Low-fibre diet
Posted on
September 15, 2013 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
David Cameron, 6 May 2011:
David Cameron, 15 September 2013:
If those are all the Prime Minister’s fibres, we advise some Bran Flakes.
No, “together” the South East of England has achieved so much.
What must the No camp think? He’s barely even trying.
It has even more of an impact when seen as a double page spread, with Salmond and a full page of positive visions for independence opposite.
He’s not the head of their campaign and probably better he spends his time running the country. Alex Salmond on the other hand doesn’t have much to do other than campaign.
If he’d said more he’d have been condemned by us for interfering not really sure this a story.
David Cameron had more to say in a Friday press release about a fashion charity based in London than about Scotland remaining in the union.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fashion-charity-smart-works-wins-big-society-award
I count about 140 words in this press release.
Scott
As Alex SAlmond said this afternoon Cameron is the organ grinder.
David Cameron is the leader of the UK using the full resources of the UK Civil Service to attack Scottish aspirations. Alex Salmond is the leader of Scotland. Although neither have an official role in the YES Scotland or NO Scotland campaigns, as the best known leaders they should debate.
It is nonsense for Cameron to claim its up to Scots as an excuse when his Tory friends south of Hadrian’s Wall are bankrolling the NO Scotland campaign.
Alistair Darling as the Tory human shield for the NO Scotland campaign is running scared of debating with Dennis Canavan who is vice chair of YES Scotland.
David Mundell as UK Governor General should debate with Nicola Sturgeonand His deputy Michael Moore with Patrick Hardie These four debates will give everyone a fair chance to put their respective visions before the voters.
“Together we’ve achieved so much”
He could have said, and probably has said, these exact same words about America, no matter what the “achievements” might be and how people feel about them.
But America did what Scotland is going to do and went for independence. And they they still ‘achieve’ things together.
Scott, by definition then is it just the current UK that you consider to be the ‘country’, and furthermore if he is responsible for the UK then is it not logical he *should* have a roll in preventing its break-up?
i’m sorry, but in my view your contribution makes no sense whatsoever.
I couldn’t resist it: David Cameron on Scottish Independence.
I think Cameron will play a bigger role in 2014 as he will not want to go down as the PM who broke up the UK. Also, the Tories bank rolling better together will become increasingly alarmed at their money going down the toilet.
The only laudable thing the union has ever accomplished is the welfare state and its currently being dismantled by his bloody Government.
i wouldnt underestimate david cameron, he made it to prime minister after all. i would take salmond any day
Hilarious. Actually, when I saw the image I thought his piece was spread over two columns, at the beginning and the end, until I zoomed in and read that the end piece was the Herald, uncharacteristically, sticking a knife in about his pathetic paltry contribution.
Not sure he really cares that much about being the PM on whose watch the UK lost Scotland.
Did he buy that from the ACME Political Statments Store? It’s just meaningless boiler plate fluff.
Sunday Herald back in my good books.
I imagine the Downing Street press cuttings bods won’t be putting this one up to DC…
And the press officer will be keeping a low profile for a day or two.
“Independence is baaad, mm-kay?”
@kininvie
Rather than just looking at the pictures, I actually then read what the Herald thought of Cameron’s contribution and why they’d presented it that way. Class.
Gardham not working today then?
I read the page also and I will say that the Herald was fair.
The Sunday Herald is back to “worth buying” today as it has articles from Neil Ascherson, Robin McAlpine, James Maxwell and, of course, the usual good articles from Ian Bell and MacWhirter.
Steve Vass’s one in the business community is pish though. And the interview with Blair Jenkins ends on a bit of a needlessly sour note. But then it has a picture of Darling that looks like a mugshot across from it…
I have some sympathy for the guy.
He’s sitting with a pen and paper thinking “Why shouldn’t they choose independence?” …
So it is true…..there are no words!!
Roddy Macdonald says:
Inspired !
Cameron is caught between a rock and a hard place over this.
Perhaps Cameron thought it was for twitter.
I think that photo in the Sunday Herald says a lot about Cameron’s real feelings on keeping Scotland as part of the British state. He is not even attempting to disguise his indifference. The way he has done it is actually quite intelligent. He is basically saying that he will recite all the usual cliches, but his heart is not in it. Anybody with any sense will know that he does not care. This puts SLAB in a massive quandry. If they say anything publicly about Cameron’s ‘contribution’ then it will be glaringly obvious that BT is fundamemtally split. If they don’t say anything then the resentment will just build and build within SLAB. I think it is becoming very difficult to argue with Scottish Skier’s theory about the motives of leading Tories at Westminister. The apparent ease with which the Edinburgh Argeement was negotiated is looking more and more significant.
the double spread in the herald is the funniest thing since Lamont last spoke at fmq.
The Panelbase poll also had the voting intentions for Holyrood:
Today’s Panelbase results are shown below, with the change on 2011 result in brackets
Constituency:
SNP 45% (nc)
Lab 32% (nc)
Con 12% (-2)
LD 5% (-3)
List:
SNP 46% (+2)
Lab 28% (+2)
Con 12%(-1)
Green 6% (+2)
Lib 4% (-2)
so the negative press coverage recently whipped up by the MSM didn’t work. Frustration at the BT and MSM HQ’s methinks.
Obviously, as he thinks it’s already in the bag (‘cos Alistair told him so), there’s no need to take time out of his busy schedule for the Jocks up in Jockland. He can spend more time with his ongoing argument with Barosso about when he’s going to leave the EU.
When seen opposite AS’s submission, it makes him look like the prat he undoubtedly is.
… On the positive side, I can spot only 3 typos and no extraneous apostrophes! which is better than can normally be expected these days…
😉
I can’t decide if it’s that Cameron gets his ‘news’ about us Jocks from what he reads in the press i.e. the polls from YouGov that have the gap at a huge amount, so he just thinks that a No Scotland vote is in the bag. The other option is that he has been told by his advisers that the ‘best’ thing the Tories can do is to say as few words as possible so No Scotland can make it look like Labour vs SNP.
As I said in the other thread, I was writing for a newspaper last night. I’d been asked for 250 words or so in relation to a council by-election. Not the most gripping of topics, but I ended up 30 words over.
That abbreviated paragraph, containing nothing but the most banal of platitudes, speaks volumes. It speaks of someone squeezing out words with extreme difficulty on a subject they’re not passionate about, and really haven’t given much thought to. Someone laboriously completing a chore they’ve been given, when they simply don’t have anything to say.
Did Cameron write it himself, or did he shove the job on to a teenage intern? It doesn’t really make much difference. I’m gobsmacked and elated in one.
It may be 130 words, but there’s a fair bit of repetition and padding-out in there. It’s only about 69 words.
O/T Rev.
But mea culpa.
Made a bit of an arse of myself at the 4th post, saying it was Tether on the ‘What if you were a party.’ item.
Swinson. Swinson.Swinson.
But, seriously, if any of youse have’nt watched her speech on the i-player, have a gander, where she introduces the delegates to Glasgooow. Where you might encounter a native bletherin, or havin a bit of a stuchie, or gaun oot on a dreich day with a deep-fried Mars bar and a fish supper in their haun.
Talk about f**** condescending, all delivered in a sooper Kelvinside accent. Another reason, etc.
@Morag
That abbreviated paragraph, containing nothing but the most banal of platitudes, speaks volumes. It speaks of someone squeezing out words with extreme difficulty on a subject they’re not passionate about, and really haven’t given much thought to. Someone laboriously completing a chore they’ve been given, when they simply don’t have anything to say.
Yes, I agree. It is like when you were at high school (or primary school for that matter!), and you had to do homework on some topic you found tedious beyond extreme. The night before you try and motivate yourself to come up with literally anything, and you somehow eventually come up with something that is completely half arsed, and as unconvincing as possible. That is what it looks like to me. Yet Cameron is British PM, and this is his article urging voters in Scotland to vote No…
Been reading a few articles and comments on both Camerons “article” and his refusal to debate with Salmond. Whist I agree, up to a point, that Cameron could be in a no win situation with debating with Salmond, I am afraid that “not debating the issues with Salmond” appears to me as Cameron does not believe the issue to be of sufficient importance for him to bother much about. This when coupled with his “article of blank space” merely confirms this.
So, we have a Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland who couldn’t really give a toss if one party to this Union decides to end its political association with that Union? Cameron is either a certified idiot or he really doesnt give a shit. Either way, the Scottish electorate deserve better than this.
O/T and ref the Rev’s The Silenced Socialists post about the Royal Mail sell-off, just heard AS in a snippet on the news asking for a moratorium on said sell-off until after the referendum. Excellent, been waiting on that one!
Dont even have to read the content, A glance tells the bigger story.
It will make the reader spend more time on one (AS) then think WTF with the OTher (DC)
Weather forecast holding up for Edinburgh next Saturday. Youse may need blocker in the morning or wide brimmed hats but it looks like wellies and umbrellas will not be needed. That guy Odin on the Vikings is looking after us again!
Marciasays: On Poll figs hadn’t seen that Marcia cheers very encouraging
I genuinely believe Cameron would like it all to stay the same for the UK with little fuss, but can also see the case for getting rid of the ‘disgruntled’ North. If he loses the vote he will get flak but he can blame inept ‘Scots Tories & Usless Labour’ for the loss and his Tories will stay in power on wave of rUK Nationalism for ages, unless an unlikely socialist political revolution occurs (such as backlash against London effect); but that would need a socialist party and there isn’t one so then he still wins really anyway.
The old ‘Dust yourself down and move on’ routine. He’ll put up the good fight, say the right words & use the secret service etc, but at the end of the day, think he will be quite happy to wash his hands of us if the circumstances are right.
O/T
Labour getting a right kicking from GA Ponsonby over on NNS; nice read gives you a warm feeling mixed with humour.
Have to agree with the comment above about the alacrity with which Cameron signed off on the Edinburgh Agreement.How many people think Labour would have done this ? People like Foulkes must have been frothing at the mouth when it happened.The Tories will want to maintain a reasonable relationship with a future Scottish government but Labour’s Scottish contingent will be a very different matter.
It would always be thus – the ONLY people who are going to lose out with Scottish freedom is “Scottish” labour. There’s an army of seat fillers sitting in councils around the country, in Holyrood and down in Westminster in both houses who are bricking themselves at the thought of losing the easy job and a gold plated pension. Mini-empires of cosy deals and nepotism are at risk and they will fight tooth and nail to keep us all under their thumbs…
I say F’k em. If they served the people rather than themselves they would not be in this position…
I’m pretty sure that not only has Cameron written off Scotland politically – so has Milliband… This will become more and more clear as the months progress…
@gordoz
I genuinely believe Cameron would like it all to stay the same for the UK with little fuss, but can also see the case for getting rid of the ‘disgruntled’ North. If he loses the vote he will get flak but he can blame inept ‘Scots Tories & Usless Labour’ for the loss and his Tories will stay in power on wave of rUK Nationalism for ages, unless an unlikely socialist political revolution occurs (such as backlash against London effect); but that would need a socialist party and there isn’t one so then he still wins really anyway.
The question is who would blame Cameron for the loss of Scotland? I can’t see his own backbenchers caring, given that they seem to think Scotland is getting too much public spending as it is. Would the media blame him? Again, maybe some would, but how long would they really be angry? Also, it appears many people think Scotland is subsidised down south. Looking at it from a progressive political point of view maybe it would force left wingers in England to decide whether to keep on supporting Labour, or whether to support a new more progressive party.
Unique union of nations indeed, but not in a good way.
Together weve achieved so much, meaning by using Scotlands assests and sons in imperial wars over generations, London has grown rich.
What with the Tories apparently just letting Scotland go and Labour flailing about trying to hit the SNP but just giving themselves black-eyes, these are interesting times.
Excellent article on Labour’s unhealthy (for both) relationship with the Scottish media on Newsnet, by the way.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-opinion/8024-the-media-is-to-blame-for-the-state-of-scottish-labour
“Now is not the time” is the do-nothing companion argument to “We can’t sit back and do nothing” currently being used to justify attacking Syria. Both arguments are used by those who have no arguments.
Scott McColl, independence will remove 10% of the uk population and 33% of its landmass. Taking control of oil removes 2-4% of GDP nevermind what food, tourism and energy takes away.
If the UK prime minister isn’t interested in that, he shouldn’t be in the job.
Maybe Cameron meant his moral fibre? It probably is a reflection of that!
I could never reconcile DC appearing to want to preserve the union whilst simultaneously seeming to not give a toss but I’ve had an epiphany – getting shot of those troublesome jocks will guarantee Tory rule forever and another bit of the empire going doesn’t matter since apparently rUK are still delusional that imperialism remains intact regardless of evidence to the contrary.
It really goes against all rules of nature but go on, make a Tory happy next year and vote YES!
Cameron is either a certified idiot or he really doesnt give a shit.
Could it be both?
@Red squirrel ???????
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUN27GoCIAI0UST.jpg
@John Lyons
Scott McColl, independence will remove 10% of the uk population and 33% of its landmass. Taking control of oil removes 2-4% of GDP nevermind what food, tourism and energy takes away.
If the UK prime minister isn’t interested in that, he shouldn’t be in the job.
What use is it of Scotland having 10% of the UK population if hardly anybody (relatively speaking) here votes for the Tories? Also, if we vote Yes then it is the perfect pretext to scrap Trident, and save money. The Americans have been telling Cameron and co that they can then spend more money on having a bigger army. They have also had a good run of it in terms of revenues from oil as well, and they would still be able to claim around 10% of the oil and gas. The Tories would also save sending the annual block grant to Scotland as well (around £25-30 billion), and no more +40 SLAB MPs from Scotland.
He musta thought it was a BBC HYS!
I can only think of three things when I read Cameron’s defence of the union. Either he knows already that Scotland will remain part of the union (by fair means or foul) and the referendum is a just a side-show, so there isn’t anything to get bothered about; or, he knows that Scotland will be leaving, the deal is done with AS, and the break up of the UK as it stands will be inevitable, so why bother; or, he is trying to play it cool but in reality he is an absolute clueless twat who is being informed solely by Better Together’s spun reports.
It still doesn’t make much sense though, Scotland leaving the UK could have severe economic ramifications for the rUK, Cameron must know this. He must be weighing up the pros and cons of Scottish independence. One thing’s for sure is that there is a shared desire by both the SNP and Conservatives for the destruction of the Labour Party. Yet, he will be known as the last PM of the UK, the one that lost Scotland. How would that affect his party’s chances of retaining power at the GE 2015? Then there is the Trident problem.
The only thing I can see in this fog is for Scotland to be given a guaranteed offer of Devo-Max to keep the UK together in some shape or form, played up as a constitutional crisis that overrides any call for a UK-wide referendum, then perhaps as an antidote Devo-Max will then be implemented across the UK to shape a new union.
But if the majority votes YES anyway… 🙂
Yes we do have a unique union of nations, so unique that no other buggers in the whole world has ever wanted to emulate it. I wonder why..
If David Cameron lectures on sodomy in English public schools, I’ll take his word on it. Apart from that I can’t think of anything he has to say will be informative to the vast majority of Scots.
@cynicalhighlander
No campaign can’t even be bothered to write a decent press release let alone deign to debate with AS. I’m not sure they’re really trying – yes project fear is alive & festering but I’m not sure a Yes vote would be all that bad in their view & they’d get over it eventually, mainly by keeping up the pretence of empire.
rUKs future is in their own hands – if they choose to lurch further to the right, that’s up to them. Just so long as an independent Scotland is well clear of the blast zone (no trident pun intended).
OT have libdems got any soul left to sell after their new pro-nuclear, power at any price policy?
http://archive.is/w8SkL
Independent talking about the Scots male ‘braveheart’ sentiment behind Scottish independence.
Interesting choice of photo. Presumably the guy at the back has a wee sgian-dubh secreted away in his turban.
@Dcanmore
It still doesn’t make much sense though, Scotland leaving the UK could have severe economic ramifications for the rUK, Cameron must know this. He must be weighing up the pros and cons of Scottish independence. One thing’s for sure is that there is a shared desire by both the SNP and Conservatives for the destruction of the Labour Party. Yet, he will be known as the last PM of the UK, the one that lost Scotland. How would that affect his party’s chances of retaining power at the GE 2015? Then there is the Trident problem.
Why is Trident a problem? If we vote Yes then the Tories can use it as an excuse to get rid of it. Portillo and others (even Blair) have already admitted it is a waste of space. It would save the rest of the rUK a lot of money. There will still be a British state in some form (Wales will still be part of it, and Northern Ireland will not change for the forseeable future either). Scotland does have considerable natural resources and assets, but we are hardly irreplacable at the same time. As I said in my last post, rUK would still be able to claim around 10% of the oil and gas, and they would save £25-30 billion every year from the annual block grant we get from Westminster. I should have added to my last post that if we vote Yes next year then we will have to pay our part of the debt as well.
Mutley79
‘The Tories would also save sending the annual block grant to Scotland as well (around £25-30 billion),’
They wouldn’t save anything, they would lose more, that money is returned to us, it’s only a proportion of the total tax take from Scotland.
Think of it as someone giving their wife/husband their pay packet, and getting pocket money back, then after a clean break divorce, both parties can only spend their own income, rather than one spending most of the joint income and allowing the other small change.
@Red squirrel
‘OT have libdems got any soul left to sell after their new pro-nuclear, power at any price policy?’
http://fukushimaupdate.com/the-real-fukushima-danger-spent-fuel-pools/
Bateman’s take on the Salmond/Darling debate
http://derekbatemandotnet1.wordpress.com/
It is good to see a lot of grassroot activity away from the MSM. Here is a video from Yes Dundee. Heather who posts here from time to time organised the cafe.
@BobW
Yes, I agree that we are not subsidied. But the fact is it would not be going from Westminster to Scotland anymore. Surely that would be a saving for Westminster?
No, because the rather larger number of spondoolicks that flow from Scotland to Westminster would not be flowing.
mutley79
The route at the moment isn’t money from Westminster to Scotland, it’s Taxes/income from Scotland to Westminster with some returned from Westminster to Scotland.
Marcia
Thanks for this:
This the way it is to be done right enough.
No ‘by invitation only’ there then open and welcoming and looks like a good discourse going on. Not too bad a turn out. Well done them.
Firstly, I must admit my maths is not the best! What I was attempting to say was that when Unionists say we would have to pay for our part of the debt, they do not mention that Scotland would get around 8% of the assets of the British state. Therefore, in the event of a Yes vote the SG would have to pay the percentage sum of the UK debt- our share of the the assets from the British state. Are we (independence supporters) not doing the same thing in reverse. That what the UK loses from oil revenues, taxation from Scotland-the amount it saves from not having to send the block grant to Scotland, and the remaining share it has from oil and gas (around 10%) (plus having the option of scraping Trident and saving that money)?
DC: Scotland’s future will be in Scotland’s hands.
So the debate is not being influenced by largely unaccountable (foreign) press agencies, such as the BBC, or political parties controlled from London??
DC: I hope passionately that Scotland decides to remain within our United Kingdome.
He hopes Scotland will remain subservient to Westminster authority, where our votes count for nothing.
DC: What we have works, and it works well.
For whom?
DC: Ours is a unique union of nations, and it works well.
Following the collapse of the the Soviet Union, it think the UK and the USA are the most significant of the remaining unitary state(s). A unitary state headed by a monarchy is certainly becoming a unique position in the world. See above.
DC: Now is not the time to reduce that relationship to one of second cousins, once removed.
At least he didn’t say “foreigners”, even if that was what he meant.
DC: The best of Scotland and the best of British or a leap into the unknown?
The continued exploitation of Scotland’s talent and resources, coupled with a promise of austerity and food banks for at least a generation. Or perhaps the chance to create something better.
There, that didn’t take long. How much is this charlatan coining in?
Muttley, no. My head hurts now.
@Major Bloodnok: Great article, isn’t it? Thanks.
WTF!
They had to add a large poster of Cameron onto his 130 words just to fill out a page.
That is f****** desperate!!!!
It’s Alex Salmonds policy so obviously he’s got a bit too say on it. All of other three main parties in Scotland oppose it so I think it’s not unfair to think maybe they should got someone in the other three parties to write it someone with equal stature say …. Alistair Darling then I think this could have been interesting.
Also of course DC doesn’t want independence otherwise where would he go for his grouse shooting? Don’t tell me you think Nothumberland is a viable alternative.
I just think it’s a bit a cheap I don’t want to see our campaign hit the levels of bitter together.
Mr Bateman is on fire, I was sniggering away like a fool reading his latest offering. Alistair Darling got slaughtered, and you can so tell that Bateman is revelling in writing it. A must read for everyone .
As per muttley’s post…
Scotland puts a lot into the union coffers, yet its only 8.4% of the population. So the extra we put in is not actually absolutely huge in terms of the UK budget. It’s very big for Scotland though.
The Tories are keen to turn London into essentially a city state like Hong Kong or Singapore. The shires will be where the wealthy spend the weekend. The rest of England north of the Watford gap can rot; just good for hunting on landed gentry estates.
In that sense, Scotland is not a huge loss. Would also stop the jock tail wagging the English bulldog, which must be getting rather irritating for Gideon et al.
130 word says it all. Dave doesn’t really give a shit any more.
@Morag
I will try and simplify it. In the event of a Yes vote we have to pay our share of the debt from the financial crash of 2007-2008. Say it is around £200 billion. Say the assets we get from the UK state are £110 billion. Therefore the SG has to pay to Westminster:
Debt (£200 billion)- Assets (£110 billlion)= £90 billion.
Westminster loses 90% oil revenue, taxation receipts. Say lost oil revenue comes to £1 trillion, lost taxation receipts £20 billion a year. You would take this away from block grant of £25-£30 billion a year, and 10% of remaining oil revenue, say it is £200 billion.
Loss to Westminster of Scotland= £1 trillion+£20 billion a year-£200 billion+£25/£30 billion a year (plus possibly the savings in scraping Trident).
A numerically very confused offering from mutley at 7.35.
If we give Westminster more than they give us back how can stopping this save Westminster money?
And if they retain 10% of the oil and gas (a pretty generous estimate it must be said) how is this better than the 100% they get at the moment?
See my later post David.
mutley79
You can’t save anything from income you no longer have.
I used the wrong term when I said saved.
@muttley
The simple way of looking at it is we contribute 9.9% of Westminster’s income and they “give” us only 9.3% of their spending. This spending includes the debt interest, Trident, aircraft carriers, the House of Lords, the Government Wine fund and 220,000 civil servants in London all with £3000 London weighting allowance.
Imagine the benefit of employing our share of those 220000, about 19000, in Scotland on civil service salaries, say £26,000, that’s £0.5 billion into the Scottish economy, reducing our unemployment, which also saves, and saving £55,000,000 per year on those London allownces into the bargain.
So, Cameron says it is up to the Scots. That’s fine, he can debate too.
According to Wikipedia, there is this…
His father was born at Blairmore House, a country house near Huntly, Aberdeenshire. Blairmore was built by his great-great-grandfather, Alexander Geddes,[10] who had made a fortune in the grain trade in Chicago, and returned to Scotland in the 1880s.
His name is Scottish, half of his predecessors were Scottish, and his father was Scottish, This makes him half-Scottish!
Yep …I think Cameron can get involved!
WOW.
The PM of the UK putting forth the positive case for the union. That’s the reason for all that blank, white space on the page!
In his 130 words, he mentioned that Scotland’s future is in the hands of Scotland/Scots no less than three times. A large chunk was taken over by stating the bleeding obvious (there will be a referendum on 18.9.2014). The rest reads like some poor schoolkid trying to make up enough words for an essay. Adding spurious “so’s”, “too’s” and starting sentences with “and’s”. I especially love “second cousins once removed” (= 4 words) instead of just “cousins” or “foreigners” or whatever.
Not to mention that the whole piece was inane waffle. Loved Sunday Herald’s editorial comment/explanation – about as long as David Cameron’s.
Thanks to Rod for the pic of the whole page spread, with Alex Salmond’s positive case for independence taking up the whole allocated space on the facing page. Now, where can I read that online without giving page clicks to the Herald?
Blank space? I thought it was a picture of a unicorn. Can’t you see it?
Well now we know why David Cameron wont debate with our First Minister – he has nothing to say.
And still they play their little games.
All the Unionist negativity is presented to try to show Scotland being the multi-faceted loser by reclaiming our political Independence and how awful it will be for us.
Every Nation that has ditched these political manipulators has prospered as a result.
Tell us as to how Westminster will gain by Scotland becoming a free European Nation.
Tell us too, if you dare, how you see England faring without Scottish subsidy.
Tell us how you see England becoming drastically worse off as we retake our abused freedoms for future generations.
It’s jam again, jam jam jam not spam!
————————————–
But Clegg indicated that the Scottish people would be given a second vote, to allow them to decide on “devo-max”, if they vote to remain in the UK in the referendum that will be held a year on Wednesday.
He said: “You can’t have that discussion on which powers you devolve until you first determine that Scotland remains part of the UK.”
The remarks by Clegg are likely to be seized on by nationalists who had believed that the people of Scotland should be given two choices in the referendum – independence or “devo-max”. But George Osborne ruled this out and pressed for a straight in-out vote after calculating that the electoral success of the SNP denoted anger with Labour, the largest party in Scotland in recent decades, and not overwhelming support for independence.
The prime minister issued an overnight plea for the people of Scotland to remain in the UK. In a statement issued on the eve of the 365-day countdown to polling, Cameron said 18 September 2014 was “Scotland’s date with destiny. It will be time for Scotland to decide. The best of Scotland and the best of British or a leap into the unknown? Scotland’s future is in Scotland’s hands.”
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2013/sep/15/nick-clegg-scottish-people-referendum-ballot
Do you agree that the Union should go and —- itself…….
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BUM_imOCEAAVGoc.jpg
YES/NO
🙂
I’m not really sure why Nick Clegg says, indicates, promises or pledges anything – no one believes a word he says.
Especially if he has signed it.
SS
re. Would also stop the jock tail wagging the English bulldog
In the words of that other Lamont, they may see it as – ‘a price worth paying’
Why isn’t everyone talking about Willie Rennie’s speech? Where are the highlights?
call me dave says:
15 September, 2013 at 9:08 pm
.
It’s jam again, jam jam jam not spam!
Thousands of Scots voted NO in 1979 after listening to Lord Douglas Home promising a better form of devolution, thus failing to achieve the 40% hurdle and despite a naarow YES vote for devolution we had to wait 20 more years for any devolution to come along
Surely we can’t risk getting fooled again and need to remind younger voters what unionist promises mean.
Ianbrotherhood.
There are highlights? :{
@ianb
Maybe that’s because Wullie is the only Rennie that actually gives you indigestion?
Linda’s back
Well I see your mother must have told you all about 1979 and it’s true.
But you could trust a politician then…. OH wait .Ahh! the 40% rule.
MP Cunningham’s amendment Aye he did the dirty on us all then.
You don’t have to remind me I was there.
Wee Norman has now been viewed 22 times since he was posted here this afternoon, surpassing his previous record by…21.
Come on folks – this wee dog symbolises something awesome. Does he choose to go down the hill? Naw. Onward and upward, always, one proverbial at a time. We’ll never know what he got when he reached the top, but we know what we stand to gain. It’ll be worth every creak and groan…
It wont be deja’ vu all over again.
http://www.scottishpoliticalarchive.org.uk/wb/pages/referendum/1979/40-rule.php
@Marcia & lumilumi-
I think you’re both being very cruel to a wee man who’s just doing his best.
Anent the ‘saving’ to England if and when we depart. Yes we know that the true financial flow is from North to South. That is not important. What is important is the public perception, in the swing constituencies as always. An imagined ‘subsidy’ to Scotland is a real subsidy in electoral terms. So Dave can sell this as a saving, even though it’s not.
@ ianbrotherhood you have heard it all before many times.
https://twitter.com/WingsScotland/status/379251970063994880
Am I just being wildly optimistic or does the editorial “Referendum debate must live up to its historic importance” sound very much like the Sunday Herald will indeed come out on the Yes side??
Tomorrow morning between 10 and 12 there’s a Radio Five Live Debate from Glasgow on our future. Also on the News Channel it’s televised 10 – 11 then 1130 -12.
Watch and listen with interest.
Just had an idea.
We’ve all seen special ‘Limited Edition’ drinks and foodstuffs. ‘The Big Purple One’ etc. It’s ludicrous, but probably works otherwise they wouldn’t do it. Why doesn’t someone bring out special ‘limited edition’ Jelly Babies called Jackie Baillies? There’s an obvious alliteration thing going on there, and a sound reason to make them substantially larger than normal. I’d buy them for sure, especially if they were on a BOGOF.
Clegg told The Andrew Marr Show on BBC1: “I certainly think in many ways actually what the Scottish people want isn’t exactly on the ballot paper – which is a greater expression of Scottish nationhood, greater devolution of powers from London to Holyrood, what is called in the jargon “devo-max” or in Liberal Democrat language, ever since the days of Gladstone, home rule. In many ways that is where I think we need to go as a nation – as a United Kingdom and as Scotland.”
Oh dear Clegg. Who decided it should not be on the ballot paper? Oh yes it was the government of which you are Deputy PM of!…
@Linda’s back
It’s jam again, jam jam jam not spam!
Thousands of Scots voted NO in 1979 after listening to Lord Douglas Home promising a better form of devolution, thus failing to achieve the 40% hurdle and despite a naarow YES vote for devolution we had to wait 20 more years for any devolution to come along
Surely we can’t risk getting fooled again and need to remind younger voters what unionist promises mean.
I don’t think Douglas Home’s promise meant that we failed to achieve the 40% hurdle. Even if he had not made it, we still would not have got over that hurdle. It was just too much. Having said that, it was an illustration, along with the 40% rule itself, of just how far Westminster would go to deny Scotland, and its people, the power and repsonsiblity we wanted. The McCrone Report is yet another example as well. It should serve as a warning to people who live here not to trust the Jam Tomorrow promises of the Unionists.
Here’s a thing.
Out yesterday at Anniesland, Glasgow.
Guy passing by, about 60ish. Have you thought about the referendum, says I. Yes, says he, and it’s YES.
He then went on, I was the chairman of the Student Unionists at Glasgow Uni, I think he said when he was there.
But this present bunch, I’ve given up on them, Ruthie and Carlaw mentioned by name. So I said, you will be able to vote for a Scottish Conservative after Independence. And off he went.
If the people I speak to are the norm, I’m QC. And I’ve asked some guys, would they be Labour men by any chance thinking Labourfor Indy, Labour f*****, f***** Naw.
BobW, Scottish Skier and Derick Tulloch,
re. Would also stop the jock tail wagging the English bulldog
In the words of that other Lamont, they may see it as – ‘a price worth paying’
or ‘singing in the bath’ even? (hopefulwink)
‘Oh, FFS, just give him a wee bit of the crust, eh?’ –
http://twitpic.com/ddmory
@Scottish Skier
Scotland puts a lot into the union coffers, yet its only 8.4% of the population. So the extra we put in is not actually absolutely huge in terms of the UK budget. It’s very big for Scotland though.
The Tories are keen to turn London into essentially a city state like Hong Kong or Singapore. The shires will be where the wealthy spend the weekend. The rest of England north of the Watford gap can rot; just good for hunting on landed gentry estates.
In that sense, Scotland is not a huge loss. Would also stop the jock tail wagging the English bulldog, which must be getting rather irritating for Gideon et al.
130 word says it all. Dave doesn’t really give a shit any more.
That was the point I was trying to get across earlier. Scottish Skier has made it much better than I was managing!..
Ianbrotherhood,
if you push the rotate picture icon you can make him lie down, play dead and roll over! Its great fun but addictive.
Braco
Stop it………….@:0) !!
Your right addictive but
Jelly Babies called Jackie Baillies
That’s for me… big red ones with lavender jackets.
Time for my tablets ..
Tomorrow is another day.
O/T
A man died and went to Heaven. As he stood in front of the Pearly Gates, he saw a huge wall of clocks behind him. He asked, ‘What are all those clocks?’
St. Peter answered, ‘Those are Lie-Clocks. Everyone who has ever been on earth has a Lie-Clock. Every time you lie, the hands on your clock move.’
… ‘Oh’, said the man. ‘Whose clock is that?’
‘That’s Mother Teresa’s’, replied St. Peter. ‘The hands have never moved, indicating that she never told a lie.’
‘Incredible’, said the man. ‘And whose clock is that one?’
St. Peter responded, ‘That’s Abraham Lincoln’s clock. The hands have moved twice, telling us that Abraham told only two lies in his entire life.’
‘Where’s Jackie Baillie’s clock?’ asked the man.
St. Peter replied, ‘We are using it as a ceiling fan! ‘
@Braco, call me dave, and ‘ –
Superb. What we’re doing here is cheap and nasty. But whatever we say about these people is mere ‘sticks & stones’ compared to the real suffering they cause on a daily basis, to many thousands of their own folk, as part of their ‘job’.
I sometimes wonder if these characters have any concept of ‘dignity’ – don’t they set any store by their ‘word’ meaning something?
Plainly not – they have risen to positions of relative ‘power’ because they’ve proven themselves pragmatic i.e. capable of lying through their teeth (literally, in Rennie’s case).
No satire is too fierce for them – no mockery too harsh. They deserve so, so, so much more, and should consider themselves very fortunate to have achieved infamous prominence in a country where the natives tend not to find alternative uses for lamp-posts.
FTWFLOT.
call me dave:
Well I see your mother must have told you all about 1979 and it’s true.
But you could trust a politician then…. OH wait .Ahh! the 40% rule.
MP Cunningham’s amendment Aye he did the dirty on us all then.
You don’t have to remind me I was there.
It wasn’t just Cunningham, his proposal was backed by the Westminster Parliament with a Labour majority then. They have tried to disown it as he defected to the SDP but they supported it at the crucial time (then they blamed SNP for bringing Callaghan down a few weeks before his government would have collapsed anyway). Principles and Labour should not be mentioned in the same sentence (page even?) unless maybe before Herbert Morrison’s era in the late 40s.
Yes!!!
Norman’s up to 40!
Keep it going folks. He’ll be a legend yet…
Never mind omphaloskepsis, where did David Cameron find the inspiration for that piece in the herald?
http://wemeantwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/head_up_ass.jpg
ianb@10.07
Ouch! What have meerkats ever done to attract a comparison with Willie Rennie! Call the SSPCA!
O/T. It seems Tian Tian isn’t having a cub after all. 🙁 Wait for the MSM headlines: Salmond accused, uncertainty about Scotland’s constitutional future, Tian Tian didn’t want to bring a baby into this world unless she was absolutely sure it was going to be a BRITISH baby panda…
Yuang Guan and Tian Tian will be carted off to the safety of the British motherland (London Zoo) so that Scotland will once again have more Tory MPs than pandas. Nobody really wanted a panda rather than a prince, anyway. Right?
“…to keep OUR United Kingdom…..”
That explains the Westminster mindset to a T.
We are possessions in those eyes.
While everyone is rightly commenting on the substance of the article, I simply cannot get over the idea that the Herald, a proper newspaper, which I presume has a staff of proper journalists, editors, graphic designers and layout coordinators, saw absolutely no other way to present Cameron’s 130 word minifillibuster than to use blank white space?
I’m completely and utterly gobsmacked. This is, quite possibly, the most devastating method of undermining Cameron they could’ve done: the juxtaposition of Salmond’s full page to a meagre, paltry, pathetic few sentences from the supposed Prime Minister. I know The Herald has occassionally come close to some semblance of sympathy (or at least tossed a few KFC leftovers) to the Yes movement, but this is, in a word, amazing.
I’m actually having difficulty computing it, it’s like… trying desperately to find analogy… it’s like the equivalent of the “35 minutes” bombshell in Watchmen, you know?
“Devolution was narrowly supported by 51.6% (1,230,937 votes). It was opposed by 48.5% (1,153,502 votes). The turnout was 62.9% and when the 40% rule was applied it meant that 32.85% of the electorate had voted Yes compared to 30.78% who had voted No.”
I wasnt aware of this, i always took it that the yes vote simply lost to the no’s. I understood there was political shenanigans but never imagined that the winning vote lost due to some blatant and obvious bs cheating. How will the upcoming referendum be won or lost? A straight 50%+1?
I read the second column and realized that that set of words was the Herald’s thinly disguised ire. DC should be embarrassed. He *should* be, but I expect he’s not…
I imagine that they had laid out the two pages to match and give equal prominence to the two leaders, and they were waiting for Cameron’s text to fit it into the space. When 130 words turned up, they got back to Cameron’s office and asked for a longer piece. That request was ignored, and someone just said, sod it.
Re: the header above
From Telegraph Oct 2011 -also ‘resisting with everything we’ve got’
http://tinyurl.com/pvbuefq
Yeah. And that’s all he’s got.