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Wings Over Scotland


Mathematician Of The Week

Posted on October 24, 2016 by

The former Chancellor of the Exchequer in today’s Press & Journal:

darlingcount

55-45 is “far more decisive” than 62-38? We think we’re finally beginning to understand why the last Labour government left the British economy in such a mess.

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111 to “Mathematician Of The Week”

  1. Doug Daniel says:

    Seems a bit unfair when the man himself can no longer reply to criticisms on Twitter, frankly.

  2. Thepnr says:

    Has that man ever said anything, anything at all that seemed to make sense.

    NO.

  3. Paula Rose says:

    Rev Honey can we have those complicated figures in a nice graph please?

  4. Effijy says:

    Flipper Darling is quite smug that the Scottish Fools who believed him, his right wing Labour party, and his controllers in the real right wing Tory party, can’t even count on their fingers.

    He has made several £Million for himself by Flipping Tax payer funded homes, £250,000 for after dinner speaking about the Better Together Lie, and of course he lands a very nice banking job as a reward for using Tax payer’s money to cover the casino bankers bad debts.

    Throw all that is with his wee seat in the House of Lords, and Ermine robe and a very fat pension, and he is entitled to look down his nose at we ordinary paupers.

    For it is easier for a Camel to pass through the eye of a needle that a stinking rich Trotskyite to embrace the Kingdom of Scotland’s asperations!

  5. chic says:

    . . . and if you are going to try to do a nice graph, try not to make a dogs dinner of it!

  6. Joemcg says:

    He probably means the 52-48 UK wide percentage but still not “far more decisive”

  7. manandboy says:

    For a former Chancellor of the Exchequer, it must be quite humiliating to have to read this kind of poorly scripted material in order to make it into the media.
    It is so obviously written by someone of much lower intelligence than our Alistair, but then that’s always been the case since Labour jumped into bed with the Tories for the IndyRef14 campaign.

  8. dakk says:

    Listair Darling has only a union jack perspective.That means 52 to 48 in favour of Brexit.

    You couldnt imagine he would ever look at life from a Scottish perspective.

    He and his ilk are the scourge of Scotland and the saviours of merry olde England.

  9. bobajock says:

    People, I come to you with a proposition. I will feed you facts and the truth. You will believe me.

    And in this hand …

  10. Quentin Quale says:

    Oh at least say it like you mean it, Alistair. Or are you just making sure you dont get offered the Leadership of the doomed Better Together #2?

  11. muttley79 says:

    Of course British nationalist Alistair Darling is referring to the UK wide 52-48 per cent vote to leave the EU. Scotland has never really figured much in Darling’s calculations in truth, beyond it offering a safe seat so that he could kneel abjectly at the feet of the British establishment, and one day be rewarded for said grovelling by ‘elevation’ into the House of Lords. It would be ridiculous to expect such a political chancer to even notice the result of the EU referendum in Scotland, let alone be concerned with and at such a democratic deficit.

  12. galancennalath says:

    Maybe he was overseas making lots of dosh when the Brexit vote was announced. He really should try to catch up with events in Scotland before he opens his mouth. A lot has happened since the 19th of September 2014.

  13. galamcennalath says:

    Maybe he was overseas making lots of dosh when the Brexit referendum result was announced. He really should try to catch up with events in Scotland before he opens his mouth. A lot has happened since the 19th of September 2014.

  14. Cadogan Enright says:

    ? It says more about the man himself……

    But what does it say about the Press and Journal ?

  15. Terry says:

    Anyone else been noticing how post Brexit the EU is referred to as a “bloc”? Last time that was mentioned was the communist bloc.

  16. heedtracker says:

    Greater English region of Scotland’s still under the control of a red or blue tory regime that’s busy cutting Westminster MP numbers, while boosterising Westminster Lords, overflowing with dudes like Flipper. Wonder why.

  17. Dr Jim says:

    Question : Why does nobody take Nick Clegg seriously

    Answer : Nobody on the BBC told us to

    And yet…. two former failed disliked incompetent lying has beens (Brown and Darling) open their mouths, spout crap and Scotland says Oh OK then that must be right because folks…the BBC said so

  18. Hamish100 says:

    Tory paper getting worried. EVEN Universities of Aberdeen and Glasgow are saying REMAIN.
    England says to Wales Northern Ireland and Scotland do as you are told. There are no other options. The Union is for Englands benefit, not ours. Mundell, Labour? Harris support England against Scotland. Any other options? No, never, Never, never! (well unless you are London financial areas or a car plant in Sunderland)
    of course there are https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_member_state_territories_and_the_European_Union

  19. Macart says:

    So, not only is auld eyebrows arithmetically challenged, but he’s bound and determined to ignore the constitutional crisis and economic catastrofuck his self centred fuckwittery has brought upon us all.

    Who knew? A liar and a coward.

    What he’s asking of course, is that the First Minister completely ignores the result of one referendum in favour of another… basically his preference of course.

    What he fails to take into account, or rather doesn’t give a shit about, is that the decision is not for the First Minister to take. Its ours.

    Mind you, Alizzdairrrr was never one to let little things like accountability, duty or responsibility alter his path to ermine eh?

  20. Sinky says:

    For younger readers who don’t remember his disastrious handling of the first Banking crash … He was a Chancellor of Exchequer with no financial background whatsover … just like Gordon Brown.

    It was the UK regulatory authorities headed by Chancellor of Exchequer Alistair Darling that had the powers to investigate the RBS / AMRO take over but ignored fact that no due diligence was done by RBS on a deal worth £49 billion before they gave its approval for the world’s biggest bank take over deal that brought about the collapse of the Royal Bank.

    Incredibly, the FSA overlooked the rules on capital by allowing Goodwin and RBS to dip below 4%, below the minimum regulatory requirement on capital, to do the ABN Amro deal. So much for relying on the UK regulatory body.

    At the time Fred Goodwin was an adviser to Alistair Darling as Chancellor, and was still a member of a key Treasury body advising Labour months after the banking crisis and quitting RBS.

    Darling learnt no lessons from the collapse of Northern Rock in September 2007, and his March 2008 Budget speech just six months after the first UK bank collapse makes embarrassing reading today: “…we have maintained confidence and stability in the banking system … We have turned welfare into work and borrowing into wealth creation.”

    In a BBC Today Programme Lecture on 2nd May 2012, the Governor of the Bank of England, Sir Mervyn King criticised the lack of action by Alistair Darling and the last Labour government in the earliest days of the banking crisis when the first UK Bank, sorry English bank, Northern Rock, failed, which King said could have cost up to one million people their jobs. Decisive action would have at least mitigated the problems encountered by other Banks including HBOS and RBS a year later.

    More background at
    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/cameron-demands-apology-for-rbs-mess-from-darling-and-brown/

  21. Cadogan Enright says:

    GA Ponsonby tacking the BBC with real skill and style

    I love the florish in the last sentence. http://indyref2.scot/gordon-wilson-another-bbc-scotland-agenda-day

    I will write to the Scottish President reccomending a medal for GA come the day

  22. Chic McGregor says:

    I think he meant that 55:45 for indyref1 was a ‘far more decisive’ result than 52:48 was for the euref.

    Of course ‘far more decisive’, even in that context, stretches the elastic of credibility beyond the breaking point of semantics and I sincerely hope a particularly stinging fragment smacks him in the gob.

    However, I think he just inately entirely ignores the Scottish euref result, because, of course, in his deluded brain, Scotland is merely a region of Greater England.

  23. yesindyref2 says:

    Alistair Darling – a man of many talents.

    But nobody knows what they are yet.

  24. Papadox says:

    Tory boy Darling (born and bred) used the SLAB machinery to get into the establishment bed and access the Westminster honeypot. He is just a crawler, always has been and always will be. The establishment SLAB were willingly used for Darling and others benefit so long as they got to hold on to the establishments coat tails and got a turn at the honey pot. How the hell you can get a chencelor who is hopeless with numbers (expenses excepted). Alistair was a Tory in labour clothes. In other words a fraud. Despicable creature. COOCOO!

  25. heedtracker says:

    Did Flipper say “While the UK narrowly voted to leave the EU, almost two-thirds of Scots who took part in the ballot wanted to remain part of the bloc.” Or is it just another helping of tory Britnat hackdom’s vote NO stuff?

    or

    “Downing Street has insisted that the Holyrood government has no mandate for a second referendum after independence was rejected in 2014,” is what ex Graun ligger was stating as fact on BBC Newsnight tonight.

    If it’s in the last SNP manifesto, what does a mandate have to actually be on planet toryboy? With alleged election fraud in 30+ tory wins last GE, imagine SNP trying to even exist in tory BBC led media land with that level of endemic corruption hanging over them.

    But its Lord Flipper’s tory world, we just live in it and pay for it.

  26. Chic McGregor says:

    Sinky
    The biggest lie at that time was the cover up regarding the saintly good English bank, Barclay’s which it turned out had more of a bailout than HBOS and RBS combined.

    Indeed Barclays were inexplicably allowed to be absent from the infamous Gunfight at the UK Coral where Butch ‘clunking fist’ Cassidy and the Sundance ‘eyebrows’ Kid scuppered the ‘Scottish’ banks.

  27. Graeme Doig says:

    Flipper and Broon. Two arses with the same cheek.

  28. HandandShrimp says:

    No, No, No

    You have to look at the margin….the margin where Alistair scribbled “I hope people forget I said a No vote would secure their EU citizenship…better just spoof it and make shit up”

    I actually think Alistair burnt out all his fuses in that second debate and is no longer firing on any cylinders.

  29. yesindyref2 says:

    Mmm, in financial circles in which Darling would be completely at home and within his competence of course, margin refers to buying shares of stock or other securities with a combination of the investor’s own funds and borrowed funds. If the stock price changes between its purchase and sale, the result for the investor is leverage, meaning that the investor’s percentage gain or loss is magnified compared to the percentage gain or loss had the investor purchased shares without borrowing.

    The term Margin, in all three senses, is further defined and illustrated below, with examples, in context with related concepts.

    1). Let the banks in the UK go to the casino with taxpayers money and blow the lot. This is known as a very negative margin, and is as conceptually as unsound as the punter.

    2). Make up a load of stuff to win a referendum, this is known as a temporary margin, but before you can cash in your chips wayhay Brexit comes along and totally hacks people orf. This is the concept known as “Indy Ref 2”.

    3). Using someone else’s referendum result to try to kid people on it’s their margin after all because they’re just part of the stocks and chattels of the empirical fund. This is known as a margin call, and unfortunately for the investor there’s no security, it’s just a bluff, and if the bluff is called the margin reverses for the original temporary margin and then you get what’s called an “Independence” call.

    My apologies to anyone who bothered to read that load of, but hey, I’m pretending I’m the Darling of the people. Or something.

    Frankly.

  30. crazycat says:

    I don’t doubt that AD meant the margin in the UK as a whole, but he’s missing the point – it’s the margin in Scotland that could affect the appetite for/likely outcome of another independence referendum.

  31. Bill McDermott says:

    O/T Get over to GA Ponsonby’s site for a great fund raising idea to put up billboards all over Scotland showing the duplicity of the BBC.

    http://indyref2.scot/bbc-misinformation-appeal-raises-thousands-in-one-day

  32. Bob Mack says:

    Theresa May can’t count either. She has told the devolved governments of Scotland ,Wales ,and N Ireland to stay away and not upset the UK’S bargaining position. If memory serves ,that only leaves England. Ergo England equals the UK.
    Glad that is sorted.

  33. yesindyref2 says:

    I actually think Alistair burnt out all his fuses in that second debate and is no longer firing on any cylinders.

    That’s my favourite.

  34. cirsium says:

    @sinky, 11.22

    It’s worse than that. Alistair Darling designed the “lite touch”regulatory framework –

    “The responsibility for the architecture was largely mine.  When we were in opposition in the early 1990s, Gordon had asked me to take responsibility for the City.  I realised quickly that getting the right supervision and regulatory regime was essential and set about planning for the change in regulatory control which we implemented once we were in power” – quote from his book (Back from the Brink: 1000 days at Number 11 (2011) )

  35. Chic McGregor says:

    To reiterate.
    Contrary to the well worn mantra ‘follow the money’ we should instead adopt ‘do NOT follow the money, follow the production per capita ratio instead’.

    This is particularly true in regard to the Scotland-England balance of trade.

    There are lies, damned lies and accountancy tricks and the UK Establishment is a past master at those.

    If we can establish, and I am sure we can, that in nearly all tradeable components Scotland produces more per capita than the rUK then that gives the lie to any establishment massaged nominal monetary figure however that has been produced.

  36. CameronB Brodie says:

    Might I suggest the price of the numpty’s ennoblement was his scant regard for human rights. What price do you place on human rights?

    “The right to development is an inalienable human right by virtue of which every human person and all peoples are entitled to participate in, contribute to, and enjoy economic, social, cultural and political development, in which all human rights and fundamental freedoms can be fully realized.” (Article 1.1, Declaration on the Right to Development)

    “The human right to development also implies the full realization of the right of peoples to self-determination, which includes, subject to the relevant provisions of both International Covenants on Human Rights, the exercise of their inalienable right to full sovereignty over all their natural wealth and resources.” (Article 1.2)

    http://www.un.org/en/events/righttodevelopment/pdf/rtd_at_a_glance.pdf

  37. Ian says:

    Coffee darling.

    No I wasn’t asking if you wanted one I was telling you to go and make one. About time you did something useful. Splash of milk no sugar.

  38. DerekM says:

    Ah the man who saved the financial world from himself by making everybody else pay for it.

    And they stick a title on him when most Scots would much rather see some handcuffs.

  39. Robert Graham says:

    Just in case any of you plebs missed it this is England’s Brexit and dont you bloody well forget it Treesa said so today ok .

  40. CameronB Brodie says:

    Might I also suggest that if Captain D is using the UK-wide Brexit vote as an indication of Scottish interests, the man is out of his depth. I think there is a particular technical word used in philosophical discipline when describing such rhetorical techniques. It might be “talking pish” but maybees naw.

    Anyway, in light of the lack of Captain D’s deductive reasoning, here’s an introduction to non-deductive reasoning (induction & probability, abduction, etc.).

    Valid deductive arguments guarantee that the
    conclusion is true if the premises are…….

    http://www.utsc.utoronto.ca/~seager/a10_03.pdf

  41. call me dave says:

    Darling the Great Nictator…cannae count but paid off in ermine!

    Herald:
    Frustrated First Minister warns Whitehall not to slam door in Scotland’s face on Brexit

    http://archive.is/4M69U

    Here’s a bit of interesting news discussed on Radio 5 early this morning. A decision coming along shortly.

    When the sun never set on the British Empire (nothing changes)

    In Guyana, a Land Dispute With Venezuela Escalates Over Oil
    precious stones and minerals too.

    http://archive.is/lvsN6

    Wee piece:

    That appeared to be the end of the controversy until 1949, when a letter from an American lawyer in the proceedings was made public, asserting that the British judges had colluded with the Russian diplomat to force an outcome benefiting Britain.

  42. manandboy says:

    After flipper comes Theresa May for whom 1+3=1.
    But then, she really cant work anything out very well.

    May could have tried to heal the dangerous wounds of the Brexit vote by pursuing a moderate strategy which kept the UK in the single market, while giving the devolved assemblies genuine roles of substance in the Brexit process, instead of the belated promise of monthly meetings with Davis.

    But she chose to confirm every part of the nationalist narrative: She pays no attention to the wishes of the British nations, she pays them no respect, she fobs them off with meaningless meetings while making all the key decisions without consulting them, and she does nothing to calm the growing English nationalism and xenophobia whose political currents put the United Kingdom at risk.

    May thinks she has the strategic advantage. In fact, she is largely frittering that advantage away while poisoning the relations between the nations of the United Kingdom.

    (Ian Dunt is the editor of Politics.co.uk)

  43. manandboy says:

    The biggest mistake made by the electorate of the UK, repeatedly, since Mgt Thatcher was PM, has been to believe that Government in the UK is made up of law abiding citizens.

    This was largely due to the British cultural belief that if you dressed respectably then you must be respectable and could therefore be trusted. It is for this reason that the two piece suit with collar and tie remains standard menswear for politicians, as well as businessmen. This was and remains still, particularly true of the Conservative party.

    Throw in British State propaganda, and bob’s your uncle.

    It is perhaps also an indictment of the people who have lived in the UK since 1979, but I leave that to the judgement of others.

  44. Jamie says:

    The EU referendum was not about whether Scotland should remain in the EU, but about whether the whole UK should remain in the EU.
    It was not two-thirds of Scots but two-thirds of those eligible to vote in Scotland who wanted to remain part of the bloc.
    I don’t know the figures, but the Independence referendum allowed people who were not allowed to vote in the EU referendum to vote. It’s quite possible that if the people eligible to vote in both were compared a higher proportion would have voted to remain in the UK than in the EU. We cannot know without more referendums whether people eligible to vote in Scotland regard remaining in the EU as more important than remaining in the UK or whether they would like to leave both.

  45. frankieboy says:

    Clearly, AD cannot make a statement without making it clear that he is clearly quite clear about it. He never is, frankly.

  46. Sandy says:

    Watched Mundell on STV 10.30 last night. Got me thinking. Has he ever come out with a sensible or original statement? All he had to offer was the same rubbished diatribe he has been uttering since God knows when. Obviously, he has rehearsed this because the interviewer was well aware what was to be said, hence his interuptions which, basically, Fluffy ignored.
    What a waste of time.
    Does he get paid for his appearance? If he does, he gives we viewers a laugh in that we laugh AT him, not WITH him, the same man who says that Scotland ceased to exist, 1707, yet has the timerity to accept the title, Secretary of State for Scotland. That man deserves to go far, suggest a short pier at high tide.

  47. yesindyref2 says:

    Reporting in Record is pretty good for the JMC. For instance: “It bears repeating that Theresa May’s Downing Street operation better get a grasp of what is involved in dealing with Scotland.” in recordview. I noticed too the Scotsman is getting good.

    I also noticed a July article on Sionaidh Douglas-Scott about EU in the Record, sorry if it’s been pointed out, July I’m busy off my feet: “An independent Scotland would only need majority to join EU, even if Spain wanted to block it, expert reveals”. I never saw that until now. (archive.is gives error)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20160705163035/http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independent-scotland-would-only-need-8343623

    I get the feeling too that journos are doing more scanning below the line to see what’s going on – the odd meme creeping in to their articles. My guess is a lot of people while knowing fine Sturgeon want Independence are, all the same, impressed by her dogged determination to chase all options short of Indy Ref 2, and are almost against themselves, getting right behind her rather than being cynical. Note that in the Record “dealing with Scotland”, NOT “dealing with Sturgeon / SNP”. Big change I think.

    Hearts and minds.

  48. yesindyref2 says:

    Come the hour, come the woman, and by God she’s absolutely outstanding. I have wondered at times if she’s going in too many directions, but perhaps that’s part of it all.

    See the thing is you can set your plan, know what you want to achieve, and still go in another direction, as long as you do it totally genuinely. And there’s no doubt she is genuine in what she’s trying to achieve, and I think that’s what’s impressing so many who would otherwise be cynical about it. They understand exactly what she’s up to, but it’s genuine, and nobody can fault that.

    You’re always going to get those who sneer at it, pick holes in it, like Mundell, Tomkins, but that’s because they don’t even understand the meaning of the word genuine, let alone recognise it when they see it.

    When Sturgeon said yesterday she wasn’t playing a game, well, she wasn’t, and isn’t, and won’t be. She’s playing it straight up, no twist!

  49. Macart says:

    @Yesindyref2

    Couldn’t agree more.

    Said from the get go that the FM was serious about pursuing ALL possibilities, including retaining both unions. The fact that its almost a dead cert impossibility was never going to prevent her from attempting to keep the promise the Scottish Government made two years ago. It may frustrate the bejebus out of the rest of us, but governing for ALL the people of Scotland IS the day job.

    What she will NOT do is surrender the Scottish electorates right to choose. If May heads for hard Brexit and closes out the input of the other legislations, as seems likely after yesterday’s performance and the ongoing anecdotal releases from EU sources over the past few weeks, then a second indyref seems the only course left open to the FM. May’s and the UK government’s own arrogant, selfish and ignorant approach is going to prove decisive.

    Warning the the devolved legislations not to scupper the UKs exit strategy?!?! Seriously?

    So what is May’s definition of the UK at this point d’you think? Three out of four attending yesterdays meeting express frustration and unease and only the fourth representative believes it has a sole right to negotiate and keep those ‘plans’ (see under catastrophuk) to itself. Doesn’t sound very better togetherish t’me. Certainly doesn’t sound as if May is attempting to keep UK government’s 2014 promise to the population of Scotland on guaranteeing that place in the EU and that IS May’s job, yes? To honour the wishes of Scotland’s electorate and KEEP THE PROMISES made during the 2014 indyref.

    Westminster will be Westminster. Their own arrogance their sense of entitlement, their own lack of belief that union means PARTNERSHIP will ensure that a second indyref is inevitable. Nature of the beastie and all that. 😉

  50. jimnarlene says:

    Here’s some arithmetic, Mr Darling.

    Take the population of Scotland, add some fear and lies; equals continued union.

    Take the population of Scotland, subtract their EU memship and add their growing realisation that they were fooled in 2014; equals the end of your precious union.

  51. Giving Goose says:

    I’ll bet he can count his £300 expenses a day!

  52. Liz g says:

    Yesindyref2 & Macart
    I third that.
    What I think the MSM either don’t know or refused to see is that yesterday Nicola was the most powerful person in the room.
    Every single one of the others could be brought down by plotters with in there own administration and their own parliament’s.
    They are surrounded by people that they have to appease.
    Nicola’s closest rivals Ruthie & kez are not really in any position to damage her position here at home.
    But more to the point May can’t bring down Nicola,cant and dare not lay a glove on her.
    Nicola has the backing of a united party and a clear majority from her electorate.
    But Nicola can effect May in many area’s her position, power,EU negotiation,international standing and her legacy.
    So why would she have to bluff , when you have power you can make demands.
    There’s no need for Nicola to hide that she is hacked of at having her time wasted by people with nothing to say….and she didn’t.
    She also has the ability to carry out her threat of another referendum, with everything to gain and a good starting base,coupled with a formidable party machine.
    As Nicola herself said she is not playing games, why would she.

  53. Maria F says:

    jimnarlene says:
    25 October, 2016 at 6:19 am

    “…equals the end of your precious union”

    And his £300 a day expenses

  54. Liz g says:

    Maria F @ 7.15
    I for one can’t wait to see what the English public want to do about the Scottish Noble’s.
    All the Lords and Ladies who have helped to facilitate the myths about Scottish scrounger’s.
    Westminster always sayin it wants to trim the HOL numbers.
    The voter’s wanting it cut back too.
    The media have also had a go at reforming it,when they need a cause.
    Wonder if they really think that the system they uphold will look after them?
    Or are they about to find out that they should have put their faith in Karma not Crown’s.

  55. Phronesis says:

    Brexit is the political rupture that will facilitate Scotland’s autonomous status.UKOK knows it has perpetuated a grand deception about Scotland’s parity with the UK,its ability to self-govern and economic viability. Scotland’s electorate had to become self- educated to investigate this reality and share information that has been obscured through the mists of time to Scotland’s disadvantage. It is the pervasive psychopathology in the mal-united UK that Indyref1 unmasked.

    Scotland will collectively mentalise and anticipate its inevitable independence. Perhaps a swift clean break is best,less mess and emotional turmoil for UKOK that will require rather lengthy sessions of psychotherapy to reconcile its id with its super ego.

    There is no alternative, frankly.

  56. Orri says:

    Any possibility Gordon Wilson was edited? Just asking as he was wheeled out to advocate UDI before the 2015 GE. Perhaps he explained that in his opinion without polls showing a huge lead there was no point in a referendum. Easy enough to let a retired general whiter on until you get enough footage and then cut out the good bits.

  57. Ken500 says:

    The difference between a £300Billion Oil Fund and full employment. Stinking, rotten, unelected Westminster Unionists Parties who haven’t got a clue.

    Labour can’t count of read a balance sheet. Nicola can stick it to them and they don’t like it. May hasn’t a clue. Clueless.

    Lying, sleekit, murdering, greedy low lives who are coming to their end,

    Look at the way NI is treated, twice the ‘deficit’ (pro rata), open borders etc. A Law unto themselves.

    Darling and the VOW. Once in a life time. Scotland will not be cheated again by EVEL. Sleekit, lying, Cameron is gone. Stabbed in the back my his own mates. Serves him right, The lying Tory Party. A bunch of Cons. Most of them should be in jail. They are destroying the world economy.

    They just make folk more annoyed and angry at their incoherent ramblings.

    Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

  58. cearc says:

    At the bottom of the NS story at:-

    http://www.thecanary.co/2016/10/24/nicola-sturgeon-nails-what-everyones-really-thinking-about-theresa-mays-brexit-strategy-video/

    there is an ad for Torrance’s ‘autobiogaphy’. Perhaps people with facebook accounts would like to point out the unreliability and lack of authority of this ‘author’ and his autobiographies’.

  59. DerekM says:

    Did not see Mr Harvey saying that,nice one Patrick figured out finally its not good to play politics with the bosses when they have only one policy independence?

    For yoon pretend politicians use only :- bosses equals people of Scotland and not the SNP you thickos.

  60. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Maggie May has, if nothing else, an instinct for survival. The immigrant numbers increased markedly on Broon’s watch, one of the messages we got from the incoming Tory/Lib-Dem government was: we will tackle immigration. May went to the Hoe Office, with clear instructions to cut the number of immigrants – she failed to do this, but, not only survived, she got the top job.

    She was supposedly a Remainer during the EU Referendum, but, is now determined to force a hard Brexit. She will, I am absolutely certain, take the UK out of the EU without caring one iota for Scottish opinion.

    I can see, the final poll before Indyref2 indicates that Yes will win: at the same time, the City of London screams that they are losing financial jobs to Dublin and a free Scotland.

    At that point, she will suddenly offer the Scottish Government a means whereby Scotland can have some sort of associate member status within Europe, or even a reverse Greenland option.

    This will be the Vow of Indyref2. I just hope there are enough of us able to quote the Who back at her and we don’t get fooled again.

  61. Ian MacDonald says:

    Even accounting for the lower turnout for the EU referendum, the actual number votes in between Remain/Leave in Scotland far outweigh the No/Yes vote, by 643 thousand vs 384 thousand.

  62. starlaw says:

    orri 7.59
    Gordon Wilson was edited I heard the entire interview. Gordon was rambling on about how things should have been.
    when he got round to the current situation Brewer diverted him, and how easily he was diverted. Best for Scotland for Gordon to do no interviews.

  63. Orri says:

    The Greens are on board, in part, because of the deliberate attempts by Westminster to block and delay carbon capture, wind and tidal power. The withdrawal of support for solar might also be a factor. Add to that that having undermined Scotland’s future as a, relatively, green energy supplier they then go ahead with a new generation of nuclear. I’m not dogmatic about that latter but cost wise it seems a deliberate policy of if not crippling our economy but also telling us to get to fuck.

  64. Macart says:

    @Liz G

    Oh, there are those in the media who are well aware of the situation. They’ll simply neither print or broadcast those facts. The most pertinent being that Scotland IS a partner in the union, one of the two treaty signatories present.

    She made her position crystal clear. Her government has proposals which could, in theory (because that’s all that exists in this unprecedented circumstance), retain both unions and avoid an immediate indyref. THAT is what her population required of her, the conclusion of the last indyref required of her and what abiding by the letter of her duty of care to ‘the day job’ requires of her. She has no interest or intent of scuppering any ‘deal’ for England and Wales or denying them the result of the referendum they voted for.

    How and ever, if May will not live up to UK gov’s end of the Treaty of ‘Union’, the result of the indyref 2014 or the Scottish result of EU ref 2016, she WILL pull the trigger on a second independence referendum in Scotland, no question. For she will NOT deny the Scottish electorate’s right to choose or allow them to be harmed more than necessary from the boneheaded and negligent actions of Westminster government.

    No, she certainly IS NOT bluffing and she has the constitutional right, the legal weight and the popular mandate to carry out the actions necessary to allow Scotland’s electorate to make their own decision.

    The political union is coming to an end. It may be a matter of months, or it may be a few more years, but it is coming to an end. The societal and political gulf wholly created by central government’s greed, arrogance and ideology have all but made it inevitable.

  65. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Tarff Advertiser piece is a keeper Nana.

    I know the look he’s talking aboot only too well. 😀 LOL

  66. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    P&J, The Neo Facist “Voice of the North”, this morning going with a:

    “Sturgeon slapped down over Brexit talks” article by Andrew Liddle who is not even pretending to be impartial now.

    Article has comment from the Ruthenfuhrer needing the FM to rule out another IndyRef saying:

    “If the first minister (sic)* truly wants to act in the best interests of Scotland, she should take her plans for an unwanted independence referendum off the table.”

    *No capital F or M for First Minister tut, tut naughty P&J.

    No mention of this quote by the First Minister though:

    “To be brutally frank about it, you can’t undermine something that doesn’t exist, and from everything I have heard today in Downing Street there isn’t yet a UK Government negotiating position.”

    So Unionist line is still:

    1. Don’t mention that Brexit is a sh*t show ‘cos we don’t have a clue what we’re doing and have pissed off the rest of the EU

    2. No appetite for IndyRef2

    IndyRef2 definitely no wanted by the Yoons, not us Scottish Separatists.

    Just when will Rooth the Mooth stop talking about Independence and get on with the day job? 🙂

  67. One_Scot says:

    ‘People don’t want another referendum’

    Such as Lord Darling himself and his carpetbagging Yoon friends.

    Yeah, we know that, we’re more concerned about the majority of decent hard working people struggling to get by, that you played a hand in making their lives more difficult. #SelfishSellOut.

  68. Ruby says:

    I can’t see how the UK Gov would ever go for the ‘single market’ option being that it involves free movement of people.

    Would this not result in the Tories losing votes to UKIP who would campaign to end the ‘single market’ option?

    Was the whole EU Ref not all about ensuring UKIP didn’t steal Tory votes?

    I could be totally wrong because my problem re being well informed is a lack of time. I would love to spend more time reading all the links, listening to all the TV & radio broadcasts etc etc

    I reckon I am not alone and there are a lot of people with very busy lives who don’t have any time to keep themselves informed hence the reason the BBC/MSM are able to influence busy people.

  69. galamcennalath says:

    Liz g says:

    Wonder if they really think that the system they uphold will look after them?

    The same applies to many outside the Lords too. Media for instance.

    Much will happen between now and Indy. We can expect the gutter press to up their anti Scots rhetoric. After Indy will vocal English nationalists continue to accept Scots on their screens delivering news, comment, political analysis, etc.?

    More than just Lords will get their jotters.

  70. DerekM says:

    Why did the devolved leaders go all the way to London for that.

    Power play from May yes and no it was meant to be but her master plan fell to pieces as the EU refused to negotiate leaving her no promises of jam tomorrow,it was meant to be the British brexit until she figured out that it will be the EU brexit that matters and all her insane drivel plans cooked up in westmonster mean nothing.

    As PM`s go she is really inept blustering about in a web of deceit,ironically made by her own parties actions.

  71. Ruby says:

    ‘I could be totally wrong because my problem re being well informed is a lack of time.’

    I probably should also have added ‘lack of time & other factors’ ie brain power!

  72. Liz g says:

    Orri @ 8.52
    Did read somewhere ( might have been one of Nana’s links )
    A theory that the reason our renewable energy was stymied , is because we would have had a good export industry in it after Indy.
    Also as England has to import energy so they need Hinkley point even if it is the more expensive choice.
    As they want to be energy independent as soon as possible and they couldn’t take ours anymore.
    Infact they may be forced to import from us to keep the lights on,and that means not being able to play silly buggers over trade.
    Remember all this was ment to be thought of,when the EU vote was supposed to be remain.
    Which ment Indy ref 2 was not so close.
    If true that’s probably also why they are forcing Fracking in the North of England.
    I do think that after Indy Ref 1 there was indeed a move towards quietly asset striping Scotland.
    As on some level they knew Alex Salmond was right and this could only go one way.

    Macart @ 8.54
    Naw she is definitely no bluffing,just seems strange that the Media are punting that she is though.
    Can you think of what they hope to achieve?
    I would have thought that they would have been trying to kick-start/harden the No campaign by portraying an imminent threat.

  73. galamcennalath says:

    Ruby says:

    I can’t see how the UK Gov would ever go for the ‘single market’ option being that it involves free movement of people

    Neither can I.

    While it seems a sensible compromise, I just think the pressure to go harder will be too great. They have to be seen to deliver ‘tighter borders’.

    By contrast I expect the SG to accept full single market at a minimum for retaining most aspects of EU membership.

    The impasse is set already and realistically won’t go away IMO.

    This could be broken by ‘flexible Brexit’, but May won’t entertain giving Scotland anything seen as special treatment, on principle.

    May is between a Scotland wielding an EU sized rock, and a hard UKIP place.

    What matters most to her? The Union or Brexit?

    Most on here seem to agree on the Union. However, the Tories’ record on handling constitutional matters has been an utter shambles, beginning well before the Brexit vote. I really don’t believe they have the competence to get anything right now.

  74. louis.b.argyll says:

    Ruby 9.16am..Was the whole EU Ref not all about ensuring UKIP didn’t steal Tory votes?

    YES..it’s narrow, exclusive and sick, politics down-south that is.

    Peter Lilley, Thatcher’s favourite executioner, was chipping in yesterday, yuck, tory-bum-boy in chief.

  75. Thepnr says:

    @Liz g

    “Naw she is definitely no bluffing,just seems strange that the Media are punting that she is though.
    Can you think of what they hope to achieve?”

    It’s just part of the overall narrative they are implying that there is no support for a second referendum. They are implying that the SG has no mandate for a referendum. They are implying that since Brexit support for Independence has not changed and is doomed to failure anyway. That’s why Nicola is supposedly bluffing.

    I’d ignore their “implying” and simply say the’re lying.

  76. desimond says:

    Watched Autumwatch last night…they’ve set up a Mouse Maze which saw a wild mouse enter and go every which way before hitting the food jackpot. After some experiences, the mouse can zero straight in and go direct to the prize by-passing any distractions or dead-ends.

    The BBC team duly suspect they know how the mouse does it!

    So the wily BBC team turn the maze around thinking it will confuse the mouse’s homing instincts and win the day.

    I didn’t see the end but knowing the persistence and intelligence of that wee “sleakit beastie” I doubt the prize remained untouched!

    Persistence over resistance every time!

  77. Free Scotland says:

    @One_Scot at 9:15

    ‘People don’t want another referendum’

    Such as Lord Darling himself and his carpetbagging Yoon friends.

    Spot on. They keep trying to convince us that the polls haven’t moved since 2014 (when we all know that they have – in favour of ‘YES’), or that there’s no appetite for a second independence referendum (when we all know that there is). If they were really confident in their bogus claims, they wouldn’t be trying to obstruct an indyref, they would be saying “Bring it on.” What really puts the crappers up them is that they have used up all their lies and deception, and they know that we know it. They also know that – as Tuba McDougall admitted – there is no positive case for the union.

  78. Andrew McLean says:

    Ok kids in today’s lesson on comprehension in the written word, this is your homework for tonight.

    Take this recent statement from a pretend newspaper;
    “Downing Street has insisted that the Holyrood government has no mandate for a second referendum after independence was rejected in 2014”.

    Now using the skills we taught you in the last lesson read this statement from the Scottish Government.

    The manifesto that the SNP was elected on last month said this –
    “The Scottish Parliament should have the right to hold another referendum…if there is a significant and material change in the circumstances that prevailed in 2014, such as Scotland being taken out the EU against our will.”

    Now after using the deductive reasoning and comprehension skills you were taught in primary three, is the writer of the first paragraph correct in his assertion when we complete the following addition and subtraction test?
    Question one 50 – ? = 45
    Question two 62- ? = 38
    Answer. Is the number from question one greater or lesser than question two?

    The next day, back at the chalk face!

    Children please do not call Alistair “liar liar pants on fire”, remember not everyone will grow up to be Chancellor of the Exchequer!

    Now today’s lesson is state misinformation and propaganda, as you will see this corresponds to last nights homework.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2016-36084261

  79. louis.b.argyll says:

    A smarmy-barmy-army of ignorant-right- wing-fascism-lite-apologists..

    That’s how the EU negotiators will view Middle-England’s representatives.

  80. manandboy says:

    One of the problems we have with politicians, is that neither talent, nor training is required to get the job. This is rather obvious in the case of the latest UK Prime Minister, Theresa May, MP. Appointed to the post on the basis of being ‘the last candidate standing’, Theresa May is showing all the signs of a beginner, but with hints of incompetence.

    The reason behind this may lie in the fact that she is a ‘remainer’ by conviction, trying to act as if she is a ‘leaver’. And because she is finding this very difficult, she has chosen to say as little as possible about Brexit itself, but instead, is concentrating on ‘getting the best deal’ as ‘one UK’, and giving nothing away to the EU.

    Is it any wonder, that every other political leader in both Europe and the UK ‘is no further forward’ in knowing what Brexit means to the British Prime Minister.

    And what of the Brexit ‘Team’ of David Davis, Boris Johnson and Liam Fox. It is hard to believe that these three men, all chosen by Theresa May, are responsible for taking the UK out of the EU. I wouldn’t trust any of the them to take a skelf out my finger.

    Meanwhile, we are all kept waiting and wondering, almost paralysed, through knowing so little about what, if anything, is actually being done, out of sight, at 10 Downing St..

    But we should not allow ourselves to be fooled. Something IS going on – we just haven’t worked out what it is yet.

  81. Greannach says:

    Alistair Darling was pretty skillful when it came to looking after his own monney. It’s only the taxpayers’ pounds that he messed up so badly.

  82. Macart says:

    @Liz G

    They’re attempting, in their own short-termist, cack handed fashion, to ‘not frighten the horses’. May’s government NEEDS to portray the UK as a united front to the EU and the wider world as a unified, unitary state. She needs to portray the Westminster parliament as being in control and most of all that means undermining the standing of the devolved legislatures and any influence they may have on Brexit.

    The markets are already in near on panic mode, the pound has fallen off a cliff and the UKs political standing and influence internationally has taken a gawdawful kicking. So basically our gel in Downing street has launched a media offensive. She’s slapping down, telling off, laying down the law yada, yada, but in a caring ‘one nation’ kinda way.

    It’s not working and the louder they shriek, the more obvious it is to any and all. (shrugs)

    Their fuckwittery and greed is doing most of the heavy lifting. Their narrative of fear and division created a monster and now the monster can’t be controlled. It can only run its course.

  83. John Edgar says:

    Unelected, pensioned off has been in the HoL. Why does he even bother to open mouth before engaging brain?
    I suppose he thinks that the remaining solitary Labour MP in carries more voting power than the vast phalanx of SNO MPs?
    Still, illusion reigns supreme in (s)Lab. Another pop-up sound byte from a titular yoon.

  84. Andrew McLean says:

    Breaking news!
    the Scottish Parliament’s Presiding Officer Ken Macintosh has been orderd to clean the queens toilet!
    Shocking.

  85. Liz g says:

    Macart @ 9.53
    Ah so obvious now you pointed it out.
    Short-termist is right,as Thepnr said above we know they’re lying.
    So they are only makin it worse by not being honest with people.
    In fact they might just be demonstrating that Nicola is the only political leader in the UK that can be taken at her word.
    Beginning to really like this never interrupt you’re enemy’s thing.

  86. Socrates MacSporran says:

    I fear it will still be hard to win an Indyref, because of the sheer stupidity of many of my fellow Baby Boomers and Coffin Dodgers.

    I attend a fortnightly current affairs discussion class, run by our local retirement group. This class regularly attracts some 40 of us retirees, and I find myself becoming more and more frustrated at the refusal of some, even when shown hard facts (many gleaned from these columns) about how they are being lied to by the media.

    I point-out, the £15 billion “black hole” is the result of Westminster policies an governance – I am talking mince.

    I point-out how much better the NHS in Scotland is doing in comparison to NHS England – they scoff.

    I point-out, the UK is highly-unlikely to get the deal they want on immigration and trade without agreeing to th four freedoms – no, no, it’s all Europe’s fault.

    They go on about unelected European officials making decisions, I point-out, all suggestions put forward by the officials have to be agreed by the Council of Ministers – I am told I am taking mince.

    I fear, a large percentage of my coffin-dodging contemporaries are beyond help and will never change. They beieve everything the BBC tells them and in my view truly are the enemy within.

  87. Les Wilson says:

    This is all a Tory inspired mess, the UK response to Brexit (when it actually comes) is purely an English response.
    For now we can have no doubt, the rest of the devolved nations can simply GTF, It will be the responsibility of England only.

    Sound bites about listening to the other nations are just that.
    They will smile, but with deaf ears. Clearly what England wants England gets.
    There is no respect for the position of the others, no intention to take on suggestions that may help mitigate the coming financial destruction.

    They portray the other administrations as being the UK, eh? not in strictly legal terms, as there is only 2 nations that form the act of Union that brought the UK into being, Scotland and England.
    The lie of 4 nations is simply an English invention to undermine the real position and the equal status of the real Union between our 2 nations.

    So here we are, being forced to adhere to an arbitrary position of Westminster with no thought of Scotland’s position.
    They are far from stupid, but this approach serves their agenda of keeping Scotland down, continuation of their 300 year old position.
    Nothing has changed in the political needs and wants of England for all of those 300 years as far as we are concerned.

    This time though they may have really overstepped their position. Scotland is becoming more and more aware that this Union is not fit for purpose no matter what political shape it takes in Westminster. Indeed we are now reflecting as to why we never saw this previously over that long time period.

    The divergence between England and Scotland is becoming more and more. We no longer want to be a mini me, of them, and be assured if it was not that Scotland is their number one cash cow, they would not be wanting us either.

    Oh they love us, truth is they are addicted to Scotland and all it’s assets, like a junkies on crack cocaine. That is nothing like love, now are eyes are truly open, and the emperor has no clothes, and financial Armageddon is surely coming. Perhaps anarchy taking hold in England as a result.

    Yes we have the odious BBC to contend with, as with all the media outlets. Yet despite this we got to striking distance before, starting off a higher base this time, and with even more reason, our divorce may thankfully may find it’s way into the history books.

    We are a country, we have a strong economy, we have a brave outlook and have empathy with our fellow man. We have the brains and ability to form our country and create the society we want.
    LET NO ONE TELL US DIFFERENT! Let the hammer come down on this divorce, let’s make it happen.

  88. Valerie says:

    @manandboy

    I disagree with that analysis of May. I think May is a Brexiteer. Remember Cameron asked her repeatedly to declare, and she latterly came out for Remain in a low key way.

    She had her eye on the prize, just like BoJo, but set about it, in a more strategic way, by keeping out of the fight, knowing she could come out on top either way.

    There are plenty of nasty examples of her bigotry from time as Home Secretary.

    I do however agree, she is not the brightest bulb, just brighter than Boris.

    Great stupidity of media reporting Nicola is not serious, because today Scot Gov reporting they have identified 30+ differing arrangements.

  89. Robert Graham says:

    O/T good to see Ken Mackintosh being elevated to the dizzy heights of the Privy Council courtesy of SNP backing him as presiding officer , unlike Labour they some how dont hold the same spite and grievance as the red tories eh Kezzia .

  90. Valerie says:

    @Socrates

    How depressing. Kudos for trying, but not sure I could stick that class!

  91. H-H says:

    Yet another in a long, long line of statistical bafflegab from those who sook up to the sacred union pish.

  92. louis.b.argyll says:

    As I’ve said, the English need to pull up the drawbridge.

    But their chosen enemy (EU) will see the movement and encourage flight.

    So they oil the chains, move it incrementally, hoping that when they lift it proper all those inside will be trapped and accept their rule.

  93. Unfortunately there are people who will still believe what Darling spouts.

    After all, isn’t he the chancellor the Labour party unionists keep tell us saved the banks.

  94. darling has always been true to the country he was born in England so we should not be surprised by his actions he is another Defoe

  95. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Valerie – I enjoy getting up their noses, spoiling their neat wee UKOK view of the world. I have made one or two conversions.

    Sometimes, it is hard going, but, having spent my life getting up people’s noses as a journalist – I enjoy continuing to do this.

    Best laugh I think was the old guy who was going-on about how undemocratic the Holyrood parliament was, with all these unelected list MSPs.

    Eventually, however, he got it, that, for all its faults, because of how the list MPs reflected the actual percentages of votes cast, Holyrood was actually more-democratic than the FPTP plus unelected Lords Westminster.

  96. louis.b.argyll says:

    If we cannot get our freedom..100 years from now, history will judge England as corrupt… Unless you’re still living here, where the Tory winners will have deleted Scotland completely.

  97. galamcennalath says:

    Derek Bateman on Mundell and the Tory lack of mandate …

    http://derekbateman.scot/2016/10/25/tea-and-two-sugars-dave/

  98. heraldnomore says:

    Remember the EdStone? Well the EC did, and Labour didn’t – £20k fine…

  99. Ken500 says:

    London ‘journalists’ are so misinformed about Scottish politics. They just talk nonsense.

    Scotland raised the same £54Billion. Same as with Oil revenues. The rest of the UK raised £42Billion (pro rata). They borrow to make up the difference and Scotland has to pay the debt repayments. Taking nearly £4Billion from Scotland.

    The lie Scotland has no Oil revenues. Westminster was taxing the Gas & Oil sector at 60% to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Ignorance and incompetence or deliberate. The Gas sector is taxed at 40%. Untaxed fracked Gas is being imported from the US.

    Older people can be informed to YES. Support for Independence is increasing. The only way is up. Mundell gives the pensioners a good reason for Independence. Increased pensions in Scotland.

    Labour fined for electoral fraud. Undeclared expenses. What about the Tories? Committed electoral fraud in 31 constituencies. Westminster Tories are not legitimate Gov.

  100. galamcennalath says:

    England voted to leave the EU. Their decision. They have to live with the consequences.

    It was made clear IF they voted to leave the EU that almost certainly meant a vote to dissolve the UK too. This is the consequence England is having big problems coming to terms with.

    They have killed off the Union.

    Their reaction is much like grief. The first stage is denial, the second anger. That is what we observe.

  101. One_Scot says:

    I don’t know if it’s just me, but when I now have the misfortune of accidentally reading a foaming mouths Yoon tweet, my eyes just roll over and I think, #LivingInDenial

  102. cearc says:

    Socrates,

    On ‘unelected officials’. Ask them how many Permanent Secretaries of UK government departments they can name. Did they vote for them?

  103. Dan Huil says:

    Darling is a disgusting little creature. The personification of blootered britnuttery.

  104. BruceScott says:

    This is a man that not only bankrupted the union , he also did the same whilst a counciler in Edinburgh Fact.

  105. Fred says:

    I think he might well be a lizard Dan!

  106. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I don’t know the figures, but the Independence referendum allowed people who were not allowed to vote in the EU referendum to vote. It’s quite possible that if the people eligible to vote in both were compared a higher proportion would have voted to remain in the UK than in the EU.”

    Since the people excluded from the EU referendum were chiefly EU nationals who’d have been voting against their own right to live here if they’d voted Leave, I think we can make a pretty safe assumption that if they’d had the vote then the Remain tally in Scotland would have been significantly higher than 62%, not lower.

  107. Jethro says:

    Indeed, it is patently obvious that

    “Since the people excluded from the EU referendum were chiefly EU nationals who’d have been voting against their own right to live here if they’d voted Leave, I think we can make a pretty safe assumption that if they’d had the vote then the Remain tally in Scotland would have been significantly higher than 62%, not lower.”

    Just as significant is the fact that by simple mathematics, their votes could well have changed the Leave vote in England into a Remain one, since the Leave majority was 1.7 million and there are at a conservative estimate over 2.5 million disenfranchised EU citizens resident in the UK. Now if David Cameron had just accepted the SNP’s proposal to give them the vote, as had been done in the Scottish Independence referendum, he might still be Prime Minister and the UK might not be heading down the plughole.



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