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More phantom news

Posted on August 19, 2016 by

For several years now this site has been drawing attention to the weird phenomenon of phantom news – stories presented by the media without even a shred of supporting evidence yet treated as unquestionable empirical fact. And recently there have been more phantoms around the Scottish press than an episode of Scooby Doo.

rodendaisley

The thing Alan Roden – who prefers intimidating ordinary members of the public by doorstepping them and vilifying them in his paper – links to in that tweet is an article on the Herald website last night. And it’s a weird article, because it’s an extensive, quote-laden story about something that doesn’t appear to have happened at all.

heralddaisley

The first thing to note about those intro paragraphs is that absolutely no such thing has in fact “emerged”. Neither STV nor Stephen Daisley has made any admission or claim that the broadcaster has “called a halt” to Daisley’s commentary.

(Ironically, of course, the Herald is the newspaper which really DID gag two of its own journalists when they were the subject of pressure from a football club.)

The closest thing to evidence backing the assertion is the observation that Daisley hasn’t penned an opinion piece for STV since July 19, which is only a month ago. It’s the summer “silly season” for politics, and with both the UK and Scottish parliaments in recess all journalists are struggling for material.

Indeed, as far as we can tell, in the four weeks since Daisley’s last, a wild-eyed rant about Labour, the STV comment section has only published (excluding one in Polish that we can’t read) eight opinion columns in total, by eight different people:

Kevin McKenna on onscreen rape and violence

“Scottish rapper” Darren McGarvey on how the SNP are bad

Chloe Marvin on how Jeremy Corbyn is bad

John McTernan on how independence is bad

Labour MSP James Kelly on how the SNP are bad

Hannah McGill on how Andrea Leadsom is good

Andrew Collier on how “cybernats” are bad

Melanie Reid on how men are bad

So it’s not like Daisley’s right-wing views have exactly been going unrepresented in the station’s output anyway. And Daisley himself has merrily continued trolling Nats on his Twitter account the whole time.

daisleymurray

The fact that neither Daisley nor STV has given any statement saying that he’d been subject to any sort of sanction – the broadcaster in fact said that “Stephen Daisley is a key contributor”, present tense – didn’t stop Unionist politicians falling over each other in the rush to go on the record stating it as a fact:

heraldmsps

And it’s not until the very last line of a 700-word story – by which point, as we know, almost all readers have stopped reading – that we get the categorical denial from the SNP that they’d exerted any pressure over Daisley whatsoever:

daisleydenial

We’re sure the former Scottish Conservatives media adviser and News Of The World reporter will be fine, though. He has plenty of eager and staunch defenders – no less a figure than Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Parliament’s opposition, leapt to his aid this morning with all the bullish alacrity of a burly man outside a polling station.

daisleywix

davidsondaisley

But he hasn’t been the only Unionist painted as a martyr to the vile Nats this month. It’s just a couple of weeks since David Torrance did a dramatic flounce off Twitter, citing non-specific, unseen abuse from those awful cybernats.

And earlier this week the papers were full of TV presenter and aggressively-Unionist columnist Neil Oliver saying he too had been driven away by the beastly monsters of social media.

olivertimes

oliverexpress

oliverscotsman

Every report on Oliver’s rage-quit states as an unchallenged fact that “internet trolls sent him messages saying they hoped he got cancer and said he was a traitor who deserved to be burnt alive”. Yet searching Twitter for messages directed to Oliver’s now-closed account produces no evidence of any such abuse whatsoever.

oliverabuse

Searches for “burnt” or “burned” produce no abusive results at all. And searching for “cancer” turns up not people wishing that Oliver had the disease, but people angrily reacting to HIS OWN use of the term to refer to independence in an extraordinarily provocative Sunday Times interview in September 2015 (followed by a similarly belligerent column in the same paper in May this year).

olivercancerous

Of course, when a pro-independence paper reported that anger, right-wing Unionist hacks belonging to Daisley’s clique had joyously celebrated the hurt feelings of people who’d lost relatives to cancer and objected to Oliver’s language:

olivermartin

(Oliver’s Twitter account was very little-used anyway, despite its large following. The most recent snapshot of it on archive.org is dated 3 May 2016, but the last tweets shown on it are from 6 September 2015 and show him gleefully boasting of how many people he’s just blocked. He’d made only 1,978 tweets in over five years of having the account, or roughly one tweet a day.)

oliveroct23

So a theme is developing. Oliver, Torrance and Daisley have all gone out of their way to antagonise and provoke supporters of independence, then have suddenly become victims of terrible supposed abuse that we’re not shown and that nobody can find, such that they’re “hounded off” social media (rather than, say, using the block and mute functions) or out of doing their job – even though they’re still in their job – and the media goes off on another orgy of hyperbole about dreadful “cybernats”.

(The Herald having prepared the scene earlier this week with another attack on them, from the same author as the Daisley story, based on comments made by embittered former SNP advisor Alex Bell at a Fringe “debate” also featuring right-wing Unionist Alex Massie and impartially hosted by, er, David Torrance.)

gordonbell

gordonfest

gordonfest2

Comedian and columnist Frankie Boyle – who’s been the subject of plenty of very real threats himself – has recently remarked on the phenomenon of phantom abuse:

“I find it incredibly worrying that we no longer need to hear the actual content of the thing we’re told to be offended by. We hear of people being arrested for tweets without the tweet being reported; comics are blasted for routines that aren’t printed; newspapers hire lip-readers to find something to get offended by at the tennis and then print the resulting fuckfest as asterisks.

And who decides whether we should be outraged at something we haven’t seen or heard? The press. Our seething collective Id. None of us would trust a journalist to hold our pint while we went to the bathroom, yet we allow them to be ethical arbiters for the entire culture.”

But there’s nothing new about it, certainly not in the world of the Scottish political media. And if it had only happened in the last few weeks, we could have put it down to the summer silly season and desperate hacks with nothing else to write about.

But when it happens consistently, year after year, whether it’s Stephen Daisley or Susan Calman or David Torrance or “ordinary mum” Claire Lally or Neil Oliver or Cara Hilton or Chris Hoy or JK Rowling or Nigel Farage or the nurse who definitely wasn’t an actress, it looks a lot more like a modus operandi.

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    1. 19 08 16 10:56

      More phantom news | speymouth

    2. 19 08 16 21:46

      There is still no such thing as a free media – Site Title

    449 to “More phantom news”

    1. Roboscot says:

      The ‘Scottish Six’ is a current issue, so journalists being intimidated is a good reason to have our news from England instead.

    2. Chitterinlicht says:

      All feels very coordinated.

      Not sure it’s a viable long term tactic.

      I found Neil Oliver recent article deeply offensive and ignorant and struggle to taken him seriously now.

      Disagree with David Torrance on a lot of stuff but he took my occasional twitter interactions well and in good humour

      Looking back over the last few years I worry Stephen Daisly has been abducted by aliens. Blocked me so not sure what has been doing recently. He has talent as a writer just feels very unbalanced sometimes. As Wings points he has not gone anywhere.

      Hey ho

    3. Capella says:

      It is also reminiscent of the coordinated “spontaneous” resignation of the Labour front bench in the run-up to Chilcot. Drip drip drip – on it goes. Could the connection be the discredited SPADS who think that smear and innuendo is a good way of discrediting your political opponents?

      Drip drip drip…

    4. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      ” LibDem MSP Mike Rumbles added: “That the SNP felt compelled to lean on STV to stop a journalist writing says more about them than it does Stephen Daisley.”

      “During the referendum we saw crowds protesting at BBC Scotland with the tacit backing of Alex Salmond and senior colleagues. This sorry episode suggests nothing has changed.””

      Yes, we saw the protests at Plantation Quay and yes, as far as the blatant bias goes, nothing has changed. Wonder when the next protest rally will take place?

    5. I posted this earlier on Macart’s excellent ‘Who needs a sword?’ piece guest scribing on WGD.
      ‘This way of life has to end’.

      This is a quote from an activist from Montgomery, Alabama, late 1955.

      As most are aware, public transport in the US Southern Sates was segregated, with a ‘coloured section’ at the rear of ‘buses, with the front of the ‘bus reserved for whites only.

      When the front seats were full, African American passengers on the front rows of the ‘Coloured Section’ at the rear were obliged to give up their seats to white passengers boarding the ‘bus.

      On the 5th of December 1955, Rosa Parkes, along with three others were ordered to give up their seats to white passengers.

      While the three others complied, it was in fact a city ordinance, Parkes refused, was arrested, and fined $10 plus $4 court costs.

      This momentous event is credited as the beginning of the modern American Civil Rights Movement.
      75% of public transport users in Montgomery were African Americans.

      The Boycott which followed, soon spread across the South, and lasted 381 days, despite a Montgomery Federal Court finding in June 1956 that the segregation violated the 14th Amendment of the Constitution. (What a good idea: a written Constitution.)

      Car pools were organised, black taxi drivers charged the 10 cents equivalent of the ‘bus fare, and folk just walked to work.

      Although the City held out for over a year, money talked, and the ‘buses were eventually desegregated.

      Oh, yes, and the young 26 year old, elected to head this Movement? The Rev Martin Luther King, who 8 years later, in 1963 would deliver his ‘I Have A Dream’ speech to the throngs in Washington.

      ‘This way of life has to end’.

      I have instigated my own humble boycott of Unionist MSM, and Big Businesses who have suppressed and distorted the Independence message Up Here over the past 4/5 years.

      I will no longer sit at the back of the ‘bus, and give up my right to express pro Independence opinions on social media sites, because the Unionist/ Brexit /White Man demands that I vacate the space to give them even more room and advantage on the overcrowded platform than that which they have now.
      After 50 years, I have stopped buying the Dead Tree Scrolls. The play on Dead Sea Scrolls is deliberate. Crumbling papyrus, spouting ancient myths and warnings of damnation if we stick to our evil ways.

      Last time, Asda, M&S, RBS, Barrhead Travel, Standard Life, and a whole raft of the Elite Ruling Class were ordered by No 10 to put the frighteners on the Northern Horde, if they voted for Self Determination., and our Fourth Estate Fifth Column, being part of the US Dominated World’s Elite, duly obliged.
      I have never set foot in, nor would I give my custom to any of the merchants’ and Money Men’s stores , nor will I ever again.
      I’d urge others to join me and boycott firms, supermarkets, Money lenders, and media outlets which continue to pound us with threats , lies, and distortions like this.

      ‘God gave Noah the rainbow sign, no more fire, no more water, the fire next time.’ Spiritual quoted by James Baldwin.:’The Fire Next Time’. (outstanding BTW)

      No more Mr Nice Guy.

      No longer do we give up our seat at the debating table.
      The Fourth Estate is the Unionist Fifth Column.

      You may recall in the movie ‘Jaws’, Quint, Chief Brody and the terrified oceanographer Matt Hooper, aboard the fragile ‘Orca’ hunting the Great White rogue shark.

      Buckets of bloody chuck were spooned into the ocean to lure the shark towards the shallows.
      While taking his turn Chief Brody turns to be confronted with the triple rows of sharks teeth and the beast’s giant head emerging from the water and almost boarding the craft.

      ‘We’re going to need a bigger boat!’.

      Well, the blatantly Unionist MSM , particularly on line, are casting ‘bloody chuck’, in the form of the now quite ridiculous ‘opinion pieces’ , SNP BAD piffle, and Kezia is orgasmically wonderful crapola, into the troubled waters Up Here, in the hope that we, who support Independence will ‘rise to the bait’, and access their pathetic little sites, and earn another 1/2 cent click for the Imperialist US and London media owners.
      I commented last week that I shall never mention that bespectacled bearded buffoon who deranged juvenile Unionist junk via HS again; well that goes for the whole tawdry bunch of hacks and TV talking heads out there in YoonLand.
      You have run out of bloody meat chuck and fish heads. We are a still circling your pathetic little craft, ready .
      You’re going to need a bigger boat, next time, come Indyref 2.
      Our ‘pen’ on independent media has grown exponentially in relation to your pathetic clickbait nonsense shrinking into a laughable and ugly SNP Bad Hatefest shrivelled peanut.
      We no longer have a dream. We are living the dream now. Our pen is mightier than ever.
      Independence is now an inevitable reality.
      Selling Advertising Space for the Auchtermuchty Gazette is a noble profession, or so I hear.
      O mores, o tempora.

      ,

    6. Macart says:

      Jinkies!

      I reckon Mr Boyle’s quote nails it. 🙂

    7. Training Day says:

      Quite remarkable how these ‘journalists’ – shills for corporate interests, big business and anti-democratic elites to a man and woman – reach for the ‘freedom of speech’ mantra when the interests for which they perform as ventriloquist’s dummies are challenged.

      ‘Journalists’ like Gordon, Daisley et al have never in their careers uttered one syllable that is truly ‘free’.

    8. louis.b.argyll says:

      What does Alex Bell actually do now?

      Why is he deliberately turning into a McTernan/loser.

      Where’s his positivity! Have the tory press promised to give him a gong if he helps trash the SNP?

    9. Grouse Beater says:

      Putting incessant black propaganda down to the ‘silly season’ presupposes the entire bloody year is a silly season if the puerile, abusive, and mendacious behaviour of Scotland’s press and pundits is to be judged.

    10. JayR says:

      It does depress and anger me on a daily basis just how amateur, corrupt, insidious and vile establishment “journalism” in Scotland and the UK really is. But at least more and more people can see through their tricks these days…and ignore them.

    11. Edit: ‘God gave Noah the Rainbow sign: no more water, the fire next time.’
      I really must get the anger out of my typing.

    12. louis.b.argyll says:

      Unionist idealists’ future..

      Dame Jackie Bird
      Lord Torrance
      Sir A Bell
      Baroness Rowling..

      Sorry, had a longer list.. but starting to feel a bit sick..

    13. Kevin says:

      Oliver, Torrance and Daisley; that’s three less irritating trolls we’re being denied. I enjoyed seeing them being swatted with ease. Lightweights.

      Next!

    14. Dan Huil says:

      Just when you thought the britnat media couldn’t sink any lower…

      Don’t buy britnat newspapers; don’t visit their websites; let them go out of britnat business…

    15. Clootie says:

      …and the unionist media will continue production of mud for slinging as they are convinced that with their control of “News” that it can be made to stick.

      A Relentless negative presentation of the Independence movement and those involved are the duty of the loyal unionist media. If they cannot bait someone for a headline then they will spin a quote out of context. If that fails they simply make up a story and each outlet quotes the others as “source”

      Journalism is dead due to this drive to push propaganda. This is the last ditch effort to hold the remaining unionist vote intact. The SNPbad, evil cybernats, one party state, nazi mind control etc etc

      Why are the unionists so angry? It’s simple – they are no longer free to print/report lies and propaganda without challenge.

      It is why I support and promote sites such as Wings. A site which produces facts with links to source. A site which provides history capture of tweets to prove the “offended” are liars.

      Well done Rev and thank you!

    16. Onwards says:

      I don’t know the situation with Daisley, but I could understand if STV were embarrassed with his behaviour.
      They cater to all of Scotland, and would surely prefer to be seen as having a neutral and balanced political stance?

      Daisley started off that way, but quickly changed. He obviously sees himself in the role of an outspoken right wing ‘opinion former’, rather than a balanced journalist.

      Fair enough, but someone like that is more suited to the Daily Mail or the Telegraph which make no secret of their political agenda.

    17. Schiehallion! Schiehallion! says:

      Wouldn’t it be great to live in a country where the TV news was interested in examining this phenomenon?

    18. ScottishPsyche says:

      It is definitely the theme of the summer. Even Camley the cartoonist had a go this week.

      Yet they point to their digital traffic figures as some sort of triumph, not acknowledging that most of the clicks are for stories on a US teen idol’s’ love life or on a slow day throw in something about Rowling’s twitter.

      The political commentators of our day have emerged as a grubby lot, scrambling around for clicks and now creating the news to get them. I suppose the NOTW modus operandi had to go somewhere.

      The story was obviously set up well in advance with Daisley urging his followers to FF ‘Spanner’ and well aware of the reaction to follow. His self imposed twitter silence this morning speaks volumes.

      So any bets on who is next?

    19. Grouse Beater says:

      Neil Oliver, bone picker and hair flicker; is there anything else to his character?

    20. Dcanmore says:

      It’s the end of times, that final batshit crazy period before the inevitable.

      The Union is in its final throes.

    21. Marcia says:

      What a lot of people read in newspapers today are just opinions and smears by a small clique, not real ‘news’. They give journalism a bad name. How dare we criticise them, don’t you know your place?

    22. Scott Borthwick says:

      Daisley was occasionally entertaining ‘way back in 2014. The quality of his output dropped markedly once he was admitted to the Rowling club.

      As for news outlets manufacturing news; this phenomenon has always been with us, and it seems pathetic in these days of globally-connected, rolling news.

      Sad though it appears to those of us who are paying attention, it serves two important purposes. It hardens the opinions of those we would seek to persuade as it seeks to flush out a reactionary element who may provide the evidence of abuse after the fact.

      Whilst it is a concern, I believe that hysterical, fact-free reporting is symptomatic of the waning influence of these outlets.

    23. Hamish100 says:

      It does show how yooniiists and brexiters are actually worried over Scotland. By voting out of the EU they have clearly demonstrated the differences between Scotland and England and in particular in relation to social justice including immigration, nuclear weapons, war, NHS etcetera.

      The nut jobs posing as journalists or even historians are I believe helping our cause. Yes some right wing nuts like Carsewell and Rumble of the Baillie spout off and are believed by some like right wing fisherman leaders. As they say this is the calm before the storm but the brexiters are on the back foot in Scotland.

    24. SOG says:

      OT – The BBC’s self-reported credibility score, seems to be 72% in Scotland…

      https://www.theguardian.com/media/2016/aug/18/scottish-viewers-bbc-news-impartiality-independence-referendum

    25. harry mcaye says:

      Yes, thank you Rev. These papers don’t have long to go. Their death is imminent and they will not be mourned.

    26. dandy dons 1903 says:

      Another pathetic display of crying wolf by the yoonie-trolls and pro-union carpetbaggers, useful idiots etc who infest the anti Scottish msm. It would be laughable if it wasnt so sad and pathetic. And then they wonder why the dullard unionist narrative is dying on its arse. The truth will always find you out in the end yoons…..its not going to end well for you!

    27. Macbeda says:

      @SOG 11:03

      This is the guardian as a click free archive

      http://archive.is/OVKcM

    28. Tony Little says:

      I looked at the BTL comments on the Herald under this article. There are the usual suspects who seem to inhabit a parallel universe.

      As media sales continue to plummet, I wonder how much we need to be concerned about this type of lying article – and it IS lying. Will the continual barrage of “SNP Bad” article eventually result in the usual diminishing impact or can this really sustain the anti-SNP attitude across Scotland in some quarters?

    29. It is of course a modus operandi,Stuart, and has been for some time. But it doesn’t work because 99% of the population are entirely oblivious to it and 99% of the other 1% know it is a confection and don’t give a feck.

    30. gus1940 says:

      I don’t suppose that it couldn’t all possibly be a co-ordinated Unionist Cunning Plan well down to Baldrick’s usual standard.

    31. Schrödinger's Dug says:

      When talking about politics with anyone in Scotland, start by saying “do you believe everything you read in the newspapers” if they answer in the affirmative, back away slowly, as if you have inadvertently stumbled into a minefield. If they have at least one functioning brain cell they will say “of course not”, then answer “if everything you read, you have just agreed, is predicated on a lie, how can You trust anything you say to me from now on?” Then say the SNP have 56 MP’S do you think everyone who voted for them is stupid?
      Then ask, what do you think the papers are telling lies for, who benefits?

      The reason they hate Wings, is not for the vile language, because that is virtually nonexistent in terms of social media, the real reason they hate Wings is every day their lie’s are exposed, their world view challenged and their integrity ripped to shreds. Every single day they relentlessly troll their loyalist agenda, and every day they are shown to be liars.

      They are not journalists, they have transcended that now to become an integral part of the political machinery, nothing less than bona fide political operatives. Then they in their arrogance demand the respect of the former, whilst using all the Machiavellian arts of the later.

    32. heedtracker says:

      Thankfully it looks like at least half of Scots aren’t too bother by yoon toryboys what wont tweet, front page headline tragic as it is. Frankie’s spot on with that id/UKOK hackdom analogy, as your id is in a constant struggle to comprehend and control reality going on around it.

    33. jimnarlene says:

      Frankie Boyle nails it.

    34. What we are seeing are desperate unionists resorting to increasingly desperate tactics in order to help Westminster continue to maintain its control of Scotland..

    35. Marian says:

      The propaganda coming from Daisley, Torrance, Hjul, Cochrane and others has got to be orchestrated by someone. Cochrane and Hjul in particular seem to see themselves less as journalists and more as a crusading husband-and-wife propaganda team dedicated to keeping Scotland British.

      Nevertheless we could do with more robust countering from the SNP and pro-indy supporters of the Britnat journos constant drip drip claims of Scotland allegedly having an annual “deficit “of £14.9 billion, claims that the Scots NHS, Police and now Fire services are in a mess, etc.

    36. Dorothy Devine says:

      They really are a bunch of Boo-hoo big girls blouses aren’t they?

      Do they really think that they should be allowed to broadcast/print absolute ordure and no-on should contradict their drivel?

    37. Scotland does not have a newspaper. The nearest is the National, which is English money. The only writing I trust, but don’t always agree with, is WoS. Why does Scotland not possess a newspaper? The Scotsman is now only worth 10% of its original purchase price; why can’t the wealthy SNP buy it? Scotland is the only country in the World without a ‘paper or TV station to support it.

    38. Jack Murphy says:

      Now listen you lot—–get back in your box,buy your daily Scottish paper and settle down with your deep fried Mars Bar in front of Reporting Scotland beamed to you from Pacific Quay.

      Swallow the lot—–including the Mars Bar and the news as presented to you at 6:30pm.
      Doff your cap when expert commentators come on.Some of them have degrees. Know your place.
      Understand?
      Good.That’s the Scotland problem solved,courtesy of the BBC and the papers.

    39. Neil Cook says:

      Great point Jack Collatin

      I’m of the same opinion, dont buy msm papers, dont give my money to organisations that betrayed Scotland.
      Certainly dont read shit from nonentities in the msm that who are only fishing for a reaction as though that justifies their self importance. If people stopped commenting on the articles the papers might realise that they are not getting under your skin which is the objective!!

      It would be good to have an honest debate but honesty is not a part of the msm mantra so its not worth giving them the time of day.
      People have to stop reacting to the backslapping by the yoons and just leave wings to disect the article and put a fair comment on it. Do not in any instance comment in the msm page as that is giving in to them.

    40. Greannach says:

      I don’t really blame Professor Oliver for being a British Nationalist. When his income relies on playing the Loyal Jock to an audience based mainly in England, it’s understandable. At least he doesn’t rig himself out like Harry Lauder or Billy Connnolly to appeal to the masses: he’s sophisticated. An academic with long hair – cool hipster.

    41. galamcennalath says:

      We hear much about a ‘post truth’ era. Certainly there seems little substance to much of the news. Myth, opinion, innuendo, and fabrication are used to shape public perceptions.

      I think more than anything we are in a ‘post evidence’ era. Everything said, printed, opined, or broadcast should be backed up by evidence. It rarely is.

      Critics of WoS should take note of the Rev’s continual references to sources. Typically Yoon propaganda contains no links to backup evidence.

      The universal challenge to much of the shite thrown at us should be, “show us the evidence”.

    42. Graeme Borthwick at 11.43

      The National is owned by Gannett Inc which is an American company with a UK offshoot called Newsquest. It owns hundreds of newspapers with very varying views and its major concern is the financial viabilty of any title, not its political positioning.

      Which is why we should all stop buying the Herald.

    43. Dr Jim says:

      Meanwhile in ACTUAL news NOTHING is reported because Unionists are overwhelmingly obsessed by the invention of grievances in the hope of fooling the public at large that the SNP are what Unionists say they are, which is always something Baad, without ever producing a shred of evidence for their claims

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again unless these Unionists both private or press can produce factual evidence of their assertions it should be considered a crime of INCITEMENT and the perpetrators prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law

      In the case of the National Press I’d go even further than fines and call into question their legal right to publish hate speech freely, if Muslim Clerics preaching the same stuff can be jailed and or deported what’s the difference, in fact it’s worse, gullible uninformed innocent Unionists who have NEVER been told the truth are being misled and incited to hatred by a partisan biased right wing media intent on controlling the politics of a Nation, and those politics are simple Scotland must on NO account ever be allowed to decide anything for itself

      That is the whole of the law

      The press must be exposed and more power to those who do it
      Every time they lie, Wings and honest folk must catch them and shred them to bits for doing it before they get what they want and we all know what that is

    44. heedtracker says:

      The Scotsman is now only worth 10% of its original purchase price; why can’t the wealthy SNP buy it? Scotland is the only country in the World without a ‘paper or TV station to support it.

      England wont give up control of Scotland, so they’re certainly not going to give up control of any Scottish haha newspaper.

    45. James Galt says:

      @Graeme Borthwick
      We don’t need a newspaper to support us, a newspaper that tells the truth would be a start.

    46. Artyhetty says:

      Frankie Boyle makes some good points. It all stinks, and akin to 1984, silence the people, even lock em up for speaking out. At the same time give rancid, lying voice to the corrupt big knobs.

      Suspect it is not just happening in UKok, by what my family over from Australia tell me.

    47. galamcennalath says:

      Greannach says:

      “I don’t really blame Professor Oliver for being a British Nationalist.”

      Indeed, a minority of Scots will always be better off in the Union of Greater England.

      The main criticism of Oliver is not his views, nor even the fact that be expresses them …. it is that he feels entitled to dish out offence but is unwilling to take the inevitable response.

      He is far from alone with his sense of entitlement. He clearly considers himself special and worthy of being listened to. He should be man enough to accept that not everyone will agree with that exceptional status! Nor, will everyone be willing to accept his venom and not snap back.

    48. Andrew McLean says:

      Greannach says:
      19 August, 2016 at 11:50 am
      Yes cool, a real cool hipster in a dad dancing sort of way, the type favorited by grand-mamas of a certain vintage, am academic in the “it wont mater what he says it’s all academic” anyway, as for his sartorial elegance, that’s just the new millennium “Lauder”.

      I cant comment on his sudo-history programs, not my cup of tea. its just Mills and Boon, between shots of “mothers ruin” for elderly yoons.

    49. Tinto Chiel says:

      Sorry, I’m still laughing that there is such a thing as the Scottish Parliamentary Journalists’ Association, according to Roden.

      Your usual forensic dismantling, Rev, and that Mr Boyle is pretty sharp too:

      “I don’t read newspapers anymore – I just lie to myself and cut out the middleman.”

    50. JET Jockey says:

      Has Mike Rumbles seen the website that describes him as being a totally useless MSP, Leaflets are being distributed in West Aberdeenshire fully detailing what he is capable of.

    51. mogabee says:

      Journalism is extinct. I mean the regular news reporting, investigative journalism that used to inform.

      Compare what Stu does here. I know that anything he writes about I can check myself and know the piece has balance.

      I will never view news reports whether in hard press or online or in media without a very healthy dollop of scepticism because time after time we find they lie, cheat, misrepresent.

      We all deserve better.

      In the same vein… Seems that RT have uncovered a fabricated story put out by Sky! Hacks are being found out and complain when we deride them…Tough

    52. Ian Mackay says:

      I can certainly see a pattern of ‘let’s incite the Yes voters and then storm off claiming non-existent abuse’ here.

      I’m not so sure it is coordinated though.

      I think what has happened is that some publicity has been generated in each case and it has created a pathway for publicity for some celebrities, journalists etc. as they are in fact using the media’s predilection for SNPBad stories to gain a bit more notoriety for themselves.

      I’m sure Unionists are hoping people will think that there’s no smoke without fire if they play the abused Unionist line often enough.

      The problem with that approach is that as every case is found smokeless, fire-less and more-or-less fabricated – the building perception is not of cybernat abuse but that of a mainstream media that is complicit in untruths.

      Although the media realises that they are losing trust as they are all by-and-large running the same SNPBad policy they feel unable not go with the tired and discredited cybernat abuse line.

      They know that this is turning the public off the press. Their sales are plummeting. Every day they lose readers to alternative media like Wings Over Scotland. They fall back on clickbait headlines that bear no relation to the actual story (as in this case).

      Each story becomes another marker in the dying throes of Unionism.

    53. galamcennalath says:

      As well as made up phantom stories, they purposely fail to report news which doesn’t suit their agenda.bso there are invisible stories too!

      The other day I was listening to WGD’s recent podcast ( and very good it is too). Paul claimed that only one veto threat had been issued by Spain, and it wasn’t about Scotland!

      Spain will veto any EU Brexit agreement which will take Giraltar out of the EU.

      Here we hear about Spain vetoing Scotland, this false. We also hear about Spain’s claim on Gibraltar. BUT we never hear that Spain will stop Gibraltar being part of Brexit.

      http://chronicle.gi/2016/07/spain-could-veto-brexit-talks-margallo-says/

    54. Bob Mack says:

      Clearly they are trying to cement an image of social media nats as being the “devils spawn” Beligerent ,rude,cruel. Nothing further from the truth. Indeed,I admire my patience and the patience of other indy groups in dealing with the constant stream of vitriol and insults that eminate from these people.

      It is a battle of hearts and minds and they are trying to make us the “guy in the black hat”. Good riddance.

    55. Neil Cook @ 11.50.
      Hit them where it hurts, Neil.
      I noted somewhere that a Yoon B&B landlord was ‘terrified’ to comment on Independence in case he had a barrage of bogus bad reviews on TripAdvisor from a horde of cybernats invading his space, like cockroaches in his kitchen.
      You’re flogging Beds and Breakfasts, not your political view of the world that basically Scotland is shite.
      Whatever.
      I refuse to shop at ASDA, or buy the Herald. Endov.
      How dare I threaten people’s businesses like this, is the stock Yoon reply?

      They don’t do irony, do they?
      Boycott every man Jack of them who threaten us with closure during Indyref 2.
      They’re going to need a bigger boat next time.

    56. Murray McCallum says:

      I really don’t mind a critical article that goes against my own personal beliefs. A good quality article will contain detailed points backed up by fact.

      There is always something in quality articles you can take away thinking “that would be an improvement if such-and-such was incorporated”.

      Much of what I see from the traditional Scottish media contains little quality in terms of research, precision, backed-up critical opinion, etc.

      When I read “[..] accused”, “one party state”, “blow for [..]”, “threat to democracy in Scotland”, … I struggle to see what the writer is trying to achieve in the long term. It’s like a High School debating society.

      Unemployment is my usual conclusion.

    57. heedtracker says:

      My Slovene girlfriend lowering the UKOK bar once again. Prof Tomkinski would at least make sense if there was anything behind their sanctioning stuff. But dudes like this are only in it to drag Scottish democracy into the sewer of toryboy right to rein over us er, sewage.

      Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 54m54 minutes ago
      But don’t you dare call the SNP’s Scotland a one party state. Don’t you dare.

      Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 58m58 minutes ago
      Their legislation prompts the UK Supreme Court to talk of “the worst dictatorships” and “a totalitarian regime” –>

    58. tooz says:

      Is it the Union matters or is it the Union martyrs?

      Its like a Labour PLP ‘Choose the stooge event’, i wonder who is next on the list. ‘go on, its your turn to spit thy dummy…surely one if us doing it has to work’

      In the real world nobody really cares about any of these self important people.

    59. I’m surprised that sectarian WATP Adam Tomkins can find time from his fulltime job as Uni Professor, and his nice little non elected Part Time MSP ‘Listory’ Boy Tory spokesperson, to go on twitter making a right derriere of himself over freedom of speech.
      £1200 a week for doing fuck all. Where do I sign up?
      Wuckfit.

    60. Gary45% says:

      I am amazed the EBC never made a wee Tartan Neil Oliver in a wee plastic tube complete wi Hair for all the Scoons and empire luvies.
      He slags off Scotland because he is basically an Empire wannabe, when they have finished with him, the yoons wouldn’t even pish on him if he was fire.

    61. The Rough Bounds says:

      It beats me what Oliver and the rest of that pack are complaining about. It seems obvious to me that if you put your head on a coconut shy you can’t expect people not to throw things at it.

    62. heedtracker says:

      I’m surprised that sectarian WATP Adam Tomkins can find time from his fulltime job as Uni Professor,

      Why is he including/hiding behind twitter photos of his own very young children, along side his barking mad anti Scottish democracy stuff?

      If you are wondering just how low britnat toryboys can go, follow my Slovene girlfriend.

    63. Who or what is Stephen Daisley?

      is it on the telly?

    64. seanair says:

      Going back to Alan Roden, some time ago my wife pointed out an article in the Heil which she knew would upset me. I dashed off a comment and sent it to the Alan Roden
      e-mail address shown earlier in this discussion.
      Returned with a note “not at this address”. B—–d !

    65. sinky says:

      Cue a plethora of hysterical Yoon letters in Scotsman.

      This morning there six of the usual suspects taking umbrage at Nicola Sturgeon’s meeting with EU residents.

    66. Clootie says:

      …Labour developed the phantom story for election periods.
      The bad SNP are going to shut local station/A&E/school etc etc
      When the SNP stated that the story had no truth in it Labour would then announce ” Labour stops bad SNP closing….”

    67. Foonurt says:

      Aye, agin yoan waw, wae awe thoan anti-Scoattish basturts. Oannae ithurr country, huz folk prood ah thurr country. In Scoattlin, fuckin team GB, in awe yoan shite, fae ah mythical landscape.

      Labour/Liberals buullt six social-hooses. Wurr Scoattish SNP Government, buultt twintae-twaw thoosin, in thurtae-three thoosin approved-hooses, awe roon (2011-2016), bit stuull no gid inuff fur thoan erse Roaburtsin oan Radio Scoattlin. Ivrrae wan ah shite-sturrin fuck. Yoan jougs, iz too guid fur thae erses.

    68. Andrew McLean says:

      heedtracker says:19 August, 2016 at 12:25 pm
      “Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 54m54 minutes ago
      But don’t you dare call the SNP’s Scotland a one party state. Don’t you dare.
      Adam Tomkins MSP ?@ProfTomkins 58m58 minutes ago
      Their legislation prompts the UK Supreme Court to talk of “the worst dictatorships” and “a totalitarian regime” –>
      I don’t usually, but for a “Laugh” I had a peek at our earnest professors ramblings, well I am not laughing now. Clearly the man is a fool. And not in the old fashioned Shakespearean Touchstone or a Feste funny way either.

      In fact straight after reading, I immediately had my IQ tested and discovered it had fallen, therefore empirical proof that consorting with idiots is deleterious to one’s mental health.

      In future I shall think of this sad clown whenever I hear Canio’s aria, “Vesti la giubba”.

    69. Walter Scott says:

      It looks like a concerted all out attack on the SG now. After the recent political chaos it’s business as usual. A lot of people who believe their country should be independent will be very angry by the unionist parties & journalists who are now obviously working together. Where’s the hard hitting”Panorama” or C4 Despatches looking into this subversion of democracy.

    70. Sweep says:

      Tinto Chiel @ 12:08 pm:

      Re the Scottish Parliamentary Journalists’ Association –

      isn’t that the Spanner account?

    71. Clapper57 says:

      If one were really cynical one would think this was a conspired tactical assault on the SNP.

      Far be it for little old me to suggest the #QuittingTwitter brigade and gagged Journo is a ploy to reinforce the ‘one party state’ mantra .

      I am sure that no MSP’s from yoon parties will try and profit politically from this, I mean that would just be so so obvious.

      However in the surreal world…………where the real team GB live ….the neverendum battle to suppress Indy rages with radges ready to react on cue. Hold the front page as crazed psycho academics , uber wealthy writer’s, usual suspects MSP’s et al dive into the yoon cesspit and spew their rancid rantings.

      This is déjà vu territory and will not be the last …..big f**king yawn.

    72. Croompenstein says:

      Is he being replaced by Parsley the cat 🙂

    73. Chic McGregor says:

      ” I struggle to see what the writer is trying to achieve in the long term…

      …Unemployment is my usual conclusion.”

      Then we must applaud their remarkable success.

    74. Valerie says:

      No question in my mind this is a coordinated exercise that started with the Weetabix.

      Just think how desperate they are now, something’s working! They have to create this drama because there is nothing else for them to bite. Look at meeeee! No doubt they want traction from the south because it won’t work here.

      The Russians are coming, and they have Scottish talent on board. The Kingdoms seams are stretched to breaking point.

      Some of those assertions are verging on libel. They will have to be a whole brain smarter to catch out Wishart and Nicolson, they are Twitter vets, and know what they are doing. I think they are despised by these Twitter martyrs, for their deft behaviour.

      Please do what I do on Twitter, and block the nasty, sneering yoon tweeters, you don’t need them in your life.

      James Dornan got a whole load of abuse for passing comment about the Palestine flag at the recent football match. The comments were vile, so I just went down the thread blocking all the nasties.

      It’s tempting to jump in, but don’t, please. Give them nothing.

    75. HandandShrimp says:

      Surely Roden’s paper is far too busy traducing the name of a nurse, a nurse with more courage in her little finger than Roden’s entire flabby body.

    76. @Andrew McLean

      i fear Scotland has become a dumber place with part time MSP Tomkins in it,

      http://tinyurl.com/92deroo

    77. Arbroath1320 says:

      Oh look it’s silly season and the unionist *ahem* journalists have nothing (much) to do. So in kind memory of them all past (no longer on Twitter 😉 ) and present (still poisioning Twitter 😉 ) I give you :

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Fn36l_z3WY

    78. HandandShrimp says:

      A bit too busy to digest and dissect all this but the thing that springs immediately to mind is how badly served the Yoons are to have such a shower of craven fuds on their side.

      Nae Luck as they say 🙂

    79. Alex Clark says:

      It’s accelerating so it is, as Journos and other well known opponents of Independence fall on their swords and blame either the nasty cybernats or the SNP cos their BADDD.

      Whereas the truth is they have been strangled by having to face the sight of their own lies being ridiculed as they should be. I can’t imagine what it must be like for Torrence or Daisly having to look in the mirror every morning knowing that you have to spin another story against your countries best interests just to earn a crust. They lie for a living!

      I’d feel humiliated if I had to do that, though I doubt this pair and their compatriots have any sense of shame. The disgusting bias media have entirely lost the plot.

      They have also lost the argument, they have lost the trust of the people and despite what they wanted to achieve they will be the providers of Scottish liberation. They only think we’re stupid.

      Fucking Boo! Now away and greet to yer mammy.

    80. Stoker says:

      Walter Scott wrote:

      “A lot of people who believe their country should be independent will be very angry by the unionist parties & journalists who are now obviously working together.”

      They always have been, Walter!

      We need to step up our game and get the word out there.
      Talking is good but you can’t top handing people the hard physical evidence.

      Simple actions such as purchasing a wad of WOS business cards and saturating areas with them is within the capabilities of the vast majority of us.

      According to the WOS twitter yesterday the Rev’s mum was leading by example up in the Thurso area doing her bit with the cards. (((GAUN YERSEL, GIVE IT SOME REV’S))) see whit ah did there?

      Don’t just assume people out there know what we know, even your fellow independence supporters, you’ll be amazed at how little some folk are aware of outwith the WOS bubble.

      We have a duty and responsibility to open their eyes to the truth.

    81. ClanDonald says:

      Stephen Daisley illustrates how difficult it is to know where the tories end in the Scottish Media and where Labour begins.

    82. Croompenstein says:

      Has anyone actually spoken to Daisley to get a quote from the horses arse?

    83. Alex Clark says:

      @Croompenstein

      Some did try and found that shit comes out from both ends. No quote.

    84. David McEwan Hill says:

      What a star columnist Gordon Macintyre-Kemp is in the National. Today’s column is first class

    85. Liz g says:

      Soooo who do we reckon the next Twitter Quitter will be then.
      Are the bookies giving any odds?
      I am going to need a bigger bag of popcorn!

    86. Arbroath1320 says:

      This is not directly related to the article but is sort of unionist press related, in my cybernattery blinkered outlook on life. 😉

      https://www.rt.com/news/356422-russia-skynews-syria-actor/

      Of course this is not the first time that SKY has been caught with their hand in the cookie jar of made up stories.

      http://archive.is/gyje4

      I think, if anything, this confirms yet again that what passes as *ahem* principled journalism in Britain today is anything but principled. Obviously when it is a slow news day, and they want to do anything rather than report on the war with no name a.k.a. Yemen, they quite deliberately go out and make up shite just to fill air time!

    87. Calum McKay says:

      Same press and media work here as we see with Corbyn in England.

      Remember the office gate.

      mp resigns from shadow cabinet, month later a labour administrator enters office to check it’s empty and someone else can move in.

      Leaked to press as a breach of privacy and very sinister goings on.

      At the end of the day there are some decent journalists in both tv, radio, press and even bbc. But there are those at the top that use a few to distort events and give those stories prominence with the intention of steering the reader down a specific path of thought completely at odds with the truth or facts.

      He who pays the piper calls the tune, in the uk the uk government and establishment are both client and piper, in Scotland the uk government and establishment are both client and piper.

      In Scotland we need to have the Scottish people as the client and the piper being accountable to the people.

    88. K1 says:

      Stephen Daisley illustrates how difficult it is to know where the tories end in the Scottish Media and where Labour begins. to blame and ‘other’ sections of Scottish society in an attempt to cover up his own incompetence as a ‘journalist’.

    89. Ian Brotherhood says:

      This what it sounds like when the Yoons flounce…this is the sound

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMh3DMN8mok

    90. Proud Cybernat says:

      Probably should just drop this here. If anyone is in any doubt how blatantly biased the colonial media is in this country, just watch:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2bYajHIcXMk

      Don’t let the colonial media con you. Get the REAL FACTS.

    91. K1 says:

      ‘In Scotland we need to have the Scottish people as the client and the piper being accountable to the people.’

      No we don’t, we need to have competent and honest people, whether they are ‘Scottish’ is irrelevant. Scotland’s interests at heart yes, that they be ‘Scottish’…no.

    92. K1 says:

      Sorry Calum, I’ve misunderstood what you have written…I’m reading too fast and I need to slow down, please dismiss my last comment, ta. 🙂

    93. Inverclyder says:

      Perhaps the best idea is to make stuff up like them and play them at their own game.

      Stuff like…

      Dugdale confirms Scottish Labour are now pro Independence party of former Unionist Socialists in Scotland.

      Wee Wullie Rennie still irrelevant confirms local petting zoo and adventure playground owners.

      Holyrood rocked as unnamed Unionist MSP’s are caught in erotic romp in back of taxi.

      If you throw enough shite some of it will stick!

    94. heedtracker says:

      Andrew McLean says:
      19 August, 2016 at 1:04 pm
      heedtracker says:19 August, 2016 at 12:25 pm
      “Adam Tomkins MSP

      Well it’s extremely bad form, hiding behind very young children like Tomkinski’s doing. It is a rule britnat thing though, as a fair few red and blue tories in Scotland try to exploit a normal reaction of any adults, not actually wanting to involve any young children in adult politics.

      Just another creepy tory chancer or no different from the usual politician kissing baby electioneering photo ops? Prof T’s aiming for the Lords, law lord to be precise but its going to be interesting to see just how far he’s prepared to go, to actually get to that glittering trough of UKOK greatness.

    95. Arbroath1320 says:

      Just found out on Facebook that Danus Skene the SNP candidate for Orkney and Shetland has sadly passed away. ?

    96. Smallaxe says:

      @ Andrew Mclean

      “consorting with idiots is deleterious to one’s mental health”

      Andrew never argue with an idiot,they will only pull you down
      to their level and then beat you with experience. :-).
      Peace Always.

    97. Andrew McLean says:

      heedtracker says: 2:30

      “Prof T’s aiming for the Lords, law lord to be precise”

      No chance, he is to wee, to stupid and to poor.

      Oh hold on?

    98. mike d says:

      Neil oliver, an insignificant jumped up self opinionated little pr**k.

    99. Quentin Quale says:

      Good news for Tomkins’ students, though. When he hands your marked down essays back for not using facts or proper referencing to back up your argument, just say ‘you started it’ and claim an A pass.

    100. Hoss Mackintosh says:

      @Rev Stu,

      “And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren’t for you meddling WoS!” – Alan – the Phantom – Roden

    101. geeo says:

      “Don’t dare call Scotland a one party state”

      Says the MSP who is NOT from the SNP, which makes Scotland a minimum of a 2 party state….
      That’s before we mention labour, Greens, lib dems…

      This is why Sarcasm only works if you know what the fuck you are on about !!

    102. robertknight says:

      I too was hounded off facebook by vile attacks.

      Hang on, I’ve never had a facebook account.

      Never mind, I maintain that I was hounded off facebook by vile attacks.

      Can I get an article in a Yoon paper now? Please? I’m quite photogenic if that helps…

    103. Robert Louis says:

      What an absurdity the media in Scotland has become. Seriously, what a freaking joke. So-called ‘Scottish’ ‘journalists’ should be laughed at all the time now. They are an utter joke. Pathetic individuals the lot of them.

      As regards the BBC, I guess it is now compulsory for any new ‘Scottish’ TV presenters to regularly rubbish Scotland, half the electorate for voting SNP, and half the electorate for voting FOR Scottish independence.

      ‘Keep slagging off the SNP and your own country, Scotland, and we’ll see if we can get you that new ‘mini-series’ on the history of North Britain-shire we discussed’. It’s called selling out your own people, Neil.

    104. Robert Louis says:

      I have always wondered HOW Tompkinson got his position at Glasgow University. It is a question everyone, including Glasgow Uni students should be asking.

      That’s how Westminster exerts influence.

    105. Iain More says:

      On the subject of gagging I got myself banned from the Northern Scot FB page today after telling some Yoons that the Naw bags like them will just have to suck it up if Kinloss happens to get closed down.

      Yoon gagging and censorship reaches deep. They really don’t like it up them.

      Tasty bit of land right where those Kinloss runways are for any fast buck Yoon developer.

    106. louis.b.argyll says:

      Bad journalism makes us all look ignorant.
      Why are the LONG-TERM causes, of for example, inequality, not being investigated?
      Here’s one..
      UK..defence spending.. UP
      UK..Wages…DOWN.
      Germany..defence spending.. DOWN.
      Germany..Wages.. UP.

    107. Vestas says:

      For the second time in a few days I’m going to say the same thing :

      YOU CANNOT TRUST THE HERALD & TIMES GROUP AND THAT INCLUDES THE NATIONAL!

      I have no doubt at all that when push comes to shove then The National will stick the knife into the SNP to kill #indyref2. They’ve given lots of space to RISE/ex-RISE/SSP fuckwits (Cat Boyd take a bow) and the result of that was plain to see in last May’s election.

      The National is there for one reason only – to kill #indyref2 if its looks like winning. It’ll pick the moment and you’ll then have every MSM outlet pushing the “even the only indy supporting paper says the SNP are lying”.

      You wait & see….

    108. heedtracker says:

      I have always wondered HOW Tompkinson got his position at Glasgow University.

      Have you ever met a lawyer that’s not to the right of Attila the Hun? The more money they make, the more hard core conservative they get. On balance, most high pay professions are extremely UKOK. Its two countries in the one and its them what have to be won over.

      All that’s even remotely interesting about a nutcase like Prof T is, didn’t uni’s used to be the hot bed of Corbynite leftieness?

    109. carjamtic says:

      Just as,for example,the London’s black cabbies ‘the knowledge’ was replaced with satnav/smart phones,the dead tree press also, has had it’s time (has nobody told them,that encyclopedia britannica was replaced by internet search engines ?) most people are now digital natives,younger one’s have never known anything else.

      We can see now,however,that they are not going to go quietly,but by kicking and screaming,blaming everyone else for their misfortunes,their lies and prejudices exposed,they deflect,look look, at the cybernats,look look,the SNP are Baaad…..

      When future generations look back on this era,they will see the end of a very dark time,the initial rays of light,of the the new Scottish Enlightenment,they will see the beginnings of the return to truth and democracy.

      I just hope it is all saved,stored for them to study,to understand the way things used to be and to know never to return to the dark pages.Technology or not,in the end there is no substitute for decent,worthwhile human beings,for that is what you are and in your hands the future is looking bright for Scotland,looking safe for it’s people.

      #peoplepower

    110. Just seen the pictures of the poor wee laddie that was pulled from an airstrike bombed building in rebel held Aleppo Syria,

      hopefully this will make UK Gov rethink the RAF bombing cities in Syria,where it must be impossible to eradicate `collateral damage` or as it should be called `murder`.

    111. Robert Peffers says:

      I read this good article and had an instant thought when I reached the bit about Jackson Carlaw.

      The thought recalled the famous quote, often wrongly attributed to John Bogart, (former editor of the New York Times), – It was actually coined by Alfred Harmsworth, (a British newspaper magnate, in (1865–1922).


      “When a dog bites a man, that is not news, because it happens so often. But if a man bites a dog, that is news.”

      In this case I see it rather as,

      “When Jackson Carlaw tells lies that is not news, because it happens so often. But when Jackson Carlaw tells the truth it is time to hold the front page headlines”.

      You really have to wonder how these people hope to get away with such stupidity. I believe it to be a symptom of sheer unadulterated panic among the Yoons.

      Rather like the upper class twit who was startled when he chanced upon an honest plumber tradesman dressed in his working clothes. Thinking the working man a robber. The upper class twit ran off – Into the path of a Number Nine Bus and was seriously injured.

    112. louis.b.argyll says:

      It’s getting bad..
      About as much use as a..

      .chocolate fire-guard..
      .. handbrake on a canoe..
      .. JOURNALIST TO A SCOTSMAN..

    113. fred says:

      Has anyone notice just how many anti SNP coments there are on the Herald Website and how few pro SNP comment there are.
      aynone who post on Twitter are fair game for a back lash and should not whinge if they get a barrage of hate twits. Make your comment and leave it there don’r reply to a reply twit or comment.

    114. Cuilean says:

      I have a deep loathing of Hoy. Detest the very sight of him.

    115. Brent Crude over $50 a barrel,

      great news for our Scottish oil industry,

      hopefully that will be the headline in tomorrow`s newspapers.

    116. heedtracker says:

      A YERer wins again but cant mind the last time he actually lost. Its always heart warming to think how hard UKOK hackdom struggles to cope with a world famous Scotsman.

      http://www.andymurray.com/

    117. Valerie says:

      @Heed

      Aye! I’ve seen a few solicitors that are left wing, like the ones in SNP! My own MP is a solicitor who specialises in immigration issues.

      Stuart MacDonald, a lovely guy.

      Also strikes me Joanna Cherry could be earning more money outside of WM, but chooses SNP, because she believes in change.

    118. Tinto Chiel says:

      O/T but may be a phantom pregnancy so mebbes no’.

      http://newsnet.scot/archive/podcast-simon-pia-old-labour-habits-conversion-yes/

      Does Simon say sooth?

    119. heedtracker says:

      YESer! wins again.

    120. liz says:

      This madness from the MSM has increased exponentially since Brexit.

      They must be very worried indeed about the outcome if Scotland leaves AND Eng/Wales chucked out of the biggest market

    121. cirsium says:

      @scott finlayson, 3.57pm

      that picture was provided by The White Helmets who only operate in areas controlled by the terrorist organisation, Jaish al fatah. Their standard propaganda picture is a dust and blood covered child being carried by a White Helmet operative. The White Helmets was founded by an ex-MI6 operative and the current leader was refused admission to the United States because of links to terrorists. Have a read of this post for more information http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/08/the-wounded-boy-in-orange-seat-another-staged-white-helmets-stunt.html#comments

      Moon of Alabama is a media analysis site.

      This is not the first time that The National has printed propaganda. The circulation for Newsquest papers is reported under the regional papers heading not national. It is not clear, therefore, why the paper is reporting on areas outwith its remit.

    122. Valerie says:

      Here’s your Friday smile, courtesy of the right side of the debate. So talented, our lot.

      https://twitter.com/ValerieRooney1/status/766613253006958592

    123. Edward says:

      As the day wears on………..

      What was a lead story on the Herald, now turns out (unsurprisingly) as a load of tosh.

      What intrigues me is why it took two Herald ‘journalists’ to write up that load of garbage in the first place

      Daniel Sanderson I could understand as he seems to be on speed dial from Labour spin doctors as he churns out ‘SNP Bad’ stories at the merest whiff of a Labour briefing.

      But Tom Gordon, now there is something weird going on there. Tom took to twitter to demonstrate how bad the SNP MP Nicolson was, only to expose himself as a charlatan as the examples were hardly what you call ‘newsworthy’

      But the Tory’s were quick to jump on the bandwagon with tweets from the idiotic Adam Tomkins (Apparently a professor by trade) and wee Ruthie ‘Tank commander’

      So to the lad himself, former Tory press person under ‘Grande Dame’ Anabelle Goldie, Stephen Daisley.
      Has he been sacked?. Has he left on his own accord?
      Is he actually being moved with STV?

      Like all Scooby Doo mystery’s we will not know until later in the summer when parliament is back and we find out what actually is going on. But by then the Scottish press will have moved on to its next piece of mind numbing stupidy

    124. Proud Cybernat says:

      Just a quick message to the colonial media formerly known as the MSM.

      At least half of Scotland is still laughing at you. You really ought to try much harder (sniggers).

    125. Dr Jim says:

      @Scot Finlayson

      Oil price up again
      More bad news for Scotland, if only it would stay low so’s it would at least be consistant gloom instead of rising only to be told it’ll fall again to it’s lowest ever level leaving Scotland and the SNPs hopes of Independence left in tatters once again
      Nicola Sturgeon will be left distraught as her ambitions are smashed and dashed upon the rocks of despair

      If only Scotland had good oil
      If the SNP give up the stupid notion of independence the oil will be cured

    126. call me dave says:

      North Ayrshire Labour leader Peter McNamara stands down, days after instigating moves to oust SNP

      https://archive.is/6mUZ7

      Funny old world init!

    127. Valerie says:

      @cirsium

      I had a funny feeling that poor wee boy was staged. I have no doubt he was dazed from having dirt, dust and fake blood thrown at him. But even BBC reported he had been released from hospital, which must have been garbage, as they made out he had a head wound.

      Unfortunately, quite a few SNP MPs were tweeting the pic and commenting.

      I’m not in any way undermining the point about children in war zones, because it is a global shame to humanity, what is happening.

      However, the White Helmet propaganda is aimed at getting the West to drop more bombs on ‘Assad’, and to hell what happens to real people.

      Makes me sick at the level of lies and subterfuge.

      MoA recently uncovered that the Doctors who had written a collective letter to Obama, to step up action were either dead, or Al Qaeda, literally trolling POTUS.

      RT are very careful about Syria, stating they are checking sources before they report. And its not that they are complicit, because I’ve seen footage of live combat action and very scared journalists.

    128. Fireproofjim says:

      Cirsium@5.51
      I don’t think I have ever read such a stupid comment on Wings. The small injured boy was obviously badly shocked and cut, and to say this was a propaganda picture is heartless and callous, however it was obtained.
      As for throwing in another stupid comment about the National printing propaganda, every other paper and every news broadcast had the same pictures.
      And what , anyway, does “reporting on areas without its remit ” mean? Does the National have to print only stories from Scotland?

    129. Camz says:

      So can we expect a ‘Scottish Six’ to appear with Torrance as anchor, Daisley as political correspondent, and Oliver as the cultural/historical presenter?

      It would not surprise me one little iota.

    130. ScottishPsyche says:

      Just catching up with this story.

      Tom Gordon has inferred all sorts of things backed up by Alex Massie. Guido Fawkes is running a poll on how corrupt the SNP are – I know it is regional corruption but his readership are Kippers and the 1922 Committee so go figure the result.

      Slab and their leader Ruth Davidson have piled in with reports of outrageous burly men gagging people and Adam Tompkins appears to have lost lost his mind and all sense of perspective.

      Spanner and Rowling have to make an intervention soon but I feel so tainted when I lurk on their accounts that I’d rather not know.

    131. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Scot Finlayson @ 15:57

      … hopefully this will make UK Gov rethink the RAF bombing cities in Syria

      Sorry Scot, but you have this completely wrong. The article itself was rather coy about the perpetrators, but the bombing in Aleppo is being carried out solely by Assad forces (barrel bombs from helicopters) and the Russians. Western airforces operate in the east (Syria/Iraq), targeting Daesh.

      Just to get the facts straight, as befitting this site.

    132. heedtracker says:

      Valerie says:
      19 August, 2016 at 5:06 pm
      @Heed

      Aye! I’ve seen a few solicitors that are left wing, like the ones in SNP!

      I know and I use big brushes, for effect. Fact is though, my Slovene girlfriend will be lecturing in the main, private school educated under grads this year, as he’s done since ever. And for ever progressive liberal lawyer, there are hundreds of tories and all of them determined that the law should not now, nor ever be reformed.

      St Snatcher Thatcher gets a lot of praise from usual tory sources over how she was the great tory reformer and deregulationerisor, of all kinds of UK stuff what needed it, like the bally unions or the City or the media, giving most of it to her allies like Rupert and co, but the fact is, the old monster totally bottled it with the lawyers. Its not by chance either.

    133. Arbroath1320 says:

      call me dave says:
      19 August, 2016 at 5:33 pm

      North Ayrshire Labour leader Peter McNamara stands down, days after instigating moves to oust SNP

      https://archive.is/6mUZ7

      Funny old world init!

      Let me guess … I’m only guessing here mind. 😉

      It was a big boy who made me do it and then ran away. I didnae want tae dae it … honestly … I really REALLY didnae want tae dae it! 🙂

    134. Arbroath1320 says:

      Unless something has happened during my recent sabatical 😉 then I think this guy has been helping wee Ozzy the towel folder to clean up on the white powder mysteries.

      JimRobertson ?@BeTruthful55 2m2 minutes ago Scotland, United Kingdom

      @0604Arb1320 @DanDareMeekon @BjCruickshank Not at all. GERS is figured out by the SNP Scottish Govt.

    135. Valerie says:

      @Fireproof Jim

      Read the link and the comments. No one is being heartless, but pointing out this young boy is being used as a tool.

      It’s a bit ironic that we call out yoon journalism but think for some reason propaganda, in a regime overthrow, cant be happening.

      What about Chilcot?

    136. Vestas at 3.44

      Utter rubbish

    137. Clapper57 says:

      @Edward at 5.23pm

      well said , another good post by you.

    138. Valerie says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      The West only target Da’esh? Aye?

      How come the Western alliance of more than a dozen countries, can’t wipe out a rag tag bunch of terrorists?

      Oh right, that will be because those alleged terrorists have brand new Toyotas (faster on the terrain) and expensively adapted with military upgrades. Why do they have so much American firepower? They are even using drones now.

      There is so much written now about these sources, you have to be the last of the naive, believing bullshit the likes of Hillary Benn believes.

      The UK is in Syria doing very little, but want to be in on any spoils, so we are in illegally. Iraq and Libya are hellholes due to these USA/UK ventures, but you think Syria is different???

      Even if you believe the UK is doing something to Da’esh, how is that working out for France, one of the key bombers, and how is it protecting the French?

      Where is the money coming from for these dirt poor jihadists?

    139. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I reckon this exit-fest is a positive thing, a sign that yoon propagandists are increasingly feeling the argument slipping away from them, and try to place the blame on others for the inadequacy of their own case.

      It’s like someone hanging onto a ledge by the fingertips, feeling their grip slowly weaken, and falsely blaming someone else for stepping onto their hands. But they’re going to fall whatever, undermined by their own absurd denial of reality.

      By all means boycott The Herald, it doesn’t seem to be living up post-Brexit to its own earlier promise. (Another convenient indyref mini-Vow, it would seem.) In a way though it doesn’t matter if papers like it and the Hootsmon hang on as little BritNat enclaves, since they will have diminishing influence anyway for anyone else.

      What’s desperately needed is a far stronger media presence for indy than at present, with real popular traction. Not necessarily in print, either. Vestas has a point about The National, it does appear at times to be run by RISE types whose interest in independence is only as a convenient means to a quite different end, and which in any case is a minority view with little influence upon those people who really need to be convinced now.

      There’s a lot up for grabs. A lot of people wavering, and just needing a good dose of straight facts about indy.

    140. heedtracker says:

      I have no doubt at all that when push comes to shove then The National will stick the knife into the SNP to kill #indyref2. They’ve given lots of space to RISE/ex-RISE/SSP fuckwits (Cat Boyd take a bow) and the result of that was plain to see in last May’s election.

      Don’t trust any of them, is a good start. The whole of the UKOK media gave the Scotish fringe left a giant soap boc, from the National to Channel 4 news, and then instantly whipped it away the minute polling stations closed.

      But look at the actual stand out result, SLabour vote going to Ruth Davidson’s brand of hard core yoonsterism and working class conservative bullshit.

      Was that the intent of the National or the whole of the UKOK media SNP bad freak show in Scotland last time, by boosting up dudes like Loki to media stardom, resulting in his current personal SNP bad fund raiser, pulling in cash from all kinds of hard core tory nutters, starting at Kevin Hague, with graphs?

    141. DerekM says:

      You would think by now they would have figured out that we dont give a fuck about being called vile cybernats.

      Go on yoon zoomers throw your toys out the pram make up your bullshit aggrievances at being abused every time you do another Scot wakes up to your inability to debate any kind of good facts about this cess pit union.

      Thats what its all about yoons isnt it you dont have any lies left so now just regurgitate old spin lies from the past.

      Oh and yoons with the skelpt arse for a face you have not been targeted by the cybernat trolls we are far to busy trolling brexit England to care about your little hissy fits.

    142. Inverclyder says:

      OT Absolutely shocked at the Welsh separatist inspiring display nationalism at the Olympics with the taekwondo winner on ITV news there.

      She had a Welsh Flag and a butchers apron too!

      If that had been a Scottish competitor it would have been cut and a full enquiry along with outrage on twitter by the usual suspects.

    143. David says:

      @ Inverclyder, nobody else mentioned it, but triathlon winner Brownlee was waving a, whisper it, Yorkshire flag yesterday. Shocking! 🙂

      (Nice flag actually, white rose on a blue background.)

    144. Dan Huil says:

      The growing desperation of the britnat media is surely a sign that britnats recognize IndyRef2 will definitely happen – and soon.

    145. Hamish100 says:

      FLags again

      http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/14694016.UEFA_open_disciplinary_proceedings_against_Celtic_for_Palestine_flag_display/?ref=mr&lp=3

      If Celtic is being taken to task for a Palestinian flag being flown at a recent football match why not the Irish Tricolour or for that other foreign team Rangers when they wave the butchers apron.

      No better flag than the saltire

    146. Dorothy Devine says:

      Arbroath, those links have vanished in the ether.

    147. Tam Jardine says:

      Scot Finlayson 

      The oil price going back up just highlights how volatile a commodity it us.

      I sometimes wonder why anyone bothers with it at all. It’s hard to get out the grun and can get aw o’er yer hauns – a nightmare to get oot a claithes etc. For us savages it is mair bother than it is worth. Best left to the masters (or so they tell us).

      One thing that is bizarre though- a low oil price is a compelling argument against independence but a high oil price is not a compelling argument for independence?

    148. Phydaux says:

      The phantom news practisioners seem to be spooked by their increasing utter irrelevance and certain demise as they are excised, like a cancer, out of our body politic.These preposterous people are named and shamed every day by Stuart.Further enlightenment is provided by WOS contributors words of wisdom, depth of knowledge and experience.Bursting with ideas and theories which are challenged and investigated, evidence gathered and examined.Plus lots of laugh out loud ridicule.

      This is why I come here and why I think of WOS as another burgeoning Scottish Enlightenment where it is vitally important for people to think for themselves rather than simply believing what they’re told.Their ideas and advances helped to shape the modern world.

      I was struck by the contrast with the previous post ( Merci beaucoup for this Stuart ) .. such a refreshing change of perspective and very skilfully crafted and the embarrassing drivel from our gutter press.

      Regarding yet another wild hen harrier fledgling mysterious disappearance… we seem to have our very own Bermuda Triangle situated over the grouse moors of Aberdeenshire.There’s little mystery however as to the likely perpetrators who shoot to kill wild and beautiful birds perceived as an enemy…probably see themselves as renegade commandos.Those who are employed in the grouse moor industry of blood sports and licensed to carry guns in the Bermuda Triangle area should perhaps be accompanied/monitored and a temporary ban on killing grouse during wildlife crime investigation.Shine a brighter light on their activities and expose them to far greater scrutiny.

    149. Tinto Chiel says:

      “David says:
      @ Inverclyder, nobody else mentioned it, but triathlon winner Brownlee was waving a, whisper it, Yorkshire flag yesterday.”

      Vile Ecky Thump Separatist!

      Mind you, most Yorkshire folk I have met regard their county as Echt England and the surrounding counties mere appendages.

    150. Hamish100 says:

      Arbroath1320 says:

      19 August, 2016 at 5:54 pm

      call me dave says:
      19 August, 2016 at 5:33 pm

      North Ayrshire Labour leader Peter McNamara stands down, days after instigating moves to oust SNP

      https://archive.is/6mUZ7

      Funny old world init!

      Let me guess … I’m only guessing here mind. ?

      It was a big boy who made me do it and then ran away. I didnae want tae dae it … honestly … I really REALLY didnae want tae dae it! ?

      Maybe Alex Gallagher often writer to the Herald will try and become leader. He dresses up as a Viking noo so be warned!! No doubt they thought the would let the snp struggle on until the elections next year. Their bluff has been called.

    151. Free Scotland says:

      If cybernats are damaging the independence cause, why are unionists so keen to vilify them? Why all this concern?

      The real reason for the unionists’ dislike of independence supporters who are active in cyberspace is that they expose the shabbiness of the unionists’ contribution to the debate.

    152. Bob Mack says:

      Re the child in the Syria video. If you look at the picture,he does indeed have a head wound of some 3cm x2cm under his hairline. You can see it as he brushes back his hair. He is clearly in a state of shock,which I have seen many times. I do not believe this was staged. Look at his eyes. He is far, far away.
      I have seen the same expression on military men with battle stress. The 1000 mile stare.

    153. Edward says:

      Any (very thin) respect I had for Tom Gordon has just sailed out the window.

      Just seen a retweet on the WOS twitter feed from Tom Gordon
      “I wonder if @jk_rowling will be commenting on the @JournoStephen situation”

      This has to be one of the more bizarre comments from a so called journalist who wrote up a made up article

      Either he is trying to wind people up, or he really has lost grasp of any reality (probably the latter)

    154. Breeks says:

      To put this into perspective?

      All of us enjoyed the Charlie Hebdo cartoon, which was all about satire, making a point but hopefully having a chuckle at the same time. Then one day, two humourless men armed with assault rifles walk in to your offices and kill 11 people and wound 11 more. I don’t know how you go back to work after that, and try again to make people smile, but they did, because they believe what they are doing is important.

      Then we come to Scotland, with our petulant Weetabix head, a would be historian who’s made a good living for himself shovelling stuff for the cameras, and Stephen Daisley, who frankly I’ve never heard of because the Borders doesn’t even get STV, all have a tantrum because the people of Scotland are all waking up to the shite which passes for journalism and state run broadcasting.

      It’s like some 50’s black and white B movie, with the plucky stiff upper lip back room boffins trying everything known to 1950’s science to keep the damn cork in the independence bottle while the needle in the pressure gauge sweats it’s way deeper and deeper into the red zone.

      Know what Unionist journo’s? Man the feck up, and this time when we are having a constitutional debate, put that cork into the propaganda orifice and ram it in tight, then as one country, let us sit down and have a no holds barred objective and informed discussion about the countries future. No hate, argue if we must, but let us all strive manfully to keep the debate constructive and progressive and find an answer we can all of us live with.

      We all know what happened in 2014, the propaganda and Project Fear did the business for the Union, except it didn’t, did it? Less than two years have passed and the issues which might have been settled for a generation in a fair and honest referendum are every inch as raw and vital now as they were in 2014. Medals and ermine for your generals, and a squalid reputation in tatters for the rest of you. The YES referendum didn’t settle a damn thing for anybody.

      I’m left wondering if Unionism has any case at all, or is it just rooted in a base human fear, like arachnophobia or agoraphobia, or some other fear that feels visceral and deep rooted within, but where the cure is to face your fear and teach your brain to recognise how irrational your thought process is actually being.

      If you want to be journalist, why not revert yourself to factory settings and try again to be a good one? Maybe even a great one. Give it some thought journos. Indyref2 will be playing for keeps and it won’t go away because you delete your Twitter account.

    155. Lenny Hartley says:

      o/T Margaret Ferrier Snp mp refers to the U.K. As “our Nation” on RT . FFS what chance have we got if our elected representatives have not got a clue on the constitutional arrangements of the U.K.

    156. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Breeks,

      Well said there.

      “The truth will set you free”, as the old saying goes.

      Which naturally begs the question, how to get it effectively out there…?

    157. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Frankie Boyle was a speaker in Holyrood Sec’s debating team, a good few years after me. In his first volume of autobiography he mentions Pat Slaven, the teacher who was responsible for the team.

      I remember Mrs Slaven taking us to Glasgow Uni one freezing winter night (must’ve been 79/80-ish) to see the final of some major debating competition. Main reason she took us was to see John Nicolson doing his thing.

      He was, at that time, perhaps 18 or 19 years old, and utterly awesome. His command of the chamber was just extraordinary. He seemed to enjoy interventions, appeared to do most of his speech without any reference to notes, and utterly destroyed the opposition arguments. I did a lot of gigs with the school team, and we were okay, but he was in a different class entirely and I’ve rarely seen as good a speaker in all the years since.

      IMO, that’s partly why the yoons are grabbing this (manufactured?) opportunity to gun for John Nicolson – they’re afraid of him, and with good reason. In open, live debate, with a fair moderator? He’d wipe the fucking floor with each and every one of them, then use Bloater McBawface to polish it.

    158. Artyhetty says:

      Fab comment re;Breeks@7.55pm

      Breeks, unionism is not a phobia, it is a planned, orchestrated, historic need. A need to hold onto a gross power, a power structure built on bullying, lies and corruption. We are fcuked unless there is support from the EU to throw off the UKOK chains, while remaining an important wheel in the cog of life affirming, forward thinking cooperation among countries, dedicated to creating a decent future for our kids and grandkids.

      Unionism is a myth in the UK, a destructive, negative, snooping, sinister organisation. One which Scotland needs to be free of as soon as possible, before it is too late.

    159. Iain says:

      It’s a shame, nobody reads the yoon rags any more. Nobody but the sadly misinformed would believe the yoon media. They need to recognize that their credibility has gone. Tell a lie, once and people will not believe you again when you spout your crap.
      Tell repeated lies and people will never believe a word you say ever again, this is the situation in Scotland.
      It will be a problem when Scotland is independent, as a huge percentage of the Scottish public will have a huge distrust of the msm even if the bbc and Stv are shut down. They are playing with fire. They don’t know what they are doing.

    160. heedtracker says:

      Their real problem is that Scotland doesn’t care about cybernats, and isn’t that interested anyway. Every Scot, knows exactly what every other Scot they know thinks about Scotland running Scotland, so its not as if UKOK hackdom can get going with their extra special dehumanising, monstering and all out demonising abilities.

      And they really are a spectacular clusterfudge of journalistic buffoonery. This idiot hasn’t got the UKOK stones to just actually ask their great leaderene of Britnat yoonery in Scotland for help.

      Tom Gordon ?@HTScotPol 4h4 hours ago
      I wonder if @jk_rowling will be commenting on the @JournoStephen situation?

    161. Valerie says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Completely agree about John Nicolson. The smearfest is keen to prove there is something wrong about John, when in fact its rabid jealousy about John’s obvious intellect, style and delivery.

      John is very polished in all his performances, he puts the work in, and he knows how to question. He won a great deal of admiration across the board for his committee performance on the BBC. People south of the Border openly paying him lovely compliment s, and many wishing he was their MP.

      Ordinary people with no axe to grind simply giving credit.

      The SNP WM group are cohesive, organised and intelligent. They have worked their socks off.

      You can see why something has to be done to bring them down. They have tried with the females, these are the next targets.

    162. Iain More says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      I am pretty sure if my memory hasn’t totally gone that John Nicolson was a former World Uni Debating Champion. Add his debating skill to his obvious media savvy and of course the Yoons are going to go for him. There has been more than attempt to smear him already.

      Oh and I saw him debate as well back then. He made the Yoon monkeys look and sound even less than that. It wouldn’t surprise me if he made more than a few Yoon enemies from those days as well because he made them look and sound like a right shower of c!!!s.

    163. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      heed:

      Their real problem is that Scotland doesn’t care about cybernats, and isn’t that interested anyway.

      You are probably right. It’s a rehashed attempt to paint all Yessers as fringe extremists, but it’s hard to sustain when so many ordinary people have voted for a very cautious SNP with a very level-headed leader, and the sky hasn’t fallen in as per yoon predictions. Counter-productive actually, as we all know, but they apparently still don’t realise.

      Maybe “word of mouth” is not a bad strategy after all. Not pontifications from self-appointed “opinion-formers”, but from trusted neighbours and friends in a sort of popular chain-reaction.

      Assisted by a good dose of satire, which can tell the truth in a direct and readily-accepted way.

    164. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Valerie –

      Precisely so.

      It should also be borne in mind that observers with no dog in the fight are capable of making objective assessments of the strengths and weaknesses of individual players as well as whatever party they may represent.

      Like hundreds of thousands of other pro-indy supporters, I’m not a member of the SNP. That’s not to say we can claim to be entirely without bias. Who is? But even a cursory scan of the main movers and shakers on the current Scottish scene is telling – the BTUKOKers have very few characters of real quality. The flight of Torrance, Oliver and the like may be a welcome respite for many of ‘us’, but will also be perceived as an alarm-bell by The Establishment – some of their more prominent gimps have made a dash for it, and those left behind will be getting restive.

      Quelle dommage, eh?

    165. heedtracker says:

      Rancid The Graun wheels out Scotland again, in their ongoing and very creepy tory crucifying JC campaigning

      http://archive.is/diCIx

      The letter, signed by representatives from England, Wales and Scotland, says the councillors do not have faith in Jeremy Corbyn’s “weak leadership”, warning that the country faces an existential threat from the vote to leave the EU with a potential second Scottish referendum looming.”

      That berk Wullie Young’s definitely not a Corbynista, so he’s one of the red tory thousand.

    166. Robert Kerr says:

      Annent that Q-person who did “coast” for EBC.

      Please view this superb BBC Aberdeen documentary on Roman invasions of Caledonia presented by Dr Fraser Hunter. “Scotland – Rome’s Final Frontier”

      Compare and contrast!

      Enjoy this one.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUhY8A1FnHY

    167. stewartb says:

      Breeks @ 7.55pm says:

      “If you want to be journalist, why not revert yourself to factory settings and try again to be a good one? Maybe even a great one. Give it some thought journos. Indyref2 will be playing for keeps and it won’t go away because you delete your Twitter account.”

      Spot on, Breeks – and this is NOT a demand for agreement with the pro-indy side of the argument but a demand for a serious, professional, evidence-based and well-argued, analytical approach by journalists to their chosen profession on an issue that still needs to be settled. The time for cheap jibes and daft games (from any source) is over!

    168. Clydebuilt says:

      By now Daisley’s Boss Bernardo Ponse on Abody has had time to read this article……. Shurely there’s no chance Daisley will ever appear on air for STV.

    169. Robert J. Sutherland at 8.59

      With you there,Robert. It’s how you frame things.

    170. yesindyref2 says:

      Being savaged by the Daily Mail section of the Herald is probably going to be an ambition of every aspiring politician, in a similar way to being ridiculed by the Punch section of the Spectator.

      A thousand years from now, who’ll know the difference?

    171. @Robert J. Sutherland

      didn`t say the RAF were the ones that bombed the little kid in Aleppo,

      there are little kids in all cities in Syria north,south,west and east,

      little kids,mothers,the aged,non combatants all get injured or die when you start bombing cities,

      i was hoping the picture of the injured boy might make the UK Gov rethink their policy of RAF airstrikes with Brimstone missiles.

    172. yesindyref2 says:

      I see there are comments about Neil Oliver deleting his Twitter account but to be fair, it’s probably the first time he’s ever shown any passion about anything in his public life. His history is as dry as a jar full of dessicated old bones.

    173. I’m afraid we are being fed a crock of shit on Syria and too many sensible and decent people are believing it. US and its wee brother started funding Islamic extremists against Assad in 2007 because Assad blocks the way to Iran.

      We then started pretending we were dealing with these elements until Russia came in at the invitation of the President of Syria to do the job properly.
      Assad is the legitimate ruler of Syria,recognised as such by the UN, and has significant majority support in the country.

      The distortion of the situation in Aleppo by our media is breathtaking. Aleppo was attacked and taken by anti government Islamic extremist rebels. This apparently is somehow the fault of Assad. He’s not supposed to do anything about it?
      I suppose if some nutters took over Carlisle the UK government would send in troops with coffee and buns.

    174. Fred says:

      “Would you buy a used car from Jackson Carlaw?” That was his problem!

    175. North chiel says:

      sick to the back teeth listening to the “Lewis Macdonald party political broadcast” on
      it would appear his ” own exclusive radio station ” today , on the hour ( every hour), North sound 2,
      criticising staff reductions in his local fire& rescue service. ” SNP/Scotgov bad” . ” Broken record” on the Northsound 2 turntable .

    176. heedtracker says:

      Robert J. Sutherland says:
      19 August, 2016 at 8:58 pm
      heed:

      What ever they say about the SNP and this nascent Scottish democracy of ours, you really can say whatever you think. There is no Big SNP brother shrieking like a rancid The Graun/Herald/BBC hack/super-rich plagiarising Rowlingesque chancer, furiously demanding silence, blocking, banning, dehumanising anyone. There isn’t even an SNP BBC, lying to us daily, desperately brain washing us into worshipping so and so royals billionaires, Lord Wet Fart toryboy party donor. They don’t even think they have that grand old SLabour right to rein over us, happy and glorious shit going on.

      Its just you and me Robert, you and me. Technically, between the ears of your average toryboy hack, and according to freak outs like rancid The Graun, not only are we an “existential threat” to their country, we shouldn’t even exist, let alone be voting SNP. How does that make you feel, fellow existential threat:D

      Also, I don’t know what existential means but if it means the end of England’s control of Scotland is approaching, I like it.

    177. uno mas says:

      If anyone fancies a change of topic there´s this…

      Discovered this interesting short video and thought I should share it with you all as an antidote to the modern version of athletics vis the Rio Olympics and a reminder of when the fastest man in the world was from Tranent.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjYlwCZPiY4

    178. Still Positive. says:

      Fred @ 9.54

      No. But in 1997 I said I wouldn’t buy a used car from Tony Blair.

      However, I have never voted for a Labour MP in Scotland. Voted SNP in every election they stood for since 1974.

    179. heedtracker says:

      The Ligger piles in. Murdoch’s favourite attack twerp boosts Alex Massie, who take just one more stinky toryboy weewee over anything and everything Scottish democracy.

      Andrew Neil ?@afneil 5h5 hours ago
      THE SPECTATOR: Now the SNP are in power their skin seems to have thinned

    180. Andrew McLean says:

      cirsium says:
      19 August, 2016 at 5:11 pm
      @scott finlayson, 3.57pm

      that picture was provided by The White Helmets who only operate in areas controlled by the terrorist organisation, Jaish al fatah. Their standard propaganda picture is a dust and blood covered child being carried by a White Helmet operative. The White Helmets was founded by an ex-MI6 operative and the current leader was refused admission to the United States because of links to terrorists. Have a read of this post for more information http://www.moonofalabama.org/2016/08/the-wounded-boy-in-orange-seat-another-staged-white-helmets-stunt.html#comments

      Moon of Alabama is a media analysis site.

      This is not the first time that The National has printed propaganda. The circulation for Newsquest papers is reported under the regional papers heading not national. It is not clear, therefore, why the paper is reporting on areas outwith its remit.

      I smell shite. Really hardcore shite, so where is it coming from? excellent paragraph separation by the way, just like you get if you cut and paste. Also excellent use of triggers, mi6 and terrorist! Working together, not for the first time in your sad little mind I will bet.

      By the way wings over Scotland is a bulshit analyst site, and you were just exposed.

      Oh and just for future reference, don’t use dead children, and don’t think wings are frequented by uneducated inexperienced idiots.

      As a old friend used to say when coming across your type, “you were in you’re dads bag when I was in Baghdad”.

    181. yesindyref2 says:

      @Scot Finlayson
      Do you mean rethink its air strikes, or rethink Brimstone? Reason I ask is that at £100,000 a shot, Brimstone is supposed to be the safest way of fire and forget as if it doesn’t identify its target, it self-destructs. In addition it’s 45 Kg of explosive which is relatively small, enough to destroy a tank or armoured vehicle but not destroy a whole building. Apparently.

    182. heedtracker says:

      Why Murdoch thinks the Ligger’s an ideal henchman in the BBC isn’t always that clear but here’s what the Ligger thinks is SNP thin skin, or something. Planet toryboy ain’t what it used to be. In UKOK hackdom that says a tory hacks been fired and assorted toryboys no longer tweeting is their headline news,

      http://archive.is/uFTXZ

      SNP bad, mostly but

      “Still, there is a hostility towards the media – a hostility bordering on paranoia – which is not altogether healthy.

    183. Andrew McLean says:

      Heady

      “Still, there is a hostility towards the media – a hostility bordering on paranoia – which is not altogether healthy.”

      Really? This is a question as old as time, to quote the satires of Juvenal, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Latin phrase found in the work of the Roman poet Juvenal from his Satires “Who will guard the guards themselves?”

      There was an enquiry? Levison?

    184. Gary45% says:

      North Chiel@9.59
      If you are ever in the company of one of SLabs finest!!!?? Lewis MacDonald, ask him if he is still proud of making a complete AR*E of the roads maintenance when it was his watch.
      He was in charge when Bear took over gritting the A9
      IT WAS A SHAMBLES, his office fobbed me off with the usual SLab garbage excuses at the time.
      To call him a FUD would be detrimental to FUDS everywhere.
      O/T
      Sad news about Danus Skene,
      Our day will come. RIP

    185. heedtracker says:

      From another super rich tory hack that paid a million quid to stop Scottish democracy 2014…

      J.K. Rowling ?@jk_rowling 5h5 hours ago
      So anyway, this has made my day.
      Reading ‘Harry Potter’ Influences How Americans View Donald Trump

    186. carjamtic says:

      Heedtracker @ 10:48

      Just back from one of those big piles of rust in the North Sea,free newspapers,in the coffee lounges,delivered daily,P&J,The Daily Mail,The Scotsman,Daily Express and The Times 4 copies of each.

      I thought I would spoil them by checking the accuracy of my 10 metre projectile vomiting (exorcist style),but found there was no need,they lay untouched as if people were too embarressed to even pick them up (except for one copy of the Times which was neatly folded in half).

      On the iron bird from Shetland to Eberdeen,a free copy of the Spectator,was in the pouch of every seat (Eastern Airways) I must confess I took it home to save any future unsuspecting passengers.

      Well we all have to do our bit,I even thumbed it,as a wee reminder to myself,(when you open it up an imaginary voice warns “brace for impact”) it is truly horrific ,usual highly offensive stuff ‘How shooting aids wildlife’ an article about grouse shooting by Matt Ridley.

      They are reduced to giving them away for free,I think we know why.

      Anybody need a cage liner for their budgie ?

    187. @yesindyref2

      basically rethinking all RAF airstrikes on cities,towns,villages,

      did two of the Brimstone missiles not fall off one of the RAF planes,

      p://tinyurl.com/z6e47tt

    188. Andrew McLean says:

      Heady,
      To much Twitter is not good for you!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivbO3s1udic

    189. Phronesis says:

      ‘…freedom of the press should not be seen as merely the freedom of those rich enough to own a newspaper or media outlet to publish and be damned, rather it should be seen in the context of debates about journalism itself, its function, its history, its purported democratic role and its often complex sense of self-identity’
      (Steel, 2012:23. ‘Journalism and Free Speech’).

      A resilient system is complex and adaptive, innovates and is dynamic. Hardly a description of the current print media which continues to stick its head in the quicksand when the 99% are living in a seriously unsatisfactory world where unrestrained capitalism has exploited and eclipsed social democracy.

      Scotland has embarked on the long revolution- a peaceful, egalitarian, self- educated and media literate civil movement. How should responsible journalism in this country respond? It should be a solid foundation of information. Trustworthy and ethical, reporting factual accounts of the big issues at home and internationally with reference to Scotland’s place in the world.

      Instead, media moguls wield disproportionate power with ignoble agendas in a toxic relationship with a political elite trying to control the parameters of mediated information. Freedom of thought, expression and information are the main casualties, but there are always unintended consequences –the demise of print media and the rise of social media.

    190. stonefree says:

      O/T North Ayrshire Labour leader Peter McNamara is and was a waste of space, I was introduced to his brother a few years ago and he had no time for him .
      McNamara blamed the SNP leader for not being available
      There used to be a local on line newspaper and forum run by Campbell Martin former MSP
      It was great nearly every week McNamara appeared amid a fuck-up he made
      Culliane looks favourite for the leader of the Labour lot, he is one of the brighter ones , well he writes the Montgomery’s pish and for a couple of others, and I think he wrote Johanna Baxter’s nonsense. She supplied her own tears

    191. CameronB Brodie says:

      Re. Plantation Quay. I’ve just remembered that I’d forgotten that I’d studied Plantation Quay, as part of an urban regeneration course I did at uni. We looked at the Plantation Quay development as it was felt to play an important role in stimulating the broader redevelopment of Glasgow’s waterfront, as a “flagship-development”.

      I still think “place market” is a begger-they-nature strategy that does little to address underlying social concerns. It may be the easiest strategy to follow in order to attract direct inward investment to an economy but I see it as an enabler of continued global neocolonial exploitation.

      Ironic that the BBC was chosen as a suitable user to break the location’s historic links with slavery. No?

    192. Andrew McLean says:

      Heady,
      You’re a professional, I remember you saying something some time ago, well I just remembered what Twitter reminds me of, there was an experiment in an American university, that involved the combination of electric shock and detachment due to peer pressure?
      Is Twitter not a electronic version, of William Goldings Lord of the flies, and is debate there in as doomed as the poor boys?

    193. heedtracker says:

      carjamtic says:
      19 August, 2016 at 11:44 pm
      Heedtracker @ 10:48

      Any Scot, vile separatist or otherwise would probably find even the suggestion that STV have fired a toryboy, at the behest of the SNP, very very funny indeed. If it was the SNP, STV would give him a pay rise and he’d also now be offered a tasty toryboy spokesberk slot for assorted toryboy MP’s, still clinging on in their Scotland region, like what that ridiculous Herald editor got lately. Massie is just one more toryboy making some extra cash, trolling Scotland. There is quite a lot of money being waved in front of red and blue toryboy gimps right enough.

    194. CameronB Brodie says:

      OT again, kinda. I can’t remember who was complimenting this but I think it is a fantastic example of semiotic disobedience aimed at creating a dissonance in public perception. An archive in the Scottish Library is a must, IMHO.

      Top class semiotic disobedience.

      Empire strikes back
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DiMXuEmqAHA

      P.S. Bottom-up emancipation is best.

    195. geeo says:

      Noticed this on RT, interesting !

      Journalist who voted twice to expose Brexit electoral fraud… is investigated for electoral fraud https://www.rt.com/uk/356517-journalist-eu-vote-fraud/

    196. Grouse Beater says:

      My look at our and their world of film:

      Bad film: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8Fx
      Good film: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8IZ

    197. Valerie says:

      Here’s an interesting round up of where the UK military are operating. Ask yourself how much of this approved or discussed? It’s your money.

      Not to mention the sale of arms to Saudi, that the UN has repeatedly ask UK to stop, because of the horrendous death tolls in Yemen.

      Anyone that thinks they know what and where UK troops are – news flash – no you don’t.

      Why, with the level of lies and mistruths we know for sure about e.g. Scotland, Ireland, anyone would believe the MSM on Syria and others, is beyond me.

      http://www.globalresearch.ca/britain-not-officially-at-war-but-fully-engaged-on-the-front-line-of-deadly-war-zones/5540641

    198. Sunniva says:

      Geeo @ 12.43… Interesting link… so an investigation into electoral fraud in 2014 discovered there was no central UK database which could determine whether a voter was registered to vote in two places… neither was the barcode on the back of the voting paper of any use in determining whether a voter had already voted…

      Charles Moore of the Telegraph showed that he could vote twice in the EU referendum!

      Before we have another independence referendum we MUST ensure that voters who turn up to vote are only registered to vote in Scotland. I have always suspected that the 2015 Scottish independence referendum result was skewed by many thousands of English voters with second homes in Scotland fraudulently voting.

    199. Dr Jim says:

      The Yoon “Journalist” outrage

      Ordinary folk can make mistakes or get things wrong on Twitter and Facebook and are afforded leeway by most because they’re not professional “Journalists” so they just have a row

      The so called professionals should be allowed no such leeway and be held to the highest standard when they use their professional platforms and status to air their own personal opinions, the common man has no platform and no status

      The perpetuation of a lie should be treated in the same way as the original inventor of that lie, however you look at it it’s an accomplice after the fact, you can’t say you didn’t do the robbery when all you did was drive the getaway car, it’s not a defence and the judge will send you down

      We’ve had enquiries, fines, rows, but still the media thinks it can get away with deliberate misreporting and outright lying yet they’re the ones feigning indignation when they’re caught at it time and time again and their attitude stinks to high heaven that somehow they should have the freedom to write and say whatever they like about whomever they like no matter how untrue it may be

      These people are no less than criminals and should be treated that way, either prove what you say before you say it or don’t dare say it or print it under threat of prosecution

    200. Sunniva says:

      … meant 2014! Typo, sorry!

    201. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Valerie,

      I don’t know where you’re going with all these screeds of O/T Syria propaganda, but it has obviously damn all to do with Scottish independence. It may, of course, convince any doubters coming on this site hoping to get some insight into the case for indy, that it has become instead a convenient haven for fringe leftie conspiracy theorists.

      Which is a big win for whom, exactly…?

    202. Fran says:

      Back from my holidays tonight to find that absolutely nothing has changed from the yoon perspective of life.

      Basically yoon journos and “celebs” still greetin that nasty independence supporters are still breathing.

      You lot no back in yer box yet? Tut tut.

    203. CameronB Brodie says:

      begger-thy-neighbour, sorry.

    204. @Robert J. Sutherland

      90 odd % of Scottish MP`s voted against the UK bombardment of Syria,

      we have just seen a picture of why they did not want to add to the mayhem in Syria until there was a clear `end strategy`,

      PM at the time told Parliament there was 70,000 moderates ready to fight which turned out to be total bullshit,

      emphasising that Scotland has no control over UK`s immoral war policy surely helps push principled Scottish citizens more toward an Independent Scotland.

    205. Alex Clark says:

      @heedtracker

      From your link on the Massie piece in the Spectator

      It is true that Daisley, like many of us, has on occasion tweeted some provocative and even asinine things.

      What does “like many of us” actually mean? I think I know.

      http://archive.is/uFTXZ

    206. Alex Clark says:

      Top marks Rev.

      This is the best article and comments that I’ve read on Wings for a good while. Never give up, the hysteria is hysterical LOL.

    207. Gavin Barrie says:

      Arbroath tried posting a link to Facebook earlier about my complaint to STV news about Daisley. I’m not sure why it didn’t work, will try again :+)

      I complained on the 13th July about misuse of their @STVNews Twitter account and about tone of voice of their journalist. The reply was a couple of days later.

      https://twitter.com/jammach/status/766588647319728132

    208. Alex Clark says:

      @Gavin Barrie

      So it was YOU all along and nothing to do with Pete Wishart or John Nicolson hahaha. Well done Gavin, your complaint was just.

      I respect that, mind watch your back now 🙂

    209. Swami Backverandah says:

      Am finding some very useful descriptors along the lines of Proven Liar Alistair Carmichael …

      From Peaty’s blog:
      “Having read this passage, only an idiot could conclude the Court was “likening SNP run Scotland to a totalitarian regime.” Only a determined charlatan could tell the public that Lord Hodge was “blasting the named persons scheme as ‘totalitarian.'”

      After Tomkins idiotic tweets about the SNP regarding the Daisley furore he’s now Determined Charlatan Adam Tomkins.

      And this from Oliver Camm, Leader writer & columnist for The Times retweeting the same lack of journalistic integrity.

      “This is exceptionally disturbing. Politicians are leaning on a broadcaster to silence a journalist.”

      Oliver Kamm added,
      Nick Cohen @NickCohen4
      SNP bullies cowardly and worthless Scottish media execs into silencing @JournoStephen http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14692107.Journalist__quot_gagged_quot__by_broadcaster_after_pressure_from_SNP/

      Exceptionally Disturbed Oliver Camm.

    210. Swami Backverandah says:

      Yikes. Apols.
      Didn’t realise that link would appear like that.

      What I find exceptionally disturbing is the number of people contracted to news outlets in print and other media who mindlessly retweet and rehash other contractors errors and obfuscations without checking their sources, and still have the temerity to consider themselves journalists.

    211. Effijy says:

      Brian Doonthetoon says:
      19 August, 2016 at 10:34 am
      ” LibDem MSP Mike Rumbles added: “That the SNP felt compelled to lean on STV to stop a journalist writing says more about them than it does Stephen Daisley.”

      “During the referendum we saw crowds protesting at BBC Scotland with the tacit backing of Alex Salmond and senior colleagues. This sorry episode suggests nothing has changed.””

      Yes, we saw the protests at Plantation Quay and yes, as far as the blatant bias goes, nothing has changed. Wonder when the next protest rally will take place?

      In my opinion, gathering 100,000 signatures from Scots who are disgusted by Blatant BBC Bias will do more than have the BBC
      count the first 90 door-step protesters.

      Please sing the link below

      https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/independent-enquiry-into-bbc-bias-regards-scottish-independence-referendum

    212. JLT says:

      This is nothing new. This hasn’t even being going on for the last few years, or even the last few decades. For the British State, this has been going on for the last 3 centuries! Any threat to the British Establishment is to not only be dealt with, but to be countered with extreme force and punishment. And for those who look to advance themselves, there are many who will happily help to protect the Establishment’s status quo.

      As an example of how the British State will crush any seditious element, you only need to go back to the time of the French Revolution. When the French Revolution took place, it was not only important for the ideas that it promoted, but also the political ideologies that arose from those ideas; individual freedom and equality that should be applied to every male, not only in France, but everywhere in the Western World (women at this point had no rights), and it was enshrined in none other than the historical ‘Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen’.

      Britain was hierarchical, patriarchal and dominated by a hereditary aristocracy. When the revolution took place, William Pitt the Younger along with Scotland’s key politician, Henry Dundas, countered the various groups that had arisen in the 1790’s such as Edinburgh’s ‘Friends of the people’ and in Ireland, the ‘Society of the United Irishmen’. These groups sought political change where they looked to substantial power held by the Establishment when it came to voting and for it to be on a more equal basis amongst merchants and the lesser gentry (the working poor would have no right in this since it came down to those who held land or ran a business. Owning substantial amounts of land at that time gave the landowner the right to vote (hence it was only the nobility who were allowed into Parliament).

      An early favourable response to the French Revolution encouraged many in Great Britain to reopen the issue of parliamentary reform, which had been dormant since Pitt’s reform bill was defeated in 1785. The reformers, however, were quickly labelled as radicals and as associates of the French revolutionaries. Subsequently, in 1794 Pitt’s administration placed these radical on trial. Parliament began to enact repressive legislation in order to silence the reformers. Individuals who published seditious material were punished, and, in 1794, the writ of habeas corpus was suspended. Other repressive measures included the Seditious Meetings Act (which restricted the right of individuals to assemble publicly) and the Combination Acts (which restricted the formation of societies or organisations that favoured political reforms). Problems manning the Royal Navy also led to Pitt to introduce the Quota System in 1795 addition to the existing system of Impressment (press gangs where men were forced to join the army and navy. Conscription was also introduced).

      As the French Citizen’s army began defeating the continent’s ‘coalition armies’ led by the Establishment there, Pitt and the British Establishment panicked at the thought of a ‘French Revolution’ rising up in Britain. It is therefore of no surprise that they looked upon ‘Friends of the people’ and the ‘Society of the United Irishmen’ as enemies of the state and thus ("Tractor" - Ed)s to the British Empire. When France finally went to war with Britain, it was with ‘relief’, for it gave Pitt and Dundas the excuse they had been waiting for. The groups were not only savaged in the press by being denounced as French spies, sympathisers and ("Tractor" - Ed)s to the state, but the ringleaders were rounded up and sentenced to 14 years each in Botany Bay in Australia.

      During and after the war, the British State made great use of the press to portray Britain not only as the conqueror of Napoleon (which by the way …continues to this day!), but to blacken the names of those who had created the societies for only having the belief that there was a need to improve the rights of the common man and to change the voting system.

      And this is the thing. The British State used the press at the time, and as it still does today, to continually condemn the likes of Napoleon Bonaparte, even though Bonaparte for all his faults, had tried to implement universal suffrage for the common man. Men who tried to make Britain a more equal place by changing the voting system and thus diluting power from the Establishment downwards. These men were either openly condemned, or they were sentenced to exile or executed in the worst cases. And it was here that the press of that time were used to help to promote the Establishments cause. Anyone who tried to stand up against the Establishment had their reputations destroyed by being openly condemned in the press.

      So this is nothing new. What you are fighting here is a system that has not only been in use for 3 centuries, but the system is used by people who have been taught how to be grand masters in using press manipulation. Many of today’s journalists may know who owns the press and therefore their jobs, but they have no knowledge of the past, and probably even less when it comes to just how determined the Establishment will enforce its will …so it can protect its own personal interests as well as its power base.

    213. CameronB Brodie says:

      @Alex Massie
      One of Scotland’s main problems is we are regularly trolled by ignorant pricks, such as yourself, pontificating in such a manner that obscures truth from the reader. Away and read some post-colonial literature yah fanny.

      #ignorantcybernat

    214. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 20 August, 2016 at 1:33 am:

      “I don’t know where you’re going with all these screeds of O/T Syria propaganda, but it has obviously damn all to do with Scottish independence.”

      That, Robert, is no more than your own personal opinion.

      ” … It may, of course, convince any doubters coming on this site hoping to get some insight into the case for indy, that it has become instead a convenient haven for fringe leftie conspiracy theorists.”

      More likely it will convince those doubters coming to this site hoping to get some insight into the case for indy being evidence of Scottish parochialism they were right.

      Which is a big win for whom, exactly…?

      For exactly those who do indeed choose to believe we are indeed too wee, too poor and too bloody stupid and your comment will certainly reinforce their beliefs.

    215. Les Wilson says:

      Well, the Olympics will be over soon, and congratulations to all competitors.
      This morning I turned on to EBCto check results, what I find is the OTT reaction that the EBC are so good at.

      Showing clips of events it was a sea of butchers aprons, painted faces and all kinds of various costumes. The commentators all Britain this Britain that, gushing the Britain is the greatest mantra. The occasional slip about it all actually being “English”. Any Saltires, and there was sure to be at least some, were edited out.

      There may have been a mention of other counties involved from the British Isles during events, I do not know, but I never heard the words Scottish, Scots in any main headlines in the tv media and the press, when pushing the Britain is great agenda.

      We are all British/ English apparently.That is the Yoons way. Andy Murray MAY have been the unavoidable one for them to mention.

      On top of hearing also this morning that there will now be a celebratory parade in Manchester, they have now added another in London. Oh, they are so, going to push this as a great propaganda excuse. Something the do at ANY opportunity.
      May said these will be suitable events, so watch out for as much flag waving as they can organise to promote hoe great GB is, apparently.

      The one in Manchester is being touted as for all the “nations” involved. I do not see many Scots traveling to Manchester for a parade. Both will be used to further “Britishness” to a sickening degree. They never miss a propaganda excuse.

      I wholly agree the athletes deserve recognition but this will be and OTT display for political reasons. Which speaking for myself, it will make me feel sick. So I will not bother watching it, I know how it will go, and I also now why.
      Castigate me if I am wrong.

    216. CameronB Brodie says:

      Ah, if only there was an edit function. I could have worked all the bits and bobs in to my previous comment. Nuts. 🙂

    217. Capella says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland
      I think Valerie made her point very well. Are you happy about your taxes paying for the destruction of Middle East countries in your name? Are you happy for the MSM to lie to you about it?

      I can think of better things to do with our money. If that puts me in the fringe leftie conspiracy theorist camp then I’m glad to be included. Is there a badge?

    218. Andrew McLean says:

      Robert Peffers

      The Syria link was Assad sponsored propaganda, two seconds looking at the link will tell you that. It is nut job stuff and has no place here in my opinion, it’s only purpose is to make us look like the sort of lunatics that say things like the Royal family are lizards.
      Keep the David Ike shite for conspiracy websites!

      You won’t like it if I said something completely stupid and wrong about Scottish sovereignty would you!

    219. Andrew McLean says:

      Not your link Valerie, by the way.

    220. Grouse Beater says:

      A squint at the Scottish film ‘industry’: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8Fx

    221. Luigi says:

      You do realise folks, with all this “bullying” and “one-party state” guff being propagated; that when the next consultative referendum is organised by the Scottish Government (the untrustworthy EC kept well out of it), leading to a YES victory; guess what the soor-faced yoons will cry:

      “It’s nae fair, the referendum was rigged!”.

      You read it here first. 🙂

    222. Croompenstein says:

      NUJ agree that it’s a load of pish..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/political-journalist-wasnt-gagged-says-nuj-chief.21415

      Daisley refused to comment

    223. K1 says:

      I really do enjoy John Nicolson…his even handed, sane and articulate critique of the ‘story that never was’ in the National is a breath of fresh air…

      More of this please 🙂

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/john-nicolson-a-political-editor-who-airs-their-personal-views-is-behaving-unprofessionally.21416

    224. Croompenstein says:

      On 20 August 1991, Estonia declared formal independence during the Soviet military coup attempt in Moscow, reconstituting the pre-1940 state. Every year, 20 August is celebrated as the day of Restoration of Independence

      I like Restoration of Independence

      http://estonianworld.com/life/estonia-celebrates-the-day-of-restoration-of-independence/

    225. Valerie says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      I really wonder what you are doing on an alternative media site that dissects media pieces, then shouts down presentation of pieces from other such sources.

      You don’t seem to see the contradictory position you hold. You want to believe the Western Press on wars, rather than look behind the curtain. Your decision, but stop name calling like a seasoned Yoon, for those of us not swallowing warmongers bullshit.

      Global Research is Canadian based, been going for almost 20 years, and hosts prominent academic, commentators, writers. Craig Murray has had pieces appear on his time as whistleblower.

      You are lining up right behind the Tory party, most Red Tories and the American war machine.

      Good for you. You can pay for bombing and killing, I choose to tell folk I don’t want to, and its a key reason I support independence.

    226. Alex Clark says:

      No one can be surprised surely at the tosh written in the Dead Tree Press? That Tom Gordon was even reduced to begging JK Rowling for an intervention, so desperate it would seem to allow him to escalate this non story and further inflame things.

      Just laugh at their pathetic attempts at manipulation. After all who is left to be manipulated by Herald headlines? No one that reads Wings, that’s for sure.

      Scotlands shame is not just the cringe. It is her “journalists”.

    227. Muscleguy says:

      @Vestas

      It may come as news to you but RISE are just as much committed to Independence as the SNP and have every right to stand for election. As for noting what happened in the election, they did not get anyone elected. Oooh! very scary.

      Note the Greens who did get more people elected are a different party and also Yes.

      Oh dear, another party in favour of Yes, when will this horror end?

      Do you have any idea how foolish and deluded you seem?

      The marriage that led to the formation of RISE was brokered by RIC, the organisation that the SNP are desperate to airbrush out of the history of the IndyRef. I’m in RIC, I found Yes Scotland far too stuffy and controlling.

      I know it is fashionable in SNP circles to pretend that the SNP are the only Indy fruit but that is just political posturing. It is a mistake that adjusted, sophisticated adults should not make to mistake that posturing for the truth.

      RIC canvassed every deprived scheme Yes Scotland were too scared to go near. I helped here in Dundee and did I find lots of durggies and no hopers and to in fear of my life? no, I found decent people doing the best they could under difficult circumstances and hoping for Independence to better their lot.

    228. Macart says:

      @Luigi

      Ayup, they’re lining up their excuses whilst propagating a phony war at the same time.

      The whole guff over journos and presenters pushing the stroomphmageddon button is nothing more than a commentariat being held to account by the public and not liking a dose of their own medicine.

      These people have been telling the general public what to think for decades. They’ve enjoyed the platform and protection of the mainstream media from which to influence others and haven’t been shy about their opinions. The public who disagreed with them, or who were the target of their opinion never had any option open to them for redress or rebuttal … until now.

      These journos have manipulated opinion, they’ve demonised and othered without check or counter and never gave a shit for the consequences on society of their work, the pain they may have caused others. Now that the public have a platform to make their own opinions known, its not such a one sided affair. The commentariat are at this point circling the wagons and its all so beastly unfair on the ‘noble’ profession. Free speech n’ all that. Free so long as they were the only ones with the freedom to say what they liked.

      Maybe if they’re looking for someone to blame for all the rage out there, they might try checking out a mirror sometime. You can’t demonise and troll large sections of your society with your political ideology/bought and paid for opinion and not expect an equal and opposing response from the target of your trolling.

      Free speech is a two way street.

    229. Alex Clark says:

      @Croompenstein

      I like Restoration of Independence too, though I like Scotlands Liberation even more as said by the old coal mining communist to Charlie Hebdo.

    230. liz says:

      The Yoon press are going mental over on twitter.

      https://twitter.com/MrJohnNicolson/status/766762692384321536

      This is a run-up to the council elections.
      They cannot have SNP councillors getting access to the books of eg Glasgow.

      We are going to have a massive fight on our hands against misinfo from the MSM, which is where the Rev comes in obviously.

      It’s getting to the folk who slavishly believe the BBC etc that will be the problem

    231. mike in fife says:

      Missiles! We don’t need no stinking missiles!

      http://archive.is/5ukPd

    232. Alex Clark says:

      @Macart

      I’m so glad you are “one of us”, the vilest of Cybernats 🙂

    233. Croompenstein says:

      Hey Rev better get your health insurance sorted oot…

      According to NHS Bath and North East Somerset CCG, the deal is intended to strengthen health and care co-ordination in the region after several complaints from people who claim to “have difficulty finding their way” around the system

      http://tinyurl.com/j6ek5bw

    234. Dorothy Devine says:

      Croompenstein, the most extraordinary information to me was that the pillock who protested that the eagle was a Nazi symbol and Scotland shouldn’t use it as Scottish symbol is the spokesperson for Conservative culture.

      Liked the cut of the jib of the NUJ chief, sounds like no nonsense fella.

    235. Tinto Chiel says:

      Thanks for the link to asinine Massie, Alex Clark. Of course, he blows it with his first sentence, “Scotland is a small place”.

      Behold the words of the poet:

      “Scotland small? Our multiform, our infinite Scotland small?”

      http://www.scottishpoetrylibrary.org.uk/poetry/poems/scotland-small

      JLT @7.51:excellent summary of the French Revolution and Establishment reaction. I have always thought this explains to some extent the xenophobia and insularity in English society which the tabloids fan whenever required, hence the Brexit fiasco. The continent was seen as a place of dangerous ideas which threatened to topple their deeply reactionary Ruritanian Carve-Up.

      Henry Dundas was a corrupt Establishment stooge. No wonder they gave him a giant statue in Embra.

    236. Dougmack says:

      Doesn’t all this make the case for bringing back dueling? If people were allowed to call a duel, then I suspect that there would be a lot less faux feelings being hurt. At the least, it would certainly spice up parliament and the media.

    237. Macart says:

      @Alex

      😀 LOL That’s me all over.

    238. Clootie says:

      Tommy Sheppard’s piece in the National today has guaranteed him my vote in the deputy leadership contest. This is a man with a plan regarding the winning of the next Referendum.

      Scotland FIRST Party SECOND. Far too many have forgotten the true objective!!!

    239. CamewronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      I think you know that I’m of the opinion that the entire Syrian crisis has been engineered from outwith Syria but we have to be careful, even with globalresearch. I’ve not clicked as I think I’ve already picked up on what is happening “over there”, so can’t comment further.

    240. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Gavin Barrie 5.27 Weil done Gavin ( tammy doffs ) nice to see STV are at least listening to complaints but I fear SD will pop up again & again.

    241. mike cassidy says:

      Just another day in the cuddly EU

      http://archive.is/5ukPd

    242. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      I think you know where I am coming from but we have to be careful, even with globalreasearch.

    243. Bill McLean says:

      The Brutish Empire is now in it’s “Byzantium” phase of decline and chaos! Rampant corruption at the top, obsession with the “games” and other trivia, bullying of so-called inferiors, political discourse relegated to comment in the self-interest, white knighting, always having someone/something else to blame and split into two camps – ironically in Byzantium the two camps were known as the Blues and the Greens. History repeating itself as it always does. Problem with Britnats is the have been propagandized from starting school and it is difficult to remake your mind. I believed it all myself until about 30 years ago!

    244. donnywho says:

      O/T ish… I am one of those who post in the Scotsman from time to time. I know i shouldn’t but it is hard to not want to refute lies and spin. Click-bait works.

      The article about Nicola speaking up for EU nationals was full of Fools like me trying to refute and dismiss Unionist trolls. Not a majority, for this is the “lions den” but a substantial group of us.

      My posts and all the others have vanished, not blocked, not deleted just vanished.

      Having held my nose to go onto such a cesspit of a forum and try and make reasonable points, whilst the press makes Faux outrage at the curtailing of the freedom of by the SNP.

      It beggars belief, the Unionists don’t do Irony they blindly create it… Angry as hell i am!

    245. McDuff says:

      The MSM are just going to keep on doing this with the confidence that there is no one to stop them.

    246. Alex Clark says:

      @Croompenstein

      Oh FFS! How pathetic is that. Look at me! Yes me me me!

    247. donnywho says:

      Bill… those who the Gods would destroy, they first make mad.

      Westminster is so institutionally corrupt they cannot see it at all.

      It is illegal to sell lordships and Lloyd George got into a little bit of trouble for doing just that. But it goes without saying now, that if you donate £500,000 to the party of your choice you become elevated. No promise just a tacit understanding. Institutionalized corruption.

      If you become a minister in the department of defense you will on retirement be offered a Non Executive seat on the board of BAE or some other defense contractor.

      Now i put it to you that if the board meeting was held in St Pancreas Station toilet and instead of a cheque you were given cash in a brown paper envelope it would be clear to one and all what was going on.

      But we are so used to it, it is so endemic that we cannot see what is going on. Nor do they wish to.

    248. schrodingers cat says:

      Muscleguy says:

      Do you have any idea how foolish and deluded you seem?

      The marriage that led to the formation of RISE was brokered by RIC, the organisation that the SNP are desperate to airbrush out of the history of the IndyRef.

      Really? I’m snp, i delivered loads of RIC leaflets during indyref1, I thought it was the voters who airbrushed rise out of history during holyrood election. The swine..

      I’m in RIC, I found Yes Scotland far too stuffy and controlling.

      Im yesnef, i didnt find yes scotland….anywhere in NEF, just me and other folk in YESNEF delivering leaflets, it would be foolish and deluded to suggest we are too stuffy and controlling.

      I know it is fashionable in SNP circles to pretend that the SNP are the only Indy fruit but that is just political posturing.

      “Um, we have greens and ssp in yesnef

      RIC canvassed every deprived scheme Yes Scotland were too scared to go near.

      “Um… scared! yup, those killing fields of hilltown were a no go area for striding across and superfluous rhetoric

      I helped here in Dundee and did I find lots of durggies and no hopers and to in fear of my life? no,

      “Never….In the field of human conflict….

      I found decent people doing the best they could under difficult circumstances and hoping for Independence to better their lot.

      “Um I canvased and delivered a lot of leaflets too, dont air brush me out of your history

    249. Alex Clark says:

      Said it already but I’ll say it again. Many, many brilliant comments on this thread. Well done you Wingers 🙂

    250. louis.b.argyll says:

      Robert Sutherland. Re Valerie ..re Syria.

      Hang on there Robert, Valerie has every right to bring GLOBAL WAR onto these threads..
      One big stitch-up after another has PROVED the ENTIRE GLOBAL SYSTEM(THE WEST) has failed us.
      The UK SITS HIGH ON THE PYRAMID OF OPPRESSION

    251. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      Ah yae just cannae beat the sound o’ the flute and drum of a Saturday morning as the Bigot’s Parade marches through the centre of Glasgow for about the tenth time this year. Bunch of effing knuckle-grazing eejits. Here in the 21st century these bampots apparently still want to be up to their knees in fenian blood. What do we have to do to bring these bigoted buffoons to their senses?

      Unionism/Loyalism is a poison. Independence is the antidote.

    252. Valerie says:

      @CameronB

      No argument from me on sourcing.

      If anyone wants to make the time to read, imo, a good article at 12.49am, it is written in the style of this site, with blue hyperlinks to Times, Guardian, Telegraph.

      The writer can be checked out by Googling him.

      I tend to visit sites I became aware of on here, via Nanas links, and follow a few of those. I’m not as vigilant as Nana.

      How can anyone say this issue is not related to Independence? I stick on topic 99% of the time.

      If I don’t agree, I might question without deriding, or more often scroll past.

      Seems that’s too hard for some.

      Why is it so hard to believe that sites like this exist to expose other issues. Issues such as war, environment, banking, big business, which has been going on for decades.

    253. Bill McLean says:

      Valerie also makes the point, supported by much international media, of just how dishonest the UK is.
      What happened to “play fair, chaps” and “play up but play the game” or were they always myths too! People of all nationalities and age have died during poar WW2 middle east conflict and the fact the Uk has been involved in most IS more than worthy of comment. Bill

    254. Bill McLean says:

      Sorry Rev and Valerie that should have read “during post WW2 middle east conflicts”

    255. Jack Murphy says:

      Croompenstein said 10:15 am:-
      “NUJ agree that it’s a load of pish..

      http://www.thenational.scot/news/political-journalist-wasnt-gagged-says-nuj-chief.21415

      Daisley refused to comment ”

      Thanks a lot for that link re STV and their Stephen Daisley.
      In my estimation STV has gone up a couple of notches. 🙂

      Worth a read folks—just a couple of minutes of your time.

      Now if that had been BBC Northern Branch… 🙁

    256. Ian Brotherhood says:

      The world is waiting for Jakey Rollin-aboot-the-place to pronounce on DaisleyGate.

      The tension is unbearable. Anyone know any good spells to make her hurry up?

      PS Grouse Beater tweeted a splendid photie of her hedge!

    257. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      O/T – the TIE Bloc Glasgow Pride Parade is live now at:-

      http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/TIEBlocGlasgowPrideParade

      Newsflash! There’s just been a counter demo by (allegedly) “christians”…

    258. Jack Murphy says:

      Re the STV/Stephen Daisley post at 12:06pm—–Brian Spanner also gets a mention!

    259. HandandShrimp says:

      The desperate flailing of the assorted Unionist press suggests that they feel their influence is waning. It also suggests that despite the wish projections that there will not be another referendum they know they are in a rear guard action to preserve their bitter together haven and that we are already in an indyref campaign.

    260. Alex Clark says:

      OK I’m blowing my own trumpet here but see if you have a little time to spare consider watching my opinion of the Top Ten Johnny Cash songs over in Off Topic.

      The’re no bad really. http://wingsoverscotland.com/off-topic/

    261. Macbeda says:

      @Ian Brotherhood 12:08

      That will be

      Bloggus Fastus

    262. Maria F says:

      Thank you Stu

      I think you are onto a winner finding the most efficient way of fighting off the unionist lies and their obliging press.

      I cannot think in anything more self destroying for any loosing-funds unionist paper/broadcaster than witnessing how no matter how outrageous, untrue, nasty and anger-provoking narrative it reports, the potential viewers to whom the narrative is directed cannot longer be bothered in visiting its sites and rather do all their reading and critique visiting sites of the opposition, such as this one.

      I haven’t trusted the ‘polls’ published by the unionist press for quite some time. I find it much more trustworthy, as a measure of the support of the independence movement, to see how long any of those biased outlets can survive on funding only from unionists without changing their narrative or increasing the volume of their lies.

      You only take the big guns out when the light ones don’t work anymore: so the more desperate the lies, the higher the support for independence.

      The resurrection of the idea of the ‘Scottish Six’ was a great cue for me that things aren’t that rosy for the BBC north of the Border: the BBC is taking a hit.

      The provoking ‘phantom’ narrative that Stu mentions above is as desperate a measure as the brick flying and all the other ‘harassment’ nonsense allegedly suffered by the plotters in the Labour party: another sign that things aren’t going that well in the unionist camp.

      Let’s not forget that with every article the press is continuously measuring their retained ability to manipulate us. This is why I think we should not respond to any of these provocations with anger and we should laugh them off coldly as loudly as we can: exactly as you are doing Stu.

      As per the characters portrayed by the attention seekers Torrance, Oliver etc, just look at their pictures. Some of them could fit perfectly well in an advert to promote one of Miss Marple’s episodes: they come across as rancid and over-staged.

      One has to wonder what sort of true Scottish professional will put themselves forward to spout the sort of crap these people have done without risking their profile/careers: only the ones professionally finished who don’t have much of a profile anymore and are desperate to rise it a bit.

      I don’t have time for those losers who I think are just being used as disposable cannon fodder to protect some unionist political figures when the inevitable independence arrives.

      The modus operandi of the phantom news looks pretty much like the one used by the labour plotters down south: Launch a deliberate nasty provocation on your opponents that is deliberately ignored by the press so you can then justify presenting yourself as a victim when they retaliate back.

      Is this an intelligent approach? For me this is the approach of undemocratic cowards that have long run out of intelligent and convincing arguments (assuming they had them in the first place).

      Let’s not give them the satisfaction of manipulating us. Let’s rip apart their lies and laugh loudly at their nonsense etc but let’s do it from pro-independence sites like this. Not visiting their unionist sites will starve them of oxygen, popularity and purpose.

    263. Capella says:

      Alternative media item on Johanna Cherry SNP MP drawing attention to UK surveillance powers have gone ‘further than any other Western democracy’

      No mention on the BBC due to black-out on SNP news. You can lie by omission too.
      http://on.rt.com/7n2m

    264. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      The SNP are NOT attempting to gag or bully anyone in the colonial press. All the SNP want is neutrality from such so-called journalists. These ‘journalists’ subvert the truth in order to keep the No voters on side. This is just a small sample of their disrtions and downright lies printed in their propaganda sheets:

      The Eck’s Files

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P4e3zLv1CU

    265. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie
      That was a shortened version of a post that didn’t appear, which indicated I had not clicked so could not comment further. I’ve seen enough images of death wrought on brown people by humanitarian interventionist to make a Pak’ma’ra puke. Doesn’t matter which source.

      We must remember that in time of war what is said on the enemy’s side of the front is always propaganda, and what is said on our side of the front is truth and righteousness, the cause of humanity and a crusade for peace. – Walter Lippmann

      http://www.globalissues.org/article/157/war-propaganda-and-the-media

      @David Torrence
      Beat the bananaman.

    266. heedtracker says:

      Another day of rancid The Graun UKOK propaganda and Brexit’s fine says Graun economics ed, what’s he left out, only near on half of the Scotland bit of England. They may take our EU our citizenship but we don’t exist anyway, look! even more gold medals for teamGEnglandB, rejoice.

      http://archive.is/RJosm

      See that English guy Andy Murray won again yesterday:D

    267. CameronB Brodie says:

      THAT

    268. ScottishPsyche says:

      Amazing how many journos take the utterances of their peers at face value. Of course there is also the class system at play here – Massie in particular uses the hierarchy of MSM to rubbish the National.

      It makes you wonder that if they can gang up on John Nicolson in his position, how terrifying it is when they go for ordinary people which we witnessed with the first cybernat pieces in the Daily Mail.

      In their dying throes they are being seen for what they are – a pack of hyenas ready to pounce on any victim they perceive as wounded.

    269. Proud Cybernat says:

      “Brexit Armageddon was a terrifying vision – but it simply hasn’t happened.” – Larry Elliot

      Hmm, I wonder why? Could it be that the BREXIT nuclear button hasn’t actually been pressed yet?

      Tit.

    270. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Some handy Latin to while away the anxious minutes…

      ‘Sepe me graviter indiget trim.’ (My hedge seriously needs a trim.)

      ‘Mea sunt sacra’ (My friends are sacred.)

      ‘O fucks propter hoc quod dicturus sum?’ (Oh for fucks sake, what am I going to say about this?)

    271. heedtracker says:

      Proud Cybernat says:
      20 August, 2016 at 12:50 pm
      “Brexit Armageddon was a terrifying vision – but it simply hasn’t happened.” – Larry Elliot

      Click bait. UKOK hacks have to eat and pay rent too.

      Looking at imperial master baiters like Roden of the Heil up there, well he’s in this too

      http://archive.is/dQIlZ

      It is great that teamGEnglandB are such an Olympic domination thingy now and we once again nearly rule the waves but its just that, Rio’s are horror of inequality, and all the UKOK golds have been paid for with lotto money, hundreds of millions pumped into teamGEnglandB, and most of it diddled out of the poorest in this farce union too.

    272. Macart says:

      @HandandShrimp

      “The desperate flailing of the assorted Unionist press suggests that they feel their influence is waning”

      Completely agree. And the more they flail, the faster the process accelerates. They’re sadly the architects of their own sorry condition. The Scottish media especially, refused to reflect the opinions of their own readership or population. They refused to change or adapt in the face of advances in communication technology and they refused to reflect or represent accurately, the opinion of a significant demographic of their own readerships/population.

      Now the latter is their democratic right. You don’t want to represent a particular opinion because yours is a polar opposite, then fine. How and ever, you’da thunk they might consider that it was a bad idea to misrepresent the opinions and nature of this demographic (for whatever reason) and that constantly denigrating them may have been a poor business plan in economically difficult times.

      Still, they can honestly say they stuck by their employers to the ‘bitter’ end.

    273. Alex Clark says:

      @Ian Brotherhood

      Your mental! That’s why I love Wings LOL.

    274. Grouse Beater says:

      A lesson in fascism: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-8IZ

    275. Valerie says:

      @CameronB

      No horrible images at 12.49, and most of us know to warn. It’s a review, with links to evidence gathered from MSM, of how many countries UK forces are operating in.

      How many people missed or are not aware of Angus Robertson at PMQs, using barely contained anger to call out Cameron on Yemen? Robertson raised it to expose the secrecy and lack of parliamentary approval. Does that make him a leftie Looney?

      I also reported here recently that Palestine are considering legal action against the UK govt for the Balfour Agreement. Not reported on the BBC.

      All of this is part of news in the modern age being shared now. It’s also as a result of Brexit. That is opening up a whole can of worms from history, now this tiny, war like island has very few friends. Suddenly, the Middle East might see a chink of light opening between the aggressors.

      Perhaps the days of, our oil under their sand, is on the wane.

    276. heedtracker says:

      Old JK has made her important intervention tweet. Is she still a Spanner follower though and why is she sitting on the UKOK fence, up there on high, when her people really weally need her?

      J.K. Rowling Retweeted
      David Clegg ?@davieclegg 17h17 hours ago
      John Nicolson has form in complaining to people’s bosses by the way.

      It is one of the Cleggsters better SNP bad monsterings, to be fair to her royal majesty of Britishness in her Scotland region.

    277. Alex Clark says:

      I’ve just been having a bit of a laugh this morning about this Daisley “story” and all the supposed hoo ha that it has conjured.

      Looking at this seriously though if you can, doesn’t it seem ridiculous? The guy won’t even comment, I guess he’s ashamed, probably still lying in bed with his head under the covers LOL.

      Next!

    278. louis.b.argyll says:

      Arts funding in the UK has been slashed /diverted to pay for Olympic ‘success’.
      The Arts, has an inbuilt legacy, by definition, it educates, entertains and boosts imaginative solutions within society. What is the legacy of scaling the Olympics medal table?

      The future needs IDEAS not replays of former achievements.

    279. Alex Clark says:

      @Valerie

      While I do respect your opinion and your comments I think that CameronB has also earned the right to say his piece.

      You’ll have to ask him yourself why I think he knows more than most on here about war and it’s consequences.

    280. louis.b.argyll says:

      If the US / UK end up top two in the Olympics medals etc..
      It will directly correlate with obesity levels in those two countries.

      Once everyone in China gets a fridge, they too will get fat, and retain their second only to the US in the obesity table.

    281. louis.b.argyll says:

      My daughter has now seen, by her own Web surfing, that Joanne (k) Rowling is ‘actually not very nice’

      I’m considering sueing her (JKR, not my daughter) for being a deliberately two faced influence on impressionable minds, depriving many of their childhoods by using her personality and being too bitchy for the younger age group she sells to.

    282. Hamish100 says:

      I wonder next time Daisley, Tom Gordon, Clegg and their like are back on tele or radio. (Clegg is never off) Ask Shereen with her pretentious middle classes talking about poverty.

      Sorry back to Gordon & Co. When next they are on the radio let them explain their behaviours. Not ours, theirs. A bit of discomfort is surely reasonable for the inventors of stories.

    283. Lochside says:

      Let’s all hope that Neil Oliver goes bald.

    284. Grouse Beater says:

      In reply to a Rowling tweet about trolls, I’ve just sent my own version to her … and she’s quoted in it – gulp!

      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-3Tl

      I expect to find a red crucifixion painted on my gate in the morning.

    285. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Lochside –

      ‘Let’s all hope that Neil Oliver goes bald.’

      There’s bound to be a good spell for that…

      ‘Non erit tibi interesting et ventosa ya fud.’

      (‘Ye’ll no be windswept and interesting after this, ya fud.’)

    286. Capella says:

      O/T BBC Alba are showing “Crowdie and Cream”. How did that slip past the censors? It’s about Scotland. It’s in Gaelic but there’s bound to be subtitles.
      http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00fw608

      As the first episode unfolds, Finlay hears the history of the family, evicted during the Clearances.

    287. Grouse Beater says:

      Neil Oliver: Bone picker and hair flicker.

      That should fit easily on his business card.

    288. TYRAN says:

      I’m more interested where Nicholson and Wishart get the idea that STV is a leading broadcaster. It’s not the 1990’s.

      STV merely rebroadcast the ITV clean feed for the majority of the time (ie: it runs itself) and put out local news as it’s part of their license obligation.

      ITV has decided to “shutdown” its channel for an hour next Saturday from 9:30am. Lo and behold, STV is doing exactly the same thing. Fancy that.

      Might as well sell to ITV. It is all but ITV in name. STV has little local brand value. Scottish TV has gone. Grampian TV has gone.

      The production arm is a subsidiary and just happens to share the STV name. It largely makes shows for others like BBC and Five. That can easily by hived off.

    289. gus1940 says:

      Hi Stu,

      There’s a guy on today’s Scotsman Comments making some seriously libellous comments about your good self.

      Perhaps you could throw some of your toys out of your pram, issue a statement to the media (which of course they would ignore)and consult your legal advisers.

    290. Grouse Beater says:

      Tyran: Grampian TV has gone.

      Grampian was considered a joke station even in Grampian. It made its dullard directors very rich when sold to STV, after the ITV network claimed categorically there would be no amalgamations, diversity was paramount.

    291. Alex Clark says:

      Unionist leaning political journalists and their acolytes surely wouldn’t tell bare faced lies in print? Or would they?

      Arses still looking for a bench to sit on or lie under. Hope it rains.

    292. Alex Clark says:

      @gus1940

      An archive link would be good Gus, I’d like to read that.

    293. Valerie says:

      @Alex Clark

      I’m aware of CameronB’s knowledge, which is why I said, no argument on sourcing, of course there are lots of crazy sources out there pushing their own agenda.

      However, American led aggression and UK colonialism are facts of history, so not sure how that has changed, except for those rewriting history, or those that believe imperialism is great.

      If anyone wants to actually read and dispute the facts brought together in the link I posted, that would be novel, instead of trying to tell me what I can post?

      I’m not in any way disrespectful of those who have served in the Armed Forces, but they don’t control or direct the propaganda.

    294. louis.b.argyll says:

      Grouse Beater..
      http://wp.me/p4fd9j-3Tl

      Brilliant.

      JKR, using her cultural success and twitter to become master of the universe. Evil lol.

    295. Alex Clark says:

      @Valerie

      Let’s not fall out. I believe we’re on the same side.

    296. clipper says:

      Proud Cybernat 11.56 am

      Imagine if everyone on the streets they passed through just stood pointing and laughing at them.

    297. Luigi says:

      Lochside says:

      20 August, 2016 at 2:11 pm

      Let’s all hope that Neil Oliver goes bald.

      You can just tell that the prize yoon chump spends several hours a day looking into his mirror. Not sure why though – poser he may be but he ain’t exactly a good looker.

      Aye, Neil, you are pretty – pretty ugly. 🙂

    298. heedtracker says:

      Grampian was considered a joke station even in Grampian.

      Grumpy tv gave the world Sellina Scott, hired by toryboy Ted Brocklebank, but she had a totally non on/off affair with the Donald Trump, in the 90’s. All that’s actually memorable about that was, less that the Donald crashed and burned with Sellina, and more that he would refuse to shake hands with anyone at all, in case he caught something nasty.

      The Donald was quite open about it at the time and it looked like developing Howard Hughes type mental illness. But he’s seems to have given up his no handshake policy now. Also, quite a lot of England’s hackdom head up to their Scotland region to get their careers going, before going back to where the UKOK things that really matter happen.

    299. louis.b.argyll says:

      STV isn’t on FreeSAT.

      So I haven’t seen any of ITV’s ‘Scottish’ content in years.

      Lucky me..

    300. Valerie says:

      @Alex Clark

      Absolutely.

    301. dakk says:

      Lochside says:
      20 August, 2016 at 2:11 pm
      Let’s all hope that Neil Oliver goes bald.

      I know for a fact that Neil Oliver is actually already baldy.

      That’s his Auntie Agnes’s wig he wears for shoots.

    302. Valerie says:

      Just on Daisleygate, the John Nicolson piece in the National is brilliant, clear and logical writing.

      Best of all, he condemns the Spanner account – very pleased to see that.

      Someone on Twitter, with a Saltire avatars addressed me directly to whine that despite being polite, John had blocked ‘her’, and stupidly asked me why? Like I control him, but obviously more to look aggrieved.

      Quick look back her timeline showed a Spanner tweet. So, I responded with – probably the same reason I’m blocking you, you retweet Spanner.

      Only way forward, leave them in their echo chamber, without oxygen.

    303. Fran says:

      Got a wee letter from our friendly tv licencing chappies, as its been 2 years since I cancelled.”Have your circumstances changed?” Erm nope!

      Wonder if they are starting to feel the pinch in their Scotlandshire region?

    304. Proud Cybernat says:

      Cruel Britannia:

      http://imgur.com/a/12hR1

      Take the UJ goggles off peeps.

    305. louis.b.argyll says:

      Proud Cybernat..
      Great British image..

      One of middle England’s lapdogs.

    306. Grouse Beater says:

      Fran: “Wonder if they are starting to feel the pinch in their Scotlandshire?”

      🙂

    307. heedtracker says:

      Nae bad UKOK slam via toryboy Kevrage, no graphs though but he likes it. Is this really why the dude was fired by STV, really, tweets what aren’t as nice and good and wholesome as England’s?

      Hope so. Oh to be a cringer.

      Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 5h5 hours ago
      Kevin Hague Retweeted (((StephenDaisley)))
      this, more so than everKevin Hague added,
      (((StephenDaisley))) @JournoStephen
      In England, people tweet journalists demanding they hold government to account.
      In Scotland, people tweet journalists demanding they don’t.

    308. Iain says:

      Fran says:
      20 August, 2016 at 4:12 pm
      Got a wee letter from our friendly tv licencing chappies, as its been 2 years since I cancelled.”Have your circumstances changed?” Erm nope!

      Wonder if they are starting to feel the pinch in their Scotlandshire region?

      I got the same letter this week. Only worrying thing is the addition of BBC iPlayer to need a licence. Doesn’t worry me because I don’t use it but my wife might be annoyed. Lack of licence fee must be hurting.

    309. Iain More says:

      OT

      I am getting bored with all this nice weather. I blame the SNP. The letter from the Council about next years Council elections dropped through the door today. I have concluded that it will do nothing to stop PV Fraud.

    310. heedtracker says:

      Sir Malcolm strikes back, with the sheer might of the BBC, STV, ITV, SKY and all the UK dead tree media behind Ruth Davidson, it is going to be interesting to see if they really can take down the SNP over the next 4 years. Can they all destroy JC and the SNP, in short?

      http://archive.is/PzuRd

    311. Tinto Chiel says:

      Rifkind?

      He’s used to selling himself cheap, of course.

      Shouldn’t he be in jail anyway?

    312. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Valerie @ 10:25:

      I really wonder what you are doing on an alternative media site that dissects media pieces, then shouts down presentation of pieces from other such sources.

      “Shouting down”? I’m just stating a case that I’ve as much right to express on here as you or anyone else. If I mention facts that you can’t answer, whose problem is that? I’ve been trying to haud my wheesht over this Syria extravaganza because I don’t believe that it advances the cause of Scottish independence one iota, in fact on the contrary, it gives rise to people questioning the credibility of at least some part of the yes movement.

      The people who need to be won over now for indy don’t give a toss about fringe lefty politics, as the results of the last Holyrood election made extremely clear. You might not like to hear that, but the numbers speak for themselves.

      I believe it’s now well understood that one of the failures of the yes movement at the last indyref (which we lost, remember) was too much righteous self-talking. “Preaching to the choir”, as someone described it. And it seems that rather than learn something from that, we are in danger of repeating the mistake with knobs on. There’s no advantage in appealing to a miniscule segment of the voting public who are probably long-settled in their beliefs anyway. We need to appeal to people who want a prosperous, secure future run by a government they can trust, not by a bunch of conspiracy nuts.

      But since I seem to have ruffled a few feathers, let me make this as short and clear as I can. I just want to be free of all the propaganda, not be sold a line by anyone. Not by the yoon media nor by anti-western fantasists.

      This after all is a site where facts are supposed to be sacred. I therefore find it hard to understand why people readily condemn every infringment on one side of what is a human relations disaster of epic proportions yet routinely ignore those elsewhere or claim they never happened. Whichever way round. The Russians bomb the sh*t out of ordinary people in Aleppo and someone quickly elides to the RAF somewhere else? As if the one justifies the other? Or as in your case, you claim it’s a setup? Gimme a break. It’s an f***ing war crime. The UN, who are not in the hands of anyone, have made this abundantly clear. If they weren’t rendered impotent by a Security Council that’s hamstrung by all the major powers, maybe they would be a darn sight more useful, but there we are.

      I just ask for a foreign policy that’s based on principle, not on partisanship. I don’t see that anyone would have any problem with this. (Except of course someone who is in it for some other purpose entirely.)

      As for your affection for that Canadian website you mentioned, it’s a notorious haven for cranks and nutcases. (That’s just an empirical fact.) But link to it all that you please, I’m not stopping you. It’s not doing your personal reputation for credibility much good, though. Just sayin’…

    313. heedtracker says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      20 August, 2016 at 5:18 pm
      Rifkind?

      He’s used to selling himself cheap, of course.

      UKOK toryboy’s don’t care how you make your pile. Just always kickback to the party. It wont actually be that long now, weeks, til we know if the BBC have actually successfully crucified JC. Then they can really get stuck in SNP bad. Its still weird watching red tory SLab go after Corbyn, like Dr NO! for example. They even blame poor old JC for Brexit. I mean, you know, sanity wise, Scottish Labour are heading for the laughing factory.

      Scott Arthur Retweeted
      neil watkins ?@welshope 7h
      neil watkins Retweeted Scott Arthur
      This is how we should challenge him all the time , And not leave it to Momentum/Militant Tendency to attack us !

    314. Capella says:

      @ Robert J Sutherland – two facts:

      1: Russia is in Syria legally, at the request of the legitimate government.
      2: UK and USA are there illegally, in defiance of the international community, the UN.

      There are many other facts which would probably bore you.

    315. Fran says:

      @ Iain

      I don’t use the iplayer either, there is nothing on the EBC that interests me at all.

    316. galamcennalath says:

      heedtracker says:

      (((StephenDaisley))) @JournoStephen
      In England, people tweet journalists demanding they hold government to account.
      In Scotland, people tweet journalists demanding they don’t.

      This sort of rubbish really annoys me. The complaints aren’t about journalists doing their jobs ie holding politicians to account among other things … the complaints are about taking strong partisan positions and pushing that agenda with fabricated stories, twisted facts, selective statistics, out of context quotes, and a huge amount of plagiarism among themselves!

      When did any journalist last attempt to hold the Scottish Government to account with a properly researched, evidence based, logically analysed, challenge of poor governance?

      I can think of none. The problem is you need actual journalists for the job and they are like hen’s teeth in Scotland.

    317. Artyhetty says:

      Re,Iain@5.04

      We ditched the ebc years ago, and iplayer about 3 years ago as it became so dull.

      Now we watch stuff on Netflix, Vlogs of all kinds on youtube, especially ones from Japan, film reviews and crazy inventors etc. Also watch some good stuff on Openculture, Archive,(can’t remember exact spelling) and loads of short films on NLS, image archive. Oh and look out for ‘shorts of the week’, some great stuff there too, also National geographic. Who needs the ebc, if you have the internet the amount of great films, animations, documentaries etc is infinite, just not enough hours in the day!

      Bye bye ebc, hope you are really scrabbling around for the zillions of £s now to make your propaganda!

    318. heedtracker says:

      galamcennalath says:
      20 August, 2016 at 5:47 pm
      heedtracker says:

      If he’s got the bullet or worse, demotion, its probably got nothing to do with Nicolson. The whole of toryboy hackdom exists only to protect our establishment elite and take out any dissenters and that’s it, the great teamGB fourth estate. Its all headed by the BB and if there was an actual middle of the road, progressive liberal media, its likely the UK would not look like what it does today.

      So if that STV dude has gone, he’s either jacked it in, or he’s not very good. It looks like a bit of both really. Nicolson says media editors don’t publicise their opinions on twitter especially, by convention. He includes one of the current owners of BBC Scotland’s Sarah Brown but she’s not backward in tweeting what she thinks at all.

      So it shouldn’t annoy, in short.

    319. Valerie says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      Who do you think you are? Why are you addressing me in that smug, condescending way, allegedly about MY reputation?

      Fuck Off. I’ve been holding my wheesht too.

      It’s clear from your post that concern to understand a global context to wars is the domain of the lunatic Left fringe.

      Can someone enlighten me as to who put this Britnat cheerleader in charge on here???? Laying out HIS world view of how the site operates, and who reads what???

      BTW, Captain Sutherland, none of your posts contained any facts, just a lot of masturbatory rhetoric, and name calling, which I did address.

    320. Tinto Chiel says:

      Heedtracker: yes.

      I know Ken Livingstone and Corbyn neither know nor care much about Scotland but I was visiting an RT-watching pal today and he was looking at “Going Underground”.

      KL was given an extensive interview but was not interrupted by the host and he really got tore into MI5 and The Blairites. Later Ricky Thomlinson was given the rest of the show to further his campaign re The Shrewsbury 24. He finished by advertising “The Enemy Within” by Seumas Milne, which gives an in-depth account of the MI5’s role in the Miners’ Strike. Reminds you how right-wing our media are because KL and RT would never be allowed to express these views, agree with them or not.

      RJS: There is a wide spectrum of Indy views expressed on here every day: right, left and in-between. Our host is pro-independence because he believes passionately in democracy and fairness. I suspect he cares little about the historical, cultural and linguistic aspects of independence which get so many of us going but he lets us chew the fat and that’s fine. Where would we be without this platform?

      On another point: as Capella says, the only external power legally permitted to take action in Syria is Russia, since their help has been sought by Assad, the head of the legitimate government. The UK and USA have been intervening and committing war crimes around the globe for so long that is it is just accepted as normal. And that’s before we consider the weapons of death the UK flogs around the world. It’s the pathetic Empire policy of Gunboat Diplomcy transposed to the 21st century. I don’t see what the Syria issue has to do with “fringy Left politics” at all. It is an unmitigated human disaster made much worse by foreign interference.

      I hope after independence that the only role Scotland plays in conflicts is to be a peace-maker like Norway.

    321. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Capella 17:35:

      Russia is in Syria legally

      Look, as I said before, I don’t want to prolong a discussion on something that will, far more importantly than I, bore the very people who really matter. (Not exactly unknown with fringe left politics.) But depends on what you mean by “legally”. We can argue the toss till the cows come home about the “legitimacy” of a government which so evidently fails to command the allegiance of a significant proportion of its own people, but its armed forces and the Russians who support them are still committing war crimes there. That’s also a fact. One which some people seem curiously unwilling to accept. Puzzling that. The legalistic status of these forces doesn’t excuse or justify that.

      Curiously enough, the presence of western forces elsewhere in Syria, although indeed uninvited and by any standard illegal, is tacitly supported by the regime because they are effectively supporting it in return. There’s realpolitik for you.

      It’s just ordinary folk caught in the middle who lose out every time.

      Funny old world, that.

    322. Alex Clark says:

      @heedtracker

      Just read your link to the Rifkind piece. They really are keeching their pants eh!

      Sir Malcolm said: “By very good fortune, the Tory party is being led by someone who Scots identify with as being a normal, home-grown member of the human race. She’s one of us.”

      I asked this earlier when Massie stated “one of us” in his Spectator piece. Who are “us” really?

      Let’s dump this crowd, there is another way. I don’t want to be one of “them”.

    323. The Buchan Loony says:

      Grouse Beater…Why do you think Grampian tv was a ‘joke station’?

    324. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      valerie,

      Where you can’t win by facts, you replace by puerile insults. In particular, I take the strongest possible exception to your characterisation of me as a BritNat. You have no reason whatever to do that. Simply because I don’t happen to share your extreme left-wing views? Oh really? I thought indy was an inclusive movement, but it seems now I have no choice but agree with you about everything? (“Some are more equal than others”, eh? Now where have we heard that before?)

      I call for an even-handed approach to a situation of extreme distress for millions of people, and somehow you can’t deal with such an appeal? Get over yourself.

      The indy movement isn’t the exclusive preserve of radical leftists, who may be endowed with an overabundance of self-entitlement, but are a miniscule minority and likely always will be. You don’t hold the exclusive rights to this website either.

      You can fart out all the idiot propaganda you like, just don’t expect it to go unchallenged. Insult me all you like, it simply helps prove my point further.

    325. heedtracker says:

      Tinto Chiel says:
      20 August, 2016 at 6:37 pm
      Heedtracker:

      Thomlinson calls for revolution, which is really what Scottish independence is. It’s all about the red tories now though. Logic and polls dictate that, despite our tory media, JC will win. So what next for likes of red tory Dr No! and Hothersal?. We probably all know Labour votes that are just not Labour at all. At best they’re torylite but they should certainly not be in an actual lefty Labour party. I know some faux Labour in BBC England, champagne socialism at its finest, absolutely determined to crucify JC.

      Logic dictates that Labour should all at least get behind JC now and see how it goes because they have no chance in the next GE at the hands of the BBC anyway. And its all over in their Scotland region now, especially with tory working class torygirl Ruth getting all the endless and extraordinary BBC Scotland boost. Its toryboy mad up here and you’re average Scots tory vote would be appalled to be even considered working class.

    326. Gary45% says:

      Aye, “the price of oil is back from the dead”, of course we’re told Scotland’s oil is SHI*E, so we better get the begging bowl out.
      Indy Ref 2, AYE,
      Can’t come quick enough.
      Red Tory + Blue Tory = Purple Tory.

    327. Alex Clark says:

      Rifkind says “a normal, home-grown member of the human race”

      Just what does that make the rest of us? Have a think about that.

    328. Tinto Chiel says:

      Heedtracker: “Logic dictates that Labour should….”

      Which probably means they are totally screwed. JC will probably win, despite attempted Blairite pochling, and then there will be further mayhem, although I heard Falconer, Blair’s flat mate, on radio recently saying the party must unite behind the leader. Sounded almost sincere.

      As you say, the tank-straddling nasty little nonentity will be boosted to the max in BBC North Britain since BLiS______d is dead in the water.

      Simple choice for Scotland: independence or The Union.

      As if we didn’t know.

    329. BJ says:

      Robert J Sutherland and Valerie @ 7:06

      Why are you boring everyone with your personal slagging match?

      Go private message each other until you get back on topic, very annoying

    330. Neil Oliver's deid dug says:

      It’s an disgrace ma owner’s hud tae get aff twitter an he wants yeez aw tae ken that Scotland’s coast is mince compared tae aw the ither coasts he’s been tae.

    331. Grouse Beater says:

      Sutherland: “It’s now well understood that one of the failures of the yes movement at the last indyref (which we lost, remember) was too much righteous self-talking.”

      Still surrounded by self-induced adversaries, I see. And still talking down to people: “which we lost, remember”.

      “It is now well understood” is in the same category as your “it’s generally agreed”, when it’s nothing of the sort, the ‘it’ being an erroneous opinion about alleged poor SNP communication over post-indie currency and economic stability.

      You’ve yet to answer my question why Putin agreed to annexe the Crimea. You’re adept at telling us what he did, and you don’t like him – a view hardly worth making public – but not why he did it.

      If you don’t know why he did it, you’re not in a position to weigh the balance of historical evidence and make a reasoned judgement. You stop short at prejudice.

      In other words, your pious exhortation to readers to see both sides of an argument applies one way for you, the neo-liberal western way. And I bet its culled from the right-wing press.

    332. Valerie says:

      @Robert J Sutherland

      You are hopelessly lacking in self awareness. I support everyone saying whatever they like, it’s you telling me how to behave I object to.

      Hence I asked who put you in charge.

      Folk can judge the exchange for themselves, and why I waited until now to tell you to Fuck Off.

      It’s you that seems unaware of freely available information about Assads regime. Elections were held in April this year, and his party plus alliances won 200 of 250 seats.

      Over 7,000 polling stations, thousands of candidates, displaced Syrians brought back to vote and polls extended by 5 hours to accommodate voting demand. They even have a system to ensure no one votes twice, unlike the UK.

      I suppose like your response to Capella about illegal bombing, maybe being open to debate, could apply here too, in your narrow world.

      Whether I agree with Assad and his regime is not the issue, the Syrian people have again voted for him.

      There have been tomes written about destabilising operations in the Middle East.

      You haven’t even commented on the article I posted pulling from UK papers, but better not read that article, it won’t fit your view.

    333. Valerie says:

      BJ

      I agree with you, but I am responding, not instigating.

      I’m happy to stop posting if this guy would stop addressing me.

    334. K1 says:

      ‘Where you can’t win by facts, you replace by puerile insults.’

      By the same token ‘when you can’t get someone to stop posting links to sites that you don’t like, best just to lord it over them making undignified insinuations about their political outlook because it differs from your own’.

      It isn’t up to you to decide on others’ reputations on here Robert, nor what they post, we can all make our own mind’s up on whether to click on a link and we can all just ignore posts we have no interest in.

      If the point you are making is that you can jump on a big high horse and ride roughshod over people because they post ‘links’ that you don’t like and hold views that you disagree with, by becoming a condescending prick, let me assure you you’ve really hammered home that point. 😉

    335. Capella says:

      @ Valerie – I agree with you on Syria and Assad and I find RJS comments patronising.

      It is a tragedy that we belong to a Union which blows up people in the interests of a corrupt oligarchy in Westminster. The blame lies with us for as long as we tolerate this state of affairs. Raytheon in Fife makes the bombs which Westminster sells to Saudi who drop them on Yemeni children.

      I can’t be bothered looking up the references at the moment. It’s Saturday night. Time for a tincture.
      Cheers!

    336. Capella at 5.28

      Exactly. I have been trying to tell even quite well informed people this for ages. And I have persistently pointed out that all reliable information points to the US funding ISIS-like movements in Syria since 2007 to achieve the US desire of the removal of Assad who blocks their access to Iran.

      Assad is the legitimate and democratically elected head of the Syrian state recognised as such by the UN. He runs a secular state which frowns on religious intolerance and extremism. It has been in that case easy to motivate a moslem resistance to him.

      When we destroyed Iraq Syria welcomed hundreds and thousands of Iraqi refugees very many of them from the Christian dominated area around Basra.
      Nobody is suggesting Assad is a great guy. He is a hard man. Only a hard man can rule the disputative states we invented in the Middle East – like Saddam Hussein and Gaddafi. We put them in power and supported them until they wouldn’t do what they were told.

      The fact is that the UK parliament voted to bomb Syria so present UK and media hypocrisy is unbearable. Presumably we have special bombs that don’t kill children and mothers. The only foreign power legitimately in Syria is Russia as invited by the Syrian Government.

      Aleppo was seized by militant Islamic extremists, oddly enough driving American tanks and cars, supplied apparently by Saudi Arabian money. If you were to believe our press the Syrian army which has surrounded and blockaded Aleppo is not supposed to do anything about this. What utter bollocks.

      No doubt they should be enticing the rebels out with teacakes and cups of tea.

      We have been fed a crock of bull shit on the Middle East and particularly Syria for decades

    337. Simon Curran says:

      What worries me about this story is the disproportionate amount of influence these journalists have. Last time it was pretty much the whole of mainstream media against a Yes vote and apart from The National I’m not sure that much else has changed. My fear is that when the next referendum comes around it will be the same again. Yes there are some fantastic sources of information outside the BBC and the papers but how much of that affects the person who voted No last time around, are we just having a chat in an echo chamber? We’re nearly two years on and nothing seems to have changed, the BBC and the papers continue to go unchallenged and spin and distort as much as they like. My fear is that this will continue and those who aren’t really ‘political animals’ will fall for the same rubbish again. Can anyone alleviate my fears?

    338. Valerie says:

      @K1 and Capella thank you.

      @Dave McEwan Hill

      You have put it very eloquently and intelligently.

      I won’t say anymore on the subject. It’s been said.

      I hope RJS can refrain from addressing me, and it leaves the thread for others.

    339. Croompenstein says:

      Iain Martin has crossed the Yoon Rubicon with all this pish but claiming our words…. he is cringetastic…

      https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/766974329968070657

      http://caledonianmercury.com/2010/08/26/useful-scots-word-clype/0010208

      He is also greetin about unpleasantness.. Holy Fuckometer..

      https://twitter.com/iainmartin1/status/767022308426936324

    340. Cherry says:

      @ Dave McEwan Hill

      Would that be Tunnocks teacakes? 😉

      Valerie been reading lots on Syria…we just don’t know the half of it… as soon as we “side” with the alleged bad guy we are then called conspiracy theorists. It’s a derogatory term from someone who looks no further than the end of their nose.

      What I have learned is this…Russia is legally in Syria. U.S. is telling Syria to stop its planes from flying over it’s own land. So I ask myself who is the aggressor and who is in the right. The U.S. seem to be “protecting”an area which has oil under the sand! Conspiracy theory or truth … I know which I agree with.

    341. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Dave McEwan Hill.

      A great comment which reinforces how awful our media are when dealing with the Middle East. Syria was a beautiful country which has been reduced, like Libya, to ashes and anarchy by the western powers and their proxies.

      Why is France a target for terrorists? Because of Hollande’s waltz through Tripoli with Cameron. But it’s the people of Nice who bear the consequences.

      My French sister-in-law’s father was conscripted into the army in Syria in the 30s and thought the country and its people enchanting and its culture fascinating. Mind you, he was a communist and ended up a maquisard in WW2 so he was hardly your typical poilu.

      Point is a rich and complex culture has been destroyed by western interference yet again but the misdirection is directed towards Putin.

      No wonder we find it hard combatting the corrupt Establishment media en Ecosse.

      The stakes are very high.

    342. Fireproofjim says:

      Capella, Valerie, robert thomson,et al.
      Please go somewhere else to argue about things which have nothing to do with Wings or our independence efforts.
      You can only annoy and scare off potential Yes voters, and worse than that you are self indulgent and boring, and taking up more than your fair share of the thread.

    343. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      As I type this, there have been 344 comments on this page.

      Due to the limitations of the web, some virtual conversations have turned a tad personal. So…

      I’ve posted this link before but you should watch and think. THAT (in the video) is what we’re up against, in the next year or so.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs

    344. Tinto Chiel at 8.59

      And well educated Syria had its share of lovely people. I knew many of then when I was in Africa, doctors, lawyers and teachers mainly, from a civilisation much older than ours.

      I am not particularly religious but there has to be a hell for the bastards that have blown much of the Middle east back into a blood soaked middle ages

    345. In fact I have been trying to write a poem. I have just given myself its title. “There has to be a hell”

    346. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      BTW: right at the start of that video, does Bernard not come across as a Kezia tribute act?

    347. Alex Clark says:

      You’ll have to forgive me for posting this crap and I would not normally bring to your attention someones tweets. This though is hilarious and I couldn’t help myself.

      Quite pleased really that Historywomen is no longer anywhere near teaching our children.

      Historywoman

      ?@Historywoman Retweeted (((StephenDaisley)))
      This is a particularly important, relevant and accurate tweet.Historywoman added,

      (((StephenDaisley))) @JournoStephen
      In England, people tweet journalists demanding they hold government to account.
      In Scotland, people tweet journalists demanding they don’t.

      Hmmm I wonder just how important and relevant this tweet will prove to be when we check back in the future.

    348. stephen says:

      @ Simon Curran
      Sorry to say I cannot alleviate your fears.If and when there is another referendum,it will be the same from the BBC and the MSM,multiplied many times over.As we all know only the Sunday Herald supported independence,how many people buy that newspaper?How do we combat this obvious bias?The answer is we can’t.The undecided in the last referendum voted No,will they vote Yes this time?I have no clue,and neither does the echo chamber of social media.

    349. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie & Alex
      Ho, keep me out of this please. I wasn’t making any value calls, simply urging caution. I wasn’t trying to prove you wrong Valerie.

    350. Croompenstein says:

      I Wonder what Daisley would make of this…

      https://twitter.com/BaselAbuwarda/status/766911910352556034

    351. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave McEwan Hill.

      Did you leave anything with me for safe keeping, in George Square on 30th July?

    352. Sinky says:

      gus1940 saysat 3:00 pm
      Hi Stu,

      There’s a guy on today’s Scotsman Comments making some seriously libellous comments about your good self.

      You should contact Rev Stu by clicking on CONTACT at top strapline as he has already won damages from The Scotsman.

    353. Tinto Chiel says:

      BDTT: I know the beast we are all up against:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kTvKaLW5bu8

      Well, it’s Saturday night and we should all be mellow.

      Love, Wingers.

      😛

    354. Lenny Hartley says:

      In another life I had a very large global map in my office, it gives me no pleasure to say that in 2002 I pointed to Syria on the map and said to my colleagues Syria is next. It was obvious then as it is now that the USA covets Iran’s oil. The only way they can control the Iranian oilfields is with boots on the ground. Through Syria and Iraq is the only feasible way for them to do this.

      They are in it for the long game, their reliance on oil is a salute.

    355. Ian Brotherhood says:

      Does anyone really know what’s happening in Syria, Yemen, Ukraine, or any of the dozens of global hotspots which command the attention of propagandists and intelligence services?

      Point is, very few of us do, even when we like to imagine ourselves to be reasonably well-informed. All we can know for sure is that we know next to nothing apart from our shared aim – securing freedom from from a cabal of privileged pampered bullies.

      An obvious corollary – how many people across this planet know what’s happening right here in Scotland? Whatever information they’re getting does not, in the main, come from social media or sites like this – they get a ‘truth’ which has largely been instigated, processed and approved-for-release by the same bullies we’re fighting.

      Once again we return to the vital role of the ‘British’ media in re-presenting ‘our’ reality, and the specific responsibility of the BBC which we are forced to finance.

      The current stushie about Torrance/Oliver/Daisley is a microcosm of the problem we face – Establishment gobshites continue to dictate MSM discourse and they’ll never ever abandon what they perceive to be a ‘duty’, no matter what depths it forces them to trawl. The Realm must be defended, and any threat must be completely destroyed by whatever means necessary.

      No self-respecting jury would still be deliberating over the Nicolson/STV rammy – there is simply nothing to ‘see’. But what are the odds that tomorrow, across the print media, radio and telly, we’ll see further ‘in-depth’ analysis and blithe chit-chat about something which has no more substance than the air emerging from the fat end of Bliar McBloater’s tuba?

    356. Brian Doonthetoon at 9.26

      You know I did leave something at George Square and said to my friends “I haven’t picked something up but I can’t remember what it was”. It’s an age thing ..and I can’t remember if it was anything to do with the stall you were at so worry ye not

    357. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave McEwan Hill.

      It was either something you felt would be a tad awkward to carry around in the square (might get damaged) or it was a couple of things that would, probably, have fitted in a slightly bigger than average pocket.

      Think man! I’ve got a wee argument going with Ronnie Anderson as to what is was you left in my or Irene’s care.

    358. CameronB Brodie says:

      Valerie & Alex
      Ah, glad I didn’t cause you to fall out.

    359. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Tinto Chiel.

      I saw the original Peter Green Fleetwood Mac on their farewell tour, in the Caird Hall Dundee – 1969 I believe. Their encore was a cracker. It started off slowly, with the chords from ‘Guantanamera’, then, over a a couple of minutes, they built up the sound and tempo and turned it into ‘Twist and Shout’.

      A memorable night…

    360. Grouse Beater says:

      Valerie, Capella, McEwan Hill, Tinto Chiel: “We have been fed a crock of bull shit on the Middle East and particularly Syria for decades.”

      I agree in toto.

      That’s what happens when you hit vulnerable systems with a sledgehammer, when you don’t give a damn for anybody who ‘wears a tea towel’ on the head.

      Not knowing what you’re doing and not looking at the roots of where these movements are developing from is courting disaster. And we’ve seen the consequences, all over the Middle East, and into North Africa too.

      You have to understand what the roots are, quite genuine grievances, and address them, not advocate obliteration by carpet bombing as Bush did, and in fact, Reagan before him.
      Incidentally, this isn’t the first time Syria has been flattened. Same happened at the end of the First World War, thousands starving.

      Anyhow, didn’t mean to butt in; you’re all well qualified on the subject. Just curious at Sutherland’s appearance to shout he’s a keen capitalist, the only way forward. The theme is a familiar diatribe on this site, same sentiment, same opinion, same intolerance of any other view, but each time with a different moniker attached to it.

    361. Give me a hint, man. I remember thinking that’s awkward and I’ll leave it and get it later but I now have no idea. I am 147 years old for goodness sake!

    362. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Dave McEwan Hill.

      Could it have been something that could be carried rolled up?

    363. HandandShrimp says:

      Re the tweeting journalists thing, is Daisley saying that journalism is so dead in England that the populace are forced to take to Twitter to entreat with them to do their job?

      Doesn’t sound desperately good to me.

    364. heedtracker says:

      Croompenstein says:
      20 August, 2016 at 8:53 pm
      Iain Martin

      Thanks for the link to that tory roaster and he certainly does lay out what’s happened to the dead tree press but hasnt the guts to say out loud why, shock.

      In a small country such as shitty little too poor, stupid Scotland, its really awful this Scottish democracy thing but we cant make them stop,

      “That is particularly worrying when the traditional Scottish press has been devastated by the digital revolution to an extent unmatched in the rest of the UK. Editions of London-based titles are doing well but indigenous circulations have (in most cases) collapsed and the revenue model that paid for journalism has been destoyed. It was based on coverprice plus a monopoloy on local display, plus access to the London display market for cars, banks etc that depended on healthy circulation.

      At its peak almost twenty years ago Scotland on Sunday sold 125,000 copies, when Andrew Neil was publisher and John McGurk was editor. I was the Political Editor, although my tales of Scottish Labour infighting and the likelihood of devolution letting in the Nats had little to do with sales success. It was driven by new magazines and colourful sections, clever reader offers, cookery columnists, sport, serialisations and scoops.? It was terrific fun and via lunching on expenses I got a terrific wine education.

      Anyway, all that is gone. I don’t even want to look at Scotland on Sunday’s circulation now. It is too upsetting to see what the internet has wrought on newspapers in a country that needs a strong press and robust journalism.”

      Martin is a kind of mini Ligger henchman but I always thought the Ligger was one of the biggest toryboy nails in the Hootsman’s coffin.

      Let rancid The Graun explain, as the Ligger and probably Martin got to work, ruining hootmans sales figures,

      http://archive.is/IUaBD

      “By the end of his first year, profitability at the papers was improving and Neil had proved his point – he had made the company commercially robust. The effect of the short term gain, however, was to destabilise the titles to the point where the sales had slumped to 72,000 and he was forced to cut the cover price to get the title back on its feet. That, as Neil himself points out, has cost the company up to £5m.”

      Still at least some piss artists got free wine.

    365. louis.b.argyll says:

      Fireproof Jim..

      I would argue that all politics is linked.
      We discuss untruths from all regions and spheres.

      Syria is the latest scare tactic.

      The problem is that the old muscle-flexing has turned into hatred and paranoia, clearly visible in the acts attributed to the Western and Russian states as well as the dictators and tyrants.

      Advanced weaponry turns these ‘struggles’ into genocide.

      THERE’S NO MORE ‘TIT FOR TAT’
      Now it’s just SPLAT ‘

      Why do we allow the earth to be brutalised..Oh yes..greed.

      We have TRIDENT. A big fat fuck-you to the 5 million people each warhead kills.. AND to the 5 million citizens who built it.

      The fact that Trident is the fruit of our citizens endeavours, is frightening. The fact that a parliament creates a false mandate to justify the infinite projection that there will always be war..is laughable, if it wasn’t so serious.

      We (The West) have had our insurrections and wars.

      We are a post war civilisation, striving for democracy.

      Democracy and progress, both of which seemingly need to be wrought from the shareholders of the kicking-and-screaming war machine that still spreads death and misery through inequality and intolerence.
      And their friends….

    366. Brian Doonthetoon at 10.05

      FFS man. I’ve no idea but sounds quite likely. I give up.

    367. Tinto Chiel says:

      BDDT: O Lucky Man! Looking forward to 18/9/16 @GG.

      As you know, Peter Green had a fantastic Blues voice. Pity the drugs got to him. He was light years ahead of the scene at the time.

      Well, it’s late and the thread is long, so the Rev. may forgive me for an O/T:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJWOtL-PZiE

      As smallaxe would say, peace and love.

      And so to him.

    368. Tinto Chiel says:

      Dave McEwan Hill: did you leave behind a consignment of Ronnie Anderson’s Scottish passports?

      They’ve been confusing MI5 for a fortnight.

      😀

    369. Tinto Chiel says:

      Meant to say this previously @ Grouse Beater 9.57 p.m.

      You probably have read this already but for others “A Line in the Sand” by James Barr says it all about western perfidy in the Middle East.

      No wonder they hate us.

      Unfortunately it’s always the proles who pay, in any country.

    370. Alex Clark says:

      @BDTT

      That was brilliant, I haven’t stopped laughing yet. Cheers 🙂

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmOvEwtDycs

    371. Croompenstein says:

      Why oh why did Michael White not join in this pish… any excuse to play this wee gem… 🙂

      https://tommymackay.bandcamp.com/track/michael-whites-moustache-2

    372. CameronB Brodie says:

      Robert J Sutherland
      I think I’m rational Robert (see what I did there), I’m as left-wing as Gandhi and I sometimes wish I had sufficient hair for a fringe.

      We seek a world in which there is room for many worlds.
      Subcommander Marcos
      Zapatista Army of Liberation (EZLN), Mexico

      I seek the same, a world that is not shaped by hegemonic power. I am Alex Salmond, I’m also Zapatista and possibly a bit of a smart-Erse, as well. 😉

    373. Ruby says:

      ‘Finally I was forced to admit that I work in a corrupted profession.” When award-winning journalist Nick Davies decided to break Fleet Street’s unwritten rule by investigating his own colleagues, he found that the business of reporting the truth had been slowly subverted by the mass production of ignorance. Working with a network of off-the-record sources, Davies uncovered the story of the prestigious “Sunday” newspaper which allowed the CIA and MI6 to plant fiction in its columns; the newsroom which routinely rejects stories about black people; the respected paper that hired a professional fraudster to set up a front company to entrap senior political figures; the newspapers which support law and order while paying cash bribes to bent detectives. Davies names names and exposes the national stories which turn out to be pseudo events manufactured by the PR industry, and the global news stories which prove to be fiction generated by a new machinery of international propaganda. He shows the effect of this on a world where consumers believe a mass of stories which, in truth, are as false as the idea that the Earth is flat – from the millennium bug to the WMD in Iraq – tainting government policy, perverting popular belief. With the help of researchers from Cardiff University, who ran a ground-breaking analysis of our daily news, Davies found most reporters, most of the time, are not allowed to dig up stories or check their facts – a profession corrupted at the core.’

      Nick Davies-Flat Earth News

    374. Alex Clark says:

      @Croompenstein

      Nice one. Just a snippet LOL

      I tried to focus on the words spilling out your face
      Michael White’s tache, Michael White’s tache
      But I cannae take you seriously for fuck sake
      Michael White’s tache, Michael White’s tache

    375. Robert Louis says:

      Sinky at 935pm,

      An interesting article by McWhirter, as you point out. He is, as he points out in his own book, more of a full fiscal autonomy/increased devolution person by instinct, but was persuaded by the arguments during the indy ref. I guess that means he sometimes looks at things from a slightly different perspective.

      I find however, his article is one of many, which makes the case of (using different phraseology), ‘hey with Brexit, Sotland could get a few more mickey mouse powers, you know, scraps from Westminster’. I sincerely hope and believe that is most definitely NOT the route map Nicola Sturgeon has, or I am confident that come the next Scottish election the SNP will no longer be in power. I certainly wouldn’t vote for them again – especially if we were taken out of the EU, and they didn’t even have the courage in such circumstances to call a referendum.

      It is always a worry, that a Government in power can become too comfortable, too settled, and then loses the fire to push for independence. I must confess, I have seen some signs this is now the case with the SNP. I have raised this on this forum a couple of times now. The most recent was my concern with Nicola Sturgeon’s speech in which she set out what her Government would protect (5 points) during Brexit talks, seriously omitting the very important point of EU MEMBERSHIP.

      What happened to ‘remain means remain’? Access to the free market is NOT EU membership, yet I see SNP politicians talking of one as though it is the other.

      There is, to my mind far too much talk of how the objective is to get the ‘best deal’ for Scotland, when we already know Scotland does not want to leave the EU. Unless of course the SNP is pursuing a different policy, and taking its supporters for fools. Would they ignore the referendum result?

      Anyway, back to the article, it is all very interesting, but I think recent history should inform MacWhirter, the Scottish Government and all of us, that promises or even worse ‘assurances’ from Westminster (a phrase I sadly heard from NS recently) are not worth the paper they are written on. All the supposed new powers which McWhirter raises are those which Scotland was to be given via the infamous ‘vow’ made by London.

      We now know the ‘vow’ was a complete lie, so to my mind the only way to secure Scotland’s place in the EU, is for Scotland to become independent. Whilst I initially, but reluctantly bought the argument put forward, that the ScotGov have to go through the motions of the brexit talks, before calling a referendum, now I do not. Westminster has made it very, very clear that Brexit will be for all the UK.

      Personally, I think she should have called it and set a date the morning of the referendum result on brexit. By effectively dithering she loses her hand.

      Perhaps come the next SNP conference, delegates will remind those in the Scot Gov, that it is independence WITHIN the EU we are seeking, not a parcel of yet more silly half powers delivered grudgingly and at a truly glacial pace, courtesy of our sneering overlords in London, outside the EU.

    376. Capella says:

      @ everybody – well if you’re going to post Fleetwood Mac links..

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuVcp_XbaTI

    377. david anderson says:

      Valerie, Valerie, Valerie, the passive aggressive know it all or nothing about Syria. No-one disprespects your ‘informed’ opinion it is just that that is all it is and we all have our own. but hey don’t let that stop you letting us all know what goes on in the world, we need the perspective of those obviously ‘in the know’. Those Syrian elections were far more legit than any we have seen before or after. Sure as hell those ballot papers lost/dumped/spoiled during the referendum woulda made the difference.

    378. Croompenstein says:

      Louise ‘Let’s be clear it’s the same team’ White sees Gavin’s letter to STV and the reply but hey ho it’s ok it’s just the once.. FFS

    379. Grouse Beater says:

      David Anderson: ” No-one disprespects your ‘informed’ opinion it is just that that is all it is, and we all have our own.”

      What kind of baloney is that? 🙂

      Defendant: I’m innocent, and that’s the truth, Your Honour.
      Prosecutor: The facts clearly point to the defendant’s guilt, Your Honour.
      Presiding Judge: Well, you’re both entitled to you opinion, as I am. And since none of us agree this case is dismissed, and we can all go to the pub.

    380. Grouse Beater says:

      Ruby on Nick Davies: “‘Finally I was forced to admit that I work in a corrupted profession.” When award-winning journalist Nick Davies decided to break Fleet Street’s unwritten rule by investigating his own colleagues, he found that the business of reporting the truth had been slowly subverted by the mass production of ignorance.”

      A timely reminder of how venal has become the British press.

    381. Gavin Barrie says:

      Well I just tweeted Louise with the link and identified myself so let’s see where this goes …

    382. heedtracker says:

      Robert Louis says:
      20 August, 2016 at 11:25 pm
      Sinky at 935pm,

      Personally, I think she should have called it and set a date the morning of the referendum result on brexit. By effectively dithering she loses her hand.”

      But is ref 2 actually winnable, considering Project Fear 2 also warming up, with it being led and coordinated by the BBC and BBC Scotland? Then you have all kinds of millionaires and billionaires ready to throw literally any amount of money behind No Thanks 2. JK Rowling sticks out but what’s a million or so quid to her and she’s just the tip of the super rich UKOK tory iceberg, that we don’t want to hit.

      And what happens to Scottish devo if ref 2 is lost, let alone an Sturgeon SNP Scots.gov? We could end up with the YES movement and the SNP dumped for Ruth/Kez/BBC Scotland unionist coalition who’s only mission is to destroy everything SNP Holyrood’s achieved. This is how several Scottish councils work, yoon coalitions who’s only job is standing still, blocking all indy progress in Scotland, filling crony pockets and above all, attacking SNP. High stakes and not to be rushed at.

    383. Tinto Chiel at 10 28

      I did indeed!!!!!!!

    384. Valerie says:

      @David Anderson

      Passive aggressive? Fuck off.

      Did I say I was in the know? Fancy providing the quote?

    385. Swami Backverandah says:

      Re Daisley:

      In Scotland, they know you have to hold both the politicians, and the journalists, to account.

    386. Valerie says:

      Sunday Guardian piece on the Brexit X Men, and how they are coping – not. Gives a stab at timetable with A50 date as Feb.2017.

      http://archive.is/NTnD9

    387. DerekM says:

      Syria well this is what it is all about

      https://www.neweurope.eu/article/israel-preserve-status-quo-oil-rich-golan-heights/

      Syria needs to cease to exist or the Heights will always be classed as occupied territory by the UN making it illegal to frack or sell the oil into the world markets.

      The whole thing is a disgrace and any politician in the UK who voted for this should spend the rest of their life behind bars for crimes against humanity.

    388. Alex Clark says:

      Wings is on fire the day yesterday whatever. You know what I mean.

    389. CameronB Brodie says:

      Frankly, I’m a bit on an essentialist. Fundilymundly, the nature of my essentialism is that I believe myself to be human. Fortunately, the international community has seen fit to bestow me with a number of legally protected, inalienable human rights. These include the right to self-determination and the right to development.

      Unfortunately I live in the UK, so these facts don’t count for much.

      @Alex Massie
      Right, that should be you up to speed, in terms of understanding postmodern, critical social theory. Still chose not to legitimise my humanity?

    390. CameronB Brodie says:

      soz. I’m a bit of an….

    391. Malky says:

      Yoon logic: where PI = PI = 3.141592, then bricks are heavy, so independence is bad.

    392. Breeks says:

      What I find bleak about the whole Middle East and ISIS is that there is no reliable narrative to tell you what is going on, and no realistic way to predict how it might all turn out. On the other hand, it is remarkably easy to join all the dots and track back to what started it all.

      This isn’t a war like any other I’ve seen. Public beheadings, crucifictions, people burned alive in cages or similarly drowned in cages… It really beggars belief what is going on. It’s not a war, its one of Dr Who’s rips in time which has taken the Middle East back in time to the Medieval period complete with torture and inquisition. It took Europe centuries to work itself more or less free of all that crap, and unfortunately for the Middle East, they seem to be running headlong away from peace and reconciliation.

      There are also worrying images amidst the anarchy of war of what look like Neutron bombs being used, and chemical weapons being used routinely. All raises a rather awkward question about WMD’s, and who is using them. It really is a vision to rival Dantés Inferno. I cannot imagine the terror of living there with a family of young kids. If the bombs don’t get you, the extremists will.

      It wouldn’t be the first time that a war zone has its conveniences for live firing of experimental weapons systems. I am also rather cynical about the Israelis roll in all of this, but it seems you’re not allowed to say that without being antisemitic.

      Curious parrallel that in Scotland you cannot criticise the media without being an enemy of free speech.

      The world becomes a very unstable and dangerous place when power mutates into belief that certain people are untouchable.

    393. Smallaxe says:

      @ Tinto Chiel,10:17pm

      Thank you my friend for linking to one of my favourite songs by Peter Green,have you listened to him with the Splinter Band? Some great blues.Peace,Love and Music.

    394. Sandy says:

      Dropped an E-mail to Mike Rumbles requesting that he retract his erroneous statement to the press re the “gagging” & that he humbly ask them to publish an apology. Also, to apologise on his own web site so that his decreasing number of acolytes are proud of him & not too dismayed & to prove that he is upright & honest.
      I wait with baited breath.

    395. Smallaxe says:

      @ Tinto Chiel,

      Sorry, I meant Splinter Group! He also does a great version of
      the Robert Johnson Songbook.Peace,Love and Music.

      Ps.Hope to meet you and all the other Suffrajocks at G.G.on the 18th.

    396. Robert Peffers says:

      @Sandy says: 21 August, 2016 at 7:22 am:

      ” … I wait with baited breath.”.

      Noo dinna ye bait yer breath ower muckle, Sandy. It’s no afa guid fir yer health and the Rumbles situation could rumble on for quite some time.

      Siccna Yoons dinna dae apology, ye ken. It’s again thir religion. Especially when thir biography states:-

      “Rumbles was born in South Shields in England and was educated at St James School in Hebburn, County Durham, Sunderland Polytechnic where he graduated with a BEd, and Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. He served in the Royal Army Education Corps retiring as a major in October 1994.”

    397. Sinky says:

      In defending Stephen Daisley, Euan McColm in this morning’s SoS doesn’t know the difference between newspapers which can print any old rubbish or blatant lies and most do when it comes to Scottish politics but broadcasters required to be impartial.

      Anyone who promotes Brian Spanner is beyond the pale.

      http://archive.is/6vOS5

    398. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      Phantom News?…Used to be called False flag operations back in the day. A favourite of sppoks everywhere.

    399. Thomas William Dunlop says:

      “You are posting comments too quickly. Slow down.”

      I got this the first time I tried to post. Is that part of the WoS operation or not?

    400. CameronB Brodie says:

      Thomas William Dunlop
      I think it’s what’s called a design feature. Nothing to worry about.

    401. Tam Jardine says:

      Valerie

      I wouldn’t bet against the February date slipping. It seems the UK government have decided on activating article 50 after a prolonged period of uncertainty.

      Are they waiting for recession to kick in so they can kick it into the long grass?

      This highlights the general problem with single issue referendums- politicians fight against democracy so they try to channel and interpret a public vote instead of acting on it.

      We keep hearing about not knowing what Brexit means even though it is explicitly clear. The same bastards who are now trying to interpret a public vote instead of acting on it framed a no vote against Scottish Independence as a vote for Holywood to be the most powerful devolved parliament in the world (then voted down every amendment that would have empowered Holyrood.

      Of course May is not daft and she knows that had she enacted article 50 immediately Nicola Sturgeon would have that all important political momentum to win indy ref 2. So Westminster does what it does best of all- the anchor is dropped, the gear slips back to neutral and everything is killed by inaction.

      I could barely read that guardian piece- in every sentence I can feel piss dripping down from above. The tories- the masters of public manipulation. We need out and soon

    402. Alex Clark says:

      @Sinky

      Euan McColm has a very short memory. I don’t, he boldly states:

      Former first minister Alex Salmond was especially vitriolic about journalism that did not meet up to the standards he expected (by which I mean journalism that did not meekly accept his every word as unquestionable gospel). Perhaps you remember when, shortly before the independence referendum, thousands of Yes campaigners gathered outside the BBC’s Scottish headquarters to demand the sacking of the corporation’s then political editor Nick Robinson. Staff were intimidated by an angry mob. But to Salmond, this was a civic and joyous display of democracy.

      Whereas of course the TRUTH of the matter can be found here.

      http://wingsoverscotland.com/out-in-the-open/

    403. Tinto Chiel says:

      Smallaxe: thanks for the tip re Splinter Group. Didn’t know about them. Hope to see you next month.

      DMHill: I’ve got spares if you’ve lost them.

      Apologies to all for going way off topic last night. Have punished myself this morning by a strict regime of Vichy water and bending exercises.

      Thomas William Dunlop: to be sure your comments get through try refresh. You then may be asked to resubmit, which you do. Otherwise your comment may disappear.

    404. Valerie says:

      @Tam Jardine

      Yes, I agree, but what I take some heart from is the EU feeling, which sours daily about UK.

      One tactic by the Tories might be to now set out the losses of Leaving, and go to Parliament on it. I think there is still a legal wrangle about whether the PM has delegated powers to trigger A50, or it has to be a WM decision. They estimate 100 Tories now support Remain, so a vote might split the Tories, although they have proven they submit to whipping.

      The bit about EU markets, and budgets was interesting. I hope the EU will apply diplomatic pressure.

    405. Doug says:

      O/T

      When is publishing 6 months early a ‘cowardly’ delay? When is is that dastardly Sturgeon trying to hide the 2015/6 GERS figures by, er, publishing them 5 months after the last set!

      http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sturgeon-cowardly-for-delaying-report-bcz0396gp

    406. liz says:

      Iain Martin, McColm are all followers of Spanner.
      That is enough in my book to make anything they say unacceptable.

      I wonder if all those nice middle class No voters realise they follow a troll like him.

      Martin was proud that he has spent 10 years in that London but doesn’t seem to realise or care that that means he is outside Scottish politics

      @sinky -loved the BLC on that Scotsman article, they were having none of it.

    407. heedtracker says:

      One of UKOK’s finest, rallying the tories, trolling everyone else. This would all make at least some sense if, a. the dude was sacked because of complaints and b. anyone cared whether he was sacked or not.

      Do and say anything anti Scottish democracy you like toryboy hackdom, maybe with less graphs, and Release Brian!

      Brian Spokemon ?@BrianSpanner1 32m32 minutes ago
      Euan McColm: Failing to back journalists puts free speech in danger

      Kevin Hague ?@kevverage 11h11 hours ago
      imagine living in country where people are targeted for abuse if they have the temerity to voice opinion that’s unhelpful to the government

    408. Alex Clark says:

      The media are the enemies of Free Speech. They absolutely despise Free Speech when it comes from the likes of US.

      Free Speech? Your aving a larf!

    409. K1 says:

      ‘Staff were intimidated by an angry mob.’

      Total lying bastard. I have footage on my mobile phone that utterly contradicts this lying bastard as well as no doubt hundreds of others who attended and subsequently posted footage elsewhere online, from that day.

      It was a peaceful, upbeat affair, wi music, humour and dancin’. We aw waved at the helicopter. What utter fucking excrement these so called journalists get away with, tae this day. Sick of it!

      (A wis too shy tae come over tae the Wings bit…that day)

    410. galamcennalath says:

      We want … a balanced and active media with free speech for all.

      The Unionists want … to prevent that at all costs because they know that would be their final downfall.

      The Union only still exists because they have almost they entire media spouting fictitious propaganda on their behalf.

    411. Alex Clark says:

      @K1

      Yep, I agree with everything you have said. Lying bastards right enough. A bit sad that you were too shy on that day, see you next time then 🙂

    412. Jock McDonnell says:

      The Tories are playing for time, some hope brexit will wither and others hope to drag it out to ensure a cadenced, less dramatic ending. Makes sense really when you are in uncharted waters.

    413. Chic McGregor says:

      The media’s main duty is to protect democracy from the Establishment.

      What they actually do, is precisely the opposite.

    414. Proud Cybernat says:

      O/T

      The real picture of Scotland’s accounts:

      http://imgur.com/a/tNgxA

    415. heedtracker says:

      All of this pathetic toryboy whineathon would at least make some sense if any of them, from this twerp to Spanner, would at least actually complain about who actually did fire their poor ickle wickle toryboy colleague, STV. Although that would make sense, and be actual journalism n shit.

      euan mccolm ?@euanmccolm 8h
      when politicians succeed in shutting up awkward journalists, we all lose something. my nauseating drivel in the hootsman

      Brian Spokemon ?@BrianSpanner1 14m
      Just for nationalist socialist laughs.

      Fringe comics flock to Sheppard’s aid

    416. Valerie says:

      From RTE

      Leading NI politicians have lodged papers in Belfast High Court on Brexit

      http://archive.is/lIUtb

    417. K1 says:

      And ‘if’ there had been an angry and intimidating ‘mob’ it would have been on the front pages of every newspaper in Scotland, with the police having to haud us aw back. The BBC would have released the footage to make the most of it and everyone and his fucking dug woulda been non stop pontificating about that.

      Funny how they never mention the 19th September 2014 ‘celebrations’ at George Square! That was a violent and ugly mob, not a fucking mention since and all we ever hear about is the PQ demos and that was before the actual 18th!

      It’s like screaming through triple glazing trying to get any of these bastards to stop lying and fabricating what has actually taken place. Then they wonder why people ‘do’ get angry…then they use that as ‘evidence’ to support the original lies…and round and round it goes. Sigh…

    418. Robert Louis says:

      So, what we have this Sunday morning, is lot of hubris of some rather too self important and overly precious so-called ‘journalists’, repeating lies about a story that was never true in the first place.

      It is like Scotland has gone through the looking glass.

      Are Scottish so-called ‘journalists’ on crack or something? Everybody and their granny knows the Daisley story isn’t true, yet still they bleat on, trying to pretend to the world, that it is. When the NUJ and STV (the employer)says the story isn’t true, then it’s a pretty fair bet the so-called ‘journalists’ are talking sh*te as usual.

      P.S. Bored of the Olympics two weeks ago. Even more bored now. Apparently for the bank holiday weekend, it is to be turned into one giant British nationalistic fettish. Hip, hip, hip, hooray, rule Britannia and all that.

      Remember the rule;

      British nationalism = Wonderful and harmless.

      Scottish nationalism = bad, fascist, nazism, oh, and let’s not forget the yoonatic prize winning phrase; ‘esque of hitler’.

    419. heedtracker says:

      So this weekend and for ever and ever, we’re all supposed to care about STV firing a silly toryboy, a continent bigger than the USA says no to nukes, again. Rancid The Graun don’t mention the red and blue tory £200bn Trident 2 nukes dumped 30 miles from Glasgow, because you’re British!

      http://archive.is/BMg2t

    420. The comments on this post are about Scottish journalists and the lack of truth and information coming out of Syria,

      would it not be great for both if Scottish journalists could drag themselves out the bars, brothels and drug dens and do what journalists are supposed to do,

      go to Syria and be an eye witness reporter on the mayhem that the UK has brought on that poor country and its citizens,

      certainly would restore a little faith in journalists/journalism.

    421. Proud Cybernat says:

      Be fair, people. BBC Scotland’s HQ WAS attacked during IndyRef#1. There’s pictures of it:

      http://imgur.com/a/TB1jT

    422. Alex Clark says:

      Let’s look at the facts. STV say:

      “Our output and content will continue to evolve and Stephen Daisley, digital politics and comments editor, is a key contributor to this as we enter the new parliamentary sessions.”

      John Nicolson says:

      But I’m left wondering about The Herald. Its story was wafer thin. It attributed a ludicrous amount of influence to me. Its claims have been debunked by all the players cited, including STV itself. And a key ingredient of the story was omitted – the Spanner tweets – as they were too offensive to publish. However, it allowed Gordon to write about Daisley, and Alex Massie then to knock off a Spectator piece about Gordon’s Herald piece. And as I write this, I notice that Gordon has tweeted his compliments about Massie’s piece about his own piece about Daisley.

      So here, it seems, is a key motive in contemporary Scottish journalism. In a world of plummeting print sales, a new newspaper tactic is emerging; shout something furious, if unsubstantiated, draw in your fellow commentators, and then sit back and allow the angry political tribes to engage online.

      http://www.thenational.scot/comment/john-nicolson-a-political-editor-who-airs-their-personal-views-is-behaving-unprofessionally.21416

      Ewan McColm says:

      See they nasty cybernats. Nasty so they are.

      http://archive.is/6vOS5

      I think the Dead Tree Press see the writing on the wall. It’s absolutely certain that the newspaper business is no longer sustainable. We should give it a decent burial, out of respect for Free Speech of course.

    423. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella (11:28pm).

      You posted a link:-
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iuVcp_XbaTI

      Thanks for that. I’ve known for years that the 7″ version of that track was not the definitive one but that there existed a version without the string section. I have a long version of the track but it has the strings as well.

      It was great to finally obtain a download of the stringless version! Thanks again.

    424. Tinto Chiel says:

      Proud Cybernat: vile cyber seps indeed.

      And don’t forget the appalling damage to Mr Angry Murray’s constituency office in the Perpetual People’s Republic of Morningside by that sticky Yes label.

      Swine, utter swinesoantheyurr.

    425. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Proud Cybernat.

      You typed,
      “Be fair, people. BBC Scotland’s HQ WAS attacked during IndyRef#1. There’s pictures of it:
      http://imgur.com/a/TB1jT

      I can offer more corroboration of the scenes of aggression and mayhem at that insurrection. Headline –

      BRAVE POLICEWOMAN HOLDS BACK SEPARATIST ANIMALS”

      https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/uploaded-pics-page-7/20140629_151244-1000.jpg

    426. Croompenstein says:

      I’m sick of these bastards trying to rewrite history, the BBC demo the Sunday before the ref had fuck all to do with Nick Robinson. It was organised weeks in advance and Nick the prick did his ‘didnt answer’ pish the midweek before the demo.

      Aye there was a banner calling for him to be disciplined but it was obviously made in the few days leading up to the demo.

    427. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Proud Cybernat –

      That’s a great snap.

      (And those look like familiar bodies in the background!)

      http://imgur.com/a/TB1jT

    428. HandandShrimp says:

      As far as I can see the simple truth is that journalists can dish it out but they can’t take it.

      In countries where free speech is not possible journalists and on line bloggers disappear, are murdered, beaten, arrested and have their newspapers shut down or their equipment confiscated.

      Here in Scotland, if a politician says someone is not impartial or we say that Tom Gordon or Daisley are talking shite then that somehow equates to suppression of the free press. That is just so much crap. Free speech works both ways. They don’t get to say what they like without criticism.

      Nobody has been murdered, arrested, or shut down. FFS! I don’t think anyone has even thrown an egg or stuck a Still Yes sticker on one of these people.

      The biggest problem in the UK is that most of the journalists are lazy third rate hacks working for organisations that would not pay tuppence ha’penny for genuine investigative journalism.

      Rant over 🙂 The biggest irony is of course that the general population don’t give a toss. This is just playing to a small Twitter bubble and massaging a few bruised journalistic egos. They are not fighting for the free press. They just don’t like being called out for being partisan twats.

    429. Alex Clark says:

      @BDTT

      Great picture Brian. And Ian, yes I did spot a whale of a man in the background 🙂

    430. Capella says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon – welks. I just love a beautifully played blues guitar.

    431. Croompenstein says:

      @BDTT – Caz-m with the banner there, whats happened to caz-m don’t see him on here now ?

    432. Alex Clark says:

      @HandandShrimp

      Great post. Things must be bad for you to use a sweary word. No matter it was well justified.

    433. Alex Clark says:

      @Capella

      If you like good guitar then check out my Top Ten Johnny Cash on Off Topic. I’m away to watch it again LOL

    434. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Croompenstein
      Im gled tae report caz-m is alive an well, he,s recovering from a foot injury, but he & his son Martyn will be with us at the Wings stall on the 18th Sept Glasgow Green.

    435. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Croompenstein –

      Caz-m was at the last meet-up in Freedom Square a few weeks back and was in fine form.

      🙂

    436. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Briandoonthetoon Aye that wee Sam the Poliswummin held hoards of vile Cybernats at bay wie ah Smile.

      Weil done Sam ah cridit tae Scottish Policing.

    437. Capella says:

      @ Alex Clark – ha ha – that Johnny Cash is great – for the lyrics.
      A croft in clachan (The ballad of Rob macdunn). Musical genius.

    438. Brian Doonthetoon says:

      Hi Capella.

      You typed,
      “welks”.

      It’s maybe a regional cultural thing but I don’t get the reference to edible gastropods and their relevance to blues guitar. In this neck of the woods, they are farmed from the beach down at the Stannergate.

      I never ever let one pass my lips. Their contents looked rather like that which was produced from the nasal passages of some of my primary school classmates.

      What are they where you are?

      Onnyhoo, an excellent piece of blues guitar for you. It’s from the album “Cabal”, by the John Dummer Band (1969). The band members on that album were John Dummer (drums), Tony McPhee (guitar, vocals), Dave Kelly (guitar, vocals), Joanne Kelly (his sister, vocals), Thumper Thomson (bass) and John O’Leary (harmonica).

      Tony McPhee went on to form The Groundhogs, Dave Kelly The Blues Band and John Dummer and Thumper Thomson Darts.

      Here’s “Blue Guitar”.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCGoUVdtnfo

      You can listen to or download the complete “Cabal” album here:-

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMDt7j-JjKM

      (Gonna post this in ‘off-topic’ as well.)

    439. Capella says:

      @ Brian Doonthetoon – wow – that is brilliant blues guitar. Thanks for the link.
      Welks = welcome!

    440. HandandShrimp says:

      Hi Alex

      I swithered about swearing but it seemed appropriate in this context. They really are an absolute shower.

    441. Sandy says:

      Robert Peffers.
      Ta for the boigraphy re Rumbles.
      Being ex-army & one of the higher echelons of same, no doubt was well indoctrinated & in turn, able to indocrinate the gullible. And so he continues.

    442. Do we have any dates yet for J.K.’s tour with The Spanner Set?

    443. Paul Vermehren says:

      I’m being pedantic, but a Scooby Doo episode usually only has one phantom. And they tend to be real rather actual phantoms. Maybe not the best comparison.

      How about “more phantoms than a Halloween party”?



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