Identity parade
During last month’s independence march and rally in Edinburgh we were outdoors, marching and rallying. (Duh.) So we obviously didn’t catch the teatime news, and when we got home we were intrigued to hear tales of some strange goings-on on BBC Scotland’s six o’clock TV bulletin.
The footage didn’t reappear on any later shows, so for several days we scoured the iPlayer, which had archived just about every news programme broadcast anywhere in Britain except that one. It never did show up, and it’s only thanks to the hard work of an alert reader that we’ve finally been able to get hold of it.
It’s well worth a view.
The bizarre part starts 54 seconds in, when the BBC leaves Calton Hill and moves to an unspecified location in “another part of the capital”. In an otherwise completely deserted street, four people in the space of nine seconds march very briskly and directly towards a “Better Together” activist and take leaflets from him.
(Someone else just out of shot appears to be blocking the way and guiding them towards the leafleter, but nobody chooses to go round the other side.)
These members of the public conveniently make up a box-ticking demographic mix of two men, two women, various ages and ethnic minority representation. Nobody else is visible for 200-300 yards down the street, with everyone in the vicinity who’s alive and awake apparently concentrated in a few feet of pavement.
Anyone who’s ever done any leafleting in the street for any cause or purpose will be marvelling at this level of public engagement. (We were out a couple of weeks ago in a nearby town where a gang of Mars representatives were handing out free full-size bars of Galaxy chocolate and they still couldn’t get 100% of any group of people to come near them.) It was an impressive performance.
But on watching it several times we can’t shake the feeling that a performance is exactly what it was – a setup faked for the cameras, in which the state broadcaster must have colluded. The interview with a Labour MP afterwards sees the street continue to be totally empty of anyone but activists, bar one woman leaving a paper shop who seems oddly less keen to meet and greet our happy band of No campers.
(In fact, we see more “Better Together” activists than ordinary citizens of Edinburgh. There were at least seven No campaigners there, not including Ms Gilmore.)
So just to lay our doubtless-unwarranted cynicism to rest, we thought we’d double-check and see if any of you recognised any of these random members of the public. It’s not overly paranoid – “Better Together” has something of a history of presenting political activists as ordinary people when it’s making propaganda.
“Stephen from Edinburgh” on those links is in fact Stephen Donnelly, chair of Scottish Labour Students and a keen No activist, a fact BT never quite gets round to identifying.
(Which is a bit ironic given the big hypocritical fuss they make about other people allegedly pretending to be something they’re not, but that’s another matter.)
So do let us know if any of these faces rings a similar bell, just so we can definitively eliminate once and for all any thoughts that the BBC might have been collaborating with the No camp in faking and broadcasting misleading stunt footage.
Because that wouldn’t be acceptable, would it?
I wish I had not stopped paying my TV Licence so I could stop again!!!!!!
What a total disgrace, surely the bbc can’t get away with this if it turns out to be true and it looks like it is, thankfully I don’t have a live tv connection so no license fee, blood not quite at boiling point but very close.
Stop paying your TV license people, it’s the only way to hit this evil corrupt bias Uk government propaganda stinking mouthpiece, this is a foreign broadcaster trying to brainwash our people, time it was dumped!
But on a lighter note, the Raleigh was fabulous!
Y’know, from a certain angle that could be Brian Taylor handing out leaflets in the first three pics..
Right finally on topic with this.
Should there be a de3monstration at the Scottish baftas to highlight media bias???
All the high heid yins will be there.
Before the blether starts any opinions please.
And no, unfortunately I don’t recognise any of them, but it looks very (VERY) like it IS staged.
Is someone compiling a dossier of such incidents and passing on to the BBC Trust for their consultation on the referendum consultation.
8000 my arse, i was there and the hill was packed
Who walks doon the street like that? Feckin bizarre body language.
Even my daughter said it looked staged!
lol, staged much? 😀
Looks fishier than the contents of Baldrick’s apple crumble… 😀
Love the way they’re all in a perfectly straight line in the 3rd bottom pic like a processing plant. “Ok – walk along, stick your hand out, take a leaflet…” 🙂
It’s weird, it is like they are all ‘pod people’ or something, programmed to act in a certain way, they’re even walking exactly the same distance apart and at the same speed down the street and in line with each other! It’s a route march while trying to remember their orders me thinks. One hastily put together shot for the cameras and no time for a reshoot. But the other part is telling where they seem to be canvassing on an empty street, either that or people are walking across the road avoiding them 🙂
It feels strange and fake when you watch it.
I’ve been spitting carpet tacks about this since I first heard about it. A guy at work who couldn’t make it to the march said he saw it on TV and it was obviously a set-up. He thought it was at the bottom of the Canongate near the back of the parliament, but I don’t know that’s right, from these views. Can anyone pinpoint it on Google Maps?
No doubt it was all set up by Better Together. However the BBC had to be complicit in the exercise. And it chose to spend air time on this while the rally was going on, and didn’t send a camera up Calton Hill at all.
Wow, oh wow, this is real evidence of collusion between Better Together and BBC Scotland.
This is something that should be reported to the BBC Trust, pronto.
it looks as staged as the scottish affairs commitees questions.
When a news organisation creates news to fit it’s own agenda it’s surely no longer fit for purpose.
Is there not a law against this ?
OK, I was wrong, from the evidence on the clip, they did have a camera on the hill. Looks as if it was a smallish, hand-held thing though. The big things on wheels behind the barrier beside the stage were from Russia Today and places like that.
The BBC supporting BT and trying to dupe everyone? Surely not!
would be awesome if one or more of the people taking leaflets were to see this and get in touch to let everyone know what exactly went on. the chap with the black t-shirt is wearing a name badge.
Well, the challenge from Stu is obviously to see if we can identify these “passers-by” as known BT activists. I have no idea how to go about this, but I have every faith in the power of the internet.
Scotmid on Kingsknowe Road North.
http://goo.gl/maps/G84Bf
First pic gave it away as outside a Scotmid.
Scottish_skier says:
29 October, 2013 at 2:04 pm
Scotmid on Kingsknowe Road North.
http://goo.gl/maps/G84Bf
First pic gave it away as outside a Scotmid.
That means the Co-op was involved as well. Who knew?
@scottish_skier
I was trying to work it out as you can see the Pentlands at the end of the road (thought it might be Westerhailes somewhere, though Longstone’s next door). Handy for Saughton Prison mind…
Scotmid on Kingsknowe Road North.
http://goo.gl/maps/G84Bf
Wow, that was quick. Nowhere near where Calum thought it was, though. Although, I suppose it was only on for about 28 seconds. I wonder why they picked that spot. It’s pretty suburban and generally lacking in any obvious interest.
About time we had a march and rally to BBC Scotland headquarters to let them know what we think of their shenanigans. This is actually worse than the phone tapping that media people are in the dock for as I write.
Why worry, honestly. They show thousands on the Hill and cross over to a shambolic display by NO. Its like a party where no-one came and does them no good.
Ask yourself this, name one instance where the NO Campaign have managed a “Hey, look at THIS turnout!!” .. Its never happened and never will. Heaven help them by the time the next Rally comes along. Edinburgh could be at a standstill.
The store is the Scotmid at Kingsknowe Road North.
By the way, is that Bobcat Goldthwaite in the red hoodie and bandana?
Overall quite a pathetic video and the BBC is clearly disgracefully involved in this setup. What will they not do to retain power?
I was interviewed and filmed by Joanne MacAulay and her cameraman on Calton Hill. Clearly others must have been too. They didn’t identify themselves as ‘BBC’.
I never did see any of the footage. I wonder why?
If this can be proved to be a set up, then er who will cover the story. Dont bother with the complaints procedure as they will bury it for two years. Police Scotland reported to the hootsmon that the attendance was estimated 20-30K!!
Why show BT handing out leaflets at the same time as the rally anyway?
This is what we’re up against.
We HAVE to win.
My guess is that BT wil have brought these folk up from ‘doon sooth’ so that they couldn’t be identified.
The footage didn’t reappear on any later shows, so for several days we scoured the iPlayer, which had archived just about every news programme broadcast anywhere in Britain except that one. It never did show up, ….
That is about as damning as anything, too.
People started talking about it almost as soon as it had been broadcast. I knew about it early on from seeing it mentioned either on Twitter or on comments on this blog, posted by people who weren’t at the rally. Maybe that was when they realised how very very obviously staged it was.
So they didn’t re-broadcast it, and it never appeared on iPlayer. That’s a conscious decision. (Last night I needed a better screen capture from a Newsnight edition broadcast in January 2010, and was able to find it on iPlayer and get what I wanted.) They went too far, and they realised it, and tried to bury the mistake.
muttley79
Next you will be asking questions like why is Blair McDougall asked to comment on the SNP conference 🙂
Gotcha! Pinned down location. Outside Scotmid 7 Kingsknowe Road North. EH14 2BN.
Local residents by any chance? 😉
I WOULDN`T TRUST THE BBC WITH ANY COMPLAINT.THERE MUST SURELY BE SOME INTERNATIONAL ORGANISATION THAT CAN BE APPROACHED TO INVESTIGATE THIS OUTRAGE BY THE STATE BROADCASTER. ANYONE GOT ANY IDEA`S?
scottish_skier
Bravo: Looks spot on and no mistake Sherlock !
On the involvement of the BBC, this is very serious if true and heads could, and should, roll. It is obvious to any fair minded observer that it is staged.
Hope that some of these folk can be traced and the true can found.
PS:
I see Mr Bateman is giving Lamont a very hard time on his new blog.
🙂
Just looking through the BBC Charter at the moment about the “conflicts of interest” paragraph.
“All BBC staff are required formally to declare any personal interest which may affect their work with the BBC. Freelance presenters, reporters, producers and researchers and most other freelances will also be required to declare personal interests which may affect their work with the BBC.”
BBC Scotland staff seem to have a separate Charter from the rest of the UK BBC.
I Presume they are working from the Scottish Labour Party Charter.
BBC Scotland, your Jaikit’s really ur oan shakey nails!!
The guy in red spoke with a foreign accent, perhaps Polish?
It looks so faked but happens so quickly that most people would just get the message that the Yes were preaching to the converted while No were handing out leaflets to ordinary members of the public.
BBC Bias at it’s worse, but I’m afraid it’s now the kind of behaviour we have come to expect from them.
“Kingsknowe Road North.”
Bizarre. That’s a long way out the centre, in the arse end of nowhere, as Edinburgh goes, particularly in terms of significance. A long way from the parade, and certainly not within easy reach for BBC cameras.
Nice of wee Stephen to have Better Together wallpaper!
Its obviously staged by the BBC and Labour because the alleged “members of the public” appear and come towards the camera quickly at the same speed and in a line from what appears to be the start of a queue!
Normal “members of the public” just simply don’t behave like that when they are going about their ordinary business.
In the real world they would have been coming from different directions at different speeds and different intervals and some would have declined and some would have also stopped to find out what the leaflets were about.
If those alleged “members of the public” taking part can be identified as being Labour activists then it should mean big trouble for the BBC and Labour.
BT have organised leaflet campaigns outside Co-op shops before, but I believe they get permission beforehand. This is the event in question.
http://www.bettertogether.net/page/event/detail/1yeartogoactivity/wgl
@Scottish_Skier
Aye, just beside the jail. In fact the main shop near the jail where anyone getting out will go to pick up a packet of fags upon release! Maybe Better Together are targeting the “no had any internet for a while” market.
That’s a bizarre place to be placing resources for what it’s worth. And you have 5 volunteers there? The proverbial one man and his dug could happily cope with the non masses of footfall you’ll be getting there to hand out leaflets.
I stay just off Leith Walk and have yet to see any presence from Better Together anywhere near me. There’s a semi regular presence in the Kirkgate from Yes folk on Saturdays. I would have thought if they can get 5 volunteers it might be an idea to put them where people might actually be…
Three people happen to pass by in perfect synchrony in a deserted street? Mmmmm! The member of the public in the middle of the row of passers-by appears to have forgotten to remove his BT tag!
Poor BBC reporter (Ms. McAulay I think); she looks so pissed off at either having to march up Calton Hill on a cold windy day or was pissed off when she came across such a large pro independence crowd.
And the leafleting segment was clearly staged.
Consequently, BBC Scotland may now be up for a Broadcasting Propaganda of the Year Award to be presented in Pyongyang in January.
This is absolute dynamite, no wonder they removed it from their iplayer (or never put it up there to begin with). Its blatantly an ill-thought through, last minute stunt to try and reduce the significance of the pro-indy march and its impact on Scots viewers at primetime. I can see how folk could watch it once and not realise whats going on, the BBC have known this and so made a decision to just broadcast it once. They HAD to be complicit in this, and if those “passers-by” can be proved to be BT staff then the BBC MUST be held to account, i would forward this onto every news channel, esp STV, its time to bring the BBC down..it is bordering on utter criminality now.
From my (drunken) time at uni creating these same types of news packages for assessments, and being led by a course leader who worked at BBC Scotland for many years, of course that part of the package has been set up in a way. They’ll have needed “the balance” after the rally footage so a reporter and cameraman will have been tasked with contacting Better Together to meet up to get footage. When there, the aim is to show something actually happening on screen.
One of the obvious and easiest ways is to just show people taking a leaflet, which is what they went with. If I was involved, I can imagine just talking to *anybody* nearby and pleading with all my might to just take a bloody leaflet so we can get the footage. Since I assume the bulletin didn’t come out til later in the day, they’ll have had a good amount of time to collect a few people for the (awfully set-out and performed) shot. I’d guess those people with miserable faces taking a leaflet really were from nearby – surely if they were passionately involved with Better Together they’d smile for television, right?
You’ll notice from other news packages that there’s usually at least one shot like this, of ordinary punters who aren’t actually that fussed getting involved in an unnatural manner. I reckon BT can get away with saying “so what”, just like the Yes side have done in regards to the payment for the Herald article.
Just as a bit of contrast has anyone smarter than me saved a link to the excellent five whole minutes of coverage of the march and demo by Iranian TV. (shakes head in disbelief) I have had a look around but so many comments I can’t see the wood for the trees.
Would be nice to see it again and some might have missed it first time round.
Assuming they might be chums with Stephen, it might be relatively easy to identify who they are.
If we can determine they are all in fact Better Together activists I think it might be worth taking this both to Holyrood’s committee on broadcasting and to Paton. The BBC cannot collude in running staged propaganda to counter a big demo (which they had already lied over in relation to numbers) in favour of a cause they prefer. I wonder if the Labour MP was part of this. Presumably so as she seems to be there amongst it all.
“The arse end of nowhere” puts it rather better than “suburban”. Couldn’t they at least have used a city centre location? (Some people thought the implication was supposed to be that they were handing out leaflets to the actual marchers, but clearly that wasn’t intended.)
It’s staged, but my betting is that it was entirely staged by Better Together, who then insisted that the BBC come and film it to provide “balance” against the march and rally. Just like someone insisted they interview Blair McDougall during the SNP conference. Cross-reference Derek Bateman’s revelations regarding how they go about getting co-operation for this.
The scandal is that the BBC went along with it and gave them air time, and even criticised the Independence March for “preaching to the converted” – as if we can’t have one day out together, in a year!
Here is a previous BT leaflet drop event outside the Co-op in Dunoon
http://www.bettertogether.net/page/event/detail/localcampaignday/wtp
Compare and contrast with the Kingsknowe Leaflet Drop. Kingsknowe does seem a bizarre choice.
The whole thing looks something Damien from Drop the Dead Donkey would do.
Life imitates satire?
Further to my earlier post, I think this is the BBC pair filming a couple with the Yes banners.
https://twitter.com/La_Nefer/status/381388620436754432/photo/1
With acknowledgements to kininvie.
The Labor MP will probably have been blue-screened in. The lighting looks wrong for her to actually have been standing there.
Rev, could you not phone the identified Scotmid shop and ask some questions?
@wee162 –
‘That’s a bizarre place to be placing resources…‘
Exactly. Why send a team of people out to the back of nowhere? (No offence to the good residents, but that’s one of the quietest streets you’re likely to find anywhere. Normally you’d see someone, even a dude leaning over a railing, coughing.)
Unless you want to be SURE of somewhere quiet where you can choreograph such a blatant stunt without being taken to task?
Completely ludicrous.
Why worry, honestly. They show thousands on the Hill and cross over to a shambolic display by NO. Its like a party where no-one came and does them no good.
There’s that too, of course. Oh we have to show something of this march through Edinburgh. We’ll say there were 8,000 there, although three hours earlier the police had confirmed it was 20,000. And then we’ll show the Better Together thing.
20,000 to 30,000 was the eventual police estimate. Which the BBC never acknowledged. But it was a hell of a lot of people, as anyone with eyes could see. And we had a pipe band. Meanwhile we have a handful of BT activists on a deserted suburban street giving their celebrated Billy No-mates impression.
Overall, they might have buried it because it didn’t look too good for BT quite apart from its having been quite obviously staged!
I’m with Ray on this one. I think it has been clearly staged, but it’s in one of the BBCs daft attempts to get “balance” without understanding that in doing so they’re actually being incredibly biased. You see it all the time, for example in news about Israel bombing Palestine. 2 minutes footage of bombs dropping, dead children and scenes of hell must be “balanced” with 2 minutes given over to an Israeli propaganda person. It’s an abject failure of journalism and rejection of responsibility.
More worryingly, if you look at the BBCs document about “balanced coverage” during the period of the referendum where they need to be balanced, it’s very much the same – a complete failure to understand one side is extremely powerful and has huge political force behind it, while the other one is far less powerful and far more grassroots.
The differences between the Dunoon Co-op leaflet drop and the Kingsknowe Scotmid drop are stark, see Google Maps.
If you were serious about making contact with the public then the Dunoon drop is what you do to reach a maximum of people. Kingsknowe, however, is exactly the opposite, quiet, out of the way, in the morning. Why would BT pick Kingsknowe for a leaflet drop, it doesn’t make sense; unless that is if you are trying to stage manage an event.
That is what we have here – a stage managed collaboration between BT and the BBC, whose intent is to mislead and to deflect. can’t be any clearer than that.
I was in the area and it was not BBC cameras that they were using. I think the footage was filmed privately, then sent through to Pacific Quay for editing.
I suppose its collusion of a sort.
“Exactly. Why send a team of people out to the back of nowhere? “
Most likely scenario? BBC researcher putting the piece together needed some “balance” to set against the march. Phoned BT with half an hour’s notice to say, “have you got any events going on today”. BT hadn’t thought to arrange anything to country and a local “leafletting outside Scotmid in Kingsknowe North” was the only thing happening.
Cue a lot of: “oh bugger you mean we have to go THERE? NOW?” from BBC people and probably BT people who then had to make sure there were at least a few people actually there.
BT have organised leaflet campaigns outside Co-op shops before, but I believe they get permission beforehand.
No surprises there considering the Co-op fund the Labour Party through direct donations and with Co-operative Bank loans and debt financing, while some Labour candidates stand as Co-op Labour (because of this funding)… yup ‘United with Labour’ indeed and Better Together takes advantage of this set up.
So if anybody here has a Co-op membership card then you know where some of your money goes.
Why show BT handing out leaflets at the same time as the rally anyway?
That should be why is it news to show BT handing out leaflets at the same time as the rally anyway?
Marian is right; the people who take the leaflets all come from the same direction. If it happened normally then they would all come from different directions. Ray is right as well, the BBC will just claim to be balancing up their coverage. They would claim the same thing for Blair McDougall’s interview during the SNP conference. However, the problem they have got is that it does not work both ways. Blair Jenkins or Dennis Canavan were never interviewed during Labour or Tory conferences, when Ruth Davidson or Lamont gave speeches. On this basis the agenda of BBC Scotland is fairly clear: they will give a fig leaf explanation for their biased approach towards the No campaign (i.e. ironically one of balance), but they appear not to be bothered how it looks, or is perceived.
“However, the problem they have got is that it does not work both ways”
Exactly this.
Cath says:
29 October, 2013 at 2:50 pm
“Exactly. Why send a team of people out to the back of nowhere? ”
Most likely scenario? BBC researcher putting the piece together needed some “balance” to set against the march. Phoned BT with half an hour’s notice to say, “have you got any events going on today”. BT hadn’t thought to arrange anything to country and a local “leafletting outside Scotmid in Kingsknowe North” was the only thing happening.
That is plausible, but what were the chances that BT were organising a leaflet drop in Edinburgh at a time, at a place where you could film without hindrance not far from the main event?
There was no “half an hour’s notice”, this was planned.
The Labor MP will probably have been blue-screened in. The lighting looks wrong for her to actually have been standing there.
I don’t know. Could be, because I find it slightly incredible that an actual Labour MP actually went to a God-forsaken corner like that to witness four or five people handing out leaflets to an empty street. They could simply have interviewed her with the location footage showing on a screen in the background. Or blue-screened it, as you say.
The way the genuine passer-by apparently walks straight past the interview without deviating or turning to acknowledge the presence of the camera is distinctly odd, too. She’s very close behind the MP, whereas normal reaction would either be to give someone being interviewed to camera a wider berth, or to look at the camera yourself as you pass. It’s almost as if there was no camera and no MP and no interview there when she walked out of the shop….
On the other hand, you can see the MP’s hair blow in the wind very much in the same way the flag is blowing. If it was filmed separately, they took the trouble to do it outdoors and the wind was coming from the same direction. I find it hard to imagine they’d have bothered!
Either way, it’s a complete nonsense.
Why do they need “balance” in a simgle programme like this? The Yes campaign organised a huge march and rally, report it. The balance comes when BT organise their huge march and rally, and you report that with equal emphasis.
Oh wait….
So if anybody here has a Co-op membership card then you know where some of your money goes.
I won’t take a membership card for that reason, but I don’t have any realistic option but to shop there. I like their animal welfare policy as well (to a certain degree anyway, up to the point they start promoting the anti-vivisection terrorists). But mainly it’s the only grocer’s shop in the village. I’m stuck with it. The next nearest is a Tesco nine miles away.
“what were the chances that BT were organising a leaflet drop in Edinburgh at a time, at a place where you could film without hindrance not far from the main event?”
It wasn’t near the event though. If it had been specifically arranged I’d have expected them to choose somewhere at least a bit more central and/or busy, even if they were going to stage it. This seems to me more like the only thing they had organised within a 50 mile radius of Pacific Quay that day. Which would be plausible.
I think it has been a fairly obviously choreographed event. BBC Scotland should just have done a small item on the march.
@HandandShrimp
I wonder if the Labour MP was part of this. Presumably so as she seems to be there amongst it all.
I would imagine so. Incidentally, the interview with Sheila Gilmore was revealing in itself. She basically said that it was up to only the Yes campaign to give facts and information about independence. Gilmore basically inferred that the No campaign do not need to use facts in their campaign. Obviously not a surprise to us. However, it would be interesting to see what a neutral made of her comments. After all, if there is a No vote then they will have to defend what happens to Scotland in the event of it. She said that it was up to those who support change to give facts, meaning pro-independence supporters. However, there will be change in the event of a No vote as well.
I was shocked watching it the first time, that the whole news item had beenn triggered by the YEs March & Rally and yet bettertogether got as big a plug. While I’ve been arguing for balance in this debate for months, it only appears when the news is Yes . When NO trundle out their daily #projectfear scarey stories, blink and you miss any balance to the +ive.
Most likely scenario? BBC researcher putting the piece together needed some “balance” to set against the march. Phoned BT with half an hour’s notice to say, “have you got any events going on today”. BT hadn’t thought to arrange anything to country and a local “leafletting outside Scotmid in Kingsknowe North” was the only thing happening.
You reckon? I think BT are a lot more pro-active than that. I think BT was driving the whole thing.
They knew perfectly well where and when the March and Rally were taking place. The date was advertised from a full year out. You just bet your bottom dollar that one of the things they had planned was something they could insist on being given air time as “balance”. Then the Labour spinmeister leans on the BBC producer, and Bob’s your uncle. See Derek Bateman’s articles.
I’m just surprised it was such a pathetic effort in such an out-of the way corner of the city. Which could go wither way. Couldn’t they have organised something more impressive with a year to do it in? Or alternatively, is leafleting a deserted street in a deserted suburb really the sort of thing they do on Saturday mornings?
I’d love to know why there. There are other Co-ops.
“She basically said that it was up to only the Yes campaign to give facts and information about independence.”
The No camp use that a lot. Hopefully it’ll come back to bite them on the arse.
I’m quite sure that all the people in the clip will be quickly identified as Labour droids. But everyone does it, all the time, including the SNP. I can remember declining to shake hands with Alex Salmond during a by-election campaign because it was being staged for TV. Silly old moral me. Mind you Alex did tell us it was being staged, and asked for volunteers.
So in case it isn’t clear, the issue here isn’t the staging, it’s the news prominence given to it versus the Calton Hill demo. Decidedly suspicious.
While I’ve been arguing for balance in this debate for months, it only appears when the news is Yes . When NO trundle out their daily #projectfear scarey stories, blink and you miss any balance to the +ive.
Exactly. “Balance” is only something that happens when there is a positive story for Yes that has to be given air-time.
I thought BBC did not have to be balanced until the official campaign period so why go to all that trouble? The fact that they set up the shot demonstrates bias because they did not have to do that – by their own admission.
I can see why they have removed it from iPlayer. They should respond – large numbers of people are looking at this site now. BBC are becoming the story. Have you contacted them for comment Rev? Are they prepared to deny this was manufactured content?
In that part of Edinburgh, people tend to walk together for safety reasons.
It’s a fix alright. That guy in the black T-shirt is already wearing his medal for coming in third.
So in case it isn’t clear, the issue here isn’t the staging, it’s the news prominence given to it versus the Calton Hill demo. Decidedly suspicious.
It’s kind of both. If BT really did have a big, well-attended event that day, it would have been reasonable to cover it. It’s the fact that the BBC covered a handful of activists in a deserted street, and that the “event” was obviously staged, that’s the scandal.
Whether the BBC asked for some “balancing” material, or whether (as I rather suspect) BT set it up and then insisted the BBC cover it, it’s the fact that the BBC was prepared to show such an obvious set-up that I find particularly shocking.
Setting up Salmond shaking hands isn’t really comparable. If they want to get a nice shot, it’s better if the people concerned co-operate and take direction. It’s not as if nobody there would be willing to shake Salmond’s hand in the normal course of events.
What this was, was coached and directed “members of the public” doing something entirely non-spontaneous apparently because there were no eager crowds holding their hands out for the leaflets.
I had the pleasure of 30mins of conversation with a U-KOKer outside Prestwick Co-op on Saturday morning. He approached me so I took the opertunity to get into his head about various Indy issues, as we parted company his crest had fallen, his beliefs shaken to their core, and not one leaflet had been handed out. Result. It also took him 15mins to realise I was calling him a cock, he is going to wear a better together badge from now on :o)
The only other alternative to them using their own people to act as passers-by is obviously paying members of the public, but this would take a bit of time, normally people who are walking down the street are actually going somewhere so would need a good bit of persuading, and since theres blatantly no-one walking down that street begs the question where did they pluck them from?
The Labor MP will probably have been blue-screened in. The lighting looks wrong for her to actually have been standing there.
Additional to my earlier comments on that, I woudln’t consider it particularly nefarious if they had done that. Why should an MP take the time to trail out to an empty suburban street? It’s not uncommon to interview people against footage taken earlier. And look at the BBC studios that seem to have a big window on to the surrounding city-scape – except they’re internal rooms and the “window” is a TV display.
I really thought, after it had been pointed out, that that was what they had done. The way the woman walks out of the shop and right past the interview as if it wasn’t there is really telling. I was quite surprised by the hair blowing in the wind, which suggested the MP was really there.
But interviewing a Big Name somewhere else, with the actual event playing in the background – I think they do it quite a lot and I don’t think it’s really nefarious.
It seems to be Better Together’s Madness tribute band practising their Nutty Boys walk.
Stand down, folks. Although this may look like a blatant attempt to counter a vanishingly rare ‘positive’ story for independence in the form of the rally, despite the BBC not once – ever – having a pro-indy story to balance their daily BT smears, it isn’t. There is no organised, institutionalised Unionist bias at BBC Scotland. Derek Bateman says so. Phew. I was starting to think my perception that a marine-borne fowl was a marine-borne fowl was correct until Derek disabused me of that notion.
It looks like a baton relay race.
The BBC are dire.
@G Campbell-
‘In that part of Edinburgh, people tend to walk together for safety reasons.’
Ha! Love it.
I need some fags, but I’ve got to drum up a posse of neighbours before I dare go to the shop, and even then, when we assemble and head off team-handed a la Seven Samurai, to get the smokes and milk and bog-rolls and sundry other basics, we space ourselves out and walk at the same pace, pretending not to know one another.
Whoever came up with the idea is no Goebbels, and whoever produced it is an incompetent dick – don’t they keep records of who actually worked on this trash? The most embarrassing thing is that we fund them to do it…
Several people have mentioned it being put in as balance. Balance wouldn’t be a requirement in this instance, unless there was a counter rally to be covered.
It is impossible that the BBC happened to find the MP there. Though even if you took it at face value, it would highlight in very dramatic form that the Together people just can’t get it together.
Morag:
Completely agree that blue-screening in the interview with the MP isn’t anything untoward.
But is the BBC really too cheap for proper blue-screens and work with tellys behind the camera? That’s just sad.
Is it a perception bias, or did they actually spend *more* time showing footage of those five folk standing outside the Co-op than they spent showing the rally? (Including the interview with those folks in the background, however it was put together)
I may have a photograph with what I think three of the people are in. I call it 5 people and a tranny which is the pic taken by BT to “re-sanctify” the ground at Calton Hill after so many sacrilicious independence supporters walked over it. Unfortunately, being pulled from the web, it isn’t high quality, I’ll let you decide. I’ll send it over.
Kindest regards,
David Milligan Lvss
Hold on. whats all this talk of ‘balance’ – since when are we in the referendum run up period ?
As we have been told by the BBC already, they don’t have to show balance or impartiality. They’ve said that quite clearly in their answers to complaints, and most notably from the BBC Director General, Sir Tony Hall at the Edinburgh TV Festival in August when he announced it would ‘ be difficult for the BBC to remain impartial’.
It’s yet further demonstrated by the fact that any ‘balance’ seems to be 100% in the favour of the unionist campaign.
BBC journalists are there to report the news, not make it up.
Is this all maybe just a trial of a new sport they’re trying out for next year’s Commonwealth Games – synchronised leaflet-taking?
The Labor MP will probably have been blue-screened in
Nah, that is getting into “faked moon-landing” level conspiracy theory.
I think Ray is right – these civs will have been corralled, probably by the Beeb, and are probably not ringers brought in by BT. However, definitely staged in concert with the BT folk on the ground.
Ridiculous piece though – the idea that a rally attended by thousands needs to be ‘balanced’ out by giving the majority of the coverage to better together? Pfft.
Google images has a very useful feature. If you click on the photo icon in the search bar, you can upload a pic and Google images will search for similar pictres. It’s not 100% accurate, but you may get lucky
A YES vote for Scotland gives us in Wales hope that we may follow!
Hmm, It did seem a bit odd the way the four people fell into line as they unifromly hurried up to take a leaflet.
Even more strangely not one of them stopped to ask what the leaflet was about, or to ask any questions on the subject.
it had the look, of a staged event for the cameras.
Is it a perception bias, or did they actually spend *more* time showing footage of those five folk standing outside the Co-op than they spent showing the rally? (Including the interview with those folks in the background, however it was put together)
I counted it up. 28 seconds in total on the BT crowd, and about 53 seconds in total on the march and rally. The rest of the 1 minute 44 seconds was in the studio. It’s still an absolute nonsense, to give BT more than a third of the total air time. I mean, the bulletin was about the March and Rally, not BT. Unless they often go out to obscure suburban wastelands to film five people handing out leaflets to an empty street, and feature this as a news item in its own right.
Balance my eye.
I had a pal that made a wee film about the Picts and the Romans. He had a dozen re-enactment blokes dressed in their Roman armour walking past his movie camera then walking round behind him and crossing in front of him again. the idea was to give the impression that a whole lot of soldiers were marching past.
It’s a very old trick and it was used even by the German propaganda machine during the second world war.
The No campaign isn’t very good at it.
The November issue of free on-line magazine for the Celtic countries, ‘The Celtic Guide’ carries a photo of the Edinburgh rally and gives the figure as being around 20,000.
Seems that the Americans know more about counting than the BBC does.
See celticguide.com.
Freedom of Information request sent to the BBC (foi@bbc.co.uk):
“Dear Sir/Madam,
I would be grateful if you could furnish me with information regarding an item that was broadcast on Reporting Scotland on 21 September 2013 at around 6pm.
The footage can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7DE165hpkSk&
I’m concerned with the section of that clip from 0.54 to 1.23, which depicts activists from “Better Together” and Labour MP Sheila Gilmore outside a Scotmid shop in Kingsknowe, Edinburgh. I’d like to know the following:
(1) Did the BBC film this footage itself, or was it provided by another party and edited later by the BBC?
(2) If the former, how did the BBC come to be at that location at that time?
(3) Was Ms Gilmore filmed at the location, or against a “green screen” and superimposed later?
(4) To your knowledge, were any of the “members of the public” who accepted leaflets in fact “Better Together” activists doing so for the sole benefit of the TV camera?
(5) If not, were they simply passers-by who happened by chance to be walking up the street in close formation at that moment, or were they in some way incentivised to be filmed for a piece of choreographed footage?
(6) If the latter, were they induced to do so in any way by the BBC, or was it by “Better Together”?
(7) Why was this particular edition of “Reporting Scotland” not archived on iPlayer, as almost all other editions are?
Sincerely,
etc.”
Nah, that is getting into “faked moon-landing” level conspiracy theory.
I don’t think it is. We don’t see the MP interacting with the group at all. We just see her head-and-shoulders in front of a scene which is behaving as if she isn’t there at all. And logically, do MPs take time out of their schedules to go to events like this, in person? If it wasn’t for the coiffure waving realistically in the wind, I’d be 99% sure she was filmed elsewhere.
I just don’t think it would be a hugely big deal if that had been done. It’s not uncommon, actually. Although I’d agree it adds to the naughtiness of this episode, by pretending the event was more high-profile than it quite obviously was.
(3) Was Ms Gilmore filmed at the location, or against a “green screen” and superimposed later?
…maybe I need to watch it again. Edit: doesnt look like it to me.
Freedom of Information request sent to the BBC (foi@bbc.co.uk)
Oh wow, this should be fun.
Rev, Good shout and valiant effort, but I’m afraid you might get that BBC reply that says ‘for journalistic reasons we’re not going to answer’, or whatever that get out clause is that they have.
…maybe I need to watch it again. Edit: doesnt look like it to me.
I’m unsure. I think on balance it’s quite likely she was superimposed. It’s just the hair thing that gives me pause.
And logically, do MPs take time out of their schedules to go to events like this, in person?
Not at all implausible for her to be there, if she knew cameras would be there. Politicians are publicity hounds. I’m just talking about if it *looks* greenscreened and it doesn’t, to me. The folk in the background are not acting strangely by not hanging about waving, or whatever.
@the Rough Bounds
That is a terrific photo of the rally in The Celtic Guide. I can see why that photo, to the best of my knowledge, did not appear in any ‘Scottish’ MSM outlet.
One way (i.e. only when reporting pro-Yes news) ‘balance’ by numbers BBC Jockland style:
Rally footage: 0.20 – 0.39 (19 seconds)
Interview with Blair J: 0.39 – 0.54 (15 seconds)
BT set-up footage: 0.54 – 1.08 (14 seconds)
Interview with Sheila G: 1.08 – 1.23 (15 seconds)
She tweeted 5 hours ago. Somebody [else] should ask her 🙂
From the BBC editorial guidelines, section 3.4.16:
“For news and factual content, unless clearly signalled to the audience or using reconstructions, we should not normally:
• stage or re-stage action or events which are significant to the development of the action or narrative”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/94959012/BBC-Editorial-Guidelines-in-Full-1
Training Day
To be fair to Derek he has also more than hinted that there doesn’t need to be a co-ordinated bias at the BBC. Better Together provide the bullets and these are fed in to the very top to a mere handful or even one or two very senior executives and the troops on the ground at the BBC just have to get on with it and grin and bear it…until some like Derek can bear it no more. I think a number of the revelations that have come out in relation to the BBC recently is that bullying and pressure are not uncommon people are afraid to speak freely and there is less editorial freedom now than there has been for a long time.
Thats the 7th Scotland analysis paper out if anyone’s interested.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/253500/Scotland_analysis_security.pdf
“…maybe I need to watch it again. Edit: doesnt look like it to me.”
I don’t think so either, but what the heck, if we’re asking questions anyway might as well go fishing.
This from the BBC website regarding the ‘get-out clause’ I mentioned above:
The Freedom of Information Act does not apply to the BBC in the way it does to almost all public authorities in one significant respect. The Act recognises the different position of the BBC, as well as the other public service broadcasters covered by the Act (Channel 4, S4C and the Gaelic Media Service) by providing that it covers information “held for purposes other than those of journalism, art or literature”. This means that the Act does not apply to material held for the purposes of creating the BBC’s output (TV, radio, online etc), or material which supports and is closely associated with these creative activities.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/foi/publication_scheme/excluded.shtml
So basically the BBC don’t really have to answer to the public on any of their programme making activities.
Not at all implausible for her to be there, if she knew cameras would be there. Politicians are publicity hounds. I’m just talking about if it *looks* greenscreened and it doesn’t, to me. The folk in the background are not acting strangely by not hanging about waving, or whatever.
I was meaning the woman who comes out of the Co-op during the interview. She passes remarkably close to the MP. I’d have thought she’d either have avoided interfering with the shot like that, or maybe looked at the camera as she passed. She walks past as if it isn’t there.
I don’t know. Logic says added later, but the hair says really there. I’m intrigued enough by this little fake-up to want to know what the BBC replies on this subject.
mass refusal to pay license fee is the only real answer. courts would implode if authorities tried to prosecute every non-payer.
@HandandShrimp
“To be fair to Derek he has also more than hinted that there doesn’t need to be a co-ordinated bias at the BBC. Better Together provide the bullets and these are fed in to the very top to a mere handful or even one or two very senior executives.”
That sounds like the very definition of co-ordinated bias to me..
I would say that I am 99% certain that a green screen was used, there is irregular smooth fringing at the edges in some parts, also the lighting is quite different between the street and the person.
After the BBC confirmed they have no need to be balanced or unbiased this all seems rather much ado about nothing. I suppose after the last few days though, the Rev has very much earned some fun.
The Man in the Jar. The link you wanted, to the Iranian TV item about the March and Rally.
http://rt.com/in-motion/uk-scotland-independence-rally-197/
It is odd that the woman who has just bought the papers walks so close behind the MP without even glancing towards the camera, but she seems to be on a mission to get into her car and it’s quite plausible that she just focused on the car and blanked everything else out. A sort of tunnel vision.
It’s a bit like those tests where they ask you to watch a film and count how many balls were thrown, then you find out you completely missed a guy in a penguin suit walking across the scene. Not me, mind, I always spot the penguin and get the number of balls right.
Sorry for the above, obviosuly that link is the the Russia Today item, not the Iranian one.
After the BBC confirmed they have no need to be balanced or unbiased this all seems rather much ado about nothing.
Nope, not really convinced by the implication that the Beeb are perfectly entitled to be biased just because we’re not in the final stages of the campaign.
Thats the 7th Scotland analysis paper out if anyone’s interested.
Not remotely. A view I likely share with ~85% of the Scottish electorate.
😉
OK, second time lucky. This is the actual Iranian PressTV item, about 5 minutes long.
@Holebender
Now that would be good…like the classic ‘Mr Chop’ in The Thick of It, we get a Gregorys Girl style penguin and they turn up at various Better Together events.
@naebd
Pretty sure I dont say theyre perfectly entitled to do anything. Im saying they will simply state no case to answer.
O/T I do aplogise.
Johan Lamont denied on the Sunday Politics show, that she said “Scotland cannot be the only. something for nothing country, in the world”.
The speech has now been removed from SLAB’s website, to spare her blushes.
http://munguinsrepublic.blogspot.co.uk/
On a more hearty note Scotland has been voted the third best place in the world to visit in 2014, by the Lonely Planet guide.
When independence is obtained next year Im sure most Scots will feel, Scotland is the best place in the world.
http://www.lonelyplanet.com/scotland
Actually, it’s quite instructive to compare both the Russia Today item (one minute edited coverage of march and rally, without commentary) and the PressTV one (five minutes of coverage including commentary and analysis) with that mean, miserable bit of fakery from BBC Scotland, all of 1 minute 44 seconds of which nearly half a minute was the staged BT event.
“So basically the BBC don’t really have to answer to the public on any of their programme making activities.”
News is journalism, not creative. Or at least, SHOULD be.
just for clarification regarding the bringing up of leafleting outside The Co-operative and Scotmid as if it’s the same. It isn’t, completely different companies but both run in the co-operative model.
This drop though is clearly staged. Can’t say I’m surprised given the level of debate by the BBC on this issue.
I seem to remember that BBC’s ‘committment’ to covering the referendum stretched to hiring some (15?) apprentices.
Perhaps this is someone’s apprentice-piece
OK I think I have a name in the frame! I just wanna get a screenshot before it disappears. Hold on for a shit for Sherlock moment.
she seems to be on a mission to get into her car and it’s quite plausible that she just focused on the car and blanked everything else out. A sort of tunnel vision.
Maybe. I don’t honestly know one way or the other. I’m just quite intrigued by how this was done. I mean, the March for Independence was easy. A whole heap of people doing photogenic things in the middle of Edinburgh, with leaders in attendance, just go take a chunk of footage, interview a few people, and put together a news item. No stress.
But the BT thing. Where? HOW many people? Now just line up here and take the leaflets one after another. And hey look here’s an MP we haven’t seen chatting to any of the participants but we get a head-and-shoulders interview of her with the non-event in the background. I suspect it all took more organising than the coverage of the actual event the item was supposed to be about.
The narrative was that Better Together were out on the streets engaging with the public while Yes Scotland were “preaching to the converted”. They needed footage to play to that. Who provided the narrative?
Training Day
I would class what Derek describes as an informal old boy network coupled with managerial bullying. It is disreputeable and certainly corrupting but not an official policy. That said I think that Labour and Better Together are certainly coordinating their efforts to take advantage of this access to the BBC higher echelons and one or two supportive front people (nothwithstanding Davidson’s bizarre comments that the BBC are a nationalist hotbed of 5th columnists).
It may well not be staged at all; the two guys look like they’ve just come from a building site or some such – possibly going into the shop to get their lunch (it seems like the filming is being done right at the door), and it’s possible for to have bunches of people arriving at once.
The issue is really that it was felt necessary to do this for balance. Even then, the difference between what the Yes and No sides were up to at the year-to-go mark is good to see – thousands and thousands vs a few activists leafleting.
I see G4S are bidding to provide security for the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow in 2014.
lets just say G4S has a less than white reputation.
http://stopg4s.net/
guy in the black looks very like a UKOK and labour activist from Edinburgh Pentlands- see Liberton/Gilmerton pic on the Edinburgh Pentlands CLP blog
http://edinburghpentlandsclp.blogspot.co.uk/
Couldn’t possibly be him though, could it?
BBC will brush this aside sadly
Speaking of the BBC coverage of the referendum, is there going to be a coordinated Wings over Scotland response to the 12-week BBC Trust consultation (which we are already a week into)? Or are we just going to moan about it?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbctrust/our_work/editorial_standards/scottish_independence_referendum.html
We await our orders.
The narrative was that Better Together were out on the streets engaging with the public while Yes Scotland were “preaching to the converted”. They needed footage to play to that. Who provided the narrative?
Damn good question. Of course the people on the march were largely “the converted”. That was our Big Day Out, that we’d been looking forward to for weeks. Our chance to meet other activists, and especially those previously only encountered in cyberspace.
It’s absolutely ridiculous to infer that the Yes campaign isn’t talking to ordinary people on the streets. They are demonstrably doing a lot more of that than the No campaign. Previous posts here on Wings testify to that. This was a bitter wee dig at the actual rally, demanding it should be something it wasn’t intended to be, whereas that something was indeed being done at other times.
And it sounds exactly like the sort of contrived criticism BT would dream up, when it has not a snowball’s chance in hell of mounting an event anywhere comparable to the March and Rally. Blair Jenkins apparently “denied” that this was “preaching to the converted”. But who levelled that accusation in the first place?
I agree, I think the whole tone and approach was orchestrated by Better Together. It’s almost as if they wrote the script. Like someone said, well the BBC will have to cover this, so how can we minimise the impact. We impress on the BBC that we’re talking to real people and criticise the Yes campaign for holding a party for their own activists. And the BBC has picked this up and run with it.
I would very very much like to hear Derek Bateman’s take on this episode.
“The Labor MP will probably have been blue-screened in.”
Sheila Gilmore is a pavement obstructor par excellence and was definitely there, but you’re not entirely wrong.
Better Together and the BBC are using a simple perspective trick to make the leafleter look more busy than he actually is. The shoppers receiving the leaflets are actually 40 yards away from each other, but the bloke at the front is incredibly short and the woman at the back is on massive stilts. The entire street and buildings are painted green and a background image is added to make the street look shorter than it actually is using chroma key technology (notice how none of the shoppers are wearing green). The activist handing out the leaflets is standing on a mechanical platform which can be elevated as required to match the ever-increasing height of the shoppers. The BBC camera man is also sharing this platform. The recording is then sped up before Paul Sinclair delivers the final broadcast tapes to John Boothman at Pacific Quay.
Sweet Jesus Christ almighty. I know Longstone inside out, I went to primary school there, family in Longstone Road etc
There is no way in this world that the Co-Op there would *ever* justify the presence of a full-scale canvassing team – of whatever political party – at any time. There just isn’t the footfall. At best, one leafleter standing outside the co-op would be sufficient. Even on a Saturday morning.
If they wanted serious footfall for serious leafleting of shoppers, then around/outside Asda Chesser Superstore about 15 minutes walk away would be much more productive.
But *never ever* Longstone Co-Op. Just *never*.
ITS A COMPLETE AND UTTER STAGE-MANAGED SETUP!
Hi Rev,
Would it be worth sending a cheeky wee letter to the Co-Operative asking if they’re playing an active role in the referendum for Better Together, considering that BT activists seem to be camped outside Co-Op stores? And maybe ask if permission has been granted to the YES campaign too for similar leafleting outside their stores?
guy in the black looks very like a UKOK and labour activist from Edinburgh Pentlands- see Liberton/Gilmerton pic on the Edinburgh Pentlands CLP blog
http://edinburghpentlandsclp.blogspot.co.uk/
Couldn’t possibly be him though, could it?
Oh, GOOD CATCH!
Rev Stu at 4.07.
What was Sheila Gilmore doing at a Scotmid in Kingsknowe?
Apart from fact that she lives in the posh Grange part of Edinburgh she is the MP for Craigmillar and when I lived in Edinburgh, Kingsknowe is part of Alistair Darling’s constituency.
Normal Labour protocol is that Mrs Gilmore would have to inform Alistair Darling that she was engaging in political activity in his patch.
Here you go – check out this and please go to 21st September on this persons tweets for photos as well
https://twitter.com/BlairHeary
Now who is Blair Heary? mm seems he works for JoLa. What a surprise eh?
Nice day at Longstone.
Another give away… I saw the shambolic BetterTogether effort last Saturday morning at The Kirkgate, Leith. As usual … no jackets, no branding, a shabby poster attached to the railing, nothing to mark them out at all. But this Longstone mob … I’ve never seen a BT crew all jacketed and branded up like that. Its far too stage-managed, far too slick (and believe me they ain’t slick).
SHAM !
@ KenC @ Morag
Well spotted, the guy in black is the BT fellow as you say
Good eyes people !
@G Campbell
I am now certain she wasnt there, I just analysed a screenshot, there are remnants of blue/green screen technique quite visible in her clothing. This is due to using a colour that clashes with the clothing. Fringing and other issues with lighting as previously mentioned
This, and every other Better Tethered story covered by BBC inScotland is scripted by SLAB.
Just look at the reporting of Stevie Deans’ resignation… “using company time for union work” – a company paid convenor for goodness sake; although I note the narrative has changed to “political campaigning work”.
Sadly, this stratagem and collusion will continue.
The old girl with the grey hair being interviewed is clearly outside because her hair is blowing in the light wind. Unless of course Flipper Darling was actually standing in a studio next to her in front of a green screen blowing kisses at her.
Thats the BBC in Scotland reducing our country and the peoples democracy to that of a banana republic with a staged managed propaganda exercise right here in one of our streets. This is worthy of North Korea not Scotland in the 21st century. What a shambles. If we can get 20 to 30 thousand on a march and rally surely we can get a few thousand to protest against the BBC. We have to voice our feelings and at least attempt to hold them to account as we have just been chasing our tails as theyve been sticking two fingers up at us through their complaints procedures channels.
@ Morag – I think you are right as I noticed Blair Heary tweeted East Pentland with pictures from Longstone same day as the Calton Hill rally.
Blair Heary thanks the team for the leafletting at Longstone 21st September.
https://twitter.com/BlairHeary
“Well spotted, the guy in black is the BT fellow as you say”
Hang on. This is clearly Blair Heary in this pic:
https://twitter.com/BlairHeary/status/381484662301810688
He’s wearing a white t-shirt. The guy who walks along the street and isn’t seen taking a leaflet is wearing a black polo shirt.
“Poor BBC reporter (Ms. McAulay I think); she looks so pissed off at either having to march up Calton Hill on a cold windy day or was pissed off when she came across such a large pro independence crowd.”
cald and windy my arse I was up there in my wings tshirt 🙂
I watched this when I got back from the March, 8000 was said? Jackie Bird beat that by saying 7000 ! Gotta love the cheek of the BBC.
Same news program showed the BT leaflet giving and talking to “interested parties “, It was an OBVIOUS construction, I could not help but think there was someone behind the camera waving them to come when they were wanted. It stunk then, it stinks now.
I posted comments about this right after seeing it, and it was THAT obvious that they pulled it. That also points to wrong doing in my book.
That ‘Better Together/Labour’ wee lad is like a mini Proclaimer……
Edinscot, I”m with you.
O/T on the BBC
WTF; What planet is that ‘Andrew McKie’ from in the Herald on, now I’ve tried and tried to read this guys pieces but there are mix of pure ‘fish wife’ rubbish and ‘pseudo high brow’ guff.
Take it he’s writing for the wider UK who all read the Herald (?) Does anybody really get what this guy is on about, no mention of Scotland at all in his piece.
Rev – did you catch the piece by former TV boss David Elstein condemning the BBC and calling for ‘New Scottish Netwrork for Scots’ – in the Daily Mail Monday Oct 28 (found copy on train honest).
Could probably write a good posting for Wings ?
Get this on to youtube, with some funny music or voiceover, let everyone have a laugh at the BBC – Then put it out on facebook.
O/T – in an Independent Scotland I wish to be first to invent a new word -” lamonting ”
as in ” he’s been oot on the swally aw day and noo he’s lamonting ” with the word lamonting meaning – the ability to continuously talk for a prolonged period of time and say nothing 🙂
Feck me. Combining the BBC footage and the @BlairHeary twiiter pics from the 21 Sept, they must have had about 10 BT activists out there ! Its the first time I’ve ever seen that many BT activists in one place. And what kind of muppets would carpet-bomb leaflet a wee Co-Op just off Longstone Road ?
A nonsense from start to finish.
The BBC probably don’t have to answer the Rev’s foi request. They can just stay silent while being empty chaired on this one in front of a very large public. Maybe other outlets like NNS will feature this video and give their opinion on it. Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
… and why isn’t it on iPlayer? Maybe we can all, individually, ask them for it to be put up. Surely just an oversight …
I’m not surprised at this considering that the british media & the uk government has a history of faking stuff in the pursuit of getting their own way.
The unseen person on the right as the leaflets are handed out but whose sleeve is in shot briefly is probably Gilmour. Same colour of jacket exactly as she was wearing in interview. So not a blue/screen job in my opinion.
Staged right enough, but was it filmed and sent into the BBC for editing.
Twenty14
Unfortunately I don’t have the skills, but this soundtrack sprang to mind when I saw them marching down the street in the vid:
Just tried to get meself a bag of chips at Domenico’s in Stevenston High St, and couldn’t get through the door, bastard BBC crew there stopping everyone, asking what they think about the weather in London, so I jumped a bus into Saltcoats, but there was a stramash outside the Melbourne Café, all these folk trying to get their suppers but having the life pestered out of them by another camera crew asking about Theresa May keeping us all safe.
Anyway, to hell with the chips.
I’m off to Irvine, Turf Bar, High St, at 7.30 to hear Colin Fox and Tam Dewar talking about the case for an independent Socialist Scotland.
There won’t be a camera crew in sight.
Clip is too short really but Benny Hill might do it.
Someone could make a really funny comedy sketch out of this.Even funnier than the BBC effort.
Slightly O/T but not really…
I’m sure I just heard a BBCJockland radio reporter say (at the end of a package about Scotland being 3rd in Lonely Planet’s list of best countries to visit) that
“…next year might be the last good time to visit Scotland for many years to come“.
“I find it slightly incredible that an actual Labour MP actually went to a God-forsaken corner like”
Surely that’s what mp’s are supposed to do? no surprise really, labour mp turns out to support Labour activists being active in the city she’s an MP, not her constituency right enough but I’ sure Alistair was busy.
@call me dave
Note that Sheila Gilmore is quite small in height, note also that the woman passing behind her appears a good number of inches shorter than her, i guess she could be standing on a box 🙂
I’m just amazed anyone voted for her as an MP. She was a useless councillor who came across as a thick as mince jakey.
beachthistle – which show was that ? we can check on the i-player later.
Hey, it was KenC who first spotted Blair Heary’s picture, not me. I merely checked his link and responded enthusiastically. Credit to him.
Now, we know for sure that one of the four was a Labour activist. What’s the betting the other three are too? One is enough to make the case that BT were flat lying about engaging with ordinary members of the public, or the undecided. But four would be good.
Once all the information is assembled (preferably including an answer on whether the MP was actually there or not), this needs another article pulling it all together and hanging the BBC out to dry for broadcasting it – even once.
@tartanfever
It was the last bit of the last or next-to-last item on Newsdrive. Yes, will check radio iPlayer later.
Jamie Arriere says :
‘Speaking of the BBC coverage of the referendum, is there going to be a coordinated Wings over Scotland response to the 12-week BBC Trust consultation (which we are already a week into)? Or are we just going to moan about it?’
We should ask how their news coverage can be claimed to be ‘impartial’ or ‘trustworthy’ ?
As I mentioned earlier in another post, Labour appointed peer and current Director General, Sir Tony Hall said in his Edinburgh TV festival speech in August that it would be difficult for the BBC to remain impartial regarding the referendum.
We shouldn’t overlook the importance of this statement.
Memphist Fair enough:
Staging is bad enough but BBC involvement is seriously bad if it happens to be proved they were involved. WoS CIS squad now on the job time will tell.
I have to say, I have been leafletting before, and it is very hard to get a line of people marching towards you like that who don’t know you or you haven’t paid off. I would love to know about the “unanswered questions” which appear to be the mantra of BT. We get told about this all the time, yet nobody (apart from Bernard Ponsonby when interviewing Gideon) bothers to mention the answers which have already been given.
Yep, it’s Blair Heary in the blue 1980s shell-suit top. How appropriately retro!
The interesting question is who in the BBC did Better Together work with to construct this story? Blair Heary and Sheila Gilmour may well know. Perhaps someone could ask them the next time they bump into one or other of them in the kitchen at a party?
In my humble opinion the MP is live on site, no green screen technique is that good, usually you have to spend hours and hours rotoscoping to clear up artifacts.
It’s depth of field that is confusing you Morag. When recording a static shot like that, pretty much everything in the background is in focus, making the woman walking past look closer to the filmed subject than she actually is.
It would be cheaper to hire a taxi, take her there for a couple of minutes and then take her home.
“Now, we know for sure that one of the four was a Labour activist.”
No we don’t. Blair Heary isn’t the guy in the black polo shirt, as I said.
Shame really, if this had been a Yes mob, we could have phoned T May’s anti-terrorist unit and had name, address and who they are living with by return. But as they are the No good guys, the state knows nothing about them, of course; they’ve got nothing to hide so they’ve got nothing to fear.
G Campbell – I LOL’ed. Stilts indeed. 🙂
But Mephisto has analysed a screenshot, so I guess that’s that.
How about we deploy Occam’s Razor, and consider the possibility that, with the promise of prized TV air-time, an Edinburgh MP would, gasp, travel to a location in, gasp, Edinburgh in order to, gasp, be interviewed by the BBC.
Nah, that’s madness.
Come on – there’s plenty to be going on with on this broadcast without the cuckoo greenscreen stuff. I do promise to buy and eat a small hat if MP was indeed in a studio somewhere with a fan blowing her hair for extra authenticity.
It’s very sick & sad when the english Home Secretary comes up to Scotland to scare the crap out of us thicko jock pensioners. Totally obscene and disgusting. Our pensions, benefits and health services have already been threatened. Is this the good guys (and girls) up from west minster to make our elderly feel much safer. There will be a prize for the first person who can name the first “foreign” country Who wants to bomb or invade poor, wee stupit scotia. Nae engerland that’s to obvious. Am very greatful to Theresa May and aw they other bam pots and eejits frae Westminster and their best pals (slab) for their genuine concern aboot stupid wee scotland (well at least it’s oil and positive tax flow south). god save the gravy train.
http://www.labourhame.com/archives/3155
although the lady second left 4th snap down does look taller than the leaflet lady at the back. this has got me all conspiracied up.
The first guy appears to know the UKOK guy as can pick up Richard in their dialogue.
Rev Stuart
I’m wondering if ‘Mr Black polo’ and ‘Mr White T and Blue top’ is one of the same, unless their twins, as they have similar build and look
Mr Black Polo that appears not to take a leaflet is wearing a ID tag around his neck. Now why on earth would someone just ‘popping down to the shops’ wear an ID tag
Also it has been filmed at different times as the light in the walk towards is duller than the rest of the piece
How about a WOS undercover reporter chapping some doors on the flats across the road. Someone must have been watching the commotion in a quiet street like this?
@tartanfever
Well, there’s a ‘mystery’: the entire reporter/studio-anchor end-of-piece dialogue has been edited out of the iPlayer upload! http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03dwpcr
You can clearly hear the male anchor in the studio take a pre-speaking breathe-in at 1.57.55, but it then jumps straight to the final ‘sign-off’.
Interestingly the 7 o’clock news (i.e. which should start at the end of Newsdrive’s 2 hours) starts at 1.59.32, so it looks like 28 seconds have ‘disappeared’ – 28 seconds being about the time it would have taken for the line I definitely heard about ‘next year possibly being the last good time for a while to visit Scotland’ PLUS a snippy comment about ‘Lonely Planet only being about the ‘alternative’ tourism market, not the mainstream one’….ho hum…
All that was definitely said (although I can’t remember the exact words) and has all, it appears, been edited out before being put on iPlayer…
The main point, regardless of who appears in the video, I that fact that BT/BBC chose a rather unpopulated estate in Edinburgh
BBC’s favourite hunting ground is Govan High Street, its just around the corner from Pacific Quay. A busy thoroughfare that would have provided the usual ‘voxpops’. Instead they chose a Scotmid in a quiet part of Edinburgh with really dodgy filming. Normally shots of leafleting or anything similar is done from the other side of the street facing onto the ‘leafleter’ and showing people coming from any and all directions, with some taking and some not talking the offered leaflet. You get a sense of something. But to have the camera facing one way and having a line up coming towards the camera is very dodgy to say the least
“Ye wait fur ages and four come alang at the same time”
I agree its very dodgy. A friend of mine says she noticed that on twitter the labour bods only really interact with each other, thereby “manufacturing debate”. This is contrast to the YES folk who are ready to wade in and try and persuade people
Anyway whilst the hiedmistress wan wis talking, wan potential person walk right past ahint her, surrounded by “activists” . Not very effective I’d say
What bags do Scotmid give out? We have a woman with a heavy blue carrier heading to the shop – not away from it. There looks to be no shops from where she came.
O/T Theresa May is all over the MSM today with an old chestnut: saying that an Independent Scotland will not be able to defend itself from terrorism and will undermine the security of rUK, according to some paid-for report by other unionists. Alastair Darling has responded with a ‘see I told you so’ smug reply. What’s going to be regurgitated next I wonder?
No we don’t. Blair Heary isn’t the guy in the black polo shirt, as I said.
I thought you were joking. So the guy has more than one outfit. I’m clearly losing the plot here. Why isn’t he the guy in the black polo shirt? Sure looks like him to me.
“I thought you were joking. So the guy has more than one outfit. I’m clearly losing the plot here. Why isn’t he the guy in the black polo shirt?”
Well, because I very much doubt he changed both his clothes and his hairstyle in the course of the leafleting.
Interestingly the 7 o’clock news (i.e. which should start at the end of Newsdrive’s 2 hours) starts at 1.59.32, so it looks like 28 seconds have ‘disappeared’ – 28 seconds being about the time it would have taken for the line I definitely heard about ‘next year possibly being the last good time for a while to visit Scotland’ PLUS a snippy comment about ‘Lonely Planet only being about the ‘alternative’ tourism market, not the mainstream one’….ho hum…
You mean six o’clock news. I heard that, but I was reversing my car into my drive at the time. I heard the snippy bit about the “alternative” tourism market, but don’t remember the other it. Could have been said while I was out of the car opening the garage door though.
” Now why on earth would someone just ‘popping down to the shops’ wear an ID tag”
cricky i thought I was being paranoid, why would you take off your ID tag if you were just popping down to the shops?( only to have to put it back on again on the way back) I’m still wearing mine and I’ve been home for ages.
Well, because I very much doubt he changed both his clothes and his hairstyle in the course of the leafleting.
I didn’t realise you were comparing with a picture taken on the same actual day. Which one is that?
It’s depth of field that is confusing you Morag. When recording a static shot like that, pretty much everything in the background is in focus, making the woman walking past look closer to the filmed subject than she actually is.
I honestly don’t know. I don’t know, to the point where I really really wish I could find out for sure one way or another. (I appreciate the footage of Blair Jenkins on the hill looks fairly similar, and we know he was there. And indeed that could be her left arm giving out leaflets just off-camera to the right of the shot.)
RITE folks ahv read nearly aw they posts Balanced proggraming MA BIG ERSE BBC BIAS at its worse i wis pissed ah could nt get to the rally ( brain condition ) so I depend on the TV media in the UK parliament proggrames tae help me keep abreast of day to day politics 43 miles from Edinburgh the Rally the largest group of people outside the Festival gatherings and I have to depend on Russian TV no fkin way should the BBC/Print media be let of the hook on this One I stopped paying the licence fee & urged people on here & Yes Scot to do the SAME but let them know WHY E Mail / LETTER & to take the fight to their door ATLANTIC QUAY let them see a RALLY that they cant ignore if this COUNTRYS worth fighting for GIT THE BLOODY JAIKITS AFF ( noo thats wan RALLY ah would CRAWL TAE health condition or no am bloody frustrated ah canny dae mair Psychologist tellin me tae take things easy today ( ma niece told him I was on these scotland sites giving myself stress My answer to that was ITS THE ONLY THING THAT IS HELPING ME TAE COPE & that a labotemy was preferable to being in this condition & there was no chance of me giving up any FREEDOM SITES & CONTACT WITH OTHER LIKEMINDED PEOPLE theirs alot of clever people on here & thoughout other sites put your heads thegither & do something positive TAKE THE FIGHT TAE THEM RAMP IT UP PEOPLE SCOTLANDS PEOPLE NEED US
Go one Teresa, sing along now …
God Save Our Gravy Train
Expense sheets without a stain
God save our claim
Mail them by first class post
Get there before its closed
We’re Toffs who need your cash
God save our Train
“Poor BBC reporter (Ms. McAulay I think); she looks so pissed off at either having to march up Calton Hill on a cold windy day or was pissed off when she came across such a large pro independence crowd.”
cald and windy my arse I was up there in my wings tshirt
Good point. She’s seriously over-dressed for the weather. Duvet sort of parka and a scarf. I had my Wings sweatshirt in my bag and didn’t have it on at all, it was so warm. And barely enough wind to flap the flags.
Ene if she was there, and on balance I think she was, the fact remains that this has all the hallmarks of a put up job, and staged for the cameras. Whether or not the four “members of the public” are genuine or not is important, but should not be overshadowing the fact that the BBC were there filming it. As the Rev asks in his (optimistic) FoI request, just what exactly was the BBC’s involvement, if any? THAT is the issue, and the fact that they tried to hide it after the event, does lead to the conclusion (albeit circumstantial) that they WERE involved.
Is Theresa May working for us?
nice one ronnie
@Morag
Aye you are right, 6 o’clock news, I got a bit lost in an iPlayer time-warp!
And thanks for confirming that there was a snippy comment made by the BBCJockland journos about alternative/mainstream tourism, which is part of the anti-Scotland/Independence dialogue that has definitely been cut from the iPlayer upload/Memory-Hole version of today’s Newsdrive…
Offly topic but the Natwest advert with the child narrating his parents experience in getting their own house ends with an entertainingly political slogan.
NatYES. Is it subliminal propaganda or a staggering coincidence?
Is Theresa May working for us?
I believe so, yes.
@HandandShrimp
Well we know she’s working for the US.
Nothing to fear
Thirty thousand Rally
Five folk walk in a strange, straight line towards a Co-opie. Oops we’re on TV
Just saw A Darling on ch4 news. Deary me the mans on the verge of a nervous breakdown, or joining the yes camp. He was positively wetting himself with the thought of hs2 (£60billion) getting the ok from Westminster. Manchester, Birmingham, liverpool & London will all do very nicely out of it, anything further north ain’t in the picture, we stupid Scotland will be allowed to contribute (at least £6billion) for this glorious project for the benefit of the whole of GREAT BRITAIN. plus we look forward to being allowed to contribute (£12billion) to replace the wonderful trident system. I’m sure there are many more projects which won’t involve Scotland unless contributions are required. As BT keeps on saying Wee stupid Scotland can’t afford to be on its own it’s to poor!
Nae wonder ye were looking positively agitated Alistair, think that is treating the stupid people of Scotland with total contempt and rubbing their noses in it. Better together! Nae chance. With friends like Westminster and slab we really don,t need enemies, DO WE ALISTAIR
It is one thing BBC Scotland being biased in terms of their output in favour of Labour and against the SNP, of that I think there is no doubt. However it is quite another thing to actively collude with the Better Together campaign. Very worrying indeed.
You can see why some people would find it very difficult funding BBC Scotland.
Don’t watch the programmes
No viewers -no programmes.
Viewing figures of none. Will not last long.
Rev, for reasons already outlined I think your foi request will be knocked back. However, it would be worthwhile submitting the same request via BBC complaints page as it looks like editorial guidelines have been breached. Don’t hold out for a quick response.
Ene if she was there, and on balance I think she was, the fact remains that this has all the hallmarks of a put up job, and staged for the cameras.
Oh yes. Whether she was there or not is a minor point. I just thought, when someone suggested it, that they could well be right. Then it becomes slightly intriguing.
It’s the staging, and the pretence that these are genuine passers-by, and the fact that the BBC chose to film this and give it prominence against the March and Rally that’s important. That and that their entire script seems to be following the BT line of “we talk to real people while the Nats are up a hill talking to each other”.
“I didn’t realise you were comparing with a picture taken on the same actual day. Which one is that?”
The one I posted:
https://twitter.com/BlairHeary/status/381484662301810688
As you can see from the date and the comment, that’s them on Reporting Scotland.
Oh, and he’s reading these comments, btw.
Am I the only one who’s sitting laughing at this tonight? It’s absolutely hilarious.
I haven’t seen such poor acting since Crossroads ended!
Magic. Keep it coming Better Together 🙂
Well, I think we can all agree that it was a pretty pathetic show. Imagine if this was a Yes event (hard I know). We’d have been so embarrassed at the crappy turnout we’d have been begging the BBC not to show it!
Scotland has debt of £10Billion a year and making £4Billion of repayments because of Darling et AL. The illegal Wars, the Banking Fraud,Tax evasion in the City of London, Trident and redundant weaponry. All because of Darling & Co.
Get rid of Darling and Co. Get rid of the debt.
Darling (& Co) has made £Millions from killing, maiming, poverty and deprivation.
Hardworking people in Scotland have been conned by these crooks. Scotland raises £60Billion in taxes. Enough for all Scotland’s needs.
Westminster spends £720Billion – £20 more than before.
Total revenues raised in the UK £610Billion. (including £40 Royal Mail/Pension + £6BoE scam?) The rest of The UK borrows and spends 20% more than Scotland. Scotland gets the debt.
That picture was posted on the day at 11:26hrs. Is that relevant in the context of the timeline? Surely the BBC would not stumble across the Better Together’s by accident in that location.
An FOI to the BBC may take some time especially if they want to play silly buggers. But to be honest if they are breaking thier own rules to colaaborate in a stage event the ICO would look quite seriously as it comes under ‘misrepresenting’ which is a criminal expense. Expect either an apology, some sort of disclosure or a producer and BT dropped in the shit.
Terrified of actually meeting real people with real opinions that may differ very widely of yours? Use your own volunteers or turn up somewhere very very early in the morning. Terrified of holding meetings in public in case people see just how few bother to turn up? Hold it in secret. Ever seen a BT rally? No? Me neither. There are some things you just can’t hide but for everything else there is the Scottish MSM.
As you can see from the date and the comment, that’s them on Reporting Scotland.
Oh, and he’s reading these comments, btw.
Good luck to him. Well, if that’s him in your last picture above, it’s not him in the penultimate picture, I agree. The penultimate picture looked a lot like other pictures of him, though. Damn, back to the drawing board.
The rail line from the central belt in Scotland to the North hasn’t even been electrified, putting 30/60 mins on the journey North.
The North of England want their Cities joined up in a better inter-City service.
The population (without immigration) is falling. The baby boomers are retiring. There will be no business case for HS2. Taxpayers will be subsiding the journeys.
Journeys from Scotland would be even longer. They will have to get off a slower train and hang about to rejoin the HS2. Why should Scottish taxpayers have to subsidise an inferior service?
Tony Little, Morag:
I agree it looks like a really amateur homemade job, look at the expressions on the four people’s faces and their body language, they are thinking, “this is crazy”, even they can see it is a makey up moment.
Ask yourself where have I seen this sort of body language before? Its when you see politicians walking towards camera in a really awkward way because they have been told to do this for the camera, as a sort of introduction for a short video piece, and they feel daft doing it in front of other people, though lying isn’t a problem.
It’s poorly and quickly edited maybe partly on an iPhone or tablet. To me I would say this took about an hour to get a few minutes footage. Thats why the continuity is all over the place after it was hastily edited at Pacific Quay for final transmission. There is probably more footage of the MP and lots of walking, taking leaflets and serious looking discussion that has been cut. I bet the memory stick has been wiped, or (kept for blackmail purposes).
The point is, as the Rev says, this is a complete joke and no wonder they want it wiped from memory and history, trouble is you can’t do this in these days, the digital age works for everyone now.
FAO call me dave I checked the Bitter’s event website and they did post up an event for that date, time and location. The question is: did the BBC invite themselves over ? Or were they invited by BT ?
Either way it wasn’t random. The fact that the Bitter’s were all kitted out in branded-jackets indicates they were ready for the cameras. Anyone who’s seen their other shambolic efforts anywhere else in Edinburgh (last Sat morning in Leith) will testify to that.
Well, I’m off to Better Together Musselburgh’s first meeting tomorrow evening. Should be interesting. Any good questions I should ask?
They managed to fake a shooting in a shopping mall, I’m sure its not a problem faking a BetterTogether leafleting stunt. Its going to get a lot worse as we get closer to independence.
If I were doing this stunt for the BBC, I would take the film crew, who are possibly free-lance, the organiser, me, call a willing MP, MSP and some like-minded pals in a couple of cars. Self-contained.
Go somewhere quiet, surely, since everyone knows the script it would not take long to set up the camera and get on disk, you already have a deal with the shops management to leaflet at their doors, so just turn up and pop in to tell shop manager. Shoot and scoot. Send file to BBC for editing. No need to look for punters and explain what you want.
What d’you think, Blair. Close.
Love reading all of the above, and all these intricate theories and details…
But IMO, the crucial question is Was this news? 20,000 people marching is News; a few guys handing out leaflets isn’t. No possible stretch of the imagination can make it news. So what is it doing on the programme?
The only possible answer is to provide balance. But news programmes are not magazine or discussion programmes: they are there to tell you what is happening. If the news is that a car has been squashed by a falling tree, you don’t expect then to see a shot of a car that hasn’t been squashed.
So I guess the ‘BBC was nobbled by BT in advance’ is the best answer. Bet they were promised some nice shots of crowds getting leaflets. In the end they got some lousy staged footage, but didn’t have the balls to throw it in the bin (until later)
The fakery and the location aren’t really salient points. The salient point is the quality of decision making within the BBC, and its apparent inability to stand up to pressure. I wonder what Derek Bateman would make of this.
Well if Blair Heary is reading then you left yourself wide open for this by posting your comments on Twitter [21st September]. As one of your followers said ‘Are you at your top secret ‘public’ meeting?’ Says it all eh?
Are you happy with yourself at taking part in a fabricated video stunt to deceive the people of Scotland?
When you see how easily this one has been dissected maybe you should consider using your talents for the best outcome for us all. Your ship is sinking, c’mon Blair its easy.
Folks – let’s not get carried away. Seems to me this is a fairly ordinary case of TV cameras being taken to an event to record some news – albeit it’s not really news. Of course BT have arranged for someone to be there to talk to the camera. That’s exactly what YES or any of the parties would do to get their message across, given the chance. It all looks like standard industry practice. Forget the blue/green screen stuff – BT just arranged for her to be there when the BBC were filming, to give them a soundbite.
However, the leaflet walk-by does look staged, and poorly staged at that. If that’s the case, it must contravene the BBC guidelines.
The main question remains as previously known – why was this insignificant non-event given any coverage at all as part of the reporting of a very significant event elsewhere? Did the BBC news editors honestly think this was justified, or does this smell of excessive influence by someone on the BT side? It’s rather like the convention-busting coverage BT got during the SNP conference converage on the BBC.
I was just wondering if these ‘leafleters’ had the courage of their convictions and wore union flag patterned outfits instead of the quasi-pantone 300 shade uniform – what would be the reaction. I hope these cod film extras didn’t get paid or Equity might have something to say.
The BBC a few years ago rolled up to a scrap metal dealers in Glasgow making it look like they were just passing to ask his views on independence. The owner proceeded to say that Scotland is subsidised and couldn’t stand alone. It was then found out that he had signed a BBC list of 100 pro-union business people.
The other Blair that you guys are talking about. Wasn’t he the guy sitting on the folly at Calton Hill during the rally watching? I know I wasn’t the only person who spotted him. Guy next to me said he was Mi5 or 6.
A bit O/T, Rev, but have been meaning to mention.
At the rally, my wife was watching at the bottom of Bridge St. where the march turned rt. She got talking to a couple from Fife, in for a day out. They knew nothing of the rally being held, but told her on seeing the numbers and the time it took to pass that it had changed them to voting Yes.
This story is now on Newsnet:
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/8255-bbc-scotland-accused-of-filming-faked-better-together-leaflet-handout
I heard radio Scotland on my way home from work tonight talking about how Scotland being voted third most exciting didn’t really count because it was some radical thing or other. I wasn’t really listening closely enough to be honest. It would have been around 16:40 though.
I saw this broadcast after getting back from the march. I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, but regrettably I didn’t complain like I usually do. Anyway, when BT have their big parade on the 12th of July, can we have a video response showing a line of Yes people being given leaflets please BBC ‘Scotland’? just for balance you know Mr.Boothman!
O/T. Congratulations to Scotland’s Rugby League team in winning their greatest ever World cup win. They have just beaten Tonga 26-24 in a cracker of a game. Scotland was rank outside underdogs and Tonga were expected to top the group.
The result means only Scotland can top the group now.
What a fantastic effort Scotland.
P.S. A few Yes flags and Scotland/Catalonia in the crowd.
Just tried to play the video on you tube, looks like it’s been ‘removed’
scotchwoman says:
29 October, 2013 at 9:18 pm
Folks – let’s not get carried away
Aye. No need to fear Project Fear. If BT could film 20 k marching through Edinburgh in support of the Union while Yes had just 5 hanging around the Scotmid in Longstone then I’d be worried.
Even though the filming was staged; God it does look bad in terms of numbers though, doesn’t it ?
Same as other BT events I’ve witnessed poorly attended and miserable looking in terms of observation. Sad for the poor souls. Volunteers outnumbered the public.
Embarrassing for poor Blair & his pals, Britter Together did not seem to work in this part of town.
Some light relief and some common sense.
http://archive.is/UQhYk
This is all a bit pathetic. All of it. Get out and chap some doors folks, or post a few leaflets through letterboxes. That might convince a maybe to become a Yes. None of this has a hope.
We already know that No Scotland can’t count, that they lose their Twitter-tempers a lot, and that they’re scared of everything and everyone.
But I bet you they’re really really good at Line Dancing.
I’m surprised the BBC managed to find them since the Kingsknowe Co-op leafletting gig was originally placed out in the ulu near Threipmuir Reservoir on the BT interactive map of their Big Push to mark 1 year to go. 4 bods and Z-list MP, hardly seems worth the electrons.
None of this has a hope.
Yes and No. Such articles tell us a great deal about the state of play.
I asked the question before but got no response. Is there any way to contact BBC Scotland by email/text without going through the official BBC complaints section which is not fit for purpose?
Probably nothing would change but a cascade of comments to them would be an irritant at least.
The whole thing is clearly staged.
The first male and first female appear to get one leaflet each.
The woman at the back swaps the blue bag she’s carrying to her left hand in very early anticipation of receiving leaflets. She (well, we’re led to believe it is her) receives two leaflets, into her now free right hand, which have been specifically angled for close-up camera shots.
Blair Heary obviously knew when this footage was to be broadcast by the BBC. The picture Stu has posted a link to, looks suspiciously like a photo of a TV set with the news programme paused at that point.
ITV are reporting now that Yorkshire is the 3rd most interesting “region” to visit in the world as awarded by Lonely Planet. No mention that the same company put Scotland as the 3rd best “country” to visit. Better together?
I was at the SNP conference in Perth and saw Brian Taylor (toodle oo the noo).
He waddled like a huge bloated duck.
I saw him again on TV this evening and he looked absolutely hellish.
Give yourself a break Brian; working for BBC Scotland is seriously affecting your health.
‘The gods that you worship show up in your face’.
@The Rough Bounds
I was behind TL in the queue in a chippy a wee while ago. He was obviously concerned about his health: “A white pudding supper and a pint of milk please”.
And he has the cheek to make on-air sarky comments about AS’s size, diet, etc.
Noam Chomsky has a description for this-
Manufacturing consent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent:_The_Political_Economy_of_the_Mass_Media
Just watched Flipper Darling on Scotland Tonight he managed to get is usual “best of both worlds” mantra in at least three time in his short interview – blinking furiously with every lie he uttered.
On Scotland Tonight
Did Cap’n Darling really say post independence we would pay VAT on fuel ?
Quote –
‘ I just wonder how many people in Scotland want to see VAT on Food (?) or VAT on Fuel ?’
I think he did if you listen hard – is that not scaremongering ?
Now the No Side are really at it.
I thought this idiot was a Chancellor not a Chancer !
Dont we already pay VAT on fuel?
Lies again and not counterd by dazzled commentator J MacKay is this just lazy or preferential treatment ?
O/T
Just in time to comment to the House of Lords
http://www.parliament.uk/documents/lords-committees/economic-affairs/ScottishIndependence/EA55_Letter_to_EU_President_20121029.pdf
The Economic Affairs Committee of the House of Lords – the upper chamber of the British Parliament – is conducting an inquiry into ‘The Economic Implications for the Uninited Kingdom of Scottish Independence’ The inquiry was launched in May and we expect to publish our report in the New Year.
It would be helpful if you could respond by the end of November. The Committee would expect to publish your reply alongside all the other evidence to its inquiry.
Just do it.
I’m trying to find the sketch of Ronald Villiers when he bumped his way into getting interviewed in a shopping centre.
gordoz – Yes can confirm Fuel is subject to VAT
Strange that a former chancellor of the exchequer wasn’t aware of that, then again he was and still is not fully grasp anything financial
Just to add a few notorious pieces about BBC journalism not being what it claims to be.
Here the BBC interviewed what it claimed were just “supporters” of the BNP but who turned out to be ranking party members and officials. The interviews were broadcast on children/youth radio –
BBC: Radio 1 not tough enough on BNP
Guardian
12 Jan 2010
http://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/jan/12/radio-1-newsbeat-bnp
Here BBC political editor Allegra Stratton, working as a government propagandist, fits up a working mother who receives housing benefit by deliberately portraying her as an unemployed scrounger on housing benefit –
How Newsnight humiliated single mother Shanene Thorpe
News Statesman
29 May 2012
http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/broadcast/2012/05/how-newsnight-humilated-single-mother-shanene-thorpe
from 03:22
Classic dissappearing up their own arsehole guff on Newsnight Scotland tonight about HS2 rail nonsense; part that may come up to Scotland (that wont need to come all the way ? What is this about running ourselves down and accepting it from academics no less)
Notice Brewer did not interupt the guests – why whats different oh this is UK stuff with Scotland as a appendage to ok then.
Brewer left holding the spot (in person) on Wild Bores ! Ran out of time as usual.
So nothing to delve into in Falkirk – Labour debacle then ?
Nothing from Lamont ?
@annie-
‘…blinking furiously with every lie he uttered.’
Indeed. It’s becoming distressing to witness.
There must be people who frequent this site who know about such stuff – is it possible to harbour parasitic creatures (e.g. ‘eyebrow crabs’) in one’s facial hair without being aware of them?
From the video there are maybe four to five “No Scotland” activists there counting the MP.
The BBC have sent out on location an interviewer and a cameraman and probably a soundman for five people.
How many cameras and crew did they put on the Calton hill for 20,000 people? If they kept to the same ratio they should have had 12,000 crew up there.
I heard Channel 4 news reporter at 7 pm on HS2 stating “Rural Buckingham UKIP and the SNP” as being opposed to HS2.
A deliberate attempt to (a) misrepresent the stated Scottish government position
or (b) lump those nasty Nats in with UKIP
or was just typical London ignorance
Which was it?
@DougtheDug-
Aye.
And we know that, post-Birt, the BBC operates internal business systems whereby those people will not have been paid unless they submitted detailed invoices.
Have they vanished too?
It isn’t the Canonsgate it doesn’t even look like it is in Edinburgh I have lived in the city all my life and I’m in my fifties and I don’t recognise where it is.
Now come on, this guy is treated as some kind of God by the NO side of the referendum debate, but we can’t let the ‘VAT on fuel’ thing go unchallenged can we ?
How can the ‘fear’ of an Independent Scotland introducing VAT on fuel be left at the YES door.
VAT on fuel, is a fact of life already as part of the UK, some might say yet another UK dividend.
What is this former Chancellor allowed to say unchallenged by STV ?
@ scotchwoman
Completely agree, good old common sense. Lets not get too carried away with the bullshit.
Slighty O/T – Just watched Newsnight and Newsnight Scotland. Newsnight spent most of the 10.30 to 11.00 slot on the HS2 story. Which is fair enough as it is of concern to viewers south of the border. Just to note that the HS2 is currently consisting of two phases. Phase 1 is connecting London to Birmingham , followed by Phase 2 connecting Brirmingham to Leeds and Manchester. Phase 1 of the project is supposed to be completed by 2026 and Phase 2 by 2033
Costs at 2011 figures have been set at £ 21.4 billion for Phase 1 and £ 21.2 billion for Phase 2, so total of £ 42.6 billion.
Labour have apparently changed their minds and are now supporting the project. It should be noted that there were a number of backbench Labour MP’s demanding that Labour support the project. It should come as no surprise to anyone , but it was also reported that Scottish MP’s were at the forefront pushing to support the project, even although the HS2 lines coe no where near Scotland.
So its with that background that I found it unbelievable that Newsnight Scotland also covered the HS2 story. The BBC tried to make out that there was a ‘rumour’ that there would be a ‘Phase 3’ connecting Leeds and/or Manchester to Scotland, all the while just quoting the cost that only covers Phase 1 and 2. Obviously nothing else was going on in Scotland , relevant to Scotland
@ Edward
Yeah thought that myself and no interuptions from Brewer, whats that all about ?
Is this UK topic one that he likes personally so decides to behave properly?
(Apologies if this has already been posted – Rev linked to it via Tweeter.)
For whoever was responsible for and/or involved in the travesty this thread is about – sit your sorry arses down.
Watch, and learn…
@gordoz – Spot on about Darling and VAT on fuel. John McKay is either not up to the job or chose to deliberately ignore Darling’s faux pas.
@meself (12.10)-
I used to consider George Galloway a hero of sorts. Even when he did the whole Big Brother thing, I still defended him, and took many painful pelters from friends and family.
But after watching him in that? God help us…sometimes it’s just sooo tempting to start compiling lists, but equally disheartening when you see some of the names which would have to be recorded, all things being equal.
On a more positive note – ’twas a total tonic to hear Colin Fox in Irvine tonight. And Tam Dewar, outlining the Posties’ position (they’re on strike next Monday – please, please don’t swallow the predictable outrage) – the socialist case for an independent Scotland is rock-solid.
@ ian Brotherhood
Absolutely disgusted and ashamed with these sections of Rangers fans interviewed – a shame on this nation of that there is no doubt
As a sometime fan (religion was never an issue for me), I personally apologise to all who would be offended by the bile on display in the film (I believe there are some genuine fans who support the Ibrox team but think they are confined to a minority).
Proud of the responses from what seemed like genuine Celtic fans (very heartened by their comments).
Galloway though WTF (What is it with the Labour / Celtic thing MP’s ?) out of step with the core supporters methinks ?
@Ian Brotherhood
Blimey! Just watched that documentary. It’s weird seeing a programme about indy that’s unbiased and objective. Seems wrong somehow.
Those Rangers fans were apes!
Can’t understand why people go to George Galloway, he’s so out of touch with Scottish affairs that he thinks losing Labour MPs would actually make a difference. Superb orator and debater (and anyone who gives Paxman a kicking can’t be all bad) but apart from that, a waste of space.
@Gordoz-
If there’s any one segment of the whole 25-odd mins I felt uncomfortable about, that was it – Rangers going to Forfar. I don’t believe that those belters were typical of the fans turning up to see that game. Likewise, I can’t help wondering if similarly-’emotional’ Celtic supporters were really in such short supply on the night that the crew visited Parkhead.
Did they get the balance right in that bit? Mibbes aye, mibbes naw. It just serves to highlight why ‘good’ journalism is so, so difficult. And why it’s so futile to try and fake it.
Here’s a thought – I live in an area which is, by any objective analysis, a pretty staunch ‘loyalist’ neighbourhood. (Just heard a rumour yesterday that ‘Mad-Dog’ has moved into the top-end of the town – ‘oh, happy day…’) I’ve had my ‘Yes’ stickers on the car for a few months now, and it bears no more scratches than it had when I got it.
So, if referendum-related sectarian emotions are running high? They’re not running that high.
Maybe the old ‘divide-and-rule’ shite isn’t working as well as it used to?
Yeah I agree but the comments in question still gut the patriotic soul.
(know what I mean ? ) – only hope is after independence, they might move on to their real spiritual home if we’re lucky; dont believe a salvage job can be done with such views.
Oh, non-Twitterers, you’ve got to see this stuff – go to the Twitter feed above…seriously.
This, from the BT dude…
‘We were outside a busy shop on a Saturday morning as locals arrived to buy rolls and newspapers. No need to pay anybody.‘
Re Mr Galloway I had never wanted to put this online until now, after watching that crap.
I went to join the Labour party in 1982, I was a young man working on the rigs and on my 2 weeks off just pissing it up against the wall.
Politics I thought, get involved and help make things better?
Anyway it was Mr Galloway and a comrade manning the office that day in 1982, I filled in the forms and handed over my fiver membership fee.
Galloway says to his pal “that’s our beer money for dinnertime sorted then” I said that’s not funny he laughed and told me “just joking wee man don’t get too uptight.”
I continued to support Labour but never paid another sub to them, he disgusts me.
OT
But also a bit OTT
Sorry about the bad taste but this is the quote of the day about the death of Lou Reed:
” Didn’t he sing “I wanna be black” once? He is now.”
In the comments of an opinion piece by the ex polish plumber of Guido Fawkes fame in his blog.
http://mrishmael.blogspot.co.uk/2013/10/no-manners-no-talent-no-brains-no-liver.html
Please do not ban me Stu.
Andrew Morton says
“Any good questions I should ask?
Yes ask them where the mirrors are that’ll turn a scout hall with a crowd of 6 and a (wee dug) into Cecil B De Mille production with cast of thousands.
@ Ianbrotherhood
That was some video! I get so tired of Rangers fans stepping up and saying “we’re not all like that”. Really? The video is a pretty much accurate depiction of my experience of them since my school days in the central belt. That’s been nearly fifty years now. I also work with two of them who pretty much share the exact same opinions as those in the video.
It’s going to be interesting to see what those terrorism arrests were about at the weekend. Pro-Scottish terrorists? I expect if that were the case we’d have heard all about it by now. No, much more likely is that they are the militant wing of Better Together, which would be why there’s been so little information leaked thus far.
And no, I’m not a Celtic supporter and I’m not catholic.
@Ianbrotherhood
“But I bet you they’re really really good at Line Dancing.”
Coffee everywhere. Post of the day. 😀 LOL
Training days says
“Stand down, folks. ”
What? are you saying Bateman is an agent provocateur?
I thought about that and I really don’t think so,
a false flag operation is something you do once, quickly, and get out before your caught,
But I do think he’s been standing so close to the monolith for so long he cant see around it,
Apologies if this has already been posted. The original BBC clip at the start of this article has been re-edited Chewin the Fat style.
Ken C says
“guy in the black looks very like a UKOK and labour activist from Edinburgh Pentlands- ”
I’ve looked at both those pictures with a cynical eye prepared to dismiss your point and after careful consideration
I’ve decided if that guy in the black polo is not the UKok guy in the other picture
he’s got a doppleganger
gain yersel Ken
lets nail the bastards 😉
‘In an otherwise completely deserted street, four people in the space of nine seconds march very briskly and directly towards a “Better Together” activist and take leaflets from him’
That was first thing that I thought too. All in a line, all marching at the same speed. Eh!!
I can’t even work out what the first boy said; just a mumble (probably, ‘what am ah doin’?).
Odd …but if the is what BT are doing on a Saturday afternoon amongst their own, then so be it!
Oh please
can somebody have a word with that STUPID (cELTIC) girl in Ians press tv video
I’ll not repeat what she said but OH MY GOD SERIOUSLY?
If anyone knows or recognises the 4 folk that walk impressively by in the film, then have a wee dink at their Facebook page. Could be quite funny, if it turns out that their involved in UKOK! If we can flush out one, then the other 3 are in cahoots also!
Brilliant Holebender 🙂
Ps. I am cancelling my TV licence direct debit today… been considering it for some time now, but the last straw has been plonked on this camels back.
Ian Brotherhood
Oh God …how awful is that video. Was that the best they could find in the Rangers Fans. I know for a fact, a helluva a lot of Rangers fans who are very decent people, with very liberal views. That was just shocking! Everyone here, knows of decent Rangers fans.
That was a very bad image to portray about Scottish people, and what most folk, who may not know Scottish culture, and may perceive that Scottish Presbyterianism, is very anti-Catholic, and fundamentalist. That schism has been resolved. I would abhor, any person, who uses their religion to denounce another.
O/T BBC news report
the cycling lobby are to press the Scottish government for more money for cycle lanes,
laudable sentiment you might say?
Let me tell you on two occasions on the road from kingcardine power station I have been met with a cyclist moving along at , well cycling speed, and having to pass him on a relatively busy road can prove hazardous,
two metres away is an expensively built dedicated cycle lane which he (for reasons known only to himself ) decided not to use, meanwhile roads are left to deteriorate to the point that to eschew the cycle lane in favour of a heavily potted road leaves one somewhat speechless,
so having stopped at a car park in Culross to enjoy the veiw said cyclist comes by,
I shouted at him and asked why he doesn’t use the cycle lane especially on such a dangerous road, his response “I’ll cycle where I fucking well like” that was an elderly man of about 70.
Hi John King,
I agree mate. I drive around Edinburgh on a daily basis, and believe me …cyclists! Oh god …how some of them reach the end of the day baffles me.
As an example, I was working late last night. At 9.40pm, coming off Charlotte Sq. on to Princes St., a lass on a bike, stops at the red lights, looks both ways, and ploughs on through the pedestrians who are crossing the road (the wee green man had kicked in).
This disregard for the law, the pedestrians, and even motorists drives me absolutely bonkers!
I almost knocked one down on Monday, when he cycled down a one way street towards me. It’s relentless. I see it a dozen times a day!
Seriously, if I was Edinburgh council, I would employ the Police to go around, and lift folks bikes off them if they break the law. Put the bikes in a van, give them a ticket to a station where the bike is going to go to, and get them to pay a £100 fine. Once the word gets around, I bet that will stop the law being broken by cyclists.
Re the video; the most important part was Professor Curtice’s comment that social media and knocking on doors was not enough for the Yes campaign. That’s worth consideration.
Equally the metaphor of Darling sitting back and defending a big lead to win the No vote. I have never considered the lack of passion and visibility of the No campaign to be an actual tactic, but perhaps it makes sense.
As for the Rangers fans. So many words have been used in the past by others to describe and comment on this dark underside of Scottish society. In the future, there simply has to be a drive to better educate some elements in our society. It’s embarrassing.
@ JLT
“Everyone here, knows of decent Rangers fans”.
I’ve never met one.
“Everyone here, knows of decent Rangers fans”. I’ve never met one.
Hey, hold on. I won’t hear a bad word said about Amy MacDonald. <loveheartsmiley>
TV interviewers are just not up to speed on all the nuances of the independence debate that’s why Darling & Co get such any easy ride.
Heard Patricia Ferguson on radio this morning on non existent threat to a North Glasgow rail line. Why did the BBC not take the opportunity to ask if Stephen Deans was a suitable person to remain in charge of Labour candidate selection in Falkirk. You bet it would be asked if it had been the SNP’s problem.
The funniest thing I saw this morning was a letter from one John Kelly in the Herald Letters page complaining about a poor BBC interviewer having the audacity to interrupt Johann Lamont on Sunday’s politics thus forcing her to think rather than repeat Paul Sinclair’s script.
If SNP supporters were to complain every time an SNP spokesperson was interrupted there would be no space in the letters columns for other more serious topics.
Bubbles at 7.40
Lets keep this kind of football sectarianism out of pro independence sites.
I have many good Rangers and Celtic fans as close friends but I do support one of the three teams that have the Saltire as part of their club badge.
On the Press TV video never trust a journalist who doesn’t take time to find out correct pronunciation, it isn’t Faw Fah.
And all travelling football support is made up of the hardcore fans, we don’t hear what he’s asking them, guessing it was fairly provocative given the point made back to him about the Queen ….. and relying on GG, says it all really.
John King / JLT. No excuse for breaking the law or discourteous cycling. But you have to ask yourself why someone would want to ride on a potholed road with cars and lorries rather than use a cycle lane.
In my experience a lot of cycle lanes are useless. They don’t go anywhere you want to go, they have bad junctions, uneven surfaces and are usually littered with broken glass or other debris. Not all are like this, but the main one round me is. The council sticks a cycle way sign up on a narrow, uneven pavement that interfaces badly with roundabouts, job done as far as they are concerned. I would LOVE to be able to use it and get out of the traffic but it is not fit for purpose.
The main effect of the cycleway sign seems to be on drivers, who think cyclists now shouldn’t be sharing the road, raising their blood pressure. (btw – I also drive).
Now that most smart phones have cameras it would be a good idea to photograph as much BT and BBC activity on the streets as we can.
Careful though not to photograph strategic buildings or policemen.
Is it also a criminal offence to do so here in Scotland as it is in England and Wales?
If anyone objects see them in court and then we know for certain who they are.
Bubbles, @7.40am.
Whoah, stop right there. This is no place for sectarianism and blanket smears.
My extended family is a broad mix of protestant and catholic, football fans and rugby fans and yes, Celtic and Rangers fan … and we have no issues or problems with religion. I suggest you try to gain the same mature attitude.
Bubbles what would you say to the Rangers top wearing rally stewarts who were handing out YES leaflets? Broad brush statements are the type of thing the No camp excels in.
Aye, sectarianism, celtic vs rangers (in the sectarian sense rather than simply football rivalry), protestant vs catholic bigotry… is a very British unionist tradition. Lets leave it to them.
Another London Dividend
Heard Keith Brown SG for transport knock her scare sorry flat in two sentences. Accused the labour party in Glasgow of manufacturing stories and running to the BBC to get them on the BBC news. The woman presenter was a wee bit flustered for a moment or two. Seems to me all SG spokespersons are being a wee bit tougher in their approach to the opposition and the BBC in interviews.
What about this in the Herald. We canny calibrate our own test equipment.
http://archive.is/GVaun
I have Celtic and Rangers supporting friends and family and there are many voting YES.
There are some absolutely atrocious cyclists out there – and I say that as someone who cycles to work every day. Many of your wannabe Bradley Wiggins types just have absolutely no consideration for other people – I’ve had several almost crash into me because they overtake other cyclists without ringing their bell, so you don’t know someone is behind you about to overtake.
But the thing is, it’s the same with everything. When driving last night, I had to swerve to avoid a motorcyclist who was overtaking traffic on Anderson Drive by being on the OUTSIDE, meaning he was actually in my lane, heading right for me. When cycling home from work, someone in a car just suddenly pulled into the road as if I wasn’t there (and I have lights and reflective clothing). On a dark shared cycle/pedestrian path, I almost ran over a dog because someone decided it was a great idea to walk their dog on a pitch-black path without a torch or reflective clothing, and couldn’t be arsed putting it on a lead. Dog walkers are the fucking worst, in fact.
The sad reality is it’s not cyclists who are arseholes, or car drivers, or dog walkers, or motorcyclists – it’s just that human beings are fucking selfish bastards.
I mean, let’s be honest, how many car drivers would pay any attention to one-way signs etc if they thought they could get away with ignoring them? How many car drivers think nothing of parking on double-yellow lines because they think *their* needs are more important than anyone else’s – even if those double yellow lines are on a bus lane or a cycle lane?
Everyone’s* an arsehole. It’s just that car driving arseholes have an incentive to temper it down somewhat. And quite rightly, to be honest – you’re not going to get killed by being hit by a cyclist, but you’re fucked if a tonne of metal hits you at 30mph.
(Not literally everyone, obviously…)
scottish_skier says:
Im with you on the religion stuff (All very British).
Strange night on the box last night –
STV –
Darling sets out blatant lie scenario (or slip of the tongue you take your pick) . ‘Independent Scotland will bring us VAT on fuel !’ This from a godlike moneyman ?
Goes completely unchallenged by J MacKay; dont think he’s up to the political interview stuff.
Tries to have a wee go at K Gibson but is put in place pretty quick on finance issues raised in economic papers .
BBC Scotland –
Brewer holds party with academic heroes (does not interupt) and talks crap about trains south of the border and runs out of time – how jolly and nice.
No political issues in central Scotland of a red nature then ?
I must say that the one thing that stands out for me watching that news footage of Better Together leafleting in Edinburgh is the fact that nobody came out from the shop and asked them to move away from it in case they put the customers off. Other posters on here will be familiar with this particular phenomenon when they try to leaflet for the Yes side. Can we deduce from this that Scotmid couldn’t care less either way, are actively pro-Union, or that it was just a stunt agreed with the shop ahead of time and the shop knew they’d only be there to make a short film?
Maybe somebody from the Yes side might want to try leafleting from right in front of the same Scotmid shop just to see what happens?
@Jeannie…
Scotmid is a Co-op, they fund the Labour party as well as finance them through the Co-operative Bank, directly funded Labour MPs are branded Co-op Labour, much BT leafletting throughout Scotland has been done on Co-op properties.
Robert Kerr says:
Now that most smart phones have cameras it would be a good idea to photograph as much BT and BBC activity on the streets as we can.
Careful though not to photograph strategic buildings or policemen.
Is it also a criminal offence to do so here in Scotland as it is in England and Wales?
Criminal Offence to film the police ? Don’t think so. If you are standing on a public highway and not interfering with anyone or causing an obstruction then you can film what you like.
That includes, politicians, the police, the pope, ally mccoist and elvis.
You may be questioned by the police or put off, but they can’t stop you.
If it was illegal, how do you think the whole Ian Tomlinson death came about ? – Footage from mobile phones. If it was illegal to photograph all these activities, then how on earth would tv news even exist ?
@Dcanmore:
Yeah they have the same arrangement in Dunoon at the local Co-op
Oh – and at the local secondary school (totally over run by Labour affiliate staff) is this the same in all local authorities ?
Its sort of like the Unite union link up with Labour (even when its sordid and all goes wrong nothing ever really happens) press not really interested.
The guy in the black top looks like Stuart Tooley, BT Edinburgh.
Im a Rangers supporing YES,my wife 2 children & my granddaughter[first time voter]will all be voting Yes.living in Glasgow like most families,we are a mix,religion does not come into the debate in my family.Niether does football the discussion in this family, is about whats best for all the people of Scotland.
Just do what we do and hold stalls outside Scot Mid Stores.
Just turn up and tell them that you are doing so.
You can always apply to local authority to hold stall on any location then store can’t complain or move you on providing you do not block access..
@callme dave.
Praise to the Herald for once. Note that we in Scotland are not permitted to pay for the breath alcohol equipment to be calibrated and certified by European Laboratories.
Again we are to chose “cock-up” not “conspiracy”.
No.
This is malicious and premeditated by the best brains in the civil service.
It is a game to them. Put one over on the stupid Scots.
It doesn’t matter whether you are paranoid or not if the bar-stewards really are after you.
OT
I see the planning application for the Electricity Substation to serve the Offshore Wind Farm on Donald Trumps doorstep has been rejected. Funny That!
Council Approve Golf Course in face of major environmental concerns
Trump flings as much muck as he can over Wind Farm at AS
Council approve substation plan
“Formartine Area Committee” now has put the stops on the infrastructure for the Wind Farm
BTW the Formartine Area Committee is led by an SNP councillor but I don’t know the rest of the make up of the panel.
Unfortunately another opportunity to let the Hairpiece have a voice
@ Another London Dividend
I didn’t bring up sectarianism. It was brought up in the video linked above.
@ Jammach
“Blanket smears”? I did no such thing! I merely recalled my own personal experience of growing up in Central Scotland.
@ Sneddon
“Broad brush statements”. See above reply to Jammach.
@ Scottish Skier
Feel free to introduce me to the lovely Amy ????
Re press TV Doc, No wonder the powers to be in the US/UK got it taken off air on the Sky platform. Cant have us watching balanced programing.
I used to watch Press TV all the time when it was on Sky, it was my preferred News station for watching International news. Honestly the stuff they broadcast which was of interest to UK viewers and was not even mentioned on the Beeb or ITV was astonishing.
I guess now I will have to start watching it again via the internet now that Ive given up my license an all.
I guess this has to be said, nobody who supports Yes and supports a free press should be paying their TV Licence. We must have a can pay wont pay campaign on the TV Licence. We helped In getting rid of the Poll Tax by a similar method, go on cancel your license, if enough of us do it the system will be swamped and it will make you feel a lot better.
Feel free to introduce me to the lovely Amy ????
About her singing flower of Scotland for the first time at Hampden (was used in the equal marriage video)
Nae cringe from Amy (love her trademark saltire mike).
An avid rangers fan and little doubt a Yes.
For some reason Mrs SS thinks I’ve nae chance so is ok with the love heart smileys 😉
While Theresa may is up here trying to scare the shit out of us, the US ambassador is also up here to tell us how angry America is with us. Some spook From St. Andrews uni. is pushing his scare stories (probably from his handlers in mi5/6) etc etc. Our great friends GCHQ CIA are the only spooks and nasties that appear to spy on us and wish us no good. There is a definite 5th column trying to undermine the truth and interfere in the democratic process in this country, and pretty nasty it is. The Television/press are the shop window of this undermining of truth and democracy. What a sick society. Better together! BETTER OUT OF IT!
I think the yes campaign are in the unfortunate position of being the side of the debate who are proposing the very thing the msm and the establishment don’t want … change. The hostility and bias experienced come as no surprise,and will continue right up until polling day. I have noticed a hardening of the line taken by the S.G spokespeople now in their dealings with the media. Although we are quite a broad and disparate group in terms of political beliefs, the S.N.P are the party of government and cannot be ignored in the same way as the rest of us. As the time gets nearer, the airtime given to them will be the best used in debunking the unionist myths, and pointing people away from the msm, and encouraging voters to visit sites such as wings.This campaign will be won via the internet.
As for that video with the knuckle-dragging rangers fans, they are no more representative of the Scottish general public than the Labour -backed sectarian no campaign in Coatbridge. As far as I’m concerned, the predetermined bigoted views of both sides of the sectarian divide, which put the orange order and the conservative party on the SAME SIDE as so-called Irish catholic and Scottish Labour voters are as illogical as they are outdated, and make me all the more determined to see an independent Scotland, so we can give these people and their children the benefit of a decent , modern education , not based on 300 year old prejudices, and help them to grow up in a decent , enlightened society.
FFS people when exactly is this going to sink in?
John McKay or Gordon Brewer or anyone else for that matter can’t stand up to folk like Darling and corresct their lies because if they do, they’ll end up making the tea for the runners on a 2 bit telly show.
That’s the weight of the union right there!
I don’t know what the answer to it is but slagging them iand accusing them of doing it willfuly is deffinately not.
Sadly I think Prof Curtice is correct. Yes need to find a way to counteract the unionist lies on TV. If they found an effective way then all Yes activists could go home and put their slippers on and await the inevitable landslide Yes vote.
It’s proven now that when people get the facts they swing to Yes with relative ease.
Yes need to find a way to counteract the unionist lies on TV. If they found an effective way then all Yes activists could go home and put their slippers on and await the inevitable landslide Yes vote.
And if my auntie had balls she’d be my uncle….
On STV last night
Nah – Darling should have been called out on that one (YES side would have been)
Its unprofessional & sloppy, why should we accept that ? If someones not up to the job or a patsy thats just not good enough.
(Allowing lies to perpetuate will not get the facts out as you say – and thats what is at the heart of it)
I’m still interested in the numbers. Has the BBC misrepresented Police Scotland by stating that they said only 8000 attended, when the 8000 figure was an estimate before the march occurred?
@Bubbles
It’s going to be interesting to see what those terrorism arrests were about at the weekend. Pro-Scottish terrorists? I expect if that were the case we’d have heard all about it by now.
Dissident Irish Republicanism.
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/oct/28/five-charged-terrorism-offences-scotland
My contribution…
The lady in the second photo looks like Yvette Fielding.
Alive and well and living in Kingsknowe.
(On HS2. Wrote some stuff about HS2 on my blog, the first comment was from some one trying to justify Scotland’s contribution to phases 1 & 2 – the bit solely in England – by saying Scottish travelers would benefit from time saved on those sections of track. To be fair, I didn’t know the new trains would continue on existing lines to Glasgow and Edinburgh. Still, £4 billionish for some new trains is a bit much. I said we might want our own transport hubs in Scotland as opposed to visitors being filtered through English ports.)
(On cyclists, what Doug Daniel said.)
(On the BBC/MSM – meh.)
Doug Daniel
Agree with what you say, mate. I’m not going to go on a lot about this topic, but seriously, in Edinburgh, I have no idea if it’s one of these things, where Edinburgh folk have such a great bus system, that a lot of folk don’t have cars.
But, then you let them loose on a bicycle, and because they have no real knowledge of the highway code; what they think is ok, is in fact, the opposite. Whether it is just plain ignorance, or down right stupidity (or both!), I have no idea.
At the end of the day, I could give countless tales of what I have seen. The craziest one was at the base of Dundas Street at one the main crossroads of lights. The lights went red, we all stopped, but this boy on his bike, just kept on cycling at a nice and steady pace…right through the lights and into the middle of the road where he almost caused a 3 car pile up (and his own death!). No one was injured, and no vehicles damaged, but the boy on the bike …oh! You should have heard the language hurled at him. Even my ears melted!
As both a car driver , and occasional cyclist, I can see both sides of this, many drivers see cyclists as fair game to be bullied and intimidated, however, living in rural Fife, we get more than our share of weekend militant lycra-warriors, who insist on riding two abreast, taking up more than their share of the road, and reveling in the fact they have a 600 yard tailback of frustrated motorists behind them. I admit it has been many years since I did a cycling proficiency test at school, but we were taught that this was both illegal and dangerous, has the law and the highway code been changed since I was a boy ?
@ Rabb
thats all very well and STV can do what they want but the BBC is a different beast. We are all shareholders.
Do none of you know the way film crews work? They would wait until they had a reasonable shot with a couple of people coming towards the leafletters before doing a take.
No need for some huge conspiracy, just the cameraman and unit director thinking a shot of someone standing there holding leaflets doing nothing was even less interesting than the actual shot they used…
“Do none of you know the way film crews work? They would wait until they had a reasonable shot with a couple of people coming towards the leafletters before doing a take.”
Yeah, of course they would. But the behaviour of the FOUR people who all apparently happened to come along within feet of each other on hundreds of yards of otherwise-deserted street was anything but normal.
O/T on the bike thing again – what is it about some car drivers and their odd attitude to cyclists. You have more than likely made the case that with independence we can be more like the Scandinavian countries. Well when we do become independent then you’d better be ready for a lot more money being spent on our cycling infrastructure and therefore a lot more bikes on the road. I’ve cycled in Denmark, Holland and Norway and compared to cycling in Scotland, its paradise. Mostly its because cyclists and motorists are seperated.
Cyclists holding cars up? I’ve been cycling for nearly 50 years and its cars that hold cars up. Cars take up around 4 times the space of one cyclist so more cyclists mean more room for you car drivers. I overtake loads of cars on the way into work.
Police confiscating bikes – ok if they do it to cars as well – speeding, red light jumping, sitting in cycle advance zones etc.
Lastly, as a cyclist I have as much right to use the road as you and definitely wouldn’t appreciate being shouted at for doing so. Well done for the seventy year old for shouting back – some other people may have been intimidated by that sort of bullying, aggressive behaviour.
James
Actually Derek Bateman has just posted something about this , in which he explains how its normally done. Also starts the item with a reference to WOS
His latest article ‘Bugger’n Borgen’ is an excellent insight
http://drderekbateman.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/buggern-borgen/
Good article, but I think he’s wrong on two counts. I suspect the BBC got involved in the BT exercise due to pressure from Labour politicians to provide “balance”, not because it thought of that for itself. I think it’s another example of Boothman being leaned on by his cronies.
I also think he’s wrong about us crying foul if BT had a huge rally, and the Yes side weren’t given a shout. Balance, as he said, occurs over time. You balance the big Yes rally by covering whatever BT see fit to promote as their big event when it happens, not by going to an obscure street corner to film a staged leafleting event. If No did have a big rally, the most I’d expect Yes to get would be a ten-second gripe from a spokesman. I wouldn’t carp at all if there was nothing.
And do we really think this is going to work the other way? Will the Yes side be phoned up to provide a staged Yes event if BT ever get round to holding a rally? Don’t hold your breath. It’s rather like being short-changed. When all the mistakes are in the cashier’s favour, you can’t help wondering.
Someone in the comments nailed it. It was all a contrived slant to portray the rally as Yes preaching to the converted, while No were out engaging with “real people”. As if Yes don’t engage with real people every day of the week. What, aren’t we allowed one day off to meet our mates and make merry? That’s perhaps the bigger underlying story and I hope Derek addresses it.
Now, if we could only show that the people taking the leaflets were actually BT activists themselves, which I suspect is the case, that would be quite tasty.
Oh yes, and Derek thinks that the BBC not re-showing the footage and not putting it on iPlayer shows they’re good guys who realise they made a mistake. He’s turning into the Three Wise Monkeys here.
re the scottish terrorists
stu ran a piece a few weeks ago about a mob in the gallowgate
regimental blues ring any bells
See PRESSTV of 18th Dec 2011
They’re debating Britain: Will Scots Voters bring an end to the UK
There’s a vox pop section and at about 10.24 minutes in they interview a ”man in the street” (looks like the street is in London-Whitehall or somewhere like that). I think he’s the same guy as the first guy appearing here in the parade in this BBC scam in Edinburgh!
We did some filming of a protest outside a store in central Glasgow, and although they complained about the anti store protest the police said no problem with us filming as long as we were not obstructing anyone.
The Scotmid scene shown here is obviously staged and quite badly so, not filmed by the beeb IMHO. We make Drop the Dead Donkey jokes a lot and this is a classic example, love it!
Notes! Filming in public transport buildings can cause you lots of hassle, ask permission you might need a permit! Tripods are a hazard! Be polite not everyone likes being filmed, some religious people for instance.
“The Scotmid scene shown here is obviously staged and quite badly so, not filmed by the beeb IMHO. We make Drop the Dead Donkey jokes a lot and this is a classic example, love it!”
The real reason the Scotmid event had to be staged was due to there being a large event in the city centre that the locals were attending. Thats the real reason the streets were empty 😉
😆
Better Togethers spin on the day of the march and rally was, they did not do speeches, they were out talking to the people, canvasing and leafleting the footage shown was used to reinforce their “message”
Just a point regarding logistics. Clearly the BT leafleting was a set-up. Why leaflet at Longstone which is nowhere near the centre of town? Simple – it’s on the west side of town, conveniently located between the end of the M8 and the town centre; and as they were there at around 1130 (according to one of the participants) there was plenty of time for the BBC to get their contrived BT footage before heading off to Calton Hill.
I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the leafleting was agreed and arranged at that place and time precisely so that the BBC could film them. Collusion, clearly.
And as for the BBC’s report of the march – it was all about “preaching to the converted”. Where was there any discussion of who was speaking, what groups were there – even that Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon spoke? That wasn’t even mentioned by the BBC. Shameful and disgraceful but typical unionist distortions and lies by omission – anything in fact to defraud the Scottish people and to retain power.
Just watched the footage.
It looks as if they waited for a crowd (of sorts.) The first guy won’t be so cheerful after a no vote when the van turns up to take him back to his country of birth.
The third chap (in the black top) I don’t think took the leaflets, which might be why they cut away.
I bet there were still more undecided’s either at or watching the rally than BT spoke to outside that coop. The reportage was shoddy.
Seems the Lab party pol of last night was not altogether full of “ordinary” people. the DM has an article about a couple of them pleading poverty and difficulty where none exists.
If this thing was not a set-up then we should alert anthropologists worldwide – PhD students will beat a path to Edinburgh to study these people who walk about in single-file.
If they can’t even manage to organise a fake TV piece the certainly couldn’t organise a pissup in a brewery! I’m thinking of buying a TV so that I can become a refusnik.
The only question now is how many other supposed random vox pops are actually random.I often wonder how Bbc Scot manage to find 3 English people in Argyle street to talk to but only one Scot when talking about independence.It’s odd as they make up only 8% of the Scottish population.What actually happens is that they interview 20 and pick out 3 that agree with their slant.It’s pretty obvious.It has my dad shouting at the Tv every night which is fun.
In the light of their reply to the FoI request, I particularly liked the bit of commentary by the BBC which accompanied their original broadcast where they talk about BT saying the Yes campaign should should be doing more to answer questions.
Get these Bullshit Broadcasting C*@#s to France. Nothing but propagada and paedophiles.