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Wings Over Scotland


Move over, Darling

Posted on May 14, 2013 by

When we’ve been asked on a couple of different occasions why we started Wings Over Scotland, we’ve always given the same reply – to ask (and thereby try to answer) the questions that the Scottish media was dismally failing to ask on our behalf. It would be hard to illustrate that failure with a better example than what happened yesterday.

uwl

We’re not even talking about the bog-standard factory-default Unionist bias that’s seen not a single newspaper today depicting the launch of “United With Labour” as a “split” in the anti-independence movement – after a year of leaping on every single policy difference or minor spat between members of the Yes campaign as evidence of “chaos” and “turmoil” – despite the news/comedy value of an organisation devoted to “unity” and “togetherness” breaking into splinter groups just months into its existence.

We refer to something much more fundamental – basic journalistic competence.

Every newspaper and online news site covered the launch in some depth. Scotland Tonight devoted most of last night’s edition to the event, including an interview with UWL’s (apparent) figurehead Gordon Brown by an uncharacteristically toothless Bernard Ponsonby. But none of them asked a single one of the questions that would have been scrawled right at the top of any modestly capable 20-year-old media-studies graduate’s clipboard. Staggeringly obvious questions like these:

1. Is Labour still part of the “Better Together” campaign?

2. If so, which personnel are attached to which campaign? Which one is Johann Lamont, say, in? Why wasn’t Alistair Darling, high-profile chairman of the No camp, present yesterday when every other senior Scottish Labour figure was?

(If everyone in Labour is working with both campaigns, what purpose does “United With Labour” serve? How can it disassociate the party from its “Better Together” allies if everyone in UWL is also working for BT?)

3. Is “United With Labour” a separate political body registered with the Electoral Commission? If so, who are its officers, and why doesn’t it have a web page, Facebook page or Twitter account? How can it be contacted?

(Readers can fill in their own “cost of a stamp”/”dialling code” joke here.)

4. Assuming the answer to (3) is “yes”, what is UWL’s legal status with regard to campaign expenditure? Will it be subject to the £834,000 limit for Labour, or the £150,000 limit for “other registered campaigners”?

5. How is any such expenditure by UWL to be funded? Will it receive money from “Better Together”, or are its costs being borne solely by the Labour Party? Is it accepting contributions from the public, and if so what address should they be sent to? Will any such donations be publicly declared?

We’ll spare you the other 495 questions. You get the idea. But every professional news journalist in Scotland should be hanging their head in shame this morning.

(We’ve asked some of these questions ourselves to the likes of Johann Lamont and Margaret Curran, but have received no response, nor do we expect to. Unlike the BBC, STV, Scotsman, Herald, Record, Sun et al, we didn’t have the opportunity of a face-to-face meeting with the participants at the event.)

The failure to treat the Yes and No sides with any sort of equality or balance is one we’re used to by now. But the absence of even a token pretence of proper scrutiny is an embarrassment not just to the journalism trade, but to Scotland as a country. If this is the best the nation’s proud fourth estate can offer, they should follow the apparent example of the “Better Together” chairman and step aside.

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  1. 23 04 14 16:37

    Untied with Labour | FreeScotland

80 to “Move over, Darling”

  1. Desimond says:

    Labour isnt working…alongside anybody else, public or professional.

  2. It does make you despair, at times, doesn’t it? 🙁

  3. Ray says:

    It seems United With Labour have an official Twitter account, so they must be for real! :/

  4. Luigi says:

    The MSM can either ignore or spin the BT split any way they want. Few will be fooled by this. The Scottish people will see right through this nonsense.

  5. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    That’s a really scary photo!

  6. Desimond says:

    How exhausting must it be to be someone like Margaret Curran…sitting there thinking “Oh What must I do for self preservation?” and helping with such schemes. Professional Cantankerousers like herself are in limbo wondering if a Ladyship would still be valid if indeed ever forthcoming..wondering is her gravy train safe?….could she get a job running Scottish Labour post Independence with folk like Jim Murphy battling against her or will the 2 Eds be willing to find her a safe English Labour seat in…err….hmm….there must be somewhere still safe….isnt there?

  7. Training Day says:

    If there is such a thing as a journalist with any integrity in Scotland they must be embarrassed by their peers. 
     
    I think I’ve detected the flaw in my argument..
     
    A good example this morning.. poor, wretched Gary Robertson on Good Morning Scotland blathering on – without a hint of irony or indeed shame – about the three ‘main parties’ and how they were polling in relation to UKIP.  That two of the ‘main parties’ are now a virtual irrelevance in Scotland (not to mention UKIP’s redundancy), and that Scotland has a majority government formed by a party which is not one of the ‘main parties’, didn’t trouble our Gary as he ploughed on with his London-bubble script..
     
     

  8. Tasmanian says:

    Is this a deliberate thing to allow unionists to spend more money on anti-independence propaganda? BWL’s own Ian Taylors might stay hidden for longer perhaps?

    Or perhaps to give a show of strength to unionism. “Unionism is definitely a good idea – look at how many separate organisations are campaigning to support it!”

  9. Macart says:

    But the absence of even a token pretence of proper scrutiny is an embarrassment not just to the journalism trade, but to Scotland as a country.
     
    Couldn’t agree more Rev. I’ve been shaking my head so much in sheer disbelief this morning I think I’ve given myself whiplash. If any member of the YES group has so much as broken wind against the SG in recent months, whether it be the Greens over windfarm policy or individuals over currency policy, the press have launched week long rift, tear, split stories. Labour effectively disband Better No and the effing silence is deafening.
     
    Simply unbelievable.

  10. bunter says:

    Had at least expected some sort of editorial view in the herald today regards yesterdays shenanigans, but NO, other than a bizarre take by dinwoodie re broons  comments on Enoch Powell  related to the coalition, its seems they have no view at all on yesterdays split.
    Pathetic comes to mind. We should all share the Revs article by any means and all and embarrass the whole rotten bunch.

  11. Desimond says:

    Caption Contest offering
    Brown “These fingers show my trips to Parliament this year”
    Curran “I wish i could make as much money as him!”
    Sarwar “Me too Margaret!”
    Johann” Think ah’ll have stovies tonight!”

  12. Jimbo says:

    Is this an attempt to distance themselves from what a Labour MP termed ‘Dirty Money’?

  13. Desimond says:

    Jimbo
    New Labour distance themselves from money…shurely shome mishtake?

  14. Jiggsbro says:

    That two of the ‘main parties’ are now a virtual irrelevance in Scotland (not to mention UKIP’s redundancy), and that Scotland has a majority government formed by a party which is not one of the ‘main parties’, didn’t trouble our Gary
     
    If he was referring to Westminster, then two of the parties are hardly irrelevant to Scotland, given that they form the coalition UK government which still has considerable relevance to Scotland, and the party which forms the majority at Holyrood is still not a major party at Westminster. Until we achieve independence, Westminster – and its main parties – will remain relevant (and more influence than Holyrood).

  15. bunter says:

    Oh and there is certainly a pattern with any NO campaign announcements or launches and how the media treat them. They are blindly parrotted far and wide as fact and given much gravitas,  given the big bang and impact that invariably they do not deserve. Then a few days later you get some low profile article by some journalist  giving some mealy mouthed retake, trying to give a veil of impartiality to their biased employer. This is how the herald operates 6 days a week then fobs off indy voters with its Sunday edition.
    At least the hootsman doesnt pretend to be other than a rabid unionist rag, and is somewhat more honest in that respect only, than the schizoid herald.

  16. Ericmac says:

    @jimbo No, they are not so principled.  This is ab attempt to distance themselves from the political mess in the South that is Tory / UKIP train crash and Milliband collateral damage.
     

  17. Ericmac says:

    ‘United Labour’ – Scottish Labour’s new improved spin together.  Does your laundry faster and brighter. Leaves no skid marks from corrupt donations.  Turns your skivvies out like new.  Lamont and Brown swear by it.  

  18. Training Day says:

    “If he was referring to Westminster, then two of the parties are hardly irrelevant to Scotland, given that they form the coalition UK government”

    They do indeed.  But that is by dint of the votes they received largely in the rest of the UK.  As you well know I was referring to these parties being virtually irrelevant electorally in both Scottish Westminster and Holyrood elections, a fact which highlights Scotland’s powerlessness in the face of a government imposed on it by these self-same ‘main’ parties.

  19. Richard Lucas says:

    Is Gordon playing Air Guitar?  The Three Stooges don’t look impressed. Seriously, the body language in that photo is bizarre.  Listeners to Call Kaye this morning were delighted to hear another part of the Broon Rehabilitation crash and burn, as caller after caller failed to toe the ‘Gordon is Great’ line, despite Kaye’s usual gambit of talking over the ‘Yes’ contributors.  The relief in her voice when the programme moved onto another topic was palpable.

  20. john Lyons says:

    If he was referring to Westminster, then two of the parties are hardly irrelevant to Scotland, given that they form the coalition UK government which still has considerable relevance to Scotland, and the party which forms the majority at Holyrood is still not a major party at Westminster. Until we achieve independence, Westminster – and its main parties – will remain relevant (and more influence than Holyrood).
     
    Good point, well made, BUT….
     
    If whoever rules Westminster is of some import to Scotland then surely it works both ways and the SNP who control Holywood are important and do have some influence on Westminster. To put it simply, the SNP could remove 33% of Brittains land mass and 10% of it’s population. I’d say that makes them damn important.
    And they’ve been in power longer than the current westminster governmewnt in a system specifically set up to create hung parliaments.
    And the general public believe in thier competence with ratings Cameron Clegg and Milliband would sell thier own grannies for.
     
    Yeah, not important, best ignore it in case you add a little more to the tidal wave that’s about to smash brittain to smithereens.

  21. heraldnomore says:

    Positive article in The Scotsman, and THAT picture again, but this time with the saltire as it is meant to be
    http://www.scotsman.com/the-scotsman/opinion/comment/tony-banks-yes-vote-can-secure-a-fairer-britain-1-2927462

  22. Jiggsbro says:

    If whoever rules Westminster is of some import to Scotland then surely it works both ways
     
    Well, no. It doesn’t. Westminster can dictate policy to Scotland. Holyrood cannot dictate policy to the UK.

  23. seoc says:

    Journalists? Scottish journalists?
    At the going down of the Sun, Record, Herald, Scotsman et al’ – We will remember them.
    For a week or two anyway.

  24. Doug Daniel says:

    The first question is just such a no brainer, I have no idea why nobody has asked it. Either all these journalists are utterly incompetent, or they simply don’t want to hear the answer, guessing that it would be “no”.

  25. mato21 says:

    I too couldn’t believe how mealy mouthed B.Ponsonby was last night I expected better but hey ho we were treated to Kaye this morning leading the charge She couldn’t drop the question fast enough not getting the response she had obviously hoped for

  26. Hetty says:

    Does that mean UKOK is no longer in operation? 
    The three stooges look like school children forced to look interested in what the head teacher is saying. Brown’s kids will be priveleged whereever they are brought up, they are rich rich rich. He will happily condemn many many much less wealthy kids in Scotland to a less than prosperous life, to say the very least. Disgusting stance from Brown, makes my blood boil.

  27. velofello says:

    irony: Kay(e), having had to endure  the absence of phone-in support for the Rt Hon Mr Brown – back from hibernation, then moved on to discuss preparations for death. I switched off but I wonder if some brave soul will call in to introduce political career death for discussion.

  28. Neil says:

    And so our ‘National’ Channels lead with headlines today on Angelina Jolie, and the Tories bun fight over Europe. The real news, the real reason for Cameron being in America, is to announce that our tax contribution to another foriegn war is to be doubled.
    The fear that is increasingly being expressed, that our decision in 2014 will be based on information that is either suppressed or promoted beyond it’s relevance, is a real danger to our future.
    The fact that our news outlets, print and broadcast, are happy to mislead, is truly shocking but, as history shows, should not be surprising.

  29. CameronB says:

    Harking back to a debate here from some time back, do the Scottish broadsheets deserve to survive, given their performance to date?

  30. Bill C says:

    Absolutely spot on Rev. You have exposed (not for the first time) the seriousness of the situation we face.  We do not live in a democracy, when our mainstream media are so reluctant to hold the British Establishment to account.  Our media are willing accomplices in stifling debate on whether the people of Scotland should exercise their democratic right to self determination.  Their compliance and in many cases, active support for the union, is akin to the actions of the media in some of the worst dictatorships the world has witnessed. 

  31. Juteman says:

    So there are now 3 Labour groups?
    Better Labour. United Labour and Labour for Indy.

  32. proudscot says:

    Kaye Adams this morning was surprised and sounding none to pleased at the level of adverse comment on the sainted North British Broon’s attempt to talk down the prospect of an independent Scotland. She tried, with only partial success, to talk over and interrupt Denis Canavan, when he was listing the many benefits independence will bring to Scotland, but she lapsed into an almost huffy silence when caller after caller either condemned the idea of the failed PM’s return to lead Unity With Labour, or else welcomed his return as a boost to the Yes Campaign!

  33. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    Well at least the MSM are consistent.
    Had to laugh at Brown having a pop at the tories. It reminded me of a scene from The Godfather II, where Michael Corleone is being hustled by the bent Senator. Corleone’s reply was, we are all part of the same hypocrisy. That sums up Westminster political parties and Brown’s involvement with the City Of London.    
     

  34. Creature says:

    I watched open-mouthed a bizarre episode of Newsnight Scotland last night, filmed in front of a wee audience, with a fair balance on the panel of four, and well hosted by Glen Campbell. The audience made good contributions, and Humza Yousaf and Chas Booth were fantastic proponents for independence, actually answering questions, in contrast to the No proponents.
    A very remarkable show considering the usual approach. Could it be that the media reaction to the latest No Together shenanigans will not be to openly criticise them, or ask them the obvious questions above, but instead – because they’re utterly scunnered with the duplicity of No together – will actually start to provide an open honest debating arena? Maybe. Please.

  35. theycan'tbeserious says:

    united with liebours logo still reflects the blue of the union flag in their saltire….that about sums up how Scottish they are!

  36. pa_broon74 says:

    Beside all the very obvious chicanery and double-standards, I think we need to know whether Magrit Curran in that photo is standing in a hole. I thought she’d be taller.

  37. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The cartoon in today’s Herald is very good indeed.

  38. john Lyons says:

    Well, no. It doesn’t. Westminster can dictate policy to Scotland. Holyrood cannot dictate policy to the UK.
     
    So removing 33% land mass and 10% population isn’t important?
     
    That pretty much sums up Westminsters attitude to Scotland and is about as good a reason as you’ll get to vote yes.

  39. Jiggsbro says:

    united with liebours logo still reflects the blue of the union flag in their saltire….that about sums up how Scottish they are!
     
    They’re Unionists. They believe Scotland should be part of the Union. Why then would they not use the colour of the Saltire as it is as part of the Union flag? The colour has varied throughout history and the lighter blue has only been official (for the Saltire independently, not as part of the Union flag) since 2003. They’re as Scottish as you or I, they just  have a different opinion about how Scotland’s interests are best served.

  40. MajorBloodnok says:

     
    @pa_broon74 said – I think we need to know whether Magrit Curran in that photo is standing in a hole. I thought she’d be taller.
     
     
    Maybe someone just threw a bucket of water over her and she’s melting.

  41. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Creature
    At 10;59am
    Don’t hold your breath!

  42. Jiggsbro says:

    So removing 33% land mass and 10% population isn’t important?
     
    No, it’s important, it just doesn’t make the SNP or Holyrood important in Westminster. Independence will be a function of the Scottish people, of many parties and of none, exercised in a referendum, not a function of the SNP or of Holyrood.

  43. Clarinda says:

    Do we accept that the unionist team effort to design a sleek running horse for the referendum has resulted in the BT or BacTrian camel now further depleted by Labour taking the hump in the forlorn chasing of a political mirage.
    OK, OK, I’ll draw a line in the sand and finish.

  44.  
    pa_broon74 says:
    14 May, 2013 at 11:06 am

    Beside all the very obvious chicanery and double-standards, I think we need to know whether Magrit Curran in that photo is standing in a hole. I thought she’d be taller.
     
     
    I’d say they were all in a big hole, but I’m quite happy for them to keep on digging. 🙂

  45. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Creature
    Yes I watched it as well. We could do with a few more like that. I got the feeling that the BBC were caught out. The criteria (Not indigenous Scots but have a vote!) for the panel and audience possibly prevented their usual stitch up.

  46. Creature says:

    @The Man in the Jar
    “The criteria (Not indigenous Scots but have a vote!) for the panel and audience possibly prevented their usual stitch up.”
    Ah, I missed the start, so hadn’t twigged that – but was struck by the pragmatic approach by the non-Scots-accented audience members, which was very refreshing.

  47. Barontorc says:

    Call Kaye was a hoot this morning and her true colours were full on show as she interrupted Denis Canavan repeatedly and you could almost hear her gulps of panic as caller after caller slated Gordon Brown and pushed the YES side.
     
    Of course she managed to get a token GB supporter to come on and gush ecstatic about how wonderful he was in Kirkcaldy – he even visited her boy’s school! So forget he war dead in Iraq, forget the smouldering pile of economic ordure he left behind, forget the gold bullion sale at half the market price, forget the fact that he ’employed’ his corporate executive brother to ‘clean’ his London flat at taxpayer expense, as he ripped of his expenses big time and was forced to pay it back -or some of it at least.
     
    Try to forget that even now he racks up income from speaking trips overseas and diddles the tax due by presenting it all as – ‘he doesn’t receive a penny personally – it all goes to pay the business’ costs. While he’s putting all this time in earning ‘not a penny personally’ he’s ignoring his duties to his constituents  by not even bothering to turn up for his ‘day job’ in Westminster – but he’s taking the salary in full and all the expenses he can lay his big clumping fist over. But, hey to some folks from Kirkcaldy – all of that seems to be ok because he visits their son’s school! You couldn’t make it up.
     
    It got so bad for Kaye  she cut DC short yet once again and then zoomed into the price of tickets for the Commonwealth Games after she told him he was welcome (as a fart in her proverbial spacesuit, no doubt) to stay with the program, jolly hockey sticks it wasn’t – a good listen in for a change just to feel her cringe. We deserve much better than this crap.

  48. Jamie Arriere says:

    I think the arrival of the ‘Big Clunking Fist’ (that still makes me laugh) will get us all used to the soundbite (which he’s already wearing out) about pooling resources and sharing them out across Britain. However he hasn’t clocked on to the fact that :
    1] These resources are spent/wasted on the priorities of those outside Scotland i.e London/SE/City
    2] More and more of the resources are being spent paying off the debts incurred by the mismanagement of the resources in the past, including by the useless bastard Broon himself.
    3] When the mismanagement is now being dealt with, it is hurting exponentially those whom the ‘pooling of resources’ is intended to benefit.
    The man’s a clueless pish-in-the-wind merchant!
    PS In the photo, Magrit is not small, she’s just sitting up in her coffin!

  49. Boorach says:

    That would have been Holy water then Major, would it?

  50. Max says:

     
    It is not just Alistair Darling who is being rejected by Labour.  
     
    Labour supporters are now rejecting the poor.
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/may/14/labour-voters-poor-study-solidarity
     
    Labour party supporters increasingly believe that welfare recipients are undeserving and that the welfare state encourages dependence, with a noticeable share saying that poverty is caused by a personal failing rather than a problem with society, a landmark study reveals.”

    What sort of place is the UK becoming if the people’s party are now blaming the poor for being poor. 

  51. Ron Maclean says:

    Why are so many unpleasant losers supporting the No campaign?

  52. Sapheneia says:

    If G.Brown is so devoted to social justice and a fairer society then:
    1. Why did his Labour government scrap the 10% rate of tax?
    2. Why was his Labour government “intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich”?

    3. Why didn’t his Labour government enforce the minimum wage and equality acts (this failure has greatly contributed to current xenophobia in the UK)?
    I also fear new depths of personal smears and negativity given G.Brown’s past record in Westminster politics. Furthermore, he is a good candidate as the most dogmatic centralist to have held the post of PM (which he was never democratically elected to).
    I wonder if he is going to start preaching his economic wisdom next?
     

  53. Ananurhing says:

    What strikes me is that none of us are surprised anymore at how much the Scottish MSM are supping at the bosom of the arse cheeks of the Labour Party. They make no attempt to hide it. Slab politicos boast about it. We see so many crossover jobs, intertwined marriages, and dodgy business between them that they’re practically homogenised. They share the same fate of being a pitiful shadow of what they set out to be at their inception. We really deserve something better than this. It’s unhealthy and undemocratic.

  54. JimboTheScot says:

    Lamont looks like Angela Merkel’s ugly brother

  55. Bobby Mckail says:

    I think the only option left for the #Yes parties is call out the BBC and STV if there is a “split” story or similar occurs again.  They should avail themselves for an appearance and then question the interviewer why a small discrepancy of personal opinion in the Yes camp is highlighted but no mention of Anti-Indy splinter groups are.
    I’m afraid if Yes camp continue to let this sort of blatant disregard for not just balanced journalism, but also an affront to undermining democracy and the Scottish people, they will be letting everyone down.

  56. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    Anyone notice that  Newsnight Scotland is still not up on the iplayer. It generally appears sometime in the small hours. BBC Scotland trying to hide a poor showing of the BitterTogether mob, until another news story kicks in. Would not be surprising.

  57. alasdair says:

    Am I the only who thinks that ‘united with labour’ sounds less like a campaign group and more like a marketing vehicle for the Labour Party?

  58. Jamie Arriere says:

    I think United with Labour should be better called ‘Married with Capital’

  59. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Anyone notice that Newsnight Scotland is still not up on the iplayer.”

    It’s on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG9_AaI_t4c
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4jBPb40SjY

  60. theycan'tbeserious says:

    jiggsbro:
     
    Point taken….but there are Scot’s that want to see Scotland benefit and there are those that want to keep their nose in the trough and line their own pockets at the expense of their fellow Scots…these clowns no matter what they call themselves or how they package themselves fall into the latter!!
    just saying! lol
     

  61. Seanair says:

    Good cartoon in The Herald today by Steven Camley ( Scotsman alleged cartoonists take note).

  62. Geoff Huijer says:

    Only one more (perhaps the most startling) example of
    the pro-Union bias in the media.
    ‘We’ all recognise it and no doubt (judging by hits) share
    the Rev’s articles, however, ‘Jock Public’ is totally unaware
    of this behaviour.
     
    Indeed, as Doug Daniel and others have already said
    I could handle (almost) a No vote delivered by the people
    based on a knowledge of facts. What I will find impossible
    to forgive is a No vote driven by media manipulation (and, let’s
    face it, lies, smears and propaganda).
     
    When truth outs the divisions in the country, the bitterness
    at being manipulated into ‘No’ will be formidable.
     
    That all said, what is to be done? We can discuss, moan, mock
    and share links here (and from here), but ultimately nothing
    happens. The MSM (& BBC in particular) are acting with impunity.
     
    The referendum ‘debate’, currently, is a complete sham; and it appears
    there is nothing ‘we’ can do about it (and is nothing being done about it)

  63. Bill McLean says:

    Ron Maclean – the answer to your question at 1154 is in the question! 

  64. Tony Little [aka Aplinal] says:

    @Sapheneia
     
    Just for balance, the Mandelson quote is always cut short.   I should add that I do not support any of the pro-dependency, No Better squad, but what Mandelson said was:
     
    “I am intensely relaxed about people getting filthy rich as long as they pay their taxes” [my emphasis]  Although he now seems to have recanted!  Here in the guardian a year or so ago.

    EDIT: Rev, I think I tries to post twice! what is showing is OK, but maybe a copy is in the system?

  65. CameronB says:

    Geoff Huijer says: 14 May, 2013 at 1:15 pm

    “Only one more (perhaps the most startling) example of the pro-Union bias in the media.”

    Absolute agreement there.

    “The referendum ‘debate’, currently, is a complete sham; and it appears there is nothing ‘we’ can do about it (and is nothing being done about it)”
     
    Absolute agreement with the first point. We can do something though and that is talk to as many people as possible. Remember though that we are still over a year out, and total strangers might not respond well to full on campaigning for Yes. I find asking strangers if they are registered to vote is usually enough to get the ball rolling. Circumstance and timing are critical though, otherwise you could come over rather scarey I suppose. 🙂

    The MSM is making itself more irrelevant by the day, as more and more people start to wonder what the hell it is they are smelling. Luckily, the penny doesn’t take too long to drop for most folk, when they stop focusing on the next rollover, etc.
     

  66. Tony says:

    Seanair says:
    14 May, 2013 at 12:57 pm

    Good cartoon in The Herald today by Steven Camley ( Scotsman alleged cartoonists take note).
     
    Any chance you can provide a link to it as I can’t seem to find it in their search engine? Thanks much.

  67. Dcanmore says:

    @Alasdair 12.35pm… Am I the only who thinks that ‘united with labour’ sounds less like a campaign group and more like a marketing vehicle for the Labour Party?”
     
    I mentioned this in a previous thread. I believe United Labour will be a fundraising campaign to squeeze cash out of a demoralised Labour support who were pissed off at BT’s donorgate. A cynical hypocritical move by yesterday’s man dredging up a past that’s no longer applicable to the modern neo-liberal Labour Party.

  68. Sapheneia says:

    Tony Little [aka Aplinal]

    The full quote you kindly added demonstrates the two flaws to the New Labour philosophy put forward by Mandelson:
    1. Being relaxed about people getting filthy rich will, by definition, lead to an imbalanced society.  The issues around an imbalanced society (and economy) are set out in Prof Stiglitz’s book “The price of inequality”.
    2. Unfortunately the rich do not pay a fair share of their taxes in the USA or UK. The classic example is Warren Buffet paying a lower percentage tax than his housekeeper. Many of our political classes are beneficiaries of off shore trust funds that incur no UK tax.
    Basically Mr.Mandelson was showing his ignorance of economic and social reality.  Mind you he is a Labour peer.

  69. Jamie Arriere says:

    Re the Newsnight debate, keep that link handy to direct any numpty who argues that independence means anti-Englishness to. The number of measured and pragmatic English voices present who recognised the distinct nature of Scottish society and politics, the inclusivity of the debate, and the lack of fear was tangible – should shoot any racist nonsense dead before it starts.

  70. the rough bounds says:

    @Jiggsbro. 11.18 am.
     
    ‘They’re as Scottish as you or I”.
     
    No fucking way are No voters as Scottish as I am.
    They’re North Britons. Nothing more.

  71. CameronB says:

    Re. your second point Sapheneia, the Guardian put some scale on the problem a couple of days ago.
     
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2013/may/12/ftse-100-use-tax-havens-full-list?INTCMP=SRCH

  72. Tony Little [aka Aplinal] says:

    Sapheneia
     
    I don’t disagree, simply adding to the debate 😉

  73. Ron Maclean says:

    Bill McLean – I hope nobody thinks I was suggesting that Brown, Darling, Wilson, Scotsman, Herald, BBC Scotland, K+e, clypes Buchanan and Bradford (Aw Miss Lamont div ye ken whit Alec/Nicola/Alex has went an done noo?), et al ad nauseam are unpleasant losers.

  74. Bill McLean says:

    Ron Maclean – you wee tinker you!

  75. JLT says:

    It’s only a matter of time before Gordo screws up …and he will. It’s in his DNA.
     
    I’m hoping that Salmond at First Ministers Questions this week, will be asking Lamont, exactly what Labours position is with the BT campaign as well as this United Labour lark.
    I hope he asks her what Ed Milibands views are to the EU referendum, and whether Labour intend to back an EU referendum. I believe a couple of Labour politicians have already hinted that they back it.
    And I hope he asks ‘…where is Darling?’

  76. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    What a photo; all they need is instruments to be the band playing on the aft deck of the Titanic
    Sorry to hear BP has misplaced his falsies

  77. Blackford Wheeler says:

    AmadeusMinkowski says:
    14 May, 2013 at 12:33 pm

    “Anyone notice that Newsnight Scotland is still not up on the iplayer. It generally appears sometime in the small hours. BBC Scotland trying to hide a poor showing of the BitterTogether mob, until another news story kicks in. Would not be surprising.”

    I’ve also noticed that other Scottish current affairs programmes (such as Sunday Politics Scotland) appear to be significantly delayed, in comparison to BBC England shows, before appearing on iplayer. This denies timeous scrutiny and reaction to those interested in challenging the content.

    Just another small manifestation of the BBC’s contempt for democratic scrutiny?
     

  78. Neil Mackenzie says:

    From what I’ve seen, UNITED-with-LABOUR is not similar to and has nothing to do with Better Together or Scottish independence or the referendum or anything else.
    All it is is a kind of church for members of the Scottish Labour Party to go to in order to worship and adore the Proper Labour Party and to indulge in some kind of communion with its ‘holy spirit’.

  79. Graeme Purves says:

    I guess it’s Bitter Together – United Apart.

  80. Chic McGregor says:

    Bit retrospective, but this is probably the most appropriate resting place on this site for my effort circa Thursday last.
     
     
    https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B8CTHz_DTDtlbUJqQzg0cjZ0dFE/edit?usp=sharing



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