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Wings Over Scotland


Hobson’s Choice

Posted on August 10, 2014 by

64 to “Hobson’s Choice”

  1. eezy says:

    “Outside of London.”
    Nice….

  2. Barontorc says:

    Where does ‘London’ start and stop – where’s ‘inside’ and where’s ‘outside’?

    The gift that keeps on giving right enough. How can any Scots voter be swithering after so many slaps in the face?

  3. horacesaysyes says:

    Yet another example to show that there is really little appreciable difference between the main UK parties, and further evidence of exactly why we need to win this thing.

  4. tartanfever says:

    Yet London has over 400,000 unemployed, double the amount of Scotland and who can claim housing benefit up to 4 times higher that of Glasgow or Edinburgh.

    No problem with this, regional variations should be allowed. However, when considering Scotland’s rural area which by their very nature require similar extra spending due to remoteness, that makes us subsidy junkies.

    Funny how we never hear about the cost of London’d benefits bill.

  5. mogabee says:

    The absolute B**tards.

    That’s not just the Tories, but Labour and the other lot too.The “think tanks” must be full of the most evil people to have dreamt this up.

  6. Dougie Douglas says:

    What gets me is that these London subsidies fly in the face of their beloved market principles.

  7. Scotsfox says:

    All that Pooling & Sharing that we apparently benefit from obviously. We share, they pool…

  8. Indy_Scot says:

    “outside London”

    Does that mean all of Scotland.

  9. Ali says:

    Labour MPs in NE England were quick to speak out against this but Labour in Scotland remained silent despite SNP asking them to clarify their position. Scottish Labour show themselves once more to be puppets controlled by London Labour.
    http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2013/jun/scottish-labour-must-be-clear-regional-caps
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-22813874http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/labour-unveil-plan-regional-cap-1930107

  10. Heather says:

    I presume they’ve not been to Aberdeen then.

  11. Indy_Scot says:

    Would it not be great if there was, I don’t know, say a referendum soon, which could mean that Scotland would avoid crap like this.

    Oh, my bad.

  12. JLT says:

    If it’s a ‘No’ win, then seriously …God help the folk who voted for it!
    A couple of weeks ago while canvassing in Bathgate, a young couple who mentioned they were on benefits, were voting ‘No’ because if ‘Yes’ win, ‘then we’ll lose our benefits.’

    Seriously, my jaw hit the floor. When I tried to explain what will really happen in the event of a No vote, I was brushed away with,‘Nah, yir awright mate …we’re voting ‘No’ to protect ourselves. Benefits is all we’ve got’

    Cameron, Osborne and Darling must be smirking deep inside when they hear such responses. Seriously …god help these folk if ‘No’ win.

  13. Walking on Sunshine says:

    Labour and the Tories seem to be in agreement about everything these days.

    How can people who vote for these parties tell the difference?

    Tweedledee and Tweedledum spring to mind.

  14. fred blogger says:

    race to the bottom gathers pace, move 1000’s out of london drives up housing costs elsewhere, safety net becomes trap. then there is these monstrosity’s, to keep the home/buy to let/share owning democracy happy. rent a hutch. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-22306838

  15. Clootie says:

    Cut the benefits outside London
    Keep the strong pull to London pushing up costs and wages

    Cut the benefits outside London again
    Keep the strong pull to London pushing up costs and wages

    Then cut the benefits more in areas that have a lower cost of living.Cornwall, Wales, Scotland, NI, North of England
    Keep the strong pull to London pushing up costs and wages.

    More cuts PLUS you widen the basic principle. Why should a civil servant / teacher / Bin man etc get the same wages as those in London and the SE.

    The spiral never stops and the review just expands to pull in NHS / Pensions (If you need less benefits then you need less pension in these areas)

    Look at the direction of travel in Westminster Politics and note the general alignment of the main parties.
    They all support austerity cuts
    They all have broadly agreed with benefit capping.
    All have raised the issue of “regional variation”

    We are already on the journey down the spiral – this is your one and only chance to get off.

    For example: In 10 years the NHS will be beyond the point of recovery. The financial input to rebuild it would be crippling. The Forth Rail Bridge scenario – once you stop maintaining it (painting) it would become too costly to restore and some point.

  16. JimnArlene says:

    Shysters, the lot of them.

  17. muttley79 says:

    I see Boris Johnson is saying there should be no more powers for Scotland in the event of a No vote. Given Darling’s non response to the question in the debate last week, will our beloved MSM chase up reaction from the No campaign, or will they just ignore it and pretend it never happened?

  18. handclapping says:

    So their sharing never got beyond the one for you and one for me and two for you and one, two for me stage.

    Anybody know what their pooling really means?

  19. TD says:

    It is interesting how the Tories and their sidekicks, the LibDems and Labour, support the free market – except when it has an undesirable effect on something or somewhere they hold dear.

    Lets just think about what is happpening here. Because London is a blackhole for wealth, hoovering up the resources of the rest of the country – including the poorer parts of England as well as Scotland – prices of housing in particular go through the roof. So someone on the minimum wage – or even on the wage of a nurse or a teacher – cannot live there without receiving a top up. Of course, by paying this top up the problem is perpetuated and it comes out of public money. So rents just keep going up and more benefits have to be paid. London Weighting for those in employment has a similar effect – pay people more so the prices they can afford stay high and so it all just keeps going.

    Now if the Tory/LibDem/Labour free marketeers were true to their principles, they would just pay the same benefits in London as elsewhere and pay the same wages in London as elsewhere. Then people on lower wages – the sort of people who do useful things – would not be able to live in London, so the demand for property would fall and rents would come down. Also, because there wouldn’t be any nurses in the hospitals or teachers in the schools, London would be a less desirable place to live, so housing costs generally would fall as people moved to places which were better.

    It’s a brutal mechanism but it’s what they apply in most walks of life and in most parts of the country. But not in dear old London town – too close to home for them I think. Ah well, let’s all keep paying our taxes so that they can be used to prop up the London housing bubble.

    Or maybe there’s an alternative….

  20. Lesley-Anne says:

    Golly gosh. With just so many options to choose from I have absolutely no idea which political party has the biggest draw for my vote next year. Could it be the BLUE Tories I wonder … or maybe the YELLOW Tories … No wait a minute I think I have got it by jove … it’s the RED Tories. Hang on a minute I think I’ve got that wrong. It’s not which party has the biggest DRAW for my vote but which party does NOT have the biggest draw for my vote. 😛

    The RAINBOW Tories are dead in the water! 😀

    Thank goodness Scotland will only have 10 months of this ignorant, egotistical, self indulgent,incompetent party to deal with before REALITY checks into Scotland with INDEPENDENCE! 😉

  21. Macart says:

    We’re all in it together…

    Pooling and sharing…

    One Nation.

    Oh really?

  22. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @Lesley-Anne says:
    Golly gosh. With just so many options to choose from I have absolutely no idea which political party has the biggest draw for my vote next year. Could it be the BLUE Tories I wonder … or maybe the YELLOW Tories … No wait a minute I think I have got it by jove … it’s the RED Tories …

    Dinnae forget those nice PURPLE Tories …

  23. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    The PURPLE Tories aka the al Aqsa Brigade.

  24. Lesley-Anne says:

    In fairness fred, if these container homes were properly insulated are were used SOLELY to help house the homeless I think they could be a good idea. Let’s face it if your homeless you do not have much in the way of belongings and you are really only looking for a place to put a roof over your head at night. I reckon a 40 foot container could provide a roof, space for a bed, toilet facilities and a wee kitchenette.

    I am not suggesting that these sort of *ahem* housing units are used by the homeless as a long term solution, although we all know they probably would be, but in the short term as a definitive aid for the homeless and homeless aid charities I think they could be a good move.

    I do agree with fred about the home/buy to let/share owning democracy happy. rent a hutch. In fact I am very surprised that this is NOT already happening in some parts of London. Let’s face it what they can get away with charging for some locations where the FULL flat size is SMALLER than a garage utterly astounds me. Broom cupboards are us! 😛

  25. Lesley-Anne says:

    Aye I forgot them in the first part of my post Calgacus but they were included in my second part under the Rainbow Tories. 😉 😛

  26. Papadox says:

    Lady Jola Lamont is today in Kinning Park (scotsman) to explain to the no’s that yes or no the Scottish government will have to introduce austerity. What is her reason for this idiotic statement?

    Westminster, HMG, Milliband, EBC, MSM & lady Magrit, her china, says so!

    As I have believed for a long time, Jola really doesn’t know what politics are nor understand what independence means. She is either a liar, ignorant or just plane thick.

    The worrying thing is there are other people who believe this rubbish or are prepared to pretend they do for whatever their motives. Oink oink

    London speaks, Labour Scottish region jump, before being led back to their sty and trough. Oink oink. There is a smell of death about this once proud institution. After Eds enlightening threats the other day I think their PLAN B is mass suicide. You couldn’t make it up. These numpties will protect and bolster the psudo middle class nae Sayers, aye in yer dreams.

  27. fred blogger says:

    lesley-anne
    i should have said rent-a-cell.
    but lets get to the core and in 35c heat + the noise, the rules, the regulations, the conditionality, no garden, would you choose to live in one?
    people hated prefabs @ 1st but then there is the veg plot,the community, so they began to love them. when it come time to move people out of prefabs they kicked up hell.
    the solution is to build millions of eco-homes.

  28. Dan Huil says:

    Sadly some poor people in Scotland will vote No because they believe the scare stories. Westminster sniggers.

  29. heedtracker says:

    Fuck off daily telegraph sometimes just doesn’t cut it.

    “However, ministers have announced a crackdown on welfare cheats under which they will be forced to sell their homes and pay higher fines to reimburse money they have wrongly claimed.

    So what do you call the City banksters that were given hundreds of billions in welfare, made themselves even richer on money they’ll never pay back and still there’s nothing done by Westminster or the stuffed shirts in the Treasury to prevent same super rich spivs next time.

    Time for another devastating OBR and FSI forecast for the sweaties chaps, Scots oil’s run out, Scots finance industry moving to London, no CU for the blighters, you know the drill…

    This chap doesn’t want any change and he makes a fortune advising other rich people how to dodge UKOK tax. Funny that, grass roots vote Nob. Orders.com Tory party donor tax evaders say vote no, shock.

    http://www.companiesintheuk.co.uk/director/11603508/malcolm-offord

  30. Jeannie says:

    So will we be paying lower levels of tax and NI, commensurate with lower benefits? Just askin’. And will the well-off in London be paying higher taxes and NI in order to afford this? Or does it just mean that we all pay the same, but more benefits go to London and the South East so they can top up the low wages of people down there at the expense of people up here? Don’t bother ….think I know the answer already.

  31. heedtracker says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/aug/10/boris-johnson-conservative-party-leadership-david-cameron

    How often are we going to have or listen to BetterTogetherists like Jim Murphy MP rant, “don’t worry and don’t be stupid, ofcourse we’ll win the UKOK general election, and it’s going to be great this time,”

  32. heedtracker says:

    The Daily Heil loves future PM BoJo, can’t think why, daily express just came, hootsmans wet itself, BBC in Scotland too busy replacing Vote Farage headlines right the noo.

    “The Mail on Sunday reported that dozens of Tory MPs are prepared to vote against the first Queen’s speech of the new government in a bid to replace Cameron with Johnson, if the Tory leader enters into another coalition with the Liberal Democrats.”

  33. Lesley-Anne says:

    As I have believed for a long time, Jola really doesn’t know what politics are nor understand what independence means. She is either a liar, ignorant or just plane thick.

    I think there is only ONE answer to your question here Papadox … YES! 😛

    i should have said rent-a-cell.
    but lets get to the core and in 35c heat + the noise, the rules, the regulations, the conditionality, no garden, would you choose to live in one?

    I agree about the 35C heat problems fred but I was looking at this as solution for the homeless and in that aspect the homeless do no generally stay in a place during the day they are usually out on the streets. I don’t think the 35C heat problem therefore becomes such a problem. Where it DOES become a problem is when all those schysters in the likes of London start buying them up and renting them out. In my view though anyone who actually BUYS something like this is actually insane. There again I’m talking about London here and it is full of insane people. People who buy broom cupboards as a fully furnished apartment. I jest you not. When in London I remember one going for sale that was HALF the size of a 20 foot container for a not inconsequential 6 figure sum! Go figure. 😉

    I’m 100% with you fred on the building of the eco homes thingy though. 😛

  34. Andy-B says:

    If we vote no, we deserve all we get from Westminster, we’ll be saying hey its okay,you apply any policy you want, and they will.

  35. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think if we get a NO Andy it will be the Highland clearances all over again. This time however it will not be so much a case of herding the Scots onto ships bound for some unknown land it will be even simpler than that, it will be one long trail of funerals as people die from malnutrition, suicide etc. Still at least with all these deaths Westminster will still be able to keep their toy nuke subs parked up at Faslane!

  36. Maid_in_Scotland says:

    A Mr Jim Murphy was touring the far north last week with his NO THANKS banner and bus, and is reported in a local provincial paper as saying that his round Scotland tour is the most fun he has ever had in politics. Help ma Boab, life must be pretty bleak down Westminster and East Renfrewshire way. Anyway, I’m glad he’s enjoying himself. But he felt obliged to complain that a woman with a YES badge and a YES cover on her mobile phone was ‘actually quite nasty’, and horror of horrors, she then apparently got a round of applause (I’m sure I’ve already heard this story before somewhere).

    Anyhoo, he was pictured with 5 other people, one of whom is a LibDemer. “We proud Scots but .. political types are just one big happy family” a leading local campaigner was heard to say. :-{

  37. Maid_in_Scotland says:

    Sorry, should have said above was slightly O/T

  38. Robert Peffers says:

    @Walking on Sunshine says: 10 August, 2014 at 1:48 pm:

    “Tweedledee and Tweedledum spring to mind.”

    Wrote this years ago

    There’s Tweedledee and Tweedledum
    Then there is Tweedledem,
    Ye cuddna shove a fag paper,
    ‘Tween ony twa o them.

    I wrote it when Salmond first cracked the joke about the LibDems.

    There were several other verses but that’s all I can draw from mind. I’d have to flash up the other machine and do a big search and the computer has many terabytes of storage

  39. joe kane says:

    The Tories are to the left of Labour on may policies now. Destroying Labour support is a skoosh for the Tories. All they need to do is simply announce a policy and Labour will automatically say they’re going to go further and be enough tougher. Job done.

  40. Lesley-Anne says:

    I’d have to flash up the other machine and do a big search and the computer has many terabytes of storage

    Ooh, look at the show off … terabytes is it that he’s got ooh! while the rest of us are happy with our wee gigabytes thingys. 😛

    Sorry Robert couldn’t help myself there. 😉 😀

  41. joe kane says:

    Millions of people aren’t getting the social security benefits they’re legally entitled to anyway due to the deliberate neoliberal sabotaging of a welfare system that worked perfectly well until New Labour started “reforming” it.

    Here is Nick at the peerless ilegal –
    Why isn’t this being treated as a national scandal?
    Well over one million people await correct benefit payments
    Chaotic Department for Work & Pensions fails to process people’s claims, leaving tens of thousands of claimants destitute & impoverished for months on end…..

    http://ilegal.org.uk/thread/7140/dwps-esa-reassessment-programme-chaos?page=13&scrollTo=21959

  42. cearc says:

    fred blogger,

    Stack-a-prole, literally.

  43. Robert Peffers says:

    @TD says: 10 August, 2014 at 2:16 pm

    “It is interesting how the Tories and their sidekicks, the LibDems and Labour, support the free market – except when it has an undesirable effect on something or somewhere they hold dear.”

    I’ll tell you something about London from personal experiance. I used to have to spend lots of weekends in London. I got expenses so It was no problem. However, I took to swapping my first class travell and accomodation for cheaper stuff so as to be able to take my, (then), new wife with me and instead of leaving Edinburgh Airport on either Sunday night or Monday morning we would go south on Friday night.

    I found that far from the cost of living being higher than it was in Scotland just about everything, (except housing), was much cheaper. So here’s the thing, and I’m talking many years ago, if you went to certain places the prices were utterly idiotic and I mean high idiotic. It cost more to just hang your coat up in some places, never mind have a cup of tea, than you could live on for a week. The reason was to keep, “the Riff-Raff”, out.

    That’s London for you it has some of the richest people in the World but also has the worst child poverty in the entire UK. Now remember that those statistics mean that if the child in a family is rated as in poverty that whole family is on benefite even if one or more works. Look up the child poverty figures for Tower Hamlets. 3 in five in some parts in child poverty : –

    http://www.eastlondonadvertiser.co.uk/news/politics/extent_of_tower_hamlets_child_poverty_levels_revealed_1_1801847

  44. Robert Peffers says:

    Lesley-Anne says: 10 August, 2014 at 3:51 pm:

    “It will be one long trail of funerals as people die from malnutrition, suicide etc.

    Soylant Blue, Red or Yellow anyone?

  45. Andy-B says:

    @Lesley-Anne.

    What a depressing future it will be if we vote no, no hope, no aspirations, no feel good factor, no helping to shape a future Scotland, for the better.

    But! we will have more nukes, more austerity, more poverty,and no doubt more illegal wars, god I hope we do the right thing and vote yes.

  46. Robert Peffers says:

    Lesley-Anne says:
    10 August, 2014 at 4:26 pmI’d have to flash up the other machine and do a big search and the computer has many terabytes of storage

    Ooh, look at the show off … terabytes is it that he’s got ooh! while the rest of us are happy with our wee gigabytes thingys.

    Sorry Robert couldn’t help myself there.

    Nae Bother Lassie, I’ll explain myself for you. I do photography, video and audio editing and that means lots of storage space needed. I also write short stories and poetry in Scots and English.

    One of these days I’ll put my website back up again. Did I mention I run three computers?

    DARFC.

  47. Lesley-Anne says:

    Don’t forget the purple Robert! We can’t forget the purple. 😛

  48. Lesley-Anne says:

    Aye you are right there Andy depression right enough, depression with a capital D. 🙁

    You really like rubbing it in don’t you Robert. 😛

    Here’s me using the old coal powered steam driven laptop. Excuse me now while I go beg some more coal for the boiler. 😛

    One day Robert. One day I’ll move up to a REAL computer, one that is NOT steam driven. 😉 😀

  49. Mary Bruce says:

    If anyone hasn’t seen the Hunger Games yet get the DVD. It won’t be long until Boris has London operating like the fabulously wealthy and glamorous Capitol and Scotland will one of the outlying neglected sectors where people live in poverty and work to provide food and resources for the elite classes in the Capitol.

    I reckon we’re only a couple of decades away.

  50. Morag says:

    Or just read the books. Much more detail and nuance.

  51. bjsalba says:

    My lib-Dem MP has been conspicuous mostly by his absence. He has nothing about activities on his web page.

  52. As the date of the referendum draws nearer I have a dreadful feeling that the Better together side seeing that they might lose the vote will try anything to win.
    I am particularly concerned about the postal votes .Can somebody explain to me how the votes will be counted and what security there is to stop any wrong doing

  53. Lesley-Anne says:

    Funnily enough ronnie I’m hearing this a lot more and more these days. Even a friend of ours, Yes she has always been a YES supporter by the way, brought up the fear of postal vote fraud in a discussion we had today.

  54. Cumoangerraff says:

    Boris says Scotland should get no further powers. He also appears to have a lot of backing to support his bid to lead the Tory party.
    This leads to the inevitable question: What is the standing of the Edinburgh Agreement if Dave is no longer PM? If Boris replaces Dave as PM, or by some fluke Ed wins the 2015 UK election, are we going to find that the mutual respect agenda is off the table as far as the independence negotiations are concerned? Could be a good thing, just tell them to stuff their debt, and where they can put their nukes.

  55. Lesley-Anne says:

    I think the Edinburgh Agreement will still be in force
    Cumoangerraff because David Cameron signed in on behalf of the Westminster government. If there was a change of P.M. in 2015, which I and most reasonable people do not think will happen, then the new P.M. would have to seriously consider their position if they tried to re-negotiate the E.A.

    I agree with your sentiment at the end of your post and I think that is going to happen anyway. 😉

    Should Westminster continue with their fantasy of saying NO to any currency union right up to close to independence day then I really expect Alex Salmond to turn round to them and tell them to keep ALL of their debt cause Scotland is using the pound WITHOUT a c.u. As far as the toy subs with nukes are concerned I understand that there is a timetable being discussed amongst the Scottish government that the nukes will be gone by 2020. 😛

  56. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    I am curious; outside of the Central Belt in Scotland, many locations have a very much increased cost of living. Do THEY qualify for “London Weighting”? It is so much so that in one case, I know someone who lives near Lochgilphead, and it is actually worth her while to drive a five hour round trip for a visit and pick up a pile of messages which cost considerably more in her locale.

  57. flux_capacitor says:

    Peter,

    I work in Aberdeen and we have recently taken on a couple of contractors from the midlands. They were flabbergasted at the cost of living up here.

    Incidentally, our expenses form has a tick-box for ‘working in London’, where the allowances are ~1.5x more.

  58. John D aka Nkosi says:

    Like wise us for the shopping even on a weekly basis as there is only a little shop in the petrol station in Invergarry, another shop 2 miles away next the Seven Wells at Loch Oich, then a Londis in Fort Augustus (7 miles away), a Spar in Spean Bridge (10 miles away), until we get to Fort William which has a Morrison and a small Tesco (25 miles away). The the Tesco capital of Scotland, Inverness, 4 Tesco stores, a Morrison and an Asda (44 miles away).

  59. Jim Hendry says:

    “Nice to have a range of democratic options about punishing the poor, isn’t it, Britons?” Since you obviously consider the current average wage in Scotland, should be paid to those on benefits, are you also proposing that the minimum wage should be increased to allow low paid workers to be above the poverty line of GBP26,000, which you intimate in your comment?

  60. Penfold says:

    The telegraph article that Wings has lifted this from then goes on to discuss how Osbourne last week discussed how he is considering using money from the welfare budget to…..

    ‘improve transport links in ‘the north which will bring real economic return” rather than “trapping people in poverty”. ……

    Nice to know when your kids are starving and you’ve no money for heating…. at least the bus service is better.

  61. Lesley-Anne says:

    Aye that’s true Penfold, soon they’ll have twice as many trains and buses to break down as they have at the moment. 😛

  62. Croompenstein says:

    improve transport links in ‘the north which will bring real economic return” rather than “trapping people in poverty”

    Something tells me he isn’t talking about Scotland!

  63. Lesley-Anne says:

    You mean this is NOT another one of George’s *ahem* bribes to us Scots to Vote NO in September then Croomps. Damn, had me fooled. I was all set to go out hell and leather for a NO vote based on that *cough* promise! 😛



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