Scottish independence referendum, plus jokes.

Wings Over Scotland


Fair warning

Posted on May 29, 2013 by

The Herald today reports officially (or at least semi-officially, quoting “a senior Treasury source”) what we’ve been telling you for months:

“Scotland’s annual block grant is set to be cut by hundreds of millions of pounds in a knock-on effect from George Osborne’s attempt to find £11.5 billion of extra savings across Whitehall budgets.”

The cuts will be implemented in 2015, if Scotland votes No to independence. Labour has repeatedly refused to commit itself to higher spending in the event it wins the 2015 election. The net effect on the Scottish budget of both up-front and hidden cuts like those described in the links above will be likely to run into billions of pounds.

When Johann Lamont says that universal services for Scots are no longer affordable, she isn’t basing her calculations on Scotland’s own finances, because Scotland can afford them and will be able to afford them for decades to come. She’s basing them on the reduced pocket money that Scotland will receive from Westminster regardless of who wins the next election, because that’s the true meaning of “One Nation Labour”.

If you like cuts, vote No for more. Lots more.

110 to “Fair warning”

  1. BrianMc says:

    One of your best.

  2. Ericmac says:

    Sorry for the pessimism, but I am starting my emigration plans already… no point to stay in a country of ‘political zombies’  
    The majority of the people in Scotland are locked-in, mesmerised, brainwashed, and controlled by the mainstream media.  
    It reminds me of a movie where humans were like cattle, and used as food for some underground beings.  It was an old movie, and I just barely remember a river bank scene, where someone is drowning and the other humans dont bother.  They are walking about in a trance.  
    Many of our youngsters have already been indoctrinated, ironically, the more intelligent ones who take an interest in news and politics.  
     
    I dont think a critical mass of the population are going to wake up in time to save themselves.
    It would have to be a major event to open their eyes.  Maybe a trident problem, or spiralling interest rates and hyper inflation.
    One can only hope. 

  3. turnip_ghost says:

    Yesterday when passing through Waverley station I saw on the big screen Sky News with the headline “No Trident alternative” and it turns out the W/M are looking to go for a like for like replacement.

    That might help people realise it’s an all or nothing situation we are in!

  4. Tattie-boggle says:

    Will the EBC cover this ? No Way….
    @ ericmac
    The Time Machine (The Eloi being eaten by the Morlock )

  5. cheryl says:

    I hope by the time the referendum comes around more people are aware of which powers lie where, where our funding comes from, and exactly how well the Scottish Government have done overall in protecting us from some of the stuff that’s already happening and biting elsewhere. And understand that that protection can only last so long in the face of the first two.
     
    I did come across a guy recently was under the impression that the Scots Govt had the power the set up our own welfare system.

  6. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Ericmac/Tattie-boggle-
     
    Aye, the Morlocks. Scary so and so’s…
     
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_S4eGrczdQ

  7. Desimond says:

    Sadly I dont think the complete impact of Trident gets to the man in the street. They hear “We just dont want Nuclear weapons” rather than “We dont want or NEED these things, we need better healthcare, social welfare and progression for all…Trident money would help these aims rather than just help Arms dealers with their Unionist corporate politican lackeys!”
     

  8. @Ericmac
    The film you remember was the 1960 version of HG Wells’ ‘The Time Machine’ starring Rod Taylor.
    However, I find the comparison with the population of Scotlandshire with Eloi to be a little strange, as the real Eloi are surely Westminster politicians.

  9. Luigi says:

    Ericmac,
    Cheer up, mate. People are not as daft as the politicians would like to believe. They can see what is coming down the tracks at high speed. Some of them won’t jump clear until the last minute, but jump they will, just as they enter the polling booth next year.

  10. Tris says:

    I think that if government ministers agree to reduced spending in their departments (which inevitably involves losing staff and people having to do more for their money)  that the minister should take a drop in salary in accord with the amount that he has agreed for his department.
     
    Moore must fight for Scotland and if he fails to prevail he should lose some of the ministerial salary and the pension that goes with it. (As should Muddle). They will never fight for anything that doesn’t impact on them personally. It is after all, all they care about.
     
    As for the “no trident alternative” mentioned by Turnip_ghost, I imagine that that is the outcome of Cameron’s recent visit to the USA. I remember the last time there was to be a drop in defence spending Mr Fox spilt the beans to his friends in America, the prime minister received a call from mrs Clinton and the cuts were at least reduced if not abandoned.
     
    They simply won’t tolerate the UK not pulling its weight.

  11. Adrian B says:

    They simply won’t tolerate the UK not pulling its weight.
     
    That is the Special Relationship that the UK has with America. American base for American weapons in UK. Paid for by the UK. The American politicians are not as daft as the ones in the UK.
     
     

  12. balgayboy says:

    Ericmac says:@ 1.01pm
    Sorry my friend but I think you are planning your evacuation prematurely. Please do not underestimate the people of Scotland’s intelligence and instead of listening or reading to much into the shite that is perperated by the constant tsumani of B.S. that our Scottish MSM and EBC Scotland spew. Have faith and continue to encourage your family and friends the right path. Vote Yes 2014

  13. Davy says:

    Frankly this type of information just makes me even more determined to help free Scotland from under the thumb of Westminster and its unionist grabbers.
     
    We cant hold back in this ‘battle’ we have the right to improve the future of our country and its children, and we must take it as Westminster will not hand it to us. No-one must give up. 
     
    Vote NO – and get ripped off.
     
    Vote YES – get a country.
     
    Alba Gu Brath.

  14. mato21 says:

    Tris
    Am I wrong in thinking that the Scottish government has to pay for the privilege of having Mickey the mouse that would not roar looking after our interests?

  15. HandandShrimp says:

    So what is the official Better Together spin. Less money is actually better. An independent Scotland would be hampered and dragged down with too much money?

  16. Adrian B says:

    An independent Scotland would be hampered and dragged down with too much money?
     
    Just think about all that uncertainty, volatility, danger and how poor we would be!    

  17. balgayboy says:

    Better Together are offering the people of Scotland nothing. It is up to the individual people of Scotland to decide what is best for them and their children and grandchildren. A very personal and vastly important choice that will determine the future of our country. Hopefully their decision will be the start of a great new future for Scotland.

  18. SCED300 says:

    The Conservative Government is being true to form. Labour is hoping people will vote for them nationwide because of this, but as they themselves have made no promises to reverse or improve they have a weak hand.
    In Scotland: If all the dissembling, coverups and what is frankly lies coming from Labour resulted in a No vote in 2014, it would do the Conservatives no harm at all to expose them all for the 2015 General Election. Right now they don’t have a much of a presence in Scotland so they have little to lose but they could wipe some of the Labour seats.
    The Conservatives will resurrect their plan to change the voting boundaries which could give them an extra 20 seats around the UK.
    The Conservative UK National Press is much bigger than the Labour Press and several of the Scottish papers are pro-Conservative. And of course there is Sky news which a lot of people use in Scotland.

  19. Bill C says:

    @Ericmac – I have been around the political block a few. times over the years and like thousands of other nationalists have had my fair share of disappointments. However, 2007 and especially 2011 more than made up for the setbacks. That said I am not convinced (yet) that we will achieve a YES vote, although I do believe that there have been a few straws in the wind just recently, the rise of UKIP and the Healey/McCrone Report, being just two of them which make me more optimistic.  I also think that the scare stories from the NO Scotland campaign are losing there effectiveness, not only that, I think they might actually be having a positive effect on the YES vote. Yesterdays Chris Hoy story being a prime example. I think that there are only so many times you can tell the Scots that they can’t do something before you get a reaction. So in my humble opinion, I would advise you to make sure you can get your money back on your tickets. As a great man once said, “I have a dream”!

  20. HandandShrimp says:

    Bill C
     
    I didn’t understand Hoy’s comments at all. Murray won gold. He trained in the States and Spain. Athletes go all over to get access to the best facilities. Also, I thought one of the selling points of the Commonwealth Games was to improve our facilities

  21. Desimond says:

    At which point will figures from Westminster start being supplied with an Asterisk * denoting “Subject to Scotland remaining Part of the Union”.
    Surely a YES vote reduces any Promises, Plans or Bills in the pipeline to dust; yet there seems to be much more concern over the affect of a UK EU Referendum than there is regards the Scottish Referendum. Denial?
     

  22. MajorBloodnok says:

    @Desimond
     
    Ignorance and Arrogance in equal measure – although the former often begets the latter!

  23. HandandShrimp says:

    Torrance misses the point completely (perhaps deliberately?). 
     
    It isn’t about 40 years ago or “It’s Scotland’s Oil” It is about today and the incessant scare stories from Better Together. The message is simple, these people lie through their teeth. They have done it in the past and they will do it now. Evidence? McCrone, Healey and Bernard Ingham is worth listening to on the matter too.

    I found Curran’s denial that she knew anything about any of this frankly shocking. I am similar ages with her and not a politician and I know. Bare faced lies as well as the through the teeth stuff. That or she is the most ill informed politician on the planet.

  24. mato21 says:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNRmugH6oBE
     
    The above link is for those who have not heard Bernard Inghams views on greedy Scots re the oil

  25. SCED300 says:

    Reading Torrance’s article shows rather his desperation. The Together camp would like each piece of information to be seen in complete isolation, as with Healey’s revelation, and so diminish its importance.

  26. Red Squirrel says:

    Actually I’m feeling very optimistic – I’m so behind with all this so it’s probably old news to everyone else but I came across BBC Scotland’s history poll (closed in March 2011 so pretty old) but asked “Scotland’s destiny lies in an independent nation” 91% agreed from over 6000 replies.
    Maybe there’s hope for us yet.

  27. Luigi says:

    read David Torrance
    I’d rather not.

  28. ianbrotherhood says:

     
    @Bill C (1.49)-
     
    Kin right.
     
    McCrone…Healey…Curran…KABOOOOM!
     
    There must be more skidmarks in the BT camp than at Brands Hatch.

  29. sneddon says:

    @ericmac
     
    Cheer up mucker!  I moved back to Scotland with my business because the times are changing.  Maybe you have to have left to see the difference in Scotland in the last 10 years and to a certain extend the changes in the rUK as well.  Whether we get a YES vote this time or not  I’m stayin until we do.  Can you imagine the state of rUK by 2015 let alone Scotland when the cuts are really biting?

  30. albalux says:

    Luigi says:
    29 May, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    read David Torrance
    I’d rather not.
    No, do read it, and better still leave a comment rebutting his arguments. One good thing about the ThinkScotland site is that they do publish dissenting opinions.

  31. Red Squirrel says:

    Re Think Scotland Article (sorry but would the trades description act apply – no evidence of thinking in any intellectual sense).  Apart from making me queasy, I did enjoy their poster:
     
    “Be afraid – Gordon Brown’s defending the union”
     
    Yes unionists you should be very afraid – I’m soooo glad he’s on your side. In fact, the better together lineup just goes to show that political satire is very much alive and well – keep it coming.

  32. Ericmac says:

    Crivens, that was a real tonic. :)   Thanks all who, picked me up, patted me down and turned me around.
    And now I know which movie it was as well! Thanks again.
       
     
     

  33. scottish_skier says:

    Latest UKVI from Comres
    Labour 34%
    Con 30%
    UKIP 17%
    Lib 10%
    That’s ICM, MORI, Survation, Opinium and Comres all now having Labour down to 34/35% and falling. Ed is loosing to UKIP big style.

  34. Macart says:

    Short, punchy, brutal.
     
    Vote NO, get savaged.
     
    Twas ever thus.

  35. HandandShrimp says:

    Scottish Skier
     
    34% two years out from an election with an unpopular Government. The night oil will be burned in Labour HQ. Which way will they jump. Austerity anti-immigration or will they try to argue a centre left social democratic solution? I’m not taking any bets.
     
    Mind you the Tories must be wondering if they missed a trick not going for David Davies. The UKIP lot would veer to him in a shot. I guess they would have to make a guess at how many to the left in the party would swing to Labour.
     
    One thing is certain. Better Together can offer no certainties. Vote No for a bumpy ride seems to me all they can offer.

  36. Bill C says:

    @Macart – “Vote NO, get savaged.”  It may be “Short, punchy, brutal.”, but by God it’s true! That is the stark truth facing us all and I think the penny (aye our penny, the Scottish penny) is beginning to drop.

  37. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    To those who have decided to leave the country after a “No” vote, mind you don’t let the door hit you on the way out. We are here fighting to make our country a better place, and not all of us have the wherewithall to be able to emigrate. It is nice to see that you have decided to continue to put your efforts into the cause. We have routinely had threats from people like Michelle Mone, who claims she would leave an independent Scotland, and also Stephen Hendry who claimed he would leave if we got devolution.

  38. Macart says:

    @Bill C

    Priorities Bill. They’re the ones who said ‘vote with your head not your heart’. Well if we’re down to pounds and pence deciding independence, then Georgie boy has just given us a primo reason to get the hell outta Dodge.

  39. HandandShrimp says:

    Peter
     
    I will be staying but I have serious worries about the future if we vote No. The UK situation is not good..I mean really, really not good.

  40. Shinty says:

    If it’s a no vote – I’ll be the oldest beach bum on the Mediterranean (wee smiley thing)

    By the way – on this ‘ Vote Yes – Get a country’ can we change it to something with a bit more oomf.

  41. HandandShrimp says:

    Shinty
     
    Vote Yes – Believe in Better
     
    Bit meaningless but very now :)

  42. Peter Mirtitsch says:

    Whether we do or don’t get a “Yes” vote next year is immaterial; I want what is best for my country, and would like to see everyone work to that end REGARDLESS of the outcome. I don’t believe that will happen with a continued UK, but am prepared to work within it to that end. I believe one way or another that it will come. I am still surprised that we got devolution when we did, and am pleased the way it has worked out.

    We should all bear this in mind next year when Tories of all colours basically admit that we are in for a kicking from Westminster. I have no doubt that the Slabs will sit, merrily blaming the SNP administration for everything while losing their heads up their Tory idols’ backsides. They have to do that because they have lost the way and forgot why they were so popular among the great unwashed. A policy or two from time to time would be great, but as long as they support the Tories in maintaining the status quo, they don’t need to come up with any ideas. This does the people a great disservice.

  43. Cyborg-nat says:

    @ Macart.
    This may be more brutal and pointed but is contemporary,
    “Vote No, get shafted”.
    We call a spade a “shuffle” in The Garioch as in Strathbogie Holebender..

  44. Boorach says:

    Pride and Penury
     
    Vote YES for Pride
     
    Vote NO for Penury

  45. Jim Mitchell says:

    Yes it will be interesting to see how the unionists play this one, do you think we can expect some comment from United With Labour, btw what ever happened to them?
    Question: could anyone who posts from Stirling or the Stirling area let us know how Better Together’s launch went there, I think it was planned for last Saturday, but if that’s right they have went very coy about, no mention in today’s Stirling observer and there now seems to be no mention of it at all on the BT site.
    Then again it could just be me!
    So anyone any news?

  46. lumilumi says:

    Thanks, mato21 for that clip @2.33 pm.
     
    When the oldish English gentleman came on screen, I first thought it was some comedy act, exaggerated for effect. Alas, it was not :O

  47. lumilumi says:

    @Handandshirmp, 4.12
     
    The problem with the word ‘better’ is that it has been hijacked by the NO campaign, i.e. ‘Better Together’. Which is appropriately Orwellian, an instance of  doublespeak, the rhethoric the Westiminster politicos and spin doctors excel in.

  48. Famous15 says:

    Pride and prejudice.
     
    Vote yes for pride.
     
    Vote no for prejudice!
     

  49. sneddon says:

    At this rate the NO campaign slogan will be ‘Better than Afganistan’ :)

  50. mutterings says:

    Sorry if this has been mentioned before.Due to being a new puppy owner I am not managing to keep up with the news!
    More cuts: A cap on the number of times patients can visit their GP in a year is being considered by the Conservative Party.

  51. mato21 says:

    Article in the guardian about Healey and his memories of the oil
     
     http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/scottish-independence-blog/2013/may/29/scottish-independence-oil-healey
     
     

  52. Tony Little (aka Aplinal) says:

    I now refer to the anti campaign with “NO Better Together”
     
    Not original, or punchy, but … “whit can ye do, eh?”

  53. Albert Herring says:

    Vote Naw – get hee-haw!
    Be fly – Vote Aye!

  54. Roboscot says:

    If it’s only ‘hundreds of millions’ we’ll be doing okay. If it’s the 10% Osborne is getting fron UK departments it’ll be billions – £3 billion at least.

  55. Jiggsbro says:

    The problem with the word ‘better’ is that it has been hijacked by the NO campaign, i.e. ‘Better Together’.
     
    I’m hoping that some careless voters will have that in mind when they cast their ballot and will vote ‘Yes’ because they think ‘Yes, we are better together’.
     
    I can dream.

  56. CamronB says:

    Somebody please let me know what happens on the Guardian today. I’m afraid I couldn’t get past the volatility fear bomb in the sub-title. Honestly, I just felt an immediate depression and lost all the will to continue.
     
    I’ve posted before, that long-term exposure to propaganda can have a detrimental effect on the observer’s psychological health. I think I have just had that personally re-affirmed today.

  57. molly says:

    CamronB don’t be downhearted,there are small nuggets of positivity/ ? positveness.
    I listened to Kirsty Wark this morning (standing in for Kay with an e ).The discussion was about the NHS.We had the usual 4 hours breach debate and contributing was a Consultant ,an RCN rep, a young  sounding female doctor and of course ‘a health’ correspondent.
    I started off washing the dishes resigned to ‘another NHS bashing session’ only to end up whooping at the radio. 
    Whoever the young female doctor was -she nailed them !!
    The reporters who have the answers to everything but don’t work in the NHS
    The void in the system for patients who really should not be seeking help at an A and E 
    and my favourite -the last Lab/lib contract for GPs ( they must have seen them coming ) .
    This young woman may not have done her career any favours but my God she made me proud. Someone going quietly about their business but totally on the ball and not afraid to say it. If as many people in Scotland are quietly going about their business and half as aware as this woman ,it’ll be a YES.
    Don’t know if she is for /against ,yellow blue or purple for that matter but don’t underestimate ,people are listening.

  58. Indion says:

     
    Great blogpost as the Con neoliberals take advantage of the Lab neoliberal mire they both brought about to privatise the last of what’s left in sight.
     
    It’s what bankocracy does, starting with the political system, to turn Adam Smith’s hidden hand of providence over to be trousered by politico-bankster wankers.
     
    My barometer reads:
    ” Fair Warning of Fcuked Up Foul Weather Again ”

    So:
    Vote YES for Best than No Better Together (has been and never could be)

  59. scottish_skier says:

    Just worked out why that MORI poll was such a big outlier.

    Telephone landline sampling problems aside (and associated general bias towards No as a result of this), MORI didn’t notice that according to their data, 6% of the Scots population had changed their national identity in the space of a few months.

    Those feeling predominantly Scottish dropped by 6%. Those feeling more British than Scottish or totally British went up 4%. That means that at least 4% went from being Scottish first to British first. Wow.

    Aye, folk change their national identity all the time. I wake up some mornings feeling more French than Scottish. Couple of weeks later and I’m in German mode.

    <facepalm>
     
     

  60. AmadeusMinkowski says:

    HandandShrimp says:
     
    29 May, 2013 at 1:57 pm
    I didn’t understand Hoy’s comments at all.
    ***************
    Answer: Bought and sold for English Gold! 

  61. velofello says:

    This warrants periodic repeating Rev. And Gordon Brown’s “equalisation” strategy.
    Thought for the day: How do you think the rich and famous deal with threats to their wealth?
    Independence via the 2014 referendum or independence when the cuts initiated by the rich and famous start to bite a few years or so later.
    Why wait a few years?  Go search, learn, and think. The  McCrone report is but part of the story.
     

  62. Jiggsbro says:

    I didn’t understand Hoy’s comments at all.
     
    But they do explain why GB doesn’t win very many medals in the Winter Olympics.

  63. seoc says:

    @ Shinty. 4.03
    Vote YES and save our Nation.

  64. ronald alexander mcdonald says:

    According to The Treasury Scotland produced a £4.4bn surplus last year, in relation to taxes raised and allocated to Scotland.
    That equated to an annual deficit to GDP of 5%, compared to The UK’s 7.9%.
    Do you trust the Treasury? If you answered no, you win a cookie. The actual figure is circa £5.9bn. The first thing they did was to allocate Scotland’s share of national debt payments of £4.1bn. Should have been £2.6bn.
    Scotland’s more accurate annual deficit circa 4% of GDP. 
     

  65. Jeannie says:

    UK? Seen its day. Vote Scotland.

  66. Frazer Allan Whyte says:

    Frazer Allan Whyte says:
    29 May, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    to CamronB: don’t be afraid of reading the Guardian – just reverse-read any “factual” comments and view the rest as zany comedy. I’ve lived in Istanbul for the last 24 years and imagine my surprise to read a Guardian article by Jeffrey Sachs yesterday praising the infrastructure of Turkey because ” …a high-speed intercity rail network links Ankara with other parts of the country.” In fact there is no high speed network  of any kind in Turkey. They are building one but since they need better tracks, for more than a year now there has been NO functioning railway of any kind between greater Istanbul (pop. about 20 million) and the capital Ankara (pop.about 5 million). Currently there is no direct railway connection between any of the major cities of Western Turkey – this is not the current governments fault as they inherited decades of infrastructure neglect. But this total reversal of fact is apparently an ingrained characteristic of the “serious” paper that strikes fear into your heart. Be of good cheer – it is a dependable paper nationally and internationally. If it says the “Yes” campaign is faltering then get your application for your future Scottish Passport ready now. 

      

  67. CameronB says:

    @ Frazer Allan Whyte
    Looks like Scotland has more in common with Turkey than I imagined, given that HS2 will come no further north than Manchester. And on the back of another property bubble to boot, in order to fund it.
     
    @ Molly
    Thanks. I wouldn’t say that I am downhearted, as all the recent events have kind of gone our way. Perhaps it is down to which side you get out of the bed, but some days I just can not face all the lies and Pavlovian dog whistles. I suppose I must be human after all. :) Re. Kirsty. I avoid the Beeb as much as possible, so don’t know what her political leaning is. They must have been having kittens in the studio though. Now that is a cheery thought. :)
     
     

  68. Albert Herring says:

    @Yesitis
    We’re definitely slacking here – our “online army” of Cybernats’ “campaign of abuse” only seems to have managed four exceedingly mild tweets.
    Come on guys, we need to raise our game ffs

  69. The Flamster says:

    I just say “Vote No and it will be the biggest mistake you ever make” and then wait for the backlash :)

  70. Frances says:

    CameronB
    Go on into the Guardian – great reading below the line.   (I never actually read Severin’s articles)

  71. Shinty says:

    O/T
    Seems IDS has been creative with his statistics on disability fraud etc.
     
    http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/2013/05/duncan-smith-face-grilling-mps-over-misuse-statistics.
     
     
     
     
     

  72. CameronB says:

    @ Frances
    I usually enjoy ripping in to Severin and his fellow unionist bullhorns, but I decided to take today as a holiday. I’m only human and so not immune to the corrosive effects of the Dark Side. It is late now, let’s see what tomorrow brings.

  73. Cath says:

    “Whether we get a YES vote this time or not  I’m stayin until we do. 
     
    Up until quite recently I also felt if it was a NO I’d leave as I couldn’t bear to stay in a Scotland that had voted NO, not for any good reason, but just because Better Together’s “they’re all stupid, if we just lie and use enough propaganda they’ll vote the way we tell them” turned out to be right. And I couldn’t bear to watch the result of a NO either.
     
    But recently I’ve begun to feel a lot more cheery about the outcome either way. If there is a NO vote, I suspect many people – even those who voted no or didn’t vote – will feel unexpectedly disappointed. (If it’s a YES, I also suspect many fearful, wary folk, possibly even ones who voted no will feel surprisingly elated).
     
    Now, imagine there is a no and, after that no, people begin to wake up too late to the lies and the missed opportunities. And imagine the 2015 election results in a Tory/UKIP coalition with Boris and Nigel at it’s head. Or hell, even imagine Labour win and we have one-nation Milliband as leader. We will be having cuts on a huge scale, welfare changes will be hideous, Trident will be being renewed.
     
    Now consider, what can Labour and the Lib Dems in Scotland actually do or say against all this? No one who voted NO, and certainly no one who actively campaigned for a no vote and lied through their teeth to secure it, will have any right to complain about Westminster. If they do, it will certainly be met with well if we’d voted Yes we’d be independent by now and not run by Westminster: this is what you were so desperate for us to choose, remember? This is your win. 
     
    The fireworks following a NO vote if the UK is dragging us all ever further right, and possibly out the EU, and we have no control and have passed up the only opportunity we’ve ever had to vote to take control could be quite fun to watch. In a horrible way, admittedly, and I’d rather we didn’t end up there. But if we do, I’ll certainly stay and enjoy the show.
     

  74. Morag says:

    I can’t leave.  I lived in England for 25 years, which was all fine and dandy, but it wasn’t home.  Now I’m home, and sometimes I could just hug the very ground under my feet.

    I realise not everybody feels like this, but I can’t help it.  I’m the Scottish Soldier personified.

  75. Bill C says:

    @Morag – Ditto. Scotland’s home, born here, lived here and will die here.  If we don’t vote YES next year, (I increasingly think we will), the deal is not done.  Many of us have been arguing for independence for most of our lives and we will continue to do that and if we die before we achieve it, others are following in our footsteps. Scotland will be an independent nation again.

  76. molly says:

    Right you lot ,who got the message from control centre and forgot to pass it on ? Seems we’ve all been gnatting Chris Hoy according to the front page of the Telegraph. 
    Wisnae me ah was doin the dishes …

  77. Bill C says:

    @molly – Typical smear from the Torygraph and no mention of the threats to Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon. Usual Brit. double standards.

  78. Dee says:

    This spending review coming up in June could be the vote winner, how can they cut another 11billion pounds from a country already on its knees..

  79. The Man in the Jar says:

    Like Morag I could not leave. For me age might have something to do with it! In event of a no vote I might consider selling up and moving to a wee bothy somewhere up the West Coast. Exactly where who knows. I won’t mind as long as it is about 200 miles from west central.

  80. velofello says:

    Nicely expressed Morag. Me too.

  81. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Bill C
    I agree. I just want to leave the place in a better condition than I found it!

  82. Bill C says:

    @The Man in the Jar says: ” I just want to leave the place in a better condition than I found it!”  My sentiments exactly. Well said.

  83. Tris says:

    mato21 says:Tris

    Am I wrong in thinking that the Scottish government has to pay for the privilege of having Mickey the mouse that would not roar looking after our interests?
     
    Yes, that’s my understanding. Micky and his Scottish Office budget have to come out of the block grant. I think it was Jim Murphy that had the whole of Dover House redecorated so as to waste Scottish money in London adn deny it to Scotland and the SNP government.

  84. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Seems we’ve all been gnatting Chris Hoy according to the front page of the Telegraph.”

    And the Herald, and the Mail, and the Scotsman, and who knows what else by tomorrow. The examples they’ve dredged up are pathetically feeble, but I suppose we should be grateful they’ve at least bothered to provide evidence this time.

  85. Indion says:

     
    Scottish and English editions?

  86. Indion says:

     
    Shouldn’t have to ask, but I’ve been watching the BBC’s new series on the 2nd Iraq War on BBC 2 London at 9pm and again on BBC 2 Scotland at 11:20pm after Newsnicht.
     
    Its VG on how absence of evidence for evidence of absence was ‘fixed’ into evidence of presence between 3rd and 4th hand accounts by the ‘It’s a slam dunk’ CIA in Cheney’s VP camp and which Powell’s State Dept then had to sell at the UN.

    All, we’re told, because the US leadership thought Saddam would supply AK with WMD, which he might have, had he not had those remaining destroyed after being kicked out of Kuwait in the 1st war, doing so iaw the UN Resolutions cease fire terms, but not reporting he had as therein also stipulated.   

  87. CameronB says:

    Didn’t watch it Indion, though no doubt it was the BBC’s sanitised account of history. For an alternative, why not check out this interview with General Wesley Clark. Retired 4-star U.S. Army general, Supreme Allied Commander of NATO during the 1999 War on Yugoslavia .
     
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/we-re-going-to-take-out-7-countries-in-5-years-iraq-syria-lebanon-libya-somalia-sudan-iran/5166

  88. Macart says:

    @Cyborg-nat
     
    This may be more brutal and pointed but is contemporary,
    “Vote No, get shafted”.
     
    Can’t argue with that. :)

  89. Macart says:

    @Morag and Bill C
     
    Know exactly what you mean. I’ve done my share of wandering and spent time in places where I was made more than welcome. Scotland though is home. No other word for it…. home.

  90. Davy says:

    Yesterday, as I was driving home I had to drop in to another part of our company to pass on some info, one of the guys there commented on my YES badge I told him it was for my support of the YES campaign for scottish indpendence. Then another lad came out with ‘why’? I said so Scotland can make its own decisions, he disagree’d so I asked him for a positive case for the union and he said “everything is fine the way it is”, we didnt say to much more as I had to leave. But thinking about what this guy said I had to put it into its true context with what I know about the man, and its just fits into his personality, a complete selfcentred, selfish. me me me, prick.
     
    So I don’t think he will ever be a yes vote but the great thing about it was the other two people in the room could see him in all his glory, and did not look impressed, and as he is only the second person who I have met in the last six months who is definately a NO, I have at least four who are now a YES  within the same time and I am working on another couple right now.
     
    Their is positives in every situation, lets use them, lets use the info in this article for the benefit of the YES campaign and promote the positive factors of being independent, and how Westminster won’t be able to place such cuts on the people of Scotland with independence, tell this to your family, friends, workmates and even the stranger you meet on your travels.
     
    Vote NO – get nothing.
     
    Vote YES – get RESPECT.
     
    Alba Gu Brath.
          

  91. Sapheneia says:

    Italian economic disaster worsens as they strike Europe’s biggest onshore crude oil fields?  This stupid US news service and those daft Italians seem to think that finding a volatile commodity that the whole World needs will help their economic situation!
    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-05-29/oil-fields-under-olive-groves-offer-italy-economic-boost.html
    We need to send the UK Treasury team out there to sort this out.

  92. Boorach says:

    @ Davy
     
    It should be pointed out to that naysayer colleague of yours that he could be but one payday away from discovering just how ‘fine’ everything is not.
     
    Strength to your elbow.

  93. Training Day says:

    On Chris Hoy.. I’m worried that significant amounts of people might not take his views into account when casting their vote in 2014. 

  94. Robert Kerr says:

    “Didn’t he do well”
    I didn’t do well from the union. No dividend for me or many others.
    Saor Alba

  95. HandandShrimp says:

    Had a short fairly light hearted discussion on independence at work and two don’t knows are now leaning strongly to Yes. I haven’t come across all that many die hard Noes. They must exist but I think the No vote is softer than BT think it is.
     
    Of course a week is a long time in poliics but as the UK meanders from one failure to the next and with the prospect of an ever more pronounced swing to the right from the three main parties in Westminster, the Yes camp has definite materiel to work with.  

  96. Boorach says:

    @ Robert Kerr
     
    Oh aye he did well All right. Grabbed all the grants going to maintain his lifestyle while being subsidised by Jock Tamson’s Bairns.

    Sounds like a trougher to me.

  97. Shinty says:

    Boorach/Davy
    Absolutely, I don’t think people realise just how vulnerable they are.
     
    I have a friend who appeared to be comfortably well off (not weathly) but good job, mortgage paid up etc. a bit of savings aside to upgrade his car. Then, an unexpected operation came along, recovery time due to complications meant he was off work for 5 months. Which meant he and his family had to live on £86 SSP, needless to say his savings were all eaten up by the time he went back to work.
     
    Another friend, pretty much as above, good job, bought his first home, all his saving went on the deposit. Six months after buying his new home the company he worked for went bust and all he got was a weeks notice and not a penny more. He was one of the lucky ones, he managed to get a job about 4 months later, but with all the extra commitments his new house brought it was a real struggle for him.
     
    So for anyone to say things are fine as they are – just ask them how long they could afford to be off work before they started feeling the pinch.
     
    Only with independence can we protect the welfare and our citizens whatever their circumstances. A vote No will bring nothing but further cuts, more homelessness and further depravation.
    Vote Yes – save our nation (or something along those lines)
     

  98. Vronsky says:

    The future after a No vote, from the Independent.

    ‘More than half a million Britons have resorted to using food banks to stave off hunger and destitution, the Government has been warned.

    Major charities signalled their alarm over a dramatic rise in the nation’s “hidden hungry” – families who are forced to ask for help to feed themselves – because of wage cuts, the squeeze on benefits and the continuing economic downturn. The numbers have trebled in the past year alone and are likely to continue rising rapidly despite Britain’s status as one of the world’s wealthiest nations, according to a joint report by Oxfam and Church Action on Poverty.’

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/hungry-britain-more-than-500000-people-forced-to-use-food-banks-warns-oxfam-8636743.html

  99. Jiggsbro says:

    ‘More than half a million Britons have resorted to using food banks to stave off hunger and destitution, the Government has been warned.’
     
     
    The Government replied “Excellent! That’s the Big Society in action”.

  100. Boorach says:

    Just a thought but as we’re supposed to glorify the start of the 1914 hostilities next year I think we should hijack the unfulfilled promise given to those who sacrificed so much in that pointless war.
     
    Let’s, at long last, build a LAND FIT FOR HEROES

  101. Bill C says:

    Interesting and potentially game changing story here http://t.co/q0hVJtQJfZ. Looks like more oil for Scotland and more dirty tricks from Westminster.

  102. Robert Louis says:

    This business about the cyclist Chris Hoy, is frankly absurd.  I have looked at the ‘supposed’ abusive comments, and I can see nothing offensive.  What I see are dissenting voices, that disagree with what Hoy says about Scotland and in particular his personal opinion on Scottish sport.  Many find his views on Scotland and Scottish sport offensive.
     
    We live in a democracy, so I cannot see what is wrong with disagreeing with Hoy – or is he beyond question, a unionist ‘untouchable’??  Too, too precious to disagree with?
     
    If anybody, regardless of who they are starts slagging off their own country, then I think people are perfectly entitled to speak their mind about the matter.  Nothing Hoy has said, is demonstrably factual, it is his OPINION.  
     

     
    As for the bitter together campaign, the Scottish cringe is truly alive and well in some Scottish unionists.  Bought and sold for London’s gold, indeed.
     
    Vote YES in 2014.

  103. The Man in the Jar says:

    I think that there is a distinct lack of deference here. Is it not SIR Chris Hoy? Any more of this and it is remedial forelock tugging for you lot!

  104. Dorothy Devine says:

    To be fair to Sir Chris he stated that Scots training facilities were rubbish and that scots  have to train elsewhere – a state of affairs one could describe as ” another union dividend” .
    It is shameful that Scots ,Welsh and NI ,have been ignored in this regard.
    I look forward to a plethora of swimming pools , cycle tracks , running tracks etc. after the Commonwealth Games ,with additional facilities across the country to encourage our young and old to a healthier lifestyle in an independent Scotland.
     

  105. Shinty says:

    Dorothy
    I look forward to a plethora of swimming pools , cycle tracks , running tracks etc. after the Commonwealth Games ,with additional facilities across the country to encourage our young and old to a healthier lifestyle in an independent Scotland.
    Absolutely! and I also hope that our state schools could afford to run after school sports and outdoor activities as seen in many private schools. This can really help students, as many may not be ’academically’ clever but can excel in other ways. This goes for music too.

  106. Indion says:

     
    Before I went off-piste after 12:37 yesterday for the waited for Hoy and cry of no surprise none in the English editions, I might have best offered this:
     
    Among the many reasons I’m on my way home to vote YES, is so that no one need ever leave Scotland again unless they wish too.
     
    Like any exam leads to a judgement – not only on success, but a capability and capacity to continue to succeed in future, in our instance and present case before us for full self-governance - so this in our time here and now (it’s yet to come or maybe again being a survived so far fallacy) is the test of our personal and plural resolve to do and not be put off doing.

    We’re already ahead through the rights of passage put behind us, cleared away from now only that in front ahead to focus on making Scotland our own for a just and so strong, prosperous society to share in mutual interest with our neighbours here, near and further afield across the seas and beneath the skies they bide in going to and fro from.
     
    And for that, we need simply to get on with being the change we wish to see by getting on with it …. after checking out the YES pointers so we don’t go too far astray from the pulling and pushing ahead with, not least to feed back more and/or other meaningful and worthwhile ideas, that I’m sure our YES self-governance team will be enlighted to read in looking into in furtherance of ways, means and ends of, by and from our people for our people.
     
    It’s a we not a too wee nor poor nor stupid thing.
     
    Hey, if we go on like this, we  might even get to like this introduction to a much more participative form of self-governance.  What do you think the people’s manifesto for independence should be?  What do we need to make sure is in our constitution and by when in draft if not final form?
     
    What details should we give the Unitarist  MSM to think about in the meantime?  A Scottish Broadcasting Co-Operative Service?  Whole-factual unbiased reporting alongside the inevitably prejudiced or informed preference of opinion we can examine in the light of our own lived experience?  Public funded investigative journalism as a counterweight to the private funded, shallow populist rheportoric of churnalism? Or a diversity to pick up in regard and put down to discard?  Self-regulated or bound by law to express the legitimate, when law itself is legitimacy in transition to law if necessary for the avoidance of doubt as to what is lawful or not to be tested for veracity?
     
    Questions upon questions to be asked and answered before or after deciding where: alone, in families, with friends and fellow folk, in communities of mutual interest, in councils and courts to serve our public interest, then where next?
     
    Our parliament for our place – or somewhere else for many places - first and foremost?.

  107. Indion says:

     
    CameronB @ 30 May 1:22am about my 12:47am:
     
    In case you revisit this blogpost by Rev Stu, I’ve left a response to your 1:22am above in Quarantine @ 31 May 1:33am



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