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Wings Over Scotland


Lions and children first

Posted on June 25, 2016 by

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    1. 25 06 16 08:56

      Lions and children first | speymouth

    183 to “Lions and children first”

    1. jimnarlene says:

      Go on Hamish, jump ship and row like hell.

    2. MajorBloodnok says:

      And as the ship foundered the band played “Nearer my Gove to thee.”

    3. Ghillie says:

      Heading into open seas without a compass or a clue!

      Haul in the life line Hamish!

    4. Almannysbunnet says:

      Jesus Hamish! Get in the raft before you cut the rope!

    5. Gary45% says:

      Posted earlier. Oops
      So HMS Xenophobe has set sail.
      Should we tell them they don’t have any life jackets?

    6. Breeks says:

      Don’t leave behind your EU passport Hamish. It will be much safer in your hands than his.

    7. Bugger (le Panda) says:

      Ghillie

      Their temporal compass along with the moral one are both stuck up John Bull’s arse.

    8. Sharney Dubs says:

      Spot on as usual!!
      Roll on #2 and let’s make it stick this time!!

    9. iheartScotland says:

      Chris,
      Sums it up perfectly. …thanks!

      Major,
      Thanks for the laugh too 🙂

    10. Robert Louis says:

      Great cartoon.

      Joking aside however, it is also very true. As a country, we have one lifeboat left, independence from the broken, racist Yookay. We better take it ASAP. Much as I initially thought we could take the next two years to do this, I am now of the opinion that it must be done with some speed, before we are literally dragged down by England.

      In the last 24 hours the UK credit rating has been downgraded by two different ratings agencies. In three months or less, the yookay will be the poor man of Europe. Despised by all around it.

      As I posted yesterday, my enthusiasm is no longer merely for independence sake, but for our very survival. Make no mistake, behind the scenes, Westminster and the Bank of England, will be fighting to stop the pound crashing immediately, but it will be allowed to fall slowly over the coming months. Everything will, as predicted become more expensive to buy.

      God help those in England left behind, but at least here in Scotland we now have a chance to get out of this rotten corrupt, discredited and wholly undemocratic union with England for good.

      It REALLY is about our survival now. Let’s leave Farage, Boris and Gove, with their coterie of xenophobic little Englanders behind. Let’s do it soon, please.

      UK credit downgrading : http://archive.is/0Y6Fz

    11. David Innes says:

      And as the storm clouds gather…..

    12. cearc says:

      Another nice one, Chris.

      Major, far too good so early in the morning.

    13. Croompenstein says:

      Spot on Chris, the planets are aligning beautifully.

      I wonder when the first post Brexit opinion poll on Indy will be done may be interesting

    14. Joemcg says:

      I know the mood is to be amicable to no voters but it’s extremely difficult at this point. They have fucked us over yookay royally and very few are apologetic.

    15. Ruby says:

      I might have to come back later to look at the cartoon as I’m in a really bad mood at the moment having been waken up by the Orange fockers banging their drums!

      What kind of country am I living in?

      Next it’ll be the ‘Klu Klux Klan’ out on the streets waving their Union Jacks!

    16. galamcennalath says:

      Brilliant, as always. Captures the situation precisely.

      Robert Louis says:

      “we have one lifeboat left … better take it ASAP”

      Everyone seems to know a NO voter who has just switched. Social media has many saying they have switched. The next set of polls asking the Indy question will hopefully show a significant shift.

      We need the trigger, and a trigger which changes public opinion. This might be it after all.

      “To the big lifeboat, plenty of room for all!”

    17. One_Scot says:

      This has now become the ‘perfect storm’. There will be many many thousands of people who did not vote or voted ‘No’ in the Scottish Independence referendum that will now vote ‘Yes’. From people who now realise they were lied to, to people who voted ‘No’ to remain in Europe, to the younger generation and many Europeans who once believed the UK offered the best protection for them.

      There is now no lie or fear story or ‘step into the unknown’ line that has not been debunked or ignored by England that can now be used against Scotland with any credibility.

      As for all this plan B crap, Boris Trump didn’t even have a plan. Not only did he not have a 600 page White Paper, he didn’t even have a fag packet. And as for having to use the euro scare story, anyone who believes that does not fully understand the situation or the fact that it makes perfect sense for Scotland and England to continue using the pound.

      Also, as for Westminster not allowing a Scottish referendum, they don’t have the moral authority to do that.

      I cannot imagine decent English voters who have won their Independence now somehow wishing to deny Scotland the same status.

      Can you seriously imagine a ‘No’ vote in two years time, who in their right mind would believe there was no foul play involved.

      This would only drive and make the younger generations more determined to correct what would clearly be wrong.

      This journey is now on a one way street with no turning back.

      Scotland being Independent is now not just good for Scotland, it is essential for Scotland.

    18. Cadogan Enright says:

      Go for it Hamish

      When you get to safety, please help rescue us in North East Ireland

    19. Robert Peffers says:

      Great one Chris,

      BTW: Is it just my own imagination or do the several BBC presenters who front cameras and mics sound somewhat cowed and deflated this morning?

      Mind you that big overinflated orange balloon, Big Brian, could certainly do with a bit of deflating.

    20. John Moss says:

      A good topical cartoon as always.

      But I think it’s wrong to presume that we Scots really would be better off in Europe.

      Independence yes, Europe…really need to think thast one over and then hold a referendum on that.

    21. Breeks says:

      Seize the initiative Scotland.

      If there is a Brexit 2 referendum, and there will be, it will need to fit inside the 2 year Section 50 deadline just like ourselves, and that means running parrallel to any YES referendum, and that means both campaigns will be competing for the same oxygen.
      Please, let us be bolt, take and hold the golden gift of initiative and give YES 2 the first gulp of oxygen. Set a date for Indyref2 and Brexit2 be damned to playing catch up and out of breathe from the off….
      We need YES 2 to have commitment and a date, and get in quick before rUK realises they need an emergency Brexit 2.

    22. HandandShrimp says:

      We live in very interesting times.

      I am struck by the strange contortions of people on radio shortbread, bereft of an SNPbad, desperately trying to argue that black is white and that 38% is a substantial majority (in a minority sort of way).

      Is there anything left in the Better Together promise box that Westminster has not broken?

    23. dakk says:

      Excellent Chris.

      There is going to be plenty new material for you in the coming months.

      Hamish is about to wake from his slumber again.

    24. mealer says:

      1) Is the EU prepared to change radically in order to keep the UK in?

      2) Is the UK prepared to change radically to keep Scotland in?

    25. Red Squirrel says:

      Go Hamish!

      Indyref2 – all welcome aboard the life raft. Have we got room for the 75% of young folk in E&W who voted In but are being hauled out anyway? My heart breaks for them, what future have they got now?

      Thanks so much Chris, there’s something very reassuring and comforting about the determined expression on Hamish’s face – I like to think it’s hope.

    26. Ruby says:

      John Moss says
      Independence yes, Europe…really need to think thast one over and then hold a referendum on that.

      Ruby replies

      We’ve just had a referendum on that!

      I’d better go and calm down! It’s been a tough two days what with being subjected to a racist rant by a Leave voter yesterday while I was trying to relax in the sauna and this morning being waken by these Orange fuckwits!

      Hopefully tomorrow morning will be better and I will meet a lot of NO converts!

    27. Ruby says:

      Before I go to do my meditation I just want to say that Chris’s cartoon is very clever!

      The man has great imagination & superb drawing skills!

    28. Kevin Evans says:

      The mask of racism hasn’t slipped but been torn off from englanders.

      I honestly think they believe this is going to kick start the empire once again.

      As far as there new trade deals with India and so on many leave voters quoted regularly spok down the aid sent to India by the uk and how that had to stop since India had a space program.

      Mental

    29. gus1940 says:

      There is an Opinion Poll in, of all papers, the on-line Scotsman.

      On Independence about 20 minutes ago it stood at:-

      YES 66%
      NO 29%
      D/N 5%

      If 52% is enough to take The UK out of The EU surely 52% would be enough to give us our Independence in REF2.

    30. Macart says:

      Yep, that about sums it up.

      This is a chance to set things right and far sooner than many of us thought possible, but then events can always make nonsense of logic or theory.

      Regardless and as per the theme of the last thread, the people of Scotland are about to be given that rarest of gifts… a second chance.

      Events are funny like that.

      So be very, very clear what’s at stake here and what its going to take to make it happen. Its going to require an open hand, empathy, consensus and understanding just as a starter for ten. It won’t happen ANY OTHER WAY. We go? We go forward together, because we need to.

      No rosettes. No recriminations for past votes. There’s a gudawful mess to be cleaned up and MANY hands make light work.

    31. paul gerard mccormack says:

      SHIPS RATIONS. – FULL ENGLISH BREXIT. Served morning noon and all bloody night long.

      ‘Mistah Christian!’

    32. Tam Jardine says:

      What a change in a few short hours. I expect the 47-50% pro indy support to take a significant leap and SNP and Scottish Green membership to surge.

      We on this site have a huge responsibility to conduct this next campaign with dignity, enthusiasm and energy but we must be inclusive.

      In my view we need a white paper that projects our strengths, short term plan and the risks involved in both outcomes. Much shorter with no long term political planning that would be decided by future governments.

      We need figures across the political spectrum to unite behind this.

      I hope Kezia takes time over the weekend to reconsider her position as she is staring into the abyss. Can you imagine Scottish labour campaigning for a no vote after the EU result? In direct and fundamental opposition to not only the Scottish People but her membership?

      If she does not grasp the thistle someone else in her team will and that would signal the end of her political career- an unnecessary end

      I think she is a good person and I think she could go some way to resurrect her parties fortunes. Now is the time for bold, brave decisions and the labour voters in Scotland (and tory voters too for that matter) who backed Remain deserve political representation from their parties.

    33. Xaracen says:

      @John Moss

      “Independence yes, Europe…really need to think thast one over and then hold a referendum on that.”

      Maybe you haven’t been keeping up with events, John, but we just had a referendum on that, and Scotland is strongly in favour of being in the EU. You will need to provide a solid justification for another one, such as “a material change in circumstances”, and Independence on the back of Brexit isn’t one of them.

    34. cearc says:

      Is that England’s contribution to NATO’s fleet?

    35. K1 says:

      Macart,

      ‘… and MANY hands make light work.’

      We’ll be needing some ‘pledge’ then…

      http://www.snp.org/independence

      coat oan

    36. Undeadshaun says:

      Scary times are ahead for us all and we need to all do our bit to make independence happen this time and ensure we have another campaign of positivity on why we need to break free.

      If Scotland gets independece and ireland reunification happens there will be just England and Wales left.

      I read that there is a petition up for London to declare itself a city state, not sure if that could happen.

      But imagine a UK with no London, Scotland or Ireland, will the brexiters wish they had not voted for leave if that all comes to,pass in coming 24 months?

    37. Thepnr says:

      Hamish knows what he’s doing, he sees inside the big black cloud on the horizon and the evils it contains.

      Johnson, Gove and Duncan Smith all lurk there.

      Now that they have taken back control what are their plans for it and who do they plan to control? Not Scotland, we have a lifebelt and a paddle and every intention of using them.

      Avoid the storm, let’s prepare for IndyRefII.

    38. Hobbit says:

      Have we thought through the irony that with this vote, we and London are actually left with a good deal in common? Politics is about to make some very strange bedfellows!

    39. Katie says:

      I have posted this on the other thread but I really want to share this, ask advice and ask if anything has happened to anyone else here regarding jobs or potential jobs……

      Interesting….. As an immigrant in the EU (i not keen on the term ex pat). I applied for another job here in Italy. I was called this morning to say I was unsucessful due to not having the right skill set. Now that may well indeed be the case but I cant help but wonder if this has anything to do with recent events. Especially being informed on Saturday morning, the day after it all kicked off. Now if I want to look for a new job what should I do? Keep looking in Italy or another EU country as a British citizen and potentially wasting my time or come back to Scotland and end up with possibly a really dodgy contract which does no longer adhere to EU regulations? Advice welcome.

    40. HandandShrimp says:

      Barroso and Co went out their way to kill Scottish independence. I wonder if the new people in the EU will do the exact opposite and give the kiss of life?

    41. geeo says:

      Notice a few references to dark clouds and storms above…the lyrics to Jacob’s Ladder by RUSH on their 2112 album seem appropriate.
      …….

      The clouds prepare for battle
      In the dark and brooding silence
      Bruised and sullen stormclouds
      Have the light of day obscured
      Looming low and ominous
      In twilight premature
      Thunderheads are rumbling
      In a distant overture

      (Musical interlude)

      All at once,
      The clouds are parted
      Light streams down
      In bright unbroken beams

      (Musical interlude)

      Follow men’s eyes
      As they look to the skies
      The shifting shafts of shining
      Weave the fabric of their dreams…
      …….

    42. Tam Jardine says:

      Thepnr

      I’ll give you a wee laugh on a glorious Saturday morning in Glasgow. Just walked through a big UK armed forces recruitment fair in George Square.

      Have spent the last 10 minutes looking at these folk trying to sign up Glaswegians to the RAF!

      Looks like somebody didn’t get the memo.

    43. paul gerard mccormack says:

      In the aftermath of Thursday, I have detected a disinterested resignation from influential commentators on their acceptance of a future independent Scotland such as,’we will be shorn of scotland’ and ‘Scotland will be likely to go’- all this from people previously vehement in their opposition to independence such as the dreadful Toynbee etc.

      This is all to the good. They’d rather say to the English right, ‘see what you’ve done now?’ There will be less opposition from the soft English ‘left’. – The Labour party aside of course as they’re just in a time warp.

      I agree that the work ahead for us is in the families and colleagues and workplaces to convince the former no voters that this ‘union’, which never was, is now well and truly dead.

    44. Valerie says:

      Great toon, Chris.

      There are a sizeable chunk of onlookers on shore, envying Hamish.

    45. Almannysbunnet says:

      @One_Scot says: 9:19
      “I cannot imagine decent English voters who have won their Independence now somehow wishing to deny Scotland the same status.”

      Aye but it’s the not so decent ones you have to watch for. This from Peter Osborne in the Daily Mail. Dripping with malice!

      “The Scottish Nationalists should be offered a second independence referendum — when the terms of Brexit are settled. This would be a fair democratic decision and it might secure the Parliamentary life of the new London government. For the Scot Nats would then be dependent on the new government to obtain permission to go ahead with a second independence referendum and thus it would agree not to support any no-confidence vote. The SNP would also face the same problem as before if it went independent and sought to rejoin the EU on its own — it would struggle as a small state to persuade Brussels to give it the same influence and hand-outs that Scotland got from Westminster. For example, would EU taxpayers fund Scotland’s lavish social security system, free university tuition fees, free prescriptions and public services in the way that English taxpayers do now?

      Real decent! Nothing but selfish punish punish punish.

    46. Valerie says:

      @ Paul Gerard

      Agree with that. Media has a different feel. Not Jock bashing, because we voted 62%, so nowhere to go with that.

      They are turning on each other, which was inevitable, because their outcome was still pretty narrow win for Leave.

    47. frogesque says:

      Thanks Chris.

      Think once Hamish reaches shore he may be a wee bitty buisy.

    48. Betty Boop says:

      Lunatics, keys, asylum… fill in the blanks!

      Gove and Johnson look like rabbits caught in the headlights, having had a jolly jape trying to position for PM and finding themselves out of the EU. Well, that worked well, didn’t it? Can’t run back to mummy…

      Going to end up with the worst of an already dreadful party in power at Westminster.

    49. Almannysbunnet says:

      Just to be clear. Scotland is not trying to join the EU. It’s trying to avoid leaving it against its will. Don’t let the yoons tell you anything else!

    50. heedtracker says:

      Great stuff. Where’s the Welsh Rear Admiral. I do not get Wales at all.

      During 2014 ref, BBC creep show had all kinds of economic catastrophes waiting for Scotland but they kept saying that cities like Glasgow went down the UKOK shitter because UK trade and commerce was all focused at Europe, through the south of England when we joined.

    51. Dan Huil says:

      The Vital Spark

    52. Betty Boop says:

      @ paul gerard

      This is all to the good. They’d rather say to the English right, ‘see what you’ve done now?’ There will be less opposition from the soft English ‘left’.

      Well, yes, until Scotland tries to assert itself in any way. They’ll soon turn on us again.

    53. Brian McHugh says:

      Looks like the Tory’s hope of delaying the invoking of Article 50 is being put under big pressure by the EU. I can’t see Europe not protecting their self interests… Thing’s are going to get spicey in the coming weeks and months.

    54. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26215579

      If ref 2 is coming, will the EU do more than the nothing they did 2014. Will we just have more of BBC creep show pumping out stuff like

      16 February 2014 Last updated at 11:55 GMT

      José Manuel Barroso, the President of the European Commission, has said it would be “extremely difficult, if not impossible” for an independent Scotland to join the European Union.
      Barroso told Andrew Marr an independent Scotland would have to reapply for membership and get the approval of all current member states.
      He cited Kosovo –

      8 months out from the referendum. 8 months of britnats like Marr pumping this in to ref 2 debate.

    55. Robert Louis says:

      Geeo at 1015am,

      Anybody who cites Rush, is a winner in my book.

      Another point, as others have pointed out above, it is important to remember, Scotland is not trying to JOIN the EU, rather Scotland is trying to not be dragged out of the EU against our wishes. A very, very important distinction.

    56. Robert Louis says:

      Already the BBC propagandists are running with the same ‘but Scotland will be FORCED to use the Euro’ pish, like they did in the first Scottish independence referendum.

      Mind you, in a few months NOBODY will want the ‘UK’ Pound, as it will be worthless.

      The BBC propagandists at work already.

    57. DerekM says:

      Get in that raft Hamish and get the hell away from that butcher flag waving lunatic.

      Hehe great work Chris 🙂

      I see little Englanders are still saying no to Scotland gaining her independence,well little Englanders deal with it because its not your choice.

      Will send you some boxes of hankies so you can wipe away the tears.

    58. heraldnomore says:

      ah well, usual call screening rules apply for KwithanE…

    59. Flower of Scotland says:

      The state TV stations still coming out with “there is no increase in the polls for Scottish
      Independence…..”

      My UKIP cousin living in Stafford, who wants to put the “Great” back into Great Britain, is very annoyed on his Facebook page at his friends on social media. They should be excited and thankful that England forced us out of the EU.

      Born in Scotland, but lived down south 50 years. I’m just going to let him rant!

    60. galamcennalath says:

      If the voting age had been lowered to 16 for EURef, Remain would almost certainly have won.

    61. cearc says:

      Katie,

      Apply as a Scot. Scotland’s not leaving.

    62. Betty Boop says:

      Can somebody not get Kaye with an e off the radio? In an independent Scotland, I wouldn’t sack her, I’d make her do the road reports. 🙁

    63. schrodingers cat says:

      still pinching myself, i didnt think brexit would win but it is the perfect storm right enough

      still shocked by those who have already defected to yes, not just the number of folk on social media but even some very high profile individuals
      jakey, the daily record, mike dailly….

      i didnt expect that so quickly. i have also noticed that there has been no coverage of any eu official mentioning scotlands position. the bbc wont be able to hide that from us for ever

      rev did a poll recently asking about indyref if brexit a while back, from memory the results were 56% would support indyref2 but only 52% would vote yes.

      i would be very interested to see a poll now

      rev, any chance of crowd funding another opinion poll?
      i really think we need one.

      chris, your cartoon should have included at least one of the 3 english lions jumping into the life boat with hamish 🙂

    64. Phydaux says:

      Perfect…you always manage to say so much in a very skilled, witty and laugh out loud way.

      Stuart’s wise words about reaching out to each other is a timely reminder of how best to achieve our goal with our well earned second chance at IndyRef2.This result now confirms the complete disconnect between Scotland and England.My head is reeling from the repercussions and my heart is full of optimism and hope as we hit the ground running for Indy.

      If there is a General Election this year, the Tories and UKIP will win.The Labour Party are imploding, all by themselves, yet again.If I lived in England, there are no credible alternatives and no one else to vote for.Since there is no ” None of the Above ” options,I would feel effectively disenfranchised.

      Other thoughts… has anyone seen Nigel Farage? He was given unfettered access to the MSM during the campaign, despite having only one MP, Douglas Carswell.UKIP are/were the largest UK party in the European Parliament, with 22 MEPs.Is Nigel in line for a seat in the Lords? Don’t have to be an MP and could be his reward for aiding and abetting a Brexit victory, to the delight of the Tory Eurosceptics.

      As for Ruth Davidson, the Brxiteers may not be too keen on having a Vote Remain Tory in their midst.

      The SNP and the EU may now be able to negotiate Scotland remaining in the EU before we achieve Independence.I wonder if their are other routes to Independence without the need for another Referendum? I can’t see how the SNP MPs can achieve anything in Brexit Land during ” negotiations ” Westminster will seek to punish and humiliate us even more.Is it time for the SNP MPs to walk away from the DisUnited Kingdom and not play their silly games any more? Time to take the powers we need and not wait for what we won’t be ” given “? So much to think about and so much to look forward to and so many great contributors to help us on our way.

    65. FergusMac says:

      I hope that the conditions for Postal Voting can be tightened up. Before the Labour Party deliberately opened up this opportunity for corruption, undue influence and misuse, as well as undermining the secret ballot, you got a Postal Vote if you were genuinely prevented from going to your local polling station for some valid reason such as being sent out of the country by your employer or being housebound for health reasons.

      In my view, proxy voting should also be for genuine reasons only.

      The argument that Postal Voting helps turnout figures is a condemnation of the political system. A vibrant democracy and honest politics motivate people to vote.

      Is it within the powers of the Scottish Parliament to legislate on this?

    66. Dorothy Devine says:

      Thanks Chris – I just love Hamish but in this cartoon I’m a wee bit worried that he might untie prior to leaping to safety.

    67. hopper69 says:

      I personally know 6 no voters who have now turned to yes. They were borderline before but these are the people who will win it for us as we will never change the hardliners and are probably better not wasting our time.

      We have just had a referendum on Scotland being in the EU so please,no more divisive comments.Eyes on the prize,everyting else can and shouid be argued about once we are idependant.This is not to hide from issues very relevent to Scotland,but we must realise that Scotland has been divided and conquered for centuries.

      This is our moment this is the time for unity.Do not feed trolls.

      I feel confident the SNP already have a plan in place for this referendum result.The latest meetings can only be to decide timings and speed of progress,we will never have a better chance for a very long time, if ever.

      If kezia has one brain cell still functioning she will come out for indy and split from her masters in London.

      As for ruth?Who cares.

    68. schrodingers cat says:

      andy wightman told me on twitter that he has ” always been yes”

      i had always thought otherwise

    69. cearc says:

      Brian McHugh,

      Council of Ministers meeting should be interesting.

      I think there is a good argument for saying that the referendum triggered art.50.

      Much time was taken up preparing (yet more) new exceptions for UK who said that they would offer the deal up for an In/Out referendum. So the referendum result became the art.50 declaration.

      I don’t think there will be a lot of tolerance for the UK, who will not be represented. France is only too keen for them to ‘take control of out borders’ because they are pretty fed up with doing it and the problems it causes them.

      The UK has always been pain with their never-ending ‘but we’re a special case’ stuff.

    70. frogesque says:

      @Betty Hoop:

      I would make KwianE direct the traffic, on a wet Friday with nae jaiket

    71. Jim Thomson says:

      Just seen on Twitter that Nicola will be making an appearance on the telly at 11:30.

      It should, hopefully, make interesting listening and will launch either IndyRef2 or something more radical (daren’t hope).

    72. schrodingers cat says:

      nicola to make an announcement at 11.30 live on fb stv

      https://www.facebook.com/stvnews/

    73. Vestas says:

      McTernan over at his REAL home (the Torygraph) is saying that because of oil & currency there won’t be an indyref2 prior to Brexit happening.

      I think that probably ensures there WILL be an indyref2 🙂

    74. Marcia says:

      I have had 3 emails from the Financial Advisor firm that I use since the Referendum result. I should read them in a Corporal Jones voice, ‘Don’t panic, Don’t panic. For some to read the contents you would panic.

      The City of London will be panicking as the EU are starting to act hardball.

    75. alexicon says:

      Excellent cartoon as always Chris, you seem to have a knack of hitting the nail on the head with your drawings.

      I expect the 47-50% pro indy support to take a significant leap and SNP and Scottish Green membership to surge

      I hope not the greens because of Patrick Harvie’s, sounding like, backtracking on Scottish independence yesterday.

      Make no mistake here folks, if the SG calls another referendum they had better get certain things sorted out like central bank, currency etc. and they better have a better policy on Scotland joining the EU than the one we are about to leave, because many scots have reservations on the present membership of the EU and we need to placate them also.

    76. paul gerard mccormack says:

      Betty Boop #10.39

      hi Betty, just to say – I agree – of course they’ll be the noxious voices of the english right-wing press – the quentin letts of this world – they will always exist – but when all the hoo ha has died down, it will be the change in peoples hearts here that’ll do it and we will put the crosses in the right place this time.

    77. hopper69 says:

      Would it not be the case that Scotland would be the successor state if RUK leaves,and all existing agreements would continue with minor rewording to refer to Scotland only?Am I being to simplistic or to optomistic?

    78. Richardinho says:

      I remember back in 2014, one of my favourite arguments was that a No vote wasn’t necessarily the vote for certainty that the No campaigners liked to portray, and I’d usually cite the possibility of the Conservative party taking us out of the EU as an example.

      Of course the fact is that there is no path which guarantees certainty. Everything involves uncertainty and risk.

    79. Tam Jardine says:

      schrodingers cat

      I understand current polling is taking place (survation?) to establish exactly that although I would support a more in depth Wings Poll to help us understand the route ahead.

      I hear plenty of calls for caution and an almost softly softly approach. We need to run a different campaign this time round and I think we will approach it less as a rebel alliance and more as a national cross party campaign encompassing civic Scotland and business.

      Big business cannot, will not be our enemy this time round. The EU will certainly be allies in this next campaign.

      This very morning I received an copy of an excellent email from my big bro in France to French President Hollande asking for his support for the democratic will of the Scottish people. We need to start extending hands (as Nicola has already indicated our government is doing).

      Bilingual Wingers should use their talents in this regard.

      We should also seek support from large companies operating in Scotland.

      It is, of course a no-brainer but that does not mean we can leave everything to fall into place.

      You mentioned 10,000 flags. Perhaps a modified version incorporating the EU flag. Oh, and we need plenty more of them. I forget who organised this last time but it is indeed time to get the band back together.

    80. heedtracker says:

      (((Kevin Hague))) ?@kevverage 11m11 minutes ago
      I’m out of here

      Sums up yoon toryboy world in one tweet, no graphs. Tell them they’re shite, they’re bust, cant do it without tory Engerland, no oil, fiscal black holes, out of the EU, scarper…

    81. Brian McHugh says:

      Avoided the MSM like the plague throughout the EU Ref campaign… but watching the BBC’s take on things and then watching RT’s, is like watching two completely different events.

      FWIW… RT’s coverage is far more believable.

    82. cearc says:

      Schrodingers cat,

      Stu phoned Panelbase yesterday morning. They already had one ‘in the field’.

    83. heedtracker says:

      The City of London will be panicking as the EU are starting to act hardball

      Brexiteers raged at EU for years, they final do get the fcuk out, now they want everything to stay the same, for at least two years, for the good of the EU y’see.

    84. Tam Jardine says:

      alexicon

      Re the Scottish Greens- it is what I expect. We need to put division behind us. I am interested in your comment about Harvie back-tracking- was that on twitter or an interview or what?

      While everyone else is getting on board I cannot see the Scottish Greens getting off in the face of public opposition.

      Scottish independence is now irresistible for anyone with any concern for our environment, our sustainable future and our future prosperity.

    85. heedtracker says:

      How BBC propaganda tries to blend in their scotland region with England

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36616028

      All yesterday their BBC 24 UKOK news propaganda kept downplaying hard Scots IN vote, low turn out, election fatigue, over and over, same gimp piddling all over half of his UKOK lands.

      Imagine a Scottish nation state with that lot gone for good:D

    86. Tam Jardine says:

      alexicon

      Forgot to say- I agree wholeheartedly with the rest of your post. There are many things we need to get right and much work to do by the Scottish Government and sites like Wings.

      Having had a trial run so recently means that the failings or areas where the message did not get across well enough are fresh in our minds and can be addressed.

    87. Brian McHugh says:

      I watched a Unionist in Edinburgh on the TV last night, claim he voted Brexit because he was a Unionist.

      I couldn’t help but consider him a parochial and insular UK Nationalist.

    88. Brian Powell says:

      Listening to Jeremy Corbyn, and just thinking, “Oh God, dear God”.

    89. Bob Mack says:

      Indy ref2 should be reflective of what we are. Open ,inclusive,welcoming. This country has provided homes for everybody who arrived. We are civic Nationalists. Across the border we have the exact opposite.They are of the blood and soil type.

      The Internet is awash with distraught people wishing to come here,and wanting to bring their business with them.The Rev was bang on.We must put out the welcoming mat,the helping hand. I see great things ahead for this country if we do it right.

    90. SteveW says:

      On the numbers for yes in Indyref2.
      A polish guy I work with didn’t vote the last time. Said he thought it was for the “Scottish” people to decide. I said that although it was noble of him to say that, he was just as much a part of the “Living in Scotland club” as I am and tried to encourage him to vote.
      I wonder how many other people in similar circumstances last time also didn’t vote. I imagine that they will vote yes next time round.

    91. Juteman says:

      Why does the BBC keep on repeating the mantra that Scotland and London voted to remain? What is their motive in connecting London to Scotland? Something is going on here. I hope we stay away from some kind of joint bid to stay in the EU.
      Newcastle voted to remain, but that never gets a mention.

    92. Sinky says:

      @ schrodingers cat says:

      Add Nobel laureate Professor Peter Higgs to the list of prominent people saying they would now back an independent Scotland.

      Given the hostility to Yes in 2014 from the academic community this is significant.

    93. galamcennalath says:

      Juteman says:

      “the mantra that Scotland and London voted to remain”

      Indeed. Sorry Londoners but England is, for better or worse, yours.

    94. heedtracker says:

      Just got an forwarded email from a friend who’s company exports engineering to offshore northern Germany renewable energy from Aberdeen. They now have German 19% import tax to pay.

      They’re not fcuking around over there, no matter how hard toryboys like BoJo and Gove say don’t worry nothing’s going to change much at all.

    95. Brian McHugh says:

      Some talking head BBC reporter, responding to Nicola’s announcement… and stating that there would have been no border after a Yes vote in 2014, but now there is a question of a border, as England would be out the EU and Scotland in the EU.

      The fool clearly seemed to miss that very reality right now in Northern Ireland.

      Ps. He also ‘Guessed’ that there would not be a 2nd Indy Ref in the next 18 months… really? Guessed?

    96. Kevin Evans says:

      A dirty lying ba@£?rd of a bbc reporter just said on live tv “if Scotland had voted to leave in 2014 there would be no boarder between Scotland and England as they would both be European countries.”

      So much for the forgien neighbours arguement put forward by mags curry and likes.

    97. frogesque says:

      Every bit the national and international leader. Just watched the broadcast from Bute House.

      Go Nicola, go team Nicola, go Scotland. The brakes are off, we are on our way!

    98. Valerie says:

      Another great performance from the FM.

      She is inviting the 27 Consuls to Edinburgh for a wee chat.

      No mention of dealing with WM, except to say it’s in chaos, and Scotland has strong stable gov’t.

      Woohoo, game on!

      Fluffy will have to empty chair Nic at the Brexit talks! I did say no way would she take part, it’s all about clear blue water.

      Paddle faster, Hamish! Ramming speed!

    99. Laukat says:

      Have a look at Malcolm Chisolm’s twitter https://twitter.com/MalcolmChishol1

      Another welcome convert!

    100. heedtracker says:

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36628918?ocid=socialflow_twitter

      UK car industry needs ‘swift EU deal to curb high tariffs’

      Everyone does but why will EU countries give Brexiteers anything, let alone swiftly? Its what they voted out of and for, barriers.

      England want barriers to immigrants but keep tax free flow of their stuff. How frightfully toryboy. Perhaps they could send one of their gun boats to sort out the blighters. One of Crash Gordon’s £6bn+ aircraft carriers ought to change a few EU minds what.

    101. Robert Peffers says:

      @Joemcg says: 25 June, 2016 at 9:11 am:

      ” … and very few are apologetic”

      YET!

    102. Jack Murphy says:

      This morning. France says UK must trigger Article 50 departure Urgently.
      Sky News:-
      http://news.sky.com/story/1717427/uk-must-trigger-article-50-urgently-france

    103. OT but strangely not. Gavin Esler has just launched Project Fear Remix.
      According to him the question of a border between England and Scotland has never been an issue. If Scotland leave then there would have to be border controls.
      Is he thick as pig shit?
      Was he in a coma between 2012 and 2014?
      Hardly.
      Is he a paid up BBC Uncle Tom Unionist lackey ? Almost certainly. The game’s afoot.
      I could have kissed NS for her short sharp statement of intent on the steps of the official residence.
      Esler felt that she was treading cautiously.
      Idiot.
      Then we had Corbyn in his linen jaikit.
      It all started in the ‘eighties and the miners’ crisis.
      What a narrow Islington view of the destruction of UK Industry.
      There will be no bevvying?
      He will be ousted on Monday by the Burnhams, Coopers, and Ummanas of the Red Tory New Labour Right.
      Gavin Esler, what are you like?
      BBC News 24 is a foreign News outlet to us Up Here.
      Ca’ canny we will no longer tolerate. No more Mr Nice Guy.There is no time to lose. There is time to win.
      NS will sit down with 27 consulates and work out ‘Scentry’, Scotland in anticipation now of a YES vote, fast tracked back into the EU.
      BBC North korea. Did we exceed last month’s Tractor production figures.
      We believe the Beeb when they tell us that Boris was a poor bursary boy at Eton.
      Jeesh!

    104. Valerie says:

      @heedtracker

      That’s scary for your friend, they aren’t fooling about.

      Just heard the petition for another EU referendum down south has passed the 1M Mark.

      Folk down there must be pig sick. We know how that feels.

      They have to get their politics sorted.

    105. Brian McHugh says:

      Corbyn is a dead duck.

    106. Dr Jim says:

      The projectile vomiting of dyed in the wool Yoons is now not based on any kind of opinion or reason it’s the panic of something happening outwith their control and a slavish devotion to a dead idea rooted in imperialism,sectarianism, racism and any other kind of ism there is, and now we have a new word for this vomit

      Jealousy

    107. Ruby says:

      Katie

      I’m guessing that to be able to work in Europe as a non EU citizen you will require a work permit. Whether or not you get a work permit I suppose will depend on immigration policy.

      It could be that in Italy work permits are only issued to non EU immigrants who have skills that no EU citizen has and that is perhaps what they mean by the ‘right skill set’

      I reckon it will be very difficult for non EU citizens to work in the EU.

    108. heedtracker says:

      Valerie says:
      25 June, 2016 at 12:12 pm
      @heedtracker

      That’s scary for your friend, they aren’t fooling about

      England wants to stop immigration so they left the EU. England wants to trade with the EU but…

      Something’s really got toryboy world agitated this morning too

      Brian Spishart ?@BrianSpanner1 16m16 minutes ago
      Corbyn and Strugeon.

      History just passed you both by.
      2 retweets 5 likes
      Reply Retweet 2
      Like 5
      More
      Brian Spishart ?@BrianSpanner1 18m18 minutes ago
      OK.

      Sturgeon’s off Team Save UK.

      Go fuck yourself.
      2 retweets 6 likes
      Reply Retweet 2
      Like 6
      More
      Brian Spishart ?@BrianSpanner1 18m18 minutes ago
      Brian Spishart Retweeted Sky News
      An advisory panel.

      You coward.Brian Spishart added,

      1:40
      Sky News @SkyNews
      .@NicolaSturgeon says she’ll establish advisory panel with experts to help on legal, financial & diplomatic matters

    109. Richardinho says:

      Not sure what Corbyn has done wrong. The Brexit isn’t his fault.

      Looks like typical Labour party skullduggery and back stabbing to me.

    110. heedtracker says:

      Richardinho says:
      25 June, 2016 at 12:17 pm
      Not sure what Corbyn has done wrong. The Brexit isn’t his fault.

      SLab are monstering SNP for not campaigning the right way in Scotland, with huge IN Scots majority.

      Corbyn’s campaigning, how ever you judge it, saw most Labour regions going Brexit.

      JC’s the boss. Its his failure. He’s on the way out. Rightly so.

    111. iheartScotland says:

      Chris,
      Any chance of a cartoon showing the union ‘jumping the shark’ ?

    112. KraftyKris says:

      Ladbrokes offering 4/6 on the next Scottish referendum to be held before 2020. What do you reckon Rev?

    113. alexicon says:

      Tam Jardine.

      He was on reporting Scotland. At 5:50 he did say,min his defence, that independence is the only option then so be it, but he started by trying to look for other avenues to get out of calling for another referendum.

      http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b07gqt8t/reporting-scotland-24062016

    114. heedtracker says:

      So you voted OUT, youre not a racist but nothings going to change, trust us, we’re the toryboys.

      Brexit campaigner Dr Liam Fox said: “A lot of things were said in advance of this referendum that we might want to think about again and that (invoking article 50) is one of them.

      “I think that it doesn’t make any sense to trigger article 50 without having a period of reflection first, for the Cabinet to determine exactly what it is that we’re going to be seeking and in what timescale.

      “And then you have to also consider what is happening with the French elections and the German elections next year and the implications that that might have for them.

      “So a period of calm, a period of reflection, to let it all sink in and to work through what the actual technicalities are.”

    115. One_Scot says:

      I’m beginning to think that a September vote might not be a bad thing. Surely its a free shot at an open goal.

    116. Capella says:

      Good letter spotted in the Times today

      https://twitter.com/jessicaelgot/status/746616228723236864

    117. mealer says:

      Nicolas speech this morning.

      She wouldn’t have announced that she’s seeking direct talks with the EU unless she was absolutely sure of getting them.

      Her focus was on sticking up for the Scottish interest in all upcoming discussions,not on Indyref2.I think that’s very sensible at this stage.

    118. Valerie says:

      Peter Murrell has tweeted 1500 new members in the last 24 hours.

      Let’s hope for lots more, folks.

      The No voters are certainly out in force, fighting a rearguard action, telling us what we can’t do.

      So many experts on constitution out there, like Tom Harris.

      Best bet is give them no oxygen.

    119. Breeks says:

      This is all great for Scotland.

      Juteman, the BBC needs London for their narrative, or Brexit fallout without a London connection is a story about Scotland voting in, and England voting out. (No offence to NI). London is their last thread in a threadbare United Kingdom.

      All good I say…. Just beware the ides of Brexit 2. It will come, and it could come very quickly. 1 million petition already, Debate next week…Brexit 2 running side by side with YES 2.

      It’s easy to think the EU’s attitude and current momentum will make Independence inevitable, I think it will, but a few months down the line, mid winter when it’s cold out, people will have had time to think and get over their shock.

      I feel so very sad for friends in England. I fear they have very friends in Europe, and I suspect Nigel Farrage doesn’t have as many friends in the City as he pretends. The green and pleasant land might not be so pleasant at the moment.

    120. Stoker says:

      Another excellent thought provoking toon Chris, thanks!
      But more like Britannia Waves The Rules!
      _____

      Point of note – That’s the 3rd signaTory to The Con, sorry i meant to say “The Vow”, now removed from his position of power.
      _____

      As for tonight’s 5pm showdown between Wales and Norn Iron, i have absolutely no torn loyalties (((((C’MOAN THE WELSH)))))
      _____

      Imagine those untrustworthy Red Tory scumbags turning on auld Worzel Corbyn! Red Tories at their very best, blaming any chunt but themselves. A party full of paedophiles, liars, tractors and gophers.

      NO MORE LIBLABCONS – SET SCOTLAND FREE WITH THE SNP

    121. Kevin Evans says:

      So it looks like the BBC is really pushing bring pals with the USA idea. From my perspective it sounds more like the uk is heading to America with a begging bowl.

    122. cearc says:

      Jack Murphy’s link,

      http://news.sky.com/story/1717427/uk-must-trigger-article-50-urgently-france

      Well worth a look for the picture of The New Yorker’s cover – just brilliant.

    123. Robert Louis says:

      Jack Collatin,

      Gavin Esler knows EXACTLY the lies he is spouting. He was up here for the first indy referendum. He knows full well, that no country can be FORCED to join the Euro – case in point, Sweden. Secondly regarding borders, for freaks sake, the UK has had a land border open to the EU in N.Ireland for decades.

      The BBC, yet again spouting lies and propaganda to Scotland on behalf of London.

      N.B for a country to join the Euro it must meet several convergence criteria, set by the EU. These are as follows;

      The convergence criteria are formally defined as a set of macroeconomic indicators which measure:

      Price stability, to show inflation is controlled;

      Soundness and sustainability of public finances, through limits on government borrowing and national debt to avoid excessive deficit;

      Exchange-rate stability, through participation in the Exchange Rate Mechanism (ERM II) for at least two years without strong deviations from the ERM II central rate;

      Long-term interest rates, to assess the durability of the convergence achieved by fulfilling the other criteria.

      The exchange-rate stability criterion is chosen to demonstrate that a Member State can manage its economy without recourse to excessive currency fluctuations, which mimics the conditions when the Member State joins the euro area and its control of monetary policy passes to the European Central Bank (ECB). It also provides an indication of the appropriate conversion rate that should be applied when the Member State qualifies and its currency is irrevocably fixed.

      Participation in the ERM (bolded above), is entirely voluntary, and at the discretion of the respective national government, not the EU.

      If anybody tells you the Euro is compulsory, they are lying. Several countries within the EU do not use the Euro, and do not CHOOSE to meet the convergence criteria, and likely never will. It is their CHOICE – an example being Denmark, or Sweden.

      No country joined the EU and immediately adopted the Euro.

      https://www.ecb.europa.eu/ecb/orga/escb/html/convergence-criteria.en.html

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sweden_and_the_euro

      Having said all that, with each passing hour the Euro becomes much more attractive than Pound Sterling anyway.

    124. msean says:

      Save yourself,Hamish! 🙂

    125. Ruby says:

      Sinky says:
      25 June, 2016 at 11:47 am

      @ schrodingers cat says:

      Add Nobel laureate Professor Peter Higgs to the list of prominent people saying they would now back an independent Scotland.

      Given the hostility to Yes in 2014 from the academic community this is significant.

      Ruby replies

      http://player.stv.tv/episode/3avo/scotland-tonight/scotland-tonight/

      @ 22:34 Tom Devine says

      ‘In the last 8 hours I’ve been bombarded with emails from pretty distinguished academics in Scotland all of whom voted No all have now changed their view on this’

    126. Jack Murphy says:

      12MD. Jeremy Corbyn says he would stand again for Labour leadership if challenged.

      “Jeremy Corbyn said that he will run for Labour leadership again if the party holds a fresh contest amid growing unease among the party’s MPs.
      When asked if he would run again in the event of a leadership contest at a speech today he replied: “Yes, I’m here, thank you.”

      ITV:- http://tinyurl.com/je3g26n

    127. Robert Louis says:

      As regards professor Higgs and other academics now supporting indy within the EU, the fact is Scottish universities get lots of science funding from EU led bodies.

      Some of this is short term, but other parts are long term, and this may not continue. In addition, vast amounts of scientific research are conducted on a cross EU and funded basis. This will be disrupted.

      Honestly, leaving the EU ranks as one of the stupidest, stupidest things to do.

    128. Ruby says:

      cearc says:

      Well worth a look for the picture of The New Yorker’s cover – just brilliant.

      http://tinyurl.com/hjr5r7d

      Ruby replies

      🙂

    129. Proud Cybernat says:

      Talking to a retired bloke in the pub last night about Brexit. He told me he voted NO in IndyRef#1 because he just didn’t like change. Being taken out of Europe for him is too big a change and he’ll be voting YES in IndyRef#2.

      You listening GCHQ? We’re outta here and there’s nothing you can do to stop us.

    130. Robert Graham says:

      BBC at it again removing the First Ministers statement of her intention to speak directly too and have meetings with EU ministers thereby cutting out the middleman (westminster) this was the relevant part of her statement leaving that out changes the whole narrative of what she was trying to get across, nothing changes at the beeb .

    131. Robert Louis says:

      jack Murphy at 1250pm,

      I have to say, I watched Corbyn interviewed many times during the EU referendum, and all I saw was a bitter, arrogant very stubborn man. That is what I felt. When asked questions he ‘didn’t like’ he immediately became aggressive and hostile. He is a liability to the Labour party.

      Given his behaviour patterns, I am not in the least surprised, that he says he would stand again.

    132. Dorothy Devine says:

      Watching Japan/Scotland rugby match – camera pans to the crowd AND AN INDYREF2- HERE WE GO notice is held up!

      Camera panned off speedily!

    133. Papadox says:

      Watching rugby jap vs Sco and seen indyref2 hand written message in the crowd. That’s something, the games in Japan. SCOTLAND!

    134. Petra says:

      A petition is doing its rounds right now with over one million signatures (and rising rapidly) re. demanding another in / out EU referendum. The feasibility of this happening has been discussed on Sky. Bottom line …. because there are over 100,000 signatures it will be discussed in the Commons ….. unlikely to happen however if a GE was called and a ‘Remain’ Government won that could have implications.

      I thought the UK had / has a Remain Government in place at the moment, duh!

      Talk about shambolic. England must be the laughing stock of the planet right now. Officials in Brussels are raging that the triggering of Article 50 is being held up because the Tories have to elect a new leader. Europe is in a state of flux due to the Brexit vote and some seem to think that we’ll go through this again within a few months. Mumping that less than 70% of the electorate voted etc, etc.

      More likely that they see now that they’ll lose Gibraltar, Scotland, (maybe) N Ireland and that their economy is going to go right down the stank. Some may also have realised that they have been conned by the Leave Vow that is that the promises made weren’t valid. Nothing in writing, nothing signed and in fact no paper used at all …. not even on the back of a fag packet.

      Pretty galling to think that some of their numbers are the very people that say that Indyref2 is off the cards for us for years to come, if ever.

    135. Hobbit says:

      To pick up on comments above about London. We do need allies in England, for all sorts of reasons – and working with London may be a useful strategy.

    136. davidb says:

      So far. We have had 4 votes in a row where the opinion polls were wrong. Cameron wasn’t meant to win the UK elections – and we were due all 59 seats. The SNP were shooty in for Holyrood – but we didn’t get 60% of the votes. Now, when the polls closed it was 52:48 remain – until 3 in the morning.

      The polls are like trip advisor reviews. There are so many of them its impossible to believe them. And a wise person would take them all with a pinch of salt.

      What this latest outcome has done in Scotland is permit those people who voted No to be able to switch while saving face. They know they fucked up. People don’t like to admit when they got something wrong. They cover it up, hide their personal shame.

      It is time we buried the old campaign. We are starting afresh. The arguments are essentially the same. But our fellow Scots can be forgiven now and welcomed onto our side.

      When it comes, be magnanimous. Every sinner who repents is saved.

      Never mind opinion polls, lets go for this. And please, appeal to the elderly who were not with us last time, to put their grandchildren first and foremost in their thoughts. If they do not want to vote yes, ask then to stay at home. This fight is for our future, not our past.

    137. Robert Graham says:

      just waiting on the fallout when it finally dawns on the English it was the one million plus scottish votes that tipped the balance shit will be coming from both directions .
      the rise of English nationalism will get independence not the conversion of NO voters the venom from these people will unite Scots because they won’t differentiate between no and yes voters to them we are all the same just like them foreigners across the channel grabbing their money .

    138. Robert Peffers says:

      @One_Scot says: 25 June, 2016 at 9:19 am:

      ” … Also, as for Westminster not allowing a Scottish referendum, they don’t have the moral authority to do that.”

      They don’t have the legal authority to do it either, One Scot. I’ll explain it again for you.

      In 1688, at the time of the English Kingdom’s, “Glorious Revolution”, the main drive behind that revolution was the parliament’s fight against, “The Divine Right of Kings”, which was the law of the Kingdom of England, (that is the three countries of Wales, Ireland and England).

      This was the main accepted law throughout Europe that was then known as, “Christendom”, and the pope in Rome was the head of Christendom.

      However, since 1320 Scottish law was declared as quite different as the people were sovereign and their monarchs were the defenders of the sovereign people of Scotland’s sovereignty.

      Since 1603 the Kingdom of England’s crown rested upon the same person’s head as that of the Kingdom of Scotland. So when the English Parliament deposed their monarch and imported the foreign King Billy & Queen Mary as their new monarchs they had some big problems.

      The first one being English law held that Kings were appointed by the divine power of God Almighty and thus to depose a king was to oppose God’s will.

      The second was that the Kingdom of England would then be at odds with the Pope as Head of Christendom and thus opposed by the rest of Europe.

      The third was that the monarchy they were about to depose was also the still independent monarch of Scotland,

      To get round these problems they decided to only promise the crown of England to William & Mary if they agreed to delegate their sovereign, God Given, Devine Right to the Parliament of England. This meant that the three country Kingdom of England became a, “Constitutional Monarchy”, and thus they were still sovereign but the divine right of the Kingdom of England was exercised by the Parliament of England.

      This began what England still calls, “The Jacobite Rebellion”, but which is a total lie as Scotland, in 1688 was still an independent Kingdom and you cannot rebel against a monarch not your own.

      However, English law holds that, “A sovereign, simply by being sovereign, cannot renounce their sovereignty as sovereignty is appointed by God and thus is God’s will.

      Yet they had no qualms about claiming the independent Scots monarch was also deposed by deposing the monarchy of England. Note they were still fighting the Jacobite uprisings at Culloden in 1745 – nearly 40 years after the Treaty of Union was forced upon Scotland.

      Yet that treaty agreed Scots Law remained independent of English law as the two could not be reconciles. You cannot have a sovereign monarchy and a sovereign people together in the same legal system.

      So just how does Westminster, delegated the sovereignty of a still sovereign monarch manage to gain sovereignty over a nation that are sovereign?

      There are no documentary proofs of how, when or where the Queen of England has ever had sovereignty over the people of Scotland. Because the two things just cannot co-exist.

      Just as they claim that Scotland is leaving a United Kingdom and thus leaving behind an rUnited Kingdom. As there are only two signatory Kingdoms to the Treaty of Union it is a bi-partite union and when any bi-partite union splits up the Status Quo Ante is that BOTH former partners revert to the pre-partnership status.

      No such thing as a remaining United Kingdom can exist with only one signatory kingdom.

      It is all total bullshit and yet there are still more Scots who just accept the Establishments daft claims – I doubt that any such claims would survive an international court case.

    139. Scott says:

      Press and Journal readers say they do not want second independence referendum

      If you read on it is only the people on the letters page who was involved and we know that they only print mainly those who are anti SNP

    140. Ruby says:

      Capella says:
      25 June, 2016 at 12:33 pm

      Good letter spotted in the Times today

      <Ruby replies
      Excellent! 🙂

      Sir, It is now surely unthinkable that we can continue to call our country the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The only thing uniting us is our currency. Perhaps Poundland would be more appropriate. David Jones London W11

    141. Paula Rose says:

      Seeing as how the UK is going to cease perhaps we could be magnanimous and let the rUK use the word “Britain” for their new little country.

    142. John H. says:

      Lord Hill, UK European Commisioner resigns (kicked out) this morning. Europe demanding a new prime minister within days. Nicola Sturgeon in talks with Europe about Scotland’s continuing membership of the EU.

      I get the feeling that Indyref 2 will be a formality.

      Petra, I’m beginning to believe in astrology. 🙂

    143. G says:

      @Robert Louis.

      Well said, and not forgetting the huge number of EU citizens working in higher education. I think Edinburgh will see a big increase in support for Yes.

    144. K1 says:

      Tam,

      ‘A petition launched by the Scottish Greens, calling on MSPs to “exhaust every option” to keep Scotland in the EU proved so popular it crashed the party’s website.
      In a clear show of support for Ms Sturgeon, Greens leader Patrick Harvie said a referendum “must be on the table”.

      He added: “The reality is that we have an EU vote that does not reflect Scotland’s wishes and our voice must be heard.”

      http://archive.is/2uENS

    145. muttley79 says:

      Out of the clusterfuck of all clusterfucks that was the EU referendum one thing seems certain: there should be no ‘we told you so’ from those of us who voted Yes in September 2014. That will just put people off, plus it can come across as veering towards the obnoxious. We need more support to achieve independence, so there is no point in being angry/rude to those who voted No to independence 20 or so months ago. We have to encourage people to support independence; that was true before the independence referendum, and it remains true after the EU referendum.

    146. Les Wilson says:

      I think that Indy ref2 will be largely left to the enlarged team at the Scottish office, and the media.
      With directives from London.

      Make no mistake, this is our best chance of winning. Many UK departments that focused on last ref will now be up to their eyes in EU stuff, few will be spared for ant Scottish stuff.

      Propaganda will be in place of course, by the usual suspects.I heard some expert say ” we beat it before with scare tactics, we can do so again!”
      He went on to find the weak points ie price of oil, currency, borders, etc etc. We need to make sure that these issues are dealt with correctly.

      It will also be a benefit to us that the “Treasury” will be mired in work trying to sort out the Brexit stuff with the EU. They do not have the manpower to deal with everything.

      This may be the biggest chance we will every have. Careful inclusion of previous no’s, and a big activist campaign could swing it this time. All yes groups need to throw away petty differences and work together. We need some good new slogans too, taking in our EU future.Then we win.

    147. K1 says:

      As someone on Twitter just said:

      ‘Well played Spain’

      https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cly4jJvWMAAy4II.jpg

    148. Les Wilson says:

      Any news about a surge in SNP membership? Heard rumors but no official comments.

    149. Vestas says:

      I’ve been sitting here musing on whether an indyref2 is actually required.

      Technically it could be argued that the EU referendum gives Sturgeon a mandate to prevent Scotland leaving the EU at all costs.

      She seems to be taking that viewpoint & I’m wondering what would happen if the EU members said they’d immediately recognise Scotland as a “new state”. If the whole of Europe recognises Scotland then its a done deal, even if no indyref2 took place.

      Politically it’d be difficult but its clear that once again the forces of the English state will be fully deployed in “Project Fear #3” for indyref2 so it’ll be difficult anyway. There will be a large proportion of loyalist scum who won’t accept the result of any indyref so the backlash (if any) is likely to be the same.

      The legislation for indyref2 needs to be in place anyway but lets say Sturgeon got written guarantees about both recognition & continuing membership of the EU. Do we think it’d be possible at that stage to have a UDI?

      I get the feeling that Sturgeon is looking at indyref2 as a last resort so I can’t help wondering what her Plan A is.

      Oh to be a fly on the wall 🙂

    150. Valerie says:

      @Les Wilson

      I posted that 12.35

    151. cearc says:

      Belfast’s central post office has run out of Irish passport application forms!

    152. Capella says:

      @ Ruby Aye the wits are out in force today. I’m enjoying the fall-out. That New Yorker front page was a cracker too. Very noisy debate on Q Time radio right now. Once the Brexiteers have sobered up the sight of a trashed system will shock on them.

    153. Dr Jim says:

      @Les Wilson

      1500 new members in the last 24 hours according to all the usual sources, but not up on the website yet

      I expect Peter Murrell’s a wee bit up to his oxters in it at the moment

    154. heedtracker says:

      Brexit recession forecasts Wall Street, from rule britnatia rancid The Graun, who were also shit on EU membership, naval gazing, anti Scottish democracy, establishment tories

      “Brexit panic wipes $2 trillion off world markets – as it happened
      World markets have slumped in Europe, America and Asia, as economists predict that Brexit vote will push UK into recession

      Moody’s puts UK on negative outlook
      Wall Street suffers biggest fall in 10 months
      European markets battered after Brexit vote
      Bank of England pledges £250bn liquidity
      Pound hit 31-year low this morning”

    155. Geeo@10.15

      I prefer the lyrics from Jethro Tully song Broadsword

      I see a dark sail on the horizon set under a black cloud that hides the sun.
      Bring me my Broadsword and clear understanding….

      Look it up it’s a fantastic song

    156. mealer says:

      I think Scotland will stay in the EU.And the UK.We will obviously need our own tax system and our own currency,probably a Scots pound pegged half way between the Euro and the pound sterling.We would also need a veto over UK foreign and defence policy.Its the best of both worlds,Ruth.Whats not to like? The EU will give us assistance in making this happen.No further referendums required.If the UK Parliament isn’t happy with the arrangement they can vote Scotland out of the UK any day they like.

    157. Petra says:

      John H. at 1:17pm says …. “Petra I’m beginning to believe in astrology.”

      Well John I hate to say it (NOT, lol) but I (and other more prestigious astrologers) said it would be a Brexit when it seemed most unlikely. Next prediction Independence by late 2018 / early 2019. Independence Day 24th March 2019?

      And on the subject of astrology JKR is an astrologer too who has been dealing with some VERY challenging aspects to the planets in her natal chart. This may have culminated in (enlightenment) her change of heart and her public comments to that effect. She didn’t need to do this. Just kept quiet about it and voted yes on the day. So I commend her for the action she’s taken in relation to this. Not too happy about other aspects of her behaviour however we may find that they get ‘toned down’ too now.

      She’s on our side now and one wonders what her Unionist friends think about this such as journalists?

      Will she donate £1 million to the SNP?

      Will she join the SNP?

      Will the Daily Record and other rags report on her so frequently now?

      Will she buy millions of wee Black Books and distribute one to every household in Scotland?

      Will she post information on Twitter to her millions of followers about the McCrone Report, our stolen seas, stolen oil fields, depopulation of Scotland, our many assets and so on?

      I say if she wants to fulfill her destiny, as outlined in her chart, she should at least carry out the last two items on that list and get the TRUTH out there now. …. ASAP.

    158. You have to hand it to the English, given the chance to grab back their sovereignty they garbed it with both hand.

    159. K1 says:

      But they didn’t ‘grab’ anything. They will be left ‘gasping’ by their chosen leaders…they have quite literally been sold down the river and have now voted for an austerity rampant, right wing cabal on stilts who will crush them with the sound of ‘Land of Hope and Glory’ playing on an old gramophone in the background.

      This is a tragedy for the English, for England. They have my deepest sympathies.

    160. mogabee says:

      The English were handed a load of bull. They will find out now.

      They have my sympathies..

    161. sandycraig says:

      Some of the youngsters interviewed on Sky news were disappointed that the older generation who voted to leave did not consider them.

      I think that feeling will be the same in Scotland’s youth today.

      They are different from us older ones, they are mixing with more nationalities than we ever have done. They travel widely and integrate more easily than we ever could. That would have been a big step for some of us but they just take it in their stride, and I think that is a good thing.

      They are also much more engaged about politics than I was at that age, and not so gullible to take in the propaganda of the media. They have access to all electronic devices to get the true story.

      Maybe another referendum will come too quick, but I think within 3yrs would be fine.

      Brilliant cartoon as well as long as Hamish minds to take the hip flask with him.

    162. Breeks says:

      After the UK exits Europe, and hopefully Scotland remains, there will be 440 million people in the EU, and just 11 million of them will speak English as a native language. That’s us and the Irish. (And profuse apologies to those of you who’s native tongue is Gaelic, no slur intended).

      I’m not sure how important language is in the modern world where it concerns modern business and commerce, probably not vital, but if it is important, then the English speaking “Celtic Gateway” into Europe might require some significant investment in its ports and airports and infrastructure in the not too distant future.

      Just sayin’…..

      Sorry Berwick.

    163. Croompenstein says:

      Abandon ship, abandon ship..

      Just sail past that old cnut Sillars spouting pish from the deck of the f*in ‘Robert Burns’

    164. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

      There isn’t a hope in hell of any of that happening.

    165. Cadogan Enright says:

      Irish Times leading article today described Brexiters as a drunk man approaching the table determined to show everyone how to pull the table cloth out with a ‘snap’ without disturbing anything on the table

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 25 June, 2016 at 2:35 pm:

      “After the UK exits Europe, and hopefully Scotland remains”

      Err! No! Breeks. If Scotland doesn’t exit Europe and the rest of ” there will be 440 million people in the EU, and just 11 million of them will speak English as a native language. That’s us and the Irish. (And profuse apologies to those of you who’s native tongue is Gaelic, no slur intended).

      I’m not sure how important language is in the modern world where it concerns modern business and commerce, probably not vital, but if it is important, then the English speaking “Celtic Gateway” into Europe might require some significant investment in its ports and airports and infrastructure in the not too distant future.

    167. Robert Peffers says:

      @Breeks says: 25 June, 2016 at 2:35 pm:

      “After the UK exits Europe, and hopefully Scotland remains, … “.

      Yes, Breeks but if Scotland remains in Europe while the rest of THE FORMER United Kingdom pulls out then they return to being what they were before signing up with only the Kingdom of Scotland to form the United Kingdom.

      That is, what parts remain of the former UK will become what all bi-partite unions become. They legally return to what is called, “The Status Quo Ante”.

      The Status Quo Ante of a split up of the only two Kingdoms that signed the treaty of union is a return to an independent Kingdom of Scotland and an, also independent, three country Kingdom of England.

      You just cannot still have one partner of a two party marriage still married while their former partner is divorced from them. The UK will have ended and the parts not the Scottish Kingdom will obviously all be in the Kingdom of England.

      That is unless the Northern Irish follow Scotland’s lead, but that might be a little more complex. NI opted to leave the former country of Ireland and remain as part of the existing United Kingdom. Their Status Quo Ante would thus be as a part of the Republic of Ireland.

      Mind you they were only that for a matter of hours before opting to remain part of the United Kingdom.

    168. Mick DIAMOND says:

      There must be no long winded drawn out indy ref 2. Strike while the iron is hot. A date set no later than six months from the agreed date, Not two years or so down the line.for those msm and ebc scum to grind people down with their lies and project fear2.

    169. Mick DIAMOND says:

      If the eu say that scotland can remain a member, now that england are leaving. With hindsight why would we really need a referendum?. We’ve just had one. What robert peffers says makes sense.

    170. cearc says:

      It’s a good job little englanders don’t read the international press. I am sure that they would be quite distressed to find out how the world views their great and glorious country.

    171. ewen says:

      The SG has a mandate from 62% of the Scottish electorate to stay in the EU. Do we need another referendum?

    172. geeo says:

      Apparently the brexiteers have legal issues concerning their new name for their soon to be deserted by Scotland and maybe N.Irish, new nation.

      Former
      Colonial
      United
      Kingdom
      …..
      The new FCUK (pending legal challenge) has been deemed as a hammer blow to terrorism, a spokesman said, the terrorists will not know what flag to burn in the streets after brexit and Scottish indy is confirmed, as yon butchers thing will no longer be anything to do with us….that should keep us safe…..

    173. cearc says:

      geeo,

      Well I guess it’s a toss up between South Britain and Lesser Britain. Can’t see them going for Little Britain somehow!

    174. ewen says:

      Should these Engurlunders be allowed to vote?

      So many seem to have voted leave as a protest vote or with the expectation that remain would win.
      We can’t stay with these fuckwits.

      Then there are the pontifications online. They comment that us sweaties wouldn’t be allowed in the EU…we we are wanting to stay in. We cant afford to leave the UK….. we are a rich region of the UK. They haven’t a clue.

      Then there are the eejits wondering about roaming, duty free, etc etc this summer. Did they know what they were voting for?

    175. Rob James says:

      @ Capella

      “Poundland” sounds about right. Cheap and Nasty.

    176. robertknight says:

      I wonder if the über-tight result in Moray was down to Kinloss Barracks and RAF Lossiemoth service personnel?

      I also wonder if bears s**t in the woods?

    177. ann says:

      Listened to what some of the leavers said on SKY news earlier on and one he said that he “Voted to leave, but didn’t think that we would have to leave the EU!!!!!!” DoH!

    178. cearc says:

      ann,

      Some of the interviews that I’ve seen really makes one question whether universal suffrage was such a good idea.

    179. Epiphyta says:

      I’ve had to temporarily quit a UK discussion forum: most of the members voted to leave the EU, and they’re going on about “anyone losing work was paid too much anyway”.

      Well, that’s grand. Meanwhile, one of my mates has just heard his EU-funded research grant at an English uni won’t be renewed; he had an offer from St. Andrews two weeks ago, and is calling to tell them he’ll take it. My spouse’s former employer is based in London, and they’re not staying — might go to Dublin, would prefer to go to Edinburgh — so some of his friends might be entering this jolly adventure whilst looking for work. In the course of that discussion, a woman mentioned that her mum was born in Belfast; she was immediately encouraged to get an Irish passport for herself and her children, and as she and her husband know their fields are going to be hard hit, they’ve started looking north as well.

      So that’s at least 6 well-educated, productive members of society and their families (and possibly one FTSE 500 company) headed your way; make them welcome, won’t you?

    180. yesindyref2 says:

      @reobertknight
      From the P&J: “The Leave group added that their effort was most robustly supported by the area’s coastal communities.

      Reckoned to be Fishing mostly.

    181. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I’m truly sorry for you all, Epiphyta, it was a triumph of the stupid aligned with the truly mendacious.

      This was the revenge of the English disposessed. If they can’t have a decent life, they are at least willing to ensure that no-one else does either. A kind of least-common-denominator “we’re all in (the sh)it together”.

      Maybe people (including JRRT down there in York) now have a better understanding of the reason why Carmichael was rightly challenged for his misbehaviour during the indyref. It seems the lesson is only being learnt the hard way. By a very hard way.

      As to your friends, come on up and join us. Glad to have you. Scotland is going to be /the/ place to be very soon indeed!



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