeon do it they’ll cry even though a minute ago she was too scared and even though she was poisonous and obsessed according to them
Front pages will vary between *Oh woe is Scotland* and *He’s a has been* but will it make any difference, of course it won’t, they’re terrified of Eck always have been, then they were terrified of Nicola, but together Eck and Nicola are the evil incarnate Nat twinned double headed fire breathing wraiths risen from the depths of hell to mutilate devour and raise Lucifers firy will upon the face of the earth
At least that’s probably what the Sunday Herald will say
I say meh it was bound to happen Eck loves a good laugh
I thought Carol Smiley was on our team?
Disclaimer: English, Remainer. I’d hate to see Scotland go, but I’d support its campaign to leave, to unshackle itself from the basket case England is becoming.
I’m beginning to suspect that this Brexit milarky is nothing more than a load of fantasy, fibs and racism; brought about by cads and bounders.
John in London.
Still Positive said at 12:23 am
“Just watched the Alex Salmond Show all about the Europe deal and enlightening it was too.
I have no idea what either the UK government will do or the EU for that matter.
I just know we need to get out of this dysfunctional union.”
Here it is:
https://tinyurl.com/y96wn2m5
27 minutes. 🙂
Dave mcewan hill
I am not saying postal votes are perfect, but when folk talk about removing it, they need to talk about how they replace it. To just scrap it would be hugely disenfranchising.
As far as I am aware, there is no evidence of fraud in indyref1, and surely the Yes and No sides are equally motivated. It is a bit exeptionalist to think one side is corrupt, but the other purist, whatever side of the debate you are on.
Never mind about the Falklands. Next time a question is needed about the tax haven dependencies.
Since I travel around a lot in the summer, staying overnights, and since the likes of lorry drivers often go away for 4 or 5 days, all year round, and the elections and referendums are on a Thursday, we all genuinely need postal votes. Few people can afford to take a whole week off work, just to vote, even if not effectu=ively self-employed, and as a YES voter, I’m not one of them – if it coincided with a trip that would be 1 less YES vote.
If more postal votes are being taken up, at least part of the reason is that people have to travel more these days, and stop over. Even MEPs, MPs and MSPs are in this category.
@Wavey Davey & @John
Good to hear honest views from the other side of the border. I hope you will post again.
Every time I read the JK Rowling quote, portraying Scotland as a battered spouse who ought to just suck it up, it makes me angry.