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Wings Over Scotland


If you thought Willie Rennie was funny

Posted on March 11, 2017 by

…on Good Morning Scotland yesterday, then we suspect you’re going to love the Lib Dems’ heroically glaikit MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton on the same show today.

(Good Morning Scotland, BBC Radio Scotland, 11 March 2017)
.

Our favourite line is probably “the SNP didn’t win an election”, though it’s run quite close by “If you listen to Christine Jardine”.

The news that Lib Dem MPs at Westminster will “absolutely, red-line” vote to block a second indyref is probably going to come as a bit of a surprise to them, though.

cleggblock

The Lib Dems’ position on referendums – that there absolutely must be a second EU one because they lost that one, but absolutely mustn’t be a second Scottish one because they won it – ought to be a rich vein of comedy for interviewers and pundits alike in the coming days and months. It’s off to a cracking start.

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  1. 11 03 17 21:40

    If you thought Willie Rennie was funny... - NaijaVoxPop

181 to “If you thought Willie Rennie was funny”

  1. Proud Cybernat says:

    Authorise NewIndyRef and Mayhem has an outside chance of winning it. Refuse it and she has no chance.

    Your move, Mayhem.

  2. Itchybiscuit says:

    I’m sure I saw a poll the other day which put support for independence at or close to, 50%.

    That Lib-Dem MSP seems to be going down the same path as Wee Willie Rennie – if the facts don’t fit your narrative, make some up!

  3. The Rough Bounds. says:

    It is simply mind boggling to listen to that man. We used to call that a ‘dog in the manger’ attitude. I can hardly believe it.

  4. Irma says:

    A man standing firmly on a pile of jelly!

  5. Tam the Bam. says:

    Scot LibDums:

    It speaks volumes that despite the fact they could conduct their conference within the spacious confines of a shoebox…The LD’s left-hand disnae ken whit the right-hands’ writing….gloriously inept.

  6. Scott says:

    Lib Dem MSP Alex Cole-Hamilton faces expenses probe

    What has happened to this police investigation.

    Have just listened to him I thought these Libs were supposed to be smart I wonder what Jo Grimond and Charlie would think of this lot.

  7. Dair says:

    The poll which showed 50% backing for Independence also showed that the Liberals were polling a mightly 6%. Six percent…

  8. Brian Powell says:

    Classic gobbledegook from ACH. I guess he refused to look at the 50% support for Independence poll. “No you can’t make me see it, look I’ve turned my head the other way, so it’s not there’.

  9. David Caledonia says:

    Mr Hamilton, just go away, your just insulting my intelligence

  10. Mike says:

    It gets even better when you consider Tavish Scott wants the Shetlands to UDI from Scotland without a referendum in Scotland on the issue.
    As far as Democracy is concerned the Libdums have completely lost the plot.

  11. Donald MacKenzie says:

    Oh dearie me!

    The contempt for the people of Scotland shines through.

  12. I am convinced that soon this guy will say that he didn’t say what we just heard him say, he is a typical Liberal, a lying opportunist.

  13. Marker Post says:

    How long can the unionists continue saying, “There is no appetite in Scotland for a second referendum?”

    Every time those words escape their lips, I reckon there must be a few more on the Journey from No to Yes.

  14. Jack Murphy says:

    Last year the BBC Head Office placed a Results Map of the In/Out of Europe Referendum on -line.
    Startling.
    http://archive.is/RMZbh

  15. Brian Powell says:

    Mike

    Yes, for Unionists they seem really desperate to break up Scotland, the Northern Isles, the Borders, even Aberdeenshire!

    Though interestingly, Magnus, Earl of Orkney and Caithness, signed the Declaration of Arbroath with Robert the Bruce, and Shetland, from around 1230, was ‘owned’ by the Scots Angus and St Clair families. So quite a strong commitment to Scotland.

  16. ballevullin says:

    He just maladroitly avoided Brewer’s question about the difference between opposing independence and opposing a referendum.

    Also a distinction of course that Kezia fails to get.

  17. scottieDog says:

    Geez to think I used to vote for them!

  18. Jack Murphy says:

    Here is the Results Map.
    Direct link to the BBC on-line:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

  19. Arbroath1320 says:

    I can NOT believe I just heard this moron say this. “If we had voted YES I would have liked to have seen another referendum on the terms of independence.”

    W.T.F.?

    Maybe it’s just me but I always understood independence means complete and utter division away from Westminster. There would be NO middle ground. We vote YES and we go it alone … end of. What on earth does this complete twat think the options on his other referendum would ask …”do you still want to be independent … YES/NO?”

    So the bottom line in Lib Dem politics is that 2nd referendums are perfectly acceptable in all decision making … EXCEPT when that decision making process involves the 2014 referendum on Scottish independence.

    What an absolute waste of space!

  20. Brian Powell says:

    ACH also lying about SNP majority, even without the Greens SNP has more MSPs than ConLadLibs combined.

  21. Ian McCubbin says:

    Well lets have Patrick Harvey’s view now. It might make more sense.
    Kind trying to get some media attention that’s all.
    Let’s not give them any on SM.

  22. Arbroath1320 says:

    I also note with some … erm … surprise that the SNP did NOT win last year’s Holyrood elections. Hmm … If that is indeed the case perhaps Mr. Dunderheid would be kind enough to explain to me WHO exactly DID win last year’s elections.

    Perhaps Mr. Braindeid should complain to the Presiding Officer about the fact that the SNP are stealing the job of government from the party that DID win last year’s elections.

    I leave this question open for other, more knowledgable individuals to provide answers or at the very least clues as to the identity of the party that won last year. 😀

  23. Mike says:

    @Brian Powell

    Tavish Scott misses the entire point of being a Parliamentary Democracy. He thinks he can campaign for a separate Shetland without going through the Scottish Parliament at all. Thinks he wont need a Parliamentary majority just to invoke a referendum on the issue.
    Thinks that referendum wont be held Scotland wide.

    Tavish Scott and reality departed ways long ago.

  24. Arthur Martin says:

    What a car crash that was. The desperation is oozing out of him and it is glorious to listen to. Brewer is sometimes a bit of a hit and a miss when carrying out interviews, but in this case he kept this little toe rag firmly on the hook.
    I for one cant wait until the YES vote is won and losers like him have to suddenly justify their very existence.

    They will have no place in an Independent Scotland which is going to motor off to a bright future leaving bitter Unionists trailing in its wake.

  25. Edward Freeman says:

    It has come to our notice, here at Schloß Freeman-am-Tay, that certain politicians are having an even more problematic relationship with reality, facts and truth than usual. That being the case, perhaps Mr. Cole-Hamilton’s minders should check his face for tell-tale signs of orange.

  26. Big Jock says:

    47% of the vote nearest rival 22%. I think the Snp might have won but I am just blinkered. Not only is he behaving like an arrogant sore loser. He is a fucking loony. Another one said if Scotland gets indi and becomes a nation state! Er the UK is a nation state. Scotland would be a unitary nation. These people are painfully stupid.

  27. Turnip_ghost says:

    I’m sat on the bus, mouth open at how incredulous that entire interview was.

  28. K1 says:

    Ye just find yersel’ listening to his arrogant tone and contemptuous attitude writing off the nearly half of Scotland’s population who did vote for SNP and realise that he is neither a liberal nor a democrat.

    Do we really have to place a libdem as our last preference on our ballot paper in May…cause I really do have deep misgivings about these yellow tories and their stance on indyref2?

  29. Enid Anderson says:

    What this twerp seem to forget is that the SNP has vastly more MPs in Westminster than the LibDems. Why is he being interviewed? Especially as he is going against the mainstream of his very small party? He sounds vastly self-important and silly. That’s why – for a laugh!

  30. Proud Cybernat says:

    When the starting gun on NewIndyRef is finally fired by Nicola, we must immediately put the Yoons on the back foot by seeking their clear and unequivocal answer to this part of Mayhem’s 2017 Tory Confrence speech:

    “As prime minister of the United Kingdom, I am just as concerned that young people in Dundee get a good start in life and receive the education they need to reach their full potential as I am about young people in Doncaster and Dartford.

    We need to build a new ‘collective responsibility’ across the United Kingdom, which unites all layers of government.

    In policy areas where responsibilities are devolved, we will look for ways to collaborate and work together with the devolved administrations to improve the outcomes for everyone.”

    .

    1) What does this part of May’s speech mean? (We have OUR ideas of what it means – reading between the lines – but we simply must get THEM TO EXPLAIN what Mayhem means here).

    2) Why specifically mention a devolved power?

    3) What does she mean by ‘collective responsibility’ across the United Kingdom, which unites all layers of government?

    4) Why would Theresa May even mention a devolved responsibility – education – if the Tories weren’t considering some means by which they could interfere in that delivery?

    And, of course, Scotland has very recent experience of what the Blue Tories mean when they use terms like “collaborate and work together” – i.e. they make promises, we swallow their promises, they deliver precisely hee-haw and tell us how things are going to be.

    Let’s get the Yoons on the back foot by demanding answers to the above questions. If they refuse to answer then they allow voters to draw their own conclusions. And they will.

  31. McDuff says:

    Just been looking at the Yahoo site and its piece on a second indy ref and once again the posts are filled with hate and bile against Scots and Scotland.
    It was the same filth that was thrown at Andy Murray when he won his Wimbledon titles. And they say that its the Scots that are anti English.

  32. Golfnut says:

    Posted this on the last thread, just in case anybody missed it.
    http://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/north-sea-oil-tax
    -avoidance-schemes-exposed

  33. Ken Clark says:

    My partner and I have been enjoying the re-runs of ‘Yes Minister’, but who can fail to enjoy their fiction being outdone by real life.

    I’m beginning to sense that interviewers are losing patience with these morons, just as we have.

    Better late than never, but I hope they don’t revert to type during IndyRef2.

  34. The Isolator says:

    Seriously WTF just occurred in that interview.He is completely unhinged,I’m surprised Brewer’s heid never exploded.Who voted for this man a man who has just taken arseholery to a whole new level?

  35. Macart says:

    Dishonest with the public, between themselves and cross party peers. Dear God! What happened to the Libdems? Upon a time I’ve voted for Libdem candidates FFS!

    Reduced to a disingenuous, ridiculed and irrelevant laughing stock. A political joke gone bad. Seven years to reduce decades of reputation to a pile of ash. That’s a helluva fall from grace.

    They’re not simply a shambles, they’re a disgrace.

  36. Arbroath1320 says:

    That link didn’t work for me golfnut but this one did. 😉

    http://www.maritime-executive.com/editorials/north-sea-oil-tax-avoidance-schemes-exposed

  37. Davy says:

    This is the classic case of an earse-hole being taught to talk.

    Still shite coming oot of it.

  38. Golfnut says:

    @Arbroath1320,

    Thanks, totally useless at this stuff, picked it up on face book, bit o/t but a hot topic a couple of threads back.

  39. Meg merrilees says:

    It’s simple really!

    A.C.Hamilton obviously reads the tory press.

    We all know that, actually, the Ruth Harrison party won the election – it was all over the papers and Alex has to be right when he says that because he sits through FMQ’s each time and he knows that it’s really (t)Ruthless’ party that makes all the decisions there.

    What a plonker of the first order.

    He obviously has forgotten that the Lib-Dems is a WM based party with a regional branch office called the Scottish Lib-Dems. The WM High-heid Yins make the decision on what goes into the NATIONAL manifesto which controls how they vote in the UK Parliament.

    Nick Clegg, ex Deputy Prime minister of the UK, told the Pretendy Scottish Lib-Dems that the WM MP’s would encourage the unelected PM of the UK to allow Scotland to have another Indyref.

    The Scottish Lib-Dems should now be told that this is party line.

    They must NOT stand in the way of the the elected FM of Scotland, (leader of the SNP – the biggest party in Scotland, WINNERS of the most recent election in Scotland and the third biggest party in the UK), if she decides that another Indy ref is the best path for Scotland.

    The Scottish Lib-Dems will find out, to their loss at the Council elections, what is the true feeling of the Scottish people.

    “Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”

  40. Valerie says:

    Jeez, not so much a car crash, as a multiple pile up.

    They didn’t win an election.

    That’s set the bar high for all out moronic statements now.

  41. Meg merrilees says:

    Mike 12.24

    Tavish Scott just wants to be Lord of Shetland and the Northern Isles.
    He’s a big fish in a ever-dwindling sea.

    He’s looking for an alternative occupation as the political landscape will have to change in an iScotland :
    no Tory- already calling it the Ruth Harrison party, if that fails, head south.
    no Lib-Dem – we’ll support the Union forever. It won’t fail us.
    no SLAB – Kezia will head south.Her QT appearance will secure her future.

    These ‘opposition’ MSP’s are desperate to hang on to their jobs at Holyrood and will do everything they can to keep us in the Union – keep the ‘talking shop'(as they think of Holyrood), and their jobs going.

  42. Bob Mack says:

    They are really losing it now are they not?

    “You don’t want it” “We will stop you” ” Europe will stop you” “You are too poor”
    “You have a deficit”

    It all sounds rather desperate and symptomatic of an opponent being on the defensive and taking a battering. I sense they are fighting for their very existence.

  43. Clootie says:

    Holding two completely opposed views on referendi at the same time is hardly “Liberal”. In my view it demonstrates a clear fixation with the (UK)Union above all else.

    The slur in comparing Civic Nationalism with Right Wingers like Farage and Trump is a clear indicator of their task – “messengers/champions of the Union”…your rewards await under Empire2

  44. What a pointless foppish little nobody.
    No that’s it. No further comment required. It’s his turn to be leader soon.

  45. Robert Graham says:

    I wonder if the BBC cut off the end of the interview , you know the bit where the doctor comes in and says ok Nurse hes had his chance put the cuffs back on.
    I cant place the accent it dosnt sound like a local speaking is this the way his constituents speak ? . and as for the double barreled name f/fks . Oh well it takes all sorts i suppose , more to be pitied than laughed at probably .

  46. Dr Jim says:

    All referendums are OK as long as they’re not SNP ones

    Now give it up folks for the comedy stylings of

    The Liberal Democrats!!! Yaaay! Cheers!! Applause!!!

  47. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for O/T here.

    As suspected it is all kicking off in Alloa.

    https://twitter.com/kayadam1_/status/840555104256311297

    It appears the locals are playing a game of spot the SDL/EDL/BNP/Britain First supporter/marcher. All that can be seen so far are those protesting against the marchers and loads of polis … to “protect” the poor wee souls who eventually do turn up to go for their wee saunter into Alloa town centre. 😀

  48. Brian Powell says:

    Serious question to all the thoughtful folk here: has anyone got an inkling of what Unionists believe will happen if we vote No, of how the political situation will play out?

    All the energy, thought and commitment of the Yes Movement and SNP in particular does not belong to any Unionist party. We saw what the Unionist parties offered or rather didn’t offer and didn’t want them.

    Lab and the LibDems are nowhere in Westminster. In Scotland LibDems on 6%, Labour on 15%, Tories on 24%. Why would SNP on 47% join with any of them?

    We cannot change what England does so where would a No vote take us?

  49. Hamish100 says:

    I didn’t realise Alloa was such a hotbed of the right wing brexiters.

  50. CapnAndy. says:

    Once again. Head in hands, shaking of head. These eejits are seriously deluded.

  51. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Ehh??? More than 50% of the people voted for ANTI independence parties? That is weird, because the SNP AS A MINORITY already outnumber the unionist parties, at Holyrood, and the SGP have announced they are pro indy.

    If you want to look at Westminster, bearing in mind that the SNP got FIFTY PER CENT of the vote, and the remainder was shared between half a dozen other parties, that means that already Bawheid’s figures are oot the windae. Add the SGP, and you get another 1.3%.

    Firing up my steam abacus, I reckon that 51.3 is MORE than 50%, and certainly more than 48.7%

    All this wisdom, and people wonder why the Lidbins were cavorting after the last election as if they had WON it, in spite of LOSING ten seats.

    It gets worse

  52. boris says:

    https://caltonjock.com/2016/04/08/is-tavish-scott-a-numpty-gentleman-farmer-wants-to-be-a-lord-like-his-daddy/

    Tavish raised his head and pontificated about Shetland pursuing Independence from Scotland. This article provides the views of his constituents and he is out of line.

  53. Graeme says:

    For me he said it all in his first sentence when he said “I will oppose a second referendum no matter what”

    NO MATTER WHAT means Union or nothing it doesn’t matter to him or his kind what is best for Scotland and her people it’s all about preserving this decrepit, corrupt decaying corpse they call the United Kingdom

  54. Bob Mack says:

    @Brian Powell,

    Very good question Brian. When Hollywood was set up the voting system was rigged to never enable a majority, thus preventing what we have seen recently. It was always envisaged that the Unionist Party’s would have sufficient numbers to rule out the possibility of a drive towards self determination for Scotland,

    That clearly has not worked.

    Now the penny has dropped they have to find a new way of removing that threat. I believe that way would be to repatriate many devolved powers back to Westminster.
    They have to strangle the appearance that we can cope on our own and therefore any credit to the SNP government.

    This will be part of the Great Repeal Bill which will sail through Westminster. It will rob us of the ability to show and demonstrate to the world that we can manage our
    own affairs.
    Scotland to all intents and purposes will be reabsorbed into the British State with no distinct sense of identity.

    That is why YES is now so important. We may never again be in a position to have that choice.

  55. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T

    COMING SOON – TOP 20 INDYREF B4FTA AWARDS (2017)

    Proud Cybernat has been Moonlighting a wee bit La-La-lately and is now happy to report that the 2017 IndyRef B4FTAs (Before ‘n’ After Awards) have now been compiled and I can tell you that there is a brand new #1 this year. A few surprise entries also this year so make sure you don’t miss the BIG RELEASE date next week (to coincide with FM’s keynote speech).

  56. woosie says:

    No wonder wee timmy went to the weans’ birthday party instead of the fib dem conference. More political sense talked, and a bigger crowd!

    Must be great living in libdem lalaland; SNP didn’t win the election, no-one in Scotland wants a referendum, etc.

    Can’t you hear the birdies singing, and wee puffy clouds floating by?

  57. Giving Goose says:

    The Lib Dems are just a bunch of wanna be Tory BritNats pretending to be a seperate political party.

    It is absolutely pointless in these charlatans putting themselves forward as some sort of alternative.

    Politics in Scotland has moved on. There are now only 2 political positions; pro-Scottish Independence or anti-Scottish unionism.

    The days of a 4,5 or 6 party system are gone.

    These people labeling themselves as LibDems are not Liberals, nor are they Democrats. They are Tory unionists!

  58. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Bob Mack @ 14:13,

    Yes, this next one is going to be existential for Scotland.

    Never mind Labour’s absurd latterday conversion to “federalism”. (So last-century.) Devolution has reached its high-water mark. If we don’t get indy soon, the Tory party will insidiously undermine even what little we already have, in the name of Great Brexitania.

    Which is why I think we should call it theindyref.

    It really will be “make or break”. Not, incidentally, because we would get so disheartened as not to want to try ever again, but because UKGov will work its damnedest to lock us into the Union in some constitutionally-inescapable way. (The Spanish “solution”.)

  59. David Mills says:

    And with those word he has seal the liberals fate in Scotland, now he will have to nip away to local funeral directors to exploring the box options for next year’s conference!

  60. Ken MacColl says:

    Much well deserved comment about the LibDem MSP for Edinburgh West and his epic car crash interview this morning on GM Scotland around the Scottish LD conference.
    It has to be recognised though that the LibDems have some problems in presentation now as they have only one elected MP from Scotland -the discredited Alastair Carmichael who shamelessly lied about the First Minister’s attitude to SNP membership of the EU, and then lied about his lying before being found out. We see that Alastair was this week comparing Alex Salmond to The Donald but surely the US President has much more in common with the MP for Orkney & Shetland in his creative approach to reality?
    As the Rev suggests quite the most ludicrous aspect of Cole- Hamilton’s remarks though was when he cited his colleague Christine Jardine as an authority on the Scottish political scene. This frequent standard bearer of the SLD cause has surely lost more elections for more bodies in more constituencies than anyone else in Scotland yet regularly pontificates as a guest on political chat shows. Didn’t she used to work for BBC Scotland?

  61. Child of Alba says:

    Scots shouldn’t be allowed a 2nd referendum until Brexit negotionations so they ‘know the details of what they are voting for.’ Yes, because Leavers had all the information to hand to make an informed vote.

  62. Iain says:

    o/t Saw 3 bitter torys trying to campaign against indy ref 2, methinks that they are scared of losing it.
    Shame they are such an extremist minority party.
    The poor fools probably thought that Netherlee on the south side of Glasgow would be fertile ground.
    Sadly for them Scotland has moved on.
    They are yesterday’s men.

  63. Scottish lass says:

    If every able person in Scotland could take 2 disabled people who would use the postal vote or just do a taxi run on the day it would eliminate the need and it would not give wm the chance to cheat us again fight fir with fire.

  64. Dr Jim says:

    It’s the hard neck of these politicians who lie on the telly and radio from a place af safety or like “journalists” make up crap in newspapers

    Try that in a pub and they’d get a mouthful of shoe

    It seems they only like to call us stupid from a distance

    Remember that in school from the other side of the playground and then they’d run away, these are those people, the same ones then, the same ones now

    Mingin cowardly wee squints that don’t want answered back or they’ll tell their Da

  65. Arbroath1320 says:

    Sorry for O/T folks but beware of what you wish for. 😉

    https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382817-corbyn-second-independence-referendum-should-be-held/

  66. Meg merrilees says:

    What will kezia do now then?
    And Wee Wullie, cos Nick Clegg says there should be a second indy ref as well…

    O/T
    https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/us-nukes-just-got-lot-212818509.html

    OH dear, oh dear, oh dear.

    USA has made the next Trident missiles more deadly!

    They have to go from an iScotland. No ifs, buts or whatevers.

  67. Meg merrilees says:

    Brian powell

    If we voted No – hell would have to freeze over first but anyway…

    I think it would be much like the scenario in N.Ireland.

    presumably the FM would have to step down; there would be another Scottish Election or by default the leader of the 2nd biggest party – Ruth Harrison would be automatically appointed caretaker FM in a sort of Direct rule cover up.

    The UK would conclude Brexit with or without a deal.
    The Great Repeal bill would decide that Holyrood was unnecessary because we all SO want to be part of the UK; it might become part of a federal solution but I imagine we would all be made to work on the land in England to provide the food, service jobs and catering jobs that are currently done by EU immigrants.

    We would be the underclass in a new, all powerful, all corrupt Engerland and we would be forced to have smart TV’s that allowed eavesdropping to prevent an insurrection.

    Maybe I should write a book with this as the plot. Hmmm.

    Too horrible to contemplate.

    For all our futures, we HAVE to vote YES this time round. The stakes are TOO HIGH.

  68. schrodingers cat says:

    sees to be confusion about indyref2 bill in holyrood and section 30 in westminster, not having a setion 30 wont stop indyref2, the euref didnt have one, it didnt stop the euref happening

    how can you legally block a non legally binding referendum?

  69. Dorothy Devine says:

    God almighty!

    I am listening to the Wittering Wullie and cannot believe the willingness he expresses to be stood on, supressed and asset stripped.

    Is he blind to the needs of Scotland ?
    Is he happy to be a willing party to illegal wars?
    Does he want to keep WMDs in Scottish waters and have warheads trailed through the streets of the West of Scotland?

    When our grandchildren look back Mr Rennie they will ask, ‘what the hell were you for?’

    Don’t mention yourself in the same breath as Charles Kennedy.

  70. Brian Powell says:

    Bob Mack

    Yes, May has made it clear removing powers is one of her priorities, Davidson has put out her stall as prime Unionist and Dugdale says UK is all. The constituents of Davidson and Dugdale matter not at all to them nor those who support Independence.

    What Davidson hasn’t grasped is that the Unionist vote took quite a beating in NI and the Unionist majority is gone. This should be a warning bell for her position.

    Now it comes back to other politicians and voters in Scotland, will they stand by while the devolved powers are removed or diluted? What do they see as happening.

    Nicola Sturgeon’s message is a powerful one: a Tory UK ruling all, or an Independent Scotland making its own decisions.

  71. alexicon says:

    Just heard 2 young delegates speaking at the LibDem’s conference saying that they will vote for Independence.

    Not going well for the LibDems.

  72. Cactus says:

    Yeah, Lib Dems speaking like that should encourage more of their followers to vote Yes!

    Article 50 trigger day digital countdown clock
    Time remaining:

    3 days, 8 hours, 0 minutes, 0 seconds.

    Or

    Around the clock in 80 hours.

    Wherz the party at?

    It’s Saturday, it’s Scotland, it’s 4pm, it’s time fur kick-aff.
    Mon oor 1st XV!

  73. Dr Jim says:

    The UK state of flux:

    I have a strong feeling once article 50 is triggered and once negotiations begin Mrs May’s going to get a wee surprise from the EU if she attempts to use even the word Scotland in any deals of any shape or form
    I think the press normally refer to it as slapped down is what she’s going to get given that the whole of the EU is now fully aware of the constitutional issues surrounding the UK and that any offers of any sort that include Scotland will be soundly rejected on the basis of our upcoming vote on Independence which would immediately negate any deal Theresa May might think she wants to get using Scottish assets, not to mention Norn Ireland

    In other words she can’t offer what she might not and probably wont control

    Oh how they (UK) wish Nicola Sturgeon was not a clever girl! (with a big spanner)

  74. bugsbunny says:

    Apparently the Liberal Democrats occupy the middle ground, (is that their code for moral majority?) of Scottish Politics by saying that the best way to preserve membership of the E.U is within the UK. The commentator said, “Really. We’re about to trigger article 50”. They must be visitors from a parallel Universe and reality. They are certainly wired to the moon. They make treekies look normal. What a bunch of twats.

  75. robin says:

    hmmm getting interesting
    corbyn for indyref2
    wonder if he told kezia

  76. The Lib Dum Conference looked like revival meeting. All that is missing is hand clapping and Tambourines. Hallelujah Wee Wullie.

  77. Kevin meina says:

    First canvassing of the council election season today in West Kilbride I was hit with the immortal line “I will vote snp when hell freezes over”
    Why are unionists so angry I could almost taste the venom as I smiled and thanked him for his time like all good nationalists.

  78. Proud Cybernat says:

    “Why are unionists so angry”

    They wouldn’t even be able to tell you if you asked them because they don’t even know the answer themselves. The answer being that for (at least) the past ten years, the colonial media in Scotland has poisoned their minds with drip, drip, drip anti-SNP, anti-Scotland lies.

    “I hate that Alicsammin!”

    “Why?”

    “Eh – a jist dae, right!”

    Sums it up. They have been ‘taught’ to hate by the colonial media.

  79. ian says:

    Never has so much “pish” been talked by so few to so many.

  80. Dr Jim says:

    Don’t be too downhearted if Scotland gets humped at the rugby remember it’s every Scottish rugby players dream and ambition to play for his country “The British Lions”

    But it’s nice to be described as “plucky losers” or “found wanting” or my particular favourite “just not good enough on the day” but there will be one England player who will shine and that usually drags up the all time biggest quote of all time “cometh the hour cometh the man” they use that one in football every week

    Sigh, how I dream of not being Scottish

    Aye that’ll be right!

  81. Proud Cybernat says:

    Nae sweat – Scotland beat ‘England’ on the Rugby field where it matters!

    From earlier today: Holyrood XV 15 – Westminster XV 0.

  82. twathater says:

    Scott @11.52am

    As you said what has happened re the expenses probe into ach the same as the tolie expenses probe , police forces up and down the country must be totally incompetent at the length of time these investigations have gone on ,yet we have these slithering creatures pouring forth their BILE incessantly. If I were one of their constituents I would be extremely reluctant to listen to their pish.

    We NEED a proper recall law not the one that these self serving TWATS forced on us

  83. frogesque says:

    Oh deary dear!

    I don’t really mind what we call the next IndyRef, we simply have to win it.

    Are clowns like Alex C-H really, really taken seriously?

    Fair play to the young LibDems who stated they will vote YES. Get the old guard telt, you are not our future, we are!

  84. Robert Graham says:

    Kevin – Re angry Unionists, your story reminds me of a interview just before the 2014 Ref , A woman in Govan , She was asked how she was going to vote, her reply was Oh I don’t have enough information then stormed off, My first thought was with all due respect Mrs you wouldn’t know what to do with more information, sadly we are surrounded by f/n idiots who don’t know why they hate the SNP , they seem to be totally unaware that it’s the SNP who daily are trying to shield them from a rabid Tory government hell bent on making their lives worse than it was yesterday and the day before back to the time before the NHS , if it wasn’t for the fact that we can’t separate these arses from the rest of us I would gladly pass on every f/n Tory cut let’s see how they enjoy that.

  85. One_Scot says:

    Lol. You have to wonder how the Twatter yoon mentally works. They’re out in droves slating Scotland and Independence over a rugby match. Like that’ll help their cause. #Muppets

  86. galamcennalath says:

    Giving Goose says:

    The Lib Dems are just a bunch of wanna be Tory BritNats pretending to be a seperate political party.

    Exactly! Can anyone point out any differences between the three Scottish branches of the London parties?

    Not so long ago we would have heard policy discussions, proposals put to the membership, etc etc.. Conferences were all about promoting each party’s distinctive agenda.

    Now …. we’ve had three near identical versions of SNPBaaad, Indy not needed, Sturgeon should stick to day job, and England rule is best rule.

    Absolutely nothing to set these Unionist cheerleaders apart. A case of united we fall for Yoonery.

  87. Roger Hyam says:

    This is a thing of great beauty:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39244890

    Makes me chuckle.

  88. Thepnr says:

    I lost the rag at Patrick Harvie and his Green Party the other day for supporting a labour motion that the Scottish government was failing in Education.

    When the complete opposite is true as far as examination results go for our brightest pupils when results show that those leaving with at least 1 higher has increased 50% since 2007 after flat lining for years.

    He pissed me off but surely anything is better in Local Government than a Lab/Lib/Tory politician.

    I haven’t forgiven Harvie for his ignorance by any means but I’ll do just about anything to keep one of these Unionist parties from running our councils. I don’t care now if Independents are closet Tories, providing they couldn’t on their own form a council with any Unionist party then some may get my support.

    If you not up to looking up the history of the candidates in your own ward then I would worry, only support those that are for Independence and ignore the rest.

    Idiots like this Lib Dem wind me up worse even than Harvie does!

  89. Breeks says:

    Payback’s a bitch, eh Kez?

    Your boss has just stitched you up like a kipper…. yet again.

    The only “friends” who share your objection to Indyref2 are the Tories, and Ruth Harrison changes her opinion on that issue like a weather barometer.

    Better Together to be led by a pair of flip-flops? Ruthie does the flips while Kez lines up the flops eh?

    Wee tip Kez. Get yourself a wee dictionary and look up the word “untenable”, because it now applies to your position.

    But humour me a moment Kez. Clear your mind of all thoughts and prejudices, and think back to what John Swinney said last week; GET YOURSELF ON SCOTLAND’S SIDE. Your time to do it is running out.

  90. Willie Rennie’s ralying call:-
    “Mr Rennie says new case for UK is “positive, uplifting” one which “focuses on ties that bind us”, not differences some would use to divide us.”
    Surely a Ypographical Terror?
    Should read:-
    “Mr Rennie says new case for Scotland is negative, and downbeating, one which focuses on lies that blind us, not similarities some would use to unite us.”
    What a pathetic wee party this lot have become. And why oh why is the BBC giving the Big Party Treatment?

  91. yesindyref2 says:

    Discipline – Scotland’s problem. A yellow card and 10 points in minutes, a reversed decision for 7 points, kick out of touch, offside 7 points, and others as well. Discipline, not ability. Didn’t help that England were superb!

  92. Vestas says:

    The way things are going it really will be :

    “Voting No?, You are a tory. End of story”

    The amusing thing is that IMHO the rise of Corbyn has come because of the collapse of SLAB & I’m pretty certain no English/Westminster hack/MP has worked that out properly – or even gets close.

    What makes it amusing is that we can see (even in 2012) that many SLAB voters had no problem with transferring their vote to tory in round 2. Now? Loads more for sure.

    I suspect residual SLAB support has a slight orange tinge…

  93. heedtracker says:

    Two BetterTogether schlubs in UKOK action, anything they wont use to run down Scotland?

    Blair McDougall?Verified account @blairmcdougall 2h2 hours ago
    More
    Blair McDougall Retweeted Andrew Neil
    Andrew Neil attempting to break Twitter there.Blair McDougall added,
    Andrew NeilVerified account @afneil
    Not happy. England’s lead now bigger that Scotland’s fiscal deficit. Depressing.

  94. galamcennalath says:

    ” Corbyn says indyref2 ‘absolutely fine'”

    Begs a number of questions.

    Has he spoken to Kezia since the EURef? Has he any idea what she’s been saying since?

    Does he even know he has a branch in Scotland ‘led’ by Kezia? Or, is it a case of “Kezia who?”

    That old paraphrased saying … “Scotland is a far away country of which they know little, and care even less” … applies widely!

  95. Robert Graham says:

    Scotland getting humped by England so what’s new after 300 years you would think we would be used to it by now, Well if you’re not prepared to do anything about it it will continue.

  96. geeo says:

    My explanation of a ‘Scottish Deficit’ to a labour supporter on dugdale’s Facebook page, espousing her ‘terrific performance’ on QT…
    ……………
    Are we talking about ‘car crash Kez’ here ?

    She was a mess on QT.

    Lying through her teeth, still using the tired old line about the non-existent £15billion deficit, as one example.

    Ever notice how that fantasy Deficit has never gone UP never gone DOWN since 2013….?

    It is a nonsense figure, used by completely discredited politicians like Dugdale to lie to the people of Scotland.

    The Scottish Government CANNOT BORROW money.

    Therefore, it CANNOT HAVE A DEFICIT, far less a £15 fucking billion one.
    ………..
    Here is how you invent a deficit.

    1. Kezia earns say, £1000/week.

    2. I take ALL her money.

    3. I give her back say, £500 to live on.

    4. I spend the other £500 on myself.

    5. I take a loan out in Kezia’s name, say, £52000.

    6. Lets say, the loan payments are £1000/week.

    7. Kezia is made liable for the loan repayments.

    8. Kezia now has a problem. She has only got £500/week income, but £1000 in loan repayments which i took out in her name.

    9. Kezia has a £500/week DEFICIT.

    10. HOWEVER, if Kezia takes control of all her own affairs, she ditches the £1000/week loan repayments, as she never took them out.

    She also gets back the £500/week i was taking to spend on myself.

    Kezia suddenly has ZERO DEBT and ZERO DEFICIT.

    11. Kezia gets the chance to KEEP TO my original fiscal planning on her behalf, or KEEP ALL HER MONEY by doing it herself.

    What do you think Kezia would choose to do ?

    In fact, lets ask her, since it is her page ?

    Well Kezia, ?
    ……
    (Awaiting response, but NOT holding breath..)

  97. Thepnr says:

    O/T I have no real idea of the intricacies of interpreting polling data unlike say Scot Goes Pop or Prof. Curtice.

    One thing that does trouble me though is this “lets ignore the undecided”. I think that’s just wrong to assume that the undecided would split 50/50 for Yes or No and that’s what I think both Sot Goes Pop, the Prof and all the media do.

    They just say that “ignoring” undecided then the latest poll shows support for Independence at 50% and opposed at 50%. Fair enough if none of the undecided ever bothered to vote but they do!

    Now it would seem to me that if I was undecided though actually went out and voted then it is likely that I would vote for the status quo. I mean I’m undecided right but I want to vote, when I get in the voting booth I doubt I’m just going to say “Oh fuck it Independence it is”. In this case a genuine undecided might be more likely to vote No.

    Though the opposite seems to be true in the Brexit vote. Why’s that possible? One reason might be in the case of Brexit that not enough poorer people were polled prior to the vote yet they turned out in a very high percentage contrary to previous General elections say.

    This is where the polls get it all wrong. When you have such a high turnout as you did in Indyref and the Brexit vote, the undecideds play the major role if they decide to vote and it’s where their vote goes in a closely contested result that probably makes the difference.

    This is something WE should all contemplate, find a true undecided and as many as 1 in 8 are in Scotland on the Independence question. We should work on them more than any other “group”. They are the votes that win or lose really close and tight referenda or elections, just my view and have no evidence at all.

    I just don’t think the pollsters deal with this correctly either. Undecided means neither Yes or No and they can’t be split 50/50 to predict a result if most of them then chose to vote. That’s what have screwed up the polls in Indyref, Brexit and Trump votes/election.

  98. lumilumi says:

    Incredible dancing on a head of a pin, there, by A C-H. I especially liked his “They (the SNP) didn’t win an election.”

    Err… The SNP swept the board in the 2015 Westminster FPTP GE, and in the 2016 Holyrood election, increased their popular vote. Due to local circumstances and unionist tactical voting, and, tbf, indy “tactical” voting (looking at you, Greens… and I’m a Green voter in my country!) the SNP didn’t quite get the absolute majority – which wasn’t supposed to be possible anyway. So becoming the biggest party in Holyrood isn’t “winning”. OO-KAY…

    In my country, which has a more PR system than Holyrood, “winning an election” is generally understood as becoming the largest party in parliament, also making gains in the popular vote is considered a “win”. We have about 8 parties in parliament, so we have many winners, many losers. Gaining % of popular vote usually directly means more MPs due to the PR system – though very small parties suffer under our d’Hondt multiple member consistuency system. A party with 1% vote share nationally should have 2 MPs in our 200-member parliament but because of the way the country is divided in “constituencies” (or, rather, “electoral regions”) you need very high local support to make it, which shows up as maybe 4% nationally (but spread out in a few constituencies/regions). My country does not have an official “threshold” (5% nationally or similar) that many other Western European countries have but the effect is the same.

    It’s a very different political culture, produced by the system. Scotland has only had PR since 1999 and still learnig, hampered by still being fettered to the WM system and FPTP thinking. It REALLY irks me when Scots denigrate list MSPs and call them “unelected”. Nicola Sturgeon was one, most of the 2007 SNP win were list MSPs, the SNP won their historic 2011 majority on the numbers of their list MSPs. Don’t get suckered into Westminster-type political thinking. Isn’t that what you’re trying to get away from?!!?

    Our PR political system and political culture – the way we think about politics – has had 111 years to evolve. We got our ALL franchised PR parliament in 1906. Ours was the most democratic in the world at the time, because while NZ granted white women the vote before us, they didn’t fully franchise the Maori. Our full franchise, democratic PR parliament was instituted 11 years before our independence…

    Wait! What? Maybe WE had the most devolved parliament in the world! haha! We’d had our own currency for forty years, we had our own laws, we were pretty much doing our own thing. It was only when the Russian Empire was in its death throes they tried to “russify” us and “take back control”. Needles to say, that didn’t go down well. It turned many moderates into independence supporters.

    The point is, we’ve had more than a hundred years to develop a different political culture. One that is based on PR. We used “party lists” (like in Scotland now) until the mid-1950s, then it’s been “open list” = voters rank candidates on each party’s list, not the party. We also have no FPTP constituencies, so the problem of rejected FPTP candidates getting in on the party-arranged list does not arise.

    Scotland is in a strange limbo of being fettered to Westminster FPTP while trying to develop a PR political culture, and it’s not working – that’s probably the WM establishment aim. Divide and rule, encourage divisive politics, not consensus politics, which is the natural consequence of PR.

    PR typically produces parliaments with no overall majority, so coalition governments are the norm – and seen as a GOOD thing. None of that FPTP, one-party government, UK one-party-state shite. It’s ironic that Labour’s gerrymandering the Scottish system in 1997-1999, with an emphasis on FPTP constituency MSPs is now producing absolute majorities or near enough to their political rivals, working against them. Excuse me while I take a moment to…hahaha! Trying to rig a system and taking votes for granted isn’t working out like they thought it would and they’re very, very angry at the SNP and all the voters who vote “wrong”. What a way to win back voters! Excuse me while I take an other moment to… hahahah!

    Sorry for the long post (if anybody even read it all the way through…). My problem is being verbose. I have not the gift of explaining complex political, historical and social things in just a couple of sentences.

  99. Cal says:

    Thepnr 6.41pm
    …but the status quo this time is to vote to stay in the EU so the undecideds should gravitate to the yes side this time 🙂

  100. sinky says:

    Thepnr
    The percentage of undecided often equates to the number who don’t vote

  101. galamcennalath says:

    lumilumi says:

    Thanks for the insight. iScotland will have a wee bit catching up on the rest of Europe to do.

    voters rank candidates on each party’s list, not the party

    Sounds good. That seems like a good PR system.

    A simple early tweek to the Scottish system would be to have the same set up as now, but only one vote. The regional lists for each party would be generated by the best FPTP candidates who came best losers.

    Like SNP guy 12k, Labour guy 9k. That close loser from Labour would then go into the party regional list, probably top. Dead simple. Means the top up lists always contain the best of the rest.

    In the longer term we need to switch to a system like yours. And have the same system on all elections – that seems essential.

  102. Phil says:

    Thank you Jack Murphy; 11 March, 2017 at 12:10 pm

    Here is the Results Map.
    Direct link to the BBC on-line:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/p

    So, is that right? 6% majority in England outshines 24% opposite majority in Scotland? Says something about our future?

  103. galamcennalath says:

    lumilumi says:

    parliaments with no overall majority, so coalition governments are the norm – and seen as a GOOD thing.

    That also got my attention. I agree completely and hope that iScotland has a parliament my umpteen parties, and governments representing well over half the voters.

    The problem with Holyrood is it contains three Unionist parties whose role used to be to act as proxy rulers for WM. Now, in opposition, they act as agents of WM attempting to undermine Scottish democracy, and nothing else.

    Unless they change their tune completely, I can’t see how they and their MSPs can play any useful role in the iScotland when their sole purpose seems to be to prevent independence.

    Quickly, iScotland will need to invent a left right spectrum of new pro Scottish parties.

  104. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    IIRC Corbyn said he wouldn’t oppose IndyRef2 at WM … BUT seemed to think that following that Labour could somehow keep Scotland in a federal (sort-of) UK made up of regions, with Scotland broken into more than one unit. He said, I believe, that the SNP were terrible centralisers (LMAO!)

    So it’s easy to see what he has in mind. Lotsa super-county councils, lots more seats on a deluxe gravy train for Lab timeservers, lots more opportunities for dodgy dealings, and some nice cosy rest homes for all the party hacks through the long night of Torydom … it might even be better than the EU! 😉

    That’s where some at least of the repatriated EU powers would go, maybe, to this new level. Don’t expect WM to devolve anything of real use. And Scotland, basically you can have your Ref2, but we’ll do our best to kick true indy into the long grass and fob you off with a helping of nice sticky fudge.

  105. Thepnr says:

    @sinky

    I know what you mean and the figures look right but being undecided at the time you are asked the question doesn’t mean you wouldn’t vote.

    I was still undecided running into 2013 but of course I voted, my answer in any poll would have added nothing to the result at that time.

    I’d like the Rev to ask the question next time of the undecided only that if voting was compulsory and you had no choice but to vote then “Should Scotland be an Independent Country” Yes or No.

  106. sinky says:

    I think the question should be Do you believe that Scotland should be a normal self governing country?

  107. Rock says:

    The “undecideds”, dead or alive, are the “silent majority” that voted No last time and will vote No again anytime there is a referendum.

    Do not underestimate the British establishment.

  108. To those asking about the police investigation into possible tory election fraud at the 2015 General Election it was announced this week that the files had been submitted to the C.P.S.
    Apparently it has been whittled down to a maximum of twelve constituencies, and the cut-off date for prosecutions to follow is May, 9th.
    As someone who has no faith that the rich and powerful will ever face justice, it will be interesting to see if anyone is ever indicted.

  109. Thepnr says:

    @lumilumi

    Welcome back and thanks for the post.

  110. bugsbunny says:

    Rock,

    Do you mean the recently dead and the can’t be arsed voters that suddenly appear on the register after 9, aka stuffing the ballot boxes for Labour?

  111. Meindevon says:

    Did anyone see RT at 7.30? Galloway’s Sputnik programme. Missed the very beginning, but George had Brian Wilson (ex Labour mp?) and he managed to get in every single SNP Bad Bingo comment in the space of about seven minutes. No pro Indy person to balance it out. Very disappointing for RT.

  112. ScottishPsyche says:

    The absolute shambles of the Yoon position on anything to do with IndyRef2 really should give an indication how to play this.

    GERS, Oil and the ‘deficit’ are red herrings. In 20 years time they probably won’t even matter. Yet they will bring them out time and again to get the argument bogged down in hypotheticals. They are nothing but a hobby horse for their non-economists who are too scared to debate the big picture. We should always challenge them as representing the main drawback of the Union dividend, not the main benefit.

    This is why the DR gave Hague a column – he could not reach the numbers WoS could, on his blog alone, despite being promoted by every Yoon and their granny. He will go on ad nauseum until the readership drops and then they will get it – it’s not just the economy, stupid!

    All the 3 main BT participants have become increasingly shrill and desperate these past 3 weeks. It will come down to who the Scottish people want to identify with and who they want to be. This we can win.

  113. Bingo Wings Over Scotland says:

    Vestas @ 6:19 pm

    “Voting No? You are a tory. End of story”

    That’s fantastic! I’m using that. :oD

  114. Scott says:

    Will Murdo Fraser be telling us the Queens 15 thrashed Scotland

  115. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Meindevon –

    Blimey…

    Didn’t see it, but sounds like they’re maybe getting their show back on the road? What a pair…

  116. twathater says:

    OT sorry but important for us and Europe

    https://act.wemove.eu/campaigns/no-global-corporate-court-uk?utm_source=civimail-5544&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20170309_EN#

    Please sign up to this site to protect democracy

  117. Rock says:

    bugsbunny,

    “Rock,

    Do you mean the recently dead and the can’t be arsed voters that suddenly appear on the register after 9, aka stuffing the ballot boxes for Labour?”

    They would stuff the ballot boxes for anyone to defeat the SNP and a Yes vote in an independence referendum.

    The Electoral Commission is rotten to the core.

  118. Meg merrilees says:

    Excerpt from BBC interview re J Corbyn saying Indy ref ok.”

    “Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has said that another referendum on Scottish independence would be “absolutely fine”.
    Nicola Sturgeon has repeatedly warned a fresh vote is “highly likely”.
    But Scottish Labour Kezia Dugdale has said her party would oppose any attempt to hold a referendum.
    However, Mr Corbyn told the Press Association it was not the job of Labour “to prevent people holding referenda”.
    Senior Scottish Labour figures have strongly condemned Mr Corbyn – with the party’s justice spokeswoman, Jackie Baillie, describing his comments as “misguided and irresponsible”. and her stating that isn’t?
    She added: “They are an insult to the dedicated work of Scottish Labour MSPs, councillors, and thousands of activists who have campaigned against a divisive second referendum.” “

  119. twathater says:

    sorry again this is my comment re this

    This is the perfect example of this CORRUPT and anti democratic tribunal , how can it be correct or justifiable to penalise a country and government elected by their citizens to protect their health and wellbeing , by rewarding a corporation who has neither the health or wellbeing of these exact same citizens at its centre , but merely the accruement of more wealth for greedy investors irrespective of the damage to people or the environment . To me this brings the very CREDIBILITY of the persons within the EU who are supposed to have the interests of EU citizens at the very core of their being in to question

  120. lumilumi says:

    @ galamcennalath above

    I don’t think you’re quite getting my point. It’s very difficult – well nigh impossible – to reconcile the undemocratic FPTP system and proportional representation (PR).

    That’s probably why Lab (Tony Blair et. al.) designed Holyrood the way they did. Westminster-style FPTP was the ideal (because they thought Scotland was a permanent Lab fiefdom) but making it partly PR made it “seem” more democratic and progressive. The problem came in 2007 when pesky Scots actually preferred the SNP over SLab. It was never in their plan, and they haven’t been able to forgive the voters for betraying them ever since.

    That’s kind or SLab’s problem. They’re angry at all the voters who “betrayed” them. They have no self-reflection on why that happened, and they keep digging

    I understand that many Scots are still wedded to the (undemocratic) idea of a specific FPTP MP, who’ll “look after their (specific, personal) interests” in Westminster.

    Wake up call: MPs in Westminster only look after party interest. Tory, Lab, LibDem… even the SNP. Your “personal” MP will not take an individual voter’s case over bigger politics. He/she might take up a suitable case to score political points. The sham is that UK voters are lead to believe that having “their own” MP (the guy FPTP elected in the area) somehow gives them a voice in parliament or government. It doesn’t.

    PR political culture takes a broader view. You don’t have just one “personal” MP, you have several, representing how the parties fare in your area. The area is much wider than the UK parochial small constituencies, of course. Hey, we have less divisions! An independent country, or is that a bad separatist country, being all divisive at the Russian Empire? haha!

    Our system makes it harder – nearly impossible – for personal grievances to become national politics… uhm… I view that as a good thing.

    But that’s just me, different political culture and all that.

  121. twathater says:

    sorry again this was my comment
    This is the perfect example of this CORRUPT and anti democratic tribunal , how can it be correct or justifiable to penalise a country and government elected by their citizens to protect their health and wellbeing , by rewarding a corporation who has neither the health or wellbeing of these exact same citizens at its centre , but merely the accruement of more wealth for greedy investors irrespective of the damage to people or the environment . To me this brings the very CREDIBILITY of the persons within the EU who are supposed to have the interests of EU citizens at the very core of their being in to question

  122. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Welcome back Mr Brotherhood.

  123. Iain says:

    I agree with Slinky
    that is the question that should be asked.

  124. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @BBC Scotland Tells Lies –

    Hoots!

  125. stu mac says:

    @boris
    =========

    Something is up with the text on these links =- it is microscopic.

  126. Iain says:

    In the21st century do we want the important decisions taken abroad
    Or do you want to make our own decisions.
    It’s up to you?
    London is abroad,21 century brexit

    ,

  127. solarflare says:

    I lost a lot of respect for Corbyn given Labour’s woeful opposition on the HoC Brexit debates, but I heartily endorse him taking every single opportunity to contradict Kezia. It’s just plain funny.

  128. Valerie says:

    I’m delighted Corbyn backs us having a referendum, but I do wonder what’s going on.

    He was up here 2 weeks ago giving it SNP bad, and must have seen Kezias big unveil of her shiny Peoples Constitution nonsense. Kez said Jez was very supportive of it, even though some challenged her on that.

    Now he throws her under a bus. Maybe he’s taking out the trash? But then, he was up here today in Byres Road with MacAveety, talking of trash. Looked like Sarwar was smarming around in the background.

    It’s all very interesting, sort of.

  129. Robert Peffers says:

    @Proud Cybernat says: 11 March, 2017 at 12:40 pm:

    … ““As prime minister of the United Kingdom, I am just as concerned that young people in Dundee get a good start in life and receive the education they need to reach their full potential as I am about young people in Doncaster and Dartford.”

    I already know what Mayhem’s speech means, Proud Cybernat.

    It is not hard to decipher.

    She first states she speaks as, “The Prime Minister of the UK”, and then goes on to say, ” … we will look for ways to collaborate and work together with the devolved administrations to improve the outcomes for everyone.”

    That boils down to this – “We as the government of the United Kingdom, that is really the de facto parliament of the country of England, will look for ways to collaborate and work together with the devolved administrations to improve the outcomes for everyone but especially the better off people of the country of England that runs this United Kingdom because the rest of the United Kingdom countries are our dominions.”

    Her beginning statement that she speaks as the PM of the United Kingdom Government then continues to speak of the three devolved parts of the UK as separate from the United Kingdom Government highlights the truth that the set-up is England, in their eyes, is the United Kingdom and indeed as there is no actual parliament of the country of England it factually is one and the same thing even without the application of EVEL to prevent others voting on what Westminster is their exclusive possession.

  130. lumilumi says:

    The whole of UK politics is a mess.

    Only person who’s making any grown-up sense is Nicola Sturgeon, but she’s been shouted down by Westminster increasingly loony Brexit fantasists, a vile separatist Scot and all that. Dissident, daring to question the wonderfullness of “Empire 2.0” Brexit British Empire fantasy.

    Jeeez, you really couldn’t make this up. Really. Only two years ago I thought this would be impossible.

  131. galamcennalath says:

    lumilumi says:

    It’s very difficult – well nigh impossible – to reconcile the undemocratic FPTP system and proportional representation (PR).

    No, I agree. What I was suggesting was a quick fix we could change the additional member lists so they became voter selected rather than party selected very easily.

    That would be a definite and very simple improvement. Although not full PR it would make all MSPs voter chosen.

    In the longer term we would want to move away from any FPTP component. Full PR and the same system for all levels of government.

  132. Norselion says:

    What was the outcome of the Police Investigation into A-C Hamilton’s election expenses? And why was the party whip not taken away from him whilst under investigation similar to SNP Politicians

    https://stv.tv/news/politics/1368170-police-probe-irregularities-in-msp-s-election-spending/

  133. Artyhetty says:

    Really? Corbyn is no friend of Scotland, he is playing games. So is Clegg, they are hoping to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff.

    I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. Let’s not forget the vow, the daily lies, the siding with the tories to undermine the SNP.

    These people do not have Scotland’s best interests at heart, to put it lightly. Never ever trust a tory, whichever colour they happen to represent, and these people do represent the tories.

  134. galamcennalath says:

    So, will Mayhem trigger Article 50 on Tuesday?

    Wednesday is The Ides so perhaps no a good choice.

    https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382858-house-of-lords-expected-to-pass-brexit-bill-on-monday/

  135. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @lumilumi –

    ‘The whole of UK politics is a mess.’

    Yeah, it is. It’s an embarrassment.

    You use the word ‘whole’, and that seems to be key here – it’s no longer whole, but we have this great ongoing metaphor in the supposedly urgent refurbishment of Westminster Palace. How many billions? Just pick a number, any number, and any number of years for completion. And for what? To perpetuate an 18th-century model of discourse based on medieval class systems? To maintain a facade of ‘unity’ which has to accommodate representatives of communities who have made it clear – democratically – that they would prefer not to be there? It’s utterly absurd and cannot possibly hold much longer.

    God only knows what your friends and family think of us. I can’t even begin to imagine how bizarre it must appear from ‘overseas’ ’cause it’s fucking hard enough to get a handle on it from right here ‘inside’ it all.

    🙁

  136. stonefree says:

    Kevin meina 4:20 pm
    Why are unionists so angry I could almost taste the venom Simple Labour have been “stealth canvassing” for about a Year in the area

  137. galamcennalath says:

    Artyhetty says:

    Corbyn is no friend of Scotland, he is playing games. So is Clegg, they are hoping to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff.

    Maybe they are all taken in by the London Bubble belief that it all just bluff because the SNP are only trying to squeeze more concessions.

    If Mayhem triggers A50 too, it may be a concerted effort to call Nicola’s bluff.

    Let’s face it, they just don’t understand 21stC politics in Scotland.

  138. HandandShrimp says:

    Jeremy’s contribution today seems fine to me but Baillie and Co seem to be taking less well 🙂

    Meanwhile Willie is telling us the nine Liberal MPs will vote against a second referendum. No real surprise there…Willie is so Unionist he makes Struth look like a Liberal.

  139. geeo says:

    I think it is safe to say that as soon as Article 50 is invoked, there will be a collective unionist shriek demanding the SNP announce the referendum that none of them, (apparently) want…..

    Strange place, yoontoon.

  140. Oh….The runaway train came over the hill and she blew….

  141. HandandShrimp says:

    If A50 is triggered on Tuesday I think there is a distinct possibility that the first step towards a Section 30 request may follow shortly afterwards.

  142. Ghillie says:

    That was big of Jeremy to say we could have our Independence Referendum.

  143. Still Positive says:

    Well said Valerie @11.28.

  144. Sandy says:

    Alex Cole-Hamilton – ACH.

    Ach, ignore the twat.

  145. lumilumi says:

    I shouldn’t even be here, arguing for democracy in Scotland. I’m not living in Scotland atm.

    My country has local elections in early April, less than a month away. I’ve been on the “election machines” put out by the national broadcaster YLE – which really is more impartial than the BBC – and big media houses.

    The stupid thing is that most of the media and the parties make the local elections a national thing, to have a barometer on national politics.

    They completely ignore local idiosyncrasies. This party or that might do well due to local issues, it’s not directly replicable on national level.

    Local councils – municipalities – have a lot of power in my country. For instance, they set local income tax. Yes, you pay different income tax depending on where you live. You also have different local services. It’s the flipside of local democracy. Daily Mail and their ilk would call it “postcode lottery”, though it isn’t lottery. Richer municipalities provide better services, duh!

    My country is trying to go through a major health and social services overhaul but it’s been bogged down for years by differing political factions. Privatisation or not? How much privatisation? How to intergrate health & social, how to make things work in practice, how to pay for it…

    We now have a stupid government, sort of righty (though left of UK Labour) who think privatising some health and social care will make it “more efficient”.

    I just cannot understand the stupidity of these people. Like, wouldn’t the runners of privatised H&S need to turn enough profit to pay high wages to their executives. Oh, and some to invest back in the “golden goose” to keep it running, though I doubt any proper investment – call me a cynic. Because these care companies will be owned by shady holding companies registered in some tax haven, and we, ordinary people will be paying for their tax-avoidence.

    It’s an ideological desicion, not financial or public health – though potential money to protect and care for the suitable, right people comes into it – and old-fashioned public health services like the Scottish NHS won’t mean shit. It’ not “viable” if it won’t turn a profit to some rampant capitalist.

  146. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Lumilumi.

    Your input is always of interest and gives cause for thought. I’ve never found anything you type to be disagreeable. Keep it up! (That means “continue” in case it’s a phrase that has escaped your excellent command of English.)

  147. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @lumilumi –

    Yeah, I hear ye loud and clear.

    What you also know, being familiar with our predicament, is how close we are to being able to enact the kind of reform we want to see, be it electoral or otherwise.

    We’re *so* close to having that freedom. It must be obvious to our European neighbours that we are being thwarted by a very powerful neighbour who simply cannot afford to let us go.

    I hope it’s as obvious as it appears to be, and that the EU will present May with the clear response they’ve promised as and when she announces that the divorce proceedings are underway.

    It’ll be interesting to see how the Tories stage the pulling of the ‘trigger’, and how Labour will respond. Mini-Union-Jacks to appear out of all breast-pockets simultaneously?

    It would all be comical if it wasn’t so tragic.

  148. ballevullin says:

    Squire Corbyn of Spart Hall has graciously deigned to offer us a referendum.

    As long as it’s only pretendy independence that we’re voting for.

    Pretindy, you could say.

  149. Grouse Beater says:

    Oh, a what a surprise, a Westminster-minded politician implies his party will block Scotland’s democratic progress – and he has no shame acknowledging his party has ‘democratic’ in its title.

    Your weekend reading

    When banks were banks: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-emm
    When primates were zoo exhibits: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-emp

  150. ScottishPsyche says:

    Jackie Baillie and Ian Murray to lead BetterTogether2.

  151. Still Positive says:

    ScottishPsyche @ 12.24.

    Wonderful. I look forward to it. Ha Ha.

  152. lumilumi says:

    Aw. so nice to hear aw your welcoming messages, BrianDoonthetoon, Ian Brotherhood, galamcennalath (apologies if I spelled that wrong), yer jist aw awful vile cybernats, so yer are. Vile, frankly.

    Aren’t you vile racists misogynists as well? That’s what the MSM told me, eh? hahaha.

    This next independencs campaign will be marred by Bitter Together/Scotland in Union, all kinds of bampots.

    Why is Scottish independence sich anathema to the Westminster government?

    Err… I’m only a stupid foreigner who doesn’t understand why Scotland’s oil is the BAD burdensome kind. Meanwhie in Norway: hahahaha!

    I think the one thing proud British Brexiters can’t take is the rest of the world saying they’re stupid and an international laughing stock. “But, but, Empire 2.0! We’ll ta,e back the Empire

  153. meg merrilees says:

    The Sunday Post proudly announces latest opinion poll shows:

    over 60’s would vote 30% YES 70% NO but admit that they think Scotland will eventually become independent despite what they vote.

    Well done DC Thompson – just trying to create even more division – this time between young and old.

    How do we tell these folk to stop being selfish old people and vote for the future your grandchildren need. (I”m 60 and despairing – the future doesn’t belong to me. It’s my nieces and nephews and their children’s future.)

    Is it as simple as lack of access to real, true, online news?

    As has been said before, these are the very people who would walk through fire to vote!

    We have to get the young to vote!

  154. lumilumi says:

    I had an interwebby problem, so the previous post got abbreviated.

    I meant to finish with “But, but the Empire 2.0! We’ll take back our Empire! With innovative jams and teas!”

    “And if the world stupidly won’t acknowledge our British superiority, we’ll just say everybody else is wrong, like we’ve always done and will always do, so there! Nah-nah-nah!”

    I hope British diplomats will be slightly more… intelligent and considered. (Hey, I’m an optimist by nature! It COULD happen!)

  155. Valerie says:

    @meg Merrilees

    I think that poll will get shredded. Just saw on Twitter that Ashcroft shows the over 60 Yes vote was 27% at referendum, so that means its up 3%!

    When you think about it, 3% probably makes sense in deaths, and people moving in the age groups.

    When I saw the Post front page, I thought it was garbage, because I reckoned it was around those figures, so it hadn’t moved.

    So I’m sure the stats folk are on it.

  156. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    meg merrilees @ 01:15,

    I disagree that stating that “over 60’s admit that they think Scotland will eventually become independent despite what they vote” is inherently “divisive”. (Oooh, that awful word again! =grin=)

    While it’s an undisputed fact that the 60+ age group are skewed towards “no”, and for fairly obvious reasons, I believe (ever-optimistic old me) that the above point actually reveals an opening, a helpful hint of how to influence them.

    You see, believing that a change is inevitable is far softer than being irresolutely opposed for ever and a day. It’s the first step in a journey that ends in believing that the time for change is now. As I’ve said before, one campaign we must run is an appeal on behalf of the very young, all the under-age non-voters, asking the older generation of active voters to act on their behalf and bequeath them the very future that the “oldies” already believe is coming along anyway.

    So be of good cheer. It’s a sign of a possible way forward, even with that apparently most intractable segment of society.

  157. yesindyref2 says:

    Oil & Gas UK “BUSINESS OUTLOOK 2017”.

    Unit Operating Costs ($/barrel of oil equivalent)
    2013 – 26.3
    2016 – 15.3
    2017 forecast – 14.1 to 14.6

    The drop in Unit Development Costs in $/barrel of oil equivalent are even better! Startling in fact 🙂

    http://oilandgasuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Business-Outlook-2017-Oil-Gas-UK.pdf

    “I’m an offshore worker” seem to be crawling out of the pipelines, this is a good refutation – the report from “Oil & Gas UK, the voice of the offshore industry
    The trade association that speaks for the whole sector”

  158. ronnie anderson says:

    lumilumi Nice to see you hitting the keyboard again Big Hugs ya furrinnar .

  159. Alex says:

    ‘Heroically-glaikit’ is bang-on, Stuart. The SNP ‘didn’t win an election’ and listen to what Christine wossername said are the highlights in a litany of lies. Still, they’ve got form there, haven’t they?
    Is this really the best the illiberal Despots can do?

  160. Giving Goose says:

    OT apologies.
    Meanwhile in Beauly…
    Popped into local shop yesterday for a National and found one hidden under some other rags.

    So there are yoons everywhere prepared to make the effort and hide the National from view.

    I’m guessing that these self appointed guardians of the empire assume that a gong will be forthcoming in the honours list from their London masters.

    That’s a form of campaigning.
    It’s also a form of forelock tugging.

  161. Robert Louis says:

    Thanks to those above, early in this thread who posted the link to the complete polling results for the EU referendum, it is extremely useful to go back and look at the data.

    In Edinburgh, near 75% voted to remain (on a 73% turnout, yet whilst we are shackled to England in this wholly dysfunctional and undemocratic UK ‘union’, Edinburgh, and Scotland, which voted overwhelmingly, and in every single constituency, to remain by a very large margins, will be dragged out of the EU.

    If anybody asks, what is the difference between the EU union and the UK union, then you have it right there. In the EU union, a country such as France cannot simply decide it is leaving the EU, and take Germany with it against Germany’s wishes, but in the UK union, England has decided to leave the EU, and despite the people of Scotland voting overwhelmingly to remain and the Scottish Government wishing to remain, Scotland will be forcibly taken OUT of the EU against its wishes.

    THAT, is the democratic deficit, that is the wholly dysfunctional nature of the UK supposed ‘union’. Westminster has zero mandate to forcibly remove Scotland from the EU, yet that is what it wants to do. It is undemocratic, it is unfair. It is the kind of things we might expect of rogue, despotic states.

    When you look at the actual results and the strength of voting against leaving the EU in Scotland, in many ways you can argue that the response of the Scottish Government has been mild. In other places around the world, we might expect real violence.

    It really is a case of ‘shut the f*** up Scotland, we in England are leaving the EU, and we really don’t give a flying f**** what you in Scotland think or want, so YOU will be forcibly made to leave too’. If that does not break up the UK ‘union of equals’, then nothing will.

    Theresa May’s London Government really will go down in history as one of the most undemocratic, unfair, despotic and damaging Government’s in world history.

    To hell with them all.

    Map and results, here,

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/politics/eu_referendum/results

  162. Effijy says:

    What was the outcome of the Police Investigation into A-C Hamilton’s election expenses?

    What was the outcome of the Police Investigation into wee Ruth Harrison admitting on TV that she had seen opened postal votes before the referendum count began?

    What was the result of 32 English Police authorities investigating broken election expenses caps in the last general election?

    What punishment was handed out for the guilty party’s in the Multi-Million ponds Chilcot report?

    What punishment was handed out to Carmichael, the Liar, for his crime against the First Minister and wasting £1 Million of public funds?

    They all part of UK/Westminster Corruption, and they are here to stay as long as Scotland has any association with them.

    We must have Independence, Freedom, and Justice!

  163. Big Jock says:

    Record saying Sturgeon won’t announce indi-ref at SNP conference. Wants to be seen talking to the country rather than delegates!

    So if May triggers article 50 on Tuesday. Will Nicola address Scotland at Bute house the same day. Or would she leave it hanging until after the conference.

  164. Cal says:

    O/T Has anyone else noticed that when you search “Brexit” in Google there’s always an advert for the “Scotland” Office informing you how important trade with rUK is for Scotland? Subtle brain washing as only the British state knows how. How much would that cost to set up with Google I wonder?

  165. frogesque says:

    @ Big Jock 8.20

    Nicola is the First Minister of the Nation of Scotland. It is right and proper that she addresses the Nation either at Holyrood or from Bite House.

    The whys and wherefores of the SNP Indy campaign can be addressed at the SNP conf.

    Don’t forget there is a wider Indy movement and there are also soft NOs and harder Unionists to involve. This absolutely has to be a decision for all of Scotland including EU citizens, 16 year olds as well as the over 60s.

  166. Breeks says:

    Cal @8:35

    What I have noticed is whenever and wherever this any story remotely anti European, you don’t have to look very far for links to the Express or the Telegraph. It seems to sponsor a lot of click bait “pass the time” websites and sequential image sites, like 20 best dressed celebrities or something equally trivial designed to get you clicking through 20 pages on online advertising. It’s all subtly done, (though not always), but once it registers, you can’t stop seeing the Express and Telegraph tentacles everywhere; from online news to trivia, quietly nurturing angsts and prejudices.

    Given the Express and its loathsome agendas, I actually find it quite sinister. There’s an awful lot more to the Express than just a newspaper. Outwardly banal, but masking something darker and manipulative beneath the gloss. Very similar in fact to the ubiquitous BBC.

    The Express on the internet is like the piss in a swimming pool.

  167. Mike says:

    Cal says,
    Google goes straight to Scotland office information when you search brexit, yes it does. They also pay everytime you click on it could be up to a pound a go. So let’s click on it several times a day and bust their advertising budget.

  168. Robert Louis says:

    Big jocj at 0820am,

    I never for one moment expected the FM to announce a referendum at conference. As FM, her responsibility is NOT to announce such things at her own party conference, but via her official position, at Bute house and Parliament.

    It is only the English run and owned media which seems to believe that the Scottish Government makes announcements such as that during a party conference. Just because the English Tory Government behaves like that, doesn’t mean we will.

    Of Course NS can say what she expects to be the official response, but an actual Government announcement such as that could never come at conference. Besides, it needs a vote (for which their is a majority) in the Parliament. It’s called democracy- something London has forgotten.

  169. Chick McGregor says:

    @Cal
    ‘Has anyone else noticed that when you search “Brexit” in Google there’s always an advert for the “Scotland” Office informing you how important trade with rUK is for Scotland?’

    The hypocrisy of this is that Britnats have always been quick to complain about ‘The Rotterdam Effect’, where trade between Britain and The Netherlands and between Britain and the EU is grossly misrepresented. Goods from the UK going through Rotterdam can end up anywhere in the EU and beyond and goods from elsewhere in the EU and beyond arriving in Rotterdam and then shipped to the UK are counted as Dutch exports to the UK.

    And Rotterdam, whilst the largest port in Europe, remains only one of several logistically sensible transportation routes from the Southern UK.

    In Scotland’s case, transportation logistics dictate that for most of the Southern part of Europe the economically sensible route is through England. A greater potential for a proportionately much larger ‘England Effect’ to distort Scottish trade statistics with England than the much vaunted Rotterdam Effect but gets nary a mention.

  170. louis.b.argyll says:

    Yes Breeks, the Express, Telegraph, Mail..must be spending VAST SUMS to keep all this hatred IN OUR FACES. They’re all over the net.

  171. louis.b.argyll says:

    Do no harm.. eh?

    Oh yes..do no harm AFTER we take the evil penny.

  172. Valerie says:

    I’ve recently started following an author on Twitter, because I liked what he was saying. Then I found out he’s an ex cop from the Met who was a Whistleblower about manipulation of data, appearing in front of a Westminster enquiry.

    He wrote a thread with Brexit worst case scenarios and it went viral. I think it’s very accurate. Common space have picked him up now, and this is the piece.

    Read it and be very afraid, because it articulates why I’m thinking I want out of this country if we vote No again.

    https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10332/jj-patrick-15-step-portrait-brexit-fallout-leave-voters-didnt-see-coming

  173. Legerwood says:

    Artyhetty says:
    11 March, 2017 at 10:38 pm
    “”Really? Corbyn is no friend of Scotland, he is playing games. So is Clegg, they are hoping to call Nicola Sturgeon’s bluff.

    I wouldn’t trust them as far as I could throw them. Let’s not forget the vow, the daily lies, the siding with the tories to undermine the SNP.””
    ……..

    According to reports in the Sunday Herald Mr Corbyn has already backtracked on his statement yesterday about being OK with a second indy ref.

    The time between statement and retraction ust be a bit of a record even for him.

  174. Smallaxe says:

    lumilumi says: @ 1:37am

    “I hope British diplomats will be slightly more… intelligent and considered. (Hey, I’m an optimist by nature! It COULD happen!)”

    I commend your grasp of the English language, may I correct one word in the above statement? “Diplomats” The word is “Diplodocus” when applied to the English version of these supposed mediators and representatives of the UK.

    They are actually dinosaurs who survived the extinction 65 million years ago.Noticeably although their body has evolved, Unfortunately, their brain has regressed, eg “Farageasaurus” and the “Theresamaysaurus Vex”.

    Peace Always

  175. heedtracker says:

    NHS
    Opinion
    We need a £4bn cash injection now to save the health and care services
    Tim Farron

    Graun’s not reported on FibDem conference at all this week, twas all a dream. Very mean of Graun liggers like Carrrell to not even bother going along to FibDem thing, wherever it was, as they did pile in hard behind CLegg’s Cameron coalition not that long ago, thereby bringing to an end one of the UK’s oddest political parties.

    Cant even say rats leaving sinking ships, as the ships are now at the bottom of the ocean but even so, one mention Graun, one measly little mention, send along a cub reporter, or even a cub, but no?

  176. Ann Rayner says:

    Love the description of A C-H as heroically glaiket. Certainly a lot more accurate than a BBC presenter(Glen Campbell?) who described him as charismatic!!

  177. Rock says:

    For the record, a certain poster’s self imposed exile lasted a month.

    Ian Brotherhood,
    11 February, 2017 at 12:59 am

    “Rock and his supporters are – successfully – choking the life out of creative, informative discourse on this site.

    No more appealing to Rev, or anyone else – I’m out.”

  178. yesindyref2 says:

    @Valerie
    From that article straight away this is wrong:

    Scotland swiftly moves through an independence referendum with a 60 per cent Yes vote and moves to separate, but Westminster blocks the call and attempts to repatriate devolved powers. (May has threatened this in her Brexit speech).

    May said no such thing about repatriating powers in the case of a YES vote, and to me it’s clear that after a YES vote she would not block Independence. She made her comments in the context of Brexit and Scotland within the UK – i.e. no referendum, or a NO vote.

  179. gus1940 says:

    Louis B at 9.49

    The Express is obviously bunging money to The Herald as every day in the list of promoted stories on the on-line edition there are items from The Express.

  180. robertknight says:

    Yoons at the prospect of Indy Ref II…

    They shite their collective breeks, for they ken full well what awaits them!

    For that reason, watch Westmonster stall any referendum until AFTER Brexit is concluded and the Yookay has dragged Scotland out of the EU.



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