Have we got friends for you
The BBC’s flagship satirical programme “Have I Got News For You” is, of course, comedy. The tone of the opening minutes of last night’s episode was a little uglier and nastier than the usual friendly inter-regional jibes (normally delivered by the likes of Jeremy Clarkson and accompanied by rebukes from the rest of the panel), but it really wasn’t anything to get overly worked up about. Comedy isn’t always cuddly.
It must have been a little uncomfortable for the No camp, though.
Because the air of patronising condescension also carried a discernible undercurrent of barely-disguised contempt. Scotland’s exports were “oil, whisky, tartan and tramps”. Our currency would be “the Mars bar”. And when guest host Ray Winstone put the notion to a vote, a large percentage of the audience voted to “tell them to bugger off”.
And that’s all well and good. We want independence for the benefit of Scotland, and we don’t much care if the rest of the UK misses us or not. As far as we’re concerned, with independence everyone wins – it’d be the healthiest thing to happen to relations between Scotland and England in three centuries.
But heavens, imagine the cringeing, subservient hurt of those who watched last night thinking “But we’re one of you! You’re our fellow Brits! We don’t want to leave you!”
Any independence supporter who takes major offence at the sneery, patronising jokes on last night’s episode needs to get some perspective. It’s hardly a surprise that a couple of English public school sorts and a Cockney stereotype took a few pops at the “Jocks”. (It was noticeable that US comic Reginald D Hunter didn’t join in.)
But we can’t help wondering how it must feel to be so sharply reminded of your proper place in the UK by the people you’re so desperately trying to portray as our respectful equal partners, and to have them express just how much they value your partnership.
We liked the bit where Paul Merton threw a glass of water in his own face, though.
I’ll watch the extended version later in the week but I don’t think Paul Merton joined in either.
Like yourself I wasn’t upset by the jokes but I noticed the “them” and “they” comments so we are clearly already not part of ‘us”.
Sorry to go o/t right away, but I thought this might cheer a few folk up: Oil firm to invest $20 billion in the North Sea.
http://t.co/QGwqAkoVv8
Thanks to Adrian for explaining to me how to provide a link.
Thing is, is that many Scottish unionists would be laughing along with them. A fine line between self deprecating & self loathing. Large portion of Scottish society crossed it a long time ago.
This is the social madness that afflicts Scotland. It’s also why Scotland could vote to reject autonomy and self government.
In nearly every other European country a vote to control your own affairs wouldn’t even have real opposition. If Scotland votes No it will be an unprecedented act in the history of European nations. Any idea of nationhood and being a bona fide country will be in tatters.
And if it happens, I’m off. I’m not interested in raising a family in a society which specialises in self-humiliation and failure.
But I bet they’ll be back in Edinburgh for the Fringe!
You could argue that the Fringe is in, but not of, Scotland.
Reginald performs every year at the Edinburgh Festival. I suspect he has a different experience of Scotland to the stereotypes on display last night on HIGNY.
That is true, but I still enjoy it. It’s up to us to capture a bit more of it. I hope National Collective are on the case.
I wouldn’t get too het up about this sort of thing. They do similar to France and Germany and all sorts. The great thing is that the notion we are going is already fixed. This is far more of a problem for the No camp than the Yes camp,
Reginald and Paul are both excellent comedians and the chap chairing was playing to a stereotype himself. Ian? Who knows, he is wonderfully Londoncenric.
“Sorry to go o/t right away,”
You were three minutes from ending up in Quarantine there, Bill.
Reminds me of this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdChs1CSs2E
On HIGNFY I thought there was one particularly telling aspect to the whole shenanigans. That was where there was ‘no’ actual differentiation between those for or against independence …or not that I noticed.
It was all about ‘the Scots’. A bit of a slap in the face for the Scottish section of the Better Together campaign was it not.
I suppose now that we are all lumped together by Mr Hislop the unionist Scots may as well vote Yes.
Quite sad when your own kind don’t show a desire to recognise you. Better Together my a***
Never mind …we’ll soon be independent and they can all go f*** themselves.
Sorry Rev, are there new rules in place? I think I may have missed something.
HIGNFY is the sort of thing which caused me a long time ago to become a Nationalist and Independence supporter. It annoys me no end that English ‘comedy’ programmes play Scottish (and W,NI,I et al) stereotypes for easy laughs but seldom make jokes about the English stereotypes. And the English media including the BBC regularly demeans Scotland too. I am sure HIGNFY the other night will have sickened a few more Undecideds and will induce them to vote YES. And one last point. If such a show making fun of the English were shown on a Scottish podcast the SCOTTISH media would wall to wall with cries of racism. So why aren’t they doing so now
Now, I never watch so-called English ‘comedy’ programmes or ‘comedians’ because they are trite, use Metropolistan humour, presented by unfunny graduates from Oxbridge. And they are not funny. In fact I don’t watch English TV at all, preferring American stuff, and recently the French channel TV5. (It has English sub-titles for its non-news programmes)
I usually watch the programme, and as Ian Hislop is a supporter of Justice for Megrahi and I actually like the guy I tend to view it as “my sort of programme”. Then once in a while it does something like this.
I’m glad I wasn’t watching last night, because I would just have got very very cross. However, RevStu is right. This sort of contempt and divisiveness hurts Better Together, not the Yes campaign.
I agree with HandandShrimp. This is just quite helpful knock-about.
Agree with not getting too het up about this sort of thing. I stopped watching HIGNFY years ago – irrelevant and increasingly unfunny. As Stuart Maconie has pointed out, its humour is the opposite of satire, confirming prejudices rather than challenging them.
I hope after independence we get some proper satire, like a Scottish Jon Stewart.
‘Sorry Rev, are there new rules in place? “
Not formally, though it’s something I’ve been thinking about writing down along with some stuff about trolls. Going off-topic in the first comment of a post is really quite rude, and the second isn’t much better. Once the conversation’s been going a little bit, fine.
(I may be unduly cranky today on account of some idiots.)
In addition to HIGNFY, on the wireless we also had the News Quiz on R4, which can be quite entertaining, except when, as last night we had their resident cringing jock, Susan Calman getting stuck into the currency question. I switched off after a few minutes because I can’t be bothered listening to such unfunny, patronising guff.
It’s just more of the same sneering attitude that we should all be used to by now.
I agree it does more damage to the No side and can only help the Yes side.
The problem I’ve always had with this style of ‘comedy’ is that when you replace ‘Scottish’ with another minority group then this sort of attitude would be condemned from front-page to front-page as racist, bad form, non-pc etc.
But they’re only Scots, so they don’t matter.
This sort of thing needs to be presented as proof of the London bubble view of Scotland. Sadly, in my experience, the London bubble view of everywhere outside the bubble is pretty condescending. At least Hislop acknowledges that Osborne made a “threat.” I welcome that phrase from Hislop, hopefully that will not have been lost on viewers.
It is a comedy show, as you say. I agree with ‘a supporter’
however – if it was Scots mocking the English it would be
castigated as ‘racism’.
However, I get the impression that it accurately sums up
the situation about the Independence debate; it is all a
big joke in England. The ‘national’ television broadcasters
barely mention anything about something that is potentially
(if YES) the biggest thing Britain/the UK has ever seen.
In that vein, I’m sure if there is a YES vote people down
south will be in shock for years. They don’t think it will
happen, they are not reporting on it, and frankly, are
not interested in hearing the facts of the situation.
English friends who have given the matter a moment’s thought assume we have already made up our minds and are on our way. I think that explains the audience reaction.
I like Reginald D. Hunter I am not surprised that he didn’t join in. A lot of his comedy is exposing the absurdity of prejudice. I will watch on i player when I have the time.
I read about the fuss on F/B and, and when I wnet to BBC iPlayer to find out what the horror was about, I had to wonder…
These shows do this to everyone. The royals, the Tories, Labour and the Whigs…
They do it to Americans, Germans, and mostly to the french, because the English don’t like the French.
As for the audience, it’s not beyond possible that this was rehearsed with them to make good tv. But even if it wasn’t, they have been fed the parasitical Jock story by Boris Johnson and his likes so many times, why would they not believe it. Most of them have never been here, and some of them do wonder if we are primitives.
We must be able to take this kind of stuff in our stride. There will be more of it to come.
Radio 4’s much superior “The News Quiz” had the same sort of question, with the same kind of audience laughing loudly at us. The slightly unwholesome feature of the radio version was that Susan Calman, a Scottish comedienne, milked the English audience for laughs át her own country’s expense and lied about the currency issue.
It can probably only do us good though, as people on the edge feel insulted by the disdain in which some of the English hold us.
In general I have always enjoyed HIGNFY although I haven’t watched it live for a few years now. But Ian Hislop is very much “establishment” now, albeit as the quaint, rather rascally uncle that every “good” family has. Private Eye is another matter, and always a good read, but HIGNFY is a bit past its prime (IMHO).
It’s only comedy, but as others have noted, the sneering aspect will only reinforce the YES side.
A while back some folk were posting generally positive comments here about Private Eye. I stayed my hand then but Hislop last night just reminded me what a self-regarding metropolitan outlook he and his magazine have. I remember a piece a year or so ago about the poor state of cemeteries in Edinburgh … leading to the patronisingly worded conclusion that a country that can’t look after these is clearly barbarian and in no condition to look after itself. I stopped buying Private Eye after that.
Last night’s HIGNFY comes as no surprise. When even allegedly serious current affairs programmes regularly ridicule the very notion of Scottish independence (see Emily Maitlis all but laughing in John Swinney’s face in front of mocked up bank notes with Salmond superimposed on them this midweek) you have to understand the English public are even more ill-informed than Scots. Otherwise clued up journalist friends of mine in London are shocking ignorant of the arguments up here and regularly come away with anti-Salmond guff circa 2007.
The referendum for the English is either a non-issue or a joke. Let’s hope to God they have a rude awakening ahead of them.
Fair enough Rev, point taken. Can’t say as I blame you.
I totally agree with Cassandra Lee. I have just heard Saturday’s repeat of The News Quiz and couldn’t believe my ears when Susan Calman started her mocking rant. At least she refused to be drawn on how she would be voting as no doubt she doesn’t wish to lose half of her fans.
Ian Hislop was supercilious and unpleasant last night on HIGNFY. I was disappointed in him.
Isn’t Susan Calman the offspring of the same Calman who had the Commision? Says it all really? I agree with the majority of contributors so far who don’t see this as any threat to the Yes campaign. Quite the reverse actually.
Hail Alba!
It was oh so different when all the complaints came in re the “anyone but England” t-shirts during the last World Cup. Grinning and bearing is fine but if done long enough lockjaw sets in. let us hope and pray we have the last laugh.
Susan Calman is the daughter of Kenny Calman of that report.
So much for the “British” Broadcasting Corporation And all those references to “them” and “they”.
The contempt is palpable.
Wonder what that ("Quizmaster" - Ed) Darling would say about it?
The comments and clips were what you’d expect but for the NO Scotland side it must be a bit of a downer to see the people you want to stay united with resolutely say burger off. (Though this isn’t exactly the first time a show of hands has been aired on BBC).
“Isn’t Susan Calman the offspring of the same Calman who had the Commision?”
Coo, so she is. Didn’t know that.
I can’t say I’m particularly bothered about the content of this programme as I’ve had it marked on my ‘pish list’ for years.
Think I might be a bit more on the money with this one Rev.
http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/why-scotland-should-vote-yes-to-independence/
@Rev. Stuart Campbell
at 1:51pm
Rev, You have made my day. For once I knew something that you didn’t 😉
It’s a shame that Susan Calman (daughter of Ken) is on the News Quiz so much these days. I used to quite enjoy it but can’t bear her. I think it’s meant to be self-deprecating, but I have heard her talk Scotland down too many times. She’s quite happy to play to stereotypes for the benefit of a metropolitan audience and she isn’t funny anyway.
@ Bill C
Ha, ha, thats a good link. Well done!
Why the f**k should we put up with this continious never ending derogative/downgrading anti Scottish BS propagated by a public funded broadcaster. I for one take offence to the insulting comments made by in my view shitarse people who have not and could not suffer or endure what real life is like for the majority of our fellow countrymen.
Time to respond and call these pampered a**holes for what they are.
Guess what: Where I work in the this part of the world most of the guy’s in charge are Scottish and are well respected for their management, work ethic, knowledge, cultural acceptance and integrity. No lessons needed by a bunch of London shysters and puusy’s who have not done a real days work in their lives. GTF
I’m with @Tris, pretty much what the programme does every week. London is insular in many ways. When I was working there, 2000’s, the Evening Standard’s approach to Scottish Labour ministers was quite an eye opener, culminating in their G Brown hatefest.
On a personal level, most days, there was a low level anti-Scottish jibe from a couple of usual suspects. I was working in a very London metro centric environment. I never saw it as my problem, if anything I found it quite curious. It’s based, I think, on fear and a genuine inability to comprehend why we would want to leave the Union.
So much of the identity politics discussion relates to Unionists in my view.
And as for Susan Calman, dear oh dear. It’s a shame R4 thinks Fred Mc and Ms Calman are the only ‘funny’ people in Scotland. Though both do wery well, I’m sure, from the BBC, north snd south of the border.
How stupid would you have to be, to be Scottish and want to continue a union with a country of people that only want to take the piss out of you and then tell you to bugger off.
Pretty stupid I would think.
Cheers Adrian, all down to a good teacher.
Yeah it certainly must be a bitter pill to swallow for the undecided in Scotland watching what is one of the most popular comedy series aired on the BBC ever. Flagship and award winning comedy reduced to essentially dragging out decades old mild racist stereotypes to try and “satirise” a modern dynamic that they do not really understand. That the reality of modern and historic Scotland bears no relation whatsoever to the 1970’s-esque sarcasm on display is the true irony of the episode in my opinion.
Gotta love Reginald D Hunter though.
Can’t be bothered with Susan Calman, there is nothing clever or witty about her ‘comedy’, it’s all put downs and self loathing. HIGNFY is boring now, like so many BBC programmes, is past its sell-by date by about five years.
I didn’t see HIGNFY but Jimmy Carr on 10 O’clock Live also had a dig. I agree with others it can only help the Yes side. btw I was polled by the Tory Party last night on UK and Scotland, they’ll email the results next week. Goody.
Bill C says:
27 April, 2013 at 1:54 pm
Think I might be a bit more on the money with this one Rev.
http://sabotagetimes.com/reportage/why-scotland-should-vote-yes-to-independence/
Some of the comments are doozies and this being on a real left wing blog too, unless the UKIP and their bootboys EDF/BNP are in there too for rammy?
Do lefties read The Telegraph and Mail too, unless they also watch the BBC. Ah that’s it, the BBC.
You can raise your eyebrows at BBC Scotlandshire satire as I would have last night;
http://www.bbc.scotlandshire.co.uk/index.php/city-news/370-shock-as-darlings-eyebrows-back-yes-vote.html
Susan Calman needs to take a good look at herself and her soul. Fame and money at the expense of her fellow countryman is not ethical. I hope she has the courage to respond to this criticism and explain why she hates get country so much?
I have long believed that Alistair Darling and Professor Hugh Pennington time-share the same pair of eye-brows. Think about it. Have you ever seen them together in the same photograph?
Susan Calman is ripe for the Mrs Merton proposition:
Susan Calman (daughter of Sir Kenneth Calman, regular panellist on BBC’s The News Quiz & BBC’s HIGNFY with frequent appearances on shows including BBC’s MacAulay & Co & BBC’s Matt Lucas Awards and with your own show aired on, you guessed it, BBC R4) what first attracted you to the British establishment?
this show is well past it’s prime, but it’s good news for the Yes campaign.
No need to get our knickers in a twist over this – HIGNFY pretty well attack & lampoon anyone and everyone. For every person who’s black-affronted & angered by condescending English media types, there’ll be timid unionists angry that the SNP has ’caused’ all this to be brought to the surface. It’s about us and here, not there and them. Winstone, Hislop & Merton (& the audience mostly) won’t have votes.
Ho hum, NEXT!
Who exactly do the English like? Not the French, or Germans, or Americans. The Spanish, according to them are a bunch of lazy people who spend half their day sleeping, The Italians are corrupt. Indeed the whole zonophobic tone of English newspapers and programmes such as HIGNFY and the News Quiz is pathetic and deeply unfunny. And if I hear another so-called joke about the Scots not eating fruit and veg and their main dietary supplement being deep fried mars bars, I think I’ll shoot myself. Or at least I would but I haven’t got a gun!
And the Scots who go down to England and perpetuate this nonsense really have to take a long look at themselves and think about who they’re hurting. Certainly as soon as they stop doing such jokes the BBC / English producers will drop them like a hot potato. Of course to me today’s Scottish cringe started with Connelly’s “wee pretendy parliament” comment. He does hate himself doesn’t he?
Their behaviour is surely an indication of their underlying feeling of insecurity?
Way back in the mists of my time – must have been some psychology lecture “to broaden our minds”- i recall it being explained that the response of fellow tribesmen to stand laughing when one of them is taken by a crocodile is not an expression of amusement but of fear and insecurity.
Hislop’s mother is Scots. “Honour thy father and mother”, or some such words.
They grudgingly acknowledge Portugal as their oldest ally, in a condescending sort of way. I don’t know if that means they actually like the Portuguese.
Don’t have time to listen to this as I am heading out the door.
Angus Robertson V Willie Bain on Sky. Angus Robertson linked to this on his twitter feed, posting the link here for you to listen to.
http://audioboo.fm/boos/1354150-hear-hear-episode-1-scottish-independence
I Hislop has Scottish ancestry Grandfather or G.Grandfather from Ayr I think, though the spelling of the name then was Hyslop that would be before they became metropolitan of course
Their behaviour is surely an indication of their underlying feeling of insecurity?
I believe it’s called projection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection
On this side of the border, Stockholm Syndrome might be appropriate? For BT that is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome
Iain says: @ 2.30 pm
It must be in the “lets be inferior” genes and make money out of it. Sad that such a short sighted person can be such a regular guest on our public funded broadcaster!
Come 18/09/2014 the Independent people of Scotland will wish her well on the train south to a country she seems to adore…good riddance.
Anyhoo, if something like this can be scheduled into prime time say once a week right up to the referendum that would be brilliant.
Ian Hislop didn’t join in either as he’s half Scottish his dad was a Scot he was an engineer a graduate from Glasgow university, it was the bbc doing it’s thing trying to knock the idea of independence but without doing it overtly
“Ian Hislop didn’t join in either”
He certainly did. He came out with the line about Alex Salmond being “King”. (He also said that he was a Unionist.)
I’ve just watched it and have moved HIGNFY from my ‘Pish List’ to the new category of ‘Twat TV’. Contributions to broadcasting by the likes of Calman, MacAuley, Andy Nicol etc will also be recategorised.
How stupid would you have to be, to be Scottish and want to continue a union with a country of people that only want to take the piss out of you and then tell you to bugger off.
You’d have to be quite stupid to believe the whole country felt that way, rather than an unrepresentative selection of one of its cities.
it was the bbc doing it’s thing trying to knock the idea of independence but without doing it overtly
That’s the thing that bothers me more than the borderline racist nonsense. Independence itself is presented as an inherently comical idea.
As the Gandhi quote at the top of the page tells us, this is all part of the process….
Ach…it didn’t bother me that much. This is London after all, and it lives in its own bubble.
For the ‘No’ camp, it certainly doesn’t help them. This is the 2nd show where ‘Let’s ask the audience what we think of the Scots’, and most of them stick their hands in the air as to telling the Scots ‘we don’t like you / go away!’ (the other show was Question Time not that long ago).
Point is… if they keep this sort of behaviour up, then those on the fence, may just go ‘f*** it. If that’s what they believe, then maybe we are better off going it alone.’
Certainly does no harm to the ‘Yes’ camp!
It’s interesting because I love Monty Python. They’re also posh Cambridge toffs from the South of England. But when they take the piss out of Scotland, it’s funny. When Andy Murray made the Wimbledon final, I dug up the sci fi sketch again, having not watched it for years, just to post as a “last laugh” to English friends on FB (It’s the one where a blancmange from Andromeda goes around turning everyone into Scotsmen so they can win Wimbledon).
I did wonder, with my new status as independence supporting SNP member, whether I’d find it offensive. And there are lines in it which are certainly borderline offensive. But I don’t care because I still find it really funny. I also love Michael Palin doing outrageously stereotyped Scots characters (the Glaswegian in a bunnet pretending to be Louis XIV always has me in stitches.
So I’m wondering what the difference is with “comedians” in England now? Python always felt like “British humour” because it took the piss out of everyone in Britain equally, including frothing at the mouth Tories, characters like Mrs Niggerbaiter and the like. So perhaps when they do Scotland, it just feels like being included as part of “us” not “they”? Or perhaps it’s just that it’s funny and was satirising stereotypes as much as creating them?
But somehow, over the past few decades, those in England appear to have lost any sense at all that there may be things that are funny or bad about them. It’s all others, and frequently nasty, racist, stereotyping of others. Not funny, not satire – just offensive. BBC Scotlandshire doesn’t publish “satire” which just says “won’t it be great to get rid of those whinging English; aren’t they stupid, the stupid English”. It wouldn’t be funny if they did, and would invariably be used to prove how racist and anti-English the Scots are! But I’ve been on edge watching stuff like HIGNFY recently, as this seemed wholly inevitable. We had the same level of “humour” with that Steve Bell “go fuck themselves” cartoon.
btw, for anyone who hasn’t seen the sci fi sketch and wants to, it’s a whole half hour programme long and can by found in 3 parts on You Tube. I’d be interested to know if anyone else who’s seen it finds it offensive or just funny.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1sYgknWGSA
Must confess, I don’t mind the HIGNFY too much; they set out to be irreverent, and often raise a chuckle near knuckle by doing so. When it’s your turn in the spotlight, best grit the teeth, knowing it will pass.
There is a line to be drawn however. I’m prepared to cut HIGNFY some slack for the odd rogue missile heading our way which we don’t find very funny, largely because a rogue missile is all it is. It’s a world away from the toe curling and unfunny programs like the R4 News Quiz or heaven help us, the Now Show. Make me laugh, and I’ll endure a bit of ridicule without taking offense. Why not? We can often give as good as we get anyway. But force me to listen to barrels being scraped and call it comedy, and comedy at my expense no less, and you’re already disrespecting me before you’ve even said a word.
That’s my personal default setting anyway.
But then, of course, you spoil it. I’m reminded about the one way traffic, such as Andy Murray being vilified for his ‘anybody but England’ remark, and at once, when the joke is at your expense, you remind me that we’re not really equals, are we? We’re just here on sufferance and best not forget it eh?
It was meant to be funny….and it was, so I’m not going to take offense: I’ll be looking forward to Frankie Boyle and Gerry Sadowitch being rehabilitated by the Beeb though
You would also have to be quite stupid not to understand a simple sentence.
Cath, once upon a time my family was on holiday, staying with an aunt, uncle and cousins in deepest East Anglia. We, the teenaged cousins, watched Monty Python on TV. The grown-ups (my parents, aunt and uncle) watched too, but didn’t get it. It was universally condemned as rubbish. Then a sketch came on about a Scottish poet whose entire output consisted of poetic begging letters trying to “borrow” money from his patrons, which he’d never pay back. Well, my Scottish mother near peed herself laughing from start to finish while my English father, his sister and her husband just glowered at her for her seeming betrayal of old fogey solidarity.
I agree with you. There was nothing malicious about Monty Python. They were equal opportunity lampooners.
Gosh, sorry Rev – didn’t mean for that link to appear as a large screen shot image. Feel free to remove it!
Have edited. The trick with YouTube links is to remove the “http://”.
No, leave it. I’m going out in half an hour, but I want to watch it later. I never liked Monty Python at the time but I’m prepared to believe I might have been wrong.
Aw, Rev, spoilsport…..
Whilst i agree with the comments here, what really bugs me about the BBC is the so called impartiality of their news department, such as the when the rubbish spouted by George Osborne the other day, i heard no mention from them of the expert information put out in favour of monetary union by Professor David Blanchflower.
Not that I’m surprised!
@jimmitchell
They interviewed D Blanchflower and ran it on radio at least twice, I think. (Unless I misunderstand your point and you mean it didn’r run more widely within BBC programming?)
On Monty Python their producer/director was Scottish. This sketch, not on Scotland, but on tennis …….
If one of his diary entries from 1977 still holds, Michael Palin would be a yes vote.
I knew I always liked the guy for some reason. Very civilized fellow. 😉
Watched this with interest and it forms a pattern of disdain manifest since the SNP government assumed power and particularly since the announcement of the referendum date. A couple of points.
Oh come on darling where is your sense of humour – only poking fun – it is a satirical programme anyway with many targets – why are the Scotch getting so touchy. Lighten up. Chill – only some playful teasing
The answer – a people seeking to rediscover their identity and being given the opportunity to assume once again their nationhood is a serious matter, which most Scots see seriously. To experience the contempt and the reduction exhibited by Hislop in particular is deeply wounding. Imagine if he had tried that discussing Indian independence in 1947 –
Would the Indians have thought it playful teasing? Not likely? Would it have been OK in 1947 to attack Indians as beggars ( tramps) who eat chapatis ( Mars bars )? who only export jute ( tartan ). Hislop would be the first in line to abhor such remarks as horrific, racist, stereotyping. But somehow it is OK for him to leave his liberal credentials at the door when talking about Scottish Independence not Indian, courtesy of the State broadcaster.
No, fun is fun and we need to be able to laugh at ourselves but this was a reduction designed to humiliate for the home and studio audience who chimed in as a willing mob. Remember the Question Time moment recently when the English audience bayed in agreement at the sugestion of nuclear waste dumping – you see what I mean about patterns.
However I see hope in this for the campaign because it is a jarring confirmation of something we aldeady know in our hearts and in our heads that the English population could not care less about Scotland or its people – they want rid of us from the Union ( as the straw poll on the programme shows ). But they have to swallow the “inconvenient truth” that oil, Scotland’s oil is bankrolling the Union State, so perversly they want to keep us part of a Union for what we can hand over to them –
and the irritation this causes has to be an explanation for the conduct of programmes such as this.
BY THE WAY I WILL BE ON THE MARCH FOR FAIR BROASDCASTING ON MAY 18th – MAKE SURE YOU ARE
Watched this with interest and it forms a pattern of disdain manifest since the SNP government assumed power and particularly since the announcement of the referendum date. A couple of points.
Oh come on darling where is your sense of humour – only poking fun – it is a satirical programme anyway with many targets – why are the Scotch getting so touchy. Lighten up. Chill – only some playful teasing
The answer – a people seeking to rediscover their identity and being given the opportunity to assume once again their nationhood is a serious matter, which most Scots see seriously. To experience the contempt and the reduction exhibited by Hislop in particular is deeply wounding. Imagine if he had tried that discussing Indian independence in 1947 –
Would the Indians have thought it playful teasing? Not likely? Would it have been OK in 1947 to attack Indians as beggars ( tramps) who eat chapatis ( Mars bars )? who only export jute ( tartan ). Hislop would be the first in line to abhor such remarks as horrific, racist, stereotyping. But somehow it is OK for him to leave his liberal credentials at the door when talking about Scottish Independence not Indian, courtesy of the State broadcaster.
No, fun is fun and we need to be able to laugh at ourselves but this was a reduction designed to humiliate for the home and studio audience who chimed in as a willing mob. Remember the Question Time moment recently when the English audience bayed in agreement at the sugestion of nuclear waste dumping – you see what I mean about patterns.
However I see hope in this for the campaign because it is a jarring confirmation of something we aldeady know in our hearts and in our heads that the majority of the English population could not care less about Scotland or its people – they want rid of us from the Union ( as the show of hands on the programme shows ).
But they have to swallow the “inconvenient truth” that oil, Scotland’s oil is bankrolling the Union State, so perversly they want to keep us part of a Union for what we can hand over to them -and the irritation this causes has to be an explanation for the conduct of programmes such as this.
BY THE WAY I WILL BE ON THE MARCH FOR FAIR BROADCASTING ON MAY 18th – MAKE SURE YOU ARE!!
Chill Ron. It’s not worth getting worked up about. These remarks are not representative of English opinion. The audience is simply enjoying playing to a Pub Landlord caricature of itself on a Friday night out. Drink may well have been taken. Clearly the spectacle does not play well in Scotland, which is all to the good.
“Would the Indians have thought it playful teasing? Not likely? Would it have been OK in 1947 to attack Indians as beggars ( tramps) who eat chapatis ( Mars bars )? who only export jute ( tartan ). Hislop would be the first in line to abhor such remarks as horrific, racist, stereotyping.”
He would abhor them now. Had be been doing HIGNFY in 1947, he’d have been spouting such views quite happily and dismissing and ridiculing Ghandi as as a “half-naked fakir”, just as Winston Churchill did.
You think any leaders and people going for independence ever had it any different from their establishment masters?
There are problems with the TV, not least BBC Scotland pretty much using the BT daily briefing as their programme guide but the odd stray comedic remark isn’t one of them. Both Ed and Cameron get it in the neck every week and stereotypes are used for every passing nation and regions of England come to think of it. Keep your powder dry and your sense of humour intact. There are battles to be fought but this isn’t one of them. As I said above, it is BT that should be worried and complaining not us.
He certainly did. He came out with the line about Alex Salmond being “King”. (He also said that he was a Unionist.)
He also came out with the line regarding Osborne on currency: “It’s a bit of a threat.”, straightaway getting to the crux of the question.
As for being a Unionist, well, it’s still possible to be honourable and be a Unionist.
His mockery of Salmond is fair game. Salmond’s a politician and therefore open to any satirical criticism coming his way.
Or does that only apply when it’s politicians other than Scots politicians?
Exactly!
I missed HIGNFY last night, but saw the fuss folk were making on Twitter so had a quick look on the iPlayer. I was distinctly underwhelmed, although perhaps I would have felt differently if I’d been watching it without expectations. I found Jimmy Carr’s dig on 10 O’Clock Live much worse (which I was only watching to see if it had become funny yet – apparently not).
However, while it didn’t offend me, it did confirm what I already knew about the metropolitan elite’s view of Scotland. The VT with the highland dancing – can you imagine an English story being portrayed with morris dancers? The English view of Scotland is stuck in the 1960s with the White Heather Club, “och aye the noo” and the likes. The idea that we’re “together” with these people – better or not – is just utterly ridiculous. We’re not “us”, we’re “them”. The Jocks. The sweaties. The subsidy junkies. We’re a minority to these people, and like any minority, there are those who have found the easiest way to get along is to go along with it. But that doesn’t make it right or okay.
It’s really quite sad for unionists that they are so desperate to remain part of a club that doesn’t really want them. It’s totally undignified. It’s time they grew some backbone.
HIGNFY mocks folk of all nationalities and political slants. Having watched the show and listen to the news quiz podcast today, I think the concern that the Yes side should have is how easy it is to make fun of their policy decisions.
The currency debate this week has not been good for the credibility of Yes. Salmond has generally had good press nationally, but there is a strengthening narrative that he is ‘making it up as he goes along’. I can’t see how this is positive for the Yes vote, an undecided is not going to be attracted by this ridiculing.
OT but yesterday’s YouGov following the same trend. Labour VI falling in both Scotland and UK wide. Not good for Better Together on top of No down 5-6% since October 2012 and yes up 3-4%.
The effect of George’s intervention should be visible soon; likely for BT to take further hits. Tory attacks Scotland and Labour join in. Ooch.
For those commenters above who say that this is not representative of the wider English population, I’m sorry but it absolutely is. I live in England (not out of choice) and in the Midlands which is very much not London but I have to put up with borderline racist condescension on a pretty regular basis.
The other week, a colleague of mine thought that it would be good to share an amusing anecdote of her boyfriend’s- he apparently was having problems understanding emails from his branches in Glasgow because they had this strange habit of inserting the word “wee” into sentences. After a bit of research he found that it apparently meant “small”. Not a hint of joking, completely straight faced patronising- her implication was clear that those strange Scotch couldn’t even use the English language properly.
Before living in England I was of the “not sure if we can go it alone, proper autonomy would be a good compromise” opinion. I also had a vague notion of being British. Living her has cemented my identity of an independence seeking Scot. The quicker we can be free of the control of a truly xenophobic nation, the better. Just hope I can get a job north of the border in time to vote!
@mato21
Ian Hislop’s paternal grandfather David Murdoch Hislop served with the ninth Highland Light Infantry during the First World War. His great-great-great grandfather Murdo Matheson, was a soldier who served with the 78th Regiment the Seaforth Highlanders and among British soldiers sent to rest Cape Town and Southern Africa from Dutch control in 1795. Murdo was originally from the Isle of Lewis in the Outer Hebrides.
“As for being a Unionist, well, it’s still possible to be honourable and be a Unionist.”
I didn’t say it wasn’t.
As for being a Unionist, well, it’s still possible to be honourable and be a Unionist.”
I didn’t say it wasn’t.
I struggle to understand that statement.
In my opinion. it’s like a Vichy Frenchman trying to defend himself to a resistance fighter.
Comedy? More like perception management. Most current BBC comedy, appears to be re-hashed Pythons. They were all a bit posh, but at least they were also equal opportunity satirists. Most often ridiculing a system that was undergoing the early shocks of losing the colonies, and a people struggling to come to terms with internal racism (No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish). I’ve heard a bit of Absolutely re-hashed as well, but none of the new stuff is, well, original.
I gave the Beeb up completely, a while back. Call me paranoid, but brand integrity is a powerful driver of successful business practice.
Gfaetheblock – There is no contradiction in stating that Scotland’s economy has not been helped by the London-centric management of the pound, but that it would be the only sensible currency to adopt. At least for a transitional period. Doing anything else would probably mean an end to the pound, which you must agree is far from healthy at prescent.
Vote Yes in 2014.
Karamu says:
27 April, 2013 at 6:44 pm
For those commenters above who say that this is not representative of the wider English population, I’m sorry but it absolutely is. I live in England (not out of choice) and in the Midlands which is very much not London but I have to put up with borderline racist condescension on a pretty regular basis.
I think we need to avoid getting into the mindset that all English people hate and despise Scotland and the Scots. Most of us have enough English relatives and friends to know that that is not true. I know a number of English people living in Scotland who will vote “Yes” with enthusiasm. Sadly, too many South of the Border do not understand what is going on here. They are fed nonsense by their dreadful media, feel that they are being personally rejected and react negatively. We have to be tolerant of that.
“The currency debate this week has not been good for the credibility of Yes. Salmond has generally had good press nationally, but there is a strengthening narrative that he is ‘making it up as he goes along’. I can’t see how this is positive for the Yes vote, an undecided is not going to be attracted by this ridiculing.”
It may seem that way. And I understand how important perceptions are.
But the fact is, it’s an utterly wrong perception. The NO campaign love to make it all about Salmond and the SNP, and delight in the narrative that they’re “making it up as they go along” and “haven’t thought it through”.
But the proposal for a currency zone doesn’t come from Salmond or the SNP. In fact Salmond is on record saying Sterling is a millstone round our necks, and on record saying he doesn’t agree with all SNP policy. The Sterling Zone idea comes from the Scottish Government’s fiscal commission. They are wholly independent, and international, made up of 2 Nobel Prize winners (Joseph Stiglitz being one). They were tasked to look at Scotland and the UK and come up with the optimal solution for a newly independent Scotland and rUK, and have written a 200-odd page report concluding a Sterling Zone is the optimal option for both.
That is where the Sterling Zone idea comes from, not Salmond.
I’d guess London bubble media folks have no idea about this at all and have bought into the media narrative that it’s all “Salmond making it up as he goes along”. My guess is, with 18 months to go that will come back and bite them on the arse. It’s not just Salmond and Scotland they’re denigrating but those economists too, and the whole process.
Of course, most people in Scotland – and virtually all outside Scotland – will accept the media narrative. But those with a real interest, including business people and economists here, will be paying attention. If the referendum was tomorrow I’m sure BT would win on their scaremongering and false narratives. With 18 months, I’m not so sure. Arrogance can be a huge hindrance.
Works for me. The more they stick the boot in using casual racism the more they stereotype themselves and better together. Ideal line up would include Kelvin, Boris and both Clarkson and Paxman on panels. Perhaps a guest spot for Starkey? Then let them go off on one at prime time on 17th September next year. Independence 70%+ guaranteed. 🙂
Gfaetheblock
As to Salmond “making up as he goes along” you are correct, that is what the Press wants you to think, despite it being based on policy papers agreed by a number of folk.
This is going to be a highly “play the man not the ball” fight
I voiced my contempt of the attitude of metrocentric England towards Scotland after the HIGNFY broadcast last night over in the “fear over pension fearbomb feared”article, and it hasn’t changed since then.
Though dated and now discredited, this kind of English ‘humour’ – xenophobic, racist or semi-racist, stereotypical – still clings on in many parts of England. This ‘humour’ is based on laughing at ‘them’, the ‘other’; the ‘tight’ Jocks, the ‘stupid’ Paddies; the Frogs, the Krauts, the Chinks’ the Coons, etc. because they’re not one of ‘us’. Imperialism and Empire has a lot to do with this of course; the sense of superiority, the upper classes, the privileges bestowed.
Those sneering relics of a bygone age are not aware that they are in for a hell of a shock on the morning of 19/9/14 when they wake up to discover that their United Kingdom isn’t united anymore and that they will soon be living in the pathetic rUK, or whatever they want to call it. Fuck’em, only another 500+ days and then we’re taking our country back.
They would all have to be broadcast from separate locations, as you couldn’t get that much ego in one building, Macart. Macart. Wakey, wakey there. 🙂
When Ian the munchkin opined that we ‘didn’t know what we wanted’ I screamed various imprecations at the TV and switched off before I caused damage.
I almost splashed on the woad, strapped on a kilt a kilt and screamed ‘we want our Freeeeeeeeeeedom’
What was Ray Winstone meant to be doing dressed up like Toad of Toad Hall, masquerading as a cockney John Bull and talking pearly king cockney only missing out the ryhming slang. We know he can speak in a fairly educated manner.
When I calmed down I realised it was probably an attempt at a wind up and it succeeded as far as I was concerned.
Hopefully it garnered a few thousand more ‘Yes’ votes.
Grrrrrrh!
“Those sneering relics of a bygone age”
It’s funny. I was in a museum today with loads of old relics of empire and Britain. At one point there was a photo wall of ex-pupils from the local school which included some Westminster worthies. It genuinely felt like looking at the past, “Oh man, those days before independence when a handful of select, educated, Scots sucked up to the London establishment and sold Scotland out”. I had to pull myself up to remember that bit wasn’t a museum past but still our current reality. It just felt so utterly wrong, outdated and colonial. Those are the people on the NO side. The idea anyone else might vote to keep it that way is just utterly depressing.
@CameronB
Olympic stadium, one night only? Bound to be enough room there and the doorways are big enough to accommodate the heads. 😀
1 wee quotation for you
“The Englishman is a rabid nationalist. They are perhaps the most nationalist people in the world…When you hear the English talk of this war you sometimes almost want them to lose it to show them how things are. They have the greatest contempt for the continent in general and for the French in particular…England first. This slogan is taken for granted by the English people as a whole. To lose their empire would be the worst possible humiliation”.
Adolf (Ralf) Milliband
Father of Ed and David
Doug Daniels
Can you imagine an English story being portrayed with morris dancers?
—————
Funnily enough, Doug, that’s what I first thought of too. I smile wryly as I write this. That’s why I wasn’t too bothered with sketch from Hislop and Co. I do watch this show, and find it really funny. Most of the time, it is rather brutal when it comes to politics. If it’s not the French, it’s the Germans. If it’s not the Koreans, its the Americans. It was just our turn last night.
If this is London’s perception of Scotland, then so be it. Highland dancing, tartan, whisky, etc. If that’s what they see, then leave them to that. If we think of images of England, it would be Morris dancing, green fields, white cliffs, warm beer.
I’m not going to get wound up about it. Personally, at least Hislop did say one thing that let the cat out of the bag …that Osborne was making a veiled threat.
But then again …is this part of the big plan to anger the Scots – to have the Tory Wideboy come up to Scotland, and dictate to us once again. Is this idea, so that we are pushed more towards Independence. After all …nothing riles Scotland more …than a threat …and from a Tory too!!!
2nd one
The French want no-one to be their superior. The English want inferiors. The Frenchman constantly raises his eyes above him with anxiety. The Englishman lowers his beneath him with satisfaction.
Alexis de Tocqueville
Nationality: French
Born: July 29, 1805
Died: April 16, 1859
@Graeme Purves
I wasn’t saying that the English hate us but that they treat us with condescension at best. As noted above though it is not only us but anyone who isn’t English.
I heard an English colleague the other day ask an Irish (Republic of) colleague, after hearing that he had lived in Asia for many years, how long he had been “back in the UK”…. The Irishman was noticeably taken aback but the Englishmen should no inclining of even realising the implications of what he had said.
Cath,
But the proposal for a currency zone doesn’t come from Salmond or the SNP. In fact Salmond is on record saying Sterling is a millstone round our necks.
———————
For me personally, I would like us to have our own currency, just as Margo said in the Parliament. Maybe 5 years after the referendum.
I think if we all sat down, and talked about the SNP policies, I think we would all find, that we had different opinions and probably disagreements over some of the policies.
For me, I would rent out Faslane for the submarines to the rUK if it brought in extra money to help set us up. Some folk might not agree with that, but for me, if it brings in an extra billion or two a year that could pay for students or help OAPs, then its something I would consider. Just as long as we knew what the rUK were doing there ie not burying crap deep underground. It would be just for Submarines …nothing else!!!
At the end of the day, I will vote SNP until we get Independence …after that, well…we just wait and see. It will interesting to see what ALL the parties will offer post indy. This time though, the Scottish Labour, Libs and Tories will have no place to hide. This time, they WOULD answer to the people, not their London masters.
I would say that many English are frightened at the prospect of Scottish Independence. Partly to do with the future and a diminished England up against (not within) the EU, and partly to do with a cosy accessible continuous history that would be ‘destroyed’ by the split. All those pioneers and inventors from Scotland would have to be called Scottish instead of British. For too long millions of people in Britain have been living in the past, wallowing in distant glories that is propped up by the Establishment (including the BBC). Scotland, up until very recently, was a place that could be comfortably forgotten about because it was a ‘constant’ in the British State like the BBC and the Queen. Funnily enough London is closer to six European capitals than it is to Edinburgh!
The English version of the MSM and the BBC have not informed the citizens of England about the arguments of Scottish Independence. It’s the uppity Jocks and all they want is more English taxpayers money and Dictator Salmond is the pied piper leading the good Jocks astray with his lies. Three categories that English people fall into concerning Scottish Independence are: 1 deeply frightened (mostly Northern Labour voters who are also sympathetic); 2 not bothered, mildly curious or just confused (Southerners) and 3 aggressive and xenophobic who would close the Scottish Parliament in an instant (BNP/UKIP/Tory voters).
For me the Sterling Zone would be interim until our own currency is launched, the ‘Merk’. I would be happy with that.
On principle I always believed that in this era of globilisation as much power as possible should be devolved and that as a historic nation Scotland and its people should have the right to self determination.
We must get out and speak to ordinary voters as the BBC and print media controlled outside Scotland will never support Scotland’s best interests.
Following the down playing of the “dirty money”donation I won’t hold my breath that the MSM / BBC will make much of the HIGNFY audience or the revalation that the No campaign is using illegal text messaging.
http://newsnetscotland.com/index.php/scottish-news/7276-anger-at-text-stunt-as-better-together-acquires-personal-mobile-phone-info
Could I add, not having seen HINIFY yet, but in the same vein, my conversion came sometime in the mid-70’s.
The TV was on one night and a comedy sitcom show, Man about the House, London centric, middle class was burbling in the background.
Some joke was made, the punchline being, “the Scots all live in caves”. I suddenly became aware of what had been said. Until then, I had been completely non-political. I got out the phone book and got onto BBC, Queen Margaret Dr. Nothing to do with us. Next day, phoned the race relations board. Bugger off, Jocks are not an ethnic minority said a South Asian voice. Wrote a letter, and I’m crap at writing, to the BBC high heid yins, got a nice calming reply which said nothing. So, that’s my story. So, it aint new.
BTW, as someone said above, I also had a call from a political survey a couple of nights ago. Said they will email me the outcome when it’s ready. I recon the guy was probably sick of hearing SNP to every question. A first for me. Said they might call again.
@Rev.
Away back at the start of the comments regarding Calman you used the expression
‘Coo’.
Calman = the Dove. (Gaelic)
Do I get a prize?
I didn’t get a prize for the Lloyd Cole line a few days ago.
@wee folding bike.
Send the Yes campaign fifty quid; they’ll send you back a wee box of tartan chocolate.
If scots are the subject of such scorn and ridicule at present, can you imagine the day after a no vote in 2014? The entire nation would be a complete laughing stock, not too poor, not too wee, but definitely too feart and too stupid. We cannot allow that to happen.
@ karamu, where abouts in the Midlands do you live? I’m also there.
Haven’t saw the HIGNFY programme, but agree with the posters who say that an insult to Scotland will only do harm to the No Campaign.
I have felt that the ‘Donorgate’ scandal as well as the ‘car crash interviews’ would help the ‘Yes’ campaign, but I wonder if the visits by Cameron then Osborne, as well as the insults from these Comedians, won’t help us more.
We have plenty of time to go before the polling stations open, so let them keep insulting Scotland, because if we win a couple of thousand votes each time, it would win us a hundred thousand YES votes, over the next 500 days, all because they don’t understand how the Scots feel about being treated with contempt by English toffs.
The BT people must be cringing every time they hear Scots being humiliated like this, but they know if they complain it will just bring the issue to the publics attention.
It’s all good for the Yes vote.
have I got news is getting pretty shite-Jeremy wassisname is a posh kid who only amuses us maybe once every three years.
Hislop may have supported Megrahi, though I would say it was Paul Foot, the excellent journalist now deceased as Private Eye couldn’t even be arsed reporting Megrahi’s release and barely mention anything about Scotland because it is an English centric the world revolves around London ty pe of mag nowadays though on the very odd occasion it is ok.
I bought Private Eye every fortnight since about ’82 but now…….I can’t really be arsed!
I think we need to be careful not to be overly sensitive about the jock bashing. I like Ian Hislop and to be fair he does mock everyone. (though I admit the audience ‘bugger off’ bit was completely unnecessary.
For me the famous QT nuclear waste dumping incident was far more insulting particularly since it is not a comedy programme and was so obviously set up by the BBC.
However, I agree with earlier comments they can’t have it both ways with their outrage at the ‘anyone but England’ t-shirts etc.
Anyhow, here’s a wee clip to cheer
http://youtu.be/TX9h558Tz1E
They’ve all got so up themselves but let them have their fun. Dont worry, the rhythm effect will soon reach its culmination point and swing backwards. You cant manipulate that or put any spin on it either, what goes around, comes around. We will be waving to them as we fly by – onwards and upwards. Meanwhile we just have to rise above it, remain positive and keep focused on our goals, doing what we can to keep getting the truth out there. Meanwhile, I dont think they care how rude or ignorant their behaviour is but it will come back to bite them!
I didn’t say it wasn’t.
Why mention it at all then other than to reinforce, by implication, that it made Hislop complicit with the panel hurling insults about the Scots?
“Juteman”
You need to get a sense of perspective dear fellow if you think that people believing in the Union are no better than those who collaborated with the Nazis in the Second World War.
That kind of belief makes certain of us Scots open to such ridicule as witnessed on HIGNFY.
As for comments such as “these people”, ” the Englishman is rabid nationalist” etc. Many of the comments made here sound like they could have come from Ray Winstone or a member of the HIGNFY audience who put their hand up – though I suspect many of them were joining in for a laugh.
Humour is in the eye of the beholder after all.
Angus says:
28 April, 2013 at 2:48 am
I bought Private Eye every fortnight since about ’82 but now…….I can’t really be arsed!
Private Eye is pretty stale, self-satisfied and lazy these days, rather like Hislop himself. It’s part of the old media and on the way out. The fact that it has made no serious attempt to go digital says it all really.
“Why mention it at all then”
Because someone said Hislop hadn’t joined in with that section, when he had.
Tobias Smollett says:
28 April, 2013 at 8:44 am
Many of the comments made here sound like they could have come from Ray Winstone or a member of the HIGNFY audience who put their hand up – though I suspect many of them were joining in for a laugh.
I don’t think that claim bears scrutiny. Few of the comments on this string are intemperate and suspicions based on no evidence don’t amount to much.
Tobias Smolett
As I posted the rabid nationalist quotation which seems to irk you so much, I suggest you look at the end of the post and see who said it originally.
It is ironic that you don’t seem to see the irony both in the post and in who originally said it.
Come to think of it Tobias Smollet, were you not on nodding terms with M. de Tocqueville
Wee shame.
This is extremely depressing. I used to love HIGNFY, but something happened in the past few years: it lost its satirical edge, and became a vapid variation of 8 Out of Ten Cats. Freaking Mock the Week has more satirical content at this point.
I can understand people thinking this is a case where we can’t get “too upset” (though frankly the idea that Scots “don’t know what they want” is insulting regardless of which side of the debate you’re on), but then, I’m frankly sick of having to grin and bear poisonous garbage like this. I’m extremely disappointed in Hislop, he should know better. Hunter didn’t join in because he has some perspective about being part of a marginalised minority – something Hislop and Merton certainly do not – and from what I’ve seen of him, he has a good head on his shoulders.
The thing is, this is just another example of how HIGNFY has been utterly compromised. I was aghast when I saw the episode that aired shortly after the Saville allegations, where it started with five minutes of Hislop explaining how “nobody knew! I swear, this was completely unexpected, and nobody anywhere in the history of the corporation had ANY IDEA about Saville’s predations!” in excruciating detail for the sole purpose of exonerating the BBC. Given the horrifying extent of what is clearly a massive cover-up that reaches all the way to the top of the government, HIGNFY has betrayed its original ideals of challenging and subverting the establishment – be it the press, media, government, etc – and has revealed itself to be no more than a puppet.
The argument that everyone’s “fair game” only applies if the joke is valid, in my opinion. The only place harmful stereotypes have in comedy is when those stereotypes are implicitly ridiculed – that wasn’t being done here. I despise the xenophobic jokes (usually given to the guest host to parrot) and the fact that this is indistinguishable to the sort of material thrown at the French, Germans, Italians and Americans suggests that the HIGNFY writers consider Scots to be a foreign country. Come next year, perhaps that’ll be the case for those who have a problem with Scottish independence.
The only way you can attempt to deal with this level of commentary, is simply to try really, really, really hard not to wet yourself or put your back out rolf-ing.
The thing is, I think he actually believes himself. 😉
Rev. I posted in wrong tab. This was meant for “Briefings Abroad”. Doh.
Because someone said Hislop hadn’t joined in with that section, when he had.
He didn’t join in with knocking the Scots though dear fellow which appeared to be the original point being made. Knocking Salmond is fair game for a satirical programme, whether we like it or not. And, as I stated before, Hislop hit the nail on the head regarding the intent of the Chancellor’s visit. So, job done then?
“Graeme Purves”
Few of the comments on this string are intemperate and suspicions based on no evidence don’t amount to much.
I respectfully suggest you learn to read then dear fellow. Then, you can lecture me on ‘suspicions’ and ‘evidence’.
Bugger the Panda
“As I posted the rabid nationalist quotation which seems to irk you so much…”
It didn’t irk me dear fellow. It merely piqued my curiousity that you would use such a quote to prove your, seemingly, subjective opinion of the English, irrespective of the author. It rather reinforces the point I was making.
No irony involved. Your intent was clear enough. 🙂
Tobias Smollett says:
28 April, 2013 at 12:48 pm
I respectfully suggest you learn to read then dear fellow. Then, you can lecture me on ‘suspicions’ and ‘evidence’.
I can read quite well and chose my words carefully. Mr. Smollett, on the other hand, appears to have difficultly with the distinction between “few” and “none”.
I’m not his “dear fellow”. I’m fairly certain I have never met the gentleman, either in this life or a previous one.
“This is extremely depressing. I used to love HIGNFY, but something happened in the past few years: it lost its satirical edge”
I think there is a bigger problem than this in the UK. The entire media and culture has become stale, old and tired. For example, novelists who were once young, cutting edge and radical, like Ian McEwan and Martin Amis are now aged figures of the establishment living in academic ivory towers. Which would be fine – I suppose that’s how radical young writers age. But they are still treated by the UK media establishment as somehow being still the “young and cutting edge” writers. There is nothing else coming up behind them to replace them in the genuine “young and radical” stakes.
I remember reading “Saturday” at the time of the Iraq marches and just being horrified about how smug, out of touch and frankly “scared and establishment” that book sounded, when there must have been a whole raft of other views that would have been far more honest.
I don’t believe for even a second there are not radical young voices out there – given the amount of creativity around things like UK Uncut and others there must be. Then there is Scotland. But those voices are not getting a look in. Instead, like HIGNFY, the UK appears to have totally stagnated, as if frozen in time somewhere in the 1990s.
I started to collect them a couple of years ago but then gave up when there was anti Scottish remarks on just about every panel show. They died down for a bit there but seem to be back to ‘normal’.
Stand ups are bad as well; peculiarly, particularly those with Scottish sounding names, Al Murray, Stewart Lee, Jimmy Carr, Michael MacIntyre, Kelvin McKenzie (OK I know that last one doesn’t actually realise he is a stand up 😉 ).
Anyway, here is some on my tube.
“or put your back out rolf-ing”
In the light of recent legal events, that’s quite an unfortunate typo.
I think there is a bigger problem than this in the UK. The entire media and culture has become stale, old and tired.
Oh, no doubt, Cath: I remember being raised on the likes of “Spitting Image,” “Rory Bremner,” “Drop the Dead Donkey,” “Yes, Minister” and “The Day Today” as a lad, which were downright vicious and merciless towards the (deserved) targets of their satire. What the hell happened? “The Thick of It” is the closest we get these days.
Week Ending. Little Blighty on the Down. (I nearly drowned in the bath listening to an episode of the latter, so hard was I laughing.)
Taranaich says:
28 April, 2013 at 6:15 pm
I think there is a bigger problem than this in the UK. The entire media and culture has become stale, old and tired.
“Oh, no doubt, Cath: I remember being raised on the likes of “Spitting Image,” “Rory Bremner,” “Drop the Dead Donkey,” “Yes, Minister” and “The Day Today” as a lad, which were downright vicious and merciless towards the (deserved) targets of their satire. What the hell happened? “The Thick of It” is the closest we get these days.”
Elected politicians, have to have thicker skins than others and that is the view of the European Court of Human Rights on this issue. If you want to stick your snout in the trough, then you have to be prepared to pay for it with vilification, and to be fair, most politicians seem to accept that.
However different threshold standards are applied to non-politicians and much more stringent ones to groups of people whether defined by religion, sexuality or nationality.
Thus the vitriolic abuse hurled daily at Alex Salmond has simply to be accepted despite it’s extreme nature and if Bremner’s new Scottish show does more of the same. as expected, so be it.
But, abuse levied at individuals or the Scots generally, are in entirely different categories to that.
Take comfort [1]: I would suggest that many many Scots will be thinking exactly the same as the majority of commentators here.
Take comfort [2]: There is plenty of time left for such pro-independence thinking to seep even further into the Scottish psyche.
Take comfort [3]: The pro-union media shows no sign of softening its anti-Scottish ranting; it will ultimately be self-defeating.
@Patrick Roden
I’m in Stourbridge, near Birmingham. It’s an OK place but not terribly enlightened in the wider world’s affairs…
I wonder if there were any Scots in the studio audience and just how the atmosphere made them feel?
I wonder that too, Macart. I’d love to think that sonsie lass in the bottom right of the last picture was either a bonnie Scot or a supportive English rose, though I could be distracted, what with her being so bathykolpian and all.
I’ve just received a response to my complaint to the BBC. It’s the usual sort, it doesn’t address any points I made, addresses points I didn’t make, says it doesn’t have to be balanced and is generally condescending. Looks like one of their standard “we’re great and you don’t matter” mass emails.
I am English, living in Scotland for 20 years now, and I may easily be out of touch , but a lot of this anti Scottish thing is not everywhere in England. I know of lots of folk that are jealous because in Scotland the parliament gives us some protection from the full ravages of tory policies. A lot of the stuff about Mars bars and Veg comes from the media. whenever, there are European health surveys Scotland usually does poorly in terms of diet and it is usually reported widely, so it is picked up as a stereotype. Not great but it is easy to see where it comes from.
And there is plenty of anti English quips and jibes constantly flying around facebook and such sights posted by the ~YES campaign supporters (some funny, some not so funny some outright offensive) And I genuinely believe that a lot of this ‘stuff you’, audience voting Scotland out etc is a real feeling of rejection. and the usual human nature response to hurt and rejection is to lash out. I think that is what is happening in instances like this. And yes as someone stated in an earlier post I think the general consensus is that Scotland is going to leave the UK (or wants to ).
Being raised in England, looking back I notice how many English genuinely have no real concept of how strong many scots (even unionists) still see themselves as a distinctly separate nation and race. So I think there is a genuine ‘why do they want to leave? whats wrong with us? so you think you are better than us? well f..k you then…’ train of thought. ok not great enlightened thinking, but neither is it some major anti Scots conspiracy I think its just the tribal structure of much of human nature and psyche ( and there is plenty of tribalism alive and kicking in Scotland). just a few thoughts and observations.
I’m a long time reader and PE subscriber, they don’t accept pro Scottish letters or articles as I’ve tried when they publish this type of crap, its not often but its often similar(tramps,fat,dying young,ginger,tartan,Brigadoon blah blah ).
Hyslop is a pro UK type, which he is entitled to be. English Public schoolboys, who’d be one …. they wouldn’t say it to my face in the boozer so I don’t lose any sleep over it.
Having just returned from 3 days in Suffolk, I think JC hits the nail on the head. I lost count of the number of the times I was asked in tones of hurt bewilderment whether Scotland is really going to vote for independence.
I saw the repeat of this tonight (we I saw about 5 mins of it, before switching the telly off)
It is just a great example of the kind of bullshite liberalism that says that it is Ok to be derisive towards some groups, but that you must be respectful towards others. Imagine if it had been “The Polish should bugger off”
Like other posters above me I noticed how R.D Hunter did not join in, and I think he even looked somewhat uncomfortable. I wonder why…