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Wings Over Scotland


How it was meant to be

Posted on March 08, 2017 by

Today the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens all teamed up to pass a meaningless Holyrood motion declaring that the minority SNP government was a load of rubbish and smelled of toilets and its mum was fat and ugly.

(As an alert reader wryly noted: “Well, that’s a first. A one party state raises a motion against its own policy and defeats itself.”)

And we thought you’d like to be reminded that the Scottish Parliament was expressly designed from the beginning so that it would always work like that.

labourquash

They must be pretty chuffed with how it’s turned out.

Although they did admittedly have one narrow escape a decade later:

times07

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  1. 08 03 17 19:56

    How it was meant to be | speymouth

239 to “How it was meant to be”

  1. c rober says:

    the political version of yer da sells avon

  2. Roddy Macdonald says:

    And the Conservatives, Labour, Lib Dems and the Greens would do exactly what?

    Other than “No Second Indyref”, it’s a gey sair fecht to discern any policy whatsoever from the first 3 and I’m afraid I wouldn’t trust the Greens to run a school fete, let alone a nation’s education.

  3. galamcennalath says:

    Holyrood was meant to be a proxy for Westminster and never deviate too far from a pro Union / London centric agenda. However they didn’t reckon on democracy and the Scots having other ideas!

  4. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Wonder who education professionals will vote for?

    Doubt it’s for the Parties who say they are shite at their jobs.

    SNP Baaad not so much the Unionist Councils who actually control education delivery, typical BBC.

    2nd vote to the Greens still working out well then…..

  5. mogabee says:

    Nice of the Greens to join in with the school playground shite.

    S’ok Greens, personally I’ll make sure youse don’t have that chance to waste next election…

  6. Macart says:

    Robertson, McConnell and Wilson.

    Well at least we know who blame for the current constitutional and economic omnishambles. Oh and I’m sure folk would really, REALLY like to thank them from the the heart of their bottoms for perennial Conservative governments and ongoing platefuls of democratic deficit, arrogance and condescension.

    Thanks guys.

  7. No more second votes nonsense.

  8. Giving Goose says:

    What does Robertson care? He got his English Lordship.

    So did McConnell.

    Funny that, isn’t it?

    But that only shows what the reward is for screwing Scotland.

    Fancy a Lordship anyone?

    Just shit on Scotland and one is guaranteed.

  9. Auld Rock says:

    Hi All Isn’t it about time that we nailed this one on the head once and for all. Yes there are under performing schools but can anyone help with proof, statistics etc that the worst performers are all in Labour or Labour/Tory/Liberal coalition controlled Local Authorities? The stats must be there somewhere but I can’t find them.

    Auld Rock

  10. ClanDonald says:

    Is that a photo of Jack McConnell celebrating his “re-election” ? ????

  11. stewartb says:

    A key part of the Labour motion on Scottish school education related to Pisa scores. Worth reading this damning critique of this measurement scheme for perspective:

    http://archive.is/DqNNE

  12. Effijy says:

    Well one good thing, the SNP and Independence Supporters will no longer consider giving the nice wee Greens as second choice tick come election time.

    They are the new kid on the Westminster Block united in abusing and using their neighbouring Colony.

    When we are Free, I don’t think that we should sell them any of our renewable energy.

    They can sit in the Dark, Glow in the Dark with Nuclear Fuel,or use the Dark to ship in some Chinese coal.

    Stick that in your in your Green House Gases!

  13. yesindyref2 says:

    I hope that backfires on the Unionist parties and the Greens – particularly their rejection of Swinney’s amendment.

    Teachers up and down the length and breadth of Scotland must be getting really really hacked off with all the bad things being said about teaching, schools, education and the achievments of their pupils.

    Negativity lures OK, it seems.

  14. heedtracker says:

    That Brian Wilson’s still a bossy boots too, 20 years later, although now he rage wheezes at SNP “hegemony.” Wonder if they ever thought it would ever end for them?

  15. msean says:

    So,not a one party state then,eh? Good to know we won’t be hearing that again from the opposition.

  16. heedtracker says:

    Greens arent saying much though.

    Patrick Harvie? @patrickharvie 9h9 hours ago
    More
    How hilarious. I’m being trolled by Better Togetherers claiming Greens back the SNPs oil policy! Here’s the reality:

    Andy Wightman MSP? @andywightman 45m45 minutes ago
    More
    What would our workplaces be like if they were designed by women? asks @katesang at #IWD2017 @ScotParl event

    Desks, chairs, pc’s, phones, coffee shop, car parks, loos, corridors, lifts, reception, windows, a roof maybe, women like to be dry…

    Ah the Greens, for tories that think they have an actual conscience.

  17. Ian McCubbin9 says:

    Well they, Tories and Labour should be eating worms but guess not many of them read your blog Stu.
    If they did am sure they would squirm.
    However we in yes are not at the goal yet.
    It may be a dirty route to get there along the lines of what is shown here.
    Being nice on Twitter is one thing against a trolling Yoon, but in the ring of real life politics we may have to take on Prof Bairds suggestions.

  18. Phil Robertson says:

    Strange deflection tactics to drag up news clippings from the last century rather than promote a discussion about the state of Scottish education.

    And this is only a day after John Swinney rejected the views of the education committee at Holyrood (SNP-majority)who had the temerity to criticise the SQA and Education Scotland.

    Mind you the Eisenstadt effect will probably mean that the report will change in the next few days into something that betters toes the party line.

    Jockanese Wind Talker says:
    Wonder who education professionals will vote for?

    On the evidence submitted to the education committee it seems unlikely to be the SNP.

  19. heedtracker says:

    And this is only a day after John Swinney rejected the views of the education committee at Holyrood (SNP-majority)who had the temerity to criticise the SQA and Education Scotland.

    Phil R, that is the point of this WoS thing?

    Instead of focusing on Scottish education for example, yoon culture dopes were doing whatever it was this motion was meant to be or do?

  20. Albaman says:

    With the set-up in our parliament as it is today, we’ll have to get used to the other parties ganging up on the S.N.P., Labour, Conservatives, and the Lib/Dems, will vote against the S.M.P., as a matter of “their principles”!!, and yes, that includes the Greens,who I do not fully trust, when I look at them, I see a similarity to the Lib/Dems, inasmuch they will political bend to favour themselves first, before the country.
    I don’t care about wither the Conservatives call a snap election,
    But the only way we can get progress in our parliament, would be to call a snap Scottish election,
    Can you imagine it, a Scottish parliament election, local elections, the great repel act, a referendum, that should keep minds focused eh?.

  21. HandandShrimp says:

    Ian Gray said that John Swinney was ignoring failures…I thought John paid Ian more than enough attention…not sure what his complaint was really.

  22. twathater says:

    So basically all we’ve got is liebour proposing a motion of SNP na na na na na , no alternative ideas or positivity , just let’s all the shitey no user bench warmers moooooaaan constantly about how baaaaad the SNP are . The SNP better get their act together and vociferously point out to these twats their past mistakes , liebour PFI schools falling down , threatening children’s lives and futures ,causing massive disruption across the school curriculum, tolies ( not a mistake ) more interested in creating division within education by the proposal of grammar schools , I am so sick of the SNP SG being put on the back foot defending their choices , Go on the ATTACK and highlight how STUPID their lack of positive proposals are

  23. Capella says:

    Chancellor Hammond today says that Scotland will get £350 million in the Budget. Presumably he means via Barnett consequentials though he doesn’t say so. The Tories then fall about laughing.

    Can anyone explain why this is so funny? The Tory front bench looked like supercilious charlatans as usual. Call me humourless but I can’t see the joke. Anybody know?

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39204953

  24. Dal Riata says:

    Los Tres Amigos Traicioneros: Lord Robertson. Lord McConnell. SNPBAD Nuclear Weapons Good Wilson.

    Traicioneros Scots, scum to a man.

    And the Greens, eh. What’s the point of being ‘a Green’…? Cause fuktifino!

  25. Rock says:

    The Greens, stood a candidate against the SNP and allowed the Tory viceroy of Scotland to be re-elected.

    In a London by-election, the Greens stood aside to give the Lib Dem candidate a better chance to unsit the Tory, which (s)he did.

    The Greens are utter hypocrites. If you want independence, don’t vote for them at any level.

    SNP all the way until after independence.

  26. galamcennalath says:

    Capella says:

    Can anyone explain why this is so funny?

    Perhaps the mention of the word ‘Scotland’? We’re just one big joke to them. Never did understand private school boy humour.

  27. Phronesis says:

    It’s not SG that’s failing our young people when the measure of any society’s conscience is how it treats its young people. If we want to stop failing our young people then we should extract ourselves from the toxicity of WM policies,

    Analysis form the Institute Fiscal studies;
    Child poverty will rise from 27.5% in 2014-2015 to 30.3 in 2021-22
    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8957

    Statement from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation:

    “It is disappointing that the Chancellor’s warm words about the challenges that many families are facing across the country have not resulted in real support. The Chancellor acknowledged that many people have been suffering a living standards squeeze for almost a decade. This won’t be changing any time soon with wages predicted to rise barely faster than prices and benefit changes beginning to bite.
    “With a working family of four on Universal Credit likely to be £1000 worse off than expected by 2020, millions of working families could see a real drop in their living standards. That’s why it’s essential that the Chancellor uses the money gained from a growing economy to ensure that families can continue to make ends meet.
    “The Chancellor is right to say that boosting productivity is key to raising living standards. Investment in technical skills, training and research could help people into good jobs in the future, but there was very little to increase the skills of people who are already in work, struggling with high costs and low incomes now.”

    http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/news.nsf/articles/JRF+Spring+Budget+Response+08032017163000?open

    Statement from the Children’s Society;

    ‘The Chancellor said today he wanted to show ordinary families that the dice weren’t loaded against them, but this Budget has failed to shift the odds in their favour.
    ‘Today’s OBR forecast shows inflation is set to rise to 3.9% this year, in contrast child benefit has increased by just 40p since 2010. The four year freeze to family benefits coupled with rising inflation already means that parents’ incomes are buying less and less each month; the Chancellor has offered them little to bridge that gap today.
    ‘In the UK 5 million children are expected to be living in poverty by 2020. Two thirds of children already in poverty are from the ‘ordinary working’ families the government says it is making a priority. But the increases to the National Living Wage and personal tax allowances announced mean little in the face of steep rises in inflation, the freeze to family benefits and cuts to tax credits for those with three or more children.
    ‘The Chancellor says he doesn’t want to burden our children’s futures, but today he missed a crucial opportunity to improve the lives of millions of children.

    http://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/news-and-blogs/press-releases/the-childrens-society-responds-to-todays-budget-announcement

    Statement from the Child Poverty Action Group ‘thin gruel for families’

    “The Budget may have put the next generation first in words, but it was silent on the huge rises in child poverty projected by the Institute for Fiscal Studies over the next five years. Nothing does more to damage the childhoods and life chances of our children than poverty.
    “The language may have changed from JAMs to Ordinary Working Families, but the result still was a thin gruel Budget for parents trying to get on– the very people the Prime Minister has said she would prioritise. Cuts to universal credit have left it hanging by a thread but there was no move today to rescue it for low earners. That’s a problem that’s going to get worse every day it goes untackled.
    “Families with children are highly exposed to rising costs, stagnating wages and cuts to key benefits and will be pretty disappointed that this Budget doesn’t give them the help, the breathing space, they are looking for.
    “Last week the IFS projected that the number of children in relative poverty will rise by 1.2 million to 5.1 million by 2021-22 due to real-terms cuts in tax credits and work allowances. The question arising from today’s Budget is, will the Government bring forward policies to avert the projected increase in child poverty or will it plough on with cuts that are badly damaging working families?”

    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/budget-2017-new-language-more-thin-gruel-struggling-families

    Won’t it be a proud moment when we not only abandon children in this society but all around the world as the opportunity with Brexit to snuff out universal rights and progressive child welfare becomes irresistible to WM. There is no democracy without human rights,no human rights without democracy and the WM cabal is hostile to both.

    Given a bit of time the workhouse for the 21st century and an updated 1834 Poor Law can be imagined with the same end result ‘nothing is necessary to arrest the progress of pauperism, except that all who receive relief from the parish should work for the parish exclusively, as hard and for less wages…Where cases of real hardship occur, the remedy must be applied by individual charity , a virtue for which no system of compulsory relief can or ought to be a substitute’

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/1834-poor-law/.

  28. Bob Mack says:

    @Capella,

    They were laughing because one of the Tories shouted out “And you are getting our money”. Others joined in and hence the hilarity.

    The usual you lot are all dependent stuff.

  29. Roboscot says:

    The Greens are a separate party in opposition. They are entitled to oppose.

  30. Nana says:

    @Capella

    could it be this, the tories shouting “Scotland getting our money”

    https://twitter.com/AngusRobertson/status/839465397191643137

  31. Rock says:

    The National heavily promoted the Greens, with the aim of preventing an overall SNP majority, in which it succeeded.

    If you want independence, spend your spare money on WOS, not on The National.

    Don’t be duped.

    Poor yesindyref2 can only afford £5 per year for WOS but probably spends £100 or more per year on The National.

    Does (s)he post 20 times more on The National than (s)he does here?

    yesindyref2,

    “To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

    Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”

  32. Capella says:

    @ Bob Mack @ Galamcennalath – Oh thanks. I did wonder if it was just the word Scotland but if some Tory twit shouted out a lie I suppose they would think it funny especially if by “our” money they meant English money in which case it was also racist as well as inane.

  33. Bob Mack says:

    @Phil Robertson,

    Wonder if any of the teachers who gave evidence were from Unison or GMB both affiliated to Labour?.

    Several Scottish Labour members were also teachers Lamont, Findlay for example. They have many contacts.

    Never trust a unionist.

  34. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Oh please, everybody, this is just infantile posturing of the opposition parties ahead of the local elections.

    The Greens in particular, being small but ambitious, are hoping to energise their troops and also demonstrate to the public at large that they aren’t creatures of the SNP and therefore more able to attract votes from people who have detached from the yoons but can’t yet bring themselves to put the SNP high up their preferences.

    Good luck to them if they can push aside SLab, Con or FibDem, and thereby make pro-indy administrations more likely.

    Which is what we need to keep the pressure up on London for newindyref. So stow the kneejerk reactions and keep the big picture in mind. Your opponents certainly are.

  35. Edward Freeman says:

    When the fragrant Ms. May informed a horror-stricken Armadillo the other day, and a few Scottish Conservatives, that Scotland was behind even (shock!!) ESTONIA and (anguished moans!!!) POLAND in education, I did wonder where she was getting her information. I thought too that her attitude was quite gratuitously offensive towards Estonians and Poles generally, in a “who knew they had any education at all over there” sort of way, for having the gall to have successful education systems in their countries. I decided too that on previous showing, Ms. May might be being just a teensy bit economical with the truth. That is why I decided I ought to have a look for myself.

    I guessed that Ms. May was probably talking about the Pisa rankings, as every dog with an educational bone to pick with the Scottish Government likes to use those as (ahem) a stick to beat the SNP with, and I’m as sure as I can be that it was indeed the Pisa rankings she was using.

    Leaving aside all consideration of whether those Pisa rankings are necessarily worthwhile and reliable indicators, or even whether the whole exercise is even a good idea in the first place, I am not convinced that some small differences in the rankings are necessarily either statistically significant or outwith the range of variation that you would expect to see year on year. Second – and hold on to your hats for this one, people – the WHOLE UK is behind Estonia and Poland in the Pisa rankings. That’s right – even Tory-controlled England!

    For that, Ms. May, and for your education motion at Holyrood Ms. Davidson, Ms. Dugdale and Mr. Rennie (and Mr. Harvie), I thank you for your valuable contributions to the educations of Scotland’s youth. I look forward to seeing the reports that I am sure will soon be forthcoming from Ms. Davidson, Ms. Dugdale (and Mr. Rennie?) of how the Education Conveners of the various local authorities which their parties control have been summoned to their respective branch office headquarters for thorough carpetings, serious dressing-downs, stern wiggings – with whole strips torn off – for their abysmal failures in the delivery of quality education at Scotland’s schools.

    In the words of Ms. May, they have “got away with it for too long”.

  36. heedtracker says:

    Roboscot says:
    8 March, 2017 at 8:37 pm
    The Greens are a separate party in opposition. They are entitled to oppose.

    Yes but what was the point of this motion, Green wise? Its an easy question too. Green’s are meant to be pro Green, look at how badly treated the renewable energy industry is by the tories, yet there they are, the Greens, voting together with the tory party.

  37. yesindyref2 says:

    @Roboscot
    Yes they are, but in this case I think their vote was unwise. They could have voted for the motion, but also for Swinney’s amendment, and come out clean.

    As for Mundell by the way, possibly the best asset YES have managed to plant in Westminster.

  38. Robert Graham says:

    I have to laugh at the childish antics of these parties , the ones who gave us a Parliament building 10 times over budget , PFI whos interest payments would even make Wonga blush , Edinburgh Tram fiasco that recently broke the 1 Billion Pound mark , add that to the numerous blocking moves on agreed remedies to problems they suddenly do a U turn on just for a few headlines .
    What do they offer ? ,Opposition for opposition’s sake , obstruction just to be bloody awkward , and where do the Public figure in this ? oh f/k them we are Playing games isnt it fun . And the BBC are having a bloody good knees up at the prospect of the SNP getting a kicking , oh jolly good fun , the B/strds .

  39. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J Sutherland
    I (almost) totally agree. The Greens can target voters the SNP can’t reach which they should have done last time, but now have indicated they will do. But this is the problem:

    “He [Swinney] tabled an amendment saying Holyrood “congratulates pupils and teachers on their achievements” and should note “a continued increase in the positive destinations for young people leaving school”.

    By voting against that the Greens are, effectively, denying the congratulations the pupils and teachers deserve. Whatever the party politics, the pupils are innocent, and the teachers are stuck with the system and do their best. It’s the system needs improving, and Swinney acknowledges that. The Greens need a guidance teacher!

  40. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Nana, Capella,

    The Tory twits in WM can snigger all they like, but they just make it increasingly unfathomable to us all why the Tories are so keen to keep us in their UK Inc. if we are such a drain upon their (highly uncharacteristic) largesse with public money.

    Whether she mouthed it or not, Mhairi Black’s alleged silent comment is definitely the most apposite response.

  41. Phronesis says:

    It’s not SG that’s failing our young people when the measure of any society’s conscience is how it treats its young people. If we want to stop failing our young people then we should extract ourselves from the toxicity of WM policies,

    Analysis form the Institute Fiscal studies;
    Child poverty will rise from 27.5% in 2014-2015 to 30.3 in 2021-22
    https://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/8957

    Statement today from the Joseph Rowntree Foundation:

    “It is disappointing that the Chancellor’s warm words about the challenges that many families are facing across the country have not resulted in real support. The Chancellor acknowledged that many people have been suffering a living standards squeeze for almost a decade. This won’t be changing any time soon with wages predicted to rise barely faster than prices and benefit changes beginning to bite.
    “With a working family of four on Universal Credit likely to be £1000 worse off than expected by 2020, millions of working families could see a real drop in their living standards. That’s why it’s essential that the Chancellor uses the money gained from a growing economy to ensure that families can continue to make ends meet.
    “The Chancellor is right to say that boosting productivity is key to raising living standards. Investment in technical skills, training and research could help people into good jobs in the future, but there was very little to increase the skills of people who are already in work, struggling with high costs and low incomes now.”

    Statement today from the Children’s Society;

    ‘The Chancellor said today he wanted to show ordinary families that the dice weren’t loaded against them, but this Budget has failed to shift the odds in their favour.
    ‘Today’s OBR forecast shows inflation is set to rise to 3.9% this year, in contrast child benefit has increased by just 40p since 2010. The four year freeze to family benefits coupled with rising inflation already means that parents’ incomes are buying less and less each month; the Chancellor has offered them little to bridge that gap today.
    ‘In the UK 5 million children are expected to be living in poverty by 2020. Two thirds of children already in poverty are from the ‘ordinary working’ families the government says it is making a priority. But the increases to the National Living Wage and personal tax allowances announced mean little in the face of steep rises in inflation, the freeze to family benefits and cuts to tax credits for those with three or more children.
    ‘The Chancellor says he doesn’t want to burden our children’s futures, but today he missed a crucial opportunity to improve the lives of millions of children.

    http://www.childrenssociety.org.uk/news-and-blogs/press-releases/the-childrens-society-responds-to-todays-budget-announcement

    Statement today from the Child Poverty Action Group ‘thin gruel for families’

    “The Budget may have put the next generation first in words, but it was silent on the huge rises in child poverty projected by the Institute for Fiscal Studies over the next five years. Nothing does more to damage the childhoods and life chances of our children than poverty.
    “The language may have changed from JAMs to Ordinary Working Families, but the result still was a thin gruel Budget for parents trying to get on– the very people the Prime Minister has said she would prioritise. Cuts to universal credit have left it hanging by a thread but there was no move today to rescue it for low earners. That’s a problem that’s going to get worse every day it goes untackled.
    “Families with children are highly exposed to rising costs, stagnating wages and cuts to key benefits and will be pretty disappointed that this Budget doesn’t give them the help, the breathing space, they are looking for.
    “Last week the IFS projected that the number of children in relative poverty will rise by 1.2 million to 5.1 million by 2021-22 due to real-terms cuts in tax credits and work allowances. The question arising from today’s Budget is, will the Government bring forward policies to avert the projected increase in child poverty or will it plough on with cuts that are badly damaging working families?”

    http://www.cpag.org.uk/content/budget-2017-new-language-more-thin-gruel-struggling-families

    Won’t it be a proud moment when we not only abandon children in this society but all around the world as the opportunity that Brexit presents to snuff out universal rights and progressive child welfare becomes irresistible to WM. There is no democracy without human rights and no human rights without democracy and the WM cabal have no interest in either.

    Given a bit of time the workhouse for the 21st century and an updated 1834 Poor Law can be imagined with the same end result ‘nothing is necessary to arrest the progress of pauperism, except that all who receive relief from the parish should work for the parish exclusively, as hard and for less wages…Where cases of real hardship occur, the remedy must be applied by individual charity , a virtue for which no system of compulsory relief can or ought to be a substitute’

    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/education/resources/1834-poor-law/.

  42. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    you seem to be obsessed with the fact that yesindyre2 contributed what he felt he could afford to the WOS fundraiser. You’ve mentioned the fact umpteen times over the past week.

    How much have YOU contributed to the WOS fundraiser?

    On the same tack – how much have YOU contributed to the two fundraisers linked below?

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/iscot-magazine-phase-3-the-last-call#/

    https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/glasgow-studio-more-freedom#/

    I think, in the interest of fairness, YOU should declare how much has come out of YOUR wallet, instead of merely castigating yesindyref2, based on your YOUR perception of how he should spend what spare cash he has.

  43. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    yesindyref2 @ 20:58,

    Agreed. They indulge in just a little too much unnecessary posturing. Inexperience mainly, I suppose, combined with a certain preciousness of their own.

    Stupid if they risk losing some of the potential benefit.

    But for we plebs, worth remembering a pithy guide that I read somewhere recently about STV, gleaned from the NI experience:

    vote.till.you.boak

    (In my case that will be stopping short at Lab and Tory and any under-stone crawlies, but that’s just my situation in Glasgow. The calculation may well be different elsewhere.)

  44. heraldnomore says:

    In recognition of yet more shite from Rock I’ll be buying extra copies of The National tomorrow, to help spread the word.

    Keep it up old chap.

  45. Clootie says:

    Greens….which side are you on?
    Can you not see the bigger picture?

    How do I ever trust the Greens in the Independence campaign when they are driven by the narrow ego of party politics.

    ….Scotland comes first. We need control of the economic levers first…wake up!
    A petty point score to enable unionist smirks…why???

  46. Kupo says:

    Well thats them telt then. Quelle, great surprise. Is this the sort of constuctive criticism we were led to believe if we gave 2nd vote to greens? The sort of constructive criticism that looks at a policy and decides we’re voting against that-because we???
    No looking to agree to possible ammendments( I mean what policy is perfect) to allow bill to pass. No, just we don’t like it and by the way your education is crap, don’t know why, but if we were in charge I bet we would do a better job, because we said so, and it makes us look and feel important, you know what we mean.

    I always thought constructive criticism was meant to improve and move something forward after a debate, not leave it in the pan to stew away and stink up the room forever and ever. I’m reminded of the anti-sectarian abuse football bill that was not so long ago rejected, outvoted with not a word of why they didn’t like it? What would their alternative be? Just its really really bad.

    Well done to all those giving the greens a chance. I mean they’re no just their to keep the seats warm, they’re their to make our magical twirling, always twirling rainbow parly a reality( its true bella & the National said so among others) and to hold the bad, bad, so, sooooo bad SNP to account, constructively,( there’s that word again) of course. Thus making our parliament a more action, focused, less apathetic, moany one it used to be when things didn’t get done.A wee ? but why would we want to vote an SNP government in charge thats doing pretty good under the circumstances, but at the same time, to have less power to get anything done at all because it’s important to give that power to the greens who then pass the policy or whatever to those that hate and I really mean hate our country and everything in it? Now that sounds absolutely rediculous, daft even, but that is what people voted for. No foresight at all. All people kept hearing was RAINBOW PARLIAMENT that sounds good. I want some of that. Good job, guys. But I’m happy to say we all get to make up for our mistakes, though, and thats the most important thing to take from this parliament term.

    And I am not a member of any political party. I’m just someone who sees a competent government slightly neutered for no reason.
    Independence first and foremost. Not before indy, but after, we can and should vote for whomever we like.

    Remind me, but is our education in a better state than most of the restUK. And when lab/libdem coalition had it at with more money at their disposal on top of to boot.

  47. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

    Point well made regarding BLiS Trades Union mouthpieces @Bob Mack says at 8:43 pm.

    It’s the same with the SNHS, Policing and Fire.

    There is always a Trade Union BLiS arse kisser with an eye on the greasy pole of self entitled troughing that is BLiS Party or Council elections when the BBC or DeadTree Press need a comment.

    As for @Phil Robertson and his ilk I make a habit of not feeding the trolls.

  48. K1 says:

    Seriously…the Greens can go fuck themselves. I’m now not placing them on ma ballot and will be suggesting likewise to any one that will listen! Partner just confirmed ma sentiments after relaying the tale: ‘They’re a bunch of fuckers’.

  49. Rock at 8.40

    When did the National heavily promote the Greens. Examples please.
    There is five times as many SNP contributors to the National as Greens.

  50. Robert Graham says:

    While am up on ma horse , any slight ground Patrick has managed to claw back recently, has been well and truly tossed oot the window, the greens would have us all on f/in bikes, I wonder how many Cyclists it would take to get an Emergency heart attack patent to Hospital even with them peddling, I know that sounds stupid but so are the miles of empty Cycle lanes that have changed a perfectly good wide safe road into a drivers nightmare of Chicanes and speed bumps, by the end of a once easy peaceful journey the driver is f/kd , yeah that’s progress for you eh Patrick.

  51. jfngw says:

    The Greens are mere show-boaters, they will support any vote that they feel will achieve some headlines for themselves. They have received the headlines, I have taken note and will ensure they have no ranking in my council vote.

    By voting down Swinney’s motion Con, Lab, LibDems & Greens have effectively said to teachers and pupils that they think they are under achievers. Or isn’t everything in Scotland shit to put in more simply, these parties still have no ambition for Scotland.

  52. Rock says:

    Brian Doonthetoon,

    “Hi Rock.

    you seem to be obsessed with the fact that yesindyre2 contributed what he felt he could afford to the WOS fundraiser. You’ve mentioned the fact umpteen times over the past week.”

    Are you his minder?

    Is he too busy posting 20 times more articles in The National than he does on WOS?

  53. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    Yes, I think they weren’t far off holding out for that ridiculous Scotland-killing 60% on high rate tax thing and voting against the budget. And they were savage they weren’t asked into coalition, something which near killed off the LibDems. They’ll learn.

    Yeah, STV, the Tory used to be OK on local issues, and does work with the SNP on a local level for some things. The Lab guy is Alex Gallagher and he is a good councillor, I’ll feel guilty leaving hin off. Again! Last time he got in anyway, this time I think he’ll lose. But apart from that I’ll use all my preferences.

    @Clootie
    I wouldn’t doubt Harvie or Greer’s commitment to Indy for an instant, I don’t really know the rest of them to make a comment.

  54. BJ says:

    Mundell looks like one of those Lizards in “V” when he rolls out his little pointy tongue.

    Hes an absolute failure as a Scottish secretary. I don’t think I have ever heard him stick up for Scotland or say anything positive about our MP or MSPs. Disgusting little man.

  55. Rock says:

    Dave McEwan Hill,

    “When did the National heavily promote the Greens. Examples please.”

    You are The National’s chief promoter here. Look up their issues leading to the election. You should have copies.

  56. Ken500 says:

    55% of the Scottish population go to University. 30% by the time they are 30 years. 25% mature students. 15% of students are reciprocal EU students, ? foreign students paying the full cost and students from elsewhere getting a subsidised education.

    Scotland (pop 5Million) has 15 Universities (plus college).

    In China, South Korea and Finland 40% of population go to University.

    China (1.3Billion) has 2200 Universities (plus colleges)
    South Korea (pop 100 million) has 45 public and 155 private (pay?) Universities (plus colleges)
    Finland (pop 5million) has 10 Universities (plus colleges)

    In South Korea pupils study from 8 am till 12pm. They get 7 hours sleep. 6 days a week. Pupils commit suicide because of the pressure. In the West it would be considered child cruelty and abuse.

    The Unionists/Greens waste £Billions on grotesque projects at local level and do not fund education, social care and essential services properly. They are the problem. They can’t count or read a balance sheet.

    The SNP has not increased fees. Students get a full loan. Labour means tested loans. Students of households of average earning could not get a full loan to go to Uni. The SNP has funded more apprenticeships,

    Westminster cut education funding £6Billion a year and increased student fees in the rest of the UK. The Tories are now trying to set up technical colleges and bring back selective grammar schools. Brexit means there has been a massive drop in foreign students.

  57. Thepnr says:

    Patrick Harvie must be a complete idiot, people such as myself wanted to back them as they apparently supported Independence so in every scenario I saw them as an ally rather than an opponent.

    I won’t vote now for any Green that stands in my ward, that dickhead needs to be sent a message. I have no problem with a party that might disagree with the SNP but to support a motion that says the Scottish Government are “failing teachers, parents and pupils” is just risible.

    The truth is that for years the number of pupils leaving school with at least one higher has since 2007 gone from around 40% to over 60%. Petty politics is not my thing and this is what the Greens have just proven they are playing.

    Sad but there you go, I hope you read this Harvie. Your a numptie!

  58. Rock says:

    K1,

    “Seriously…the Greens can go fuck themselves. I’m now not placing them on ma ballot and will be suggesting likewise to any one that will listen!”

    I was warning about the Greens “to any one that will listen” long before the election:

    “The Greens could most certainly not be relied upon.

    They would hold an SNP government to ransom on every issue, let alone on referendum.”

    Like I have been warning about The National “to any one that will listen”.

  59. Capella says:

    @ Nana – Thanks for link. I don’t know how Angus Robertson can stay so polite and how the 56 can restrain themselves from just walking out. Maybe they will soon.

  60. jfngw says:

    I see Mhairi Black is being criticised for mouthing ‘you’re talking shite hen’, very unparliamentary. The correct usage in parliament is ‘you’re talking shite hen, woof, woof’. Will they never learn parliamentary procedure.

  61. Rock says:

    Thepnr,

    “Patrick Harvie must be a complete idiot, people such as myself wanted to back them as they apparently supported Independence so in every scenario I saw them as an ally rather than an opponent.”

    Was I seeking attention with my “decrepit ramblings” when I was warning about the Greens before the election?

    You couldn’t possibly admit that I was right and you were wrong?

    Thepnr,

    “Rock you are nothing more than an attention seeker, you love it when anyone responds to your decrepit ramblings.”

  62. Dr Jim says:

    What is it with folk who keep thinking the Greens are a political party…They’re not! They’re a tacky wee protest movement

    Chairman Harvie declaring himself relevant again

    He’ll be very relevant at every SNP branch meeting at a town near you coming soon
    Of course that’s not official SNP policy, it’s mine and a whole shedload of SNP voters since the last time he did this, and it wouldn’t be so bad but it’s for no reasonable reason

  63. Jimbo says:

    The Greens are going to be looking for 2nd or 3rd preference votes from SNP voters in May – They won’t be getting any from me or mine

  64. Tam Jardine says:

    I’d like to reiterate Call me Dave’s post on the last thread and suggest anyone who wants to watch a withering analysis of Hammond’s budget should check out Stewart Hosie at 14.11

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8a000060-1bde-4491-bffe-4359e85832ea

    Well worth watching

  65. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr
    I hope the Greens do well in the council elections – after the SNP of course. They’re hoping to stop the Tories making too many gains:

    http://www.thenational.scot/politics/15137698.Greens_to_field_more_than_200_candidates_in_bid_to_halt_shift_toward_Tories_in_local_elections/

    and I agree with them. They could push Tories out, or at least keep them out.
    It’s why they’re going too far as I think they did today, to differentiate themselves from the SNP: “A vote for the Greens is NOT a vote for the SNP” kind of thing.

    This motion was meaningless anyway, gesture politics.

  66. Thepnr says:

    @Rock

    Still seeking attention then. You’re a bigger numptie than Harvie. You will never receive a response again from me. Your not worth it.

  67. Ken500 says:

    In South Korea 34% of 15 year olds are out of education. 1/3 of youngsters are not even in tertiary education. So much for comparable ‘tests’.

    In Finland children go into primary education until they are seven years. The equivalent of primary 2 would be nine years. How can comparable tests be between – 7 years and 9 years. Both primary 2.

  68. Capella says:

    If you don’t rank the Greens high up in your list of preferences in the Local Elections you will allow Unionist Parties to gain seats under the STV system. Then Theresa May will claim that the appetite for Independence has evaporated.

    See James Kelly’s advice on Scot Goes Pop.

    http://scotgoespop.blogspot.co.uk/2017/03/a-bit-more-on-value-of-using-all-or.html

  69. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr
    Careful or it’ll flounce off Wings 😌

  70. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Jimbo @ 22:01,

    So you would prefer a Tory or SLab or FibDem instead, then? Which could very easily happen. You abdicate your choice, you let all non-quitters decide for you.

    Very not “take back control”, that…

    Hmmm…

  71. Robert Peffers says:

    @Phil Robertson says: 8 March, 2017 at 7:58 pm:

    “Strange deflection tactics to drag up news clippings from the last century rather than promote a discussion about the state of Scottish education.”

    O.k. Phil. Let us here on Wings promote just such a discussion – Shall we?

    Here is a cut & paste from :-

    http://www.gtcs.org.uk/TeacherJourney/scotlands-education-system.aspx

    This is an item about Scottish Education.

    (The emphasis is mine).

    “Political responsibility for education at all levels is vested in the Scottish Parliament and the Scottish Government’s Education and Lifelong Learning Department. State schools are owned and operated by local authorities which act as Education Authorities. There are also a number of independent privately run schools in Scotland, many of which come under the umbrella of the Scottish Council of Independent Schools.

    Thus any responsibility for failures in the provision of school buildings or their upkeep is that of the local authorities.

    Any failures to employ enough teaching staff are the responsibility of the local councils.

    Any failures to meet the standards set by the Scottish Government are due to the local authorities.

    Any failure to provide the equipment and resources in Scottish schools is the responsibility of local councils.

    Now what was the point you were making again, Phil?
    Why the hell you continue to come here with your usual specious arguments and always get yourself shown as a fool is something I do not understand.

    No doubt there are some failures in The Scottish Schools system but as far as any sensible person can see they are all due to the local councils, mainly in Scotland controlled by Westminster based unionist parties, failing Scotland’s children.

    The failure to provide enough staff, to ensure the correct standards are kept and to maintain the buildings and equipment in proper and safe condition are that of the local authority.

    Are you going to dispute that claim?

  72. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    Thepnr, yesindyref2,

    No chance, he’s hard to remove. Rather like a wart, really…

  73. winifred mccartney says:

    I said a while ago the greens were on probation – they have now shot themselves in the foot and in the head. Hell mend them.

  74. Still Positive says:

    The other parties in Holyrood have just proved they do not care about the people of Scotland, particularly our young people and our teachers who are doing a sterling job.

    As a retired teacher (2011) who taught in Glasgow where just about every school has a mixed catchment area of the very poorest and most deprived and some better-off pupils to varying degrees.

    Believe me, it is a very difficult job in trying circumstances at times. So when most of your MSPs tell you that you are not worthy of praise that is more than soul-destroying. They should be totally ashamed.

    My strong point was teaching the lowest ability pupils and it was extremely rewarding when I managed to get them to believe in themselves and watch them blossom – it took a lot of imagination on my part, and occasionally a bit of luck.

    The best compliment I ever had was from a boy in my lowest S3 section when another boy was trying to catch up with gossip after a lengthy absence, he said, ” Shut up, she’s on oor side.”

    One thing I can tell you that when cuts come to school budgets, teachers blame the local authority and not the SG.

    Sorry for the length.

  75. heedtracker says:

    Capella says:
    8 March, 2017 at 8:28 pm
    Chancellor Hammond today says that Scotland will get £350 million in the Budget. Presumably he means via Barnett consequentials though he doesn’t say so. The Tories then fall about laughing.

    Can anyone explain why this is so funny?

    Buckingham Palace gets over £400 million, for vital upgrades, wifi, helipads, golden shitters etc.

    Bwahahaha!

  76. Famous15 says:

    Today’s most important report was labelled “Shitegate”

    That just about covers all of it!

    Hammond has an organ which he played to Tory perfection.

    Yes “Shitegate” covers it all including Iain Gray’s fantasies.

  77. Gullane No4 says:

    Well Mr Harvie has lost my 2nd vote for that silly showboat.
    Silly Boy

  78. heedtracker says:

    Catastrofuck Boy getting rewarded handsomely and Graun gimps agent provocateuring it, like they do, despite being hard core tory airse lickers really. Rowena routinely sticks the Graun boot into Scottish democracy but UKOK hackdom is a crazy trade.

    Rowena Mason Deputy political editor
    Wednesday 8 March 2017 18.34 GMT

    George Osborne

    George Osborne to be paid £650,000 for working one day a week
    Former chancellor declares six-figure salary for job with US fund manager BlackRock, for whom he will work 48 days a year

  79. yesindyref2 says:

    @Robert J. Sutherland
    Ah, tickling it with a dandelion might do the job.

  80. louis.b.argyll says:

    I am almost as motivated by green issues as I am for the cause of Scottish Independence..

    HOWEVER- I would run a mile before ‘focussing’ on the Scottish Greens, a bunch of wannabe Lib Dems.

    AND, if they keep this up, AFTER INDEPENDENCE, I’LL ‘MOVE’ THAT ANY NEW GRASSROOTS GREEN MOVEMENT SHOULD ‘BAN’ ANY FORMER S.GREEN MSPS FROM STANDING FOR OFFICE.

    .how does that sound? Ya bunch of Cowards.

  81. Robert Peffers says:

    @Bob Mack says: 8 March, 2017 at 8:36 pm:

    “They were laughing because one of the Tories shouted out “And you are getting our money”. Others joined in and hence the hilarity.”

    Which only serves to prove that it is, “NOT”, their money.

    It never seems to enter their closed and tiny minds that the money that comes to Scotland is fact United Kingdom money collected from the entire united Kingdom and, as there is no Parliament of England, then England has no money.

    In the vast majority of years the Scottish Per Capita GDP, (Gross Domestic Product), is higher than that of both England, as a country, and the United Kingdom as a whole.

    That means, the average Scottish person is contributing more to the United Kingdom Treasury than any other United Kingdom Tax payer from N.I. Wales or England.

    We Scots are, on average, directly subsidising every other part of the United Kingdom.

  82. Ken500 says:

    £350Million over three years. Scotland (5.2Million)

    £200Milion -Wales (pop 1.5million)

    Scotland has lost £24Billion over 6 years. Tory high tax on the Oil sector (70%+) when the price had fallen 75%. Ruining the industry. Now the Tories are ruining the renewable industry. They are spending £Billions borrowed on Hinkley Nuclear power.

  83. heedtracker says:

    louis.b.argyll says:
    8 March, 2017 at 10:30 pm
    I am almost as motivated by green issues as I am for the cause of Scottish Independence..

    They’re going after shy tories. You know the type, National Trust member stickers on £85k BMW 4X4’s, really worried about the planet and other things, ozone, save the tigers.

  84. Robert Peffers says:

    @Roboscot says: 8 March, 2017 at 8:37 pm:

    “The Greens are a separate party in opposition. They are entitled to oppose.”

    Indeed so, Roboscot. However, the supporters of independence, who favour the SNP, are also among the voters of Scotland. Thus they are well entitled to vote against the Greens if the Greens oppose the wishes of the Indey voters of Scotland.

    What, so they say, goes around, also comes around.

  85. yesindyref2 says:

    @Heed
    One of the reasons for the Standard Life (66% shareholding) / Aberdeen Assets (33%) merger, was to take on Blackrock, so yet again Osborne is working against Scotland’s interests.

  86. jfngw says:

    BBC News mentions extra cash for Scotland, Wales and NI and puts up figures on caption, but fails to explain or put extra spent in England on the caption. The fact that this is because England is presumably receiving around £3.5bn extra is not mentioned. The impression this is free gratis with spending in England not receiving anything.

    Never trust the BBC for facts.

  87. yesindyref2 says:

    @Heed
    On the other hand, this being Osborne, perhaps he’s a sleeper for SL/AAM 😈

  88. Conan the Librarian says:

    The BBC manages to get all the Scottish MPs that count in their interviews about the budget.

    Misreporting Scotland strikes again.

  89. Legerwood says:

    It is perhaps worthwhile remembering that the Curriculum for Excellence which is currently the system in our schools was adopted as the official education system for Scottish schools by the Labour/ LibDem Coalition in 2004 and the implementation process started by them.

    So today they seem, in a way, to have voted against their own policy.

  90. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    8 March, 2017 at 10:38 pm
    @Heed
    On the other hand, this being Osborne, perhaps he’s a sleeper for SL/AAM ?

    Graun says,

    “He was criticised for taking the job earlier this year, because BlackRock may have benefited from reforms to pension rules made while he was chancellor.”

    So he’s merely taking his just reward. They own the beeb so this kind of shyst is what its all about, quietly done, tasty very tasty.

    Long way from OO marches through Glasgow, of a Saturday afternoon eh?

  91. yesindyref2 says:

    @Heed
    It also gets dangerously close to this

    But old caches of the site reveal that, while shadow ministers, George Osborne, Michael Gove, Chris Grayling and William Hague were all on its advisory council alongside Fox, its UK chairman. All four stood down as awkward questions over its political activities, which contravened charity laws, resulted in the organisation being wound up.

    http://archive.is/74nS5

  92. K1 says:

    Ah know Capella…I said as much yesterday having read Jame’s article…just completely scunnered by this from the Greens, what is it they think they’re ‘proving’ here? Siding with the Tories especially on the back of a red Tory pile of negative excrement does not endear me to place the Greens on ma ballot at all now. Just sick of the petty politicking, that they went along with such an absurd (bowel) motion knowing it ‘is’ politicking merely emphasises their amateurish approach.

    Furthermore what if they do end up in coalition councils? Can we really count on these ‘tacticians’ to ensure smooth policy application and have the backs of those they are their to serve, or will we get more of the same as they shore up on their ‘preferred’ demograph just to ensure they are seen to be ‘big boy’ ‘independent’ from SNP?

    Nah, they can fuck off.

  93. Smallaxe says:

    Robert Peffers:

    Please, forgive my late appreciation of the very generously detailed reply to my post @ 1:10pm on the “Something deep in the gut” thread, I am pleased to see that your views on the matter are very similar to the ones that are held by myself.

    Thank you, sir, for taking the time out of what is in my opinion, a most industrious and interesting use of your valuable time.May I say, sir that your obvious zeal and attention to detail would put many, “Neil Olivers”, to use but one example, to shame.

    Again, sir, I thank you and apologise for my lateness in furnishing this reply to your kindly given and much-appreciated opinion.

    Peace Always

  94. heedtracker says:

    yesindyref2 says:
    8 March, 2017 at 10:50 pm
    @Heed
    It also gets dangerously close to this

    Great journalism there from Liam Fox and Adam Werritty at The Observer.

    Bomber Blair, Osborne, Cammers, Lord Flipper, Fox types all just want to get rich though, really really rich. In Scotland, tories, SLab, BBC Scotland are here only to protect it all and keep everyone in the dark. Its the British way and other trite meaningless stuff, that all comes down to Jackie Bird and her producers daily cranking out their SNP bad, YES even badder, plotting.

  95. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Rock.

    I see my post motivated you to type. However, you didn’t actually answer any of the direct questions I asked you.

    Care to try again, without digressing on to your own agenda?

  96. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Tomorrow’s “National” front page:

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C6bNKqEXEAALfmS.jpg

  97. stu mac says:

    It strikes me the Swinney was maybe being quite clever when he put forward his amendment. That is maybe he was sure they would vote it down without giving it a moment’s thought and not realise it would show them up has denigrating the efforts of schools and teachers. Just a thought.

  98. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Tomorrow’s “National” twitter pages:

    https://twitter.com/ScotNational

  99. Robert Peffers says:

    @Still Positive says: 8 March, 2017 at 10:17 pm:

    ” … One thing I can tell you that when cuts come to school budgets, teachers blame the local authority and not the SG.
    Sorry for the length.”

    No need to apologise for the length of telling the truth, Still Positive.

    I am more than well aware that many people do not realise the responsibility for the employment of staff, building and upkeep of the schools, the provision of equipment and the maintaining of standards are those of the local council.

    I am also well aware that many local councils divert money specifically given for education to other uses. What I just do not understand is why the FM does not make that very, very clear when under attack during FM’s Question time.

  100. dakk says:

    fngw says:
    8 March, 2017 at 10:38 pm
    ‘BBC News mentions extra cash for Scotland, Wales and NI and puts up figures on caption, but fails to explain or put extra spent in England on the caption. The fact that this is because England is presumably receiving around £3.5bn extra is not mentioned. The impression this is free gratis with spending in England not receiving anything’

    Strayed onto that as well,but couldn’t help feeling even tired old fart and fake Welsh britnat Shuggie Jones gave the game away with his shamed guilty delivery.

    Get some new hungry blood in BBC,or England might have to do without Scotland’s resources to support it

  101. louis.b.argyll says:

    Aye, @heedtracker.

    The whole planet’s environmental and social governance, is in the hands of a class of people who are (initially) immune, to social and environmental DECAY.

    Those people are not elected, they are what sometimes referred to as the ‘establishment’, most are unaware that their position as ‘elevated people’ is unsustainable.

    There’s nothing for them, in changing the systems that are so obviously FAILING.

    Green Parties are a hundred years too late.

    It’s 4×4-types vs reason, and we’d all like a 4×4.

  102. Capella says:

    @ K1 – you said the Greens are amateurish and I agree. They don’t seem to do strategy. But we can’t afford that luxury. There’s such a rash of anti-Green rhetoric on this thread you’d think they were the enemy.
    Let’s keep the heid till after the May elections. After article 50 is triggered there’ll be a tsunami of rhetoric against Scotland leaving the UK. I’d like to see a referendum bill getting passed asap.

  103. heedtracker says:

    Great journalism there from Jamie Doward Observor
    Saturday 15 October 2011 21.30 BST

    Oops!

  104. Robert Peffers says:

    @Smallaxe says: 8 March, 2017 at 11:08 pm:

    ” … I am pleased to see that your views on the matter are very similar to the ones that are held by myself.”

    Let’s face it, Smallaxe. When it comes to history there is much to be said for sheer common sense. The main thing about history is that it is a record of what was ordinary life at the time it was recorded. Unfortunately much history was written sometimes hundreds of years after the events and by people far removed from the lives of the people involved in what the historians wrote about.

    The trouble with much of the recording of history was it was left to those who either had axes to grind or who were the scribes of their day and thus somewhat removed from everyday life of the common people.

    I’ll tell you a wee true story.

    I have for many years driven around in a wee camper van. One day I was out for a drive and just as I came to the Dollar Bends my wee dog cried to get out for a pee. I parked in the car park at the picnic area there and we had our lunch. Then we went for a walk along the cycle path that was once the old railway line.

    By chance we came upon a group of people and my wee dog, who I had trained as a befriender, made a great fuss befriending the group. I thus got to talking with them. It turned out they were having a break from an archaeological dig of parts of the old Roman Gask Road and Gask Ridge.

    I retuned there every day over several weeks and I learned a great deal of real history from the diggers. What impressed me more than anything else was that they bore no resemblance to such as the Neil Olivers of this World.

    These people were not so much the academic, right out of Uni, and no knowledge of the world outside the Ivory Tower of academia. These people knew life outside the protection of education and their down to earth theories made a lot more sense that much of what I had been reading for many long years.

    They would explain things from the point of view of those they were investigating. I now pay strict attention when beginning to read any history. For example, if the historian begins with something like, “When the Romans first came to England” …”. I read no further as the Romans pre-date England.

    In many cases it is not made clear that Roman Britain did not include many areas of Britain and you cannot visualise how life would be back then unless you can realise that fact.

  105. yesindyref2 says:

    @Capella
    Yes, but it’s still time for it to die down, with a bit of help.

    We do need the Greens, they can reach NO voters the SNP can’t, and others can’t either.

    It’ll pass once Indy Ref 2 is called, and we’re all YES together in our non-nuclear mutli-coloured subamrine, but I hope it doesn’t damage the council elections as I’d far prefer the SNP to run a no overall control council with the reluctant at times help of the Greens and Independents, perhaps even the LibDems if they see sense, rather than see it run by the Tories. *shudder*

    And there won’t be many councils the SNP can take overall control of, they’d need over 50% for that, and at this stage, more candidates even.

  106. Thepnr says:

    @Capella

    Would you agree though that the Greens have made a hash of this?

    I mean supporting a Labour motion saying that the Scottish Government are “failing teachers, parents and pupils” is ridiculous when that is untrue.

    I’m certainly not happy with their stance and will vote accordingly. A smack on the wrist, well Mr Harvie will be getting one from me as he seems to have asked for it.

  107. yesindyref2 says:

    The other thing to remember is that the Greens DID VOTE FOR THE SCOTGOV BUDGET, with a small amendment I totally approved of – freezing the 40% tax band threshold, in fact I think the SNP should have done that anyway rather than the inflation rise. And the Green’s have been taking dog’s abuse from all sides for that – I was checking out a couple of twitter feeds after the budget. Now they’re making themselves a bit of their own space again.

  108. yesindyref2 says:

    @Thepnr
    Yeah, but the Greens are targetting Labour voters thinking of switching to Tories, and even those who switched last May. I’d prefer they get them than the Tories!

  109. Capella says:

    @ Yesindyref2 – the Local elections will be crucial IMO because of the propaganda value for the Unionists. I think the Greens were naive in standing a candidate in Edinburgh Central thus allowing Ruth Davidson to get a constituency seat, by about 600 votes. But that’s now water under the bridge.
    Let’s not fall for the “divide and rule” tactics that Unionists, in fact Imperialists since Rome is being discussed!, love so much.

  110. K1 says:

    Expect some polling announcements regarding independence ref2, don’t know who for, as I get surveys through one of those type companies. Only the second time in over two years that I’ve ever received any ‘Scotland’ centred survey. Questions specifically: council elections coming up, will i be voting, who for, recall of indy1 and how voted, SE same question, both regional and list recall, EU same recall and vote, some questions regarding council tax and 40p rate and whether May should meet Nicola Sturgeon’s ‘demand’ for indyref2.

    I left a comment at the end regarding the use of the word ‘demand’:

    ‘Nicola Sturgeon doesn’t ‘demand’ in any way whatsoever. That is an extremely biased word to use in the question regarding the Section 30 order required, same as indyref1 to ensure merely that the referendum is a ‘legally binding’ agreement between both parliaments. Kindly refrain from this type of pejorative wording which is straight out the front pages of the Daily Express in a survey that should be completely unbiased in seeking to ascertain the views of those who live and work in Scotland regarding the constitutional arrangements within the UK.

    Thank you.’

  111. Thepnr says:

    @yesindyref2

    Patrick Harvie needs a good boot up the arse, he is an idiot if he thinks this kind of politicking will win him more votes.

    He and his party would have had the support of many Independence supporters in the coming local elections. I really now think he is naive. No I’m sorry but he’s an idiot to offend so many potential supporters.

    The fight for Independence is not a joke and people like Mr Harvie better see that sooner than later. Get on side or get out of the way.

  112. K1 says:

    I hear ye Capella…still ‘stewing’…hmm… 😉

  113. Capella says:

    @Thepnr- Yes! I think they are quite naive politically. Maybe even some home-schoolers in the party who would want education devolved to school catchment level.
    But the vote today was SLab posturing, utterly predictable and essentially meaningless. The Greens could have abstained and in fact, I haven’t seen a record of the voting so don’t know why the numbers were lower than a full house.

  114. K1 says:

    Thinking on it…we ‘do’ have to be tactical as you say Capella so I suppose I could hold ma nose…then when we’re independent…get them tae…

    Ma instincts say tae he’ll wi them…but yer right about divide and conquer! Hmmm…

  115. Capella says:

    @K1 – I think we should invite them to the Independence Day celebrations 🙂

  116. Dr Jim says:

    If you really want to be relevant you pick an issue and you fight for that issue and make it yours by seeking agreement with others and getting it passed
    What you don’t do is pick somebody else’s issue especially a so called ally proceed to rubbish it and vote against your so called ally just before the council elections in an attempt to make them look bad in the hope of weakening your so called ally’s support so that you can go after that support in the slimy cynical way that Chairman Harvie just did

    But even possibly more importantly this was a public attempt to show incompetence by the Scottish government on an issue where they’re in fact not,
    Imperfection isn’t failure it’s we haven’t got it quite right yet and it could lead to not gaining more seats for his own party plus not gaining seats for the SNP and the odd floating Labour types who might have switched to SNP or even Green staying with Labour

    Remember Theresa Mays words about the council elections, make it a referendum on the SNP she said
    Will it not look like Patrick kinda agrees with her

    To some folk!

  117. K1 says:

    Capella, only if the accompanying music is..Send in the Clowns 😉

  118. Iain More says:

    The Greens proving once again they are nothing but Tories in fuckin drag!

    They certainly wont be getting a transferable vote from me come the Cooncil Elections!

  119. Smallaxe says:

    Capella:

    Have you looked back @ “Something deep in the gut” recently?
    🙂

    Peace Always my Friend

  120. Mary Miles says:

    Failure of education systems must be worldwide as the same is being said of the Australian schools. Perhaps it’s the parents who should look to helping their children with an interest in learning, reading etc. Why this emphasise on the Scottish education system – it must be equally true for the whole of the U.K. To try and put any blame on the SNP is riddiculous!

  121. yesindyref2 says:

    OT
    So S******* in Union are having a twitter competition and the prizes for the best tweets to them are:

    4th prize (5.3 million) – free lifetime membership. Won’t be long now

    3rd prize (365) – Dinner with Graeme Pearson cost £25,000 each

    2nd prize (5) – A history lecture by Jill Stephenson in phone box

    1st prize (1) – You are blocked

  122. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    K1,

    I didn’t invent it, just picked it up from somewhere (from NI experience), but it’s worth repeating again and again until the message gets through to everyone – the key slogan is

    vote.till.you.boak

    That is, keep on making choices through your preferences, including people you’re not too happy with, until you get to the point where you would feel really awful continuing. That way you ever-so-slightly tilt the chances of keeping the totally repugnant from crossing the line. All those wee tilts though can accumulate up to a body swerve.

    Choosing starts off being easy, but gets harder as you go down. You just have to keep a clear head and the big picture in mind.

    However with STV it operates both ways. All parties (if they’re smart) have also to be willing to reach out, not merely rely on their own supporter base but also assiduously woo preferences from voters whose preferences are different. In a ward, you can maybe get one councillor over the line with first preferences, but you may well need the help of others to get more home.

    It applies to every party, but the Greens in particular probably need a lot of later prefs from a wide range of voters. Still, they could do a lot worse than follow their own stated intention and behave constructively. Shouldn’t be too hard for them either, but arguably on Wednesday they lost sight of that somewhat.

    There’s time yet to mend, though. It may still be competitive party politics, but it’s not entirely as we know it. There’s way more at stake this time.

  123. Still Positive says:

    Robert J Sutherland @ 1.40

    Agree to a point. Think I will take the Scot goes Pop route until he changes it. Rather see a Green than a Tory or a Labour. Although we are bound to get some of the latter unless the Tory campaign makes it all about the union.

  124. mr thms says:

    Sorry to go off topic..

    It is regarding oil and gas..

    Production costs are lower now than 2014, there are fewer jobs now than 2014, there are more tax breaks now than 2014..

    And in a year’s time there will be 500,000 barrels of oil equivalent per day MORE than in 2014.

    An increase of 25%.

    http://oilandgasuk.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Business-Outlook-2017-Facts-and-Figures.pdf

    “The strong production performance is forecast to continue through 2017 and 2018. A further upturn of between 3 and 6 per cent can be expected this year, with production then reaching a peak in 2018 at between 1.8 and 1.9 million boepd*. The upper forecast for 2018 represents growth of more than 25 per cent on 2014 output (1.5 million boepd), following record levels of investment between 2012 and 2014 and impressive efficiency improvements across the UKCS.

    Several major developments are planned to come on-stream, including Schiehallion, Clair Ridge, Kraken, Western Isles, Catcher and Mariner. While recent start-ups, including Cygnus, Laggan-Tormore, Solan and Golden Eagle are ramping up to peak production. These ten developments alone are anticipated to contribute up to 600,000 boepd in 2018, accounting for just under one third of production and demonstrating the importance of continued new investment.”

    If production increases to 1.8 to 1,9 boepd, that would put Scotland above 13th ranked Norway.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_oil_production

  125. Skintybroko says:

    IMHO Education in Scotland will suffer for at least a generation and even longer if the SNP are ousted from Government.

    Labour were in power for decades in Scotland and inveigled themselves into every aspect of public life, they are still there deliberately undermining the system.

    There are many education “professionals” who don’t give a damn about the pupils and would rather see failure in the School/College so they can point the finger at the SG.

    I believe John Swiney is also being poorly advised, the teachers unions lauded the removal of unit testing, all that means is that if the pupil isn’t bright enough to pass the final exam they will leave with nothing, no unit test pass etc., the change also means that from the next academic year pupils needing to do multiple projects in some subjects rather than one which will increase the pupils stress levels and gives the teachers that care a lot more work.

    The Unionist mantra is to heap scorn and ridicule on the SG for the state of the education system but as others have noted it is run by the Local Authorities where the unionist machine is still endemic.

  126. Nana says:

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/theresa-may-great-repeal-bill-brexit-article-50-eu-law-2017-

    http://uk.businessinsider.com/lord-michael-heseltine-savages-johnson-davis-fox-brexit-fightback-starts-here-2017-3

    US still uses chemicals that are forbidden in Europe
    McKay Jenkins, author of “ContamiNation” and “Food Fight,” explains the disturbing truth that certain products in the US contain chemicals that Europe banned due to health concerns.

    Watch here
    https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/839692231736881152

    https://theintercept.com/2017/03/08/the-dutch-trump-is-even-more-toxic-than-the-real-thing/

  127. Smallaxe says:

    Nana: Good Morning,

    A lovely sunny morning here today, links for breakfast gooody yum!
    Kettle’s on.
    🙂
    Peace Always

  128. Hamish100 says:

    Hi Greens

    Council election coming up. I will vote SNP 1 & 2. The nice green candidate should put aside more time for their allotment.

    You side with the right wing Tories you get punished

  129. Nana says:

    Good morning Smallaxe. Not too bad here, but no doubt the rain is not far off. Best take a brolly just in case.

    Couple more links

    https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/10483/public-transport-revolution-scot-gov-council-bus-control-ministers-prepare-rail-bid

    Salmond to WASPI “Keep going and win!”
    Alex Salmond MP speaking to WASPI campaigners outside the House of Commons on Wednesday 8 March 2017.

    https://twitter.com/AlexSalmond/status/839498540829327360

  130. Arabs for Independence says:

    Thanks for links Nana

    Currently stranded at Guernsey airport for last two days (fog and no flights in/out). However, thanks to you and your links I can have a good read and catch up.

    Many thanks Nana (and others)

  131. Smallaxe says:

    Nana:

    I very nearly cheered M.Heseltine when he said that he expected someone to know what they were doing.
    🙂
    Sending some sunshine your way.

    Peace Always

  132. Ghillie says:

    John Swinney’s ammendment was gracious and would have been uplifting to our pupils and our teachers.

    All of Hollyrood, should have had the decency to vote in favour of credit where credit is due.

    But that’s where the ‘opposition’ of all hues fail the very people they are supposed to represent.

    Shame on the 63.

    Could do better.

  133. Nana says:

    @Arabs for Independence

    Oh dear that must be so boring. Have a couple more links to pass the time.

    I’m not entirely sure she did say this, although I would not blame her if she did..lol

    “You talk shite, hen.”
    Scotland’s Mhairi Black (SNP) in the House of Commons (1min, 12secs).

    https://twitter.com/BarryAnderson_/status/839486157431926784

    http://www.businessforscotland.com/scottish-business-buzz-08-03-17/

  134. Macart says:

    Yesterday’s debate and vote wasn’t about education standards. It was about inflicting a defeat on the Scottish Governement for the unionist benches and about gesture distance for the Greens.

    The unionist benches aren’t about holding to account. They aren’t about consensus and improvement by constructive criticism. Neither are they about even old fashioned adversarial party politics. They vote as a block for one reason only.

    A mutual hatred of the Scottish government and an ideological stance on the nature of Holyrood and the Scottish population. Pretty much end of.

    Mr Harvie is trying to build a party worthy of serious consideration and serious politics. They’re young and new to this much influence. Their catastrophic timing, inexperience and use of the gesture card sucked the big one yesterday. He’ll live and learn. He’ll need to if he wishes to continue any form of significant presence in chamber. He really needs to brush up the times when to make a stand or a point on party issues and when he’s being set up by others to damage a far, far bigger issue.

    S’up to him, but with A50 merely weeks away and May just round the corner, I’d have thought now was not the time for gesture politics. Mr Harvie better believe that Ruth Harrison, Kez and thingy haven’t forgotten what they’re about.

  135. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Another great selection Nana and the sun is splitting the trees down here on the south west coast. 🙂

    There’s a link upthread to Mr Hosie giving it chapter and verse to Mr Hammond on parly tv. Well worth watching from 14.11.

    He’s not wrong. THIS is what is coming.

    http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/8a000060-1bde-4491-bffe-4359e85832ea

  136. Ghillie says:

    On a brighter and more hopeful note:

    The Greens that I know ARE committed wholeheartedly to Scottish Independence = )

    And no matter how daft some of their MSPs’ decisions in Holyrood are, and the sadness I feel that Alison Johnson chose to try to stand against Ruth Davidson in Edinburgh Central, I, for one, am not going to allow the BUM to shake my faith in our allies on the issue of Independence.

    Keep positive = )

  137. Janet says:

    Never off topic: vote SNP, once, twice, always.

  138. Robert Peffers @ 7.58.
    Thank you for patiently describing the accountability for and governance of Education in Scotland.It was the Cooncil wot done it, not John Swinney.
    I ask, how much is the Education Director for GCC taking home as a wage?

    Yet it is all the BAD SNP’s fault, according to the Unionists.
    Not one newspaper, not one broadcasting outlet, has laid the blame for any Educational shortcomings at the door of the LA’s and the obscenely paid LA Education Directors.
    I wonder why?
    It is vital that we wrest control of LA’s from this ancient bunch of Unionist wasters once and for all.
    Has Frank McAveety sent a cleansing van to Govanhill to pick up all those mattresses and couches littering the pavements of the FM’s constituency yet?
    It was all her fault you know, according to the BBC and the Dead Tree Scrolls.Govanhill is a litter dump and it’s the BAD SNP’s fault.
    Poisonous little scrotes, the lot of them.

  139. Nana says:

    @Macart

    I had the link ready to post, saw Tam had already done so.

    Hard times are coming but not for the rich. I see the former clown chancellor is being paid £650,000 for one days work. If I was a business leader, he would be the last person I would want advising me.

  140. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Pretty much.

    I’m also sure that the self employed and small business owner won’t miss that point either today.

  141. Capella says:

    @ Smallaxe – yes thank you – and I added a short follow up! 🙂

    I hear Nicola will be on TV tonight. Speculation on R Scotland that autumn 2018 will be the time for NewIndyRef.

  142. John Edgar says:

    Robertson claimed Scotland was during Indyref1 a “minor entity entity in North Britain”.
    Labour is now in that position along with Tories and LibDems!
    Labour and LibDems are now minor entities in South Britain as well.
    Any hope of stronger together or better together or any hope of federalism from the goon-yoons is a chimera now.
    Soon, Westminster will be a minor entity world wide post Brexit our beyond the pale in world terms. Still, it will have the Queen!

  143. Nana says:

    @Capella

    Interview with Nicola, there’s a video so no point archiving.

    Sturgeon: Autumn 2018 ‘common sense’ for indyref2

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-39213767

  144. Les Wilson says:

    About the Greens,a poor move made by Harvie voting with the Unionists yesterday, he would have been much better to have backed the SNP.
    Doing so would have at least a given reason
    for some trust between the two parties, not so much now
    . Harvie was very short sighted, and must fail to see the big picture, for his own party if nothing else.

    Many are here are rightly castigating them, and I am among those but they have brought to mind for usto question their motives re Indy2 as well.

    If they dared to go against their own policy in regards to Indy,
    they will be toast in future elections in Scotland.
    Harvie must know that, so being an opportunist, he will push against the SNP, but will support Indy2 or be relegated to joining the same dustbin as Slab.

    People who lent them their votes will turn their back on them next time around,and deservedly so, should they pull that one.

  145. gus1940 says:

    Re Nicola’s interview with Laura Kuennsberg.

    This interview has been trailed in all BBC Breakfast bulletins both the Salford and PQ ones all morning with it being mentioned that the interview will be broadcast tonight.

    However, thee is a strange reluctance to tell us in what program on what channel at what time it will be featured.

    Having a look at tonight’s schedules there is a program on BBC2 at 11.15 in which Laura K. will be investigating the impact of Brexit – I presume that this where we shall see the interview with Nicola but why are they so reluctant to tell us.

  146. Golfnut says:

    @ Macart,

    Mr Harvie could have made a real impact at the debate by putting the blame firmly at the door of those actually responsible for delivering the service, the councils. Even better if he had highlighted the worst offenders. The truth should offend no one.

  147. Golfnut says:

    @ John Edgar,

    That would be the ‘ small non entity ‘ holding the union’s breeks up.

    Can’t wait to find out just how much revenue Westminster is siphoning out of Scotland’s economy.

  148. sydthesnake says:

    gus1940
    Program is on @ 21-00 in England & Wales, but not on until 23-15 in Scotland, is that NOT strange, or am I just being paranoid?

    Syd

  149. Macart says:

    @Golfnut

    Yes, he could have and I believe he should have. Though a lesser victory in terms of visibility it would certainly have earned him valuable kudos amongst the voting public and brownie points in future debates with the SG in chamber. The guaranteed splash though, was simply to vote against the Scottish Government.

    A poor choice IMV. It also gives unionist elements a lift in terms of dividing opinion on the internet. They’ll use what they can get to drive a wedge in YES movement support and Mr Harvie just handed them a crowbar.

    Right now we cannot afford this. What’s here and now is bad. What’s coming is too awful to contemplate for near everyone and the YES movement simply cannot afford ANY division in the face of that. We certainly can’t keep handing the establishment parties and their media gifts.

    Its just that important.

  150. Nana says:

    Chunky Mark on that budget

    The context of yesterday’s budget “Workers pay more tax than Corporations” that’s why TMay Hammond were laughing

    https://twitter.com/chunkymark/status/839749370727788544

  151. gus1940 says:

    One of the reasons why Sottish Labour’s hatred of The SNP is so virulent is their loss of control of the power of patronage.

    During their decades of near absolute control of Scottish Politics The Labour Party had control of appointments to assorted Quangos and other organisations.

    God only knows just how many Labour policians, ex politicians , apparatchiks and assorted hangers on were slotted into lucrative sinecures.

    However, since The SNP came into power in 2007 this power of patronage has been taken from them with the result that as people died they were not replaced by the Labour faithful, contacts were not renewed and new appointments were not made.

    Having had access to these jobs for the boys for so long this loss must really have a significant influence on Labour’s hatred of The SNP.

  152. David says:

    Had a few clashes with kids teachers in both primary and secondary education. With quite a few being administrators rather than educators, and they’re pretty poor at that. At school meetings they have spent more time attacking the Scot Gov than what their pupils have achieved so I’m not surprised by this.

    As for the Greens, they’re an opposition party and as such I hope they’ll understand when they, like the others will not be getting my vote.

  153. Capella says:

    Thanks Nana – queen of the links!

  154. Dan Huil says:

    Devolution will kill nationalism stone dead. Still funny after all these years.

  155. ross says:

    Angus MacLeod – not even comparable to the journalistic dross peppered out now.

  156. heedtracker says:

    And rancid The Graun puts the boot in again, Severin Carrell style, apparently we’re doomed, without England, says Graun,

    “Her opponents have repeatedly accused Sturgeon of bluffing because Scotland’s finances have been hit very hard by the collapse in North Sea oil prices, and Scottish exports to the EU are plateauing, worth only a quarter of its sales within the rest of the UK.

    There is no answer yet to the challenging question of which currency an independent Scotland would use, such as a new one or adopting sterling, or indeed be expected to adopt the euro.”

    Be so nice to say bye bye to UK hackdom gimps alone, once and for all:D

  157. Golfnut says:

    @ Macart

    Opportunism or just plain stupidity, juries out on this.

  158. Craig P says:

    George Robertson’s only purpose today is to be trolled by bored cybernats. Quite a come down for the former head of NATO.

  159. geeo says:

    Ipsos Mori poll.

    https://stv.tv/news/politics/1382623-stv-poll-half-of-scots-would-vote-for-independence/

    What was that Ruthie and Mundell saying again ?

    48% want FULL EU membership and A FURTHER 27% favour the ‘Norway option’

  160. Brian Powell says:

    The Greens achieved nothing by voting with the Tories and their Labour sidekicks. There was no great point of principle being argued. Their was no alternative being offered.

    They just took another step to LibDem status.

  161. Nana says:

    @geeo Snap!

  162. call me dave says:

    Ian Murray got a wee comment in the Daily Wrecker all about how the Budget will take about £2bn away from Scotland over the course of this parliment in WM…but adds

    That the SNP must act to stop administrating tory austerity and use their powers. If not labour will. 🙂

    No comment from Ruthie.

    Note: It was a (left behind) wrecker in the cafe.

  163. Brian Powell says:

    Odd on those polls. People who want to be members of the EU know that is not compatible with being part of the UK, yet they hesitate on Independence.

  164. ronnie anderson says:

    https://livestream.com/IndependenceLive/JoycePurcell/videos/151271273 For those of you who haven’t seen it.

  165. Ken500 says:

    Tories taxes ruined the NS sector. Scotland lost £24Billion over six years. The Tories were taxing the Oil sector up to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. It is now 40%, since Jan 2016.

    Scotland raises £54Billion in taxes. The UK raises £533Billion 2015-16. Take £54Billion from £533Billion = £479Billion. Divide £479Billion by 11 (11/12 pop) = £46.5Billion. Scotland raises £8Billion more (pro rata).

    Scotland could spend less. £1Billion in Trident. £1Billion minimum pricing. Scotland has lost £4Billion Oil revenues (Tory high taxes when the price had fallen). £3Billion? in tax evasion. Multinationals evade taxes. £3.5Billion in loan repayments on money Scotland doesn’t borrow or spend. = £12.5 Billion. Scotland could borrow £7Billion to invest in the economy and get more ECB investment and EU renewable Grants etc. = £20Billion+ Nearly Norwegian levels. I.e. £84Billion.

    The rest of the UK borrows and spends £100Billion more for Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow and Trident etc. All a total waste of money with more credible alternatives. The Budget is just an over rated estimate. The UK Treasury never raises the estimated revenues and borrows more than it estimates. Westminster Unionists can’t count or read a balance sheet.

    The Tories want out of the EU to evade tax. Osbourne is getting £1/2Million a year from a Hedge fund, helped by Tory tax breaks, and remuneration from right wing US organisations. The Tories are sanctioning and starving vulnerable people. There have been higher than expected elderly deaths in the rest of the UK because of cuts to social funding.

  166. Brian Powell says:

    LOLZ, Ian Murray’s ‘plan’ must be to raise taxes on Scots to pay for mitigating Tory Westminster tax.

    He has conveniently forgotten that Labour is a low third in Scotland and a distant second in England.

    As Mhairie succinctly put it, ‘You talk shite’.

  167. Graham says:

    You know what? When the hell are Labour going to get over having their half-century-long Scottish fiefdom shattered, through their own arrogance, and get with helping Scotland do something good? They’re like somebody dumped years ago by an ex partner who still hates them and would go out of their way to talk shit about them, or do stuff to hurt them if they can. They’re sad, selfish, stupid, sordid, desperate, and disgusting. So your gravy train got derailed, your party is disappearing and you can’t just stick your snout in the public trough anymore. GET OVER IT. Help Scotland or piss off to England to get your thirty pieces of silver like Joke McConman did. Period. Sick of you idiots.

  168. BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Micheal Fallon told Nicola Sturgeon this morning to forget IndyRef2 and get on with sorting out the failing Scottish NHS.

    And then this comes out about NHS Ebgland:

    “NHS in England records worst A&E waiting results on record”

    http://news.sky.com/story/nhs-in-england-failing-to-hit-targets-on-ae-cancer-and-trolley-waits-10760984

  169. galamcennalath says:

    BBC Scotland Tells Lies says:

    Micheal Fallon told Nicola Sturgeon this morning to forget IndyRef2 and get on with sorting out the failing Scottish NHS.

    Nicola should reply saying they should forget this Brexit nonsense and get on with sorting out NHS England!

    Of course we all know what it’s actually about – the absolute last thing the Tories want right now is a ‘second front’ from Scotland to open up against their constitutional chaos.

    Their worst nightmare would be Scotland and the EU coming at them with a united front!

  170. galamcennalath says:

    @me

    “Scotland and the EU coming at them with a united front!”

    Thinking further on that. My dream scenario would be the EU proposing WM accept the SG solution of Scotland (plus NI and Gibraltar) staying in the single market THEN May rejecting that and insisting on a UK wide deal outside the single market. 🙂

  171. schrodingers cat says:

    gala

    I believe we will get official clarification from the EU in a few weeks

    1. no separate deal for a NI or Scotland while they are part of the UK
    2. an indy scotland or NI will be fast tracked into the EU

    far bigger commitment to scotland from the EU than in indyref1

  172. joannie says:

    @schrodingers cat – there will be no such thing as an indy NI. Ever. If NI leaves the UK it will be joining the rest of Ireland and will therefore be going straight back into the EU. There’s no rush for NI they can wait a few years, Scotland’s case is more urgent I think. If you can get out of the UK before Article 50 runs out you can stay in the EU without having to reapply.

    Some Scottish Labour guy on BBC2 just now upbraiding the SNP for wanting independence. Is it just me or are these people increasingly looking like out of touch dinosaurs?

  173. Capella says:

    Besides the obvious gerrymandering of the Scottish Parliament in the choice of voting system, JaceF has done some interesting research on voting stats in Scotland in recent years. Huge increase in proxy votes for example. See comment on the Levelling thread.

    http://wingsoverscotland.com/levelling-the-field/#comment-2239426

  174. Skip_NC says:

    The title of Iain Gray’s motion is given in the first link. Would any grammarians care to comment on it?

  175. Dr Jim says:

    We never had any feckin oil: It was the feckin UKs which means feckin England

    If Scotland was and is so dependent on oil when the oil price crashed Scotlands GDP fell by only 1% while in England total meltdown has occurred so who’s dependent on what

    David Davis moments ago confirming that Agg and Fish powers repatriated from Brussels will stay with Westminster until Westminster decides what Westminster will do in all of the UKs best interests
    Nuff said about that then!

    Someone earlier pointed out the Nicola Sturgeon twitter abuse account
    I encourage anyone to take a wee look at this, you won’t need to read much to get the point, I’ve been banging on about this for a long time
    We all have a go at the politicians but the depth of this is frightful and also most of it does not originate in Scotland, even though we have our share of Nutters we don’t fortunately have many who sink to this level

    The FM is of an age where she could be my daughter and I’m sure many others on Wings will be the same, no matter what anyone does for a living they shouldn’t have to tolerate this, but she does and not for herself

    This bile is directed at us through her so thanks FM for putting up with this on my behalf

  176. Macart says:

    @Nana

    Saw the poll and James Kelly’s analysis. 50-50 and its game on.

  177. Dr Jim says:

    Northern Ireland will wait for a Scottish Independence win then they will follow with an attempt to reunify and the Brits won’t raise an argument against it because it will save England money having to subsidise it alone if Scotland has already left and the English taxpayers will be screaming by then when they realise Scotland was subsidising them and not the other way round

  178. Brian Powell says:

    Only the truest bluest rightwing Tory would support M Fallon in his ‘statement’. Oh sorry, I meant Scottish Labour.

  179. Marcia says:

    The mad Professor will be hyperventilating today.

    The poll is encouraging but it is only one poll. Let us see the trend of future polls. Women and the older age groups are still the key to success to the Yes side. An outreach to the present No inclined groups rather than talking to the Yes supporters that Yes Scotland did in the run of 2014 to allay their concerns would in my opinion be very worthwhile and result is a positive result.

  180. Referring back to Robert Peffer’s excellent post pointing out that it is the Local Authority Network which is accountable to Central Government for the efficient effective and economic governance of Education in Scotland, I asked myself how much are we paying the 32 Directors of Education, and in some cases like GCC an Assistant Director?
    I ploughed into the net looking for the answer, but because of the mystery and secrecy surrounding this sort of info, I gave up after being led down blind alley after blind alley for an hour or so. It’s almost as though they are trying to hide something from us.
    Does it really take an FOI to discover how much of my tax pounds are being paid to Local Government Civil Servants?
    Here’s a list from 2012/13.
    The Headings are:
    Remunerations in:-
    Salary. Expenses. Bonus. Loss of Office.(? )Other Payments. Employer Pensions Contributions. Remuneration excluding Pensions contributions.
    I pick a few at random.
    Council. Annual Remuneration ‘Package’. Annual Amount Paid towards Pensions.
    Angus £189,328 £18,528
    Dundee £119,436 £18,219
    E/Renfrew £118,584 £19,101
    Fife £133,463 £22,244
    Glasgow £152,243 £24,629
    Highland £124,431 £18,981
    Inverclyde £121,847 £19,693

    Strangely Aberdeen and Edinburgh do not appear to have Directors of Education according to this list.
    Although from 2013, I have checked. Glasgow’s Director of Education is still in post.
    Now these figures are from four years ago; the packages may have gone up since then.
    Nevertheless, it’s a hell of a lot of money to pay out to civil servants whom Kezia Dugdale, Willie Rennie, and Ruth Davidson don’t feel should be held accountable for the performance and outcomes in our schools.
    Indeed Dugdale shrieked at a recent FMQ that the EssEnnPee had cut 4000 teaching jobs. No they didn’t, Ms Dugdale. The highly paid, generously pensioned pen pushers listed above cut teaching posts.
    It was reported that LA’s had underspent by £450 million last year, and now hold £1.89 billion in reserves ‘down the back of the sofa’, as that spectacular political failure Murdo Fraser sneered.
    Yet it is all the SNP’s fault.
    Isn’t it about time heads rolled in LA Education Departments if our Education is in the SNP inspired dire straits that the yoons and MSM make it out to be?
    Can John Swinney sack a Director of Education> Naw, he cannae.
    If these figures are correct, The GCC Director of Education has had £98,516 added to their pension pot in the last 4 years, plus their own personal contribution from salary, which oddly, is not included in these figures.
    Nice work if you can get it.
    Are our Local Authority Public Servants caught in a mid-1950’s time warp?
    Do the administrators at the top have the fabled ‘job for life’?
    As I ploughed through various LA sites, I got the feeling that I was dealing with an ancient Town Hall Administration.
    It struck me that I had stepped back into time. Joe Lampton, Borough Treasure’s Department, Warley Yorkshire, ‘ Room At The Top’.
    Councillor Duxbury from ‘Billy Liar’.
    If Ruth wants a ‘root and branch’ scrutiny of anything, perhaps she could start with LA Administration and Governance.
    Next month, I hope some with more energy, contacts , and resources than I,can examine the Closed Shop that is Local Government in the run up to the May elections.
    For example, from this same 2012-2013 salaries and perks list:
    The Executive Director for Social Care Services appears to be on £486,303 per annum, yet we have bed blocking log jams.
    The HR Executive pockets £396, 889. Who shaves the barber?
    Oh, and those New Labour ‘contract out’ Arms Length Deals?
    The Manging Director of City Building struggles by on £371,185 per annum.
    The Managing Director of City Parking, which has never come in on budget and required extra funding from Me, via the Cooncil for the past nine years? That poor soul makes do on £185,534 per annum.
    How much does Nicola Sturgeon get to run the country?

    £144,687, to run the whole country.

    Eric Joyce and Steven Purcell held a live Q&A No2Yes Podcast last night.
    Purcell seemed unsure what his role might be in the impending Indyref Canmpaign.
    How abour a major Review and Reform of Local Government, Steven?
    I’m in the book.

  181. Jack Murphy says:

    Let’s have an overall Majority Government in the Scottish Parliament,a Grand Coalition of the right-wing Tory and Labour Parties.
    Bettertogether.
    Simple.
    It would be a tragedy for the people in Scotland,but heck they are dispensable in both Parties UKOK forever. 🙁

  182. schrodingers cat says:

    joannie

    agree about NI, should have said no special deal for NI while it remains in the uk

    we can announce indyref2 before the uk brexits, we may even get an agreement from the eu regarding an indy scotlands being fast tracked as the successor state via article 50(A49 requires agreement from all 27, A50 only a majority of the 27) but we cant hold indyref2 before WM brexits, they will have no choice but to leave early, i think it will be before xmas this year, Oct, nov, 2017

  183. t nicholson says:

    The only reason the greens are there is because of prof Curtice…,a second vote for SNP might not be a good idea…a second indy party….a balanced parliament!!!.. why do we have three voting systems in such a small country? why not a system where a party gets 40% of the vote gets 40% of the seats 22% votes would get 22% of the seats that way ALL votes would count.the stv system is a nightmare to understand never mind the convoluted process of counting.i will vote SNP 1st & 2nd in INK .i will put a 0 at all others.i might be paranoid but my confidence in the system and returning officers has taken a nosedive of late.

  184. Graf Midgehunter says:

    FMQ time

    12.00

    http://www.scottishparliament.tv/

  185. Marcia says:

    Sydthesnake said

    ‘Program is on @ 21-00 in England & Wales, but not on until 23-15 in Scotland, is that NOT strange, or am I just being paranoid?’

    There is an excellent documentary on at 9 pm on BBC2 Scotland, part of a series of archive film programmes on Scotland’s children growing up over the decades. It also puts the Union to shame as the poverty shown is not an advert for the Union.

  186. louis.b.argyll says:

    Weak, soundbite politics from the Greens and other allegedly progressive MSPs.

    So frustrated are the the Greens/Libdems they now curry favour with Davidson’s party/BBC.

    The environmental movement is supposed to see the bigger picture.

    Look out for an extended BBC ‘interview’ with ‘balance of power’ S.Greens.

    The UK system of funding has failed our educational needs.

    The SNP have allowed too many ‘educationalists’ to SABOTAGE CURRICULUM FOR EXCELLENCE.

    Aw poor teachers, being confused and under pressure. SNP BAD. EIS GREAT.

  187. joannie says:

    If there’s a referendum called, I hope the Irish government starts pushing the EU to make a statement saying Scotland will be fast tracked back into the EU if they want to be.

    I’ll be honest and admit that its partly for selfish reasons – a no vote in a second Scottish ref would be a major psychological blow for those who want a united Ireland, and conversely, Scotland going indy would give us a major boost.

  188. schrodingers cat says:

    too much havers on social media, from both sides, about an indy scotland staying in the eu. If nicola calls indyref2 in sept 18, treeza will simply finalise brexit in aug 18, all literature and arguments about staying in the eu will look pretty thread bare when we have already left. (my money is on treeza brexiting this autumn)

  189. louis.b.argyll says:

    It’s not war memorials we need, it’s peace.

    Sick Tory warmongers. Haven’t they failed us ALL? huh? Greens?

    Where’s the environmental blessing for war?

    Green by name, middle class apologists ny mature.

    I am furious..

  190. Macart says:

    Y’know, when you look at that poll info from a slightly different perspective it’s even more impressive than first glance.

    The sitting government have been in office ten years. They and the wider YES movement have been exposed to one of the most toxic and extended blanket media assaults in UK history.

    If this were simply a party politics issue. ANY party in the UK would bite your hand off up to the armpit for a near six point movement in their favour over a two and a half year period and in that climate.

    I’d also hazard that slow and steady should mean a firm and stable change of voting intent. Which again, is exceptional progress given the circumstances.

    It appears the dam isn’t cracked anymore, but fractured to the point of breaking.

    Keep that hand out folks. 🙂

  191. louis.b.argyll says:

    ..er,
    Should read..

    Green by name, middle class apologists by nature.

    ..but worth repeating.

  192. Luigi says:

    If the Greens want to showboat, then let them. There are elections coming soon, after all and they do have to remind people that they exist and that they are different (from the SNP). Some clear water between them and the SNP is a good thing – for one it completely destroys the “One Party State” nonsense favoured by some yoons.

    I would much rather the Greens put in a few harmless spoilers like this now and again, than vote against IndyRef 2 when it comes. IMO they wont let us down when it really counts.

  193. louis.b.argyll says:

    WHERE is this ‘peace and security’ that commentators say our ‘service-personnel have fought and died for’?

    The planet is becoming LESS-SUSTAINABLE.

    Greens and Socialists are PLACID,TIMID..when they should be on the rooftops waving the flag of peace.

    Are the S.Greens still anti war? I’m confused as to what they are, if their party leaders even deserve respect.

  194. galamcennalath says:

    joannie says:

    EU to make a statement

    I am optimistic the EU will take a stance which will benefit Scotland’s moves to independence. They have many reasons to do so ..

    – Scotland’s citizens have expressed a desire to stay in the EU
    – Scots are clearly more European in outlook
    – the EU keeps the best bit (oil, fish, farming, renewables) of the UK
    – dissolution of the UK would be retribution without EU losing out

    Similarly, to me the obvious solution to the ‘NI problem’ seems reunification. I would hope the EU offer incentives to encourage this to happen too.

    Gibraltar seems more difficult. I believe it is in the single market but not strictly in customs union. A fudge seems possible. Only the will of the Gibraltarians and appeasement of Spain matters.

  195. louis.b.argyll says:

    Macart says..11:47..
    ..it’s even more impressive than first glance.
    ..The sitting government have been in office ten years. They and the wider YES movement have been exposed to one of the most toxic and extended blanket media assaults in UK history.

    Indeed..

    WE SEE THE BIGGER PICTURE .. While UK POLITICIANS ‘FIDDLE’ WITH EACHOTHER.

    We are going nowhere, they will eventually by deselected. Simple.

    THE future is bright..if we can get there.

  196. schrodingers cat says:

    the eu will also wring out a clarification from treeza as to what the uks actual position is or will be, ie, out of the single market and customs union understoods, but to where exactly? WTO barriers or no barriers? the media and the bbc have avoided seeking clarification on this point but if there are to be trade negotiations with the eu (i doubt there will be) the uk needs to state what its position is

    once this has been clarified, i fully expect guy verhoftstadt to stand up and say, “fine, your choice, once you have left get back to us and we can discuss a potential uk/eu trade deal” brexit negotiations will be over
    I expect this process will be spun out until after the french and german elections, but once it happens, the uk will have no choice but to leave. they wont be able to start trade deals with the eu, or anyone else or that matter, until they do.

    scotland will be out of the eu before indyref2 happens. fact. The only eu membership that will be open to scotland will be full eu membership with the euro, or full eu membership without the euro, ie swedish type membership. neither of which nicola has a mandate from the people to agree to.

    efta/eea membership is the only option open to nicola that the 62% have given her a mandate to accept without holding another euref

  197. Lenny Hartley says:

    FMQ’s Swinney Awesome 🙂

  198. K.A.Mylchreest says:

    Sorry if I’m a bit behind reading these comments …

    Rainbow Parliament someone said. Look, the time for rainbows is when the sun comes out after the storm is over. That would be post-Indy. Right now we’re still stuck in the UK and getting pissed upon from a very great height by the Tories and fellow travelers. So please no more pish from the Greens, back the SNP and with a bit of luck you can have your rainbows when we get our unicorns, fair dues? 🙂

  199. Nana says:

    John Swinney is fantastic.

  200. nodrog says:

    My Scottish Hero today the AWESOME JOHN SWINNEY. My MSP and proud to call him so. He wiped the floor with the Unionist Trash. Those who would downgrade their own nation. The Terrible Twosome shown up for what they are.
    And after yesterday Patrick Harvie’s lot can take a hike!!

  201. Ken500 says:

    Scotland raised exactly the same without Oil revenues. £54Billion (with £4Billion Oil revenues) and £54Billion (without Oil revenues). Scotland lost £4Billion in Oil revenues, a year since 2010, because of Westminster taxation. Taxing the Oil sector up to 80% when the price had fallen 75%. £24Billion.

    Scotland could earn more from renewables and CCS than Oil, instead of being charged to put energy on the grid. The EU is funding a link between Norway for energy.

    Targets in NHS in England have been missed by 10%

  202. galamcennalath says:

    K.A.Mylchreest says:

    when we get our unicorns

    Yes, I’m totally for the reintroduction of wild free roaming unicorns. Fife east of the M90 would be an ideal reservation. 🙂

  203. Dan Huil says:

    Don’t know if Nana has already posted this one:

    https://twitter.com/britainelects

  204. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    schrodingers cat @ 12:07:

    scotland will be out of the eu before indyref2 happens. fact.

    You seem to have a wonderful crystal ball that no-one else has. (Have you tried making money on the horses? =grin=) It’s just as likely that the EU will keep the door open for us even in the event (by no means as likely as you assert) that Treeza makes a quick dash for the exit.

    The only eu membership that will be open to scotland will be full eu membership with the euro, or full eu membership without the euro, ie swedish type membership. neither of which nicola has a mandate from the people to agree to.

    The whole problem with the EURef was that no-one on either side of the debate had a clue what precisely they were being offered. On the pro-EU side, the best one could impute was that people just wanted things to stay just the same as they are now. Which may not be entirely possible as things develop, but can still be compatible with most people’s reasonable expectations. The euro thing is just a yoon scare story and not worth addressing. As for the rest, I just don’t see where you get any justification whatever for attempting to narrow “Nicola’s” mandate in the way you assert.

    efta/eea membership is the only option open to nicola that the 62% have given her a mandate to accept without holding another euref

    Well, this is just perverse. The mandate was to stay in the EU. Nothing less.

    You keep on pushing the EEA/EFTA route way beyond any reasonable justification, at least as things currently stand.

  205. I have never trusted the greens, and would never give them my second vote, it has always been SNP twice for me.

    Hopefully those who did give their second vote to the greens will come to their senses as they see how the greens are behaving at Holyrood.

  206. osakisushi says:

    If IR2 is indeed in 2018, hopefully it shall take place during the world cup when we’re all filled with patriotism and enjoying balanced media coverage of the UK’s presence at the event…

  207. Ken500 says:

    Olympic funding £12Billion+ Paid by the whole UK, including Scotland. If the Olympic funding paid by Scotland had been spent in the East End of Glasgow it would have helped the community there.

    Commonwealth Games funding £1/2Billion. Paid by Scotland.

  208. heedtracker says:

    Solid BBC Politics lunchtime smack down just there from lunchtime vote tory Ligger Neil show, May will not allow ref 2 for Scotland until after Brexit completed says the ligger, that could be years away says,John Pienaar , who says it means we’ll be out of the UK and the EU, if its YES.

    Tough tory BBC cookies these guys, no come back from any one YES whatsoever, shock:D

  209. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    heedtracker @ 12:44,

    It’s like the “you Scotch definitely don’t want a new indyref” trope. It’s a witches’ brew of wishful thinking and propaganda; instruct the plebs what their lords and masters desperately want them to think.

    Which tells you exactly what they are most afraid of. A fight on two fronts, with the EU27 on one side and the Scots on the other.

    Not hard to figure out what’s best for us to aim for, then, is it…?

  210. Lenny Hartley says:

    Re the Greens, a lot of people are cutting off their noses to spite their faces.
    It’s a complex issue but by all accounts if we give the Greens our third vote this reduces the chance of a unionist getting in.

    Re Oil Mcwhirter on BBC talking about the UK claiming no revenues last year, if Scotland was producing over a Million barrels per day and the UK is not receiving any tax revenues then maybe the UK Government are not very competent.

    Mcwhirter is an arse btw.

  211. Breeks says:

    Robert J. Sutherland says:
    9 March, 2017 at 12:29 pm
    schrodingers cat @ 12:07:
    scotland will be out of the eu before indyref2 happens. fact.
    You seem to have a wonderful crystal ball that no-one else has. (Have you tried making money on the horses? =grin=) It’s just as likely that the EU will keep the door open for us…

    Ha ha ha. Gents for what it’s worth, in my crystal ball I think you are both right.

    IF Scotland’s fate is decided by referendum, I think there is a credible likelihood we will be out of Europe by some slight of hand shortcut taken by Westminster to expedite the process. A dirty hard Brexit I believe that it’s called.
    However, I think there is a growing likelihood which no-one dares to mention, that Scotland’s legally recognised sovereignty might yet be the defining issue which empowers Scotland to make a sovereign decision to stay in Europe, and that the issue won’t be decided by referendum, but ratified by plebiscite after the event.

    If, or as everyone expects when, the post Article 50 Brexit negotiations with Europe fail or collapse, the issue of Scottish independence becomes critical, and critical in such a short timeframe that a conventional referendum simply isn’t a practicable option.

    Scotland then has a choice of Brexit anarchy, no effective government, as Holyrood resists being subjugated by a Westminster government which has lost control of the UK, in a flat spin caused by Brexit, or else Scotland can ride out the storm holding on to the stability, predictability and order which European Membership maintains. For me, that’s a no brainer. For Unionists? We might yet see…

  212. nodrog says:

    No matter what the revenues are or are not from North Sea Oil it is still responsible for 50% of the UK’s energy needs. Which is why they will not let us go without an almighty battle.

  213. schrodingers cat says:

    J.J. Patrick? @J_amesp

    I’ve had some information on Brexit from a source close to Number 10. They are well placed and reliable…
    “May has already made plans to walk away from negotiations, but not until after the French and German elections…”
    “…blaming EU intransigence for the break down”. Between the lines they want to avoid blaming Germany directly as it would be untrue.

    Dr Paul Monaghan MP?Verified account @_PaulMonaghan

    Word circulating at Westminster that Theresa May plans to storm out of #Brexit negotiations with no deal after French and German elections.

    I am not in the know, but this tactic is consistent with may and other brexiteers language. Paul Monaghan doesnt need a crystal ball, he is an mp at westinster
    —————————-
    I just don’t see where you get any justification whatever for attempting to narrow “Nicola’s” mandate in the way you assert.
    ——————————–

    simples, 62% voted for the status quo, not swedish type eu membership
    i also aware about the euro yoon havers

    ———————-
    Well, this is just perverse. The mandate was to stay in the EU. Nothing less.
    _________________

    the 62% andate was for the status quo, a unique deal that the uk had negotiated over a number of years, a far better deal than anyone else had, including sweden, with opt outs and a rebate. If what you say is true, if the euref had not offered leave/remain as options but uk deal or swedish deal options, what would the result have been?

    ———————
    You keep on pushing the EEA/EFTA route way beyond any reasonable justification, at least as things currently stand.
    ——————————

    I dont, this is currently the snp’s position as a compromise. are you against nicola’s and the snp’s option?

  214. schrodingers cat says:

    cat-scotland will be out of the eu before indyref2 happens. fact.

    Robert S– It’s just as likely that the EU will keep the door open for us…

    breeks-Ha ha ha. Gents for what it’s worth, in my crystal ball I think you are both right.

    —————–
    isnt that what i said earlier in the thread breeks?

    “we can announce indyref2 before the uk brexits, we may even get an agreement from the eu regarding an indy scotlands being fast tracked as the successor state via article 50(A49 requires agreement from all 27, A50 only a majority of the 27) but we cant hold indyref2 before WM brexits”

  215. manandboy says:

    A year ago it was George Osborne who was delivering the budget, preaching the virtues of austerity and warning that a vote for Brexit would imperil the economy. Now out of office he expects to earn £650,000 for 48 days work at BlackRock, parliamentary filings showed on Wednesday. That’s more than 13,500 pounds a day — or about half the U.K. average annual wage. (Brexit Bulletin)

    So what is it about George that’s worth £650,000 for 48 days work? Whatever the package of George’s input to Blackrock, his Government and Treasury connections, together with his own insider information, will undoubtedly be the most valuable.

    Are you sitting comfortably on the Gravy Train, George? ‘Yes, quite comfortable, thank you’ replied George.

    Every aspiring Unionist politicians’ dream.

  216. crazycat says:

    @ Macart at 8.26 and thereafter:

    You mentioned inexperience and youth on the part of the Greens, but one of the things that really annoys me (having occasionally voted for them in the past) is that, of the 6 of them, 4 have been MSPs before, and one of the other 2 is a seasoned campaigner outwith parliament.

    So it’s really only Ross Greer who has that excuse, and he has actually performed a lot better than I expected (I have a potentially unfair antipathy to him for various reasons!).

    They really should know better.

  217. Robert J. Sutherland says:

    schrodingers cat @ 13:00:

    I dont, this is currently the snp’s position as a compromise. are you against nicola’s and the snp’s option?

    Indeed, but you are attempting to extrapolate that compromise into something it’s not, and never was intended to be. It was proposed by the SG as an attempt to remain in the UK yet retain at least some of the advantages of the single market, that’s all. Nothing more. You are trying to inflate it into a self-assumed end goal for independence.

    It’s no such thing, dear friend. Once the SG’s compromise proposal is rejected in word or deed by UKGov, the EEA/EFTA compromise is dead. As the dodo. As the proverbial parrot.

    The SNP manifesto remains full EU membership. It’s you who seems to be against that. It hasn’t changed, except, it seems, in your hopes.

  218. yesindyref2 says:

    The IPSOS Mori poll is a very interesting one. Firstly it has 48% EU, 27% EFTA / EEA for a total of 75% Single Market one way or another, and only 17% against. That compares with 62% Remain and 38% Leave, so it seems to me a large number of the Leavers are persuaded by the EFTA / EEA option. That’s good.

    But that won’t happen within the UK, we basically know May & Co aren’t having it. So where do they go? And how important is it? For me it’s up to us in our Indy campaign to try to strengthen peoples’ wish to stay in the Single Market, and get it above staying in the UK. Maybe just by asking them: “What is it about the Single Market is important to you?”.

    The mechanism is less important for those who need persuaded, whether EU or EFTA / EEA, and perhaps the YES can try to cover both options, something I don’t think the ScotGov can do as the justification for Indy Ref 2 is being dragged out of the EU. And the reason for the EFTA / EEA option was to bring onboard those who want both – single market and UK. In that respect I think the ScotGov’s compromise paper has been very very effective.

    There is a “But”, next posting 🙂

  219. yesindyref2 says:

    The “But” is this, and a very big But. On a scale of 1 to 10, 1 being Completely support Independence, and 10 Completely support the union, 28% are a 1, lower than we might have hoped. And 38% are 10 – way higher than we would have hoped by now. But that contradicts the single market question, where only 17% want out of both EU and Single Market.

    So that’s an extra battleground, and personally I think we go hard at the staying in the union choice of that 38%: “Why do you want to stay in the union?”.

    Mark Diffley says the battleground is the 4 thru 7, that sounds OK on the surface, it could give YES a bare 55%, but probably less. For me that’s too close for comfort, so I definitely want to get through to the 8 to 10s – which seem to be the hard Unionists.

    I suspect this means the economy is a very main battleground. Touchy-feely “What sort of Scotland do you want”, won’t cut the mustard. We live here already after all! Having said that, a factor for many living here is standard of life, as opposed to standard of living. We’re not so much a “keep up with the Jones’s” as they are “down south”, more an enjoy what we have ourselves.

  220. Macart says:

    @crazycat

    The inexperience and youth part is basically a generalisation of the party at a particular level of parliamentary engagement. They don’t act as an experienced unit and the grasp of strategy and timing is poor.

    By their standards, they’re operating at a different level now. They’ve made gains enough to become the fourth party in chamber, but popularity for supporting a single cause and NOT being either Labour or Conservative will only go so far. If they wish to retain their current level or see it advance, then they’ll need to operate a damn sight smarter.

    You can put a team of disparate experienced players together, but it doesn’t make them a good team, or even ‘a’ team kinda thing.

  221. crazycat says:

    @ Macart

    Yes, agreed – but it’s disappointing. I don’t really see much scope for improvement, either, because I don’t think they realize!

  222. ScottieDog says:

    Folks some really good myth busting stuff about deficits, money and government finances.
    Currency is key.

    Deficits and surpluses…
    Government deficits are the norm – Randall Wray

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxDVRISfsls

    Pictorial representation of balance of deficit/surplus. Note the mirror image..
    (Gov deficit is our surplus and vice Versa)
    http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2016/04/uk-sectoral-balances-q4-2015.html

    A govt cannot become insolvent with respect to obligations in its own currency. A fiat currency like the ones we have today can produce such claims without limit
    Alan Greenspan
    https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/1997/19970114.htm

    Interview with Ben Bernanke after the financial crisis..

    Scott Pelley: “Is that tax money that the Fed is spending?”

    Ben Bernanke: “It’s not tax money… We simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account.”

    https://dailyreckoning.com/central-bank-can-never-run-money/

    The thing thatcher and most mainstream economists failed to understand when they deregulated the banks…(from the horses mouth)
    http://positivemoney.org/2014/03/bank-england-money-money-creation-modern-economy/

  223. Rock says:

    Thepnr,

    “@Rock

    Still seeking attention then. You’re a bigger numptie than Harvie. You will never receive a response again from me.”

    Numpties are the independence supporters who gave votes to the Greens, despite warnings from myself and Ken500.

    It would be a good idea for you not to respond to my posts as you, like the rest of your fellow gang members, are never able to counter the points I make.

    You have to resort to insults in your responses.

  224. ScottieDog says:

    Ok here’s a very good 6 minute summary about deficits by Randall Wray..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxDVRISfsls

  225. ScottieDog says:

    Some more myth busting stuff.
    Currency is key though..

    Pictorial representation of balance of deficit/surplus. Note the mirror image..
    (Gov deficit is our surplus and vice Versa)
    http://www.3spoken.co.uk/2016/04/uk-sectoral-balances-q4-2015.html

    A govt cannot become insolvent with respect to obligations in its own currency. A fiat currency like the ones we have today can produce such claims without limit
    Alan Greenspan
    https://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/1997/19970114.htm

    Interview with Ben Bernanke after the financial crisis..

    Scott Pelley: “Is that tax money that the Fed is spending?”

    Ben Bernanke: “It’s not tax money… We simply use the computer to mark up the size of the account.”

    https://dailyreckoning.com/central-bank-can-never-run-money/

    The thing thatcher and most mainstream economists failed to understand when they deregulated the banks…(from the horses mouth)
    http://positivemoney.org/2014/03/bank-england-money-money-creation-modern-economy/

  226. Mary Miles says:

    Greetings from Tasmania to all Scots for independence.

    Thank goodness for Wings Over Scotland as very little news comes over regarding the Scottish position on independence. Our ABC is very like the BBC over there I think – no information on Scottish Independence or news through Westminster.

    I will be praying for independence – a life long dream for me and thank you Stuart for all the wonderful work you do,

    I have made a donation .

  227. Brian Doonthetoon says:

    Hi Mary.

    Good to see you get something from WOS. I think everybody’s moved on to the newer pages. Feel free to add your tuppence worth, wherever.

  228. Cuilean says:

    We should still buy the National. Here’s why.

    It is NOT an SNP publication and is free to air all indy views. It has Wee Ginger Dug and Gordon MacIntyre Kemp among many other wonderful writers all with their fingers on the pulse of Scots politics.

    Reading the National is akin to, say, during the First World War, reading letters from the trenches whilst reading ‘The London Times’, ‘Telegraph’, ‘Guardian’ etc is equivalent to reading a First Word War general’s batman’s letter regurgitating gossip, overheard hundred of miles from the frontline.

    Of course the yoon owners of ‘The National’ only began ‘The National’ not as a political decision to promote independence (they thought the war was over). WE all know it was a purely economic decision to make money out of the niche market of the 45% of Scots voted YES.Fine.

    But here’s the thing, today. The National’s Yoon owners thought the question was ‘settled’ for at least another 10 or 20 years. Then came Brexit etc.

    Who knows? The national’s Yoon owners may regret creating what they thought was a harmless means of making money post 18 September 2014. Undoubtedly Westmisnter will be applying pressure on the national’s owners to close it down before the next indyref campaign starts for real; citing poor sales as their reason.

    Please keep buying ‘the National’, and please also support monthly ‘iScot’ and the oft forgotten, ‘The Scots Independent’ the oldest political European paper in existence, published each month since 1926, in Stirling. It is not published by the SNP and is entirely independent with 6,000 subscribers each month.

    We need them all.

  229. Rock says:

    Cuilean,

    “Of course the yoon owners of ‘The National’ only began ‘The National’ not as a political decision to promote independence (they thought the war was over). WE all know it was a purely economic decision to make money out of the niche market of the 45% of Scots voted YES.Fine.

    But here’s the thing, today. The National’s Yoon owners thought the question was ‘settled’ for at least another 10 or 20 years. Then came Brexit etc.”

    Only the most gullible independence supporters (roughly 9,000 at the last count) buy The National.

    As I have said many times before, “The National’s Yoon owners” will stop publishing it the moment that think it has started to help the independence cause.

    In the meantime, they are very happy to milk the likes of you.

    Poor yesindyref2 can only afford £5 per year for WOS but probably spends £100 or more per year on The National.

    Does (s)he post 20 times more on The National than (s)he does here?

    Does (s)he believe The National is worth 20 times more to the independence cause than WOS?

    yesindyref2,

    “To pick up what Rev says, all I gave was £5, and posted as much on the first thread.

    Am I ashamed it’s so little? Why should I be? It’s all I can afford at the moment.”



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