Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Leading by example

Posted on January 03, 2014 by

Awesome start on healing those divisions, Johann.

johannheal

(From today’s Scottish Sun.)

The full article, with messages from all four main party leaders in Scotland and for some inexplicable reason Alistair Darling (but nobody from Yes Scotland, leaving the balance at four Unionists to one nationalist), is below.

sun_030114

Looks like we know what to expect for the next nine months.

237 to “Leading by example”

  1. Oldnat says:

    Odd that the Record chooses not to notice all the times that Labour have said Barnett will have to end.
     
    http://archive.is/WgVC6

  2. BM says:

    A rally cry to “do less better”.

  3. Ken500 says:

    Why do 5 Unionists BT get to voice their opinion and only 1 person who supports Scottish Independence. Once again totally unfair, unjust and unequal coverage. Biased MSM reporting.

    Well will they ever learn? More bolk coverage and political bias. Just like Westminster gov bias. Scottish votes – out voted 10 to 1. Making Scottish voters expendable and the Unionist Parties know it. Same old, same old Unionist/ MSM bias.

  4. gordoz says:

    O/T Excellent piece from Alan Bissett in event of a NO vote. (Is this type of  delivery something Wings could explore Stu ?)
     

    Guys – have a listen to this, seems pretty accurate and insightful to me. Linked to post above on Labour & Council tax. The resurrection of Devo Max and enhanced devolution stalling tactic, (smoke & mirrors)
     

    Yet again:  “Labour will set Scotland up to fail, and then occupy the ruins”.
    Its Devo Max & Tax, Tax,Tax.
     
    http://www.newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/in-brief/8520-scotland-after-a-no-vote

  5. Ken500 says:

    Staying in the Union means the Scottish economy will continue to ruined by Westminster corruption, secrets and lies and devastated by Westminster failed economic policies.

  6. So it’s only four pro-union mouthpieces against one Alex Salmond.
    Fair enough in a live debate – Alex would win hands down, but printed statements are very different.
    And why no Patrick Harvie? – The Greens were only a point or two behind the Lib Dems in the last election.

  7. Cath says:

    No Patrick Harvey, no Dennis Canavan, no Labour for Indy, no CND. The media really are failing the people of Scotland – and the rest of the UK – massively.

  8. gordoz says:

    Typical of Scottish press – They are all unionist’s so see nothing wrong with this tack at all.
    But Joe MacPublic will totally miss the bias on display here. It happens everytime.
    If its the Sun Anderw Nichol will be at the back of this, says it all really.

  9. Gordon Hay says:

    So the buzzphrase for 2014 seems to be “Independence is a gamble we don’t need to take”.
     
    This seems to be a bit of an open goal for Yes campaigners, as without any info from the Unionist parties about what happens after a No vote it is surely just as much, if not more, of a gamble.

  10. PRJ says:

    The MSM continuing with the myth that the Yes campaign is the SNP.

  11. alexicon says:

    A Quote from JL.
     
    “I believe that this year will cement Scotland’s place within the united kintgdom”
     
    This is political speak for: You’re never ever going to get the chance of a referendum to vote for Independence again.
     
    Alistair Darling said something similar to this previously.
     
    Can she tell me what her vision of a “real Scotland” is?
     
    Is it one where we are Governed by another country?
     
    O/T.
     
    Can someone on face book please correct the obvious misinformation on this USA article, especially the banking bit.
     
    Mundell doing Scotland down again.
     
    No wonder the Yanks don’t get it, if they’re getting fed mince like this.
     
    http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/01/02/2975377/is-2014-the-year-scotland-finally.html

  12. Ken500 says:

    Alan Bisset forgets to mention that Westminster will continue to take other taxes from Scotland (Oil and other taxes) that got direct to Westminster, while cutting the Barnett £4Billion leaving the so called ‘Black hole’ and the need for other taxation to be raised in Scotland from the Barnett Block grant cut. Same old, same old but don’t worry the SNP are fit for them. The anomalies will be pointed out, publicised and displayed on the Scottish Gov website. Nice try Unionists but your economic inadequacies will be show up, and pointed out. Unionists complete economic failures. Most of them can’t even count.

  13. gordoz says:

    alexicon says:
     
    This stinks of something, Mundell (A scottish oddity, a nobody) gets interviewed in one sided piece in the states ? I think your right.

  14. The Man in the Jar says:

    And so starts 2014. Same shit, different year from BT and the MSM! Not that I (or anyone else) expected anything else. But you live in hope.

  15. bannock hussler says:

    Why does the Scottish media feel it has to give so much space to the Unionists? Has any Scottish journalist (or any journalist anywhere) addressed that question? It seems such a peach of a question for anyone with professional rather than lickspittle ambition to answer.

  16. Chris says:

    As the Liberal Democrats are only on 5% they should only get a mention with the Greens. Lack of YesScotland opinion is ridiculous and should be challenged.

  17. gordoz says:

    bannock hussler
     
    Im with you on that one; way beyond point where journalsits in Scotlnd need to answer that question. I would love to hear journalists answer the question of ensuring no bias. Thay cant and wont thats why. 

  18. heraldnomore says:

    And then there’s the 1984 Cabinet papers now released.  Can’t have Scotland closing the wealth gap can we.  Not then, not now.  Delve in Stu.

  19. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    “cement our place in the United Kingdom”.  With the emphasis on “our place”. In other words we ken our place. Do as were told from Westminster.  

  20. bannock hussler says:

    @ gordoz
     
    Yes, I was just thinking that the likes of tyro wiseacre David Torrance (see Newsnet Scotland the other day) would be saving this sort of analysis till the dust had long settled (as he doubtless hopes) and it is possible to tackle tricky but interesting issues without getting his hands dirty. Mrs Thatcher, for goodness’ sake… got in a bit early on that one though, didn’t he. Still learning.

  21. Robert Kerr says:

    Good question hustler.
    4 to 1 is about correct since the YES arguement is so strong in all ways.
    It is of course the repeating the lie that YES = SNP, so all three opposition parties get their say. Forget the others they are of no consequence. Do you hear that message, Greens, Independents, CND, LfI etc. etc. You don’t matter.

  22. gordoz says:

    I love Lamonts attention to detail and statesman like delivery. Sounds like the total response to the White Paper. She’s out of her depth.
     
    To build a new Scotland – and just get on with it. (?)
     
    Lots of research an ideas coming from Labour in Scotland then

  23. Papadocx says:

    5 photographs: One gentleman Alex Salmond. Defender of Scotland.
     
    3 Clowns.
    1 Snake oil salesman. 
     
    They will sell their wee country and it’s people, if the price is right.

  24. David Agnew says:

    a united Scotland? these idiots have sown so much division and hatred, their union is already dead and they don’t even know it.

  25. Stuart Black says:

    Dear Ruth, how many times do you need to be told, the pound, the pound, the fucking pound!
     
    Oh, and could you also provide concrete examples of what “more clout on the world stage” actually means, that doesn’t involve the phrase punching above our weight?

  26. Robert Kerr says:

    @Stuart Black
    Surely with Ruthie-Babe it’s “kicking above our height”?

  27. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I asked the Scottish Sun’s political editor why there were four Unionists to one Nat, and why Darling was included rather than, say, Patrick Harvie, the only missing Holyrood leader. His answer was:

    “when you are paying my wages, I’m sure things will be much different.”

    Take from that what you will.

  28. Papadocx says:

    Be careful what you wish for unionist. Because you might just get it!

  29. Robert Kerr says:

    Honesty from MSM?
     
    Surely some mistake?

  30. Stuart Black says:

    Surely with Ruthie-Babe it’s “kicking above our height”?
     
    That’s an image I can do without. ;)

  31. Barontorc says:

    Guess who’s setting the running bang on schedule – the MSM, as above and BBC Jockland – heros all of the Union cause. Had the chance to hear Radio Scotland from 6.00 am this morning – first a good program on Scots and the Union by Richard Holloway including Lesley Riddoch and seemingly balanced throughout – too bad very few early birds would be around to hear it – thanks again BBC.
     
    Next and guess who one the toss to appear first – yes your right it was the SG as Brian Taylor interrupted Nicola Sturgeon throughout her 10 minutes slot at 7.30 with all variety of difficult questions – acting one might say as an opposition spokesman – but not to worry at 8.30, so predictably, it would be the good old Unionist slot to have a go and he’d fillet Alistair Darling also – so duly tuned in and listened to him giving AD a walk in the park interview – so benign, I thought he’d eventually ask him what he got for his Christmas just to fill in the blanks AD offered – no piercing questions but mega opportunities to get some in as AD regurgitated all manner of same old tosh with not an ounce of back-up in support. AD helpfully repeated that it will be a very close call and it could depend on just 1 vote over 50%, so …. ‘people’ really must get out and vote….!. The are worried by the polls no doubting that.
     
    Next up ‘call me kaye’ (with some seriously inept presenter) who parroted out the next fav topic from the BT camp – 2/3 of Scots want to pay more council tax , for, as per the BBC fed agenda, to pay for crumbling schools and inadequate elderly care provision, both apparently abandoned by the SG through the council tax freeze. Balance coming from some seriously fed up callers who tried to put the farce straight.
     
    And we’ve got another nine months to go!

  32. frankieboy says:

    Sorry to say but Alistair Darling is a sycophantic carpetbagging shite and so is his ‘message’

  33. gordoz says:

    Rev :
    Its a good straight reply, but a more honest one would have been.
    “Im a pretty uselsess, lazy Unionist hack pasing myself off as an impartial journalist with no shame, writing for a gutter UK rag”.

  34. faolie says:

    There will no let up by the in the skew towards the unionist message in 2014. If anything it will intensify. So quite apart from people raising their own questions we all need to double our efforts in questioning. Why? Why do you believe this? What is your vision for a Scotland in the uk? Exactly what is so good about it now? 
     
    When people start to ask questions, they tend to doubt and start to look for answers themselves. From what we’ve seen last year, once people move to don’t know, they will generally move to yes. 
     
    So we need to arm ourselves and publicise our sites. Once people see they’re being lied to they’ll see the MSM for what they are – propagandists for the goverment and vested interests. 

  35. Ken500 says:

    Scottish Lab – UK Labour, Scottish Tories – UK Tories, Scottish LibDem – UK LibDem and one other random BT – UK BT.

  36. DaveyM says:

    So Wee Wulle Rennie reads the tea leaves?  Great political strategy.

  37. HandandShrimp says:

    Johann could start a row in an empty house. Regardless of result, reconciliation will not come from the likes of Lamont, Stab them Davidson or Curran. 

  38. Oldnat says:

    The level of ignorance sometimes exhibited by those in England about themselves can be quite staggering,
    From FT article -
    “High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales [dot] support [at] ft [dot] com to buy additional rights. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0ba7861e-72e2-11e3-b05b-00144feabdc0.html#ixzz2pKhEReIz

    David Smith of the Shadow Monetary Policy Committee said: “The main issues with Scottish independence are geopolitical and defence ones. Think what would have happened to England in 1940, or the Napoleonic wars, or at the time of the Spanish armada, if Scotland had been neutral or hostile, for example.””
    England seemed to do quite well against the Spanish Armada without our help.

  39. Papadocx says:

    Sounds to me rev their loyalty can be purchased if the price is right. 
     
    @stuart black
     
    I don’t want to punch above my weight, I don’t want to punch anybody. Ruthie-baby.
     
    I don’t want to be on the world stage holding Obama’s jacket or licking his boots. Ruthie-baby.

  40. Glass Girl says:

    Willie Rennie appears to believe he has the ability to boost nursery education through confidence alone. That’s quite a skill.

  41. desimond says:

    If Alex Salmond is a second hand car salesman, heaven only knows what that makes Labour and its Peddlers of shite.

    Nice of wee Ruthie to play the WW1 card and the “Feck you Bannockburn” card with her Armed Forces tribute patter.

    Shouldnt be too long now before we get Ruth or Wullie asking “Will the First Minister support England at the World Cup 2014?”…you know its coming and you know Johann hasnt got the guts to ask!

  42. Macart says:

    Willie Rennie deluded as usual but the other usual suspects on message attacking Alex Salmond or SNP.
     
    Not for one second could they avoid the ad hominem. As pathetic a shower as ever there was. The politics of true division easily contrasted by the FMs own message which singles out neither individual or party.
     
    Does anyone really fancy the prospect of Lamont, Davidson or Rennie creating a ‘Real Scotland’? Can anyone see them healing the very real divisions they themselves have created or endorsed?
     
    Vote YES and let’s lose yesterday’s politics.

  43. Iain Hamilton says:

    “This stinks of something, Mundell (A scottish oddity, a nobody) gets interviewed in one sided piece in the states ?”

    It’s obviously because he’s ” A lifelong Scotsman”.

    What?

  44. john king says:

    Will this dae Alexicon?
    written ten minutes ago on the News Tribunes website 
    “Typical fact free unionist propaganda,
    Lets start with (Think “Braveheart” with fewer beheadings and more sober white papers on the material benefits of secession.)you lose,the minute someone mentions Braveheart it proves they know the sum total of nothing about the independence debate,

     Mundell”Mundell has become London’s poster child for keeping the United Kingdom united,”Ha ha the one Tory MP in Scotland who represents a party so toxic in Scotland he dare not speak on behalf of the no campaign for fear of demolishing the no vote, so they bring in Alistair Darling (remember him ) the Labour Chancer (not a misspelling) who sat on his hands while he oversaw meltdown of the banks which brings me to the biggest lie of all ” In 2008, the British government bailed out two of Scotland’s biggest banks, the Royal Bank of Scotland and HBOS.”

    This is without a doubt the most disgraceful piece of spin I think I have ever seen 
    first of all the losses made by those banks were made in London, not Edinburgh, under the FSA’s rules created by Westminster who’s “light touch” allowed banks to behave as if they were in the wild west, There is no reason to imagine an independent Scotland would have followed the same disastrous policies which allowed the collapse to happen in the first place
    secondly the country where the losses were made was responsable for bailing out the banks not the country where they are registered, and they well know this

    third you would be well advised not to cite Iceland as an example of what could have happened to an independent Scotland as they did what is widely accepted as the right thing, they jailed the crooks and let the banks go bust, now Iceland is in full recovery and is in a better financial state than the UK,

    “In a shot across the bow, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy warned in November that Scotland would be kicked out of the European Union if it voted for independence from Britain.”

    RUBBISH he did not,
    he was at pains to avoid a direct mention of Scotland as the difference between Scotland and Catalonia could not be more marked, Scotland has UK agreement for the referendum (Edinburgh agreement) signed by both Alex Salmond and David Cameron signed in front of tv cameras which legitimizes the referendum and will be the democratically stated will of the Scottish people, the clear position is that Scotland has from September this year until its independence day which will be 24 march 2016 to negotiate (from within the EU) its continued membership which is widely accepted as a perfectly reasonable time frame
    Catalonia on the other hand has no such acceptance from the Spanish government, 

    “As a part of the U.K., Scotland enjoys the benefits of London’s longstanding clout in an array of international institutions from the United Nations, where it holds a seat at the Security Council, to NATO, to the European Union to the G8 and the G20.”

    What was that? oh just a peice of tumbleweed
    Long standing clout? are you serious Scotland gains the some total of nothing from the UK’s seat on the security council, god knows how those poor countries like Norway survive without a seat,

    NATO?
    why would an independent Scotland not be welcome in NATO pray tell? because it wont be nuclear armed? which would make it the same as 20odd other NATO members and its strategic position on the map makes it a VERY important member look up the GIUK gap 

    Maybe John Hudson would care to look for a job more in keeping with his skills
    gossip columnist? ”
     
     

  45. desimond says:

    Johann wants to get back to :

    Getting our health service to work properly – Has she asked Andy Burnham for his thoughts on a future NHS? and we all cant wait for those prescription costs and those daft means teats) coming back

    Improving schools..otherwise known as “PFI 3..The Revenge of the Corporates” ( and tuition fees of course)

    Improving care for our old folk…that will be higher aged-heathcare costs to the public, an increased pension age and thank god for Workfare for those care staff needs then!

    If this lady and her party seriously think they can be considered contenders in a new forward facing Scotland ( and that’s us at present before the Vote) then they’re evem more misguided than I believed.

  46. David Martin says:

    Nice bit of ProudScottery from wee Willie Rennie too!

  47. Doug Daniel says:

    An awful lot of uses of the word “real” there. She’s not a fan of real eyebrows, though. 
     
    Notice Darling talking about childcare as being something Holyrood can decide upon? Sneaky little so and so. The childcare pledge has clearly got them worried.

  48. gordoz says:

    @Iain Hamilton – I’d missed that cracker !
     
    Are we lifelong Scotsmen & Scotswomen ? How do we apply  if we’re not ?
    Now I’m really confused, maybe I’m a proudscot

  49. Thejourneyman says:

    Perhaps good that the media and BT have come out fighting so early in the new year.  Reminds us that there’s no room for complacency and it’s going to be dirty. Our positive messages will always win through and remember the readership of all the unionist rags is dropping like a stone. They do themselves a disservice as the truth will out and as we give people the facts we should ask them to question the sense in supporting unionist propaganda with their hard earned cash. We can shine the light of independence into every dark corner of BT’s scaremongering until there is no place to find their darkness to find refuge.

  50. gordoz says:

    @john king – On John Hudson mince.
    That had the feel of ‘light brush’ coverage; might need something more in depth to take Mr Hudson appart.

    Seriously  – nice one.

  51. Glass Girl says:

    Johanns analogy about second hand car salesmen is a funny one. Logically in this scenario it would make more sense to cast Alex Salmond as the new car salesman selling a brand new (albeit untested) vehicle. It’s he rest of them that are more like second hand car salesman, trying to flog your old union model back to you, assuring you that its still a good wee runner even though you just saw it being towed in off the motorway with steam billowing from the bonnet and four flat tyres.

  52. cjmasta says:

    It has become so very obvious now that in the event of a no vote none of the changes coming our way will be for the benefit of Scotland or its people.   Everything that is coming our way is in reaction to the threat of us walking away with our resources and leaving London with a major headache.

    In 1979 and previously they just ignored us, the referendum in the late 90`s was also supposed to secure a unionist party majority in the Scottish Executive but that failed dramatically.

    All indications just now point to Westminster giving us more tax raising powers but lees money so making Scotland even less competitive and either having to cut public services in line with the poorer parts of England or raise taxes to a damaging degree or both.

    Scottish representation will be less in the commons. It will be made law that all parts of the UK will get a vote on any part leaving and with no major Westminster party willing to even propose such a thing until Scotland has been impoverished to the point where it is actually a drain on our neighbours and our depleted resources are no longer of any use to the London elite we will be kicked aside.

    It will be hell for this country as more of our young talented mostly move south to help England`s economy with their skills and talent.

  53. alexicon says:

    @John King,
     
    That will do nicely, an excellent job.

  54. john king says:

    “On John Hudson mince.”
     
    No your right I just touched on the subjects someone with a better turn of phrase could dismantle that idiot easily, I just couldn’t sit and read that shit without responding, but If I had gone on for three pages my wife would have killed me brutally (saving the rev the trouble) :)

  55. Red squirrel says:

    Same old, same old. One positive and exciting vision for Scotland, one tedius scare rehash still promising a positive case for the union, one consulting medicine men (?!) while still doing Scotland down, one proud-scottery apparently consulting tea leaves and last but in no ways least, one still not seen the white paper.
     
    Oh for crying out loud people, is this seriously the best you can say about our fantastic wee country? Let me remind 4 of you that you were in fact elected to represent Scotland’s interests – not your own, not Westminster’s, not big corporations but us, the people who live and work here.  

  56. Cath says:

    “when you are paying my wages, I’m sure things will be much different.”
    Take from that what you will.

    Sounds like an admission the pro-union side are paying his wages to me.

  57. Dcanmore says:

    The Scottish media, on the whole, are unionists themselves, they are giving their allies (political or otherwise) as much help as possible. The SNP is the enemy, Scottish Greens is the enemy and Labour for Independence is the enemy along with other independence supporting groups. Independence is the enemy’s victory and that must be avoided at all costs. The hegemony that should exist in Scotland in the unionists eyes is the BBC in Scotland (Labour), Daily Record (Labour), The Sun (floating but unionist), Herald (centrist but unionist) and The Scotsman (British Nationalist Empirialist UKIP Tory loons).
     
    The question is not about fairness in the media, but how to beat them and expose them, that’s why we’re on the internet, on this blog having this discussion. All of the above are part of the British Establishment with a London owned Press and they are beginning to flex their muscle on Scotland. There will be no quarter given, no parlez, this is a bloody fight where they will try to isolate independence supporters like ravenous starving dogs out in the cold. Divide and conquer, us and them is their tactic, indy supporters will be treated as if they’re outcasts of society, kooks and retards with dangerous ideas, made out to be different from ‘ordinary’ Scots who live in the neighbourhoods of our towns a cities.
     
    Mundell gets column inches in the USA, why isn’t there an SNP politician doing the same thing? All of the YES campaign needs to seriously up their game and we need to be more collective about it. Specific areas need to be targeted, Labour heartlands has to be penetrated by Labour for Independence, Common Weal, RIC and the SSP and they funds to do that. Wings, NNS, Bella and NC are our biggest hopes online. Small to medium businesses need to be made aware of Business for Scotland. The White Paper has to be circulated among family friends and neighbours by ourselves, it has to go viral as they say. Facts from the White Paper has to go on posters, leaflets and postcards. And above all, exposing the future under a NO vote and what it means for Scotland under Tory austerity policies for the next 10 years. Folks, we need to get mobilised, quickly, efficiently and with a coherent strategy otherwise the charlatan print and broadcasting media will walk all over us. We know their tactics, we know what the unionists are going to do, it’s up to us to make it difficult for them.

  58. ronnie anderson says:

    So, Thatcher,s Tory  Government told LIES. Cameron,s Tory Government tells LIES,/ Libdem / Lab. They all speak with Cloven Hoof, and walk on Forked Tounge,s. Unless WE take on the MSM full ON, the People of Scotland will still be, UNINFORMED. The MSM will bury the Thatcher paper again. Politic,s have moved on since then, ( humff ). And its not inconcevable that the UK gov, can initiate, a situation to put Police / Army on the streets of Scotland, NI is still under UK control, irespective of the NI essembly. UK gov will employ every dirty trick in the book then some. WE need more boots on the Street, at BBC Scot, office of Printed Press, at the very least the Journalists might Wake up.

  59. Les Wilson says:

    As predicted we can expect more and more of this rubbish and we will get the daily dose from the MSM aka Unionists, from now until September. We need to know it and respond in EVERY way we can. More of us need to get out there and help the cause as much as we can. We have more ground troops so we have that advantage, also we have more Internet savvy people willing to do their bit, that also gives us an advantage. I think that a series of video’s available on all of our websites, youtube, facebook and all other avenues we can find. 

    Video’s like Allan Bisset’s, the rear factory series, Ian Hamilton QC, and many others. Then we also need posters, and as corny as it sounds we should think along the lines of a good hard hitting photo or photo’s of things that are important to Scots. For example I saw the other day a photo of Ravenswood being brought to the ground. That could be a image that would remind people of what can happen and what will happen to Scotland. Overlaid with ” People of Scotland YOUR COUNTRY NEEDS YOU, VOTE YES!. The pictures could vary the message could stay the same. I am sure we could produce things that would appeal to Scottish Pride and point out the injustices we suffer, in order to make people feel offended by Westminster AND it’s proxies. 

    We need to up our game, we need to fight fire with fire, lets get motivated and win this, no matter how we do it. I have long said that If the Scottish people all really see what is going on, they will feel offended and angry, that would produce the YES we need. So gloves off and lets win this.

  60. Bugger [the Panda] says:

    This article should have “paid for by Project No” heading at the top of the page.
    It is shit, naw it is Batshit, naw it is rabid Bayshit but as it is long and in the Sun, I if many of their readers have struggled through it.

  61. Brian Powell says:

    Still no substance from Lamont, Davidson/Rennie or Darling.
     
    The emptiness of Lamont’s statement was worst of all.
     
    The Labour Party in Scotland have had at least two years to bring a plan; their vision of how Scotland could go forward. Before that they thought Independence wouldn’t be an issue or at least a walkover for them, and that they owned the Scottish vote.
     
    Leaders actually need to lead, and for Lamont to still be talking about talking, shows a depth of lack of leadership that is truly breathtaking.
     
    Leadership decisions take place on many levels at teh same time, so the claim that Scotland is on hold really brings to our attention her own inaction and lack of ideas.
     
    Even at Labour in Scotland’s level of depending on Westminster Labour to put forward it’s ‘vision’ for the UK, she should be doing something to make voters feel they can trust what that would be. Doing nothing just doesn’t cut it.
     
    It tells me that they have little and will do little. I think any real activists would be in despair. Trying to win by tactics alone is betraying voters.
     
    Lamont’s speeches come across as one of those CVs written by a professional CV writer. When an employer meets the applicant they often can’t recognise the abilities in the person but claimed in the written CV.

  62. Jingly Jangly says:

    O/T Thatcher tried to secretly cut Scotland’s funding,  Story from Herald

    http://archive.is/RTW2t

  63. Craig M says:

    “when you are paying my wages, I’m sure things will be much different.”Take from that what you will.

    This is simply an admission that the MSM peddle propaganda paid for by the highest bidders, i.e those with vested interests in keeping the Union. Lamont, Rennie and co are just willing foot soldiers for the gangsters that are creating such social carnage and injustices.

  64. desimond says:

    @red squirrel

    regards “Let me remind 4 of you that you were in fact elected to represent Scotland’s interests – not your own”

    I think Ruthie wasnt elected by anyone, including half her own party! Im no sure about Groundspeaker Willie mind?

  65. Jim Duthie says:

    I usually just read/lurk here.  Just thought I’d comment re CT freeze.  Does anyone think Labour will go into 2016 election pledging to raise CT?  I hope they do as they will get slaughtered.  I think the poll which claimed Scots were in favour of CT rise was commissioned by BBC (I may be wrong, if so, apologies) and elicited the response by asking seriously leading questions.  When it comes to the crunch, Scots will not vote for tax increase.

  66. bannock hussler says:

    Could we crowdfund an issue of the Sun? ‘Bought and sold, etc.’
     
    Sun spot for sale! Read all about it!

  67. Papadocx says:

    @Jingly jangly
     
    And that’s Cameron and Osborne’s ROLE MODEL! Think we might be for a kicking.
     

  68. Roboscot says:

    So the unionist are sticking with lies, fears and smears. Excellent!

  69. bunter says:

    Can we do an article we can share, which informs people how Scottish these newspapers and media organisations actually are, who owns them, where their HQs are and contrast with those which are owned, edited and based in Scotland, if there are any. I feel it would help inform who these papers with their wee Saltires at the top really are.

  70. Luigi says:

    It’s now 2014 and the penny seems to have dropped that, with recent poll trends, BT now have one hell of a fight on their hands. They really expected it to be all over by Christmas. Support for Scottish independence was supposed to be way below 20% by now. Unfortunately, things did not pan out as hoped, and they are now cornered, like rats in a trap. The gloves are now off and their lies and distortions are being challenged increasingly, by their YES opponents and also by members of the public who are starting to take an interest in the constitutional debate, as the referendum date approaches. Serious infighting has already begun in the NO camp. Big cracks are also appearing in Scottish Labour. They are now facing one hell of a fight in 2014. This was not supposed to happen, but it has and they now no choice but to go down fighting, lying, squealing, cheating, screaming, and spitting all the way to the 18th September. Things are going to get really ugly this year. You ain’t seen nothing yet! We are winning and they know it.

  71. Sneddon says:

    What puzzles me in this nonsense from Rennie, Jo, Ruthie and Ali is I’ve never heard any one except them preface a description of themselves with the word ‘real’ or describe their nationality as ‘lifelong’.  Which deluded fool is advising them that they should use that language. ‘Real’ Scots or humans can hear BS a mile away and the only ‘real’ problem ‘ordinary’ scots have is having to listen to tis tedious rubbish day after day.  Content free politics, hangings too good for ‘em :)

  72. liz says:

    Just how can JoLa justify herself when she knows what is going to happen in the event of a No vote.
     
    Is she so blind and uncaring that she will support her party at all costs and know that the people of Scotland will suffer badly – it will be a scorched earth policy.
     
    I only hope we can convince the voters of what they are up against.
     
    There are now about 900 lords as opposed to 650 elected MPs – I honestly think we are going back to the 19th century and are going to be ruled by the so called ‘elite’.
    Even the pretence of democracy in this country will finish.

  73. Morag says:

    I asked the Scottish Sun’s political editor why there were four Unionists to one Nat, and why Darling was included rather than, say, Patrick Harvie, the only missing Holyrood leader. His answer was:
    “when you are paying my wages, I’m sure things will be much different.”
    Take from that what you will.
     
    What a fascinating, multi-layered comment.  Bearing in mind also that the Sun was “fighting for Scottish independence” during the 1990s.
     
    Perhaps he envisages a day in the not-too-distant future when RevStu may indeed be paying his wages.

  74. Fergie 35 says:

    Wonder how the BBC and the unionists will get round the live debate when the time comes? Maybe some poison in Eck’s drinking water?

  75. Training Day says:

    It’s good that we have Andy Nicol’s admission that ‘journalism’ in the MSM simply boils down to who supplies the dosh. No regard for establishing truth, analysing facts, suppositions and propositions – far less mounting a challenge to powerful vested interests.

    Quite the reverse. Nicol admits what we all knew – that our MSM journalists will say whatever they’re told to say by the most powerful. Our journalists love to masquerade as questioning, sour, cyncial even – in fact, they are the polar opposite, mere pussycats in Blofeld’s lap.

  76. Ivan McKee says:

    @ Gordoz re Alan Bissett.
     
    Good soundbite : ‘Thats not Devo-Max, its Devo-Tax’
     
    Nicely sums it up, we should use that at every opportunity if/when they come forward with their plans for after a No vote.

  77. handclapping says:

    Ah Ruthie, remember that the commemoration of World War One was to have been building a land fit for heroes to live in? What happened?
    Is ““More than 30 million people ‘suffering some degree of financial insecurity”’; close to 12 million ‘too poor to engage in common social activities’; around four million children and adults who are not properly fed; around 2.5 million children in damp homes; around 1.5 million children ‘in households that cannot afford to heat their home’.” – Poverty and Social Exclusion on the current state of the United Kingdom.” really that land?

    Your lot and your unionist chums have tried and failed, its now our turn. Move over or get run over.

  78. velofello says:

    These proudscots – Lamont,Davidson,Rennie,and Darling will repeat this nonsense over and over until 18 September as they having nothing fresh to offer and much to avoid discussing.
     
    PPI/PFI: The One for the Price of Two scam. PPI/PFI costs in the order of 70% more than customary state funding practises. And who else but the Shameless Two, Brown and Darling are the architects of the scam.
     
    In response to their collective squeals of “why not introduce the free childcare scheme now?” Alex Salmond explained that the cost incurred would fall to Scotlan’s account, whereas the  increased PAYE tax income would go direct to Westminster. Same applies to the Scottish Government’s initiatives on funding apprenticeships  and skills training. The costs fall to Scotland’s account. The resultant reduction in unemployment reduces the Westminster social benefit costs, and the increased employment provides increased PAYE tax income to Westminster.
     
    A sort of Disincentive to Aspire scheme that sits well with Scottish Labour strategy in particular.

  79. david says:

    the quality of the main opposition parties at holyrood is truly appalling. i cringe when i think of johan lamont being seen as a player in our politics. very embarrasing.

  80. Murray McCallum says:

    All of the leaders’ statements could have been written years ago. Johann Lamont’s ability to promise what she doesn’t intend to do is remarkable:
     
    Health Service to work properly – OneNation increased privatisation and fees as already outlined by Andy Burnham MP?
     
    Improving schools – OneNation curriculum, exams, tuition fees and maybe something really radical like Michael Gove’s letters to numbers award system?
     
    Care for our old – UK austerity ethos of work till you die from the Scottish Labour leader who wants to end the “something for nothing” culture.
     
    I think “real” Scots means erasing all our culture and social traditions.

  81. msean says:

    Maybe they should have asked Mr Mundell why,as the ONLY Scottish mp representing a Scottish seat in the largest party in uk govt,why he isn’t Secretary of State for Scotland.lol.

  82. Brian Mark says:

    Well my fellow comrades what would you expect from the rat pack eh?
    Lets take control and deliver the YES vote we all desire, the real question is do we have to answer every shitty comment from the usual suspects?
    My answer would be F**k them and lets get on spreading the ideas within the white paper and the Common Weal. Time is to precious now to engage in a non debate over who said what from Wee Crankie and The White Haired Rat
    Engage in a debate of hope and not negativity for a future independent Scotland!

  83. Ed says:

    I’m getting a ‘Comments closed’ for the previous article (Brand re-imagining). Is that correct?

    Posting my response here instead – please move it to the proper place if possible.

    It’s seems that 2014#3 has been chosen, judging by the banner today. For me, like many others, the winged lion ‘logo’ has always been the weak point in this brilliant site, saying some wrong things about what the site stands for while also saying some of the right things – but not very well.

    Thankfully the vitality of the content has always outweighed the daft branding, but it’s always been in the back of my mind when sharing articles on social networks.

    I have no doubt that the insignia – because that is what it is – often gives a negative impression that must be overcome for people to see the value of the site. Your stats show that despite the weird mix of amateurish typesetting and militaristic symbolism, people are coming here in their thousands – so well done.

    However, it shouldn’t be a binary choice between generic moody skyscape blog banner (2011) and iffy cap badge. Whatever its faults, as many folk have pointed out, the logo is distinctive and now widely recognised, so dispensing with it completely would be counterproductive. And you’re obviously personally quite pleased with it and attached to it.

    So give the winged lion insignia a presence for continuity, but don’t lose out on the benefits of a better-designed visual identity for the site. You can have both.

    Opening it up to contributions is a great idea! What is there to lose?

  84. caz-m says:

    “After the referendum, we will have to come closer together”.
    Johann Lamont.

    The woman has a delusional disorder. She just doesn’t get it. Johann, £1 million pounds wouldn’t bring you and me together. You are finished, deceased, your are no more.

    We need to get out of this abusive marriage, that sees Scotland constantly abused and beaten by the Westminster Government, MSM and BBC Scotland.

    And the dominant partner in this relationship is not going to let you go without trying to destroy you.

  85. Morag says:

    Stu said he was closing the comments “before someone says something that REALLY pisses me off.”
     
    I think you’re living dangerously, I have to say.

  86. gordoz says:

    @Ivan McKee :
    How ordinary Scots can’t see this trap when they support Labour in Scotland still astounds me. Track record and all that. Its like this council tax rubbish & BBC just latch on to Labours mantra as if it must be true.
     
    Ivan:  I really think we need lots of these wee Impact soundbites or vids on websites like WoS to prick the undecideds attention and remind team players for YES of the real dangers of a NO vote that await the unsuspecting and trusting of the populace.
     
    Ive seen your excellent explanatory videos – With your YES profile you should consider a similar wee ‘cutting’ soundbite sometime. Short & sweet. Personally I think they sometimes deliver killer blows where reems & reems of posts & blogs can sometimes fog issues for the general public.

  87. Dick Gaughan says:

    Same old, same old. We can look forward to 9 months of this ridiculous pish being recycled over and over ad nauseum.
     
    Time to really get the gloves off, folks, and send this bunch of careerist, opportunist, trough-wallowing self-seekers and their lackeys into the dustbin of history where they belong. Keep fighting, keep arguing, keep exposing. Don’t even consider for a second the possibility of not winning – we can’t afford not to win, the alternative is too horrific.
     
    “We will drain our dearest veins” and aa that.

  88. Morag says:

    Mind you. if we are harking back to the masthead thing, what i want to know is why it always shows up green for a few seconds while the page is loading.  It’s been doing that since early 2012.

  89. Chickenhawk 2 says:

    And yet the same man did the article titled ‘ The truth about subsidised Scotland’ 31 Aug. 2011.
    One I have made into a folded A4 booklet.

  90. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Rennie: ‘I’ve been checking the tea leaves and it’s going to be a good year.’
     
    Oh help, it’s Gypsy Rose Rennie. What a complete tosser. 
     
    Tell you what Willie, why don’t you get a nice headscarf, a crystal ball, join the nearest circus and just fuck off?

  91. Betsy says:

    O/T
    Although as Ruth mentioned the war not totally irrelevant. There is presently a petition circulating to have war criminal Kitchener taken off the new £2.00 coin.
     
    As we’re being subjected to these tasteless celebrations in 2014 at least, whether we like it or not. We can at least register our disgust at the sheer, mind blowing bad taste of celebrating the start of any conflict, let alone one of the bloodiest and worst in history. 
     
    Petition can be found here: http://tinyurl.com/pn4sdj4

  92. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Mind you. if we are harking back to the masthead thing, what i want to know is why it always shows up green for a few seconds while the page is loading. It’s been doing that since early 2012.”

    That’s just the default background colour it is. It’s an inbuilt setting of the theme. I could probably dig through the CSS code to find a setting to change it, but it doesn’t seem like a massively productive use of my time.

  93. Marian says:

    What a parcel o’ rogues the Project Fear mob are.

    They have nothing positive to say about Scotland or its future.

    It beggars belief that they are still ahead in the polls.

    If it wasn’t for the compliant MSM the Project Fear mob would have been strangled at birth.

  94. Bubbles says:

    At least Oor Wullie seems to be telling the truth for once, if only in part. I believe he really does study tea-leaves. Arse of a man!

  95. Ericmac says:

    Its all about sums.

    NO Votes

    Labour Party Diehards
    The Establishment including MPs
    Those in Scotland comfortably well off through business or career
    The electorate informed by BBC and MSM

    YES

    The populace reached and enlightened by online information
    Scots who have supported independence for decades
    Economists who have examined the facts impartially and recognise that Scotland is better off as an independent entity.

    UNDECIDEDS

    People who suspect that the MSM is delivering propaganda
    The disenfranchised(Its politics)
    The disillusioned (What difference does it make? Not going to change my life)
    The downtrodden (Just trying to survive)
    People without internet connection

  96. ronnie anderson says:

    Ian Brotherhood, Wullie Rennie,s crystal baws ur in a tangle, awe chipped an in a fankle, jist lay doon Wullie, there,s a big steam roller comeing,tae end oor pain, and fur you n yer Crystal Baws tae Mangle.

  97. Morag says:

    That’s just the default background colour it is. It’s an inbuilt setting of the theme. I could probably dig through the CSS code to find a setting to change it, but it doesn’t seem like a massively productive use of my time.
     
    I didn’t suggest changing it.  I just wondered why it did that.  Thanks.

  98. Murray McCallum says:

    I see Wullie Rennie more as a target in the coconut shy than as a mystic. Maybe he could do both?
     
    Trust Wullie Rennie to undercut and steal hard working circus act jobs. The man has no shame.

  99. When the hell are these Proudscotbutts going to tell us whit they are going to dae to improve the lives the Scottish People?

  100. Bubbles says:

    Can someone let me know when it becomes safe to call these people out as the traitors they are? Oops!

  101. Jimsie says:

    Gordoz I saw this piece. Further evidence of BBC Jockland in bed with Labour. What was laughable was that they couldn”t find a punter on the street to say they wanted a council tax rise!

  102. Morag says:

    You know, I usually shy well clear of criticising politicians’ appearance, but that photo of Lamont is absolutely dreadful.  If there was any truth to the story that she’d had some sort of makeover, it didn’t take.  Like it or not, image is important in this media-dominated age.  What on earth are her advisers thinking of?

  103. Jimsie says:

    @Morag. Who is her dentist?

  104. gordoz says:

    @Jimsie
    The BBC are up to their necks in it with Labour.

    It was a laugh hearing them trying to lead the public to say something like,
    “Aye son am aw fur payin’ more fur ma coocnil tax &  that Salmonds a wee fat devil bastert isn’t he no ?”

    But like you I noticed that wasn’t the case.  Nae luck Naebour & BBC North Britain.

  105. david says:

    morag, i believe her truly ugly nasty personality manifests into her physical appearance. 

  106. desimond says:

    @ In Brotherhood

    Ian, following your Wullie Rennie request above, can you please tell me where I should send you this invoice for 1 new monitor, 1 keyboard and 1 cup of tea.

    Brilliant!

  107. desimond says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    Ian, following your Wullie Rennie request above, can you please tell me where I should send you this invoice for 1 new monitor, 1 keyboard and 1 cup of tea.

    Brilliant!

  108. Morag says:

    @Morag. Who is her dentist?
     
    That was the bit I was pointedly not saying.  Cosmetic dental work should be de rigeur for someone in her position.
     
    morag, i believe her truly ugly nasty personality manifests into her physical appearance.
     
    Be careful.  Some people cannot help the way they look.  Are you going to say that everyone who looks unattractive has a personality to match?

  109. Susan says:

    I find it very difficult to maintain any respect for Ms Lamont as the leader of the opposition Party after her comment regarding Alex Salmond (who has been democraticaly elected by the people of Scotland to run our country).

  110. desimond says:

    @ Morag

    Be careful.  Some people cannot help the way they look.  Are you going to say that everyone who looks unattractive has a personality to match?

    That reminds me folks…Ken Dodd died.
    :-)

  111. Gray says:

    I have to admit I thought the wee writing underneath JoLa’s picture said Labour’s Lament until I gave my specs a clean.

  112. Gray says:

    @desimond
     
    Did he? .. no Doddy .. old ones are the best :P

  113. wee_monsieur says:

    Stu,  I’m  big fan of this site, but the caption in the first picture (hover over to see it) is unbecoming of you. Johann Lamont is a wife and a mother.
     
    Whither http://wingsoverscotland.com/alex-salmond-dictator-comparison-bingo/? Just because one party leader is seen as fair game for personal insults, doesn’t mean we have to join in.

  114. Andrew Morton says:

    BTW I’m wiling to ante up a fair wedge of cash to employ a brand consultant to look at the logo, so that’s two of us now. Anybody else willing to pitch in? 

  115. Tamson says:

    @liz re the House of Lords:
     
    Did you know the HoL is the second-largest House of any Parliament in the entire world? Only China’s National Party Congress has more members.
     
    Even more comically, do you know who the only elected Lords are? The hereditary ones! We still have 92 hereditary peers with voting rights, and new ones are elected from the aristocracy when old ones die.

  116. Christmas Beastie says:

    The Sun changes it’s stance depending on which way the Emperor decides the wind is blowing.
    Don’t forget that whilst they were chanting for independence in the Nineties they were running pre-election front pages with the SNP logo as a noose in 2007. Now they are ‘officially’ undecided, not that you could tell from a summary glance at their pages.

    Who pays the wages? Emperor Murdoch. And his mates in the Westminster are pretty well known so it’s little surprise it’s prone to printing the same old bullshit right on queue.

    Off topic… noted the BBC saying a high percentage of Scots would support higher council tax. Anyone at WoS seen any further detail on the poll they’re quoting? Because the BBC are not exactly known for publishing the full details and I’d kinda like to see someone with a more critical eye than BBC Scotland political hacks issuing an analysis.

  117. westie7 says:

    IF, after any of this, anybody from Yes or the SNP stands by their assertion that there is not a bias in the media, I will personally buy them a one way rail ticket to Carstairs

  118. Murray McCallum says:

    What is this “hover over to see it” thing that people on this site keep harking on about?
     
    I personally think she looks like a Bond villain in the picture.

  119. Stuart Black says:

    Murray, hold your mouse cursor over the picture to see the caption.

  120. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Morag
    I am uneasy about people using someone`s physical appearance against them. Having said that I think it is OK when it is something avoidable like rotten teeth and salad dodging. 

  121. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Stu, I’m big fan of this site, but the caption in the first picture (hover over to see it) is unbecoming of you. Johann Lamont is a wife and a mother.”

    Och away and stop being daft. Blofeld wasn’t known for being ugly or anything. It’s just a spooky resemblance based largely on what she’s wearing. Tell me I’m wrong:

    https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ernst+stavro+blofeld&espv=210&es_sm=93&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=h8jGUtyqJYHN0QXYvYDoDA&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1223&bih=904

  122. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “That reminds me folks…Ken Dodd died.”

    Is that right?

    #terribleatjokes

  123. Murray McCallum says:

    Stuart Black
    Aahhh! I’ll look up who ‘Ernst Stavro Blofeld’ is when I get home.

  124. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “I think you’re living dangerously, I have to say.”

    You think correctly. If I close a comment thread – which I think I’ve done three times in over two years – it’s NOT because I want people to continue the conversation in another bloody thread.

  125. Wee_monsieur says:

    ” It’s just a spooky resemblance based largely on what she’s wearing. Tell me I’m wrong:”
     
    Hmmm.  That’s not what I took from the comment.  Anyway, a whole load of other comments were starting to get nasty.  Let’s keep away from the personal stuff, folks.

  126. Clootie says:

    gordoz hit the point I was going to make.
    Yes I agree with the imbalance and bias comments.
    It is when you read the full comments by each to be included in the release. Although I disagree with the unionist statements they are stating their case. However Johann Lamont’s comments are immature gutter speak – can you imagine her as First Minister. This language in a prepared statement to the press is unworthy of any politician.
    We will all have to work together after the result – does this sound like a person willing to compromise and work with others. I’m afraid not it will be a gloating victor or a bitter enemy. I don’t see the qualities of a leader here.  
     

  127. Callum Macdonald says:

    It is absolutely scandalous that you cannot provide some fair reporting of the Referendum and, in particular, the fact that there are 4 representatives from the Better Together side and only one from the Yes Scotland side is shocking.

  128. Training Day says:

    I wouldn’t worry too much about BBC Scotland ‘polls’ re the council tax.  They tried the same thing in the weeks leading up to 2011, with Toodle-oo-the-noo claiming that people would be delighted to pay more for local services via the tax (and incidentally claiming that Labour’s policy on ‘knife crime’ was playing well on the doorsteps – remember that?).  Look where that got them.  This is just bog standard BBC/Labour pish.
     
    Oh, and here’s a wee flavour of the way the wind’s blowing for the people who pay Andy Nicol’s wages:  My brother in law tells me that at the New Year Party he attended the other night (a party held in an area which you’d be unlikely to characterise as fertile territory for independence supporters) people are slowly but surely getting to grips with the issues, and as they do they are leaning very definitely to Yes.  He put the split at about 3:1 in favour of Yes.

  129. Indy_Scot says:

    It would be interesting to know how much would it cost to buy the Sun’s political editor, and if he would be good value for money.

  130. Wee_monsieur says:

    Sorry to harp back at the previous topic, but since you’re on a ‘re-fresh’, could you please move the Sealand Gazette further down the page? It seems a bit incongruous to have a union flag so prominent on this site.

  131. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Sent the below to several organs. Signs however of the issue backfiring on BBC Scotland this morning I’m told

    “Any result from the COSLA sponsored survey on the Council Tax is completely undermined by the question that was devised for it. As leading questions go this was a masterpiece and it would be very difficult indeed for any unsuspecting victim of it to answer in any other manner than was the obviously deliberate expectation of those who set it up.

    “I would be willing to pay more council tax if I was certain the money raised was spent on local services such as schools and care for older people” is about as contentious as “I would like my dinner to be well cooked, tasty and served on a plate and not in the dog’s dish” and the only surprise about the solicited response is that 33% could be found to disagree with it.
    I wonder how much money COSLA splashed out on such nonsense .

    Here’s another question COSLA might like to ask.

    “As I understand that around only15% of the funding for local government services is actually supplied by the Council Tax which bears no relationship to any person’s ability to pay and which allows a household with several wage earners to pay the same as a struggling senior citizen now alone in the family home do you agree that the council tax be abolished and replaced by a fairer form of tax such as a local income tax?”

    And here’s another one.

    “I am aware that the SNP Scottish Government fully understands the unfairness of the council tax, has therefore frozen it for seven years by giving cash compensation to Scottish councils and has tried to have it replaced by a local income tax, a measure which was opposed by both Labour and the Tories in the Scottish Parliament and made impossible by the Westminster Government who threatened to withdraw a very significant sum in council tax benefit from the Scottish block grant if the SNP brought in LIT.  Don’t you agree therefore that only independence will allow us to effectively deal with this issue?”

     

    I look forward to such surveys being organized.”

  132. Indy_Scot says:

    I’ve got an idea, why don’t we pay his wages a week before the referendum and then the Sun can say “It’s The Sun Wot Won It“.
     
    It’s a win win situation.

  133. Midgehunter says:

    Who let JoLa out of the body-bag, err sorry I meant bunker. Ruthie does have a nice smile though.

  134. desimond says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill

    Now that was crying out for double carriage returns!!
    :-)

  135. desimond says:

    Just realised what those images above reminded me of…first Johann and then No-Oor Wullie

    Anyone ever watch the Simpsons : Bumper book of British Smiles

  136. gordoz says:

    Wee_monsieur
    I think thats a good point actually (the old UJ does put some off Im told)

  137. Edward says:

    I noticed Darling uttering this morning on GMS that tax raising powers will be coming to Scotland in 2 years time. He seemed quite animated about this

    Excuse me though BUT. As far as I am aware the ‘additional’ tax raising powers will not replace existing PAYE , but will add a layer on top. PAYE will continue to flow to the London Treasury and any additional tax will go to the Scottish Government. Not only that but I also believe that the block grant will be ‘adjusted’ downward by the same level that the additional tax is raised. So Scots will not be better off but will continue to subsidise England

    Have I got that right? If I have I think the rest of the country should be made aware.

  138. G H Graham says:

    Lamont now bears a striking resemblance to bleached Ed Bishop, who played Commander Straker, the star of the 1970s show, “UFO”.
     
    In the series, Straker completely sacrificed his personal life for the organisation & it was often suggested that there was no realistic prospect of Straker’s circumstances ever improving.
     
    Coincidence?

  139. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    Right. The next 20 people who post comments without paragraph breaks are getting all the sodding spaces edited out.

  140. desimond says:

    Nick Griffin has been declared bankrupt and is to release a booklet on handling debt,

    You can do you own colour \ money  punchlines folks.

  141. kininvie says:

    O/T
     
    I see that the Effie Deans blog has come back to life with a piece on how scaremongering isn’t scaremongering after all.  Anyone wish to find some useful examples to rebut the argument?
     
    http://effiedeans.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/why-nationalist-accusations-of.html?showComment=1388763396540#c6340232831144387575

  142. Jimsie says:

    Davidsons piece ends “the people of Scotland will vote to keep our country together”. Since when was Britain a country.

  143. Jim Mitchell says:

    Let’s lighten up on  Johann folks, I mean she was brilliant on Only an Excuse the other night, I thought it was her best speech in ages.

  144. Ian Brotherhood says:

    re ‘personal comments’ -
     
    It’s one thing to make disparaging remarks about someone’s physical appearance, but that should not be confused with getting stuck into these people when they show such contempt for the electorate.
     
    If Willie Rennie feels that it’s appropriate to joke about imaginary powers of clairvoyance in what is meant to be a serious statement, then he deserves to be pilloried. That man – alongside Lamont and Gray and Baillie - makes the Scottish Parliament a laughing stock, so we’re entitled to use every tool at our disposal to get rid of them all.
     
    In any case, I don’t know Rennie, and have no beef with him. He might well be a perfectly decent human being and a good laugh down the pub. But that’s neither here nor there. I just want him and his ilk to go away and let serious, professional people get on with building a decent nation.

  145. magnus barelegs says:

    no such country as britain never has been and never will be its a political construct and nothing else. maybe anti-scots like davidson should check the facts before spouting cr@p.

  146. X_Sticks says:

    desimond says:

    “Nick Griffin has been declared bankrupt”

    He’s been morally bankrupt for quite a while.

  147. JimW says:

    I have been thinking for some time of sending you a contribution. This just made up my mind for me.

  148. muttley79 says:

    Lamont’s and Andy Nicholl’s comments show what we are up against: vested interests in full scale self preservation mode.  A disgraceful lot who are entirely self serving.  Lamont’s belief that Scotland can prosper without having the full powers of independence is delusional and absolutely astounding.  It flies in the face of basic common sense and political realities. The Unionists/MSM think so much of Scotland that they are intent on keeping us from joining all the other self governing nations in the world. 

  149. magnus barelegs says:

    reunionistsandselfpreservation-theyremindmesomuchofthecommunistsintheussrandweknowwhathappenedtothem!!
    surelyfolkarestartingtoseethroughtheirliesandnonsense.

  150. john king says:

    “Ruthie does have a nice smile though.”
     
    You fancy Ruthie?
    you do know she bats ahem for the other side?

  151. Robert Kerr says:

    John King
     
    But which side does she dress on?
     
    Enough!

  152. john king says:

    Disturbingly I could read Magnus Barelegs comment no bother, too much Stanley Baxter in the Sunday post when I was a lad obviously

  153. EdinScot says:

    Those statements by the Unionist Britnat leaders are as good as it gets.  Its the same old regurgitated flannel they were dribbling about in 2013.  Its now becoming perfectly clear that this refererendum on indpendence is the unionists achilles heal.  I mean its looking like for all the world as if theyre struggling to get out of first gear, its well and truly caught them short.  The nearer we get to the big day, there will be no hiding place as the worlds spotlight will fall on Scotland.   Crunch time are we to remain a region within the UK or become an independent nation in our own right.  The message should be a simple one to all people in Scotland.
     
    As for Andy Nicholl, political editor of the Sun, you know he’s either taken leave of his senses or is spinning for all his worth for dear old broken blighty when he rates Lamont 9 points out of ten for his special brand of analysis that has him saying she beats Salmond every other week.  Aye right Andy, keep taking the medication.  There is already stiff competion for the comical ali award for most bizzare dribblings within the Unionist camp.  Its even funnier than the charade that his rag The Sun is a neutral bystander in this campaign when their southern cousin is true blue uber right wing Tory right down to its bootstraps.  Who’s kidding who.  Lets reach as many people here with the truth as we can then we can bring this thing home and confine the joke opposition  and lying msm to the rubbish bin where there they belong.

  154. john king says:

    I would be surprised if it were on the left Robert

  155. Andy-B says:

    I’d better get this right after the doing I got over my last comment though the hangover has abated a bit. Posting a comment whlst wearing beer goggles is a no no,I’m prett sure theres a lesson to be learned some where in it all.
     
    As for Lamont, Rennie and Davidson, their mug shots wouldn’t look out of place in Interpols data base. If Lamont gets her way on September the 19th god help us all her something for nothing speech will be hailed as a game winner.

  156. Les Wilson says:

    I listened to Call Kay this morning while doing other things. In ref to the poll about 2 thirds of Scots want to pay more for Council Services, well it did not work out the way they hoped, despite several planted Councillors. Derek McKay did well in answering to comments. I think, that despite the “iffy” poll, they are left with the message that Scots like the frozen Council tax. Maybe they remember how much it went up when labour was in charge! 

  157. HandandShrimp says:

    O/T
     
    On the brand thing I have a slight preference for #4.

  158. HandandShrimp says:

    Les
     
    I can’t get my head around Labour’s position on the Council Tax. They keep making snide comments about it being undemocratic or something but the moment there is an election they offer a freeze. Didn’t whatever her name was that won Dunfermline issue a leaflet making just such a pledge?

  159. velofello says:

    An appeal: quit comments on physical appearance, it leaves us all open to well-aimed and justified criticism. Buddhist saying, I think, “remove your skin bag, how beautiful do you look now?”.
     
    Lamont provides plenty of scope for satire with her Jack Bennyesque right hand gestures, her glum expressionless and her insincerity. Her behaviour at FMQ and her poisonous comments to Alex Salmond such as “as a mother” knowing he has no children are as potentially hurtful as comments on a person’s appearance.Just as a person on becoming a pensioner doesn’t mean they suddenly become nice and Granma/Grandaddy, similarly just because someone is a wife and mother doesn’t necessarily mean their are nice and caring –  and aspiring to serve the impoverished public that voted her to power. 
     
    So fire away folks with as much biting satire on Lamont as you can muster.

  160. CameronB says:

    So a COSLA sponsored poll found that we want to pay more tax to local government? Well, there’s a surprise.
     
    I haven’t read any background or analysis on this, and haven’t really followed COSLAs’ comments on the subject. Have COSLA accepted that a cobbled together re-hash of a disastrous local taxation system, which was considered not-fit-for-purpose by a Royal Commission a little over a decade before it was first imposed on Scotland, is the best that can be? Is this the best of all possible worlds?
     
    How do you privatise democracy? Incrementally, and by first undermining the power base of your opposition. Bleed them dry so they can’t put up a resistance.
     
    How do you boil a frog? Slowly.

  161. Thepnr says:

    Worth watch this two minute video from STV on Lamont’s “something for nothing” gaff. It shows how well she performs outside her comfort zone of Holyrood and is so disastrous I almost felt sorry for her.
     
     http://news.stv.tv/politics/191807-labour-leader-johann-lamont-demands-end-to-something-for-nothing-culture/
     
    This leader is Labour in Scotlands biggest liability, long may she reign and please can the media provide as many opportunities as possible between now and the referendum decision for interviews and appearances on telly.
     
    She does not have to debate with anyone, she is incapable of winning an argument with herself.

  162. Ken500 says:

    @ HandandShrimp 3 January 2014 at 5.12pm

    ‘I can’t get my head around Labour’s position on Council Tax’

    It’s easy she lies.

  163. Ken500 says:

    Lamentable the ‘speech’ writer/s aren’t sacked. Turgid An affront.

  164. HandandShrimp says:

    Ken
     
    I guess that is so but there isn’t even the good grace to make allowances for the fact that we can read their leaflets or that we might have an attention span that surpasses that of a gold fish. It is incredibly insulting.

  165. Les Wilson says:

    Looking at Lamont’s photograph at the top, is certainly not one I would my grandchildren to see before they go to bed !

  166. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Since I never got a chance to comment on the re-brand thingie.
     
    Think Kenny Everett at a Tory party conference.

  167. Chic McGregor says:

    There are some very bad, very evil people out there and at some point we have to start calling it like it is.

  168. gordoz says:

    @Thepnr – Aye … always respect intellect when it takes the shaking of hands to remember what your meant to be discussing. Lamont a politician ? First Minister material ?
     
    @velofello – Agree after her sly comments the woman is fair game.
     
    Labour supporters come on defend the evident intellect that is your leader !
     
    Question : In light of Andrew Nicholls comments to Rev Stu and Nicholls backing for Ms Lamont as best debater at Holyrood (thats right debater of the year ?).
     
    Should we conclude that she must be Nicholls current paymaster ?

  169. Robert Kerr says:

    Vis-a-vis JoLa’s dentistry. Let’s not forget the comments on Gordon Brown’s new teeth.
     
    Forget their features, “there is no art to find the mind’s construction in the face”
     
    As Chic says there are some really evil people out there and their physiognomy can hide it well.
     
    Attack the arguments and philosophy or whatever but not how the person looks.

  170. handclapping says:

    @Conan
    Would he have had fun playing Ruthie? Unboggle your mind.
    Or the Spanish agent’s secret meeting with Auntie Annabel?

  171. gordoz says:

    Will come back when theres a new feature – sick of looking at the mugshots of the guilty parties.

  172. Chic McGregor says:

    OT a bit.
     
    T-shirt Slogan time.(revisited)
     
    “Status Quo?  then DON’T vote NO.”
     
    “Kill a Country, vote No.”
     
    ” NO means NO.  
    No free prescriptions
    No free health care for the elderly
    No free tuition fees
    No universal child nursery provision
    No Scotland”
     
    “Vote NO if you want radical changes (in a very bad way)”
     
    “I’m voting Yes.  Don’t blame me for the aftermath if there is a No result.”
     
    “You are being Lied to, and you know it.
     Get the real facts on line.
    (while you still can).”
     
    “Informationally disadvantaged?
    Fed up with all the lies?
    Get on line for the truth”

  173. muttley79 says:

    I see Thatcher tried to cut the Scottish budget in the 1980s, without actually informing us.  Vote No and get the same old, same old.

  174. Norrie, that’s a belter.

  175. Alasdair Reid says:

    JoLa looks increasingly like the character from the krankies.
    How can anyone take this woman seriously, just the idea of her ever getting close to being First Minister makes me ashamed to be Scottish.

  176. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    @Handclapping.
     
    I’m sure he would have done it in the best possible taste.

  177. Ken500 says:

    The majority do not want to pay more Council Tax

    Willie Young ACC – ‘It’s getting really bad no, things are getting very tight. There will only enough for the basics – no extras’.

    Young/Crockett Labour Unionists refused a GIFT of £50million from Ian Wood for the UTG Project, supported by the majority. It would have pedestrianise and regenerated the City Centre and increased revenues. There is traffic chaos.

    Young/Crockett LabourUnionist leaders are spending £33Million putting a tier on an Art Gallery, totally unnecessary, without any consultation. It will destroy the interior and the unique marble staircase. They have spent £26Million paying off debts of a private company, the AECC.

    They intend getting a Construction Co to build totally unrequired Offices, and shutting off an essential road, which will cause further traffic chaos, The citizens are then advised to take the bus. When do they take the bus? They intend leasing back the unnecessary Offices using Council tax i.e. public money for 35 years – costing £Millions.

    A total waste of £Millions of Council taxayers money, but claim they need a council tax increase because they can’t provide essential services. Formerly they spent £85Million renovating luxurious council offices and nearly bankrupted the City.

    ACC, the laughing stock of Aberdeen, not fit for governance,

  178. david says:

    JoLa looks increasingly like the character from the krankies.How can anyone take this woman seriously, just the idea of her ever getting close to being First Minister makes me ashamed to be Scottish.
     
    same here, she has nothing.

  179. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    This is exactly what the Labour leaflet said in the Dunfernline by election
    “Labour froze Council Tax first. We continue to support a freeze”

  180. john king says:

    I can read the tea leaves Norrie
    I saw the word ARSE  in that cup, 
    did anyone else see it?

  181. IainGraysSubwayLament says:

    “Good soundbite : ’Thats not Devo-Max, its Devo-Tax’

    Nicely sums it up, we should use that at every opportunity if/when they come forward with their plans for after a No vote.”
     
    Excellent. It should also be highlighted as Westminster’s Devo-Tax, London’s Devo-Tax or London Labour’s Devo-Tax.
     
    If someone could come up with a concise snappy line to follow it explaining why increased tax powers is a pathetic con-trick without the ability to use those taxes to change welfare, defence and the other non-devolved areas then that would be even better.

  182. john king says:

    STVnews,
    ononehandpeoplearefindingithardertopaytheirmortgagesbutheyontheotherhandapollbyCOSLAfindsthey’rewillingtopaymoreoncounciltax,
    dotheyhearthemselves?
    dotheyknowotherpeoplecanhearthem?

  183. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Lamont: ‘...the prize at the end of it will be great.’
     
    What prize is she on about? Does anyone know? Does she?
     
    It’s when Lamont and her wretched BT chums try to do an Obama that they most spectacularly expose themselves for the political pygmies they are – words like ‘hope’, ‘vision’, ‘faith’ cannot be deployed convincingly by someone who doesn’t possess any of those qualities. If Lamont has made one genuinely constructive contribution to the discussion on Scotland’s future, it’s passed us all by.
     
    But that’s just cynical, eh? – no doubt she will provide us with some detail about this great ‘prize’ she sees glittering on the horizon.

  184. Ken500 says:

    Thatcher did secretly cut Scotland’s budget, and gave instructions to keep it secret. The relevant documents have just been released. Thatcher took the Oil Tax revenues, the equivalent of £Billion. Cancelled a Gas Pipe line wasting the equivalent of £Billions. Spent the Oil Tax revenues on major schemes in London S/E e,g. Canary Wharf, Tilbury Docks, and subsidising tax evasion in the City of London.

    Thatcher’s scorch earth policy in Scotland, destroyed every major manufacturing facility, the coal, steel, and vehicle industry etc. Closed the smelter plant. Now coal is much cheaper than Gas/fuels.

    Thatcher caused over 3million unemployed and interest rates were at 15%. Thatcher demutualised the Building Societies owned by their members. These allowed the Tory Bankers to buy them over and gamble the mortgage books. Deregulated the Banking sector, along with
    Reagan etc..which eventually led to the Banking Crash.

    Here it comes again.

  185. Paula Rose says:

    O/T – Wow, love that new logo, lovely dancing lion about to fly, beautiful, Rev xx.

  186. Frankie goes to Holyrood says:

    O/T on “Brand re-imagining”
    SORRY that I am so late in this Stu – I have been too busy on the Scotsman comments session :-)
    I REALLY like the first one, with the feeling on a new dawn at the right hand side.  I would, however, make the “Wings over Scotland” text a little bigger and maybe a little lighter (perhaps a compromise of #1 and #2).
    I would buy a T-shirt with that!
     

  187. Paula Rose says:

    Is this the reference – lovely clean lines on the wings…
     
    http://wharferj.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/oscar-wildes-tomb-by-jacob-epstein/

  188. Derek says:

    < “when you are paying my wages, I’m sure things will be much different.”Take from that what you will. >

     
    Whoever pays the paper calls the tune (to misspell slightly)?

  189. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Wee reminder about the April 4th Glasgow meeting: if you seriously think you’d be up for it, please let me know over in Quarantine before the week-end’s done. 
     
    Already have 30 ‘names’, but few have said if they’ll be bringing other folk. If it’s fair to assume that even half of you do bring a partner or pal, then I add the folk I know are cert but don’t comment here, that’s pushing the number up nearer 60, which could be close to the maximum allowed in McGinn’s upstairs. We may need somewhere bigger.
     
    So, please, please, let me know via Quarantine or message me directly, as I’d like to get the place, or another one if necessary, booked asap – ian [at] stevenston4 [dot] fsnet [dot] co [dot] uk

  190. bald eagle says:

    im sorry rev 
    but every time i see jolas coupon 
     
    i get this great urge to teach my arse to sing
     

  191. Chic McGregor says:

    “I can read the tea leaves Norrie
    I saw the word ARSE in that cup,
    did anyone else see it?”
    :)
     
    Mystic Mug?

  192. Chic McGregor says:

    P.S. Hooer Wullie not you Norrie   :)

  193. Dcanmore says:

    @Ken500…
     
    also Ken, how many of her lickspittal Scottish Tory politicians were complicit in thieving Scotland’s cash; Rifkind, Campbell, Lang, Forsyth, Younger, Taylor, Monro, Buchanan-Smith (mostly all became ‘Lords’ for their efforts) et all.

  194. Chic McGregor says:

    P.S.2 or you John (I’ve wiped my specs now)

  195. bald eagle says:

    jiggsbro
    brand re-imagining@10.18pm
    monkeys down plugholes what are you on and where did you get it
     
    man in the jar
    brand re-imagining@2.24am
    whats with the long site thingy are you selling telescopes

  196. Albamac says:

    @ronald alexander mcdonald
     
    “cement our place in the United Kingdom”
     
    Labour Mafia and cement?  Mind your feet folks!

  197. velofello says:

    Warming to the task gals and guys? – Rennie’s new mug; Mystic Mug;great urge to teach my arse to sing.
    It isn’t just Lamont. Observe Pia when he is on STV’s tonight program. Greasy is my response. Magrit Curran? Sincerity Murphy? 
     
    And with ScotLabour’s  Better Together strategy of linking with the – one MP in Scotland – Tories they have given that party of little support in Scotland the oxygen of publicity.
     
    When the audience start to jeer and laugh at you, exit stage left.

  198. Lochside says:

    I’m afraid the ugliness of the assorted rat-pack of Lamont,Davidson,Rennie and Darling is not purely physical, it’s worse than that: it’s a metaphysical foulness, emanating from their stinking, and rotten dishonest core inner selves.

    Lying to and cheating their countrymen and women; vilifying AS at the most personal and malicious level has now distorted their public images in the eyes of at least half of the Scottish electorate.Well, hell mend them!

    As noted , a guid New year was greeted to us all by the BBC in Scotland with its bogus ‘poll’ about the council tax. When are we collectively going to do something publicly about this poisonous cesspit of propaganda?

    I know it has been explored in depth, on here, that apparently, there is no recourse to legal or political action to challenge  it. There are many who advocate non-payment of the licence. That I would gladly do, if there was a mass agreement to campaign to do so.

    There also appears to be no appetite for mass demonstrations outside the BBC. What about petitions to Westminster? I don’t believe that this war can be won via the internet and chapping doors as per ‘YES’ campaign. Suggestions please, as talking to ourselves on these sites will not be sufficient to work on its own!

  199. Dorothy Devine says:

    Chic I wish I’d written that!

  200. Ken500 says:

    @ Ian Brotherhood

    Where is McGinns in Glasgow? If possible, might try to make it.

    If the venue is changed, please give details.

  201. Ken500 says:

    Any MSM programme/Press not to your liking, do not buy it or watch it. That is the only way anything will change. Low viewing figures, low readership means heads will rolls.That is how these corporations are run.

    There are plenty of alternative sources.

    One MSM Press outlet in Scotland – low share value – could easily be bought up by Independence supporters, who could change/influence the editorial line.

  202. Graeme McCormick says:

    As Glasgow Cathedral is owned by Historic Scotland on behalf of the Scottish Government I trust the Scottish Government will ensure that it will make the arrangements for the WW1 commemoration in Glasgow.

  203. Lochside says:

    Another thing that is bugging me is that Ruth Davidson is getting away with this shite about ‘celebrating’ the start of ww1. Well maybe it’s time it was trumpeted loud and clear to this idiot that Scotland’s shameful loss of 147,000 war dead had the highest ratio of mortality in Europe apart from the Serbs. Why don’t they spend some of the budget on Armed Forces day on putting up the true figure of war dead on the monument in George Square? Every time I look at the number engraved of 20,000, I feel like grueing. Try 30,000 and you might be somewhere near it!
    The loses sustained disproportionately by Scotland in that totally unnecessary war damaged us beyond measure. Add in the subsequent  economic depression and mass emigration, then it’s no wonder it took until the ’60s for us to get our self-respect and sense of self back. Yet this selfseeking little nonentity wants us to celebrate it!
    The fact that she chooses to push Armed force day over Bannockurn’s 700th centenary shows her up for the true undiluted traitor she really is. Add in the revelations about  her ancestral boss Thatcher’s antics of thirty years ago and if she had any shame, she’d go back to auditioning for voiceover jobs.

  204. Ken500 says:

    @ Dcanmore 3 January, 2014 at 8.06pm

    Where to start?

    One of Thatcher’s Minister’s resigned when she cancelled the Gas Pipe line. It wasted, the equivalent, of £Billions of Gas. The Gas was burnt off for years. Thatcher off- shored the vast Oil revenues. She actually created a special (non existent) offshore shelf to manipulate the Oil revenues from Scotand, all done in complete secrecy. Thatcher became, a multi-millionairess.

    People in Scotland struggled with deprivation and poverty. Deja Vu.

  205. CameronB says:

    @ Lochside
    There are many who advocate non-payment of the licence. That I would gladly do, if there was a mass agreement to campaign to do so.
     
    Ever considered why the MSM, and especially the BBC, does not publish ‘news ‘ about the public’s lack of trust in them as institutions? Silly question that, as you are here and sufficiently interested to comment. However, I thought I should ask, as the one thing Wings has done very effectively, is to highlight how the MSM & BBC peddle slanted opinion presented as impartial analysis. It would not be in their best interest to draw this to the attention of those less politically tuned-in. How would a mass campaign be publicised amongst those not on t’internet?
     
    What’s stopping you from taking INDEPENDENT action yourself, now?
     
    If their was a mass campaign for Scottish independence, I might vote Yes. Then along comes an SNP majority government and offers a choice that Westminster and Whitehall did not think would ever be placed before the Scottish public.
     
    Funny that. Let’s not waste the opportunity.

  206. john king says:

    me @7.25 what?
    what did I do,
     your just picking people at random arnt you?
    ah kin still read it.

  207. Papadocx says:

    Whatever happened to that other stalwart of capitalism Harold Wilson. He led the crew that decided to play down the value of our oil (re Dennis Healy) or to be more precise just told a pack of lies, and pocketed it anyway. They are all the F****** same.
     
    Then we had the pound in your pocket shit, after he had to de value it. They can lie to their back teeth and even when they are rumbled they don’t even get a red face. Just stick their hand out for more bungs.
     
    Then again Harold got out one step ahead of the posse when there was a witch hunt on for the missing soviet spy when Mr Blunt was exposed, they probably new about him for years just didn’t want to upset HMQ, as he was one of her hangers on And part of the establishment.
     
    Harold & Mary were ensconced on the silly isles (appropriate), never to be herd of again, just like Napoleon. In one hundred years hence I,m sure a story will leak out, but all the main characters will be long gone.
     
    Tories, labour, liberals they are the scum of the earth. They know the truth otherwise how could they be so astute at avoiding it. 
     
    We need a clean new system which we can trust and that works for all our citizens. This Westminster system is rancid, corrupt evil and slanted against the ordinary people.
     
    I saw Daring Alistair being fronted by the Dundee Dumplin, same old load of nonsense he’s been spitting for the last year and it really is drivel. A load of waffle, if that keeps the mentally challenged BT mob happy then that explains a lot. YES SCOTLAND. I AINT A PROUD SCOT I’m A TRUE SCOT AND PROUD OF IT.o
     

  208. Jingly Jangly says:

    Ken500
    It was not Thatcher that “invented” the UK Continental Shelf to park Oil and Gas revenues so that they did not appear on the “Scottish” books. It was that great Labour Socialist Anthony Wedgewood Benn.
    Whilst Thatcher and Co can be blamed for many an Anti-Scottish policy, its our old friends the Labour Party who really put the screws in!!!!

  209. Chic McGregor says:

    Jingly
    “It was not Thatcher that “invented” the UK Continental Shelf to park Oil and Gas revenues so that they did not appear on the “Scottish” books. It was that great Labour Socialist Anthony Wedgewood Benn.
    Whilst Thatcher and Co can be blamed for many an Anti-Scottish policy, its our old friends the Labour Party who really put the screws in!!!!”
     
    Just like how Tony Blair PM (anag. of I’m Tory Plan B) was able to put through things Thatcher could only dream of and currently how Cameron and co. are able to do things with the LibDems in coalition they could never have managed on their own even if they had had a stonking majority. e.g. amongst many that could be cited Theresa May’s intent to be the first ‘democratic’ European country to pull out of the human rights’ treaty, which would normally have had an opposition LibDem party screaming blue (sic) murder.

  210. Chic McGregor says:

    Papadocx
     
    TBF to Harold Wilson, austerity and devaluation then still made sense in that there was still a genuine wealth creation infrastructure in the UK which could respond.
     
    Thatcher’s insane Austrian School adherence, funded by North Sea Oil, put paid to that possibility.

  211. bald eagle says:

    HELP NEEDED
     
    can anybody tell me how to put videos and stuff on here.im just new to this 
     
    please john king dont answer this just keep taking the medication
    john have you got a split personality if so do you get two wages

  212. CameronB says:

    Re. local government finance and Thatcher’s insane Austrian School theocracy (remember “there is no alternative”). I do not think it can be stressed too often or too strongly, just what mortal enemies neo-liberal ‘philosophy’ and local democracy are. Take away the people’s say on how services are delivered and you are one step away from “capitalism with Asian values” i.e. totalitarian oligarchy. How close are we to that in Britain today?

  213. ronnie anderson says:

    Lochside, we all make our own decision,s re the Non Payment of BBC licence fee, Im on my 4th letter. You want a mass campain, There is a bloody mass campain, it starts with Yourself, then gather,s momentum. See You Tube Non Licence fee Payers, funny that you,ve never heard of that Mass Indevidual Campain, we re you waiting on BBC news to inform you. Ffs now as we do on here we share INFORMATION. Spread the message.

  214. ronnie anderson says:

    Lochside, when your on YouTube, klik on the Noel Edmond,s interview on BBC news.He,s a NON Licence fee payer, was he sacked wiz he Fek.

  215. CameronB says:

    @ ronnie anderson
    Despite not having a TV for nearly a decade, I still receive regular threatening letters about non-payment for a license I do not need. I now have enough material to start my next pet project. A scale model of the Titanic. Expected completion date 18/09/14. :)

  216. ronnie anderson says:

    CameronB, a hope you have a few extra tae make a captian,s hat ha ha.

  217. Faltdubh says:

    And the most interesting thing from that whole double page spread and most important too.
     
    The voters.
    One a yes, one a no, and undecided that mentioned getting the govt we vote for. I’d say that was 2:1 to us.
     
    Long way to go.

  218. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @ronnie anderson -
     
    Hear hear.
     
    The only estimate I’ve seen says approximately 1,000,000 licence fees are illegally avoided each year. If true, that suggests somewhere in the order of 60-70,000 Scottish households refusing payment. 
     
    I’ve put that figure at higher-than the standard 10% because:
     
    1. Scots are more ‘Lefty/ anti-establishment’ than the RUK, and the BBC embodies values which many of us dislike.
     
    2. Proportionately, more people in Scotland are likely to have problems paying the license fee (even if they genuinely want to, and feel bad about it if they don’t), because we have more poverty in Scotland. 
     
    I’ve no idea what size the ‘average’ Scottish family is, but even if we say 3.5 people per household, that refusal rate covers a kick-in-the-arse off a quarter of a million people, in a nation of 5 million, who are, for whatever reason, not paying the BBC.
     
    So, my point, to Lochside, and others wary about criminalising themselves, is this – where are all the convictions of non-payers? How often do you see details of such prosecutions in your local papers?
     
    Who is your own local non-payer? Don’t you know? And why is it that you don’t know? Do you really believe that the BBC is missing £147,000,000 quid a year, and they won’t have the government do everything in its power to gather that dosh? Do you believe that everyone in your neighbourhood is paying it?
     
    Truth is – there is a ‘movement’, and it’s been growing for years. The only reason most have never heard of it is because The Establishment will never admit to there being a problem, and those constituting the non-payment movement daren’t (for the most part) incur the wrath of family and neighbours, or won’t admit, through simple shame, that they can’t afford it.
     
    It comes down to all that ‘be the change you want to see in the world‘ stuff – you don’t need to join a movement, you just set your own reasonable target , then do it yourself.
     
    FWIW, my advice would be to just stop paying the fucking thing, then forget it, knowing that you can get the information which really matters from healthier sources. And that’s it done then – when they turn up the door, sign nothing, and don’t let them in. They have no right to compel you to do either. 

  219. bald eagle says:

    lochside
    put it this way when you pay your licence you could be paying a paedo bring the bbc down thats what i think.
     
    put my foot through the tv 3 months ago and its sitting in the hall waiting for the paedo pimps to come to my door i`ve got a surprise for them im going to video it and put it up here as soon as somebody tells me how to do it 
     
    dont pay them anything it feels great waiting for the b!ӣ$%^ds

  220. CameronB says:

    @ ronnie anderson
    Your luck is in, as I expect one more letter before completion, possibly a visit. I haven’t had one of those for a while. They have had my address under investigation for a couple of years now. Surely they must have gathered enough evidence by now?
     
    Talking of evidence, I asked the last bod that turned up at my door, if their detection vans couldn’t collect evidence that could stand examination in court. I know these vans are a myth of the past, but it was fun to ask. The poor guy was not sufficiently trained to answer, and couldn’t offer how the BBC could prove I was breaking the law. So I’m still wondering.  :)
     
    Talking of the BBC license (tax), wasn’t the American War of Independence not supposed to be about rejecting British tyranny, or taxation without representation?

  221. bald eagle says:

    lochside
    as ronnie anderson says go on youtube  download everything you need then read out all the information and then see how you feel about paying the licence  
     
    go through all the info and you will be surprised  then preach the crap to them when they come to my door i will throw all the stuff at them i hope its an idiot that comes to my door i will ram it down his throat

  222. James123 says:

    Alistair Darling was on the BBC today talking about the opportunities the UK gives Scotland.
     
    Such as the opportunity to be ruled over by a Tory Westminster government we did not vote for.
     
    Or the opportunity to have policies imposed on us that don’t reflect the views of the Scottish people.
     
    And the opportunity to have nuclear missiles positioned right next to our most populous city.

  223. Albamac says:

    @Ian Brotherhood
     
    FWIW, my advice would be to just stop paying the fucking thing
     
    That’s all there is to it! I haven’t paid since 2003. I’ve had lots of threatening letters but they didn’t get round to visiting me until a few weeks ago. The young man who came to my door didn’t look or sound like his heart was in it. When I told him that I didn’t have TV, he asked if he could come in and check. I refused and he left without protest.
    They have no power over you other than that which you surrender to them.

  224. Albamac says:

    @James123
    And the opportunity to have nuclear missiles positioned right next to our most populous city
    They’re much closer tae oor kitchen! :)  Maybe I should set up an early warning system. Blink – Boom!  Plan cancelled.

  225. Albamac says:

    @me
    Ye pit a smiley there?  Ye daft?

  226. ronnie anderson says:

    Ther,s ye go Lochside, you wanted tae join a campain, thats only about 9 people, since your post, there,s loads mair,awe er the country, as many have said, dont give any information, dont let them in, I did let them in, but there again I want them to take me to court. I can cite BBC Scotland , in my defence ( paying a Public broadcaster to ( misinform me & tell lies ) am I going to get convicted, NAW.

  227. john king says:

    “please john king dont answer this just keep taking the medication”
     
    Eh?

  228. Paul says:

    I stopped paying the tv tax 2 years ago they keep sending me letters but I send them back to Pacific Quay unstamped that way they have to pay the postage again.

  229. bald eagle says:

    john king
    @6.20am have a word with yourself at 9.02pm

  230. G H Graham says:

    The only way someone can legally enter your house to check for a TV receiver is to serve you with a court order issued by a Sheriff. In order for that to be executed, the Sheriff would need sufficient grounds to issue one; i.e. evidence that you not only have a TV but use it to watch live broadcasts. But you do not need a license to own a TV receiver, only one to watch live broadcasts.
     
    So when some bloke/lass who is working on a commission basis, arrives at your front door on behalf of the BBC via his subcontracted employer, you politely refuse him/her entry. You must also refuse to give your name or divulge who is the owner/tenant & never admit to having a TV. You are not obliged to give them anything since they have no authority to demand it or gain access to your house.
     
    Unless they can demonstrate to a Sheriff that you have been watching live TV broadcasts without a license, you cannot be served with a search warrant.
     
    In summary, never divulge anything, never give access & always be polite. If you don’t watch the shite the BBC or indeed anyone else broadcasts on TV anyway, you’ve nothing to worry about.

  231. john king says:

    “@6.20am have a word with yourself at 9.02pm”
     
    Still eh?

    you do know that was in response to the rev taking all the spaces out of a previous post of mine @7.25PM for a laugh?

    ever thought about taking up a sport? you would get a commonwealth gold in Glasgow for leaping to conclusions.

  232. bald eagle says:

    john king 
    sorry mate really tired when i saw your post and this morning the computer was still on where i left it 
     
    really need to start reading way back before commenting again sorry i didnt put 2+2 together about the rules no hard feeling i hope

  233. john king says:

    No probs mate

    I do have to admit, in isolation it did look like I was arguing with myself ha ha ha .

  234. Bill says:

    On the divisive thing, I think both sides are clearly guilty of creating divisions. Simply stating you’re thinking of voting No in the wrong company is usually enough to be swamped by a series of self-righteous tirades about why you’re anything from a “sh*tebag” to a Tory.



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