And there you have it at last. The positive case for the Union.
So the police are thinking the worms may turn? Smell the fear!
Another thing to make your heart swell with britishnes! The UK government is building the largest scate park in the world, with nice ocean views and only mildly radioactive, welcome to the dalgety bay solution! Hay it’s not like it’s near any Important population centres, well important to London anyway!
Maybe what we’ve learned is that he plans to sort Benefits Street by water cannon?
Which country are they talking about?
Which vision of the future would you rather have?
I would like to try a fairer society. One in which position is attained through ability not birth. One that is not based on greed and selfishness.
We may not get there in one step but on the othe hand we have no chance of getting such a system with the elite and their sychophants running the show as at present.
What comes after water cannons…?
Rubber bullets next?
Is that why DC wanted asked for VP’s help?
The fact that the police in England are even considering using water cannon fills me with a desire to start digging that trench!
@David MacGille-Mhuire. Not rubber bullets,real ones. They have a history of shooting unarmed men. Menendez,Harry Stanley etc.
I’m wondering come the summer when there’s a hosepipe ban in England will water cannon be an option? Rubber bullets may therefore be introduced mainly on the grounds of water conservation (of course). Imgaine the DT headlines:
Police forced to waste water on feckless poor. “Riotin’s the only way we can get a decent shower, guv’nor” says one layabout.
For nostalgic Thatcherites like IDS 1980s style riots are a sign of ‘greatness’. All we need is a boom in London & the SE, endless Royalty bollox, fawning over the City, foreign wars, growing inequality and a toothless Labour party to complete the Thatcher tribute decade.
Oh shit, picture complete; thank Christ we have an escape route this time.
Well, it makes sense.
Last time one of the constituants of the UK wanted to leave they used water cannons.
I’m just glad they haven’t started using normal cannons on us yet. When was it they did that in Glasgow again?
David Cameron kept going on about ‘hard-working people’ in his broadcast last night. That phrase always grated on me even when Broon said it, but actually I think it’s part of the strategy to demonise the poor and the unemployed.
In other words, if you’re not ‘hard-working’ you’re a dead-beat layabout that’s scrounging off the state. I’m sure that there must be DKs or Noes out there that are thinking ‘do I really want to be part of this?’ and wondering what an independent Scotland would be like instead.
Boris Johnson is fully supportive of the Met’s request for Water Cannon.
“may need permission to deploy….” Does this mean that the police forces already possess these items, and only require a signature to get them on the streets? Is this really 21st century Britain?
Get us out of here, Mr. Salmond!
The right wing UK Gov have been emboldened by their apparent economic success, as they see it, over the last couple of weeks. Britain will get worse than this.
The benefits fuhrer IDS attempts to divert attention away from the complete and utter failure of every single one of his flagship welfare reform policies. He scrapes the bottom of the barrel by invoking a tv programme rather than actual hard facts based on his own government’s statistics.
Austerity hasn’t really got going yet. Lots to come in order to have permanently “small government”.
The thing is, when you have permanently “small government”, an economy heavily reliant on global financial markets, the concentration of wealth held by so few, and consumer spending primarily driven by inflated house valuations, what happens in the next economic downturn / recession? What exactly do you cut?
What happens when younger people realise they will struggle to get decent jobs, will work till they are 70+ and face a means tested pension? Personal savings will be a rare luxury.
I personally think they will need more than water cannons.
I often debate with people at work, the biggest feed back of DK or No’es is insecurity, when I point out that virtually all Scottish media is run out of London and that they really want us to be insecure and too feart, it gets a reaction of sudden realisation!
The decision to buy the eater cannons has not yet been taken according to the Independent but BoJo wants them available for the Summer. There are 6 underused water cannons in N Ireland which could be shipped over at short notice if approved, I suppose.
Government concerns about industrial militancy and revolutionary political activity in Glasgow reached new heights after the events of 31 January 1919. Fears within government of a workers’ revolution in Glasgow led to the deployment of troops and tanks in the city.
An estimated 10000 English troops in total were sent to Glasgow in the immediate aftermath of the Battle of George Square. This was in spite of a full battalion of Scottish soldiers being stationed at Maryhill barracks in Glasgow at the time. No Scottish troops were deployed, with the government fearing that fellow Scots, soldiers or otherwise, would go over to the workers side if a revolutionary situation developed in Glasgow.
On 10 February 1919 the 40-hours strike was called off by the Joint Strike Committee. Whilst not achieving their stated aim of a 40-hour working week, the striking workers from the engineering and shipbuilding industries did return to work having at least negotiated an agreement that guaranteed them a 47-hour working week; 10 hours less than they were working prior to the strike.”
They were using the real McCoy as a threat against the people. Should a similar situation occur ,I would like to think that Scottish troops would defy orders and side with the people.
“I personally think they will need more than water cannons.”
Isn’t that the intention? Since they’re acting in a way that is obviously intended to spark riots.
Look guys. Anyone can see that this is the new UKOK govt industrial policy. A giant job creation scheme. Piss off the poor and give some of them jobs building water cannon. Simples!
o/t sorry rev, NNS Bateman finally gets it..
The more I think about it, it is also encouraging the feckless work shy to get exercise. A bit like these zombie games that clutter the streets. Poor people can run around being chased by water cannon. Get their daily exercise even if they are hungry. Fantastic. We can even foresee theme nights. Not for us dressing as Nazis on Tory run stag parties. No – shred some clothes a few beers and join the local riot night with the poor.
Typical Tories blame the poor for being poor. I think today will be a test to see what the people are thinking If labour win the Cowdenbeath by election with a thumping majority then the Yes message just isn’t getting through.We have to see a swing towards the SNP surely after all the Labour lies.
The riots would have made the water cannon useless. The deployment of cannon is dependant upon the rioters staying to confront the police long enough for the water cannon to br deployed. The riots in England showed the police were unable to keep up with the rapid speed of the rioters whose main aim was to destroy and loot not fight the police. So another waste of mnoney to pander to the right wing dinosaurs out there. I’m so glad we’re getting out of this sorry excuse of a union.
Never mind the Telegraph what’s going on at the Record? Another full page puff for the SNP today.
BBC Scotland can’t afford a water cannon. This has Jim Murphy worried.
Scottish Daily Mail
23 Jan 2014
Keep web trolls off TV, says MP
FORMER Scottish Secretary Jim Murphy has warned that abuse from ‘cybernats’ could spread into TV debates and public meetings unless there is urgent action.
The Labour MP, who is set to become heavily involved in the campaign against independence, is the latest politician to call on Alex Salmond to help tackle the online trolls.
Mr Murphy said that without a personal condemnation from the First Minister, the army of proindependence supporters could start targeting public events – causing more misery for victims.
‘There is a real worry that these anonymous cybernats who hide behind the safety of their computer keyboards in their bedrooms will come out into the public as the referendum comes closer*,’ Mr Murphy said. ‘The last thing we need is their personal abuse and vindictive insults thrown around in public meetings or TV studio audiences.
It’s already happpening, Jim. I spotted a good few anonymous cybernats in the audience on Tuesday’s Referendum Debate. Here’s a screengrab.
member state debate scottish parliament tv, now comm room 6
“Rubber bullets may therefore be introduced mainly on the grounds of water conservation”
Don’t be stupid, there’s plenty of water in Wales and Scotland and it’s about time all those subsidy junkies contributed something for the Empire and Grate Britain.
Looks like we may need those border controls after all. If this is the way forward for GB then we will have two very different societies.
And the MSM will massage both into reality post haste.
So what’s it going to be, people:
Wings over Scotland?
or Water Cannon over Benefits Street?
I know it’s a difficult choice – take your time!
A UKOK solution to austerity rioters (aka UK citizens) would be to build more prisons:
1. Capital investment and constructions jobs
2. Once imprisoned, the austerity rioters would come out of the unemployment figures.
3. Prisoners can’t vote.
4. Introduce a radical re-education program for all austerity prisoners.
Re Loyalty of Scottish Soldiers,I was told recently by a serving soldier (Not in a Scots regiment) that they Scots Regiments are the most Patriotic (To Scotland) he has ever seen.
This serving soldier a dk thinks that most squaddies in the Scots Regiments would be YES voters.
I say he is a dk however he did ask to use my computer to check out Wings.
The implications are obvious, they fear the poor rebelling and are taking steps to nullify them. This is UK 2014, what will it be like when all their measures really bite in?
There certainly could be riots in the streets and I mean across the UK. IDS may look back in his memoirs that he did not take the sensible approach, it may well be the biggest regret Westminster will have as they watch the whole of the UK fall to pieces.
O/T moneyweek.com has it’s rant against Scottish land reform.
I wonder where this Unionist campaign of demonising, and trying to marginalise and silence, perfectly law-abiding citizens engaged in peaceful political activity in a liberal democracy will end?
“I wonder where this Unionist campaign of demonising, and trying to marginalise and silence, perfectly law-abiding citizens engaged in peaceful political activity in a liberal democracy will end?”
Its going to end? I thought their plan was for it to go on forever?
Sorry for quick second post, there is another consequence of this, which is that under such conditions, I would not at all be surprised if other areas of England, particularly the North would want to join to a free and fairer Scotland in a couple of years from now.
It could also lead to the much vaunted, London state, which in the way of things may be their end game.
If these things are ever deployed in Scotland or Wales you would know without doubt that they’re a threat against gathering and nothing else.
Why? Because there’s no recent history of civil unrest, rioting, or anything similar in Scotland or Wales, and there is no need for them.
Pity England, because it’ll be used as a threat there too, but the riots of a couple of years back give the police and the government all the excuses they need to deploy them.
IDS will indeed stop benefits street Britain. Can’t have benefits street without any benefits. Now, an admission; I have always shared his view that work should pay more than benefits. Where I am more than pleased to say we differ is that his method and my method are not the same. I want to see work pay more to achieve this, not benefits pay less.
He does not care who he kicks on the way past, because he never goes far enough down from his own wealth level to see how bad it gets. Or more to the point, if he does, he ignores it.
This is all looking very manufactured, in fact very likely enticing and encouraging rioting. They need something to take people’s minds off this referendum shenanigans, anything will do, divide n rule is their default measure, give the people something else to entertain themselves with on telly! Laugh at the stupid lazy poor folk, it’s their own fault, makes them feel good you see.
It seems ironic that the uprisings in Kiev are happening because the people want to be part of Europe. It is terrible that people are dying there.
I believe there have been cuts to the Fire Brigade service in London in recent months. Funny they can find the money for water cannon though. Maybe when London’s burning they can be redeployed.
The Police in England and Wales are, again, pressing the Home Secretary to approve this measure to deal with protests resulting from austerity cuts. And Kevin McKenna has the cheek to denounce Scotland as a police state since 2007.
Jingly jangly – disagree about soldiers in Scottish Regts – remember Ibrox? They may be very patriotic when in dress uniform with kilts, trews, bagpipes, Scottish marching tunes et al. In my opinion like those “proud Scot” politicians we all know of their patriotism extends as far as a wee bit of dressing up. Hope I’m wrong but experience of brain washing in the armed forces indicates otherwise!
“Hi, is that Channel 4? Yeah hi, it’s Iain Duncan Smith here. Listen, I need some help from you guys. I’m trying to push through some really unpopular reforms to the benefits system, and unfortunately it looks like the people who are trying to claim that these reforms are somehow bringing us back towards the Victorian poor laws are starting to gain some traction. I was wondering if you could put on some show called, oh I dunno, “Benefit Claimants are subhuman scum who deserve to die, and most of them are paedos anyway” or something, so that we can turn the population back against people who have to live off £70 per week, and get them ready for when I reintroduce workhouses after the next election. Oh, you’re up for it? Oh excellent, I never thought you’d agree so quickly – I thought it was only the BBC that did what we tell them to without any pushback. Well, anyway, nice speaking to you. Oh and before I go, don’t forget, you’re partly funded by the license fee, and we control that. BYEEEEEE!!!!!”
Have the BBC applied for the powers to waterboard academics yet?
To keep the UKOK “safe”, the plan would be to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights.
Waterboarding can then proceed post haste.
@ Bugger the Panda
There are 6 underused water cannons in N Ireland which could be shipped over at short notice if approved
That comment reminded me of how N Ireland was used as a handy threat against the so-called Parcel o’ Rogues in 1706.
In the event that the Scots rioted in order to stop the Parcel o’ Rogues agreeing to the Treaty of Union, five regiments, three of horse, one of foot and one of dragoons were stationed in N Ireland and stood ready to invade at short notice (three regiments of foot and 800 horse also stood ready at the border).
“I would not at all be surprised if other areas of England, particularly the North would want to join to a free and fairer Scotland in a couple of years from now.”
People keep saying this. I really think that the SNP should be running in thenorth of England, on the local manifesto of extending Scotlands borders and seeking an amicable movement of the border.
It’s not like London wants the north of England anyway, and we’re a peaceful folk, it’s not like we’d force them to accept our government if they wanted to be under their own, would we?
If Jim Murphy is worried about on line comments, he should come out from behind TV interviews and newspaper columns and face the public.
However he is not concerned really, as we all know.
Of course there is the word alert, ‘could’, meaning it won’t.
How much poorer our understanding of our Governments activities would have been if that cybernat, Edward Snowden, hadn’t been sitting behind his computer and thinking about what he was seeing in the data. Cybernat is appropriate as he was trying to protect ordinary people of the US, his fellow citizens.
But I suppose as Jim Murphy inhabits the cosy world of, absolutely no personal responsibility for anything he says or does, politics then any comment against him must be an emotional blow.
The reality is that the greatest danger is from the irresponsible, politically motivated comments from gormless, low grade, dimwitted buffoons like him, that will stoke the actions of the eager and looking for an excuse to cause trouble morons on the Unionist side.
And Jim, Brian Powell is my real name and I live in St Andrews; you can look me up and I’ll debate the paragraph above with you anytime you want.
Can you imagine what would have happened if the Scottish people had known the true fatality figures for Scots troops in World War 1? The riots in 1919 would, I think, have been just the beginning. No doubt leading to independence within a few years.
That’s the British state’s main weapon. Keep the people ignorant.
I was a unionist (Labour) until I joined the Armed Services in 1972, Whilst serving in England the institutional racism against Scots led me to reconsider my political viewpoint.
I was just saying what a serving Soldier told me. Not all Squaddies are Rangers fans and I know a fair few Rangers fans who will be voting YES. In fact one Rangers Fan I know hates the Royal Family – go figure!!!!
John H says.
That’s the British state’s main weapon. Keep the people ignorant.
The UK gov keeping the people ignorant, keeping the poor poor, and making sure the comfortably off despise anyone who has to depend on the meagre hand outs for being sick, disabled or simply unemployed. No wonder they are expecting riots, people will get really angry sooner or later.
O/T,I have vision,s of the FM,dressed in a long white robe, long gray hair,& long gray beard,wearing Jesus sandel,s,& a bloody big SYTHE over the shoulder,because he cut a swathe in debate today JoLo,Ruthie,Wee Wullie goat aff light, (adult,s have alway,s use underage children in criminal act,s, Drug dealing, House breaking)some research required Wullie. Keep swinging Alex,yer dain a grand job.
Jim Murphys comments…anyone remember the late Lewis Collins SAS movie “Who Dares Wins”…at a rally, trouble breaks out when Govt planted usurpers start shouting abuse pretending to be from the other side. I fear this could be a tactic soon employed by the NO campaign.
Regards water cannons and riots…I was in London during Poll Tax Riot day, why dont we Scots ever riot…we just too darn polite, is it just too cauld?
Water cannon,s, am up fur some o that, jist make the watter a wee bit hotter,provide the soap,n shampoo,an we dirty Scot,s that have to watch or heating bill,s, will get a hot shower,in you need tae provide car shampoo tae, Clean people,Clean Car,s,& anither benifit,Clean Street,s.( ah alway,s envy,ed the American,s that get their street,s swept,n washed)an inither thing, the cully,s get a cleanout tae.The gift that keep,s on giveing.Sorry lad,s n lasses the temptation,s to much,AM ON THE EDGE THE EDGE OF REASON,whit,s that yer providing,BLAW DRYER STALL,s,WI REAL HOT AIR,Ah hiv jist went over,cancell ma subscription tae YES.
The ‘Cringe’ is a bit like a Swiss army knife, it has lots of applications.
As i sit here further thinking on my “Why dont Scots ever riot?”..iI came to the conclusion is was because we are clever enough to see that the real source of the problems is not here at home but 400 miles away…but that then just made me feel worse remembering that even with that realisation, some folk still prefer to vote NO and keep such a dire situation!
From 2012. Brilliant Downfall spoof of IDS, parodying the use of such social media (in this case disabled activists such as the Spartacus Report campaigners referred to in the video) to puncture his repulsive propaganda attacking the human rights of disabled people and other vulnerable groups in society. Just like WOS, quality grassroots activism at its best – Ian Duncan Smith – ATOS Downfall Parody
I think they are possibly getting the water cannons ready for when they help themselves to our money we think is safe in our bank accounts. They will need them. Sorry, worst case scenario but very possible.
Desimond it happened during the poll tax demo’s and the major one in London became a riot instigated by Government agents who once the riot had been started then went and hid in the South African Embassy also on the same day the police took the cameras of the channel 4 news team and smashed them . Channel 4 did a documentary about it called the battle of Trafalgar.
The really nasty thing about water cannons is that it isn’t just water that they can shoot out. The water can be mixed with indelible dye thus making it much easier for the authorities to go around picking up the trouble makers and taking them into custody.
Fancy getting drenched in red or blue dye that doesn’t wash out for days? Well it’s coming to a riot near you.
I wont be surprised if some heckling is deemed “over the top” on Question Time from Dundee tonight for starters before they really ramp things up.
Just hope they dont dare try it at the Wings Glasgow Get-Together.
@RoughBound,s,that,s the down side,getting spryed with Smart Water, The up side is they,ll be buying Scottish water,(in creased cost,s fur Spring water ) lol
O/T Apologies if this has already been posted. Alex Salmond in conversation with James Naughtie, filmed last night at Mitchell Libray. (Naughtie with the usual questions and that barely hidden patronising, smeary tone…sigh…). It’s on the Herald site, couldn’t find it on any other site.
Jingly jangly – there was no need for your “go figure” remark. Like you I was expressing an opinion and was not having a “go” at Rangers or their fans just pointing out that hundreds of Scots soldiers turned up there a few months ago. I couldn’t care less about any football club frankly except for the division they tend to cause in Scotland. Off to Rosyth now to the polling station at Kings Road school. Doing something positive!
Scottish-UK government joint pre-referendum negotiations clearly have been going well then.
Joint statement must be very soon now. All agreements on currency, EU, citizenship etc nicely clarified ahead of the vote.
Could never be any other way.
Crap – posted that on the wrong thread.
Rough Bounds says
“Fancy getting drenched in red or blue dye that doesn’t wash out for days? Well it’s coming to a riot near you.”
I wouldn’t put it past them to put white dye in a third cannon and paint you up with the butchers apron.
Comment - new users please read this page first for commenting rules. HTML tags like <i> and <b> are permitted. Use the live preview box.