I think the Nazis are pretty good
If you’re trying to give someone an example of a terrible group of people from history, I think the Nazis are pretty good for that purpose. They fulfil the criterion excellently, what with all the invading and occupying and repression and genocidal murder and everything, and there’s very little ambiguity or any shades of grey about their evil.
Now, alert readers may have spotted that while the headline of this article is a genuine quote from the paragraph above, and could be technically correctly described as my words by someone with malicious and dishonest intent (something which does in fact happen regularly), it gives a highly misleading impression of what was really said.
And with that, welcome to the Scottish media.
Today’s Scotsman hilariously reports the production by Scottish Labour of a “secret dossier” containing the shock, hold-the-front-pages revelation that the SNP still want independence. We’re going to give you a moment to sit down and catch your breath after that one, because you’re probably stunned and reeling in surprise.
Ready?
Okay. The main “smoking gun” in the dossier comes from Paisley and Renfrewshire South candidate Mhairi Black, who’s quoted as saying:
And just like our headline here, strictly speaking they’re accurate quotes. But they’re rather less than the whole story, and in their incompleteness they deliberately create an impression that’s radically at odds with the truth.
They come from a 17-minute interview last November, which can be found in full on YouTube. But below we’ve pulled out the context of the key lines, which came in a 1m 45s section near the end.
And when you hear the bits that were left out, the story is very different. Everything in red below was cut out by Scottish Labour and the Scotsman.
GAYNOR PRESTON: The Holyrood elections are in 2016. Do you think if there’s a strong vote for the SNP […] do you think that that would then give a good opportunity for another referendum?
MHAIRI BLACK: It would certainly highlight the support for it, but I think it’s important to remember that the Scottish Parliament doesn’t have the power to hold a referendum. That’s what the Edinburgh Agreement was, it was the temporary transfer of that power, which just again highlights the problem that the Scottish people can’t actually choose to hold a referendum themselves.
Westminster are never going to give us a referendum, they will never do it willingly, ‘cos they expected that just to be a skoosh – they expected ‘Oh, don’t be daft, the Nationalists, let them have their wee referendum’. If you even look at English newspapers, they thought it was a done deal right up until that last wee bit when the Three Stooges came running up and suddenly panic set in.
So they’re never going to do it again, and they only way they WILL do it is if somebody’s twisting their arm, if somebody’s making life difficult for them. And that’s again why May is so important. The only way to beat first past the post is to unite the vote.
And if we can send back that many SNP – or pro-independence, but realistically that’s SNP – MPs to Westminster, that is the power to twist their arm and to get that other referendum, to hold them to account.”
What Black was saying, then, was that Westminster MPs are merely an insurance policy, a force which can try to implement the democratic will of the Scottish people, IF the Scottish people should at some point in the future elect a government with a mandate to pursue a second referendum via a manifesto pledge.
That’s a million miles away from saying “If you elect some SNP MPs in 2015, they’ll try to force a second referendum”. It’s a statement prefixed by a very big disclaimer, which the Scotsman has omitted in order to mislead. It even quotes Jim Murphy as saying the comments “were never meant to be seen by the public”, in which case having uploaded them to YouTube and left them there for the last six months was a pretty stupid plan.
(The other quotes in the “dossier” are pathetically limp, amounting to nothing more than various candidates saying “We still ultimately want independence”, which is about as much of a scoop as “EXCLUSIVE! UKIP EXPRESS NEGATIVE VIEWS ON IMMIGRATION”. It’s the Black one the media is focusing on.)
As ever, having filled in the blanks Scottish Labour and the Unionist media would rather you’d remained ignorant of, we’ll leave readers to draw their own conclusions about their motives, and whether they can be trusted.
I want to know when Jim, Ruth and Willie WOULD consider an second referendum to be legitimate. A senior Labour figure wanted to outlaw it completely. Numerous Tories have said that the matter was now settled “once and for all.” I think we’re entitled to know what our party “leaders” think about how democracy should work.
Radio 4 interview this morning also used this quote out of context. Ms Sturgeon chose not to challenge, which is clearly her preferred tactic for this and for Ian Hay. she may be right in taking that decision: but it really annoys me that they get away with this, nonetheless
Labour’s fabulous strategy of highlighting that the SNP hasn’t forgotten about the ultimate aim of independence appears to be …er… increasing support for the SNP. Does anyone at Labour HQ actually understand what is going on in Scotland?
The Scotsman is meant to be a more high brow paper than the Record, but it has plummeted to new depths of disgraceful “journalism.”
Meanwhile watching SkyNews and they are not broadcasting latest SNP surge in polls. I get the feeling they are all scared witless and in denial.
It’s amazing isn’t it. The more fear and loathing they try to create, the more determined people are to vote SNP. Nicola’s positive, progressive ideas are far more attractive than the ugly lies of the MSM.
See Scot Goes Pop intitial giddy publication of the TNS poll. SNP 54%, Labour 22%.
http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/it-snp-avalanche-sturgeon-party-leads.html
My take on the tosh – The Turd Man
http://logicsrock.blogspot.co.uk/2015/04/the-turd-man.html
Shit! I just told someone “I can’t stand the English Race, it’s cruel” – I was talking about the Grand National
And that is very crafty Stu. Your headline will be flooding twitter as we speak you evil cybernat!
As soon as i read that headline, Rev, i thought Oh you naughty boy,
with a wry smile on my face.
Did someone mention entrapment!
🙂
Does anyone actually read the Scotsman?I hope their sales carry on a downward trend,and I bet our East lothian candidate George Kerevan is glad to be out of there! (Doing a great job for The National though)
What a scoop for the Scotman,’SNP say they will NEVER call for another referendum’ would have been.
No no no…Yes, Aye you’re quite right about the Red Tories but you could have added that the ‘Hootsmon’s’ readership has taken a similar plunge.
Auld Rock
And the Scotsman can’t understand why its existence is ebbing away…
The Scotsman is editorially psychotic.
Scottish Labour and the Scottish media…trusted…? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!
And just what is it with Labour and their Dodgy Dossiers™?
I have just watched a Recording of an Interview with Noam Chomsky from 1988 where he speaks of intellectual self-defence. He says that no-one can do it alone, so thank you, Stu, and other like-minded bloggers, for keeping us fit for the lies and hidden agendas of whoever is pulling the strings of the puppets at WM and reporting those lies and smears in the newspapers and broadcast media.
Very clever Rev.
Mhairi Black very impressive on GMS. Knowledge, confidence and wisdom beyond her years.
Go on yersel Mhairi. Credit to the SNP and Scotland.
Have a laugh, apologies if it has already been shown.
(You’ll need the volume for this one)
😉
Scottish Labour 2015.
http://captiongenerator.com/37342/Scottish-Labour-2015
Been quiet for a while.. Gobsmacked, literally, by the base arguments being rolled out to the masses.
So long as we move forward as a movement, we can afford to keep ref2 at arms length
So long as we get stuck in we will maintain momentum
Once the campaigns are over… Reason.
There’s nothing they won’t try now, no smear is off limits, no rehashing of context is unacceptable, no lie is out of bounds.
It’s over and these are the last desperate attempts of McTernan et al with the totally complicit news outlets, to hold steady the remaining, rapidly vanishing Labour vote in Scotland.
The thing is, that this is their only hand. Do people not see that they are appealing to the lowest and most base of human instincts: the denigrating of others to maintain a false sense of importance or relevance?
They can’t block out the light, they can’t rise to the occasion, they can’t join in with any sense of hope for a different future, for the many.
They fiercely circle their own wee bit of ground and imagine that they are the victims and that they are the rightful heirs to the ‘higher’ ground.
The narrative has altered, irrevocably and for the good.
Those who do not embrace these changes, willingly, WILL suffer, not because of the changes, but because their pride will not allow them to see, truly, why the changes are absolutely necessary.
Jeez, I near s**t myself when I saw that article heading on Twitter, but, as usual, a brilliant dissection of the dishonesty endemic in the Media. Top work Stu.
O/T Fridays Counting House meet up. Looking forward to it, but not comfortable with the venue given the treatment meted out to Lesley Jarrett by another J D Wotherspoons pub in the vicinity. I think we need to – Very Politely – make our feelings known on this matter.
Hootsman’s got the fundamental right to print anything they like. BBC r4 Today show is publicly funded and this morning was just one more example of how a public broadcaster with extraordinary power can become a mere mouth piece for both red and blue Tories. All kinds of freaks and creeps work for and defend the BBC but why should you pay their wages, if you disagree with their UKOK propaganda?
Let’s face it, independence was a pretty scary prospect. Thus, fearmongering and negativity had a big influence at the referendum.
Electing an SNP MP isn’t particularly scary. Which is probably why, if the latest TNS Poll is correct, all the recent shite thrown our way is perhaps having an effect opposite to what the Unionists desire!
@ Stoker
That was a tonic!
Tomorrow’s proud scotchman-“Twisted Cybernat site loves the Nazis”
No problem with a second referendum because Westminster hasn’t kept the conditions of what they promised, therefor it’s invalid!
The press, never knowingly accurate.
To all you policy wonks reading this site (we know you do), take a hint. THIS is why you are about to have your collective arses handed to you. People are sick to fucking death of being mislead and manipulated to suit your agendas.
Tick tock.
as the topic is the media I wasn’t sure if I was reading the national or the daily record this morning just how national is the national just now? We have Mr Murphys mug 10 times the size on the opposite page from Nicola sturgeon maybe it’s just me but I don’t buy the national to see his face it’s on the TV daily and you would never have guessed the first minister was in Glasgow at the weekend no mention of it anywhere then the letters page this I have noticed recently been given over to quite a bit of criticism of the SNP government that’s fine we all need a different view and perspective on events but they only ever publish a few letters maybe six or seven so why the need to offer a platform to so many maybe my money is better directed to supporting Wings more often
Wingsoverscotland.com is filled with lies and absolute drivel… peddled by politicians and the MSM.
Incredible how easy it is and unfortunately there’s still a large part of the electorate that trust what the meeja tells them.
Websites like this are part of the reason that governments regardless of rosette colour are so keen to bring in increased censorship. I’m increasingly amazed that the MSM and their pals in the old political guard keep trying the same stuff despite the ease with which the smoke and bullsh*t gets blown away.
For years to come this site will be a perfect archive for anyone studying political spin and media manipulation.
Listening to our Joan of Arc this morning with Sir James Naughtie in dissing his rude questioning re Neil Hay and comments taken way out of ALL and ANY context etc. I think she was spot on in the way she handled it by effectively saying to him, ‘aye, very good, Jim. Is that the best you’ve got? We’ve had a lot worse than that. Try again maybe?’
I am reminded of the phrase, ‘all for the want of a nail’. Best not to get hung up on the small stuff.
@Stoker
The truer the material the funnier the satire is. That was really funny.
Stoker at 12.06
Between that and the polls i’m heading out wi a smile on my face and a spring in my step.
Heading to the local hub to see what work needs done. No slacking out there! 😉
@Debbiethebruce,
It does not matter whether real people read the Scotsman. The problem is that Murphy and Dugdale will repeat the allegations as “reported facts”, and the BBC, Record, Sun, et al. will turn them into “common knowledge”.
Excellent and worrying stuff. It highlights why some of us are still babes in the woods when it comes to media practices. Many still just believe what is written, because it is written.
Sorry for the above Auto-correct typo. It should of course read Lindsay Jarrett.
@Rev Stu:
“we’ll leave readers to draw their own conclusions about their motives, and whether they can be trusted.”
Yer kiddin’, I stopped trusting them sometime around 1968 – 1970.
I believe the correct term is quotemining, a common preserve of the intellectually dishonest.
Try to imagine what the opinion poll figures would be if we had a fair unbiased media.
Great stuff Rev – a perfect example of what the press has been doing forever.
One thing I am trying to work out this morning – when labour predicted the polls narrowing before the election, did they mean that the rate of SNP support increasing would slow and the rate of labour support decreasing would also slow? It would represent a narrowing if that were the case… but it’s a strange kind of narrowing taking place.
Maybe not what they had in mind.
I posted this earlier this morning on what may be a “dead thread” – I have reposted here, where it is equally relevant:
Many here keep surprising me with the apparent naivety being displayed. They claim to not understand why, for instance, the English press seem so active in going after the SNP and Labour. They believe it is “panic”, or that that they are afraid, and/or it is an attack on the will of the Scottish Voter, etc, etc.
As stated in previous threads, we are in an election campaign. And “campaign” is the operative word.
As always, the election will be decided, on 7th May, by 20%, or so, of floating voters. Most of those floaters don’t watch election debates, Andrew Marr, Daily Politics, Newsnight, etc, or understand (or care) about the nuances of a particular point scoring interchange on , say, Sunday Politics. They react to simple messages that get through to them over the campaign. All of the nationwide parties will be aiming their campaign at those floaters – and, importantly, the messages and “feelings” they take into the voting booth with them – that they will have formed in the final week of the campaign.
By then, In England, the messages that the Tories want to get through will include the following:
The message from the SNP is that the SNP will block any majority Tory vote in England and form an alliance with every fringe party (ex UKIP) to achieve the SNP goal.
Also, the SNP message is that they will “kingmake” Miliband – regardless of whether Labour are the largest party or whether the English vote for a Tory majority.
The SNP have said loud and clear that they don’t think the last government has borrowed enough, spent enough or taxed enough.
The SNP want to get rid of our nuclear deterrent.
The SNP will not allow an EU referendum.
The SNP want a bigger share of the UK “pot” for Scotland than they currently have.
The SNP will change all of the economic policies that have led to the UK having the fastest growing economy in the UK – and that has created more jobs than the rest of Europe put together.
The SNP want to break up the Union, regardless of the recent referendum result, and will do anything to achieve that aim.
The SNP don’t want to allow English votes for English Laws.
Most importantly, the main message is, if you vote Labour – then you will get all of the things described above.
Whilst many here may be appalled by the tone, or lack of depth, of some of those messages and you will argue, quite rightly, that you believe that you have the democratic right to pursue all of those objectives and policies – is there anything of any substance there that you would factually disagree with?
If the Tories can get those messages through to the floaters as simple bullet points in the last week of the campaign – then they can certainly be, once again, the biggest party in England. They might get themselves into a position to form a government with the Lib/Dems – and they might even get a majority of seats in Westminster if they can pull the UKIP vote back.
Far be it from me to tell the SNP how they should campaign – but countering those messages is the only way that they will end up in a position of influence in the next Parliament at Westminster. And, as I keep saying, another Tory-based Government gives the SNP the best chance of getting another referendum sooner – rather than later). And, maybe, if your propaganda is correct (rather than wishful thinking) you might carry a majority of Scots with you next time – although personally, I doubt it. If the SNP don’t get 50% of the popular vote in Scotland in the GE, even when Independence is not part of the manifesto, are you really, in your heart of hearts, confident of a Yes vote in another referendum soon?
I often hear, from non-English people, that the English don’t have a national identity or sense of Englishness – as opposed to Britishness. Do you still think that? Maybe we don’t wear kilts or play bagpipes but, when cornered, we will carefully and efficiently, look to take care of ourselves whilst also supporting the Union.
Scottish Labour @scottishlabour · 58 mins 58 minutes ago
.@JimForScotland: On the living wage, zero-hours & 50p tax rate the SNP voted against Labour. There’s nothing radical about the SNP.
Each time you look, the SLabour fraud farts along. Maybe these con artists justify it all because British politics has no moral core at all. You can say anything you UKOK like to the biggest audience because you can say anything you UKOK like.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/sunlab.jpg
@gus1940
Interesting to speculate. At present I think it is possible SNP would be doing worse, really. I get the impression that the sheer absurdity of media splashes, and the relentless negative stuff, is enhancing SNP support. Might be wrong, but it is certainly true that many people I speak to are annoyed, to put it mildly
Never in my lifetime would I think that the day would come where the SNP would have a 32 point lead in the polls. It’s amazing. Happy days. Some Murphy bounce this!
Fantastic quote from Peter Arnott on Bella ….
“Breaking Up Britain was always too big a job for Scotland. When you want a thing done properly, send for the Tories.”
…… given all the rubbish the Tories and their MSM running dogs are coming up with, that sounds sooooo true.
Is this one of those Magic Eye picture..im sure i can make out the image of Douglas Alexander shitting himself
Just announced on the Andrew Neil show, STV poll
Labour 22%
SNP. 54%
Projected SNP MPs 57 ????
I HATE THE SCOTS….(interrupted by shouty, creepy, irn-bru-swigging red tory)
YEAH, AS I WAS SAYING, I HATE THE SCOTSMAN NEWSPAPER.
@sensibledave
“economic policies that have led to the UK having the fastest growing economy in the UK”
Hands up to that one.
Mind you, the UK also has the slowest moving economy in the UK. 😉
Kenny said:
“I want to know when Jim, Ruth and Willie WOULD consider an second referendum to be legitimate.”
You are exactly right Kenny and we should be going on the offensive. We should be asking each of these “branch managers” what circumstances would make them support a new referendum. If the Tories dissolve Holyrood? If England votes to exit teh EU? If Westminster only allows ALL Scottish MPs to vote on matters it considers relevant to Scotland?
We need to know when they will stand up for our country and say “enough is enough” or will they forever want to be cannon-fodder for the Imperial army.
Tell us Jim, Ruth and Willie – is it Scotland or forever Britai?
@sensibledave
“economic policies that have led to the UK having the fastest growing economy in the UK”
And what about those policies which have led to Aston Villa having more Aston Villa supporters than any other team with the name “Aston Villa?”
What planet are people inhabiting when they think that they can rule out a referendum ‘forever’. So the Scots are to be prisoners of the British State? These people have a serious mental health problem – they seem to be genuinely deluded. Jack Straw is a good example.
The responses of Nicola to these types of comment are always calm, rational and effective. Other SNP representatives MUST learn from her. To explain is to excuse. We are absolutely committed to independence but we have no desire to impose independence on Scotland – end of. There are too many variables to be able to predict accurately how events will transpire. Our opponents are past masters at drawing genuine people into open ended discussion and then distorting what has been said. They think it is clever. It is OUR role, that is the people who read WOS and our other media, to be emotive – not the role of our representatives.
Having said the above, my thanks to WOS for taking steps to expose and diminish the efforts of the MSM to demonise our representatives.
What if I told you the Scotsman was the best newspaper in the whole wide world,would I be intentionally misleading you,misguiding you or blatantly lying ?.
Nice Poll 🙂
“You used to ride on a chrome horse with your diplomat
Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat
Ain’t it hard when you discover that
He really wasn’t where it’s at
After he took everything he could steal”
@Chic @ 12.57
… you got me! should have said “Europe”. Sorry.
I’m astonished and shocked at the SNP how can it be possible the people of Scotland are still having the wool pulled over their eyes by this thoroughly decent honest and hard working party who keeps putting Scotland first all the time
This is outrageous politics and totally against everything Britain believes in and it must stop
Mbwahahahaha
Jings ah still cannae mak ma mind up who tae vote fur
Never thought I would say this but, but, but “SensibleDave” has a point about the DON’T KNOW’s attitude about politics and the headline grabbing effect to DON’T KNOW AND DO NOT REALLY CARE.
haha 🙂 brilliantly put Stu i should not be laughing but its just the way you clearly explained this hehe 🙂
How good is that wee lassie Mhairi definitely one to keep our eye on she is going places (possible future FM of an independent Scotland ?)
Kenny-brilliant point! They should be asked just WHEN enough is enough and we are ahem..allowed a second vote? Go on the attack.
@sensibledave,
That is a telling phrase” The English people when cornered”.
You therefore think you are the ones on the defensive?.Welcome to the club mate.The Scottish people have felt that way for decades.and only now are turning to face the onslaught of the media and establishment sent against us.
This battle is not now over,Indeed ,it begins on election day.
We are rediscovering something we lost long ago.Our rights as sovereign citizens over our Kingdom.
Wish you could join the rediscovery,but you clearly have other allegiances.It is something truly worthwhile and inspirational.
The Scotchman, caught with their knickers down, exposing themselves. Well done Rev.
As for Mhairi Black, she really is a credit to our youth. The more I see her the more I like, she is great and our future is in safe hands. Look forward to seeing wee Duggie crying into his plate of porridge on 8th May.
@Stoker
That video was brilliant and sums up Labours plight in Scotland. We no longer take them seriously. They are washed up, on their way out and yet they carry on regardless.
“… it’s important to remember that the Scottish Parliament doesn’t have the power to hold a referendum. That’s what the Edinburgh Agreement was, it was the temporary transfer of that power, which just again highlights the problem that the Scottish people can’t actually choose to hold a referendum themselves.”
Westminster is not sovereign in Scotland. The People who live in Scotland are sovereign in their own land. If the Sovereign Scottish People want a referendum, they will have one. Westminster will surely try to block it, and may send in the Redcoats with their tanks as they they did in 1910, but they will not be able to withstand the civil disobedience that will be practised by the Scots. We will have a Gandhian revolution, and the result will be that Westminster will pull out its troops.
desimond says:@12:52 pm
“Is this one of those Magic Eye picture..im sure i can make out the image of Douglas Alexander shitting himself”
…. thanks a bunch! just sprayed coffee all over my screen
@Connor McEwen says:
27 April, 2015 at 1:32 pm
“Never thought I would say this but, but, but “SensibleDave” has a point about the DON’T KNOW’s attitude about politics and the headline grabbing effect to DON’T KNOW AND DO NOT REALLY CARE.”
Hopefully Connor the DON’T KNOWS and DON’T REALLY CARES, WON’T REALLY VOTE, that’s normally the case 🙂
@ Bill Steele.
I agree with your explanation of the constitutional position. However there is a second element, often missed in this discussion. We have no recognised mechanism for implementing the will of the sovereign people. It is a glaring omission, predicated on the union and the faults in its construction. The english do not have a sovereign people: in theory and in practice they have a sovereign parliament. Therefore the tension experienced in Scotland does not arise and we omitted to build in a mechanism to deal with that problem under our own constitutional principles. Thus the argument about who has the power has legs: not because I accept for one moment that Westminster is sovereign; but because we don’t have the requisite tools. That needs to change formally, IMO.
I heard some “expert” on the radio just now. He said that research shows that “don’t knows” break 2:1 in favour of the incumbent. If we accept that for the sake of argument, what difference would it make to the polls? Does anyone know?
O/T
I think this might amuse some of you
http://captiongenerator.com/37342/Scottish-Labour-2015
Fiona-not a ready made excuse for any “shocks” on the night was it? Hope not.
I live in Australia and worked in our MSM for twenty years,
for Rupert Murdoch actually. I’m confused, In Scotland you don’t seem to know the difference between publishing and distribution. For I can assure you that you have no Scottish MSM, but you do have English tripe distributed in Scotland. How could any Scot accept anything that comes out of England as credible. For a people described as deep thinkers and uncommonly intellectual it is baffling to think that they might.
“having uploaded them to YouTube and left them there for the last six months was a pretty stupid plan”. This is Jim Murphy we’re talking about. I think I can see the hole in your logic. He IS that stupid.
So if Scottish Labour are giving £1 million to Scottish food banks are English Labour going to give £10 million to English food banks in a reverse Barnett formula?
Haven’t heard any English ex-MP proclaim this, must have missed it I suppose.
Fiona
29% DK in Scot goes Pop, say 30%, 2/3 is 20% so an SNP lead of more than that means it is still a loss to SLAB.
Or have I oversimplified?
sensibledave
‘The SNP don’t want to allow English votes for English Laws.’
‘The SNP will change all of the economic policies …’
You don’t fancy clarifying these statements with SNP policy quotes? Ta
Apart from that and comments already been made can’t argue with much there bud.
Don’t you worry about us though. You and yours go and fill yer boots.
…just thinking back to that wee lickspittle of a man, naughtie – what he was saying effectively during that interview with the FM was just the same collection of fabricated non show-stoppers as we had all heard 8 months ago, ‘but you can’t tie your currency to the pound sterling,’ etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum
In short, it was all bollocks then and it’s all bollocks now.
Mine was a genuine question, Robert Kerr: I do not know how to do that calculation. It is certainly fairly easy to say that labour would get a boost of about 19% and SNP one of 10%. But I have the feeling it is not so simple, because the reported figures sum to 100% (that is of the already decided). So I think we cannot just add on.
I am not very good with numbers, and although I can get there in the end sometimes, I was hoping someone here would know the answer
I am also interested in what it would mean for seats, because I understand that in FPTP small changes in percentage vote can mean big differences in outcomes
Sorry Fiona,
Maybe some expert can help. Why don’t you contact James Kelly at Scot goes Pop?
“If you have any queries, or if you’d like to contribute to Scot Goes Pop, please contact me at: icehouse.250@gmail.com”
You can keep a dialogue personal and private till you are clear.
Robert Kerr says:
27 April, 2015 at 2:13 pm
Fiona
29% DK in Scot goes Pop, say 30%, 2/3 is 20% so an SNP lead of more than that means it is still a loss to SLAB.
Or have I oversimplified?
There’s also the fact that “don’t know”s disproportionately often don’t bother to vote, so the 29% as yet unknown will be significantly less. However, a few “already decided”s will actually change their mind between now and May 8th. Great fun, eh!
Now, Stu. You do realise that this article will now be cited by the papers, online trolls and other strangers to irony as “proof” that Wings (and therefore ALL “cybernats”) are Nazi sympathisers until Hell freezes over. It’s probably started already…
If you want to help Independence Live reach a wider audience then please help with our crowdfunder and share the link.
http://igg.me/at/goingforward/x/2910307
Greece was not subject to falling to the incumbent. I often worry about the softening up for the postal vote poll turnaround.
It’s ref2 same tactics as before.
Further to that, I suspect it might reduce the latest poll figure to
SNP 49%
Labour 33%
Putting current fig + 10% and 20% respectively into the top line and dividing by 129 then multiplying by 100.
Not sure if that is a fair way to do it, though
Stoker 12.06
Absolutely brilliant!
Rev,
have you seen that video? It’s an absolute cracker!
@tartanarse
Don’t get me wrong. In this situation I am not at all sure that research results in the past have much bearing at all. I am just curious about what effect it would have if it worked out that way.
I am mindful that there was indeed more support for No than the late polls suggested during the referendum. I am not great believer in polls, in any case. I just like to think about such things. Sad, really 😉
Unionist hearts have been set a flutter (or mebbes a fluter), across the sheugh as the penny has dropped with the Rednecks that Cameron’s EVEL plans will render DUP MP’s no more than second class members, which is exactly what Sinn Fein has been saying for yonks and that non-attendance is the only sensible response. Whatever sauce is served for the Scots goose will be ditto for the Nornirn gander as Cameron tells them to get stuffed.
Foie Gras anyone?
@Fiona @Robert Kerr
I suspect the idea that DKs are more likely to vote incumbent applies 2:1 when the two leading alternatives are close. When the polls now suggest SNP is double Labour, I just can’t believe DKs are a pool of Lab support just waiting to cause a significant swing.
I saw somewhere today that likelihood to vote was ~80% among SNP voters, ~70% among Lab, ~60% among don’t knows. Don’t quote me on the exact numbers! However, indications are that DKs have less impact because they stay DKs.
I do like the data which implies SNP voters are more likely to turn out. Would it be too much to hope this might show up as a swing TO SNP on the big day!? Or, perhaps it might cancel out any bias among DKs toward the incumbents?
All will be revealed in the early hours of Friday!
@ Robert Kerr
Good idea: posted my question on his public forum
I’m sure the title of this article will in no way be misrepresented by labour politicians. :p
James Dow says:at 2.09pm
How could any Scot accept anything that comes out of England as credible. For a people described as deep thinkers and uncommonly intellectual it is baffling to think that they might.
Yes it is baffling James.
Point is a during the ref a lot of people in Scotland woke up 🙂
Always thought that i was pretty clued up on what was going on but turned out i only knew the half of it. 😕
Of course there will still be a lot of people who will read this drivel every day and not question it. 🙁
Sometimes, I find some of this stuff really quite petty. But today, I just think: what bastards. I had genuinely thought Mhari had put her foot in it and was thinking “well, young student” etc.
Thank the stars you exist Stu!
Is there any point in reading newspapers or listening to TV or radio these days? I guess the non-political stuff might be true but for political news: total lying bastards.
Bitter blow to Fifers. 🙁
Fife-based paper maker Tullis Russell has gone into administration with the loss of 325 jobs, and putting a further 149 at risk.
Posted this on the wrong thread earlier.
O/T
Came across this on the Iplayer yesterday.
Gallipoli: BBC2 When Murdoch Went to War
Very interesting programme about Rupert Murdoch’s father Keith and his involvment in the campaign as a reporter.
It also shows the disgust he had at the British establishments treatment of their men and the Aussie soldiers.
It will be especially interesting for the guys who were discussing the subject on saturday.
I live in Wales but am English. I have followed Scottish politics for some time, but particularly since last September’s Referendum,
Discovering Wings Over Scotland and Bella Caledonia and others, has been like a breath of fresh air. I like the polemical, sensible and rational style, but most of all I enjoy the way you expose the sham journalism we have in the UK.
I wouldn’t dream of telling my fellow Scots how to conduct themselves, but I think you should be aware that the character assassinations on Nicola Sturgeon will only increase and become more flagrant. The polling stations must make sure they have an army of people over-seeing polling day because we know “dastardly” deeds have been done before.
Mostly though, if it gets serious, Ms Sturgeon needs to make sure she’s safe.
LIVE 7PM: INEOS(FRACKING) – Community Engagement Programme
Many more livestreams coming your way including 7th May when we will be at the Emirates – 7 Glasgow results.
http://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/FRACKING
I’m very surprised that this is still an issue. How many times has Nicola Sturgeon said it; even during the Leaders Debates that we have had, when the likes of Murphy, Rennie, Davidson, Farage, Miliband, Cameron have all demanded to know the SNP’s plans on another Referendum.
And each time, Nicola has stated, ‘It’s not for me to give it. That will be up to the people.’
These soan-soas know this. They know she is telling the truth. Nicola CANNOT make a promise for the entire Scottish people on the issue of Independence. It would be morally and ethically wrong, plus she does not have the authority to say ‘yea’ or ‘nay’ to it.
Sovereignty and authorisation lie with us …the Scottish people.
Nicola will get the authorisation from her SNP members. If all 100,000+ want it, and the mood of the nation indicates that there is an appetite for it, then she will take time to reflect on it before announcing her decision.
But for the Unionist leaders …they play a dangerous game; especially the Scottish ones. They know that half the nation is up for it. And because we can see them bullying her, that means half the nation has taken note …and it is remembered.
These people may have a lot to answer for in one year’s time…
LOL …and oh aye…
Rev …when I read that headline, for a moment, I groaned inside! I thought, ‘Oh God …what’s he saying that will have the media leaping up and down with sheer glee’
As they say ….’gonnae no dae that!’
@Fiona
I’d guess that reviewing all previous elections may cast some light onto which way undecided voters may go, this election however is unlike any previous election, in Scotland at least.
Guess we’ll just to wait on the polls closing and see how it goes when the votes are counted.
O/T
A former colleague just tweeted me about the Labour candidate in Stirling begging for Tory votes.
The link is – stirlingsnp.com/desperation/
Is this just happening in Stirling or is this a standard Labour letter?
Says it all though when Labour have to go begging their enemies for votes.
@tartanarse 2:33pm
The only way to gain any confidence in the postal vote outcome is for a very good sampling to take place at the count. If there is a wide variation from the sampling of the ballot boxes used on the 7th, then suspicions need to be raised.
From figures I’ve seen for my constituency, there will be just under 20% of all votes cast being postal ones.
I always worry about votes cast that can’t be monitored as they are cast.
My involvement at the PV opening and validation during the IndyRef certainly raised more questions than I could get answered.
The validation of the ENVELOPES is all that really takes place. They have the signature on them checked against the one that is on the PV register. If they are a close match (no idea what that REALLY means) the software accepts it and the date of birth of the individual is also checked. Again, if that is the same it gets passed as valid.
The ones that fail either, or both, of those checks are the ones that are manually checked later in the process. Remember, this is ONLY THE ENVELOPE that is being verified.
The fully verified envelopes are then opened by the staff and the contents extracted FACE DOWN (at least, that’s the requirement). If it’s done correctly it should not be possible to sample votes at this stage. If sampling is possible then the process needs to be halted and changes to the extraction methodology made.
The envelopes that fail verification are set aside and will be tallied as void.
Now, I have deep suspicions about anything that involves a software element to do any of the checking. How can I, you, or anyone, be wholly confident that the software doesn’t have a fiddle-factor in it somewhere? There doesn’t seem to be any part of the process that compares checksums of the software originally licensed to perform the task with that being used on the day. How do we know that there isn’t a part of the programming that allows a subset of barcoded envelopes to pass regardless of whether there is a valid comparison of signature and DoB?
The next step is to count the valid papers that have been extracted. That is done, again, face down in the machines.
I have no idea whether the machines can scan both sides of the ballot papers or just one. I have to trust that they can only scan the side that is presented for scanning.
The fact that Ruth Davidson managed to be so confident about the result at the IndyRef, before the polls had even closed, worried me. Draw your own conclusions.
I know, I know, put away yer tin-foil hat.
I think we are becoming pretty immune to it all. Scotland is not listening to them, they are mute to us. We need better politicians then this, we need better opposition which are working for Scotland too. That way we get a balance. Integrity seems to have got lost with all these spin masters.
Well done Stu
Labour have a knack of stating the bloody obvious
Labour’s Ed Balls lays out differences with SNP..
He said the SNP wanted “something fundamentally different” to Labour’s manifesto
Naw really..
🙁
How can they combine that with “vote for us or get the tories”? If what we want is “fundamentally different”, how could that possibly work, even on his planet?
Exactly Fiona.
If i tell you that Jim Murphy was standing next to ED (nodding as usual) when ED said it that then that really says it all.
And these clowns are asking us to vote for them!
Wee Alex
It is happening elsewhere, especially in the North East. I have friends and family in and the Liberals are greetin like gows for tactical votes.
Wee Alex
That should read Gordon. Jardine is crawling for tactical votes.
Graeme Doig at 2:17 pm
sensibledave
“You don’t fancy clarifying these statements with SNP policy quotes? Ta”
and
“Apart from that and comments already been made can’t argue with much there bud. Don’t you worry about us though. You and yours go and fill yer boots.”
Hi Graeme
Those two statements were not meant to be contentious. In other threads here I have been told that almost every subject has a potential impact on Scots hence the SNP having an interest (NHS, Eduation, etc) – and hence the objection to a general EVEL policy.
With respect to changing economic policies, the SNP will end “austerity” policies immediately, spend more, borrow more and put up taxes. Again, I understood that was generally accepted?
And I am not worried about the Scots generally speaking. If Labour are the biggest party (but with no majority) then with the devolved powers and the bargaining chips you will hold at Westminster then you will be fine. If the Conservatives form a government then you will continue to enjoy the benefits of the devolved powers and your “sharesies” through the Barnett formula – which will increase in value as the economy continues to recover and grow. Its a win/win for you.
Archiving has problems for me today. But the story in the Record about Jim Murphy standing for First Minister at Holyrood even if the voters don’t want him is written by John Dingwall — music editor????
No political commentators available?
Sensibledave 12.45
Did you know that for the first time ever,the UK gov included an estimate for economic activity involving drug dealing and prostitution in its GDP growth figures last year,therefore inflating GDP growth.
I’m not saying these activities should or shouldn’t be included,but the GDP growth figure is exaggerated by using a different base.
As you say though,this was just another campaign strategy by the incumbent govt.
O/t
More bad news for Fife.
Following hard on the heels of the Kirkcaldy Tesco closure and the earlier than expected loss of Longanet power station it has now been announced that Tullis Russell paper manufacturers at Glenrothes has been placed into administration.
Can’t post link but the news is on the BBC website.
Very, very bad news for this area
O/T
Jon snow tweets
https://twitter.com/jonsnowC4/status/592669729690628098
@frogesque
The Great Gordo looks like a spent force in saving things.
Bless!
@Jim Thomson
Jim you are incorrect when stating
“The next step is to count the valid papers that have been extracted. That is done, again, face down in the machines.
I have no idea whether the machines can scan both sides of the ballot papers or just one. I have to trust that they can only scan the side that is presented for scanning.”
The ballot papers are not scanned and are counted face down by humans in full view of those present. The so called “sampling” is done by those present and who are representing Wings, Tories, SNP whatever catching a glimpse of the paper when it is opened.
At the opening I was at the SNP rep was keeping a tally and even talked of it to the Wings guys. So it wasn’t just the Tories, this practice must have been going on for years and in my view is a complete waste of time.
Note again that the ballot papers were counted by people not machines and bundled with an elastic band around them in groups of 100 at the opening I was present at, other openings may have been different.
One thing though is certain, the votes as shown on the ballot papers were not scanned nor counted by machine. these votes would only be counted at the official count in your constituency after the polls had closed.
Disclaimer: At least not in my presence.
Aah, propaganda and lies.
http://www.atrueindependentscotland.com/tory-and-telegraph-propaganda-ripped-apart/
Nice job by Andrew Neil on Daily Politics, no less, in demolishing the Tory claims of having 5000 small businesses endorsing them (Telegraph story). List produced by Conservative HQ, names pulled out of the air by the sound of it!
Sorry if this has already been posted but Len McCluskey encouraging Labour to work with SNP http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2015/apr/27/len-mccluskey-says-prime-minister-ed-miliband-would-work-with-snp
Do the English media actually know that the referendum is past? Why do they want another, when they appeared to want to protect us so badly?
Message to them; the referendum is over. You won. Get over it.
… and while Jim Murphy is probably correct that the decline started way before he took over, let’s not forget the time he wasted thinking keepie up in a Scotland shirt and boozing at the fitba would turn things around ….. He squandered what little chance they had ….
sensibledave
That was “generally” a very disappointing response.
Cheers Dave
@Betty Boop
That link was really funny, it’s a must watch, Ta.
@Thepnr 4:01pm
Sorry, but I’m NOT “incorrect” (at least, in the room where I was monitoring).
I was at around 8 days’ worth of PV opening and verification. The process used in South Ayrshire was as I described.
If you check the official Electoral Commission rules (www.electionsscotland.info/emb/info/13/referendum/33/part_d_-_absent_voting) you’ll see that they should have been opened face down, with no opportunity to sample at that point.
Wherever you were doing it, they weren’t following the rules.
The rules for the GE are here: http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/175386/Part-D-Absent-voting.pdf and are pretty much the same.
[adjusts tin foil hat …]
That the SNP might still retain that aspiration, that hope that Scotland might re-join the league of nations is utterly stunning. I’m astonished! They are saying the dream will never die…Hell that might almost be a title for a book
Who would have thunk it*
* That Labour would scrape below the barrel in desperation that is.
@Jim Thomson
No tin foil hat needed 🙂
Seriously though is it true that the votes in your postal opening were counted and at the same time scanned by a computer?
It didn’t happen at the one I attended and surely that is a serious breech of the democratic process. The votes must be kept secret until the official count, surely.
I’m disgusted that there is not one method governing the postal voting system, scanning actual ballot papers is a big NO NO in my opinion. Surely not possible? I despair.
@sensibledave
Yes the ‘fastest growth’ rouse. What it means is the fastest growing private debt. When you have destroyed your industrial base, it comes down to creating housing bubbles and printing fiat money. What it creates is debt crises
@sensibledave says: 27 April, 2015 at 12:45 pm:
“Well, sensibledave, You can waste your time as much as you wish but you are not going to waste mine. One sentence was enough
bye!
Yes, Wee Dougie nae pals is clearly seen shit*ing himself.
I think the weasel is worried about getting carried off by one of the eagles above the Nazi symbol.
O/T
What was the name of the bloke who always played the baddie in the old war movies?
Gary
Hitler.
Gary
@Jim Thomson
Thanks for the link you provided. All ballot papers at the opening I attended were placed face down on the table in front of the person opening them. We do not disagree here.
Your link shows the procedure to be followed after opening:
Stage 3: opening of postal ballot paper envelopes
? Open the ballot paper envelope (envelope ‘A’) and remove the ballot paper ensuring the ballot paper is kept face down at all times.
? Check the number on the ballot paper envelope (envelope ‘A’) matchesthe number on the back of the ballot paper.
? Place the ballot paper in the postal ballot box.
I do not see anything relating to scanning of the ballot paper before placing them in a ballot box. If the ballots were scanned in your constituency I believe it is they who got it wrong.
It’s obvious, if you can scan the actual votes then someone somewhere would have that information. It didn’t happen where I was and if you saw that happening in your area I think you aught to take that further.
No one is legally allowed to see the result of the postal votes. Those attempting to do so are breaking the law. No?
Very interesting read from the Ashcroft focus groups in Scotland.
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/ashcroft-national-poll-con-36-lab-30-lib-dem-9-ukip-11-green-7/
A significant and substantial SNP lead in Scotland proffers big Brian (political correspondent) for the BBC Scotland. Aye right!
Funny old BBC world, it must be catching…’The death star’ spanking new hospital, on time and within the construction budget admits(good word that) BBC health correspondent Eleanor but lacks car parking!… FGS! They just can’t help it.
Nicola today making pancakes..Reeval for the BBC suggests “Jam tomorrow” and so it goes.
First thing on the agenda in a talk with Ed, some control of broadcasting in Scotland.
@Thepnr 4:43pm
I wish I’d NEVER cleared all my sodding cookies on this PC … now got the “it takes ages” issue
Anyway, no, just to clarify, the votes were NOT counted in terms of which way everyone voted. They were counted in terms of total number of ballots processed.
That’s much the same as the people at the polling stations scoring off those who have voted and then those numbers counted at the end of the day. Just a tally of total votes cast.
[I’m quite liking the way this tin hat sits at a jaunty angle btw …]
Crafty sod. Hahaha! Love it.
@Gary45%
Maximilian Schell?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_Schell
@ Jim T and thepnr
I attended postal vote sessions in Kilmarnock. I was told that the 3 Ayrshire councils had jointly purchased the system which scanned the signatures and dates of birth. That doesn’t mean there was no scope for local variation in how it was used, of course, but in East Ayrshire it was operated by an employee of the company from which it was leased (I assume the machine didn’t actually belong to the councils, since they don’t need it very often), not by anyone from the council.
The machine was only used for this purpose; none of the ballots was scanned, and they were opened (after checking that the number on the envelope matched that on the statement if the latter was detached) by hand and then the ballots were extracted and counted by hand (numbers checked again to make sure envelope and ballot matched; I was told that sometimes two people at the same address sign the right envelopes but put the ballot papers into the wrong ones – if they can be re-paired both would be counted as valid, whereas signing each other’s statements invalidated both. I saw examples of the latter, sadly, but none of the former).
Procedure at South Ayrshire is clearly different; maybe the rules need to be more explicit.
Interesting article by Lord Ashcroft Polls website and the Focus groups in Scotland:
http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2015/04/ashcroft-national-poll-con-36-lab-30-lib-dem-9-ukip-11-green-7/#more-11435
p.s. – I recall last year that people were able to contact their councils to find out whether their PV had been received.
So there is a step in the process where the numbers on the envelopes which have been returned are recorded; it will be known who has voted and what percentage of PVs issued that equates to. Presumably (!) there is a check performed to make sure that all the votes returned are duly processed and counted.
Gary45% says:
27 April, 2015 at 4:54 pm
Yes, Wee Dougie nae pals is clearly seen shit*ing himself.
I think the weasel is worried about getting carried off by one of the eagles above the Nazi symbol.
What scares wee Dougie even more than the loss of prestige and a very nice little earner, is the horrific possibility of His Magnificence losing a contest to a 20 year old (aaagghh) female (aaaghhhh) student (aaaggghhhhhhhhhhh). Ohhhh the shame!
@Chic McGregor says: 27 April, 2015 at 12:57 pm:
“Mind you, the UK also has the slowest moving economy in the UK. 😉
These numptie are incredible, Chic. I don’t suppose it ever enters their brain-cell that there has just been a Rich-list published. Here’s a clip from a well known English deadtree press outlet : –
That, near as dammit, is 2.2 times up in a year. No prizes for figuring out how these, mainly useless, people manage to grow such vast wealth while the fastest growing industry in the, so called, United Kingdom, is Food Banks.
This while we are told by the highest elected government Minister in the de facto parliament of England, “We are all in this together”.
Obviously, as just one group of people are getting poorer, (The most vulnerable in the land), it an only be from them the wealth is coming from. Unless, of course the rich have taken to printing their own money.
@ Robert Peffers
…. only trying to help you understand us Robert – because, many here appear not to have a clue. If SNP types continue to construe current events as either panic or fear from us softies down south then you will make bad judgements based upon wrong information.
@crazycat 5:13pm
You would have seen exactly the same process in that case. I haven’t described every wee bit of what went on, that would take far too long.
The company that ran the process (I believe) owned the system used and operated it too. They normally had at least one person, and sometimes three people, wandering around and doing “technical stuff”.
I witnessed the mixed up envelope thing on a couple of occasions, along with some other weird contents appearing, and it was all handled professionally and in full view of the observers.
I’ve just had notice that I’ll be attending the PV opening from tomorrow again, so I’d better have a look at the “rules” again.
Had to go out to renew some medication. First thing on returning home was turn on Radio Scotland news. Heard this headline : –
“Labour Lays out differences with SNP”.
I’ve not stopped laughing since for my immediate thought was: –
“Strange they couldn’t tell us their differences with the Tories”.
O/T
Just received this as I queried the ‘sampling’ process…
Update what I told you earlier was wrong. I got this clarity from the Returning Officer:
Sampling is not permitted
I also asked about exit polls and here is the reply I got…
Regarding exit polls Nana as a party we don’t do them as highland folk don’t seem to respond well to being asked who they voted for!
as you can see it specifically mentions highland folk so it may be different elsewhere.
Independence for England would be a good thing
They should definitely go for it
@ Jim.
When the “opportunistic sampling” was witnessed at NLC by the Wings Postal voting officer, as well as reporting it to the Deputy Counting officer, I contacted all the Wings Referendum agents I knew at the time.
We were all aware of the “requirement for secrecy” which had been signed by each person witnessing the opening. It seems like a “Spanish Custom” had developed over the years with the postal voting agents enthusiastically “sampling” as much as they could, and the counting managers turning a blind eye.
My stance on it was that it was not legal and therefore should be stopped immediately. Not shared by some of the other agents though who felt that no harm could be done.
Matter reported by us to the Police.
O/T
Fiona-are you coming to the Counting House on Friday? Both Morag & I will be there so you won’t be on your own.
@sensibledave
Ahhw ye poor soul. Don’t feel you need to look after us
“many here appear not to have a clue”
A wee song, my gift from me to you. Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrxX9TBj2zY
@sensibledave.
I think we understand the system well enough
Do not particularly feel that understanding YOU is relevant in any event.
Previously posted but for those who missed it, I challenge you not to laugh. ( appreciation to original poster )
http://captiongenerator.com/37342/Scottish-Labour-2015
O/T
How some people see Jim.
http://i.imgur.com/lmZH5Oe.jpg
Eleanor Bradford introduces Glasgows new Super Hospital as “The Death Star”
She must have been raging at all the patients praises!
I see Gary Gibbon of Channel 4 has said SLAB are focusing on 12-15 seats they think they can win/retain.
Just read the Ashcroft Scottish Focus Group article, none of the ex-Lab supporters they spoke to want another indy ref, because of the ‘uncertainty’. Apparently being ruled over by politicians we didn’t vote for is the kind of certainty Scotland really needs.
@ Nana
I posted a lengthy reply to you on the “bonfire of policies” thread, after most people had moved on to this one, and there has been further discussion above.
I’m still worried that some of the people who seemed to be planning to take their postal ballot papers to the polling station (to fill in there) might end up disqualifying themselves, so I added a bit about that in the hope that it would be seen.
O/T Reporting Scotland has a somewhat boring health reporter called Eleanor Bradford.
She perhaps has been advised to make her reports more interesting with greater human concerns and interest SO reporting on the opening of a wonderful hospital in Glasgow she recites the alleged local nickname for the building as “The Death Star” and she obviously likes the sound of that as she gives it repetition.
A wee whisper in her ear “Ill people should not be reminded of death as it generally aggravates their condition” What a dreadful person she is.
@gerry parker
“Matter reported by us to the Police.”
Yes, I remember that as I was there when we got the text. I totally agreed with your stance. We were “new” Wingers that is, the old hands were the ones trying to sample.
I think most if not all wings representatives just wanted to ensure everything was above board.
For me it was, what may have happened outwith my presence I obviously cannot account for.
@lollysmum
Don’t think I will be there. I am sure you will have a great night, though. Enjoy, everyone
ukips scottish mep on reporting scotland just now. Cunt.
Stephen.
Just a bit worried since the postal vote thing in the referendum. Joseph Stalin once said: Its not the votes that count, its who counts the votes
I’m glad I missed the news tonight…
OT: I was curious to see what the PPB was on tonight at 7:25pm tonight on BBC1 Scotland. It’s happened the Red and Blue Tories have merged their Party Political Broadcast, Next step is grand coalition :- https://twitter.com/src19/status/592751557655011329
Jackie Bird giving Coburn an easy time. Lets him away with saying our block grant may not be cut with UKIP proposals. Totally at odds with Farage ” we will cut the amount of money sent over Hadrian’s wall” remember the sneering she gave Alex Salmond. What a hopeless interviewer she is.
Received my first Ukip flier from my local Ukip candidate, Mr Otto Inglis.
Among promises he cannot guarantee to keep he states:
“I will stop the SNP ripping our country apart and turning friends and family into foreigners.”
I really despise a fool called Otto, candidate for a pseudo political party based in England, telling me the one Scottish party dedicated to gaining power for all its citizens is causing them to become foreigners in the process.
BBC 1 Scotland 1930 – Interview with Nicola Sturgeon
.
Jim Thomson says:
Do you know what company does own the system?, a Government one maybe?
That would answer a lot.
@ Bob Mack
Ah, the wall. Great song, great band. Coincidentally, sort of, The Proclaimers are all over the media down here at the mo’ publicising their new album – good stuff too from what I’ve heard so far.
@Les Wilson
Really can’t recall. I’m almost 100% sure they were a private IT lot and not a “government” outfit.
From what I can recall they were one of several companies that had competed for the contract with their own proprietary systems. Other areas picked different companies.
C4 news really sticking the boot in there with their chief politics shill explaining SNP have nasty elements right up to Sturgeon and why won’t she sort it out.
And that nasty element is the SNP candidate that retweeted BBCScotlandshire years ago. C4 no better than BBC, except they’re public service broadcasters funded by adverts.
http://wingsoverscotland.com/a-serious-case-of-hypocrisy/
C4, a truly disgusting outfit or absolutely marvelous. Its up to Scotland May 7.
I guess you’re all busy watching the Nicola interview on the state propaganda broadcaster, but there are a couple of good livestreams tonight too:
@DemocracyTV livestreaming the Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk hustings ON NOW http://tinyurl.com/qd52d3g
and
@LiveIndependence broadcasting INEOS – Community Engagement Progamme fracking questions discussed http://tinyurl.com/k73padw
Nicola doing well with the Evan Davis interview. Evan does have a much more open style, and at least allows time for a response.
Hope folk in the south are watching.
Sturgeon working hard on BBC1 interview in spite of the constant interruptions…now having to explain the biggest party doesn’t have the right to govern…doh!
She’s doing all right. More interruptions…treading treacle time.
It’s education and missionary work here good listening for the voters down South though. FGS! more interruptions!!!
Get him telt, you have a right to finish a sentence.
O/T Just saw a trail for a C4 program.
“VE Day, when the queen went out to party with her people. ”
I nearly chucked something at the telly. I am NOT ‘her’ people.
Evan Davis silly questions now. Sturgeon has done very well with straight answers and will have impressed many watchers in Scotland and South of the borders too who were not aware of her before.
Another +1% on SNP in the next polls. Excellent. 🙂
In case some have missed it here is the TNS poll published today
Scottish voting intentions for the May 2015 UK general election (TNS, 1st-19th April) :
SNP 54% (+2)
Labour 22% (-2)
Conservatives 13% (n/c)
Liberal Democrats 6% (n/c)
Greens 2% (-1)
UKIP 2% (+1)
Evan Davis constant interruptions is kind of his style, does in most interviews I think. He certainly gave Farage a much tougher time than NS.
I dunno, I am biased, bit she is good, isn’t she?
I think she had him eating out of her hand.
No matter who the companies were that supplied the equipment and the software to check the signatures and DOB from Envelope B.
They had no access to the FUCKING votes, they were NOT scanned.
The result was 55/45 FFS maybe we can do better now in this election. I’d suggest you focus on this and next years election rather than what’s already past and that WE CANNOT CHANGE.
Forget the past, look to the future. If you personally, whoever you are feel concerned enough then you can contact you local constituency election officer and request a place as an independent observer.
I hope that some will and if you do please tell us on here how it went.
@James123
it’s difficult to give someone a hard time when they give straight, unambiguous, answers I suppose.
‘the gross national product…counts special locks for our doors and the jails for people who break them../counts napalm, nuclear warheads, and armoured cars for the police to fight riots in our cities…Yet (it) does not allow for the health of our children, the quality of their education …the intelligence of our public debate or the integrity of our public officials. It measures neither our wit nor our courage;neither our wisdom nor our learning; neither our compassion nor our devotion to our country;it measures everything, in short, except that which makes life worthwhile’
Senator Robert Kennedy 1968- critising the fetishisation of economic growth.
We have another narrative now that is countering the distorted communication emanating from the unionist camp and has weakened (in time, fatally) the state machinery-the denial of the aspiration of a whole section of the population is no longer anonymous or depoliticised and WM will be held accountable.
They are having a crisis of legitimisation- the YES movement is thriving, strengthened, rationalised, universal and integrated- in short a democratic movement that is unstoppable.
@Thepnr
At no time did I say they had access to the votes.
I said that I did not know if the machines were capable of double sided scanning.
The voting papers were scanned to check the barcodes on the rear so that the batches/individual papers could be recovered at some future point should the need to remove the paper(s) for any valid reason.
That also involved counting the papers NOT the votes. That was part of the scanning process and was recorded on batch header sheets that wrapped each set of papers.
My only concern was that there is no way that even informed observers could verify that the software used was 100% flawless and tamperproof.
Chill.
Prof Curtice poll of polls has SNP on 50% now.
Did anyone else get an email from the creepster begging for money today? And if you did,how much did you send him? Silly bugger should have saved some of that million quid he claimed in expenses.
Eleanor Bradford, the woman is an arse, she’ll be going through the bins next.
Och Dung Baby
They are selective in what they see and what they report , wankers the lot of them.
@Fiona says: 27 April, 2015 at 2:01 pm
“I agree with your explanation of the constitutional position. However there is a second element, often missed in this discussion.”
How about us cutting to the real big glaring fault with the constitutional position, Fiona?
Fact is The Treaty of Union wouldn’t pass as legal under modern law in either Scottish or English law. However, if we accept we are in a union then we must ask ourselves some simple questions. We must ask what it was we signed up to be a partner in? The answer is we signed up to be an equally sovereign partner in a United Kingdom.
So why are we now a subservient country accepting devolved powers from another countries parliament?
It really is as simple as that the real setup now is that West minster is the parliament of the country of England lording it over Wales, N.I. and Scotland and calling itself the United Kingdom Parliament. It is just about to now debar the erstwhile partner kingdom, Scotland, from voting on matters the parliament of England claims are its own.
I’ve said it since devolution was first mooted – It must intimately fail unless it remains either : –
One: A bipartite union of Kingdoms (devolve or not), that has two equal devolved parliaments.
Two: A quadratic union of four equal countries with four equal parliaments.
In either case the top ministers of the equal parliaments meet as equals as an upper house.
We are now about to either see the union disunite or be relegated to Scotland becoming an integral part of the country of England. I, for one, cannot accept that.
Nicola just said tonight, on national TV, the SNP will not ask for another referendum unless the people of Scotland ask for one.
Please, First Minister, can we have a referendum now?
Jim
Got it, eventually. Cheers. It’s good to talk, that’s how we resolve things and iron out the differences. Would be good to think that the politicians we elect would do the same.
No worries Alex.
It’s a complicated process at the best of times. Looking at the rules for this GE wrt management of PVs, I’ll be far better informed when it come to any need to challenge the senior staff.
All boxes to be sealed when leaving the room.
Did you know that observers should also be able to witness the original sending out of the PVs as well? That didn’t seem to be communicated at all.
Serious question –
Why does it take a Channel 4 reporter Alex Thomson – to land a decent clear embarrassing hit in Jim Murphy ‘over zero hrs contracts’ ? Too close to home camp ?
Come on Scottish Journos – catch up with the news or you will be left behind forever !
Shameful
Nobody is suggesting that there was any interference with the postal ballots at the count across Scotland.
Any interference would have been coordinated elsewhere and would have been much more sophisticated than relying on large scale unreliable fiddling at local areas.
Nobody has explained how you can achieve an impossible 95% plus take-up on postal ballots which apparently was achieved in many Scottish districts and why the larger the postal ballot the larger the NO vote ‘particularly in many areas in which our huge canvas in contrast had shown doing very well indeed
@ Robert Peffer
Don’t think we disagree, much
But the fact is that it would have been much harder to subsume Scotland in practice if the treaty of union had formally included a mechanism whereby the sovereignty of the people could be expressed.
We are where we are, and to me that is an omission which must be rectified as quickly as possible. Two equal parliaments is not what I want at all: I want practical measures to make the people sovereign and I don’t care at all for two equal parliaments on the Wesminster model.
We are not going to get independence at present. But we could at least seek a constitutional means of operationalising the sovereignty of the people. Else we will have no means of demonstrating, in an unarguable way, that the people are actually demanding independence, at some point in the future.
I thought Nicola was great and Evan Davis was fine as well.
It was not the normal BBC PQ sneery attitude to SNP politicians.
So a note for future BBC Scotland interviewers…
Treat your First Minister with some RESPECT!
Soon over 50% of the population are going to vote for her party in a General election.
You, BBC local Scottish branch, as an organisation may not like the SNP but you have to respect the leader of YOUR country.
A Billion pound state of the art show piece hospital opens in Glasgow and hardly a whimper from the media. Funded by the Scottish Government and not a penny of PFI or private funding. Shameless political non reporting.
O/T
I’ve just done a search on the Ron Paul Institute website ( http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/ ) for “Scottish Referendum”. I get a “not found” page when I click on one of the two links to an article dated 28 Sept 2014.
If I then go to the home page, scroll down and look at the archive listing, there’s nothing past August for 2014. 2015 seems fine.
Not checked to see if Stu’s already archived a copy right enough.
re the uptake of postal votes – early on the MSM were spreading obnoxious lies about the Yes side, I think many no voters were scared into voting by post so as not to run a non-existant gauntlet at the polling station.
@Fred,
quite shocking – who in their right mind would call a brand new hospital the “Death Star”.
I am sure the people of Glasgow will take this hospital to their hearts and it will become a cherished institution.
Eleanor Bradford – I hope you are fired after the 8th of May – you deserve to be – a truly obnoxious person.
Tonight’s interview was good.
He asked questions.
She answered.
He listened.
There were interjections by both.
And so on.
Get a fucking grip with all those conspiracy theories about postal votes yes some are bogus but in a GE It won’t make a difference don’t you think the Ek thought that All through and covered all bases. At the Ref. ballot
We lost because not enough voted yes it’s really that quite simple . Fortunately for the 45 a lot of voters have realised their mistake and are about to ger sweet revenge so save your time and energy about postal votes , just sit bac and relax and watch the wall crumble
Okay I have a question.
I watched Sky News earlier and it credited the Tories with having produced a list of 5 thousand small businesses that allegedly support their policies and advocate against a change of government. I’m pretty sure radio 4 news did the same at 7pm although I’m not certain.
Now, I just watched daily politics on iPlayer and Andrew Neil gets tore into the Tories on the basis that the list in his words was a botched political stunt; he said it wasn’t bonafide, and suggested it was a fraud put together by Tory HQ — he satisfactorily proved this last point with reference to tags (metadata) that gave the show away.
In my opinion that’s pretty damning stuff but Andrew Neil and his guests which included a Tory all had a good old laugh about it all. Can you imagine the reaction and seriousness with which the Scottish media in particular would treat such blunder and fraud if it was the SNP?
But my question is this. Why isn’t the Labour Party making more of something like that? It’s a gift. Andrew Neil read out letters of complaint from a few people who denied signing the letter and who were demanding that their names be removed. And many other signatories didn’t even own or even partially own businesses as the letter more than implies.
And, as I said, Sky news carries it in the headlines as if it’s real with no mention of the clear fraudulence involved etc that Neil pointed to.
Part One
Robert Peffers says:
“Unless, of course the rich have taken to printing their own money.”
That is exactly what they do: they get their pals in the bank of England to print money out of thin air. Or better still get the BOE to just give it to one of their private banks who the, using fractional reserve banking, print out of thin air £60 for every £1 they are given from BOE (now been reduced to a “safe” level of £25 for every £1).
This is the process of why the rich get richer and the poor poorer:
1/ INFLATION is caused by printing money. Inflation increase the cost of most things you need to live on. As a proportion of income this inflation hits the very poorest.
2/ Inflation DECREASES the wages of workers and decreases theirs and any pensioner savings. That is why we are now seeing the working poor.
3/ INFLATION INCREASES ASSET PRICES. Poor people generally dont own assets. Therefore it is ONLY the rich that get this increase. BUT here is the key……asset prices are LEVERED to inflation…. so if inflation goes up 5% the assets can go up 10% or more.
That is why the rich can do the magic trick of getting richer by NOT working.
to be continued
# Famous 15
I asked my mum’s carer if she had heard of people referring to the new hospital as the ‘Death Star’? She told me no, and she knows everybody. It was the first time I had heard it as that. Don’t know why she had to say that the £1 billion hospital was built in the deprived area of Govan. BBC Scotland at Pacific Quay is in the same deprived constituency. That’s some area of deprivation.
@Realist 9.29pm
If we sit back and relax, we’ll allow the other side to slip through the gap. That’s why thousands of us are out there slogging our guts out chapping doors and leafleting, and we will be on duty all the way through polling day, acting as polling agents, knocking up the vote and giving lifts to voters. Not to mention following the ballot boxes to the count and monitoring the actual count itself.
You relax if you want – just don’t take any credit for our success afterwards.
@Hoss Mackintosh
“Eleanor Bradford – I hope you are fired after the 8th of May”
Yes, me too.
On January 14, Catalonia’s centrist President Artur Mas announced an agreement with his nationalist rivals, Esquerra Republicana (ERC), to run separate tickets but with a shared road map towards secession, making September’s vote a de facto referendum on leaving Spain.
Amazing since independence is such a key topic in Scotland that we hear nothing of what is happening in Spain. A complete media blackout. I wonder why?
Worth tracking Catalonia’s progress. Similar issues, similar reasons.
I’d be wary about getting too exited by recent poll. Suspicious that it’s taken so long to come out, there could be something less good coming up and it’ll allow people to say support is slipping. I.e due to Gordon etc etc… Also these kind of numbers might also lead to complacency and hubris. We need to keep the pressure on, keep doing what we’re doing and make sure we vote and make sure like minded friends vote. Every vote in every seat will count. I must say NS was excellent on TV tonight especially answering the Wales v England football question, great stuff.
ALERT – radio 4 advert promoting 10 O clock news discussing ‘grand coalition’ as best solution to WM projected results
mr thms says:
# Famous 15
Was thinking exact same thoughts about Bradfords unfortunate Death Star ref – possible Labour circles gag ??
How do we complain about this – its a step too far !
Nicola Sturgeon does not speak for Scotland
Now I keep hearing wee Babe Ruth banging on into this phrase
Wee Willie Rennie uses it constantly
Dippity Dug, well she says whatever she’s told to say i suppose
Thing is Nicola is the First Minister so if she doesn’t speak for Scotland who does?
I’t can’t possibly be David Cameron who even in his own country polls badly and only has 1 representative in Scotland
I understand it’s a campaign tactic by the opposition to undermine our first Minister but it seems to me a silly tactic when you consider if David Cameron gets his way there will be no UK Parliament because he’s about to make it an English Parliament which if he wins the Election will surely just make him Prime Minister of England
I don’t get it does this mean two elections one for England and one for UK
However i’m confusing myself now when what I mean is if I say Nicola Sturgeon speaks for me and others feel the same way and we end up the majority does that not satisfy wee Ruthies criteria for Speakyness coz that’s what i thought democracy was
Until we’re not happy that is and we choose another to speak for us
Except for David Cameron, who I don’t know what his job is or which country he even represents and i don’t choose him anyway
I just realised that was a ramble into a brainless void there and I apologise
I’m away for an aspirin
@Fiona says: 27 April, 2015 at 9:05 pm:
“Don’t think we disagree, much”
Indeed so. I’m 100% for total independence and always have been. The point I’m attempting to make is that the Treaty of Union was never a mutually agreed treaty in the first place. It was engineered by the Establishment.
The Establishment, as The Kingdom of England has always had its sights trained upon total annexation of the entire British Archipelago. It, as the British Empire, even attempted World domination. The Scotland/England thing was ever present since ever there was a Scotland and England. History, when properly reported and read, is a far more correct and plausible account than taught as history in United Kingdom schools.
There was no actual Union of the Crowns. The whole history is full of obvious lies and they are still lying today. Challenges in the international courts would probably fail but the facts plainly are that this devolution scam is a quite illegal rehash of both the legal and moral ethics of international law. The set up today is even more wrong than the Treaty of Union.
I posted a link to the paper funded by the present Government that Mundell quoted from as, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.
That is exactly what we have in practice. Westminster is only nominally the Parliament of the United Kingdom but is in practice the Parliament of England lording it over the other three countries.
Until the Scots, Welsh and N.Irish realise, and accept, that and act as one against it we are all going to be just a bit of England.
Part Two
Robert Peffers says:
“Unless, of course the rich have taken to printing their own money.”
4/ The banks dont care about inflation as they take £1 from BoE then previously purchased £59 of British Government debt (10yr Gilt) at 1.69% giving them around £1 profit in ONE year. They can now pay back the BoE the £1 they owe and cream in £1 a year for the next 9 years and pay themselves a nice bonus for being so good at fraud.
The bizarre thing in all of this is that the stated position of the SNP and especially AS is to KEEP the BoE and the British Empire banking system.
Look at how the bbc try and close down Jim Sillars when he is explaining what is going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwDMXjyuNOg
OT
FFA was Gordon Brown’s promise of the nearest thing to home rule. It is almost worthless and potentially a trap.
The Scottish people will not get any power until the Scottish Government can coin its own money and this is enshrined in the Constitution period(like USA and Switzerland).
Why pay interest on money creation to the City of London when it can be done for free?
@ Paula Rose
Some folk did claim to feel intimidated about going
I don’t know whether i believe that or not
Could be they thought they might catch The Independence Virus
Wee JOLA said you could
I’ve just complained to Newswatch about this stupid bitch Bradford,
newswatch@bbc.co.uk
ALERT – radio 4 advert promoting 10 O clock news discussing ‘grand coalition’ as best solution to WM projected result
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_coalition
Another possibility is that the major parties may find they have more in common ideologically with each other than with the smaller parties, or that the fragmentation of the smaller parties is so great that no other coalition is stable.
Examples include Austria, where the mainstream parties of the left and right have often formed grand coalitions to keep parties of the far left or far right out of government (an example of a cordon sanitaire), or Israel, where in some parliaments the fragmentation and intransigence of some of the smaller parties has made it easier to maintain a coherent platform with a grand coalition than with a narrow one. This is often done out of political necessity, to prevent an early election.”
Red and blue tory cordon sanitaire to keep any new Scottish SNP MP’s out of UKOK government?
Have Milliband and Balls got the BetterTogether balls? Bet LibDems do.
Actually I assumed you’d taken the headline from Ian Davidson or the other Slab Ian who’s always britnatting on.
Realist at 9.29
I’m afraid that it is me who is the realist and anybody who believes that the UK establishment won’t do exactly as it needs to hold into Scotland needs a degree in naivety.
How do YOU explain a 96% plus take up on the postal vote? (in five seats) and close to that in many others.
There is of course nothing likely to be done about anything now and nobody is suggesting that.
We must make sure that we are not cheated the next time and the postal ballot is an easy to rig component and a recipe for fraud. A very large case of it has just been established in Tower Hamlets in London. An organisation with access to the computers on which postal ballots papers are stored can do anything it likes with them.
The next referendum must be supervised by the Scottish Government and/or the EU.
(The Russians said our ballot was rigged. They know a thing or two about this kind of stuff)
Strange…
the only two references to the “Death Star” hospital on Google come from Eleanor Bradford, BBC Scotland and the Daily Record.
I wonder why no locals have used the name or used it on social media?
An attempt to rubbish a SNP success story by our trusted BBC and MSM perhaps?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-32450836
http://web.archive.org/web/20150427203217/http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/death-star-opens-glasgow-weve-5592645
Despicable health correspondent at the BBC in cahoots with her pals across the river.
Correction – Daily Mail also have a recent article – says it all.
@Alastair says:
27 April, 2015 at 9:09 pm
A Billion pound state of the art show piece hospital opens in Glasgow and hardly a whimper from the media. Funded by the Scottish Government and not a penny of PFI or private funding. Shameless political non reporting.
It would have been nice to have an opening ceremony with an SNP minister, but don’t think it would have been allowed during the campaigning period.
Good point about PFI. Taxpayers would have been ripped off for years to come, and still not own the building at the end of the lease contract.
Queensferry Crossing another good example of a major project fully funded and on course to be delivered on time/under budget.
Cadogan Enright says:
27 April, 2015 at 9:52 pm
ALERT – radio 4 advert promoting 10 O clock news discussing ‘grand coalition’ as best solution to WM projected results
And thus the Bacon Trougher’s Party is born. 150 odd Tory + 150 odd Labour + the prostitutes of the Liberal Party agree not to disagree on budgets, austerity, Europe and Trident and it’s game set and match.
Cameron, Milliband and Clegg would have to go of course but I’m sure dear old Boris would fill the gap after gerrymandering him a seat as the right and less right wings of the respective parties scream into obscurity.
Meanwhile Scotland is neutered to the point where we have to finally take charge our own destiny and tear up the corrupt Union thereby setting our own place at the head of a table where we get to write the menue.
Bring it on!
@Aceldo Atthis says: 27 April, 2015 at 9:36 pm:
“I watched Sky News earlier and it credited the Tories with having produced a list of 5 thousand small businesses that allegedly support their policies and advocate against a change of government.”
Aw! Come on! They produce a list of 5,000 from the entire UK supporting them. How many small business’ are there in the United Kingdom? If 5,000 is all they have supporting them there’s obviously a bloody site more NOT supporting him.
Here is some statistics for you: –
There you go – proper perspective.
O/T
Can I ask what may be a really daft question.
If Labour and Conservatives form a grand alliance and the SNP are the third largest part in Westminster would Angus Robertson become the Leader of The Opposition with all the trappings of that office?
Being briefed on matters of state etc. Get first dibs at PMQ and Budget response.
I really am curious.
Sorry if this has already been answered
Cheers
macbeda
I like that idea.
very interesting.
@Aceldo Atthis
Yes you are right my friend. Tomorrow is another another day and lets wait quietly until then.
The MSM have previous re the Bradford disgraceful naming of the new hospital and pretending that it was commonplace.
I remember some years ago when Ian Macwhirter wrote that on his return to Scotland from London he found Scotland to be “appallingly white” this was his own perception. Then a couple of weeks later in an interview he said that ” people say Scotland is appallingly white” Aye, HE said it and tried to pass of his own particular opinion as that of the population. Same with the Bradford creature, trying to create a bad impression on the off chance that it will hurt the SNP and when we complain? mock outrage that they would ever do such a thing. Only doing their job.
New Survation poll :-
SNP 51% (+4)
Lab 26% (n/c)
And the hits just keep on comin….
If Ms Bradford is fired, I believe there is a new bridge which will soon be in need of a troll.
sensibiledave – awaw in huv ah hurl, doon yoan hull.
If there was a Grand Coalition between labour and conservatives I’d like to suggest we renegotiate the Act of Union. This is a treaty between two parliaments. If the representatives of the Scottish people are deliberately ignored then the Scottish Parliament should ask for the immediate dissolution of the 1707 Acts of Parliament and an immediate refererendum.
re the Survation poll
SNP 51% (+4);
LAB 26% (NC);
CON 14% (-2);
LD 5% (+1);
OTHER 4%
That is the Record Survation poll isn’t it? Be interesting to see what they make of that.
See the Beeb just played the Nazi card with a program on Himmler. Basic message – “even if nationalists seem OK on the surface, underneath the skin they are evil”.
Of course, no mention that eugenics stemmed from a perverted extrapolation of ‘Darwin’s’ natural selection theory by his cousin Galton. Or that and one of Galton’s accolites, Carl Pearson, who was influential in spreading that philosophy in Germany (changing his name to Karl) was actually offered a knighthood by Westminster in 1935.
Dave McEwan Hill says:
27 April, 2015 at 10:16 pm
Realist at 9.29
“I’m afraid that it is me who is the realist and anybody who believes that the UK establishment won’t do exactly as it needs to hold into Scotland needs a degree in naivety.”
Dave reign your horns in. You may not be as important as you think. Im here to help though, just say Yahhh.
@Dr Jim says: 27 April, 2015 at 10:03 pm
… but it seems to me a silly tactic when you consider if David Cameron gets his way there will be no UK Parliament because he’s about to make it an English Parliament”
Come on Dr Jim, the Westminster Parliament became the parliament of England on the first day of devolution. It is only nominally the United Kingdom Parliament.
It legislates for England under the English Legal System. (There are only two legal systems in the United Kingdom, English & Scottish).
If Westminster passes a bill for England, that also applies to Scotland, they tag a wee bit onto the English Act to apply to Scotland.
They finance England, (as the UK), directly with UK funds and they use the Barnett Formula to calculate everyone else’s funding according to English Funding.
As there are no person’s elected as Parliament of England MPs then those UK members from English constituencies are de facto English Parliament members.
If there were any doubts a Government funded paper by a couple of academics actually claims that is fact. It was from that paper David Mundell quoted, “The Treaty of Union extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland and renamed the Kingdom of England as the United Kingdom”.
There it is, black upon white, in that paper – what is now titled, “The United Kingdom”, is, (according to the Westminster Government), the old Kingdom of England renamed.
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/79408/Annex_A.pdf
@ Hoss Mackintosh And Thepnr. “Eleanor Bradford- I hope you are Fired after the 8th of May” I would gladly chip in to buy the Cannon.
@ yabadabadoo
I disagree with almost everything you have said on the subject of inflation.
1. Inflation is not caused by printing money. If it were then QE would have resulted in inflation: in fact we have zero inflation at present if you use the CPI. This story is put about by neoliberals who have deliberately changed the focus of economic policy from a goal of full employment to one of control of inflation. That is because inflation is primarily a tax on wealth.
2. Inflation does not decrease wages by any law of nature: the norm is for wage increases in line with inflation, in civilised countries. We stopped being civilised once the neoliberal hegemony was established, but wages have not been eroded by inflation: they have been eroded by high unemployment, which is an integral part of the neoliberal theory: they call it NAIRU
3. Inflation is defined as a general increase in prices. But when referring to assets it is not generally called inflation: it is called a strong housing market, or some other such hurrah phrase. And it is not presented as a problem in that context, as it is in others. You are correct to say that poor people do not own many assets. But where they do own a house, for example, inflation is very good for them: because the mortgage is fixed amount of debt, and does not rise with inflation at all: so wages and benefits rise with inflation and the debt falls as a proportion of income.
The fact is that inflation is primarily a tax on wealth: and that is why the elite wish us to be afraid of inflation and pretend that our interests align with theirs. They just don’t.
4. The BofE most certainly does care about inflation: all the big financial institutions have control of inflation as their primary function. They pretend that control of inflation is the route to prosperity and that high inflation is bad for everyone. That they are lying is easily seen if you consider that they did do the QE when it suited them. If they believed their own propaganda they would not have done that. But it is a very handy story which they have managed to sell to those who are adversely affected by it: because it is a major justification for austerity, which is their primary aim.
Where we do agree is in the fact that Scotland MUST have a sovereign currency after independence: and that is because printing money is NOT a problem of any kind. It is better than borrowing money, which is the same thing except it pays interest to the elite: though borrowing is not a problem either so long as you have a sovereign currency
Inflation is a genuine problem only when the economy has no spare capacity and therefore an increase in money supply can only put prices up. So long as we do not have full employment we are not in that situation.
@Robert Peffers
But you express it much better than I for which I hope more than me will be grateful and more informed
once again Robert thanks for that
@ Robert Peffers
Yes, I get what you are saying, 5000 businesses would be nothing. But the point is they were caught out, the list was a fraud. It wasn’t bonafide and they got caught.
So how come the Labour Party and the media aren’t confronting them about it? It’s weird.
The coalition government recently completed a bit of forward planning by setting the date for the incoming parliament at May 27, thereby allowing Cameron and crew the protection of law on a period of 20 days to form a plan which will keep Cameron at no 10, no matter the result of the vote.
Add in the fixed term parliament legislation, and you have the ingredients for a great gravy train robbery.
It will be devious, and it may be unethical, but in 3 weeks, the Tories will make it fly.
Cameron didn’t pass these two bits of legislation for nothing.
@ manandboy
Not sure I agree.
The parliament sitting 20 days after the election isn’t of that much consequence and I don’t see how it would impact on the forming of any government which would take place beforehand as it always did.
The fixed term parliament legislation really only imposes limits on the sitting government’s ability to call an election at a time that suits it, as governments used to do. Now they are forced, more or less, to work to a schedule that isn’t of their making — as I understand it, this was something the liberals wanted ( it certainly stinks of their washy washy crap) and it puts a lot of emphasis on reducing the formal role of the monarchy in the dissolution process as I understand it.
In terms of bringing down governments, the fixed term parliament doesn’t make any difference — a vote of no confidence would still do it and result in an election if it succeeded. Another means by which an administration’s time in office would be brought prematurely to an end would be if the commons voted by a two thirds majority for an election.
Cameron will fight tooth and nail to stay in power but that fight will more likely involve constitutional lawyers — it is known that labour and the Tories have lawyers on stand-by.
I don’t give any credence whatsoever to the suggestion that the Tories and labour will in some way coalesce. If they did that, the important and necessary illusion of choice would be in tatters.
Gary 45%
Anton Differing
Slightly o/t but if anyone out there is unaware of the actions of the German war machine please read (note: makes for heavy reading):
https://greeceuntoldatrocities.wordpress.com/
The casualness displayed by certain persons recently over the assimilation of political parties, leaders and supporters to Nazism is beyond belief! Such vile comparisons simply highlight the ignorance of those making the comparison and their lack of respect towards those who died because of it! Shame on them!!!
@ Graham Macqueen
I didn’t read the page you linked to as I’m too rushed just now but Greek history actually gets much more interesting in my opinion after the Germans left. Actually, if I remember right, the British asked the Germans to hang on in Greece until they could send in the British “liberating” army, and the Germans obliged.
There’s a good book by Gabriel Kolko on that stuff called The Politics of War. Well worth reading.
One thing about Nazi’s that really puzzles me about Ian Smart.
He goes on about a very tenuous link to the early life of a leader of the SNP and that link was strenuously denied by all concerned, suggesting it was a lie to get the afore-mentioned SNP monster out of the way. It was done with just a convenient excuse of getting someone trying to stop Scottish civilian women being conscripted down to work in England away from their families.
But he never mentions Oswald Moseley, A man close to Ramsey Macdonald when they were in government together as a former Labour (and conservative!)MP, who subsequently jumped ship (and the shark!) and formed the British Fascist Party.
Thing is, Ramsey Macdonald does not deserve to be monstered over it, but if he was alive today and declaring Home rule….He would drown in Ian Smart’s spittle as fascist scum.
As far as tenuous links to fascism are concerned, History shows that the labour party has more serious links to 1930’s fascism than the SNP
Stu,
You need an article!!!
Scots Labour have an edited version of that video clip on their youtube channel and surprise, surprise they have disabled commenting.
Oh, Stu you should be careful with headlines like that in case the Daily Mail are snooping around here, you know what they’re like.