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Wings Over Scotland


Gordon Brown Trousers

Posted on February 18, 2014 by

A second Unionist politician in a week doesn’t want to face STV’s questions.

What is it with cowardly Chancellors at the moment?

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133 to “Gordon Brown Trousers”

  1. Doug Daniel says:

    “Slightly older audience” – bit of deadpan from Claire Stewart there at the start!

  2. Murray McCallum says:

    That’s no way to treat, or speak to, the man that saved the world.

    He was there to talk about pensions, though not about his idea to tax them more than ever before.

  3. Tasmanian says:

    Is that a South Park character on the banner at the beginning?

  4. twenty14 says:

    Should there not be an apostrophe s after Gordon

  5. Fiona says:

    Is that the “safety” of the UK state pension which has just robbed millions of the benefits they have paid for all their working lives by raising the retirement age?

    I have no expectation that there will be a state pension in the future. The plan has not changed. Michael Portillo said that the state pension would be “nugatory” in the next century, in a speech he made in 1993.

    I am supposed to vote no because of a fear about pensions????

  6. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    The way Gordon finished that interview wiped out any benefit he may have had from it. That is what people will remember.

    But it the fact hat he was able to spout his distortions all hinges from the massive degree of misinformation – some of it wilful – that many people in Scotland have swallowed about our actual economic position.

    We have nearly all progressive votes behind us now. We have to persuade a majority of the rest of people in Scotland that we are comfortably self supporting and we win. That is it. It was so obvious on the debate from Kelso tonight that most of our opposition came from people with a deep degree of ignorance of our economy. It was also unfortunate that Stewart Hosie was subjected to a sustained series of attacks towards the end of the programme and was given no time to answer back.

    I do believe we have to expose people to how stupid many of their opinions actually are.

  7. gordoz says:

    Much respected former chancer, sorry failed chancellor ? Statesman ?

    Brown was a major failure and Blairite lets not forget that folks.

  8. Kenny Ritchie says:

    As Frankie Boyle quite rightly stated about Gordon Brown. He looks like a sad face that someone has drawn onto their scrotum.

  9. liz says:

    At least it was stv & therefore wont be threatened with copyright.

    I think one of the best things to happen this week was Bernard Ponsonby being snubbed by Gideon – that wont be forgotten for a while.

    Broon’s a lying disgrace.

  10. gordoz says:

    Brown report just repeated on STV tonight –

  11. Heather McLean says:

    Gordon Brown needs to keep his mouth shut! He’s the man who raided pension funds in 2006!! The hypocrisy of this man knows no bounds!

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1531448/Browns-raid-on-pensions-costs-Britain-100-billion.html

    People in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones!

  12. Murray McCallum says:

    Gordon Brown May 5 2007, speech at the CBI annual dinner

    “Exactly 10 years ago when I first spoke to you as Chancellor, the country had spent a whole era wrestling with inflation and volatility and quite frankly the havoc stop go visited on long term investment.

    Thinking back to my words to you then, I set out my pledge to make stability the central pillar of my economic and business policy.

    This was three months before the global financial crisis began and four months later customers were queueing outside branches of Northern Rock.

    Gordon Brown had a go at setting and regulating UK financial policy. We are still living with the repercussions. Why are people listening to his advice – maybe to do the opposite of what he suggests?

  13. Brian Powell says:

    I read only 15% of old people support Independence so it seems a bit cruel to frighten them about pensions, especially as it’s a lie.
    More than a bit heartless, Mr Brown.

  14. joe kane says:

    I can’t imagine the embarrassing establishment sycophants at BBC Scotland doing what the lowly regional STV journalists are doing except if it concerned important figures on the pro-independence side, but that goes without saying.

    Well done STV for broadcasting the Brown interview termination when it could so easily have ended up on the cutting room floor.

  15. Greannach says:

    At least Brown has stopped that weird thing of over-smiling at inappropriate times because he had seen humans smiling but didn’t realise they smile for a reason, not just to stretch facial muscles. Is anybody listening to him these days? Is he still an MP?

  16. Calum Craig says:

    Danny Alexander is in Holyrood tomorrow? That should be interesting!

  17. MajorBloodnok says:

    Is that not the second time they’ve run away from STV in less than a week? Bernard Ponsonby still won’t be pleased.

  18. Jill P says:

    I wish politicians would answer the questions they are asked.(Fat chance)

  19. Peter Macbeastie says:

    Call me daft if you wish, but I would have thought a man once at the forefront of the self proclaimed Mother of Parliaments would be slightly better at dealing with questions from journalists.

    Could it just be the case that no matter how good they are they can’t justify stupidity? Or is it just that they’re more used to BBC sycophants ‘asking the right bloody questions when they’re told what the right bloody questions are?’

    Very good of the esteemed former PM to stick his head above the parapet. I get a glorious thought of the possibly made up tale of the garrison Commander at Ruthven Barracks when the Jacobites were moving southwards in 1745, on asking his men why on earth they were crouching behind the walls when the enemy had nothing more than small arms, uttered the possibly false famous last words as he stood in full view of enemy soldiers… ‘they couldn’t hit a barn door from ther….’

    Failing that, could he possibly have a word with current incumbent in his former office to find his balls and face up to the concept that he’s perhaps looking a bit cowardly dancing around as though he doesn’t need to face Alex Salmond?

  20. liz says:

    Hope this is not O/T but do you think the BBC will be able to maintain this facade?

    On Peter Bell’s blog there is a headline from C4 with Barossa trying to justify himself by saying that he is worried that the EU will fragment if Scotland votes Yes.

    I bet we never knew we were that powerful.

    When the US is starting to citicise the UK gov’s stance – how long will it last?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/eamonnfingleton/2014/02/18/as-scotland-mulls-independence-a-stupid-london-plays-it-dirty/

  21. joe kane says:

    It looks like the independence referendum is opening up a space for STV journalists to run amok like demented Terminators amongst fleshy politician humanoids. Their seeming sudden self-awareness as the Fourth Estate is awesome to observe, from a safe distance.

  22. HandandShrimp says:

    That is the first time I have seen Gordon for ages. He has turned seriously grey. Bit taken aback really.

  23. bunter says:

    STV clearly don’t ask the right questions and are therefore a danger to the NAWS and the onion.

  24. Nicola Sanderson says:

    Of course, during the studio pension ‘debate’ the horrible Labour toad was given the first word, last word and was allowed to constantly talk over SNP.

  25. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Calum Craig –

    Aye.

    Danny Alexander in Holyrood tomorrow? What’s that all about?

    Surely they don’t need a food bank in there as well?

  26. bunter says:

    Oh I get it, the message is, we are most displeased at the format of the head to head debates you are hosting and HMG is very displeased, especially with the wee Jimmie Krankie one coming up. And Im actually watching 8 out of 10 cats on CH4 at the moment and their are taking the piss out of Scotland and being semi effing racist! Grrrrrrr

  27. AllyPally says:

    Odd there’s an edit just before the final question and walk-off. I want to know what happened then.

  28. Andrew Morton says:

    Perhaps STV have realised that there is a commercial advantage to be gained from reporting the referendum honestly. I for one am watching STV news in preference to the BBC nowadays.

  29. mogabee says:

    You know, there’s a fair sized section of voters who are due to retire and know fine well how Mr Gordon Brown stole from pension funds.

    They won’t forget that.

  30. Seasick Dave says:

    If you are reading this, Mr Brown, can you explain why you think that Scotland shouldn’t follow the route of Norway to become a rich, successful nation with well funded socialist policies and a large fund for the future.

    Why do you think that remaining under the governance of Westminster, with its huge debts and austerity policies, is a good thing for Scotland?

    Thanks.

  31. Dcanmore says:

    @Dave McEwan Hill…

    This shows a man who doesn’t believe what he preaches. He’s there to deliver a soundbite for the journos in the vain belief that he’s still a respected politician.

  32. Thepnr says:

    For my sins I used to like Gordon Brown and much preferred him to Tony Blair as the new leader after John Smith.

    Unfortunately he has proven to be no different to Blair when it comes to maintaining the power of the establishment. He’s not looking well, the grey bags under his eyes are telling. I guess he’s not sleeping well.

    Not surprised when trying to defend the indefensible.

  33. Famous15 says:

    Sorry I am a bit corned beef.What was the question and answer at the end of the interview?

  34. Dcanmore says:

    Remember folks Brown doesn’t believe in Scotland being a nation of any sort, he prefers to live in a North British province of Westminster. Brown is a North Briton and he’s proud of it.

  35. sausage fingered luddite says:

    Gordon Brown trousers £64k plus expenses p.a.
    (but doesn’t actually turn up at his workplace)

  36. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    wee things

  37. Shiehallion! Shiehallion! says:

    He’s just going through the motions: sinking, not waving.

  38. GrahamB says:

    Brown is either completely ignorant about State Pension ‘funding’ or he is simply a liar. He banged on about us paying in to the UK system and having to leave that all behind and start from scratch in an independent nation. There has not been a pension fund since about the 1930s and all pensions are drawn from the Treasury current account, i.e. people in work pay tax and part of that goes straight out to pay pensions. At least if we establish an oil fund (maybe Ian Gray can tell us where we can get the money for that) we would have a proper savings account to pay out pensions and welfare, and smooth out fluctations in recieipts from that nasty oil stuff.

  39. Onwards says:

    If it is true that a higher proportion of old folks are against independence, then surely it seems logical for the SNP to offer them a nice old fashioned bribe via a higher pension, or a lower pension age.

    It might seem simplistic, but the unionists don’t mind playing politics, and the council tax freeze helped deliver a resounding Holyrood victory.

    We need some positive differences to offer the electorate instead of always being on the back foot, defending against ludicrous scare stories.

    We will be saving around millions a year on defense, so why not transfer some of that directly into bigger pensions?

    Giving a simple example of different priorities in Scotland if we had more powers.

  40. Clootie says:

    By Liam Halligan, Economics Editor

    12:01AM BST 15 Oct 2006

    Gordon Brown’s notorious “pension stealth tax” has reduced the value of retirement funds by at least £100 billion, independent research has disclosed.

    This is more than twice as much as the combined pension deficits of the country’s 350 biggest companies.

    The calculation comes at an unwelcome time for Mr Brown, who has tried to reassure voters that he will be a prime minister “for Middle Britain” as he seeks an orderly hand-over from Tony Blair.

    Last night, the Conservatives said that the Chancellor’s raid on funds would leave pensioners paying a “heavy price for many, many years to come”.

  41. Les Wilson says:

    That is an excellent article in “Forbes” the shine is coming of Westminster’s claptrap. More of it please!

    Brown or as I have always called him from his days at the treasury “Gordon Brown, aka the PICKPOCKET” for those who remember those day well, he was well known for his sneaky stealth taxes. Changed now? er, I do not think so!

  42. Seasick Dave says:

    Maybe he has had a few sleepless nights due to the fact that the used our money to finance the Iraq War.

    That would certainly keep me awake at night.

  43. scottish_skier says:

    ?

  44. Jimbo says:

    Brown should be arrested for putting pensioners in a state of fear and alarm.

  45. Macandroid says:

    Brown was probably not being paid enough to hang around after his alloyed slot was up.
    He spends so much time not in parliament he even forgot if he was still an MP – arsewipe!

  46. Andrew Morton says:

    Poot!

  47. Proud Cybernat says:

    O/T – Apologies.

    At a meeting tonight hosted by the Insurance Actuarial Society (Glasgow)in the Radison Blue Hotel, Glasgow to discuss the impact a YES result will mean on the Financial Services industry in Scotland. Very well attended meeting–probably around 300 or so people in the large function suite. The meeting was filmed but I took a lot of notes.

    The attendees were very much business people from the Financial Services industry in Scotland (not necessarily bankers)–a mixture of insurance brokers, independent financial advisers (IFAs), mortgage consultants, accountants etc.

    The panel included Fergus Ewing MSP for YES Scotland, Murdo Fraser MSP for Better Together and two non-politicians Steve White, CEO of British Insurance Brokers Association (BIBA) and Christine O’Neil, Partner & Chairman of Brodies LLP. The meeting was chaired by Professor Charles Munn.

    It was very much a Question Time format although each of the speakers gave a set speech before the floor was open to questions. Steve White declared his neutrality at the beginning of his speech although by the end of it it was quite clear that he was very much in the ‘let’s keep Britain together’ camp. “I am English, British and European and proud of it” he declared before taking his seat.

    Next up was Christine O’Neil, a constitutional lawyer. She really knew her stuff and did very well to be fair to both camps, with examples of where both camps needed to do better. She totally rubbished Barroso’s recent claims about it being near impossible for Scotland to be accepted into the EU. A very sensible and balanced speaker.

    Next up was Murdo Fraser who parroted the typical Better Together mantra–bigger, stronger, best of both worlds, we already have a currency union that works etc.

    Finally Fergus Ewing took to the podium. After about five minutes buttering up his audience “financial services is one of Scotland’s most important industries” blah, blah (a bit sickening to be honest) he finally got started. Not too bad a speech but hardly set the heather on fire. This was more of an audience that John Swinney should have addressed. I just got a sense that Fergus Ewing seemed to be too much on the back foot and did not articulate his points well enough.

    The Q/A session was more interesting with a number of interesting questions being asked but mostly specific to the Financial Services industry. Some guy (the second question) latched onto a comment by Murdo Fraser about Scotland receiving £1200 per head more in public spending (on average) than the rest of the UK. He pointed out that although that is correct, it was also correct that Scotland raised more in taxes to the tune of £1700 per head in Scotland on average thereby giving a net surplus of £500 per head to the UK Treasury. This seemed to flummox Fraser who then began grappling with some of his papers and began spouting the GERS figures back at the guy, saying that these figures showed that whilst Scotland raised £57 billion taxes, its expenditure was £64 billion thereby leaving Scotland with a net deficit (black hole) of £7 billion.

    Murdo Fraser seemed quite satisfied with that but then the guy asked if he could respond to Fraser’s comment and received the mic back. He then asked about the £121 billion loan per year the UK govt borrows and asked why a proportion (8.4%) of that money, around £12bn was being added to Scotland’s expenditure (the £64 billion figure) when Scotland was in surplus, ergo this £12bn was not being spent in Scotland even though it was apportioned to Scotland’s balance sheet. There then followed more shuffling of Fraser’s papers, shaking of his head and then, quite remarkably, Fraser said something like, “This is a very technical issue” and then asked the guy if he would like to come up to the podium and present his case.

    The guy laughed, shook his head and said, “I can deal with you from where I’m sitting thank you very much”, to which he received a round of applause. Fraser must have been rather flustered as he started off his response by saying to the guy that he would respond to his second question first (above) and would answer his first question afterwards. He completely avoided answering the guy’s first question (or maybe just forgot having been so flustered with the second question) which was something about Osborne’s speech in Edinburgh last week and how Sir Nicholas McPherson had advised Osborne that “…given the current model, he could not recommend a currency union” and that this statement surely left the door open for negotiations over a revised model of currency union.

    Informed guy. Put Fraser in his place (at least to me).

    Everything else was fairly mundane stuff. There was no vote or anything and the applause seemed fairly balanced.

    I also had some discussions with people outside the meeting and was quite shocked by some of their attitudes but that’s for another post. In brief this girl I spoke to thought everyone in Easterhouse would vote YES because they are poor, implying that everyone else were NO voters. I struggled real hard to keep my composure but I’ve prattled on enough for tonight.

  48. Papadocx says:

    Gordon Brown (chancer)

    Lost £7,000,000,000 when he sold our gold at bottom of market.!

    Raided our pension funds. Loss £ 6,000,000,000 when pension companies had to much money!
    Don’t think pensions is his strongest suite.!

    Ended boom and bust. Just before the biggest bust in history.

    Saved the world economic system? In his opinion! (He resigned.)

    Made Darling chancellor after himself because Gordy didn’t want anyone topping his performance!
    Or maybe he just wanted somebody that didn’t understand what shit he was getting lumbered with
    and wasn’t very good with numbers. Think he still hates big Gordy!

    His religious background. He’s out there putting the fear of God into these old people with lies.

    Has this guy got no conscience at all, is he labour perchance?

  49. Ian Brotherhood says:

    @Proud Cybernat –

    That’s not ‘prattling’ – that’s first-hand testimony.

    (It’s what used to be known, quaintly, back in the old days, as ‘journalism’.)

    Cheers.

  50. patronsaintofcats says:

  51. Calum Craig says:

    bump

  52. heedtracker says:

    I just look at Brown and think, teamGB 4th most unequal country in the West you idiotic charlatan. Now big clunking fist’s out and about Fife trying to frighten pensioners but bottling it for the camera. What a surprise.

  53. Seasick Dave says:

    Honk, parp.

  54. mr thms says:

    http://www.heraldscotland.com/u/u/uk-government-issues-bonds-to-holyrood.1392754454

    “The Scottish Government is to be given the power to issue its own bonds, Chief Secretary to the Treasury Danny Alexander has confirmed.

    The power will broaden the sources of finance available to it to fund major projects such as hospitals, schools and transport.

    The Scotland Act 2012 already gives the Scottish Government the ability to borrow up to a total of £2.2 billion for capital investment through the National Loans Fund (NLF) and commercial loans from 2015/16”

    After the referendum, before independence..

    Also

    Under the 2012 Scotland Act taxes of any description can be devolved

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/11/section/23/enacted

    This can be done immedetiately after a yes vote in readiness for independence.

  55. kininvie says:

    @Liz

    Peter Bell doesn’t follow up that perception, but I think he’s onto something. Barroso’s interventions have puzzled me: What’s in it for him?

    But if you look at it another way, Scotland’s independence is a direct challenge to the cosy club of nation states that constitutes the EU at present. It is a challenge which exposes on the one hand all their high principles about self-determination and ever closer union, and on the other the desire to keep the EU in a kind of post-Westphalian status quo, where frontiers are fixed and no one rocks the boat.

    An independent Scotland shows the emperor to have no clothes. The EU can’t reject Scotland, but to accept it means that boundaries are no longer fixed; that the EU as a club of enduring nation states is no longer valid. So maybe Barroso is far sighted after all: Scotland’s independence would be a catalyst for change, whose consequences cannot be forseen.

    Hence, being a conservative, and the person in charge of the institution which would have to manage the change, he’s stretching his role to the absolute limit in order to stop it happening.

    It’s beginning to make sense now. Thanks.

  56. thejourneyman says:

    I guess the mike just didn’t pick up big Gordon’s comment as he exited stage left, “bigoted female reporter, who set me up for those questions?”

  57. heedtracker says:

    @Proud Cybernat really great post, thank you!

  58. hetty says:

    I think a lot of, (but not all of course) older retired people are scared of change, they are inclined to be quite selfish and many do not think of the legacy they will be leaving for future generations should they vote no.
    They are also much less likely to use the internet, and more likely to watch a lot of tv. Oh and they do still think that the bbc are telling the truth about everything. Not all are like this, but most older folks I know will not even discuss the referendum.

    I have sat having drinks with elderly neighbours and they will talk about anything, the cats, the colour of the wallpaper, the streetlights not working, the rubbish, anything, but not Scottish Independence. Hence, I have not seen them for a while!

  59. Bill C says:

    @Proud Cybernat – Thanks for that, very interesting. I live on Deeside Aberdeenshire, known UK wide as ‘Royal Deeside’, but for marketing purposes only and certainly not a description locals are happy with. I attended a BT meeting a couple of weeks back in Ballater and although 60 this year, I am happy to report I was a youngster. Two points: 1. No voters are in the main, Tory, well off and elderly; 2. YES vote will be won in the housing schemes of the Central Belt, Aberdeen and Dundee. A fact already recognised by the YES campaign. Yet even here, on ‘Royal Deeside’ there is a strong support for Scottish self determination. YES will prevail simply because of the democratic vote from all over Scotland.

  60. Calum Craig says:

    hetty says:

    I think a lot of, (but not all of course) older retired people are scared of change, they are inclined to be quite selfish and many do not think of the legacy they will be leaving for future generations should they vote no.

    They are also much less likely to use the internet, and more likely to watch a lot of tv. Oh and they do still think that the bbc are telling the truth about everything. Not all are like this, but most older folks I know will not even discuss the referendum.

    Yes, completely- you have described my parents to a tee.

  61. mato21 says:

    I see he has half a saltire on his banner

    That must have been all he could stomach being North British

  62. The Water Beastie says:

    I echo Hetty’s comments – sometimes the desire for stability in the last year’s of life is far more overpowering than any desire for positive legacy for subsequent generations – especially if they have had a (comparatively) easy or comfortable time.

    An example: my mother (85) was arguing about how lowering the vote to 16 year olds was wrong, as they did not have enough life experience to make those sorts of decisions. I suggested to her that, given the referendum decision was going to affect them for the many years of the rest of their working lives (unlike an election), that therefore they had the most stake in the decision to be made – and on that basis, then perhaps the argument for disenfranchisement was more appropriate for 85 year olds, than for 16 year olds? 😮

    I think she got the point, and hasn’t complained about lowering the voting age again… 🙂

  63. Lewisian Gneiss says:

    Hi folks,

    Completely O/T for which I apologise, but just seen this on a BT forum – or The Scotsman as it’s more commonly known. I’m not sure if it’s original or has been taken from somewhere else but it’s a beautifully written piece and perhaps is worth a larger audience. The OP was a called Seaforth Highlander and I hope he/she doesn’t mind me sharing.

    “Three hundred and seven years ago our forefathers brought forth on these Islands a new country, conceived and dedicated to the proposition that the nations comprising it should unite and share equally the prosperity that was envisaged would flow from such a union.

    We may little note what the many generations since then hoped and prayed for but we should never forget what they did for this country. Both in industry and in blood they gave of their best with expectations not always realised.

    We now live in an age where blood, sweat and tears are not prerequisites for wealth creation. Corporate investors and currency speculators now create the wealth that is accumulated and retained by a few who show scant regard to its fair distribution.

    Governments of late have concluded that the welfare of those displaced by those modern forms of wealth creation are a costly luxury that cannot be afforded and policies designed for their relief has to be penal while policies to protect the wealthy must be reinforced. Unless this trend is checked the people of Scotland will suffer disproportionately.

    In a few short months the people of Scotland will have a chance to make a monumental decision. Whether it is better for them, and for Scotland, to seek independence from the rest of the UK, or to remain as part of it.

    A lot is being said about Scotland’s ability to prosper, or even survive, as an independent country, but very little about what our nation will look like to future generations if it remains within the Union. We can be sure of this, that whatever party, or coalition of parties, forms the next Westminster government, it will be more of the same and Scotland will not fare well as long as an elite in England sucks our nation’s wealth.

    It is for us therefore to be here dedicated to the great task before us, that for the present generation we take increased devotion to the nation that past generations believed in and future generations will be proud of, that we here highly resolve that Scotland shall not be brought down any more, or any further, to a state of penury, and that our nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom — and that government of her people, by her people, for her people, shall not perish while we have breath to prevent it.”

    Kind of brings a tear to the eye.

  64. ronnie anderson says:

    Rev, If you watched The One Show last night , the people of Blanefield Stirlingshire ,asked the Treasury dept to set aside, the Landfill Tax / Vat £69k LFT+ vat, Stirling Dist Council contributed £150k,Danny Alexander said the Treasury would contribute £250k if the SG did the same,but the Treasury still get the landfill Tax + Vat payed on the overall bill of £650k, disengenious bastard,s.

  65. ronnie anderson says:

    SoS REV, its for decontamination of the land, their house,s were builton contaminated land ( Cyanide)in the 60s, Scottish gov gets shafted againby Westminster.

  66. Keef says:

    All this negativity has shown that Westminster/the union/better together have absolutely nothing to offer Scotland to induce her to stay in the union.

    If there was even one positive aspect to staying in the union it would have been consistently pushed to the fore by the compliant media and the BT mob.

    Most Yes campaigners since the beginning of the debate have asked/pleaded/beseeched the NO mob to articulate the positives of staying in a union. How much has materialised? The plain and simple truth is Westminster needs Scotland so much more than Scotland needs Westminster. The BT mob are also terrified by the knowledge that even with the complicity of the MSM the vote continues to move from No to YES. Moreover, the polls would look even more one sided if a true demographic of the population was represented (the working class and poorest areas are always missed in these polls and yet there is ample evidence to show that this is where the YES vote is strongest).

    A YES vote, as some London analysts have so rightly admitted is far more probable than possible. Westminster has secretly conceded that they have very little hope of stemming the momentum of the YES campaign. This explains their blind panic and their commencement of ‘public’ pre-negotiations. Something that was inconceivable even a few months ago.

    The Ryder cup, the Commonwealth games and then the period of the ‘official campaign’ when the BBC/MSM should be forced to return to a non-biased reporting format will only serve to consolidate the YES vote even further.

    The biggest shocks are still to come in these next few months, but if the YES side can begin to realise just how strong their position is they will gain the needed strength to withstand this final onslaught of negativity/lies/smears and DDOS from project fear.

    In simple Glaswegian terms Project fear knows – ‘The games a bogey’

  67. Dal Riata says:

    @Proud Cybernat

    Many thanks for your post @12.06 am! Good to hear first-hand accounts of such gatherings.

  68. JLT says:

    I’ll be very surprised if the media coverage of Gordon has a deep effect on anyone, and when I mean effect, I’m talking just even a single percent in the polls.

    As soon as you see him, all the things of the past come to mind, and one word seems to scream out …failure.

    To trust Gordon, you have to begin with in ignoring his abrasive attitude. Then you have to wipe from your memory of past failures such as

    1. Leaving the debt at £750 Billion pounds

    2. Selling off the Gold Reserves at a very low price, only to see them scream to all time highs within a couple of years

    3. The raid on the pensions. Bloody priceless that he talks about ‘damage and black holes in pensions’ when he caused the biggest calamity to them! Seriously …priceless!

    Gordon’s step into the breach will no doubt have upset the growing disturbed mind of Alistair Darling, and I’m sure Balls and Alexander are less than chuffed.
    When undecided voters see Gordon stepping into the fray (even though he was not asked), I think it just nudges them closer to ‘Yes’ …hell …it might just nudge a few ‘No’ voters too!

  69. iain taylor (not that one) says:

    A bunch of hand picked (invitation only) pensioners in Lochgelly is Brown’s forte.

    They still think he’s the bee’s knees.

    And they’ll all vote No because they always vote Labour and their dad voted Labour.

  70. Roll_On_2014 says:

    Jimmy Broon’s raid on pensions costs Britain £100 billion

    Gordon Brown’s notorious “pension stealth tax” has reduced the value of retirement funds by at least £100 billion, independent research has disclosed.

  71. G H Graham says:

    Pensioners, pay attention!

    In 19997 Gordon (end of boom & bust) Brown abolished the Advanced Corporation Tax relief. The tax relief was previously applied to your pension share dividends.

    But what does this mean to your pension? Really simple but you need to know first how your contributions (savings) are used.

    The money you invested in your pension including any contributions from your employer was used to buy gilts, bonds, commodities, gold, equities, debt etc; a whole bunch of different financial vehicles in an attempt to make the value of your savings pot grow.

    Many equities (shares) issue dividends, a cash or share reward each year. This reward is usually reinvested into your pension pot, compounding some of the value growth.

    But earnings as well all know are usually taxable & the ACT relief provided pensioners tax relief on the dividends which meant you would not pay any tax on the earnings created by receiving dividends.

    Unfortunately for you pensioners, Gordon Brown abolished the tax relief in 1997 which meant that dividends would be treated as income & therefore taxed.

    According to Terry Arthur, a fellow of the Institute of Actuaries, the consequence to British pensions would be at least the loss of £100 billion & possibly £150 billion in value.

    The consequence of that loss is that many pensions would be underfunded & unable to deliver the returns originally anticipated by pensioners & pension fund providers.

    Are you disappointed at the amount of money your pension pays out each month/year?

    Well Gordon (end of boom & bust) Brown had a hand in that. So, the next time he appears on the telly warning you pensioners about the value of your pension pot in an independent Scotland, just remind yourself that it was Mr. Brown who, single-handed & deliberately, devalued your pensions by at least £100 billion.

    Never mind, I’m sure it’s as comforting as a pair of tartan slippers, to know that British Labour & their North British Labour spokesperson is still fighting for the welfare of the average working person.

  72. Linda's Back says:

    Found this Hootsman forum

    This economic guru’s intervention reminds me of the old joke.

    (a) Which world class economist sold 20% of its nation’s gold reserves at $1474 an ounce?

    (b) Which tyrant sold 60% of its nation’s gold at $275 an ounce?

    The answer my friend is (a) Gaddafi and (b) his pal Gordon Brown

  73. Kenny Campbell says:

    Surely if I’ve paid into my state pension in the UK for 30 years that its the UK who owes me my pension ? I’m not giving that up by voting yes.

  74. G H Graham says:

    Kenny Campbell,

    You are not giving anything up but the ability to pay you a living wage pension by the British state will become increasingly difficult if you vote NO.

    One hundred years ago, when state pensions were introduced, there were 22 people working for every retired person. By 2025, the estimated number of over 60s in Britain will pass the number of under 25s for the first time.

    Gordon Brown’s abolition of the ACT (tax relief) has had huge consequences by diminishing the value of pension funds. The stock market crash made things even worse. And if we live longer, more money will be needed from the pension pot.

    But, since Scotland is but 5 million people, we have room to grow our young population & our life expectancy is lower (although regrettable).

    Scotland’s debt to GDP is lower than rUK and we have lower net public debt too.

    Thus, voting YES means you will be in a better position to receive a pension than folks in England.

    Folks planning for retirement or who are already in retirement should vote YES because it is simply makes better financial sense to do so.

    Gordon (end of boom & bust) Brown is responsible for damaging British pensions. This year, we have a chance to make up for some of the damage he has incurred.

  75. Look Skye Walker says:

    A new low has been reached when a politician scares old men and woman that they will not receive THEIR pension for his HIS political gain! Shame on you, Brown. Your father must be rolling in his grave.

  76. Juteman says:

    The main benefit of independence for me, is never having to listen to these folk telling me i’m not good enough.

  77. Helena Brown says:

    Gordon Brown is lucky to still be alive, I got dragged away from that big face you would never get tired of slapping the day he showed up in Dunfermline High Street during his foray into the Scottish Parliament Elections.

    Detest the man and that is a personal feeling. His politics are those of the coward. He will not participate in the BT Campaign in case they lose, but will hang onto the coat tails cause if they win he will claim he did it.

    It did my heart good when after learning that he and Alistair Darling were ferrying people to the polls in 2011, in that they collectively lost.

  78. tartanfever says:

    Gordon Brown lures dozens of OAP’s to a hall in Lochgelly and drugs them with the OAP date-rape drug of choice, tea and biscuits, then proceeds to mass hypnotism and history revisionism.

    Sara, can you please stop buying him these self help books ?

    PS – the elastic has gone in the jaw again, he nearly swallowed a whole TV reporter last night.

  79. packhorse pete says:

    Why do some people think that the BBC/MSM will be “forced” to be impartial in the run up to the referendum? Whatever the Electoral Commission may say, I don’t believe it will happen. There may be outrage; there may be complaints; there may be trouble ahead. Maybe. But what if they just ignore the requirement?

  80. HandandShrimp says:

    Probably the most terrifying that Gordon Brown could do if asked why he thought Scotland would not be a success (apart from doing that smile) is simply to say “imagine if Johann was elected First Minster of an independent Scotland”.

    *just terrified myself there*

  81. Muscleguy says:

    @Kenny Campbell
    My mother in Independent New Zealand gets her British pension. All of something like £40 per year. They tracked her down in NZ and insisted she was owed it, she did not contact them.

    I fail to see how my mother is entitled and you will not be.

  82. John H. says:

    ‘ronnie anderson says:
    19 February, 2014 at 2:35 am

    Rev, If you watched The One Show last night , the people of Blanefield Stirlingshire ,asked the Treasury dept to set aside, the Landfill Tax / Vat £69k LFT+ vat, Stirling Dist Council contributed £150k,Danny Alexander said the Treasury would contribute £250k if the SG did the same,but the Treasury still get the landfill Tax + Vat payed on the overall bill of £650k, disengenious bastard,s.’

    ronnie, I very rarely drop in on The One Show, but I did last night for long enough to catch most of that report. The entire thing was constructed to make the British Government look bountiful, and make the Scottish Government look mean and incompetent. It had no other purpose as far as I can see. Though at least the people involved got some help. As you say, completely disingenuous.

  83. a2 says:

    That wifey at 1.16 is giving him pelters, wish I could make out what she’s saying.

  84. John H. says:

    Oops, sorry Rev. I quoted ronnie’s comment in full. My mistake.

  85. Boorach says:

    🙂

  86. Gillie says:

    If Gordon Brown ended up selling the Big Issue you still would not buy a copy from this man.

  87. Macandroid says:

    Danny Alexander prattling on in Economy, Energy & Tourism Committee now http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/newsandmediacentre/66727.aspx

  88. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    I notice in proud Cybernat’s interesting post at 12.06 the dreaded “deficit” came up again. Ruth Davidson threw this cheap point in at Kelso as well so they must think it is a winner.

    It is easy to debunk what is fundamentally a dishonest point so we should lose no time in doing so.
    Sadly at Kelso Stewart Hosie had so much misinformation thrown at him in the last part of the programme it was impossible for him to respond to a lot of it especially as he was given virtually no time by the presenter but it is easy to pour scorn on anybody who tries to use the deficit as an argument so I rather wish he had been less nice and had hammered Davidson and Jenny (big strong UK economy) Marra on it

    The best way to describe the deficit (after pointing out the fact that the UK deficit is enormous) is as having a small overdraft on your national accounts.
    The punters are presently being led to believe that the UK pays our “deficit”

  89. eric says:

    @calum craig
    @hetty
    “…They are also much less likely to use the internet, and more likely to watch a lot of tv. Oh and they do still think that the bbc are telling the truth about everything. Not all are like this, but most older folks I know will not even discuss the referendum…”

    “…Yes, completely- you have described my parents to a tee…”

    Absolutely agree. I have a load like this in my family. Its frightening.

  90. gordoz says:

    Brown and chartacter ‘Chancer’ in City Lights; who’d a’ spotted the similarities.

  91. Harry Shanks says:

    Crivvens!

  92. Desimond says:

    Gordon Brown – Yesterdays Man!

    Danny Alexander – Nowhere Man!

    @Proud Cybernat – Bravo that man!

  93. edulis says:

    Reflecting on last night’s Referendum Debate from Kelso, where the only difficulty for Stewart Hosie was his somewhat hedged response on tax in an independent Scotland, the proper response to such questions is that it will depend on what government the people choose. This is about choice first and foremost. We can be anything from an ultra-capitalist Singapore to a socialist republic. He could then have stated his preference, which in my case would be something akin to the Common Weal. Otherwise you fall into the BT’s trap of conflating independence and SNP (aka Alex Salmond).

  94. Desimond says:

    If we find a female Pensioner who openly supports Independence, are they a Cybernan?

  95. The Man in the Jar says:

    Just a quick note in defence of my generation. Which in my experience is very pro Yes.

    I am sixty now and so I was sixteen in the summer of sixtynine. A generation that at least tried to change the world (love and peace) A generation born in the ten or so years after WW2. This includes Alex Salmond (58) this group are now between the ages of 55 and 65.

    This is the generation that like myself were young adults starting out in life in the UK in the mid seventies just as the oil started to come ashore. A generation that has been lied to, coned and ripped off by Westminster to for two thirds of our lives. Something that makes me very angry if I think about all the missed opportunities denied to us by successive Westminster governments.

    I think that there is a big division between the over 65s and those that come immediately after. I have not met many over 65s that intend to vote Yes.

  96. theycan'tbeserious says:

    Gordon Brown, the man that stole your pension, scaring old age pensioners with lies and spin…better together, eye right!

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1266662/The-man-stole-old-age-How-Gordon-Brown-secretly-imposed-ruinous-tax-wrecked-retirements-millions.html

  97. Flower of Scotland says:

    @ Hetty
    You said that pensioners were worried about a Yes and a bit selfish. I’m in my late 60s and find that my friends are divided . The Scottish ones are worried about their children and Granchildren.s future and will vote yes ,but those who are English and there,s a fair few in N.E.Fife are all voting NO

  98. marjorie mitchell says:

    United with Labour, whatever happened to them?

    Free teas, so that’s how you get them in!

  99. jingly jangly says:

    RE Pensions and ex Chancellor’s Brown telling OAP, that all the monies they had paid into the British pension fund was at risk if we voted Yes.

    Marra was at it last night saying that the pension pot of 60 million people was better than 5 million, they don’t have a pension pot its all borrowed money. In Scotland we can build a pension pot as we will not be paying pensions for nearly a generation.

    I will transcript in total the letter my mate got from the Department of Pensions and Work on 4th January 2013.

    Mr (Address Redacted)

    State Pension

    In reply to your letter regarding your State Pension if Scotland votes for Independence.

    If Scotland does become Independent this will have no effect on your State Pension you will continue to receive it just as you do at present.

    In answer to your second question, anyone who is in receipt or entitled to claim State Pension can still receive this when they live abroad, If this is an European country or a country where Britain has a reciprocal agreement they will continue ot receive annual increases as if they stayed in Great Britain.

    If the country does not fall into the above criteria then the rate of State Pension remains payable at the rate it was when they left Britain and no annual increases will be applied until such times they come back to live in Britain permanently.

    If you have any further queries don’t hesitate to contact us our details are at the top of this letter.

    Yours etc

    unquote

    It should be noted that if anybody has paid 35 years worth of NI Contributions, then they are eligible for a UK Pension that means people as young as 51 could have paid the minimum qualifying amount into the UK pension system.

    I would imagine that there will be a pro-rate calculation for those who have just started up to those who have not quite reached the 35 years contributions, therefore, we have a massive opportunity to build a sustainable pension pot which will easily meet our pension requirements for years to come.

    Now the politicians know all this, why it was not flagged up by Stewart Hosie last night, I know not, I can only imagine they are keeping there powder dry!!!

  100. wingman 2020 says:

    The problem with pensions is that many people still imagine there is a big magic pot that we have all been paying into.

    Our state pensions are in the taxes we take from the next generation(s)

    This iScotland lifeboat needs to be launched quickly to get us away from HMS UK, which cannot afford anything and is unable to change course.

  101. theycan'tbeserious says:

    Gillie:

    You should think twice about buying the big issue as it’s editor is anti-independence, promoting the status-quo and promotes that stance in his articles. So basically the editor of the big issue is self serving, stopping Scotland and it’s people from prospering and therefore keeping those he is meant to represent homeless and in poverty.

  102. wingman 2020 says:

    But in the interest of reality and common sense… the Scottish / English state pension will be integrated for quite a few years… even after independence. People living and working on both sides of the border make it so.

    It will take a decade to sort out contributions and shift to a fully independent system. And that fine.

  103. wingman 2020 says:

    @theycantbeserious

    Duly noted. Thanks.

  104. Proud Cybernat says:

    Errata to my earlier post above @12.06am

    “…He then asked about the £121 billion loan per year the UK govt borrows and asked why a proportion (8.4%) of that money, around £12bn was being added to Scotland’s expenditure (the £64 billion figure) when Scotland was in surplus, ergo this £12bn was not being spent in Scotland even though it was apportioned to Scotland’s balance sheet….”

    Clearly I was a bit tired when I got home last night. Re-reading my notes properly this morning, what the guy actually articulated was that whilst £4bn was included in Scotland’s annual expenditure (the £64.5bn figure in GERS) to help service the interest on the UK’s mountain of debt, Scotland’s balance sheet did not receive a proportional share of the annual £121bn being borrowed by the UK, around £10bn.

    So, whilst we are paying for the UK’s borrowing in our expenditure column (£4bn), we are not seeing any input of that borrowing into our revenue column. It’s a bit like your neighbour borrowing £10,000, keeping all the money for himself and expecting you to repay £40 towards his annual interest of £400 on the loan. You are paying 10% of his interest but did not receive 10% of the money he borrowed.

    For the GERS figures to be like for like and fairly reflect Scotland’s fiscal position, around 8.4% of the annual borrowing should be lodged into Scotland’s revenue column i.e. around £10bn. This brings Scotland’s GERS revenue to £67bn (£57bn in taxes raised + £10bn money borrowed) whilst its expenditure is £64.5bn – a surplus of around £2.5bn.

    I think the above is a better reflection of the point he was making. Apologies if I have confused anyone.

  105. wingman 2020 says:

    “And then there is Wings Over Scotland. Speak to anyone engaged in the referendum debate and they will know all about it. It attracts just as much praise and respect from those in the Yes camp as it draws vitriol and abuse from the No side. With almost the whole of the UK’s traditional media lined up against Yes, Wings Over Scotland is a refreshing antidote. It is irreverent, brave, challenging, intelligent and often carries brilliant analysis and debunking of the media’s campaign against the Yes movement. The fact that a serious and on-going targeted DoS attack has been launched against the site is proof it is making an impact.”

    Brilliant, absolutely brilliant.

  106. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    “Man who thought 75p pension increase was a good idea tells pensioners they are better off in the UK.”

    Surreal …

  107. MajorBloodnok says:

    Reminds me of Strangely-Brown mentioned in Blackadder GF.

  108. wingman 2020 says:

    “He went on: “Maybe people in Scotland don’t feel any great affection to the north of England but I think they do and where a Yes vote leaves us is with a higher chance of a Tory government. My appeal would be to get the leaders of those northern cities up there to Scotland to say, ‘please, recognise that we are better together fighting together’.”
    Motorists would have to drive on the right and present their passports at the Border if Scotland becomes independent, Mr Burnham added.
    Mr Burnham told Holyrood Magazine: “I would feel really genuinely sad if Scotland votes for independence, not just for our own self-interest and in the extra difficulty we would face getting a Labour government in England but I also don’t want to drive up the M6 and get my passport out or have to drive on the right when I want to drive on the left.”

    Andy Burnham in the Telegraph…. just confirming he is either an idiot or a liar.
    What a massive twat.

  109. Look Skye Walker says:

    Great news! We are all buying new left-hand drive cars!!!!

    Motorists would have to drive on the right and present their passports at the Border if Scotland becomes independent, Mr Burnham added.
    Mr Burnham told Holyrood Magazine: “I would feel really genuinely sad if Scotland votes for independence, not just for our own self-interest and in the extra difficulty we would face getting a Labour government in England but I also don’t want to drive up the M6 and get my passport out or have to drive on the right when I want to drive on the left.”

  110. MochaChoca says:

    @Kenny Campbell

    That appears to be the case (didn’t the DWP confirm this to be so?)

    If the UK operated a state pension pot then that would be a ‘no brainer’…. what you’ve paid in would be sitting waiting to be paid back out, with interest.

    But they don’t operate that way.

    Pensions are paid out of current taxation/NI contributions, so it goes without saying that rUK would be up in arms if all Scottish pensioners continued to be paid from rUK taxation/NI.

    I suspect in reality a proportion of Scottish taxes will be handed over to a shared DWP to service our pension commitments (and the pensions of ex-pats who worked / contributed in Scotland) as a transitional arrangement, until separate Scottish and rUK versions of the DWP are rolled out.

    It could get somewhat complicated as you have tens / hundreds of thousands who may have worked both sides of the border and moved across the border (or indeed abroad) on, or during, retirement.

  111. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Andy Burnham in the Telegraph…. just confirming he is either an idiot or a liar.”

    Why are they reporting an interview from months ago?

  112. Dennis Smith says:

    @ Kininvie at 12.39

    Thought-provoking. It’s certainly true that the EU has a problem with democracy and shows an instinctive resistance to change (no surprise there).

    But you can also stand this on its head and say that a lot of democratic thinking has a problem with the EU. It’s fixated on a notion of the nation-state that is now obsolete. (Michael Keating in his book Rescaling the European state put the heyday of the nation-state from 1870 to 1950 – i.e. the heyday ended just as the EEC was taking off.)

    This helps to explain why people on both sides of the debate get hung up on arguments like ‘You can’t have real independence unless you have your own currency and your own central bank’. This is like 19th-century demands for your own national church, your own national language and God knows what all else.

    This is an obsolete paradigm. We live in world of overlapping identities and overlapping sovereignties, and a good thing too. But this does pose challenges about rethinking democracy and finding new ways of making it work. There are huge opportunities here for a reconfigured Scotland.

  113. Ronnie says:

    @ TMiTJ

    I have not met many over 65s that intend to vote Yes.

    One relative, late 70’s (Undecided)
    One relative, Mid 80’s (Undecided)
    One relative, will be 90 (Never Votes)

    Now all three voting ‘Yes’, after the reading from ‘Gideon’s Bible’.

  114. Ronnie says:

    Forgot to add;

    Spouse, (er, 30 something) (Undecided)
    Me, will be 73, (Never voted Labour).

    All five voting ‘Yes’.

  115. John Gibson says:

    My mother will be voting Yes – she’s 91.

  116. Isabelle smith says:

    Read letter in independent today that the reason for England to stay in eu was so the English could veto Scotland’s entry to the organisation. !!!!

  117. wingman 2020 says:

    @Rev
    “Why are they reporting an interview from months ago?”

    Because they can?

    Anything to build another anti-independence fable and get it out into the public domain.

  118. Fiona says:

    Why does anyone think we would drive on the right? I really don’t get that. Is it because cars would be cheaper? In that case why would the rUK not follow suit? I am confused

  119. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    Refreshing

  120. Conan_the_Librarian says:

    @Fiona

    More Project Fear nonsense is all.

  121. Morag says:

    Eating humble pie in the sky:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10647303/New-Scottish-Tory-chairman-predicts-Holyrood-power-within-a-decade.html

    I think that more or less redefines delusional.

    You know, Richard Keen had a reputation as a formidable intellect. Brain the size of a planet and all that. He was Lamin Fhimah’s advocate in the Camp Zeist Lockerbie trial, and come to think of it all the lawyers made a fortune out of that.

    He succeeded in getting his client acquitted, but some might say at the cost of abandoning Megrahi to his fate. Clever lawyering, as opposed to the pursuit of truth.

    Megrahi’s own advocate was a rather dim bulb, to put it politely. However, it’s always puzzled me how come Keen, supposedly so smart, never spotted the gaping hole in the forensics which, when explored, proves to contain the evidence that would have acquitted both accused – and not on legal points either, but on the basis of both having an unbreakable alibi.

    Maybe he’s not as smart as his reputation would suggest.

  122. chicmac says:

    Doubt if anyone, any longer, believes this Brown stuff.

  123. Sandy Milne says:

    Quality Town Hall building in Lochgelly great to see the benefits of the union are investing in modern facilities for the people of Scotland. NOT!!!

  124. Desimond says:

    @chicmac

    ‘Brown Stuff’…exactly!

  125. Sandy Milne says:

    @Morag.

    If Richard Keen thinks the SNP will disappear in the event of a NO vote he is sadly mistaken. It will be more like Obi Wan Kenobi saying to Darth Vadar “You can’t win, Vader. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine”.

  126. memaw says:

    Please can I be Cybernan and my husband Cyberpop since we are both OAPs and voting Yes?

    We know what you mean though, about people of a certain age believing everything the BBC says. Having said that, we are having problems with the younger members of our family who are convinced that the BBC are totally unbiased. They think we are suffering from some sort of dementia with a touch of conspiracy theory.

  127. Taranaich says:

    @memaw: Having said that, we are having problems with the younger members of our family who are convinced that the BBC are totally unbiased.

    If it helps, I’d point out that it isn’t just the referendum the BBC are biased against:

    http://biasedbbc.org/

    http://bbcinstitutionalbias.blogspot.co.uk/

    http://isthebbcbiased.blogspot.co.uk/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/bbc-accused-ofpolitical-bias–on-the-right-not-the-left-9129639.html

    Considering that the BBC have contracted Atos for their IT work, it shouldn’t be surprising that the BBC habitually downplay the immense protests against the company’s association with the DWP – and after the Hutton report essentially whitewashed the government’s role in what was almost certainly the murder of Dr. David Kelly, it’s easy to see why they would toe the government line ever since.

    Suffice to say, the BBC’s bias isn’t just against Scottish independence – it’s heavily biased in favour of the very government it’s supposed to keep in check.

  128. Agnes says:

    Deputy Prime Minister Nick Clegg as the remaining centrepiece of Liberal Democrat seats.

  129. memaw says:

    Many thanks for that. We are definitely having an uphill struggle.
    My husband and I are now known as the Evangelicals or Fundamentalists in the family.

  130. memaw says:

    Sorry Taranaich,
    Because I pressed reply I thought it would put your name in automatically. Thanks again.



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