How’s that working out for you?
The Scotsman reports today the less-than-astonishing news that the Orange Order plans to take the (Ulster Says) No side in the independence debate, lining up with such other lovely “Better Together” bedfellows as the BNP, National Front and UKIP in a coalition of all the most likeable aspects of Britishness.
In the light of this exciting and important development, we couldn’t help but wonder how their last attempt at influencing Scottish politics had gone.
The 2010 UK general election saw Scotland return precisely the same seats as it had done in 2005, and the following year’s Scottish election saw an unprecedented SNP landslide, with Labour taking just 15 of 73 constituency seats (a loss of 20 on the previous election). This site would like to take the opportunity to go on the record and say that – just like Labour MP Michael McMahon – we unreservedly welcome the intervention of the Order on the side of the Union, and hope it has just as much impact (or even more) on the outcome of the referendum as it did in elections.
and give them plenty publicity.. some of my friends will be horrified to know this bunch are on board the #bettertogether gravy train
More double standards from the media.
Imagine the outrage and derision heaped on Yes campaign if it had been supported by the BNP, UKIP and Orange Order
And Rev your message to Alistair Darling should be
Be not deceived, bad company corrupts good morals
Do not set foot on the path of the wicked or
walk in the way of evil men.
Avoid it, do not travel on it; turn
from it and go on your way.
Proverbs 4:14-15 NIV
The last time the lodge intervened the Grand Master had to resign as he ranted on about going armed into the hills if Scotland chose independence.
Can anybody find press coverage of that?
I would send them armed into the hills to join a similarly armed Green Brigade and invite them to rid us of both of them
The Orange Order getting into bed with Labour is not a thought to be going to bed with.
Could you not have left this until the morning, Rev?
So the Orange Order say they will get into bed with Labour if it means beating the SNP eh.
That sounds a bit like a chat up line Johann !
Do you like it or would you describe it as mince?
Now you say Scotland is about to give Alex Salmond the biggest Knock-back in history, so what do you think Scotland should do when the Orange Order come a chatting?
Drap wir breeks ? Over to you Johann.
It was nice to see that the Scotsman’s anonymous writer had the good grace to tell readers that the story had been lifted wholesale from Gerry Braiden’s piece in the Herald.
At least they’re not threatening us with a paramilitary response to the “threat” of independence as they did a few years ago in a Sunday Herald interview.
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-19044262.html
How Jack Ramsay was never prosecuted for this is beyond belief.
Herald, today:
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/orange-order-in-no-vote-campaign.20885828
Anne
I think a fair few Better Together fans will have misgivings too.
I hope the Green Brigade realise what Michael McMahon has led them into. An alliance with the Orange Order must be hard to bear for the Celtic rebels. How low can SLAB get? This is really scraping the barrel stuff from them. Will the Truth Team/ Trough Team be on the case like the A-Team? Somehow I BA Baracus it… :D:
Dave McEwan Hill
It’s becoming harder to find a reference to the article you mentioned when Jack Ramsay made these threats. Strangely, they keep disappearing.
Try googling ” Orange Order threat to take up arms”.
Dave McEwan Hill
This link has a lot of info:
http://tinyurl.com/clhedhh
O/T Did I just hear Fanny Flanders on BBC news say,
“Scotland cannot expect to have all THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF INDEPENDENCE, and expect to keep the currency.”
At last! Someone from the BBC recognising the positive outcomes of a Yes vote.
“… the following year’s Scottish election saw an unprecedented SNP landslide, with Labour taking just 15 of 73 constituency seats …”
This still makes me smile as the useless, unresponsive, self-interested labour incumbent (Karen Gillon) was firmly booted up the arse and out of her seat being replaced by the highly proactive, responsive, and useful Aileen Campbell.
If the whole referendum process is a 70’s Hogmanay party, with all the excitement, hi-jinks and bickering such parties entailed, this development is like the cantankerous, scary, well-bladdered uncle entering, staggering to the middle of the floor, determined to have one last blow-out before his diseased ticker packs in.
Nothing anyone can do…just let him get on with it…he keels over soon enough.
No big loss anyway…
The party continues…still waiting for The Bells.
OO British Together Campaign – it actually claims that we’re Sronger Together.
http://www.britishtogether.co.uk/
Nothing on their twitter feed since 14th March – not a lot happening there then.
13th for their Facebook – which also claims we’re Sronger Together.
Hang on, let me get this straight. 50,000 people who were going to vote no, are now officially going to vote no about six years after they knew there was going to be a referendum and about a month after they knew there was a date set?
Are we sure they’re going to remember to turn up in time?
@LeeMacD-
Maybe it’s a code.
It would seem like the Orange Order like Westminster’s gross mismanagement of the economy and the resulting austerity measures.
Heck, I even heard a Labour gadgie on the radio claiming that George Osborne would take 400 years to break even with his current rate of deficit reduction and still they want us to vote No!
I’ll hunt out my secret decoder pen.
I really shouldn’t mock but this is what we’re up against. This guy posted his support on the British Together Facebook page.
10 reasons why it’s great to be British
http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/affg/contents/uk9.html
The British Together site promises ‘the positive case for the UK’ but when you click the ‘Find Out More’ button nothing happens.
O/T or maybe not based on the last Orange walk I had the misfortune to witness.
The Times reports
The alcohol industry distorted scientific evidence in an attempt to change the Scottish Government’s policy on alcohol pricing and promotion, a study has found.
Researchers from the London School of Hygiene & Tropical Medicine and from the University of York, led by Jim McCambridge, found that the alcohol industry had ignored, misrepresented and undermined scientific evidence in submissions to the Scottish government’s 2008 consultation Changing Scotland’s Relationship with Alcohol.
Published in PLOS Medicine, the study found that supermarkets, drinks companies and trade associations had manipulated figures to try to stop the SNP administration introducing its policies.
The move to impose a minimum price for alcohol units is being held up in the courts after a challenge led by the Scotch Whisky Association.
Dr McCambridge said: “There is a broad consensus internationally among researchers that the most effective measures to control problems caused by alcohol are to raise the price, control availability and restrict marketing activities.
“However, our study shows that key players in the alcohol industry constructed doubt about this wealth of scientific evidence and instead chose to promote weak survey-based evidence, as well as making unsubstantiated claims to their advantage. These tactics mean it is harder for governments to make evidence-based policy where industry is involved.”
The researchers looked at 27 submissions made by the alcohol industry. They found the Wine and Spirit Trade Association (WSTA) heavily promoted weak evidence, citing a small community trial that lacks thorough data.
The Portman Group, which promotes responsibility, was said to have made unsubstantiated claims that the proposals could “increase the appeal of alcohol to young people by creating a ‘mystique’”. It also claimed that the approach taken by the Scottish government had been “widely discredited in research studies”, when in fact there is broad consensus among researchers.
Next week, slime mould speak out in favour of the Union. Alisdair Darling embraces them.
“Well, they haven’t made a donation yet, but here’s hoping.
We have had the OO last week, so why not?
We are a broad church, and welcome our slime mould bretheren.”
Whist this inter species support has moved ‘yes’ support to at least a zillion trillion organisms. Alisdair Darling did point out:
“Unfortunately our latest colleagues are unable to write, so will be unable to cast a vote. We appear to have similar problems with some previous supporters, but, hey!, no one has called me Flipper Darling all day, so we are winning.”
In separate news, dolphins are taking the SNP to court for associating a human – after a fashion – with Flipper. “He was a truly great dolphin and he should never be associated with that man,” their representative beeped, or whistled or summat.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/23/scotland-editorial
New Editorial up from the Graun….for them it’s relatively balanced…..if you ignore the bit about ‘Scottish Labour’s principled case for retaining benefits as Uk wide obligations’…..
This bit might be worth quoting though….
“Sadly, the failure to provide an alternative vision of a union that is sustainable into the future is a weakness shared with too many politicians from all of the anti-nationalist parties. Scottish Labour and its Tory and Lib Dem counterparts have all been thinking about fresh potential devolutionary steps in some depth, but until they can generate more interest from their English colleagues, they will struggle to produce a blueprint that makes sense for the UK as a whole, or creates the impression of permanence”
Which is kinda what Wings has been arguing since the start……
George Golloway has also be playing the sectarian card remember. it’s only a few weeks since he was tweeting “there ain’t no green in the Saltire”.
Just Asked James Kelly over on twitter if he was happy about The Orange Order Backing the No Campaign . I await a reply
The British Establishment promoting a NO vote. Three neo-Liberal political parties. BNP and UKIP, and a bunch of bigoted bampots trapped in a 17th century mindset.
Better Together-sick fuckers the lot of you.
ronald alexander mcdonald,
And the EDL, or the SDL if it still exists.
I seriously do wonder how their side will, ahem, incorporate all these exciting and vibrant voices into their campaign. It must be a joy to Mr Darling to find himself heading up such a thrilling rainbow coalition of our societies’ cultural divesity.
Let them all speak up for the Union!
I have a wideish circle of friends and suchlike.
How come no-one I know admits to being in any of the organisations you and I have listed? I think these people are farting against thunder.
Just saying…….
OO British Together Campaign – it actually claims that we’re Sronger Together.
To be fair to them, that’s a very easy typo to make. The S is immediately beneath the W.
Haha. You’ve got the answer.
I forgot to post the link earlier. If anyone is in any doubt about George Galloway playing the sectarian card
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/313042414652776448
And while we’re on the subject Arthur Scargill on the desperation of the Yes campaign that it’s had to use homosexuals.
https://twitter.com/ScargillArthur/status/292741507297968128
Makes you proud to be British.
Should that not be.
The Man from Del Montaef**k
He Say NEVER! NEVER! NEVER!
Ananurhing says:
23 April, 2013 at 10:42 pm
O/T Did I just hear Fanny Flanders on BBC news say,
“Scotland cannot expect to have all THE ECONOMIC BENEFITS OF INDEPENDENCE, and expect to keep the currency.”
At last! Someone from the BBC recognising the positive outcomes of a Yes vote.
YES you did. Surely the YES Campaign/SNP can get some mileage out of this.
As far as the OO is concerned, as I have said before on here, we are talking about some very dangerous people. Everyone who supports, campaigns and mans the YES stalls should be aware that some extreme unionists are quite frankly nutters. I am not saying that we should run scared, simply be aware that they do not debate and that violence is commonplace in their lives. I detest all they stand for, have bitter experience of their hatred, but will never be bowed by their ideology.
Dave McEwan Hill mentioned the Green Brigade. I agree, with I think his sentiment, that Irish politics has no place in Scotland. However I think it is also informative to point out that the Green Brigade actually supports an independent Scotland.
While I am on this rant I have to say I was a bit taken aback with some of the negativity on the previous thread. I have been a nationalist for 40+ years and like many thousands of others, have experienced more lows than highs. However, we are in the strongest position in my lifetime i.e. we have a referendum, we have a British Tory Chancellor who is taking the British economy deeper than the Titanic and who is now employing blackmail to keep us in the union, we have Labour leaders in both Scotland and the UK who are unelectable and losing support by the barrow load and some of us are starting to have doubts. I say keep the faith, this is not a sprint but a marathon. We are well on the road to independence.
If the Green Brigade support independence they have a funny way of showing it and some very queer friends – but I’m willing to be persuaded
Dave McEwan Hill says:
24 April, 2013 at 12:37 am
If the Green Brigade support independence they have a funny way of showing it and some very queer friends – but I’m willing to be persuaded
Dave I am no apologist for the Green Brigade, however have a look at their website and see what you think. I am in total agreement they have some dyed in the wool unionists as friends e.g. Michael McMahon Labour MSP. I am pretty sure that there are some intelligent people pulling both Old Firm strings in an effort to thwart the struggle for Scottish self determination. A plague on both their houses.
Bill C,
Link?
Wow I can hardly contain my surprise the orange order want to join the “NO” campaign, big deal they deserve each other. I will lose no sleep worrying about that particular organisation and nor should anyone else, their joining the “NO’s” is nothing but an asset for Scottish independence and the fair minded people of our country.
@ Bill C,
I agree – The Anti Salmond Brigade out to stir up resentment. There is organisation behind this front from within the better together umbrella group. Fringes on the extreme keen to create tension and brand it as being Government interference. Those organising know exactly what they are doing. I would like to see them caught out before someone gets hurt. Scotland doesn’t want this sort of thing.
ouglas clark says:
24 April, 2013 at 12:56 am
Bill C,
Link?
Douglas, sorry my IT skills don’t stretch that far, however if you Google Green Brigade, you will find it.
@Adrian B
No prizes for guessing who are the past masters at using divide and rule. Scotland’s struggle for self determination, poses the biggest threat to the British Establishment since India’s independence. Let there be no doubt, Scottish democracy is now under attack from the considerable resources of the British security forces.
@ Bill C
sorry my IT skills don’t stretch that far,
click (or left click browser address window – address starts http:
bring cursor to just before the h in http and press and hold down left mouse button or touchpad. continue holding down and move mouse or finger to the right until the very end of the address bar – the whole address is now highlighted in blue. Let go of mouse button or lift finger from trackpad.
Move the cursor back over the address (towards the start is best)
The next bit is different whether you are using a mac or windows machine.
Windows – Bottom row of Keyboard you will see on either side of spacebar, keys marked ctrl – normally 3-4 keys to the outside.
Mac – Again, similar positioning, but ignore ctrl and use cmd
Now use one of these keys simultaneously with c ctrl/cmd c = copy
Now go to where you wish to place this address and click to bring up the cursor, you may want to use the Return or delete keys on some instances.
Now use the ctrl/cmd v simultaneously to paste.
It is also possible to use right click of a mouse or trackpad to do the copy and paste action.
Give it a bit of practice – see how you get on. Good luck.
@Bill C says:
24 April, 2013 at 12:22 am
@Ananurhing says:
It ain’t negativity. It’s realism/pragmatism/fatalism. People need an opportunity to say, in a safe environment, that they are tired and weary and pessimistic. And to be supported. Isn’t the weariness to be expected given the constant grinding down via MSM and the UK government informatics – and the constant requirement to reiterate the answers to so-called unanswered questions. If I hear ‘there’s no information’ again I’ll scream. Yes, there is – loads of. Yes, information should be made available but voters also need to take responsibility to access it, read it, digest it and form an opinion. Or not. In which case, their opinion matters nothing.
fordie,
I dunno. It strikes me that we are winning. The more exposure that the Better Together campaign gets, the less likely any sane Scot is going to vote for them. There is something in the psyche of Scots that tends to reject folk so obviously on the make.
Just my opinion.
I suppose that we should be pleased that the Orange Order have finally seen sense and will be giving up their intimidating behaviour, as stated on their website contact page.
http://www.britishtogether.co.uk/contact.php
Any abusive, threatening or distasteful messages will be reported to the relevant authorities.
LeeMcD
This Alistair McConnachie seems to be a bit of a rocket.
I do like his e-mail address though 🙂
http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/affg/about/aboutali.html
Our Aim for 2013
To establish this site as a Primary “go-to” Online Resource for Pupils and Students who are Researching the Positive Case for the Union, prior to voting in 2014.
Good luck with that, Alistair.
I expected to see a picture of Gordon Mathieson high fiving Ian Paisley there…tsk
Desimond
I do hope thats not a euphemism.
@Adrian B – Thanks Adrian, will give it a go.
@fordie – I know where you are coming from. As I said, nationalists have had many ‘lows’ the movement began and I have experienced a good few of them. However, I don’t think any sane nationalist thought we would be where we are today so quickly. I agree that some days things don’t look that positive, but over the piece Britain is braking up. Every day something else gives, a dodgy donation here another high profile convertion there. We might not win a YES vote next year, however two things are certain: 1. The UK is finished as we know it, Britain will never be the same again. 2. We will be an independent nation within 10 years, of that I have no doubt.
Hi Guys,
I am from a place in Glasgow called Bridgeton,(Brigtun to the more uncouth) For those unfamiliar with this distinct part of Glasgow, this is an area that is deemed Protestant and the OO has a very strong presence within the community.
Now I know that if you are not immersed in this culture the thought of this organisation having a community presence is abhorrent, given its strong links with sectarianism but it was a normal part of life growing up and no thought was really given to it.
However, like in life you move on, travel and broaden your horizons and what this organisation now stands for is so outdated in modern society, very much like the Labour Party. They view their organisation as standing up for the Protestant Community……..not in my name!!!!!!
I am disgusted with their latest statement/outburst and was shaking my head in disbelief at the Gen Sec’s words a few years back. The reality is that they will increase the YES vote the more vocal they become. This referendum will be decided by the rational Scots NOT the lunatic fringe which this organisation has become.
“This Alistair McConnachie seems to be a bit of a rocket.”
We’ve encountered him before:
http://wingsoverscotland.com/peeking-behind-the-curtain/
http://greenbrigade.proboards.com/index.cgi
http://www.ultras-celtic.com/
I haven’t looked in any detail, but I haven’t seen anything out of order, nor even childish banging of big drums outside of Protestant churches. I see football fans standing up for themselves. I think that’s probably a good thing.
Of course they might just be smart enough not to make thier IRA connections public and I think Anthony Stokes was in trouble recently for appearing at an IRA event. Not sure he’s a member of the Green Brigade though.
There is a politics section but you can’t access it without signing up…
That National Front page is disgusting. Actually, it sounded like they might be talking about Christian Allard, the racists.
“I decided to approach one of the clowns and was shocked when he spoke to me in a French accent. Yes that’s correct Allah Salmond and his treacherous SNP are enrolling French clowns to do their campaigning in their fight for independence.
When the French clown spoke to me he was told by the other clown not to waste his time talking to me as I was from the National Front! What a revelation that was eh? The French clown then had the nerve to say that nobody was going to stop him campaigning for independence for Scotland. Well coco it’s time you went back home and left the campaigning to those who are actually living here in Scotland.”
@George Brown
I am from a place in Glasgow called Bridgeton,(Brigtun to the more uncouth) For those unfamiliar with this distinct part of Glasgow, this is an area that is deemed Protestant and the OO has a very strong presence within the community.
Willie Miller was from Bridgeton!
I wondered how long it would take for Scotland’s shame personified to open its stupid collective mouth. The Orange Lodge: a bunch of proletarian bigots finally propelled into action by the devious dark forces of Brit black ops. The prospect of columns of ragged arse tories parading down our high streets in ill fitting suits and bowler hats like some weird cargo cult of colonial clowns does bring a wry smile to my grim features. What a wonderful display they’ll make! Banners celebrating an Irish conflict and their civil rights (as long as you are not Cafflick) , defending their ‘faith’ and monarch (Episcopalian unlike most of them) and their ‘ their Britishness’….poverty, prejudice and self abasement and self loathing. Maybe the ‘don’t knows’ can benefit from seeing what three hundred years of Union looks like in all its horrible majesty: drum beating relics from a fictious and fabricated past.
@ Lochside:
Beautifully put, you’re on fire!
@Lochside – I take it your not a fan either? Well said.
@Muttley79
Willie Miller AND Lorraine Kelly AND Frankie Miller 🙂
Lochside – ‘cargo cult of colonial clowns’ that’s now
my phrase of the week 🙂
No wonder I stopped going to Ibrox. They are Sooooooo 70’s . Also heard Sien Fien are for independence. Bring it on.
Brilliant image. May I borrow for the Yes cause?
George Brown
Frankie Miller went to the Sacred Heart School in Brigtun and I don’t think that is an Orange school at all.
Seriously it’s as well we all realise that the union is playing its last card – the divide and rule one. We must nip this in the bud.
Dave McEwan Hill
Yes the union is playing the divide and rule card once again, unfortunately.
Some people still fall for that deception, I am afraid.
However I live in hope that we can overcome this unionist nonsense.
It is very important that we let the Catholic community in Scotland know that they are being used and abused by unscrupulous elements in the Labour Party.
How we do that I’m not sure as the history of sectarian prejudice against that community is not a too distant memory for much of it and it is very easy to raise fear.
As a member of that community I have been able to watch this fear being stirred up by Labour elements in all the fifty years I have been in politics made possible basically because the sectarian prejudice against the Scots Irish community in Scotland was very real indeed.
We require some inspiration
Dave McEwan Hill
Completely agree the RC community has been used as pawns by unscrupulous members of the Labour party for a long time in Scottish politics. The same politicians who achieve little or nothing for their constituents but they end up clothed in ermine and more than a few quid richer. However through social media outlets like Wings over Scotland more and more people are better educated. End of their era 🙂
@Dave McE Hill
Dave, in my post I was just mentioning 3 famous people from Bridgeton.
It had absolutely nothing to do with religion, I was harmlessly remarking on a earlier post. However, I fully understand the point you make and the lesson history has taught us.
My focus is purely on obtaining a YES vote.
Cheers
Och, I know that George, It was just a wee joke.
Quote Dave McEwan Hill
“It is very important that we let the Catholic community in Scotland know that they are being used and abused by unscrupulous elements in the Labour Party.
How we do that I’m not sure as the history of sectarian prejudice against that community is not a too distant memory We require some inspiration “
A good start is to get members of the Catholic community reading good balanced reporting, ie. WoS, Newsnetscotland, Bellacaledonia.
The referendum is not next week. There is time for this education process to take place and have an effect. BUT the targeted dissemenation of knowledge must start soon.
Agree entirely.That community will determine the referendum result across a whole slice of central Scotland and that could be critical. But if it falls to us it all falls to us as it is a very connected up community.
The Orange Order, eh! That’ll be those guys that back in the late sixties, when I was a just a wean, and that Saturday when my mother took me with her shopping in Glasgow and we didn’t know we were not supposed to cross the street in front of those bowler-hatted guys with their sashes and drums and banners, and when we did some really angry guys with their faces twisted with hatred came running up to us and one of them screamed at the top of his voice, “Get tae fuck aff the road ya pair ah cunts!”, and then pushed us back really roughly to the pavement leaving my mother and me both crying in shock and fear?
Aye, that’s them. Scum of the Earth.
Dal Riata
Thats a nasty story you have there. Doesnt surprise me though. I remember growing up and seeing these idiots. They used to deliberately stop their march outside the RC chapel and fire up some particularly sectarian tune. The hatred was palpable.
Ever seen “Just Another Saturday”? a short film/play thing that features a young Billy Connolly. A grim depiction of the OO in Glasgow in the early 70s. Its on YouTube if you look for it.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0292221/
Somebody should ask Alistair Darling whether he welcomes the support of the Orange lodge (and ask Ruth Davidson and Michael McMahon as well).
Answers should be interesting
@Dave McEwan Hill
@Dal Riat
I am just catching up here and I wanted to say that I agree with both your comments.
I am a confirmed atheist this has a lot to do with growing up in west central also other life experiences. Far too much misery caused by religion throughout the world IMO. I am a fan of Prof. Richard Dawkins. My solution would be when the time comes that Scotland writes the constitution I most certainly would advocate a secular society. It is absolutely ludicrous to separate children as young as four into “Us” and “Them”. I remember crying because my pals and I were separated and went to a different schools, I could not understand why. Getting rid of faith schools is essential to breaking down the divisions that exist today.
Also Guys if you click on the above link to the Scotsman McMahons opinion is there to see.
Michael MacMahon, the Labour MSP for Hamilton North and Bellshill, and a Catholic, said that he welcomed the support. He said: “I have a good relationship with the Orange Order. They understand the importance of the Union and they understand the threat.”
With the OO firmly in the NO camp, does this mean we can also expect marmalade tomorrow?