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Wings Over Scotland


Dead man’s swerve

Posted on March 17, 2014 by

Here’s the footage of Alistair Darling’s interview in Glasgow with James Naughtie a few days ago. If you want to spend 35 minutes of your life watching a man totally dodge every question asked of him, it’s your lucky day.

Naughtie does ask a few decent ones, particularly on the currency and EU, but Darling just waffles his way past all of them (a particular trick we’ve noticed among Labour politicians lately is saying “Let me just say this and then I’ll answer your question”, whereupon they trot out some boilerplate and then don’t answer the question), and Naughtie doesn’t ever press him any further.

So, y’know, saving the £20 was probably the smart call.

If you want to see the audience Q&A (sadly not so professionally recorded) we’ve already posted it here, and you can also see the corresponding Naughtie interview with Alex Salmond from a few weeks ago here.

One trivial but enlightening thing did leap out at us in passing. Throughout the interview Darling refers to the First Minister as “Salmond”. It’s a disrespectful form of address when done in person, and we can’t immediately bring to mind an instance of the FM referring in speech to “Darling” or “Cameron” without either their first name or “Mr”.

It’s a small detail, but we think it reveals a lot.

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215 to “Dead man’s swerve”

  1. Brotyboy says:

    Your last point is well made, Rev.

    It reminds me of the televised debates prior to the last Westminster Election, when David Cameron, even when addressing him directly, couldn’t bring himself to call Gordon Brown anything other than ‘Gordon Brown’, as to call him Gordon would be too chummy and to call him Mr Brown would appear too deferential.

    No such consideration from Darling.

  2. Tony Little says:

    Rev, on the “Salmond” issue, I actually don’t think it is a small thing. I actually think it is a practiced and planned show of disrespect which I think other No politicians also use. It is an attempt to subliminally impact in the mind of the listener that some how and in some way the First Minister of Scotland is inferior to them. And by inference his [AS] views are of less value.

    It is a definite Propaganda technique and should be constantly exposed for what it is. Of course, that means someone (other than your good self) needs to do so. I see no volunteers in the MSM.

    As for the “conversation” itself, I regret to tell you that I could not bring myself to listen to it. Both of these “gentlemen” fill me with a mild attack of revulsion. [You have my admiration and sympathy for having to review this tripe on a daily basis – thank you]

  3. Bugger (the Panda) says:

    Think, Hitler, Stalin Mugabe.

    very definite

  4. Macart says:

    Yeah well, we can do lack of respect too. I used to make a point of adding post or title before opposition representatives names when posting, but its getting a little wearying not seeing pro yes representatives receive the same consideration.

    I reckon they’ve earned a total lack of respect.

  5. Dave McEwan Hill says:

    Whenever I hear somebody say “I don’t like that Alex Salmond” I now respond “Have you ever heard him say a bad word about anybody” and that usually floors them.

    The very deliberate demonisation of AS has to be exposed as that exactly and the tables will turn very quickly if it is exposed as a plot in the public mind

  6. heedtracker says:

    Flipper’s currency waffle 8 minutes in, is gibberish. He plonks any old words together, “EU, currency, union, union political, doesn’t work, legal straitjacket” I mean what the hell is a “legal straitjacket” anyway? Flipper’s a very experienced Westminster ligger simply inventing stuff as he goes along, in public and beyond any reproach from that other ligger on stage.

  7. Geoff Huijer says:

    I don’t think the lack of ‘Mr’ is a small detail.

    Like others above I tink it is a deliberate attempt
    to undermine Alex Salmond.

    However, I do think this lack of respect says more
    about those saying ‘Salmond’ than it does about a lot
    of their so-called arguments.

  8. MD says:

    Chomsky has written about the use of surnames vs. titles as a propaganda technique when describing enemies vs. friends.

    It’s part of de-humanising them to make them easier to attack. It’s not necessarily planned.

  9. Vestas says:

    Ah Alistair ermine means that much now does it?

    Shame.

  10. Peter A Bell says:

    Alistair Darling would not be permitted to refer to the First Minister thus in the Scottish Parliament. But such is his seething hatred of the man that he simply cannot bring himself to show anything resembling respect.

    Let us note, however, that Darling is not merely disrespecting Alex Salmond. He is also exhibiting his contempt for the office of First Minister. And that belongs, not to Mr Salmond, but to the people of Scotland.

  11. Andrew Morton says:

    @Macart

    I make a point of giving BT people their proper names and titles. It’s important to retain the moral high ground. That’s why Alex never says a bad word about anybody, why give his enemies cheap ammunition?

  12. schrodingerscat says:

    please help crowd fund this musical for the festival this year

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/finnanderson/get-alba-a-scottish-musical-to-the-edinburgh-fring

  13. annie says:

    Alistair Darling has been a very angry man going back to 2008 when the financial crisis started he cannot possibly keep this level of anger/contempt going for so long without serious damage to his mental or physical health.

  14. schrodingerscat says:

    disappointed to hear the “two scottish banks” myth go unchallenged by anyone. just proves how bereft of any real arguments of any kind

  15. Muscleguy says:

    I think it also partly shows how much they fear him. After all why dignify someone unimportant with this much consistent disrespect?

    Captain Darling knows he would be taken apart by him in a debate. Note thought that whenever the topic of David Cameron debating Alex Salmond comes up, Mr Cameron volunteers Capt Darling in his stead? I bet Capt Darling doesnae appreciate that.

  16. Mutters says:

    How about we come up with a suitably disrespectful nickname, as Private Eye does magnificently with such people as Piers “Morgan” Moron and Peter “Mentally” Hill?

    Any ideas? I’ll start us off with Alistair “Kiss Me” Darling….

  17. I managed 6:45. Do I get a medal?

  18. desimond says:

    A Dead man above, and a resurrection below..gaun yirself Venice!

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26604044

  19. Jamie Arriere says:

    He just seemed constantly scunnered with the length of the campaign – how many times did he say “I’ve been doing this for two-and-a-half years”?

    He’s fed up because the longer the campaign, the more people see how little he has to say, and how small his vision is for Scotland’s future.

    Even if I did have an open mind on independence (which I have on most things), I could not be inspired to follow the line of this dismal middle-manager.

  20. Clootie says:

    Must be a mistake during the cut and paste – this is the answers he was giving last year?

    6:45 seems a winning time – it beat me.

  21. How about we come up with a suitably disrespectful nickname, as Private Eye does magnificently with such people as Piers “Morgan” Moron and Peter “Mentally” Hill?

    We are way ahead of you with “”Chairchoob Ian Davidson, Blare McDougall, Wee Wullie Rennie, U-KOK head A. Darling et al…

  22. Grouse Beater says:

    If you listening carefully to Darling’s argument it rests almost entirely on Scotland being free to “trade with the rest of the UK.”

    Not only does he make the best case for a currency union, but also he confirms that his masters wish the greatest element of trade to remain with England. In so doing he implies if Scotland is free to do otherwise England will frustrate its trade routes.

    It’s another euphemism for control of a neighbour state.

    Exactly what England’s attitude was, and what it actually did, to undermine the Darien Scheme and its investors.

    Darling confirms by argument his masters will suppress Scotland’s prosperity. Not once does he deny it.

  23. joe kane says:

    I noticed Andrew Marr’s Sunday interview with the First Minister had a slightly discombobulating time delay between the question and answer responses. Very odd. It made the FM seem as if he was talking from the International Space Station rather than from somewhere in the UK.

    It reminded me of the weird recording of Nicola Sturgeon’s responses during an interview at BBC Pacific Quay, which I’d never came across any politician being subjected to before.

  24. Les Wilson says:

    Poor interview by McNaughty, hardly challenged Darling, may as well have been a Broadcast for the Better together mob.

  25. Indion says:

    “Nobody’s Darling”

  26. Murray McCallum says:

    In an independent Scotland and in the spirit of minimising the risk of financial crises, I would hope Alistair Darling would have the decency to put his hand up and be the first to admit – I know nothing of financial oversight and/or regulation.

    Listening to Alistair, you can almost feel your life force fade.

  27. The Man in the Jar says:

    @Bugger (The Panda)

    “Think, Hitler, Stalin Mugabe.”

    You omitted the worst of the bunch. “Thatcher” que lightning bolt and thunder.

  28. Macart says:

    @Andrew Morton

    You are of course quite right, but its becoming heavy going to give respect to the opposition and receive none in return. Worse, to receive nothing but lies and misrepresentation. It makes you woder just what their attitude will be toward the electorate in the event of a YES vote?

    Will it be a case of we didnae really mean it? Its just politics? Nothing personal pal? I’m fairly certain of what their attitude would be in the event of a NO vote and it would have nothing to do with reconciliation or being better together.

  29. Wee Jonny says:

    I went to the Alex Salmond interview and liked the relaxed atmosphere with Alex and Jim sharing a bottle o vino. They seemed to be a couple o mates catching up. The following day though and Jim had his BBC hat on, pissing on anything to do with independence. Couldnay believe the two facedness of it. I was gona get a ticket for “Come On Ali” but I don’t have the intelligence to sit there and listen to his pish and woulda jumped up and shouted something stupid like “fukincuntpish” and get chucked oot. It still bothers me that a seemingly intelligent people believe anything “Come On Ali” or Broonee have to say as they were slated a wee while ago for being useless cun*s.

  30. Blair paterson says:

    Is Alastair darling English I sure he was born in London if I am right it is anotherenglishman telling us what todo

  31. Andy-B says:

    I think I’ll pass on the 35 minutes, thank you, Mr Darling’s monotonous drone, is akin to standing next to a power station or pylon, and listening to the buzz.

    As for his evasive tactics to answering questions, he’d give Houdini a run for his money,in getting out of things.

    Mr Salmond is head and shoulders above this political minion.

  32. Muscleguy says:

    @Wee Jonny

    It still bothers me that a seemingly intelligent people believe anything “Come On Ali” or Broonee have to say

    It’s a combination of tribalism come Labour being the default ‘establishment’ here in Scotland and ‘better the de’il ye ken’ type thinking.

    Those types who see the SNP govt in Holyrood as some temporary aberration are going to have their worldviews assaulted in the coming elections. Be prepared for some pretty annoyed and bewildered establishment types in the coming months and years.

    As an intelligent scientific person I have bumped into any number of such people, the sort who have risen way beyond their competence by playing politics. Those types are always twitchy when the ‘enemy’ is in power. By and large the SNP have been good and left such Labour people alone. But that can’t last forever.

    See for eg the management at Pacific Quay who are exemplars of the type. In iScotland under an SNP government they are going to be surplus to requirements in the SBS. Why else are they making of themselves a laughing stock by running an overt propaganda outfit?

  33. Jamie Arriere says:

    OT – update from Douglas Fraser re the Standard & Poor’s ‘highest economic assessment’ statement from last week – economic assessment is only one of five criteria determining the sovereign credit rating – the others being governance, external liquidity, fiscal & monetary.

    Fair dos for finally responding to it, pity he didn’t mention this when the report came out, but I suspect that he (like me) didn’t know either. However, he is paid to know stuff like that.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26602997

  34. Muscleguy says:

    Note too that over time if the SNP dominance continues you will get those who see the SNP as the route to career progression and they will gradually replace the Labour people. We saw it with those who latched onto the New Labour project in the ’90s.

    Eventually people will get suitably cynical about the SNP but I expect with the paucity of talent and the doing Scotland down mentality of the unionist parties an effective opposition will take some time to assemble. This too has it’s dangers in a democracy. Not that I impute base motives to the SNP but absolute power still corrupts absolutely.

    Hopefully Alex Salmond will retire before all that comes down on them and I don’t see Nicola Sturgeon falling into that trap unwittingly.

  35. Findlay Farquaharson says:

    the man is a dirty lying rat, i cant be the only one with this opinion. apologies to rats.

  36. Muscleguy says:

    @Jamie Arriere
    The update smacks of being caught not doing your homework properly and rushing home to do it after a dressing down.

    I expect now they will say ‘we dealt with that’ and use that fact as a reason not to address the main points about bias.

  37. Jim T says:

    @joe kane 5:17

    Satellite link delay of approx 250ms per satellite, plus a bit of ground system processing time, then maybe a second satellite bounce through (sometimes happens, even on short hops) and, hey presto, you have about a second’s delay.

    if you really want a bit more info (you’re probably nodding off in your soup already) then good ol’ wikipedia has some guff on it here:

    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit

    (trimmed off the http thingy Rev, do I get Brownie points?)

  38. gerry parker says:

    @ndion,
    Can’t be “Nobody’s Darling”

    Nobody’s Perfect.

    🙂

  39. Croompenstein says:

    I picked up on that a wee while ago when Flipper referred to FM as Salmond. I do think folk will pick up on this, Flipper may think it’s smart to denigrate your opponent but people will see through him for what he is..a filthy self serving full of his own importance fucker

  40. Red Squirrel says:

    The theme from BT is a variation on “what I’m saying is…” waffle waffle waffle; “Let me just say…” waffle waffle waffle.

    That’s because they have nothing to say – no positives, only fears and smears; no ideas only rubbishing everyone else’s; you can’t rather than you can.

    That’s why they’re going to lose if our country has any sense left at all.

    The world’s changing – we have a chance to be ahead of the game for once.

  41. msean says:

    I always try to put in the persons title or first name because it costs nothing to be polite,unless you have no positive arguement and have to rely on personal denunciation. The tactics being used are almost soviet in style.

  42. cynicalHighlander says:

    He’s in a continuous loop saying nothing at all other than fear. Why did he leave the stage so quickly?

  43. cynicalHighlander says:

    He’s in a continuous loop saying nothing at all other than fear. Why did he leave the stage so quickly?

  44. cynicalHighlander says:

    please delete duplicate post.

  45. Another Union Dividend says:

    A non political organisation within Alistair Darling’s constituency is trying to hold a referendum debate in the summer and asked Alistair Darling and the local MSP to debate for No and Yes but the opposition back bencher for Edinburgh West has declined saying he was “not available” for the dates (plural) suggested. He didn’t offer any suitable alternative.

    Obviously debating with a mere Scottish MSP is beneath his dignity.

  46. liz says:

    @Muscleguy – I think that’s why we need a written constitution so that any politician can be held to account and should not be able to influence the media.

    Also if we get an SBC it should be mandantory for there to be a mix of political opinion of the employees so that the situation at BBC Scotland is never allowed to happen again.

    One of the things which have become apparent since the indy campaign started is how the majority of us were completely unaware at how Lab, Scottish branch had taken over the MSM in Scotland.

  47. galamcennalath says:

    Titles ….. BT are keen on military language …. Obergruppenführer Osborne ?

  48. James123 says:

    @Joe Kane
    I noticed Andrew Marr’s Sunday interview with the First Minister had a slightly discombobulating time delay between the question and answer responses.

    I found this really bizarre as well, does anyone know what the reason was for the incredibly long delay? I watched an interview today where a BBC presenter was speaking to someone in Washington DC and the delay wasn’t anything near as long. Yesterday’s interview was incredibly awkward with both participants constantly talking over each other. I suspect it was a bit of skull duggery by the BBC, trying to put AS off his stride as they know he will normally run rings around them.

  49. Croompenstein says:

    @Another Union Dividend – naw the fucker probably wants paid or he’ll have other folk to rob on those dates, this deadbeat must be put on the spot in live debate by Dennis Canavan or oor Nicola because he will get so angry his head will explode

  50. theycan'tbeserious says:

    “Thatchers Darling” or “Silver Darling” or “We’re doomed Darling” or “Move over Darlin'”

  51. Croompenstein says:

    @James123 – agreed, I watched a program on Channel 4 last night where they were talking live to astronauts on the space station and it wasn’t as bad as BBC, don’t know what that was all about but Marr made a complete cunt of himself so the more people who see it the better.

  52. Robert Peffers says:

    Please Do Not treat “The Right Honourable Mr. Alistair Darling MP” as The Right Honouable Mr Alistair Darling MP treats our First Minister. If you really want to get right up his nose, do as I rather pointedly have just done here. Refer to the total numptite very pointedly as “The Right Honourable Mr. Alistair Darling. M.P.”. Here’s a wee true story for you. I had an old English supervisor at one time who often sneeringly refered to my labourer as, “Hey! You! Jock!”. The labourer then began to, very pointedly, refer to the supervisor as, “A fine old English Gentleman”. After some time of this treatment the supervisor, (obviously long fuming below the surface), burst out with this classic, “When you call me, ‘A fine old English Gentleman’, like that, you really mean, “You Rotten old English Bastard”, and he stormed of in a hissy fit. Thing was he never ever again called any Scot, “Jock”, again.

  53. Taranaich says:

    @Tony Little: Rev, on the “Salmond” issue, I actually don’t think it is a small thing. I actually think it is a practiced and planned show of disrespect which I think other No politicians also use. It is an attempt to subliminally impact in the mind of the listener that some how and in some way the First Minister of Scotland is inferior to them. And by inference his [AS] views are of less value.

    Absolutely. Anyone who’s read a book, or watched a film or show set in a boy’s school pre-comprehensive will note that all the students are referred to by their surname, while the teachers get the honourific “Mister” or “Sir.” By refusing to use the honourific, these people are subtly recalling that dynamic: it’s “Bunter” for Billy, but “Mr. Quelch” for his schoolmaster; “Brown” for Tom, but “Mr. Lampard” for the teacher. This “good old school days” facet of culture permeates and lasts. So what do you think calling the First Minister only by his last name suggests?

    @Muscleguy: Note too that over time if the SNP dominance continues you will get those who see the SNP as the route to career progression and they will gradually replace the Labour people. We saw it with those who latched onto the New Labour project in the ’90s.

    Best way to alleviate that is reduce MSP pay. After all, if we have a socially-just Scotland where poverty is reduced & services allowed to thrive, the rich will barely notice a few percentages being shaved off their pile of money. I notice several members have refused the 11% rise, and some like Mr. Salmond donate a substantial portion of their member’s pay to charity. Then put in place methods to prevent politics being used as a business tactic a la Westminster.

    Not that I impute base motives to the SNP but absolute power still corrupts absolutely.

    But if the absolute power is given to the people…

  54. halftracknat says:

    I find it strangely satisfying to respond to ‘begging’ emails from BT by asking them why Mr Darling always refers to the FM by his surname only. Nice waste of their time, similar to keeping their canvassers chatting on the doorstep and hanging on the phone.

  55. Blair paterson says:

    Why was my post removed it is the first time I have posted I have read wings for over a year now and I never wrote any thing wrong or cheeky please explain

  56. heedtracker says:

    Sitting here in ABZ watching Channel 4 news all about £50 billion HS2, London going as far North as BetterTogether Leeds and isn’t that great Flipper/Naughty. What mugs they must think we are.

  57. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    I can’t find any posts by you in the trash.

  58. ronnie anderson says:

    One Two Three be leary that cunt Darling will steal

    your Peerie, we,ve got the Whip hand & he knows it

    BTs shittin themselves.

  59. Gillean says:

    After watching both interviews, I think you’d find a very startling comparison between the duration afforded by Naughtie to Alex Salmond’s replies and those of Alastair Darling and the number of interuptions to both.

    Rev Stu, get on the statistical case! 😉

  60. Croompenstein says:

    jeezo ronnie there goes Rhymin’ Simon..

  61. Marcia says:

    o/t Business for Scotland had just published details of a business survey they undertook;

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/six-months-past-and-six-months-to-go-independent-opinion-research-published/

    Times have changed when the business community were very hostile to devolution, never mind independence.

  62. morgan mc says:

    What about “Captain Darling of the Treasury” and £20billion of cuts if Labour got in in 2010″. There’s a nice reminder.

  63. kininvie says:

    @Taranaich
    @Muscleguy

    There’s a problem, and it lies in the unholy mating dance of politicians and media, with the politician always in danger of being decapitated and consumed while still pumping away…(I think I’ll drop this metaphor now…)

    I’ve been around the SNP long enough to remember when conference had lots of dissenting speeches and when even the smallest branch could get a motion onto the agenda. But then we got devolution and won power – the media appeared, and with them increasing stage-management and people in suits who behaved as though they were very important…The NATO debate last year restored my faith a bit, but only a bit.

    The point is that we need to find a new model. What it might be I leave to others, but the re-awakening of the political instinct in Scotland cannot be allowed to die away again.

  64. heedtracker says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/2014/mar/17/sir-david-higgins-publishes-his-review-of-hs2-politics-live-blog#start-of-comments is England discussing £50 HS2 Brown/Darling’s legacy. Usual tripe but in the CiF there’s the oddest comments from a John Ruddy, Labour in Scotland activist. Its even odder as Ruddy lives in Montrose but like Darling, these people are often very strange characters eg Mr Ruddy from Montrose thoughts on HS2-

    “I think the argument is that there is more demand for travel to London from the North than there is to the continent.” and “We are saving over 20 minutes in a journey of just over an hour. We also need it to release capacity for more trains – especially freight – on the existing network.” or “Faster more frequent trains to Leeds and London” He’s been busy today but does Scotland even exist between the ears of Lab/Con/Dem BetterTogetherists? Montrose is about 400 miles away from Leeds. Stavangers closer.

  65. ronnie anderson says:

    Croompenstein, Ah thought it wiz time tae clock in fur a wee

    while, an who,s rhymin Simon, is he a poster on Wings arkark ark.

  66. call me dave says:

    Look Skye Walker

    Aye but why the additional part in the article with Mr Osborne and Mr Balls comments thrown in as padding for the BBC case and throwing scorn at Mr Salmond? What have they got to do with it.

    Even when they try and comment impartially they can’t help themselves can they. 🙂

  67. Tamson says:

    @wee jonny:

    as well as the tribalism of Labour, another reason some people still listen to the likes of Darling and Brown is a sort of class issue. The figures are morphed into “elder statesmen” by the British Establishment, because to continually paint them as the dangerous idiots they are would reflect badly on the British Establishment. The logic goes “we, the Powers that Be, let these people become Prime Minister and Chancellor of the greatest country in the world, so actually they’re not all that bad, you know”.

    You see it time and time again. Figures like Ted Heath, Roy Hattersley, Dennis Healey – roundly ridiculed in their time, but constantly referred to for “experienced” commentary in the media. It’s the British Establishment protecting itself.

    On the subject (somewhat OT, sorry) of politicians looking not well – Charles Kennedy certainly isn’t. Never agreed with him on the constitution, but hope the guy’s OK.

  68. ronnie anderson says:

    arkark ark Darling seals his fate.

  69. gavin lessells says:

    O/T
    AYE RIGHT LEAFLETS

    The leaflets are still available at £66/10000.

    Particularly interested in hearing from Yes organisers in Glasgow Area. They are difficult to contact due to apparent problems with data release?! Or so I am told………

    The latest print run will arrive on friday for those who are waiting and I will be in touch tomorrow

    Contact gavinlessells AT yahoo DOT co DOT uk

  70. Stuart Black says:

    Stavanger’s closer.

    *waves* 😉

  71. Bruce Wallace says:

    Blair paterson 7:24 pm

    “Why was my post removed it is the first time I have posted I have read wings for over a year now and I never wrote any thing wrong or cheeky please explain”

    I’ve had similar problem. Before posting refresh the page if you’ve been reading through the posts for a time.

  72. john king says:

    Anybody else get past 6mins 54 seconds?
    that when I started throwing things,
    couldn’t stand any more,

    And just out of curiosity is theRE a single person in outer Mongolia that does not know what currency we will use in an independent Scotland, could some one maybe get them to phone A Darling and tell him, because he appears to be the last man on earth who doesn’t know.

  73. CameronB says:

    Whatever you say about him, Captain D doesn’t seem adverse to the use of clout.

    How Alistair Darling voted on Foreign Policy and Defence

    Voted moderately for use of UK military forces in combat operations overseas.

    Voted strongly against an investigation into the Iraq war.

    Voted very strongly for replacing Trident with a new nuclear weapons system.

    And as a former Labour Chancellor of the Exchequer, it migth surprise you to know that he has;

    Voted moderately against measures to reduce tax avoidance.

    Voted moderately against stronger tax incentives for companies to invest in assets.

    http://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/10153/alistair_darling/edinburgh_south_west/votes#foreign

  74. Blair paterson says:

    Sorry Stuart my mistake I honestly thought my post had been removed I apolagise

  75. heedtracker says:

    @ Stuart Black, “waves” back:-)

  76. Triangular Ears says:

    Anyone notice around the 1.57 mark how he appears to say that his own family would be better off in the union, but quickly corrects himself to say “the country” would be better off?

    He very nearly told the truth by accident!

  77. john king says:

    “I managed 6:45. Do I get a medal?”

    Shirt ower the heed ,lap of honour 6.54 a managed,
    but a nearly burst a blood vessel holdin ma breath, the smell o shite was overwhelming 🙁

  78. ScotFree1320 says:

    Unbelievably the comment section is open on the BBC news story, Scottish Independence: Charles Kennedy calls for No to be positive!

    Now is that a flying pig?!

  79. Stuart Black says:

    @ Stuart Black, “waves” back:-)

    😀

  80. mato21 says:

    Something I haven’t seen mentioned was A.Marr saying to the F.M something about this being Barossa’s view even when he (Marr) was speaking off camera with Barossa

    Has this been airbrushed out?

  81. ronnie anderson says:

    Heidtracker, HS2 is now costing £42bil & 6yrs shaved of the

    time scale as stated by Prof Higgings,Im beging to think its

    a big con,the work will start in the North & here,s me

    thinking there,s two end,s of a rail system ( up road,

    down road )channel tunnel started from both side,s & about

    2″ of laser beam at the centre meeting point.

  82. john king says:

    “Obviously debating with a mere Scottish MSP is beneath his dignity.”

    More likely because he knows he would get his arse handed to him by the SNP tea lady who could probably dismantle him and turn him into a Teasmade 😉

  83. Andrew Morton says:

    Rev.,

    You often comment that we should try to be on our best behaviour on here as many undecideds will be looking in and we don’t want to put them off. Indeed Blair McDougall was tweeting today about this being a nasty little nationalist blog.

    I think the liberal use of swear words, particularly c**t should be discouraged. Can you have posts containing them automatically put into moderation so that the offending expletives can be removed?

  84. CameronB says:

    Rev
    Seconded

  85. Robert Kerr says:

    Yes the C-word is deeply offensive.

    Many company email systems would trap any email containing it and sender would face discipline.

  86. ronnie anderson says:

    John King 8.36, invest in big boy nappy,s, or contact the social work dept for a supply, there,s a long long way to go
    .

  87. heedtracker says:

    @ ronnie anderson, every UKOK capital project has overrun its initial estimate from the Chunnel, the London 2012 Olympics that Millenium Dome, most big MOD spends but it doesn’t detract from the fact that Scotland should be investing Scottish money in Scotland, not England. BetterTogether know this. Try driving round England and enjoy fast modern dualed or motorway travel between every single English toon and city. Then drive round Scotland.

  88. Oneironaut says:

    Actually feeling quite glad that my failing computer system here can’t handle video playback any more.

    Means I don’t have to spend 35 minutes of my natural lifespan slowly losing the will to live and pondering various increasingly-homicidal thoughts…
    (Though in Darling’s case, that might be more “pesticide” than “homicide”!)

    As for the “Salmond” thinly-veiled-insulting name-shortening thing, BT and their associated flunkies do tend to be a bit on the rude side in general when they see a Yes badge. Like a red rag supposedly does to a bull.

    I was at an SSP stall on Saturday near the Wallace Tower in Ayr, with a troop from the local Yes campaign already out there braving the freezing temperatures alongside us.

    I was handing out leaflets a little bit away from the stall and at one point, a couple of BT supporters (badges and all) came along. (I didn’t recognise the badges at first, partly because I was busy mentally calculating if I could afford chips or something else warm on the way home, and partly because I’ve never actually seen a BT supporter openly wearing a badge before. Especially in an area heavily populated by Yes campaign activists at the time!)

    And he came up to me and pointed at the leaflets and said “Can I have one of them to wipe my bum with?” (Sounded quite posh, so the use of the word “bum” left me temporarily unable to think of a suitable comeback due to sorting out an internal conflict between surprise and amusement…)

    Before leaving, they kind of tapped on their BT badges in what I assume was some attempt at mimicking the feral chest pounding action that large apes do to try and intimidate lesser rivals (though this was more comical than anything else, and only slowed my attempts to find a suitable comeback while I tried hard not to laugh).

    Especially as the guy had obviously singled me out because I was standing a little bit away from everyone else and that way they supposedly had numerical superiority (since there was two of them and one of me. Though, looking at these two, maybe if they’d brought another dozen or so it would have been fairer!)

    Actually felt like quite a surreal experience.
    Even now, I wonder if I’d actually passed out from some kind of frostbite-related condition and the whole thing was just a weird feverish dream.
    I mean seeing BT members is like seeing the last Dodo or something. Just a matter of time till they’re all gone…

    Wish I’d gotten a picture of that one to show to future generations to prove I actually saw one once.
    I can imagine it sitting in a museum, alongside one of Darling’s preserved eyebrows floating in a jar!

  89. ronnie anderson says:

    Rite awe you,s nice Winger,s, fess up who,s been abusing

    they BT politicion,s on Twitter,John Mckays on yer case

    Scot Tonight.

  90. bjsalba says:

    I made the mistake of sitting down to watch after eating my evening meal. Bad idea. I didn’t get past the first hurdle (so many unanswered questions). Never watch this stuff on a full stomach.

  91. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Andrew Morton says:
    Blair McDougall was tweeting today about this being a nasty little nationalist blog.

    Blair McDougall wouldn’t mentioning Wings at all if he could manage it.

    The fact that he is resorting to tweeting about Wings shows that BT recognise the power of Wings, and feel the need to try to discredit it.

    Success!

    So everybody just keep doing what everybody has been doing.

    (But easy on the sweary words.)

    🙂

  92. SquareHaggis says:

    What he’s doing with the hands?

    It’s like watching some kind of mechanoid croupier.

    The old 1 for you, 10 for me
    1 for you 20 for me routine.

    Disturbing.

  93. Twenty14 says:

    Agree about the swearing – no complaints about the odd F- word in jest or to emphasise the nasty bile thrown about but think the C- word could put a lot of people off and give others ammunition.

  94. jon esquierdo says:

    The man is a fuckwit.

  95. steven Seagull says:

    Darling is an immoral fkn boy prostitute, a greedy chubby sooker, and spunk dump for his tory maisters. He’s been screwed so often by Cameron/Osborne etc,his arse has got threads on it.Slurping their culo’s for any jizzcack.

    I recommend “RIMMER” as a suitable insulting tag for this gimpoid Quisling bastirt!

    Again I recommend flashmobs ootside thur big fk aff hooses. Photies/ videos uploaded. Postersl

    They are going to get nastier…So should we.
    Bring a chainsaw tae a knife fight is my policy.

  96. peter says:

    Not for the first time but this morning as I bought my normal papers I was offered a free Daily Record, normally I refuse but I wanted to read more about the Dandies so I took a copy. Two things, even free I could not stomach its content, sped read Torquill’s opinion bit, utter garbage but my main point is this, is this a national promotion offering a free paper and who is funding it?.

  97. MajorBloodnok says:

    heedtracker said that John Ruddy said: “We also need it (HS2) to release capacity for more trains – especially freight – on the existing network.”

    Presumably he’s thinking that those that can’t afford to travel by HS2 can go by cattle truck instead, no doubt to the necessary holding camps and re-education facilities that the rUK will require once austerity really starts to bite.

  98. john king says:

    “They don’t let you sit in the seats while they revolve though. :-(”

    Now that’s a pity, it’d be like Saturday night at the London Palladium (tiller girls)
    jings that’s ma cover blown,
    awe richt am auld so whit? 🙁

  99. john king says:

    And the prize for the most expletives in a post goes to………..Steven Seagull for his “Darling is an immoral fkn prostitute”

  100. Gordon E says:

    Just a quick comment about the increasing amount of swear words being used. It really doesn’t help the argument at all, I have been spreading the word about Wings but would have to think twice about recommending it to some people if the swearing continues. It is the undecideds that need to be persuaded and a rational and polite reply to any argument is essential.

  101. ronnie anderson says:

    @Calcagus MacAndrews
    @Andrew Morton

    Blair McDougall,s no feelin the lurve fae the BT mob,& the

    high esteem the REV,s held in by all the people on this site

    haw Rev step back fae the edge of the plinth,we dont want you

    tae faw aff. I,ll moderate ma wording fae now on guy,s.

  102. Garry Henderson says:

    @Kinivie

    ‘The point is that we need to find a new model. What it might be I leave to others, but the re-awakening of the political instinct in Scotland cannot be allowed to die away again.’

    Excellent point, I think this is imperative!

  103. john king says:

    “I can imagine it sitting in a museum, alongside one of Darling’s preserved eyebrows floating in a jar!”

    Now that would be cruel, they should be released back into the wild to allow them to migrate back to their ancestral Mexican forest they originated from!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l42ca94m-bE

  104. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Tourettes for Independence thought it found a home here… I’ll let the guys know the new rules, but they’ll probably tell me to fekkoff..:-(

  105. gillie says:

    Alistair Darling is a much diminished figure.

  106. Twenty14 says:

    Some people might think some people are trying to give the site a bad name

  107. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Gillie

    He is the Britnat equivalent of Lord Haw Haw, but with much less gravitas.

  108. ronnie anderson says:

    @John King, noo you should know by now we,re a weil informed

    lot on here,being auld yer memory fade,s, how in the name o

    the wee manny kin you confuse a Butterfly wie Darlings

    eyebrow,s,lol wan auld git tae anither auld git, we,re a

    rite pair of Jordan,s, how that for sweary word avoidance.

  109. Kirsty says:

    I agree with most of the posters on here about the way First Minister Salmond is referred to by many unionists in clearly derogatory terms. Although, I’ve also seen a lot of supposedly pro-independentists calling him “Wee Eck” and the like, which I also dislike as it reads like a pejorative to me. But each to their own, I suppose.

    With regards to swearing and, in particular, the c-word. I, actually, like the fact that the Rev pretty much lets people say what they like. I stopped commenting on NNS because of their over-zealous moderation. The overwhelming majority of people who comment on here seem more than capable of self-moderation.

    There are, thankfully, a range of opinions on here and if an “undecided” is going to be put off by the odd poster who uses fruity language among the vast swathe of people who don’t, and who leave wonderful, intelligent and informative comments, then, they’re probably not really worth bothering about as I doubt they were really undecided to begin with. Just my tuppence worth but I’d be sorry to see the Rev start to use a more draconian moderation policy as it would have an inhibitive effect on debate.

  110. Clydebuilt says:

    O/T Read over on Derek Bateman’s blog that the BBC are to end Ken MacDonald’s Sunday morning Headlines prog. BUT that Douglas Fraser’s Buisness slot is to continue. As usual oor Derek sees no bias in this decision. Just that the management are out of touch with what the public want.
    Got to hand it to him, he can turn out an original line.

  111. kendomacaroonbar says:

    well said Kirsty.

  112. call me dave says:

    john king

    Well that’s what seagulls do..shit! I don’t have time for AD either but geez, my mother could be reading this.

    Look Skye Walker

    Thanks for the link. Interesting how they are going to eject our MP’s in 2016. Only yesterday we were all discussing this and were looking forward to our Mp’s marching out the HoC and having a great train ride celebration back over the border.

    Funny old world looking through the telescope from the other end 🙂

  113. Paula Rose says:

    So is that L**d Darling or E**l darling or B*****t Darling?

  114. ronnie anderson says:

    @kendomacaroonbar, dont you fekin dey that again tourettes, ah jist shit n pished ma nappy, an broke the sweary word rule
    ya #=.,>.

  115. MajorBloodnok says:

    gillie says: Alistair Darling is a much diminished figure.

    That’s what she said.

  116. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Ronnie

    We’re going to need a bigger swear jar ! piss fart bum

  117. The Rough Bounds says:

    Alex Salmond knows exactly what he is doing regarding showing respect. In the Scottish election, 2007, Mr. Salmond and Mr. Jack McConnell along with other Party leaders were being quizzed on live TV.

    ”Mr. McConnell, in your opinion would Mr. Salmond make a good First Minister?”
    J.M. ”No, because…blah, blah, blah.”

    ”Mr. Salmond, in your opinion would Mr. McConnell make a good First Minister?”
    A.S. ”Of course he would…”

    Jack McConnell’s face was a picture. And I am convinced that that magnanimous reply of Alex Salmond’s was the very moment that the tide turned in Scotland’s favour.

    It is because I respect Mr. Salmond that I never refer to him as ‘Eck’ when speaking to others, and I certainly don’t let them off with them calling him ‘Salmond’.

  118. Alan Mackintosh says:

    Aye, mouthing off sweary words in a rant without adding anything positive to the conversation is a bit pointless. As others have noted it is not going to help any DK who are lurking or recently arrived. If its that sort of commentary you are looking for you’ll fit in over at BT

  119. ronnie anderson says:

    @ well said Kirsty, we need a sence of humour to get through

    awe the manure we hear & read.

  120. scottish_skier says:

    Kirsty: I, actually, like the fact that the Rev pretty much lets people say what they like.

    ^1

  121. Alan Mackintosh says:

    @ Kendo, btw, thankyou for the wings stickers. They are spread out through Inverness for all to see.

    With regards to Flipper, may I paraphrase your comment, and amend it to…

    LORD NAW NAW

  122. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Murphy on STV now… desperate stuff.

  123. rab_the_doubter says:

    Jim Murphy,

    What an absolute disgrace he is.

  124. HandandShrimp says:

    Back from a Yes meeting, first in the town I think. Slight misjudgement in the room booked. It could at a pinch I guess hold 70 and there was over a 100 in there. Standing room only by the time we got in. My personal freshness was a wee bit compromised. Feck it was hot!

    Annabelle Ewing spoke well, Ivan covered the numbers and communicated well ,Patrick covered the social aspirations. A good sense of urgency amongst the crowd which I’m guessing was pretty much all Yes supporters. People wanting ammo and information.

    We left about 9 and people were still asking questions. We talked about upping the game a bit and as we were about to part to go our separate ways we realised we were staring at a fecking huge Yes poster on the main billboard in the town. I’m pretty sure that wasn’t there yesterday. I take it the stories about buying billboard space were true then.

  125. gordoz says:

    Jim Murphy talks shite on STV now ! (Sorry thats not news)
    What is this utter pish he is talking – refused to debate with SNP (a pattern beginning to appear with BT)

    Another Yesterdays man more iterested in being bitter about the SNP than doing anything for those who need help the most. Shameful what has happened to Labour, Westminster Jim’s more interested in show boating with Trident than helping the poor.

    What a puddin’

  126. kininvie says:

    @kendo

    A sweary jar’s not a bad idea…..Anyone unable to control their natural instincts pays the penalty of donating to latest indy crowd-funding cause?

    £20 for a c***, £10 for a f***, with what I believe Osborne calls an ‘escalator’ for multiple use.

    Could leave one or two WoSsers with fairly empty pockets 🙂

  127. ronnie anderson says:

    Jim Murphy declined to inerview with Bob Doris, but talks to John McKay,Talkin tough big Jim, tae you meet somebody who can answer your lies, baa baa

  128. Fiona says:

    @about 6 mins in Mr Darling says that the UK was able to “do something about” RBS but that Ireland and Iceland were in a similar position and both went bust. What a liar!

    Ireland was not in a similar position because it does not have a sovereign currency

    Iceland did not “go bust”, because it does have a sovereign currency

    I could not listen past this point.

  129. kendomacaroonbar says:

    @Kininvie

    Crap and Fart are two words that I rarely use, but comment duly noted and I’ll henceforth pledge to change my ways.

  130. rab_the_doubter says:

    So Jim Murphy refused to debate, and now the home office have refused to discuss asylum on Scotland Tonight. Wow, these Westminster dudes really respect Scotland.

  131. HandandShrimp says:

    Jim has a tendency to get a little moist when talking about aircraft carriers or things that go bang. A trait I find a little disturbing.

  132. gillie says:

    Jim Murphy seeing his future disappear before his own eyes.

  133. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Jim is out of a job come independence, he protests too much methinks.

  134. ronnie anderson says:

    @Kininvie, thats it your gone to far £20 £10, am gitting the

    sign alphabet oot.

  135. K1 says:

    Pure comedy gold, the run of comments related to swearing. From Andrew’s balanced suggestion about the use of the ‘c’ word, seconded soberly by Cameron, thirded by Robert, followed shortly by ronnie’s interjection about scotland tonight’s subject on poor bt’ers gettin’ a hard time on twitter by nice wingers. Then a final agreement by twenty14 on the merits of best conduct…followed immediately by the exquisite ‘the man is a fuckwit’ from Jon…and then the pièce de résistance of insults follows from steven seagull…

    ‘Darling is an immoral fkn boy prostitute, a greedy chubby sooker…’

    You could not make this up…I love this site! Everyone has a voice.

  136. Midgehunter says:

    Some sensible comments about cutting down the swearing (which I agree with) and then straight away Jon Esquirdo and Stevan Seagull turn up with comments full of brain dead expletives.

    Strange how that happens aint it…? Mmmmm

  137. call me dave says:

    HandandShrimp

    Too much information 🙂

    Mr Murphy has had a busy day on TV early morning and lunchtime as well as tonight + speech in Glasgow. Pity he has so little to contribute Scotland’s future.

    Working hard to keep his profile high. Also Labour conference this weekend to support Ms Lamont..?

  138. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Remember that if you put a few quid in Johann Lamont’s favourite swear-box you can use as many c- and f- words as you like that day.

    http://www.indiegogo.com/projects/yes-pollok-campaign-base

  139. kendomacaroonbar says:

    Leslie Riddoch, way to go Lassie ! BBC 2 now

  140. mr thms says:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-26602997

    UPDATE 17 MARCH

    On the Standard & Poor’s report into Scotland’s potential credit rating, much has been made of one sentence saying that Scotland would qualify for “our highest economic assessment”.

    This has been interpreted by some as meaning Scotland would have a AAA credit rating. It was quoted by Alex Salmond at First Minister’s Questions last week.

    And the convener of Holyrood’s economy committee wanted to know, when questioning senior BBC journalists last week, why this particular sentence was not reported by the BBC.

    So to clarify, the “economic assessment” by Standard & Poor’s is one of five assessments. To quote its own guidance:

    “The five factors that form the foundation of our sovereign credit analysis are:

    “Institutional and governance effectiveness and security risks, reflected in the institutional and governance effectiveness score
    “Economic structure and growth prospects, reflected in the economic score
    “External liquidity and international investment position, reflected in the external score
    “Fiscal performance and flexibility, as well as debt burden, reflected in the fiscal score
    “Monetary flexibility, reflected in the monetary score.”
    It goes on to say that the economic assessment covers “our view of the country’s income levels, growth prospects, and its economic diversity and volatility”.

    So the ratings agency gives high marks to Scotland for those factors. It’s not saying that about the other four factors, except to say that together, they would ensure Scottish sovereign bonds would be “investment grade”. That ranges from BBB- up to AAA.

    Standard & Poor’s hasn’t said, yet, which rating it would give an independent Scotland.

    It did summarise its analysis by saying Scotland’s challenge would be “significant, but not unsurpassable”. And that’s what the BBC reported.

  141. HandandShrimp says:

    “significant, but not unsurpassable”

    Presumably they meant “not insurmountable” not unsurpassable

  142. Alex says:

    Just watched Leslie Riddoch on newsnight Scotland, she was on fire, even the Guardian guy was loving her.

  143. TheItalianJob says:

    Rev et al

    I have a favourite website (newsnowuk/h/Current+Affairs/Scotland/Scottish+Independence) that has all the news articles worldwide on Scottish Independence 24/7.

    I’ve been reading this for the last year and noticed that the past 2 weeks for the first time it’s posting selected articles from wings and newsnetscotland.

    Due to wider audience this exposes wings to I support the moderation being expressed here for our comments ref language etc.

    Just a thought.

  144. ronnie anderson says:

    @mrthms, ah canny wait tae they issue Scottish Goverment

    bond,s, an ah hope there issued post haste,that would be a

    slap in the puss tae the Westminster mob.

  145. FlimFlamMan says:

    Standard and Poor? Would that be one of the big rating agencies that declared fraudulent MBS to be AAA, and downgraded Japan to just above junk, after which Japanese bond yields remained among the lowest anywhere?

    The rating agencies are a significant part of the interlinked problems of finance and mainstream economics. Like Fiona says, currency sovereignty is key.

  146. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    Meanwhile back at BT Headquarters the YES Insurgency is beginning to present real challenges …

  147. Arel says:

    Have to assume that Jim Murphy didn’t fancy another mauling after the one he took from the lady on GMS this morning.
    What must the ordinary punter feel about people like him who feel so full of their own importance that they consider debating an important issue on TV is somewhat beneath them.

    Just makes them look arrogant, remote and “feart”.

  148. Iain says:

    You have to remember that Darling, unlike Salmond, does not have a first-rate intellect, and rose in the Labour Party by keeping on good terms with everybody: when it came to selection for ministerial positions, he slotted in as an appointment which wouldn’t ruffle feathers. Had Labour more talent and less internal emnity at the time, he would never have made it to Chancellor.

    He’s never been able to debate: when pressed on an awkward question he waffles, blusters and can hardly control his temper, because he doesn’t have a coherent answer: he just wants you to believe him and shut up. His disrespectful tone of reference to Alex Salmond is evidence of an angry and resentful jealousy.

  149. Flower of Scotland says:

    What a weird Newsnight on BBC ! Lesley Riddoch getting lots of time to speak without interruptions , Gary Robertson behaving himself AND they discussed Alex Salmond – Andrew Marr incident !!!

    What’s going on ! A reasonable discussion on Newsnight ! I am very suspicious !!

  150. Papadox says:

    Newsnight Scotland

    Lesley Riddoch excellent, just excellent. 100% yer some woman!
    Gerry Hassan pretty good no passion. 50% jump gerry
    Alex Massie no comment
    Sevrin Carroll no comment.

    Garry Robertson did what I advised Jim Murphy to do after GMS this AM.

    Keep your mouth shut, keep your head down and look for new opertunities.

  151. Clootie says:

    If the YES campaign is dead in the water. If a NO victory is so assured.

    Then why do experts carry out reviews on the risk to stability post a GE if Scotland votes YES?

    A lot of energy being expended in London over an issue deemed a lost cause.

    I have some good news for them. “Your efforts are not wasted. Prepare for the demise of the union”

    Can you keep Murphy/Alexander/Darling/Brown (oh crap – I’ll here awe night typing – keep the Scottish MP’s except the SNP)

  152. HandandShrimp says:

    I have noticed that both Ruth Davidson and Charles Kennedy have indicated an interest in continuing in Scottish politics if it is a Yes vote. I wonder who else in the Unionist ranks has an eye to the “what if”

  153. Taranaich says:

    Regarding use of Misters: I’m not a big fan of honourifics for the sake of honourifics, but I do prefer to go for equal treatment. Hence if I refer to Alistair Darling as Mr. Darling, it’s only fair I refer to anyone else as Mr./Mrs/Miss/whatever the case may be, exceptions for academics like Dr or Professor. But generally I would prefer losing the entire deferential system of Mister altogether, and just refer to everyone by their second name in formal contexts.

    Regarding swearing: damned if we do, damned if we don’t. Right now, the Rev. has enough to do without moderating comments for robust language, so I think general guidelines are fine.

    @kininvie: The point is that we need to find a new model. What it might be I leave to others, but the re-awakening of the political instinct in Scotland cannot be allowed to die away again.

    Oh, absolutely. I think the SNP (the FM in particular) realise that this change needs to be gradual. Just as Marx realised you can’t go from capitalist to communist without going through several stages, we won’t get to a radical future Scotland without going through the changes. That’s why we’re still making appeals to things like oil industries and being a rich country: climbing the stairs is a much easier way to get there than taking a leap off a trampoline.

    @Oneironaut: And he came up to me and pointed at the leaflets and said “Can I have one of them to wipe my bum with?”

    I knew the UK was making cuts, but I thought toilet paper would be safe for sure!

    *waggles cigar a la Groucho*

  154. Calgacus MacAndrews says:

    @HandandShrimp says:
    I have noticed that both Ruth Davidson and Charles Kennedy have indicated an interest in continuing in Scottish politics if it is a Yes vote. I wonder who else in the Unionist ranks …

    The scramble to back both horses has begun in earnest.

    However there are exactly the sort of politicians we don’t want in the new Scotland.

  155. ronnie anderson says:

    An its a goodnight from me,an if there wiz anither wan o me

    it would be a goodnight fae him tae.Catch you,s awe the morra

    Goodnight all.

  156. ian says:

    Not tonight Darling….I’ve got a headache

  157. dadsarmy says:

    I did try to listen but 4 minutes in and nothing said at all. It’s boring, and he’s boring.

  158. Fergus Green says:

    http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/politics/george-galloway-calls-nicola-sturgeon-thatcher-in-a-kilt-1.273923

    George Galloway has described Nicola Sturgeon as ‘Thatcher in a kilt’. Article open for comments.

  159. dennis mclaughlin says:

    I made myself suffer to watch the whole tortuous episode..
    noghty did ask a couple of decent questions,but he did not pin the slimy Darling down enough….
    From the body language I get the sense of BT really starting to PANIC…..what else can they throw at YES and make it stick.

  160. john king says:

    “, how in the name o

    the wee manny kin you confuse a Butterfly wie Darlings

    eyebrow”

    Because they begin as caterpillers
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzcRZhaHZ0E

  161. john king says:

    Who are you onyweies?

  162. john king says:

    Murphy (deliberate) doesn’t want to debate with the SNP man on camera, Galloway call Nicola Sturgeon Thatcher in a kilt (what?) anyone else see these people losing touch with reality their behaviour is getting more and more bizarre by the day, I’m just waiting for them all to turn up in parliament wearing thier underpants on their heads and pencils up their noses ,saying wibble wibble.

  163. Arabs for Independence says:

    Listened to GMS clip of interview with Jim Murphy – boy he didna half rise to the bait. I felt he was only just controlling his temper. Good on the lass for her interview skills and determination; other presenters please note.

  164. The scramble to back both horses has begun in earnest.

    However there are exactly the sort of politicians we don’t want in the new Scotland.

    I’d say that’s true with Ruth Davidson, However Charles Kennedy, for all his faults, is probably at least a grade above the Labour, Tory and Liberal ilk at Holyrood. Probably the most affable of that terrible lot at Better Together HQ.

    I also took note of Alistair Darling’s disrespectful tone and did a piece on it at my blog. Someone mentioned Choamsky so I tried to dig up something he said about it, but couldn’t. Having failed to do that, I wrote my own piece on it (the language is not overly complex though. Many of those who read my blog are not native English speakers.)

  165. Alfresco Dent says:

    O/T – Sorry

    I see us Scots are still not trusted to comment non BBC news articles. A pity since they appear to have become Labours Official mouthpiece. Never mind, they don’t receive one penny from me and after independence they’ll be jobless.

  166. Croompenstein says:

    @kininvie – Fair do’s £20 will be winging it’s way to Hamish. I don’t mean to offend anyone it’s cursing for effect like the Big Yin said that’s why you never read “Fuck off..he hinted”. I do tend to think that I am addressing friends but not realising the wider audience and implications I should write..breathe..then submit.

    The situation we find ourselves in is bigger than all of us on both sides and it’s too easy to let the adrenaline take over but I’m just an ordinary Scot who is desperate to end the subjugation of my nation and get a bit heated when my fellow countrymen are complicit in that subjugation.

    I do apologise for any offence and will try to refrain from commenting as this site is too important to let down. As for Andrew Marr I take nothing back.

  167. Linda's Back says:

    BBC GMS at7.40 mentions Business for Scotland business survey saying that only 32% sup[port the SNP’s version of independence and 9% for complete separation but not that only the same number support more powers / no change which means small business is split 50/50.

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/six-months-past-and-six-months-to-go-independent-opinion-research-published/

    Also Douglas Fraser went on about Standard Life (again) but do not mention Standard Life Ireland which manages £7 billion worth of funds despite being in a foreign country and using a separate currency.

  168. Croompenstein says:

    @Steven Seagull – wow

  169. Linda's Back says:

    Business for Scotland demolishes the Labour plans for some extra powers if and when they ever get back to power in Westminster

    http://www.businessforscotland.co.uk/explaining-the-limited-tax-powers-in-the-scotland-act-2012/

  170. Maybolebuddie says:

    Alistair Darling, born Hendon, Middlesex. ENGLISH!!!!!

  171. Rev. Stuart Campbell says:

    “Just a quick comment about the increasing amount of swear words being used.”

    I agree with the general point, but I do wish people would stop seeing single examples of things as a trend.

  172. Malc says:

    Darling having a car crash interview on GMS, Gary Robertson has skewered him many times. Stuttering and rambling. BBC seem to be taking the criticism to heart, that is Murphy yesterday and now Darling today. If these guys listen to their interviews they must be embarrassed, it is no wonder they avoid debate.

  173. Linda's Back says:

    Did anyone keep track of how long Alistair Darling was allowed to speak on GMS this morning compared to Nicola Sturgeon?

    Regard the Lamentable speech later to-day, I liked the comment that Devolution takes longer than Evolution.

  174. bunter says:

    Nice long speech by A.D. on GMS this morning. pity it had to be interrupted, er twice I think, by Gary Robertson.

    Opportunity to press him missed again!

  175. Malc says:

    Linda, that was very good for YES, did you compare the two. Nicola concise well thought out policies while darling was stuttering , rambling and incoherent rubbish. Chalk and cheese.

  176. Brotyboy says:

    O/T

    The Courier today links to a survey by YourviewK on Independence.

  177. Malc says:

    Bunter, No need to interrupt he was hanging himself. The stuttering after he was asked about using trident cash for childcare was brilliant.

  178. Training Day says:

    Anyone else as excited as me and Brian Taylor are over the prospect of Labour deigning to grant us additional powers over something that’s never been used and will never be used? All at some unspecified point in the future too!

    I could swear ‘midst the euphoria of it all.

  179. Davy says:

    Aye it was a rather different interview on Darling than what happened with Nicola, at least Nicola can answer the many interruptions she had to endure, while Darling was allowed to rant to his hearts content.

    But when Darling did get a slightly ackward question put to him, he became a gibbering idiot. The better together campaign are welcome to him and the rest of the numptys angling for their earse to be on a house of lords seat.

    Come the YES vote we will never hear from Darling and his ilk ever again,YEH .

  180. bunter says:

    @ Malc

    Aye I agree with that one, but Robertson could have persevered with it, he would have had it been A.S. or N.S.

    I think that was the umpteenth time on GMS over the last year or two that the Scottish bank bailout scare wasn’t challenged and it just gets a wee bit frustrating grrrrr, but yeah, Darling IS a gibbering idiot!

  181. John H. says:

    @Maybolebuddie 7.51am

    Robert Bonnington Cunningham Grahame – born in London, England. Scottish patriot. 🙂

  182. HandandShrimp says:

    Galloway is like Lord Palmerston of old – liberal abroad deeply conservative at home. George is stuck in the past as far as Scottish politics is concerned which is why he wasn’t so much rejected by the electorate as simply failed to make any connection whatsoever. He wasn’t relevant and continues to be irrelevant. I can’t imagine Darling and Co wanting him on board any more than they want Farage.

    On Lamont’s piece today did I hear right, are the trailed pieces so far just re-hashed old stuff. Gary on GMS said “limited” devolution of Welfare and a bigger + and – of tax on a + and – which at the moment is already pretty much unworkable. If Johann doesn’t have any rabbits to pull out the hat this is kicked into touch before play has started.

  183. The Rough Bounds says:

    @Oneironaut. 9.16. pm

    ‘He came up and pointed at my leaflets and said ”Can I have one of them to wipe my bum with?”

    The perfect answer would have been, ‘Is that what you call your mouth?’

  184. Marcia says:

    I am a bit disappointed with this defection to the Tories.

    https://twitter.com/_Banalbannach/status/445672024544137217/photo/1

  185. SquareHaggis says:

    O/T but inspirational – cheered my day, hopefully yours too

    http://bellacaledonia.org.uk/2014/03/17/journeys-to-yes-libby-mccarthur/

  186. caz-m says:

    Alastair Darling sound more and more like the chemistry teacher out of “Chewin the Fat”.

  187. SquareHaggis says:

    @Marcia 😀

    Double happy

    Thanks 😀

  188. Another Union Dividend says:

    Bunter re the Banks

    Every time Alistair Darling goes on about the Banks remind him that In October 2007, barely three weeks after the Northern Rock £26 billion bail-out, he and the Financial Services Authority signed off their approval for the disastrous RBS takeover of ABN Amro without undertaking any proper due diligence. Incredibly, the FSA overlooked their own rules on capital liquidity thus allowing RBS to do the £49bn ABN Amro deal.

    Fred Goodwin was a financial adviser to Alistair Darling at the time.

    By convention and practice, Banks are bailed out on the basis of where they operate and 80% of RBS losses in the UK were incurred from their City of London operations. (the biggest bail out of any British Bank was Barclays by the US Fed. Does that mean the UK should be ruled from Washington?)

    Accordingly Scotland’s hypothetical liability in 2008 would have been around £6.5 billion out of the total £65 billion government bail-out of the “Scottish Banks” one of which was run from Halifax.

    In the three years leading up to the crisis Scotland’s oil revenues contribution to the UK Treasury was £26.5 billions.

    In any event the forthcoming separation of speculative banking from the traditional High Street banking means that in future after independence governments and taxpayers will no longer be held to ransom by reckless bankers.

  189. heedtracker says:

    BBC in Scotland 8am tv news gave Lamont vote no for devo a pretty good puff. They seem to be easing off on their very heavy hard core vote No stuff with the more subtle, vote no for change but nothing that changy, just enough to make no the sensible option.

    At the very least Pacific Quay vote no brainwashing of Scotland is bit more thoughtful or cunning really. The dude Taylor could have easily have said Lamont’s “giving” you no more than the Scotland Act but not a snowball’s chance in hell from that dude. Maybe this tonal change is merely part of BBC’s overall bettertogether strategy.

  190. Marcia says:

    caz-m

    You and others who have posted Youtube videos will be on the naughty step with our Rev.

    When you put the Youtube link for posting, before you press sent take out the first part of the link so what remains is http://www.youtube and rest of link.

  191. Marcia says:

    Strange that the start of the full youtube link appears despite not even typing it out in my post at 9.29.

  192. caz-m says:

    @Marcia

    A hate teacher’s pets.

  193. heraldnomore says:

    O/T but well worth a read. A fine article from a certain Morag in Yes Clydesdale’ latest AyeMag. In fact read the whole thing, Peter A Bell, and others.

    http://www.yesclydesdale.org/magazine/magazine.html#.UygQcxFF1uQ

  194. bookie from hell says:

    I’m sure the rev. Is ready to hung,drawn,quarter,lamonts devolution package later today,but first

    quote in Scotsman

    http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/top-stories/scottish-independence-devolution-package-outlined-1-3344020

    Lamont said: “This is an important piece of work which we HOPE will answer people’s desire to have a stronger, more accountable Scottish Parliament

    bfh—hope doesn’t seem to be a solid position,to start your case

  195. Robert Peffers says:

    I listened to Rt. Hon. Alistair Darling this morning on radio Scotland. He seems to talk increasingly faster with each broadcast he makes. It’s rather like a severe attack of verbal diarrhoea. Which, just like the real smelly stuff, is completely uncontrollable by the affected person. Alistair is like a machine gun firing indiscriminate bursts of many bullets to achieve the same result as could be achieved by a single well aimed shot. It thus wastes much ammunition, makes lots of useless extraneous noise and, on a bullet by bullet basis, is rather wasteful. Not to mention the gun is an added weight for the user to carry around.

  196. jon esquierdo says:

    I would sincerely like to apologise to all the wings over scotland readers for calling Mr Alastair Darling a Fuckwit. I will refrain from using this language in future and use more appropriate phraseology to express my feelings towards this very articulate orator who captivates the mind of all with his accurate assessments of the Scottish independence debate

  197. Morag says:

    The sweary-words debate is a tricky issue. Some people (and Stu is one of them) have a knack of using highly offensive language in very particularly chosen circumstances to great effect. I’d hate to see that banned. However, some others simply vomit out the sweary-words without any subtlety or wit, and it’s simply offensive. Since they themselves don’t seem to understand the difference I don’t think there’s much hope of educating them.

    What I really dislike are posts which simply spew out offensive comment on opposition spokesmen and leaders and even supporters without any other point to them. The language used need not be particularly x-rated for this to be extremely unpleasant. Recent comments which have done no more but insult the people attending the Conservative conference as incontinent geriatrics for example. I’d nix the lot of them if it was up to me.

    But Stu has far more to do than police the comments threads to that extent. When 90% of the posts here are throughful, intelligent and polite, we can probably stand a few of the knuckle-dragging variety.

    Now if he would just back off a bit on the paragraph breaks nazi delete, that would be good too….

  198. ronnie anderson says:

    @ Lumilumi, yer famous, Goerge Galloway gave you a mention

    in the Courier, at least I think its you from Norway,

    eightsome reels. That manny,s birrleing,its awe that

    associating wie the Arabs ( Whirling Dervish George ).

  199. Desimond says:

    Well said Kirstie!

    Im sure everyone is much more offended when any unionist says “Salmond” than over any use of swear words here.

    Theres no such thing as bad words, only words.

    As I told an English boss once, after he suggested we Scots workers used such ‘harsh language’…

    “Rob..you should remember, in Glasgow the ultimate compliment is to be called “A good C*nt” but the worst slagging is to be called ‘A right C*nt!'”

    We’re aw Jock Tamsons ***** and roll on the Counting House meet up…the swear jar could go higher than the recent fund-raiser!

  200. westie7 says:

    Fergus Green 8:43
    Courier Survey
    One of the first questions is what are the issues that would influence your vote. ALL the options are slanted towards what would influence you to vote NO! Bag-o-shite

  201. Morag says:

    You know, there’s a whole world of SI prefixes there to be used so I’ll just go right to the bottom and claim “devo-atto”. I don’t know any smaller ones.

  202. Morag says:

    Sorry, wrong thread.

  203. george bowling coming up for air says:

    If it’s not a good idea to use “fruity” language in real life to persuade people, then why online?

    Better to get as many as possible on board.

  204. Dick Gaughan says:

    The use of the desciption “offensive” as if it was an absolute fixed value is something which I find mildly offensive. The presumption that what offends one individual, or even a self-selected group of individuals, can therefore be presumed to offend everyone else is, to be polite, the kind of sloppy generalisation for which we rightly criticise Project Fear.

    The problem is that there is no concrete workable definition of what is “swearing” so here’s a suggestion. All those sensitive souls who find themselves offended by robust language could get together and compile a definitive list of words and terms which offend them and then get the Rev to post it for guidance. Then the Rev could employ a small army of moderators to impose the appropriate level of censorship.

    Then we can spend our time debating it all which, given the likely level of disagreement, should keep us occupied until at least the year’s end. That’ll certainly make a positive contribution to the Yes campaign.

    And never mind the “swear box” stuff, this crime is too heinous to be bought off so easily. Offenders should be taken out and shot at dawn, flogged, have the Butcher’s Apron tattoed on their arses, forced to read the collected speeches of Alastair Darling while wearing headphones and having selected highlights of Joanne Lamont’s words of wisdom at FMQs blasted to them in an endless loop with the volume at +11, hanged, drawn and quarted, tarred and feathered and …

    Don’t mention it, you’re welcome.

  205. kendomacaroonbar says:

    o/t on the subject of swearing like a trooper, I recall a story told to me of a Scottish lad during a tough physical training session upon slouching to the floor in exhaustion was asked by the RSM.. “WTF are you doing down there lad ” ?

    He replied ” A’hm f*cked sir..absolutely f*cked’

    Whereupon the RSM replied ” every fekkin fekkers absolutely fekked ya fekker noo get fekkin up and fekkin oan wi it ”

    Is that no jist brill or what ? 🙂

  206. Oneironaut says:

    @The Rough Bounds
    Yeah, I’ve thought of a lot of good comebacks I could have used since then, but, oh well, missed opportunities and all that…
    At least I mentally filed some of them away for future use. So hopefully will be quicker next time. 🙂

    @jon esquierdo
    Your post just reminded me of this. Seems to fit the situation nicely I think 🙂

  207. Colin young says:

    My old mum has just bought an iPad and the first site I bookmarked was WOS as she wants info regards Indy vote too much foul language will put her off.
    Best kept for the pub.

  208. CameronB says:

    Dick Gaughan
    A eloquent comment that completely misses the point. In case you are wondering, I think you might be shocked at how robust my language is in real life.

    This is is public forum open to all comers and all tastes. I try to write as if I have been invited into somebody’s front room. Not wanting to stir things up, but if that means I am in some way week, then I think you know which of your extremities you need to retract from where the sun don’t shine.

    Only saying. 🙂

  209. Dick Gaughan says:

    CameronB says:
    I try to write as if I have been invited into somebody’s front room.

    Good for you. You have my full permission not to swear whenever you feel the urge. I reserve the right to do likewise, or not, as it suits me.

    I’ve been posting in a variety of online forums since 1992 – I still moderate a forum – and I have no intention of altering my style of writing because somebody thinks that somebody else might just perhaps maybe possibly be offended. If someone decides they’re going to change to a “No” vote because they read someone online type “fuck”, they shouldn’t be allowed out without an escort.

    By the way, I rarely use “swear” words myself when writing online but I despise self-appointed censors with considerable venom.

  210. Oneironaut says:

    @Dick Gaughan
    “…forced to read the collected speeches of Alastair Darling while wearing headphones and having selected highlights of Joanne Lamont’s words of wisdom at FMQs blasted to them in an endless loop with the volume at +11…”

    Seriously… That’s just EVIL! :'(

    @CameronB
    If you ever find yourself in my front room, you get a free pass to swear as much as you want.
    (Most people do after tasting my attempt at making coffee for guests!)

  211. CameronB says:

    What do I know? I just try to get along. I wouldn’t want to exclude anyone just because of how they express themselves. At the same time, I would hate to think I have excluded anyone because of the language I have used.

    I have been over this issue with the Rev. and respect his authority (sorry, just re-watched the first four series South Park).

  212. CameronB says:

    Forgot to end my last post with a 🙂 and thank Oneironaut. 🙂



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