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Wings Over Scotland


How soon isn’t now?

Posted on March 16, 2017 by

Sigh.

None of the tweets below are true.

We could list a hundred more. In a torrent of something less than journalism, almost every news outlet in the country has issued kneejerk blaring headlines in the last 10 minutes claiming something that Theresa May categorically did NOT say.

In fact, as one or two slightly more diligent and professional reporters pointed out, what the Prime Minister actually did was studiously and doggedly AVOID the question of whether she would block a second referendum.

May simply repeated, over and over again, that “Now is not the time”. But nobody was proposing holding a referendum now. The earliest approximate date in the range suggested by Nicola Sturgeon was autumn 2018, over a year and a half away. That is not “now” in any remotely reasonable definition.

The First Minister expressly said that the vote should not be held until the details of Brexit were known. That will be the case well before Brexit actually happens. (Since the deal has to be ratified, which takes time. The EU’s chief negotiator said late last year that the “real” deadline for agreeing all the details is in fact October 2018, which is precisely in line with Nicola Sturgeon’s timeframe.)

On that matter she and the Prime Minister are in full agreement. The UK’s political journalists are at best incompetent idiots, and at worst deliberate liars.

And sadly that, like the tweets above, is not news.

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523 to “How soon isn’t now?”

  1. shug says:

    They are trying to put a lid on the surge in ‘yes’ supporters as ‘no voters’ and undecided, react to being told ‘what for’ by London.

    Bring on the local election

  2. FatCandy says:

    “The earliest date in the range suggested by Nicola Sturgeon is over a year and a half away” – To Labour that’s a generation and a half away. 😉

  3. heedtracker says:

    The UK’s political journalists are incompetent idiots.

    They’re doing it on purpose, shurely.

  4. chasanderson200 says:

    Exactly how I read her too! GAME ON!!!

  5. WellKeith89 says:

    I think it’s safe to say that regardless of whether or not she allows it, a referendum will happen. If she attempts to block it, the only difference will be that it will be a consultative referendum (which there is no legal impediment to holding).

    Let’s face it, that’s not worth her while. It’ll get folk’s backs up and make a Yes vote all the more likely. If you’ll pardon my saying so, she doesn’t have the balls.

  6. One_Scot says:

    ‘and at worst deliberate liars’

    That’s where my money is.

  7. Stoker says:

    Maybe those who post direct links to the rags mentioned above, and there’s been a few, could now think twice before ever doing so again. By posting direct links to BUM sites you are helping to promote and pay for the lies they print.

  8. bugsbunny says:

    Fake news, False News, False Flags. All of these were once the choice of words for conspiracy theorists. Now it’s the choice of medium for the MSM/BUM/BBC/STV etc. Not forgetting the press. Making up shite. Lying through the teeth is also the go to position of Unionist Politician and their lickspittle followers on Social Media.

    “I want to break free” should be our new YES anthem blaring out two years from now. We need to free ourselves from these lying sociopaths.

  9. JaceF says:

    Who’s writing her Theresa’s script George Lucas?

  10. Ken500 says:

    May would break EU/International Law. Under Scottish Law separate and guaranteed under the Act of Union forever, the people in Scotland are sovereign. May will be gone before the Indy Ref in Autumn 2018.

  11. Almannysbunnet says:

    Not sure all the misreporting by the media will do May any favours. I would think the last thing she wanted was to look like she’s blocking the referendum. It could end up as a huge own goal. We’ll see if various spokesmen are rolled out to clarify things over the next few hours.

  12. Macart says:

    Did she, aye?

    Opening salvos in franchise negotiation going well. 🙂

  13. Calum MacKay says:

    UDI is the only option starting with a withdrawal of Scottish MPs (56 out of 59).

    Followed by civil disobedience and other peaceful means.

    If a wee guy from India with charm and steely determination can oust the brits peacefully, I am sure Scots can too!

  14. heedtracker says:

    Norman Smith in Westminster, BBC r4 lunchtime news, Scottish people are sick of referendums now, May reaching out to Scottish people, rebuffing the evil Nic Sturgeon, catching Sturgeon off guard. Long to reign over us, happy etc.

  15. mogabee says:

    Lovely jubbly…

    Let them make fools of themselves at this early stage, all the better when true situation cannot be hidden.

  16. thingy says:

    I’m fine with the way it’s being reported. It will fuck more people off.

  17. Roboscot says:

    Setting up Scotland as the scapegoat for when the negotiations go wrong.

  18. Bill McDermott says:

    I agree with you Rev on the facts of the case, but Theresa May is nevertheless on the front foot in the immediate term.

    Next move is for Nicola to respond robustly and she must.

    What are her options?

    1) Use the Parliament’s independence majority in next week’s debate to press home her pre-emptive strike of last Monday.
    2) Foment a popular uprising amongst Yessers to demonstrate that we mean business
    3) Explain as above that the Indyref is not immediate and its timing equates to a period when we will all know what Brexit looks like.
    4) Sound out the nuclear option of calling an election based on an independence manifesto when the Tory Party disintegrates further, given its many problems bubbling away.

    I think most of all we need a popular uprising.

  19. Couldn’t believe it when I saw Glen Campbell’s tweet about this. He actually got it correct. Must have read the Rev’s article before he tweeted. hahahaha

  20. Ruglonian says:

    Good, as I’m a wee bit busy just ‘now’.

    When it comes time for a (practically inevitable) new referendum however, my diary will be cleared!

  21. Auld Rock says:

    Mark my words well Mrs May – this is not a refusal/rejection it is tantamount to a “Declaration of War” and if it’s war she wants it’s war she’ll get. Poll Tax Riots will pale into insignificance.

    Our MP’s should now walk out of Westminster citing the United Nations Rights to Self Determination or somly just declare UDI.

    Auld Rock

  22. Luigi says:

    heedtracker says:

    16 March, 2017 at 1:25 pm

    The UK’s political journalists are incompetent idiots.

    They’re doing it on purpose, shurely.

    Shhhhhhh!

    Never interrupt your enemy. 🙂

    The yoon MSM continue to boost support for Scottish independence. 🙂

    The MSM are playing to an BrexitNat audience. Too flummoxed, too terrified to realise that the effects, of making May look strong and decisive, on the Scottish audience will backfire big time.

    Never interrupt your enemy. 🙂

  23. Proud Cybernat says:

    Truth still struggling to get its boots on. But no matter. I think this media hyperbole will simply stoke the ire of many a supporter of democracy (even if they don’t support indy).

  24. Auld Rock says:

    Mark my words well Mrs May – this is not a refusal/rejection it is tantamount to a “Declaration of War” and if it’s war she wants it’s war she’ll get. Poll Tax Riots will pale into insignificance.

    Our MP’s should now walk out of Westminster citing the United Nations Rights to Self Determination or simply just declare UDI.

    Auld Rock

  25. ClanDonald says:

    These media lies help the yes case this time. Useful idiots 😀

  26. galamcennalath says:

    Ken500 says:

    May will be gone before the Indy Ref in Autumn 2018.

    Aye, just as likely as anything!

    There is a Hell of a lot to happen before deal completion in Oct 2018! And that is the earliest anyone is planning ScotRef.

  27. The British Government has just tried to kick the Referendum into touch’ Let’s hope the Scottish Government is made of sterner stuff than that.

    No Way Theresa May!
    We Won’t Wait Another Day!

  28. paul gerard mccormack says:

    Mibbes we have to wait til my dad gets home from his work?

  29. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    This is high-stakes poker. May has just upped the ante.

    But she’s bluffing. She doesn’t hold the cards, but she’s gone for bust anyway. And bust is what she will be.

    She’s just confirmed, if any such were still equired, that we’re not the “valued equals” of the BT lie. We’re mere pawns to shove around like all those EU citizens that she is desperate to disenfranchise.

  30. Ken500 says:

    Tory running away from SKy. Davis making a fool of himself at a Westminster committee. May giving a worthless statement. Deja Vu.

  31. Big Jock says:

    “How to lose when you think you are winning by Theresa May Age 58.5.”

    Cameron was smart enough not to try this. May and her key stone cop cabinet are making a monumental error. This will hasten independence.

  32. Willie Hogg says:

    It’s as if all the MSM had their articles typed up and ready to go, but TH changed her mind and decided that a plea to stick together was all she could say to her assemble and waiting audience.

  33. Clapper57 says:

    I Posted this comment below yesterday….looks as if actually relevant now.

    Indy Ref has certainly put a spanner in the works re Brexit negotiations with EU….how on earth will UKOK be able to negotiate new trade deals in respect to anything Scottish when Indy Ref on cards…..If MAY dictates that Indy Ref MUST be POST BREXIT negotiations then anything relating to Scotland would surely be non binding in event of pro Independence vote …surely ?

    How can EU accept trade deal with UK on Scottish matters ?

    How will EU respond to trade relating to Scotland when negotiating with UKOK ?

    Oh my God the backlash from Brexiteers towards Scotland will be a torrent of momentous sweaty Jock ridden abuse…pretty much same as now actually lol….

    Cannot deny May has backed herself into a corner through her own arrogant position re Scotland….hell mend her and her tyrannical rule I say. What comes around goes around…Amen to that.

    Extreme right wing Tories must be seething und pure ragin…much gnashing of teeth…heard John Redwood was apoplectic …cause he know…oh he know what this could mean hee hee hee…. LOL…BLOL.

    And Today 16/3/17 :

    TODAY Norman Smith BBC political pundit tried to spin the rebuttal as May reaching out to Scottish people…..as if Scots were all gullible idiots and could not see through May’s obvious ploy to DENY Ms Sturgeon’s timetable with NO definite date offered as an option and then post Brexit her saying a definitive NO to Indy …..the ‘Not now’ and ‘not knowing what Brexit deal will be’ is lies in relation to dates suggested by Ms Sturgeon for next Indy Ref.

    Autumn 2018 – Spring 2019 is in fact NOT NOW and by dates Ms Sturgeon suggests for Indy Ref Scots WILL know what is on offer.

    Ms May is desperately trying to avert the obvious serious problems UKOK Brexit negotiations with EU will face with an impending Indy Ref…..however it will NOT be a non issue with the EU…..no deal relating to Scotland will be binding if Scotland votes for Independence.

    Who is playing political games now Mrs May ?

  34. Robert Peffers says:

    I posted the comment below on the tail-end of the last topic.

    I’ll re-post it here :-

    “WOW! Did you hear that hell of a bang as Nicola’s trap snapped shut and it was timed to perfection.
    BBC in full and immediate anti-SG, SNP and Scotland propaganda mode.
    The claim that Dis-May has the powers to prevent the Scottish Government from holding a referendum is utter claptrap. Full on implication by BBC Jockland is that a Section 30 Order can prevent the SG holding a referendum on anything they please. They are wrong.
    All a Section 30 Order does is confirm that both the Westminster Parliament, (a.k.a. de facto parliament of the country of England), and the Scottish Parliament will legally recognise the referendum result but will treat it as advisory only.
    Perhaps that is not quite as clear as it could be – It just means that Westminster has now claimed the referendum is advisory only and they will say that as such the de facto Parliament of England will over-rule the wishes of the people of Scotland and England will take Scotland out of Europe against their will.
    This, in my humble opinion, is exactly what Nicola’s trap was baited to get from Dis-May and The Westminster Establishment in the first place.”

  35. Vestas says:

    Fucking hell guys get a grip!

    Its not a “declaration of war” or anything like it. Its just PR bullshit yoon style which will ultimately mean nothing.

    Last week “no need for indyref2”. This week “not now”. Next week…..?

    Its just the start & some of you are losing the plot already 🙁

  36. Mike says:

    Same thing happened in a Galaxy far far away.

    Borg Queen: Will you cunts stop referring to it as Assimilation?

    Galaxy media: What dae ye want us tae call it then Hen?

    Borg Queen Its pooling and sharing ya fucking roaster. Nae wonder I have tae keep dodging photon torpedos awe day.

  37. Robert Peffers says:

    @heedtracker says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:25 pm:

    “The UK’s political journalists are incompetent idiots.
    They’re doing it on purpose, shurely”

    For, “The UK’s political journalists”, read, “Westminster’s, (de facto Parliament of England), Propaganda machinery.”

  38. KB says:

    You’re right but the reporting of it massively helps Yes though by presenting it as May refusing.

  39. galamcennalath says:

    As soon the EU publish the official timetable for negotiations, Holyrood should pass a bill setting the exact date of ScotRef for a couple of weeks afternoon negotiation completion (Oct/Nov 2018).

    Then dare May not to issue an Article 30 prior to that date.

    We want ScotRef to be hanging over May throughout the Brexit talks. We don’t want her to think it’s been kicked off into the never never.

  40. cearc says:

    There’s a petition for a referendum, that seems to have been started a while ago.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168781

  41. nodrog says:

    Well there is the small matter of a number of Theresa’s MP,s being investigated and if charged she could find herself with no majority. Then do they go for many by-elections or a General Election. Interesting thought.

  42. Robert Graham says:

    Now is the time for our government to advise Mayhems mob if and when we are going to name the date of our Referendum, Long gone are the days when we ASK , there is no point in any contact with this lot , by pass them talk to European leaders directly in private make plans as if we we’re already independent, f/k them all they are a total waste of our time.

  43. gus1940 says:

    bugsbunny @1.27

    Can I suggest the following as an anthem for Indyref2:-

    Ray Charles recorded a wonderful song ‘Take These Chains From My Heart And Set me Free’which had a fantastic orchestral background.

    Substitute ‘Land’ for ‘Heart, adapt the remaining lyrics to suit, find a singer who can do a good impression of Ray Charles and re-record it with the same orchestral arrangement.

    Set up sound systems at YES street stalls and also have loudspeaker vans blaring out the message.

  44. 10/30 says:

    The place to be next week, for all Scots, is outside Holyrood showing our support for the vote for the referendum.

  45. ChewinTheFat says:

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely legal for Mayhem to “block” IndyRef2 and the fact that all the power does not rely on her say-so.

    Surely the UN will have something to say about her doing this if it was true that is.

    And even if she DID try and block IndyRef2, she is just pushing people to vote Yes… so surely “blocking” it would not work out on her part?

    We will get our IndyRef2 so I know I am not worried. I have complete faith in Sturgeon and trust she would never stand for Scotland’s democracy to be shat over the top of like that. I trust she will do everything in her power to ensure our democracy here in Scotland.

    IndyRef2 WILL happen… whether Mayhem and the rest of her cronies like it or not.

  46. Luigi says:

    The more this nonsense unfolds, the more it appears that TM and her yoon press corps are being played like a fiddle.

    Can’t wait for Nicola’s next move.:)
    (you can bet it was already planned)

    POCORN! POPCORN!

  47. Jack Murphy says:

    “Her Scottish Secretary, David Mundell, has tweeted that holding a referendum before Brexit would be “not fair and can’t be agreed”.
    From BBC Scotland on-line.

    We can always depend on Scotland’s Man in the Tory Cabinet to agree with the lady Tory MP for Maidenhead in Berkshire.
    It’s a shame really.

  48. Abulhaq says:

    If signs indicated a major swing to independence ‘now’ would certainly never come. Unionism aka BritState is conspicuously well financed and well armed with ‘divide and rule’ propaganda media so this is going to be a fight to the death. We have the moral high ground but we are also highly visible, subvertible and maybe just too reluctant to engage in some ‘dirty tricks’ of our own. We should be less squeamish. A dose of the Spectator’s anti-Scotch bile innoculates the system.

  49. Robert Peffers says:

    @Almannysbunnet says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:28 pm:

    “… We’ll see if various spokesmen are rolled out to clarify things over the next few hours.”

    Yer joking, Radio Jockland was trotting out their line of, “Experts”, that they had obviously previously lined up, and kept waiting in the wings for the prompt, within seconds of the Did-May statement.

    It is impossible to have lined up so many, “Experts”, in the time between May stopping talking and dragging out the BBC, “Pundits”, with comments. In fact most of those numpties can’t think on their feet so fast in the time between May stopping talking and them giving the load of lies.

  50. nodrog says:

    Northern Ireland have just over a week left to make up your mind time and if that goes badly Theresa will be in quite a spin. Brexit more like Tsumamexit.

  51. Capella says:

    “It would be unfair to the people of Scotland that they would be being asked to make a crucial decision without the information they need to make that decision.”

    Theresa May is saying that we will not have the crucial information in TWO YEARS time.

    Can you imagine the next 2 years of BREXIT discussions with none of us in Scotland being any the wiser about what is being discussed?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

  52. galamcennalath says:

    Nicola’s immediate response…

    ” Nicola Sturgeon? @NicolaSturgeon
    @scotgov is not proposing #scotref now…but when the terms of Brexit clear and before it is too late to choose an alternative path. 1/4

    Nicola Sturgeon? @NicolaSturgeon
    2/4 a section 30 order must be discussed and agreed now to enable that timescale.

    Nicola Sturgeon? @NicolaSturgeon
    3/3 If the Tories refuse to do so, they would effectively be blocking Scotland’s right to choose when the Brexit terms clear…

    Nicola Sturgeon? @NicolaSturgeon
    4/4 this would be undemocratic given @scotgov clear mandate and also proof positive that the Tories fear the verdict of the Scottish people.

    Nicola Sturgeon? @NicolaSturgeon
    One last point – if PM thinks we won’t know terms of Brexit by autumn next year, she must think her own timetable will fail. “

  53. Proud Cybernat says:

    If May had been a tad smarter, she would have totally called Nicola’s bluff by calling her own IndyRef2 in Scotland. Let’s face it – without knowing in advance Scotland’s long-term constitutional position, May will be going into Brexit negotiations with one hand tied behind her back. Imagine the scene:

    UK: “We will allow access tot he North Sea fishing grounds in return for passport rights for our banking sector.”

    EU: Fuck off, ya walloper. That’s Scottish territorial waters and there’s no guarantee Scotland will remain with the UK so it’s not in your gift to make such an offer. Anything else up yer sleeve? Anything?”

  54. Dek says:

    Vestas at 1.47

    Yes,get a grip and calm down. Anyone advocating civil disobedience or a popular uprising is playing into the hands of the unionists.

  55. FergusMac says:

    The English establishment is fighting for its existence, so all gloves are off. A look at any history book will remind you how vicious they can be when they are up against it.

    Losing us would torpedo their credit rating below the waterline, and they would lose the fortune they steal from Scotland every year.

    One great thing this time is that they have no allies anywhere in the world. They have just pissed off the whole EU, Trump regards them as a joke, the Old Commonwealth hasn’t forgotten how Australia and NZ were dropped right in the sticky smelly stuff when the UK waved two fingers at them on joining the Common Market in the first place. The whole of Latin America (except possibly Chile – they would probably just quietly ignore it) would back Argentina and do the English no favours.

    And we have Oor Nicola. She could buy and sell that whole cabinet of Tory lightweights and get change. Though, sadly, we do have far too many people in public life in Scotland who march to the beat of an English drum.

    Keep the faith and keep the heid!

  56. galamcennalath says:

    Proud Cybernat says:

    EU: That’s Scottish … and there’s no guarantee Scotland will remain with the UK so it’s not in your gift

    Excellent point!

  57. DerekM says:

    Check those tory attack dogs go lol

    Shame all their lauded one did was shit her knickers and go hide back under the cabinet table.

    now is not the time for what to ask you this question?

    now is not the time because i need a big shit?

    now is not the time because i have to go get my hair done?

    now is not the time because i have to hide under the cabinet table again?

    Hey mayhem want to hear a scary story A50 SECTION 30 vile cybernats 🙂

  58. William Wallace says:

    Can anyone tell me the name of the browser plugin that captures a snapshot of an entire web page (article and comments)? It was mentioned on here in another article last week but I can’t find seem to find it.

    I’d like to go over a lot of comments I have seen over the last few days in various media outlets to hand-pick the best ones. There is such a barrage of articles/comments at the moment that I am finding it hard to keep track of it all or to quote them all individually.

  59. John H. says:

    This is possibly what the SG wanted. If we hold a referendum without a section 30 Order, then surely we can make the rules to suit ourselves without Westminster input, re postal votes and everything else. Suits me.

  60. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Truthless giving a press conference live on TV at the moment, and acting as if she were First Minister.

    “The SNP have to earn the right”, or some such arrant nonsense. As if they haven’t already.

    What a bumptious sockpuppet she truly is.

  61. heedtracker says:

    Christ just turned on BBC 24 news and Ruth Davidson/Fluffie together on podium, with “breaking news” tickertape, about?

    Its not fair to have ref2, SNP must earn right to hold indy ref 2, from tory sock puppets even more unpopular than Thatcher mob was, in Scotland. And now beeb gimps cut off the two tories, in very shaky Q&A performance too. Funny that.

  62. Breastplate says:

    Davidson and Mundell have thrown the toys out of the pram and have said they’re not going to talk about independence at all, so there, na an nana na.
    Quite funny and entertaining.

  63. sensibledave says:

    Auld Rock at 1:34 pm

    You wrote: “Our MP’s should now walk out of Westminster citing the United Nations Rights to Self Determination or somly just declare UDI.

    Just so I know how much thought you have given to your suggested strategy Auld Rock, could you let me know what you anticipate the the majority (as counted the last time the electorate was asked to express a view on Scottish Independence) will do in response to the UDI declaration?

  64. Phil Robertson says:

    FatCandy says:
    16 March, 2017 at 1:23 pm
    “The earliest date in the range suggested by Nicola Sturgeon is over a year and a half away” – To Labour that’s a generation and a half away

    I think you’ll find Nicola Sturgeon is the original shrinker of the length of a generation!

  65. Breeks says:

    Is Theresa May a Jedi Knight fan by any chance? I’m sure see the hand of Yoda in her deliveries.

    mmMMmm.. Brexit means Brexit Master Luke.
    MmmM.. Blue, white and red Brexit it is.
    MmMmm.. No Deal better than bad deal.
    Mhmm… Nicola, powerful you have become. I sense the dark side in you…

    So now we’ve got “Now is not the time”…. So yet again, nobody knows anything, and virtually everybody can charge about in the wrong direction forming whatever impression they like about what the mysterious Theresa did or didn’t say.

    Theresa May is just a great big yawn. The EU is yawning waiting for Theresa May to tigger Article 50, the SNP has had a long yawn waiting for a response to their white paper, the whole UK has felt a great yawn waiting to hear what Brexit is actually going to mean, and even the US is yawning, because they know May has nothing to offer.

    Now we have another great yawn ahead of us trying to decipher the cryptic meaning of “Now is not the time”.

    I think Theresa May is doing a Yoda when getting her words out of sync. She wants her premiership remembered for its profound, Thatcher-like gravitas and imperial grandeur, while beyond the quotes, there is nothing of any great substance worth remembering. Once the Press has its meaty quote for the day, everybody can go home because the ideas stop stone dead.

    Know what Nicola? Just take it as a No, and press the go button. The UK is adrift and masterless. To save the innocent, we must first save ourselves. Theresa May cares more about her leather britches than the great calamity her Party has brought down up the UK.

    Know what? I reckon if popped down to Downing Street, I’m pretty sure you’d find the keys for Scotland hanging on a nail behind the door. If we just go and take them, I don’t anybody will try to stop us.

  66. Rob James says:

    At this rate a prospective no vote in the forthcoming referendum is disappearing over the horizon almost at the same rate of knots that the tories are hurtling towards the cliff edge.

    Yesterday saw the Tory chancellor making a U turn within days of his budget. It also saw their Brexit minister display an alarming inability to answer simple questions about the financial impact of a hard Brexit. ( I hope that the ‘no’ voting Tory farmers were watching. They might just realise how badly they are going to be shafted).

    Next up was the revelation that financial passporting is out the windae.

    This was followed by a verbal demolition of Theresa May where she once more doggedly refused to answer any questions, preferring to lapse into some distant parallel universe where good old blighty ruled the waves. I was waiting for her to burst into a rendition of ‘There will always be an England.’ Perhaps a more fitting song would be ‘There’ll be Tories over, the White Cliffs of Dover.’

    And to add icing to the cake we had The “Scottish” Libdums paltry political broadcast starring oor Wullie, who sounded as if he was reading a fairy story to the local nursery. His slogan “We are winning again” had about as much veracity as his claim that over a million people in Scotland have mental health problems. That means that one of the Libdums MSPs has mental health problems. Guess which one I’m putting my money on, Wullie.

  67. Bob Mack says:

    Can you smell the FEEAARRR !!!! If this does not prove to Scots how valuable we must be then nothing will.
    The Tories kick the disabled,rob the poor,give to the wealthy without batting an eyelid, but something has them really scared now. Guess what ?

  68. Clapper57 says:

    Sign parliament petition on 2nd Scots Indy ref :

    ‘Agree to a second referendum on Scottish Independence’ currently standing at 21,856.

    Yoon petition against second Indy ref currently stands at 155,727.

  69. Robert Louis says:

    As pointed out recently on the internet, The Scottish Tories stood on a platform of opposing a second referendum in Scotland at the Scottish Parliament elections last year. The Tories lost. The SNP won on a platfrom of holding a referendum if Scotland was taken out of the EU against its will.

    That is democracy. THAT is a mandate.

  70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Phil Robertson,

    The only “shrinker” here is Theresa May – shrinking from the prospect of letting all the people of Scotland have their fair say.

    Because she’s feart.

    A coward with a me-too puppet Truthless dancing at her bidding.

  71. One_Scot says:

    Thereas May, Ruth Davidson and David Mundell have just tried to push Scotland back down into the box. The hypocrisy from them regarding the excuse for not allowing a referendum is staggering.

    Scotland really does need to now stand up and and stay up as they are clearly trying to crush us. The SNP will have to come up with a good response at the weekend to gain some control over this situation.

  72. Proud Cybernat says:

    “I think you’ll find Nicola Sturgeon is the original shrinker of the length of a generation!”

    As was famously noted by Harold Wilson:

    “A week is a long time in politics.”

    Well, 24 months is a generation in politics, ya roaster!

  73. Elaine Deighan says:

    Mike at 1.47, thank you my friend, first person to make me giggle today x

  74. Capella says:

    @ william wallace – on chrome it’s called Full Page Capture and you can get it in the extensions page. Alternatively, you probably already have a capture tool. Click on the three dots at the top right hand of the address bar -> More tools -> Save Page As
    or just press Ctrl S

    I think on firefox you right click on the top bar of the browser.

  75. K1 says:

    Hahahhahaa…May’s fucked it. She can’t stop it, now or ever. Watch Nicola complete our mandate for section 30 over next week or so, if and only ‘if then’ Westminster refuse to ratify will we know whether they reject it.

    That’s it. The rest as atl points out is merely the fear sweat of the msm convulsing in unison at the prospect of our lifeboat being readied for deployment. We’re going and there is nothing any of them can do to prevent it.

    Stay steady and let the phoney fucks play wi themselves…circle jerking is all they have left…wankers gonnae be wankers.

  76. Mike says:

    Is it me or has the UK MSM stopped taking its medication?

  77. Nana says:

    I posted this yesterday

    http://archive.is/Pr0Tv

    and today Aileen says

    Aileen McHarg? @AileenMcHarg says

    Theresa May is daft to get into an argument about process.

  78. Robert Graham says:

    As every news network has mayhem blocking a referendum during Brexit talks, eh forgive me for being stupid, if as some people are saying it’s a PR stunt, EH and the point of this is ? It totally baffles me I can’t see what is to be gained.

  79. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Haud oan boays – keep the heid – nothing has happened.

    May is stalling for time, waiting for someone to tell her what to do, because she hasn’t a clue. She only got the top job because she wasn’t Boris, or Gove, and there was nobody else. The civil servants in Westminster are well aware, she was an accident waiting to happen as Home Secretary – a job she got which was way above her pay grade.

    The accident didn’t happen when she was at the Home Office, but, it has happened now she is PM.

    I watched her reaction to Angus Robertson’s and Callum McCaig’s questions yesterday; she was tense, nervous and didn’t have much of a clue what to say – she is way out of her depth and will make a lot of mistakes, before “the men in the grey suits” turn up and quietly suggest she stands down for the good of the Party, to let Boris run things.

    We just have to keep paying-out the rope and wait 18-months, difficult though this might be as Mayhem really breaks out.

  80. Breeks says:

    Luigi’s POPCORN POPCORN got me giggling…

  81. Robert Peffers says:

    @Calum MacKay says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:30 pm:

    “UDI is the only option starting with a withdrawal of Scottish MPs (56 out of 59).”

    Whoa! There, Calum. It is not legally possible for a majority of the people of Scotland to declare UDI as UDI is an illegal act but if a majority of Scots give a legally elected Scottish Government, (or indeed any other organised and recognised body that represents them, a mandate to do any particular thing then, because under the Scottish Rule of Law, then it is a legal action and thus is not UDI.

    It is the legally expressed will of the legally sovereign people of Scotland and anyone who stands against the will of the legally sovereign people of Scotland are the ones who are breaking Scottish Law.

    So, correct me if I’m wrong, but are not the SG mandated to hold a referendum as they are the elected government of Scotland who were elected on a manifesto that contained just such a promise?

    Also, if the SG do hold a referendum, whether it has a section 30 order or not, and the result is that Scotland is withdrawing from the United Kingdom then that too is a legal action by the MPs, MSPs and MEPs the legally sovereign people of Scotland chose to represent them.

    However, I imagine that Nicola will not be so direct as that but will either try to have Scotland remain within the EU, taking the then did-United Kingdom’s seat at the table. (The myth that if the kingdoms of Scotland and England split up will leave behind an rUnited Kingdom is total pish).

    When one, or other, of the only two Kingdoms of, “The Union”, withdraws from the Union then the Treaty of Union that united the two ends with a return to the Status Quo Ante, (The status as before the Union), of both partner kingdoms.

    No where is there any written law that says either Kingdom cannot retain the EU membership. Indeed that may well be a legal matter for the EU parliament to decide. However, their whole ethos is based upon seeking to unite Europe and treat both member states and all EU citizens as equal. Do thus do otherwise is not within EU rules/laws or legal mechanisms.

    It would thus require the EU parliament to change EU laws to either throw out Scotland or any Scottish/EU citizens and I believe, when push comes to shove, the EU will be unwilling to do so.

    ATM: The EU must, by its own rules, continue to treat the UK as the member state. However, if the SG were to pre-empt that status by ending the Union then Scotland, England and the EU are into a quite different ball game.

    Factually it then puts the onus upon Westminster to prove where their legal claims of holding overall sovereignty over Scotland comes from. I’ve been actively studying this matter all my adult life and cannot find and actual evidence, (other than the Westminster say so of, “Because we say so”), is in existence.

  82. Bob Mack says:

    Nicola has played a blinder. The best politician on these islands by a country mile. Possibly even the best or one of the best in Europe, She has forced May into a corner and made her proclaim a “them and us ” situation. Nicola has forced the Tories to openly declare that the wishes of Scotland are irrelevant.

    This is dynamite and the best recruiter in the world. Never,never tell a Scottish what they can or cannot do especially in their own country.

    I take my hat off to you Nicola Sturgeon. Brilliant tactics.

  83. Golfnut says:

    Posted at the end of the last thread something similar to this.
    Nicola will go ahead with seeking authority from the Scottish Parliament to agree terms with UK gov on a section 30 order.( Nicola, has I believe already asked rooth if her gov will ignore the will of this Parliament, Holyrood, haven’t seen it yet so don’t know how it was answered)
    We will get lots of msm froth and flecks on this, since it will be illegal, etc, arrogance etc,etc.

    May didn’t refuse a referendum, and Nicola didn’t ask for one.

    Just more fake news, but very useful to the Indy cause.

  84. call me dave says:

    Mundell and Ruthie giving it large on the BBC Shortbread’s web site. A press conference a wee while ago but still there on playback.

    Can’t hear the Qs on the tape, just the Tory Duo laying out their case.

    Ruthie all smiles with some prepared scribblings and seems to be in charge, Mundell playing second fiddle.

    Lots of verbal darts re: First Minister who ‘overstepped today at FMQs’ they say.

    14mins long. job done!

  85. heedtracker says:

    Sensibledave and Phil Robertson? somethings got the tories excited.

    Really weak performance there BBC Scotland press conf coverage with tory clowns Ruth and the Fluffster NO to ref 2 speech, they do NOT fear ref 2, but they do dread it. Fluffie says he’s not going to enjoy ref 2, Ruth waffles something, two clowns slouch off stage.

    Rule Britannia.

    Are we really going to lose Scotland to this mad tory set up, all propped up by assorted tory beeb gimps?

  86. bigG says:

    She is probably just playing for time while her backroom boys work out a way they can fix it in their favour without the electoral commission finding out and fining them again

  87. Nana says:

    @Macart

    error 404 on the page

  88. Dan Huil says:

    Ooooh! Fluffy says no! We’ve just been savaged by a sheep – a toothless one at that.

  89. Desimond says:

    No plate spinner extraordinaire could manage what Therea May is trying to do right now.

    Brexit, Expenses Scandal, Leadership Whispers, Chancellor U-Turns and now Facing up to Scotland.

    She should have let it go, played the “under advisement” card and let the pot go back to a warm simmer. Now shes in danger of tipping it all over her leopardskin shoes.

    Even Kezia Dugdale is feeling shes out of her depth and under the cosh!

  90. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Yep. Seen that. Tried from all sources including original link which I used. Looks like the page has been closed down.

  91. Nana says:

    @Macart

    here it is

    http://archive.is/aW3Vr

  92. K1 says:

    ‘Are we really going to lose Scotland to this mad tory set up, all propped up by assorted tory beeb gimps?’

    Fool us once shame on Westminster

    Fool us twice shame on Scotland

    Simple really.

  93. Breastplate says:

    Davidson and Mundell were wheeled out in front of the cameras only to try and spike the SNP and Green guns next week in parliament.

  94. William Wallace says:

    @ Capella 2:31

    Thank you. Much appreciated.

    I want to save it all in image format rather than a saved page as I think it will be easier to cut the quotes in an image editor and put them all together as a collage of sorts.

    Thanks again.

  95. Macart says:

    Thankfully, looks as though our host archived the piece.

    Here: http://archive.is/aW3Vr

    🙂

  96. call me dave says:

    This was from WoS Twitter apparently was taken down shortly after but was copied.
    ———————————————————
    May just handed Nicola Sturgeon the greatest gift she could ever ask for

    https://archive.is/SB025

  97. call me dave says:

    @Macart.
    Well done (snap)

  98. Dorothy Devine says:

    Glad I didn’t see the dynamic duo perform – Ms Harrison in particular gets far more air time than she merits.

    OT But as one who lives in a terraced house in the dear green place , and whose tree lined street has not been cleaned since 2016 , the GCC in its infinite generosity and wisdom has put my rates up to 2,651 pounds and 55p only!

    I calculate that from a street of 60 houses they are coining in over 159,000 – you’d think they might just be able to clean the drains and gutters of leaves and mud for that.

    Meanwhile , I suspect that they are going to leave them until the autumn of 2018 and kill 2 birds with one stone.

    But maybe Glasgow will not have a Labour controlled council any more and the books will be open to scrutiny.

  99. Maren says:

    Doesn’t this hysterical mis-reporting of a non-answer do more harm to Theresa May than Nicola Sturgeon?

    1) As the ScotRef is planned for the time when we should know the Brexit deal, we can now credibly argue that the only reason to block ScotRef is that she’s scared that we’ll win

    2) This kind of headline is exactly what some undecideds need to push them over the edge. A Westminster politician telling them “I won’t allow it” is going to get their backs up big time.

    3) If she does block, imagine the line of argument that goes

    – okay then ScotRef will be an advisory ref, just like the EU ref.
    – If we win that, then “it’s the will of the people” that we should be independent
    – consequently there would be a vote in ScotParl on declaring UDI and
    – SLAB/SLIB/SCON MSPs would be told well, your parties all said “we must follow the will of the people after that last advisory ref, so you have no right to oppose this now (obviously, they would disagree and tell us all how it’s different anyway)

    4) If she does grant the Section 30 order after all, to the people who’ve just seen all those misleading headlines it’ll look like a climb down/u-turn. It’ll maker her look weaker and the Scottish undecideds will still be pissed off.

  100. Edward says:

    Cant help thinking that this is all choreographed by Number 10

    If you take what May actually stated during the Peston interview and compare that with the avalanche of newspaper and tv news reporting on what May said, you see slight differences
    which suggest that number 10 issued a press release that had the words ‘block’ and ‘refuse’ in it, despite the fact that the only think that May stated was ‘not now’

    Now following from two of May’s advisor’s having gone to Scotland to meet Davidson, we have the spectacle of Davidson and Mundell holding a press conference to repeat what May has stated, but will no doubt elaborate using more of the number 10 breifings

    Will journalists ask hard questions ? doubt it

  101. Macart says:

    @call me dave

    You just knew Nana would get there first though. 😀

    On topic.

    Remember folks ….caaaaaaallllmmmmm!

    A Westminster Tory behaving like a Westminster Tory. Who knew? 🙂

  102. rogerM says:

    Don’t interrupt your enemy …

  103. K1 says:

    Ian Dunt’s (no friend of independence) from politics.co.uk article is worth reposting over and over again…he has the ‘nub’ of it…read and spread widely:

    ‘May just handed Nicola Sturgeon the greatest gift she could ever ask for’

    http://archive.is/aW3Vr

  104. Desimond says:

    @Edward makes a good point.

    I remember Private Eye often citing the suggestion on how Robert Peston was always available to Nbr 10 to help with presenting an appropriate question or raising a suitable reference on air when needed in return for a seat at the table and a slice of the Establishment cake.

  105. Mike says:

    Borg Queen: Its no a Hive collective its a Union.

    Galaxy Media: Whats the difference?

    Borg Queen: See this probe?………..

    Galaxy Media: A cannae take ma eyes aff it… Ah wait a minute!

    Galaxy Media: Aye of course a U-n-I-o-n yer Godessness.

    Poundshop Borg Queen: How come ah dinnae get a probe?

  106. K1 says:

    The Dunt article hasn’t been pulled, it’s also open for comments…just sayin’

    Reposting non archived version in case people want to add their voices…

    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/03/16/may-just-handed-nicola-sturgeon-the-greatest-gift#comments

  107. Proud Cybernat says:

    BBC saying Mayhem has rejected the FM’s timetable for a 2nd IndyRef but was careful not to rule out a second vote.

    How exactly does “now is not the time” rule out the FM’s timetable for a second vote? I mean, HOW? Effing BBC liars.

  108. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bill McDermott says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:32 pm:

    “I agree with you Rev on the facts of the case, but Theresa May is nevertheless on the front foot in the immediate term.”

    Eh! How do you figure that out Bill?

    Has not the Rev Stu just explained that the Westminster, and thus May’s, claims that they can stop a referendum taking place are all bluff, bluster and bullshit?

    The Section 30 is only an agreement of both sides to treat the results of a referendum as legally binding. It does not either have the powers to stop the SG from holding a referendum or conversely forcing one upon them.

    So all Nicola needs do is let Dis-May waffle on and allow the Westminster Establishment propaganda machine to attempt to tell the World, including the 27 EU Member states, that Westminster will not allow the SG to hold a referendum and end up with egg all over their faces when they cannot prevent it. I feel a new English Supreme Court case coming on.

    I have no doubt that Nicola will indeed have quite a bit to say at National Conference, (note how Nicola engineered all this to explode on the eve of National Conference).

    A rather big head of steam has already been built up of United Kingdom pressure that the referendum is to be prevented by Westminster. Far as I can see there isn’t a safety valve, that pressure is likely to blow up in the Establishment’s face. It will thus, without doubt bring to the fore the little matter of sovereignty and that is the crux of the entire matter.

    It has been skulking in the dim shadowy corridors of the Westminster Establishment for several centuries but is about to find itself blinded by being brought into the full glare of the light of day – and not before time.

  109. heedtracker says:

    Nice display of tory propaganda from Graun. Norman Smith also blitzing beeb gimp’s airwaves with, ” Our lovely, patient and wise Prime Minister, drives wedge between horrid Sturgeon and actual lovely Scottish types, who dont want uncertainty.”

    ‘Now is not the time’: May on second Scottish referendum
    Heather Stewart, Peter Walker and Severin Carrell
    Thursday 16 March 2017 13.51 GMT

    Scottish independence

    Theresa May rejects Nicola Sturgeon’s referendum demand

    British PM does not rule out second independence referendum but says vote would have to take place after Brexit”

    All clear? Indyref2 blocked Scotland, well not blocked, postponed, its for your own good and it iss blocked, but not blocked, we;ll give you one, if you’re good, and STOP voting SNP, its not British, and yes, indyref2 is blocked, for your own good, you if don’t know what Brexit is and if we did let you have indyref 2, you might not know what your’e voting for, so its blocked.

    Its great being governed by England, isn’t it:D

  110. I posted this on WGD’s earlier.
    I am too beside myself with rage, to expand just yet.
    BBC Scotland might as well close down now. Sara Laura and the two Andrews are so much better at the sort of propaganda porn that Reporting the Parish’s Sally Magnusson and Co., churned out today.
    It’s really worrying that they’re still fox hunting in Jedburgh, mind though, but.

    “Well, that’s it,
    May has spoken.
    Back in your box, ye Sweaties.
    You are an English colony.
    It matters not that your returned 56 SNP MPs.
    It matters not that you returned an SNP Holyrood Administration for a third time.
    It matters not that 62%, all 32 LA’s, voted to Remain in Europe, May as unelected leader of the Blue English Tories has spoken. Scotland is not a country. WE are a Region of England, and England voted to Leave.
    You are being taken out of the EU against your will, and you can’t have a Referendum on Self Government, so there.
    You don’t matter.
    You are an occupied nation.
    BBC Reporting Scotland.
    David Porter outside the HoC.
    According to him, May was ‘choosing her words very carefully’.
    It was a rebuff of the Bad SNP wummin, Nicola Sturgeon, not the Scottish people.
    This was David Porter’s interpretation of the Tory Grande Dame’s ‘carefully chosen words’.
    My eye.
    It is a rebuff of the people of Scotland.
    Look at the electoral returns , Mr Porter. Try reporting rather than acting as a Tory mouthpiece.
    Sally Magnusson patched us over to Toodle Oo The Noo Taylor, and he postulated that May meant 2020, 2021, or even beyond. ‘Way into the dim and distant future in other words. Not in my lifetime, Brian.
    I’m seventy this year. Fuck off. We go now.
    As an aside, can we have Severin Carrell replaced as the voice of the Scottish Press please? The usual Tory Unionist guff from the Dead Tree Talking Heads post PMQ.
    If Holyrood votes to trigger a S30 Order, and May refuses, we go it alone.
    BBC Scotland and the Unionists have seriously underestimated the mood of the nation.
    Next item on Reporting the Parish ( Donalda has attempted to reduce Scotland to a wee backwater) ‘Figures obtained by the BBC’, NHS SNP BAD Department.
    One third of averse events and maternity deaths not actioned. Interview with bereaved father, and it’s all the fucking nasty SNP’s fault.
    A third and final item. Two men are being prosecuted in Jedburgh for foxhunting.
    And that’s the BBC News from Scotland, that wee quiet backward colony of England.
    It’s all kicking off now.
    Taylor, Porter, May has insulted the people of Scotland; NOT Nicola Sturgeon.
    We’re as mad as hell, and we’re not going to take it any more.
    No quote from Davidson, Dugdale, and following today’s performance at FMQ, the utterly hope little lickspittle that is Willie Rennie?
    I wonder why?”

  111. clan rossy says:

    wheesht wheesht and thrice wheesht

    sit doon dae as yer telt, haud yer horses
    noos nae the time , get back in yer fuckin
    wee box

    heh, heh well done nicola mays took the bait
    hook line and sinker .

    mainstream mms goes into overdrive heh heh

    popcorn time

    next news

    scotland to be invaded by planet plinkplonkimagonk

    breaking ruthie and mundie to get married

    next wee willie and kez to climb olmpus mons oan mars
    kitted out wi moon boot trainers fi peggy duncans

    shoe shop niddrie mains road edinburgh heh heh

    more to come git the kettle on

    unionists whit they like eh

  112. schrodingers cat says:

    interviewer, it would be an illegitimate referendum without a section 30?

    kirsty blackman, it isnt something we are planning to do

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08jnwlt/newsnight-14032017

    13.15 in

  113. geeo says:

    This reminds me of something Cameron said during a live tv debate in 2015 election campaign.

    When asked if his he would cut some benefit (cannot remember what it was, sorry) he replied “we would not want to do that, No”.

    Of course he did and when challenged, he said, “we didn’t WANT to do it, but…”

    Always check the exact wording with these people.

  114. schrodingers cat says:

    without a section 30, i am unsure a yes result in indyref2 would be recognised by the eu or the un

    this face off has been in the post for sometime
    now what?

  115. galamcennalath says:

    Media starting to use the word Scoxit.

    I don’t like it. It rhymes with toxic … which is an adjective reserved for the Tories!

    I think we should push Scoot 🙂

    (I saw scoot somewhere else, so don’t claim invention!)

  116. HYPERMUNI says:

    Best news ever cutting her own throat. lets see what happens next. she was not making a political decision but an emotional one because she felt she was being undermined by the Scottish first Minister. She was essentially pissed off and and had now f*cked up. Love it it.
    Thatcher 2. What a moron

  117. Angry Weegie says:

    “It would be unfair to the people of Scotland that they would be being asked to make a crucial decision without the information they need to make that decision.”

    On the other hand, decisions on Brexit can be made without any information at all.

  118. clan rossy says:

    jack collatin 3.13

    westminster govt = dictators
    scottish unionists = ("Tractor" - Ed)s

    and no one here can deny it

    simples

  119. schrodingers cat says:

    whether may has handed nicola a gift…. we will find out in the next opinion poll

  120. Robert Peffers says:

    @Vestas says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:47 pm:

    ” … Fucking hell guys get a grip!” … “Its just the start & some of you are losing the plot already.”

    Ha!Ha!Ha! Dear! Oh! Dear!

    Whatever gave you the daft idea anyone here is losing the plot, Vestas?

    This is going exactly the way most of us thought it would go. Right up to the fighting fund, announced by Nicola, that is screeching up faster than a USA, anti-missile, missile going up from the Cape.

    It isn’t going to go away this time and I get the feeling that the Westminster Unionists know it isn’t going away.

  121. heedtracker says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    16 March, 2017 at 3:17 pm
    interviewer, it would be an illegitimate referendum without a section 30?

    It is blocked SC. And then no one knows when PM Mayhem is going to decide Brexit is an actual thing, what we can say is happening.

    It could be blocked indefinitely like this. Only way out, change of UK gov with 2020 GE.

    Unless…

  122. sensibledave says:

    heedtracker at 2:39 pm

    You wrote “Sensibledave and Phil Robertson? somethings got the tories excited.”

    I.. Did you miss my comment to you towards the end of the previous thread?

    2. I disassociate myself completely from Phil Robertson

    3. With respect to the whole will there/wont there be an indyref2 – I am a bit excited – because it is all so interesting to watch/hear and that is what I love about politics!

    So far, my assessment is that we are heading down the track I suggested a few days ago. May wont say no, she will say not now (as she has done – why don’t you listen to me more?).

    May will attempt to portray Sturgeon as a desperate, opportunist wrecker whilst Sturgeon looks to portray May as the Overbearing occupier daring to challenge the will of the Scottish people.

    I expect May to soften her line in the coming months. She will start to intimate that she will not oppose a second indyref – but it has to be after the Brexit deal is ratified so that the people of Scotland can make an informed choice based upon the deal that has been agreed – rather than being bounced out into a future outside of the EU and outside of the UK just because Sturgeon thinks its her last chance before she looses her job.

  123. heedtracker says:

    So in UKOK precis, “Yes ofcourse you can have indyref2 Scottish types, just not now.”

    When?

    “Soon.”

    How soon?

    “Soon.”

    Meanwhile, and for next decade, Pacific Quay led media war on SNP continues apace, relentless monstering of everything Scotland, self belief and confidence especially, local rags Neo Fascist Voice of The North Press and Journal, your speciality.

    Who actually needs a ballot box in the tory UK zone?

  124. Marcia says:

    May does not have a good hand of cards. Interesting the words being used by the Tories. ‘Not now’, ‘any request at this point..’

    Looking forward to another U-turn.

  125. ScottishPsyche says:

    What is so tragic is that this entire Brexit mess was enabled on Tory fraud. Their single minded pursuit of winning at any cost – because they can afford it – means they could target marginal seats and have that referendum.

    To say there is no mandate for a Scottish referendum when they got into government by dubious means is beyond hypocrisy. We are witnessing one of the darkest times ever in UK democracy.

  126. Clootie says:

    The unionist media are only assisting in her “test the water” challenge.

    Her loyal scot buts have been telling her the voters don’t want it. This lets her gauge the reaction without actually saying anything.

    “They will turn on Nicola” if we reject their vote briefs Routhie and pound shop Ruthie.
    Mundell is the true voice of Scotland they wail.
    Meantime Willie Rennie is asking his doorstep expert Chritine Jardine what is the mood….”they are all keen to vote LibDem and stay in Europe Willie”

    I think I will wait for next weeks Holyrood vote and the official Westminster response before I get excited.

  127. Dan Huil says:

    Keep our eyes on Catalonia. And Northern Ireland. Scotland is not alone. I believe the EU will help us out as much as possible – probably quietly. They dislike Westminster as much as we do.

  128. Marcia says:

    The UN charter about self-determination may have been overlooked by the May Government.

    http://www.unpo.org/article/4957

  129. heedtracker says:

    sensibledave says:
    16 March, 2017 at 3:32 pm
    heedtracker at 2:39 pm

    You wrote “Sensibledave and Phil Robertson? somethings got the tories excited.”

    Am not reading that lot of tory gibberish sensible. Rejoice sensible, you leaderene has saved English control of Scotland again, for at least a generation.

    And all she had to do was say, YES you can have indyref2, just not yet, soon though, once we all know how wonderful Brexit really is, and as we all know sensible, Brexit is going to be the greatest Brexit ever, and Empire 2’s on the way, too.

    Rule Englandtannia sensibledave. You should try and catch that pair of feels, Ruth D and the Fluffster today, on their “yes you can have a ref2 but not now” BBC Scotland podiums sensible. And all with 22% of Scots vote, i tory MP Westminster MP, even more hated in Scotland than they were in Snatcher Thatcher’s reign.

    Its a mad mad UKOK tory world sensible, as you display.

  130. orri says:

    Her reasoning was that the threat of another independence referendum made Brexit negotiations harder.

    youtu.be/JDSPwexlyTo

    Negotiations involving the resources and territory of Scotland are going to be ever so majorly harder when you can give no guarantee that you won’t lose any rights over them before the ink has even had time to dry.

  131. sensibledave says:

    Heedy 3.35

    My comments are about what I think will happen.

    I don’t work on the basis that one side is made up of brilliant tacticians that have have meticulously planed and game played out the scenario, whilst the other is a bunch of amateurs that are just winging it and only responding to what their opposition did/said last.

    I assume that some clever people, with brains, on both sides are involved in a longer game. May wants a Brexit and wants to be in the strongest position to negotiate that Brexit. Sturgeon wants to wreck the negotiations as much as possible and make the deal as bad/hard as possible so that Scots will be less inclined to want to remain in the UK.

    More popcorn please!

  132. schrodingers cat says:

    funny, only 2 days ago on daily politics

    ruth davidson , tory msp, tomkin, tory msp, and dugdale, slab msp, said they would oppose it in holyrood but that it would be undemocratic for westminster to block it, both of them

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b08jnwlh/daily-politics-14032017

    20.40

    treeza must have missed the memo

  133. Bob Mack says:

    This is a game of poker. Each side playing one card at a time to see if the other will fold. The stakes are raised between cards and both hope the other will fold first.

    Nobody,but nobody has gone all in yet. Nicola knew that the odds for indy were pretty even. She had to manage the expectations of indy supporters whilst bringing others on board. This and subsequent arrogant actions by the Tories will do that very thing for her.

    If you doubt this ,remember that Scotland used to be conservative with a small.
    Margaret Thatcher thought she could also dictate to the Scottish people and treat them as she deigned. She learned better. Mrs May will also learn that there is something in the psyche of the Scots that resists being domineering by anyone, including herself.

    Expect Nicola to raise the stakes yet again.

  134. Robert Peffers says:

    @galamcennalath says: 16 March, 2017 at 1:50 pm:

    ” … Then dare May not to issue an Article 30 prior to that date.
    We want ScotRef to be hanging over May throughout the Brexit talks. We don’t want her to think it’s been kicked off into the never never”

    Wait up, galamcennalath, have you not realised by now that the section 39 order does not stop the SG holding a referendum? The section 30 was an agreement between the SG and Westminster governments that both sides would treat the result of the referendum as legally binding. It was not permission from Westminster to hold indyref 1. As such a Section 39 order can neither stop nor prevent the SG holding a referendum.

    That means Westminster cannot use a Section 30, or refuse to sign a Section 30 order to stop the proposed referendum.

    If they want to stop it they will need to use some other means of doing so. What they might mean is quite something to contemplate. Perhaps a Supreme Court Ruling, perhaps a direct order from Westminster to ban it, perhaps sending in the troops. None of which would be acceptable to the people of Scotland not of the EU, EFTA, The UN or damn near any democracy in the World and including the Geneva Convention.

    May is not faced with a rather stark choice. Either she outright bans a referendum and thus stacks up the opposition of the majority of the free World or she backs down. In either case she is on a hiding to nothing.

    It sure as hell will not endear her to the EU, EFTA or the UN. However, as someone else has pointed out, it leaves her with a rather large problem. The doubts she has now been forced to cast upon taking the Scots out of Europe against their wills can only increase the unlikelihood of Westminster getting a reasonable deal for the Westminster de facto parliament of England leavening the EU.

    It is bound to make any other country or organisation like the WTO think at least twice about setting up trade deals with whatever bits of the UK pull out of Europe and May’s claims of the deal being favourable for whatever bits of the UK come out of Europe become more remote.

    It sure as hell is getting very like the divorce of the two union kingdoms is becoming ever more acrimonious and that case more doubts upon a happy outcome of the so called Brexit Deal talks. Big business hates doubts.

  135. Smallaxe says:

    Please keep in mind, when dealing with these people the words of this great young philosopher.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRytxvw0DCc&ab_channel=Geo%27sForumWeapons

    And remember to quote the words of this enlightened one.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphA59V-l08&ab_channel=LuthfilLutz

    Peace Always

  136. Mike says:

    It doesn’t take much to believe that as soon as the Brexit negotiations officially begin the EU will use the threat of Scottish Independence to their full advantage and in doing so will promote the cause of our Independence by default.
    In order to use Scottish Independence as a negotiation tool against the UK Government they will have to convince the UK that they ALL 27 countries will agree to allow an Indy Scotland a seemless membership to the EU.

    Its a no brainer to pretend they wont use this situation to their full advantage and in doing so play the ball for Scotland at the same time.

    Its a cast iron guarantee that the minute Brexit negotiations officially kick off the EU in its entirety will support and promote Scotlands efforts to remain within the EU not least of all because of our massive resources that they will lose by losing us to the rUK.

  137. Macart says:

    @orri

    Pretty much. As Mr Dunt points out in his excellent dissection piece on Politics UK, any difficulties at the negotiating table and a sudden rush of very chummy and very public talks about Scotland break out suddenly and all over the place. Perhaps even the odd invite for the FM to open a building in Brussels (chuckle).

    Ms May’s response? To attempt to intimidate New Scots and EU nationals with the removal of civic rights. Rights she has every intention of removing anyway. Well, that and play to the right wing nutters and meeja.

    The serious politicians and political commentators however, are fully perfectly aware of what has occurred this week. Let the Mail and Express have their “Sturgeon slapped, kicked, beaten, malkied’ headline. I believe Mr Dunt is quite correct in his article. I believe the other boot will drop soon enough and it has nails in it. 😉

  138. galamcennalath says:

    Here’s my fair and straightforward offer to the Westminster Tories …

    We promise to never interfere in the internal affairs of England and Wales.

    Now, will you lot get to fck out of our constitutional and democratic process?

  139. call me dave says:

    Challenge is on face to face maybe?

    First Minister accepts live TV debate challenge.

    https://twitter.com/KirstyStricklan/status/842401886632304640

  140. McDuff says:

    There is to be a demonstration against BBC bias at Pacific Quay on Sunday so please please can as many people as possible attend as we need to highlight the EBC`s anti independence reporting. It is vital that this rally is well represented, if not the BBC will certainly use it as a sign of public confidence and a vindication of their reporting.
    If we are really serious about independence then now more than ever is the time to show it as we may not get another chance.

  141. Arbroath1320 says:

    So the coward of Cowardly Hall cowardly cowers in the under stairs cupboard cowering away from everyone and everything that dares to suggest she answers the question” Are you saying you will block the Scottish plans for an independence referendum?” 😉

    Cue the sound of a “click” noise and from deep inside the cupboard under the stairs of Cowardly Hall comes the sound of a cassette tape whirring and the voice of the Coward of Cowrardly Hall herself saying, repeatedly:

    “Now is not the time”

    Requests have been sent out from Cowardly Hall for someone to deliver one of the following. Both would be desirable but one will be acceptable on its own.

    1) Guts
    2) Backbone

  142. Helena Brown says:

    A passing thought this morning, had the Tories thrown their MP’s under a bus to get them out of Brexit?
    The other passing thought right now is that like J. Corbyn before her, May is believing what Ruth Davidson says without discovering for herself how things really stand in Scotland.
    Like I would say most Scots, being told by some posh English women, how I should think just makes my hand go into my wallet, The SNP got a donation and next pension payment, more money for Stu.

  143. robertknight says:

    Scotland cannot possibly be allowed to have another referendum before Brexit is finalised!

    How can the British Government be expected to sacrifice Scotland’s interests on the altar of “getting the best deal for the whole of the United Kingdom” if Scotland decides that it’s going to leave?

    Stupid separatists just don’t get the bigger picture, do we?

  144. heedtracker says:

    call me dave says:
    16 March, 2017 at 3:59 pm
    Challenge is on face to face maybe?

    First Minister accepts live TV debate challenge.

    Not a chance.

    Its not how planet toryboy operates, in Scotland especially. Mayhem’s personal BBC news spokesberk Norman Smith is all over the beeb now, explaining May’s YES but NO, how she is reaching out to the nice Scots, over the horrid ones, while he’s sliding in stuff like, “we fought in wars together,” its that UKOK fucking mental in tory Scotland, live on BBC news 24, “we fought in wars together and they must wait until Brexit is settled, for their own good.”

  145. ronnie anderson says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    16 March, 2017 at 4:02 pm
    @ Robert Peffers As i said last week & again today Nicola Sturgeon played the Political Convention card knowing the mind set of Teresa May’s non compliance , the FM is playing her cards as & when there is a need.

    When Holyrood votes on another Referendum next week that will be another nail in TM’s erse. Electorial Fraud / Brexit I can see TM calling for a UK election.

  146. Arbroath1320 says:

    ChewinTheFat says:
    16 March, 2017 at 1:58 pm

    I’m pretty sure it’s not entirely legal for Mayhem to “block” IndyRef2 and the fact that all the power does not rely on her say-so.

    Surely the UN will have something to say about her doing this if it was true that is.

    I think this is what you’re looking for CTF:

    2. All peoples have the right to self-determination; by virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development.

    http://www.un.org/en/decolonization/declaration.shtml

  147. galamcennalath says:

    An excellent tweet ….

    “Callum McCaig? @callum_mccaig

    Just imagine Brussels had told the UK that they are not allowed to have a referendum. That’s the difference between Scotland’s ‘two Unions.’ “

    …. sums up the situation perfectly. Highlights the level of interference the two Unions exert.

  148. harry mcaye says:

    McDuff – A complete and utter waste of time. It will not persuade ONE voter to change their mind. I was at the biggest one, at the time I felt a point had to be made and I’m glad I went but come on, this is now flogging a dead horse. Our opponents will be laughing at us. Definition of insanity – to do the same things over and over again while expecting a different outcome.

  149. ronnie anderson says:

    ronnie anderson says:
    16 March, 2017 at 4:09 pm
    http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/03/16/may-just-handed-nicola-sturgeon-the-greatest-gift

    Mundell / May / BBC / can rant all they want but Westminster cant block Indy Ref 2.

  150. Glamaig says:

    Good grief BBC comments have gone completely mental with hatred and ignorance. £15bn deficit, you’re too poor, and nasty fishy aggressive woman is all you need to know. Complete waste of time reading them. Its embarrassing to think people from other countries might read it.

  151. schrodingers cat says:

    the eu wont involve itself in the internal affairs of member states. they may be rooting for us but they wont intervene on our behalf

    i not sure getting the scottish courts to sanction indyref2 would help much, but showing what has just happened is against the treaty of union might be worthwhile

    however, trading away fishing rights in scottish waters just lost a lot of value, treeza will be gutted

    we will just need to see what brexit brings, spreading doom and gloom, real not imagined, will also turn heads as the uk economy fails

  152. stewartb says:

    Regarding the several references in earlier posts to current petitions for or against a second Indy referendum, I have no intention of signing one on this subject: I have no intention in participating in a competition between opposing petitions.

    I voted in the last Holyrood elections for a party standing with a clear manifesto commitment to hold a second indyref under certain circumstances that have now come about. That party, now in government, will put its proposition to the test in Holyrood shortly – and is likely to win majority approval. This is what matters.

    Petitions on this subject at this time are a distraction. Participating in one in favour of a second indy ref just gives undeserved status to one opposing a second indy ref. The case for a second indyref has been made, and if approved in Holyrood, then the case will have been won where it matters.

    If opponents in Holyrood wish to test the mood of the Scottish electorate, let their MSPs resign and trigger new elections or table a motion of no confidence in the Scottish government and see where this gets them. If not, let them respect the decision of the Scottish Parliament.

    And with all due respect to the proponents here, the notions of UDI, ‘civil disobedience’, ‘uprising’ are not just daft – especially as our FM continues to play out her carefully crafted strategy – but they could be very counter-productive and damaging if picked up, twisted and amplified by a hostile media. Let’s not give them more to denigrate the Yes movement – they can make up enough by themselves as it is. Patience is a virtue at this time.

  153. jfngw says:

    May effectively admits that the UK had no idea what they were voting for in EU referendum. Backs this up by stating they still will not know in 18 months time.

    This incompetence was also on display by David Davis, who has no idea about Brexit it would seem, apart from it all will be very good.

  154. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Macart @ 15:56:

    To attempt to intimidate New Scots and EU nationals with the removal of civic rights. Rights she has every intention of removing anyway.

    It’s so transparent a play that you have to consciously stop your jaw from dropping. A post-Brexit Scotref would directly turn all those good folk into untermenschen without any right to stay, let alone any right to vote. Where’s eg. SLab’s precious “solidarity” in that?

    A whole segment of the electorate virtually guaranteed to vote for indy now and we’re worried about the likes of a few postal votes? If we are stupid or complacent enough to let something as outrageous as such a class disenfranchisement just casually happen, we deserve to lose!

    You also have to wonder what effect that delay proposition has on the countries of the EU27 entering the negotiating process. To appease the Mayhem Gang, or give support to a breakaway nation that is willing to guarantee their own citizens’ full ongoing rights here? A no-brainer, I would say.

    (But only if we are prepared to stay within the EU, of course. Otherwise all bets are off.)

  155. Arbroath1320 says:

    Breastplate says:
    16 March, 2017 at 2:14 pm

    Davidson and Mundell have thrown the toys out of the pram and have said they’re not going to talk about independence at all, so there, na an nana na.
    Quite funny and entertaining.

    THANK GAWD!

    THEY have seen sense at last. THEY will FINALLY shut the F*** UP about a bloody independence referendum that nobody wants … apparently! 😀

    Perhaps NOW the photo op “genius” and Scruffy Fluffy will return to their day jobs now. 😉

  156. Proud Cybernat says:

    So, it turns out that sometimes she’s not a complete stranger to the truth…

    http://imgur.com/a/Jk2O6

  157. Tinto Chiel says:

    As Bob Mack said, this is poker but the FM will have been gaming this for a while and will have anticipated May’s moves.

    I can’t see what cards Treeza has to play now which will regain the initiative. Even her condescending headmistress manner antagonises Scots, let alone any attempt by her to dictate the terms of the referendum.

    I picture a figure in Totty Rocks tartan high heels quietly smiling while she strokes a white cat…

    Memo to PM: you’re cooked, and all the EU knows it.

  158. clipper says:

    schrodingers cat says:
    16 March, 2017 at 3:26 pm
    “whether may has handed nicola a gift…. we will find out in the next opinion poll”

    Personally I no longer believe that there is any way of accurately and reliably measuring opinion on hot button issues. Well if polls could be trusted yes there would be but who trusts polls?

    If they can own the msm you think they can’t own polling? Do you think that a consistent upward swing in Yes voting intentions would be faithfully recorded and published by BRITISH polling organisations and companies, some of which are apparently owned by tories and such like?

  159. Hamish100 says:

    BBC rug pulled under First Ministers feet. Mundell Davidson already knew but held it from scots parliament. They undermine parliament . They work for the Brexit government. No matter. We shall have a referendum. Oops the rug has been pulled under the Scots feet again according to the BBC

    Do you think they are reading from a script from May.

    Thanks got my anger up May. You will suffer at the polls.

  160. Golfnut says:

    @ Robert Peffers

    I’m with you Robert, round 1 to Nicola.
    Nicola chose her words very carefully ( She has a law degree ) when she announced that she would seek authority from the Scottish Parliament to agree terms for section 30.

    This was a clear and unambiguous statement of where her authority lies.

    May had the choice of meeting that challenge head on, or sidestepping it. No matter how the media portrays this event, the reality is she sidestepped it.

    Dunt would appear to agree.

    That is also the conclusion the EU will come to.

    Nicola will just keep turning the screw.

    Round 2 coming up.

  161. Iain More says:

    I really hope the Yoons do try to block another IndyRef. It would put those pwoud Scots Buts Naws on the spot.

    Well there isn’t anything to pwoud of when they are on their knees worshipping cartilaginous appendages or bending over and relaxing their butt cheeks for the Lords and Masters in London. Well they will also be doing it for nothing pretty much since the Brit Peso is going to take another tumble soon.

  162. Bob Mack says:

    Three Unionist Party’s unite to insist there is no mandate nor appetite for a referendum. Yet, every one of them is scared to allow a referendum which if they are right they would clearly win.

    I think there may be private polling which has got them really,really worried.

    Where is your courage Unionists. If you believe there is no appetite for a referendum then you will surely win hands down. Having doubts?

  163. Hamish100 says:

    If the brexit greet like wee waynes then they should campaign not to vote. Suits me.

  164. Gary45% says:

    Lets sit back and watch the Empire crumble.
    May, the Yoons and the Empire media, are making themselves look even more foolish daily, is this possible?
    Let them spout this garbage, we know its bollocks, so just sit back and watch the show.

    schrodingerscat@4.16
    Its not just Mayhem who will be gutted, I think a few “Fishing Families” who were going to make a fortune from Mays deal will be gutted also.
    “Selling the family gold” comes to mind.

  165. Iain More says:

    Well I had one riotous laugh today and that was the result of the Dutch Election. I guess the Dutch took a look at Brit nationalism and didn’t like what the saw – oops!

  166. Capella says:

    Nicola’s referendum fundraiser is doing well today for some reason. Nearly £300,000 raised in three days.

    £295,678 raised of £1 million target
    97 days left

    https://www.ref.scot/donate

  167. manandboy says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

    Again, the 95% anti SNP comments on this BBC page come across as fake. The things the BBC will do to spread propaganda!

  168. Robert Louis says:

    If Theresa, the enemy of Scots has made you mad, donate to the referendum fundraiser 🙂

    https://www.ref.scot/donate

  169. Peter_McM says:

    From the other side, the Dutch side, of the North Sea, where we’ve just had an election. Public opinion pro-EU, seems pretty solid in favour. The government here may have shifted to the right, but it hasn’t headed as far up Doolally Junction as was expected.

    Faced with the crazies, Brexit, Wilders, Putain, Drumpf, Erdogan, LePen @ etc. the EU needs to get its collective arse in gear. Pronto!

    If Sturgeon, the SNP and the Scots’ Greens can keep a steady hand on the tiller, they might just find themselves helping to steer the whole European multi-culti project into calmer waters. And that ‘wid be jist sublime.

  170. TheStrach says:

    May is really rattled and doesn’t have a clue what to do.Her house of cards is about to be blown away.

  171. Orri says:

    Scots Wha Hae
    BY ROBERT BURNS
    Scots, wha hae wi’ Wallace bled,
    Scots, wham Bruce has aften led;
    Welcome to your gory bed,
    Or to victory!

    Now’s the day, and now’s the hour;
    See the front o’ battle lour;
    See approach proud Edward’s power—
    Chains and slavery!

    Wha will be a ("Tractor" - Ed) knave?
    Wha can fill a coward’s grave!
    Wha sae base as be a slave?
    Let him turn and flee!

    Wha for Scotland’s king and law
    Freedom’s sword will strongly draw,
    Freeman stand, or freeman fa’,
    Let him follow me!

    By oppression’s woes and pains!
    By your sons in servile chains!
    We will drain our dearest veins,
    But they shall be free!

    Lay the proud usurpers low!
    Tyrants fall in every foe!
    Liberty’s in every blow!—
    Let us do or die!

    If ever we’re tempted to change our “National Anthem”

  172. Brian Powell says:

    EU citizens can still vote in the Council elections, they could make a real statement about the Tories, Labour, Libdems and Brexit.

  173. DerekM says:

    Now now Dave what makes you think we intend to wreck brexit on the contrary old chap we helped you win it but only in England lol

    Although we do not intend to stick around to see the outcome best of luck with that 🙂

  174. Capella says:

    Nicola Sturgeon: ‘This could be the day the fate of the union was sealed’

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39296904

  175. schrodingers cat says:

    clipper
    re opinion polls, some questions are deliberatley designed to give headline news, but there are more objective polls by eg this website. they have there uses, but in scotland they have been accurate enough, indeed, they can be useful in showing trends. it is a trend towards yes which i was talking about

    Malcolm Chisholm? @MalcolmChishol1 4h4 hours ago

    PM lecturing and overriding majority opinion in ScotParl offends many 1000s ofYES and NO.Democratic outrage that will spectacularly backfire

    he seems to think so, not sure why or how
    as i said, we will see, time will tell

  176. jfngw says:

    The way things are going at the BBC it is embarrassing itself even more than 2014. Is Norman Smith a reporter or a WM government spokesperson? Just waiting for ‘our sacred PM’ any minute.

    They are trying to make the SG back down about a ref vote, they are whistling in the wind. It will happen as planned and I expect it to be passed by the SG with a good majority.

    Then lets see May actually over-rule democracy.

    Once it is passed of course it still effectively takes Scottish resources off the negotiating table.

  177. Dougsdad says:

    Appears that this the perfect opportunity to go back to the nineties and resurrect a classic song from Alannis Morissette.

    Anyone got any suggestions for a new verse for `Ironic` ?

  178. Dr Jim says:

    Ding Ding! Sturgeon is out of her corner and claims the centre of the ring she dances around her bigger opponent delivering stinging lefts and rights, May has the power but no footwork as she swings predictably over the nippy Scots head, I’m reminded of the great Ali Foreman rumble in the jungle as these two combatants joust for position in this fight

    !!Baam!! what a punch as Sturgeon opens up a cut over Mays left eye followed by a stiff uppercut, May’s groggy on her feet now as the nimble Scot dashes in and out delivering more blows to the ribs

    Ding Ding, May staggers back to her corner the only way she can win this now is with a knockout and she only has two rounds left to do it with Sturgeon clearly winning every round so far

    Officials in May’s corner urging her on but seem to be holding the towel ready as Sturgeon keeps peppering away at that cut eye which is worsening by the minute, May just can’t seem to keep up with the nippy Scot

    Ding Ding, The fight’s been waved off it’s over it’s over and the new British champion is in fact the Scottish champion Nicoooola Stuuuurgeon Stuuuuurgeon

    Will she go on to fight for the European title

    Bet your Arse!

  179. pool9 says:

    This is a belter:

    “But Mr Davis hinted no assessment of the Brexit options will be carried out, saying: “You don’t need a piece of paper with numbers on it to have an economic assessment.””

    From this article.

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/brexit-david-davis-admits-government-094100873.html

    Oh. My.

    Everytime a unionist wants a detailed, fully costed, plan-for-every-possible–economic-eventuality in Scotland, refer them to this.

    Brexit will happen, but we won’t know the implications of what might happen if negotiations fail, and we haven’t done any homework on that possibility, just because.

    But Scotland must justify every detailed fevered economic imagining of the unionist opposition, because Scotland “deserves an informed choice” or some other BS. The same informed choice the brexit politicians have no interest in.

    Hypocrites yet again.

    Let’s have an imaginary conversation:

    Unionist) How will you fund this, and that, and the other? What currency will you use? etc. etc. We demand details!

    Indy Supporter) What was the plan for brexit? How does the UK plan to fund this that and the other? Where were the detailed explanations of the possible economic impacts on the UK of the Brexit decision? And to the forty fifth degree, mind, or we won’t be satisfied with any analysis you provide – fair’s fair!

    U) That’s irrelevant! Totally different situation! Because reasons I don’t have time to share right now! The future is uncertain! National security!

    IS) What? What’s that? The future, you say? You don’t know what will happen until it happens so you don’t need to plan for it? You don’t want to share the details of your plan because you don’t want to show your hand to the other party you will be negotiating with when exiting the union you don’t like? Maybe the Yes side could use that same argument! No? So why do I have to justify everything you want answers for when you won’t do the same for the UK as a whole with Brexit? What’s good for the goose is good for the gander, no?

    U) Lalala! I can’t hear you! Here, have some of my pre-prepared and not relevant servings of Diversion, Denial, Distraction. So there!

  180. Mike says:

    Borg Queen: A Refawhitnow?

    Galactic media: I said what is your view on holding a referendum within your Hive Colle… sorry union?

    Borg Queen: Stay right there you. POUNDSHOP! What the fuck huv ye done wie ma probe?

  181. Valerie says:

    Once again the Tories freely show us their intellectually bereft bullying.

    It’s even beginning to dawn on folk like Ian Dunt just how strategic Nicola is, however grudgingly. To be fair to Ian, on Monday, he admitted he thought Nicola had been bluffing about calling a referendum.

    They simply cannot read, or refuse, what is happening, even though they know the stats.

    There is no way Nicola bluffs, and there is no way this move by May to block hadn’t been anticipated.

    What I’m wondering is if Corbyn will keep his promise to support a Holyrood motion down in WM for a referendum.

    I think many are in shock, but I’m not. The Tories are just too stupid to say ‘under advisement’ Need to keep a cool head right now, and Nicola was very composed when she told Glenn Campbell, this may well be the day the fate of the Union was sealed.

    EU must be very impressed right now.

  182. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    “Time will tell”. Indeed.

    The thing is, current events are all happening in a vacuum. May claims Scotland has to twiddle its thumbs and passively wait until Brexit is a “done deal”, apparently utterly oblivious to the irony of the shameful lack of understanding supplied in the EUref, something that we are now supposed to let pass and unconditionally accept as “the will of the people”.

    Bollocks!

    By autumn of 2018, the reality of Brexit will be starkly visible to even anyone with one dud eye and half a brain. (That is, everyone except the leadership of SLab.)

    Not only the deal with the EU27 that will be going to their parliaments for final ratification, but the reaction of the international markets, the rate of inflation, the exchange rate of the pound sterling, etc, etc.

    And I’m willing to bet that as that stark reality unfolds, apart from a few zealots of left and right, people won’t have any difficulty whatever by then in deciding where their interests lie.

    For which time we need to have that lifeboat ready and waiting. We’ll surely need it.

  183. Les Wilson says:

    Dan Huil says:

    Yeah and she has a face like a fried fish supper!

  184. Martin says:

    May thinks by blocking til post Brexit we’ll lose EU voters and it will suit them. Unfortunately (for her) I am quite sure this was something NS had planned for already and the result will be a pre brexit indyref2 with a high proportion of pissed off Scots switching to yes.

  185. pool9 says:

    The unionist camp appears to have settled very quickly into throwing simple slogans across the airwaves and headlines, and repeating them ad nauseam, true or not (the ubiquitous Tomkins, for example). Propaganda 101, keep it simple, say it loud and often – people will get used to it and hopefully internalise it. That seems to be their plan.

    Look at this article: TM says something, a false conclusion is drawn from her words, and brayed to all and sundry by the eager press. Loud, pervasive, repetition. Propaganda 101.

    The truth, pithy and pointed, will undo them.

    Keep bursting the bubble.

  186. Breeks says:

    One thing that niggles me is that May MUST understand the Scotland cannot postpone its referendum beyond Brexit and find itself out of Europe wanting back in, when instead it can simply remain where it is as England exits. To me, that seems patently obvious. She’s the UK’s PM! She has to know this doesn’t she??? Even if it wasn’t obvious, Nicola has actually explained those parameters in relation to the timing of the referendum.

    It’s reminding me of all those months when the Tories were promising that they would get a great deal with Europe, while every man and his dog could see from listening to Europe and seeing their grim expressions that such a deal just wasn’t going to happen. Europeans go to St Moritz to ski, not talk shop with UK Tories.

    I pinch myself. Are the Tories REALLY so blinkered they genuinely believe their own propaganda? I mean, surely, there has to be somebody in Westminster, a “normal”, proof reading the speeches and flagging up the real “howlers”, no? But time again, the Tories seem totally stumped by the blindingly obvious.

    You know, I don’t think they are playing political chess. They’re not bluffing. They are genuinely stumped. They are Daleks from another world, spinning in circles because something doesn’t compute. Their “way” of business is the way of the Tory; to pull strings, call in favours, and have meetings behind closed doors with chums called Bertie and Freddie, from Eton and Oxbridge. But hey! Wait!
    They don’t have well placed “resources” like that in Scotland, not any more, not since an ermine cloak ceased to be political currency. Nor in Europe either, and without that “old boy network”, they are singularly clueless about conducting political negotiations and garnering influence with people from other walks of life.

    It’s got me wondering now… all this xenophobia, all this antithesis towards Europe, I’m beginning to see a clearer picture. They cannot bend Europe, or an SNP government to their cosseted world of networks, favours and connections, and their Eton education,while preparing them to be masters of the Kingdom and Empire, has left them pitifully ill equipped to deal with people “from abroad” who cannot be bought or threatened.

    Like their Empire, the Tories are relics which belong in a previous century; dinosaurs too slow to realise the end has come. The sickening thing is they’ll be alright. They’ll get some obscene £650k part time job like Gideon Osborne just for managing to get out of bed one day a week. It’s the poor bastards like Chunky Mark the taxi driver who will pay the price.

    We must do this Scotland. We must get out. I have a horrible notion where the next load of economic refugees might be coming from, and it might just about break our hearts.

  187. gus1940 says:

    I shall be very surprised if May is still PM at the end of this year.

    The interesting question is who will be daft and vain enough to grasp the Brexit Poisoned Chalice.

  188. Robert Graham says:

    My it’s good to see the Tory boss at Hollyrood getting on with the day job, she highlighted the fact a parent no less contacted her because her school was short of a maths teacher, well f/k me silly me would have thought that the management or the local authority would be the best ones to sort that out, maybe the mooth is getting ready for her next job in local government, because the odds of being first minister are beyond even the stupidest bookies reckoning, dumb and dumber doesn’t come close, I can’t imagine what Kezias we shot at stardom will be, come on what’s yer question this week dear, oh you know the teacher personally and you fully agree with the Tory again.
    The only reason I mentioned this was the BBC seem to believe that this is a story because it featured prominently on their website, a Quiet news day eh. . .

  189. caz-m says:

    Does anybody know where we stand legally with this???

    Could we go to the UN???

  190. Ken500 says:

    It is illegal under EU/International Law. Under the terms Act of Union, Scotland has a separate legal system forever. Under Scottish Law the people are sovereign. May intends to delay. She is breaking the Law. The Tories are corrupt. The Tory honeymoon is definitely over. May has the poisoned chalice. Lame Duck. The nasty corrupt Tories couldn’t make a bigger mess. A big mistake.

  191. Mochachoca says:

    Dugdale completely misrepresents the SNP 2016 Manifesto pleadge on second referendum, uncorrected by BBC interviewer of course.

  192. Orri says:

    I wonder if the Tories are asinine enough to believe that the SNP mandate technically doesn’t activate until we’ve actually been taken out the EU?

  193. Famous15 says:

    “Now is not the time”

    “The time is when a yes vote would be doomed”

    The Empire has spoken and you must bow!

  194. Nana says:

    This was fun! Making the case for independence by seeing how many ways I could agree with Hothersall

    listen here

    https://twitter.com/GrayInGlasgow/status/842429574138998785

  195. Robert Louis says:

    Let’s wait for the Scottish Parliament vote. Once we have that, then nobody can say their is no mandate.

    Then let’s see what happens.

    Meanwhile, Labour on the side of the Tories AGAIN.

  196. Roddy Macdonald says:

    Utter horse manure from May and even worse from Mundell “Monday’s proposal does not meet the criteria.” What effing criteria? He hasn’t a clue.

    In any event, a s.30 order is only required for a “binding” referendum. The EU Referendum wasn’t binding but we’re stuck with the consequences. Under Scots Law the people are sovereign (which concept utterly passes the UK pundits and politicians by) so how could any Scottish Referendum possibly not be binding (on the Scottish Government at least)?

    It’s perfectly open to the FM to call a referendum without a s.30 order, all it would mean is that the Scot Gov couldn’t use government resources to campaign, but the SNP is loaded now with short money. In that case she has free reign over timing, question and franchise.

    If we vote for indy, we get it. What is May going to do? Send in the 3 tanks the British Army has left?

  197. Vambomarbeleye says:

    Drowning Street
    Drowning in corruption and incompetents.
    I thought we had paid to get the London sewer system upgraded.

  198. Glamaig says:

    aargh!! too much news happening. How can this go on for 2 years? I think I need to go and lie down…

  199. winifred McCartney says:

    The protest at the BBC is as far as I know on Sunday 26 March at 2pm not this coming Sunday. Please check.

  200. Macart says:

    @ronnie anderson

    So many rugs being yanked.

    WILL NO ONE SPEAK UP FOR THE RUGS? 😮

  201. Capella says:

    Ross Greer, Green spokesman on Indy ref from BBC live:

    Greer: ‘Scottish Greens will give the SNP the majority it needs’
    http://bbc.in/2nrxrQm via @BBCNews

    He said: “If a Tory Westminster government that Scotland did not elect seriously think they can block our right to choose – and that they can veto a decision of our elected parliament – they will only increase support for independence.

    “Today’s comments underline the contemptuous attitude the Tories have toward Scotland.”

    So that’s it then. Indyref it is.

  202. Legerwood says:

    It speaks volumes about the difference in quality between Ms Sturgeon and Mrs May and the respect, or lack of it, that they have for the electorate that one, Ms Sturgeon, makes her announcement in the formal surroundings of her official residence in a reasoned speech followed by a Q and A session by all manner of journalists. By doing so she invests the occasion with the dignity and seriousness it deserves.

    The other, Mrs May, makes her announcement in a short interview in which it is all too obvious she cannot answer the questions asked or stray from the prepared script.

  203. Robert Peffers says:

    @schrodingers cat says: 16 March, 2017 at 3:21 pm:

    “without a section 30, i am unsure a yes result in indyref2 would be recognised by the eu or the un
    this face off has been in the post for sometime
    now what?”

    Whatever do the EU or UN have to do with it?

    A section 30 Order has nothing whatsoever to do with preventing, or granting, a referendum. This is because what was in question when Salmond was dealing with Cameron about Indyref i was not about whether there was to be, or wasn’t to be, a referendum.

    The topic under debate was whether or not the Westminster Parliament would legally accept the result and action the results.

    Furthermore it is a two way thing and both parties have to agree and sign it. Basically that means both parties agree to abide by the result and the terms of the agreement.

    Perhaps you may perhaps remember there was a bit of dispute about agreeing to the exact wording of the question and how of how many questions were to be included on the paper.

    What is was/is not is the Westminster permission to hold a referendum. The actuality is that if May refuses to agree on the terms of a section 30 order then the SG goes ahead and they, and only they, will decide what is asked and how the thing is run.

    Westminster has nothing to do with it and can refuse to accept the result. However, they would do so at their own risk. As far as the EU, UN and Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh are concerned the nation/country/kingdom of Scotland’s elected government has held a referendum and can go ahead and implement whatever the result happens to be.

    It is recognised by the EU and UN human rights law that recognisable, and identifiable, groups even within unified countries or states are entitled to self-determination.

    I suspect Old Uncle Cobleigh, though, is of a quite different mind-set and stands a bit more to the RH side than the UN & EU.

  204. robin says:

    Hmm does raise the question of what happens if Westminster just ignore the section 30 request until after brexit.
    democratic outrage or not it’s a tricky one.
    Do we have all SNP MP’s and MEPs and Scottish Parliament members all resign if so why to what effect etc…could happen you know and to declare UDI would need 50% plus 1 to stand any chance and that’s if Westminster bothered to let those elections happen at all until after brexit….gonna be an interesting few days

  205. robin says:

    and as for a non section 30 referendum you just know the torys/libdems/labour will boycott it so even when we get 75% yes it will be seen as invalid or would it….hmmm Stu we need your advice on these matters

  206. Gary45% says:

    gus1940@5.37
    Boris “Mr Bungle” Johnson.

  207. Robert Peffers says:
    16 March, 2017 at 6:25 pm
    @schrodingers cat says: 16 March, 2017 at 3:21 pm:

    “without a section 30, i am unsure a yes result in indyref2 would be recognised by the eu or the un
    this face off has been in the post for sometime
    now what?”
    =================

    Your answer to this comment was spot on. I hope Kev takes it onboard.

  208. schrodingers cat says:

    Laura Kuenssberg?Verified account @bbclaurak

    I’m told Tories have been focus grouping messages for 3 months, and believe ‘no, not now’ will work – but it is a HUGE risk

    so now we know

  209. Glamaig says:

    meanwhile in Northern Ireland, Sinn Fein asks US Congress for support to stay in EU, and asks Irish Govt to resist direct rule…

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-nireland-usa-idUKKBN16N1OC

  210. David says:

    I think tactically its better for people to see just how s**t brexit will be anyway.

  211. Marie Clark says:

    Deary me, it’s fairly kicking off today. Had to smile at the spin put on what the maybot said. God, they’re fairly frothing at the mooth.

    I agree with Robert Peffers, the loud clang was the trap springing
    and May just walked straight into it. I have great trust in Nicola Sturgeon, and she has a plan, nae doot o’ that, more than that it’s working wonderfully well. Keep calm folks, steady as we go. It’s a long road yet in front of us.

    Incidentally, could someone assuage my curiosity. When we win our scotref, what happens to these unionist parties? they have no job as their loyalty is to Westminster. They have no place in Scotland. Will they try and reinvent themselves, how can they be pro Scotland in our independent country, when they were so vehemently opposed to it before. I hope we tell them to sling their collective hook, there’ll no even be a place for them in the lords, they’ll no want them either.

    I don’t think the maybot will be PM for much longer, watch out for Boris.

  212. robin says:

    I wonder what Nicola has in mind by saying
    ‘ “consider my options and what I should do” if a formal Scottish Parliament request to hold a referendum is turned down.

  213. ChewinTheFat says:

    @Dorothy Devine

    Yes, got a wee letter through the day telling me the council tax is going up – shockingly, I also got through my Postal poll card for the council votes along with it! Oh, the irony!

    I said the exact same thing as you did. The drains in my street are a nightmare – blocked to high heaven with leaves and all sorts of dirt, and with the torrential rain we had earlier today in Glasgow it didn’t help. One huge, huge puddle overtaking the small road. I couldn’t even tell you the year of the last time my street was cleaned and I have been living in the same place for 26 years, yet to see a council van other than the guys who empty the bins.

    Yet these nitwits who “run” the council at the moment want us to vote them back in? I can firmly say “I don’t think so!”

    My vote will now be going to the SNP and gladly so, with a hopeful SNP outcome overall!

  214. Valerie says:

    @Legerwood

    Quite a few notable English journalists, commentators mentioned how impressive the FM was in the prolonged Q & A session that Nicola had on Monday.

    Comments like “long session” “full answers” “take note, Mrs May”, on Twitter.

    Can’t believe Ruth has advised May on this course, but Ruth had that swagger and set jaw at her Press briefing, so it’s entirely feasible.

  215. Fran says:

    Just watched a clip of Tmay being interviewed and there is a very telling line that she said “to give the people of Scotland an alternative to an independent Scotland”.

    She knows they have lost the argument before the campaign even starts. All they have is bluster about polls showing no appetite for a referendum or an IScotland.

    Makes you wonder what private polling WM are conducting.

  216. North chiel says:

    If the Holyrood parliament sanctions a referendum within the FM’s preferred dates,
    and TM indicates that London will turn down any formal democratic request can the FM further indicate that if no approval of her preferred dates window is forthcoming then the Scottish government will look at other democratic routes to Independence . Can the FM call either by -elections in Westminster constituencies or Holyrood elections on the terms of Brexit versus Independence ?Further could these elections also include a manifesto commitment to commence negotiations on
    revoking the act/ treaty of union ? Is there other possible options along these lines that could be considered? Perhaps some ” constitutional/ legal posters” could clarify ??

  217. Robert Peffers says:

    @sensibledave says: 16 March, 2017 at 3:32 pm:

    ” … So far, my assessment is that we are heading down the track I suggested a few days ago. May wont say no, she will say not now (as she has done – why don’t you listen to me more?).

    Perhaps that, sensibledave, may be because, as usual, you do not have a bloody clue what you are talking about.

    May has not the power to stop the Scottish government from running a referendum on any damned thing they choose ask the people of Scotland to consider. Referendums, or plebiscites, have always been part and parcel of most forms of government. From village Councils to Empires the people, whether elected or self appointed, use them to find out what the people want or think.

    Quite often they don’t do what the people desire and on many grounds including affordability. In indyref 1 the arguments between Cameron and Salmond had absolutely nothing to do with whether Westminster would allow the referendum to proceed.

    The debate and its conclusion was only about whether both parties would, or would not, accept the results and abide by them. This was dependent upon several factors including the wording of the questions and how many of them would be asked. There was also some debate over whether those over 16 would get a vote or not.

    It had absolutely nothing to do with whether Westminster would allow the SG to hold a referendum. Quite frankly my opinion them was the same as I believe now. I’d tell Westminster to go do one and just rum the referendum as I wanted it whether Westminster liked it or not.

    The reason being that I believe if you take a decision to the people then you are morally entitled to do as the people decide. There is absolutely nothing against Scottish, English, UK or EU law that stops any elected body holding referendums and thus no one can stop them. But, by the same token, unless otherwise agreed beforehand all referendums are advisory.

    But here’s the rub – where does Westminster stand when the Scottish parliament has an independence majority. When the Union Parliament has a massive majority among the Scottish Members and a referendum of the people returns a majority that say they wish to be an independent country?

    Is there a democracy in the World that would back Westminster? Would it conform to the Geneva Convention? Would it conform to EU Human Rights law? What of the UN Human Rights laws?

    Yet today we have had the crazy Westminster Propaganda machine screaming its stupid heads off claiming that the United Kingdom Prime Minister has the just told the First Minister of Scotland she cannot hold a referendum.

    What a great publicity drive for the United Kingdom Government. It shows Westminster to be the non-democratic legislature that it actually always has been.

    In effect it is the de fact parliament of the country of England. It funds only England as the United Kingdom, it legislates for England under English law, it has thus devolved some useless English legal powers to the three other countries that it treats as English dominions. In spite of the Treaty of Union that states Scottish and English law is independent in perpetuity, it has set up a predominantly English judiciary as the so called, “United Kingdom”, Supreme Court and has claimed that the only actual partner Kingdom in that claimed United Kingdom is just another English region and that Westminster has extinguished the Kingdom of Scotland.

    Tell me sensibledave – is there any of that you think is a wrong statement of facts?

  218. Brian McHugh says:

    Only £91 short of £300,000 now. 😀
    https://www.ref.scot/donate

  219. McDuff says:

    Winifred McCartney
    Thanks Winifred for pointing out my error.
    The demonstration is in fact on the 26th March at Pacific Quay.
    My apologies to all.

  220. Famous15 says:

    The Tories found out on electoral corruption,LibDems in West Edinburgh next.

    Screeching May flip flopping on budget. Find a Welk Stall and screw that up but keep your bullying hands off Scotland.

    May reaching over the Scottish Government to speak directly to the Scottish people is hilarious. May.Mundell,Harrison etc you are toxic Tories. You are not even nice people and view the “Scottish people” as saps that you can con. We have seen under your veil and you are nasty.

  221. heedtracker says:

    BBC/C4 teatime news is an extraordinary display of dishonesty right now, sorry Great British dishonesty. But we are still merely a region.

  222. Legerwood says:

    Valerie @ 7.02pm

    Ms Sturgeon is always impressive in the Q and A. Cannot think of any other politician who is prepared to do sessions such as this. Cannot imagine Mrs May doing it.

    As to any debate between them, if it is on TV it will have to be after the watershed!

  223. Dr Jim says:

    There are 170.000 EU citizens resident in Scotland all of whom were probably set to vote Yes to Independence
    Isn’t Theresa May removing their votes by making sure Scotland is out of the EU by the time she “allows” the referendum thus creating them citizens of nowhere

    There is human rights legislation within the Treaty of Rome and the UN about self determination
    There’s maybe the European court now wouldn’t that be amusing

    Up till now it’s amusing and concerning at the same time but soon the threats will come, it’s what the Brits do
    Cameron was to feart to threaten May’s too stupid not to

  224. ChewinTheFat says:

    @Arbroath1320

    Yes, thank you! 🙂

  225. Capella says:

    Umberto Eco was spot on in his “Eternal Fascism:
    Fourteen Ways of Looking at a Blackshirt.”

    This idea that theresa May is speaking directly to the scottish poeple and by-passing the elected Parliament is described in No 13

    “Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism.”

    http://interglacial.com/pub/text/Umberto_Eco_-_Eternal_Fascism.html

  226. schrodingers cat says:

    David says:

    I think tactically its better for people to see just how s**t brexit will be anyway.

    so do i

    if we agree to sept 19 then the section 30 an be agreed pretty quickly, assuring eu scots and 16/17 yo a vote, and the question

    that gives 6 months of wto barriers to take its effects, voters will be clambering to vote yes.

    face it folks, we are out o the eu anyway, even if we hold it in sept18, it will take 18 months to negotiate our indy, the ruk will have left by then

  227. Tinto Chiel says:

    “Ms Sturgeon is always impressive in the Q and A. Cannot think of any other politician who is prepared to do sessions such as this. Cannot imagine Mrs May doing it.

    As to any debate between them, if it is on TV it will have to be after the watershed!”

    Couldn’t agree more, Legerwood.

    What other UK politician could take a multiplicity of questions and actually ANSWER them in such impressive fashion?

    A straight bi-partite debate would have to be after the watershed because the FM would simply gralloch Treeza.

    Not a pretty sight, so Mrs Mayhem would never agree.

  228. Mike says:

    The media are now speculating about an Indyref that wont happen for at least 2 years.

    Eh that’s Nicola Sturgeons timeline.

    Nurse!

  229. Robert Peffers says:

    @Glamaig says: 16 March, 2017 at 4:16 pm:

    ” … Its embarrassing to think people from other countries might read it.”

    Why ever not, Glamaig?

    After all it is likely people from other countries or country most likely writing it.

  230. Capella says:

    Nicola busy today. Interview with Jackie Bird:

    Scottish independence: Sturgeon ‘determined’ to have second vote
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39293384

  231. Effijy says:

    I read Wings every day, but each time I read about a protest gathering at Propaganda Quay, I can see a date, and I know
    that the Labour Council want payment for policing, but I have no idea if people are assembling else where and marching over, or are they just meeting there at a set time for a set period of time?

    Just a thought but if the gathering was assembled once the SLab-ering Councillors are kicked of George Square, there wouldn’t be any payments due on a give us peace march!

  232. Ian Mackay says:

    I doubt the EU would take kindly to the UK’s shenanigans in trying to deny indyref2 to precipitate Scotland’s exit from the EU. (Nor would it play well internationally as the UK has signed the UN charter on self-determination.)

    I can see the EU placing Scotland in a special holding category in the EU whilst the UK exit deal is arranged and then suspending any further trade deal negotiations with the UK until indyref2 is held.

    rUK would have no deal at all with the EU in that instance. It would be the hardest of all Brexits.

  233. Glamaig says:

    Robert Peffers says:
    16 March, 2017 at 7:48 pm

    After all it is likely people from other countries or country most likely writing it.

    For sure 95% is written from another country as you put it.
    But Germans or French for example might not detect that like we can.

    I hope they know the level of support we have and put 2 and 2 together as to the nature of the UK and our media and understand what we are up against.

  234. Breastplate says:

    Dr Jim, don’t forget their friends and family who have a vote on whether they stay or not.

  235. FergusMac says:

    The EU is nothing if not flexible, and a way can be found round any problem if the political will is there. Someone mentioned recently that Scotland could be put in a “holding pattern”, with full access to the single market and continuing under EU laws, but without full membership, while the details of that membership are worked out by the EU and the Scottish Government. These negotiations would, in the circumstances, be held in an atmosphere of cordiality and goodwill. Both parties will find that a refreshing change after dealing with the shites from Westminster.

  236. jfngw says:

    @Glamaig

    Don’t know about the BBC but the comments in The Herald leave you doubting your sanity. No matter what the subject is, around the same ten people are having the same argument every day. Is their readership really this low?

  237. Ian McCubbin says:

    I agree with Calum McKay on UDI. Theresa May is blocking a nation which wants to seced from a larger state by saying now is not the time. In international law a state can take UDI steps and ask backing of U.N. if the larger nation blocks a rightful democratic prices to initiate independence.
    This is what May is doing. Scottish Government with the Greens should go for it.

  238. Robert Louis says:

    Have to say, I agree with Robert Peffers above. Nobody can physically ‘stop’ a referendum. To suggest Westminster can is absurd. Once the Scottish Parlimaent has voted, and the First Minister can proceed, she should request a section 30. If it is refused, she should go ahead anyway.

    Either way, this behaviour by Westminster cannot be allowed to stand, because if it is, they will only carry on, including removing powers from the parliament.

    As usual, Labour are siding with the Tories. I just cannot fathom them anymore.

  239. Robert Peffers says:

    @Iain More says: 16 March, 2017 at 4:26 pm:

    ” … I really hope the Yoons do try to block another IndyRef. It would put those pwoud Scots Buts Naws on the spot.”

    There really is no legal way that Westminster can prevent the Scottish Government from holding a referendum on any issue whenever it wants to.

    All Westminster can do is not sign the section 30m Order. The section 30 order has nothing to do with stopping the referendum because a section 30 order is only unsigned by both sides in the agreement.

    It only makes a referendum, that is normally only an advisory mechanism to determine what the electorate want, into a legally binding one that both parties agree to respect the result thereof.

    That is the extent of May’s powers – she can fail to agree that Westminster will accept the result as binding upon Westminster.

    How would it look to the World Powers, or the EU member states, if Westminster refused to acknowledge that a Scotland that has a devolved administration they recently claiming was a one party state, that returned less Scottish Unionist MPs than could be counted on one hand and who held a referendum of its people who voting to leave the Union?

    Perhaps the World at large would see Westminster for what it is A Dictatorship that discriminated against all non-Englanders. Remember they are leaving the EU mainly on the grounds that they want to keep out foreign immigrants to England.

  240. Proud Cybernat says:

    “If we vote for indy, we get it. What is May going to do? Send in the 3 tanks the British Army has left?”

    Three? Are you sure there are that many?

  241. Big Del says:

    O/t. That’s Sky getting cancelled when I get of this rig. The bigotry that’s foaming from all the women that are on “the pledge” tonight was disgusting. “They”, “Them” “EU don’t want them” crap. That thing called Carol on it was the worst. Goby bitch……

  242. Glamaig says:

    @jfngw
    16 March, 2017 at 8:03 pm

    The BBC today was a tidal wave of hate, ignorance, misogyny, racist abuse, etc etc. The occasional indy supporter shows up but we get swept away in a tide of ignorance.

    On a good day its £15bn deficit, youre too poor, Greece, ad infinitum. Its their only argument and arguing with them just goes round and round in circles.

  243. @jfngw

    most of the comments in the daily rags are from their own hacks trying to troll for reaction and reply,

    same with BBC phone in,they have a list of names and numbers who are given a look at the topics so they have time to prepare unlike real callers.

  244. ScottishPsyche says:

    Yes, the BBC went full pelt to promote the idea that Theresa May was speaking to the people and for the people of Scotland. The idea of delegitimising the mandate of the FM and Scottish Parliament itself was absolutely hammered home today by both the Tories and the BBC. Very worrying.

  245. galamcennalath says:

    Joanna Cherry on QT tonight. I probably won’t watch it. I want to sleep tonight.

    Can anyone imagine an episode of QT with a majority of pro Indy panel members? Me neither.

    How about ….
    Stephen Gethins
    Patrick Harvey
    Lesley Riddoch
    David Mundell
    Willie Rennie
    …. then I’d watch it.

  246. Sam says:

    You are right Stuart that Theresa May did not make an outright refusal but played for time. But it can be no coincidence that such a large proportion of MSM commentators took it as if she did. It is pretty obvious that they had been briefed that this was the message they should be taking out of her words.

    The intriguing question is why the Tories should decide to brief in that way. Why did they choose to go so gung ho publicly when their actual position was for more nuanced? I’m have to say that looking at it from a rational or even Machiavellian perspective, it’s not at all easy to answer that question. What gain did they foresee from it?

    I think part of the answer is that it simply displays an extension of the policy decision to completely to exclude all competing interests from the Brexit process, which is founded on the assumption that a command and control approach will achieve optimum results. May’s fear that the referendum will undermine her efforts in Brexit negotiations is real and has considerable foundation.

    She is facing the prospect of conducting three major political conflicts simultaneously – one with the people to her north, one with those on the island to her west, and one with those in the continental landmass to her south and east. Given such a prospect, it is small wonder that she is panicking, so I think desperation is part of the explanation. She must realise that this sort of recidivistic colonialist approach is unlikely to succeed in cowing the Scottish government, but given the multiplicity of challenges she is facing, you can understand why she would play any card she has, no matter how poor it is.

    I think another reason is the sheer parochialism of the woman and those she has surrounded herself with. It has become increasingly obvious that she has little or no regard for the UK’s devolved institutions (a similar display of arrogance can be seen in the approach of her minion Brokenshire in the current Stormont talks). So there is wishful thinking there as well, as if with the snap of imperious fingers, rightful authority can be returned to Westminster and Whitehall. At the very least, it looks like a none too subtle attempt to put the First Minister back in her box.

    The other aspect to May’s parochialism can be seen in the audience that she values. We have already seen how her response has been portrayed as stately defiance in the MSM and I would not be surprised if that sentiment was shared by many of the good folks of south east England.

    But here’s where the whole thing comes unstuck. Those folks don’t get to vote in a Scottish referendum, and the good folks that do are likely to take great unbrage at being told that their democratically elected parliament should not be allowed to decide whether or not to afford each and every one of them the opportunity to have an equal voice in deciding their future. They are equally likely to bristle at the pathetic aspiration to restore a Thatcherite sense of moral and political superiority to the English political elite.

    The reason for this overly long contribution is that I think that the reasons behind May’s counterproductive imperiousness lie in the fundamentals of her political position and philosophy. If I’m right, this is good news for those seeking independence because it means that this unforced error will be repeated over and over again over the next 18 months. I reckon Ms May is going to be a wonderful promoter of the Yes vote.

  247. sassenach says:

    Does anyone else feel that the events of the last couple of days have assured the SNP Conference of VERY full coverage!!

    Delegates, be prepared and don’t ‘lose the heid’!!!

  248. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Effijy

    BBC Peaceful Protest 26th March 14.00 / 16.00 hrs. There is NO marching we gather at Pacific Quay and Protest. I have a meeting with Police Liaison next Tuesday , the F/B page will be updated afterwards Im here every day if you have any more questions or Bill Glen will answer any questions on the BBC BIAS PROTEST page.

  249. McDuff says:

    harry mcaye

    The reason the BBC demos were not effective is because very few people turned out on the day and that is my point, you need traffic stopping figures of 50000 plus which will attract attention both at home and abroad.
    1,8 million voted for indy in `14 yet when we have rallies or demos we get 1% at best. Where are all those people who want independence, we need them now.
    Of all the MSM the BBC is the main threat because the public watch it and believe it and the bias anti indy news goes unchallenged apart from WOS.
    Indy is about the people and I urge those people who want a free Scotland to get out there and demonstrate where ever that might be .
    I and mine will be at Pacific Quay on Sun 26th March and as you regard it as a “waste of time“ we won`t be seeing you there.

  250. Elmac says:

    Hilarious day. The chickens are coming home to roost.

    As a rule I would not read the “Scottish” Daily Liar, “Scottish” Daily Depress, or their many equivalents and certainly would never watch the totally corrupt BBC or other TV channels (being a non propaganda tax payer.). I rely on blogs such as this and general trawling of the internet to find the truth. What a disgusting, distorted UK world we live in. For goodness sake would the non troughers please open their eyes and see what is being done in their name. Have you no shame?

  251. Mike says:

    I have to admit I’m totally confused right now. I don’t know where we are or what options are in play.
    Are we seriously considering UDI at the moment? Is that where we are?

  252. Mike says:

    McDuff

    Its the lack of organisation and advertising. you need to get the dates and times out there in plenty time for people to be able to make arrangements for travel and time off work and getting the kids looked after or involved etc etc.
    Most of these rallies are fly by night and last minute gigs.

  253. Robert Peffers says:

    @gus1940 says: 16 March, 2017 at 5:37 pm:

    “The interesting question is who will be daft and vain enough to grasp the Brexit Poisoned Chalice.”

    Och! Gus1940, ye ken iz weel iz Ah dae wha’s gyte enuch tae tak a rinnin loup at the joab.

    A’biddy says Boris isna sae muckle gyte iz he maks oot. Ablins he’s iz daft iz a bliddy brush.

  254. Tinto Chiel says:

    “On a good day its £15bn deficit, youre too poor, Greece, ad infinitum. Its their only argument and arguing with them just goes round and round in circles.”

    But, Glamaig, England outwith the EU would be Greece with: warm beer, old maids cycling to evensong past the village green with cricketers/ morris-dancers, Ian Botham (“England is an island”) Nigel Farage, institutionalised paedophilia, und so weiter :grin:.

    That Greece thing when applied to us is strange: the birth of democracy, philosophy, Drama, History, Homer, Aristotle, Plato, Menander, Thucydides, Herodotus, architectural orders ‘n’ stuff.

    I’d take some of that.

    Except our history, philosophy, literature is just as interesting, just different.

    I like different.

  255. Training Day says:

    @ScottishPsyche

    Indeed. The MSM – we should refrain from calling them that as they are nothing but government and corporate propagandists – are busily engaged in promoting the absurd notion that Nicola Sturgeon is FM in spite of the will of the Scottish people – not because of it. The implication is that some form of coup has been staged while helpless, Union loving Scots looked on. The only fascism on display here, of course, is that of May’s government and her anti-democratic media ventriloquist’s dummies.

    The next week will be testing for democracy in Scotland, and there are many enemies queuing up to test our resolve. We must not flinch.

  256. stewartb says:

    Big moment for Scottish Labour coming up in Holyrood over the indyref2 vote. A defining moment on their position on the role, status and significance of the Scottish Parliament in representing the expressed will of the Scottish electorate the EU and in these (blindly obvious) changed circumstances since 2014.

    I posted this on Wings on 24 June, 2016 at 8:09 am

    ‘On the Scottish Labour website, these are notable quotes from Kezia Dugdale’s speech made on 16th June at a cross-party rally in support of a Remain vote in the EU referendum:

    “I’m proudly, passionately pro-European.”

    “Your vote, your individual vote, can make the difference between remaining part of a union that is essential for jobs, economic growth and the funding of public services, or your vote could be the one that sees us cast off alone in the world.”

    And I placed these remarks in the context of Labour Party posters placed outside polling stations on EU referendum day: “Labour IN for Scotland”. Notably, not just “Labour IN” or “Labour IN for the UK” but specifically “IN for Scotland”!

    In that earlier post, I went on the ask: ‘So after a clear majority of the Scottish electorate supported the “IN for Scotland” plea, what is the North British branch of Labour and its MSPs now going to do for those voters that followed Labour’s advice and did vote “IN for Scotland”?’

    From Kezia Dugdale’s comments tonight, it seems the answer is nothing – and likely to vote with the Tories to remove the rights of Scotland’s people to choose, and to (a) ignore the expressed will of the Scottish people in the EU referendum; (b) disregard the SNP government seeking to honour its winning electoral manifesto over EU membership with Labour supported; and (c) siding with a Tory party that intends to ignore the majority will of the Scottish people and also the Holyrood Parliament – this parliament that Labour is so proud of telling us it created.

    It seems that Labour in Scotland wishes the majority of people of Scotland to sacrifice (again) in order to preserve solidarity within the UK state with a majority of people in England and Wales who chose to make a different choice (on Brexit – and on voting Tory).

    A choice to maintain membership of the EU, which the party in Scotland supported, is less valued – does labour solidarity stops at the Straits of Dover? Of course fortunately for them, this position seems to coincide with their view that there is no conceivable circumstance in the known (and unknown) universe that could be worse than a Scotland being independent!

    PS. Just heard a continuity announcer on BBC2 at c. 7.30pm say, when trailing a programme next week: “With Scotland leaving the EU with the rest of the UK …” – its a done deal then, must be true as the BBC told me – subliminal messaging?

  257. Famous15 says:

    Just listened to a bit of Sky discussion on Brexit. It appears that Empire2 is the big thing and all you need is bigger and better beads for the natives.

    The only one talking sense was Boris Johnstone’s sister. She pointed to the map of the world!

  258. Rock says:

    “Now is not the time” means “Now is not the time”.

    As I had posted a couple of days ago:

    Saint Theresa of England and Wales has no option but to deny permission until after Brexit has been completed, or the Scottish colony is lost.

    According to Scotland’s greatest legal expert of all time:

    Robert Peffers,

    “All we need do is to go ahead and do what we wish and let them attempt to stop or prevent our exercise of what, under Scots law, is our legal sovereignty and let them take legal action.”

    That would amount to UDI. Who in their right mind wants that?

    The Yes movement has hardly 50% support.

    There is no way Scotland’s MPs and MSPs could be sure of a majority if they stood for re-election in such a scenario.

    I very much doubt that the SNP would go down that way.

    It is now or never for “sovereign” Scots to take matters into their own hands, under the guidance of “Lawyers for Yes”:

    Breeks,

    ” 4) We secure judicial review at Court of Session and have Scotland’s inalienable sovereignty recognised as the prevailing (if widely misunderstood) reality, prompting an emergency plebiscite to determine what we should do about it.

    Don’t know about you, but I’m liking option 4… a lot.”

  259. twathater says:

    Macart

    Really good link you posted http://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2017/03/16/may-just-handed-nicola-sturgeon-the-greatest-gift , thanks for that and the comments are also good , whilst i am here NANA thank you for ALL your links you are an invaluable asset to our community , along with your wee ripostes . After reading all the comments today i am a bit more calmer than i was when the mayfly made her pronouncement , as the item referred to above from a non partisan journo explains the mayfly has backed herself into checkmate.

    Hopefully her condescension, arrogance and ignorance of Scotland and the Scots will register with waverers and undecideds , as this is the future they will subject us ALL to , denigration ,subjugation subservience and asset stripping of Scotland and the Scots condoned by our very own unionist liebour tolie and lib dum tractors

  260. Glamaig says:

    Whats happening in England? 48% Remain vote, plus the buyers remorse crew, plus the people who were googling ‘whats the EU’ the day after, plus the people who dont want to leave the single market, plus people who didnt vote and wish they had – Mays support on the ground for hard Brexit must be pretty low, surely?

  261. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Macart Ah hiv Mitch Kilbride’s carpet Vax here send the Rugs er an i’ll gie them ah good drookit lol.

  262. Robert Peffers says:

    @caz-m says: 16 March, 2017 at 5:42 pm:

    “Does anybody know where we stand legally with this???
    Could we go to the UN???”

    Sheesh! caz-m, I’ve been telling you how it is legally since the last thread. A section 30 order is nothing to do with stopping or allowing a referendum.

    It is a legal agreement of both parties on how the referendum should be run and it also agrees that both sides will respect the result. The reason being that unless there is such an agreement a referendum is not legally binding on either party to the section 30 order.

    As to can we take the problem to the UN or Eu. Yes we can but I’m sure that both know that Westminster is run as the de facto parliament of England and the bipartite United Kingdom is no longer a United Kingdom but a quadratic union of countries with England in charge.

    The complication is that the UK is the member state of both organisations and they would ask why, after hundreds of years, we let them get away with it for so long.

    They do have a point there. However, I’m certain that when the two original kingdoms of the union do pull apart that Scotland will get lots of support from around the World.

  263. Rock says:

    “The UK’s political journalists are at best incompetent idiots, and at worst deliberate liars.”

    The Scottish media, led by the BBC, is the enemy of the Scottish people, in my view.

  264. Ed t head says:

    Not surprised at May seems to be the tactics of devide and rule, if they can get in fighting in the yes support they think they will win, but it looks to have backfired. I wonder if you can get odds on May being pm at the next election.

  265. Flower of Scotland says:

    McDuff

    I’ll be there at Pacific Quay. I go to most marches and Demos. They are good for our souls if nothing else.

    People power is a new concept in Scotland. We don’t demonstrate normally.

    Get out there! It can change perceptions.

  266. caz-m says:

    Looking forward to the BBC Scotland Protest Rally next week.

    Sun 26th March. Pacific Quay Govan Glasgow.

    First Rally of the season so to speak. Then we have the Indy Rally 3rd June Glasgow.

    How does that wee saying go:

    “Mighty oaks from little acorns grow”

    Hopefully Ronnie Anderson will post an updated link for more info.

  267. Sandy says:

    Wullie Rennie states that more than a million Scots have mental health problems. That cannot be true. People have given up listening to Wullie.
    Can’t you see, Wullie, your the danger to the nation’s health, the next best thing to “water-boarding”.

  268. Roboscot says:

    Welcome to Empire 2.0

  269. caz-m says:

    Robert Peffers 9.19pm

    hi Robert, missed your last post on the other thread.

    i am looking for guidance from yourself regarding what options Nicola has.

    In your opinion, Can Treeza block a referendum until she decides the time is right for Westminster???

    Or does Nicola have any powers to over rule Westminster???

  270. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Mike 8.50 The FaceBook pag for BBC BIAS PROTEST 26th MARCH 14.00 / 16hrs has been online since January . There is no fly by night organisation of this event.

    BTW GCC have no input on this event as its on private property & we only have to Liaise with the Police , who are very co operative & have to be commended on previous Bbc protests.

  271. Robert Peffers says:

    @Roddy Macdonald says: 16 March, 2017 at 6:06 pm:

    “In any event, a s.30 order is only required for a “binding” referendum.”

    Correct.

    “Under Scots Law the people are sovereign (which concept utterly passes the UK pundits and politicians by) so how could any Scottish Referendum possibly not be binding (on the Scottish Government at least)?”

    It is only binding if there is a majority vote.

    “It’s perfectly open to the FM to call a referendum without a s.30 order, all it would mean is that the Scot Gov couldn’t use government resources to campaign, but the SNP is loaded now with short money.”

    Ah! But why did you think Nicola began a campaign to raise a million just before the challenge went out to May?

    ” … In that case she has free reign over timing, question and franchise.”

    Yes and I’m pretty certain, for that very reason, Nicola didn’t actually want a section 30 order. I’ve great respect for that lady and I can usually guess how she is going to act but even so she often surprises me.

    “If we vote for indy, we get it. What is May going to do? Send in the 3 tanks the British Army has left?”

    The truth is the Tories may actually have been contemplating something along those lines long ago.

    They have whittled down the Scottish regiments, closed down air force, marine and naval stations throughout Scotland and moved the army into what were once the other services bases in Scotland.

    It wouldn’t be the first time the Tories have set UK troops against Scottish civilians. Not even counting the Miners Strike, the Dockyard Strike and when Churchill set the tanks on the Red Clydesiders.

  272. heedtracker says:

    Rock says:

    You’re really having a great time tonight eh Rock, you sneaky shit.

    This is not the fault of any btl commenter on WoS Rock. Have as much fun as you can now but it makes no odds.

  273. arthur thomson says:

    Some great humour on this page. I am really looking forward to more of Mike’s tales from another galaxy, brilliant. A great antidote to the Brit propaganda.

    I do think we should avoid being too hard on TM. She is a gift, Murphyesque and it would be a shame if she was to be replaced by somebody who was remotely competent.

  274. laukat says:

    Can’t believe May fell for it! The SNP have played her like a fiddle. I think Sturgeon realised in their first meeting that May is very thin skinned and not very politically astute.

    After the parliament vote for a Section 30 order next week I expect we are looking at a period of the SNP provoking May to repeat what she said today partly to reinforce the undemocratic message to Scottish voters but also so she has to say what in her eyes constitutes a mandate and a timeline. I expect the next polls will show a clear majority in favour of a referendum which will undermine May’s position.

    I suspect May will eventually say either not whilst I’m PM (then you’re in UDI territory) or that a mandate is a SNP majority in the Scottish Parliament. However by that point the council elections will be near and the SNP will use that as a demonstration of what their mandate is. If May does not move I expect Sturgeon to call a Holyrood election which will return a SNP majority and possibly reduce the Tory vote.

    Sturgeon has the means at her disposal to tie May in knots without calling a UDI whilst increasing the Yes vote and ruining her reputation in the eyes of the EU. Conversely May has no means by which to damage Sturgeon.

    A few months ago there was talk that Sturgeon didn’t want to hold a referendum she wanted to win one and everyone thought that meant she would only go when the polls were in her favour. I think when the FM says today that she wants a referendum on her timescale that she means exactly that, knows how to achieve it and will win it.

    Make no mistake the SNP have prepared a plan and we are only part way through. The UK Government is out of its depth.

  275. Rock says:

    Ken500,

    “It is illegal under EU/International Law. Under the terms Act of Union, Scotland has a separate legal system forever. Under Scottish Law the people are sovereign. May intends to delay. She is breaking the Law.”

    What are Robert Peffers and “Lawyers for Yes” doing about it?

  276. Bob Mack says:

    Let us all chill out. There are 18 months or more of this to go. It will die down in the media as other events take the headlines. We meanwhile must prepare for the long game. Build up our arguments ,resources and contacts.

    The British public though in love with the concept of Brexit have no idea of what it entails and quite probably no concept of the challenges and deprivation it will bring.
    This will become ever more clear as time goes on. Time is our friend ,not our enemy.

    If it should be that we are actually forced out of the EU then so be it. We tried everything we could to remain, and I have no doubt that the EU would look favourably on our entry in future.

    I believe we are in the last chapter of this story and heading towards the finale.
    Trust Nicola. Trust the Scottish government, and trust ourselves. We are not giving up nor getting frustrated Leave that to the Unionists. We will win.and that is what really matters.

  277. G says:

    They’d love to make sure that EU citizens don’t get the vote by delaying it until after Brexit. Well, they’re not on. It’s not up to Theresa May or Ruth Harrison, it’s up to Scotland, and we’ve already voted for it in the Scottish elections.

    Interesting to see the unionists that are content for their country to become a colony. So much for the partnership of equals. A marriage where only one can partner can choose to leave.

  278. Effijy says:

    Ronnie, that’s what I mean, is FB Facebook? I don’t use Facebook or Twitter, and I very much doubt that I’m the only one here that doesn’t, so we would never know what went on, until after it went on.

    It’s great that you put so much into this, but give as many people access to what’s going on via every channel that you can get, and this has got to be one of the better ones.

    Thanks!

    ronnie anderson says:
    16 March, 2017 at 8:39 pm
    @ Effijy
    BBC Peaceful Protest 26th March 14.00 / 16.00 hrs. There is NO marching we gather at Pacific Quay and Protest. I have a meeting with Police Liaison next Tuesday , the F/B page will be updated afterwards Im here every day if you have any more questions or Bill Glen will answer any questions on the BBC BIAS PROTEST page.

  279. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ronnie, caz-m –

    See ye’s on the 26th.

    🙂

  280. yesindyref2 says:

    Yes, it’s good to see that May and Sturgeon are in complete agreement: “Now is not the time”. Relations between Holyrood and Westminster are at an all time high!

  281. Robert Peffers says:

    @robin says: 16 March, 2017 at 6:28 pm:

    ” … Hmm does raise the question of what happens if Westminster just ignore the section 30 request until after brexit.”

    Jings! Not another one. Robin, We do not need a section 30 order to run a referendum. Am I going to have to repeat this till my typing fingers are raw?

    A section 30 order has nothing to do with stopping or allowing a referendum. It is an agreement – got that – an agreement between the two governments on how the referendum is to be run and what the questions should be. In return for the agreement both sides agree that the result will be binding.

    “democratic outrage or not it’s a tricky one.”

    Nothing tricky about it. Nicola goes to Holyrood, (that would make a great film title), and ask the parliament to vote for a referendum. After all she got elected on just such a manifesto promise. If she wins the vote we get a referendum

    “Do we have all SNP MP’s and MEPs and Scottish Parliament members all resign if so why to what effect etc…could happen you know and to declare UDI would need 50% plus 1 to stand any chance and that’s if Westminster bothered to let those elections happen at all until after brexit….gonna be an interesting few days”

    Scotland cannot declare UDI, (which is an illegal declaration), because under the law of Scotland the people are legally sovereign and if they give a mandate to any kind of organisation that represents them then it cannot be an illegal UDI.

    Westminster has no legal way to prevent Scotland from ending the United Kingdom as there are only two partner Kingdoms and they are both equally legally sovereign and because there are only two partner kingdoms there cannot exist a United Kingdom without Scotland.

    But here’s the really hilarious bit. There is no legally elected parliament of England and thus not a single person elected as a member of the Parliament of England.

    Their only way to have a legal government is for Her Majesty to call in someone and ask that person to form Her Majesty’s Government of her Kingdom of England and she has the non-elected House of Lords to call upon as no one in the commons is legally elected member of the English parliament. The first job of that new PM will be to organise an Election for the Parliament of England. Mind you Her Maj could declare military rule.

    The abbot who drew up the Declaration of Arbroath was a genius and may have had the second sight.

  282. One_Scot says:

    laukat, very good post.

  283. caz-m says:

    Ian Brotherhood 10.03

    @Ronnie, caz-m –

    “See ye’s on the 26th”

    You sure will Ian.

  284. laukat says:

    One_Scot, thanks

    I forgot to add that whilst the EU and the FM are making May’s life a misery I would also expect Northern Ireland to jump on. All that coupled with election fraud and general incompetence could force May out.

  285. Orri says:

    In 1918 the Republic of Ireland declared itself independent. It did not change the sacred constitution of the holy union called, at that time, The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. That change was left up to Westminster. The useful thing about having a near unanimity? of MPs at Westminster is that any confusion about who is the successor of the Parliament of Scotland and thus empowered to withdraw from the Treaty of Union is academic unless there’s a claim it’s the councils it the SNP or Holyrood.

    The trick is not to alter the Constitution of the UK. It’s to remove any legality it has in Scotland under our laws. Let Westminster sort out it’s own mess. Just as they had to do when last faced with a reduction in territory.

    On a slightly lighter note. Keep track of all the phrases being used when this lot and their acolytes talk. It’s sacred this, enshrine that, doctrine the other. We’re up against a sodding cult. Mother Theresa my erse.

  286. Elmac says:

    Just heard that Faisal Islam on Sky News said despite a recent surge in support there was still a majority against a referendum in Scotland. I had thought he was one of the less corrupt pundits. TV images clearly show he has two functioning eyes. Given recent polls I can only conclude he is as much a liar as the rest of them. What is wrong with these people – do they think we are stupid. Don’t answer that!

  287. yesindyref2 says:

    I posted this in The National article:

    The National Headline tomorrow:

    —————-
    May agrees with Sturgeon: “The time is not now”

    Nicola Sturgeon has said that a referendum on Independence should not be held until after the Brexit negotiations are complete, and in an interview yesterday, Theresa May agreed with Sturgeon when she said “The time is not now”.
    —————–

    Take it from there, The National 🙂

  288. Elmac says:

    Last post appears to have disappeared. Apologies if this is a duplication.

    Have just heard that Faisal Islam on Sky News said despite a recent surge in support the majority in Scotland were against a referendum. TV footage suggests he has two functioning eyeballs and, given recent public polling results, I can only conclude the man is a fool or a liar. Had thought he was less biased than some of them, apparently not.

  289. Robert Peffers says:

    @Marie Clark says: 16 March, 2017 at 6:58 pm:

    ” … I have great trust in Nicola Sturgeon, and she has a plan, nae doot o’ that, more than that it’s working wonderfully well.”

    She read that one very, very well, Marie.

    Right down to the one million quid appeal to get the funds up started before the trap was set and it took off like a rocket. So if she wins the vote in Holyrood the funds are there for the campaign. I believe she did not want a section 30 order and that is the reason for the fighting fund. With a section 30 order she could spend SG funds for the campaign but not without an s30.

    “Incidentally, could someone assuage my curiosity. When we win our scotref, what happens to these unionist parties?”, I wouldn’t worry about that. Most will adapt to struggle on until Nicola calls an election and a few of the chosen ones might get a skunk trimmed red robe. In any case not many voters would feel comfortable without an effective opposition and there just might be a rapid realignment of the former Scottish unionist parties.

    ” … I don’t think the maybot will be PM for much longer, watch out for Boris.”

    If there is prosecutions due to the Tory election fraud there might be a sudden election as the Tory majority goes right up the Swannie. Can you not just see it now Jeremy as PM and the Tory party in opposition and no Scottish MPs in the house.

    They would likely form an upper chamber at Holyrood.

  290. TheItalianJob says:

    @Elmac

    Yeah saw Faisal spout that nonsense. Had me shouting at the TV.

    Happening a lot to me lately. Some of these newscasters and paper review buffoons are not worth listening too.

  291. K1 says:

    Tennis analogy, the day after the eu ref, Nicola 15 love, the day before May was ‘supposedly’ announcing A50 trigger, Nicola 30 love, next Wednesday when our parliament votes to decide to trigger Scotref, Nicola 40 love.

    May can’t score one point against Nicola’s serve let alone hope to get tae deuce before next Wednesday. Unless the British government draw up the fastest legislation ever that secures Scotland’s place in the internal market and meets all conditions that Nicola’s team has put together in her compromise document, then and only then will a referendum be called off.

    That’s not going to happen. Late 2018 early 2019, Scotland votes to leave the UK. Game, set, match.

    The British government’s intransigence ‘is’ a major factor in accomplishing this and May and the Tories will go down in history as the government who destroyed the Union. They will suffer the consequences of this in ways that are unimaginable, once the English/Welsh realise that Scotland was to be sacrificed and plundered to enable the deals the Tories were about make re Brexit were fundamentally based upon Scotland’s resources and that was their ‘only’ card.

    The shock to the psyche and economy in England will leave them reeling…let us push this reality over and over again.

    The only reason Westminster wants to hold onto to Scotland is to destroy the SNP post brexit by ensuring our parliament is completely neutered, once the great repeal bill is enacted be assured everything we have gained over the past 17 years will be systematically destroyed…we will be at the mercy of a shower of ruthless and utterly hateful upper class wankers whose sole existence is founded upon their class remaining in power across these islands.

    Never forget the establishment ‘buys off’ everyone, ergo Red, Yellow and Blue Tories are one and the same. Never, ever trust a Tory.

    Nicola Stugeon knows this…she holds the key to Scotland’s destiny and she will not be bought off…with wee bawbees, and that’s what really kills them.

    We’re on that field beside her right now…remain calm and…hold.

  292. Glamaig says:

    Ivan McKee on R4:
    ‘the people of Scotland are sovereign in this’

    A wee signpost perhaps.

  293. TheItalianJob says:

    Surely if Mayhem and the Westminster PMs stop the ref will Scots law not be able to recognise our Scottish parliamentary sovereignty and pass a bill to proceed for Scotref.

    This then cannot go to the Supreme Court for a final ruling surely.

    Can someone more aware of our rights as a Sovereign people help me on this.

  294. Free Scotland says:

    There’s something really weird about the expression “now is not the time,” and that is that it’s always true. Because, by the time you reach the end of your statement and utter the word “time,” the time has already moved on by about 1 second from when you uttered the word “now.”

  295. Muscleguy says:

    Firstly I think if we start campaigning (after the May local elections) and move the polls to say 55% Yes May will be forced to concede, both the result and when.

    Secondly we can tell May that we don’t expect the rUK to begin the negotiations with us the day after the Yes vote. We can wait, and plan, and scheme and model and grid etc. until say the week after the Brexit negotiations conclude. They can rest for a week.

    Besides, I’m sure the EU will be wanting a break before they sit on on our negotiations with the rUK just to make sure we are being treated properly.

    If we concede these points then why can’t we have our referendum before the Brexit is done?

  296. Ken500 says:

    In 1918 the Irish Home Rule Bill was delayed because of the 1WW. Some Irish Republicans fought in the 1WW. The Home Rule was due to be passed through Westminster two weeks after the 1st WW started. In would have gone through the Lords later. Easter uprising 1916. Put down by the British forces.

    Ireland was partitioned by Lloyd George in 1922. Universal Suffrage 1928.

  297. Les Wilson says:

    Sorry a bit out of context, maybe I am just forgetful, whatever happend to the £10k that went missing from the Slab branch in Leith? Never heard about it, nor the Slab shenigans in North Lanarkshire either? What is happening to an investigation.

  298. yesindyref2 says:

    Ah good, just watching Sturgeon being interviewd by Bird, and Sturgeon says “First of all I agree with Theresa May, now is not the time”.

    Good stuff, as well as Sturgeon knowing what she’s doing, she seems to have some good advisors.

    Sally Magnusson is a disgrace, repeating propaganda, but the rest of them seem to be changing a bit. Not sure myself if the BBC Scotland shouldn’t just be left alone for a time – or whether it should be kept on its toes by a peaceful but “respectful” demonstration.

  299. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Just a reminder of a little bit of history, for you youngsters out there:

    Back in Thatcher’s time, in 1994 before the Scottish Parliament was re-convened, the Tories attempted to force privatisation on Scottish Water along the lines of the previous privatisation of all the English water boards.

    The then Strathclyde Regional Council, which was a substantial administration covering an immense area and not just the Glasgow conurbation, was having none of it.

    So what did they do? Why, had a referendum! There was no Sewell Convention in those days, and it had no legal force whatsoever. But it went ahead, and the support that it received from voters was overwhelming.

    So much so that Thatcher had to back off, and as a consequence Scottish Water remains a community-owned resource to this day.

    The moral of this tale is obvious: a binding referendum is preferable because it removes all legal uncertainty, but an advisory referendum (as was the EUref) can nevertheless have real political power even if no legal standing. That’s real sovereignity in action.

    It can be done, it just takes the balls to do it, and the popular support to back it up.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strathclyde_water_referendum,_1994

  300. scunner says:

    QT again – 5 mins in and I’m that close to switching over already. The good citizens cheering on Rees-Mog’s horseshit. Referendum in 20 years indeed.

  301. geeo says:

    Joanna Cherry brilliant already.

    My unionist bingo playbook filling up already…

  302. Bob Mack says:

    For anyone worrying about EU nationals being excluded from the vote, remember this fact. They, like us were told that to vote for independence meant Scotland would leave the EU. Remember that fact. There were 115,000 EU nationals entitled to vote

    Also remember these facts. The majority of home based Scots voted for independence. Those Scots also resident in England voted overwhelmingly to remain in the UK, whilst Scots who lived abroad voted to remain in a smaller number ,bit still to remain in the Uk.

    The fact is that losing EU nationals now, whilst it may seem important, may not have served us well before. I think it will affect the Unionist vote more.

  303. call me dave says:

    @geeo

    Listening on radio5 to QT.

    Joanna Cherry doing well but still has to nail that myth about the knew that there was going to be a EU Ref’

    Also she should get in about the VOWs not being met.

    But Dimblebum keeps interrupting… as usual.

    But VG so far.

  304. arthur thomson says:

    So Slab are going to work for the Tories again. What are they like? Oblivion is all they and their dogma are good for. I am convinced that Dugdale is now in the direct employment of and a front for the British state – a stooge. She would have caved in by this time without a handler to guide and support her each step of the way.

  305. Valerie says:

    The talent in SNP is huge, and worth the risk of blood pressure to watch one of our huge class acts, Joanna Cherry.

    Btw, for those not on Twitter, it is Ruth telling May to block. According to Laura K, sources say Scot Cons have been focus grouping for last 3 months.

    So Ruth has come up with ‘not now’.

    The level of ignorance and sneering from Bognor Regis is disgusting.

  306. geeo says:

    Joanna Cherry is fucking owning the show.

    Taking no shit from nobody, especially Dimbleby.

  307. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Joanna Cherry playing a blinder, but, if it was a football match, Dimbleby would already be off. He’s gone over the ball to try to stop her at least three times in the first 15-minutes.

    Ouch, she has just booted Dimbleby in the goolies on the currency.

  308. Fireproofjim says:

    Joanna Cherry.
    She is my MP. Aren’t you all jealous??

  309. Wullie B says:

    What the SNP should do next, hold their referendum debate, get the majority needed, apply for section 30 agreement, when the UK government knock that back , withdraw all of the SNP MPs, force a snap general election on a single issue manifesto, 30 SNP MPs or more automatically gives the SNP a majority of the Scots MPs and a mandate to hold a referendum as soon as possible, theis would be recognised by the EU and the UN as legally binding surely as it is the sovreign will of the Scottish People

  310. ScottishPsyche says:

    Joanna Cherry is an absolute star in the face of hectoring ignorance. I thank God I do not have anything in common with the majority of the people in that audience.

  311. jfngw says:

    The opinion on QT is that Scotland should not be able to leave until the UK (they really mean England) has the best deal. If the deal is not good for Scotland, that’s just tough. The Last Colony?

  312. caz-m says:

    I have a feeling that the “Remainers” in England will unintentionally do the YES campaign a favour when they constantly slaughter Brexit.

  313. ronnie anderson says:

    Reece Mogg the UK is my country ohawr lol

  314. Phronesis says:

    It’s endearing that the PM is so concerned for Scotland’s well-being that she doesn’t want Scotland to leave now or ever. So we must reassure the PM and the distraught press who seem especially over-wrought about the prospect of Scotland growing up. They must know that it’s normal to want to fly the nest, make new friends, find one’s way in the world and become self-sufficient. Scotland will thrive, do not worry we’ll keep in touch and occasionally visit.

    And what a relief WM that you won’t have to contend with any more of Scotland’s gripes and narking. Without those distractions you’ll be free to get on with the day job- disguising the economic madness of Brexit, rising inequality and child poverty, the low paid precariat class, energy poverty, collapse of state infrastructure, illegal proxy wars,the pending demise of human rights behind the crumbling edifice of democracy. Liberating isn’t it.

    ‘If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drummer. Let him step to the music which he hears however measured or far away’ Henry David Thoreau

  315. yesindyref2 says:

    @Valerie
    Bognor Regis used to be reckoned as a seaside resort for the common people (term of disrespect).

    I went there once and liked it 🙂

  316. The Dog Philosopher says:

    Forza Joanna Cherry! Great performance. Dealt with the currency issue well after a little hesitation. Trust that old chestnut will be put to rest in the fullness of time.

  317. scunner says:

    She is my MP. Aren’t you all jealous??

    Green with envy. We have that useless lump Murray.

    Still watching QT, bingo card nearly full.
    Did I mishear earlier, was Sturgeon described as “Mischievous”?

    Oh fantastic – card’s full now. “English people should get to vote Scotland out of the UK”.

  318. Legerwood says:

    Robert J Sutherland @ 10.53

    Mrs Thatcher was not Prime Minister in 1994. Mr Major was Prime Minister.

  319. caz-m says:

    What about the theory doing the rounds that Treeza made this statement today about Scottish Independence to turn the attention away from a report that came out about Tory electoral fraud.

  320. ronnie anderson says:

    caz_m If in doubt engage Deflective Button as TM did today.

  321. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Legerwood,

    Thank you for another (timely) correction. Another grey cell gone phut, I fear. (I could obviously use you as my PA! =grin=)

    What, it was that nice Mr. Major wot tried and failed? He who privatised the railways so he could play with the train sets like when he was a kid? Pshaw! Shurely shome mishtake…? (!)

  322. caz-m says:

    Aye Ronnie

    Oh look, a squirrel.

    That’s an auld Lamont trick. LOL

  323. Dr Jim says:

    If they thought they could win why block? Simples
    Nigel Farage is the secret advisor to Theresa May, his idea to block Scotland

    What! did everybody forget about Nige, there is a back door you know

  324. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Dr Jim aye there is a back door everybody’s got one its called a arsehole & they dont come any bigger than Nigel Farage.

  325. David P says:

    This week beginning with a stereotype of France, French people and their language, a stereotype which was offensive even in the 1980s…

    BBC state broadcaster ‘othering’ our European friends once again.

  326. Effijy says:

    Well Done Ms Cherry! First Class.

    We need more of our number refusing to be shouted down by
    Dimblebum.

    Can I appeal for some back up on this?

    Surely the Tories are Breaking their Manifesto Commitments
    by Increasing the cost of English Prescription charges?

    Prescriptions were free, and when imposing charges on them, this indeed became a new Tax on Health.

    The Tories have again Broken their Manifesto!
    They have increased Taxes!

  327. ChewinTheFat says:

    @Robert Louis: “As usual, Labour are siding with the Tories. I just cannot fathom them anymore.”

    I agree. The only reason that Labour are siding with the Tories on every aspect, especially on IndyRef2, is because Scottish Labour will have no function in an independent Scotland. So they fear being no longer relevant to Scotland – they need their Westminster counterpart in order to keep the money flowing into their party. They are so pitiful it’s unbelievable just how much.

    The even sadder thing about this is Scottish Tories and the Tories in general are laughing up their sleeves at Labour as they play right into the Tory’s hands while the Tory’s steal the Labour vote.

    I really don’t know why Dugdale and the Labour party don’t just disband right now and put themselves out of their misery. Because once Scotland votes for its independence they will be gone.

  328. mike cassidy says:

    “The break-up of Britain? Theresa May should beware the memory of Charles I”

    Now is not the time to go that far

    http://archive.is/UfzNT

  329. call me dave says:

    Oh the lunatic fringe are on! The 1st Scottish one to phone is a specially selected one for English consumption….what a zoomer. 🙂

    Good old Auntie darn Sarf!

    Please let Morag be listening. 🙂

  330. ScottishPsyche says:

    I have reached an epiphany. After watching QT, irritation or anger is usual. Tonight, though, after seeing how Joanna Cherry dealt with that audience and panel, I do not feel anything other than pity for those who cannot grasp what Independence for Scotland is all about. Onwards and upwards.

  331. Cactus says:

    A Merry Saint Patrick’s Day to all of our Irish bros & sis’s X

    Seize the dayream!

    It’s the 17th.

  332. HandandShrimp says:

    Caz-M

    If she did it isn’t working. The papers were having fun at Hammond’s expense over the NI and there has finally been a fair bit on the telly regarding the corruption over election expenses. To have 12 MPs being investigated by the police is no laughing matter…it is her majority that is at stake.

    The Tories are looking increasingly accident prone and tired. I don’t think this move by May will make things better. It will be just another woe to deal with down the line.

  333. yesindyref2 says:

    That National pic by the way would be a good election or referendum posters:

    “Is this what you want for the future of Scotland?”

    @Cactus
    Thanks for that I’d forgotten, my (Irish) wife would have told me I was a fecking ar*ehole 🙂 “One an AH, always an AH”.

  334. Bob Mack says:

    I know we don’t like the Daily Record, but you should see the front page Wow!!

  335. Karmanaut says:

    Meanwhile…

    Empire 1.0
    Empire 0.9
    Empire 0.8
    Empire 0.7
    Empire 0.6
    Empire 0.5
    Empire 0.4
    Empire 0.3
    Empire 0.2

  336. Robert Peffers says:

    @caz-m says: 16 March, 2017 at 9:42 pm:

    “In your opinion, Can Treeza block a referendum until she decides the time is right for Westminster???”

    There may be some obscure way that Westminster can stop a referendum but if there is I don’t know about it.

    The Westminster point of view is that Westminster has complete sovereignty over Scotland but there is no evidence to back up their view.

    The the law of Scotland is still based upon the people being sovereign and Scottish jurisdiction is recognized by the International laws – for example the International Law of the Seas.

    When the Lockerbie Bomber was to be tried both the USA and the UK attempted to claim legal jurisdiction to prosecute the suspect. However, in the end, it was conducted under Scottish jurisdiction and although it was held in a foreign country the court was declared as temporary Scottish Soil. This because the crime happened in Scottish Airspace. So even the Mighty USA could not override Scottish Legal Jurisdiction,

    So there is no doubt that Scotland’s legal jurisdiction is internationally recognized and thus the people, not the crown, are legally sovereign. There is thus no way that Westminster has overall Sovereignty.

    In the other three countries of the UK English law is the Rule of Law and they are all part of the, “English Constitutional Monarchy”, that resulted from the 1688, “Glorious Revolution”. That pre-dates the Treaty of Union. There was no Union of the Crowns in 1603 except only as a personal union of James I & VI. Which is why they English forced a Treaty in 1706/7. James VI was not legally sovereign so could not give away Scots Sovereignty and could not claim the English Kingdom for Scotland because England was under Divine Right but Scotland wasn’t.

    The Treaty of Union Article 19 states that the two legal systems are independent in perpetuity. So from where comes the claim that Westminster has overall sovereignty? In English Law the monarch of England remains legally sovereign but was forced to legally delegate the royal, “Divine Right”, to rule to the Parliament of England which was still independent from Scotland in 1688.

    So the only sovereignty Westminster can legally claim over Scotland is via the MPs that the Scots electorate send as be their delegated representative at Westminster while the rest of the UK MPs, while elected by the Electorate, represent the sovereignty of the monarch as the Monarch’s delegates.

    Sorry that explanation is long and involved but the only way to describe it.

    Or does Nicola have any powers to over rule Westminster???” Considering that Westminster has no powers to legally stop a referendum anyway the only other way open to May is to terminate the Holyrood Parliament as that was set-up by Westminster and there are even doubts May could do that.

    In any case as I point out the Westminster MPs elected by Scots are the legally sovereign people of Scotland’s legally appointed delegates of the people’s sovereignty and Nicola could recall them to Holyrood and install them as an upper chamber of the Scottish Parliament and let Westminster attempt to legally prove she has acted illegally. They would try to do this in the Westminster set-up Supreme Court and Nicola could thus challenge their legitimacy in the European Court of Human Rights at a time when Westminster was attempting to pull out of the EU.

    I ask you. What do you think the Westminster Parliament’s chances would be? Remember too that under the English, “Constitutional Monarchy”, the actual person who is legally sovereign is the Queen of England. Just as if you are tried in an English Court it is You vs Elizabeth Regina on the Court Case list.

    Can you just picture Auld Lizzie in the Court of Human Rights of Europe? Where her actual designation in relation to Scotland is, “Defender of the People’s Sovereignty”.

    Now I would call that a conflict of Interest – what about you?

  337. heedtracker says:

    BBC QT was torture to watch and just watching Ligger Neil trolling with really bad old gag on Glaswegian low life spans and it all makes sense of Sturgeon’s once in a lifetime ref thing. Watching Ligger lick England’s backside like this is not that much fun really. Cant think the English like it either. Maybe though.

  338. Les Wilson says:

    Just going to shut off the tv and it had been running as I had watched the bias of question time in action.

    Anyhoo, caught a clip of A.Neil, he said ” When Nicola Sturgeon said that Indy1 was a once in a lifetime event,she meant a Glasgow lifetime.So she was right on time!

    Think about that!
    Ashamed he is Scottish, can we officially disown him?
    As for the BBC allowing that, is frankly disgusting, another one to remember.

  339. call me dave says:

    WoS has an article in The National. 😉

    Record:
    PS: Little Britain. Hope link is correct.

    https://twitter.com/Daily_Record?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

  340. robertknight says:

    Delay, delay, delay is a wise tactic for the Mayhem Govt.

    After all, it’ll take the MoD a couple of years to plan, then implement, a strategy to get as many HM Forces bods from outwith Scotland packed into Scottish bases, (temporarily you understand), prior to ScotRef.

    It’ll also enable all EU citizens currently within Scotland to be instantly disenfranchised post-Brexit.

    An added benefit, for ‘them’, will be that if the EU plays hard-ball during the Brexit negotiations, then they’ll be portrayed by the Yoon meeja as being ‘nasty Johnny Foreigners’, which no sensible Brit/Scot would want to have anything to do with.

    Perhaps Mayhem, Truth and Fluffy aren’t quite as daft as they first seem?

  341. Cactus says:

    Cheers to ye yesindyref2, an all the best tae yer bonnie lassie 🙂

    To Ireland!

  342. Robert Graham says:

    Watching QT , first impressions Dimbles should as a previous poster said be sent off , Johanna Cherry being constantly presented with plainly moronic statements from a totally hostile audience, the constant reply from Dimples is yes you can come to that again, then forgets and moves on to the next moron, oh talk about a homer the Twelfth man, f/n disgusting, then again what would we expect from the BBC . Thank f/k it’s one of the best SNP MPs she under extreme provocation and playing a blinder.

  343. Bob Mack says:

    WOS in The National ?

    Rock, are you there Rock ? Rock WOS in the National!! You going to buy a copy ?

  344. Cactus says:

    Ye know how we’re working on the bridge to / from Orkney…

    Mibby it’s time to start working on the bridge from / to Ireland.

    Not all bridges (or borders) need be physical, but we do have girders.

    One Ireland.

    One Scotland.

    Many bridges.

  345. Ken MacColl says:

    Agree that Question Time format is seriously defective with an unbalanced panel, a hostile and spectacularly uninformed and patronising audience and a Chair who constantly interrupts the panellists if he disagrees with them – ie SNP speakers. Joanna Cherry did exceptionally well in those circumstances.
    I recall that when, back in 1936 on his deathbed, King George V was advised that he would soon be able to get back to Bognor responded with the timeless phrase, “Bugger Bognor.”

  346. cearc says:

    mike cassidy,

    That is a great article.

    http://archive.is/UfzNT

    It is quite astonishing how people fail to learn from history.

  347. Capella says:

    Dimbleby’s a Bullingdon Boy. So are David Cameron, George Osborne and Boris Johnston and many others. They’re rich dilletantes who specialise in trashing everything that’s worthwhile. Then they throw down money for repairs and swagger off to their posh boys’ club.

    Of course he will sneer at Johanna Cherry. Kudos to her for standing up to him and his rent-a-crowd.

  348. Tackety Beets says:

    QT , Our JC did well not letting Dumbell by fluster or interrupt her too much but he kept shutting her down, they ain’t used to direct answers. Most of our MPs and MSP are good at actually answering the actual question ……sadly not always given time to complete.

    As for Dumbell by. An old work pal would use a phrase to cover him ……

    “What do expect from a pig but a grunt “

  349. Still Positive says:

    Joanna Cherry was not only magnificent on QT, she is also magnificent in parliament. Swear the Tories absolutely do not want her to be there.

    She would make an excellent President in a republican Scotland.

  350. Valerie says:

    Haha

    Bet Rock is shitting his pants at Rev in the National.

    What a complete, whinging prat you are Rock.

    I’ve ignored your crap for 2 years.

    Support The National, you people, least you can do for your part in our country’s future. Every little bit helps.

  351. Wullie B says:

    Is it just me, but does anyone else think Reece Mogg is. A Tory clone of Alisdair Darling, and I was pleasantly surprised with the Times editor, seems pretty level headed what I have seen so far

  352. yesindyref2 says:

    I think the national has been trying to attract unionist readers which would be its best target market but hasn’t been successful. So now the gloves are off, and we can help that. I had a haircut this week (shaggy dog, good for morale, weight off my head), she’s a yes, but the table had the Star. So what we need to do is accidentally leave them in hairdressers, dentist, doctors, hospitals, post offices perhaps, in the vegetables or by the flowers in the supermarket, on the bus, train, wherever – as many Wingers are doing already. Where they don’t get spotted by staff and quickly removed!

  353. Rookiescot says:

    If the motion to hold a referendum is passed in Holyrood but rejected by Westminster could the impasse be challenged in the Scottish courts?
    All the way to the EU courts?

    Would the UK be able to leave to EU with such an action going on?

  354. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oh, it’s all over for Theresa now. She’s doomed. McTermite appeared on Scotland Tonight and declaimed that she was doing exactly the right thing!

    He has the very pulse of us, you know. We don’t want another referendum now, quoth McTermite. Maybe in 20 years’ time or something…

    (Isn’t it funny the way Labour and Tory are slowly morphing into each other? Same script, same phrases, same complete bollocks.)

  355. Grouse Beater says:

    This can’t wait until the weekend:

    An act of ethnic cleansing: http://wp.me/p4fd9j-eCM

  356. yesindyref2 says:

    @Rookiescot
    The way it would presumably happen is that the ScotGov would put into action its own “consultative” referendum, and that could be challenged in court. And of course the ScotGov would be able to appeal if the result went against them.

    If the CJEU (ECJ) got involved then I guess a stop could be put on Brexit proceeding while the ECJ case was being prepared and heard – even perhaps the negotiations. That’s just a guess.

    But it’s why, basically, May can’t actually say no, all she can do is the usual politician’s bluster and words that the media can pick up on and interpret however it likes “May says Scotland will be cast adrift and sent off to the Anatartic, and be populated with penguins”.

  357. Camz says:

    You know, when I waken up in the morning, I let the weather and my own general mood take me in the direction I want to go.

    Sometimes the events of life decide things for me.

    I never, ever wake up and think “I must tune in to the news, so I can know how to think / behave today.”

    I must have switched off from the news sometime around September 19th 2014, although I was very skeptical about what the news said prior to that day.

    I pity those that believe what the front pages say; what the new anchor tells them in matters political, and basically anything that requires a correspondent (media speak for the broadcaster’s opinion, rather than the actual facts).

    Ho hum.

  358. yesindyref2 says:

    Oh good grief, talk about spin

    https://twitter.com/Mike_Blackley/status/842405110458257409

    note there’s no odds for Sturgeon herself! From ladbrokes: “To succeed Nicola Sturgeon, either as FM, or Head of Government in independent state”

  359. Macart says:

    Ms May goes to the EU negotiating table with national assets belonging only to those who voted to leave the EU. That is only right and proper. Bargaining with the national assets and civic rights of a nation partner who did not mandate this action would have been reprehensible on every moral and democratic level.

    Let’s be absolutely clear. No First Minister of Scotland, regardless of party or ideology would be doing ‘the day job’ had they meekly allowed central government to dictate the dispensation of their mandate, their national assets or their civic and human rights against the mandate of the population.

    Scotland isn’t a region. The population of Scotland aren’t an afterthought on a treasury balance sheet. Scotland is currently a nation partner in the United Kingdom. We have been told, an ‘equal partner’ in a ‘sacred and precious union’. Indeed as has been noted many times, the only other signatory to the treaty of union.

    It’s time for Westminster government and those who promote this union partnership in Scotland to prove that point and on recent evidence of their actions, you have to wonder if they actually can. So far, I’m not terribly impressed with their idea of unity and partnership, which basically consists of patronising soundbite, condescension, ignorance and a less than democratic authoritarian tone.

    Scotland’s electorate will decide whether those assets are added to or stand on their own merit. That is also right and proper.

    Right now and especially after Ms May’s, Mr Mundell’s and Ms Harrison’s intervention, I’m not convinced by our partners approach that we should be any part of their negotiations or empire 2.0.

    I don’t think they’re entirely trustworthy you know.

    Just a feeling.

  360. Andy Anderson says:

    I realise it is very early in the campaign but I feel we are going to get some papers on our side this time. Not all articles are anti Scottish. Lat time the Sun nearly backed us according to Eck. Fingers crossed.
    Can you imagine the future. I can.
    FREEDOM

  361. Ghillie says:

    Teresa May is desperately out of her depth.

    Probably best not left in a paddling pool unsupervised.

    The BUM tweets? – Honest, clear, sensible headlines do not sell papers.

    Though to be honest, their daft, mad, lying explosions of nonsense don’t really sell papers either.

    Lose. Lose. Poor BUM.

  362. Ghillie says:

    Wee word of unsolicited advice for the UK’s current Prime Minister:

    Dear Mrs May,

    First, accept and find a way to come to terms with the fact that Scotland will soon return to being an independent country. You can be dignified about this.

    Secondly, accept that the days of the British Empire are now over. It’s ok to grieve, though be aware many of us won’t.

    Thirdly, take a long careful look at what is left with which you can negotiate a safe and dignified departure from the European Union (best take North of Ireland out of the equation as well. We can all see they are heading home too).

    Fourthly, cut your coat to suit your cloth.

    At some point allow honesty and decency to bang in.

    Good luck. Sincerely. You have alot of good people to look after. Get on with it.

  363. Dal Riata says:

    Ian Dunt’s article in politics.co.uk nails it. Following is just one excerpt:

    “As you can see from that interview, her every argument for the British Union undermines her arguments against the European Union. “It wouldn’t be fair to the people of Scotland” for them to vote on independence “without knowing what the future partnership would be “. This is almost comically ironic, given it is exactly what Brits were asked to do during the Brexit campaign. “We should be working together, not pulling apart,” she went on, seemingly with a straight face. She must at some level realise how absurd this all sounds.”

    http://archive.is/aW3Vr

  364. mike cassidy says:

    Would people stop saying Joanna Cherry ripped Dimbleby a new one.

    I might have to get the long spoon out and watch some of it!

  365. Graeme says:

    I see Nicola as a kinda national treasure, without question the most articulate and principled politician in the UK possibly even Europe

    but I sometimes worry she has what it takes to see this through to the bitter end, she’s up against a nest of vipers not to mention the fifth columnists in her own ranks, yesterday I thought she looked tired and drawn

    Hope I’m reading it wrong

    Graeme

  366. Ken500 says:

    Joanna Cherry was brilliant. People in Scotland only watched because she was on. How does she puts up with it? With such patience. The biased pro Brexit audience is chosen by a UKIP supporter. Where are they now? Farague fighting for his pension. The Westminster Unionists are delusional. Lemming over the cliff.

    Scotland will have it’s Referendum in autumn 2018 and will win. May is breaking EU/International Law. Nicola will get the support she is needing. Just have to vote every Unionist out in Scotland. May just sounds ridiculous.

    Good to see Rev Stu in the Press for all the right reasons. Raising such large contributions.

  367. Ken500 says:

    When the National starts publishing Rev Stu stats. I.e. The truth. The Unionist arguments are finished. Now on the run.

  368. mike cassidy says:

    The Rev’s article in the National was taking so long to appear I archived it instead.

    http://archive.is/p0QYV

  369. Dal Riata says:

    Les Wilson at 12:15 am

    “Anyhoo, caught a clip of A.Neil, he said ” When Nicola Sturgeon said that Indy1 was a once in a lifetime event,she meant a Glasgow lifetime.So she was right on time!

    Think about that!”

    Thanks for that, Les.

    So, Mr A. Neil said that, did he now?

    Oh, hahaha, that’ll go down well with your Unionist pals, eh, Andy lad, hahaha…! Well, here’s a few select bon mots for you Neil all the way from Glasgow and around the world: Yer mawz bawz, git tae fuck ya pure knobdobberin basturt ye!

  370. Macart says:

    Enjoyed the article in the National Rev. and well done the National t’boot.

    An article well worth reading and paying heed to.

  371. Dal Riata says:

    Great article in the National, Stu, and hopefully it will get spread far and wide.

    Well done, too, the National for giving space and voice to the owner of Scotland’s most widely read political blog – as of 8th June 2016, the 2nd most popular political blog in the *entire* UK! And, as of September 2016, the 26th most popular blog of all kinds in the entire UK!

    Thanks again the National, but, on these statistics alone (above), what kept you so long?!

  372. DerekM says:

    lol now be on your best behavior today guys as i think we might have visitors coming round for tea 🙂

    Excellent article Rev 🙂

  373. Ken500 says:

    The irony of the ‘low tax’ Tories taxing the Oil sector at 80% when the price had fallen 75%. Losing thousands of jobs in Scotland. Squint Trident costing £Billions.

    It is the US, China and India. It is the rest of the world that put on tariffs on other countries goods. Protectionism. It is not up to the UK to decide. That is why EU membership is important. To counter balance (500million people). Every EU member is Independent in the EU. EU only legislates 10% for the good. Nit fiscal outcomes. Not 90% from Westminster, against the majority wishes. A fiscal and political deficit. Illegal wars, banking fraud and tax evasion. A 1.7Trn debt and rising. The most unequal place in the world.

    A. Neil is unimportant and craves attention. Always gets the facts wrong. An alcoholic needs to seek help.

  374. Glaswegienne says:

    Excellent article in today’s National. One note of caution though : re ‘armies’ of people chapping doors. The vast majority of the 100,000 new SNP members DON’T go out canvassing and campaigning. I am a member of a very large branch and am very active in the current local council campaign. But it is always the same wee hard core of folk who turn out. This is a real worry. We try everything to get more members out, but it is a perennial problem in all branches.

    Many people, for reasons of physical fitness, can’t do it, while others genuinely have no time due to work and/or family commitments. But a lot of others just can’t be arsed.

    I hope this will change as a new referendum draws closer, because I am genuinely worried about the consequences for Scotland if we don’t get independence this time.

    (Keep up the great work!)

  375. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    Not very nice here this morning where we are. Your links will brighten the day.
    🙂

    Peace Always

  376. Hamish100 says:

    Dal riata

    That will win folk over.

    We know he’s an idiot.

  377. One_Scot says:

    If what happened yesterday is not enough to get anyone fired up to make a contribution to the referendum campaign,

    https://www.ref.scot/home

    Then I don’t know what is.

  378. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe, looks pretty wet here. There’s a lot of links this morning, posted just a fraction of what us out there. Some of the stuff I’ve read is frankly deranged, had to stop reading.

    http://zelo-street.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/tory-expense-scandal-screw-turns.html

    http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/222935/Report-in-respect-of-the-Conservative-and-Unionist-Party.pdf

    This went up by £10,000 during QT last night. Donate if you can.
    https://www.ref.scot/donate

    The anti referendum petition is gathering a lot of names, best get signing ours
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168781

  379. Ghillie says:

    Thepnr and mike cassidy, Thank you for the link = )

    Rev Stu in The National!!

    Things are looking up = )

    Really helpful article.

    Will have to get along to my local shop before they sell out. THAT is an article I would like to pass on and that could change minds = )

  380. Mike says:

    The BBC this morning are now stating that Teresa May DIDNT try to block a second Indyref.

    What the fuck is going on?

  381. G H Graham says:

    Theresa May is playing right into the hands of the Scottish Government.

    This latest response by her & her party’s handling of the Brexit fiasco demonstrates beyond all doubt that we are witness to a shambolic cabal of clueless buffoons & clowns; lurching from one crisis to another as they attempt to work out how rUK is going to survive economically without an equal trading relationship with Europe & the billions of pounds worth of wealth generated from Scotland’s vast energy, farming, food & drink sectors.

    It is a delight to behold.

  382. gordoz says:

    Right need your opinion wingers;

    One for the greys ( youngters need read no further )

    Who’s in what camp – just a bit of fun

    Guns n Roses or Steely Dan

    “What we have here is a failure to communicate or is this your Haitian Divorce”

    Q – Consider the above statement, research & discuss.

  383. Macart says:

    @Mike

    That’s because she didn’t. The media narrative was that of the FM and Scottish parliament being soundly telt.

    Look ATL at what she actually said.

    A shortening of what she actually said is effectively ‘Gonnae No Dae That’. She was asked repeatedly, when would be a good time? Only to stall and evade an answer. It was then left to the media to do their usual job.

    This was UKgov’s attempt to test the water of opinion and frighten the natives.

    It didn’t go down too well.

    What it has done, or rather what the UKgov/media narrative has done is hand the Scottish Government one of the Rev’s hammers. They’ve revealed the weakness of their moral and legal hand and pissed off a goodly section of Scotland’s electorate.

    The Jock bashing overnight in the media and on public forums has been a sight to behold. I’m guessing there won’t be much love bombing this time round.

    As I’ve said for what seems a long and weary time, the government and media narrative on all things Scottish has gone way beyond their power to halt at this point. It’s become the corrosive agent which has pulled the UK apart at the seams.

    Their choice (shrugs). It did not have to be this way.

  384. Nana says:

    Read Grousebeater’s blog

    https://grousebeater.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/colonialism-is-a-crime/

    I saw a tweet last night where an Italian has started a petition for Scottish EU membership. Will try and find it later

    Latest from Richard Murphy
    http://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2017/03/17/the-two-most-powerful-politicians-in-the-uk/

  385. robin says:

    I know BBC are having some live coverage of conference over the next 2 days but is there anywhere doing a livestream?

  386. Robert Peffers says:

    Just listening to that congenital idiot Garry Robertson making an arse of himself as usual attempting to harass John Swinney. Laughably Garry is talking more than John.

    This guy wouldn’t get a job in the media in any other country in the World. He isn’t even astute or clever enough to disguise his very, very obvious anti-Scotland bias.

    He couldn’t even hold down a post on the Blue Peter TV show as the resemblance of the Saltire to the Blue Peter signal flag would have him remain a gibbering wreck.

  387. Glamaig says:

    On GMS this morning
    Swinney: Scotgov has a mandate for an independence referendum
    Gary Robertson: but what currency will you use but what currency will you use but what currency will you use but what currency will you use

    Swinney at his obfuscating worst but towards the end of the interview suddenly morphed into attack dog Swinney at his absolute best. More attack dog please.

  388. Mike says:

    @Ronnie Anderson

    Ok Ronnie thank you but I’m afraid putting it up on Facebook is not nearly enough in terms of getting it out there no matter how long you leave it up there.
    I rarely go onto facebook and I bet most folk don’t either and when we do we still wont see these posting unless we specifically subscribe to the poster.
    It needs to be put out more mainstream. WOS Bella Newsnet Scotpop etc etc etc. Even the SNP web site why not?
    Wont do the SNP any harm to advocate for peaceful protest at blatant State manipulation.

  389. Nana says:

    @Robin

    Usually you can watch it here

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSnp

    I think indylive are covering it as well
    http://independencelive.net/

  390. Ken500 says:

    The Tories are in total disarray. The backlash has started not just in Scotland but in the rest of the UK/Europe. Everyone who has stood against democracy (in Scotland) is gone. May has the poisoned chalice. A lame duck fighting on all fronts.

    At the Conference Nicola will get all the support she needs. People are enraged at the Tories.

  391. Stoker says:

    Mike Cassidy (07:09)

    Thank you for archiving that ‘National’ article, it gave me the opportunity to read it because i would just have scrolled on by had it not been archived.

    To The National – How about a regular Friday column for his nibs (aka The Rev)? You never know, that kind of move may persuade folk to start buying the paper, if only on a Friday. You could get him to do a column along the lines of ‘A Week In Politics’ where he debunks all the major weeks political stories affecting Scotland.

    To Other Wingers – Does anyone know if that article of the Revs is in today’s hard copy or does it only appear online?

  392. Ken500 says:

    Don’t watch/listen to the BBC. No viewers/listeners no programmes. Just be selective. Get rid of SKy. There are plenty of alternatives.

  393. Mike says:

    @Macart

    Thank you. That was my thinking until I saw a report from the BBC which admitted that Teresa May didn’t openly advocate a block of Indyref herself but left it to Ruth Davidson and Fluffy Mundell who did confirm According to the BBC the PM blocked it.

    Hence my confusion when the same BBC this morning admitted she didn’t.

    Ive lost track over whether I’m seeing MSM wishful thinking or speculative reading between the lines or actual statement of facts.

    I think if anybody wants to stay out of the debate and remain ignorant of events then they should absorb as much MSM data as they can.

  394. Robert Peffers says:

    Radio Jockland going bananas this morning. I find it very comical. Reporting Wee Ruthie as being in a strop claiming that the SG are neglecting their day job because Ruthie thinks the Local council had a shortage of maths teachers in Blairgowrie and advertised for any local Maths teachers to get in contact.

    Ruthie imagines this meant they were asking for unqualified members of the public to teach maths. The truth is that the council wanted to contact and register qualified maths teachers at present retired or not working as teachers.

    First of all, as it is local authorities that employ teachers, it is nothing to do with the SG. Secondly it is illegal for non-qualified persons to teach in Scottish Schools.

    There is little doubt that the BEEB and Unionist political folks are in full panic and lashing out blindly mode. You can smell the Westminster fear from as far away as John o Groats.

  395. AndyH says:

    Garry Robertson is an embarrassment.

    He totally lost it this morning. His poor wee Unionist heart and pounding and adrenaline had obviously got the better of him.

    We deserve much better than that.

    Train wreck interview.

  396. Brian Powell says:

    Another problem coming up for the Unionist establishment is the situation in NI and Gerry Adams appeal to the US Congress for support in the way forward for a united Ireland.

    The last time Cameron got Obama to come to the UK and talk about not breaking up the UK or the EU.

    it will be difficult if the US Congress lends it s support to self determination in NI and is asked by the UK to speak against self determination in Scotland.

  397. Az says:

    Totally O/T:

    BBC Radio Shortbread on in background.
    Greeting about losing soft propaganda Great British Bake-off.
    Isn’t it wonderful, united by sponge from Somerset to Sutherland?
    Mary Berry, “national treasure”.
    Not that Paul guy, awful, going to Channel 4.
    C4 won’t get half the audience, not as good you see.
    But that’d be good for C4, big audience *for them*.

    Another weird day begins in the parallel universe of North Britain.

  398. Liam says:

    @mike

    I think May’s thinking here runs like this:

    “If it works and the SNP back down I can take the credit for saying NO. Ohh what a strong and resolute leader I am. If it doesn’t work Fluffy and Davidson can take the blame for having over-stepped the mark. I only said ‘Not yet’ THEY said ‘no’. What a canny negotiator I am.”

    Would explain why they didn’t look that happy at the news conference. They knew they were being set up to take the fall.

  399. Meindevon says:

    Radio 5 live phone in on Scottish independence now. Txt sent.

  400. Mike says:

    Borg Queen: Who the fuck is Tartan Jean?

    Galactically stupid media: Eh its A Tartan Gene and apparently its growing throughout yer Hive Collec eh Union.

    Borg Queen: Just tell me it has nuthin tae dae wie that wee Ginger Nyaff that refuses to be Assim.. eh pooled and shared?

    Galactically stupid media: No according to us but that doesnie mean it doesnie.

  401. Smallaxe says:

    gordoz:

    Got to be Steely Dan, “Haitian Divorce”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ATTU-g_hiNk&ab_channel=JanvanMulligen

    Peace Always

  402. Nana says:

    SNP conference briefing, includes info/links where you can watch

    https://www.snp.org/your_snp_conference_2017_briefing

  403. Meindevon says:

    Great speaker for Yes on 5 Live now called Paula. Our Paula? Replying to the usual UK is great, stronger together, once in a generation twaddle from a caller.

    Prof Curtice on now.

  404. caz-m says:

    Robert Peffers 12.12am

    Thanks for that detailed reply about what powers Nicola has regarding setting the date for IndyRef2.

  405. Jomry says:

    Re Jon Swinney GMS interview and increase in child poverty. John Robertson provides authorarive info on this which John Swinney might well have used. See. http://www.scoop.it/t/talking-up-scotland

  406. caz-m says:

    Sky News has got to be even more biased against Scottish Independence than the BBC.

    Reporting on the SNP Conference this morning they interviewed Jim Sillars and then Wullie Rennie.

    No pro-Indy supporter in sight.

    Strange, considering it is the SNP Conference they are covering.

  407. caz-m says:

    Did anybody else hear Andrew Neil last night say during his interview with John Nicolson SNP MP?

    Neil told Nicolson that “Scotland is a Nation but it is not a Country”

    What a strange thing to say.

  408. yesindyref2 says:

    From a Scottish Sun article (via Rev’s twitter retweet): “To be crystal clear, we are not saying The Scottish Sun currently backs independence. The nitty-gritty of that argument has yet to start.”

    “currently” 🙂 hehe

  409. Vestas says:

    @Brian Powell 9:03am :

    I don’t think anyone is going to take a lot of notice of anything the USA says for the next few years. Not while it has a president who retweets his personal tweets on the official POTUS account to get around the filters on that account.

    Trump will be anti-indy anyway because he hates Salmond.

  410. Brian Powell says:

    caz-m

    It is bizarre, Jim Sillars supports another party though refusing to give up his SNP membership. There are going to be 8,000 members at the Conference, there were a 100 or so at Rennie’s Conference!

  411. Valerie says:

    It’s like a parallel universe.

    Sky news keep going every 10 mins with Prince William dad dancing in Verbier, and is it ever appropriate for an heir to the throne. Ffs.

    However, they did manage to get Sillars in a clip talking shite. Nicola has made a big mistake, because we might get a free trade deal.

    I can only assume the poor man is not well because this is the most stupid thing thus far, given he is a Brexiteer, and clearly has no idea what’s going on with the Tories.

  412. David says:

    If Jim Sillars was a sheepdog he’d have been taken out to the back of the barn and put out of his misery by now

  413. Socrates MacSporran says:

    caz-m @ 9.37am

    I too was struck by Oor Andra’s:“Scotland is a Nation but it is not a Country” line on This Week. But, I reckoned, like the good Paisley Buddie he is, Andra had been oan the Buckie again.

    However, I checked my dictionary and found the following:

    COUNTRY –

    1. a. The territory of a nation with its own government : a State.
    b. a territory possessing its own, language, people, culture etc.

    2. Rural districts as opposed to towns or cities.
    3. The land of a person’s birth or citizenship.
    4. a. A territory, especially an area of interest or knowledge
    b. A region associated with a particular person, especially a writer.
    5. (British) A national population, especially as voters.

    NATION –

    1. A community of people of mainly of mainly common descent, history, language etc forming a state or inhabiting a territory.
    2. A tribe or confederation of tribes of North American Indians.

    I reckon, however you try to dress it up, Scotland meets the criteria to be both a Country and a Nation.

    It’s just a pity we have Scots such as Oor Andra who are so-determiend to do their country and nation down at every opportunity.

  414. Liz Rannoch says:

    Still waiting for it to go live!

    We CANNOT wait til England is out of EU. Remember the ‘Great Repeal Bill’? The 1st thing May will do is to scrap all EU treaties, conventions whatever. Things that protect Scotland (a bit) from the nastiness of the tories

  415. Big Jock says:

    Gary Robertson on radio shortbread sounded like a sweetie wifie nagging her husband, pathetic. John Swinney was weak though and could have shot him down over the oil question.

    Swinney is a great MP and minister. He is not able to deal with combative interviews. Hence the BBC love getting him on. I thought Joanna Cherry on QT was brilliant last night. She has a bright future.

  416. Big Jock says:

    Liz …the great repeal bill can not be done without Holyrood being involved. So May will soon find all these things out. I still think the referendum will happen in October 2018 though.

  417. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Jim Sillars – I speak as a former South Ayrshire constituent of Mr Sillars.

    Like the now politically deceased Jim Murphy, Jim Sillars has always had one over-riding priority – himself, Jim Sillars.

    I was in the small crowd in front of Ayr Sheriff Court after the 1970 General Election, when Sam Purdie in his valedectory loser’s speech pointed-out that Scotland had voted one way, England another, so, regardless of Scotland’s wishes – we had a Tory government.

    That speech by Big Sam (with whom I enjoyed a convivial couple of pints not that long ago) is supposed to have turned Sillars into a Nationalist.

    But, Sillars, being Sillars, had to form his own party, with him as the Big Cheese, and Alex Neil as the Wee Cheese, before they eventually found their way to the SNP.

    Sillars then (while I acknowledge there may have been other factors involved) dumped his very nice wife and set-up home with Margo (a far more astute politician by the way) and became a power in the SNP.

    But, as with Labour, he fell-out with a party who would not do it Jim’s way, and walked away from politics, to make some dosh in the Gulf.

    Then he came back and re-invented himself as a serious politician (a move I await with interest re Jim Murphy). However, since Margo’s death, I feel he has again lost his way, without her good sense and guidance.

    Jim Sillars should be ignored, he only represents the Jim Sillars for God Party.

    And, by the way – George Foulkes was a far-better constituency MP. George’s principles may have been wrong, but, he stuck to them.

  418. Valerie says:

    Watching Tasmina on Sky, so they are covering bits of conference anyway.

    Oh, they are covering Angus at 10.30

  419. Capella says:

    @ Stoker – the Rev’s article is in the hard copy. I buy a digital version and read it this morning. Digital version is exactly the same as the hard copy.

  420. shiregirl says:

    Dear god. Sillars on Sky News putting the boot in our FM and SNP.

    What is that all about? What’s his beef?

  421. Bill Hume says:

    If the Sun newspaper[sic], does support Scottish independence.
    .
    .
    .
    I still won’t buy it.

  422. Ken500 says:

    The BBC/MSM is not trusted in Scotland on any level.

    May and the Tories are going to find the world is not going to stop because of their inadequacies. The Tories are under attack from all sides. Anyone who stands against Democracy (in Scotland) is gone. Article 50 will bring them down. A. Neil is just looking for attention. He gets it on twitter. Don’t oblige.

    It would be good if Rev Stu stats are published in the National. It would hit MSM because ignorant journalists just regurgitate other columns.

    Joanna Cherry is speaking to a wider audience. Then a biased QT audience selected by a UKIP supporter employed by the biased BBC.

  423. Clapper57 says:

    BBCQT :

    Previous episodes : Well we had Banana woman…then the woman who thought the British Empire had been around since dinosaurs roamed the earth….now last night a woman questioning why SNP MP’s at WM….and STILL there are some asking… ‘How did Brexit happen?’

    Oh no they are not stupid these Brexiteers….their decision was informed….question is what/Who the actual fcuk informed their decision ?

    Evidence is everything and BBC QT provides weekly evidence as to level of intelligence…..that is lack of… involved in those who made decision to LEAVE EU and their reasoning…that is lack of… in reaching their decision.

    What is obvious is that they are all eager and willing to pay for the fuel to allow the Tories to drive us all off the hard Brexit cliff edge.

  424. Ken500 says:

    The SNP Conference might be covered on BBC 2 or the Parliamentary Channel.

  425. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Watching BBC News Channel – Lorna Gordon in Inverness speaking to Victoria Darbyshire in London. Ms Darbyshire is considered one of the BBC’s brightest stars, but, it was clear listening to her, like so-many in the Westminster/London media bubble, she has little or no knowledge of Scotland or Scottish politics.

    We are a small, far-away nation, of which they know nothing (and care even less).

    Their lack of knowledge of Scotland is their biggest weakness.

  426. Ian Brotherhood says:

    Missed the first hour of CallK. Curious to know how Steven Jardine handled the phone-in.

    Anyone hear it? Any thoughts?

    (Can’t imagine Kaye fancies another 2+ years of having to deal with this topic, and few of us would mourn her shifting permanently to Loose Wummin or whatever else she’s got going.)

  427. Glamaig says:

    wheres the best place to watch the conference live?

  428. yesindyref2 says:

    @Socrates MacSporran
    I know George Foulkes isn’t on our side, but he does seem to have his own ideas – and stick to them and be consistent with them. Regardless of who argues with him!

  429. Capella says:

    @ glamaig – Nana posted two links for the Conference. I’ve got both up but there’s nothing happening yet. Maybe still at registration and coffee?

    http://www.youtube.com/user/TheSnp/featured
    http://independencelive.net/event/990

  430. Fred says:

    @ Ronnie Anderson, in the last 2 years nae Scottish weans have been registered as “Nigel!” 🙂

  431. Liz g says:

    Big Jock @ 10.08
    The Great Repeal Bill & anything else Westminster chooses CAN actually go through without Holyroods? say so Jock!
    That what the Supreme Court just confirmed.

    Well…. LEGALLY anyway.
    What Westminster is tempered by is the
    ” Political ” ramifications of going against Holyrood.

    There’s even a bit of doubt that the European Court’s could do anything, because the UK’s Constutional arrangements state that Westminster can make and Unmake any Law.

    If we wanted any Actual undisputed “Legal” power for Holyrood we have to vote for Independence, anything else is just window dressing for the Political control of Scotland.

    Our MP’s will have no real say in the Great Repeal Bill and it can and Will remove most powers from Holyrood.
    Anyone who believes that they not only are they getting them back? but they will be topped up is delusional.

  432. Gerry says:

    Got a periscope link that is up just now for the conference as a back up
    https://www.periscope.tv/theSNP/1OyJAodwerNKb

  433. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Whoops!! Just noticed, Joanna Gosling and not Victoria Derbyshire is fronting the Derbyshire programme today.

    My apologies to Ms Derbyshire, but, my comments re under-informed London-based talking heads when it comes to Scotland still stand.

  434. Dal Riata says:

    Some wondering if Nicola Sturgeon has got what it takes to go the final mile…

    Scotland, and those of its people whose wish is for their country’s independence, is very, very lucky indeed to have someone of the quality and astuteness of Nicola Sturgeon as its FM in this time in its history. She is now 46 years old. She started her apprenticeship for the job when she was 16.

    At this moment in time, there are few politicians who can match the respect that is felt for Sturgeon *worldwide*.

    Nicola Sturgeon will be the one who leads Scotland to its promised land of independence. She will then be revered and acclaimed by the children of an independent Scotland for centuries to come.

  435. Marker Post says:

    @ Mike

    Yes, I got the impression that Ruthie and Fluffy had overstepped the mark yesterday. And Ruthie did a complete U-turn from 12 months ago. She might be forced to do another one soon, but her arrogance won’t admit it, and she won’t be picked up on it by the Scottish media so she won’t care. But it is making them both look weak and under the control of the London Tories.

    Actually, thinking about it,Ruthie’s done so many U-turns (remember her “line-in-the-sand”?), that no indy supporters listen to her any more. I suspect the only reason her star appears relatively bright is because of Labour’s collapse. And let’s face it, anyone looks bright beside Kezia.

  436. Capella says:

    While waiting – here’s a FT article interviewing alex Salmond on not having a currency union.
    https://archive.is/vFoEc

  437. Stoker says:

    Capella (10:11),

    Thank you!

  438. Liz Rannoch says:

    @ Big Jock 10.08

    Thanks, one worry to take off my weary head.

    Talking about weary – the BBC I see are really pushing to make sure we’re all weary!

    2014 Independence Ref
    2015 UK general election
    2016 Scottish Gov election
    2017 EU Ref

    One vote a year for crying out loud! Nicola should nip this in the bud. ‘What? are Scots too ‘weary’ to go to the polls once a year? We’re stronger than that! The Swiss had 13 referendums last year alone’.

  439. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Whoops!! Just noticed, Joanna Gosling and not Victoria Derbyshire is fronting the Derbyshire programme today.

    My apologies to Ms Derbyshire, but, my comments re under-informed London-based talking heads when it comes to Scotland still stand.

    And,of course, the conference is in Aberdeen and not in Inverness – I’m going back to my bed to start again today.

  440. HandandShrimp says:

    Dear god. Sillars on Sky News putting the boot in our FM and SNP.

    What is that all about? What’s his beef?

    Shiregirl

    Hell has no fury like the unsuccessful leadership candidate.

    This is the case for all parties. Jim is of course all but retired but the MSM don’t have many to draw upon to deliver such rants about the SNP. Jim, Alex Bell….and that is about it. Gordon Wilson sometimes because he views the world through his own fairly old fashioned religious prism.

  441. Stoker says:

    Glamaig wrote:

    “Where’s the best place to watch the conference live?”

    Without a doubt at the conference….
    😀 😉

  442. Capella says:

    @ gerry
    Thanks for the periscope link – on;y one I can get to work ATM. Listening to Angus speech
    https://www.periscope.tv/theSNP/1OyJAodwerNKb

  443. shiregirl says:

    Wow! What a turn out at the conference! No empty seats here 😉

    I feel quite emotional listening to Angus. It’s really hit home for me that in this past few days things have changed forever and we have the opportunity to be part of all this.

    My 15 and 12 year old kids are asking loads of questions and appear interested in what is happening – it’s so good to see.

  444. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Rev
    (re your National story) I got of the sofa years ago covering many miles & many events in the cause of Independence ( & will continue to do so however long needs must). We fight our cause for Independence on many fronts, the Bbc (direct action ) Protest’s are but one & a very important one.

    I dont take kindly to being threatened by Legal action from the Bbc over non payment of the TV licence fee & contributing to the British Propoganda Machine. 2nd class citizen im not & never considered myself as such, bbc reinforce those messages constantly on a daily basis.

    As for your description of those People attending the Bbc Bias Protest the event on 26th March
    as Loonies ( that description might have applied rightly to myself a couple of years ago ) been there done that I dont wear the T shirt. I wont take offence at that comment & I hope that other Wingers/Yessers attending the event wont either.

    I like many on this site value your daily contributions & that of the Wings Team BUT i take umbrage on behalf of the Many Many good People’s within the Yes Movement.

    As I said we fight on many fronts.

  445. Jimmy The Pict says:

    How odd, the annual conference of the third largest (by MPs) and largest and governing party (by MSP) started two hours ago. Nothing on BBC politics page about it. Nothing on BBC Scottish politics page either.

  446. orri says:

    I’ve seen quoted the actual cost to the public for holding the last referendum as £17 million. That’s about £5 per head for those who voted.

  447. Glamaig says:

    thanks to the BBC link not working I bloody missed Angus’s speech.

    Thanks for the periscope link, now watching.

  448. Liz Rannoch says:

    Right really angry now! Can’t find SNP PC. Independence Live has had some old duffer warbling on for ages now. Just seen a (part) of Angus Robertson’s speech on Victoria D’s show! Channel flipping like mad. grrrrr!

  449. One_Scot says:

    Does anyone know when Nicola will speak?

  450. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Fred And I hope it stay’s that way wains have a hard enough time growing up lol.

  451. ronnie anderson says:

    Anybody have direct links to the conference that Adam Boulton’s doing ma nipples in.

  452. shiregirl says:

    I’m showing my lack of knowledge here…but, need to ask. If we get enough votes at Holyrood – do we actually need to get permission from Westminster? Is this a legal issue? If we are refused, what then? Could we continue to hold another ref even tho’ it was rejected by May – would it be recognised?

    Like I said, I have looked for answers but there are so many different opinions I am not sure what is correct and what is opinion. Thanks 🙂

  453. Macart says:

    @ronnie anderson

    ‘we fight on many fronts.’

    That we do. 🙂

  454. Capella says:

    @ ronnie et al – only link that works for me ATM is the periscope link.
    https://www.periscope.tv/theSNP/1OyJAodwerNKb

  455. Nana says:

    Here you go Ronnie. It’s been difficult to say the least finding a decent link

    https://www.periscope.tv/theSNP/1OyJAodwerNKb

  456. Dal Riata says:

    Socrates MacSporran at 10:21 am

    “We are a small, far-away nation, of which they know nothing (and care even less).

    Their lack of knowledge of Scotland is their biggest weakness.”

    Nail. Head.

    You wouldn’t believe the number of English men and women I’ve come across in my work and travels over the years who are like that.

    The time leading up to IndyRef1 exposed this ignorance and arrogance to such a degree that it was jaw-dropping in its wtf-ness!

    Having ‘won’ IndyRef1 there is not a chance in hell that they have educated themselves on anything Scottish since then.

    I met a guy only yesterday who repeated the exact same shit he did pre IndyRef1, except, a la Britnat MSM this time round, he has become even more shouty and disrespectful. We’ve been gym-rat friends for years and won’t come to blows or anything daft like that, and we both know that. But the notion among the Britnats like him, that Scotland somehow ‘belongs’ to Scotland, will probably never go away, and I’ve told my friend this to no avail – “Nah, nah, nah, I’m not listening!”

    When Scotland eventually does go its own way, it’s going to be a huge psychological shock to Britnats like my friend here. But, by Christ, am I going to enjoy his and their torment…!

  457. crazycat says:

    @ Socrates (if you’re back up)

    Re: nation versus country
    On a number of occasions recently people have posted the official description of the UK lodged at the UN (I don’t have time to search for a link).

    That states that the UK “is a constitutional monarchy consisiting of two countries (England and Scotland), a principality….”

    (As a fellow former constituent of George Foulkes’, though, I’m a lot less generous than you in my assessment of him! This may have something to do with the fact that he once devoted half his weekly column in the Ayrshire Post to a fairly personal attack on me, on the basis of a letter of mine published the previous week which criticised my local council’s planning policy and thus a load of Labour councillors. Since I was merely a member of the public, I thought this was inappropriate. When I complained, he said he didn’t really mean it and was just filling the space!)

  458. Valerie says:

    @Capella 10.37

    Thanks, great piece, Alex on good form. They obviously coordinate all this activity too.

  459. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Thanks Nana.

  460. Dr Jim says:

    Is or isn’t Scotland a country: or from a Unionist point of view: Stop deciding things you’ve got no right:

    It’s not going to be on the ballot paper but it damn well should be
    England knows it’s a country in fact England thinks it’s several places all at the one time UK Great Britain and England, there you go that’s three places they get to call themselves but apparantly Scotland doesn’t have the right to call themselves just one

    According to all Unionist knowledge Scotland as a country was extinguished by them in the Act of Union and the Tories one MP in Scotland has delighted in telling us that
    We’re allowed to feel Scottish or believe ourselves to be Scottish but according to strict law we’re not Scottish but a region or county in the north of England

    Perhaps all those Scottish people who’s loyalties lie with the Westminster system don’t know that or maybe they don’t even care, and see, that’s where the problem is if you don’t care about stuff like that from a Scottish perspective then why do you care so deeply about being not English either

    Mrs May said one interesting thing if you don’t care or acknowledge where you’re from and what created you then you are a citizen of nowhere,if that’s true why would you even want to vote on the country you don’t care about being part of, see how confusing that is

    Mrs May would have you believe The UK Great Britain England is all and it’s OK to care about that but you should immediately refrain and desist from caring about who runs Scotland because as we’ve been told Scotland doesn’t really exist it’s all a fantasy in your mind

    So if you believe yourself to be soley British but not Scottish why take part in Scottish elections that you don’t care about, but here’s the thing, you do care or you wouldn’t do it, so what you’re actually doing is pretending not to care and shouting very loudly about it too

    It kinda makes the Unionsts view of democracy as hypocritical as you can get
    On a daily basis you’ll hear English folk demanding a vote on Scottish Independence so they can throw us out of Britain for having the temerity to want our own vote in our own part of it while at the same time telling us we’re desperately poor and can’t afford to leave

    It’s all too Shirley Bassey for me to grasp I love you I hate you ad infinitum, but when you break it down it’s easier

    The British want to keep the slaves but it would be an embarrasment to them around the world should the last of the British slaves want to run away from the cotton fields
    so stop the black Bastirts Oooh no these are white Bastirts (different colours?) makes no odds they’re all Bastirts from voting to do that just like they’ve done before with the entire British Empire

    And that’s what Unionists are? or think of your own word

    Insert here(……………………)

  461. John H. says:

    I too was strangely unmoved by QT last night. I was watching one of our very able MP’s patiently explain to a hostile foreign audience how democracy works, and that we Scots have every right to have a referendum any time we want.

    She was of course wasting her time, because they have been told these things so many times over the years to no effect. They think we don’t matter and can be safely ignored. After all, their Prime Minister has told us to get back in our box, so that’s that.

    As I said, I no longer get angry at our neighbours south of the border. The time for talking (to them) is almost over. We will have to concentrate all our energy now on persuading as many people as we can in Scotland to vote Yes.

    I look forward to a Yes vote and a blue and white future.

  462. David says:

    @ Shiregirl

    Admitting a lack of knowledge is admirable. Idiots dont do this

  463. Tinto Chiel says:

    I notice Humphrys, like Andra Neil, going on about the “Once in a lifetime/generation” statement again today.

    This is often presented as Nicola Sturgeon’s words, or some official pronouncement, or even some kind of “vow” . It was none of these things, it was a personal opinion expressed by Alex Salmond in this interview. It’s good to be clear about what he actually said:

    It’s from the Telegraph, but it’s archived so you won’t need the asbestos tongs:

    http://archive.is/7THmp

    Looks like I’ll be behaving like a loony a week on Sunday, and hoping to bring my three with me.

    “Ready for my close up, Mr DeMille.”

  464. Socrates MacSporran says:

    crazycat @ 11.14am

    On reflection, I should perhaps have put a caveat into my opinion that George Foulkes was a better constituency MP than Jim Sillars.

    George had his wife Liz at his back. Liz often took the constituency surgeries in Cumnock on a Saturday morning and was an absolute gem.

    Also, on a personal level, a one-to-one chat, George was alwasy better company than Sillars. George never thought of himself as “the star”.

    I remember once bumping into George in Cumnock, and remarking to him there must be a General Election coming up, since that was the only time we ever saw him on the streets. He laughed. I then told him I reckoned his majority would be around nine stones (it was weighed rather than counted back then).

    Today, we have an SNP MP – such has been the demise of Labour.

  465. Wullie B says:

    @Gordoz,, Well I certainly have an apetite for destruction with this failure to communicate, and I take offence at the greys, are you Baldist 😀

  466. Proud Cybernat says:

    @ crazycat

    On a number of occasions recently people have posted the official description of the UK lodged at the UN (I don’t have time to search for a link).

    I think this is the document you mean (link below – at site click on ‘Download original PDF file‘ to access the PDF).

    https://document.li/947r

    Curiously, I have looked for this document all over the net and can no longer find it. I had a personal copy which I uploaded to PDF Archive site (link above).

  467. Jack Murphy says:

    Nana said at 8:10am today:
    “……..
    The anti referendum petition is gathering a lot of names, best get signing ours
    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/168781

    Well worth it,even if it’s to view the constituency by constituency totals as at 12:20pm. 🙂
    Use cursor or finger to view individual constituencies.

  468. gordoz says:

    Right thats it class !!! – your all on resits (very poor response)

    (Wullie B / Smallaxe – your exempted , marks later):

    Resit paper –

    A) What are Guns n Roses or Steely Dan ?

    B) “What we have here is a failure to communicate or is this your Haitian Divorce”

    Q – Consider (B) the above statement, research & discuss.

  469. Davosa says:

    The lamentable display by Tanklez and Viceroy General Fluffy Spunkbeard yesterday were laughable in the extreme. Dugbrain and Wee Willie Shitforbrains were no better. Please, please someone put them up for the Colonialist side in the forthcoming indy ref.

  470. Mike says:

    Nana

    The Anti referendum petition should be judged by how many people within the UK DONT SIGN IT rather than on how many do sign it specifically because its open GLOBALLY and all you need to sign it more than once is more than 1 IP address.

  471. Mike says:

    Christ I tell ye something after all this we better win it this time.

  472. gus1940 says:

    Surely Uncle Tom Sillars must now be expelled from the party.

  473. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Ronnie Anderson (10.51) –

    Hear hear.

    A very disappointing comment from Rev.

  474. Socrates MacSporran says:

    Ronnie Anderson

    Keep the heid Son. The Rev did not call you and your colleagues, who will be protesting outside Pacific Quay “Loonies”.

    What he said was, with the BBC having the choice of what pictures to use, if they cover your demonstration “You could end up looking like Loonies”. That’s what the Rev said. It’s a wee bit like how Jimmy Hill’s comment: “Some people might call it a toe poke” turned David Narey’s goal v Brazin into a “Jimmy Hill called it a toe poke”.

    I would never begrudge you your opportunity to demonstrate at the obvious BBC bias against the SNP and the broader cause of Independence. But, and I am afraid there has to be a but: the Establishment knows they could well lose Indyref2.

    The British Establishment will use every dirty trick they can to discredit the cause of Independence, so, you just might find Agents Provaucatur or maybe some of Ra Peepul, complete with Union flags turning up to counter-protest and, with 19 September, 2014 as a guide, if trouble starts, you can rest assured, the MSM will never make out it was the Unionists who started it.

    Good luck with the protest, but, this is a golden opportunity for sinister forces to try to discredit the Independence movement, and, if that happens, well, the Rev’s comment about leaving you looking like Loonies will have come to pass.

  475. Foonurt says:

    Rock – urr ye gneiss urr mudstane? Mibbae, wae ah wee bit ah daurk biotite, urr shiny mica.

    Aye gurnin, wullnae dae nuhin, furr ye.

  476. Thepnr says:

    @Socrates MacSporran

    Everyday is a golden opportunity for “sinister forces to try to discredit the Independence movement”.

    Should that stop protests of any kind do you think? I won’t allow that crowd to shut me up. One thing I believe we must avoid is becoming so nice that we even fail to register on anyone’s radar.

    As Ronnie said there are many fronts and some have been doing it awhile and have not disgraced themselves. Peaceful, civil protests even with families present is a good thing!

    How it may be reported is nothing to do with the protesters. I fully support those that will get out their bed early from Inverness, Aberdeen, Dundee or whatever to be there to show our disgust at the BBC treatment of how it decides to cover the Independence movement or any story about Independence.

    We mustn’t cower, we must fight. Democratically of course and outside PQ is a good place to start. The least democratic place in Scotland.



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