If you love someone, keep them prisoner
Posted on
September 13, 2014 by
Rev. Stuart Campbell
An interesting piece in the Herald today:
Right there, in just two sentences, the spirit of the Union: English people think they should have been allowed to force the Scots to remain in the UK against their will.
If 70% of English people voted against independence (or even in fact, if just 70% of the 56% who think they should have had a vote did), it would have vastly outweighed even 100% of Scots voting Yes. That, readers, is the respect the people of England have for Scottish self-determination and democracy. Every single Scot could have voted for independence, and England’s view is that they should have been able to, and would, force Scotland to stay in the UK.
We’re just going to leave it at that.
Hegemony not democracy
Many unionists on both sides of the border just don’t get it. They see the UK as “their country” but it is not a country. It is a union, an alliance, a marriage, call it any of these but please do not consider it to be a proper country.
A union, or alliance, or marriage is by mutual consent. Both sides have to agree to it. If one side wants out, then it doesn’t really matter what the other side wants.
By all means, our friends and relatives in England and elsewhere should speak out and express themselves if they so desire.
But the decision, rightfully, is for the people of Scotland alone.
This is an ideal illustration of the democratic defecit for anyone who still doesn’t get it (or refuses to).
Hi
Just to let you know there are many people in England who hope the yes vote goes through and feel the pain of Westminster and neoliberalism as much as you do. We can’t wait to be rid of Cameron, Clegg, Miliband- and look forward to the day when our communities can also vote for a more equal and self determining society. I as an English woman wish you all the best.
Brits never understood democracy the empire mindset is inbuilt.
Yep, had the same point of view put across by an English friend last night.
Going by their own logic, the inevitable rUK referendum on leaving the EU should include a vote by the residents of every other EU member state, which would nullify the will of rUK.
The Uk is to democracy
what the Sahara is to rain –
occasionally but soon disappears.
This Referendum has been totally discgraced with the blatant breaches in the PURDAH rules and is an insult to us all yes and no alike the way the UK has acted in this campaign is disgraceful all the unchallenged mistruths and obvious twisting of the facts to suit the elites in westminster even if its a no vote the scottish goverment should either reform of at least disband the BBC in scotland i wont pay for propoganda.
We’re have a rally in support of a Scottish YES vote outside our Senedd in Cardiff today. It starts at 2pm.
This is exactly my response to people who accuse nationalists of hating the English.
I don’t hate the English; I hate the English attitudes toward and treatment of minorities. We’re very lucky to have been offered the opportunity to choose to no longer be a minority in Britain. Why wouldn’t I say Yes to that?
Hi Stu
Could you please check out this if you can,this is the more likely imprisonment scenario:::
London’s Devious Plans For Scotland’s Independence Referendum
10.09.2014|09:54
Wayne MADSEN
Strategic-Culture.org
It’s from the Strategic Culture Foundatin online journal
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority
Exactly.
It’s up to the people living in Scotland and not to a majority in England whose vote would outnumber ours and make it impossible for us to gain independence.
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
David Folkerts-Landau, Chief Economist of Deutsche Bank, who has claimed that Scotland would have a “Great Depression” if independent, has a second home he bought for US $11.6 million dollars.
It’ll be a comfort to those in Scotland’s foodbank queues,
to know that David F-Landau will be warm this winter.
BBC News channel’s Dateline London. Hilarious. ‘Volcanic’, ‘cataclysmic’, ‘what about Corsica, Texas and the Bavarians?’. Getting close to Fawlty Towers or the Inbetweeners in causing belly laughs. Comedy gold.
Stu
Most of those 70% wouldn’t have got your point. Their mindset is that they should decide what is best for London / Kent / Essex etc
They think we are Better Together and they are absolutly right….better for them!
As a Welshman who has recently spent 7 months living in the imperial capital I was confused to say the least by the attitudes I encountered. There was none of this “we are all British together” stuff but a deep seated suspicion of anything that could be described as different; other. This included Scotland and Scottish people. Scotland was generally derided but almost everyone was opposed to Scottish independence. From my point of view, I once had a brief mobile phone conversation in Welsh in the local pub in Essex and the looks I got were not to be believed. Go for it Scotland and do us all a favour, but most importantly yourselves.
The union of great Britain is a political construct, nothing more and nothing less, the eu is the same. Why does Westminster think it any different?
Jings. Imagine in 2017 if France, Germany, Italy and Spain all decide they should get a vote to keep rUK in the EU!
Sky news sports line. 11.45 am
We are too poor, wont funding, wont get into Rio Olympics, need to be accepted by the UN? fear fear fear blah blah blah crap. SO don’t vote YES for the name of sport people. Unbelievable.
A modern PR Holyrood entirely accountable to the people of Scotland from this time next week or whatever England thinks royal billionaires and a thousand unelected Lords are.
And oh look a super rich German bankster’s been given free reign to shit all over Scottish democracy but the real tragedy for Scotland and the real legacy of Labour in Scotland’s 70 years reign here, is Scottish wages are so much lower than the rest of the EU, Scots economy will attract huge investment.
Thanks for that future Lady Johann, Crash and the Flipper, Bliar, Murphy, wounded bayoneter Ian Davidson etc.
Exactly how they treated Ireland until 1922.
That the English think they should have had a vote just does not make any sense at all. What they can decide is who they should vote in at the next general election to represent them. They are made to feel powerless by westminster, especially the poor. Politics and the economics of their own country are matters for the elite they are led to believe. It is time they started to educate themselves on how their country is being run and has been for eons, instead of blaming the Scottish people for daring to choose a better way forward. Let us hope that a YES vote will engage people in the politics of England, the alternative is that Scotland will go down with the sinking ship for sure.
Even neofascism can’t avoid teamGB real world stuff. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2317698/Gap-CEOs-pay-average-salaries-grows-outgoing-JC-Penney-head-earned-nearly-1-800-times-average-cashier.html
By international law independence can not be imposed by that nation’s government, nor by an outside nation.
To be recognised as a legitimate movement the demand for indpendence must arise from the ground up, from the people.
Neither can these phoney liggers either
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/13/pay-inequality-britain-economic-recovery
Pay inequality is suffocating Britain’s economic recovery – and our society
When a CEO can take home in three days what it takes the rest of us a year to earn, we really need to question our priorities
I am truly appalled at the violent intimidation business dubious companies and financial institutions have thrown at Scotland and its people – entities who have made vast profits from the people, and are now desperate to subvert the course of democracy, and rights of the people.
Vote Yes to regain ownership of our own country!
“Right there, in just two sentences, the spirit of the Union: English people think they should have been allowed to force the Scots to remain in the UK against their will.”
People weren’t polled on the question of ‘Do you think Scotland should be forced to stay in the UK?’, they were polled on ‘Do you think you should have had a vote/say’. I very much doubt they took into account by how much they outnumber us when answering the question. I imagine it’s the point that’s come up time and time again:
“This referendum affects 55 million of us and we don’t get a say”
This is petty, petty stuff
In other news Rory still trying to get people to pile up stones in Cumbria.
Also bizarrely asking them to “bring children, bring food to share”. It’s all starting to sound like something from the wickerman
http://www.rorystewart.co.uk/will-mean-wake-next-week-find-scotland-left-forever/
@thomaspotter.
That was a good article, everyone should have a read at it.
Sorry O/T. I hear Dunoon is fairly rocking today, my daughter’s over for a visit.
Well done Dave McEwan-Hiil and all the Yes shop people.
For every UKOK CEO tax evader help is always there, at a price. Malclom Offord, the millionaire City boy that set up grass roots vote Nob orders.com, makes a lot mullah advising both the happy tax evading CEO’s and the UK.gov
https://www.gov.uk/government/groups/high-net-worth-unit-external-stakeholder-forum
Future Lord Malky, where’s all the untaxed CEO dosh disappeared too? Dont ask Malky, he’s too busy working at grass roots vote NO level, saving the union. http://www.votenoborders.co.uk/ with massive from BBC and ligger of the year Gavin Esler. Check out the good people that vote No and Malky wouldn’t be seen dead with.
I tell my antagonistic English friends to reverse the position:
What would they feel hearing all day?:
The Queen of Scotland.
What is good for England passed by Holyrood.
How many flaky powers Scotland will allow England.
England should be treated as a pariah, a subsidy junky.
the YES win will be even better because MSM never saw it coming
OO all over sky OOOh!
1,0000’s take to the streets. OOh! not officially part of NO!
Aye right! Probably not a politician to be seen. A bit unsavoury.
I think they might just be beginning to understand who the parasite in this relationship really is.
OT anyone watching rangers game see any blatant show of no banners.
This is the last Saturday of being a subject nation
Paul Murphy is spot on.
I read this and quoted it on another thread … To many down south the idea of Scottish independence is “self evidently absurd”. It does capture just how far our thinking is from some English people’s.
Quite frankly they are utterly gob smacked that it might actually happen!
The reasons for their opposition must be like an onion, layer upon layer. Many think England=Britain so it is a national insult – what is wrong with their wonderful country that we no longer which to disassociate? Then they believe we are subsidy junkies who should be grateful rather than assertive. Perhaps some believe we belong it them, in a colonial sense. Some don’t see their BritNat believes for what they are and can’t understand our further to the left views. It goes on and one – an orgy of ignorance.
Many English genuinely think they should have a vote because they consider the UK to be “their country”. What we are doing is threatening to rip “their country” apart.
This could be argued de facto, that the UK is a de facto country. In reality, however, the UK is not a country, it never has been and it never will be.
Scots aren’t the only ones who have, for 300 years, been confused by the union.
Luigi: Scots aren’t the only ones who have, for 300 years, been confused by the union.
A fine observation.
I keep hearing the same imperialist monomania – ‘our country,’our great nation,’ and so on, and so forth.
It’s a union of two nations – unhappily one exploited.
OO all over sky OOOh!
1,0000’s take to the streets. OOh! not officially part of NO!
Aye right! Probably not a politician to be seen. A bit unsavoury.
On BBC radio this morning, traffic disruptions were announced in Edinburgh today, because of “a march”!
The BBC traffic lady was obviously told not to mention the Orange Order!
While the conclusion is ultimately the same, I think rather than draw conclusions about respect English people may or may not have, I’d focus on the fact that the unequal sizes of the partners of the Union demonstrates that every single voter in Scotland could vote yes and England could outvote it. It’s the same with general elections, and shows how broken the Union is.
Quite extraordinary, a BBC presenter was talking from Glasgow with around five NO supporters standing behind her holding up No posters, and then a woman with a single YES poster appeared in the background. The camera then cut to the studio where the studio presenter the said we seem to have lost the feed. The feed then came back on with the YES supporter removed and the five No still in the background.
It really had to be seen to be believed.
“We want tae stay strong, we want tae stay British,” says woman to a SKY reporter.
The issue was always not how hard Westminster might hit us, but how many of our kith and kin will be so inculcated and lacking in courage, they will vote for worse to come.
Rory the Tory invites us all to help build his cairn for NO today, but I can’t decide now. Do I go and watch the Orange Order march for No in Embro, maybe get kicked to fcuk or do I head to Rory the Tory’s cairn with hundreds and thousands of Scotland boherers. Might get lucky with all that Scotland we really love you goin down. Not sure about Rory’s “bring children” thing. Its just that after nightmares like Rotherham and these guys can’t even begin to protect their most vulnerable, but are desperate to close down Scotland’s democracy, England’s ruling classes have other priorities basically
“Let us gather, therefore, in our hundreds and thousands and show that we care and believe in the future of Britain. Come this weekend to the Hands Across the Border cairn at Gretna, and demonstrate all the energy of Britain. Bring a stone, painted with a message, to lay on the cairn.
Bring children, bring food to share with Scots, Welsh, English and Northern Irish. There will be a free music festival at the cairn this Saturday afternoon, with bands from all four nations – and some great musicians from Cumbria. The music itself will show with every chord, the range and strength of British culture.”
This has been a recurrent message from the English and I do mean English. Anyone who made the mistake I made of trying to engage with them, to put them right about what was happening, well it was like talking to a child. They also love to say “the canny Scots won’t go, too happy living off us”. Well I for one am happy to let them discover the hard way.
Seriously stop paying the BBC, they are taking the piss.
Union politics, Faslane style.
Heedtracker, We got a Vote No Borders leaflet this morning. Slovenia Girlfriend had an article written in it. Going back in the post with a few amendments this afternoon, unfortunately for Vote No Borders, no return address but seeing they are in bed with the other crowd, they can pay the postage and charge Vob.
Watching BBC and SKY news and all their British correspondents keep saying “now over to our Scotland correspondent”. How fucking patronising.
I’ve new ever heard a British correspondent say “now over to our England correspondent” when speaking about England. Britain is England and England is Britain in their eyes.
Nothing more, nothing less.
I absolutely get the 70% of English people in the UK who apparently want a No vote. I also get the 56% who feel they should have had a vote in the referendum. They feel something they value – the UK – is being taken away from them without their consent. I also get the No voters in Scotland who feel British rather than Scottish. Here’s the thing, though: does anyone really believe we’d be where we are today if David Cameron hadn’t insisted on taking Devo Max off the ballot paper? That option would have won hands down, we wouldn’t be talking of a break up of the UK, many Yes and No voters would have been campaigning on the same side, and I might have been whether to vote for Yes or Devo Max. I’m not saying this is all down to DC, but he certainly took a gamble on the future of the UK when he forced us to make a stark choice between Yes and NO. If he wins, he’s the darling of his party. If he loses, Boris the spider will get him for sure…
Having lived in England for 10 years, Britain is England And England is Britain where I was referred to as a sweaty, porridge wog, speaking jockanese And repeatedly asked to say “amusing” little phrases such as somebodys murdered the purple burglar”.
Went to work I Dover for a period and was asked by colleagues where I was from. Told ythem Aberdeen and was sneeringly asked “where the fuck is that”?
Took some colleagues up from England to Perthshire hill walking and on arrival, they were adamant that the FA cup final that night would take precedence over an old firm fiinal And be showed in the hotel pub.Massive strop when they found out the reality.
More recently, I have noticed many recent BBC television programmes broadcast UK wide, where presenters travelling abroad refer to Britain as “back home in England”.
We will be extinguished as a Nation after a No vote and subsumed.
This attitude is what Cameron et al have whipped up, it’s on every news thread, the arrogance of the Scots, when we give them all this free stuff. The landslide of crap, misinformation, never stops, never changes. I feel sick at the thought of a No vote, and the kicking that will follow.
Funnily enough was in London a few months back visiting Family,
and of course was asked about Independence, by strangers and family alike and all were satisfied with the answer that I wanted
to live in a country that was run by a Government that I voted for.
@ Helena Brown, yes future lord Malky really loves my Slovene girlfriend, who is no doubt over here in Edinburgh marching in the Slovene lodge band right the noo.
Check out OO’s own propagandist Libby Carrell of the Graun trying desperately to film as many of the huge cheering OO crowds of Embro as is possible on an iphone
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/scottish-independence-blog/live/2014/sep/13/scottish-independence-referendum-campaign-live
True democracy.
Gotta love it. 🙂
Hopefully this exercise will bring home to some, the true nature of our union of parliaments.
The people of each country have always had the power to decide where and how they are governed.
UK is smelly
At least Tory Rory didn’t say ‘Bring food. Bring children to share.’ Even though he is a pillar if the British Establishment.
Meanwhile, the Tory-Right prepare Boris for premiership – probably not all far off if Cameron loses Scotland from its shrinking list of territories to exploit.
Boris might get into the history books after all, not as the proto-fascist that he is, but as the only politician to move from the post of Mayor of London, to Member of Parliament, and then to Prime Minister in the course of a single year.
Good news just keeps surfacing
http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1039/scottish-west-coast-untapped-oil-and-gas-reserves-worth-trillions/
@Castle Rock
I’ve new ever heard a British correspondent say “now over to our England correspondent” when speaking about England. Britain is England and England is Britain in their eyes.
They actually have north of England correspondents. To them Britain isn’t England, its a wee corner of the South East.
I love how the BBC exploits the huge population difference to give a biased debate in their independence articles.
The recent ones all have a comment section attached , where the overwhelming number of rUK voices dominate.
Check out the recent one for example – NO voices outweighing YES voices 10-1.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-29186106
For a balanced debate they should have 2 difference comment sections- one for the UK page, and one for their Scotland page.
And they claim not to be biased..
Boris
If they manage to tap into even half of that, Scotlands future
is looking very rosy indeed.
I am adding ‘elephant in the room’ to my list of boring, meaningless, hackneyed phrases:
The tipping point.
Ticking all the boxes.
Thinking out of the box.
And ‘wow’ as a lazy expression of surprise.
Isn’t there something rather dubious and seedy about all these powerful money men, who have sex with their wallets, all banging on (if you’ll pardon the expression) and trying to spread message “DOOM”
We never here about the great volatility of their mistress, the money markets…but we do here a lot about our Mother Oil’s shaky status and onset dementia
The Great Depression angle is just what the media need to stay clear of the sectarian racist fun fest.
Wonder what international media and tourists will make of it.
To my mind ‘the day of reckoning’ conveys the probable chance many people will boycott stores whose bosses use their position to intimidate a nation’s aspirations.
Why the hell should I buy from M&S if its boss thinks I am too stupid to run my own country, or indeed, he is too stupid to adapt his company to a new democracy?
For Unionists, north and south of the border.
Spain & Portugal would be Better Together- but they’re not.
France & Holland would be Better Together-but they’re not.
Germany & Belgium would be Better Together-but they’re not.
Italy and Austria would be Better Together-but they’re not.
Norway & Denmark would be Better Together- but they’re not.
Russia& Finland would be Better Together- but they’re not.
Why not ? Because they all prefer independence.
If England wants to be Better Together with another country
they should ask any European country?
But the answer will be in every case – No – we want to retain our independence.
Got it ?
Just seen that majority of French want britain to quit EU
The English have been conditioned over the decades to willingly accept that England is Britain, which means England and English government is the dominant force and the natural way of things.
Places like Scotland, Wales and Ireland are simply vassal add-ons which contribute to the greater wealth and prestige of England.
We’re regional Morris dancers with different costumes.
As OO march gets going, ConDem Carmichael’s vote NO camping in Orkney with
“Carmichael accuses SNP of using intimidation as ‘tactic of choice’
Same bloated trougherino ConDem elected on signed pledges completely reneged on, then takes Scottish Office Minister job he campaigned to have scrapped, now moans about intimidation. Probably what the lying grotesque calls hutspah.
If there’s bettertogether bullshit meter, its going off the scale in Orkney right the noo!
“David Folkerts-Landau, Chief Economist of Deutsche Bank, who has claimed that Scotland would have a “Great Depression” if independent, has a second home he bought for US $11.6 million dollars”
And his prescient powers didn’t extend to the colossal losses built up by the Deutche Bank in exposure to sub-prime mortgages. Nor did they extend to the Armageddon he promised Angela Merkel would face if they introduced a minimum wage. See the Channel 4 link, which is quite balanced on this.
http://blogs.channel4.com/paul-mason-blog/deutsches-wall-street-crash-prediction-ber-alles-airwaves/2347
These parasites, attempting to subvert democracy, are in for a shock.
Unusual phrasing when the article states;
“If Alex Salmond does succeed in leading HIS country…”
“His” country? Who´s writing this and what´s the mentality behind this phrasing?
I’ve just read some really, really bad news –
here it is:
A recent investigation was undertaken by oilandgaspeople.com, the world’s largest oil and gas industry jobs board, and independent North Sea oil and gas industry experts.
The investigation found that oil exploration, discoveries and production in the area are set to dramatically increase over the next ten years as continual improvements in drilling technology, rig design and seismic surveying makes the area more accessible.
This activity is supported by the Bank of Scotland’s recent report predicting the need for 37,000 new jobs over the next two years in support of the current Scottish oil boom.
As a result, the investigation found that the most recent round of DECC licensing for exploration has seen an increase in oil majors, such as BP, Chevron, Statoil, Total, and Shell, begin prospecting.
The investigation also found over the next 10 years upwards of one million barrels a day could be pumped from the Atlantic Margins if more than £1.5 billion is invested to extract it.
_________________________
I need to lie down – all this oil & gas
Scotland is going to be so poor
Deutsche Bank say there’s going to be a great depression if scotland votes Yes
Where’s ma Valium?
http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/1039/scottish-west-coast-untapped-oil-and-gas-reserves-worth-trillions/
Ps. Is this what ye’re after Mr Cameron? Too straight it is.
@James123
I guess I’ve had enough of being patronised and threatened.
We get a single “Scotland correspondent” to speak for the vast differences across these lands. The diversity in Scotland is as rich as any other independent nation in the world yet the same “Scotland correspondent” is expected to speak on behalf of the Western Isles up to Orkney and Shetland and down to the Borders.
Why can’t we be like any other independent nation and have reporters covering news and views from our different regions? All we get is a solitary “Scotland correspondent” reporting from a region of England.
You are right, England does have various correspondents reporting from the different parts of England and I look forward to the day when we are stopped being treated as part of England and we have our own news stations reporting accurately from the different regions of an independent Scotland.
Brown cracks north Korean joke
walofs
Christopher Chope MP on Radio 4 promising that Tory back benchers will block any new powers for Scotland if we vote No.
From about 14 minutes in
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04gn93k
Maybe 70% oppose Scots Indy but doesnt mean they would force us to stay. The media is stirring something that is not there. Alot of England would love the chance that we have to get rid of London. Let the polls ask that question in England. I believe the north of England would come with us if they could and they would be more than welcome.
“If 70% of English people voted against independence (or even in fact, if just 70% of the 56% who think they should have had a vote did), it would have vastly outweighed even 100% of Scots voting Yes.”
And that sums up what is wrong with this Union – Scotland has no voice.
@boris (johnston?) – and that is one reason they want to keep us. Just listened to Rock Radio – owned by sky, I think, and their news – Scotland could face a depression like in germany pre WW2 – I kid you not.
I have seen Brown on TV every F-ing day with a perfectly edited soundbite. Why does he get MSM coverage in a stage managed, politico filled room? Epitome of SNP / Salmond hating labour as he knows Alec will be remembered long after him and his woeful terms of office. Does he have his own F-ing press core, is that what failures get rewarded with now? PQ will be very busy on Sunday.
what makes a country what it is.
location, location, location.
i come from the se of england, i was born there.
i yearned for something else, i became a hunter of peace, a place to belong, where i felt @ home.
i went to ireland where my roots are, i love ireland, but it could not keep me.
i went to canada stayed with 1st nation squamish in vancouver, they asked me to stay.
tribal dances on grouse mountain, wonderful community spirit screamed, we want a life free from imperialism.
we reject it’s abuse, we reject what it has done to us, we want our lives back.
then i went to tofino, they asked me to stay, wonderful place cedar houses, built in the woods, seafood picnics on the pacific coast.
i made my excuses thanked them for their hospitality, but i wanted to go home.
i had never felt as free in my life as when i was in canada.
i love the damp, the moss, the wonderful light, the contrasts of colours, juxtaposed against the sky, the days of glorious sunshine, that one can pretend to be spanish for the day, some days i can be inuit, living in scotland, does all of that and much much more.
i love the music, the ceilidhs, the social language of scotland, the i want to be in your company, but leave me alone.
the acceptance of the others needs.
that i can walk down the street and know many people, but be ignored without question if i signal it.
i cannot explain why i feel scotland is my home, but i know it is, fight, the sword of truth will set you free.
i now know what it is by cause of writing this, it has made me realize what i have missed all of these years.
i imagined scotland being free from the shackles of WM, but dare not shout it out loud.
freedom cannot be spoken nor bottled it is a feeling.
now i can, go on free yourselves! you can do it!
i see politics as a means to an end, work to live, don’t live to work.
freedom come all ye, hamish henderson.
make it so.
well im very sorry people of England but this has got nothing to do with you,so why dont you all go back and watch your stupid TV and vote in numbers for a wee dug as Britian`s best talent or who should get kicked out a reality TV show ,can you believe they would actually vote more for a TV show than for who runs the UK ,but oh now Scotland wants to leave they all want a vote ,you had your chance you blew it, now we the people of Scotland will decide and if through doing so finally makes you sit up and notice you have been getting lied to then so be it ,wake the hell up England and do something about westminster this is why we will vote to end the union because it is the only way we can do something about the corrupt westminster and if it means leaving you up to your neck in debt then dont blame us Scots as we were not the ones who let this happen since we are only 5million where you are 55million so get a grip you muppets.
New signs in Yes shop and Yes stand.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vooaxrnhxya9629/Ja1.jpg?dl=0
Wearing a new badge as well.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/21obxlg1ag1ev8q/Ja2.jpg?dl=0
BBC going big with bank of Germany says its yes for great depression. More teamGB irony, full of time. Lord Prescott says get Scots and England in British football team to beat Germany, up pops super rich German for NO.
Haven’t watched the news and have not bought a single newspaper in months.
The totally negativity from both sources have put me off and in many cases have made me really angry.
For the BEEB to actually come out and say that they have been “un-biased and impartial” in the Referendum would be funny if it were not for the fact they are still telling absolute lies.
The BBC Charter must be ripped up and re-written to ensure that a state broadcaster never again has the power or is permitted to do anything like this ever again. ITV should be made to do exactly the same.
I heard a comment in passing yesterday afternoon in Dunfermline outside the Kingsgate Shopping Centre where the WBB and other YES goods were being handed out by YES activists.
I have no idea what happened before hand, but a gentleman had obviously taken exception to something that had been said. He said “It is comments like that, that are causing divisions”.
Sad really, that it is Scot against Scot. Is that what it has all come down to? People taking umbrage and offence?
I’m really hoping that come what may after the 18th September (A yes vote preferable), that all the people of Scotland despite their differing opinions, all come together and work for Scotland so that we can all look forward to an intelligent, confident, brighter, fairer and prosperous country that is ready to takes it’s rightful place in the world and a country that we can be mighty proud of.
The UK will never be the same and the powers that be know that.
The people of Scotland from all walks of life have risen and their voices have been heard and no matter what Westmister cannot just put her back in her box.
Apologies fore going O/T but thought folks would like a wee report about how things are in Gretna.
Better Thanks or whatever were also in Gretna today. One of our supporters had a look at their *ahem* stall and when asked by woman which way she was voting and she said she was voting YES … well let’s just say you probably heard Mrs NO Together up in Inverness!
We were accused by someone, I really think he was undecided but who can tell these days, of being a bunch of thugs.
When a woman was approached by one of our group to offer her some literature her comments were along the lines of “keep away, I don’t want that contagion any where near me. You are all contagious!” 😛
The best bit though did not concern our stall directly but our battle truck! As many folks know I am disabled with heart problems and have a blue disabled badge for our Jeep. Well where our stall was set up is next to a disabled parking bay, surprise surprise. We had the pleasure of this old guy with sticks walking past bitching and complaining about the battle truck being parked in the disabled bay. He did the same thing last week as well by the way. Some time later the police drive up and approach both disabled bays and after checking the other vehicle they are met by Mr “I’m complaining about a Jeep with a blue disabled badge parking in a disabled parking space.” As expected though the police put him in his place. During this time however his *ahem* friend from one of the shops came out and also had a go at the police about the battle truck. He too was also put in his place. Needless to say the police had a wee word with us and explained that we were, we already knew, perfectly entitled to park where we were and that they had explained this to the two *ahem* gentlemen. The upshot of all this activity is that the battle truck would now appear to be some sort of *cough* celebrity in Gretna. Apparently the battle truck was causing chaos in Gretna today. Hmm. Jeep with blue disabled badge lawfully parked in a disabled parking bay causes chaos … no I’m still trying to figure that one out folks! 😉
Oh by the way Mr complainer is a NO voter, as if you hadn’t gathered by now.
Overall though I’d say we had a fairly positive day overall, quite a few NOES abusive and not so but we still had more YESSERS in my opinion. 😀
@Castle Rock
Couldn’t agree more with you. In an independent Scotland we will have a proper Scottish national broadcaster where our news comes first not second, where we are treated not as a region but as a nation, and I won’t give two shits about the BBC.
Refusing to watch BBC and now find SKY is worse. Paper boy McGuire of the Mirror. Devo-max taken off the ballot but now devo-MAX is definitely back on. Lying toad.
If we do shake off these BBC liggers next week, the easy solution to horrifying BBC bias is to put two opposing views in charge, Reverend? So WoS and not future lord Gordon Brewer SBC DG’s?
I thoroughly believe that if we do get a Yes vote next week AS will not mince his words about the BBC and rest of the corrupt pro-Union media. He will expose them for what they are in front of the world’s media.
Here is a wee chart that shows the TRUTH and Better whatsit’s meaning of the TRUTH! 😛
https://www.facebook.com/Independence.Scotland.2014/photos/a.379262675500308.90768.379227262170516/693630730730166/?type=1&theater
Deutsche Bank said this would be compared to the great depression in 1930’s. There was no oil, whiskey or tobacco revenue. It was Churchill who aligned the pound with gold standard back then and that caused it, he was a Conservative. So Mr Deutsche banker please “compare the market” like for for like. Simples! It was the banks to blame for the most recent recession not the people.
Sorry, not very interweb savvy, dunno if this is appropriate, off topic, blah blah.
Just spent an enormously enjoyable couple of hours contacting every business entity I deal with – bank, building society, supermarket etc – re the freedom vote.
RBS, Asda, Tesco.
I kept it measured and sensible, don’t worry.
we have our investments with Hargreaves Landsdowne, who did some seriously good debunking of the propaganda this am. Told them we will give them our investments with other providers if they keep it up.
There are good guys out there.
Anyone wondered what the definition of “not the truth” was? 😉
https://www.facebook.com/Independence.Scotland.2014/photos/a.379262675500308.90768.379227262170516/693617727398133/?type=1&theater
Live from Wales.
Just notice EBC have photograph of some sheep and a nice orange “YES” sign in the field with them. Now, I may be judging harshly, but is their subtlety slipping?
Could someone post a link to how you can legally stop paying your tv licence as i know a few forums who are thinking of a mass boycott after the vote yes or no (and i know it will catch on in social media even those who voted no)
Think a petition is being orginised as we speak
someone posted the links already but there are a lot of posts on this site
That German bank.
The conclusion of this story has not changed one bit from last year: this epic derivative exposure is the primary reason why Germany, theatrically kicking and screaming for the past five years, has done everything in its power, even “yielding” to the ECB, to make sure there is no domino-like collapse of European banks, which would most certainly precipitate just the kind of collateral chain breakage and net-to-gross conversion that is what causes Anshu Jain, and every other bank CEO, to wake up drenched in sweat every night.
Those folk considering a NO vote must be proud of their campaign. My wife likened it to that old Domestic Abuse poster with ‘Love and Hate’ tattooed on a thugs knuckles with the question, “Which will it be tonight?”
The similarity with the NO campaign is painfully obvious as it migrates from Project Fear to Project Terror.
The insane statement by Deutsche Bank is aggravated by their memory of the 1930’s. However the BBC is running the banner with this lunacy for hours now,
To borrow a phrase from these times,but this time from a democratic country “You have nothing to fear but fear itself”
BBC you are an affront to democracy !
You can hardly make this stuff up, but the Rev. Stu just has.
Readers of the Treaty of Lisbon, to which Scotland must become a signatory on joining the EU, will note that from 1st November 2014 a member state can only leave the EU with the consent of a qualified majority vote of the other member states.
Apparently it is a reprehensible outrage for the English to merely wish they had a say in the future of a Union in which they are an equal partner.
But it is just fine for Scotland to commit to a union where it has no prospect of escape at all!
Bluedog. They are NOT an equal partner. They outnumber us and their votes count for more in a General Election.
Twitter reports of Rupert Murdoch in Aberdeen – going to declare his support? I’m no fan of the man, but it is a huge event if so.
Oh, and it seems Westminster et al in the “establishment are currently doing their damnest to usurp democracy and keep us in a Union straight jacket, bound and gagged. So just Fuck off you idiot.
@Minty
Twitter reports of Rupert Murdoch in Aberdeen – going to declare his support? I’m no fan of the man, but it is a huge event if so.
I really hope not! We can’t condemn the bias of the media then embrace Murdoch!
Cracker of a post about Deutsche Bank, cynical highlander. I knew that the bank was involved in the Libor fraud and speculation in food prices but I did not realise that their derivatives exposure was so high. Talk about a zombie bank.
I just cancelled my BBC TV in Canada.
For those bemused by the Deutsche Bank:
The Flaky Character of Deutsche Bank – grousebeater.wordpress
@ Caledonia at 2.01
YouTube tells you exactly how to stop paying your licence fee-legally-and how to deal with anyone who comes to your door about it .
I did it a couple of months ago and got a nice wee refund .
As long as you don’t watch live streaming TV you don’t need a licence.
Sorry I don’t know how to do links but it’s easy to find.
Survation poll out. Yes dips. 45% yes 54% no Says sky.
Nothing out yet on Scot goes pop.
Sorry 46% yes!
SATURDAY, SEPTEMBER 13, 2014
Yes secure second-highest ever showing in a telephone poll – and it was commissioned by the No campaign
New Survation telephone poll commissioned by the No campaign –
Yes 46%
No 54%
That’s by quite some distance the second-highest ever Yes vote in a telephone poll, only beaten by yesterday’s ICM poll.
I’ve been trying to get this through to many DM (England) commenters for ages now. It’s an uphill struggle, I can tell you. If England votes yes but Scotland votes no how do you expell a country from the Union against its will…with the world watching on. How is that democracy?
Also, surely England can only have a referendum to vote themselves out of the Union and not another country? Democracy, NATO, the UN, all are in place to stop larger countries imposing their will on smaller ones.
Just wanted to tell the WoS family that our boys in blue were telling the tourist shops on the royal mile to take down saltires and lion rampants before the jist eat yir cereal march, Scotland eh?! Whaes like us?
I’m minded of this extract from “Scots Wha Hae”;
By oppression’s woes and pains!
By your sons (and daughters) in servile chains!
Says it all.
Auld Rock
WeeMike says:
13 September, 2014 at 12:02 pm
“Right there, in just two sentences, the spirit of the Union: English people think they should have been allowed to force the Scots to remain in the UK against their will.”
People weren’t polled on the question of ‘Do you think Scotland should be forced to stay in the UK?’, they were polled on ‘Do you think you should have had a vote/say’. I very much doubt they took into account by how much they outnumber us when answering the question. I imagine it’s the point that’s come up time and time again:
“This referendum affects 55 million of us and we don’t get a say”
This is petty, petty stuff
Any chance Stu, or indeed anyone else, could address the above point? I realise this is a partisan site, but to twist and distort this much (whilst at the same time moaning about the supposed bias of the BBC) is pretty incredible.
“bluedog says:
13 September, 2014 at 2:24 pm
You can hardly make this stuff up, but the Rev. Stu just has.
Readers of the Treaty of Lisbon, to which Scotland must become a signatory on joining the EU, will note that from 1st November 2014 a member state can only leave the EU with the consent of a qualified majority vote of the other member states.
Apparently it is a reprehensible outrage for the English to merely wish they had a say in the future of a Union in which they are an equal partner.
But it is just fine for Scotland to commit to a union where it has no prospect of escape at all!”
This is also a very good point
“It is also important to remember this is an advisory referendum. So, a ‘yes’ vote wouldn’t mean Scotland has to become independent immediately”.
this Is The next threat.
@Robert Llewellyn Tyler
I can believe it. We lived in London in the ’90s. On Monday evenings while the sprogs were at St Johns the wife and I would go to a nice quiet local pub. Then the RWC came and Monday after Jonah Lomu ran over Mike Catt we wore our All Black jerseys and the previously very friendly barman seriously threatened to bar us. I think he only relented because we were often the only people in his pub then.
Post independence if Westminster indulges in any bastardly behaviour towards Scotland Alex need only pick up the phone call Putin and suggest a friendship pact between Scotland and Russia a good idea. Russia would give anything for access to Scottish waters and ports not to mention the strategic advantage over rUK and America it would provide. Perhaps a goodwill visit from a couple of their naval vessels would be appropriate to cement the relationship one to Leith, one to the Clyde. Beautiful
With Russia’s power, wealth, and support Scotland would also benefit from access to the Russian market. We could possibly offer them some old sub’s we have lying around in gratitude for their assistance.
How many of the 56% think that, if the UK holds a referendum on EU, everyone in the EU should be able to vote?
@James Dow
Russia has more than enough scrapped subs rotting in harbour or abandoned or sunk at sea.
@John Walsh
Referenda in the UK are usually advisory, but my understanding was that the Edinburgh Agreement specifically changed that for this referendum only. I will have to reread it, but that was the very reason for the EA.
James Dow A voice from the diaspora says:
13 September, 2014 at 3:42 pm
Post independence if Westminster indulges in any bastardly behaviour towards Scotland Alex need only pick up the phone call Putin and suggest a friendship pact between Scotland and Russia a good idea. Russia would give anything for access to Scottish waters and ports not to mention the strategic advantage over rUK and America it would provide. Perhaps a goodwill visit from a couple of their naval vessels would be appropriate to cement the relationship one to Leith, one to the Clyde. Beautiful
With Russia’s power, wealth, and support Scotland would also benefit from access to the Russian market. We could possibly offer them some old sub’s we have lying around in gratitude for their assistance.
Yep, that’s totally realistic. Cutting yourself off from all our nearest trading blocs can only end well for us!
James I rather suspect you’ve hit the nail on the head regarding Westminster’s fears about our imminent vote for Independence. They cannot control who our ‘friends’ will be anymore and this terrifies them, ergo all the fascist, communist diatribe issuing from the propaganda machine (telly). This is why it is vitally important that we keep the heid till Thursday. We must not take the bait, they are terrifying the part of the population that have already succumbed to those xenophobic, outdated and hateful narratives, propagated by the daily rags and a lifetime of conditioning via the news channels.
In other words they are terrifying the No voters. Bit of blatant S&M on show in this regard, beat them into maintaining submission, ergo…the contagion comments et al. The No voters have no ‘safe’ word to make it stop.
The safe word…paradoxically is Yes. Yes is the only thing that makes all of this stop. We will make it stop for them, on Thursday.
@John Walsh
Further to reading the EA it is not clear that the referendum result is anything other than advisory as you suggest. the key clause is clause 3 which refers to the referendum being run under PPERA rules. I haven’t looked at them, but assume they refer to the advisory status of referendums.
I do note in passing that Clause 21 appears to have been broken which refers to the impartiality of the media. Specifically it placed an onus on the Broadcasters, Ofcom and the Electoral Commission to ensure that this was achieved.
With regards to the latter point, I am disappointed that nothing appears to have been done when the research by Professor Robertson. West of Scotland University, clearly demonstrated the bias in the broadcast media. The last few days/weeks has been this even more obviously demonstrated. I hope he has been keeping record again, as after the vote he will have a massive book to publish. I can propose two titles:
“How the Broadcast Media fixed the referendum” (if NO)
“How the Broadcast media failed to fix the referendum, despite their best efforts” (if YES)
Hello supermarket bosses thanks for telling us that our products could be more expensive thats the first time you wont be claiming to be cheaper that asda or tesco and slyly put a stealth price on produce without us noticing. So maybe its a case for people to get wiser and shop around before a plague of locust descend upon us and maybe tell you to BOGOF.
James I rather suspect you’ve hit the nail on the head regarding Westminster’s fears about our imminent vote for Independence. They cannot control who our ‘friends’ will be anymore and this terrifies them, ergo all the fascist, communist diatribe issuing from the propaganda machine (telly). This is why it is vitally important that we keep the heid till Thursday. We must not take the bait, they are terrifying the part of the population that have already succumbed to those xenophobic, outdated and hateful narratives, propagated by the daily rags and a lifetime of conditioning via the news channels.
In other words they are terrifying the No voters. Bit of blatant S&M on show in this regard, beat them into maintaining submission, ergo…the contagion comments et al. The No voters have no ‘safe’ word to make it stop.
The safe word…paradoxically is Yes. Yes is the only thing that makes all of this stop. We will make it stop for them, on Thursday.
Keep hearing how nasty Nationalism is. Last night of the Proms to-night! Sea of Union flags and roars of Rule Britania, Land of Hope. but I suppose that is OK.
Interesting that 70% of them want us to stay. Surely if Scots are subsidised by English taxpayers they would want us to go? I’m confused.
It is, hopefully, a different subject but what if we say YES and ‘they’ say No, opting to ignore the result.
A scary week ahead.
A scary week ahead
I know, brilliant isn’t it to see our country waking from her slumber 🙂
@ Bluedog @ WeeMike
Read Article 50 – para 3
http://www.lisbon-treaty.org/wcm/the-lisbon-treaty/treaty-on-European-union-and-comments/title-6-final-provisions/137-article-50.html
The country asking to leave would only have to wait 2 years after notifying the EU of their intentions, even if agreement was not reached.
Was at the Wales for yes rally at the Senedd this afternoon, I’m sure photos are already posted. From another part of the uk all that was sent was good wishes and a huge amount of hope that we would vote yes. The tears were never far from my eyes at the genuine goodwill
O/T without a doubt. On 9 September I asked Scottish Conservative HQ when and where David Cameron would be available to meet general members of the public so that they might ask him questions when he was around in Scotland on the 10th… well,nothing like playing the daft laddie now and again. No reply until the 11th, “Please accept our apologies for the delay in response. The Prime Minister’s visit was organised by his office at No 10.”
Bad news Ruthy baby; the tap heid bummer disnae trust the branch office. Yer coat’s on a shoogly peg.
Dennis Nicholson
I think you read it wrong. In any three way choice polled the three options come out very closely together with Indy and “Devo Max” very close but ahead of the status quo. I have little doubt that campaign that would have been mounted would have pushed independence into the lead against a confused opposition while the devo max option would have taken votes off the status quo option
Gerry Anderson at 12.06
Cheers,Gerry. We had TWO street stalls in Dunoon today to wave off our Argyll wide car cavalcade which went through Inveraray apparently about 80 strong enroute to meeting others from Kintyre and other places at Lochgilphead.
PS I wish I had taken your offer on the WBBs. We’ve gone through the five boxes I kept out of the seven boxes (two sent to Bute).
It’s a wonder your daughter (hi) could get into our wee YES shop today it was so crowded
@A.N.Surgent says: 13 September, 2014 at 12:42 pm:
“Wonder what international media and tourists will make of it.”
Talking of which, anyone else notice the spontaneous applause and cheering when Salmond was filleting Robinson. Even if it wasn’t actually the international media folks that were doing it, they could hardly miss the feelings of those who were. It was quite obvious that the audience were quite anti-Robinson and thus the BBC, his master.
Watch it again here on YouTube : –
//youtu.be/Ug5q0jfRz68
@Midgehunter says: 13 September, 2014 at 12:46 pm:
“The English have been conditioned over the decades to willingly accept that England is Britain, which means England and English government is the dominant force and the natural way of things.”
Thing is, Midgehunter, Westminster has actually made it so. In 1706/7, “The Treaty of Union”, was signed by the only two Kingdoms in the British archipelago. That bipartite treaty did three main things and it is comprised of, “Articles of Union”, and each Article of union is a stand alone agreement.
Article I joins together the only two kingdoms of Britain. That is the two Royal Realms and the English one, in 1706/7 contained three countries. The result was a single monarch and a single Kingdom called the United Kingdom. It makes no mention of countries.
Article II concerns only the succession to the new United Kingdom and the access to it, (including excluding Roman Catholics).
Article III then, (and only then), agrees a totally new, “Parliament of the United Kingdom”, to govern the new United Kingdom.
Note that the thing described as, “The United Kingdom”, refers ONLY to the joint Royal Realm. Westminster is not a continuation of either former parliament and it is not the United Kingdom.
However, what thus began as a treaty between two equally sovereign Kingdom that contained, between them, four countries, has been changed by that Parliament at Westminster into a de facto Parliament of, THE COUNTRY, of England after it split the bipartite United Kingdom along the lines of countries rather than by kingdoms.
We now have in effect, a ruling parliament of the country of England that is claiming sovereignty over the other three countries and that Westminster Parliament is devolving the powers of the country of England to the other three countries. So just when did the people of the United Kingdom vote to put England in charge as the rulers of the other three countries?
As far as I’m aware, Deutsche Bank is as German as the RBS is Scottish, i.e. not at all. It’s just another of the City of London casino banks. Someone above referred to it as the Bank of Germany, i.e. the central bank. That’s the Bundesbank, which would certainly not seek to interfere in the affairs of another country.
@Franariod says: 13 September, 2014 at 1:10 pm:
“Alot of England would love the chance that we have to get rid of London. Let the polls ask that question in England. I believe the north of England would come with us if they could and they would be more than welcome”.
Aye! Richt! Franariod.
Well here’s a wee something you quite obviously do not know. Only one region of England has ever been polled as to whether they would like, (at the time(2004)), to have a devolved assembly like Scotland. That English Region was The North East of England and, guess what, they overwhelmingly refused it.
See here : -http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/3984991.stm
@Lesley-Anne says: 13 September, 2014 at 1:38 pm:
“Oh by the way Mr complainer is a NO voter, as if you hadn’t gathered by now.”
Got something of the same, Lesley-Anne. My wagon is a VW based Campervan and I have a large Saltire on a flagpole on the back – Tannoy on the roof, various small saltires flying from the windows and large and small stickers on both sides. I’ve been deiving around and stopping at places to shop or whatever.
Usually when I return to the vehicle there will be one or more people waiting for me and impromptu meetings start up. I too am disabled and I too have had complaints. Thing is, in most cases there are plenty of empty parking spasces and I wouldn’t dream of staying in a disabled bay if there were no other spare ones. So these Naysayers are complaining and there has never been any time when there was not at least one empty disabled bay. I too noted some Naysayers were inclined to be childish and petty.
Don’t feed the troll.
I was born in England but have lived in Scotland for almost a decade now – my little boy was born here. I’m voting Yes because given the facts and history, my conscience will not permit me to do otherwise. I’m sorry that some of my fellow English people don’t have similar feelings when to me, it’s elementary to see that independence is the only reasonable way for this unique and beautiful country to move forward in the future.
Given all the English misreporting of Scottish people as “subsidy scroungers”, you’d think that Westminster would be itching to be rid of us, wouldn’t you….?
I know this might seem a strange thing to say, but I can kind of understand this. The English have been subjected to centuries of propaganda designed to embed assumptions and an arrogance about their own place in the world. Their media has not reported our deep and profound debate fairly or accurately. Suddenly PMQs is cancelled and they’re hoisting Saltires across England generating bewliderment, panic, denial, confusion, anger. What else can we expect?
The Yes vote will be the decisive and massaive leap on the road to liberate Scotland, but I truly hope and believe it will in time come to liberate England, Wales and maybe even Northern Ireland too. We’ve all lived this lie too long.
Robert Peffers
The clapping and cheering at the press conference was an embarrassment to scotland. Imagine if you were watching Obama speak to the international press and there was whooping and clapping going on. We would all call it for stage managed and cringy. The antics at EICC would have look awful internationally, Salmond was clearly playing to the home audience.
@Dr Ew says: 13 September, 2014 at 11:05 pm:
“I know this might seem a strange thing to say, but I can kind of understand this. The English have been subjected to centuries of propaganda designed to embed assumptions and an arrogance about their own place in the world.”
Never forget that in 1688 the independent Parliament of England deposed the English Monarch who was also the independent monarch of Scots. They then imported King Billy and Mary as joint monarchs and removed the royal veto over parliament from them.
Thus began what the English still teach as the Jacobite Rebellion but as you cannot rebel against a monarch who is not your own and Scotland, in 1688 were still an independent country the English were assuming they had sovereignty over Scotland even thern for there was no United Kingdom until 1707 and the Jacobite uprisings did not end until 1745.
http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/12/opinion/wheeler-scotland-referendum/index.html
Anybody seen this rubbish !
I use this argument any time someone complains about them not getting a vote, and all they can say is “but it affects my country.” Well, so does whoever gets elected as the US president, but we don’t get a say over that, do we?
It’s basically the husband demanding to decide whether his wife should be allowed to divorce him or not.
@Gfaetheblock says: 13 September, 2014 at 11:14 pm:
“The clapping and cheering at the press conference was an embarrassment to scotland.”
What utter balderdash!
It was an INTERNATIONAL PRESS CONFERENCE, for the love of Pete! The audience doing the clapping & cheering WERE THE INTERNATIONAL PRESS. That was also why the guy, (Robinson), asking the idiotic question WAS ALSO IN THE AUDIENCE.
He got himself made an arse of and exposed as a fool. Then the BBC edited out the long and detailed answer the FM did give him. They then broadcast the edited version as a news item claiming he had NOT had an answer.
It was the other members of the International Press Corp that were clapping & cheering the fool being exposed for what he was.
I’m amazed at how many people are believing that Brown’s “extra powers” are true and WILL be implemented should they vote No.
It’s frightening how many “too stupid’s” there are.
How would they like it if every other EU country had a say in the decision about whether the (r)UK leaves the EU?
Cynical Highlander. Russia may well have a lot off old subs laying around. But none made in BRITAIN touché.
Wee Mike. Does that refer to your stature or your intellectual capacity. touché again, I’m on a roll.
Business is business everywhere, it’s about the money Mike, do you really think business will commit commercial suicide over someone else’s principle, a commodity that appears to be in very short supply. Especially in YOUR GREAT BRITAIN. I await your reply. Or perhaps wee mike refers to another SHORT coming you have.
s
@Aspen
“Keep hearing how nasty Nationalism is. Last night of the Proms to-night! Sea of Union flags and roars of Rule Britania, Land of Hope. but I suppose that is OK.”
Of course it is. “That’s different”. haha!
Here’s another thing, Given that the voting turnout is usually so low, isn’t it astonishing that when people were asked “do you think you should have had a say”, up popped thousands upon thousands upon THOUSANDS of heads demanding to be heard. If only that instant and seemingly outraged engagement could be transferred to polling booths.
On an anecdotal level I’m really struggling to believe that piece (I know anecdotes, a load of shite and completely skewed by who you know). Currently living in England and the only opinion I’ve ever heard about voting is that some are occasionally surprised that as a Scot living in England I don’t get a say. Beyond that the general trend is “it would be a shame if it happened but it’s Scotland’s choice.”
Genuinely not sure where all these “force Scotland to stay” voices are coming from. Either that or people are very good at hiding anti-democratic tendencies!
Manandboy
“If England wants to be Better Together with another country
they should ask any European country?”
‘England /Britain’ is perfectly happy being ‘Better Together’ with its best mate, the vile, repugnant psychopathic state of israhell, along with Pit Bull ‘Drone Daddy’ US of @rseholes, who finances its war crimes against a brutally occupied people.
Now who would want to be in a ‘union’ with an adoring supporter of that??
My small contribution.
http://t.co/RPBRF9klFG
“If the No campaign should lose the referendum, the Conservative Party has the knives out for its leader. That’s how serious the London government is taking the potential loss of Scotland.”
Reason enough to vote YES! A free Scotland & goodbye Cameron; just the start.
http://dissidentvoice.org/2014/09/scotland-vote-yes-for-world-peace/
The Queen’s stuck her neb in now; (6 pm news, Radio Four) advising her loyal subjects to “think very carefully before casting their vote”. If that isn’t a direct reference against a YES’ vote, I don’t know what is. Absolutely disgraceful.
Don’t agree.I think she was encouraging people to vote yes.She is not stupid and knows the effect that right wing parties are having on the poor and vulnerable.
Scotland should have the vote, but if they choose to vote no, then there should be a vote for the rest of the UK as to whether it would like to part with Scotland.
For those puzzled as to why English; Welsh; Cornish, Yorkshire etc people feel like they might also deserve some say in the future of their own country – the United Kingdom.
Perhaps California would be better off outside the US.
Should California leave the United States; if just over half the people in the State voted for that?
The United States is just a Union of States right?
Should such a massive change ever be allowed on a simple majority vote at all?
These things do puzzle a lot of people outside of Scotland.
Owen:
I agree! But only under the same media conditions under which Scottish independence has been subjected to. Then Scotland WILL get her independence – courtesy of the very people who are ripping her off!