Eliminating uncertainty
In the wake of the story carried by many newspapers today about Scottish Labour changing its position on the devolution of taxation for (by our count) the 15th time, we thought it only fair that we should let each of the three candidates for the branch office managership explain it in their own words.
We’re certain that it’ll all be clear once they’re finished.
We don’t have the time to transcribe the entire segment, but we’ve paraphrased each of the contenders’ responses for quick reference below.
Should income tax be completely devolved?
SARAH BOYACK: “I’m not sure, because pooling and sharing resources. We should wait for the Smith Commission’s report.”
NEIL FINDLAY: “Only if Scotland will be guaranteed to be no worse off, which would of course negate the entire point of devolving income tax in the first place – the only way to definitely ensure Scotland won’t be worse off is to leave income tax exactly as it is, but I haven’t thought that through. We should wait for the Smith Commission’s report.”
JIM MURPHY: “We have to deliver on The Vow and do what’s best for Scotland. Not all Yes voters wanted independence*. We should wait for the Smith Commission’s report.”
What should the basic rate of income tax be?
NEIL FINDLAY: “You can’t say at this stage.”
Are you against Scotland having different tax rates to the rest of the UK?
NEIL FINDLAY: “I’m in favour of progressive taxation, which has absolutely nothing to do with the question you asked me. The SNP are bad, because they wanted to cut Corporation Tax, like Labour did twice the last time we were in power but now it’s evil and wrong because of reasons.”
JIM MURPHY: “I’m in favour of progressive taxation, which has absolutely nothing to do with the question you asked me. It’s fine to have higher tax rates in Scotland to the rest of the UK, so long as it’s only the top rate and not the basic rate. I don’t want to have sex with my mum.”
SARAH BOYACK: “I don’t think we should decide anything about tax rates until after the 2015 election, then we should do whatever UK Labour says.”
Surely now nobody can be anything but crystal-clear on the precise details of each candidate’s plans for income tax should they become Scottish Labour “leader” and subsequently First Minister. It took eight and a half minutes of airtime to glean the information above, readers, but we think you’ll agree it was worth it.
.
* That bit’s not a paraphrase. He said those exact words.
Lord save us from this shower c
“Its impossible for we Branch Managers to talk about the Head Office strategy, particularly where the Head Office and the Branch operate in different economic circumstances.
So what we have to do is wait to see if London Labour get in in May, and then figure out how best to spin London Labour policies around the Smith findings and Scotland’s completely different requirements.
SNP Bad.
I’m relaxed – hail fellow well met and all that artificial bonhomie.
When I saw your asterisked comment at the end, I immediately went searching Jim Murphy’s comment about sex with his mum; how disappointed I was!
When you pay more in taxes than you receive in government spending for the last 3 decades you are definitely worse off.
That is Scotland’s current position.
There were three Labour crows upon a tree
They were as black as black could be
Said one Labour crow unto the other
You are my decietful lying Labour Brother
I am beginning to think these idiots believe that this is 1979 and that we are just going to lie down and take their pish.
BIG mistake.
Jim Murphy “a Socialist”, WTF! He’s surely taking the pish now.
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence”. That’s not the most ridiculous thing that Murphy said here. He also described himself as a socialist. Lol.
The Labour Party in Scotland are just getting in the way now. They are the problem.
Not all YES voters wanted independence whispered the Smugurph.
WTF?
Hear no evil!
See no evil!
Speak no evil!
What was the question again?
We will mumble jumble mumble mumble SNP bad mumble mumble mumble SNP bad … 😛
Clear as mud!
Glad I didn’t waste 8.5 minutes on listening to them basically telling everyone they don’t have a clue what they are talking about & haven’t had their instructions handed down from Ed’s office yet. Clearly instructions will be a long time coming as he has to make up his mind first.
That would have been time lost forever & I’d rather use my time more constructively, thanks. Feel sorry for you Rev you have to watch all this stuff & analyse it- still I guess it’s tough at the top! (Joking)
“Not all YES voters wanted independence.” Really? What planet does Jim Murphy live on? Let’s avoid it when we start to explore beyond our solar system… they’re feckin weird out there…..
@Grahamlive
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence”. That’s not the most ridiculous thing that Murphy said here.
It’s a pathetic spin. “Yes we know you Labour voters only voted YES, just as a protest, because you wanted change. Now we are the party of change. We will deliver change to Scotland.’
Complete desperate tosh. Hoping upon hope that they can claw back some Labour supporters…
Hoping that we forget they stood with the Tories and scared the electorate.
Hoping that we forget their expense accounts and valuable careers
Hoping that we forget that they have done precisely nothing for Scotland in decades.
But thats not important. What is important is the impossibility of balancing London Labour policy with Scotland’s needs. How are they going to finesse, hide, spin, bluff, obfuscate this impossible task?
The answer is they are going to lie and hope that enough people are not switched on. These people cannot give a straight answer to a straight question.
And its going to be a useful skill in the coming months.
@Yesitis
Labour are now the problem, not the solution.
Brilliant.
Leadership, clarity and vision are three things you will not get from the wannabe OneNation Sub Office Branch administrators.
I can’t believe people watch this and think, yeah this is what I want. This’ll do it.
Surprised you missed out Murphy’s clincher:
“The days when Slabour politicians had to answer questions from the likes of you, Gordon, are over.”
Other than subject matter, his Cosby impression is spot on.
so how are they going to expand the tax payer base again?
i missed that bit.
Jim Murphy doesn’t want to have sex with his mum? Maybe not but he’s obviously been thinking about it.
The SNP should just put this up on one of those video billboards in the middle of Glasgow and let everyone see the total guff British Labour have become in Scotland.
They must have a list which each possible answer numbered.
When asked, they throw a dice and read the corresponding one out! 🙂
Ye very funny Rev.You had me going there.Bit too subtle for likes of me.
These 3 people represent all that is wrong with unionist establishment politicians.No vision, no knowledge of their subject,just party careerists.
This is even before Smith Commision produces whatever it is they’ve decided is best for red and blue Tory Scotland, the purring queen, then Westminster, then teamGB and eventually Scotland. So brace brace brace for the dumping of world class UKOK bullshit by our imperial masters.
Jim Murphy’s claim to be a progressive, and a socialist is the funniest thing to come out of this whole SLAB leadership fiasco, and that is saying a lot. 😀 The guy’s entire time in politics is probably the furthest you could get from being a progressive or a socialist, bar actually being a Tory anyway (and lets face it, why the fuck would a Tory ever claim to be a socialist)? The claim that some Yes voters did not vote for independence was incredibly patronising and arrogant, it is as if Murphy knows what Yes voters were thinking when they voted.
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence” Whit?! Did they think they were voting for a Rick Wakeman comeback tour?
“Not all yes voters wanted independence” – aye right, just you go on believing that if it gives you comfort son (meanwhile … tick tock)
If you believe in a greater power, pray to it that these three never get to run our great wee country.
I hope anyone giving it “Sarah Boyack is okay” watches that and sees just another Labour lickspittle willing to do and say anything\nothing as shes told just like all the rest of them.
I liked the obvious way the 3 had agreed to attack and blame Gordon Brewer rather than answer the questions, quell surprise.
Scotland is a nice little earner for WM. As we all know, the net flow of wealth has been southward, for decades. Labour’s job was to keep it that way. They still believe that is their job. They openly call it ‘pooling and sharing’. FFA is the exact opposite.
The problem they now have is that more and more Scots understand the true situation and know what SLab is about. Minority SNP government in 2007. Majority from 2011. Looks like WM 2015 and Holyrood 2016 are going to continue the trend of Labour being pushed aside. And, they are getting exactly what they deserve – consigned to the garbage heap.
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence”. Wow. They should carve that on his gravestone.
Murphy may not have actually said the words’I don’t want to have sex with my mum’ but he certainly is one big motherfucker.
Ninja Penguin says
“Did they think they were voting for a Rick Wakeman comeback tour?”
When? where?
It just sounded like the same old pish.
Brewster didn’t challenge their waffle with any bite or dedication. I listened to that cringeworthy threesome love-in and then switched off. Instead I used the time better to meet German friends, over here for a festive visit.
They determine Scotland must have another referendum. (Their words.) “It was too close to call a defeat. Another is a democratic certainty.” Nice people, the Germans.
sandra
tactical yes voters!? 🙂
labour are seriously deluded.
At least we all now know that Jim Murphy has denied that he is a motherf***er. He’ll probably change his mind shortly.
Sorry O/T again
Live Independence Broadcasting Lesley Riddoch: and alternative media ON NOW http://tinyurl.com/q6tn5ve
2 minutes in, “all we can say is what we believe in” from Boyack. What a trio of shysters they are.
Obviously Murphy must wait until the Smith Commission tells him if he should have sex with his mum.
Well that’s all as clear as mud then. I am so glad that they pitched their views and policies on devolving income tax so succinctly.
I think we must also thank the BBC for so vigorously challenging their position on taxes and putting to bed once for all the pesky question of Devolution of Taxation.
Nothing to say here.. Move along now..
I did like how Sarah went into JoLa “Pooling and Sharing Resources” mode..lol
The 3 leading lights in The Scottish Labour Party, a damp match,
a candle with no wick, and a 20 Watt Bulb that hasn’t been screwed in-Yet! God help the three of them.
I hope that their Westmonster masters have afforded them Sat Nav or I don’t see them making their own way home from the studio. lol
not all yes supporters wanted independence
care to highlight the ones who voted for independence but did not want it Jim
Theirs life Jim but not as we know it
He’s right you know. I voted Yes because I wanted Jim to be elected President.
Coming, nurse! 😉
Hmm I thought we already had the three stooges BEFORE the referendum
(frightening)
I really think the sex reference to JM is out of order and not at all suitable.
Oh lordy lordy. Not a spine nor an original thought or idea amongst them. We have to wait to be told what to say and do.
God help Scotland if this shower ever get back into power. Would skeletor care to share with us why in his view that not all yes voters wanted independence.
Lowlife schysters. Yuk.
Well said Paula Rose, these remarks are out of order.
I voted Yes because:-
I wanted to see Cameron cry
Gordo said I shouldn’t
I didn’t like that Alistair Darling
it was the box at the top
anything has to be better than Westminster
…
Our Jim is ALWAYS right ( more so than Stu even 😀 )
Grouse beater
I met a German guy on the Velika Plaza south of Ulcinj ten days after the Ref, he asken me why we had voted no, he just couldn’t get his head round it and neither could my chums in Montenegro, much big riddys from me !
@Paula,
I so agree about that comment, which is also omniphobic in all sorts of ways. Plus, for gender balance, the Rev should have made it crystal clear that JM did not seek intimate relations with his Dad either
Whereas the Scottish Labour leader candidates seem to be in agreement that the colour of shite is as yet indistinguishable, similar consensus is not so forthcoming within the SNP regarding the next referendum.
From the Herald online:
“Unlike some others, I believe we will have a referendum in 2017,” [Sandra White] told delegates in a break-out session called Radical Change Now.
[…]
A source close to the First Minister said: “Sandra White knows f*** all – and you can quote me on that.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/veteran-snp-msp-predicts-a-second-referendum-in-2017-x.25941265
I also disagree with Sandra White, and think we’re looking at 2021/2022, but whoever the “source close to the FM” is, that’s a shocking statement to make to the press.
I don’t know if anyone else has picked up on this, (because I don’t have time to read all the comments) but at 6.09 into that clip, Spud Murphy says,
“And I think It’s important, as a Socialist, as a Progressive, that the idea of having a more progressive tax system in Scotland is one that we should be relaxed about…”
I am old enough to remember that, for decades, the Tories in Scotland labelled themselves for election to local councils as “Progressive”.
Does Murphy’s opinion, expressed to Gordon Brewer, mean that he is admitting that he has the mentality of a Tory local councillor?
That would explain a lot about why plans gang aft agley in the Labour branch office (Scotland)…
Apologies if this has already been covered on WOS but
just came across it when looking for something else.
Dirty tricks row over Labour leadership voting booklet:
https://archive.today/pQK2l
“Jim, your life and your career stand for rationality, not for intellectual chaos. Keep up this emotional behavior, and you’ll lose everything. You’ll destroy yourself. Do you understand me, Jim?”
Oddly Appropriate!
( Star Trek III: The Search For Spock )
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence”. Really? The man is a moron!
Not only did they have no idea about taxation issues, always useful for leadership candidates, right enough, but they were clearly flustered about getting serious questions thrown at them. Murhpy was in a state of shock that a BBC poltical journalist dare ask him a question that a) wasn’t previously agreed and b) put him on the spot that he turned to bluster and claimed he was a progressive socialist when everyboby knows he is a right wing Blairite at the very least. It’s funny that none of them even seriously planned to be elected in 2015/6, knowing damned fine that they have little chance of forming a government in Scotland or Westminster, otherwise they would have been prepared with figures that, although not written in stone, were doable should they be elected to form a government in 2015/6. Clearly labour head office either isn’t in control of the future leadership of their northern most suboffice, or they have deserted them as a lost cause because they didn’t want any of them in the first place.
OK, I’ve just caught up with the posts previous to my post (I MADE time!) and I’m safe – nobody else had picked up on it.
I am now a happy chappie.
25% of NO voters want full fiscal autonomy.
70% of the electorate want full fiscal autonomy.
YES voters wanted Independence.
So, let me get this right, according to this idiot, some people went into the polling booth and put a cross in the Yes box but they didn’t want independence? So as well as some dodgy voting papers with a plain back, there were some that didn’t have a No box. And this clown hopes to be First Minister one day. Thank God there is more chance of Neil Findlay winning Personality of the Year.
@kininvie & Paula Rose –
I third concern over the language being used.
We have to keep the moral high ground, and should vow never again to call Murphy a mo-fo. Unless it’s to his face.
What a bizarre interview. 3 people who are all absolutely terrified of Gordon Brewer.
Sarah Boyack looked scared and tried to say nothing of any substance that could be used to trip her up instread simply repeating labour platitudes.
Neil Findlay came across as way out of his depth, so afraid of Gordon Brewer (intellectually his superior by a mile) trapping him that he said nothing at all, attacking Brewer out of fear and repeating that labour platitude that makes me want to kill:
‘Those with the broadest shoulders should bear the heaviest burden’. It was probably a neat little phrase the first time a labour politician uttered it ONCE. Ever since then they repeat the same stock phrase like some kind of brainwashed drug addled experimental subjects.
Pooling a sharing is another piece of mind sludge that is just as irritating. It’s like saying ‘I believe in taxation. Is there a politician who is against pooling and sharing? The questions are how much should be taken from different groups, in what ways and where should it be spent. And who should decide.
Experimental subject 3 displays psychopathic traits and I’d rather he had no power over me and my family. He slides from relaxed (or not bothered?) almost disinterested through that creepy whisper to sudden bouts of animation and strange aggression. He had no idea of the answer to Gordon Brewer’s question and just waffled pish.
Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you the cream of the Scottish branch of the Labour Party. Nicola, if she watches that will be creasing herself.
Three craws sat upon a wa. These 3 ejits are the best the slab stable has to offer, If they ain’t stuffed at the moment they soon will be.
Gordon Brewer totally useless, a labour plant, cabbage I think.
Then there was the voters in Kircaldy being interviewed aboot big Gordies impending retirement. “A wonderful man,” said one guy. FFS.
The EBC are pushing the boat out for their labour ("Quizmaster" - Ed)s. WELL DONE EBC.
McBoxheid
yes, murphy was clearly shaken by being put on the spot, as he was unable to go into his usual defensive rant.
re my displeasure at some of the Rev’s content, Ben Elton in the 80’s made a “joke” about Norman Tebbit’s Mother-in-law – the lady in question was my grandmother, a most delightful woman. So please can we stop these silly infantile attempts at “humour”?
I watched that and after 8 minutes I was still no wiser to what they actually want. Findlay came closest to saying that he wouldn’t mind having full tax raising powers but then hedged his bets a tad.
All very affable though, why is an internal vote in the Labour Party getting so much air time again? None of us have a vote in the matter.
If you voted Yes, you voted FOR Independence
If you voted No you voted against.
Simples.
But reverse Murphoids statement and hey presto
Whaddaya know, some No voters voted FOR Independence (or as damn as near Independence as can be promised).
Sounds preposterous yes, but less so than JM’s analogy.
Trying to keep the lavvie lid on thon “silent majority” of thiers methinks.
Piemonteis at 8.15
Ah, the unnamed source – this time “close to the First Minister”.
I think “You can quote me on that” means “you can name me”.
So why no name?
Journalistic tricks.
I think the next referendum has to be as soon as possible – long before 2020 – or there may never be another one.
A UK economic collapse remains a distinct possibility if rampant inflation does not serve to solve the economy’s problems (while impoverishing a huge section of the population).
But that’s the prospects and the political reaction to either is hard to accurately predict.
@Ian Brotherhood,
“Unless it’s to his face”
I heard mention somewhere this week that he’s behind a proposed new law to prevent anyone from doing just that.
Something along the lines of an anti bawling at public officials law, I jest you not.
Square Haggis
Whaddaya know, some No voters voted FOR Independence
Seeing as there were more of them, does this mean we actually won? If we deduct from the Yes vote all the Yes voters who didn’t vote for independence but add all the No voters who actually wanted independence then surely we win, no?
Murphy – ‘Not all Yes voters wanted independence’! – How the …. did he work that one out?
that whispery voice just gets my goat
@Tam Jardine,
Now that’s spin! 😉
@Paula Rose @8.00pm
I totally agree with you on that sentiment.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
I can’t tell if by “journalistic tricks” you mean that the quote has been made up or that the “source close to the FM” might not be particularly close.
If it’s the first, I don’t think it’s likely that, if Tom Gordon has put his name to the article, a quote containing “and you can quote me on that” would be made up. There’s blatantly biased journalism and then there’s ethically corrupt journalism.
If it’s the latter, then you’re probably right. If we put it this way, it’s not going to be John Swinney or Stuart Hosie’s quote. But still, anyone with any level of authority should be careful not to say something so stupid.
I do wonder if there’s an ongoing frustration with Sandra White and her proximity to Radical Independence or the more vocal side of the 45 movement within the SNP hierarchy, and this might just be another manifestation of that.
Personally, I think it would be suicide to have a referendum before 2020, but I recognize others are too impatient for it.
@SquareHaggis –
I hadn’t heard that, but I’m not surprised after the earful he got outside Grand Central Hotel. I had the great pleasure of voicing my opinion of him, and he was only about fifteen feet away, but no way he heard me over the din.
More I think about it, with hindsight, his behaviour that night was reckless and deliberately provocative – here’s hoping the high-heid yins in Police Scotland have had a quiet word with him about inciting violence, because it was their officers who ended up having to shield him from some very seriously enraged people –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQjI4ihRCY8
I, also agree with Paula Rose. No idea who his mother is but she doesn’t seem to be a political figure. It is offensive in the same way that Jo La’s comments re Alex’s childlessness was offensive to Moira.
Ouch! That was very scary stuff. I have to say after listening to all three, I hope none of them get anywhere need FM. If this is the best the branch office have to offer then they are in much worse shape than I thought.
Murphy is, however, in a league of his own. I understand why Ed wants shot of him. Pity that Scotland may have to take him back.
The fire is still burning in anticipation of those unionists feet.
So, in summary, it’s OK for rich people in Scotland (earning over £150,000 per annum) to have higher tax rates (50%) than people in England earning over £150,000.J
ust how many people in Scotland actually earn over £150,000 per annum and how much extra revenue would be raised? Not that much I suspect.
More importantly people earning over £150,000 p.a. will simply buy/rent a wee 2nd home in rUK (they can afford it) and tell the taxman that THAT property in the rUK is their main residence for tax purposes! Just ask MPs! They do it all the time. It’s called flipping!
God forbid that Scotland has a more attractive tax system than rUK, so far as Labour (Jocks’ Office) is concerned, as this three were appalled at the very idea of a lower basic rate tax! We’ve waded through this swamp before with Johann Lamont.
Labour (Jocks’ Office) branch contenders also do not seem to understand that lowering corporation tax is A GOOD THING for workers, as it creates/sustains jobs; e.g. Game of Thrones wanted to film in Scotland but HAD to go to N Ireland to film due to better tax rates. This has been a huge boost for the Province, bringing in literally millions each year, boosts tourism, (they now have Game of Thrones Tours) and creates work for the creative arts from art students, seamstresses to prop makers etc. etc. When last in N Ireland, I met the N Irish owner of the quarry where they film ‘Castle Black’. HBO literally throws money at him for his old quarry set! He just has to ask! Just look at the Irish actors also on the show. I could go on, but its Sunday and, as I don’t earn £150,000 p.a., I have to put the bins out.
All this basic common sense, re taxes, is so blindingly obvious to everybody apart BBC interviewers. But put a Labour party member and a BBC reporter together, discussing tax, and you quickly lose the will to live.
Bottom line: when you’re talking to the SNP, you’re talking to the organ-grinder; when you talk to UK Labour (Jocks’ Office), you’re talking to the organ-grinder’s monkeys.
My most memorable Jim Murphy quote on this morning’s Politics Scotland programme, was when he blurted out, “I expected you to be a BBC journalist, not my psychiatrist!” I didn’t realise that he had one!
I watched that this morning and was thinking “will one of you answer the f**king question”!
Have to say that Brewer and Skeletor were acting like best pals wi their cheeky wee laughs to each other…
If that’s the best slab can offer, I think we’re in for a decent result at GE 2015????
@Piemonteis
A source close to the First Minister said: “Sandra White knows f*** all – and you can quote me on that.”
http://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/scottish-politics/veteran-snp-msp-predicts-a-second-referendum-in-2017-x.25941265
I also disagree with Sandra White, and think we’re looking at 2021/2022, but whoever the “source close to the FM” is, that’s a shocking statement to make to the press.
I read that this morning, and was fairly surprised at the quote. I don’t agree with Sandra White, and Dave McEwan Hill as well, about having another independence referendum so soon. We are now in the last chance saloon in regards to indy referendums. A second one would have to be timed so well, in fact as to be so sure of a Yes vote as we can possibly be.
That said, that quote was bang out of order IMO. Sandra White, as far as I can tell, is a highly committed, honest and loyal SNP member, and representative. Saying she knows fuck all is a ludicrous response to her comment. The spokesperson only needed to give the usual sound bite, about leaving it to the people of Scotland to indicate through polls, when they next wanted a referendum. I think whoever it was needlessly belittled Sandra White.
It’s all about events. I’d like to think there might be another referendum soon, maybe 2017, but conditions would have to be exactly right and they may very well not be. I think we need to keep all our options open and see what happens, not adopt entrenched positions and paint ourselves into a corner.
I haven’t been posting on here for long – am I allowed to say that the Rev’s comment about Murphy’s Mum thing was wrong? Will I get blocked????
@Ian Brotherhood,
Woah! hadn’t seen that one, boy do you guys know how to heckle!
Eyah, ma lugs.
A wheelie bin would’ve been good 😉
Mo-fo Murphy – it has a certain ring to it…
Murphy relaxed? He’s as tight as a drum – and grabs any money and kudos he can get – tight a@se.
On a more serious note the threee of them were cringeworthy. As a long time lurker during the six months running up to the campaign this site was invlauable to many of us in getting the low down on the MSM garbage of the day and getting to the facts – and it continues to so just that. The role it has in educating us is phenomenal. Knowledge is power and there’s a thirst for knowledge out there in commununities that I’ve never seen before in 30 years of community work. Brilliantly written – and the contibutors have given me an education too. I just wanted to say thanks to each and every one of you. It’s also clear the Wingers on here know far more about politics and Scotland than those three chocolates. What on earth are we paying them for?
Not all labour voters want a labour government, thats why they vote SNP
In regards to language, I have swore in quite a number of my posts. I try to use it for effect, and limit it. I think everyone on here should be careful at how we describe people like Murphy. There really is no use in getting too personal and abusive (in fact you could argue that any abuse is only playing into the agenda of the unionist parties). It does not do us any good.
There was a post by someone I read on on another thread on Wings today that was horrendous, it was referring to Gordon Brown as being a friend of the individual responsible for the Dunblane massacre??…It was really a shocker of a post. It was horribly abusive and way, way over the top, and probably libellous as well.
Given the state of the print media throughout the UK I am sure that the Paper Reviews on TV this evening and BBC “National” News bulletins will mention the emergence of a new newspaper to-morrow.
Muttley 79 & Piemonteis
I don’t believe it-sounds more like MSM tricks starting in earnest. Aim is to destroy SNP & their lead in polls. We’re back to constant misinformation mode folks.
That’s oor wullie! 😀
Looks very likely that Red Ed has told the three stooges to stall for time until he makes his mind up about what Labour’s policy will be on devolution of taxation to Scotland – just like Johann Lamont was told by Red Ed to stall for two years he made his mind up about the Bedroom Tax and what this does demonstrate is that not one of the three stooges is prepared to do say or do anything without Red Ed’s approval.
@ dougiekdy, naw the Rev disnae work like that,he,s mair likly tae book you fur loitering if you dont post up.
@Paula Rose @8.00pm
Totally agree with Paula Rose’s comments and that of others concerning the sex comments – totally unnecessary and inappropriate. Just giving our opponents ammunition to blacken the name of pro-indy online communication/discussion. Lets get some common sense – there is so much good discussion, ideas and insight on this and other web sites. Don’t need such crap!
O/T
Pat Kane on Twitter remarks that it is an extraordinary media event for a new commercial newspaper to ask for the support of a movement. He’s right.
That’s not the only extraordinary thing. Five days is a completely ridiculous length of time to run a use-it-or-lose-it pilot. Most new magazines (which is all I know about) reckon on at least six months before break-even.
Launching a newspaper is usually a massively complex operation, involving endless dummy issues, reader groups, teaser ads – and all kinds of other things, most of which involve money. So, to put in that work and effort and investment – and then to make a judgement in five days….something just doesn’t square.
So, my guess is that Richard Walker has worked out the psychology of the Yes campaign to a T. He’s using the crowdfunding idea without actually crowdfunding, and pressurising us with his deadline. He knows he doesn’t have to run expensive ads, because he knows Yes people will crawl over broken glass to have a bit of the MSM onside. And what better ad can you have than a free pitch in the middle of a 12,000 person rally trending #2 worldwide on Twitter?
I suggest, that on the back of SH sales, he’s wrung quite a lot more investment out of Newsquest than he’s letting on. The five day blackmail means we all rush out and buy it – and then get into the habit. Meanwhile, he can tell his masters that he’s sold out…
And the final masterstroke is cutting off the online subscription ‘because of demand’. Which means we’ll be even more eager to buy a hard copy and jump on the bandwagon.
-Massive respect to him, if this is anywhere near the truth. I, for one, will be buying several copies. I may be a sucker, but what the hell….
Dear God and they want to be First Minister of Scotland.
Labour so needs to go.
@terry –
Mo-fo Murphy is okay, but might still upset some. What about Boney-M? Everyone loved them, and, given Murph’s affinity with Israel, it provides him with a ready-made anthem.
Boney-M, ‘Rivers Of Babylon’ –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ybv4DOj-N0
First time poster on here though have read every posting this year. There seems to be a lot of complaining about the Rev’s comment about Murphy’s Mum. It is clear to me that this was a play on the ‘Freudian’ comment from Gordon Brewer than any attempt to directly slight Murphy or his mum.
Acceptable to me but some of the posts underneath have crossed into bad taste and could look damaging used out of context.
Re: the Rev’s ‘Murphy’s mum’ comment.
I think we should bear in mind (and I’m probably paraphrasing), what Rev Stu has been reported as saying:
“Twitter is my playground; the web site ‘Wings Over Scotland’ is my place of work.”
You may recall Rev Stu’s “scum” comment from a number of months ago. A rare targeted comment that created an MSM furore. Could it be that the Rev has reloaded, to let the MSM run with it?
More publicity for WOS?
Jiss thinkin’ like…
I have to restate that the sooner we have another referendum the better. Our biggest ally in our political battle is growing UK instability which takes their eye off the Scottish ball.
That is now.
We should all realise how quickly political momentum can be lost.
We have momentum now but many of us remember 1974 to 1980.
By 2020 it is likely that whatever the economic circumstance provided by possible events – crash, rampant continuous inflation or a devaluation (which is quicker than inflation but more immediately painful)- there will be a *balanced economy and stability will be back and the UK state with its reliance on Scottish revenues will be able to turn its mind fully again to hanging onto them.
* We should never make the mistake of confusing a balanced economy with the social condition of the population or the prosperity of the workers in it. There have been lots of “balanced economies” on the back of workers earning 50p per day
OT – Greenpeace petition…
http://formregistration.com/register/1026/446/423
Marian says:
23 November, 2014 at 10:18 pm
Looks very likely that Red Ed has told the three stooges to stall for time until he makes his mind up about what Labour’s policy will be on devolution of taxation to Scotland – just like Johann Lamont was told by Red Ed to stall for two years he made his mind up about the Bedroom Tax and what this does demonstrate is that not one of the three stooges is prepared to do say or do anything without Red Ed’s approval.
I agree and it continues to show that these three numpties are write off candidates for a right off party.
I also agree that the Reverend’s comments are a bit uncharacteristic of him and he would be better off if he left such comments to the gutter press. I thought we had the moral high ground on our side and did not need to stoop so low as to call people’s mothers into disrepute.
Ma wee cat minxie has just leapt on my lap for a wee massage – those of you who have met me ken that I’m actually a very serious lady xxx
@Lollysmum
I do not think it was an imaginary quote from Tom Gordon.
Stewartb: Just giving our opponents ammunition to blacken the name of pro-indy online communication/discussion
They don’t need any.
They claim baldly Internet Yes supporters are abusive. Full stop.
Said enough times, somebody on our side is forced to respond and by so doing give credence to the lie … “There are idiots on boths sides but they’re a minority.”
Even Salmond was dragged into that self-defeating rebuttal.
The No camp conducted a vicious, brutal smear campaign for most of the Referendum debate. When they were not throwing dirt they were stoking fears. Not a shred of enduring intellectual argument passed their lips. Mild rebukes sexist comment might be more ammunition are naive, to be frank. They did not hang around for us to hang ourselves, and they will not wait next time around for stray comment.
Another Referendum soon? Nice thought.
What would a mature nation do, one that shrugs off fear and warnings? One that has the courage of its convictions. One that knows its place in teh scheme of things. When the vote returns an independence party to government in great number and strength it retakes what belongs to Scotland and was stolen from it – independence.
Vote for the independence party – get independence.
@ Dave McEwan Hill
I look at it from the other side of the coin. Personally, I would rather have 60%+ voting for independence in 2021 than 50.1% voting in favor in 2017.
If we were to try to win in 2017, it would be a case of reproducing the same arguments and strategies as 2014 and either hoping the death rate falls in our favor or otherwise trying to just about push over the line.
Whereas, as a Robin McAlpine suggests, a longer period would allow us to build on this year’s activity as well as ironing out the key problems we faced in convincing people (e.g. currency). It gives us the time to come up with a better offering of what independence can mean.
I should also say that, if the reason for having an independence referendum earlier is that the momentum will disappear thereafter and we won’t want independence, then that would prove that independence isn’t right for Scotland anyway as we fail to win the argument. That won’t happen though. And it isn’t just momentum that will drive us to independence, but the realization that the argument is stronger for it than against it. I would say we’ve done 75% of the work in persuading people, but we should wait until we’re at 100% (of the persuasion process, not the vote) before calling another one.
I also agree with Muttley that our second chance will be our last, say we better be pretty f’ing sure we’ll win it.
@Paula Rose says:
‘I really think the sex reference to JM is out of order and not at all suitable’……good coming from Wings very own Mrs Slocum.
Mocking is fun and keeps the spirits up, abuse is’nt fun and even the abuser feels no satisfaction, it’s better not to do it you’ll just depress yourself and make all the rest of us look like morons….Please, let’s be the good guys, not the bad guys…
@Ian Brotherhood.
Agreed – Boney M is much better in every way. Witty and above the belt:-) cheers
I met Al Harron – gorgeous lovely man and the scintillating Geraldine.
All 50,000 online copies of the 5day trial for the National appear to have gone already!!!!
I wonder what size of print run they did for Monday?
I think talk of an incestuous relationship on this topic or for that matter on this website is completely out of order and should be moderated. It does nothing for the independence cause and will drive others away.
On a lighter note but in keeping with the discussion..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9BMcA8-4zo
Having commented frequently in the past, why am I having to re-enter my details and my posts are not appearing?
our second chance will be our last
Defeatist claptrap. Outdated, superstitious war fatalism: “If the bomb has your name on it there’s nothing you can do.”
@kininvie –
Cheers mister – you have expressed what I suspected, but didn’t dare mention for fear of being branded a cynic.
Given the sheer numbers involved, it’s surely inevitable that the SNP bandwagon will attract all manner of ‘enterprising’ sorts who see the chance to turn a fast buck. That’s fair enough, but I hope the ‘new’ SNP hierarchy doesn’t fall into the trap of believing that a one-man-band – no matter how popular he may be – can do everything.
I am very biased, but there are others on this site who belong to parties and/or groups outwith the SNP who represent significant (relatively important, in ‘cultural’ terms) sectors of Scottish society, and many of them simply will not tolerate the marginalisation many of us experienced during the indy campaign.
If the National is to be successful long-term (not just next week) then, IMO, it will have to accommodate voices from the SSP, WFI, Greens, LFI, RIC etc, and not just in terms of objective ‘coverage’ as measured by column inches – it will have to ensure that spokesfolk for these parties and groups become integral to a completely new and honest discourse. (It cannot be another ‘Yes’ newspaper – that publication was a SNP production, and many of us in other ‘Yes’ groups had to repeatedly bite our tongues over that deception, hoping that the greater cause would prevail.)
For example – I would like to see the National invite someone like Sandra Webster or Colin Fox to be a regular columnist. It would be so refreshing to see a truly ‘socialist’ voice being aired without being introduced/framed as some token ‘Leftie’.
Likewise, I would be happy to see Alan Cochrane’s thoughts in the National, but only if he’s contributing them from conviction, not being paid a penny, and agrees to the same word-count of responses being published the following day.
Ach, I’m finding it difficult to articulate what I’m thinking, but I guess you’ll probably know what I’m on about.
(Hoots, friend! Sounds like I missed a good night!)
@ Lochside – so exactly how stupid do you want to be? Or shall we agree to be chums?
Well that is the first edition of The National off to the presses folks … hope you enjoy it tomorrow.
Well that is the first edition of The National off to the presses folks … hope you enjoy it tomorrow.
Lochside sweetest – this may appear my other comment may not, my frivolous silly innuendos are light-hearted and ridiculous they are stupid, and in no way intended to cause affront – the mother of JM and her other children should not be a brunt. End of.
@ ronnie anderson
Cheers????
Sorry Lochside – realised I was impolite a few comments back xx
Re the National I will buy it and hope for the best.
Ian B
Re YT vid
Can’t quite hear my critique of Murphy’s voting record on Scottish affairs, his expenses and support for renewal of Trident. Think I can hear one of my well placed ‘Boos’ though 🙂
As for the three stooges I have no comment. What a complete irrelevance they are becoming. Okay one little comment.
https://twitter.com/newsundayherald/status/536660424650141697/photo/1
Hope this is a link to the new paper’s front page.
@meself, above –
From the first front page of the National, as it appears on WOS Twitter feed, it seems that the SSP’s Carolyn Leckie has a column?
Yaaaaz!
Top drawer stuff.
I subscribed to The National on my iPad. Only now do I find a message saying that I need Flash player, which is not available for the iPad. FAQ contains the information:
“If you are seeing that this message whilst trying to view the publication on a mobile device such as a tablet or phone, then the publication has not been set up to work on a mobile device.”
Not a good start!
@ Ian Brotherhood at 11.08
Women for Indy have already been commissioned to write articles for the first week of the National, so I am hopeful that your suggestions will be adopted.
@ian
Have you seen the front page of tomorrow’s edition? https://twitter.com/ScotNational
Features Carolyn Leckie – dunno if she’s in your good guys list or not, but at least they are taking voices from the left.
And it’s no damned use sitting around moaning. If you want your party’s voice heard there – go and write for them. It’s a great opportunity & they will be desperate for decent, regular copy. I certainly intend to contribute the right wing anarchist’s view of independence 🙂 I doubt they’ll have me though…just a tad too eccentric
@kininvie –
Brilliant.
Eccentric? You? Perish the thought mister – a bit more right-wing anarchism is what we all need right now, if for no other reason than to expose Milifud, Camerarse and Forage (let’s not even mention Clegg) for the vacillating husks that they surely are.
@kininvie
Eccentric? You’ll be in good company then 🙂
Watching paper reviews on Sky News. They are now saying that the UK spying agencies want to access our phone call records and our internet history. All in the name of defeating terrorism. BUUUUULLLSSHHIIITTTT!!!!
You would be as well just taking the front door off your house now.
A pro-indy newspaper declaring a front page sidebar announcing, ‘Brown accused of abandoning the Vow’ is assured of my purchase.
But it had better be an intelligent read, not a pared down, dumbed down, keep it simple and educate the plebs tabloid.
I hope The National fulfills its vow…
Dear Mr Murphy,
By the same reasoning, does that mean that not all No voters voted for the Union?
Sorry Rev , on first reading I thought the The JM / Mam line was a bit NAF ( slight understatement)
It’s hardly suitable language for a “man of the cloth.”
As I read the posts tho’ I was thinking like Brian Doonthetoon .
A few months ago , You certainly hit the right buttons for media effect .
That said I’m not convinced it’ is or was a good idea .
Exposing the truth via statements of fact is what makes your work so addictive .
I’m only passing my opinion.
You are , without question , entitled to write as you see fit .
On topic .
Those 3 numbskulls made Nick Clegg acceptable .
What are they thinking about , certainly not about getting elected . Maybe the result has already been decided and they are just going thro’ the motions until Dec .
“Not all Yes voters wanted independence” WHAT THE HELL?!?!?!
By definition THEY DID! JM has his head up his arse!
@Democracy Reborn and others upthread –
Kin right.
Murphy’s arse is out the windae, with a big flowery hat on it.
When was the last time a ‘real’ Labour supporter voted for a representative who genuinely stood for the values that the voter believed in?
When did the ‘Labour Party’ most recently represent the working classes? Seriously. Pre-Blair? Pre-Smith? Pre-Kinnock?
FFS, how far back do we have to go?
Before heading off to the leaba, I’m making a point of phoning BBC complaints re the last 24 hours of uncritical coverage on the radio re Crash Gordon “going out on a high note, having rescued the referendum campaign” – pointing out that he is actually resigning in disgrace having promised Scotland Home Rule and the nearest thing to a federal state and that the BBC has once again delivered a better-together spin without any reference to the actual facts on the ground. 03700100222 (I assume it was the same on the BBC, but since I don’t take live TV anymore I dont know)
I have no doupt that the Rev did,nt make a unguarded comment re Murphy,s Mum,just be patient all will come out in the wash.
test again
caz-m – where were you on Friday evening?
You missed the whole CH scenario, including the lamp post excitement, caused by Paula Rose, stroking those upright posts.
@Ian Brotherhood
Ian,
“When did the ‘Labour Party’ most recently represent the working classes?”
I’d give the benefit of the doubt & say Kinnock in 1987 (just). By ’92 they had well & truly moved onto the Thatcherite agenda. If you watch interviews with Kinnock & other leading figures from the period, they tacitly admit that (although couched in language such as ‘the Tories had gone too far for us to afford to undo everything they’d done’). By ’97, & Blair/Brown, it was all over. The courting of Middle England & the SE of England voters trumped everything. Still couple though with sound bites of ‘social justice’. Some things never change….
Here’s another one for ‘Boney’ Jim Murphy and his SLab buddies – come May 7th, most of them will be embarking on the biggest fucking ‘holiday’ they’ve ever had.
Boney M, ‘Hooray! It’s A Holiday!’
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjq0rPzv6uY
I think it’s quite simple.
At some point in the past, the Labour Party decided to forget its very reason for existence, ie, the voice of ‘the working man’, expressed through electoral support from the ‘working class’.
They forgot WHY they actually existed, and treated their erstwhile support with contempt. And what has happened is that the support, in Scotland, that Labour depended on, has deserted them, for parties that allege to support their aspirations, whether they be SNP, Green, SSP or Solidarity.
As others have typed, we do, indeed, live in interesting times.
Neil Findlay would be the leader who just waits and sees what happens.
“All 50,000 online copies of the 5day trial for the National appear to have gone already!!!!
I wonder what size of print run they did for Monday?”
I’m suspicious about the big push for digital subscribers for the new paper.
As much as I want it to succeed, the independence cause will get the most benefit from people buying REAL copies from shops.
There are already plenty of good pro-indy sites online.
The benefits of a newspaper come from getting a pro-Scottish viewpoint out there to the general public.. with front page headlines in supermarkets, copies left in coffee shops, waiting rooms, trains etc
Every electronic copy sold means less demand for hard copies.
What we don’t want to be seeing in a few months is an announcement about the print edition ending due to lack of demand, and The National going online only..
Yes voters are people who didn’t vote no,big difference.These don’t even realise they missed the chance to redistribute wealth and sort out inequality and set budgets and taxes et
They are fighting and speculating over the crumbs from our squandered resources,so I’m not falling for this friendly chat to get all the attention back on Labour.
So far as I know there’s no limit on the number of online subscriptions – why would there be? The 50,000 number is the number of paper copies being printed.
They closed the text subscription facility and moved it on to a web page, that’s all. I agree that the important thing is the paper sales. There’s plenty online journalism but the people who read that are Yes already. It’s print circulation that’s important, to keep it in the shops so that undecided people might pick it up on spec.
Hi ‘Onwards’.
I agree. What will make the difference is what peeps are reading during their morning teabreak at work, or whatever.
It’s gonna be the Daily Retard, The Sin, The Expresso, the Starry Starry Night, or the National. Or, mind you, there’s always The Sport, for meaningful political examination.
We need the National, this week, to be lying about, for picking up, by peeps who aren’t indoctrinated.
For the umpteenth time, there is NO such entity as ‘The Scottish Labour Party’.
To be frank, I think that IS his reasoning.
Devil’s Advocate: I think – think – Jim’s trying to say that some Yes voters *actually* wanted Federalism/Devomax, but knew it wasn’t on the table, and decided to take the plunge into independence.
The problem is, as you say, the reverse is just as likely to be the case: if some Yes voters didn’t want independence but still voted for it because it seemed the best choice, then logically, some No voters didn’t want to stay in the UK, but still voted for it because it seemed like the best choice.
Just how many people have you come across who’ve said something along the lines of “I want to vote Yes, but I just don’t think we can do it/afford it/manage on our own”? I’d say a significant proportion of the No vote were people who would actually like to vote Yes, but didn’t believe it.
That, I think, is the most stupid thing about Jim Murphy’s statement – that he must acknowledge some No voters didn’t want to stay in the UK, and we know exactly why that was.
I read in one poll that 73% of voters over 65 and 57% of those between 55 and 65 voted ‘No’.
Now many ‘more mature’ citizens are now using the internet and I’d love to be sending links to various pro-independent web sites to older family and friends to help them understand issues not addressed in the MSM. Too often, however, there’s subject matter that I don’t think would win them over to the independence cause.
I’m not a narrow minded, prissy or easily shocked but I am certain that to gain the utmost trust and belief in the case for an independent, sovereign Scotland, those that advocate it should at least present themselves as the ‘good guys‘. They shouldn’t cast dispersion on their opponents sexual habits especially when they are totally fictitious (Jim Murphy here). Do they honestly think the use of four lettered words (no matter how harmless they may think they are) are adding anything positive to their argument?
Quite a few other independent clips on YouTube, and other ‘indy’ sites use lyrics more suitable to rugby clubs than winning over strangers in political debate. Frequent references to certain bodily orifices is not really a vote winner.
I honestly don’t mind what language anyone uses among their own friends but rightly or wrongly certain words and phrases are considered within our cultures aggressively rude and insulting and don‘t show the user up as a convincing persuader on any subject
I ask those that think rudeness and (what many would consider) profane language ask themselves this:
If you were a sales person or politician trying to get a person to buy your product, service or vote for you; would you use any words that you feel might seem inappropriate to that person and put them off you?
A good salesperson never tries to get their message across or sell their product by course language or even continually harping on about how bad their competitors and their products are. Better mention a rival’s name infrequently and win your potential customers by good behaviour and good manners.
People don’t like politicians generally and spin doctors like John McTernan with their nasty snide remarks and spiteful attacks are one of the reasons why. They actually gain sympathy for their opponents.
Here’s a headline from Oz: ‘Julia Gillard’s (ex-Labour Party Leader and ex-Australian PM) former communications director John McTernan has done more damage than good to the Australian Labour Party.”
Some may scoff at my apparent prudish stance but having been a firm and ardent independence supporter for 58 years (71 in a couple of months) I hate to think we could lose valuable new members by impolite or discourteous behaviour., when there is no need for it and offers not one positive gain.
Like throwing eggs it actually is counterproductive. It aids the other side.
Like throwing eggs it actually is counterproductive.
Too sensitive by half and over-wrought.
He makes a very good point. I just don’t see how it’s possible to police the comments given the scatological tendencies of many of the posters here. Stu can tell people not to do it till he’s blue in the face, but they don’t pay the slightest bit of attention.
Some people will just laugh it off but we have to recognise that some find it genuinely offensive.
One of the biggest lies to the Scottish peple that keeps gonig unchallenged is simply this.
Giving Holyrood the task of collecting the income tax for Westminster is more responsibility and accountability it is not extra power.
Square Haggis says
“I heard mention somewhere this week that he’s behind a proposed new law to prevent anyone from doing just that.
Something along the lines of an anti bawling at public officials law, I jest you not.”
Aww poor wee sowel,
was he upset at us unwashed paupers shouting at him?
Aa couldnae hear him complaining since he was shouting two feet from me through a magaphone, but I take it that’s alright since he’s been elected to shout at me?
Lochside says
“good coming from Wings very own Mrs Slocum.”
Let me tell you a story, I went to the (debacle) Murphy rant in Kirkcaldy, and I stood two feet from Murphy sans Wings/yes badges, and his p/a when she realised I was a yesser whispered it to Murphy and he “bawls” into his megaphone “its ok to be a nationalist, you shouldn’t be ashamed of being a nationalist straight at me, this was about 5 minutes before the omelette challenge, so this “MP’s are people too” pish doesn’t wash with me.
Theres been too much turning the other cheek and the uninformed stand around and say ,”well they didn’t refute it so it must be true”
He deliberately uses the media to his advantage while he goads people beyond any reasonable persons tolerance, I nearly had to hold my wife off him because of his (attempted) humiliation of me! she btw was assaulted by his same P/A for no other reason than she was standing in her line of sight of the great smugurph
the woman hit her in the hand with her brolly drawing blood,
Trust me when I say this,
when Murphy came to Kirkcalday he and his entourage had every intention of stirring up trouble to justify his SNP bad rants and allow him to suspend his 100 towns to have a rant in the newspapers about abusive nats.(there’s a lot more I could tell that went on that day)
There is nothing that can be said about Smugurph that is too extreme,
You just have to look at the faux indignation of Rev Stu’s retaliation against Alex Johnston when he attacked two innocent people for giving money to the “wrong side”,
The behaviour of the press lined up like the pre dawn artillery bombardment at El alamien was absolutely sickening, and it left a great man/site out of the picture pre referendum, (which I personally thought was completely craven of the SNP)
In spite of that Stu went onto to create the single most important piece of work in the ENTIRE campaign,I refer of course to THE WEE BLUE BOOK,
I’ve been bending back and forth between retaining the moral high ground and getting down into the gutter with those creatures and taking them on in their own (comfortable) environment and look where retaining the moral high ground got us, EXACTLY NOWHERE!
The trouble is they appeal to mans baser nature,
kind of like the the crowds in the Colosseum baying for Christians blood, while watching slaves being eaten by lions and so while your average “Daily Record” reader watches one of us getting eaten alive, that’s all they see, “well that’s one less nationalist nutter”
We need to have at them,
not let them settle,
Use “The National” for all its worth,
finally we can fight back and we have a voice to project our battle cry,
Alex Salmond at the Hydro talked about the Scottish kid (boxer) at the commonwealth games who every time he was pushed back onto the ropes he came out twice as ferocious and ended up winning against all the odds when the pundits gave him zero chance against his opponent.
So in other words ease up on Mrs Slocu—, er Paula Rose Lochside, there are better targets out there rather than having a go at our own!
Sinky says
“Given the state of the print media throughout the UK I am sure that the Paper Reviews on TV this evening and BBC “National” News bulletins will mention the emergence of a new newspaper to-morrow.”
It will also be the first paper the BBC review every morning–without fail,
And we’ll wake up tomorrow and David Cameron will own up and admit WE DID win the referendum
They’re coming to take me away ha ha,
they’re coming to take me away he he.
Rod Robertson says
“Giving Holyrood the task of collecting the income tax for Westminster is more responsibility and accountability it is not extra power.”
Exactly!
Muttley 79
No I wasn’t saying I don’t believe the quote-I heard Sandra White talk about indyref2 in 2017 in her opening comments at RIC conference (during Strategising Mass Forum 1)& it struck me that no one from SNP has so far put a date on when it might be.
I was actually referring to the bit about someone close to the FM & their words. Can you honestly imagine SNP rep saying something like that, I can’t. They are too professional for that. A member- yes,possibly but not realising they may be quoted.
The last thing anyone at SNP would want is to give MSM ammunition to suggest that there’s discord in the party
Kiwimike says
“I’m not a narrow minded, prissy or easily shocked but I am certain that to gain the utmost trust and belief in the case for an independent, sovereign Scotland, those that advocate it should at least present themselves as the ‘good guys‘. They shouldn’t cast dispersion on their opponents sexual habits especially when they are totally fictitious (Jim Murphy here). Do they honestly think the use of four lettered words (no matter how harmless they may think they are) are adding anything positive to their argument?”
So lets not talk about a suspected pedophile ring right at the heart of the Thatcher government in case we upset the matrons of Corstorphine?
Nothing we can say could ever match the depths of depravity of the creatures that rule in our name, lets be very clear about that!
The approach taken during by the YES campaign was and remains the correct one.
Stick to facts and have logical arguements. People came over because of this and the are remaining on the side of independence because of this approach.
If we get down in the gutter with Labour then people will switch off once again – “they are all the same”
No one wins the debate, people switch off from politics and Labour benefits from the low polling.
Scotland has changed because people are engaged. People are engaged because they are becoming aware of the facts which highlights the lies of Labour Politicians past and present.
Rev
Have you seen article from Darling in FT on devolving income tax? Sorry don’t know how to create a link to a tweet. Was sent by Kevin Pringle during the night.
No National in Kingsway Tesco Dundee. 🙁
THE NATIONAL – FIRST EDITION
At 7am no ‘The National’s at either Morrisons or Tesco – neither had even heard of the new paper.
2 newsagents later and success!
32 Pages in which most of the first half is IndyScot stuff and the rest is all the usual with sport at the rear.
So far so good, we’re off and running.
Well done The National and the editor, Richard Walker
That’s bought my copy of The national. From a convenience store as Tesco had never heard of it and didn’t have any. What a surprise.
john king says
“So lets not talk about a suspected pedophile ring right at the heart of the Thatcher government in case we upset the matrons of Corstorphine?”
How can you possibly misconstrue my pointing out that perhaps constant and unnecessary use of sexual innuendo and (what many consider) vulgarity aimed at one’s rivals may be detrimental to the independent cause, with criminal activity against children?
I maybe wrong but I’m sure the use of four letter words doesn’t encourage new supporters and in fact may put people, especially elderly people, off. If one is trying to win others to a cause, would it not be better to discuss and ‘educate’ in a civilised manner and not risk giving offence.
Back to its cosy comfort zone.
‘National’ television news has almost reverted to 90% London events, the rest a cross between international and ‘major’ in the UK.
UK Government now on fear campaign to loosen up Internet providers so they willingly name internet users who ‘might’ be of a terrorist inclination.
not risk giving offence.
Have a study of Hogarth’s cartoons.
manandboy 7:40am
THE NATIONAL -FIRST EDITION
Similar experience in Perth Tesco Superstore in Crieff Road. They suggested it was something to do with the distributor JMenzies, but didn’t know. They said other customers had already been in looking for it! I tasked Tesco customer services with finding out what the problem was and I told them I will return later for an answer.
Sourced my copy at RS McColl in Letham, (aka SNP central in Perth). They had been allocated only FOUR copies, but received eight. They had two left after my purchase.
@yesindyref2
Yep, had the same experience myself this morning. Tesco deaf, dumb and blind to its existence. Will be heading out later to track one down. Will be interesting to see if any of the stores stocked copies. Tesco, Asda, Morrisons etc
I am finding it increasingly difficult to tell the difference between what Jim Murphy ACTUALLY says and your humourous, but ridiculous, additions. How can this man be taken seriously??
Rod Robertson says:
“Giving Holyrood the task of collecting the income tax for Westminster is more responsibility and accountability it is not extra power.”
Agreed. Also, if a parliament has to draw its finances from a narrow set of taxes, it’s an unstable situation. A wide set of taxes is essential.
And, this whole accountability thing. Accountable to whom? Holyrood IS accountable to the Scottish people, we can vote governments in or out. I feel devolving income tax is more about making Holyrood appear accountable in the eyes of English voters.
Woo Hoo!
We’ve managed to get TWO copies of our new DAILY newspaper, one for us and one for a friend. 😉
Only three copies sent to each of the newsagents in Annan. What a struggle but we managed it. PHEW! 😛
I’m sure I read on my Twitter feed yesterday Morrisons , Sainsbury and some others are not bothering to handle ” The National ”
Some headquartered on the other side o Hadrians Wall are slow on the uptake , in more ways than the obvious !
Indy Newsagents sound like the best bet .
Pity YES shops were not involved too . ( no slight on Indy Newsstands as I appreciate business is still tough )
Happy Reading everyone.
Wav, they even have a squib on Valerie Trierweiler (former Hollande’s GF)’s sulfurous book. They had some space to fill in, apparently. 🙂
Otherwise, I find it rather good. It’s especially nice they claim that this won’t be the SNP’s daily. They have to keep their own line, and the article on the trompe-l’œil rise of wages in real terms is very meaningful.
Good work up to that point. I wonder if they will release the first selling figures tomorrow.
Local grocer, newsagent and convenience store had the National at eye level directly opposite the entrance making it impossible to miss them as you entered, says they are flying out the door!
Coffee and newspaper, the first daily in years, speak soon!
Well done small local newsagents!
Wonder if it will make an appearance on Paper review sections of popular news programmes on the TV, should give them some hiccups before bedtime A!
Evil Eleanor (Bradford) of BBC Scotland fame, has been let out of her cage for the day to have another attempted dig at the Scottish NHS.
This time it’s the release of a report into the C-Diff infection that killed patients in the Vale of Leven Hospital in 2007.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-30150343
What you won’t see in Bradford’s report is any mention of the part Scottish Labour played in it.
It was because of the lack of funding from Scottish Labour/Lib/Dems and the threat of closure to the Vale of Leven going back ten years before 2007 that led to the outbreak. But in her usual anti-SNP mode, Bradford is trying to put this out as if it was the fault of the current Scottish government.
I do hope one the topics that the “National” tackles is BBC Scotland bias. It would go a long way to letting the wider public see the one-sided, anti-Scottish government reporting that comes out of Pacific Quay.
Rod Robertson says:
24 November, 2014 at 6:13 am
One of the biggest lies to the Scottish peple that keeps gonig unchallenged is simply this.
Giving Holyrood the task of collecting the income tax for Westminster is more responsibility and accountability it is not extra power.
Ah, but they already call it “tax raising powers”.
@Kiwimike
I said much the same thing before about poor use of language and personal insult on Wings. People thought my comment detracted from the the raw energy of the conversation, but I agree with you. To win the hearts and minds of the worried NO over 55’s, there has to be a modicum of decorum. We didn’t all grow up in Corstorphine either and neither are we all matrons. I spent 15 years in the British Army, so I’m quite used to a wee sweary, but it comes over to many people, especially the older generation, as a lack of intelligence, rudeness or down right radical and lets face it, indy supporters are no longer the fringe minority, that people of other political beliefs are labelling the loony Braveheart element. People want to believe, they want to see sensible and irrefutable arguments rather than bottom draw, knee jerk negativity.
Re copies of the National, got mine in a coop. So anyone struggling to find one in the Southside of Glasgow, opposite Battlefield Rest has copies.
Told by Sainsbury’s this morning that John Menzies (supplier of newspapers) did not inform them that the National was coming out today and as it is not on their system they have copies but cannot sell them.
Paranoid it may be but it seems just a little too convienient
I’m in Inverness this morning .
Co-op have “The National ”
I would assume other Co-ops would have them .
I’ll get mine from my Local newsagent tho’
Support your Local Sherrif etc
Good news – The National was sold out at centrla station and surrounding 6 newsagents at 8.30 this morning lots of other rags left on stands !
If you are in a good mood this morning and want to remain so please stay away from Call Louis with an E.
National request
Anyone who manages to buy a hard copy of the National this week – well done, but please be sure to recycle after use – leave it on a bus, train, in a cafe, or better still, give it to an old relative. We need to spread it wide and reach the soft NOs and members of the Daily Record fan club.
O/T Sorry for the typo
Good news – The National was sold out at Glasgow Central station and surrounding 6 newsagents at 8.30 this morning lots of other rags left on stands !
(Sorry; YES I did ask staff – they had sold out)
Having a single Scottish daily newspaper in favour of independence is actually an enormous commercial advantage. One market share, big and growing, as opposed to a divided, dwindling unionist market shared out by so many English-based rags.
I’ve just had a wee thought outside the box Lanarkist … I’ve tweeted BBC and SKY to ask if they will be reviewing The National in tonight’s editions of their paper reviews. Don’t worry though I’m not holding my breath expecting any reasonable reply from either place. 😛
NORWAY’S HISTORY IS OUR HINDSIGHT FOR THE FUTURE.
With hugely important elections due in the UK over the next few years, who wouldn’t avail themselves of the benefit of all the hindsight to be gained over these 3 years,
if it were possible to know it now.
You might think that’s a silly idea, not because it is without merit but rather because it is not possible.
It’s a bit like thinking about what you would do with £100million if you won the Lottery. How many people in the UK have NOT said the words ‘if I won the Lottery’?
Well, with N Sea oil, Scotland DID win the Lottery but England kept the ticket and has been living off OUR winnings ever since.
More silly ideas:
If it were possible to offer everyone in the UK not just 3 years, but 50 years, of hindsight – from 2014 to 2064, would anyone refuse such a source of knowledge and experience – not to mention 50 years worth of ‘being wise after the event’.
Every politician and businessman in the land would jump at the chance of having such ‘insider information’.
Knowing the future – let me at it!
Fanciful to say the least.
Now for the connection.
Norway became independent of Sweden in 1905. They found oil in the North Sea in 1970, and the rest is history – their history.
But their history of the past 50 oil rich years is OUR HINDSIGHT for our next 50 years.
What has happened to Norway, WILL happen to Scotland –
but only with independence.
There is one little difference however. Scotland has far more oil than the Norwegians. Scotland would be far richer than Norway.
Meanwhile, Westminster continues to brainwash Scotland with its lies about our future. The whole country now believes that the future is AUSTERITY lasting decades.
UK debt is so bad, thanks to London’s gambling bankers; cuts are necessary for the foreseeable future we are told, and so poverty is inevitable for everyone.(except the rich and politicians.)
Dear readers, we in Scotland have seen our future written in the history of Norway since 1970. This is not silly or fanciful – it is true! And yet we continue to look to London and listen to Westminster Tory/Labour Unionist LIES.
Check your compass. I bet it’s pointing South.
Austerity lies south.
Prosperity lies EAST.
Look east, to Norway; see our future in Norway’s past. Learn the TRUTH, for the Norwegians are not lying to us as the English do.
Reset your compass.
And look to the future with sure confidence for we can already see it – thanks to the hindsight which is found in Norway’s history.
Join an Independence party NOW.
Before another 40 years of prosperity slips away.
Managed to get the last copy of the National in the fourth (and last newsagent/deli) on the way to the office.
Quite slim at 32 pages on lightweight paper but with only about 2 pages of adverts I’m guessing it has as much news as any other paper.
It will be my read on the way home on the train so I will comment tonight
Re The National
The front page looks good
With 1.6million potential readers, it looks like a winner.
Can’t find any copies in Dumfries, local newsagent sold out hours ago. Just phoned circulation and they said that Tesco and Spar have refused to stock it, so if you’re looking for copies in these shops you’ll be disappointed.
When I bought the National, newsagent muttered, I’m surprised. In the dark past I bought the Times and Guardian at the wknd.
I bought two, friends in Germany are very interested to see it.
@Tackety Beets
I got one in Sainsbury’s so guessing your twitter feed is speaking pish.
galamcennalath says:
24 November, 2014 at 8:39 am
Rod Robertson says:
“Giving Holyrood the task of collecting the income tax for Westminster is more responsibility and accountability it is not extra power.”
Agreed. Also, if a parliament has to draw its finances from a narrow set of taxes, it’s an unstable situation. A wide set of taxes is essential.
And, this whole accountability thing. Accountable to whom? Holyrood IS accountable to the Scottish people, we can vote governments in or out. I feel devolving income tax is more about making Holyrood appear accountable in the eyes of English voters.
I would take it further.
It is essential for Scotland to raise it’s own taxes, all of it’s taxes and adjust them up or down as necessary. We do not need to be told what we can or can’t do.
The Referendum should have been about Independence Yes or No, a simple? question. The PM refused the inclusion or the devomax alternative, but better together used this as a means of producing the VOW and thus casting doubt in a majority of voter’s minds.
As to when the next indyref should be, I also think that when the question of how it can happen (inculding currency, bank of last resort, relationship with EU, etc) is answered satisfactorily, if it is the will of the Scottish poeple, by the majority voting for pro Indy parties in 2015 and 2016.
As to if the next time is the last time, I think this is far too defeatist. As long as MSM and BBC do not express the views of both sides, for and against, evenly and without bias, there is a reason to repeat and rinse ad infinitum. If the playing field is even, then the views of the Scottish people should be respected, for a generation. Until then, there should and needs to be a referendum every time a pro independence government is returned to Hollyrood.
The precedent is taken from the normal election process. If a conservative, or labour party fails to get elected, it does not mean that they cannot try again at the next election. Why so there be a limit on independence when it is the will of the people of Scotland shown by their choice of elected government? If Independence is the first and foremost goal of a newly elected govermnent in Scotland, they would be remiss and indeed no longer trustworthy, if they failed to pose the independence question to the Scottish electorate once they are elected.
I also thik that if further down the line, once independence is a reality and if several governments from both sides of the political spectrum have not been able to make it work, which I doubt very strongly will be the case, then the goverment could ask the people if they should form another union, not necessarily with England, possibly a Celtic Union with Ireland (Republic and or Northern) and Wales. Why not? Countries have made alliances with other countries throughout history. This forever nonsense is English scaremongering.
NATO is also not a purely nuclear alliance, so the question of whether we could stay part of it without Trident is irrelevent. Germany, the biggest European nation is a member of NATO and does not have any of their own WMDs and neither do many of the smaller nations that make up the alliance. The nuclear weapons question is fraught with moral and financial difficulties and is another irrelevant red herring used by the Establishment to cast doubt in voter’s minds.
Independence is just that. The ability to choose for ourselves what and how we do things and apart from Scottish and International Law, there is nothing to stop us doing anything we like for the good of the nation if that what the majority wants.
McBoxheid says:
“To win the hearts and minds of the worried NO over 55’s, there has to be a modicum of decorum.”
Exactly! We are not advocating censorship but suggesting perhaps to win greater support we must think of how the wider public view online comments. Don’t give the BT campaigners the argument that the ‘Cybernats’ are rude, vulgar and boorish. Let them be the nasty ones. Sign off time from NZ.
How does one get an online subscription the The National. Have they a website?
@kiwimike
http://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/subscribe.aspx?source=4&eid=e46c8b3a-57a1-44e2-8155-6c9c3d4b4f90
I just bought my first National at the local garage. I did get a bit of a fright when I saw that it was by far physically the largest pile of papers, probably about ten to twelve.
I asked the man at the counter if they had sold many, and then someone behind me said with a big smile on his face, this is the first time today. I got the feeling that the pile of papers had just been recently put on the shelf.
Fingers crossed they all sell out.
Received my on-line edition and saved as pdf file.
Looks good. Using technology to best advantage. I am in my 70th decade now. A war baby who is YES but a free thinker too. No party card!
O/T. My view is that there shall be as many referenda as it takes!
Co-Op in the Gorbals still got a good few copies of The National.
(and the wee security guard who’s dad hung about with a No Thanks t-shirt on all the time in the shop isn’t on so it’s not been tucked away out of site)
The National is looking pretty good.
Having skimmed several major papers looking for a mention of the Tunisian presidential election without sucess, I was very pleased to see a report there.
Brian Powell says:
24 November, 2014 at 9:47 am
I bought two, friends in Germany are very interested to see it.
I have been trying to get the E-version, but I can’t find the link. The ex-forces community over here (Germany) is quite large and some of us are a wee bit isolated, so if anyone can share the link so that myself and others can get a copy it would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/nov/23/gordon-brown-quit-career-near-greatness-flaws-analysis
Red Tory rancid hypocrite Graun says Brown is like David Livingstone or, We come to mock you Jocks, not to sell our creepy red Tory garbage in our Scotland region….
“Busy with his global role, pursuing his goals like a latter-day David Livingstone (a childhood hero in his father’s manse) , Brown may yet do more useful work. Voters can and should regret his going, but modern politicians do not hang about to guide their successors: at 54, William Hague is off too.”
What ever happened to Graun buffoons vote LibDem, kick out most UNpopular PM ever?
Did Crash actually state anything truthfully when he slammed into Scotland with his vote NO or shock and awe BBC version of Project Fear, terrorising pensioners and transplant hopefuls etc He said AlicSamin only had £4bn of non Scots oil money to pay for £40bn public sector, he said nationalists have taken over the streets of Scotland and he will take them back and while Eggs Murphy 100 town road tour had absolutely nonone in his audience to hear his Project Fearing it either. But it’s nice to hear these three con artists still peddling their Crash Gordon style grot. Is there even such a thing as an honest decent teamGB establishment ligger.
Getting out and about at last after been confined to the house for a while. Went solo this morning on the hunt for new paper.
Got the National at my 4th attempt as they had been all sold out in the local shops. In Asda. Two left on the shelf. Another man had same experience but happy to get one he said.
My usual newsagent says they only took twelve to see how it goes but could have sold many more.
@McBoxheid
http://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/subscribe.aspx?source=4&eid=e46c8b3a-57a1-44e2-8155-6c9c3d4b4f90
@call me dave
Glad to hear you are feeling up to getting out and about and a fine day to pick up the National
Anyone got an ebay account handy?
Sticking a copy of the National on there at this early stage could be beneficial not only to promoting the paper but also to getting it out to the wider world.
I know a guy in Australia who has already stated he would pay good money for a first print edition.
Even if the pilot fails to hit it’s sales target the collectability aspect of the “idea” would push it forward in itself.
First print editions are like gold dust as is using your marketing skills to absolute effect.
Think gadgets, why do they take off?
Marketing.
Raised awareness pushes the curiosity buttons.
Keep pushing.
People want it, everyone’s talking about it, must have etc.
THEN you get the MSM chasing the story and you’re off.
Just throwing ideas.
None in Morrisons EK or Shawlands , asked why? no answer. Glad to see freedom of speech is still being stiffled by the big supermarkets!
Better still, if someone were to contact the editor and ask for a signed copy, now that could be useful 😉
@ Robert Kerr.
God Robert, 70th Decade? you’re even older than I am!
🙂
Dusting off the bus pass though to go through to YES city for this.
http://www.indyscot.info/details.php?ref=96
@ call me dave
Good to hear you’re out and about. 🙂
McBoxheid, I think this link let’s you subscribe to the E version of the National.
http://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/subscribe.aspx?source=4&eid=e46c8b3a-57a1-44e2-8155-6c9c3d4b4f90
.
Got The National this morning in wee newsagents at the bus stop on Brandon Parade in Motherwell, there were two other folk in front of me in queue with the same paper and only about 5 or 6 left (not sure how many there were to begin with mind)
Crazy thinking but imagine one signed copy in the world goes up on a 3 day listing and reaches crazy prices, all being bid up by 1.6 million avid Scots, who knows how high it could go but the more that push it the more chance we have of making our voices heard, creating a phenomena in the process is NOT beyond us.
C’mon Scotland! We can do this 😉
McBoxheid says:
“The Referendum should have been about Independence Yes or No, a simple? question. The PM refused the inclusion or the devomax alternative, but better together used this as a means of producing the VOW and thus casting doubt in a majority of voter’s minds.”
Yes. I don’t think enough has and is being made of this. Cameron began by making it clear the referendum was about status quo versus independence and discussions about more powers would come later.
The stronger the Yes vote appeared, the more he offered. (And make no mistake, the UK government was pulling all strings). From 8th Sept onwards the vote had become DevoMax versus Independence. The vote which took place was a completely different beast from that envisaged only weeks earlier. Cameron completely moved the goal posts in the closing stages of the campaign.
It annoys me hugely that those actions were glossed over immediately after the vote.
IMO, starting on the 19th, YesScotland should have made acceptance of the No win conditional on delivery of DevoMax.
With the surge in support, the SNP have moved to a position of expectation of delivery with veiled threats for non delivery. That is a weaker position than would have been the case had acceptance of the result been conditional.
@cearc
Seconded. I was pleased with the international section. There was a danger it was going to go all parochial and inward looking, not what we need at all. I’m cautiously optimistic about it. Will buy hard copy this week and consider a digital subscription after that. I had a look and it doesn’t look like a digital subscription is crossed with the Herald. It is annoying to have to subscribe to the unionist Herald to get the Yes HoS online so good to see they got that bit right. Now if they can delink the HoS and maybe attach it online to The National . . .
The National. Good first effort if predictably for a new start, uncontroversial and emphasising non-SNP pro indu groups.
Needs a good crossword.
Martin Wood 9:16am
The National -“Sainsbury not on their system they have copies but cannot sell them”
We can put the Philae lander on a comet millions of miles away after a 10 year mission, but Sainsbury cannot override a till for a sale, AYE right. I bought my copy at a RS McColl and the manager said that they had to manually enter the sale into their till. So, it can be done.
Bought my National. Looks good from a politics standpoint, obviously.
It has four pages of sport, two of which are footy. Is that enough to attract Record and Sun readers, I wonder?
Let’s face it, I know the publisher is trying to corner a niche pro-Yes market and make money. However, if the National is to have any influence on events it needs to be read by older No voters too!
The Guardian Online has an article on the Tunisian elections but you have to drill down into the Africa subsection of World news to find it.
My country has sucked the good years from my bones and rewarded me with a brittle poverty in retirement.
I paid for Bishops and Lords I didn’t elect and illegal wars that I didn’t support. I fired expensive missiles at foreign families in a rich man’s oil war.
I paid for duck moats for dick wads to control me, and bonuses for Bankers to break the fabric of our financial system. I bailed banks that were resold at a loss to me.
I watched our political system lord over decades of financial and cultural incompetence. A system not fit for the purposes and needs of a modern world, hampered by ancient tradition, debilitated by class stricture and structure. A system choked by nationalistic pomp and circumstance, and run by an ossified establishment. It’s a heavy burden for an ordinary man.
As I struggled to secure a roof and education for my sons, and lived honestly and frugally through each economic crisis, I watched the rich become richer and the poor eke an existence in a corrupt democracy of cash for questions, cronyism, expense scandals, and skimming politicians.
They sold my railways, energy companies, water and hospitals and I paid tax to private companies to keep them running.
All the money I generated over the decades, my personal GDP, was wasted in government ineptitude and inefficiency.
My sons left for London. I don’t blame them, I blame the system. A lifetime of yoke and boot. A lifetime of housing, heating, eating and education, necessities costed like luxuries. Democratic rights sold as privilege.
And through these decades I have had the misfortune to suffer the false promises and prophecies of Scottish Labour. The party that adds insult to injury.
I think I knew more about Labour policy before any of them spoke. Labour is welcome to whichever of them that they elect to head up their Branch affairs 🙂
“Best of all – they’ve got a tit on Page 3” (Not my joke – ripped from Twitter)
🙂
Agree with Kiwimike and McBoxheid – leave the dirt and lies to the unionists – they have perfected these as their assets by decades of practice. The independence movement, so far, has been different, and despite the whinging unionists is admired far and wide and outwith our shores. Something they can never hope to achieve is affection based on respect. The liars have stalled our movement by their activities – let’s not help their foul, dishonest cause by joining them in the gutter!
As I was a victim of Menzies when I had a shop I am not surprised that distribution anomalies are very apparent.
However most large supermarkets are shambolic in the running of their newspaper departments and rarely do anything at all in the ordering of titles so perhaps we should all ask the manager of these supermarkets to get the National in.
The local petrol station here got 33 copies and has no idea why. I will check our two supermarkets. I suspect they will have none.
Muscleguy,
Thanks for that. I didn’t drill deeply enough to find it.
Amazing how unnewsworthy this is compared with the rabid and inaccurate reporting of a popular politician being shot in feb’13. I was there at the time and the UK reporting seemed not only inaccurate but eagerly hoping for trouble. Locally, people were angry at the BBC reporting. I could only concur and say that we are used to it in Escosse.
A country of similar size to us, big constitutional change and political awareness. We should know more about it than the hyped islamist v. secularist stuff
@ chalks
Michty me , twitter etc talking p@@@@ surely not ?
I must confess the on line media has to be viewed with an element of sceptisism for sure .
There are some who go on national TV and talk p@@@
Anyway glad you got a copy.
Enjoy.
call me dave
Hope you’re feeling better.
Nana Smith says:
24 November, 2014 at 10:18 am
@McBoxheid
http://subscriber.pagesuite-professional.co.uk/subscribe.aspx?source=4&eid=e46c8b3a-57a1-44e2-8155-6c9c3d4b4f90
Thanks Nana, I got a copy and enjoying it at the moment.
@Cearc:
‘Escosse’ is fine but very dated. The modern name is ‘Écosse’, with a capital ‘é’.
I think a good Scottish-centric paper has to adopt a system akin to matryoshka: Scotland first, then UK, the Europe, then maybe the US, then the rest of the world, then why not the Universe.
I don’t give a hoot about sports, especially football, a sport rotten by money.
As a scientific journalist myself, I was a bit disappointed not to see any science or technology-dedicated page. But that may come with time. Maybe I’ll write to them about that, naturally emphasizing the good job they did.
It’s so long since I turned the pages of a newspaper – it felt kind of funny to do so with the ‘National’ – I’ll keep supporting it, but methinks, for me anyway, I’m lost to the printed variety of the species.
I wish them the very best of luck to prosper and flourish.
Barontorc,
So get the digital edition.
I also find that. On the couple of occassions that I have been within a few miles of a shop on a sunday I have bought SH, it sits around for weeks barely read.
Hi gerry parker.
Check out ‘off-topic’ re Wings next Sunday in Dundee.
You can see the actual online poster here:-
https://sites.google.com/site/webgaffer/home/uploaded-pics-page-7/StAndrewsDay-Gathering.jpg
‘The National’ – Dundee.
Seagate convenience store only got two copies and sold them.
I managed to get the last two copies in the Castle Street newsagent.
The Courier actually has a story about the launch!
http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/new-paper-flies-independence-flag-1.699947
I’ll pop by and see you all then, planning to go through on my bus pass. looking forward to a good day.
🙂
“You’re trying to put words in our mouths”
Well, they’re empty after all, just like their heads
My father was a Labour councillor locally, he would be spinning in his grave listening to these 3 incompetent amateurs wriggling on the hook of a simple question. They are visibly afraid to say anything that might make them look like SNP sympathisers. They have less then zero chance of resurrecting Scottish Labour. In a way I feel sorry for the voters who are being asked to vote for one of these three.
@Call me Dave
Good to see you back CmD. Was concerned we hadn’t seen you online for a while. I was missing your vigilance for interesting links – especially the footie ones for Scotland games 😀
Nana Smith
Thanks