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Wings Over Scotland


For the record

Posted on November 11, 2016 by

Because, astonishing as it might seem in the circumstances, Ruth Davidson actually genuinely tried to get away with this at First Minister’s Questions yesterday:

davidsonchina

They really do think we won’t remember, readers.

(Source 1, Source 2)

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    1. 11 11 16 11:56

      For the record | speymouth

    220 to “For the record”

    1. Grouse Beater says:

      The insult lies less in her flip-flopping, more in the historical fact that the Tory party is a distant stranger to anything Amnesty International believes in and protects.

    2. Nuada says:

      Unbelievable. And yet, I believe it.

    3. Brian Powell says:

      One of her constituents could email these two statements to her and ask for an explanation.

    4. Tom MacGregor says:

      Ooops

    5. Proud Cybernat says:

      Elephants apparently have good memories. But she’s not a Mahout–she’s Buffalo gal. Buffoon gal too.

    6. Bob Mack says:

      Deliberately undermining her “own” country whilst encouraging England to sign the deal.

      Next time we hear Ruthie claiming to be a Scot we should tell her to feck offf

    7. HandandShrimp says:

      I am of the view that Davidson considers the electorate to be idiots with memory of a goldfish. This is a particularly pathetic attempt to cover up how she and Rennie and the media once again attempted to betray Scotland in order to have a cheap shot at an SNPbaaaaad.

    8. David Mills says:

      I have Collins here, looking for a picture of Ruth for their new definition of hypocrisy.

    9. Macart says:

      This is what passes itself off as a politician and ‘honourable’ opposition in Holyrood.

      A petulant, shouty attention seeker with a Pinocchio complex and anger management issues.

    10. JPJ2 says:

      We all know why Davidson gets away with this.

      The rabid unionist press has her back covered and are entirely focussed on exaggerating, or more likely inventing, SNP Bad stories.

    11. Arbroath1320 says:

      But … but … but … these two statements are over six months apart so no one in Scotland will remember what she said. Remember folks WE can not remember what she said yesterday so obviously we can not remember what she said six months ago. 😀

      Ruth “where’s my next photo op” Davidson is the clear leader of NO in the upcoming indyref2 despite her saying she would not lead it. 😉 Obviously this little episode was her just trying out her anti independence bile spewout! 😀

      This little episode must surely take her righteous ladyship one gigantic step closer to acquiring her very own cloak of ermine. 😛

    12. potter says:

      Which companies the MOU was signed with are on the Norwegian list?https://www.nbim.no/en/responsibility/exclusion-of-companies/

    13. defo says:

      And done without batting an eyelid no doubt.
      Are phrases like ‘enemy of the people’ ok ?

    14. Valerie says:

      James Dornman, SNP MSP, has tweeted this graphic to Ruth.

      I still think May put the mix into this. Her signing Hinckley, and the Scottish deal falling, are no coincidence.

    15. brian mcardle says:

      BBC did two reports on the same company,the BBC ENGLAND praised them and as lord mayor was gushing,BBC SCOTLAND it was all doom and gloom

    16. Training Day says:

      Gordon Brewer and Gary Robertson will be lining up to tear strips off her for this..

      Any minute now..

    17. Scott says:

      Ruth tank is a hypocrite she has the nerve to call the SNP Government a shower and gets away with it but all the time she tells lies in Parliament.
      I posted this link in another page

      http://on.rt.com/7uo7

      As she is so keen along with Willie Rennie on human rights someone should ask about this.

    18. galamcennalath says:

      Davidson’s sole mission in politics is to damage Scotland in an attempt to make self determination more difficult. That now seems to be the Unionists’ main long term strategy.

    19. Proud Cybernat says:

      The Home Wreckers…

      http://imgur.com/a/yn5Fn

      Hope you’re proud of yourselves, ProudScotButt Yoons. This will not be forgotten. Ever.

    20. Ally says:

      Brian Powell says:

      11 November, 2016 at 11:26 am

      One of her constituents could email these two statements to her and ask for an explanation.
      =========================================

      Every reader in Glasgow is a constituent, as she is a list MSP. She may argue that she was speaking as Tory Branch Manager, as opposed to an MSP

    21. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      I make that 3 in a row (backed up with irrefutable evidence) from the Ruthenfuhrer now.

      1. Ruth Davidson presents English NHS Figures used to attack SG/SNP on the SNHS

      2. Ruth Davidson presents as the official position of the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors, the personal opinions of 0.0024% of its membership

      3. Ruth Davidson states that this MOU failure is all the SG/SNPs fault dismissing any impact the attacks by the Unionist Parties at Holyrood and their compliant media may have had on foreign investment to Scotland

      Surely Presiding Officer has recourse to ensure their is an apology to the Scottish Parliament next week?

      Or is it a case of damage the integrity of the Scottish Parliament the SG/SNP and protect the Union at all costs?

      I think the Presiding Officer should let us know.

    22. Arbroath1320 says:

      Ally says:
      11 November, 2016 at 11:49 am

      Every reader in Glasgow is a constituent, as she is a list MSP. She may argue that she was speaking as Tory Branch Manager, as opposed to an MSP

      No she isn’t Ally … sorry.

      She WAS up until May but in the May elections she won a constituency seat in Edinburgh.

    23. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      MSM/BBC etc. report this without question to make her look like “a strong opposition” in the hope it will help her parties chances in the Local Elections 2017 though.

      Despicable propaganda by omission and lies.

    24. Proud Cybernat says:

      BBC England – China very very good.

      BBC Scotland – China very very bad.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSSZLg1crKw&feature=youtu.be

      Are you getting this yet, No voters? Are you seeing the utter duplicity in these Yoon creatures who would happily take the food off your table?

    25. Anagach says:

      Did we not just see her on Brexit, so agile she could u-turn on a sixpence*.

      *for the young that is a phrase from the pre-decimal era, which Brexit will shortly return you unto.

    26. Jamie says:

      The word doublethink comes to mind…

    27. Auld Rock says:

      From FMQ’s yesterday, Carlaw stated Alex S gave Chump his job as Scottish Ambassador, correct me if I’m wrong but I thought it was Labour’s Jumping Jack Flash who appointed him? If I’m right then I wish FM would point this out to him, this is how a lie gets multiplied.

      Auld Rock

    28. winifred mccartney says:

      I watched one of wonderful nana’s links yesterday and saw the bbc bias first hand -bbc london and the chinese with cameron -wonderful according to bbc – bbc scotland reporting about the same firm – links to everything bad and they say the bbc is not biased!!

    29. Brian Powell says:

      Arbroath1320

      I should have said, ‘as many of her constituents as have read this’, should contact her.

    30. matthew McCallum says:

      More to the point did the Scottish government reply in kind to wee Ruthie and point out her total hypocrisy

    31. Lies and denial seem to be the in thing with right wing politicians at the moment. Sadly the mainstream media seem to want to let them get away with it at every turn.

    32. Mike says:

      As long as the media in the UK protects any and all opposition to the SNP they will continue to do and say what they like with impunity knowing it wont go mainstream unless within a context which looks favourable to them.
      Its the corruption of the media that’s to blame for allowing a one sided unbalanced scrutiny of politics.
      They know it and aint even ashamed of it. Some of them even flaunt it click bait with it and brag about it online.
      Pretty sickening state of affairs.

    33. peter says:

      It should be apparent to everyone living in Scotland by now, that Ruth the mooth, and dizzy Dug-tail , and wee willy wonker, are not in the least bit interested in doing anything or supporting anything, that might benefit Scotland . there only purpose in the SG is to undermine, and do what ever it takes to destroy the SNP . And to save the union, for there Imperial Masters in Westminster .

    34. gus1940 says:

      Yesterday’s performance at FMQs was a display of disgraceful hypocrisy.

      In trying to get themselves off the hook of responsibility for the Chinese backing out Fat Boab and Wee Willie had the nerve to try to make out that Nicola was responsible.

      They should be asked to provide any single example of an utterance or action by Nicola in which she attacked The MOU and provoked The Chinese to pull out.

      However, there is no shortage of attacks by our 3 unionist stooges, their political allies, The BBC and their fans in the media ever since The MOU came to light and there is therefore no doubt as to where the responsibility lies for the Chinese pull out.

      What a disgraceful bunch of lying hypocritical political opportunists they are with no concept whatsoever of shame.

    35. Mike says:

      Of course the Scottish Government could do more to expose these lies themselves. They shouldnt meekly accept GERS and OBR data as factual. They should demand evidence of data and stats presented. They should demand detail not just accept a number thrown at them to be taken at face value.
      The Scottish Government does itself no favours when it meekly allows the most blatant lying to go unchallenged.

    36. Ken500 says:

      Ruth Davidson is a compulsive liar. A danger to Democracy. A personality disorder. ‘Psycho bastards’. Their own description. Her Party elected members abuses vulnerable innocent women children and men. Kills and starves them for money. Shameless deceitful liars. Including shameful football/sports people clubs and Royalty. A totally corrupt unlawful system. Shameful.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence,

    37. Arbroath1320 says:

      Sorry for going O/T so early but thought everyone would want to know they can breathe a little easier now. Wee Georgie the towel folder, remember him peeps ;), is to become a member of the Order of the Companions of Honour today.

      Quick someone pass the sick bu…. too late … DAMN!

      http://archive.is/quZsf#selection-551.48-551.95

    38. heedtracker says:

      Another day of Post-truthyness politics from Ruthie babes, shock.

      In this era of post-truth politics, an unhesitating liar can be queen. The more brazen her dishonesty, the less she minds being caught with her pants on fire, the more she can prosper. And those pedants still hung up on facts and evidence and all that boring stuff are left for dust, their boots barely laced while the lie has spread halfway around the world.

      The proof is on show most visibly in the US, where Pres Donald Trump enjoys a relationship to the truth that is chilly, occasional and distant. The Washington Post’s fact-checker blog has awarded its maximum dishonesty rating – four Pinocchio’s – to nearly 70% of the Trump statements it has vetted. And it’s vetted a lot.

      Ruthy Babes Davidson just took that Trump award for maximum dishonesty with five Pinocchio’s, sponsored by BBC Scotland.

      All of the above shamelessly plagiarised from rancid The Graun, not teller of the anti Scottish democracy mega whoppers, I wish.

    39. Ken500 says:

      It does no one any favours to criticise the SNP Scottish Gov for matters out of their control because People voted NO. The power is in the People’s hand. One person one vote, Vote wisely.

      Vote SNP/SNP. May 2017 Vote for Independence.

    40. msean says:

      Tories always think we’ll have forgotten after a few months. Just think of the jobs and investment that could have come Scotlands way.

    41. Andrew Mclean says:

      Hold on
      On the 9th November the managing director of the Chinese company says the deal is still on, on the 10th it’s off.

      “I don’t think the deal is off … We are awaiting the Scottish side to build a work team for it,” Peter Zhang, managing director of SinoFortone Group, told the Global Times on Tuesday”

      That’s this Tuesday, it’s Friday what gives?

    42. heedtracker says:

      Ruthy Babes in poost truthyness action. You deserve the truth! No not you lot, you lot, yes you!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp5ckai5WGs

    43. Robert Graham says:

      All very well but this is after the event ,
      Nicola Sturgeon needs to drop the nice and reasonable approach to all the unionist parties , she should have wiped the floor with Davidson yesterday , She should be interrupting them when their question is preceded by a political rant and ask if there is a question forthcoming during this preamble , This weekly political hatchet job is now being used without censure by a useless to the point of being a spectator Labour mouthpiece Ken Macintosh .
      I suggest Nicola Sturgeon immediately employs advisors who are up to the job because blows are being landed on a daily basis and by the looks of it totally without reply , most people on here could have Davidson on the ropes without breaking sweat

    44. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      We saw it with indyref1, Carmichael, Brexit, Trump, and now this sheer effrontery in Parliament. The Big Lie is being deployed more and more by those with something to hide in order to try to deflect people from the awkward truth. Which will still emerge eventually.

      Like her politics or not, Buffalo Gal had something of a reputation for “telling it straight”. Now after more than one recent servile U-turn, she’s being found out as just another PSB poseur.

      But I wonder if this SNPbaaaaad thing is being well overplayed now, and thus being heavily discounted by people.

      And maybe there are journos like Ponsonby who are beginning to realise that they can’t passively collaborate with this kind of cynical trash any longer if they are to do their duty as citizen and reporter. We can but hope.

    45. shug says:

      Not to be mentioned on Call Kaye

      move along nothing to see here

      Is anyone noticing a difference in the voice clarity and volumes used in the BBC recordings of first ministers question.

      Is anyone monitoring the voice patterns

    46. Ken500 says:

      Osbourne -cocaine/prostitution. Liar, killing and maiming innocent people. Starving the vulnerable to death. Breaking the Law completely. Tax evader. No fit for government. Absolutely heartless. He should be put in jail. Cameron the worst PM since 1928 and before?

      Saville knighted by the Tories. He should have been put in jail. Green knighted. Mone, Carmichael etc. Rewarded for lying. Tax evasion.

      YES Scotland needs change,

    47. macnakamura says:

      AULD ROCK 11-58
      ======
      You are not wrong.

      “BBC Last Updated: Monday, 1 May 2006, 01:13 GMT 02:13 UK
      Trump becomes Scotland ambassador

      Mr Trump will join the the Globalscot network to promote Scotland
      US business tycoon Donald Trump is to become an ambassador for Scotland, it has been announced.

      After accepting an invitation from First Minister Jack McConnell, Mr Trump will join a network of influential people who promote the country.”

    48. Arbroath1320 says:

      Right.

      I’ve had enough.

      I have just contacted the Presiding Officer to complain about the constant lying going on in the debating chamber. I do not expect anything to come of my complaint but hey ho I feel a wee bit easier for complaining in the first place. 😀

    49. Neil Cooj says:

      Why does the SNP keep on wishing that the media will do the honourable.

      I think it’s the SNP who are too wee and stupid in their outlook to the media. They have to learn to use social media better, stop doing interviews with msm and fight harder and stronger if they want to win. Lying get down and hoping the media will stroke their belly like a little lap dog isn’t cutting the mustard !!

    50. Dan Huil says:

      Davidson is loved by the bbc. When it comes to Scotland the bbc is the big lie. My hatred for all of them continues to grow.

    51. Andrew Mclean says:

      Robert Graham

      Ab so bloody lutly

    52. shug says:

      Telling me this stuff is all fine but how do we get it in the face of no voters

      It is no voters we need to hear and understand and change their position

      There is also a need to get journalists to understand we know they are lying – even the worst of them will have a glimmer of morality

    53. Juteman says:

      I know the word is frowned on, but i’m sorry, she is a ("Quizmaster" - Ed). She is deliberatly working to undermine her own country.

    54. heedtracker says:

      In post truthy Ruthie babes Scotland, she can and does say anything she likes but its not a good thing though in the US because,

      As Baron puts it plaintively: “How can we have a functioning democracy when we cannot agree on the most basic facts?” In the US, that’s become a pressing question.

      In Britain, we have not yet fallen as far. That’s partly because we still have one forum which cannot so easily be dismissed as peddling a partisan agenda, though its critics, right and left, never cease trying.

      I’m speaking of the BBC. For all its flaws, it has retained the status once enjoyed by the US networks, broadly trusted to play umpire between competing claims on the truth – or at least to try.

      Also shamelessly lifted in same thing from Graun. Its nice to have a good lunchtime larf on planet toryboy Scotland.

      Maybe its all about the size of the democracy, for your average Britnat ligger. Trump v v bad in the US, Ruthie Babes v v lovely and nice, in the Scotland region of greater England.

      Hard core conservative regional liars like Ruthie Babes are fine, hard core conservative national liars like Trump are very not.

      Or maybe it just comes down to whether or not you agree with the tory liars out there.

    55. Arbroath1320 says:

      WOW!

      It all seems to be kicking off today in one form or another methinks. 😉

      Apologies for another O/T here but I really need help with this one. I just can not get my wee head round this news. Has someone at Lib Dem Branch office (phone box at East end of Princes Street in Edinburgh) had a nightmare, read the writing on the wall or have they really seen the light? 😀

      http://archive.is/ESto2

    56. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      “Davidson is loved by the bbc. When it comes to Scotland the bbc is the big lie.”

      Davidson is EX-BBC @ Dan Huil says at 12:28 pm, enough said really.

    57. Clapper57 says:

      Blatant political manipulation and lies exposed by the alternative media yet again….we get to see through the hypocrisy and political gesturing while others remain poorly informed and reliant on news from an agenda driven MSM.

      Shocking that so many voters sleep walk through life oblivious to the truth . We supposedly now live in a digital age where access to information is at our fingertips but instead there are those who choose to be willingly brainwashed by tabloid churnalists who are intent on churning out constant propaganda driven political spin to promote their party of choice.

      This exposé from Wings today is exactly what any REAL Journalist should be highlighting and exposing but unfortunately we have a hostile media who are controlled by affluent owners supportive of unionist political parties and broadcasting companies aligned to the Tory government.

      Truth is not an option in our media, one only has to look today at the conflicting headlines in the newspapers on the UK/USA ‘special’ relationship to see political affiliations at play.

      There are so many voters who are in denial , some through choice and some through ignorance.

      The Tories are NOT holding the SG to account but are deflecting attention away the reality of the total failure of their HQ party . Their conflicting statements are evidence that they are confident that the media will not hold them , the real villains, to account but instead will present the SG as the incompetent villains and once more the distinctly unsavoury and seedy side of politics is undeservedly victorious.

      The MSM should most definitely be our target come Indy 2 and the promotion of the alternative media should be publicised by us as much as possible to the uninitiated , because we all have to make a concerted effort to both challenge and expose the untruths and omissions that are both conspicuous by their inaccuracy and absence.

      Knowledge is power. We have the knowledge but sadly so many do not…….lets try and change that.

    58. Andrew Mclean says:

      Read this article, no really read it

      http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016760.shtml

      Given the timescale, why on Tuesday is one thing the state of affairs and on Thursday everything different, after months everything changed overnight,?

      Now ask yourself why, No one changes their story to the press overnight, especially not managing directors of major investment houses.

      There is a story here bigger that a investnent potential.

      Who’s leaning on who here?

      This is what a journalist does, finds a discrepancy and digs, I wonder if it will be a Scottish journalist that first finds the truth?

    59. heedtracker says:

      Dan Huil says:

      Davidson is loved by the bbc. When it comes to Scotland the bbc is the big lie.

      “For all its flaws, the honest and nice BBC has retained the status once enjoyed by the US networks, broadly trusted to play umpire between competing claims on the truth – or at least to try.”

      Its Graun’s Jonathan Freedland. He wont mind plagiarists like me. That’s a lie. Never thought of Jacky Bird as an umpire before, much more of a player.

    60. Famous15 says:

      Wonderful source for facts etc

      Fred mentioned the Irish word “Shoneen” for those who prefer English ways and those who ape Anglo mores. I am for borrowing this to label Tory Ruth and her ragbag band who would beggar Scotland just for a pat on the head from Theresa May.

      The Scottish Tory and Unionist party is a shoneen stirring shambles!

    61. Nana says:

      We are all well aware the unionist politicians are only there to do Scotland down in any way possible. Voters are seeing this in the same way they see the media bias.

      I have had a few conversations this week, folk are becoming more aware. Much anger being directed at the Tory & Lib dems in regard to Fort George.

      Re the Chinese deal or no deal…

      http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1016760.shtml#.WCT1Apa3olA.twitter

    62. Scott says:

      Did anyone see the look on the face of the tank when the FM replied to Carlaw about her tweet about Trump for anyone who has not seen it here is her tweet.

      So, twitter, we’re all agreed? Trump’s a clay-brained guts, knotty-pated fool, whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch, right?

    63. Robert Peffers says:

      @Mike says: 11 November, 2016 at 12:07 pm:

      “The Scottish Government does itself no favours when it meekly allows the most blatant lying to go unchallenged.”

      Nice try Mike but we are not so daft as not to realise you have just done exactly the same thing with that claim as the three Unionist party Scotland branch managers are doing at Holyrood.

      You have just sided with them by blaming the SNP.
      The truth of the matter is that the SNP are allowing those who are hell bent upon blaming the SNP for everything, “get away with it”, in the sure and certain knowledge that, in the main, the Scottish electorate have cottoned on to the Unionist duplicity and also to the Scottish media’s complicity in the lies and omission of their, “SNP BAD”, campaign.

      All evidence points to that conclusion. Nicola’s and the SNP’s popularity are continuing to grow. As are the figures throw up in opinion polls that Scots voters are generally more satisfied with the things the SNP BAD campaign is attempting to demonise.

      These are mostly Education, Police Force, Fracking Moratorium, Council Tax freeze and the independent Scottish NHS performance.

      All of which figures show the Scottish performance is better by far that the rest of the United Kingdom’s and the Scottish voters know it.

    64. Unionists will do anything and everything they can to damage our country and its economy, for their own narrow party interests.

      I also think that Ruth Davidson believes the electorate has the memory of a goldfish doesn’t remember what she said from one week to the next.

    65. Ken500 says:

      It’s the Tory/Unionist that need to be brought to account. They haven’t a clue what they are doing,

      Appalling Illegal changes to the benefits system were broke in this week. By Unionists Parties They will disproportionately affect vulnerable women and children. It will result in death. They are all culpable and have broken the Law. It is having to be taken to Law courts to stop their criminality and protect human rights of basic dignity. An absolute disgrace. Hinkley Point, HS2 and Heathrow expansion is a complete and utter disgraceful waste of taxpayers money and will endorse the North/South Divide. While vulnerable people are starved.

      Davidson or her Party does not support women. The only woman Davidson supports is herself.

    66. Andrew Mclean says:

      Robert,

      Sorry I have to disagree, you can’t allow lies to be continued to propagate and expect there to be no negative impact.

    67. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew Mclean

      I read that link when you first posted it a couple of days ago. There’s an even clearer statement reported in Chinese media just this morning.

      The deal” has definitely NOT been cancelled according to this report.

      With Labour and Conservative opponents of Sturgeon’s Scottish National Party blasting her government for its handling of the affair, by August, reports said the deal was dead.

      However, SinoFortone managing director Peter Zhang told China Daily this week the group has not pulled out of the deal and said no agreement with Edinburgh has been cancelled.

      “The deal is actually on hold,” Zhang said, citing a slowdown on the Scottish side as the reason.

      http://www.ecns.cn/business/2016/11-11/233547.shtml

    68. Brian Powell says:

      Arbroath1320

      I was at a manning polling station at the SGE and another guy there was a LibDem, he said there were a lot of those who did want to talk about Independence with a view to voting for it. Of course that was even before Brexit.

      That was in NE Fife, where Willie is MSP.

    69. Ken500 says:

      LibDem ‘pro Independence’. Just another stunt. They are funded from Westminster HQ. They try it every time any Election time. To try and save themselves. They were the Party of Home Rule. Look what happened to that. Just a bunch of total chancers. Liars. They enabled the Tories to make the complete mess. Do not trust them one inch. ‘You promised a Rose Garden’ Take off the rose coloured spectacles. They are craven liars.

      Vote SNP/SNP. Vote for Independence.

    70. Arbroath1320 says:

      It appears Brian that the news about the LD’s contemplating support for independence has not gone down too well with … erm … the Tories they are more than a bit pissed off to say the least! 😀

    71. DerekM says:

      How dare you Scots speak to the world without the UK doing it for you.

      That about sums it up we try to bring investment to grow the good balanced economy we have and at every turn there is some UK britnat twat saying no and doing everything they can to block it and ruin it.

      Some might say certain parts of the UK political system do not want to see Scotland be prosperous.

      Ruth is an utter disgrace to our parliament and so are her flunkies.

    72. Ken500 says:

      Ken McIntosh, as presiding Officer, is supposed to call out the liars. He does the complete opposite encourages them, because he is a complete liar. Then complains the Parliament is not held to account. ie by him. The guy ex BBC with the Mickey Mouse voice, who did not want to hear Scottish voices on BBC Scotland. A complete insult. Davidson thinks she can get away with it.

    73. sinky says:

      Thepnr says:
      11 November, 2016 at 1:08 pm
      @Andrew Mclean

      I read that link when you first posted it a couple of days ago. There’s an even clearer statement reported in Chinese media just this morning.

      The deal” has definitely NOT been cancelled according to this report.

      http://www.ecns.cn/business/2016/11-11/233547.shtml

      Someone with more time and contacts should send this link to BBC / STV/ MSM and see which would dare run with it.

    74. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Graham says: 11 November, 2016 at 12:18 pm:

      “All very well but this is after the event ,
      Nicola Sturgeon needs to drop the nice and reasonable approach to all the unionist parties , she should have wiped the floor with Davidson yesterday”

      What! And cut off the best recruitment agency the SNP has?

      Do you really imagine yourself, and your like, to be so intellectually superior that you are the only people in Scotland who can work out that the three unionist party leaders are liars and are intent upon damaging Scotland and Scots?

      If so you expose yourselves as not quite as intellectually superior as you imagine yourselves to be.

      All evidence points to the Scottish electorate becoming more, not less, aware of the lying and duplicity of the unionist parties and their media backers.

      The support for the SNP, SG and independence continues to grow and the voters satisfaction figures, not to mention Nicola’s personal popularity figures, continue to increase.

      It is plain that the campaign to blacken the SG’s record in government has failed and is continuing to fail. So just why do you want the first minister to move onto the attack and thus disrupt a winning formula?

    75. Ken500 says:

      Amnesty International is funded by George Soros. A right wing think tank. A fraud. Right wing propaganda.

    76. Glamaig says:

      OT
      Trump didn’t look overjoyed to be in the White House yesterday. And then theres this

      http://archive.is/B9AdZ

      he could be impeached before he even takes office

    77. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert J. Sutherland says: 11 November, 2016 at 12:20 pm:

      ” … But I wonder if this SNPbaaaaad thing is being well overplayed now, and thus being heavily discounted by people.”

      You bet your life it has, Robert. All evidence shows that their spiteful and duplicitous campaign has failed miserably but it is NOT up to we independence supporters to alert them to that fact.

      All their efforts have failed as the SNP government’s popularity continues to increase and Nicola Sturgeon’s personal popularity outstrips the others by the proverbial country mile.

      The maxim that, “You should never interrupt your enemy while he is making a mistake”, seems to be the right advice to follow in this case.

      May they continue with their mistake and may the SNP continue not to interrupt them while they make it.

    78. Ken500 says:

      America is already at War with itself, and others. If they impeach Donald Trump. There will be civil war in the US.

      30,000 Americans kill each other every year. (Gun Laws).

      The US has election for the Senate every two years. They can vote Democrate, against Trump then.

    79. Vegan god says:

      Still puzzled as to why SNP govt are admitting they need to learn lessons from this???

    80. Richardinho says:

      There’s a name for the kind of person Ruth Davidson is:

      ‘Typical Tory’

    81. Not a mention of the introduction of the latest Blue Tory Austerity benefits cap on Monday 7th which results in families losing between £50 and £120 a week in benefits, disability payments and supplementary pensions.
      Those who live in high rent areas will be forced to use money for food heating and clothing to pay their exorbitant rents or face eviction. Blue Tory Britain, Ruth Davidson’s Britain, don’t you just love it. The woman is evil..
      Meanwhile what does Wullie do?

      ‘I agree with Ruth Davidson’.

      Let’s waffle on about a Chinese MOU, and ignore the fact that Ruth Davidson is an out and out liar, yet again. Smirking the Queen’s Eleven Murdo joined in the Chinese Torture, and Carlow lied by asserting that the SNP hadappointed Trump as Trade Ambassador.

      No they didn’t : that would be Jack McConnell, Lord Fucking McConnell, now coining it in down in London Town.

      The Blue Tories were laughing their heads off during FMQ, cat calling and heckling like wee preppies in a fee paying school dining hall.
      They are evil, frankly. They are out to destroy Scotland and its people.
      Meanwhile the Presiding Officer, who like Davidson, worked for BBC Scotland, lets it all happen, without a challenge.

      I dipped into Scotland 2016.

      Sure as shooting the Chinese Boo Boo and a wee photie op for Davidson barnstorming, and a heavily edited couple of sentences from the FM, then two guest commentators, of whom I have never heard, uttering SNP BAD odious tossery.
      ‘Tossery’.

      There, I’ve coined a new word for the lies, and distortions of the BBC, their former employee and Strictly hopeful, Davidson, and her gaggle of List Hangers On.
      The Presiding Officer and also ex BBC man, Kenny Mac.lets it all unfold without intervention.
      Ruth Davidson lies on a weekly basis now.
      The Better Together Rainbow Alliance of Tory Unionists don’t even try to hide it any more.
      Their aim is to destroy any semblance of joined up government by any means.
      And the So Called Scottish Labour Party? Not a peep of protest at the latest round of Blue Tory cuts to the poorest, and rewards to the richest.
      Time we got out of this corrupt bloated little Union.

    82. Robert Peffers says:

      @shug says: 11 November, 2016 at 12:35 pm:

      “Telling me this stuff is all fine but how do we get it in the face of no voters
      It is no voters we need to hear and understand and change their position”

      That’s the whole point being made, Shug.

      You will not, “Get it in the face”, of the NOI voters by stopping the Yoon Loons from doing it for then you will have removed the evidence by removing the lies and duplicity.

      The point is that as the voter’s satisfaction with the SG’s handling of Scotland continues to increase and as Nicola’s personal popularity keeps going up it is obvious that it must be former NO voters who are moving to have more satisfaction with the SG’s performance.

      This is a double gain, for these were previous NO voters, so for every one now satisfied with the SG it is one less satisfied with a Unionist party.

      To put that another way – it has to have been in a NO voters face for that NO voter to now be satisfied by the SG’s performance.

      “There is also a need to get journalists to understand we know they are lying”

      I have no doubt they have known all along that we knew they are liars. They just underestimated their own piss and importance to make us change our minds.

      ” … even the worst of them will have a glimmer of morality”

      Don’t you believe that for a moment, Shug. These people are without normal morals of any kind.

    83. Andrew Mclean says:

      the NPR

      I read your link it quotes the same source, I have emailed my MSP, and Global times, I will see what Johnstone press know?

    84. Andrew Mclean says:

      Imagine we lived in a country where the majority of national press actually told the truth?

      Crazy thoughts you have when pukeing,

    85. Ian says:

      For the record eh? I’ve never heard an official reason from the Tories or Labour about why they hid the McCrone report for 30 years. So Ms Davidson & Dugdale, as your parties current representatives, why was the McCrone report hidden by successive UK governments for so long. Because without knowing the official reasons for a deceit of such magnitude, we can only assume that your parties are lying fraudulent little Westminster’s that care nothing about Scotland, and that they still are and always will be. Until proven otherwise, such a state of affairs needs to be foremost in people’s minds when listening to the ‘UK’ parties latest claims.

    86. Phil Robertson says:

      potter

      You’re looking in the wrong place. Try the Norwegian government pension fund’s Ethics Council. You will find

      14.10.2014 China Railway Group Ltd. The Council on Ethics recommended the exclusion of China Railway Group Ltd. due to an unacceptable risk that the company has been involved in gross corruption. According to information obtained by the Council there is a high degree of probability that CRG and a subsidiary paid bribes to government officials for contracts regarding construction of railways and housing projects.

      CRG was, of course, one of the government’s partners.

    87. heedtracker says:

      Phil Robertson says:

      Is that what flip flopped Ruthie babes Phil?

    88. Ken500 says:

      Boris Alexander Johnston. (Google) UK Foreign Secetary. Out on a limb. Out of the loop. One of the most unpopular MP’s in London. (Brexit) London voted to stay in. The majority of Tories MP’s in Westminster want to stay in the EU. The majority in the UK want to stay in the EU,

    89. Robert Graham says:

      With all due respect as they say , Mr Robert Peffers yer talking Pish in my humble opinion ,The way the SNP are handling the Unionist parties by treating them with respect might suite you but i suspect not everyone would agree ,
      Me and my type eh really and what the f/k do you know of Me and my type ? . Who made you the king of the hill ? and your opinion is the only one to be listened to , and if you want to make it personal carry on Friend , by the way Friend is not a term of endearment where i come from , What’s up having a bad day Friend ?

    90. heedtracker says:

      Phil Robertson says:
      11 November, 2016 at 2:19 pm

      14.10.2014 China Railway Group Ltd. The Council on Ethics recommended the exclusion of China Railway Group Ltd

      They’re quite a big company arent they Phil. Much too big for silly little Scotland region ofcourse, for teamGBists that is.

      Revenue Increase US$ 105.93 billion (2015)
      Total assets Increase US$ 110.10 billion (2015)[1]

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Railway_Group_Limited

      To be fair Phil, its not as if oil poor Norway can afford to turn away this level investment is it? Oops wrong side of the North Sea, the side that’s let another country run its economy for it.

      And hasn’t it been lovely Phil?

    91. Andrew Mclean says:

      Why all the indigenous comments on bribery, I thought that was the British way, I could list all the companies, but my fingers would destroy my machine.

    92. Scott says:

      Ken500 says:

      11 November, 2016 at 1:21 pm
      Ken500 says:

      Ken McIntosh, as presiding Officer, is supposed to call out the liars.

      I have written to Ken McIntosh asking if calling the SNP Government a shower should be allowed people might think this petty by me but anything to get at Tank as she gets away with to much.Will post reply if I get one.

    93. Andrew Mclean says:

      I think the only similarity between the Brexit referendum and the independence referendum is that given the chance again the results would be different.

    94. Chic McGregor says:

      So it’s China deal SNPBAD.
      No China deal SNPBAD.

      I swear, Yoon neurons must be in some new ultra weird kind of quantum state.

    95. Smallaxe says:

      O/T
      To Smallaxe,

      Rt Hon David Mundell MP
      Member of Parliament for Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale
      House of Commons
      London, SW1A 0AA
      Thank you very much for contacting me. This is an automated response to confirm that your email has been received and will be dealt with as soon as possible. I receive a large volume of mail from constituents and would therefore appreciate your patience in awaiting a response.
      If you would like to discuss your enquiry, please call my constituency staff on 01683 222746 or email helen [dot] gardner [at] parliament [dot] uk

      No reply so far, maybe it is because I made an inquiry and not an “enquiry”. I wrote to Fundly Mundelly on the 10th of October! I will not be a pedant about “would therefore” and correct it to would,therefore, OH, I JUST DID.

      I will not be giving Him any Peace.

    96. Smallaxe says:

      Andrew Mclean:

      I think another similarity would be Andrew,that the Yoons FKD up both referenda.

      Peace Always my Good Friend

    97. sassenach says:

      Scott @2-45pm

      I wrote to The Presiding Officer concerning the “Mooth’s” lies when she quoted those English NHS figures in Holyrood.

      Don’t hold yer breath! Took a few weeks and then a ‘nowt to do wi me, pal’ reply!!

    98. Bob Mack says:

      Sadly, we are aware of political parties telling downright lies, but that is WE.

      There are hundreds of thousands of people out there who never read Wings or visit indy sites at all. They cannot all be raving Yoons. If they are then we will have problems at indy2. Lots of folk rely on their news from the media of one type or another ,but probably TV more than most.

      The so called television reporting and in particular the BBC will never allow the truth to be seen completely. I agree with the posters who feel we should more forcefully call out these liars.

      Our options are certainly limited but the billboard campaign is a good start.

      Our opponents sit holding most of the Aces in forming public opinion but we are not beaten yet. I can only hope the SNP is hanging fire till nearer the time. We have the weapons to fight back,some conventional ,others less so, but nonetheless as effective.

    99. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew Mclean

      Dr Peter Zhang Managing Director of the SinoFortone Group is also currently Deputy Director Overseas Department, China Railway Construction Engineering No.3 Group where for 6 years previously he was General Manager.

      As you know these are the two companies that were signatories to the MOU with the Scottish Government.

      https://uk.linkedin.com/in/peter-zhang-a4aab92b

      It is also very interesting that this group has committed to £5.2 Billion of investment in England & Wales in the last 12 months without a murmur from the Tories.

      From the BBC https://archive.is/Rh9JS

      Ruthie and the Tories – Pot, Kettle, Black.

    100. Bit rich of the Norwegians whose own oil company,Statoil, has been fined for corruption,

      `in 2006 the company accepted a $10.5 million fine for violating the U.S Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

      A Statoil consultant and 2 others were tried in November 2011, for having received 7 million Norwegian kroner, in exchange for contracts and payments totaling “several tenfold” of millions of Norwegian kroner.`

      Corrupt practices in big business is like drugs in sport,if you want to be at the top you have to do it,

      ask BAE,Rolls Royce,BP,brown envelope to Nissan.

    101. CameronB Brodie says:

      Macart
      The moment of my self-empowerment was when my Head of Dep. informed me that they weren’t able to ‘award’ me honours. I’ll not go in to details, but for a man who had previously towered over me, he did appear to rapidly take on much diminished presence before I left. That’s how I remember it anyway and one of the many reasons I’m channeling a lot of hostility. Hope I’m not concerning anyone.

      Won’t be long. 😉

    102. Iain More says:

      The Tory Yoons proving once again that they are motivated by nothing more than being anti Scottish. Trashing Scotland really gets their juices flowing.

      Phil Robertson – the SG better not sign up to any MoUs with Westmidden then as there is no more corrupt institution on the planet.

      Meanwhile OT

      Leonard Cohen dies, this has been one stinkin awful week!

    103. heedtracker says:

      If you have tears, prepare to shed some for the tory press

      Papers go bust,

      http://archive.is/n2mMK

      From

      “But the crisis facing both newspapers and their publishers is exactly the same: their business model, which is based around advertising revenue, is in the process of being destroyed.”

      to

      “That’s why I support the call by the Media Reform Coalition (MRC) and National Union of Journalists to impose a 1% levy on the operations of Google and Facebook in order to fund public service reporting.”

      My local paper, neo fascist Voice of the North Press and Journal, is currently running a ferocious Scots.gov smear campaign based on trying to enrage Aberdonians that their hard earned council tax is NOT going to local services schools but is really being funnelled down to Glasgow by the evil and cruel Nic Sturgeon and isn’t that a terrible terrible thing! So Vote tory.

      And that’s just the tip of a very wide ranging, very aggressive vote Tory/vote NO campaign by the P&J.

      Begging Google and Facebook to chip in, is oddly toryboy though.

    104. Thepnr says:

      If this potential investment is scuppered before even getting started we know where to look for this failure.

      The blame lies squarely with all three opposition “we’re Better Together parties” and I’ve no doubt Westminster Department for
      International Trade.

    105. potter says:

      Phil Robertson,
      aye ok found it, http://etikkradet.no/en/
      Norges Bank (NBIM) manages the Fund and makes decisions to exclude companies from the Fund’s portfolio based on advice from the Council.Norges Bank provides a list of companies excluded from the Fund’s portfolio.
      https://www.nbim.no/en/responsibility/exclusion-of-companies/
      which company?

    106. Iain More says:

      Totally OT

      Well I did a bit of reading on Mike Pence and thought OMG he is a bigger nut job than even Trump. Mind you the Brit Yoons make him and Trump look like reasonable people.

    107. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      @ heedtracker says at 3:29 pm “Begging Google and Facebook to chip in, is oddly toryboy though.”

      Probably the least Google can do to help out the Tories, seeing as Osborne let them dodge so much tax.

    108. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      When the media is not merely so obviously lop-sidedly partisan (pace Kevin McKenna) but actually failing in its professional duty to reveal the lies and half-truths, getting the facts through to ordinary folk is the real issue.

      I’m beginning to wonder if what indy needs is a free paper like the Metro to be left around for people to pick up and glance through. To publicly confront chancers like Buffalo Gal with their outrageous, cynical flips.

    109. heedtracker says:

      Jockanese Wind Talker

      Google dont give up any cash ever. Its not even clear what the Graun ligger means either,

      “I support the call by the Media Reform Coalition (MRC) and National Union of Journalists to impose a 1% levy”

      Nice but who are they calling on to impose this new google tax anyway?

      Ghastly irony UKOK style, same tory hacks help planet toryboy destroy unionism in their UK and yet here we are, their unions pleading planet toryboy for help, now that its their turn to look into the abyss.

      They cant all work at the BBC either. Although it may explain the ongoing mass UKOK hackdom grovelfest to the BBC.

      First they came for the miners, steel workers, dockers…

    110. Onwards says:

      LibDems won’t back independence.
      Unionism is the reason for most of their votes. Tories voting tactically against the SNP.

      No-one really knows what they stand for as a party. They will sell out any principles to get in power.

    111. Swiss Perspective says:

      A monument to hypocrisy.

      … or amnesia.

      … or both.

    112. Thepnr says:

      @potter

      That’s funny, the China Railway Group don’t seem to be on that list of excluded companies from the Norway oil fund. I notice too that it was updated on 30th Sept 2016.

      Is somebody telling porkies?

    113. Smallaxe says:

      O/T:again sorry.
      GREENPEACE

      Hi Smallaxe,

      A truckload of plastic waste enters our oceans every minute.[1]

      When I first heard this statistic I couldn’t believe it. But the evidence is all around us – from tiny microbeads in our toothpaste to images of seabirds with stomachs full of plastic. Plastic pollution is out of control.

      In the UK alone, 35 million plastic bottles are used and discarded every single day. But how can we stem this tide of plastic?

      Tell Roseanna Cunningham, http://www.roseannacunningham.com, to create a bottle deposit return scheme in Scotland.

      Deposit return schemes are not a new idea, but they could help provide the solution to this unprecedented new plastic problem.

      The concept is simple – when you buy a bottled drink you pay a little bit extra, and when you return the bottle, you get your money back. Not only does this incentivize more people to return their bottles to collection points, it also puts pressure on the companies who produce bottles to ensure that their materials are recyclable.

      A recent poll showed that 93% of people in Scotland are concerned about the effect of plastic litter in the ocean on marine wildlife and birds.

      Pieces of plastic end up in the stomachs of seabirds, fish, and whales – but that’s just part of the problem. Over many years, plastic breaks down into smaller and smaller pieces which mix with the sand on the seabed. At this point, it’s almost impossible to remove this plastic from the ocean.

      There is already a huge amount of public and political support for the creation of a scheme in Scotland. Tell Roseanna Cunningham to listen to the concerns of Scottish people and take action to protect our oceans.

      Scotland was ahead of the curve on the plastic bag charge – now there’s an opportunity to lead the way in the UK towards solving this plastic problem.

      With thanks,

      Alice

      [1] Source: http://science.sciencemag.org/content/347/6223/768

    114. Walter Scott says:

      There’s a common link that binds the New Right. Lying. Trump won an election by lying. Brexit came about by lies that were laughable. £350 million a week for the NHS etc. Davidson, Johnson, Farage have poisoned politics & what’s worse, they don’t care where it will lead. Ruth Davidson takes smug lying Unionism to new lows. However, The Mail & Express have her as 1st minister in waiting refusing to accept that 20% of the vote is a problem for her.
      She has showed that sabotaging Scotland will be to her benefit. Fat Boab and the clownish Rennie need to be put straight in the chamber at every opportunity and not just on this website. Come on Sturgeon, give it back with interest.

    115. heedtracker says:

      Thepnr says:

      I cant see the Chinese corp on that list either. They also didn’t like Boeing and Airbus either.

    116. Andrew Mclean says:

      The NPR

      Something’s fishy here, has Westminster been leaning on China to kill any investment,
      To answer that first forget the names, regardless of what they call themselves they are the Chinese government.
      Next look at the timeline.
      Next look at the intervention of the Westminster government on halting existing investment.
      Next look how quickly that review took place, really it takes them years to decide anything, third runway as a case in point.
      Next look where the story about the cancellation came from,
      Next look at the statement this week fro the MD of the company involved.
      Next all media in China is state controlled
      Next read the article in the Chinese media, what are they trying to say, actually they are not hiding it one bit, they actually had it in top news and economy least someone missed it.
      Next look at the conservatives in Holyrood lining up to be the saviour, possibly or just putting the knife in, the knife that was given them by Mz T May.

      Most of that is fact, some conjecture, but it is all logical.

      What we are seeing is a con, a dupe, but this is not Machiavellian, it’s to in your face for that!

      This song has a long way to go.

    117. Thepnr says:

      @Andrew Mclean

      Agreed that this story has a way to go yet.

      PS Why do you call me the NPR?

    118. Dan Huil says:

      For god’s sake there must a journalist out there who works for the [for want of a better term] traditional media who has the guts and integrity to follow up on “Chinagate” and Westminster’s duplicitous role therein.

    119. Stoker says:

      You know, i think it would be quite something if we Wingers could organise a wee 20-page WOS Newsletter, to be issued 3-times per year.

      One focused on all the lies and contradictions etc of Yon Dim Ruth and her branch office, the next focused on Dippy Dug and her branch office and the 3rd focused on Wee Willie Stinky and his branch office.

      That way we are sure to deliver them in the areas that matter, ie; only areas where they have strong(ish) support, whether at national (Scottish) level or at local level.

      Crowdfunded and delivered by WOS. It would also bring a power of advertising and, hopefully, new readers to WOS.

      Just thought i’d throw that idea out there.

    120. David MacGille-Mhuire says:

      Ruth Davidson is a liar.

      A liar of the first order (and so is torrances of urine and MacDimwit et al).

      Sue me.

      Go ahead and sue me you shower of British nationalist, lying thugs.

      Sue me in an international court of justice where you will be held to account.

      Go ahead and sue me.

      Lying, immoral and intellectual head fucks.

      Sue me you unadulterated, lying, ducking and diving, strangers to the truth animals.

      The Indian sub-continent simply borrowed your animalistic techniques.

      Sue me, Rennie, Dugdale, and Davidson.

      Go for it, you cohort of thugees.

    121. Andrew Mclean says:

      Thepnr,

      Sorry in bed with noroviras, not the best bedroom partner, didn’t mean anything by it.
      I actually stopped to puke, but I suppose that’s to much information! Anyway “Deep Throat”.

      Waiting for a response from Globe times on their take, also Alex Neil, so wil see where this goes. I do know that Johnstone press are scrambling about, but as for the National no response yet, so I suppose the Herald are just waiting to AP send them some copy, the Washington post didn’t wait for AP! Deep throat, beats burly guys any day.

    122. Onwards says:

      Thepnr says:
      11 November, 2016 at 4:06 pm

      That’s funny, the China Railway Group don’t seem to be on that list of excluded companies from the Norway oil fund. I notice too that it was updated on 30th Sept 2016.
      ——

      Even if it was, Norway can afford to be picky when they have an $880 billion oil fund.

      We aren’t in the same position, and so long as England is happy to accept Chinese investment, especially with Scottish taxpayer subsidy, then unionist politicians can’t complain.

      We shouldn’t be turning up our nose at deals that can provide cheap infrastructure or housing that is sorely needed.

    123. Ruthie Rennie and Dugdale are only doing what they have been for ages now running down the S.N.P. With no comeback I do not blame them I blame the S.N.P. For allowing it to go on they seem to have no backbone to respond I mean it’s nice to be nice but it’s daft to be saft for goodness sake fight back slaughter them with the truth

    124. wull says:

      Not sure we should lament any collapse of ‘deals’ with China. Although I cannot claim any experience or direct involvement, I have witnessed such ‘deals’ being implemented in other places. Especially in different African countries.

      I may be biased, but it alays seemed to me that there was only one real winner. And it wasn’t any of the African countries. Even where there seemed to be short-term gain it always seemed to be followed by long-term pain.

      No one, I suppose, does ‘trade deals’ for the benefit of the other. Partners are for exploiting … O’leary’s Law, perhaps? And the Chinese are a very able people … who do now have considerable experience in these things.

      Scotland, beware!

      With regard to the Chinese company saying in other parts of the Press that the potential ‘deal’ is not dead, that the behaviour of the Opposition Parties is not a hindrance to it, that the problem is the Scottish Government’s inexperience in negotiating these things … and that they are awaiting the SG to come back with a response to some proposition or other that is not set out … etc.

      Beware of all that too!

      Why would anyone automatically believe that such statements are true? I would tend to think that Nicola Sturgeon told the parliament exactly what the Chinese company told her. Which is perfectly correct on her part, but does not mean that she / the SG is being set up.

      The company can easily say one thing to her, and come out with something else in the Press immediately afterwards. Not at all impossible …

      Maybe – who knows? – this is all part of ‘negotiating tactics’. How to embarrass and put pressure on the potential partner in order to pressurise him into giving you what you want. Probably on even less favourable terms than you originally offered …

      And surely Chinese companies are quite clever enough to exploit the differences between the UK and the Scottish governments … Playing it now one way, now the other – al to win the prize, get what they want. Even eeming to help one or the other, or even do a favour for one against the other, but for one reason only: in view of gaining Chinese advantage, and lining Chinese pockets …

      When you play these kind of ‘Chinese Chequers’ – with very big ‘cheques’ involved indeed – expect surprises. And also ‘layers’ and ‘layers’ of – well, what else can you call it? – deceit. No one does a ‘trade deal’ out of charity – the aim is profit. And my ‘profit’ is always likely to be ‘your’ loss …

      I may be over-suspicious, but I will be quite happy if this particular deal does indeed fall through.

      I also think we need to be within a trading block that has rules to help us save ourselves from our own potential folly. Rules, too, however imperfect, that provide some safeguards to ordinary people, not least from their own governments. The EU, it seems to me, is the only sensible long-term option for both these things.

      England and Wales, it seems to me, have lost their heads. I don’t glory in that. It is really very sad. And where will it end for them? Who wants to sail alone in such shark-infested global waters?

      Scotland beware.

      Let’s fight to maintain what we voted for: full European citizenship.

    125. Andrew Mclean says:

      Anyway true story I once new someone who was heavily involved with Amnesty International, but also previously involved with a certain government agency, You know the one, name escapes me, all to do with protecting British interests abroad.

      Funny old world.

    126. Ken500 says:

      Sky complaining about fake News.

      How low can they go.

      Trump won the US election by being more truthful . He uses brash language which get misreporting, intentionally. Like many people do. Doesn’t swear. Trump was more truthful than the other candidate. Clinton didn’t lose because she was a woman. She lost because of Her attributes. Obama made false promises and did not keep them.

      At least Trump can count and read a balance sheet and negotiate a Deal. If Trump can save the US from bankruptcy. He has done the world a favour. Things have to change.

    127. Andrew Mclean says:

      Wull

      Was waiting for the “oh you don’t want to do remember your a sweaty jock, know your place” argument, or is my précis to harsh?

    128. Hamish100 says:

      The First Minister should have realised by now that trying to be polite to a tory, liebour or lib who? is deemed to be a sign of weakness at FM questions.
      The Presiding Officer will not intervene.
      So FM attack the lies DIRECTLY.
      Thanks

    129. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      Walter Scott @ 16:09:

      There’s a common link that binds the New Right. Lying.

      For the perpetrators it’s just a cynical game. An act. Stockbroker Farage as everyman? Rich man Trump as saviour of the downtrodden masses? Trump himself is probably a metro liberal, socially speaking. The trouble begins because there’s a whole lot of mean-minded real people out there who believe them, and are now validated and energised by them.

      Thus as a consequence you get racist outbursts against foreigners in the street in England, and what was reported by CNN this afternoon, kids in a US high school hallway chanting “white power”.

      You just can’t imagine the reverse happening if Clinton had won. Trump, Farage and their like have released evil genies into the world that they may well not be able to control.

    130. Dan Huil says:

      @wull 4:45pm

      It’s not the final outcome of any deal which matters now; it’s Westminster’s role in all of this mess which matters now.

    131. Gary45% says:

      Robert Graham@12.15
      Totally agree.
      Its time the SNP “grew some” no more Mr Nice Guy, time to put the boot in.

    132. Ken500 says:

      The Holyrood Electoral system is rigged. The Unionist rigged it to their advantage. So much for Democracy. 3rd rate rejects. Not one person one vote. One person – cancel out your vote. The electorate will get wise.

      The Greens don’t promote women. 6 MPS male liars. Manipulating, unpopular pressure group. Their campaigning and lies at the last Holyrood election was a complete revelation. Getting vote on the SNP coat tails from SNP voters. To attack the SNP. A disgrace. Turncoats. They could cost Scotland jobs and investment and muck up Independence. Colluding with the Unionists.

    133. Ken500 says:

      Trump doesn’t suffer fools gladly. The Tory Cabinet/Westminster/Unionists had better look out. Chalk and cheese.

      10% of US voters are of Scottish descent. Trump gained the Presidency by 1% Trump gained the Presidency because of the Green/Independent vote. There are Senate elections every two years. A large Scottish lobby.

      Farague and Johnston are a couple of fools. Farague is an alcoholic who needs proper rehab counselling. Johnston needs counselling.

    134. ScottishPsyche says:

      China will do what is best for China. Are they bothered by the snark of the pack? Probably not. If Hinckley was a bargaining tool then they surely went for what is best for them. They are pragmatists though and deals may be on the cards at another time. The hypocrisy of the Lib Dems going on about human rights is astounding.

      Leasky is becoming a worry, so defensive and prickly. Is he well? Makes sweeping superficial associations, accuses others of the same and then blocks and runs away. An odd mixture of faux humility – ‘what do i know I’m an ever so ‘umble reporter’ but if you question the authority of the press then you are Trump and Trump is badder than the SNP or maybe not. Cybernats definitely are as bad as Trump though and Trump is definitely the new Hitler.

    135. Stoker says:

      Re my comments at 4:39pm.

      Just want to clarify the following:
      “Crowdfunded and delivered by WOS. It would also bring a power of advertising and, hopefully, new readers to WOS.”

      It would create a power of advertising *for* WOS and hopefully bring in a lot of new readers. At very least it would get these gophers exposed in their own back yards for the liars they are.

      Even a wee 10-page WOS Newsletter would do the trick.

    136. Ken500 says:

      North Oil and Gas sector has been badly affected by the Westminster Gov (Osbourne) putting (illegal unfair) high taxes/tarriff on the North Sea Oil sector.(when prices had fallen) Cutting production and losing £Billions and thousands of jobs. Then importing untaxed fracked Gas from the US and Oil.

      Damaging the Scottish economy. Losing thousands of jobs and £Billions of investment. Putting up the balance of payment deficit and the debt.

    137. Thepnr says:

      If Scotland can remain in the EU then the potential for inward investment is vast. Never mind what it collects now but a Scottish government collecting it’s own taxes from this additional inward investment will have huge implications for all in Scotland.

      I’m not even talking about jobs and the better infrastructure may bring I’m talking about an increase in Scottish government revenue that will allow them to invest in the things that will make ordinary Scots life better.

      Better health care, better roads, better training, better education. The list of possibilities is endless and is one of the main reasons for Westminster trying to prevent control of our own destiny as their system of government will be shown up for what it really is. A big fat lie and a disgrace.

      Greedy politicians, pigs feeding at the trough belonging to the majority of the people at the behest of lobbyists for big corperations, disgraceful people the lot of them. They, the Tories would be out on their arse in a flash once a properly run government working on behalf of it’s people embarrasses them by showing how things SHOULD be done.

      We need to vote Yes in order to end this corruption surrounding us.

    138. Ken500 says:

      Leask will be the next to go for telling lies. They destroy their own industry.

    139. Ian McCubbin says:

      This is just what is expected from puppet Ruth of Westminster edtablishment. The game is not new a near copy of Darien Project events of 1700s.
      Also this fits neatly with the recent release on twitter of utube BBC Alba banned programme caled Banned programme on Scottish Oil (The McCrone report)
      All the jigsaw piecs now in place. When will SNP, Lib Dems, Greens lead wirh true education of people of Scotland about recent History and political events?

    140. Dr Jim says:

      The trouble for the Ruth Davidson party is the lies are having to come too close together now thus leaving no room for the traditional voter memory loss

      This is an ongoing difficulty for the entirety of the Yoon party now as Mrs May Bosset in chief is sloshing out liquid crap almost by the minute, so keeping up with Ruths own lies while attempting to spray deoderant over Westmisters projectile diah sh Jobbies is now insurmountable

      First Ministers Questions now’s an entertainment show viewed by more and more X Factor pensioners who are laughing uproariously from their sofas, so much so voting may soon well be required to oust the worst contestants
      See, it used to be pensioners didn’t watch FMQs, now it’s a must watch like Emmerdale Easties Corrie and the Nations favourite Goggle Box

      Fame is now Ruthies except she needs more makeup to go with the clown antics

    141. Legerwood says:

      Onwards @ 4.43pm

      Norway, as in the Norwegian Government, have been trying to mend fences with China since 2010 when the peace prize committee awarded the Peace Prize to a Chinese dissident who was in a Chinese prison at the time.

      http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/05/08/world/politics-diplomacy-world/norway-shuns-dalai-lama-hoping-mend-china-ties/#.WCX64h-ny2c

      The Norwegian Pension Fund on the other hand is the one who is ‘picky’ when it comes to which companies it approves or disapproves of. Some of the UK Pension Funds can also be picky if put under enough pressure.

      People, particularly those who criticised the MoU otherwise known as the ‘deal’, kept referring to Norway banning the Chinese Company clearly hoping everyone would think it was the Government when it was not. It was the Pension Fund. At one point the Fund had Siemens AG on their Observation list because of alleged corruption. Decidedly picky.

      Interesting that the Chinese companies in question are no longer on the banned list.

    142. Chang Sha says:

      @Juteman
      A Norwegian quizmaster no doubt

    143. Effijy says:

      Yes Kim Jong Un’s wee bully, dictator
      Of a sister is a liar who hopes to destroy
      All things Scottish on behalf of her Westminster
      Bosses.

      We all know this to be a fact, but pretty much
      Only Wossers with the help of the Rev can see
      The truth.

      We are back to facing the problem that al of
      The U.K. Media will do anything to back her up.

      I pray that the Billboard campaign can condense
      Lies like these that the masses can see.

      I’d like to see billboards advertising WoS itself.

    144. scottieDog says:

      Hmmm interesting to see how lib dem constitutional question pans out..

    145. Robert Peffers says:

      @Andrew Mclean says: 11 November, 2016 at 1:06 pm:

      “Sorry I have to disagree, you can’t allow lies to be continued to propagate and expect there to be no negative impact.”

      It is, of course your prerogative to disagree with me, Andrew, but my point is valid. Permit me to attempt to explain just why.

      You are correct in so far as, “you can’t allow lies to be continued”, but the point is there is, in this case, no need to prevent the lies being continued. This is because all evidence points too the general public working out for themselves that the opposition claims are lies and omissions and the proof of that is the increasing figures showing the voter’s satisfaction with the Scottish Government’s performance and the FM’s own personal popularity and the public’s satisfaction with her performance.

      If these figures were decreasing then it would be proof the unionist SNP BAD campaign was working. As it stands the figures show the public is moving towards SG support.

      Then there is the point that if the SNP goes on the offensive that there would be the reaction activists are heart fully sick of hearing on doorsteps.

      “Thae politicians ir aw the same”. is a sure indication that the person with such a view has concluded the SNP, and their activists, are equally guilty of lies, omissions and underhand tactics.

      Thing is the trend is towards the SNP and not against them

    146. Famous15 says:

      “Under an English heaven”

    147. stewartb says:

      @Andrew Mclean at 5.07pm

      Thanks for the City AM link on the dangers of independence for the oil & gas sector. Just had a quick look and candidly the lack of analysis beggars belief.

      This reporting of a BMI Research report, which you can’t see unless you pay £820, seems, intuitively, bizarre.

      It states that Brexit is not having any impact on North Sea oil & gas production forecasts. This would be notable of course, since this is despite: (a) all the current uncertainties around in terms of the UK’s future trading relations; (b) uncertainties around the UK’s short to medium term economic performance, and also ( c ) in advance of knowing what the new Chancellor of the Exchequer will do to shift Tory Government policy in the Autumn Statement to mitigate any short term negatives of Brexit. So none of this matters much to prevailing uncertainties.

      However, and apparently contradicting the above view that Brexit is forecast to have no effect, the marketing blurb on the BMI Research web site states “The UK’s vote to leave the EU has added to the headwinds facing the nation’s oil and gas producers”. OK, so ‘headwinds’ but no effect on production forecasts!

      Therefore we should be relaxed about Brexit, but we should be afraid as “a successful second bid for Scottish independence could slash output in the region”. Forget Brexit, forget UK government policies, forget oil price changes, (presumably forget any Trump effects), it is a successful Indyref2 (uniquely) that would do the damage!!

      BMI Research reportedly states that: “Oil production is expected to grow through the 2018, driven by investments made in the days of higher oil prices between 2010 and 2014.” So industry investments for the longer term were made in the North Sea anyway in the period leading up to Indyref1, despite all its dangerous uncertainties.

      Independence is predicted to lead to “significant delays to new project investment, reduction of reinvestments, more job losses” despite going on to say that there is an upside scenario in which production could reach 1.1m bpd through among other things “reduction to the area’s frequently-slammed corporation tax”.

      Yes, I know that the government of an independent Scotland could introduce a tax regime more favourable to the oil & gas sector than that which the UK government applies but the implication of the City AM article, oddly, is that only a UK government could possibly change the tax regime, of course never the government of an independent Scotland!

      The really odd thing about this City AM article is in this extract: “If Scotland were to initiate leaving the UK, there would be …… more decommissioning due to tax incentives offered by Westminster.” So on leaving the UK, oil and gas production in Scottish waters would fall due to more decommissioning of production facilities resulting from tax incentives offered by Westminster? (shakes head!)

    148. Andrew Mclean says:

      Ok Robert, but what is this mechanism that the electorate use to fathom out that the daily news reports are in fact propaganda, my own mother said that the NHS was in crisis, she worked in the NHS as a midwifery sister, when I said the Scottish NHS was better performing than any other, she said ” that’s not what the TV or papers say”.

      So again Robert I have to disagree, I have never heard of telling the truth or pointing out falsehoods is going on the offensive!

    149. David says:

      The Norwegian Pension Fund is absolutely correct if they have Siemens on their Observation List.
      Siemens were heavily involved in a price-fixing cartel, and admitted to paying bribes, big bribes, in order to win contracts to build the Sao Paolo Metro in Brazil.

      http://www.dw.com/en/siemens-bribery-case-spreads-to-brazilian-politics/a-17268276

      There are a lot of European engineering firms that have dirty little secrets. Think of all the car makers who cheated on emission tests for years.

      As I get older and wiser, the institutions that I trust get fewer and fewer.

    150. K1 says:

      This critique of journalism during the US election is applicable to ours (well ah say ‘journalism’ in the Scottish context ‘advisedly’…smirk) in Scotland, we’ve been going on about this for years, this is what yer Leasks and Torrances fail to understand.

      ‘Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press’

      http://archive.is/mAZcH

    151. Glamaig says:

      Ian McCubbin says:
      11 November, 2016 at 5:32 pm

      Also this fits neatly with the recent release on twitter of utube BBC Alba banned programme caled Banned programme on Scottish Oil (The McCrone report)

      Thanks for that, havent seen it before, heres the link

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM0JsBjcx2E

    152. Legerwood says:

      O/T

      BBC reporting that Ms Sturgeon will be addressing the Irish Senate on her visit to Dublin later this month.

    153. Nana says:

      @Legerwood

      STV covering the story

      http://archive.is/bLZ4g

    154. Andy-B says:

      It illustrates beautifully that Ruth Davidson’s task, probably set by her London masters, is to do down Scotland and the SNP at every turn.

    155. Dan Huil says:

      I hope NS, in her visit to Dublin, speaks out loud and clear on Westminster’s promise that there will be no hard border between N Ireland and the Irish Rebublic post-brexit. It would be great if Ireland’s representatives could speak out in favour of an independent Scotland having the same border conditions with Westminster.

    156. Fred says:

      I’ve aye maintained that the Government, or the SNP itself, need a clued-up press officer to respond to this shite on a daily basis. He/she won’t be short of work!

    157. Cherry says:

      Hi people I haven’t read all posts but I read this article

      http://www.ecns.cn/business/2016/11-11/233547.shtml

      on reading right to the bottom it appears that tory MSP Dean Lockhart was the spokesman. Now i googled him and it would appear that he is a former business man, who has a huge amount of experience in the Global market place in particular with Governments! Could it be that they are planning to make the SNP government look incompotant as part of the article says:

      “We need a calm assessment of all this to see if a potentially lucrative deal with China can be reached,” Lockhart said at the height of the debate. “These things can’t be allowed to fall through because of SNP bungling.”

      https://www.deanlockhart.org.uk/

      http://www.ecns.cn/business/2016/11-11/233547.shtml

    158. Robert Peffers says:

      @Robert Graham says: 11 November, 2016 at 2:36 pm:

      “With all due respect as they say , Mr Robert Peffers yer talking Pish in my humble opinion “

      I appreciate your, “Due Respect”, Robert. You are always welcome to express your opinions as I am to express mine.

      “The way the SNP are handling the Unionist parties by treating them with respect might suite you but i suspect not everyone would agree”

      Taking your, and several other expressed opinions on this thread the evidence quite clearly indicates that there are those who hold very similar opinions to those expressed by you. They too are welcome to both express and hold such opinions. There is, though, a slight difference in how these opinions are expressed and how I have expressed my opinion. When I expressed my opinion I offered reasons for not only holding such opinions but also why they were, (in my opinion), correct. Have you done so?

      “Me and my type eh really and what the f/k do you know of Me and my type?”

      Well lets just see, shall we. I know you hold opinions that seem not to have any real substance or reason to be held except that they are your expressed opinion. Which was, of course, the reason I made a reply regarding that opinion and offered, (as my opinion), that you were wrong in holding such opinions. Are you seriously attempting to claim that my claims of the SG gaining public support and the party gaining members is untrue? For that is the evidence I offered in support of my opinion.

      “Who made you the king of the hill”?

      Considering I make no claims of being king of anything that seems to be a somewhat strange question – even for you to ask.

      ” … and your opinion is the only one to be listened to “.

      Now just where did you obtain that little gem, Robert?

      Have I ever said my opinions were the only ones to be listened to or were the only ones to hold?

      ” … and if you want to make it personal carry on Friend”

      Get real, Robert. This is an open forum and as such is a venue for commenters to debate, (mainly the topics set by Rev Stu). Seems the concept of debate has escaped your notice and it is you, not I, attempting to shut debate down.

      ” … by the way Friend is not a term of endearment where i come from”,

      Which beggars the obvious question of just where are you coming from with such expressions?

      You did, after all begin this diatribe by saying, “With all due respect”. Now you seem to be attempting to tell the forum that the correct meaning of words, where you come from, does not mean the same thing to the rest of us where we come from. So when you say, “All due respect in must mean you are showing NO respect and your, “friends”, are not your friends”, where you come from. can we believe anything else you say?

      ” … What’s up having a bad day Friend?”

      Eh! What on Earth has the kind of day I am having got to do with my opinions expressed on Wings? While opinions might change, “Where you come from”, depending upon the kind of day you are having most people, including myself, base their opinions upon the evidence as they perceive it and base it upon evidence obtained.

      ” … You might change your opinions depending The way the SNP are handling the Unionist parties by treating them with respect might suite you but i suspect not everyone would agree”

      Could you express whatever it is you are attempting to impart in the above paragraph in simple English for those of us who do not, “Come from”, where you are. I based my opinions upon the evidence that I explained in my comment and not on either the day I was having nor upon some form of nebulous gut feeling. Did that simple evidence fly over your head? I’ll restate it for you.

      All evidence indicates that the voters of Scotland are NOT being turned from support of either the Scottish Government nor the SNP by the lies and omissions of both the Yoons and the MSM. Evidence is that the SNP are still gaining new members and the votes for them are still going up. The losses in the last election were not due to numbers of voters falling for the number voting SNP increased, The losses were due to the crazy system of list candidates.

      Where is the evidence you presented that the lies and omissions of the unionists have had the opposite effect?

      Which brings us to the point that if the lies are having the opposite effect than what the Yoons intended why does it make any sense for the SNP to go on the attack – which was exactly the point I was making, However, that seems to mean something very different wherever it is, “You come from”.

    159. carjamtic says:

      Re:FM QT

      LDs

      Witnessing a grown man “suckling” can never be acceptable in any sane society,never mind in the Scottish Parliament,it was offensive,as it was crass,much like the appropriately named Quizno’s adverts featuring the sponmonsters.

      No wonder he put on his ‘angry’ voice on,debasing yourself in public cannot be easy for such a ‘proud’ leader,however it did bring a wee ‘enjoyable’ smile from the mooth…..boak.

      #buffalobillsucksitup

    160. Cadogan Enright says:

      Did anyone see this story reported on BBC or STV?

    161. Dan Huil says:

      @Cherry 7:49pm

      If britnats in Holyrood try to go behind the SG’s back all the SG has to do is say the britnat-China deal concocted is detrimental to Scotland and they won’t sign up to it. Further, the SG can say that because of britnat interference any future deals with China will now be dependent on Scotland’s independence.

      Or, alternatively, the SG can say that since non-Scottish- government britnats have set a precedent then there will be nothing to stop a pre-independent Scotland from making many many more business overtures with other nations regardless of what Westminster says.

      In fact the more I think about it the more I hope someone like that britnat chappy does exactly what you and I have implied.

    162. Ken500 says:

      Mundell picking his beard and eating it.

      The trouble for compulsive liars is it ends up no one believes a thing that they say. People are annoyed People do not like liars or fakes, trying to take them for fools or used.

      ie MSM and Unionist politicians.

    163. Jockanese Wind Talker says:

      Sky complaining about fake News.

      They’ve got a f*cking cheek @ Ken500 says at 4:49 pm.

      1. Romania: Authorities Say Sky News Faked Arms Smuggling Report

      https://www.occrp.org/en/daily/5550-romania-authorities-say-sky-news-faked-arms-smuggling-report

      and

      2. Actor says he impersonated Russian mercenary in Syria for Sky News report

      https://www.rt.com/news/356422-russia-skynews-syria-actor/

    164. Dr Jim says:

      @Robert Peffers

      Definitely agree with you on what I think you’re saying inasmuch as two sets of noise is just a bigger noise
      Yoons will lie loudly, it’s what they have to do to win their case, there’s absolutely no point in shouting the truth loudly to keep reacting to what Yoons want on the agenda

      Heads up and keep moving forward and leave the noisy Yoons shouting from behind in their efforts to catch the SNP, that’s why folks are still joining the party
      Save the demonstrations for a time of the SNPs choosing

      Never let the enemy pick the battle or what it’ll be fought on

      It’s allowed for us to get angry we’re not politicians who have to keep our tempers

    165. Lochside says:

      Good digging Andrew MClean, the scullduggery never ends. Re.the wee lying torn faced Davidson, her BBC ex-colleague McIntosh colludes to let her away with murder.

      But as said by many, the SNP are culpable in their inability or unwillingness to refute downright lies and mistruths. There is no excuse. Potential YES voters, undecided or soft ‘no’s can only be persuaded by facts…facts demonstrating in plain sight, the blatant distortions and lies of the Unionist media and gutter press. For instance,every day commuters are exposed to the BritProp lies in the ‘Metro’freely distributed to the unwary and uninformed.

      A senior member of my local branch admitted to me that the media group of the SNP based in London were ‘useless’. He said that time and again info that could be used against the BBC was either not used or ignored. I suggested that there should be a root and branch clear out if that was the case.

      Last night I had the misfortune to watch Quisling Time( QT). with the SNP given the rare opportunity to be present. Unfortunately they picked Tasmina Ahmed-Sheik, someone I have long felt to be a chancer. Central office must have decided she would fit the bill as a’feminist’, token Muslim, and politically correct. She kept trying to prove her pc credentials all the way through and ended up looking stupid with her historical comments about Trump and having to backtrack because he is now the ‘President’. She made a feeble attempt at the end to defend Scottish democracy over Brexit but was booed and heckled by the hostile English audience and an unsympathetic disdainful Dimblebore who couldn’t hide his disdain at being in Stirling next week.

      Why was Jeanne Freeman not on? A real fighter and a serious prospect for taking on the metropolitan wankers on this programme. Time and time again, the SNP, like the Scotland team, keep missing the open goals. Why? Despite some ‘sages’ on here insist they are doing the right thing. Well in my view they are demoralising many supporters like me and worse letting the general Scottish public be fed a diet of downright fucking lies day in and out. I complained before the REF about this and have been told that ‘but we went from 30% up to 45%’. Aye..because the footsoldiers, like me, chapped hundreds of thousands of doors, marched and demonstrated, and held meetings and broke through the glass ceiling of media suppression.

    166. Robert Peffers says:

      @Fred says: 11 November, 2016 at 7:40 pm:

      “I’ve aye maintained that the Government, or the SNP itself, need a clued-up press officer to respond to this shite on a daily basis.”

      Sigh!
      Whatever makes you think that they have not, Fred?

      Do you know the expression, “You can take a horse to the water but you cannot make it drink”?

      Well consider it this way, “You can send a press report to the Media but you cannot make them publish or broadcast it”.

      I can say with certainty that the FM and the elected SNP members at both Holyrood and Westminster always do vigorously correct all lies and wrong claims. What they have no powers to do is force the media to report the corrections or defence put up by the elected members.

      There cannot be a person who comments on Wings who has not witnessed that, Big Brian, for example. always seems to have witnessed a different FM’s Question Time than the one they have watched for themselves.

      Good grief how many of you have complained of that very fact on this forum? Is it not thus hypocritical to then attempt to blame the individual elected members and the SNP for their efforts not being reported without spin on the airwaves and in the press?

      The thing is that no matter what certain people are presently claiming as the FM and SNP’s fault costing votes the truth is the party and independence is still making progress and that can only mean that former NO voters are, (if slowly), finding the unionist propaganda to be untrue.

    167. Ken500 says:

      Don’t let the Tories get their hands or interference in any SC contracts with the Chinese or others, in any shape or form. That is the only reason many people join Unionist Parties to try and (illegally) get their hands on public money and their associates can line their pockets. Never let them near. They do not declare their self interest. The Tories could be at it.

      Happens all the time in Westminster. Poor value for money Hinkley Point, HS2, Heathrow expansion. Lining the pockets of the Tories and their associates. Poor value for money. No credible business case. Just more congestion/investment in London S/E and increases the North/south divide. Damaging the UK economy. More poor economic decisions.

      It is the Northern towns/cities (HS3) and the Scottish railway system that should be improved for lower travel times throughout the UK and cut the need for air travel.

    168. Chic McGregor says:

      OT
      Something I first realised the existence of decades ago after a GE where the Tories under Thatcher called for an investigation into their polling results v their much higher actual election result.

      It is the shame/guilt factor in operation.

      What do I mean by that?

      Well, most folk have a moral benchmark or are at least aware of what the benchmark is.

      They know what side of the line they are on.

      They know that allowing motivations such as self interest, greed, racial prejudice, xenophobia and religious prejudice to dictate their vote, they are on the wrong side of that line.

      So if a prospective voter knows that the option he/she is going to vote for has one or more of the above, they feel guilty.

      The effect on polling being that they are less likely to be willing to participate.

      The result then being an underestimate for that option.

      Now most folk here will already be aware of this fact but I mention it now since we have recently had classic illustrations of the effect.

      Indyref1, the no vote was probably around 4% higher in the the actual result than the polls indicated. No voter guilt effect.

      At the GE the Tory result was a lot higher than poll indicated. Tory guilt effect.

      At Brexit the leave result was a lot higher than indicated. Leave guilt effect.

      For Trump his result was a lot higher than indicated. Trump voter guilt effect.

      Just FFR.

    169. Rock says:

      Davidson is the most disgusting and dishonest politician in Scotland in my view.

      No wonder the BBC are so proud of her.

    170. mike d says:

      Over the last week been watching travel/lifestyle documentaries on small European countries. What stood out,all doing well and getting on. Why oh why Scotland did you shit yourself in sep 2014?

    171. Rock says:

      The National should call Davidson a hypocrite in its headline tomorrow.

    172. Robert J. Sutherland says:

      I have been pondering this latest Ruthie U-turn, and here’s my conclusion.

      The previous outburst was from the Ruth Davidson Party in freebooting SNPbaaad form, cheered-on by their BLiS and FibDem little helpers. But since then London HQ has decided the new party line will be that trade with, and investment from, China is essential to keep the UKOK show on the road. So Ruthie the Dancing Puppet has been told she must now become The Brexit Britain (Northern branch) Open For World Trade (esp. China) Party.

      Cue then a blast of SNPbaaad from the polar opposite direction, and never mind the inconsistency. The Party has spoken and the ever-helpful media will look the other way anyway.

      (But you have to wonder what the little helpers are making of it all. When do you think they will finally wake up and realise they are just being used…?)

    173. stewartb says:

      @ Ken500 8.45pm

      Absolutely right. London-centric investment in infrastructure – and that is what HS2 and Heathrow expansion are essentially – is not a ‘re-balancing of England’s, far less the UK’s economy. In my opinion, the NE of England for example is being screwed.

      Also, if the Secretary of State for Defence will not confirm if the MoD contract with BAE Systems for building warships on the Clyde will or will not have a get-out clause for the UK government if Scotland becomes independent, how can we be confident that any Chinese deal with a UK government involvement over future investment in Scotland is not conditional on Scotland staying part of the UK. It could just be adding to ‘project fear’.

      O/T The message for Scotland from tonight’s football, you need to take your chances when they are available. A message for IndyRef2!!

    174. Breeks says:

      I confess I don’t know a huge amount the Chinese Trade Deal, but I am confused. The UK, as a member of the EU cannot by law negotiate bilateral trade deals with non EU Members.

      So how exactly do we reckon Scotland can?

      This is talked up as a Trade Deal, but I think that might be misleading. This is Chinese investment which may or may not be coming to Scotland, and I suppose you can call legitimately call it a “deal”, but I don’t see it ticking enough of the right boxes to be a formal trade deal.

      Westminster is currently sticking two fingers up to EU legislation, but the Global community will respect international law even if Westminster does not.

    175. One_Scot says:

      The lying two faced Yoons don’t care what they say and when they say it. They will say whatever suits their political agenda at any given point in time.

      They can basically get away with murder. Who’s going to stop them, the Yoon media, I don’t think so.

      It will never change, even after Independence, but at least at that point it will not matter.

    176. Tinto Chiel says:

      @Cherry 7.49: I wouldn’t worry too much about Mr Lockhart. He’s a Larkhall boy who probably has a bowler hat in his wardrobe and has to practise walking about three times a year, just to make sure he’s mastered it.

      And despite what many people think, many folk in his town are now SNP: the citrus fruit people there were always a vocal but rather small minority who could intimidate the decent inhabitants quite easily.

      Times they are a-changin’, groovers.

    177. liz says:

      The BBC Alba documentary about the British Gov keeping an eye on the SNP & ending with the McCrone Report is very interesting.

      At the end they discuss the oil cash being used for M25 & the Chunnel & show the cabinet papers discussing this.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM0JsBjcx2E&feature=share

    178. stewartb says:

      @Breeks 9:51 pm

      The Chinese MoU as I understand it was to provide a basic framework for discussion about a potential ‘foreign direct investment’ (FDI). Scotland, often due to the competence of Scottish Development International (SDI) coupled to the inherent attractiveness of Scotland in Europe as a location for investment, has been very successful in attracting FDI over many years from various international sources. It was not about a ‘trade deal’.

    179. Scott says:

      I suppose Murdo Fraser will be dancing with joy seeing Scotland got beat by his union friends

    180. sassenach says:

      Good to see American comedian Rich Hall giving Andra Neil a good going-over tonight on HIGNFY, for his coverage of Trump election.

      Couldn’t happen to a nicer man!

    181. sassenach says:

      Scott @10-25pm

      At least there didn’t seem to be any ‘Butcher’s Aprons’ in the crowd, we were beaten before a ball was kicked with those PINK shirts!!

    182. ronnie anderson says:

      @ Tinto Cheil 9.47 Davy Lockart yer spot on Tinto he also hiz ah Apron RBP .

    183. Sinky says:

      Lochhside at 8.32 pm

      “Last night I had the misfortune to watch Quisling Time( QT). with the SNP given the rare opportunity to be present. Unfortunately they picked Tasmina Ahmed-Sheik, someone I have long felt to be a chancer. Central office must have decided she would fit the bill as a’feminist’, token Muslim, and politically correct. She kept trying to prove her pc credentials all the way through and ended up looking stupid with her historical comments about Trump and having to backtrack because he is now the ‘President’. She made a feeble attempt at the end to defend Scottish democracy over Brexit but was booed and heckled by the hostile English audience and an unsympathetic disdainful Dimblebore who couldn’t hide his disdain at being in Stirling next week.”

      Didn’t watch QT as SNP have been kept off QT when Brexit is discussed but token representation when dominated by American politics and my friend says she was ignored for first 20 minutes of the programme.

      SNP Central Office has no say in these matters as I think BBC choses who they want on.

      In my opinion Mike Russell is best performer on these type of programmes after Alex Salmond.

    184. stewartb says:

      O/T

      Good to hear the evidence of UK inclusiveness today: (i) the crowd of English supporters tonight at Wembley singing our UK national anthem; and (ii) on BBC UK-wide news coverage, our royal prince at the prime UK event for remembrance today choosing to quote on this national and Commonwealth occasion from a poem that only refers to ‘England” . I hate myself for being so ‘petty’ but time and time again over 60 plus years it does get to me!

    185. defo says:

      Re Yoonist propaganda/lies, and the SNP not calling it out vociferously enough for some.
      “If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?”
      i’d vouch that 75% of the electorate know nothing about the MOU. There’s plenty still happy taking the blue pill.

      Voter satisfaction with gov performance doesn’t directly correlate to intention to vote Yes. It helps convince on competence and viability for some, but…
      Plenty yoons happy in their best of both worlds.
      The blinkers need knocking off.

    186. heedtracker says:

      Financial Times
      Yesterday at 23:00 ·

      Trump’s plans for cutting personal and business taxes would, according to analysis from the Tax Policy Center, lead to a rise in the federal debt by $7.2tn over the first decade.”

      Hard core conservatives in Holyrood are full of it and look at what Pres Trump’s warming up, even bigger debt. Greatest fraud on all of us, Conservatives know how to run successful economies. Crash Gordo’s prudence prudence was also a spectacular shyste.

    187. Tinto Chiel says:

      ronnie anderson; aye, Ronnie, he’s in the “Can he walk and chew gum at the same time?” brigade.

      The answer’s Naw, btw.

      😛

    188. heedtracker says:

      sassenach says:
      11 November, 2016 at 10:47 pm
      Good to see American comedian Rich Hall giving Andra Neil a good going-over tonight on HIGNFY, for his coverage of Trump election.

      Check out Pres Trump’s meeting with Obama. Trump’s another English language strangler just like Bush was. It’s not funny, more frightening. Another inarticulate bullshitter’s the leader of the western world, Bush II.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lIiJc7uKiXs

    189. Effijy says:

      Did anyone else notice that the so called Scottish Pundits show supporting the Scottish Football match this evening,
      were all wearing English Poppies?

      STV, like all other UK Media outlets, support England in any way that they can.

      With an English Commentator, and a Former England player who had played football in Scotland for a few years.

      We must be grateful for Kenny Miller and that wee Scots/Asian guy getting a seat to make us feel loved.

      I don’t know if this is the first Scotland Football Match that I’ve seen on Terrestrial TV in years or just the next in line to make every English match available in Scotland.

      PS I’m Proud of the Scottish players efforts!

      Not easy to take on a Country with 13 times the population, with Multi-£Billion TV Football contracts,
      better sports facilities, better weather, and a higher standard of living.

    190. Robert Peffers says:

      There is a simple fact that should not be overlooked and it is that the financial sector makes its profits by the time honoured mantra of buying cheap and selling dear. Thus their profits grind to a halt when the market is static.

      To make profits it is thus in their interest to cause crisis, real or imagined, in order to get a fall or a rise in share values. That’s when fortunes are made and lost.

      So there will be faux panic and a sudden fall in the shares market at the slightest excuse. It wouldn’t matter a damn to these people who the hell won the USA election. Shares would dive and then the dealers attempt to judge, (it is actually all done by computer algorithms these days), when the shares hit bottom and then they can buy cheap.

      The game is to get in before the price goes back up again as it will when buying begins.

      Any excuse is a good excuse to these people. War, terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, pandemics, asylum seekers flooding into a country, natural disasters, recessions, trade disputes, nuclear disasters, cats stuck up trees, trees stuck up cats.

      You name it and they will find it a good excuse for a fall in share values – instantly followed by the rise again as the early traders buy cheap.

      It beats betting on the dugs, horses and sports results but they even fiddle the sports results. It is all just a game to these people but it often is life, death and disaster to innocent people throughout the World. Not to mention devastating for those poor cats with the trees stuck up them.

    191. Chic McGregor says:

      Liz
      As well as a video link there is also a transcript available in Wings archives.

      http://worldofstuart.excellentcontent.com/repository/DIOMHAIR.pdf

    192. Andrew Mclean says:

      Chic,
      Good history of state involvement in the independence movement, when is the next instalment for state actors that have infiltrated the independence movement and the SNP today. As of early 90’s they were still some in positions of influence right?
      So why no tonight?

    193. louis.b.argyll says:

      Mr Peffers 11.35
      Any excuse is a good excuse to these people. War, terrorist attacks, disease outbreaks, pandemics, asylum seekers flooding into a country, natural disasters, recessions, trade disputes, nuclear disasters, cats stuck up trees, trees stuck up cats.

      I couldn’t agree more. It’s sickening.

    194. liz says:

      @Chic McGregor – thanks for that.

      Have saved it

    195. Ian Brotherhood says:

      @Robert Peffers –

      Not sure if I’ve said it before, but I’ll say it now in case I forget.

      You’re a proper hero for doing what you do. It must become so fucking wearing, having to explain the same basic stuff over and over and over again, but you do it with style.

      The strange thing is – if I had to summarise what it is you’ve been saying, right here, over the past few years, I’d really struggle. I don’t have that knowledge of history at the proverbial fingertips. But what I do have is utter confidence that you, and some others, DO have all the constitutional and historical stuff down to a ‘t’, and we can refer to you as and when required.

      All I ‘know’ from your posts is this – Scotland is a nation. The people who live here have the right – nay obligation/duty – to defend it.

      More power to ye mister – lang may yer lum reek.

      🙂 XXX

    196. Grouse Beater says:

      Trump – a time foretold. Now what? http://wp.me/p4fd9j-b61

    197. Chic McGregor says:

      Aye Ian,
      I agree.
      Robert or ‘Auld Bob’ as he called himself decades back on soc.culture.scottish, has aye been a doughty fechter fur the cause

    198. Thepnr says:

      Don’t know about the rest of you but I KNOW we’re winning.

    199. Dr Jim says:

      Football team from a country that outnumbers Scotland 10to1
      with some of the highest paid players in the world from the richest league in the world wins a game of Football

      But here’s what makes it funny, the brainless twats think somehow that makes their politics better than anybody else’s
      thus proving they are indeed superior whilst at the same time displaying the arrogant stupidity as to why they’re the only ones in the world who think that

      Ye cannae beat their logic eh

    200. Thepnr says:

      @Dr Jim

      YES we are a smaller country, tell you what though England will never forget being beaten by Scotland 3-2 at Wembley in 1967 the year after England won the Wold Cup.

      Scotland beat them on their own ground and claimed the World Championship!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BSfA7xxBM3w

    201. Ken500 says:

      One trader who created a glip for profit by manipulating the markets. In his mother’s bedroom in London. is now facing 30 years in jail in the States. In the States, if they get caught they are put in jail. The States have strict marketing rules with high punishment penalties. Microsoft was taken to court and fined. Not a high enough penalty. US multinational can pay no tax worldwide,

      In the UK there were no Laws to prosecute. These Laws have been introduced, but enforced? Microsoft was taken to court and fined for bad marketing practices. US multinationals can pay no tax. Evade worldwide. The EU is now clamping down on that. Acting again these corporations. Apple, Google, Starbucks etc. Making them pay their share of tax, under EU Laws. It is unfair competition for EU firms and businesses, That is why the Tories/UKIP want out of the EU. So they can tax evade. They are criminals.

      Farague has taken £Millions out of the EU. He has been criminally funding a Political Party with public money for years. A criminal offence in the UK. Not declaring accounts, A criminal Offence. Arron Banks his associate is his bagman. The money has been laundered through (Banks) offshore accounts? It should be all investigated. There is a possibility? It was revealed in the Panama wiki leaks. The authorities could be investigating. Farague’s associate has been arrested in the States for embezzlement and money laundering In the US. With Brexit the EU funding will dry up. UKIP is in £3/4Billion debt. Bankrupt? Farague is now trying to tote in the US.

      The EU definately supports Scotland.

    202. yesindyref2 says:

      Some info on the bribes and corruption with CRG

      http://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/1398918/president-china-railway-group-commits-suicide-reports

      Zhang was charged in September in 2013 for taking in 47 million yuan in bribes and Ding went on trial late that month for bribery linked to railway projects worth more than 185 billion yuan.

      China’s former railway minister, Liu Zhijun was given a suspended death sentence in July 2013 for abuse of power and taking bribes as the Communist Party scrambled to rein in rampant corruption within the railway industry during the debt-fueled high-speed rail construction boom in the last decade.

      That’s Zhang Shuguang by the way, NOT Peter Zhang.

      CR3 are supposed to be clean, but the Scottish Media and opposition aren’t interested in that, or the difference between it and CRG.

      I did check it out last March when this stuff hit the headlines, and there’s something about the Norges report I can’t remember – perhaps its origins were before the convictions or something.

      @Robert McLean
      I’ve bookmarked the Global Times, but if you see anything please post it, and I’ll check it out. It’s worth careful polite comments like ours, though they seem to be better informed than the Scottish media is anyway – even to the extent of understanding the dynamics of the SNP hatred obsessed opposition to the SNP.

      @Breeks
      This isn’t a trade agreement between governments, it’s a government looking for deals with a business which is totally acceptable.

    203. yesindyref2 says:

      Sh*t. As far as I know there’s nothing currently with CRG either, I think they cleaned house back in 2013/14. This all for memory I did a lot of research back in March, but unfortunately it’s not easy to find on the Herald forums.

      l8rz ooft that was painful, family staying, off to bed, but you can get a load of stuff from this thread about KLP whoever theya re I forget now:

      http://archive.is/Dyda1

      look for “The Norwegian Oil Fund had invested in CRG but sold it’s shares due to concerns” and follow the replies, including “The Council on Ethics’ recommendation relies on press sources, since the primary documents themselves have not been made public.” I think I lost interest after that sometimes these things just go round and round and as far as I’m concerned infinite loops ain’t my thing.

    204. Macart says:

      Picked the last one up as per normal, but simply googled hate crime and hey presto. Report and articles on this from both sides of the Atlantic on the news outlets.

      http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-supporters-attack-muslims-hijab-hispanics-lgbt-hate-crime-wave-us-election-a7410166.html

      Independent, Guardian, CNN, FOX etc…

      Not a great start has to be said.

    205. Ken500 says:

      Obama and Clinton were responsible for millions of Muslims killed and maimed in their endless 10 year long campaigns in the Middle East. Where they lied and lied along with their continued campaign which Obama promised to stop. Millions of People have been killed and have died in the US and elsewhere resulting in massive debt and hardship in US/UK France and Europe. Migration in Europe has been cause and millions of people are still suffering hardship in Europe and elsewhere displaced from their homes etc because of Obama and Clinton.

      Obama/Clinton (along with others) two of the biggest crooks in world history, who should be in jail. It had to stop.The Anerican people and other had to put a stop to it. Along with the misreporting of the MSM and their sycophants Lie after lie after lie. Some of the demonstrators have been bussed in.

    206. Ken500 says:

      Obama and the Clintons are mass murderers along with their greedy associates who have killed and maimed millions of people the world over. They have emblezzled and misappropriated $Trillions of public money. They have bankrupted and starved million of innocent people. Made millions of people sick and unwell. Along with their associates and their wanton disrespect for everyone, They and their associates, of propaganda and lies, the sycophantic lying Press should be put in jail.

      They are utter contempful of other people!s rights to human dignity. Craven hypocritical craven greedy liars. Hated and despised in the US and all around the world. Responsible for hate crimes like no others. Obama and Clintin were taking money from Muslims to kill other Muslims. They have killed and mained more Muslims in the world than any others. In their total illegal bloodlust. Total hypocritical low lives.

      The majority of Americans, who are decent people, are sick to death of it and so are everyone else. Obama/Clinton the worse Presidents in history. They will go down in history as criminal warmongers with total comtempt for other nations. What a terrible legacy and example. They are criminally culpable.

      Now they are gone hopefully for ever, there could be a new world order. Hopefully common civility and mutual respect for human life. Starting with respecting for the American people’s democratic choice. Good riddance to Obama and Clinton. Two of the worse people in the world. A warmongering, greedy horror shows. Along with the UK Westminster/Unionist Gov of craven greedy, hypocritical, murdering liars. Hated and viewed with contempt the world over. They should just stop telling lies and regurgitated nonsense. The American people made their right choice.

      Donald Trump did not start a 3WW but maybe he can stop one. If Donald Trump can stop America from going bankrupt he will be doing the world a favour, Donald Trump who has a brash way, told the truth and the electorate responded. There are reports the demonstrators are being bussed in paid for by George Soros. Another dodgy, warmongering criminal with ultra motives.

    207. Ken500 says:

      Simply google the US/UK and France illegal invasions in the Middle East and crimes against humanity.

      Blair/Bush/CameronOsbourne/Clegg/May/Hammond/Fallon/Johston/Farague etc al should be in jail. Along with their associates for crimes against humanity, They are sanctimonious criminal greedy liars. Hated the world over, They have brought Britain into disrepute.

    208. Dorothy Devine says:

      Macart , according to filmed footage on RT the Trump supporters are also getting beaten up – unlikely to be reported in the Guardian who seem to have gone into some feverish death spiral with its Trump reporting.

    209. Smallaxe says:

      Nana:

      Good Morning Nana,raining here this morning.Thank you for the links.Kettle’s on.

      Peace Always

    210. louis.b.argyll says:

      ‘I used to have a job.
      And I was doing fairly well.

      Depression came along
      and everybody start to yell.

      WHERE’S THOSE GOLDEN GOOD OLE DAYS
      AND ALL THE CRAP WE USED TO SELL?

      Now I’m in hotplate heaven
      At the Green Hotel.

      ‘Nature didn’t put me here,
      And neither did my fate..

      It must have been some evil-
      Old Republican candidate,

      He’s over there in Washington
      But I wish he was in Hell,

      Cos all I get to dream of is
      The Green Hotel.

      F.Z. Writing about the hypocrisy of politics living in poverty.

      Ps I DEFY ANYONE TO FIND ‘A MORE SATIRICAL ALBUM ‘ THAN Zappa’s.l

      ‘Broadway the Hard Way’

      He attacks the religious right & religious left, TV evangelists, the insular village, you name them, he got sued and counter-claimed, it was, and remains inspired poetry.

    211. louis.b.argyll says:

      ‘I used to have a job.
      And I was doing fairly well.

      Depression came along
      and everybody start to yell.

      WHERE’S THOSE GOLDEN GOOD OLE DAYS
      AND ALL THE CRAP WE USED TO SELL?

      Now I’m in hotplate heaven
      At the Green Hotel.

      ‘Nature didn’t put me here,
      And neither did my fate..

      It must have been some evil-
      Old Republican candidate,

      He’s over there in Washington
      But I wish he was in Hell,

      Cos all I get to dream of is
      The Green Hotel.

      F.Z. Writing about the hypocrisy of politics living in poverty.

      Ps I DEFY ANYONE TO FIND ‘A MORE SATIRICAL ALBUM ‘ THAN Zappa’s…

      ‘Broadway the Hard Way’

      He attacks the religious right & religious left, TV evangelists, the insular village, you name them, he got sued and counter-claimed, it was, and remains inspired poetry.

    212. Yerkitbreeks says:

      May I suggest your estimable database be utilised with stuff such as this on billboards at a future Referendum

    213. Tom B says:

      Norway is the largest European state contributor to the crooked Clinton Foundation, second overall only to Saudi Arabia.



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