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Wings Over Scotland


Let them eat contempt

Posted on July 01, 2014 by

There’s a strange phenomenon at the heart of Scottish politics, and it runs far deeper than the independence referendum. It’s summed up pretty well in this image.

kwiles1a

The picture and the comment alongside come from the Facebook page of Labour’s newest Parliamentary candidate, Kathy Wiles. They were made more than two months ago, so you’d imagine that any selection committee worth even a quarter of a damn would have checked her out enough to have a look at her social-media accounts and see if she might have said – or be likely to say in future – anything stupid.

But the thing is, we’re sure they did. Because as far as Scottish Labour as concerned, calling “most” of the voters of the most popular party in the country a bunch of workshy scroungers only interested in claiming benefits isn’t even a gaffe. It’s pretty much the official policy position.

You’ll never hear the SNP attacking the voters of any of the Unionist parties. You’ll hear plenty about them reaching out to Labour voters in particular, telling them that they share their values and can help to implement them in an independent Scotland, or even that an independent Scotland would enable them to elect a Labour government.

Whether you doubt the sincerity of such pleas or not isn’t the point. The point is that the Nats’ approach to the voters of other parties is to try to win them over, not insult them. But the UK parties, and again Labour in particular, think that the best way to win elections when you’re way behind in the polls is to call everyone who doesn’t vote for you a moron, or a bully, or a racist, or a Nazi.

smartpp

Note that most of these comments and the countless others like them aren’t directed at the SNP itself, but at ordinary Scots, many of whom will have been Labour voters in the past. And they don’t come from anonymous internet nutters, but often from some of the party’s most senior figures. Their sheer loathing of an electorate that’s had the temerity to vote for someone else seethes from every word.

KW2

Perhaps in the case of Kathy Wiles, Labour figured it didn’t matter how much of an abusive imbecile she was, because with the party in a distant 3rd place in the Angus seat she’s been selected for she’s a no-hoper anyway. Maybe they didn’t want to waste any of their sparse talent on a seat they had no realistic chance of winning, and just stuck a pin in the local membership list.  Maybe she was the only applicant.

But whichever it is, it’s a strange way to try to win hearts and minds.

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148 to “Let them eat contempt”

  1. DougtheDug says:

    Here’s another one from good socialist Kathy from two of her only two comments on the disqus system.

    http://disqus.com/kathy_wiles/

    It’s in the second comment if you scroll down. (My bold):

    “What has become clear from other questions that have been asked during polling exercises is that those reliant on benefits (but not pensioners) believe that they will be better off under independence, while those working believe that they will be worse off- in other words working households feel they will be required to foot the bill for the SNP’s left-wing welfare policies.

  2. heedtracker says:

    Completely unelected Lord for life Forsyth on tonight’s tv debate tried to use this all of us and them intimidation threat aswell, all of us in teamGB and the others voting yes to smash this 300 most successful marriage guff. It was like watching Forsyth fail his Hammer House of Horror audition but its a very nasty tactic all the same and its why they are now shouting nazi at children.

  3. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “in other words working households feel they will be required to foot the bill for the SNP’s left-wing welfare policies.”

    Wow. Feel the Labour candidate’s distaste for “left-wing” policies.

  4. Defo says:

    That’s chocolate, on the plate in front of Slabs new troughee, isn’t it ?

  5. I think …. I think – it is no coincidence that the SNP office was tarred w a Swastika.
    I am bemused that the GIRFEC system w. the named individual there to protect and oversee the interests of the child and to ensure that services are coordinated (the same role every Headteacher has always performed [the child support liaison], to some degree, minus the coordination of services) is being seen as child snooping. [On a personal level, if this system had been in place and adhered to in the school my son attended in the Local (Labour) Local Authority in which we used to live, he would not have spent most of the last three years un-educated, part-time time-tables and I would have been able to keep my job(s) <kept trying and having to leave].

    If this woman has worked in Education for 15 years (I read) it shows a pitiful lack of understanding. But then she thinks all benefit claimants are scroungers: not lone parents, perhaps of children with signifcant Additional Support Needs who cannot access education full-time, or parents who cannot find appropriate affordable childcare for their child.

    Bateman was talking of how Scottish Labour was once the party of protests, of opposition, of Scargill and Foot: what has happened to the Left. It needs to reemerge in this time of benefit cuts (which Labour will not reverse) and where the establishment is selling off common ground to its fat cats who will line their pockets, and housing estates sold en masse to exploitative private Landlords (whose pockets lined by housing benefit-fulfilled rent).

    /rant

  6. Chic McGregor says:

    Here’s a grammar lesson for her. ‘Independence’ is the antonym of ‘Dependence’.

  7. Gary says:

    The good thing about the length of this campaign is that it gives time and encouragement to the electorate to access views, opinion and fact from all sides. The downside is that it gives greater opportunity to the dirty political machinations of the Better Together group supported, of course, by Her Majesty’s Government. We have two and a half months to go and the dirt is already sickening. This has been a sad episode for democracy, God help us if we don’t win this.

  8. Defo says:

    Re “vote for me, I despise you”, Yup, that’s exactly what yon coupon is saying to me. Bitter.

  9. Grouse Beater says:

    The cynicism of Labour is limitless.

    The choice of Kathy Wiles is, in my opinion, as daft as Miliband for leader.

    Labour’s attack on the poor and the vulnerable, the very people who thought Labour represented them, is pitiful. How long does it take a Labour voter to perceive he is disenfranchised? How long before they realise Labour is just another party of business, corporate and global?

    Can a confirmed Labour voter see past the cruelties and stupidities of their party’s regressive policies and vote for their country, or will they continue to spit on the SNP for daring to empower them?

    I see The Times has a front page claiming voters are falling away from independence. Amazing. Weeks to go and they make that claim at this stage.

    Holding fast to the banality of statistics as a national topic keeps the population from asking the really important questions, such as:

    What powers should Scotland have to help it meet the challenges of the new century?

  10. Les Wilson says:

    All this Nazi stuff is just the same kind of propaganda used by Putin and his cohorts in the Ukraine recently.
    I guess Labour are constantly watching for even more tips.

    Labour IS the most deceitful party, no depths to which they will not sink.

    Labour? NO THANKS! er, ever again.

  11. Defo says:

    Teacher, “And what did you do over the holidays” ?

    “We were racially abused by Scottish Labours ex new candidate for Angus miss, daddy called her a rude name afterwards”

    “Miss. What’s a munter ?

    For our younger readers..

    http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=munter

  12. Mary Bruce says:

    “The poorly educated and inner cities will be Salmond’s targets”

    Shouldn’t these be Labour’s target areas? Oops, I forgot, abandoned long ago…

  13. Lesley-Anne says:

    I have just had an “outside the box” thinking moment thingy here. 😉

    I wonder if Labour realise that they have absolutely NO chance of winning in Angus at next year’s General Election and are therefore putting her up as their candidate cause they know she’ll lose. This is being used by Labour as a *ahem* training exercise for her so that come the 2020 General Election she can be parachuted into a definitive certainty in central Glasgow.

    Don’t worry folks I’m not losing it, well maybe I am but that’s another story. I think Labour are still in denial about losing the referendum so are *cough* planning for a return to power in 2020 at Westminster. I think they call it their long term strategy. 😛

  14. @GARY – Yes aspects of the debate have been shameful. A mixture of twas ever thus (I remember the antipathy on a personal not a philosophical/PPE level towards SNP from Labour) and the internet where access is open and a click a gey easy to insult someone while seemingly being anon.

    The former fear, the latter glaikit cowardice…sometimes more one than the other.

    And yet there has been as Lesley Riddoch pointed out in her podcast/Scotsman column today an awakening (begun with the Scottish Dawn) and democtratising and politicising and a huge new level of engagement of all people of all ages. In stark contrast to the Euro Elections. This matters. People know this matters.

    And yet, yes, nasty: but the very reason it could become so nasty so quickly (in picturea and words), and that nastiness go viral and be exposed was the very means that democratised the debate and made it accessible: the internet.

    The taste for public meetings (hustings) had gone but YouTube repiqued it. The taste for Demos and Sit-Ins was one of acid-reflux of the 80s, but T-in-the-Park and such like, influenced the terms of engagement and revitalised it. There is a joy in this debate, that quickens the poitical soul. The internet has allowed engagement by the people on their own terms….the anytime, any place, anywhere that Campbell promised and renegued. The shift-worker and the single parent can engage. And the festival-nature of events (some) means the family can come along.

    Marx never intended for Russia to be the trial ground for his Communism. It was not the right point in history or industrialisation. As previous times were not right for democratic debate and engagmeent, now – with Social Media – honest engagement becomes possible. Now, with Common Weal and the chance to wipe things clean, begin again, might also be the time for government at the level of community: true democracy, true empowerment, true sharing of resources from haves to have nots.

    While John MacLean might turn in his grave at what the political movement he went to prison for, has become, so might he be calmed, refreshed able to rest in peace at the growing democracy – the taking back of power, mm by mm. Scotland will rise again. Vote Yes.

  15. Grouse Beater says:

    All this Nazi stuff

    The abuse might be the desperate last stand of the loser but I am getting thoroughly fed up seeing it sustained.

    I had a run in with a troll on Bella’s site the other day when it posted a letter from a concerned parent attending Graduation Day at St Andrews University. A reprehensible passage within a boring speech from a lecturer to students on their graduation – a speech that ought to have been student-centric – deigned to tell students what to think.

    It included a gratuitous remark about what the speaker described as a fear of the ‘rise of European nationalism’ and linked it by association with civic pride and power in Scotland. (Sadly Bella’s site demands a genteel tone of discussion often at odds with the topic, and indeed with the times.) I waited patiently for the moderator to tell the troll to f-off, but no such luck. He was given freedom to run amock.

    The troll, called ‘Douglas,’ (“Duggie?”) defended the good lecturer to the hilt, as did a few others who appeared from nowhere like fleas in a bed, to assume the role of unpaid apologist.

    What principles do these people hold if they can’t condemn some nonentity christening empowerment as neo-fascism?

  16. Democracy Reborn says:

    I kid you not, Wiles’s quotes would not be out of place on the right wing of the US Republican Party.

    For anyone who’s watched Fox News, their right-wing nutjob presenter Bill O’Reilly (he makes Cameron look moderate) stated on the night of the 2012 presidential election that Obama won because the voters wanted “stuff” & “things” (ie. in his mind, freebies). In other words, the Republicans were trumped by a Democrat who was willing to use public money to stimulate the economy to create jobs, & spend on welfare to help the disadvantaged. Anyone see the similarities with our Kath?….

    My god, is this what the modern Labour Party has come to?

  17. Taranaich says:

    I’m still thoroughly sickened that my friend is on these wretched peoples’ side. He’s a good, generous, honest, kind person, yet he’s on the same side as the Conservatives, New Labour, UKIP, BNP, EDL, Orange Order, Britain First, huge businesses, Ian Taylor. Who’s the worst Yes has, Brian Souter? Tommy Sheridan?

    It sickens my heart. I just know there are others like him taken in by this. And the idea that he thinks exactly that of me – that I’m a good, generous, honest, kind person who’s been taken in by those horrible racist xenophobic Nats. How could he possibly align himself with people who regularly compare another group of peaceful individuals with the Hitler Youth, Nazis, Kim Jong-Il, and so forth, unless he truly believes it? I’m starting to lose hope that the scales will ever fall from his eyes, and that tears my guts out – not that he isn’t another “win” for Yes, but that he can’t see the evidence before him.

    God’s sake, I need a drink. Peppermint cordial will do nicely.

  18. Patrician says:

    I posted this on the previous thread, “Smear ’em young” but it looks like everyone has moved here. It does have some relevance to the discussion about Ms Wiles:

    Well here goes, my bit about what happened yesterday, I am the ugly looking guy on the left (as you look at the picture) holding the wings banner, ronnie anderson is the cool guy on the right 🙂 more photos here: http://imgur.com/a/Qz92L#0

    To give some background to what happened. We were originally at the back of the crowd with a small table with various stickers and campaign materials, closer to the Science centre than the BBC building. We had lots of visitors there to sign the other banner. After some time ronnie suggested taking the unsigned banner for a walk around the crowd. We moved about for a couple of minutes, people were smiling at the banner and we were getting some banter. I then said to ronnie lets take this up to the front steps for a couple of minutes to let everyone see the banner. (we were still there almost 2 hours later).

    When we got up the steps and opened the banner, it all went a bit mental. It looked like most of the crowd turned to start taking photographs. My wife couldn’t actually get through the crowd in front of us for about 5 minutes.

    The young kids in the picture above came over to us and posed in front of the banner. I didn’t see anyone coerce them or push them into place. It was a completely spontaneous event as there was no planning for this. Five minutes before we arrived no one knew we would be on the steps, not even myself or ronnie knew this. The kids were a credit to their parents and grand parents, all of them polite and well mannered. Lots of other people came up to get their photo taken under the terrible cybernats banner and also to meet the pandas. We also had so many messages of support and friendship.

    There are so many people out there that see this site as their only place to get the info for the converations they have day in and day out. I know the google numbers show the high numbers of visitors this site gets, but PQ2 and Yes in the Park a couple of weeks ago really gave me some idea of how important this site is. Rev, everyone asks after you so I think you need to get yourself up sometime soon.

    I would just like to say thank you to everyone I met yesterday, there were too many to mention and I have a terrible memory for names, you made it a truly brilliant day.

  19. Colin Mccartney says:

    Kathy Wiles, Jackie Baillie, Johan Lamentable , is there a secret factory churning them out from mould made by Frankenstein and Jabba the Hutt? it needs closed down cos it’s scaring the kids.

  20. Luke says:

    This is Wiles’ FB group for the 2015 campaign. Currently it’s open to view the content.

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/1501509853398053/

  21. macart763m says:

    @Taranaich

    Couldn’t agree more.

    These people have gone too far. They bandy terms like nazi, xenophobe or racist about like plastic swords in their stupid political games. They have no idea, no concept of what they are doing, the pain and suffering they are glossing over in search of a point scoring smear. They are aware its a bad word, an insult, something to use in their ‘race to the bottom’ of the political sewer.

    Perhaps a visit to a book or the history channel might remind them of the horrors of WWII and THIS is what they are comparing the Scottish Government and the YES campaign to? In search of what? What could be worth that kind of smear, that kind of naked hatred?

    Their behaviour both before and during this campaign has been appalling and this is why they no longer hold office. Until they learn this most vital lesson its why they’ll remain out of office. If they hold half the electorate in such contempt as human beings, they may also wish to reflect on just why they wish to represent anyone at all?

  22. joe kane says:

    It was the last Labour Government that started the “Benefit Thieves” campaign aimed at stigmatising and demonising people who claimed welfare benefits.

    I have a copy of a single page leaflet from August 2007 that was sent through the doors of residents in the Labour run North Lanarkshire Council area. It was a collaborative effort with the DWP entitled “Risking It All…In North Lanarkshire”. It contains such charmingly entitled articles as ‘Benefit Thieves in North Lanarkshire, your number’s up’, ‘Live-in Liars’ and ‘Benefit Thieves being shopped by neighbours’.

    As most people will know by now, benefit fraud amounts to less than 1% of the DWP budget and is less than that lost by the department due to its own internal errors and inefficiencies. Benefits that go unclaimed by people who are legally entitled to them, usually because they are too afraid to apply for help in case they get accused of being scroungers, dwarfs that lost to fraud. The Labour Party knew all that yet deliberately chose to begin stigmatising the weak and the powerless.

    In one of the first major important speeches of his leadership, Miliband at his first annual national party conference as leader denounced a disabled man he’d never met in his life as a fraud and and a parasite within the first few sentences, such was his eagerness to stick the knife in the backs of the poorest and most vulnerable people in our community. He’s yet to apologise to disabled people.

    Ed Miliband responsibility speech in full
    13 June2011

  23. joe kane says:

    It now seems that the anti-welfare propaganda the Labour Party invented when in government to stigmatise and demonise the poor and the weak is now being deployed against its direct political enemies.

    Given that the poor are the worst sort imaginable to Labour apparatchiks, associated as the poor are with their political opponents, does this mean then that Labour are now the party of the rich and well-off?

  24. lochside says:

    Kathy Viles: definition:
    stout defender of verbally abusing innocent weans. Chocolate noshing hypocritical holocaust demeaning cretin. Hater of welfare recipients. Natural SLAB candidate.

  25. john king says:

    email sent to the principle of Saint Andrews University

    The disgraceful address by Dr Bettina Bildhauer at a recent Graduation ceremony where she conflated the aspirations of a nation to be akin to Nazism was deeply deeply offensive to me and to the country which is this Dr’s home,
    if she does not understand the desire for self government in Scotland she would be well advised to avoid comment because all she has done is to insult a great many decent people,
    You may well wish to consider this persons suitability for the post she inhabits as comments such as hers only inflame a population already confused by the deliberate fog being created by the main stream media and of course the main culprit in the stifling of reasonable discourse THE BBC and consider a more conciliatory approach, as when a great many of her students will return home to their own countries but the indigenous students will remain, subject to such disgusting misrepresentation as this which is reprehensible .

    A public apology and resignation of this person will suffice.

  26. thoughtsofascot says:

    @macart763m

    Oh, they know full well the history behind those words, no doubt about it. Its more along the lines of they don’t care. Its all or nothing for them

    Not a christian by any means, but it does remind me of that story of Solomon and the baby. They’ll stop at nothing to get the result they want. They’ll use everything in their arsenal, even if it means dividing the country, in the hope that it will scare us all into backing down and saying, enough is enough, we care too much to see it reduced to the ashes.

    The only problem here is that they don’t seem to be able to grasp is that that is the way the UK is headed anyway – the trash heap of the world. This is the only way to save our country. If it means having to put up with the constant attacks from the ignorant and the crazy, so be it. We will win this. We have no other choice but that.

  27. Paul says:

    I want to see Independence for Scotland so that must make me a Nationalist and I want Socialism also so that makes me a National Socialist and not a Nazi and if the illiterate Unionists would care to check Hitler and his Nazis hi jacked the National Socialist Party.

  28. thoughtsofascot says:

    No, that just makes you a social democrat.

  29. CameronB Brodie says:

    I wonder if Ms. Wiles is a Fabian socialist?

  30. Gizzit says:

    Actually, the tactics being used by the “established order” are the same as those against the Occupy movement, UK uncut and more recently the People’s Assembly.

    Smearing, denigration, manufacturing guilt by association. They are fighting “with every fibre they have”, and they are fighting dirty.

  31. donald anderson says:

    Jim Sillars told Michael Forsyth on last night’s YV debate that he is not the enemy, but an opponent. Fine, if you are part of the Westminster phoney debating club where there is no real difference in actual policies and they promise anything to get elected.

    Study the history of the British State against their “opponents” of National Liberation in the colonies. That includes the history if Scotland and Ireland, where you will see how they operate. No lie is too wee, too big, or too dirty for them and any dirty trick will do including the crimes of murder theft, starvation and division, to keep them in power and profit.

  32. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Wiles: Achieving an end by indirection or deviousness.

    Her political end, that is…

  33. Craig Patrick says:

    Good morning everyone,

    Please visit http://www.kirriemuirherald.co.uk/news/local-headlines/labour-announce-kathy-wiles-as-angus-candidate-1-3451999#comments-area

    Please visit and comment in the Kirrienuir Herald.

  34. Chipmonkey says:

    Just make sure we don’t also descend to the level of name calling.We need people to vote yes. It’s not a vote for the SNP, nor is it a vote for ‘Wings’. Don’t be distracted.

  35. Thepnr says:

    The No camp are pushing this abuse as their Project Fear campaign has failed. Unfortunately for Project Smear this tactic is just another damp squib guaranteed to backfire.

    Point out this typical view of the electorate by “New Labour” to any undecided traditional Labour supporter and watch the membership of LFI reach new heights. How dumb can you get?

  36. Iain Gray's Subway Lament says:

    Just another Thatcherite Blue Labour seat filler. There to make up the numbers and embarrass those labour supporters who still have some principles and decency with her bizarre and repulsive right-wing ‘views’.

    She sounds like she’d be right at home in Cameron’s government.

  37. James Sneddon says:

    Luke- Thanks for link to her FB page. Canvassing the people she considers scroungers. I notice there are no pictures of her actually interacting with members of the public only other party members. Mind you, as mentioned before Labour were in third place in Angus at the last election. So they’ll be competing with the other minority parties such as UKIP.

    Grousebeater- I saw the exchange you had on Bella with ‘Dug’ and the other apologists for self centered academics. The phrase ‘we had to destroy the village to save it’ springs to mind as a description of his ilk. No statement too venal or twisted to get at a point made by a YES supporter(as demonstrated by the examples in the above article)

  38. Fergus Green says:

    test

  39. R whittington says:

    Bloody BBC! Grrrrrrrrgh! I’m so angry with them! Grrrrrgh!

  40. Vestas says:

    @ Chipmonkey

    No need for “name calling” in this instance.

    Kathy Wiles abuses children online. End of story.

  41. heedtracker says:

    R whittington says:
    1 July, 2014 at 7:43 am
    Bloody BBC! Grrrrrrrrgh! I’m so angry with them! Grrrrrgh!

    Don’t be Dick. They just want the very best nukes n shit for teamGB so they have lots of reports to prove they’re right to monster Scotland day in day out, like the Guardian do do.

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/jul/01/trident-nuclear-missile-renewal-study

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28098583

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-28090352

    And thats what they call impartial media Dick.

  42. Clootie says:

    Those involved with YES are happy, positive and informed.
    Those supporting NO are grumpy, negative and ill informed.

    That sums up my experience to date.

    “You live in the world that you create”
    a simple choice without going into technical detail.

  43. R whittington says:

    If I could shake my head at the TV any more than I am doing I would. Grghhhhh. (Very angry!) I’m just thankful for organisations such as Wings telling us all the truth day in day out.

  44. Nigel says:

    As a misinformed Yes voter, I have decided to be ‘offended’. 😀

    After all, even though I am self-employed, do a tax return every year, pay my taxes and several bands of NI, I will, of course be dependent on benefits because I will be voting Yes and probably SNP again in 2016. Does this Kathy Wiles not appreciate that there are other and more compelling reasons to vote Yes and for the SNP? She and her party is one of them!

    http://nairnyes.wordpress.com/

  45. heedtracker says:

    R whittington says:
    1 July, 2014 at 8:00 am
    If I could shake my head at the TV any more

    Dont do it Dick. STV says Pippa Middleton is so sad at being center of attention of future queen sisters wedding to the most perfect man alive prince Wills and then a bloated liar from Westminster, Fozzie bear, says he likes whisky too.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-28087653

    Good old teamGB news

  46. Rod Robertson says:

    Keeping in mind the sentiments of the late Margo regarding all coming together on Sept19th no matter the result.
    I find myself increasingly struggling with that noble hope.
    I truly believe that only with a YES Vote is that possible.
    We all know that contrary to the MSM/Broadcasters narrative the bile and abuse comes mainly from the Unionist side .
    The above article and the previous one about the kids is proof enough of that.
    With victory, I feel sure our side is magnanamous enough to offer the hand of friendship to those that opposed our country’s independence ,such will be our joy.
    I believe that someone of Salmond’s stature ably assisted by Nicola can and will reach out to the unionists and include them in building the New Scotland.
    However in the event of a No the hatred and bile of our opponents towards the SNP and Yes supporters is such that it is almost certain they will offer no hand of friendship and will proceed in a hate filled natbashing bilefest.
    Never underestimate their hatred towards us ,we may hold them in contempt ,they truly hate us.
    We do not refer to all their supporters as Nazis ,any of their leaders as Hitler or Pol Pot etc.
    Their entire campaign ,based on lies and deceit is solely about crushing the SNP once and for all.
    Ian Davidson’s sentiments about bayonetting the wounded is exactly what they will attempt to do.
    A defeat will leave a bitterness in many of us and a feeling that a corrupt and dishonest MSM and broadcasters have cheated us out of our right.
    with a No the unionists like the said Kathy Wiles and her ilk will feel able to pour more of their vile sentiments on those of us not in the Unionist cabal.
    We all must do everything in our power to ensure a YES Vote ,for if not I truly believe Scotland will not be a country worth living in otherwise.

  47. Gary Moyes says:

    I remember the lovely Kathy Wiles from one of my early attempts to debate on the “Better To-Whatever” page. The reason I remember her is that her particular brand of nazi-labelling, name calling and abuse made her a real stand-out. Credit where it’s due though, it’s nice to see her step out from behind her keyboard. People deserve to see the level that Labour are prepared to stoop to in order to berate and belittle our citizens.

  48. Ken500 says:

    Scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    What about the postal vote elections, where it was ‘vote Labour or lose benefit’s. Illegal wars and tax evasion. Scotland has lost £Billions because of these failures. The need for food banks. People being sanctioned and walking for food is an absolute disgrace.

    Tax breaks for the wealthy. £20 a week tax breaks for average earners. ConDems Elected to protect NHS/Education and cut the debt. NHS/Education have been cut and the debt has risen. Scotland pays off debt it hasn’t borrowed or spent.

    The wealthiest have increased their wealth 15% in a year. 5 people own more than 20% of the population.

  49. seoc says:

    This Labour hopeful tells us all we need to know about that Party, clearly underlining just why the Union is beyond repair.

  50. Macart says:

    @thoughtsofascot

    “Its more along the lines of they don’t care.”

    I agree and THAT is why they are not fit to govern. THAT is why they are not fit for office.

    In fact they have no idea the duty of service and care required of those in the political arena toward their constituents. They’re too damn busy having a career.

    SERVICE and CARE.

    Anyone in the political arena who constantly denigrates or abuses their own electorate is not fit to serve the people. This is why we vote yes. This system, this style of politics needs to end. Perhaps it’ll focus some of those careerists minds when under popular sovereignty they are forced to accept that every person from every walk of life is their boss to whom they’ll be directly accountable. When under PR they are forced to operate more and more under a consensus politics system.

    If not? Then they shouldn’t let the door hit them in the arse as they leave Holyrood. We need representatives who CARE and are willing to SERVE, not maul their own people to make sure they keep in with their party line.

  51. R-type Grunt says:

    @ Taranaich

    Heads up! Your friend is not your friend.

    I see a certain Lesley Brennan is her friend. I recently had the opportunity to listen to Lesley ‘debate’. Incredible moronic nonsense. She also attempted a PowerPoint presentation without a projector. Are Microsoft aware of her?

  52. R whittington says:

    I’m so angry.

  53. galamcennalath says:

    Labour are disgusting, but you can understand where it’s coming from.

    Who is left to fight the NaeSayer corner?

    English politicians, Labour or Tories, can’t wade in. If they do they know it would be disasterous.

    There are few prominent Scottish Tories so they wheel out Forsyth et al.

    Ordinary Labour supporters are drifting to Yes or are soft Nos. Independence is not a threat to them. They have never been up for a fight.

    AND, that leaves the professional trougher class within Scottish Labour, and those who aspire to join them. This obnoxious group of individuals make a career out of ignoring the very people they are supposed to represent. They do so because they are in it for the power and money. Their motivation is nothing more than to climb the greasy pole of political reward. The more likely a Yes win becomes, the more desperate these people are becoming. They will say and do almost anything to keep their positions.

    However, consider, these people are the public face of the NaeSayers, then are not the driver behind it. For that you have to look to the Tories, the London elite, and the British State.

  54. Anne Lawrie says:

    Don’t know who Peter Wiles is, but this is from Kathy Wiles’ FB page: Peter Wiles: Throw a few cybernats under the rear wheels of the bus for better traction. They are only slippery when squished.
    24 June at 12:23 • Like

  55. Ellie says:

    Well I must say it’s a bit of a funny way to concede defeat in Angus, wouldn’t it have been cheaper just not to put up a candidate in the first place?

  56. ScottyC1314 says:

    Rev I was looking forward to reading all the links you posted from today’s papers covering this story….oh wait…

  57. Training Day says:

    Labour has always held the electorate in contempt. The only difference now is that people don’t vote for them, which of course merely serves to reinforce Labour’s contempt.

  58. YESGUY says:

    Now we all know that Labour are tory’s

    All we need to do is highlight this to all Labour voters.

    Let them see them for what they are.

    I read and commentated on your spat with Douglas(Dougie) GROUSEBEATER and thought the guy was a troll.I also thought Bella was a little sympathetic to let the rambling go on. Is there any length to which the BT/whatever they are now,will go.

    And now they abuse children and not a peep from the MSM.

    They have no positive argument for the union and are deflecting from the issues constantly abusing YES voters.

    I try and stick to the message of hope but it’s bloody hard work. I’m with R.Whittington , Angry , really angry. but if anyone shouts too loud from here, we’re the vile cybernats.

    I will never forgive them.

  59. JLT says:

    Seriously …where do they find these people? Surely when you interview someone for the job, you sit with them, ask questions, engage about their lifestyle, thoughts and ambitions.

    At some point, alarm bells should be ringing, especially when the person being interviewed denounces half the nation as Nazis, extremists, bullies and benefit scroungers. Yeah! Good going! Let’s trash 2 million Scots by denouncing them as delusional and extremist. That’ll win them over!

    Therefore, the only conclusion one can come to is that the whole Labour structure has been built on a theology of hard-core Labour principles which when reflected upon, are not even followed (‘we believe in Socialism, but are veering more to the far right with each passing day!!!’ – What???)

    I mean, seriously, if one of your mates said that half of Scotland was lazy and just scrounging on benefits, or everyone in Scotland hates the English, you would be quietly wondering how they got to thinking like that. I still believe that if Scotland votes ‘Yes’ that Labour for years will be in a civil war with itself as it tries to fight for its soul be getting rid of the old guard who are in every position, department, constituency.

    Labour won’t be fixed overnight just because Scotland voted ‘Yes’.

  60. Ken500 says:

    Benefits sanctions. It’s like the 1930’s. Why is this happening in Scotland in 2014? It is beyond belief. No doubt the Boss at the top will be getting bonuses depending on how much is sanctioned. It is appalling.

    Vote YES

  61. heedtracker says:

    R whittington says:
    1 July, 2014 at 8:28 am
    I’m so angry.

    Be happy Dick, Gerard Butler is on STV news and there’s a lovely story about how Australia’s is dealing with Rolf Harris although nothing whatsoever about how Sir Rolf was at the center of the BBC and how no one at the BBC had any idea Sir Rolf was a peado or Jimmy Saville or even why the BBC has so many peados on its books, eh Dick.

  62. Alt Clut says:

    Kathy is a perfect example of all that made the Labour party politically loathesome to me after 44 years of voter loyalty towards it and time as a Labour constituency chair and councillor in the 1980’s. Any progressive role that the party had in our history is long lost.

    For those who want a social democratic Scotland in the future a big YES majority is the way forward. Kathy plays her part by helping to keep up my campaigning energy and, when my 63 years old knees get sore with walking round doors, it will be easy to keep going when I remind myself that our victory on Setember 18th will help to consign Kathy and her like to the dustbin of history !

  63. Tam Jardine says:

    YESGUY

    Grouse Beater is a legend – the other guy is no worth mentioning. Ignore.

  64. HandandShrimp says:

    I know we all laughed at Lamont’s “something for nothing” speech and to be fair it outraged a lot of STUC Labour backers but this Kathy Wiles seems to be in a different league. It is almost as if she went in the wrong door and signed up for Labour when she really meant to join UKIP.

  65. Gillie says:

    She’s a TORY.

  66. ronnie anderson says:

    I got a bit distrackted Yesterday,I went offline to count the names on the Wings Banner ( still to be done )I ended up painting the banner poles & wood for the top x bar to dis play the banner better,I didnt get back on line till very late in the evening, it had taken me more than 2hrs to catch up, by witch time I was LIVID INCANDESANT WITH RAGE.

    I am more calm this morning, thats a( Calm Rage )thats a dangerious place for someone who is the focus of attention.

    As ( Jim ) Partician says at 1.58am.We dont work to any set script, we go with the flow as any Wingers will tell you,they can take part & often do,engageing with people
    in proximity to the Banner. We may start as a small team,but it takes its own course on the day,we move we adapt to for maximum impact,( as Ian Brotherhood a Winger a much Respected Winger ) Ian & his friend (another Winger ) doing his own thing with the SSP Banner
    then joined use on the steps. We were asked to do a Interview on camera ( short discussion with all Wingers around us ) Ian Brotherhood nominated ( democrecy in action ) & as the readers will see from the footage on the Vidio, he is more than competant in doing Interviews & as are the Other contributors from whatever faction they Represent ( Tammy Doffed to all Interviewes ) We ALL have a common cause,& traveling the same road.

    I entered this Grassroots Campain ( non political,I will leave it the same way. After Independence ) but as a father,g/father,gg/father & the future of Scotlands People, & Lorna Craig, Jacqui Ringrose,& Mum are doing the same thing ( Makeing the Future Better for their Family & Other Family,s ). Those Children ( Alexander & cousins )being vilified, I noticed there was no mention of the babies in arms haveing pictures taken ( what to sensative to use those babies to vilify,or its harder to vilify small babies ).

    Revenge is a dish best served Cold.
    Ms Wiles will see the Wings Over Scotland Banner ( UP CLOSE & PERSONAL & RANTING RAGEIN RONNIE IN YOUR FACE )sos REV, for stepping outwith CYBERNAT CONTROL CENTRES rules of engagment,& permissions dept,but this is exceptional circumstances.

    I will be looking to speak to Wingers from the Angus area( especialy )on Frid night,I dont need to draw a plan as to the Information I require about Ms WILES ( everything even her Inside Leg measurement if anybodys game enough ).

    I make no threats that wont be actioned
    MS WILES you have got my Dander up, this Winger will Shit on You from a Great hieght ( Seagulls have nothing on me when it comes to SHITTING ON YOU )be seeing You Soon.

  67. Training Day says:

    Oh, and on the YouGov poll..it should by now be obvious that a pitch is being rolled in order to justify a rigged referendum vote. The results of this poll contrast so sharply with what is being found in canvassing returns in my area that there can only be one purpose to the YouGov and other MSM polls – to construct a narrative in the run up to Sept 18th which ‘shows’ Yes always trailing, or indeed ‘falling away’.

    Anyone who thinks the Electoral Commission are going to buck the British state and run an impartial vote..well, I’ve some fresh air in a can to sell them.

  68. R whittington says:

    British Broadcasting Corporation .. More like the ‘Bad’ Broadcasting Corperation.

  69. Helena Brown says:

    Gillie, you are quite correct, she does not qualify to get on in the Tory Party, she doesn’t reside in the right country, she probably doesn’t have connections and she doesn’t speak right. Somebody here I think it was described the “lad of pairts” who finds out that there is an easy way of making money if all you can do is talk (Labour also have silent ones) and you join the Party and then you get to Westminster and make loads of money. These people are beyond contempt. Mean while those that elect them are treated like scum.

  70. Helena Brown says:

    Good on you Ronnie, I would be the same myself. This smug self satisfied face reminds me of Jackie Baillie who I would never tire of slapping (figuratively).

  71. BrianW says:

    Like my Primary Teacher used to say (usually in my direction)

    “There’s always one, isn’t there”..

    But on the Pro-Union side there seems to be a lot more than one that really don’t think before writing utter nonsense.

    Do they not get some form of media training in the art of not making a T*t of themselves. Luckily it would seem a few of them missed that course, and thank god, as it’s great seeing them destruct their political careers in public.

  72. YESGUY says:

    Tam Jardine

    I got that a long time ago.Sadly i am not educated to the level needed to debate these things too well , i tell it as i see it, but i re-read the piece and Grousebeaters comments were brilliant. He ended up arguing with more than one and i wish i could have contributed more , but to be fair G. was doing ok on his own.

    I came to Wings a soft No voter and learned so much from the pages , especially the comments and Now a solid YES. Nothing will change that.

    But i do worry that the abuse aimed at us is a co-ordinated attack. And i feel it’s purpose is to deflect from the real issues.

    Coming to Wings has gave me a voice. I am not alone . That’s a big deal you know. And an education to boot. I wear my wings badge with pride and always have something to say to naysayers.It’s the old soldier in me. I was taught to defend the defenceless . protect the innocent. You can take the man out of the army but not the army out of the man.
    I was very proud of this country once. Now i feel shame whenever the UK is mentioned. Their contempt to our people is a shock. I can’t believe what i hear these days.

    Thank God for Wings and it’s readers.

  73. R whittington says:

    Indeed.

  74. thoughtsofascot says:

    @JLT

    Seriously …where do they find these people? Surely when you interview someone for the job, you sit with them, ask questions, engage about their lifestyle, thoughts and ambitions.

    At some point, alarm bells should be ringing, especially when the person being interviewed denounces half the nation as Nazis, extremists, bullies and benefit scroungers. Yeah! Good going! Let’s trash 2 million Scots by denouncing them as delusional and extremist. That’ll win them over!

    The Scottish Labour party we know of today was built on the Glasgow machine politics. They likely don’t do interviews or anything similar to that. They will almost certainly do what ever other political machine does and choose the candidates who, as the Americans say, kiss ass in the most tender and loving way.

  75. Tony Little says:

    OK guys, I have put my Machiavellian hat on for a moment. Angus is not a winnable seat for Labour, so why put up a candidate that can be shown up as a closet Tory with a minimal of research? OVER REACTION.

    This is a set up. This woman hasn’t a hope in hell of winning the seat, but she could become the lightening conductor for another plan, to further try to discredit WoS and YES by association. They re after this site. It is the major thorn in the No side, and so anything and everything will be done to try to discredit it.

    Let’s all watch our language and what we suggest we might like to do to this vile woman. (I think that is a reasonable description which can be backed up by her own words). But let’s keep it real, and let’s not be dragged into their web.

  76. Macart says:

    @Tony Little

    Best response is a YES vote Tony.

  77. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    I wonder if Kathy Wiles has a psychological projection problem?

    She seems to be someone who has a great possibility, in there is a No vote, to be Labour’s Gauleiter for Scotland.

  78. bookie from hell says:

    to be fair

    She has a Sound of Music fetish

  79. Tam Jardine says:

    YESGUY

    We are on the same page. Glad to hear you are now a solid Yes. You have come to the right place. I worry about the squaddies today getting spoonfed No propaganda and being basically instructed to vote No by UK government.

    Re your comments on previous thread, I can see your point. I have a lot of respect for Jim Sillars and he has had a tough year – if it was up to me Pat Jane or Patrick Harvie, or any of the SNP big hitters would be on these progs but that is obviously by design.

    Re my advice above – I was nae referring to Duggie when I said no worth mentioning. r whittingham is the same breed. Ignore.

    Anyway – thanks for the post and have a great day.

  80. Robert Louis says:

    Ronnie Anderson,

    I totally get your anger. I really, really do.

    Your comments above however, fall straight into the trap constantly being set by the corrupt unionist cabal. All these Nazi slurs and snide abuse from unionists is being done for one purpose, and one purpose alone, to get somebody on the YES side to react badly.

    All of the abuse, all of the natz and nazi comments, we, most Scottish folk and even the unionista know are just piffle, we and they know that Alex Salmond is the complete opposite of a dictator, given he was democratically elected as Scottish First Minister twice by the members of the democratically elected Scottish parliament.

    Let’s not give the unionists the ammo they so desperately want, because their state controlled media (BBC pravda etc) will only report one side. The background slurs will NEVER be stated.

    Slowly, bit by bit as people in Scotland get the facts, day by day, they are starting to realise what a corrupt and corruptible bunch Labour have become, and how dishonest the anti independence campaign is. Here’s the bonus, once people’s eyes are opened to Labour and unionist lies, they will NEVER trust them again, no matter what the referendum outcome.

    Slowly, person by person, we will win.

  81. galamcennalath says:

    JLT says:
    I still believe that if Scotland votes ‘Yes’ that Labour for years will be in a civil war with itself as it tries to fight for its soul be getting rid of the old guard who are in every position, department, constituency.
    Labour won’t be fixed overnight just because Scotland voted ‘Yes’.

    I do worry about Labour continuing after Independence. A new left of centre party based on socialist principles completely replacing them is what is needed. However, I don’t think the wounded beast that Labour has become will give up so easily. I fear some of these troughers will try to keep their positions and the Labour party as we know it will continue as a festering sore on democracy. Worse, a real hindrence to nation building.

    I see only one obvious threat after independence – that elements of Scottish society will continue to support existing Labour. My hope is that other parties of the centre and left, new and existing, squeeze Labour out of existence.

  82. Fiona says:

    @ Tony Little

    You do them too much honour

    They put up a Tory because they are tories. They do not see anything wrong with what she thinks, and they do not think we do. Some of the Scottish labour party realise that it is better not to say it out loud in Scotland. But that is the dilemma they cannot escape: because what she is saying is what the uk labour party is saying. When you listen to them (and to the tories and libdems) on radio you might as well be listening to the speaking clock, so monotonous are they in repeating what they fondly imagine are effective slogans. “Pooling and sharing”; “hard working families”: “making work pay”. They imagine these are inspiring words. Certainly they are hurrah words. But they translate as ” we will share your natural resources and you will share our nuclear weapons”; “unemployed people are scum and the best thing you can do for them is the “tough love” represented by food banks”; and “cut benefits so a less than subsistence wage becomes something to be grateful for”.

    For the core labour vote it is truly hard to abandon the traditional notion that labour is different from tory: fact is that the current tories are also different from traditional tories: but they are not different from new labour: they are all plutocrats and they have disenfranchised all those who shared the post war consensus, tory and labour and lib dem alike

  83. JWil says:

    The Sillers/Forsyth debate on BBC was a strange choice of opponents. Sillers is not fully representative of the SNP and yet he did put he case for things like the currency union which he does not agree with.

    However, if it had been an SNP person Forsyth would have got a run for his money.

    Glen Campbell, in his usual inimical way. was at the interrupting game again. At the second time of trying it on, Sillers was having none of it. This is exactly why Salmond should not debate Darling on BBC Scotland. Where BBC have some control of the situation they use it against the independence proponent. It’s better to keep them out of it. Also, they do not deserve to have it.

  84. thoughtsofascot says:

    @ Tony Little
    OK guys, I have put my Machiavellian hat on for a moment. Angus is not a winnable seat for Labour, so why put up a candidate that can be shown up as a closet Tory with a minimal of research? OVER REACTION.

    This is a set up. This woman hasn’t a hope in hell of winning the seat, but she could become the lightening conductor for another plan, to further try to discredit WoS and YES by association. They re after this site. It is the major thorn in the No side, and so anything and everything will be done to try to discredit it.

    Distinct possibility. If that is the case, they’d be looking for another set of misogynistic comments so they could plaster the story across the front page of the BBC and red tops again, ala JK Rowling and that other person who I seem to have forgotten.

  85. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Robert Louis, I may sound enraged,I am, but with measured rage control in place . This site is bigger than any one person,I would do nothing to harm W. O. S.& damage the Hard Work of other Wingers.I have a way of working with people,& listening to they’re conserns. Have no fears, but Ms Wiles will know Im there..

  86. Grouse Beater says:

    James said: Grousebeater- I saw the exchange you had on Bella with ‘Dug’ and the other apologists for self centered academics. The phrase ‘we had to destroy the village to save it’ springs to mind as a description of his ilk. No statement too venal or twisted to get at a point made by a YES supporter(as demonstrated by the examples in the above article)

    James, I am very grateful for your reassurance. I got a yellow card for my contribution, in my opinion, a model of retraint in comparison to some of the lecturer’s nasty supporters, and indeed to some of her critics. I withdrew. I have my dignity to protect! It made me understand better how open and vigorous Stuart allows debate on this site.

    The phrase you remind me of sums up the incident. Thank you.

  87. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Fiona, “plutocrat”

    I like that.

    However it requires a qualification

    Kleptocratic plutocrats.

  88. Grouse Beater says:

    This woman hasn’t a hope in hell of winning the seat

    From all she has had to say she appears to hate people.

    As a basic quality for the job a prospective politician really ought to be gregarious, at the very least.

  89. Jim says:

    I get it, political satire, sometimes it can be quite funny but this vilification of a democratically elected politician, Alex Salmond, which goes mostly unchecked in our national newspapers is an absolute disgrace and these editors should be ashamed of themselves.

    The demeaning of the word Nazi is becoming as common as the demeaning of the word rape, both equally reprehensible in their misuse.

    As far as I am aware, Alex Salmond nor his party are or were complicit in the torture and murder of millions of people.

    Nor are the children of yes supporters the new Hitler youth, rather the children of ordinary people that just want a better life for their families and future generations.

    To be fair, when comments are allowed on the BBC website I have reported comments that compared Alex Salmond to whatever dictator is in vogue at that time and they have removed them as being libelous but then Alistair Darling is okay in their eyes with his “blood and Soil Nationalism comment.

    Let’s build bridges not walls Mr Millibrand.

    Vote Yes.

  90. Fiona says:

    @ Bugger(the Panda)

    I do not use that term to score a propaganda point: I describe them as plutocrats in all seriousness because that is what I think they are. Plutocrats are viscerally opposed to democracy and these people are not democrats at all. Historically such people are not unusual: they are the norm.

    I do not agree they are kleptocrats, because a thief recognises he is taking someone else’s property. Plutocrats do not recognise that. They write the laws in their own interest and the wealth they accumulate is then obtained quite legally. They believe this is the right thing to do.

  91. YESGUY says:

    tam Jardine.

    Thanks for the support and the common sense from ALL the wings readers.

    I come from a family of soldiers and a lot of mates joined up with me as the pits where in dispute with Thatcher in the early 80’s. I have yet to meet a soldier or ex who will vote no. We learned through the years to smell sh*t when it was nearby. I spent all of my time stationed in England and the Scots where everywhere. And we were vocal about Scotland then as now.

    Today i am off to Edinburgh for a wee shop. Wings badge on and a smile on my face. It’s not a bad way to start the day. Thanks to you all for making this old soldier feel welcome.

    But i must warn you i will be back by tea time ready for another read and a few comments.
    Thanks again.

  92. HandandShrimp says:

    Robert

    I agree. We can see clearly that the Unionist side can say pretty much anything they like and the media will barely report it (the police are a different matter as some of our would be assassins have discovered). Knowing they have a free hand from the BBC and the press, the No side are deliberately trying to rile the Yes side into responding in kind. Of course we just have to whisper one word of abuse and the media immediately spring into action even if no one can ever find that word on any of the interwebs.

    Not responding in kind really gets on the nipple ends of the Thankless Ones. It leaves them with a trail of pretty objectionable smears and nothing to show for it. Sites like Wings whose readership continues to grow, highlights with full colour screen shots, their indiscretions. They cannot deny they said these things, re-tweeted those pictures or, as in the case of the numpties the other week, discuss how they would like to see Salmond assassinated.

    We can use this but we must retain our cool. Challenge certainly but retain the higher moral ground while doing so. It is a good place to be and so completely alien to political troughers that it disorientates them 🙂

  93. Grouse Beater says:

    And thanks to Yes Guy for his support – very welcome!

  94. R-type Grunt says:

    @ Tony Little

    That was my first thought too.

  95. Tam Jardine says:

    YESGUY

    Guid stuff.

    Great to hear the troops are not buying the No camps tripe.

    If you’re able to make it on Friday night at the Newsroom for the Edinburgh night out it you would be most welcome. 7.30 at the downstairs bar of the Newsroom on Leith Street.

  96. Tony Little says:

    @macart: A YES vote is the only vote to give Scotland any kind of positive future. Of that I have no doubts whatsoever. But the unionist dependistas will do ANYTHING to try and prevent that. WoS is regularly cited as a negative, abusive, [add expletive of choice] phobic site. The only reason is that this site provides anyone who cares to look real information and analysis of the lies and misinformation peddled by the Better Together? NO thanks MSM. All I ask is that we keep it sensible. Keep anger in control (and anger with this woman and Labour is certainly justified given what she has to say)

    @Fiona: I did not with to suggest that I give then any honour at all. The no-side are the most duplicitous lying bunch it has ever been my misfortune to have to deal with. I agree with the rest of your post.

    These are critical days. YES is almost certainly ahead in private polling, and the upsurge in abusive comments by the noters is testament to that (there would be no need otherwise). they are scared and becoming corners. A rat is most dangerous when it thinks it has no option but to fight. And the no side seems to have more than its fair share of rats. Their ship is sinking and they won’t let their comfortable life go without giving someone a serious bite.

  97. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Fiona

    In order to have the wealth to exercise their Plutocratic rights, they have to thieve the necessary wealth.

    Kleptocratics sums up the incomers and new faces until they have qualified in wealth to adopt the mantel of plutocracy?

    In other words, on the make and then then they qualify for the “entitlement” phase.

  98. Proud Cybernat says:

    No supporters are democrats fighting the anti-democratic SNP.

    None so blind as those that will not see.

  99. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    The real message from Labour is vote NO because you’re a fuckin idiot!

    God forbid if there is a no vote. If so it will be due to the fear factor. The consequence will be to create resentment of the Labour party. Not just from pro YES voters, but from voters who buy the too poor too stupid line. Do they honestly think those people will vote for them in 2016?

  100. Macart says:

    @Tony Little

    Hell yes, they’re terrified of this site, its support and the effect it and they having. We keep our heads down, ignore the hot air and stay focussed. The more they bait, the more they expose the rotten core of their argument.

    Clootie hit the nail on the head above:

    “Those involved with YES are happy, positive and informed.
    Those supporting NO are grumpy, negative and ill informed.

    That sums up my experience to date.

    “You live in the world that you create”
    a simple choice without going into technical detail.”

    We stay positive, we win. The alternative is to live in a country where our representatives alienate us deliberately for party political gain.

  101. Robert Peffers says:

    There is no point in getting angry at Labour in Scotland. There is no point in telling people like, Kathy Wiles or Terry Kelly, Jackie Baillie or Johann Lamont they are vile liars. It’s a bit like telling an Ogre he/she is an Ogre.

    They already know they are Ogres. Nothing they or we can do will change the simple fact. The real problem is not the actual Ogres. It is the normal, reasonable and sadly misguided followers of the Ogres who are our problem. These, though, are not the enemy they are the prime victims.

    We cannot ever make an Ogre into a normal human being but we can indeed show the misguided followers the error of the Ogre’s mantras and lies. Please let us not confuse the Ogres with their victims and please do not class the real victims of the Labour Party in Scotland, the camp followers, with the real evil at the heart of the party.

    Mind you it is often like the fond parent of the gang leader who is convinced the gang leader is a nice person who has fallen in with a bad crowd and thus blames the followers for the leadership of the gang.

    Pity them, Wingers, don’t join in their abusive warfare.

  102. Thoughtsofascot says:

    Again, they don’t care.

    They would rather tear the country asunder than give up their place at the trough. They may lose ther seats in the Commons or Holyrood for this, but they’ll gain seats in the Lords. That is a guarantee.

  103. Dan Huil says:

    Scottish unionists will always put Westminster’s wants above Scotland’s needs.
    Ms Wiles seeks election to do just that. She’d love to do Westminster’s dirty work – she is already – these ermine sniffers are a desperate bunch.

  104. X_Sticks says:

    Training Day says:

    “it should by now be obvious that a pitch is being rolled in order to justify a rigged referendum vote”

    It is to me TD. THe question is what do we do about it? A peoples referendum monitoring organisation? Oversee the polling booths, the transporting of ballot boxes to the counting centres and the postal vote count. Can Wings come together to do this?

    No-one else is going to do it for us.

  105. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Yesguy.You do yourself a diservice Sir ( i am not educatedto the level to discuss these things to well ) You have a lifetime of experiance.You always had a voice,you just have a differant way of expressing it & a different way of looking at things & W.O.S.& REV have done that for many people ( rab the doupter,now bob sinclair & theres no stopping him )we all find our own level to engage people, my EDUMACATION has no been a barrier to me, its a asset.We learn something new every day in life,when we stop learning it means only one thing(We’re Deed )keep on posting, keep on engageing people wherever you meet them,remember Your a ASSET at whatever stage in life Your at. More Power to You ( I hear they( Duracell rechargables are good, W>O>S,does it for me ).

  106. Edulis says:

    I like Jim Sillars. He is a principled politician, but he needs to remember that when he stands up in a Yes/No debate, he represents the Yes side and not himself only. It would have been good if he had used his preamble to tell the young people where both he and Forsyth stood in the debate. That way the young people would have realised that Forsyth was rejected fulsomely by the electorate but still got the prize of a job for life legislating for all of us.

  107. Robert Peffers says:

    @ Thoughtsofascot says: 1 July, 2014 at 10:28 am

    “but they’ll gain seats in the Lords. That is a guarantee”.

    Thing is, Thoughtsofascot, if we vote YES the Lords AND Commons will not be any of our concerns.

  108. Thoughtsofascot says:

    I know, but that is why they are fighting so hard for a no. That is the prize they all desire and they really will do everything to get it, even if the labour party never gets elected again in Scotland. It doesn’t matter to them. The final prize is more valuable to them than anything else.

  109. Graham Ennis says:

    I rejoice when I see such “Nu-Labor(1984” candidates.They actually do truly represent the ideology and policies of Labour. What You see is what You get. But they are utterly mystified when people refuse to vote for them. The mentality is: “Right kind of candidates, wrong kind of voters.” As Lenin once said: “The worse, the better”.

  110. Liquid Lenny says:

    Taranaich

    I would say that Mr Sheridan is an asset to the YES camp not somebody who is an embarrassment.

    As for his most recent conviction, I note that one of the key witness against Mr Sheridan has been found guilty of something he said he didn’t do under oath at the Sheridan Trial. Quite ironic that Mr Sheridan was jailed for perjury partly based on the evidence of a perjurer!

    I think there will be an appeal coming soon.

    Now I know that his SSP Brothers and Sisters have had a big fall out with him , so no point in arguing the point here at length we have other fish to fry 🙂

    O/T I stopped watching BBC/STV and listening to UK radio stations as they were getting my dander up, so listen to Manx Radio now, maybe for not much longer, they are going with the YouGov poll with all the propaganda of the No side.

    As for that Labour Wifie frae Angus (Where is the quine from Angus btw? – aint heard from her in a while?)
    She appears to be a lose canon, however probably not that stupid, remember that even when its reported that she has apologised they manage to get the original smear into the public conscience, we are dealing with the best propaganda machine in history, they will stop at nothing. Get ready for a rough couple of months. Stay positive, don’t take the bait, you aint seen nothing yet.

  111. ronnie anderson says:

    @X Sticks. You are right We should register with the Electorial Commission in every Area as Monitors. Isaid it a long time ago,a lot interferance can happen anywhere in the chain,from the voting booth to the counting centre.

  112. X_Sticks says:

    @Lenny
    “Stay positive, don’t take the bait, you aint seen nothing yet.”

    Wise word Lenny. The kitchen sink is coming our way shortly. Pass the Fairy.

  113. Training Day says:

    @X_Sticks

    Indeed, we have to do something – I’m sure we can organise some form of monitoring via the Rev and WoS. How far we can be effective in that, though, is anyone’s guess. I am extremely worried by the context which is being set here by ‘polls’ and interventions like that yesterday from the odious Murphy in which he talked of thousands of ‘patriotic Scots’ moving to No.

    For illustration, a mate of mine was canvassing in an area of Glasgow on Saturday. He found one definite No out of forty doors. Yet YouGov et al constitute the ‘official’ MSM narrative, and the signals, it seems to me, couldn’t be clearer that that narrative is intended to be the reference point for a vote which is conducted and delivered in the most dubious fashion.

  114. Tam Jardine says:

    Ronnie Anderson

    +1 Agree with everything you just said. And don’t let that nasty piece of work rile ye. She has lost her way and should be pitied or ignored.

    See you Friday – aff to find a raffle book

  115. Jim says:

    Undecided – “Anas, It’s you!”

    Anas – “Yesssss, undecided, nice to see you again”

    Undecided – “Oh, go away, leave me alone”

    Anas – “Sssss, let me look at you, You don’t want me to look at you? Then, you look at me!”

    Undecided – “No Sir, I know what you’re trying to do, Anas”

    Anas – “You do? Ah, I mean, You don’t trust me?”

    Undecided – “No!”

    Anas – “Then, there’s nothing I can do to help!”

    Undecided – “You wanna help me?”

    Anas – “Sssssss Certainly, I can see to it that you never have to leave this union.”

    Undecided – “How could you do that?”

    Anas – “Mmm? Ohh, I have my own Ssssssubtle ways, hahahaha, but first, you must trust me”.

    Undecided – “I don’t trust anyone anymore.”

    Anus – “I don’t blame you, I’m not like those so called fair weather cybernat friendsssss of yourssss , you can belieeeeve in meeeee.”

    Anus starts singing –

    “Trust in me, just in me
    Shut your eyes and trust in me
    You can sleep safe and sound
    Knowing I am around

    Slip into silent slumber
    Sail on a silver mist
    Slowly and surely your senses
    Will cease to resist

    Trust in me, just in me
    Shut your eyes and trust in me”

    Sorry guys, a little light relief.

  116. X_Sticks says:

    Sorry O/T

    “Keeping Trident nuclear weapons ‘in UK’s national interest'”

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28098583

    Comments open, but I don’t have time here at work Grrr.

  117. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Liquid lenny there is nomore Quinnie fae Angus,she’s now

    called ( Q f A ) nice to see you on Sunday btw.

  118. Nuada says:

    Well, I’m married to a Scot and spend a lot of time over here. I’ve been watching this campaign for the last two years, and from my outsider’s view, it looks to me as though the Labour Party honestly believes they actually OWN Scotland. It’s as though they think it’s their personal property. I’ve always found their attitude quite shocking, but they just don’t seem to learn. They’re treating non-Labour voters, and the SNP in particular, like burglars, and just like burglars, they seem to think they’re morally entitled to eject them by any means available, almost it’s as though it’s outrageous that anybody should “steal” the votes that rightfully belong to them.

    Now, maybe I’m missing something, but like a lot of non-Scots, I always (in the past) kind of assumed that Labour DID in fact own Scotland. Imagine my surprise when, having married in, I began to study a little about the history of the country and found that on the best day of its electoral life (60s, 70s-ish) the Labour Party only barely touched about 50% of the vote, and indeed, in the days of the old Scottish Unionists, the right was claiming almost as much. And then there was the fact that much of Labour’s support was confined to Glasgow and the central belt. They’ve NEVER actually owned Scotland (not that you can own a country) and have NEVER been the authorized voice of Scotland. They just think they are. I’m amazed that nobody has pointed this out before, because they’re behaving like some parasitic offspring, stamping his foot on the floor of the solicitor’s office when he finds he’s been disinherited. And make no mistake, disinherited he has been, because whatever happens on September 18th, they’ve told so many lies and displayed such utter contempt for the people they’re supposed to serve that even those who vote NO will be hard pressed to go back and vote Labour at the next Scottish election.

  119. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Nauda. theres a word in Scots law pertaining to untracable land ownership ( for the life of me I cant remember what it is just now ) but if sombody discovers such land they can apply to the land registery, pay the outstanding tax & have the land tranfered into they’re title,a bit like Slab assuming entitelment without paying the tax.

  120. Chic McGregor says:

    In my experience, one of the more surprising things I have encountered, is the prevalence of extreme egotism in the leadership or would be leadership of the far left. Not only, that, but the willingness, indeed eagerness, of the rank and file to have and follow a leader.

    Both those things, I would at one time have thought, would be at odds with the underlying ethos of egalitarianism.

    It is an ironic old world isn’t it?

    But there we have, it. Some of the biggest egos in politics vie, by a kind of ‘intellectual’ neo tanistry, for the ready adulation of the lumpen left.

    Winners assume demi-god like status, losers are left in a bitter sulk.

    Such a system is always doomed to result in fracture and rancour.

    Having said that, even to be a contender in that macabre contest requires a considerable talent for persuasion, and those of them who rise to prominence, however fleeting, are amongst the best idea sellers out there.

    IMO pro-indy speeches made by Tommy Sheridan and Jim Sillars are by far the most effective of on line available material for persuading those of a left leaning and even centrist-with-a-social-conscience leaning to back independence.

    Frankly, at this juncture, they could be a one-eyed, alien blob from planet Zog, for all I care, if they produce Yes votes.

    Make DVD’s, give them to people.

    Do it now.

  121. Chic McGregor says:

    @Nuada
    Good, well written, post, especially with a mechanical hand. 😉

    Here is a little poem wot I wrote after the 2011 election:

    Labour Leviathan

    Behold the carcass of a once proud and noble animal in its ruin on the Plain of Retribution!

    A vast putrid pile which rots and decays and violates the very air.

    In truth, this aged Leviathan, the last of its kind, had commenced its corruption long ere this final demise.

    The Paparasites which had fed on Laborusaurus Scotus, for that was its name, now reduced to whimpering prodders and pokers, try, hopelessly, to bring their former provider back to life.

    They had, fleetingly, ran to its nemeses, Alexander the sure-footed, the great Golden King of Linlothian, yea even as he wielded the fatal blow.

    But no succour were they to find there, for he is a King of hard justice.

    And so they return, pathetically, to the thing they knew, the thing whose time is past, the thing that will soon,… mark their own passing.

    But as the Sun sets in the West, so it rises in the East and the Land will fill with the good light and will renew and all will prosper and attain fulfilment.

  122. Chic McGregor says:

    err prose not poem

  123. Tony Little says:

    @X-Sticks / TrainingDay

    As we approach the ‘end game’ my major concern is the impact that the postal votes will have. Are the rules for them the same for the referendum? I think that in a GE the postal votes are initially checked for compliance (properly signed. cross-checked, etc.) and then simply ADDED to the voted from the ballot boxes. As this is important, even more so, will this be the practice or will they be recorded separately?

    I think the possibility of fraud is extremely high, and any and every way we can think of to properly monitor this needs top be done. I believe there were numerous occasions in the last Holyrood election when people went to vote and were told that they had already voted by postal vote. Whatever happened to enquiries, I do not know.

    Monitoring is one thing, but the BIG concern for me is the postal vote, now being ‘set up’ by the polls. Watch for far more negative polling in the next few weeks.

  124. ticktock says:

    This stuff about vote rigging (and of course the formulation of plans to counteract it) needs to go high up on the to do list, VERY high.

    I’ve recently been getting a distinct gut feeling, through observation and interaction with people while out handing out Aye right flyers, that Yes may well have passed the tipping point.

    If I’m right about that, and of course there’s still plenty of no’s around but SOMETHING seems to be picking up re the Yes vote, some form of vote fraud is all that they’ll have left to preserve their stinking union, and, as has already been suggested, the release of “polls” attempting to deny the actual evidence could be the initial softening up factor for public opinion to try to justify or explain a no “vote”.

    We’re only ever going to get one chance to get out of this union, we just can’t let it slip from our grasp because we allowed criminals and ("Tractor" - Ed)s in the MSM, the EC, gov’t friendly polling organizations and a bunch of fat troughing scumbags to steal it.

  125. Michael says:

    Kathy is a member of this incredibly popular facebook group. https://www.facebook.com/groups/122724204420003/

  126. Walter Scott says:

    The BBC’s Website said she won’t be a candidate after all. They also said the whole thing stemmed from a pro independence rally. Not a mention that the “rally” was an anti BBC bias demonstration.

  127. YESGUY says:

    A quick thanks to Mr jardine and Anderson and all wings readers.

    I will be in Hospital friday 4th but hope to get home and will try very hard to get to the Newsroom 7.30 sharp. I would love to just “see” the folk who chat away here . Sadly i can’t guarantee it but i will do every thing i can to be there.

    tried to get the appointment changed but no joy as th specialist i see is coming from down south. But fingers crossed i can be there.

  128. Training Day says:

    @ticktock

    I have that feeling too – the feeling that a point has been reached where the Brit establishment concludes it has to rig the vote. Put simply, we look like winning so they have no choice.

    The idea that thousands of people (based on the YouGov poll) who were Yes a month ago have now moved to No runs completely counter to recent evidence on the streets.

    We mustn’t take our eyes off this – it’s the single most important issue from now until polling day (amusing as the crass ineptitude of prospective Labour candidates might be). If we are not careful they will steal this from us and do it in plain sight.

  129. Menagerie says:

    Kathy’s been busy (or her minders have) – her Facebook page seems to have disappeared and the group that Michael mentioned above is now showing no members. Nothing to see here…

  130. jim says:

    I see trident got a bit of a doing in the comments section of the BBC, even the majority of the editor’s picks were anti-trident.
    Maybe the tide is turning as people realize the only way to get rid of that evil weapons system is to vote yes.

  131. Camz says:

    It beggars belief. The side that hold the power of government. The side that have 99% of the media on its side. The side that throw out insults to belittle and intimidate voters.

  132. If there is a NO vote,then the labour party are finished in Scotland,they will never be trusted by many of their members again.They have backed the wrong horse in this referendem,they should be coming out to support YES or never again get to run this country.

  133. donald anderson says:

    Labour does not know any different. They are not worth trying to reform, or even debate with. Just get rid of them.

  134. donald anderson says:

    I am afraid I have to agree with Chick MacGregor about egos on the left and their latter day saints.

    Chic was founder member of “Scotland First”, which was a single issue, non party campaign for a Referendum. It was taken over by those of the left with egos bigger than their work ethic. They managed to transfer it to a bum of the month plethora of issues, forcing all the founder members to leave them to run it into the ground. I had to leave when the SSP members, who had vehemently opposed Independence First joined to attack the SRSM

    Thankfully the Referendum campaign was taken up the SNP who won an election with that on their programme.

  135. Taranaich says:

    @macart763m: Their behaviour both before and during this campaign has been appalling and this is why they no longer hold office. Until they learn this most vital lesson its why they’ll remain out of office. If they hold half the electorate in such contempt as human beings, they may also wish to reflect on just why they wish to represent anyone at all?

    Back when I was just getting into the current referendum stuff, I was willing to give all sides the benefit of the doubt. But it’s really quite shocking just how common and brazen the lies and deliberate misconceptions (especially regarding the pound and EU) are after all this time.

    R-type Grunt: Heads up! Your friend is not your friend.

    Regardless of our disagreement on the referendum, he absolutely is my friend, and always will be. As has been said elsewhere, this referendum is finite. In the event of a No vote, I’ll continue to promote and favour independence just as I have since the time we first became friends. In the event of a Yes vote, we’ll be back on the same side: ensuring social justice, a fair system, and a better future for our country.

    Regardless of my feelings for my friend, though, I hold nothing but contempt for the people who have lied, and continued to lie, to the people of Scotland and the UK, have been proven to have lied, and will lie all the way up to the referendum. I just hope my friend realises this sooner rather than later – or at all. Not so I could say “I told you so,” but because it drives me crazy that he’s living under this delusion.

    I would say that Mr Sheridan is an asset to the YES camp not somebody who is an embarrassment.

    There are a few people who think that way too, and he’s certainly made an impact. But the fact I brought up Sheridan as the “worst” on the Yes side should speak volumes when you have the likes of Ian Taylor, Ian Duncan Smith, Michael Gove and William Hague on the No side.

  136. donald anderson says:

    Can’t agree with you about Tommy Sheridan being “the worst”. He is a definite asset and gaining more support every day.

    His former comrades are incapable of holding a discussion about anything without getting excited and shouting everyone down and bad mouthing him.

    Watch him on U tube.

  137. David G. says:

    The word for today : kakistrocacy

    http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/kakistocracy

    noun : Government by the least qualified or moist unprincipled people.

  138. David G. says:

    DOH! that should’ve been “most” not “moist” .. then again 🙂

  139. Kevin mcarthur says:

    Why are we poorly educated ,would one of us made a gaff like hers no,we not dumb enough lol

  140. donald anderson says:

    This is wot Labourites do in their own peer group for applause. Occasionally one is daft enough to say so in public and is surprised that they are forced to apologise after public reaction.

  141. kininvie says:

    @Chic

    Ah ‘intellectual neo-tanistry’ – how I love that! Maybe the Tories get on a bit better because, although they are happy with the neo-tanistry bit, they can’t provide the intellectual component..

    If you ask me, there are far too many big egos around – the real work is being done on the streets and the doorsteps and in Yes meetings with ten people and a couple of dogs by those with little or no ambition other than to see their country independent again.

    We have come too far now to settle back into letting the leadership of this country revert to those who are personally ambitious and are more concerned with scrambling up the greasy pole than with working for a better Scotland.

  142. jim says:

    Their leader, Lamont, says, “Scots are not genetically programmed to make political decisions”.
    We can just about manage to use our brains to operate our mouths in eating 280 hot dogs at the Edinburgh Festival or eating fish and chips with mushy peas every day for 10 weeks.
    We can also safely work out how to by a ticket then taking the bus between Edinburgh and Glasgow.
    These are the morons that wish to govern us.

  143. The Morgatron says:

    I love beign thick and living in my inner city slum , but hey Kathy Vile at least I got a job! Hehe hehe.

  144. Scotsense says:

    Next!

  145. ticktock says:

    What’s the use of having a majority for Yes if the vote could be fixed, rigged to favour a no?

    I’ve no idea how (or even if) they could do that but you can bet your life they’re thinking about it.

    Some form of national monitoring of the vote on the day needs to be implemented. Urgently.

  146. Bill Cruickshank says:

    @donald anderson Spot on Donald, Perfidious Albion will stop at nothing to protect its’ last colony. Some of us have been warning on here and elsewhere for months, that YES voters should be prepared for an onslaught from UK security services. The play 3000 Trees, which details the murder of Willie McRae and is running at the Edinburgh Fringe in August, provides a timely reminder of what we are up against.

  147. donald anderson says:

    John MacLean, who stood for a Scottish Workers Republic did no9t miss the Labour Party. He generally termed the Labour “Fakirs”, We could nowadays term then far worse.



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